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<v Speaker 1>Got to review this.

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<v Speaker 2>Oh, Rob McFarland's is the River Alive?

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<v Speaker 1>Yeah, the new Robert McFarland got to review that for

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<v Speaker 1>the Critic, which would be a very interesting read. And

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<v Speaker 1>once the embargo is lifted on it, which is on

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<v Speaker 1>April the twenty sixth, we had to talk about it

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<v Speaker 1>because I thought what might be quite a good idea

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<v Speaker 1>is that we ought to go and read more. So

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<v Speaker 1>therefore books that you have read or have just read

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<v Speaker 1>that we ought to occasionally going to talk about that because

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<v Speaker 1>you know, we are all literarty types. And and then

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<v Speaker 1>you know, why do we go and have almost a

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<v Speaker 1>book club? But not a book club? Too bad?

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<v Speaker 2>If it was a book club of Robert McFarlane books, though,

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<v Speaker 2>we wouldn't get anywhere. Because I love his writing. I

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<v Speaker 2>wish I could understand it.

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<v Speaker 3>Have you ever found if you just pretend to be

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<v Speaker 3>the character of whoever's writing it, suddenly you can understand it.

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<v Speaker 2>Does that work for natural history? If I pretend to

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<v Speaker 2>be a grebe?

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<v Speaker 4>Can I ask how do you fight?

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<v Speaker 1>Like?

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<v Speaker 3>Do you have like a a reading hour? Is there

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<v Speaker 3>a specific time that you read?

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<v Speaker 1>Well?

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<v Speaker 3>How do you fit that in? Because quite honestly, at

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<v Speaker 3>the moment. It is not a habit I can keep

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<v Speaker 3>up in any way, shape or for no.

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<v Speaker 1>I am with you on that personally, well sat on

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<v Speaker 1>the loo, and before I go to sleep, I'm a

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<v Speaker 1>terrible I've got a very low light reading lamp, so

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<v Speaker 1>I don't keep Claire awake, and I read before I

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<v Speaker 1>go to sleep. And then, because I'm now middle aged,

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<v Speaker 1>I then wake up at about half pass three and

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<v Speaker 1>I have to go for a week too much information,

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<v Speaker 1>and then I come back and I can't go back

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<v Speaker 1>to sleep again immediately, So then I probably read for

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<v Speaker 1>another hour until about half ass four and then doze off,

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<v Speaker 1>and then the alarm clock goes off at six, and

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<v Speaker 1>up I get again, So I get about two three

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<v Speaker 1>hours of reading in it. We're really weird times of

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<v Speaker 1>the day. So yeah, what do you do? Richard?

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<v Speaker 5>One?

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<v Speaker 2>As I trying to catch up with that, because I

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<v Speaker 2>misheard him, I thought you said, have you got a

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<v Speaker 2>reading owl?

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<v Speaker 3>That would be I mean that would be pretty good, Callum,

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<v Speaker 3>does look like the head week.

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<v Speaker 2>So I've got two readings. I do fiction just before bed?

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<v Speaker 2>Are you talking again? Calum?

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<v Speaker 4>Sorry?

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<v Speaker 3>I was just going to share a little story.

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<v Speaker 2>You can have your story in a minute. Oh no,

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<v Speaker 2>have your story now then?

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<v Speaker 4>Fine, No one can specifically about ours.

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<v Speaker 3>We had a sub editor at at work and I

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<v Speaker 3>decided to buy her a present, which was an owl

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<v Speaker 3>that one owl says who and the other says whom

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<v Speaker 3>with a question mark, and she really liked that.

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<v Speaker 2>So what have we done this week?

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<v Speaker 1>Well, you go first, to go first, okay, So why

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<v Speaker 1>you've been Okay, usual stuff. I went off and planted hedges, planting, planted, planting,

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<v Speaker 1>lots of hedges. But today I went to that there London,

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<v Speaker 1>and I had a meeting with my publisher because I

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<v Speaker 1>don't know if you know, but I've got a book

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<v Speaker 1>coming out on the first.

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<v Speaker 2>It's got a book coming out, Yeah, it's.

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<v Speaker 1>About hedges, and who's publishing it unbound? Yes, and it's

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<v Speaker 1>called Words from the Hedge and I think it's going

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<v Speaker 1>to be huge. Anyway, I had this publisher's meeting with

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<v Speaker 1>the lovely Rena, who is the head of communications, the

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<v Speaker 1>lovely Flow, who is the poor individual who actually had

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<v Speaker 1>to edit the thing, and Patrick Galbraith, who is the

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<v Speaker 1>sort of editor commissioning editor who did it. And so

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<v Speaker 1>we had a chat about all the various events which

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<v Speaker 1>we are going to go to with the book and

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<v Speaker 1>some of the press stuff. So now all the hard

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<v Speaker 1>bit and by me is done. And now my wife

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<v Speaker 1>Claire has organized this huge tour which we're going to do,

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<v Speaker 1>of which the good news is that the Country Slide

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<v Speaker 1>Pod is going to get involved in some of these events,

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<v Speaker 1>going off to things where we can go and sort

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<v Speaker 1>of talk our stuff and hopefully that might inspire people

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<v Speaker 1>to go and hopefully buy my book, so that would

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<v Speaker 1>be quite fun. And then I went out for lunch.

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<v Speaker 2>How close are you coming up to me?

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<v Speaker 1>Cheltenham? Cheltenham Science Festival? Where else am I going? Sort

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<v Speaker 1>of your way? Exeter? That's a bit quite a long

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<v Speaker 1>way south against the Exeter Comedy Festival, Exter Literary Festival.

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<v Speaker 1>Where else am I going?

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<v Speaker 6>Uh?

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<v Speaker 1>The game Fare? That's quite sort of west. Most of

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<v Speaker 1>them seem to be rather east southeast now all the

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<v Speaker 1>way down to Kent. But there's nothing actually specifically in

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<v Speaker 1>Wales yet, But who knows it. It's funny when with books,

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<v Speaker 1>I mean, is my first book I've ever published, and

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<v Speaker 1>it is that the whole marketing thing is very weird,

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<v Speaker 1>very weird. I don't understand how it works, but you know,

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<v Speaker 1>I just go where I'm told, really talk about it

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<v Speaker 1>and hedges.

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<v Speaker 3>I'll just wait for it to be on Instagram reel

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<v Speaker 3>and now I'll just give it after twenty five seconds.

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<v Speaker 1>Now what you can do is you wait till it

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<v Speaker 1>comes out on audio, and then you can think, are

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<v Speaker 1>wonderful all those chapters with me just talking at nauseam?

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<v Speaker 3>I think that genuinely, I think that your book would

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<v Speaker 3>be really, really good as an audiobook, because it's not.

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<v Speaker 3>Certain books really don't lend themselves very well to being

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<v Speaker 3>audio books, but certain ones really do. But I find

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<v Speaker 3>it really like I've been editing for like two days

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<v Speaker 3>straight and I've had nothing but podcast and audio books

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<v Speaker 3>because I just I go into auto pilots so I

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<v Speaker 3>can listen and take in information, but obviously I can't

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<v Speaker 3>read while I'm trying to airbrush people's wrinkles out of

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<v Speaker 3>there from under their eyes. So yeah, I rate the

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<v Speaker 3>audio books the only time I get to do it.

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<v Speaker 3>And you know what I've had, I've started doing when

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<v Speaker 3>I go on a dog walk and there's nothing much

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<v Speaker 3>to do, I launch a conversation with chat GPT on

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<v Speaker 3>my phone and you can do like a full conversational

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<v Speaker 3>piece with it. So I've had a full education on

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<v Speaker 3>trying to learn wine. So today I explored what the

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<v Speaker 3>different Italian great varieties had to offer. Also, it helps

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<v Speaker 3>with the pronunciations because I see lots of wine names

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<v Speaker 3>and I'm like, what is this an?

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<v Speaker 1>Yes, yeah, I've been to Multipli. It's very nice place.

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<v Speaker 1>Any road listen. So we now know what you've done.

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<v Speaker 1>Is that is that Callum has done chat GBT and

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<v Speaker 1>I've been to London and swander around doing literary stuff,

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<v Speaker 1>having lunch in swanky South Kensington restaurants at my friend

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<v Speaker 1>James Chiverini's with fascinating lady and a gentleman briefly today

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<v Speaker 1>who are quite high profile, I suppose, and I'm not

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<v Speaker 1>going to tell you exactly who that they were, but

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<v Speaker 1>they were. They were huge, fun, very entertaining and very

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<v Speaker 1>cutting edge. And I was sat in this restaurant and

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<v Speaker 1>I could see most of the crew from the Daily

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<v Speaker 1>Mail sat on a long table and because of the

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<v Speaker 1>person that I was was sat with was quite high profile.

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<v Speaker 1>You could see them all even though they were drunk

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<v Speaker 1>his lords and onto their seventeenth bottle of wine, you

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<v Speaker 1>could see them going, who's that bloke? Who's with that

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<v Speaker 1>famous geezer and his wife and they were sort of

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<v Speaker 1>waving the waiter over and I can I'm not a

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<v Speaker 1>lip reader, but like I say, who's see. It was

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<v Speaker 1>quite good. Yeah, I was talking about you today. Yeah.

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<v Speaker 2>So I was talking to somebody from the Royal Countryside

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<v Speaker 2>Fund and we were talking to them about a project

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<v Speaker 2>we're trying to get funded here and we're saying, you know,

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<v Speaker 2>we want to do hedge laying and coppicing in part

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<v Speaker 2>of that. And the guy said, immediately right, you'll have

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<v Speaker 2>to have the king gup. The King parents mad on

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<v Speaker 2>hedgelaying knows all about the styles, knows all about hedgelaying.

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<v Speaker 2>It's a big deal.

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<v Speaker 1>He's he is the president of the National Hedge Layers Society.

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<v Speaker 1>He has a lot of his hedges laid. Obviously he's

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<v Speaker 1>placing in the Cots Horse and he's got they've started

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<v Speaker 1>laying hedges two at Sandringham arm he has think it's

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<v Speaker 1>telling tales out of school. But he slightly infuriated his

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<v Speaker 1>partridge keepers because he wants to put trees in the

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<v Speaker 1>hedgerows are Sandringham and of course the worst thing, the

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<v Speaker 1>last thing you want for gray partridge conservation are trees

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<v Speaker 1>in your hedgerows because a gray partridge loves a hedge,

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<v Speaker 1>but he hates a tree because he knows that death

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<v Speaker 1>perchaes above in that tree. So yeah, so therefore they

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<v Speaker 1>don't really want that. So the predator purchase are what

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<v Speaker 1>we call trees. I mean, absolutely superb. Put them all

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<v Speaker 1>at the end in a little spinny or a cop

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<v Speaker 1>sort of type affair at the end of a hedge. Fantastic,

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<v Speaker 1>but not along the length of the hedge. But you know,

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<v Speaker 1>he's the king. He gets to do his own shizzle

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<v Speaker 1>and why not. But I don't think it's a very

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<v Speaker 1>good idea personally. If you want great partridges.

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<v Speaker 2>Well you can't say that that's treason.

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<v Speaker 1>Treeson I guarded loyally guarded his mother back in the day,

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<v Speaker 1>sat on a horse. In actual fact, I was mortared

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<v Speaker 1>once on Queen's lifeguard. I would then they weren't actually

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<v Speaker 1>aiming for me. They were aiming for John Major, they

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<v Speaker 1>being the IRA. But it was quite fun as a

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<v Speaker 1>sat a little horse called Lancelot, and the IRA decided

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<v Speaker 1>that they wanted to mortar ten Downing Street. The bass

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<v Speaker 1>plate was about half we was in the back of

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<v Speaker 1>a transit van. It was about half the way down

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<v Speaker 1>from horse Guards, heading towards Fowler Square, and they'd cut

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<v Speaker 1>out the roof of this transit rafah and they lobbed

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<v Speaker 1>these things over there and they landed in the garden

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<v Speaker 1>of because people don't know, it's quite a sizable garden

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<v Speaker 1>at the back of ten Downing Street, and they landed

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<v Speaker 1>in there. But these things washed over my head and

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<v Speaker 1>my little horse Lancelot that I was sat on on

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<v Speaker 1>guard on at the time sort of went bloody hell.

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<v Speaker 1>He wasn't very steady under fire. He dropped to his

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<v Speaker 1>knees and rolled over and I just managed to extract

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<v Speaker 1>myself from underneath. And some pillock of a rayal military

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<v Speaker 1>policeman from the SIB, which is their sort of version

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<v Speaker 1>of the CID, said what did you do at the time?

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<v Speaker 1>And I was a fairly young trooper and I was saying, well,

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<v Speaker 1>I was upside down because my horse fell over. He goes,

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<v Speaker 1>what could you have done to stop it? And my

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<v Speaker 1>and the guard commander is a court force called Fletcher,

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<v Speaker 1>and he was a right tough He ended up going

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<v Speaker 1>into the Foreign Legion in the end, and he said,

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<v Speaker 1>what do you think he was King dinner do with

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<v Speaker 1>it smacking out of the air with his king sword

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<v Speaker 1>and this military policeman sort of I think I won't

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<v Speaker 1>argue with you, and yes, all right, fair point. You

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<v Speaker 1>know what I'm I supposed to do. I'm wearing something

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<v Speaker 1>that went out fashion and Queen Victoria's reign. But anyway,

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<v Speaker 1>that's my I can't even remember how we even got here,

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<v Speaker 1>but we got here, and you now know it's just one.

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<v Speaker 2>It's just one tumbling thing after another. I mean sometimes

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<v Speaker 2>it's like throwing a load of bingo balls into a river.

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<v Speaker 2>This podcast sort start off with an order you chuck

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<v Speaker 2>them all in and then just stuff comes out.

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<v Speaker 1>Yeah, yeah, yeah, exactly.

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<v Speaker 2>Plastic pollution in rivers. There you are, what about you? Yeah?

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<v Speaker 2>It is your bit now, so you are now going

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<v Speaker 2>to talk to us about conservation and Milton Keynes? How

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<v Speaker 2>many bitcoin between here and the moon and this spaniel

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<v Speaker 2>that you met last week?

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<v Speaker 3>Due to Trump tariffs? Bitcoins not reaching the moon just yet?

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<v Speaker 2>Is it not?

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<v Speaker 3>Beat as Day? Did a beat as Day? It's good

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<v Speaker 3>fun as fun as beat as days are missing sausage

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<v Speaker 3>roll Sam out of the lineup a beats Day? Very disappointed? No,

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<v Speaker 3>sausage rolls on the last day.

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<v Speaker 2>That did you miss Sam or did you miss sausage rolls?

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<v Speaker 4>Both in equal measure?

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<v Speaker 2>All right, as where's a hierarchy of needs on that.

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<v Speaker 3>Some say he's actually part man, part sausage roll Others

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<v Speaker 3>say it's more of a sixty forty split.

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<v Speaker 1>But has he has he changed since we gave him

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<v Speaker 1>a knighthood? You know? Is he now a bit more aloof?

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<v Speaker 1>Is that why though I'm not luring myself to come

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<v Speaker 1>on a beat's day, I've got a knighthood. I'm not

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<v Speaker 1>hanging around with all these scum he sort of.

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<v Speaker 4>Let's be honest, He's probably got invites.

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<v Speaker 3>For the rest of the season after that.

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<v Speaker 1>I think this is the case. Anyone who gets mentioned

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<v Speaker 1>on this podcast now is both blessed and damned because

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<v Speaker 1>wherever they go, they said, you mentioned whether.

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<v Speaker 3>Or if we don't like them, then Kim and the

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<v Speaker 3>rest of Korea make sure they get taken.

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<v Speaker 2>Out number one in career again.

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<v Speaker 1>I think.

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<v Speaker 2>So.

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<v Speaker 1>Do you know what? I went looking for the Korean

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<v Speaker 1>embassy today because I had someone told me that apparently

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<v Speaker 1>the North Korean Embassy is actually in a suburb somewhere

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<v Speaker 1>in a semi detached behind a private hedge. So I thought, well,

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<v Speaker 1>I'm for japes and a laugh. I will go and

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<v Speaker 1>look for the yes for some Korean banter. So I walked, obviously,

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<v Speaker 1>to walk to Old Portico. You've got to go past

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<v Speaker 1>so many of the embassies. You go past the French embassy,

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<v Speaker 1>and I thought, I'm not going to go and have

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<v Speaker 1>the French one. That's got no comedy value at all.

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<v Speaker 1>Then I came to the Panamanian embassy and I thought, oh,

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<v Speaker 1>this will be fun. So there weren't that many people

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<v Speaker 1>walking along there, so I got my phone out and

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<v Speaker 1>turned it onto reverse. So I was going to do

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<v Speaker 1>a little thing, and suddenly this man came out and

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<v Speaker 1>he said, you can't film here, mate, And I went,

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<v Speaker 1>you know what, I'm just doing this for a podcast.

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<v Speaker 1>You can't film me. I went oh, And so I thought, well,

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<v Speaker 1>I'm not getting in trouble with the Panamanians. You know what.

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<v Speaker 1>Look what happened to McMillan over the Panama Canal. There

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<v Speaker 1>was all sorts of hassle. So I walked on and

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<v Speaker 1>I thought, that piece of comedy gold is now at

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<v Speaker 1>an end.

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<v Speaker 2>Anyway, if you were in a public place, well, don't

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<v Speaker 2>get all I want to get all photographery about you.

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<v Speaker 3>But technically I don't think he's got any rights to

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<v Speaker 3>tell you. But then maybe yeah, if you're in a

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<v Speaker 3>public place, public right away, he's got.

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<v Speaker 2>Film members, he's Otherwise Google street View wouldn't exist.

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<v Speaker 1>No, No, I mean I have to say that there

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<v Speaker 1>is one place up in I think it's an outskirts

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<v Speaker 1>of Newcastle that they just put this thing on a

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<v Speaker 1>WhatsApp group and said the Google vans coming around and

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<v Speaker 1>just every other snapshot as you go along on this

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<v Speaker 1>street view thing, just Jordie's sat there with their penises

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<v Speaker 1>exposed because they just stood there in the windows or

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<v Speaker 1>garden gates of that.

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<v Speaker 2>Every time I've been to Newcastle, that would lead me

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<v Speaker 2>to believe that you could have just done that on

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<v Speaker 2>any random day and filmed in a direction and you

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<v Speaker 2>would have seen somebody in a state of undress.

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<v Speaker 1>They have got a great sense of humor, and yeah,

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<v Speaker 1>they are the funniest. So anyway, we now onto have

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<v Speaker 1>you said what you've done other than oh no, you

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<v Speaker 1>did some other exciting things, isn't you.

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<v Speaker 3>I was also in London. I had a couple of

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<v Speaker 3>days in London, which is quite nice.

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<v Speaker 2>Went round.

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<v Speaker 4>I went to Fallow restaurant.

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<v Speaker 2>Oh like them.

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<v Speaker 3>They've got an exceptional YouTube channel and if you want

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<v Speaker 3>to learn to cook like I don't know, fancy sauces

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<v Speaker 3>and stuff, the Fallow YouTube channel is probably the best

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<v Speaker 3>resource because it's actual chef.

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<v Speaker 2>Stuff and works as well. It's done from a very

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<v Speaker 2>practical point of view.

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<v Speaker 3>Yeah, there's there's not much messing. It's straight in. This

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00:16:27.879 --> 00:16:31.960
<v Speaker 3>is exactly this how you make it taste amazing And

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<v Speaker 3>I've turned a lot of those recipes and stuff in

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<v Speaker 3>there with Partridges, Pheasants all that jazz made amazing sources

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00:16:43.000 --> 00:16:46.000
<v Speaker 3>and pimped up a lot of game meet using that.

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<v Speaker 3>So when I got the opportunity to go to the restaurant,

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<v Speaker 3>I was blown away and I just was, yeah, it

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<v Speaker 3>was really good.

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<v Speaker 2>Are working there or are you just passing around?

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<v Speaker 4>No?

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<v Speaker 3>Just drinking and eating and having a laugh.

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<v Speaker 1>And it was.

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<v Speaker 3>I'd go as far to say it's the best meal

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<v Speaker 3>I've had in London.

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<v Speaker 4>That good.

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00:17:08.799 --> 00:17:14.200
<v Speaker 3>Oh god, Yeah, it's really worth going Fallow. Saint James's

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00:17:15.960 --> 00:17:20.759
<v Speaker 3>wholeheartedly recommend. I had a beef rib that. I mean,

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00:17:20.799 --> 00:17:24.079
<v Speaker 3>it didn't look like much at all, but it was

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<v Speaker 3>smoky and incredibly beefy and probably one of the finest

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<v Speaker 3>pieces of meat I've ever tasted in my life. It

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00:17:32.359 --> 00:17:41.599
<v Speaker 3>was just so unbelievably good. So highly recommend that place if.

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<v Speaker 4>You get a chance.

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00:17:40.839 --> 00:17:43.920
<v Speaker 3>But I also went to the Harold's Food Market during

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<v Speaker 3>that time and they're selling lots of game meat down

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00:17:48.799 --> 00:17:51.880
<v Speaker 3>there as well, which was really interesting. Partridges you can

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<v Speaker 3>buy a wood pigeon, you can buy mallards everything down there.

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<v Speaker 3>I think that's the best selection of game meat I've

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<v Speaker 3>seen anywhere. I think even my local butchers hasn't got

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<v Speaker 3>quite as much as that in the in the window,

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<v Speaker 3>and they show a fair bit.

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<v Speaker 2>Fortland's had a good pile last year as well. I

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00:18:11.759 --> 00:18:13.960
<v Speaker 2>don't know if they have if they kept up with it,

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00:18:14.000 --> 00:18:15.960
<v Speaker 2>but they sort of. Everyone seemed to go over to

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00:18:16.319 --> 00:18:18.839
<v Speaker 2>a decent supply of game. But it is nice. It's

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00:18:18.880 --> 00:18:20.400
<v Speaker 2>weird you have to go right into the middle of

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00:18:20.440 --> 00:18:22.880
<v Speaker 2>London to see it, whereas a lot of provincial towns

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00:18:23.160 --> 00:18:26.079
<v Speaker 2>you you struggle to find game of that regularity in

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00:18:26.119 --> 00:18:28.640
<v Speaker 2>that that's equality.

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<v Speaker 1>Yeah, yes, the same with Borough Market. Borough Market is

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<v Speaker 1>a wash with every single conceivable but a game you

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00:18:34.319 --> 00:18:37.079
<v Speaker 1>want to have their you know, you think where I

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00:18:37.160 --> 00:18:42.759
<v Speaker 1>went for lunch today, I had a venison shank, and

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00:18:42.799 --> 00:18:45.960
<v Speaker 1>then when lap along two doors down is open, that's

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<v Speaker 1>nothing but game. So it's actually, bizarrely is that the

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00:18:49.960 --> 00:18:53.519
<v Speaker 1>Capital is best served whether it be for butchers or

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00:18:53.559 --> 00:18:57.319
<v Speaker 1>for restaurants, that's where you get wild meat, that's it.

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00:18:57.480 --> 00:19:02.119
<v Speaker 1>Whereas hick where it's actually shot and processed, and then

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00:19:02.119 --> 00:19:05.279
<v Speaker 1>it's a bit seemed to exist, but it was ever Thus,

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00:19:05.440 --> 00:19:08.079
<v Speaker 1>I think, you know, there used to be special trains

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00:19:08.160 --> 00:19:11.119
<v Speaker 1>used to go from great Yarmor filled with game and

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<v Speaker 1>wild fowl into the Capital. So I suppose we're actually

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<v Speaker 1>only repeating the pattern that's always been.

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<v Speaker 4>That funny.

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<v Speaker 2>You're burying the lead a little bit here, callum as well,

356
00:19:20.440 --> 00:19:24.000
<v Speaker 2>because have you been moonlighting on any other productions.

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<v Speaker 3>My final thing was I was invited thanks to thanks

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<v Speaker 3>to your good reputations and the fact that you two

359
00:19:33.680 --> 00:19:38.200
<v Speaker 3>had already done it onto the Guns on Pegs Podcasts.

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<v Speaker 3>Had a very extensive, long conversation with the chaps on there,

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<v Speaker 3>and it was it was really good. It was a

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<v Speaker 3>really good time. Actually, it was really fun. I listened

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<v Speaker 3>back and I was trying not to be too controversial, but.

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<v Speaker 2>Hmm.

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<v Speaker 4>Obviously I didn't try that hard.

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<v Speaker 1>I think they did very well. They let you talk

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<v Speaker 1>and they asked you a question. They pulled the ripcord

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<v Speaker 1>and they let you talk. And I think that narrative

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<v Speaker 1>of the let's talk to Callum the fascinated observer and

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<v Speaker 1>you showed your fascination and some of the questions that

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<v Speaker 1>you asked of it. You know, why is that normal?

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<v Speaker 2>You know?

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<v Speaker 1>I think particularly about the clothing was very interesting.

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<v Speaker 2>Yeah, shuffle, shofflegate.

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<v Speaker 1>Yes, shogate. Yeah. And I think there was a lot

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<v Speaker 1>of it's worth while listening to the Guns on Pegs

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00:20:34.880 --> 00:20:38.599
<v Speaker 1>podcast anyway, because obviously we are not a shooting podcast people,

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00:20:39.000 --> 00:20:39.799
<v Speaker 1>but they are.

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<v Speaker 3>I did have to get that across several times because

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<v Speaker 3>I just going to make sure and probably there's there's

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<v Speaker 3>I So a point I do want to make is

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<v Speaker 3>they also ask excellent follow up questions to lead me

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<v Speaker 3>into stuff.

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<v Speaker 1>When I sort of follow up questions, they ask Callum.

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00:20:58.680 --> 00:21:05.960
<v Speaker 3>Ramble onto non sequiturs, which unbelievably I have a tendency

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00:21:06.000 --> 00:21:10.640
<v Speaker 3>to do. And so some of my favorite podcast co

387
00:21:10.720 --> 00:21:14.000
<v Speaker 3>hosts also have a tendency to ramble into non secutars

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<v Speaker 3>on a regular basis.

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<v Speaker 1>So yes, I've never done anything like that.

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00:21:18.920 --> 00:21:22.279
<v Speaker 2>I've never had Tuesday, Build Build Pump.

391
00:21:22.799 --> 00:21:25.960
<v Speaker 3>So yes, it was a really good podcast. I thoroughly

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00:21:26.039 --> 00:21:31.039
<v Speaker 3>enjoyed it. I should imagine there's probably some people listening

393
00:21:31.279 --> 00:21:34.880
<v Speaker 3>that have come across from there, which I'd like to

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00:21:34.880 --> 00:21:36.200
<v Speaker 3>say welcome.

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<v Speaker 1>They've left already, don't worry, they probably have as.

396
00:21:40.079 --> 00:21:44.759
<v Speaker 3>You talk about a load of Bill hooks, hey, and

397
00:21:44.799 --> 00:21:48.640
<v Speaker 3>then yeah, just you know, there is actually some good

398
00:21:48.680 --> 00:21:55.119
<v Speaker 3>content on this podcast episodes including tree Man, Harry Hoblin,

399
00:21:55.720 --> 00:21:59.000
<v Speaker 3>Harry Hoblin, Demand the Legend. It's actually a really good

400
00:21:59.000 --> 00:22:01.759
<v Speaker 3>episode and not just as ambling like this any any

401
00:22:01.759 --> 00:22:02.680
<v Speaker 3>other leons.

402
00:22:02.759 --> 00:22:09.519
<v Speaker 1>Obviously, Chalon Davis, he was excellent, and I'm really particularly

403
00:22:09.960 --> 00:22:14.240
<v Speaker 1>looking forward to was it week after next? Is We've

404
00:22:14.240 --> 00:22:16.680
<v Speaker 1>got and Dobson on? Yeah, we've got Andy Dogson on

405
00:22:16.799 --> 00:22:18.559
<v Speaker 1>talking about reed beds.

406
00:22:18.880 --> 00:22:21.759
<v Speaker 2>Yeah. I'm particularly excited about this because I know bogger

407
00:22:21.839 --> 00:22:24.119
<v Speaker 2>all about it. I get I get to ask loads

408
00:22:24.119 --> 00:22:26.519
<v Speaker 2>of questions like what is a reed? What do you

409
00:22:26.559 --> 00:22:29.039
<v Speaker 2>do with the reeds? What the reeds taste off? Can

410
00:22:29.079 --> 00:22:31.119
<v Speaker 2>I eat reeds? Can you burn reeds?

411
00:22:31.759 --> 00:22:33.200
<v Speaker 4>Can you give me a taster?

412
00:22:33.640 --> 00:22:36.960
<v Speaker 3>So am I right in thinking that they when they

413
00:22:37.640 --> 00:22:40.759
<v Speaker 3>there's something about regenerating the habitat when they take the

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00:22:40.839 --> 00:22:41.359
<v Speaker 3>reeds out.

415
00:22:41.559 --> 00:22:43.279
<v Speaker 4>Is that a thing, right?

416
00:22:43.359 --> 00:22:47.240
<v Speaker 1>Yeah, Well, basically Andy is from he comes from about

417
00:22:47.319 --> 00:22:51.519
<v Speaker 1>I think four generations of thatchers and they are the

418
00:22:51.519 --> 00:22:54.720
<v Speaker 1>bee's knees. And obviously here in Eastanglia, one of the

419
00:22:54.759 --> 00:22:57.920
<v Speaker 1>major mediums that you use for thatching is water read

420
00:22:59.400 --> 00:23:02.559
<v Speaker 1>fratchur my tease Australis, I think is the Latin name

421
00:23:02.599 --> 00:23:07.039
<v Speaker 1>for it. And the interesting thing where he's going to

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00:23:07.079 --> 00:23:12.519
<v Speaker 1>come from is the fact that we do not use

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<v Speaker 1>British read half as much, three quarters as much, seven

424
00:23:16.599 --> 00:23:19.240
<v Speaker 1>eighths as much as we used to do, because there

425
00:23:19.240 --> 00:23:22.079
<v Speaker 1>are certain organizations that say, don't cut it, you know,

426
00:23:22.279 --> 00:23:24.160
<v Speaker 1>or we've got to leave it alone otherwise the bittens

427
00:23:24.799 --> 00:23:28.519
<v Speaker 1>will suffer. And so we end up if we're going

428
00:23:28.559 --> 00:23:32.680
<v Speaker 1>to look after historic buildings with having to import water

429
00:23:32.799 --> 00:23:37.319
<v Speaker 1>read from Ukraine, from Turkey and Egypt and places like that,

430
00:23:37.640 --> 00:23:40.839
<v Speaker 1>which of course is not ecologically sustainable. And there's also

431
00:23:40.880 --> 00:23:42.759
<v Speaker 1>a big question, and this is the thing I really

432
00:23:42.759 --> 00:23:46.240
<v Speaker 1>want to understand from him, is that is it actually

433
00:23:46.319 --> 00:23:49.119
<v Speaker 1>yet another thing that you're getting certain sort of wildlife

434
00:23:49.279 --> 00:23:51.680
<v Speaker 1>NGOs saying, oh, leave everything alone. It will be fine,

435
00:23:52.079 --> 00:23:54.640
<v Speaker 1>Is it not? Actually that these habitats are suffering as

436
00:23:54.680 --> 00:23:56.960
<v Speaker 1>a result, and that we are also missing out on

437
00:23:57.079 --> 00:24:01.119
<v Speaker 1>getting this sustainable product which we could be using on that.

438
00:24:01.440 --> 00:24:04.680
<v Speaker 1>So I'm really looking forward to it because I don't

439
00:24:04.720 --> 00:24:08.079
<v Speaker 1>think another podcast would have thought about reed beds. But

440
00:24:08.200 --> 00:24:11.400
<v Speaker 1>they are such vital habitats they need to be managed.

441
00:24:11.440 --> 00:24:14.519
<v Speaker 1>And we're asking someone who's about to get his doctorate

442
00:24:14.839 --> 00:24:18.519
<v Speaker 1>in reeds. I don't think there's another read doctor anywhere.

443
00:24:18.759 --> 00:24:21.119
<v Speaker 1>But he's also really understands it because he's a proper

444
00:24:21.160 --> 00:24:23.400
<v Speaker 1>thattor and he's from a family of Thatchers.

445
00:24:23.440 --> 00:24:24.839
<v Speaker 2>And what I was going to say, if he's a

446
00:24:24.880 --> 00:24:27.279
<v Speaker 2>fourth generation Thatcher, does that mean that somewhere in the

447
00:24:27.359 --> 00:24:31.400
<v Speaker 2>village is someone with a surname minor that absolutely hates him.

448
00:24:31.640 --> 00:24:31.920
<v Speaker 1>Ah.

449
00:24:34.200 --> 00:24:36.480
<v Speaker 2>I've been sitting on that joke for about three minutes now.

450
00:24:36.799 --> 00:24:39.440
<v Speaker 1>Yeah, I wish I'd sat back on it.

451
00:24:39.599 --> 00:24:43.119
<v Speaker 3>If you're waiting patiently not listening to a word, let's.

452
00:24:42.920 --> 00:24:45.480
<v Speaker 1>Shut him up by asking what have you been up

453
00:24:45.519 --> 00:24:47.240
<v Speaker 1>to this week? Richard?

454
00:24:47.559 --> 00:24:48.920
<v Speaker 2>I've been up to absolutely nothing.

455
00:24:49.279 --> 00:24:49.400
<v Speaker 5>No.

456
00:24:49.640 --> 00:24:53.519
<v Speaker 2>I wrote an article for Scribehound on wild garlic and

457
00:24:53.720 --> 00:24:57.480
<v Speaker 2>why you're not doing enough with wild garlic. Well, yeah,

458
00:24:57.519 --> 00:25:00.400
<v Speaker 2>Ramsoon's is a better name for it, wild garlic, sort

459
00:25:00.400 --> 00:25:05.599
<v Speaker 2>of the weird modern name Ramsen's is more is probably

460
00:25:05.599 --> 00:25:08.920
<v Speaker 2>the most common English name. And over here in Wales

461
00:25:08.960 --> 00:25:12.519
<v Speaker 2>it's crab a crab a gavier. But rams AND's you

462
00:25:12.519 --> 00:25:17.480
<v Speaker 2>get place names named after wild garlic. So Ramsey and

463
00:25:18.200 --> 00:25:25.119
<v Speaker 2>it's in Suffolk. Ramsey, yeah, yeah, named after the Ramsey bottom.

464
00:25:25.440 --> 00:25:29.319
<v Speaker 1>My father's family. A lot of them come from Ramsey.

465
00:25:29.440 --> 00:25:32.400
<v Speaker 1>And I think it's actually Huntingdon shere? Was it Lincoln shere?

466
00:25:32.400 --> 00:25:35.160
<v Speaker 1>I can't remember that sort of fends man.

467
00:25:35.079 --> 00:25:39.599
<v Speaker 2>As well, there's Ramsey there. I didn't know that most

468
00:25:39.640 --> 00:25:42.920
<v Speaker 2>places with rams in somewhere in the name in England

469
00:25:43.119 --> 00:25:46.319
<v Speaker 2>are more likely to be doe with wild garlic than

470
00:25:46.319 --> 00:25:48.880
<v Speaker 2>they are to do with the sheep. Well, I never

471
00:25:49.559 --> 00:25:51.839
<v Speaker 2>there you go. That's that's that's your bit of value

472
00:25:51.880 --> 00:25:54.319
<v Speaker 2>for today and for everything else. Like what you do

473
00:25:54.400 --> 00:25:58.079
<v Speaker 2>with wild garlic, I've broke it down into five or

474
00:25:58.119 --> 00:25:59.920
<v Speaker 2>six different things, so you do it throughout the sea.

475
00:26:00.359 --> 00:26:03.599
<v Speaker 2>You just do one thing, So you do stuff different

476
00:26:03.599 --> 00:26:06.559
<v Speaker 2>stuff with the young leaves than the mature leaves, and

477
00:26:06.559 --> 00:26:08.799
<v Speaker 2>then the flowers and you can pickle them and do

478
00:26:08.880 --> 00:26:11.000
<v Speaker 2>all sorts of things of them so cool.

479
00:26:11.039 --> 00:26:17.400
<v Speaker 3>So I found my first wow garlic, that's what.

480
00:26:15.039 --> 00:26:16.599
<v Speaker 4>What do you call it?

481
00:26:16.680 --> 00:26:20.279
<v Speaker 3>Ram ram ramsons?

482
00:26:20.880 --> 00:26:21.880
<v Speaker 4>So what do you do with the young lea?

483
00:26:22.000 --> 00:26:26.720
<v Speaker 3>To found my first ones when I was pigeon rooshing

484
00:26:26.799 --> 00:26:30.599
<v Speaker 3>about a week ago, and I picked them and left

485
00:26:30.640 --> 00:26:33.359
<v Speaker 3>them in the fridge to die, but I have every

486
00:26:33.359 --> 00:26:35.559
<v Speaker 3>intention of actually using it.

487
00:26:35.359 --> 00:26:38.359
<v Speaker 2>So raw, fresh and raw to pick them, wash them,

488
00:26:38.400 --> 00:26:40.279
<v Speaker 2>make sure it's actually wild garlic, and then you can

489
00:26:40.319 --> 00:26:43.200
<v Speaker 2>eat those raw. They're the ones for salads and things

490
00:26:43.279 --> 00:26:46.240
<v Speaker 2>like that. The more mature they get, the more they'll

491
00:26:46.279 --> 00:26:48.039
<v Speaker 2>benefit from a little bit of heat and a little

492
00:26:48.079 --> 00:26:52.039
<v Speaker 2>bit of cooking. So March tends to be when you

493
00:26:52.079 --> 00:26:54.440
<v Speaker 2>start to get the mature ones. But the young ones

494
00:26:54.519 --> 00:26:56.319
<v Speaker 2>now they've got a real kick to them, So they're

495
00:26:56.359 --> 00:26:58.680
<v Speaker 2>the ones are going salads and sandwiches and things like that.

496
00:26:59.799 --> 00:27:02.599
<v Speaker 2>And the flowers are the best bit though, wait for

497
00:27:02.599 --> 00:27:05.880
<v Speaker 2>the flowers to come up, although actually the seed heads

498
00:27:05.880 --> 00:27:08.240
<v Speaker 2>that are left behind after the flowers have died back,

499
00:27:08.920 --> 00:27:11.359
<v Speaker 2>you collect those and you put them in a side

500
00:27:11.359 --> 00:27:13.359
<v Speaker 2>of vinegar or a white wine vinegar, and you make

501
00:27:13.400 --> 00:27:13.920
<v Speaker 2>a sort of a.

502
00:27:13.880 --> 00:27:17.000
<v Speaker 4>Garlice caper that sounds good.

503
00:27:18.160 --> 00:27:20.400
<v Speaker 2>I nick that from a chef at La Manoir because

504
00:27:20.400 --> 00:27:22.759
<v Speaker 2>I was trying to knock me down on the price

505
00:27:22.799 --> 00:27:25.160
<v Speaker 2>of forage, so you told me a recipe as part payment.

506
00:27:26.039 --> 00:27:31.480
<v Speaker 3>One of my favorite things was to get the wild

507
00:27:31.559 --> 00:27:35.839
<v Speaker 3>garlic and you hold it used something like a I

508
00:27:35.839 --> 00:27:38.359
<v Speaker 3>think I used cold press rape seed oil, and I

509
00:27:38.400 --> 00:27:42.119
<v Speaker 3>held it at a temperature of like eighty something celsius,

510
00:27:42.160 --> 00:27:44.599
<v Speaker 3>so it didn't like quite fry.

511
00:27:45.000 --> 00:27:47.720
<v Speaker 2>Yeah, it's quite volatile the compounds in there.

512
00:27:48.079 --> 00:27:52.279
<v Speaker 3>And then gave it like ten minutes or something, and

513
00:27:52.359 --> 00:27:55.000
<v Speaker 3>there was a trick that would make it a very

514
00:27:55.160 --> 00:27:58.960
<v Speaker 3>deep green and ensure that you didn't wash all the

515
00:27:59.000 --> 00:28:03.000
<v Speaker 3>color out. And you had this stunning wild garlic oil.

516
00:28:03.440 --> 00:28:05.480
<v Speaker 3>And I saw it on I don't know it was

517
00:28:06.079 --> 00:28:08.839
<v Speaker 3>a TikTok or something. I followed it to a tea

518
00:28:08.880 --> 00:28:11.720
<v Speaker 3>and it come out absolutely perfectly. And I never wrote

519
00:28:11.759 --> 00:28:17.400
<v Speaker 3>the notes down. So if anybody knows exactly what the

520
00:28:17.720 --> 00:28:19.960
<v Speaker 3>trick to make in a wild garlic oil to be

521
00:28:20.000 --> 00:28:22.880
<v Speaker 3>a deep, rich green, you.

522
00:28:22.920 --> 00:28:23.480
<v Speaker 4>Just let me know.

523
00:28:23.799 --> 00:28:25.759
<v Speaker 2>So the thing with that is, I bet that didn't

524
00:28:25.799 --> 00:28:29.359
<v Speaker 2>taste much of garlic at all, because the more you

525
00:28:29.400 --> 00:28:32.400
<v Speaker 2>mess around with garlic and wild garlic and temperatures the

526
00:28:32.400 --> 00:28:34.279
<v Speaker 2>more you lose a flavor of garlic. So this is

527
00:28:34.319 --> 00:28:37.680
<v Speaker 2>another sort of chef secret. When you have wild garlic

528
00:28:37.720 --> 00:28:40.359
<v Speaker 2>whatever and in a restaurant and it really tastes of garlic,

529
00:28:40.759 --> 00:28:43.799
<v Speaker 2>chances are they've lobbed some bull garlic in there as well.

530
00:28:44.359 --> 00:28:48.119
<v Speaker 2>Because wild garlic is you should think about it more

531
00:28:48.160 --> 00:28:50.279
<v Speaker 2>as an onion that tastes a little bit of garlic

532
00:28:50.640 --> 00:28:55.160
<v Speaker 2>rather than a true garlic. So the more you mess

533
00:28:55.160 --> 00:28:59.400
<v Speaker 2>with it, the less it tastes off garlic. It's this

534
00:28:59.480 --> 00:29:04.519
<v Speaker 2>weird thing out the really popular foraged items for restaurants.

535
00:29:05.119 --> 00:29:07.359
<v Speaker 2>Often you have to mess with to actually meet the

536
00:29:07.359 --> 00:29:11.160
<v Speaker 2>customer expectation. It's like chicken O the Woods. People always say, oh,

537
00:29:11.200 --> 00:29:13.079
<v Speaker 2>chicken O of the wods, it's wonderful. No, Chicken of

538
00:29:13.079 --> 00:29:16.160
<v Speaker 2>the Woods generally tastes of butter because that's what it's

539
00:29:16.200 --> 00:29:18.960
<v Speaker 2>swimming in when it served you on the plate. And

540
00:29:19.279 --> 00:29:21.759
<v Speaker 2>it doesn't have nothing wrong with deep flavor at all. Yeah,

541
00:29:21.759 --> 00:29:24.240
<v Speaker 2>I mean, butter's fine, but it is it's a delivery

542
00:29:24.279 --> 00:29:26.960
<v Speaker 2>vessel for butter. Mostly puffballs.

543
00:29:27.000 --> 00:29:28.920
<v Speaker 1>They don't taste a lot, did they really.

544
00:29:29.519 --> 00:29:31.880
<v Speaker 2>No, But they'll absorb the flavor of whatever you put

545
00:29:31.880 --> 00:29:34.160
<v Speaker 2>them with At Fallow.

546
00:29:34.559 --> 00:29:38.000
<v Speaker 3>We had a cabbage and it had like a little

547
00:29:38.200 --> 00:29:43.240
<v Speaker 3>truffle thing next to it, so they they're very transparent.

548
00:29:43.319 --> 00:29:46.839
<v Speaker 3>So I googled what they did to this cabbage to

549
00:29:46.880 --> 00:29:51.720
<v Speaker 3>make it taste unbelievable, and it turns out they confee

550
00:29:51.759 --> 00:29:55.240
<v Speaker 3>it in butter, then fry it in butter, then cook

551
00:29:55.319 --> 00:29:58.279
<v Speaker 3>it in butter, and then smother it with butter, and

552
00:29:58.319 --> 00:30:01.240
<v Speaker 3>then put butter on it, and then smokes and butter

553
00:30:01.319 --> 00:30:04.279
<v Speaker 3>and then put butter with it. It's basically just a

554
00:30:04.359 --> 00:30:07.680
<v Speaker 3>buttered cabbage. There's a lot of butter in it. Let

555
00:30:07.680 --> 00:30:08.240
<v Speaker 3>me just tell you.

556
00:30:08.559 --> 00:30:10.160
<v Speaker 2>I was going to go on a limb going on

557
00:30:10.160 --> 00:30:12.640
<v Speaker 2>a limb there and suggest that recipe might be French.

558
00:30:14.359 --> 00:30:17.279
<v Speaker 4>Yeah, and it is one of the best.

559
00:30:18.079 --> 00:30:21.480
<v Speaker 1>It is peculiar. A country that is renowned for not

560
00:30:21.519 --> 00:30:25.119
<v Speaker 1>really wanting to die in war is more than happy

561
00:30:25.200 --> 00:30:30.240
<v Speaker 1>to kill itself and others by their cuisine. Not the

562
00:30:30.319 --> 00:30:32.920
<v Speaker 1>fact it tastes bad. It's just there's just a half

563
00:30:32.960 --> 00:30:33.920
<v Speaker 1>attack on a plate.

564
00:30:34.599 --> 00:30:38.240
<v Speaker 2>What a way to go though, smoking a gal naked

565
00:30:38.279 --> 00:30:39.960
<v Speaker 2>from the waist down eating.

566
00:30:40.319 --> 00:30:41.960
<v Speaker 1>Well, it's cabbage.

567
00:30:42.559 --> 00:30:45.880
<v Speaker 3>No, I wouldn't like that, just just for the obituary.

568
00:30:46.559 --> 00:30:49.759
<v Speaker 3>Choking on a steak bad Oyster.

569
00:30:54.039 --> 00:30:57.599
<v Speaker 2>Hello everybody. Richard here the one in Wales, not the

570
00:30:57.640 --> 00:31:02.079
<v Speaker 2>hedge laying Suffolk. One week we got Hugh, my mate

571
00:31:02.119 --> 00:31:05.640
<v Speaker 2>from Petrovelin Farm, to give me a little sort of

572
00:31:05.680 --> 00:31:09.000
<v Speaker 2>audio summary of what he's doing with yogurt. Well, a

573
00:31:09.039 --> 00:31:11.319
<v Speaker 2>few of you suggested that we should do that every

574
00:31:11.359 --> 00:31:14.240
<v Speaker 2>week and give a little bit of time over to

575
00:31:14.960 --> 00:31:17.759
<v Speaker 2>a small rural business so they can describe what they

576
00:31:17.759 --> 00:31:20.960
<v Speaker 2>do and people can hear about their services. We put

577
00:31:20.960 --> 00:31:23.000
<v Speaker 2>a thing out on x and this is one of

578
00:31:23.039 --> 00:31:25.839
<v Speaker 2>the responses we got. We did get a few others.

579
00:31:25.839 --> 00:31:27.759
<v Speaker 2>They're a bit weird, so we've shoved those at the

580
00:31:27.839 --> 00:31:31.200
<v Speaker 2>end of the episode. You can hear them there. But

581
00:31:31.279 --> 00:31:33.039
<v Speaker 2>for now, this is Jonathan.

582
00:31:35.000 --> 00:31:35.440
<v Speaker 4>Hello.

583
00:31:35.799 --> 00:31:38.039
<v Speaker 6>My name is Jonathan Harpm and I'll run a company

584
00:31:38.079 --> 00:31:40.920
<v Speaker 6>called Ethic collabora Culture and we're based there in the

585
00:31:40.960 --> 00:31:45.200
<v Speaker 6>Fens and we're a triecare company. We specialize in optimors

586
00:31:45.240 --> 00:31:47.440
<v Speaker 6>and the trees health threats into our natural law span

587
00:31:48.039 --> 00:31:50.720
<v Speaker 6>and we do this utilize and some very fancy kit

588
00:31:51.759 --> 00:31:56.559
<v Speaker 6>we can order decompact the soil injecting beneficial natural nutrients

589
00:31:56.559 --> 00:32:00.720
<v Speaker 6>straight into it. We inject trees again nutent strain in

590
00:32:00.839 --> 00:32:04.160
<v Speaker 6>the tree system, or in certain cases we can even

591
00:32:04.200 --> 00:32:06.480
<v Speaker 6>pick them up and move them out of the way

592
00:32:07.279 --> 00:32:08.680
<v Speaker 6>using one of their tree spades.

593
00:32:10.240 --> 00:32:11.440
<v Speaker 1>Um that will do.

594
00:32:12.839 --> 00:32:16.559
<v Speaker 2>And you can read more about Jonathan's services at Ethicalarborder

595
00:32:16.599 --> 00:32:19.799
<v Speaker 2>Culture dot co dot uk. Now back to the show.

596
00:32:23.039 --> 00:32:28.559
<v Speaker 2>Talking of inappropriate behavior, We've had an email, so if

597
00:32:28.559 --> 00:32:30.640
<v Speaker 2>you want to there's an email address in our show

598
00:32:30.640 --> 00:32:32.440
<v Speaker 2>notes if you want to send us some stuff people do,

599
00:32:33.799 --> 00:32:36.160
<v Speaker 2>and we've we've got some future events lined up that

600
00:32:36.200 --> 00:32:40.279
<v Speaker 2>came about from those emails. But this one I'll make

601
00:32:40.319 --> 00:32:44.200
<v Speaker 2>them anonymous, so they say, dear all, I am a

602
00:32:44.240 --> 00:32:47.640
<v Speaker 2>retired solicitor from Oldham, so not your target audience. I

603
00:32:47.680 --> 00:32:51.359
<v Speaker 2>am sure, no, that's that's that's within the bracket. However,

604
00:32:51.519 --> 00:32:54.559
<v Speaker 2>I enjoy listening to your conversations, even though they are

605
00:32:54.640 --> 00:33:00.839
<v Speaker 2>occasionally a bit laddish callum real, especially while working outside

606
00:33:00.839 --> 00:33:02.759
<v Speaker 2>in my garden. So I'm going to skip ahead a

607
00:33:02.759 --> 00:33:06.319
<v Speaker 2>bit here. I feel that I have no concept as

608
00:33:06.319 --> 00:33:09.359
<v Speaker 2>to whether most of our agricultural land is farmed by

609
00:33:09.440 --> 00:33:13.880
<v Speaker 2>huge landowners slash companies on an industrial scale, using agrichemicals

610
00:33:13.920 --> 00:33:17.440
<v Speaker 2>with no thought for wildlife, and merely owning land for

611
00:33:17.480 --> 00:33:22.119
<v Speaker 2>agricultural relief purposes. Alternatively, is most of our land farmed

612
00:33:22.160 --> 00:33:25.160
<v Speaker 2>by small family farmers in a more traditional manner with

613
00:33:25.200 --> 00:33:28.079
<v Speaker 2>an innate love of their land and animals who will

614
00:33:28.119 --> 00:33:32.279
<v Speaker 2>suffer most from the odious loss of agricultural relief. Do

615
00:33:32.359 --> 00:33:36.039
<v Speaker 2>we live in a countryside largely stripped of all its wildlife?

616
00:33:36.480 --> 00:33:38.960
<v Speaker 2>Or is the countryside in a healthier state than that?

617
00:33:39.519 --> 00:33:42.720
<v Speaker 2>Is the countryside becoming more industrialized in its management and

618
00:33:42.799 --> 00:33:46.200
<v Speaker 2>unfriendly towards wildlife, or has there been a step change

619
00:33:46.240 --> 00:33:50.480
<v Speaker 2>towards a more environmentally friendly way of farming over recent years.

620
00:33:51.000 --> 00:33:53.680
<v Speaker 2>What is the balance between these extremes. I would appreciate

621
00:33:53.759 --> 00:33:56.519
<v Speaker 2>your insight as non farmers, but with a strong relationship

622
00:33:56.559 --> 00:33:58.440
<v Speaker 2>with the land. There you go.

623
00:33:58.519 --> 00:34:02.960
<v Speaker 1>Okay, that's you know, that's rather serendipitous that should come through,

624
00:34:03.119 --> 00:34:08.280
<v Speaker 1>And thank you very much for bothering to actually ask us.

625
00:34:08.840 --> 00:34:14.360
<v Speaker 1>I think that it's rather ab aside, because I'm writing

626
00:34:14.400 --> 00:34:18.119
<v Speaker 1>an article at the moment for the Critic, which is

627
00:34:18.400 --> 00:34:25.360
<v Speaker 1>about how we actually got from the about the time

628
00:34:25.400 --> 00:34:28.960
<v Speaker 1>when the repeal of the corn laws in eighteen forty six,

629
00:34:29.079 --> 00:34:32.960
<v Speaker 1>forty eight something like that, and how that shift, how

630
00:34:33.360 --> 00:34:39.840
<v Speaker 1>government then decided that it was better for Britain to

631
00:34:40.239 --> 00:34:45.280
<v Speaker 1>import food than it was to grow it here. Ok.

632
00:34:45.920 --> 00:34:49.840
<v Speaker 1>And so what was the corn law that the corn laws, Well,

633
00:34:50.119 --> 00:34:53.880
<v Speaker 1>there was a I think we're basically we put tariffs

634
00:34:53.920 --> 00:34:59.920
<v Speaker 1>against the imported goods and that was a Tory thing. Wig.

635
00:35:00.639 --> 00:35:04.760
<v Speaker 1>Someone was someone called free traders, and what they believed

636
00:35:04.920 --> 00:35:07.039
<v Speaker 1>was it was better that you should have free trade

637
00:35:07.079 --> 00:35:09.920
<v Speaker 1>so that we could import stuff because ultimately what it

638
00:35:09.960 --> 00:35:13.800
<v Speaker 1>would do would force the price down. So therefore, rather

639
00:35:13.920 --> 00:35:17.719
<v Speaker 1>than ensuring that our farmers earned lots of money that

640
00:35:17.920 --> 00:35:22.599
<v Speaker 1>if you imported food from largely the colonies, because of

641
00:35:22.639 --> 00:35:25.119
<v Speaker 1>course we were, rather we had a pretty win win

642
00:35:25.280 --> 00:35:31.239
<v Speaker 1>situation is that if we imported loads of wheat from Canada,

643
00:35:31.679 --> 00:35:33.960
<v Speaker 1>well we were still getting a drawer out of it,

644
00:35:34.039 --> 00:35:37.880
<v Speaker 1>because you know, Canada part of the Empire. If we

645
00:35:37.960 --> 00:35:44.239
<v Speaker 1>imported once we had frozen transportation and we were able

646
00:35:44.280 --> 00:35:50.760
<v Speaker 1>to import lamb from the colonies of New Zealand and Australia,

647
00:35:51.119 --> 00:35:54.440
<v Speaker 1>well then fantastic, we could import that, but we were

648
00:35:54.480 --> 00:35:56.599
<v Speaker 1>still getting a drawer out of because we owned those

649
00:35:56.639 --> 00:36:00.679
<v Speaker 1>two countries as well. So therefore the free traders were

650
00:36:00.480 --> 00:36:03.960
<v Speaker 1>were very much that we could import food. And that

651
00:36:04.360 --> 00:36:06.880
<v Speaker 1>sounds like a history point. You know what the hell's

652
00:36:06.880 --> 00:36:08.760
<v Speaker 1>that got to do with today? But what it was

653
00:36:08.840 --> 00:36:13.119
<v Speaker 1>the start of was the driving down of food prices.

654
00:36:13.760 --> 00:36:18.639
<v Speaker 1>So therefore farmers in this country had to try and

655
00:36:18.800 --> 00:36:25.679
<v Speaker 1>compete against countries where they could have cheaper production costs,

656
00:36:25.960 --> 00:36:28.960
<v Speaker 1>either because the scale that they could achieve, or otherwise

657
00:36:29.400 --> 00:36:32.679
<v Speaker 1>in more modern days. Let's be perfectly honest. You know,

658
00:36:33.199 --> 00:36:37.719
<v Speaker 1>if we're important costs, labor costs, kenyon beans, well, because

659
00:36:37.719 --> 00:36:40.519
<v Speaker 1>a kenyan is going to get paid buttons compared with

660
00:36:40.599 --> 00:36:42.239
<v Speaker 1>what you're going to have to pay someone for here.

661
00:36:42.559 --> 00:36:45.280
<v Speaker 1>And so of course all these various things that happened.

662
00:36:45.320 --> 00:36:47.960
<v Speaker 1>So actually from the repeal of the corn laws, you've

663
00:36:48.000 --> 00:36:53.159
<v Speaker 1>had this issue. Now, why does that affect wildlife? Well,

664
00:36:53.239 --> 00:36:56.559
<v Speaker 1>largely because the moment you have to start cutting costs,

665
00:36:57.440 --> 00:37:03.639
<v Speaker 1>you increase in industrialization, you increase mechanization, you reduce the

666
00:37:03.760 --> 00:37:06.199
<v Speaker 1>numbers of people who are working on the land. So

667
00:37:06.239 --> 00:37:10.400
<v Speaker 1>therefore a winter work only fifty sixty years ago, but

668
00:37:10.519 --> 00:37:13.280
<v Speaker 1>certainly before the Second World War, winter work on a

669
00:37:13.360 --> 00:37:16.119
<v Speaker 1>farm in Suffolk would have been right, lads, with all

670
00:37:16.159 --> 00:37:19.480
<v Speaker 1>the corners in the grain store, find and do the

671
00:37:19.599 --> 00:37:22.320
<v Speaker 1>off you go, you eight men, you're going off to

672
00:37:22.360 --> 00:37:25.079
<v Speaker 1>go and do the hedgerow management. Well you don't have

673
00:37:25.199 --> 00:37:27.760
<v Speaker 1>that anymore now because you've just got a flail mower,

674
00:37:28.119 --> 00:37:31.800
<v Speaker 1>and so therefore you've reduced all these people. So our

675
00:37:32.239 --> 00:37:37.119
<v Speaker 1>addiction to cheap food, aided and arebtted and enabled by

676
00:37:37.239 --> 00:37:44.039
<v Speaker 1>government has, i would argue, is responsible for the decline

677
00:37:44.119 --> 00:37:47.159
<v Speaker 1>in wildlife. And so when you think about it, in

678
00:37:47.280 --> 00:37:52.199
<v Speaker 1>nineteen seventy three, when we joined what we know as

679
00:37:52.199 --> 00:37:57.280
<v Speaker 1>as the European Union, the UK spent thirty one percent

680
00:37:58.039 --> 00:38:02.880
<v Speaker 1>of its monthly income on buying food, right, that's how

681
00:38:02.920 --> 00:38:06.719
<v Speaker 1>much it costs. By the time we left in twenty twenty,

682
00:38:06.920 --> 00:38:10.480
<v Speaker 1>we bought twice the amount of food for only ten

683
00:38:10.559 --> 00:38:14.960
<v Speaker 1>percent of our monthly budget. So food had becomes so

684
00:38:15.280 --> 00:38:18.320
<v Speaker 1>cheap by that point. Now something's got to give. If

685
00:38:18.360 --> 00:38:22.599
<v Speaker 1>you're going to grow food for that cheap, it means

686
00:38:22.679 --> 00:38:24.800
<v Speaker 1>that wildlife's going to take the hit because you're going

687
00:38:24.840 --> 00:38:27.719
<v Speaker 1>to increasingly rely upon sprays, you're going to increasing rely

688
00:38:27.840 --> 00:38:31.039
<v Speaker 1>upon lots and lots of artificial fertilizers. You're going to

689
00:38:31.079 --> 00:38:34.679
<v Speaker 1>try and eke out every single inch of value from

690
00:38:34.719 --> 00:38:38.400
<v Speaker 1>that field. So it's an interesting point. But I would

691
00:38:38.480 --> 00:38:41.239
<v Speaker 1>say that if you're looking for a point a finger

692
00:38:41.320 --> 00:38:46.480
<v Speaker 1>of blame. It's the consumer, but largely it's the fault

693
00:38:46.519 --> 00:38:51.000
<v Speaker 1>of successive governments of various hues insisting that food must

694
00:38:51.039 --> 00:38:55.159
<v Speaker 1>be cheap, aiding and abetting supermarkets who forced that price

695
00:38:55.199 --> 00:38:57.320
<v Speaker 1>down because they wanted to go into price wars, and

696
00:38:57.360 --> 00:39:03.519
<v Speaker 1>our farmers were forced into a position where they are

697
00:39:04.000 --> 00:39:05.920
<v Speaker 1>and wildlife has suffered as a result.

698
00:39:06.800 --> 00:39:09.239
<v Speaker 3>So let me just need that in a nutshell, I'm

699
00:39:09.239 --> 00:39:11.400
<v Speaker 3>trying to get my head around it. So we've made

700
00:39:12.000 --> 00:39:17.760
<v Speaker 3>food to a price that's that's the cheapest it's ever been.

701
00:39:18.519 --> 00:39:24.119
<v Speaker 3>And as a result, then that the farms aren't having

702
00:39:24.280 --> 00:39:28.159
<v Speaker 3>enough having as many staff as previously.

703
00:39:28.800 --> 00:39:33.440
<v Speaker 1>More industrialization, more specialization, right.

704
00:39:33.320 --> 00:39:37.760
<v Speaker 3>So then that's so the need for food costs to

705
00:39:37.840 --> 00:39:40.880
<v Speaker 3>be cheaper and cheaper and cheaper and cheaper has driven

706
00:39:41.800 --> 00:39:48.800
<v Speaker 3>less people and more and less funding for wildlife, I suppose.

707
00:39:49.639 --> 00:39:53.599
<v Speaker 3>Or is it just just the practices of the farming.

708
00:39:53.760 --> 00:39:56.480
<v Speaker 1>I think the practices of the farming have certainly been

709
00:39:56.760 --> 00:40:00.000
<v Speaker 1>up until we got elms in. I mean, I think

710
00:40:00.119 --> 00:40:04.360
<v Speaker 1>it was about eighty three. Margaret Thatcher was surprisingly green.

711
00:40:04.480 --> 00:40:07.119
<v Speaker 1>It's something that I mean, she was talking about climate

712
00:40:07.239 --> 00:40:09.159
<v Speaker 1>change very early on. At the end of the day,

713
00:40:09.159 --> 00:40:15.079
<v Speaker 1>she was a chemist, she understood the science, and she

714
00:40:15.320 --> 00:40:19.559
<v Speaker 1>brought in the first environmental schemes and funding for farmers

715
00:40:19.599 --> 00:40:23.199
<v Speaker 1>back in about eighty three because they started realizing, ooh,

716
00:40:23.239 --> 00:40:25.599
<v Speaker 1>all this industrial farming which we had been pushing so

717
00:40:25.639 --> 00:40:28.039
<v Speaker 1>that everyone can eat as much as they want for

718
00:40:28.159 --> 00:40:33.199
<v Speaker 1>ten bob and a rabbit skin has had some repercussions.

719
00:40:33.360 --> 00:40:35.800
<v Speaker 1>And then from the eighties through to elms. You know,

720
00:40:35.920 --> 00:40:39.360
<v Speaker 1>now we've got it's completely different. Changed.

721
00:40:40.000 --> 00:40:43.039
<v Speaker 2>And eighty one was a Wildlife in Countryside Act, which

722
00:40:43.119 --> 00:40:48.360
<v Speaker 2>was landmark piece of legislation which encapsulated all ecological management

723
00:40:48.360 --> 00:40:51.079
<v Speaker 2>into law in one place, rather than being scattered across

724
00:40:51.079 --> 00:40:54.599
<v Speaker 2>twenty different things. Somebody once told me that the Wildlife

725
00:40:54.639 --> 00:40:58.599
<v Speaker 2>in Countryside Act was effectively the Antiquities Act recobbled together

726
00:40:58.639 --> 00:41:01.199
<v Speaker 2>and were sort of a find and replaced for schedule

727
00:41:01.280 --> 00:41:04.920
<v Speaker 2>monument and put schedule of protected species. And that's why

728
00:41:04.960 --> 00:41:07.280
<v Speaker 2>I read so weirdly in places when you look at

729
00:41:07.320 --> 00:41:10.480
<v Speaker 2>the protection given to some areas and not others.

730
00:41:10.199 --> 00:41:13.719
<v Speaker 3>So what is I don't really know what the elms,

731
00:41:13.920 --> 00:41:16.320
<v Speaker 3>elms trees.

732
00:41:16.360 --> 00:41:17.039
<v Speaker 2>We used to have.

733
00:41:19.039 --> 00:41:24.639
<v Speaker 1>Elms, the Environmental Land Management Scheme. When we left the EU,

734
00:41:25.280 --> 00:41:31.000
<v Speaker 1>all our funding for farming came under the Common Agricultural Policy,

735
00:41:31.599 --> 00:41:35.920
<v Speaker 1>and so because that was more or less invented for

736
00:41:38.199 --> 00:41:43.559
<v Speaker 1>supporting peasant Portuguese farmers and French farmers who are and

737
00:41:43.639 --> 00:41:46.960
<v Speaker 1>tirettle farms because you know, they have these weird rules

738
00:41:47.000 --> 00:41:50.960
<v Speaker 1>about inheritance and whatnot, and got time little farms. It

739
00:41:51.000 --> 00:41:54.360
<v Speaker 1>was designed for us in Britain where average farm size

740
00:41:54.400 --> 00:41:57.360
<v Speaker 1>was slightly larger. The Common Agricultural Policy with its basic

741
00:41:57.440 --> 00:42:01.519
<v Speaker 1>payment scheme which gave you a amount of money for

742
00:42:01.599 --> 00:42:05.360
<v Speaker 1>the amount of land that you owed, that was a

743
00:42:05.519 --> 00:42:08.559
<v Speaker 1>really good thing, but it was slightly the thing that

744
00:42:08.719 --> 00:42:13.000
<v Speaker 1>encouraged things like milk lakes and grain mountains and what not.

745
00:42:13.679 --> 00:42:17.960
<v Speaker 1>And so then they brought in which was funded through

746
00:42:18.079 --> 00:42:22.519
<v Speaker 1>which was across Europe. This the comryside stewardship schemes there,

747
00:42:22.559 --> 00:42:25.960
<v Speaker 1>which was supposed to enable you to go and apply

748
00:42:26.079 --> 00:42:30.360
<v Speaker 1>for grant funding to do good things for wildlife. But

749
00:42:30.440 --> 00:42:35.280
<v Speaker 1>it also it subsidized your growing food basically by this

750
00:42:35.440 --> 00:42:38.559
<v Speaker 1>basic payment scheme. And the more money that you got

751
00:42:38.800 --> 00:42:41.559
<v Speaker 1>was the bigger the farmer you were. You got more

752
00:42:41.599 --> 00:42:45.480
<v Speaker 1>money if you had more acres. Now, when we left

753
00:42:45.519 --> 00:42:49.599
<v Speaker 1>the European Union, Michael Gove came up with this brilliant

754
00:42:49.639 --> 00:42:52.119
<v Speaker 1>idea because he was the Defra secretary. I think is

755
00:42:52.119 --> 00:42:54.719
<v Speaker 1>a brilliant idea. And actually most farmers thought it was

756
00:42:54.719 --> 00:42:57.679
<v Speaker 1>a good idea, and less possibly it was a little

757
00:42:57.719 --> 00:43:00.760
<v Speaker 1>bit ropy for some of the upland far because they're

758
00:43:00.800 --> 00:43:03.800
<v Speaker 1>so complicated what they have to do up there, and

759
00:43:04.559 --> 00:43:07.880
<v Speaker 1>their margin on what they earn is so tiny. But

760
00:43:08.440 --> 00:43:10.960
<v Speaker 1>the Environmental land Management scheme was this thing is saying

761
00:43:10.960 --> 00:43:14.719
<v Speaker 1>we're going to replace all that European stuff and we're

762
00:43:14.719 --> 00:43:18.360
<v Speaker 1>going to pay you public money for public good. And

763
00:43:18.400 --> 00:43:20.280
<v Speaker 1>in other words, what that was was we aren't going

764
00:43:20.320 --> 00:43:22.719
<v Speaker 1>to subsidize your food. We're going to try and make

765
00:43:22.760 --> 00:43:24.719
<v Speaker 1>you have a nice, wonderful We're going to do all

766
00:43:24.719 --> 00:43:27.960
<v Speaker 1>our politicians stuff and work behind the scenes to go

767
00:43:28.000 --> 00:43:30.639
<v Speaker 1>and get you fantastic trade deal all around the world

768
00:43:31.039 --> 00:43:33.239
<v Speaker 1>so you can export food and we're going to make

769
00:43:33.280 --> 00:43:36.159
<v Speaker 1>sure those nasty supermarkets don't rip you off. But the

770
00:43:36.199 --> 00:43:39.760
<v Speaker 1>money we're going to give you is to improve air quality,

771
00:43:41.000 --> 00:43:46.119
<v Speaker 1>improve habitats for wildlife, water quality, all the public good

772
00:43:46.159 --> 00:43:49.679
<v Speaker 1>in the environment. That's the idea and it worked. It

773
00:43:50.440 --> 00:43:53.599
<v Speaker 1>worked like an absolute charm. This is the weird thing.

774
00:43:53.639 --> 00:43:56.960
<v Speaker 1>I mean, Michael Gove, I would argue was the greatest

775
00:43:57.039 --> 00:44:00.760
<v Speaker 1>death ro secretary we have had in I don't know

776
00:44:00.800 --> 00:44:04.719
<v Speaker 1>how long, And of course, in typical conservative mindset saying oh,

777
00:44:04.800 --> 00:44:07.039
<v Speaker 1>you've done quite well at that, let's go to move

778
00:44:07.079 --> 00:44:11.679
<v Speaker 1>you to somewhere else exactly, it seems to be that

779
00:44:11.760 --> 00:44:14.639
<v Speaker 1>was going yeah, yeah, yes, well done, We're going to

780
00:44:14.679 --> 00:44:16.360
<v Speaker 1>go and shove you off and do something else instead.

781
00:44:16.920 --> 00:44:19.480
<v Speaker 2>You can't possibly have two years of competence in one go.

782
00:44:19.639 --> 00:44:21.480
<v Speaker 4>And have you thought about foreign policy?

783
00:44:21.719 --> 00:44:23.719
<v Speaker 1>Yes exactly, Yes, we're not going to put you off,

784
00:44:23.719 --> 00:44:26.360
<v Speaker 1>and you're going to say how are you with tanks?

785
00:44:26.480 --> 00:44:28.679
<v Speaker 1>Do your tank is? Yes? I do. It's one of

786
00:44:28.679 --> 00:44:30.480
<v Speaker 1>those things of the gun on right off you go

787
00:44:30.719 --> 00:44:32.719
<v Speaker 1>m O D for you mate. You know he was

788
00:44:32.760 --> 00:44:34.840
<v Speaker 1>made the he was made the dutchy of Lancaster book.

789
00:44:34.880 --> 00:44:38.119
<v Speaker 1>You don't even know where lancashyere is anyway, Look.

790
00:44:38.519 --> 00:44:41.760
<v Speaker 3>Did so did they cut? So they cut food subsidies

791
00:44:42.280 --> 00:44:46.199
<v Speaker 3>and then with the intention of backing up elms as

792
00:44:47.599 --> 00:44:51.840
<v Speaker 3>something for environmental good to best practice farming.

793
00:44:52.079 --> 00:44:55.320
<v Speaker 1>Best practice farming precisely that so that we were going

794
00:44:55.360 --> 00:44:57.440
<v Speaker 1>to have where the idea was supposed to be that

795
00:44:57.679 --> 00:45:00.159
<v Speaker 1>the farmers could actually make money from their food is

796
00:45:00.159 --> 00:45:02.679
<v Speaker 1>the fact that they would create market forces that paid

797
00:45:02.679 --> 00:45:05.599
<v Speaker 1>a fair price for they did. But also is that

798
00:45:05.639 --> 00:45:08.000
<v Speaker 1>all the environmental good they had, because let's be honest,

799
00:45:08.039 --> 00:45:11.880
<v Speaker 1>seventy two percent of our land mass still is farmland.

800
00:45:12.239 --> 00:45:13.920
<v Speaker 1>They were saying, well, you're gonna have to look after

801
00:45:13.960 --> 00:45:18.679
<v Speaker 1>that for wildlife, and we the consumer, the taxpayer benefit

802
00:45:19.199 --> 00:45:21.639
<v Speaker 1>by the fact we've got cleaner water, cleaner air, we've

803
00:45:21.679 --> 00:45:23.960
<v Speaker 1>got more wildlife about, we've got more trees, we've got

804
00:45:23.960 --> 00:45:27.760
<v Speaker 1>more hedges, we've got floristic margins, we've got meadow land back.

805
00:45:27.840 --> 00:45:31.320
<v Speaker 1>We have got all the things that all the environmentalists wanted.

806
00:45:32.079 --> 00:45:37.159
<v Speaker 1>So to ask that question, is the countryside and a

807
00:45:37.159 --> 00:45:41.119
<v Speaker 1>healthy estate? I think that little bit there is it Well,

808
00:45:41.239 --> 00:45:44.000
<v Speaker 1>I think it was heading the right way if i'd

809
00:45:44.000 --> 00:45:46.400
<v Speaker 1>be perfuse. I'm not a Tory. I ripped up my

810
00:45:47.360 --> 00:45:51.239
<v Speaker 1>Conservative Party membership card quite a long while ago now,

811
00:45:51.559 --> 00:45:57.840
<v Speaker 1>But I think that Gove created something and he got

812
00:45:58.079 --> 00:46:03.199
<v Speaker 1>some support from Rishi Sunak that really made it a

813
00:46:03.239 --> 00:46:07.400
<v Speaker 1>workable thing. It was so good that the Labor Party

814
00:46:07.440 --> 00:46:09.360
<v Speaker 1>when they came into Powis and we're not going to

815
00:46:09.360 --> 00:46:13.159
<v Speaker 1>touch elms, was there the thing they said? Then they

816
00:46:13.159 --> 00:46:15.239
<v Speaker 1>had them going with this twenty two billion pound black

817
00:46:15.239 --> 00:46:18.440
<v Speaker 1>hole shizzle that they just explain all their stuff away

818
00:46:18.480 --> 00:46:21.079
<v Speaker 1>and then they now buggered it all up. But I

819
00:46:21.079 --> 00:46:23.000
<v Speaker 1>think it was a great scheme, I really do, and

820
00:46:23.039 --> 00:46:25.000
<v Speaker 1>I think that wildlife was getting in a better way.

821
00:46:25.760 --> 00:46:30.119
<v Speaker 2>Isn't it quite telling that we're on a Britain's premiere

822
00:46:30.280 --> 00:46:33.960
<v Speaker 2>rural podcast depending on whose chart you were consult and

823
00:46:34.000 --> 00:46:38.000
<v Speaker 2>not one of us as a tory. That's that interesting?

824
00:46:38.000 --> 00:46:42.039
<v Speaker 1>Isn't that very insightful? I think To answer this question,

825
00:46:43.159 --> 00:46:45.119
<v Speaker 1>and it's a very wide question, and it's one that

826
00:46:45.199 --> 00:46:47.960
<v Speaker 1>probably would take about two hours to fully answer, the

827
00:46:48.000 --> 00:46:52.679
<v Speaker 1>countryside has become more industrialized, and it's become more industrialized

828
00:46:53.280 --> 00:46:56.880
<v Speaker 1>because it had to. But this started back a long,

829
00:46:56.920 --> 00:47:00.119
<v Speaker 1>long while ago. You know. You think of how we

830
00:47:00.199 --> 00:47:06.559
<v Speaker 1>in Britain have always been very very good at inventing

831
00:47:06.719 --> 00:47:13.400
<v Speaker 1>stuff to make farming easier. And you know Bake Well farmer,

832
00:47:13.519 --> 00:47:17.199
<v Speaker 1>George Jethrow Tull, all those people, they all invented stuff

833
00:47:17.239 --> 00:47:20.559
<v Speaker 1>to make farming easier. So we've always been industrializing. But

834
00:47:20.679 --> 00:47:25.880
<v Speaker 1>I think the financial incentives to be more industrialized came

835
00:47:25.960 --> 00:47:33.960
<v Speaker 1>from government, ah and it necessitated the decimation of wildlife

836
00:47:34.000 --> 00:47:37.559
<v Speaker 1>and the wider environment, because the only way that farmers

837
00:47:37.559 --> 00:47:40.239
<v Speaker 1>could keep their head above water and feed the beast

838
00:47:40.760 --> 00:47:45.360
<v Speaker 1>was by doing that. Gove created elms, which reversed that

839
00:47:45.480 --> 00:47:48.039
<v Speaker 1>and was already started. It was in such short order

840
00:47:48.079 --> 00:47:51.039
<v Speaker 1>of how quickly things you could see. My god, there's

841
00:47:51.079 --> 00:47:54.400
<v Speaker 1>more starlings about. My god, there's dunnocks everywhere, all of

842
00:47:54.440 --> 00:47:57.440
<v Speaker 1>a sudden, My god, we've got this. Yes, you could

843
00:47:57.480 --> 00:48:01.480
<v Speaker 1>go to some places, ah and you seeing as much wildlife.

844
00:48:01.519 --> 00:48:04.480
<v Speaker 1>But I mean that's not surprising, because you know, not

845
00:48:04.519 --> 00:48:07.599
<v Speaker 1>all farmers have embraced the ideas. But it was a

846
00:48:07.639 --> 00:48:10.480
<v Speaker 1>great thing, and I think we're now taking a backward

847
00:48:10.639 --> 00:48:13.559
<v Speaker 1>step courtesy of the current government.

848
00:48:14.320 --> 00:48:18.559
<v Speaker 3>At some point I suggested that we should do a

849
00:48:18.599 --> 00:48:22.719
<v Speaker 3>episode of what we'd like or what we think the

850
00:48:22.719 --> 00:48:26.480
<v Speaker 3>countryside looks like in the future. But just looking out,

851
00:48:26.760 --> 00:48:30.920
<v Speaker 3>I don't know. Two a couple of years into the future,

852
00:48:31.639 --> 00:48:34.960
<v Speaker 3>I mean, inflation's running wild through, prices are going up

853
00:48:35.000 --> 00:48:37.800
<v Speaker 3>and up and up. A loaf of bread costs Avivor

854
00:48:39.400 --> 00:48:43.320
<v Speaker 3>what does farming look like in a situation where well

855
00:48:43.559 --> 00:48:46.519
<v Speaker 3>on the trajectory we currently are, What does farming look

856
00:48:46.679 --> 00:48:50.519
<v Speaker 3>like from a standpoint of wildlife? Are we going to

857
00:48:50.519 --> 00:48:55.559
<v Speaker 3>be hammering the most efficient. Let's produce food for the

858
00:48:55.760 --> 00:48:59.719
<v Speaker 3>cheapest as we possibly can because we need to curb

859
00:49:00.599 --> 00:49:07.679
<v Speaker 3>this inflationary issue that we have. Is in the short term,

860
00:49:07.920 --> 00:49:10.800
<v Speaker 3>is wildlife really going to take a hit due to

861
00:49:11.800 --> 00:49:14.239
<v Speaker 3>spiraling costs?

862
00:49:14.760 --> 00:49:16.480
<v Speaker 2>See my whole My take on the whole thing is

863
00:49:16.519 --> 00:49:18.639
<v Speaker 2>it really depends where you're looking. I mean to answer

864
00:49:18.679 --> 00:49:24.159
<v Speaker 2>the original question from our emailer, looking at rural North

865
00:49:24.159 --> 00:49:27.159
<v Speaker 2>Wales compared to looking at rural Suffolk, it's a completely

866
00:49:27.159 --> 00:49:34.679
<v Speaker 2>different world livestock farming versus out arable farming. Just I

867
00:49:34.679 --> 00:49:36.920
<v Speaker 2>mean meant I was meant to be but the client

868
00:49:37.039 --> 00:49:40.280
<v Speaker 2>just canceled. I was meant to be in western Shropshire

869
00:49:40.400 --> 00:49:44.039
<v Speaker 2>tomorrow on the Welsh border. And I've said before this,

870
00:49:44.920 --> 00:49:49.039
<v Speaker 2>particularly in spring, you can blindfold me, take kidnap me,

871
00:49:49.159 --> 00:49:51.159
<v Speaker 2>and then I'll drop me off somewhere and I could

872
00:49:51.159 --> 00:49:52.880
<v Speaker 2>tell you which side of the border I was on,

873
00:49:53.599 --> 00:49:57.159
<v Speaker 2>just based on the land management practices.

874
00:49:58.199 --> 00:49:59.679
<v Speaker 1>Okay, what's the difference is?

875
00:50:00.199 --> 00:50:05.480
<v Speaker 2>So I would say the English side is more diverse

876
00:50:06.280 --> 00:50:09.880
<v Speaker 2>in species in sort of just hetererospecies, planting species or

877
00:50:09.920 --> 00:50:15.480
<v Speaker 2>something like that. More diverse and tree species, different livestock

878
00:50:16.000 --> 00:50:20.119
<v Speaker 2>as well, more of a mix as well a lot

879
00:50:20.159 --> 00:50:23.239
<v Speaker 2>of dairy, but you will start seeing more pigs and

880
00:50:23.239 --> 00:50:25.639
<v Speaker 2>more things like that. In the livestock side of things.

881
00:50:25.840 --> 00:50:31.440
<v Speaker 2>It just feels more pastoral, whereas Whales feels wilder despite

882
00:50:32.239 --> 00:50:36.239
<v Speaker 2>not necessarily having the visible diversity. So part of that

883
00:50:36.320 --> 00:50:39.400
<v Speaker 2>is terrain, part of that soil. Part of that's income

884
00:50:40.280 --> 00:50:43.639
<v Speaker 2>because you just earn more as a farm in England

885
00:50:43.639 --> 00:50:45.480
<v Speaker 2>than you do in Whales, and I know that to

886
00:50:45.480 --> 00:50:49.159
<v Speaker 2>your friends on both sides of the border. Policy makes

887
00:50:49.199 --> 00:50:52.400
<v Speaker 2>a huge difference to that, but also number of people

888
00:50:52.800 --> 00:50:59.239
<v Speaker 2>looking after the land, so there are more people running

889
00:50:59.320 --> 00:51:05.480
<v Speaker 2>smaller farm that cover a smaller area in England than

890
00:51:05.480 --> 00:51:08.199
<v Speaker 2>you have in Whales, whereas Whales you have some fairly

891
00:51:08.239 --> 00:51:12.239
<v Speaker 2>poor farms that cover huge areas. So you can have

892
00:51:12.280 --> 00:51:16.320
<v Speaker 2>a huge acreage of mountainside, very poor scrub mountainside or

893
00:51:16.800 --> 00:51:20.639
<v Speaker 2>unimproved pasture or whatever the coding is these days, that

894
00:51:21.519 --> 00:51:25.639
<v Speaker 2>will dwarf the acreage of somewhere in Shrupture or Herefordshire

895
00:51:25.719 --> 00:51:28.079
<v Speaker 2>or somewhere like that. But the farm in Herefordshire will

896
00:51:28.159 --> 00:51:32.280
<v Speaker 2>probably have three times a turnover. So all of those

897
00:51:32.280 --> 00:51:35.639
<v Speaker 2>factors affect it, which means to say, is the country

898
00:51:35.639 --> 00:51:37.880
<v Speaker 2>sy getting worse or better. Well, it depends where you're looking.

899
00:51:40.119 --> 00:51:43.880
<v Speaker 2>And the thing about the future, I always try and

900
00:51:43.880 --> 00:51:48.199
<v Speaker 2>look for the past to find lessons, and it's the

901
00:51:48.239 --> 00:51:53.679
<v Speaker 2>Industrial Revolution made a weird thing happen. So it's difficult

902
00:51:53.719 --> 00:51:55.960
<v Speaker 2>to sort of tell for certain, because you're only going

903
00:51:55.960 --> 00:52:01.679
<v Speaker 2>off anecdotal accounts and contempt accounts from them, and people

904
00:52:01.719 --> 00:52:05.280
<v Speaker 2>weren't writing much about this sort of thing. Then it

905
00:52:05.320 --> 00:52:07.920
<v Speaker 2>did seem that nature was in a fairly parlor state

906
00:52:08.000 --> 00:52:11.519
<v Speaker 2>at the end of the eighteenth century a lot of farming.

907
00:52:11.639 --> 00:52:14.360
<v Speaker 2>Farming had pretty much reached the pinnacle of what it

908
00:52:14.400 --> 00:52:19.320
<v Speaker 2>could do without mechanization, without industry providing things for it,

909
00:52:19.719 --> 00:52:22.239
<v Speaker 2>which means it was almost like an over farmed organic

910
00:52:22.280 --> 00:52:26.079
<v Speaker 2>farm that you see now, edge to edge, grazing lots,

911
00:52:26.280 --> 00:52:28.880
<v Speaker 2>not much time to rotate between things, trying to get

912
00:52:28.920 --> 00:52:31.119
<v Speaker 2>more and more out of it. Then came along the

913
00:52:31.119 --> 00:52:34.079
<v Speaker 2>Industrial Revolution, and then a lot of people moved to

914
00:52:34.119 --> 00:52:38.039
<v Speaker 2>the cities to working these places, going from your literal

915
00:52:38.039 --> 00:52:41.880
<v Speaker 2>cottage industry to working in a factory, going off there,

916
00:52:42.000 --> 00:52:44.719
<v Speaker 2>going off to be injured in some horrendous mill accent,

917
00:52:45.280 --> 00:52:47.440
<v Speaker 2>or be somewhere. Was it Catherine Cookson who we always

918
00:52:47.440 --> 00:52:49.920
<v Speaker 2>writing about going off to move from the countryside to

919
00:52:49.920 --> 00:52:50.440
<v Speaker 2>the mill, and.

920
00:52:50.480 --> 00:52:54.199
<v Speaker 1>Eighteen fifty one was the first year that there were

921
00:52:54.280 --> 00:52:57.400
<v Speaker 1>more people in the census who lived in urban areas

922
00:52:57.400 --> 00:53:01.360
<v Speaker 1>and the countryside. So I do a talk for various

923
00:53:01.400 --> 00:53:04.199
<v Speaker 1>things saying eighteen fifty one was this pivotal year because

924
00:53:04.239 --> 00:53:07.000
<v Speaker 1>for the first time we stopped being a rural economy

925
00:53:07.039 --> 00:53:10.760
<v Speaker 1>and became an urban economy. And obviously that has carried

926
00:53:10.800 --> 00:53:12.760
<v Speaker 1>on going Now. I think it's about sort of nineteen

927
00:53:12.840 --> 00:53:16.280
<v Speaker 1>percent of the population of this country now live in

928
00:53:16.320 --> 00:53:20.760
<v Speaker 1>rural areas. But of that nineteen percent, it's something like

929
00:53:20.920 --> 00:53:25.199
<v Speaker 1>four percent are actually directly involved in farming, and obviously

930
00:53:25.320 --> 00:53:26.239
<v Speaker 1>then there's others like.

931
00:53:26.280 --> 00:53:29.440
<v Speaker 4>Me and Richard workers.

932
00:53:30.559 --> 00:53:33.800
<v Speaker 1>Probably no, I think it's it's more or less in

933
00:53:33.920 --> 00:53:35.960
<v Speaker 1>stasis now. I don't think it can get any less.

934
00:53:36.320 --> 00:53:39.079
<v Speaker 2>Depends what you call a rural worker as well, because

935
00:53:39.159 --> 00:53:41.320
<v Speaker 2>somebody working on a laptop on a broadband connection in

936
00:53:41.360 --> 00:53:43.119
<v Speaker 2>a cottage, are they a rural worker or not?

937
00:53:43.480 --> 00:53:47.039
<v Speaker 1>Well working on that that's difficult, I suppose, I suppose

938
00:53:47.199 --> 00:53:51.000
<v Speaker 1>frontline troops if you like. But I think one of

939
00:53:51.000 --> 00:53:56.519
<v Speaker 1>the things that's interesting about this issue that Richard highlighted

940
00:53:57.000 --> 00:54:00.760
<v Speaker 1>is to create a one size fits all policy for

941
00:54:00.840 --> 00:54:04.719
<v Speaker 1>farming and also for the environment. So therefore, where ELMS

942
00:54:04.760 --> 00:54:08.880
<v Speaker 1>is really challenging, and where they were starting to get there,

943
00:54:08.960 --> 00:54:13.199
<v Speaker 1>there's an adjunct of ELMS which is called the SFI,

944
00:54:13.320 --> 00:54:18.880
<v Speaker 1>which is a Sustainable Farming initiative which added greater flexibility

945
00:54:19.599 --> 00:54:23.679
<v Speaker 1>to ELMS. And what that was a caterph was the

946
00:54:23.719 --> 00:54:28.360
<v Speaker 1>issue that Richard has said is that you have got

947
00:54:29.559 --> 00:54:32.039
<v Speaker 1>such a difference. You know, I say right at the

948
00:54:32.039 --> 00:54:34.800
<v Speaker 1>start of my book. I don't often talk about my book,

949
00:54:35.159 --> 00:54:38.320
<v Speaker 1>but there is you cannot be an expert on hedges.

950
00:54:38.719 --> 00:54:41.280
<v Speaker 1>It's impossible. You can't be an expert on hedges because

951
00:54:41.480 --> 00:54:44.519
<v Speaker 1>a Dorset hedge compared with the Suffolk hedge is like

952
00:54:44.599 --> 00:54:48.880
<v Speaker 1>comparing Jupiter with Mars, right, they both planets, but utterly different.

953
00:54:49.320 --> 00:54:51.960
<v Speaker 1>So therefore you've got to understand so much about the

954
00:54:52.280 --> 00:55:00.000
<v Speaker 1>intricacies of soil, climate history, geographic location, all these various things,

955
00:55:00.159 --> 00:55:03.880
<v Speaker 1>just weather patterns and systems that to have a one

956
00:55:03.960 --> 00:55:06.880
<v Speaker 1>size fits all policy is very, very difficult. And I

957
00:55:07.000 --> 00:55:09.760
<v Speaker 1>think that they had done this where we've suddenly arrived

958
00:55:09.800 --> 00:55:11.559
<v Speaker 1>as a big problem. So you've asked the question, which

959
00:55:11.559 --> 00:55:14.159
<v Speaker 1>I think is a very good one callum, which is,

960
00:55:14.480 --> 00:55:17.000
<v Speaker 1>where do I see it if this economy keeps going

961
00:55:17.000 --> 00:55:19.599
<v Speaker 1>the way it's going, and what will happen to wildlife?

962
00:55:19.679 --> 00:55:21.920
<v Speaker 1>That's the thing that worries me. Of course, I want

963
00:55:21.920 --> 00:55:24.440
<v Speaker 1>my farmers to be in a good state, because they

964
00:55:24.480 --> 00:55:27.559
<v Speaker 1>can't be green if they are in the red. That

965
00:55:27.679 --> 00:55:32.239
<v Speaker 1>is the first obvious thing. But all of a sudden,

966
00:55:32.360 --> 00:55:36.559
<v Speaker 1>land use under this current administration has changed, so Gove

967
00:55:36.599 --> 00:55:39.360
<v Speaker 1>and the Conservatives and you know, he then went off

968
00:55:39.360 --> 00:55:41.280
<v Speaker 1>and he's stopped being an MP's now the editor of

969
00:55:41.320 --> 00:55:43.360
<v Speaker 1>the Spectator and dah da da da da. But he

970
00:55:43.360 --> 00:55:47.559
<v Speaker 1>had left a situation where we suddenly farmers were starting

971
00:55:47.599 --> 00:55:49.199
<v Speaker 1>to actually we're just in the middle of the big

972
00:55:49.239 --> 00:55:51.559
<v Speaker 1>farmland bird counter at the moment we've suddenly gone. I

973
00:55:51.599 --> 00:55:53.880
<v Speaker 1>would get farmers ring me up, or they'd send me

974
00:55:53.920 --> 00:55:55.920
<v Speaker 1>a WhatsApp and they'd have a little picture of loads

975
00:55:55.960 --> 00:55:58.519
<v Speaker 1>of goldfinches feeding on a feed ride or something like that,

976
00:55:58.840 --> 00:56:02.079
<v Speaker 1>or I say, rich, what's the and you know, I'd

977
00:56:02.159 --> 00:56:05.000
<v Speaker 1>have to go and try and identify some blurry moth

978
00:56:05.159 --> 00:56:07.480
<v Speaker 1>that they had done. Oh I found this on my thing,

979
00:56:07.559 --> 00:56:11.400
<v Speaker 1>because it'd suddenly become quite engaged with nature more and

980
00:56:11.440 --> 00:56:14.880
<v Speaker 1>they were actually interested in it, and they'd almost be bragging, Oh,

981
00:56:14.920 --> 00:56:17.679
<v Speaker 1>I've got sixteen pairs of gray partridges on my place

982
00:56:17.800 --> 00:56:20.320
<v Speaker 1>and you know, and then you'd see someone a bit quiet, Well,

983
00:56:20.400 --> 00:56:23.400
<v Speaker 1>I've got more limits online than you have. All of

984
00:56:23.440 --> 00:56:28.360
<v Speaker 1>a sudden, this current government under that Miliband idiot, is

985
00:56:28.400 --> 00:56:30.840
<v Speaker 1>that he's now looking at land as a place where

986
00:56:30.880 --> 00:56:33.199
<v Speaker 1>he can put solar panels and wind turbines, because his

987
00:56:33.360 --> 00:56:38.440
<v Speaker 1>idea of being green is this fictitious energy system that

988
00:56:38.519 --> 00:56:40.760
<v Speaker 1>he's got, which we all know anyone who can count

989
00:56:40.840 --> 00:56:44.000
<v Speaker 1>up to sort of five on one hand can say

990
00:56:44.239 --> 00:56:47.559
<v Speaker 1>it doesn't add up. And so therefore what he's trying

991
00:56:47.599 --> 00:56:51.159
<v Speaker 1>to do is do a land grab to put green

992
00:56:51.280 --> 00:56:55.239
<v Speaker 1>energy production on places. And I don't think in the

993
00:56:55.639 --> 00:56:57.800
<v Speaker 1>grand scheme of things that this is going to be

994
00:56:57.960 --> 00:57:03.679
<v Speaker 1>that good for wildlife, and it's obviously appalling for our

995
00:57:03.719 --> 00:57:08.920
<v Speaker 1>food sustainability and security. So therefore, I think, to answer

996
00:57:08.960 --> 00:57:13.599
<v Speaker 1>your question, callum, where are we at If this economy

997
00:57:13.639 --> 00:57:16.639
<v Speaker 1>keeps going the same way. It's only going to hit

998
00:57:16.800 --> 00:57:19.480
<v Speaker 1>us in our pockets, but it's also going to kick

999
00:57:19.519 --> 00:57:22.519
<v Speaker 1>the poor old yellow hammer right in the egg laying department.

1000
00:57:23.400 --> 00:57:28.320
<v Speaker 1>And I think to answer our question that we were

1001
00:57:28.360 --> 00:57:34.199
<v Speaker 1>set by our listener. I would say that that piece

1002
00:57:34.239 --> 00:57:38.199
<v Speaker 1>where she said, have we become more industrialized? Yes, and

1003
00:57:38.280 --> 00:57:42.079
<v Speaker 1>we have discussed as the reason why we had turned

1004
00:57:42.079 --> 00:57:47.039
<v Speaker 1>a corner. And we were still industrially farming land to

1005
00:57:47.079 --> 00:57:50.719
<v Speaker 1>grow food, but we were almost farming just as industrially

1006
00:57:51.079 --> 00:57:54.800
<v Speaker 1>for nature as well. We were creating mixes, we were

1007
00:57:54.840 --> 00:58:01.039
<v Speaker 1>creating cover crops, we were creating floristic mixes which worked

1008
00:58:01.840 --> 00:58:06.000
<v Speaker 1>far above what if you just left it to nature

1009
00:58:06.079 --> 00:58:07.840
<v Speaker 1>to do. Because we've buggered up the lamb for such

1010
00:58:07.840 --> 00:58:09.679
<v Speaker 1>a long while, you couldn't just rewild it because it

1011
00:58:09.679 --> 00:58:13.639
<v Speaker 1>doesn't work. So therefore, companies are OHK, banking, kings and

1012
00:58:13.679 --> 00:58:17.159
<v Speaker 1>places that had developed all these seed mixes that you

1013
00:58:17.159 --> 00:58:19.679
<v Speaker 1>could sow and drill, and they were getting funded by

1014
00:58:19.719 --> 00:58:22.639
<v Speaker 1>the government, and they were punching above their weight for wildlife.

1015
00:58:22.719 --> 00:58:25.400
<v Speaker 1>The GWCT had done all this research. If you put

1016
00:58:25.440 --> 00:58:28.599
<v Speaker 1>these here in this situation, in this soil, this will work.

1017
00:58:29.119 --> 00:58:32.599
<v Speaker 1>It was going so well, and I fear we're going

1018
00:58:32.599 --> 00:58:35.480
<v Speaker 1>to have a terrible industrial future and we're going to

1019
00:58:35.480 --> 00:58:37.719
<v Speaker 1>see nothing but wind turbines, and we're going to see

1020
00:58:37.719 --> 00:58:40.519
<v Speaker 1>nothing but bloody solar panels, and nature is going to

1021
00:58:40.639 --> 00:58:44.079
<v Speaker 1>not thank us one bit, and I would imagine that

1022
00:58:44.639 --> 00:58:46.760
<v Speaker 1>that's the way it's going to go, and we won't

1023
00:58:46.760 --> 00:58:47.880
<v Speaker 1>be any rich or better fed.

1024
00:58:48.440 --> 00:58:50.719
<v Speaker 2>Yeah, I think that removal of the removal of the

1025
00:58:50.800 --> 00:58:54.760
<v Speaker 2>money is going to be the biggest factor because you

1026
00:58:54.800 --> 00:58:58.119
<v Speaker 2>can Okay, so for nature, you can do two things.

1027
00:58:58.480 --> 00:59:02.440
<v Speaker 2>You can either do some really positive management, which has

1028
00:59:02.480 --> 00:59:05.239
<v Speaker 2>to be careful but also has to be quite intensive

1029
00:59:05.280 --> 00:59:07.800
<v Speaker 2>in places in the hedge lettings, fairly intensive. You're cutting

1030
00:59:07.800 --> 00:59:09.880
<v Speaker 2>out a big chunk of stuff and throwing it to

1031
00:59:09.920 --> 00:59:12.159
<v Speaker 2>one side to make something that will be good then

1032
00:59:12.199 --> 00:59:15.599
<v Speaker 2>for twenty years, but it's going to be targeted. You've

1033
00:59:15.599 --> 00:59:17.719
<v Speaker 2>got to do it in a way that makes sense

1034
00:59:17.760 --> 00:59:20.400
<v Speaker 2>across an entire landscape. The other thing you can do

1035
00:59:20.639 --> 00:59:24.920
<v Speaker 2>is just walk away and leave it, which isn't actually

1036
00:59:25.239 --> 00:59:27.360
<v Speaker 2>bad for nature, but what it does do is take

1037
00:59:27.400 --> 00:59:30.559
<v Speaker 2>a long long time for the effects of man to stop.

1038
00:59:31.159 --> 00:59:33.519
<v Speaker 2>So I won't say where it is, but I've been

1039
00:59:33.559 --> 00:59:36.760
<v Speaker 2>observing over the last couple of years natural region at

1040
00:59:36.760 --> 00:59:40.599
<v Speaker 2>a big estate somewhere in England that's being left for rewilding,

1041
00:59:41.119 --> 00:59:43.400
<v Speaker 2>and every time I go there, I can still see

1042
00:59:43.880 --> 00:59:46.280
<v Speaker 2>the lines of the crops that were put there five

1043
00:59:46.360 --> 00:59:50.239
<v Speaker 2>years ago, because that soil is going to take a

1044
00:59:50.320 --> 00:59:53.599
<v Speaker 2>decade to start looking like a meadow again. It just

1045
00:59:53.599 --> 00:59:55.440
<v Speaker 2>looks like a scrubby field that's been left to go over,

1046
00:59:55.480 --> 00:59:57.800
<v Speaker 2>and the same with lots of the other corners. So

1047
00:59:58.280 --> 01:00:00.719
<v Speaker 2>nature will restore, but it will take decades to do.

1048
01:00:01.679 --> 01:00:03.480
<v Speaker 2>And that's what people always get wrong with this. You know,

1049
01:00:03.519 --> 01:00:07.599
<v Speaker 2>the sheepwrecked mountain landscape of whales. Yes, the sheep are

1050
01:00:07.760 --> 01:00:10.480
<v Speaker 2>eating the saplings and preventing anything else from growing up

1051
01:00:10.519 --> 01:00:14.039
<v Speaker 2>to that there. But if you took the sheep off,

1052
01:00:14.079 --> 01:00:18.400
<v Speaker 2>it would then still be a scrubby, fairly poor landscape,

1053
01:00:18.400 --> 01:00:20.880
<v Speaker 2>then covered in these weird grasses as well, and then

1054
01:00:20.880 --> 01:00:22.599
<v Speaker 2>you might get some heather coming back, but then the

1055
01:00:22.639 --> 01:00:24.440
<v Speaker 2>heather would just get burnt off the first time as

1056
01:00:24.440 --> 01:00:27.199
<v Speaker 2>a wildfire. It would take a long long time for

1057
01:00:27.199 --> 01:00:29.159
<v Speaker 2>the trees to return back as well. It's not happening

1058
01:00:29.199 --> 01:00:31.880
<v Speaker 2>in your lifetime to any significant amount. If you want

1059
01:00:31.920 --> 01:00:34.159
<v Speaker 2>to return it. If you want to change a landscape

1060
01:00:34.159 --> 01:00:36.280
<v Speaker 2>to look like something else, to make it a better

1061
01:00:36.360 --> 01:00:39.159
<v Speaker 2>habitat for a species or a set of species, or

1062
01:00:39.199 --> 01:00:42.519
<v Speaker 2>to improve the balance to offset something else elsewhere, you

1063
01:00:42.719 --> 01:00:44.519
<v Speaker 2>have to manage it. You have to do stuff to

1064
01:00:44.559 --> 01:00:48.360
<v Speaker 2>it and all that money is going. Almost the best

1065
01:00:48.360 --> 01:00:50.320
<v Speaker 2>bet for nature in a lot of these places is

1066
01:00:50.599 --> 01:00:52.639
<v Speaker 2>that it can just be left alone to do something

1067
01:00:52.719 --> 01:00:56.920
<v Speaker 2>for at the timescale it needs. And that's the other thing.

1068
01:00:57.599 --> 01:01:01.440
<v Speaker 2>The people aspect of this, because I think we're going

1069
01:01:01.519 --> 01:01:05.159
<v Speaker 2>to have almost well, we're already seeing it people returning

1070
01:01:05.159 --> 01:01:08.079
<v Speaker 2>to wanting to move out of cities and live in

1071
01:01:08.159 --> 01:01:11.440
<v Speaker 2>rural areas, because living in a rural area now compared

1072
01:01:11.480 --> 01:01:14.960
<v Speaker 2>to say even two thousand and nine, it's hugely different.

1073
01:01:15.000 --> 01:01:16.480
<v Speaker 2>In two thousand and nine it might as well have

1074
01:01:16.480 --> 01:01:20.400
<v Speaker 2>been the eighties living in rural Northeast Wales. No internet,

1075
01:01:21.039 --> 01:01:24.320
<v Speaker 2>there's no buses, everything's still in black and white. You

1076
01:01:24.360 --> 01:01:27.800
<v Speaker 2>couldn't do much. But now I'm sat here on one

1077
01:01:27.840 --> 01:01:31.719
<v Speaker 2>hundred and fifty megabit internet connection. There's no difference to

1078
01:01:31.760 --> 01:01:35.000
<v Speaker 2>me between me and Callums relatively urban sort of edge

1079
01:01:35.000 --> 01:01:38.119
<v Speaker 2>of village place where he is, and we've got good

1080
01:01:38.119 --> 01:01:41.639
<v Speaker 2>access and there's a Greg's drive through opening in the

1081
01:01:41.639 --> 01:01:44.400
<v Speaker 2>local town at some point. You know, if you're living

1082
01:01:44.440 --> 01:01:48.519
<v Speaker 2>here as a commuter village, it's not much difference to

1083
01:01:48.960 --> 01:01:51.920
<v Speaker 2>somewhere just outside of Chester, what's ten fifteen years ago.

1084
01:01:52.320 --> 01:01:54.400
<v Speaker 2>So they'll have a lot more people moving here, a lot.

1085
01:01:54.679 --> 01:01:57.199
<v Speaker 2>All the new houses are being built in villages and

1086
01:01:57.280 --> 01:02:00.719
<v Speaker 2>the edges of green towns, which means new road, which

1087
01:02:00.760 --> 01:02:04.199
<v Speaker 2>means new access things, which means compacted soil for a

1088
01:02:04.239 --> 01:02:08.599
<v Speaker 2>long way around from all the construction site. I'm a

1089
01:02:08.599 --> 01:02:11.360
<v Speaker 2>little bit less worried about the lack of money for

1090
01:02:11.480 --> 01:02:16.280
<v Speaker 2>management of landscapes, and I'm more worried about the change

1091
01:02:16.320 --> 01:02:21.360
<v Speaker 2>in population density in places, because adding people to an

1092
01:02:21.400 --> 01:02:25.840
<v Speaker 2>area means wildlife always has a poorer outcome. It never wins.

1093
01:02:26.639 --> 01:02:28.280
<v Speaker 1>I'm with you on that. I'm with you on that,

1094
01:02:28.320 --> 01:02:33.320
<v Speaker 1>and I okay, here's an interesting thing. And again it

1095
01:02:33.360 --> 01:02:39.599
<v Speaker 1>shows the difference between regions and even regions within counties.

1096
01:02:42.360 --> 01:02:46.760
<v Speaker 1>The Breckland, which is the north bit of Suffolk, and

1097
01:02:46.800 --> 01:02:48.519
<v Speaker 1>the south.

1098
01:02:49.239 --> 01:02:49.960
<v Speaker 2>The bittery bit.

1099
01:02:50.880 --> 01:02:55.519
<v Speaker 1>No, that's more the bittens are over the broads, the

1100
01:02:55.599 --> 01:02:58.760
<v Speaker 1>brecks are these very dry. It is the driest place

1101
01:03:00.239 --> 01:03:03.119
<v Speaker 1>Stanton down that it's always the thing. It's the driest.

1102
01:03:03.559 --> 01:03:05.920
<v Speaker 1>I think it has the record for the coldest place

1103
01:03:06.079 --> 01:03:09.119
<v Speaker 1>in England, the hottest place and the driest. It is

1104
01:03:09.119 --> 01:03:12.440
<v Speaker 1>an utterly bizarre place in and that's one of the

1105
01:03:12.480 --> 01:03:15.159
<v Speaker 1>reasons why they made so vast swathes of it into

1106
01:03:15.199 --> 01:03:17.960
<v Speaker 1>a military training area near Thetford and the Thetford Forest

1107
01:03:17.960 --> 01:03:20.920
<v Speaker 1>and one on. And one of the interesting things that

1108
01:03:20.960 --> 01:03:26.800
<v Speaker 1>there's a fantastic, fascinating scientist called Paul Dolman who's a

1109
01:03:26.840 --> 01:03:30.760
<v Speaker 1>professor at the UEA, and he's done a lot with

1110
01:03:30.840 --> 01:03:34.079
<v Speaker 1>the farm cluster up there, and they're looking at because

1111
01:03:34.119 --> 01:03:39.039
<v Speaker 1>they had this absolutely superb and unique flora and fauna,

1112
01:03:39.360 --> 01:03:42.199
<v Speaker 1>but particularly the flora that was there, and a lot

1113
01:03:42.239 --> 01:03:46.840
<v Speaker 1>of it relied upon the old heath being there and

1114
01:03:46.880 --> 01:03:49.719
<v Speaker 1>that it was being gnawed down to the quick by rabbits.

1115
01:03:49.800 --> 01:03:53.440
<v Speaker 1>Now bear in mind the rabbit is a non native creature,

1116
01:03:53.559 --> 01:03:58.519
<v Speaker 1>but the brex had been created by rabbits largely just

1117
01:03:58.559 --> 01:04:03.119
<v Speaker 1>gnawing the this very poor, sandy, gritty soil down to

1118
01:04:03.199 --> 01:04:07.719
<v Speaker 1>and these weird little things started growing in there and

1119
01:04:07.760 --> 01:04:10.039
<v Speaker 1>that was the only place you'd find them in the UK, where,

1120
01:04:10.039 --> 01:04:13.559
<v Speaker 1>of course the rabbits all died. The farming practice has

1121
01:04:13.679 --> 01:04:16.280
<v Speaker 1>changed because we're so blooming clever. We managed to learn

1122
01:04:16.320 --> 01:04:19.719
<v Speaker 1>if you've destone this place and you can actually turn

1123
01:04:19.760 --> 01:04:22.079
<v Speaker 1>it into vegetable growing land. It's nice and light and

1124
01:04:22.119 --> 01:04:24.599
<v Speaker 1>so therefore if you put enough fertilizer in it you

1125
01:04:24.599 --> 01:04:29.000
<v Speaker 1>can grow vegetables. After about ten crops is absolutely knackered

1126
01:04:29.559 --> 01:04:32.360
<v Speaker 1>and if you leave it alone, it goes back to

1127
01:04:32.519 --> 01:04:37.760
<v Speaker 1>heath relatively quickly. But the downside is not what breckland

1128
01:04:37.840 --> 01:04:40.840
<v Speaker 1>used to be because there aren't any rabbits anymore. So

1129
01:04:40.880 --> 01:04:43.719
<v Speaker 1>therefore is if you're looking at it, the idea of

1130
01:04:43.760 --> 01:04:47.920
<v Speaker 1>rewilding breckland, you can't do it because you lose all

1131
01:04:47.960 --> 01:04:51.599
<v Speaker 1>these unique bits of flora. So what they actually do

1132
01:04:52.039 --> 01:04:56.159
<v Speaker 1>is that they go in with essentially a power harrow

1133
01:04:56.559 --> 01:04:59.719
<v Speaker 1>and they bash up vast suedes of this heath and

1134
01:04:59.760 --> 01:05:02.800
<v Speaker 1>to try and recreate what the rabbits were doing. And hey,

1135
01:05:02.800 --> 01:05:04.480
<v Speaker 1>press the it's the only way they could come back.

1136
01:05:04.719 --> 01:05:08.440
<v Speaker 1>Some bright spark from the Wildlife Trust said let's reintroduce rabbits,

1137
01:05:08.480 --> 01:05:11.079
<v Speaker 1>which they did, and then they all died because the

1138
01:05:11.079 --> 01:05:15.280
<v Speaker 1>diseases of VHD and mixed motosas were still there. But

1139
01:05:15.599 --> 01:05:19.360
<v Speaker 1>it shows you that if you want sometimes to get

1140
01:05:19.400 --> 01:05:22.320
<v Speaker 1>this just this idea of shutting the farm gate, walking

1141
01:05:22.320 --> 01:05:25.920
<v Speaker 1>away and say let's rewild it, it doesn't work. But also,

1142
01:05:26.000 --> 01:05:30.400
<v Speaker 1>more to the point, even if you follow you think

1143
01:05:30.400 --> 01:05:33.559
<v Speaker 1>about farmland, right, it grows our food and so if

1144
01:05:33.599 --> 01:05:35.280
<v Speaker 1>you think stuff it am I going to import all

1145
01:05:35.320 --> 01:05:37.760
<v Speaker 1>our food and we're going to put wind turbines all

1146
01:05:37.760 --> 01:05:39.519
<v Speaker 1>over it, and we're going to put solar panels all

1147
01:05:39.519 --> 01:05:42.199
<v Speaker 1>over it. It's not rewilding, is it, Because it's not

1148
01:05:42.320 --> 01:05:44.840
<v Speaker 1>wild because you've got these bloody great big turbines and

1149
01:05:44.880 --> 01:05:49.559
<v Speaker 1>thing and solar panels everywhere. So therefore there is always

1150
01:05:49.559 --> 01:05:52.079
<v Speaker 1>someone wanting to do some land use, you know, either

1151
01:05:52.119 --> 01:05:54.159
<v Speaker 1>grow food and make a profit out of it, or

1152
01:05:54.159 --> 01:05:56.440
<v Speaker 1>put turbines and panels up and make a profit out

1153
01:05:56.440 --> 01:06:00.519
<v Speaker 1>of it. So therefore I think rewilding although an excellent idea,

1154
01:06:00.760 --> 01:06:03.840
<v Speaker 1>and I think every county should have a wildcn hill

1155
01:06:03.920 --> 01:06:07.679
<v Speaker 1>and a NEP, but it only needs one and the

1156
01:06:07.719 --> 01:06:11.880
<v Speaker 1>rest of it we should be able to farm because

1157
01:06:11.920 --> 01:06:14.920
<v Speaker 1>we need to eat, and we should be more food sufficient.

1158
01:06:15.480 --> 01:06:18.440
<v Speaker 1>But the bits that you don't need to farm, the

1159
01:06:18.559 --> 01:06:24.000
<v Speaker 1>land sparing, should be managed and it should be managed

1160
01:06:24.039 --> 01:06:27.400
<v Speaker 1>in such a way that it is bashing above its

1161
01:06:28.079 --> 01:06:31.280
<v Speaker 1>weight for wildlife. And this is where the rewilders and

1162
01:06:31.320 --> 01:06:36.800
<v Speaker 1>the conservationists have a locking of horns. And I think

1163
01:06:36.880 --> 01:06:39.280
<v Speaker 1>that is the answer to the question that we have

1164
01:06:39.360 --> 01:06:43.320
<v Speaker 1>been set is that yes, we've become industrialized and isn't

1165
01:06:43.320 --> 01:06:49.199
<v Speaker 1>it good? Because industrializing to make it better for nature

1166
01:06:50.159 --> 01:06:53.000
<v Speaker 1>is a great thing because we humans are part of nature,

1167
01:06:53.320 --> 01:06:55.960
<v Speaker 1>and so therefore, why shouldn't we use our intellect to

1168
01:06:56.000 --> 01:06:58.000
<v Speaker 1>try and undo some of the dirty stuff that we've

1169
01:06:58.079 --> 01:07:01.559
<v Speaker 1>done since eighteen forty six they bought in the repeal

1170
01:07:01.559 --> 01:07:06.119
<v Speaker 1>of the corn laws. What do you think? Callum?

1171
01:07:04.119 --> 01:07:09.760
<v Speaker 3>A lot of people, So a lot of people do

1172
01:07:09.800 --> 01:07:13.559
<v Speaker 3>say rewilding doesn't work, and I have seen quite a

1173
01:07:13.599 --> 01:07:17.000
<v Speaker 3>lot of evidence to show such stuff.

1174
01:07:17.440 --> 01:07:19.280
<v Speaker 4>But then equally.

1175
01:07:19.920 --> 01:07:27.760
<v Speaker 3>There's places where places get leveled and quickly trees grow,

1176
01:07:28.559 --> 01:07:32.559
<v Speaker 3>particularly fast growing trees, and within ten years there is

1177
01:07:32.599 --> 01:07:40.800
<v Speaker 3>a reasonable amount of biodiversity that does come back you yeah, yeah,

1178
01:07:40.800 --> 01:07:47.880
<v Speaker 3>But for other things that aren't curlews, I have I

1179
01:07:47.920 --> 01:07:51.199
<v Speaker 3>did do a bit of researching because quite a lot

1180
01:07:51.239 --> 01:07:55.199
<v Speaker 3>of people have said before that rewilding absolutely doesn't work,

1181
01:07:56.360 --> 01:07:58.280
<v Speaker 3>and it appears in some edge cases.

1182
01:07:59.280 --> 01:07:59.920
<v Speaker 4>I think it might.

1183
01:08:01.000 --> 01:08:03.679
<v Speaker 2>It depends what depends what people's definition rewilding is. If

1184
01:08:03.679 --> 01:08:06.159
<v Speaker 2>it's just get hands off, then all you're going to

1185
01:08:06.199 --> 01:08:08.199
<v Speaker 2>do is then the back of climax of vegetation until

1186
01:08:08.239 --> 01:08:11.679
<v Speaker 2>there's a fire, it burns down and your reset.

1187
01:08:11.280 --> 01:08:13.440
<v Speaker 1>In Californians, how that goes.

1188
01:08:14.760 --> 01:08:18.840
<v Speaker 3>I'm particularly thinking there was some stuff about some woodland

1189
01:08:19.119 --> 01:08:23.560
<v Speaker 3>that people had left, and within ten years some quite

1190
01:08:23.680 --> 01:08:29.840
<v Speaker 3>nice sizeable trees grew back and the forest looked healthy

1191
01:08:30.520 --> 01:08:35.399
<v Speaker 3>and not not as terrible as it could do. But

1192
01:08:35.439 --> 01:08:38.159
<v Speaker 3>I should imagine this probably as well as rewilding, there's

1193
01:08:38.159 --> 01:08:42.319
<v Speaker 3>probably somebody on a nearby state doing a deer management

1194
01:08:42.399 --> 01:08:44.800
<v Speaker 3>plan and some other stuff as well that go that

1195
01:08:44.880 --> 01:08:45.560
<v Speaker 3>go alongside.

1196
01:08:45.600 --> 01:08:48.520
<v Speaker 2>We've had that humans on these islands for a long,

1197
01:08:48.640 --> 01:08:51.359
<v Speaker 2>long long time now buggering it up. It hasn't been

1198
01:08:51.439 --> 01:08:56.399
<v Speaker 2>wild for many thousands of years. So the rewilding part

1199
01:08:56.560 --> 01:08:59.680
<v Speaker 2>is it's a bit like like a listed building status.

1200
01:09:00.159 --> 01:09:02.760
<v Speaker 2>I think you've got to decide, okay, which bit are

1201
01:09:02.800 --> 01:09:05.800
<v Speaker 2>you preserving? Which state are you going? Because I've seen

1202
01:09:05.880 --> 01:09:09.800
<v Speaker 2>listed buildings from the sixties, you know, because it's preserving

1203
01:09:09.800 --> 01:09:14.560
<v Speaker 2>an architectural style of the mid twentieth century, which means

1204
01:09:14.640 --> 01:09:18.399
<v Speaker 2>you're stuck with your law and you and you weird

1205
01:09:18.439 --> 01:09:22.680
<v Speaker 2>brickwork and stuff like that. So which when you're rewilding,

1206
01:09:22.720 --> 01:09:26.640
<v Speaker 2>where are you going back to? And I think that's

1207
01:09:27.880 --> 01:09:30.840
<v Speaker 2>the problem I have with the term rewilding is I

1208
01:09:30.920 --> 01:09:35.159
<v Speaker 2>never know what that person means when they say, rewilding.

1209
01:09:36.479 --> 01:09:38.800
<v Speaker 3>Just turning it like you said that, you said that

1210
01:09:39.159 --> 01:09:42.479
<v Speaker 3>that trees might not return in your lifetime, which is

1211
01:09:42.560 --> 01:09:48.520
<v Speaker 3>probably true in a vast amount of places that Like, So,

1212
01:09:48.640 --> 01:09:55.960
<v Speaker 3>I've got an area around where I live that has

1213
01:09:56.119 --> 01:10:01.159
<v Speaker 3>changed rapidly over the past like twenty years, and the

1214
01:10:01.239 --> 01:10:06.159
<v Speaker 3>only it's largely just left alone. They grace horses on it,

1215
01:10:08.239 --> 01:10:11.760
<v Speaker 3>and it's just left alone. But it doesn't really change.

1216
01:10:11.800 --> 01:10:15.840
<v Speaker 3>The only thing that did change is it became very

1217
01:10:15.880 --> 01:10:24.640
<v Speaker 3>marshy due to a leak that the local authority won't rectify,

1218
01:10:24.880 --> 01:10:28.359
<v Speaker 3>and now we have like quite an interesting area of

1219
01:10:28.439 --> 01:10:31.800
<v Speaker 3>what you could only describe as wet woodland thanks to

1220
01:10:31.800 --> 01:10:35.960
<v Speaker 3>the leaky which is which is actually a very unintentioned

1221
01:10:37.199 --> 01:10:38.880
<v Speaker 3>good consequence.

1222
01:10:40.039 --> 01:10:42.680
<v Speaker 1>I think one of the things that things is is

1223
01:10:42.720 --> 01:10:45.920
<v Speaker 1>that it's like most of the debates in the countryside

1224
01:10:45.960 --> 01:10:49.960
<v Speaker 1>and about farming, is that rewildings seem to be a

1225
01:10:50.000 --> 01:10:53.079
<v Speaker 1>fantastic idea because if you think about it, it spends.

1226
01:10:53.319 --> 01:10:56.680
<v Speaker 1>You know, I get paid not a huge amount of money,

1227
01:10:56.680 --> 01:10:58.800
<v Speaker 1>but I get paid money to go and lay hedges.

1228
01:10:59.000 --> 01:11:01.560
<v Speaker 1>The idea about rewind thing is that basically, you buy

1229
01:11:01.600 --> 01:11:04.560
<v Speaker 1>this farm and you shut all the gates and you

1230
01:11:04.600 --> 01:11:07.239
<v Speaker 1>block up the drains and you walk away and hay

1231
01:11:07.279 --> 01:11:10.520
<v Speaker 1>press though as if by magic or the wildlife will

1232
01:11:10.520 --> 01:11:16.600
<v Speaker 1>come back. Now we do as conservationists, practical conservationists, we

1233
01:11:16.680 --> 01:11:21.439
<v Speaker 1>try and create wilder spaces around the edge, but we

1234
01:11:21.520 --> 01:11:24.760
<v Speaker 1>create them well. That the Rewilders argument is that nature

1235
01:11:24.800 --> 01:11:27.960
<v Speaker 1>knows it better than me and Richard Gould, right, that's

1236
01:11:28.039 --> 01:11:32.880
<v Speaker 1>the which is probably true. But the problem is is

1237
01:11:32.920 --> 01:11:36.600
<v Speaker 1>that how soils behave, particularly when they've been intensely farmed

1238
01:11:36.640 --> 01:11:39.640
<v Speaker 1>for such a long while, or you've got circumstances like

1239
01:11:39.680 --> 01:11:45.119
<v Speaker 1>I've explained in the Brex there whereby circumstances dating back

1240
01:11:45.159 --> 01:11:48.760
<v Speaker 1>to when the Normans bought rabbits over I mean, good god,

1241
01:11:49.640 --> 01:11:52.479
<v Speaker 1>it's it's it's something that you then have to go

1242
01:11:52.520 --> 01:11:54.680
<v Speaker 1>and recreate that because you want to go and have

1243
01:11:54.760 --> 01:11:56.960
<v Speaker 1>this space, you have to have human intervention because if

1244
01:11:56.960 --> 01:11:59.520
<v Speaker 1>you actually just left the bres alone, it's missing that

1245
01:11:59.640 --> 01:12:02.359
<v Speaker 1>vitally ingredient of rabbits, which we know we can't bring

1246
01:12:02.399 --> 01:12:05.520
<v Speaker 1>back because it will die. So therefore, what you're going

1247
01:12:05.560 --> 01:12:07.840
<v Speaker 1>to do if you want the brex or do you

1248
01:12:07.840 --> 01:12:10.840
<v Speaker 1>want to have that? So I think that human intervention

1249
01:12:11.840 --> 01:12:13.800
<v Speaker 1>is a necessity.

1250
01:12:15.119 --> 01:12:17.840
<v Speaker 2>Back to the ice Age well, but even then there

1251
01:12:17.840 --> 01:12:21.680
<v Speaker 2>are the mix of animals we had has changed, and

1252
01:12:21.760 --> 01:12:25.039
<v Speaker 2>the reason things changed after the Ice Age because certain

1253
01:12:25.079 --> 01:12:28.039
<v Speaker 2>things died out, because the habitat changed, because the climate changed,

1254
01:12:28.520 --> 01:12:31.960
<v Speaker 2>which led to greatest amounts of some populations and less

1255
01:12:31.960 --> 01:12:35.119
<v Speaker 2>of others. We can't return back to some fabled point

1256
01:12:35.479 --> 01:12:38.640
<v Speaker 2>unless you remove the humans as well and carefully sculpt

1257
01:12:38.680 --> 01:12:41.199
<v Speaker 2>things back into that point and then sort of start

1258
01:12:41.239 --> 01:12:44.840
<v Speaker 2>the clock again. Because if you took out the forty

1259
01:12:44.840 --> 01:12:47.479
<v Speaker 2>acres of fields behind the house here that are not mine,

1260
01:12:48.000 --> 01:12:50.239
<v Speaker 2>just stop farming, just didn't do anything with it. Yeah,

1261
01:12:50.239 --> 01:12:51.760
<v Speaker 2>there'd be trees grown up in the fields within a

1262
01:12:51.800 --> 01:12:54.359
<v Speaker 2>couple of years, and there'll be all sorts. It would

1263
01:12:54.359 --> 01:12:58.960
<v Speaker 2>also be KFC for foxes because there isn't much ground

1264
01:12:58.960 --> 01:13:00.880
<v Speaker 2>nesting bird habitat around here, so that all try and

1265
01:13:00.920 --> 01:13:03.880
<v Speaker 2>go there, and then every fox from miles around will

1266
01:13:03.920 --> 01:13:06.000
<v Speaker 2>be choosing to snack on things there.

1267
01:13:06.319 --> 01:13:09.920
<v Speaker 3>Yeah, the apex predator, then you have then that's where

1268
01:13:09.920 --> 01:13:11.760
<v Speaker 3>the real wildest thing come and say, okay, yes we

1269
01:13:11.800 --> 01:13:14.319
<v Speaker 3>have got a problem with predators, and we have the

1270
01:13:15.039 --> 01:13:16.279
<v Speaker 3>apex predators anymore.

1271
01:13:16.399 --> 01:13:19.840
<v Speaker 1>So then you have this thorny issue of people trying

1272
01:13:19.840 --> 01:13:21.520
<v Speaker 1>to sort of say, well, we're going to put links

1273
01:13:21.560 --> 01:13:23.880
<v Speaker 1>there and we're going to put wolves over here, and

1274
01:13:23.920 --> 01:13:28.079
<v Speaker 1>they will do this. I mean, that's why, really it

1275
01:13:28.119 --> 01:13:34.199
<v Speaker 1>doesn't work, because putting apex predators in is obviously a

1276
01:13:34.359 --> 01:13:38.239
<v Speaker 1>bonker's idea. There's no two ways about it. If we

1277
01:13:38.359 --> 01:13:42.399
<v Speaker 1>decided in fourteen hundred and sixty five whatever it was

1278
01:13:42.439 --> 01:13:46.720
<v Speaker 1>that in England that wolves were incompatible with us when

1279
01:13:46.720 --> 01:13:50.920
<v Speaker 1>we had a population in the whole country about the

1280
01:13:50.960 --> 01:13:55.319
<v Speaker 1>size of London now, then it probably means that now

1281
01:13:55.359 --> 01:13:57.800
<v Speaker 1>we've got seventy three million to have all we're going

1282
01:13:57.840 --> 01:13:59.760
<v Speaker 1>to they ain't going to be very compatible now. And

1283
01:13:59.800 --> 01:14:02.159
<v Speaker 1>the old things have gone all the way down to Cornwall,

1284
01:14:02.319 --> 01:14:03.960
<v Speaker 1>and they were saying this is about the only place

1285
01:14:04.000 --> 01:14:06.479
<v Speaker 1>we've found in England where there's any space left. And

1286
01:14:06.520 --> 01:14:08.920
<v Speaker 1>we still killed them anyway because we thought they don't

1287
01:14:08.920 --> 01:14:11.239
<v Speaker 1>work because you stop eating our sheep. You know, they

1288
01:14:11.279 --> 01:14:14.279
<v Speaker 1>weren't just going, oh, we're wolves, we'll only eat roe deer.

1289
01:14:14.680 --> 01:14:17.000
<v Speaker 1>It just doesn't work like that because nature isn't like that.

1290
01:14:17.079 --> 01:14:19.600
<v Speaker 1>You go for the easiest option, and an easier option

1291
01:14:19.720 --> 01:14:21.359
<v Speaker 1>is to go and kill a sheep than it is

1292
01:14:21.399 --> 01:14:24.199
<v Speaker 1>to go and kill a road deer. But anyway, or

1293
01:14:24.239 --> 01:14:28.039
<v Speaker 1>a German chancellor's pony, yes, or a German chancellor's pony.

1294
01:14:28.479 --> 01:14:31.319
<v Speaker 1>But I think, you know, if we get back to

1295
01:14:31.359 --> 01:14:35.680
<v Speaker 1>the whole point, is that, yes, we've industrialized. Yes we

1296
01:14:36.199 --> 01:14:39.960
<v Speaker 1>nature is in a parlor state compared with what it was,

1297
01:14:40.159 --> 01:14:43.399
<v Speaker 1>and I'd say it's in a parlor state probably compared

1298
01:14:43.399 --> 01:14:46.520
<v Speaker 1>with what it was towards the end of the Second

1299
01:14:46.560 --> 01:14:49.439
<v Speaker 1>World War that was where the tipping point started. And

1300
01:14:49.479 --> 01:14:54.039
<v Speaker 1>then probably by about nineteen seventy ish when we joined

1301
01:14:54.239 --> 01:14:57.479
<v Speaker 1>the European Union what it was called back then, it

1302
01:14:57.640 --> 01:15:00.439
<v Speaker 1>really ramped it up. And then we got to a

1303
01:15:00.520 --> 01:15:06.600
<v Speaker 1>point where in about the late eighties early nineties a

1304
01:15:06.680 --> 01:15:10.720
<v Speaker 1>lot of species had actually become more or less unsustainable.

1305
01:15:11.119 --> 01:15:14.640
<v Speaker 1>And so therefore you can't rely upon mother Nature to

1306
01:15:14.720 --> 01:15:18.760
<v Speaker 1>do because human beings created the mess. So it's up

1307
01:15:18.800 --> 01:15:20.800
<v Speaker 1>to us to get us out of it. It is.

1308
01:15:20.800 --> 01:15:22.159
<v Speaker 2>I mean, I think we're not going to resolve this

1309
01:15:22.239 --> 01:15:26.079
<v Speaker 2>now in this evening's episode. So I think Callum's got

1310
01:15:26.079 --> 01:15:30.079
<v Speaker 2>a thing to finish us up with. Just as were.

1311
01:15:33.439 --> 01:15:37.920
<v Speaker 4>Your gloss off the top of you. He's wearing a

1312
01:15:37.920 --> 01:15:38.760
<v Speaker 4>little beanie hat.

1313
01:15:38.800 --> 01:15:41.079
<v Speaker 3>Now he looks like a he's like a ship Craig

1314
01:15:41.199 --> 01:15:42.159
<v Speaker 3>Davey and sit there.

1315
01:15:45.239 --> 01:15:50.920
<v Speaker 1>He needs a kestrel on his arm.

1316
01:15:52.560 --> 01:16:04.640
<v Speaker 3>Craig anyway, just how nature has changed so completely outside

1317
01:16:04.680 --> 01:16:11.520
<v Speaker 3>of farmland. My area has changed quite significantly in the

1318
01:16:11.560 --> 01:16:13.239
<v Speaker 3>past sort of well, even in.

1319
01:16:13.199 --> 01:16:14.199
<v Speaker 4>The last few years.

1320
01:16:14.239 --> 01:16:17.840
<v Speaker 3>Today, there used to be a heron on the pond

1321
01:16:18.000 --> 01:16:21.600
<v Speaker 3>every single day. That seems to have gone, but it's

1322
01:16:21.640 --> 01:16:27.239
<v Speaker 3>been replaced by kingfishers. So I see kingfishers around all

1323
01:16:27.279 --> 01:16:31.920
<v Speaker 3>the time now and up until a couple of years ago.

1324
01:16:32.279 --> 01:16:36.119
<v Speaker 3>In twenty years agoing around that pond never saw a kingfisher.

1325
01:16:36.640 --> 01:16:40.119
<v Speaker 3>There's kingfishers around there. All the frogs seem to have

1326
01:16:40.199 --> 01:16:44.239
<v Speaker 3>died off. They didn't come back. The last two springs

1327
01:16:44.479 --> 01:16:47.359
<v Speaker 3>no frogs had come back. But when my son was

1328
01:16:47.399 --> 01:16:49.840
<v Speaker 3>a boy one two years old, we used to go

1329
01:16:49.880 --> 01:16:54.720
<v Speaker 3>and see the frogs around there. They've all gone. We

1330
01:16:54.840 --> 01:16:58.000
<v Speaker 3>now get woodcock in the woods where we never ever

1331
01:16:58.119 --> 01:17:04.399
<v Speaker 3>had those before. More head sparrows than ever before. Sparrow

1332
01:17:04.399 --> 01:17:08.000
<v Speaker 3>hawks are also plentiful as well, due to a lot

1333
01:17:08.079 --> 01:17:11.079
<v Speaker 3>more people. I think lockdown was really good for a

1334
01:17:11.079 --> 01:17:15.279
<v Speaker 3>lot of people that were doing supplementary bird feeding. They

1335
01:17:15.279 --> 01:17:17.000
<v Speaker 3>were enjoying the gardens.

1336
01:17:16.520 --> 01:17:20.920
<v Speaker 2>More buffet for sparrow hawks.

1337
01:17:21.880 --> 01:17:25.079
<v Speaker 3>But that also meant that the sparrowhawks absolutely loved it.

1338
01:17:25.119 --> 01:17:28.880
<v Speaker 3>And I often see them because they know where there's

1339
01:17:28.960 --> 01:17:32.960
<v Speaker 3>a larger concentration of birds in the urban garden. They

1340
01:17:33.479 --> 01:17:35.520
<v Speaker 3>I was on the phone to you once, Richard, actually

1341
01:17:35.680 --> 01:17:43.079
<v Speaker 3>and sparrow hawk absolutely destroyed a sparrow in front of me. Yeah,

1342
01:17:43.239 --> 01:17:48.520
<v Speaker 3>And we've got red kites that have now been replaced

1343
01:17:48.600 --> 01:17:52.600
<v Speaker 3>largely with buzzards. We never had red kites before. Now

1344
01:17:52.640 --> 01:17:57.399
<v Speaker 3>they've been largely replaced by buzzards. And I saw one

1345
01:17:57.560 --> 01:18:02.279
<v Speaker 3>hedgehog in the past five years and it was like

1346
01:18:02.399 --> 01:18:04.760
<v Speaker 3>the size of a football. For some reason, it was

1347
01:18:04.760 --> 01:18:07.760
<v Speaker 3>the biggest hedgehog I've ever seen the headhog life.

1348
01:18:08.640 --> 01:18:10.760
<v Speaker 2>And it was the last last hedgehog.

1349
01:18:11.359 --> 01:18:15.319
<v Speaker 3>Probably you joke, but I think that might have been

1350
01:18:15.359 --> 01:18:18.720
<v Speaker 3>the last hedgehog. He was having an absolute word of

1351
01:18:18.720 --> 01:18:20.880
<v Speaker 3>a time. I haven't seen a hedgehog in five cases,

1352
01:18:20.920 --> 01:18:23.239
<v Speaker 3>and I used to see him. I used to see

1353
01:18:23.279 --> 01:18:24.560
<v Speaker 3>him regularly as a kid.

1354
01:18:25.000 --> 01:18:27.279
<v Speaker 1>It's an interesting point. So therefore, there is a lot

1355
01:18:27.279 --> 01:18:31.439
<v Speaker 1>of wildlife. You live on the urban net fringe, the

1356
01:18:31.560 --> 01:18:34.479
<v Speaker 1>urban edge, and I think it's one of those things

1357
01:18:34.520 --> 01:18:39.159
<v Speaker 1>that that's probably a place where you know more wildlife

1358
01:18:39.159 --> 01:18:42.359
<v Speaker 1>is almost observed. The wildlife where I live isn't observed

1359
01:18:42.359 --> 01:18:45.479
<v Speaker 1>because most of the time people don't have access to it,

1360
01:18:45.520 --> 01:18:48.079
<v Speaker 1>thank God, so they don't see it. You know, I

1361
01:18:48.199 --> 01:18:50.319
<v Speaker 1>know what it's there. I was watching the other day

1362
01:18:50.479 --> 01:18:55.119
<v Speaker 1>planting a hedge and I discovered something quite fascinating because

1363
01:18:55.159 --> 01:18:59.359
<v Speaker 1>I'm now old, and you know, I try and plant

1364
01:18:59.359 --> 01:19:03.960
<v Speaker 1>five hundred hedge whips a day, right, and so about

1365
01:19:04.039 --> 01:19:07.319
<v Speaker 1>every fifty or so, I stand up straight my back

1366
01:19:07.359 --> 01:19:10.960
<v Speaker 1>and go oo, and I stop for five minutes. I

1367
01:19:10.960 --> 01:19:13.319
<v Speaker 1>have a quick suck on my old vape thing. And

1368
01:19:13.399 --> 01:19:17.640
<v Speaker 1>I watched the skylarks out on some stubble that was

1369
01:19:17.640 --> 01:19:20.920
<v Speaker 1>to my left hand side, and I saw there was

1370
01:19:20.960 --> 01:19:23.520
<v Speaker 1>a pair fighting up in the sky, and then I

1371
01:19:23.560 --> 01:19:26.520
<v Speaker 1>realized there was another pet and there are about five

1372
01:19:27.479 --> 01:19:31.279
<v Speaker 1>skylarks fighting. They do not fight on the ground. They

1373
01:19:31.319 --> 01:19:33.560
<v Speaker 1>go up, not as high as they do when they've

1374
01:19:33.560 --> 01:19:36.359
<v Speaker 1>actually got their territory. But when they're sorting a territory,

1375
01:19:36.840 --> 01:19:39.479
<v Speaker 1>the place that they seem to want to the bit

1376
01:19:39.520 --> 01:19:43.199
<v Speaker 1>of territory they want to take ownership of is the sky,

1377
01:19:43.760 --> 01:19:46.000
<v Speaker 1>so they're not battering hell out one another down on

1378
01:19:46.039 --> 01:19:48.880
<v Speaker 1>the ground where they will actually nest. They want to

1379
01:19:48.880 --> 01:19:51.359
<v Speaker 1>try and get this is my air space. So they

1380
01:19:51.359 --> 01:19:55.000
<v Speaker 1>have this little dog fight. And I realized that the

1381
01:19:55.039 --> 01:19:57.119
<v Speaker 1>reason why I've only just noticed it because I'm getting

1382
01:19:57.119 --> 01:19:59.880
<v Speaker 1>older and stiffer. And I stopped more and think that

1383
01:20:00.159 --> 01:20:03.039
<v Speaker 1>a five minute break. I actually stopped and watched, and

1384
01:20:03.079 --> 01:20:06.000
<v Speaker 1>I think that's what we should do more of. Is

1385
01:20:06.000 --> 01:20:08.560
<v Speaker 1>the big farmland bird counter at the moment is go

1386
01:20:08.680 --> 01:20:13.039
<v Speaker 1>out there and watch. Shut up, look around you and observe.

1387
01:20:13.840 --> 01:20:16.720
<v Speaker 1>And if you can record in some way for the

1388
01:20:16.720 --> 01:20:19.239
<v Speaker 1>big farm bird count is a great thing. But just

1389
01:20:19.319 --> 01:20:21.800
<v Speaker 1>in your own data bank and say, well, I never

1390
01:20:22.000 --> 01:20:24.239
<v Speaker 1>and so that little observation you've had is great. My

1391
01:20:24.319 --> 01:20:26.000
<v Speaker 1>observation fascinating, I think.

1392
01:20:26.039 --> 01:20:28.880
<v Speaker 2>And if you haven't come across it before, already, go

1393
01:20:28.960 --> 01:20:32.800
<v Speaker 2>and download the Merlin bird app. Oh yeah, it's like

1394
01:20:32.920 --> 01:20:37.319
<v Speaker 2>Shazam for birds. So you download it onto your onto

1395
01:20:37.359 --> 01:20:40.199
<v Speaker 2>your phone and you have to download the pack that's

1396
01:20:40.239 --> 01:20:42.840
<v Speaker 2>all the sound files for West I think it's like

1397
01:20:42.880 --> 01:20:46.359
<v Speaker 2>Western Europe or something, but that's got our birds on it.

1398
01:20:46.680 --> 01:20:49.760
<v Speaker 2>And then you just leave your phone somewhere in a

1399
01:20:50.159 --> 01:20:52.920
<v Speaker 2>meadow or on the edge of the garden or the

1400
01:20:53.000 --> 01:20:55.640
<v Speaker 2>edge of the truck and it will tell you at

1401
01:20:55.680 --> 01:20:58.840
<v Speaker 2>its best gets what species it's hearing, and then you

1402
01:20:58.840 --> 01:21:00.720
<v Speaker 2>can screenshot that and you can you can add it

1403
01:21:00.760 --> 01:21:03.119
<v Speaker 2>and add it to your list of things that you've seen.

1404
01:21:03.119 --> 01:21:05.880
<v Speaker 2>But it's a really good way of almost like passively

1405
01:21:05.920 --> 01:21:08.159
<v Speaker 2>recording it because it will pick out all the differences

1406
01:21:08.159 --> 01:21:10.800
<v Speaker 2>in the song. But the other thing as well, with

1407
01:21:11.760 --> 01:21:15.399
<v Speaker 2>waiting to see birds. If you're out doing some work

1408
01:21:15.399 --> 01:21:17.520
<v Speaker 2>in the countryside, does a lot of our listeners are,

1409
01:21:18.319 --> 01:21:22.159
<v Speaker 2>or you're visiting it, don't just stop and then immediately

1410
01:21:22.199 --> 01:21:25.319
<v Speaker 2>scan and go, well, there's nothing here. There's the amount

1411
01:21:25.319 --> 01:21:27.520
<v Speaker 2>of stuff that you'll see if you sit quietly for

1412
01:21:27.560 --> 01:21:31.159
<v Speaker 2>ten minutes. It's them being noisy and buggering around that

1413
01:21:31.199 --> 01:21:33.640
<v Speaker 2>scares them off. If you can sit quietly and stop

1414
01:21:33.680 --> 01:21:37.439
<v Speaker 2>jigging about, they will start to become more active again.

1415
01:21:37.880 --> 01:21:40.439
<v Speaker 2>The other one is standing in the field in the

1416
01:21:40.439 --> 01:21:43.119
<v Speaker 2>middle of the night with a thermal imager, possibly a

1417
01:21:43.159 --> 01:21:45.399
<v Speaker 2>Hicck micro one who can sponsor us if they like.

1418
01:21:48.880 --> 01:21:52.319
<v Speaker 2>If you think the countryside is devoid of wildlife, go

1419
01:21:52.479 --> 01:21:55.119
<v Speaker 2>and stand in a field with a thermal imager at night.

1420
01:21:55.479 --> 01:22:00.239
<v Speaker 2>You'll be amaze what's honking around out there in the fields.

1421
01:22:00.279 --> 01:22:07.159
<v Speaker 2>Just when you're all abed more. We've had another review. Accidentally,

1422
01:22:07.199 --> 01:22:11.000
<v Speaker 2>Great stumbled upon this by chance. I was looking for

1423
01:22:11.159 --> 01:22:15.239
<v Speaker 2>unvarnished but deeply knowledgeable rural dispatches without the overly tweet

1424
01:22:15.319 --> 01:22:19.000
<v Speaker 2>sentimentality or the dry academic spreadheaty common in other shows

1425
01:22:19.000 --> 01:22:23.000
<v Speaker 2>concerning the countryside and conservation, and found exactly that here.

1426
01:22:23.520 --> 01:22:26.840
<v Speaker 2>Love the rambling, unedited chat and the easy dynamic of

1427
01:22:26.840 --> 01:22:31.560
<v Speaker 2>the three hosts. More of this please, And that's from mess.

1428
01:22:32.079 --> 01:22:35.359
<v Speaker 3>My favorite bit is they think the ramblings unedited, it

1429
01:22:35.359 --> 01:22:36.760
<v Speaker 3>would be so much worse.

1430
01:22:38.960 --> 01:22:41.239
<v Speaker 2>Yeah, there's about two hours of editing per podcast that

1431
01:22:41.720 --> 01:22:45.800
<v Speaker 2>is just cutting out all the dross. Is amazingly these

1432
01:22:45.800 --> 01:22:49.720
<v Speaker 2>are the best bits.

1433
01:22:49.880 --> 01:22:51.880
<v Speaker 1>It's a weak thing, do you know. I think actually

1434
01:22:51.920 --> 01:22:55.039
<v Speaker 1>eventually people is going to think that Amy's name is

1435
01:22:55.079 --> 01:23:00.640
<v Speaker 1>actually that she's called poor Amy.

1436
01:23:02.079 --> 01:23:04.199
<v Speaker 2>Well, we I think we've picked up some new listeners

1437
01:23:04.199 --> 01:23:06.039
<v Speaker 2>as well over the last couple of weeks, so welcome

1438
01:23:06.079 --> 01:23:08.560
<v Speaker 2>to all the new listeners. And we know that some

1439
01:23:08.600 --> 01:23:10.600
<v Speaker 2>people are sort of listening and then going back through

1440
01:23:10.600 --> 01:23:13.159
<v Speaker 2>the back catalog because you can see how the numbers change.

1441
01:23:13.960 --> 01:23:16.399
<v Speaker 2>So I think, you know, people seem to be happy

1442
01:23:16.439 --> 01:23:19.560
<v Speaker 2>with that, So thank you, and if you do. If

1443
01:23:19.600 --> 01:23:21.479
<v Speaker 2>you do like this and you haven't shared it with

1444
01:23:21.520 --> 01:23:25.279
<v Speaker 2>your friends already, then please do because that helps us

1445
01:23:25.319 --> 01:23:28.760
<v Speaker 2>reach new audiences. It doesn't sort of automatically get shown

1446
01:23:28.800 --> 01:23:30.920
<v Speaker 2>to people you Sometimes you have to share it manually.

1447
01:23:31.520 --> 01:23:32.960
<v Speaker 2>And if you want to leave us a review then

1448
01:23:33.000 --> 01:23:35.359
<v Speaker 2>that would be really useful too, because that tells other

1449
01:23:35.399 --> 01:23:38.079
<v Speaker 2>people that this is this is worth their time, because

1450
01:23:38.119 --> 01:23:39.760
<v Speaker 2>I think that's the thing with podcasts. You look at

1451
01:23:39.800 --> 01:23:42.279
<v Speaker 2>it and go that's an hour and a half? Can

1452
01:23:42.319 --> 01:23:43.880
<v Speaker 2>I be asked with an hour and a half? So

1453
01:23:43.920 --> 01:23:45.760
<v Speaker 2>if this, if they read some good reviews, they know

1454
01:23:45.800 --> 01:23:49.680
<v Speaker 2>it's worth clicking download. So thank you for that. Just

1455
01:23:49.720 --> 01:23:53.199
<v Speaker 2>a reminder that Callum and I and with Amy and

1456
01:23:53.279 --> 01:23:56.600
<v Speaker 2>toe poor Amy will be attending the British Shooting Show

1457
01:23:56.720 --> 01:23:59.520
<v Speaker 2>on the Friday in a couple of weeks time, which

1458
01:23:59.520 --> 01:24:02.399
<v Speaker 2>I think is that's thirteenth, fourteenth something like that, on

1459
01:24:02.439 --> 01:24:04.239
<v Speaker 2>the whatever the Friday is, and we're going to be

1460
01:24:04.239 --> 01:24:04.960
<v Speaker 2>going around there with.

1461
01:24:04.960 --> 01:24:10.720
<v Speaker 3>My fourteenth Valentine's Day val pictures of Richard Nigus which

1462
01:24:10.760 --> 01:24:15.600
<v Speaker 3>he signed and he's kissed every one of them.

1463
01:24:16.600 --> 01:24:18.760
<v Speaker 2>On Valentine's Day, You're going all the way over to

1464
01:24:18.800 --> 01:24:20.119
<v Speaker 2>the neec on your own then.

1465
01:24:20.039 --> 01:24:22.359
<v Speaker 1>Calm, you're not taking your missus with you.

1466
01:24:23.560 --> 01:24:26.800
<v Speaker 3>I'm taking nine. I don't think she's going to want to.

1467
01:24:28.000 --> 01:24:31.720
<v Speaker 3>Some people do actually have to. They've got surprisingly, people

1468
01:24:31.760 --> 01:24:33.720
<v Speaker 3>have got real jobs where they have to turn up

1469
01:24:33.760 --> 01:24:36.840
<v Speaker 3>to places, so they can't just stick around and go

1470
01:24:36.880 --> 01:24:39.680
<v Speaker 3>to like Birmingham or wherever.

1471
01:24:39.840 --> 01:24:44.199
<v Speaker 2>Yeah, you said with such which hate Birmingham. It's the

1472
01:24:44.279 --> 01:24:45.279
<v Speaker 2>nec It's not that bad.

1473
01:24:45.960 --> 01:24:49.520
<v Speaker 3>I once stayed in a hotel that was about half

1474
01:24:49.520 --> 01:24:51.920
<v Speaker 3>a mile from Birmingham. But what they didn't tell you

1475
01:24:52.279 --> 01:24:54.760
<v Speaker 3>is called the Arden Hotel, where they didn't tell you

1476
01:24:54.800 --> 01:24:56.560
<v Speaker 3>it was half a mile but the wrong side of

1477
01:24:56.560 --> 01:24:59.359
<v Speaker 3>whatever that motorway was, and it was seventeen pounds in

1478
01:24:59.399 --> 01:25:01.800
<v Speaker 3>a cab to get across the road, and it has

1479
01:25:02.399 --> 01:25:06.760
<v Speaker 3>the worst burger that's ever existed. And my friend accounted

1480
01:25:06.760 --> 01:25:10.560
<v Speaker 3>the same story, which I feel was like, did I

1481
01:25:10.600 --> 01:25:12.880
<v Speaker 3>tell you this story? And it just so happened that

1482
01:25:12.920 --> 01:25:16.119
<v Speaker 3>we've been to the same hotel and had the same experience.

1483
01:25:16.640 --> 01:25:21.479
<v Speaker 3>Imagine a hockey puck in a limp bun and that

1484
01:25:21.640 --> 01:25:24.039
<v Speaker 3>was what we were served for about seventeen.

1485
01:25:23.600 --> 01:25:26.600
<v Speaker 2>Pounds, hockey puck and the limp burn. I think that's

1486
01:25:27.159 --> 01:25:29.079
<v Speaker 2>the correct way to end this podcast, so thank you

1487
01:25:29.119 --> 01:25:33.960
<v Speaker 2>to everyone. Thank you for listening. Please like and subscribe

1488
01:25:34.079 --> 01:25:36.640
<v Speaker 2>No that's YouTube, No just you.

1489
01:25:37.039 --> 01:25:37.239
<v Speaker 3>Yeah.

1490
01:25:38.000 --> 01:25:41.600
<v Speaker 2>Also send us money as we have several people who've

1491
01:25:41.600 --> 01:25:44.159
<v Speaker 2>been sending us lots of nice things, including Louise again,

1492
01:25:44.279 --> 01:25:47.800
<v Speaker 2>so thank you very much Louise. Yes, we will spend

1493
01:25:47.880 --> 01:25:50.199
<v Speaker 2>it on some sort of gin or maybe just the

1494
01:25:50.199 --> 01:25:53.720
<v Speaker 2>hosting costs for the podcast. So thank you very much everyone,

1495
01:25:54.119 --> 01:25:56.119
<v Speaker 2>Bye bye, thy thanks.

1496
01:26:03.720 --> 01:26:06.640
<v Speaker 7>Hello as Angus Blair brave Heart McNeil.

1497
01:26:06.720 --> 01:26:06.920
<v Speaker 1>Here.

1498
01:26:07.920 --> 01:26:11.920
<v Speaker 7>As you know, cats in Scotland are history. If you

1499
01:26:12.000 --> 01:26:14.680
<v Speaker 7>want to make sure it's steeds that way, called today

1500
01:26:14.720 --> 01:26:18.920
<v Speaker 7>for a free quotation. We've got fen traps, gen traps,

1501
01:26:19.199 --> 01:26:23.920
<v Speaker 7>pole traps, cage traps, even they ones for bears. They'll

1502
01:26:24.000 --> 01:26:28.800
<v Speaker 7>catch a cat, dinny you worry, So let's make cat's history.

1503
01:26:29.479 --> 01:26:31.600
<v Speaker 7>If you see one in the garden, call us today

1504
01:26:31.960 --> 01:26:35.000
<v Speaker 7>eight hundred two three four two three four. We'll go

1505
01:26:35.079 --> 01:26:39.520
<v Speaker 7>on our website for a quotation www dot scotch cats

1506
01:26:39.840 --> 01:26:42.720
<v Speaker 7>get it you will.

1507
01:26:47.560 --> 01:26:51.279
<v Speaker 5>Hello, Hello, Hello, this thing on this This is Jeremiah

1508
01:26:51.279 --> 01:26:56.520
<v Speaker 5>I run. Jeremiah's are sluicing with sluice arses mainly on

1509
01:26:56.560 --> 01:26:59.159
<v Speaker 5>the world, but we also we also go out as

1510
01:26:59.199 --> 01:27:02.000
<v Speaker 5>far as Wig. On the other side, we don't We

1511
01:27:02.359 --> 01:27:04.560
<v Speaker 5>don't go into into Liverpool though we know we don't

1512
01:27:04.560 --> 01:27:08.279
<v Speaker 5>go there, but we sluice ourses mainly human, but we've

1513
01:27:08.399 --> 01:27:11.760
<v Speaker 5>we've also been known to do goats, pigs and we

1514
01:27:11.880 --> 01:27:15.960
<v Speaker 5>once did a recalcitrant lama that refused to get bathed.

1515
01:27:16.000 --> 01:27:19.359
<v Speaker 5>But but mainly mainly it's human. So our sluicing is

1516
01:27:19.399 --> 01:27:22.520
<v Speaker 5>mainly what we do. We've got sort of three tiers

1517
01:27:22.560 --> 01:27:25.560
<v Speaker 5>of service. We've got a basic one which which is

1518
01:27:25.600 --> 01:27:29.640
<v Speaker 5>cold water, We've got a premium one which is warm water,

1519
01:27:30.199 --> 01:27:33.680
<v Speaker 5>and then we have a Premium Deluxe version which is

1520
01:27:33.680 --> 01:27:35.840
<v Speaker 5>where we use soup soap as well.

1521
01:27:35.680 --> 01:27:39.159
<v Speaker 2>We can use soap and we can use soup, but

1522
01:27:39.279 --> 01:27:42.880
<v Speaker 2>if you have soup then then really that's extra. That's

1523
01:27:42.880 --> 01:27:44.560
<v Speaker 2>a bespoke quote. So if you if you go to

1524
01:27:44.600 --> 01:27:47.960
<v Speaker 2>our sluicing dot org because we couldn't get dot co

1525
01:27:48.079 --> 01:27:51.359
<v Speaker 2>dot uk because that Git from Portsmouth has got that one,

1526
01:27:51.680 --> 01:27:54.359
<v Speaker 2>our sluicing dot org that's where you'll find us.

1527
01:27:58.439 --> 01:28:02.439
<v Speaker 8>You all know it's me Hubert's Washington Smyth bringing you

1528
01:28:02.520 --> 01:28:06.159
<v Speaker 8>a very unique experience for you and the lad It's

1529
01:28:06.199 --> 01:28:10.880
<v Speaker 8>simulated hunting of poor people will take you for the day.

1530
01:28:12.000 --> 01:28:16.800
<v Speaker 8>You will track along our shed and you'll see tenants

1531
01:28:16.840 --> 01:28:21.840
<v Speaker 8>super some you saying about bifters and other such things.

1532
01:28:22.079 --> 01:28:25.359
<v Speaker 8>And then you'll get to go into the simulated area

1533
01:28:25.880 --> 01:28:27.640
<v Speaker 8>and hunt poor people.

1534
01:28:28.239 --> 01:28:28.960
<v Speaker 4>You'll get to use.

1535
01:28:28.880 --> 01:28:32.039
<v Speaker 8>Different caliber of weapons, anything of your choice.

1536
01:28:32.640 --> 01:28:34.000
<v Speaker 4>It's a fantastic day.

1537
01:28:34.399 --> 01:28:37.359
<v Speaker 8>Monte, Johnte Bonte and Conti will be there.

1538
01:28:38.520 --> 01:28:39.560
<v Speaker 4>I hope you'll calm down.

1539
01:28:39.840 --> 01:28:44.199
<v Speaker 8>It's twenty pounds per person and you'll all get a

1540
01:28:44.199 --> 01:28:47.520
<v Speaker 8>glass of Bollinger on arrival. Thank you, brilliant
