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True Murder with 53 00:02:34.280 --> 00:02:37.680 your host journalist and author Dan Zufanski. 54 00:02:47.800 --> 00:02:51.280 Good evening in June of nineteen eighty five, while her 55 00:02:51.360 --> 00:02:55.479 teenage sons held their half sister down, Teresa cross beat 56 00:02:55.560 --> 00:02:59.120 her nineteen year old daughter, Sheila, unconscious, and then stuffed 57 00:02:59.120 --> 00:03:02.840 her into a two by two storage locker. After three days, 58 00:03:02.919 --> 00:03:07.080 the knocking, kicking, and cries stopped, Treesa and her sons 59 00:03:07.159 --> 00:03:11.000 dumped the girl's body in the desolate High Sierras. The 60 00:03:11.080 --> 00:03:13.360 summer before, Teresa had dug a bullet out of her 61 00:03:13.439 --> 00:03:17.639 daughter Susan's chest with a paring knife. When Susan failed 62 00:03:17.680 --> 00:03:21.199 to recover, without benefit of doctors or hospital, Esa and 63 00:03:21.240 --> 00:03:23.639 her two sons drove the delirious girl to the mountains, 64 00:03:24.319 --> 00:03:28.599 doused her with gasoline and sent her on fire. For 65 00:03:28.759 --> 00:03:32.520 nearly nine years, Teresa crossed nor got away with murder 66 00:03:32.960 --> 00:03:36.639 until her youngest daughter, Terry Nora Graves, finally found a 67 00:03:36.719 --> 00:03:39.639 cop who believed the incredible story of her two murdered sisters. 68 00:03:40.759 --> 00:03:43.039 That story is all here, the shocking life of a 69 00:03:43.120 --> 00:03:47.280 woman whose violence, jealousy, rage and domination led to a 70 00:03:48.199 --> 00:03:52.639 brutally heinous crime of ruthless ferocity. The book that were 71 00:03:52.680 --> 00:03:55.840 featuring this evening is Mother's Day with my special guest 72 00:03:56.000 --> 00:03:58.680 Dennis McDougall. Welcome to the program, and thank you for 73 00:03:58.840 --> 00:04:05.120 greeing to this interview. Dennis McDougall, my pleasure, Dan, thank 74 00:04:05.159 --> 00:04:08.800 you very much. This is again forever for those people 75 00:04:08.879 --> 00:04:12.120 that think they know this is one incredible tale. So 76 00:04:12.520 --> 00:04:16.480 let's get right to that. Tell us. You open this 77 00:04:16.639 --> 00:04:21.199 book with the description of an area that for those 78 00:04:22.040 --> 00:04:27.319 listening in America and internationally, describe for us the area 79 00:04:27.360 --> 00:04:29.800 that we're talking about that you called some of the 80 00:04:29.879 --> 00:04:32.920 most beautiful and rugged real estate in the country, the 81 00:04:33.000 --> 00:04:39.120 California Nevada border place there county. So tell us a 82 00:04:39.160 --> 00:04:42.199 little bit about this area that you described as a beautiful, 83 00:04:42.279 --> 00:04:46.279 rugged real estate some of the most beautiful and rugged 84 00:04:46.319 --> 00:04:47.160 real estate in the country. 85 00:04:49.519 --> 00:04:52.839 Well, the area we're talking about is near the town 86 00:04:52.959 --> 00:05:01.519 of Truckee in northern California, which is a few miles, 87 00:05:01.639 --> 00:05:07.519 maybe ten miles from Lake Tahoe, which is the largest 88 00:05:08.319 --> 00:05:17.480 lake in California and the deepest. Uh It's it's the 89 00:05:17.560 --> 00:05:23.279 stuff of picture postcards. Undoubtedly a good many of of 90 00:05:23.399 --> 00:05:27.199 your listeners have seen pictures of it at one time 91 00:05:27.319 --> 00:05:36.560 or another. Lake Tahoe is cerulean blue and placid beautiful, 92 00:05:36.759 --> 00:05:47.160 and it's surrounded by fir trees forests for as far 93 00:05:47.319 --> 00:05:54.399 as anyone can see. It's very near the famous Redwoods 94 00:05:55.079 --> 00:06:00.120 and in fact, the internationally famous you know, Semi the 95 00:06:01.160 --> 00:06:07.920 National Park is no more than fifty miles from where 96 00:06:09.439 --> 00:06:15.240 Susan and Sheila's bodies were found. Both of these girls 97 00:06:15.360 --> 00:06:29.160 were dumped unceremoniously in remote parts of this primeval landscape 98 00:06:30.000 --> 00:06:40.959 and the irony the contrast is palpable because people drive 99 00:06:41.120 --> 00:06:46.360 through this area every day marveling at how beautiful it is. 100 00:06:46.560 --> 00:06:52.319 It's green, it's in the winter time it looks like 101 00:06:53.720 --> 00:07:02.519 a courier and eys etching, and even in the hottest 102 00:07:02.560 --> 00:07:07.240 part of the summer. Uh trout fishermen flocked to uh 103 00:07:07.360 --> 00:07:11.639 this part of California, UH because uh this is uh 104 00:07:12.680 --> 00:07:14.639 nirvana for outdoorsman. 105 00:07:18.920 --> 00:07:21.680 L Now tell us just a little sorry, go ahead. 106 00:07:21.519 --> 00:07:22.879 I'm suh. That's okay, I'm sorry. 107 00:07:23.759 --> 00:07:26.240 Yeah. Now, tell us a little bit about uh the 108 00:07:26.319 --> 00:07:30.839 little town of Real Linda before we introduce the cross family. 109 00:07:32.680 --> 00:07:32.879 Yeah. 110 00:07:32.959 --> 00:07:37.839 Well, UH, Real Linda offers a jeff uh a graphical 111 00:07:38.079 --> 00:07:44.600 contrast to the trucky Lake Tahoe area where the bodies 112 00:07:44.680 --> 00:07:53.439 were found. Real Linda is located north of UH Sacramento, 113 00:07:54.279 --> 00:08:03.240 in the flatlands of UH California's Central Valley. It's no 114 00:08:03.560 --> 00:08:06.639 sort of renowned I suppose that ha as having been 115 00:08:07.439 --> 00:08:13.839 uh settled by the by Oakey's as they were known 116 00:08:14.639 --> 00:08:21.079 UH during their flight from UH Oklahoma UH and the 117 00:08:21.160 --> 00:08:23.759 dust Bowl in the nineteen thirties. 118 00:08:26.079 --> 00:08:26.600 It's a. 119 00:08:28.959 --> 00:08:40.559 Combination migrant workers and down on their luck UH welfare 120 00:08:43.120 --> 00:08:49.679 recipient UH residents and lots of trailer parks, lots of 121 00:08:53.320 --> 00:08:59.879 lots of UH thrift stores. And the wind always seems 122 00:08:59.879 --> 00:09:04.159 to be blowing at any time of the year. And 123 00:09:05.799 --> 00:09:13.600 it's reminiscent of a desert kind of crossroads, the sort 124 00:09:13.639 --> 00:09:18.480 of thing that you might see in a David Lynch 125 00:09:19.840 --> 00:09:26.919 motion picture. You, I guess the irony is that it's 126 00:09:27.879 --> 00:09:32.120 not all that far away from maybe an hour an 127 00:09:32.159 --> 00:09:35.879 hour and a half away from the area I was 128 00:09:35.960 --> 00:09:42.879 describing earlier. You go up the Donner Pass from Rio 129 00:09:43.039 --> 00:09:47.639 Linda to the east, and in an hour to an 130 00:09:47.679 --> 00:09:51.720 hour and a half you're in the high Sierras, where 131 00:09:51.799 --> 00:09:58.039 it's beautiful and green and seems to go on like 132 00:09:58.440 --> 00:10:03.600 Eden forever. So sort of, you know, heaven and hell 133 00:10:04.120 --> 00:10:05.159 in the same spot. 134 00:10:08.360 --> 00:10:11.440 Now, speaking of heaven and Hell, let's talk about early 135 00:10:11.559 --> 00:10:18.360 life for Teresa. Jimmy Francine Cross and her mother had 136 00:10:18.440 --> 00:10:24.399 been married before, and she had an older sister named Rosemary. 137 00:10:24.799 --> 00:10:27.039 Her father's name was jim So tell us a little 138 00:10:27.039 --> 00:10:29.919 bit about a little bit about the type of life 139 00:10:29.960 --> 00:10:37.480 that they had in real Linda and Teresa Crosses early upbringing. 140 00:10:39.480 --> 00:10:43.639 Well, her father worked for a number of years at 141 00:10:43.679 --> 00:10:49.360 a dairy and during that time they were, you know, 142 00:10:49.559 --> 00:10:56.639 they were probably lower middle class. They owned their own home, 143 00:10:58.240 --> 00:11:04.639 and things were I don't know, uh, relatively normal. I 144 00:11:04.720 --> 00:11:13.840 suppose under the sad circumstances of real into itself and 145 00:11:13.960 --> 00:11:19.279 tell such time that her father uh developed Parkinson's disease 146 00:11:19.480 --> 00:11:25.200 and uh was discharged from his job at the dairy, and. 147 00:11:27.679 --> 00:11:29.600 Um the. 148 00:11:31.720 --> 00:11:35.480 Livelihood the welfare of the family fell to uh the 149 00:11:35.600 --> 00:11:42.000 mother who had no job, no skills, and two small girls. 150 00:11:43.480 --> 00:11:49.440 And essentially from that point forward, Uh Teresa and her 151 00:11:49.559 --> 00:11:55.000 sister grew up in pretty much an abject poverty. 152 00:11:57.320 --> 00:11:57.399 And. 153 00:12:01.759 --> 00:12:08.840 Rosemary seemed to roll with the punches better than her 154 00:12:08.919 --> 00:12:09.879 younger sister. 155 00:12:12.679 --> 00:12:12.720 M. 156 00:12:12.960 --> 00:12:16.639 She you know, sh She went on to marry and 157 00:12:18.120 --> 00:12:21.919 lived what I I guess somewhat regard as a relatively 158 00:12:22.080 --> 00:12:35.000 normal life, uh, whereas her sister, Uh Teresa was an 159 00:12:35.159 --> 00:12:37.559 I I don't know how else to term it. Then 160 00:12:37.679 --> 00:12:39.720 say that you than to say that she was a 161 00:12:39.799 --> 00:12:47.679 bad girl, uh growing up and had no one really 162 00:12:47.799 --> 00:12:53.120 to turn to and uh uh no uh help or 163 00:12:53.919 --> 00:12:58.919 much in the way of restraints from her parents because 164 00:12:59.000 --> 00:13:04.320 one was other we disabled, and the other was trying 165 00:13:04.399 --> 00:13:14.600 to hold it all together. Anyway, Teresa got out of 166 00:13:14.679 --> 00:13:21.759 school or dropped out of school and married and the 167 00:13:21.879 --> 00:13:34.639 first of several husbands and began having children, and her 168 00:13:34.799 --> 00:13:37.879 life from that point forward went from bad to words. 169 00:13:41.000 --> 00:13:44.639 When I read your book, you talked about some of 170 00:13:44.720 --> 00:13:48.279 the things that shaped Teresa's life and one of them 171 00:13:48.480 --> 00:13:53.759 was that her parents had much more of a premium 172 00:13:53.960 --> 00:13:57.399 for the boys in the family rather than the girls. 173 00:13:58.039 --> 00:14:01.679 And we're talking about to a great difference between the 174 00:14:01.759 --> 00:14:04.840 treatment of the boys rather than the girls. In fact, 175 00:14:05.600 --> 00:14:08.799 the father was disappointed that he didn't have uh sons 176 00:14:08.840 --> 00:14:10.200 of his own, Wasn't that true? 177 00:14:11.039 --> 00:14:11.200 Oh? 178 00:14:11.320 --> 00:14:12.000 Yeah, of course. 179 00:14:14.279 --> 00:14:14.720 The the. 180 00:14:16.320 --> 00:14:20.679 I mean this was translated, uh into every aspect of 181 00:14:20.799 --> 00:14:27.360 Teresa's life. She she she regarded her her own sons 182 00:14:27.679 --> 00:14:37.120 uh with as young princes uh and all of them 183 00:14:37.559 --> 00:14:44.080 could a do no wrong and b would somehow aspire 184 00:14:44.159 --> 00:14:48.559 to great things and great fortune and UH lead them 185 00:14:48.679 --> 00:14:52.799 all to the promised Land. The girls, on the other hand, 186 00:14:54.480 --> 00:15:02.000 were were worse than second class citizens. I mean, the 187 00:15:02.120 --> 00:15:08.799 girls were were regarded as almost you know, almost in 188 00:15:08.919 --> 00:15:15.200 a uh a medieval sense. And the girls were seen 189 00:15:15.279 --> 00:15:22.480 as a burden, as a a as of no value whatsoever, 190 00:15:22.840 --> 00:15:26.879 and treated that way. And they were, uh, you know, 191 00:15:26.960 --> 00:15:31.360 if you can imagine Cinderella in the twenty first century, 192 00:15:31.960 --> 00:15:36.120 or in this case, in the late twentieth century, that's 193 00:15:36.200 --> 00:15:40.200 what that's what it was like to uh to grow 194 00:15:40.320 --> 00:15:43.039 up uh in that family. 195 00:15:45.720 --> 00:15:49.519 The other commonalities that we'll we'll talk about alt as 196 00:15:49.559 --> 00:15:52.639 we go on in this story. But Teresa was raised 197 00:15:52.679 --> 00:15:56.080 in that her mother would not let her and Teresa 198 00:15:56.200 --> 00:15:59.559 out of the yard, so very very protective. And also 199 00:15:59.639 --> 00:16:03.519 another aspect that comes up later, as the audience will 200 00:16:03.559 --> 00:16:07.000 find out, is that they had jobs and from that 201 00:16:07.200 --> 00:16:10.879 early time of their jobs, that money was taken and 202 00:16:11.120 --> 00:16:14.399 put into the family good, whereas the Sun could be 203 00:16:14.480 --> 00:16:17.519 a lay about and had this preferential treatment. So some 204 00:16:17.679 --> 00:16:21.320 of the things that we will see that Teresa carried 205 00:16:21.360 --> 00:16:26.320 on into her own family. Now you talked about Teresa 206 00:16:26.720 --> 00:16:31.679 in your book also that she received preferential treatment over 207 00:16:32.399 --> 00:16:36.799 that of Rosemary as well, her sister, which again we 208 00:16:36.960 --> 00:16:41.320 can see can lead to not very good results. So 209 00:16:41.559 --> 00:16:46.320 talk You mentioned about Teresa being sort of an unruly person, 210 00:16:46.639 --> 00:16:51.600 and both the sisters were seemed to be sexualized in 211 00:16:51.759 --> 00:16:56.279 terms of their interest in boys and sex. What did 212 00:16:56.320 --> 00:16:59.960 that lead You talked about Teresa marrying early and having children, 213 00:17:00.000 --> 00:17:06.039 and tell us about the earliest marriage and what that constituted. 214 00:17:08.000 --> 00:17:21.440 What it constituted, Well, Teresa was had a fascination early on, 215 00:17:21.680 --> 00:17:27.920 and you know, I can only make these assumptions based 216 00:17:28.000 --> 00:17:31.119 on what I was say able to gather from the 217 00:17:31.519 --> 00:17:32.680 next generation. 218 00:17:32.920 --> 00:17:35.160 But Teresa was. 219 00:17:37.839 --> 00:17:44.640 W was sexually active at a very precocious uh age, 220 00:17:45.319 --> 00:17:49.440 perhaps as early as thirteen or fourteen, maybe even earlier 221 00:17:49.559 --> 00:17:49.759 than that. 222 00:17:50.720 --> 00:17:51.079 Uh and. 223 00:17:53.079 --> 00:17:57.960 Uh and she was the baby of the family, and 224 00:17:59.079 --> 00:18:03.440 her mother uh doated on her more than she did 225 00:18:04.359 --> 00:18:07.640 obviously a lot more than she did Rosemary. Rosemary was 226 00:18:08.000 --> 00:18:09.079 more of a workhorse. 227 00:18:09.240 --> 00:18:12.720 And and. 228 00:18:14.880 --> 00:18:29.640 Um, gosh, Teresa, Teresa, how do. 229 00:18:29.720 --> 00:18:35.440 I fell for no, not fell for set her hat 230 00:18:35.599 --> 00:18:43.680 for a uh a young man who was going to 231 00:18:43.839 --> 00:18:47.799 s uh sweep her away, take her away from uh 232 00:18:48.440 --> 00:18:52.400 the real Linda uh to a new life and uh 233 00:18:52.680 --> 00:19:00.519 another part of uh the the uh Sacramento Valley. They 234 00:19:02.799 --> 00:19:11.839 they bought a house and uh what's euphemistically known as 235 00:19:11.880 --> 00:19:15.559 a shotgun house because you can stand at one uh 236 00:19:15.759 --> 00:19:18.519 end of the house and look all the way through 237 00:19:18.759 --> 00:19:21.839 to the other. Called a shotgun house because if you 238 00:19:21.960 --> 00:19:24.000 had a shotgun, you should you could shoot it right 239 00:19:24.079 --> 00:19:27.160 through the center of the house and uh not hit anything. 240 00:19:27.359 --> 00:19:30.799 It was to be uh nothing but doors leading uh 241 00:19:31.119 --> 00:19:35.319 through the to several rooms to the other side. So 242 00:19:35.480 --> 00:19:38.759 they bought this a relatively cheap house. 243 00:19:38.599 --> 00:19:38.960 In a. 244 00:19:40.720 --> 00:19:46.920 Another downtrodden part of the central valley and town called 245 00:19:48.640 --> 00:19:52.640 uh Gaunt, which is south of Sacramento. 246 00:19:53.359 --> 00:19:53.440 And. 247 00:19:56.119 --> 00:20:01.000 And her husband, and I I guess this would turn 248 00:20:01.079 --> 00:20:03.799 out to be something of a theme throughout her life. 249 00:20:03.920 --> 00:20:10.319 Her her husband turned out to be a a career 250 00:20:10.759 --> 00:20:16.240 short career, a career drunk and m hm, and you 251 00:20:16.440 --> 00:20:22.200 used to beat her and even when she was pregnant 252 00:20:22.279 --> 00:20:33.920 with their their first child, my son, her husband slapped 253 00:20:33.920 --> 00:20:42.720 her around. And there was an incident not long after 254 00:20:43.599 --> 00:20:52.359 the boy was born the baby was born, when Teresa 255 00:20:54.480 --> 00:21:04.839 picked up a gun and shot him dead, and the 256 00:21:04.920 --> 00:21:10.920 police were called in and investigated, and she was charged 257 00:21:11.240 --> 00:21:21.359 and jailed. She hired a or was assigned a pretty 258 00:21:21.440 --> 00:21:26.160 sharp attorney whom I interviewed at length about the entire incident. 259 00:21:27.519 --> 00:21:32.039 And it was something of a celebrated case back when 260 00:21:32.079 --> 00:21:41.200 it happened, because she got on the stand and whether 261 00:21:41.319 --> 00:21:46.400 she was coached or just came to her naturally when 262 00:21:46.480 --> 00:21:54.839 she was being cross examined by the cross prosecution, she 263 00:21:55.519 --> 00:21:58.279 broke into tears, and she was. 264 00:21:59.759 --> 00:22:00.319 A to. 265 00:22:01.880 --> 00:22:06.039 Persuade the jury that she acted purely in self defense 266 00:22:07.079 --> 00:22:13.519 and that uh, she was a classic battered wife. And 267 00:22:13.759 --> 00:22:19.839 she got off scot free after the fact. Uh, even 268 00:22:19.920 --> 00:22:23.599 her attorney marveled at the fact that she was able 269 00:22:23.680 --> 00:22:31.119 to pull this off because the UH forensic evidence and 270 00:22:31.279 --> 00:22:38.559 all of them and what there was in the way 271 00:22:38.599 --> 00:22:43.920 of witnesses UH indicated that she was probably laying in 272 00:22:44.039 --> 00:22:47.400 wait for him and when he came home drunk from 273 00:22:47.440 --> 00:22:54.279 the bar, rather than wait for him to pound her 274 00:22:54.319 --> 00:22:59.279 into submission, she shot him, just shot him in cold blood, 275 00:23:00.240 --> 00:23:01.759 and didn't think twice about it. 276 00:23:03.160 --> 00:23:03.759 She was. 277 00:23:05.880 --> 00:23:08.119 She was a real piece of work, Theresa was. 278 00:23:09.960 --> 00:23:13.559 So it's interesting that you write in the book because 279 00:23:14.240 --> 00:23:19.680 this is the beginning of obviously establishing that she can 280 00:23:19.720 --> 00:23:25.200 get away with and murder. Basically, because what's interesting about 281 00:23:25.200 --> 00:23:27.839 this case is the players in this case and for 282 00:23:28.400 --> 00:23:31.839 the prosecutions, a man named Dorfmann, which will come up 283 00:23:31.839 --> 00:23:35.920 a little bit later. And also even more incredibly is 284 00:23:36.200 --> 00:23:41.119 the judge Johnson, who appears in almost every single thing 285 00:23:41.279 --> 00:23:45.400 from this point on in the legal court where Teresa's involved. 286 00:23:45.440 --> 00:23:51.400 So it's incredible this judge deemed a lot of evidence 287 00:23:51.559 --> 00:23:56.400 inadmissible To say that he was favoring her as is 288 00:23:56.880 --> 00:24:00.960 an understatement in that her self defense hinged on that 289 00:24:01.079 --> 00:24:04.720 she accidentally shot the gun, but as they testified at 290 00:24:04.799 --> 00:24:09.279 court but unsuccessfully, that it would take three steps to 291 00:24:09.400 --> 00:24:12.440 be able to shoot somebody, and certainly neither one of 292 00:24:12.519 --> 00:24:16.200 those three steps could be deemed accidental. If it were 293 00:24:16.240 --> 00:24:20.119 to happen, there was witnesses that were to say that 294 00:24:20.240 --> 00:24:25.000 would have testified to say that she had made statements 295 00:24:25.079 --> 00:24:26.839 that she wanted to get rid of him, or if 296 00:24:26.839 --> 00:24:29.720 he ever left and she would shoot him rather than 297 00:24:29.799 --> 00:24:35.920 have him leave. Judge Johnson will say, for example, said 298 00:24:35.960 --> 00:24:38.799 that because that woman was married to a deputy, then 299 00:24:38.880 --> 00:24:43.359 she was acting just like a deputy. And then Teresa 300 00:24:43.559 --> 00:24:48.119 wasn't given her miranda rights, so that that testimony was 301 00:24:48.160 --> 00:24:51.359 deemed it amissible. So right away in your book, you're 302 00:24:51.440 --> 00:24:56.759 presenting this incredibly the incredible chicanery at the trial and 303 00:24:56.920 --> 00:25:01.000 really must have been emboldened Teresa for the rest of 304 00:25:01.079 --> 00:25:04.359 her life with this ability to get away with murder 305 00:25:04.440 --> 00:25:05.880 with this incredible trial. 306 00:25:07.319 --> 00:25:10.519 Yeah, well, you have to remember that this was when 307 00:25:10.640 --> 00:25:17.319 this happened, there was a real, I don't know, backlash 308 00:25:17.480 --> 00:25:21.920 I suppose in the court system. And when it came 309 00:25:22.039 --> 00:25:33.079 to these kinds of marital discord crimes, when when a 310 00:25:33.240 --> 00:25:38.079 wife shot a husband, you know, in the past, up 311 00:25:38.200 --> 00:25:44.480 until this time, the wife was guilty and the wife 312 00:25:44.640 --> 00:25:49.400 was Centerway, and and you know there there was no 313 00:25:49.640 --> 00:25:56.799 question about it. It was the whole concept of of 314 00:25:58.160 --> 00:25:59.759 abuse was. 315 00:26:02.759 --> 00:26:03.079 Okay. 316 00:26:03.240 --> 00:26:09.119 Round two, name something that's not boring, laundry, a book club, 317 00:26:09.920 --> 00:26:15.400 computer solitaire. Huh ah, Sorry, we were looking for chumbu 318 00:26:15.559 --> 00:26:20.400 Casino to jump. That's right, chumbucasino dot com as over 319 00:26:20.440 --> 00:26:23.039 one hundred casino style games joined today and play for 320 00:26:23.119 --> 00:26:26.880 free for your chance to redeem some serious prizes. 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Play for 334 00:26:56.759 --> 00:26:58.720 free right now? Are you feeling lucky? 335 00:26:58.839 --> 00:26:58.880 No? 336 00:26:58.960 --> 00:26:59.839 We're necessary voy. 337 00:27:02.680 --> 00:27:07.279 Short shrift at best, so you know. In the post 338 00:27:07.720 --> 00:27:14.000 feminist era of the sixties, the late sixties, seventies and eighties, 339 00:27:16.119 --> 00:27:21.480 there was a reversal of that. That's tried and true. 340 00:27:23.240 --> 00:27:27.920 Look at domestic violence in the court system in particular, 341 00:27:28.079 --> 00:27:35.000 and I think that this case, Teresa's case, is an 342 00:27:35.079 --> 00:27:42.359 extreme example of what happens when the courts see their 343 00:27:43.319 --> 00:27:53.359 previous wrong in being biased toward one one sex or 344 00:27:54.000 --> 00:27:58.440 one gender over another, and then they go to the 345 00:27:58.519 --> 00:28:03.920 other extreme. And and you know, Teresa was the benefactor 346 00:28:04.000 --> 00:28:10.599 of this because she didn't necessarily do it, but everybody 347 00:28:10.720 --> 00:28:14.039 involved in the course system, from the judge on down 348 00:28:14.880 --> 00:28:15.559 did it for her. 349 00:28:18.519 --> 00:28:22.839 Now part of her ability to part of her ability 350 00:28:22.920 --> 00:28:25.279 to be able to do some of these things, including 351 00:28:26.000 --> 00:28:29.599 being I guess persuasive in this trial when she was 352 00:28:29.720 --> 00:28:34.759 on the stand. So I like to describe her physical 353 00:28:34.880 --> 00:28:39.440 attributes and her sort of demeanor in terms of her 354 00:28:39.519 --> 00:28:44.880 ability to influence men. Will say she had had acquired 355 00:28:45.039 --> 00:28:47.799 some abilities in that area. Tell us a little bit 356 00:28:47.839 --> 00:28:50.640 about how she presented herself and what she looked like. 357 00:28:52.400 --> 00:28:56.559 Well, I think slut comes to mind, but that would 358 00:28:58.440 --> 00:29:04.400 probably be overstated. The case, she she played a part. 359 00:29:04.559 --> 00:29:09.599 She she learned early on how to game the system 360 00:29:11.279 --> 00:29:21.039 based on her her extreme sexuality, from her most tender 361 00:29:21.160 --> 00:29:27.480 years and h and she was both alluring and at 362 00:29:27.519 --> 00:29:39.440 the same time she tried to present this this I 363 00:29:39.480 --> 00:29:54.240 don't know put upon or um um hard scrabbled m 364 00:29:55.640 --> 00:30:03.440 young widow who had overcome a a you adversity and. 365 00:30:05.519 --> 00:30:06.160 Was uh. 366 00:30:08.400 --> 00:30:15.359 Was trying her her best to to take care of 367 00:30:15.480 --> 00:30:21.960 herself and her and her baby boy. And you know, 368 00:30:22.119 --> 00:30:26.599 she played the pity card to the to the uh 369 00:30:26.680 --> 00:30:33.160 in degree and successfully so from you look at the results, 370 00:30:34.039 --> 00:30:37.160 she was real piece of work. 371 00:30:39.039 --> 00:30:43.000 Now she marries a U a gentleman named Thornsbury, and 372 00:30:43.920 --> 00:30:48.400 he's crippled and he wounds up being a couple to her. 373 00:30:51.000 --> 00:30:54.519 So anyway she's is Obviously when she's married, it doesn't 374 00:30:54.519 --> 00:30:59.039 stop her from looking for other prospects. And again with 375 00:30:59.240 --> 00:31:03.559 her ability to uh be a seductress. Uh. Then she 376 00:31:03.720 --> 00:31:09.440 finally meets Bob Nor. Bob Nor, and and what does 377 00:31:09.519 --> 00:31:13.319 Bob Nor about the killing of Clifford? And does he 378 00:31:13.400 --> 00:31:15.119 find that out in the beginning or when does he 379 00:31:15.200 --> 00:31:18.240 find that out? And how does he come to terms 380 00:31:18.279 --> 00:31:18.480 with that? 381 00:31:18.599 --> 00:31:18.640 What? 382 00:31:19.160 --> 00:31:20.640 How does he deal with that information? 383 00:31:26.039 --> 00:31:29.640 Well, he was w when he met uh Teresa, he 384 00:31:29.839 --> 00:31:32.640 was a virgin. I mean to say that he was uh. 385 00:31:33.920 --> 00:31:38.119 Uh he was not the world who l worldly wise. 386 00:31:40.599 --> 00:31:40.720 Uh. 387 00:31:40.920 --> 00:31:45.079 Half of the marriage is an understatement. So you know 388 00:31:45.240 --> 00:31:51.400 he was both naive, he was in the military. Uh, 389 00:31:51.880 --> 00:32:04.640 and he was completely taken by this hot young m 390 00:32:07.000 --> 00:32:12.920 hot a young woman who's with with the the shady past. 391 00:32:15.759 --> 00:32:20.640 There's been there's been some time. 392 00:32:22.599 --> 00:32:22.799 Um. 393 00:32:27.319 --> 00:32:29.960 He was uh. He he did her bidding. 394 00:32:30.279 --> 00:32:32.359 He was he was. 395 00:32:34.440 --> 00:32:39.839 Um he he was young and in love and uh 396 00:32:41.079 --> 00:32:44.720 and believed that uh he found the girl of his dreams. 397 00:32:44.799 --> 00:32:49.160 And they were going to they they were going to 398 00:32:51.759 --> 00:32:54.440 start a family, which of course they did do. 399 00:32:55.440 --> 00:32:55.559 Uh. 400 00:32:55.720 --> 00:33:04.039 And they were going to uh overcome her tawdry passed 401 00:33:04.319 --> 00:33:12.920