Speaker 1: Last week, we covered part one of the Canadian cult
Speaker 1: case known as the ant Hill Kids. We discussed the leader,
Speaker 1: how the cult originated, and the abuse many of the
Speaker 1: members endured. Here in part two, we will continue with
Speaker 1: the horrific tales of torture and abuse that only escalated.
Speaker 1: As well, we will talk about the final resolution and
Speaker 1: the conviction. My name's Ben and.
Speaker 2: I'm Nicole, and you're listening to Wicked.
Speaker 1: And Grim, a true crime podcast. The following podcast and
Speaker 1: material intended for a mature audience. Listener discretion is advised.
Speaker 1: You're gonna need a drink today. I'm warning you right now.
Speaker 1: I've got whiskey because oh boy, this this is hard.
Speaker 1: This is no pun intended not to that's what she said.
Speaker 1: This is hard, just straight up it's gonna suck. Cool.
Speaker 2: Yeah, you know, I was really living my best life
Speaker 2: before this. I was drinking a Christmas drink and watching
Speaker 2: a Christmas movie.
Speaker 1: A good old like Hallmark movie where everything's like happy
Speaker 1: and like small town sort of situation.
Speaker 2: Yeah wow, And now I'm coming to.
Speaker 1: This, Well, this is small town stuff too, just very
Speaker 1: dark small town stuff.
Speaker 2: Oh man, I just love to say really quickly too,
Speaker 2: because someone I can't remember what platform it was. I
Speaker 2: hanging out in Patreon. Patreon totally called me out because
Speaker 2: we were talking about when we great and we're like
Speaker 2: December first people, but then like before December first, I
Speaker 2: do a lot of Christmas shopping and then I'm also
Speaker 2: watching Christmas movie. So it's a bit.
Speaker 1: Yeah, I'm a bit.
Speaker 2: I'm a bit what will be.
Speaker 1: The work, But it's pick and choose when you do
Speaker 1: it that at least, you know what I mean. Totally like,
Speaker 1: if you don't want to have a Christmas Day, you
Speaker 1: don't have to. When you decorate, it's a Christmas Day.
Speaker 2: Yeah, that's very true, you know, yes, very true.
Speaker 1: I want to quickly give our our patrons a shout
Speaker 1: out because I don't want to talk too much on this.
Speaker 1: We want to get into the case today because this
Speaker 1: is a part two. But we did have a couple
Speaker 1: of people sign up for Patreon this week, so shout
Speaker 1: out to Kim and her girls, Kinsley and Braylin and
Speaker 1: Laura Wilson.
Speaker 2: Awesome, yeah, thank you, thank you.
Speaker 1: They're all getting the behind the scenes stuff and even
Speaker 1: the extra episode at the end of the month.
Speaker 2: Which is coming up soon. Actually it is.
Speaker 1: We gotta. We got to figure out which case we're
Speaker 1: going to do. For that, we got a big old lisp,
Speaker 1: so we got to die there and get our stuff
Speaker 1: in order.
Speaker 2: So I think you've made us wait long enough.
Speaker 1: Are you ready for Part two of The ant Hill Kids. No,
Speaker 1: I'm going to tell you now you're not ready.
Speaker 2: I don't think I'm ready.
Speaker 1: If you do not know this case yet, be prepared.
Speaker 1: This gets graphic, it's gross, it's disturbing. The abuse and
Speaker 1: torture is a lot.
Speaker 2: My goodness. You compared it to another one of our cases.
Speaker 2: It's a doozy juneco.
Speaker 1: Yeah, so it's not comparable, but it's at that level
Speaker 1: of holy shit, if that makes sense. Yeah, okay, Yeah.
Speaker 1: So last episode or sorry episode, we covered a bit
Speaker 1: of like rasch or roche or rock apparently is more
Speaker 1: how you pronounce it, but I'm going to stick with
Speaker 1: Roche because of how I've been pronouncing it. So Roche
Speaker 1: and how he started his cult known as the ant
Speaker 1: Hill Kids. We covered the development of the abuse tortured
Speaker 1: and covered the events that unfolded, and we left off
Speaker 1: in nineteen eighty seven, when fourteen children were removed from
Speaker 1: the commune and placed into foster homes. The cult was
Speaker 1: left with just adults, two men and eight women, and
Speaker 1: Roche once again seemed to level up his abuse. That's
Speaker 1: where we left off. Kay, you ready for this? Okay? Well,
Speaker 1: as he leveled up his abuse, he only worsened. It
Speaker 1: didn't seem like anything really mattered. Just every year, every month,
Speaker 1: every incident, whatever, he just intensified in his wicked behaviors.
Speaker 1: With just a few drinks, he would launch into ramblings
Speaker 1: about the Master of life and death, the good and
Speaker 1: bad Creator. On one occasion, inexplicably enraged at one of
Speaker 1: the commune members, whose name was Claude Oulette, he issued
Speaker 1: a very bizarre ordered. He instructed him to wear an
Speaker 1: elastic band and wind it very tightly around his scrotum.
Speaker 1: Oh my, I.
Speaker 2: Don't know why. I wasn't expecting that.
Speaker 1: I told you this is gonna get graphic and wow, brutal.
Speaker 1: He did not skimp when it came to any sort
Speaker 1: of torture by any means necessary. He was like he
Speaker 1: didn't give a fuck.
Speaker 2: And see, I've said this before, but how does he
Speaker 2: even think of that? Like, I'm sorry about I don't
Speaker 2: know what's wrong with you to even think. I don't
Speaker 2: that as a torture thing.
Speaker 1: I don't know. Okay, Well, Claude adhered to the strange
Speaker 1: order by his messiah that they called Moses, remember, and
Speaker 1: he proceeded to wear the rubber band tightly wound over
Speaker 1: his scrotum, and he wore it overnight and the next
Speaker 1: morning it resulted in irreversible damage to his testicles.
Speaker 2: Oh yeah, I can only well, you know what I can.
Speaker 2: I mean, yeah, well, that's apparently you feel like this
Speaker 2: is much worse.
Speaker 1: I mean, I'm kind of feeling it a little bit
Speaker 1: right now. Yeah, but this is actually even apparently an
Speaker 1: older method of castrating animals.
Speaker 2: Oh, I've never heard this.
Speaker 1: So event you basically just wind the band around the
Speaker 1: testicles and eventually they fall off. Gosh, because it cuts
Speaker 1: off circulation and everything.
Speaker 2: Right, yeah, but I feel like that it just can't be.
Speaker 2: That can't feel good.
Speaker 1: No, I can't imagine it would. Yeah. In response, Roche
Speaker 1: decided didn't decide to actually to take pity or feel
Speaker 1: remorseful to this incident. Instead, he decided to take matters
Speaker 1: into his own hands. After all, he has performed surgeries
Speaker 1: and his commune members before, Right, so what would be
Speaker 1: the different about this situation. So Roche began performing a
Speaker 1: very gruesome procedure on Claude in order to quote repair
Speaker 1: his testicle.
Speaker 2: Okay, yeah, how the fuck does he think he's going
Speaker 2: to repair his testicle?
Speaker 1: Well, he started by using a razor blade to slice
Speaker 1: open claud scroll and with his hand, he manually removed
Speaker 1: the now infected testicle. What and cauterize the wombed with
Speaker 1: a hot piece of iron?
Speaker 2: What the ship?
Speaker 1: Yeah?
Speaker 2: He removed it.
Speaker 1: Yeah, and he cut open his scrotum and pulled out
Speaker 1: his testy and then seared it shut with a hot iron.
Speaker 2: Okay, I'm sure that felt real good.
Speaker 1: No, I'm sure it did.
Speaker 2: Something.
Speaker 1: Yeah. Subsequently, Roche decided that he needed to hold a vote,
Speaker 1: so he orchestrated one, and this was to decide whether
Speaker 1: Claude should be stoned to death for allegedly quote offending God. However,
Speaker 1: the vote did not go through as Roche was hoped,
Speaker 1: and his proposal was overturned. So Roche resorted to wielding
Speaker 1: an acetylene torch, which is that torch they use in
Speaker 1: welding oxy acetylene towards. They call it so it makes
Speaker 1: his oxygen acetylene so that torch that literally melts metal.
Speaker 1: He began and wielding this and threatening to use it
Speaker 1: to cut open Claude's stomach.
Speaker 2: Oh well, I mean, look what the guy just did
Speaker 2: to him. Not that it's oh sorry, who the Shitroch.
Speaker 1: Was wielding this because the vote was no.
Speaker 2: So now he has something even more so against Clyde Claude. Claude.
Speaker 1: Yes, So he's like, okay, you know what, This surgery
Speaker 1: is now done, but you offended God for whatever reason,
Speaker 1: because I guess his testicle gout infected. So he's like, hey,
Speaker 1: should we stone him to death now? And they're like no.
Speaker 1: So he's like, well, fuck this, I'm going to fucking
Speaker 1: just cut him open with him the subtlean torch instead.
Speaker 1: Then screw you guys.
Speaker 2: Okay, so say so, my mind altered what you said
Speaker 2: to make it more easy for me to digest. And
Speaker 2: it was literally this guy that was getting his testicle
Speaker 2: cut doing the voted, like doing a vote and going
Speaker 2: to no.
Speaker 1: Yeah, but okay, that's not what happened.
Speaker 2: It was not what happened.
Speaker 1: It was Roche saying, okay, for whatever reason, now I'm
Speaker 1: not done with your surgery, and I just want you
Speaker 1: to suffer more, so should we stone them? Is yes? Okay, wow,
Speaker 1: Well Claude was rightfully terrified in the situation, so he ran.
Speaker 1: He resorted to seeking refuge in the woods nearby. They
Speaker 1: lived kind of out in the woods anyways. It was
Speaker 1: a strategy that was not unfamiliar to the commune at
Speaker 1: this time. He and others regularly use this tactic when
Speaker 1: Roche descended into his bouts of frequent drunkenness. It was
Speaker 1: just kind of a routine tactic at this point. It's
Speaker 1: just kind of like to temporarily get away from the situation.
Speaker 2: The madness.
Speaker 1: Basically kind of like a kid running to the room
Speaker 1: and closing the door. It's their safe place. It's the
Speaker 1: only thing they can think of to get away.
Speaker 2: That's really sad.
Speaker 1: One of the members, by the name of Jissel in particular,
Speaker 1: would occasionally take shelter at her father's house until Roche
Speaker 1: would persuade her to return to what he deemed her
Speaker 1: quote true family. Despite a temporary period of good treatment
Speaker 1: upon her return, Giselle inevitably faced repercussions for running away
Speaker 1: and bringing dishonor to Roche. So even though he's like, hey,
Speaker 1: it's all good, Just come back. We're your family, and
Speaker 1: say the first day or two was good. He's like, yeah,
Speaker 1: it's all good, you're back. We're happy to have you back. Yeah,
Speaker 1: he resorted to a ship right away.
Speaker 2: Yeah, that doesn't surprise me at all.
Speaker 1: One incident, in February of nineteen eighty seven, Roche impulsively
Speaker 1: hurled a hunting knife aunt Chizelle, inflicting a three inch
Speaker 1: deep gash on her thigh that immediately began gushing blood profusely.
Speaker 1: Roche showed zero remorse for any feeling for that matter,
Speaker 1: and instead he just simply fetched another beer and went
Speaker 1: to bed. Holy shit, Yeah, wow, this guy is fucked.
Speaker 2: I can't believe that you would just hurt someone to
Speaker 2: that extend and just like pace, Yeah that is that's
Speaker 2: some kind of monster right there.
Speaker 1: Well, it gets even worse than that situation because he
Speaker 1: went to bed with his beer. But then he woke
Speaker 1: up two hours later and discovered a clot had formed
Speaker 1: in Jizelle's swollen leg as a result of the injury.
Speaker 1: And once he discovered this, Roache decided to take matters
Speaker 1: into his own hands, opting to perform another makeshift operation. No,
Speaker 1: so he pressed hard on Jizelle's leg to force the
Speaker 1: wound to reopen. Gosh, he probed it with a red
Speaker 1: hot iron file and poured cup after cup of boiling
Speaker 1: water onto the injury, scalding it and burning her over
Speaker 1: and over and over again.
Speaker 2: That's way too much.
Speaker 1: Oh, this is just scratching the surface.
Speaker 2: Gosh. Okay, I felt that one though.
Speaker 1: Wow, the shit he's doing is beyond gruesome, beyond horrifying,
Speaker 1: Like there's no words.
Speaker 2: No, and it's so sad that these people can't get away,
Speaker 2: you know, like they're stuck there almost.
Speaker 1: Yeah. Oh, I'm going to touch on a little bit
Speaker 1: later about why these people are really stuck there and
Speaker 1: get into their perspective a little bit, but for now,
Speaker 1: we're going to continue with this. Just I've got a
Speaker 1: bit on this episode regarding that.
Speaker 2: Yeah, okay, well, her poor damn leg, Oh my gosh.
Speaker 1: Well, I mean a week later, though, the woundn't became infected,
Speaker 1: which I mean it's not a real surprise given the
Speaker 1: no barbaric surgeries that are being done.
Speaker 2: Yeah, so then what.
Speaker 1: Well Roche decided to give it another go.
Speaker 2: Oh my gosh, no, I don't want to hear about
Speaker 2: this anymore.
Speaker 1: No, so to this same girl who he just sliced
Speaker 1: open with throwing a knife at her, scalded with boiling water,
Speaker 1: and probed with a red hot piece of metal. He
Speaker 1: decided that now the remedy would be for him to
Speaker 1: pack the infected wound with a concoction of salt, olive
Speaker 1: oil and spruce gum. So because it's infected, he's shoving
Speaker 1: more shit him.
Speaker 2: Oh my gosh. Okay.
Speaker 1: Now, eventually Giselle was able to recover enough that she
Speaker 1: was able to attempt to escape once more. But a
Speaker 1: few days later she returned to Roast just as before,
Speaker 1: unable to let go of the power this sick fuck
Speaker 1: had over her. Dang, she truly she returned because she
Speaker 1: truly believed that she needed to return to fulfill her
Speaker 1: role in God's plan and to remain with Roache despite
Speaker 1: the ongoing cycle of abuse and control that's going on.
Speaker 2: Yeah, he really has a hold on them, he really does.
Speaker 2: It's shocking that you would just go through that much
Speaker 2: and then and then you know, still feel the need
Speaker 2: to be coming back.
Speaker 1: Well, it's not that they're coming back for Roche. They're
Speaker 1: coming back because of God. They believe he is this
Speaker 1: conduit through which they are serving the Lord. Yeah, that's
Speaker 1: what they think. It's not that, oh, Roche is all
Speaker 1: powerful and all knowing, it's he is bringing God us
Speaker 1: through God, and like he's the pathway.
Speaker 2: And they're having to go through these things to get
Speaker 2: through this pathway or closer to God or whatever, right.
Speaker 1: Kind of kind of yeah, Okay, it's more so they're
Speaker 1: not going through them to get closer to God. It's
Speaker 1: that this is just like how it is and what
Speaker 1: has to happen for whatever reason. These things are serving
Speaker 1: a purpose that they just don't know about, but Roche
Speaker 1: clearly does.
Speaker 2: Oh gosh. Okay.
Speaker 1: Now, of course, Giselle wasn't the only one of the
Speaker 1: group though, who was suffering at the hands of their
Speaker 1: supposed messiah. Roche subjected another member, Josie, to the a
Speaker 1: settling torch, the one that he liked to wave around
Speaker 1: so frivalently and threaten people with. He held the burning
Speaker 1: torch up to her flesh until her skin began to bubble.
Speaker 2: Oh my gosh.
Speaker 1: So this is a burning torch that is to weld metal.
Speaker 2: Wow, what does this fucking guy think he is?
Speaker 1: Oh, he thinks he's something He really does. Another member
Speaker 1: was giving birth for the first time, and in that
Speaker 1: vulnerable moment, he callously passed the torch across her stomach
Speaker 1: in the middle of her giving birth. He just runs
Speaker 1: the torch across her stomach.
Speaker 2: You're fucking kidding me.
Speaker 1: Another member, Jaquez, suffered a blow to the head with
Speaker 1: a blunt axe and his ribs were fractured by the
Speaker 1: aggressive and mercy swing of a wooden club. The brutality
Speaker 1: never got better, It only continued to worsen. A woman
Speaker 1: by the name of Nicole experienced a miscarriage due to
Speaker 1: the trauma of a beating from Roche. On a separate occasion,
Speaker 1: Roche even shot her in the shoulder with a three
Speaker 1: or three caliber rifle.
Speaker 2: Hmm, Okay, this is unbelievable.
Speaker 1: I told you this is a fucked up case.
Speaker 2: I can't even believe that the harm he is doing
Speaker 2: to these people.
Speaker 1: Well, we covered a lot in episode one in the
Speaker 1: first part of this, and I mean there were a
Speaker 1: lot of children getting injured and abused as well. But
Speaker 1: now that the children are gone, for whatever reason, it
Speaker 1: seems like he just is upping it even more, getting worse.
Speaker 1: I didn't think he could get worse.
Speaker 2: Yeah, but he is. That really hits me the whole,
Speaker 2: like giving birth and injuring her at the same time, Like,
Speaker 2: are you freaking kidding me?
Speaker 1: Yeah, that's what he did.
Speaker 2: That is so disturbing.
Speaker 1: You can't get any lower than this sick.
Speaker 2: Fuck And like I'm sure that was even his kid, right,
Speaker 2: So it's just like, yeah, most likely actual fuck.
Speaker 1: Yeah, he was constantly on a rampage. He was he
Speaker 1: was looking for ideas to torment abuse anyone for any
Speaker 1: fucking reason. H He didn't need a weapon either. Giselle
Speaker 1: fell victim to his steel toe boots, resulting in broken ribs.
Speaker 1: Claude endured methodical torment, including the deliberate spraining of his
Speaker 1: toes in a gruesome incidant where a piece of broken
Speaker 1: glass was used to slice open his arm. Roche extracted
Speaker 1: eleven of Claude's teeth with a pair of pliers despite
Speaker 1: having absolutely no dental issues whatsoever, and he commanded one
Speaker 1: of his wives to break Claude's legs with a sledgehammer.
Speaker 2: Oh man, that is so much abuse.
Speaker 1: He used vice grips as a torture method on Gabe,
Speaker 1: Gabrielle and esz L's nipples until they bled. Claude, in
Speaker 1: one horrifying incident, was hog tied and suspended from the
Speaker 1: ceiling for an hour while Roche ordered others of his
Speaker 1: wives and to shave off Claude's pubic hair and pour
Speaker 1: boiling water all over him. Cool Roche punched another member
Speaker 1: by the name of Solange brutally in the neck, knocking
Speaker 1: her out cold. Jaquez was ordered to inflict pain on
Speaker 1: Gabrielle by smashing her thigh with a sledgehammer, while Roche
Speaker 1: personally squeezed Gabrielle's hand in a vice and whipped her
Speaker 1: in the eye with a belt. Man it doesn't stop.
Speaker 1: The abuse extent into more sinister acts too. I'm sorry,
Speaker 1: I'm laughing that. It's just it's an uncomfortable thing.
Speaker 2: It's uncomprehendible.
Speaker 1: Really, I don't I don't know how to present this information. Yeah,
Speaker 1: I'm just like, it's so far beyond fucked.
Speaker 2: Mm hm, well you're yeah. I laugh often when I'm uncomfortable.
Speaker 2: It's a coping mechanism.
Speaker 1: It really is, honestly for me right now. Yeah, because
Speaker 1: this abuse went far more sinister in other acts too.
Speaker 1: For example, Roche was roast stuck a hypodermic needle into
Speaker 1: Gabrielle's back, containing an unknown concoction, and he, while it
Speaker 1: was in Gabrielle, began twisting the needle until the tip
Speaker 1: broke off underneath her skin.
Speaker 2: Oh my gosh, holy shit.
Speaker 1: Yeah. When I was researching that one, that's one of
Speaker 1: the ones I felt the most.
Speaker 2: Yeah. Okay, holy I I yeah, okay, Yeah, you were
Speaker 2: right when you said that you're gonna need a drink
Speaker 2: for this one.
Speaker 1: Yeah. My whiskey is almost gone already. M you good?
Speaker 2: Well, okay, the last episode, please remind me here he
Speaker 2: had he killed, he'd killed like a kid or a
Speaker 2: baby or something.
Speaker 1: Right, Yes, he had?
Speaker 2: And like, are none of these adults succumbing to these injuries?
Speaker 1: Not so much? No.
Speaker 2: Oh, I can't even believe what these people can endure
Speaker 2: like that.
Speaker 1: Yeah, you're right. There was some adults, at least one
Speaker 1: passing away as a result, but that is to come
Speaker 1: in this episode. Still we will talk on that, okay.
Speaker 1: Regarding Gabrielle, though with the hypodermic needle, he also further
Speaker 1: subjected her to torture by burning her breasts and genitalia
Speaker 1: with that same torch.
Speaker 3: Oh my, gosh.
Speaker 1: Jack has under orders cut off half of Gabrielle's left
Speaker 1: pinky finger with a pair of wire cutters, and her
Speaker 1: other fingers were broken with a board. Oh Roche struck
Speaker 1: and broke Slange's cheekbone when she was six months pregnant.
Speaker 1: The cruelty even extended to animals, as Roche in one situation,
Speaker 1: beat one of their horses to death with a chain.
Speaker 1: My god, there are literally no words I have that
Speaker 1: can truly describe this individual. Yeah, I can't. It's so
Speaker 1: fucked up.
Speaker 2: And the real fucked up thing though, that just came
Speaker 2: to my mind is like this is the shit that
Speaker 2: you're just able to find right like out there, Like
Speaker 2: how much more is there that like was forgotten or
Speaker 2: that they didn't want to, you know, say, or whatever, Like, Yeah,
Speaker 2: this is honestly as disturbing as it is. It's probably
Speaker 2: just like the tip of the iceberg.
Speaker 1: It really is. Yeah, And I can imagine, Okay, they're saying,
Speaker 1: in this situation, so and so got struck in the
Speaker 1: face and had their cheekbone broken. How many times were
Speaker 1: they struck in the face before the cheekbone was broken?
Speaker 1: Were they struck the day before the day before that,
Speaker 1: the day before that, and were they being struck for
Speaker 1: the last month or two in a row every morning,
Speaker 1: and then the one incident we're talking about is when
Speaker 1: they were hit and their bone broke.
Speaker 2: Yeah.
Speaker 1: Yeah, Like it's so fucking sick.
Speaker 2: It is really, really, really disturbing.
Speaker 1: Yeah. Yeah. Unfortunately, though, you are right, we are only
Speaker 1: scratching the surface because there is still more to come
Speaker 1: in this episode.
Speaker 2: Oh god, everything you say, I'm like, Okay, that's got
Speaker 2: to be it. That's got to be it. I'm going
Speaker 2: to pull the label off my fucking drink here because
Speaker 2: it's I'm just like, need something to do.
Speaker 1: That's your anxiety is getting to you. You need an outlet.
Speaker 1: I can't blame you.
Speaker 2: I need like a stress ball or something.
Speaker 1: Hey, if you guys are listening to this while you're
Speaker 1: sitting in your office or something, I can guarantee you
Speaker 1: probably are either a sitting back and you're like clenching
Speaker 1: your coffee mug or cup, or you are biting or
Speaker 1: chewing on a pen or fiddling with it fivorously, or
Speaker 1: you do have a stress ball in your hand. One
Speaker 1: of those three things.
Speaker 2: Why the shit do I not have one of those?
Speaker 2: We should get one of those for like a person listening,
Speaker 2: We really should. That's an amazing idea, that is, But to.
Speaker 1: Move on to say that we are only looking at
Speaker 1: the tip of the iceberg. Another incident, for example, was
Speaker 1: Gabrielle experienced a very horrifying medical incident when her uterus prolapsed,
Speaker 1: which is commonly caused as a result of childbirth. Rather
Speaker 1: than seeking professional medical help, she endured another one of
Speaker 1: Roche's makeshift attempts of medical surgeries, and in this case
Speaker 1: a correction including punching the uterus back inside and fashioning
Speaker 1: a wooden cone and trust to essentially plug her up.
Speaker 1: Oh yeah, her uterus was prolapsing, so he decided to
Speaker 1: punch it back in place, and when that didn't work,
Speaker 1: he used wood to basically cram it and hold it back.
Speaker 2: Wow, my jaw is like on the ground right now.
Speaker 1: I know. Now. She did run away to a woman's
Speaker 1: shelter at one point, but Gabrielle returned to the compound
Speaker 1: instead of seeking proper medical care. It took a year
Speaker 1: before she could undergo a partial hysterectomy at Ross Memorial
Speaker 1: Hospital in Lindsay, but she had to do so under
Speaker 1: one of Rosche's abstinence trips to Utah behind his back.
Speaker 2: Dang, that is just oh man. The fact that they
Speaker 2: just keep going back is just so it just like
Speaker 2: makes my heart hurt so bad.
Speaker 1: I can't and I'm not.
Speaker 2: Blaming them or anything, oh, definitely not, but it's just like, yikes,
Speaker 2: I would do anything to get them out of the situation.
Speaker 1: Well, I mean, like, all these things are so fucking disturbing,
Speaker 1: but the worst part of it is is that psychological
Speaker 1: control that Roche has over there. That's the biggest mind
Speaker 1: fuck to me. Like I can't fathom being in that
Speaker 1: situation and still this individual has that control. That is
Speaker 1: so disturbing to me that he has that power.
Speaker 2: Yeah, and again when he's doing things like this.
Speaker 1: Yeah, and again, I'm not blaming the individuals whatsoever. And
Speaker 1: as I mentioned that, we're going to try and like
Speaker 1: get a peek at their point of view. This is
Speaker 1: the moment that I have here. I actually have a
Speaker 1: letter that one of them wrote to Roche, so that
Speaker 1: goes like this, good day, Moses, my master. I would
Speaker 1: have liked to have talked to you yesterday evening, but
Speaker 1: I think it is preferable to write these things down
Speaker 1: rather than saying them for fear of talking too much.
Speaker 1: I am going to talk to you about the last
Speaker 1: fit of anger that your master exercised through you. I
Speaker 1: really believe that what you did doesn't come from you,
Speaker 1: but from someone much higher. For my part, I really
Speaker 1: believe that you were possessed by a very powerful spirit.
Speaker 1: That's what I saw in what you did, the throwing
Speaker 1: of the knife, the rifle shot, the harm done to many.
Speaker 1: My eye saw things that went beyond them. My body
Speaker 1: is very afraid of all these things. I understand it
Speaker 1: very well because of the law of death in which
Speaker 1: it exists. But within myself I am well. I am
Speaker 1: very well and very happy to belong to a real
Speaker 1: mass her who himself belongs to the only real master
Speaker 1: of life. Love. Rachelle in Brackets aka Solange Boillard.
Speaker 2: Hmm. I was not when you said that you were
Speaker 2: going to read a letter. I wasn't expecting that for
Speaker 2: some reason.
Speaker 1: So this is the individual who had the knife thrown
Speaker 1: at her, Yeah, gash in the boiling water and the
Speaker 1: iron prod and then the wound packed, who ran away
Speaker 1: to come back and was shot in the shoulder with
Speaker 1: a rifle and I want to touch a one specific
Speaker 1: thing here. The very first sentence, it goes like this,
Speaker 1: I would have liked to have talked to you yesterday evening,
Speaker 1: but I think it's preferable to write these things down
Speaker 1: rather than saying them for fear of talking too much. Yea,
Speaker 1: talking too much.
Speaker 2: Yeah, like she to go in punished if she had
Speaker 2: said all of that, which isn't even a long letter
Speaker 2: to him, not Yeah.
Speaker 1: So holy fucking that alone. And then of course the
Speaker 1: whole point of her saying that there's another spirit acting
Speaker 1: through you, it's not you doing it. I feel very
Speaker 1: blessed to be serving you because you serve.
Speaker 2: A higher being.
Speaker 1: Yeah, yeah, Like, holy fuck. That is so fucked up. Yeah,
Speaker 1: that he has them believing this, even after all the
Speaker 1: things he's doing to them. I feel so bad for
Speaker 1: these individuals because they want so bad to serve their
Speaker 1: their savior, their Lord, their their religious idol. I understand
Speaker 1: individuals have their religion and that's what they believe is
Speaker 1: going on, is it's simply God. And I feel so
Speaker 1: bad that Roche or Rock or whatever the fuck this
Speaker 1: douchebag's name is is taking that away from them and
Speaker 1: replacing it with this horror that they don't even know
Speaker 1: is happening.
Speaker 2: Yeah, it's so hard to even know what to say.
Speaker 2: That letter, for some reason has me just a little bit.
Speaker 2: I don't even have words, like just heart broken.
Speaker 1: Yeah, that's the best way I can play.
Speaker 2: Like you almost just need to sit there for a
Speaker 2: few minutes and just digest that. But then I feel
Speaker 2: like if you think about it too much, you just
Speaker 2: like ball your face off.
Speaker 1: I don't know. I could read this letter every day
Speaker 1: for the rest of my life, and I don't know
Speaker 1: if I could fully ever digest this letter.
Speaker 2: No, no, no, you probably couldn't, Like I mean, we couldn't.
Speaker 2: There's no way, No, there's no way.
Speaker 1: I could never put myself in their shoes. I could
Speaker 1: never understand the pain, the power, the faith that went
Speaker 1: into this. Never could never. Yeah, it baffles me, and
Speaker 1: I feel so bad for the individuals.
Speaker 2: Yeah, it's bizarre that someone could possess this much power
Speaker 2: over someone else, It really is. Yeah, it's mind blowing.
Speaker 1: Okay, well we're going to carry on away from the
Speaker 1: letter here though. Now we're into the fall of nineteen
Speaker 1: eighty eight, and this marked a very tragic and terrifying
Speaker 1: episode in Solange's life. Solange is the one who wrote
Speaker 1: the letter. Convinced by Roche that something was wrong with
Speaker 1: her liver, Solange was manipulated into believing that she needed
Speaker 1: on operation.
Speaker 2: Oh no, and this is like a big one.
Speaker 1: Yeah, we're talking liver, We're talking yeah.
Speaker 2: Yeah.
Speaker 1: So, during an afternoon of excessive drinking, Roche's behavior took
Speaker 1: another violent turn as he began strangling the women in
Speaker 1: the commune, claiming that their breath belonged to him. Holy shit,
Speaker 1: And in a disturbing sequence of events, he now adorned
Speaker 1: himself with jewelry and announced his intention to quote treat Solange.
Speaker 2: Oh no, oh no.
Speaker 1: He led the group to their bakery, where he cleared
Speaker 1: a table and instructed Solange to undress and lay down.
Speaker 1: He inserted a tube into her rectum and used a
Speaker 1: mixture of molasses, oil, and water as an enema fluid.
Speaker 1: This ordeal lasted for half an hour, during which Roche
Speaker 1: encouraged Solange not to be embarrassed about losing control of
Speaker 1: her bodily functions. I mean, after all, she is going
Speaker 1: through an enema here with some terrible fucking fluids. And
Speaker 1: he then proceeded to press and punch her stomach, insisting
Speaker 1: that she moved her hands when she dared tried to
Speaker 1: fend him off and fight back. Adding to the cruelty,
Speaker 1: he inserted a tube down her throat and instructed to
Speaker 1: blow and suck on the other end of the tube.
Speaker 2: What the shit.
Speaker 1: Then, with a knife in his hand, Roche made a
Speaker 1: five inch vertical incision on Solange's stomach, just below her
Speaker 1: ribs on the right side. He took his hand and
Speaker 1: reached into the incision with his fingers and pulled out
Speaker 1: a strip of tissue approximately four inches long and a
Speaker 1: quarter of an inch thick. He tore it off and declared, there,
Speaker 1: you're going to be all right, as another member of
Speaker 1: the group was tasked with sewing her wound closed.
Speaker 2: Oh my gosh, he and he's doing this and she's
Speaker 2: just like awake.
Speaker 1: Yeah, she's awake. She has no form of any sort
Speaker 1: of like painkillers, nothing.
Speaker 2: Holy okay, that makes me feel ill.
Speaker 1: Time well. Following this quote procedure if you will, Solange
Speaker 1: was sent back to the cabin, where Roche ordered her
Speaker 1: to take a warm bath filled with cherry. This only
Speaker 1: aggravated her condition, so Roche then subjected her to a
Speaker 1: cold bath instead, because if the first one didn't work, well,
Speaker 1: this one will. And upon her taking the cold bath,
Speaker 1: she then would return to bed, and Solange began bleeding
Speaker 1: from her mouth and would pass away.
Speaker 2: Oh my gosh. No.
Speaker 1: Yes. Medical professionals later determined that Solange's cause of death
Speaker 1: was acute pertonitis, which is an inflammation of the pertinonium
Speaker 1: resulting from digestive fluids leaking into the abdominal cavity. It's
Speaker 1: assumed what was cut from what Roche cut was part
Speaker 1: of her intestine.
Speaker 2: Well, yeah, because I was just like, what the sh
Speaker 2: did he pull out?
Speaker 1: We don't know, It's just that's assumed. But it was
Speaker 1: some part clearly of her digestive.
Speaker 2: Track, something that like her body needed.
Speaker 1: He literally pulled out an organ, ripped a chunk off,
Speaker 1: shoved it back in, sewed her up.
Speaker 2: O oh man, I.
Speaker 3: Am so appalled, dear, okay, okay, yeah, her poor body,
Speaker 3: what it endured, Oh my gosh, for absolutely like no reason.
Speaker 1: Yeah, when she was completely fine.
Speaker 2: Yeah, Oh my gosh, Oh my gosh.
Speaker 1: Now. The aftermath of Solange's death plunged Roche into a
Speaker 1: state of despair, leading him to attempt suicide. In various ways. Initially,
Speaker 1: he implored Jaquez to shoot him, then he tried an
Speaker 1: overdose on Tyler Know and ultimately attempted to drown himself. However,
Speaker 1: in a letter later addressed to the spirit of the deceased,
Speaker 1: Roche declared a peculiar experience where a mysterious force intervened,
Speaker 1: freeing him from his binds. During the drowning attempt, he
Speaker 1: emerged from the waters exclaiming, God doesn't want me to die. Yeah, sure,
Speaker 1: that sounds pretty fucking convenient to me. Yeah. So, following
Speaker 1: this ordeal, he contacted doctor Jess gost Beck and traveled
Speaker 1: to Utah in October of sixteenth. October sixteenth of nineteen
Speaker 1: eighty eight, in a meeting with doctor goes Back, Roche
Speaker 1: claimed that Slange had died suddenly in the woods due
Speaker 1: to a spontaneously erupted vein in her esophagus.
Speaker 2: Oh my gosh, could that have been any more false?
Speaker 1: Right now? Doctor goes Beck reassured Roche that there was
Speaker 1: nothing he could have done to save her, but Roche,
Speaker 1: guided by his strange dreams, asserted that God has designated
Speaker 1: doctor gos Beck as his guide, and in these dreams,
Speaker 1: Roche claimed Solange was inside his body with her form
Speaker 1: emerging from his ejaculate. So he and doctor, you know what,
Speaker 1: fuck doctor, it's just goes back to me. I'm not
Speaker 1: gonna call him a fucking doctor anymore because fuck that.
Speaker 1: This person's fucked too. The two of them them concocted
Speaker 1: a fantastical belief that Solange was to basically experience a
Speaker 1: reverse birth through the belly of a male, mirroring the
Speaker 1: birth of the womb from a female basically. So Doctor's like, oh,
Speaker 1: you couldn't stop the death. Oh yeah, sure you could
Speaker 1: give birth to I mean, I mean, maybe maybe I'm
Speaker 1: reading too much into it. Maybe this doctor is like
Speaker 1: talking completely hypothetical here and is like, maybe it's being
Speaker 1: a little more therapeutic. But Roche literally is thinking he
Speaker 1: can rebirth Solange just as paralleling birthing through a female
Speaker 1: l womb.
Speaker 2: Because I was like, what the fuck are you talking
Speaker 2: about here? I was so confused, but that I was like,
Speaker 2: that's not what it is, But that is what it is.
Speaker 1: That's yeah, that's exactly what it is. He was now
Speaker 1: convinced that he was basically pregnant with Solange. Yeah. He
Speaker 1: even actually went and performed a post mortem marriage by proxy,
Speaker 1: officially recognizing the union between him and Solange.
Speaker 2: Oh my gosh, this shit is just getting worse and worse.
Speaker 1: I told you this is fucked up.
Speaker 2: Holy what are you doing to us here? This is okay?
Speaker 1: I fucking told you. Okay, are you good? You're crossing
Speaker 1: your arms down.
Speaker 2: And like, I know, well, I've like been my like this.
Speaker 2: I've been putting my nails into my hands, like I
Speaker 2: this is just okay, I just am. I'm going through
Speaker 2: a lot of emotions right now, Okay.
Speaker 1: Fair enough. I mean, it's just so, it's so messed up.
Speaker 1: Like I haven't no other words. I have no words
Speaker 1: at all to describe. I have nothing, like I don't
Speaker 1: know what to say. I literally don't.
Speaker 2: I don't even know how you went about researching this.
Speaker 2: I don't think. I don't even know if I would
Speaker 2: physically be able to so like, good on you that
Speaker 2: that is something.
Speaker 1: Thank you. I appreciate that it was not an easy task.
Speaker 1: I mean, every episode takes its toll, don't get me wrong,
Speaker 1: But then there are.
Speaker 2: Some that are more so, Like I would be stress eating.
Speaker 2: I probably would have gained ten pounds researching this episode.
Speaker 1: Well, there's things that we research and it becomes almost expected,
Speaker 1: it becomes almost the normal. When you're looking at true crime,
Speaker 1: and anyone out there who listens to true crime or
Speaker 1: researches or anything on a regular basis, there's murder. Is
Speaker 1: it's normal in the true crime world. Doesn't make it
Speaker 1: less horrific, don't get me wrong, but you are caught
Speaker 1: off guard when something, all of a sudden is worse
Speaker 1: than a murder. It's like, what the fuck? H So, yeah,
Speaker 1: and this one is it's beyond messed up by any means.
Speaker 2: Yeah, it's like I've already said, it's it's literally uncomprehendible
Speaker 2: what he did to these people.
Speaker 1: Yeah. Now, once Roche returned from Utah to see this
Speaker 1: doctor or whatever, he ordered Claude to exhume Solange's body
Speaker 1: from her grave, and Gabrielle was instructed to open Solange's
Speaker 1: body and pour vinegar on her internal organs to deter
Speaker 1: worms before reburying her.
Speaker 2: My gosh, she's even passed away and he's not even
Speaker 2: leaving her alone.
Speaker 1: The plans didn't end there. A few days later, he
Speaker 1: had them redig up Slane.
Speaker 2: Oh my god.
Speaker 1: Once more, Roche instructed Jaquez to drill a hole in
Speaker 1: Solange's skull, and then Roche then began to masturbate into
Speaker 1: the opening, ejaculating into the whole of her skull, all
Speaker 1: in the misguided belief that he could somehow rebirth or
Speaker 1: bring her back to life.
Speaker 2: Okay, I'm sorry, but this guy is an fucking idiot. Yes,
Speaker 2: I thought that I was angry, and now I'm just
Speaker 2: so beyond pissed that I don't even think I'm gonna
Speaker 2: be of sleep tonight. So thanks a lot, dude. Sorry,
Speaker 2: I am so mad right now, rightfully, So don't get
Speaker 2: mad at me. I know you look scared. Wow, but
Speaker 2: that just that is just too much. Like this person
Speaker 2: is deceased. What the fuck is he doing?
Speaker 1: Yeah?
Speaker 2: And he is the one that made her deceased. Yeah,
Speaker 2: and now he's doing this to her.
Speaker 1: Yeah.
Speaker 2: Okay, Okay, I'm not okay.
Speaker 1: Neither am I trust me. I don't think anyone listening
Speaker 1: to this right now is okay either. Okay, again, excuse
Speaker 1: our laughter because we are so uncomfortable with this episode.
Speaker 1: You like, it's beyond ridiculous.
Speaker 2: Yeah. Well, and poor Ben is now breakwor life.
Speaker 1: I kind of am now his attempt at rebirth or
Speaker 1: bringing her back to life, however he wants to freaking
Speaker 1: phrase it. His plan, of course, didn't work, and initially
Speaker 1: Roche was before all this. Roche was informed that Solange's
Speaker 1: wish was to be cremated, reportedly, and he eventually reluctantly agreed,
Speaker 1: and the group did burn burn Solange's body.
Speaker 2: How would they have done that? They don't have that
Speaker 2: means to do that, did they?
Speaker 1: I'm assuming just a bonfire, and by the sounds of
Speaker 1: the following information it makes sense. So before the cremation,
Speaker 1: one of Solange's ribs were removed at Roche's request, which
Speaker 1: he kept in a leather wrapping as a morbid keepsake.
Speaker 1: Then after the cremation, each member of the group took
Speaker 1: some of her bones for themselves in memorial. Roche collected
Speaker 1: bone fragments in a jar and filled it with olive oil,
Speaker 1: which he regularly used as a misguided attempt to bring
Speaker 1: Solange back to life, continuously through his twisted notion of
Speaker 1: rebirth that he still thought might happen. I guess so,
Speaker 1: I'm assuming it was just on a large fire, because
Speaker 1: they were able to collect fragments of her remain still. Hmm, Okay,
Speaker 1: is that label almost off?
Speaker 2: Well, I would be ripping it off right now, but
Speaker 2: I'm trying not to make a lot of noise.
Speaker 1: So fair. Now, Roche, being this all powerful being, his entity,
Speaker 1: his Messiah being Moses, would soon first meet its first
Speaker 1: ever act of real defiance.
Speaker 2: I've been waiting for this for some time now.
Speaker 1: Roche was trying to entrust his next soon to be
Speaker 1: born child, conceived by Francine, to the care of a
Speaker 1: man by the name of Alex Joseph to prevent childcare
Speaker 1: and family services from intervening. Okay, however, Alex started an argument.
Speaker 1: This argument ensued between Alex and Roche over the treatment
Speaker 1: of his wives, and Alex successfully stood up to the
Speaker 1: group's quote Messiah.
Speaker 2: He wasn't part of the group though, right.
Speaker 1: I believe he was. Okay, he might have been. Maybe
Speaker 1: he's not. That's not too clear to me. I'm not certain.
Speaker 1: Maybe a previous member. I don't know. He clearly has
Speaker 1: inside knowledge yet, because he knows the treatment right, So
Speaker 1: I'm not too sure the relationship of Alex with the
Speaker 1: group intimately. But now, no one, regardless has stood up
Speaker 1: to Roache before, and this momentarily momentary display of defiance
Speaker 1: left a very large impression on Roch's wives, showing that
Speaker 1: he wasn't actually this all powerful being. Instead, it portrayed
Speaker 1: him rather human okay. As a result, group member Josie
Speaker 1: Pellettier successfully left the cult during the winter of eighty
Speaker 1: eight and eighty nine.
Speaker 2: Nice Yes Nice.
Speaker 1: On July twenty sixth of nineteen eighty eight, intoxicated as usual,
Speaker 1: more violent tendencies escalated. Jisselle, Claude, Francine, and Maurice managed
Speaker 1: to sneak away into the bush to hide, but Gabrielle
Speaker 1: was not so fortunate. Roche screamed and ordered her to
Speaker 1: place her hand on the kitchen table, and then then
Speaker 1: he rained down a knife and stabbed her in the
Speaker 1: hand with a hunting knife, pinning her hand directly to
Speaker 1: the wooden table.
Speaker 2: Oh my gosh.
Speaker 1: Blood began to pour from her hand immediately, as Roche
Speaker 1: just nonchalantly grabbed another beer and left the room. Jeeus,
Speaker 1: Gabrielle forced herself to remain conscious, and after staying there
Speaker 1: with a knife pinning her hand down for forty five minutes,
Speaker 1: Roche returned to the room. He noticed her arm had
Speaker 1: now turned blue, clearly from a lack of blood in
Speaker 1: the extremity, so he fetched a carpenter knife and began
Speaker 1: cutting away at the flesh on her arm, halfway between
Speaker 1: her elbow and shoulder, ultimately cutting the flesh away all
Speaker 1: the way to the bone.
Speaker 2: Oh.
Speaker 1: He then dislodged the hunting knife from Gabrielle's hand, took
Speaker 1: her over to the stump on the kitchen floor, and
Speaker 1: used a dull meat cleaver and swung at the exposed bone.
Speaker 1: First swing missed, but the second struck the bone and
Speaker 1: broke it in half, amputating Gabrielle's arm entirely.
Speaker 2: Wow Okay.
Speaker 1: Remarkably, Gabrielle somehow endured this hole ordeal, and the following
Speaker 1: day she left and sought refuge at a woman's shelter.
Speaker 1: Yeah wow, But she returned to the compound at Chaquez's request,
Speaker 1: urging her to return. Days later, Roche and again another
Speaker 1: drunken state, decided that Gabrielle's stump was now gangrenous gangrene.
Speaker 1: Using scissors, he cut off the infected flesh, but he
Speaker 1: didn't stop there. He also took a chunk from her
Speaker 1: breast for unknown reasons. In a further act of cruelty,
Speaker 1: he struck her on the head with the side of
Speaker 1: an axe, leaving a very large gash. She managed to
Speaker 1: run once again and fled into the bush, but she
Speaker 1: ultimately would black out.
Speaker 2: And I.
Speaker 1: She regained consciousness two days later.
Speaker 2: Two days Lakers still.
Speaker 1: Laying on the forest floor, and discovered that insects had
Speaker 1: now laid eggs in her open wounds.
Speaker 2: Uh huh.
Speaker 1: Still, she returned back to the compound.
Speaker 2: This has to be she has to get away. At
Speaker 2: this point, She's not going to live.
Speaker 1: She once again found Roche drunk and eager to perform
Speaker 1: yet another operations.
Speaker 2: Oh my gosh.
Speaker 1: The acetylene torch was used to cut a piece from
Speaker 1: the drive shaft of a junk car, which Roche heated
Speaker 1: until red hot and pressed against Gabrielle stump where her
Speaker 1: arm once was. Finally, she had enough and she left
Speaker 1: the cult behind.
Speaker 2: Wow, I on assume stock that she lived, so am
Speaker 2: I like, that's that's something. Yeah, I for sure thought
Speaker 2: that she was gonna pass away.
Speaker 1: Yeah, I thought the same. But she endured so much
Speaker 1: and she finally left the call behind, and her escape
Speaker 1: marked a very large turning point in nightmarish saga. Of
Speaker 1: the antil kids.
Speaker 2: Okay, good, and.
Speaker 1: Because of that she is our badass of the day.
Speaker 1: No shit, I mean, I can't imagine surviving that and
Speaker 1: then going back, going back because of your faith being
Speaker 1: that strong, and then finally still surviving enough to be
Speaker 1: the one to leave and have this becoming the turning point.
Speaker 2: Yeah. Wow.
Speaker 1: On August sixteenth, nineteen eighty nine, she reached a hospital
Speaker 1: and concocted a story explaining her missing arms. She fabricated,
Speaker 1: didn't explain that it was roach or anything like that.
Speaker 1: The police were called, leading to a filing of an
Speaker 1: aggravated assault charge against Roche, so the police went to
Speaker 1: find them. However, when the police arrived at the compound
Speaker 1: on August nineteenth with a warrant for Roche's rest, they
Speaker 1: found it deserted. Roche knew what was coming, so he,
Speaker 1: along with Jaquez, Chantelle and Nicole, with the two youngest
Speaker 1: babies that had now been born, had fled to Quebec.
Speaker 1: The others took Gabrielle's lead and had returned to their families,
Speaker 1: breaking free from Roche's manipulative hold.
Speaker 2: Okay, I'm glad most of them. So he has what
Speaker 2: three women and two kids still with.
Speaker 1: Him though, right, I believe so, yes, Okay. So it
Speaker 1: took six weeks for the police to locate Roche. But
Speaker 1: on October sixth, nineteen eighty nine, the day Giselle decided
Speaker 1: to finally disclose Solange's death to the authorities, Roche was
Speaker 1: apprehended by the police. Good everyone, not just Roche. Everyone
Speaker 1: pleaded guilty to charges related to Gabrielle's amputation. Roche received
Speaker 1: a twelve year sentence, later reduced to ten years due
Speaker 1: to his claimed quote genuine remorse and concern for the victim.
Speaker 2: Oh my gosh, that is not even close to enough.
Speaker 1: Jaquez received five years, Chantelle received two less one day,
Speaker 1: and Nicole eighteen months. While facing additional charges for first
Speaker 1: degree murder, Roche's trial for second degree murder was pursued
Speaker 1: when insufficient evidence of premeditation was found. Now it was
Speaker 1: at this time very obvious that more charges were to
Speaker 1: come as more and more evidence and accounts of Roch's
Speaker 1: actions were being discovered. So Roach's lawyer did the only
Speaker 1: thing that he could do. He negotiated a deal, a
Speaker 1: deal where Roche would plead guilty to second degree murder
Speaker 1: charge in exchange for no further charges.
Speaker 2: Oh my gosh. Oh, this case is exhausting.
Speaker 1: That's one word for it.
Speaker 2: I'm exhausted.
Speaker 1: Yeah, this is a very large burden, even just to hear, yeah,
Speaker 1: let alone to be a part of. So the deal
Speaker 1: occurred on January eighteenth, nineteen ninety three. Roche their Day
Speaker 1: was sentenced to life in prison, with parole eligibility set
Speaker 1: for nineteen ninety nine, only six years later. Are you good?
Speaker 2: I'm good? But I'm like, did this guy get the
Speaker 2: fuck out of jail or not? Did he like? He didn't? Right,
Speaker 2: he didn't get out of jail, right, there's no way.
Speaker 1: Well, we'll touch on that here in a second.
Speaker 2: Okay.
Speaker 1: Now, there were individuals such as Francine Chantelle Nicole known
Speaker 1: as Holga, Ruth, and Deborah respectively. They remained loyal.
Speaker 2: To Roche wow.
Speaker 1: Even having conjugal visits with him.
Speaker 2: Oh god, Okay, okay.
Speaker 1: Other survivors attempted to adapt to a new life without him.
Speaker 1: Roche's numerous children, numbering over twenty, were dispersed among foster
Speaker 1: homes across Canada and the United States.
Speaker 2: Those poor kids, Can you imagine that being your father?
Speaker 2: My head hurts. I'm a headache now.
Speaker 1: Now. Interestingly, and very disturbingly enough, despite the horrific nature
Speaker 1: of Roch's crimes, prison staff spoke very highly of him,
Speaker 1: describing him as very charismatic cool, which we know from
Speaker 1: any fucking psychopath out there.
Speaker 2: Yeah, it makes sense.
Speaker 1: Case in point, I mean the classic, the cliche Ted Bundy.
Speaker 2: Right, yes, but he sucks.
Speaker 1: We all know he sucks exactly. Now. In two thousand
Speaker 1: and two, Roche would officially apply for his parole, but
Speaker 1: his request was denied due to being assessed as a
Speaker 1: high risk to people.
Speaker 2: You don't say, yeah, I.
Speaker 1: Do say I very well do say. Now. In two
Speaker 1: thousand and nine, he attempted to sell his jail cell artwork.
Speaker 1: He's sitting there and his cell doing some artwork on it. Well,
Speaker 1: he's trying to sell it on a murder themed auction
Speaker 1: website catering to true crime enthusiasts. Oh so true crime memorabilia.
Speaker 1: You know, maybe document signed by Ted Bundy for example.
Speaker 1: We just spoke him already, so we'll just say Ted
Speaker 1: Bundy signed court documents or something like that. Right, So
Speaker 1: he's trying to sell his own artwork on this website.
Speaker 2: Which is so disturbing because people would buy that.
Speaker 1: For sure, Yeah they would, But the attempt to profit
Speaker 1: from his crimes was denied as artwork was blocked from
Speaker 1: leaving the prison.
Speaker 2: Good Yeah.
Speaker 1: As the final piece to the puzzle, the chapter of Roche,
Speaker 1: their day would finally come to an end on February
Speaker 1: twenty sixth in two Thy eleven, before he ever had
Speaker 1: the opportunity to see parole or the outside world, Roche's
Speaker 1: cellmate approached him and stabbed him in the neck repeatedly
Speaker 1: with a makeshift shank, killing him behind bars. After the attack,
Speaker 1: the roommate casually walked to the guard station, handed over
Speaker 1: the weapon, and declared, quote, that piece of shit is
Speaker 1: down the range. Here's the knife. I've sliced him up.
Speaker 1: Roche was discovered dead near his cell at the age
Speaker 1: of sixty three.
Speaker 2: And that guy just didn't give a fuck. He was like, fuck,
Speaker 2: this just needs to end.
Speaker 1: Pretty.
Speaker 2: It's basically his thought process there.
Speaker 1: I think, so wow, and that is the case. That
Speaker 1: is the story. That is the cult known as the
Speaker 1: ant Hill Kids.
Speaker 2: Huh. I feel like wow, that was a ride and
Speaker 2: a half. I feel right now like my like, my
Speaker 2: chest is tight, my eyes feel like they could start crying.
Speaker 2: I don't even know why, because the end of that
Speaker 2: was just such just so much mixed emotions there. Oh
Speaker 2: my gosh.
Speaker 1: Yeah, that's about how I feel too, It's so fucked up.
Speaker 2: Wow, what is what did you say to the guard?
Speaker 2: Can you say that again? Please? I need to hear
Speaker 2: that again.
Speaker 1: Okay, So the quote is that piece of shit is
Speaker 1: down on the range. Here's the knife. I've sliced them up.
Speaker 2: WHOA not a single fuck given? Yeah, huh. I mean,
Speaker 2: but the thing is, if it wasn't for that guy,
Speaker 2: like he would have got out.
Speaker 1: Of jail for sure, probably would have.
Speaker 2: And I can only imagine what would have happened. Yeah,
Speaker 2: because he still had followers too.
Speaker 1: He did, Yeah, he very much so did. And I
Speaker 1: mean a life sentence is not it's not a person's life.
Speaker 1: It's not for the rest of your life. Like you
Speaker 1: can get out on a life sentence very much so easily,
Speaker 1: totally you serve that time you're still out well.
Speaker 2: And yeah, and they were already saying that he was
Speaker 2: doing good in there, so like I'm sure they'd been like, yeah,
Speaker 2: you know, he was an angel in jail, like he's
Speaker 2: he's good.
Speaker 1: Yeah, And I mean like he was denied parole in
Speaker 1: what was it two thousand and two when he was
Speaker 1: up eligible for parole in nineteen ninety nine, so he
Speaker 1: was denied his parole, then give him a few more years, sure, yeah,
Speaker 1: probably freaking try it again and probably get it because.
Speaker 2: Yeah, like he really wasn't very old when he died
Speaker 2: sixty three, So I mean, the chances are very high
Speaker 2: that he would have gotten out of there when he was,
Speaker 2: you know, at a still reasonable age or whatever. Yeah,
Speaker 2: but I'm actually surprised that he did stay in jail
Speaker 2: that long.
Speaker 1: A little bit, it's same because we've seen a lot
Speaker 1: of people with more sentences get out sooner.
Speaker 2: Yeah. Wow, that was that was something.
Speaker 1: That was definitely something.
Speaker 2: I am going to have some cheese and crackers now,
Speaker 2: just comfort food. Well before this, I was like, oh,
Speaker 2: I don't need a snack, but now I do you
Speaker 2: know that that was just that was unbelievable.
Speaker 1: Do you need a hug?
Speaker 2: Now?
Speaker 1: Okay?
Speaker 2: I love you too, don't I don't think it's a
Speaker 2: hug that I need. I don't know what I need. Wow,
Speaker 2: you probably need a hug after researching that.
Speaker 1: Yeah, I'm honestly I feel like you know, when you
Speaker 1: like take a deep breath and you exhale after like
Speaker 1: a major like stressful event or like you're super like
Speaker 1: angry about something, there's that like just like weight off
Speaker 1: your shoulder almost every time you do it. That's how
Speaker 1: I felt all fucking day.
Speaker 2: Yeah. Yeah, yeah, okay, I mean it's it's it's insane
Speaker 2: that like this. It's good we covered that, you covered
Speaker 2: this or whatever, but that's also like crazy to me
Speaker 2: that this was Canadian. For some reason, I.
Speaker 1: Can't believe I've never heard of this growing up.
Speaker 2: Yeah, because we would have been alive at this time.
Speaker 1: Well, I mean I was born and we we were
Speaker 1: both born in eighty eight, so he was apprehended when
Speaker 1: was it it was eighty nine, was it? Or no,
Speaker 1: it was later than that.
Speaker 2: But still he would have had it been in the
Speaker 2: news and stuff when like his parole was coming exactly
Speaker 2: and when he died and stuff. When he died, we
Speaker 2: definitely like we were it's surprising we didn't. Maybe we did,
Speaker 2: and we just you know didn't look at it.
Speaker 1: We're kids, We you know, we don't know sort of thing. Yeah, yeah,
Speaker 1: it's hard to say.
Speaker 2: Wow, that is wild.
Speaker 1: Yeah. October sixth nineteen eighty nine, so he was apprehended
Speaker 1: when we were one year old, but.
Speaker 2: Not that we would have known at that point. But
Speaker 2: you know, it's I'm just surprised that I don't remember
Speaker 2: this case in the news and stuff.
Speaker 1: Yeah, fair enough. Okay, Well, I think we're gonna go
Speaker 1: eat some cheese and crackers and pickles and pick at
Speaker 1: cheese crack crackers and pickles, crack cheese cracking. No, definitely
Speaker 1: not that. We're gonna go eat some cheese, crackers and pickles.
Speaker 1: And to our friends in the United States of America,
Speaker 1: you got Thanksgiving coming up here for a couple of days.
Speaker 1: We want to wish you a very happy Thanksgiving. Yes,
Speaker 1: hopefully everyone out there is not too traumatized by this case.
Speaker 1: We appreciate you sticking through to the end Part one
Speaker 1: in part two, if you want to check out our
Speaker 1: social links, they're all in the description of the podcast.
Speaker 1: If you want to check out our other podcasts or
Speaker 1: our sister podcast, if you will. Fearful Jacko hosts that
Speaker 1: every Wednesday he comes out with a new episode. So
Speaker 1: tomorrow he's got a new episode coming out. Just go
Speaker 1: check it out. Yeah, have you ever heard of the
Speaker 1: Highway of Tears.
Speaker 2: I absolutely have.
Speaker 1: Yeah, because Jack was talking about that. Wow, so go
Speaker 1: check it out. Yeah we're gonna beat cheese and crackers.
Speaker 3: Now, h Yeah.
Speaker 2: I mean it was worth it was worth staying for
Speaker 2: this part two like this was. I mean, I'm I'm
Speaker 2: glad I heard it, but I'm glad I didn't or
Speaker 2: what the fuck I don't even I can't even speak.
Speaker 2: So until next time, like we gotta go here.
Speaker 1: Until next time, stay wicked