Speaker 1: Always look to the sky.
Speaker 2: The Doctor Sky Experience is on the air seventy seven WABC.
Speaker 1: Now Here's Doctor Sky.
Speaker 3: Welcome to your weekend from the powerhouse blow towards signal
Speaker 3: talk Radio seventy seven WABC and broadcasting from the center
Speaker 3: of the universe, New York City to the nation and
Speaker 3: the world. Welcome to another edition of the Doctor Sky Experience.
Speaker 3: If you're a first time listener, a show about the
Speaker 3: many mysteries from the realms of astronomy, space, aviation, weather,
Speaker 3: celebrity guests and stories of American exceptionalism. We love to
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Speaker 3: a theater of the mind, a show where you can
Speaker 3: obviously learn something new each time we bring on very
Speaker 3: special guests. We love it in the form of critical
Speaker 3: thinking with dialogue, and you can get in and we
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Speaker 3: theater of the mind, don't forget there are many other
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Speaker 3: that you'll be spending a lot of time why listening
Speaker 3: to the great commentary and great shows of the incredible
Speaker 3: hosts that are here on this powerhouse signal once again
Speaker 3: the phone number one eight hundred eight four eight nine
Speaker 3: two two two. And as we talk about this particular
Speaker 3: adventure this morning, something that's near and dear to so
Speaker 3: many people, the mystery of t WA eight hundred, what
Speaker 3: happened to that flight some thirty years ago July seventeenth,
Speaker 3: nineteen ninety six, Still searching for the truth. But also
Speaker 3: we'd like to welcome you to the dog days of summer,
Speaker 3: as if you needed a reminder from me. July three
Speaker 3: to August eleventh's classified as the dog days of summer.
Speaker 3: And you may be wondering why. It's the rising before
Speaker 3: the sun of the brightest star in the heavens. The
Speaker 3: star is serious, the dog star in the constellation Knus Major.
Speaker 3: So hot sultry days of summer obviously are here another
Speaker 3: great heat dome coming to the Midwest to affect some
Speaker 3: thirty three million people, and all this courtesy of a
Speaker 3: super strong El Nino. One of course, that not only
Speaker 3: here in this particular area of the United States, but
Speaker 3: affecting other parts of the world. The Eastern Pacific typhoon
Speaker 3: Bobby continues to pound the Marianas Islands. Just wait and
Speaker 3: see what's in store. The special show that we put
Speaker 3: together with you is about an author named Jack Cashell
Speaker 3: and many of his books. One of them will be
Speaker 3: talking about t WA eight hundred, the crash, the cover up,
Speaker 3: and the conspiracy. And many of you listening to this
Speaker 3: in the New York metro area, I'm sure we'll want
Speaker 3: to chime in and offer your explanation or your actual
Speaker 3: eye witness accounts of that very tragic event hard to
Speaker 3: believe some thirty years ago. Who's her guest, It's Jack Cashell.
Speaker 3: Independent writer and producer. Jack Cashell has written a dozen
Speaker 3: non fiction books and appeared on Sea SPAN's Book ten
Speaker 3: TV ten times. He also produced a score of feature
Speaker 3: length documentaries. Jack serves as executive editor of Ingram's Magazine.
Speaker 3: He writes regularly for American Thinker, American Spectator, and World
Speaker 3: Net Daily, and as all written for The Wall Street Journal, Fortune,
Speaker 3: The Washington Post, and The Weekly Standard. Jacks a PhD
Speaker 3: from Purdue University and the American Studies and is taught
Speaker 3: at a French university on the university that is under
Speaker 3: the auspices of the Fulbright Program. Here to learn so
Speaker 3: much about the mysteries of this thirty years later, Jack Cashell,
Speaker 3: welcome to the Doctor Sky Experience. Thank you for spending
Speaker 3: time with us. We appreciate you.
Speaker 4: Hey, doctor Skuy, thanks for having me. Sure like a
Speaker 4: homecoming for me, since I grew up listening to WABC.
Speaker 3: Absolutely my friend a powerhouse signal as I like to
Speaker 3: talk about, and it'll continue on into infinity. I'm sure
Speaker 3: many people around the world like yourself. I grew up
Speaker 3: in the New York metro area and I had a
Speaker 3: little tiny transistor radio maybe five dollars. My parents had
Speaker 3: to take the earphone out of my ear here and
Speaker 3: say turn that radio off, and I said, no, I
Speaker 3: like to listen to this station. So Jack, this is amazing.
Speaker 4: You grew up. We grew up.
Speaker 3: I was born in Jamaica, Queens, and we moved all
Speaker 3: over the play Jozone Park, Jackson Heights, and then we
Speaker 3: escaped over to New Jersey and now I'm here in Phoenix.
Speaker 4: Because I grew up in New York, New Jersey, and
Speaker 4: in fact, I wrote a book about that experience. It's
Speaker 4: called Untenable, which I'd recommend for people who grew up
Speaker 4: in that part of the world. Is because it's a
Speaker 4: story that no one else wanted to tell.
Speaker 3: Absolutely, Jack, again, an honor to have you here. Jack's
Speaker 3: website cashual dot com. It is c A s hil
Speaker 3: dot com. And if we do have time, Jack, in
Speaker 3: these two hours and this adventure as we call it
Speaker 3: in the theater of the mind, would like to maybe
Speaker 3: talk a little bit and give people some summaries so
Speaker 3: you're in the know on these subjects and they are,
Speaker 3: of course too. Let's start with this event. Yeah, go ahead. Sure.
Speaker 4: I would just say instead of referring people to my website,
Speaker 4: I'd rather you refer to my substat which is where
Speaker 4: I actively produced. Now I'm published, and it is just
Speaker 4: going to substack dot com and look up Jack Cashall
Speaker 4: and you'll find it.
Speaker 3: The best of the best technology.
Speaker 4: There you go, sir, you go, yeah, it's great. It's
Speaker 4: a great service.
Speaker 3: Absolutely, Jack, this is amazing. I had you on a
Speaker 3: show that I did literally ten years ago when the
Speaker 3: book came out, the first edition, talking about this tragic
Speaker 3: event and it was great because the phone line is
Speaker 3: lit up here in the New York I e scuse
Speaker 3: me in the Phoenix area. And I'm sure this will continue.
Speaker 3: But Jack, take us back to this particular time. I
Speaker 3: rather not read this from things like Wikipedia. You're the
Speaker 3: experienced person in the room here in the theater, in
Speaker 3: your mind, talk about this and what got you intrigued
Speaker 3: in this whole story. I mean, it's so fascinating and
Speaker 3: so tragic with no answers to this date.
Speaker 4: Right, Yeah, I'll tell you how I got involved because
Speaker 4: I didn't get involved right away. And when TWAS Flight
Speaker 4: eight hundreds occurred, I was living in Kansas City and
Speaker 4: I didn't I don't recall having a oh ge moment,
Speaker 4: you know where I said, my gosh, this had to
Speaker 4: be something you know, X y Z. But about four
Speaker 4: years after the fact, now we're talking about the year
Speaker 4: two thousand, I belonged to this club and they we'd
Speaker 4: have guest speakers every month. In one month we had
Speaker 4: James and Elizabeth Sanders. And James was the first investigator
Speaker 4: on this case, and he wrote a book called The
Speaker 4: Downing of TWA eight hundred. So I went to the event.
Speaker 4: It was at a country club. I got there late,
Speaker 4: wasn't expecting anything, and the room was filled, and that
Speaker 4: surprised me. Not only was it filled, but it was
Speaker 4: filled with angry people who totally signed on to Jim's
Speaker 4: theory that the plane had been shot down. And after
Speaker 4: a few minutes listening to the questions, I realized, of course,
Speaker 4: this is TWA's ancestral home, Kansas City.
Speaker 3: These people were all veteran.
Speaker 4: T WA people. So after it was over, in fact,
Speaker 4: I went out to dinner with the Sanders and a
Speaker 4: bunch of other people, and I ended up sitting next
Speaker 4: to Elizabeth Sanders, Jim's white, you're really pretty Filipino American,
Speaker 4: sweet as could be. And when I heard her story,
Speaker 4: and when I learned that she and Jim had been arrested,
Speaker 4: convicted of conspiracy for Jim's effort to tell the truth
Speaker 4: about t W eight hundred, I said, man, there's a
Speaker 4: story here that needs to be told because just even
Speaker 4: my sister, my mother, could have been anywhere, and they
Speaker 4: were both convicted, both you know, died convicted a federal court.
Speaker 4: And so the next morning I went to breakfast with
Speaker 4: the Sanders and I asked him, has there been a
Speaker 4: documentary done on the subject, and they said no. And
Speaker 4: at that time, you know, I was doing a lot
Speaker 4: of documentaries, and so we started talking and that began
Speaker 4: a between us, a friendship that lasted until Jim died
Speaker 4: about five years ago, and I still in touch with Elizabeth.
Speaker 4: So once they told me their story, I said to them,
Speaker 4: before I get involved in this, because I don't want
Speaker 4: to just go down some rabbit hole and have it
Speaker 4: be some well maybe this, maybe that, who knows, who knows.
Speaker 4: So I agreed to go. They were living in Fort Lauderdale,
Speaker 4: and I said I'm going to They invited me down.
Speaker 4: We spent three days together. But before I got there,
Speaker 4: I read the two mainstream books that were out about
Speaker 4: t w A Flight one hundred, one written by the
Speaker 4: AP reporter who covered it, Pad Milton, the other by
Speaker 4: the CNN reporter who covered the case, Christine m Groni,
Speaker 4: And they were both full on board, you know, inexplicable
Speaker 4: fuel tank explosion, quite a terrible tragedy. But they're very convincing,
Speaker 4: if you know, because I didn't know that much.
Speaker 3: About the case.
Speaker 4: Nice and so when I got to the Sanders, I
Speaker 4: was skeptical. I said, I'm from Missouri. I'm in Missouri.
Speaker 4: Now you got to show me right, And in three
Speaker 4: days they totally convinced me that they were right. And
Speaker 4: that's again, are the beginning of our adventure together.
Speaker 3: No, that's an incredible story. And I reach out to
Speaker 3: the audience and not to ask a dumb question or anything,
Speaker 3: but I think in all due respect to those that
Speaker 3: passed on that day and all the cover up that
Speaker 3: we hear about and searching for answers, just like in
Speaker 3: many ways but not directly aligned with the uap uf
Speaker 3: O thing, when are we ever going to get disclosure?
Speaker 3: This is totally a different way of trying to get
Speaker 3: skin the cat and try to get answers. I'd like
Speaker 3: to go out to the audience here, particularly those in
Speaker 3: the New York metro area, or maybe anybody around the
Speaker 3: nation that may have had an experience where you actually
Speaker 3: witnessed this particular episode a tragedy in American aviation, a
Speaker 3: tragedy for the world in one eight hundred and eight
Speaker 3: four eight nine, two two two, because I'm sure many
Speaker 3: of those people are still actively in pursuit like we are,
Speaker 3: mister Cashwall, on this particular story. So let's talk about
Speaker 3: the event itself. The aircraft, the Boeing seven forty seven,
Speaker 3: one of the great aircrafts that Mowing's built. Yes, amazing airport.
Speaker 4: Yeah, the workhorse of the sky. I mean they it's
Speaker 4: and it's it's going to Paris from JFK. It takes
Speaker 4: off at seven nineteen perfectly fine, nice evening, something like
Speaker 4: seventy one degrees that had, you know when it took
Speaker 4: off right around just before sun set. And it's got
Speaker 4: two hundred and thirty people on board. Fifty three of
Speaker 4: them are TWA employees. Many of them are dead heading
Speaker 4: back to Paris. So for the TWA family, it was
Speaker 4: a huge strategy. These are their friends and you know,
Speaker 4: their loved ones. And in twelve minutes out of JFK,
Speaker 4: they're heading east along the south coast of Long Island.
Speaker 4: And what makes this kind of interesting and I'm unusual,
Speaker 4: is that you know, the south coast of you know,
Speaker 4: it's the Hampton's all that stuff. This is sort of
Speaker 4: affluent beach communities. At a night, I can miss a
Speaker 4: beautiful summer night. Everyone's out, you know, people on the beach,
Speaker 4: they're out in their decks, they're out of them, you know,
Speaker 4: their rooftop gardens, whatever. So there's what happens. Happens in
Speaker 4: full view of literally thousands of people, some seven hundred
Speaker 4: and fifty of them. We'll talk to the FBI, and
Speaker 4: at seven point thirty one, I will just I'll just
Speaker 4: skip ahead to stave the mystery here. About seven thirty people,
Speaker 4: many people up and down the coast, at least fifty
Speaker 4: six people, according to the NTSB, trace the event from
Speaker 4: the horizon. They see rising from the horizon, streak of
Speaker 4: light and a gray colored kind of squiggling arking over
Speaker 4: approaching the airplane. Explosion, explosion, massive fireball, ball into the sea.
Speaker 4: That was at seven point thirty one. The plane was
Speaker 4: at about thirteen thousand feet and immediately, you know, people
Speaker 4: were calling into the Suffolk County Police, New York City
Speaker 4: Police wherever, and the tragedy was. You know, everyone knew
Speaker 4: what had happened. The plane was gone. It was gone
Speaker 4: from the transponders at the air traffic controllers. It was gone, period.
Speaker 4: And the rest of it was the rest of it.
Speaker 4: The real story begins after the plane crashes, after the
Speaker 4: plane descends into the sea, the unsavory part of the
Speaker 4: story begins.
Speaker 3: Then that's exactly right if you're just tuning into the
Speaker 3: Dutchess Sky experience in our theater of the mind as
Speaker 3: we like to call it. Jack Cash an author of
Speaker 3: many subjects, but in this particular episode, we're speaking with
Speaker 3: him and you too can answer and have maybe some
Speaker 3: of your questions answered. Maybe you were witness to this tragedy.
Speaker 3: The book d W eight hundred, The Crash, to Cover
Speaker 3: Up and the Conspiracy, one of a number of books
Speaker 3: that he's written, and also a documentary on this. But
Speaker 3: a little bit back, I just want to go back
Speaker 3: to the seven forty seven itself. We talk aviation here.
Speaker 3: I'm enamored by this and these are some of the
Speaker 3: things that I've been so proud of over the years.
Speaker 3: I had a rare interview with Joe Sutter, the Boeing
Speaker 3: designer of the seven forty seven. He since passed on.
Speaker 3: But the reason I mentioned that Jack is that this
Speaker 3: particular aircraft for those people that are very technical and
Speaker 3: interested in the aviation world. The aircraft was manufactured in
Speaker 3: July nineteen seventy one. His officially was a Boeing seven
Speaker 3: forty seven Disc one thirty one. It's registered n number.
Speaker 3: This is for people who don't do deep research on
Speaker 3: the airplane itself N nine thirty one one nine with
Speaker 3: a serial number of two zero zero eight three. And
Speaker 3: again not to steal thunder from your story, because it's
Speaker 3: so powerful. It can be leaded sixteen eight hundred and
Speaker 3: sixty nine flights in ninety three thousand, three hundred and
Speaker 3: three hours of operation, empowered by the very reliable Pratt
Speaker 3: and Whitney j T nine D seven eight eight s
Speaker 3: turbofan engines. Now what does that have to do with
Speaker 3: your story? It goes to tell you that these are
Speaker 3: train pilots. These are people that had thousands one of
Speaker 3: hours behind the cockpit knowing what to do with this airplane.
Speaker 3: So many of these theories, just to put it in summation,
Speaker 3: and we're going to have you explain to us some
Speaker 3: of the maybe some of the how ludicrous some of
Speaker 3: these might be, and how maybe relative they are to reality.
Speaker 3: Some of the theories A bomb on the Lord, a
Speaker 3: man Pas shoulder fired missile, a terrorist aircraft hitting the
Speaker 3: TWA eight hundred, a mid level of fmule, tank spark explosion,
Speaker 3: the CIA version, and then it gets even more bizarre.
Speaker 3: But I don't know, a US Navy missile hits the
Speaker 3: airplane by accident, trying to hit a terrorist aircraft that
Speaker 3: flew near the TWA eight hundred. These are all things
Speaker 3: we read. But take us back to reality, give us
Speaker 3: your best assession of what do you.
Speaker 4: Think I just And also, doctor skuy feel free to
Speaker 4: add those details because I'm not an aviator, Okay, I
Speaker 4: don't profess to you know, know more about the press,
Speaker 4: although what I can add. What I can add is this,
Speaker 4: in the history of the seven forty seven, no plane
Speaker 4: ever self combusted in mid air. No plane before nineteen
Speaker 4: ninety six, no plane after nineteen ninety six. And this
Speaker 4: was the very very very rare mechanical failure in which
Speaker 4: the NTSB or the FBIA grounded the fleet and made
Speaker 4: you know, improvements so it wouldn't happen again. They just
Speaker 4: kept on plying that includes the air force. One put
Speaker 4: that in perspective.
Speaker 3: No, it's amazing, Jack, what you're talking about here, And
Speaker 3: now we hear that whole history of the seven forty seven.
Speaker 3: Now they've stopped production, that's a whole nother story for
Speaker 3: the aviation world. But going back to I mean, this
Speaker 3: is amazing. People are witnessing this all over the place.
Speaker 3: Give us an account as you're tell in your book
Speaker 3: and describe it. How many witnesses did indeed the FBI,
Speaker 3: you know, interrogate or take their testimony. I mean, this
Speaker 3: is interesting story to tell us.
Speaker 4: Yeah, I think the final count was seven hundred and
Speaker 4: fifty five.
Speaker 3: Wow.
Speaker 4: And the FBI, by the way, was totally they're in
Speaker 4: over their heads. That's they're not air you know, investigators
Speaker 4: of air craft intimates.
Speaker 3: They shouldn't even.
Speaker 4: Been on the job. But on day one, hour one
Speaker 4: they were designated to take the job over from the
Speaker 4: National Transportation Safety Board, the NTSB, who by law is
Speaker 4: designated to control all in any domestic airplane crashes. Now
Speaker 4: they maintained that control by law. I mean, it's not
Speaker 4: just like a tradition. It's law only if until it's
Speaker 4: are a crime. And this was never declared a crime,
Speaker 4: the destruction of two grade hundred. But the I just
Speaker 4: bullied them right out of the way, right immediately and
Speaker 4: started interviewing people up and down the coast of Long
Speaker 4: Island and then Connecticut, even in New Jersey, people at
Speaker 4: you know, ships at sea, a few aviators who saw it,
Speaker 4: helicopter pilots, and what the FBI would do is they
Speaker 4: would interview someone and fill out what's called the three
Speaker 4: to zero two which is just like a handwritten, you know,
Speaker 4: a document where you would and then it would be
Speaker 4: at some point given to a secretary to type up
Speaker 4: or whatever. So, but they didn't have any GPS, they
Speaker 4: didn't have any navigation as they were really blundering through this,
Speaker 4: which actually ends up helping the people who wanted this
Speaker 4: incident to go away. So they interviewed about seven hundred
Speaker 4: fifty five people. Of those seven fifty five, I think
Speaker 4: that the number was two fifty eight who saw a
Speaker 4: streak of light heading up towards the aircraft. And I
Speaker 4: think the end final MTSP number was fifty six who
Speaker 4: were able to trace that streak of light from the
Speaker 4: horizon all the way to the aircraft. So many of
Speaker 4: these witnesses were just excellent, and a lot of them
Speaker 4: were professionals with serious experience and helicopter pilots for instance,
Speaker 4: and you know former military people, fisherman people who were
Speaker 4: used to knowing what they were seeing, and also people
Speaker 4: it's going to sound a little sort of classes maybe,
Speaker 4: but people who live on along the coast of the
Speaker 4: Amptons and southern Long Island are used to be taken seriously.
Speaker 4: They can't easily be brushed off, and so they were
Speaker 4: very persistent. And the one short coming of this witness
Speaker 4: experience is that this took place just before the Internet
Speaker 4: became a commonplace. Only about twelve percent of the people
Speaker 4: were online, and so the witnesses had had no way.
Speaker 3: Your report that the New York Times came online I
Speaker 3: think in an internet and way back in nineteen ninety
Speaker 3: six or thereabouts, right to.
Speaker 4: Continue, that's when they first came online, exactly. And so
Speaker 4: but the witnesses had no way of knowing there were
Speaker 4: other witnesses because The New York Times wasn't going to interview.
Speaker 3: The interesting right, but firsthand evidence right from the cockpit
Speaker 3: of an aircraft. I'm reading this from your book. No,
Speaker 3: I'm not reading it Forbiden executive, No excuse me. We're
Speaker 3: talking about David McLean, an East Wind pilot, saw the
Speaker 3: tw eight hundred explode right in front of him. And
Speaker 3: what better evidence could you have that something's amissed there
Speaker 3: that we see the explosion. Describe that a little better
Speaker 3: than what I tried to read there because or described
Speaker 3: because when you have that first hand information, they're seeing
Speaker 3: it right from sitting in the cockpit, like, oh my god,
Speaker 3: look at this big airliner. I just saw it explode.
Speaker 3: Tell us more about that. That's inportant in.
Speaker 4: Mc clain's case. And you know, it's been a while
Speaker 4: since I've reviewed this case, but I think remember it well.
Speaker 4: What the I would say the people were become I'm
Speaker 4: going to call it the conspirators, the people who wanted
Speaker 4: this to go away. What they liked about McClain is
Speaker 4: that he didn't see the missile approach. What they didn't
Speaker 4: like about McClean is that he saw the plane fall
Speaker 4: right out of the sky.
Speaker 3: That's amazing.
Speaker 4: Now, why this was a problem is because the CIA,
Speaker 4: which had very discreetly taking control of the investigation from
Speaker 4: the FBI on day one or day two, at the
Speaker 4: end of their the way they closed the investigation was
Speaker 4: the CIA was commissioned this is crazy to create an
Speaker 4: animation that would somehow rationalize explain away what the eyewitnesses saw.
Speaker 4: And so what they concluded, and doctor Scott, you could
Speaker 4: probably speak to this more eloquently than I can. What
Speaker 4: they concluded was that there was an on board explosion
Speaker 4: center fuel tank, spontaneous unknown origin. They blew the nose
Speaker 4: off the plane, and then the noseless plane ascended from
Speaker 4: that point another thirty five hundred and four thousand feet,
Speaker 4: using people into thinking they saw a missile going up.
Speaker 3: Totally ridiculous, but it was spoon fed to us, and
Speaker 3: so many people have known.
Speaker 5: Well.
Speaker 3: Now, obviously through your research and your books investigative journalism,
Speaker 3: people are starting to wake up. But thirty years later,
Speaker 3: oh my gosh, I mean, this is still the greatest mystery.
Speaker 3: And then it goes as we get into this interview
Speaker 3: with our very special guest, Jack Cashell, your questions and
Speaker 3: observations at one eight hundred and eight four eight nine
Speaker 3: to two to two two. Maybe some of you even
Speaker 3: witness this, or no people who had, or sadly again,
Speaker 3: maybe you knew people who actually perished on that particular aircraft.
Speaker 3: But I think I have it right, didn't George Stephanopoulos
Speaker 3: once say, and I don't know if the quote is right,
Speaker 3: Tell the truth, but do it slowly? Is there some
Speaker 3: truth to what I just said?
Speaker 4: I don't know that he said that, but okay, I
Speaker 4: think I don't know that.
Speaker 3: That's what I thought I heard. But that's interesting. So
Speaker 3: the main role of the CIA is to deceive. That's
Speaker 3: the business that they're in, so obviously true.
Speaker 4: I mean, they gave out medals at the end of
Speaker 4: the day, right. I can tell you the guy who
Speaker 4: was said, he has a picture in the CIA magazine,
Speaker 4: Randolph House. He gets like the President's medal for doing
Speaker 4: a good job. And if this has been a foreign adversary,
Speaker 4: and yes, it somehow served our national purpose, I see yes,
Speaker 4: But when you're dealing with American people, that's not your role.
Speaker 4: In fact, the CIA should never had been involved. They
Speaker 4: have no authority at all to meddle in a domestic airplane.
Speaker 3: You're so right. And if you watch that video, I
Speaker 3: guess no, unless they've edited it again. It keeps insisting
Speaker 3: on what center, fuel tank, fuel tank, fuel tank, It
Speaker 3: comes going on and on and on. But you're so right.
Speaker 3: I'm not an aviation I'm not an aviation expert by
Speaker 3: any means, but I know plenty of pilots that are.
Speaker 3: But what I find ludicrous from the science of astronomy
Speaker 3: and space and physics, you don't necessarily see the front
Speaker 3: section of a seven forty seven deciding to propel itself
Speaker 3: higher into the air. And I think in your book
Speaker 3: you describe it even better. Season seven forty seven, Bilots said,
Speaker 3: hell no, that front section would just drop like a
Speaker 3: rock because obviously it defies the laws of physics, which
Speaker 3: is totally amazing. This is fascinating. Thanks, Yes, this is
Speaker 3: fascinating your today talking about something again near and dear
Speaker 3: to so many people out there. But what Jack, I
Speaker 3: mean simply, never has any real conclusion been put forth
Speaker 3: on this. It's still what in the mind of speculation,
Speaker 3: but in the do not know, you do not need
Speaker 3: to know file right or something like that, never to
Speaker 3: tell you it's.
Speaker 4: Pretty much there and now you know, thirty years later,
Speaker 4: it's it remains a mystery, right And yet it wasn't.
Speaker 4: It's not a mystery. I think the White House knew
Speaker 4: within a couple hours exactly what happened, and I think
Speaker 4: they realized that this is an incident they could not
Speaker 4: have exposed until at least after November. It was an
Speaker 4: election year and the Clintons were coming back from the
Speaker 4: dead after the November nineteen ninety four midterms, and they
Speaker 4: were afraid of being primaried early on, but they've climbed back.
Speaker 4: They're running against Bob Dole. You and I could be
Speaker 4: Bob Doll and they center back in the league, and
Speaker 4: the last thing they wanted was to lose that momentum,
Speaker 4: and this would have done it. Whether who's a terrorist
Speaker 4: or whether it was a naval missfire or even whether
Speaker 4: there's a bomb, it would have totally distracted from their mission.
Speaker 4: And this is the number one news story of nineteen
Speaker 4: ninety six. It shove the presidential election off the front
Speaker 4: pages for a month, and so it had to go away.
Speaker 3: Jack Cashle as our guest. We continue with him and
Speaker 3: you leadies and gentlemen at one eight hundred eight four
Speaker 3: eight nine two two two. The Doctor Sky Experience bringing you,
Speaker 3: I think, an exceptional interview with a journalist that spent
Speaker 3: a lot of time studying this from all different angles.
Speaker 3: Your questions and comments at one eight hundred eight four
Speaker 3: to eight nine two two two. The Doctor Sky Experience
Speaker 3: continues on the other side of this commercial break.
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Speaker 1: Now Here's Doctor.
Speaker 5: Sky by visit Joe Sutter, the designer of the Boeing
Speaker 5: seven forty seven, and you're listening to the Doctor Sky show.
Speaker 3: Some information on the Boeing seven forty sent its first
Speaker 3: light back on February ninth, nineteen sixty nine, first commercial
Speaker 3: service January twenty second, nineteen seventy, and its first launch
Speaker 3: customer was pan Am. At that time, twenty five airplanes
Speaker 3: were wardered by PanAm for five hundred and twenty five
Speaker 3: million dollars. Major innovations, the first use of high bypass
Speaker 3: turbofan engines, and the number of seven forty seven models produced.
Speaker 3: There were six the expected life of an average seven
Speaker 3: forty seven some fifteen years, with four hundred deliveries, number
Speaker 3: of seven forty sevens built to date more than one thousand,
Speaker 3: five hundred and forty eight. We continue with a very
Speaker 3: special guest. All of our guests are special in the
Speaker 3: theater of their mind. But this story which still perplects
Speaker 3: as many Flight TWA eight hundred, the crash to cover
Speaker 3: up in the conspiracy by our author and guest, Jack Cashell.
Speaker 3: This event nearly thirty years ago, ladies and gentlemen, and
Speaker 3: still is something that we're concerned about today. Talk a
Speaker 3: little bit more. We talked a little bit before, and
Speaker 3: we didn't give you a fair chance at this. Maybe
Speaker 3: a connection to the Clinton administration without me pointing a finger.
Speaker 3: I'm not the one who knows all this, but the
Speaker 3: point is, talk up a little bit more about this
Speaker 3: whole particular time with the Clintons and this election coming up,
Speaker 3: and maybe a good reason to not give us the
Speaker 3: truth on this because it might have upset an entire
Speaker 3: election cycle. As you described, tell us.
Speaker 4: More tech, right, you know. I break down conspiracy theories,
Speaker 4: doctor Sky, into two basic categories. One or is conspiracies
Speaker 4: of sealment, which are kind of a dime a dozen.
Speaker 4: The others are the conspiracies of execution, which are extremely
Speaker 4: rare at this level, almost impossible. So I've become the
Speaker 4: probably the doctor know of the nine to eleven inside job.
Speaker 4: So I'm so speak conspiracy theorist. I have a reputation.
Speaker 4: And if you write a book with the major publisher,
Speaker 4: and they had lawyers, so everything has to You can't
Speaker 4: just make stuff up. You can't just improvise or speculate.
Speaker 4: So this was the conspiracy of concealment, and I think
Speaker 4: the concealment began the very night of the crash. The
Speaker 4: Clintons were in Washington.
Speaker 3: We know that.
Speaker 4: I know because I've talked to Buzz Patterson to carry
Speaker 4: the nuclear football for the president.
Speaker 3: Yeah, we had him once as a guess what an
Speaker 3: amazing guy.
Speaker 4: Yeah, great guy, and he was as he told me.
Speaker 4: The Clinton's never left the family quarters that evening, so
Speaker 4: they didn't go down to the situation room where George
Speaker 4: STEPHANOPPLA says he was. And that was on the He
Speaker 4: inadvertently said that on nine to eleven when he was,
Speaker 4: you know, stilling time on you know, during the ABC broadcast. Yes, bombing,
Speaker 4: But the people in the situation room, we're trying to
Speaker 4: assess the information coming in. And what's fascinating about that
Speaker 4: night is that even though it was the number one
Speaker 4: news story of the year, and even though we almost
Speaker 4: went to war with Iran over it.
Speaker 3: Oh, here we go again with Iran, Right, Jack, this
Speaker 3: is even back there. It's not disproved the hot.
Speaker 4: Spot in our forty seven year Cold War. None of
Speaker 4: the principles involved wrote about it in their memoirs. So
Speaker 4: Clinton writes a nine hundred page book he ded agates
Speaker 4: one paragraph to fight a hundred Hillary and her five
Speaker 4: hundred pages gives it a half sentence. Louis free out
Speaker 4: of the FBI. Not a word, Leon Panetta, chief of staff,
Speaker 4: Not a word. Stephanopoulos in the room, not a word.
Speaker 4: Dick Morris. He's interesting because in the chapter he refers
Speaker 4: to that chapter as the terror summer of nineteen ninety six.
Speaker 4: Not a word, And then I'm going to say that
Speaker 4: he just listed as one of the terror events of
Speaker 4: that summer. I was on a radio show with Marris
Speaker 4: once and I asked him. I said, Dick, tell us
Speaker 4: what you know. And I asked it three times, and
Speaker 4: three times he made believe that I wasn't there. He
Speaker 4: didn't hear it, and just talked right over me. And
Speaker 4: then I don't want to embarrass the hosts. I'm not
Speaker 4: going anything out ENID. So they decided not to talk
Speaker 4: about it. After the fact. The Senate Intelligence Committee report
Speaker 4: for that year doesn't mention it, even though the CIA
Speaker 4: and the FBI were both heavily involved. So no one
Speaker 4: wanted to talk about what happened. But what did happen.
Speaker 4: What we do know happened that came out of that
Speaker 4: evening is that I believe who was Jamie Grellic, who
Speaker 4: was the Deputy Attorney General who assigned the FBI to
Speaker 4: take over the investigation from the NTSP in a legal move,
Speaker 4: but it was done publicly. I believe it was probably
Speaker 4: I can't name names, are just be guessing, but it
Speaker 4: had to come from the top to instruct the CIA
Speaker 4: to oversee the investigation by the FBI, and that would
Speaker 4: lead to some interesting dynamics down the road because the
Speaker 4: two man missile team for the FBI, who had one
Speaker 4: very good, noble truth teller and one potential scumback on
Speaker 4: that team, and the CIA liked the scumback as he
Speaker 4: was playing their game.
Speaker 3: Wow, this is amazing, you know, Jack, Like, we call
Speaker 3: this the blowtorch signal of this radio station, and obviously
Speaker 3: it is. You're lighting up the phone lines with your
Speaker 3: own blowtorch. So let's go to the callers right now.
Speaker 3: Let's go to line number two and welcome Mark in Arizona. Mark,
Speaker 3: you run with author Jack Cashell on the TWA eight
Speaker 3: hundred mystery. How are we this evening?
Speaker 6: Good?
Speaker 7: Thank you, mister Cashell. Ten years ago, Steve Gates had
Speaker 7: a show in the Phoenix and I heard you on
Speaker 7: the show that night or that day. It was also
Speaker 7: the right.
Speaker 4: Show, and I called in and won your book that
Speaker 4: you had written on the twa eight hundred. All right
Speaker 4: and congratulations, yes, thank you.
Speaker 7: Can you sign it now?
Speaker 6: Just kidness.
Speaker 7: On July seventeenth, my wife and I headed to Atlanta
Speaker 7: for the Olympics and we heard all this commotion going
Speaker 7: on when we landed, and it started all this investigation.
Speaker 7: So my question for you, can you tell us that
Speaker 7: there was ever a foyer request by any organization about
Speaker 7: the details of what actually happened. And also, my father
Speaker 7: in law worked for American Airlines for thirty years out
Speaker 7: of Kennedy, and when he retired, he's there for forty years.
Speaker 7: He said, it's no way possible for that fuel tank
Speaker 7: to explode. No way possible, right, So can you also
Speaker 7: tell me you have about in their part? I'm sorry,
Speaker 7: Oh no.
Speaker 4: That's that's a good because that leads to an interesting segue. Yeah,
Speaker 4: you raise a good point. It was the Atlanta Olympics
Speaker 4: was started on the nineteen of July, so the military,
Speaker 4: the Navy especially was on a high state of alert.
Speaker 4: There's all these hard dignitaries coming in playing to chat
Speaker 4: out of the sky that's struggled. You know, you have
Speaker 4: to shut down the skies. They the PIS did a
Speaker 4: Pierre Salinger part. By the way, I spoke to the
Speaker 4: QB's and pressed it, and about two years ago I
Speaker 4: think I'm this year going to come to Phoenix to
Speaker 4: talk to the QB chapter there.
Speaker 3: Well, we need to sit and have a lunch. If
Speaker 3: you'd be so, okay, that would be nice to sit
Speaker 3: and chat with.
Speaker 4: The Salader. Thing opens the way to a kind of
Speaker 4: semi amusing anecdote. I know it's not funny for people
Speaker 4: who are family members on this plane. I just sometimes
Speaker 4: you just need to break from the solemnity of it.
Speaker 4: But in the fall of nineteen ninety six, yeah, fall
Speaker 4: of I'm sorry. Let me jump forward the fall of
Speaker 4: twenty sixteen. Billary Clinton is running for president against Donald Trump.
Speaker 4: Jim Cawstrom, who's the FBI head of investigation, is on
Speaker 4: Fox News just about nightly as their national security advisor.
Speaker 4: Remember no, and Colstrum made very clear is the stays
Speaker 4: for the Clintons. And he went, in fact as far
Speaker 4: as to endorse Donald Trump, which was kind of unprecedented
Speaker 4: and unprofessional, But he did it, and so every time
Speaker 4: he'd appear, I'd hear from the family members of the victims,
Speaker 4: and they would say, I see when I see him,
Speaker 4: if he wants to affect the election, why doesn't you
Speaker 4: just tell the truth about t W eight hundred exactly?
Speaker 4: So that a good point. So what I did is
Speaker 4: I sent him. I have a private eye friend who
Speaker 4: got his address, and I sent him a registered letter
Speaker 4: making that request. And then to avoid I live in
Speaker 4: a democratic neighborhood, by the way, I don't like to
Speaker 4: be around during elections. So I went to France for
Speaker 4: a couple of weeks, and since it was November, I
Speaker 4: started to go to south of France because the weather's nicest.
Speaker 4: So in the evening of all about a week before
Speaker 4: the election, I'm sitting out of the promenade and nice.
Speaker 4: I don't know anyone's been there, but it's right along
Speaker 4: the Mediterranean. I'm sitting on a bench looking over the Mediterranean.
Speaker 4: On my phone rings. So I picked it up and says, kinetic,
Speaker 4: right now I had heard that Calsh from everyone says
Speaker 4: this was a totally profane bullye And I picked up
Speaker 4: the phone and he goes, is this Jack Ashall I said, yes,
Speaker 4: what I mean, he's dropping f bombs on me, like
Speaker 4: goes his own personal Dresden. Why you're just obliterating me?
Speaker 4: And then I got him to calm down and and
Speaker 4: I said, we're on the same side here. I said,
Speaker 4: he was very upset that the family members weren't, you know,
Speaker 4: buying what he was selling. And got him to calm down.
Speaker 4: We're on the same side in the selection. Let's try
Speaker 4: to just get over the finish line here. And then
Speaker 4: he goes, are you not one of those people who
Speaker 4: believed that a terrorist shot down the airplane?
Speaker 6: Are you right?
Speaker 4: He seems so out of it. I said, no, I'm not.
Speaker 4: I wish it were that way. You know, when I
Speaker 4: first got into it, I was hoping that would be
Speaker 4: the outcome because it's more explainable, you know, I said,
Speaker 4: but I'm the unfortunate fact. I said, our navy shot
Speaker 4: it down. And then he really went off. And here's
Speaker 4: the funny part. He goes, you sound like that, I
Speaker 4: think Pierre Salinger He held an f press conference on
Speaker 4: the Think French Riviera right after in November of nineteen.
Speaker 3: Right and the Sallengers hypothesis was a navy missile of
Speaker 3: course right. That's it's right.
Speaker 4: And I'm sitting here thinking, thank God, he doesn't know
Speaker 4: where I am. I'm on the French Riviera. We'd have
Speaker 4: been in war with France in a couple of weeks if.
Speaker 3: You knew where I was. Jack, let me go back
Speaker 3: to Mark, if you have a quick follow up here.
Speaker 3: We're almost up against the break here, but I appreciate
Speaker 3: your following up with us, and also following the previous
Speaker 3: shows that I did. It's nice to meet somebody after
Speaker 3: that many years who has followed that.
Speaker 7: You go ahead, Mark, before we leave the night, would
Speaker 7: you mention your books on Ashley Babbitt and the black
Speaker 7: educational system in America?
Speaker 6: What happened to the Blacks?
Speaker 4: Yeah? My book on Ashley Babbitt is actually called Ashley
Speaker 4: The Untold Story of the Women of January sixth, and
Speaker 4: I wrote a book on not so much on black education,
Speaker 4: as in the collapse of America cities from my own
Speaker 4: personal experience. A book is called Untenable, The True Story
Speaker 4: of White ethnic flight from America Cities.
Speaker 3: Interesting. Thank you, Mark in Arizona. Jack, we're going to
Speaker 3: come up on a break here in just a moment.
Speaker 3: But I just want to remind if your building, if
Speaker 3: you're still on the line, and hope you are. Line
Speaker 3: three is Alexi. You'll get on. Line four is George
Speaker 3: and Westchester, and line five Tom and Long Island. But
Speaker 3: what about you, ladies and gentlemen, do you have any
Speaker 3: personal feelings about this? Of course you do, and maybe
Speaker 3: you are also witnessed to some of this that we're
Speaker 3: talking about a tragic day in American history, the destruction
Speaker 3: of TWA flight eight hundred. The contact number one eight
Speaker 3: hundred eight four eight nine two two two. As we
Speaker 3: speak with Jack Cashell, give out your substack site, because
Speaker 3: if I just give your website, I know you wanted
Speaker 3: me to direct people. What is that so people can
Speaker 3: hear it again?
Speaker 4: Yeah, the substack is just go to subsack dot com.
Speaker 4: It's a great service, by the way, and I do
Speaker 4: it daily column It's like I'm a daily columnist and
Speaker 4: you go to subsech dot com and he searched Jack Cashell,
Speaker 4: and I'll take it on my page and then you
Speaker 4: can subscribe. You don't have to pay to subscribe either.
Speaker 4: You can pay if you like, but you don't have
Speaker 4: to you I take all com well.
Speaker 3: God bless you, Jack, and we'll even talk later in
Speaker 3: our one or even hour two an article that you've
Speaker 3: written back in June of this year and subtitled what
Speaker 3: John Gottie Knows about TWA Flight eight hundred. We'll be
Speaker 3: right back with our special guest, Jack Cashell. The Doctor
Speaker 3: Sky Experience, the Theater of the Mind continues, and again
Speaker 3: we want to thank our helmsman, both Bill and Jackson
Speaker 3: for making sure that you get on the air and
Speaker 3: that we can hear you on this powerhouse blowtorch station
Speaker 3: Talk Radio seventy seven WABC. We'll be right back.
Speaker 2: The Doctor Sky Experience entertaining and informative on the Red
Speaker 2: Apple Podcast Network. This is the Doctor Sky Experience. Always
Speaker 2: look to the Sky. Seventy seven WABC. Now here's Doctor Sky.
Speaker 6: Hi.
Speaker 8: This is legendary pilot Dick Rutan, who is first to
Speaker 8: fly NonStop around the world, and you are listening to
Speaker 8: the Doctor Sky Show.
Speaker 3: The most passengers ever carried on a seven forty seven
Speaker 3: and now Ale seven forty seven took off with one
Speaker 3: thousand and eighty six people on takeoff and landed with
Speaker 3: one thousand and eighty eight. Two babies were born in flight.
Speaker 3: The reason for the high passenger load evacuation of Ethiopian
Speaker 3: Jews from Addis Ababa. We continue with Jack Cashell forty
Speaker 3: eight minutes after the hour. Jack amazing stories about not
Speaker 3: only the aircraft, but the sad tragedy of how this
Speaker 3: happened is We continue with explore. Let's continue with our guests.
Speaker 3: They've been patient on the line and the callers, I
Speaker 3: should say, line number three, Alexian Queens, you're on with
Speaker 3: Jack Cashell. Good morning.
Speaker 9: Yes, he address this to your guests, sir. First and foremost,
Speaker 9: I'm going to make two points briefly, I will hope
Speaker 9: you will appreciate these points.
Speaker 10: First of all, there was an excellent film that was
Speaker 10: made some decades ago and the name of the film
Speaker 10: is No Highway in the Sky. It features a prominent actor,
Speaker 10: James Stewart. It is about an aircraft engineer who he
Speaker 10: plays who it's insisting that he knows something about why
Speaker 10: he's playing, His company's playing there, breaking apartment pieces in
Speaker 10: the air, and throughout the story he's not believed until
Speaker 10: finally the end he is correct. He proves it as
Speaker 10: his theory is proven and he is correct. An amazing story.
Speaker 10: You must you must watch the film.
Speaker 3: What's the name of again, Alexi, I didn't hear it, clearly,
Speaker 3: maybe the listeners didn't tell us again, Oh, okay.
Speaker 10: The name of the there is no and all highway
Speaker 10: like a highway you dive ont in the sky the sky.
Speaker 10: It stars James James Stewart, and it's an excellent movie,
Speaker 10: excellent about aircraft that are suddenly breaking at the pieces
Speaker 10: and such and exploding in the air.
Speaker 3: Well, Alexi, thank you for that bit of information on
Speaker 3: aviation structure and the integrity of aircraft. Jack are a
Speaker 3: common from you, if you'd like on that. I think
Speaker 3: it's important too.
Speaker 4: No, I mean it's I don't know that movie, but
Speaker 4: I'll check it out because it's the subject that interests me.
Speaker 4: But you know, it's happened then. I don't know when
Speaker 4: that movie was made. But in the era of Jedi fuel,
Speaker 4: which is sort of like kerosene, planes have become far
Speaker 4: less flammable and far less subject to you know, like
Speaker 4: internal explosions that are caused by you know, sparks or
Speaker 4: some other things. But so it's and that's why the
Speaker 4: seven forty seven says, other than played eight hundred, I
Speaker 4: have never experienced that.
Speaker 3: Never Well, you're going to give us even greater information
Speaker 3: and our number two, I'm sure about the whole CIA
Speaker 3: theory and the video in which many people, of course
Speaker 3: like yourself are sitting back going wait a minute, from
Speaker 3: all the witness testimony, eyewitness testimony and others. It certainly
Speaker 3: can't be as we talk about a cover up. Let's
Speaker 3: continue on the phone lines. They're important to us. All
Speaker 3: the callers line number four. We welcome George and Westchester.
Speaker 3: Good morning. You're on with Jack Cashall.
Speaker 5: How are you doing that, gentlemen, Sherlock Holmes says, nothing
Speaker 5: over you guys, tremendous show. Let me just let me
Speaker 5: just set this up. Two months before flight eight hundred,
Speaker 5: the plane crash in the Everglades in Florida that went down,
Speaker 5: killing over one hundred.
Speaker 3: People on that plane.
Speaker 5: And then also a couple of days after the flight
Speaker 5: eight hundred, the Olympic bombing took place and the security
Speaker 5: guard who was a hero, saw the package started evacuating people,
Speaker 5: and then they accused him because he was a white guy.
Speaker 5: They were accusing him that he planted it to become
Speaker 5: like a hero, which was psychotic. The FBI was doing it.
Speaker 5: The media piggyback guy, and eventually the gentleman who was
Speaker 5: a great hero settled for millions of dollars for defamition.
Speaker 5: So what happens a couple of days before the Olympics starts,
Speaker 5: Fight eight hundred goes down. Like you said before, there's
Speaker 5: like seven eight hundred eye witnesses. But we never really
Speaker 5: get to even hear any of these witnesses. We never
Speaker 5: hear anything about it, and we never really get to
Speaker 5: scrutinize even people who were the passages on that plane.
Speaker 5: Just to do a full investigation. Now let me fast
Speaker 5: forward to two thousand.
Speaker 11: And one, but go ahead.
Speaker 5: Yeah, but this the people loving this two thousand and
Speaker 5: one November, the fight that crashed over two thousand and
Speaker 5: one and Bell Harber beautiful to day. They blamed the
Speaker 5: pilots for that. They said, wake turbulence, they put in
Speaker 5: control the you know, the instruments and stuffle the instruments
Speaker 5: weren't up the paw And they thought because this was
Speaker 5: right after nine to eleven, so but to me, I
Speaker 5: think it was they didn't want to scan the people
Speaker 5: before the Olympics that a terrorist attack occurred. And also
Speaker 5: right after nine to eleven two months, even though we
Speaker 5: had to speak Obama in December two thousand and one.
Speaker 3: Well, you bring good points, George. Not to catch the short,
Speaker 3: I'm going to try to get others on the air hair.
Speaker 3: But a response back from you, Jack gave you so long?
Speaker 3: Go ahead?
Speaker 4: Yeah, both excellent observations. The fellow's name was Richard Jewel.
Speaker 4: Why do you like Richard Jewels the suspect? It's because
Speaker 4: that meant it wasn't terrorism, just some sort of you know,
Speaker 4: a nutty security card. They made a good movie about
Speaker 4: that too, Clint Eastwood did in November. Crash of that
Speaker 4: plane was headed Ford, Dominican Republic November two thousand and one,
Speaker 4: was highly suspicious. No one, me included wanted that plane
Speaker 4: to be terrorists. You know, it's confirmation bias rule the day.
Speaker 3: Are you refarming, Jack? Excuse me? Are you referring to
Speaker 3: the one that crashed along the Jamaica area, I mean
Speaker 3: right along they believe Yeah, absolutely, Okay.
Speaker 4: Colin Powell was the one Secretary of State is the
Speaker 4: one who who went to the scene. When does that happen?
Speaker 3: No, that's crazy. But one of the theories there again
Speaker 3: not to catch you short, is that the vertical stabilizer
Speaker 3: on that plane, which was made out of like a
Speaker 3: plexiglass or something, not a regular metal, you know, structure
Speaker 3: also helped that aircraft go down. But if I believe
Speaker 3: that that is really the truth, I don't know. But
Speaker 3: that's an interesting one that we're talking about here, another
Speaker 3: sad loss of life. And I always thought that that
Speaker 3: was the shoe bomber thing, but that's really not the
Speaker 3: same aircraft that we're talking.
Speaker 4: About, right, You know, I was suspicious, But I'll just
Speaker 4: tell you the psychology of every American and November two
Speaker 4: thousand and one is we didn't want it to be terrorism.
Speaker 3: I hear you.
Speaker 4: We didn't want to air our planes, you know, the
Speaker 4: air the air plane shut down, the airport shundown. We
Speaker 4: wanted to get back to our life and the psychology
Speaker 4: that era. You'd have to have been there. I mean,
Speaker 4: young people don't understand that at all, you know.
Speaker 3: No, it's great to listen to these stories and the
Speaker 3: books that you've written, particularly about this mystery for thirty years.
Speaker 3: I mean, look at this, this has never been solved.
Speaker 3: Let's try if we can to get another caller on
Speaker 3: before the top of the hour line Number four George
Speaker 3: and Westchester. You've been patient. You're on with Jack Cashall
Speaker 3: and we lost him. But call back if you so desire.
Speaker 3: Line five, Tom and Long Island. You're on the air
Speaker 3: with Jack Cashall. Good morning to you.
Speaker 8: Give him one, doctor Scott. Scott. I'm sorry. I just
Speaker 8: I remember this day, this evening very well. My wife
Speaker 8: came out running out of the house telling me that
Speaker 8: a plane had just gone down. Was to close. It
Speaker 8: just shout to us. I live in Shirley, and I say, well, unbelievable.
Speaker 8: The next day I go to work and I stopped
Speaker 8: at the seven to eleven up by the expressway and
Speaker 8: William Floyd Park, right, and this is about maybe cinem morning.
Speaker 8: Called to six and there's six US divers in there
Speaker 8: gathering a like bananas stuff like that and rolls and coffee,
Speaker 8: and one of them all was getting my corte. I
Speaker 8: go wow, I said, you guys had out to Gebresci Airport.
Speaker 8: You got something going on. There's not who are you
Speaker 8: and divers? He was going out to look for that
Speaker 8: wreck that night. And I was like, that is like
Speaker 8: really weird to me. So I bought them all coffee
Speaker 8: that I thanked it for that Patriot. Then I went
Speaker 8: to work and the foreman, who was a big fisherman,
Speaker 8: was out the night before in the off the coast
Speaker 8: in the dory with him and his buddy flute fishing,
Speaker 8: and they said, he told me, I seen that missile
Speaker 8: go up. So now that's two things in the same
Speaker 8: morning day after this event, and I got my mind
Speaker 8: thinking about I don't know. After they started pulling w
Speaker 8: records up, I got transferred to another job and I
Speaker 8: met up with a friend of mine who was working
Speaker 8: on a different job at Cavilton, the old Grumming grounds
Speaker 8: where they were staging all the particles that were from
Speaker 8: the playing wrecked going up there, and he had there.
Speaker 8: He got a call to go back in and clean
Speaker 8: the job out because they're taking it, taking back the
Speaker 8: building temporarily, because they went in there to replace everything
Speaker 8: when Grumming left, to put it back to Navy standards
Speaker 8: from the nineteen sixties, if you understand what I'm saying, Okay.
Speaker 8: So he goes in there with an instrument camera and
Speaker 8: the plane is now somewhat put back together, no wings.
Speaker 8: He snapped some pictures the sports side of the futurelage,
Speaker 8: all the windows up into a ware about the wing
Speaker 8: area was were in line, but the piece that was
Speaker 8: put back in that was like missing. It was huge.
Speaker 8: I would say like they would accompliss maybe eight windows, maybe.
Speaker 3: A little more sure that they.
Speaker 8: Were not in consent. They were not typical with the
Speaker 8: rest of the windows you would see on a plane.
Speaker 8: They were spaced differently like in other words, that and
Speaker 8: the paint didn't master. The follow wasn't the same. And
Speaker 8: he says, you know what, I think the Navy shot
Speaker 8: this plane down. I about a week a week before
Speaker 8: I was watching an old movie on TMC. It was
Speaker 8: called The Bedford him Soon.
Speaker 3: Yea, I know.
Speaker 8: It was Sidney Poetry, Sydney Potrier, Richard Witmark and the
Speaker 8: kid who used to play Dan o Ony five h
Speaker 8: And they're talking at the end and chasing this Russian
Speaker 8: sub of the Arctic, and it was like he had
Speaker 8: this crew under immense practice and practice and practice, and
Speaker 8: I joke firessations and oh, don't.
Speaker 3: Tell us the end. You'll ruin it. No, you'll ruin it.
Speaker 1: Tom.
Speaker 3: I'm holding Tom. You got to hear this. And we're
Speaker 3: out of time here in just a minute with Jack
Speaker 3: Fis and we'll do our number two. Your story, Tom
Speaker 3: is fascinating. You got to be kidding me, folks. I'm
Speaker 3: holding a copy of the DVD in my hand, the
Speaker 3: Bedford Incident, Richard Widmark and Cindy Portugue. That's amazing. But
Speaker 3: don't tell us the end of the movie though, Tom,
Speaker 3: there you go. But no, thank you for testifying about something.
Speaker 3: You're right. So many strange Tom's that happened. That's amazing.
Speaker 4: To Tom's point, the reconstruction that plane was not done
Speaker 4: honestly at all. What they did is they they hammered
Speaker 4: it into place to support the conclusion that the explosion
Speaker 4: came from the interior plane. That's the exterior.
Speaker 3: Amazing.
Speaker 4: So they had a band metal to make that, to
Speaker 4: create that illusion and sustain it. It was I mean
Speaker 4: it is.
Speaker 3: We're just talking.
Speaker 4: A handful of people were in on this. It's not everyone.
Speaker 4: Most people there thought you were doing a good job
Speaker 4: and doing hard work.
Speaker 3: How the number one ends, Sorry to cut everybody short,
Speaker 3: but Tom in Long Island, thank you for testifying. Continue,
Speaker 3: ladies and gentlemen, and if Dave would like to hold
Speaker 3: on in Pennsylvania, we'll get to you an hour number
Speaker 3: two one, eight hundred eight four eight nine two two,
Speaker 3: two thirty years later, the mystery of TWA eight hundred,
Speaker 3: the crash, the cover up, and the conspiracy in the
Speaker 3: opinion in a book or two from our author Jack Cashall.
Speaker 3: We'll see you on the other side of these announcements
Speaker 3: as the Doctor Sky Experience in the Theater of the
Speaker 3: Mind continues.
Speaker 2: In just a few moments, drop the Doctor Sky Experience
Speaker 2: entertaining and informative.
Speaker 1: On the Red Apple Podcast Network to the Sky.
Speaker 2: The Doctor Sky Experience is on the air seventy seven WABC.
Speaker 1: Now Here's Doctor Sky.
Speaker 3: Our number two continues on the Doctor Sky Experience, the
Speaker 3: Theater of the Mind as we like to call it,
Speaker 3: from where the power hells blow towards signal of Talk
Speaker 3: Radio seventy seven WABC and proud to be rebroadcasting from
Speaker 3: the center of the Universe, New York City to the
Speaker 3: nation in the world. And if you're a first time listener,
Speaker 3: we do appreciate you as well as our regular listeners.
Speaker 3: A show about the great mysteries of the universe, from astronomy, space, aviation,
Speaker 3: whether celebrity guests, stories of American exception was. You can
Speaker 3: get in on the conversation and we encourage you to
Speaker 3: do that at one eight hundred eight four eight nine
Speaker 3: two two two and again proud to say it. While
Speaker 3: you're at it, why not download the WABC app from
Speaker 3: our Theater of the Mind. There are many other rooms
Speaker 3: that you can go into with great information and I'm
Speaker 3: sure you will find useful for your day and your night.
Speaker 3: We continue with special guests. All guests are special Jack Cashall,
Speaker 3: author of so many books. We'll get into some of
Speaker 3: the others, but the primary focus is the thirty year
Speaker 3: tragedy of TWA eight hundred, behind the cover up and
Speaker 3: conspiracy with author Jack Cashall. Jack, welcome back. Let's go
Speaker 3: to the callers and do respect for those that didn't
Speaker 3: get in and our number one here say good morning
Speaker 3: to Dave online two in Pennsylvania. You've been patient, Good morning,
Speaker 3: your comment or question?
Speaker 11: Hello, doctor Stuy. First of all, do you have any
Speaker 11: books out? I would like to read at least one
Speaker 11: book of yours? And what is your pen name? And
Speaker 11: now I'll get to the get.
Speaker 3: No, well, I don't at the point, and that's something
Speaker 3: I'd like to work on. But I'd like to focus.
Speaker 11: On the too. But I really I can't. I want
Speaker 11: to write a book on short stories, with short stories
Speaker 11: on all kinds of different environmental and ecological matters to
Speaker 11: get to the truth. If one leaves another one to
Speaker 11: some form of truth, and the one after that com
Speaker 11: bonds the to make more truth out of tropical rainforest,
Speaker 11: d forest stay, symplastic pollution.
Speaker 3: All right, but hey, I gotta slow you down. I
Speaker 3: gotta put the brakes on the asbestos pads there. But
Speaker 3: I want you, Dave. I appreciate you asking me about
Speaker 3: a book. Yes, that's in my goal plan, and I'll
Speaker 3: be talking about that some other time. But in due
Speaker 3: respect to the guest, do you have a question regarding
Speaker 3: t w A eight hundred as we move forward?
Speaker 11: Go ahead, t w A Okay, Now this is sort
Speaker 11: of related. Drones and t w A. Drones were attempted
Speaker 11: to shoot the president? Was that right when I heard
Speaker 11: on the news?
Speaker 4: Right, let me take this answer.
Speaker 3: Go ahead, because we got to move forward. Dave. I
Speaker 3: appreciate your concerns, but we got to stay on measure here.
Speaker 3: Go ahead.
Speaker 6: John Jones.
Speaker 4: Jones play a part in this in this story and
Speaker 4: the Pikabad understood because it seems altogether likely that there
Speaker 4: was a missile test going on at that night with
Speaker 4: drones as the target. We know, I have saw the
Speaker 4: video of a missile test off the south coast of
Speaker 4: Long Island five days earlier, in which, from all appearances,
Speaker 4: is an amateur video set off a book on rooftop.
Speaker 4: It appears that the a missile comes up out of
Speaker 4: the sea, destroys a drone, and then the drone you know,
Speaker 4: flutters back to the to the water, and the missile
Speaker 4: you know, tracks exactly like a missile attract It was
Speaker 4: five days before July twelfth. On July seventh, multiple people
Speaker 4: recorded seeing a drone missile exercise in that same basic
Speaker 4: body of water. So drones do play a part.
Speaker 3: Well, Jack, I thank you for that, and I appreciate
Speaker 3: your generality there, Dave. Let's move on to line number four. Ed,
Speaker 3: he's been patient in Long Island. You're on with Jack cashall,
Speaker 3: and I just asked the audience and due respect your guest,
Speaker 3: we try to stay.
Speaker 6: I'm not patient. I'm happy to listen. I wish the
Speaker 6: show was three hours. Wow, truly you you you oh.
Speaker 6: It's always good, even than John John's show on on
Speaker 6: Sunday mornings. When you get out, it's always good to
Speaker 6: hear you. I want to tell you that I had
Speaker 6: a coworker coming to work the next day after.
Speaker 12: Flight A hundred uh happened, and she said she was
Speaker 12: on the south shore of Island, on the beach and
Speaker 12: here we used to have the Groucci fireworks factory, the
Speaker 12: Grucci company that had no so they well know you've.
Speaker 3: Heard of them, absolutely world famous.
Speaker 6: She said that she saw what she thought was a
Speaker 6: report a skyrocket go up, and she said, oh, there
Speaker 6: must be there must be fireworks tonight. She watched it
Speaker 6: go up and she watched it hit a plane going
Speaker 6: over and the plane exploded. This is what she told me,
Speaker 6: with a white just the blood drawn from you know
Speaker 6: her I'm feeling safe, feeling right now from her face
Speaker 6: and you know, we know the tragedy that happened. And
Speaker 6: I have to ask your guests about fuel tanks. So
Speaker 6: this plane took off and it had it has full
Speaker 6: fuel tanks. So when fuel tanks begin empty, maybe there's
Speaker 6: some oxygen in them, or what is in them? What
Speaker 6: what goes in them? And what would cause an explosion
Speaker 6: a static electric effect with with the jet fuel or
Speaker 6: what's the mechanical engineering? Uh, you don't want this.
Speaker 4: You know what happened is that for you know, for
Speaker 4: four years the National Transportation Safety Board tried to stimulate
Speaker 4: some combination of sparks and and they couldn't do it.
Speaker 4: So what they had to do was, yeah, and they
Speaker 4: had they had a jack with the former they had
Speaker 4: to put gasoline in the in the center fuel tank
Speaker 4: and may explode. Uh yeah. When my book came out
Speaker 4: that this guy the angriest letters I got, and I
Speaker 4: must have gotten fifty of them or from maybe maybe
Speaker 4: not fifty, it was probably twenty is more realistic from
Speaker 4: people who had worked on fuel tanks and airplanes, they said,
Speaker 4: no way, nohow could not have happened. And they said
Speaker 4: the spark that is generated by this one element, he said,
Speaker 4: imagine three fireflies hied together and jed a fuel by
Speaker 4: the way, is you could drop a match into it
Speaker 4: without exploding it? Now like.
Speaker 6: Yeah, it's more like he it's a person.
Speaker 3: Yeah, lower flammability, I gather is the way they do it.
Speaker 3: But I'm not an expert fuel area.
Speaker 4: But there you go on you vaporized by like an
Speaker 4: exterior explosion, and then all bets are off and it
Speaker 4: becomes very vulnerable.
Speaker 3: Ed in Long Island. Thank you so much for your
Speaker 3: kind comments about the show and even more important being
Speaker 3: part of this show, as we call it, a theater
Speaker 3: of the mind. I wish you a great weekend and
Speaker 3: hope you'll be a continuance here on the Doctor Skuy Experience.
Speaker 3: We go now to line number five, Robert in Philadelphia.
Speaker 3: He's a regular caller and obviously brings insightful commentary. You're
Speaker 3: on with Jack Cashall. Thanks for your patience.
Speaker 13: Hi, Doctor Stuy, as always is great to talk to you,
Speaker 13: and I appreciate your wonderful guest.
Speaker 8: Jack.
Speaker 13: I'm looking at it just logic, logically, and we know
Speaker 13: that there was one of them Ages style naval ships
Speaker 13: in there, whether they were doing tests or not. And
Speaker 13: we know that only a president could get the CIA
Speaker 13: to take over something that rightful belongs to the FBI
Speaker 13: and the NTSB. So who else would be responsible if
Speaker 13: it wasn't an accident, why would they cover up just
Speaker 13: an accident? And is there anybody associated with not just
Speaker 13: a cleanse, but the entire administration on the passenger lift?
Speaker 13: And I'll hang up and listen to your thought and
Speaker 13: listen to your answer. Really appreciate you guys. Thank you
Speaker 13: very much.
Speaker 3: Thank you, Robert. I always appreciate your questions.
Speaker 4: Yeah, I know the last question. First, there was no
Speaker 4: one on that plane. Who deserves is our own missile.
Speaker 4: So people say, have you chanced the passenger you know
Speaker 4: is yeah, but that's not the case. That's not like
Speaker 4: you don't take out a seven forty seven to kill
Speaker 4: one person. You could kill on the terminal. As to
Speaker 4: the other part of the question, who authorized see IEA,
Speaker 4: You're right, I had to come from the top, and
Speaker 4: it's so the problem was we should have this should
Speaker 4: have been busted immediately. But the New York Times was
Speaker 4: the only agency, the only news operation to which the
Speaker 4: FBI would speak, and they were so jealous of that
Speaker 4: connection that they chose to do what the FBI told
Speaker 4: them to do, which meant they did not interview one
Speaker 4: single eye witness to the anyone who thought they saw
Speaker 4: a missile was off limits to The New York Times
Speaker 4: zero and so they never mentioned the CIA involvement up
Speaker 4: until the very end, when CIA produces the stilling animation.
Speaker 4: So the failure the New York Times told tell the
Speaker 4: truth about the story doom the story they could have
Speaker 4: busted in a week. They had chosen to let's.
Speaker 3: Do a deep dive on something here in the book,
Speaker 3: and I hope I have the name right, Terry Stacey.
Speaker 3: Apparently see residue here, and this is something when it
Speaker 3: goes back to some kind of an explosi of detonation,
Speaker 3: you know, outside the aircraft to bring it down. Not
Speaker 3: to be a scholar and explosives, but the point is
Speaker 3: RDX p ETN explosive residue, these components of semtech or
Speaker 3: otherwise simply known as plastic explosives. But the difference is
Speaker 3: semtech and C four are not the same thing because
Speaker 3: C four does not contain PETN. Why do I know this?
Speaker 3: I'll tell the audience another time on that. But this
Speaker 3: is interesting. What's the story with this? Terry Stacey? Was
Speaker 3: there indeed material that she actually got from a seatback?
Speaker 3: Or am I just a off measure on this one?
Speaker 4: In fact, that's where James Sanders got involved in Terry Staces. Okay,
Speaker 4: Terry Stacey. You know James Sanders' wife Elizabeth was the
Speaker 4: trainer for C due she knew had to fight attendance
Speaker 4: on board and it was very They went to one
Speaker 4: memorial after another and one of them. Elizabeth introduces Terry
Speaker 4: to her husband, Jim was an investigative reporter, and the
Speaker 4: first thing that Terry says to Jim is there's, uh,
Speaker 4: there's a cover up going on, and Terry's working inside
Speaker 4: the investigation, so he's feeding information to Jim. And then
Speaker 4: Terry says, there is a residue streak across like three aisles,
Speaker 4: just those three aisles, a reddish resident strike against the seatbacks.
Speaker 4: So Jim says, you know, scrape them off and I'll
Speaker 4: have it tested in an independent lab because the FBI
Speaker 4: was concealing the results the testing of what this was.
Speaker 4: And so Terry does to scrape it off, and he can't.
Speaker 4: He doesn't scrape, So it just takes a couple of
Speaker 4: chunks of foam rubber, I mean, little timmy chunks evidence.
Speaker 4: Sanders yea, and Sanders hasn't tested and they've proved consistent
Speaker 4: with rocket fuel residue. And now here's the kicker, is
Speaker 4: that what they got him on. You refer earlier to
Speaker 4: that that crash in the Everglades. A couple of months
Speaker 4: prior after that crash, they passed a lassaying if you're
Speaker 4: a if you're a scavenger an airplane site, you can
Speaker 4: be arrested. Well, they arrested the Sanders and Stacey for
Speaker 4: stealing airplane points, meaning these little pinches of foam rubber,
Speaker 4: and the fact that Jim was an investigative reporter was
Speaker 4: not allowed into evidence. So they went to trial and
Speaker 4: convicted them. And so that's that's how bad, how desperate
Speaker 4: they were to conceal the truth of this. Yeah, Jim
Speaker 4: took a piece of chunk to the IAS contact at CBS,
Speaker 4: who was young Christine emergency great getting it the truth,
Speaker 4: and they turned her down. Absolutely. Not only they turned
Speaker 4: her down, they called into the ci FBI and had
Speaker 4: to confiscate the trunk of phone number.
Speaker 3: Yeah, amazing. So the NTSB starts the investigation and other
Speaker 3: clamps come down. FBI gets it, and then it moves
Speaker 3: on to the CIA with bigger clamps. Right, and then
Speaker 3: we see a video that shows an ascending part, the
Speaker 3: front nose, the big bulgy part. If you're not a
Speaker 3: seven forty seven, since this is theater of the mind,
Speaker 3: you'll have to check it out and look at a picture.
Speaker 3: If you've never seen one of these aircraft. And that's
Speaker 3: what we're supposed to believe a center fuel tank ignition
Speaker 3: right outside fifteen thousand feet above the ocean, very close
Speaker 3: to the shore, on its way across the ocean. An
Speaker 3: amazing story the video if you keep watching it, I
Speaker 3: keep repeating this because it's I think good for effect.
Speaker 3: The announcer of that keeps talking about center fueld tank,
Speaker 3: center fuel tank, center fuel tank. No airplane. Look, if
Speaker 3: you look at physics, obviously the nose of a seven
Speaker 3: forty seven that piece breaks off. It's not doesn't have
Speaker 3: retrorockets to keep it going up in the sky, not
Speaker 3: at all. I got to bring this up in the
Speaker 3: limited time we have, and I just want to remind
Speaker 3: everybody if you want to join us in this theater
Speaker 3: of the mind, the Doctor Sky Experience one eight hundred
Speaker 3: eight four eight nine two two two still time, and
Speaker 3: we hope that you'll be part of our excursion. Here,
Speaker 3: our adventure. Here's the story. I'd like you to talk
Speaker 3: more about. It's interesting an article that you've written back
Speaker 3: in June. What John Gotti knows about twa flight eight
Speaker 3: hundred Wow, what a headline. Talk about it for a minute.
Speaker 4: Yeah, it was. This is an interesting moment of my life.
Speaker 4: I had gotten an email from the arts and entertainment
Speaker 4: producers who were wanted to do a documentary, and I
Speaker 4: neglected to look at the title of the documentary they
Speaker 4: were working on, right, So I they said, we'll call
Speaker 4: you if someone call you on your Thursday or whatever.
Speaker 4: And I said sure. So they call on time. Call
Speaker 4: comes in and I said, Jack Cashle here just like
Speaker 4: you know, casually. And the voice on the other end says,
Speaker 4: this is John Gotti.
Speaker 3: And so I would have said, yeah, really, and I
Speaker 3: try another.
Speaker 4: Name and I and I said to myself and I
Speaker 4: actually I thought, ay, John Gotti, you know, And I said, hey, John,
Speaker 4: tell me a little bit about yourself.
Speaker 3: A good way to go, Jack, there you go.
Speaker 4: And then he explains that he is the son of
Speaker 4: the Dapper Dawn John Gotti, and we have a point
Speaker 4: of common interest. And I think, what, I'm not going
Speaker 4: to name the guy in question. I don't want to
Speaker 4: get you know, well, let's just say that we'll call
Speaker 4: him Agent X. Okay at the ie Agent Agent X.
Speaker 4: He believes God. He believes was after a god. He
Speaker 4: gets out of prison in ninety nine. He asked if
Speaker 4: his father if it's okay if he gets out of
Speaker 4: the family business, and your father says yeah. Father dies
Speaker 4: a few years later and John goes back to just
Speaker 4: trying to make a living as a suburban Long Island father.
Speaker 4: He got a family, who's you know, did they deserve
Speaker 4: a father is not in prison. And then about fifteen
Speaker 4: or so years later, Agent X decides to bring a
Speaker 4: Gotti back into court on a charge like a racketeering
Speaker 4: charger about twenty years old. In fact, this story is
Speaker 4: told in the movie Gotti. The stars John Travoltascotti, if
Speaker 4: anyone wants to check that out. And so it turns
Speaker 4: out that he believes that Agent X was the same
Speaker 4: guy who falsified the second FBI three two one. The
Speaker 4: very best eye witness I Witness seventy three. And let
Speaker 4: me just introduce this. As I opened my book talking
Speaker 4: about Witness seventy three and about I think it was
Speaker 4: two thousand and nine, we're talking thirteen years after the crash.
Speaker 4: She calls me in my office and says, Jack, this
Speaker 4: is Witness seventy three. Do you know who I am?
Speaker 4: I said, yeah, upside down Nike swoosh, and she goes,
Speaker 4: you're right. And because she had the best perspective of anyone.
Speaker 4: She's an aviation professional. She saw a bulk of missile,
Speaker 4: she saw the plane, she saw the missile hit the
Speaker 4: plane perfectly broke out. The deconstruction of the airplane before
Speaker 4: the debris field confirmed what you saw. And I said,
Speaker 4: but tell me about the second interview seventy three, because
Speaker 4: in that second interview, you know, you'd say that you
Speaker 4: were drinking Long Island iced teas, that you know you
Speaker 4: maybe didn't see what you thought you saw, and that
Speaker 4: they wrote you off. She goes, well, let me start
Speaker 4: by telling you I don't know what a Long Island
Speaker 4: iced tea is, right, And I said, but I said, well,
Speaker 4: could it have been another drink? And she said no,
Speaker 4: because I don't drink at all. And then she said
Speaker 4: there's something you want to know. I said, what's that?
Speaker 4: She goes, there was no second interview, And then I
Speaker 4: said to her, you know you are one of at
Speaker 4: least four key eyewitnesses for whom either the FBI or
Speaker 4: the CIA manufactured a second interview to discredit your first interview.
Speaker 3: That's amazing.
Speaker 4: Now, the name on the three O two it was
Speaker 4: dropped into her file is agent X. And uh, and
Speaker 4: I know that Agent X was on the missile team,
Speaker 4: and he was the one fighting to sustain the CIA's interpretation.
Speaker 4: John Gutty believes that Agent X was manufacturing evidence against
Speaker 4: him as well to bring him back to court four trials.
Speaker 4: Agent X pushed through four miss trials and finally the
Speaker 4: judges said stop this. You know you're you're trying to
Speaker 4: convict an honest man here and so but you know,
Speaker 4: a guy obviously been thinking about that, and so we
Speaker 4: talked about a half hour. I was impressed by how
Speaker 4: much he knew about t W A eight.
Speaker 3: Hundred amazing story. That is incredible, you know, And again
Speaker 3: I know who Agent X is, and obviously for the sensitivity,
Speaker 3: we're not going to reveal that. And I don't blame
Speaker 3: you because that is rather the to who knows. I mean,
Speaker 3: that goes deeper, sure than we want to go to
Speaker 3: right now. And I respect that anonymity on your part.
Speaker 3: But this is interesting what I look at before we
Speaker 3: go to the break here in just a couple of
Speaker 3: moments again in the heartbreak, one of the best after
Speaker 3: reading your book and checking this out again, and I
Speaker 3: appreciate this. Mike Wire, the bridge worker, Yeah, he seems
Speaker 3: to be one am I right in this check. He
Speaker 3: seems to be, in my opinion, one of the most
Speaker 3: credible of all the witnesses because of where he was,
Speaker 3: what he saw. Talk about Mike Wire for a moment.
Speaker 4: Yeah. First of all, Mike and I have become great
Speaker 4: friends over the years because we've worked on this stuff together.
Speaker 4: In fact, I'll see him next week when I'm going
Speaker 4: down the Jersey Shore.
Speaker 3: There you go.
Speaker 4: He he lives in Bucks County. Yeah, he was working
Speaker 4: on a bridge in West Hampton that night and he
Speaker 4: feels the bridge shake from what sounds like an explosion.
Speaker 4: He looks up, he captures everything, He sees everything, and
Speaker 4: you know, the plane comes up. He satches to come
Speaker 4: up from behind the houses on the other side of
Speaker 4: the canal there, and he watches an arc over the
Speaker 4: same you know, first boom, boom, boom, third explosion, plane
Speaker 4: falls out of the sky. Perfect eye witness. And he's
Speaker 4: an army that, you know, no nonsense guy, mechanically inclined.
Speaker 4: I mean, so he's not prone to fancy. And so
Speaker 4: the FBI interviews him, he says what he saw, and
Speaker 4: then the CIA intervenes. Now and this is when they
Speaker 4: see and this is all in the documents that I have.
Speaker 4: The CIA is explaining now to the NTSP why Mike
Speaker 4: Weier wasn't a credible eyewitness. He was CIA witness number one.
Speaker 4: He was that important. He goes, well, you know, you know,
Speaker 4: he told us the first time he thought he saw
Speaker 4: come up from behind the houses. But when we talked
Speaker 4: him the second time, he said that it was about
Speaker 4: twenty degrees above the horizon where he first saw the
Speaker 4: you know, the missile. But that's exactly where quite one
Speaker 4: hundred was at the time, So what he saw really
Speaker 4: was not an ascending missile, but rather the noseless airplane
Speaker 4: arcing up.
Speaker 3: And Michael, Wow, what a distortion of real, right.
Speaker 4: And then when I and here's where they went wrong.
Speaker 4: When the FBI was redacting the names off the three
Speaker 4: oh two's, they missed wire. The person redacting it read
Speaker 4: it as like a regular word, the w ir right,
Speaker 4: and so the people at Accuracy and ME were able
Speaker 4: to trace Mike down. And then once they did, then
Speaker 4: they realized there was no second you know, the guy,
Speaker 4: the CIA guy seemed to have improvised it on the spot.
Speaker 4: Trying to explain to the NTSB because unlike with witness
Speaker 4: seventy three. They never put a second three h two
Speaker 4: into Mike's file. There was only one as.
Speaker 3: The first one. I'm mission of the CIA whate to deceive.
Speaker 3: And obviously this person's true testimony is either never secondarily interviewed,
Speaker 3: he's not second early interviewed, or totally distorted from the fact.
Speaker 3: But here we go Witness six forty nine, Joseph del Goddam.
Speaker 3: He sees something. He's credible according to your reports. You
Speaker 3: see Witness two forty four and de Cairo at De
Speaker 3: Carlo sees a missile like object hit the airplane. How
Speaker 3: much more credible can that be? But ladies and gentlemen,
Speaker 3: we're going to have to take that momentary pause that
Speaker 3: refreshes and as we go to this hard break at
Speaker 3: the bottom of the hour, what would you do, Jack
Speaker 3: in the theater of the mind. You'd go to the
Speaker 3: snack bar right and hopefully enjoy just a few moments
Speaker 3: while we have an intermission. But seriously, folks, join us
Speaker 3: here on the Doctor Sky experience great guests as you
Speaker 3: tell us. If you'd like to email me, it's simply
Speaker 3: this Drsky at WABC radio dot com. And many thanks
Speaker 3: to owner and operator John Katzimatitis, forgive me the privileged
Speaker 3: honor of sitting behind this microphone. And from the executive
Speaker 3: staff Chad Lopez, obviously a radio station in the know
Speaker 3: and on the grow. Will continue with your questions and
Speaker 3: comments and much more here on the mystery of tw
Speaker 3: eight hundred, the crash, the cover up, and the conspiracy
Speaker 3: our special guest Jack Cashall we will be right back.
Speaker 2: The Doctor Sky Experience entertaining and informative.
Speaker 1: On the Red Apple Podcast Network.
Speaker 2: The Doctor Sky Experience is on the air seventy seven WABC.
Speaker 2: Now here's Doctor Sky.
Speaker 14: Hi, this is Wayne New and you are listening to
Speaker 14: the Doctor Sky Show. Always remember your eyes to the sky.
Speaker 14: Bless you.
Speaker 3: Number of miles flown for the seven forty seven fleet
Speaker 3: to day approximately fifty seven billion miles space travel equivalent
Speaker 3: one hundred and thirty seven thousand round trips to the Moon,
Speaker 3: and the total estimated number of passages flown to date
Speaker 3: five point nine billion souls, almost eighty percent of the
Speaker 3: current world population. We continue with our special guests. All
Speaker 3: guests are special here on the Doctor Sky Experience in
Speaker 3: what we call the Theater of the Mind. Jack Cashell, author
Speaker 3: of many books. We concentrate on the tragedy thirty years later,
Speaker 3: no real answers to twa eight hundred, the crash, the
Speaker 3: cover up, and the conspiracy jack amazing and would like
Speaker 3: to excuse me, have you back in the future on
Speaker 3: this subject as more information comes to the forefront. Let's
Speaker 3: talk about some of these theories and you can dispel.
Speaker 3: You dispel them as we get them. Sure, bomb on board,
Speaker 3: no real credible evidence. Excuse me for anything in that regard, right,
Speaker 3: that's been discounted. It was a big theory.
Speaker 4: However, you know what's interesting is that for the first
Speaker 4: month of the investigation, the FBI steered the New York
Speaker 4: Times into believing it was a bomb. So on August
Speaker 4: twenty third, now we're five weeks in the paduline above
Speaker 4: the poll New York Times Prime evidence found that explosive
Speaker 4: device on board Desroy's airplane. Next to it was like
Speaker 4: Clinton signs welfare reform though, so one of those headlines
Speaker 4: that ago, and it was the bomb one. But the
Speaker 4: bomb was less scary than missile, and you could control
Speaker 4: for a bomb, you know, it could do better screening
Speaker 4: or whatever. But then they switched. They realized that they
Speaker 4: improvised this whole thing. Then they realized didn't even need
Speaker 4: a bomb. They could just call it a mechanical failure,
Speaker 4: which they did about a month later, and then they
Speaker 4: went with mechanical failure thereafter.
Speaker 3: Amazing, What about this the man pad shoulder fired missile
Speaker 3: allegedly out on the ocean somewhere, terrorist boat, terrorist missile
Speaker 3: to this as far as something hitting.
Speaker 4: Not in terms of the missile taking out the airplane. However,
Speaker 4: you know, I was on a show yesterday with Al Francis,
Speaker 4: a Tebury captain. He believe, and it's not a far
Speaker 4: fetched theory at all, that the missile that that the
Speaker 4: Navy fired was fired at not at a drone, but
Speaker 4: at either a a missile fire from a boat in
Speaker 4: the in the Atlantic there or at it, you know,
Speaker 4: or at a a explosive blade in aircraft designed to
Speaker 4: take out seven forty seven you know. And so in
Speaker 4: other words, he's saying that the Navy did not miss fire,
Speaker 4: they fired at this other object, and there are the
Speaker 4: aging systems are designed to do that to take out
Speaker 4: the other missiles. Sure, but that you know, it tracked
Speaker 4: onto t to grade hundred and blew it up. That's
Speaker 4: not out of the question at all. But we both
Speaker 4: agree on ol Francis and I were no one else
Speaker 4: follows it more closely than we had agreed. There was
Speaker 4: a naval missile that took out t de Grade hundred.
Speaker 3: Well, just to set the record straight here again RPG
Speaker 3: seven's which obviously rocket propelled grenades. That's a different story,
Speaker 3: much lower obviously ability to shoot in distance. But even
Speaker 3: these man pads like they have today even more advanced
Speaker 3: than then. So are you're saying, I mean, am I
Speaker 3: hearing it clear that it's more than likely that's not
Speaker 3: something that they would fire shoulder fired from a boat
Speaker 3: off the ocean. It more than likely has to be
Speaker 3: a much more powerful rocket because from what I'm eating,
Speaker 3: man pads don't necessarily run. And again this is back
Speaker 3: in nineteen ninety six, all the way up to fifteen
Speaker 3: thousand feet or maybe I'm wrong, Yeah, I would.
Speaker 1: Say, I know you're right.
Speaker 4: I mean, it's arguably, I mean, maybe under the right
Speaker 4: flooky circumstances, it could do it. It's actually a thirteen
Speaker 4: five or whatever. But you know, I don't believe. And
Speaker 4: this is kind of interesting because it goes back to
Speaker 4: the Iran factor. He believes that. I think, as I
Speaker 4: interpret him, ride that it was a state sponsored terrorist
Speaker 4: act on a more powerful missile than a manpad. That is,
Speaker 4: you know, it is probably a stable boat launched missile.
Speaker 4: And you have to remember that eight years earlier, we
Speaker 4: accidentally blew a a Aramian air bus out of the
Speaker 4: sky and killed three hundred.
Speaker 3: I remember the day. It sounded like it was yesterday.
Speaker 3: That's a sad thing.
Speaker 4: Yeah, So, I mean they had their reasons. I suppose
Speaker 4: two days before the Olympics, you know. And it's face,
Speaker 4: we've been at war with Iran for forty seven years.
Speaker 4: People who want to make believe that it's not true
Speaker 4: are denying the evidence. Here's what we also know is
Speaker 4: that thinking it was a terrorist attack, the people in
Speaker 4: the situation room, before they got all the information, were
Speaker 4: contemplating what they called the Eisenhower option, which was a
Speaker 4: massive missile attack on Iran. They believed that Iran was
Speaker 4: the culprit A month.
Speaker 3: Back then, I mean, tensions were tight. I mean, obviously
Speaker 3: we can go back into history and look at the
Speaker 3: capture of our Americans over there with the original call
Speaker 3: a month earlier.
Speaker 4: We do know that Iran was responsible for the bombing
Speaker 4: of the Cobar Towers, an American base in Saudi Arabia,
Speaker 4: killing killing nineteen Americans. So it was about two weeks
Speaker 4: after the incident, Clinton been interview of this historian named
Speaker 4: Taylor Branch in which he told him at that time
Speaker 4: and Branch would promise not to publish any of this
Speaker 4: for ten years that it was he believed it was
Speaker 4: an Iranian missile that took out the plane.
Speaker 3: Totally amazing. Let's continue with the callers. We appreciate their patience.
Speaker 3: Let's now go to line four Walt Iran and Ynkers
Speaker 3: with Jack Cashell.
Speaker 15: Good morning to you, evenings or good morning gentlemen. I
Speaker 15: somehow have a minor connection with both tw eight hundred
Speaker 15: and nine to eleven as a naval reservist with dual
Speaker 15: membership in the State Naval Militia, I was got active
Speaker 15: duty call up to go to a furtherheadlong alan at
Speaker 15: the National Guard Armory where the Naval Militia had responsed,
Speaker 15: basically taking charge of the debris as it was brought
Speaker 15: on board from the US Navy. And we had a
Speaker 15: briefing by Colonel Intenni, who was the commander at the armory,
Speaker 15: and basically told us that whatever speculation ideas you might
Speaker 15: have is just keep your mouth shut. But I do
Speaker 15: remember on the night that the plane got shot down,
Speaker 15: there was always many reports of a missile going up.
Speaker 15: So fast forward that to September eleventh, and I was
Speaker 15: teaching in the one of the suburbs and the security
Speaker 15: guard comes in and tells me, hey, Walt plane gots
Speaker 15: hit the World Trade Center, And without even thinking, I
Speaker 15: said f Ford in front of my class.
Speaker 3: Bin Laden.
Speaker 15: Turns out that we had some neighbors across the street
Speaker 15: from where I live who were of shall we say,
Speaker 15: Middle Eastern descent. They suddenly left the house that they
Speaker 15: were renting on September the tenth, and of course well
Speaker 15: made wherever they went to. And it turns out that
Speaker 15: I called a local police person I know, and I
Speaker 15: got home from school and state police, local police, FBI
Speaker 15: checked that house out, and according to a neighbor over
Speaker 15: discussing the the investigators there said that they had found
Speaker 15: plans in that rental house to blow up George Washington Bridge.
Speaker 15: So my speculation is that bin Laden or Iranians or
Speaker 15: somebody said, look, we blow up their plane. The Americans
Speaker 15: do nothing we blow up their embassy. With the Americans
Speaker 15: do nothing. What do we have to do to get
Speaker 15: their attention? Let's blow up World Trade Center.
Speaker 3: You know something, well, you bring up really first. Thanks
Speaker 3: for your service, but in limited time here. It also
Speaker 3: reminds me, right, Jack, of Operation Bojinka use airplanes as
Speaker 3: weapons of destruction. All brings up some conversational points. Go ahead, Jack,
Speaker 3: I'm sorry to catch yeah.
Speaker 4: In Operation Bojinka, which was KSM. Ramsey yusef operation, was
Speaker 4: busted in Manila, I think in ninety five. They had
Speaker 4: plans to do two things. One the most ambitious one
Speaker 4: was the plant bombs on like a dozen airliners going
Speaker 4: across the Pacific and they were all going to bowl
Speaker 4: at the same time. The other one, a little more practical,
Speaker 4: was to charter a plane, take a charter plane and
Speaker 4: stuff it with explosives and attack an American target like
Speaker 4: I don't know which. The targets weren't designated, but they could.
Speaker 3: Like a three nine to eleven right with commercial airlines,
Speaker 3: that's right.
Speaker 4: Or they could have just tried to do it to
Speaker 4: take out of a commercial airline like I said, forty seven. So,
Speaker 4: but Bojinka was real. Ramsey Useef was imprisoned at the
Speaker 4: Metropolitan Communication a Correction Center in Manhattan at that time.
Speaker 4: And khoalie Chik Muhammad, you know the I know other
Speaker 4: mastermind was deeply involved in that as well. So they
Speaker 4: all had bad actors out there.
Speaker 3: Absolutely. And I gather Ramsey Yusef, I think something. He said,
Speaker 3: I guess and tell me if I'm right on this.
Speaker 3: I think I read it somewhere in the back of
Speaker 3: my mind. I remember the first World Trade Center bombing.
Speaker 3: They get him, and then all of a sudden he says, yeah,
Speaker 3: he said, we didn't take the buildings down this time,
Speaker 3: but we will.
Speaker 4: Effect You're actually right, because what they did is the
Speaker 4: in the ninety three World Trades Inner bombing, in which
Speaker 4: I think about a half dozen people were killed. But
Speaker 4: their goal was to have one building topple over into
Speaker 4: the other, right, and they made some mistakes. For one thing,
Speaker 4: they rented the car and gave their real IDs when
Speaker 4: they rented the van, right, and they were able to
Speaker 4: bust them quickly. But the other thing is that the
Speaker 4: place they parked the car, I parked their van, but
Speaker 4: he supposes was parked in the more strategic place. They
Speaker 4: might have even succeeded in what they were hoping to do,
Speaker 4: they were totally disappointed at the outcome.
Speaker 3: Absolutely, and using aircraft as weapons of war is certainly
Speaker 3: something our government knew about for quite a long time,
Speaker 3: and not to be able stake a dart on somebody
Speaker 3: in any administration. I think the Clinton administration knew about this,
Speaker 3: even if they didn't act. Yes, the Bush administration in
Speaker 3: their daily brief I.
Speaker 4: Know from Blizz Patterson because he carried the documents around
Speaker 4: that Clinton had seen the Burjinka plans and signed off
Speaker 4: on him. And personally, I think that's what Sandy Berger
Speaker 4: was looking for when he risked his career in his
Speaker 4: very freedom to pill for documents from the National Archives.
Speaker 3: Well, it goes deeper than that, I guess, and I'm
Speaker 3: just remembering this. Sandy Berger, of course allegedly or factually
Speaker 3: steals government documents, maybe on this particular episode of t
Speaker 3: W eight hundred and let me get specific, in his
Speaker 3: underwear and socks. Is that a fair assessment?
Speaker 4: Oh my god, out our house to stuck him down there,
Speaker 4: stuck him down there, took him back, took them back
Speaker 4: in a minutely, took them back through the department and
Speaker 4: shredded them and cover up, cover up the original reginal
Speaker 4: state secret original documents, the do OJ nominally under George
Speaker 4: Bushford being run by Democratic lifers. I recommend a ten
Speaker 4: thousand dollars fine to that act.
Speaker 3: That's crazy, Jack. We're up against the break. I hate
Speaker 3: to cut people short, but you know, in the cay,
Speaker 3: in the in the space time continuum, the clock rules.
Speaker 3: We'll be right back more with Jack Cashell and Lene who,
Speaker 3: Eduardo and Tampa. Stay there if you can, because we'll
Speaker 3: get you in the air, and Kevin in Long Island,
Speaker 3: anybody else will try to get you into the top
Speaker 3: of the hour. Will conclude with what we really think,
Speaker 3: from the author's perspective, Jack Cashell, what really happened on
Speaker 3: that date back in nineteen ninety six here on the
Speaker 3: Doctor Sky Experience.
Speaker 2: We'll be right back The Doctor Scott Experience entertaining and informative.
Speaker 1: On the Red Apple Podcast Network.
Speaker 2: The Doctor Sky Experience is on the air seventy seven WABC.
Speaker 2: Now here's Doctor Sky.
Speaker 14: You don't know who this is.
Speaker 16: This is Ada Lewis, better known as Grandpa Munster. And
Speaker 16: whenever I'm in that lovely city Phoenix. You know what
Speaker 16: I do. I listen to doctor Sky, you know what,
Speaker 16: because I want to keep my head above the clouds.
Speaker 3: In memory about Lewis, a good friend of mine and
Speaker 3: many of you. Forty eight minutes after the hour, we
Speaker 3: continue with Jack Cashall equally important are the people who
Speaker 3: are on Let's go to line number two, ed Wado
Speaker 3: and Tampa. You're run with Jack Cashell.
Speaker 17: Good morning, yeah, doctor Sky and Jacob thank you for
Speaker 17: sake of my car. A couple of things here. I
Speaker 17: don't know if you think these are realistic points. First,
Speaker 17: regarding nine to eleven, I think some of these people
Speaker 17: that were in Florida didn't want to learn how to
Speaker 17: land planes. And how reallystick is it to have lasers
Speaker 17: on all these planes? Your environment is a new medical
Speaker 17: company that was doing I just saw this on sixty
Speaker 17: minutes testing on drones, and I've seen lasers shot out
Speaker 17: of the ships, the Navy ships. So why in twenty
Speaker 17: twenty six we don't have lasers on airplanes?
Speaker 3: Interesting? There you go.
Speaker 4: No, that's a good question. I can't answer that. But
Speaker 4: by the way, my grandchildren live in Tampa. Love this city.
Speaker 4: I get there eight times a year.
Speaker 3: Probably beautiful, Okay.
Speaker 4: Yeah, No, I don't I can't answer that intelligently. Edward right,
Speaker 4: I don't know.
Speaker 3: Okay, thank you Edward. I always appreciate you. On the
Speaker 3: Doctor's Guy Experience. Let's go to line number five, Kevin'sman
Speaker 3: Patient and Long Island. You're on with Jack Cashall.
Speaker 8: Good morning to you, Good morning, great show.
Speaker 3: I love you.
Speaker 18: On Sunday with Doctor Casman Titis. I live on Long Island.
Speaker 18: I've talked to enough people. That was definitely a missile.
Speaker 18: Was it a shoulder fired? Was it on purpose? Was
Speaker 18: it an accident? But more importantly, sir, I do request
Speaker 18: your scientific explanation. How is the plane possible a TWA
Speaker 18: seven forty seven to go more than five hundred miles
Speaker 18: an hour at a ground level? Where was the plane
Speaker 18: the Pentagon.
Speaker 6: Hitting the Pentagon? Where are the engines? Where is your
Speaker 6: scientific explanations for nine to eleven? Please? I know this
Speaker 6: is a sensitive subject, but how is it possible that
Speaker 6: in Pennsylvania you don't see the plane? Where was the
Speaker 6: passengers in the luggage in the Pentagon? Show us the plane,
Speaker 6: forget about the alien planes. Show us the plane going.
Speaker 3: Across that lawn.
Speaker 18: Believe that a plane hit the Pentagon where's the evidence?
Speaker 6: The evidence?
Speaker 3: You're right? Physics, Kevin, You're so right. I've watched this
Speaker 3: and how many times have we seen an alleged video
Speaker 3: of the flight that hits the Pentagon? You're right, I
Speaker 3: mean you see the cold that it made. Where's the aluminum?
Speaker 3: Where where's the engines? As you describe? But jack your
Speaker 3: thoughts on that, because they are these great mysteries, I mean,
Speaker 3: it's incredible.
Speaker 4: Tell us more, Jackie, Well, I'm gonna I'm going to
Speaker 4: disappoint people here because I'm so speak conspiracy theorists. But
Speaker 4: the one guy I trust, the guy named General Ben Parton.
Speaker 4: He was the dissenting voice in Oklahoma City, Okay. He
Speaker 4: risked his career to say a truck bomb did not
Speaker 4: cause all this damage. He, however, was at the Pentagon
Speaker 4: that day and he said, I had body parts in
Speaker 4: my hand, I had uniforms in my hand. Anyone who
Speaker 4: tells me the plane did not hit this building doesn't
Speaker 4: know what they're talking about. And now I trust him
Speaker 4: Ben Pardon over someone else's opinion, because I know he's
Speaker 4: capable of going out an edge to tell the truth.
Speaker 3: I know. It's so sad because the flight that did
Speaker 3: hit the Pentagon as we're talking about here. Obviously there
Speaker 3: is some speculation out there where are all the parts?
Speaker 3: But I guess when you're traveling that fast and you
Speaker 3: hit something solid like that, there's probably not mus left
Speaker 3: at all. As you see the damage from the aerial
Speaker 3: photography of that. It's crazy. But Kevin, thank you. We
Speaker 3: bring up all kinds of different opinions, and we certainly
Speaker 3: respect everybody as long as we talk about it right
Speaker 3: and what we consider to be critical thinking in dialogue.
Speaker 3: But let me ask you this before the clock runs
Speaker 3: out your theory as we get to the end of
Speaker 3: the show, what did happen in Jack Cashall's opinion here
Speaker 3: with ZWA eight hundred. What's the latest information that you
Speaker 3: could tell this audience and what caused this at least
Speaker 3: at this point in time.
Speaker 4: Well, I would say the smoking gun for me is
Speaker 4: the t of the PS three. It was the P
Speaker 4: three rather, it was flying directly overhead flight Orion, and
Speaker 4: it was functioning as kind of an a wax that
Speaker 4: it was this coordinating information among the members of this
Speaker 4: battle group, which included both submarines and cruisers, so you
Speaker 4: know they would communicate to the P three, send the
Speaker 4: signal back down to the other entities. It was right there.
Speaker 4: It wasn't there for a terrorist, you know. And back
Speaker 4: after the event. Immediately after the event, it flew down
Speaker 4: the South New Jersey to do a routine sub hunt.
Speaker 4: You know, does that No, it was there for the
Speaker 4: sake of coordinating a missile test. This the really sharpest guy,
Speaker 4: and this is the guy who's led to suit quick
Speaker 4: versus raytheon, a physicist named Tom Stalkup who's been working
Speaker 4: this case for thirty years. He and I come to
Speaker 4: the exact same conclusion from different avenue technical skills meet
Speaker 4: from deducing information from all the various variables involved.
Speaker 3: So in summary, it's one of ours, a missile with
Speaker 3: a misguided situation. There looked at this aircraft or somehow
Speaker 3: it was you know, I did, and somehow they didn't
Speaker 3: recognize it was a commercial airliner. And for whatever who knows?
Speaker 3: Beyond that, you've given us your opinion. Let's try to
Speaker 3: go to one more caller before we go ahead and
Speaker 3: close out the show line Number two step in New Jersey.
Speaker 3: You'll have to be brief, but you're on the year
Speaker 3: with Jack Cashall's Byead.
Speaker 19: Yeah, Hello, doctor scuy And here's my comment for the guests.
Speaker 19: Pierre Salinger. As a result of this right and his theory,
Speaker 19: he went from being the press secretary for the great
Speaker 19: JFK and overnight when he came forward with his theory
Speaker 19: that it was an iron missile, they savaged him, me
Speaker 19: and the Clinton administration. He was never the same after that.
Speaker 19: What do you think about that?
Speaker 4: You're absolutely right. They ruined his career. In November of
Speaker 4: nineteen ninety six, before anyone had settled on the final theory.
Speaker 4: What happened? The New York Times ran four articles mocking
Speaker 4: Pierre Sallenger with headlines like, Hey, Pierre, is that a
Speaker 4: Masonic flag on the moon. That's a real headline. Before that,
Speaker 4: you're right, he was the legendary press secretary for JFK.
Speaker 4: He had been a secretary, I mean, a senator from California,
Speaker 4: and he was a widely respected international public relationions consultant.
Speaker 4: After that, he was put out the pastors.
Speaker 3: Well, Steve, thank you for your commentary. You're spot on
Speaker 3: on that. And even more important than anything I could
Speaker 3: ever say, is the tribute a memorial to the two
Speaker 3: hundred and thirty souls that perished on that night some
Speaker 3: thirty years ago, and that the families relatives that still
Speaker 3: live with this in their mind. Again, Jack, I really
Speaker 3: appreciate you twa eight under it, behind the cover up
Speaker 3: and conspiracy. I'd like to do this in the future
Speaker 3: with you. You're such a broad based author. One book
Speaker 3: if you describe it, and I know it's not fair
Speaker 3: if we have them in it or so Ashley, the
Speaker 3: Untold Story of the Women of January sixth, just give
Speaker 3: us a quick look see and we'll have you on
Speaker 3: as long as you would agree to talk more about
Speaker 3: these books about American exceptionalism and the mysteries that we
Speaker 3: need to hear about.
Speaker 4: Well, you know, in that book, I covered ten women
Speaker 4: who went to Washington. I decover why they went, what
Speaker 4: the day was like, what they experienced just in quick summer,
Speaker 4: and I just chose them almost at random. Amazingly, all
Speaker 4: ten agree. I can't say that all the eight of
Speaker 4: the ten who lived agreed to cooperate with me, I
Speaker 4: said Ashley Aboubott's mother. Two of those women were killed
Speaker 4: by the queas and the other eight of the other eight,
Speaker 4: all of them were incarcerated, and the worst crime any
Speaker 4: of them committed was to break a window, and that
Speaker 4: woman got born is in prison. The other eight all
Speaker 4: just wandered around inside the capital saint prayers or taking
Speaker 4: snab selfies, and they all were incarcerated.
Speaker 3: Well other than and other words that those that perished.
Speaker 4: Yeah, yeah, some of them were still in prison when
Speaker 4: Trump took over and part in it. But two of
Speaker 4: the women who were killed rose and boiler and asked ababbit,
Speaker 4: and the other eight all went to prison. And when
Speaker 4: you look at the nature of their crime and the
Speaker 4: time they had to serve, you see that there was
Speaker 4: one of them. Is the greatest mass injustice on American
Speaker 4: soil since Japanese internment.
Speaker 3: Wow, powerful Jack, will have to have you back. But
Speaker 3: I'm going to get a yes or no from you.
Speaker 3: Was that fine by you that we can do this again?
Speaker 4: I hope it is a young Yeah, I mean it's
Speaker 4: a I have to do it at night where I
Speaker 4: forwards to stay up till two am.
Speaker 3: Appreciate it unless you fly to Hawaii and spend the
Speaker 3: time doing the interview for you.
Speaker 4: Yeah, no, all right, can't. I live in Kansas City.
Speaker 4: When I'm back in Kansas City, is only one.
Speaker 3: A will work it out, But I do. Thank you,
Speaker 3: Jack Cashell. Tell us again substack how do they get
Speaker 3: in touch with you and hopefully.
Speaker 4: Substack dot com. The best way to do it substect
Speaker 4: dot com and just look for Jack Cashell. I would
Speaker 4: say this, if you have very special information about eight hundred,
Speaker 4: you can go to my website cashal dot com and
Speaker 4: they'll say you had to contact me.
Speaker 3: I think that's great and I'm sure you'll get a
Speaker 3: lot of response because the mystery still continues here and
Speaker 3: we're religion honored to have you as a guest right here.
Speaker 3: So thank you. Blessings to you and everyone else who's
Speaker 3: called the Doctor Sky Experience as we talk about these
Speaker 3: great subjects that you tell us, ladies and gentlemen, that
Speaker 3: you're of interest, the subjects of astronomy, space, aviation, weather,
Speaker 3: celebrity guests, the stories of American exceptionalism, and what about
Speaker 3: the great mysteries fitting in with TWA eight hundred, the crash,
Speaker 3: the cover up, and the conspiracy. Thank you so much,
Speaker 3: Jack Cashell. We'll do it again, and blessings to you,
Speaker 3: you and your family. Thanks for being one boy well,
Speaker 3: thanks for having me. Boy's a pleasure, Ladies and gentlemen,
Speaker 3: don't forgets. Immediately after this show, stay tuned to the
Speaker 3: talk radio seventy seven w ABC for another side of
Speaker 3: Midnight with Lionel as he takes you into the early
Speaker 3: morning hours, just at the time that the sun is
Speaker 3: popping up. And don't forget we're in the dog days
Speaker 3: of summer. What the heck is that again? July three
Speaker 3: to August eleventh. Where do we get the name from.
Speaker 3: It's the rising of the brightest star in the heavens,
Speaker 3: called Sirius, the dog star. The ancient Egyptians use this
Speaker 3: and monitored that is their agricultural cycles. They call it
Speaker 3: the helical rising of serious hot, sultry days of summer.
Speaker 3: As you would expect, it has an astronomical connection. And
Speaker 3: we do appreciate our helmsman, both Bill and Jackson, for
Speaker 3: making sure that you get on the air that everybody
Speaker 3: can be heard clearly in the critical thinking and dialogue
Speaker 3: mannerisms of which we do the show, a show that
Speaker 3: we call the Doctor Sky Experience. Tomorrow we'll be talking
Speaker 3: with someone about the subject of consciousness, the Book of Heaven.
Speaker 3: An interesting woman, Ashley. She's going to be on our
Speaker 3: radio show and in hour number two We're gonna go
Speaker 3: aviation again and talk with an aviation legend, the great
Speaker 3: book author like Jack Cashell. This one Bill Jennie talking
Speaker 3: all about some of the mysteries of this new Air
Speaker 3: Force one and what happened when President Trump boarded the
Speaker 3: older one and not the new one. And also about
Speaker 3: American railroads, the history of great American exceptionalism. Stories you
Speaker 3: might want to know and didn't know. On The Doctor
Speaker 3: Sky Experience. Clear Sky is good health. We'll seek you
Speaker 3: enlist them twenty four hours.
Speaker 2: The Doctor Sky Experience entertaining and informative
Speaker 1: On the Red Apple Podcast Networks