WEBVTT 1 00:01:51.239 --> 00:02:12.080 Dire wave. The scientific method cannot justify the scientific method. 2 00:02:12.280 --> 00:03:14.599 Therefore itself, it is a dogmatical presupposition. It's a lovely 3 00:03:14.680 --> 00:03:15.560 man voice. 4 00:03:15.360 --> 00:03:19.199 Not a effeminine positive defamation. 5 00:03:19.719 --> 00:03:26.960 Yes, welcome, we're live. I think should be good. We're here, 6 00:03:27.000 --> 00:03:28.919 and today it's a little bit different. We're going to 7 00:03:29.000 --> 00:03:34.199 have my discord with me because I'm scared. I need 8 00:03:34.240 --> 00:03:37.599 all my backup people because I'm afraid of Ejahs and 9 00:03:37.639 --> 00:03:40.919 all the Muslim I'm joking not but we're going to 10 00:03:41.159 --> 00:03:45.560 do Q and A or stump or debate or whatever. Now, 11 00:03:46.159 --> 00:03:49.520 if you just want to come on voice and ask questions, 12 00:03:49.919 --> 00:03:52.000 you can do that through the discord. I'll put the 13 00:03:52.039 --> 00:03:55.840 link in in a second. If you want to come 14 00:03:55.879 --> 00:04:01.120 on a video debate, I have a zoom link open 15 00:04:01.199 --> 00:04:03.080 as well, and I can send you that link. So 16 00:04:03.120 --> 00:04:06.240 we offered. Ejaz said he was ready, he was ready 17 00:04:06.280 --> 00:04:08.759 to go, ready to debate. We've offered for months and 18 00:04:08.800 --> 00:04:10.560 months and months to set up a debate with this guy. 19 00:04:11.439 --> 00:04:14.840 Anyone doing so He says, oh, I don't mean today, 20 00:04:14.960 --> 00:04:20.319 even though he said I'm ready to go. Anyway, we 21 00:04:20.360 --> 00:04:22.560 will do Q and A. We'll do Q and A. Also 22 00:04:22.480 --> 00:04:24.399 we have a. We have all the discord wirdos here. 23 00:04:24.399 --> 00:04:24.839 What's up? 24 00:04:25.879 --> 00:04:27.879 Yeah, you get debate Jordan Peterson if you want. 25 00:04:27.959 --> 00:04:30.000 If he wants, you got him right here. 26 00:04:30.040 --> 00:04:33.560 Okay, I'm ready to debate. I can debate anyone right now, 27 00:04:34.279 --> 00:04:34.879 ready to go. 28 00:04:35.319 --> 00:04:39.240 So if you don't want to come on audio, thank you, Jordan. Uh, 29 00:04:39.279 --> 00:04:41.800 you can also leave me a stream lab super chat 30 00:04:41.959 --> 00:04:46.439 question or challenge right, it's it's the challenge is open. 31 00:04:46.720 --> 00:04:49.519 We make it really easy to debate, Like, it's super 32 00:04:49.560 --> 00:04:54.920 easy to come debate. There's no hoops. You don't have 33 00:04:54.920 --> 00:04:57.600 to jump through hoops to come debate here. It's very easy. 34 00:04:58.519 --> 00:05:02.720 And now I've even opened it up to audio, so 35 00:05:03.199 --> 00:05:05.000 that is the link there. If you want to join 36 00:05:05.040 --> 00:05:07.399 the discord, you will have to be vetted, of course first, 37 00:05:07.399 --> 00:05:11.199 to come in the discord. You can't just everybody can't. 38 00:05:11.240 --> 00:05:15.199 Just pile and read the rules, rules, questions, and then 39 00:05:15.240 --> 00:05:18.519 you'll be vetted. And after you're vetted and we decide 40 00:05:18.560 --> 00:05:22.720 that you have the balls, we'll let you come in. Yeah, 41 00:05:22.720 --> 00:05:26.240 what it toos, you're not late? Welcome? 42 00:05:26.240 --> 00:05:26.480 All right? 43 00:05:26.519 --> 00:05:27.920 We got a good crowd here. Be sure to leave 44 00:05:27.920 --> 00:05:30.480 a like and a thumb up. Well that's the same 45 00:05:30.480 --> 00:05:33.639 thing and then also share it super chats. Thank you, 46 00:05:33.680 --> 00:05:36.040 okay as a mod there, he's putting the stream lab 47 00:05:36.120 --> 00:05:39.720 superchat there as a rough outline I'll be covering just 48 00:05:39.759 --> 00:05:42.120 because we're probably waiting for people to come in if 49 00:05:42.160 --> 00:05:43.839 they want to. We got a couple of Roman Catholics 50 00:05:43.879 --> 00:05:45.680 in the in the in the discord right now. I 51 00:05:45.720 --> 00:05:48.000 don't know if they're going to come in, but we've 52 00:05:48.000 --> 00:05:51.600 got the emergence of the Catholic tradition, the excellent Yarslav 53 00:05:51.680 --> 00:05:53.959 Pelican book. I'll use that as a rough outline for 54 00:05:54.040 --> 00:05:57.160 topics to discuss. But you can talk about whatever you 55 00:05:57.199 --> 00:06:00.000 want if you want to ask me questions about philosophy, 56 00:06:00.000 --> 00:06:02.720 if he challenge me, this is we got. I got 57 00:06:02.720 --> 00:06:07.439 incense burning up in here to make to set the ambiance. 58 00:06:07.480 --> 00:06:09.079 I saw one of them, p u a guys. He 59 00:06:09.120 --> 00:06:11.720 always lights incense before he starts his live stream, so 60 00:06:11.720 --> 00:06:13.360 I thought i'd rip him off into that. So I've 61 00:06:13.399 --> 00:06:16.959 lit incense. We've got the ambiance. We got the whiteboard here. 62 00:06:19.519 --> 00:06:23.000 If you're Muslim, if you're Rumman, Catholic, if you're set 63 00:06:23.040 --> 00:06:27.439 of a contest, if you're Protestant, Calvinist, evangelical, atheist, even 64 00:06:27.480 --> 00:06:30.480 if you're Jewish, or you're welcome to come and ask 65 00:06:30.560 --> 00:06:35.000 your questions, debate, challenge whatever if you want to. Now 66 00:06:35.040 --> 00:06:38.360 I'm not smoking weed, it's just incense. Pro If you 67 00:06:38.360 --> 00:06:41.560 want to come into the voice chat, go to the discord, 68 00:06:41.720 --> 00:06:45.519 join the discord. There's the link at my Twitter. Let 69 00:06:45.560 --> 00:06:49.480 me see if I get the actual just the discord link. Now, 70 00:06:49.639 --> 00:06:51.720 you know you gotta go to the you gotta go 71 00:06:51.720 --> 00:06:55.720 to the Twitter. That way, we can't have we can't 72 00:06:55.759 --> 00:06:57.279 just have everybody pulling in there, so you got to 73 00:06:57.319 --> 00:07:02.319 go to my Twitter. Catholic nonsense. Somebody said the chat anyway, 74 00:07:03.160 --> 00:07:05.839 what's up discord? Anybody? Is anybody in the discord right now? 75 00:07:05.879 --> 00:07:07.759 I know we got a full room. Does anybody want 76 00:07:07.800 --> 00:07:10.879 to come on the live stream and give us some 77 00:07:10.959 --> 00:07:12.959 chat material, questions, challenges? 78 00:07:20.199 --> 00:07:20.759 Silence? 79 00:07:24.759 --> 00:07:26.360 I mean we had I know, I know. So we 80 00:07:26.439 --> 00:07:28.519 opened this up today because we had a lot of 81 00:07:28.600 --> 00:07:31.639 Muslims talking and you know, making a lot of fuss, 82 00:07:31.839 --> 00:07:33.959 and so we opened it up. We had two or 83 00:07:33.959 --> 00:07:37.519 three Muslims talking smack all over Twitter. And then I said, 84 00:07:37.519 --> 00:07:39.759 come on, I even I'll even let you on here. 85 00:07:40.120 --> 00:07:41.720 Well we'll do a live stream. We'll start at the 86 00:07:41.759 --> 00:07:44.519 live stream, come on and debate Bra, debate me, Bra, 87 00:07:45.480 --> 00:07:48.040 and the dudes just left. We at least the dude 88 00:07:48.040 --> 00:07:52.199 that was talking to Smack left, So so I thought 89 00:07:52.240 --> 00:07:54.959 we were going to have some That link has expired. No, 90 00:07:55.079 --> 00:07:57.319 it's not. Go to my Twitter. At the top is 91 00:07:58.000 --> 00:08:01.160 an unexpired link. If that link was wrong, then go 92 00:08:01.240 --> 00:08:04.040 to my Twitter and then the latest link is not expired. 93 00:08:04.920 --> 00:08:07.560 I can't be expired. It's an hour old, not expired. 94 00:08:09.800 --> 00:08:12.439 Uh all right, let me try. Let me get another 95 00:08:12.480 --> 00:08:19.600 link for you guys, and it's expired. Okay, rest in peace. 96 00:08:21.600 --> 00:08:24.519 Let me get another link that shouldn't be expired after 97 00:08:24.600 --> 00:08:36.759 hour though, I don't know whatever. We got Father Deacon 98 00:08:36.799 --> 00:08:38.600 and Ias in the house. We got Lewis. We got 99 00:08:38.600 --> 00:08:41.559 a lot of our old old discord friends all here 100 00:08:41.600 --> 00:08:49.440 with us, old timers, old timers because of course we're 101 00:08:49.440 --> 00:08:51.320 all scared. We got to have a mob, right we have. 102 00:08:51.480 --> 00:08:54.120 We have to have backup because none of us individually 103 00:08:54.159 --> 00:08:56.440 can handle anybody in a debate. 104 00:08:56.639 --> 00:09:01.840 Or Yeah, finding Muslim people to debate is like trying 105 00:09:01.879 --> 00:09:04.200 to herd cats. 106 00:09:06.159 --> 00:09:10.480 We can't find them. Right. We got the chebar Ali debate. 107 00:09:10.840 --> 00:09:13.919 Okay, he did great in that I think shaver ally 108 00:09:15.039 --> 00:09:20.159 comported himself honorarily. And then now suddenly everyone's scared. Now 109 00:09:20.200 --> 00:09:23.159 it's no debate, no one debate Jane, and we. 110 00:09:23.080 --> 00:09:23.960 Can't find them. 111 00:09:24.000 --> 00:09:26.759 So it's like they accused lots of ox Christians is 112 00:09:26.799 --> 00:09:27.440 being scared. 113 00:09:28.600 --> 00:09:30.039 We offered the debate. 114 00:09:30.279 --> 00:09:32.679 I mean, we've said we've done three debates with Muslims, now, 115 00:09:32.720 --> 00:09:33.440 so how are we scared? 116 00:09:33.480 --> 00:09:35.200 It's just nonsense, yeah, exactly. 117 00:09:35.279 --> 00:09:40.600 And then they set up conditions that they want to groups. 118 00:09:40.279 --> 00:09:40.919 For us to jump. 119 00:09:41.039 --> 00:09:43.519 You don't debate me on a blood moon, on a leap, 120 00:09:43.559 --> 00:09:47.120 ear in the middle of Texas in an underground cave 121 00:09:48.360 --> 00:09:52.759 at two am. Then and we have to debate only 122 00:09:52.759 --> 00:09:56.440 in morse code I want to be and it has. 123 00:09:56.320 --> 00:09:58.960 To be you have to wear seal skins and it 124 00:09:59.039 --> 00:10:00.480 has to be more code. 125 00:10:00.519 --> 00:10:03.120 But you have to write haiku and then you have 126 00:10:03.200 --> 00:10:04.480 to record that morse. 127 00:10:04.399 --> 00:10:07.279 Code onto slate tablets, and then you have to have 128 00:10:07.320 --> 00:10:08.080 a blind. 129 00:10:07.799 --> 00:10:10.480 Man readout has to be translated into Hebrew and then 130 00:10:10.519 --> 00:10:12.919 written on vellum. 131 00:10:13.000 --> 00:10:17.639 Yeah, it's like okay, it's like, how about the. 132 00:10:21.480 --> 00:10:23.679 Next thing. It would be give me ten million dollars 133 00:10:23.720 --> 00:10:24.519 and I'll debate you. 134 00:10:24.799 --> 00:10:27.559 That'll be the next thing, I require a debater's fee 135 00:10:27.639 --> 00:10:30.080 of half a million dollars to appear. 136 00:10:30.360 --> 00:10:37.840 I have three goods and four CAFs. 137 00:10:37.919 --> 00:10:47.720 Please, I would also my way, all right, so read 138 00:10:47.919 --> 00:10:50.679 check out? Yeah as well, guys. 139 00:10:50.639 --> 00:10:54.399 The debate has to be done in sign language or Braille. 140 00:10:55.320 --> 00:10:57.480 If you don't do an animal sacrifice, if you don't 141 00:10:57.519 --> 00:10:58.720 do it in braill, it's because you're low. 142 00:10:58.759 --> 00:11:03.840 Like yeah, all. 143 00:11:03.840 --> 00:11:09.240 Right, so, uh, you guys, just you guys interrupt me. 144 00:11:09.320 --> 00:11:11.799 You guys can interrupt me if somebody comes in, if 145 00:11:11.840 --> 00:11:15.200 they want to do is there anybody who has any 146 00:11:15.279 --> 00:11:19.919 questions or challenges or or debate topics issues? I think 147 00:11:19.919 --> 00:11:22.000 I shared the newer link, by the way, so there's 148 00:11:22.039 --> 00:11:24.279 the new link if you want to come in. Uh, 149 00:11:24.279 --> 00:11:27.120 there will be people vetting people right now, so you 150 00:11:27.120 --> 00:11:29.080 guys can come in. I'm not talking to any I'm 151 00:11:29.120 --> 00:11:31.840 talking to you. Who am I talking to to you? 152 00:11:31.879 --> 00:11:32.440 In the chat? 153 00:11:32.559 --> 00:11:32.720 Bro? 154 00:11:32.879 --> 00:11:37.360 You Byzantine in the chat in the discord chat. You 155 00:11:37.440 --> 00:11:39.639 can come on. It's open, dude, We've got to open. 156 00:11:39.919 --> 00:11:42.320 Can you tell people to change the AVI? Is the 157 00:11:42.440 --> 00:11:46.159 profile pictures on Discord from the default because we kind. 158 00:11:46.039 --> 00:11:46.960 Of have a rule against that. 159 00:11:47.120 --> 00:11:50.799 So yeah, so if you come into the dis you 160 00:11:50.799 --> 00:11:53.120 come into the discord, you got to do our rules, 161 00:11:53.320 --> 00:11:55.320 all right, So when you leave you can go back 162 00:11:55.360 --> 00:11:57.759 to whatever you want, but in our discord, please follow 163 00:11:57.799 --> 00:11:58.240 the rules. 164 00:11:58.799 --> 00:12:00.000 Uh have a charge. 165 00:12:00.279 --> 00:12:06.679 Okay, we don't really do no hintai avatars, no, no whatever, 166 00:12:08.799 --> 00:12:09.360 there we go. 167 00:12:10.759 --> 00:12:11.960 No anime advatars. 168 00:12:12.080 --> 00:12:12.879 Yeah, we don't do that. 169 00:12:13.080 --> 00:12:17.279 You know this small us in the general. 170 00:12:17.440 --> 00:12:20.080 Yeah, that's that's the guy from a couple of nights 171 00:12:20.120 --> 00:12:23.240 ago that we spent the whole night with. So, uh, 172 00:12:23.279 --> 00:12:24.720 he says he's going to come in. Here we get 173 00:12:24.840 --> 00:12:27.399 a uni E who says he'll come in. But we 174 00:12:27.480 --> 00:12:29.879 had this discussion for about three hours the other night. 175 00:12:30.000 --> 00:12:33.080 So now being mean to the guy, I'm just saying, 176 00:12:33.559 --> 00:12:35.120 I think I know where that chet's going to go, 177 00:12:35.240 --> 00:12:39.960 But if nobody's going to come in, I'll just kind 178 00:12:39.960 --> 00:12:43.639 of like wait until people come and I'll talk about 179 00:12:44.320 --> 00:12:48.000 some of the notes from Pelicon. 180 00:12:48.039 --> 00:12:53.000 Go ahead, Yeah, Jay, So I've been watching your stuff 181 00:12:53.000 --> 00:12:53.480 for a while. 182 00:12:53.519 --> 00:12:57.279 It's really interesting, But I was just wondering if you 183 00:12:57.320 --> 00:12:58.480 could like point to. 184 00:13:00.559 --> 00:13:03.679 In the early church, any points where a father is 185 00:13:03.679 --> 00:13:07.159 saying that, you know, asking for the intercession of saints 186 00:13:07.200 --> 00:13:11.679 is Okay, it. 187 00:13:11.639 --> 00:13:17.440 Gets explicitly mentioned up by the time that you're dealing 188 00:13:17.480 --> 00:13:21.440 with Augustine or with the Cappadocian saints Cyril in the 189 00:13:21.440 --> 00:13:25.360 categorical lectures I think mentions it. I know Augustine mentions 190 00:13:25.360 --> 00:13:29.519 it explicitly in multiple places in his writings. So yeah, 191 00:13:29.559 --> 00:13:31.399 I mean you can. You should be able to pretty 192 00:13:31.399 --> 00:13:34.399 easily google like church Father's intercession of the Saints, like 193 00:13:34.440 --> 00:13:37.320 that's not really too controversial of a topic. 194 00:13:39.639 --> 00:13:42.480 Yeah, yeah, I mean I guess in my own research 195 00:13:42.559 --> 00:13:47.919 when I look into it, it seems kind of not 196 00:13:48.120 --> 00:13:50.039 like explicit, if that makes any sense. 197 00:13:50.399 --> 00:13:53.600 Well, it is explicit when it becomes a question, right, 198 00:13:53.679 --> 00:13:56.440 So by the time of Jerome, actually Jerome talks about 199 00:13:56.480 --> 00:14:00.840 it explicitly when he writes multiple letters against like Vigilius 200 00:14:01.559 --> 00:14:06.519 and the other guy who questions relics and saints, and 201 00:14:06.559 --> 00:14:08.720 he writes this really funny treatise just making fun of 202 00:14:08.720 --> 00:14:11.799 the guy, telling him that he's basically possessed and he 203 00:14:11.840 --> 00:14:13.799 actually just needs to go touch the relics to get 204 00:14:13.840 --> 00:14:17.159 the demon out of him. So, I mean, he makes 205 00:14:17.200 --> 00:14:20.639 other arguments, but so Jerome has treatises explicitly on it. 206 00:14:21.639 --> 00:14:24.399 Augustine mentions it. I'm pretty sure it's in the catechortical 207 00:14:24.480 --> 00:14:29.399 lectures of Saint Cyril. But if by explicit mention, we 208 00:14:29.440 --> 00:14:32.360 can't think of it like there has to in the 209 00:14:32.399 --> 00:14:37.320 first century be a theological defense of every doctrine, or 210 00:14:37.360 --> 00:14:39.320 I won't believe it because there's all kinds of things 211 00:14:39.320 --> 00:14:41.480 that we wouldn't believe, right, I mean, we don't have 212 00:14:41.559 --> 00:14:45.159 a first second century mention of n hypostatized, but this 213 00:14:45.279 --> 00:14:49.039 becomes a crucial chrystological statement by the time of Saint 214 00:14:49.039 --> 00:14:51.519 Cyril and afterwards. So it's just it's just kind of 215 00:14:51.559 --> 00:14:56.240 like a bogus criteria to argue unless I see it 216 00:14:56.360 --> 00:14:59.519 explicitly defended or stated, you know, in the post appisode 217 00:14:59.519 --> 00:15:01.919 period on will believe it. Well, that's ludicrous. Nobody actually 218 00:15:01.960 --> 00:15:05.519 follows that. Like there's all kinds of crystological dogmas that 219 00:15:05.840 --> 00:15:08.200 most people believe that you wouldn't believe because it's not 220 00:15:08.240 --> 00:15:09.919 stated in the first, second, third century. 221 00:15:13.000 --> 00:15:16.279 Okay, thanks, just coming for a Processant background. 222 00:15:16.080 --> 00:15:18.879 Right, understand, understand, I mean, but I mean there's no uh, 223 00:15:19.000 --> 00:15:20.720 I mean, I could just turn that around to Protestant 224 00:15:20.759 --> 00:15:22.639 and say, where is the Protestant canon in the first 225 00:15:22.679 --> 00:15:23.600 second third century. 226 00:15:25.480 --> 00:15:27.480 Yeah, of course, that's that's one thing that I've been 227 00:15:27.639 --> 00:15:32.039 sort of struggling with and you know, looking and listening 228 00:15:32.080 --> 00:15:35.039 to your talks, you know, and help me out understanding it. 229 00:15:35.559 --> 00:15:41.480 Word right, Thanks, no problem. Yeah, so we got you're 230 00:15:41.559 --> 00:15:45.720 our first caller in the pseudo live call in stream. Welcome. 231 00:15:45.879 --> 00:15:48.639 You were my first ever. I don't really like the 232 00:15:48.679 --> 00:15:50.960 idea of calling streams, but whatever, I thought it'd be 233 00:15:51.000 --> 00:15:51.639 fun to try it out. 234 00:15:52.399 --> 00:15:55.360 Long time listeners, Yeah, you're on the air. 235 00:15:57.519 --> 00:16:03.440 I've got the documents, folks, you're on the air all right. 236 00:16:05.159 --> 00:16:07.159 By the way, only an intercession of the saints, I 237 00:16:07.159 --> 00:16:09.559 mean that's even in scripture, right, It's even it was 238 00:16:09.600 --> 00:16:12.039 even in the Jewish tradition prior to the Church, right. 239 00:16:12.120 --> 00:16:13.679 So I'm not saying that's true, because I'm just saying 240 00:16:13.720 --> 00:16:17.919 there's early attestations to that. There's prayer, prayers for the dead, 241 00:16:17.919 --> 00:16:22.159 and Maccabee's there's the idea of the intercession of the saints. 242 00:16:22.840 --> 00:16:24.759 Just comes from the idea of the intercession of saints 243 00:16:24.759 --> 00:16:26.840 on earth. Read the Book of Amos where he intercedes, 244 00:16:26.879 --> 00:16:31.000 and read you know, when Abraham intercedes, he saves the city. Well, 245 00:16:31.039 --> 00:16:33.039 in the Book of the Apocalypse four and five. The 246 00:16:33.080 --> 00:16:36.360 saints aren't dead. They're in heaven interceding, so they continue 247 00:16:36.399 --> 00:16:40.600 the work of salvation with us as they're in heaven. 248 00:16:41.919 --> 00:16:42.320 Exactly. 249 00:16:42.360 --> 00:16:44.480 That's also in the Book of James. In the Book 250 00:16:44.519 --> 00:16:47.559 of James, at some point Saint James, because of the Lord, 251 00:16:47.559 --> 00:16:49.799 says that we have to pray for one another. And 252 00:16:49.840 --> 00:16:52.960 in other places we know that people, even after the 253 00:16:53.039 --> 00:16:55.879 physically dies, alive in Christ. For if you can pray 254 00:16:55.879 --> 00:16:59.000 for one another, you can still do it on one 255 00:16:59.159 --> 00:17:02.679 specifically sat person is dead. And Saint Jame's also mentions 256 00:17:02.799 --> 00:17:07.319 the fact that the prey of the Righteous are especially powerful. 257 00:17:07.440 --> 00:17:12.079 Yes, exactly, good prayer. So this is a scriptural there's 258 00:17:12.079 --> 00:17:13.279 a real spiritual. 259 00:17:12.880 --> 00:17:15.039 Basis for all of it, and we can see it 260 00:17:15.039 --> 00:17:17.960 being attested in the early history of the Church and 261 00:17:18.000 --> 00:17:19.240 even in the Old Covenant. 262 00:17:19.559 --> 00:17:20.680 There's a full continuity. 263 00:17:21.440 --> 00:17:25.359 Right. Gert for three dollars says, what do you think 264 00:17:25.359 --> 00:17:28.680 about lucid dreams? Uh, we don't really. I mean there 265 00:17:28.960 --> 00:17:30.799 are lucid dreams. I've had lucid dreams, but we don't 266 00:17:30.799 --> 00:17:33.240 really pay attention to dreams and visions and this kind 267 00:17:33.279 --> 00:17:35.240 of stuff, which is not say it can never be done. 268 00:17:35.240 --> 00:17:36.920 But you need to be under the guidance of a 269 00:17:36.960 --> 00:17:40.000 spiritual father to be kind of looking into that kind 270 00:17:40.000 --> 00:17:43.759 of stuff, because we are very prone to delusion, and 271 00:17:43.839 --> 00:17:47.359 so most of the Holy Fathers and the Elders and 272 00:17:47.440 --> 00:17:51.480 our tradition warns against following dreams and visions and omens 273 00:17:51.519 --> 00:17:54.240 and this kind of stuff because we're just so easily 274 00:17:55.119 --> 00:17:57.880 deceived by that stuff. Father Deacon, you would agree with that. 275 00:17:58.960 --> 00:18:06.880 Yeah, absolutely absolute. It's funny because in my department up 276 00:18:06.960 --> 00:18:11.759 in the office, you know, the Social Sciences building, and 277 00:18:11.960 --> 00:18:14.880 I was disgusting with one of the professors I think 278 00:18:14.920 --> 00:18:20.000 they were a psycho ecology professor, and they have this 279 00:18:20.279 --> 00:18:22.480 like reading group and they said, one of the things 280 00:18:22.480 --> 00:18:28.920 we do is we interpret dreams. And so this issue 281 00:18:29.000 --> 00:18:31.240 kind of came up from an Orthodox perspective. 282 00:18:31.839 --> 00:18:33.519 So you have these groups of people that. 283 00:18:33.559 --> 00:18:40.240 Will interpret dreams and trying to attached mean and so 284 00:18:40.400 --> 00:18:45.200 we Orthodox shy away from that just because you could 285 00:18:45.240 --> 00:18:48.359 think about all kinds of crazy stuff that the conclusions 286 00:18:48.359 --> 00:18:54.079 that you could come up from. 287 00:18:51.839 --> 00:18:57.640 That's not something that we particularly would suggest is safe 288 00:18:57.680 --> 00:18:57.920 to do. 289 00:18:58.519 --> 00:19:00.279 Let me ask you one go ahead. 290 00:19:01.079 --> 00:19:02.960 I was just going to say, also, when you know, 291 00:19:03.039 --> 00:19:05.440 when a woman talks about our dreams, you just want 292 00:19:05.480 --> 00:19:06.680 to shoot yourself in the head. 293 00:19:06.960 --> 00:19:09.640 So boring, So like, we don't really want to encourage. 294 00:19:09.279 --> 00:19:13.440 Men to do that either, Father Deacon, could you give 295 00:19:13.519 --> 00:19:14.880 us a brief because we have a lot of people, 296 00:19:14.920 --> 00:19:16.519 I think in our chat who might be new to 297 00:19:16.559 --> 00:19:20.400 these topics, just a brief explanation of maybe, in contrast 298 00:19:20.480 --> 00:19:23.880 to Protestantism or Roman Catholicism, what is the spiritual Father 299 00:19:23.960 --> 00:19:25.559 and why is that important? Orthodoxy? 300 00:19:27.039 --> 00:19:32.200 Yeah, So one thing that excuse me, that we worked 301 00:19:32.200 --> 00:19:38.160 about are keenly aware of in our practice and our theology. 302 00:19:37.680 --> 00:19:45.279 Is what we call spiritual delusion. Priest and all of 303 00:19:45.359 --> 00:19:45.759 us have it. 304 00:19:47.119 --> 00:19:52.720 And what I think so dangerous about spiritual delusion is 305 00:19:52.759 --> 00:19:58.079 that you don't know you have it, Whereas a temptation, 306 00:19:58.240 --> 00:20:02.680 it's very easy to IDENTI that the fact that you 307 00:20:02.799 --> 00:20:08.559 could actually be being manipulated by demons under the guise 308 00:20:08.640 --> 00:20:15.680 of something holy and spiritual impure is quite dangerous. Now, 309 00:20:16.559 --> 00:20:22.720 as far as I know, Protestants don't even have a concept. 310 00:20:22.319 --> 00:20:24.440 Of having spiritual delusion. 311 00:20:24.480 --> 00:20:27.599 They may talk about temptations and correct me if I'm wrong. 312 00:20:28.000 --> 00:20:30.440 In my study of Roman Catholicism, I don't think it's 313 00:20:30.480 --> 00:20:37.240 even addressed, is a concept of something existing. And I 314 00:20:37.319 --> 00:20:42.200 think it's really important that not only do Protestants not 315 00:20:42.319 --> 00:20:47.079 have a concept of being spiritually deluded, but have no 316 00:20:47.319 --> 00:20:51.240 mechanism on how to cure that and treat them. And 317 00:20:51.359 --> 00:20:54.799 I would say this is something that's so important in Orthodoxy. 318 00:20:56.960 --> 00:21:01.200 Why we have a spiritual Father is that if we. 319 00:21:01.119 --> 00:21:05.440 All assume I'm constantly being manipulated by demons, not only 320 00:21:05.480 --> 00:21:10.920 in temptations, but being spiritually deluded and thinking that oh, 321 00:21:11.359 --> 00:21:16.599 this is from God, or this is something holy that 322 00:21:16.680 --> 00:21:20.880 I should be doing, maybe I should maybe God's telling 323 00:21:20.920 --> 00:21:24.920 me to interpret people's dreams or something like that. How 324 00:21:24.960 --> 00:21:30.200 do you know that you're not deluded? Well, you don't 325 00:21:30.279 --> 00:21:33.920 if you are the problem. And so this is what's 326 00:21:33.920 --> 00:21:37.920 so important about having a spiritual Father is there's somebody 327 00:21:38.039 --> 00:21:44.000 who's experienced and has the credential spiritually speaking, that can 328 00:21:44.440 --> 00:21:48.640 have proper discernment and the way that spiritual delusion and 329 00:21:48.680 --> 00:21:54.960 the whole spiritual progress as well is acquired through obedience 330 00:21:55.000 --> 00:21:58.119 and repentance With an Orthodoxy, so we're really going to 331 00:21:58.119 --> 00:22:03.960 stress that means we don't rely on our own abilities. 332 00:22:04.839 --> 00:22:09.279 In fact, we're going to admit we're incapable of healing 333 00:22:09.319 --> 00:22:12.079 ourselves and getting ourselves out. 334 00:22:11.839 --> 00:22:14.319 Of the you know, the muck. 335 00:22:15.200 --> 00:22:19.279 And so what we turn to is an advanced physician 336 00:22:19.319 --> 00:22:23.200 of souls who's experienced, and. 337 00:22:23.240 --> 00:22:25.240 We make ourselves obedience. 338 00:22:25.279 --> 00:22:29.160 So, as we say in Orthodoxy, there is no spiritual problem. 339 00:22:29.200 --> 00:22:30.079 You can read all. 340 00:22:29.960 --> 00:22:33.319 The theology books that you want, You can go to 341 00:22:33.359 --> 00:22:38.480 school and get all the degrees and never make any 342 00:22:38.519 --> 00:22:42.599 spiritual progress. So the whole point of Orthodoxy is to 343 00:22:42.799 --> 00:22:46.480 make spiritual progress to heal ourselves. 344 00:22:45.880 --> 00:22:50.039 And you need a physician. And so you make. 345 00:22:49.920 --> 00:22:54.079 Yourself obedient, even as hard as it may be that 346 00:22:54.279 --> 00:22:56.440 your spiritual father tells you something you're like, I don't 347 00:22:56.440 --> 00:22:59.680 agree with that. Part of the obedience is I'm no 348 00:22:59.759 --> 00:23:02.160 longer going to trust in my own abilities, and I'm 349 00:23:02.200 --> 00:23:05.079 going to listen to the spiritual Father. And because the 350 00:23:05.119 --> 00:23:10.440 spiritual Father, the priest is a sacrament, there is grace bestowed. 351 00:23:10.559 --> 00:23:14.759 So even in the faults of individual men is priests, 352 00:23:15.200 --> 00:23:20.400 the grace of God still comes through that sacrament and 353 00:23:20.480 --> 00:23:21.680 that office. 354 00:23:21.880 --> 00:23:22.319 And so. 355 00:23:24.359 --> 00:23:29.960 When you're obedient to your spiritual Father, you're blessed. You're 356 00:23:30.000 --> 00:23:34.319 blessed by God, and you begin to again, a spiritual 357 00:23:34.359 --> 00:23:38.599 father is somebody that's like a counselor and a doctor 358 00:23:38.640 --> 00:23:43.519 that knows you, knows your spiritual medical history. And this 359 00:23:43.599 --> 00:23:45.880 is why what you don't want to do is being 360 00:23:46.000 --> 00:23:50.240 jumping around from different priests and making confessions, and you 361 00:23:50.440 --> 00:23:55.519 need one spiritual doctor who is taking care. 362 00:23:55.400 --> 00:23:59.240 Of you and can help you in your own repentance. 363 00:23:59.839 --> 00:24:03.640 So I'd say that's something unique about Orthodox that not 364 00:24:03.759 --> 00:24:07.240 only do we have the concept that we're all spiritually diluted, 365 00:24:07.519 --> 00:24:11.319 we have the mechanism in place in the structure of 366 00:24:11.319 --> 00:24:13.480 the church over the last two thousand years for dealing 367 00:24:13.559 --> 00:24:16.359 with that. So that's not something a lot of people 368 00:24:16.359 --> 00:24:16.839 talk about. 369 00:24:16.839 --> 00:24:18.519 But I'm Jay, I'm glad you brought that up. 370 00:24:19.559 --> 00:24:22.440 Yeah, well, we got some questions about that because people 371 00:24:22.480 --> 00:24:25.039 thought that I was saying that you can't talk about 372 00:24:25.039 --> 00:24:27.200 a dream. No, what I said was that it's in 373 00:24:27.240 --> 00:24:31.200 the Orthodox tradition, you have a guide, right, Paul talks 374 00:24:31.200 --> 00:24:34.720 about being Timothy's spiritual father, So you have a guide 375 00:24:34.720 --> 00:24:38.240 that you know helps you sort of discern who's actually 376 00:24:38.279 --> 00:24:42.599 been down the road already. That's the point here. It's 377 00:24:42.640 --> 00:24:44.519 not that you can't talk about these things. In fact, 378 00:24:44.519 --> 00:24:47.200 you should talk about these things with your spiritual father. Now, 379 00:24:47.240 --> 00:24:50.839 it is correct that a lot of times it's hard 380 00:24:50.880 --> 00:24:55.359 to find a spiritual father, especially in America, so that's difficult. 381 00:24:55.799 --> 00:24:58.200 Father Deacon. If you're not talking, can you mute because 382 00:24:58.200 --> 00:25:00.759 there's kind of like a staticky f back and whatnot. 383 00:25:00.759 --> 00:25:03.400 That's okay, but you're welcome to definitely talk. But thank 384 00:25:03.440 --> 00:25:06.279 you for that. So, by the way, and the guys 385 00:25:06.319 --> 00:25:08.200 in the chat, I'm not saying you can't talk about that, 386 00:25:08.240 --> 00:25:11.559 but and there's Lewis and Kai and Grido. There's a 387 00:25:11.559 --> 00:25:15.359 guy who's a Roman Catholic named Tony g He says 388 00:25:15.400 --> 00:25:22.000 he's trying to get in the discord. Oh okay, Tony, 389 00:25:22.039 --> 00:25:26.440 are you there? And for those yeah, hold on for 390 00:25:26.519 --> 00:25:30.440 the hold on. If you're not talking, please mute. Guys 391 00:25:30.920 --> 00:25:35.039 in the YouTube chat, this is discord, all right. It's 392 00:25:35.119 --> 00:25:37.079 not a guest on the show. If you want to 393 00:25:37.119 --> 00:25:41.079 come into the discord and chat, you're welcome to. As 394 00:25:41.119 --> 00:25:43.759 of now, it's ghetto set up, so I don't have 395 00:25:43.799 --> 00:25:45.599 a better way to do it, so there we go 396 00:25:45.599 --> 00:25:46.519 go ahead. Guy, what's up? 397 00:25:46.519 --> 00:25:46.680 Bro? 398 00:25:47.920 --> 00:25:49.960 Hey Jay, I'm a Roman Catholic bit of a layman. 399 00:25:50.039 --> 00:25:53.039 I just had a quick question. You often say a 400 00:25:53.079 --> 00:25:55.680 movie portray real life. I appreciate the work you do 401 00:25:55.720 --> 00:25:57.640 as far as the esoteric work. I just wanted to 402 00:25:57.680 --> 00:26:01.200 know the Orthodoxy position on spiritual battle as far as 403 00:26:01.200 --> 00:26:04.680 demonic possessions and you know, demonic things that are in 404 00:26:04.759 --> 00:26:07.680 living people's houses, because you know, we always see Roman Catholic. 405 00:26:07.440 --> 00:26:08.519 Priests the forefront. 406 00:26:08.640 --> 00:26:11.359 As far as handling this battle, I just wanted to 407 00:26:11.359 --> 00:26:13.200 know the Orthodoxy position on debt. 408 00:26:13.400 --> 00:26:24.119 Yeah, if you're not talking pretty mute, yeah, yeah. 409 00:26:24.319 --> 00:26:27.359 Of course Orthodox Orthodoxy does house blessings. The priests do 410 00:26:27.400 --> 00:26:29.039 this like once a year they go around and do 411 00:26:29.079 --> 00:26:31.599 house blessing, So there's there's no difference between the Orthodox 412 00:26:31.640 --> 00:26:36.640 and Catholic view of that kind of stuff of sacramental theology, 413 00:26:36.720 --> 00:26:40.200 blessing the house, blessing water, blessing rivers. I mean, this 414 00:26:40.279 --> 00:26:43.079 is very common in the Orthodox Church. So of course 415 00:26:43.079 --> 00:26:45.319 we believe in the reality of spiritual warfare. I mean 416 00:26:45.359 --> 00:26:50.079 all of the spiritual ascetic writing is about battling the demons. 417 00:26:50.119 --> 00:26:56.440 If you read Larsay's trilogy, I mean Larchais wrote this 418 00:26:56.559 --> 00:27:00.440 gigantic trilogy Therapy of Spiritual Illness, and it's all about 419 00:27:00.880 --> 00:27:04.319 how all of the vices, you could say, are kind 420 00:27:04.359 --> 00:27:07.200 of like battling demons. This is all just from the 421 00:27:07.240 --> 00:27:11.640 Father's philocalia. So I would argue that really Orthodoxy is 422 00:27:11.720 --> 00:27:13.960 who continues this tradition. I mean, we have a lot 423 00:27:14.000 --> 00:27:19.400 of monastics in Orthodoxy, Monasticism and ro Catholicism is basically vanishing. 424 00:27:19.599 --> 00:27:23.480 So I would say, definitely check out somebody like a father, 425 00:27:23.759 --> 00:27:27.960 but not Father, but Jean Claude Larcher therapy of spiritual illnesses, 426 00:27:28.000 --> 00:27:29.200 which would answer your question. 427 00:27:31.839 --> 00:27:33.960 I definitely appreciate the comments. 428 00:27:34.319 --> 00:27:34.519 Yep. 429 00:27:36.480 --> 00:27:40.599 Also, Father Georgia Korro is really good at He's an 430 00:27:40.680 --> 00:27:48.880 Orthodox priest that has a lot of experience with possessions 431 00:27:48.920 --> 00:27:50.119 and exorcisms. 432 00:27:50.359 --> 00:27:52.160 Oh yeah, that's who you mentioned in the past. We 433 00:27:52.200 --> 00:27:57.200 need to do it interview with him, Yes, exactly, Ulson says, 434 00:27:57.240 --> 00:28:01.839 for seven dollars, here's my imp to roasting you. I'm 435 00:28:01.920 --> 00:28:04.480 late to the game. People won't debate you because you're 436 00:28:04.519 --> 00:28:08.440 doing brain keto royds. No, sorry, bro, that's that's not 437 00:28:08.480 --> 00:28:10.799 a good joke. It would be fair to say that 438 00:28:10.880 --> 00:28:13.680 ninety percent of your audience is happy that you did 439 00:28:13.720 --> 00:28:17.799 not become I can't read the rest of that. Sorry, 440 00:28:17.599 --> 00:28:19.839 he remember if you if you send me a super 441 00:28:19.880 --> 00:28:22.720 chat on stream labs, I can only see one long sentence. 442 00:28:22.759 --> 00:28:25.759 I can't see a gigantic paragraph. But even though I 443 00:28:25.759 --> 00:28:28.640 appreciate the seven dollars, a Ulson, that joke was kind 444 00:28:28.640 --> 00:28:32.440 of lame. Bag. I tell for ten dollars, says, what 445 00:28:32.480 --> 00:28:35.039 do you think about the Finnish Orthodox Church. I don't 446 00:28:35.039 --> 00:28:37.279 have any knowledge of the Finnish Orthodox Church, Father deacon, 447 00:28:37.319 --> 00:28:38.319 do you hadn't know anything about this. 448 00:28:41.839 --> 00:28:44.720 I think they're pretty good. I think they're technically under 449 00:28:44.839 --> 00:28:48.440 the EP. But as far as I've heard of it, 450 00:28:48.519 --> 00:28:50.079 I haven't heard any problems. 451 00:28:49.720 --> 00:28:53.640 With he says, with my finished roots, I would feel 452 00:28:53.680 --> 00:28:56.640 like it's more natural to join that, But people from 453 00:28:56.640 --> 00:29:00.440 the Russian Church tend to speak against it. I don't know. 454 00:29:00.559 --> 00:29:02.079 I don't know the drama. 455 00:29:02.279 --> 00:29:06.680 That's because there's a you gotta know the history between 456 00:29:07.200 --> 00:29:10.279 Finland and Russia, right. 457 00:29:10.319 --> 00:29:13.599 I don't know what is what is the isue, so. 458 00:29:15.119 --> 00:29:17.960 You know, acquiring lands and wars and stuff like that. 459 00:29:18.119 --> 00:29:24.079 So there there's some sensitivity with that. That's not a 460 00:29:24.079 --> 00:29:30.480 theological issue. That's a cultural, a cultural issue. I don't 461 00:29:31.000 --> 00:29:36.160 personally I imagine this person's asking in Finland because I'm 462 00:29:36.160 --> 00:29:38.920 trying to think, like what other Finnish. 463 00:29:38.720 --> 00:29:41.279 Orthodox churches there are outside of Finland. 464 00:29:41.319 --> 00:29:43.119 I mean it sounds like that's what he means. 465 00:29:43.920 --> 00:29:47.200 Yeah, yeah, I was just gonna say, I'm ethnically finish, 466 00:29:47.599 --> 00:29:52.039 and our greatest hero is our greatest hero because he 467 00:29:52.160 --> 00:29:54.839 killed like a lot of Russians. 468 00:29:54.960 --> 00:29:55.440 Like a lot. 469 00:29:59.079 --> 00:30:02.079 Yeah you know, do you know what I'm talking about? Yeah, so, 470 00:30:02.279 --> 00:30:03.799 like a lot of Russia. 471 00:30:03.839 --> 00:30:05.799 Like he killed a lot of Russian so and that 472 00:30:05.839 --> 00:30:07.079 guy's out national hero. 473 00:30:07.359 --> 00:30:12.039 So like Russian Finland relations are still sketchy to this day. 474 00:30:12.359 --> 00:30:14.680 So basically, you're defending du that is what you're saying. 475 00:30:14.680 --> 00:30:15.880 You're here to defend. 476 00:30:16.960 --> 00:30:20.799 Yes, I am a douan Is, but I get we must. 477 00:30:21.079 --> 00:30:23.680 We must train the American the right wing to take 478 00:30:23.799 --> 00:30:25.079 down America. 479 00:30:25.960 --> 00:30:27.200 The Dougan Bitcoin. 480 00:30:27.400 --> 00:30:30.119 I get that, and I share before Jed Dire and 481 00:30:30.200 --> 00:30:31.119 kJ be on Twitter. 482 00:30:33.119 --> 00:30:33.359 Uh. 483 00:30:33.400 --> 00:30:40.640 Anyway, is there anybody in the discord that wants to 484 00:30:40.680 --> 00:30:41.160 speak up? 485 00:30:42.440 --> 00:30:43.440 Yeah? I had another question? 486 00:30:43.480 --> 00:30:43.599 Is that? 487 00:30:43.720 --> 00:30:44.000 Okay? 488 00:30:44.200 --> 00:30:44.400 Sure? 489 00:30:46.240 --> 00:30:47.400 A bit of a lament question. 490 00:30:48.160 --> 00:30:51.079 During this gism when the church is separated, I wanted 491 00:30:51.119 --> 00:30:54.119 to know how it worked when it came to going 492 00:30:54.119 --> 00:30:57.200 to battle together against you know, Islam and the Crusades. 493 00:30:57.240 --> 00:30:59.119 How did all that come together? Did they you know, 494 00:30:59.200 --> 00:31:00.599 get together and it was. 495 00:31:00.559 --> 00:31:02.759 Okay for that time when they just separated, you know, 496 00:31:02.920 --> 00:31:04.519 just a little bit of clarity on that situation. 497 00:31:05.279 --> 00:31:08.000 No, I mean the Byzantium was sacked. What do you mean? 498 00:31:13.119 --> 00:31:15.640 I was wondering because the schism was in ten fifty. 499 00:31:15.359 --> 00:31:24.160 Four correct officially, Yeah. 500 00:31:21.759 --> 00:31:24.519 And the Crusade were a little bit after that, correct. 501 00:31:25.039 --> 00:31:27.359 Yeah, there were there were at camps. 502 00:31:27.880 --> 00:31:30.880 Yeah, there were several attempts to kind of unite, and 503 00:31:32.240 --> 00:31:36.799 that offered, uh, what we thought would be kind of 504 00:31:36.799 --> 00:31:43.599 a promising lead to possibly be united in something, and 505 00:31:43.640 --> 00:31:48.160 it kind of backfired. As Jade pointed out, Byzantium was 506 00:31:48.240 --> 00:31:52.119 under attack, and uh, we thought that we could unite 507 00:31:52.599 --> 00:31:56.119 and call for the help of the Latins and it 508 00:31:56.160 --> 00:31:57.000 really didn't. 509 00:31:56.759 --> 00:31:57.960 Work out well. 510 00:31:58.160 --> 00:32:01.839 No, the Latins eventually sack the Latin Bysanthium eventually. 511 00:32:04.319 --> 00:32:06.359 Okay, man, you guys, I appreciates the answer. 512 00:32:06.440 --> 00:32:11.839 Man, Yeah, I'm wrong, dude, Hey Jay, yes, sir. 513 00:32:14.079 --> 00:32:16.720 I only have a minute, but I did wanna I 514 00:32:16.759 --> 00:32:19.680 guess ask you already know me as far as we 515 00:32:19.839 --> 00:32:22.279 talked for a really long time yesterday or the day before. 516 00:32:24.839 --> 00:32:27.160 If you remember, you probably talked to a million people. 517 00:32:27.480 --> 00:32:31.759 But anyway, I guess my question is okay, good. 518 00:32:36.200 --> 00:32:37.000 Your question as well. 519 00:32:39.359 --> 00:32:40.359 Craized Latin. 520 00:32:41.319 --> 00:32:47.599 I guess the clitice learned about extraordinary form, visit team, 521 00:32:47.799 --> 00:32:49.640 all that kind of stuff, as well as the Orthodox 522 00:32:50.160 --> 00:33:00.400 UH spent about tens visiting Eastern parish Orthodox parishes to 523 00:33:00.480 --> 00:33:01.000 the priests. 524 00:33:01.640 --> 00:33:03.799 Yeah, I remember the story. You don't have to. I'm 525 00:33:03.839 --> 00:33:09.920 not trying to be mean, but I remember. You're cutting out. 526 00:33:09.960 --> 00:33:10.079 Bro. 527 00:33:13.160 --> 00:33:15.839 If you want to leave the discord and then pop 528 00:33:15.960 --> 00:33:19.160 back in, it usually resets the setting. So maybe you 529 00:33:19.200 --> 00:33:21.319 won't be cutting out, but you're cutting out right now. 530 00:33:23.799 --> 00:33:28.119 Kristen diving into the possibility that she might be in 531 00:33:28.160 --> 00:33:28.480 the wrong. 532 00:33:28.880 --> 00:33:29.000 Bro. 533 00:33:29.960 --> 00:33:32.119 But it Hey, I didn't hear any of that. You 534 00:33:32.240 --> 00:33:36.480 cut out for all that, damn, so so exit and 535 00:33:36.640 --> 00:33:37.039 come back. 536 00:33:38.319 --> 00:33:42.160 All right, all right? But oh the joys discord. 537 00:33:44.039 --> 00:33:46.640 If people want to ask a question and you don't 538 00:33:46.640 --> 00:33:48.839 want to hope on stream, just go. If you're in 539 00:33:48.880 --> 00:33:52.200 the discord, go to voice text General. I tagged everyone there. 540 00:33:52.480 --> 00:33:54.559 You can ask questions and I'll see them. 541 00:33:54.599 --> 00:33:54.960 To Jay. 542 00:33:56.160 --> 00:33:59.720 This is the first ghetto pale attempt at a call 543 00:33:59.839 --> 00:34:02.160 in show. I don't even like the idea of Collin shows, 544 00:34:02.200 --> 00:34:06.119 but we were trying to get okay, well, well we 545 00:34:06.200 --> 00:34:07.519 were trying to get it. We were trying to get 546 00:34:07.640 --> 00:34:10.000 Is to come debate, and he wouldn't do it. 547 00:34:10.239 --> 00:34:15.000 But we got a question, what's. 548 00:34:14.840 --> 00:34:19.079 The explanation of Noah's sons and grandsons having different features 549 00:34:19.199 --> 00:34:20.159 and skin color? 550 00:34:24.639 --> 00:34:28.159 Why does it need an explanation? What I mean, people 551 00:34:28.559 --> 00:34:33.639 go into different climates and there's a symbiotic relationship between 552 00:34:33.960 --> 00:34:37.960 you know, people's physiognomy and their environments. I mean, there's 553 00:34:38.000 --> 00:34:41.639 nothing wrong with adaptation. And you know, yeah, people go 554 00:34:41.760 --> 00:34:45.480 into southerly climates, they're gonna you know, gradually developed, you know, 555 00:34:46.000 --> 00:34:50.119 darker scin or whatever. I don't see why that's even controversial. 556 00:34:51.880 --> 00:34:52.960 Okay, we got another one. 557 00:34:53.440 --> 00:34:55.320 What would you say to people who tell you the 558 00:34:55.400 --> 00:34:59.760 Bible is impossible because of dinosaurs skeletons existing. 559 00:35:01.400 --> 00:35:04.400 Well, there's two possible answers. I think that anything that 560 00:35:04.519 --> 00:35:09.880 modern science proposes that is bound up with Darwinian naturalism 561 00:35:10.000 --> 00:35:13.679 can be legitimately doubted, and we have a basis to 562 00:35:13.719 --> 00:35:16.920 be skeptical of. So there's a lot of questions about quote, 563 00:35:17.000 --> 00:35:20.519 dinosaur skeletons to begin with. But even if they are real, 564 00:35:21.440 --> 00:35:23.800 the Book of Job speaks of all kinds of things 565 00:35:23.840 --> 00:35:26.599 that could absolutely be a dinosaurs. So there's nothing inherently 566 00:35:26.800 --> 00:35:32.119 contradicting about either position is conceivably defensible. 567 00:35:33.320 --> 00:35:36.199 Yeah, Behemos is a good example of what could possibly 568 00:35:36.280 --> 00:35:37.039 be a dinosaur. 569 00:35:37.719 --> 00:35:41.320 Saying, okay, another one, do you think. 570 00:35:41.199 --> 00:35:44.000 That the Orthodox and Catholic Church could unite in some 571 00:35:44.199 --> 00:35:47.440 way in the future. Personally, I couldn't see it. I'm 572 00:35:47.480 --> 00:35:49.559 not sure what your take is, Jay, So I just 573 00:35:49.639 --> 00:35:51.280 wanted to ask and know your side. 574 00:35:51.800 --> 00:35:54.840 No, I mean, there's our like if you look at 575 00:35:54.920 --> 00:35:58.000 Metropolitan surfim Prius, he wrote a long letter to Francis. 576 00:35:58.440 --> 00:36:02.320 He's a famous Greek Conservative bishop. He wrote a long 577 00:36:02.440 --> 00:36:06.800 letter saying the thirty four or five elements that the 578 00:36:06.880 --> 00:36:09.519 two churches could not unite over. That would have to change. 579 00:36:09.760 --> 00:36:13.800 So that's the classical Orthodox position. It doesn't matter what 580 00:36:13.920 --> 00:36:16.639 modern and humanists say. You have to adhere to the 581 00:36:16.760 --> 00:36:20.000 traditional arguments that we've always made on the basis of 582 00:36:20.039 --> 00:36:22.920 the canons and the councils as to what the elements 583 00:36:23.039 --> 00:36:26.199 of change and innovation in Rome are. Right in the 584 00:36:26.239 --> 00:36:28.760 Middle Ages, in the East. They were called Byzantine lists, 585 00:36:29.280 --> 00:36:31.119 and these are the lists of the problems that we 586 00:36:31.199 --> 00:36:35.800 have with Rome, things like forbidding pedro communion, forbidding married priests. 587 00:36:36.199 --> 00:36:38.000 Those are just one of the many, right, there's a 588 00:36:38.039 --> 00:36:41.280 whole bunch of other ones, like philioque and that kind 589 00:36:41.280 --> 00:36:44.559 of stuff. Obviously comes first. Papacy. Those are the main issues, 590 00:36:44.599 --> 00:36:45.920 but there's a bunch of other issues too. 591 00:36:47.880 --> 00:36:50.639 Okay, now the question these questions are rolling in, so 592 00:36:50.840 --> 00:36:54.400 thanks to everyone in the discord, can you discuss the 593 00:36:54.519 --> 00:36:59.639 difference in Protestant Christus Victor versus Orthodox attirement? 594 00:37:02.679 --> 00:37:06.880 Well, Christus Victor is an attempt to borrow elements of 595 00:37:07.079 --> 00:37:12.239 Patristic ideas. So there's nothing inherently anti Orthodox about some 596 00:37:12.360 --> 00:37:16.760 of the ideas of Christa's Victor. Because the Lutheran theologian 597 00:37:16.840 --> 00:37:18.400 that I think it was a Lutheran guy who went 598 00:37:18.519 --> 00:37:21.800 back and tried to reconstruct different theories of atonement from 599 00:37:21.840 --> 00:37:25.039 the Patristic period. He's just borrowing from different church fathers 600 00:37:25.079 --> 00:37:27.800 and different ideas. So I would actually argue that the 601 00:37:29.119 --> 00:37:33.000 Orthodox position has the correct elements of all the positions, right, 602 00:37:33.159 --> 00:37:35.440 So all of the positions have elements. Is there a 603 00:37:35.519 --> 00:37:39.440 penal substitutionary aspect to it. Yes, Is there a Christ's 604 00:37:39.519 --> 00:37:40.440 victor aspect to it? 605 00:37:40.559 --> 00:37:40.760 Yes? 606 00:37:41.559 --> 00:37:44.239 Just read book three of John Damascus and he explains 607 00:37:44.320 --> 00:37:47.280 perfectly in line with all of the Eastern fathers before 608 00:37:47.360 --> 00:37:49.519 him and many of the early Latin fathers as to 609 00:37:49.639 --> 00:37:51.800 what the orthodox doctrine of the death of Christ and 610 00:37:51.840 --> 00:37:54.719 the Atonement is. The last part of book three is 611 00:37:54.800 --> 00:38:01.239 the perfect excellent harmony with Christology doctrine. And the Protestants, 612 00:38:01.400 --> 00:38:05.079 especially Calvinists, end up as historians with their doctrine. It's 613 00:38:05.119 --> 00:38:09.239 that easy, so we don't have to go into Lutheran speculations. 614 00:38:09.320 --> 00:38:12.440 And as if we don't know what the doctrine of 615 00:38:12.440 --> 00:38:14.440 the atonement and the death of Christ and the descent 616 00:38:14.559 --> 00:38:18.440 into Hades is, we do know. Like it's all just 617 00:38:18.559 --> 00:38:21.119 academic theories up in the air, not for us. No, 618 00:38:21.920 --> 00:38:25.559 the herowing of Hades is a dogma, it's nowhere in Protestantism. 619 00:38:29.079 --> 00:38:32.880 We have another one, curious on your views on the 620 00:38:33.039 --> 00:38:34.000 Church of the East. 621 00:38:35.039 --> 00:38:39.199 Yeah, we don't accept that as anymore than any of 622 00:38:39.239 --> 00:38:42.079 the other Churches of the East, the so called Orientals. 623 00:38:42.119 --> 00:38:44.519 They're just as much in schism as the others. 624 00:38:47.079 --> 00:38:51.239 Okay, short answer love that in what sense would an 625 00:38:51.400 --> 00:38:55.000 Orthodox say that Pope Leo was the archbishop of. 626 00:38:55.119 --> 00:38:58.119 All the churches in the same way that that same 627 00:38:58.159 --> 00:39:01.320 phraseology is used of Con Sentinople. I mean, these kinds 628 00:39:01.360 --> 00:39:04.639 of glowing terms and phrases are used often. Uh. The 629 00:39:04.719 --> 00:39:07.679 Alexandrian patriarch it is sometimes referred to as the head 630 00:39:07.719 --> 00:39:10.599 of churches, the head of all churches Antioch and Basil's 631 00:39:10.679 --> 00:39:14.280 letters as he uses that same phraseology. It's that there's 632 00:39:14.400 --> 00:39:18.559 a common usage of florid. Uh, what's the term that 633 00:39:20.000 --> 00:39:22.440 there's a there's a term for like the glowing phrase 634 00:39:22.599 --> 00:39:26.559 phraseology that's used at times. It doesn't always necessarily mean 635 00:39:27.000 --> 00:39:31.559 the Vatican One doctrine of papal infallibility. So if you look, 636 00:39:31.639 --> 00:39:33.480 if you look at the way Canon, look at the 637 00:39:33.519 --> 00:39:37.960 what can you mute if you look at the way 638 00:39:38.000 --> 00:39:41.719 Canon twenty eight of Chalcedon speaks of the ecumenical patriarch. 639 00:39:41.800 --> 00:39:48.519 It it's ecumenical patriarchate, universal patriarch. It's just a term. 640 00:39:48.840 --> 00:39:54.079 There's we don't necessarily read into that universal dogmas or 641 00:39:54.199 --> 00:39:56.559 in terms of Vatican One view is all we have 642 00:39:56.679 --> 00:39:58.840 to do there. Ifew the Vatican One view is just 643 00:39:58.960 --> 00:40:02.320 show that it's not present in the Seven Councils. And 644 00:40:02.440 --> 00:40:04.760 that's very easy to do. If that's the case, the 645 00:40:04.880 --> 00:40:08.639 Vatican One refutes itself because Vatican One says that its 646 00:40:08.719 --> 00:40:09.760 view was always true. 647 00:40:12.360 --> 00:40:15.400 Okay, we got another one. How do we get people 648 00:40:15.559 --> 00:40:17.960 over the quote sky daddy. 649 00:40:17.880 --> 00:40:22.440 Argument and the quote if God good, why bad things happened? 650 00:40:22.719 --> 00:40:24.639 Mind? How do we get people over that? 651 00:40:24.880 --> 00:40:26.840 The easiest way to go about that is just to 652 00:40:27.039 --> 00:40:31.119 point out that to do basic pres up first of all, 653 00:40:31.599 --> 00:40:34.480 like we're not calling God a sky daddy, as if 654 00:40:35.199 --> 00:40:38.079 there's a one to one correspondence between the earthly notion 655 00:40:38.239 --> 00:40:42.280 of father and a heavenly literal father. Those are what's 656 00:40:42.280 --> 00:40:45.480 called analogia, right, There are analogies between human fathers and God. 657 00:40:45.519 --> 00:40:48.119 The Father doesn't mean that God is identically literally a 658 00:40:48.239 --> 00:40:50.559 quote guy with a long beard and a dad. He's 659 00:40:50.559 --> 00:40:53.679 spoken of as like a father, but he's also spoken 660 00:40:53.719 --> 00:40:58.480 of as like many other things. Mute. Can you mute? 661 00:41:00.920 --> 00:41:06.559 Just boot that guy if he's so so? Uh so, 662 00:41:06.760 --> 00:41:10.079 The sky daddy argument is based on a misunderstanding of 663 00:41:10.199 --> 00:41:13.280 what divine names are divine terms. So if you read 664 00:41:13.320 --> 00:41:17.039 Dionysius in the Divine Names he will go into detail 665 00:41:17.159 --> 00:41:19.960 explaining how we predicated God in what sense we use 666 00:41:20.000 --> 00:41:26.159 these words in terms, and then ironically, you know, just 667 00:41:26.599 --> 00:41:27.199 boot that guy. 668 00:41:27.760 --> 00:41:27.880 Uh. 669 00:41:28.840 --> 00:41:32.480 Ironically, atheists even do the same thing. They will speak 670 00:41:32.559 --> 00:41:35.760 of nature like it's a mother, like it's an artificer, 671 00:41:35.880 --> 00:41:39.360 like it's a designer, like it's a personal cognizant agent 672 00:41:39.559 --> 00:41:42.559 able to create and make things, when it's an impersonal 673 00:41:42.880 --> 00:41:45.440 chaotic force. So they will do that. They will do 674 00:41:45.559 --> 00:41:53.039 the exact all right, booting that guy, just doing that, understand. 675 00:41:54.400 --> 00:41:55.239 Yeah, I can see. 676 00:41:55.599 --> 00:42:00.239 I'll keep my eyes by the way, even better, look 677 00:42:00.280 --> 00:42:02.079 at the personification of science. 678 00:42:02.719 --> 00:42:06.119 Yes, we got almost three hundred people, by the way, 679 00:42:06.199 --> 00:42:08.719 welcome everybody, Thank your father digging. Go ahead and finish that. 680 00:42:08.719 --> 00:42:11.719 I thought, if you want to, well, I mean. 681 00:42:12.280 --> 00:42:16.280 If you notice, let's consult the oracle science. Science says, 682 00:42:16.440 --> 00:42:17.159 it tells. 683 00:42:17.000 --> 00:42:19.039 Us, oh, yes, exactly right. 684 00:42:19.599 --> 00:42:23.719 It's perfied form of deity that you go to the 685 00:42:23.760 --> 00:42:26.559 oracle and givinize. 686 00:42:26.079 --> 00:42:31.400 Your Yes, the science gods have spoken that COVID you know, 687 00:42:31.559 --> 00:42:37.760 doesn't affect riots, right, but it does affect anything else exactly. So, 688 00:42:38.039 --> 00:42:40.360 so sky daddy God, I would just do a basic 689 00:42:40.480 --> 00:42:42.679 prese up and say that this, First of all, it's 690 00:42:42.719 --> 00:42:45.400 not accurate. You guys did the exact same thing with 691 00:42:45.440 --> 00:42:47.800 personification of nature, and then you turn around and act 692 00:42:47.960 --> 00:42:51.960 like nature has no qualities like this, there's no actual 693 00:42:52.079 --> 00:42:54.800 design actually in nature, as they all argue, But then 694 00:42:54.800 --> 00:42:56.519 they turn around and talk like there is te loos 695 00:42:56.559 --> 00:42:59.360 in nature. Then I would turn around and say that 696 00:43:00.679 --> 00:43:02.960 what was the next one? Oh, morals, And I would 697 00:43:02.960 --> 00:43:06.159 just simply say that you need something like Christianity to 698 00:43:06.199 --> 00:43:10.159 provide a system for a basis for objective ethics. I'm 699 00:43:10.199 --> 00:43:12.800 not saying that there's objective ethics just because I say 700 00:43:12.920 --> 00:43:15.480 Christianity is true. I'm saying that the system of Christian 701 00:43:15.599 --> 00:43:19.519 theology or metaphysics and ethics gives an account for how 702 00:43:19.639 --> 00:43:24.199 there's ethics. That's different than just saying well, it's true 703 00:43:24.199 --> 00:43:26.559 because we have ethics. And that's two different arguments, right. 704 00:43:26.960 --> 00:43:29.880 The atheist doesn't have a basis at all to say 705 00:43:30.000 --> 00:43:35.199 something is wrong, something is ethically morally wrong, it's arbitrary. 706 00:43:35.920 --> 00:43:38.239 That's two different arguments. So if you can make those 707 00:43:38.400 --> 00:43:40.480 that argument and just say oh no, wait a minute, 708 00:43:40.480 --> 00:43:43.960 so Christianity is quote evil or bad, but you don't 709 00:43:44.000 --> 00:43:46.679 actually believe there is any objective evil or bad, so 710 00:43:46.760 --> 00:43:50.559 you have no basis to make an argument that Christianity 711 00:43:51.199 --> 00:43:51.880 is bad. 712 00:43:57.159 --> 00:44:03.719 Okay, next question is, yes, what advice would you give 713 00:44:03.760 --> 00:44:07.440 to an atheist who simply confine it within himself to believe? 714 00:44:12.280 --> 00:44:16.960 I mean, belief is not a like thing that you 715 00:44:17.280 --> 00:44:20.480 work yourself up to. I mean you have to repent, 716 00:44:20.639 --> 00:44:23.800 you have to change your life to believe. There's a 717 00:44:23.840 --> 00:44:28.920 symbiotic relationship between the repenting and changing our ways and 718 00:44:29.360 --> 00:44:32.639 the acquisition of the gift of faith. Right. I mean 719 00:44:32.679 --> 00:44:34.840 it's all grace ultimately, in the sense that God is 720 00:44:34.920 --> 00:44:38.000 the one that's giving us our providential situations that lead 721 00:44:38.079 --> 00:44:40.280 us to believe and repent. And at the same time, 722 00:44:40.400 --> 00:44:42.559 grace is all I mean, faith is also a gift, 723 00:44:43.000 --> 00:44:45.360 So I would ask God for faith and at the 724 00:44:45.400 --> 00:44:49.599 same time, you know, stop whatever degenerates that you're into. 725 00:44:50.320 --> 00:44:51.440 That's that's how it works. 726 00:44:54.079 --> 00:44:57.079 Also, I'm going to send you a someone ask that 727 00:44:57.760 --> 00:45:00.960 you put up a screenshot of each as his tweets, 728 00:45:01.119 --> 00:45:03.559 So I'll send you a screenshot. 729 00:45:03.719 --> 00:45:06.320 No, I'm not doing that. I'm not doing that. I'm 730 00:45:06.320 --> 00:45:09.280 not We're not doing stupid drama. I mean it's an 731 00:45:09.360 --> 00:45:12.320 open invitation. I've invited this guy for eight months to 732 00:45:12.400 --> 00:45:14.480 do a debate and he just talks around it all 733 00:45:14.559 --> 00:45:16.800 do it in six months? Oh were you you made 734 00:45:16.840 --> 00:45:18.800 fun of me? I didn't make fun of you. This 735 00:45:19.000 --> 00:45:20.840 is all he does. He just asks, you know, it's 736 00:45:21.079 --> 00:45:23.400 it's just drama. I'm not doing that. I mean, we 737 00:45:23.480 --> 00:45:26.960 set up we set up a debate with we set 738 00:45:27.039 --> 00:45:31.159 up a debate with his teacher. If we set up 739 00:45:31.159 --> 00:45:33.039 a debate with his teacher, we set up a debate 740 00:45:33.119 --> 00:45:36.719 with everybody else. Have no problems with Zephon Molini, Matt Dela, Hunting, 741 00:45:36.800 --> 00:45:40.519 Adam Okesh, all these different well known people and that. 742 00:45:40.719 --> 00:45:42.519 I mean, it's been months and months and months of 743 00:45:42.599 --> 00:45:44.000 trying to set up a debate with this guy. It's 744 00:45:44.039 --> 00:45:46.159 just a waste of time. I'm not gonna even interact 745 00:45:46.199 --> 00:45:46.480 with him. 746 00:45:48.159 --> 00:45:48.440 Okay. 747 00:45:48.559 --> 00:45:52.159 Another question, is there an attempt to unify the Church 748 00:45:52.239 --> 00:45:55.960 of the East and Orthodox Church actively going on? 749 00:45:56.280 --> 00:45:57.960 I don't know. I don't keep up with that. 750 00:45:58.079 --> 00:45:58.400 I don't know. 751 00:45:59.679 --> 00:46:02.199 I mean, I know there's been discussions with Monophesites. I 752 00:46:02.239 --> 00:46:03.199 don't know about Syrians. 753 00:46:03.360 --> 00:46:03.679 I don't know. 754 00:46:04.760 --> 00:46:09.079 Okay, can you explain what is meant by formal distinctions 755 00:46:09.159 --> 00:46:11.599 in God and why Orthodox reject this. 756 00:46:12.679 --> 00:46:16.840 Doesn't matter what terms you use, because we're not Scotis. 757 00:46:17.199 --> 00:46:19.880 If you read Scotus's treatises, he has two treatises on 758 00:46:19.920 --> 00:46:24.280 the unicity of God and the Existence of God. I've 759 00:46:24.320 --> 00:46:26.119 got the treatises right over here on my shelf, and go. 760 00:46:26.400 --> 00:46:28.000 We did a whole talk on this. Go watch the 761 00:46:28.079 --> 00:46:30.840 talk that we did, me and father Deacon Ananias, where 762 00:46:30.880 --> 00:46:35.400 we covered Anselm's ontological argument and Scotus's arguments for divine simplicity, 763 00:46:35.400 --> 00:46:41.400 where he equates in a strict identity, will, knowledge, essence, unity, 764 00:46:41.719 --> 00:46:44.719 et cetera, all of the attributes of God and he 765 00:46:44.880 --> 00:46:49.599 predicates it all on the basis of natural theology. Okay, 766 00:46:50.239 --> 00:46:53.599 that's that's not our position. We can't unite with Scotism. 767 00:46:53.760 --> 00:46:58.719 So formal distinction of Scotis is just a scholastics, quasi 768 00:46:58.800 --> 00:47:01.719 scholastic thing that's invented to try to have a closer 769 00:47:01.800 --> 00:47:04.800 position because he's trying to do justice to the Eastern position. 770 00:47:05.280 --> 00:47:08.400 It doesn't matter. We already know what the correct distinction is. 771 00:47:08.840 --> 00:47:11.960 It's not based on speculations of later theologians in the 772 00:47:12.000 --> 00:47:17.239 Middle Ages, because the dogmatic councils have already determined what 773 00:47:17.480 --> 00:47:20.679 the distinction is. It's a real distinction between essence and energy, 774 00:47:21.400 --> 00:47:24.599 just as real as a distinction between the hypostases. It's 775 00:47:24.679 --> 00:47:26.960 not even debated in the in the in the in 776 00:47:27.039 --> 00:47:30.760 Our Fathers, It's very clear. I mean, Maximus has tons 777 00:47:30.800 --> 00:47:36.719 of passages that discuss this distinction. Right the sixth Council 778 00:47:36.840 --> 00:47:40.360 predicates its argumentation on the essence energy distinction being real. 779 00:47:41.000 --> 00:47:43.639 I mean imagine saying that creating the world is only 780 00:47:43.760 --> 00:47:46.400 formally distinct from Jesus walking on water. I mean, just 781 00:47:46.480 --> 00:47:50.760 think how stupid that is. So formal distinctions, A formal 782 00:47:50.800 --> 00:47:53.920 distinction is just a scholastic thing to try to have 783 00:47:54.000 --> 00:47:56.760 a position closer to the east. But it doesn't matter 784 00:47:56.920 --> 00:47:59.679 because I can go to Scotus's other works where he 785 00:47:59.840 --> 00:48:02.679 is explicitly says things that we could never agree with. 786 00:48:05.719 --> 00:48:08.360 Okay, we've got a question that I think if Father 787 00:48:08.480 --> 00:48:10.880 Daton is there, I think this would be a good 788 00:48:10.920 --> 00:48:13.800 question for him. So I'm an inquire in a very 789 00:48:13.920 --> 00:48:18.159 evangelical family. They really don't like orthodoxy, and I don't 790 00:48:18.199 --> 00:48:19.719 want to be evangelical anymore. 791 00:48:20.000 --> 00:48:22.360 What do I do? I can't drive yet, and I 792 00:48:22.480 --> 00:48:24.360 don't know anyone orthodox around me. 793 00:48:27.320 --> 00:48:33.079 I'd say, tickets slow, thank you for your question. I 794 00:48:33.199 --> 00:48:38.000 get a lot of these questions and you know, consulted 795 00:48:38.079 --> 00:48:40.519 with my spiritual father on how to approach. 796 00:48:41.280 --> 00:48:46.320 These sorts of things. You know, as many of you converted, know. 797 00:48:46.519 --> 00:48:51.639 That sometimes you spend a long time is a catechumen, 798 00:48:52.239 --> 00:48:58.159 many years. It can be a slow process. So I'd 799 00:48:58.320 --> 00:49:06.199 encourage you if you can't get to a service that 800 00:49:07.639 --> 00:49:11.920 you know, we have a Catechises program on the discourse 801 00:49:12.000 --> 00:49:16.039 here and in fact, I think we correct me if 802 00:49:16.079 --> 00:49:18.880 I'm wrong, Jay and Lewis, but we have a Metropolitan 803 00:49:19.000 --> 00:49:24.639 Jonah aiding in that process. I'd say, really start trying 804 00:49:24.800 --> 00:49:29.559 to you know, get some good reads. We have a 805 00:49:29.719 --> 00:49:34.880 good book recommendation. You can always right me questions and 806 00:49:34.960 --> 00:49:38.159 if it's above my pay grade, any wisdom that I have, 807 00:49:38.320 --> 00:49:41.800 again it comes from my spiritual father, and I'll off 808 00:49:41.840 --> 00:49:42.639 to take questions. 809 00:49:43.079 --> 00:49:45.679 So I think we can help you, and we can. 810 00:49:46.440 --> 00:49:48.800 You know, you're not hopefully you're not going to be 811 00:49:48.880 --> 00:49:53.719 living with your parents forever, and you know, pray, pray 812 00:49:53.800 --> 00:49:59.159 that God, you know, provide the means to eventually attend 813 00:49:59.440 --> 00:50:00.880 a SERVI us and. 814 00:50:02.840 --> 00:50:06.559 I would definitely suggest don't argue Orthodoxy with your parents. 815 00:50:08.639 --> 00:50:13.280 Just try to acquire the spirit of Orthodoxy, and they'll 816 00:50:13.360 --> 00:50:17.360 notice a change and they'll begin to inquire, what is 817 00:50:17.480 --> 00:50:21.199 this new thing that you've found. That's what i'd suggest, 818 00:50:21.360 --> 00:50:24.320 So feel free to write any of us again, We've 819 00:50:24.360 --> 00:50:28.280 got a lot of great resources and you can still 820 00:50:28.480 --> 00:50:30.320 experience Orthodoxy and. 821 00:50:30.360 --> 00:50:32.840 Learn a lot about it that way. 822 00:50:34.559 --> 00:50:36.960 I'm not upset. I get tired of the same questions 823 00:50:37.119 --> 00:50:38.880 over and over and over. And when we do entire 824 00:50:39.000 --> 00:50:42.239 streams answering those questions and then people ask those questions 825 00:50:42.360 --> 00:50:44.119 over and over and over, that's I'm not upset. I'm 826 00:50:44.159 --> 00:50:46.159 just saying that it's already been dealt with. We've done 827 00:50:46.159 --> 00:50:49.239 this million times. And also because I know the people 828 00:50:49.320 --> 00:50:52.719 that will rely on these kind of bogus, you know, 829 00:50:52.840 --> 00:50:55.280 ways around arguments. But I'm going to read you from 830 00:50:55.360 --> 00:50:59.320 the philosophical writings of John Damascus on page fifty six, 831 00:51:00.079 --> 00:51:03.920 says that I establish this knowledge and will of the 832 00:51:04.039 --> 00:51:06.800 First Being or God or God is the same as 833 00:51:06.920 --> 00:51:11.039 his essence, The divine essence is absolutely identical to its will. 834 00:51:11.800 --> 00:51:14.760 And he goes on to say, I have proved thus 835 00:51:15.039 --> 00:51:18.679 that the knowledge the Self love and the essence are 836 00:51:18.719 --> 00:51:22.800 all identical in the first being, there is no knowledge 837 00:51:23.000 --> 00:51:27.079 or accidental He says, there's nothing accidental. No knowledge can 838 00:51:27.119 --> 00:51:32.320 be accidental to the first essence. He goes on and 839 00:51:32.480 --> 00:51:40.880 explicitly states, so there's nothing. But he says, act as purists. Okay, So, like, 840 00:51:41.000 --> 00:51:43.559 how long do we have to keep making the same 841 00:51:43.639 --> 00:51:45.760 responses in the same arguments? And he says it over 842 00:51:45.760 --> 00:51:48.559 and over over. This is not, you know, like one 843 00:51:49.159 --> 00:51:50.840 thing I'm taking out of ord. He says, the love 844 00:51:50.880 --> 00:51:53.159 of God is identical the essence of God. Again, don't 845 00:51:53.159 --> 00:51:58.679 you understand that that's not the triadic christological dogma of 846 00:51:58.760 --> 00:52:02.119 the first seven centuries. We don't teach that, The councils 847 00:52:02.119 --> 00:52:04.760 don't teach that. Johnamascus writes entire books against that. 848 00:52:11.000 --> 00:52:14.000 Okay, we have someone in voice chat who wants to 849 00:52:14.079 --> 00:52:14.760 ask a question. 850 00:52:15.079 --> 00:52:16.320 Welcome manifest. 851 00:52:18.480 --> 00:52:19.880 Yeah, can everybody hear me? 852 00:52:19.960 --> 00:52:20.199 Fine? 853 00:52:20.960 --> 00:52:22.159 Can you all right? 854 00:52:22.719 --> 00:52:25.559 So my question is kind of a compound question, but 855 00:52:25.679 --> 00:52:31.280 it's adhering to one ultimate questions. That's okay, Okay, So 856 00:52:31.840 --> 00:52:35.280 my question is are you familiar with the letters written 857 00:52:35.440 --> 00:52:39.000 in the late nine hundreds and early one thousands, going 858 00:52:39.079 --> 00:52:42.119 back and forth between Roman Constantinople that led to the 859 00:52:42.159 --> 00:52:46.360 Great Schism, and would you, and if so, would you 860 00:52:46.440 --> 00:52:49.679 please explain for us the contents and refutation to the 861 00:52:49.760 --> 00:52:53.440 Roman Catholic argument at the Orthodox Church schisms and not 862 00:52:53.599 --> 00:52:54.360 the other way around. 863 00:52:54.480 --> 00:52:57.000 Yeah. Read Francis de Vornik's entire book on it, and 864 00:52:57.159 --> 00:52:59.840 he is one of your top Unity eight scholars who've 865 00:52:59.840 --> 00:53:01.719 been indicates and admits our position. How's that? 866 00:53:04.239 --> 00:53:04.559 Okay? 867 00:53:05.360 --> 00:53:06.679 What was the name of that book again. 868 00:53:07.840 --> 00:53:12.320 Father Francis de Vornik, The Phocian Schism. It's a famous, 869 00:53:12.400 --> 00:53:13.079 well known book. 870 00:53:15.239 --> 00:53:17.840 I think it referring to the you know, the business. 871 00:53:19.760 --> 00:53:25.000 Yes, okay, but I'm saying that the Vornick covers that 872 00:53:25.159 --> 00:53:26.880 whole period of the Phocian Schism. 873 00:53:28.920 --> 00:53:34.039 All right, thank you. I'll look into that. Okay, thank you. 874 00:53:34.119 --> 00:53:38.599 Manifest Okay, next question, Jay, how do you see the 875 00:53:38.760 --> 00:53:43.239 alien slash extraterrestrial syop evolve in the coming year. 876 00:53:46.320 --> 00:53:48.360 That's not really what we're here to tell. I mean, 877 00:53:48.360 --> 00:53:51.639 I mean, I specify it's okay, I mean I don't 878 00:53:51.679 --> 00:53:54.159 I don't know. I mean, it's entirely possible that they 879 00:53:54.159 --> 00:53:56.400 could throw that kind of a thing at us. After all, 880 00:53:56.440 --> 00:53:59.960 the corunka nonsense. I don't. I don't personally think it'll 881 00:54:00.079 --> 00:54:02.840 go that far, but it could. But I mean, we're 882 00:54:02.880 --> 00:54:06.760 here right now to talk about I said, atheism, logic, metaphysics, 883 00:54:06.800 --> 00:54:11.360 biblical theology, Early Church, Islam, Protestant Roman Catholics. So that's 884 00:54:11.360 --> 00:54:14.719 what we're here to talk about today, not not UFOs. 885 00:54:21.440 --> 00:54:24.440 I guess, I guess that fits under metaphysics. So I 886 00:54:24.480 --> 00:54:27.760 guess do aliens exist as a metaphysical question? So I 887 00:54:27.800 --> 00:54:29.800 guess I guess he is within the balance of what 888 00:54:29.920 --> 00:54:33.159 we're here to talk about. But anybody else, if you 889 00:54:33.239 --> 00:54:36.639 want to, feel free to offer up a super chat 890 00:54:36.840 --> 00:54:41.320 question whatever. I put into the link in the chat here. 891 00:54:43.960 --> 00:54:46.840 Sometimes the discord app crashes, so Discordous crash. Let me 892 00:54:46.880 --> 00:54:51.360 pull it back up. So the app the app crash. 893 00:54:51.440 --> 00:54:55.119 But if you're on the video, if you're watching on YouTube, 894 00:54:55.159 --> 00:54:57.199 I put into the chat the link to Father Deacon 895 00:54:57.239 --> 00:55:00.440 and Night's discussion of Dunscotis and and some we deal 896 00:55:00.480 --> 00:55:03.519 with the theology of those two guys, and are they 897 00:55:03.559 --> 00:55:07.599 compatible with the Orthodox theology? So contrary to the Ecumenists, 898 00:55:07.639 --> 00:55:11.039 they're not. We already have the decisions of the Palomite 899 00:55:11.039 --> 00:55:13.320 Synods which are binding for us, which make it very 900 00:55:13.400 --> 00:55:15.079 clear that you can't. I mean, just read the Tomos 901 00:55:15.119 --> 00:55:18.559 of John Becos. You can't accept Romatholicism if you're Orthodox. 902 00:55:20.119 --> 00:55:22.280 I don't know why people don't know this. It's not 903 00:55:22.519 --> 00:55:27.239 very difficult to see what the Tomos of John Becos says. 904 00:55:27.440 --> 00:55:33.559 It explicitly denies union on the Filioquay issues. It's not 905 00:55:33.719 --> 00:55:36.199 rocket science that we're doing here. What is the Orthodox 906 00:55:36.239 --> 00:55:40.679 position on? I don't know what that is, Gertz says 907 00:55:40.960 --> 00:55:45.880 on sestuy Quay v Act of sixteen sixty six. I 908 00:55:45.960 --> 00:55:49.760 have no I have no idea what that is. Sorry, 909 00:55:49.800 --> 00:55:51.320 I can't. I'm not trying to avoid it, but I 910 00:55:51.360 --> 00:55:52.079 don't know what that is. 911 00:55:53.880 --> 00:55:57.960 Okay, back to the questions, sure. 912 00:55:58.840 --> 00:56:03.559 Okay, So when I asked, would you end capturing Christianity debate? 913 00:56:03.639 --> 00:56:05.679 I know this has come up before. I think Capturing 914 00:56:05.760 --> 00:56:07.679 Christianity refused to debate, didn't he? 915 00:56:09.079 --> 00:56:10.960 Well, we were supposed to. I was supposed to debate 916 00:56:11.280 --> 00:56:12.320 inspiring philosophy. 917 00:56:12.760 --> 00:56:12.880 Uh. 918 00:56:13.039 --> 00:56:15.320 And then they said they said that I had to 919 00:56:15.440 --> 00:56:19.760 agree to not make any quote insults, which we'd already 920 00:56:19.800 --> 00:56:21.400 agreed to the debate. And then they added on these 921 00:56:21.480 --> 00:56:24.719 new criterias that you can't say anything critical or insulting 922 00:56:24.760 --> 00:56:27.519 of the other person. And I said, well, that's too vague. Uh, 923 00:56:27.800 --> 00:56:30.920 And I said, I'm We've already agreed to a debate, 924 00:56:31.159 --> 00:56:33.400 and I'm gonna You know, if I make a mistake 925 00:56:33.440 --> 00:56:34.960 in the debate, you're supposed to call it out. You 926 00:56:35.000 --> 00:56:37.159 don't change the criteria of what I can and can't 927 00:56:37.239 --> 00:56:40.280 say before the debate happens that you've already agreed to. 928 00:56:40.760 --> 00:56:43.119 So they changed the criteria of what couldn't couldn't be said. 929 00:56:43.599 --> 00:56:45.960 And so I said, I'm still willing to debate, but 930 00:56:46.000 --> 00:56:47.800 you're not gonna tell me what I can and can't say. 931 00:56:48.280 --> 00:56:50.559 So then I said, well, why don't capture Christianity. Why 932 00:56:50.559 --> 00:56:52.320 don't you come debate me as well? And he wouldn't 933 00:56:52.360 --> 00:56:54.800 do it. So neither of them wanted to debate. This 934 00:56:55.119 --> 00:56:57.559 was before they were actually familiar with what I do 935 00:56:57.719 --> 00:57:00.519 or what I talk about. And then when I went 936 00:57:00.599 --> 00:57:03.760 and looked into what I argue in my background, then 937 00:57:03.840 --> 00:57:05.920 he decided to come up with this new criterion how 938 00:57:05.960 --> 00:57:09.760 to back out. So I think he backed out. If 939 00:57:09.840 --> 00:57:12.360 Cameron would love to to, I would love to have 940 00:57:12.480 --> 00:57:16.320 Cameron come on, because he believes, with absolutely no training 941 00:57:16.400 --> 00:57:20.199 at all, that he can destroy and refute the transcendental argument. 942 00:57:20.639 --> 00:57:23.239 I would love, I would I would die to uh 943 00:57:23.639 --> 00:57:26.960 to debate capturing Christianity on the transcendental argument and whether 944 00:57:27.000 --> 00:57:31.760 it's sound and valid. So please, Cameron, I pe either 945 00:57:31.800 --> 00:57:34.760 one of you come debate. I promised I won't be 946 00:57:34.880 --> 00:57:36.719 mean to you. I won't hurt your feelings. I promise, 947 00:57:37.800 --> 00:57:39.840 But I don't think that they actually they don't really 948 00:57:39.880 --> 00:57:42.079 want to debate. That's the root of this issue. 949 00:57:42.280 --> 00:57:45.280 And Cameron, if you're listening, if you don't want Jay, 950 00:57:45.920 --> 00:57:48.159 I'm always here and I'm a nice guy. 951 00:57:48.960 --> 00:57:52.320 Father Deacon is much nicer than me, So he's uh, 952 00:57:52.800 --> 00:57:55.559 he's a better he's a better philosopher, more, he's well, 953 00:57:55.719 --> 00:57:58.079 he's more trained than I am. So feel free to 954 00:57:58.239 --> 00:58:05.079 also have an interaction with Father Diacon. Doctor Annias, We've. 955 00:58:04.960 --> 00:58:05.840 Got another question. 956 00:58:07.719 --> 00:58:11.159 What are your thoughts on the visions of Bishop Hieronymous. 957 00:58:11.400 --> 00:58:15.679 I've got angelos. He prophesied the mass future conversion of 958 00:58:15.760 --> 00:58:18.039 Germany to Orthodoxy, as well as the destruction of the 959 00:58:18.119 --> 00:58:21.079 papacy in World War three, as well as a final 960 00:58:21.119 --> 00:58:23.719 ecumenical council to stamp out every heresy. 961 00:58:25.119 --> 00:58:27.159 I've never heard this as new to me. I don't 962 00:58:27.159 --> 00:58:27.760 know anything about it. 963 00:58:28.119 --> 00:58:28.880 Yeah, heard that. 964 00:58:29.000 --> 00:58:30.920 Sounds pretty cool, but I don't know what about it. 965 00:58:33.039 --> 00:58:36.920 Would you be willing to debate ef Dawa, Dude, I've 966 00:58:36.920 --> 00:58:40.880 already debated. We had an aazam before on they uploaded 967 00:58:40.880 --> 00:58:48.679 this to the channel. I mean, here's a challenge. So 968 00:58:49.039 --> 00:58:54.800 Christianity has been on the defensive debating their texts to 969 00:58:54.920 --> 00:59:00.440 the Muslims for thirty years in you know, online audio 970 00:59:00.519 --> 00:59:03.679 debates right all the way back to twenty thirty years ago. 971 00:59:03.800 --> 00:59:06.599 Right when is a Muslim actually going to step up 972 00:59:06.639 --> 00:59:09.840 and defend their theology? They never do it. They won't 973 00:59:09.880 --> 00:59:14.800 debate their theology. They will only debate basing their arguments 974 00:59:14.920 --> 00:59:18.360 on liberal higher criticism. That's all they ever want to debate. 975 00:59:19.280 --> 00:59:22.519 And then because anytime it gets into their territory, it collapses. 976 00:59:23.199 --> 00:59:26.239 So I'm not going to just debate you on the 977 00:59:26.280 --> 00:59:29.199 Gospel of John. Just like sam Simun Shamun said, We're 978 00:59:29.199 --> 00:59:32.400 going to debate Gospel John and the Koran and whether 979 00:59:32.480 --> 00:59:35.599 it contradicts itself. Those are the we don't just do 980 00:59:36.119 --> 00:59:39.760 only our texts, and you guys know that you won't 981 00:59:40.480 --> 00:59:44.440 debate your text because it's difficult to defend because it's impossible, 982 00:59:45.519 --> 00:59:47.440 and none of them. I'm starting to figure out that 983 00:59:47.519 --> 00:59:50.880 the reason that the Muslims won't debate is because they 984 00:59:50.960 --> 00:59:55.360 don't have good theology that's logical, Like, they won't do 985 00:59:55.679 --> 01:00:01.840 logic debates. They're not good at logically debating because they 986 01:00:01.880 --> 01:00:04.599 don't know typical basic fallacies. I'm not trying to be 987 01:00:04.679 --> 01:00:07.159 mean to those guys. I'm not saying that none of 988 01:00:07.199 --> 01:00:09.440 them are good at debating. I'm saying that most of 989 01:00:09.519 --> 01:00:12.239 them who talk all the smack, they don't know basic fallacies, 990 01:00:13.280 --> 01:00:14.760 and so they'll talk about you use a bunch of 991 01:00:14.760 --> 01:00:18.199 philosophy logic. Yeah, you can't debate without philosophy logic. There's 992 01:00:18.239 --> 01:00:21.320 no such thing as a debate that doesn't have criteria 993 01:00:21.559 --> 01:00:26.000 of fallacies contradictions. That's called logic. Those are called fallacies. 994 01:00:26.039 --> 01:00:28.880 That's philosophy. That's the domain of philosophy. It's called logic. 995 01:00:28.960 --> 01:00:30.000 Everybody knows this right. 996 01:00:32.679 --> 01:00:35.320 Anyway, Okay, we got another one. 997 01:00:35.880 --> 01:00:39.000 We have literally like two hundred questions. 998 01:00:40.280 --> 01:00:42.400 No, hold on, hold on, So there's a guy in 999 01:00:42.440 --> 01:00:45.519 the chat say that is false. No, your debates, You 1000 01:00:45.599 --> 01:00:50.119 guys won't debate your texts. Shaver Eli did not want 1001 01:00:50.159 --> 01:00:52.679 to debate his text. I don't just mean the text itself. 1002 01:00:52.719 --> 01:00:55.800 I'm talking about the theology of those texts, right, the 1003 01:00:56.480 --> 01:00:59.719 Taoheed doctrine, the Tanzi doctrine. You don't want to debate 1004 01:00:59.800 --> 01:01:03.960 those doctrines. That's what I'm talking about. It's not a 1005 01:01:04.039 --> 01:01:05.880 cop dude, What are you talking about it? He says. 1006 01:01:05.960 --> 01:01:09.519 He says, I'm copping out, dude. We've invited what's seven 1007 01:01:09.920 --> 01:01:12.760 six seven of your top scholars and they won't debate 1008 01:01:13.039 --> 01:01:16.280 Shabira Lee. Credit to Shabira Lee because he did. So 1009 01:01:16.400 --> 01:01:17.840 what are you talking about? I'm not This is what 1010 01:01:17.920 --> 01:01:20.400 you guys do? You say cop out when we invite 1011 01:01:20.440 --> 01:01:23.320 you on all the time. There's an open invitation to 1012 01:01:23.480 --> 01:01:28.920 Muhammed he Jubb yesterday, right undred four hundred, four hundred 1013 01:01:29.079 --> 01:01:32.800 likes on the tweet, two one hundred and twenty retweets, 1014 01:01:33.079 --> 01:01:35.000 and he ignores the tweet like you didn't see it. 1015 01:01:35.079 --> 01:01:38.199 Come on, come on, don't don't tell me it's a 1016 01:01:38.280 --> 01:01:41.280 cop out. When you guys won't come on in debate, 1017 01:01:45.119 --> 01:01:47.360 I mean imagine inviting. So this is that we've done 1018 01:01:47.400 --> 01:01:50.559 three public debates with Muslim No One of them. They're 1019 01:01:50.599 --> 01:01:53.840 top debaters. And their reply is, you're scared and you're 1020 01:01:53.880 --> 01:01:57.679 copping out. We've invited what Lewis tell me? He isn't 1021 01:01:57.880 --> 01:01:59.679 six seven Muslim scholars. 1022 01:01:59.719 --> 01:02:01.519 Now it's like seven or eight? 1023 01:02:01.679 --> 01:02:07.360 Yeah, what are you talking about? Total nonsense? All right, sorry, 1024 01:02:07.440 --> 01:02:08.599 go ahead, Grido, do. 1025 01:02:08.599 --> 01:02:09.119 You want to Oh? 1026 01:02:11.039 --> 01:02:14.519 So, someone asked, I know that there have been critiques 1027 01:02:14.559 --> 01:02:17.480 of the Catholic view of Mary where they almost view 1028 01:02:17.559 --> 01:02:21.039 her as a co source of salvation. How is this 1029 01:02:21.320 --> 01:02:25.239 different in the Orthodox Church where they ask Mary to save. 1030 01:02:25.079 --> 01:02:29.199 Us the same way that we ask anyone else to 1031 01:02:29.239 --> 01:02:31.800 pray for us and save us. Obviously her prayers have 1032 01:02:32.480 --> 01:02:35.480 more efficacy because she's the highest of God's creation. Right, 1033 01:02:36.480 --> 01:02:39.760 But Paul says, in doing so you will say you know, 1034 01:02:39.880 --> 01:02:42.159 he says, keep this, this, this, and in doing so 1035 01:02:42.320 --> 01:02:43.800 you will save those around you. 1036 01:02:44.559 --> 01:02:44.679 Right? 1037 01:02:44.719 --> 01:02:48.519 Does Paul mean that creatures become saviors like Jesus? No, 1038 01:02:48.719 --> 01:02:53.960 this is the standard typical Protestant heretical slipped up on words. 1039 01:02:54.000 --> 01:02:56.159 You guys get slipped up on words because, just like 1040 01:02:56.239 --> 01:02:58.440 the Muslims, you think that words only have one meaning 1041 01:02:58.480 --> 01:03:01.400 in one sense. So it's just the word concept fallacy. 1042 01:03:01.719 --> 01:03:04.480 It's two different senses to salvation. Right, you can have 1043 01:03:04.639 --> 01:03:08.280 a person who aids in your salvation without being the 1044 01:03:08.639 --> 01:03:11.400 ultimate source of the salvation. Paul says we are co 1045 01:03:11.679 --> 01:03:13.920 workers with God. Does that mean ah, he said, a 1046 01:03:14.000 --> 01:03:16.480 coworker with God. So Paul thinks we're equal to God. 1047 01:03:16.800 --> 01:03:18.880 You see what this is? Just silly. Nobody does this 1048 01:03:19.119 --> 01:03:21.719 in the rest of their life, in the rest of 1049 01:03:21.800 --> 01:03:25.400 their texts. Right, you don't always squish. Yeah, you don't 1050 01:03:25.440 --> 01:03:28.119 squish a word into only having one meaning in one sense. 1051 01:03:28.199 --> 01:03:30.880 Nobody does this in the rest of their life. Right, 1052 01:03:31.039 --> 01:03:33.440 what does doctor bo say? A kid? Oh, a kid 1053 01:03:33.519 --> 01:03:36.840 always means a goat. Right, So if you have a kid, 1054 01:03:36.920 --> 01:03:38.519 you have this is what are you talking about? It's 1055 01:03:38.559 --> 01:03:42.599 different senses of the word. This is childishness. Anyway, I'm 1056 01:03:42.639 --> 01:03:48.159 getting all wild up. Uh, just go watch Craig Triulia's 1057 01:03:48.480 --> 01:03:50.920 videos on Mary. He has plenty of great videos on 1058 01:03:51.400 --> 01:03:53.960 Mary and the northodox Ya. So there's your answer. 1059 01:03:54.280 --> 01:03:56.239 Yeah, Greg, In. 1060 01:03:56.280 --> 01:04:01.119 General, another one, Keny the deacon, you'd probably want to 1061 01:04:01.679 --> 01:04:05.360 can you outline an atheist starter kit for Orthodoxy? What 1062 01:04:05.519 --> 01:04:09.639 should be the duties of an ex atheist before joining 1063 01:04:09.719 --> 01:04:10.599 the Orthodox Church? 1064 01:04:11.960 --> 01:04:14.360 Well, Father Deacon, while you answered that I'm gonna go 1065 01:04:14.880 --> 01:04:17.719 we we So do you feel free to take over here. 1066 01:04:21.199 --> 01:04:25.599 An atheist starter camp, start a kit? So, like what 1067 01:04:25.719 --> 01:04:29.679 should like an atheist person, like what books should they read? 1068 01:04:30.159 --> 01:04:30.199 Like? 1069 01:04:30.719 --> 01:04:33.920 What what what should they buy first? Coming into Orthodoxy? 1070 01:04:35.960 --> 01:04:36.800 Like nihilism? 1071 01:04:39.880 --> 01:04:42.800 Yeah, Father Sarah and Rise is great. Ye. 1072 01:04:45.320 --> 01:04:49.320 I'd also probably supplement some of the Orthodox reads with. 1073 01:04:52.320 --> 01:04:58.199 See because I'd say a lot of the atheists you 1074 01:04:58.400 --> 01:05:03.079 encounter are just deficient in the rich history of kind. 1075 01:05:03.000 --> 01:05:09.039 Of theism within the kind of concepts, even like Aristota 1076 01:05:09.079 --> 01:05:10.760 on the Plato that. 1077 01:05:12.440 --> 01:05:14.519 And then. 1078 01:05:16.840 --> 01:05:21.559 John I would probably the Orthodox faith saying John Damascus 1079 01:05:22.320 --> 01:05:25.239 would be good because then you're you're talking about the 1080 01:05:25.360 --> 01:05:37.079 attributes God. Let's see, you could always have them reads. 1081 01:05:37.199 --> 01:05:40.679 He's brothers. Karen is off too. That's converted a lot of. 1082 01:05:44.239 --> 01:05:44.360 Uh. 1083 01:05:45.760 --> 01:05:54.880 I'm trying to think, you know, just generally, something that 1084 01:05:54.960 --> 01:05:56.000 I noticed is that. 1085 01:05:58.039 --> 01:06:03.039 Most atheists that we encounter are generally deficient in the 1086 01:06:03.119 --> 01:06:05.800 great works in literature and theology. 1087 01:06:06.719 --> 01:06:12.280 So you know, Leje Toli, just take up and read it. 1088 01:06:13.239 --> 01:06:13.960 That's what I mean. 1089 01:06:14.000 --> 01:06:19.159 If you you never want a strong man your opponent's position, 1090 01:06:20.280 --> 01:06:26.119 so when you go into debate, you know, like us, 1091 01:06:26.400 --> 01:06:32.480 we read as much as possible of our opponents theology 1092 01:06:32.800 --> 01:06:35.079 or philosophy and literature so. 1093 01:06:35.360 --> 01:06:37.719 That we're not misrepresenting it, so that when we do 1094 01:06:37.880 --> 01:06:40.639 form a critique, the critique is a good one. You 1095 01:06:40.679 --> 01:06:43.559 don't want to ever straw Man. And I think that's 1096 01:06:43.639 --> 01:06:47.760 something that most atheists could learn from. 1097 01:06:50.679 --> 01:06:53.000 You know, you get these people like Lawrence Kraus, even 1098 01:06:53.119 --> 01:06:55.039 like the popular atheists. 1099 01:06:56.440 --> 01:07:00.519 Dockings. None of these people have studied philosophy. 1100 01:07:00.320 --> 01:07:04.880 Let alone theology, yet they're going to formulate these stupid 1101 01:07:04.960 --> 01:07:09.440 straw Man critiques. So again, I just think it would 1102 01:07:09.480 --> 01:07:14.039 be a really good atheist starter kit, great books, liberal 1103 01:07:14.119 --> 01:07:17.599 arts program. There you go, because you're going to get 1104 01:07:17.599 --> 01:07:19.000 the church history of the philosophy. 1105 01:07:23.039 --> 01:07:26.800 All right, Okay, I'm back and we're done. 1106 01:07:28.079 --> 01:07:30.920 Yea. I was just saying that, actually, you know what 1107 01:07:30.960 --> 01:07:32.320 a good atheist starter kit. 1108 01:07:32.280 --> 01:07:32.599 Would be. 1109 01:07:35.159 --> 01:07:41.360 Simply a great books, liberal arts program for atheists. Uh 1110 01:07:43.239 --> 01:07:48.360 read Well, I'm just saying they're deficient in the literature. 1111 01:07:49.000 --> 01:07:52.800 They don't even know, you know, what they're talking about 1112 01:07:52.920 --> 01:07:54.559 when they're formulating these critiques. 1113 01:07:54.719 --> 01:07:57.559 And I don't think I think it would be beneficial 1114 01:07:57.679 --> 01:08:01.400 not just to read up on orthodox theology, but. 1115 01:08:02.920 --> 01:08:06.480 The history of Western thought in general, going back a 1116 01:08:06.599 --> 01:08:08.000 Greek philosophy as well. 1117 01:08:11.199 --> 01:08:14.239 Oh, I guess I highly doubt Lawrence Craft ever read 1118 01:08:14.280 --> 01:08:15.199 Crime and Punishment. 1119 01:08:20.079 --> 01:08:21.680 Okay, next question. 1120 01:08:21.960 --> 01:08:23.880 Crime and Punishment is great, by the way, I highly 1121 01:08:23.920 --> 01:08:24.399 recommend it. 1122 01:08:26.399 --> 01:08:29.680 There's one of two thousand books on my reading list. 1123 01:08:30.800 --> 01:08:34.279 I have a book for every year that I have 1124 01:08:34.359 --> 01:08:36.720 a book for every year that the earth has existed. 1125 01:08:36.720 --> 01:08:39.079 It's like two thousand, roughly two thousand. 1126 01:08:39.880 --> 01:08:40.199 Okay. 1127 01:08:41.640 --> 01:08:47.039 What significant theological differences exist between Eastern and Oriental orthodox 1128 01:08:47.680 --> 01:08:49.439 other than the Calcedonian issue. 1129 01:08:49.520 --> 01:08:50.760 I've not been able to find. 1130 01:08:50.560 --> 01:08:55.119 A good articulation of their differences other than the Calcedonian controversy. 1131 01:08:56.960 --> 01:08:59.640 They're not united. A snack you could probably speak to this. 1132 01:08:59.720 --> 01:09:01.239 If you're in here, you may have gone. I don't know, 1133 01:09:01.359 --> 01:09:04.720 but I mean, they have a lot of division. They 1134 01:09:04.760 --> 01:09:06.279 meet like once or twice a year, and they just 1135 01:09:06.359 --> 01:09:08.520 kind of act like they're in communion. But they have 1136 01:09:08.640 --> 01:09:12.199 all kinds of vast divergences amongst them, from animal sacrifice 1137 01:09:12.239 --> 01:09:16.840 to circumcision to all kinds of bizarre things. So I'm 1138 01:09:16.880 --> 01:09:18.479 not trying to be mean, but I mean that the 1139 01:09:18.640 --> 01:09:22.520 Oriental quote unquote Orthodox Communion is not really any kind 1140 01:09:22.520 --> 01:09:25.039 of unified thing at all. That's just in theory. 1141 01:09:26.159 --> 01:09:28.800 It's more similar to the Anglican Commune, where they will 1142 01:09:28.840 --> 01:09:32.680 have like new large differences and even like vising them, 1143 01:09:32.760 --> 01:09:36.039 you will have you know, the Armenians today they are 1144 01:09:36.079 --> 01:09:44.039 more Cacedonians in terms of christology. Yeah, again circumcision because 1145 01:09:44.079 --> 01:09:47.119 in marriage, use of living and unleven bred. 1146 01:09:49.199 --> 01:09:50.319 Animal sacrifice. 1147 01:09:51.920 --> 01:09:55.840 Between these ches, you're forgetting one of the other crucial 1148 01:09:55.920 --> 01:09:59.560 differences neck, which is that the Ethiopians have a different 1149 01:09:59.640 --> 01:10:03.920 canon from the rest of the Oriental Orthodox, so they include. 1150 01:10:05.920 --> 01:10:09.079 I mean we have slight variations again between the different works. 1151 01:10:09.640 --> 01:10:09.800 Is that. 1152 01:10:11.479 --> 01:10:14.439 Yeah, when it comes to the it's like really different, 1153 01:10:14.760 --> 01:10:17.520 Like they literally have changes to the New Testament, which is. 1154 01:10:21.039 --> 01:10:23.000 Yeah. I mean there's all kinds of other issues too. 1155 01:10:23.119 --> 01:10:25.640 I mean that the the the I mean, you got 1156 01:10:25.800 --> 01:10:29.880 like the poption out a writing a whole treatise a 1157 01:10:29.960 --> 01:10:34.960 few years ago against the Osis, which is I mean ludicrous, unfathomable. 1158 01:10:35.000 --> 01:10:37.159 It reads like something James White would have written. I mean, 1159 01:10:37.520 --> 01:10:39.920 the idea that you could be an Orthodox pope of 1160 01:10:39.960 --> 01:10:43.600 Alexandria quote unquote, that's they're called the pope of Alexandria 1161 01:10:44.000 --> 01:10:47.920 and uh, you know you're the successor to Athanasius and 1162 01:10:47.960 --> 01:10:49.880 you write a whole treatise against the Osis. I mean 1163 01:10:49.920 --> 01:10:50.960 this is just preposterous. 1164 01:10:53.439 --> 01:10:53.680 Yeah. 1165 01:10:55.640 --> 01:10:58.520 And by the way, some people opposed it in his 1166 01:10:58.680 --> 01:11:01.000 church for doing this one. 1167 01:11:04.600 --> 01:11:06.640 Snack snack you cut out there? Can you repeat that? 1168 01:11:09.199 --> 01:11:11.800 Yeah, there's been a lot of opposition because it's inside 1169 01:11:11.840 --> 01:11:12.359 this church. 1170 01:11:12.680 --> 01:11:16.319 So this Matthews the poor where you have burst it. 1171 01:11:17.279 --> 01:11:20.560 He read the Fathers in Greek and he taught Theosis 1172 01:11:20.600 --> 01:11:23.039 and at this point and he was one of the 1173 01:11:23.079 --> 01:11:26.399 biggest mystics of the Coptic quote. 1174 01:11:27.479 --> 01:11:30.920 Well, imagine having this stress on the union, but right, 1175 01:11:31.000 --> 01:11:34.600 I mean they have this over emphasis on union when 1176 01:11:34.640 --> 01:11:37.279 it comes to who or what Christ is and then 1177 01:11:37.319 --> 01:11:40.760 turning around in denying Theosis. This is it's like, I 1178 01:11:40.800 --> 01:11:43.960 don't know, I can't fathom how. But I mean when 1179 01:11:43.960 --> 01:11:46.560 you when you read their theology in that guy's theology, 1180 01:11:46.680 --> 01:11:48.680 or if you listen to David's debate, I mean, if 1181 01:11:48.680 --> 01:11:51.760 you heard David's debate, it's they're they're like all over 1182 01:11:51.840 --> 01:11:54.800 the place, right, you start talking about energies and they 1183 01:11:54.840 --> 01:11:58.000 don't even know. They're like, I don't know, Yeah, there's energies, 1184 01:11:58.039 --> 01:12:00.560 but maybe there's one or two or kind. I don't know. 1185 01:12:01.359 --> 01:12:04.960 I mean, it's come on, we have a clear, precise 1186 01:12:05.079 --> 01:12:09.159 theology when it comes to person, nature, will, essence, energy, 1187 01:12:09.359 --> 01:12:12.439 all that stuff. It's consistent from the Triad to Christology. 1188 01:12:13.119 --> 01:12:15.039 That's the big difference there too, is that they don't 1189 01:12:15.319 --> 01:12:19.760 see that there's a correspondence between nature, person, will, energy 1190 01:12:19.880 --> 01:12:24.880 in the Triad into Christology. They disagree with that. Republicative predication, 1191 01:12:27.520 --> 01:12:28.600 reduplicate predication. 1192 01:12:28.640 --> 01:12:34.720 Excuse me, Okay, what would you say to someone who 1193 01:12:34.840 --> 01:12:38.640 claims that John seven, five, three through eight to eleven 1194 01:12:38.960 --> 01:12:42.600 is a fabrication by the early Church to push Christianity 1195 01:12:42.760 --> 01:12:46.560 over Mosaic law, or just the fabrication in general. 1196 01:12:48.000 --> 01:12:50.199 We covered this in the James snapstream. We did a 1197 01:12:50.239 --> 01:12:53.680 whole stream on this. I don't even think it's out 1198 01:12:53.680 --> 01:12:57.199 of accord with the Old Testament. Go listen to the 1199 01:12:57.279 --> 01:12:59.319 James snapstream we did on textual history. 1200 01:13:00.600 --> 01:13:04.079 So, yeah, because in mosaic law you had to have 1201 01:13:04.279 --> 01:13:08.159 the man who she committed with you exactly. 1202 01:13:08.720 --> 01:13:09.880 That was what the issue was. 1203 01:13:12.600 --> 01:13:15.039 Yeah, I mean in many in many other places, Jesus 1204 01:13:15.279 --> 01:13:19.520 absolutely upholds the continuity with the mosaic administration. So the 1205 01:13:19.640 --> 01:13:21.960 idea that there's not continuity is kind of ludicrous. But 1206 01:13:22.119 --> 01:13:24.840 go ahead, Okay, this. 1207 01:13:25.039 --> 01:13:28.359 Is for either you or Father de Yeah. Are my 1208 01:13:28.520 --> 01:13:34.319 prayers for others, both alive and past, even uh even heard? 1209 01:13:34.479 --> 01:13:37.920 If I'm not baptized in the Orthodox Church or participating 1210 01:13:37.960 --> 01:13:40.720 in the EU Christ, do you have any recommended prayers 1211 01:13:40.800 --> 01:13:44.720 for those who have died before finding Christ slash Orthodoxy? 1212 01:13:45.960 --> 01:13:48.359 I would answer that yes, God can hear all prayers 1213 01:13:48.479 --> 01:13:51.359 because God, it says God heard Cornelius's prayers before he 1214 01:13:51.479 --> 01:13:52.119 was baptized. 1215 01:13:55.000 --> 01:13:57.159 All right, Yeah, and you can use any prayers. 1216 01:13:58.560 --> 01:14:02.800 The only place that non Orthodox aren't commemorated is that 1217 01:14:03.000 --> 01:14:07.239 the alta in the preparation of the Eucharist in the Proscamede. 1218 01:14:07.520 --> 01:14:07.800 That's it. 1219 01:14:10.279 --> 01:14:12.560 Jordanville has a really good prayer book if you want 1220 01:14:12.600 --> 01:14:13.119 one of those. 1221 01:14:13.920 --> 01:14:15.800 Yeah, bather Digan, did you want to comment on that, 1222 01:14:15.880 --> 01:14:16.720 I mean to cut you off. 1223 01:14:17.439 --> 01:14:20.399 No, that's exactly correct answer. 1224 01:14:20.760 --> 01:14:21.439 Of course, got. 1225 01:14:23.279 --> 01:14:27.560 All our prayers. But at the same time it encourages. 1226 01:14:27.159 --> 01:14:31.239 Us to go further into Orthodoxy because the prayers are 1227 01:14:31.279 --> 01:14:32.840 a righteous man avails much. 1228 01:14:34.600 --> 01:14:36.840 And so I try to use that. 1229 01:14:37.000 --> 01:14:42.039 As you know, it's hard to motivate myself to do 1230 01:14:42.199 --> 01:14:45.880 stuff when I just think about myself. But if I 1231 01:14:46.000 --> 01:14:49.079 realize that you know, other people depend on me. And 1232 01:14:49.119 --> 01:14:50.640 I don't know how all of you feel about this, 1233 01:14:50.840 --> 01:14:54.239 but for me, that's kind of a motivating factor. 1234 01:14:54.760 --> 01:15:00.439 At lights a fire and it needs me. And the that's. 1235 01:15:02.039 --> 01:15:05.159 Something that we could do, is that know that you 1236 01:15:05.239 --> 01:15:08.840 know other people depend on us, and that maybe I 1237 01:15:08.920 --> 01:15:12.760 can't motivate myself to get, you know, further my spiritual life. 1238 01:15:14.439 --> 01:15:16.359 The fact that if you get further into spiritual life, 1239 01:15:16.359 --> 01:15:18.880 you will be helping others is a wonderful thing. 1240 01:15:19.640 --> 01:15:22.079 Garbage man has a question for seven dollars that looks 1241 01:15:22.119 --> 01:15:26.159 like it's probably intended to trap me. The position on 1242 01:15:27.159 --> 01:15:29.399 the church is that the church is the new Israel. 1243 01:15:29.560 --> 01:15:32.239 So that should tell you the obvious answer to that question. 1244 01:15:32.359 --> 01:15:34.159 It shouldn't be very hard for you to figure that out. 1245 01:15:35.199 --> 01:15:38.319 Although I do appreciate your appreciate your seven dollars. There 1246 01:15:38.359 --> 01:15:40.880 should be plenty of quotes that explain to you what 1247 01:15:41.000 --> 01:15:44.159 our position is. Gert sends a dollar and he says, 1248 01:15:44.279 --> 01:15:47.720 in the future garden City, will we go back to 1249 01:15:47.840 --> 01:15:52.359 being androgynist beings described in Genesis? We're not androgynist beings. 1250 01:15:53.279 --> 01:16:00.159 Genesis I don't think describes androgynist beings. So if you 1251 01:16:00.239 --> 01:16:04.039 if you read uh Father Sara from Rose in Genesis 1252 01:16:04.119 --> 01:16:05.840 Creation Early Man, he actually has a section where he 1253 01:16:05.880 --> 01:16:08.479 talks about how he and I think he's correct. Uh, 1254 01:16:08.960 --> 01:16:12.319 there there was gender before the fall. Some of the 1255 01:16:12.359 --> 01:16:15.680 Eastern fathers speculated on this and speculator that maybe gender 1256 01:16:15.880 --> 01:16:19.279 wasn't introduced after the Fall. I don't believe that. But obviously, 1257 01:16:19.399 --> 01:16:21.079 by the way, Jay. 1258 01:16:21.039 --> 01:16:25.800 I'd avoid the what's called the woke PC translation of 1259 01:16:26.640 --> 01:16:27.079 the Bible. 1260 01:16:27.600 --> 01:16:31.720 We might actually get, Yeah, I get an orthodox study. 1261 01:16:31.760 --> 01:16:34.399 By yeah, I would say, I don't know what, but 1262 01:16:34.479 --> 01:16:35.960 which which one are you talking about? Like N I 1263 01:16:36.000 --> 01:16:39.600 V or something or I'm just you mean, like when 1264 01:16:39.640 --> 01:16:42.279 they come out with the like the the literal woke 1265 01:16:42.359 --> 01:16:51.119 Bible exactly, they will probably have like the woke study Bible, right, Okay, And. 1266 01:16:51.520 --> 01:16:57.439 Yeah, and it's just a prosperity gospel and uh liberation theology. 1267 01:16:57.600 --> 01:16:57.840 That's it. 1268 01:16:58.520 --> 01:17:00.720 That's your wife stuff, right. Next question. 1269 01:17:02.199 --> 01:17:05.520 The next question is what, if any difference is there 1270 01:17:05.640 --> 01:17:10.279 between monophysitism and mea physicism. Is there an actual difference 1271 01:17:10.439 --> 01:17:13.840 or is it just an attempt at obfuscation by the Orientals. 1272 01:17:15.039 --> 01:17:17.640 Yeah, I mean again, all of these have been dealt 1273 01:17:17.680 --> 01:17:20.680 with with hours and hours of streams with David me 1274 01:17:20.760 --> 01:17:24.159 and David. David has an entire lecture course on this topic. 1275 01:17:24.239 --> 01:17:26.920 He just did a stream on my physicum. So go 1276 01:17:27.039 --> 01:17:29.279 to David the real medwif's channel. He did a two 1277 01:17:29.359 --> 01:17:33.439 and a half hour stream on my ephicitism. And yes, 1278 01:17:33.479 --> 01:17:36.279 there is an orthodox way to understand my physitism Saint 1279 01:17:36.760 --> 01:17:39.840 Cyril of Alexander, the Christological controversy. That whole book is 1280 01:17:39.880 --> 01:17:43.520 written by Father John McGuckin to explain that topic. So no, 1281 01:17:43.680 --> 01:17:48.359 it's not all obbliscation. I'm not trying to be rude. 1282 01:17:48.399 --> 01:17:50.279 I'm just saying that one of the reasons that we 1283 01:17:50.479 --> 01:17:53.399 do like a long two hour stream answering each one 1284 01:17:53.399 --> 01:17:56.279 of these types of topics, whether it's John Denscotis or 1285 01:17:56.319 --> 01:17:59.000 whether it's my physitism, is so that we don't have 1286 01:17:59.119 --> 01:18:03.079 to like constantly rehearse, you know, an hour's worth of material. 1287 01:18:03.159 --> 01:18:05.279 One reason I'm doing this is because when people come 1288 01:18:05.319 --> 01:18:07.079 to the discord, which I'm fine with, I enjoy that, 1289 01:18:07.680 --> 01:18:10.600 you know, every other day we're doing like five six 1290 01:18:10.800 --> 01:18:14.680 seven hour talks and then this you know, two days 1291 01:18:14.760 --> 01:18:17.520 later the same question comes up. How is some sooner 1292 01:18:17.640 --> 01:18:21.319 just sinction, not pell I mean, not neoplatonism. And we've 1293 01:18:21.319 --> 01:18:24.720 already spent four hours the day before talking about that, 1294 01:18:24.880 --> 01:18:28.479 so there's no point in just constantly redoing the same talk. 1295 01:18:29.000 --> 01:18:30.640 So I'm not trying to be rude. I'm just saying 1296 01:18:30.680 --> 01:18:34.880 that if David does twenty different streams explaining that very question, 1297 01:18:35.479 --> 01:18:38.600 go watch David's stream or read the mcguck and book 1298 01:18:41.560 --> 01:18:45.199 searching for three dollars. I'm an atheist who finds myself 1299 01:18:45.399 --> 01:18:50.239 unsatisfied with moral relativism and unanswered big questions. I can't 1300 01:18:50.520 --> 01:18:53.920 seem to accept any non empirical evidence outside of my senses. 1301 01:18:54.600 --> 01:18:56.680 How do I? And then it trails off. I can't 1302 01:18:56.680 --> 01:18:58.960 see the rest of it. So I mean, just think 1303 01:18:59.000 --> 01:19:03.359 about numbers and math objective or excuse me, abstract entities. 1304 01:19:03.720 --> 01:19:07.399 They're obviously not identical to empirical stuff. So you already 1305 01:19:07.520 --> 01:19:10.760 do believe in non empirical things. If you believe in logic, 1306 01:19:10.840 --> 01:19:16.079 if you believe in math, geometry, you already believe concepts 1307 01:19:16.279 --> 01:19:19.119 those are non empirical. So I would just argue that 1308 01:19:19.199 --> 01:19:24.159 you already believe in non empirical evidence, because evidence as 1309 01:19:24.279 --> 01:19:28.159 a concept is not matter. So when you say you 1310 01:19:28.279 --> 01:19:33.840 believe in evidence, it's non empirical already. That's my response 1311 01:19:33.920 --> 01:19:34.760 to that. But thank you for this. 1312 01:19:34.840 --> 01:19:37.760 If he, if he has issues, is more relativism. He 1313 01:19:37.920 --> 01:19:41.239 presumably believes in the existence of moral facts, which are. 1314 01:19:41.760 --> 01:19:44.840 Also not matter. Right, So you're talking about value judgments, right, 1315 01:19:44.880 --> 01:19:48.439 if you're making a statement about something being morally wrong 1316 01:19:48.560 --> 01:19:51.239 or right. Well, if everything's just matter, there are no 1317 01:19:51.319 --> 01:19:54.159 value judgments. Everything just is, you say, So saying something 1318 01:19:54.239 --> 01:19:59.399 is wrong requires categories that are not identical to or 1319 01:19:59.479 --> 01:20:02.199 reducible will to matter or states of matter. 1320 01:20:02.960 --> 01:20:04.960 It's called the naturalism, Pallas. 1321 01:20:04.760 --> 01:20:09.279 Exactly, Thank you, But great question. They're searching much appreciate it. 1322 01:20:11.760 --> 01:20:15.560 Okay, what happens to people who never heard of Orthodoxy 1323 01:20:15.800 --> 01:20:19.199 after death? For example, the Pagans that died before they 1324 01:20:19.279 --> 01:20:20.840 had contact with Christianity. 1325 01:20:21.119 --> 01:20:22.039 How are they judged? 1326 01:20:22.520 --> 01:20:24.920 So I think we had this same question about an 1327 01:20:24.960 --> 01:20:27.399 hour ago, and then we had the same question, yester, 1328 01:20:28.720 --> 01:20:31.039 I'm just laughing because that's why we're doing this, So 1329 01:20:31.119 --> 01:20:33.720 we don't have to keep doing this. I mean, so 1330 01:20:34.159 --> 01:20:37.520 again we have the heroing of Hades doctrine, everybody that 1331 01:20:37.600 --> 01:20:40.000 died before the coming of Christ were told in the 1332 01:20:40.039 --> 01:20:43.039 New Testament they were in Hades. Peter says the Gospel 1333 01:20:43.159 --> 01:20:47.239 was preached to those who were dead. Jesus descended into 1334 01:20:47.319 --> 01:20:50.960 Hades at his death to preach the Gospel. The church 1335 01:20:51.039 --> 01:20:53.479 fathers are very clear about this. Saint Cyril of Alexander 1336 01:20:53.600 --> 01:20:55.960 has multiple section wy he talks about this, and he says, 1337 01:20:56.239 --> 01:20:58.520 the Gospel has preached to all of the Old Testament dead. 1338 01:21:01.399 --> 01:21:05.359 That's it now. People who nowadays die outside of hearing 1339 01:21:05.399 --> 01:21:07.800 the Gospel. Paul says in the Romans too, that they 1340 01:21:07.920 --> 01:21:10.079 have a light that is given to them the law 1341 01:21:10.119 --> 01:21:11.920 of nature. They will be judged by the law of nature. 1342 01:21:11.920 --> 01:21:14.560 That doesn't mean they're automatically saved. They still have to 1343 01:21:14.680 --> 01:21:17.880 have some exposure to Christ to attain theosis. You can 1344 01:21:17.960 --> 01:21:21.319 be saved without theosis. So whether God preaches to them 1345 01:21:21.399 --> 01:21:23.359 in some way, we don't know. We leave that up 1346 01:21:23.359 --> 01:21:26.239 to God. The Orthodox Church or the Eastern tradition is 1347 01:21:26.319 --> 01:21:28.640 not as interested in trying to figure all this stuff 1348 01:21:28.640 --> 01:21:31.840 out because we're simply not told. Ubi Petris just did 1349 01:21:31.880 --> 01:21:36.319 a giant floora gellium of the fate of unbaptized infants, right, 1350 01:21:36.439 --> 01:21:39.560 and so go to Ubi Petris, and you'll see that 1351 01:21:39.880 --> 01:21:43.479 we have a tradition of not really trying to speculate 1352 01:21:43.560 --> 01:21:45.800 other than to commend people to God. We don't know, 1353 01:21:46.560 --> 01:21:48.680 but we have the injunction that we have to preach 1354 01:21:48.720 --> 01:21:52.800 the Gospel. We have to convert people. Whether God reaches 1355 01:21:52.840 --> 01:21:54.920 them in some unknown way is up to God. 1356 01:21:58.039 --> 01:22:03.399 An interesting factoy into tradition, Plato heard the Gospel while 1357 01:22:03.439 --> 01:22:06.520 in Hades and repented, and he actually appeared to a 1358 01:22:06.640 --> 01:22:09.760 monk and told him to stop cursing him. 1359 01:22:10.520 --> 01:22:16.279 Entirely possible. So I will there, funny, here is the 1360 01:22:17.560 --> 01:22:23.119 Here is Ubi Petris's patristic list of fate of unbaptized infants. 1361 01:22:23.199 --> 01:22:25.319 So that will kind of give you an insight into 1362 01:22:25.880 --> 01:22:28.479 the question you're asking there. So you've got quotes from 1363 01:22:29.960 --> 01:22:35.119 iaron a is talking about the recapitulation that Christ's incarnation 1364 01:22:35.399 --> 01:22:38.399 reaches to all of human nature. Gregory, the theologian, Gregory, 1365 01:22:38.800 --> 01:22:45.359 of course, spoke often of this Ambrose, Innocent, Zosimus Carthage. 1366 01:22:47.359 --> 01:22:49.840 What else is in there, Gregory the Great? So that 1367 01:22:49.960 --> 01:22:54.920 you'll you'll see that there is a kind of a uh, 1368 01:22:56.159 --> 01:22:59.199 we should know that the when baptized infants die, they 1369 01:22:59.319 --> 01:23:03.079 enjoy paradise. Those not illumined by baptism do not go 1370 01:23:03.199 --> 01:23:06.640 to paradise nor gahinna. So that's on the Sunday of 1371 01:23:06.760 --> 01:23:11.119 meat fair, you see. So anyway, there's more in that link. 1372 01:23:11.239 --> 01:23:13.800 We don't speculate, We don't worry about those kinds of things. 1373 01:23:14.159 --> 01:23:16.800 We don't know. God doesn't tell us everything, so we 1374 01:23:16.960 --> 01:23:18.920 can't sit around speculating try to figure it out. 1375 01:23:20.720 --> 01:23:24.560 Okay, we got a question, which is actually four questions 1376 01:23:25.159 --> 01:23:27.880 from a Muslim, so we'll just go one by one. 1377 01:23:28.600 --> 01:23:31.880 So how come the trinity is hard to explain when 1378 01:23:32.079 --> 01:23:36.600 the Bible says in First Corinthians fourteen thirty three that 1379 01:23:36.840 --> 01:23:38.840 God is not the author of introdusion. 1380 01:23:39.560 --> 01:23:43.439 Okay, so just because Paul says God's not the author 1381 01:23:43.479 --> 01:23:45.399 of confusion, if you look at the context, he's talking 1382 01:23:45.399 --> 01:23:47.800 about people who were being riotous in the church. He's 1383 01:23:47.840 --> 01:23:51.119 not talking about theology. Paul talks in many places about 1384 01:23:51.199 --> 01:23:55.680 difficult theological writings. In fact, Peter even says Paul's writings 1385 01:23:55.720 --> 01:24:01.600 are difficult, so difficult and meat Hebrews calls doctrine. That's me. 1386 01:24:01.800 --> 01:24:04.920 It's not the same thing as confusion. The confusion that 1387 01:24:05.000 --> 01:24:08.680 Corinthians is talking about is people getting drunk, people committing fornication, 1388 01:24:08.800 --> 01:24:11.840 people not taking the Lord's Supper seriously in all manner 1389 01:24:11.960 --> 01:24:16.079 of you know, it sounds like a Protestant charismatic service 1390 01:24:16.119 --> 01:24:18.560 that Paul is rebuking, right. I mean, he's saying, you 1391 01:24:18.600 --> 01:24:21.640 guys are acting like looms here, flopping around, acting crazy, 1392 01:24:21.960 --> 01:24:24.399 doing all kinds of nonsense. That's the confusions. He's not 1393 01:24:24.520 --> 01:24:29.640 saying that there's no difficult theology. Your own Muslim schools 1394 01:24:29.680 --> 01:24:32.520 of philosophy are difficult. So that's a terrible argument. 1395 01:24:34.960 --> 01:24:35.840 Yeah, I'd also. 1396 01:24:35.680 --> 01:24:37.760 Say, if you're interested in I just want to add 1397 01:24:37.880 --> 01:24:41.159 is check out the videos I did with bo on 1398 01:24:41.239 --> 01:24:47.039 the Trinity, because I think the current sort of popular 1399 01:24:47.600 --> 01:24:51.640 Eganitarian or social Trinitarian view where the divine essence is, 1400 01:24:51.920 --> 01:24:55.399 you know, God, is the problem that a lot of 1401 01:24:55.479 --> 01:24:58.479 Muslims might end up having. So we need to reinstate 1402 01:24:58.600 --> 01:25:01.279 the doctrine of the monarchia of the Father and the 1403 01:25:01.479 --> 01:25:05.000 energies absolutely because if you go by Cappadocian theology, they 1404 01:25:05.159 --> 01:25:08.680 absolutely reject. I mean, I'm sure if your listening Muslims, 1405 01:25:08.720 --> 01:25:11.239 you know you're here that you know, oh yeah, well 1406 01:25:11.319 --> 01:25:13.680 so there's the you know, there's the nature, and that's God. 1407 01:25:13.800 --> 01:25:16.039 And then because all the persons participate in that, well 1408 01:25:16.079 --> 01:25:18.359 that's how we we call why we call them God. 1409 01:25:18.479 --> 01:25:21.800 But the whole, the whole premise of the Cappadocians who 1410 01:25:22.199 --> 01:25:25.039 did to basically fleshed out the Trinitarian theology was to 1411 01:25:25.199 --> 01:25:27.840 just absolutely deny that you could predicate any name of 1412 01:25:27.880 --> 01:25:33.239 the divinessence, including God or anything. Okay, so that's not yeah, 1413 01:25:33.720 --> 01:25:36.239 yeah no, So just check out the just check out 1414 01:25:36.279 --> 01:25:39.560 the videos I did with both at Orthodox you had us. 1415 01:25:40.039 --> 01:25:42.560 Just go over to my community tab on my channel 1416 01:25:42.640 --> 01:25:44.720 right there, the community tab, and if you look at 1417 01:25:44.760 --> 01:25:48.439 the first one there, David has a three hour lecture 1418 01:25:48.520 --> 01:25:51.520 on Mayaphi site. So there's the answer to the myophasite question. 1419 01:25:51.600 --> 01:25:53.960 Scroll down a little bit and I have a one 1420 01:25:54.039 --> 01:25:57.840 hour talk from two days ago with al Fadi on 1421 01:25:58.159 --> 01:26:00.600 the monarchy of the Father. So it's all it's all 1422 01:26:00.680 --> 01:26:02.960 right there, or you can go to. 1423 01:26:03.000 --> 01:26:08.800 My twenty four hour talk hours. By the way, guys, 1424 01:26:08.880 --> 01:26:12.239 I'm gonna I need. I want to say what a blessing, 1425 01:26:12.520 --> 01:26:18.600 my prayers to you all and great questions and thank 1426 01:26:18.680 --> 01:26:21.880 you Jay Lewis so Bros. 1427 01:26:23.560 --> 01:26:25.479 Thank you, Father. Well, I'm still here. We got we 1428 01:26:25.560 --> 01:26:27.319 got our largest crowd yet, We're right. 1429 01:26:27.640 --> 01:26:29.119 Yeah, I just I just wanted to bow out in 1430 01:26:29.199 --> 01:26:32.239 case there of questions directed at me. Okay, I'm sure 1431 01:26:32.279 --> 01:26:33.600 you guys will be fine to answer that. 1432 01:26:33.880 --> 01:26:36.399 I'll put Father Deacon in and eye. I'll put everybody's 1433 01:26:36.479 --> 01:26:39.039 channels below as well. When the stream is done, so 1434 01:26:39.079 --> 01:26:41.000 I'll be sure and follow Father Deacon and then they'll 1435 01:26:41.039 --> 01:26:44.560 have Lewis and Kai and everybody's snacks stuff too. So 1436 01:26:45.600 --> 01:26:49.239 David as well, Thank you, Father, appreciate that absolutely. 1437 01:26:49.319 --> 01:26:50.760 David. Yeah, O cool. 1438 01:26:50.800 --> 01:26:54.279 Thanks to see if other from this, let's try let's 1439 01:26:54.359 --> 01:26:55.960 keep trailblazing through these Muslim questions. 1440 01:26:56.000 --> 01:26:58.920 Yeah, can you explain why the Trinity is not in 1441 01:26:59.039 --> 01:27:02.119 the Old Testament and why it was only reviewed during 1442 01:27:02.239 --> 01:27:03.680 Jesus's missionary. 1443 01:27:05.439 --> 01:27:07.760 Like every debate and topic that we've had on this 1444 01:27:07.880 --> 01:27:10.640 top on this question is arguing the Trinity from the 1445 01:27:10.680 --> 01:27:14.479 Old Testament. So first of all, go look at all 1446 01:27:14.520 --> 01:27:17.600 the things that we've done to date, every time that 1447 01:27:17.720 --> 01:27:20.920 I've had a discussion with Sam, with any the whole 1448 01:27:20.960 --> 01:27:23.840 list that I put up on the whiteboard, it's all 1449 01:27:24.039 --> 01:27:27.880 the Theophanes of the Old Testament. That's the Trinity. Okay, Father, Son, 1450 01:27:27.960 --> 01:27:30.520 and Spirit are all over the Old Testament, so go 1451 01:27:30.680 --> 01:27:33.239 watch those and you'll see where I cover all the 1452 01:27:33.319 --> 01:27:37.039 Theophanes in Genesis. This is a personage separate from the 1453 01:27:37.119 --> 01:27:40.279 person of the Father, who's given worship, who's given the 1454 01:27:40.319 --> 01:27:43.479 divine name, who's called the Redeemer, who's called Yahweh, who's 1455 01:27:43.520 --> 01:27:46.239 called the Lord, he's called God, he's called all of 1456 01:27:46.319 --> 01:27:49.640 these things consistently. Right, I've done many, many talks. I 1457 01:27:50.079 --> 01:27:52.960 have a whole stream on the Theophanes and and the 1458 01:27:53.039 --> 01:27:55.239 Trinity in the Old Testament. Just a stream on that 1459 01:27:55.359 --> 01:27:58.000 you can go watch. That is Jesus God is the 1460 01:27:58.079 --> 01:28:01.319 Trinity Biblical. That's whole stream against rocking mister e And 1461 01:28:01.520 --> 01:28:04.600 all I do is argue at this point, read Zechariah one. 1462 01:28:05.159 --> 01:28:10.000 There you'll see Father, Redeemer, Angel, the Lord, and Spirit. 1463 01:28:10.520 --> 01:28:12.399 If you read the book of Isaiah. I just did 1464 01:28:12.439 --> 01:28:14.319 a talk on Isaiah, and I talked about the many 1465 01:28:14.359 --> 01:28:17.960 instances where you find the triad in Isaiah. So the 1466 01:28:18.159 --> 01:28:22.640 doctrine of the Trinity as explicated by the Cappadocians and 1467 01:28:22.760 --> 01:28:27.159 the Niceno Constantopolitan Creed is not in the Old Testament, 1468 01:28:27.279 --> 01:28:30.319 because we believe in redemptive history that there is a 1469 01:28:30.800 --> 01:28:34.560 period where there's a coming of the Church that completes 1470 01:28:34.840 --> 01:28:37.880 the fulfillments of the prophecies of the Old Testament. So 1471 01:28:38.079 --> 01:28:43.279 obviously the life of the Messiah is not going to 1472 01:28:43.319 --> 01:28:46.119 be present in its full form prior to the coming 1473 01:28:46.199 --> 01:28:49.600 of the Messiah. Obviously the prophecies of Isaiah are not 1474 01:28:49.680 --> 01:28:53.239 going to be present prior to Isaiah. So that's like saying, 1475 01:28:53.720 --> 01:28:57.079 why isn't the fulfillment of all these things there before 1476 01:28:57.079 --> 01:29:00.159 the fulfillment? It doesn't make any sense because of the 1477 01:29:00.239 --> 01:29:04.920 progression of progressive revelation, redemptive history, and the fulfillment of 1478 01:29:04.960 --> 01:29:09.600 these things when the Messiah comes. So obviously, look, that's like, look, 1479 01:29:09.720 --> 01:29:13.199 there's not a full fledged, full revelation in the sense 1480 01:29:13.279 --> 01:29:17.239 of what Isaiah has in the time of Abraham. Right, 1481 01:29:18.199 --> 01:29:20.800 does does Abraham know as much as Isaiah? 1482 01:29:21.000 --> 01:29:21.039 No? 1483 01:29:21.760 --> 01:29:26.439 Obviously would we therefore conclude from that that Isaiah is 1484 01:29:26.680 --> 01:29:30.399 false because it's not fully revealed in Abraham's day all 1485 01:29:30.439 --> 01:29:33.199 the things that Isaiah said. Of course, not so in 1486 01:29:33.279 --> 01:29:36.880 the same way, just because not everything that's fully revealing 1487 01:29:36.880 --> 01:29:39.800 in the New Testament is not present in the Old Testament. 1488 01:29:39.920 --> 01:29:42.520 We don't cancel it out. That's just presupposing that we're 1489 01:29:42.560 --> 01:29:45.279 not the fulfillment, but we are the fulfillment. That's the 1490 01:29:45.319 --> 01:29:48.439 point here, right. The New Testament is the fulfillment of 1491 01:29:48.600 --> 01:29:51.760 what the Old Testament is. Looking forward to countless Old 1492 01:29:51.800 --> 01:29:54.640 Testament prophecy. How many times does it say the gentiles 1493 01:29:54.920 --> 01:29:57.439 will be brought into the Covenant, that they will be 1494 01:29:57.640 --> 01:30:01.000 worshiping the God of Israel, and that when the Gentiles 1495 01:30:01.039 --> 01:30:03.399 begin to convert in mass, that's when you'll know the 1496 01:30:03.479 --> 01:30:05.520 Messiah has come. And what do you know, when Jesus 1497 01:30:05.640 --> 01:30:10.960 comes suddenly entire Gentile nations for centuries, for millennia converting. Obviously, 1498 01:30:11.079 --> 01:30:14.399 Jesus is the Messiah. So this kind of Muslim argument 1499 01:30:14.600 --> 01:30:17.720 just is based on ignorance about our theology and the 1500 01:30:18.680 --> 01:30:22.000 notion of the completion of the Old Testament prophecies in 1501 01:30:22.119 --> 01:30:22.920 the person of Christ. 1502 01:30:24.520 --> 01:30:27.039 Can I add to that, guy I Chris here he 1503 01:30:27.560 --> 01:30:30.840 can add as well, is the we have to really 1504 01:30:30.880 --> 01:30:33.439 consider also that even in Islam there's a development of 1505 01:30:33.479 --> 01:30:38.560 the theology of God over debates for centuries after the Qur'an. 1506 01:30:39.800 --> 01:30:41.800 I don't know, you may not. Whoever asked a question 1507 01:30:41.920 --> 01:30:43.960 may not be familiar with this, but there ends up 1508 01:30:44.039 --> 01:30:51.079 being a very specific formulation of what attributes there are, 1509 01:30:51.279 --> 01:30:55.159 what an attribute is, what constitutes an attribute, how they 1510 01:30:55.279 --> 01:30:58.479 relate to creation, whether or not, how they relate to 1511 01:30:58.560 --> 01:31:01.560 the essence of God, and those are very precise, and 1512 01:31:01.640 --> 01:31:04.479 they're not contained in that in their formulation of as 1513 01:31:04.560 --> 01:31:08.920 part of Klam philosophy inside the inside the Qur'an, but 1514 01:31:09.000 --> 01:31:12.520 they are still required believing for people who are part 1515 01:31:12.560 --> 01:31:14.760 of those schools. So I don't know if you're if 1516 01:31:14.800 --> 01:31:17.720 you're a Salafie, but that's mainstream Synism anyway. 1517 01:31:17.960 --> 01:31:20.199 Yeah, but as we see every time we get into 1518 01:31:20.239 --> 01:31:22.840 this kind of argument, it's moved the goalposts. Right, Oh 1519 01:31:22.920 --> 01:31:24.239 that's the case for you, but not for me. 1520 01:31:29.439 --> 01:31:35.880 But in all fairness, if I can just must yeah, yeah. 1521 01:31:36.359 --> 01:31:42.199 Muslims in the majority, they are even just completey ignorant 1522 01:31:42.399 --> 01:31:45.840 of their own traditions, and so they don't even know 1523 01:31:46.159 --> 01:31:51.399 that there was this development within Islam itself. They are 1524 01:31:51.840 --> 01:31:55.640 typically of a mindset like that Islam is has been 1525 01:31:55.760 --> 01:32:00.159 static for fourteen hundred years, that it was revealed and 1526 01:32:00.600 --> 01:32:05.319 hasn't changed one bit, and so they just either there's 1527 01:32:05.359 --> 01:32:08.760 just a dumbfounded when you start encountering them on this, 1528 01:32:08.920 --> 01:32:10.119 and then they'll just start making up. 1529 01:32:10.119 --> 01:32:13.640 Excuses and this and that, switching positions. Yeah. 1530 01:32:15.119 --> 01:32:18.720 Yeah, it's just important to note that, you know, if 1531 01:32:18.760 --> 01:32:22.279 you want to, you know, we're happy to say, for 1532 01:32:22.359 --> 01:32:25.159 the sake of debate, if you're willing to accept that 1533 01:32:25.199 --> 01:32:27.880 our scriptures hold our core doctrines, then we're happy to 1534 01:32:28.000 --> 01:32:31.159 accept that the Quran holds the you know, the specific 1535 01:32:32.399 --> 01:32:35.479 like ashari or matter ready formulation for the sake of debate. 1536 01:32:35.600 --> 01:32:38.239 But you know, if you're going to use that argument, 1537 01:32:38.319 --> 01:32:40.640 you know that the trinity that even the hardware or 1538 01:32:40.720 --> 01:32:43.560 as Jay use, the analogy of the gems, the the 1539 01:32:43.880 --> 01:32:47.279 or the raw or of the trinity isn't in the 1540 01:32:47.359 --> 01:32:50.479 biblical text. Then you know, we're just going to say that, 1541 01:32:50.840 --> 01:32:54.439 you know that the attribute specific attribute theology isn't there 1542 01:32:54.479 --> 01:32:55.399 in the Quran. 1543 01:32:55.199 --> 01:33:01.279 Either, right exactly? Yeah, excellent point. How chicken baby five 1544 01:33:01.359 --> 01:33:06.159 dollars can you explain the Trinity? For NWBS? There is 1545 01:33:06.239 --> 01:33:10.119 an eight minute video that somebody clipped where I did 1546 01:33:10.520 --> 01:33:13.039 this kind of an explanation of the Trinity. I think 1547 01:33:13.159 --> 01:33:17.600 it's on this Institium Bourbum website or channel. I'll post that, 1548 01:33:17.840 --> 01:33:21.840 but basically, we believe on the basis of what's in 1549 01:33:22.039 --> 01:33:24.640 revelation what the Trinity is right, so it's not sitting 1550 01:33:24.680 --> 01:33:28.439 around and philosophically speculating. Primarily that gives us the doctor 1551 01:33:28.479 --> 01:33:31.000 of the Trinity at scripture. So the Old Testament reveals 1552 01:33:31.439 --> 01:33:35.479 God the Father, and God the Father has this secondary 1553 01:33:36.680 --> 01:33:40.239 person that he generates that is the Angel of the Lord, 1554 01:33:40.359 --> 01:33:42.560 that is the Messenger of the Covenant, that is the 1555 01:33:42.640 --> 01:33:46.560 Angel Redeemer. In the Old Testament, there's many, many, many passages. 1556 01:33:46.640 --> 01:33:49.840 Again I've gone over this many many times, and that 1557 01:33:51.319 --> 01:33:53.680 Angel of the Lord so to speak, is revealed to 1558 01:33:53.800 --> 01:33:57.319 be fully divine right and eventually revealed as the Son 1559 01:33:57.359 --> 01:33:59.560 of God. We say so, we say that that is 1560 01:33:59.680 --> 01:34:02.479 Jesus right, because Jesus the Trinity has always been there. 1561 01:34:02.520 --> 01:34:05.800 It's always been who God is. It didn't change or 1562 01:34:05.840 --> 01:34:09.119 become three gods or something like this. It's always been Father, Son, 1563 01:34:09.159 --> 01:34:12.800 and Spirit. But the full revelation of that was progressive. 1564 01:34:13.239 --> 01:34:17.760 Now even in Judaism there's progressive revelation. Again, they don't 1565 01:34:17.760 --> 01:34:22.199 believe that Isaiah or excuse me, in the time of Abraham, 1566 01:34:22.439 --> 01:34:25.319 that you know, Abraham knew as much as Isaiah would 1567 01:34:25.399 --> 01:34:27.479 know or Malachi or any of the later prophets right, 1568 01:34:27.520 --> 01:34:31.720 because there's more revelation that comes via the Spirit of 1569 01:34:31.760 --> 01:34:36.079 God speaking through the Old Testament prophets. So this revelation 1570 01:34:36.279 --> 01:34:39.479 is progressive. It never contradicts previous revelation. But it's very 1571 01:34:39.560 --> 01:34:43.439 clear in again dozens and dozens and dozens of passages 1572 01:34:43.479 --> 01:34:46.880 in the Old Testament that it's not just a strict 1573 01:34:47.199 --> 01:34:50.439 Father God. There's also this Angel of the Lord, this 1574 01:34:50.960 --> 01:34:55.680 theophanic manifestation that wrestles with Jacob, that speaks to Manoah's parents, 1575 01:34:55.760 --> 01:34:58.520 that goes to battle for the Israelites, that's present in 1576 01:34:59.119 --> 01:35:03.720 the the burning bush right, that appears to David, even 1577 01:35:03.880 --> 01:35:08.119 in the historical books, that appears over the altar of Israel, 1578 01:35:08.960 --> 01:35:11.000 the cloud, the pillar, over and over and over. We 1579 01:35:11.079 --> 01:35:14.079 see this stuff throughout the Old Testament. Ezekiel sees, and 1580 01:35:14.159 --> 01:35:17.319 Ezekiel one, and Ezekiel ten, Ezekiel one, and Ezigel nine 1581 01:35:17.359 --> 01:35:19.920 and ten. This wheel and then in the midst of 1582 01:35:20.239 --> 01:35:22.840 this chariot that he sees is one like the son 1583 01:35:22.880 --> 01:35:25.000 of Man. That's the same one like a son of 1584 01:35:25.039 --> 01:35:28.279 Man that Daniel sees right in his vision in Daniel seven. 1585 01:35:28.359 --> 01:35:31.359 It's the same that's what we're saying, that's all we're saying. Now, 1586 01:35:31.880 --> 01:35:36.039 that's Father, that's son, and spirit. Spirit is mentioned many times, right, 1587 01:35:36.119 --> 01:35:39.479 It's mentioned in Genesis, it's mentioned in Zechariah one, it's 1588 01:35:39.520 --> 01:35:43.119 mentioned in Isaiah. So we consistently see in many, even 1589 01:35:43.279 --> 01:35:47.399 in many chapters of Isaiah, this triadic manifestation of Father, 1590 01:35:48.000 --> 01:35:51.359 Angel of the Lord, Messenger's son, and the Spirit of 1591 01:35:51.399 --> 01:35:53.199 the Lord. The Spirit of the Lord does this spirit. 1592 01:35:53.479 --> 01:35:55.359 So how is the Spirit of the Lord doing this 1593 01:35:55.479 --> 01:36:00.720 and that and yet also being distinguished from Father and Messenger, 1594 01:36:00.800 --> 01:36:04.319 Angel of the Lord logos. Well, because there's three persons. 1595 01:36:05.000 --> 01:36:07.039 And when we get to the New Testament, which again 1596 01:36:07.079 --> 01:36:10.800 we're saying, is the fulfillments, the full explanation and explication 1597 01:36:11.079 --> 01:36:15.960 of the Old Testament, there's not a discontinuity. It's continuity. Right. 1598 01:36:16.000 --> 01:36:18.680 When we see Jesus in the Book of John, especially 1599 01:36:18.800 --> 01:36:20.319 not just the Book of John, but in the Book 1600 01:36:20.319 --> 01:36:25.039 of John right fourteen, sixteen seventeen, he goes into linky 1601 01:36:25.119 --> 01:36:29.079 explanations of the relationship between him and the Father and 1602 01:36:29.279 --> 01:36:33.760 the Spirit who he will send. So it's imperfect. When 1603 01:36:33.800 --> 01:36:37.159 you are really fluent in the Old Testament, you see 1604 01:36:37.199 --> 01:36:40.840 it everywhere it's like it's a no brainer. It's like, well, yeah, 1605 01:36:40.920 --> 01:36:42.399 this is everywhere in the Old Testament. What are you 1606 01:36:42.439 --> 01:36:46.399 talking about? So the fact that modern day Jews debate 1607 01:36:46.520 --> 01:36:51.079 over this is really irrelevant to our position. It doesn't 1608 01:36:51.079 --> 01:36:53.600 mean anything. I mean, it's just relevant in the sense 1609 01:36:53.640 --> 01:36:56.000 that it's like an academic you know, dispute or whatever. 1610 01:36:56.079 --> 01:36:59.840 But to our theology, it doesn't matter because we don't 1611 01:36:59.880 --> 01:37:04.000 have the same theology as modern Judaism obviously. I mean, 1612 01:37:04.039 --> 01:37:08.319 you see rabbinical debates after you know, the the first 1613 01:37:08.439 --> 01:37:11.960 century with Judaism and Christianity part ways. When you get 1614 01:37:12.000 --> 01:37:15.000 the eventually the different talmuds that are that are put together, 1615 01:37:15.920 --> 01:37:20.000 you see debates amongst rabbis over what these Theophanes are, 1616 01:37:20.520 --> 01:37:22.199 you know, is it the essence of God? Is it 1617 01:37:22.279 --> 01:37:25.000 a second manifestation of God? Is it an emanation? Is 1618 01:37:25.079 --> 01:37:27.960 it uh, some sort of angelic metatron being? 1619 01:37:28.159 --> 01:37:28.439 Is it this? 1620 01:37:28.680 --> 01:37:28.960 Is it that? 1621 01:37:29.520 --> 01:37:31.600 Is it a hologram an angel? Right, so they have 1622 01:37:31.840 --> 01:37:35.840 the same debates right going on that we will see 1623 01:37:35.840 --> 01:37:38.520 when we bring this topic up. Right, It's an echo 1624 01:37:38.680 --> 01:37:41.880 of the debate that that Justin Martyr has with Tripho. 1625 01:37:43.039 --> 01:37:45.279 What does Justin mart keep going to the Angel of 1626 01:37:45.319 --> 01:37:48.479 the Lord. Right, Why is the Angel Lord given worship? 1627 01:37:49.279 --> 01:37:55.720 Only God can be worshiped anyway. So the easiest way 1628 01:37:55.800 --> 01:37:58.239 to start with the Trinity is I got lost in 1629 01:37:58.279 --> 01:38:00.479 that explanation. But these way to start with this is 1630 01:38:00.560 --> 01:38:02.840 to start with the Bible. Right, So we're not because 1631 01:38:02.840 --> 01:38:06.159 we're not basing this on philosophy like oh the you know, 1632 01:38:06.279 --> 01:38:08.119 I sat around and I read a bunch of Plato, 1633 01:38:08.159 --> 01:38:10.159 and I figured out, you know, based on number theory, 1634 01:38:10.239 --> 01:38:12.640 that now there are analogies that you can make to 1635 01:38:12.800 --> 01:38:15.279 numbers and this kind of stuff. Think about one to 1636 01:38:15.359 --> 01:38:19.119 the third power, right, that's one thing and three things 1637 01:38:19.159 --> 01:38:21.399 at the same time. Think about the number three. It's 1638 01:38:22.039 --> 01:38:24.319 singular and it's also triadic at once. 1639 01:38:24.520 --> 01:38:24.600 Right. 1640 01:38:24.640 --> 01:38:26.800 I Mean, there's all kinds of things in the world 1641 01:38:26.920 --> 01:38:29.920 that do have a one and many aspects to them 1642 01:38:30.000 --> 01:38:33.680 that the church fathers frequently make usage of to demonstrate 1643 01:38:33.920 --> 01:38:36.680 a one many relationship that's analogous to God, not a 1644 01:38:36.720 --> 01:38:39.680 one to one correspondent's been an analogy. They do it 1645 01:38:39.720 --> 01:38:43.880 all the time. They do mind, will and soul right 1646 01:38:44.079 --> 01:38:48.159 or spirit as an analogy, on on and on. So 1647 01:38:48.239 --> 01:38:50.560 there's all kinds of things that are analogous to something 1648 01:38:50.640 --> 01:38:56.439 being one and many. But there's no perfect creaturely analog 1649 01:38:56.760 --> 01:38:59.920 or one to one correspondence to God because God may 1650 01:39:00.199 --> 01:39:04.640 the creatures, and so by definition God being infinite, being omniscient, etc. 1651 01:39:05.119 --> 01:39:07.359 There's never going to be anything that perfectly matches up 1652 01:39:07.399 --> 01:39:11.199 to God. So that's why we're talking about on one level, 1653 01:39:11.279 --> 01:39:14.720 a revelation for us that is kind of the final authority. 1654 01:39:15.520 --> 01:39:17.479 But that doesn't mean that it's out of accord with 1655 01:39:17.680 --> 01:39:21.079 logic or reasoning or these kinds of things. Because the 1656 01:39:21.199 --> 01:39:25.520 created world and the logic and the principles of logic, numbers, math, 1657 01:39:25.640 --> 01:39:28.880 whatever that God has put into place in the created order, 1658 01:39:29.399 --> 01:39:32.439 they do bear some correspondence to the mind of God. 1659 01:39:33.279 --> 01:39:35.319 And so there can be at one at a certain 1660 01:39:35.399 --> 01:39:39.399 level and analogia analogies that are made, but we don't 1661 01:39:39.479 --> 01:39:42.600 do a one to one correspondence as if the number 1662 01:39:42.680 --> 01:39:46.680 one is equal to God's unity. God's unity is not 1663 01:39:46.800 --> 01:39:49.239 identical to the number one. The number one is a 1664 01:39:49.359 --> 01:39:50.279 created concept. 1665 01:39:54.840 --> 01:39:58.920 Next mism question, Okay, so this is or from the 1666 01:39:58.960 --> 01:39:59.359 same guy. 1667 01:40:00.079 --> 01:40:04.479 The next not mind memory boring questions, So do you 1668 01:40:04.560 --> 01:40:07.600 believe the Bible is preserved or even a trustworthy document 1669 01:40:07.680 --> 01:40:09.720 about the life of Jesus and his teachings. 1670 01:40:10.319 --> 01:40:13.079 Absolutely, we have we have to believe that. I mean 1671 01:40:13.119 --> 01:40:15.479 that the doctrine of the inspirational Scriptures is part of 1672 01:40:15.560 --> 01:40:19.359 our dogmatic theology. There's no church father who denies that. 1673 01:40:20.560 --> 01:40:23.199 Yeah, the next part and then thank God, we can 1674 01:40:23.279 --> 01:40:25.760 move on. He says, if you have Okay, So he's 1675 01:40:25.760 --> 01:40:27.720 posing necessarily. 1676 01:40:27.359 --> 01:40:29.279 If the Bible, if we believe it is not preserved, 1677 01:40:29.359 --> 01:40:30.720 you don't need we don't need to ask that one. 1678 01:40:31.880 --> 01:40:33.039 Yeah, I think we'll just skip that. 1679 01:40:33.199 --> 01:40:36.119 I mean he said, he said, he said, if you 1680 01:40:36.239 --> 01:40:39.079 accept the Bible is not preserved, the question for but 1681 01:40:39.359 --> 01:40:41.159 we we accept as preserved. 1682 01:40:41.199 --> 01:40:44.079 I mean there's yeah, we don't accept that premise. 1683 01:40:44.159 --> 01:40:48.560 So yeah, it's dumb. Okay. It's like saying, can you 1684 01:40:48.680 --> 01:40:50.439 imagine infinity? 1685 01:40:50.600 --> 01:40:55.279 Could you imagine a well, where's that? Imagine a universe? 1686 01:40:55.479 --> 01:40:59.079 Was there is a planet with a computer and no gun? 1687 01:41:00.960 --> 01:41:01.600 The quant. 1688 01:41:03.680 --> 01:41:07.640 Yeah, if you have the machine else maybe they can 1689 01:41:07.720 --> 01:41:08.760 take chill infinity. 1690 01:41:09.800 --> 01:41:11.239 Uh okay. 1691 01:41:11.319 --> 01:41:14.159 Next, is is there any good Orthodox books that deal 1692 01:41:14.239 --> 01:41:16.319 with Buddhism or Eastern religions? 1693 01:41:16.520 --> 01:41:19.479 Does Saint Nicholas in Japan have any books on this subject? 1694 01:41:20.119 --> 01:41:22.800 Orthodoxy in the religion the future deals with the far 1695 01:41:22.840 --> 01:41:26.880 Eastern religions. The now of Christ deals with the Eastern religions. 1696 01:41:28.079 --> 01:41:32.560 Yeah, and that's what I mean, Baba seraph and rises 1697 01:41:32.640 --> 01:41:33.760 biography has. 1698 01:41:33.680 --> 01:41:35.640 Some good stuff in that. 1699 01:41:36.079 --> 01:41:40.840 The easiest, the easiest response is just orthodoxy in the 1700 01:41:40.880 --> 01:41:43.920 religion in the future, because he's he's talking about Hinduism. 1701 01:41:44.039 --> 01:41:45.880 But I mean that's kind of encompasses all of them. 1702 01:41:45.880 --> 01:41:51.039 Really, Okay, does the Guru, the young man, and older 1703 01:41:51.079 --> 01:41:58.720 parties right humans? Yes? 1704 01:42:01.640 --> 01:42:01.960 Okay. 1705 01:42:02.880 --> 01:42:07.239 Does Islam have a one and many problem? For example, 1706 01:42:07.359 --> 01:42:09.560 if truth is one in many, how can the Islamic 1707 01:42:09.600 --> 01:42:13.640 God be the metaphysical metaphysical condition for the multiplicity of 1708 01:42:13.800 --> 01:42:17.800 unity of truth itself when Allah is without multiplicity in 1709 01:42:17.920 --> 01:42:18.319 his being? 1710 01:42:19.319 --> 01:42:22.600 Yes, exactly. I mean that's an argument I've been making 1711 01:42:23.039 --> 01:42:27.279 sure well stated. 1712 01:42:28.720 --> 01:42:33.199 The mainstream Sunny position has more multiplicity in God than 1713 01:42:33.399 --> 01:42:39.720 the Motazila Ads position that was rejected by mainstream Studdyism. 1714 01:42:41.600 --> 01:42:41.760 Yeah. 1715 01:42:41.800 --> 01:42:43.720 And I mean, even though there's all these different schools 1716 01:42:44.479 --> 01:42:48.439 because of the you know, emphasis on the transcendence of 1717 01:42:48.479 --> 01:42:50.960 God in Islam, I don't think you're going to ever 1718 01:42:51.039 --> 01:42:54.319 get a really sufficient coherent answer to that problem. So 1719 01:42:54.520 --> 01:42:57.960 there's always going to be the assumption of unicity as 1720 01:42:58.079 --> 01:43:06.279 metaphysically a ontologically prior or primary or superior. So they 1721 01:43:06.359 --> 01:43:12.000 can't really do justice to uh distinctions or multiplicity. And 1722 01:43:12.079 --> 01:43:14.760 by the way, it doesn't matter if they admit that 1723 01:43:16.319 --> 01:43:19.319 as well. But we don't have three persons and so therefore, 1724 01:43:19.479 --> 01:43:23.039 but the same problem arises with the attributes or the 1725 01:43:23.399 --> 01:43:26.079 actions of Allah. The same problem is still there. 1726 01:43:29.920 --> 01:43:31.039 Okay. Yeah. 1727 01:43:31.079 --> 01:43:33.520 That was one of the Jewish and Metazula critiques of 1728 01:43:33.600 --> 01:43:35.920 the Asheri and mat Ready position was that it was 1729 01:43:36.000 --> 01:43:38.640 too Christian because you believed in like they believed in, 1730 01:43:38.840 --> 01:43:41.239 you know, subsistent attributes that weren't Allah. 1731 01:43:42.039 --> 01:43:44.840 Mm hmm. The problem that. 1732 01:43:48.960 --> 01:43:51.560 We can't hear you. You have to speak up, you're 1733 01:43:51.560 --> 01:43:52.000 really low. 1734 01:43:54.159 --> 01:43:57.760 God has to be absolutely unique, which makes it difficult 1735 01:43:57.800 --> 01:44:00.760 when you up at the group of. 1736 01:44:00.760 --> 01:44:05.680 God such with life that are probably showed by Greek. 1737 01:44:06.960 --> 01:44:08.680 Yeah, there's no analogy in that position. 1738 01:44:08.800 --> 01:44:11.239 Yeah, the one of the many problem meticods very clearly. 1739 01:44:15.039 --> 01:44:20.560 Okay, next question, I'm confused about the Christian explanation of suffering, 1740 01:44:20.680 --> 01:44:23.159 and I'm hopeful that the Orthodox view can offer a 1741 01:44:23.239 --> 01:44:26.640 more compelling explanation than the Protestant one, How did sin 1742 01:44:27.079 --> 01:44:29.880 have the effect of changing the fabric of reality from 1743 01:44:29.920 --> 01:44:33.560 the perfect pre false state to the current state after 1744 01:44:33.720 --> 01:44:36.640 the fall, so as to introduce suffering to the world. 1745 01:44:37.079 --> 01:44:39.399 It seems like the laws of physics themselves are in 1746 01:44:40.199 --> 01:44:44.079 are inhospitable to human life and course suffering. Example, a 1747 01:44:44.239 --> 01:44:46.640 rock can fall on one's head while walking under a cliff, 1748 01:44:47.000 --> 01:44:51.399 and this seems to be entirely causally disconnected from man's 1749 01:44:51.479 --> 01:44:55.920 sinful nature. How is sin connected with altering the laws 1750 01:44:55.960 --> 01:44:57.279 of physics post fall? 1751 01:45:00.079 --> 01:45:01.840 If you want, if you're asking how in the sense 1752 01:45:01.880 --> 01:45:05.199 of the mechanics, nobody knows that. If you're asking how 1753 01:45:05.319 --> 01:45:09.479 in the sense of theological revelation, well, we're told that 1754 01:45:09.600 --> 01:45:13.960 that's the case, because the entire it's not like all 1755 01:45:14.079 --> 01:45:17.880 of the fabric of reality was changed. I mean man's body. 1756 01:45:18.239 --> 01:45:22.119 We have animalistic bodies because of the fall. Right, we 1757 01:45:22.199 --> 01:45:24.840 don't know what the pre false state of man's body 1758 01:45:24.960 --> 01:45:27.399 was like. We don't know what Eden was like. But 1759 01:45:27.640 --> 01:45:32.039 all of the way the normal course of things function 1760 01:45:32.279 --> 01:45:35.840 did not have, for example, the presence of decay, the 1761 01:45:35.880 --> 01:45:38.199 presence of death. All those things were foreign to Eden, 1762 01:45:39.520 --> 01:45:41.960 and we believe it on the basis of what's revealed, right, 1763 01:45:42.119 --> 01:45:45.600 so we don't we don't have to have an explanation 1764 01:45:45.720 --> 01:45:49.199 of the mechanics of exactly what, you know, the chemical 1765 01:45:49.239 --> 01:45:51.960 reactions that occurred when the fall happened. I mean, nobody's 1766 01:45:52.000 --> 01:45:56.000 ever going to know that. So, but whether there is 1767 01:45:56.079 --> 01:46:00.880 a connection between death and events to the natural world 1768 01:46:01.000 --> 01:46:03.840 and man sin, we believe it on the basis of revelation. 1769 01:46:06.159 --> 01:46:09.279 Yeah, I also like that that is a very high 1770 01:46:09.399 --> 01:46:12.960 IQ way of asking the question, if God real, why 1771 01:46:13.079 --> 01:46:17.600 bad things happened? It was Yeah, very high IQ. 1772 01:46:18.000 --> 01:46:22.079 But the same question Chris says for thirteen dollars and 1773 01:46:22.199 --> 01:46:24.800 nine cents, God bless you for your work. Well, thank you, Chris, 1774 01:46:24.920 --> 01:46:25.880 much appreciated for that. 1775 01:46:32.039 --> 01:46:37.319 Okay, trying to find guys, please don't clutter it with 1776 01:46:37.479 --> 01:46:40.600 your like Jay's answering questions, not you. 1777 01:46:40.720 --> 01:46:44.880 Guys, So please don't clutter it with your answers. Okay, 1778 01:46:46.159 --> 01:46:48.000 where can someone from a. 1779 01:46:48.039 --> 01:46:53.680 Schismatic Apostolic church find out where they differ specifically as 1780 01:46:53.760 --> 01:46:56.760 in the reason why they are considered outside of the church. 1781 01:46:58.640 --> 01:47:01.319 I mean, I guess that would depend on what schismatic 1782 01:47:01.399 --> 01:47:05.760 episode church you're talking about. That I mean, you're asking 1783 01:47:05.880 --> 01:47:08.560 me where to find out how your church differs. I 1784 01:47:08.600 --> 01:47:09.640 don't understand the question. 1785 01:47:11.319 --> 01:47:15.880 Yeah, are so let's see very Antichalcedonian. 1786 01:47:16.520 --> 01:47:22.560 So I don't know what question I mean again, go 1787 01:47:22.720 --> 01:47:25.319 watch David's videos if you're looking for where we say 1788 01:47:25.680 --> 01:47:26.479 we disagree with you. 1789 01:47:28.520 --> 01:47:32.039 Yeah, David's videos are really good. The Orientals are just 1790 01:47:32.279 --> 01:47:32.920 scared of him. 1791 01:47:34.119 --> 01:47:40.920 So yeah, let's see. 1792 01:47:44.359 --> 01:47:47.880 If God is the infinite source of all being, from 1793 01:47:47.920 --> 01:47:50.640 which everything ultimately emerges, how can it. 1794 01:47:50.680 --> 01:47:53.000 Be that evil things are not from God? 1795 01:47:53.239 --> 01:47:55.000 I want to believe that God is good, but it 1796 01:47:55.039 --> 01:47:58.199 seems like I can't reconcile this with the notion of 1797 01:47:58.319 --> 01:47:59.319 God being. 1798 01:47:59.199 --> 01:48:00.520 The source of all that exists. 1799 01:48:01.720 --> 01:48:05.880 So evil has no being and no subsistent ontological status. 1800 01:48:06.079 --> 01:48:09.399 Evil is not a metaphysical reality. It's a negation, it's 1801 01:48:09.439 --> 01:48:11.840 a privation. It's a movement of the will away from 1802 01:48:11.880 --> 01:48:15.239 the good. So you will find that from the earliest 1803 01:48:15.319 --> 01:48:17.960 days of the Church up until to present day, we 1804 01:48:18.039 --> 01:48:22.199 have always explained what evil is in this way. So 1805 01:48:22.319 --> 01:48:28.079 we differ from pagan religions, from dualistic religions, Manicheanisms, or Astrianism, 1806 01:48:28.439 --> 01:48:32.119 and that we do not predicate any real existence to evil. 1807 01:48:32.600 --> 01:48:35.319 That does not mean that we're not saying there's no evil. 1808 01:48:36.000 --> 01:48:38.399 We're not saying there's no evil, we're saying that there's 1809 01:48:38.399 --> 01:48:42.960 no metaphysical, ontological status or substance to evil. Because when 1810 01:48:43.000 --> 01:48:45.960 God created the world, all that was created he said 1811 01:48:46.199 --> 01:48:50.760 was good. So being is inherently good. Being manifests the 1812 01:48:50.880 --> 01:48:54.319 quality of goodness because it's made in the image of 1813 01:48:54.479 --> 01:48:57.479 and on the basis of God's being, which is good. 1814 01:48:58.000 --> 01:49:01.159 God is good, His creation is good. It shares in 1815 01:49:01.239 --> 01:49:05.359 a participatory relationship with the goodness of God. So in 1816 01:49:05.479 --> 01:49:11.159 that way, nothing that exists or has being can be evil. 1817 01:49:11.680 --> 01:49:15.640 So what is evil, Well, evil is only a privation, 1818 01:49:16.279 --> 01:49:19.359 it is only a negation. It is only a movement 1819 01:49:19.399 --> 01:49:21.479 of the will away from the good. If we want 1820 01:49:21.479 --> 01:49:24.279 to use an analogy, we could think of something like numbers, right, 1821 01:49:24.560 --> 01:49:28.359 negative numbers. Do they have an existence? Not really? I 1822 01:49:28.439 --> 01:49:32.119 mean they're a movement away from one right, And so 1823 01:49:32.279 --> 01:49:35.479 in the same way, analogies to evil are things like darkness, 1824 01:49:36.199 --> 01:49:39.920 you know, non existence, non being. Those are the many 1825 01:49:40.039 --> 01:49:43.720 types of analogies that are used for moral evil. So 1826 01:49:43.880 --> 01:49:46.840 it's not so much a metaphysical thing as it is 1827 01:49:46.920 --> 01:49:48.079 a moral thing. 1828 01:49:50.039 --> 01:49:51.279 Would you would you agree. 1829 01:49:51.079 --> 01:49:56.479 With misstatement, like something like the lion increases in being 1830 01:49:56.640 --> 01:49:58.399 and the zebra decreases in being. 1831 01:50:00.680 --> 01:50:02.840 No, that's like when the lion kills like when the 1832 01:50:02.960 --> 01:50:04.000 lion kills. 1833 01:50:03.760 --> 01:50:08.159 The zebra some ludicrous, What do you I mean, Because. 1834 01:50:07.880 --> 01:50:10.840 That's just that's tomistic, Like it's because the lion, because 1835 01:50:10.960 --> 01:50:14.319 the lion is for its own good, the lions seeking 1836 01:50:14.359 --> 01:50:16.479 its own good and fulfilling its own good. 1837 01:50:16.520 --> 01:50:18.520 But the zebra. Obviously what's going on for the zebra 1838 01:50:18.680 --> 01:50:19.000 is bad. 1839 01:50:19.159 --> 01:50:22.680 So but that wouldn't have anything to do with their 1840 01:50:22.920 --> 01:50:25.399 their status in terms of existence itself. 1841 01:50:27.560 --> 01:50:30.039 No, yeah, but I mean in terms of just like 1842 01:50:30.279 --> 01:50:34.880 good and evil, the zebra is being privated of it's good. 1843 01:50:35.680 --> 01:50:38.399 Oh well, that's that's so. Even the Western Church makes 1844 01:50:38.479 --> 01:50:41.359 the Latins even make a distinction between different types of 1845 01:50:41.560 --> 01:50:45.520 the senses of evil. So there's a the privatory sense 1846 01:50:45.680 --> 01:50:48.199 is an analogy for the moral sense. So if we 1847 01:50:48.279 --> 01:50:51.199 say that there's you know, if I lack sight, that's 1848 01:50:51.279 --> 01:50:53.439 not the same thing as a moral evil. It's a privation. 1849 01:50:53.640 --> 01:50:57.439 I lack the faculty of eyesight, so it's a it's 1850 01:50:57.479 --> 01:51:01.760 a negation. But that's even distinguished from moral evil, which 1851 01:51:01.880 --> 01:51:04.800 is you know, when I intentionally move my will away 1852 01:51:04.840 --> 01:51:07.199 from the good to do something evil. So even the 1853 01:51:07.279 --> 01:51:08.520 Latins will distinguish that. 1854 01:51:10.960 --> 01:51:12.880 If I could just add on to that, There's one 1855 01:51:14.039 --> 01:51:18.000 egesis of Genesis that I really like in terms of 1856 01:51:18.600 --> 01:51:22.880 connecting this kind of question is if you notice Day 1857 01:51:22.960 --> 01:51:27.319 two of creation is not followed by and it was 1858 01:51:27.399 --> 01:51:32.000 good or God identifying it as good. And the one 1859 01:51:32.039 --> 01:51:34.199 thing that you can notice here is this is in 1860 01:51:34.319 --> 01:51:38.520 creation where you start seeing a separation. And so then 1861 01:51:38.840 --> 01:51:42.159 the separation would be analogous to this kind of privation 1862 01:51:42.479 --> 01:51:46.439 or moving away from God. And if you're moving away 1863 01:51:46.439 --> 01:51:49.079 from God, that is what is not good, that is 1864 01:51:50.000 --> 01:51:51.119 analogous to the sin. 1865 01:51:52.119 --> 01:51:55.720 Yeah, I mean the darkness of Genesis one is not evil, right, 1866 01:51:55.880 --> 01:52:00.359 It's some sort of you know, potentiality within creation for 1867 01:52:01.399 --> 01:52:04.560 God organizing, you know, the creative world, you know, the 1868 01:52:04.640 --> 01:52:08.640 original abyss, whatever that is. It's not inherently evil. And 1869 01:52:08.760 --> 01:52:11.880 again darkness just like just like darkness isn't evil, right. 1870 01:52:11.920 --> 01:52:14.359 I mean, scripture says you made the day, you made 1871 01:52:14.399 --> 01:52:17.880 the night, right, there's nothing wrong with with nighttime? Okay. 1872 01:52:18.159 --> 01:52:22.359 Those are just analogies to moral movement away, like when 1873 01:52:22.399 --> 01:52:24.800 we say you are far from God. Right, it's not 1874 01:52:24.920 --> 01:52:29.560 a spatiotempal relationship. It's a spiritual moral relationship. But that's 1875 01:52:29.600 --> 01:52:34.479 a good point. Kai kung pal chicken wait. Searching for 1876 01:52:34.560 --> 01:52:39.279 a dollar says uh, searching for Windell says Is the 1877 01:52:39.399 --> 01:52:46.119 evidence for logic working equivalent to the evidence for God's existence? No, 1878 01:52:46.880 --> 01:52:49.720 because I would say that in order to ground logic itself, 1879 01:52:49.920 --> 01:52:52.119 you need the type of God that we argue for. 1880 01:52:52.359 --> 01:52:55.680 So I'm not equating God to logic. How should I 1881 01:52:55.880 --> 01:52:59.920 start my journey to believe voice? How do I know? Voices? 1882 01:53:01.520 --> 01:53:05.560 Voices in my head are not the general God. So 1883 01:53:05.680 --> 01:53:10.159 we don't go from those kinds of like you know, 1884 01:53:10.359 --> 01:53:13.760 personal mystical experiences. You might have a mystical experience, but 1885 01:53:13.840 --> 01:53:17.279 that's not how we go by knowing God or knowing 1886 01:53:17.439 --> 01:53:21.920 these religious truths. Again, Scripture is where we start. Scripture 1887 01:53:22.000 --> 01:53:25.760 is the primary source of revealed theology. There's other sources 1888 01:53:25.880 --> 01:53:28.960 that it comes to tradition and you read the Fathers 1889 01:53:29.000 --> 01:53:31.520 and this kind of stuff too, But like it starts 1890 01:53:31.560 --> 01:53:35.600 in scripture and nobody denies this right, So you're not 1891 01:53:35.760 --> 01:53:38.520 going to be listening to and this is a temptation 1892 01:53:38.640 --> 01:53:40.039 I think for a lot of people who are maybe 1893 01:53:40.159 --> 01:53:45.159 new to Christianity or whatever. They start thinking, Oh, it's 1894 01:53:45.239 --> 01:53:47.800 God telling me to not go to this to work 1895 01:53:47.840 --> 01:53:50.079 at this place anymore. Oh, God's telling me not that. 1896 01:53:51.359 --> 01:53:54.479 You need the first and foremost learn what God's telling 1897 01:53:54.520 --> 01:53:58.279 you from scripture, not from what you think you feel 1898 01:53:58.359 --> 01:54:01.119 at this and that time. That a way, don't worry 1899 01:54:01.119 --> 01:54:04.600 about it. You need to be catechized in scripture and 1900 01:54:04.720 --> 01:54:08.760 in the church. Then you can make the accurate judgment 1901 01:54:08.880 --> 01:54:11.479 calls as to well, God was telling me that I 1902 01:54:11.560 --> 01:54:13.560 need to move to this city. God's telling me I 1903 01:54:13.640 --> 01:54:16.680 need to date this person or not date that. God's 1904 01:54:16.760 --> 01:54:19.920 telling you what's in scripture first of all, and then 1905 01:54:19.960 --> 01:54:24.199 you're making your life decisions on being in accordance with 1906 01:54:24.279 --> 01:54:27.119 what's in scripture. Right, So don't listen to this like 1907 01:54:27.239 --> 01:54:32.640 the charismatic gibberish nonsense. Right, if you want to be married, 1908 01:54:32.760 --> 01:54:35.199 God gives you the freedom to make that choice. If 1909 01:54:35.239 --> 01:54:38.119 you want to be single and inter amonastery, God gives 1910 01:54:38.159 --> 01:54:39.800 you that freedom if you want to make that choice. 1911 01:54:40.159 --> 01:54:40.279 Right. 1912 01:54:41.279 --> 01:54:43.840 But so often people are like worried about God's will 1913 01:54:43.920 --> 01:54:45.800 for their life or what God's will is in scripture. 1914 01:54:46.039 --> 01:54:48.319 He tells you what to do right. I'm not saying 1915 01:54:48.359 --> 01:54:51.760 you can't have like a providential event that helps you 1916 01:54:52.000 --> 01:54:55.319 make decisions. But people are so obsessed. 1917 01:54:54.920 --> 01:54:55.399 With like this. 1918 01:54:56.119 --> 01:54:58.119 I can't wait for the dreams and the visions and 1919 01:54:58.199 --> 01:54:59.960 this kind of stuff. No, don't even worry about that. 1920 01:55:00.680 --> 01:55:03.840 God has told you what is good. Scripture says, so 1921 01:55:03.920 --> 01:55:06.399 you don't. You don't have to go through that bunch 1922 01:55:06.439 --> 01:55:09.840 of nonsense. You are. We already know what the will 1923 01:55:09.880 --> 01:55:13.399 of God is. It's revealed in scripture and in tradition 1924 01:55:13.479 --> 01:55:18.560 in the church. All Right, it cut out there Sometimes 1925 01:55:18.960 --> 01:55:21.119 discord crashes. But are you guys still there? 1926 01:55:22.319 --> 01:55:23.000 Yeah, I'm here. 1927 01:55:23.359 --> 01:55:23.880 Can you hear me? 1928 01:55:24.199 --> 01:55:29.880 Yes, sir, very good. I literally just lost my place. 1929 01:55:30.039 --> 01:55:31.319 Give me a second. Six. 1930 01:55:31.399 --> 01:55:34.239 Okay. He has shown you, oh man, what is good 1931 01:55:34.960 --> 01:55:38.000 to do? Justice, love, righteousness, you know, et cetera. Scripture 1932 01:55:38.000 --> 01:55:42.960 says this. You don't have to be hunkered over in 1933 01:55:43.039 --> 01:55:46.800 a corner, flopping around the ground speaking gibberish, waiting for 1934 01:55:46.920 --> 01:55:49.920 some so called prophet in the charismatic church to tell 1935 01:55:49.960 --> 01:55:51.880 you what God's will is. It's in scripture, dude. 1936 01:55:53.600 --> 01:55:54.800 And we have a history. 1937 01:55:55.000 --> 01:55:57.319 We have a historical question. Do you believe that the 1938 01:55:57.399 --> 01:55:59.920 shroud of Turin was housed in Constantine. 1939 01:56:00.960 --> 01:56:02.720 I don't have any opinion on it. I don't know. 1940 01:56:03.119 --> 01:56:04.000 I'm not opposed to this. 1941 01:56:04.159 --> 01:56:05.640 It was, Isn't that historical? 1942 01:56:05.920 --> 01:56:06.239 I don't know. 1943 01:56:06.319 --> 01:56:08.800 I mean, I mean, how can you have an opinion 1944 01:56:08.880 --> 01:56:10.319 on a historical fact. 1945 01:56:12.880 --> 01:56:16.479 Well, I suppose some people can doubt what's believed to 1946 01:56:16.520 --> 01:56:18.720 be historical facts. I mean, it happens in Academia. 1947 01:56:21.880 --> 01:56:25.359 Well, I thought the Crusaders took it from Constantinople back 1948 01:56:25.439 --> 01:56:27.279 to Venice. 1949 01:56:28.159 --> 01:56:29.119 That's what I understood. 1950 01:56:30.199 --> 01:56:32.640 I don't again, I don't have any pro or con 1951 01:56:32.960 --> 01:56:37.359 opinion of the shroud. I'm fine with it being Jesus 1952 01:56:37.840 --> 01:56:40.720 and a real relic or not. I don't have any 1953 01:56:40.720 --> 01:56:41.239 opinion on it. 1954 01:56:43.119 --> 01:56:47.239 Next question is, would you, father, deacon, or another orthodoxicologist 1955 01:56:47.319 --> 01:56:51.000 in the circle consider writing a big book addressing frequently 1956 01:56:51.119 --> 01:56:53.119 asked questions about Orthodoxy. 1957 01:56:53.239 --> 01:56:54.960 There's probably a book for it already. 1958 01:56:55.199 --> 01:56:57.520 No, probably not. Yeah, I mean I think we have 1959 01:56:57.840 --> 01:56:58.840 plenty of those already. 1960 01:56:59.079 --> 01:57:03.439 So yeah, if we have plenty of catechisms, Like I'm. 1961 01:57:03.359 --> 01:57:05.439 Not a catechist, right, if you want to come to 1962 01:57:05.520 --> 01:57:07.239 the discord, and you know, there's plenty of people who 1963 01:57:07.239 --> 01:57:09.560 can do catechisis that's I'm not here to do that. 1964 01:57:10.520 --> 01:57:13.600 So anyway, Yeah, the. 1965 01:57:13.640 --> 01:57:17.159 Admins here can do basic katakiss, so the baptized ones. 1966 01:57:17.159 --> 01:57:20.560 Anyway, there's plenty of resources for that. 1967 01:57:20.800 --> 01:57:27.359 So what is your view on divine command theory? 1968 01:57:29.279 --> 01:57:31.560 We have an aspect of divine command theory, but we 1969 01:57:31.680 --> 01:57:36.159 also have aspects of the other views. I mean, if 1970 01:57:36.199 --> 01:57:40.479 you're talking about moral justification like Utafro dilemma. 1971 01:57:40.239 --> 01:57:40.359 Is that? 1972 01:57:40.439 --> 01:57:40.840 What is that? 1973 01:57:40.880 --> 01:57:41.520 What they're getting at? 1974 01:57:43.640 --> 01:57:47.039 That was just a question what was your view of it? 1975 01:57:47.520 --> 01:57:47.640 Right? 1976 01:57:47.880 --> 01:57:52.880 So if you're talking about the Utafro dilemma, I mean 1977 01:57:52.960 --> 01:57:56.039 I've answered this this many many times. We did Kallopian Club. 1978 01:57:56.159 --> 01:57:59.560 We had two different hour long discussions and two different 1979 01:58:00.960 --> 01:58:04.079 discord amas where we argued over this question. And I 1980 01:58:04.199 --> 01:58:09.800 try to explain that we don't equate the command of 1981 01:58:09.920 --> 01:58:13.840 God with so God doesn't have to submit to a 1982 01:58:13.960 --> 01:58:16.800 rule that's higher than him. And every time this question 1983 01:58:16.920 --> 01:58:18.720 is framed in the youth throw of the limit, they say, well, 1984 01:58:18.760 --> 01:58:22.159 then therefore God can just will the good to be 1985 01:58:22.359 --> 01:58:25.520 something opposite to itself. We don't believe that because we 1986 01:58:25.600 --> 01:58:29.359 have a different conception of God and the essence energy distinction. Right, 1987 01:58:29.439 --> 01:58:34.760 God's commands God's actions. What comes from God is on 1988 01:58:34.880 --> 01:58:37.279 the basis of his character, but it's not identical to 1989 01:58:37.399 --> 01:58:40.520 his character, so we don't identify God's will with his essence. 1990 01:58:48.560 --> 01:58:50.840 Rip erse. 1991 01:58:53.880 --> 01:58:56.319 Onward as theo Von says, onward. 1992 01:58:58.680 --> 01:58:59.880 Okay, now what a back. 1993 01:59:06.079 --> 01:59:06.880 Yeah, next question. 1994 01:59:08.199 --> 01:59:12.439 Okay, So next question is what was the limit of 1995 01:59:12.640 --> 01:59:15.119 the Byzantine emperor's powers in the church. 1996 01:59:15.279 --> 01:59:16.880 Could he appoint and remove. 1997 01:59:16.680 --> 01:59:23.680 Bishops he's not supposed to. He probably was involved in 1998 01:59:25.439 --> 01:59:30.920 you know, those kinds of ceremonies or whatever. The emperor 1999 01:59:31.000 --> 01:59:33.479 can go behind the Kona stasis, so he's almost given 2000 01:59:33.520 --> 01:59:37.399 a quasi deaconant role because Paul describes the emperor as 2001 01:59:37.680 --> 01:59:42.640 a diaconos of God. But anytime the emperors tried to 2002 01:59:42.720 --> 01:59:45.000 do this, this was seen as a violation. I mean, 2003 01:59:45.000 --> 01:59:47.680 you have many heretical, heretic emperors who tried to do 2004 01:59:47.840 --> 01:59:50.039 this and tried to run the church and it never worked. 2005 01:59:50.760 --> 01:59:55.000 So but no, I don't think the emperors like took 2006 01:59:55.039 --> 01:59:58.039 over the church. If they ran the church and subverted it, 2007 01:59:58.520 --> 02:00:02.039 then we wouldn't have wor the doxy right, the heretic 2008 02:00:02.119 --> 02:00:05.039 emperors would have been condemned. But none of the heretic 2009 02:00:05.079 --> 02:00:06.600 emperors ever ended up victorious. 2010 02:00:09.439 --> 02:00:10.560 Okay, we got a little bit. 2011 02:00:10.560 --> 02:00:13.600 Pointed popes and stuff sometimes as well. 2012 02:00:16.000 --> 02:00:18.119 Well, that's a good point in the in the in 2013 02:00:18.199 --> 02:00:24.359 the West, its same problems, right, I mean the papacy, 2014 02:00:24.439 --> 02:00:26.199 as we just did that stream with snack, I mean, 2015 02:00:26.239 --> 02:00:30.119 the papacy becomes a tool of the Franks, and that's 2016 02:00:30.199 --> 02:00:32.560 not even in question in terms of history. 2017 02:00:37.039 --> 02:00:39.840 Okay, next question is this is a really weird one. 2018 02:00:40.119 --> 02:00:42.319 I just feel like banning the guy for asking it. 2019 02:00:42.439 --> 02:00:47.239 But what's the rationale behind the church prohibiting first cousin marriages? 2020 02:00:47.520 --> 02:00:47.560 Is? 2021 02:00:48.119 --> 02:00:51.079 Uh, it's practiced throughout the world, and it's not prohibited 2022 02:00:51.119 --> 02:00:54.720 in the Old Testament. Also, the genetic defects that result 2023 02:00:54.800 --> 02:00:57.880 from it are exaggerated. Yeah, okay, but I don't want 2024 02:00:57.920 --> 02:01:02.039 to marry my cousin. I'm just curious, okay, don't I 2025 02:01:02.079 --> 02:01:02.399 don't know. 2026 02:01:02.840 --> 02:01:03.680 I mean, for. 2027 02:01:05.720 --> 02:01:07.800 A friend, why can't I marry my president? I don't know. 2028 02:01:08.119 --> 02:01:10.279 You look at the you look at the Arab world, 2029 02:01:10.359 --> 02:01:13.119 and then you say that the genetic defects is exaggerated. 2030 02:01:13.840 --> 02:01:14.920 Is not exaggerated? 2031 02:01:17.279 --> 02:01:22.479 Bounty US five dollars? Couldn't a god of another faith 2032 02:01:22.640 --> 02:01:26.119 system have revealed himself to be similar in an essence. 2033 02:01:28.600 --> 02:01:32.600 In counter argument to TAG, no, because the TAG argument 2034 02:01:32.760 --> 02:01:35.680 is not just a rational argument for for our view 2035 02:01:35.800 --> 02:01:38.800 or an abstract argument. It's the TAG argument is the 2036 02:01:39.000 --> 02:01:41.920 entire Christian paradigm. That's the point. That's the strength of 2037 02:01:42.000 --> 02:01:44.319 TAG is that we're not arguing for a little piecemeal thing. 2038 02:01:45.039 --> 02:01:48.479 I mean, we might have to argue on the basis 2039 02:01:48.520 --> 02:01:50.840 of one area of the worldview at a time, just 2040 02:01:50.880 --> 02:01:54.159 because of the limitations of of us as humans, we 2041 02:01:54.199 --> 02:01:56.399 can only talk about one thing at a time. But 2042 02:01:56.560 --> 02:01:59.279 the argument, the TAG argument isn't just an argument for God. 2043 02:01:59.279 --> 02:02:01.800 If I'm arguing for the triune God, then I'm also 2044 02:02:01.960 --> 02:02:05.239 arguing for that whole paradigm, the God. Who didn't the 2045 02:02:05.279 --> 02:02:09.159 Triune God create the world? Didn't he have providence? Doesn't 2046 02:02:09.159 --> 02:02:12.079 he have you know, an incarnation, etcetera, etcetera. So it's 2047 02:02:12.279 --> 02:02:14.800 an argument for the whole paradigm, not just for an 2048 02:02:14.800 --> 02:02:21.319 abstraction of logical argumentations or mental structures or something like this. 2049 02:02:21.840 --> 02:02:24.079 So even if I start arguing on the basis of 2050 02:02:24.560 --> 02:02:28.279 logic or the metaphysical status of logical entities or whatever, 2051 02:02:29.039 --> 02:02:31.800 I'm just picking that as a place to argue the 2052 02:02:32.079 --> 02:02:35.640 entire paradigm. That's the point here. I'm not saying it's 2053 02:02:35.800 --> 02:02:39.199 true because I'm arguing for an entire paradigm. I'm saying 2054 02:02:39.239 --> 02:02:42.199 that that is the argument. The argument isn't just for 2055 02:02:42.680 --> 02:02:46.479 the Trinity, it's for the entire paradigm. You see. That's 2056 02:02:46.520 --> 02:02:51.399 why the argument is unique, because I can't argue piecemeal 2057 02:02:51.479 --> 02:02:53.600 and be consistent if I can't just argue for the 2058 02:02:53.680 --> 02:02:55.720 Trinity without the rest of the of the revelation of 2059 02:02:55.760 --> 02:02:59.520 the Trinity. Right, the revelation is holistic. It's not just 2060 02:02:59.600 --> 02:03:02.000 the trend, it's all the other dogmas they go along 2061 02:03:02.039 --> 02:03:04.239 with the Trinity. It's a whole system that I'm arguing for. 2062 02:03:04.399 --> 02:03:07.800 That's the point. So, no, you can't come up with 2063 02:03:07.880 --> 02:03:11.520 a ripoff version that's like the two god system or 2064 02:03:11.560 --> 02:03:15.439 the four gods system. That's all the things in your system, 2065 02:03:15.520 --> 02:03:18.880 but mine's for gods. Well, dude, that's actually just a ripoff, 2066 02:03:19.000 --> 02:03:23.239 and our argument is not divorced from history. Our argument 2067 02:03:23.319 --> 02:03:28.279 includes a God incarnate that's not going to be what 2068 02:03:28.399 --> 02:03:30.720 you argue for. Like, I mean, would you argue, did 2069 02:03:31.079 --> 02:03:34.560 did the four person God become incarnate? Really? 2070 02:03:34.800 --> 02:03:34.920 Oh? 2071 02:03:35.000 --> 02:03:37.800 Well, guess what, dude, that's from us, like you're ripping 2072 02:03:37.920 --> 02:03:39.720 off us, right, you see what I'm saying. I mean, 2073 02:03:39.960 --> 02:03:43.520 our whole system is already a two thousand year old 2074 02:03:43.640 --> 02:03:47.479 into history system based on four thousand year prior to 2075 02:03:47.640 --> 02:03:51.159 that Old Testament revelation. It's an entire system that we're 2076 02:03:51.239 --> 02:03:55.680 arguing for the whole thing, including history, including the Church, 2077 02:03:55.760 --> 02:04:00.319 including the incarnation. It's all part of the argument. So no, 2078 02:04:00.600 --> 02:04:05.479 you can't consistently just say, well, I have a you know, 2079 02:04:05.600 --> 02:04:08.520 trinity in my head that I've come up with that 2080 02:04:08.800 --> 02:04:12.239 solves all the epistemic dilemmas of your trinity system, and 2081 02:04:12.239 --> 02:04:15.520 therefore why can't I just post mine? Because my argument 2082 02:04:15.680 --> 02:04:19.399 is the entire Christian paradigm, all of it, ten Commandments, 2083 02:04:19.920 --> 02:04:21.920 Jesus in history, all that stuff. 2084 02:04:24.399 --> 02:04:30.079 Okay, next question, Uh, I was wondering if Jay can 2085 02:04:30.119 --> 02:04:31.960 give a short elaboration. 2086 02:04:31.680 --> 02:04:41.039 Of theosis difnation. Uh. Yeah, How it differs from Mormon view? 2087 02:04:42.880 --> 02:04:45.720 Well, so, our our view is not that you become 2088 02:04:45.760 --> 02:04:46.880 a God of your own planet. 2089 02:04:47.119 --> 02:04:47.239 Right. 2090 02:04:47.399 --> 02:04:51.520 Our view is not that God the Father impregnated but Mary. 2091 02:04:55.319 --> 02:04:58.479 We don't bear any similarity to the Mormon view. Our 2092 02:04:58.600 --> 02:05:01.479 view is what the Church always taught, which is not 2093 02:05:01.600 --> 02:05:05.079 the Mormon view. Obviously, it's a participation in the uncreated 2094 02:05:05.239 --> 02:05:07.640 energies of God, which is not what Mormons teach. We 2095 02:05:07.720 --> 02:05:11.359 don't teach that the triad is a literal Father with 2096 02:05:11.479 --> 02:05:14.439 a body who impregnated Mary. All this goofy crazy that 2097 02:05:14.560 --> 02:05:17.560 we don't teach that, dude. Come on, So there's absolutely 2098 02:05:17.640 --> 02:05:20.119 no similarity to the Mormon view, because the Mormon view 2099 02:05:20.279 --> 02:05:23.880 is like a space opera, you know, like you're going 2100 02:05:23.920 --> 02:05:26.960 to be God of your own planet and have celestial 2101 02:05:27.119 --> 02:05:30.640 sex and space babies and that. What are you talking about, dude, 2102 02:05:30.760 --> 02:05:33.760 that's what That's not what we're talking about. 2103 02:05:37.159 --> 02:05:37.479 Okay. 2104 02:05:37.880 --> 02:05:42.640 Next one is when God cursed the serpent to eat 2105 02:05:43.000 --> 02:05:44.479 dust all the days of your life. 2106 02:05:44.880 --> 02:05:48.199 But that had been a reference back to Adam being 2107 02:05:48.359 --> 02:05:50.199 formed from and returning to dust. 2108 02:05:50.439 --> 02:05:52.560 Was God telling the serpent that it would feed on 2109 02:05:52.680 --> 02:05:54.319 dead matter and thus death itself? 2110 02:05:57.760 --> 02:06:00.439 Yeah, I mean, I don't think that Satan or the 2111 02:06:00.560 --> 02:06:03.520 serpent literally feeds on dead matter. But there is a 2112 02:06:03.600 --> 02:06:06.399 connection between the dust of the earth and the curse 2113 02:06:07.039 --> 02:06:11.159 pretty consistently throughout scripture. Absolutely, just like thorns and briars 2114 02:06:11.239 --> 02:06:15.000 and thistles will come up. That's an image that's used 2115 02:06:15.000 --> 02:06:17.720 throughout the Old Testament of the curse of the Fall. 2116 02:06:18.000 --> 02:06:22.359 So yes, in a certain symbolic sense, but not like 2117 02:06:23.079 --> 02:06:26.279 snakes are literally eating dead things or something like that. 2118 02:06:28.520 --> 02:06:33.000 Okay, next question is this is from someone seeking advice. 2119 02:06:33.119 --> 02:06:35.720 He says, how should I deal with the fact that 2120 02:06:36.000 --> 02:06:39.800 most of the priests in my area are gambling, drunkard 2121 02:06:39.960 --> 02:06:45.279 di divorces, gallivanting with women of the nine. 2122 02:06:47.119 --> 02:06:48.760 So the christ I guess is, how do you deal 2123 02:06:48.800 --> 02:06:51.479 with the fact that you have bad priests in your area? 2124 02:06:52.199 --> 02:06:54.039 Yeah? Well, first of all, I mean I'm not convinced 2125 02:06:54.079 --> 02:06:57.199 that gambling itself is inherently always wrong. There's a little 2126 02:06:57.399 --> 02:07:00.600 this is ambiguous territory. I mean, if if I have 2127 02:07:00.680 --> 02:07:02.800 a business venture and I take out a loan or 2128 02:07:02.840 --> 02:07:05.800 whatever to I mean, that's a gamble. So I mean, 2129 02:07:05.840 --> 02:07:08.680 at what point exactly gambling is this is you know, 2130 02:07:08.760 --> 02:07:12.239 we're not Puritan Protestants here with this kind of stuff, 2131 02:07:12.279 --> 02:07:19.000 but I mean, there there's really no church that's immune 2132 02:07:19.079 --> 02:07:23.119 to corrupt leadership, right, that's in Protestants, that's in Roman Catholics, 2133 02:07:23.199 --> 02:07:26.920 it's Orthodox. I mean, this is this is just a 2134 02:07:27.039 --> 02:07:30.199 problem of the human domain. So I don't have any 2135 02:07:30.239 --> 02:07:32.159 easy answer as to what you can do other than 2136 02:07:32.520 --> 02:07:35.319 to try to find the best that you can that's 2137 02:07:35.439 --> 02:07:38.800 not corrupt. I mean, can you go to a different 2138 02:07:38.840 --> 02:07:41.439 city that's nearby if it's a little bit longer. I mean, 2139 02:07:41.479 --> 02:07:44.520 I've had to drive one two three hours before to 2140 02:07:44.600 --> 02:07:46.159 go to church. And if you if you've got a 2141 02:07:46.199 --> 02:07:48.119 long drive and it's you can't do it every Sunday, 2142 02:07:48.159 --> 02:07:50.439 then plan you know, like once a month to do 2143 02:07:51.119 --> 02:07:53.439 you know, your one month trip to the church that's 2144 02:07:53.479 --> 02:07:55.279 two hours away or whatever. I had to do that 2145 02:07:55.399 --> 02:07:58.159 for a long time before I had something closer to me. 2146 02:07:58.359 --> 02:08:02.239 So it's just, you know, I don't have any easy 2147 02:08:02.279 --> 02:08:04.760 answer for that kind of stuff, but it is unfortunate. 2148 02:08:04.840 --> 02:08:07.479 There are a lot of corrupt clergy out there, no 2149 02:08:07.560 --> 02:08:08.039 doubt about that. 2150 02:08:11.399 --> 02:08:16.279 Next question is, if the Creator is separate from this 2151 02:08:16.479 --> 02:08:22.039 cosmos in a manner opposed to pantheism and panentheism, wouldn't 2152 02:08:22.079 --> 02:08:27.640 the totality comprised of Creator us his creation be more 2153 02:08:27.800 --> 02:08:32.119 encompassing than the Creator by himself, such that the aggregate 2154 02:08:32.560 --> 02:08:36.560 of Creator and creation then comprise a greater entity than 2155 02:08:36.640 --> 02:08:37.960 the Creator by himself. 2156 02:08:38.239 --> 02:08:42.319 And wouldn't this mean that the aggregate slash totality. 2157 02:08:41.760 --> 02:08:46.560 Would then better fit the characteristics of the absolute or God. 2158 02:08:47.399 --> 02:08:49.239 Then would the creator alone. 2159 02:08:49.720 --> 02:08:52.600 I have heard in places that Orthodoxy is panentheistic, but 2160 02:08:52.640 --> 02:08:54.319 I'm not sure if most orthodox. 2161 02:08:54.399 --> 02:08:58.600 Would confirm, Well, this is equivocation on the notion of 2162 02:08:58.680 --> 02:09:02.439 what is greater or not greater? I mean, on what 2163 02:09:02.600 --> 02:09:05.960 basis are you saying that because there is God and creation, 2164 02:09:06.199 --> 02:09:09.600 that's somehow greater. Now we would say, with Dionysius in 2165 02:09:09.680 --> 02:09:12.800 the Divine Names, that the fact that God creates he 2166 02:09:12.920 --> 02:09:17.039 did intend to create to express and to share his goodness. 2167 02:09:17.760 --> 02:09:20.640 He wanted to share himself and his goodness with creatures. 2168 02:09:21.199 --> 02:09:24.640 So that is in a sense greater. But that doesn't 2169 02:09:24.680 --> 02:09:27.600 mean that it adds greater to God himself, right, because 2170 02:09:27.640 --> 02:09:31.439 God did not lack anything. And Maximus himself deals with 2171 02:09:31.560 --> 02:09:34.560 this question many places in the ambiguity where it comes 2172 02:09:34.640 --> 02:09:39.039 up with Well, if you read Toolos and his dissertation 2173 02:09:39.199 --> 02:09:42.640 on Maximus covers this question about well, why did God 2174 02:09:42.880 --> 02:09:46.279 choose to create? And Maximus says, we can't say other 2175 02:09:46.399 --> 02:09:48.960 than out of his own goodness. But his goodness doesn't 2176 02:09:49.000 --> 02:09:52.439 add to being like like, oh, God lacked, he was 2177 02:09:52.520 --> 02:09:55.119 lonely or something like that, and so he created because 2178 02:09:55.119 --> 02:09:56.359 he was lonely and needed more. 2179 02:09:56.439 --> 02:09:56.560 You know. 2180 02:09:56.920 --> 02:10:01.039 No, it's just out of pure, overflowing goodness and love, 2181 02:10:01.439 --> 02:10:04.680 is what Maximus says. So, uh, no, it doesn't add 2182 02:10:04.880 --> 02:10:08.960 to his being. And there's no there's no, there's no 2183 02:10:09.079 --> 02:10:12.279 aggregate goodness that like trumps the goodness that God has, 2184 02:10:12.439 --> 02:10:17.319 because the goodness that creation possesses is a participatory goodness 2185 02:10:17.399 --> 02:10:23.800 that God has. And by the way, panentheism is kind 2186 02:10:23.840 --> 02:10:26.359 of orthodox, so I'm confused as to what what what 2187 02:10:26.520 --> 02:10:29.079 that person is talking about. We don't believe in pantheism, 2188 02:10:29.119 --> 02:10:31.239 but we do believe that God permeates the creative order. 2189 02:10:31.319 --> 02:10:37.640 Sure, okay, cool, it seems as if we actually got 2190 02:10:37.720 --> 02:10:38.520 through the questions. 2191 02:10:39.239 --> 02:10:42.039 Also cool, Well, we've been going for two hours, so 2192 02:10:42.119 --> 02:10:43.439 let me see if there's any more of the super 2193 02:10:43.520 --> 02:10:45.560 check questions. Uh, there's a. 2194 02:10:45.600 --> 02:10:48.479 Couple here that says we also got another one. 2195 02:10:48.600 --> 02:10:53.840 Okay, now there's a few here. Let's let me go 2196 02:10:53.960 --> 02:10:59.840 back to where I missed a bunch of these. Well, 2197 02:11:00.119 --> 02:11:07.920 a whole much Kung Powell for ten dollars? Why was 2198 02:11:07.960 --> 02:11:12.600 the virgin Mary necessary? Could God create recreate without her? Sure? 2199 02:11:13.319 --> 02:11:18.760 But God always chooses to use and have humans participate 2200 02:11:18.920 --> 02:11:23.439 with him in redemption. God just wanted to do it 2201 02:11:23.520 --> 02:11:26.439 that way because again, like I said before, creation occurred 2202 02:11:26.479 --> 02:11:29.199 out of the goodness of God, not because God needed 2203 02:11:29.840 --> 02:11:32.199 or had lack. I mean, this is precisely one of 2204 02:11:32.199 --> 02:11:35.439 the reasons why we don't have a bare, strict monotheism 2205 02:11:35.560 --> 02:11:41.199 of a self existent person from all eternity. God always 2206 02:11:41.359 --> 02:11:45.600 had a over ever flowing, overflowing love from the Father 2207 02:11:46.239 --> 02:11:49.159 to the Son and in the Spirit. So there is 2208 02:11:49.319 --> 02:11:54.520 that triadic love and communion from all eternity. And so 2209 02:11:54.680 --> 02:11:58.000 God didn't create the world as a reflection of himself 2210 02:11:58.079 --> 02:12:01.039 because he was lonely or because he needed some way 2211 02:12:01.079 --> 02:12:04.359 to be Lord. He was always Lord right, the Father 2212 02:12:04.680 --> 02:12:07.560 was always Lord, He was always the cause in Arka, 2213 02:12:07.920 --> 02:12:10.760 and always had the Son. So there was always that 2214 02:12:10.880 --> 02:12:14.680 perfect triadic relationship in the creation of the world. Therefore, 2215 02:12:14.800 --> 02:12:17.640 is not out of necessity. It's not an emanation. It's 2216 02:12:17.680 --> 02:12:21.720 not a determined thing on the basis of eternal forms 2217 02:12:21.760 --> 02:12:24.039 in the essence of God or Platonism or anything like that. 2218 02:12:24.560 --> 02:12:27.720 It's purely out of goodwill. This is what makes Christianity 2219 02:12:27.880 --> 02:12:32.439 unique is that the creative world is a willful expression 2220 02:12:32.600 --> 02:12:36.039 of God's love and goodness in being and not any 2221 02:12:36.119 --> 02:12:40.119 kind of necessary emanation or determined process. That's the chief 2222 02:12:40.239 --> 02:12:44.359 argument that Maximus makes against Origin and Plotinus and all 2223 02:12:44.399 --> 02:12:48.279 these weirdos and creeps is that, no, it's not a 2224 02:12:48.439 --> 02:12:52.920 necessary emanation or creation, is not an eternal generation from 2225 02:12:52.960 --> 02:12:56.960 God or anything like that like the Platonist thought. So 2226 02:12:57.239 --> 02:13:01.600 that's what makes it unique. And therefore when we read 2227 02:13:01.680 --> 02:13:04.880 Genesis and we see that Mary, when we see that 2228 02:13:04.960 --> 02:13:07.319 Eve is the mother of all, right, now we start 2229 02:13:07.359 --> 02:13:10.159 to see how Mary is the new Eve. You see, 2230 02:13:10.359 --> 02:13:13.760 it's a common comparison. Mary is the ark of the covenant. 2231 02:13:13.880 --> 02:13:17.439 Mary is the answer to the destruction that Eve brought. 2232 02:13:18.159 --> 02:13:22.359 So that's why Mary was necessary in a secondary sense, 2233 02:13:22.479 --> 02:13:25.680 not that God needed her, but that He chose and 2234 02:13:25.800 --> 02:13:30.520 willed to have humans or someone like Mary be necessary 2235 02:13:30.640 --> 02:13:34.800 in the economy of salvation. So that's the answer to 2236 02:13:34.800 --> 02:13:38.640 that question. But thank you for that, Kung Paw Bounteous. 2237 02:13:39.319 --> 02:13:39.680 Go ahead. 2238 02:13:40.640 --> 02:13:40.800 Yeah. 2239 02:13:41.840 --> 02:13:44.880 I think a lot of people sometimes, especially Muslim critics, 2240 02:13:45.000 --> 02:13:51.720 forget the whole concept of like divine drama and stuff 2241 02:13:51.800 --> 02:13:55.560 like that, Like how do you talk about and Athanasius 2242 02:13:55.560 --> 02:13:57.560 talks about how the crucifixion. 2243 02:13:56.960 --> 02:13:59.720 Had to be a particularly kind of violent and kind 2244 02:13:59.720 --> 02:14:01.960 of obvious. 2245 02:14:01.680 --> 02:14:04.319 Things so that people would know about it and the 2246 02:14:04.439 --> 02:14:08.079 economy and you know, like the divine counsel and stuff 2247 02:14:08.159 --> 02:14:11.520 like that. Like God doesn't need to consult with his 2248 02:14:12.039 --> 02:14:15.960 divine counsel to make decisions, but he does. And it's 2249 02:14:16.399 --> 02:14:20.199 like a divine a divine fittingness to all these things, 2250 02:14:20.279 --> 02:14:23.760 to this order because it's pedagogical as well for us, 2251 02:14:24.640 --> 02:14:25.680 it teaches us things. 2252 02:14:26.359 --> 02:14:30.800 Yeah, I mean, God didn't need Abraham to intercede for Sodom. 2253 02:14:31.000 --> 02:14:33.399 Orrybody knew that he would, and he chose to operate 2254 02:14:33.520 --> 02:14:38.800 through Yeah, creaturely co operators. As paulses, we are God's 2255 02:14:38.880 --> 02:14:42.199 co workers. God didn't need Amos to intercede, but he 2256 02:14:42.439 --> 02:14:43.720 wanted Amos to intercede. 2257 02:14:44.840 --> 02:14:46.239 Ythan says, well, that too. 2258 02:14:46.359 --> 02:14:49.560 He's like God didn't need like he didn't need Moses 2259 02:14:49.640 --> 02:14:52.640 to raise his staff to split the sea or anything. Like, 2260 02:14:52.720 --> 02:14:57.399 he didn't need all these human specific human involvements. 2261 02:14:56.880 --> 02:14:58.920 To a lot of the things he does well. 2262 02:14:58.960 --> 02:15:02.600 The incarnation is thus a affirmation of the goodness of 2263 02:15:02.720 --> 02:15:05.960 creation and God's will to use the created order, because 2264 02:15:06.039 --> 02:15:08.800 it was always his intent to become incarnate and always 2265 02:15:08.840 --> 02:15:11.760 his intent to use the created order. That's key. Creation 2266 02:15:11.920 --> 02:15:17.920 itself presupposes incarnation. That's what's unique to orthodoxy. Let's see 2267 02:15:18.079 --> 02:15:22.680 Bounteous for five dollars, could God create? Wait, Noah, that's 2268 02:15:22.680 --> 02:15:25.399 the one I already answered, peak brain capacity a dollar. 2269 02:15:25.520 --> 02:15:29.680 If the world we are living in is not operating 2270 02:15:29.720 --> 02:15:32.000 the same way as described in Genesis because of the fault, 2271 02:15:32.079 --> 02:15:36.000 then evolutionary theory could be regarded as balanced science on 2272 02:15:36.119 --> 02:15:38.720 the basis of pure empirical evidence. Well, they're necess saying 2273 02:15:38.720 --> 02:15:42.680 it is pure empirical science or evidence. All data is 2274 02:15:42.800 --> 02:15:46.720 theory laden, All empirical experience is theory laden. Go listen 2275 02:15:46.760 --> 02:15:49.079 to this stef On volume debate. I outline the four 2276 02:15:49.119 --> 02:15:52.800 problems of basic empiricism that nobody in an empiricist tradition 2277 02:15:52.920 --> 02:15:57.119 can answer. Their basic well known classical problems of raw 2278 02:15:57.439 --> 02:16:01.199 not eve empiricism that have been asked for centuries now 2279 02:16:01.239 --> 02:16:05.800 ever since David Hume Willard sellers up in the present day, 2280 02:16:06.199 --> 02:16:08.920 William ben Orman Kwine, those are the basic problems that 2281 02:16:08.960 --> 02:16:11.960 empiricism can't answer. So you're wrong about the idea that 2282 02:16:12.039 --> 02:16:15.319 there is such a thing as a pure empirical data 2283 02:16:15.399 --> 02:16:16.840 or science or whatever. I can't see the rest of 2284 02:16:16.880 --> 02:16:19.520 your question, but that looks like where you're going. And 2285 02:16:19.760 --> 02:16:23.600 if you mean by evolution adaptation, nobody denies that species 2286 02:16:23.680 --> 02:16:26.479 adapt But if you mean by evolution this grand theory 2287 02:16:27.079 --> 02:16:30.920 of death being natural and AONs of time to produce 2288 02:16:31.119 --> 02:16:33.559 Adam and Eve out of Kate, Geico, Caveman or some 2289 02:16:33.639 --> 02:16:41.239 of this nonsense, then no, be chez wait searching one dollar. Okay, 2290 02:16:41.360 --> 02:16:44.319 I read the scripture, but I can't overcome my skepticism. 2291 02:16:44.440 --> 02:16:45.840 Well that was pretty quick too. That was like an 2292 02:16:45.879 --> 02:16:48.559 hour ago. So you you read the Bible in an 2293 02:16:48.600 --> 02:16:52.559 hour again, So it could be just a book. Well, 2294 02:16:53.000 --> 02:16:56.319 how can just the book predict the birth of Christ? 2295 02:16:56.440 --> 02:16:59.440 How can just the book predict all of these messianics 2296 02:16:59.479 --> 02:17:04.399 specific that one guy comes and fulfills. How is that 2297 02:17:04.760 --> 02:17:09.680 just the book? When you pray, does God speak to you? No, 2298 02:17:09.879 --> 02:17:11.600 it's again, it's not audible voices. 2299 02:17:11.760 --> 02:17:11.879 Right. 2300 02:17:12.000 --> 02:17:14.920 So Jesus answers this very question by saying, go to 2301 02:17:15.000 --> 02:17:17.760 the scriptures and study them, and you will see that 2302 02:17:18.040 --> 02:17:20.319 they have all kinds of things that show them to 2303 02:17:20.440 --> 02:17:25.399 be miraculous. Right, they predict the coming of them Assiah. 2304 02:17:25.440 --> 02:17:28.559 Look up the messianic prophecies start there, and then you'll 2305 02:17:28.600 --> 02:17:31.399 start to see that the book itself is of divine inspiration. 2306 02:17:31.559 --> 02:17:36.479 That's the visible proof argument that Jesus uses. Right, he 2307 02:17:36.600 --> 02:17:40.479 has no problem just saying, look, if people rise from 2308 02:17:40.520 --> 02:17:42.760 the dead, that's not going to convince somebody. If they're 2309 02:17:42.799 --> 02:17:44.920 not going to be convinced by the predictions of the 2310 02:17:45.360 --> 02:17:47.079 law and the prophets, they're not going to be convinced 2311 02:17:47.079 --> 02:17:51.479 by anything. So what I'm saying is, go and look 2312 02:17:51.520 --> 02:17:54.440 at the Messianic prophecies. I mean you responded by saying, oh, okay, 2313 02:17:54.440 --> 02:17:56.040 I went and read scriptures, but I don't see it. 2314 02:17:56.879 --> 02:17:58.840 Do you even know what you're reading? That's what I'm saying, Like, 2315 02:17:58.879 --> 02:18:01.319 you have to understand what you're reading, right, I'm not 2316 02:18:01.440 --> 02:18:03.920 saying just look at this verse, like, read the thing 2317 02:18:04.079 --> 02:18:07.840 and understand that there are prophecies of when the Messiah 2318 02:18:07.879 --> 02:18:10.120 will come, what he will do. Right, the Book of 2319 02:18:10.200 --> 02:18:20.079 Isaiah start there, So man light is right, Lucius for 2320 02:18:20.159 --> 02:18:26.600 three dollars, what is the Orthodox position on why people 2321 02:18:26.639 --> 02:18:30.120 are born with incapacitating illnesses? Well, because of the fall. 2322 02:18:30.440 --> 02:18:34.000 I mean all illnesses, all death, all decay, all of 2323 02:18:34.079 --> 02:18:38.399 that comes as a result of Adam's fall. I don't 2324 02:18:38.440 --> 02:18:40.600 know how how else to answer that. That's just another 2325 02:18:41.000 --> 02:18:44.319 problem of evil question, but thank you for that. Lucius 2326 02:18:44.440 --> 02:18:47.399 Militaris three fifty three. What is the Seraph and Rose 2327 02:18:47.440 --> 02:18:51.280 book on Genesis and Creation? Genesis Creation Early Man? And 2328 02:18:51.360 --> 02:18:54.239 I'm sorry it does appear to be out of print. 2329 02:18:54.719 --> 02:18:57.479 I was looking the other day at a lot of 2330 02:18:57.559 --> 02:18:59.639 different places and sites as to where it might be 2331 02:18:59.680 --> 02:19:03.479 perfect just and I couldn't find any. So I'm sorry 2332 02:19:03.600 --> 02:19:08.479 to say that that book appears to be gone. I 2333 02:19:08.600 --> 02:19:12.920 mean not gone, but I don't I mean you can't 2334 02:19:13.040 --> 02:19:16.159 get it for like under nine hundred dollars. Every place 2335 02:19:16.280 --> 02:19:18.200 has that book for sale for nine There may be 2336 02:19:18.239 --> 02:19:22.559 a PDF floating round, but physical copies apparently are sparse 2337 02:19:22.600 --> 02:19:25.639 because it's out of print. But maybe if you drove 2338 02:19:25.760 --> 02:19:28.159 to a monastery or a bookstore somewhere, you can find it. 2339 02:19:30.239 --> 02:19:30.559 About you. 2340 02:19:30.760 --> 02:19:32.120 Yes, this Creation early means. 2341 02:19:34.479 --> 02:19:35.719 Oh, I think he's talking about. 2342 02:19:38.319 --> 02:19:42.120 Yeah. Anyway, So I am going to continue this talk. 2343 02:19:42.159 --> 02:19:44.120 I think we'll close up the Q and A. I'm 2344 02:19:44.120 --> 02:19:47.479 gonna keep going because I did say I would do this, 2345 02:19:47.879 --> 02:19:53.479 and it is time to finally dude the Pelicon book. 2346 02:19:53.959 --> 02:19:56.239 So I'm not going to end the stream. I think 2347 02:19:56.280 --> 02:19:59.159 we'll close up the Q and A part and then 2348 02:19:59.200 --> 02:20:02.040 if anybody wants to continue with me here on YouTube, 2349 02:20:02.040 --> 02:20:05.239 I'll just continue doing this stream. But I'm not going 2350 02:20:05.280 --> 02:20:07.040 to keep doing the Q and A part. I want 2351 02:20:07.079 --> 02:20:11.879 to get into early church the development of the Patristic 2352 02:20:11.959 --> 02:20:15.799 tradition from Pelicon's book, because I did say months ago 2353 02:20:15.799 --> 02:20:16.200 I would do. 2354 02:20:16.280 --> 02:20:17.280 This, and. 2355 02:20:18.799 --> 02:20:22.040 Church of Eternal Logos tonight will do our part two 2356 02:20:22.159 --> 02:20:23.760 in the next few days. Jamie and I will do 2357 02:20:23.840 --> 02:20:26.440 our part two in the next few days. And thank 2358 02:20:26.479 --> 02:20:29.440 you to all you guys on the discord for chipping in, 2359 02:20:29.639 --> 02:20:31.399 and I'll put everybody's links and whatnot. 2360 02:20:32.479 --> 02:20:34.680 J before you cut off, If if I could ask, 2361 02:20:35.280 --> 02:20:37.520 did you want to maybe make an announcement with regards 2362 02:20:37.559 --> 02:20:40.920 to what is Seminin's Metropolitan Joonna has. 2363 02:20:40.879 --> 02:20:44.520 Planned for the server, Uh, sure, if you want, If 2364 02:20:44.600 --> 02:20:46.879 you want to go ahead and announce it, go ahead. 2365 02:20:46.760 --> 02:20:47.639 Yeah, I can just announce this. 2366 02:20:47.719 --> 02:20:52.200 So we're waiting on some more information hopefully forthcoming next 2367 02:20:52.280 --> 02:20:57.040 week sometime, but his eminence, Metropolitan Joonah has offered to 2368 02:20:57.200 --> 02:21:01.399 start up a weekly ctaschtical lecture your series right here 2369 02:21:01.559 --> 02:21:05.120 on Jay's discord, so stay tuned for that. We'll make 2370 02:21:05.239 --> 02:21:10.120 some more prominent announcements as we get more information, but 2371 02:21:10.200 --> 02:21:13.000 hopefully next week we'll we'll have a set time and 2372 02:21:13.079 --> 02:21:14.559 date when all this stuff is going to happen. 2373 02:21:16.120 --> 02:21:19.559 And they're reminded to everyone watching the stream, if you want, 2374 02:21:19.920 --> 02:21:21.399 please do come to the discord. 2375 02:21:21.520 --> 02:21:24.680 I'll break you personally myself. We'll ask all your dumb questions. 2376 02:21:25.040 --> 02:21:26.879 Blah blah blah blah. Love all of you. 2377 02:21:27.600 --> 02:21:30.079 Jay, make sure to put my Twitter down there because 2378 02:21:30.079 --> 02:21:31.280 I won that Internet cloud. 2379 02:21:31.520 --> 02:21:33.040 You know, I know I will do that for all 2380 02:21:33.079 --> 02:21:33.239 of you. 2381 02:21:34.000 --> 02:21:37.879 By the way, hop over to Sam Shimunt Shimonian's channel. 2382 02:21:38.040 --> 02:21:41.559 He did an interview with Craig on the Orthodox view 2383 02:21:41.559 --> 02:21:43.639 of Salvation and I listened to as much of it 2384 02:21:43.680 --> 02:21:46.280 as I could and it's actually really, really, really good. 2385 02:21:46.440 --> 02:21:50.520 So go and watch it after Jay's finished. 2386 02:21:51.159 --> 02:21:54.120 Yeah yeah, yeah, after guys, am I going to be 2387 02:21:54.200 --> 02:21:57.799 cutting into a lot of people's streams. Is Cotel doing one? 2388 02:21:57.879 --> 02:22:00.520 I don't know, It's okay. I mean everybody can eventually 2389 02:22:00.600 --> 02:22:03.159 watched come back and wash. Yeah, yeah, it's not a 2390 02:22:03.200 --> 02:22:05.280 big deal. How many of people watching live. But I 2391 02:22:05.360 --> 02:22:07.399 am going to cover because I've got so many notes 2392 02:22:07.479 --> 02:22:12.159 on on Pelican, I took hundreds of pages of notes, 2393 02:22:12.200 --> 02:22:13.840 and I also have hundreds of pages of notes, well 2394 02:22:13.879 --> 02:22:16.520 about a hundred pages of notes on the medieval Heresy Book, 2395 02:22:16.520 --> 02:22:16.840 which all