Speaker 1: I want to welcome everyone back to the Pegana show.
Oh we have a treat here, two guys that love
to do the deep dives. So let's try to keep
this under three hours. Gentlemen, how you doing, Stormy? Doing well?
Speaker 2: Doing well?
Speaker 1: What's going off, ILOs?
Speaker 3: Everything's good in the hood.
Speaker 1: Who wants to go first? We're we're going to talk
about a We're gonna get controversial again, but and probably
piss a bunch of people off, But you know, I
think that's what this shows for. So who wants to
start this off?
Speaker 3: Fine, well, yeah, I'll I'll just play it straight. So
the essential information to know for the Dolls brothers is
John Foster Dolis was an American Secretary of State and
Alan DoLS was the Director of Central Intelligence from nineteen
fifty three to nineteen sixty one. That was concurrent with
the time that JF. Dolis was Secretary of State. Now,
you might assume that two men, being brothers in high
positions of power in the federal government, would exercise some
kind of undue influence on the foreign policy of the
United States, And you would be correct to go into
the life of the Dulles brothers is to understand the
trajectory of both the foreign policy of the United States
from about the forties through the late sixties early seventies,
but also to understand big changes, sweeping changes that occurred
within the internal structure of the government. So I guess
on this stream, I'll kind of be the straight man,
presenting information from primary sources. I deliberately tried to stay
away from especially very convoluted elements like Alan Dulles's appointment
to the Warren Commission, as well as the ultimate culpability
upon him for the Bay of Pigs. But other than that,
I'm happy to just kind of go through his life
the source material to keep it short and not overwhelm
the conversation. I was very fortunate to come across a
trove of primary sources from the Deputy Chief of Staff
for Logistics in the Military Assistance and Advisory Group, and
that individual was the head of Walker Air Force Base
in the nineteen sixties. And as we go into alf
Fletcher Proudy's book, The Secret War, one thing that you'll
understand is that the CIA had an extra component, and
that was its Defense Department, not so much equivalent, but
its partner and how it conducts operations. So having a
lot of these primary sources from a side of that
organization that's intimately involved in the story is a bit
of a tree. Very briefly, I'm just going to outline
the sources so you know what I'm referencing, and these
will come up again. For the early life of Alan Dulles,
I'm citing Gentleman Spy by Peter Gross as well as
The Devil's Chessboard by David Talbot. For my more esoteric sources,
I also have The Secret Team by L. Fletcher Proudy,
as well as This Secret War by Sanche de Gramont
from nineteen sixty two. I have a nineteen seventies book,
The Man Who Kept the Secrets about the CIA. I
have Donovan and the Cia, which was the CIA's first
external biography of itself in the OSS. And I also
have the absolute classic and privilege of a first edition,
first printing copy of Carol Quigly's Tragedy and Hope, which
outlines the overall United States foreign policy in the twentieth century.
So those are my sources for the stream and I'm
happy to get into it.
Speaker 1: You want to add anything before we start, Stormy.
Speaker 2: Yeah, Alan Dulles was, and John Foster Dulles was National
socialist sympathizers and American heroes. And we can take it
from there, all.
Speaker 1: Right, that filus sure so.
Speaker 3: In getting into the early life and biography of these men,
and to be clear, this stream is primarily going to
be focused more on Alan Dolles than John Foster. But
in looking at them, we also have to consider that
most biographies that are highly critical of the Dullest brothers
and their activities are written by leftists. So the most
recent and prominent of these biographies, The Devil's Chessboard, asserts
that Alan DoLS is a pro Nazi sympathizer, which is true,
and that he didn't do enough, even though he knew
about the Holocaust to stop German activities against Jews and
so on and so forth. And if you're very sympathetic
to that cause, then that book will be very enlightening.
But if you're on our side of things, there's a
trove of information within that book which suggests many more
unknowns than are available in other conventional sources about the
Dulles brothers. So I'm going to start with one book here,
Gentleman Spy by Peter gross, so I guess you have
to start first off with Alan Dolles. His early life
is straightforward, wasp. He's one of five children of a
Presbyterian minister. He is part of a very blue blooded
aristocratic family. There's Wikipedia articles back I think four generations
about his family, Stormy, you might know more on that.
His maternal grandfather was Secretary of State, his uncle was
Secretary of State under Woodrow Wilson, and Dulles went to
Princeton University, so already starting out he was destined for
big things. Initially, his career began after he exited Princeton
by a brief stint in Vienna, I believe eight months,
and then transferring over to Bern in Switzerland. And Switzerland
is going to be a theme that pops up a bunch.
The time in which he goes is immediately following World
War One, and there's an issue of national displacement after
World War One in Europe. So while he's at both
Vienna and Burn, he starts interacting with people from all
over the world in his capacity, as I believe his
technical title was a Foreign Service officer. I'd have to
double check that, but going into it, his job is
to gather and collect intelligence on the surroundings. He's collecting
information upon people dignitaries that are visiting the embassy. Since
he's working for the State Department, he's primarily assisting people
with things like immigration claims, and that his function as
the Cerve Foreign Office was that, you know, he'd have
to occasionally help Jews, so very often there's very wealthy
and powerful Jews. This is something pointed out in the
Peter Gross biography. An interesting little anecdote that Dullest like
to tell throughout his life was that he missed meeting
Vladimir Lenin by just one day when Lenin was the
leader of the Bolsheviks. So right before Lenin left for
the Finland station, he had arranged a meeting to come
to the United States Embassy and have a meeting with Dulas.
But Dullas I believe, had some of their obligation. Dulis
loved that story, which is that you should never pass
up an opportunity to meet people. And that's a theme
that's going to happen again and again. Dulas is a
very good, ideous job. Well, he starts off as kind
of a basic secretarial role. He quickly in the State
Department rises to a position of prominence. I believe he's
the second in command at this embassy, and his dispatches
are of a significantly higher quality than his peers. So
at this point in time teen eighteen, nineteen nineteen, Walter
Littman has started reading the reports of Alan Dulles's This
is right on the collapse of the Central Powers, and
these dispatches stand out to mister Littman because the clarity
and the insight that Dulas is noticing and the people
and the circumstances around him. So Litman resolved to keep
his eye on Dulles. Many things are happening at the
conclusion of the war. On previous podcasts with Pete, I've
brought up how Edward Brenees went to the Paris Peace Conference,
and that you know a multitude of other diplomats and
people that were responsible for World War Two ultimately as well.
Bernard Baruch goes, Colonel House also goes to Europe as well,
and well Dulles. I don't think he's actually present at
the Paris peace conference, but the information and the dispatches
that are going from Las to Lipmann are used by
Litman to persuade Colonel House that the collection of intelligence
is an urgent priority and that if conventional diplomats don't
have much interest in pursuing it, then there needs to
be a shift and a change in how American intelligence operates.
So I just want to very briefly elucidate the concepts
of what intelligence is to help people understand what makes
Alan Dolles's role so special. So, the way the intelligence
process works is that you have a central mission and
in that mission, you have to collect data. You have
to process and exploit it. You have to analyze and
produce it. You have disseminate it and to integrate it.
And then that follows with planning and direction. So the
role of mister Dulles as he's going and he's talking
and he's meeting to people, these aren't casual acquaintances. Dulls
is setting up a network than Switzerland that he's going
to lean on in the nineteen twenties and thirties as
he goes through his career. And let's see here, I
have to my sources are a little bit jumbled here
other stuff. Do you want to take over for a minute, Stormy, repeat.
Speaker 1: That, Stormy. If you don't have anything lean just now.
Speaker 2: I was doing the thing where you talk into your
microphone but don't realize that you're muted.
Speaker 1: Yeah, that's sure. Professional. Every professional podcaster does that.
Speaker 2: Thank you. I'm a professional. Now. I finally had my
cherry popped. I didn't like it. So my knowledge of
dulles Alan and really John Foster happens when it starts
when they get home from the peace conference. World War
two is I'm sorry, world War one is is you know,
a distant memory. And they are at the law firm
Sullivan and Cromwell. So I don't know if I is
is where you're going next Sullivan and Cromwell.
Speaker 3: Or no, that's correct, but finance isn't really my area
of expertise. I only know that he was generally pro Nazi.
I have some other specific little anecdotes from that.
Speaker 2: But did you find your source?
Speaker 3: Yes, I have.
Speaker 2: Jump in there, take over and I'll take it in
the post war riors.
Speaker 1: Oh yeah, I found my source. Good job there.
Speaker 3: So he's at Sullivan and Cromwell, and at this time
he is making network connections to the Nazis. So the
Nazis sees power in nineteen thirty three and let's fuck.
I'm sorry, I'm screwing this all up. I'm looking through
a sources. I totally jumbled.
Speaker 2: We should just wait and make it super awkward.
Speaker 3: Yeah, okay, So here we go, Here we go, found it,
found it. So Doulas is in burn and Switzerland. And
the reason that that matters is because both in World
War Two and in the interwar years, Doulas is making
connections financially as well. So the Dulles brothers their lost
their Wall Street law firm is Sullivan and Cromwell, and
that sits at a connective node between all these different
international banks, investment firms, and industrial conglomerates. And during World
War One, the German economy is totally devastated, and the
rebuilding of that falls to these banks and industrial companies,
and so there's a lot of US and investment that
begins to go into German industrial giants like ig Farben,
the chemical Congomlate and Krupp Steel. There's a great book
out there called The Arms of Krupp, which to summarize
like two thousand pages of this history. This German steel company,
it's entirely centered within the rule and they are producing
the best quality steel in the planet for hundreds of years.
So after World War One, US investment goes into Kryp Steel,
which is an economic powerhouse for Germany, and because it's
in the rule, it requires French and British involvement. So
the profits that are generated by these investments then go
to France and Britain due to the Paris Peace Conference
in the Versailles Treaty, these flow back in the form
of war reparations and then also back to the United
States to pay off war loans. And so Alan Doles's brother,
John Foster Dolas he it's very, very lucrative to have
these investments within Germany. And even after Hitler takes power
in the nineteen thirties, John Foster is continuing to work
with and do business with German companies like ig Farbin,
and he's donating money to America First, which is a
isolationist party. Stormy, you've touched on it in other streams.
Charles Lindberg was kind of their avatar, and many Americans
at this time very prominent WASP Americans had a positive
opinion of Hitler's Germany, and Foster refused to shut down
the Berlin office of Sullivan and Cromwell in the nineteen thirties,
and he ordered the attorneys at this at his firm
to sign their correspondence with Hyle Hitler until his business partner,
who's also his brother, Alan Dulls, grew increasingly worried about
a public relations disaster, and then it in nineteen thirty five,
partners meeting at forty eight Wall Street, John Foster agreed
to remove the Heyle Hitler from the letters and apparently
was so devastated by this that he broke down in tears,
because you know, there's a lot of severing of German
connections that have now been built up in the business
world over the last fifteen or so years since the
end of World War One, and not all of the
individuals that are working with the firm are being cut
off intrinsically. It's still prior to World War Two, so
there's not as much of a need at this point
prominent society. People are still entertaining the Nazis. You have
to remember also that most of the nineteen thirties the
Nazis were very well received in the United States, like
the Hindenburg I mean, up until the disaster in nineteen
thirty eight. It was this huge, positively received public gesture
to see the Hindenburg flying with a huge swastik on
its tail.
Speaker 1: Oh, let me jump in here for a second, goes.
I told Thomas we were doing this, and he threw
this in there. He said that Alan Dulles met with
Hitler in nineteen thirty three, one of the few Americans
to do so, and it said that he came away impressed.
Speaker 3: That's right, and that fact he kept secret from the
successive director for the Central Intelligence Agency until he was
on his deathbed, guy called Richard Helmes. So he kept
it very private after the war that he had made
and known so many different Nazi connections. And that's also
why there's a huge gap in all the primary sources
during the early Cold War, none of it. And I've
looked through all of the sources and reference for any
kind of German connection that was known during the old
the early Cold War. The only thing that I was
able to find was in a book detailing the rise
of the OSS and wartime activities in World War Two.
It was a very brief footnote mentioning that at one meeting,
Alan Dollas had to be away because he was negotiating
with German diplomats, and that document, that primary source used
in the book was part of the Truman presidential archives
and was marked as top secret with compartmentalized clearance, And
that was the one. That book itself was from the
official history of the agency. So all of these other
publicly accessible sources are included, but the CIA went through
that book specifically with a fine tooth comb to remove
any reference to any of the German dealings. So most
of the references come from things that are way after
the early publications about That was the book published Donovan
the CIA that is from nineteen.
Speaker 2: Eighty and so after Kennedy.
Speaker 3: The more recent one that reveals a lot of his
German connections, that's from twenty fifteen. That's the David tal
About one about Devil's Chess Board.
Speaker 2: Yeah, what you want to do is check the rock
off other archives for sure. That's where you find a
lot of the German stuff because he and his brother
only had one main client that they focused on. This
is why the lefties hate him so much, because you know,
if some pissant government of some pissant South American country
wants to get up at theat and nationalize a bunch
of United Brood or Standard Oil stuff. The CIA would
take time out of their day to fuck you in
the ass and take it all back and probably you know,
do bad stuff to you. So the lefties kind of
give him all the shit because like, oh he was
you know, you know, a servant of you know, capitalism
or whatever. Now he was a lifelong friend with David
and Nelson Rockefeller, and a lot of the business relationships
between Standard Oil, which there are many, and the Third
Reich bringing IBM in to the Third Reich, bringing Forward
and General Motors in a lot of the companies that
you saw in the Third Reich got there because two
of the top lawyers at Sullivan Cromwell and their largest client,
John Rockefeller, wanted them there. It wasn't just it wasn't
just John and Alan having these sympathies. This was the sympathy.
I mean, Pete, you remember our our episodes and the
robber Barons and like second or third when we go
through who all aligned against I mean short, this is
shortly after FDR was place and power. But you had
the entire upper crust of American society, Democrat and Republican,
trying to tear this motherfucker out of the office, including
the guy who was the president of the Democratic Party
and the previous presidential candidate, the guy that just put
him in there because of who he brought with him,
the communists, literal communists, Jewish communist underneath his little wheelchair.
So it was vital for the ruling class of America
while they were still ruined. It's not more than just kinship,
like you know, like, oh, you know, this is a
similar struggle. They viewed it as in their interest domestically
to strengthen Germany domestically.
Speaker 3: And I have some I have some evidence for that.
Let's see nineteen thirty seven. He says John Foster was
impressed by a man who, from quote humble beginnings has
attained the unquestioned leadership of a great nation. He also
stated in nineteen thirty nine Foster did the Germany's position
is a morally superior to that of the Allies. Alan
Dollas met face to face with Hitler in Hitler's Berlin
office in March of nineteen thirty three. He was ostensibly
on a fact finding mission to Europe for President Roosevelt,
but was particularly interested in determine what the rise of
Hitler meant for his lawform's corporate interests. I disagree with
the author on that. He probably already knows by this
point what the firm's interests are in Germany, if he's
been doing business with them for years. He was also
impressed with Joseph Goebbels.
Speaker 2: Okay, So, Pete, remember when we talked about how a
lot of the people behind the American Liberty League, So
this would be Henry Ford and and Jack Morgan, and
I Redo Pont. I Redo Pont a longtime funder of
hard right politics in the United States. Right, this is
the businessman. This is right at the time of the
businessman's plot, so to speak, right when these men and
the Rockefeller brothers obviously these men we're also what do
I mean like these men? So like Morgan, Ford and
what's his name? Townsend? No, Tom has finally you found
the I remember after talking to you about this, gentleman,
Tom Lamont. There we go. Anyways, these men were sending
several fact finding missions to three of the fascist nations
at the exact same time. So I would be disappointed
if I found out that Alan Dulles was on a
state funded fact finding mission. You know, in the Third Reich,
and he was not also doing the exact same thing
as in you know, uh legal capacity. Even though he
was there at behest of you know, Franklin Delano Roosevelt
and the administration, he was also a the He was
also the attorneys for a lot of these men and
representatives and sorry was their representative of their interests in
Europe anyways. So to think that Alan Dallas was not
on a similar fact finding mission in relationship to how
these fascist governments came about, how they sported a communist
revolution and instead brought in something new, because at the
same exact time Morgan and I Redo Pont are spending
six million or six or seven million dollars the equivalent
of like, uh, you know at the time four or
five billion dollars today, sending you know, groups of people
all with varying expertise, this historians, this linguists, not like propaganda,
and like media wasn't a thing yet, so you got
like they sent writers, they wanted like messaging, Like these
guys were actively studying fascism and how to bring it
about at the exact same time as Alan Dulls is
on a fact finding mission at the Third Reich, the
lawyer that represents all of these men in their business
capacity back in the States. I there's no way he
was not doing the exact same thing. I'm sure he
told Roosevelt he was fact finding some other shit.
Speaker 3: What do you know about the Bank for International Settlements?
Speaker 2: A lot?
Speaker 3: Okay, because that's that's coming up next?
Speaker 2: Is that? I bet it is.
Speaker 3: One of Doulas's most important contacts was a guy called
Thomas McKittrick, who was a Wall Street friend of his,
who was the president of the Bank for International Settlements.
Speaker 2: What was he the president before that?
Speaker 3: I'd have to look it up. If you know offhand.
Speaker 2: A bank and financial institution you'd have heard of. I
don't know if he was president of.
Speaker 3: Lee, Higginson and Co.
Speaker 2: Yes, okay, which would now be c in company. So
Bank of International Settlements, my friends, is a sovereign nation.
They issued their own passports, they have diplomatic immunity, they
have diplomatic cable immunity. They are, for all intent and purpose,
diplomatically and otherwise, a sovereign entity. They're as much of
a country as Liechtenstein is, even though they're just a building.
Is it like fourteen or fifteen floors, so they get
to do you know, diplomatic stuff, as in like move
people to places, move things from place to place without
them being interfered with. The Bank of International Settlements got
a lot of the Nazi leader the person. I can't
prove this, but I believe like my favorite, you know
ss Upper Crustman un Ober Group and fewer Hans Kammler,
the man was in charge of the commerce Stott the
fifty square miles in Poland that Los Alamos and the
Manhattan Project and later DARPA were based on. Right, The
accounts of his death are really really, really really sketchy,
but I know a lot of other Nazi leadership below
on over group inferior. They got out of the country
through the BIS. This is actually where the fondness for
Argentina came from, is that BIS is. I believe they
were restructuring the Central Bank of Argentina at the end
of the war. Anyways, But between that and Dallas's work
in Italy with propaganda due to Ballpark, we're talking about
thousand of third Reke officers and bureaucrats of various levels,
like actual party people got out of the country because
of Alan Dulls paper clip was just a drop in
a bucket of what he was doing. We didn't just
take scientists thanks to Alan Dulles. We took hundreds of
thousands of people out of the Third Reike before the
Soviets put them in camps and shot them. So for
anybody that says that Alan Dulls isn't down for the
cause a great risk to himself, both physically in post
World War to Berlin and professionally. He made it a
priority of Sullivan and Cromwell and all of the businesses
that Sullivan and Cromwell represented that we're in there. I
know it came out that a lot of I think
it was like four or five relatively high ranking, not
super duper high rankings. Again, those people are all you
know on lists came out when IBM pulled its people out,
and I believe the same for Standard Oil. He was
also the one that set up that leaned on Rome
heavily using the BIS because the BIS was doing the
banking for the papacy, I believe at the time and
through the leverage provided or basically through the leverage that
the BIS had over Rome, made the Catholic Church down
for the cause, even though they weren't super down for
the cause. But yeah, BIS is a diplomatic entity. Follow No,
everybody thinks it's just a bank. Yeah.
Speaker 3: I can go a little bit more into their specific
operations leading into World War two. So they were Five
of its directors for BIS were later at the end
of the war charged with war crimes. That was I. G.
Farban and one of the one let's see here, the
secret of BIS became the crucial financial partner for the Nazis.
The vice president of the Reichsbank, Emil Pool, who was
a close associate of McKittrick, once called BIS the Reich's Bank,
only the only foreign branch. It was responsible for a
lot of the Nazi gold management within Switzerland. One thing
is that BIS is located within Switzerland. That's not wins
all the kind of that kind of like trite fraying
that like all phrasing that all the Nazi gold is
in Switzerland accumulated during the war. I would presume that
that's because of BIS. Dulls is very very close to
McKittrick at the start and continuing through the war, and
both Dulls and McKittrick are not popular with either FDR's
inner circle or FDR's Treasury Secretary Henry Morgan, though, and
there was a time where the Roosevelt administration moved to
block bank for international settlement funds within the United States.
McKittrick hired Foster Dolus as the legal counsel who successfully
intervened on the bank's behalf. Morgan, though, was outraged in
the winter of nineteen forty two when McKittrick made a
business trip to the United States and was warmly welcomed
by Wall Street. These are the executives of several corporations
such as General Motors and Standard Oil. They had profited
from doing business with the Nazis, and a banquet was
held for mckindrick's honor at the New York University Club
on December seventeenth. Morgan thou then tried to prevent mckindrick
from exiting the United States to return to BIS headquarters
in Switzerland on the grounds that the bank was very
clearly aiding the Nazi war effort. Vice versa. Alan Dulls
came to mckittrick's rescue and was able to get him
on an April nineteen forty three flight to Europe if
you know about aviation at the time, it is very,
very hard to fly transatlantic during World War two. You
need a lot of permissions to do that. Dulson McKittrick
continued to work closely for the rest of the war.
They what is this project safe Haven Morgan Thou's Treasury Department,
which was trying to to fiscate a lot of the
wealth of the Nazis. Dulas and McKittrick within OSS and
BIS respectively worked to protect Nazi commodity interests after the war,
and Dulls believed that a lot of these powerful German
figures should be returned to political power within the post
war period. One interesting thing at the end of the war,
as an anecdote is that Alan Dulles when peace with Germany,
when kind of the overall this is like after the war,
but pre Nuremberg, Dulles is advocating for a restoration of
many Nazi officials within Germany. He doesn't want the Germans
to unconditionally and fully surrender and then be for whatever
we're criminally charged, which at Nuremberg is just bullshit. A
lot of you know, McKittrick and the Bank of International
Settlements had a lot of problems with Morgan Thou essentially
looting Germany and my earlier stream with a forestall on.
You know, Morgan Thou wanted Germany left destitute. It's obvious
that Morgan Thou's treasury was going to seize that wealth
for Jewish interests away from major German corporations. So throughout
the war there's it seems that there's this this kind
of behind the seams financial war between BIS and other
banking interests behind the Roosevelt administration.
Speaker 2: That's interesting. I wonder if any of that gold that
they would have tried to take would have made it
to would have actually made it to the destination as
they said, or if it would get lost, because I've
for a long time basically viewed it as well, Morgan
Thou's attempted to trying to get at the gold just
to be another you know, looting attempt that these people
are quite famous for. Because at this point, the Germans
have accumulated quite a bit of gold and quite a
bit of property. As far as rare art things like that,
the BIS was actually kind of critical and keeping a
lot of that stuff hidden. Majority of the gold never
got well, I'm assuming maybe Cia hasn't. I don't know,
but Dulles is I mean so often, and not just Astral.
I hope he listens to this. It's not just Astrail.
I have to constantly argue this point with. But I
have to argue this point with a lot, like a
lot of accounts. There are people that like refuse to
believe that this guy was anything other than a shit
lib at best and a collabor regime collaborator at worst.
I mean, is that that point is untenable. I don't
know what your thoughts are, Pilo, but is there any
way to read what the documents that you've gone through
and remotely see Alan Dallas says anything other than extremely sympathetic,
if not outright supportive of the Third Reich.
Speaker 3: I don't think there's so, I mean, there's there's not
another way to look at it, especially with this, uh,
this David Talbot book. If I didn't have access to
the other sources, it would be a little trickier.
Speaker 2: But what about Rheinhart Galand let's talk about him.
Speaker 3: I'd have to look him up.
Speaker 2: Oh, hold on, I got you. Reinhard Galen was the
head of Nazi intelligence.
Speaker 3: Oh, I have something on him.
Speaker 2: I hear, yeah, just preserve Galen. He didn't keep Galen
out of the news. He kept the entire National Socialist
Intelligence apparatus intact because he said he needed a fight,
because now like Patent, like Patent had already figured out
for him. Actually, it's not that you know, oh, we
found out later that we were going to be at
war with the Soviets next, or that the Soviets weren't
our friends. And this was a surprise. Almost everyone in
the American establishment, the military defense establishment, they knew this
from the beginning of World War Two. What they couldn't
stop is an administration that was sympathetic to the Communist
At no point in time did we think that you
were either a Communist collaborator inside the US government, which
Roosevelt and it really stems in his whole team very
much was, or you basically knew that these people were
going to be our enemy immediately afterwards. And by afterwards,
I don't mean the end of World War two, I
mean as soon as we can get this fucking guy
FDR at office. I think there was absolutely no illusions
to that. So the entire administration.
Speaker 3: Hold on one second, I have a source pulled up
for Galen.
Speaker 2: Once Stormy's ready cat removal, exactly, cat removal, she doesn't
get to hang out anymore. She's lost her inside privileges. Ah.
I was told that like that, men that have cats
are men that get women, and men that don't don't.
I surely hope so, because proposition is significantly diminished. If
that's not the case, it's absolutely one hundred percent tro
I think.
Speaker 3: So I have a wife and a cat, but they
were a package.
Speaker 2: Deal, I'd be actually lucky.
Speaker 3: Then I wouldn't say it was luck.
Speaker 2: Well, I would because you didn't have a cap force.
You obviously didn't understand women, So I said, I would
say luck is is probably accurate that you know she
was dumb enough to marry you. You are a very
lucky guy.
Speaker 3: I would say that. Yeah, I'd agree with that. Yeah,
Richard Galen, I have little Riinhard Galen. Excuse me, so
funny Littlennec thought about him who was at the nineteen
fifty one World Series with his CIA handler, and he
went there because one of his advisors was some kind
of autistic savant who'd memorized all these different baseball statistics
and uh, you know understand rein Hart Galen. So during
the war, Galen had served as Hitler's intelligence chief on
the eastern front of the Lemhost apparatus. They were looking
for weaknesses in the Soviet defenses let's see here. Most
so he was in charge of extracting a lot of
the intelligence out of the Soviet prisoners of war, and
he eventually rose upward to become a major general. The
big deal with him was that at the end of
the war, when he was realizing that things were you know,
the Germans were beat, he concluded that the US Soviet
alliance that was temporary during the war would split and
that some of the Nazi hierarchy would be able to
survive by journeying forces with the West against Moscow. That's
very common. A lot of Germans very intelligent. There's a
story about a fight pilot, a German ace who flew
into an American airbase in German, you know, as the
Americans controlled parts of Germany, and a lot of high
ranking people would much rather you know, work with the
Americans and again than get killed by the Soviets. That
was the blunt alternative of it. Because he went around
the Bavarian mountains at the end of the war, he
was able to bury cases of microfilm containing Nazi intelligence
in the Soviet Union. He then leveraged his expertise and
connections within Eastern Europe built up during the Eastern Front
Offensive to convince US military officials that he was indispense.
So he, unlike other German captives who get temporarily interned
within the US Midwest or worse yet, sent to BS tribunals,
he got transported out on a DC three and he
was moved into comfortable quarters at Fort Hunt, or Virginia,
and there he was introduced personally to Alan Dolls, who
decided on the spot to bring mister Gellen into US
government operation. So they were then sent back to Germany
in the service of the United States, and they were
centered in Pulac, a village near Munich, and that began
to lossom into the Gellen Organization, which was then West
Germany's principal intelligence agency. In nineteen forty eight, the CIA
then takes over the supervision of the Gellen Organization from
the US Army, and it becomes very clear, you know,
Gellen promised the army officials he wouldn't hire anybody from
the SS or Gestapo. But of course as it grows
and you need the most competent people, those are the
most competent men. So he hires all these different SS figures,
and especially as they're starting to get released from US
Army entertainment after the war in the late nineteen forties,
they're getting hired. Some people within the CIA wanted to
liquidate Gallon's operation, but it was shielded by Dulles. His
backing was primarily from the Dullest faction. In nineteen forty eight,
you know, the person directly put in charge of monitoring
all of Gellen's activities at the CIA in Munich was
a direct appointee by Dolls, and that this individual concluded
that Gallen's intel organization is performing phenomenally with two hundred
top staff and their wives and children living in this
intelligence compound outside Munich, and the decor of the main
facility had a lot of you know, Nazi adornment on
the building, which, if you know anything about the denocification programs,
that was like exceptionally rare. They went throughout Germany destroying
every Nazi symbol they could find, and the Germans and
Americans that were working together at this installation in the
early history of the CIA, grew very close. The Germans
and Americans working together there. Their families were going on
skiing trips in the Bavarian Alps, and let's see where
do I go from here? His overwriting goal, Gallon's goal
was to rebuild the Nazi power network and return Germany
to a dominant role on the European stage. One interesting
thing to know, is Thomas brings up occasionally, is that
it was made illegal to be right wing after Nuremberg
in nineteen forty five, and it was exceptionally illegal to
be a Nazi in Germany. Let's see one of my else. Everybody,
all the Americans, from what I can tell in the
CIA documentation that worked with Gellen had very positive opinions
of him, to the point where they facilitated him going
to the nineteen fifty one World Series because Gellen's aid
liked baseball and what else was there the nineteen fifty
one trip to America was Gellen was given the code
name Utility, which I think is very interesting. So he's
very good at what he does. And he also on
October eighth, nineteen fifty one. During this trip to the
United States, Gellen also attends a private dinner club with
Germans and several CIA officers, as well as Richard Helms,
who had run the US intelligence operations in Germany after
the war and also succeeds Dulls after his resignation in
the early nineteen sixties. Let's see. Yeah, all of so, Dulas,
interestingly enough, had invited Gallon to all of his different clubs,
the Metropolitan Club, the Chevy Chase Club, any time that
the German spymaster visits Washington. Dulas has this kind of
open door policy that's not unique to just his relationship
with Gellen. He's also like throughout his life, Dulas is
very open with how he's meeting people. What happens to
this Gallon organization in nineteen fifty five, they are let's see,
late nineteen fifty four, Dulles gets Gellen's eldest daughter into
a good US college and then so she gets admitted
to Hunter College in New York City. This is like
totally unprecedented for the time to have this tide of
a relationship. In nineteen fifty five, as the CIA prepares
to transfer the Ellen organization back to the West Room
and government. The agency generously gave him enough money to
buy a lakeside estate, and they Gallen purchased. Allegedly, it
was probably more likely a gift of about a fifty
thousand dollars estate. Gellen's code name for Dulls was the Gentleman.
Gellen wrote in his memoir, in all the years of
my collaboration with the CIA, I had no personal disputes
with Dolan. He pleased me by his air of wisdom,
born of years of experience. He was both fatherly and boisterous,
and he became a close personal friend of mine. What
other items are here? Whenever Gellen saw the US government
policy about the Soviet Union was beginning to soften or
weaken in its rhetoric, the Gallen Organization would decry it.
And you know the Soviet Union. Gellen said that the
Soviet Union enticed you with this and that, but underneath
its skirt one will see the cloven hoof of the devil.
Speaker 2: What else is there?
Speaker 3: Alan Doles had a soft spot in his heart for
the good Germans. JEdgar Hoover was also present. When other
items are there? I think That's kind of all that
I have to say on Gellen other than he was
extremely active as a West German spymaster, and that he
was worried about kind of the softening also of Germany.
Speaker 2: And his intelligence reports. Because let's keep in mind the
after rose and I think again, the more and more
I think back and I tied back different things, like
I haven't thought about Gellin in forever, but it reminded
me that the CIA, ever since Dulls was pushed out
of the agency he created by a man by the
name of who I've been screaming about for some time,
but has now recently come back into the spotlight with
the JFK document releases. One James Jesus Engleton. If you
want to know who pushed Ellen Dulles out of the CIA,
it was James Jesus Engleton shortly before JFK was murdered.
JFK did not have any JFK's beef with Dulles or
with with the CIA, had very little to do with
had nothing to do with Vietnam or the Bay of Pigs.
Even the Bay of Pigs wasn't a failure. All of
the guns that were supposed to be going to the
bay to the Cuban resistance fighters were actually being stolen
for Israel out of a shipping and whatsh McCall it
company Import Export company out of Virginia, and Alan got
word of it literally, I believe, I think the night before,
the day before, and went to Kennedy with it. So
Kennedy knew why the Bay of Pigs was a failure.
He didn't neither of them knew in time to stop it,
but I guess it was in charge of the Bay
of Picks, James Jesus Angleton, along with all the other
stuff that he did when the f But not to
get sidetracked, like there was no daylight really between Dulles
and JFK. Except for nuclear disarmament. He went way over
the top really, to be honest, I don't think a
lot of us today realize how much we probably would
have disliked JFK. If he had lived, he probably would
have gone down as a as a Jimmy Carter, what dummer.
He was so serious about nuclear disarmament. After the Cuban
missile crisis, he was having back channel conversations with Khrushcheff
about both countries' nuclear disarmament, you know, intentions, and both
men agreed that the priorities and the priorities of America
needed to be nuclear force reduction and eventual disarmament. And
khrush Chef obviously saying he's going to get a lot
of pushback and whatever. That's why they had to use
back channels, just the two of them, so like not
Soviet back channels and not like American back channels, but
like JFK familial relationships talking to Khruse Chef, familial relationships
outside of their own intelligence agencies and national apparatus. Kennedy
was going to start disarming first as a show of goodwill, like,
oh yeah, well, let's get rid of our nukes and
that that's how you'll know we're legit. If you have
trouble selling it to the rest of the polyp Buro,
it'll be much easier when we just get rid of
our own nukes. And Alan got wind of this, and
so did the Pentagon type people, and basically that's where
the static came from, which is also where a lot
of the static between JFK and David Ben Gurion came from,
because you know, trying to disarm the Soviets only to
find out that nuclear armament, rapid armaments happening in Israel
from all the shit that they stole from you. So
that's where the beef was. All of the stuff that
you've read about Douglas and JFK, Dear listeners, is bullshit
almost in its entirety, because if you talk about nuclear,
if you talk about what the real disconnect was, you're
going to land on Israel because it's all about disarm
it's all about nuclear non proliferation. Sorry, Corey Hughes's book
is probably the best on it. I think he did
a recent podcast with Astral and the one he did
with Jake Shields is really good, at least like the
last fifteen minutes. Talks exactly about what we're talking about
now and cites all the sources and his research is
really impossible to argue with. And he basically tells you
exactly what the relationship is with Dulls and JFK, and
it's not what you're told. This is also why he
went on the Warren Commission, so like after the death
of JFK and Lyndon Johnson. So if you're Ellen Dulles,
the guy that's been openly supported the Third Reich. You
and your brother openly hostile the State of Israel. You
and the now previous dead president. We're in the process
of trying to stop nuclear armed proliferation by the State
of Israel that stole the nuclear materials. Like, there's like
ten guys that know what the actual story is. And
the guy with all the political power JFK is dead,
and a person who is an actual trader and pussy
whipped by a urgoon terrorist is in the White House,
and Jewish power has just like wiped off the face
of the earth JFK, And very little attention gets given
to outside of JFK and RFK about the I don't
know a dozen and a half two dozen other people
that were in lower positions but also had all of
the same information and the same exact idea of like, oh,
this needs to be stopped. There's probably about twenty assassinations
in the JFK assassination. So if you're John, if you're
Alan Dulls and you're in your seventies or like late sixties,
what the fuck are you gonna do? You're going to
be an old man that has an accident, which is
what I'm assuming he was told, because the day after
JFK's assassination, Alan had already been pushed out of the
CIA by a whatever I'm trying to think of the
term for it. If it was if it was geopolitical,
I'd call it a false flag, but planting of evidence
and fuckery by by Angleton, his subordinate. He basically set
up a little mini privacy CIA out of his living
room with all the guys that got pushed out by
Angleton and a bunch of guys still at the Agency
trying to figure out what the fuck had happened. And
as soon as LBJ got into that fucking White House,
somebody apparently had a conversation with Alan and he closed
up shop immediately. So it's not like it's not like
they didn't know what's happening. It's not like they didn't
try and push back. But at that point in time,
they have all the cards. Like, yeah, at that point
in time, resistance to organize Zionism was impossible.
Speaker 3: Well in the building up of it as well, Like
for your call from the forest All Stream, LBJ met
with Forrest All in the mental hospital, along with all
the other pro Zionist elements that were in Truman's administration
at the time, and that was in nineteen forty eight
nineteen forty nine.
Speaker 2: Oh yeah, it was open season on anybody that was
against the Zionist agenda. And they had all the political
power to basic and you had what's his fucking face
in the in the Supreme Court, like they could basically
torment you out in public and there was nothing you
could do about it. That was a real dark period
of time.
Speaker 3: There was an interesting I guess there's many There's three
different angles that could kind of go. I'm gonna start
with the Angleton one and then go into Israel and
also nuclear I suppose Ah to know about Angleton.
Speaker 2: He was find that monument I told you about.
Speaker 3: Yeah, I have it. I pulled up as you were
talking about it. Yeah, I can tell you all right.
So for those who don't know within uh So, it's
located at Joe at Yemen musche So this is a
place that is immediately adjacent to the King David Hotel,
which I think is very strange. It's in the It's
located in all these key like like a park complex,
very close to Mount Zion and also next to like
these large the Menacham Bacon Heritage Center, which is is interesting.
But he has this little corner in this park and
to know about it. The park is located in a
spot I'm getting this off of the Jerusalem Foundation website.
The park is located in a spot Angleton visited and
admired in the early nineteen sixties when it bordered on
the barbed wire friends that divided the city. The project
was initiated by the then Mayor of Jerusalem, Teddy Kollik,
the Defense Minister Yitzaklabin, who later became the Prime Minister
and then was assassinated, and also the head of the
shin Bet Amos Manol, and the shin Bet is the
that's like the FBI equivalent within Israel. So there's the Masad,
which is kind of the CIA equivalent, and then the
shin Bet is FBI. This little corner for Angleton is
one of four small memorial gardens. Another one is the
Rothshield Rothschild Sitting Corner. So the location there is very uh,
it is very talent. I mean it is like it's
the nearest park over to the King David, which if
you know about the history of Israel, that was where
the I think the Ilgoon blew up the hotel to
kill a lot of British soldiers prior to Israel being created.
Speaker 2: Yeah, and they're big into something called a practice called geomancy.
Speaker 3: Yeah, I believe, yep, yep. This is true personal experience
on this. Like there's there's four not getting to a cult,
there's four cities within Israel at each correspond to elements
and the mysticism there, and they're like.
Speaker 2: Yeah, demon shit m.
Speaker 3: But I don't want to anyway. That the last thing
I'll say about I mean kind of the first. There's
so many things to say about this. The joke in
Israel when I was there was that there was a
textile factory in Deomona and that was code for the
nuclear site. So it's an open secret that when Israel
was getting its nuclear arsenal, that was set up at
Demona in Israel.
Speaker 1: And then.
Speaker 3: Oh okay, so that's the Israel stuff. That's Engleton.
Speaker 2: I can kind of who is the person that got
caught but whose apprehension was deliberately thwarted by one James
Usus Engleton. Right, So the one of the interesting intelligence
documents that came out. What I didn't know because I
knew about like all the Angleton stuff just from like, yeah,
like stories I would hear. And what I did not
know is that James Jesus Engleton with out. I'm almost
I can guarantee that Alan Dulls was unaware of this.
But James went to the FBI and told the FBI
that Alan wants him in charge of everything is reel
and Israeli intelligence because at this point and that everything
that the FBI collects should be brought to him directly,
not through like the other official channels, because you know,
the FBI had channels at the CIA, and if they
you know, we're working on, you know, come across some
counterintelligent stuff like oh, FBI thinks that like these people
are a bunch of fucking spooks. Okay, we'll go tell
the guys that are our spooks, okay, like they have
official channels for that. Angleton wanted it to not like that.
He said, on orders of Alan Dulles directly from the top,
We're not to bring any of the israel stuff and
any of the stuff that you guys find on you know,
any suspected Israeli intelligence agents operating in the US that
needs to come directly to me and I am going
to bring it right to Alan directly because we think
there's a mole. Well, so, what was what was James
Anglaton's job? He gave him this free reign? Why why
was he this person with that, you know, out of
pocket all the fucking time.
Speaker 3: It's the principal agency liaison for the Foreign Intel.
Speaker 2: Services now, but he was also the at the time.
At the time, the CIA knew that they had a
mole and someone was giving something to the Soviet It
was somebody was giving information to the Soviets. Guess who,
a person other than Alan Dulles. But I believe a
genuinely good person on person you suggested one James Jesus
Engleton to be the person that finds the mole. Except
for James's Engleton was an an asset for Israeli intelligence, Like, well,
that's not Soviet intelligence, is it, Except it was, we
didn't have a Soviet mole. We had an Israeli mole,
and Israel the nation was our Soviet mole. Because James's Engleton,
at the end of every single day would spend two
hours talking to a florist that had a that whose
shop was on his walk home, and nobody fucking suspected it,
like nobody bothered. Hey a, there's a florist owned by
a foreign national and the mole hunter of the CIA
hunting is like he stops by this same florists and
talks for two hours every day. And James doesn't have
any fucking flowers. He doesn't even have plants at his house.
Where the fuck is he talking? Nobody asked these questions.
But anyways, so the person who he was talking to,
I can't remember his name, but I believe he would
later become head of Israeli intelligence for a period of time.
But the person that got sorry was the person that
almost got arrested by the FBI, but James Jesus Angleton
stepped in and stopped the FBI arresting him when caught
stealing criytron triggers from you know, the naval docks in California.
Southern California was one bb net in Yahoo. Young Bibi
was the person that stole the other half of the
nuclear bomb, and he would have gotten caught because the
FBI had him pretty well stitched up. They also had
Demona pretty well stitched up. And the only reason Benjamin
att Yahoo wasn't on the front page of every fucking
newspaper in the country. Was James Jesus Angleton kind of
like your little quip about like, oh and there was
a time like you know, I should have taken that meeting.
I would have saw Lenin and I could have put
a bullet in his face. Imagine what the world would
have been like if Benjamin and Yahoo was still rotting
away in some fucking get mo place and the last
I don't know, twenty years, thirty years didn't happen.
Speaker 3: It's hard to tell. They wouldn't have the resources to
pull at Jonathan Pollard and get him extra dieted. That
whole ability to do espionage would be neutered. Can I
flesh out? I'm a little.
Speaker 2: More stuff would have lost their guy.
Speaker 3: Yeah.
Speaker 2: Uh, anyways, sorry.
Speaker 3: I think so it's interesting because, uh, what was the party?
I don't want to screw up with my Zionist history here,
but there's a reason I think yet such were being
commissioned to statute when he was defense chief, not Prime minister,
defense chief.
Speaker 2: Of political party. Uh in Israel lakut?
Speaker 3: Uh shit? Is that? Yeah? Uh?
Speaker 2: Or are you talking about the opposite of the opposition
party that was only in SELFUS one time.
Speaker 3: So generally it was like broadly leftist until nineteen seventy
seven it was mapile Veda, and then they switched in
nineteen seventy seven, uh to Monock and began and they've
been like pretty much solidly lacut ever since. So yeah,
Rabin is.
Speaker 2: Uh, Yeah, there's been a one party state ever since.
Speaker 3: Yeah, they they they split hairs domestically about this, but yes,
purposes the coalition, it is a one party state.
Speaker 2: Is that any different than what they do in the
United States? No, what really is the difference between a
Democrat and a Republican? What really is it? Like, Oh,
these are the things that we're going to debate fiercely
on and make it look like we hate each other
and we disagree about everything, but in fact we agree
about everything, and we pretend to disagree loudly about this thing,
and we only do it in front of you.
Speaker 1: At least the Reich didn't, you know, fake it. At
least they said all that their parties are illegal. You're
either with us or you're against us, because.
Speaker 2: It always devolves down to this always.
Speaker 3: Yeah, Yeah, I'd like to flesh a little bit more
circumstantial stuff about it, Angleton and then get into like
agency structure. Angleton was put in charge of the CIA's
relationship with the FBI. There's a big rivalry at this
time between FBI and CIA. Angleton was also pursuing a
CIA partnership with the mafia. Who are some of these
people that were getting involved with According to this, Angleton's
work also brought him into close contact with the agency's
rougher characters, including Chef Edwards's security cops who helped install
his bugs, and Bill Harvey, who was prominent in a
number of the agency's assass the nation jobs. Angleton shortly
after Fidel pat Castro took power in Havana, he summoned
two Jewish CIA officers, including Sam Halpern, who had been
assigned to the agency's Cuba team and the other one
isn't mentioned, and then both of them were flown to
Miami and set to meet with Meyer Lanski, who'd been
forced to flee Havana ahead of the revolutionaries. Lanski was
part of the Jewish Mob but had close business ties
in the Italian mafia. Angleton told Halpern and the other
Jewish CIA agent to see if they could convince Lanski
to arrange for the assassination of Castro's It's kind of
overblown at this point, but people like to talk, especially
in the left, about how many times the agency tried
to kill Castro by like pouring stuff in his drink
and giving him an explosive cigar or whatever else the
deal was. But I did not know that Angleton was
so prominently involved with this.
Speaker 2: Yeah. Cory Hughes also documents kind of conclusively that all
of that stuff about US trying to assassinate Castro was bullshit.
If you hear the I mean, and when he says it,
you're like, that's not true. And then you think about it.
If you know, like anything about how propaganda works, you're like, oh, fuck,
god damn it. Like whenever you hear public like that,
there's I mean, if it's like a cultural meme about
like the silly, cartoonish looney tunes acme fucking exploding cigar
things that the CIA tried to do to kill Castro,
that should tell you that the CIA is lying to you. Yeah,
just off off rip. They were the CIA after Dulles.
I mean, they made it illegal to be right wing
after Nuremberg, and after Dulles, they made it policy in
the CIA. The only reason that fucking bearded fuck lived
as long as he did is because of the CIA.
They've been a fucking left this institution ever since, ever
since Dulles, once the wasps were purged, everything in that
involves foreign policy out of the United States is leftist
if it's an institution that deals with anything outside of
our borders. After Dulles, and I guess you're saying maybe
maybe now even so, now after Dulles and the executive
branch has already fucking compromised. Second Nixon starts to try
and do his own foreign policy. Nobody told, nobody gave
him an update. Go by the way, we only do
leftist shit internationally. Second he tries to conduct his own
important policy, you've got to go. It's it's been a
leftist institution ever since. CIA is basically a total loss.
Speaker 3: Now is this a good time to bring up a
secret team? By Fletcher Prouty.
Speaker 2: It's always a good time to talk about the secret team. Okay, Sure,
it's an important thing for people to know. So everyone
should pay attention to this bit because it still applies today.
Just because a person is doing fuckery out of Agency X,
does not mean that they are an Agency X person
and that is an Agency X agenda. Sure, maybe from
somewhere else.
Speaker 3: So there's there's two interesting points before I start here.
The first is that, like something you can google when
you find in the CIA reading room, is that there's
a reading list for all of the different you know,
introductory officers to the agency, and that they have to
read a lot about the agency's history, but particularly they
have to read about the OSS. And if you know
about the OSS, you'll know that there's a bit of
a delineation between like intelligence collection that the agency is
doing and covert operations that the OSS is doing. And
another thing to bear in mind about this information, because
the book I'm referencing was published in nineteen seventy, is
that prior to the mid nineteen seventies, the agency did
not button up all of its top secret information as
tightly as it does now. Currently. You know, if something
is classified within the agency, you're not going to ever
get your hands on it. But back in the day,
in the forties, fifties, and sixties, because there's this big
confluence of different agencies and the CIA is still forging
its identity and clawing resources away from other federal departments.
There's kind of missed overlaps of compartmentalization for security or
clandestine reasons. So that's how someone like el Fletcher Proudy
can exist, and also that he can present the information
that he does in a way where it's not censored.
So to understand who this man was. El Fletcher Proudy
worked as the focal point officer for contacts between CIA
and DoD on matters pertaining to the military support of
the agency's special operations. He personally worked with Alan Dolls
and John Foster Dolls. He recommends a series of books.
I have some of them, not all of them, but
he says that there's only a handful of books that
really tell the true story of the agency. There's an
interesting inference to one of Doullas's famous quotes starting right
off the bat from Proudy. The first is that Alan
Dollas is quoted as saying that intelligence is about ten
percent real intel, in the other ninety percent or so
is clandestine operations. What that sets up for Prouty is
that Dulles believes that the agency is operating around the
world all the time countering all aspects of the Invisible War.
What this means is essentially intervening in the internal affairs
of other nations without their knowledge or their permission, beginning
in both Berlin and Iran in the late nineteen forties
and continuing all the way through until Vietnam, that pro
argues began as a major intelligence operation. Much of what
this Central Intelligence Agency as it is today, it has
become because of Alan Dulles. So to understand the overall
function of it, one document in my research that I
pulled up was something called the Dulles, Jackson Correa Report.
It's from nineteen forty nine and it follows the official
creation of the agency after the National Security Act of
nineteen forty seven. That's the document that formally creates it.
But it's very specific. It's very compartmentalized in the functions
that it grants for the intelligence operations. Previously, it was
something that was done under direct supervision of under the
Joint Chiefs of Staff. To go back to Forrestall, you'll
see that the intelligence capacities of the War Department were
very explicitly by Forestall record amended as Secretary of Defense
to be directly supervised by Joint the Chairman of the
Joint Chiefs of Staff. What this Dullest Jackson Carreer report
that primarily Dullest rights and is put out on January
first of nineteen forty nine, is that this is like
the blueprint how I, as head of CIA, am going
to set up, design, and internalize the agency's responsibilities for
it to function in exactly the manner that I wish
it to function as, not as it is explicitly set
up in previous government documentation in the National Security Act
of nineteen forty seven. Just make that complex point very simple.
The federal government in the late nineteen forties after World
War Two, transitions from OSS to CIA through it. It
goes through a series of bureaucratic processes. It gets stymy,
it gets changed. Congressman at various points, edit it alter it.
The agency is in a big period of transition, So
there's four directors of Central Intelligence before Dulls. But it's
essentially this underutilized government agency until Dulls writes this plan,
publishes it in nineteen forty nine, and that as he
presents it to Truman, it's essentially, oh, your audience coming
through stormy bad. It's all good. It's all good. The
Jackson Carrera Report then comes out. It's now Dullas's agency.
He is appointed after Korea after the Korean War is
kind of an intelligence failure to run and oversee this
and that is where sorry, I'm like really over complicating
this because there's just so much detail. So okay, the
Dallas Jackson Carrera Report was the CIA's mind coomp Doles
describes exactly how he's taking this from a low key
intelligence coordination center to a major power center in the
US government, and he can therefore position himself as the
closest advisor to the president. So the function of this
secret intelligence organization is to have a top echelon operations
facility at the White House level, a hidden infrastructure throughout
other departments and agencies of the government, and also the
greatest operational capability all over the world. So when you
read about Cold War era agency facilities, they're located everywhere
on the planet. And so how this comes to be
done from Dulles is that in the report in nineteen
forty nine, he recommends a daily twenty four hour briefing
being presented to the president and that the best information
and actionable and operationalized intel should be collaborated on and
resented solely by the CIA for the reception of the president. Now,
why something as bureaucratic as that matters is that the
agency has direct control over what the president sees, and
therefore they are the only organization in a position to
set forth the response to the intelligence. So intel comes in,
the CIA produces it, They recommend a plan of action
to the president, the President signs off on it, the
CIA executes it. It's a cycle, and that is what
establishes the agency into the most powerful organization in the
United States government outside of the DoD. Because the DoD
does not have such direct access to the president, they
have to go through the Joint Chiefs of Staff, which
is much more of a council and which is much
more hierarchical and is generally presumed to be an assigned
to be nonpartisan. But the CIA has no such limitations.
So let's see here, what is there to glean from
this rowdy is monitoring the agency? So okay, so you've
created all these different departments and the agency has control
and the era of the president. But what happens when
the president wants to derive information from DoD, Well, the
agency can just put somebody in the DoD. And if
that sounds insane, I'm going to give a real world example.
The way that the agency operationalized its offensive capabilities was
by working with it Crowdy as a focal point officer,
so he has to sign off on all the special
operations and the agency, Yes, it can purchase planes. But
imagine if you have a CIA pilot, a CIA you know,
team of operatives, you have a CIA electronics warfare or
like decoder on that plane, and that plane gets shot down. Well,
now you're fucked because the enemy country can look at
it and see that. You know, you can't have an
ID in one of those guys pocket that says CIA.
It has to have something else. So they would either
use foreign governments or they would use DoD. Now for
the DoD to have fake members created for the agency,
that requires DoD approval of the creation of those operatives.
So the way that the US government and in particular
the CIA, conducted offensive operations was they would have this
like like a d C six or like a d
C three, a Douglas aircraft, which is a fairly large
aircraft at the time propeller driven. They would make everyone
in there a member of the Department of Defense. They
would have ID, they would have rank, they would have uniforms,
they would have all US Army or US Air Force
weaponry and paperwork, but they would be Central Intelligence Agency.
That would just be a cover. And the agency realized
that if it could operationalize all these people all over
the world to do everything from reconnaissance to regime change,
to covert operations, whatever espionage function, guiding and training local
militias in country, why couldn't it just you know, if
you have a colonel flying the plane of a CIA
aircraft and that man is a CIA agent, why couldn't
you just have someone in the Pentagon who's CIA. So
I know that this is one of your core points, Stormy,
with how the agency puts agency people in various positions
of power. So do you have anything to add on
that point?
Speaker 2: No, that was extremely detailed and not being facetious. Aw
that was actually great. Yeah, so I can there, so.
Speaker 3: I can add on that. So like, okay, so one
other thing, give me, I'm just gonna turn the lights
on here, just perfect, okay, So page one forty eight.
So okay, so so proud. He's in this position and
he's seeing all these D O D guys getting flown
over the world that he knows are CIA, And ultimately
it becomes a point of contention because at the time
I think he's a he's a colonel, full bird colonel.
And I think you said something very interesting on your
last podcast, Stormy, which is that colonels are the ones
who really make shit happen within the US military. Generals
are much more of like a political role, but if
you want something to actually get done, right, I think
both you and Pete have talked about this, like there's
there's colonel McGregor, there's that other colonel who was also
featured on Tucker talking about the Ukraine funding. So a
lot of these on the ground guys are going to
be lieutenant colonels and colonels, and so he sees this
stuff on the ground and what he's let's see here,
I have to pull a good point, so I'll pull
this as a direct quote so it's more coherent. During
the past twenty years, there have been many times when
the Secretary of Defense or other military official has stated
that the United States needed to go ahead with the
development of a new bomber, a new submarine, or even
a new missile system because intelligence had acquired information which
indicated that the Russians had such a bomber, submarine, or
missile and if they develop it, then of course we
find that we're behind the times. So very very seldom
are these facts about military information revealed to the public,
even to congressional committees, and huge expenditures have been made
on partial information. Why do I bring up that kind
of institutional point, Well, because a lot of the information
that guides procurement in Congress or guides DoD experimental technology development,
like Trump just announced the F forty seven. Well, for
some accounts, it's been operational for the last five years.
DoD developed it because probably at some point someone in
the intelligence community wrote a briefing saying that the Russian
and Chinese are developing more advanced fighter aircraft. Right, So
DD would not have made that decision without agency advice.
So to understand how the agency operationalizes its own intelligence,
it's that there's monumental amount of raw political information out there.
According to Dulles. In Tragedy and Hope, Carol quickly writes
that Dulles said, ten percent of agency information is actually
legitimately classified. Ninety percent of it is open source intelligence information.
So that's all stuff that you can publicly see through
like reading newspapers or you know, just pulling a poster
off a wall or reading a political dispatch or something
in a government office. For the most part, like declassified
information is what it works in. So if that is
the case, using that information as a machine as a
function to turn it into eventually an ask with that
like very small amount of classified information to become like
adod weapons system that requires the selective release and control
and analysis of information. If let's see it's Grace Jackson report,
UH to do. As General Dolevant Donovan and Allan Dalls
had proposed, the very success of secret intelligence would from
time to time create its own requirements for subsequent clandestine
operations for no more reason than the intelligence input had
detected something somewhere. The legislators knew that clandestine operations would
grow out of the findings of secret intelligence, whether or
not there was any national plan or policy to carry
out in the first place. This is why the Donovan,
Dulles Clifford school of thought requires the existence real or
imagined of a constant enemy Communism. With a constant enemy,
every bit of secret intelligence that reveals the existence of
Communism is its own reason for the development of an operation.
Then the CounterPunch becomes the action of a mission, not
of minds. So I bring that up because the modern
conception of how the US conducts espionage overseas and how
it carries out covert operations is that the US like
systematically went to every left wing country in Latin and
Central America and Eastern Europe and just and Africa and
just like knocked them over needlessly. A lot of that
was on clear intelligence of Communism. And because this is
very key, and it speaks to like the anti communist
like pro Nazi element of dullest like the guys at
the top were looking at the United States as the
most powerful country in the world, which had poached the
best possible espionage operatives from the Nazis, and we're now
tooling them against the Soviet Union. So if you have
the most powerful country with the best people, you would
want to leverage that as strongly as possible against the
Soviet Union. And if you have the biggest stick on
the block, why wouldn't you use it on every possible
instance of communism that you could find in the world.
The next part I would talk about would be the
guatemal in a United Free Company stuff. I was wondering
if you had any thoughts on that, Stormy, But that's
a bit of a subject change.
Speaker 2: Yeah, we might have to save that for another day,
to be honest, that's a whole other tangent.
Speaker 1: Sure, Yeah, that's a I mean, that's a series unto itself.
Speaker 2: I think it's a good series because I think it
was the last time the CIA was actually doing things
that were for America. And anybody that thinks that it's
just for like rich people overseas possessions, they don't understand
how power works.
Speaker 3: I have a good, very specific incident on that point.
There's a good inside look at the agency from the
mid nineteen seventies from It's a Biography of Richard Helmes.
At one meeting in nineteen sixty one, this special group
at the agency discussed an incident in Singapore in which
two CIA technicians have been arrested while trying to polygraph
a potential recruit in Singapore's Special Branch of the National Police.
The polygraph operator had literally tried to eat his graphs
when he didn't like the results. So the Prime Minister
at this point, the brand new le kwon U, was furious,
and his anger only increased when an attempt was made
to bribe him with three million dollars in cash to
drop charges against the CIA people. And there's a back
and forth between at the time Bundy whose Secretary of State,
sorry George Bundy Andy special assistant to this fucking title,
special Assistant to the President for National Security Affairs. Very
arrogant guy, more State department than agency. He got into
an argument with Doulas over this incident. Bundy wanted all
future agency operations of this sort to be cleared in
advance with him. Dulas refused to agree. This was CIA's province,
the very heart of its expertise. Bundy was in effect
proposing that he be put in charge of foreign intelligence collection,
and that he was about to be entrusted with the
identity of just about every agent's in the CIA. Imply employee.
Dulas was not about to explain his objections to this
young man. He just said no. Dulles's tone was almost courtly.
Let's see, so Bundy says to Alan, you must realize
this has a political aspect to it. Dulas's tone was
almost courtly, his voice saw each word distinct. Yes, Mac,
I do understand that there are some political aspects to this.
Thank you very much for pointing this out to me.
But Dullest knew how to say no and Dullest one.
But that only brushes the surface of Dulas's underlying flint.
He was a hard man. He did not shrink from
ordering the assassination of foreign leaders, and as a general rule,
his charm but not his power, stopped at the water's edge.
At a State department meeting about how to how to
deal with Jamal Abdul Nasser, it's in the Egyptian president
I think around nineteen fifty six and nineteen fifty seven,
Dulles told a state department officer, if that colonel of
yours pushes us too far, we will break him in half.
The threat was not an idle one. Other national leaders
who elicited the anger of the Dullest brothers did not survive.
Mohammed Masadech of Iran and Jacobo are Benz of Guatemala,
for those who don't know. In nineteen fifty three, the
CIA overthrows the Iranian government because Masada nationalized Anglo Iranian
oil company, and I think they used Roosevelt's cousin or
something for that one. There's there's so many other sources
with this, like I haven't even touched a tragedy and
hope as well as shit, what's the other one. There's
a couple other little like stories I have about the agency,
kind of funnier, lighter ones. Sukarto was I think the
president of Indonesia in the nineteen sixties and the Agency
wanted him removed. And the agency thought that the best
thing they could do at the time was make a
sex tape of Sukarto because if they showed this sex
tape to the Indonesian public, they would be scandalized about
it because they were like a majority Muslim nation. So
they got they got this like fat Mexican guy who
looks like Cicarto to like fuck a prostitute. And then
they took that recording and they sent it to Indonesia
and like publicized it there and the Indonesians thought it
was Zukarto. But in Indonesia, you're like a big man.
If you're like promiscuous. So the popularity for Szukarto actually
increased in time. And uh was another anecdote about the
agency operations. I want to like quickly illustrate the difference
between like how the United States and how Israel does
things specifically.
Speaker 1: Filo, Let's let's do a part two.
Speaker 3: Yeah, sounds good. I know this is like, this is
a lot, this is a lot of topic.
Speaker 1: Yeah, because we're gonna we're gonna jump into something else
and and we could be like I said, I think
I started this off by saying I have a feeling
we could go three hours and if I don't cut
it off now, I think we will. And Stormy has
to jump too, so I will. Yeah, let's do that.
Thank you, Filo. Us do a quick plug, we'll get
out of here.
Speaker 3: Yeah. I have a YouTube channel, follow Spiscelani, not really active,
but that's my plug.
Speaker 1: All right, Stormy, you want people to follow you, follow
you on Twitter.
Speaker 2: Follow me on Twitter. That's the only thing I have.
And next time I will budget at least two hours.
Speaker 1: All right, Yeah, I think we're gonna need it. All right, guys,
I think this is enough for people to chew on
for right now.
Speaker 2: So it's important for people to know how like intelligence
actually works because it's it's such a a meme that
I think is kind of hurts people's understanding when they
try and you know, figure out what's going on.
Speaker 1: All right, all right, guys, have a good night. Thank you,
all right, boys, good night. Well to welcome everyone back
to the Peak Canana Show. I've been waiting for Part two.
Glad we could do it now. Stormy, how are you doing.
Speaker 2: I'm doing fantastic, pleasure.
Speaker 1: Filos, how are you also doing?
Speaker 3: Excellent? It's great to be here.
Speaker 1: Awesome. All right, Part two talking about the Dulles brothers
and the CIA and Filos. You remember where we left off,
so please just jump right in.
Speaker 3: I do.
Speaker 2: So.
Speaker 3: Where we left off was we were going through the
early nineteen fifties in the CIA and how the US
military had been infiltrated by the agency and how a
lot of these different points of information that we have
accessed to today or because there's a lack of classification
over them, and there's a few kind of smaller stories
about their activities. And a big takeaway also was James
Jesus Angleton. So just to kind of jog the audience's
memory there pretty obviously associated with Israel and all the
different operations, So there's many different angles we could work
on today with this. I'd like to still keep going
through the nineteen fifties in the Agency and talking about
a guy called Lyman Kirkpatrick. But before I get into that,
there is another subject I want to talk about, which
is how do I kind of couch this In reading
about the Dullest Brothers, there's all of these lefty and
progressive sources that are written describing these men as fascist
and authoritarian and oppressive for going around the world knocking
over native governments and causing regime change. And I wanted
to just very briefly address some of the more critical
perspectives against the Dullest Brothers and against the CIA in
the fifties, because so much of what we know nowadays,
so much of our perception of these men and their
activities is colored by a bunch of lefty academics. So
if you two are cool with that, I can kind
of go through a few academic presuppositions and I guess
kind of debunk.
Speaker 2: Of I'm cool with that. I'm also cool with my
Intelligence Agency toppling Nicaragua and Guatemalan hundering governments whenever they
want to fuck with United fruit or standard oil.
Speaker 3: So this is where this is where I imagine we're
going to find some agreement. So the first critical lefty
presupposition that you find in guys like David Talbot in
the Devil's Chess Board or the Chompsky Angle of things
is that all colonialism that happens in the world is
bad or evil. But rather than calling out these other
systems like the Chinese system or the Russian system, or
the Britain system or the French system, they'll go after
the United States because the way that the United States
conducts colonialism is I would argue, actually more beneficial than
all of those other systems. Something that's curiously absent from
most progressives is criticizing other forms of regime change and
economic dominance. I would argue that the Dullest Brothers going
into Guatemala and Nicaragua and a lot of these other
CIA activities, even the Cuban Revolution, it's actually much more
benevolent and respectful of a culture's autonomy than other countries
conducting colonialism. And how can I possibly justify that when
there's people getting killed. Well, what the Chinese do when
they impose colonialism on a country is they take out
a one hundred year lease on infrastructure development for ports
and highways and wholly cut out the native population. They
conduct widespread economic exploitation of whatever country in Africa or
Southeast Asia or Latin America that they go into. And
a similar system with the Russians and the Soviets. They
would come in and impose their ideological change, but generally
as long as the country was nominally communist, they wouldn't
care as much about the economic production that's going on there.
And before I try and really defend American colonialism, I
have to describe the British and the French background here
a little bit. So the world in which the Dullest
Brothers are operating is the beginning of the post colonial
world in the twentieth century. Prior to the nineteen sixties,
most of the world was directly administered in a colonial fashion,
and most of that was done by the British or
the French or the Americans. And the British system was
they would pick a country and they would establish a
cast of people within that country. They would point to
them and say this group is wider or more Anglo,
or more ready to be westernized than another ethnic group,
and then that first group would receive power, and then
they would totally dominate the second group by using British
colonial administrative structure with like a nominal overcast of British
administrative officials. This is why the British promoted the caste
system within India. And then conversely you have the French system,
and in the French system you have a very strict
colonial apparatus. Particularly this was in French West Africa, and
the French would come in with their system of Napoleonic
code and their departments, and they would entirely staff the
colonial regime on an indigenous meritocracy within that country. And
it's very unpopular nowadays to defend that kind of Western
colonialism against its alternative forms. But one thing I kind
of arrived at when researching the activities of the Dulles brothers,
I sort of realized that the modern liberal calculus of
just economically desecrating countries and having the IMF and the
World Bank go around in greater world economies in the
nineteen nineties and two thousands by allowing a Jewish international
capital to buy like a native state owned enterprise that's
actually significantly more harmful in the long term than a
short term regime change that the Dullest Brothers were doing.
It's a pretty controversial statement, So do either of you
have any thoughts on that.
Speaker 1: That Stormy?
Speaker 2: I do actually so right first off, like the in
this analysis, they are basically weighing one thing that's not real,
it's never going to be real, and then what we
do because if I am let's say, like an alien civilization,
I zip up and I find Earth. Unless I find
Earth six thousand years ago, might I have I'm everyone
would expect me to just take whatever the fuck I wanted,
and that that is the things that would naturally happen.
So there is not like an alternative, not an actual
real politics where we just come across either strategically valuable
real estate, whether it be location or in minerals resources whichever,
that we can leverage in actual life or death competition
with the other developed nation states. It's a game. It's
geopolitics is like the fucking Highlander. There's only going to
be one and when there's not, there's going to be
great struggle and eventually, we hope that some of these
struggles balance each other out. Right, and it's just infinity stalemate.
But any one of those participants, their aim is not
Infinity's stalemate, right. Their aim is survival. And the only
way to ensure a nation's survival is to crush its enemies. Right.
Politics is what its friend and enemy, And so there
are no neutral countries. If you're undeveloped, you don't get
to be neutral. Right, we have no reason to recognize
your sovereignty. You have something that is valuable, you are
enable to stop us from taking it. If we don't
take it, our enemy will take it and use it
against us. So that's the actual alternative, right, There is
no alternative reality where we just go, oh, this is
the Suez Canal, this may be really important. Well, these
guys don't look like they can get their shit together,
so I guess we've set the fuck off home. Then, huh, Like,
that's not a reality. So the reason the lefties criticize
only America is because we're the biggest and we're the best,
and they hate greatness. Right. If another country was the
biggest and the best, they would hate that country more
than us. Rights they need to align themselves with the victim.
Therefore they cannot align themselves with the Hegemen, so there
is no non colonial eventuality. So that's I think what
needs to happen as far as any type hold on
is I can have a screaming cat that's about to
get tossed outside for being a Brett taken from taking
from their filo.
Speaker 3: It's just something that came up as I encountered this
strange all of mirrors, especially when reading the David Talbot
book and Chomsky, because it looks at it looks at
like a very small Latin American or African or Southeast
Asian country and says they are just one Western educated
communist away from being a utopia, you know, especially when
they're talking. And we'll get into Guatemal a little bit later.
But the way that they refer to Guatemala is that
even though this country since and most colonial powers since
really the year eighteen hundred, since the Industrial Revolution, there's
just been even in the era of like after Bolivar
in the eighteen twenties, there's continuous resi regime change between
what is at the time very far right and very
far left regimes. The overall cycle of regimes within these
different countries far out paces anything that the United States
is able to even really conceive of.
Speaker 2: Well, okay, real quick, real quick, let me interjugte the
reason why, the reason why, the easiest way that you
can defend the US system of colonialism versus any other
right is simply because we are going to keep toppling.
So why did we rebuild Europe? Why was that important
to us? It wasn't because we particularly love French people,
and we know how you know, the people that were
running the show felt about German people at that time. Yes,
there was people that did not feel that way. Q.
Allen Dulles and John Foster, but we rebuilt those nations
at considerable expense because there is not more fertile ground.
More fertile ground does not exist anywhere in the world.
For communist revolution, then a bombed out shithole. Bombed out
shithole is about as good as it gets, right. It
is a revolutionary's wet dream. And all the countries in
South and Central America at the time were bombed out shitholes,
either bombed out by themselves or just shitholes day facto.
Either way, it's fertile ground for a communist revolution, as
you can see, because communism just catches very very quickly.
So if we are in a life or death struggle
against the Soviet Union, we have two options. I think
Thomas lays it out great when I think you guys
were talking about Vietnam right at the point in time
that you're talking about Filo. In the fifties and later
in the sixties, the US was losing to communism. Communist
we're talking up w after w after w all across
the Eurasian land mass and in Africa. So we just
don't fuck with these countries in our own backyard is
not an option. It's not right. We're not going to
become a garrison nation. And no leader, no responsible leader
of the American nation, would in any good conscience, do
that or allow that to take place. Right, if there's
any place that needs to be toppled, it's the one
in your own backyard. If there is a country full
of resources or just really real estate, that is the
country that you can't turn around and just you know,
let them exist. However, it's the one that is directly
connected to you via land. Right. The reason that the
US is in defensible position that it is is because
the people that hate us happen to have an ocean
in between us and them, So creating a situation where
they no longer have an ocean between us and them
isn't simply not allowed. So we didn't go impose some
harsh caste system like Philo mentioned. We didn't do the
terrible French way, which I mean still goes on today,
by the way, which everybody should check out, the West
African frank. We didn't do any of these. We just
did a test of anti fragility. Filo like Pylo just said,
We're gonna keep on toppling these until you can fucking
build one or assemble one that is resilient to communism.
And you're gonna try, and it's not going to be resilient,
and then it's going to be taken over or begin
to be taken over by communists, and then we're gonna
topple that one again, and eventually you will have a
government that's able to defend itself from communism that you
built yourself. Right, So we are forcing them right. The
US is acting as the evolution the rapid evolutionary forcing
function for resiliency, Like, yes, US companies will do business there.
The fact that there are US companies that do business
there is actually what stops the Communists from invading or
trying to take it over. Right, the same reason that
Trump's like, yeah, I'm not going to try and put
troops in Ukraine, but I'm going to put businesses in Ukraine.
I think it's a dumb idea because fuck Ukraine, frankly,
But if we're talking about Monroe Doctrine like my backyard,
then I do care, right, But putting businesses in Ukraine
is his way of not putting troops. It is as
much of a trip wire, right, So, once the US
business is there in Ukraine, if Putin comes in and
tries to take it away, it gives you the diplomatic
leeway to act the same way as if you had
troops there. So the population, since the hypothesis of US
not taking them in a colonialist effort does not exist
in reality, we have two options. We either station troops
there or poor capital into the country. Right, no matter
how many troops we station there, that's never going to
develop the country anymore. Will take what we want, but
there will be no knockdown there will be no second
and third order effects that benefit anybody else there, right,
So business is always going to be better than bullets.
And rather than imposing a form of government, we will
allow one to form organically. And if it is, if
it ever ceases to be able to defend itself against communism,
we're going to knock it over again. And we'll keep
knocking the sand castle Overlert until they build one that works.
But the key factor in there is they built it,
not us. So just on its face, the US's form
of colonialism is the best if we're viewing the you know,
happy feels of the natives as you know, the prime
judging mechanism. Personally, I think other forms of colonialism would
have been a lot more easy to administer because none
of that optionality would have been given to the native population,
nor would any of you know, anybody care about their feelings.
But if we're judging by the feels of the brown
people in these places, then the US is by far
the most superior, and the non colonial option doesn't actually exist.
Speaker 3: It's false, exactly. And there is not a peep about
the Chinese exploitation of Sri Lanka. And that's a very
Niche example. But everywhere that China goes and does business
in an undeveloped country, it will build extractive infrastructure, and
when it can, it will not interact with the native
populace at all. It will not give them a dime.
And the people, the Chinese nationals that exit China to
go live in a place like you know, wherever in Africa,
to go mine resources and put them on Chinese trucks
on Chinese highways to go to a Chinese port in
another country. When you ask them where are they in
the world, they will look at you and tell you China.
And there's a reason for that. There's there is no
autonomy or sovereignty with any other model of colonialism. That's
a very it's a very interesting distinction there. I'd like
to pivot back to the Central Intelligence Agency and the
Dullest brothers. Let's see here. So there's something to point out.
Very recently to tie it in. Trump recently appointed all
of his cabinet level officials. They all went through Congress,
most of them got approved, and they were all sworn
in on television. And usually when someone at cabinet level
secretary is confirmed by Congress, they give a brief speech
after being sworn in by the President of the Congress
in this case JD. Vance. You know, usually it's about
five or ten minutes, there's some media appearances, and then
they get to work. Well, the current Director of Central
Intelligence is a man named John Ratcliffe, and so JD.
Vance gets up there before the swearing in and Vance says, quote, Normally,
after I administer the oath, I would invite the new
guy to say a few words. But given that he's
the leader of the CIA, John Ratcliffe is not going
to give any remarks because every piece of knowledge and
hit his brain is actually classified. So he's going to
head straight to Langley and do the job that the
American people need him to do. That's a very interesting position.
How could a cabinet level official in front of the
Vice president say no words, give no speech, be accountable
not at all to the media, and simply walk out
of the room at the behest of the Vice president.
That is because as I explain the position of the
Director of Central Intelligence, it will be very clear that
this is depending on who you ask, the second or
third most powerful man in the country period. And that
all begins with Alan Dulls. The question has to be asked,
who is the Director of Central Intelligence? Who staffed the
Central Intelligence Agency between nineteen forty seven and nineteen sixty one,
that such a man of such power could come from
it and enter into a position to run it well.
There's three generations of men that are present in the
Central Intelligence Agency at this time. The first is a
senior group. These are American military men and corporate men
either in finance or law, that generally served in World
War One and who had vast foreign contact networks. These men,
I found in reading biographies and direct histories of the
agency are exceptionally competent, worldly, and political. The second generation
of men were the World War Two OSS guys. These
are highly plugged into military They are extreme experts in
the state of global affairs and also covert operations. To them,
they are the hammer to which every problem is a nail.
And the third group, the group that begins to come
into the CIA as it is set up, is the
new recruits. These are the people that are enrolled in
the Junior Agency Office training program. According to Lyman Kirkpatrick,
this training program rivaled the executive the best executive development
programs in the industry. Procter and Gamble. When someone in
the late nineteen forties and early fifties goes into the
Central Intelligence Agency, an entire year is devoted to formal training,
followed by three years of control and guidance by the
Office of Training. And what kind of people are recruited
into the Central Intelligence Agency? According to a nineteen fifty
one House Appropriations meeting, some of the most recruited quality
men in the CIA were actually FBI agents and military
officers and men from corporate fields. That I think is
very interesting that the CIA would be going into all
other government agencies and poaching their best people. And I
want to elucidate an example of a man who is
detailed by L. Fletcher Prowdy, and that man's name is
Lyman Kirkpatrick, because I think the trajectory of his career
really shapes out how the Central Intelligence Agency is taking
shape at this time. He why should you care about
him in relation to Dolls. Well, he was the executive
assistant to the prior Director of Central Intelligence, Gender General
Walter Biddell Smith, and he was also the Inspector General
of the CIA, appointed by Dolls. This man also created
the Defense Intelligence Agency, and he also wrote the Keystone
Report on the Bay of Pigs invasion. So the reason
that you should give a shit about Lyman Kirkpatrick is
that he is the highest authority in the Central Intelligence
Agency that wrote a detailed primary source book after his service.
And he's also one of the very few men, one
of three, that L. Fletcher Proudy believes realistically depicts the
inner functioning of the CIA. And we'll start off with
how he was recruited into the agency. Prior to the
nineteen seventies, really intelligent people would be recruited on merit.
It's kind of the opposite today. It takes about two
years to get into the agency. Kirkpatrick was recruited, Okay,
So I'll just give a brief exposition of his life.
He wrote a book in nineteen sixty nine called The
Real CIA where he details all this. So Kirkpatrick graduates
from Princeton in June of nineteen thirty eight, and he
was urged by his boss, a former naval aviator, to
apply for a commission in the Naval Air Intelligence. He
gets rejected by the Navy for being mildly colorblind in
May of nineteen forty and through a friend he's introduced
to wild Bill Donovan. At the time, in nineteen forty,
Donovan is heading up the Office of Coordination of Information.
Based on the interview, Donovan really really wants this Kirkpatrick
guy on board. Kirkpatrick knows this because as he is
hanging around federal buildings trying to get a job after
being rejected by the Navy, an agent comes up from
the Civil Service Commission and flashes a badge. Kirkpatrick looks
at this badge and he realizes that this is a
fake person. And if you recall, during part one of
this series, the Central Intelligence Agency and also the OSS
was very adept at getting fake people created to staff
government agencies and the military. This is a tool that
they're able to use to get information out of people.
So this man who walks up to Kirkpatrick does not
actually work for the Civil Service Commission. He knows the
investigator is obviously a little new and he's investigating on
behalf of Donovan's organization to try and find out Kirkpatrick's background.
Kirkpatrick knows this because the investigator mistakes him for his boss.
And so this man comes up to Kirkpatrick and says,
you know, what's you know? Are you know? Do you
work with Kirkpatrick? And he goes, well, yeah, you know,
where's this going to go? The first question is did
Kirkpatrick's attitude towards the war change any after Russia became involved?
This question was asked in right after I think Operation
Barbarossa in early nineteen forty two. And why would a
spook interviewers first question be about Russia in nineteen five?
I wouldn't it be some kind of allegiance towards the
Nazis or some kind of overall sympathy with communism. I'm reminded,
Stormy of your point that all of the really involved
players in World War Two were concerned about the Soviet
Union right from the start. So he goes through this
brief questioning process and then he doesn't really think much
of it. He's being vetted at this point by several
government agencies. He then gets a call very mysteriously from
the Secretary of the Navy himself. So at this point
Kirkpatrick isn't in any government agency or service. He's just
agreed to work in Donovan's department, and the Secretary of
the Navy asks this Basically, this nobody. Come into my
office and you and I are going to have a talk.
So he comes in and very quickly he's sitting in
front of the Secretary of the Navy, and the secretary
asks him, how would you like to become mission tomorrow
is a Navy ensign, and Kirkpatrick says, no, I've agreed
to join what will become the OSS. And the Secretary
of the Navy leans over his desk and he says,
don't go into that crazy outfit because there's no rules
and there's no regulation. So Kirkpatrick, again similar to the
fake military personnel, gets a direct commission in the Army
even though he's not in the military, and he was
rejected from the Navy. So he has a very illustrious
career in World War Two, and as a fake Army
lieutenant he is personally advising General Patton in General Bradley,
and then through his meteoric rise, he eventually becomes the
number three man at the Central Intelligence Agency. So why
does this matter? Why does this one man his trajectory matters. Well,
it's sort of an archetype for how this central intelligence
agency could orchestrate control over different aspects of government in
order to bring the most meritocratic person to their operation.
And this was the thrust as the organization was beginning
to coalesce together after the war as well. And I
want to bring up to contextualize Dulls. I want to
bring up briefly the previous Director of Central Intelligence, and
that is a man named General Walter Bedell Smith, who
was DCI from October of nineteen fifty to February of
nineteen fifty three. Interestingly, when Dolls replaces him as DCI,
Smith goes on to join the board of United Fruit Company.
Very interesting little fact there. The mood at the time
when General Smith was DCI was that the Korean War
was the final blow needed to force the United States
to revitalize its defense establishment and also to build a
modern intelligent system. And at Smith's right hand is Alan Dolles.
So General Smith arrives in DC in October of nineteen
fifty and he calls Dulls at his law firm, Sullivan
and Cromwell, and he says, verbatim, you wrote the report
on the CIA, now come to Washington and help me
implement it. At this time in the Central Intelligence Agency
in nineteen fifty, there are two units operating overseas. Clandestine
collection is by the Office of Special Operations, and the
covert operations are conducted by the Office of Policy Coordination.
The OsO has elements of State Department and DoD, but
the Office of Policy Coordination is just agency. So under
Dolls's direction, he consolidates these two halves, and that's where
the recruitment of people to sort of act as fake
military members or government officials becomes entirely the purview of
the CIA. So to make this make sense, he is
removing administrative control from non CIA departments in order to
create more ambiguity about getting people involved overseas that represent
those departments, because you don't want somebody who reports into
State Department saying, hey, there's a guy walking around here
who's claiming to be a member of the State Department.
You know, do you have him on record? Well, no,
he's actually agency. That no longer is a problem. So
General Smith is initially opposed to wanting both of these
things combined, the Special Operations and the Policy Coordination combined
into one organization, but Dulls has been pushing for this
since May of nineteen forty eight, and in June of
nineteen teen fifty one. He combines the Latin American divisions
of these two departments as the first keystone move. Now,
early in his career, Dullas hadmanned the Latin America desk
of the State Department, and that becomes very critical as
you start to get into the United Fruit Company in
guatemal later on. Let's see, the CIA then begins under Dulles,
And there's a few interesting facts here. So the CIA
is formerly under Dulles's control from February of nineteen fifty
three until November of nineteen sixty one, and according to
one of his successors, Richard Helms, the National Security Act
of nineteen forty seven gave Dulles authority over the entire
intelligence community. It's been claimed that Dulles was, you know,
threading many different bureaucratic parts within the agency, but honestly
a more objective look. And this is according to Richard
Holmes personally, that all that Dulls ever gave a shit
about was operations. He cared about how to recruit KGB officers,
he cared about the vulnerabilities of on cooperative foreign governments,
how to get information from friendly intelligence services, and he
didn't really care about the line items of multi billion,
multimillion dollar budgets, and why does he have this free
bureaucratic movement. Well after Eisenhower created the President's Board of
Consultants on Foreign Intelligence Tech activities, Dulles suggests, you know,
he creates this board to consult on these activities. Every
single person, all ten members of this board are handpicked
by Dulles, so they have complete control over him, over
the activities of the committee. And they're trying to also
pat him on the back. They're putting him Dulus more
and more into the White House. And the other close
coordination that Doulas had to access at this time period
was his brother, John Foster. DoLS is Secretary of State
and he wants an activist CIA. So Dolus himself is
very very good at conducting these operations. But there's a vulnerability.
There's a setback, and this is from Lyman Kirkpatrick, who
he has a meteoric rise in the Central Intelligence Agency.
He would have been director, but he contracted polio on
assignment in Southeast Asia on nineteen fifty two, and this
precludes him from really being able to rise to position.
The Kirkpatrick writes that in early nineteen fifty four, McCarthy
is continuing to attack the Central Intelligence Agency because supposedly
there's a whole bunch of communists that are present. This
is something that comes up very frequently with McCarthy. His
tactic is to point to a government administration and say
that there's a secret cabal internally that is a group
of communists that's all working to advance the communist agenda. Now,
for the most part, that's completely accurate and true, but
it's not true for the Central Intelligence Agency. And Doulas
takes this very personally. He's extremely anti communist. The unbeknownst
to McCarthy, and according to Kirkpatrick, the CIA had been
completely and thoroughly investigated after World War Two for communist activity,
regardless of employment or the security clearances that anyone within
the Central Intelligence Agency had held. So Dulls knew that,
for the most part, everyone at the CIA was pretty
clean in terms of Communist activity at the time, according
to Kirkpatrick. But Dullus goes further. He sits down at
a meeting. I wouldn't call it a meeting, it's more
of a convention. He puts six hundred agency employees in
a room with him, and he says to all of
them directly that he will fire anybody who goes to
McCarthy without his personal authorization. Dullus also notes in a
different source that quote, since I have been with the CIA,
a mountain of harbd evidence on communist intrigue has passed
over my desk. Soviet spies have been operating in the
United States for more than forty years, and the apparatus
all over the world went into high gear for the
Cold War. So that explains the emphasis on the anti
communist tendency within the Central Intelligence Agency, and they would
end up doing much more like pro lefty activities after
the Dulles brothers are outed. But there's another quote here
that is from a book called The Cultural Cold War,
which claims that the CIA influenced and infiltrated the cultural
sphere of the left wing progressives and bankrolled them. Everyone
from Isaiah Berlin to Jackson Pollock, to bertrand Russell Desartra,
they were all in the CIA payroll. And well, people
might associate that with Dulls. That's actually not quite true.
In the book, it says about men like Dulls that
these men like Dolls quote school in the principles of
a robust intellect, athletic prowess, pilyitess, noblige, and solid Christian ethics.
They took their example from men like the Reverend Endicott Peabody,
trained in the Christian virtues and the duties of privileged.
They emerged believing in democracy, but wary of unchecked egalitarianism reversing.
This was the elect that had not been elected, So
a lot of the other I'm gonna I guess I'm
straying a little bit, But basically these guys were extremely
motivated internal to their own agency to get rid of
the communism that was present. And how they actually conducted
these operations, well, okay, they had a legal network that
was also present in the agency. It was very limited
in its scope and its manpower. Right, This is the
uh More espionage side of the house. Every important American
embassy and consulate has its quota of CIA men who
are given a cover rank but whose work escapes diplomatic discipline.
The CIA Legal operative reports directly to Washington. His job,
like his Soviet counterpart, is to recruit illegal agents, build
up contacts with non governmental forces in the country, and
collect information through sources not available to the regular embassy staff.
So this begins to create kind of an elite class
of people within the CIA. So you have the analyst
side of the house, which is usually you have a
country desk where you have anywhere between half a dozen
to a dozen experts on any given country. They all
have a specialty area for that country. One person is
very very knowledgeable about the economics of a country, the
other knows a great deal about the religion. Another person
knows about the recent history and political situation of the country,
and those people form an analyst collective about the country,
which then will create intelligence reports based off of mostly
open source intelligence information and sometimes clandestinely gathered information like
satellite activity. I should also stress that this is prior
for the most part. I think Stormy can correct me.
This is prior to a lot of the psychic activities
that were going on at the agency. I know that
they had mk Ultra, and I listened to Astrol's episode
on that, but I'm not an expert in that area,
so I'm not going to over extend myself on that front.
Speaker 2: I started in the six in the in the late
sixties early.
Speaker 3: Seventies, sure, okay, so also came out.
Speaker 2: Of it also came Another thing is that while this
is happening in the CIA, another thing that you another
group that you will butt into when you butt into
the CIA, which is a lot harder to find anything on, frankly,
is the Naval Intelligence. And it's a naval intelligence kind
of sits in the background, right. So as he's describing
all this, keep in mind that all of the branches
of the military have kept and grown their own intelligence
off agencies internally, and they're the only people with equally
as unlimited and equally as unchecked and equally as classified budgets.
So sometimes these groups will overlap. Remote viewing I believe
came out of the Pentagon.
Speaker 3: First, and it would kind of track with the overall
trajectory of the intelligence community because this number three man
at the CIA, Limon Kirkpatrick, he founds the Defense Intelligence
Agency in the nineteen fifties. He's response and he's called
the father of the d IA by people within that community.
Speaker 2: And yeah, there's not much Defense Department in the Defense
Intelligence Agency though.
Speaker 3: Sure, I mean it's it's mostly uh, I'd have to
like double check the information there, but it's it's a lot,
it's a lot of O. And I right, yep, yeah,
I mean that because that makes sense because the Office
prior to I have a book on the origins of
the OSS. It's the big internal CIA one had to
be gone through twice before they were able to publish
it by Troy Baker. I think that one to.
Speaker 2: Say, a good example is like the Defense both the
Office of Naval Intelligence had their own I guess Warren Commission,
all right, that was strictly internal for them, and you
still can't get the classified not even a single freaking
page of it, including the Trump administration, you can't get it.
Speaker 3: I know that they were the dominant intelligence force in
the country prior to World War Two. I mean, that
was it. There was. And also if you look, you know,
I think kind of the hidden story about Kirkpatrick's recruitment
is that, and it's very interesting. So there's this unspoken
subtext of a relationship between the Navy and the recruitment
apparatus within the OSS. Right, so the Secretary of the
Navy knocks, he knows, I mean, he is informed the
next day, you know, because he calls this candidate, this
Kirkpatrick guy. Because if Oss wants him. He's been rejected
to be enable candidate. The only the only way he
can secure his loyalty is, you know, he says, hey,
do you want to commission tomorrow? I mean that's and
that sounds people might not appreciate just how major of
like that doesn't happen.
Speaker 2: It doesn't the president you exactly, like the President of
the United States calling you saying, hey, do you want
a job tomorrow?
Speaker 3: Right, So, there's there's there's there's many things going behind
the scenes, and who.
Speaker 2: Knows univers If you notice, all the CIA guys tend
to come out of where CIA leadership, right, So, I
guess you could say, like the class structure within the CIA,
so to speak.
Speaker 3: At the time, they're all coming out of Yale and Princeton.
Speaker 2: Yeah, yep. How come we never see like a West
Point or any of the other military academies which are
far harder to get into than Yale. I would imagine
those guys mentioned.
Speaker 3: My guess is that they've already been intoctrinated with do
D thinking the methodology of war gaming things. And you
know they've also been trained very hierarchically and with an.
Speaker 2: Oh yeah, all these guys were routing. These are all
the most important thing.
Speaker 3: This is a great book called Wise Men by Walter Isaacson.
It details how all these guys, you know, all the
World War One guys. There's also a huge thing for
Navy intelligence. So Kirkpatrick's boss was a naval aviator and
all of the people that founded early UH naval aviation
and Navy intelligence that were working in that field. These
guys had like all of the powerful connections that are
going on. And I mean it's it's still the case,
like it's uh, you know, you know, find me a
very interesting parallel today is if you look at all
the people that are in charge of the Department of Defense,
like the Joint chiefs of Staff, they're all fighter pilots,
but also overrepresented as like the Navy's opinions. I mean,
then the Navy really runs the show when it comes
to the bureaucracy in DC nowadays. And also like basically
like throughout American history, Yes, you know that the Army
is out in the nineteenth century fighting the Indian Wars.
The Marine Corps is deployed you know, all over the
world to you know.
Speaker 2: The Googles. But yeah, the Marine Corps, the Marine corps
under who now at the time and still are technically.
Speaker 3: Then the Navy, yeah, exactly, and so all these naval
personnel are in d C, and all the admirals and
all the general staff, and uh, if you look at
Trump's changes, you know, well, here a.
Speaker 2: Real quick example that everyone at home can google. Right now.
You can do it too far, though, I'd love to
actually hear your opinion. Type in pentagon militia, destroys kills
whichever pick an adjective, Cia, militia.
Speaker 3: Okay, I stand by here.
Speaker 1: Yeah, I remember this.
Speaker 3: I remember what Los Angeles time sorticle. Yes, oh, man,
I could tell you about this one.
Speaker 2: Yes, yes, the CIA was trying to at the best
of I guess you can call it at the best
of Zionism. This is the thing is that I didn't
want to interrupt you, but Alan Dulles was right about communists.
He just didn't really understand communists all that. Well, you
could hate communists and be very anti communists and not
understand communism. And let let's say the way the three
of us understand communism, right, we understand communism a little
bit differently, and we understand that there's no difference between
that and Zionism, right, guys. So he may have had
a blind spot because the reason why Alan Dulles couldn't
figure out how the Soviets kept on getting all of
their shit was it never occurred to him that it
was Israel giving all of the materials. The mole that
that James Jus Angleton was, you know, commissioned to find
this Soviet mole wasn't in fact the Soviet mole at all.
It's a Zionist mole, and he was it. James Ington
was the guy that he was supposed to find. But
who was Zionism at this point? Find me a Israeli
prime minister? Who's I have to covey at this because
I could just say every Israeli prime minister was a
former member of the Soviet intelligence apparatus. But then I
have to caveat that because Benjamin and Yahoo exists and
he's just the son of two Soviet intelligence officers.
Speaker 3: Well all of them are huguanah Iragoon. Yeah, every single
prime minister and they were also what.
Speaker 2: I mean, organized crime and intelligence go like handing glove right.
Speaker 3: Yeah, absolutely with Angleton as well. There's some little interesting
anecdotes about Angleton I.
Speaker 2: Try and tell people like the Masad existed before, long
before the state of Israel.
Speaker 3: Yeah, absolutely, I mean, you know, reference the previous uh,
previous streams on forrestall and you know, just the the
prevalence like Angleton. Engleton's deathbed said, you know, he said,
I'm going to burn in hell for all eternity for
what I'm what I've done in my life. And uh,
there's some very there's some I mean, he had some
realizations well, you know, and it's interesting reading the David
Talbot book on him, because you know, the reason Doulas
didn't suspect Angleton is because they were very close. Uh,
you know, there was a huge amount of trust that
Dulls put in Angleton. And I'd have to pull up
the source here, but.
Speaker 2: It's it's the same thing that always gets them. Why
would a Princeton guy like, why would a man of
my class? Possibly? This is how, this is how everybody
missed Kim Philby. All right, there's no there's no there's
no daylight between Champagne socialists and communists and all these
little posh boys. Their life kind of lacks a certain
type of excitement and being a double agents pretty exciting,
you know they. I believe Dulles missed Angleton for the
same reason that everyone missed, and I six missed Kim
Philby right because for him to throw in with the
Communists would be so unimaginable, because glaring in the face
long before national betrayal would be class betrayal. So I
no one saw FDR. All of the people that were
aligned to try and oust the recently elected FDR, A
lot of them had the last name Roosevelt. Nobody ever
sees class betrayal coming.
Speaker 3: Yeah, not all of them betrayed either, Like Kermit, Roosevelt
was involved in the most standard oil the Iranian action, one.
Speaker 2: Hundred percent, Like dude, a majority of Roosevelt's entire family
was like part of the campaign to oust FDR. Like
the level of betrayal, they were the most they were
the most vehement, like the most venomous anti Roosevelt people
were members of the Roosevelt family. Because of that betrayal,
it caught them so like they couldn't they couldn't imagine it.
And I imagine that this is why why Dulles couldn't
imagine class betrayal. Let's put this way, Like what you said,
it may sound really corny, but the quote that filoed
just that read out earlier about what these men were
actually like, what their values were like, right, what their
religious faiths were like, and the type of priority in
prominence these men put into matters of faith. It leaves
them open for this type of thing because it is
physically impossible for a man like Alan Dulles with the
values and beliefs that he has. It's his whole paradigm, right.
It's not like, oh, these are my values and they're
like this line item list right, these are my bullet
points right here. These are all the things. That's not
how it works, right. All of these things are part
of his paradigm. Right, they physically represent the way that
like they physically are not represent They are the lens
in which he views reality. He lives through those, He
analyzes all information through those, He experiences life through those.
He understands the options that are available to him at
any given time through those, which is why the class
traders always get through always.
Speaker 3: There's a very interesting uh. There's two very interesting elements
to Angleton. The first was that when he was in
school at Yale, he founded a very modern evant gard
literary magazine and was very into modernist poetry, which later
became The Beats and Everything else, and they got a
lot of CIA funding from that. So Angleton there's a
very interesting thing, which is that he was exceptionally interested
in the metaphysics of assassination, and people that worked with
Angleton said one did not always have to agree with
him to know that he possessed a unique grasp of
secret operations. As a friend remark, he had the ability
to raise an operational discussion not only to a higher level,
but to another dimension. It is easy to mock this,
but there's no one within the agency with whom I
would rather have discussed a complex operational problem than Angleton.
Angleton's activities ranged from opening the mail of US citizens
to wiretapping the bedrooms of CIA officials. It was his
job to be suspicious of everybody, and he was keeping
a treasure trove of set files and photos in the
locked fault in his office. Every morning at CIA, he
would personally report to Dulles on the results of his
quote fishing expeditions, as they call this electronic eavesdropping missions,
which picked up everything from gossip on the Georgetown Party
circuit to Washington Billodstock As Dulas was well rare. Angleton
had even tucked a tow explicive secrets about the CIA
director himself. That is why Dullas had rewarded him with
the most Well, I disagree with this. That's not why
Dallas rewarded him with the most sensitive job. It's not
like blackmail. It's because he had like really full trust
of Dulles. He also like a lot of Angleton's coworkers.
They were all Ivy League graduates. Engleton was a huge
fan of Britain and had attended the upper crust British
boarding school Malvern, and he worked a lot with British
secret intelligence. And what else was there?
Speaker 2: Also why he didn't see Kim Philby coming?
Speaker 3: Yeah, so Philby is a little interesting. Let's see what
can I find about Philby? M zoom in here. So
they're like families just.
Speaker 2: For the listener, these people sound irrelevant, But these people
have far more to do with the with history being
created than really anybody in any elected or visible position
of power in either of these governments or any of them. Frankly,
Alan Dulles shaped world events, historical events far more than
anyone in Congress, far more than any individual army officer.
General doesn't fucking matter. Any president doesn't matter. Like these
are the men and actually create history. This is why
it's important to know them.
Speaker 3: And it's even more interesting because generally most people are
aware of the fact that Eisenhower is not personally going
around approving all these foreign government interventions. I mean, it's
pretty standard knowledge nowadays that Dulls and the Agency were
wholly responsible for all of this. But there's this weird
cognitive dissonance over the fact that something similar could be
happening today that the people.
Speaker 2: How Eisenhower was the compromise between military intelligence and civilian
intelligence because who was at the height of their power
after World War Two? The military they frankly run American society,
They run the American political apparatus, right, it was, he
was the compromise between the two.
Speaker 3: Factions, exactly, And the CIA took a lot of ground
from the military element because of the Korean War. And
you know, initially off the bat, the UH that the
military intelligence component of it really dropped the ball on
it because the Koreans had been building up their forces
for months before the invasion. But UH, back to like
Philby and Angleton. Yeah, Philby and Engleton were both British schoolboys,
you know they were. They grew up together and their
families hang out and uh would do dinner parties all
the time. And one thing that was Richard Helms was
like a party to both of these people. And he commented, Uh,
I have no doubt that the exposure of Kim Philby
was lodged in the deepest recesses of Jim's being if
he were the sort of Oh that's the separate part.
Angleton told a friend in British intelligence after the betrayal, quote,
I would kill Philby. The betrayal was painfully intimate. Let's see,
you know, there's a separate point. William Colby, who was
the guy who finally terminated Angleton's tenure in nineteen seventy five.
So Angleton's like active for a very long time. The
guy who terminated him said quote, I couldn't find that
we ever caught a spy under Jim. So Angleton, you know,
was the mole hunter for decades within the CIA, and
he never caught a spy. Crazy crazy, He operated quote
a virtual CIA within the CIA, reporting and only to
Doulis himself. Let's see, big alcoholic Angleton was very much
into art and what are their stuff? Was there he said?
He said as part of his testimony before the Church
Committee in the nineteen seventies, quote, it is inconceivable that
his secret intelligence arm of the government has to comply
with all the overt orders of the government. CIA overseers
were a priestly cast that must be allowed to operate
unfettered and above the law. What other stuff was there?
I don't want to like tread on ground from the
previous stream, but he worked on pursuing a CIA partnership
with the mafia with Cold War countries France, West Germany, Turkey,
Taiwan and Israel. He had a special bond with the Israelis.
Speaker 2: And that's probably where you want to go next. But
because next comes with the Kennedy assassination.
Speaker 3: Yeah, so let's see, i'd have to I'd have to
pull up I I listened to the astral stream. I
didn't do too much research into Yeah, that's right.
Speaker 2: Corey Hughes is an animal. He is probably the best
on this. Austin is really really good. But I don't
think anybod who's able to put it together as linearly
as Corey has.
Speaker 3: Yeah, I'll have to. I'll have to go through it
because I didn't. I didn't quite understand the the references
in there to mk Ultra and Oswald, Like I can
understand the idea, like it fits very well into the
picture that you know Oswalt is not only a Patsy,
but perhaps could be a series.
Speaker 2: Of different for something else. Right, he doesn't have to
be involved to be a Patsy, bro, Yeah, No, I
mean I think Oswald belonged was being groomed for something
else by another intelligence agency, probably the Pentagon related.
Speaker 3: Well, the framing is that he would he would infiltrate
the Silviet Union. That was to be his assignment to
get closer within those communist circles. You know, they kind
of made, as I understand it from the stream, they
made up afterwards that he was a Communist and like
that's all bullshit, And almost everything about his life and
his biography is in tribe.
Speaker 2: Yeah, there's there's multiple ones, but it's basically some of
a project that got started very very very young. So
they were creating fake Oswald's when he was in still
finishing grade school for elementary school or sorry, a high school,
I can't remember which.
Speaker 3: And then his mother worked for like the Navy intelligence
or something.
Speaker 2: Yes, Naval intelligence. A lot of the people associated and
adjacent like so if I want to if I am
in a rivalry, right, and I want to, because the
DD did not want Zionism.
Speaker 3: No, and how could you blame him? I mean, Zionism
whacked the first.
Speaker 2: Sectath yep, exactly. So if you're going to again, Oswald's
purpose has nothing. Oswald has no knowledge. You can literally
watch in the video of when basically somebody asked him
about like literally when he's being carried away, you can
see it dawn on his face that he got set up. Right,
somebody knew who Oswald was and picked him as the patsy.
He doesn't have to know he's the patsy, right, So
if I'm going to burn somebody, why would I burn
one of my guys and I can burn one of yours.
Speaker 3: Yeah, that's I'm trying to just find a good section
on it.
Speaker 2: Remember I'm hanging the and this way, if anybody looks
into him, they're gonna bump into your shit, not mine.
Speaker 3: Uh. The So I'm looking through the Talbot book for
the GfK assassination stuff. Problem is is that there's just
so much material on it that it's hard to like
find good quotes.
Speaker 2: We don't have to go into the assassination, but we
should go into how do us exit the CIA, why
who exited him? And what was immediately done after he exited?
And what did Alan Dulles do once he figured out
what had happened.
Speaker 3: Uh sure, yeah, you'd I think you'll probably have to
take over the lead for it because most of the
rest of my research is on the coups in Congo
and Iran and in Guatemalas. So I kind of left
the Kennedy assassination stuff. So if you want to cover it.
Speaker 2: Well we've thoroughly uh So. In in James Jesus Angleton's
tenure right of not catching spies, he did, however, have
a interesting relationship which apparently no one bothered to look into,
with a florist that he would stop in every day
on his way home and talk to for two to
three hours. The FBI knew this, but in some of
the recent documents that have been declassified and released will
be James Jesus Engleton going to the FBI saying, at
the direct request of the Director Dulles, anything that has
to do with Israeli intelligence or Israel whatsoever needs to
come directly to me and only to me. Nobody else
in the CIA. Bring all of the Israel shit to me.
And this is exactly what Alan Dulles wants, I promise.
At the same time as the FBI is noting that
the CIA, fucking guy, he doesn't have many fucking flowers,
doesn't have a garden. But day in day out he
stops by the florist on the way home and chats
for two hours, sometimes three, usually more than one. And
we never find out who owns that florist, not that
it would matter, not that it would be a real person,
not that it would lead anywhere, all right, So we'll
never know who was in that florist that he was
talking to, all right. But what was what was James
Jesus Angleton's relationship with the State of Israel Philo.
Speaker 3: Well as we as we covered in the first dream,
he was extremely connected with the Defense Secretary as well
as the the head of the shin Bet within Israel
I mean, and he was that's where he is.
Speaker 2: The shin Bet the shin.
Speaker 3: Bet is Israel's domestic intelligence service, and they are.
Speaker 2: Both foreign domestic intelligence. That's right, yes, Okay, So basically
the guy is a fucking and an asset of the
Israeli intelligence agencies. All right, So I don't know what
it is that James Jesus Angleton thinks he's rotting in
hell for. But again keep in mind that James Jesus
Angleton does not need to know the intentions of the
Israeli state to be helpful to the Israeli state, just
like Oswald, who put it together literally as the journalist
is like, when did you decide to kill Kennedy? And
you just see the fucking look on this guy's face, like, oh, motherfucker,
I'm being set up. I know what this is. He
was clueless. He had no idea what those reporters wanted.
He had no idea about anything, all right. James Jesus
Angleton didn't need to know that he was helping a
foreign government kill his president. All he needed to know
was that he's helping a foreign government. Probably thought he
was helping a foreign government for whatever reasons they told him,
But basically so just because he is involved in the
Kennedy assassination does not mean he knew what was happening.
He did know what happened afterwards. But then are you
going to run and say anything, No, because you're basically
sworn to secrecy, whether you like it or not. Because
to not be sworn to secrecy is to effectively indict
yourself for treason, and you would be and especially right
after the president got killed, Your ass would be shot.
You wouldn't have a trial, you wouldn't have anything. You
would have an accident or a suicide or something like that. Right,
most cases of treason don't involve a trial or a
tribunal or anything like that. When it comes to intelligent stuff,
that person just dies, however mysteriously or unmysteriously it happens.
And that's what would have happened to Angleton if you
were to have said, like, oh shit, I think that
I shouldn't have. I was giving these people information thinking
it was for this, but turns out it's actually for this,
and I think I did a bad thing. That's never
gonna happen. He's going to have to live with that
every day till day dies, which it sounds like he did.
Unfortunately for us, he didn't die sooner. But what did
what did Allan Dulles do? Because he was pushed out
of the CIA? All right, and like like Filo said,
the man was running an intelligence agency inside the Central
Intelligence Agency, mister mister Engleton, very busy guy. And according
to two of the sources that he referenced, he had
material on Alan Dullas himself the head of the CIA.
So between running an office inside an office and having
material on the current head of the Central Intelligence Agency,
if there's anybody that could have pushed Alan Dulles out
of the agency he created, because there's no way in
fucking hell that he would have decided to leave without
being pushed out. So who pushed him out? I don't know.
Maybe the guy with the secret folder full of shit
on him probably a good place to look. So what
did Allendells do after he got pushed out? During the
Everyone's like, oh well he Allen Dolls was on the
Warren Commission. No shit, right, no shit, he was on
the Warren Commission. That doesn't make him complicit. And you
can be on the Warren Commission because the nation knows
that you're the intelligence guy. So if someone's going to
make something believable, right, or actually because the Warren Commission
what's his name? Two members of the Warren Commission came
out and said that their investigation was deliberately derailed. And
there's parts of the Warren Commission that's still classified. Right,
So these guys just because somebody's on the Warren Commission.
This is the thing about people need to be way
when you look at stuff like this, anything intelligence related,
anything like this, you have to be way more right.
You have to basically take everything that you see and
then you look at it from every single angle. Is
it possible to be on the Warrant Commission and not
be involved in the Kennedy assassination? Yes? It is. What
was Alan Dllis doing well? I believe in the book
what was that book that you mentioned, Devil's Chessboard? I
believe they document Alan Dallis after being pushed out and
immediately after the Kennedy assassination, basically recreating a mini CIA
in his living room full of only people that he trusted,
imagining after just getting pushed out of the Central Intelligence Agency.
That was a very small list of people. But what
were they investigating in Alan Dullis's living room? Each day
all day, probably piecing together what the fuck just happened,
Because if you just got pushed out of the CIA,
and you know enough to know enough that some CIA
people were involved in this, or at least adjacent to it,
you would probably try and get to the bottom of that,
at least if no other reason then to make up
for being ignominiously thrown out of the thing you created
and shamed. But probably for other reasons. I mean literally,
I mean John Foster was a part time Protestant theologian
and Ellen, John Foster's son is a very prominent Catholic
was a very prominent Catholic bishop and imminent theologian. Like
these men took their religious stuff very seriously. So if
somebody just kills the president, you know you're gonna try
and get to the bottom of it, Like you're not
a fucking heathen, you know, it would be a it
would be a call to action for a man like
Alan Dallas. So why didn't anything happen with that, Like,
why did Alan Dellas just just stop? Well at that
point in time, the uh, the man who was having
an affair with the Israeli Burgoon terrorists, right and member
of the stern Gang. I can't remember her name right,
But that guy is now in the fucking White House.
He's the president. The Israeli asset now very very very guilty,
feeling very very very very nervous, probably very very very
very twitchy. James Jesus Angleton, the guy that pushed you
out is now running the CIA. So if the president
is nearest, makes no difference in on it, and the
guy that's run CIA now is nearest, makes no difference
in on it. And you're just an old man without
a job, you know, playing CIA in your living room.
It doesn't matter what you find, because someone's going to
come up to you and have a conversation with you
that says, hey, like you need to just go be
an old man now or you're going to die. And
that's what he did, and he died shortly after anyways,
So I really think it's uh. I really think the
whole CIA killed or was involved in any capacity officially
as in like officially, as in like the organs of
the CIA was involved in the Kennedy assassination needs to
be put to bed. Alan Dulles being an evil man
and involved in some way in the Kennedy assassination needs
to be put to bed. Right the reason, I don't
know if we talked on the first episode about the
Kennedy and Dulles beef, Pilo.
Speaker 3: Kennedy and Dullest beef. Yeah, I mean Dullas hated Kennedy.
Speaker 2: Yeah, Kennedy hated Dulles. But why I had nothing to
do with the Vietnam War. Right, Everything that we have
from Kennedy, both internal White House transcripts, right, recorded phone
calls and official statements of Kennedy's that are now declassified,
he was ramping up Vietnam. Kennedy never wanted to pull
out a fucking Vietnam. That's a made up that's that's
that's made up. Because you would need a reason for
the beef, right, you need to point the finger somewhere else.
Speaker 3: Dull Kennedy.
Speaker 2: Kennedy, uh huh. Let me tell you exactly what he
was naive about. The one thing that after the Cuban
missile crisis nuclear this is actually where why he Kennedy
was as committed. Besides the fact that, besides the fact
that his father, Joe Kennedy, had a run in with
the Focus Group in the UK prior to the outbreak
of World War two all right, and was roundly squashed
and thrown out of his ambassadorial position by FDR because
Joe Kennedy was screaming like, hey, why aren't the British
doing peace? Why are they taking his offer? Like we're
going to start another world war, We're going to do
it all over again, And the focus group was like, yeah, guy,
that's the fucking point. And turns out Joe Kennedy found
out that FDR was already in on it. They're about it.
So Joe Kennedy, like in his last years, had a
tremendous amount of resentment towards, particularly desion his outfit in
the United Kingdom. Right, the focus group that basically, I
mean he would actually send letters back and communications back
saying that they were trying to that he thinks that
they were trying to poison him. At one time, he
actually gets deathly ill and almost dies. Right he comes
home to America shortly after he legitimately thought they were
trying to kill him. Because Joe Kennedy was not on
team let's go World War two. He was on team
let's not do World War two. So Jack Kennedy had
no real love for the Zionist cause to begin with,
but he's rather indifferent about it until the nuke stuff happened.
Like I mean, Jack and Robert Kennedy like literally took
their kids to mass on Sunday I at the height
of the Cuban missile crisis. I made sure every single
one of their kids got communion. And funny enough, Khrushchev's
son will tell you that his dad did the exact
same thing. Because both world leaders were thinking, there's a fucking,
very very very high probability that we're going to go
like everything is, we're all going to go to hell
like now nuclear hell fire tomorrow. And after that pass,
Jack became very very serious in his nuclear anti proliferation.
Like you know, as I imagine, taking your kids to
what you think was going to be their final communion
will probably be a formative experience in a father's life.
I don't know. I think so, because Jack Kennedy was
literally going to the Soviet Union his friend mister Khrushchev
and saying, like, we need to do total nuclear disarmament.
Khrushchev at this point in time now getting significant pushback
from the Soviet defense establishment. Khrushchev was on board, but
Khrushchef couldn't. Well that's put this like, the Soviet military
apparatus at this point in time is starting to have
a lot more power than mister Krushchef, and Khrushchev was
not able to move the ball down the court. And
I think you can look in the conversation that what
you call it the telex stuff, I can't remember. It's
either like the transcribed phone calls from the recorders in
the White House or the telex I can't remember which whatever.
They're going back and forth and Kennedy, Jack Kennedy's like, hey,
so how about we just start disarming first, and that
way you'll know that we're serious about it. And that
way you can go back to the military guys and say, look,
there's the Americans are serious about it. And Alan Dulles
and the Joint chiefs of Staff found out about this,
and they are not naive. They're like, are you out
of your fucking mind? Like you're you're talking about like
you're going to try and you know you're going to
destroy some of our missile in hopes that the Soviets
do the same. Like I'm sorry, this is where the
beef came between the two had nothing to do with
the Bay of Pigs, the whole Bay of Pigs conversation.
As Corey Hughes documents extensively, the reason the Bay of
Pigs failed had nothing to do with the CIA, nothing
to do with John F. Kennedy, had everything to do
with those arms never fucking making it to Cuba in
the goddamn first place. Where did they go. The arms
that were supposed to go to the people in the
Bay that would be doing the Bay of Pigs never
made it there because with the help of James Jesus Angleton,
they were going through an export import business in Virginia
which I canot remember the name of it, but again
Corey Hughes documents extensively, and being shipped to Israel. Those
guns were going to Israel, and unfortunately none of them
ever made it to Cuba. And that's why the Bay
of Pigs failed, because every fucking bullet and every gun
ended up in the Levant and not on the shores
of Cuba, which is where they were really sorely needed.
So it wasn't the Bay of Pigs either, It was
the nukes. Kennedy, in his naive, little lefty brain because
only wrong. If Kennedy didn't get his fucking top blown off,
every single one of us would have hated him as
much as we hate FDR. The only reason that we
have any nice things to say about him is frankly
because our OP, you know, killed him, and be we,
at least me, I love America enough to where no
nobody gets to fucking kill the president, no matter how
fucking left he is, sure as how not some pissant
state in them at least, but we would have hated
our JFK like he would have been like, we would
have looked at him like a disaster. He was a
naive leftist, like he literally thought that, well, I just
think I think we could just make nukes go away.
Maybe we can uninvent them, and the Soviets are going
to do it with us totally, this is actually gonna happen.
And someone like Alan Dulles and someone like the guys
in the Joint chiefs of Staff would have thought that
this man is absolutely insane. And that's exactly what they thought,
and they sabotaged him every fucking chance that they got,
and they did sabotage him several times, some of them
leading to rather embarrassing moments. And that's why Jack Ken
he says, I'm going to break the CIA into a
million pieces, because shortly before then they just made him
look like a fucking retard in front of the Soviets
while he's trying to do this crazy idea of his
that like, we're just gonna wave the magic wand and
the Communists are going to make all the nukes go away,
and we're going to make all of ours go away.
So the whole fucking that's that's the dullest JFK beef
has nothing to do with Vietnam, has nothing to do
with the Bay of Pigs. The Bay of Pigs has
everything to do with somebody else, and it had everything
to do with nukes, which is the same reason JFK
was losing his fucking mind at was. It's monoc and Began.
I always get I always get them confused. Is that
the one or is it Ben Gury and Ben Gury.
Speaker 3: In right well Minock and Began was a member of
the Year Gun and Prime Minister in the late seventies, and.
Speaker 2: Who is the one in the sixties when who is
the one that the Kennedy letters or I think they're
called like the Israel the Israel letter or the Kennedy
letters or whatever. The basically the telex fight that he
was having with the Israeli Prime minister at the time
about the nuclear sites in Demono, when he said, yeah,
we know what you did.
Speaker 3: If if you give me a year, I could tell
you a year. Yeah, like when the phone call happened.
Speaker 2: Sorry, oh no, no, like this would be Oh shoot, Pete.
Do you know when the Kennedy assassination took place. I
can't believe I'm fucking blanking on this. I thought you.
Speaker 1: Literally it was.
Speaker 2: It was.
Speaker 1: It was in sixty three, but it wasn't Bengurion.
Speaker 2: At the time. Yes. So anybody that can go search
the what is it the what's the office, what's the place,
what's the It's not the Library of Congress. Who's the
people that keep the presidential records?
Speaker 1: The Office of the Historian one of the Yeah, the
Office of the Historian, Yeah, holds letters. They have the
uh it's number three wait letter for Prime Minister ben
gurians a President Kennedy June twenty fourth, nineteen sixty two.
Speaker 2: Yeah, they have a whole bunch of them. This letter
war went back and forth and back and forth, and
anybody that reads those letters, if you think that these
two men, you know, I would say that as much
as I think jfk hated him more than Donald Trump
hates Benjamin at Yahoo, and that's quite a lot. I
don't think there was a relationship, a diplomatic relationship that
John F. Kennedy had with any other world leader that
was as hostile as it was with the Prime Minister
of Israel at the time because of nukes. And that's
also why I think, I don't know if Filo would
you say, like, that's the fine reason why that he
got assassinated by them.
Speaker 3: Well, I mean it's interesting because the whole talk of
nukes and the president, you know, Angleton being interviewed in
nineteen seventy five in the church community, he's he's bringing
up Israel, He's bringing up nuclear weapons. I mean, even
you know, at that point thirteen years later, it was
still like the highlight of the congressional investigation into him.
So I think there's there's very good supporting evidence of that.
And also you have to track like the global trajectory
of the acquisition of nukes. It's been it's been a
hot minute since I've researched this, but you know, first
off it's the United States and then later the Soviet Union,
I mean leaked through. I think a British COMMI by
a scientist was how it got to the It was
nineteen forty nine.
Speaker 2: I know the person was it the Rose was it
the Rosenbergs, No, it doesn't matter, or they were the
person that found or they were the person that was
running the cell that this person that was working at
Los Alamos operated out.
Speaker 3: Of something like that. But I do know that there's
a lot of other atomic stuff going through them. But
then anyway, I think it's it's Britain, in it's France,
and then UH Israel one one one increase one interesting Yeah.
One interesting thing from the nineteen seventy five interview is
that Angleton says that right around the Suez Crisis, he's
having talks with UH. I can have to pull up
the damn source he's he's having talks on with like
scientists UH that are that are working on the development
of a nuclear material within Israel. Because there's like a
dynamic of he's getting intelligence about the Soviet Union from
the Israelis, and then there's there's other new clear related
information that passes through Israel's kind of a conduit. So
a lot of internal speeches within the Soviet Union in
the mid fifties are going through Israel. He's talking about.
Speaker 2: Yeah, because the telegenis apparatus was literally you know, these
were these were former coworkers, right. Granted the Soviet Union
would later turn on Israel.
Speaker 3: Oh totally. And Israel also was playing both sides, like
in Israel, I learned this that like that was not
was not mint right.
Speaker 2: Just type in now today, Just type in Pentagon or
US military. Pick an explicitive word that's similar to angry
whatever Israel. Or type in just Israel cells US military blank,
and then hit enter.
Speaker 3: And less none than that is Israel.
Speaker 2: Because this is the China. This is how the Chinese
got ahold of the F twenty two. Right. The only
people we ever get like the F thirty five is
the fucking is the down syndrome, you know, baby, that
came after the F twenty two. Any fighter pilot that
you know has any experience will tell you that the
F twenty two is is the real deal. The F
thirty five is a nightmare and a joke.
Speaker 3: Did you know that the you'd like this one. The
F thirty five has an I variant within Israel where
they they have their own aircraft where they fitted out
with all kinds of Israeli developed daviy onyx and then
send them back.
Speaker 2: But do you know why they're not allowed to have
the F twenty two anymore?
Speaker 3: Probably because they sold every part of it to China,
I would guess, yeah, to China.
Speaker 2: Yeah, so even Popular Mechanics talks about it. Popular Mechanics
got invited to Beijing to witness this amazing fifth generation
fighter that the Chinese had built. And what amazed Popular
Mechanics the most was this plane, this plane's avionics system.
It wasn't the fact that it looks identical to the
F twenty two, literally identical. It was that the avionics
equipment was still in English. We only gave I think
we only gave one or two, and I know we
took one back, so I don't know where the other
one went. And I don't know what Israel got in return,
but I imagine quite a fucking lot.
Speaker 3: Yeah, I mean there's a good rabbit hole is the
Israeli weapons industry and China and no one, no one,
knows about this, but it's openly discussed over there like
that that was touted as a as a big big fact.
Was like the you know like that because that was
a big deal at the time for the three years
that I was there was you know, Israel receives this
F thirty five and ostensibly DoD tasks them to develop
all the avionics within their own F thirty five ivary
and that they're going to keep, but then send some
of their tech back to the United States to help,
you know, further develop this technology that's going on within there.
But you know, it's.
Speaker 2: A fucking pox on both our houses. Sorry, China pretty much.
Speaker 3: There's also like yeah, there's a lot of a lot
of work within China the Israel.
Speaker 2: Soon and so think about this, think about you would
probably know this. Do you remember what was it called?
I can't remember what the gate was. It happened shortly
after the or shortly before the Lewinsky scandal.
Speaker 1: It's the bombing of the as This would be after
the bombing of the aspirin factory in uh Africa.
Speaker 2: I can't remember. I think I think no, I was
talking about like the a K for the Chinese guns
that were being that they got caught importing into the
United States and just like a big deal, like there
was like some millet, there was some Chinese ship. It
had to do with that guy that the guy that
was running it, uh at the time, the guy that
was deeply involved in it. Was the same guy that
killed himself by tying himself to a tree and then
shooting himself in the shot in the chest with a
shotgun twice.
Speaker 1: I don't remember.
Speaker 2: It's like the it's like the most famous Clinton suicide here,
hold on, uh Clinton. Yeah, Like there's just too much
shit in my brain. Nineteen ninety six campaign finance controversy. Yeah,
campaign China Gate. It's called I'm so fucking dumb. God
damn it. Oh man, that's hilarious.
Speaker 3: I have a quick quick side note on that earlier point.
I'm looking at the nineteen seventy five Church thing. Angleton says, quote,
you know, I'm talking about in terms of Israel, talking
about the signal intelligence. Most of the information that we
gained from the surfaced air missiles which had a direct
bearing on you using B fifty twos in Vietnam, we
gained through Israel. We could read a whole lot of
the computerizing and so on of those SAMs. And therefore
we were prepared to give highly sophisticated equipment to Israel
to work against the Russian business in order to transfer
the knowledge to Vietnam. And so this goes back, you know,
sixty years of a kind of two way five way
street or whatever.
Speaker 2: I wouldn't even say it's a five way street. That
sounds like somebody's gassing up a bunch of senators that
don't know any better.
Speaker 3: Maybe yeah, it's he's you know that the senators.
Speaker 2: Well, here, let me tell you why Israel's is so important.
You know, I'm sure I would love to hear what
the senator's question that prompted that was.
Speaker 3: Yeah, let me mind it for you. Are you saying,
in effect then, that any questions he raised with you
about the transfer of visual material or deeper technology or
manpower for that matter, to the Israeli government was couched
in c who is who?
Speaker 2: Who is who?
Speaker 3: Senator?
Speaker 2: No, isn't like you said that any any intelligence or
any anything. Here. Read that first sentence.
Speaker 3: Again, Senator Tower to mister Engleton, are you saying an
effect then that any questions he raised with you about
the transfer of visual material.
Speaker 2: Who is the he?
Speaker 3: Uh that is mister Schwartz.
Speaker 2: I bet it's still US.
Speaker 3: Yeah, there's a there's an individual named mister Schwartz. This
is talking about Israeli government technical assistance.
Speaker 1: Schwartz. Schwartz's Irish, irishsh.
Speaker 2: I wonder if he's a flower shop you patron.
Speaker 3: Yeah, did you confirm to sol a different guy during
the late fifties, subsequent to the sUAS War, that the
CIA made available to the Israeli government technical assistance and
the availability of one or more distinguished nuclear scientists or
physicists for the purpose of developing atomic weapons. Mister Angleton,
that is completely false, but we know it's true.
Speaker 2: Oh so it wasn't It wasn't. I guess they couldn't,
even after they stole the uranium and stole the By
the way, Benjamin and Yahoo everybody makes his first appearance,
his first time to the US was not, unfortunately, to
testify as a Iranian nuclear weapons expert like he does
in his role of Prime Minister every ten minutes, and
not his appearance on the fouls on the Florid Congress
as a terrorism expert, as he did shortly after nine
to eleven and also a terrorism expert before he was
even Prime minister. He was the terrorism expert after WTC
the first time in ninety three, but his first his
first escapades in America had nothing to do with lying
to our congress people, which is his seemingly his career now.
It was stealing critron triggers, which are the triggers for
nuclear weapons in the naval facilities in California. At the
same time, his co ethno religiousists, I would say co nicks,
but depending on who you ask or when you ask,
it's a religion, so cover on my basis, while they
were stealing nuclear material out of the naval facility in
New mech Pennsylvania. So between the two you got both
half of both halves of a nuclear bomb. And it
was actually the mob the guys like my Orlanski, that
made sure that nuclear material made it out of the
United States. I mean, when you find out how they
were shipping it, I'm sure a whole bunch of random,
nice people got radiation poisoning mysteriously. It's really fucking gross.
Don't expect the mobsters to take a lot of precautions.
But anyways, do you have a challenge what you're telling
me is that even with those two things, they still
couldn't get it to work. And James Jesus Angleton had
to make sure that they got nuclear experts too. So
this is after JFK. This is after So why would
the Israeli nuclear program and James Jesus Angleton and the
Suez crisis be relevant at all to the Warrant Commission
unless nuclear weapons? The Israeli nuclear weapons program was not very, very,
very important to the Kennedy assassination. And I think you
will get the impression when you read those those letters
back and forth between Ben Gurion and JFK, you come
away with an idea that they already the Israelis already
planned are they already knew who they were planning on
using these weapons against, And I think that was the Egyptians.
They were going to nuclear first strike them. Instead they
did a surprise attack like hey, we're not at war,
Oh surprise, you're at war with us today with fighter jets.
That's the only reason that Israel didn't get wiped off
the face of the earth by the Egyptian army, which
it actually still very well made, by the way, was
because the Israelis, without declaring war or really any hostilities
or any real intent whatsoever, decided to just send literally
every fighter aircraft they had and surprise the Egyptians and
shoot all of their planes while they were still, you know,
not at war, hanging out on the ground. I don't
think that was the because they didn't know that the
Egyptian air defenses weren't going to be activated the way
they were. Right, the Israelis had to assume that they
would have lost a tremendous amount more fighter aircraft, and
the Israelis had to assume that they wouldn't have been
as successful as they were at nailing those fighter craft
on the ground. Right. I bet you Israel was more
surprised than anyone that they got that many Egyptian fighter craft, uh,
you know, caught them sleeping on the ground. Well, granted,
it's not really the Egyptian's fault if you don't know
that you're at war. In your next if you think
of Canada anyways, right, because I mean being on nuclear
first striking Yeah wait wait wait wait wait wait wait
wait wait wait wait wait? Who was I mean? Actually, Pete,
I believe you have at least two episodes on this.
Who was Egypt's ally?
Speaker 1: Oh well, I mean that's easy, the big guest Union.
Speaker 2: Yes, it was the Soviet Union's largest ally in the region,
and I believe they shouldn't be too hard to find.
I believe at least one instance that the premiere of
the Soviet Socialist Republics mister Khrushchev or either Khrushcheff work.
Actually Khrushchev was ousted shortly after JFK, but is so
it maybe either Khrushchev or the guy that followed him
that any attack on Egypt would be viewed by the
Soviet Union as an attack on the Soviet Union. The
Soviet Union wasn't retarded. They knew how important Suez was.
So basically, what Isra was trying to do would start
World War three with nukes, and they were perfectly okay
with that if it meant greater Israel. The only reason
I go off on that tangent, dear listener, is because
it is a very useful lens to apply to the
Middle East today. So if Israel was perfectly okay, granted
they thought the US was going to get involved. They
thought if the US got involved, that the Soviet nukes
would fly at the US and not at their little
tiny state in the Middle East. We would be the
bullet magnets. But with nukes, they were perfectly okay starting
nuclear war to get greater Israel because this point in time,
the Soviet Union was very, very very clear that anybody
that attacked Egypt would be at war with the Soviet Union. Basically,
JFK was literally looking at Cuban Missile Crisis two point zero.
Nobody just we just didn't know it yet. So if
Israel's willing to literally light the world on fire using
nuclear health fire to satiate their territorial expansion desires, everybody
needs to be well aware that they would be They
would be more than willing to do it again. So
there really is no geopolitical fallout that these people are
not willing to risk, whether it's to them or whether
it's to us, or to really to anybody. Right, there's
no nukes in the Middle East now except for theirs.
But when the Soviets would have fired nukes at them,
they were still willing to do it. So really there's
really nothing they're not willing to do now, considering they're
the one with all the nukes in the region except
for Turkey. So I think that's actually apparently we're right
back where we fucking started.
Speaker 3: In addition to spending the last you know, thirty maybe
longer years trying to destroy Ran yep. And that's still
like even like last week, the the D and I
put out the twenty twenty five Threat Landscape and that
you know, number one threat outside of you know, China
Rush or whatever is you're on.
Speaker 1: You know it.
Speaker 3: It's it's just the same thing every single year.
Speaker 2: It's that's right. Don't pay too much attention to don't
pay attention to to D and I that much. You're
basically hearing the CIA and the CIA is nearest, makes
no difference, fully fully zogged. Right, pay attention to what
comes out of the Defense Department, Defense Department prior to
October seventh, and there is ample policy documents from many many,
many army and navy and stuff war colleges to start
pulling troops out of the Middle East. And what do
you know, You can judge how serious they were about
it by the level of covetching against it. So if
the Pentagon wasn't serious, everybody should go to their search engine,
do go to settings and go to select time and
scroll the clock back before October seventh, and type in
Pentagon pulling out of the Middle East, or Pentagon plants
to pull out of the Middle East, whatever, and you
will have to go through three or four pages of
Foreign Policy Magazine, The Atlantic Counts on Foreign Relations, Chatham,
howse this fucking place, this other fucking place, doesn't matter.
Just every single one, all the way on the line
about how it will be an absolute disaster if the
Pentagon pulls out of the Middle East. Well, let's just
say the Pentagon never said that. Hypothetically, let's just do
the counterfactual and say, like, the Pentagon wasn't planning on
doing that, Then why the fuck are you guys screaming
about it so loudly? Why are you screaming about how
this thing will be a disaster that no one's talking
about doing and no one's serious about doing. Oh, that's
because they are serious about doing it, and we're all right.
Pentagon has done three separate war games, two of which
were with the IDF about joint attacks and not just
fighters and not just you know, missiles. But actually, I
think one of them is called the war game is
called like Archangel or something basically something to do with
the archangel Michael. I can't remember which right, and the
US and Israel lose and they lose within three weeks,
and the Pentagon doesn't like to lose. Same reason why.
And this is why it's important to think about the
two intelligence apparatuses, one military and the other one's civilian right,
because like Filo said, the head of the CIA is
the third most powerful person in government. The military number
two is well, the military isn't in government. The military
is its own thing. The military doesn't have elections, So
people aren't appointed unless you think the people that the
president appoints the changes every four years, unless you think
those people actually run shit. And I'd be like telling
me Joe Biden ran shit, he didn't, or who is
it that black guy, the guy that the guy that, yeah,
the guy had disappeared for literally eight months, and not
only did his secretary not know or his deputy not know,
but his deputy didn't care, and really nobody else cared.
So if the person that the that the president appoints
to oversee the Pentagon can fuck off and literally disappear
in like a private cancer clinic for eight months and
nobody gives a shit or notices. How much do you
think that that position actually controls shit at the Pentagon?
Not very much. So. The war in Ukraine is a
perfect example of this. It is clear any body that
was paying attention, it looked like there was the Russians
versus the Ukrainians, and there was our government versus itself. Right,
one half of the government was like, We're going to
go to a war in Ukraine against Russia tomorrow. Right.
In fact, actually President Biden said in Poland, hey, you
boys talking to American troops this time next year, and
it was actually close to the end of the year,
or he said, he just said next year. Right, this
will be like two or three months at the end
of the year next year, you guys are going to
be fighting in Ukraine. Right, State departments like, yeah, very
next day. Somebody from the Joint chiefs of Staff. I mean,
how many public media press conferences have you heard from
the Joint chiefs of Staff before? Personally, that was the
first one I've ever fucking heard of. But Joint chiefs
of Staff want staff pres conference and Georgie of Staff
says everything that guy just said is bullshit. That's a
very strange thing to say about the commander in chief.
And the very next day after that, the president's fucking
melanated mouthpiece comes out and says, Yeah, everything the the
President said the other day, sorry about that guy is bullshit.
I've never seen that ever before in my life. So yeah,
Da sorry is zogged. Cia, Sorry is zogged. But the
thing we keep in mind is that everybody in the
Biden administration, all of the appoint like the cabinet positions,
the people that actually ran the government, seventy percent of
them hold dual citizenship with the nation in the Middle East,
and really really really really like their ethnic homeland of Ukraine,
and really really really wanted to go to war in Ukraine.
And so if the president is a vegetable and the
cabinet actually runs the government and the intelligence agency wants
to go to war in Ukraine, and all of the
people that run the Biden government, all of the important
cabinet officials, from the fucking head of the secretary or
the Treasury secretary, it says, oh, yeah, I know, we
have this hyperinflation problem, boys and girls, but we still
have money to go to war in Ukraine. Anthony Blincoln,
all the way down the line. So if all of
Zog says that we're going to go to war in Ukraine,
but yet somehow we're not at war in Ukraine, how
is no one talking about that. All of the people
that hold all the positions of power, apparently, if these
are the positions of power, they want to go to
war in Ukraine, but we're not in war in Ukraine.
And all those same fucking people want to go to
war against Iran, and we're not at war with Iran.
So there is obviously right, Like, how do you know
a black hole is somewhere? You can't actually see the
black hole. You can only figure out the black holes
there by watching the effect of its gravity on the
things around it. There's something else there, and it's not
the CIA, because CIA they really want war in Ukraine.
So I think, I think, I mean, it's a weird
way to end it out. But unfortunately that other place,
I think the Office of Naval Intelligence viewed my guess,
considering they pre date the CIA by I don't know
eighty years, that'd probably be where I look, and I
think that's where you see the kind of war within
our government that doesn't seem to have eased up any
that was a ridiculous tangent.
Speaker 1: Sorry, guys, I mean I had let's do this filous.
How do you want to wrap this up? I'll give
you the floor, Stormy. You can insurject any way you want.
Speaker 3: I figure, I figure there's two ways. The first is,
I mean, I'd love to get kind of the current
Stormy's current opinion on the Trump administration and you know,
foreign policy generally, alternatively we didn't touch Guatemala and United
Free Company, but that might be too big of a
subject to wrap things. I would just it would just be.
Speaker 1: That that should actually be separate, because that's not only
the CIA.
Speaker 3: Right, that's Berne and all the other stuff. That would
be my preference would be, you know, I can understand
the Biden administration their stance on foreign intervention, the five
hundred ish dual citizens or ethnic representations, but you know,
they're on the one hand, seven languages, but go on
seven hundred. On the one hand, the language from the
administration is changing on Ukraine, but on the other the Iran,
the pro Israel element of it. I mean, I does
that does that shape towards like a renewed effort on
that intervention? Or is that just the same policy line
that the right's been trotting out for thirty years? You
know what will that eventually?
Speaker 2: The way I see it is that in Ukraine, what
Trump Donald Trump wants first right now is Ukraine? Right?
You want Ukraine to end? What vers does Donald Trump
have over Vladimir Putin in Ukraine? The answer is none. Literally,
Putin holds all the fucking cards. We can't escalate, we
can't ratchet, We literally can't do fuck all to influence
him into basically at least making it look like we
could both chalk up a win. You know, when you
want to, like if you want things tonight not escalate, like, hey,
what do you need to so you can go home
to your people and say that this was a win,
and this is what we need to go home to
our people to not get fucking just excoriated. He has
no leverage over Putin at all, but he really needs
this to stop because if he doesn't, I mean, I
know I've talked to this with, talked about this with Pete,
and I know Fi the way I've talked to this with,
talked about this with you privately. The European nations like
will go do the stupid thing, because it's either they
go do the stupid thing or they have a lot
of explaining to do at home when their government defaults
on all thats debt and goes bankrupt or whatever.
Speaker 3: Yeah, the UK and France issue in all kinds of
statements about they're gonna launch a military and everything.
Speaker 2: Yeah, crazy bro Germany just sent troops for the very
first time outside of German border since since Operation Barbarossa.
Speaker 3: And what happens when they get killed? You know?
Speaker 2: Or do they put them? They put them on the
Russian border?
Speaker 3: Mm hmm.
Speaker 2: The new guy, the new chancellor to replace Schultz, is
even more fucking insane, like actually an insane person. I
would say that the Europeans have gotten even more insane
with escalation.
Speaker 1: Dude, I don't know what. I don't know what fucking
I don't know what demon is causing this. But that's
all I've been talking about lately with you know, in
my private in my private chats with people, is there's
a demon that has control over millions of people right
now in Europe yep, yep, and they're they're bringing it
down upon themselves. And yeah, it's like some of the
stuff that we've talked about privately. It's uh, it's going
to be hell.
Speaker 3: I mean, it's obvious, But there is no strategic reason
to send any Western European military into Ukraine. There there
is just not any kind of rational or political or
even economic reason. I would argue to justify.
Speaker 2: It if you're worried about staying in power, because how
does it? How does it collapse? Happen? How does it real?
Quick me, I don't want to dodge your question. On Iran,
they have I ran in Russia have a mutual defense pack,
did they not?
Speaker 3: Yeah? They do, and they also have a lot of
natural gas ties, if I recall correctly.
Speaker 2: Yes. So, by leaning on Iran, mister Trump has found
a level in which he can exert some pushback against
mister Vladimir Putin. He can't escalate in Ukraine, he can't
posture in Ukraine, but he damnsure can do it in Iran.
And the Russians know that a large portion of the Congress, right,
the State of Israel and all of their far reaching tentacles,
very very very much want Donald Trump to go to
war with Iran. So if Donald Trump threatens to go
to war with Iran, that is a very credible threat.
So now the man that has no leverage all of
a sudden found some. So I don't know if that's
actually what he's doing, But all the John Meersheimer's, all
the fucking David Sachs, all these other fucking assholes will
tell you all day about how Donald Trump has absolutely
no leverage against Russia and that how they just need
to do exactly as Russia says and just fuck off
and don't be wrong. I think we should fuck off
and we shouldn't have been there in the first place.
But to pretend to be like some geopolitical analysts, you know,
going on the DURAN and do whatever fucking song and
dance you do. David Sacks, You're supposed to be a
smart man. And if some half retarded and non can
figure out what a mutual defense pact means, right since
you fucking assholes have been screaming about mutual defense packs
in NATO and Article five for forever, like this shouldn't
be rocket science. So I don't know if that's what
Donald Trump's doing, But if the man would be searching
for levers to exert on Vladimir Putin in some way
shape or form. None of those levers exist in Ukraine,
but they do, however, exist in Iran.
Speaker 3: I also want to add to that point.
Speaker 2: Something bad has happened in Europe and I don't like it,
and capital markets wise, Martin Armstrong's never wrong, I'll put
it that way. I want to add predicting Thus, for
years down.
Speaker 3: To the day, there's no more economic levers. I think
that Trump can pull as regards like sanctions on Russia,
like every I mean, like I mean, for all the
talk of like soft power, it does. It does reach
a limit because soft power is basically sanctions, and sanctions
are basically done. There's there's not there's no one else
to sanction. There's no more institutions or organizations or energy
resources that like it's.
Speaker 2: And we couldn't move enough troops to fucking Europe to
scare Russia fast enough.
Speaker 3: List we put a second had enough.
Speaker 2: Forces and being though in the Middle East.
Speaker 3: Which explains the second aircraft carry in the Middle least
they put in.
Speaker 2: Yeah, I thinking, oh my god, Trump sent three aircraft
carriers to that means war. They ran like nigga, do
you not remember there were fucking three aircraft carriers shooting
at the Houthis like two months before Donald Trump got elected.
They leave because they ran out of AMMO, and they
come back, and this is now some indicator like do
we just forget the three aircraft carriers were already there
shooting at the Houthis and then they leave and now
they come back, and this this is the signal that
he meets like, I mean, come on, it's like the
pants wedding is ridiculous. Like those fucking aircraft carriers already there,
they just fucking ran out of bullets.
Speaker 3: And the air operations have been ongoing against the Hoothies
for years as well without resolution.
Speaker 2: Pete, how many times have you heard of Scott Horton
freaking out about what the US is doing in Yemen
on behalf of the southeast?
Speaker 1: Uh? I mean at least since twenty fifteen, like every week, yep.
Speaker 2: And who do we really need onside right now? This
pretend Israel doesn't exist? Russia's God do we need on side?
We need? Russia's got twenty percent of global oil supply
and supply. Who do we need onside right now?
Speaker 3: Is?
Speaker 2: Yeah, I don't know if this is what's happening, but
well there's a very close. We've been doing this shit
already for forever.
Speaker 3: And during Trump's first administration, there was a very close
tie between the Saudis and the Trump's I mean, it's
just it's you know, all kinds of stuff. There was
a lot of then the key things to watch in
that relationship were not just like these diplomatic measures, like
the US was making appearances in all these different economic
forums that were being held in Saudi Arabia, and I
It's been a long time because this was you know,
Trump's first term. But you know, if I re call
that kind of relationship, and didn't you mention at one point,
Stormy that like that's where most of Trump's money comes
from is the Saudis.
Speaker 2: Uh Saudis, Russians and the US people. It's so Trump now,
it's it's it's a combination. But to Pete's point, back
in the day, it was the Saudi like basically who
helped Donald Trump the entrepreneur. It was the Saudis and
the Russians. Oh shit, fuck Pete, remember when I told
you that the the Egyptians moved all those tanks to
the Israeli border. Yes, I wonder if Russia were to
have like I wonder if Russia has a lot of
ties inside the Egyptian military. Still, well, you.
Speaker 1: Got that from Martin Armstrong, right, Martin Armstrong. I think
I was listening to the same show when he was
talking about that, uh.
Speaker 2: The Egypt thing. The young person i've I've heard about
the tanks is McGregor. Okay, but that I went and
checked it out in Israeli papers and guess what. Guess
what fucking tanks they are. They're like two, they're like
something like I think it was like either fifteen hundred
or two thousand and fifty thousand supporting troops got moved
to the Israeli border. But they're M one Abrams tanks.
Egypt's got unbeknownst to me, I didn't fucking know, but
they've got like several, like you know, more than a thousand,
less than like eight thousand M one Abrams tanks. Apparently
Egypt's been getting a lot of aid, and some of
it it likes to receive in tanks, and the other
likes to receive in dollars to give Russia for green
So as CC has been starving his people, he's damned
sure been stocking up on tanks. Anyways, I know we
were supposed to wrap this up, but I think we
just I think I just took us further downfield. I
would be interested, though, in hearing you and Filo tie
the Breneese thing together into United Fruit, because that is
a rabbit hole I have not gone down.
Speaker 1: Yeah, we can. You and I can do that one
on our own.
Speaker 2: I'm happy to join, but I'm gonna give me.
Speaker 3: The rundown if you have time.
Speaker 1: Well, yeah, I mean we're still probably gonna want to
do it. I mean two minutes is nothing.
Speaker 2: No, especially if Edward fucking Brene is involved.
Speaker 3: Yep, that's truth.
Speaker 2: I'd say this is probably more dangerous now than it
ever was at the height of Russia Ukraine under Biden.
I'd probably say this is we're This is probably the
most dangerous it's.
Speaker 3: Been and we haven't even touched like the the tariff
negotiations and the all that other stuff.
Speaker 2: Yeah. I don't think the Russia China thing is actually
as strong as everyone thinks of this.
Speaker 3: They've always been like allies of a geographic convenience.
Speaker 1: Yeah, yeah, how's the China. How's the China thing going
to happen? Though? China? You know, basically says that anything
that goes into Taiwan has to come through China first.
US says that's unacceptable. Who knows what the hell happens
from there?
Speaker 2: That's a very I mean, yeah, So this is actually
why I think you see the Trump administration not only
not buckling when the stock market was freaking out, but
barely saying words like Scott bessn't uh, that's Scott or
Stephen Beston. I always confused it to Scott Scott Scott
So Scott besnt ran out on Tucker first, kind of
like because if you think like that that Tucker episode
that you sent me with him, all right, you sent
me that on the day that the market started tanking,
all right, But there's no way that they recorded that
on the day that the market started tanking and got
it out in like three hours, because the market was
tanking right from the fucking open. So unless you know
they were recording it at four in the morning and
edited it or whatever, like, no, that was recorded the
day before, right. But ever since then, there's been very
little communication out of the Trump administration about any of
the shit that's happened. And in the interim, has anybody
been watched. I've seen a ton of news articles about,
oh my god, China is tank is dumping US treasuries
sixty billion in treasuries. First off, China does that shit
every quarter. It's not a big deal. It's roughly the
same number that it's always been doing it every quarter.
And the bigger news is that Europe is actually the
one gobbling them up. In fact, like god, gobbling up,
trying to gobble up eighty billion when there's only sixty
billion being sold, right, So like that's that's not the
big news. The big news is the fucking Renman b
Jesus Christ. Like I haven't seen it like really reported anywhere,
but like unless you're watching it on the tick, like
unless you're watching like the Bloomberg feed or like the chart,
China's currency's falling off a fucking cliff, like really really, really,
really crazy.
Speaker 1: So I wonder if are you talking about the Are
you talking about the one?
Speaker 2: Yeah?
Speaker 1: I think it started coming back today.
Speaker 2: Oh did it?
Speaker 1: Yeah, I think it started coming back today.
Speaker 3: I'm seeing that there was a huge drop on the thirteenth.
Speaker 2: Yeah, you're watching that, you're watching this the fucking Chinese currency.
They have two currencies, yep. The one is the external
one that they used to trade with other countries. And
I think the Redman B is the internal one. And
my friend like Redman B. There we go.
Speaker 1: Yeah, another wand right now the wand since the sense
of clothes of our markets dropping is dropping hard.
Speaker 2: Yeah, I think I think you might be right, Pete,
but I think maybe we may be firing the first shots.
Speaker 3: Forgive my ignorance of a trade war between the US
and China, Like.
Speaker 1: No, let's.
Speaker 2: I think it's the currency war.
Speaker 1: Man.
Speaker 2: We're trying to destabilize them. You don't fuck with the
internal currency unless you're trying to destabilize the nation itself.
Mm hmm, right, because what he has been acting fucking insane.
Speaker 1: But think about it.
Speaker 2: He's fired all the military brass and replaced them like
in the last three or four months. It barely got
reported on, but he has been acting generals and replacing
them like crazy. Oh yeah shit, yeah, the Redmen B.
The dollar gained on the Redmen B. What is this?
Speaker 1: What is that? That's the internal the internal currency?
Speaker 2: Yeah, yeah, I think so. I can't remember where Yeah,
the CNY, I can't remember which one it is. But
is this right? Is that really does that really? Say? Yeah, okay,
so it's a couple points, and they keep in mind everyone,
a couple percentage points doesn't sound like a big deal
in currency. But the reason that four X traders are
always blowing up is because four X moves so little
that they have to trade with one hundred and a
thousand times leverage to make any money at all. So
these guys are trading, you know, fractions, a fraction of
a percent, which generally would be absolutely worthless unless you
leverage yourself a thousand acts. So like a currency moving three,
four or five percent would be like a stock moving
like fifty eighty percent in a day. It would be huge.
Speaker 1: Yeah, because times they collapse really fast. If you look
at the five day chart on the lawn, the offshore
lawn has recovered, but the uh, the internal is not
doing well at all, and they're both at fourteen cents
to the US dollar.
Speaker 3: The offshore room and be recorded an all time low
on Wednesday, slightly strengthened. The onshore is its weakest level
in almost eighteen years. That just happened in the last hour.
Speaker 1: Now here's the here's where you have to be careful.
You have to know what you're doing in this because
these people are fucking crazy, and I'm one of these
people who believes that they can turn our fucking lights.
Speaker 2: Out yeap China, Yes, yeah, yeah. I urge everybody to
look at the North Korean satellite that has a very
it's I think it's their only satellite. It doesn't take
any pictures, doesn't do anything all right, but has a
very peculiar orbit that would be pretty much useless as
a satellite unless that satellite was anything other than electromagnetic
pulse device. It also happens to be at the perfect
altitude that one would And unless anybody believes that North
Korea would that ump themselves, you can believe that North
Korea whipped that up themselves, and that's not actually Chinese.
But if you do believe that, you also have to
believe that China would have at least if North Korea
has one, China's got more than one. And remember that
Chinese satellite that went and was like eating other satellites
back in the day. This was like last year or
two years ago. It literally like was going or it
was the satellite. It's actually really crazy. Everybody wants to
look into it. It was big news. China had a
satellite that was zipping around and basically crunching other satellites.
Speaker 3: Huh.
Speaker 1: And maybe maybe, you know, we want to talk not
talk about it that this is rhetorical. You know, maybe
someone wants to talk about the fact that there are
two hundred and fifty thousand Chinese nationals in our universe
cities at this very moment.
Speaker 3: M every time, every couple of weeks they get busted
in the military for leaking information.
Speaker 2: Yeah, I think I think we need to be racist
as a matter of national security because it seems that
all the leaks and all the people that get caught
doing espionage all have a name like Shing Chang Chong, Like,
holy shit, who could have seen that coming? Wait? How
do we how do we find the Chinese moles get
the roster?
Speaker 1: You know, the you know, the whole leaguer thing was
the biggest fucking distraction. It was the distraction against all
of this. It was it was to distract us. Oh,
we have to worry about these these like literal terrorists
who were caught into in the summer of two thousand
and one training with the CIA in Afghanistan, and you
get to be sent back to China to disrupt them,
And yeah, sure that's something to think about. But no,
it's when you when you start fucking with a country
that has a billion people. And then I heard somebody
the other day arguing they don't have a billion people.
That's a lie. I don't care when you start talking
with their Yeah, do you when you start fucking with
their currency to people that have no god other than Machiavelianism,
watch the fuck out?
Speaker 3: Yeah, how many Americans do we have embedded in Chinese
institutions within China?
Speaker 2: I bet you'll be really easy to find and.
Speaker 3: Can freely conduct business and communication.
Speaker 2: They're both named Tim Walltz go into that.
Speaker 1: You know, it's absolutely insane that this open, this open
society this oh, and America is an idea. Anybody can
come here and be an American. Oh oh, how important
it is to have to bring to bring foreigners here
to educate them in our universities so they can see
how nice we are and how you know they can
fall in love with the.
Speaker 2: American and put them in our military.
Speaker 1: How about wet how about we how about we just
by default don't trust anyone?
Speaker 2: Yeah, how'd that work out?
Speaker 1: With and we'll start off with about one hundred and
fifty to two hundred million Americans right now.
Speaker 2: Yep. And you want I can't remember whose article it
was it was either shit. I want to make sure
I give credit where credit is due. But actually I'm
not even going to say who wrote it. I'm just
going to refer people back to your episode about the
recruitment crisis. I can't remember who wrote that article that
you had on, but I thought it was that article
to a lot of people that, let's put it this way,
would be in positions of, you know, in the type
of people that would be able to have influence on
that policy inside the DoD or at least how long
bring out the people's attention? It was insanely well written.
Speaker 1: How long ago is that episode?
Speaker 2: Over a year ago?
Speaker 1: This would it was lee Enfield? Yeah, and it was
an army war. It was an army war college paper.
Speaker 2: Yes, yeah, about the draft or something like that.
Speaker 1: Yeah, yeah, about how we have about how if we
would have went up against Russia and Ukraine the way
Ukraine went up against Russia, we would have been out
of soldiers in twenty nine days.
Speaker 2: Yep. That's the one that's the one, but particularly in
that article or in the conversation the two of you had,
he dropped a fact about the ethnic makeup of men
that enlist under combat arms and then being like ninety
three percent a certain type. Yeah. So if you were
to reduce the population to one hundred and fifty two
hundred million, like you just said, the amount of fighting
men that we would lose would be zero.
Speaker 1: Yep.
Speaker 3: It's why Eric Prince is going on about the uh
the tip to tail, the sorry, the teeth to tail ratio,
and that's certain that's why he's talking with Trump.
Speaker 2: It's the tail ratio where all of the all of
the uh, the DMV workers exist.
Speaker 3: Absolutely.
Speaker 2: Yeah, it's gonna be really interesting, man. I don't like,
I know, I've been kind of hyperbolic in the past
about like what's coming down the pike, but I really
think right now and like I know, there's literally like
I got a lot of commentators in our sphere basically
saying like, oh, it's like a slow news day and
we don't have a fuck all to talk about. I've
been kind of absent on Twitter and in the discourse
for like two or three weeks, but this is probably
the most not depressed, I would say, but like spiritually
apprehensive period I've had that I can remember in like
the last five years, like to where like the amount
of times that I pray is an order of magnitude
higher than it was pretty much any time in the
last five or six years. It just it feels like
something bad is gonna happen. Man, it really does, and
was at least the most dangerous.
Speaker 1: If what if it is what you and I were
texting about, then.
Speaker 2: That help us, Yes, God help us all. And you
know what's really crazy is that every other person at
the decision making table outside of Donald Trump is basically
fighting for the worst case scenario to happen. Europe, they're
fighting for the worst case scenario to happen, and at
least Israel fighting for the worst case scenario to happen.
Half of our fucking government fighting for the worst case
scenario to happen.
Speaker 1: Yea, And I question, I really question the people who
are in charge right now. I didn't talk about that
signal leak when it came out because it was turned
into slops so quickly. But the talk about the oh
we're tracking this guy, Oh he's going to visit his
girlfriend in this building. All right, we'll just drop a
bomba in this building. Hey, way to go.
Speaker 3: Where's the crisis of conscience? I mean to tie it
back to the doll thing. If you read these guys,
everyone in a position of major authority within the agency,
these men had deep metaphysical convictions and a lot of
weight to their you know, their ethical decision making processes.
I mean, looking at this administration, every everyone fixates on
the wrong angle. They focus on the like op sec
involved of the chat and yeah, sure I agree, But
the big problem is there's not a single person it's
asking in that chat, Hey, is this the right thing
to do? Should we be doing this? Right? You always
need to red team it.
Speaker 2: It was also kind of brilliant though not gonna lie right,
So if you remember the person who is the person
that brought in that.
Speaker 3: That reporter, Mike Waltz Alec Mike Waltz.
Speaker 2: Wasn't he like the third pick for what is he
the uh?
Speaker 1: He's the security as.
Speaker 2: Everybody should look back at the previous two people that
Trump and Tulsi. Tulsi wanted for her second in command.
They were both shot down. You know, choice number one
and choice number two were shot down for not being
anti Israel, but just not being pro Israel enough. And
this guy was number three that basically sailed through the
Senate confirmation in like an hour. So if you wanted,
if you thought you had a leaker that wasn't playing
for the team. And this guy has been vocally anti
Trump in the past and is a huge fan of
you know, the levant. Could you imagine like an easier
way of like just waiting, like letting that guy out
himself because all of it, all the media attention has
been on heg Seth, right, and all of the basically
everybody that the media has already hated already, and nobody
seems none of the media wants to talk about the
guy that actually brought the journalist in.
Speaker 3: No, I'm seeing all.
Speaker 2: That conversation is being had inside the Trump administration.
Speaker 3: He was also the guy pushing the the weaker stuff
in twenty one. And yeah, I agree with you that
you know heg Seth is, I mean, he's just like
a line officer.
Speaker 2: Yeah. I literally think Pet's Pete's interpreted. Pete's take on
heg Seth initial was the best, and I think it's
the one that holds true the most.
Speaker 1: What did I say?
Speaker 2: This is this is a guy that's not qualified for
the job, and he's there because he is loyal to
Donald Trump and no one else.
Speaker 1: Well, I mean that's that's a lot of the people
around him. But you know, when it comes to that
signal chat. Dave Smith was on Joe Rogan the other
day and he was talking about that, and he said,
do any of these people fear God?
Speaker 2: Does he?
Speaker 1: I mean, you're dropping everyone in that chat, including a Catholic,
including a Hindu, and including Protestants. We're celebrating dropping a
bomb on a fucking apartment building to kill one guy
that they thought may have something to do with something.
Speaker 2: I wonder.
Speaker 1: This is what This is what happens to you when
your country is taken over by fucking Zionists. You become
just like them. No morality, you don't care.
Speaker 2: Yeah, the same point, yep. You can only watch so
much of what we've been forced to watch without being changed.
All right, We're watching dehumanizing acts, saying how unhuman the
perpetrators of these acts are, but it has an effect
on us. You don't watch the dehumanizing of someone else,
large wonds of people without being dehumanized yourself. Right, we
are all less for what has been happening in Gaza.
Whether you want to say, oh, well, you know you side.
But if I hear like anybody, I mean Pete knows
like uh me personally, anybody that wants to call me
a third world this, I will happily invite you to
come call me that. And that's not what I'm talking about. Like,
you can't watch what we've been forced to watch with
out being dehumanized yourself, Like everyone's value of human life
has been cheapened now for just having been witnessed to it.
I firmly believe that because we've all been forced to
abide evil as a country, as individuals, we've been forced
to look away, whether we have no other choice but two,
or whether we've actively doing it like the people in
our government, right, like I think you are, you are
spiritually lessened by having abided it. And I don't know
what the long term effects of it are, but I
really think that everyone has become less for having been
forced literally forced like like the fuck like clockwork orange,
our eyes taped open, watching what happens or watching what's
been happening. You don't you don't do that without you
don't you don't watch what we've had to watch, eyes
taped open, right, not being able to fucking look away
from it and not be changed.
Speaker 3: One thing that really bothers me is when I see
Trump administration officials lie while wearing a cross. I have
a big problem with that. And I also have a
big problem with the lack of any kind of shame.
I mean, I mean and every you know, I agree
with everyone on the journalist thing, but you should need
to have an answer for when a journalist asks you
a hard question about ethics, and I think you have
a huge obligation as a Christian to answer honestly and
truthfully and thoughtfully. Uh, when you kill someone or when
you order someone's death, you need an answer beyond deflecting.
And it just it really rubs me the wrong way
that people can lie we'll wearing cross.
Speaker 2: Yeah, I only wish these journalists weren't atheists, like fucking retards,
because I think a better question to be thrown at
any of these assholes, where do your actions honor God? Yeah?
Speaker 1: All right, that's that's it, and that's that's the end
right there. That's that's your actions honor God, that's the
end right there. Anybody want to promote anything.
Speaker 2: Nothing to promote, no, nothing to celebrate either, unfortunately.
Speaker 1: Yeah, all right, gentlemen, thank you so much, and let's
do it again real soon.
Speaker 2: Fuck man. Yeah, it's fun.
Speaker 1: Thank you,