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<v Speaker 1>So Friday we went on a solstice to Pilot Mountain.

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<v Speaker 1>Did you get to see the shadow the pyramid shadow?

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<v Speaker 2>Yes, through the crowd, I was able to see it.

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<v Speaker 3>Yeah, And I was tempted to just start like pushing

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<v Speaker 3>people aside, but then I was afraid some of them

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<v Speaker 3>would fall off the precipice and that is, yeah, that

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<v Speaker 3>I didn't have that. I didn't want to be responsible

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<v Speaker 3>for that. But yeah, I was able to see parts

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<v Speaker 3>of it through the crowd, right.

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<v Speaker 1>Yeah, so that's as far as it goes, and then

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<v Speaker 1>it comes back for the equinox, and that's where it's

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<v Speaker 1>a perfect pyramid shadow, just right on an east west axis.

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<v Speaker 2>Yeah. So what what was kind of your impression? More?

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<v Speaker 1>Is Randall Carlson the human being to being on a

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<v Speaker 1>sacred mountain like that?

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<v Speaker 2>And as a human being? Okay, that's you know, not

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<v Speaker 2>the you know? Are you? I guess maybe I did. No,

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<v Speaker 2>that's good.

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<v Speaker 3>I like that because yeah, most of the time I

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<v Speaker 3>am a functional human being exactly most of the time.

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<v Speaker 1>The year, but you're also the legendary and yeah, and okay.

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<v Speaker 2>So let me put this. I was very impressed. I

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<v Speaker 2>knew a Pilot Mountain.

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<v Speaker 3>I knew of it, but I didn't know much about

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<v Speaker 3>it until I got your book last year. And then

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<v Speaker 3>once I got your book and started looking at it,

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<v Speaker 3>and this is fascinating, right, I need to go see

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<v Speaker 3>it for myself. So this was my first excursion that

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<v Speaker 3>I actually was able to see the mountain firsthand.

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<v Speaker 2>And I'm very imputing.

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<v Speaker 3>I don't you know, I kind of have an explanation

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<v Speaker 3>of its origin, but I'm not one hundred percent convinced

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<v Speaker 3>that I really got it, you know, got the whole picture.

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<v Speaker 2>I'm sure there's things there that I have not picked

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<v Speaker 2>up on.

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<v Speaker 3>And we know that it was a what was it

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<v Speaker 3>called the Cherokee They had.

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<v Speaker 1>The jomy ok they called it, yeah, yeah, but they

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<v Speaker 1>meant it's the rocks that the stone faces are the guides.

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<v Speaker 1>The Europeans picked that up as it's a landmark, and

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<v Speaker 1>I'm sure I could see a chief or a medicine

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<v Speaker 1>man saying, oh yeah, it's a great guy, and like

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<v Speaker 1>the Europeans just going, well, I don't even understand what.

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<v Speaker 2>You're talking about here.

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<v Speaker 1>It's a stone, you know, But yeah, Yona, I've been

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<v Speaker 1>in trouble about the man made versus natural For the

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<v Speaker 1>stone faces and Yona kind of up that and doubled

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<v Speaker 1>down and said they're alive and they're guardians. Then then

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<v Speaker 1>they're watching us and they want to make sure we

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<v Speaker 1>are doing the right things the right way, and they

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<v Speaker 1>will come out and correct people if they don't.

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<v Speaker 2>So they will come out, Yeah, so they will.

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<v Speaker 1>They look like other Cherokee, and they will interact with people.

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<v Speaker 2>Interesting, and when you do.

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<v Speaker 1>A fission quest, if you fast for five days, you

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<v Speaker 1>can hear them, and then if you fast for seven days,

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<v Speaker 1>they will come out and talk to you.

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<v Speaker 2>Really. Yeah, that's that's the oral history.

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<v Speaker 1>And I thought it was really cool the way you

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<v Speaker 1>started yesterday with the Native America in oral history. And

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<v Speaker 1>I kind of feel the same way about the about

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<v Speaker 1>the Harry what was it, Carlton, George Catland, that's it?

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<v Speaker 3>Okatland. Yeah, Yeah, very interesting, isn't it.

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<v Speaker 2>Yeah?

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<v Speaker 1>Because Jonah says that we don't need to learn anything new,

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<v Speaker 1>we just need to remember, and that he wants to

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<v Speaker 1>blend the ancient past and the ancient future into the

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<v Speaker 1>now and that's kind of his mission. When I ran

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<v Speaker 1>into him, I was really impressed with him. Yeah he

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<v Speaker 1>uh excuse.

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<v Speaker 2>Yeah, he's pretty cool, pretty cool dude.

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<v Speaker 3>Yeah, I've got I learned after I moved to Georgia

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<v Speaker 3>from Minnesota, I learned that my mother's mother's people were

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<v Speaker 3>from the from North Georgia up in Gilmore County. So

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<v Speaker 3>we did some research. One of my one of my cousins,

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<v Speaker 3>did a bunch of research. Found out that there was

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<v Speaker 3>two families, the Petits and the Durdans, that came down

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<v Speaker 3>from New Jersey in the early eighteen thirties. Oh wow,

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<v Speaker 3>and they intermarried with the Cherokee. So I don't know

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<v Speaker 3>what percentage I would have, It's a very small amount.

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<v Speaker 3>But so I'm descended from that intermarriage. Yeah, my father

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<v Speaker 3>is one hundred percent Scandinavian, so that's obviously my dominant genetics.

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<v Speaker 3>But but yeah, from my mother, I get French and Cherokee,

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<v Speaker 3>Indian and Welch.

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<v Speaker 2>Oh wow. So it's an interesting mix.

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<v Speaker 3>But yeah, so I've gotten very And I meant to

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<v Speaker 3>ask Yona about the stories about if I'm pronouncing it

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<v Speaker 3>right the Nuna high.

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<v Speaker 1>Or yeah, I don't pronounce it, none of he is

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<v Speaker 1>the way I'm not announced it. But that's not correct,

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<v Speaker 1>that's not correct. We both gave talks at Elon University.

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<v Speaker 1>I got in. Somebody nominated me for this talk and

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<v Speaker 1>it's four talks to one hundred and twenty five people.

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<v Speaker 1>And then I said, you know, I can do the

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<v Speaker 1>written history and Yona can do the oral history.

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<v Speaker 2>Can we do it that way?

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<v Speaker 1>And so I kind of snuck him in the back door,

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<v Speaker 1>I see, and he was he had people in tears,

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<v Speaker 1>he was so he was doing the drum and the

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<v Speaker 1>songs and stuff like that.

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<v Speaker 2>So excuse me.

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<v Speaker 3>So I remember in North Georgia there was a mountain

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<v Speaker 3>called Blood Mountain and there was a trail that went

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<v Speaker 3>up to the top of the mountain. That the trail

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<v Speaker 3>had there was a sign and it was already worn

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<v Speaker 3>and rickety twenty five years ago, but I can remember

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<v Speaker 3>very distinctly what it said.

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<v Speaker 1>I've got that. I've got a picture of that sign,

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<v Speaker 1>do you Yeah?

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<v Speaker 3>And the reference was to the Nuna he if that's

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<v Speaker 3>how it's pronounced. Who the Cherokee legend about the people

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<v Speaker 3>who could travel anywhere, the people who could travel.

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<v Speaker 2>Anywhere and live nowhere? Was that part of it too,

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<v Speaker 2>and lived nowhere? Yep. So you've got a picture of

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<v Speaker 2>that sign.

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<v Speaker 1>Yes, And it's fairly good. So I don't know when

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<v Speaker 1>it was taken. But oh yeah, huh, it maybe was

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<v Speaker 1>when it almost looked.

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<v Speaker 2>New to me.

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<v Speaker 3>Well maybe they replaced it, yeah, because it was worn.

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<v Speaker 1>Well, no, I'm I go into the archives. I don't

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<v Speaker 1>do the digital stuff as much as I go. I

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<v Speaker 1>get the white gloves on to go through the folders

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<v Speaker 1>and put the placer.

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<v Speaker 2>And all that shit. So oh I used to do it, Yeah,

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<v Speaker 2>but I still do.

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<v Speaker 1>I think you have to because there's a lot of

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<v Speaker 1>stuff that just hasn't been digitized.

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<v Speaker 2>Haven't been digitized.

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<v Speaker 1>And then there's the problem with the algorithms. You know,

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<v Speaker 1>you get into this, you don't only go right instead

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<v Speaker 1>of I want left end right.

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<v Speaker 2>Yeah.

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<v Speaker 1>Yeah, it's been quite a quite an ordeal. But yeah, yeah,

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<v Speaker 1>Well I.

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<v Speaker 3>Have a whole shelf of research, you know, photo copied

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<v Speaker 3>research and stuff from the seventies up through the early

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<v Speaker 3>two thousands, I guess, yeah, fourteen or fifteen foot shelf,

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<v Speaker 3>all bound chronologically ordered in three ring binders with sheet protectors,

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<v Speaker 3>so I can pull it off. But you know, I

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<v Speaker 3>get so much stuff now digitally, right, because I've got

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<v Speaker 3>some passwords that I use.

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<v Speaker 2>In the drives. You have to have and then they degrade.

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<v Speaker 1>You got to buy a new one and transfer it

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<v Speaker 1>and write. Yeah, well, what are you going to do

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<v Speaker 1>with all that stuff?

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<v Speaker 2>You know? Are you going to give it to an archive.

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<v Speaker 3>Or yeah, I mean I want to build a school,

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<v Speaker 3>and yeah, that would be the core, just like Thomas

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<v Speaker 3>Jefferson bequeathed his library and that was the core foundation

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<v Speaker 3>of the University of Virginia.

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<v Speaker 2>Right, Right.

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<v Speaker 3>So I've got four thousand volumes, yeah, mostly which I

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<v Speaker 3>haven't read, but I know what's in every book. I've

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<v Speaker 3>probably read the forward introduction to every book I have,

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<v Speaker 3>so I know what's in it, right. But yeah, and

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<v Speaker 3>so I would like to endow a library that I build.

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<v Speaker 1>Yeah, your stuff on the equinox, it's in the book.

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<v Speaker 1>I quote you directly on the equinox from the solstice

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<v Speaker 1>and the way it goes back and forth, and I

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<v Speaker 1>just thought you explained it so well. And in the

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<v Speaker 1>new book, I've got the procession of the equinoxes. If

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<v Speaker 1>you're looking at the you know, the like the shadow

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<v Speaker 1>for the equinox, and you then you see the background

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<v Speaker 1>stars shifting a little bit, and that it's like, oh

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<v Speaker 1>there's something going on here. Yeah, yeah, it's amazing, do

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<v Speaker 1>you know very much about the eighteen point six lunar standstill.

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<v Speaker 1>That's what my current fascination. Well, I went up to

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<v Speaker 1>New Newark and I was just blown that.

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<v Speaker 3>You've got the minor standstill, the major standstill, and so

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<v Speaker 3>it oscillates kind of. I'll do it exaggerated minor major,

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<v Speaker 3>minor major.

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<v Speaker 1>And so it's really nine point three years and then

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<v Speaker 1>it's doubled.

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<v Speaker 2>I guess, yeah, you can think of it that way.

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<v Speaker 1>Right, Okay, But there's the Now what I've heard from

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<v Speaker 1>the Wisdom keepers is there's a planting aspect to it,

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<v Speaker 1>because the just as there's tides in the ocean, there's

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<v Speaker 1>tides in the in the soil, and so the water

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<v Speaker 1>coming up, you plant your seed where it'll meet and

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<v Speaker 1>then sometimes it's further down and sometimes it's closer up.

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<v Speaker 2>That's fascinated, But that's lunar farming.

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<v Speaker 3>Yeah, regard me whatever you want to call it, right, Yeah,

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<v Speaker 3>I'd like to play.

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<v Speaker 2>Around with that at some point. Yeah, yeah, well that

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<v Speaker 2>would be one of the things that we would do.

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<v Speaker 3>So if you're interested, I put together a pitch deck,

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<v Speaker 3>which is all the ideas of as we were talking about.

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<v Speaker 3>I mean, American education is desperately in need some kind

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<v Speaker 3>of a reboot and.

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<v Speaker 1>Where you're thinking instead of just memorizing. Yeah, I like that.

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<v Speaker 1>Joseph Campbell said that when specialists do things, they're so

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<v Speaker 1>far into the specialist thing it's very narrow and then

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<v Speaker 1>like you Cherokee thing, Well what about the Iroquois thing

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<v Speaker 1>over here? Oh no, I'm just cherokee. And so he

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<v Speaker 1>always said, I'm a generalist and they hate me because

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<v Speaker 1>you can tie them up.

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<v Speaker 2>Yeah, that's the way I'll say.

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<v Speaker 3>Well, you know, I know quite a bit about paleohydrology,

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<v Speaker 3>but I don't know as much as a full time hydrologistness.

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<v Speaker 3>I know quite a bit about astronomy and movement to

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<v Speaker 3>the planets, but probably not as much as an astronomer

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<v Speaker 3>who just does nothing on that. But I know a

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<v Speaker 3>whole lot more about paleo hydrology than the astronomer, and

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<v Speaker 3>I know a whole lot more about astronomy than the hydrologists.

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<v Speaker 2>Isn't that interesting? Yeah, So there is an important role

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<v Speaker 2>for generalists.

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<v Speaker 3>Although some of the areas I've really focused in on,

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<v Speaker 3>and I maybe you know, if I'm doing my own

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<v Speaker 3>Orn'm getting close to being an authority on some of

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<v Speaker 3>these ancient deluvial catastrophes.

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<v Speaker 2>Oh yeah, yeah.

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<v Speaker 1>I read Donnelly when I was eighteen. Yeah, yeah, that

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<v Speaker 1>Black Matte Lair. I've thought about that my whole life.

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<v Speaker 2>Jo Donnelly was a congressman from Minnesota.

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<v Speaker 1>And he went into the Library of Congress. Yeah yeah, yeah.

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<v Speaker 1>My book is down the road from Lewis and Clark's Journal.

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<v Speaker 2>I can't believe that.

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<v Speaker 1>Yeah, that was my first book and it got accepted

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<v Speaker 1>in the Library of Congress. Really yeah, just last Wednesday.

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<v Speaker 2>Oh oh yeah, recent New York. I heard you talking

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<v Speaker 2>about that. Yeah, yeah, just amazing.

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<v Speaker 3>What were some of the first and early books you

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<v Speaker 3>read on these kind of if.

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<v Speaker 2>We want to Moravian journals? Moravian journals.

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<v Speaker 1>They were the Germans that probably like your ancestors, came

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<v Speaker 1>down the Great Wagon Road from Philadelphia and they that

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<v Speaker 1>went all the way to Atlanta, and then there's branches

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<v Speaker 1>that go off from that, and they came in seventeen

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<v Speaker 1>fifty two, there were eight of them, and they started

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<v Speaker 1>writing a daily journal and they have not stopped, no kidding.

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<v Speaker 1>And so they they had the French Indian War every

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<v Speaker 1>day and then the Revolutionary War every day that had

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<v Speaker 1>affected them and then eighteen twelve Civil War, no kidding,

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<v Speaker 1>and they were pacivists, so they were they got charged

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<v Speaker 1>quadruple taxes because they weren't participating, and then each side

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<v Speaker 1>thought they were spies. Nobody trusted them. But yeah, like

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<v Speaker 1>they would come through and you know, just take everything

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<v Speaker 1>they had. Yeah, well, is there anything else do you

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<v Speaker 1>remember about the Friday that kind of impressed you?

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<v Speaker 2>Well?

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<v Speaker 3>I was impressed enough that I wanted to follow up

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<v Speaker 3>and learn more about it, right and come back.

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<v Speaker 1>Yeah, it'd be really cool if we got Yona up

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<v Speaker 1>there with you. He's in Ashville, but in that guy,

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<v Speaker 1>he drives everywhere. Just I bet he puts one hundred

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<v Speaker 1>thousand miles on his car every six months.

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<v Speaker 2>So you know, there's a Mount Yona in Georgia.

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<v Speaker 1>Yeah, probably named after his great great grandfather, Chief Fiona Augusta. Oh,

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<v Speaker 1>and he was considered, he was the prophet and he's

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<v Speaker 1>the one who went to the caves in western North Carolina.

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<v Speaker 2>So all right, we'll let you go.

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<v Speaker 1>You're whipped and you had a big day.

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<v Speaker 3>So yeah, well, you know I didn't get to sleep

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<v Speaker 3>till three am.

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<v Speaker 2>Oh my god, man, I got woke up at seven am.

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<v Speaker 1>Oh, my gosh, and I don't make it on four

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<v Speaker 1>hours so much.

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<v Speaker 2>No, I don't either. Yeah.

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<v Speaker 1>I did six last night and that wasn't enough.

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<v Speaker 2>No.

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<v Speaker 1>Yeah, and at my age, you know, it's this that

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<v Speaker 1>Betty Davis thing and getting old isn't for sissies.

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<v Speaker 2>No, definitely not.

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<v Speaker 1>But did you see Ken from Purple Power, the C

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<v Speaker 1>sixty guy?

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<v Speaker 2>Have you ever gotten into C sixty? I don't think so.

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<v Speaker 1>It's really tiny bucket balls. It goes into your mitochondria

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<v Speaker 1>and cleans them out.

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<v Speaker 2>You should talk to him. His name's Ken.

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<v Speaker 1>He's in there right now, and he's he's got a

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<v Speaker 1>business of it, and uh, he's friends with Jay Widner,

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<v Speaker 1>the film guy. So yeah, actually, let me introduce you

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<v Speaker 1>to him. You you would benefit from him.