Speaker 1: Golf Smarter number four hundred and twenty eight, published on
March eighteen, twenty fourteen.
Speaker 2: Welcome to Golf Smarter Mulligans, your second chance to gain
insight and advice from the best instructors featured on the
Golf Smarter podcast. Great Golf Instruction never gets old. Our
interview library features hundreds of hours of game improvement conversations
like this that are no longer available in any podcast app.
Speaker 3: The USGA's Rules of Golf is very hard to read,
but by design it is the legal explanation of the rules.
And you were talking about difficulty understanding. You know, there's
a ball and there's the ball, and they are completely
two different things. Or you have a golfer and the
golf No, technically that's the definition. You know, like I
am the golfer and you are a golfer. The ball
I'm playing is the ball as opposed to the one
in my pocket.
Speaker 4: Which is a ball.
Speaker 3: It is very confusing. The usg does a great job
at creating a definition that is the epitome of what
it needs to be.
Speaker 1: The Golf Rules. Stroke Play, a fun and informative book
by Richard Todd.
Speaker 2: This is Golf Smarter sharing tips and insights from golfers
and golf professionals to help lower your score. It's worked
for your host, Fred Green.
Speaker 1: Welcome to the Golf Smarter Podcast. Richard.
Speaker 4: Hey, Fred, it's great to be on.
Speaker 1: Thanks, thank you. So you've written this cute little book.
But you're not an author, you're not a golf instructor.
You're a guy with a job like all of us.
But you had this need to write a book about
golf rules.
Speaker 3: Why I did? I, Like many golfers, I tried to
get through the USGA's rule book.
Speaker 4: Uh it's I know, I know.
Speaker 3: Well, actually, I guess I should say, like many most
people don't own a copy, let alone crack it open.
But I tried several times in my life to get
through the book. And the last time was about three
years ago, and I had read the section on tending
the flagstick and immediately flashback thirty years to me being
a teen and my dad taking me out with his
friends for the very first time on the course. You know,
of course, that's one of those wonderful times where you
really feel proud because the old man's showing you off
to his friends and the first tea, you know, had
the jitters.
Speaker 4: But kept it in the faraway.
Speaker 3: You're going, well, I'm on the first green, I'm tending
the flagstick. My dad's just off the green, and of
course he sculls it. It's going for a bee line
for the hole, and I start pulling the stick out
and he starts yelling me to throw it back in
because he's hoping for that ricochet, and of course that
doesn't happen. And what does happen is the ball shoots
right off the green and down the hill because it
was a hilltop green. And at that point he proceeds
to tell me how happy he is that I'm here
intending the flagstick. Everybody in the group heard him. People
on the course I think, heard his comments to me,
And at that point, you know, I'm feeling less than
a caddy, just I shouldn't even be on the course.
So again, flash forward back to thirty years. I read
this section and realize I was right, he was wrong,
but it stayed with me for thirty years. At that point,
I said, there's got to be a better way of
learning the rules than from somebody telling you, because that
somebody generally heard it from somebody else who heard it
from somebody else who did not hear it from an
authority figure who knows the rules right right, And so
I said, well, that story in itself is a great
example for this rule. Well why don't I do that
for all the rules? And one thing led to another,
and three years later we have the Golf.
Speaker 1: Rules as opposed to the Rules of Golf, which is
the USGA's book. And you know, you're absolutely right. I
have it sitting on my desk, the Rules of Golf,
the twenty twelve, twenty fifteen version, and I've never opened
it because a couple of years ago I try, I
opened up the rule It's like, you know, I should
know this stuff, and I started in like I can't
get through this. I have no idea what they're talking about.
You know, it just didn't. It didn't sit with me.
I couldn't absorb it. But when I read your book,
everything changed all of a sudden, all these rules, everything
was in context of a round of golf, and I
started recognizing things that I've been through and that people say,
what's the rule on that fred because they think I
would know, and I'm.
Speaker 5: Like, oh, exactly, So, then how how did it come
to be that you wrote the book as a story.
Speaker 3: That first thought of the example, and then I just
started putting more and more together, and I'm thinking, well,
how can I blend this into a story as opposed
to just, you know, two hundred and fifty examples, because
that's out there and that's boring, and it just hit me.
So I've been golfing for thirty some years and I've
got lots of experiences, so it wasn't too hard to
piece them all together. Although this book, when you talk
about writing it, I didn't do it in a real
systematic way. I had the rules of or, I had
the USGA's Rules of Golf sitting open. I had notes
on what I wanted to do. I had the decisions
on the rules of Golf open, and I had a
notepad and I wrote this out old school with paper
and pencil, and I'm constantly flipping pages back and forth.
And of course I had scorecards laying around because I
was trying to come up with ideas for whole layouts.
And it took a while. But you're right, the USGA's
Rules of Golf is very hard to read it, but
by design it is the legal explanation of the rules
and you were talking about difficulty understanding. You know, there's
a ball and there's the ball, and they come they
are completely two different things.
Speaker 4: Or you have a a golfer and the golf.
Speaker 3: No, technically that's that's the definitely you know, like I
am the golfer and you are a golfer. The ball
I'm playing is the ball as opposed to the one
in my pocket, which is a ball.
Speaker 1: Oh my god, that you've just Okay, that clarified that
I had no idea.
Speaker 4: Awesome, Yes, geez, it's very It is very confusing.
Speaker 3: You know. The USGA does a great job at creating
a definition that, shall we say, is the epitome of
what it needs to be.
Speaker 4: It explains.
Speaker 3: As a matter of fact, in two days, I'll be
heading up to Detroit for the USGA's rules schools. I'm
putting my little air quotes in the air. It's four
days of in depth fun going through the rule book.
Speaker 4: Oh my gosh. And even after.
Speaker 1: Does this open to anybody? Can go to this?
Speaker 4: Yes, you can go to the USG's website sign up they.
Speaker 1: Have that will be a party. I can tell you
there's gonna be guys who are are gonna just be
drinking their break. Really a bunch of guys who are
signing up to go hear about the rules that are.
Speaker 4: Not it's oh well, it's a it's a diverse group.
Speaker 3: Last year and you know, I was in Pittsburgh and now,
most of the play people in the room are.
Speaker 4: Of course pros.
Speaker 3: There was somebody from the Big Break, individual from the
Golf Channel tour. We even had USGA Hall of Fame
members in the group as well as tour officials.
Speaker 4: So the level is is pretty up there.
Speaker 3: Although there was a gentleman that had yet to complete
a single round of golf.
Speaker 1: No, so.
Speaker 4: Of course he had the most questions.
Speaker 1: Of course, but it's like put it to use, you'll
figure it out. So are you a rules freak? Do
you love rules? Do you love golf rules? I do?
Speaker 3: And also part of my day job is I'm a
banking compliance manager.
Speaker 1: Oh so you're a golf compliance manager.
Speaker 4: On the course you're putting it.
Speaker 1: Yeah, when you're on the courus you are the compliance guy.
Speaker 4: Yeah yeah.
Speaker 1: And do you call people out on stuff all the time?
Speaker 4: No?
Speaker 3: That was one of the things that when people heard
I was going to the school, They're like, oh, great,
you're going to be one of those guys that nobody
wants to golf.
Speaker 1: With, right, because I won't play with you if that's.
Speaker 4: Golf is as you know, it's it's a game for yourself.
Speaker 3: Although if I'm playing with three other of my friends
and they're rolling their ball out of every divot and
they're not counting strokes in the pond, it's not an
even game.
Speaker 4: And it's funny. Yeah, yeah, so many people.
Speaker 3: It's irrelevant of how long you've been playing or how
good you're playing knowing the rules. This summer I was
playing with a friend of mine, just so you know.
He's a NASA engineer, so he's no dummy.
Speaker 1: He's another so an engineer, so he's another complaint type
of guy.
Speaker 4: Yes, but not about golf.
Speaker 3: He still has his golf bank he had in high school,
which is he got from his dad. So it's the
old leather golf bag and the clubs to match. We
were on the third hole and he put one end
of the lake and he looked at me and he says,
what do I do? How do I score?
Speaker 4: That? He had no idea. Interesting, my dad called me up.
Speaker 3: My dad's been a scratch golfer He's been on leagues
at least twice a week his entire life. One of
his playing partners used to play at Ohio State and
he was telling me about being an embedded lie and
it took him four strokes to get out and he
finished getting onto the green. His playing partner said, well,
why didn't you just pick it up and drop it?
He goes, I didn't know I could. So you never know, You.
Speaker 1: Never know, you never know. Well, now that you said that,
I think it's a good opportunity for a teaching This
is a good teaching opportunity. Here tell us what happens
when you hit the ball in the water.
Speaker 3: Well, there are I believe four options now I write it.
Speaker 4: I don't have it all quite memorized. Of course you can.
You can go back to the tee and play stroking distance.
There's oh I'm having.
Speaker 1: A okay, but waite define stroking distance here if you
have to go back to the tee. And I see,
I'm obviously had that wrong in my head. I thought
stroking distance is you'll take the distance where the ball
went out, you pull it out, you just hit from
right there, but you're hitting your third shot.
Speaker 4: Is that stroking distance, no stroking distances. You go all
the way back to where you hit it, and you
count the stroke.
Speaker 1: But so you're going all the way back to where
you hit it from and you're hitting your shot, but
you're not hitting your second shot. You're hitting your third
shot correct. You count the penalty, you count the ball
in the water, you count pulling it out, and then
you count correct and then you count your next struck.
Speaker 4: Right, and that that goes.
Speaker 3: And let's let's pretend it's lost in the trees and
you know a general area where it went in. But
if you can't find it within your five minutes, it's a.
Speaker 4: Lost ball and you have to go back to the
tea box.
Speaker 3: And you know, let's not get into the slow play
issue there.
Speaker 1: Yeah, but or what marshalls do or don't.
Speaker 3: Do, right, I don't think I've ever seen anybody actually
drive back or walk back two hundred yards to the
tea box to hit again.
Speaker 1: You know, Well, that's what a provisional, that's what a
provisional is all about. So you hit it, you like, oops,
I think it's in the bush, it's in the trees
over there, but I don't know if I'm going to
find it, I might, but I'm going to hit another
ball just in case I'm hitting. You announced to the group, right,
This is part of the roles, part of the rules.
You have to announce to your group. I am hitting
a provisional, which to me, i'm hitting a pro v
one provisional I'm hitting. That's why I won't play with
those balls. It's like I might hitting provisionals. So all right,
so now you're hitting the provisional. But if you don't
find the first ball, and you better know what ball
you're playing, then you've got to then you're hitting your
third stroke.
Speaker 4: Yes, okay, exactly.
Speaker 1: Glad I have that right. So then what what is
when do you get to say, all right, well, I
lost my ball over here, or it's not to be found,
or I hit it just beyond the out of bounds
line here and just pull it no closer to the hole.
But hit from that general area? Is that not? Is
that cheating?
Speaker 3: Well, if you're talking out of bounds, yeah, there's no
dropping near.
Speaker 4: It's go back.
Speaker 1: Okay, Oh is this a lateral? Are we talking about
a lateral? What's a hazard?
Speaker 3: Is it a red steak or a yellow steak? Well,
red steak is rare. I don't know what yellow means.
Speaker 1: We get red and white out here.
Speaker 4: Oh really, okay, I've never seen anyellow steak. Wait so yeah,
it gets very confusing as you can see.
Speaker 1: Yeah yeah, so wait now we don't know if what
when you take a if it's a lateral hazard, what
does that mean? Do you know you can You didn't
write the rules of golf. You wrote the golf rules.
Speaker 3: Right, which explains them like a lateral hazards. So we've
got the stroke and distance and go back. You can
drop behind the lateral hazard on a line from the
flagstick to where you're at. But depending on how that
creek moves, you could be farther back than the tea box.
Speaker 1: Isn't it where the ball goes over when it when
it crosses the out of bounds or that area. Really
they're sitting here.
Speaker 3: There's yeah, I know, I know, there's no there's no
line of flight rule.
Speaker 4: Really mm hmm.
Speaker 1: People have been making that up. I mean the guys
that I play with, it's like, you can't go any
closer to the hall. You got to go in the
line where it was like, really.
Speaker 4: Oh boy, I might be confusing my water hazards up
right now.
Speaker 1: Okay, but yes, sorry to put you on the spot then,
so okay, okay, So then let's talk about how this
book reads, because I don't want to put you on
the spot because I want to We're gonna we're going
to do a part two of this conversation and we're
going to get into some of these rules. So you
better you better hone up quickly because we got about
five more minutes and then we're going to head into
a uh part two of this conversation. Are you gonna
have time for that?
Speaker 4: Yes?
Speaker 1: Okay, so that's great, okay, good, so, so so tell
me how you you laid it out. So these are
not this is not an actual round of golf. Your
book doesn't. It's just like compiling all these different rounds
that you had in all these different moments where people
didn't follow the rules. I almost sad cheated they didn't
follow the rules according to the rules of golf, and
someone gets called on it. So explain because I love this.
Is what I loved about your book, is it put
it in context. And then you at the end of
each chapter, which there are eighteen because it's a round
of golf, right, right. So then at the end of
each chapter you have the footnotes to everything that you
mark throughout the throughout the book. It's like here, I'm
just I'm on page ten and he said I'll hit first.
Dick spoke up since I have the lowest handicap, and
then in parentheses you have C one dot three see
one dot four. And then you go to the end
of the chapter and says see one dot three. The
order of play on the first hole is decided randomly
by the lot. The person with the lowest score thereafter
goes first has honors on the next hole, and then
see one dot four. Order of play does not include
handicap strokes, only the actual number of strokes on a hole.
So it's like, oh, you know, it's like and I
have an issue with the honors rule as it is,
but that's my own kind of weirdness. But that's how
the book works. And in through the eighteen chapters you
pretty much cover all the rules.
Speaker 4: Right, yes, in a stroke play.
Speaker 1: In stroke well, this book is called the Golf Rolls
stroke Play.
Speaker 3: Right, And of course you can't have stroke play and
match play at the same time, but want to make
that distinction because We've got two more books coming out.
The next one's on golf eatiquette, and the one after
that is on match play.
Speaker 1: Oh okay, good, thanks for letting me know. And I
have a friend who does that every time goes aha,
I beat you on that hole. That's the first hole
I beat you on, but I'm down by nine strokes.
You know, it's like he plays both match and stroke
play on every round we play.
Speaker 3: You can't do that, well, I suppose you could have
two different games going, two different set of roles playing
at the same time.
Speaker 4: He's just trying to Can you play uno and poker
at the same time?
Speaker 1: No, come, you can't know that. Well, we don't play
for money anyway, so it doesn't really matter.
Speaker 4: That's interested in the book too?
Speaker 1: What playing for money?
Speaker 4: Yes, USG of course has comments on that.
Speaker 1: And and go ahead explain.
Speaker 3: All wagering and bettering must be done and agreed upon
before the round starts.
Speaker 1: Well, that's the way I feel about all rules for
the for a round of golf. Everyone agreed before we
get started. Let's just agree that, you know, like anything
inside the leathers a gimme. Okay, fine, you know, it's
like as long as we agree on these things and
you can't go oh wait and now on the third hole,
Oh wait, I got another one. No, no, no, you can't
do that.
Speaker 4: You know that.
Speaker 3: That's an interesting point. This gets down to knowing the
rules and following the rules and what you're comfortable with
the actual rules. Say, you can't agree to not follow
a rule. That's disqualification. So what you just said would
means everybody in your group would be disqualified from what, Well,
there's not.
Speaker 4: Yeah, you really don't have a big pride, But I'm not.
Speaker 1: I'm not talking about competitive play, the local championship that
I'm not. I'm just talking about a round of golf
on Saturday with my buddies.
Speaker 4: And it's like nothing, Yeah, you can do that. You
can definitely do that.
Speaker 3: You know whatever, you Golf is a game of fun,
it's supposed to be.
Speaker 1: Just don't play with a compliance guy.
Speaker 3: You know he may agree to that, but you know,
don't try to post your scores as a as a
handicap for your for your handicap calculations.
Speaker 1: Oops, what's your favorite rule that you love to call out?
Do you have one that you like you see all
the time and go, you know you you really can't
do that.
Speaker 3: You know, I'm gonna I'm gonna go with my son's
favorite rule, and that's do not give advice. And he
uses that because my father won't shut up the course
pro you know, of course that doesn't know any of
the rules, is always giving advice. So my son likes
to tack on two strokes every time he opens his mouth.
Speaker 1: So wait, is that an official rule that you cannot
give advice?
Speaker 4: Yes, it is a two stroke pel.
Speaker 1: Really, because I've got a guy who's telling you what
to do all the time, you just want to go
leave me alone.
Speaker 4: Yes, rememborize that rule number I don't have a memory.
Speaker 1: It's a two stroke penalty. Oh, David, you are me? Okay,
this is we're interviewing Richard. David is the guy I
was just talking about. It's so so I got to
ask you one last thing before we wrap this part up.
You're you've been listening to Golf Smarter.
Speaker 4: You've heard it.
Speaker 3: Yes, I've been listening for nine years. I've heard I've
heard every episode you've ever done.
Speaker 1: Oh wow, thank you really okay, thank you, that's very matter.
Speaker 3: In fact, you've mentioned you've mentioned me four times throughout
your career.
Speaker 1: You've got a scorecard on that. That's very funny. Well,
thank you, well, I got to say, because this book
is the foursome that you have in this book is
your son, your dad, right you?
Speaker 4: Yes? And me and my brother in law and.
Speaker 1: Your brother in law. Okay, so it's a family affair here,
and you did a very nice job. I got to say,
I'm kind of freaked out by this. But you dedicated
the book to your dad and your son, and your
daughter and your wife for being so supportive. Why, Richard,
why would you possibly include beyond your your wife, your daughter,
your son, your father. Why did you dedicate the book
to me? I was so blown away when I saw that.
It's like, dude, you listened to a podcast, But what
did I do?
Speaker 4: Well? You know, as it says in You've done a
number of things.
Speaker 3: You provide such great content that's.
Speaker 4: So wide in variety.
Speaker 3: You know, I loved listening to the caddies that have
played all over the world and hearing talks behind the
ropes as well as new products and inventions. But really,
the last line you did help me to drop twenty strokes?
Speaker 1: How is that possible? I never I've never played with you.
I've never held the club for you.
Speaker 3: One of your podcasts made a very simple comment. It
was really off the cuff. May have him been by
Martin Chuck. I'm not sure, but my dad, despite him
being such a great golfer, gave me no lessons, and
he was left handed and I'm not so he probably.
Speaker 4: Wouldn't have helped anyhow.
Speaker 3: But you've the Golf Smarter podcast has been very enjoyable.
Speaker 4: We'll go to share please being a friend. Wow, what
that tip was?
Speaker 1: Do you know?
Speaker 4: Do you remember? Oh?
Speaker 3: Absolutely, but it's going to make me sound like a
terrible golfer. I didn't realize that.
Speaker 1: You just said you dropped twenty strokes.
Speaker 4: Sorry, I was really, really, really bad.
Speaker 3: It was about this swing plane being circular and not.
You know, you don't hit on a straight path to
make the ball go straight. That was always my interpretation.
So I literally my swing path was almost straight down
the line, and that's why it's a terrible hook slice.
Speaker 1: Oh so then you you you just went out and
realized that and started doing a different swing path, and
you and your game changed dramatically.
Speaker 4: Yep, along with other things that you've mentioned. You know,
just relaxing.
Speaker 1: It's not that I mentioned Richard Richard. I never mentioned
these other people. I'm just asking questions.
Speaker 4: Okay, well, thank you.
Speaker 1: I'm I am. I am so humbled and flattered by
by the dedication. I can't tell you how it was
nice enough you to write in my copy of the book,
but then to read on and went what my name's
in print? That just blew me away. And I thank
you very very much. And and that's not why I
had you on the show to talk about me, But
I really really did enjoy your book, and I think
it's a valuable collection, a valuable piece for everybody's book
collection because in this simple read, and again it's not
even one hundred pages, you're going to get clarification on
so many things that have come up in your rounds,
and you're like, oh, and it makes so much sense.
So congratulations on really putting a very good book together.
Speaker 4: Thank you very much.
Speaker 1: All Right, so now I'm going to have you read
it to yourself really quickly, because we're going to go
back into this conversation and we are gonna talk about rules,
specific rules, and that'll be part two. The book is
available in our Golfers Maart via Amazon. Is there a
digital version of it? You just need to have it
in your library.
Speaker 4: There is an ebook available.
Speaker 1: Awesome, so you can get it for your kindle type
of thing.
Speaker 4: Yes, awesome.
Speaker 1: Okay, so you can do that and you can get
more at the Golf rules dot com.
Speaker 3: Right absolutely, We're on Facebook, Twitter, there's a YouTube, book trailer,
and we have a blog. All of that can be
found at the Golf rules dot com.
Speaker 1: To spring Off Richard, thanks so much for again for
the kind words and for joining us here.
Speaker 4: My pleasure for it. Thanks so much,