Speaker 1: Ah, I'm saying what you're seeing from fort Or, Texas,
Speaker 1: and I play at Merivsta Country Club. This is golf smarter,
Speaker 1: golf smarter. Remember one thousand and thirty.
Speaker 2: You know, I'd read Golf in the Kingdom, I'd read
Speaker 2: Bagger Vance, I'd read Son Golf, and I was kind
Speaker 2: of two minds. You know, half of me is like,
Speaker 2: I get it. I totally get this golf, meaning of life, Buddhism,
Speaker 2: quantum physics deal. And the other half of me was like,
Speaker 2: come on, you know, this is Pat Summerle and Jack
Speaker 2: Nicholas and plaid pants. There's not something like this is
Speaker 2: a big excuse for guys to say, like, oh, it's
Speaker 2: a spiritual experience. I'm going to go play aging holes.
Speaker 2: So I started taking these lessons. I thought I'm going
Speaker 2: to test this. So what I did really was, you know,
Speaker 2: half the book is pretty much me taking non traditional lessons,
Speaker 2: and the other half is me playing golf with various
Speaker 2: kind of spiritually inclined golfers or golfers who are spiritual people.
Speaker 1: Let's take an opportunity to know Josh Karp even more
Speaker 1: before I hand over the microphone to him.
Speaker 2: This is golf Smarter, sharing stories, tips and insights from
Speaker 2: great golf minds to help you lower your score and
Speaker 2: raise your golf IQ. Here's your host, Fred Green.
Speaker 1: Welcome back to the golf that you know what. Welcome
Speaker 1: home to Golf Smarter.
Speaker 2: Josh, thank you for having me Fred home. No, no,
Speaker 2: that's okay. I'm moving into your house. Let's do it.
Speaker 1: Let's do it. That you are, you are definitely in
Speaker 1: the shack, in the county shack.
Speaker 2: Happy to be here.
Speaker 1: And I just want to thank listeners who've been writing
Speaker 1: in saying thank you and goodbye, and you know things,
Speaker 1: like one person said, probably could count on one hand,
Speaker 1: a number of podcasters are still around from two thousand
Speaker 1: and five, right, Probably true. You know, some people have
Speaker 1: said I was a pioneer in golf podcasting. It's like, okay,
Speaker 1: you can do that. I don't I don't mind that.
Speaker 1: Then this email I got from George this morning, Uh,
Speaker 1: sad to learn that Fred is moving on. Although I
Speaker 1: do highly recommend retirement, and.
Speaker 2: You're looking forward to it.
Speaker 1: So oh so much so after this Uh, And he said,
Speaker 1: I believe I've listened to every Golf Smarter podcast episode. Yeah,
Speaker 1: I'm not so sure. George, but that would be amazing
Speaker 1: and can confidently say this is what I loved that
Speaker 1: Nearly everything I've learned that is worth learning I heard
Speaker 1: on your podcast. So it's on your shoulders, my friend.
Speaker 2: Oh my god, that's a bird. That's a lot, that's
Speaker 2: a lot of golf knowledge. Yeah.
Speaker 1: It definitely gets in your thought process about what do
Speaker 1: they want to hear? What are they It's like, yeah,
Speaker 1: I'm ya, No, this was all about me, so I
Speaker 1: don't care. It's like, how do I become a better golfer? Literally?
Speaker 1: This is what how do I get better at golf
Speaker 1: without having to take golf lessons?
Speaker 2: Right? Right?
Speaker 1: It was the whole goal.
Speaker 2: Which is something I think we all can relate to
Speaker 2: whether we're hosting a golf podcast or not.
Speaker 1: Right, right exactly, And let's say that we had we
Speaker 1: had teased the fact that Jim Waldron was going to
Speaker 1: join us for today's conversation, right, But Jim just had
Speaker 1: hip replacement surgery and his recovery is not going as
Speaker 1: he expected. He was patching a lot more and so
Speaker 1: we're going to have to delay that. But since I
Speaker 1: stopped doing interviews back in December, I've been taking lessons
Speaker 1: from Jim, and once a month we get together. I
Speaker 1: send him videos of my swing from two views and
Speaker 1: then he rips me to shreds on him and tells
Speaker 1: me everything I'm doing wrong. And so what we were
Speaker 1: hoping to do is have my next lesson as this
Speaker 1: podcast episode. But when Jim is ready, I'll come back.
Speaker 1: We can do that.
Speaker 2: That I would love you.
Speaker 1: Be fun because Jim was also featured in your book
Speaker 1: Right Straight down the Middle.
Speaker 2: Absolutely, he was one of my absolute and he needs.
Speaker 1: To read this book actually to get to know Josh.
Speaker 2: Thank you. That No, that was that was That was
Speaker 2: a lot. That was a really fun experience, and I
Speaker 2: just I like the people I met were so great,
Speaker 2: and Jim was one of my absolute favorites just his
Speaker 2: both his personality and his kind of story of how
Speaker 2: he became when he became yeah right, yeah, from the
Speaker 2: from the North side of Chicago too, so he uh
Speaker 2: perfect for both of us. I believe he caddied at
Speaker 2: the country club my grandparents belonged to. I remember we
Speaker 2: shared some stories which which which weirdly enough, it's funny,
Speaker 2: my my. It's this kind of place on the north
Speaker 2: side of the city, and there were always like odd
Speaker 2: celebrities would show up, some guy and Martin and Lewis
Speaker 2: used to play there whenever they were in town. Yeah,
Speaker 2: and I remember seeing Dean Martin on Bengo night at
Speaker 2: my grandmother's country club. So anyway, but so I don't
Speaker 2: know if Jim bet Dean Martin on the course, but
Speaker 2: Jim worked there, and Jim is the best.
Speaker 1: He's got stories. Yeah, he's got years and years of stories.
Speaker 1: So yeah, we will get back with Jim when he's
Speaker 1: ready to do that again, and I'd be happy to
Speaker 1: come back.
Speaker 2: And as with you, we will do that for sure.
Speaker 1: But I'll tell you taking lessons with Jim has really
Speaker 1: been radical shift for me. I was my index was
Speaker 1: in the nines and tens for a long time, and
Speaker 1: now this morning I had noticed that I'm thirteen. So
Speaker 1: clearly I'm making changes and looking forward to turning those around,
Speaker 1: especially with my goal of trying to shoot my age
Speaker 1: before I turned seventy six. Right, so you know what
Speaker 1: will happen, We're not sure, but again thanks to the
Speaker 1: ambassadors and the listeners who email me and text me,
Speaker 1: it's just been an amazing thing to build this community
Speaker 1: and grow it and now to be able to hand
Speaker 1: it over to you. They're wonderful people, and that I
Speaker 1: may take you seriously whether we do or not.
Speaker 2: Well, that'll be a first for somebody to take me seriously.
Speaker 1: So I've been right, and you had you had a
Speaker 1: really nice Facebook post talking about the transition, and and
Speaker 1: a lot of your people have said great things to
Speaker 1: you and wishing you the best of luck, as we
Speaker 1: all do.
Speaker 2: Yeah, no, that was you know that, it was really
Speaker 2: I was excited to announce it and and I got,
Speaker 2: you know, a really nice response, and and you know,
Speaker 2: some people, some of my friends, just you know, golf
Speaker 2: people who I've connected with over the years, were nice
Speaker 2: enough to kind of spread the word. And uh, you know, hopefully,
Speaker 2: you know, hopefully we'll you know, they'll they'll they'll bring
Speaker 2: in some some other people to listen, and we'll just
Speaker 2: keep going. I'm looking forward to talking to this great
Speaker 2: audience you built.
Speaker 1: How do we get the book in their hands?
Speaker 2: I am more than willing to uh give out some
Speaker 2: free copies. I mean they can find it on Amber.
Speaker 2: How about I'll ten too.
Speaker 1: You're up to up to you, I mean, they're in
Speaker 1: your house, not mine.
Speaker 2: Yes, I yes, I will. I am happy to provide
Speaker 2: a ton ton copies to listeners so we can do
Speaker 2: a giveaway of some kind. Yeah, so let's do that.
Speaker 1: Okay, how should they reach out to you?
Speaker 2: You know it? Well, right now, I'm gonna they can
Speaker 2: contact me at carp j. This is terrible. I have
Speaker 2: to get a new email, carp J k A r
Speaker 2: p j A two three two three at mac dot
Speaker 2: com or if you're on Facebook, you could just find
Speaker 2: me at Josh KRP on Facebook or on Twitter, and
Speaker 2: and I will the first ten people I will send
Speaker 2: a free cop free autograph copy of the book too.
Speaker 1: That's awesome. Mine's autographed.
Speaker 2: Well that that's n if you could read the autograph
Speaker 2: that My autograph itself is not too impressive, but that's
Speaker 2: why you type it's right exactly.
Speaker 1: Can you imagine writing a book by hand?
Speaker 2: Oh you know, I've i've.
Speaker 1: With or writing it on a Did you write it
Speaker 1: on typewriter? NW?
Speaker 2: You hadss No? No, I mean no, no, I mean
Speaker 2: I wrote it on a laptop. I mean but yeah,
Speaker 2: I am yeah. Thank god my career coincided with the
Speaker 2: existence of laptop, because I have written chapters long hand
Speaker 2: sitting in airport uh, you know, airport's waiting for flights
Speaker 2: and things like that, and then I have to figure
Speaker 2: out what I actually wrote when I look at my handwriting,
Speaker 2: so right right, and anyone who gets a free book
Speaker 2: will will see that when they see my signature.
Speaker 1: So tell me what you have lined up now. I
Speaker 1: know that you had been preparing to do a podcast
Speaker 1: right before we started this transition. You were going to
Speaker 1: do it on your own and start from scratch. But
Speaker 1: let's let's get everybody involved already. Uh, let's talk about
Speaker 1: some of the people you're you're already recorded and you
Speaker 1: have lined up, and what you talk about with them.
Speaker 2: Yeah, so you know, you know, my first guest is
Speaker 2: gonna be Christo Garcia, who runs Classic Swing Golf School
Speaker 2: on the show. Yeah, and Christo's amazing and he's got,
Speaker 2: you know, just a great story and a great approach
Speaker 2: to golf. I but you know, I really tried, you know,
Speaker 2: with the guests I've recorded so far, most of them,
Speaker 2: and I'm going to be adding a bunch of other people.
Speaker 2: But you know, are a lot of instructors talking about
Speaker 2: different approaches to you know, how to hit the ball
Speaker 2: and how to get better. So I have I talked
Speaker 2: to Mike Malaska, who's terrific who talks. We had a
Speaker 2: great conversation really about you know, and not to get
Speaker 2: too technical, but he did a great description about talking
Speaker 2: to Jack Nicholas about the hands and how the hands
Speaker 2: are used in the swing, and and he's Mike is
Speaker 2: such a great instructor and just understands golf so well,
Speaker 2: and he really gives just this perfect description via Nicholas
Speaker 2: of the importance of the hands, you know, just in
Speaker 2: the swing.
Speaker 1: I can't wait to hear you because I tried to
Speaker 1: get him on multiple times and never was able to.
Speaker 1: So I'm so excited that you're getting him on.
Speaker 2: Yeah. No, And my Mike is great. I've got uh,
Speaker 2: Manty shine Bloom, who who was the world long driving
Speaker 2: champion at one time and is now an instructor, and
Speaker 2: Manti you know, And what I love about these guys,
Speaker 2: you know, about everybody, you know, everybody's you know, the
Speaker 2: human part of it is what's really interesting and kind
Speaker 2: of the journey to how they you know, got where
Speaker 2: they got. And Monty his dad was Richie shine Bloom,
Speaker 2: who played for in the nineteen seventy two All Star
Speaker 2: Game for the Kansas City Royals.
Speaker 1: Oh my gosh.
Speaker 2: And and he and Monty was a very good high
Speaker 2: school baseball player who blew out his elbow, took up golf,
Speaker 2: of course, became immediately, you know, one of those guys
Speaker 2: who was shooting sixty eight within you know, eighteen months.
Speaker 2: But then he and he won this long drive champion
Speaker 2: he played in college, and then his swing, his game
Speaker 2: kind of fell apart and he quit the game. I'm
Speaker 2: actually really surprised at the number of high level instructors
Speaker 2: I've interviewed who at you know, not a huge percentage
Speaker 2: of them, but enough quit at some point and just
Speaker 2: said I just can't I lost it. I can't do
Speaker 2: it anymore. And and Monty, which I love this, he
Speaker 2: went and he he he decided he went to a
Speaker 2: driving range and he would go there every day and
Speaker 2: he would find the worst swing on the range. And
Speaker 2: he has an ability to mimic swings and he would
Speaker 2: then go mimic he'd go to another booth, he'd do
Speaker 2: their swing, and then he would fix it himself. And
Speaker 2: he did this for like a year. He would just
Speaker 2: go every day, find the worst swing, go to the
Speaker 2: other end of the driving range, imitate it, then fix it.
Speaker 2: And that was his way and finding himself, finding his
Speaker 2: own way back to his swing, you know, which I
Speaker 2: just I've always you know, just like love loved that
Speaker 2: story and that approach. Right. Another guy who I actually
Speaker 2: worked with for a couple of days. It's a guy
Speaker 2: named Jacob Bowden who.
Speaker 1: I've known Jacob for years.
Speaker 2: Oh, Jacob's he when.
Speaker 1: He first started this quest, he reached out to me
Speaker 1: and I had him on. I must have had him
Speaker 1: on a half dozen times.
Speaker 2: Jacobs, He's great, He's amazing and and you know, and
Speaker 2: he's he's a disciple of Mike Austin. You know who
Speaker 2: was the guy who hit the longest drive in the
Speaker 2: history of competition? I think it like the seventy four
Speaker 2: US Senior Open. He uh, I think, And I'm going
Speaker 2: he hit a five hundred and seventy two year drive
Speaker 2: with a persimmon driver and an old golf ball. I
Speaker 2: think the conditions were right because it was in Vegas
Speaker 2: and it was very dry, and he had a good
Speaker 2: win behind him. But still five seventy two isn't bad.
Speaker 2: And and I actually spent a day or two in
Speaker 2: Detroit with Jacob, taking some lessons, and it was really
Speaker 2: you know, because with the Austin swing, you know, the
Speaker 2: whole thing is, you know, you get your hands super high.
Speaker 2: It's a much bigger swing then I'm used to. And
Speaker 2: it's really about getting your hands way high in your
Speaker 2: swing and then kind of letting things fall from there.
Speaker 2: And I have always you know it certainly, you know,
Speaker 2: we all struggle with controlling trying to control the swing.
Speaker 2: And I really had to let go. And I was like,
Speaker 2: this is never ever going to work. And the next
Speaker 2: day and it worked a little bit on this indoor
Speaker 2: driving range. The next day we went out and played
Speaker 2: and we I decided, you know, I was like, oh,
Speaker 2: you know, I'll hit one ball with my regular driver,
Speaker 2: you know, regular drive, and hit one ball driving like
Speaker 2: Jacob has taught me. And I was hitting the ball
Speaker 2: and it is not and this is no, not Jacob's fault,
Speaker 2: this is mine. It is not stayed. But I hit
Speaker 2: I think on the first hole, I think I hit
Speaker 2: a two hundred and eighty five year drive directly down
Speaker 2: the middle, you know, and I hit about two forty
Speaker 2: two fifty usually and the ball flew.
Speaker 1: Which I was laced to two ten. Ye, everyone thinks
Speaker 1: they hit it.
Speaker 2: Oh no, no, let me let me tell you something. My
Speaker 2: father taught me very very young that lying about anything
Speaker 2: related to golf is the worst kind of dishonesty on
Speaker 2: the planet. So I've tried at least as much as like,
Speaker 2: I'm not going to say I'm the only the only
Speaker 2: honest golfer because I'm probably I probably lie about all
Speaker 2: kinds of crap, but I will or you know, conflate things.
Speaker 2: But whatever, and anyway I I do. I mean I
Speaker 2: can and now I can hit the ball, you know,
Speaker 2: longer than I did before. I can hit the mob
Speaker 2: about two sixty. You know, not every time, but when
Speaker 2: I worked with Jacob, I mean I was hitting the
Speaker 2: ball two eighty and I was hitting it. The ball
Speaker 2: flew in a totally different way. I was like, it's
Speaker 2: going to go all over the place. And it was
Speaker 2: the straightest I have ever hit drives in my entire life.
Speaker 1: Wow.
Speaker 2: So and plus Jacob is amazing. You know A side note,
Speaker 2: when I was with Jacob, who is I think just
Speaker 2: turned fifty and who looks like he's forty. You're kidding, Yeah,
Speaker 2: he's fifty, he's fifty.
Speaker 1: And I would have said he's mid thirties at best.
Speaker 2: Well, and talk about a physical specimen. We were talking
Speaker 2: about that Brian Johnson, the redheaded guy who did the
Speaker 2: Netflix special. He's the one who's trying to live forever.
Speaker 2: He's the billionaire who's siphoning his son's blood and he's
Speaker 2: taking all these supplements and he has an app that's
Speaker 2: a longevity app. And one of the tests is can
Speaker 2: you stand up from sitting down without using your hands?
Speaker 2: And I said, and so he was telling me about it,
Speaker 2: and I said, can you do that? And we're on
Speaker 2: the street in Detroit, and Jacob says sure, and he
Speaker 2: sits down without using his hands, like totally normal, just
Speaker 2: like loop down, and then stays there for ten seconds
Speaker 2: and stands right up without using his hands. And I
Speaker 2: was like, well, I'm not living forever, but that dude, No, no, no, no,
Speaker 2: off the ground friend.
Speaker 1: Oh oh, sit down on the ground.
Speaker 2: On the ground like cross like in a.
Speaker 1: Squat or oh in a c who okay, never mind.
Speaker 1: I just I just like got up from my chair
Speaker 1: and he's like, yeah, no, no, I thought, I.
Speaker 2: I can't get up from my chair with no hands.
Speaker 2: I'm seventy no, I'm at fifty nine. I will tell
Speaker 2: you I am not going.
Speaker 1: To be okay. I'm gonna get on the floor. Hang
Speaker 1: on a seconds, let's.
Speaker 2: See if you can do this.
Speaker 1: Okay, I'm going to get a cross leg on the
Speaker 1: floor here and with out my hands.
Speaker 2: Josh, I still see at the top of your head. Friend, Josh,
Speaker 2: can you I can't get up if I was okay?
Speaker 1: So I well, I wrapped my I didn't go straight
Speaker 1: from cross leg, but I did get up.
Speaker 2: Yeah.
Speaker 1: And I'm working so hard at my core these days
Speaker 1: and working so hard.
Speaker 2: Yeah, Jacob, Jacob is great. So I've got an episode
Speaker 2: with Jacob, you know. And then just a whole bunch
Speaker 2: of really great people. I talked to Jane Blaylock, who
Speaker 2: played on the LPGA tour good and she was great
Speaker 2: and kind of talked about, you know, growing up playing
Speaker 2: with boys and learning her swing from you know, from
Speaker 2: from the boys. I've got a couple of biomechanics experts.
Speaker 1: I love that on the Scientists.
Speaker 2: I don't know if you've had them, Rob Neil or
Speaker 2: Sasha McKenzie, I.
Speaker 1: Think I have.
Speaker 2: Yeah, he's great, He's terrific. And then like Bradley Hughes,
Speaker 2: Matt Forte and Sean Clement. I talked to all those
Speaker 2: guys and it's just a really great group. And then
Speaker 2: you know different people, you know, just a whole really
Speaker 2: and then just you know, some kind of golf personality
Speaker 2: type people. I talked to Peter Kessler, Wow, yeah about
Speaker 2: his friend his relationship with with Seve Palmer and Steed.
Speaker 1: Oh excellent.
Speaker 2: And he told me a great story about Sevie coming
Speaker 2: over to his house and throwing out all of his
Speaker 2: sixty degree irons because he said nobody should ever he's
Speaker 2: a sixty degree iron and uh, yeah, so you know,
Speaker 2: so it's it's really love this. Yeah, it's been so
Speaker 2: much fun. And you know, it's been I've learned a lot,
Speaker 2: you know, about the swing, and they've and plus I
Speaker 2: just they're great people and they're everybody has a really fun,
Speaker 2: you know, compelling story. And that's what I love is
Speaker 2: I just I like the people in golf and I
Speaker 2: like listen.
Speaker 1: To well they know how they don't. You really don't
Speaker 1: need many referrals from me. You've got your own lists.
Speaker 1: Although are there people that have been on our on
Speaker 1: before they other than what you've mentioned that you'd like
Speaker 1: to get on.
Speaker 2: Oh yeah, I think, I think, I yeah, we will.
Speaker 2: Just I'm going to take a look at the list
Speaker 2: and see, you know who.
Speaker 1: Who you've got to get doctor Bob Jones.
Speaker 2: Oh that that is like right up there, because you know,
Speaker 2: I've really tried to. Yeah, I'm really interested. You know,
Speaker 2: I look at you know, you look at golf today
Speaker 2: and you look at you know, Rory and bryceon and
Speaker 2: all these guys, and one thing I know is I'm
Speaker 2: never going to swing like those dudes. Like they you know,
Speaker 2: they're born with the club in their hands. They are
Speaker 2: you know, stretching their bodies in places my body doesn't
Speaker 2: even know can be stretched, and exercise that, you know,
Speaker 2: strengthening muscles I don't know I have. And you know
Speaker 2: that everything they're doing is just it's such a high level.
Speaker 2: But you know, I really love you know, talking and
Speaker 2: learning about kind of a more classic swing approach and
Speaker 2: learning about you know, the swings of guys like you know,
Speaker 2: Snead and Nicholas and Hogan and weiss Cough and Johnny
Speaker 2: Miller and all those guys who I watch growing up
Speaker 2: kind of you know, who have swings. You know, when
Speaker 2: swings were different from each other, you know, when everybody
Speaker 2: wasn't just crushing the ball, you know, three you know,
Speaker 2: three hundred off the tee and then hitting a wedgend. So,
Speaker 2: you know, there's a lot of really you know, I
Speaker 2: love the historical stuff, and I talked to you know,
Speaker 2: and there are people like theirs. I talked to Tom
Speaker 2: Bertrand who who runs basically a Hogan school teaching people. Yeah,
Speaker 2: and I love that they've dedicated their lives to one
Speaker 2: school of thought, you know, and that's always really interesting,
Speaker 2: interesting to learn from, you know, and why they pursued that.
Speaker 1: I got an idea here, since we didn't have the
Speaker 1: opportunity to interview Jim Waldron together like we had hoped
Speaker 1: to do and still hope to do in the future,
Speaker 1: let's do this. Well, let's take a break, and when
Speaker 1: we come back, let's let's go back in history and
Speaker 1: really let the audience know more about you, and we'll
Speaker 1: bring back that first interview that we did together. Strangely enough,
Speaker 1: we're publishing this on April twenty first, twenty twenty six.
Speaker 1: That came out on April twentieth, twenty ten.
Speaker 2: Oh Get out of Here six.
Speaker 1: Sixteen years ago. That was episode two hundred and twenty seven,
Speaker 1: and this is episode one thousand and thirty of fresh content,
Speaker 1: So do that. Let's just replay and then next week
Speaker 1: on the next episode and you will take off with
Speaker 1: which christ Garcia. Yeah, Christopher's had on and he's great,
Speaker 1: he's entertaining. And what I loved about Christjo Garcia, he
Speaker 1: was one of us. He's somebody who just came from
Speaker 1: being an amateur golfer but was obsessed and needed to
Speaker 1: get better and he did and be absolutely right, and
Speaker 1: he became really good on YouTube.
Speaker 2: Yeah, and he's the guy who did it right. I
Speaker 2: mean he was really you know, he was shooting over
Speaker 2: one hundred I think after exactly and became and now
Speaker 2: he's teaching, so yeah, that'd be. Yeah. He's a great guest.
Speaker 1: So so it's perfect, so perfect. So let's let everyone
Speaker 1: know we'll meet you again and we'll just play what
Speaker 1: ended up being a Mulligan's episode a while ago. But
Speaker 1: we're going to bring that one back. So let me
Speaker 1: just say now goodbye. I want to thank all the
Speaker 1: audience over the years who've come and gone. For the
Speaker 1: people who've criticized me, thank you very much. I took
Speaker 1: it to heart and I listened and I paid attention,
Speaker 1: and I tried to get better, and I'll be back occasionally.
Speaker 1: We'll talk again. I'll give you updates on how my
Speaker 1: game is going and what equipment I'm playing with, whatever
Speaker 1: it is. We talk about where I travel to, and
Speaker 1: I'm going to miss this. I'm going to miss y'all.
Speaker 1: And I just am so so pleased to hand it
Speaker 1: over to Josh and put it in your hands, because
Speaker 1: it's going to get even better.
Speaker 2: Well, I want to say thank you for trusting me
Speaker 2: with your show and your audience, and you are. I
Speaker 2: hope you'll be back as often as you want, and
Speaker 2: I hope you shoot under your age before you hit
Speaker 2: seventy six, as I know you've planned so.
Speaker 1: Our guest today is Josh Carp, author of a new book,
Speaker 1: very funny book called Straight down the Middle, subtitled Shives, Irons,
Speaker 1: Bagger Vance and How I Learned to Stop worrying and
Speaker 1: Love my Golf swing. Welcome to the Golf Smarter Podcast.
Speaker 2: Josh, Hey, how are you.
Speaker 1: I'm doing well. Thank you so much for joining us.
Speaker 2: Oh, thanks for having me on the show.
Speaker 1: Well, I'm excited to have you on the show because
Speaker 1: a couple of reasons. But first of all, I get
Speaker 1: your book in the mail from what is a chronicle press. Yeah,
Speaker 1: and I'm looking at going, well, this looks kind of
Speaker 1: interesting because it kind of fits into what we do.
Speaker 1: And the next day Jamie Zimron, who's just been on
Speaker 1: Golf Smarter and has been on multiple times before, she said,
Speaker 1: do you know Josh Carp have you have you? Have
Speaker 1: you read his book yet? And I'm like, wow, I
Speaker 1: just got in the mail. Hang on his second.
Speaker 2: Jed as if my seven year old will tell you
Speaker 2: Jamie is my son? Say, he always goes, you have
Speaker 2: a sunsey your golf sense, so so yeah, Jams all
Speaker 2: of our golf sense absolutely.
Speaker 1: And also her brother is my congressman.
Speaker 2: So right, yeah, I know that's the issue. I learned
Speaker 2: that when I played with her.
Speaker 1: So yeah, yeah, so tell me the premise.
Speaker 2: Now.
Speaker 1: The beautiful thing that you get to do that I
Speaker 1: get to do with having the podcast is I can
Speaker 1: talk to for as long as I want. We generally
Speaker 1: go about thirty minutes. And I'm sure in your process
Speaker 1: of promoting your book straight down the Middle, you've done
Speaker 1: a lot of radio interviews. Chronicles very aggressive about getting
Speaker 1: the word out on your book, as they should be
Speaker 1: because it's very entertaining, thank you. But you know, doing
Speaker 1: a radio interview, you may not be talking to a
Speaker 1: golf audience, which you are here, and they'll interview you
Speaker 1: for four or five minutes and cut it down to
Speaker 1: a thirty second cut.
Speaker 2: Yeah. No, you know it's been I've been on all
Speaker 2: kinds of different shows, you know, some golf shows, some sports,
Speaker 2: some NPR, and strangely enough, since the book kind of
Speaker 2: touches on Buddhism and things like that, I've been booked
Speaker 2: on a lot of self help shows and just the
Speaker 2: oh to tell me about it, Like you think you're laughing,
Speaker 2: you should hear how much my wife is laughing. And
Speaker 2: I got booked on a show, and you know, you
Speaker 2: get a notice from your publiciste and it says, okay,
Speaker 2: you know you're gonna be on this show for you
Speaker 2: know whatever, here's where it runs and all that. So anyway,
Speaker 2: I get booked on this show and we start, the
Speaker 2: guy calls me up and he goes live and he
Speaker 2: goes for the next hour, our life strategist, our guest
Speaker 2: life strategist is going to be Josh Carp And I
Speaker 2: was like, oh, these poor people. I was like, guest
Speaker 2: life strategist, I probably screwed up you know, half the
Speaker 2: people in Shreveport, Louisiana, you know. And in the one
Speaker 2: hour I was on, so it's yeah, and then.
Speaker 1: Pulled with this guy. Yeah yeah, and you talk about
Speaker 1: golf and he was talking about life strategy.
Speaker 2: Well we we we worked golf into life strategy.
Speaker 1: It's that's good to do on show.
Speaker 2: But yeah, it was real. I mean it was hilarious.
Speaker 2: It was just like, oh my goodness, guest life strategists,
Speaker 2: this is going to be trouble. So but it was fun.
Speaker 1: So where was this guy able to I don't even
Speaker 1: want to go there. Let's talk about your book. So
Speaker 1: what I loved about it is it felt like I
Speaker 1: was as I'm reading this book, it feels like I'm
Speaker 1: listening to a Golf Smarter podcast. I mean, what you
Speaker 1: did is what I've been talking about and interviewing all
Speaker 1: these different mental coaches and golf instructors with the same concept.
Speaker 1: I mean, you put it down on paper, but you
Speaker 1: lived it. I'm just getting you know, if I get
Speaker 1: thirty minutes to talk to Jamie Zimron or Jim Walden
Speaker 1: or doctor Joe Parent. I feel like I got all
Speaker 1: this phenomenal information out of them for such a brief
Speaker 1: period of time. You get to kind of live with
Speaker 1: these people and go work with them, right, Yeah.
Speaker 2: Absolutely, I mean it was you know, the kind of
Speaker 2: the basic premise of the book was testing the non
Speaker 2: traditional kind of Eastern spirituality inspired world of golf instruction,
Speaker 2: and kind of the humorous premise being you know, inner
Speaker 2: Piece lowered my handicap, or Will Lwering my handicap helped
Speaker 2: me find interner piece and there. Yeah, no, oh god.
Speaker 1: No, I've just it's like, how did you get to
Speaker 1: this point saying okay, I'm going to be able to
Speaker 1: write a book about this? How did where did you? Well,
Speaker 1: you're a writer, right, so you you have a publisher
Speaker 1: and you proposed this to them? Or how did this
Speaker 1: come about?
Speaker 2: Yeah? You know what happened was I had written my
Speaker 2: first book was a biography of this guy Doug Kenny
Speaker 2: who wrote Animal House in Caddyshack and start National Lampoon
Speaker 2: and died. Yeah it was it was interesting and he
Speaker 2: died like very mysteriously right after Caddyshack came out. So
Speaker 2: I had finished that book and right around that time,
Speaker 2: I I had taken up meditation and my wife took
Speaker 2: me to a meditation seminar on the North side of Chicago.
Speaker 2: And I in there and I always say I was,
Speaker 2: you know, I was like everybody there was exactly who
Speaker 2: you'd expect at a meditation seminar, you know, sandal natural
Speaker 2: fiber clothing, big long beards, whole deal. And you know,
Speaker 2: I'm sitting there in like my Chicago white Sox hat,
Speaker 2: and I'm already bad news to everybody. And we meditate
Speaker 2: and I was like, you know, I was like I
Speaker 2: gotta get out of here, you know, go out and
Speaker 2: have dinner, go see a movie. And then we finish
Speaker 2: up the meditation.
Speaker 1: With a white Sox hat. You wanted to go out
Speaker 1: and have a steak, and everyone else wanted to go
Speaker 1: have a Tofu burger.
Speaker 2: Absolutely, oh no. They put out snacks, I remember, and
Speaker 2: it was like, you know, yeah, it was like vegetables
Speaker 2: and vegan buns. I was like, no thanks. So we
Speaker 2: go around the room and we all have to talk
Speaker 2: about what meditation has done for us. So I said, hey,
Speaker 2: you know, meditation is improved my golf game. And I mean,
Speaker 2: you know, it's like everybody just looks at me like,
Speaker 2: this is you know, if there's a blasphemy in Buddhism,
Speaker 2: this was it. And the guy who ran the some
Speaker 2: are kind of very calmly, says he goes, Oh, the
Speaker 2: sak Young is an avid golfer, and the sak Young
Speaker 2: is this guy sack Young Rimpochet, who is the kind
Speaker 2: of spiritual leader of this Buddhist organization called Shambala, which
Speaker 2: actually doc parent has been affiliated with. And so my
Speaker 2: first thought was, okay, this is like, you know, the Dali,
Speaker 2: Lamasine and Caddyshack. I write magazine articles for a living.
Speaker 2: I'm like, I'll go play golf with this guy. You know,
Speaker 2: he'll wear flowing orange robes. You know, he'll enlighten me
Speaker 2: during the course of eighteen holes. This will be great.
Speaker 2: So I started pursuing him, which proved ultimately impossible, but
Speaker 2: which took about two years during the course of writing
Speaker 2: the book, where I was trying to get him to
Speaker 2: play golf with me. And in the meantime I started,
Speaker 2: you know, I'd read Golf in the Kingdom, I'd read
Speaker 2: Bagger Vance, I'd read so on Golf, and I was
Speaker 2: kind of of two minds. You know, half of me
Speaker 2: is like, I get it. I totally get this golf,
Speaker 2: meaning of life, Buddhism, quantum physics deal. And the other
Speaker 2: half of me was like, come on, you know, this
Speaker 2: is Pat summer Ale and Jack Nicholas and plaid pants.
Speaker 2: You know it's there. There's not some big link. This
Speaker 2: is a big excuse for guys, you know, to say like, oh,
Speaker 2: it's a spiritual experience. I'm going to go play aging holes.
Speaker 2: And so I, you know, it was like, okay, you
Speaker 2: know I started taking these lessons. I thought I'm going
Speaker 2: to test this. So what I did really was, you know,
Speaker 2: half the book is pretty much me taking non traditional
Speaker 2: lessons and the other half is me playing golf with
Speaker 2: various kind of spiritual figures of some kind or or
Speaker 2: either spiritual spiritually inclined golfers or golfers who are you know,
Speaker 2: spiritual people. So and it was it was a blast.
Speaker 2: But that's how it happened that I wrote a proposal
Speaker 2: after I after I kind of took my first lesson,
Speaker 2: and you know, wound up with Chronicle and that was it.
Speaker 2: I spent the better part of a year and a
Speaker 2: half while my wife was pregnant with our fourth child
Speaker 2: in ten years. There's great irony in all of them
Speaker 2: for her, you know, playing playing golf for a little
Speaker 2: bit for the timing was really good.
Speaker 1: Four kids in ten years yeah, okay.
Speaker 2: Well I'm I'm living it now.
Speaker 1: So yeah, right, you're not into college years yet. Huh.
Speaker 1: You better sell a lot of books, buddy.
Speaker 2: That's my plan. The things you don't think about before
Speaker 2: you have four kids. Oh my god, I got to
Speaker 2: pay for these kids to go to school.
Speaker 1: Do you have any Do you have any daughters? No?
Speaker 2: Oh? Boys?
Speaker 1: Oh so you don't have to pay for weddings.
Speaker 2: No, but you also have to give up on having
Speaker 2: anything nice in your house because everything just gets trash.
Speaker 2: It's true. Yeah.
Speaker 1: Yeah, I raised two boys, and there are holes in
Speaker 1: the wall from from the games of pickle in the hallway.
Speaker 2: Or yeah, my brother in laws that there were holes
Speaker 2: from them throwing each other occasionally into the wall, you know,
Speaker 2: out of out of.
Speaker 1: Throwing your kids into the wall.
Speaker 2: No, no, no, no, my brother in law is not not.
Speaker 2: Oh okay, they have not.
Speaker 1: Let's get back to the book. We can talk about
Speaker 1: your experiences, but I'd really like to talk about the
Speaker 1: people that you worked with that we've talked to on
Speaker 1: this show, and there is I got a list of
Speaker 1: at least six people that we've covered on this show
Speaker 1: that you've already worked with. And I think what I
Speaker 1: want to do is start with doctor Joseph parent tell
Speaker 1: me about I've had a chance to play golf with
Speaker 1: him once, and I've had him on the show like
Speaker 1: four times in the last four years. He's just I
Speaker 1: just love his stuff. And actually the reason I started
Speaker 1: the podcast he was our very first guest is because
Speaker 1: the book Zen Golf, to me was really a game changer.
Speaker 1: Literally it changed my game and my approach to golf.
Speaker 1: So it was so great for me to get him
Speaker 1: on the show, and it just meant so much to me.
Speaker 2: You know, I first of all, I mean, you know,
Speaker 2: I had I spent a day with him and just
Speaker 2: a wonderful guy and great company and you know, in
Speaker 2: a for real Buddhists too. Yeah, I mean, you know,
Speaker 2: really the whole deal. He's he's it. And I was
Speaker 2: one of the things I told him was, you know,
Speaker 2: I had reads on golf a couple of times, and
Speaker 2: there's this thing where you can where you play golf
Speaker 2: with people and you can tell they're under the influence
Speaker 2: of the book without even them telling you. Because several
Speaker 2: times they played golf with people and they hit some
Speaker 2: terrible shot and you'd hear them go under their breath. Interesting,
Speaker 2: and I was like, you've read on golf, haven't you.
Speaker 2: Oh yeah, So yes, I went and I spent the
Speaker 2: day with Doc and ken Zieger, who's uh, you know,
Speaker 2: kind of his right hand guy. And it was really fantastic.
Speaker 2: I mean, we we did some meditation practice and we
Speaker 2: you know, went and played played golf and just kind
Speaker 2: of talked as we were playing about some of the
Speaker 2: philosophy behind he's done in some Adoc's background. And you know,
Speaker 2: the one thing that was very, you know, really remarkable was,
Speaker 2: you know, we talked and he was saying I was
Speaker 2: asking him. I'm like, God, wasn't it intimidated intimidating to
Speaker 2: work with with VJ? You know, because I mean, my god,
Speaker 2: you're working with VJ? Saying no, he said, you know,
Speaker 2: he said, I have unconditional confidence, and I was like,
Speaker 2: oh my god, it's like talk about I was like,
Speaker 2: I'm the anti unconditional confidence guy, you know, so but.
Speaker 1: Right, just like that's where.
Speaker 2: I want to get I'm like, I'm shooting. I was like, okay,
Speaker 2: there's Michael unconditional confidence on the golf course. But yeah,
Speaker 2: I mean, you know, it was really you know, I was.
Speaker 2: I really enjoyed his company and I learned a great
Speaker 2: deal from him, and really, you know what I what
Speaker 2: I enjoyed about him was we could have kind of
Speaker 2: a serious I did not convert to Buddhism and working
Speaker 2: on this book, but I learned a lot about it.
Speaker 2: And I learned a lot from him about Buddhism and
Speaker 2: applying it to my golf game and really, you know,
Speaker 2: not being reactive when you do you know, when you
Speaker 2: do something lousy, and that happens to me a lot.
Speaker 2: So it was. It was very very good. It was good.
Speaker 2: You know, I'd read the book, but it really you know,
Speaker 2: to see it in practice. You know, when he hit
Speaker 2: a lousy shot, he was just like it was gone,
Speaker 2: you know, he was over it and just marched on.
Speaker 2: And I was like, that is a fantastic example for
Speaker 2: me to yeah, follow.
Speaker 1: And that's true. I mean, so good, he's living it.
Speaker 1: He's walking the he's walking the talk.
Speaker 2: Oh absolutely, yeah, good good.
Speaker 1: Well, I need to break for a little spot here.
Speaker 1: It's kind of like the perfect place to break because
Speaker 1: this episode of the Golf Smarter Podcast is brought to
Speaker 1: you by Audible dot Com. Are you an audiobook guy?
Speaker 2: I occasionally listen to audiobooks, but yeah, I'm.
Speaker 1: Well, then maybe you should sign up for Audible dot
Speaker 1: com because they will absolutely there is the internet. It's
Speaker 1: leading provider of audiobooks, with more than seventy five thousand
Speaker 1: downloadable titles across all types of literature, including golf, and
Speaker 1: features audio versions of many New York Times bestsellers. Now,
Speaker 1: for listeners of the Golf Smarter Podcast, Audible is offering
Speaker 1: a free audio book, which is the perfect segue here
Speaker 1: to give you a chance to try out their service.
Speaker 1: And so maybe what you should do since your book
Speaker 1: Straight Down the Middle is yet to be an audiobook,
Speaker 1: maybe you and I can work on that together. Okay,
Speaker 1: but Doctor Joe Parents, books, Zen Golf, Zen Putting, and
Speaker 1: his new one, The Art of the Mental Game are
Speaker 1: all audiobooks. So if you haven't read that yet, maybe
Speaker 1: this is a way to get into Audible dot com.
Speaker 1: By just reading Doctor Joe Parent as an audiobook. You
Speaker 1: can do it while you're in your car. You can
Speaker 1: do it while you're working out. You can do it
Speaker 1: on the range when you're warming up. I mean, I've
Speaker 1: seen people with headphones on in the driving range and
Speaker 1: I'm like, how do you do that without being I
Speaker 1: would know how they do it without getting tangled up?
Speaker 1: Let alone, but that would be a great place the
Speaker 1: start Doctor Joe Parent The Art of the Mental Game,
Speaker 1: his newest or the classic to me Zen Golf and
Speaker 1: Zen Putting. They are available at audible dot com and
Speaker 1: if you'd like to sign up and get a free
Speaker 1: audiobook of your choice, it doesn't have to be one
Speaker 1: of the ones that we suggested, but you can go
Speaker 1: to audible podcast dot com slash golf Smarter. It's audible
Speaker 1: podcast dot com slash golf Smarter, and we thank them
Speaker 1: very much for participating in our show today. But we
Speaker 1: want to get back to your next person that you
Speaker 1: worked with that we've had on the show, who I
Speaker 1: think is phenomenal, Jim Waldron. I like having him on
Speaker 1: the show. I think he is so right on in
Speaker 1: what he talks about.
Speaker 2: Yeah, he you know, really, in addition to getting to
Speaker 2: work on my golf game and getting to learn all
Speaker 2: about this stuff, one of the things I really I
Speaker 2: met such great people. I mean you're really interesting people.
Speaker 2: I mean, you know, one thing, and I'm sure you
Speaker 2: know this from your show, when you really start to
Speaker 2: look at golf instruction, I mean there's you know, like
Speaker 2: a method of instruction pretty much for every golfer on
Speaker 2: the planet, you know, for there's so many methods out there,
Speaker 2: right and that, yeah and yeah, and you know, and
Speaker 2: different things work for different people, and so it's really interesting.
Speaker 2: I mean, I think one of the things I loved
Speaker 2: about Jim was, you know, he had very you know, theoretically.
Speaker 2: I really enjoyed he he is really thought through so
Speaker 2: many different disciplines, you know, in a non traditional way
Speaker 2: and integrated them into his instruction. And you know, and
Speaker 2: just a fascinating guy, a guy who's done a lot
Speaker 2: of different things in his life, you know, and comes
Speaker 2: to this as a really good golfer too, which you know,
Speaker 2: which which is which is impressive. But no, we had
Speaker 2: a we had a great time. We spent two days
Speaker 2: together in Portland or outside of Portland and Banks, Oregon,
Speaker 2: and yeah, you know it was really you know what
Speaker 2: one of the things, you know, one of the premises
Speaker 2: behind you know, say bagger vance, for example, is that
Speaker 2: there's this idea of having an authentic swing. And one
Speaker 2: of the great things about Jim was he was like, well,
Speaker 2: that's not true. He's like, he's like, there is not
Speaker 2: an authentic swing. And he was like, you know, in
Speaker 2: what other world do you hear people say, you know,
Speaker 2: there's an authentic you know, inner pianist, or an authentic shortstop.
Speaker 2: You know, it's not like and and one of the
Speaker 2: things I love that he said was he goes, you know,
Speaker 2: he's like, golf is the one sport. He's like, you know,
Speaker 2: if you've kind of been messing around at it for
Speaker 2: a few years, you expect to take three lessons and
Speaker 2: be scratch. And he said, and it's like being a
Speaker 2: guy who messes around on the piano and takes a
Speaker 2: couple lessons and expects to be know, doing concert quality recmanooff.
Speaker 2: You know, right, He's like, and nobody there's no other
Speaker 2: discipline or endeavor in which people expect this, He's like,
Speaker 2: But in golf, we all expect it. We all I
Speaker 2: think we're going to be here and that we are magically,
Speaker 2: you know, just three tips away from being fantastic.
Speaker 1: So that that was really, well, that's why we keep
Speaker 1: playing though, right, absolutely, I mean we all want these
Speaker 1: single digit handicapped and we don't want to work at it.
Speaker 2: Yeah, oh for sure. I mean there's no which. Yeah,
Speaker 2: it's a great it's a great metaphor, certainly for the
Speaker 2: way I live my life, you know, you know, wow,
Speaker 2: I could be great and not have to do much,
Speaker 2: you know, but uh yes, I mean you know that
Speaker 2: was We had a great conversation about that, and then
Speaker 2: you know, we really did. You know. One of the
Speaker 2: things in his school is called balance point and and
Speaker 2: he one of the things he said that you know,
Speaker 2: everybody I worked with, you could really only ultimately when
Speaker 2: you go back to integrate stuff in your game, take
Speaker 2: away you know one or two things, because you know,
Speaker 2: everybody told me forty six things, I could go and
Speaker 2: integrate all these things in my game. Right. And one
Speaker 2: of the things he said that had not occurred to me,
Speaker 2: which maybe just my stupidity, he said, he said, Ben Hogan,
Speaker 2: you know, for all the work he did, you know,
Speaker 2: hitting balls into his hands blood, He's like he worked
Speaker 2: on balance all the time. And I was like, well
Speaker 2: that makes a lot of sense, you know, but it
Speaker 2: never occurred to me. You know, we did some some
Speaker 2: some really interesting balance drills and trying to find the
Speaker 2: right way for me to find physical balance, and you know,
Speaker 2: and I think I think it's kind of a quote
Speaker 2: from Jim, but he said something like, you know, the
Speaker 2: vast majority of you know, failure in sports performance is
Speaker 2: due to to poor balance. And yeah, that had just
Speaker 2: never really occurred to me. And I think, you know,
Speaker 2: in sports, where you're moving, your body has a way
Speaker 2: of naturally balancing itself. Yeah, but it's weird when you're
Speaker 2: just standing there, you don't have that movement to balance
Speaker 2: you so.
Speaker 1: Right, and it becomes right, and it becomes really evident
Speaker 1: how off balance you are when you finish your swing
Speaker 1: and where you finish your swing if you fall over
Speaker 1: leave you know.
Speaker 2: Yeah, absolutely, I mean, you know, it's funny, like, you know,
Speaker 2: one of the things people when I've done some interviews,
Speaker 2: they say, you know, like why do you think golf,
Speaker 2: Why is golf the sport that gets this you know, spirituality,
Speaker 2: looking at your true self in the mirror kind of thing?
Speaker 2: And I said, you know, I think it's because the
Speaker 2: ball doesn't move, because you know, in any almost any
Speaker 2: other sport, you are being reactive, and being reactive for
Speaker 2: the most part, you know, kind of takes you out
Speaker 2: of thinking. And with golf, you got nothing to react to.
Speaker 2: You just got a ball and you and the club,
Speaker 2: And if the ball is going to move, it's you
Speaker 2: who's got to make it move. And I think that's
Speaker 2: a big part of it. I think, you know, when
Speaker 2: the ball is moving in other sports you can't think
Speaker 2: so much. But with golf, you know, you're just like
Speaker 2: right there and it's you and your brain and the ball.
Speaker 1: Which is pretty much your introduction is the worst club
Speaker 1: in my bag is my brain? And is it Wait
Speaker 1: a minute, I think it was. I've been quoting this
Speaker 1: line and I realized, wait a minute, it came out
Speaker 1: of your book. Is this the one that someone said
Speaker 1: to you? Yeah, you have here. Just at the end
Speaker 1: of your introduction, someone said to you. She looked at
Speaker 1: me and with an amused expression, this is the person
Speaker 1: who doesn't play golf. You know where I'm going with this, right?
Speaker 2: Absolutely?
Speaker 1: Sure, go ahead, it's your line, man, go ahead.
Speaker 2: I believe the quote was as a friend of my wife's,
Speaker 2: who was very dubious about this entire endeavoring, we had
Speaker 2: a couple of great conversations about it, and she's that
Speaker 2: I was explaining the book to her and she goes, well,
Speaker 2: of course, people think golf is like life. You play
Speaker 2: against yourself and you can never win. And I like,
Speaker 2: you really understand golf.
Speaker 1: Like nailed it right there. You play against yourself and
Speaker 1: you can never win.
Speaker 2: Yeah, that's for she should keep doing this.
Speaker 1: Let's move on to jamie' zimron because we just had
Speaker 1: her on the show again. This is a woman who
Speaker 1: you talk about coming from different disciplines. She is all
Speaker 1: over the map and she has brought it all together
Speaker 1: on the golf course. And I find her absolutely fascinating.
Speaker 1: Oh yeah, how is your experience with her?
Speaker 2: You know, it was? It was, it was great. I mean,
Speaker 2: I you know, I first of all, like you know,
Speaker 2: the one you know, my my four kids, my my
Speaker 2: seven year old is the one who's been most interested
Speaker 2: in all this and he and the only thing he
Speaker 2: remembers other than her being my sonse is that she
Speaker 2: had me in a driving range with an aikto sword
Speaker 2: like a golf club and he just thought that was
Speaker 2: the coolest. But yeah, I mean, first of all, I mean,
Speaker 2: Jamie is you know, she's an LBGA pro and just
Speaker 2: a fantastic, you know, fantastic golfer and on top of it,
Speaker 2: a great person. But she yeah, she she's integrated aketo.
Speaker 2: I believe she has a psychology degree as well, and
Speaker 2: really from Stanford no less exactly, And and you know,
Speaker 2: it was really I mean I came to her, I
Speaker 2: think at the right time in the book. It was
Speaker 2: about the middle of the book and I was kind
Speaker 2: of starting to get the hang of this a little bit.
Speaker 2: But so what she said really resonated for me. And
Speaker 2: one of the things we talked about, which can sound
Speaker 2: you know, in description a little out there but makes sense,
Speaker 2: is we kind of talked about moving energy when you're playing,
Speaker 2: and you know, we we had a great long discussion
Speaker 2: on a practice here where she said, y know, what
Speaker 2: what what starts your swing? You know, and I gave
Speaker 2: her like forty six different answers in like ten seconds.
Speaker 2: You know, I was like, oh, my right hand, no,
Speaker 2: my shoulder, no, my knee, Oh wait was this? And
Speaker 2: you know, and I couldn't even identify it. And we
Speaker 2: had a long talk about you know, kind of an
Speaker 2: aiketo you know, the flow of it, you know, like
Speaker 2: the guy who created aketo, who's a guy called O Sense,
Speaker 2: was this great martial arts master who really learned how
Speaker 2: to use energy. And I mean they said, you know,
Speaker 2: he could people would attack him and he wouldn't even
Speaker 2: have to touch them. He could just kind of turn
Speaker 2: their energy against them, which I'm not. I don't think
Speaker 2: I'm going to get to that place in my golf game.
Speaker 2: But you know, we talked about where, you know, when
Speaker 2: you're hitting somebody in aiketo, where should the energy be.
Speaker 2: And it's you know, you want it right in your
Speaker 2: fist or your hand or your foot when you're making
Speaker 2: contact with the person, and that's where you want the
Speaker 2: maximum energy when you do something. I had not really
Speaker 2: thought of golf that way, about the energy really ultimately
Speaker 2: going through you into your club. And so we talked
Speaker 2: about kind of building things from the ground up for
Speaker 2: lack of a better way of putting it. And she,
Speaker 2: you know, one of the things I my swing was
Speaker 2: just so completely reliant on my arms, you know, and
Speaker 2: I was really swinging. I mean I was moving my
Speaker 2: legs and feet, but my arms were leading everything. And
Speaker 2: we spent a lot of time on the practice tea,
Speaker 2: working on beginning my swing really from my feet and
Speaker 2: using my left and step to start the back swing
Speaker 2: kind of pushing down and in, and then my right
Speaker 2: in step pushing down an end to start my downswing.
Speaker 2: And once you know this and I hope this will
Speaker 2: come across. Once I started doing that, and I was
Speaker 2: kind of able to envision my arms kind of being
Speaker 2: along for the ride a little bit more than being
Speaker 2: the thing that was generating my swing. That just I mean,
Speaker 2: I started hitting the ball so much better. I mean,
Speaker 2: her her lessons were probably you know, among the most
Speaker 2: impactful in the book and really changed the way I
Speaker 2: thought about how I swing a club and made me
Speaker 2: enjoy swinging a club.
Speaker 1: Oh interesting, which.
Speaker 2: Is also you know, one of the things I learned,
Speaker 2: and people are was like, what do you take away
Speaker 2: from this? You know, And the one thing I learned was,
Speaker 2: you know, you should really learn to enjoy swinging, because that,
Speaker 2: you know, make make your swing something you enjoy, because
Speaker 2: I think so many of us are swing as a
Speaker 2: source of frustration, and we see it only as a
Speaker 2: vehicle to get the ball from here to there. And
Speaker 2: I think if you like, really learn to enjoy swinging
Speaker 2: a club, you know, it's it's like running, and if
Speaker 2: you're just running the lose weight, it's a lot different
Speaker 2: than if you're running because you really like running.
Speaker 1: Wow, that's an excellent point. That really is fabulous. Oh yeah,
Speaker 1: I wish I came up with it right exactly. You're
Speaker 1: you're just the messenger, right, absolutely. All right, So other
Speaker 1: names on here, and I'm going to skim through because
Speaker 1: I want to get to one specifically, since we're running
Speaker 1: out of time. People that have been on this show,
Speaker 1: I swear we approached. I hope that we get to
Speaker 1: play golf together someday.
Speaker 2: I would love that anytime.
Speaker 1: Yeah, but you let's see you work with Catherine Roberts.
Speaker 2: No, I did not work with Catherine.
Speaker 1: Oh but she's on your she's on your website.
Speaker 2: Yes, yeah, I put her on my website as somebody
Speaker 2: who you know who has a does something linked to this,
Speaker 2: And she and I, okay, we emailed a bunch of times,
Speaker 2: and I was actually going to go to one of
Speaker 2: her seminars and I can't remember. I think a couple
Speaker 2: of my like two of my kids got sick and
Speaker 2: not gonna happen.
Speaker 1: We never Well, if you ever get a chance, she's wonderful.
Speaker 2: Yeah.
Speaker 1: She was interviewed her a bunch of times and spent
Speaker 1: some time with her as well. Now Steve Cohen over
Speaker 1: the Shivas Iron Society, and then Michael Murphy. Did you
Speaker 1: get to work with him?
Speaker 2: He doesn't, I mean, yeah, no, he doesn't.
Speaker 1: He was he Yeah, I mean we've had him on
Speaker 1: the show a couple of times. He's a wonderful guy.
Speaker 2: Yeah. You know, when I was working on the proposal,
Speaker 2: he and I had a brief phone conversation and he
Speaker 2: and he was great, you know, and really kind are you?
Speaker 1: Are you a devote to you of the book? You know,
Speaker 1: I love You've read it and you know that it
Speaker 1: once and you're moved on.
Speaker 2: No, you know, I've read it a couple of times.
Speaker 2: One of the one of the reasons I've read it
Speaker 2: a couple of times is because, you know, like a
Speaker 2: lot of great books, it takes a while to totally understand.
Speaker 2: I don't know if I really totally understand. I did
Speaker 2: not get it right.
Speaker 1: Good, thank you.
Speaker 2: I just like it takes a little bit of work,
Speaker 2: and I think that's one of the appeals of it
Speaker 2: is you know, you gotta It's not like you just
Speaker 2: read it and you're like, okay, boom boom boom. There's
Speaker 2: an easy answer it it's it's a lot of stuff
Speaker 2: and it's kind of you know, you got to think.
Speaker 2: But yeah, I liked the book a great deal.
Speaker 1: And yeah, have you ever read the.
Speaker 2: Match that I buy? Mark Frost, Yeah, I've not read it.
Speaker 1: I've I've read read it, read it. Oh my god.
Speaker 1: He was on the show. He talked about it. Besides
Speaker 1: having a beautiful speaking voice, what a phenomenal story. One
Speaker 1: of the better books I've ever read in my life,
Speaker 1: right next to Years of course.
Speaker 2: But oh thank you.
Speaker 1: Well, of course, all right, I want to ask you
Speaker 1: about one one of one of the people we've had
Speaker 1: on the show a couple of times, and I get
Speaker 1: more reaction to this guy than anybody else, Fred Shoemaker.
Speaker 2: Yeah, and no, I didn't work with Fredd either, Oh
Speaker 2: but he was.
Speaker 1: He had another persons on your website.
Speaker 2: No, I'll tell you something. I'll tell you that I
Speaker 2: know because I wanted to kind of give people links
Speaker 2: to places that are spiritual.
Speaker 1: Okay, got you.
Speaker 2: You know what I will say of both Fred and
Speaker 2: and Stephen Pressfield as well, who wrote Bagger Vance. Both
Speaker 2: of them I asked I wanted to work with Fred,
Speaker 2: and Fred gave me one of the most gentlemanly, polite,
Speaker 2: you know, turndowns you could possibly give. I mean, he
Speaker 2: was such a nice guy and and really, you know,
Speaker 2: it was very kind to me and just said, you know, like, hey,
Speaker 2: you can come take my thing anytime. But I really,
Speaker 2: you know, I write golf books, and you know, and
Speaker 2: and and you know, I don't want you necessarily writing
Speaker 2: about what I do. And I was like, yeah, that's
Speaker 2: that was totally fine. But I mean, just a total
Speaker 2: gentleman and a super nice guy. And the same thing
Speaker 2: with Steve Pressfield, who very graciously wrote a blurb for
Speaker 2: my book, and I asked him to play golf with me,
Speaker 2: and he thought about it and then he said, you know,
Speaker 2: I don't want to even though I've written this book,
Speaker 2: I don't want to put myself out there as somebody
Speaker 2: who is speaking authoritatively on spirituality. And I was like,
Speaker 2: you know, that makes a lot of sense. And both
Speaker 2: guys just total gentlemen and really nice nice guys.
Speaker 1: Okay, good, yeah, well very yeah for a tchoemaker, one
Speaker 1: of the nicest and hard to drink, hard to track down,
Speaker 1: but I loved. I loved having him on the show. Josh,
Speaker 1: I need to know what was your handicap before you
Speaker 1: started writing the book?
Speaker 2: It was an eighteen?
Speaker 1: What was your handicap when now.
Speaker 2: I got down to an eleven last summer kind of
Speaker 2: after I finished the summer, after I finished the book,
Speaker 2: I was playing more like a twelve or thirteen. But
Speaker 2: you know, like every for you know, I've rationalized that
Speaker 2: I'm an eleven permanently, you know, since it's my best handicap.
Speaker 2: It's my handicap forever. And my excuse is last summer
Speaker 2: I only played like about six times because things were
Speaker 2: too busy. But when I'm playing a lot, I think,
Speaker 2: you know, I'm an eleven, and I got down to
Speaker 2: an eleven very consistently for a while.
Speaker 1: Okay, so then all of a sudden, now the whole
Speaker 1: thing is valid, No, absolutely, you know, And these people
Speaker 1: did help, and these this thought process has helped.
Speaker 2: Yeah, oh oh, it's helped, you know. In mass I mean,
Speaker 2: first of all, my swing is such a so much
Speaker 2: better of a swing than it used to be. Okay,
Speaker 2: and I'm a mental game wise, I'm so much better.
Speaker 2: The funny thing, I have a friend I write for
Speaker 2: Golf Tips magazine and a friend of mine who's my
Speaker 2: editor there. But halfway through the book, he was like,
Speaker 2: let me get this straight. He goes, You're going to
Speaker 2: see people for one or two days and then you're
Speaker 2: moving on to another person. He's like, anybody will tell
Speaker 2: you that is absolutely the stupidest way to possibly improve
Speaker 2: your golf game. He's like, he's like, everybody will tell
Speaker 2: you find a person and stick with them. And you
Speaker 2: know what was really interesting is they helped me in
Speaker 2: ways that no other, you know, instruction I've ever had
Speaker 2: has ever helped me. So yeah, it improved my game immensely.
Speaker 1: And that's exactly what has happened to me in the
Speaker 1: process of doing this show that I think that my
Speaker 1: metal game has gotten so much better and there's been
Speaker 1: elements in my swing that have been improved that I
Speaker 1: started the show. I was around in eighteen nineteen and
Speaker 1: now I'm well, I've gotten down to an eleven. I'm
Speaker 1: up to a thirteen now, But yeah.
Speaker 2: But you're really at eleven.
Speaker 1: No, I still think of myself as a fifteen.
Speaker 2: Oh, so you're more honest. I'm like, like, I've been eleven,
Speaker 2: you know, I have been.
Speaker 1: And I when I was there, I didn't believe it.
Speaker 1: That's part of the problem. When I was down to
Speaker 1: an eleven, I'm like, how's that? I know, come on,
Speaker 1: so I couldn't I couldn't maintain it because I didn't
Speaker 1: believe it.
Speaker 2: Well, it's I don't know if you've had the experience
Speaker 2: if you talked to guys where some guys were sinking digits,
Speaker 2: and they'd say, what a burden it is, because when
Speaker 2: you get there, you're spending your whole life trying to
Speaker 2: maintain it, you know, and you're always kind of teetering
Speaker 2: on the edge. And I'm like, I'd like to have
Speaker 2: that burden. That would be that would be great for me.
Speaker 1: I interviewed one guy who said, have you ever noticed
Speaker 1: the correlation between how many days a month somebody works
Speaker 1: and their handicap? So a guy who's like a guy
Speaker 1: who's a nine probably works about nine days a month. Right, Actually,
Speaker 1: that's a really good point.
Speaker 2: Well, what was that that there's that there's that joke
Speaker 2: about Yeah, you it's either your lawyer or your doctor.
Speaker 2: They said, you know, the better a golfer they are,
Speaker 2: the more you should be worried about the quality of
Speaker 2: service you're receiving. So yeah, but I I will happily
Speaker 2: you know, I would happily be you know, a five
Speaker 2: and let people wonder wonder about my capacity as a journalist.
Speaker 1: So well, again, the book is called Straight down the
Speaker 1: Middle SHIVI us Irons Bagger Vance and how I learned
Speaker 1: to stop worrying and love my golf swing. There you go,
Speaker 1: Jamie's Immron right there, right. Yeah, absolutely, it's great and
Speaker 1: it's really a fun book to read. It's very funny.
Speaker 1: I love your voice in this and I would definitely
Speaker 1: tell people to go on It's available on Amazon, I'm sure,
Speaker 1: and so that means it will be in our golfer
Speaker 1: Smart at golfsmarter dot com. Unfortunately it's not on audible yet,
Speaker 1: but hopefully someday it will be. Yeah, exactly, So, Josh Carb,
Speaker 1: thanks so much for joining us on the Golf Smart
Speaker 1: podcast and best of luck with the book.
Speaker 2: Oh, thank you for having me on the show.