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<v Speaker 1>So for our next segment, we are gonna go over

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<v Speaker 1>the new moral panic of grooming. And rich I think

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<v Speaker 1>you're going to be leading us off on this.

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<v Speaker 2>I am well, history is replete. That's one of my

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<v Speaker 2>favorite words. Repleat with examples of people using a moral

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<v Speaker 2>discquoitment something people don't like within their societies to find

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<v Speaker 2>a group of people and demonize it. It's how the

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<v Speaker 2>witch craze has happened. It's how the Nazis gained power

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<v Speaker 2>and got away with what they did. These things happen

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<v Speaker 2>time and time again, and according to Matthew Rosa of

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<v Speaker 2>the Salon, it's happening right now in a good state

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<v Speaker 2>of Florida. Would be Florida, wouldn't it. With God of Ronda,

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<v Speaker 2>Santis is banning his books in public schools, and the

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<v Speaker 2>excuse is he doesn't want people to groom children and

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<v Speaker 2>pedophiles and the people he doesn't want grooming of. Of course,

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<v Speaker 2>the LGTB total these letters for me that plus community

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<v Speaker 2>because obviously obviously not And this is the latest example.

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<v Speaker 2>It's an interesting article, the latest example of how it

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<v Speaker 2>seems to be a go to of right wing parties,

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<v Speaker 2>not just in the US, but beyond and they're doing

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<v Speaker 2>it again, and it's yeah, it is back, it is back,

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<v Speaker 2>and it is in Floyd. So the reason you can't

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<v Speaker 2>get certain books is caused LGBTQ plus people are groomers.

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<v Speaker 2>What say you people?

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<v Speaker 1>Yeah, we've covered this in multiple episodes. We've talked about

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<v Speaker 1>the banning of books. We've talked about librarians being under

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<v Speaker 1>attack where they're even getting death threats. Definitely go through

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<v Speaker 1>our back catalog because this battle is not even close

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<v Speaker 1>to being over, and I don't even think we're in

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<v Speaker 1>the middle of it. This is really just kind of

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<v Speaker 1>the tip of the iceberg. But we hear, okay, they're

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<v Speaker 1>calling us groomers. And when you hear the word groomers,

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<v Speaker 1>I kind of want to what does everybody here think?

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<v Speaker 1>And without kind of straw manning, what do you think

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<v Speaker 1>other people are hearing when they hear about the word groomer? Aaron,

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<v Speaker 1>what do you what are you thinking? Well?

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<v Speaker 3>I think it makes people conjure up images of being

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<v Speaker 3>under attack, especially their children. I had at my communications

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<v Speaker 3>professor in college said, if you can, if you can

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<v Speaker 3>get kids involved in your argument, you've almost always won,

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<v Speaker 3>you know, because because putting kids in danger is really

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<v Speaker 3>gonna get people's fear response going, and they're gonna conjure

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<v Speaker 3>up these scary images of you know, people teaching their

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<v Speaker 3>children things that they don't they don't want to be taught.

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<v Speaker 3>The problem is can't really bring people. You know, people

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<v Speaker 3>are what they are, They're born the way they are.

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<v Speaker 3>You can't really no such thing as groomer. There are

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<v Speaker 3>risk factors that make people more susceptible sexual abuse. From

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<v Speaker 3>up the CDC websites, I saw the risk factors that

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<v Speaker 3>they that they listen are being under the age of

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<v Speaker 3>four and having special needs that may increase caregiver burdens.

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<v Speaker 2>That's it.

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<v Speaker 3>That's what increased the likely that someone's going to be

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<v Speaker 3>a victim of sexual abuse, not what someone's sexuality or.

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<v Speaker 1>I mean, so are we saying that, you know, we

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<v Speaker 1>just don't care about kids. You know that we don't,

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<v Speaker 1>you know, because we're we're allowing the LGBT to kind

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<v Speaker 1>of be what they are. We we are supportive of

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<v Speaker 1>drag shows. Does that mean that we are okay with harm?

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<v Speaker 3>No, absolutely not. We're not okay with harm. What we

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<v Speaker 3>want to do is instead of focusing on, uh, this

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<v Speaker 3>scary thing over here, let's focus on solving the real problem.

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<v Speaker 3>The real problem is we don't want kids to be

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<v Speaker 3>sexually abused, right uh, And reading books isn't going to

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<v Speaker 3>cause doesn't cause people to be sexually abused. Reading books

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<v Speaker 3>doesn't cause someone to become homosexual or lgbt q I

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<v Speaker 3>or any of that. People are born the way they're born.

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<v Speaker 3>Books don't contribute to that. Books have ideas which can

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<v Speaker 3>be very simple this whole Uh. Yeah, so yeah, there

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<v Speaker 3>there are so many better things that we can do

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<v Speaker 3>to keep our kids safe. I'm from that same CDC website.

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<v Speaker 3>They say that the preventive factors that help help us

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<v Speaker 3>prevent sexual abuse and include having them deployed, educated and

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<v Speaker 3>nurturing caregivers, and having good communities that have that provide safe,

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<v Speaker 3>stable housing, high quality preschool, nurturing and safe childcare, safe

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<v Speaker 3>engaging school programs and activities, medical care and mental health services,

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<v Speaker 3>economic and financial health work opportunities, and family friendly policies.

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<v Speaker 3>Instead of banning books, let's get let's start making policies

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<v Speaker 3>that improve people's improve that improve people's parenting skills, parenting abilities,

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<v Speaker 3>and economic conditions.

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<v Speaker 1>And we'll make sure to link that CDC article in

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<v Speaker 1>our notes as well. So why is this message so effective?

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<v Speaker 1>So I get that we're trying to say, hey, we

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<v Speaker 1>want to protect kids, or they want to protect kids,

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<v Speaker 1>but why is the sensationalism so effective? Scott or rich

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<v Speaker 1>who wants to answer that.

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<v Speaker 4>I can step in here. One thing I think we

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<v Speaker 4>need to point out here, though, is that the governor

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<v Speaker 4>of Florida, Ron DeSantis, is running for president basically, or

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<v Speaker 4>he's gearing up for a run for president, and so

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<v Speaker 4>he's trying to Obviously a lot of what he's doing

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<v Speaker 4>here is pandering to the bigotry block. Oh hey, they're

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<v Speaker 4>a bigotry doctor to the bigot block, which is a

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<v Speaker 4>large part of his support base. And so this demonization, uh,

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<v Speaker 4>is it's a tactic. It's a tactic, you know. They

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<v Speaker 4>they frame it as if it were a moral or

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<v Speaker 4>a safety issue. I don't see them warning about people

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<v Speaker 4>going to confession at a Catholic church. I mean, that's

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<v Speaker 4>I don't know.

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<v Speaker 1>Or expecting a two party or two peer system when

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<v Speaker 1>you know a priest is with an ultar boy, which

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<v Speaker 1>you know.

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<v Speaker 4>Right right.

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<v Speaker 1>It's sad that we need we need to even say that,

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<v Speaker 1>But there have been so many cases out there it is.

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<v Speaker 1>It is something you know, don't don't try to put

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<v Speaker 1>out our house while yours is still burning, right.

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<v Speaker 4>Yeah, exactly, And so I mean I think what that illustrates, though,

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<v Speaker 4>is that this is not Obviously they're cheering and warning

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<v Speaker 4>and yelling about the kid's safety, the kid's safety, the

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<v Speaker 4>kid's safety, but not our people, right, but not our people.

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<v Speaker 4>It's only those it's only the people with the d's

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<v Speaker 4>by their name who are going to be grooming grooming

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<v Speaker 4>our kids. And but it's a natural it's a natural

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<v Speaker 4>tactic to use. It's very effective. People are very defensive

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<v Speaker 4>about their kids, and well, it's evolution I mean, it's evolutionary,

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<v Speaker 4>evolutionarily supported. I mean, the parents who did not overreact

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<v Speaker 4>and and hyper protect their kids, the people who didn't

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<v Speaker 4>do that, their kids would be less likely to survive

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<v Speaker 4>and to carry on their DNA. And so so it's

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<v Speaker 4>it's first of all, it's clear that that's why they're

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<v Speaker 4>using it, And second of all, it's clear that that's

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<v Speaker 4>an effective So I don't see why, you know, we

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<v Speaker 4>shouldn't be surprised that this is happening at all. It's

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<v Speaker 4>just it's it's human nature and it's one party taking

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<v Speaker 4>advantage of human nature.

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<v Speaker 1>I wonder if some people think that we might necessarily

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<v Speaker 1>be doing something similar that we are saying, hey, look,

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<v Speaker 1>you know, it's it's terrible that they're forcing a religious

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<v Speaker 1>idea when it's just parents teaching their kids their culture,

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<v Speaker 1>their history, their belief structure. Now, it would be nice

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<v Speaker 1>if they were able to do that within the guise

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<v Speaker 1>of but you can go ahead and make your own decision.

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<v Speaker 1>But I also I kind of wonder if there's if

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<v Speaker 1>some of this pushback could potentially be us saying hey, no, no, no,

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<v Speaker 1>we need to put this out there, we need to

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<v Speaker 1>you know, Oh, if they only just were so we're

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<v Speaker 1>quiet about their homosexuality or their other natures and all that.

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<v Speaker 1>I wonder if they try to say that a little

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<v Speaker 1>bit the same about us, But Rich, what do you think?

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<v Speaker 2>I think that's an interesting point that they will raise that,

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<v Speaker 2>But it's kind of an odd one in that to

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<v Speaker 2>use the UK as an example, In nineteen eighty eight,

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<v Speaker 2>we had something that was called Section twenty eight, Section

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<v Speaker 2>twenty eight of the Local Government Act, and that section

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<v Speaker 2>twenty eight basically made it illegal for local authorities to

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<v Speaker 2>quote promote homosexuality. The problem was nobody knew what on

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<v Speaker 2>earth that meant. I mean, what was promotingosexuality exactly, you know,

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<v Speaker 2>putting posters up saying be gay. I don't know what

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<v Speaker 2>he's supposed to do with this thing. It took twelve

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<v Speaker 2>years for that to be got rid of in our country,

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<v Speaker 2>and it was for every single day. I was there

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<v Speaker 2>fighting it, and I almost fell off a bridge once,

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<v Speaker 2>but that's another story. But it was a moment where

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<v Speaker 2>it was a similar thing. It was a quite right

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<v Speaker 2>wing conservative government who wanted to find a group and

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<v Speaker 2>put a law in that would take a certain section

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<v Speaker 2>of their voters. Definitely definitely vote using a very very

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<v Speaker 2>old tactic, as I mentioned at the beginning during the intro,

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<v Speaker 2>which is to create othering, which is to say, they

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<v Speaker 2>are them, and we are us, and they are transgressors,

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<v Speaker 2>so we don't want to be like them. So those

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<v Speaker 2>people they do these terrible, terrible things. Honest, they do

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<v Speaker 2>these awful things. And the oldest known way of developing

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<v Speaker 2>to a group to demonize. And once you've got a

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<v Speaker 2>group to demon that, you can vote against them. As

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<v Speaker 2>you're saying, there's this kind of I think within the

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<v Speaker 2>minds of a lot of people in certain political sp

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<v Speaker 2>persuasion that the left or where the gays are, and

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<v Speaker 2>that's the LGBTQ plus area on the left, which of

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<v Speaker 2>course isn't true. One of the most controversial Republicans in

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<v Speaker 2>the House right now is gay. So you know, it's

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<v Speaker 2>what are they talking about. But that's kind of a

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<v Speaker 2>picture that's been pain and they're using an old tactic.

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<v Speaker 2>It worked. It worked for Bargat Thatcher, it worked for

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<v Speaker 2>the Nazi Party, it worked for Urban the second when

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<v Speaker 2>he wanted to start the crusade, not against the LGBTQ plus,

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<v Speaker 2>of course, but against those terrible marauding Muslims. It was,

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<v Speaker 2>you know, it's it's a response to kind of couples

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<v Speaker 2>of moral discuss They are a contagion that need to clean.

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<v Speaker 2>I could go onto this forever because this is my topic,

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<v Speaker 2>so I'm not. But it's this kind of idea of othering.

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<v Speaker 2>I'll narrow it down to that. It's othering, and it's

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<v Speaker 2>it's very powerful, and that's why they're doing it. And

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<v Speaker 2>it's not necessary to believe. I mean, it's not just

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<v Speaker 2>by the way books that mention in any way that

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<v Speaker 2>people aren't all heterosexual shocker for the world. Hey, it's

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<v Speaker 2>also books talk about Frederick Douglas and Rosa Parks and

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<v Speaker 2>things like that. What do you talking about history? Why

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<v Speaker 2>can't we have history? Books about history? Something dear to

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<v Speaker 2>my heart? But he's banning it. All I know is

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<v Speaker 2>when people start banning books, worry. That's kind of mine.

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<v Speaker 2>And when it comes to saying to us, are we

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<v Speaker 2>doing the similar thing? Are we just saying no, don't

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<v Speaker 2>you shouldn't be able to teach? Of course we're not.

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<v Speaker 2>They're saying teacher culture or you like, just don't impose it,

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<v Speaker 2>just don't force it on me. And I think he's

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<v Speaker 2>trying to argue that these cultures are being forced on

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<v Speaker 2>kids when they're not. They're just being here's some information.

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<v Speaker 2>Leave it anyway. I could ramble long about othering and

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<v Speaker 2>how this process works for five hours, and I think

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<v Speaker 2>we've got a deadline, have we not?

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<v Speaker 1>So a little bit of one. I mean, we could

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<v Speaker 1>always cross into, uh, you know, the atheist experience, because

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<v Speaker 1>you know who means that. But you should just be

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<v Speaker 1>watching the nonprofits all the time, all the time.

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<v Speaker 3>They don't do the subscribers.

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<v Speaker 4>Yeah, two words flag ship flagship.

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<v Speaker 1>Absolutely absolutely don't ever anybody forget about that. I see

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<v Speaker 1>this a lot like one of the old school schoolyard

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<v Speaker 1>arguments I heard back in the nineties and all that.

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<v Speaker 1>You know, and this might get a little bit offensive,

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<v Speaker 1>where you know, one person goes, you know, are you gay?

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<v Speaker 1>And then they asked, do your parents know you're gay?

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<v Speaker 1>Kind of trying to trip you up in a little

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<v Speaker 1>bit of that, and it's like, you know, are you

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<v Speaker 1>a pedophile groomer? Do your kids know your you are?

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<v Speaker 1>And it's just it's it's so disturbing, so disingenuous, so

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<v Speaker 1>ignoring of any any type of fact or figure about

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<v Speaker 1>what homosexual people are. Anybody within the LGBTQ community, anybody

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<v Speaker 1>who has been to a drag show, who wants to

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<v Speaker 1>do reading. You know, we I mean, we've talked about

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<v Speaker 1>this at nauseum, but Aaron, what what what are you

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<v Speaker 1>thinking on it?

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<v Speaker 3>I really like, uh, doctor Rich's point about othering. That's

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<v Speaker 3>something that I feel strongly about too, because there really

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<v Speaker 3>is no other. We're all part of the human race.

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<v Speaker 3>You know. I don't want to sound naive or you know,

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<v Speaker 3>lovey dovey, but we're all born, we all live our

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<v Speaker 3>lives and we all die, and I think we all

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<v Speaker 3>want the same things. We all want to be loved

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<v Speaker 3>and taken care cared of, right and all we want

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<v Speaker 3>to be seen as human being And the fact that

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<v Speaker 3>there are groups that are being demonized is really sad

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<v Speaker 3>because they're human beings. They have their experiences too, And

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<v Speaker 3>the fact that they can, that these politicians can dig

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<v Speaker 3>into this fear response that we have is well, I

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<v Speaker 3>don't like it. And the reason they can do that

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<v Speaker 3>is because we have this bias. We have the tendency

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<v Speaker 3>in our brains to be scared of something we can

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<v Speaker 3>vividly imagine, right, and we can vividly imagine lots of things,

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<v Speaker 3>vividly imagine terrorist attack. Hence the success of locking down

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<v Speaker 3>and getting rid of our privacy in the early sought

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<v Speaker 3>after nine to eleven, people what was really easy for

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<v Speaker 3>people to imagine terrorist attacks, and so it was really

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<v Speaker 3>easy to get funding and stuff for anti terrorism measures.

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<v Speaker 3>And so guess what the most dangerous thing everybody does

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<v Speaker 3>every day driving your car. Driving your car is the

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<v Speaker 3>most dangerous thing you do every day, but nobody thinks

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<v Speaker 3>about it because it's just so normal and commonplace. But

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<v Speaker 3>you put kids in danger and suddenly people come up

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<v Speaker 3>with all sorts of really scary things in their head.

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<v Speaker 3>Just because it's scary in your head doesn't mean it's

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<v Speaker 3>scary in real life.

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<v Speaker 1>Yeah, we have definitely seen where, especially on the driving

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<v Speaker 1>there was so much pushback when booster seats really became prevalent.

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<v Speaker 1>It's like, well, I'm not gonna put my kid in

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<v Speaker 1>a booster seat. Why would I need to put my

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<v Speaker 1>kid in a boosh seat, you know? And it's because, well,

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<v Speaker 1>the technology of having seat belts and air bags needs

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<v Speaker 1>to kind of put that kid where things are gonna

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<v Speaker 1>be more, we're gonna be safer. Oh, I don't believe that.

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<v Speaker 1>That's just rubbish, And yeah, you really can't get past that.

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<v Speaker 1>It's one of the reasons why straw man arguments are

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<v Speaker 1>so convincing to people, because they're able to convince themselves that, oh,

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<v Speaker 1>you're not human.