WEBVTT 1 00:00:00.080 --> 00:00:03.759 People really misunderstand crypto because it's treated like a vertical 2 00:00:03.759 --> 00:00:06.080 category when it's really a horizontal category. And what I 3 00:00:06.120 --> 00:00:08.359 mean by that is going back to my time in media, 4 00:00:08.599 --> 00:00:13.279 TV or broadcast or radio. Those are vertical categories. You're 5 00:00:13.320 --> 00:00:16.719 either linear television or terrestrial radio or you're not. 6 00:00:16.920 --> 00:00:18.640 When you get to digital, digital. 7 00:00:18.399 --> 00:00:22.320 Is a horizontal platform. Anything that can be digitized ultimately 8 00:00:22.359 --> 00:00:24.640 will be digitized. So now take that step one step 9 00:00:24.679 --> 00:00:27.399 further into the crypto space. What is crypto really right? 10 00:00:27.559 --> 00:00:31.920 Crypto is tokenization, right, so if it can be digitized, 11 00:00:32.640 --> 00:00:35.039 once it's digitized, it could be tokenized. So what does 12 00:00:35.039 --> 00:00:38.679 that make crypto. It makes crypto a horizontal platform as well, 13 00:00:38.759 --> 00:00:42.240 not a vertical category. 14 00:00:45.000 --> 00:00:47.439 This episode is brought to you by Treasure. Treasure makes 15 00:00:47.479 --> 00:00:51.079 beautifully crafted hardware wallets that'll allow you to easily and 16 00:00:51.159 --> 00:00:54.200 safely store your crypto assets. Treasure has been in the 17 00:00:54.240 --> 00:00:57.159 game for a very long time, since twenty thirteen. They 18 00:00:57.159 --> 00:01:01.039 were the pioneers of hardware wallets in the seed phrase setup, 19 00:01:01.240 --> 00:01:04.120 and their hardware wallets are open source. In fact, my 20 00:01:04.239 --> 00:01:07.959 favorite is the Treasure Save five. It's a beautifully designed 21 00:01:08.200 --> 00:01:11.200 and easy to use hardware wallet. Guys, and it's my 22 00:01:11.319 --> 00:01:14.239 go to and they support a variety of coins, all 23 00:01:14.280 --> 00:01:17.799 your top crypto tokens, your big coins, your x rp Ethereum, 24 00:01:17.879 --> 00:01:21.680 Solana and much more and even new coins even black 25 00:01:21.760 --> 00:01:25.359 Rocks Biddle token. So they support coins on the institutional 26 00:01:25.439 --> 00:01:29.359 side where you have tokenization of different assets and much more. 27 00:01:29.560 --> 00:01:32.200 And they even offer a great service that helps you 28 00:01:32.239 --> 00:01:34.599 to get your treasure device set up. You get one 29 00:01:34.599 --> 00:01:37.400 on one customer support from their team, so you can 30 00:01:37.480 --> 00:01:39.680 check that out as well. So once again, I'm a 31 00:01:39.680 --> 00:01:42.000 big fan of this hardware wallet. So if you'd like 32 00:01:42.040 --> 00:01:45.719 to learn more, visit the link in the description. Hey, folks, 33 00:01:45.799 --> 00:01:49.040 welcome into the Thinking Crypto podcast. I'm your host Tony Edward, 34 00:01:49.159 --> 00:01:51.439 and today we're recording at Station three in New York's 35 00:01:51.480 --> 00:01:54.680 Financial District and my guest is Keith Grossman, who is 36 00:01:54.719 --> 00:01:56.079 the president at Moonpay. 37 00:01:56.519 --> 00:01:56.719 Keith. 38 00:01:56.760 --> 00:01:57.519 Great to have you. 39 00:01:57.560 --> 00:02:00.000 Thank you, Leally. This is Thinking Crypto. This is between 40 00:02:00.040 --> 00:02:01.879 two ferns. That's right. 41 00:02:01.920 --> 00:02:03.319 I'll be Zach Galafanakis. 42 00:02:03.359 --> 00:02:05.599 So sweet, Okay, thank you, Okay, like I was, I 43 00:02:05.680 --> 00:02:07.879 just didn't want to take that role on Okay, good, 44 00:02:08.000 --> 00:02:09.719 So Tony, thank you so much for having me. 45 00:02:09.960 --> 00:02:13.360 Yeah, I'm so excited to learn all the details around 46 00:02:13.360 --> 00:02:16.360 what Moonpay is doing. But also your background fascinates me 47 00:02:16.360 --> 00:02:18.080 and I have a lot of question with your time 48 00:02:18.120 --> 00:02:21.599 at a Time and even Wired and much more. But 49 00:02:21.639 --> 00:02:23.360 let's kick it off with your background. Tell us about 50 00:02:23.360 --> 00:02:26.319 where you're from and growing up in professional background. 51 00:02:27.400 --> 00:02:29.879 So I mean I'm boring Tony like I grew up 52 00:02:29.919 --> 00:02:32.479 in New York City on the Upper East Side. I 53 00:02:32.520 --> 00:02:34.000 now live on the Upper West Side. I grew up 54 00:02:34.000 --> 00:02:35.960 in an apartment nine F. I now live in apartment 55 00:02:36.039 --> 00:02:40.000 nine F. I went to school upstate, and outside of 56 00:02:40.039 --> 00:02:44.199 Moonpay being downtown, my entire career has been midtown New York. Right, 57 00:02:44.240 --> 00:02:46.360 So I'm like, as as mentioning to you like a 58 00:02:46.400 --> 00:02:50.759 two mile bubble boy, right. And I started my career 59 00:02:50.840 --> 00:02:55.000 out of college. I was a government major in you know, 60 00:02:55.039 --> 00:02:59.639 at Cornell. And I started my career at Wired as 61 00:02:59.639 --> 00:03:01.639 an allociate on the business side. And I rose up 62 00:03:01.680 --> 00:03:05.039 at Conde Nasts from intern up to associate publisher and 63 00:03:05.080 --> 00:03:09.639 then went over to Bloomberg and I rose to become 64 00:03:09.759 --> 00:03:14.439 global chief revenue Officer and then from their time where 65 00:03:14.479 --> 00:03:17.360 I was president for four years, and then came over 66 00:03:17.439 --> 00:03:19.599 to Moonpey, and I've been at Moonpey for the past 67 00:03:19.599 --> 00:03:19.960 three years. 68 00:03:20.000 --> 00:03:20.719 It's been a lot of fun. 69 00:03:21.080 --> 00:03:24.159 So what a transition? How did you discover blockchain and krypton? 70 00:03:24.159 --> 00:03:25.800 What made you want to come work in the industry? 71 00:03:25.960 --> 00:03:29.560 Well, well, so I was never a journalist, right, so 72 00:03:29.680 --> 00:03:33.000 I was always on the business technology innovation side, right, 73 00:03:33.039 --> 00:03:35.439 so I get Wired. If you saw, like in twenty 74 00:03:35.560 --> 00:03:38.479 ten the tablet edition, like when the iPad came out 75 00:03:38.520 --> 00:03:40.039 that Steve Jobs held up, I was part of the 76 00:03:40.039 --> 00:03:42.400 team that did that with Scott Dadag and Maya Dresen 77 00:03:42.479 --> 00:03:46.439 and Harardmittman. And when we took over Ours Technica, we 78 00:03:46.800 --> 00:03:49.680 launched a predictive algorithm called the rs Accelerator that won 79 00:03:49.680 --> 00:03:53.919 a Project ISAAC Award for Best Digital Invention. And at Boomberg, 80 00:03:53.960 --> 00:03:57.759 it was really about bringing all these disparate pieces together 81 00:03:58.800 --> 00:04:01.599 to launch Boomberg Media. And then ultimately, like we launched 82 00:04:01.599 --> 00:04:03.960 the events, we launched Boomberg Quick Take, which was social 83 00:04:04.000 --> 00:04:06.919 mobile video and time was about modernizing this brand, right, 84 00:04:06.960 --> 00:04:08.439 which explains like why we took. 85 00:04:08.280 --> 00:04:09.159 It into web three. 86 00:04:09.759 --> 00:04:13.120 But for me, like I fell in love with crypto 87 00:04:14.000 --> 00:04:19.360 back in twenty ten, and the editors of Wired came 88 00:04:19.439 --> 00:04:22.360 to me. I was the associate publisher at the time, 89 00:04:22.399 --> 00:04:25.519 and they said, will you write a check for us 90 00:04:25.600 --> 00:04:28.879 to mind bitcoin in our offices? And I said, what's that? 91 00:04:29.639 --> 00:04:34.279 And they explained it to me and I was like whatever, okay, 92 00:04:34.439 --> 00:04:36.680 And like the check was I think it was like 93 00:04:36.720 --> 00:04:39.279 sixty eight hundred dollars and it was when you could 94 00:04:39.279 --> 00:04:41.600 mine bitcoin with the CPU, like you can't do that. 95 00:04:41.600 --> 00:04:42.160 Today, right. 96 00:04:42.240 --> 00:04:44.639 Maya Dresen was actually in the office when this happened, 97 00:04:44.639 --> 00:04:46.480 which I love because like I have like a like 98 00:04:46.519 --> 00:04:48.560 I have a validator for this story, like this moment, 99 00:04:48.600 --> 00:04:53.800 and and like from there they wrote the article and 100 00:04:53.839 --> 00:04:56.680 like I kind of was fascinated with the space. If 101 00:04:56.720 --> 00:05:00.720 you ever curious, like why Bloomberg has at crypto as 102 00:05:00.759 --> 00:05:02.759 a handle, right, Like, like I was part of the 103 00:05:02.759 --> 00:05:06.279 team that secured that and then ultimately we launched the 104 00:05:06.279 --> 00:05:09.720 Crypto vertical within Bloomberg, right, you know. But it's always 105 00:05:09.759 --> 00:05:13.279 been a topic that I loved. It wasn't It was 106 00:05:13.360 --> 00:05:18.040 really COVID that made me realize and understand what the 107 00:05:18.040 --> 00:05:21.639 technology could do in terms of connecting people, communities, what 108 00:05:21.680 --> 00:05:27.079 digital ownership really meant, what the what was actually happening, 109 00:05:27.279 --> 00:05:29.600 you know, and I think the big epiphany for me 110 00:05:30.240 --> 00:05:35.079 over that time was that the Internet was absorbing value 111 00:05:35.199 --> 00:05:40.040 and the movement of value, similar to like back in 112 00:05:40.079 --> 00:05:43.560 the day when the Internet absorbed telephany, right, like very 113 00:05:43.560 --> 00:05:46.199 few people remember, there used to be these ads on 114 00:05:46.319 --> 00:05:50.600 AT and T that were like call call Paris for 115 00:05:50.800 --> 00:05:52.959 two dollars and fourteen cents a minute, called Japan, or 116 00:05:52.959 --> 00:05:54.759 for like two dollars and ninety nine cents a minute. 117 00:05:55.079 --> 00:05:57.759 Those ads don't exist anymore, and it's because the Internet 118 00:05:57.800 --> 00:06:01.480 absorbed telephany with voice over IP and like drove the 119 00:06:01.560 --> 00:06:05.519 price down to zero. The phone company still exists, but 120 00:06:05.560 --> 00:06:08.360 they had to find new ways of making money. I 121 00:06:08.360 --> 00:06:11.480 saw the same thing happening with blockchain technologies, like value 122 00:06:11.560 --> 00:06:14.480 was all of being absorbed, and like the movement and 123 00:06:14.519 --> 00:06:16.920 the distillation of value, all of a sudden was going 124 00:06:16.959 --> 00:06:19.040 to be democratized, and I thought that that was just 125 00:06:19.120 --> 00:06:22.079 one of the biggest evolutions you could possibly imagine. 126 00:06:22.160 --> 00:06:25.000 So, Keith, you are an og I mean twenty ten. 127 00:06:25.480 --> 00:06:27.720 Look like in media, I was the youngest person almost 128 00:06:27.759 --> 00:06:30.839 every job I ever took in crypto, I am a cryptogeriatric. 129 00:06:30.879 --> 00:06:32.959 I think I'm fifteen years older than the median age 130 00:06:32.959 --> 00:06:33.560 at Moonpay. 131 00:06:34.439 --> 00:06:37.279 So what's it like looking back now? You know, crypto 132 00:06:37.319 --> 00:06:41.399 has grown significantly, we got legislation, all of wall streets here, 133 00:06:41.399 --> 00:06:43.319 all the banks and so forth. What's it like looking 134 00:06:43.360 --> 00:06:44.439 back and seeing that growth? 135 00:06:46.199 --> 00:06:52.759 Look, it's fun, right, it's awesome with any technology, Like 136 00:06:53.319 --> 00:06:56.800 in the beginning, it's always it's always beautiful in the beginning, 137 00:06:56.800 --> 00:07:00.399 because in the beginning it's really pure, right, and it's 138 00:07:00.439 --> 00:07:06.959 always sort of set forth by technological purists, and like that, 139 00:07:06.959 --> 00:07:10.199 that purity is what sort of attracts, you know, a 140 00:07:10.240 --> 00:07:15.600 lot of the thinkers to come in and build within it. 141 00:07:15.639 --> 00:07:18.720 To me, like, I'm. 142 00:07:18.079 --> 00:07:22.399 Always intrigued by the purity of that moment, right like 143 00:07:22.439 --> 00:07:26.759 the Internet saw it like the cyber of punks. What 144 00:07:26.879 --> 00:07:30.480 I love, though, is the moment where it is in now, 145 00:07:30.600 --> 00:07:34.680 where it's like we're no longer these crazy people streaming 146 00:07:34.720 --> 00:07:36.920 from the hill top, but like the wind is in 147 00:07:36.959 --> 00:07:38.759 the sails of the of the ecosystem. 148 00:07:38.759 --> 00:07:40.040 And I definitely think that. 149 00:07:40.560 --> 00:07:46.800 And you mentioned this between legislative clarity, regulatory clarity, banking clarity, 150 00:07:47.319 --> 00:07:52.160 accounting clarity, the industries seeing sort of like this Golden 151 00:07:52.199 --> 00:07:55.240 age emerge, whereas for the past fifteen years, it's had 152 00:07:55.240 --> 00:07:57.399 to sort of build and sort of like the fog 153 00:07:57.519 --> 00:07:58.519 of grayness. 154 00:07:59.319 --> 00:08:02.040 If we were to make the analogy comparing the Internet, 155 00:08:02.120 --> 00:08:06.160 are we at the broadband phase or the mobile phone phase? 156 00:08:06.360 --> 00:08:11.199 Okay, so the analogy I would actually give is, do 157 00:08:11.199 --> 00:08:15.120 you remember, like back in like the early nineties, like 158 00:08:15.319 --> 00:08:18.079 there were three eighty six chips for eighty six chips, 159 00:08:18.519 --> 00:08:22.120 pentium chips. People would talk about their modems they had 160 00:08:22.160 --> 00:08:25.519 fourteen point four bps motives, you remember, Okay, Like, do 161 00:08:25.519 --> 00:08:28.120 you remember what was the number one ad campaign at 162 00:08:28.120 --> 00:08:28.399 that time? 163 00:08:28.439 --> 00:08:28.959 Do you remember that? 164 00:08:30.759 --> 00:08:31.759 Was it around AOL? 165 00:08:31.920 --> 00:08:35.159 No? It was Intel inside right on tell in side. 166 00:08:35.240 --> 00:08:38.399 Yeah, was the biggest ad campaign you could imagine everyone 167 00:08:38.440 --> 00:08:40.480 would talk about when the pentium chip came out. It 168 00:08:40.559 --> 00:08:42.320 was the only thing people talk about. Then all of 169 00:08:42.360 --> 00:08:45.840 a sudden, Steve Jobs comes out with an iPod, right, 170 00:08:45.879 --> 00:08:48.080 and he says, thousand songs in your pocket. I realized, 171 00:08:48.120 --> 00:08:49.440 since we're going to be on YouTube, this is not 172 00:08:49.519 --> 00:08:51.799 an iPod, this is an iPhone. It was the closest 173 00:08:51.840 --> 00:08:54.000 thing I have to it, right, right, But he says 174 00:08:54.080 --> 00:08:56.080 thousand songs in your pocket, and all of a sudden, 175 00:08:56.159 --> 00:08:58.879 everyone says, I want that, right, it's they don't want 176 00:08:59.120 --> 00:09:00.639 they don't care about the upset anymore. 177 00:09:00.639 --> 00:09:02.440 They care about the experiences. Right. 178 00:09:03.519 --> 00:09:07.360 Where I genuinely think we're at right now is that 179 00:09:07.559 --> 00:09:13.039 moment where we are in between the chips and the experiences, right. 180 00:09:13.159 --> 00:09:15.600 And what I mean by that is is when people 181 00:09:15.600 --> 00:09:20.200 are talking about the blockchains that they're using or that 182 00:09:20.279 --> 00:09:23.200 things are built on, that's still a chip. That's still 183 00:09:23.200 --> 00:09:24.000 the technology. 184 00:09:24.159 --> 00:09:24.320 Right. 185 00:09:24.559 --> 00:09:27.639 And two years ago I wrote this up ed and 186 00:09:27.679 --> 00:09:28.399 it's on Nasdaq. 187 00:09:28.639 --> 00:09:31.799 It's funny. It's called nobody Cares how your toilet works? Right? 188 00:09:31.879 --> 00:09:33.720 And like what's funny is like, think about do you 189 00:09:33.799 --> 00:09:35.519 care how your toilet works? 190 00:09:35.120 --> 00:09:36.440 That just work? Right? 191 00:09:36.879 --> 00:09:39.639 If you go onto Wikipedia and you type in how 192 00:09:39.679 --> 00:09:41.600 does my toilet work? You get a ten thousand word 193 00:09:41.720 --> 00:09:45.960 article with eighty two reference points. Yeah, right, and like 194 00:09:46.440 --> 00:09:49.840 nobody cares, right. And so what we're going to start 195 00:09:49.879 --> 00:09:52.320 to see is these adoptions in the crypto space, with 196 00:09:52.360 --> 00:09:56.679 these technologies that are going to be more like the 197 00:09:57.519 --> 00:10:01.000 thousand songs in your pocket emerging. You are also the 198 00:10:01.039 --> 00:10:04.480 same way that like high definition emerged, right where you 199 00:10:04.600 --> 00:10:06.720 got a high definition TV and all of a sudden, 200 00:10:06.799 --> 00:10:08.960 you go, this is just a better experience, And like, 201 00:10:08.960 --> 00:10:11.559 what does a better experience look like? I mean, it 202 00:10:11.600 --> 00:10:15.519 looks like a cheaper money movement, It looks like twenty 203 00:10:15.559 --> 00:10:19.240 four to seven money movement. It looks like money movement 204 00:10:19.240 --> 00:10:20.919 to your phone as opposed to having to go to 205 00:10:20.960 --> 00:10:24.240 a physical location, right, right, And so I think that 206 00:10:24.360 --> 00:10:27.639 like a lot of this evolution that's going to occur 207 00:10:27.759 --> 00:10:32.360 with tokenization and cryptotechnologies is going to work against the 208 00:10:32.559 --> 00:10:35.799 bigger backdrop of what's happening, which is this trend line 209 00:10:35.799 --> 00:10:39.519 towards a world that's getting faster, more efficient, cheaper. 210 00:10:40.440 --> 00:10:43.159 Absolutely, And you know, with your background for example at 211 00:10:43.200 --> 00:10:45.639 Time and Wired and so forth, how do you feel 212 00:10:45.799 --> 00:10:49.879 in Bloomberg these companies will transition to web three? Is 213 00:10:49.919 --> 00:10:53.960 it using the blockchain for content verification, weeding out deep 214 00:10:53.960 --> 00:10:54.960 fakes and things like that? 215 00:10:55.320 --> 00:10:57.519 Yeah, So, like I think that there's gonna be a lot. 216 00:10:57.679 --> 00:10:59.879 I don't think any of them are going to consciously 217 00:11:00.360 --> 00:11:02.200 do it, right, Like, I think it's going to be 218 00:11:02.200 --> 00:11:05.039 an adoption based on how technology evolves. 219 00:11:05.120 --> 00:11:05.320 Right. 220 00:11:05.399 --> 00:11:08.360 So you bring up verification right. 221 00:11:10.080 --> 00:11:10.399 First? 222 00:11:10.399 --> 00:11:14.279 Like in information in the information age, I feel like 223 00:11:14.360 --> 00:11:15.559 I'd have to sort of ask you. 224 00:11:15.600 --> 00:11:16.600 It's like like. 225 00:11:18.039 --> 00:11:20.879 The problem that people are having with verification today is 226 00:11:22.000 --> 00:11:25.320 they're trying to verify truth. And I would argue we 227 00:11:25.360 --> 00:11:28.320 are in a and this is on content right, right, 228 00:11:28.519 --> 00:11:31.039 And I would argue, we're in a post truth era 229 00:11:31.720 --> 00:11:34.879 of content. And what I mean is is not that 230 00:11:34.960 --> 00:11:38.480 truth doesn't exist, but we're more in a trust era, right. 231 00:11:39.120 --> 00:11:44.240 And it's evolved because of the way in which information 232 00:11:44.480 --> 00:11:46.559 is now disseminated and accessed. 233 00:11:46.720 --> 00:11:46.879 Right. 234 00:11:46.879 --> 00:11:49.279 It used to be that there were three news sources 235 00:11:49.320 --> 00:11:52.240 in America. You could have a Walter Cronkite who was 236 00:11:52.279 --> 00:11:56.360 the most trusted person on the planet. And distribution, the 237 00:11:56.399 --> 00:12:00.759 means of distribution we're controlled right Today, you know, consumers 238 00:12:00.759 --> 00:12:04.080 have infinite choice to get any type of information, and 239 00:12:04.120 --> 00:12:07.360 then you weigher that on with paywalls, which gate information 240 00:12:09.000 --> 00:12:13.360 and access right to certain certain areas, and you start 241 00:12:13.360 --> 00:12:17.240 to realize, like people are getting their information in bubbles, right, 242 00:12:17.320 --> 00:12:21.240 And the infinite information is actually creating an opportunity for 243 00:12:21.320 --> 00:12:26.600 brands that are trusted by certain constituencies because the consumer 244 00:12:26.840 --> 00:12:30.480 would probably think, I want infinite, but infinite is paralyzing, right. 245 00:12:30.759 --> 00:12:33.039 You have a read Berry Schwartz's book The Paradox of 246 00:12:33.159 --> 00:12:36.039 Choice right, right, And so the consumer ultimately wants to 247 00:12:36.120 --> 00:12:40.919 go back to Time or to the Wall Street Journal, 248 00:12:41.159 --> 00:12:45.720 or to Fox News or to CNN. It doesn't matter, right, 249 00:12:46.080 --> 00:12:49.039 and to them what those really are. And I used 250 00:12:49.039 --> 00:12:50.360 to say this all the time of time. It's like 251 00:12:50.399 --> 00:12:53.480 that red border was a trusted filter, right, It's not 252 00:12:53.559 --> 00:12:56.960 necessarily truth, it's trust that the consumer is coming for. 253 00:12:57.320 --> 00:12:57.519 Right. 254 00:12:58.039 --> 00:13:00.879 So like where I think blockchain technology will come in 255 00:13:00.879 --> 00:13:08.559 in that space is by saying Time actually verified this picture, right, 256 00:13:08.799 --> 00:13:13.320 like that this originated here, right, not this is true 257 00:13:13.679 --> 00:13:17.840 or not that you're trusting that if it came from 258 00:13:17.960 --> 00:13:21.120 this place, it's true. The other area that I think 259 00:13:21.159 --> 00:13:23.279 that a lot of brands are going to really jump 260 00:13:23.320 --> 00:13:27.639 into is prediction markets. And it's a weird way of 261 00:13:27.879 --> 00:13:33.679 saying it, but like why wouldn't Bloomberg or CNBC start 262 00:13:33.679 --> 00:13:37.320 to highlight prediction markets or use prediction markets on their sites? 263 00:13:37.720 --> 00:13:37.919 Right? 264 00:13:38.240 --> 00:13:41.200 Like, if you think about information, like information is really 265 00:13:41.320 --> 00:13:44.720 just in three forms. It's you know, you're informing someone, 266 00:13:44.720 --> 00:13:46.639 you're providing insights, or you're entertaining. 267 00:13:47.080 --> 00:13:47.279 Right. 268 00:13:47.559 --> 00:13:51.600 If you're informing or providing insights, why not give the 269 00:13:51.639 --> 00:13:55.879 consumer the chance to be entertained right within a manner 270 00:13:55.960 --> 00:13:58.799 in which they can now you know, use their knowledge 271 00:13:58.879 --> 00:14:02.919 as a form of sort of like advantaging themselves or 272 00:14:02.960 --> 00:14:04.200 disadvantaging themselves. 273 00:14:04.320 --> 00:14:04.480 Right. 274 00:14:04.480 --> 00:14:06.320 So I think there's just like all these small things. 275 00:14:06.320 --> 00:14:07.759 And then the final area I would say is is 276 00:14:08.399 --> 00:14:10.480 I do think that, you know, a lot of media 277 00:14:10.480 --> 00:14:15.879 brands will move towards evolved subscription models, right, And I 278 00:14:15.919 --> 00:14:19.320 think that the ability to start to use a token 279 00:14:19.360 --> 00:14:22.720 as a sort of like a CRM mechanism to gather 280 00:14:22.879 --> 00:14:26.039 information around the consumer horizontally to be able to get 281 00:14:26.080 --> 00:14:28.879 a better picture of who they are, will will enable 282 00:14:28.919 --> 00:14:31.679 them to create better communities and monetize differently. 283 00:14:32.120 --> 00:14:35.080 Let's double click on that last one, sure, where you 284 00:14:35.080 --> 00:14:38.080 know you mentioned the token being used to kind of 285 00:14:38.120 --> 00:14:41.919 build brand resonance, keep the community going engaged. Do you 286 00:14:42.000 --> 00:14:45.559 see the different companies out there to Amazon's the apples 287 00:14:45.600 --> 00:14:48.519 creating their own token, rewarding you for holding it and 288 00:14:48.600 --> 00:14:52.559 allow there may be interoperability with other companies and brands 289 00:14:52.559 --> 00:14:54.279 that you can take that token and spend it there 290 00:14:54.320 --> 00:14:55.039 and things like that. 291 00:14:55.879 --> 00:14:59.320 I think that that's a real use case that could exist. 292 00:14:59.320 --> 00:15:01.559 I don't think that we're there yet, right. I feel 293 00:15:01.600 --> 00:15:04.240 like that that's the thing that everyone wants to do 294 00:15:04.720 --> 00:15:07.720 right like, or that's the promise that it goes towards. 295 00:15:07.799 --> 00:15:09.799 You know, there's a lot of things that you have 296 00:15:09.840 --> 00:15:13.639 to think about when it comes to blockchain technologies. 297 00:15:13.720 --> 00:15:13.879 Right. 298 00:15:14.639 --> 00:15:17.320 One of the best aspects of blockchain technology, right is 299 00:15:17.399 --> 00:15:21.840 it's transparency, right right, you could see where someone goes 300 00:15:21.919 --> 00:15:24.639 like but you know when you read the press around 301 00:15:24.720 --> 00:15:27.840 like Amazon launching like its own token, the question you 302 00:15:27.840 --> 00:15:30.840 have to ask is is, like, until there's a privacy 303 00:15:30.879 --> 00:15:35.639 factor right associated with the token, why would Amazon ever 304 00:15:36.080 --> 00:15:36.440 do that? 305 00:15:36.720 --> 00:15:37.360 Because if I. 306 00:15:37.360 --> 00:15:40.159 Was Walmart, I would literally just be looking at Amazon's 307 00:15:40.200 --> 00:15:42.440 token and I would see what all their customers are doing, 308 00:15:42.720 --> 00:15:45.399 right r and so like this is where you start 309 00:15:45.399 --> 00:15:50.000 to see a lot of the tokens out there push 310 00:15:50.360 --> 00:15:54.720 for privacy features right like and and so like when 311 00:15:54.759 --> 00:15:57.240 you start to think about stuff like that, like you're 312 00:15:57.279 --> 00:16:02.759 seeing an emergence of like privacy or or like regulated privacy. 313 00:16:04.039 --> 00:16:06.919 Emerge. And the one challenge. 314 00:16:06.600 --> 00:16:09.919 That people have is full privacy right will violate a 315 00:16:09.919 --> 00:16:13.720 lot of the regulated money transmitter rules. And so you 316 00:16:13.799 --> 00:16:17.360 do need some sort of privacy initiative that allows for 317 00:16:17.840 --> 00:16:21.120 it to be private, but if needed, unzipped to be 318 00:16:21.159 --> 00:16:22.919 able to be accessed by regulators. 319 00:16:23.240 --> 00:16:26.000 Sure, so if they weren't to launch a coin, they 320 00:16:26.039 --> 00:16:29.039 have to have some sort of ZK technology and you 321 00:16:29.080 --> 00:16:32.559 can't see everything, you know, the supply maybe to token 322 00:16:33.480 --> 00:16:36.080 and it's interoppable with different blockchains. But that's it. 323 00:16:36.200 --> 00:16:37.879 And like, and the way to think about it though, 324 00:16:37.919 --> 00:16:41.440 is is people really misunderstand crypto if we were to 325 00:16:41.440 --> 00:16:43.720 step back, because we've gone down a rabbit home one area, right, 326 00:16:43.759 --> 00:16:46.720 but like but you know, like let's let's step back, 327 00:16:47.000 --> 00:16:50.840 Like why is crypto misunderstood? It's misunderstood because it's treated 328 00:16:50.919 --> 00:16:54.279 like a vertical category when it's really a horizontal category, right. 329 00:16:54.320 --> 00:16:57.440 And what I mean by that is like going back 330 00:16:57.440 --> 00:17:02.519 to my time in media, print, Print is a vertical category. Right, 331 00:17:02.600 --> 00:17:07.440 You're either a magazine or a newspaper, or you're not right, right. 332 00:17:09.079 --> 00:17:14.480 TV or broadcast or radio, terrestrial radio, those are vertical categories. 333 00:17:14.480 --> 00:17:20.079 You're either linear television or terrestrial radio, or you're not right. 334 00:17:20.400 --> 00:17:22.480 So you're following me so far, right? These are analog 335 00:17:22.599 --> 00:17:25.279 vertical categories. When you get to digital, digital is a 336 00:17:25.279 --> 00:17:29.839 horizontal platform. Anything that can be digitized ultimately will be digitized. 337 00:17:29.839 --> 00:17:32.079 So you could have digital text, you could have digital audio, 338 00:17:32.079 --> 00:17:34.519 you could have digital video, you could also share digital. 339 00:17:34.599 --> 00:17:36.920 You could target digital differently. You could do things with 340 00:17:37.000 --> 00:17:40.799 digital that you cannot do in verticals that are analog. Right, 341 00:17:41.720 --> 00:17:44.599 So people understand that, right when it comes to media, 342 00:17:44.880 --> 00:17:48.599 that digital is a horizontal correct, right. Okay, So now 343 00:17:48.680 --> 00:17:51.119 take that step one step further into the crypto space. 344 00:17:51.160 --> 00:17:52.640 What is crypto really? Right? 345 00:17:52.799 --> 00:17:57.160 Crypto is tokenization, right, so if it could be digitized, 346 00:17:57.880 --> 00:18:01.279 once it's digitized, it could be tokenized, right, So what 347 00:18:01.319 --> 00:18:04.720 does that make crypto? It makes crypto a horizontal platform 348 00:18:04.759 --> 00:18:07.279 as well, not a vertical category. And why is it 349 00:18:07.319 --> 00:18:09.559 covered by vertical as a vertical category, because it's just 350 00:18:09.559 --> 00:18:13.160 misunderstood by the media. And what does the media like 351 00:18:13.240 --> 00:18:15.599 to cover? They like to cover really three things, right. 352 00:18:15.599 --> 00:18:18.039 They like to cover bitcoin, they like to cover fart coin, 353 00:18:18.079 --> 00:18:20.359 and they like to cover stable coins, right, And like 354 00:18:20.440 --> 00:18:22.359 why do they like to cover bitcoin and part coin? 355 00:18:22.799 --> 00:18:24.599 I told you I could make the cameramen smile, right, 356 00:18:25.319 --> 00:18:27.359 Why they like to cover bitcoin and part cooin? Let's 357 00:18:27.359 --> 00:18:29.839 start there, right, Like, Bitcoin's the largest asset class in 358 00:18:29.839 --> 00:18:33.240 crypto and fartcoin's the most ridiculous set class in crypto, right, 359 00:18:33.680 --> 00:18:35.519 and everyone looks at it and goes, how could you 360 00:18:35.559 --> 00:18:37.920 have something called farkcoin the is three hundred million market 361 00:18:38.000 --> 00:18:41.160 cap at this time and day, and then stable coins 362 00:18:41.240 --> 00:18:45.480 they're just covering because there's so much commotion about institutional adoption. 363 00:18:45.720 --> 00:18:49.079 Let's unpack this for a second. Right, Bitcoin is its 364 00:18:49.119 --> 00:18:50.720 own vertical, right. 365 00:18:51.200 --> 00:18:52.960 I can argue. 366 00:18:52.519 --> 00:18:56.559 That the usp, the unique selling proposition of bitcoin is 367 00:18:56.559 --> 00:18:59.559 that it's just an alternative asset class. You can argue 368 00:18:59.559 --> 00:19:03.200 with me whether or not that is a valid statement, 369 00:19:03.279 --> 00:19:05.680 but like that's the usp of bitcoin. Really at the 370 00:19:05.759 --> 00:19:09.160 end of the day, the ETFs, that's their own vertical 371 00:19:09.160 --> 00:19:12.240 in crypto. Right, what are the ETFs really? The ETFs 372 00:19:12.240 --> 00:19:16.319 are really a container for traditional financial institutions to be 373 00:19:16.359 --> 00:19:18.799 able to hold these new asset classes in a manner 374 00:19:18.839 --> 00:19:22.599 that is highly regulated and compliant to their existing infrastructure. 375 00:19:22.759 --> 00:19:23.039 Right. 376 00:19:23.559 --> 00:19:27.240 What are stable coins? Stable Coins are you know, tokens 377 00:19:27.240 --> 00:19:29.359 that are pegged to a currency at a one to 378 00:19:29.359 --> 00:19:31.359 one ratio, primarily the US dollar. 379 00:19:31.440 --> 00:19:35.400 Right now, Right, that's the unique proposition of it. Right, 380 00:19:35.400 --> 00:19:35.680 you have. 381 00:19:35.640 --> 00:19:39.400 Stability and that you can digitally move money in the internet. 382 00:19:39.880 --> 00:19:42.359 What is real world US It's it's just the tokenization 383 00:19:42.480 --> 00:19:45.640 of these commodities, right, So they could be traded differently. 384 00:19:45.799 --> 00:19:47.279 What are mean coins. 385 00:19:49.240 --> 00:19:49.720 Gambling? 386 00:19:50.119 --> 00:19:50.319 Right? 387 00:19:50.400 --> 00:19:53.119 Like, so like what is like what is Maybe that's 388 00:19:53.160 --> 00:19:55.440 the wrong term, but like what is fart coin really? 389 00:19:55.559 --> 00:19:58.759 It's the ability Like if you really wanted to distill 390 00:19:58.799 --> 00:20:01.680 this down to like, how could you justifiably with a 391 00:20:01.720 --> 00:20:06.200 straight face talk about parkcoin, Like it's you have an 392 00:20:06.359 --> 00:20:10.519 entire society that, over the past, you know, twenty years, 393 00:20:10.920 --> 00:20:15.720 has fixated on attention, and now you have a technology, 394 00:20:16.119 --> 00:20:20.720 with blockchain technology that allows you to monetize attention. And 395 00:20:20.799 --> 00:20:24.039 so what is farkcoin really? It's the monetization of attention 396 00:20:24.279 --> 00:20:27.079 by groups of people, right, Yes, And like when you 397 00:20:27.079 --> 00:20:29.039 step back and you're like, what can a blockchain really 398 00:20:29.039 --> 00:20:30.799 do that you can't do without a blockchain, it's really 399 00:20:30.839 --> 00:20:35.559 just three things. It's authentication, digital ownership, and the removal 400 00:20:35.599 --> 00:20:40.240 of intermediaries, right and and so like when you look 401 00:20:40.240 --> 00:20:44.559