Speaker 1: All right, y'all, Hey, come on, this is knock if
you snow more with your host doctor and evangelist Hey A.
Speaker 2: Rich, help you to admit.
Speaker 1: What you feel it you feel wrong the event of
narcissistic abuse, because you're feelings.
Speaker 2: You do matters how you are doing a man in
narcissistic land.
Speaker 1: This is Doctor Ko Rich or nark Abuse No More,
where we're here to help you admit what you feel
in order to heal from the effects of narcissistic abuse, because.
Speaker 2: Your feelings do matter, Yes they do.
Speaker 1: But before we go on with today's podcast, I'd like
to invite you to visit us on our website at
www dot nrc NA r C Abuse Nomore dot net.
Www dot na r C Abuse No More dot net
and on our website you'll find valuable information. We're gonna
be adding more things to the website so that you
can learn and be able to read about different types
of abuse, healing from abuse, forgiveness and all those things
as it pertains to narcissism. I pray that you're stress free,
narcissistic free, abuse free, and that the remainder of this
week will continue to be so as well. But if not,
We're going to be talking about a few things today.
So what are we talking about today? We're gonna talk
about The question is often asked, is it possible for
an abuser to change?
Speaker 2: Is it possible for an abuser to change?
Speaker 1: Because many times people are in relationships that.
Speaker 2: They're praying and hoping for that abuser to.
Speaker 1: Change, and you want to know, is it even possible
for that person to change? I wanna go to before
we go on with that quot to answer that question.
I wanna go to the book of Joel in the
Bible Joel chapter two, verse thirteen. Joel chapter two, verse thirteen.
And many people might think, well, the Bible doesn't talk
about abuse, But yes, there are many scriptures that deal
with how we are supposed to operate, and that one
of those things is not to be ab abusive.
Speaker 2: But when it God God, he had had issues.
Speaker 1: With Israel, okay, with Israel and Judah because they were
rebellious and they were into all kinds of different things
that went against God. But the thing is, I wanna
bring your attention to this particular verse as in Joel
chapter two and verse thirteen. And Israel had a habit
of of looking the part, but not actually being the part.
Speaker 2: Okay, so looking excuse me, looking like they were.
Speaker 1: They were uh, following God's laws. They were prideful because
they thought, oh, we're Jews and the temple the Lord
is here. But then they did not they did not
have a heart for God. So so God had something
to say to them regarding that, and in verse thirteen,
it says, ren your heart and not your garments. Return
to the Lord your God, for he is gracious and compassionate,
slow to anger, and abounding in love, and he relents
from sending calamity.
Speaker 2: So what God was telling.
Speaker 1: The Israel through the prophet job was that when it
when it says rend your hearts, it was customary to
to tear their garments when there was sadness, when there.
Speaker 2: Was a when they uh.
Speaker 1: When there was different test trials and things going on,
and as a as a sign of confession and repentance.
But see, they were doing things on the outside and
they were not actually changing their hearts. And so God
was saying, you know, I don't want lip service. I
don't want to just see you do it on the outside,
just as an outward displayed to make it appear as
if you're changing. So in another version it says, don't
tear your clothing in your grief, but tear your hearts instead.
Speaker 2: And what God was saying you need to change your
inner man.
Speaker 1: You change your heart, not just your outward garments to
make it look like you're changing. So so with that
being said, I use that particular scripture because when you're
trying to answer the question can a person change, you know,
there's a lot that goes into that. You know, we
we we often throughout our the course of our lifetime,
we change as we're going into for as growing up.
Kids change as they get into puberty, and then that
adolescent stage, at that teenage stage, and then at young
the young adult stage, and as we're growing we experience changes. Okay,
but the thing is is that those are oftentimes natural changes.
But when you're dealing with a situation when someone is abusive,
takes that takes intentional change. Okay, that takes you being
conscious that you have a problem that needs to be
that needs to be modified, that needs to be changed. Okay,
so can you change? Nothing is impossible. But the thing
is is that a person has the first of all,
acknowledge that there is a problem, and then they have
to really be honest with themselves and say, you know what,
I need to get help.
Speaker 2: Okay, I need to get help.
Speaker 1: And so one part of changing will involve that abusive
person being willing to get intervention.
Speaker 2: Intervention what I mean.
Speaker 1: I'm not talking about your buddies that's gonna say, oh,
you know, you don't need to do anything. I'm talking
about something intervention in getting counselor some type of therapy,
some type of program that's gonna actually help them to
understand their behavior, to change their behavior, to have them
reflect on it and be held accountable for their behavior.
Speaker 2: That means that if they want to.
Speaker 1: Change, they have to learn other ways to express their
anger or whatever it is in order.
Speaker 2: To seriously change.
Speaker 1: And so there are some things that some things that abusers,
if they want to change, they can do in order
to show true change. But let me just say this,
if you're in an abusive situation and that person, if
you know you're in an abusive situation, it is best
to get help for yourself.
Speaker 2: Do not wait for this person to change.
Speaker 1: If you're being abused and you're in a dangerous situation,
you need to get out as safely as possible. That
means that you need to talk to other people. We're
gonna talk about how to go about leaving, because even
after you leave this person, you still have to be safe, okay,
because oftentimes there there's times when even after the person
has left the relationship that that narcissistic abuser does not
want to let go of that individual. And so you
also need to be able to recognize signs and also
know what to do so that you could be safe. Okay,
Because it's not just about leaving, it's also being safe
when you leave. And we're gonna talk about that in
an upcoming podcast. But I wanna give you some things
that you can that abuser. How for is how abuse
an abuser can change and this is from Arthur Nundi Bancroft,
and the following are changes in that person that indicate
that they're making progress in their recovery. Now, if somebody said, oh,
I can change, I can change. No, no, don't just
take their word for that. They need to be actually
in recovery. That means that they need to be going
to counseling. Rather it's a group counseling. And don't just
do don't just believe just because they're going that they're
making progress. Okay, because sometimes even with court mandated counseling,
a person will go, but it's not really voluntary voluntary.
I mean they're being court mandated to go, or now
they it's voluntary for us.
Speaker 2: They're making the decision you either go to jail or
you go to counseling.
Speaker 1: Okay, but it still has its involuntary aspects.
Speaker 2: So they're not doing it.
Speaker 1: Oh because I really see that I need to get
this help.
Speaker 2: Is that this is a last resort. It used to
be a time.
Speaker 1: I don't know if they still do it, but it
used to be a time when youth and when certain
youth got in trouble and they were of age that
the judge will order, hey, you either go to.
Speaker 2: Jail or you go into the military. Make your choice. Okay.
Speaker 1: So when you're dealing with someone that's abusive and they're
going to counseling, it needs to be something that they
have seen that hey, I need this help, not just
because they trying to keep you or get you back.
They need to actually see for themselves, within themselves that
they actually are doing things that is unacceptable and they
need help to change. But as for you, do not
rely on that person. Okay, you don't want to rely
on that person to make changes. You have to see
what is best for you in that situation. Is it
best for you to not be in an abusive situation?
So I wanna go over some things that's indicate that
are indicators that a person is making change. Number One,
they admit fully to what they have done. Number one,
If a person does not admit that they have done
something wrong, then they don't fully admit it and don't
know the fullness of how much damage that it has done.
If they're not fully admitting that they have done something wrong,
then that there's a problem right there.
Speaker 2: You know.
Speaker 1: Even when it comes to God, the Bible says, if
we confess our sins, he is faithful and just to
forgive us and cleanse us from all unrighteousness.
Speaker 2: There needs to be a confession, but not just lip service.
Speaker 1: Because sometimes people say, oh, I'm sorry, I know I
hit you, blah blah blah, and they and they'll continue
doing it the next time.
Speaker 2: So they have to come to the.
Speaker 1: Full realization of what they have done. And if a
person would not actually say I was wrong, I should
not have done that, I should not.
Speaker 2: Have did you that way.
Speaker 1: If they cannot fully appreciate what they have actually done
that is harmful to you, then there's a problem right there.
Speaker 2: So that's number one.
Speaker 1: Number two, if they stop making excuses and blaming.
Speaker 2: Do what that mean by that? Sometimes? Excuse me.
Speaker 1: Sometimes when people are in this type of abusive situation
a relationship and they're the abuser, they tend to blame
the victim. So instead of them taking responsibility for what
they have done, they will make excuses, Oh, because you
did this, then that's why I did that.
Speaker 2: That is unacceptable.
Speaker 1: That means that you're not fully Going back to number one,
you're not fully admitting what you've done.
Speaker 2: You're not fully acknowledging what you did.
Speaker 1: So therefore, number two, you're making an excuse and blaming
someone else or some situation as to why you're acting
the way you are. For example, someone that comes in
beat their wife to a pope because they had a
bad day on a job. So then they will say, oh,
I'm so sorry because I was up under all this
stress and so therefore I took.
Speaker 2: It out on you.
Speaker 1: And because you didn't cook the food right and you
didn't earn the clothes, right, But even though I had
a bad day at the job, I'm gonna take it
out on you because you made my day as.
Speaker 2: Bad as well. That is not acceptable.
Speaker 1: Being truly in a posture of change means that I
was wrong.
Speaker 2: Period. I'm not gonna blame somebody else for what I did. Period.
I take full accountability for what I did. Period.
Speaker 1: This is what I did, period.
Speaker 2: This is why I did it because, and not to blame.
Speaker 1: You were saying, I did this because I did not
take responsibility for what I did, and therefore I allowed
my anger to get the best of me, and I
took it out on you.
Speaker 2: Period. No excuses.
Speaker 1: Now, when you were in therapy, they can talk to
you about things that may have led up to you
doing this. But when you are truly changing, you're not
gonna blame the victim. You're gonna take accountability for yourself.
There's no butts though, there's no excuses, there's no shift blaming.
You're gonna take accountability for what you did. Period number three.
When you are, when a person is truly in that
posture for change, they're gonna make amends. They're gonna try
to make amends. They gonnay. They they're gonna try to
how can I fix this? What can I do to
get this right? How can I you know, I know
I did something wrong to you. I'm so sorry. What
can I do to make this right? And even if
you don't stay in that relationship that person, if they're truly,
truly sorry, they're gonna be able to even accept that
if you decide, hey, you know, I'm not gonna stay
in this relationship anymore, But they're not gonna go without saying,
you know what, I'm sorry. Is there anything that I
could do to make this right? Number four, accept the
responsibility and recognizing that abuse is a choice.
Speaker 2: An abuse is a choice. Don't n No one has
to go hit someone.
Speaker 1: No one has to verbally abuse you, no one has
to emotionally abuse you.
Speaker 2: No one has to spiritual abuse you or financially. It's
a choice.
Speaker 1: When you choose to abuse someone, you are making a
conscious choice that I am going to do this. There
there's no excuses, there's no accidents. You have to take
responsibility and say I chose to do this. No one
made you do it. I chose to do this, I
chose to react in this manner, taking responsibility.
Speaker 2: And one thing that we know that abusers.
Speaker 1: And narcissists don't do is they don't like to take responsibility.
But when you are truly in that posture for change,
you gonna accept responsibility and recognize that your abuse was
a choice. We're gonna take a quick break and we'll
be back in just a moment.
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Speaker 2: And that is this love makes me thank God. All right?
Speaker 1: All right, So we are still talking about is it
possible for an abuser to change, and we went over
that they have to admit what they have done, stop
making excuses and blaming, make amends, accepting responsibility, and recognizing
that abuse is a choice. Number five identifying patterns of controlling.
Speaker 2: Behavior they use.
Speaker 1: And they will only be able to do this if
they go to counseling. So they have to understand what
they're doing that is an abuse, an abusive pattern. They
have to understand what you know when they're using controlling tactics.
And this is where a therapist will come in as
a counselor or a support group will come in at
to let them know, Okay, this is what I do
that's considered abuse because it's not always We know the
obvious for is hitting someone, but there are other things
that is abusive as well, and some things that lead
up to that ultimate explosion. So they have to identify
the patterns of controlling behavior that they use. People often
don't think that being a person that's controlling is abusive,
but yes, that is abusive behavior. Another thing Number six
is identifying the attitudes that drive their abuse. That means
that if I am having a bad day and I
start beating someone else, then that's my bad day means
that I'm causing someone else to have a bad day
when I decide to be abusive. If I am, if
I'm having a moody time and I start just verbally
starting to fight with someone, then that's I have to
recognize what are my triggers so that I will not
allow myself.
Speaker 2: To be an abuser. Okay, So knowing those triggers, knowing
those attitudes that drive the abuse.
Speaker 1: Number seven, accepting that overcoming abusiveness is a process. Okay,
so they cannot declare themselves, oh I'm cured of this.
Speaker 2: No, this is a process. So if someone beat you
on Monday and I'm cured on Friday, no, no, no, no,
no no.
Speaker 1: This is a process. This means that I need to
get help. I need to talk to someone. We gotta
discuss some things. Regardless or what type of what type
of treatment plan that that counselor uses with that particular person.
Everybody's is gonna be unique. But the thing is is
that you have to get in front of someone who
can help you to recognize Okay, this is what I'm
used to doing. This is you have to understand that
I have to take time to get to know what's
inside of me, why I'm doing this, and it's a process.
Speaker 2: It's a process. So someone who's the recipient of.
Speaker 1: An abuser and they come back, oh, I've changed, and
you just got beat on Monday or Tuesday or whatever
case may be.
Speaker 7: No, no, no, no, no no.
Speaker 2: That person needs to go get have some.
Speaker 1: Spend some quality time with a counselor or someone in
order to not continue the abuse. Another thing is number eight,
not demanding credit for improvements they made. This is something
that is important because we know that narcissists is all
They're all about themselves and they want to be recognized,
admired and all these things.
Speaker 2: When you when you are in the posture of change,
you're saying that I am trying to change.
Speaker 1: That means that even if no one gives you credit
for the things that you are changing in you can
handle that. You don't demand that someone that especially your abuse,
or demand that they acknowledge.
Speaker 2: That you changed. That's not for you to do. That
changes for you. That changes for you. Rather you get
credit for it than not.
Speaker 1: Because you have some abusers, they think, oh, because I
haven't hit this person in the week, Oh because I
haven't said anything to this person in the month, or
oh I deserve credit, give me c give me credit,
give me credit, greve No, no, no, no, no. Regardless
of it, if you get credit for it, then not
that is for you.
Speaker 2: That change is for you. And that's something that if
someone is thinking that.
Speaker 1: That people owe them credit for their change, no that
they No one owes you credit for change. That change
is for you to be a better person, regardless of
if someone else stays in the relationship or not a
le regardless of if it's someone else. Uh uh, cause
that person, you know, the person that you may have
been abusive to, may decide, you know what, even if
they change, I'm not gonna stay with them.
Speaker 2: Okay, you have to accept that that change is for you.
Number nine.
Speaker 1: Not treating improvements as vouchers to be spent on an
occasional acting abuse. I haven't done anything like this in
a long time, so it's no big deal. So basically, uh,
you feel like, oh, I've gone six months and I
haven't abused them in six months, so I'm I'm gonna
go ahead and do it now.
Speaker 2: No, that is not a free vouture for you to
be able to say that I've gone this.
Speaker 1: Length of time and having abused that I, yuh haven't
abused that person. You don't get to decide that I'm
going to abuse someone just because you decide you're having
a bad day and you feel like I've gone a
long time, so it doesn't matter.
Speaker 2: That person's feelings that you abusing do matter.
Speaker 1: So this person feels as if they got a uh
a uh a free get out of jail car because
they've gone X number of days, months, weeks or whatever
even years and feel like, oh, I can abuse cause
it's been such a long time.
Speaker 2: No, absolutely not. Abuse is never acceptable.
Speaker 1: It doesn't matter if it happens once a month, once
a week, once a day, once.
Speaker 2: A year, every few years. Abuse is never acceptable. Number ten.
Speaker 1: Developing respectful kind support of boundaries. That means that when
you when this person is truly in a posture change,
That means that they will respect your boundaries. They will
not get try to get you to change your boundaries.
Speaker 2: They will accept it.
Speaker 1: That means that, you know, if I don't want to
talk to you, then you have to accept that. If
that means that even if I decide to leave this relationship,
you have to accept that that.
Speaker 2: Means that if I only want to deal with you
when it comes to just the children and nothing more,
that's you have to accept that when you're in a
true posture change.
Speaker 1: That means that I have to accept the boundaries that
my victim is putting up against me for their own protection.
That means that that person has gotten an order of
protection against you. You have to accept that. That means
no going on the job on their job, no calling them,
or if they.
Speaker 2: Say, hey, I don't want to receive no phone calls.
They've blocked the number.
Speaker 1: Don't go get another phone to try to call from
another number, don't try to go around their friends.
Speaker 2: Accept their boundaries. We're gonna take another quick break and
we'll be back.
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I believe we're at number eleven.
Speaker 1: Another thing that when someone's in a posture change, they
need to carry their weight and sharing power.
Speaker 2: Carry their weight and and carrying their weight means they're
not putting everything on the victim. Okay.
Speaker 1: They they need to carry their own weight and share
that power. Okay, So they're not being supportive, they're not
carrying their own weight in the relationship. Then they're not
in a posture of change, okay. That mean that means
that they need to do their part in the relationship
because they also brought drama to that relationship because of
their abuse. Number e number twelve, changing how they respond
to their partner or former partner's anger and grievances.
Speaker 2: That means that if.
Speaker 1: Someone if you you you have victimized someone, then that
means that when that person responds with anger or they're
grieving because of what you've done to them, you do
not respond in anger manner. That means that you when
you're in the posture changing, that means that you're learning
how to control your anger because that person has a
right to feel as if you have not kept your
word in a relationship because you For those who are
married to abusers, you promise to love, honor, and obey.
The thing is is that that person did not love you,
That person did not honor you, that person did not
respect you. You cannot honor, love, and respect someone if
you are abusing them, and so people have to learn
what true love is. So therefore, changing how you respond
that means that when I'm when I'm changing, I'm learning
to not use my fists I'm using, I'm learning to
use other methods of controlling my anger. Or even if
you are a verbal abuser, I'm not using my words
to hurt someone.
Speaker 2: I'm using I'm.
Speaker 1: Learning other methods of the ways to be able to
control my anger. Number thirteen, Changing how they act in
heated conflicts.
Speaker 2: That means that when you all have a disagreement, if you're.
Speaker 1: In the posture of change, that means that I, as
we just mentioned, I am learning to change how I react.
I'm going to respond instead of reacting, and my response
is not going to be any type of manipulation or
type of verbal abuse or physical abuse for that matter,
I'm changing how I act any heated conflicts, and that
requires you to go to counseling of some sort in
order to learn what methods or what techniques I can
use in order to change what I've been doing. Last,
but not least, accepting the consequences of their actions, including
not feeling sorry for themselves about the consequences and not
blaming their partner or children for them. That means that
whatever comes from this relationship, even if it means a divorce,
even if it means separation. Someone that may be going
no contact, low contact, I have to accept the consequences of.
Speaker 2: What my actions brought about.
Speaker 1: When you're in the postive change, that means that that
other person gets to decide what works best for them.
Speaker 2: And I have to accept it.
Speaker 1: And all of those things are what brings what you
would know if someone is truly truly changing. However the
change is for them, that change means that they even
if you don't be around this person, even if you
don't stay with this person, even if you don't if
you decide what I'm gonna leave this I'm gonna exit
this relationship.
Speaker 2: I'm gonna low.
Speaker 1: Contact, no contact, whatever you decide to do regarding this relationship.
The other person has to be willing to accept it
if they're truly in a posture of change. Just like
we often say changes for I mean, we often say
forgiveness is for you, not just for that other person.
Speaker 2: It's for you, But so is change. Change is for them,
not just for you.
Speaker 1: It's for them because rather you stay with them or
be in that relationship with them or not, they still
need to deal with their own issues. All right, we
are about it here at present. Today's podcast has been
a blessing for you and to you and that you
would know your feelings do matter.
Speaker 2: This is doctor k o Rich. Until next time, the
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