Speaker 1: All right, I'm back from Turkey. It's been a blast,
Speaker 1: and it's time to reconnect. I was thinking of we
Speaker 1: had some people on the tour that I had known
Speaker 1: for a number of years, and one of them. A
Speaker 1: couple of people were asking what's going on with Jindale?
Speaker 1: And Jen is, of course busy doing her own thing,
Speaker 1: but I have her back on the program. It's been
Speaker 1: a while since we had our in house archaeologists on
Speaker 1: the program, so I wanted to check in and say, hey, Jen,
Speaker 1: hey going on.
Speaker 2: Oh, you know, summer's at its end and prepping for
Speaker 2: the fall, pepping for the winter in the old weather.
Speaker 1: Did you grow any any produce or any flowers or
Speaker 1: anything during the summer.
Speaker 2: Oh my gosh, I grew so much. I did.
Speaker 1: I don't mean cannabis, I mean.
Speaker 2: I did. I grew my own heirloom tomatoes and I
Speaker 2: ripped out a bunch of grass and just rewilded it rewilded.
Speaker 1: Heirloom tomatoes are are those are the ones that are
Speaker 1: like for good for canning, or just so you actually
Speaker 1: can too.
Speaker 2: I do, I can and freeze. You know. Heirlooms are
Speaker 2: those ugly tomatoes that everyone sees and they're like, oh,
Speaker 2: that looks terrible, but.
Speaker 1: They they taste really good. Yeah, and they have a
Speaker 1: thinner skin too, so you're not chewing on the scan though.
Speaker 2: That's true. That is very true.
Speaker 1: All right, So only tomatoes. You didn't do any kind
Speaker 1: of other vegetable then, huh?
Speaker 2: You know I didn't because I was so busy. I
Speaker 2: renovated a house. My mom lives here with us now,
Speaker 2: and I want to do enjoy a little bit of
Speaker 2: this summer, so my garden took a back seat. I
Speaker 2: have a ginormous blueberry patch, so harvested tons of blueberries, blackberries, strawberries.
Speaker 1: Those are running wild on the property, right. They're not
Speaker 1: something you planted.
Speaker 2: The previous owner probably planted like ten bushes and they
Speaker 2: just grew exponentially. So now I've got this great berry patch.
Speaker 1: Oh my god, well wild berries. We should mention that
Speaker 1: you're now living in Vermont, and are you on, like
Speaker 1: it four acres or something.
Speaker 3: I'm on eight acres and eight acres well that's a
Speaker 3: big people.
Speaker 2: Yeah, yeah, that's pretty nice.
Speaker 1: It's one of those situations where you need to actually
Speaker 1: get a tractor.
Speaker 2: Right, Yeah, I've we have a couple of four wheelers
Speaker 2: that we use here.
Speaker 1: You living the country life now, which is kind of cool, fantastic,
Speaker 1: great to see. I want to mention that there were
Speaker 1: a couple of museums that I thought of you. One
Speaker 1: was the Istanbul Historical Museum that had these wonderful sculptures,
Speaker 1: these Roman sculptures that were gorgeous because the Romans were
Speaker 1: there in the Istanbul for for many years. But they
Speaker 1: also had and I posted this, they had a sculpture
Speaker 1: of Best, the god Best, a huge sculpture. He must
Speaker 1: have waited several hundred times. And I wrote about this
Speaker 1: and I was like, what the hell's Best doing in
Speaker 1: Turkey because he's an Egyptian god. So there's some strange
Speaker 1: history there that we don't know about, kind of weird and.
Speaker 2: Has some crossover. I think that there's a lot of
Speaker 2: that that happens. I mean, even if you think about,
Speaker 2: you know, how the Roman gods are really just you know,
Speaker 2: borrowings from all of these other pantheons, and that they excited.
Speaker 1: Yeah, they immortalized the Greeks. I mean the museums also Goebecy,
Speaker 1: Teppy and Krahan and Teppee were fabulous. They're just very
Speaker 1: sophisticated it's almost like they're the the curators have been
Speaker 1: educated in some school that we don't know about what
Speaker 1: we've done.
Speaker 2: Absolutely, they're reproductions of I mean the megaliths like blow
Speaker 2: my mind, and the reproductions of uh, you know, some
Speaker 2: of that stone work. You can really see the detail
Speaker 2: where you can't see it in the authentic stone stone work.
Speaker 2: I am like floored by that stuff for sure.
Speaker 1: Yeah. It's really a worthwhile trip. So hopefully we'll go
Speaker 1: back to Turkey one of these days. All right, well,
Speaker 1: let's talk about what some of your interests are. You
Speaker 1: sent me an article on on the glaciers that are
Speaker 1: melting in northern Europe, most notably Norway and what's being revealed.
Speaker 1: This is cool. In fact, it's funny because you were saying,
Speaker 1: they're telling people who are like hiking, be careful, stay
Speaker 1: away from stay on the trail, and don't touch anything,
Speaker 1: which I think is kind of funny. Talk about this.
Speaker 2: Yeah, I mean, this is kind of amazing. The reason
Speaker 2: I pulled this out is because I'm an avid hiker
Speaker 2: and I can only imagine what it would be like
Speaker 2: to come upon, you know, like some Bronze age weapon
Speaker 2: or implement that was being used, and that's kind of
Speaker 2: what happened in this article in Norway. So people were
Speaker 2: out looking around and hiking around and they came upon
Speaker 2: these this artifact called or artifacts called scar sticks, and
Speaker 2: basically they're just bundles of wooden sticks tied together with
Speaker 2: like birch bark, and they were used by ancient hunters
Speaker 2: to frighten wild rain deer and guide them towards the
Speaker 2: hunting areas. So they're these really ingenious ways that early
Speaker 2: hunters were trapping their dinner essentially, and now they're finding
Speaker 2: you know, they probably dropped them in place and you know,
Speaker 2: got said reindeer and you know, snow came, glacier moved
Speaker 2: in and they were recovered. Well, I think what's going
Speaker 2: to start happening a great deal more, especially as the
Speaker 2: glaciers are receding, is we're going to see so many
Speaker 2: artifacts reveal themselves. And the really I guess the thing
Speaker 2: that caught my eye was that the government is now saying,
Speaker 2: if you see a melting snow drift, make sure that
Speaker 2: if there's an artifact that's you know, emerging, leave it
Speaker 2: in place, leave it there and call the archaeology.
Speaker 1: Isn't that call like leaving it in C two you know, yeah,
Speaker 1: which is untouched, unexcavated, undocumented, I guess, right.
Speaker 2: Yeah, And that's just it. They want to document where
Speaker 2: these they're finding, these implements, these artifacts, so that you know,
Speaker 2: you've you've got provenience on these things, you've got a
Speaker 2: mapped location of where it was found, because the likelihood
Speaker 2: of finding other items in these areas is very high.
Speaker 2: I mean, these are well trafficked areas. These are areas
Speaker 2: that are still being used pretty consistently skien.
Speaker 1: In these areas or are they hiking trails or both?
Speaker 2: Well, I mean I think it's both, because you know
Speaker 2: they're they're talking about, you know, in cold conditions, you
Speaker 2: can still find these things because our winters, especially in
Speaker 2: western Europe, northwestern Europe, have been much warmer than they
Speaker 2: have been in previous years. And as you see, like
Speaker 2: you know, think of places like Siberia as the permafrost melts.
Speaker 2: I mean, they're already pulling out mammoths and dire wools
Speaker 2: and all sorts of megafauna that they hadn't intended ever
Speaker 2: seeing again. And the crazy thing is the tissue is
Speaker 2: just so pristine. It's been kept so well in that
Speaker 2: cold environment. I'm really interested in it because on a
Speaker 2: on a testing level, whether you know they're testing DNA,
Speaker 2: soil DNA, there are some really cool things that could
Speaker 2: come from all of these cold or freezing area items
Speaker 2: that are being found, artifacts that are being found.
Speaker 1: How how much of these glaciers is melting like must
Speaker 1: be major. It's massive footage of you know, like maybe
Speaker 1: ten feet shrinks down to few in I.
Speaker 2: Mean, it's it's a little shocking what glacial recession is
Speaker 2: looking like in northwestern Europe right now. Even if you
Speaker 2: think about what you know glacial recession is looking like
Speaker 2: in anti Arctica Alaska, It's it's fairly exponential right now.
Speaker 2: What's going on? So unfortunately their.
Speaker 1: Hygiene somewhere and there's like the the protrusion of a
Speaker 1: foundation or something. It's like they need to stay away
Speaker 1: from that, right Yeah.
Speaker 2: I mean your best bet is document it with your GPS,
Speaker 2: you know, mark it on your phone. If you've got
Speaker 2: really good service wherever it is that you're hiking, and
Speaker 2: you send the ac coordinates to an archaeologist and sure
Speaker 2: that they can grab it, you're making.
Speaker 1: A really good point. Jen. If someone goes up into
Speaker 1: those mountainous areas and comes across some artifacts or or
Speaker 1: the remains of a building or something like that. They
Speaker 1: need to they need to track it, and they need
Speaker 1: to post.
Speaker 2: It, right absolutely.
Speaker 1: I mean, are they suggesting that in the in the article.
Speaker 2: No, I mean, I wouldn't post it on like social
Speaker 2: media because you'll get some knucklehead that comes and tries
Speaker 2: to steal it, you know what I mean. I wouldn't
Speaker 2: do that, but I would definitely take a GPS coordinate
Speaker 2: of it. Coordinates are going to be really important, especially,
Speaker 2: I mean, it's it's water, it's glaciers, it's you know,
Speaker 2: scree rock fall and stuff like that. So it could
Speaker 2: move just slightly, but I think it is important to
Speaker 2: document it and the hikers, skiers, people that are out
Speaker 2: on the trails that they're you know, they're being respectful,
Speaker 2: I guess, is the best way to put it.
Speaker 1: I love that. It's very cool. Okay, let's move on.
Speaker 1: There's another article that you submitted to me, which is
Speaker 1: a new hominine bone, which are these hobbits, and these
Speaker 1: are human beings are a branch of hominin human that
Speaker 1: lived tens of thousands of years ago, but they're perfect
Speaker 1: in size, but they're just really weird. What did we discover?
Speaker 1: What do they? What were they?
Speaker 2: I am so over the moon about this story. So
Speaker 2: the Hobbits of Flores is what they're calling. And you
Speaker 2: know they they used to We've known about these folks
Speaker 2: for a little while. But the reason that this is
Speaker 2: so big is because it is a new adult armbone.
Speaker 2: It's peg to be roughly seven hundred thousand years old.
Speaker 1: Say it again, they find it.
Speaker 2: They found this in Indonesia, on the island of Flores.
Speaker 1: Okay, that's why I thought.
Speaker 2: Okay, okay, So it's extremely tiny. That's that's okay number one.
Speaker 2: But again, seven hundred thousand years old, that's that's pretty
Speaker 2: dang old.
Speaker 1: Give us a hint of what they think. The total
Speaker 1: site was like a three point five foot human.
Speaker 2: Well, the humorous bone is nine to sixteen percent shorter
Speaker 2: and thinner than specimens dated at sixty thousand years ago.
Speaker 2: So what does that tell us that they grew? Oh,
Speaker 2: they got bigger. Yeah, so and you know you kind
Speaker 2: of see their terminus around that sixty thousand year point.
Speaker 2: So seven hundred thousand to sixty thousand, that's a really
Speaker 2: big window a really big window. As far as how
Speaker 2: diminutive these folks were, they were pretty small. You're maybe
Speaker 2: looking it around. From what I can tell, and I mean,
Speaker 2: don't quote me on this, I'd say around three feet
Speaker 2: tall around there, a really light body size. So these
Speaker 2: this this person was very small, very acclimated to their environment.
Speaker 2: That's the best way I can say it. And Okay,
Speaker 2: so this is the other thing I'm going to say
Speaker 2: about this. These folks are island dwellers. So what does
Speaker 2: that tell you? If if this early human got to
Speaker 2: an Indonesian island, it means that they had some grasp
Speaker 2: of some maritime technology, whether they're you know, building small
Speaker 2: little boats to go from island to island, from mainland
Speaker 2: to mainland, whatever that might be. But again, what what
Speaker 2: is you know? I'm a crazy maritime technology person. I'm
Speaker 2: always looking for the maritime technology, and for me, this
Speaker 2: early human find just speaks to that, that knowledge of
Speaker 2: the ocean, that knowledge of seapairing.
Speaker 1: Yeah, let me ask you. In the photograph they show
Speaker 1: somewhat ape like the face of this hominin. Do they
Speaker 1: have an actual skull of one of these hobbit people?
Speaker 2: Not? To my knowledge, I don't think that they I
Speaker 2: don't think they do.
Speaker 1: Yeah, so this we don't have. That's just what drives
Speaker 1: me nuts about these guys. They create a face from
Speaker 1: an ape line creature just because it's so old. They
Speaker 1: you know, could it be looking like a Homo sapien
Speaker 1: sapient cranium? We don't know.
Speaker 2: I mean, as far as we know now, who even knows.
Speaker 2: I mean, there's there's no way is this is a
Speaker 2: bit of a leap.
Speaker 1: And it looks like leep.
Speaker 2: Yeah, I mean I think we can make certain, you know,
Speaker 2: assumptions like this was probably a darker skinned person and
Speaker 2: that you know, they were very adapted to their environment.
Speaker 2: So that's kind of what I would go off of.
Speaker 1: I think someone someone took a little too much license
Speaker 1: on here. I had the same problem when we were
Speaker 1: in Turkey. They had reproductions of what they believe were
Speaker 1: the Gobecley Tepee human beings and they look like cavement.
Speaker 1: They had bear skins on, and they had long hair
Speaker 1: and they look brutish. I'm like, well, do we know
Speaker 1: they've never found a skeleton in that area, so they're
Speaker 1: assuming this is what they look like.
Speaker 2: Let's just disagree from you know, those t shaped pillars.
Speaker 2: You'd think that the folks that were there were pretty
Speaker 2: well dressed.
Speaker 1: I mean, yeah.
Speaker 2: The reason why I say that is, you know, they've
Speaker 2: got that fox pelt down the front a belt. Yeah,
Speaker 2: they've got some sort of tunic that presumes that they
Speaker 2: were making, you know, some sort of clothing or something
Speaker 2: that looked like a piece of clothing. So yeah, that
Speaker 2: that's a that's a bad rendering. I would think I would.
Speaker 1: I kept asking everywhere we went in uh, Turkey, has
Speaker 1: a skeletal remain been found? Have any?
Speaker 3: No?
Speaker 2: They just not at that side. I mean that's not true.
Speaker 2: They've found portions of cremation, so like inhumation cremation, but
Speaker 2: those are like tiny pieces of bone, so there would
Speaker 2: be no way to make that kind of a determination.
Speaker 1: You know the same thing with this high it it's
Speaker 1: like they're assuming that because it's so old, it must
Speaker 1: be part you know, animal.
Speaker 2: Yeah. I mean it's so hard to say because I
Speaker 2: think they kind of just lumped it in with all
Speaker 2: early humans and how they perceive how folks that are
Speaker 2: doing these types of reproductions and renderings perceive that. And
Speaker 2: isn't that such an antiquated idea? I mean, don't get
Speaker 2: me started on Neanderthal. You know how I feel about that.
Speaker 1: I know, I'm just saying that, you know, we don't
Speaker 1: have enough bones. It's like some other hominins. We have
Speaker 1: a finger of them and all of a sudden, fingerbone
Speaker 1: of Denisovan begnificent, and all of a sudden they're huge,
Speaker 1: eight foot tall monsters. It's like, how do you come
Speaker 1: up with that from a finger bone? Yeah, I mean
Speaker 1: I should say I should be careful because that's the
Speaker 1: that's the alternative theory. People like Andrew Collins are like
Speaker 1: they're they're huge, huge, a hulk like bees of like
Speaker 1: will you give you this?
Speaker 2: Yeah? I think there are a lot of assertions that
Speaker 2: are made and I think that they're if if we
Speaker 2: could see folks teeth, I think that that would be
Speaker 2: a good indicator of you know, uh, cranium, your your cranium.
Speaker 1: They have a molar of replacement. Yeah, they have a
Speaker 1: molar of a beneficent and it's huge. So yeah, there's
Speaker 1: more specula.
Speaker 2: Well, and I would even say I would okay, so
Speaker 2: let me take that one step further. You can have
Speaker 2: big teeth, like I'm one of those people who have
Speaker 2: big molars I do. I have a special type of
Speaker 2: molar that most people don't have. There's so much diversity
Speaker 2: in humans there just is, you know what I mean.
Speaker 2: And early humans there's probably three million times more diversity
Speaker 2: because there were a bunch of them walking around at
Speaker 2: any given time.
Speaker 1: Yeah, we should give the scientists who are the curators
Speaker 1: who place these various hominin on display a break because
Speaker 1: they're doing the best guess work they can.
Speaker 2: They are, they are, Let's cut them a break. Let's
Speaker 2: let's let's let them off the hook.
Speaker 1: Unfortunately, the National Geographic and the Smithsonian magazines pick it
Speaker 1: up and go, this is it, this is who they are,
Speaker 1: this is it. Accept it. I'm like, oh, hey, really
Speaker 1: great to have you. Let's let's get you back on
Speaker 1: and more power to you as the fall months approach.
Speaker 2: You got it, Cliff, Good to be here with you, all.
Speaker 1: Right, Take care, Jim, see you, Cliff. It's always good
Speaker 1: to have Gin on the program. It's been a while
Speaker 1: since we've connected, and I wanted to check in with her,
Speaker 1: and I think you most of you remember her from
Speaker 1: other programs and so always fun to talk with her.
Speaker 1: Today's program is with Robert Temple He has written a
Speaker 1: new book called The Greek Pyramids, The Myth That Was Real,
Speaker 1: and this is a fascinating look at actual pyramids. There
Speaker 1: are five great pyramids in Greece during antiquity, and he
Speaker 1: has traced down and tracked three that are known, and
Speaker 1: today there's only two left. So this is a very
Speaker 1: important interview. And we also learn about a testing technique
Speaker 1: that can date this stone work of this it's called
Speaker 1: thermal luminescence. We're going to learn about this technique and
Speaker 1: why it's coming around and becoming more important for not
Speaker 1: only existing sites, but new discoveries in the world of
Speaker 1: stone masonry. We can begin testing it. So today's program
Speaker 1: is the Pyramids of Greece and my guest is Professor
Speaker 1: Robert Temple. Each year we support a number of different conferences.
Speaker 1: We have a new one out by megal Lithomania that's
Speaker 1: Hugh Newman's production. It's called Origins. It is scheduled for
Speaker 1: November two. It's a full day, it's ten am to
Speaker 1: seven pm, and we're going to learn a little more
Speaker 1: about it. Anything having to do with megal Lithumania is
Speaker 1: a must see simply because we're talking about a group
Speaker 1: of presenters who are noted authors, noted research investigators, and
Speaker 1: people who are in the know, meaning that they are
Speaker 1: either digging or excavating or they are part of the
Speaker 1: research material that is coming out from these sites. So
Speaker 1: we have the producer with us right now, and that's
Speaker 1: the old, the one and only Hugh new Men with
Speaker 1: us to talk a little bit about it. So, Hey,
Speaker 1: how are you doing, buddy.
Speaker 4: Thanks Cliff, Great to see you again. I hope all
Speaker 4: was going well where you are. Yeah, we're all set
Speaker 4: for the Origins Conference. We've got lots going on during
Speaker 4: the conference and beyond that of course.
Speaker 1: So what's the theme of the Origins What was the
Speaker 1: purpose in creating that over the as a secondary conference.
Speaker 4: Well, we originally founded it back in twenty thirteen with
Speaker 4: my good friend and colleague Andrew Collins, and we really
Speaker 4: felt that London at the time needed an ancient mysteries conference.
Speaker 4: I mean, we do Megalithumania obviously in Glastonbury every May.
Speaker 4: We want to do something towards the end of the
Speaker 4: year early November like Sam Hayn time, you know, Halloween time,
Speaker 4: and we set it up. We run it in London.
Speaker 4: London for many years really pushing back to the origins
Speaker 4: of civilization, especially because of Quebec, Lee Teppe and Carahan
Speaker 4: Tepe and things like that. But also we get into
Speaker 4: like you know, Mesolithic Paleolithic kind of theories. We have
Speaker 4: a mixture of academics and alternative researchers really just try
Speaker 4: and kind of question what was going on, you know,
Speaker 4: ten thousands or tens of thousands of years ago.
Speaker 1: Okay, give us your lineup and give us a hint
Speaker 1: as to who they are. Is Andrew Collins going to
Speaker 1: be part of the group. He's always part of it.
Speaker 4: He was part of the founding of Origins Conference, so
Speaker 4: he comes every year. And we have obviously Andrew is
Speaker 4: going to be speaking about his new book about Carahan Tepe,
Speaker 4: also some new research he's planning for a book on
Speaker 4: Stonehenge as well. And also we have Robin heath is
Speaker 4: just confirmed. He's like a prolific author from West Wales
Speaker 4: who's done some of the breakthrough stuff on the cosmology
Speaker 4: of Stonehenge and the British you know, megalithic culture, working
Speaker 4: on a geodyssey and the measurements and the remark He
Speaker 4: worked with John mish Shell as well for a very
Speaker 4: long time musil and the found one of the co
Speaker 4: founders of megalith Mania, really so delighted his company. He's
Speaker 4: also running the tour we do on the Sunday around Avebury,
Speaker 4: so obviously we've got him and Andrew the kind of keynotes.
Speaker 4: And then we have Caroline Wise. She's coming in from London.
Speaker 4: She's an expert on ancient goddess cults all around the
Speaker 4: world and she's looking going back into the Mesolithic and
Speaker 4: Paleolithic kind of goddess cults from this kind of ear
Speaker 4: especially looking at their artworks.
Speaker 1: And also have.
Speaker 4: Very special guest John F. White, who's going to be
Speaker 4: looking the very very ancient origin of mythology, going back
Speaker 4: hundreds of thousands of years in some cases. He does
Speaker 4: the Cregnford YouTube channel. He's brilliant. I mean we've been
Speaker 4: following his Me and Jay have been following his work
Speaker 4: for you for a few years and thought, God, we've
Speaker 4: got to invite him. He's perfect for origins. We've got
Speaker 4: Simon Banton coming in. He's lucky astronomer and he does
Speaker 4: all the cutting edge discoveries and research around Stonehenge and
Speaker 4: the ancient landscape of this part of the world and
Speaker 4: myself and JJ Ainsworth are going to be covering all
Speaker 4: the latest from Carahan Tepe, Beckley Teppe, the Tastebola culture.
Speaker 4: JJ is going to focus on the symbolism and the
Speaker 4: cosmology was I'm going to be looking at what was
Speaker 4: going on before go Beckley Tepe, you know, two or
Speaker 4: three thousand years leading up to when Gebecley Tepe suddenly
Speaker 4: exploded at the end of the last ice Age. Because
Speaker 4: people always say that there's such go Beckley Teppe came
Speaker 4: out of nowhere. Well we've got good evidence now with
Speaker 4: some of the sites, some of the actually visited ourselves,
Speaker 4: of a kind of progress coming up to that point
Speaker 4: through the Ice Age and then really peaking and different
Speaker 4: groups coming together at the time of Cabeckley Teppe and
Speaker 4: Carahan Tepe. So they're the main speakers. We're going to
Speaker 4: have a few other guests turning up and saying little
Speaker 4: things and yeah, it's going to be it's gonna be
Speaker 4: a good event. Live at the conference itself, you know
Speaker 4: in Pewsey Wiltshire or obviously we do you know, got
Speaker 4: it all on live stream which is archive that people
Speaker 4: can watch it as well.
Speaker 1: Okay, so if you get there in person. What is
Speaker 1: the fee and give us the web link so people
Speaker 1: can go and read more about it.
Speaker 4: Yeah, to get you know, the main conference in British pounds.
Speaker 4: This is if you just turn up, you know, you
Speaker 4: want to book a ticket to us. It's currently fifty
Speaker 4: five pounds just for the day and there's another twenty
Speaker 4: five for the tour, or we do a deal for both.
Speaker 1: You know.
Speaker 4: The live stream is only thirty five pounds, which for
Speaker 4: those from America, and that's about forty five dollars. That's
Speaker 4: the whole day, from like ten am to seven pm.
Speaker 1: And here do they get to keep the the files
Speaker 1: for that live stream, so if they miss somebody during
Speaker 1: the speak the program, they can go back and pick
Speaker 1: it up.
Speaker 4: Yeah, that's the yeah, they do. Yeah, we make it
Speaker 4: available you can watch it at your leisure anytime afterwards
Speaker 4: forever basically, so that's all covered.
Speaker 1: Yeah, okay, cool. Yeah, and I forgot that you're gonna
Speaker 1: go to Averbury the second day the tour that Negolithic say,
Speaker 1: which is very very core.
Speaker 4: Avebury is insane. I mean, for those that haven't been
Speaker 4: to Avebury, it is the largest stone circle on the planet.
Speaker 4: It's so big they've built a small town inside of it.
Speaker 4: It's the main roads going through it.
Speaker 1: It's that big.
Speaker 4: It's crazy. So what we do is, you know, it's
Speaker 4: a bit of a kind of you cooped up all
Speaker 4: day at conference, you know, an event, and this is
Speaker 4: a beautiful venue, mind you, but next day you really
Speaker 4: feel like you've got to get out stretch your legs.
Speaker 4: So we just a walking tour for like four maybe
Speaker 4: five hours, and then we you know, we all break
Speaker 4: you know, have a late lunch, hang out in the pub,
Speaker 4: and kind of enjoy the rest of the day at
Speaker 4: your leisure. So we kind of break it up one
Speaker 4: day for on talks, the next day a proper tour.
Speaker 4: But Robin heaths running the tour. So what he does
Speaker 4: he points out all the cosmology, all the astronomy, all
Speaker 4: the layout of the site, how it was designed, and
Speaker 4: the geometry and intricacies that they were working with. So
Speaker 4: we delighted he's agreed to come because he doesn't do
Speaker 4: many lectures.
Speaker 1: Now he's getting on a bit.
Speaker 4: He's just this remarkable researcher, doesn't I think it's going
Speaker 4: to be his first public lecture this year. He's a
Speaker 4: real legend in the Earth Mysteries and Ancient Mysteries Field
Speaker 4: and this part of Europe. So we're delighted is coming
Speaker 4: and we're really looking forward to spending a couple of
Speaker 4: days with him.
Speaker 1: Fantastic. So for more information go to megal Lithomania that
Speaker 1: co dot uk. All the information is listed there. If
Speaker 1: you can't get to England, the next best thing is
Speaker 1: to stream at forty five dollars is very very reasonable
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Speaker 1: Origins November two. Check it out, all right, good luck
Speaker 1: and thanks you.
Speaker 3: Thank you, clif appreciate it.
Speaker 1: It's always good to speak to Robert Temple. We had
Speaker 1: Robert on recently to discuss the serious mystery. He's also
Speaker 1: the author of The Crystal Sun, Oracles of the Dead,
Speaker 1: and many many other books, and he has just released
Speaker 1: a new book called The Greek Pyramids, The Myth That
Speaker 1: Was Real, and I have to tell you I had
Speaker 1: a chance to read it recently and it really brings
Speaker 1: up a lot of questions about antiquity, how we review history,
Speaker 1: what is left to us in the forms of ruins,
Speaker 1: those being buildings, pyramids, structures and just how history is remembered.
Speaker 1: So Robert, great to see you again joining me.
Speaker 5: Yes, and I look forward to meeting you because I
Speaker 5: always like to go over the cliff.
Speaker 1: Exactly what was I mean this work on the Greek
Speaker 1: Pyramids took place? When when was the research begun?
Speaker 2: Oh?
Speaker 5: That was several years ago. But I have a lot
Speaker 5: of stuff that I keep trying to bring out. I
Speaker 5: write too much, And I finally got around to doing this,
Speaker 5: getting into proper form and with all the pictures organized,
Speaker 5: and because it's very heavily illustrated, with the pictures that
Speaker 5: I took on the locations, and there was a huge
Speaker 5: amount of research that was required in old publications, and
Speaker 5: I had to study the mythology very carefully and decode
Speaker 5: a lot of it. So it's a huge amount of
Speaker 5: work involved. Perhaps I should say, as we're starting to
Speaker 5: talk on that subject that some of your viewers might
Speaker 5: say Greek pyramids? What Greek pyramids? Because I mean, if
Speaker 5: surely I started the book out like this, I say,
Speaker 5: people would be inclined to say, well, look, if there
Speaker 5: are pyramids in Greece, I would have heard about it. Yeah,
Speaker 5: But because everybody knows there's no pyramids in Greece. But
Speaker 5: as I often point out, what everybody knows is usually wrong.
Speaker 1: Yeah, I want to mention to our listeners that this
Speaker 1: new book will show. We'll give links and the information
Speaker 1: on it. But Robert has actually taken excellent photographs of
Speaker 1: the remains of two of what was thought to be
Speaker 1: five original pyramids in Greece. And the photographs are excellent.
Speaker 1: I'll be posting a few of them on the Facebook
Speaker 1: page or the ancient's Facebook. But what the school back, Robert,
Speaker 1: what are the legends of pyramids in Greece. This is
Speaker 1: actually the brilliance of your research. You actually trace the
Speaker 1: various points of reference, go as far back as you
Speaker 1: can and give us a sense of when this subject first.
Speaker 1: Because you're right, and you mentioned this in the book,
Speaker 1: Pyramids in Greece seem very odd.
Speaker 5: Well. The oldest surviving published description of a Greek pyramid
Speaker 5: dates from the second century AD by the famous ancient
Speaker 5: Greek geographical writer Pausanius, And so I give the reference
Speaker 5: and I quote all that he actually saw one of them,
Speaker 5: and he said it was a perfect pyramid, and he
Speaker 5: was astonished that it was there, because he only saw
Speaker 5: the one he didn't see all five. He wasn't expecting it. Now,
Speaker 5: as you just pointed out, the ancient mythological references are
Speaker 5: very elaborate and very striking, and they're repeated by many, many,
Speaker 5: many ancient writers over and over again. This tradition that
Speaker 5: long before Glasgow, Greece in pre in what they call
Speaker 5: prehistoric Greek times, in fact, before the Greeks even reached Greece,
Speaker 5: when it was the pre Greek inhabitants who were living there,
Speaker 5: about whom we don't know very much. That people came
Speaker 5: from the coast of Egypt, from the Delta region of Egypt,
Speaker 5: and they sailed first to Rhodes as a stepping off point,
Speaker 5: and then sailed up to the Peloponnese, which is the
Speaker 5: south of Greece, and along the coast until they came
Speaker 5: to the town of Argos, which was it's described as
Speaker 5: having been ruled by a king called King Geleanor. I
Speaker 5: was able to discover that Geleanor simply means king, so
Speaker 5: he was king king. It means king in the ancient
Speaker 5: language known as Karian, And we don't know much about
Speaker 5: the Karians and the other ancient inhabitants of Greece were
Speaker 5: called the Palascians, and we don't know much about them either.
Speaker 5: But the so what happened was that, according to the
Speaker 5: mythological tale which is told over and over again, these
Speaker 5: Egyptians turned up one day with a lot of fighting
Speaker 5: men in their ships, and they landed at a place
Speaker 5: on the coast of the Peloponnese, which even today is
Speaker 5: still called Pyrama, and they conquered the kingdom of Augus.
Speaker 5: And the head of this expedition from Egypt was called
Speaker 5: Danius da a Us, who's very famous in Greek mythology,
Speaker 5: and he became king of August. But he had a
Speaker 5: brother who remained in Egypt, who was called Egyptus. Well,
Speaker 5: that kind of says it all.
Speaker 1: And so.
Speaker 5: We've now dated, as I will describe later dated the
Speaker 5: surviving pyramids, and they are indeed of the prehistoric date.
Speaker 5: We've dated them to approximately twenty five hundred BC.
Speaker 1: Which is equal to the old Kingdom in Egypt. That's
Speaker 1: that whole period. So they're very old, yes.
Speaker 5: And so I had to study all the surviving bits
Speaker 5: and pieces of the mythology, which meant a lot of
Speaker 5: very obscure Greek authors. But then I'm reading them all
Speaker 5: the time, so I already knew about them, and the
Speaker 5: the details are very precise. They even name the town
Speaker 5: that these migrants came from. They said it was Chemys.
Speaker 5: That's in Greek kh e m m i s but
Speaker 5: often spelt ch e m m i s Chemists. Now,
Speaker 5: I need to explain what it really means to come
Speaker 5: from the Delta of Egypt. At that time in history,
Speaker 5: at the time I'm speaking of in the Old Kingdom period,
Speaker 5: there were no ports on the Egyptian coast of the Mediterranean. None,
Speaker 5: And the reason for that is that the coast of
Speaker 5: each the Mediterranean coast of Egypt largely consists of what's
Speaker 5: called the delta. And the delta is all the mud
Speaker 5: that's brought down by the Nile as it empties into
Speaker 5: the sea, and it's all it was. Back then. It
Speaker 5: was completely marshy and coverd and reads, including the thing
Speaker 5: reads known as papyrus. And then there were these huge
Speaker 5: sort of saltwater lakes near the end of the delta
Speaker 5: which were almost enclosed, and just a little tiny mouth
Speaker 5: leading from the lake out into the Mediterranean. And what
Speaker 5: served as the ports for Egypt were on the coasts
Speaker 5: of the of the lakes, not on the coasts of
Speaker 5: the sea. In fact, if you were savingly long, you
Speaker 5: wouldn't even see the ports because you'd have to go
Speaker 5: through this narrow mouth into the big lake. And only
Speaker 5: once you were in the lake, which you say, oh,
Speaker 5: there's a city over there. And Chemists was the main
Speaker 5: Egyptian port of that time, in a lake on a
Speaker 5: sort of saltwater lake. And so all the details that
Speaker 5: survive in the mythology are accurate. And I published the
Speaker 5: map in the book of what was important in the
Speaker 5: Delta region of Egypt back at that time in history.
Speaker 5: And even when people were going to Egypt later on,
Speaker 5: much later in the classical period, people like Plato, for instance,
Speaker 5: were going to greet to Egypt, this is two thousand
Speaker 5: years later, they were still not really going down into
Speaker 5: Thebes and all of that. They were going to a
Speaker 5: town called Sais, which was at that time the capital
Speaker 5: of the Delta. So they weren't penetrating too far into Egypt.
Speaker 5: They weren't getting south of the Delta really most of them.
Speaker 5: A few people would get to Giza. But and for
Speaker 5: instance Herodotus, who was in the fifth century BC, he
Speaker 5: wrote his account of Egypt in which he describes the Pyramids,
Speaker 5: but he doesn't even mention the Sphinx, the reason being
Speaker 5: that the Sphinx was covered up to it's chin in
Speaker 5: sand and you can't really see it from the pyramids,
Speaker 5: and wasn't taken down there, didn't even know.
Speaker 1: It was there.
Speaker 5: So the knowledge that the Greeks had of Egypt was
Speaker 5: very limited, mostly to the Delta regions, and so these
Speaker 5: people fled Egypt and sailed out to form a colony
Speaker 5: somewhere else and ended up at Argos. And we know
Speaker 5: that it can't have been any earlier than the Fifth dynasty,
Speaker 5: but it was probably when the Old Kingdom collapsed, because
Speaker 5: for one hundred and fifty years the Old Kingdom ended
Speaker 5: with the sixth dynasty, and there was complete chaos in
Speaker 5: Egypt and famine and drought and everybody killing each other
Speaker 5: and constant warfare and destruction, and everybody wanted to get out.
Speaker 5: So makes perfect sense that the dates that we found
Speaker 5: for the two pyramids that we've dated in Greece coincide
Speaker 5: with just the period when people would want to be fleeing,
Speaker 5: And there is archaeological evidence to show that the remains
Speaker 5: archaeological remains of sixth Dynasty Egypt survive in Greece because
Speaker 5: a seal of the one of the pharaohs of the
Speaker 5: sixth dynasty was actually excavated in Greece, and I described that,
Speaker 5: which proves that there was contact between the Greeks and
Speaker 5: the Egyptians at this precise period we're talking about. That's
Speaker 5: actual hard archaeological evidence which very few people know about.
Speaker 1: So let me just quickly interrupt you for a second.
Speaker 1: Was Argos populated by Egyptians who built my pyramids?
Speaker 5: Yeah? Yeah, so that's what I'm saying. That when they
Speaker 5: conquered Argos, they brought a big crowd of people with them,
Speaker 5: and they were colonists, and they turned into a city
Speaker 5: of Egyptian migrants. And so then they built we know,
Speaker 5: at least five limestone pyramids. Now these are very modest
Speaker 5: sized pyramids. They're only thirty or forty feet high. That
Speaker 5: kind of thing still not easy to build, and built
Speaker 5: in the Egyptian political style, not in the little much
Speaker 5: later Greek polygonal style where you have the weird blocks
Speaker 5: fitting into each other kind of thing, interlocking blocks. And
Speaker 5: so why now, these pyramids were very well known in
Speaker 5: the nineteenth century they were described on the front pages
Speaker 5: of British newspapers. Many English, German and French scholars who
Speaker 5: were walked around the Peloponnese, which was then called Maria,
Speaker 5: were visiting them and describing them and publishing engravings of
Speaker 5: them and so on. And I have an engraving of
Speaker 5: one of the missing three that before it was demolished,
Speaker 5: so we have images of three of them, and all
Speaker 5: this knowledge vanished, which goes to show how bad archaeologists
Speaker 5: are at being scholars. So you see, they may be
Speaker 5: experts in the archaeology of Greece as they know it,
Speaker 5: what they don't do is go and bury their noses
Speaker 5: in the old reports, in the libraries and the archives.
Speaker 5: These Greek pyramids were extremely well known one hundred years
Speaker 5: ago in Europe and discussed constantly and a great mystery,
Speaker 5: and many people were raising the mythological issue as well
Speaker 5: in connection with them. And then it just vanishes. Everything
Speaker 5: goes becomes very fossilized and orthodox, and you can't mention
Speaker 5: anything that can't be explained, or you don't get a
Speaker 5: promotion at your university. You know, you know what academics
Speaker 5: so like, they're they're in a state of permanent terror
Speaker 5: that they won't get promoted, that they'll lose their posts,
Speaker 5: that they won't get grants.
Speaker 1: That's the worst tenure their tenureship as well.
Speaker 5: Absolutely tenure. And if they say anything that's slightly odd,
Speaker 5: all their enemies will stick all those knives in their
Speaker 5: back and they'll never get the job. So there's this
Speaker 5: terrible enforcement of a brainless conformity in the entire academic sphere.
Speaker 5: In fact less so in science, but you still get
Speaker 5: it there. And it's due to the fact that education
Speaker 5: is shrinking. There's less and less funding for or universities
Speaker 5: and for professors and so on, Fewer and fewer professors.
Speaker 5: Nobody wants to have Egyptologists anymore, and they don't want
Speaker 5: to have Greek scholars, and they don't teach Greek and
Speaker 5: Latin schools anymore. And it's all out of fashion. And
Speaker 5: and in connection with all of that happening, nobody dared
Speaker 5: to mention the Greek Pyramids in case they were thought
Speaker 5: to be crazy. Because as soon as you talk about anything, oh,
Speaker 5: you're immediately crazy, aren't you, And then you lose your
Speaker 5: job and then you finished no career, Your wife leaves
Speaker 5: you you you have to say.
Speaker 1: Sounds like a soap opera.
Speaker 5: I'm afraid that the academic world is even worse than
Speaker 5: a soap opera. It's a soap horror opera because the
Speaker 5: the duplicity and treachery in the academic world, and the
Speaker 5: and the the infighting and the way they stab each
Speaker 5: other in the back is worse than politics. But that's
Speaker 5: about that.
Speaker 1: Yeah, I I want to in a minute here, I
Speaker 1: want to get to Edward Daniel Clark's work, because you
Speaker 1: really highlight him as one of the profound archaeologists who
Speaker 1: gives us really good details. But before we get to him,
Speaker 1: can you provide any reference that is discussed either as
Speaker 1: myth or legends about these five pyramids? And perhaps what
Speaker 1: isn't in the book you can provide a little further
Speaker 1: after your research in that why would they build them?
Speaker 1: Number one? Are they are they solid? Or are they
Speaker 1: like the Great Pyramids of Giza where there's inner chambers?
Speaker 1: Which is very very important for a lot of us
Speaker 1: because there's something I'm fascinated in and more importantly, and
Speaker 1: you may not be able to discuss this is are
Speaker 1: they on energetic lay lines? Which is something that's coming
Speaker 1: up more recently to lurk energy. We know that this
Speaker 1: is people who are sensitive. There's new devices that can
Speaker 1: measure this. But I don't want to get too far
Speaker 1: ahead of myself. Let's talk about the descriptions of antiquity
Speaker 1: and the purpose.
Speaker 5: Why did they do this? Why would they go to
Speaker 5: the trouble of You know, it's quite difficult. They had
Speaker 5: to make these limestone structures, and they had to know
Speaker 5: how to make them have slopes that were going up
Speaker 5: to a point. And yeah, constructing a period pyramid is
Speaker 5: not easy.
Speaker 1: And also I should mention that much of the base
Speaker 1: stones are megalithic in size several times some of that,
Speaker 1: so they're not simple easy to put together. That they
Speaker 1: take up good engineering skills.
Speaker 5: Yes, the stones get smaller the higher up you go.
Speaker 5: They're very very huge, and these are on stone bases.
Speaker 5: And so they leveled the ground and they did a
Speaker 5: nice firm flat stone bay which was the foundation, and
Speaker 5: the two that survived do have chambers inside, and I
Speaker 5: described that, and I show the photos and the diagrams.
Speaker 5: It's all very fully explained. So the question is why
Speaker 5: on Earth did they go to all this trouble? What
Speaker 5: was the motivation, and there've been all kinds of suggestions
Speaker 5: in the nineteenth century as to what they were for.
Speaker 5: It was very soon rejected the idea that they could
Speaker 5: possibly be tombs because that didn't make any sense. And
Speaker 5: then it was suggested that they are military guard posts,
Speaker 5: but of course they've got no windows and they're facing
Speaker 5: the wrong way so you couldn't see anybody coming anyway,
Speaker 5: so that didn't work. And there are a few archaeologists
Speaker 5: who are so fantastically stupid that they said that they
Speaker 5: were farm buildings. Can you imagine building a forty foot
Speaker 5: high limestone pyramid to put your hay in? It's completely crazy,
Speaker 5: And so I joke in my book, because I live
Speaker 5: in the countryside in England, I think I'm going to
Speaker 5: go tell all my farmer neighbors who are all around me,
Speaker 5: you're doing anything wrong. Guys. All those hay barns you've
Speaker 5: got forget it. What you all really need is forty
Speaker 5: foot high limestone pyramids. And if you don't do that,
Speaker 5: you're just not in the swing. So of course all
Speaker 5: these ridiculous ideas have come up of farm buildings as
Speaker 5: the most ridiculous. I also discovered by the way, although
Speaker 5: I have not been there to inspect them, and nobody's
Speaker 5: going to do it anytime soon, is that there are
Speaker 5: four the remains of four of them in the Crimea.
Speaker 5: It seems that these Egyptians went up into the Black Sea,
Speaker 5: and we do know that they did because Herodotus specifically
Speaker 5: since that they went to the Black Sea all the time,
Speaker 5: and they even went as far as the eastern end
Speaker 5: of it, which is called Georgia today. Anyway, that's another issue.
Speaker 5: But the why would they build these pyramids and go
Speaker 5: to all that trouble, Well, I think there are two reasons.
Speaker 5: One is the psychological reason of them being a statement
Speaker 5: this is who we are and this is where we
Speaker 5: come from, and this is our symbol. We stand for pyramids,
Speaker 5: and they're they're doing many replicas of what they remember
Speaker 5: from home, and it's like it's like the international flag.
Speaker 5: But the other thing is they did have a practical
Speaker 5: use in that they were useful if you were sailing,
Speaker 5: you could see them, and for instance, they tended to
Speaker 5: be at key points and they're also always near springs.
Speaker 1: We're going to take a short commercial break to allow
Speaker 1: our sponsors to identify themselves and we will return shortly
Speaker 1: with my guest today Robert Temple discussing his his newest book,
Speaker 1: The Greek Pyramids, The Myth That Was Real, will be
Speaker 1: right back. My guest today is Professor Robert Temple, who
Speaker 1: has written a new book called The Greek Pyramids, The
Speaker 1: Myth That Was Real. His research, his augmentation takes us
Speaker 1: back to the old Kingdom of Egypt and the group
Speaker 1: of Egyptians who actually migrated to Greece. So they're not
Speaker 1: clustered together as what you've discovered. They weren't like in
Speaker 1: a grouping. They were spread over landscape.
Speaker 5: They're all separate from one another across the landscape, and
Speaker 5: so you ask about lay lines, and this is what
Speaker 5: I haven't done or been able to do, is to
Speaker 5: do proper links between them geodetically and to see how
Speaker 5: they connect on maps and study the configurations. This is
Speaker 5: what I haven't done in that I in my book,
Speaker 5: I urge people to try and do that. Okay, there's
Speaker 5: been some work done on one of them in terms
Speaker 5: of its astronomical orientation, and we because it has a
Speaker 5: door that's open towards the sea, because it's on a
Speaker 5: hill and you can look out and you can see
Speaker 5: just below you in the distance is the town of
Speaker 5: Argos and then the sea, and that is not oriented
Speaker 5: towards a sunrise or a sunset, or a moon standing
Speaker 5: still point or anything like that. It seems to be
Speaker 5: a stellar orientation of some kind. But this has not
Speaker 5: been fully worked out. So basically, I've gathered all the
Speaker 5: evidence to show, first of all that these things exist.
Speaker 5: I've come up with what I think are sensible suggestions
Speaker 5: about why they were built. I've decoded and pieced together
Speaker 5: all the bits and pieces of all the mythological lure
Speaker 5: to make sense, and combined it with the archaeological knowledge
Speaker 5: that we have that touches upon it, and put all
Speaker 5: that together and close it a lot of authorities, and
Speaker 5: it's basically, I'm like somebody who has made a coat
Speaker 5: out of a patchwork and it looks nice, what you
Speaker 5: could call a harlequin design, Okay, but it works. It
Speaker 5: is a picture. It's a very colorful picture. And it's
Speaker 5: not just connected with the town of Argos. It's connected
Speaker 5: also with the the fortified city of Tyrans, which was
Speaker 5: which is well known from the age of the Trojan War,
Speaker 5: and because the archives who came from Argos were also
Speaker 5: from Tyrance, and they went off to fight in Troy.
Speaker 5: But this is a thousand years later. And also there's
Speaker 5: a prehistoric site that's very mysterious in the territory of Argos, which,
Speaker 5: as it happens, I wrote about in a previous book,
Speaker 5: the one called the Crystal Sun, before I knew really
Speaker 5: about the Greek Pyramids. That book came out in the
Speaker 5: year two thousand and In it I talk about this
Speaker 5: mysterious place called Learner ellie R in a Now Learner
Speaker 5: is really bizarre. It's it's been fully excavated and dated
Speaker 5: to what they call Late Helladic two and we and
Speaker 5: then that's more or less the same time as we've
Speaker 5: dated these pyramids too, and it's it's got all kinds
Speaker 5: of mysterious things attached to it, but primarily it's important
Speaker 5: in mythology. It's the site of one of the key
Speaker 5: labors of Hercules, his second labor you know he had.
Speaker 5: He was given twelve labors that he had to do,
Speaker 5: and the second one took place at Lerna. And most
Speaker 5: people don't know where Learner is or what it means,
Speaker 5: because there that's where the hydro was. You cut off ahead,
Speaker 5: and two more grew in his place. You know the
Speaker 5: story of the Hydra, And I've explained the whole myth
Speaker 5: of the Hydra, which was all Learner, and it was
Speaker 5: all happening at the same time as these pyramids were
Speaker 5: being built and the Egyptians were there. I put the
Speaker 5: whole story together. And there is a sort of bottomless
Speaker 5: lake there. The Emperor Nero had a fixation on the
Speaker 5: place and he was determined to get to the bottom
Speaker 5: of it, literally, and he got these huge weighted cables
Speaker 5: and took a sort of small army with him to
Speaker 5: this site because he said, there can't be a bottomless lake.
Speaker 5: It's got to be a bottom. And he kept putting
Speaker 5: the cables down, the cables down, and the ropes down
Speaker 5: with lead weights, and he never did get to the bottom.
Speaker 5: And so that kind of drove me mad. Maybe that's
Speaker 5: why he burnt room down. But it's a place that's
Speaker 5: driven people man from time to time. This mysterious place
Speaker 5: called Lerna, and it had it was said to be
Speaker 5: the abode of witches and spirits, and they had weird
Speaker 5: ceremonies in the middle of the night there, mystical ceremonies
Speaker 5: where they blue horns in classical times to make the
Speaker 5: god Dionysius rise from the dead, which he was meant
Speaker 5: to do by coming up out of the water of
Speaker 5: this bottomless lake. There are so many weird stories in
Speaker 5: this book, and I've shown how they all relate to
Speaker 5: one another, and they all substantiate one another, and it's
Speaker 5: all to do with this fact that these Egyptian colonists came,
Speaker 5: and this the memory of them was preserved, even though
Speaker 5: they were a thousand years before the children wore.
Speaker 1: Yeah, let me ask you are has anyone done any
Speaker 1: cosmological studies to see if these pyramids line up with
Speaker 1: a certain constellation similar to the Orion constellation we see
Speaker 1: at Giza.
Speaker 5: Yes, my friend Joannis, who will talk about a bit later,
Speaker 5: who has the dating technique, and he did the dating
Speaker 5: thought that the one that I was just mentioning where
Speaker 5: you can look out to see was oriented to one
Speaker 5: of the stars in Orion's belt.
Speaker 1: Okay, so that's important to know that these are just
Speaker 1: not randomly placed in argos. They're actually thought out, well
Speaker 1: thought out.
Speaker 5: Oh very well thought out, incredibly well planned, and you
Speaker 5: can't build a structure like that without knowing what you're doing,
Speaker 5: although I do criticize the roughness of some of the stonework,
Speaker 5: because the architects were thorough professionals who were doing all this,
Speaker 5: but they were relying to a certain extent on local labor,
Speaker 5: and they didn't have the expert stone masons obviously that
Speaker 5: existed back home in Egypt. But they did the best
Speaker 5: they could in terms of that. But they managed. And
Speaker 5: there's no cement. This is all dry stone.
Speaker 1: There's no mortar or any of them. It's it's stone
Speaker 1: against stone, which is extremely difficult.
Speaker 5: Very difficult. No motar at all. Now there was there
Speaker 5: was some mortar smeared into bits of them much later on,
Speaker 5: because there were people squatting inside these pyramids, and and
Speaker 5: and they even dragged a grindstone in there. The people
Speaker 5: were living in them, squatting throughout the centuries, and in fact,
Speaker 5: until the ninth about the eighteen seventies, basically all five
Speaker 5: of them were more or less still in existence. Certainly
Speaker 5: the three of them were pretty much complete. And what's
Speaker 5: happened is that the local farmers as soon as the
Speaker 5: Turks lost control of Greece and it became independent, and
Speaker 5: the Turkish people soldiers weren't going around and shooting if
Speaker 5: you did their own thing. The farmers were free to
Speaker 5: gamble about the local farmers, I mean, and do as
Speaker 5: they wished instead that one of the first things they
Speaker 5: did was pulled down these pyramids and reuse the stone
Speaker 5: for their own constructions, or burned them for lime, to
Speaker 5: make lime from the limestone. So this is why this
Speaker 5: huge destruction took place. But I have an image of
Speaker 5: one of the three lost pyramids that was still in
Speaker 5: existence in the eighteen seventies, but it's completely gone now,
Speaker 5: although we know it was.
Speaker 1: Yeah, let's talk about Edward Daniel Clark, who in eighteen
Speaker 1: eighteen did some very basic excavation and came up with
Speaker 1: a description that you figured in his in his analysis
Speaker 1: of this structures.
Speaker 5: Go ahead, Well, Clark was one of the greatest of
Speaker 5: the nineteenth century travelers, and he was very intrepid, and
Speaker 5: at the time he was tramping through the Peloponnese, it
Speaker 5: was totally wild and there were lots of bandits who
Speaker 5: would attack you and rob you, and it was quite perilous,
Speaker 5: and so you had to be quite tough, and you
Speaker 5: had to have your guns with you. And in fact,
Speaker 5: I don't know what it was. Clark or one of
Speaker 5: the others actually speaks of taking a break from ruin
Speaker 5: hunting to go quail shooting in the marshes. You know,
Speaker 5: they were they were hunting game to eat on their
Speaker 5: tracks through the wilderness of Greece because you know, the
Speaker 5: Turks had only recently been thrown out, so that it
Speaker 5: was possible to get about, but there wasn't much to see.
Speaker 5: That was because everybody was in sort of shacks because
Speaker 5: they were oppressed by the Turks, you see.
Speaker 1: And.
Speaker 5: So these travelers weren't interested so much in the towns.
Speaker 5: They were exploring, for what was in fact, the very
Speaker 5: first time in what we could call modern times, exploring
Speaker 5: the terrain of Greek And they all carried with them
Speaker 5: their copies of Paulsenius, the man I mentioned earlier who
Speaker 5: described one of the pyramids in the second century AD,
Speaker 5: because Paulsenius is brilliant, and they all had their copies
Speaker 5: of Pausenius with them, and of course they could all
Speaker 5: read fluent ancient Greek, so they didn't need to need translations,
Speaker 5: and they they actually quote Paulsenius as they go around.
Speaker 5: They say, oh, well, we found the thing he mentions there,
Speaker 5: and he's their guidebook, even though he's seventeen hundred years
Speaker 5: earlier than them, but it's the only guidebook they have.
Speaker 5: And they're basically writing these very detailed reports on the
Speaker 5: topography and terrain of these wild places in Greece, which
Speaker 5: are so much of which are still wild today, although
Speaker 5: much less vegetation because the goats eat everything, as you know,
Speaker 5: and there's too many goats in Greece. But they they
Speaker 5: left these very detailed records, and they came across these pyramids,
Speaker 5: and they discussed them at length, and the Germans were
Speaker 5: doing a lot of that, and so I had to
Speaker 5: translate all the German stuff, and I criticized some of
Speaker 5: the early scholars because they, for instance, there was one
Speaker 5: German who wrote a detailed description of one of the pyramids,
Speaker 5: and he's he's always listed in their footnotes, but nobody
Speaker 5: ever quotes him. And that's because they either couldn't read
Speaker 5: German or couldn't be bothered to try and read the German.
Speaker 5: And so what I've done with him is I've I've
Speaker 5: published the entire thing that he wrote in German, I
Speaker 5: translated into English, and I put it as an appendix,
Speaker 5: and I pointed out that if the guys that were
Speaker 5: putting him in their footnotes had actually read what he said,
Speaker 5: they would know that some of the things they were
Speaker 5: speculating about weren't you, because the already disproved them. But
Speaker 5: they didn't know that because they couldn't read couldn't read
Speaker 5: the Germans. So it was very time consuming. And Clark
Speaker 5: published many volumes of his travels in Greece and in
Speaker 5: several editions, and I had to get I think it
Speaker 5: was volume three or was it volume six, something like that.
Speaker 5: It's all in the book, and I had to get
Speaker 5: a certain edition. And because he then he moves on,
Speaker 5: you see minions having the other volumes because there won't
Speaker 5: be any pyramids because he's already left the territory of
Speaker 5: Argos by then. And all the references of the early
Speaker 5: scholars are very brief. They give only surnames, they don't
Speaker 5: give any first names, So you have to do a
Speaker 5: lot of research to find out, well, who is this guy,
Speaker 5: for instance, And then you get a footnote says Clark,
Speaker 5: and you have to find out what which Clark is
Speaker 5: he talking about. I had to discover Clark.
Speaker 1: Yeah, he did a lot of he did a lot
Speaker 1: of research.
Speaker 5: Yeah, and so in my book I give the complete,
Speaker 5: full names and full dates of everybody that ever discussed
Speaker 5: the Greek pyramids, whereas that was completely unavailable before, and
Speaker 5: it took me forever to find them, especially with some
Speaker 5: of the Germans. Some of those German scholars are very
Speaker 5: obscure and you don't necessarily come up with them on well,
Speaker 5: they wouldn't be listed on Wikipedia, and it's hard to
Speaker 5: find them on the indet because the Internet is English
Speaker 5: language biased. As you know. It's also full of errors.
Speaker 5: I mean, never rely upon Wikipedia for anything because they
Speaker 5: make so many mistakes and they're very complete. In fact,
Speaker 5: I have a very low opinion of them, but they
Speaker 5: are useful for a lot of basic information. So it
Speaker 5: was it was very difficult, and I had to spend
Speaker 5: a lot of time in the British Library hunting down
Speaker 5: these guys. So you get a whole list, you might
Speaker 5: have one hundred and fifty guys with that same surname,
Speaker 5: and you have to look at every entry to find
Speaker 5: the word Greece in there somewhere, and then you have
Speaker 5: to order the books and wait for them, and you
Speaker 5: can only get so many of the time. It takes
Speaker 5: absolutely forever to put these pieces of jigsaw together.
Speaker 1: Is that how you found Theodore Wigan the guy again?
Speaker 5: Yeah, he's the guy that they never bothered to read.
Speaker 1: Well, t I want you to talk about him because
Speaker 1: he actually excavated one of the pyramids, Cafalari, the Caffilari Pyramids,
Speaker 1: which is one of the names for these Egyptian pyramids
Speaker 1: in nineteen oh one.
Speaker 5: Yes, and he actually came up.
Speaker 1: With in your and you write about this what he
Speaker 1: believed was the purpose.
Speaker 5: Yeah, we'll talk about him. So first of all, I'll
Speaker 5: show you. This is the front of the book, which
Speaker 5: is the Pyramids, and Appendix two at the back is
Speaker 5: my translation of the Complete Account of the Pyramids by Vgon, Yeah,
Speaker 5: in English for the very first time. And so, as
Speaker 5: you said, he is full of information, but information that
Speaker 5: until I translated it, nobody in the English language ever
Speaker 5: bothered to read, including all the people who are supposedly
Speaker 5: making very clever remarks about the Greek Pyramids. But they
Speaker 5: hadn't read Vegon, which but even though they put him
Speaker 5: in their footnotes to make it look as if they
Speaker 5: at least they knew he existed. Yeah, And pretend that
Speaker 5: they'd read him, but in fact they hadn't read him.
Speaker 5: This is very common in scholarship that you stick people
Speaker 5: in your footnotes to impress your readers, to show how
Speaker 5: learned you are, but in fact you haven't read all
Speaker 5: that stuff. You're just sticking. It's a way of puffing
Speaker 5: up your feathers, you know, as if you're a mating
Speaker 5: pigeon or something.
Speaker 1: Yeah, but anyhow, Theodore Wygan.
Speaker 5: Determined you pronounced the W like a V, as in.
Speaker 1: Vogner, Oh, veg Gland Vegan vegan.
Speaker 5: Yeah, because you see the Germans they say Wagner, not Wagner.
Speaker 1: Okay, you're right. I should have realized that. But anyhow,
Speaker 1: he actually determines that the stone the face of these
Speaker 1: pyramids there is actual limestone, which is very important because
Speaker 1: that's exactly what the Giza is. But talk a little
Speaker 1: bit about what he excavated and his his uh, and
Speaker 1: this is in nineteen one the country.
Speaker 5: Yes.
Speaker 1: Uh, he actually determines the what he thinks is a
Speaker 1: hypothetical purpose.
Speaker 5: Yes. Well, he gives a very detailed description of them,
Speaker 5: of this one, the one that call that I should
Speaker 5: say that the pyramid of Kevlari also has a couple
Speaker 5: of other names. It's also called the Hellenicon pyramid. But
Speaker 5: because it's near the spring, the sacred spring of Kevlari,
Speaker 5: which is in a cave within walking distance, which none
Speaker 5: of these people I ever mentioned. But I went to
Speaker 5: that cave and saw the spring, and I and I thought, well,
Speaker 5: it's quite clear that these pyramids are always built somewhere
Speaker 5: near a sacred spring, which was a very common sort
Speaker 5: of thing to do back then. Now he says, he
Speaker 5: gives these descriptions, and then he says this shape was
Speaker 5: not unique in the are. That's the region of Argos,
Speaker 5: another slanted tower. In other words, pyramids stood on the
Speaker 5: pass between Epidaurus and Nauplia. They say Epidavrus. Now that's
Speaker 5: where the great amphitheater is, and people used to go
Speaker 5: there for medical treatments. I don't want to get too technical,
Speaker 5: but people who know about Greece will have been there
Speaker 5: to Epidavorus as the modern Greeks pronounce it, because modern
Speaker 5: Greek doesn't sound at all like ancient Greek, and so
Speaker 5: it's a bit confusing there.
Speaker 3: But the.
Speaker 5: And so the slopes are particularly useful with thick walls.
Speaker 5: When these have been raised without mortar as so called drywalls.
Speaker 5: So he's calling attention to this and the tower of Cankrei,
Speaker 5: which is what he calls the Kapilari Pyramid, shows a
Speaker 5: strange mixture of mortar and drywall. But what he didn't
Speaker 5: know and was later proved, is that the mortar that
Speaker 5: he found inside the pyramid was smeared in thereby laser squatters.
Speaker 5: You have to read all the accounts in order to
Speaker 5: find they keep disproving one another. But he says today
Speaker 5: the ruin is called helen Helenico, which you know the
Speaker 5: Hellenican Pyramid or Kefalari Pyramid is the same one, and
Speaker 5: it lies above the deeply cut bed of the river
Speaker 5: Camaros at the bottom of the foothills of Catania Mountains,
Speaker 5: two to three kilometers southwest of Mealy Cavalari. That's that's
Speaker 5: the Kefilari spring that I mentioned in the cave. The
Speaker 5: building rises up on a vertical plint which reaches the
Speaker 5: height of one point six five meters at the northwest corner.
Speaker 5: So the vertical plint is this stone base that's been
Speaker 5: made of carved in the stone to be the flat base.
Speaker 5: And he's measured that, and and then he finds out
Speaker 5: and the southeast corner is cut out vertically for a door,
Speaker 5: the stone threshold of which is lying smashed to bits
Speaker 5: in front of the eastern side. The right wall of
Speaker 5: the door shows two indentations for the wooden frame, and
Speaker 5: at the bottom points of the corbol there is one
Speaker 5: cut out each to receive either side of the lintel.
Speaker 5: Imagine having to translate this stuff. It's very technical architectural terminology.
Speaker 5: Via a corridor, One then reaches the second door at
Speaker 5: the left side of which I found four bolt holes.
Speaker 5: He's very methodical, and one now enters a seven meter
Speaker 5: square room. Seven meters that's about twenty yards square. One
Speaker 5: notices that here treasure hunters have dug superficially. A big
Speaker 5: smashed millstone of breccia is lying in the middle. Furthermore,
Speaker 5: one can see the remnants of thin partition walls which
Speaker 5: have been erected on the earth at the same level
Speaker 5: with the door threshold, made of broken rocks and poor mortar,
Speaker 5: which Ross, who was an earlier writer, was not able
Speaker 5: to see because they were covered in rubble. And so
Speaker 5: they're all trying their best to figure it out. These
Speaker 5: weird structs.
Speaker 1: We're going to take another commercial break to allow our
Speaker 1: sponsors to identify themselves, and we will return shortly with
Speaker 1: my guest today, Professor Robert Temple, discussing his newest book,
Speaker 1: The Greek Pyramids, The Myth That Was Real. We will
Speaker 1: return shortly. My guess is Robert Temple, who has written
Speaker 1: a new book called The Greek Pyramids, The Myth That
Speaker 1: Was Real, and we're learning about his own personal research
Speaker 1: as well as a history of chronicled sightings of these
Speaker 1: pyramids throughout the Great Ages, and there's no hieroglyphics that
Speaker 1: he discovers on any portion of the interior or exterior.
Speaker 5: No, but don't forgat that we've dated these to the
Speaker 5: Old Kingdom period and there were the up until through
Speaker 5: the end of the Fourth dynasty, they never had hieroglyphic
Speaker 5: The fifth and sixth dynasties did have in the pyramid
Speaker 5: texts at at Giza, I mean at Sakara, but there
Speaker 5: are no no hieroglyphic inscriptions known. But there's a huge
Speaker 5: mass of hieroglyphic inscribed material from later days found all
Speaker 5: over the Greek islands, in the Greek mainland masses and
Speaker 5: masses of broken Egyptian pots and all sorts of things
Speaker 5: with hieroglyphs on to show the extent of the trade
Speaker 5: that was taking place in later periods.
Speaker 1: I'm curious about this, Robert, because Vegan sounds very methodical
Speaker 1: in his description in his excavations. Wouldn't he have foraged
Speaker 1: through the outer air is and maybe there's pot shards
Speaker 1: that have an Egyptian marks on them, or you know,
Speaker 1: perhaps vases that are reminiscent of the Egyptian style at
Speaker 1: that time.
Speaker 5: Well, this is a very important point. Now there's a
Speaker 5: huge amount of later broken stuff relying around, because after all,
Speaker 5: we're talking about things that were built four and a
Speaker 5: half thousand years ago. Yeah, there's all kinds of stuff
Speaker 5: on the surface. Now, what one of them did describe,
Speaker 5: I'm trying to remember which one of these guys did
Speaker 5: describe discover it was later than Clark and Begone that
Speaker 5: there are remnants down below the Keppellaria Pyramid. There's a
Speaker 5: kind of big terrace area remnants of prehistoric buildings there
Speaker 5: which have never been excavated. And nearby, if you go
Speaker 5: down into the river valley, there is an ancient tower
Speaker 5: there which could even have been another pyramid for all
Speaker 5: we know. They found the base of it, but these
Speaker 5: things were all overgrown with brush and you couldn't even
Speaker 5: see them unless you cleared away all the vegetation. It's
Speaker 5: a bit like not quite as jungly as, but similar
Speaker 5: to the situation in Mexico and Guatemala with the Mayan ruins,
Speaker 5: that you could see pyramidal shapes, but you didn't know
Speaker 5: what was under all those vines. And I mean, obviously
Speaker 5: Greece is not a jungle, but you still had all
Speaker 5: these weeds and plants and vegetation covering everything, and nobody's
Speaker 5: done anything about it since we were there. To my knowledge,
Speaker 5: they should see. The Greeks don't have any money. I
Speaker 5: know this because I did some work at Delphi. I've
Speaker 5: discovered the original site of the town of Delphi, the
Speaker 5: prehistoric site, and I paid for some Greeks to do
Speaker 5: trial excavations which confirmed it. But I wanted to do
Speaker 5: a full excavation of the site because it was a town.
Speaker 5: It had been sought for two hundred years and I
Speaker 5: was able to find that and it goes back to
Speaker 5: twenty two hundred BC. And when I was talking to
Speaker 5: the Greeks, the Greek archaeologists, about what to do. They said, well,
Speaker 5: you know, we don't have any money we in Greece,
Speaker 5: because Greece is always on the verge of bankruptcy. And
Speaker 5: as a country, well, it was made much worse by
Speaker 5: the punishment they got from the European Union. But they
Speaker 5: don't want to get into politics. But they suffered greatly
Speaker 5: because of that, because of being forced to adopt the
Speaker 5: Euro which is no good for the southern European countries.
Speaker 5: But that's an issue, it's political, and I shouldn't even
Speaker 5: be talking about such things which which are only to
Speaker 5: do with today. But the thing is that the Greeks
Speaker 5: cannot fund excavations. They rely upon foreign sources of funds.
Speaker 5: So there's a British school at Athens, of which I'm
Speaker 5: a member, and then it was an American school and
Speaker 5: a French school, and I think a German school. And
Speaker 5: but you know, all that, all that funding keeps drying
Speaker 5: up because nobody cares anymore. Uh, we've all become barbarians.
Speaker 5: And and also there's this crazy movement to destroy Western
Speaker 5: tradition because it's considered equal. Somehow, I suppose that before
Speaker 5: long Plato will be accused of having been a slave
Speaker 5: traders of Barbados or some that's it's become sub ridiculous.
Speaker 5: But there's a foot in the academic world to stop
Speaker 5: anybody looking into European tradition and history and culture. And
Speaker 5: they say it's it's all it's too white and uh
Speaker 5: and that white is no good and therefore Plato's no good.
Speaker 5: You don't want to read him because he was he
Speaker 5: was a white male, you know, m hm. I mean,
Speaker 5: this is what's going on. So there's no money anymore
Speaker 5: to do anything, and so a lot of stuff doesn't
Speaker 5: get done. It's obvious that the area around, especially the
Speaker 5: cavalarip here, and that where we have already proved that
Speaker 5: structures exist underground, need to be excavated.
Speaker 1: And are you saying there's structures underneath this pyramids.
Speaker 5: Not underneath the pyramid, but underneath the ground around the pyramid.
Speaker 1: Around it all fascinating, So there could be a tunnel
Speaker 1: system or something.
Speaker 5: Well, a whole settlement that obviously it was an important
Speaker 5: site and there were structures where people presumably could live.
Speaker 1: So when you were there were there foundations or anything
Speaker 1: that looked like there was the buildings that were nearby.
Speaker 5: Well, I didn't examine those areas in detail personally, but
Speaker 5: my colleague Johannis has done so, and some of these
Speaker 5: Greek colleagues Greek archaeologists, and they have found definite traces
Speaker 5: of what are probably prehistoric buildings in the immediate vicinity
Speaker 5: of that pyramid. Oh my god, I can see below it.
Speaker 5: But nobody's done anything about it because no money.
Speaker 1: Yeah, I hear you. Hey, As we close, Robert, I'd
Speaker 1: like you to describe the dating technique that was used
Speaker 1: on stone. And it's known as thermal luminescence, and this
Speaker 1: is something that is being used more and more by archaeologists.
Speaker 1: But if you could give us a brief explanation, because
Speaker 1: you actually know the inventor, who I didn't realize was
Speaker 1: a physicist, and who developed this dating technique. Is it
Speaker 1: about twenty years old now?
Speaker 5: Oh? Yes, more like twenty five. Okay, so it's not.
Speaker 5: There's a slight confusion because the technique known as thermoluminescence
Speaker 5: has existed for many, many decades and is used on pottery.
Speaker 5: His technique is called optical thermoluminescence. So I'll explain what
Speaker 5: that means, Okay, He was originally a nuclear physicist, and
Speaker 5: that's how he was able to come up with this
Speaker 5: technique because he knew enough about physics, and he then switched.
Speaker 5: He became so interested in archaeology he became an archaeometrist,
Speaker 5: which means archaeometrist, that means the measurement of antiquity of things. It's,
Speaker 5: in other words, a dating expert. And he knows all
Speaker 5: about carbon fourteen and all the usual forms. But he
Speaker 5: invented this special form called optical thermoluminescence, which makes it
Speaker 5: possible to date some stone structures directly. And so this
Speaker 5: is how it works. I'll give you the very simple explanation.
Speaker 5: Limestone is basically crystalline. And as you have a limestone structure,
Speaker 5: or if you have limestone sitting in the ground, let's say,
Speaker 5: and you dig into the ground and you cut out
Speaker 5: some blocks of limestone and lift them up out of
Speaker 5: the ground, they are exposed to the sun and that
Speaker 5: does what he calls bleaching, because when limestone's in the ground,
Speaker 5: the crystalline structure of the limestone has what are called
Speaker 5: electron hole which get filled up by electrons. These are
Speaker 5: very seriously microscopic things. You can't see them with the eye,
Speaker 5: and so all these electron holes are full of electrons.
Speaker 5: But when you pull the limestone up and expose it
Speaker 5: to the sun, the sun bleaches it and all the
Speaker 5: electrons are lost. So you got the holes. And then
Speaker 5: if you use that limestone block to put it into
Speaker 5: a structure, you're covering it up again, which means it
Speaker 5: can't be bleached anymore because the sun's no longer shining
Speaker 5: on it. And then it starts to get more electrons
Speaker 5: slowly back into the holes again over the course of
Speaker 5: the centuries. And so he could take a sample of
Speaker 5: the join between two blocks of limestone, very tiny sample,
Speaker 5: only that big, and put it immediately in the black
Speaker 5: plastic bag so there's no light exposure to it, take
Speaker 5: it back to a lab and out the electrons as
Speaker 5: it were, and based upon the count, he can then
Speaker 5: use that as a clock. So when the limestone is
Speaker 5: bleached by the sun, that's like putting the stone clock
Speaker 5: to zero. Sitting the clock to zero, you put it
Speaker 5: in the building and starts that time goes by and
Speaker 5: it gets more and more full of electrons. You count
Speaker 5: the amount of the electrons, and then then you can
Speaker 5: measure the amount of years it's been doing that, and
Speaker 5: he was able.
Speaker 1: To actually determine that these Greek pyramids were dated around
Speaker 1: the Old Kingdom around twenty five hundred BCD or BCE.
Speaker 1: That's right, Yeah, just fascinating.
Speaker 5: Well, you know, there aren't that many prehistoric structures in Greece,
Speaker 5: and I've studied other Preistaric structures in Greece. For instance,
Speaker 5: at Dealthy, I now know how to recognize a preastark wall,
Speaker 5: and we did trial excavation of a prehistoric house that
Speaker 5: was at this town. I discovered in Delphi further up
Speaker 5: the mountain, and so I'm familiar with prehistoric stone work,
Speaker 5: and it doesn't remotely resemble these pyramids, because these pyramids
Speaker 5: are done by people who want to do pyramids, and
Speaker 5: it was only in the territory of August that they
Speaker 5: were ever built. Otherwise prehistoric stone work was none at
Speaker 5: all like that. And I also show in the book
Speaker 5: that the strange polygonal structure of the stones, the way
Speaker 5: they fit into each other, is not like what they
Speaker 5: call Greek polygonal, which is a bit like that, but
Speaker 5: it's very very similar to Egyptian political of the Old
Speaker 5: polygonal of the Old Kingdom, and I show photographs that
Speaker 5: I took up the Valley Temple at Giza with the
Speaker 5: same kind of patterns of stone polygonal construction, side by
Speaker 5: side with the photographs of these Greek pyramids, and you
Speaker 5: can see it's the same technique, just not so brilliantly
Speaker 5: carried out in Greece because they didn't have enough masons.
Speaker 1: Okay, fantastic. The books called the Greek Pyramids the myth
Speaker 1: that was real, I guess today has been Professor Robert Temple.
Speaker 5: How can people, let me just say how they can
Speaker 5: get the book?
Speaker 1: Yeah, I was going to ask him, ask you is
Speaker 1: it on Amazon? How can they get it?
Speaker 5: Well, officially it's published on this side of the Atlantic
Speaker 5: on October sixteenth. It's listed on British, French and German Amazon.
Speaker 5: It's not yet listed on American Amazon. But I can
Speaker 5: make a special offer to your viewers, Cliff out of
Speaker 5: friendship to you that if they want to order it
Speaker 5: from the publishing website itself directly, I will sign the
Speaker 5: copies and they can have pre publication copies one month
Speaker 5: before it's even published in England, where it's originating. It
Speaker 5: will come to America later, because I've got The publishing
Speaker 5: company has a distributor called Cardinal Publishing Group, and then
Speaker 5: it will feed its way onto American Amazon and Barnes
Speaker 5: and Noble and so on, but not at first, and
Speaker 5: you can you can't even order it from British Amazon
Speaker 5: for another month, but you can order it directly from
Speaker 5: the publishing website. So I should say the publisher's name
Speaker 5: is Egglantine Books. Now egglund Tinne is a wild rose
Speaker 5: and a great favorite of Shakespeare. And it's the only
Speaker 5: roads with aromatic leaves and if you crush them they
Speaker 5: smell of apples, and it's a wonderful plant. And so
Speaker 5: the book the publisher is called Eglantine Books, and it's
Speaker 5: spelled e g l a n egglan tyme t y
Speaker 5: n e egglen Tine books. So if you go to
Speaker 5: www dot Egglantine book dot com you can order the
Speaker 5: Greek Pyramids directly. A bit of postage is added, but
Speaker 5: the book is very inexpensive, and it's uh it's paperback,
Speaker 5: a large, larger format like that, and uh, and I
Speaker 5: will I will sign those copies and these would be
Speaker 5: only for your viewers to have prep publications signed copies
Speaker 5: before anybody else.
Speaker 1: So if they order it this is this is Arion Saturday.
Speaker 1: So if they order it the end of the day
Speaker 1: this Saturday, what would be the timeframe that they would
Speaker 1: actually physically get the book? Would you guess?
Speaker 5: Well, it depends how many of there are. I have
Speaker 5: a certain number of copies. I'm in at my house
Speaker 5: in the country, not going up to London the media
Speaker 5: I have. I have a stack of twenty of them here.
Speaker 5: Oh okay, and there's more in London in my office.
Speaker 5: I go back and between the country and the office
Speaker 5: all the time.
Speaker 1: Okay.
Speaker 5: Just think that people offices in New York, in Manhattan,
Speaker 5: and then they go back to the house in Connecticut.
Speaker 1: Yeah. For those of you listening, this is a very
Speaker 1: rare book, simply because Robert is very insistent in high
Speaker 1: quality photographs, and I will say that the photographs are excellent.
Speaker 1: I will actually have a small gallery. Robert has granted
Speaker 1: me permission to use a number of these photographs that
Speaker 1: he has in this new book, and you can see
Speaker 1: them on Facebook. Go to Facebook, go to Earth Agents.
Speaker 1: It'll be on both the international page and the group page.
Speaker 1: So look forward to those. The Greek pyramids, the myth
Speaker 1: that was real. Robert as always a great pleasure having
Speaker 1: you on the program, and I look forward to seeing
Speaker 1: you again real soon.
Speaker 5: Thanks a lot, Cliff, It's always great fun being with you.
Speaker 1: I've had a chance to review the photographs from this
Speaker 1: new book by Robert Temple, and they are not only
Speaker 1: very clear, but there's a lot more research that needs
Speaker 1: to be done. Not only are these megalithic size based stones,
Speaker 1: but as Robert mentioned, someone needs to do some ground
Speaker 1: penetrating radar, perhaps some light art scants of that area,
Speaker 1: because it looks like there could be other dwellings that
Speaker 1: are surrounding the pyramid. Well, no until someone does some
Speaker 1: work on there. Fascinating idea, and I you know, his
Speaker 1: thinking is that these were markers to identify the Argos
Speaker 1: area as Egyptian and Egyptian settlement. I don't know about that.
Speaker 1: I mean, you know, we're beginning to find as we
Speaker 1: look into subtle energy, toleric energy, that a lot of these,
Speaker 1: especially at Giza, these pyramids are sitting on lay lines. Now,
Speaker 1: I'm not saying that these these Greek pair is are machines,
Speaker 1: but they could have been certain types of communication devices.
Speaker 1: They could have been. I think he mentioned that they
Speaker 1: follow the pattern of a constellation. You know, these Greeks,
Speaker 1: these Egyptians were extremely bright. And if it's Old Kingdom,
Speaker 1: that's carrying over pre dynastic technology into the Dynastic period,
Speaker 1: and that is highly, highly technical, and I think it'd
Speaker 1: be great as someone went out to these pyramids and
Speaker 1: did some field testing with magnometers or scanning devices to
Speaker 1: determine if they're sitting on lay lines. That's just a thought,
Speaker 1: but what a fascinating topic. He's got another book on
Speaker 1: Odysseus that we're gonna bring up, and also in the
Speaker 1: early part of twenty twenty five, he's releasing a new version,
Speaker 1: an updated version on the sphinxmeness history and he has
Speaker 1: chronicled years of documentation throughout thousands of and I should
Speaker 1: says hundreds of people who have walked inside the Sphinx
Speaker 1: and walked into these tunnel systems. Remember we had William
Speaker 1: Brown on the program who did surface scans, ground penetrating
Speaker 1: radar as well as some other scanning technology and discovered
Speaker 1: significant tunnel systems underneath these Sphinx and the Giza Plateau,
Speaker 1: and that in the northern region there's an actual temple
Speaker 1: that is buried and he's been unable to get the
Speaker 1: authorities to consider digging or even looking for it. But yeah,
Speaker 1: we had William On a few months ago. So all
Speaker 1: these ancient technologies come on to bear when you start
Speaker 1: using scanning technology that can pick up frequencies. So something
Speaker 1: to think about. Hey, we're coming into the fall and
Speaker 1: we have one more visit that we are scheduled to do.
Speaker 1: That's the Sacred Temples of Mexico. That is November eighth
Speaker 1: to the fifteenth to the seventeenth. For all the details,
Speaker 1: go to Earth Ancients dot com forward slash tours t
Speaker 1: O U R S. This is a good one because
Speaker 1: we're going to see all these sacred sites. Many of
Speaker 1: these pyramids sit on to lyric fields, geomagnetic faults and
Speaker 1: they are active. So as we climb these pyramids, and
Speaker 1: we will be doing some climbing, we will fill these energies.
Speaker 1: This is a chance to see some of the most
Speaker 1: noted pyramidal structures in the Yucatan Peninsula attributed to the Maya,
Speaker 1: and we'll see places like Ushmoh, the fabulous Chichinitza, Ekbalam Mayapan,
Speaker 1: Sayil Lobna and many others for during the week, so
Speaker 1: we're really gonna pack it in. These are fairly close by,
Speaker 1: so we'll bust to these locations and it's gonna be
Speaker 1: a great deal of fun. For more information and all
Speaker 1: the details, go to earth Agents dot com forward Slash
Speaker 1: Tours and check it out. Any questions whatsoever, send me
Speaker 1: an email. Send it to Earth Ancients the number four
Speaker 1: of the letter you at gmail dot com and I'll
Speaker 1: get right back to you. All right, that's it for
Speaker 1: this program. I want to thank my guest today, Robert Temple,
Speaker 1: coming to us from England. As always, the team of
Speaker 1: Gail Tour, Mark Foster and everyone who makes this thing happen.
Speaker 1: You guys rock, all right, take care, be well, and
Speaker 1: we will talk to you next time. A