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Speaker 1: Hey, so ladies and gentlemen, you now tuned into The

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Truth sticka podcast. I'm your host, truth Seka excited and

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delighted to be with you guys again for another episode.

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Speaker 2: Man.

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Speaker 1: We cover all things spiritual, spirituality, anything and everything in

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between of that, so I hope you guys are ready

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to go deep. We're going deep tonight. Shout out to

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everybody hanging out with us in the live streams, Everybody

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listening on YouTube, Periscope, Twitch, Facebook, no matter where you are, man,

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thanks for tuning in. Shout out to everybody who is

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catching this on the podcasting apps, no matter where you're

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listening from. Thank you guys so much for being a

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part of this community. Means the world. I want to

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give a shout out to everybody supporting my work via Patreon.

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This is a listener supported, listener funded show doesn't exist

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that I'm bringing to the table and making this thing possible. Man.

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Thank you guys, And if you'd like to support, head

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on over to patreon dot com backslash truth Seeker. There

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which is two hundred plus songs, our Thursday Night School

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of the Mystics, and a bunch of really cool stuff

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that we're bringing to the table. So if you're looking

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ideas off of, make sure you check out our discord server.

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You get access to all that stuff as well. Patreon

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dot com, backslash truth Seeker. Also my new book, I

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say new book. It's been out a year. If you

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haven't had a chance to get it, you can get

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it at truth togod dot com. My book Spirit Realm, Angels,

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Demon Spirits and the Sovereignty of God Forward by Jordan Maxwell.

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If you have not had a chance to get it,

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make sure you go to truth toga dot com get

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your copy. If you need a copy of the audiobook,

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one would be provided for you. You can get a

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free audible download by clicking the link that's in the description.

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If you go to my audible trial, you can listen

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to me read it to you for free. Make sure

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you check it out Spirit Realm Forward by Jordan Maxwell.

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We're gonna go ahead jump into today's discussion. Tonight's discussion,

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I'm joined by my friend Paul Wallace. Friend Paul, What's

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up man, Welcome to the podcast. How are you good?

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Speaker 3: A true secret? Thanks so much for having me on

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your show.

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Speaker 1: Interesting topic to bring to the table, Very near and

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dear to my heart for sure, and ready to dive

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into it with you covering your new book Escaping from Eden.

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Does Genesis teach that the human race was created by

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God or engineered by ets?

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Speaker 2: Very intriguing, Yeah, I can see that would be close

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to your heart. With Jordan Maxwell providing your endorsement on

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your book there, that's fantastic. Yeah.

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Speaker 1: I think he's the one who opened the door for

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this talk for me, and it's right up my alley.

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I really appreciate his experiences and his stories really that

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he brought to the table, and you know, even you know,

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diving into some Assichen's work and for me, I started

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with that kind of stuff and then you know, as

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you know, there wasn't a lot of Christian Christianity talk

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talking about the eloheme or being seated or anything to

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do with the angels coming here and dealing with mankind.

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But that kind of opened up the door for me

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to look into much later the Divine Council theory with

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doctor Michael Heiser and both of those who are like

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headbutting each other sitching is wrong that doctor Heiser had

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that website and stuff. They kind of kindterract one another.

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I found my truth in the midst of all the

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studying to be right in the middle of Sitchen and

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doctor Heiser. So they're going to get your opinion on

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some of that stuff too.

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Speaker 2: So well, it's funny because I when I started out

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on the path that led to escaping from Aiden, I

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actually hadn't heard of Zechariah Sitschi, or Michael Heiser, wow

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and or Jordan Maxwell. I didn't know any of these names.

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My way in was really from the Bible. My background

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is in Christian ministry.

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Speaker 3: I was a a church.

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Speaker 2: Planter for many years and a church doctor for many years.

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I worked as a theological educator for Pentecostal churches in

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the UK and Australia, served as an archdeacon out here

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in Australia, and in all that time I was working

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with the Bible. I was training pastors to interpret the Bible.

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And it was really out of that work that I

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found myself on a journey that really got unlocked by

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some translation questions they were that was the doorway down

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this rabbit hole that led to escaping from Eden into

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these what are controversial conclusions in sort of faith circles.

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And as I was doing the research, I started coming

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across Zechariacian, Michael Heiser, Marabininho and I thought, oh goodness, so.

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Speaker 3: I'm not the first person, I thought to have these

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things thoughts, and what do I do?

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Speaker 2: Should I quickly read up on all these guys And

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at that point I thought, no, I'm not going to

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do that, because I'm on a path here of working

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out for myself from a theological start point, what's going

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on in Genesis, what's going on in the Bible, what

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is the correct way to interpret all the.

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Speaker 3: Language we have here? I really need to follow the

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integrity of my own thoughts.

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Speaker 2: And then once I've sort of drawn some conclusions, then

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I can look around and see does anyone else agree

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with me? And at that point I found yes, I'm

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not the first person to tread this territory. And I

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think I'm glad I made that decision because now I

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think there's more significance.

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Speaker 3: In the overlap.

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Speaker 2: You know, when you go to Michael Heiser, he made

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his own journey, sitution made his own journey and then

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when you find an overlap, there's a significance too, And.

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Speaker 3: So that that's why I made that choice. I still

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got a lot of.

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Speaker 2: Reading to catch up on, but it really is that

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journey through Genesis and a work of translation that led

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me to the conclusion that many of the stories that

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our religions have curated as stories about God are really

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memories of our ancestors contact with other species colonizing planet

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Earth in the distant past.

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Speaker 1: What year was this stuff taking place for you where

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you started to kind of open up to this broader

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understanding and started to do a little bit more research.

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What year was it?

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Speaker 2: Well, it's I could put a number of different start

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points on, but I think a really significant seed was

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sown when I was eleven years old, because that's when

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I encountered.

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Speaker 3: The work of Eric von Danakin.

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Speaker 2: My mum and dad introduced me to actually at a

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dinner party. They were discussing his work. Charits of the

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Gods was charting at that time. It had been out

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for about ten years by that point, but there'd been

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a movie and it was being talked about on the TV,

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and so they introduced me to his work, and my

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ears pricked up because I already felt dissatisfied with the

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explanations I was hearing of where we came from. It

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seemed to me there was a real gap in our

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ability to explain ourselves as a conscious, intelligent, technological species.

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I found that religion was a little bit lazy, and

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in the answer, oh, well, God made us with God's

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special creation, that fell short, and explaining how come we're animals?

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Then how come we're so obviously one of the animals

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should how does that work? And all this commonality that

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we have with other animal species not quite explained there.

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And then the scientific explanation also fell short, because the

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only thing that puts us at the top of the

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tree on this planet is consciousness, intelligence, and technology, and.

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Speaker 3: Science couldn't quite say where that came from. There was

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a gap.

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Speaker 2: Eric von Danakin said that an external intervention made sense

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of that gap.

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Speaker 3: That was his thesis, and that got.

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Speaker 2: Me going, so that from the age of eleven that

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was in the back of my mind, and the question

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was there. And then I guess the next really significant

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thing that happened in terms of a moment was two

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thousand and nine, when the most conservative pope in my

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lifetime Now I'm not a Catholic. I don't follow the popes,

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but I couldn't help noticing that the most conservative pope

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in my lifetime had called on the Pontifical Academy of

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Sciences to hold a colloquium, which was a symposium of

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top theologians and scholars to talk about the theological implications

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of contact with other species. And then his spokespeople came

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out and met the press, and they to give them credit,

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it made a lot of it. There was a year

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lead into the event, and then there was a lot

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of meeting the press, and they were saying, very loud

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and clear, we need to be ready, not just to

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embrace the idea of a populated universe, but to be

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ready to embrace a brother or sister alia. And they

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weren't talking about discovering moss on a moon of Mars.

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They were talking about intelligent, technological alien species turning up

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and the urgency with which that happened. And this phrase

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that kept getting used, we should be ready sooner than

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anyone anticipates to embrace a brother or sister alien got

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me thinking, what do they know? Because it looks like

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they're preparing us for some disclosure. It looked like they

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were expecting another authority to disclose that we're in contact,

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and then they could say, Oh, don't worry, everybody, Remember

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we covered this. It doesn't change anything. It just gives

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us a bigger picture of God. And that caught my attention,

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and a gauntlet was really thrown down by the senior

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astronomer of the Vatican Observatory, Reverend doctor Guy Consolmanno. He said,

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we shouldn't be surprised to encounter intelligent alien brothers and sisters.

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He said, because they're in the Bible. They're in the

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Old Testament and the New Testament. And when that happened,

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I thought, I've really got to look into that, because

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how could I have missed that. You know, I've been

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for fifteen years, I've been training passes in how to

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interpret the Bible. Could I really have missed something as

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glaring as aliens in the Bible.

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Speaker 3: And so from that moment, I thought, I've got to

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drill down into this. And it wasn't until.

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Speaker 2: Two thousand and seventeen really that that process of research

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accelerated and I realized I was in the process of

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writing my next book, and I realized what direction it

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was going in, and the moment I sat down and

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asked the translation questions, why is this funny word earlier

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him a plural word? That was the red pill. The

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word Lahim often gets translated as God, but.

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Speaker 3: It's a plural word. And so the moment I.

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Speaker 2: Addressed that question and said, well, what happens if we

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read that in the plural, what happens to the stories? Well,

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the change that happens changed my world, and that was

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the beginning of the story of escaping from Eden.

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Speaker 1: Well, I'm gonna save you a lot of time, brother,

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because when the word Elohim is used, it means father,

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son and holy Spirit. Yes, I'm kidding. You've heard that.

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Speaker 3: I know you're kidding. I know you're kidding. And I

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have heard that from people.

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Speaker 2: Because, of course, the first time people are confronted with

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this information, an initial reaction from a person of faith

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can be well, that can't be right because it disagrees

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with conclusions I've already drawn. And yes, they say, well,

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there's the plural. It must mean father, son and holy Spirit.

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The problem with that is that these Elohim conflict with

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one another, They go to war against one another. Some

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of the Elohim want human beings upgraded and intelligent and conscious.

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Others of the Elohim want the humans so unintelligent that

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we don't even know.

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Speaker 3: We're naked, and they go to war.

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Speaker 2: The Father Son and Holy Spirit don't go to war.

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The Elohim make mistakes, they make absurd mistakes. They fail

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to anticipate things that the reader can see from the

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get go, so it just doesn't.

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Speaker 3: Have any wheels.

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Speaker 2: The argument that Elohim is Father Son and Holy Spirit,

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it means if you just look at the root meaning

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powerful ones. And the thing that convinced me that that

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was the right reading of that word is that the

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way the stories change when you read the God's stories

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in Genesis and further into the Bible, as stories are

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the powerful ones, they flip and suddenly line up in

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parallel with the Sumerian, Babylonian, Arcadian, and Assyrian stories carried

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on the ancient uniform tablets. It becomes apparent very quickly

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that the Bible stories are summary versions of the stories

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of the sky people in the Mesopotamian canon.

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Speaker 3: And once you've.

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Speaker 2: Seen that parallel, you can't go back to seeing it

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the old way. Now we didn't know this until the

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eighteen hundreds, because we couldn't translate the Mesopotamian stories until

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the eighteen hundreds. Eighteen thirty five was when we found

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the translation key. And so unfortunately, the wheels of faith,

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communities and theological change can grind very slow, and so

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there are lots of people in the churches who are

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unaware of these parallels, unaware of these source documents, unaware

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that the editors of the Bibles they're reading mostly believe

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that the Biblical text are based on stories of sky

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people in the Mesopotamian.

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Speaker 1: Stories, which is every creation story almost right, Yes.

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Speaker 3: It is, that's right.

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Speaker 2: You can go to almost any culture around the world

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and you will find parallels with these stories. And as

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I started researching escaping from Eden, that was the evidence

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that for me built up and up and up that

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there is a memory of what happened, of where we

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came from, who we were in contact with, and different

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cultures have found different ways of curating the same basic story,

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the same memories, memories of the same traumas that our

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ancestors experienced, and memories of some of the same details

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about those who came modified our ancestors and governed over us.

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Speaker 1: I got so many questions for you, and I can

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we could just keep going, but I want to. I

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want to paint the picture for the for the person like,

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who's the first time hearing this? And we're well studied

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in this stuff, but the person who this is the

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first time hearing this? Going back to Genesis in a

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garden of Eden and the actual title of the book

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like Escaping Eating Eden? Who were our creators? Then? If

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it wasn't God, what are you saying that aliens created us?

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Like and put humans here? What are you actually saying

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moving forward?

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Speaker 2: Yeah, it's a very layered story. There are many places

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you could start. But if we start in Genesis one,

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what's very interesting that's happening there, and it happens in

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other mythologies and ancestral narratives around the world, is we've

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got something that looks like a creation story, and everybody's

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familiar with the Let there be light moment, and then

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we have the sun and the moon and the stars,

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and then the planet gets made and improved and life

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on Earth has developed.

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Speaker 3: Just go back and read that again.

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Speaker 2: Because before the first word of creation is spoken, the

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planet already exists. So before light, before sun moon, stars.

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Planet Earth already exists flooded and shrouded in darkness, and

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many of the ancient narratives begin that way, with a

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devastated planet Earth and then somebody turning up to rehabilitate it.

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So Genesis follows that pattern. Many of the stories begin

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with the separation of the waters, the clearing of the sky,

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so all of a sudden we can see the sun

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again and the moon and the stars, and then the

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waters are separated in the salt water fresh water, land

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is cleared. You can hear this in Mesoamerican, African Genesis,

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Mesopotamian stories. They all have these same themes and these

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Zulu as well. That's right, and really interesting details about

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the land being cleared by water of wind. Well, that's

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in Genesis because what happens is the powerful ones turn

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up in a Rua, a word that often gets translated

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as spirit, but a bit of translation work reveals that's

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a craft. It's a craft that hovers over the waters,

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and that's where they begin their work. Rua gets used

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further in the Bible. It's in Ezekiel. It's in the

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stories of Moses, and Ezekiel gives us great detail on

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what a rua looked like, what color it was, It

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was silver, It had a glass like canopy, and he

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describes the wheels of the rua in such detail that

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NASA has a patent on those wheels and uses them

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on some of its craft on Mars.

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Speaker 3: So what you've got is.

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Speaker 2: Beings arriving in technology who then do work on the planet.

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And these memorializations represent the fact that this is an

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eyewitness account of our that our ancestors have curated. So

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they were already here in some shape or form. And

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what those who arrived in these stories do is not

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create our ancestors, but modify them, and that's how the

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story goes. So where life originated? I now hold the

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view that Francis crickheld, the co discoverer of DNA. He

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believed that the genetic coding for conscious intelligent life landed

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on the planet because it's been seeded through at least

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this part of the cosmos. The Zulu have a wonderful

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story of that, and that theory is called panspermia, and

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a lot of very serious credential scientists hold that view.

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The European Space Agency has spent more than eight billion

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dollars testing the theory by sending probes up onto comets,

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so the genetic coding arrives whenever it lands on a

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hospitable planet, it will result ultimately in the conto life.

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And then the stories of our mythologies seemed to cut

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in when some neighbors appear probably the result of the

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same pan spermia, the same seeding, and then modify what

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they find here, and the story suggests that they found

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something along the lines of a primate and modified the

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primates into us. If you read the meso American version

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of the story in the Popol Vu, it's very specific

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that apes and us share a common ancestor, and that

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apes and us were part of the same experimentation that

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was performed by these visitors.

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Speaker 3: So that may be a bit of a paradigm shift.

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Speaker 2: It certainly was for me reading that, But it caught

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my attention that centuries before Darwin, the ancient Mayan culture

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had made this connection. Weren't saying that we were descended

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from apes, but saying that we both were descended from

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a shared ancestor.

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Speaker 3: And that's what science is telling us today. In DNA research, a.

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Speaker 1: Lot more questions to be clear that there's some people

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even in Chat who are saying ANONARCHI, is this the

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same thing as the Annaki or the Elohem? Is this

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the same thing or is it a little bit different? Now,

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I've always thought them a little bit different in my mind.

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But would you say that this would be the same thing.

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Speaker 2: Yes, the stories that people know are the Anonarchy stories.

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They are the stories from the Sumerian canon. In Escaping

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from Eden, I refer to them as sky people because

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the glyph that's used, the little kiniform marking that's used

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on the tablets to indicate these beings simply indicates the sky,

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and the flow of the story tells you that they

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are people or beings who've come from the sky. And yes,

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those are the Anonarchy narratives.

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Speaker 1: Most stories of the Anonaki painting to be like some

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type of bad guys, like these rulers that created humans

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to mine gold is kind of the narrative that comes

359
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along with that word. Would this be similar to the

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Elohem in our story?

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Speaker 3: I think that is part of the story.

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Speaker 2: And yes, the mining gold connection is there in Genesis

363
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as well. It's very easy to miss, but if you

364
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read the Eden story in Genesis, we're told for some

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reason we're told the location of Eden, where the humans

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are safe in this enclosed zone, and then we're also

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told that it's conveniently handy for some key mineral deposits. Well,

368
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who on Earth needs to know that Adam and Eve,

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in their blissful innocence in the garden of Eden, don't

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need to know about key mineral deposits.

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Speaker 3: Do they?

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Speaker 2: But there is another phrase in Genesis that says that

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the powerful ones put the humans to work. And you

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put those two together, and there's a little hint that

375
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that work wasn't like gardening. And yes, I think there's

376
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real evidence for ancient ancient gold mining in southern Africa

377
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that appears to be a couple of one hundred thousand

378
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years old. Now science says that our ancestors were here

379
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at that time, looking pretty much as we do today,

380
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but not quite as smart. Not smart enough to farm

381
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and build cities, but smart enough to work in someone

382
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else's mine.

383
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Speaker 3: So, yes, those stories do join up.

384
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Speaker 2: But I think you see the word an anarchy or

385
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sky people, it's interesting because it doesn't necessarily tell you

386
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that we're talking about a single demographic ad anarchy. Some

387
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people have suggested it would be helpful for us simply

388
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to translate that as astronaut, because that's what we're looking at,

389
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people who've come here from somewhere else, people who've come

390
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from the heavens. And you don't have to get far

391
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into the Mesopotamian stories or into the Genesis story before

392
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you realize there are factions and there's conflict, and you

393
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may have a number of et species bumping up against

394
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each other. And by the time you get to the

395
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stories of the Sky Council or Heavenly Council, which exists

396
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in ancestral memory all around the world, and it's there

397
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in the Bible too, it's very clear you've got very

398
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different demographics. You've got energy based beings, arconic being arconic beings,

399
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and then you've got physical visitors as well, all sitting

400
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in council conflicting with one another over the management of

401
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Project Earth and Project Humanity. And there are other conflicts

402
00:23:44,400 --> 00:23:47,839
too around hybridization in Genesis six that suggest you've got

403
00:23:47,839 --> 00:23:51,359
a number of different populations, some who may be here

404
00:23:51,440 --> 00:23:55,519
purely for the gold, others because of other things to

405
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do with the planet. Others may be for things to

406
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do with us, And that part of why there is

407
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this conflict rolling on in the background in a distant

408
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past and maybe even today.

409
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Speaker 1: As this conversation with would scare some some people. This

410
00:24:12,680 --> 00:24:14,319
is the first time they're hearing some talk like this

411
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about the Bible, about the creation stories and and and

412
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I right when I go to say this, I'm reading

413
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the chat, they say, what about Jesus? I want to interrupt.

414
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And I want to interject because what sets you apart

415
00:24:27,279 --> 00:24:30,720
from most people who talk about the Annaki in Genesis

416
00:24:30,759 --> 00:24:33,960
six in this type of way as someone who vouches

417
00:24:34,079 --> 00:24:37,920
for these stories. Right, You're a Christian. You are a believer.

418
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And that's one of the main reasons why I was

419
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excited to have you on. You weren't someone trying to

420
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debunk the Bible, disprove Jesus never existed and was a

421
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copy and these kind of things. You're actually a born

422
00:24:51,960 --> 00:24:57,279
again believer. So that's I think that's very interesting to note.

423
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And uh, and you know, so people know where you

424
00:25:00,160 --> 00:25:02,400
coming from, that you have a faith in the Bible,

425
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in Christ and in God in those things.

426
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Speaker 3: Yeah, that's right.

427
00:25:07,240 --> 00:25:10,279
Speaker 2: My agenda is not to debunk the Bible. It's to

428
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understand the Bible. And I It's funny because I would

429
00:25:16,240 --> 00:25:19,640
agree with a lot of what debunkers might have to say.

430
00:25:19,920 --> 00:25:23,640
But my agenda is not to deconstruct or destroy, but

431
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really to understand and all my life as a preacher,

432
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that was my approach.

433
00:25:29,359 --> 00:25:31,200
Speaker 3: I want to know what does the text really say,

434
00:25:31,240 --> 00:25:33,440
where did that text come from, who.

435
00:25:33,240 --> 00:25:35,920
Speaker 2: Wrote that, why does it say that? And I'm really

436
00:25:35,960 --> 00:25:38,839
just trying to get to the bottom of things. It's

437
00:25:38,880 --> 00:25:42,279
an obvious question to ask what about Jesus, because there's

438
00:25:42,279 --> 00:25:48,480
no question that this investigation has refrained my understanding of God,

439
00:25:48,839 --> 00:25:53,799
refrained my understanding of Jesus. I still am a person

440
00:25:53,880 --> 00:25:57,839
who likes Jesus. I find it very credible. I like

441
00:25:57,920 --> 00:25:58,559
his teaching.

442
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Speaker 3: I seek to live my life is teaching.

443
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Speaker 2: But I could see that we have framed our understanding

444
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of Jesus very badly, and it flows from the translation

445
00:26:10,480 --> 00:26:12,720
problems in the Old Testament.

446
00:26:12,839 --> 00:26:14,359
Speaker 3: Right at the beginning of Christianity.

447
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Speaker 2: There is a big debate over whether Christianity should reindorse

448
00:26:19,599 --> 00:26:23,200
the Hebrew scriptures, a big debate over whether they should

449
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be glued on to the teachings of Jesus to make

450
00:26:25,920 --> 00:26:29,359
a Bible of Old Testament plus New Testament and there

451
00:26:29,359 --> 00:26:32,440
were some really significant church fathers right at the beginning

452
00:26:33,599 --> 00:26:38,559
saying no, don't do that, because we don't endorse the

453
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sixth century BCE edit of those books that turned the

454
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because there are distortions in it, and the distortions of

455
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these what was happening in that editing, And there's a

456
00:26:52,480 --> 00:26:56,000
very broad scholarly consensus that this editing happened in the

457
00:26:56,039 --> 00:26:59,680
sixth century BCE to harmonize it, to make it a

458
00:26:59,680 --> 00:27:03,559
book that taught a single theology. There is only one God,

459
00:27:03,640 --> 00:27:07,119
there is only one source of all things. Well, that's great,

460
00:27:07,359 --> 00:27:10,759
and I agree with that, but that led them to

461
00:27:10,799 --> 00:27:16,039
try and airbrush out of the old old stories any

462
00:27:16,079 --> 00:27:19,839
other kinds of higher beings, airbrush out what looked like

463
00:27:19,920 --> 00:27:23,400
too many gods, and airbrush out what was actually the

464
00:27:23,480 --> 00:27:28,000
memory of et contact. And they air brushed it out

465
00:27:28,039 --> 00:27:31,880
by translating Elohim in some texts where they're doing wicked

466
00:27:31,920 --> 00:27:36,920
things as or they're on the wrong side, as demon,

467
00:27:37,279 --> 00:27:41,480
false god chieftain, and then in text where Elohim is

468
00:27:41,519 --> 00:27:43,680
clearly in charge, they're translated as God.

469
00:27:44,519 --> 00:27:46,640
Speaker 3: The problem with that is that you end up.

470
00:27:46,880 --> 00:27:51,000
Speaker 2: With God doing abominable things, and you end up with

471
00:27:51,039 --> 00:27:53,240
a God who cannot be morally questioned.

472
00:27:53,279 --> 00:27:54,000
Speaker 3: You end up with a.

473
00:27:53,920 --> 00:27:58,000
Speaker 2: God who who will pronounce the death penalty for eating

474
00:27:58,039 --> 00:28:01,680
an apple, or genocide people because he's decided he doesn't

475
00:28:01,759 --> 00:28:04,759
like them anymore, or bomb the human race back into

476
00:28:04,799 --> 00:28:07,880
an animal state because they've built a building that's too tall,

477
00:28:08,559 --> 00:28:11,279
or tell a man to kill his only son and

478
00:28:11,319 --> 00:28:13,640
then only tell him at the last second not to

479
00:28:13,640 --> 00:28:16,920
do it after all. These are the distortions that arise

480
00:28:17,119 --> 00:28:21,079
when we translate Elohim as God, and it's a total distortion.

481
00:28:21,839 --> 00:28:25,039
These church fathers didn't want to accept that because it

482
00:28:25,119 --> 00:28:29,519
makes God a monster, and then that monster is supposed

483
00:28:29,559 --> 00:28:33,200
to be the God that Jesus reveals. It's a total mismatch.

484
00:28:33,720 --> 00:28:38,359
And I think actually anyone who's got a regard for

485
00:28:38,440 --> 00:28:43,640
the teachings of Jesus will have huge questions already about

486
00:28:43,640 --> 00:28:46,440
these ancient texts, because if Jesus is showing us what

487
00:28:46,519 --> 00:28:54,160
God is like, then he can't be this unforgiving, genociding, unpredictable, punitive,

488
00:28:54,599 --> 00:28:58,200
horrible being that seems to be revealed in the stories

489
00:28:58,440 --> 00:29:01,480
as we have them translated. So for me, Jesus is

490
00:29:01,480 --> 00:29:03,759
actually still a real anchor point for me because I

491
00:29:03,799 --> 00:29:07,480
love his teaching, but I think we need to reframe him,

492
00:29:08,440 --> 00:29:11,279
get rid of the old framing of those old stories,

493
00:29:11,319 --> 00:29:16,960
and then also understand how Empire hijack Christianity using that

494
00:29:17,119 --> 00:29:22,920
angry God image to turn Christianity into obedience versus sin,

495
00:29:23,799 --> 00:29:29,559
worship versus idolatry, heaven versus hell. I think these are

496
00:29:29,599 --> 00:29:34,519
all narratives designed to control and minimize human beings, and

497
00:29:34,599 --> 00:29:37,559
the Empire thought we can work with that kind of Christianity,

498
00:29:38,240 --> 00:29:39,599
and indeed they did.

499
00:29:41,640 --> 00:29:43,880
Speaker 1: Going back to Genesis in the Old Testament, and we

500
00:29:43,960 --> 00:29:49,200
have the L or the eloheme the elo, and there's

501
00:29:49,279 --> 00:29:54,359
different I guess races, different types of angels in different

502
00:29:54,400 --> 00:29:58,200
rankings and things like that. Where is God in this?

503
00:29:58,279 --> 00:30:00,559
Because a lot of times we read, you know, in

504
00:30:00,599 --> 00:30:02,960
the English, we just get God, and we get God.

505
00:30:03,079 --> 00:30:06,559
For when we're talking about ghosts in some places, we

506
00:30:06,599 --> 00:30:09,680
get God. If they're talking about a zazel in some

507
00:30:09,720 --> 00:30:13,160
cases like astrooth is a God, like we're getting it

508
00:30:13,240 --> 00:30:16,359
says God did this. Sometimes it's a capital G, sometimes

509
00:30:16,359 --> 00:30:18,680
it's a small G, and you're supposed to know who

510
00:30:18,720 --> 00:30:22,839
it is. But as far as the L and then

511
00:30:22,920 --> 00:30:26,119
what we know to be like the all mighty, all

512
00:30:26,200 --> 00:30:30,359
knowing God. Some would even say that that's not Yahweh,

513
00:30:30,359 --> 00:30:33,799
that it's something even beyond Yahweh, like Yahweh was another

514
00:30:34,680 --> 00:30:39,039
l himself or a creator God that was over, you know,

515
00:30:39,119 --> 00:30:42,400
the land. So where where does like the God fit

516
00:30:42,519 --> 00:30:45,759
in in the midst of smaller gods in the song

517
00:30:45,839 --> 00:30:48,039
and dance of the scriptures?

518
00:30:48,039 --> 00:30:51,799
Speaker 2: Sure well, the Apostle Paul did us a great service

519
00:30:51,880 --> 00:30:57,599
when he defined God in his wonderful sermon that he

520
00:30:57,720 --> 00:31:01,640
preached in Athens, and it's recorded in Acts seventeen.

521
00:31:02,039 --> 00:31:05,960
Speaker 3: He described God as the source of the universe.

522
00:31:07,559 --> 00:31:10,599
Speaker 2: So that's what I mean when I use the word God,

523
00:31:10,799 --> 00:31:14,440
and I don't use the word God for anything else

524
00:31:15,079 --> 00:31:18,680
in the universe. I mean the source. The Apostle Poor

525
00:31:18,759 --> 00:31:24,440
meant the same. And Maral Billino, who is a very

526
00:31:24,519 --> 00:31:30,640
eminent Bible translator. He worked on Vatican Approved into linear Bibles,

527
00:31:30,680 --> 00:31:33,079
where the translation has to be very, very literal.

528
00:31:33,960 --> 00:31:34,920
Speaker 3: His view is.

529
00:31:34,839 --> 00:31:39,839
Speaker 2: That God, the Source, doesn't make any appearance in the

530
00:31:39,880 --> 00:31:45,759
Old Testament at all, that it's all stories about powerful ones,

531
00:31:45,839 --> 00:31:47,480
about extraterrestrials.

532
00:31:48,960 --> 00:31:51,920
Speaker 3: My view is very close to his view.

533
00:31:53,079 --> 00:31:56,480
Speaker 2: If you read the Yahweh stories, what I would say,

534
00:31:56,559 --> 00:32:01,240
is this that wherever we find Yahweh appearing as an

535
00:32:01,279 --> 00:32:06,119
active character in the texts, we are looking at an Elahim.

536
00:32:06,440 --> 00:32:09,920
We're looking at a powerful one. Yahweh refers to himself

537
00:32:09,960 --> 00:32:13,559
as a powerful one. Yahweh is referred to as a

538
00:32:13,599 --> 00:32:17,359
powerful one in the Ten Commandments. You shall have no

539
00:32:17,599 --> 00:32:22,839
other powerful ones, worship only Yahweh, Joshua says, reject the

540
00:32:22,920 --> 00:32:26,720
powerful ones that Abraham and Sarah and your ancestors served

541
00:32:26,799 --> 00:32:29,440
on the other side of the river, and serve only Yahweh.

542
00:32:30,160 --> 00:32:35,160
Yahweh gets really teed off, apparently, when a king who's

543
00:32:35,160 --> 00:32:37,759
broken his back wants to know if he's going to live,

544
00:32:38,240 --> 00:32:40,599
and he sends his servants to try and get a

545
00:32:40,599 --> 00:32:43,240
prognosis from the powerful one of Ekron.

546
00:32:44,400 --> 00:32:46,599
Speaker 3: You know, a neighboring place with foreigners.

547
00:32:46,160 --> 00:32:49,079
Speaker 2: Living in it, and Yahweh says, is there no Elahim

548
00:32:49,119 --> 00:32:52,240
here that you could talk to, pointing to himself. So

549
00:32:52,480 --> 00:32:56,559
there's a proof text that Yahweh is an Elahim, And

550
00:32:56,640 --> 00:32:58,960
in all the texts where he is an active character,

551
00:32:59,079 --> 00:33:02,559
we're looking at a for one. My view is a

552
00:33:02,559 --> 00:33:05,720
little different to Marvels because I believe by the time

553
00:33:05,759 --> 00:33:08,240
you get to the end of the Old Testament and

554
00:33:08,359 --> 00:33:11,839
listen to some of the prophets. I think you're beginning

555
00:33:11,880 --> 00:33:15,680
to hear a vision of God the Source, like Jesus

556
00:33:15,680 --> 00:33:19,359
talked about, like the apostle Paul talked about a source

557
00:33:19,440 --> 00:33:23,400
of only one God, God the Source. And when they

558
00:33:23,680 --> 00:33:28,599
edited the Old Testament the Hebrew Scriptures, that was the

559
00:33:28,680 --> 00:33:32,079
view they were trying to paste across the old stories.

560
00:33:32,519 --> 00:33:36,799
So hats off for that, but hats on again because

561
00:33:36,839 --> 00:33:42,799
they obscured the extraterrestrial stories that their ancestors had curated

562
00:33:42,960 --> 00:33:44,240
for us to know about.

563
00:33:45,240 --> 00:33:48,039
Speaker 1: So when we read the Psalms and we hear about,

564
00:33:48,160 --> 00:33:52,119
you know, King David and a different psalmists say praise

565
00:33:52,200 --> 00:33:55,200
him with the timbrel, praise him all you people you

566
00:33:55,240 --> 00:33:58,799
know in these different you know how marvelous as are God,

567
00:33:58,799 --> 00:34:02,480
who created the heaven in who you know? We read

568
00:34:02,519 --> 00:34:05,480
tough about in job how we created the stars and

569
00:34:05,519 --> 00:34:08,280
it can ban back to you know, Oriyan and the

570
00:34:08,280 --> 00:34:11,559
plads and things like that. Is that talking about the

571
00:34:11,800 --> 00:34:15,599
essence of God, the spirit of God behind everything or

572
00:34:16,480 --> 00:34:20,119
are they talking about Yahweh and some of the other

573
00:34:20,199 --> 00:34:21,079
creator gods.

574
00:34:22,519 --> 00:34:23,920
Speaker 3: That's a great question.

575
00:34:24,800 --> 00:34:29,079
Speaker 2: I think David and the other psalmists are talking about both,

576
00:34:29,880 --> 00:34:34,760
and I think the ideas are really fused and confused

577
00:34:36,239 --> 00:34:38,599
in those psalms and songs.

578
00:34:39,760 --> 00:34:42,360
Speaker 3: It's unmistakable that there is a cosmic vision.

579
00:34:42,119 --> 00:34:44,719
Speaker 2: Of God in some of those psalms, But some of

580
00:34:44,719 --> 00:34:48,960
the psalms are very rooted in the history of warfare

581
00:34:49,039 --> 00:34:52,599
between Yahweh and the other Elahim. So I think you've

582
00:34:52,639 --> 00:34:57,519
got both threads. That's what makes it such a fascinating topic.

583
00:34:58,360 --> 00:35:02,400
Speaker 1: Are now Like when you get into like a lot

584
00:35:02,440 --> 00:35:05,280
of the Hindu traditions and stuff like that, you kind

585
00:35:05,280 --> 00:35:09,920
of get this, all of these gods are emanations of

586
00:35:09,960 --> 00:35:12,639
the one, Like they're just different, Like this is a

587
00:35:12,639 --> 00:35:15,559
worrying aspect of a God, this is the loving aspect

588
00:35:15,599 --> 00:35:18,840
of a God. Almost. We kind of have something similar

589
00:35:18,880 --> 00:35:23,119
like that in the Catholic Faith with the different not popes,

590
00:35:23,159 --> 00:35:25,400
but the different saints. This is the Saint of virtue,

591
00:35:25,440 --> 00:35:27,679
this is the Saint of child bearing. Pray to that

592
00:35:27,760 --> 00:35:31,880
saint to kind of touch this part of God. Would

593
00:35:31,920 --> 00:35:34,960
do you think that that there's something like that in

594
00:35:35,320 --> 00:35:37,760
the Old Testament with the different gods who were an

595
00:35:37,800 --> 00:35:41,039
emanation of the One. For me, I think everything in

596
00:35:41,119 --> 00:35:44,599
every one is an emanation of sort, the good, the bad,

597
00:35:44,639 --> 00:35:47,400
the ugly, all of it. That's how I feel. But

598
00:35:47,519 --> 00:35:49,559
would you, as it paint that picture a little.

599
00:35:49,360 --> 00:35:54,000
Speaker 3: Bit, that's a good question. I haven't asked that question before.

600
00:35:54,119 --> 00:35:58,239
Speaker 2: I absolutely agree with what you're saying, the Truth Seeker.

601
00:35:58,679 --> 00:36:04,199
It's absolutely a foundational view of mine now that everything

602
00:36:04,239 --> 00:36:09,360
in the universe is an emanation, an expression of the source.

603
00:36:10,079 --> 00:36:12,960
And that was the vision of God that the early

604
00:36:13,079 --> 00:36:16,800
Christians had who leant towards Plato because the church fathers

605
00:36:16,800 --> 00:36:20,400
I mentioned before who were saying, let's not glue the

606
00:36:20,440 --> 00:36:24,719
Hebrew scriptures on, were almost saying let's glue Plato on instead.

607
00:36:24,840 --> 00:36:28,599
Because he's got a really full understanding of what's going on.

608
00:36:28,679 --> 00:36:33,039
He's pulled together the Eastern understanding that you just referenced

609
00:36:33,079 --> 00:36:36,800
with the Western. He's got this beautiful cosmic understanding of

610
00:36:37,559 --> 00:36:41,960
what God is, where everything came from, and it frames

611
00:36:42,000 --> 00:36:45,480
the story of Jesus beautifully. I agree with them, and

612
00:36:45,519 --> 00:36:47,199
I think by the time we get to Jesus, we

613
00:36:47,239 --> 00:36:50,000
see that Jesus is really unpacking a lot of that thought.

614
00:36:50,519 --> 00:36:53,880
And so that applies, as you rightly say, not just

615
00:36:53,920 --> 00:36:57,920
to us as being expressions of God, but visitors too.

616
00:36:58,639 --> 00:37:01,679
And yes, there are hints that you've got Elahim in

617
00:37:01,719 --> 00:37:06,000
the Hebrew stories who are the healing ones, and then

618
00:37:06,039 --> 00:37:09,400
you've got others that are the hybridizing ones, and others

619
00:37:09,440 --> 00:37:11,000
that are the warfaring ones.

620
00:37:12,440 --> 00:37:15,920
Speaker 3: So yes, that is really worth probing. I haven't yet

621
00:37:17,360 --> 00:37:18,360
taken the time.

622
00:37:18,199 --> 00:37:22,599
Speaker 2: To really get into the Vaders and the Sanskrit texts.

623
00:37:22,679 --> 00:37:24,880
I would love to do that because I'm beginning to

624
00:37:24,960 --> 00:37:30,760
become aware of aspects of that wisdom that made its

625
00:37:30,760 --> 00:37:34,280
way into Plato, and that made its way into the

626
00:37:34,320 --> 00:37:39,960
writings of not only the Apostles, but there are hints

627
00:37:39,960 --> 00:37:42,800
of it in some of the later Hebrew and Greek

628
00:37:42,840 --> 00:37:46,679
Hebrew writings as well. There's so much in that melting pot.

629
00:37:47,480 --> 00:37:50,559
So ask me again next time we talk, and I'll

630
00:37:50,559 --> 00:37:51,840
know a little bit more about that.

631
00:37:52,239 --> 00:37:56,320
Speaker 1: Yeah, you know, with all this, like I, you know,

632
00:37:56,360 --> 00:37:59,440
take a lot of the Bible literal, but I have

633
00:37:59,559 --> 00:38:02,079
a huge which place in my heart for allegory in

634
00:38:02,119 --> 00:38:05,960
the Old Testament, like the deeper meanings of my spiritual

635
00:38:06,000 --> 00:38:10,760
walk played out the hero's journey with each individual with

636
00:38:10,920 --> 00:38:14,000
King David. When I got to face my giants, will

637
00:38:14,079 --> 00:38:17,079
I sacrifice that thing that's closest to me that I

638
00:38:17,079 --> 00:38:18,960
don't want to let go of, Like will I give

639
00:38:18,960 --> 00:38:21,320
it up only to receive something better? Kind of thing

640
00:38:21,400 --> 00:38:23,840
like in each of these stories, like we see a

641
00:38:23,960 --> 00:38:29,119
mirror as as we're reading this about ourselves. Yes, where

642
00:38:29,159 --> 00:38:33,440
do you stand on the allegory woven within those stories

643
00:38:33,480 --> 00:38:33,880
as well?

644
00:38:34,920 --> 00:38:37,360
Speaker 3: See you have said that beautifully.

645
00:38:37,400 --> 00:38:39,800
Speaker 2: And this is the reason why I'd want to say

646
00:38:39,880 --> 00:38:43,480
very clearly, I'm not a deep bunker of the Bible, because.

647
00:38:43,119 --> 00:38:46,960
Speaker 3: There is phenomenal depth and wisdom in it.

648
00:38:47,559 --> 00:38:52,639
Speaker 2: And even those editors who did that reaction were communicating

649
00:38:52,719 --> 00:38:57,360
something really important and powerful. And what you just said

650
00:38:57,360 --> 00:39:02,039
about the hero's journey, it it relates to how I

651
00:39:02,079 --> 00:39:06,760
wrote Escaping from Eden because the last sort of prompt

652
00:39:07,079 --> 00:39:11,400
telling me, Paul, sit down, drill down into this work

653
00:39:11,400 --> 00:39:14,639
out what's really going on, was when I preached through

654
00:39:15,599 --> 00:39:18,960
the stories of beginnings in Genesis in a church I

655
00:39:19,039 --> 00:39:23,199
was working in Victoria, and I began to think, wait

656
00:39:23,239 --> 00:39:28,119
a minute, this is the hero's journey told over and

657
00:39:28,239 --> 00:39:31,760
over and over again. I started reading the story of

658
00:39:31,800 --> 00:39:35,320
Adam and Eve and I thought, hold on, that's really

659
00:39:35,360 --> 00:39:38,840
the same as Abraham's story. That's really the same as

660
00:39:39,039 --> 00:39:44,320
Noah's story, that's David's story, but that's John the Baptist's story.

661
00:39:44,400 --> 00:39:45,599
Speaker 3: What's going on here?

662
00:39:46,039 --> 00:39:51,920
Speaker 2: And realize that there is this incredible depth of understanding

663
00:39:52,519 --> 00:39:56,199
that has been layered into these stories so that you

664
00:39:56,280 --> 00:40:00,840
can take the story of say Abraham and just read

665
00:40:00,880 --> 00:40:03,360
it in a literal, plain meaning kind of way, and

666
00:40:03,480 --> 00:40:06,119
there'll be information in that. And I love reading it

667
00:40:06,159 --> 00:40:08,760
that way because when I read it that way, there's

668
00:40:08,800 --> 00:40:13,039
an account of close encounters with sky people, a very

669
00:40:13,079 --> 00:40:18,559
significant encounter, but it's been told by a theologian, so

670
00:40:18,599 --> 00:40:21,480
there'll be other theological layers in it as well. And

671
00:40:21,559 --> 00:40:24,719
what you say about the hero's journey, it's so worth probing.

672
00:40:25,039 --> 00:40:27,920
It defines the story of Jesus as well. He's got

673
00:40:28,360 --> 00:40:32,880
like the ultimate hero's journey. So I think that lens

674
00:40:33,199 --> 00:40:36,400
is a really useful one to bring to many many

675
00:40:36,800 --> 00:40:40,000
of our world mythologies, the Bible included.

676
00:40:40,639 --> 00:40:43,000
Speaker 1: And how you kind of mentioned a while ago where

677
00:40:43,000 --> 00:40:46,400
you said that, you know, almost like alluding to if

678
00:40:46,400 --> 00:40:49,760
this world was destroyed and rebuilt, then these stories that

679
00:40:49,800 --> 00:40:52,800
were in our DNA and crafted like they all it

680
00:40:52,880 --> 00:40:56,400
just keeps coming through the lore no matter where there

681
00:40:56,400 --> 00:40:59,519
are these people who have not you know, physically touched

682
00:40:59,559 --> 00:41:01,559
or represent and it, you know, been close to each

683
00:41:01,599 --> 00:41:03,880
other on the Earth, and they all had the same story.

684
00:41:03,679 --> 00:41:06,840
They remember there's a remembering. And I feel the same

685
00:41:06,840 --> 00:41:09,400
way with the hero's journey, like if this place was

686
00:41:09,639 --> 00:41:14,159
destroyed and comes back, these stories of this dying and

687
00:41:14,199 --> 00:41:17,880
being reborn in the triumph and overcoming obstacles, it's in

688
00:41:18,000 --> 00:41:20,679
every movie, it's in Star Wars, it's in the Bible,

689
00:41:21,159 --> 00:41:25,320
and I just feel like there's something powerful about owning

690
00:41:25,360 --> 00:41:28,519
your story and overcoming your fears and overcoming your enemies

691
00:41:28,559 --> 00:41:31,800
and those things, which is from Genesis, the Revelation as

692
00:41:31,800 --> 00:41:36,039
a whole, and then from each profit, minor prophet, you know,

693
00:41:36,440 --> 00:41:39,280
lay person. You know, they all had their own journey

694
00:41:39,280 --> 00:41:41,440
that they went through, and you know, Jesus is like

695
00:41:41,480 --> 00:41:44,159
beckoning us to take up our cross as well, right

696
00:41:44,519 --> 00:41:47,599
because we have our own hero's journey that we must

697
00:41:47,800 --> 00:41:51,159
die and be reborn and choose love, you know, just

698
00:41:51,239 --> 00:41:54,840
like Luke Skywalker and those guys. There were so many

699
00:41:54,880 --> 00:41:58,079
parallels because during my whole awakening and research and study,

700
00:41:58,119 --> 00:42:01,000
I was watching Star Wars for the first time, and

701
00:42:01,039 --> 00:42:04,719
there's so many parallels to the Scriptures that it's uncanny.

702
00:42:05,079 --> 00:42:07,400
One of the things that you bring to the table

703
00:42:07,960 --> 00:42:12,599
reincarnation and channeling and things like that. Listen. I talk

704
00:42:12,639 --> 00:42:14,639
about all that stuff in my book too, because it's

705
00:42:14,679 --> 00:42:18,599
in the Bible. It's in the Bible and people don't

706
00:42:18,599 --> 00:42:21,840
even know it. And when I found this stuff out,

707
00:42:22,000 --> 00:42:24,480
like it was I seen it in Star Wars, like

708
00:42:24,519 --> 00:42:26,800
they have little things of let me teach you to

709
00:42:26,840 --> 00:42:30,280
commune with your teacher who came before you, and Yoda

710
00:42:30,360 --> 00:42:33,639
takes Luke Skywalker and teaches them how to uh well

711
00:42:34,239 --> 00:42:37,559
obi Wan and teaches them how to commune with Qui

712
00:42:37,599 --> 00:42:40,760
gon Jen from behind the grave. And then we read

713
00:42:40,800 --> 00:42:44,079
the scriptures when Jesus was going into deep levels of

714
00:42:44,119 --> 00:42:47,159
prayer upon the mountain, when we kind of got to

715
00:42:47,239 --> 00:42:49,679
follow him at the amount of transfiguration, we got to

716
00:42:49,719 --> 00:42:52,360
see what he was doing, and he had this visitation

717
00:42:52,519 --> 00:42:56,360
where he was meeting with his elders that were teaching

718
00:42:56,440 --> 00:42:58,599
him from beyond the grave, when he would go into

719
00:42:58,719 --> 00:42:59,960
prayer and meditate.

720
00:43:02,480 --> 00:43:03,719
Speaker 3: Yeah, that's powerful.

721
00:43:03,960 --> 00:43:07,800
Speaker 2: And you see, George Lucas is a very interesting case

722
00:43:07,840 --> 00:43:10,480
in point, because not only do you have layers and

723
00:43:10,599 --> 00:43:16,440
layers of ancient mythology being retold in Star Wars. You've

724
00:43:16,480 --> 00:43:21,639
also got information like the Death Star. No one had

725
00:43:21,719 --> 00:43:27,079
seen Iapetus or me Mass, which are the spitting image

726
00:43:27,280 --> 00:43:31,360
of the death Star until oh, when was it the

727
00:43:31,480 --> 00:43:35,039
nineteen eighties. I think there's a little blurry image we

728
00:43:35,119 --> 00:43:38,559
had for the first time, and then two thousand and

729
00:43:38,639 --> 00:43:40,559
four was the first time we could see that the

730
00:43:40,599 --> 00:43:43,039
death Star was the spitting image. So how did George

731
00:43:43,119 --> 00:43:48,639
Lucas have that image in nineteen seventy six. Scriptwriters do

732
00:43:48,840 --> 00:43:54,360
sometimes get fed information that has not yet been released

733
00:43:54,360 --> 00:43:57,679
to the public, and George Lucas may have had some

734
00:43:57,800 --> 00:44:01,960
of that. But I believe that George Lucas has talked

735
00:44:02,079 --> 00:44:07,039
about channeled information going into the mix of Star Wars,

736
00:44:07,119 --> 00:44:10,599
and I believe that, and I actually think that's where

737
00:44:10,599 --> 00:44:12,840
the image of the Death Star came from.

738
00:44:13,320 --> 00:44:15,159
Speaker 3: Channeling is in the Bible.

739
00:44:15,199 --> 00:44:18,679
Speaker 2: You're quite right, and it's one of those little anomalies

740
00:44:18,800 --> 00:44:22,840
that believers skip over when they're reading the Bible because

741
00:44:22,840 --> 00:44:27,000
it's outside of the frame of the orthodox mainstream. But

742
00:44:27,079 --> 00:44:31,000
if you read John's letters and the New Testament, he's

743
00:44:31,000 --> 00:44:35,320
got a little helpful guide to do with channeling and

744
00:44:35,519 --> 00:44:38,039
makes very clear that channeling was part of the early

745
00:44:38,119 --> 00:44:42,719
Christian experience before the Empire narrowed it all down to

746
00:44:42,800 --> 00:44:44,800
this religion of worship and obedience.

747
00:44:45,719 --> 00:44:48,960
Speaker 1: I think that the Bible or inspired writing, is something

748
00:44:49,000 --> 00:44:50,800
we would call auto you know what I'm saying, automatic

749
00:44:50,880 --> 00:44:55,280
writing or channeled writing, where you're getting inspired by the

750
00:44:55,320 --> 00:44:58,800
Holy Spirit or by God. And so I always say

751
00:44:58,920 --> 00:45:01,519
in my stuff, like I channel the heart of God,

752
00:45:01,599 --> 00:45:04,519
the heart of the Father, Like we're channeling his heart.

753
00:45:04,599 --> 00:45:07,000
What would he say to his people to speak to

754
00:45:07,039 --> 00:45:08,920
them in love and to build them up and things

755
00:45:08,960 --> 00:45:12,239
like that, So you know, it's not that far outside

756
00:45:12,239 --> 00:45:14,920
of the realm of understanding, and when you're thinking about

757
00:45:15,079 --> 00:45:17,039
channeling information.

758
00:45:16,719 --> 00:45:18,239
Speaker 3: I believe in that.

759
00:45:18,519 --> 00:45:22,199
Speaker 2: I believe that sometimes when we get into storytelling mode,

760
00:45:22,280 --> 00:45:28,360
we are actually beginning to channel without necessarily realizing that's

761
00:45:28,440 --> 00:45:31,519
what we're doing. And sometimes we tell the truth in

762
00:45:31,559 --> 00:45:33,119
fiction very consciously.

763
00:45:33,639 --> 00:45:34,639
Speaker 3: Sometimes we tell the.

764
00:45:34,559 --> 00:45:37,480
Speaker 2: Truth in fiction without knowing that's what we're doing.

765
00:45:38,519 --> 00:45:40,760
Speaker 1: I don't think that I feel like there's there's not

766
00:45:40,800 --> 00:45:43,639
anything that you can make up and trying to bring

767
00:45:43,679 --> 00:45:45,400
it to the table in fiction that it did not

768
00:45:45,440 --> 00:45:49,960
already exist. Because with that understanding, man, we've seen some

769
00:45:50,079 --> 00:45:53,199
really interesting stuff and I've interviewed people who have had

770
00:45:53,360 --> 00:45:57,320
encounters with any type of entity that you can think of,

771
00:45:57,480 --> 00:45:59,880
you know, and I've had so many encounters myself. But

772
00:46:00,039 --> 00:46:03,199
it's a place of having faith or believing that it's true,

773
00:46:03,599 --> 00:46:07,199
and then it shows itself to you. And so that

774
00:46:07,239 --> 00:46:10,400
the channeling, the angels, the demons, if you believe it

775
00:46:10,440 --> 00:46:14,239
to be true, what happens it shows itself to you.

776
00:46:14,719 --> 00:46:16,519
Speaker 3: Well, that's right, that's right.

777
00:46:16,920 --> 00:46:19,760
Speaker 2: You have to have some kind of a framework to

778
00:46:19,920 --> 00:46:23,760
understand what you're seeing or understand what you're experiencing. And

779
00:46:23,800 --> 00:46:27,960
it's why for me, for instance, when Escaping from Eden

780
00:46:28,000 --> 00:46:32,719
came out earlier this year, I started being contacted weekly

781
00:46:33,039 --> 00:46:36,679
and some weeks every single day by people who had

782
00:46:36,719 --> 00:46:42,920
had anomalous experiences, not necessarily of ETS, but anomalous experiences

783
00:46:42,960 --> 00:46:45,559
that they couldn't talk about and they thought they could

784
00:46:45,559 --> 00:46:48,079
talk to me about it. So they contacted me, and

785
00:46:48,119 --> 00:46:50,559
people began asking me, Paul, have you ever had a

786
00:46:50,599 --> 00:46:56,239
close encounter, you know, with an ET? And early on

787
00:46:56,360 --> 00:46:58,920
my answer was no, I haven't. I know a lot

788
00:46:58,960 --> 00:47:02,159
of people who have. But then my answer started to

789
00:47:02,199 --> 00:47:06,760
shift because as I heard more and more testimony, I realized, wait,

790
00:47:06,840 --> 00:47:09,639
a minute, there was that funny thing that happened to

791
00:47:09,679 --> 00:47:14,119
me back in nineteen eighty five, and then that funny

792
00:47:14,159 --> 00:47:17,079
thing and that funny thing, and I began joining the

793
00:47:17,119 --> 00:47:20,559
dots and realized that I had a number of experiences

794
00:47:21,000 --> 00:47:24,159
that I had never understood because I didn't have the

795
00:47:24,280 --> 00:47:28,280
framework to understand it. I had some experiences that I thought,

796
00:47:28,360 --> 00:47:31,320
I don't understand it. It must have been demonic because

797
00:47:31,320 --> 00:47:33,360
that was one of my boxes. Or I had that

798
00:47:33,440 --> 00:47:36,880
experience I don't understand. It must have been angelic because

799
00:47:36,880 --> 00:47:38,519
that was one of my boxes, Or that must have

800
00:47:38,599 --> 00:47:39,280
been God.

801
00:47:39,599 --> 00:47:41,440
Speaker 3: Now I've got more boxes.

802
00:47:41,519 --> 00:47:44,840
Speaker 2: I realized there are more kinds of entity and reality

803
00:47:45,079 --> 00:47:47,639
and dimensionality to the universe, and I can look back

804
00:47:47,679 --> 00:47:51,960
and say, wow, actually those were ety encounters. I just

805
00:47:51,960 --> 00:47:55,920
didn't have the language for it. So the language we

806
00:47:56,000 --> 00:48:00,440
have in our heads really can shape what we think we'reperiencing.

807
00:48:00,519 --> 00:48:02,400
Speaker 3: And that's one of the reasons I wrote Escaping for

808
00:48:02,559 --> 00:48:03,320
me and to try.

809
00:48:03,199 --> 00:48:08,840
Speaker 2: And break the taboo, to put the language of a

810
00:48:08,880 --> 00:48:12,760
populated universe back on the table so people can begin

811
00:48:12,880 --> 00:48:16,559
and telling their own stories and hearing from others, and

812
00:48:16,599 --> 00:48:19,599
I think that will shift the worldview of many If

813
00:48:19,599 --> 00:48:22,679
we can talk and listen in that open minded way.

814
00:48:24,880 --> 00:48:27,400
Speaker 1: My next question, I think the two kind of kind

815
00:48:27,440 --> 00:48:31,119
of tie together a little bit. But what about shamanic

816
00:48:31,199 --> 00:48:37,239
experiences and so like seeing some of the primitive spirituality

817
00:48:37,760 --> 00:48:40,679
of the Bible which is forgotten, you know, And I

818
00:48:40,719 --> 00:48:43,079
think that we can look at the other cultures and

819
00:48:43,199 --> 00:48:48,000
see some similar things that they're doing, whether it's transcendental meditation,

820
00:48:48,119 --> 00:48:51,199
whether it's fasting, Like there's a bunch of like intense

821
00:48:51,280 --> 00:48:55,719
spirituality that was practiced in the Bible that we look

822
00:48:55,760 --> 00:48:58,119
at it now is primitive. Some of it, I feel

823
00:48:58,159 --> 00:49:00,519
like made it over to the charismatic movements and a

824
00:49:00,599 --> 00:49:05,400
Pentecosta movements, the Quakers and shaking and dancing and shouting

825
00:49:05,400 --> 00:49:08,679
but then getting really still and quiet and allowing God

826
00:49:08,719 --> 00:49:10,800
to speak to you. And there was a lot of

827
00:49:10,840 --> 00:49:16,400
like really deep spirituality that was in the Old Testament

828
00:49:16,440 --> 00:49:18,760
that we look over and forget. Do you have any

829
00:49:18,800 --> 00:49:21,280
of those examples where we would we would call them

830
00:49:21,320 --> 00:49:23,199
shamanic or they would appear to be that way?

831
00:49:24,360 --> 00:49:28,719
Speaker 2: Definitely, And it's so interesting how all this joins up.

832
00:49:29,679 --> 00:49:32,360
First of all, because a lot of shamanic traditions have

833
00:49:32,639 --> 00:49:38,559
language for other dimensional beings, and extraterrestrial beings. There is

834
00:49:38,679 --> 00:49:43,440
shamanism in the Bible. It's it's in a way, you've

835
00:49:43,440 --> 00:49:45,840
got to go looking for it. But you start reading

836
00:49:45,880 --> 00:49:50,239
the stories of the prophets, start looking at what the

837
00:49:50,280 --> 00:49:54,119
instructions were to priests, and you realize that you've got.

838
00:49:54,039 --> 00:49:55,719
Speaker 3: A pattern of shamanism there.

839
00:49:55,760 --> 00:50:05,320
Speaker 2: That there is a use of plants, of smoke, technology, silence, dance, vibration.

840
00:50:07,679 --> 00:50:10,280
It occurs in shamanism around the world, and it is

841
00:50:10,440 --> 00:50:11,440
there in.

842
00:50:11,280 --> 00:50:13,360
Speaker 3: The Hebrew tradition as well.

843
00:50:14,000 --> 00:50:17,679
Speaker 2: What made me make the connection with shamanism was when

844
00:50:17,840 --> 00:50:20,360
I read the pop Paul Vu, which is the Mayan

845
00:50:20,840 --> 00:50:24,840
story of where we all came from. And like many

846
00:50:24,920 --> 00:50:29,960
of the stories of humanity's evolution, their story is that

847
00:50:30,000 --> 00:50:35,719
we were engineered from a primate ancestor and an upgraded, upgraded, upgraded,

848
00:50:36,000 --> 00:50:43,480
until we were US plus US plus precognition, telepathy, remote viewing,

849
00:50:43,800 --> 00:50:48,239
self healing, and the engineers as they're called, and the

850
00:50:48,280 --> 00:50:51,599
Pope or Vu the visitors said, these humans are a

851
00:50:51,639 --> 00:50:55,079
little bit difficult to manage. I mean, how do you

852
00:50:55,440 --> 00:50:59,639
enslave or heard a creature that's got precognition? I mean

853
00:50:59,719 --> 00:51:03,639
you're losing wicket so they decided, we've got to downgrade

854
00:51:03,639 --> 00:51:07,239
these humans, and so they created a vapor that, when

855
00:51:07,280 --> 00:51:12,079
it was sprayed over human populations, damaged our neurological connections

856
00:51:12,119 --> 00:51:15,559
and brought us back down to a three D world

857
00:51:15,639 --> 00:51:21,360
and our five physical senses. What is interesting about that

858
00:51:21,440 --> 00:51:24,320
how it connects with shamanism, is that the same culture

859
00:51:24,360 --> 00:51:28,719
that curated that story of the final downgrade has curated

860
00:51:28,760 --> 00:51:33,719
all kinds of practices to re upgrade our experience. And

861
00:51:33,800 --> 00:51:36,920
so in the Meso American tradition, you've got psycho effective

862
00:51:37,000 --> 00:51:40,199
teas that are designed to do exactly that make us

863
00:51:40,199 --> 00:51:43,280
more conscious, allow us to see beyond the.

864
00:51:43,719 --> 00:51:46,760
Speaker 3: Physical limitation of our locality.

865
00:51:48,000 --> 00:51:50,960
Speaker 2: Psycho effective teas that mean we can interact with other

866
00:51:51,079 --> 00:51:54,599
kinds of being, that we can begin to see ourselves

867
00:51:54,679 --> 00:51:58,800
as a consciousness that precedes this life and follows it.

868
00:51:59,599 --> 00:52:04,320
That of shamanism is very connected with this et narrative.

869
00:52:06,159 --> 00:52:08,239
My ears pricked up when I read that, because I

870
00:52:08,280 --> 00:52:12,960
already knew about this syndrome, a neurological syndrome called acquired

871
00:52:13,039 --> 00:52:17,119
savant syndrome, which is where people have an accident, they

872
00:52:17,159 --> 00:52:20,039
get a brain injury. There's a central nervous system event,

873
00:52:20,559 --> 00:52:24,679
and it actually releases phenomenal skills that they didn't have before,

874
00:52:24,719 --> 00:52:28,440
mathematical skills, a new language they couldn't speak before, musical

875
00:52:28,559 --> 00:52:33,079
artistic ability they didn't have before, very very objective shift

876
00:52:34,159 --> 00:52:35,679
in the upwards direction.

877
00:52:36,119 --> 00:52:37,119
Speaker 3: And it's so strange.

878
00:52:37,119 --> 00:52:40,679
Speaker 2: How can an injury make a human being cleverer? And

879
00:52:40,800 --> 00:52:44,599
the neurologist to study this, Darryl Trefford of Marian University,

880
00:52:44,639 --> 00:52:47,519
has more than seventy cases of this that he's tracked.

881
00:52:48,159 --> 00:52:49,400
Speaker 3: You see, our science.

882
00:52:49,039 --> 00:52:52,079
Speaker 2: Baffles at that, but the mythology of the popol Vu

883
00:52:52,199 --> 00:52:56,840
says that's perfectly understandable. We all have those higher capacities,

884
00:52:57,199 --> 00:53:02,079
but they've been put into the opposition. Shamanism mystical traditions

885
00:53:02,119 --> 00:53:05,880
are all about turning the inhibitors off re upgrading us,

886
00:53:05,920 --> 00:53:09,800
and so you can find psycho effective teas, smoke and smoking, ceremonies,

887
00:53:10,239 --> 00:53:16,239
use of vibration, chanting music, dance control, conscious breathing. These

888
00:53:16,280 --> 00:53:19,639
are elements of shamanism in cultures with no contact with

889
00:53:19,719 --> 00:53:22,840
each other, apparently all around the world, and that is

890
00:53:22,880 --> 00:53:27,159
what they're aiming at, getting us more conscious, more intelligent.

891
00:53:27,039 --> 00:53:28,599
Speaker 3: Better able to self heal.

892
00:53:29,000 --> 00:53:32,719
Speaker 2: And many people who practice those things myself included would

893
00:53:32,760 --> 00:53:37,760
say it does release these abilities. I can say I've

894
00:53:38,039 --> 00:53:45,400
experienced fragments, fragmentary moments of remote viewing, precognition, telepathic connection

895
00:53:46,079 --> 00:53:49,559
through using those mystical and shamanic modalities, and that I

896
00:53:49,599 --> 00:53:52,880
find that really exciting and to begin to honor those

897
00:53:52,920 --> 00:53:56,239
traditions instead of seeing talking about witch doctors and seeing

898
00:53:56,239 --> 00:53:58,960
them as primitive and so on and so forth. No,

899
00:53:59,079 --> 00:54:02,800
they have curated something really really important. If we could

900
00:54:02,840 --> 00:54:05,679
all live more intelligently on this planet, what would that

901
00:54:05,760 --> 00:54:06,159
look like?

902
00:54:08,519 --> 00:54:14,880
Speaker 1: The the evil aliens are wicked rulers or whoever? Why

903
00:54:15,079 --> 00:54:18,400
is this stuff forgotten? Why is this scheduled one substance

904
00:54:18,440 --> 00:54:20,639
that will lock you up forever if they catch you

905
00:54:21,199 --> 00:54:23,559
with any of some of these things that we're talking about,

906
00:54:23,559 --> 00:54:27,519
the plant medicines and shamanic medicines, and and it's forgotten

907
00:54:27,599 --> 00:54:32,960
that their church calls it evil wicked. Who's running the show?

908
00:54:33,599 --> 00:54:37,199
You know? Is there? Are there? I feel like all

909
00:54:37,239 --> 00:54:40,559
sources say the bad guys are are running this thing

910
00:54:40,639 --> 00:54:44,119
at the at the top levels of schooling, of society,

911
00:54:44,199 --> 00:54:48,480
of government, of the pharmaceutical industries, like that these people

912
00:54:48,880 --> 00:54:51,239
do not have our best interest in mind and want

913
00:54:51,239 --> 00:54:54,800
to you're talking about ruling us. They're definitely the ruling

914
00:54:54,960 --> 00:54:58,039
class of what we have. Who are these people? We

915
00:54:58,079 --> 00:55:00,599
call them our presidents, we call them our dict Who

916
00:55:00,679 --> 00:55:03,039
are they?

917
00:55:03,239 --> 00:55:03,480
Speaker 3: Yes?

918
00:55:04,679 --> 00:55:09,199
Speaker 2: I think the more you read world mythologies and ancient

919
00:55:09,280 --> 00:55:13,760
ancestral narratives, the boy you start thinking that these guys

920
00:55:13,760 --> 00:55:18,920
writing about twenty twenty, because the themes really are the same.

921
00:55:19,559 --> 00:55:22,039
If you just go to Genesis, for instance, and you

922
00:55:22,079 --> 00:55:27,719
look at what the Sky Council is debating over. In Genesis,

923
00:55:28,320 --> 00:55:32,519
they're debating over how healthy should the human beings be,

924
00:55:32,639 --> 00:55:36,760
what access should they have to medical cures, how long

925
00:55:36,840 --> 00:55:40,440
lived should they be, how intelligent should they be, how

926
00:55:40,519 --> 00:55:44,440
much access to information? How much awareness and access should

927
00:55:44,440 --> 00:55:48,760
they have to us the powerful ones. These are all

928
00:55:48,880 --> 00:55:51,079
the debates they have, and it seems to me they're

929
00:55:51,079 --> 00:55:55,039
the same debates being had in the twenty first century.

930
00:55:55,760 --> 00:56:00,199
Access to clean and safe drinking water, access to safe food,

931
00:56:00,280 --> 00:56:06,639
access to medication, access to education, access to the truth of.

932
00:56:06,519 --> 00:56:09,280
Speaker 3: What's going on. These are all live issues.

933
00:56:09,360 --> 00:56:12,880
Speaker 2: Is it a coincidence that these are the same live issues.

934
00:56:13,280 --> 00:56:18,599
Genesis suggests that there is this cabal of other species

935
00:56:18,639 --> 00:56:22,920
who all have a stakeholding in Project Earth and Project Humanity,

936
00:56:23,519 --> 00:56:27,199
and they're conflicting over it. Then is that story told

937
00:56:27,239 --> 00:56:30,079
to tell us why things work the way they do today?

938
00:56:30,880 --> 00:56:34,679
And my suspicion is yes, it's a story about now

939
00:56:35,159 --> 00:56:36,480
just as much as then.

940
00:56:37,039 --> 00:56:38,559
Speaker 3: And then there's the question.

941
00:56:38,320 --> 00:56:41,039
Speaker 2: Of, well, how does this relate to the power structures

942
00:56:41,039 --> 00:56:44,760
we can see? Because there's a very interesting moment that

943
00:56:44,880 --> 00:56:48,239
comes if you follow the stories of the Bible, where

944
00:56:48,280 --> 00:56:54,000
you've got the powerful ones seemingly running the show, but

945
00:56:54,079 --> 00:56:57,039
all of a sudden they're not there anymore. You've just

946
00:56:57,079 --> 00:57:00,239
got the priesthoods, you've just got the technology, you've got

947
00:57:00,280 --> 00:57:02,800
the Ark of the Covenant, you've got the Urim and Thummin,

948
00:57:03,239 --> 00:57:06,519
you've got people going and consulting their totems. But where

949
00:57:06,679 --> 00:57:12,000
actually are the powerful ones? And that story anyone who's

950
00:57:12,039 --> 00:57:15,880
watched the original series of Star Trek knows that story

951
00:57:15,920 --> 00:57:18,000
got told a couple of times where it turned out

952
00:57:18,079 --> 00:57:20,119
things were being rung by the priests but the gods

953
00:57:20,119 --> 00:57:25,039
had disappeared. But it raises a really interesting question, the

954
00:57:25,119 --> 00:57:27,840
one you've just asked, who's in charge? Why are these

955
00:57:27,880 --> 00:57:30,679
the issues? And why are they the issues? In twenty

956
00:57:30,760 --> 00:57:35,920
twenty after we've had, you know, revolutions, we've got democracy, we've.

957
00:57:35,760 --> 00:57:36,719
Speaker 3: Got a media.

958
00:57:37,880 --> 00:57:41,480
Speaker 2: Why yeah, clean energy exactly, why is this still an issue?

959
00:57:41,760 --> 00:57:46,280
And you see, clean energy is a really good illustration

960
00:57:46,360 --> 00:57:49,599
of the question. Because Ed Mitchell, the sixth man to

961
00:57:49,639 --> 00:57:54,559
walk on the Moon, as a NASA alumnus, he would

962
00:57:54,599 --> 00:57:58,199
have been bound by layer on layer of official secrets laws,

963
00:57:58,719 --> 00:58:02,039
and yet he was very spoken in championing the cause

964
00:58:02,079 --> 00:58:04,559
of disclosure, and he said one of the things that

965
00:58:04,639 --> 00:58:08,800
motivated him was that the human race should be benefiting

966
00:58:09,280 --> 00:58:13,360
from clean, free energy, which he believed was available through

967
00:58:13,400 --> 00:58:18,039
our technological contact with et species. And that's what he

968
00:58:18,159 --> 00:58:21,239
was allowed to say, So goodness only knows what he

969
00:58:21,320 --> 00:58:23,320
was not allowed to say. Now, if you listen to

970
00:58:23,360 --> 00:58:26,840
him and you come to that conclusion, then you come

971
00:58:26,880 --> 00:58:30,719
back to the question of why is that technology suppressed

972
00:58:30,760 --> 00:58:34,480
and who's suppressing it? Who and by what authority has

973
00:58:34,519 --> 00:58:36,559
made the decision we're not going to have free energy

974
00:58:36,559 --> 00:58:38,480
and we're going to be enslaved to oil companies and

975
00:58:38,519 --> 00:58:41,719
so on and so forth. We see the conflict over

976
00:58:41,760 --> 00:58:44,920
clean energy playing out in our politics, but is the

977
00:58:45,000 --> 00:58:46,599
root of it actually somewhere else?

978
00:58:49,079 --> 00:58:51,440
Speaker 3: You can see it also. I talk about this in

979
00:58:51,519 --> 00:58:53,239
the sequel to Escaping from Eden.

980
00:58:53,599 --> 00:58:57,440
Speaker 2: There is a conflict on planet Earth right now between

981
00:58:57,480 --> 00:59:01,239
two models of farming. There's the tradition model of farming,

982
00:59:01,280 --> 00:59:06,960
which is rotational, natural, organic, sustainable, and then you've got

983
00:59:07,039 --> 00:59:11,519
an industrial model where you have infertile soil and you

984
00:59:11,639 --> 00:59:16,119
need petrochemicals to grow your food, and then you have

985
00:59:16,199 --> 00:59:19,599
to buy patented foods every year to grow them. Those

986
00:59:19,639 --> 00:59:23,559
are two different models of farming, and my studies in

987
00:59:23,719 --> 00:59:27,000
Escaping from Eden and for its sequel suggest to me

988
00:59:27,079 --> 00:59:31,239
that those conflicts originate off planet and in cultures that

989
00:59:32,039 --> 00:59:33,079
came from somewhere else.

990
00:59:35,280 --> 00:59:39,280
Speaker 1: It's interesting. I think these these so called leaders have

991
00:59:39,559 --> 00:59:42,599
you know, malicious intent and feeding us things that our

992
00:59:42,639 --> 00:59:45,199
bodies weren't meant to eat, and they're okay with signing

993
00:59:45,239 --> 00:59:47,440
off one stuff. I mean, it's the list goes on

994
00:59:47,519 --> 00:59:48,280
and on and on.

995
00:59:49,000 --> 00:59:51,400
Speaker 2: Just just not to make it too bleak. As something

996
00:59:51,480 --> 00:59:54,480
I forgot to say though, is worth remembering. On that council,

997
00:59:54,800 --> 00:59:58,079
there's a spectrum. There's a spectrum of beings. There's some

998
00:59:58,400 --> 01:00:02,280
who have no empathy for humanity at all, and there

999
01:00:02,320 --> 01:00:06,000
are others who I believe are here because they are

1000
01:00:06,119 --> 01:00:09,639
concerned for us and they are advocating for us, and

1001
01:00:09,719 --> 01:00:12,880
there's been this strange kind of stability and a stability

1002
01:00:12,880 --> 01:00:16,880
of non disclosure for at least seventy years because there

1003
01:00:17,039 --> 01:00:19,480
is a power balance with a little bit of hope,

1004
01:00:20,119 --> 01:00:24,960
because I think there is a positive eachy presence that's

1005
01:00:25,000 --> 01:00:28,039
involved in the story of humanity right now as well.

1006
01:00:30,360 --> 01:00:32,679
Speaker 1: I mean some people with you know, I mean, how

1007
01:00:32,679 --> 01:00:35,960
do you choose though? Do we vote these these individuals in?

1008
01:00:36,159 --> 01:00:40,719
Surely not the Democratic republic is one good and one bad,

1009
01:00:40,760 --> 01:00:44,280
because the Church will definitely tell you that the Democratic

1010
01:00:44,360 --> 01:00:49,239
Party is the satanic god hating party and the Republican

1011
01:00:49,440 --> 01:00:53,199
is the God fearing you know, keep God in school

1012
01:00:53,280 --> 01:00:57,519
like traditional like they literally see it like that for sure.

1013
01:00:58,719 --> 01:01:02,760
But that's not what we're saying, right, we colect our gods?

1014
01:01:02,840 --> 01:01:06,119
Speaker 3: Right, No, we can't.

1015
01:01:06,239 --> 01:01:09,079
Speaker 2: And I think one of the things that.

1016
01:01:11,239 --> 01:01:12,840
Speaker 3: When people get this.

1017
01:01:14,199 --> 01:01:18,280
Speaker 2: Paradigm shift and they realize there is an eaty presence,

1018
01:01:18,320 --> 01:01:19,119
It's been here a.

1019
01:01:19,079 --> 01:01:21,719
Speaker 3: Long time and there are layers of government that.

1020
01:01:21,679 --> 01:01:24,760
Speaker 2: Know about it, it can be a very deflating moment

1021
01:01:24,760 --> 01:01:28,719
because you can feel so disempowered by that, and as

1022
01:01:28,760 --> 01:01:32,800
you begin to absorb the implications of it, you realize

1023
01:01:33,360 --> 01:01:40,519
how little we're able to affect through our democratic structures. Democracy,

1024
01:01:40,599 --> 01:01:46,760
I think achieved some wonderful things, particularly after democratic reforms

1025
01:01:46,760 --> 01:01:49,960
in the eighteen hundreds, right up until when I was

1026
01:01:50,039 --> 01:01:53,840
a young boy. And since that time, we've seen power

1027
01:01:53,840 --> 01:01:57,840
shift away from democratic structures again, and it's becoming depressingly

1028
01:01:57,920 --> 01:02:02,119
clear that there is an elite that's stands above democracy,

1029
01:02:02,159 --> 01:02:05,159
and we see it reflected in the power of corporations,

1030
01:02:05,519 --> 01:02:10,199
but we also understand that it's happening at a covert level.

1031
01:02:10,280 --> 01:02:11,639
Speaker 3: The mythologists tell us this.

1032
01:02:12,679 --> 01:02:15,719
Speaker 2: I've come to conclude that is the case, and so

1033
01:02:15,880 --> 01:02:19,239
my questions have had to shift because when I was younger,

1034
01:02:19,280 --> 01:02:24,840
I was hopeful that political processes could really bring reform

1035
01:02:24,880 --> 01:02:27,159
and positive change, because I'd seen a little bit of

1036
01:02:27,159 --> 01:02:28,079
that as a boy.

1037
01:02:28,880 --> 01:02:30,199
Speaker 3: Now I'm not very hopeful.

1038
01:02:30,280 --> 01:02:34,760
Speaker 2: I think our democratic structures have really been hijacked, and

1039
01:02:34,840 --> 01:02:39,039
so my question has to shift to how do I

1040
01:02:39,119 --> 01:02:42,719
live in this world? How do we live in this world,

1041
01:02:42,840 --> 01:02:45,880
this world where there has been this sky Council present

1042
01:02:45,960 --> 01:02:49,119
all this time. How do we have the best most

1043
01:02:49,159 --> 01:02:53,039
conscious human experience we can, How do we empower ourselves

1044
01:02:53,320 --> 01:02:57,239
and I think that peer to peer conversation and disclosure

1045
01:02:57,440 --> 01:03:00,840
is really important in this whole process, because if we

1046
01:03:00,920 --> 01:03:05,639
simply allow ourselves to be made too busy by the

1047
01:03:05,679 --> 01:03:10,000
world of work or syllabus bound in the world of education,

1048
01:03:10,440 --> 01:03:13,760
then we won't look above the parapet and see a

1049
01:03:13,840 --> 01:03:14,679
much bigger picture.

1050
01:03:14,760 --> 01:03:17,079
Speaker 3: This is why I love what you're doing, Truth Seeker.

1051
01:03:17,199 --> 01:03:19,920
Speaker 2: I think your show and shows like this are really

1052
01:03:20,079 --> 01:03:23,559
really important in the twenty first century because it's how

1053
01:03:23,599 --> 01:03:28,800
we empower ourselves, talking, listening, getting the bigger picture, understanding

1054
01:03:28,840 --> 01:03:33,199
who we are, and knowing that our power doesn't come

1055
01:03:33,440 --> 01:03:37,360
from our superiors, doesn't come from the governments over us.

1056
01:03:37,719 --> 01:03:38,719
Speaker 3: It comes from who we.

1057
01:03:38,679 --> 01:03:42,159
Speaker 2: Are and our relationship to the cosmos, our relationship to

1058
01:03:42,199 --> 01:03:46,079
consciousness and intelligence. And that's more and more where my

1059
01:03:46,599 --> 01:03:49,719
confidence and my hope comes from.

1060
01:03:50,559 --> 01:03:52,800
Speaker 1: You know, they've been here the whole time, and all

1061
01:03:52,800 --> 01:03:56,079
we had to do was stop and look up or

1062
01:03:56,920 --> 01:03:59,559
stop and look within one or the other. But we're

1063
01:03:59,599 --> 01:04:02,920
so on you know these things that you've mentioned out here,

1064
01:04:02,960 --> 01:04:05,360
and it's very well, it's very much a matrix that

1065
01:04:05,480 --> 01:04:08,679
keeps you locked in that you can't literally all you

1066
01:04:08,760 --> 01:04:10,880
have to do is just like stargates for just a

1067
01:04:10,880 --> 01:04:14,320
couple of days or something, go out. And the part

1068
01:04:14,440 --> 01:04:16,559
is that to say, hey, I'm gonna spend seven hours

1069
01:04:16,559 --> 01:04:21,239
outside tonight stargazing, or you spend seven hours doing other things,

1070
01:04:21,440 --> 01:04:25,000
working your job, but you know of you know, just

1071
01:04:25,079 --> 01:04:27,800
being present in the moment. So I mean all of

1072
01:04:27,840 --> 01:04:31,199
the things you've mentioned about, you know, the spirituality and

1073
01:04:31,239 --> 01:04:35,159
the meditation and breath work and uh, plant ceremonies which

1074
01:04:35,199 --> 01:04:38,440
are like booming right now, and it like you know,

1075
01:04:38,440 --> 01:04:42,440
knowledge is increasing about there. There are connection with the

1076
01:04:42,480 --> 01:04:44,800
plants and how they can help us and serve as

1077
01:04:44,800 --> 01:04:48,360
a medicine. And so this stuff is because of these talks,

1078
01:04:48,360 --> 01:04:51,159
because of these podcasts and art and music and books

1079
01:04:51,199 --> 01:04:53,559
and everything is bringing this stuff back to the table.

1080
01:04:53,599 --> 01:04:56,440
So kudos to you as well. We're at the top

1081
01:04:56,440 --> 01:04:57,760
of the hour. We're gonna go ahead and go to

1082
01:04:57,840 --> 01:05:00,320
a quick break and then we'll come back. Got a

1083
01:05:00,320 --> 01:05:02,719
bunch more questions for you, Paul. I'm enjoying it so much, man,

1084
01:05:02,840 --> 01:05:06,280
We'll be right back. Thank you, guys. Likewise, thanks, and

1085
01:05:06,360 --> 01:05:09,679
just so you guys know, we're in the middle of

1086
01:05:09,679 --> 01:05:12,400
a hurricane. We're in the middle of a hurricane, like

1087
01:05:12,440 --> 01:05:17,400
there's literally one hundred mile an hour winds back and

1088
01:05:17,440 --> 01:05:21,679
forth outside. So I'm hearing it outside my window. Sounds

1089
01:05:21,719 --> 01:05:24,440
pretty scary. We're going through a hurricane right now. But

1090
01:05:25,400 --> 01:05:29,440
we've got the internet, we've got power. We're making it happen. Paul,

1091
01:05:29,719 --> 01:05:33,599
we're talking about your book, Escaping from Eden. Enjoying it

1092
01:05:33,679 --> 01:05:37,639
man so far, and really excited to dig into your

1093
01:05:37,639 --> 01:05:41,519
work because it's not a one stop shop, like it's

1094
01:05:41,559 --> 01:05:44,800
not just you know, this isn't your song and dance

1095
01:05:44,840 --> 01:05:46,480
and you ride off into the wind, like you have

1096
01:05:46,599 --> 01:05:48,320
a lot of stuff that you're bringing to the table

1097
01:05:48,320 --> 01:05:51,559
when it comes to spirituality, when it comes to what

1098
01:05:51,639 --> 01:05:54,480
I would say is true Christianity and returning to the

1099
01:05:54,639 --> 01:05:57,519
essence of living from the heart, as someone would say,

1100
01:05:57,679 --> 01:06:00,920
in many different aspects with that. And so I'm uh,

1101
01:06:01,320 --> 01:06:03,079
you know, I, like I said, I went to your

1102
01:06:03,079 --> 01:06:05,920
website whenever I got the email from from your publicist

1103
01:06:05,960 --> 01:06:08,039
or whatever to check out your work. And and I

1104
01:06:08,320 --> 01:06:11,079
do with a quick, quick, you know, two minute glance,

1105
01:06:11,199 --> 01:06:13,159
I go and say, okay, that that that Okay, that's

1106
01:06:13,159 --> 01:06:16,840
a great conversation. I've got questions and literally that's it. Okay,

1107
01:06:16,920 --> 01:06:19,039
let's book it. It's gonna be a great talk. And

1108
01:06:19,119 --> 01:06:22,760
so I had a quick, you know, synopsis of what

1109
01:06:22,760 --> 01:06:23,480
you were bringing to the.

1110
01:06:23,440 --> 01:06:24,039
Speaker 3: Tanker than me.

1111
01:06:24,400 --> 01:06:27,119
Speaker 2: So you must have been learning at a really rapid

1112
01:06:27,199 --> 01:06:28,679
rate through real life.

1113
01:06:29,400 --> 01:06:31,480
Speaker 1: Well I didn't. You know, I didn't do well in school,

1114
01:06:31,599 --> 01:06:35,079
and I didn't I never learned how to study in school,

1115
01:06:35,119 --> 01:06:37,039
Like I just showed up and didn't. I don't know

1116
01:06:37,039 --> 01:06:39,559
if it was a d D or whatever. I couldn't study.

1117
01:06:39,559 --> 01:06:43,480
It didn't interest me. And then when I finally got

1118
01:06:43,519 --> 01:06:46,360
born again and started reading the scriptures and then all

1119
01:06:46,360 --> 01:06:49,840
of this other material, uh for the first time, like

1120
01:06:50,519 --> 01:06:55,920
studying became a new world for me. All right, ladies

1121
01:06:55,960 --> 01:06:58,159
and gentlemen, we're back. Like I said, we're going through

1122
01:06:58,320 --> 01:07:01,639
a hurricane down here in Mobile, Alabama right now, and

1123
01:07:01,639 --> 01:07:04,880
there's like over we have wind gusts sustain up to

1124
01:07:05,039 --> 01:07:07,800
one hundred miles an hour, so the power is still on,

1125
01:07:07,880 --> 01:07:09,800
but it's going in and out. So we're gonna have

1126
01:07:09,840 --> 01:07:12,159
to make this short. But we got to make it

1127
01:07:12,199 --> 01:07:15,280
happen again, Paul, because I really have enjoyed this conversation

1128
01:07:15,400 --> 01:07:17,840
right up my alley, my research. I love it. Man.

1129
01:07:18,199 --> 01:07:19,599
We have to make this happen again for.

1130
01:07:19,559 --> 01:07:23,000
Speaker 3: Sure, definitely. I look forward to it all.

1131
01:07:22,960 --> 01:07:24,719
Speaker 1: Right, So if people want to get the book, man,

1132
01:07:24,800 --> 01:07:27,159
because you go into all of this stuff and more

1133
01:07:27,199 --> 01:07:29,679
that we've been talking about. This is the first time

1134
01:07:29,719 --> 01:07:32,239
for a lot of people hearing about this stuff. Where's

1135
01:07:32,280 --> 01:07:34,280
the best place for them to go to check out

1136
01:07:34,280 --> 01:07:35,280
your book and get a copy?

1137
01:07:36,079 --> 01:07:40,960
Speaker 2: Sure, go to Amazon, Kindle, Bonds, and Noble. Wherever they

1138
01:07:41,000 --> 01:07:43,559
sell books, they'll sell Escaping from Eden. You can go

1139
01:07:43,599 --> 01:07:47,920
to my website which is Paulanthony Wallace dot com Anthony

1140
01:07:47,960 --> 01:07:48,440
with an H.

1141
01:07:48,559 --> 01:07:51,440
Speaker 3: Wallace w A L L I S. Paul Anthony Wallace

1142
01:07:51,480 --> 01:07:53,880
dot com. Go to the pul Wallace channel on YouTube

1143
01:07:54,280 --> 01:07:56,800
or the Fifth kind TV, and you can keep up

1144
01:07:56,840 --> 01:07:57,760
with everything I'm doing.

1145
01:07:58,719 --> 01:08:01,320
Speaker 1: Sounds good. I was the comments a while ago and

1146
01:08:01,400 --> 01:08:03,840
there was a couple of people like like again, it

1147
01:08:03,920 --> 01:08:05,800
was the first time hearing this, and I got to

1148
01:08:05,800 --> 01:08:07,880
talk to this man, I have to know more. You

1149
01:08:07,960 --> 01:08:10,000
got a lot of stuff at your website, right, because

1150
01:08:10,039 --> 01:08:12,880
I actually just to the website.

1151
01:08:13,599 --> 01:08:16,000
Speaker 2: Definitely, go to Paul Anthony Wallace dot com and you

1152
01:08:16,039 --> 01:08:19,039
can reach me through the about Paul and contact page

1153
01:08:19,399 --> 01:08:20,880
and we can get into a conversation.

1154
01:08:21,680 --> 01:08:23,479
Speaker 1: Good stuff, Paul, Thanks so much for coming on.

1155
01:08:23,560 --> 01:08:23,760
Speaker 2: Man.

1156
01:08:24,239 --> 01:08:26,840
Speaker 1: Enjoyed this talk and hopefully we can make it happen

1157
01:08:26,840 --> 01:08:29,800
again when there's no hurricane, but you know we can't prepare.

1158
01:08:30,279 --> 01:08:30,800
Speaker 3: Mother, Nat.

1159
01:08:31,600 --> 01:08:33,520
Speaker 2: I wish you well and I look forward to our

1160
01:08:33,520 --> 01:08:34,279
next conversation.

1161
01:08:34,439 --> 01:08:36,159
Speaker 3: Thanks so much for today for.

1162
01:08:36,159 --> 01:08:39,199
Speaker 1: Sure, Brother, thank you so much. God bless.

1163
01:08:41,000 --> 01:08:44,720
Speaker 2: It is such a relief that people feel and a

1164
01:08:44,800 --> 01:08:48,359
boost of confidence to trust your own judgment again, which

1165
01:08:48,359 --> 01:08:50,239
I think is you know, if you can't trust your

1166
01:08:50,239 --> 01:08:53,479
own judgment, it's so depressing. But the moment you get

1167
01:08:53,479 --> 01:08:56,399
someone else affirming you that it changes all that.

1168
01:08:57,479 --> 01:09:00,960
Speaker 1: I didn't ask you, but did you go through some

1169
01:09:01,039 --> 01:09:05,880
type of excommunication or gossip and betrayal and stuff like that.

1170
01:09:06,000 --> 01:09:09,079
As you kind of begin to embody your experience and

1171
01:09:09,119 --> 01:09:11,399
be vocal about it, you're what you were finding.

1172
01:09:11,880 --> 01:09:16,199
Speaker 2: Not yet Oh wow, but I'm not I'm not employed

1173
01:09:16,359 --> 01:09:19,760
by religious organizations, so I couldn't I couldn't be de

1174
01:09:19,960 --> 01:09:23,640
licensed or default or anything like that. And I'm really

1175
01:09:23,760 --> 01:09:28,039
still in the process of finding out what the response

1176
01:09:28,119 --> 01:09:31,800
will be. A lot of my colleagues in ministry have

1177
01:09:31,960 --> 01:09:33,760
just sort of taken a step back and a sort

1178
01:09:33,800 --> 01:09:39,159
of stopped communicating with me because I think they're trying

1179
01:09:39,199 --> 01:09:41,399
to work out what on what on earth is going

1180
01:09:41,439 --> 01:09:45,640
on there. I have some though, who I've known a

1181
01:09:45,640 --> 01:09:51,079
long time who sharing the journey with me, and then

1182
01:09:52,199 --> 01:09:55,560
pastors coming out of the woodwork all around the world

1183
01:09:55,680 --> 01:09:58,840
coming to me via my website and saying, Paul, thank

1184
01:09:58,880 --> 01:10:02,039
you so much. It's such a relief bearing a pastor

1185
01:10:02,079 --> 01:10:06,840
talking about these things. These are my experiences, and particularly

1186
01:10:06,920 --> 01:10:12,520
pastors who've been involved in paranormal ministry are saying, look,

1187
01:10:13,079 --> 01:10:15,279
I know about this, but I'm not allowed to talk

1188
01:10:15,319 --> 01:10:16,720
about it in my diocese.

1189
01:10:16,800 --> 01:10:18,039
Speaker 3: Can we have a conversation.

1190
01:10:18,880 --> 01:10:24,239
Speaker 2: So I am actually quite I've been quite pleasantly surprised

1191
01:10:24,359 --> 01:10:28,439
at how much engagement, support and encouragement has come. It's

1192
01:10:28,479 --> 01:10:31,199
awesome from Christian and pastoral quarters.

1193
01:10:32,279 --> 01:10:35,560
Speaker 1: Was so called awakening. Like I think things are changing

1194
01:10:35,600 --> 01:10:38,920
too though. You know, it was like twenty twelve when

1195
01:10:38,920 --> 01:10:42,479
I started talking about but I was probably reckless with it,

1196
01:10:42,520 --> 01:10:45,079
you know, and everything was brand new. And I'm sharing

1197
01:10:45,199 --> 01:10:47,760
articles on UFOs and talking about what I've seen in

1198
01:10:47,800 --> 01:10:51,800
the night sky and all kinds of stuff on social media.