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Speaker 1: Understand the thinking atheist. It's not a person, it's a symbol,

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an idea.

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Speaker 2: The population of atheists this country is going through the.

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Speaker 1: Rule, rejecting faith, pursuing knowledge, challenging the sacred.

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Speaker 3: If I tell the truth, it's because I tell the truth,

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not because I put my hand on a book and

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made a.

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Speaker 1: Wish and working together for a more rational world.

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Speaker 2: Take the risk of thinking. Feel so much more happiness.

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Truth Fusian wisdom will come to you that way.

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Speaker 1: Assume nothing, question everything, and start thinking. This is the

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Thinking Atheist podcast hosted by Seth Andrews.

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Speaker 2: Rachel Bitakoffer is a political scientist. You may have seen

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doctor Bitakoffer on MSNBC. You might have read her work

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in the New York Times. She's been featured on Politico

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and in The Washington Post and elsewhere. And she's authored

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a couple of books that interested me from title alone,

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including the Unprecedented twenty sixteen Presidential Election. And she co

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authored the book Hit Him Where It Hurts, How to

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Save Democracy by beating Republicans at their own game. Oh,

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I wanted to talk to this person, so I invited

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Rachel to join me. May I call you Rachel? I mean,

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I can go with doctor Buddy, call.

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Speaker 3: Me anything you want, as long as it's not late

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to dinner.

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Speaker 2: I thought about bringing you in in like some gold

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glitter and firework, kind of an Erica Kirk entrance, which

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seems to be like the way to bring people into

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a conversation. You've been following the Erica Kirk thing, and

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here's let me qualify it a little bit, like I

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am grieved by the murder of another human being, Charlie Kirk.

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I am opposed to political violence. I don't want to

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live in a world where we assassinate the people that

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we despise. And I was not a fan of Charlie Kirk.

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But in an example of many things can be true

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at the same time, his murder does not whitewash his

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reputation has past, his history is legacy. That's not unfair,

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is it, Rachel No.

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Speaker 3: I mean, it's also why he's dead, right, And for

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full disclosure, I have the whole same position. I'm able

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to separate humans and I don't support political violence of

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any type. So it was obviously upsetting to see Charlie

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murdered on live Internet. Unfortunately, because of Elon, you can't

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then see some of the things that you see without

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those filters. But for full disclosure, I met Charlie Kirk.

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I did his show once. He brought me down to

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a state of the art financed by billionaires Turning Point Empire,

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and I agreed to go because I figured, a, he

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doesn't know who I am, because I'm not some like

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crazy left as he can make a fool out of

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and be I wanted to see his infrastructure, you know.

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And I mentioned that because I said to him backstage,

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I got a chance to talk to Charlie Kirk. And

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you know, I didn't go there to like, you know,

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make him look dumb. I went there to try to

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get to his audience a little bit and make them think, hmm,

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maybe what I seem right, and so, you know, but

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I said to him, listen, you know, are you know

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this is not going to end well? Like you were

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at an event a couple months ago and one of

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the speakers said that it was time for Second Amendment

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solutions to the left, okay, And Charlie was on the

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stage at that point, and he looked like uncomfortable and

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kind of moved on right, and I told him that

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you're playing with fire. Like, this is very dangerous work.

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And you know what, it is absolutely not okay that

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he was killed for political reasons, but the fact is

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it was that work that got him killed. That's why

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the shooter was motivated. About as far as we understand,

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the hated Charlie Kirk for spreading hate, right, so you know,

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and Erica though, okay, that's a whole different topic. And

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I was a little shocked, to be honest with you.

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I figured turning point was going to be handed over

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to maybe Ben Shapiro, and the idea that it went

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to Erica Kirk because Charlie's last wish was that his

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wife and mother of two young young children would go

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work full time, Like seemed a little weird. I'm just saying,

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good for the goose, not good for the ganders.

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Speaker 2: Wasn't Charlie's hold stick almost a tradwife thing, you know,

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woman should be at home making babies, serving her man.

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And yes, Erica was the epitome. She was the antithesis

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of that huge hypocrisy.

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Speaker 3: Yeah, that in the freaky grieving. Okay, Now, I think

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people do grieve weird, like Amanda Knox for example, that

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woman that was arrested in Italy, you know a for

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murdering her roommate. Part of her arrest was motivated by

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the weird way she was grieving. Okay, uh, Erica Church Church, Eric.

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I don't know what motivates Erica's grieving, but it is weird.

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My husband's dead.

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Speaker 2: Yeah a wwe entrance, ladies and gentlemen, Erica Kirk. And

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this was right on the heels of her husband's murdering like.

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Speaker 3: My husband and I would be crushed it he was

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murdered at an event, right like I wouldn't be getting

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up and like woo.

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Speaker 2: And I mean, help me understand from your perspective, Charlie

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Kirk's talking about how we need to return to the

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traditional family and we need women back in the home

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raising the kids and all that. Meanwhile, Erica, I mean,

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I'm wondering, how do you even freaking reconcile that?

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Speaker 3: You know that you can't you can't reconcile it. And

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you know what turning points audience not missed that for

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those of us that monitor Mega opinion for a living

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like there was, it was not without notice, like, oh

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wait a minute, what who's taking over? Isn't she have children?

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Isn't this exactly the point of Charlie Kirk's entire like

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pivot to Christian nationalism. He didn't really start in that space,

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but once he saw the money and the money is

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good griftin MAGA, right, especially on the Christian nation Christian end,

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you know, he saw, he really started moving into that way.

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And so the day that he was murdered, his position,

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at least from what I understood, it was that Erica

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should be at home, barefoot taking care of babies, wasn't.

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Speaker 2: Charlie Kirk also on record talking about how that gun

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murders in this country are kind of a yeah, I mean,

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it's it's collateral damage. If we're going to have a

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strong second Amendment occasionally, you know, if you're going to

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have the omelet, some eggs are going to get broken.

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And then ironically he's murdered with a gun, right, and

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it sucks.

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Speaker 3: I don't want anyone to die the way that Charlie

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Kirk died, but he was fine with small children of

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other families dying that way, you know what I mean?

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Speaker 2: Yeah, do you ever have that feeling that you know,

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I mean, you're a political fire brand, many would say

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in a culture that timely charged do you ever find

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yourself looking over your shoulder.

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Speaker 3: Oh, yes, I get plenty of stuff. Now. Number one,

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I don't platform any of the weird stuff I get

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because that just makes them do it. That's the whole

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point of them doing it, so that you'll go on

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Twitter and be like they got I got docs today,

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or I did this or that, or they sent me

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this or that. Right, So I don't profile it. But yeah,

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you know, when you are in the public sphere against

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a fascist maga. I mean, it's already cost me my career.

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To be clear, I was a mad success at CNU

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and the Lawson Center. I took this little survey University

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Center and University New Ones ever heard of, and had

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it in political mag in the New York Times. And

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then I got denied my tenure. Well, they canceled the

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tenure conversion process to deny my tenure. Conversion had been

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approved at the department and social science school level, right,

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got vetoed by the president. And you know, so I've

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already sacrificed an academic career. I spent years in a

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PhD training to have you know, and I did all

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that because I understood the threat we were facing. I mean,

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Donald Trump. I knew he wasn't going to leave office

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in January of twenty twenty one without like a scene,

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and what ended up being was an insurrection, right, you know,

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you just got to be you got to be truthful.

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I can't live with myself if I'm not being truthful,

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and I had to make a decision, I think. And

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you'll see this in all the Beltway media, right, especially

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the people who do election analysis. They never once in

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twenty twenty fours coverage ever talked about, well, isn't it

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weird though that the Republican nominee is a fell in

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that he has all these indictments should he be running.

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They just normalized the absolute abnormal. And they do that

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because if they are truthful, then it looks like they

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are not being non partisan, right. And I would never

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choose anything over my ability to be honest with people.

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So you know, it's it's a it's a choice that

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you make when you go into public fights against maga,

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and you know you live with it.

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Speaker 2: I had this note in my prep for our conversation

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about how the media in so many cases really is

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failing us with this sort of sane washing series of

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headlines I made a couple of notes. This was back

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when Donald Trump was making some of his earlier comments

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about those immigrant murderers who are coming over the border

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to you know, steal, kill and destroy, and you know,

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murder genetically. I think he felt like some are genetically

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predisposed to kill Americans. The New York Times covered it

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with this lead. In his remarks about migrants, Donald Trump

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invoked his long held fascination with genes and genetics.

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Speaker 3: How they do it?

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Speaker 2: I'm sorry. There was another one. ABC wrote Unprecedented, how

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Trump has pushed the limits of presidential power in his

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first one hundred days, which makes us think that what

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he's still within the limits. Not that this is just

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straight up fascism. I mean they've sainwashed the whole party.

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Speaker 3: Yes, the Saane washing is why we are here, Okay, Like,

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had we chosen not, I mean everyone had done what

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I did was, which was decide for truth instead of career,

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we wouldn't be in this position that most people are

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not going to choose. That people choose their economic security

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over everything else. And you know, I guess that's understandable.

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But at the end of the day, you know, the

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media owns a lot of this, and you know that

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it was funny because I was doing an interview with

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Don Lemon, who, since leaving CNN has you know, moved

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his stuff to YouTube. And you know, Don was arrested

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right for covering a protest. They went and got him

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during the Grammys in La like literally why he was

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out there to cover it and arrested him and tried

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to charge him with like rioting in a church when

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he went and followed a protest crowd into the church

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and he was holding his camera saying, I'm in here

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as press. I am just covering this event. It's like,

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you know, I said to him before that, just you know,

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we talk about sarendipity. I was like, hey, do you

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guys ever like get together like you guys, I mean

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like major news people, right, do you guys understand that

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like you're first on the trains, like has that like

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not sunk first? They are gonna come for you.

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Speaker 2: Like do you not get them the conduits of information?

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Speaker 4: Right?

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Speaker 2: They want, dear Leader State Television. They right now they're

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Fox newsifying CBS. Oh my godness, the idea of I

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don't know, journalists banding together. I'm referencing this recent open letter.

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Two hundred and fifty journalists in advance of the White

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House Correspondence dinner, Sam Donaldson, Dan and others put together

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this open statement saying, hey, stop putting up with this shit, like,

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don't stand up and applaud the president. Don't give him

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any quarter. He has been attacking you and threatening you forever,

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and they're asking journalists to finally grow a spine. Do

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you think that's going to happen ever?

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Speaker 3: You know, I want to believe it, but no, don't.

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I don't think it's going to happen ever. I mean, here,

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let's take this one thing into example. Yesterday, the BBC

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broke a story that says it looks like there's been

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insider treating from the White House. Okay, well that's the

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first media outlet been willing to cover that story. You

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see it obviously in independent media. But you know, you

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haven't seen a New York Times expos about the insider

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trading that's happening in cleanside from the White House. You

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also haven't seen any coverage Rep. Garcia. You know, the

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Epstein files are only viewable by members of Congress, right,

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soocratic Rep Garcia, I think he's in California. He went

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into the Epstein files and he found evidence of a

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settlement paid to an Epstein victim by one Donald J. Trump. Okay,

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and even that never got covered in the New York Times.

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From Washington Post, same thing with this obey in advance

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that Tim Snyder or authoritarian expert taught us. It's what

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we're seeing is obeying in advance so that they are

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not reporting the Epstein stuff. They're not reporting the insider

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training stuff. And it seems like they're afraid to cover

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him because he's going to sue them. Well, he sued

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the Wall Street Journal and they and he lost. Right,

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and now we all know for sure as we already knew,

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because they would never republish that Epstein picture of the

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preblessent girl with the Donald Trump's signature and the you know,

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and the pre boom booms. I mean, it's pretty obvious

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when Trump balludes to I have a shared secret with

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Jeffrey Epstein in a naked teenagers picture what he's talking about, right,

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And yet you know, you see very little willingness in

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the media. They barely talk about Epstein files, but when

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they do, they talk about Trump as his problem, as

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he's blocking access and visibility. Okay, transparency, but they also

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so and by the way, he may be doing that

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because he's in these files and they already tried in

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one release to scrub it out right, and we know

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that they had to come and re release it. So

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you know, it's a mess, and the media is a big,

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big part of that. For sure.

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Speaker 2: How do we know he's a sexual predator? He freaking

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told us he's a sexual predator. I know a lot

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of legal experts saw the lawsuit against paramount CBS sixty

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minutes and they said, you know what, if they hadn't settled,

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they probably would have won that lawsuit. Yes, right, I

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mean if CBS would it just stuck it out, Trump

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would have lost, right.

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Speaker 3: Yes, I mean we saw that with the other seats

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for the firms and the outlets that did stick it out,

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they're all winning. And that's because none of this. You

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can't do Earth two in court. I mean Trump figured

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that out with the election, big lie stuff, right, sixty

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three cases trying to claim fraud while the judges are okay, great,

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where's the evidence we have? You know what I mean?

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Like at some point, like reality does still luckily come

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in right, we could talk about where that will go

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if Trump isn't dislodged from power in twenty one or

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twenty eight. And you know, this dictatorship that he's establishing

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continues because eventually he's not going to want to be

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chewed up in the real legal system. But right now

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he's still playing in the real legal system. It's a

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huge advantage for us. We have two good things that

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have happened since election night in twenty four, really dark

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here in twenty five. But one of two things is that.

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And then the second thing is that Trump's plan whatever

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he is planning, and we all know or should know anyway,

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that he is planning something. And a man that didn't

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leave office the first time and had an insurrection, like

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you know, he could just be like, oh, I guess

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we lost here you go, Gavin Newsome. He's not going

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to do that, right, and so we need, you know,

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we need to cover and talk about the reality that

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we're facing. And you know, the courts are holding up,

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but you know, who knows what's coming next. He's we

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saw him last year. He was happy. So like last

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year was a Maga celebration year all year. You know,

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they're feeling very powerful. They are convinced that like America,

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the mass of America was behind them for the crazy

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stuff they wanted to do, when really the massive America

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voted for Trump because he was not in power at

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the time and Joe Biden and Biden was old and

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Harris was too liberal, right, so like it wasn't like

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they were like really like, you know, dissecting Donald Trump.

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And now, of course what has happened. Their memory has

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been refreshed, And you want to know where Trump started

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Election day? He was plus ten among independents. Now he's

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negative sixty.

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Speaker 2: Someone was talking about those people who say, I didn't

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vote for this, and they responded that Trump's like an

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open book exam like it was all right there. And

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so I don't have a lot of patience for people

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who say I didn't vote for this. I don't have

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a lot of patients anyway. I don't know. Pete Boudages

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was in town, right, and I like Pete. I like

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a lot about Pete. But he's he's so generous, you know,

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the Olive Branch, and you know, I know a lot

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of people have come. There may be people in my

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town hall who, man, you're looking around and you're having

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some questions and I'm so glad you're here. And Natalie

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and I got in the car afterwards and we're like, well, okay,

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I appreciate the spirit of it, but we're pissed, like,

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look at what you've done, Look at the damage you've wrot.

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Speaker 3: Oh my god, yes, you.

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Speaker 2: Know, so beyond the quiet quitting and they's sitting on

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your hands in the flop sweat. You know you're gonna

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have to pay some restitution And I don't know, do

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you go there in your brain? How do you feel

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about that? Oh?

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Speaker 3: Well, how I feel and how I act or always

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two different things. I wouldn't be a very good strategist

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if that wasn't the case. Okay, So how I feel

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is I want to reach through my computer and grab

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them the Bible lapel, shake them and be like, what

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the fuck did you think you were doing?

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Speaker 2: Yeah? I get that.

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Speaker 3: It's like a hunderd percent, and I may have indulged

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in a bit of that. Coming out of election night,

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I was pretty mad. I knew what was coming and

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knew it was going to be bad, and I knew

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people were going to suffer, right literally die and suffer

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for the mistake that people had made. So I get

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that right, But like what my life, My life is

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devoted to winning elections, maximizing the probability of Democrats winning

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every race they can win at every level that they

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can win, so that we can stop fascism. That's it.

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That's the only thing I ever consider, right, And so

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in that mission you can see the buddhaj edge strategy

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is very important. There is something that people can look

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at on the cycle on substack my blog that breaks

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this down a little bit to you. But like at

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the end of the day, yes, they're my whole work,

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My dissertation and my academic work is focused on polarization.

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So I'm really familiar. So I know it's very difficult

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for somebody who's a partisan to vote for the other party. Okay,

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so when we think about, like you know that seventy

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five million voters for Donald Trump, you know, yes, forty

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million of them or forty five million are Republican voters.

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They are not just voters who voted for Republicans. There

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are actually Republicans and they are never going to switch

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on Trump ever, no matter what he does, no matter

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Hoovie rapes and Hollie steals. They're sticking with this guy

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to the bitter end. But when we look at the

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other thirty million votes, right, those are people who voted

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for Republicans but are not partisan Republicans. We have to

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have them, guys. I mean it's a matter of need. Right. So, yeah,

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we can win a presidential election again without him. Suddenly,

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this one where the blowback to Trump is going to

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probably carry our Democratic nominee over the line. But we

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need sixty votes in the Senate. That means we have

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to regain a lot of people who cast ballots for

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Republicans normally. We have to get them coke drinkers to

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be pepsi drinkers. And here's something remarkable, something that should

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be impossible. We've seen this happen like five times already

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in the special elections, right, and it Texas State Senate

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district that Trump carried by thirty seven percent, which had

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a majority Republican electorate show up, gave the Democratic nominee

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fifty seven percent of the vote. Right, So we know

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that people are coke drinkers, are open to drinking pepsi

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for the first and only time, and they're open to

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it because Trump's not just not delivering on promises like

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a traditional politician that runs in to the system and

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finds delivery difficult. What's happening with Trump is he is

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delivering the exact opposite of what he promised. And it

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was bad when it was lower prices than he did tariffs.

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It got worse when it was Epstein. Oh, now I'm

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in the Epstein files. But this last thing, the Iran

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wre the no war wars, I mean, that was Trump's

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quinn essential first brand in twenty fifteen. The way he

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won the Republican nomination, in part was by calling the

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Iraq War a mistake, which was very you know, you know,

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it's saying that George Bush made a mistake. No new wars,

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no new wars, no new war. Way don't need the wars.

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Speaker 1: Foreign lands, countries you've never heard of, countries that don't

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even want us there.

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Speaker 3: And so that's his core brand. And what we're seeing

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is people aren't happy about it. And you know, luckily

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it's not some abstract foreign conflict. He managed to make

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the biggest mistake in foreign powers. He blunders in the

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history of the country. And this includes things like the

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Bay of Pigs invasion. This was a mistake, right, Like

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the second he did what he did, he lost, Like

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you cannot. We cannot be in a better position now

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with Iran that we were in the day he sneak

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attacked them when a really good deal was on the table.

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So you know, people are mad, and you know, I separate,

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like my personal desire to be like and like, what

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did you think was going to happen? Or of course

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you didn't care when it was someone else, but now

404
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it's your wife deported, right, I get that. And people

405
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can have at it all they want on social media.

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I'm not going to deny you. You're shading fruit in fun, okay,

407
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and I might even indulge in it here and there

408
00:22:43,759 --> 00:22:46,599
little leopard in the face right with like the latinos

409
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for Trump guy getting deported. That was pretty great. But

410
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at the end of the day, in forward facing comms,

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we need to be telling these folks Trump betrayed you. Okay,

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you were lied to, you were beach trade. Here's how

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you hold him accountable and and that means swallowing pride.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, much more to come with my guest Rachel Bitti

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Coffer in just a second, hag On, thanks so much

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00:23:20,799 --> 00:23:24,160
for your support on Patreon. If you like the show

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00:23:24,160 --> 00:23:27,559
early in commercial freedom, just go to patreon dot com

418
00:23:27,599 --> 00:23:33,640
slash Seth Andrews continuing Now, a conversation which actually originated

419
00:23:33,720 --> 00:23:37,279
on video. If you'd like to watch that YouTube link

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is in the description box, talking with political strategist doctor

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Rachel BiDi Coffer. I'm watching Maga Catholics. Now they have

422
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to be totally figuring out there's a real probably he's

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going hard at Pope Leo. So now you've got that

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cognitive dissonance going on, You've got that conflict in their brains.

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You've been watching the whole pope thing. What are your thoughts?

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Speaker 3: Well pretty closely, in fact, I just cut out an

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00:24:04,240 --> 00:24:07,160
article you're I think on Monday and said Pope versus Trump,

428
00:24:07,240 --> 00:24:09,440
versus the Pope because the Pope is right. Okay, there's

429
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a thing called just war theory, and Trump is in violation,

430
00:24:12,640 --> 00:24:16,720
America is in violation of it. We have committed a

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00:24:16,880 --> 00:24:21,920
war thing, a act of aggressive war. It's the old

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international community knows it. Trump knows it right like he you know,

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oh they had nuclear bonds. Well three weeks ago or

434
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three months before that, he said he wiped out all

435
00:24:30,640 --> 00:24:33,160
their news so which is it? Right? We know that

436
00:24:33,240 --> 00:24:38,599
the imminent threat excuses is fake the pope. That's interesting.

437
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I know a lot of people are like, oh, surely,

438
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maga Catholics are going to not choose Trump over the Pope.

439
00:24:45,759 --> 00:24:51,400
I'm like, oh, don't count them out. And then Hannity right,

440
00:24:51,480 --> 00:24:53,279
He's like, I'm not a Catholic anymore.

441
00:24:54,160 --> 00:24:57,079
Speaker 2: Like which Supreme pontiff are they going to go with

442
00:24:57,279 --> 00:24:59,960
when it's all over with? You know, it's a true

443
00:25:00,200 --> 00:25:03,759
the just war theory originated from a Catholic somewhere, someone

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to Augustan or somebody or I don't know.

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Speaker 3: Just war theory argues that there are certain principles your

446
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military action needs to meet. Okay, there's several component parts

447
00:25:16,839 --> 00:25:20,039
to it, but probably the most important is just cause. Okay.

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00:25:20,559 --> 00:25:24,079
You you know, over all of the years of humanity,

449
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like the common threat of humanity really is is war, Okay,

450
00:25:29,359 --> 00:25:33,440
war and domination, conquering, raping and pillaging and taking over

451
00:25:33,640 --> 00:25:38,480
the people's right. So over time, you know, people became

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a concerned, especially moral leaders in the Catholic Church, which

453
00:25:42,960 --> 00:25:47,119
was the one church until the Protestant Revolution, became aware

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of this idea that you know, there's a conflict between

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what God's teaching about life and the church is like

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mortalent more rules of morality and war killing people, right,

457
00:26:00,039 --> 00:26:04,400
so they needed to kind of find a philosophical framework

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that allows them to get around, like, Okay, God says,

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do not kill what we're killing. And you know, over

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the centuries, especially as war became more technologically advanced, I mean, guys,

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keep in mind, every war in this country prior to

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World War One was like basically horses. But after World

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00:26:23,799 --> 00:26:27,960
War One, we gets this technological leap that produces weapons

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of mass destruction, and so the heat to rein in

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when people wage and aggressive war became much hotter. And

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you know the Raq War, if you guys remember, like

467
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it may have all been bullshit, but they spent six

468
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months presenting evidence to get around and to satisfy the

469
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most important part of just war theory, which is just cause.

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That's the first and most important provision. From there, though

471
00:26:56,720 --> 00:27:02,440
there's also conduct of war provision. It's like proportionality. For example,

472
00:27:02,640 --> 00:27:09,640
so Donald Trump, but Donald Trump, like he didn't just

473
00:27:09,680 --> 00:27:12,160
go do a little thing and Iran, okay, like he

474
00:27:12,240 --> 00:27:17,400
went and decapitated like eighty liters. What I mean think

475
00:27:17,440 --> 00:27:20,559
about like how that event would be received here. Okay,

476
00:27:21,079 --> 00:27:25,599
so it was it was an out of proportion initial shopped.

477
00:27:26,119 --> 00:27:29,559
Then what does he say in these negotiations, Well, you

478
00:27:29,599 --> 00:27:31,920
give me what I want. Reopened the strait that I

479
00:27:31,960 --> 00:27:34,200
you know, I got closed and created this problem. But

480
00:27:34,279 --> 00:27:37,119
you fix my problem where I'm going to wipe out

481
00:27:37,160 --> 00:27:43,240
your civilization. Right, So the proportionality aspects of just war theory,

482
00:27:43,279 --> 00:27:47,079
which are equally important are really being tested here and

483
00:27:47,160 --> 00:27:50,119
maybe tested here in the next coming days. As you know,

484
00:27:50,160 --> 00:27:53,519
the negotiations seemed to be falling apart when.

485
00:27:53,400 --> 00:27:57,079
Speaker 2: You say I hate Iran, the regime of Iran, like

486
00:27:57,119 --> 00:27:59,480
we talk about the Iran Revolution.

487
00:27:59,359 --> 00:28:02,440
Speaker 3: Talk about I hate all religious like. So if you're

488
00:28:02,440 --> 00:28:07,359
a religious fundamentalist, I don't give a shit if your Jewish, Christian, Muslim, Hindu,

489
00:28:07,559 --> 00:28:10,880
no matter to me. Don't want you near me, certainly don't.

490
00:28:10,960 --> 00:28:14,160
Speaker 2: Yeah, we don't want Gilead, right, this state is not

491
00:28:14,240 --> 00:28:17,000
your church we talk about there there is a movement

492
00:28:17,680 --> 00:28:21,960
of people in within the borders of Iran who are protesting,

493
00:28:22,240 --> 00:28:24,440
often at the risk of their own lives, the regime.

494
00:28:25,000 --> 00:28:26,720
But I mean, I understand the spirit of what you're

495
00:28:26,759 --> 00:28:29,960
saying Iran, since nineteen seventy nine has been a human

496
00:28:30,119 --> 00:28:33,920
rights nightmare. So by saying that the war itself is unjust, again,

497
00:28:33,960 --> 00:28:36,039
this is an example of many things can be true

498
00:28:36,079 --> 00:28:38,359
at the same time. It doesn't mean that, hey, we

499
00:28:38,480 --> 00:28:42,640
love Iran and we think the theocracy is valid and

500
00:28:42,720 --> 00:28:45,480
legitimate and should continue. That's not the argument.

501
00:28:45,680 --> 00:28:47,720
Speaker 3: Yeah, I mean, that's not the argument. And you know,

502
00:28:47,799 --> 00:28:51,920
here's the thing. If he had acted in January when

503
00:28:51,960 --> 00:28:55,160
those protesters went out to the street to popple the regime,

504
00:28:55,759 --> 00:28:58,240
and he had acted with some restraint and not just

505
00:28:58,319 --> 00:29:03,240
taking out eighty people on the whole like he could

506
00:29:03,279 --> 00:29:05,680
have done this, I think he could have actually made

507
00:29:06,119 --> 00:29:09,640
maybe seeded a democratic revolution or at least it will

508
00:29:09,680 --> 00:29:11,759
start that way. We all know it didn't end like

509
00:29:11,799 --> 00:29:15,839
that with the Arab Spring Right revolution and Iran. But

510
00:29:15,920 --> 00:29:18,559
that's not what he did. And you know, instead, you

511
00:29:18,559 --> 00:29:21,200
know what has happened now, And my guess, I mean,

512
00:29:21,240 --> 00:29:23,799
it's very hard to know anything that's the truth because

513
00:29:24,079 --> 00:29:27,839
we've never had a position. I mean, the government lies. No,

514
00:29:27,920 --> 00:29:30,559
it does not really now it does, Okay, now it

515
00:29:31,359 --> 00:29:34,279
really really bad. So we don't know what's happening because

516
00:29:34,319 --> 00:29:36,880
Trump will say they're in negotiations, and then Iran will

517
00:29:36,880 --> 00:29:40,359
say no, no negotiations, and so who do you trust? Trumph?

518
00:29:40,680 --> 00:29:42,839
We know he can't trust a Rand's leadership, but you

519
00:29:42,880 --> 00:29:45,720
know you can't trust. It's a real mess and trying

520
00:29:45,759 --> 00:29:48,640
to figure out what's happening. But my guess is that

521
00:29:48,680 --> 00:29:54,319
the sheer extent of that attack, this just a broad,

522
00:29:54,519 --> 00:29:59,240
sweeping murder and assassination of so many public figures, has

523
00:29:59,400 --> 00:30:04,680
probably can it made this regime stronger, not weaker, especially

524
00:30:04,720 --> 00:30:08,240
as he's moved on to these threats of mass genocide.

525
00:30:08,759 --> 00:30:10,160
Speaker 2: Is it one of those things where they cut the

526
00:30:10,200 --> 00:30:12,640
head off the snake and the new head just grows

527
00:30:12,720 --> 00:30:14,880
right back over and over and over again.

528
00:30:15,400 --> 00:30:17,440
Speaker 3: I mean, it's worse than that, But the sun that's

529
00:30:17,480 --> 00:30:20,200
taking over is much worse than the ready the other

530
00:30:20,640 --> 00:30:25,079
guy was. At least that's what the CIA file say

531
00:30:25,119 --> 00:30:29,880
about this guy, like he's a hardline militant religious extremist

532
00:30:29,920 --> 00:30:34,000
who was so extreme that he was too extreme for

533
00:30:34,119 --> 00:30:37,200
the you know, current, the old leadership.

534
00:30:37,440 --> 00:30:39,599
Speaker 2: That's what it's like when we've been out and took

535
00:30:39,599 --> 00:30:42,279
out Saddam, right. I mean, no one's saying Saddam was

536
00:30:42,319 --> 00:30:46,160
anything but an absolute monster, a murderous monster. But without

537
00:30:46,200 --> 00:30:49,200
having a plan, without having a good planner, even the

538
00:30:49,279 --> 00:30:52,119
facts in place, the vacuum that was left led to

539
00:30:52,240 --> 00:30:57,279
isis and you don't say it like we are very shortsighted.

540
00:30:58,799 --> 00:31:00,960
Is that maybe that's a human thing? Is it certainly

541
00:31:01,000 --> 00:31:03,200
an American thing? I don't know how you want to

542
00:31:03,200 --> 00:31:03,960
comment on that.

543
00:31:04,079 --> 00:31:06,079
Speaker 3: I mean, there's a reason guys the rest of the

544
00:31:06,079 --> 00:31:09,680
world was like, oh, hell, no, okay about this, like

545
00:31:09,759 --> 00:31:12,599
they you know, we laughed about the Coalition of the

546
00:31:12,599 --> 00:31:16,079
Willing in two thousand and four because it had you know, Ubeka,

547
00:31:16,160 --> 00:31:18,920
Stan in it, but it had France and England and

548
00:31:19,039 --> 00:31:22,200
Germany and all these other Western NATO alliances that in fact,

549
00:31:22,240 --> 00:31:24,640
that's the only time NATO's ever been in voked Article five,

550
00:31:25,160 --> 00:31:27,960
and we invoked it to get the Western democracies to

551
00:31:28,000 --> 00:31:31,319
support our invasion, which was by the way, completely also

552
00:31:31,440 --> 00:31:36,759
a war of aggression into Iraq. Right, So you know,

553
00:31:37,079 --> 00:31:43,480
the idea that our foreign allies are so abhor like

554
00:31:43,720 --> 00:31:46,839
they find what Trump has done in Iran abhorrent. They

555
00:31:46,920 --> 00:31:51,960
know it violates international criminal war crime law. Certainly if

556
00:31:51,960 --> 00:31:55,559
he carries through on these this plan to kill bridges

557
00:31:55,599 --> 00:31:59,279
and infrastructure, which we know will be human shielded, right,

558
00:31:59,279 --> 00:32:02,720
there will be, whether they're there by choice or love

559
00:32:02,759 --> 00:32:04,720
of the regime, because you know, there is some portion

560
00:32:04,839 --> 00:32:07,759
of the population that probably does love the regime, always

561
00:32:07,759 --> 00:32:10,759
has loved it, right, it doesn't matter why they're on

562
00:32:10,839 --> 00:32:14,720
that bridge if Trump blows them up, Like, imagine how

563
00:32:14,759 --> 00:32:17,160
the world will view America. And you know, as a

564
00:32:17,160 --> 00:32:19,680
person who's been studying the Third Reiche for five years,

565
00:32:19,680 --> 00:32:21,839
I can tell you this. You never think about the

566
00:32:21,960 --> 00:32:25,599
Germans that opposed Trump or Hitler, do you You don't.

567
00:32:25,880 --> 00:32:29,119
You just think about Germany and Hitler to the world.

568
00:32:29,319 --> 00:32:31,559
You know, even those of us that didn't support this,

569
00:32:31,720 --> 00:32:34,880
that had worked devoted our elias to fighting it, It

570
00:32:34,920 --> 00:32:38,440
doesn't matter to the world. America has lost its way,

571
00:32:38,480 --> 00:32:41,680
and that means all of us and our own national reputation,

572
00:32:41,799 --> 00:32:44,960
which liberals you know might sneer at. Oh well, it's

573
00:32:44,960 --> 00:32:47,839
all based on colonialism anyway. Well, you know what, it's

574
00:32:47,920 --> 00:32:50,480
nice to live in a hedgemonic power, especially for women.

575
00:32:50,839 --> 00:32:52,759
You don't have to look very far to find out

576
00:32:52,799 --> 00:32:56,519
how women fare in countries other countries like I ran right,

577
00:32:57,279 --> 00:32:59,839
and like, you know, the idea of Western liberal is

578
00:32:59,839 --> 00:33:05,359
a you know, rejecting America. It should really hit home

579
00:33:05,400 --> 00:33:08,000
to people how out of bounds what Trump has done

580
00:33:08,079 --> 00:33:10,680
in Iran is I.

581
00:33:10,640 --> 00:33:12,920
Speaker 2: Want to come back to left in just a second,

582
00:33:12,920 --> 00:33:15,319
because I know you have opinions on this. You were

583
00:33:15,319 --> 00:33:18,279
on Bill Maher at least once. Is that right?

584
00:33:18,480 --> 00:33:19,240
Speaker 3: Twice?

585
00:33:20,039 --> 00:33:23,480
Speaker 2: What's your take on Bill? Because you know there have

586
00:33:23,480 --> 00:33:25,960
been times I'm like, yay, you know, I'm glad you

587
00:33:26,000 --> 00:33:28,079
said it, Bill, And then there are other times he

588
00:33:28,240 --> 00:33:31,119
issues an opinion and I want to crawl through the

589
00:33:31,160 --> 00:33:34,119
monitor and into his studio and shake the man and

590
00:33:34,160 --> 00:33:37,440
say what, what the hell have you have an opinion

591
00:33:37,720 --> 00:33:40,799
on the man? After being face to face twice?

592
00:33:41,000 --> 00:33:43,400
Speaker 3: Well, the first time was very pleasant and I was

593
00:33:43,480 --> 00:33:46,960
his side guest panel person, interview, not on the panel.

594
00:33:47,000 --> 00:33:50,559
The second time is with Rob Reiner Rest in peace, Rob,

595
00:33:51,319 --> 00:33:55,359
and just Bill, and he was in a mood and

596
00:33:55,519 --> 00:33:58,440
I had a mission. My vision was to save democracy.

597
00:33:58,480 --> 00:34:01,359
I couldn't let Bill get in the way that you know,

598
00:34:01,559 --> 00:34:05,200
here's my position on Bill Maher. I think that a

599
00:34:05,240 --> 00:34:10,039
lot of people who are more centrist Democrats do find

600
00:34:10,199 --> 00:34:13,559
the woke stuff off putting. And there's no audience or

601
00:34:13,599 --> 00:34:16,840
no subset of the population that found like the woke

602
00:34:16,920 --> 00:34:21,320
stuff more off putting than comedians, right, because they suddenly

603
00:34:21,360 --> 00:34:25,360
found themselves in situations where even in a comedic space,

604
00:34:25,480 --> 00:34:28,079
a joking space, they could make a joke and then

605
00:34:28,119 --> 00:34:30,239
be treated like it was a comment that they made

606
00:34:30,320 --> 00:34:33,639
in a serious dialogue, right, And so like, I think

607
00:34:33,639 --> 00:34:38,920
that started his upset. Nos. So, you know, Bill's right.

608
00:34:39,119 --> 00:34:41,360
There's a lot of things that Bill's right about. I mean,

609
00:34:41,400 --> 00:34:46,239
the wokeness was absolutely toxic for Democrats. Nobody wants to

610
00:34:46,239 --> 00:34:48,800
be nagged in their day to day lives and told,

611
00:34:49,239 --> 00:34:53,719
you know things like I mean, for me, I'm outcome focused. Right,

612
00:34:53,800 --> 00:34:56,639
So if the purpose of DEI was to create more

613
00:34:56,719 --> 00:35:02,079
tolerance and instead it creates more intolerance, I'm willing to

614
00:35:02,119 --> 00:35:06,079
reassess my approach to things, right. And So, you know,

615
00:35:06,440 --> 00:35:09,639
I think Bill, you know, he has his moments. I

616
00:35:10,079 --> 00:35:13,119
just wish he would bring me back on. He doesn't

617
00:35:13,199 --> 00:35:17,719
understand how hard people in the party are working to

618
00:35:17,800 --> 00:35:21,159
write the ship on, you know, getting us into position

619
00:35:21,280 --> 00:35:24,599
to be attractive enough to win Senate majorities. Because guys,

620
00:35:24,920 --> 00:35:26,719
I mean, unless you just want to be in the

621
00:35:26,760 --> 00:35:30,039
opposition forever and never get anything done, and our entire

622
00:35:30,360 --> 00:35:33,159
agenda is always just about stopping the horrible shit that

623
00:35:33,199 --> 00:35:35,559
they have a lot of power to do. We have

624
00:35:35,639 --> 00:35:38,440
to get serious about how to expand this coalition and

625
00:35:38,480 --> 00:35:41,199
get people to vote for Democrats. And you know, one

626
00:35:41,199 --> 00:35:44,000
of those ways is by returning to its base bread

627
00:35:44,039 --> 00:35:47,199
and butter issues. When I do my talks to Democratic groups,

628
00:35:48,119 --> 00:35:50,800
I show them slides and I like, look the electric

629
00:35:50,920 --> 00:35:54,000
coming out of the voting pool voting booth in twenty

630
00:35:54,039 --> 00:35:58,039
four knew only two things about Democrats. Everything else they

631
00:35:58,079 --> 00:36:00,679
were fifty to fifty about. It could be Republicans, it

632
00:36:00,719 --> 00:36:04,599
could be Democrats. And those two things were LGBT rights

633
00:36:05,000 --> 00:36:09,280
and to a lesser extent, abortion. Okay, so ninety percent

634
00:36:09,360 --> 00:36:12,480
of them new that Democrats stood for LGBT rights. It

635
00:36:12,559 --> 00:36:16,079
was the least important of the category of issues, and.

636
00:36:16,159 --> 00:36:21,719
Speaker 4: Medicare, social security, education funding, all of the heart and

637
00:36:21,800 --> 00:36:26,719
soul of the FDR Democratic brand was fifty to fifty.

638
00:36:26,920 --> 00:36:29,400
Speaker 3: Voters are like, oh, Republicans are just as good on

639
00:36:29,440 --> 00:36:33,400
social security as Democrats. Right, So like, obviously our brand

640
00:36:33,559 --> 00:36:36,039
on the social issues is set. We don't need to

641
00:36:36,119 --> 00:36:39,159
keep going. People know that about us. A rights are

642
00:36:39,159 --> 00:36:42,760
not dropping people. In terms of policy, what we're talking

643
00:36:42,800 --> 00:36:45,079
about is making sure that we're telling the rest of

644
00:36:45,119 --> 00:36:48,159
the story about what you get when you vote for Democrats,

645
00:36:48,199 --> 00:36:50,960
because it can't just be civil rights. It has to

646
00:36:51,000 --> 00:36:53,639
have an economic program. And so you know, a lot

647
00:36:53,639 --> 00:36:56,639
of that work is about getting people you know, up

648
00:36:56,639 --> 00:36:58,840
to speed on that. And you know, Bill, you know,

649
00:36:59,320 --> 00:37:02,360
whether you like we're not, he has an influential platform

650
00:37:02,480 --> 00:37:05,800
that you know, I regret not having access.

651
00:37:05,400 --> 00:37:08,400
Speaker 2: To want me invited me, and he never would, but

652
00:37:08,519 --> 00:37:11,360
I'd appear. And I think, you know, I feel the

653
00:37:11,360 --> 00:37:13,519
same about Rogan in a little bit of a different

654
00:37:13,519 --> 00:37:18,960
way too. Rogan makes me crazy. But if I was

655
00:37:19,039 --> 00:37:21,719
able to show up by imitation and say what I want,

656
00:37:21,920 --> 00:37:23,679
I'd say yes, yeah, oh heck yeah.

657
00:37:23,760 --> 00:37:26,440
Speaker 3: I mean the idea that we shouldn't go into these spaces.

658
00:37:26,880 --> 00:37:29,599
We have so many self defeating things. Okay, we're going

659
00:37:29,639 --> 00:37:33,079
to boycott everything. Our candidates can't take money except for

660
00:37:33,159 --> 00:37:36,199
small donations, when the other side has Elon Musk drop

661
00:37:36,199 --> 00:37:39,840
in two hundred and forty mili out of his own pocket. Right, like,

662
00:37:39,920 --> 00:37:45,119
we're doing things to ourselves necessary. And one of them

663
00:37:45,199 --> 00:37:48,199
is like this idea that somehow Gavin's a trader or

664
00:37:48,280 --> 00:37:52,000
pizza trader because they went on some right wing you

665
00:37:52,000 --> 00:37:54,800
know podcasts, right, like no, we need to go into

666
00:37:54,800 --> 00:37:57,440
those spaces. Like I said with Charlie Kirk. The reason

667
00:37:57,519 --> 00:37:59,920
I said yes, and the way that I postured myself

668
00:38:00,239 --> 00:38:04,400
was very professor, very calm, very rational, because I wasn't

669
00:38:04,480 --> 00:38:08,360
talking to Charlie Kirk. I was talking to his audience,

670
00:38:08,599 --> 00:38:14,239
which is massive, which is misinformed intentionally right, And so yes,

671
00:38:14,320 --> 00:38:18,679
if you get the opportunity, please take this messaging, take

672
00:38:19,119 --> 00:38:23,000
the reality of the democratic person, because it's a very

673
00:38:23,159 --> 00:38:26,519
caricatured right. I mean now you can see that in

674
00:38:26,559 --> 00:38:29,719
the No King's rally, the first No King's rally. MAGA

675
00:38:29,920 --> 00:38:33,360
reacted on Twitter on excellent like this, wa an, why

676
00:38:33,400 --> 00:38:36,760
are all these white people showing up a democratic rallies?

677
00:38:36,960 --> 00:38:38,400
Who are all these white old people?

678
00:38:38,920 --> 00:38:42,159
Speaker 2: What I heard was we were all paid by George sorows.

679
00:38:42,239 --> 00:38:44,639
I guess you did. Did you get your sorrows check?

680
00:38:44,679 --> 00:38:48,199
I'm still waiting on my venmo, you know or whatever.

681
00:38:48,559 --> 00:38:49,920
I don't want to let this go, but I don't

682
00:38:49,920 --> 00:38:51,920
want to dwell on it, but I got to come.

683
00:38:52,119 --> 00:38:56,519
Like I'm sometimes called woke, although people can't define woll

684
00:38:56,840 --> 00:38:58,960
It's one of those things. Everything I hate is woke

685
00:39:00,159 --> 00:39:04,199
I'm pro DEI I like diversity and inclusion programs in

686
00:39:04,280 --> 00:39:06,679
my mind though, And we on the left like to

687
00:39:06,719 --> 00:39:10,679
think that we're immune from extreme binary thinking, from being

688
00:39:10,800 --> 00:39:14,280
knee jerkers and hyper reactive. But I feel like in

689
00:39:14,320 --> 00:39:17,679
many of those conversations, the enemy is extremism, right, this

690
00:39:17,800 --> 00:39:20,000
sort of dogmatism. Is that fair?

691
00:39:20,400 --> 00:39:22,840
Speaker 3: Oh? It's a huge issue, right, I mean, right now

692
00:39:23,440 --> 00:39:26,880
we are focused on Republican Party extremism because it has

693
00:39:27,320 --> 00:39:32,079
elevated itself to positions of power. They control the committees,

694
00:39:32,079 --> 00:39:34,559
they control the party now, they control the DOJ and

695
00:39:34,599 --> 00:39:37,920
the FBI, they control the presidency, they control the courts.

696
00:39:38,400 --> 00:39:43,239
Radical people like Alido in these major positions of power. Now,

697
00:39:43,239 --> 00:39:46,000
when you look at the democratic far left problem, and

698
00:39:46,000 --> 00:39:49,079
by the way, I do find far left as separate

699
00:39:49,079 --> 00:39:52,599
from progressives. Not talking about progressives, I am talking about

700
00:39:52,599 --> 00:39:55,079
people who refuse to vote for Harris in twenty twenty

701
00:39:55,119 --> 00:39:58,760
four because she was too moderate or gozam right, Like

702
00:39:58,960 --> 00:39:59,880
if you're now those.

703
00:39:59,760 --> 00:40:03,280
Speaker 2: Peo left threw those people rightel those people.

704
00:40:03,119 --> 00:40:06,800
Speaker 3: Right, and those motherfuckers have no place in my life anymore.

705
00:40:06,800 --> 00:40:10,960
I'm done after eleven years of begging them, rationalizing them,

706
00:40:11,000 --> 00:40:12,840
trying to show them, and we would be living in

707
00:40:12,880 --> 00:40:15,440
a fucking liberal utopia right now if it wasn't for

708
00:40:15,480 --> 00:40:18,119
those people, because Clinton would have had control of the

709
00:40:18,119 --> 00:40:20,280
Court and we would have had a first liberal majority

710
00:40:20,320 --> 00:40:22,400
in years and we could have used it to band

711
00:40:22,440 --> 00:40:26,880
partisan Jerry Mannering and bands. But anyway, that shit is sad, right,

712
00:40:27,239 --> 00:40:29,840
So those folks are separate. Please don't get offended. If

713
00:40:29,840 --> 00:40:32,639
you're just your rank and file Harris voting progressive. I

714
00:40:32,639 --> 00:40:35,119
I'm not talking about you when I say this. The

715
00:40:35,119 --> 00:40:38,880
far left is about six or seven members of the House, okay,

716
00:40:39,400 --> 00:40:43,079
and you know they are even then not they all

717
00:40:43,159 --> 00:40:48,079
voted for Harris. They don't have committee chairmanships, they don't

718
00:40:48,159 --> 00:40:52,119
lead the DNC, they do not have, you know, the presidency.

719
00:40:52,280 --> 00:40:54,519
They aren't sitting on Supreme Court. Though I would argue

720
00:40:54,519 --> 00:40:59,239
that Sodemayer and Kagan are definitely ideologically square liberals. They

721
00:40:59,239 --> 00:41:03,039
are ideologic in the same way that the conservatives are,

722
00:41:03,199 --> 00:41:07,679
but not obviously as bad. But it's bad. Yeah, extremism

723
00:41:07,800 --> 00:41:12,559
is very, very, very bad, and we are not immune

724
00:41:12,559 --> 00:41:16,920
to it. We can see this happen, you know, really

725
00:41:17,000 --> 00:41:20,800
seeing this happen over Israel. So now the third Rael

726
00:41:20,840 --> 00:41:24,920
of Democratic primary is going to be supporting or vocalizing

727
00:41:24,960 --> 00:41:28,599
any kind of support in my opinion for Israel. And

728
00:41:28,679 --> 00:41:31,599
you know, I separate net Nya, who's Israel. So I'm

729
00:41:31,719 --> 00:41:34,880
very disapproving of net Nyaho and what's happening with Israel.

730
00:41:35,320 --> 00:41:38,480
But I don't not support the state of Israel because

731
00:41:38,519 --> 00:41:41,119
I know that Jews make up point oh two through

732
00:41:41,119 --> 00:41:44,239
some of the world's population and control just one country,

733
00:41:44,400 --> 00:41:46,679
just one. There's only one. So they may.

734
00:41:46,800 --> 00:41:50,760
Speaker 2: The Jews of Israel hate net and Yahoo and despise

735
00:41:51,159 --> 00:41:54,280
the genocide and Gaza. Yeah, I mean, so it's not

736
00:41:54,320 --> 00:41:55,360
like they're a monolith.

737
00:41:55,599 --> 00:41:59,400
Speaker 3: They are not a monolith. So you know, it's extremism

738
00:41:59,440 --> 00:42:02,440
is dangerous and we knew that, Like you know, my

739
00:42:02,480 --> 00:42:05,800
dissertation was on polarization in twenty fifteen, and of that

740
00:42:05,840 --> 00:42:09,119
community of scholars, like we knew, we'd go like, oh,

741
00:42:09,159 --> 00:42:11,559
this is not good. Things are not going well. Things

742
00:42:11,599 --> 00:42:13,920
could get bad. If I could go back and this

743
00:42:14,000 --> 00:42:16,400
is I'm a person who Cassandra's most things. I see

744
00:42:16,440 --> 00:42:19,159
them coming. But I still would be shocked if I

745
00:42:19,159 --> 00:42:21,400
could go back and talk to myself in twenty fifteen

746
00:42:21,440 --> 00:42:25,480
and tell myself, hey, in eleven years America will go

747
00:42:25,559 --> 00:42:29,880
from full democracy in the indexes to flawed democracy to

748
00:42:30,000 --> 00:42:33,920
collect to collapsing democracy in twenty twenty six. Right, like

749
00:42:34,480 --> 00:42:41,760
that is extraordinary. It's required full attention on radicalism and mega.

750
00:42:41,880 --> 00:42:44,119
But it doesn't mean that we don't want to make

751
00:42:44,159 --> 00:42:49,760
democratic reforms, small d democratic reforms going forward that mitigate

752
00:42:50,159 --> 00:42:53,239
partisanship as much as we can in the system.

753
00:42:53,760 --> 00:42:57,239
Speaker 2: One last break more with Rachel Bitakoffer as we talk

754
00:42:57,320 --> 00:43:08,280
about potential front runners to twenty eight and more. Hang on.

755
00:43:08,599 --> 00:43:13,280
Final segment with my guest political scientist and author Rachel Bitakoffer.

756
00:43:13,679 --> 00:43:15,039
What's the left getting wrong?

757
00:43:15,840 --> 00:43:16,000
Speaker 3: Right?

758
00:43:16,239 --> 00:43:20,559
Speaker 2: We want to win, but it's hurting cats, and you know,

759
00:43:20,599 --> 00:43:24,039
we don't I don't know, we don't necessarily maybe Obama qualifies,

760
00:43:24,079 --> 00:43:27,079
but we don't revolve around savior figures. I mean, let's

761
00:43:27,119 --> 00:43:29,639
face it. Trump is kind of a proxy savior for

762
00:43:29,800 --> 00:43:32,840
at least the Christian nationalists right, anointed by God. We've

763
00:43:32,880 --> 00:43:36,000
got the AI golden statues, we've got all of he

764
00:43:36,079 --> 00:43:38,400
wants to be on rush More and people support that,

765
00:43:38,880 --> 00:43:40,639
you know, and we have a hard time getting our

766
00:43:40,679 --> 00:43:45,320
shit together on the left. You have seen us squander right,

767
00:43:45,360 --> 00:43:50,559
we pull failure out of the jaws of victory all

768
00:43:50,599 --> 00:43:52,199
the time. Why do you think that is?

769
00:43:53,519 --> 00:43:57,679
Speaker 3: It's our inability to centralize and accept that voters know nothing,

770
00:43:57,960 --> 00:44:01,360
are not smart engaged in four none of those three things,

771
00:44:01,400 --> 00:44:05,400
and therefore only and will be more susceptible vote on

772
00:44:06,159 --> 00:44:10,599
hyper propagandized gut style messaging, and that they're getting that

773
00:44:10,679 --> 00:44:13,159
from the other side. That's how the other side conducts

774
00:44:13,159 --> 00:44:17,239
their persuasion campaigns. Hurting cats is right. I wrote a

775
00:44:17,239 --> 00:44:20,760
piece in the cycle that people can find in the archives.

776
00:44:21,199 --> 00:44:24,119
It followed a piece on why Democrats should wedge, not

777
00:44:24,159 --> 00:44:28,599
just run on affordability, but tie Republicans to high prices

778
00:44:28,639 --> 00:44:31,960
and then attack them relentlessly. And then the very next

779
00:44:32,079 --> 00:44:34,719
article I published was and this is why we're not

780
00:44:34,800 --> 00:44:38,159
going to do that, And I laid out like our

781
00:44:38,239 --> 00:44:43,079
psychology right, like, yeah, our biggest problem is ourselves where

782
00:44:43,159 --> 00:44:46,119
we think everyone is like us, and I think humans

783
00:44:46,199 --> 00:44:49,800
do that. I think humans understand, like there's different strokes

784
00:44:49,840 --> 00:44:53,400
for different folks, Okay, but I don't think you really understand,

785
00:44:53,440 --> 00:44:57,360
like your entire world is contingent on you, your IQ,

786
00:44:57,760 --> 00:45:01,679
your worldview, and your own interest in perspective. So in

787
00:45:01,719 --> 00:45:04,679
your world, you know who the governor is I can mention,

788
00:45:04,840 --> 00:45:07,840
Katie Porter, you know who that is, Liz Warren, You

789
00:45:08,280 --> 00:45:13,159
are about three percent of the public, Like in terms

790
00:45:13,159 --> 00:45:16,039
of political information, like most people who are going to

791
00:45:16,159 --> 00:45:19,039
vote in twenty twenty six and twenty twenty eight don't

792
00:45:19,039 --> 00:45:21,360
even really know who their governor is. When I talk

793
00:45:21,400 --> 00:45:26,360
to normal Oregonians, they usually cite the old governors, our

794
00:45:26,400 --> 00:45:30,800
current ones getting ready to run for reelection, and we

795
00:45:30,880 --> 00:45:34,559
will refuse to accept, like what does that mean for

796
00:45:34,679 --> 00:45:37,400
how we talk to people because we're going in with

797
00:45:37,480 --> 00:45:41,199
these detailed wonky policy thinks, Well, people don't give a

798
00:45:41,199 --> 00:45:43,679
shit about policy, They don't have an interest in politics

799
00:45:43,800 --> 00:45:47,039
or policy. Don't even understand it for them, Like there's

800
00:45:47,079 --> 00:45:49,400
a president. They know that there's other parts of the

801
00:45:49,400 --> 00:45:51,440
government and something called a Congress, so they don't really

802
00:45:51,519 --> 00:45:54,559
understand anything about how that works. It begins and ends

803
00:45:54,599 --> 00:45:57,239
in the White House and with the president. And so,

804
00:45:57,480 --> 00:46:00,320
you know, we have to stop wanting to go to

805
00:46:00,360 --> 00:46:02,760
war with the electorate that we would like to have

806
00:46:03,280 --> 00:46:06,280
and go to war with the electorate that we actually have,

807
00:46:06,760 --> 00:46:09,920
which means that we have to be mean. We have

808
00:46:10,039 --> 00:46:15,239
to make our campaign's opponent centric because the swing pool

809
00:46:15,320 --> 00:46:17,719
if we want them to know that. You know, the

810
00:46:17,800 --> 00:46:22,559
Republican Ohio governor candidate against Sharon Brown is an extremist

811
00:46:23,000 --> 00:46:26,360
who you know helped Trump betray them. We have to

812
00:46:26,480 --> 00:46:32,480
pay in ads, which we need money for to do,

813
00:46:32,519 --> 00:46:33,599
to do that work.

814
00:46:33,800 --> 00:46:37,880
Speaker 2: Yeah, this whole hey, typical politician, and we need to

815
00:46:37,920 --> 00:46:41,760
reach across the aisle kind of thing. You say we

816
00:46:41,800 --> 00:46:44,639
need to go hard or those two different conversations.

817
00:46:44,760 --> 00:46:47,280
Speaker 3: No, you can do all that shit in your town halls,

818
00:46:47,320 --> 00:46:49,639
like Pete does all that shit in his town halls,

819
00:46:49,639 --> 00:46:51,519
and I'd keep all of that the same. But when

820
00:46:51,519 --> 00:46:54,159
it comes to what matters in a campaign, what I'm

821
00:46:54,159 --> 00:46:56,280
trying to get Democrats to understand is not what happens

822
00:46:56,320 --> 00:46:58,960
on social and it's not what happens at an event,

823
00:46:59,039 --> 00:47:01,519
because only freaks weirdos go to an event. When you

824
00:47:01,559 --> 00:47:05,280
talk about a governor's debate, like California's governor, big ass

825
00:47:05,480 --> 00:47:08,639
important position, you want to know what the audience size

826
00:47:08,679 --> 00:47:10,360
for that will be. It'll be like less than five

827
00:47:10,360 --> 00:47:13,760
percent of Californians will even watch that debate. Right, So

828
00:47:15,239 --> 00:47:18,039
the candidates don't have to change anything. They can do

829
00:47:18,119 --> 00:47:21,599
all their feels about big tent whatever, because that stuff

830
00:47:21,679 --> 00:47:24,480
is important. Right now, people feel betrayed and we want

831
00:47:24,760 --> 00:47:26,320
We're not going to be able to tap into that

832
00:47:26,320 --> 00:47:29,360
betrayal unless we open our arms to them. Right, but

833
00:47:29,599 --> 00:47:34,519
the paid ads better be seventy percent, in my opinion,

834
00:47:34,559 --> 00:47:39,400
one hundred percent. Contrast messaging. Okay, but you want attack

835
00:47:39,519 --> 00:47:43,719
the opponent and here's the hero. Okay, adapt the opponent,

836
00:47:43,960 --> 00:47:47,519
here's the hero. We've seen this work all across the map.

837
00:47:47,559 --> 00:47:50,400
We saw it work in twenty two in Arizona, in Michigan,

838
00:47:50,679 --> 00:47:53,920
in Wisconsin, Ben Wickler and the Wisconsin Dems are big

839
00:47:53,960 --> 00:47:57,960
believers in that strategy. Elected state Supreme Court justices even

840
00:47:58,000 --> 00:48:00,719
when Trump was still in office using that strategy by

841
00:48:00,800 --> 00:48:05,039
huge margins. It's not difficult. And yet, like we get

842
00:48:05,039 --> 00:48:08,079
into these talking head pundent things. I see this on

843
00:48:08,239 --> 00:48:10,119
MS NOW every day. I mean I want to go

844
00:48:10,159 --> 00:48:13,039
through my TV like 'mus now all the time because

845
00:48:13,079 --> 00:48:15,599
you know, everyone's an election expert, but I'm the only

846
00:48:15,639 --> 00:48:19,079
one with like a PhD. And it's not the same thing.

847
00:48:19,519 --> 00:48:21,880
And they get shit wrong all the don't right. And

848
00:48:21,920 --> 00:48:24,039
one of the things that they get wrong is like, well,

849
00:48:24,079 --> 00:48:27,639
deaths need to run on something. No, they gess Trump

850
00:48:27,800 --> 00:48:31,039
run on how This guy's a fucking shit show. He

851
00:48:31,199 --> 00:48:33,960
betrayed you, and we're going to put a stop to it.

852
00:48:33,960 --> 00:48:37,119
It's not you know, I don't need like the things

853
00:48:37,159 --> 00:48:40,320
that you're progressive followers who are committed to you on

854
00:48:40,719 --> 00:48:43,199
X need or say that they need they don't need,

855
00:48:43,239 --> 00:48:45,639
and why that's dangerous because I don't want to like

856
00:48:45,760 --> 00:48:49,159
neglect to tell people why it's dangerous. It's dangerous because

857
00:48:49,199 --> 00:48:52,679
of this. Okay. The buying campaign was wedging Project twenty

858
00:48:52,679 --> 00:48:56,719
twenty five. We made it. We made it a household name, okay,

859
00:48:57,519 --> 00:48:59,440
and people didn't need to know everything about it. They

860
00:48:59,519 --> 00:49:02,840
understood one thing Trump is project twenty twenty five, and

861
00:49:02,880 --> 00:49:06,119
twenty twenty five is bad, right, And instead we get

862
00:49:06,159 --> 00:49:10,719
the switch right, and Harris's consultants listen to the Beltway media.

863
00:49:10,880 --> 00:49:13,440
That Way media is like, well, no one knows who

864
00:49:13,480 --> 00:49:16,360
Harris is. They're going to have to define her. So

865
00:49:16,400 --> 00:49:18,480
that's what they did. They switched and you can see

866
00:49:18,480 --> 00:49:20,360
this in the data. It's not an opinion. This is

867
00:49:20,400 --> 00:49:25,199
a data based analysis where they spent what messaging they

868
00:49:25,199 --> 00:49:29,119
were pushing closing out it was the opportunity economy, tax

869
00:49:29,159 --> 00:49:33,400
stuff and joy. Okay, they stopped wedging Trump and why

870
00:49:33,480 --> 00:49:36,559
that mattered. Well, we get the exit polling out of

871
00:49:36,559 --> 00:49:40,760
the battleground states. Guess what, sixty percent of swing voters

872
00:49:41,280 --> 00:49:44,880
thought Trump had favorable memories of Trump's first term. That's

873
00:49:44,920 --> 00:49:46,039
what they told bolsters.

874
00:49:47,000 --> 00:49:49,960
Speaker 2: Well, how much of kamalist defeat was just straight up

875
00:49:50,239 --> 00:49:53,119
sexism and racism? I mean, I mean we have to

876
00:49:53,159 --> 00:49:55,519
talk about that. I mean, I'm surrounded by some people

877
00:49:55,559 --> 00:49:58,000
are like, hell, no, I'd rather die than vote for

878
00:49:58,079 --> 00:50:01,239
a black or a woman and sit in that same way.

879
00:50:01,599 --> 00:50:04,159
That's certainly part of the mix, right that is I.

880
00:50:04,079 --> 00:50:06,440
Speaker 3: Mean, frankly, I mean, here's the thing right now. So

881
00:50:06,519 --> 00:50:08,760
you said Democrats want to win, but they do, and

882
00:50:09,039 --> 00:50:11,440
I almost ignored that and forgot it. But it's so

883
00:50:11,519 --> 00:50:15,280
important because when like in the Republican world, they just

884
00:50:15,360 --> 00:50:17,280
want to win shit, okay, And what they're going to

885
00:50:17,360 --> 00:50:19,880
do is they're going to maximize the probability of winning

886
00:50:19,960 --> 00:50:23,320
and all other goals are like down here in our world,

887
00:50:23,519 --> 00:50:25,880
what we want to win shit. But we can't have

888
00:50:25,960 --> 00:50:29,079
a convention in Atlanta because there's not enough Union hotels,

889
00:50:29,360 --> 00:50:31,960
and we got to make sure that there's five trans

890
00:50:32,039 --> 00:50:34,159
people on the panel. And da da da da da

891
00:50:34,280 --> 00:50:37,119
da da da right. It all is what we call

892
00:50:37,280 --> 00:50:41,559
mission creep strategic mission creep right, and it's bad. Right.

893
00:50:41,599 --> 00:50:44,280
So what we want to do is get people to understand,

894
00:50:44,800 --> 00:50:48,039
like we can represent people through policy, we do not

895
00:50:48,199 --> 00:50:51,559
need to represent everybody through messaging, because when you try

896
00:50:51,599 --> 00:50:55,000
to represent everybody, you make no message. No one hears

897
00:50:55,039 --> 00:50:57,320
your message. For the Republicans are very good at this.

898
00:50:57,880 --> 00:51:01,400
Everybody who own one theme be louder like Horton hears

899
00:51:01,480 --> 00:51:04,599
who we are here, We are here and with us

900
00:51:04,960 --> 00:51:07,760
got one candidate on education and one on this and

901
00:51:07,800 --> 00:51:14,480
one on that it's a disaster. So like representation with power, Okay,

902
00:51:14,559 --> 00:51:17,119
that's what I am working towards, and I will do

903
00:51:17,239 --> 00:51:21,400
anything to maximize the probability. So if I was choosing,

904
00:51:21,440 --> 00:51:24,159
I'd have a white man run as the nominee. That said,

905
00:51:24,800 --> 00:51:28,960
in twenty twenty four, Harris's biggest problem was that she

906
00:51:29,159 --> 00:51:32,239
was the end party and that Diden had saddled her

907
00:51:32,599 --> 00:51:36,360
with that border I mean that border disaster. Like four

908
00:51:36,400 --> 00:51:39,559
million people crossing a border in a three year period

909
00:51:39,639 --> 00:51:41,920
is not good, guys. They should have been closed down.

910
00:51:42,360 --> 00:51:46,440
And her inability to say that because progressives would have

911
00:51:46,519 --> 00:51:50,239
turned on her was really harmful, Okay, I mean to

912
00:51:50,360 --> 00:51:54,480
Middle America, having just random people cross the border in

913
00:51:54,920 --> 00:51:57,239
tunes of millions of eight years is not you know,

914
00:51:57,280 --> 00:52:01,559
a sustainable or good idea versus security reasons for economic reasons.

915
00:52:02,079 --> 00:52:04,480
So you know, some of it was just, but it

916
00:52:04,519 --> 00:52:06,559
had to be Harris. Guys, we couldn't have done a

917
00:52:06,559 --> 00:52:09,360
snap primary. Everyone thinks, oh, we should have had a primary.

918
00:52:09,639 --> 00:52:14,519
It was ninety She started her campaign literally ninety days

919
00:52:14,559 --> 00:52:17,920
before the general in a system that votes starts voting

920
00:52:17,920 --> 00:52:20,239
about a month early, by the way, So really she

921
00:52:20,360 --> 00:52:23,760
had sixty days for a whole campaign, and we would

922
00:52:23,760 --> 00:52:25,599
have taken two weeks or three weeks to do a

923
00:52:25,639 --> 00:52:28,400
primary out of that, like or whatever we did, it

924
00:52:28,400 --> 00:52:30,119
would have been bad. So you know, it is what

925
00:52:30,159 --> 00:52:33,000
it is. We're here. We're here, and Democrats are going

926
00:52:33,079 --> 00:52:34,719
to win a lot of shit now because we're not

927
00:52:34,800 --> 00:52:37,039
in power. But my goal is to make sure that

928
00:52:37,039 --> 00:52:40,679
that is as many things as possible by getting people

929
00:52:41,199 --> 00:52:44,920
coming on you know, the need, especially in progressive media,

930
00:52:45,039 --> 00:52:48,960
to put the attention on the opposition party. Their media

931
00:52:49,599 --> 00:52:53,599
is focused on us, Our media is focused on us.

932
00:52:54,920 --> 00:52:56,760
Who is focusing on them?

933
00:52:57,519 --> 00:52:59,800
Speaker 2: To make sure I'm understanding you're saying, in order for

934
00:53:00,079 --> 00:53:04,159
us to be better advocates for LGBT people, including and

935
00:53:04,280 --> 00:53:09,719
especially trans people, we don't lead by having them at

936
00:53:09,719 --> 00:53:13,039
the front line, which would immediately polarize the people that

937
00:53:13,079 --> 00:53:15,559
we are trying to defeat in the election. Once we

938
00:53:15,679 --> 00:53:19,239
gain power, we can then be better advocates. Am I tracking?

939
00:53:19,480 --> 00:53:21,280
Speaker 3: Yeah, I mean I would argue that when you look

940
00:53:21,280 --> 00:53:23,079
at results, which is again the only thing I give

941
00:53:23,079 --> 00:53:27,239
a shit about is what happened, right, the trans movement

942
00:53:27,280 --> 00:53:33,719
has not been served well by progressives because this bandwagon

943
00:53:33,760 --> 00:53:37,000
effect happened and they became so visible and blah blah blah.

944
00:53:37,519 --> 00:53:39,280
I think there's a lot of trans people that wish

945
00:53:39,320 --> 00:53:42,880
that they just never had been picked up because of topic,

946
00:53:43,039 --> 00:53:47,000
you know, because now they've got this full like, you know,

947
00:53:47,119 --> 00:53:51,079
scrutiny coming down on them, you know. So yeah, No,

948
00:53:51,280 --> 00:53:54,599
to me, it's like, Okay, trans issues are important. I

949
00:53:54,639 --> 00:53:56,519
believe that all people should have a right to be

950
00:53:57,039 --> 00:54:00,760
whoever they are, right, But like trans people make up

951
00:54:00,880 --> 00:54:03,880
less than one percent of the population. It's like, it

952
00:54:03,880 --> 00:54:06,519
can't be like the thing that you're focused on, right,

953
00:54:06,599 --> 00:54:08,920
Like you have to focus on shit that matters to

954
00:54:09,000 --> 00:54:11,639
the most people in the district. Or the state that

955
00:54:11,679 --> 00:54:14,480
you're or the country that you're running in. And these

956
00:54:14,599 --> 00:54:17,119
you know, issues, by the way, as I pointed out,

957
00:54:17,159 --> 00:54:20,000
are saturated. People know that we're the party for pro

958
00:54:20,360 --> 00:54:24,079
civil rights, voting rights and gainess. They get that, but

959
00:54:24,159 --> 00:54:26,000
they don't know that we're the party that's good on

960
00:54:26,000 --> 00:54:28,199
the economy. They don't know that we're the party that

961
00:54:28,239 --> 00:54:31,599
got them Social Security and Medicare and the party that

962
00:54:31,800 --> 00:54:35,159
keeps Republicans from taking it away. And so, you know,

963
00:54:35,400 --> 00:54:39,679
we need to recenter our conversations around these broader bread

964
00:54:39,719 --> 00:54:43,119
and butter issues. And it's not about taking Republican positions

965
00:54:43,199 --> 00:54:47,079
or appealing to the right. It's about highlighting the shit

966
00:54:47,159 --> 00:54:50,920
that's most important to voters and not getting letting ourselves

967
00:54:50,920 --> 00:54:54,599
get tricked into cycles like like a Virginia in twenty

968
00:54:54,679 --> 00:54:58,000
one where they flipped a blue state red by running

969
00:54:58,000 --> 00:55:01,280
on CRT, which isn't even a real thing. Okay, Like

970
00:55:01,840 --> 00:55:04,840
they did that because they attacked us on CRT and

971
00:55:04,880 --> 00:55:08,199
made the election cycle about that, and what we do.

972
00:55:08,559 --> 00:55:11,000
We came in and played defense the whole time. Oh well,

973
00:55:11,000 --> 00:55:13,679
it's not really that or Tony Morrison or this or that,

974
00:55:14,000 --> 00:55:16,039
And it didn't matter because at the end of the day,

975
00:55:16,079 --> 00:55:19,039
what the voter knew about CRT was that it's about

976
00:55:19,079 --> 00:55:21,840
to make it's designed to make white kids feel guilty

977
00:55:21,880 --> 00:55:24,480
for being white, right, And they were able to wedge

978
00:55:24,519 --> 00:55:28,599
that very effectively. Now, Glenn Youngkin, the guy who benefited

979
00:55:28,599 --> 00:55:31,440
from that sweater dusk Glenn, he's a business guy. He

980
00:55:31,440 --> 00:55:33,960
doesn't give two shits about public education at all, let

981
00:55:34,000 --> 00:55:37,599
alone curriculum on race. But he ran and made that

982
00:55:37,679 --> 00:55:40,320
the center point of his campaign. Then he used the

983
00:55:40,360 --> 00:55:43,000
power of the governor's race or a governor's position to

984
00:55:43,159 --> 00:55:46,559
litigate or to do the rest of his policies. Do

985
00:55:46,559 --> 00:55:48,519
you see what I'm saying. So it should be running

986
00:55:48,559 --> 00:55:51,000
on the thing that's most salient, that's easiest to wedge,

987
00:55:51,000 --> 00:55:53,440
that can hit the Republicans the hardest, which is these

988
00:55:53,440 --> 00:55:57,719
betrayals that Trump has done. You're the avenger, they're the villains.

989
00:55:58,039 --> 00:56:00,480
Don't complicate shit. And then when you and a bunch

990
00:56:00,480 --> 00:56:03,320
of shit, you have power to protect trans people. I mean,

991
00:56:03,360 --> 00:56:06,679
I would say Latinos also weren't well served by like

992
00:56:06,800 --> 00:56:10,199
our extremism, okay on the border because now they're sitting

993
00:56:10,280 --> 00:56:13,559
in dilly concentration. Can't we have children who have spent

994
00:56:13,719 --> 00:56:17,239
you know, two thirds of their lives in a prison camp.

995
00:56:19,000 --> 00:56:20,639
You know what I mean? So like, the results to

996
00:56:20,719 --> 00:56:21,719
me is what matters.

997
00:56:22,119 --> 00:56:25,679
Speaker 2: You know, you're talking about strategy before ideology. You're not

998
00:56:25,719 --> 00:56:28,760
sacrificing your values. We're simply trying to.

999
00:56:28,679 --> 00:56:31,760
Speaker 3: Stop the throwing anybody under the bus. We're just saying, like, look,

1000
00:56:32,000 --> 00:56:35,199
when run on these big issues that really matter to

1001
00:56:35,239 --> 00:56:38,840
the most people, and don't let yourself get fooled into

1002
00:56:38,880 --> 00:56:42,719
a defensive posture on attack, attack attack.

1003
00:56:43,400 --> 00:56:46,679
Speaker 2: Okay, all right, Rachel, a bit of confer But are

1004
00:56:46,719 --> 00:56:49,760
we gonna have mid terms? I mean, we're gonna have midterms,

1005
00:56:49,760 --> 00:56:52,199
But is it going to be like Putin's elections? You know,

1006
00:56:52,239 --> 00:56:55,119
it's been nationalized or whatever the outcome is going to

1007
00:56:55,119 --> 00:56:57,199
be contested and nothing will ever change. I mean, I

1008
00:56:57,280 --> 00:57:00,920
know that a shit ton of Republican senators and House

1009
00:57:00,960 --> 00:57:03,480
representatives are like, you know what, I'm going to be leaving.

1010
00:57:04,119 --> 00:57:05,639
I'm not going to run again. I'm going to spend

1011
00:57:05,719 --> 00:57:08,400
more time with my family. I guess they see the

1012
00:57:08,480 --> 00:57:10,920
writing on the wall. They're trying to save face. But

1013
00:57:11,000 --> 00:57:14,599
I mean, midterms, you know, I guess maybe I'll make

1014
00:57:14,639 --> 00:57:17,719
this the last question. What do you think midterms, I'll

1015
00:57:17,760 --> 00:57:19,320
just leave it there again.

1016
00:57:19,480 --> 00:57:21,840
Speaker 3: I would refer people to the cycle on substack. It's

1017
00:57:21,840 --> 00:57:25,519
an open source publication that relies on people like you

1018
00:57:25,599 --> 00:57:28,599
have money to support it, letting other people enjoy the

1019
00:57:28,599 --> 00:57:30,840
content for free. And I do a couple of mid

1020
00:57:30,920 --> 00:57:33,840
term analysis in there. My most latest is talking about

1021
00:57:33,880 --> 00:57:37,360
the real potential because we're seeing people who normally vote

1022
00:57:37,360 --> 00:57:39,800
for Republicans being willing to vote for Democrats and these

1023
00:57:39,800 --> 00:57:43,039
special elections for us to recapture the Senate, which is

1024
00:57:43,079 --> 00:57:45,159
a very difficult thing to do, we have to win

1025
00:57:45,239 --> 00:57:49,679
Ohio and Texas and North Carolina and main places where

1026
00:57:49,679 --> 00:57:53,559
we've just been losing, losing, losing. So we're in this incredible,

1027
00:57:53,800 --> 00:57:57,880
incredible position because the back to guess Trump has been

1028
00:57:57,960 --> 00:58:01,239
such a disaster, right, So, you know, I think we're

1029
00:58:01,239 --> 00:58:03,840
going to win big in the midterms. I'm not worried

1030
00:58:03,880 --> 00:58:07,519
about them certificate certified at all of except for Georgia,

1031
00:58:07,599 --> 00:58:10,239
where they gave themselves the power of vitail to the

1032
00:58:10,280 --> 00:58:15,239
Republican legislative majority in the state House. That's a little

1033
00:58:15,280 --> 00:58:19,360
concerning in terms of John Othof's reelection, But really where

1034
00:58:19,400 --> 00:58:22,519
people should be nervous is about twenty twenty eight. I

1035
00:58:22,559 --> 00:58:25,079
don't sugarcoat shit. I tell people what they need to

1036
00:58:25,119 --> 00:58:27,559
know and not what they want to hear. Donald Trump

1037
00:58:27,599 --> 00:58:30,119
is not going to just be like, oh, we lost, okay.

1038
00:58:30,519 --> 00:58:33,599
And because there's not a national voter ID, I'm not

1039
00:58:33,760 --> 00:58:37,519
talking about to say that, okay, but the broad concept

1040
00:58:37,559 --> 00:58:39,719
of the clean voter ID law, which we have in

1041
00:58:39,760 --> 00:58:43,760
thirty six states all operating because we don't have that,

1042
00:58:44,320 --> 00:58:46,440
what he's going to do is he's going to claim

1043
00:58:46,440 --> 00:58:48,840
that millions of illegals voted and it won't be any

1044
00:58:48,960 --> 00:58:51,679
more true than has ever been. But because there's no

1045
00:58:52,239 --> 00:58:57,039
ID requirements, that people will believe it, right, And I

1046
00:58:57,079 --> 00:58:59,480
do not expect that Donald Trump wil just meant, you know,

1047
00:58:59,519 --> 00:59:02,400
skipping out out of the office on January twentieth, two

1048
00:59:02,480 --> 00:59:05,519
thousand and twenty nine. I don't know how it will end,

1049
00:59:05,960 --> 00:59:08,119
but I don't think it will end like that.

1050
00:59:09,119 --> 00:59:10,800
Speaker 2: Is it sad that I'm kind of rooting for the

1051
00:59:10,840 --> 00:59:13,559
blood clot? Is that a terrible thing to think? Like?

1052
00:59:13,599 --> 00:59:15,840
I mean, the guy eats McDonald's three times a day,

1053
00:59:15,840 --> 00:59:17,840
and I'm like, well, maybe nature will do the job

1054
00:59:17,880 --> 00:59:20,280
for us. And then I feel like, is that can

1055
00:59:20,320 --> 00:59:25,639
you even say that about egal. Hello, the Secret Service

1056
00:59:25,679 --> 00:59:29,599
satellite overhead is probably right now sending people with black sunglasses.

1057
00:59:30,199 --> 00:59:33,920
Speaker 3: The Secret Service wants to visit everybody who's hoping every

1058
00:59:34,000 --> 00:59:36,239
day they'll wake up to Trump being dead. They're going

1059
00:59:36,280 --> 00:59:39,559
to be very fucking busy, right. You know, here's my

1060
00:59:39,719 --> 00:59:42,320
thought on that. I feel like evil lives, like it

1061
00:59:42,360 --> 00:59:44,159
has its own gas.

1062
00:59:44,360 --> 00:59:48,159
Speaker 2: You know, yeah, just live on hate for it. Don't

1063
00:59:48,239 --> 00:59:50,679
judge me. Actually I don't think you would. I actually

1064
00:59:50,840 --> 00:59:53,159
don't even drink, but I have a bottle of wine

1065
00:59:53,159 --> 00:59:55,760
that's got a label with the outline of Donald Trump

1066
00:59:55,840 --> 00:59:58,920
on it and it says open when it happens. And

1067
00:59:58,960 --> 01:00:02,239
when that day comes or popping the court, Oh my god.

1068
01:00:02,119 --> 01:00:04,440
Speaker 3: The whole world is going to celebrate, right, I mean,

1069
01:00:04,480 --> 01:00:07,880
because again, guys, what sucks is what has been pissed away,

1070
01:00:08,280 --> 01:00:12,719
the idea that like we're international pariahs like that. That

1071
01:00:12,800 --> 01:00:15,320
stuff's not going to be easy to fix, and it's

1072
01:00:15,360 --> 01:00:18,159
not going to be fixable at all until Donald Trump

1073
01:00:18,239 --> 01:00:21,480
is out of office, however that might occur. But I

1074
01:00:21,519 --> 01:00:24,960
think the world will celebrate that like they celebrated the

1075
01:00:25,000 --> 01:00:26,119
death of Adolf Hitler.

1076
01:00:26,119 --> 01:00:28,920
Speaker 2: To be frank, it's going to take at least a

1077
01:00:29,000 --> 01:00:33,320
generation to undo, you know, to re establish trust or whatever.

1078
01:00:33,559 --> 01:00:38,119
Leave me with something actionable. We have an eternity before

1079
01:00:38,159 --> 01:00:41,360
the midterms, and certainly an eternity before twenty twenty eight.

1080
01:00:41,840 --> 01:00:44,960
And rather than curse the darkness and bitch on social media,

1081
01:00:45,480 --> 01:00:47,159
what should I be doing? Rachel?

1082
01:00:48,440 --> 01:00:50,800
Speaker 3: Well, I mean, number one, if you have money, you know,

1083
01:00:50,880 --> 01:00:53,199
you got to invest it. Can't ask people to do

1084
01:00:53,239 --> 01:00:56,639
stuff in the new money. You know, these races that

1085
01:00:56,719 --> 01:00:59,400
are coming, like, we're looking at a potential of fore

1086
01:00:59,559 --> 01:01:03,039
something house races that could be competitive. So investing in

1087
01:01:03,079 --> 01:01:05,000
the House and the Senate races would be a very

1088
01:01:05,079 --> 01:01:08,880
good use of time and money in whatever capacity or

1089
01:01:08,920 --> 01:01:11,800
all of them that you're capable of doing. That you said,

1090
01:01:11,840 --> 01:01:14,400
the midterms are far away to me. They're not like

1091
01:01:14,440 --> 01:01:18,000
they're come in. They're hurtling towards us. And the Republicans

1092
01:01:18,039 --> 01:01:20,760
get that there already have you know, things that they're doing.

1093
01:01:20,800 --> 01:01:23,800
You never see advertising from us unless it's it's the

1094
01:01:23,840 --> 01:01:26,440
only text you ever get is a fundraising thing, right, So,

1095
01:01:26,559 --> 01:01:28,519
like we're not doing a lot of the work that

1096
01:01:28,559 --> 01:01:30,039
we need to be doing, and a lot of that

1097
01:01:30,159 --> 01:01:33,719
reason is this perception that it's a September problem, when

1098
01:01:33,760 --> 01:01:36,960
really it's a twenty four seven, seven, three sixty five

1099
01:01:37,079 --> 01:01:41,679
day war that we're in against a megaphone of influencers

1100
01:01:41,679 --> 01:01:45,039
paid by billionaires and you know, the behemoth that is

1101
01:01:45,079 --> 01:01:45,760
Fox News.

1102
01:01:46,840 --> 01:01:50,039
Speaker 2: It's going to take more than us complaining on Facebook.

1103
01:01:50,039 --> 01:01:52,719
And I'm talking to myself as much as anybody else. Right,

1104
01:01:53,079 --> 01:01:56,360
got to contact the power players and support the organization's

1105
01:01:56,360 --> 01:01:59,880
causes and people that represent your values. Get off the couch,

1106
01:02:00,000 --> 01:02:04,039
go out and stir the shit storm and engage. Engage, engage,

1107
01:02:04,199 --> 01:02:07,639
Doctor Rachel bit A Coffer, your problem is you never

1108
01:02:07,679 --> 01:02:09,800
speak your mind. You know you need to, You need

1109
01:02:09,840 --> 01:02:11,199
to open up all they do.

1110
01:02:11,480 --> 01:02:13,800
Speaker 3: I'm so guarded, right, really.

1111
01:02:13,679 --> 01:02:16,960
Speaker 2: Such a wallflower. Thanks for slumming on the show and

1112
01:02:17,000 --> 01:02:22,000
talking to me. I'm not Bill Maher, but oh.

1113
01:02:21,079 --> 01:02:24,159
Speaker 3: It's a great pleasure. I'm really always excited to have

1114
01:02:24,360 --> 01:02:28,360
a really cerebral conversation and enjoy every minute of it.

1115
01:02:28,480 --> 01:02:29,840
So I hope the audience does too.

1116
01:02:30,440 --> 01:02:32,960
Speaker 2: I will link to your Is the substack the best

1117
01:02:32,960 --> 01:02:33,840
place to find you?

1118
01:02:34,039 --> 01:02:36,000
Speaker 3: Oh yeah, I mean on x is the best place

1119
01:02:36,039 --> 01:02:37,800
to buy me? But a lot of liberals don't do that.

1120
01:02:37,840 --> 01:02:40,920
I'm also in Blue Sky I do cross post, But

1121
01:02:40,960 --> 01:02:43,039
the cycle is if you want to know what's happening

1122
01:02:43,079 --> 01:02:46,280
before it happens, then you should be a Cycle subscriber

1123
01:02:46,280 --> 01:02:48,079
because that's what you're going to get. You don't just

1124
01:02:48,159 --> 01:02:50,159
get like, hey, this is what happened in the news.

1125
01:02:50,400 --> 01:02:53,079
You get the meaning. For example, tomorrow and publishing an

1126
01:02:53,199 --> 01:02:57,559
article about California's scubernatorial primary. It's a jungle system, and

1127
01:02:57,960 --> 01:03:01,039
until this swallow Well scandal, we were headed to a

1128
01:03:01,159 --> 01:03:04,960
very real certainty what we might see two Republican nominees

1129
01:03:05,000 --> 01:03:08,039
in that general election because of the jungle primary. And

1130
01:03:08,480 --> 01:03:10,280
you know now we're trying to head that off. So

1131
01:03:10,559 --> 01:03:12,679
if we want to know what's coming and why it

1132
01:03:12,800 --> 01:03:15,639
matters to you and stay ahead of fascism, the Cycle

1133
01:03:15,719 --> 01:03:16,480
is the place for you.

1134
01:03:16,400 --> 01:03:21,239
Speaker 2: You think Newsom's going for twenty twenty eight, you think, really, to.

1135
01:03:21,159 --> 01:03:24,119
Speaker 3: Me, he's probably the front runner because he understands. I mean,

1136
01:03:24,199 --> 01:03:28,639
this is like people get so mad at me when

1137
01:03:28,679 --> 01:03:32,800
I talk about democratic nominations, and it's like I'm not

1138
01:03:33,039 --> 01:03:35,360
talking as a feeling person, I'm telling you as an

1139
01:03:35,360 --> 01:03:38,880
analyst what reality is. Okay, President, this will be the

1140
01:03:38,920 --> 01:03:43,039
most open presidential nomination we've had in my lifetime. Okay,

1141
01:03:43,480 --> 01:03:48,159
in my lifetime, there's no really dominant, strong front runner.

1142
01:03:48,360 --> 01:03:52,119
There was Kamala Harris, previous nominee by name I D

1143
01:03:52,880 --> 01:03:56,400
but sure decision not to go and run in California

1144
01:03:56,559 --> 01:03:59,960
was bad. If you know what I know about primaries

1145
01:04:00,599 --> 01:04:03,360
on when you guys go into a ballot box, and

1146
01:04:03,400 --> 01:04:06,599
this is why voters are so uninformed. You can look

1147
01:04:06,599 --> 01:04:08,159
and there's an R and a D and you're able

1148
01:04:08,159 --> 01:04:09,800
to use that as a shortcut. You don't have to

1149
01:04:09,840 --> 01:04:12,079
know who Jack Smith, the R candidate is, but if

1150
01:04:12,079 --> 01:04:14,320
you're a Republican and he's got the R, you're good. Right.

1151
01:04:14,719 --> 01:04:17,400
Primers don't have that, Okay, It's just this long list

1152
01:04:17,440 --> 01:04:19,400
of names that you and I know all of them,

1153
01:04:19,440 --> 01:04:21,760
but most voters are like, who the hell are these people?

1154
01:04:22,199 --> 01:04:24,280
And so it really comes down to like, oh, I

1155
01:04:24,400 --> 01:04:27,079
know that one, right, And so you can see Harris

1156
01:04:27,079 --> 01:04:30,079
had started up with this big advantage, but it's eroding

1157
01:04:30,159 --> 01:04:33,559
because the public is forgetting all about her. And Newsome

1158
01:04:33,960 --> 01:04:37,599
understands this and so you know, to me, I love

1159
01:04:37,920 --> 01:04:40,280
many of the candidates, and my favorite nominee is the

1160
01:04:40,320 --> 01:04:42,559
one that you guys vote. Okay, I don't give a shit,

1161
01:04:43,559 --> 01:04:48,719
I really don't. We're talking about degrees of difference against fatism, right,

1162
01:04:48,920 --> 01:04:50,760
so I really don't give a shit. I just want

1163
01:04:50,840 --> 01:04:53,360
a candidate that you guys want. But right now, if

1164
01:04:53,360 --> 01:04:56,199
I had to guess, that candidate's most likely to be Gavin.

1165
01:04:55,960 --> 01:05:00,239
Speaker 2: Newsome, perfect is the enemy of the good and me

1166
01:05:00,719 --> 01:05:03,079
the case in politics, I'm going to just skip the

1167
01:05:03,119 --> 01:05:05,400
other twenty five questions that are popped into my mind.

1168
01:05:05,400 --> 01:05:07,400
Every time you answer, I'm like, but but but I'm

1169
01:05:07,440 --> 01:05:08,199
gonna stop right This.

1170
01:05:08,480 --> 01:05:10,559
Speaker 3: Sign that you need to bring me back sometime.

1171
01:05:10,519 --> 01:05:12,920
Speaker 2: Is that it. I'll have my people contact your people

1172
01:05:12,960 --> 01:05:16,800
in the meantime. You know, it's good advice. Right, Let's

1173
01:05:16,800 --> 01:05:20,480
not get stumbling. Let's not stumble on the minutia. Let's

1174
01:05:20,480 --> 01:05:23,760
certainly not squabble amongst ourselves so much over the details

1175
01:05:23,760 --> 01:05:26,719
that we missed the big picture. The world is on fire, yeah,

1176
01:05:26,760 --> 01:05:28,400
and we're the only ones that are going to put

1177
01:05:28,400 --> 01:05:30,000
it out. So I'm going to link to your work

1178
01:05:30,039 --> 01:05:32,880
and your page in the show notes of this broadcast.

1179
01:05:33,159 --> 01:05:36,119
And thank you so much for being here, thank you

1180
01:05:36,159 --> 01:05:37,000
so much for having me.

1181
01:05:37,400 --> 01:05:40,960
Speaker 1: Follow The Thinking Atheist on Facebook and Twitter for a

1182
01:05:41,000 --> 01:05:44,599
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1183
01:05:44,639 --> 01:05:48,320
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1184
01:05:48,360 --> 01:05:52,039
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1185
01:05:52,039 --> 01:05:57,559
and conventions. Log onto our website, The Thinkingatheist dot com