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<v Speaker 1>All right, I'm back from Turkey. It's been a blast,

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<v Speaker 1>and it's time to reconnect. I was thinking of we

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<v Speaker 1>had some people on the tour that I had known

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<v Speaker 1>for a number of years, and one of them. A

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<v Speaker 1>couple of people were asking what's going on with Jindale?

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<v Speaker 1>And Jen is, of course busy doing her own thing,

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<v Speaker 1>but I have her back on the program. It's been

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<v Speaker 1>a while since we had our in house archaeologists on

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<v Speaker 1>the program, so I wanted to check in and say, hey, Jen,

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<v Speaker 1>hey going on.

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<v Speaker 2>Oh, you know, summer's at its end and prepping for

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<v Speaker 2>the fall, pepping for the winter in the old weather.

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<v Speaker 1>Did you grow any any produce or any flowers or

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<v Speaker 1>anything during the summer.

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<v Speaker 2>Oh my gosh, I grew so much. I did.

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<v Speaker 1>I don't mean cannabis, I mean.

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<v Speaker 2>I did. I grew my own heirloom tomatoes and I

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<v Speaker 2>ripped out a bunch of grass and just rewilded it rewilded.

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<v Speaker 1>Heirloom tomatoes are are those are the ones that are

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<v Speaker 1>like for good for canning, or just so you actually

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<v Speaker 1>can too.

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<v Speaker 2>I do, I can and freeze. You know. Heirlooms are

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<v Speaker 2>those ugly tomatoes that everyone sees and they're like, oh,

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<v Speaker 2>that looks terrible, but.

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<v Speaker 1>They they taste really good. Yeah, and they have a

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<v Speaker 1>thinner skin too, so you're not chewing on the scan though.

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<v Speaker 2>That's true. That is very true.

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<v Speaker 1>All right, So only tomatoes. You didn't do any kind

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<v Speaker 1>of other vegetable then, huh?

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<v Speaker 2>You know I didn't because I was so busy. I

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<v Speaker 2>renovated a house. My mom lives here with us now,

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<v Speaker 2>and I want to do enjoy a little bit of

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<v Speaker 2>this summer, so my garden took a back seat. I

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<v Speaker 2>have a ginormous blueberry patch, so harvested tons of blueberries, blackberries, strawberries.

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<v Speaker 1>Those are running wild on the property, right. They're not

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<v Speaker 1>something you planted.

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<v Speaker 2>The previous owner probably planted like ten bushes and they

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<v Speaker 2>just grew exponentially. So now I've got this great berry patch.

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<v Speaker 1>Oh my god, well wild berries. We should mention that

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<v Speaker 1>you're now living in Vermont, and are you on, like

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<v Speaker 1>it four acres or something.

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<v Speaker 3>I'm on eight acres and eight acres well that's a

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<v Speaker 3>big people.

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<v Speaker 2>Yeah, yeah, that's pretty nice.

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<v Speaker 1>It's one of those situations where you need to actually

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<v Speaker 1>get a tractor.

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<v Speaker 2>Right, Yeah, I've we have a couple of four wheelers

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<v Speaker 2>that we use here.

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<v Speaker 1>You living the country life now, which is kind of cool, fantastic,

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<v Speaker 1>great to see. I want to mention that there were

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<v Speaker 1>a couple of museums that I thought of you. One

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<v Speaker 1>was the Istanbul Historical Museum that had these wonderful sculptures,

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<v Speaker 1>these Roman sculptures that were gorgeous because the Romans were

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<v Speaker 1>there in the Istanbul for for many years. But they

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<v Speaker 1>also had and I posted this, they had a sculpture

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<v Speaker 1>of Best, the god Best, a huge sculpture. He must

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<v Speaker 1>have waited several hundred times. And I wrote about this

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<v Speaker 1>and I was like, what the hell's Best doing in

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<v Speaker 1>Turkey because he's an Egyptian god. So there's some strange

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<v Speaker 1>history there that we don't know about, kind of weird and.

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<v Speaker 2>Has some crossover. I think that there's a lot of

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<v Speaker 2>that that happens. I mean, even if you think about,

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<v Speaker 2>you know, how the Roman gods are really just you know,

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<v Speaker 2>borrowings from all of these other pantheons, and that they excited.

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<v Speaker 1>Yeah, they immortalized the Greeks. I mean the museums also Goebecy,

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<v Speaker 1>Teppy and Krahan and Teppee were fabulous. They're just very

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<v Speaker 1>sophisticated it's almost like they're the the curators have been

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<v Speaker 1>educated in some school that we don't know about what

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<v Speaker 1>we've done.

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<v Speaker 2>Absolutely, they're reproductions of I mean the megaliths like blow

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<v Speaker 2>my mind, and the reproductions of uh, you know, some

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<v Speaker 2>of that stone work. You can really see the detail

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<v Speaker 2>where you can't see it in the authentic stone stone work.

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<v Speaker 2>I am like floored by that stuff for sure.

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<v Speaker 1>Yeah. It's really a worthwhile trip. So hopefully we'll go

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<v Speaker 1>back to Turkey one of these days. All right, well,

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<v Speaker 1>let's talk about what some of your interests are. You

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<v Speaker 1>sent me an article on on the glaciers that are

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<v Speaker 1>melting in northern Europe, most notably Norway and what's being revealed.

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<v Speaker 1>This is cool. In fact, it's funny because you were saying,

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<v Speaker 1>they're telling people who are like hiking, be careful, stay

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<v Speaker 1>away from stay on the trail, and don't touch anything,

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<v Speaker 1>which I think is kind of funny. Talk about this.

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<v Speaker 2>Yeah, I mean, this is kind of amazing. The reason

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<v Speaker 2>I pulled this out is because I'm an avid hiker

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<v Speaker 2>and I can only imagine what it would be like

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<v Speaker 2>to come upon, you know, like some Bronze age weapon

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<v Speaker 2>or implement that was being used, and that's kind of

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<v Speaker 2>what happened in this article in Norway. So people were

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<v Speaker 2>out looking around and hiking around and they came upon

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<v Speaker 2>these this artifact called or artifacts called scar sticks, and

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<v Speaker 2>basically they're just bundles of wooden sticks tied together with

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<v Speaker 2>like birch bark, and they were used by ancient hunters

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<v Speaker 2>to frighten wild rain deer and guide them towards the

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<v Speaker 2>hunting areas. So they're these really ingenious ways that early

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<v Speaker 2>hunters were trapping their dinner essentially, and now they're finding

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<v Speaker 2>you know, they probably dropped them in place and you know,

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<v Speaker 2>got said reindeer and you know, snow came, glacier moved

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<v Speaker 2>in and they were recovered. Well, I think what's going

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<v Speaker 2>to start happening a great deal more, especially as the

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<v Speaker 2>glaciers are receding, is we're going to see so many

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<v Speaker 2>artifacts reveal themselves. And the really I guess the thing

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<v Speaker 2>that caught my eye was that the government is now saying,

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<v Speaker 2>if you see a melting snow drift, make sure that

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<v Speaker 2>if there's an artifact that's you know, emerging, leave it

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<v Speaker 2>in place, leave it there and call the archaeology.

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<v Speaker 1>Isn't that call like leaving it in C two you know, yeah,

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<v Speaker 1>which is untouched, unexcavated, undocumented, I guess, right.

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<v Speaker 2>Yeah, And that's just it. They want to document where

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<v Speaker 2>these they're finding, these implements, these artifacts, so that you know,

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<v Speaker 2>you've you've got provenience on these things, you've got a

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<v Speaker 2>mapped location of where it was found, because the likelihood

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<v Speaker 2>of finding other items in these areas is very high.

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<v Speaker 2>I mean, these are well trafficked areas. These are areas

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<v Speaker 2>that are still being used pretty consistently skien.

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<v Speaker 1>In these areas or are they hiking trails or both?

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<v Speaker 2>Well, I mean I think it's both, because you know

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<v Speaker 2>they're they're talking about, you know, in cold conditions, you

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<v Speaker 2>can still find these things because our winters, especially in

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<v Speaker 2>western Europe, northwestern Europe, have been much warmer than they

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<v Speaker 2>have been in previous years. And as you see, like

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<v Speaker 2>you know, think of places like Siberia as the permafrost melts.

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<v Speaker 2>I mean, they're already pulling out mammoths and dire wools

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<v Speaker 2>and all sorts of megafauna that they hadn't intended ever

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<v Speaker 2>seeing again. And the crazy thing is the tissue is

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<v Speaker 2>just so pristine. It's been kept so well in that

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<v Speaker 2>cold environment. I'm really interested in it because on a

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<v Speaker 2>on a testing level, whether you know they're testing DNA,

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<v Speaker 2>soil DNA, there are some really cool things that could

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<v Speaker 2>come from all of these cold or freezing area items

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<v Speaker 2>that are being found, artifacts that are being found.

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<v Speaker 1>How how much of these glaciers is melting like must

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<v Speaker 1>be major. It's massive footage of you know, like maybe

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<v Speaker 1>ten feet shrinks down to few in I.

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<v Speaker 2>Mean, it's it's a little shocking what glacial recession is

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<v Speaker 2>looking like in northwestern Europe right now. Even if you

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<v Speaker 2>think about what you know glacial recession is looking like

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<v Speaker 2>in anti Arctica Alaska, It's it's fairly exponential right now.

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<v Speaker 2>What's going on? So unfortunately their.

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<v Speaker 1>Hygiene somewhere and there's like the the protrusion of a

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<v Speaker 1>foundation or something. It's like they need to stay away

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<v Speaker 1>from that, right Yeah.

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<v Speaker 2>I mean your best bet is document it with your GPS,

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<v Speaker 2>you know, mark it on your phone. If you've got

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<v Speaker 2>really good service wherever it is that you're hiking, and

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<v Speaker 2>you send the ac coordinates to an archaeologist and sure

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<v Speaker 2>that they can grab it, you're making.

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<v Speaker 1>A really good point. Jen. If someone goes up into

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<v Speaker 1>those mountainous areas and comes across some artifacts or or

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<v Speaker 1>the remains of a building or something like that. They

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<v Speaker 1>need to they need to track it, and they need

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<v Speaker 1>to post.

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<v Speaker 2>It, right absolutely.

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<v Speaker 1>I mean, are they suggesting that in the in the article.

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<v Speaker 2>No, I mean, I wouldn't post it on like social

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<v Speaker 2>media because you'll get some knucklehead that comes and tries

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<v Speaker 2>to steal it, you know what I mean. I wouldn't

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<v Speaker 2>do that, but I would definitely take a GPS coordinate

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<v Speaker 2>of it. Coordinates are going to be really important, especially,

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<v Speaker 2>I mean, it's it's water, it's glaciers, it's you know,

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<v Speaker 2>scree rock fall and stuff like that. So it could

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<v Speaker 2>move just slightly, but I think it is important to

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<v Speaker 2>document it and the hikers, skiers, people that are out

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<v Speaker 2>on the trails that they're you know, they're being respectful,

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<v Speaker 2>I guess, is the best way to put it.

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<v Speaker 1>I love that. It's very cool. Okay, let's move on.

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<v Speaker 1>There's another article that you submitted to me, which is

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<v Speaker 1>a new hominine bone, which are these hobbits, and these

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<v Speaker 1>are human beings are a branch of hominin human that

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<v Speaker 1>lived tens of thousands of years ago, but they're perfect

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<v Speaker 1>in size, but they're just really weird. What did we discover?

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<v Speaker 1>What do they? What were they?

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<v Speaker 2>I am so over the moon about this story. So

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<v Speaker 2>the Hobbits of Flores is what they're calling. And you

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<v Speaker 2>know they they used to We've known about these folks

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<v Speaker 2>for a little while. But the reason that this is

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<v Speaker 2>so big is because it is a new adult armbone.

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<v Speaker 2>It's peg to be roughly seven hundred thousand years old.

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<v Speaker 1>Say it again, they find it.

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<v Speaker 2>They found this in Indonesia, on the island of Flores.

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<v Speaker 1>Okay, that's why I thought.

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<v Speaker 2>Okay, okay, So it's extremely tiny. That's that's okay number one.

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<v Speaker 2>But again, seven hundred thousand years old, that's that's pretty

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<v Speaker 2>dang old.

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<v Speaker 1>Give us a hint of what they think. The total

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<v Speaker 1>site was like a three point five foot human.

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<v Speaker 2>Well, the humorous bone is nine to sixteen percent shorter

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<v Speaker 2>and thinner than specimens dated at sixty thousand years ago.

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<v Speaker 2>So what does that tell us that they grew? Oh,

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<v Speaker 2>they got bigger. Yeah, so and you know you kind

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<v Speaker 2>of see their terminus around that sixty thousand year point.

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<v Speaker 2>So seven hundred thousand to sixty thousand, that's a really

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<v Speaker 2>big window a really big window. As far as how

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<v Speaker 2>diminutive these folks were, they were pretty small. You're maybe

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<v Speaker 2>looking it around. From what I can tell, and I mean,

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<v Speaker 2>don't quote me on this, I'd say around three feet

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<v Speaker 2>tall around there, a really light body size. So these

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<v Speaker 2>this this person was very small, very acclimated to their environment.

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<v Speaker 2>That's the best way I can say it. And Okay,

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<v Speaker 2>so this is the other thing I'm going to say

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<v Speaker 2>about this. These folks are island dwellers. So what does

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<v Speaker 2>that tell you? If if this early human got to

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<v Speaker 2>an Indonesian island, it means that they had some grasp

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<v Speaker 2>of some maritime technology, whether they're you know, building small

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<v Speaker 2>little boats to go from island to island, from mainland

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<v Speaker 2>to mainland, whatever that might be. But again, what what

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<v Speaker 2>is you know? I'm a crazy maritime technology person. I'm

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<v Speaker 2>always looking for the maritime technology, and for me, this

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<v Speaker 2>early human find just speaks to that, that knowledge of

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<v Speaker 2>the ocean, that knowledge of seapairing.

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<v Speaker 1>Yeah, let me ask you. In the photograph they show

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<v Speaker 1>somewhat ape like the face of this hominin. Do they

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<v Speaker 1>have an actual skull of one of these hobbit people?

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<v Speaker 2>Not? To my knowledge, I don't think that they I

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<v Speaker 2>don't think they do.

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<v Speaker 1>Yeah, so this we don't have. That's just what drives

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<v Speaker 1>me nuts about these guys. They create a face from

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<v Speaker 1>an ape line creature just because it's so old. They

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<v Speaker 1>you know, could it be looking like a Homo sapien

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<v Speaker 1>sapient cranium? We don't know.

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<v Speaker 2>I mean, as far as we know now, who even knows.

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<v Speaker 2>I mean, there's there's no way is this is a

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<v Speaker 2>bit of a leap.

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<v Speaker 1>And it looks like leep.

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<v Speaker 2>Yeah, I mean I think we can make certain, you know,

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<v Speaker 2>assumptions like this was probably a darker skinned person and

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<v Speaker 2>that you know, they were very adapted to their environment.

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<v Speaker 2>So that's kind of what I would go off of.

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<v Speaker 1>I think someone someone took a little too much license

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<v Speaker 1>on here. I had the same problem when we were

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<v Speaker 1>in Turkey. They had reproductions of what they believe were

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<v Speaker 1>the Gobecley Tepee human beings and they look like cavement.

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<v Speaker 1>They had bear skins on, and they had long hair

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<v Speaker 1>and they look brutish. I'm like, well, do we know

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<v Speaker 1>they've never found a skeleton in that area, so they're

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<v Speaker 1>assuming this is what they look like.

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<v Speaker 2>Let's just disagree from you know, those t shaped pillars.

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<v Speaker 2>You'd think that the folks that were there were pretty

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<v Speaker 2>well dressed.

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<v Speaker 1>I mean, yeah.

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<v Speaker 2>The reason why I say that is, you know, they've

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<v Speaker 2>got that fox pelt down the front a belt. Yeah,

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<v Speaker 2>they've got some sort of tunic that presumes that they

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<v Speaker 2>were making, you know, some sort of clothing or something

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<v Speaker 2>that looked like a piece of clothing. So yeah, that

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<v Speaker 2>that's a that's a bad rendering. I would think I would.

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<v Speaker 1>I kept asking everywhere we went in uh, Turkey, has

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<v Speaker 1>a skeletal remain been found? Have any?

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<v Speaker 3>No?

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<v Speaker 2>They just not at that side. I mean that's not true.

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<v Speaker 2>They've found portions of cremation, so like inhumation cremation, but

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<v Speaker 2>those are like tiny pieces of bone, so there would

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<v Speaker 2>be no way to make that kind of a determination.

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<v Speaker 1>You know the same thing with this high it it's

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<v Speaker 1>like they're assuming that because it's so old, it must

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<v Speaker 1>be part you know, animal.

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<v Speaker 2>Yeah. I mean it's so hard to say because I

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<v Speaker 2>think they kind of just lumped it in with all

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<v Speaker 2>early humans and how they perceive how folks that are

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<v Speaker 2>doing these types of reproductions and renderings perceive that. And

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<v Speaker 2>isn't that such an antiquated idea? I mean, don't get

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<v Speaker 2>me started on Neanderthal. You know how I feel about that.

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<v Speaker 1>I know, I'm just saying that, you know, we don't

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<v Speaker 1>have enough bones. It's like some other hominins. We have

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<v Speaker 1>a finger of them and all of a sudden, fingerbone

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<v Speaker 1>of Denisovan begnificent, and all of a sudden they're huge,

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<v Speaker 1>eight foot tall monsters. It's like, how do you come

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<v Speaker 1>up with that from a finger bone? Yeah, I mean

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<v Speaker 1>I should say I should be careful because that's the

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<v Speaker 1>that's the alternative theory. People like Andrew Collins are like

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<v Speaker 1>they're they're huge, huge, a hulk like bees of like

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<v Speaker 1>will you give you this?

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<v Speaker 2>Yeah? I think there are a lot of assertions that

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<v Speaker 2>are made and I think that they're if if we

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<v Speaker 2>could see folks teeth, I think that that would be

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<v Speaker 2>a good indicator of you know, uh, cranium, your your cranium.

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<v Speaker 1>They have a molar of replacement. Yeah, they have a

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<v Speaker 1>molar of a beneficent and it's huge. So yeah, there's

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<v Speaker 1>more specula.

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<v Speaker 2>Well, and I would even say I would okay, so

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<v Speaker 2>let me take that one step further. You can have

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<v Speaker 2>big teeth, like I'm one of those people who have

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<v Speaker 2>big molars I do. I have a special type of

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<v Speaker 2>molar that most people don't have. There's so much diversity

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<v Speaker 2>in humans there just is, you know what I mean.

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<v Speaker 2>And early humans there's probably three million times more diversity

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<v Speaker 2>because there were a bunch of them walking around at

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<v Speaker 2>any given time.

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<v Speaker 1>Yeah, we should give the scientists who are the curators

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<v Speaker 1>who place these various hominin on display a break because

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<v Speaker 1>they're doing the best guess work they can.

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<v Speaker 2>They are, they are, Let's cut them a break. Let's

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<v Speaker 2>let's let's let them off the hook.

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<v Speaker 1>Unfortunately, the National Geographic and the Smithsonian magazines pick it

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<v Speaker 1>up and go, this is it, this is who they are,

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<v Speaker 1>this is it. Accept it. I'm like, oh, hey, really

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<v Speaker 1>great to have you. Let's let's get you back on

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<v Speaker 1>and more power to you as the fall months approach.

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<v Speaker 2>You got it, Cliff, Good to be here with you, all.

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<v Speaker 1>Right, Take care, Jim, see you, Cliff. It's always good

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<v Speaker 1>to have Gin on the program. It's been a while

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<v Speaker 1>since we've connected, and I wanted to check in with her,

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<v Speaker 1>and I think you most of you remember her from

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<v Speaker 1>other programs and so always fun to talk with her.

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<v Speaker 1>Today's program is with Robert Temple He has written a

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<v Speaker 1>new book called The Greek Pyramids, The Myth That Was Real,

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<v Speaker 1>and this is a fascinating look at actual pyramids. There

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<v Speaker 1>are five great pyramids in Greece during antiquity, and he

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<v Speaker 1>has traced down and tracked three that are known, and

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<v Speaker 1>today there's only two left. So this is a very

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<v Speaker 1>important interview. And we also learn about a testing technique

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<v Speaker 1>that can date this stone work of this it's called

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<v Speaker 1>thermal luminescence. We're going to learn about this technique and

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<v Speaker 1>why it's coming around and becoming more important for not

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<v Speaker 1>only existing sites, but new discoveries in the world of

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<v Speaker 1>stone masonry. We can begin testing it. So today's program

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<v Speaker 1>is the Pyramids of Greece and my guest is Professor

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<v Speaker 1>Robert Temple. Each year we support a number of different conferences.

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<v Speaker 1>We have a new one out by megal Lithomania that's

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<v Speaker 1>Hugh Newman's production. It's called Origins. It is scheduled for

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<v Speaker 1>November two. It's a full day, it's ten am to

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<v Speaker 1>seven pm, and we're going to learn a little more

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<v Speaker 1>about it. Anything having to do with megal Lithumania is

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<v Speaker 1>a must see simply because we're talking about a group

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<v Speaker 1>of presenters who are noted authors, noted research investigators, and

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<v Speaker 1>people who are in the know, meaning that they are

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<v Speaker 1>either digging or excavating or they are part of the

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<v Speaker 1>research material that is coming out from these sites. So

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<v Speaker 1>we have the producer with us right now, and that's

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<v Speaker 1>the old, the one and only Hugh new Men with

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<v Speaker 1>us to talk a little bit about it. So, Hey,

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<v Speaker 1>how are you doing, buddy.

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<v Speaker 4>Thanks Cliff, Great to see you again. I hope all

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<v Speaker 4>was going well where you are. Yeah, we're all set

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<v Speaker 4>for the Origins Conference. We've got lots going on during

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<v Speaker 4>the conference and beyond that of course.

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<v Speaker 1>So what's the theme of the Origins What was the

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<v Speaker 1>purpose in creating that over the as a secondary conference.

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<v Speaker 4>Well, we originally founded it back in twenty thirteen with

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<v Speaker 4>my good friend and colleague Andrew Collins, and we really

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<v Speaker 4>felt that London at the time needed an ancient mysteries conference.

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<v Speaker 4>I mean, we do Megalithumania obviously in Glastonbury every May.

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<v Speaker 4>We want to do something towards the end of the

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<v Speaker 4>year early November like Sam Hayn time, you know, Halloween time,

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<v Speaker 4>and we set it up. We run it in London.

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<v Speaker 4>London for many years really pushing back to the origins

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<v Speaker 4>of civilization, especially because of Quebec, Lee Teppe and Carahan

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<v Speaker 4>Tepe and things like that. But also we get into

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<v Speaker 4>like you know, Mesolithic Paleolithic kind of theories. We have

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<v Speaker 4>a mixture of academics and alternative researchers really just try

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<v Speaker 4>and kind of question what was going on, you know,

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<v Speaker 4>ten thousands or tens of thousands of years ago.

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<v Speaker 1>Okay, give us your lineup and give us a hint

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<v Speaker 1>as to who they are. Is Andrew Collins going to

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<v Speaker 1>be part of the group. He's always part of it.

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<v Speaker 4>He was part of the founding of Origins Conference, so

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<v Speaker 4>he comes every year. And we have obviously Andrew is

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<v Speaker 4>going to be speaking about his new book about Carahan Tepe,

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<v Speaker 4>also some new research he's planning for a book on

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<v Speaker 4>Stonehenge as well. And also we have Robin heath is

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<v Speaker 4>just confirmed. He's like a prolific author from West Wales

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<v Speaker 4>who's done some of the breakthrough stuff on the cosmology

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<v Speaker 4>of Stonehenge and the British you know, megalithic culture, working

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<v Speaker 4>on a geodyssey and the measurements and the remark He

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<v Speaker 4>worked with John mish Shell as well for a very

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<v Speaker 4>long time musil and the found one of the co

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<v Speaker 4>founders of megalith Mania, really so delighted his company. He's

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<v Speaker 4>also running the tour we do on the Sunday around Avebury,

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<v Speaker 4>so obviously we've got him and Andrew the kind of keynotes.

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<v Speaker 4>And then we have Caroline Wise. She's coming in from London.

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<v Speaker 4>She's an expert on ancient goddess cults all around the

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<v Speaker 4>world and she's looking going back into the Mesolithic and

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<v Speaker 4>Paleolithic kind of goddess cults from this kind of ear

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<v Speaker 4>especially looking at their artworks.

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<v Speaker 1>And also have.

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<v Speaker 4>Very special guest John F. White, who's going to be

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<v Speaker 4>looking the very very ancient origin of mythology, going back

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<v Speaker 4>hundreds of thousands of years in some cases. He does

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<v Speaker 4>the Cregnford YouTube channel. He's brilliant. I mean we've been

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<v Speaker 4>following his Me and Jay have been following his work

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<v Speaker 4>for you for a few years and thought, God, we've

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<v Speaker 4>got to invite him. He's perfect for origins. We've got

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<v Speaker 4>Simon Banton coming in. He's lucky astronomer and he does

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<v Speaker 4>all the cutting edge discoveries and research around Stonehenge and

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<v Speaker 4>the ancient landscape of this part of the world and

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<v Speaker 4>myself and JJ Ainsworth are going to be covering all

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<v Speaker 4>the latest from Carahan Tepe, Beckley Teppe, the Tastebola culture.

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<v Speaker 4>JJ is going to focus on the symbolism and the

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<v Speaker 4>cosmology was I'm going to be looking at what was

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<v Speaker 4>going on before go Beckley Tepe, you know, two or

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<v Speaker 4>three thousand years leading up to when Gebecley Tepe suddenly

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<v Speaker 4>exploded at the end of the last ice Age. Because

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<v Speaker 4>people always say that there's such go Beckley Teppe came

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<v Speaker 4>out of nowhere. Well we've got good evidence now with

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<v Speaker 4>some of the sites, some of the actually visited ourselves,

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<v Speaker 4>of a kind of progress coming up to that point

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<v Speaker 4>through the Ice Age and then really peaking and different

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<v Speaker 4>groups coming together at the time of Cabeckley Teppe and

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<v Speaker 4>Carahan Tepe. So they're the main speakers. We're going to

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<v Speaker 4>have a few other guests turning up and saying little

401
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<v Speaker 4>things and yeah, it's going to be it's gonna be

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<v Speaker 4>a good event. Live at the conference itself, you know

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<v Speaker 4>in Pewsey Wiltshire or obviously we do you know, got

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<v Speaker 4>it all on live stream which is archive that people

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<v Speaker 4>can watch it as well.

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<v Speaker 1>Okay, so if you get there in person. What is

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<v Speaker 1>the fee and give us the web link so people

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<v Speaker 1>can go and read more about it.

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<v Speaker 4>Yeah, to get you know, the main conference in British pounds.

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<v Speaker 4>This is if you just turn up, you know, you

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<v Speaker 4>want to book a ticket to us. It's currently fifty

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<v Speaker 4>five pounds just for the day and there's another twenty

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<v Speaker 4>five for the tour, or we do a deal for both.

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<v Speaker 1>You know.

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<v Speaker 4>The live stream is only thirty five pounds, which for

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<v Speaker 4>those from America, and that's about forty five dollars. That's

417
00:25:46.000 --> 00:25:48.880
<v Speaker 4>the whole day, from like ten am to seven pm.

418
00:25:49.240 --> 00:25:54.440
<v Speaker 1>And here do they get to keep the the files

419
00:25:54.599 --> 00:25:57.839
<v Speaker 1>for that live stream, so if they miss somebody during

420
00:25:57.839 --> 00:26:00.319
<v Speaker 1>the speak the program, they can go back and pick

421
00:26:00.319 --> 00:26:00.640
<v Speaker 1>it up.

422
00:26:01.920 --> 00:26:04.000
<v Speaker 4>Yeah, that's the yeah, they do. Yeah, we make it

423
00:26:04.720 --> 00:26:07.720
<v Speaker 4>available you can watch it at your leisure anytime afterwards

424
00:26:07.799 --> 00:26:10.759
<v Speaker 4>forever basically, so that's all covered.

425
00:26:10.799 --> 00:26:14.279
<v Speaker 1>Yeah, okay, cool. Yeah, and I forgot that you're gonna

426
00:26:14.279 --> 00:26:18.759
<v Speaker 1>go to Averbury the second day the tour that Negolithic say,

427
00:26:18.880 --> 00:26:20.599
<v Speaker 1>which is very very core.

428
00:26:21.759 --> 00:26:24.279
<v Speaker 4>Avebury is insane. I mean, for those that haven't been

429
00:26:24.319 --> 00:26:27.640
<v Speaker 4>to Avebury, it is the largest stone circle on the planet.

430
00:26:28.240 --> 00:26:31.920
<v Speaker 4>It's so big they've built a small town inside of it.

431
00:26:31.920 --> 00:26:34.039
<v Speaker 4>It's the main roads going through it.

432
00:26:34.039 --> 00:26:34.759
<v Speaker 1>It's that big.

433
00:26:34.839 --> 00:26:37.119
<v Speaker 4>It's crazy. So what we do is, you know, it's

434
00:26:37.119 --> 00:26:38.799
<v Speaker 4>a bit of a kind of you cooped up all

435
00:26:38.839 --> 00:26:41.960
<v Speaker 4>day at conference, you know, an event, and this is

436
00:26:42.000 --> 00:26:44.920
<v Speaker 4>a beautiful venue, mind you, but next day you really

437
00:26:44.920 --> 00:26:46.839
<v Speaker 4>feel like you've got to get out stretch your legs.

438
00:26:46.960 --> 00:26:49.400
<v Speaker 4>So we just a walking tour for like four maybe

439
00:26:49.440 --> 00:26:52.200
<v Speaker 4>five hours, and then we you know, we all break

440
00:26:52.240 --> 00:26:54.559
<v Speaker 4>you know, have a late lunch, hang out in the pub,

441
00:26:55.559 --> 00:26:57.039
<v Speaker 4>and kind of enjoy the rest of the day at

442
00:26:57.079 --> 00:26:59.200
<v Speaker 4>your leisure. So we kind of break it up one

443
00:26:59.279 --> 00:27:02.279
<v Speaker 4>day for on talks, the next day a proper tour.

444
00:27:02.319 --> 00:27:04.359
<v Speaker 4>But Robin heaths running the tour. So what he does

445
00:27:04.400 --> 00:27:07.559
<v Speaker 4>he points out all the cosmology, all the astronomy, all

446
00:27:07.599 --> 00:27:10.400
<v Speaker 4>the layout of the site, how it was designed, and

447
00:27:10.440 --> 00:27:13.920
<v Speaker 4>the geometry and intricacies that they were working with. So

448
00:27:13.920 --> 00:27:16.119
<v Speaker 4>we delighted he's agreed to come because he doesn't do

449
00:27:16.200 --> 00:27:16.920
<v Speaker 4>many lectures.

450
00:27:16.960 --> 00:27:18.359
<v Speaker 1>Now he's getting on a bit.

451
00:27:18.640 --> 00:27:23.039
<v Speaker 4>He's just this remarkable researcher, doesn't I think it's going

452
00:27:23.079 --> 00:27:25.160
<v Speaker 4>to be his first public lecture this year. He's a

453
00:27:25.200 --> 00:27:28.279
<v Speaker 4>real legend in the Earth Mysteries and Ancient Mysteries Field

454
00:27:28.279 --> 00:27:32.039
<v Speaker 4>and this part of Europe. So we're delighted is coming

455
00:27:32.160 --> 00:27:34.640
<v Speaker 4>and we're really looking forward to spending a couple of

456
00:27:34.720 --> 00:27:35.759
<v Speaker 4>days with him.

457
00:27:36.039 --> 00:27:40.519
<v Speaker 1>Fantastic. So for more information go to megal Lithomania that

458
00:27:40.960 --> 00:27:46.039
<v Speaker 1>co dot uk. All the information is listed there. If

459
00:27:46.039 --> 00:27:49.799
<v Speaker 1>you can't get to England, the next best thing is

460
00:27:49.839 --> 00:27:53.079
<v Speaker 1>to stream at forty five dollars is very very reasonable

461
00:27:54.000 --> 00:27:56.880
<v Speaker 1>and you can see the origin graphic. You can click

462
00:27:56.920 --> 00:28:00.400
<v Speaker 1>it and get all the details there. Fantastic all right,

463
00:28:00.480 --> 00:28:04.200
<v Speaker 1>Origins November two. Check it out, all right, good luck

464
00:28:04.319 --> 00:28:05.400
<v Speaker 1>and thanks you.

465
00:28:06.799 --> 00:28:42.119
<v Speaker 3>Thank you, clif appreciate it.

466
00:28:42.119 --> 00:28:45.480
<v Speaker 1>It's always good to speak to Robert Temple. We had

467
00:28:45.559 --> 00:28:49.720
<v Speaker 1>Robert on recently to discuss the serious mystery. He's also

468
00:28:49.799 --> 00:28:54.440
<v Speaker 1>the author of The Crystal Sun, Oracles of the Dead,

469
00:28:54.480 --> 00:28:58.559
<v Speaker 1>and many many other books, and he has just released

470
00:28:59.359 --> 00:29:03.160
<v Speaker 1>a new book called The Greek Pyramids, The Myth That

471
00:29:03.440 --> 00:29:06.000
<v Speaker 1>Was Real, and I have to tell you I had

472
00:29:06.000 --> 00:29:09.359
<v Speaker 1>a chance to read it recently and it really brings

473
00:29:09.400 --> 00:29:14.119
<v Speaker 1>up a lot of questions about antiquity, how we review history,

474
00:29:14.680 --> 00:29:18.640
<v Speaker 1>what is left to us in the forms of ruins,

475
00:29:18.680 --> 00:29:25.880
<v Speaker 1>those being buildings, pyramids, structures and just how history is remembered.

476
00:29:26.680 --> 00:29:30.960
<v Speaker 1>So Robert, great to see you again joining me.

477
00:29:31.519 --> 00:29:34.119
<v Speaker 5>Yes, and I look forward to meeting you because I

478
00:29:34.200 --> 00:29:36.720
<v Speaker 5>always like to go over the cliff.

479
00:29:38.599 --> 00:29:43.160
<v Speaker 1>Exactly what was I mean this work on the Greek

480
00:29:43.279 --> 00:29:47.319
<v Speaker 1>Pyramids took place? When when was the research begun?

481
00:29:48.279 --> 00:29:48.440
<v Speaker 2>Oh?

482
00:29:48.480 --> 00:29:54.559
<v Speaker 5>That was several years ago. But I have a lot

483
00:29:54.599 --> 00:29:59.000
<v Speaker 5>of stuff that I keep trying to bring out. I

484
00:29:59.000 --> 00:30:05.000
<v Speaker 5>write too much, And I finally got around to doing this,

485
00:30:06.119 --> 00:30:09.720
<v Speaker 5>getting into proper form and with all the pictures organized,

486
00:30:09.799 --> 00:30:15.680
<v Speaker 5>and because it's very heavily illustrated, with the pictures that

487
00:30:15.759 --> 00:30:19.319
<v Speaker 5>I took on the locations, and there was a huge

488
00:30:19.359 --> 00:30:24.039
<v Speaker 5>amount of research that was required in old publications, and

489
00:30:25.240 --> 00:30:28.200
<v Speaker 5>I had to study the mythology very carefully and decode

490
00:30:28.200 --> 00:30:30.759
<v Speaker 5>a lot of it. So it's a huge amount of

491
00:30:30.759 --> 00:30:37.880
<v Speaker 5>work involved. Perhaps I should say, as we're starting to

492
00:30:37.920 --> 00:30:41.720
<v Speaker 5>talk on that subject that some of your viewers might

493
00:30:41.799 --> 00:30:48.359
<v Speaker 5>say Greek pyramids? What Greek pyramids? Because I mean, if

494
00:30:48.559 --> 00:30:51.920
<v Speaker 5>surely I started the book out like this, I say,

495
00:30:53.279 --> 00:30:55.799
<v Speaker 5>people would be inclined to say, well, look, if there

496
00:30:55.799 --> 00:30:58.799
<v Speaker 5>are pyramids in Greece, I would have heard about it. Yeah,

497
00:31:00.720 --> 00:31:05.920
<v Speaker 5>But because everybody knows there's no pyramids in Greece. But

498
00:31:06.200 --> 00:31:09.519
<v Speaker 5>as I often point out, what everybody knows is usually wrong.

499
00:31:10.400 --> 00:31:12.839
<v Speaker 1>Yeah, I want to mention to our listeners that this

500
00:31:13.400 --> 00:31:17.920
<v Speaker 1>new book will show. We'll give links and the information

501
00:31:18.000 --> 00:31:23.000
<v Speaker 1>on it. But Robert has actually taken excellent photographs of

502
00:31:23.079 --> 00:31:27.400
<v Speaker 1>the remains of two of what was thought to be

503
00:31:27.599 --> 00:31:32.839
<v Speaker 1>five original pyramids in Greece. And the photographs are excellent.

504
00:31:32.880 --> 00:31:37.200
<v Speaker 1>I'll be posting a few of them on the Facebook

505
00:31:37.279 --> 00:31:41.200
<v Speaker 1>page or the ancient's Facebook. But what the school back, Robert,

506
00:31:41.240 --> 00:31:45.319
<v Speaker 1>what are the legends of pyramids in Greece. This is

507
00:31:45.359 --> 00:31:51.599
<v Speaker 1>actually the brilliance of your research. You actually trace the

508
00:31:51.720 --> 00:31:55.680
<v Speaker 1>various points of reference, go as far back as you

509
00:31:55.759 --> 00:31:59.839
<v Speaker 1>can and give us a sense of when this subject first.

510
00:32:00.440 --> 00:32:02.960
<v Speaker 1>Because you're right, and you mentioned this in the book,

511
00:32:03.519 --> 00:32:05.640
<v Speaker 1>Pyramids in Greece seem very odd.

512
00:32:07.519 --> 00:32:15.160
<v Speaker 5>Well. The oldest surviving published description of a Greek pyramid

513
00:32:16.000 --> 00:32:21.559
<v Speaker 5>dates from the second century AD by the famous ancient

514
00:32:21.680 --> 00:32:26.640
<v Speaker 5>Greek geographical writer Pausanius, And so I give the reference

515
00:32:26.680 --> 00:32:30.240
<v Speaker 5>and I quote all that he actually saw one of them,

516
00:32:30.480 --> 00:32:32.839
<v Speaker 5>and he said it was a perfect pyramid, and he

517
00:32:32.960 --> 00:32:36.920
<v Speaker 5>was astonished that it was there, because he only saw

518
00:32:36.960 --> 00:32:43.680
<v Speaker 5>the one he didn't see all five. He wasn't expecting it. Now,

519
00:32:44.000 --> 00:32:50.279
<v Speaker 5>as you just pointed out, the ancient mythological references are

520
00:32:50.559 --> 00:32:57.240
<v Speaker 5>very elaborate and very striking, and they're repeated by many, many,

521
00:32:57.319 --> 00:33:02.440
<v Speaker 5>many ancient writers over and over again. This tradition that

522
00:33:03.920 --> 00:33:08.079
<v Speaker 5>long before Glasgow, Greece in pre in what they call

523
00:33:08.160 --> 00:33:14.480
<v Speaker 5>prehistoric Greek times, in fact, before the Greeks even reached Greece,

524
00:33:15.559 --> 00:33:20.440
<v Speaker 5>when it was the pre Greek inhabitants who were living there,

525
00:33:21.519 --> 00:33:27.359
<v Speaker 5>about whom we don't know very much. That people came

526
00:33:27.440 --> 00:33:33.559
<v Speaker 5>from the coast of Egypt, from the Delta region of Egypt,

527
00:33:34.519 --> 00:33:39.119
<v Speaker 5>and they sailed first to Rhodes as a stepping off point,

528
00:33:39.200 --> 00:33:43.119
<v Speaker 5>and then sailed up to the Peloponnese, which is the

529
00:33:43.160 --> 00:33:46.720
<v Speaker 5>south of Greece, and along the coast until they came

530
00:33:46.759 --> 00:33:55.039
<v Speaker 5>to the town of Argos, which was it's described as

531
00:33:55.079 --> 00:34:02.480
<v Speaker 5>having been ruled by a king called King Geleanor. I

532
00:34:02.519 --> 00:34:10.159
<v Speaker 5>was able to discover that Geleanor simply means king, so

533
00:34:10.199 --> 00:34:14.079
<v Speaker 5>he was king king. It means king in the ancient

534
00:34:14.239 --> 00:34:18.199
<v Speaker 5>language known as Karian, And we don't know much about

535
00:34:18.199 --> 00:34:24.199
<v Speaker 5>the Karians and the other ancient inhabitants of Greece were

536
00:34:24.199 --> 00:34:26.960
<v Speaker 5>called the Palascians, and we don't know much about them either.

537
00:34:27.519 --> 00:34:30.039
<v Speaker 5>But the so what happened was that, according to the

538
00:34:30.079 --> 00:34:33.599
<v Speaker 5>mythological tale which is told over and over again, these

539
00:34:33.639 --> 00:34:36.920
<v Speaker 5>Egyptians turned up one day with a lot of fighting

540
00:34:36.960 --> 00:34:42.880
<v Speaker 5>men in their ships, and they landed at a place

541
00:34:42.960 --> 00:34:47.000
<v Speaker 5>on the coast of the Peloponnese, which even today is

542
00:34:47.039 --> 00:34:53.639
<v Speaker 5>still called Pyrama, and they conquered the kingdom of Augus.

543
00:34:54.840 --> 00:34:58.440
<v Speaker 5>And the head of this expedition from Egypt was called

544
00:34:58.519 --> 00:35:03.360
<v Speaker 5>Danius da a Us, who's very famous in Greek mythology,

545
00:35:04.559 --> 00:35:08.840
<v Speaker 5>and he became king of August. But he had a

546
00:35:08.960 --> 00:35:14.079
<v Speaker 5>brother who remained in Egypt, who was called Egyptus. Well,

547
00:35:14.440 --> 00:35:15.440
<v Speaker 5>that kind of says it all.

548
00:35:16.360 --> 00:35:18.320
<v Speaker 1>And so.

549
00:35:20.119 --> 00:35:24.079
<v Speaker 5>We've now dated, as I will describe later dated the

550
00:35:24.280 --> 00:35:28.400
<v Speaker 5>surviving pyramids, and they are indeed of the prehistoric date.

551
00:35:29.000 --> 00:35:32.360
<v Speaker 5>We've dated them to approximately twenty five hundred BC.

552
00:35:32.840 --> 00:35:36.559
<v Speaker 1>Which is equal to the old Kingdom in Egypt. That's

553
00:35:36.639 --> 00:35:41.079
<v Speaker 1>that whole period. So they're very old, yes.

554
00:35:41.519 --> 00:35:45.920
<v Speaker 5>And so I had to study all the surviving bits

555
00:35:45.960 --> 00:35:48.480
<v Speaker 5>and pieces of the mythology, which meant a lot of

556
00:35:49.280 --> 00:35:53.039
<v Speaker 5>very obscure Greek authors. But then I'm reading them all

557
00:35:53.079 --> 00:35:58.639
<v Speaker 5>the time, so I already knew about them, and the

558
00:36:00.159 --> 00:36:04.639
<v Speaker 5>the details are very precise. They even name the town

559
00:36:05.159 --> 00:36:09.360
<v Speaker 5>that these migrants came from. They said it was Chemys.

560
00:36:10.320 --> 00:36:15.480
<v Speaker 5>That's in Greek kh e m m i s but

561
00:36:15.639 --> 00:36:21.639
<v Speaker 5>often spelt ch e m m i s Chemists. Now,

562
00:36:21.880 --> 00:36:24.679
<v Speaker 5>I need to explain what it really means to come

563
00:36:24.719 --> 00:36:27.800
<v Speaker 5>from the Delta of Egypt. At that time in history,

564
00:36:29.960 --> 00:36:32.599
<v Speaker 5>at the time I'm speaking of in the Old Kingdom period,

565
00:36:32.639 --> 00:36:38.119
<v Speaker 5>there were no ports on the Egyptian coast of the Mediterranean. None,

566
00:36:39.039 --> 00:36:43.159
<v Speaker 5>And the reason for that is that the coast of

567
00:36:43.239 --> 00:36:46.239
<v Speaker 5>each the Mediterranean coast of Egypt largely consists of what's

568
00:36:46.280 --> 00:36:49.400
<v Speaker 5>called the delta. And the delta is all the mud

569
00:36:49.480 --> 00:36:52.280
<v Speaker 5>that's brought down by the Nile as it empties into

570
00:36:52.360 --> 00:36:55.679
<v Speaker 5>the sea, and it's all it was. Back then. It

571
00:36:55.800 --> 00:36:59.880
<v Speaker 5>was completely marshy and coverd and reads, including the thing

572
00:37:00.199 --> 00:37:05.639
<v Speaker 5>reads known as papyrus. And then there were these huge

573
00:37:06.400 --> 00:37:11.320
<v Speaker 5>sort of saltwater lakes near the end of the delta

574
00:37:11.480 --> 00:37:15.760
<v Speaker 5>which were almost enclosed, and just a little tiny mouth

575
00:37:16.519 --> 00:37:21.280
<v Speaker 5>leading from the lake out into the Mediterranean. And what

576
00:37:21.519 --> 00:37:25.119
<v Speaker 5>served as the ports for Egypt were on the coasts

577
00:37:25.199 --> 00:37:28.440
<v Speaker 5>of the of the lakes, not on the coasts of

578
00:37:28.519 --> 00:37:31.400
<v Speaker 5>the sea. In fact, if you were savingly long, you

579
00:37:31.400 --> 00:37:33.760
<v Speaker 5>wouldn't even see the ports because you'd have to go

580
00:37:33.880 --> 00:37:37.800
<v Speaker 5>through this narrow mouth into the big lake. And only

581
00:37:37.920 --> 00:37:39.679
<v Speaker 5>once you were in the lake, which you say, oh,

582
00:37:39.920 --> 00:37:43.559
<v Speaker 5>there's a city over there. And Chemists was the main

583
00:37:43.840 --> 00:37:49.159
<v Speaker 5>Egyptian port of that time, in a lake on a

584
00:37:49.280 --> 00:37:53.719
<v Speaker 5>sort of saltwater lake. And so all the details that

585
00:37:53.840 --> 00:37:57.400
<v Speaker 5>survive in the mythology are accurate. And I published the

586
00:37:58.039 --> 00:38:01.800
<v Speaker 5>map in the book of what was important in the

587
00:38:01.880 --> 00:38:04.360
<v Speaker 5>Delta region of Egypt back at that time in history.

588
00:38:05.679 --> 00:38:10.719
<v Speaker 5>And even when people were going to Egypt later on,

589
00:38:10.920 --> 00:38:15.440
<v Speaker 5>much later in the classical period, people like Plato, for instance,

590
00:38:15.960 --> 00:38:19.800
<v Speaker 5>were going to greet to Egypt, this is two thousand

591
00:38:19.880 --> 00:38:24.840
<v Speaker 5>years later, they were still not really going down into

592
00:38:25.440 --> 00:38:28.079
<v Speaker 5>Thebes and all of that. They were going to a

593
00:38:28.159 --> 00:38:32.840
<v Speaker 5>town called Sais, which was at that time the capital

594
00:38:33.480 --> 00:38:37.559
<v Speaker 5>of the Delta. So they weren't penetrating too far into Egypt.

595
00:38:37.599 --> 00:38:40.920
<v Speaker 5>They weren't getting south of the Delta really most of them.

596
00:38:41.840 --> 00:38:45.320
<v Speaker 5>A few people would get to Giza. But and for

597
00:38:45.440 --> 00:38:49.280
<v Speaker 5>instance Herodotus, who was in the fifth century BC, he

598
00:38:49.440 --> 00:38:52.960
<v Speaker 5>wrote his account of Egypt in which he describes the Pyramids,

599
00:38:54.440 --> 00:38:58.039
<v Speaker 5>but he doesn't even mention the Sphinx, the reason being

600
00:38:58.119 --> 00:39:00.639
<v Speaker 5>that the Sphinx was covered up to it's chin in

601
00:39:00.800 --> 00:39:03.960
<v Speaker 5>sand and you can't really see it from the pyramids,

602
00:39:04.000 --> 00:39:06.239
<v Speaker 5>and wasn't taken down there, didn't even know.

603
00:39:06.239 --> 00:39:06.639
<v Speaker 1>It was there.

604
00:39:07.199 --> 00:39:12.119
<v Speaker 5>So the knowledge that the Greeks had of Egypt was

605
00:39:12.239 --> 00:39:16.519
<v Speaker 5>very limited, mostly to the Delta regions, and so these

606
00:39:16.679 --> 00:39:20.800
<v Speaker 5>people fled Egypt and sailed out to form a colony

607
00:39:20.880 --> 00:39:27.079
<v Speaker 5>somewhere else and ended up at Argos. And we know

608
00:39:27.320 --> 00:39:32.360
<v Speaker 5>that it can't have been any earlier than the Fifth dynasty,

609
00:39:33.599 --> 00:39:38.360
<v Speaker 5>but it was probably when the Old Kingdom collapsed, because

610
00:39:38.400 --> 00:39:41.679
<v Speaker 5>for one hundred and fifty years the Old Kingdom ended

611
00:39:42.559 --> 00:39:45.639
<v Speaker 5>with the sixth dynasty, and there was complete chaos in

612
00:39:45.719 --> 00:39:51.920
<v Speaker 5>Egypt and famine and drought and everybody killing each other

613
00:39:52.519 --> 00:39:58.039
<v Speaker 5>and constant warfare and destruction, and everybody wanted to get out.

614
00:39:59.360 --> 00:40:02.880
<v Speaker 5>So makes perfect sense that the dates that we found

615
00:40:02.960 --> 00:40:06.880
<v Speaker 5>for the two pyramids that we've dated in Greece coincide

616
00:40:06.960 --> 00:40:10.239
<v Speaker 5>with just the period when people would want to be fleeing,

617
00:40:11.599 --> 00:40:20.400
<v Speaker 5>And there is archaeological evidence to show that the remains

618
00:40:20.559 --> 00:40:25.880
<v Speaker 5>archaeological remains of sixth Dynasty Egypt survive in Greece because

619
00:40:28.480 --> 00:40:31.079
<v Speaker 5>a seal of the one of the pharaohs of the

620
00:40:31.119 --> 00:40:36.199
<v Speaker 5>sixth dynasty was actually excavated in Greece, and I described that,

621
00:40:36.400 --> 00:40:40.480
<v Speaker 5>which proves that there was contact between the Greeks and

622
00:40:41.159 --> 00:40:44.840
<v Speaker 5>the Egyptians at this precise period we're talking about. That's

623
00:40:44.880 --> 00:40:48.800
<v Speaker 5>actual hard archaeological evidence which very few people know about.

624
00:40:49.119 --> 00:40:51.559
<v Speaker 1>So let me just quickly interrupt you for a second.

625
00:40:51.920 --> 00:40:57.840
<v Speaker 1>Was Argos populated by Egyptians who built my pyramids?

626
00:40:58.599 --> 00:41:01.079
<v Speaker 5>Yeah? Yeah, so that's what I'm saying. That when they

627
00:41:01.199 --> 00:41:04.239
<v Speaker 5>conquered Argos, they brought a big crowd of people with them,

628
00:41:04.280 --> 00:41:09.199
<v Speaker 5>and they were colonists, and they turned into a city

629
00:41:09.519 --> 00:41:14.280
<v Speaker 5>of Egyptian migrants. And so then they built we know,

630
00:41:14.360 --> 00:41:21.519
<v Speaker 5>at least five limestone pyramids. Now these are very modest

631
00:41:21.639 --> 00:41:24.920
<v Speaker 5>sized pyramids. They're only thirty or forty feet high. That

632
00:41:25.079 --> 00:41:29.760
<v Speaker 5>kind of thing still not easy to build, and built

633
00:41:30.000 --> 00:41:34.000
<v Speaker 5>in the Egyptian political style, not in the little much

634
00:41:34.119 --> 00:41:37.000
<v Speaker 5>later Greek polygonal style where you have the weird blocks

635
00:41:37.000 --> 00:41:41.920
<v Speaker 5>fitting into each other kind of thing, interlocking blocks. And

636
00:41:43.719 --> 00:41:48.840
<v Speaker 5>so why now, these pyramids were very well known in

637
00:41:48.920 --> 00:41:52.519
<v Speaker 5>the nineteenth century they were described on the front pages

638
00:41:52.559 --> 00:41:59.119
<v Speaker 5>of British newspapers. Many English, German and French scholars who

639
00:41:59.199 --> 00:42:03.639
<v Speaker 5>were walked around the Peloponnese, which was then called Maria,

640
00:42:05.360 --> 00:42:09.119
<v Speaker 5>were visiting them and describing them and publishing engravings of

641
00:42:09.239 --> 00:42:12.679
<v Speaker 5>them and so on. And I have an engraving of

642
00:42:12.800 --> 00:42:16.159
<v Speaker 5>one of the missing three that before it was demolished,

643
00:42:17.440 --> 00:42:22.360
<v Speaker 5>so we have images of three of them, and all

644
00:42:22.519 --> 00:42:29.039
<v Speaker 5>this knowledge vanished, which goes to show how bad archaeologists

645
00:42:29.480 --> 00:42:32.440
<v Speaker 5>are at being scholars. So you see, they may be

646
00:42:32.679 --> 00:42:37.679
<v Speaker 5>experts in the archaeology of Greece as they know it,

647
00:42:38.840 --> 00:42:41.119
<v Speaker 5>what they don't do is go and bury their noses

648
00:42:41.199 --> 00:42:44.280
<v Speaker 5>in the old reports, in the libraries and the archives.

649
00:42:45.559 --> 00:42:50.639
<v Speaker 5>These Greek pyramids were extremely well known one hundred years

650
00:42:50.679 --> 00:42:56.239
<v Speaker 5>ago in Europe and discussed constantly and a great mystery,

651
00:42:56.280 --> 00:42:59.000
<v Speaker 5>and many people were raising the mythological issue as well

652
00:42:59.360 --> 00:43:03.079
<v Speaker 5>in connection with them. And then it just vanishes. Everything

653
00:43:03.199 --> 00:43:08.320
<v Speaker 5>goes becomes very fossilized and orthodox, and you can't mention

654
00:43:08.440 --> 00:43:11.400
<v Speaker 5>anything that can't be explained, or you don't get a

655
00:43:11.440 --> 00:43:15.599
<v Speaker 5>promotion at your university. You know, you know what academics

656
00:43:15.639 --> 00:43:19.280
<v Speaker 5>so like, they're they're in a state of permanent terror

657
00:43:20.000 --> 00:43:22.719
<v Speaker 5>that they won't get promoted, that they'll lose their posts,

658
00:43:23.119 --> 00:43:24.480
<v Speaker 5>that they won't get grants.

659
00:43:24.559 --> 00:43:27.280
<v Speaker 1>That's the worst tenure their tenureship as well.

660
00:43:27.719 --> 00:43:32.679
<v Speaker 5>Absolutely tenure. And if they say anything that's slightly odd,

661
00:43:33.519 --> 00:43:35.639
<v Speaker 5>all their enemies will stick all those knives in their

662
00:43:35.679 --> 00:43:38.599
<v Speaker 5>back and they'll never get the job. So there's this

663
00:43:38.960 --> 00:43:45.119
<v Speaker 5>terrible enforcement of a brainless conformity in the entire academic sphere.

664
00:43:46.800 --> 00:43:50.880
<v Speaker 5>In fact less so in science, but you still get

665
00:43:50.920 --> 00:43:56.519
<v Speaker 5>it there. And it's due to the fact that education

666
00:43:56.719 --> 00:44:01.239
<v Speaker 5>is shrinking. There's less and less funding for or universities

667
00:44:01.320 --> 00:44:04.199
<v Speaker 5>and for professors and so on, Fewer and fewer professors.

668
00:44:04.880 --> 00:44:07.719
<v Speaker 5>Nobody wants to have Egyptologists anymore, and they don't want

669
00:44:07.760 --> 00:44:10.960
<v Speaker 5>to have Greek scholars, and they don't teach Greek and

670
00:44:11.039 --> 00:44:14.840
<v Speaker 5>Latin schools anymore. And it's all out of fashion. And

671
00:44:15.079 --> 00:44:19.599
<v Speaker 5>and in connection with all of that happening, nobody dared

672
00:44:19.679 --> 00:44:21.719
<v Speaker 5>to mention the Greek Pyramids in case they were thought

673
00:44:21.760 --> 00:44:24.440
<v Speaker 5>to be crazy. Because as soon as you talk about anything, oh,

674
00:44:24.519 --> 00:44:28.039
<v Speaker 5>you're immediately crazy, aren't you, And then you lose your

675
00:44:28.079 --> 00:44:30.480
<v Speaker 5>job and then you finished no career, Your wife leaves

676
00:44:30.519 --> 00:44:31.920
<v Speaker 5>you you you have to say.

677
00:44:33.159 --> 00:44:34.320
<v Speaker 1>Sounds like a soap opera.

678
00:44:35.880 --> 00:44:39.679
<v Speaker 5>I'm afraid that the academic world is even worse than

679
00:44:39.719 --> 00:44:44.880
<v Speaker 5>a soap opera. It's a soap horror opera because the

680
00:44:45.119 --> 00:44:49.000
<v Speaker 5>the duplicity and treachery in the academic world, and the

681
00:44:49.239 --> 00:44:52.880
<v Speaker 5>and the the infighting and the way they stab each

682
00:44:52.920 --> 00:44:57.320
<v Speaker 5>other in the back is worse than politics. But that's

683
00:44:57.599 --> 00:44:59.119
<v Speaker 5>about that.

684
00:44:59.360 --> 00:45:01.840
<v Speaker 1>Yeah, I I want to in a minute here, I

685
00:45:01.880 --> 00:45:04.639
<v Speaker 1>want to get to Edward Daniel Clark's work, because you

686
00:45:04.840 --> 00:45:10.000
<v Speaker 1>really highlight him as one of the profound archaeologists who

687
00:45:10.159 --> 00:45:12.960
<v Speaker 1>gives us really good details. But before we get to him,

688
00:45:13.960 --> 00:45:21.159
<v Speaker 1>can you provide any reference that is discussed either as

689
00:45:21.280 --> 00:45:25.920
<v Speaker 1>myth or legends about these five pyramids? And perhaps what

690
00:45:26.119 --> 00:45:29.000
<v Speaker 1>isn't in the book you can provide a little further

691
00:45:29.440 --> 00:45:32.719
<v Speaker 1>after your research in that why would they build them?

692
00:45:32.880 --> 00:45:38.840
<v Speaker 1>Number one? Are they are they solid? Or are they

693
00:45:39.000 --> 00:45:42.480
<v Speaker 1>like the Great Pyramids of Giza where there's inner chambers?

694
00:45:43.920 --> 00:45:46.159
<v Speaker 1>Which is very very important for a lot of us

695
00:45:46.199 --> 00:45:49.719
<v Speaker 1>because there's something I'm fascinated in and more importantly, and

696
00:45:49.840 --> 00:45:52.800
<v Speaker 1>you may not be able to discuss this is are

697
00:45:52.880 --> 00:45:57.480
<v Speaker 1>they on energetic lay lines? Which is something that's coming

698
00:45:57.559 --> 00:46:01.159
<v Speaker 1>up more recently to lurk energy. We know that this

699
00:46:01.320 --> 00:46:06.000
<v Speaker 1>is people who are sensitive. There's new devices that can

700
00:46:06.119 --> 00:46:08.000
<v Speaker 1>measure this. But I don't want to get too far

701
00:46:08.039 --> 00:46:13.199
<v Speaker 1>ahead of myself. Let's talk about the descriptions of antiquity

702
00:46:14.159 --> 00:46:14.840
<v Speaker 1>and the purpose.

703
00:46:15.440 --> 00:46:17.920
<v Speaker 5>Why did they do this? Why would they go to

704
00:46:18.000 --> 00:46:21.440
<v Speaker 5>the trouble of You know, it's quite difficult. They had

705
00:46:21.519 --> 00:46:25.800
<v Speaker 5>to make these limestone structures, and they had to know

706
00:46:25.920 --> 00:46:28.880
<v Speaker 5>how to make them have slopes that were going up

707
00:46:28.920 --> 00:46:32.519
<v Speaker 5>to a point. And yeah, constructing a period pyramid is

708
00:46:32.599 --> 00:46:33.079
<v Speaker 5>not easy.

709
00:46:33.440 --> 00:46:36.400
<v Speaker 1>And also I should mention that much of the base

710
00:46:36.480 --> 00:46:40.559
<v Speaker 1>stones are megalithic in size several times some of that,

711
00:46:40.719 --> 00:46:43.880
<v Speaker 1>so they're not simple easy to put together. That they

712
00:46:44.079 --> 00:46:46.559
<v Speaker 1>take up good engineering skills.

713
00:46:47.320 --> 00:46:50.320
<v Speaker 5>Yes, the stones get smaller the higher up you go.

714
00:46:50.920 --> 00:46:53.960
<v Speaker 5>They're very very huge, and these are on stone bases.

715
00:46:54.440 --> 00:46:57.719
<v Speaker 5>And so they leveled the ground and they did a

716
00:46:57.880 --> 00:47:02.840
<v Speaker 5>nice firm flat stone bay which was the foundation, and

717
00:47:03.480 --> 00:47:07.360
<v Speaker 5>the two that survived do have chambers inside, and I

718
00:47:07.559 --> 00:47:11.159
<v Speaker 5>described that, and I show the photos and the diagrams.

719
00:47:11.199 --> 00:47:16.199
<v Speaker 5>It's all very fully explained. So the question is why

720
00:47:16.519 --> 00:47:19.440
<v Speaker 5>on Earth did they go to all this trouble? What

721
00:47:20.280 --> 00:47:24.400
<v Speaker 5>was the motivation, and there've been all kinds of suggestions

722
00:47:24.559 --> 00:47:26.360
<v Speaker 5>in the nineteenth century as to what they were for.

723
00:47:28.719 --> 00:47:31.800
<v Speaker 5>It was very soon rejected the idea that they could

724
00:47:31.840 --> 00:47:35.559
<v Speaker 5>possibly be tombs because that didn't make any sense. And

725
00:47:35.719 --> 00:47:38.559
<v Speaker 5>then it was suggested that they are military guard posts,

726
00:47:38.920 --> 00:47:42.119
<v Speaker 5>but of course they've got no windows and they're facing

727
00:47:42.159 --> 00:47:44.360
<v Speaker 5>the wrong way so you couldn't see anybody coming anyway,

728
00:47:44.920 --> 00:47:48.239
<v Speaker 5>so that didn't work. And there are a few archaeologists

729
00:47:48.239 --> 00:47:51.440
<v Speaker 5>who are so fantastically stupid that they said that they

730
00:47:51.480 --> 00:47:56.320
<v Speaker 5>were farm buildings. Can you imagine building a forty foot

731
00:47:56.400 --> 00:48:02.159
<v Speaker 5>high limestone pyramid to put your hay in? It's completely crazy,

732
00:48:03.599 --> 00:48:05.559
<v Speaker 5>And so I joke in my book, because I live

733
00:48:05.599 --> 00:48:08.360
<v Speaker 5>in the countryside in England, I think I'm going to

734
00:48:08.400 --> 00:48:12.679
<v Speaker 5>go tell all my farmer neighbors who are all around me,

735
00:48:13.920 --> 00:48:17.320
<v Speaker 5>you're doing anything wrong. Guys. All those hay barns you've

736
00:48:17.360 --> 00:48:20.920
<v Speaker 5>got forget it. What you all really need is forty

737
00:48:20.920 --> 00:48:24.639
<v Speaker 5>foot high limestone pyramids. And if you don't do that,

738
00:48:24.719 --> 00:48:28.800
<v Speaker 5>you're just not in the swing. So of course all

739
00:48:28.840 --> 00:48:31.800
<v Speaker 5>these ridiculous ideas have come up of farm buildings as

740
00:48:31.840 --> 00:48:35.519
<v Speaker 5>the most ridiculous. I also discovered by the way, although

741
00:48:35.519 --> 00:48:37.559
<v Speaker 5>I have not been there to inspect them, and nobody's

742
00:48:37.599 --> 00:48:39.519
<v Speaker 5>going to do it anytime soon, is that there are

743
00:48:39.639 --> 00:48:42.280
<v Speaker 5>four the remains of four of them in the Crimea.

744
00:48:44.880 --> 00:48:48.039
<v Speaker 5>It seems that these Egyptians went up into the Black Sea,

745
00:48:48.079 --> 00:48:52.199
<v Speaker 5>and we do know that they did because Herodotus specifically

746
00:48:52.360 --> 00:48:54.679
<v Speaker 5>since that they went to the Black Sea all the time,

747
00:48:54.760 --> 00:48:57.400
<v Speaker 5>and they even went as far as the eastern end

748
00:48:57.440 --> 00:49:02.480
<v Speaker 5>of it, which is called Georgia today. Anyway, that's another issue.

749
00:49:03.719 --> 00:49:08.039
<v Speaker 5>But the why would they build these pyramids and go

750
00:49:08.159 --> 00:49:10.800
<v Speaker 5>to all that trouble, Well, I think there are two reasons.

751
00:49:11.159 --> 00:49:15.480
<v Speaker 5>One is the psychological reason of them being a statement

752
00:49:15.920 --> 00:49:18.800
<v Speaker 5>this is who we are and this is where we

753
00:49:18.960 --> 00:49:24.079
<v Speaker 5>come from, and this is our symbol. We stand for pyramids,

754
00:49:24.119 --> 00:49:28.360
<v Speaker 5>and they're they're doing many replicas of what they remember

755
00:49:28.400 --> 00:49:32.639
<v Speaker 5>from home, and it's like it's like the international flag.

756
00:49:34.159 --> 00:49:36.079
<v Speaker 5>But the other thing is they did have a practical

757
00:49:36.199 --> 00:49:39.039
<v Speaker 5>use in that they were useful if you were sailing,

758
00:49:39.159 --> 00:49:42.679
<v Speaker 5>you could see them, and for instance, they tended to

759
00:49:42.719 --> 00:49:46.719
<v Speaker 5>be at key points and they're also always near springs.

760
00:49:49.159 --> 00:49:51.360
<v Speaker 1>We're going to take a short commercial break to allow

761
00:49:51.480 --> 00:49:55.679
<v Speaker 1>our sponsors to identify themselves and we will return shortly

762
00:49:55.800 --> 00:50:00.960
<v Speaker 1>with my guest today Robert Temple discussing his his newest book,

763
00:50:01.519 --> 00:50:07.239
<v Speaker 1>The Greek Pyramids, The Myth That Was Real, will be

764
00:50:07.920 --> 00:50:53.599
<v Speaker 1>right back. My guest today is Professor Robert Temple, who

765
00:50:53.639 --> 00:50:57.239
<v Speaker 1>has written a new book called The Greek Pyramids, The

766
00:50:57.360 --> 00:51:01.280
<v Speaker 1>Myth That Was Real. His research, his augmentation takes us

767
00:51:01.360 --> 00:51:07.000
<v Speaker 1>back to the old Kingdom of Egypt and the group

768
00:51:07.079 --> 00:51:12.639
<v Speaker 1>of Egyptians who actually migrated to Greece. So they're not

769
00:51:12.800 --> 00:51:16.320
<v Speaker 1>clustered together as what you've discovered. They weren't like in

770
00:51:16.440 --> 00:51:19.079
<v Speaker 1>a grouping. They were spread over landscape.

771
00:51:19.480 --> 00:51:23.840
<v Speaker 5>They're all separate from one another across the landscape, and

772
00:51:23.960 --> 00:51:28.000
<v Speaker 5>so you ask about lay lines, and this is what

773
00:51:28.119 --> 00:51:31.280
<v Speaker 5>I haven't done or been able to do, is to

774
00:51:31.400 --> 00:51:38.360
<v Speaker 5>do proper links between them geodetically and to see how

775
00:51:38.400 --> 00:51:44.880
<v Speaker 5>they connect on maps and study the configurations. This is

776
00:51:45.000 --> 00:51:47.360
<v Speaker 5>what I haven't done in that I in my book,

777
00:51:47.400 --> 00:51:51.679
<v Speaker 5>I urge people to try and do that. Okay, there's

778
00:51:51.719 --> 00:51:54.159
<v Speaker 5>been some work done on one of them in terms

779
00:51:54.199 --> 00:51:58.519
<v Speaker 5>of its astronomical orientation, and we because it has a

780
00:51:58.679 --> 00:52:03.679
<v Speaker 5>door that's open towards the sea, because it's on a

781
00:52:03.760 --> 00:52:05.760
<v Speaker 5>hill and you can look out and you can see

782
00:52:06.599 --> 00:52:09.880
<v Speaker 5>just below you in the distance is the town of

783
00:52:10.000 --> 00:52:16.880
<v Speaker 5>Argos and then the sea, and that is not oriented

784
00:52:16.920 --> 00:52:20.360
<v Speaker 5>towards a sunrise or a sunset, or a moon standing

785
00:52:20.440 --> 00:52:23.679
<v Speaker 5>still point or anything like that. It seems to be

786
00:52:23.840 --> 00:52:27.400
<v Speaker 5>a stellar orientation of some kind. But this has not

787
00:52:27.480 --> 00:52:32.480
<v Speaker 5>been fully worked out. So basically, I've gathered all the

788
00:52:32.559 --> 00:52:35.559
<v Speaker 5>evidence to show, first of all that these things exist.

789
00:52:36.320 --> 00:52:38.800
<v Speaker 5>I've come up with what I think are sensible suggestions

790
00:52:38.840 --> 00:52:44.159
<v Speaker 5>about why they were built. I've decoded and pieced together

791
00:52:44.239 --> 00:52:47.599
<v Speaker 5>all the bits and pieces of all the mythological lure

792
00:52:47.800 --> 00:52:52.039
<v Speaker 5>to make sense, and combined it with the archaeological knowledge

793
00:52:52.119 --> 00:52:55.119
<v Speaker 5>that we have that touches upon it, and put all

794
00:52:55.199 --> 00:52:58.400
<v Speaker 5>that together and close it a lot of authorities, and

795
00:52:59.079 --> 00:53:03.719
<v Speaker 5>it's basically, I'm like somebody who has made a coat

796
00:53:03.800 --> 00:53:07.519
<v Speaker 5>out of a patchwork and it looks nice, what you

797
00:53:07.559 --> 00:53:13.480
<v Speaker 5>could call a harlequin design, Okay, but it works. It

798
00:53:14.639 --> 00:53:18.239
<v Speaker 5>is a picture. It's a very colorful picture. And it's

799
00:53:18.360 --> 00:53:21.800
<v Speaker 5>not just connected with the town of Argos. It's connected

800
00:53:21.880 --> 00:53:26.679
<v Speaker 5>also with the the fortified city of Tyrans, which was

801
00:53:27.199 --> 00:53:30.159
<v Speaker 5>which is well known from the age of the Trojan War,

802
00:53:31.440 --> 00:53:35.639
<v Speaker 5>and because the archives who came from Argos were also

803
00:53:35.760 --> 00:53:40.199
<v Speaker 5>from Tyrance, and they went off to fight in Troy.

804
00:53:40.320 --> 00:53:44.920
<v Speaker 5>But this is a thousand years later. And also there's

805
00:53:45.000 --> 00:53:50.760
<v Speaker 5>a prehistoric site that's very mysterious in the territory of Argos, which,

806
00:53:51.079 --> 00:53:53.440
<v Speaker 5>as it happens, I wrote about in a previous book,

807
00:53:53.519 --> 00:53:57.800
<v Speaker 5>the one called the Crystal Sun, before I knew really

808
00:53:58.000 --> 00:54:01.039
<v Speaker 5>about the Greek Pyramids. That book came out in the

809
00:54:01.159 --> 00:54:05.880
<v Speaker 5>year two thousand and In it I talk about this

810
00:54:06.079 --> 00:54:12.199
<v Speaker 5>mysterious place called Learner ellie R in a Now Learner

811
00:54:12.320 --> 00:54:19.159
<v Speaker 5>is really bizarre. It's it's been fully excavated and dated

812
00:54:19.239 --> 00:54:23.039
<v Speaker 5>to what they call Late Helladic two and we and

813
00:54:23.119 --> 00:54:26.000
<v Speaker 5>then that's more or less the same time as we've

814
00:54:26.119 --> 00:54:31.679
<v Speaker 5>dated these pyramids too, and it's it's got all kinds

815
00:54:31.679 --> 00:54:35.239
<v Speaker 5>of mysterious things attached to it, but primarily it's important

816
00:54:35.280 --> 00:54:38.760
<v Speaker 5>in mythology. It's the site of one of the key

817
00:54:38.920 --> 00:54:43.679
<v Speaker 5>labors of Hercules, his second labor you know he had.

818
00:54:43.960 --> 00:54:45.880
<v Speaker 5>He was given twelve labors that he had to do,

819
00:54:47.000 --> 00:54:52.760
<v Speaker 5>and the second one took place at Lerna. And most

820
00:54:52.840 --> 00:54:55.920
<v Speaker 5>people don't know where Learner is or what it means,

821
00:54:56.320 --> 00:55:00.559
<v Speaker 5>because there that's where the hydro was. You cut off ahead,

822
00:55:00.599 --> 00:55:02.679
<v Speaker 5>and two more grew in his place. You know the

823
00:55:02.719 --> 00:55:07.079
<v Speaker 5>story of the Hydra, And I've explained the whole myth

824
00:55:07.159 --> 00:55:10.039
<v Speaker 5>of the Hydra, which was all Learner, and it was

825
00:55:10.119 --> 00:55:12.760
<v Speaker 5>all happening at the same time as these pyramids were

826
00:55:12.800 --> 00:55:15.960
<v Speaker 5>being built and the Egyptians were there. I put the

827
00:55:16.000 --> 00:55:20.920
<v Speaker 5>whole story together. And there is a sort of bottomless

828
00:55:21.039 --> 00:55:25.920
<v Speaker 5>lake there. The Emperor Nero had a fixation on the

829
00:55:26.000 --> 00:55:29.159
<v Speaker 5>place and he was determined to get to the bottom

830
00:55:29.199 --> 00:55:33.159
<v Speaker 5>of it, literally, and he got these huge weighted cables

831
00:55:33.840 --> 00:55:35.840
<v Speaker 5>and took a sort of small army with him to

832
00:55:35.960 --> 00:55:39.159
<v Speaker 5>this site because he said, there can't be a bottomless lake.

833
00:55:39.400 --> 00:55:41.639
<v Speaker 5>It's got to be a bottom. And he kept putting

834
00:55:41.679 --> 00:55:45.440
<v Speaker 5>the cables down, the cables down, and the ropes down

835
00:55:46.360 --> 00:55:49.880
<v Speaker 5>with lead weights, and he never did get to the bottom.

836
00:55:50.639 --> 00:55:53.440
<v Speaker 5>And so that kind of drove me mad. Maybe that's

837
00:55:53.440 --> 00:55:58.280
<v Speaker 5>why he burnt room down. But it's a place that's

838
00:55:58.320 --> 00:56:02.599
<v Speaker 5>driven people man from time to time. This mysterious place

839
00:56:02.679 --> 00:56:05.840
<v Speaker 5>called Lerna, and it had it was said to be

840
00:56:05.960 --> 00:56:11.519
<v Speaker 5>the abode of witches and spirits, and they had weird

841
00:56:12.559 --> 00:56:16.559
<v Speaker 5>ceremonies in the middle of the night there, mystical ceremonies

842
00:56:16.559 --> 00:56:21.960
<v Speaker 5>where they blue horns in classical times to make the

843
00:56:22.039 --> 00:56:25.360
<v Speaker 5>god Dionysius rise from the dead, which he was meant

844
00:56:25.400 --> 00:56:27.639
<v Speaker 5>to do by coming up out of the water of

845
00:56:27.800 --> 00:56:31.920
<v Speaker 5>this bottomless lake. There are so many weird stories in

846
00:56:32.079 --> 00:56:34.599
<v Speaker 5>this book, and I've shown how they all relate to

847
00:56:34.679 --> 00:56:38.519
<v Speaker 5>one another, and they all substantiate one another, and it's

848
00:56:38.559 --> 00:56:42.639
<v Speaker 5>all to do with this fact that these Egyptian colonists came,

849
00:56:43.599 --> 00:56:46.840
<v Speaker 5>and this the memory of them was preserved, even though

850
00:56:47.559 --> 00:56:50.360
<v Speaker 5>they were a thousand years before the children wore.

851
00:56:51.159 --> 00:56:55.800
<v Speaker 1>Yeah, let me ask you are has anyone done any

852
00:56:56.599 --> 00:57:00.480
<v Speaker 1>cosmological studies to see if these pyramids line up with

853
00:57:00.559 --> 00:57:05.239
<v Speaker 1>a certain constellation similar to the Orion constellation we see

854
00:57:05.280 --> 00:57:05.920
<v Speaker 1>at Giza.

855
00:57:06.679 --> 00:57:10.199
<v Speaker 5>Yes, my friend Joannis, who will talk about a bit later,

856
00:57:10.320 --> 00:57:12.960
<v Speaker 5>who has the dating technique, and he did the dating

857
00:57:15.119 --> 00:57:18.440
<v Speaker 5>thought that the one that I was just mentioning where

858
00:57:18.440 --> 00:57:20.679
<v Speaker 5>you can look out to see was oriented to one

859
00:57:20.719 --> 00:57:22.800
<v Speaker 5>of the stars in Orion's belt.

860
00:57:24.840 --> 00:57:29.119
<v Speaker 1>Okay, so that's important to know that these are just

861
00:57:29.280 --> 00:57:35.280
<v Speaker 1>not randomly placed in argos. They're actually thought out, well

862
00:57:35.360 --> 00:57:36.000
<v Speaker 1>thought out.

863
00:57:36.519 --> 00:57:40.440
<v Speaker 5>Oh very well thought out, incredibly well planned, and you

864
00:57:40.599 --> 00:57:44.719
<v Speaker 5>can't build a structure like that without knowing what you're doing,

865
00:57:44.880 --> 00:57:49.360
<v Speaker 5>although I do criticize the roughness of some of the stonework,

866
00:57:50.920 --> 00:57:57.440
<v Speaker 5>because the architects were thorough professionals who were doing all this,

867
00:57:58.159 --> 00:58:01.920
<v Speaker 5>but they were relying to a certain extent on local labor,

868
00:58:03.119 --> 00:58:07.840
<v Speaker 5>and they didn't have the expert stone masons obviously that

869
00:58:08.079 --> 00:58:11.079
<v Speaker 5>existed back home in Egypt. But they did the best

870
00:58:11.119 --> 00:58:14.679
<v Speaker 5>they could in terms of that. But they managed. And

871
00:58:14.840 --> 00:58:17.800
<v Speaker 5>there's no cement. This is all dry stone.

872
00:58:17.800 --> 00:58:21.360
<v Speaker 1>There's no mortar or any of them. It's it's stone

873
00:58:21.400 --> 00:58:24.320
<v Speaker 1>against stone, which is extremely difficult.

874
00:58:24.440 --> 00:58:29.119
<v Speaker 5>Very difficult. No motar at all. Now there was there

875
00:58:29.199 --> 00:58:33.440
<v Speaker 5>was some mortar smeared into bits of them much later on,

876
00:58:34.239 --> 00:58:37.880
<v Speaker 5>because there were people squatting inside these pyramids, and and

877
00:58:38.079 --> 00:58:44.599
<v Speaker 5>and they even dragged a grindstone in there. The people

878
00:58:44.679 --> 00:58:50.320
<v Speaker 5>were living in them, squatting throughout the centuries, and in fact,

879
00:58:50.440 --> 00:58:55.559
<v Speaker 5>until the ninth about the eighteen seventies, basically all five

880
00:58:55.639 --> 00:58:58.159
<v Speaker 5>of them were more or less still in existence. Certainly

881
00:58:58.400 --> 00:59:02.920
<v Speaker 5>the three of them were pretty much complete. And what's

882
00:59:02.960 --> 00:59:05.559
<v Speaker 5>happened is that the local farmers as soon as the

883
00:59:05.679 --> 00:59:09.599
<v Speaker 5>Turks lost control of Greece and it became independent, and

884
00:59:09.719 --> 00:59:14.239
<v Speaker 5>the Turkish people soldiers weren't going around and shooting if

885
00:59:14.280 --> 00:59:17.360
<v Speaker 5>you did their own thing. The farmers were free to

886
00:59:18.639 --> 00:59:22.880
<v Speaker 5>gamble about the local farmers, I mean, and do as

887
00:59:22.960 --> 00:59:24.840
<v Speaker 5>they wished instead that one of the first things they

888
00:59:24.880 --> 00:59:28.159
<v Speaker 5>did was pulled down these pyramids and reuse the stone

889
00:59:28.760 --> 00:59:33.159
<v Speaker 5>for their own constructions, or burned them for lime, to

890
00:59:33.280 --> 00:59:36.599
<v Speaker 5>make lime from the limestone. So this is why this

891
00:59:36.880 --> 00:59:40.280
<v Speaker 5>huge destruction took place. But I have an image of

892
00:59:40.400 --> 00:59:44.199
<v Speaker 5>one of the three lost pyramids that was still in

893
00:59:44.360 --> 00:59:48.840
<v Speaker 5>existence in the eighteen seventies, but it's completely gone now,

894
00:59:49.480 --> 00:59:50.800
<v Speaker 5>although we know it was.

895
00:59:51.719 --> 00:59:55.760
<v Speaker 1>Yeah, let's talk about Edward Daniel Clark, who in eighteen

896
00:59:55.920 --> 01:00:02.920
<v Speaker 1>eighteen did some very basic excavation and came up with

897
01:00:03.119 --> 01:00:09.159
<v Speaker 1>a description that you figured in his in his analysis

898
01:00:09.239 --> 01:00:10.159
<v Speaker 1>of this structures.

899
01:00:10.199 --> 01:00:13.880
<v Speaker 5>Go ahead, Well, Clark was one of the greatest of

900
01:00:14.119 --> 01:00:18.800
<v Speaker 5>the nineteenth century travelers, and he was very intrepid, and

901
01:00:19.119 --> 01:00:21.400
<v Speaker 5>at the time he was tramping through the Peloponnese, it

902
01:00:21.519 --> 01:00:25.039
<v Speaker 5>was totally wild and there were lots of bandits who

903
01:00:25.039 --> 01:00:28.079
<v Speaker 5>would attack you and rob you, and it was quite perilous,

904
01:00:28.880 --> 01:00:30.800
<v Speaker 5>and so you had to be quite tough, and you

905
01:00:30.880 --> 01:00:35.000
<v Speaker 5>had to have your guns with you. And in fact,

906
01:00:35.400 --> 01:00:37.039
<v Speaker 5>I don't know what it was. Clark or one of

907
01:00:37.119 --> 01:00:43.400
<v Speaker 5>the others actually speaks of taking a break from ruin

908
01:00:43.519 --> 01:00:47.880
<v Speaker 5>hunting to go quail shooting in the marshes. You know,

909
01:00:47.960 --> 01:00:51.239
<v Speaker 5>they were they were hunting game to eat on their

910
01:00:51.360 --> 01:00:55.199
<v Speaker 5>tracks through the wilderness of Greece because you know, the

911
01:00:55.280 --> 01:00:58.360
<v Speaker 5>Turks had only recently been thrown out, so that it

912
01:00:58.519 --> 01:01:01.119
<v Speaker 5>was possible to get about, but there wasn't much to see.

913
01:01:01.280 --> 01:01:04.840
<v Speaker 5>That was because everybody was in sort of shacks because

914
01:01:04.880 --> 01:01:06.840
<v Speaker 5>they were oppressed by the Turks, you see.

915
01:01:07.559 --> 01:01:07.639
<v Speaker 1>And.

916
01:01:10.119 --> 01:01:12.920
<v Speaker 5>So these travelers weren't interested so much in the towns.

917
01:01:12.960 --> 01:01:16.920
<v Speaker 5>They were exploring, for what was in fact, the very

918
01:01:17.000 --> 01:01:22.800
<v Speaker 5>first time in what we could call modern times, exploring

919
01:01:22.960 --> 01:01:27.599
<v Speaker 5>the terrain of Greek And they all carried with them

920
01:01:27.639 --> 01:01:31.519
<v Speaker 5>their copies of Paulsenius, the man I mentioned earlier who

921
01:01:32.280 --> 01:01:35.159
<v Speaker 5>described one of the pyramids in the second century AD,

922
01:01:35.280 --> 01:01:38.719
<v Speaker 5>because Paulsenius is brilliant, and they all had their copies

923
01:01:38.760 --> 01:01:40.599
<v Speaker 5>of Pausenius with them, and of course they could all

924
01:01:40.760 --> 01:01:46.840
<v Speaker 5>read fluent ancient Greek, so they didn't need to need translations,

925
01:01:47.599 --> 01:01:52.639
<v Speaker 5>and they they actually quote Paulsenius as they go around.

926
01:01:52.679 --> 01:01:55.440
<v Speaker 5>They say, oh, well, we found the thing he mentions there,

927
01:01:56.320 --> 01:02:01.239
<v Speaker 5>and he's their guidebook, even though he's seventeen hundred years

928
01:02:01.360 --> 01:02:03.599
<v Speaker 5>earlier than them, but it's the only guidebook they have.

929
01:02:04.280 --> 01:02:08.440
<v Speaker 5>And they're basically writing these very detailed reports on the

930
01:02:08.559 --> 01:02:14.760
<v Speaker 5>topography and terrain of these wild places in Greece, which

931
01:02:14.800 --> 01:02:18.480
<v Speaker 5>are so much of which are still wild today, although

932
01:02:19.880 --> 01:02:23.199
<v Speaker 5>much less vegetation because the goats eat everything, as you know,

933
01:02:24.239 --> 01:02:29.079
<v Speaker 5>and there's too many goats in Greece. But they they

934
01:02:29.199 --> 01:02:33.000
<v Speaker 5>left these very detailed records, and they came across these pyramids,

935
01:02:33.039 --> 01:02:36.719
<v Speaker 5>and they discussed them at length, and the Germans were

936
01:02:36.719 --> 01:02:38.039
<v Speaker 5>doing a lot of that, and so I had to

937
01:02:38.119 --> 01:02:43.079
<v Speaker 5>translate all the German stuff, and I criticized some of

938
01:02:43.159 --> 01:02:49.320
<v Speaker 5>the early scholars because they, for instance, there was one

939
01:02:49.480 --> 01:02:52.840
<v Speaker 5>German who wrote a detailed description of one of the pyramids,

940
01:02:53.519 --> 01:02:58.800
<v Speaker 5>and he's he's always listed in their footnotes, but nobody

941
01:02:58.840 --> 01:03:01.000
<v Speaker 5>ever quotes him. And that's because they either couldn't read

942
01:03:01.039 --> 01:03:03.280
<v Speaker 5>German or couldn't be bothered to try and read the German.

943
01:03:03.840 --> 01:03:05.960
<v Speaker 5>And so what I've done with him is I've I've

944
01:03:06.079 --> 01:03:09.039
<v Speaker 5>published the entire thing that he wrote in German, I

945
01:03:09.199 --> 01:03:11.840
<v Speaker 5>translated into English, and I put it as an appendix,

946
01:03:12.480 --> 01:03:15.760
<v Speaker 5>and I pointed out that if the guys that were

947
01:03:15.800 --> 01:03:19.599
<v Speaker 5>putting him in their footnotes had actually read what he said,

948
01:03:20.360 --> 01:03:21.960
<v Speaker 5>they would know that some of the things they were

949
01:03:22.000 --> 01:03:26.280
<v Speaker 5>speculating about weren't you, because the already disproved them. But

950
01:03:26.320 --> 01:03:29.920
<v Speaker 5>they didn't know that because they couldn't read couldn't read

951
01:03:29.920 --> 01:03:36.719
<v Speaker 5>the Germans. So it was very time consuming. And Clark

952
01:03:37.159 --> 01:03:43.239
<v Speaker 5>published many volumes of his travels in Greece and in

953
01:03:43.480 --> 01:03:47.960
<v Speaker 5>several editions, and I had to get I think it

954
01:03:48.039 --> 01:03:50.519
<v Speaker 5>was volume three or was it volume six, something like that.

955
01:03:50.920 --> 01:03:53.440
<v Speaker 5>It's all in the book, and I had to get

956
01:03:53.480 --> 01:03:58.119
<v Speaker 5>a certain edition. And because he then he moves on,

957
01:03:58.360 --> 01:04:01.800
<v Speaker 5>you see minions having the other volumes because there won't

958
01:04:01.800 --> 01:04:04.119
<v Speaker 5>be any pyramids because he's already left the territory of

959
01:04:04.280 --> 01:04:08.840
<v Speaker 5>Argos by then. And all the references of the early

960
01:04:08.920 --> 01:04:12.719
<v Speaker 5>scholars are very brief. They give only surnames, they don't

961
01:04:12.760 --> 01:04:17.199
<v Speaker 5>give any first names, So you have to do a

962
01:04:17.239 --> 01:04:19.480
<v Speaker 5>lot of research to find out, well, who is this guy,

963
01:04:20.440 --> 01:04:23.159
<v Speaker 5>for instance, And then you get a footnote says Clark,

964
01:04:23.239 --> 01:04:25.239
<v Speaker 5>and you have to find out what which Clark is

965
01:04:25.280 --> 01:04:27.199
<v Speaker 5>he talking about. I had to discover Clark.

966
01:04:27.639 --> 01:04:29.480
<v Speaker 1>Yeah, he did a lot of he did a lot

967
01:04:29.519 --> 01:04:30.039
<v Speaker 1>of research.

968
01:04:30.239 --> 01:04:33.199
<v Speaker 5>Yeah, and so in my book I give the complete,

969
01:04:33.280 --> 01:04:37.320
<v Speaker 5>full names and full dates of everybody that ever discussed

970
01:04:37.440 --> 01:04:41.280
<v Speaker 5>the Greek pyramids, whereas that was completely unavailable before, and

971
01:04:41.360 --> 01:04:44.519
<v Speaker 5>it took me forever to find them, especially with some

972
01:04:44.639 --> 01:04:47.679
<v Speaker 5>of the Germans. Some of those German scholars are very

973
01:04:47.719 --> 01:04:53.360
<v Speaker 5>obscure and you don't necessarily come up with them on well,

974
01:04:53.360 --> 01:04:56.599
<v Speaker 5>they wouldn't be listed on Wikipedia, and it's hard to

975
01:04:56.639 --> 01:04:59.559
<v Speaker 5>find them on the indet because the Internet is English

976
01:04:59.639 --> 01:05:03.519
<v Speaker 5>language biased. As you know. It's also full of errors.

977
01:05:03.599 --> 01:05:07.119
<v Speaker 5>I mean, never rely upon Wikipedia for anything because they

978
01:05:07.199 --> 01:05:11.039
<v Speaker 5>make so many mistakes and they're very complete. In fact,

979
01:05:11.119 --> 01:05:12.719
<v Speaker 5>I have a very low opinion of them, but they

980
01:05:12.760 --> 01:05:17.559
<v Speaker 5>are useful for a lot of basic information. So it

981
01:05:17.719 --> 01:05:19.519
<v Speaker 5>was it was very difficult, and I had to spend

982
01:05:19.559 --> 01:05:22.719
<v Speaker 5>a lot of time in the British Library hunting down

983
01:05:22.920 --> 01:05:26.280
<v Speaker 5>these guys. So you get a whole list, you might

984
01:05:26.360 --> 01:05:28.719
<v Speaker 5>have one hundred and fifty guys with that same surname,

985
01:05:29.119 --> 01:05:31.840
<v Speaker 5>and you have to look at every entry to find

986
01:05:32.199 --> 01:05:34.840
<v Speaker 5>the word Greece in there somewhere, and then you have

987
01:05:34.960 --> 01:05:37.039
<v Speaker 5>to order the books and wait for them, and you

988
01:05:37.119 --> 01:05:39.440
<v Speaker 5>can only get so many of the time. It takes

989
01:05:39.480 --> 01:05:42.519
<v Speaker 5>absolutely forever to put these pieces of jigsaw together.

990
01:05:43.159 --> 01:05:47.599
<v Speaker 1>Is that how you found Theodore Wigan the guy again?

991
01:05:48.320 --> 01:05:50.800
<v Speaker 5>Yeah, he's the guy that they never bothered to read.

992
01:05:51.239 --> 01:05:53.320
<v Speaker 1>Well, t I want you to talk about him because

993
01:05:53.360 --> 01:06:00.000
<v Speaker 1>he actually excavated one of the pyramids, Cafalari, the Caffilari Pyramids,

994
01:06:00.159 --> 01:06:03.559
<v Speaker 1>which is one of the names for these Egyptian pyramids

995
01:06:04.000 --> 01:06:05.119
<v Speaker 1>in nineteen oh one.

996
01:06:06.239 --> 01:06:07.840
<v Speaker 5>Yes, and he actually came up.

997
01:06:07.840 --> 01:06:11.360
<v Speaker 1>With in your and you write about this what he

998
01:06:11.519 --> 01:06:12.800
<v Speaker 1>believed was the purpose.

999
01:06:14.239 --> 01:06:16.960
<v Speaker 5>Yeah, we'll talk about him. So first of all, I'll

1000
01:06:17.000 --> 01:06:20.639
<v Speaker 5>show you. This is the front of the book, which

1001
01:06:20.760 --> 01:06:25.920
<v Speaker 5>is the Pyramids, and Appendix two at the back is

1002
01:06:26.039 --> 01:06:30.800
<v Speaker 5>my translation of the Complete Account of the Pyramids by Vgon, Yeah,

1003
01:06:31.440 --> 01:06:36.320
<v Speaker 5>in English for the very first time. And so, as

1004
01:06:36.719 --> 01:06:39.360
<v Speaker 5>you said, he is full of information, but information that

1005
01:06:39.559 --> 01:06:42.960
<v Speaker 5>until I translated it, nobody in the English language ever

1006
01:06:43.039 --> 01:06:46.280
<v Speaker 5>bothered to read, including all the people who are supposedly

1007
01:06:46.400 --> 01:06:49.719
<v Speaker 5>making very clever remarks about the Greek Pyramids. But they

1008
01:06:49.800 --> 01:06:52.840
<v Speaker 5>hadn't read Vegon, which but even though they put him

1009
01:06:52.840 --> 01:06:54.480
<v Speaker 5>in their footnotes to make it look as if they

1010
01:06:54.639 --> 01:06:58.000
<v Speaker 5>at least they knew he existed. Yeah, And pretend that

1011
01:06:58.119 --> 01:07:00.000
<v Speaker 5>they'd read him, but in fact they hadn't read him.

1012
01:07:00.599 --> 01:07:04.679
<v Speaker 5>This is very common in scholarship that you stick people

1013
01:07:04.719 --> 01:07:07.840
<v Speaker 5>in your footnotes to impress your readers, to show how

1014
01:07:07.960 --> 01:07:10.280
<v Speaker 5>learned you are, but in fact you haven't read all

1015
01:07:10.320 --> 01:07:14.440
<v Speaker 5>that stuff. You're just sticking. It's a way of puffing

1016
01:07:14.559 --> 01:07:16.719
<v Speaker 5>up your feathers, you know, as if you're a mating

1017
01:07:16.840 --> 01:07:17.760
<v Speaker 5>pigeon or something.

1018
01:07:18.280 --> 01:07:24.719
<v Speaker 1>Yeah, but anyhow, Theodore Wygan.

1019
01:07:25.360 --> 01:07:29.000
<v Speaker 5>Determined you pronounced the W like a V, as in.

1020
01:07:29.039 --> 01:07:34.039
<v Speaker 1>Vogner, Oh, veg Gland Vegan vegan.

1021
01:07:34.400 --> 01:07:38.039
<v Speaker 5>Yeah, because you see the Germans they say Wagner, not Wagner.

1022
01:07:38.199 --> 01:07:41.599
<v Speaker 1>Okay, you're right. I should have realized that. But anyhow,

1023
01:07:42.239 --> 01:07:45.480
<v Speaker 1>he actually determines that the stone the face of these

1024
01:07:45.559 --> 01:07:49.320
<v Speaker 1>pyramids there is actual limestone, which is very important because

1025
01:07:49.320 --> 01:07:52.800
<v Speaker 1>that's exactly what the Giza is. But talk a little

1026
01:07:52.840 --> 01:07:58.320
<v Speaker 1>bit about what he excavated and his his uh, and

1027
01:07:58.400 --> 01:08:01.480
<v Speaker 1>this is in nineteen one the country.

1028
01:08:01.960 --> 01:08:02.159
<v Speaker 5>Yes.

1029
01:08:02.639 --> 01:08:05.880
<v Speaker 1>Uh, he actually determines the what he thinks is a

1030
01:08:06.599 --> 01:08:08.039
<v Speaker 1>hypothetical purpose.

1031
01:08:09.639 --> 01:08:13.880
<v Speaker 5>Yes. Well, he gives a very detailed description of them,

1032
01:08:14.920 --> 01:08:17.800
<v Speaker 5>of this one, the one that call that I should

1033
01:08:17.840 --> 01:08:21.079
<v Speaker 5>say that the pyramid of Kevlari also has a couple

1034
01:08:21.119 --> 01:08:26.079
<v Speaker 5>of other names. It's also called the Hellenicon pyramid. But

1035
01:08:26.960 --> 01:08:31.039
<v Speaker 5>because it's near the spring, the sacred spring of Kevlari,

1036
01:08:31.119 --> 01:08:35.680
<v Speaker 5>which is in a cave within walking distance, which none

1037
01:08:35.680 --> 01:08:37.479
<v Speaker 5>of these people I ever mentioned. But I went to

1038
01:08:37.560 --> 01:08:40.880
<v Speaker 5>that cave and saw the spring, and I and I thought, well,

1039
01:08:41.399 --> 01:08:45.279
<v Speaker 5>it's quite clear that these pyramids are always built somewhere

1040
01:08:45.439 --> 01:08:49.640
<v Speaker 5>near a sacred spring, which was a very common sort

1041
01:08:49.680 --> 01:08:52.199
<v Speaker 5>of thing to do back then. Now he says, he

1042
01:08:52.279 --> 01:08:57.479
<v Speaker 5>gives these descriptions, and then he says this shape was

1043
01:08:57.560 --> 01:09:02.199
<v Speaker 5>not unique in the are. That's the region of Argos,

1044
01:09:02.880 --> 01:09:07.119
<v Speaker 5>another slanted tower. In other words, pyramids stood on the

1045
01:09:07.239 --> 01:09:13.159
<v Speaker 5>pass between Epidaurus and Nauplia. They say Epidavrus. Now that's

1046
01:09:14.039 --> 01:09:17.239
<v Speaker 5>where the great amphitheater is, and people used to go

1047
01:09:17.359 --> 01:09:20.359
<v Speaker 5>there for medical treatments. I don't want to get too technical,

1048
01:09:20.439 --> 01:09:22.600
<v Speaker 5>but people who know about Greece will have been there

1049
01:09:22.840 --> 01:09:28.399
<v Speaker 5>to Epidavorus as the modern Greeks pronounce it, because modern

1050
01:09:28.439 --> 01:09:30.760
<v Speaker 5>Greek doesn't sound at all like ancient Greek, and so

1051
01:09:30.880 --> 01:09:32.000
<v Speaker 5>it's a bit confusing there.

1052
01:09:32.439 --> 01:09:32.920
<v Speaker 3>But the.

1053
01:09:35.039 --> 01:09:40.159
<v Speaker 5>And so the slopes are particularly useful with thick walls.

1054
01:09:40.760 --> 01:09:45.159
<v Speaker 5>When these have been raised without mortar as so called drywalls.

1055
01:09:45.239 --> 01:09:49.760
<v Speaker 5>So he's calling attention to this and the tower of Cankrei,

1056
01:09:49.880 --> 01:09:53.159
<v Speaker 5>which is what he calls the Kapilari Pyramid, shows a

1057
01:09:53.199 --> 01:09:56.560
<v Speaker 5>strange mixture of mortar and drywall. But what he didn't

1058
01:09:56.640 --> 01:09:58.760
<v Speaker 5>know and was later proved, is that the mortar that

1059
01:09:58.840 --> 01:10:02.840
<v Speaker 5>he found inside the pyramid was smeared in thereby laser squatters.

1060
01:10:03.680 --> 01:10:06.000
<v Speaker 5>You have to read all the accounts in order to

1061
01:10:06.039 --> 01:10:13.239
<v Speaker 5>find they keep disproving one another. But he says today

1062
01:10:13.359 --> 01:10:17.000
<v Speaker 5>the ruin is called helen Helenico, which you know the

1063
01:10:17.399 --> 01:10:22.159
<v Speaker 5>Hellenican Pyramid or Kefalari Pyramid is the same one, and

1064
01:10:22.279 --> 01:10:24.880
<v Speaker 5>it lies above the deeply cut bed of the river

1065
01:10:25.600 --> 01:10:29.800
<v Speaker 5>Camaros at the bottom of the foothills of Catania Mountains,

1066
01:10:29.880 --> 01:10:38.039
<v Speaker 5>two to three kilometers southwest of Mealy Cavalari. That's that's

1067
01:10:38.159 --> 01:10:41.800
<v Speaker 5>the Kefilari spring that I mentioned in the cave. The

1068
01:10:41.920 --> 01:10:45.000
<v Speaker 5>building rises up on a vertical plint which reaches the

1069
01:10:45.079 --> 01:10:49.560
<v Speaker 5>height of one point six five meters at the northwest corner.

1070
01:10:50.000 --> 01:10:53.239
<v Speaker 5>So the vertical plint is this stone base that's been

1071
01:10:53.920 --> 01:10:57.439
<v Speaker 5>made of carved in the stone to be the flat base.

1072
01:10:57.520 --> 01:11:02.439
<v Speaker 5>And he's measured that, and and then he finds out

1073
01:11:02.560 --> 01:11:06.119
<v Speaker 5>and the southeast corner is cut out vertically for a door,

1074
01:11:07.000 --> 01:11:10.000
<v Speaker 5>the stone threshold of which is lying smashed to bits

1075
01:11:10.079 --> 01:11:13.000
<v Speaker 5>in front of the eastern side. The right wall of

1076
01:11:13.079 --> 01:11:16.560
<v Speaker 5>the door shows two indentations for the wooden frame, and

1077
01:11:16.640 --> 01:11:19.439
<v Speaker 5>at the bottom points of the corbol there is one

1078
01:11:19.520 --> 01:11:22.800
<v Speaker 5>cut out each to receive either side of the lintel.

1079
01:11:23.640 --> 01:11:27.880
<v Speaker 5>Imagine having to translate this stuff. It's very technical architectural terminology.

1080
01:11:29.079 --> 01:11:31.960
<v Speaker 5>Via a corridor, One then reaches the second door at

1081
01:11:31.960 --> 01:11:34.479
<v Speaker 5>the left side of which I found four bolt holes.

1082
01:11:35.439 --> 01:11:40.520
<v Speaker 5>He's very methodical, and one now enters a seven meter

1083
01:11:40.720 --> 01:11:48.680
<v Speaker 5>square room. Seven meters that's about twenty yards square. One

1084
01:11:48.840 --> 01:11:52.560
<v Speaker 5>notices that here treasure hunters have dug superficially. A big

1085
01:11:52.640 --> 01:11:56.159
<v Speaker 5>smashed millstone of breccia is lying in the middle. Furthermore,

1086
01:11:56.239 --> 01:11:59.479
<v Speaker 5>one can see the remnants of thin partition walls which

1087
01:11:59.520 --> 01:12:02.079
<v Speaker 5>have been erected on the earth at the same level

1088
01:12:02.159 --> 01:12:05.760
<v Speaker 5>with the door threshold, made of broken rocks and poor mortar,

1089
01:12:06.199 --> 01:12:09.279
<v Speaker 5>which Ross, who was an earlier writer, was not able

1090
01:12:09.359 --> 01:12:12.039
<v Speaker 5>to see because they were covered in rubble. And so

1091
01:12:12.199 --> 01:12:15.399
<v Speaker 5>they're all trying their best to figure it out. These

1092
01:12:15.520 --> 01:12:16.239
<v Speaker 5>weird structs.

1093
01:12:19.560 --> 01:12:22.199
<v Speaker 1>We're going to take another commercial break to allow our

1094
01:12:22.239 --> 01:12:26.359
<v Speaker 1>sponsors to identify themselves, and we will return shortly with

1095
01:12:26.560 --> 01:12:31.279
<v Speaker 1>my guest today, Professor Robert Temple, discussing his newest book,

1096
01:12:31.880 --> 01:12:37.199
<v Speaker 1>The Greek Pyramids, The Myth That Was Real. We will

1097
01:12:37.359 --> 01:13:23.279
<v Speaker 1>return shortly. My guess is Robert Temple, who has written

1098
01:13:23.319 --> 01:13:26.479
<v Speaker 1>a new book called The Greek Pyramids, The Myth That

1099
01:13:26.720 --> 01:13:31.239
<v Speaker 1>Was Real, and we're learning about his own personal research

1100
01:13:31.319 --> 01:13:35.279
<v Speaker 1>as well as a history of chronicled sightings of these

1101
01:13:35.680 --> 01:13:44.199
<v Speaker 1>pyramids throughout the Great Ages, and there's no hieroglyphics that

1102
01:13:44.319 --> 01:13:49.399
<v Speaker 1>he discovers on any portion of the interior or exterior.

1103
01:13:50.359 --> 01:13:52.880
<v Speaker 5>No, but don't forgat that we've dated these to the

1104
01:13:52.920 --> 01:13:57.520
<v Speaker 5>Old Kingdom period and there were the up until through

1105
01:13:57.560 --> 01:13:59.960
<v Speaker 5>the end of the Fourth dynasty, they never had hieroglyphic

1106
01:14:03.520 --> 01:14:06.680
<v Speaker 5>The fifth and sixth dynasties did have in the pyramid

1107
01:14:06.720 --> 01:14:17.239
<v Speaker 5>texts at at Giza, I mean at Sakara, but there

1108
01:14:17.279 --> 01:14:22.479
<v Speaker 5>are no no hieroglyphic inscriptions known. But there's a huge

1109
01:14:22.640 --> 01:14:28.159
<v Speaker 5>mass of hieroglyphic inscribed material from later days found all

1110
01:14:28.279 --> 01:14:32.520
<v Speaker 5>over the Greek islands, in the Greek mainland masses and

1111
01:14:32.640 --> 01:14:36.199
<v Speaker 5>masses of broken Egyptian pots and all sorts of things

1112
01:14:36.239 --> 01:14:39.720
<v Speaker 5>with hieroglyphs on to show the extent of the trade

1113
01:14:39.760 --> 01:14:42.399
<v Speaker 5>that was taking place in later periods.

1114
01:14:42.920 --> 01:14:50.359
<v Speaker 1>I'm curious about this, Robert, because Vegan sounds very methodical

1115
01:14:51.960 --> 01:14:58.159
<v Speaker 1>in his description in his excavations. Wouldn't he have foraged

1116
01:14:58.439 --> 01:15:01.680
<v Speaker 1>through the outer air is and maybe there's pot shards

1117
01:15:02.520 --> 01:15:05.760
<v Speaker 1>that have an Egyptian marks on them, or you know,

1118
01:15:06.319 --> 01:15:11.319
<v Speaker 1>perhaps vases that are reminiscent of the Egyptian style at

1119
01:15:11.359 --> 01:15:11.800
<v Speaker 1>that time.

1120
01:15:12.560 --> 01:15:14.960
<v Speaker 5>Well, this is a very important point. Now there's a

1121
01:15:15.039 --> 01:15:19.600
<v Speaker 5>huge amount of later broken stuff relying around, because after all,

1122
01:15:19.640 --> 01:15:23.079
<v Speaker 5>we're talking about things that were built four and a

1123
01:15:23.119 --> 01:15:26.479
<v Speaker 5>half thousand years ago. Yeah, there's all kinds of stuff

1124
01:15:26.680 --> 01:15:31.439
<v Speaker 5>on the surface. Now, what one of them did describe,

1125
01:15:31.439 --> 01:15:33.319
<v Speaker 5>I'm trying to remember which one of these guys did

1126
01:15:33.399 --> 01:15:37.960
<v Speaker 5>describe discover it was later than Clark and Begone that

1127
01:15:38.479 --> 01:15:43.840
<v Speaker 5>there are remnants down below the Keppellaria Pyramid. There's a

1128
01:15:43.920 --> 01:15:49.399
<v Speaker 5>kind of big terrace area remnants of prehistoric buildings there

1129
01:15:49.560 --> 01:15:54.720
<v Speaker 5>which have never been excavated. And nearby, if you go

1130
01:15:54.960 --> 01:16:01.439
<v Speaker 5>down into the river valley, there is an ancient tower

1131
01:16:01.560 --> 01:16:04.319
<v Speaker 5>there which could even have been another pyramid for all

1132
01:16:04.359 --> 01:16:08.359
<v Speaker 5>we know. They found the base of it, but these

1133
01:16:08.439 --> 01:16:11.439
<v Speaker 5>things were all overgrown with brush and you couldn't even

1134
01:16:11.479 --> 01:16:14.079
<v Speaker 5>see them unless you cleared away all the vegetation. It's

1135
01:16:14.119 --> 01:16:18.720
<v Speaker 5>a bit like not quite as jungly as, but similar

1136
01:16:18.760 --> 01:16:22.720
<v Speaker 5>to the situation in Mexico and Guatemala with the Mayan ruins,

1137
01:16:23.279 --> 01:16:26.359
<v Speaker 5>that you could see pyramidal shapes, but you didn't know

1138
01:16:26.399 --> 01:16:30.640
<v Speaker 5>what was under all those vines. And I mean, obviously

1139
01:16:30.800 --> 01:16:34.600
<v Speaker 5>Greece is not a jungle, but you still had all

1140
01:16:34.680 --> 01:16:42.840
<v Speaker 5>these weeds and plants and vegetation covering everything, and nobody's

1141
01:16:42.920 --> 01:16:46.920
<v Speaker 5>done anything about it since we were there. To my knowledge,

1142
01:16:47.840 --> 01:16:52.079
<v Speaker 5>they should see. The Greeks don't have any money. I

1143
01:16:52.239 --> 01:16:56.199
<v Speaker 5>know this because I did some work at Delphi. I've

1144
01:16:56.279 --> 01:17:00.720
<v Speaker 5>discovered the original site of the town of Delphi, the

1145
01:17:00.800 --> 01:17:04.399
<v Speaker 5>prehistoric site, and I paid for some Greeks to do

1146
01:17:04.560 --> 01:17:11.560
<v Speaker 5>trial excavations which confirmed it. But I wanted to do

1147
01:17:11.640 --> 01:17:14.479
<v Speaker 5>a full excavation of the site because it was a town.

1148
01:17:15.800 --> 01:17:17.720
<v Speaker 5>It had been sought for two hundred years and I

1149
01:17:17.880 --> 01:17:20.359
<v Speaker 5>was able to find that and it goes back to

1150
01:17:20.439 --> 01:17:25.840
<v Speaker 5>twenty two hundred BC. And when I was talking to

1151
01:17:25.960 --> 01:17:31.119
<v Speaker 5>the Greeks, the Greek archaeologists, about what to do. They said, well,

1152
01:17:31.119 --> 01:17:33.880
<v Speaker 5>you know, we don't have any money we in Greece,

1153
01:17:33.920 --> 01:17:37.720
<v Speaker 5>because Greece is always on the verge of bankruptcy. And

1154
01:17:39.439 --> 01:17:42.680
<v Speaker 5>as a country, well, it was made much worse by

1155
01:17:43.359 --> 01:17:45.680
<v Speaker 5>the punishment they got from the European Union. But they

1156
01:17:45.680 --> 01:17:48.439
<v Speaker 5>don't want to get into politics. But they suffered greatly

1157
01:17:49.760 --> 01:17:55.800
<v Speaker 5>because of that, because of being forced to adopt the

1158
01:17:55.920 --> 01:17:59.079
<v Speaker 5>Euro which is no good for the southern European countries.

1159
01:17:59.119 --> 01:18:01.760
<v Speaker 5>But that's an issue, it's political, and I shouldn't even

1160
01:18:01.840 --> 01:18:05.199
<v Speaker 5>be talking about such things which which are only to

1161
01:18:05.279 --> 01:18:07.960
<v Speaker 5>do with today. But the thing is that the Greeks

1162
01:18:08.079 --> 01:18:13.159
<v Speaker 5>cannot fund excavations. They rely upon foreign sources of funds.

1163
01:18:13.680 --> 01:18:15.960
<v Speaker 5>So there's a British school at Athens, of which I'm

1164
01:18:16.000 --> 01:18:18.960
<v Speaker 5>a member, and then it was an American school and

1165
01:18:18.960 --> 01:18:22.880
<v Speaker 5>a French school, and I think a German school. And

1166
01:18:24.359 --> 01:18:27.159
<v Speaker 5>but you know, all that, all that funding keeps drying

1167
01:18:27.239 --> 01:18:32.119
<v Speaker 5>up because nobody cares anymore. Uh, we've all become barbarians.

1168
01:18:32.239 --> 01:18:36.960
<v Speaker 5>And and also there's this crazy movement to destroy Western

1169
01:18:37.039 --> 01:18:47.079
<v Speaker 5>tradition because it's considered equal. Somehow, I suppose that before

1170
01:18:47.199 --> 01:18:53.079
<v Speaker 5>long Plato will be accused of having been a slave

1171
01:18:53.159 --> 01:18:58.279
<v Speaker 5>traders of Barbados or some that's it's become sub ridiculous.

1172
01:18:58.840 --> 01:19:03.800
<v Speaker 5>But there's a foot in the academic world to stop

1173
01:19:03.880 --> 01:19:11.800
<v Speaker 5>anybody looking into European tradition and history and culture. And

1174
01:19:11.920 --> 01:19:16.319
<v Speaker 5>they say it's it's all it's too white and uh

1175
01:19:16.439 --> 01:19:20.119
<v Speaker 5>and that white is no good and therefore Plato's no good.

1176
01:19:20.159 --> 01:19:21.840
<v Speaker 5>You don't want to read him because he was he

1177
01:19:22.039 --> 01:19:25.720
<v Speaker 5>was a white male, you know, m hm. I mean,

1178
01:19:25.840 --> 01:19:28.920
<v Speaker 5>this is what's going on. So there's no money anymore

1179
01:19:29.039 --> 01:19:33.640
<v Speaker 5>to do anything, and so a lot of stuff doesn't

1180
01:19:33.680 --> 01:19:37.560
<v Speaker 5>get done. It's obvious that the area around, especially the

1181
01:19:37.600 --> 01:19:40.560
<v Speaker 5>cavalarip here, and that where we have already proved that

1182
01:19:40.720 --> 01:19:44.319
<v Speaker 5>structures exist underground, need to be excavated.

1183
01:19:44.720 --> 01:19:48.199
<v Speaker 1>And are you saying there's structures underneath this pyramids.

1184
01:19:48.439 --> 01:19:52.479
<v Speaker 5>Not underneath the pyramid, but underneath the ground around the pyramid.

1185
01:19:52.279 --> 01:19:55.359
<v Speaker 1>Around it all fascinating, So there could be a tunnel

1186
01:19:55.439 --> 01:19:56.319
<v Speaker 1>system or something.

1187
01:19:57.079 --> 01:20:00.640
<v Speaker 5>Well, a whole settlement that obviously it was an important

1188
01:20:00.720 --> 01:20:05.720
<v Speaker 5>site and there were structures where people presumably could live.

1189
01:20:06.199 --> 01:20:11.479
<v Speaker 1>So when you were there were there foundations or anything

1190
01:20:11.520 --> 01:20:15.079
<v Speaker 1>that looked like there was the buildings that were nearby.

1191
01:20:15.840 --> 01:20:22.159
<v Speaker 5>Well, I didn't examine those areas in detail personally, but

1192
01:20:23.399 --> 01:20:27.119
<v Speaker 5>my colleague Johannis has done so, and some of these

1193
01:20:27.199 --> 01:20:33.920
<v Speaker 5>Greek colleagues Greek archaeologists, and they have found definite traces

1194
01:20:34.279 --> 01:20:39.319
<v Speaker 5>of what are probably prehistoric buildings in the immediate vicinity

1195
01:20:39.399 --> 01:20:42.399
<v Speaker 5>of that pyramid. Oh my god, I can see below it.

1196
01:20:43.199 --> 01:20:46.000
<v Speaker 5>But nobody's done anything about it because no money.

1197
01:20:46.640 --> 01:20:49.960
<v Speaker 1>Yeah, I hear you. Hey, As we close, Robert, I'd

1198
01:20:50.000 --> 01:20:53.680
<v Speaker 1>like you to describe the dating technique that was used

1199
01:20:53.760 --> 01:20:59.239
<v Speaker 1>on stone. And it's known as thermal luminescence, and this

1200
01:20:59.479 --> 01:21:04.159
<v Speaker 1>is something that is being used more and more by archaeologists.

1201
01:21:04.199 --> 01:21:06.760
<v Speaker 1>But if you could give us a brief explanation, because

1202
01:21:07.560 --> 01:21:11.199
<v Speaker 1>you actually know the inventor, who I didn't realize was

1203
01:21:11.239 --> 01:21:16.680
<v Speaker 1>a physicist, and who developed this dating technique. Is it

1204
01:21:16.800 --> 01:21:18.039
<v Speaker 1>about twenty years old now?

1205
01:21:19.199 --> 01:21:22.560
<v Speaker 5>Oh? Yes, more like twenty five. Okay, so it's not.

1206
01:21:23.399 --> 01:21:28.439
<v Speaker 5>There's a slight confusion because the technique known as thermoluminescence

1207
01:21:28.479 --> 01:21:31.760
<v Speaker 5>has existed for many, many decades and is used on pottery.

1208
01:21:33.720 --> 01:21:37.920
<v Speaker 5>His technique is called optical thermoluminescence. So I'll explain what

1209
01:21:38.039 --> 01:21:42.199
<v Speaker 5>that means, Okay, He was originally a nuclear physicist, and

1210
01:21:42.319 --> 01:21:43.880
<v Speaker 5>that's how he was able to come up with this

1211
01:21:44.000 --> 01:21:49.279
<v Speaker 5>technique because he knew enough about physics, and he then switched.

1212
01:21:49.600 --> 01:21:52.920
<v Speaker 5>He became so interested in archaeology he became an archaeometrist,

1213
01:21:53.680 --> 01:22:01.439
<v Speaker 5>which means archaeometrist, that means the measurement of antiquity of things. It's,

1214
01:22:01.560 --> 01:22:04.960
<v Speaker 5>in other words, a dating expert. And he knows all

1215
01:22:04.960 --> 01:22:07.880
<v Speaker 5>about carbon fourteen and all the usual forms. But he

1216
01:22:08.000 --> 01:22:13.119
<v Speaker 5>invented this special form called optical thermoluminescence, which makes it

1217
01:22:13.239 --> 01:22:19.960
<v Speaker 5>possible to date some stone structures directly. And so this

1218
01:22:20.119 --> 01:22:24.439
<v Speaker 5>is how it works. I'll give you the very simple explanation.

1219
01:22:26.000 --> 01:22:34.479
<v Speaker 5>Limestone is basically crystalline. And as you have a limestone structure,

1220
01:22:34.960 --> 01:22:37.279
<v Speaker 5>or if you have limestone sitting in the ground, let's say,

1221
01:22:37.880 --> 01:22:40.640
<v Speaker 5>and you dig into the ground and you cut out

1222
01:22:40.760 --> 01:22:42.960
<v Speaker 5>some blocks of limestone and lift them up out of

1223
01:22:43.000 --> 01:22:47.680
<v Speaker 5>the ground, they are exposed to the sun and that

1224
01:22:47.840 --> 01:22:52.279
<v Speaker 5>does what he calls bleaching, because when limestone's in the ground,

1225
01:22:53.800 --> 01:22:58.720
<v Speaker 5>the crystalline structure of the limestone has what are called

1226
01:22:58.840 --> 01:23:03.399
<v Speaker 5>electron hole which get filled up by electrons. These are

1227
01:23:03.600 --> 01:23:06.479
<v Speaker 5>very seriously microscopic things. You can't see them with the eye,

1228
01:23:07.479 --> 01:23:11.399
<v Speaker 5>and so all these electron holes are full of electrons.

1229
01:23:11.880 --> 01:23:14.960
<v Speaker 5>But when you pull the limestone up and expose it

1230
01:23:15.039 --> 01:23:18.439
<v Speaker 5>to the sun, the sun bleaches it and all the

1231
01:23:18.520 --> 01:23:22.880
<v Speaker 5>electrons are lost. So you got the holes. And then

1232
01:23:24.239 --> 01:23:27.840
<v Speaker 5>if you use that limestone block to put it into

1233
01:23:27.920 --> 01:23:31.319
<v Speaker 5>a structure, you're covering it up again, which means it

1234
01:23:31.399 --> 01:23:34.520
<v Speaker 5>can't be bleached anymore because the sun's no longer shining

1235
01:23:34.560 --> 01:23:38.239
<v Speaker 5>on it. And then it starts to get more electrons

1236
01:23:38.319 --> 01:23:40.720
<v Speaker 5>slowly back into the holes again over the course of

1237
01:23:40.840 --> 01:23:46.119
<v Speaker 5>the centuries. And so he could take a sample of

1238
01:23:46.199 --> 01:23:50.760
<v Speaker 5>the join between two blocks of limestone, very tiny sample,

1239
01:23:51.119 --> 01:23:55.560
<v Speaker 5>only that big, and put it immediately in the black

1240
01:23:55.640 --> 01:23:58.479
<v Speaker 5>plastic bag so there's no light exposure to it, take

1241
01:23:58.520 --> 01:24:01.800
<v Speaker 5>it back to a lab and out the electrons as

1242
01:24:01.840 --> 01:24:08.319
<v Speaker 5>it were, and based upon the count, he can then

1243
01:24:08.479 --> 01:24:12.479
<v Speaker 5>use that as a clock. So when the limestone is

1244
01:24:12.600 --> 01:24:16.039
<v Speaker 5>bleached by the sun, that's like putting the stone clock

1245
01:24:16.119 --> 01:24:19.239
<v Speaker 5>to zero. Sitting the clock to zero, you put it

1246
01:24:19.319 --> 01:24:21.520
<v Speaker 5>in the building and starts that time goes by and

1247
01:24:21.560 --> 01:24:23.920
<v Speaker 5>it gets more and more full of electrons. You count

1248
01:24:23.920 --> 01:24:26.159
<v Speaker 5>the amount of the electrons, and then then you can

1249
01:24:26.279 --> 01:24:29.039
<v Speaker 5>measure the amount of years it's been doing that, and

1250
01:24:29.119 --> 01:24:29.920
<v Speaker 5>he was able.

1251
01:24:30.039 --> 01:24:37.680
<v Speaker 1>To actually determine that these Greek pyramids were dated around

1252
01:24:37.760 --> 01:24:42.479
<v Speaker 1>the Old Kingdom around twenty five hundred BCD or BCE.

1253
01:24:43.600 --> 01:24:45.960
<v Speaker 1>That's right, Yeah, just fascinating.

1254
01:24:46.520 --> 01:24:50.039
<v Speaker 5>Well, you know, there aren't that many prehistoric structures in Greece,

1255
01:24:50.079 --> 01:24:53.079
<v Speaker 5>and I've studied other Preistaric structures in Greece. For instance,

1256
01:24:53.119 --> 01:24:57.960
<v Speaker 5>at Dealthy, I now know how to recognize a preastark wall,

1257
01:24:58.119 --> 01:25:02.520
<v Speaker 5>and we did trial excavation of a prehistoric house that

1258
01:25:02.680 --> 01:25:05.960
<v Speaker 5>was at this town. I discovered in Delphi further up

1259
01:25:06.000 --> 01:25:10.399
<v Speaker 5>the mountain, and so I'm familiar with prehistoric stone work,

1260
01:25:11.279 --> 01:25:16.000
<v Speaker 5>and it doesn't remotely resemble these pyramids, because these pyramids

1261
01:25:16.039 --> 01:25:19.039
<v Speaker 5>are done by people who want to do pyramids, and

1262
01:25:19.119 --> 01:25:21.920
<v Speaker 5>it was only in the territory of August that they

1263
01:25:21.960 --> 01:25:27.600
<v Speaker 5>were ever built. Otherwise prehistoric stone work was none at

1264
01:25:27.640 --> 01:25:31.399
<v Speaker 5>all like that. And I also show in the book

1265
01:25:31.479 --> 01:25:35.760
<v Speaker 5>that the strange polygonal structure of the stones, the way

1266
01:25:35.760 --> 01:25:39.079
<v Speaker 5>they fit into each other, is not like what they

1267
01:25:39.159 --> 01:25:44.359
<v Speaker 5>call Greek polygonal, which is a bit like that, but

1268
01:25:44.520 --> 01:25:48.399
<v Speaker 5>it's very very similar to Egyptian political of the Old

1269
01:25:48.840 --> 01:25:53.399
<v Speaker 5>polygonal of the Old Kingdom, and I show photographs that

1270
01:25:53.520 --> 01:25:56.239
<v Speaker 5>I took up the Valley Temple at Giza with the

1271
01:25:56.279 --> 01:26:01.319
<v Speaker 5>same kind of patterns of stone polygonal construction, side by

1272
01:26:01.439 --> 01:26:05.279
<v Speaker 5>side with the photographs of these Greek pyramids, and you

1273
01:26:05.319 --> 01:26:08.520
<v Speaker 5>can see it's the same technique, just not so brilliantly

1274
01:26:08.600 --> 01:26:11.399
<v Speaker 5>carried out in Greece because they didn't have enough masons.

1275
01:26:12.039 --> 01:26:15.840
<v Speaker 1>Okay, fantastic. The books called the Greek Pyramids the myth

1276
01:26:15.960 --> 01:26:20.359
<v Speaker 1>that was real, I guess today has been Professor Robert Temple.

1277
01:26:20.960 --> 01:26:24.119
<v Speaker 5>How can people, let me just say how they can

1278
01:26:24.159 --> 01:26:24.640
<v Speaker 5>get the book?

1279
01:26:24.840 --> 01:26:27.560
<v Speaker 1>Yeah, I was going to ask him, ask you is

1280
01:26:27.640 --> 01:26:29.359
<v Speaker 1>it on Amazon? How can they get it?

1281
01:26:29.800 --> 01:26:33.359
<v Speaker 5>Well, officially it's published on this side of the Atlantic

1282
01:26:33.840 --> 01:26:38.359
<v Speaker 5>on October sixteenth. It's listed on British, French and German Amazon.

1283
01:26:38.880 --> 01:26:41.920
<v Speaker 5>It's not yet listed on American Amazon. But I can

1284
01:26:42.000 --> 01:26:45.520
<v Speaker 5>make a special offer to your viewers, Cliff out of

1285
01:26:45.560 --> 01:26:48.319
<v Speaker 5>friendship to you that if they want to order it

1286
01:26:48.479 --> 01:26:53.640
<v Speaker 5>from the publishing website itself directly, I will sign the

1287
01:26:53.720 --> 01:26:58.079
<v Speaker 5>copies and they can have pre publication copies one month

1288
01:26:58.199 --> 01:27:02.439
<v Speaker 5>before it's even published in England, where it's originating. It

1289
01:27:02.520 --> 01:27:06.279
<v Speaker 5>will come to America later, because I've got The publishing

1290
01:27:06.319 --> 01:27:11.159
<v Speaker 5>company has a distributor called Cardinal Publishing Group, and then

1291
01:27:11.159 --> 01:27:14.359
<v Speaker 5>it will feed its way onto American Amazon and Barnes

1292
01:27:14.399 --> 01:27:18.079
<v Speaker 5>and Noble and so on, but not at first, and

1293
01:27:18.199 --> 01:27:20.760
<v Speaker 5>you can you can't even order it from British Amazon

1294
01:27:20.920 --> 01:27:23.159
<v Speaker 5>for another month, but you can order it directly from

1295
01:27:23.239 --> 01:27:27.199
<v Speaker 5>the publishing website. So I should say the publisher's name

1296
01:27:27.520 --> 01:27:33.279
<v Speaker 5>is Egglantine Books. Now egglund Tinne is a wild rose

1297
01:27:34.159 --> 01:27:38.920
<v Speaker 5>and a great favorite of Shakespeare. And it's the only

1298
01:27:39.039 --> 01:27:41.319
<v Speaker 5>roads with aromatic leaves and if you crush them they

1299
01:27:41.359 --> 01:27:44.479
<v Speaker 5>smell of apples, and it's a wonderful plant. And so

1300
01:27:44.720 --> 01:27:48.479
<v Speaker 5>the book the publisher is called Eglantine Books, and it's

1301
01:27:48.520 --> 01:27:53.319
<v Speaker 5>spelled e g l a n egglan tyme t y

1302
01:27:53.680 --> 01:27:57.039
<v Speaker 5>n e egglen Tine books. So if you go to

1303
01:27:57.279 --> 01:28:04.000
<v Speaker 5>www dot Egglantine book dot com you can order the

1304
01:28:04.079 --> 01:28:08.319
<v Speaker 5>Greek Pyramids directly. A bit of postage is added, but

1305
01:28:08.439 --> 01:28:13.880
<v Speaker 5>the book is very inexpensive, and it's uh it's paperback,

1306
01:28:15.359 --> 01:28:19.119
<v Speaker 5>a large, larger format like that, and uh, and I

1307
01:28:19.199 --> 01:28:22.039
<v Speaker 5>will I will sign those copies and these would be

1308
01:28:22.159 --> 01:28:26.079
<v Speaker 5>only for your viewers to have prep publications signed copies

1309
01:28:26.119 --> 01:28:27.079
<v Speaker 5>before anybody else.

1310
01:28:27.279 --> 01:28:29.800
<v Speaker 1>So if they order it this is this is Arion Saturday.

1311
01:28:30.119 --> 01:28:31.920
<v Speaker 1>So if they order it the end of the day

1312
01:28:32.199 --> 01:28:35.199
<v Speaker 1>this Saturday, what would be the timeframe that they would

1313
01:28:35.239 --> 01:28:37.640
<v Speaker 1>actually physically get the book? Would you guess?

1314
01:28:39.520 --> 01:28:42.760
<v Speaker 5>Well, it depends how many of there are. I have

1315
01:28:43.399 --> 01:28:45.560
<v Speaker 5>a certain number of copies. I'm in at my house

1316
01:28:45.600 --> 01:28:48.000
<v Speaker 5>in the country, not going up to London the media

1317
01:28:48.079 --> 01:28:50.680
<v Speaker 5>I have. I have a stack of twenty of them here.

1318
01:28:50.880 --> 01:28:54.520
<v Speaker 5>Oh okay, and there's more in London in my office.

1319
01:28:55.000 --> 01:28:56.880
<v Speaker 5>I go back and between the country and the office

1320
01:28:56.920 --> 01:28:57.359
<v Speaker 5>all the time.

1321
01:28:57.760 --> 01:28:58.000
<v Speaker 1>Okay.

1322
01:28:58.800 --> 01:29:01.920
<v Speaker 5>Just think that people offices in New York, in Manhattan,

1323
01:29:02.000 --> 01:29:03.960
<v Speaker 5>and then they go back to the house in Connecticut.

1324
01:29:04.279 --> 01:29:06.560
<v Speaker 1>Yeah. For those of you listening, this is a very

1325
01:29:06.680 --> 01:29:10.159
<v Speaker 1>rare book, simply because Robert is very insistent in high

1326
01:29:10.279 --> 01:29:14.159
<v Speaker 1>quality photographs, and I will say that the photographs are excellent.

1327
01:29:15.079 --> 01:29:18.199
<v Speaker 1>I will actually have a small gallery. Robert has granted

1328
01:29:18.279 --> 01:29:22.479
<v Speaker 1>me permission to use a number of these photographs that

1329
01:29:22.560 --> 01:29:26.560
<v Speaker 1>he has in this new book, and you can see

1330
01:29:26.640 --> 01:29:29.840
<v Speaker 1>them on Facebook. Go to Facebook, go to Earth Agents.

1331
01:29:30.239 --> 01:29:34.239
<v Speaker 1>It'll be on both the international page and the group page.

1332
01:29:34.319 --> 01:29:38.239
<v Speaker 1>So look forward to those. The Greek pyramids, the myth

1333
01:29:38.359 --> 01:29:42.199
<v Speaker 1>that was real. Robert as always a great pleasure having

1334
01:29:42.279 --> 01:29:46.039
<v Speaker 1>you on the program, and I look forward to seeing

1335
01:29:46.119 --> 01:29:47.520
<v Speaker 1>you again real soon.

1336
01:29:48.520 --> 01:29:50.800
<v Speaker 5>Thanks a lot, Cliff, It's always great fun being with you.

1337
01:29:56.279 --> 01:29:59.800
<v Speaker 1>I've had a chance to review the photographs from this

1338
01:30:00.319 --> 01:30:03.279
<v Speaker 1>new book by Robert Temple, and they are not only

1339
01:30:03.479 --> 01:30:07.000
<v Speaker 1>very clear, but there's a lot more research that needs

1340
01:30:07.039 --> 01:30:11.079
<v Speaker 1>to be done. Not only are these megalithic size based stones,

1341
01:30:11.960 --> 01:30:15.680
<v Speaker 1>but as Robert mentioned, someone needs to do some ground

1342
01:30:15.720 --> 01:30:19.399
<v Speaker 1>penetrating radar, perhaps some light art scants of that area,

1343
01:30:19.520 --> 01:30:24.000
<v Speaker 1>because it looks like there could be other dwellings that

1344
01:30:24.079 --> 01:30:28.680
<v Speaker 1>are surrounding the pyramid. Well, no until someone does some

1345
01:30:28.800 --> 01:30:33.079
<v Speaker 1>work on there. Fascinating idea, and I you know, his

1346
01:30:33.479 --> 01:30:39.560
<v Speaker 1>thinking is that these were markers to identify the Argos

1347
01:30:39.680 --> 01:30:44.399
<v Speaker 1>area as Egyptian and Egyptian settlement. I don't know about that.

1348
01:30:44.680 --> 01:30:47.600
<v Speaker 1>I mean, you know, we're beginning to find as we

1349
01:30:47.800 --> 01:30:52.159
<v Speaker 1>look into subtle energy, toleric energy, that a lot of these,

1350
01:30:52.920 --> 01:30:56.600
<v Speaker 1>especially at Giza, these pyramids are sitting on lay lines. Now,

1351
01:30:56.640 --> 01:31:01.439
<v Speaker 1>I'm not saying that these these Greek pair is are machines,

1352
01:31:02.199 --> 01:31:06.319
<v Speaker 1>but they could have been certain types of communication devices.

1353
01:31:07.079 --> 01:31:09.680
<v Speaker 1>They could have been. I think he mentioned that they

1354
01:31:09.840 --> 01:31:13.640
<v Speaker 1>follow the pattern of a constellation. You know, these Greeks,

1355
01:31:13.920 --> 01:31:17.920
<v Speaker 1>these Egyptians were extremely bright. And if it's Old Kingdom,

1356
01:31:18.760 --> 01:31:24.800
<v Speaker 1>that's carrying over pre dynastic technology into the Dynastic period,

1357
01:31:24.920 --> 01:31:30.079
<v Speaker 1>and that is highly, highly technical, and I think it'd

1358
01:31:30.119 --> 01:31:32.199
<v Speaker 1>be great as someone went out to these pyramids and

1359
01:31:32.239 --> 01:31:38.720
<v Speaker 1>did some field testing with magnometers or scanning devices to

1360
01:31:38.960 --> 01:31:42.520
<v Speaker 1>determine if they're sitting on lay lines. That's just a thought,

1361
01:31:43.079 --> 01:31:46.840
<v Speaker 1>but what a fascinating topic. He's got another book on

1362
01:31:47.039 --> 01:31:51.760
<v Speaker 1>Odysseus that we're gonna bring up, and also in the

1363
01:31:53.000 --> 01:31:57.159
<v Speaker 1>early part of twenty twenty five, he's releasing a new version,

1364
01:31:57.199 --> 01:32:02.279
<v Speaker 1>an updated version on the sphinxmeness history and he has

1365
01:32:02.399 --> 01:32:11.479
<v Speaker 1>chronicled years of documentation throughout thousands of and I should

1366
01:32:11.479 --> 01:32:15.720
<v Speaker 1>says hundreds of people who have walked inside the Sphinx

1367
01:32:16.399 --> 01:32:19.760
<v Speaker 1>and walked into these tunnel systems. Remember we had William

1368
01:32:19.840 --> 01:32:25.359
<v Speaker 1>Brown on the program who did surface scans, ground penetrating

1369
01:32:25.439 --> 01:32:29.439
<v Speaker 1>radar as well as some other scanning technology and discovered

1370
01:32:29.960 --> 01:32:34.840
<v Speaker 1>significant tunnel systems underneath these Sphinx and the Giza Plateau,

1371
01:32:35.720 --> 01:32:40.960
<v Speaker 1>and that in the northern region there's an actual temple

1372
01:32:41.680 --> 01:32:46.479
<v Speaker 1>that is buried and he's been unable to get the

1373
01:32:46.600 --> 01:32:52.640
<v Speaker 1>authorities to consider digging or even looking for it. But yeah,

1374
01:32:52.680 --> 01:32:55.479
<v Speaker 1>we had William On a few months ago. So all

1375
01:32:55.560 --> 01:32:59.880
<v Speaker 1>these ancient technologies come on to bear when you start

1376
01:33:00.119 --> 01:33:06.319
<v Speaker 1>using scanning technology that can pick up frequencies. So something

1377
01:33:06.359 --> 01:33:10.439
<v Speaker 1>to think about. Hey, we're coming into the fall and

1378
01:33:10.640 --> 01:33:14.680
<v Speaker 1>we have one more visit that we are scheduled to do.

1379
01:33:14.840 --> 01:33:19.720
<v Speaker 1>That's the Sacred Temples of Mexico. That is November eighth

1380
01:33:20.039 --> 01:33:24.159
<v Speaker 1>to the fifteenth to the seventeenth. For all the details,

1381
01:33:24.239 --> 01:33:27.239
<v Speaker 1>go to Earth Ancients dot com forward slash tours t

1382
01:33:27.439 --> 01:33:29.640
<v Speaker 1>O U R S. This is a good one because

1383
01:33:29.680 --> 01:33:32.479
<v Speaker 1>we're going to see all these sacred sites. Many of

1384
01:33:32.560 --> 01:33:39.279
<v Speaker 1>these pyramids sit on to lyric fields, geomagnetic faults and

1385
01:33:39.560 --> 01:33:42.319
<v Speaker 1>they are active. So as we climb these pyramids, and

1386
01:33:42.399 --> 01:33:46.239
<v Speaker 1>we will be doing some climbing, we will fill these energies.

1387
01:33:46.880 --> 01:33:48.279
<v Speaker 1>This is a chance to see some of the most

1388
01:33:48.359 --> 01:33:53.560
<v Speaker 1>noted pyramidal structures in the Yucatan Peninsula attributed to the Maya,

1389
01:33:54.439 --> 01:34:01.159
<v Speaker 1>and we'll see places like Ushmoh, the fabulous Chichinitza, Ekbalam Mayapan,

1390
01:34:02.000 --> 01:34:06.159
<v Speaker 1>Sayil Lobna and many others for during the week, so

1391
01:34:06.199 --> 01:34:09.399
<v Speaker 1>we're really gonna pack it in. These are fairly close by,

1392
01:34:09.560 --> 01:34:12.720
<v Speaker 1>so we'll bust to these locations and it's gonna be

1393
01:34:12.760 --> 01:34:15.039
<v Speaker 1>a great deal of fun. For more information and all

1394
01:34:15.079 --> 01:34:18.399
<v Speaker 1>the details, go to earth Agents dot com forward Slash

1395
01:34:18.520 --> 01:34:21.560
<v Speaker 1>Tours and check it out. Any questions whatsoever, send me

1396
01:34:21.600 --> 01:34:24.880
<v Speaker 1>an email. Send it to Earth Ancients the number four

1397
01:34:24.920 --> 01:34:29.000
<v Speaker 1>of the letter you at gmail dot com and I'll

1398
01:34:29.039 --> 01:34:32.359
<v Speaker 1>get right back to you. All right, that's it for

1399
01:34:32.439 --> 01:34:35.000
<v Speaker 1>this program. I want to thank my guest today, Robert Temple,

1400
01:34:35.159 --> 01:34:38.439
<v Speaker 1>coming to us from England. As always, the team of

1401
01:34:39.079 --> 01:34:43.479
<v Speaker 1>Gail Tour, Mark Foster and everyone who makes this thing happen.

1402
01:34:45.359 --> 01:34:48.680
<v Speaker 1>You guys rock, all right, take care, be well, and

1403
01:34:48.800 --> 01:35:25.159
<v Speaker 1>we will talk to you next time. A