Speaker 1: So for our next segment, we are gonna go over
Speaker 1: the new moral panic of grooming. And rich I think
Speaker 1: you're going to be leading us off on this.
Speaker 2: I am well, history is replete. That's one of my
Speaker 2: favorite words. Repleat with examples of people using a moral
Speaker 2: discquoitment something people don't like within their societies to find
Speaker 2: a group of people and demonize it. It's how the
Speaker 2: witch craze has happened. It's how the Nazis gained power
Speaker 2: and got away with what they did. These things happen
Speaker 2: time and time again, and according to Matthew Rosa of
Speaker 2: the Salon, it's happening right now in a good state
Speaker 2: of Florida. Would be Florida, wouldn't it. With God of Ronda,
Speaker 2: Santis is banning his books in public schools, and the
Speaker 2: excuse is he doesn't want people to groom children and
Speaker 2: pedophiles and the people he doesn't want grooming of. Of course,
Speaker 2: the LGTB total these letters for me that plus community
Speaker 2: because obviously obviously not And this is the latest example.
Speaker 2: It's an interesting article, the latest example of how it
Speaker 2: seems to be a go to of right wing parties,
Speaker 2: not just in the US, but beyond and they're doing
Speaker 2: it again, and it's yeah, it is back, it is back,
Speaker 2: and it is in Floyd. So the reason you can't
Speaker 2: get certain books is caused LGBTQ plus people are groomers.
Speaker 2: What say you people?
Speaker 1: Yeah, we've covered this in multiple episodes. We've talked about
Speaker 1: the banning of books. We've talked about librarians being under
Speaker 1: attack where they're even getting death threats. Definitely go through
Speaker 1: our back catalog because this battle is not even close
Speaker 1: to being over, and I don't even think we're in
Speaker 1: the middle of it. This is really just kind of
Speaker 1: the tip of the iceberg. But we hear, okay, they're
Speaker 1: calling us groomers. And when you hear the word groomers,
Speaker 1: I kind of want to what does everybody here think?
Speaker 1: And without kind of straw manning, what do you think
Speaker 1: other people are hearing when they hear about the word groomer? Aaron,
Speaker 1: what do you what are you thinking? Well?
Speaker 3: I think it makes people conjure up images of being
Speaker 3: under attack, especially their children. I had at my communications
Speaker 3: professor in college said, if you can, if you can
Speaker 3: get kids involved in your argument, you've almost always won,
Speaker 3: you know, because because putting kids in danger is really
Speaker 3: gonna get people's fear response going, and they're gonna conjure
Speaker 3: up these scary images of you know, people teaching their
Speaker 3: children things that they don't they don't want to be taught.
Speaker 3: The problem is can't really bring people. You know, people
Speaker 3: are what they are, They're born the way they are.
Speaker 3: You can't really no such thing as groomer. There are
Speaker 3: risk factors that make people more susceptible sexual abuse. From
Speaker 3: up the CDC websites, I saw the risk factors that
Speaker 3: they that they listen are being under the age of
Speaker 3: four and having special needs that may increase caregiver burdens.
Speaker 2: That's it.
Speaker 3: That's what increased the likely that someone's going to be
Speaker 3: a victim of sexual abuse, not what someone's sexuality or.
Speaker 1: I mean, so are we saying that, you know, we
Speaker 1: just don't care about kids. You know that we don't,
Speaker 1: you know, because we're we're allowing the LGBT to kind
Speaker 1: of be what they are. We we are supportive of
Speaker 1: drag shows. Does that mean that we are okay with harm?
Speaker 3: No, absolutely not. We're not okay with harm. What we
Speaker 3: want to do is instead of focusing on, uh, this
Speaker 3: scary thing over here, let's focus on solving the real problem.
Speaker 3: The real problem is we don't want kids to be
Speaker 3: sexually abused, right uh, And reading books isn't going to
Speaker 3: cause doesn't cause people to be sexually abused. Reading books
Speaker 3: doesn't cause someone to become homosexual or lgbt q I
Speaker 3: or any of that. People are born the way they're born.
Speaker 3: Books don't contribute to that. Books have ideas which can
Speaker 3: be very simple this whole Uh. Yeah, so yeah, there
Speaker 3: there are so many better things that we can do
Speaker 3: to keep our kids safe. I'm from that same CDC website.
Speaker 3: They say that the preventive factors that help help us
Speaker 3: prevent sexual abuse and include having them deployed, educated and
Speaker 3: nurturing caregivers, and having good communities that have that provide safe,
Speaker 3: stable housing, high quality preschool, nurturing and safe childcare, safe
Speaker 3: engaging school programs and activities, medical care and mental health services,
Speaker 3: economic and financial health work opportunities, and family friendly policies.
Speaker 3: Instead of banning books, let's get let's start making policies
Speaker 3: that improve people's improve that improve people's parenting skills, parenting abilities,
Speaker 3: and economic conditions.
Speaker 1: And we'll make sure to link that CDC article in
Speaker 1: our notes as well. So why is this message so effective?
Speaker 1: So I get that we're trying to say, hey, we
Speaker 1: want to protect kids, or they want to protect kids,
Speaker 1: but why is the sensationalism so effective? Scott or rich
Speaker 1: who wants to answer that.
Speaker 4: I can step in here. One thing I think we
Speaker 4: need to point out here, though, is that the governor
Speaker 4: of Florida, Ron DeSantis, is running for president basically, or
Speaker 4: he's gearing up for a run for president, and so
Speaker 4: he's trying to Obviously a lot of what he's doing
Speaker 4: here is pandering to the bigotry block. Oh hey, they're
Speaker 4: a bigotry doctor to the bigot block, which is a
Speaker 4: large part of his support base. And so this demonization, uh,
Speaker 4: is it's a tactic. It's a tactic, you know. They
Speaker 4: they frame it as if it were a moral or
Speaker 4: a safety issue. I don't see them warning about people
Speaker 4: going to confession at a Catholic church. I mean, that's
Speaker 4: I don't know.
Speaker 1: Or expecting a two party or two peer system when
Speaker 1: you know a priest is with an ultar boy, which
Speaker 1: you know.
Speaker 4: Right right.
Speaker 1: It's sad that we need we need to even say that,
Speaker 1: But there have been so many cases out there it is.
Speaker 1: It is something you know, don't don't try to put
Speaker 1: out our house while yours is still burning, right.
Speaker 4: Yeah, exactly, And so I mean I think what that illustrates, though,
Speaker 4: is that this is not Obviously they're cheering and warning
Speaker 4: and yelling about the kid's safety, the kid's safety, the
Speaker 4: kid's safety, but not our people, right, but not our people.
Speaker 4: It's only those it's only the people with the d's
Speaker 4: by their name who are going to be grooming grooming
Speaker 4: our kids. And but it's a natural it's a natural
Speaker 4: tactic to use. It's very effective. People are very defensive
Speaker 4: about their kids, and well, it's evolution I mean, it's evolutionary,
Speaker 4: evolutionarily supported. I mean, the parents who did not overreact
Speaker 4: and and hyper protect their kids, the people who didn't
Speaker 4: do that, their kids would be less likely to survive
Speaker 4: and to carry on their DNA. And so so it's
Speaker 4: it's first of all, it's clear that that's why they're
Speaker 4: using it, And second of all, it's clear that that's
Speaker 4: an effective So I don't see why, you know, we
Speaker 4: shouldn't be surprised that this is happening at all. It's
Speaker 4: just it's it's human nature and it's one party taking
Speaker 4: advantage of human nature.
Speaker 1: I wonder if some people think that we might necessarily
Speaker 1: be doing something similar that we are saying, hey, look,
Speaker 1: you know, it's it's terrible that they're forcing a religious
Speaker 1: idea when it's just parents teaching their kids their culture,
Speaker 1: their history, their belief structure. Now, it would be nice
Speaker 1: if they were able to do that within the guise
Speaker 1: of but you can go ahead and make your own decision.
Speaker 1: But I also I kind of wonder if there's if
Speaker 1: some of this pushback could potentially be us saying hey, no, no, no,
Speaker 1: we need to put this out there, we need to
Speaker 1: you know, Oh, if they only just were so we're
Speaker 1: quiet about their homosexuality or their other natures and all that.
Speaker 1: I wonder if they try to say that a little
Speaker 1: bit the same about us, But Rich, what do you think?
Speaker 2: I think that's an interesting point that they will raise that,
Speaker 2: But it's kind of an odd one in that to
Speaker 2: use the UK as an example, In nineteen eighty eight,
Speaker 2: we had something that was called Section twenty eight, Section
Speaker 2: twenty eight of the Local Government Act, and that section
Speaker 2: twenty eight basically made it illegal for local authorities to
Speaker 2: quote promote homosexuality. The problem was nobody knew what on
Speaker 2: earth that meant. I mean, what was promotingosexuality exactly, you know,
Speaker 2: putting posters up saying be gay. I don't know what
Speaker 2: he's supposed to do with this thing. It took twelve
Speaker 2: years for that to be got rid of in our country,
Speaker 2: and it was for every single day. I was there
Speaker 2: fighting it, and I almost fell off a bridge once,
Speaker 2: but that's another story. But it was a moment where
Speaker 2: it was a similar thing. It was a quite right
Speaker 2: wing conservative government who wanted to find a group and
Speaker 2: put a law in that would take a certain section
Speaker 2: of their voters. Definitely definitely vote using a very very
Speaker 2: old tactic, as I mentioned at the beginning during the intro,
Speaker 2: which is to create othering, which is to say, they
Speaker 2: are them, and we are us, and they are transgressors,
Speaker 2: so we don't want to be like them. So those
Speaker 2: people they do these terrible, terrible things. Honest, they do
Speaker 2: these awful things. And the oldest known way of developing
Speaker 2: to a group to demonize. And once you've got a
Speaker 2: group to demon that, you can vote against them. As
Speaker 2: you're saying, there's this kind of I think within the
Speaker 2: minds of a lot of people in certain political sp
Speaker 2: persuasion that the left or where the gays are, and
Speaker 2: that's the LGBTQ plus area on the left, which of
Speaker 2: course isn't true. One of the most controversial Republicans in
Speaker 2: the House right now is gay. So you know, it's
Speaker 2: what are they talking about. But that's kind of a
Speaker 2: picture that's been pain and they're using an old tactic.
Speaker 2: It worked. It worked for Bargat Thatcher, it worked for
Speaker 2: the Nazi Party, it worked for Urban the second when
Speaker 2: he wanted to start the crusade, not against the LGBTQ plus,
Speaker 2: of course, but against those terrible marauding Muslims. It was,
Speaker 2: you know, it's it's a response to kind of couples
Speaker 2: of moral discuss They are a contagion that need to clean.
Speaker 2: I could go onto this forever because this is my topic,
Speaker 2: so I'm not. But it's this kind of idea of othering.
Speaker 2: I'll narrow it down to that. It's othering, and it's
Speaker 2: it's very powerful, and that's why they're doing it. And
Speaker 2: it's not necessary to believe. I mean, it's not just
Speaker 2: by the way books that mention in any way that
Speaker 2: people aren't all heterosexual shocker for the world. Hey, it's
Speaker 2: also books talk about Frederick Douglas and Rosa Parks and
Speaker 2: things like that. What do you talking about history? Why
Speaker 2: can't we have history? Books about history? Something dear to
Speaker 2: my heart? But he's banning it. All I know is
Speaker 2: when people start banning books, worry. That's kind of mine.
Speaker 2: And when it comes to saying to us, are we
Speaker 2: doing the similar thing? Are we just saying no, don't
Speaker 2: you shouldn't be able to teach? Of course we're not.
Speaker 2: They're saying teacher culture or you like, just don't impose it,
Speaker 2: just don't force it on me. And I think he's
Speaker 2: trying to argue that these cultures are being forced on
Speaker 2: kids when they're not. They're just being here's some information.
Speaker 2: Leave it anyway. I could ramble long about othering and
Speaker 2: how this process works for five hours, and I think
Speaker 2: we've got a deadline, have we not?
Speaker 1: So a little bit of one. I mean, we could
Speaker 1: always cross into, uh, you know, the atheist experience, because
Speaker 1: you know who means that. But you should just be
Speaker 1: watching the nonprofits all the time, all the time.
Speaker 3: They don't do the subscribers.
Speaker 4: Yeah, two words flag ship flagship.
Speaker 1: Absolutely absolutely don't ever anybody forget about that. I see
Speaker 1: this a lot like one of the old school schoolyard
Speaker 1: arguments I heard back in the nineties and all that.
Speaker 1: You know, and this might get a little bit offensive,
Speaker 1: where you know, one person goes, you know, are you gay?
Speaker 1: And then they asked, do your parents know you're gay?
Speaker 1: Kind of trying to trip you up in a little
Speaker 1: bit of that, and it's like, you know, are you
Speaker 1: a pedophile groomer? Do your kids know your you are?
Speaker 1: And it's just it's it's so disturbing, so disingenuous, so
Speaker 1: ignoring of any any type of fact or figure about
Speaker 1: what homosexual people are. Anybody within the LGBTQ community, anybody
Speaker 1: who has been to a drag show, who wants to
Speaker 1: do reading. You know, we I mean, we've talked about
Speaker 1: this at nauseum, but Aaron, what what what are you
Speaker 1: thinking on it?
Speaker 3: I really like, uh, doctor Rich's point about othering. That's
Speaker 3: something that I feel strongly about too, because there really
Speaker 3: is no other. We're all part of the human race.
Speaker 3: You know. I don't want to sound naive or you know,
Speaker 3: lovey dovey, but we're all born, we all live our
Speaker 3: lives and we all die, and I think we all
Speaker 3: want the same things. We all want to be loved
Speaker 3: and taken care cared of, right and all we want
Speaker 3: to be seen as human being And the fact that
Speaker 3: there are groups that are being demonized is really sad
Speaker 3: because they're human beings. They have their experiences too, And
Speaker 3: the fact that they can, that these politicians can dig
Speaker 3: into this fear response that we have is well, I
Speaker 3: don't like it. And the reason they can do that
Speaker 3: is because we have this bias. We have the tendency
Speaker 3: in our brains to be scared of something we can
Speaker 3: vividly imagine, right, and we can vividly imagine lots of things,
Speaker 3: vividly imagine terrorist attack. Hence the success of locking down
Speaker 3: and getting rid of our privacy in the early sought
Speaker 3: after nine to eleven, people what was really easy for
Speaker 3: people to imagine terrorist attacks, and so it was really
Speaker 3: easy to get funding and stuff for anti terrorism measures.
Speaker 3: And so guess what the most dangerous thing everybody does
Speaker 3: every day driving your car. Driving your car is the
Speaker 3: most dangerous thing you do every day, but nobody thinks
Speaker 3: about it because it's just so normal and commonplace. But
Speaker 3: you put kids in danger and suddenly people come up
Speaker 3: with all sorts of really scary things in their head.
Speaker 3: Just because it's scary in your head doesn't mean it's
Speaker 3: scary in real life.
Speaker 1: Yeah, we have definitely seen where, especially on the driving
Speaker 1: there was so much pushback when booster seats really became prevalent.
Speaker 1: It's like, well, I'm not gonna put my kid in
Speaker 1: a booster seat. Why would I need to put my
Speaker 1: kid in a boosh seat, you know? And it's because, well,
Speaker 1: the technology of having seat belts and air bags needs
Speaker 1: to kind of put that kid where things are gonna
Speaker 1: be more, we're gonna be safer. Oh, I don't believe that.
Speaker 1: That's just rubbish, And yeah, you really can't get past that.
Speaker 1: It's one of the reasons why straw man arguments are
Speaker 1: so convincing to people, because they're able to convince themselves that, oh,
Speaker 1: you're not human.