WEBVTT 1 00:00:00.960 --> 00:00:02.640 Always look to the sky. 2 00:00:03.399 --> 00:00:09.880 The Doctor Sky Experience is on the air seventy seven WABC. 3 00:00:10.759 --> 00:00:13.800 Now Here's Doctor Sky. 4 00:00:14.720 --> 00:00:17.960 Welcome to your weekend from the powerhouse blow towards signal 5 00:00:18.000 --> 00:00:22.440 talk Radio seventy seven WABC and broadcasting from the center 6 00:00:22.480 --> 00:00:24.480 of the universe, New York City to the nation and 7 00:00:24.519 --> 00:00:28.800 the world. Welcome to another edition of the Doctor Sky Experience. 8 00:00:29.199 --> 00:00:31.760 If you're a first time listener, a show about the 9 00:00:31.760 --> 00:00:35.320 many mysteries from the realms of astronomy, space, aviation, weather, 10 00:00:35.719 --> 00:00:39.719 celebrity guests and stories of American exceptionalism. We love to 11 00:00:39.759 --> 00:00:41.600 call this show and you tell us you enjoy it 12 00:00:42.359 --> 00:00:45.479 a theater of the mind, a show where you can 13 00:00:45.479 --> 00:00:48.439 obviously learn something new each time we bring on very 14 00:00:48.439 --> 00:00:50.960 special guests. We love it in the form of critical 15 00:00:51.000 --> 00:00:53.359 thinking with dialogue, and you can get in and we 16 00:00:53.439 --> 00:00:56.479 hope you do early in and on the conversation at 17 00:00:56.479 --> 00:00:59.200 one eight hundred eight four eight nine two two two 18 00:00:59.759 --> 00:01:02.840 on eight hundred eight four eight W A B C 19 00:01:03.079 --> 00:01:05.400 of course, And while you're at it, why not download 20 00:01:05.439 --> 00:01:08.400 the WABC app, because as we welcome you into our 21 00:01:08.439 --> 00:01:10.840 theater of the mind, don't forget there are many other 22 00:01:10.920 --> 00:01:14.560 rooms to explore. And I'm confident, as many others will testify, 23 00:01:14.959 --> 00:01:18.120 that you'll be spending a lot of time why listening 24 00:01:18.159 --> 00:01:21.400 to the great commentary and great shows of the incredible 25 00:01:21.400 --> 00:01:24.799 hosts that are here on this powerhouse signal once again 26 00:01:24.879 --> 00:01:27.040 the phone number one eight hundred eight four eight nine 27 00:01:27.079 --> 00:01:30.120 two two two. And as we talk about this particular 28 00:01:30.120 --> 00:01:32.840 adventure this morning, something that's near and dear to so 29 00:01:32.959 --> 00:01:36.519 many people, the mystery of t WA eight hundred, what 30 00:01:36.640 --> 00:01:39.480 happened to that flight some thirty years ago July seventeenth, 31 00:01:39.519 --> 00:01:44.040 nineteen ninety six, Still searching for the truth. But also 32 00:01:44.120 --> 00:01:46.280 we'd like to welcome you to the dog days of summer, 33 00:01:46.599 --> 00:01:48.920 as if you needed a reminder from me. July three 34 00:01:49.079 --> 00:01:52.439 to August eleventh's classified as the dog days of summer. 35 00:01:52.519 --> 00:01:55.400 And you may be wondering why. It's the rising before 36 00:01:55.400 --> 00:01:57.120 the sun of the brightest star in the heavens. The 37 00:01:57.159 --> 00:02:00.879 star is serious, the dog star in the constellation Knus Major. 38 00:02:01.400 --> 00:02:04.719 So hot sultry days of summer obviously are here another 39 00:02:04.760 --> 00:02:07.480 great heat dome coming to the Midwest to affect some 40 00:02:07.599 --> 00:02:10.560 thirty three million people, and all this courtesy of a 41 00:02:10.599 --> 00:02:13.599 super strong El Nino. One of course, that not only 42 00:02:13.639 --> 00:02:16.319 here in this particular area of the United States, but 43 00:02:16.400 --> 00:02:19.599 affecting other parts of the world. The Eastern Pacific typhoon 44 00:02:19.599 --> 00:02:23.439 Bobby continues to pound the Marianas Islands. Just wait and 45 00:02:23.560 --> 00:02:26.759 see what's in store. The special show that we put 46 00:02:26.800 --> 00:02:29.800 together with you is about an author named Jack Cashell 47 00:02:30.360 --> 00:02:32.199 and many of his books. One of them will be 48 00:02:32.240 --> 00:02:35.120 talking about t WA eight hundred, the crash, the cover up, 49 00:02:35.360 --> 00:02:38.319 and the conspiracy. And many of you listening to this 50 00:02:38.479 --> 00:02:40.879 in the New York metro area, I'm sure we'll want 51 00:02:40.919 --> 00:02:44.360 to chime in and offer your explanation or your actual 52 00:02:44.439 --> 00:02:47.960 eye witness accounts of that very tragic event hard to 53 00:02:48.000 --> 00:02:52.439 believe some thirty years ago. Who's her guest, It's Jack Cashell. 54 00:02:52.520 --> 00:02:56.039 Independent writer and producer. Jack Cashell has written a dozen 55 00:02:56.080 --> 00:02:58.520 non fiction books and appeared on Sea SPAN's Book ten 56 00:02:59.120 --> 00:03:02.159 TV ten times. He also produced a score of feature 57 00:03:02.240 --> 00:03:06.599 length documentaries. Jack serves as executive editor of Ingram's Magazine. 58 00:03:06.719 --> 00:03:10.599 He writes regularly for American Thinker, American Spectator, and World 59 00:03:10.639 --> 00:03:14.360 Net Daily, and as all written for The Wall Street Journal, Fortune, 60 00:03:14.400 --> 00:03:18.240 The Washington Post, and The Weekly Standard. Jacks a PhD 61 00:03:18.360 --> 00:03:21.639 from Purdue University and the American Studies and is taught 62 00:03:21.680 --> 00:03:25.199 at a French university on the university that is under 63 00:03:25.240 --> 00:03:28.800 the auspices of the Fulbright Program. Here to learn so 64 00:03:28.879 --> 00:03:32.560 much about the mysteries of this thirty years later, Jack Cashell, 65 00:03:32.719 --> 00:03:35.080 welcome to the Doctor Sky Experience. Thank you for spending 66 00:03:35.120 --> 00:03:36.560 time with us. We appreciate you. 67 00:03:36.680 --> 00:03:39.400 Hey, doctor Skuy, thanks for having me. Sure like a 68 00:03:39.439 --> 00:03:43.599 homecoming for me, since I grew up listening to WABC. 69 00:03:44.360 --> 00:03:46.800 Absolutely my friend a powerhouse signal as I like to 70 00:03:46.840 --> 00:03:50.159 talk about, and it'll continue on into infinity. I'm sure 71 00:03:50.759 --> 00:03:53.639 many people around the world like yourself. I grew up 72 00:03:53.639 --> 00:03:55.080 in the New York metro area and I had a 73 00:03:55.120 --> 00:03:58.719 little tiny transistor radio maybe five dollars. My parents had 74 00:03:58.759 --> 00:04:00.280 to take the earphone out of my ear here and 75 00:04:00.319 --> 00:04:03.039 say turn that radio off, and I said, no, I 76 00:04:03.199 --> 00:04:06.479 like to listen to this station. So Jack, this is amazing. 77 00:04:06.560 --> 00:04:08.120 You grew up. We grew up. 78 00:04:08.120 --> 00:04:10.199 I was born in Jamaica, Queens, and we moved all 79 00:04:10.240 --> 00:04:12.759 over the play Jozone Park, Jackson Heights, and then we 80 00:04:12.919 --> 00:04:15.759 escaped over to New Jersey and now I'm here in Phoenix. 81 00:04:16.920 --> 00:04:20.560 Because I grew up in New York, New Jersey, and 82 00:04:20.600 --> 00:04:22.759 in fact, I wrote a book about that experience. It's 83 00:04:22.759 --> 00:04:26.519 called Untenable, which I'd recommend for people who grew up 84 00:04:26.560 --> 00:04:28.879 in that part of the world. Is because it's a 85 00:04:28.959 --> 00:04:30.480 story that no one else wanted to tell. 86 00:04:31.079 --> 00:04:34.040 Absolutely, Jack, again, an honor to have you here. Jack's 87 00:04:34.040 --> 00:04:38.519 website cashual dot com. It is c A s hil 88 00:04:38.639 --> 00:04:40.800 dot com. And if we do have time, Jack, in 89 00:04:40.839 --> 00:04:42.879 these two hours and this adventure as we call it 90 00:04:42.920 --> 00:04:45.079 in the theater of the mind, would like to maybe 91 00:04:45.079 --> 00:04:48.040 talk a little bit and give people some summaries so 92 00:04:48.079 --> 00:04:50.000 you're in the know on these subjects and they are, 93 00:04:50.040 --> 00:04:54.439 of course too. Let's start with this event. Yeah, go ahead. Sure. 94 00:04:54.800 --> 00:04:58.079 I would just say instead of referring people to my website, 95 00:04:58.079 --> 00:05:01.199 I'd rather you refer to my substat which is where 96 00:05:01.240 --> 00:05:05.360 I actively produced. Now I'm published, and it is just 97 00:05:05.639 --> 00:05:08.240 going to substack dot com and look up Jack Cashall 98 00:05:08.319 --> 00:05:09.600 and you'll find it. 99 00:05:10.160 --> 00:05:11.639 The best of the best technology. 100 00:05:11.639 --> 00:05:14.519 There you go, sir, you go, yeah, it's great. It's 101 00:05:14.560 --> 00:05:15.319 a great service. 102 00:05:15.759 --> 00:05:18.839 Absolutely, Jack, this is amazing. I had you on a 103 00:05:18.879 --> 00:05:21.240 show that I did literally ten years ago when the 104 00:05:21.240 --> 00:05:24.639 book came out, the first edition, talking about this tragic 105 00:05:24.680 --> 00:05:27.079 event and it was great because the phone line is 106 00:05:27.120 --> 00:05:28.639 lit up here in the New York I e scuse 107 00:05:28.680 --> 00:05:31.439 me in the Phoenix area. And I'm sure this will continue. 108 00:05:31.480 --> 00:05:34.079 But Jack, take us back to this particular time. I 109 00:05:34.240 --> 00:05:36.680 rather not read this from things like Wikipedia. You're the 110 00:05:36.720 --> 00:05:38.839 experienced person in the room here in the theater, in 111 00:05:38.920 --> 00:05:42.040 your mind, talk about this and what got you intrigued 112 00:05:42.079 --> 00:05:44.040 in this whole story. I mean, it's so fascinating and 113 00:05:44.120 --> 00:05:46.199 so tragic with no answers to this date. 114 00:05:46.319 --> 00:05:49.560 Right, Yeah, I'll tell you how I got involved because 115 00:05:49.560 --> 00:05:53.639 I didn't get involved right away. And when TWAS Flight 116 00:05:53.639 --> 00:05:57.079 eight hundreds occurred, I was living in Kansas City and 117 00:05:57.240 --> 00:06:01.160 I didn't I don't recall having a oh ge moment, 118 00:06:01.319 --> 00:06:04.839 you know where I said, my gosh, this had to 119 00:06:04.920 --> 00:06:08.240 be something you know, X y Z. But about four 120 00:06:08.399 --> 00:06:11.079 years after the fact, now we're talking about the year 121 00:06:11.079 --> 00:06:15.120 two thousand, I belonged to this club and they we'd 122 00:06:15.160 --> 00:06:19.240 have guest speakers every month. In one month we had 123 00:06:19.360 --> 00:06:23.560 James and Elizabeth Sanders. And James was the first investigator 124 00:06:23.600 --> 00:06:25.720 on this case, and he wrote a book called The 125 00:06:25.800 --> 00:06:30.120 Downing of TWA eight hundred. So I went to the event. 126 00:06:30.160 --> 00:06:31.720 It was at a country club. I got there late, 127 00:06:31.879 --> 00:06:35.319 wasn't expecting anything, and the room was filled, and that 128 00:06:35.439 --> 00:06:38.959 surprised me. Not only was it filled, but it was 129 00:06:39.000 --> 00:06:43.720 filled with angry people who totally signed on to Jim's 130 00:06:43.720 --> 00:06:47.800 theory that the plane had been shot down. And after 131 00:06:48.120 --> 00:06:51.879 a few minutes listening to the questions, I realized, of course, 132 00:06:52.319 --> 00:06:55.800 this is TWA's ancestral home, Kansas City. 133 00:06:56.279 --> 00:06:57.839 These people were all veteran. 134 00:06:57.519 --> 00:07:03.680 T WA people. So after it was over, in fact, 135 00:07:03.720 --> 00:07:05.759 I went out to dinner with the Sanders and a 136 00:07:05.759 --> 00:07:08.439 bunch of other people, and I ended up sitting next 137 00:07:08.480 --> 00:07:13.079 to Elizabeth Sanders, Jim's white, you're really pretty Filipino American, 138 00:07:13.600 --> 00:07:17.680 sweet as could be. And when I heard her story, 139 00:07:17.839 --> 00:07:21.680 and when I learned that she and Jim had been arrested, 140 00:07:22.160 --> 00:07:26.839 convicted of conspiracy for Jim's effort to tell the truth 141 00:07:27.199 --> 00:07:30.399 about t W eight hundred, I said, man, there's a 142 00:07:30.439 --> 00:07:33.600 story here that needs to be told because just even 143 00:07:33.680 --> 00:07:37.480 my sister, my mother, could have been anywhere, and they 144 00:07:37.480 --> 00:07:41.399 were both convicted, both you know, died convicted a federal court. 145 00:07:42.000 --> 00:07:45.240 And so the next morning I went to breakfast with 146 00:07:45.639 --> 00:07:48.399 the Sanders and I asked him, has there been a 147 00:07:48.439 --> 00:07:53.079 documentary done on the subject, and they said no. And 148 00:07:53.120 --> 00:07:54.800 at that time, you know, I was doing a lot 149 00:07:54.800 --> 00:07:58.839 of documentaries, and so we started talking and that began 150 00:07:58.959 --> 00:08:04.199 a between us, a friendship that lasted until Jim died 151 00:08:04.240 --> 00:08:07.759 about five years ago, and I still in touch with Elizabeth. 152 00:08:08.480 --> 00:08:13.959 So once they told me their story, I said to them, 153 00:08:14.199 --> 00:08:18.000 before I get involved in this, because I don't want 154 00:08:18.040 --> 00:08:20.920 to just go down some rabbit hole and have it 155 00:08:21.040 --> 00:08:25.360 be some well maybe this, maybe that, who knows, who knows. 156 00:08:25.839 --> 00:08:29.120 So I agreed to go. They were living in Fort Lauderdale, 157 00:08:29.199 --> 00:08:31.360 and I said I'm going to They invited me down. 158 00:08:31.959 --> 00:08:35.240 We spent three days together. But before I got there, 159 00:08:36.039 --> 00:08:40.200 I read the two mainstream books that were out about 160 00:08:40.480 --> 00:08:43.159 t w A Flight one hundred, one written by the 161 00:08:43.200 --> 00:08:46.919 AP reporter who covered it, Pad Milton, the other by 162 00:08:46.960 --> 00:08:50.879 the CNN reporter who covered the case, Christine m Groni, 163 00:08:51.240 --> 00:08:55.559 And they were both full on board, you know, inexplicable 164 00:08:56.279 --> 00:09:01.840 fuel tank explosion, quite a terrible tragedy. But they're very convincing, 165 00:09:01.919 --> 00:09:03.759 if you know, because I didn't know that much. 166 00:09:03.559 --> 00:09:04.279 About the case. 167 00:09:04.639 --> 00:09:07.360 Nice and so when I got to the Sanders, I 168 00:09:07.399 --> 00:09:10.600 was skeptical. I said, I'm from Missouri. I'm in Missouri. 169 00:09:10.679 --> 00:09:14.200 Now you got to show me right, And in three 170 00:09:14.240 --> 00:09:17.960 days they totally convinced me that they were right. And 171 00:09:18.080 --> 00:09:20.360 that's again, are the beginning of our adventure together. 172 00:09:21.000 --> 00:09:23.759 No, that's an incredible story. And I reach out to 173 00:09:23.799 --> 00:09:26.159 the audience and not to ask a dumb question or anything, 174 00:09:26.679 --> 00:09:28.759 but I think in all due respect to those that 175 00:09:28.840 --> 00:09:31.240 passed on that day and all the cover up that 176 00:09:31.279 --> 00:09:33.519 we hear about and searching for answers, just like in 177 00:09:33.559 --> 00:09:36.240 many ways but not directly aligned with the uap uf 178 00:09:36.320 --> 00:09:38.080 O thing, when are we ever going to get disclosure? 179 00:09:38.120 --> 00:09:40.720 This is totally a different way of trying to get 180 00:09:41.120 --> 00:09:42.960 skin the cat and try to get answers. I'd like 181 00:09:43.000 --> 00:09:44.799 to go out to the audience here, particularly those in 182 00:09:44.840 --> 00:09:47.399 the New York metro area, or maybe anybody around the 183 00:09:47.480 --> 00:09:50.200 nation that may have had an experience where you actually 184 00:09:50.200 --> 00:09:54.120 witnessed this particular episode a tragedy in American aviation, a 185 00:09:54.200 --> 00:09:56.320 tragedy for the world in one eight hundred and eight 186 00:09:56.399 --> 00:09:59.159 four eight nine, two two two, because I'm sure many 187 00:09:59.200 --> 00:10:02.559 of those people are still actively in pursuit like we are, 188 00:10:03.039 --> 00:10:06.440 mister Cashwall, on this particular story. So let's talk about 189 00:10:06.480 --> 00:10:09.840 the event itself. The aircraft, the Boeing seven forty seven, 190 00:10:10.759 --> 00:10:14.120 one of the great aircrafts that Mowing's built. Yes, amazing airport. 191 00:10:14.200 --> 00:10:17.519 Yeah, the workhorse of the sky. I mean they it's 192 00:10:17.559 --> 00:10:22.240 and it's it's going to Paris from JFK. It takes 193 00:10:22.279 --> 00:10:26.679 off at seven nineteen perfectly fine, nice evening, something like 194 00:10:26.720 --> 00:10:29.759 seventy one degrees that had, you know when it took 195 00:10:29.799 --> 00:10:34.639 off right around just before sun set. And it's got 196 00:10:34.639 --> 00:10:38.120 two hundred and thirty people on board. Fifty three of 197 00:10:38.159 --> 00:10:42.919 them are TWA employees. Many of them are dead heading 198 00:10:42.960 --> 00:10:47.519 back to Paris. So for the TWA family, it was 199 00:10:47.559 --> 00:10:51.519 a huge strategy. These are their friends and you know, 200 00:10:51.559 --> 00:10:58.360 their loved ones. And in twelve minutes out of JFK, 201 00:10:58.480 --> 00:11:01.960 they're heading east along the south coast of Long Island. 202 00:11:02.320 --> 00:11:05.120 And what makes this kind of interesting and I'm unusual, 203 00:11:05.799 --> 00:11:08.159 is that you know, the south coast of you know, 204 00:11:08.240 --> 00:11:10.799 it's the Hampton's all that stuff. This is sort of 205 00:11:10.799 --> 00:11:14.519 affluent beach communities. At a night, I can miss a 206 00:11:14.679 --> 00:11:18.799 beautiful summer night. Everyone's out, you know, people on the beach, 207 00:11:18.840 --> 00:11:21.000 they're out in their decks, they're out of them, you know, 208 00:11:21.080 --> 00:11:26.159 their rooftop gardens, whatever. So there's what happens. Happens in 209 00:11:26.240 --> 00:11:30.399 full view of literally thousands of people, some seven hundred 210 00:11:30.399 --> 00:11:33.639 and fifty of them. We'll talk to the FBI, and 211 00:11:33.759 --> 00:11:38.759 at seven point thirty one, I will just I'll just 212 00:11:38.759 --> 00:11:43.919 skip ahead to stave the mystery here. About seven thirty people, 213 00:11:44.360 --> 00:11:48.320 many people up and down the coast, at least fifty 214 00:11:48.399 --> 00:11:52.480 six people, according to the NTSB, trace the event from 215 00:11:52.480 --> 00:11:57.559 the horizon. They see rising from the horizon, streak of 216 00:11:57.639 --> 00:12:02.600 light and a gray colored kind of squiggling arking over 217 00:12:03.840 --> 00:12:10.519 approaching the airplane. Explosion, explosion, massive fireball, ball into the sea. 218 00:12:11.559 --> 00:12:13.919 That was at seven point thirty one. The plane was 219 00:12:13.919 --> 00:12:18.879 at about thirteen thousand feet and immediately, you know, people 220 00:12:18.879 --> 00:12:22.120 were calling into the Suffolk County Police, New York City 221 00:12:22.120 --> 00:12:29.200 Police wherever, and the tragedy was. You know, everyone knew 222 00:12:29.200 --> 00:12:31.279 what had happened. The plane was gone. It was gone 223 00:12:31.320 --> 00:12:36.519 from the transponders at the air traffic controllers. It was gone, period. 224 00:12:37.200 --> 00:12:40.600 And the rest of it was the rest of it. 225 00:12:41.039 --> 00:12:47.639 The real story begins after the plane crashes, after the 226 00:12:47.639 --> 00:12:51.200 plane descends into the sea, the unsavory part of the 227 00:12:51.240 --> 00:12:51.960 story begins. 228 00:12:52.000 --> 00:12:56.200 Then that's exactly right if you're just tuning into the 229 00:12:56.279 --> 00:12:58.240 Dutchess Sky experience in our theater of the mind as 230 00:12:58.279 --> 00:13:00.679 we like to call it. Jack Cash an author of 231 00:13:00.720 --> 00:13:03.840 many subjects, but in this particular episode, we're speaking with 232 00:13:03.919 --> 00:13:06.759 him and you too can answer and have maybe some 233 00:13:06.799 --> 00:13:09.399 of your questions answered. Maybe you were witness to this tragedy. 234 00:13:10.000 --> 00:13:12.080 The book d W eight hundred, The Crash, to Cover 235 00:13:12.200 --> 00:13:14.240 Up and the Conspiracy, one of a number of books 236 00:13:14.240 --> 00:13:16.840 that he's written, and also a documentary on this. But 237 00:13:16.840 --> 00:13:18.480 a little bit back, I just want to go back 238 00:13:18.519 --> 00:13:21.679 to the seven forty seven itself. We talk aviation here. 239 00:13:21.720 --> 00:13:24.279 I'm enamored by this and these are some of the 240 00:13:24.320 --> 00:13:26.519 things that I've been so proud of over the years. 241 00:13:26.519 --> 00:13:29.080 I had a rare interview with Joe Sutter, the Boeing 242 00:13:29.120 --> 00:13:31.720 designer of the seven forty seven. He since passed on. 243 00:13:32.399 --> 00:13:34.240 But the reason I mentioned that Jack is that this 244 00:13:34.279 --> 00:13:37.120 particular aircraft for those people that are very technical and 245 00:13:37.159 --> 00:13:40.840 interested in the aviation world. The aircraft was manufactured in 246 00:13:40.879 --> 00:13:44.360 July nineteen seventy one. His officially was a Boeing seven 247 00:13:44.399 --> 00:13:47.720 forty seven Disc one thirty one. It's registered n number. 248 00:13:47.759 --> 00:13:49.679 This is for people who don't do deep research on 249 00:13:49.720 --> 00:13:53.320 the airplane itself N nine thirty one one nine with 250 00:13:53.399 --> 00:13:56.360 a serial number of two zero zero eight three. And 251 00:13:56.399 --> 00:13:58.559 again not to steal thunder from your story, because it's 252 00:13:58.600 --> 00:14:01.799 so powerful. It can be leaded sixteen eight hundred and 253 00:14:01.879 --> 00:14:05.360 sixty nine flights in ninety three thousand, three hundred and 254 00:14:05.360 --> 00:14:10.039 three hours of operation, empowered by the very reliable Pratt 255 00:14:10.039 --> 00:14:12.559 and Whitney j T nine D seven eight eight s 256 00:14:12.600 --> 00:14:14.519 turbofan engines. Now what does that have to do with 257 00:14:14.559 --> 00:14:16.840 your story? It goes to tell you that these are 258 00:14:16.879 --> 00:14:19.799 train pilots. These are people that had thousands one of 259 00:14:19.840 --> 00:14:23.320 hours behind the cockpit knowing what to do with this airplane. 260 00:14:23.759 --> 00:14:25.960 So many of these theories, just to put it in summation, 261 00:14:26.000 --> 00:14:27.759 and we're going to have you explain to us some 262 00:14:27.799 --> 00:14:30.240 of the maybe some of the how ludicrous some of 263 00:14:30.240 --> 00:14:33.320 these might be, and how maybe relative they are to reality. 264 00:14:33.840 --> 00:14:35.759 Some of the theories A bomb on the Lord, a 265 00:14:35.799 --> 00:14:40.039 man Pas shoulder fired missile, a terrorist aircraft hitting the 266 00:14:40.080 --> 00:14:44.840 TWA eight hundred, a mid level of fmule, tank spark explosion, 267 00:14:44.879 --> 00:14:47.759 the CIA version, and then it gets even more bizarre. 268 00:14:47.759 --> 00:14:50.440 But I don't know, a US Navy missile hits the 269 00:14:50.480 --> 00:14:54.159 airplane by accident, trying to hit a terrorist aircraft that 270 00:14:54.200 --> 00:14:56.639 flew near the TWA eight hundred. These are all things 271 00:14:56.639 --> 00:14:59.759 we read. But take us back to reality, give us 272 00:14:59.799 --> 00:15:01.440 your best assession of what do you. 273 00:15:01.399 --> 00:15:04.159 Think I just And also, doctor skuy feel free to 274 00:15:04.200 --> 00:15:07.799 add those details because I'm not an aviator, Okay, I 275 00:15:07.799 --> 00:15:11.399 don't profess to you know, know more about the press, 276 00:15:11.440 --> 00:15:14.120 although what I can add. What I can add is this, 277 00:15:14.879 --> 00:15:17.960 in the history of the seven forty seven, no plane 278 00:15:18.120 --> 00:15:24.080 ever self combusted in mid air. No plane before nineteen 279 00:15:24.159 --> 00:15:27.879 ninety six, no plane after nineteen ninety six. And this 280 00:15:28.080 --> 00:15:33.320 was the very very very rare mechanical failure in which 281 00:15:33.399 --> 00:15:39.159 the NTSB or the FBIA grounded the fleet and made 282 00:15:39.720 --> 00:15:43.600 you know, improvements so it wouldn't happen again. They just 283 00:15:43.679 --> 00:15:47.120 kept on plying that includes the air force. One put 284 00:15:47.120 --> 00:15:48.279 that in perspective. 285 00:15:50.360 --> 00:15:52.600 No, it's amazing, Jack, what you're talking about here, And 286 00:15:52.639 --> 00:15:54.840 now we hear that whole history of the seven forty seven. 287 00:15:54.879 --> 00:15:57.559 Now they've stopped production, that's a whole nother story for 288 00:15:57.639 --> 00:16:00.919 the aviation world. But going back to I mean, this 289 00:16:01.039 --> 00:16:03.600 is amazing. People are witnessing this all over the place. 290 00:16:03.919 --> 00:16:05.960 Give us an account as you're tell in your book 291 00:16:05.960 --> 00:16:09.279 and describe it. How many witnesses did indeed the FBI, 292 00:16:09.480 --> 00:16:11.960 you know, interrogate or take their testimony. I mean, this 293 00:16:12.000 --> 00:16:13.600 is interesting story to tell us. 294 00:16:14.480 --> 00:16:16.960 Yeah, I think the final count was seven hundred and 295 00:16:16.960 --> 00:16:17.480 fifty five. 296 00:16:18.039 --> 00:16:18.240 Wow. 297 00:16:18.440 --> 00:16:23.120 And the FBI, by the way, was totally they're in 298 00:16:23.240 --> 00:16:26.840 over their heads. That's they're not air you know, investigators 299 00:16:26.879 --> 00:16:28.759 of air craft intimates. 300 00:16:29.000 --> 00:16:29.960 They shouldn't even. 301 00:16:29.759 --> 00:16:33.480 Been on the job. But on day one, hour one 302 00:16:34.519 --> 00:16:38.279 they were designated to take the job over from the 303 00:16:38.399 --> 00:16:44.279 National Transportation Safety Board, the NTSB, who by law is 304 00:16:44.360 --> 00:16:50.320 designated to control all in any domestic airplane crashes. Now 305 00:16:50.679 --> 00:16:53.919 they maintained that control by law. I mean, it's not 306 00:16:53.960 --> 00:16:59.960 just like a tradition. It's law only if until it's 307 00:17:00.120 --> 00:17:03.320 are a crime. And this was never declared a crime, 308 00:17:03.399 --> 00:17:06.720 the destruction of two grade hundred. But the I just 309 00:17:06.759 --> 00:17:09.440 bullied them right out of the way, right immediately and 310 00:17:09.519 --> 00:17:13.319 started interviewing people up and down the coast of Long 311 00:17:13.319 --> 00:17:16.799 Island and then Connecticut, even in New Jersey, people at 312 00:17:16.920 --> 00:17:20.119 you know, ships at sea, a few aviators who saw it, 313 00:17:20.519 --> 00:17:23.720 helicopter pilots, and what the FBI would do is they 314 00:17:23.720 --> 00:17:26.160 would interview someone and fill out what's called the three 315 00:17:26.200 --> 00:17:29.920 to zero two which is just like a handwritten, you know, 316 00:17:30.160 --> 00:17:33.720 a document where you would and then it would be 317 00:17:33.880 --> 00:17:36.640 at some point given to a secretary to type up 318 00:17:36.759 --> 00:17:39.640 or whatever. So, but they didn't have any GPS, they 319 00:17:39.680 --> 00:17:43.720 didn't have any navigation as they were really blundering through this, 320 00:17:43.799 --> 00:17:47.720 which actually ends up helping the people who wanted this 321 00:17:49.039 --> 00:17:53.920 incident to go away. So they interviewed about seven hundred 322 00:17:53.920 --> 00:17:56.880 fifty five people. Of those seven fifty five, I think 323 00:17:56.920 --> 00:18:01.160 that the number was two fifty eight who saw a 324 00:18:01.279 --> 00:18:05.880 streak of light heading up towards the aircraft. And I 325 00:18:05.920 --> 00:18:10.440 think the end final MTSP number was fifty six who 326 00:18:10.480 --> 00:18:13.440 were able to trace that streak of light from the 327 00:18:13.519 --> 00:18:19.480 horizon all the way to the aircraft. So many of 328 00:18:19.519 --> 00:18:23.480 these witnesses were just excellent, and a lot of them 329 00:18:23.880 --> 00:18:29.799 were professionals with serious experience and helicopter pilots for instance, 330 00:18:29.839 --> 00:18:34.119 and you know former military people, fisherman people who were 331 00:18:34.200 --> 00:18:38.920 used to knowing what they were seeing, and also people 332 00:18:39.720 --> 00:18:44.079 it's going to sound a little sort of classes maybe, 333 00:18:44.400 --> 00:18:46.559 but people who live on along the coast of the 334 00:18:46.599 --> 00:18:50.559 Amptons and southern Long Island are used to be taken seriously. 335 00:18:52.440 --> 00:18:55.599 They can't easily be brushed off, and so they were 336 00:18:55.680 --> 00:19:02.480 very persistent. And the one short coming of this witness 337 00:19:02.559 --> 00:19:07.200 experience is that this took place just before the Internet 338 00:19:07.319 --> 00:19:13.119 became a commonplace. Only about twelve percent of the people 339 00:19:13.559 --> 00:19:18.680 were online, and so the witnesses had had no way. 340 00:19:19.160 --> 00:19:22.160 Your report that the New York Times came online I 341 00:19:22.200 --> 00:19:24.480 think in an internet and way back in nineteen ninety 342 00:19:24.480 --> 00:19:26.079 six or thereabouts, right to. 343 00:19:26.039 --> 00:19:30.400 Continue, that's when they first came online, exactly. And so 344 00:19:30.480 --> 00:19:32.759 but the witnesses had no way of knowing there were 345 00:19:32.759 --> 00:19:37.960 other witnesses because The New York Times wasn't going to interview. 346 00:19:37.640 --> 00:19:43.759 The interesting right, but firsthand evidence right from the cockpit 347 00:19:43.799 --> 00:19:45.759 of an aircraft. I'm reading this from your book. No, 348 00:19:45.759 --> 00:19:50.000 I'm not reading it Forbiden executive, No excuse me. We're 349 00:19:50.000 --> 00:19:54.039 talking about David McLean, an East Wind pilot, saw the 350 00:19:54.079 --> 00:19:56.400 tw eight hundred explode right in front of him. And 351 00:19:56.480 --> 00:19:59.039 what better evidence could you have that something's amissed there 352 00:19:59.400 --> 00:20:02.119 that we see the explosion. Describe that a little better 353 00:20:02.160 --> 00:20:04.440 than what I tried to read there because or described 354 00:20:04.480 --> 00:20:07.160 because when you have that first hand information, they're seeing 355 00:20:07.200 --> 00:20:09.680 it right from sitting in the cockpit, like, oh my god, 356 00:20:09.720 --> 00:20:12.160 look at this big airliner. I just saw it explode. 357 00:20:12.200 --> 00:20:14.440 Tell us more about that. That's inportant in. 358 00:20:14.480 --> 00:20:17.359 Mc clain's case. And you know, it's been a while 359 00:20:17.400 --> 00:20:19.720 since I've reviewed this case, but I think remember it well. 360 00:20:20.319 --> 00:20:25.200 What the I would say the people were become I'm 361 00:20:25.200 --> 00:20:27.400 going to call it the conspirators, the people who wanted 362 00:20:27.400 --> 00:20:30.720 this to go away. What they liked about McClain is 363 00:20:30.720 --> 00:20:34.799 that he didn't see the missile approach. What they didn't 364 00:20:34.920 --> 00:20:37.839 like about McClean is that he saw the plane fall 365 00:20:37.960 --> 00:20:38.799 right out of the sky. 366 00:20:39.599 --> 00:20:40.200 That's amazing. 367 00:20:40.240 --> 00:20:45.119 Now, why this was a problem is because the CIA, 368 00:20:46.200 --> 00:20:52.359 which had very discreetly taking control of the investigation from 369 00:20:52.400 --> 00:20:57.839 the FBI on day one or day two, at the 370 00:20:58.000 --> 00:21:02.880 end of their the way they closed the investigation was 371 00:21:02.920 --> 00:21:07.960 the CIA was commissioned this is crazy to create an 372 00:21:07.960 --> 00:21:15.000 animation that would somehow rationalize explain away what the eyewitnesses saw. 373 00:21:15.920 --> 00:21:19.440 And so what they concluded, and doctor Scott, you could 374 00:21:19.440 --> 00:21:23.480 probably speak to this more eloquently than I can. What 375 00:21:23.640 --> 00:21:27.079 they concluded was that there was an on board explosion 376 00:21:27.160 --> 00:21:31.640 center fuel tank, spontaneous unknown origin. They blew the nose 377 00:21:31.680 --> 00:21:37.640 off the plane, and then the noseless plane ascended from 378 00:21:37.640 --> 00:21:41.599 that point another thirty five hundred and four thousand feet, 379 00:21:41.880 --> 00:21:45.279 using people into thinking they saw a missile going up. 380 00:21:46.160 --> 00:21:48.599 Totally ridiculous, but it was spoon fed to us, and 381 00:21:48.680 --> 00:21:49.720 so many people have known. 382 00:21:49.759 --> 00:21:49.960 Well. 383 00:21:50.039 --> 00:21:53.519 Now, obviously through your research and your books investigative journalism, 384 00:21:53.880 --> 00:21:56.440 people are starting to wake up. But thirty years later, 385 00:21:56.599 --> 00:21:58.960 oh my gosh, I mean, this is still the greatest mystery. 386 00:21:59.240 --> 00:22:01.440 And then it goes as we get into this interview 387 00:22:01.480 --> 00:22:04.480 with our very special guest, Jack Cashell, your questions and 388 00:22:04.519 --> 00:22:06.720 observations at one eight hundred and eight four eight nine 389 00:22:06.759 --> 00:22:09.079 to two to two two. Maybe some of you even 390 00:22:09.119 --> 00:22:13.039 witness this, or no people who had, or sadly again, 391 00:22:13.519 --> 00:22:16.599 maybe you knew people who actually perished on that particular aircraft. 392 00:22:17.160 --> 00:22:19.680 But I think I have it right, didn't George Stephanopoulos 393 00:22:19.759 --> 00:22:21.759 once say, and I don't know if the quote is right, 394 00:22:22.039 --> 00:22:25.160 Tell the truth, but do it slowly? Is there some 395 00:22:25.240 --> 00:22:26.319 truth to what I just said? 396 00:22:27.720 --> 00:22:30.200 I don't know that he said that, but okay, I 397 00:22:30.200 --> 00:22:35.799 think I don't know that. 398 00:22:33.319 --> 00:22:35.720 That's what I thought I heard. But that's interesting. So 399 00:22:35.759 --> 00:22:38.799 the main role of the CIA is to deceive. That's 400 00:22:38.839 --> 00:22:41.000 the business that they're in, so obviously true. 401 00:22:41.240 --> 00:22:43.440