1 00:00:02,720 --> 00:00:06,360 Speaker 1: Broadcasting from Studio A Here at proven Winners, Color Choice Shrubs. 2 00:00:06,559 --> 00:00:10,599 It's time for the Gardening Simplified Podcast, YouTube and radio 3 00:00:10,679 --> 00:00:14,679 show with Stacy Hervilla, me Rick Weist, and our engineer 4 00:00:14,679 --> 00:00:19,800 and producer Adrianna Robinson. Oh deer, the buck stops here. 5 00:00:20,079 --> 00:00:22,760 That's right. We want to talk about deer today, and 6 00:00:22,839 --> 00:00:27,039 I think you want to too, because few creatures can 7 00:00:27,079 --> 00:00:32,799 look more harmless while doing more destruction than the urban deer. 8 00:00:32,960 --> 00:00:37,200 They spread disease, they run in front of cars, causing crashes. 9 00:00:37,280 --> 00:00:43,240 They devour farm fields and expensive landscapes. I guess in 10 00:00:43,320 --> 00:00:48,240 brief to say they find your roses dear delicious, because 11 00:00:48,280 --> 00:00:51,600 they certainly do. They can eat plants down to a 12 00:00:51,719 --> 00:00:56,159 nub in short order. But to be fair, humans have 13 00:00:56,320 --> 00:00:59,840 created the ideal conditions for deer to survive and reduce 14 00:01:00,840 --> 00:01:06,920 well basically to problematic levels, and we see higher survival 15 00:01:07,040 --> 00:01:11,760 rates in deer that live in urban settings. And Stacy 16 00:01:11,879 --> 00:01:17,319 for context, resource managers years ago were concerned about overpopulation 17 00:01:17,480 --> 00:01:19,280 when the herd was much smaller. 18 00:01:19,719 --> 00:01:22,680 Speaker 2: Wow, that's saying something because it's big now, you know. 19 00:01:22,760 --> 00:01:24,359 I do want to say to any listener who's like, 20 00:01:25,000 --> 00:01:27,159 I don't have deer. I'm gonna go listen to something else. 21 00:01:27,719 --> 00:01:30,040 Just because you don't have deer now doesn't mean you 22 00:01:30,079 --> 00:01:32,439 won't have deer because of the way that things are 23 00:01:32,480 --> 00:01:35,400 going right now with so much development, especially right now, 24 00:01:36,079 --> 00:01:39,480 you know, the areas that they have to live in 25 00:01:39,640 --> 00:01:44,560 are becoming increasingly smaller. And the fact is, much like 26 00:01:44,799 --> 00:01:48,599 raccoons or apossum, they're just adaptable. They are able to 27 00:01:48,799 --> 00:01:52,200 adapt to our environment, the way we live, the way 28 00:01:52,280 --> 00:01:57,280 that we plant around our homes, all of that. So yeah, 29 00:01:57,319 --> 00:02:00,280 it's really just a matter of time till pretty much everybody. 30 00:02:00,439 --> 00:02:02,000 I live in the middle of a city. I didn't 31 00:02:02,000 --> 00:02:03,280 think I would ever have deer, and I have a 32 00:02:03,319 --> 00:02:04,159 terrible deer problem. 33 00:02:04,200 --> 00:02:08,280 Speaker 1: That's exactly the problem. And in a county that adjoins 34 00:02:08,360 --> 00:02:13,759 the counties that Stacey and I live in here in Michigan, 35 00:02:14,719 --> 00:02:17,639 Kent County. I went to a meeting the other day 36 00:02:17,719 --> 00:02:21,080 the Kent County Deer Management Coalition. As a matter of fact, 37 00:02:21,599 --> 00:02:25,240 they've enlisted the support and help of Grand Valley State University. 38 00:02:25,280 --> 00:02:29,960 And we'll talk to a representative in segment four today 39 00:02:30,000 --> 00:02:33,520 to see what we can learn. But the number of 40 00:02:33,960 --> 00:02:38,039 road killed deer pickups in that county and twenty twenty 41 00:02:38,080 --> 00:02:43,639 four exceeded the number of hunter harvested deer. Wow, twenty 42 00:02:43,680 --> 00:02:48,560 six percent of vehicle crashes are deer related in that county. 43 00:02:48,919 --> 00:02:51,759 And last year in that county, I was standing there 44 00:02:51,800 --> 00:02:55,280 at the meeting talking to someone from public Works. He 45 00:02:55,479 --> 00:02:59,439 said that their department last year picked up one hundred 46 00:02:59,639 --> 00:03:05,000 and eighty tons of deer carcasses. Yeah, that's unreal when 47 00:03:05,039 --> 00:03:10,960 you consider that the adult male buck weighs between one 48 00:03:11,000 --> 00:03:14,599 hundred and twenty one hundred and sixty pounds, a female 49 00:03:15,039 --> 00:03:17,800 maybe eighty to one hundred and twenty pounds, one hundred 50 00:03:17,800 --> 00:03:21,719 and eighty tons. You do the math. Now, the deer 51 00:03:21,759 --> 00:03:26,560 boom factors, I guess essentially we have to say, Stacey, 52 00:03:26,639 --> 00:03:30,680 that they don't have the large predators they had years ago, 53 00:03:30,840 --> 00:03:34,319 and reintroducing them into the landscape doesn't make sense. 54 00:03:34,520 --> 00:03:39,240 Speaker 2: No, And I mean fortunately, coyotes are definitely on the rise. 55 00:03:39,400 --> 00:03:44,400 They certainly cited frequently out here in West Michigan because 56 00:03:44,439 --> 00:03:47,280 they also have a similar adaptability in ways that they 57 00:03:47,319 --> 00:03:51,960 can adapt to, you know, human surroundings. One coyote can 58 00:03:52,000 --> 00:03:54,719 only do so much switch when it comes to a 59 00:03:54,759 --> 00:03:58,439 giant deer. So we can't count on them. And of course, 60 00:03:58,479 --> 00:04:01,240 you know, people if you try to say to people, well, 61 00:04:01,479 --> 00:04:04,080 you know, we'll encourage coyotes to try to manage a 62 00:04:04,080 --> 00:04:06,000 deer problem, while people are going to then freak out 63 00:04:06,000 --> 00:04:10,520 about having coyotes around. So we're really in a rough situation. 64 00:04:10,599 --> 00:04:12,599 And I do want to say, you know, I have 65 00:04:12,719 --> 00:04:16,040 seen the arguments on local Facebook groups, and I have 66 00:04:16,079 --> 00:04:18,920 seen people say, literally word for word, there is no 67 00:04:19,160 --> 00:04:23,160 flower in the world worth a deer's life, right, And 68 00:04:23,399 --> 00:04:25,519 the fact is, this isn't just about the fact that 69 00:04:25,759 --> 00:04:28,560 we love gardening, and it's not just about the fact 70 00:04:28,560 --> 00:04:32,639 that gardeners should grow whatever they want without any repercussions. 71 00:04:32,680 --> 00:04:34,800 That's not the point at all. But a lot of 72 00:04:34,879 --> 00:04:38,839 us like myself, who are gardening for pollinators, you know, 73 00:04:38,959 --> 00:04:41,240 if a deer comes along and eats all the flowers, 74 00:04:41,600 --> 00:04:44,199 well there goes your potential for pollinators and all of 75 00:04:44,199 --> 00:04:47,160 those other reasons that you're gardening for birds, for a wildlife. 76 00:04:47,160 --> 00:04:50,000 And of course deer are wildlife, but they have an 77 00:04:50,120 --> 00:04:55,439 outsized role in the damage that they cause to our landscapes. 78 00:04:55,680 --> 00:05:01,839 Speaker 1: Yeah, exactly. And it's a controversial subject because hunters basically 79 00:05:01,959 --> 00:05:06,839 remain as the check on deer population growth. But there 80 00:05:06,879 --> 00:05:10,319 are today less hunters than there used to be, and 81 00:05:10,360 --> 00:05:11,519 it's just a fact. 82 00:05:11,720 --> 00:05:15,000 Speaker 2: And you know where people hunt, because of course there aren't. 83 00:05:15,040 --> 00:05:17,560 People needs to be safe enough for them to fire 84 00:05:18,000 --> 00:05:22,360 a shotgun or a bow an arrow. Are not where 85 00:05:22,360 --> 00:05:24,759 the deer problems are. You know, I live where I live, 86 00:05:24,800 --> 00:05:27,920 they don't allow guns to be fired, So there is 87 00:05:27,959 --> 00:05:31,639 no hunting. Even if everyone, even if every qualified hunter 88 00:05:31,720 --> 00:05:34,279 around here went deer hunting, it still wouldn't take care 89 00:05:34,680 --> 00:05:36,040 of the urban deer population. 90 00:05:36,199 --> 00:05:39,560 Speaker 1: Yeah, suburban sprawl. I mean, it doesn't make sense to 91 00:05:39,639 --> 00:05:42,759 have a hunter shoot a deer and then chase it 92 00:05:42,879 --> 00:05:46,839 across ten property lines and have it expire in your 93 00:05:46,879 --> 00:05:50,000 backyard while you're back there having a margarita and eating 94 00:05:50,199 --> 00:05:51,360 chocolate bondbonds. 95 00:05:51,560 --> 00:05:52,839 Speaker 2: Well, it's better than TV. 96 00:05:54,959 --> 00:05:57,680 Speaker 1: Now. Of course. With this study here in the county 97 00:05:57,680 --> 00:06:03,680 that adjoins ours, they also found that when they survey 98 00:06:03,920 --> 00:06:07,800 the general public, there are some townships where the number 99 00:06:07,879 --> 00:06:13,720 of people who enjoy watching and feeding deer exceed those 100 00:06:13,879 --> 00:06:17,079 who do not like the deer. There are other counties 101 00:06:17,120 --> 00:06:21,800 where they simply are tired of the deer problem. And 102 00:06:21,839 --> 00:06:25,360 so you have people who represent the deer, and then 103 00:06:25,399 --> 00:06:28,839 you have people who represent the plants. And that's why 104 00:06:28,879 --> 00:06:32,480 coalitions like this exist, because we got to find a 105 00:06:32,519 --> 00:06:34,279 way to get along together, you know. 106 00:06:34,439 --> 00:06:37,800 Speaker 2: And out here in Michigan, we fortunately do not yet 107 00:06:37,879 --> 00:06:41,439 have a huge issue with tickborne illness and specifically lime disease, 108 00:06:41,879 --> 00:06:46,360 which requires a deer to complete its life cycle. But 109 00:06:46,439 --> 00:06:48,279 when I lived in New York, lime disease, of course 110 00:06:48,319 --> 00:06:51,560 is named for lime Connecticut, where it was first identified, 111 00:06:51,639 --> 00:06:54,720 and all around the metro New York area, the deer 112 00:06:54,759 --> 00:06:58,639 pressure is outrageous. I mean, of course, it's very, very populated. 113 00:07:00,079 --> 00:07:02,360 I can honestly say this is not an exaggeration, even 114 00:07:02,399 --> 00:07:04,399 though it's going to sound like it is. As a 115 00:07:04,439 --> 00:07:07,639 horticulturist who worked in New York City, I did not 116 00:07:07,839 --> 00:07:12,079 know a single other gardener who worked in Westchester or 117 00:07:12,160 --> 00:07:14,639 upstate who did not get one disease at least once. 118 00:07:15,120 --> 00:07:17,839 Not a single one. Wow, everyone got it. 119 00:07:18,199 --> 00:07:23,360 Speaker 1: Yeah, yeah, it's amazing. And you know, I guess some 120 00:07:23,439 --> 00:07:27,360 strategies can be employed. We could hunt more, but we 121 00:07:27,480 --> 00:07:33,160 already said that there are less hunters today. Reintroduced predators, 122 00:07:33,240 --> 00:07:34,319 which is laughable. 123 00:07:34,759 --> 00:07:37,959 Speaker 2: I mean, it's interesting, but you know, not gonna work. 124 00:07:39,680 --> 00:07:43,639 Speaker 1: Of course, they've looked at sterilizing female deer or trapping 125 00:07:43,720 --> 00:07:47,600 and killing animals. All come with trade offs. I mean 126 00:07:47,639 --> 00:07:51,560 in ann Arbor, a city here in Michigan, they tried 127 00:07:51,639 --> 00:07:56,399 the deer sterilization program, but it didn't work. They put 128 00:07:56,480 --> 00:08:00,000 it on hold. It's very expensive, it's difficult. You've got 129 00:08:00,160 --> 00:08:04,319 to get at least eighty percent of the female deer sterilized, 130 00:08:04,360 --> 00:08:06,399 and that that's a difficult task. 131 00:08:06,560 --> 00:08:08,839 Speaker 2: Well, and I read a study not all that long 132 00:08:08,879 --> 00:08:13,480 ago that found that ovary tissue could grow back in 133 00:08:13,600 --> 00:08:16,439 deer that were sterilized, which is outrageous. I mean, it's 134 00:08:16,519 --> 00:08:20,279 crazy to even think about, but to think about investing 135 00:08:20,319 --> 00:08:22,480 the time and money and of course the stress on 136 00:08:22,519 --> 00:08:26,720 the animals of a for sterilization and then to not 137 00:08:26,800 --> 00:08:29,839 even have it work. I mean, and plus the when 138 00:08:29,879 --> 00:08:32,320 they did sterilize the deer, they put this giant tag 139 00:08:32,399 --> 00:08:34,720 in their ear. I mean, it was huge. So my 140 00:08:34,720 --> 00:08:36,399 friends lived in ann Arbor and I was looking out 141 00:08:36,399 --> 00:08:38,159 their back door one day and I was like, what 142 00:08:38,240 --> 00:08:40,840 in the world is with that deer? Looks like it's 143 00:08:40,879 --> 00:08:43,039 got some kind of crazy earring on. So it's also 144 00:08:43,120 --> 00:08:44,519 you know, humiliating for the deer. 145 00:08:44,639 --> 00:08:47,360 Speaker 1: Yeah, it is. I mean it's just there are there 146 00:08:47,360 --> 00:08:51,039 are not easy answers. Now the buck stops here, So 147 00:08:51,120 --> 00:08:54,000 we're going to try and give you some help. For example, 148 00:08:54,039 --> 00:08:58,120 at my home where there's tremendous deer pressure, the front yard, 149 00:08:58,320 --> 00:09:02,080 I plant nothing but deer resistant plants and it works 150 00:09:02,159 --> 00:09:06,159 quite well. The backyard I built a compound, put up 151 00:09:06,200 --> 00:09:09,720 signs that say no deer allowed, and that works quite well. 152 00:09:10,240 --> 00:09:13,840 But fencing is expensive and in some neighborhoods you just 153 00:09:13,919 --> 00:09:19,320 can't do it. It's maybe even unsightly. Of course, deer 154 00:09:19,440 --> 00:09:23,080 repellents some work better than others. And I do want 155 00:09:23,120 --> 00:09:27,399 to share real quickly a story, and that is I 156 00:09:27,480 --> 00:09:30,159 have mentioned on the program before that I use a 157 00:09:30,200 --> 00:09:35,360 deer repellent called Bobex. Now, the reason it's called Bobex 158 00:09:35,480 --> 00:09:40,120 is because the gentleman who invented it, bob Exady, is 159 00:09:40,159 --> 00:09:43,039 a Navy veteran and he was a chemist. He had 160 00:09:43,039 --> 00:09:47,200 a degree in chemistry, lived in Connecticut, had three hundred 161 00:09:47,240 --> 00:09:48,279 tomato plants. 162 00:09:48,440 --> 00:09:50,039 Speaker 2: Wow, that's a lot of tomatoes. 163 00:09:50,159 --> 00:09:52,879 Speaker 1: Yes, And this is a gentleman who loved plants. He 164 00:09:53,000 --> 00:09:56,759 passed away a few years ago. But now his son, 165 00:09:56,840 --> 00:09:59,679 Greg who I've spoken with as CEO of the company. 166 00:10:00,159 --> 00:10:04,320 So they call it bob X because all of Bob's 167 00:10:04,320 --> 00:10:07,120 friends called them bob X, so they call the product 168 00:10:07,279 --> 00:10:11,200 bob X. But the point is is how well do 169 00:10:11,399 --> 00:10:16,080 these repellents work? And he had three hundred tomato plants 170 00:10:16,120 --> 00:10:19,559 and he found that with the plants that he fed 171 00:10:19,679 --> 00:10:24,799 with a fish fertilizer, the deer left them alone. So 172 00:10:24,879 --> 00:10:29,759 he went to work as a chemist. And it's interesting 173 00:10:29,799 --> 00:10:32,679 when I read the label, it, for example, has stuff 174 00:10:32,720 --> 00:10:36,639 in it like cat food. Oh, and I asked Greg, 175 00:10:36,720 --> 00:10:39,960 I said, cat food in my spray? He said, well, 176 00:10:40,080 --> 00:10:44,360 essentially what it is is it's chicken livers. And so 177 00:10:44,480 --> 00:10:48,320 when you look at deer, which are herbivores, and compare 178 00:10:48,360 --> 00:10:52,200 them to cats or dogs, they'll put chicken livers in 179 00:10:52,440 --> 00:10:56,000 dog and cat food. But herbivores, of course, do not 180 00:10:56,279 --> 00:10:59,639 like it. The fish oil makes for a great sticker, 181 00:11:00,120 --> 00:11:03,240 it does not wash off the foliage real quickly. So 182 00:11:03,320 --> 00:11:09,000 again I'm not being paid by Bobecks. I'm not sitting 183 00:11:09,000 --> 00:11:11,840 here just endorsing their products so that I can be paid. 184 00:11:12,840 --> 00:11:15,720 Coming from the garden center industry, I have used many 185 00:11:15,799 --> 00:11:20,360 repellents over the years, many repellents, many different types. This 186 00:11:20,519 --> 00:11:23,360 to me, stacy is the closest thing to a fence. 187 00:11:24,000 --> 00:11:25,919 Bobecks really works. 188 00:11:25,679 --> 00:11:29,960 Speaker 2: All right, I'm a plants good person. Definitely bring your 189 00:11:29,960 --> 00:11:32,480 family and tell your neighbors to go inside before you 190 00:11:32,519 --> 00:11:36,639 spray it. But it also works, just smells ghastly. 191 00:11:37,000 --> 00:11:39,879 Speaker 1: In the case of bobex of course, it's used as 192 00:11:40,559 --> 00:11:45,480 a sticker or something, fish oil essentially as an adhesive 193 00:11:46,000 --> 00:11:48,720 for this smelly stuff. And as we've talked about on 194 00:11:48,759 --> 00:11:52,399 the show before, putresse and egg solids, garlic, all this 195 00:11:52,519 --> 00:11:55,080 sort of stuff is put in the sprays also, and 196 00:11:55,120 --> 00:11:58,039 it's not fun going out there every night and spritsing 197 00:11:58,080 --> 00:12:00,759 those plants and coming back inside smelling like it. 198 00:12:00,840 --> 00:12:01,879 Speaker 2: No, it smells terrible. 199 00:12:02,039 --> 00:12:06,440 Speaker 1: It's not fun, but it beats building these little deer 200 00:12:06,600 --> 00:12:11,320 pens around the plants in your landscape. And you'll see 201 00:12:11,360 --> 00:12:16,080 that in landscapes. Now, there are many great plants that 202 00:12:16,159 --> 00:12:22,639 we can suggest for deer resistance and stacey right off 203 00:12:22,639 --> 00:12:26,360 the top. My favorite, of course is ornamental grasses. They 204 00:12:26,360 --> 00:12:29,759 don't touch ornamental grasses. There are so many great cultivars 205 00:12:29,799 --> 00:12:35,759 of ornamental grasses. So between ornamental grasses, nepeta lavender. There 206 00:12:35,840 --> 00:12:39,720 are a number of plants that are suited to deer resists. 207 00:12:39,759 --> 00:12:42,120 Speaker 2: Tons. Really, there are tons of plants. I'm gonna talk 208 00:12:42,159 --> 00:12:44,080 about that a bit in Plants on Trial, But yeah, 209 00:12:44,159 --> 00:12:45,840 you are spoiled for choice when it comes to plants 210 00:12:45,840 --> 00:12:48,440 that the deer white. There really are so many amazing 211 00:12:48,679 --> 00:12:51,080 options basil. How glad am I that the deer don't 212 00:12:51,039 --> 00:12:51,879 eat basil. 213 00:12:51,720 --> 00:12:56,559 Speaker 1: Exactly, So we'll look at that list in segment four today. 214 00:12:56,879 --> 00:12:59,080 Let me give you a quick limb. A Rick on 215 00:12:59,159 --> 00:13:02,320 this topic says, though I live in the wild Frontier, 216 00:13:02,840 --> 00:13:06,440 the nibbling on my plants is quite severe. They polished 217 00:13:06,480 --> 00:13:10,519 off my shrubs, my flowers down to nubs. What to do? 218 00:13:11,200 --> 00:13:15,519 I have no idear maybe Stacy has a few ideas 219 00:13:15,559 --> 00:13:18,120 for us in Plants on Trial. That's coming up next 220 00:13:18,159 --> 00:13:20,960 here on the Gardening Simplified Show. 221 00:13:26,720 --> 00:13:30,000 Speaker 2: Beautify your home and community with Proven Winner's Color Choice 222 00:13:30,039 --> 00:13:33,159 Shrubs with over three hundred and twenty five unique varieties 223 00:13:33,159 --> 00:13:35,840 to choose from. There's a flowering shrub or evergreen for 224 00:13:35,879 --> 00:13:39,080 every taste and every space. Just look for the distinctive 225 00:13:39,080 --> 00:13:41,840 white container your local garden center or learn more at 226 00:13:41,879 --> 00:13:47,559 Proven Winner's Color Choice Dot com reeting's gardening friends, and 227 00:13:47,600 --> 00:13:50,240 welcome back to the Gardening Simplified Show, where the order 228 00:13:50,279 --> 00:13:52,399 of the day is deer. And of course, if you 229 00:13:52,440 --> 00:13:55,279 have been listening to us for some time, you already 230 00:13:55,320 --> 00:13:58,720 know that both Rick and I struggle mightily with deer 231 00:13:58,960 --> 00:14:01,399 in our yards. Has put up a fence, he might 232 00:14:01,440 --> 00:14:04,159 be being saying, like, Stacy, you complain about deer all the time, 233 00:14:04,440 --> 00:14:07,679 why don't you just put up a fence. And the 234 00:14:07,759 --> 00:14:10,840 fact is that the way that my yard is where 235 00:14:11,000 --> 00:14:13,480 the position of my driveway and everything else in my 236 00:14:13,600 --> 00:14:16,600 yard makes putting up a fence is quite difficult. I 237 00:14:16,639 --> 00:14:18,879 would need a very large gate to get over my 238 00:14:18,960 --> 00:14:23,279 driveway and seal off that part of my yard. I had, 239 00:14:23,440 --> 00:14:26,279 I have had quotes, I have had fence people tell 240 00:14:26,320 --> 00:14:28,919 me that that gate will be a nightmare in the winter. 241 00:14:29,039 --> 00:14:35,120 Don't do it. So that's why I don't have a Fenceless, 242 00:14:35,279 --> 00:14:39,759 I am defenseless, but I'm I am without offense, but 243 00:14:39,840 --> 00:14:42,159 I am not without defenses. Now, I do want to 244 00:14:42,159 --> 00:14:44,960 just give you like a brief little background if you 245 00:14:45,000 --> 00:14:48,120 haven't heard this story before. When we finally bought our house, 246 00:14:48,200 --> 00:14:51,600 I was like so excited to finally have a garden. 247 00:14:52,039 --> 00:14:54,879 You know, this is like a culmination of years of 248 00:14:54,919 --> 00:14:56,679 living in the city and not being able to afford 249 00:14:56,720 --> 00:14:59,519 a house, and then moving back to Michigan and living 250 00:14:59,519 --> 00:15:01,320 in New York not having a garden. And I was 251 00:15:01,399 --> 00:15:04,399 just like ready for it. And you know, we find 252 00:15:04,440 --> 00:15:06,840 the right house. It's got tons of sun, it's a 253 00:15:06,960 --> 00:15:11,240 nice flat lot, blank slate. My head is just swimming 254 00:15:11,279 --> 00:15:15,879 with ideas, so excited. And there was this sort of 255 00:15:15,919 --> 00:15:18,759 old vegetable garden at the back of the property. And 256 00:15:19,480 --> 00:15:21,159 one day we had been at the house and I 257 00:15:21,240 --> 00:15:23,159 saw that there was a potato coming up in it, 258 00:15:23,200 --> 00:15:24,919 and I was like, oh, all right, cool, you know 259 00:15:25,039 --> 00:15:27,320 old potato, that's fine whatever. It was about to flower. 260 00:15:28,000 --> 00:15:30,600 So a couple days later we were back at the house. 261 00:15:30,759 --> 00:15:32,519 We were talking to our neighbor in the back, meeting 262 00:15:32,559 --> 00:15:35,159 him for the first time, just chit chatting, and as 263 00:15:35,159 --> 00:15:37,600 we walk away, I say to my husband, I wonder 264 00:15:37,639 --> 00:15:39,799 what ate that potato? It was just about to flower. 265 00:15:39,919 --> 00:15:42,159 And my neighbor turns around and goes, oh, that that 266 00:15:42,360 --> 00:15:45,320 was the deer. And I wish it was one of 267 00:15:45,320 --> 00:15:47,440 those moments in life where I wish there was a 268 00:15:47,480 --> 00:15:50,840 camera so that I could have seen my face because 269 00:15:50,879 --> 00:15:53,240 it was like one of those scenes in the movie 270 00:15:53,799 --> 00:15:56,519 where you're just like, you know, happy and smiley and 271 00:15:56,559 --> 00:15:59,879 then like just like mood change on a dime. I mean, 272 00:16:00,000 --> 00:16:02,480 I couldn't believe it because it's in an urban area 273 00:16:02,600 --> 00:16:05,360 and I never would have expected that it's a problem. 274 00:16:05,440 --> 00:16:08,240 And not only are deer a problem, they have become 275 00:16:08,360 --> 00:16:12,519 significantly worse in my area than they were when we 276 00:16:12,559 --> 00:16:14,120 moved into our house ten years ago. 277 00:16:14,759 --> 00:16:16,919 Speaker 1: Same here, they walk right up the front steps and 278 00:16:17,000 --> 00:16:17,919 ring the deer. 279 00:16:17,759 --> 00:16:22,360 Speaker 2: Bell pretty much right like they're fearless. And I will 280 00:16:22,360 --> 00:16:26,360 say this, we also have rabbits, and you know, the 281 00:16:26,440 --> 00:16:30,279 rabbits are also very, very destructive. But I will give 282 00:16:30,279 --> 00:16:34,360 the rabbits credit. They come around, they look darling. We 283 00:16:34,399 --> 00:16:37,080 get some entertainment value out of the rabbits, you know, 284 00:16:37,559 --> 00:16:39,799 I can forgive them a little bit. And of course 285 00:16:39,799 --> 00:16:41,279 if they eat too much, well then the plant just 286 00:16:41,320 --> 00:16:43,240 dies and it dies out, and then I don't have 287 00:16:43,240 --> 00:16:46,559 as many rabbits anymore. The deer, you know, I could 288 00:16:46,639 --> 00:16:50,000 appreciate them a little bit more if I ever saw them, 289 00:16:50,440 --> 00:16:53,080 but no, they do their damage under the cover of 290 00:16:53,120 --> 00:16:56,200 the night. I don't know what time, ten pm one 291 00:16:56,240 --> 00:16:59,600 in the morning anytime I am sound asleep, so I'm 292 00:16:59,600 --> 00:17:02,519 not even I'm getting like, wow, it was really cool 293 00:17:02,559 --> 00:17:05,319 to sit here and observe this deer like that. I 294 00:17:05,359 --> 00:17:07,519 get nothing in return. All I get is damage. 295 00:17:07,599 --> 00:17:10,359 Speaker 1: Have you tried any of the motion activated stuff? 296 00:17:11,000 --> 00:17:14,200 Speaker 2: I had a call a week ago today, in fact, 297 00:17:14,680 --> 00:17:16,839 a local gardener called me and I had to ask 298 00:17:16,920 --> 00:17:20,319 some questions and he was talking about his hostas, and 299 00:17:20,359 --> 00:17:23,240 I was like, wow, you have hostas out here. He goes, well, 300 00:17:23,279 --> 00:17:24,759 you know, the deer surgery eating. But then I got 301 00:17:24,759 --> 00:17:30,119 one of those motion detectors sprinklers. Okay, so no, here's 302 00:17:30,119 --> 00:17:33,759 my solution. Here's what I have done. Even though I 303 00:17:33,799 --> 00:17:36,680 took a year there where I was deluding myself into 304 00:17:36,680 --> 00:17:38,680 believing that I could grow whatever I want and do 305 00:17:38,759 --> 00:17:42,839 whatever I wanted in my property and spraying things and 306 00:17:42,880 --> 00:17:47,039 putting up cockamamie contraptions to block plants off from deer, 307 00:17:48,039 --> 00:17:50,240 I finally just decided, you know what, this is just 308 00:17:50,319 --> 00:17:52,799 going to be a deer resistant garden. And I have 309 00:17:53,400 --> 00:17:56,240 made all of my plant choices based on things that 310 00:17:56,240 --> 00:17:56,960 the deer won't eat. 311 00:17:57,599 --> 00:17:59,480 Speaker 1: Yeah, And like I said, that's what I did. In 312 00:17:59,519 --> 00:18:03,519 the front ornamental grasses, nepeta, lavender, et cetera, et cetera. 313 00:18:03,680 --> 00:18:06,160 Speaker 2: Right, So it is a choice that you can make 314 00:18:06,720 --> 00:18:09,559 if you are unable like me to fence off your yard, 315 00:18:09,640 --> 00:18:12,319 or you don't want to, or you know, if you 316 00:18:12,440 --> 00:18:15,720 live in a larger lot, fencing may become very impractical. 317 00:18:16,319 --> 00:18:19,119 So there's lots of reasons why. And I have to 318 00:18:19,200 --> 00:18:21,720 say that not only has this been an amazing learning 319 00:18:21,759 --> 00:18:25,599 experience for me, because I have, I really have learned 320 00:18:25,720 --> 00:18:28,759 so very much about plants and what deer will eat 321 00:18:28,799 --> 00:18:31,680 and all of that. But it's been rewarding and I 322 00:18:31,720 --> 00:18:35,119 have a lot lower maintenance garden as a result. And 323 00:18:35,160 --> 00:18:37,559 I have to tell you now, sitting here, you know, 324 00:18:37,640 --> 00:18:41,000 ten years later, nine years later, after this decision was made, 325 00:18:42,039 --> 00:18:45,079 I have no regrets and I don't feel deprived at all. 326 00:18:45,079 --> 00:18:46,880 Now I do wish I didn't have to have a 327 00:18:46,920 --> 00:18:50,160 giant fence around my vegetable garden. It would be really 328 00:18:50,279 --> 00:18:53,079 nice to just be able to stroll out magically to 329 00:18:53,119 --> 00:18:56,039 the vegetable garden and pick stuff without having to undo 330 00:18:56,119 --> 00:18:59,480 a bunch of you know, links and get into my 331 00:18:59,599 --> 00:19:02,920 vegetable But I'll take what I can get. But yeah, 332 00:19:02,960 --> 00:19:06,640 you you don't really miss out on great plants by 333 00:19:06,640 --> 00:19:08,839 limiting your palate to just things that dear won't be. 334 00:19:08,960 --> 00:19:10,839 Speaker 1: I think you have to adjust. You know. One of 335 00:19:10,880 --> 00:19:13,359 the things we didn't mention in the first segment is 336 00:19:13,400 --> 00:19:16,720 the climate is changing also, and if the winters are 337 00:19:16,920 --> 00:19:21,039 milder again, you're going to have more a lot more damage. 338 00:19:21,039 --> 00:19:22,960 This is a problem that's not going to go. 339 00:19:23,079 --> 00:19:25,839 Speaker 2: It's not going to give away. But this is plants 340 00:19:25,880 --> 00:19:28,279 on trial, So we're supposed to be talking about a plant, 341 00:19:28,759 --> 00:19:31,759 and I am pleased to share with you a fantastic 342 00:19:31,920 --> 00:19:36,200 plant that I adore that is very, very dear resistant 343 00:19:37,400 --> 00:19:42,480 and it is a sweet emotion Abelia. Great plant, Great plants. 344 00:19:42,519 --> 00:19:46,519 So Abelia Abelia is a plant that we've talked about 345 00:19:46,519 --> 00:19:48,960 occasionally on the show. If you live in a colder climate, 346 00:19:49,039 --> 00:19:51,640 you may have never heard of it because most abelias 347 00:19:51,680 --> 00:19:54,759 that are really popular are considered more southern plants. They're 348 00:19:54,759 --> 00:19:58,559 hardy down to about USDA Zone six. They're broad leaf evergreens, 349 00:19:58,599 --> 00:20:00,519 so they can suffer a little bit of winter damage. Well, 350 00:20:00,559 --> 00:20:04,440 today's Abelia, Today's plan on trial. Sweet emotion abelia not 351 00:20:04,680 --> 00:20:08,400 an issue. It is actually hardy down to USDA Zone four. 352 00:20:09,079 --> 00:20:11,720 It is probably the hardiest and one of the only 353 00:20:11,839 --> 00:20:15,000 hardy abelias out there. And so I wanted to talk 354 00:20:15,039 --> 00:20:18,279 about sweet Emotion today because it is a member of 355 00:20:18,319 --> 00:20:21,759 our deer Proof program here at Proven Winners Color Choice Shrubs. 356 00:20:22,240 --> 00:20:24,079 And this is a program that we started a few 357 00:20:24,160 --> 00:20:29,000 years ago, knowing how many people struggle with deer and 358 00:20:29,160 --> 00:20:31,720 knowing that when someone goes into a garden center and 359 00:20:31,880 --> 00:20:34,680 needs to find a plant that deer won't eat, that 360 00:20:34,759 --> 00:20:36,720 they don't want to look at one hundred and fifty 361 00:20:36,720 --> 00:20:39,079 different plant tags trying to figure out what the right 362 00:20:39,119 --> 00:20:42,119 plant is to put in their yard. So we came 363 00:20:42,200 --> 00:20:44,519 up with deer Proof. Yes it is a bold name, 364 00:20:44,599 --> 00:20:47,359 because deer will eat pretty much anything, but these are 365 00:20:47,400 --> 00:20:51,039 plants that truly are lowest on their list. And while 366 00:20:51,039 --> 00:20:54,160 they may need a little bit of protection when they 367 00:20:54,160 --> 00:20:56,559 are fresh and new, because when something is fresh from 368 00:20:56,599 --> 00:21:00,000 the garden center or grower, that growth is really tender. 369 00:21:00,079 --> 00:21:03,880 It's been super juiced up with water and fertilizer. So 370 00:21:04,039 --> 00:21:06,759 even plants that are deer resistant once they are established, 371 00:21:06,880 --> 00:21:09,119 can be a little bit delicate in those first couple 372 00:21:09,240 --> 00:21:11,960 weeks or months coming home from the garden center. But 373 00:21:12,000 --> 00:21:14,720 if you can get him through that these are plants 374 00:21:14,720 --> 00:21:17,400 that will be a long term investment in your landscape, 375 00:21:17,480 --> 00:21:20,559 no matter if or when or how many deer come up. 376 00:21:20,640 --> 00:21:22,519 But the other reason I wanted to talk about Sweet 377 00:21:22,519 --> 00:21:26,279 Emotion Amlia is because it was just blooming in our 378 00:21:26,319 --> 00:21:29,039 gardens here a few weeks ago, and Adriana and I 379 00:21:29,079 --> 00:21:31,839 were making a video and not on Sweet Emotion. We 380 00:21:31,880 --> 00:21:33,759 were making a video on Whygela that will be out 381 00:21:33,880 --> 00:21:37,759 very shortly, if it's not out already, and all of 382 00:21:37,799 --> 00:21:41,119 a sudden, we just got overwhelmed with this amazing fragrance 383 00:21:41,200 --> 00:21:42,960 and we were like looking all around, you know, there's 384 00:21:42,960 --> 00:21:44,480 so much in bloom in the garden that we're like, 385 00:21:44,519 --> 00:21:47,960 it could be any number of things, and we quickly 386 00:21:48,000 --> 00:21:51,880 realized it was Sweet Emotion. And the fragrance, I mean, 387 00:21:51,960 --> 00:21:54,559 I like, I'm at a loss for words. It was 388 00:21:54,680 --> 00:21:58,400 so powerful and so lovely. The closest way that I 389 00:21:58,400 --> 00:22:02,079 can describe the fragrance of Sweet Emotion Abilia is it 390 00:22:02,160 --> 00:22:06,920 is like warm jasmine tea. And it was a warm 391 00:22:07,000 --> 00:22:10,079 day when we were out there and the sun just 392 00:22:10,400 --> 00:22:13,960 lifting the fragrance off of these flowers. It was it's glories. 393 00:22:14,000 --> 00:22:17,759 It's intoxicating. There really is very few other plants that 394 00:22:17,920 --> 00:22:21,960 smell this lovely, especially for cold climates like USDA Zone 395 00:22:22,000 --> 00:22:23,279 four five or six. 396 00:22:23,480 --> 00:22:26,079 Speaker 1: So if you can handle a cold climate, is deer 397 00:22:26,200 --> 00:22:30,880 resistant fragrant blooms, then you add to that the if 398 00:22:30,920 --> 00:22:33,160 I recall correctly, gorgeous fall color. 399 00:22:33,279 --> 00:22:36,079 Speaker 2: Gorgeous fall color a great plant. It is a great plant, 400 00:22:36,079 --> 00:22:39,039 and it's it's about five to six feet tall. Now 401 00:22:39,039 --> 00:22:40,880 we do have a new version coming out of out 402 00:22:41,079 --> 00:22:44,279 next year called Sweet Emotion Blaze just like it. It's 403 00:22:44,319 --> 00:22:46,920 a little bit smaller and it has even better fall color. 404 00:22:46,960 --> 00:22:50,920 But whichever one you find, they're both great plants, a 405 00:22:50,920 --> 00:22:53,319 good choice for hedging. I mean, can you imagine a 406 00:22:53,319 --> 00:22:55,480 hedge of this thing. The fragrance was eighty round. It 407 00:22:55,559 --> 00:22:56,880 was with me and she's just shaking her head right 408 00:22:56,880 --> 00:23:00,680 now because the fragrance was so amazing, and it attracts 409 00:23:00,680 --> 00:23:03,960 swallowtail butterflies. I see lots of pollinators on it as well. 410 00:23:04,079 --> 00:23:06,839 So a nice versatile plant. You don't have to worry 411 00:23:06,839 --> 00:23:11,440 about the deer eating it. Multi seasons of interest, and 412 00:23:12,000 --> 00:23:13,480 it is one of those plants that I think you 413 00:23:13,640 --> 00:23:17,200 just are like, wow, all this and it's deer resistant, 414 00:23:17,279 --> 00:23:18,759 not just like eh, the deer won't eat it, like 415 00:23:18,799 --> 00:23:20,759 this is not a plant where they're eating the flowers, 416 00:23:21,599 --> 00:23:24,319 which often happens to you that the plant itself will 417 00:23:24,319 --> 00:23:26,400 be deer resistant, but they like to eat the flowers. 418 00:23:26,400 --> 00:23:28,799 This is the case with a lot of viburnums which 419 00:23:28,839 --> 00:23:30,839 are on a lot of deer resistant lists. And no, 420 00:23:30,920 --> 00:23:32,799 they won't ruin your plant, but you will never get 421 00:23:32,799 --> 00:23:36,240 a flower or fruit on your plant if you have deer. 422 00:23:36,559 --> 00:23:39,200 So that's Sweet Emotion Abelia. I think it is a 423 00:23:39,240 --> 00:23:42,519 fantastic plant. If you don't have one, go visit a 424 00:23:42,519 --> 00:23:44,279 garden center. Maybe it's still in bloom so you can 425 00:23:44,279 --> 00:23:46,680 at least smell it, because it is really a treat 426 00:23:46,799 --> 00:23:49,279 and a plant that you will be very glad to 427 00:23:49,400 --> 00:23:53,119 have in your yard, even though the deer will not 428 00:23:53,480 --> 00:23:56,039 for once. So you can find out more information at 429 00:23:56,079 --> 00:23:58,079 Gardening Simplified on air dot com, or just visit your 430 00:23:58,119 --> 00:24:00,880 local garden center and ask them for Sweet Emotion Abelia 431 00:24:00,960 --> 00:24:03,799 from Proven Winner's Color Choice Shrubs. It's part of our 432 00:24:03,799 --> 00:24:05,920 Deerproof program and we will put a link to the 433 00:24:05,920 --> 00:24:09,119 Deerproof program there so you can also see all of 434 00:24:09,160 --> 00:24:12,599 the other plants that are available for you. If you 435 00:24:12,640 --> 00:24:14,319 struggle with your like we do, We're going to take 436 00:24:14,319 --> 00:24:15,839 a little break. When we come back, we're opening up 437 00:24:15,839 --> 00:24:25,559 the mailbag, so please stay tuned. At Proven Winners Color 438 00:24:25,640 --> 00:24:28,799 Choice Shrubs, we know that a better landscape starts with 439 00:24:28,880 --> 00:24:32,200 a better shrub. Our team of experts tests and evaluates 440 00:24:32,240 --> 00:24:34,599 all of our flowering shrubs in evergreens for eight to 441 00:24:34,640 --> 00:24:38,319 ten years to ensure they outperform what's already on the market. 442 00:24:38,480 --> 00:24:42,680 For easycare, reliable, beautiful shrubs to accentuate your home and 443 00:24:42,759 --> 00:24:45,599 express your personal style, look for Proven Winner's Shrubs in 444 00:24:45,680 --> 00:24:48,559 the distinctive white container at your local garden center, or 445 00:24:48,640 --> 00:24:53,519 learn more at Proven Winner's Color Choice dot com. Greetings 446 00:24:53,559 --> 00:24:56,920 gardening friends, and welcome back to the Gardening Simplified Show, 447 00:24:57,039 --> 00:25:00,799 where again we're talking about deer. And I think that 448 00:25:00,880 --> 00:25:04,640 Rick and I could fill several shows talking about deer, 449 00:25:05,680 --> 00:25:09,039 not necessarily because it's a topic that we enjoy discussing, 450 00:25:09,160 --> 00:25:11,200 like we have had other shows where we were like 451 00:25:11,200 --> 00:25:13,319 we could talk about this for days. But I think 452 00:25:13,359 --> 00:25:15,200 it's a topic that both you and I Rick have 453 00:25:15,319 --> 00:25:19,359 learned so much about, and that to me is one 454 00:25:19,359 --> 00:25:22,039 of the reasons why it's so interesting, is because I 455 00:25:22,240 --> 00:25:25,720 would not have learned nearly as much about plants and 456 00:25:25,759 --> 00:25:29,640 gardening as I have because I've had to deal with deer. 457 00:25:29,839 --> 00:25:32,960 Speaker 1: Yeah, you're forced into it and working in the garden center, 458 00:25:33,039 --> 00:25:36,720 even this past weekend, when you stand around and chat 459 00:25:36,799 --> 00:25:40,160 with folks who are shopping for plants, usually one of 460 00:25:40,160 --> 00:25:44,039 the first words out of their mouth, will the deer 461 00:25:44,079 --> 00:25:44,720 eat this thing? 462 00:25:45,039 --> 00:25:48,519 Speaker 2: Because they don't know it's and it's hard, frustrating, it's frustrating, 463 00:25:48,519 --> 00:25:50,720 and you know, a lot of plant tags just aren't 464 00:25:50,759 --> 00:25:53,680 that informative. We do for proofn minners, colored choice shrubs, 465 00:25:53,920 --> 00:25:56,960 we do have a deer resistance scale on all of 466 00:25:56,960 --> 00:25:59,359 our tags, so we have the deerproof plants. You know, 467 00:25:59,400 --> 00:26:01,839 those are going to be the highest resistance. But when 468 00:26:01,839 --> 00:26:04,039 you open up our tags, it says, you know, deer 469 00:26:04,079 --> 00:26:07,039 resistance low, medium, high. So we do have that easy 470 00:26:07,079 --> 00:26:11,880 for people to understand, because this is a problem, you know, everywhere. Now, 471 00:26:11,920 --> 00:26:13,839 before I launch into our questions, because they don't want 472 00:26:13,880 --> 00:26:15,319 to take up too much time, I do want to 473 00:26:15,359 --> 00:26:17,920 just make sure we have a few moments to talk 474 00:26:17,960 --> 00:26:21,440 about some key characteristics. If the plant doesn't have an 475 00:26:21,480 --> 00:26:24,759 informative plant tag that you can look for, so hairy 476 00:26:24,759 --> 00:26:27,920 foliage is usually a big one. They don't normally like 477 00:26:28,680 --> 00:26:35,319 things that are hairyer have like texture tom. They don't 478 00:26:35,359 --> 00:26:37,799 like anything that's going to have like a visible sap. 479 00:26:38,720 --> 00:26:41,000 So like anything if you break a little leaf off 480 00:26:41,039 --> 00:26:43,759 and it has like a white sap, not gonna eat that. 481 00:26:45,440 --> 00:26:49,240 And usually things with foliage with fragrance. So I have 482 00:26:49,319 --> 00:26:52,640 an herb garden that is unprotected. They never take a 483 00:26:52,680 --> 00:26:53,960 bite out of any of that. 484 00:26:54,160 --> 00:26:59,240 Speaker 1: So same thing here time or reagano aliums, anything in 485 00:26:59,279 --> 00:27:01,000 the onion fan chives. 486 00:27:00,720 --> 00:27:03,319 Speaker 2: Always basil, which I think is amazing, so happy they 487 00:27:03,319 --> 00:27:06,039 don't eat basil, although they do eat colius like crazy, 488 00:27:06,039 --> 00:27:09,039 but that's not a dirpe, so that's another one. So 489 00:27:09,079 --> 00:27:11,000 if you can feel the foliage and it gives off 490 00:27:11,039 --> 00:27:16,400 like a resinous kind of aroma, that's another really good option. 491 00:27:16,480 --> 00:27:19,200 But some of the plants I feel like are completely inexplicable. 492 00:27:19,240 --> 00:27:22,839 As we've talked about on the show. Taxis you one 493 00:27:22,880 --> 00:27:26,519 of the most toxic plants for most for humans and 494 00:27:26,559 --> 00:27:30,079 probably most other animals eat Deer will eat a taxis 495 00:27:30,279 --> 00:27:31,599 down to its bear branches. 496 00:27:31,759 --> 00:27:35,319 Speaker 1: Yeah, it's crazy, you know. I have Vitex, which smells 497 00:27:35,359 --> 00:27:37,680 like vis vapo rub and they ate it down to 498 00:27:37,759 --> 00:27:41,039 the nubs. They did YUCKU. Yeah, it was crazy. So, 499 00:27:41,519 --> 00:27:45,119 you know, people, there's certain foods you just don't like. 500 00:27:45,440 --> 00:27:48,160 You know, like I don't like jello molds. You know, 501 00:27:48,279 --> 00:27:51,480 these gelatinous salads, I just don't like them. But if 502 00:27:51,519 --> 00:27:53,799 you're hungry enough and that's all there is, well, I 503 00:27:53,799 --> 00:27:54,480 guess you'll lead it. 504 00:27:54,559 --> 00:27:56,759 Speaker 2: Yeah. Right, you don't have much of a choice. 505 00:27:56,559 --> 00:28:01,720 Speaker 1: There, ambrosia salad, you know, pineapple, mandarin, oranges, coconut marshmallows 506 00:28:01,720 --> 00:28:04,599 and sour cream. I'm not going to eat that, but 507 00:28:04,680 --> 00:28:05,799 I will if I'm hungry in. 508 00:28:05,839 --> 00:28:09,759 Speaker 2: Them, I guess. So. So there are some visual cues, 509 00:28:09,799 --> 00:28:12,839 but you can't always rely on them. I mean, roses 510 00:28:12,920 --> 00:28:16,039 are famously a favorite of deer, and of course roses 511 00:28:16,039 --> 00:28:19,880 are famously thorny, but deer will eat any roses. They 512 00:28:19,920 --> 00:28:22,359 are a little bit less attracted to something like the 513 00:28:22,359 --> 00:28:24,480 beach rose, but they'll still ete those. I mean, I've 514 00:28:24,480 --> 00:28:28,839 seen them in my neighborhood totally devoured. So so there's 515 00:28:28,960 --> 00:28:30,799 not so as far as spines and that kind of 516 00:28:30,839 --> 00:28:34,559 thing go not a magical you know key there that 517 00:28:34,599 --> 00:28:36,759 we can share with you. But generally I have found that, 518 00:28:36,799 --> 00:28:39,880 like the resinous fragrances and hairiness. 519 00:28:40,400 --> 00:28:44,240 Speaker 1: Yep, that's true. Pungent fragrances. Russian sage would be in it. 520 00:28:44,359 --> 00:28:47,720 Speaker 2: Oh yeah, they definitely don't like that plant. So it's 521 00:28:47,839 --> 00:28:50,759 just a guideline. But this is a situation where certainly, 522 00:28:50,799 --> 00:28:53,279 if you have a lot of deer, if you're new 523 00:28:53,359 --> 00:28:56,960 to gardening with deer, you know, get your plant list experiment. 524 00:28:58,000 --> 00:29:02,039 And oh another thing I wanted to say, Like I said, 525 00:29:02,119 --> 00:29:03,799 if plants that are fresh from the garden center are 526 00:29:03,839 --> 00:29:06,079 going to be more susceptible to deer than plants that 527 00:29:06,240 --> 00:29:11,039 are established. Also, I find that it helps a lot 528 00:29:11,160 --> 00:29:14,200 to get bigger plants if you can. So, if you're 529 00:29:14,200 --> 00:29:15,480 at the garden center and you're going to buy a 530 00:29:15,480 --> 00:29:17,200 shrub and you have a choice between a one gallon 531 00:29:17,240 --> 00:29:19,079 shrub and a three gallon shrub and you have deer, 532 00:29:19,599 --> 00:29:21,960 get the three gallon because that one gallon is a 533 00:29:22,000 --> 00:29:24,599 snack for a deer that three gallon And when it's 534 00:29:24,599 --> 00:29:28,720 got those thicker branches, they're a lot less likely to 535 00:29:28,880 --> 00:29:33,599 bite into thicker, more mature wood or stems than thinner wood. 536 00:29:33,799 --> 00:29:36,759 Speaker 1: Now in the area where we live here in Michigan, 537 00:29:37,000 --> 00:29:40,079 would you say that the standard that's held up as 538 00:29:40,200 --> 00:29:43,599 deer food would be hostas and tulips. 539 00:29:43,319 --> 00:29:46,920 Speaker 2: Hostas, tulips daylilies. Yeah, you gotta get the daililies in there. 540 00:29:47,000 --> 00:29:51,119 Ok Yeah, so you got something for every season, tulips 541 00:29:51,119 --> 00:29:54,480 in the spring, hostas and daylilies in the summer. Okay, well, 542 00:29:54,559 --> 00:29:59,960 let's try to hold. We have a question from Leslie. 543 00:30:00,079 --> 00:30:02,920 Speaker 1: Leslie, Hi, guys absolutely love to show and appreciate the 544 00:30:03,000 --> 00:30:06,039 chance to hit play and zone out the world and 545 00:30:06,200 --> 00:30:09,480 think about plants. I love that too. Our house has 546 00:30:09,519 --> 00:30:13,359 a very old, absolutely massive dragon Lady Holly. The leaves 547 00:30:13,400 --> 00:30:16,720 are so sharp ouch. There's a lot of swearing during 548 00:30:16,839 --> 00:30:20,680 the spring cleanup. It gets loaded with flowers every May, 549 00:30:20,720 --> 00:30:25,160 but never berries. I bought a boyfriend a blueprint last year, 550 00:30:25,160 --> 00:30:28,039 but they won't sync up and bloom on time. I 551 00:30:28,119 --> 00:30:31,599 suspect it's due to unequal sun. The dragon Lady's about 552 00:30:31,599 --> 00:30:34,640 to open flowers again. The blueprints has already done. Can 553 00:30:34,680 --> 00:30:37,160 I go buy any mail with open flowers to try 554 00:30:37,160 --> 00:30:39,119 and force berries this year? Or is it going to 555 00:30:39,160 --> 00:30:43,440 be a fruitless pursuit? Leslie? I like your sense of humus. 556 00:30:43,920 --> 00:30:45,240 Speaker 2: She got a little pun in there for you. 557 00:30:45,440 --> 00:30:47,279 Speaker 1: Yeah, and when the heck, are you supposed to cut 558 00:30:47,319 --> 00:30:48,799 this thing? Yes, you gotta helpless. 559 00:30:49,039 --> 00:30:51,279 Speaker 2: We too have to help Leslie, and now is the time. 560 00:30:52,200 --> 00:30:54,920 So if you have a holly, now, Leslie, dragon Lady 561 00:30:55,079 --> 00:30:57,880 is kind of like a blue holly. I actually think 562 00:30:57,920 --> 00:31:00,200 it might be a hybrid. But in any case, whether 563 00:31:00,240 --> 00:31:03,960 you have a winterberry holly or an American holly or 564 00:31:04,000 --> 00:31:07,319 one of these blue Holli's English holly, whatever holly you have, 565 00:31:07,400 --> 00:31:09,079 they are all dioecious, which is to say, they have 566 00:31:09,119 --> 00:31:12,240 separate male and female plants. Only the females get the berries. 567 00:31:12,480 --> 00:31:14,519 But you do need to have at least one male 568 00:31:14,640 --> 00:31:17,160 for every four to five females to make sure that 569 00:31:17,200 --> 00:31:21,759 the females actually do develop fruit. Now, the absence of 570 00:31:21,799 --> 00:31:25,160 fruit alone is not going to tell you whether your 571 00:31:25,160 --> 00:31:27,319 plant is male or female, because there's all sorts of 572 00:31:27,440 --> 00:31:30,720 reasons why your plant might not have fruit on it. 573 00:31:31,200 --> 00:31:33,880 The only way, there's only one single way to tell, 574 00:31:33,920 --> 00:31:37,319 and it is that narrow window when the plant flowers, 575 00:31:37,359 --> 00:31:39,799 and you need to look closely at the flowers to 576 00:31:39,880 --> 00:31:42,960 tell whether they're male or female. Fortunately, it's very simple. 577 00:31:43,359 --> 00:31:45,920 The female, because it is going to turn into the berry, 578 00:31:46,359 --> 00:31:50,599 has a tiny green sphere sort of in the center. 579 00:31:50,960 --> 00:31:53,680 It's small, but it's noticeable. It sticks up prominently from 580 00:31:53,720 --> 00:31:57,240 above the flower, so it's easy to see. The male, meanwhile, 581 00:31:57,319 --> 00:31:59,039 does not have that in the center, and it has 582 00:31:59,200 --> 00:32:03,720 fluffy anther. Interestingly, the female flowers some on some hollies 583 00:32:04,240 --> 00:32:07,960 do produce fake anthers in an attempt to fake out 584 00:32:08,000 --> 00:32:11,119 the pollinators and make them think they're gonna get pollen 585 00:32:11,160 --> 00:32:14,079 and nectar when in fact, nope, oops, you just delivered pollen. 586 00:32:14,720 --> 00:32:19,559 Nothing here for you, ha ha psich. So that's a 587 00:32:19,799 --> 00:32:21,759 don't just look for the anthers, but look for that 588 00:32:21,799 --> 00:32:23,880 green dot. If it has a green dot, it's a female. 589 00:32:24,200 --> 00:32:26,880 No green dot and fluffy anthers, it's a male. 590 00:32:27,759 --> 00:32:27,880 Speaker 3: Now. 591 00:32:27,960 --> 00:32:31,000 Speaker 2: Leslie actually wrote a couple days after she sent this message, 592 00:32:31,799 --> 00:32:36,279 and she's and the subject line was, oh my gosh, 593 00:32:36,440 --> 00:32:40,359 is my Holly a boy? And she sent a picture 594 00:32:40,440 --> 00:32:42,799 now that it was flowering, and sure enough this what 595 00:32:43,000 --> 00:32:46,240 she had thought was a dragon Lady Holly was actually 596 00:32:46,279 --> 00:32:49,200 a male and that was why it was not getting 597 00:32:49,279 --> 00:32:52,400 any So now is the time to check your plants. 598 00:32:52,440 --> 00:32:54,079 You can only find out for sure when they are 599 00:32:54,079 --> 00:32:57,359 in flower again. You're gonna want one male to every 600 00:32:57,359 --> 00:33:00,599 four to five females, you were gonna want them planted 601 00:33:00,640 --> 00:33:03,839 within ideally fifty feet of one another. This is sort 602 00:33:03,839 --> 00:33:06,680 of the general distance that they recommend for insects to 603 00:33:07,119 --> 00:33:10,559 cover on their foraging trips. And of course the bloom 604 00:33:10,599 --> 00:33:14,480 times have to overlap exactly because, as Leslie pointed out, 605 00:33:15,119 --> 00:33:17,839 if they don't flower at the same time the poland 606 00:33:17,880 --> 00:33:20,000 they can't pollinate because there's no pollen there when the 607 00:33:20,000 --> 00:33:23,720 females are open, or vice versa. If you don't know 608 00:33:24,079 --> 00:33:27,599 there is, this is funny. There is a blue holly 609 00:33:27,680 --> 00:33:28,759 called blue stallion. 610 00:33:28,960 --> 00:33:30,720 Speaker 1: Yes, there is. 611 00:33:32,640 --> 00:33:36,119 Speaker 2: A very apt name. Blue Stallion has a longer bloom period, 612 00:33:36,160 --> 00:33:37,960 so this is kind of like you're all purpose if 613 00:33:37,960 --> 00:33:41,319 you don't know exactly when or what male to pick. 614 00:33:41,440 --> 00:33:43,640 Blue stallion is kind of like your safe pick for 615 00:33:43,680 --> 00:33:45,000 blue hollies because. 616 00:33:44,799 --> 00:33:48,160 Speaker 1: You can readily find the blue prints. But some people 617 00:33:48,200 --> 00:33:50,559 get frustrated to the point they want a stallion. 618 00:33:50,799 --> 00:33:54,599 Speaker 2: Yes, right, so blue stallion. And the thing is Leslie 619 00:33:54,599 --> 00:33:56,160 asks if she can just go to the garden center 620 00:33:56,200 --> 00:33:58,000 and buy one that's in bloom at the same time. 621 00:33:58,440 --> 00:34:01,759 That's not a full proof method because any plants at 622 00:34:01,799 --> 00:34:03,839 the garden center would have come from a grower or 623 00:34:03,880 --> 00:34:06,480 have been overwintered by the garden center. That means they 624 00:34:06,519 --> 00:34:08,960 got a head start on the season compared to being 625 00:34:09,039 --> 00:34:13,199 outdoors in your yard. Therefore, they'll be at different phases. 626 00:34:13,199 --> 00:34:14,840 And sometimes that's even going to be an issue if 627 00:34:14,880 --> 00:34:18,000 you find a competible pollinator, and of course it's bloom 628 00:34:18,000 --> 00:34:23,199 time is off for that first year. As for when 629 00:34:23,239 --> 00:34:25,159 are you supposed to cut this thing, well, the good news, 630 00:34:25,199 --> 00:34:27,840 leslie is male hollies can be cut any time after 631 00:34:27,880 --> 00:34:30,440 they're finished blooming. If you cut them and provene them back, 632 00:34:30,480 --> 00:34:34,599 then no harm done. Female hollies, on the other hand, 633 00:34:34,800 --> 00:34:38,440 really cannot be successfully pruned unless you're willing to sacrifice 634 00:34:38,559 --> 00:34:41,639 flowers and or fruit, because if you cut them in 635 00:34:41,679 --> 00:34:43,519 the spring before they bloom, you'll be cutting off the 636 00:34:43,519 --> 00:34:46,079 flower buds. If you cut them after they bloom, you'll 637 00:34:46,119 --> 00:34:47,880 be cutting off the fruit. So the best thing to 638 00:34:47,880 --> 00:34:50,960 do is to try to cite them appropriately, minimal pruning, 639 00:34:51,079 --> 00:34:54,320 or just you know, resolve yourself to not having any 640 00:34:54,320 --> 00:34:55,119 flowers one year. 641 00:34:55,360 --> 00:34:59,440 Speaker 1: We're handling prickly difficult issues today we are. 642 00:34:59,519 --> 00:35:01,159 Speaker 2: It is a had you heard of. 643 00:35:01,119 --> 00:35:04,760 Speaker 1: The phenomenon where a holly plant the foliage and the 644 00:35:04,800 --> 00:35:08,719 lower portion reachable by deer are more prickly and thorny 645 00:35:08,840 --> 00:35:10,280 than in the upper portion of them. 646 00:35:10,400 --> 00:35:14,360 Speaker 2: Yeah. Junipers do that too. Yeah, it's like an ivy 647 00:35:14,360 --> 00:35:16,719 does that as well. So it's like a juvenile and 648 00:35:16,840 --> 00:35:19,400 mature foliage thing that the plants create so that they 649 00:35:19,440 --> 00:35:22,639 are less subject to predation on that lower growth. But yeah, 650 00:35:22,639 --> 00:35:24,639 all that's a great way to bring it into today's 651 00:35:25,519 --> 00:35:26,519 theme of deer. 652 00:35:26,679 --> 00:35:29,039 Speaker 1: Like you said, we could do three or four shows. 653 00:35:28,760 --> 00:35:31,519 Speaker 2: On this top and then some so in any case, 654 00:35:31,559 --> 00:35:34,920 thank you Leslie for your question. And if you have 655 00:35:34,920 --> 00:35:36,920 a question for us, you can reach us at Gardening 656 00:35:36,920 --> 00:35:38,960 Simplified to on air dot com, or just go to 657 00:35:38,960 --> 00:35:41,599 proven Owner's Color Choice dot com hit the contact tab 658 00:35:41,639 --> 00:35:44,920 and we'll get you an answer much quicker than here. 659 00:35:45,039 --> 00:35:46,920 On the show. We're going to take a little break 660 00:35:46,920 --> 00:35:48,599 and when we come back, we've got a special guest 661 00:35:48,639 --> 00:35:51,039 and of course a little bit more chatter on deer. 662 00:35:58,679 --> 00:36:01,480 Thanks for listening to the Gardening Simplified Podcast, brought to 663 00:36:01,519 --> 00:36:04,480 you by Proven Winners Color Choice Shrubs. Our award winning 664 00:36:04,519 --> 00:36:07,599 flowering shrubs and evergreens are trialed and tested by experts 665 00:36:07,639 --> 00:36:10,519 with your success in mind. Learn more at Proven winners 666 00:36:10,599 --> 00:36:13,119 color Choice dot Com. 667 00:36:13,599 --> 00:36:16,960 Speaker 1: Welcome back to the Gardening Simplified Show. Special guest here 668 00:36:17,000 --> 00:36:20,639 on the show, Ali Locker. She is a professor in 669 00:36:20,719 --> 00:36:25,639 Natural Resources management and wildlife biology programs with Grand Valley 670 00:36:25,719 --> 00:36:29,280 State University and Ali, thanks for joining us on the show. 671 00:36:29,400 --> 00:36:33,639 Had the chance to meet you at the Deer Management Coalition. 672 00:36:34,960 --> 00:36:38,840 Pretty amazing when you take a look at a community 673 00:36:39,000 --> 00:36:43,119 like Kent County here in Michigan. The deer problem that 674 00:36:43,719 --> 00:36:45,039 we all struggle. 675 00:36:44,599 --> 00:36:48,360 Speaker 3: With, right, Yeah, it is, and it's more than just 676 00:36:48,400 --> 00:36:52,320 a deer problem. I think it's a human problem too. 677 00:36:52,559 --> 00:36:54,920 People tend to operate as if we were in a 678 00:36:54,960 --> 00:36:59,800 bubble and completely disconnected from the outside world and unaware 679 00:37:00,119 --> 00:37:04,559 how our actions, even if seemingly small, create these consequences 680 00:37:04,599 --> 00:37:07,599 and then define as the deer problem, especially when they're 681 00:37:07,599 --> 00:37:09,360 considered cumulatively. 682 00:37:10,719 --> 00:37:15,239 Speaker 1: Yeah, amazing statistics that were shared at this meeting alley 683 00:37:16,000 --> 00:37:21,320 about how dense the population of deer are, and it 684 00:37:21,400 --> 00:37:24,760 seems as though the problem is only getting worse as 685 00:37:24,760 --> 00:37:30,679 far as car deer crashes are concerned. Landscape damage et cetera, 686 00:37:30,760 --> 00:37:33,880 et cetera. Some of it, of course, due to suburban 687 00:37:34,119 --> 00:37:39,559 sprawl in your surveys and in your work with a 688 00:37:39,639 --> 00:37:43,599 county such as Kent County for Grand Valley State University, 689 00:37:43,679 --> 00:37:47,719 what is your goal? What are you trying to accomplish? 690 00:37:47,760 --> 00:37:51,639 Are you trying to educate people on the issue or 691 00:37:51,639 --> 00:37:56,679 go beyond that and actually find some solutions. Are there solutions? 692 00:37:57,599 --> 00:38:00,519 Speaker 3: Well, it's kind of both of those. Yes, we definitely 693 00:38:00,559 --> 00:38:02,800 are trying to educate people. I think a lot of 694 00:38:02,800 --> 00:38:08,480 people are really unaware of the problem. They're unaware like 695 00:38:09,480 --> 00:38:14,760 their individual actions are contributing or expanding this problems. They're 696 00:38:14,840 --> 00:38:20,280 unaware of statistics like cardier crashes and the number of 697 00:38:20,360 --> 00:38:24,960 roadkilled deer has exceeded the number of hunter harvested deer 698 00:38:25,159 --> 00:38:27,559 in Ken County over the past year, and people just 699 00:38:27,800 --> 00:38:30,760 people that are not aware of that. So, yes, we 700 00:38:30,840 --> 00:38:35,960 are trying to educate people with empirical data that's collected 701 00:38:36,119 --> 00:38:40,199 and presented in a way that's easily understood by non 702 00:38:40,280 --> 00:38:43,280 scientists or in a way that people can relate to. 703 00:38:44,119 --> 00:38:49,800 We also are working towards developing management recommendations. And this 704 00:38:49,880 --> 00:38:55,679 is a collective effort. This isn't the the researchers dictating 705 00:38:55,719 --> 00:39:01,239 what needs to happen. It's multifaceted and we're we're taking 706 00:39:01,239 --> 00:39:05,519 input in suggestions and ideas that the residents also have. 707 00:39:05,960 --> 00:39:09,440 We have numbers on privacied deer, roadkilled deer, we have 708 00:39:09,559 --> 00:39:13,519 numbers on estimated deer densities or areas where there's higher 709 00:39:13,599 --> 00:39:19,079 versus lower concentrations of deer throughout different seasons. And we've 710 00:39:19,119 --> 00:39:23,320 got input from residents through the two surveys that we've implemented. 711 00:39:23,480 --> 00:39:27,079 We're going to layer them all using mapping technology and 712 00:39:27,119 --> 00:39:32,440 statistics to identify deer management zones within Kent County and 713 00:39:32,559 --> 00:39:37,000 have overall recommendations for the entire county, but then specific 714 00:39:37,119 --> 00:39:40,760 recommendations for each of those management zones that we can 715 00:39:40,800 --> 00:39:42,159 present to the local government. 716 00:39:43,199 --> 00:39:45,719 Speaker 2: Now, one thing that you've mentioned twice in the very 717 00:39:45,719 --> 00:39:48,320 short time we've been talking is you don't use is 718 00:39:48,559 --> 00:39:51,159 you said that humans are contributing and they don't even 719 00:39:51,199 --> 00:39:54,079 realize it. So I'm curious what are the ways that 720 00:39:54,199 --> 00:39:58,920 humans are contributing. You know that we could modify perhaps 721 00:39:58,920 --> 00:40:00,079 our behaviors. 722 00:40:00,119 --> 00:40:03,960 Speaker 3: You know, in our society the dollar time money drives everything, 723 00:40:04,239 --> 00:40:09,159 and expansion mentioned urban sprawl that is contributing a problem. 724 00:40:09,239 --> 00:40:13,000 So in an area with maybe wooded or rural building, 725 00:40:13,039 --> 00:40:18,039 one house probably doesn't have any effects, but building several 726 00:40:18,039 --> 00:40:24,199 houses or several subdivisions trematively over time does Deer as 727 00:40:24,199 --> 00:40:29,559 a species have evolved as prey just like mice. And 728 00:40:30,159 --> 00:40:36,039 in these systems where humans are expanding and altering the structure, compositions, 729 00:40:36,079 --> 00:40:41,119 functioning of natural ecosystems, we've removed the predator, and in 730 00:40:41,280 --> 00:40:46,519 systems you need that predator to maintain balance and biodiversity. 731 00:40:46,880 --> 00:40:50,880 So if we've altered these landscapes with our development and 732 00:40:50,960 --> 00:40:56,400 created conditions that are very favorable for expanding deer populations, 733 00:40:56,800 --> 00:41:00,960 that's a problem. So like mice the ticken coop, You're 734 00:41:02,000 --> 00:41:05,119 you're beating the tickens, but all of the mice are 735 00:41:05,119 --> 00:41:10,840 benefiting from that, and the populations get out of control. So, 736 00:41:11,480 --> 00:41:15,079 you know, with provisions of adequate habitat, we're providing for 737 00:41:15,199 --> 00:41:19,840 dear you know, spawning areas underneath people's trampolines, or security 738 00:41:19,920 --> 00:41:24,199 cover in the row of trees between neighboring houses. We've 739 00:41:24,320 --> 00:41:29,960 also with this expansion, we decreased the amount of available 740 00:41:30,079 --> 00:41:34,800 land for hunting. Maybe there's a decreased interest in hunting, 741 00:41:35,320 --> 00:41:41,400 but the surplus number of deer needs to go somewhere, 742 00:41:42,159 --> 00:41:45,000 So they're running out into the roads. It's a it's 743 00:41:45,039 --> 00:41:45,840 a big problem. 744 00:41:46,320 --> 00:41:49,760 Speaker 1: Yeah, it certainly is. We're talking to Alexandra Locker. She 745 00:41:49,880 --> 00:41:54,400 is a professor natural Resources Management and wildlife Biology programs 746 00:41:54,440 --> 00:41:58,320 with Grand Valley State University. Before we let you go, Allie, 747 00:41:58,400 --> 00:42:00,760 just wanted to ask you in your work on this 748 00:42:00,840 --> 00:42:05,880 and thank you for your work in surveying and working 749 00:42:06,039 --> 00:42:11,360 with the community. Do you find that there is general 750 00:42:11,440 --> 00:42:15,800 consensus among people that we have an issue here that 751 00:42:16,639 --> 00:42:21,000 we have to find management techniques or have you found 752 00:42:21,079 --> 00:42:25,760 this to be kind of an emotional difficult issue when 753 00:42:25,800 --> 00:42:27,320 you're dealing with the community. 754 00:42:27,519 --> 00:42:30,719 Speaker 3: It is very emotional people. You are very charismatic, and 755 00:42:30,920 --> 00:42:34,760 some people you know, have found their connection with nature 756 00:42:34,880 --> 00:42:37,239 through deer. They like to see the deer, they like 757 00:42:37,320 --> 00:42:39,880 to feed the deer, but they also are concerned for 758 00:42:39,920 --> 00:42:41,440 the well being of the deer and they don't want 759 00:42:41,480 --> 00:42:46,400 to see any deer be harmed. And that's totally understandable. 760 00:42:47,599 --> 00:42:50,159 But the reality is that the deer are being harmed, 761 00:42:50,440 --> 00:42:53,760 like if we don't have any hunting involved in serving 762 00:42:53,800 --> 00:42:57,519 that role as like a predator, the deer are being 763 00:42:57,920 --> 00:43:03,719 killed by vehicles and that's not respectful. And I don't 764 00:43:03,719 --> 00:43:07,079 think some people might not even think it's ethical. You're 765 00:43:07,440 --> 00:43:11,400 that are being killed that way, are suffering in the road, 766 00:43:11,440 --> 00:43:14,320 and then the bodies are being dumped into a landfill, 767 00:43:14,880 --> 00:43:18,559 whereas if they were harvested, you know, they could be 768 00:43:18,719 --> 00:43:23,239 used for food and for leather and for for other resources, 769 00:43:23,280 --> 00:43:28,960 which is respectful to the deer. So as your question, 770 00:43:29,079 --> 00:43:32,320 it's it's a it's a complicated scenario with a lot 771 00:43:32,360 --> 00:43:35,559 of different layers, and we are considering the emotional aspect. 772 00:43:35,639 --> 00:43:39,079 I think we we have to in this to find 773 00:43:39,079 --> 00:43:43,559 a solution, and most people do recognize that something has 774 00:43:43,639 --> 00:43:47,880 to be done. And through these public surveys that we did, 775 00:43:48,840 --> 00:43:53,840 it was really refreshing and relieving that pretty much everybody 776 00:43:53,880 --> 00:43:55,639 was on the same page. You know, there are some 777 00:43:55,719 --> 00:43:57,880 skeptics that don't think that there is a problem, but 778 00:43:58,760 --> 00:44:02,559 overall it was it was really nice to see the 779 00:44:02,639 --> 00:44:05,119 community coming together saying, Okay, how can we put our 780 00:44:05,119 --> 00:44:08,360 minds together and do something that's better. 781 00:44:09,119 --> 00:44:11,599 Speaker 1: Wow, that's great. Yes, we all have to work together 782 00:44:12,079 --> 00:44:15,559 towards those solutions. Thank you, Ali for your time and 783 00:44:15,599 --> 00:44:18,800 for the work that you do. Again. Her name is 784 00:44:18,800 --> 00:44:24,719 Alexandra Locker's Professor Natural Resources Management, Wildlife Biology programs at 785 00:44:24,800 --> 00:44:28,280 Grand Valley State University. Thanks for spending a few moments 786 00:44:28,280 --> 00:44:28,920 with us today. 787 00:44:30,039 --> 00:44:32,400 Speaker 3: Thank you my pleasure, thank. 788 00:44:32,199 --> 00:44:35,800 Speaker 1: You, thank you, Ali Stacy so as Ali said, it's 789 00:44:35,840 --> 00:44:38,599 an emotional issue, but there are things that we can 790 00:44:38,679 --> 00:44:41,360 do and I have been successful. I know you have 791 00:44:41,519 --> 00:44:45,039 two implanting some deer resistant plants and I love the 792 00:44:45,079 --> 00:44:50,599 proven winners Color Choice Shrubs Deer Proof line of plants 793 00:44:50,639 --> 00:44:53,480 because I can tell you working in the greenhouse, customers 794 00:44:53,559 --> 00:44:56,599 love being able to pick out a sprinter, boxwood or 795 00:44:56,679 --> 00:45:02,400 the Sweet and Low, any of those plants. Potentilla a 796 00:45:02,400 --> 00:45:04,960 great choice. There are options out there. 797 00:45:05,000 --> 00:45:07,519 Speaker 2: There are so many options out there, and you know, 798 00:45:07,639 --> 00:45:09,719 as gardeners, I think Rick, you and I are maybe 799 00:45:09,719 --> 00:45:12,800 a little bit willing to experiment with things, and there 800 00:45:12,800 --> 00:45:14,559 are certainly people out there who are just like I'm 801 00:45:14,559 --> 00:45:16,920 not going to take a risk. But I think that 802 00:45:17,199 --> 00:45:20,119 for us, our trial and error has actually paid off 803 00:45:20,159 --> 00:45:22,679 and we have a good list of plants that we love. 804 00:45:23,119 --> 00:45:26,239 We're not settling. These are great plants that we actually 805 00:45:26,239 --> 00:45:29,719 love to see that we can grow without any production. 806 00:45:29,679 --> 00:45:33,360 Speaker 1: No question, and they fulfill a lot of needs. Brunera 807 00:45:33,639 --> 00:45:41,239 of course, Pulmon area and hellebores. We mentioned Russian sage, iris, aliums, tribes, 808 00:45:41,320 --> 00:45:44,880 the herbs, all of these plants. Menarda is a you know, 809 00:45:44,960 --> 00:45:47,960 a plant that's been around for ages, although there's wonderful 810 00:45:48,039 --> 00:45:50,440 new cultivars and does a great job with deer. 811 00:45:50,480 --> 00:45:53,599 Speaker 2: Resists deer or rabbits. I'm not sure which do you 812 00:45:53,679 --> 00:45:54,519 eat my Menarda? 813 00:45:54,840 --> 00:45:55,159 Speaker 1: Do they? 814 00:45:55,360 --> 00:45:58,400 Speaker 2: But you know what, iris always surprise me. Yeah, I 815 00:45:58,400 --> 00:46:00,559 mean iris are one of those plants there's so pretty. 816 00:46:00,920 --> 00:46:03,400 I mean, they don't have any particular odor or smell, 817 00:46:03,599 --> 00:46:07,480 and they never ever, actually shouldn't say that they did 818 00:46:07,480 --> 00:46:09,840 eat my Iris reticulata, but they don't eat like the 819 00:46:09,840 --> 00:46:12,719 bearded iris to Siberian iris, all the irises that are blooming, 820 00:46:12,800 --> 00:46:15,840 you know now in early summer, they leave them completely alone. 821 00:46:15,920 --> 00:46:19,440 Speaker 1: I have a cultivar called Purple Flame. The spring, the 822 00:46:19,519 --> 00:46:21,880 deer ate all the flowers off it and some of 823 00:46:21,920 --> 00:46:25,199 the folds, and that's the first time I've had iris 824 00:46:25,320 --> 00:46:28,679 damage in my landscape. Now again, we had a rough 825 00:46:28,760 --> 00:46:31,920 winter this past winter and the deer were hungry. So 826 00:46:32,440 --> 00:46:35,960 you know the whole point is that, you know, we 827 00:46:36,000 --> 00:46:40,519 can make these lists of resistant plants, but if deer 828 00:46:40,559 --> 00:46:43,679 are hungry enough, they may venture into just about anything. 829 00:46:43,719 --> 00:46:46,719 Speaker 2: Well, there's that. And people also need to realize that 830 00:46:46,920 --> 00:46:50,239 the fawns the baby deer, you know, they don't just 831 00:46:50,280 --> 00:46:53,400 get downloaded like a book of knowledge of plants that 832 00:46:53,440 --> 00:46:56,719 they can eat when they're born. They do have to 833 00:46:56,719 --> 00:46:59,320 figure it out, and so there are periods where the 834 00:46:59,400 --> 00:47:01,679 fawns are to kind of strike out on their own, 835 00:47:02,400 --> 00:47:04,760 where they sample things that deer normally won't and they 836 00:47:04,760 --> 00:47:06,840 don't eat a lot, you know, but it might be 837 00:47:06,920 --> 00:47:09,639 a situation where you are seeing some damage because the 838 00:47:09,679 --> 00:47:13,239 fawns learn much like humans do by doing so, they 839 00:47:13,360 --> 00:47:17,119 learn by sampling, and so sometimes you will see those occasional, 840 00:47:17,320 --> 00:47:19,599 you know, plants that they don't usually eat with a 841 00:47:19,599 --> 00:47:22,320 little bit of and yeah, maybe they just choke it down. 842 00:47:22,400 --> 00:47:24,519 They're like, this was terrible, but I ate it anyway. 843 00:47:24,800 --> 00:47:28,559 Speaker 1: It's no fawn watching them eat your plants. And yeah, 844 00:47:28,760 --> 00:47:32,119 sometimes they just choke it down. But the parents are watching, 845 00:47:32,239 --> 00:47:34,920 and I guess if they're good and they eat everything 846 00:47:34,920 --> 00:47:37,559 on their plate, they take them to the dearie queen 847 00:47:37,719 --> 00:47:39,960 for a treat. Just bad. I know. 848 00:47:41,519 --> 00:47:44,679 Speaker 2: That was bad, Rick, Well, dear can't spin anything out either, 849 00:47:44,800 --> 00:47:47,360 so if they try something. They just have to chew 850 00:47:47,480 --> 00:47:50,199 until it goes down, so you're gonna eat it and 851 00:47:50,239 --> 00:47:51,519 you're gonna like exactly. 852 00:47:52,760 --> 00:47:56,440 Speaker 1: But even something like bud Leah, you know, I approach 853 00:47:56,519 --> 00:47:59,159 that cautiously in my landscape with a Miss Molly and 854 00:47:59,199 --> 00:48:01,519 a Miss Violet, but they've pretty much left them alone. 855 00:48:01,599 --> 00:48:03,719 Speaker 2: Yeah, I find that they don't eat that. Again, another 856 00:48:03,760 --> 00:48:05,440 plant that I'm not really sure why because it doesn't 857 00:48:05,480 --> 00:48:08,239 seem to have any characteristics that they don't like. But yeah, 858 00:48:08,599 --> 00:48:12,480 I'm glad that they don't. Baptisia, my summarific hibiscus. Sometimes 859 00:48:12,519 --> 00:48:14,400 a couple of them get a little bit of you 860 00:48:14,400 --> 00:48:16,519 can tell it was just like a taste. They were like, my, 861 00:48:16,559 --> 00:48:19,639 wonder if this is any good? No it's not, but 862 00:48:19,800 --> 00:48:22,400 not enough to you know. There's a difference between plants 863 00:48:22,719 --> 00:48:24,960 that the deer will absolutely devour and take down to 864 00:48:25,079 --> 00:48:29,519 nubs and truly ruin, like arborvide And we've all seen 865 00:48:29,559 --> 00:48:32,719 the horrible looking arborvids in our neighborhoods and cities and 866 00:48:32,760 --> 00:48:35,639 everything that the deer ate, and those will never really recover, 867 00:48:35,719 --> 00:48:38,519 same with you, whereas a lot of other things, you know, 868 00:48:38,559 --> 00:48:41,519 they can actually recover if the damage is minimal. 869 00:48:41,719 --> 00:48:44,400 Speaker 1: Yeah, that's exactly it. With the Dutch blood running through 870 00:48:44,440 --> 00:48:48,239 my veins. I love growing bulbs, but I can't grow tulips. 871 00:48:48,280 --> 00:48:50,920 They just it's candy to deer. But I can grow 872 00:48:51,000 --> 00:48:54,679 fritile area, daffodils, iris aliums. 873 00:48:54,760 --> 00:48:57,360 Speaker 2: Those well, those are a fine consolation because those are 874 00:48:57,360 --> 00:48:58,320 all perfectly lovely. 875 00:48:58,679 --> 00:49:03,159 Speaker 1: So you know the tul I guess, go into the compound. 876 00:49:02,679 --> 00:49:04,960 Speaker 2: You go down to holland get your tulip, phil come 877 00:49:05,000 --> 00:49:07,639 back home and get to the good stuff. 878 00:49:07,960 --> 00:49:10,599 Speaker 1: How about if we put a little list on our 879 00:49:10,960 --> 00:49:11,519 show notes. 880 00:49:11,599 --> 00:49:12,119 Speaker 2: Let's do it. 881 00:49:12,239 --> 00:49:15,199 Speaker 1: Let's do that, and you can reference those going to 882 00:49:15,320 --> 00:49:19,719 our website. But boy, maybe we're going to have to 883 00:49:19,760 --> 00:49:21,440 do another show on this topic too. 884 00:49:21,679 --> 00:49:23,679 Speaker 2: I mean, I love talking about it because I feel 885 00:49:23,760 --> 00:49:26,679 like it has been again, such a learning experience for me. 886 00:49:26,719 --> 00:49:30,800 And I would encourage people who have deer to not 887 00:49:30,920 --> 00:49:33,079 just throw up your hands and tear out your landscape. 888 00:49:33,599 --> 00:49:35,719 Use it as a learning opportunity, use it as a 889 00:49:35,760 --> 00:49:41,760 plant palette expansion opportunity. And you know, as gardeners, we're optimists, so. 890 00:49:41,679 --> 00:49:44,039 Speaker 1: Don't give up deer to be different. 891 00:49:47,239 --> 00:49:48,840 Speaker 2: I have to say I was expecting a lot more 892 00:49:48,840 --> 00:49:51,360 puns from you today, but it's been like. 893 00:49:51,280 --> 00:49:54,320 Speaker 1: A lot of deal and me how I controlled. 894 00:49:54,599 --> 00:49:56,840 Speaker 2: I think Leslie had more puns in her message to 895 00:49:56,920 --> 00:49:58,760 us than you have done in the entire show to 896 00:49:58,800 --> 00:50:06,599 dear all right, Well with that, thank you Rix for 897 00:50:06,679 --> 00:50:11,800 your input on Deer, and thanks to Professor Locker, Thanks Adriana, 898 00:50:12,280 --> 00:50:14,000 and thanks so much to all of you for listening. 899 00:50:14,039 --> 00:50:15,679 We hope you have a fantastic week ahead.