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Speaker 1: Dire wave. The scientific method cannot justify the scientific method.

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Therefore itself, it is a dogmatical presupposition. It's a lovely

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man voice.

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Speaker 2: Not a effeminine positive defamation.

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Speaker 1: Yes, welcome, we're live. I think should be good. We're here,

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and today it's a little bit different. We're going to

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have my discord with me because I'm scared. I need

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all my backup people because I'm afraid of Ejahs and

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all the Muslim I'm joking not but we're going to

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do Q and A or stump or debate or whatever. Now,

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if you just want to come on voice and ask questions,

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you can do that through the discord. I'll put the

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link in in a second. If you want to come

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on a video debate, I have a zoom link open

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as well, and I can send you that link. So

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we offered. Ejaz said he was ready, he was ready

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to go, ready to debate. We've offered for months and

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months and months to set up a debate with this guy.

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Anyone doing so He says, oh, I don't mean today,

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even though he said I'm ready to go. Anyway, we

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will do Q and A. We'll do Q and A. Also

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we have a. We have all the discord wirdos here.

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What's up?

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Speaker 2: Yeah, you get debate Jordan Peterson if you want.

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Speaker 1: If he wants, you got him right here.

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Speaker 2: Okay, I'm ready to debate. I can debate anyone right now,

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ready to go.

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Speaker 1: So if you don't want to come on audio, thank you, Jordan. Uh,

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you can also leave me a stream lab super chat

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question or challenge right, it's it's the challenge is open.

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We make it really easy to debate, Like, it's super

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easy to come debate. There's no hoops. You don't have

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to jump through hoops to come debate here. It's very easy.

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And now I've even opened it up to audio, so

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that is the link there. If you want to join

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the discord, you will have to be vetted, of course first,

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to come in the discord. You can't just everybody can't.

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Just pile and read the rules, rules, questions, and then

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you'll be vetted. And after you're vetted and we decide

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that you have the balls, we'll let you come in. Yeah,

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what it toos, you're not late? Welcome?

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Speaker 3: All right?

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Speaker 1: We got a good crowd here. Be sure to leave

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a like and a thumb up. Well that's the same

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thing and then also share it super chats. Thank you,

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okay as a mod there, he's putting the stream lab

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superchat there as a rough outline I'll be covering just

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because we're probably waiting for people to come in if

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they want to. We got a couple of Roman Catholics

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in the in the in the discord right now. I

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don't know if they're going to come in, but we've

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got the emergence of the Catholic tradition, the excellent Yarslav

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Pelican book. I'll use that as a rough outline for

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topics to discuss. But you can talk about whatever you

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want if you want to ask me questions about philosophy,

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if he challenge me, this is we got. I got

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incense burning up in here to make to set the ambiance.

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I saw one of them, p u a guys. He

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always lights incense before he starts his live stream, so

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I thought i'd rip him off into that. So I've

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lit incense. We've got the ambiance. We got the whiteboard here.

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If you're Muslim, if you're Rumman, Catholic, if you're set

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of a contest, if you're Protestant, Calvinist, evangelical, atheist, even

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if you're Jewish, or you're welcome to come and ask

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your questions, debate, challenge whatever if you want to. Now

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I'm not smoking weed, it's just incense. Pro If you

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want to come into the voice chat, go to the discord,

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join the discord. There's the link at my Twitter. Let

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me see if I get the actual just the discord link. Now,

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you know you gotta go to the you gotta go

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to the Twitter. That way, we can't have we can't

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just have everybody pulling in there, so you got to

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go to my Twitter. Catholic nonsense. Somebody said the chat anyway,

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what's up discord? Anybody? Is anybody in the discord right now?

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I know we got a full room. Does anybody want

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to come on the live stream and give us some

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chat material, questions, challenges?

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Speaker 3: Silence?

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Speaker 1: I mean we had I know, I know. So we

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opened this up today because we had a lot of

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Muslims talking and you know, making a lot of fuss,

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and so we opened it up. We had two or

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three Muslims talking smack all over Twitter. And then I said,

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come on, I even I'll even let you on here.

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Well we'll do a live stream. We'll start at the

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live stream, come on and debate Bra, debate me, Bra,

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and the dudes just left. We at least the dude

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that was talking to Smack left, So so I thought

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we were going to have some That link has expired. No,

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it's not. Go to my Twitter. At the top is

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an unexpired link. If that link was wrong, then go

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to my Twitter and then the latest link is not expired.

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I can't be expired. It's an hour old, not expired.

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Uh all right, let me try. Let me get another

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link for you guys, and it's expired. Okay, rest in peace.

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Let me get another link that shouldn't be expired after

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hour though, I don't know whatever. We got Father Deacon

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and Ias in the house. We got Lewis. We got

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a lot of our old old discord friends all here

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with us, old timers, old timers because of course we're

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all scared. We got to have a mob, right we have.

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We have to have backup because none of us individually

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can handle anybody in a debate.

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Speaker 4: Or Yeah, finding Muslim people to debate is like trying

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to herd cats.

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Speaker 2: We can't find them. Right. We got the chebar Ali debate.

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Speaker 4: Okay, he did great in that I think shaver ally

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comported himself honorarily. And then now suddenly everyone's scared. Now

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it's no debate, no one debate Jane, and we.

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Speaker 2: Can't find them.

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Speaker 4: So it's like they accused lots of ox Christians is

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being scared.

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Speaker 2: We offered the debate.

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Speaker 1: I mean, we've said we've done three debates with Muslims, now,

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so how are we scared?

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Speaker 2: It's just nonsense, yeah, exactly.

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Speaker 4: And then they set up conditions that they want to groups.

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Speaker 2: For us to jump.

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Speaker 1: You don't debate me on a blood moon, on a leap,

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ear in the middle of Texas in an underground cave

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at two am. Then and we have to debate only

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in morse code I want to be and it has.

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Speaker 4: To be you have to wear seal skins and it

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has to be more code.

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Speaker 2: But you have to write haiku and then you have

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to record that morse.

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Speaker 4: Code onto slate tablets, and then you have to have

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a blind.

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Speaker 1: Man readout has to be translated into Hebrew and then

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written on vellum.

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Speaker 4: Yeah, it's like okay, it's like, how about the.

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Speaker 2: Next thing. It would be give me ten million dollars

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and I'll debate you.

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Speaker 1: That'll be the next thing, I require a debater's fee

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of half a million dollars to appear.

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Speaker 5: I have three goods and four CAFs.

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Speaker 2: Please, I would also my way, all right, so read

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check out? Yeah as well, guys.

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Speaker 1: The debate has to be done in sign language or Braille.

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If you don't do an animal sacrifice, if you don't

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do it in braill, it's because you're low.

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Speaker 2: Like yeah, all.

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Speaker 1: Right, so, uh, you guys, just you guys interrupt me.

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You guys can interrupt me if somebody comes in, if

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they want to do is there anybody who has any

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questions or challenges or or debate topics issues? I think

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I shared the newer link, by the way, so there's

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the new link if you want to come in. Uh,

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there will be people vetting people right now, so you

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guys can come in. I'm not talking to any I'm

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talking to you. Who am I talking to to you?

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In the chat?

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Speaker 2: Bro?

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Speaker 1: You Byzantine in the chat in the discord chat. You

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can come on. It's open, dude, We've got to open.

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Speaker 6: Can you tell people to change the AVI? Is the

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profile pictures on Discord from the default because we kind.

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Speaker 2: Of have a rule against that.

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Speaker 1: So yeah, so if you come into the dis you

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come into the discord, you got to do our rules,

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all right, So when you leave you can go back

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to whatever you want, but in our discord, please follow

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the rules.

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Speaker 2: Uh have a charge.

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Speaker 1: Okay, we don't really do no hintai avatars, no, no whatever,

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there we go.

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Speaker 2: No anime advatars.

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Speaker 1: Yeah, we don't do that.

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Speaker 2: You know this small us in the general.

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Speaker 1: Yeah, that's that's the guy from a couple of nights

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ago that we spent the whole night with. So, uh,

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he says he's going to come in. Here we get

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a uni E who says he'll come in. But we

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had this discussion for about three hours the other night.

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So now being mean to the guy, I'm just saying,

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I think I know where that chet's going to go,

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But if nobody's going to come in, I'll just kind

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of like wait until people come and I'll talk about

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some of the notes from Pelicon.

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Speaker 7: Go ahead, Yeah, Jay, So I've been watching your stuff

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for a while.

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Speaker 2: It's really interesting, But I was just wondering if you

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could like point to.

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Speaker 7: In the early church, any points where a father is

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saying that, you know, asking for the intercession of saints

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is Okay, it.

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Speaker 1: Gets explicitly mentioned up by the time that you're dealing

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with Augustine or with the Cappadocian saints Cyril in the

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categorical lectures I think mentions it. I know Augustine mentions

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it explicitly in multiple places in his writings. So yeah,

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I mean you can. You should be able to pretty

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easily google like church Father's intercession of the Saints, like

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that's not really too controversial of a topic.

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Speaker 7: Yeah, yeah, I mean I guess in my own research

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when I look into it, it seems kind of not

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like explicit, if that makes any sense.

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Speaker 1: Well, it is explicit when it becomes a question, right,

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So by the time of Jerome, actually Jerome talks about

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it explicitly when he writes multiple letters against like Vigilius

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and the other guy who questions relics and saints, and

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he writes this really funny treatise just making fun of

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the guy, telling him that he's basically possessed and he

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actually just needs to go touch the relics to get

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the demon out of him. So, I mean, he makes

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other arguments, but so Jerome has treatises explicitly on it.

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Augustine mentions it. I'm pretty sure it's in the catechortical

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lectures of Saint Cyril. But if by explicit mention, we

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can't think of it like there has to in the

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first century be a theological defense of every doctrine, or

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I won't believe it because there's all kinds of things

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that we wouldn't believe, right, I mean, we don't have

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a first second century mention of n hypostatized, but this

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becomes a crucial chrystological statement by the time of Saint

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Cyril and afterwards. So it's just it's just kind of

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like a bogus criteria to argue unless I see it

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explicitly defended or stated, you know, in the post appisode

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period on will believe it. Well, that's ludicrous. Nobody actually

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follows that. Like there's all kinds of crystological dogmas that

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most people believe that you wouldn't believe because it's not

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stated in the first, second, third century.

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Speaker 2: Okay, thanks, just coming for a Processant background.

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Speaker 1: Right, understand, understand, I mean, but I mean there's no uh,

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I mean, I could just turn that around to Protestant

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and say, where is the Protestant canon in the first

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second third century.

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Speaker 7: Yeah, of course, that's that's one thing that I've been

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sort of struggling with and you know, looking and listening

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to your talks, you know, and help me out understanding it.

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Speaker 1: Word right, Thanks, no problem. Yeah, so we got you're

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our first caller in the pseudo live call in stream. Welcome.

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You were my first ever. I don't really like the

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idea of calling streams, but whatever, I thought it'd be

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fun to try it out.

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Speaker 5: Long time listeners, Yeah, you're on the air.

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Speaker 1: I've got the documents, folks, you're on the air all right.

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By the way, only an intercession of the saints, I

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mean that's even in scripture, right, It's even it was

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even in the Jewish tradition prior to the Church, right.

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So I'm not saying that's true, because I'm just saying

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there's early attestations to that. There's prayer, prayers for the dead,

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and Maccabee's there's the idea of the intercession of the saints.

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Just comes from the idea of the intercession of saints

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on earth. Read the Book of Amos where he intercedes,

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and read you know, when Abraham intercedes, he saves the city. Well,

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in the Book of the Apocalypse four and five. The

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saints aren't dead. They're in heaven interceding, so they continue

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the work of salvation with us as they're in heaven.

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Speaker 3: Exactly.

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Speaker 8: That's also in the Book of James. In the Book

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of James, at some point Saint James, because of the Lord,

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says that we have to pray for one another. And

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in other places we know that people, even after the

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physically dies, alive in Christ. For if you can pray

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for one another, you can still do it on one

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specifically sat person is dead. And Saint Jame's also mentions

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the fact that the prey of the Righteous are especially powerful.

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Speaker 2: Yes, exactly, good prayer. So this is a scriptural there's

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a real spiritual.

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Speaker 8: Basis for all of it, and we can see it

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being attested in the early history of the Church and

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even in the Old Covenant.

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Speaker 2: There's a full continuity.

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Speaker 1: Right. Gert for three dollars says, what do you think

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about lucid dreams? Uh, we don't really. I mean there

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are lucid dreams. I've had lucid dreams, but we don't

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really pay attention to dreams and visions and this kind

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of stuff, which is not say it can never be done.

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But you need to be under the guidance of a

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spiritual father to be kind of looking into that kind

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of stuff, because we are very prone to delusion, and

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so most of the Holy Fathers and the Elders and

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our tradition warns against following dreams and visions and omens

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and this kind of stuff because we're just so easily

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deceived by that stuff. Father Deacon, you would agree with that.

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Speaker 5: Yeah, absolutely absolute. It's funny because in my department up

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in the office, you know, the Social Sciences building, and

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I was disgusting with one of the professors I think

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they were a psycho ecology professor, and they have this

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like reading group and they said, one of the things

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we do is we interpret dreams. And so this issue

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kind of came up from an Orthodox perspective.

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Speaker 2: So you have these groups of people that.

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Speaker 5: Will interpret dreams and trying to attached mean and so

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we Orthodox shy away from that just because you could

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think about all kinds of crazy stuff that the conclusions

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that you could come up from.

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Speaker 2: That's not something that we particularly would suggest is safe

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to do.

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Speaker 1: Let me ask you one go ahead.

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Speaker 4: I was just going to say, also, when you know,

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when a woman talks about our dreams, you just want

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to shoot yourself in the head.

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Speaker 2: So boring, So like, we don't really want to encourage.

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Speaker 1: Men to do that either, Father Deacon, could you give

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us a brief because we have a lot of people,

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I think in our chat who might be new to

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these topics, just a brief explanation of maybe, in contrast

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to Protestantism or Roman Catholicism, what is the spiritual Father

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and why is that important? Orthodoxy?

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Speaker 5: Yeah, So one thing that excuse me, that we worked

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about are keenly aware of in our practice and our theology.

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Speaker 2: Is what we call spiritual delusion. Priest and all of

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us have it.

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Speaker 5: And what I think so dangerous about spiritual delusion is

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that you don't know you have it, Whereas a temptation,

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it's very easy to IDENTI that the fact that you

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could actually be being manipulated by demons under the guise

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of something holy and spiritual impure is quite dangerous. Now,

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as far as I know, Protestants don't even have a concept.

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Speaker 2: Of having spiritual delusion.

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Speaker 5: They may talk about temptations and correct me if I'm wrong.

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In my study of Roman Catholicism, I don't think it's

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even addressed, is a concept of something existing. And I

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think it's really important that not only do Protestants not

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have a concept of being spiritually deluded, but have no

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mechanism on how to cure that and treat them. And

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I would say this is something that's so important in Orthodoxy.

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Speaker 2: Why we have a spiritual Father is that if we.

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Speaker 5: All assume I'm constantly being manipulated by demons, not only

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in temptations, but being spiritually deluded and thinking that oh,

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this is from God, or this is something holy that

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I should be doing, maybe I should maybe God's telling

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me to interpret people's dreams or something like that. How

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do you know that you're not deluded? Well, you don't

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if you are the problem. And so this is what's

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so important about having a spiritual Father is there's somebody

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who's experienced and has the credential spiritually speaking, that can

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have proper discernment and the way that spiritual delusion and

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the whole spiritual progress as well is acquired through obedience

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and repentance With an Orthodoxy, so we're really going to

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stress that means we don't rely on our own abilities.

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In fact, we're going to admit we're incapable of healing

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ourselves and getting ourselves out.

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Speaker 2: Of the you know, the muck.

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Speaker 5: And so what we turn to is an advanced physician

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of souls who's experienced, and.

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Speaker 2: We make ourselves obedience.

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Speaker 5: So, as we say in Orthodoxy, there is no spiritual problem.

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Speaker 2: You can read all.

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Speaker 5: The theology books that you want, You can go to

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school and get all the degrees and never make any

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spiritual progress. So the whole point of Orthodoxy is to

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make spiritual progress to heal ourselves.

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Speaker 2: And you need a physician. And so you make.

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Speaker 5: Yourself obedient, even as hard as it may be that

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your spiritual father tells you something you're like, I don't

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agree with that. Part of the obedience is I'm no

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longer going to trust in my own abilities, and I'm

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going to listen to the spiritual Father. And because the

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spiritual Father, the priest is a sacrament, there is grace bestowed.

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So even in the faults of individual men is priests,

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the grace of God still comes through that sacrament and

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that office.

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Speaker 3: And so.

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Speaker 5: When you're obedient to your spiritual Father, you're blessed. You're

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blessed by God, and you begin to again, a spiritual

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father is somebody that's like a counselor and a doctor

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that knows you, knows your spiritual medical history. And this

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is why what you don't want to do is being

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jumping around from different priests and making confessions, and you

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need one spiritual doctor who is taking care.

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Speaker 2: Of you and can help you in your own repentance.

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Speaker 5: So I'd say that's something unique about Orthodox that not

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only do we have the concept that we're all spiritually diluted,

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we have the mechanism in place in the structure of

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the church over the last two thousand years for dealing

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with that. So that's not something a lot of people

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talk about.

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Speaker 2: But I'm Jay, I'm glad you brought that up.

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Speaker 1: Yeah, well, we got some questions about that because people

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thought that I was saying that you can't talk about

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a dream. No, what I said was that it's in

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the Orthodox tradition, you have a guide, right, Paul talks

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about being Timothy's spiritual father, So you have a guide

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that you know helps you sort of discern who's actually

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been down the road already. That's the point here. It's

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not that you can't talk about these things. In fact,

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you should talk about these things with your spiritual father. Now,

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it is correct that a lot of times it's hard

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to find a spiritual father, especially in America, so that's difficult.

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Father Deacon. If you're not talking, can you mute because

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there's kind of like a staticky f back and whatnot.

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That's okay, but you're welcome to definitely talk. But thank

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you for that. So, by the way, and the guys

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in the chat, I'm not saying you can't talk about that,

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but and there's Lewis and Kai and Grido. There's a

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guy who's a Roman Catholic named Tony g He says

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he's trying to get in the discord. Oh okay, Tony,

389
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are you there? And for those yeah, hold on for

390
00:25:26,519 --> 00:25:30,440
the hold on. If you're not talking, please mute. Guys

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in the YouTube chat, this is discord, all right. It's

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not a guest on the show. If you want to

393
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come into the discord and chat, you're welcome to. As

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of now, it's ghetto set up, so I don't have

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a better way to do it, so there we go

396
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go ahead. Guy, what's up?

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Speaker 2: Bro?

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Speaker 9: Hey Jay, I'm a Roman Catholic bit of a layman.

399
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I just had a quick question. You often say a

400
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movie portray real life. I appreciate the work you do

401
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as far as the esoteric work. I just wanted to

402
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know the Orthodoxy position on spiritual battle as far as

403
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demonic possessions and you know, demonic things that are in

404
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living people's houses, because you know, we always see Roman Catholic.

405
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Speaker 2: Priests the forefront.

406
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Speaker 9: As far as handling this battle, I just wanted to

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know the Orthodoxy position on debt.

408
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Speaker 10: Yeah, if you're not talking pretty mute, yeah, yeah.

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Speaker 1: Of course Orthodox Orthodoxy does house blessings. The priests do

410
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this like once a year they go around and do

411
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house blessing, So there's there's no difference between the Orthodox

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and Catholic view of that kind of stuff of sacramental theology,

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blessing the house, blessing water, blessing rivers. I mean, this

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is very common in the Orthodox Church. So of course

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we believe in the reality of spiritual warfare. I mean

416
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all of the spiritual ascetic writing is about battling the demons.

417
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If you read Larsay's trilogy, I mean Larchais wrote this

418
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gigantic trilogy Therapy of Spiritual Illness, and it's all about

419
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how all of the vices, you could say, are kind

420
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of like battling demons. This is all just from the

421
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Father's philocalia. So I would argue that really Orthodoxy is

422
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who continues this tradition. I mean, we have a lot

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of monastics in Orthodoxy, Monasticism and ro Catholicism is basically vanishing.

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So I would say, definitely check out somebody like a father,

425
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but not Father, but Jean Claude Larcher therapy of spiritual illnesses,

426
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which would answer your question.

427
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Speaker 2: I definitely appreciate the comments.

428
00:27:34,319 --> 00:27:34,519
Speaker 1: Yep.

429
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Speaker 5: Also, Father Georgia Korro is really good at He's an

430
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Orthodox priest that has a lot of experience with possessions

431
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and exorcisms.

432
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Speaker 1: Oh yeah, that's who you mentioned in the past. We

433
00:27:52,200 --> 00:27:57,200
need to do it interview with him, Yes, exactly, Ulson says,

434
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for seven dollars, here's my imp to roasting you. I'm

435
00:28:01,920 --> 00:28:04,480
late to the game. People won't debate you because you're

436
00:28:04,519 --> 00:28:08,440
doing brain keto royds. No, sorry, bro, that's that's not

437
00:28:08,480 --> 00:28:10,799
a good joke. It would be fair to say that

438
00:28:10,880 --> 00:28:13,680
ninety percent of your audience is happy that you did

439
00:28:13,720 --> 00:28:17,799
not become I can't read the rest of that. Sorry,

440
00:28:17,599 --> 00:28:19,839
he remember if you if you send me a super

441
00:28:19,880 --> 00:28:22,720
chat on stream labs, I can only see one long sentence.

442
00:28:22,759 --> 00:28:25,759
I can't see a gigantic paragraph. But even though I

443
00:28:25,759 --> 00:28:28,640
appreciate the seven dollars, a Ulson, that joke was kind

444
00:28:28,640 --> 00:28:32,440
of lame. Bag. I tell for ten dollars, says, what

445
00:28:32,480 --> 00:28:35,039
do you think about the Finnish Orthodox Church. I don't

446
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have any knowledge of the Finnish Orthodox Church, Father deacon,

447
00:28:37,319 --> 00:28:38,319
do you hadn't know anything about this.

448
00:28:41,839 --> 00:28:44,720
Speaker 2: I think they're pretty good. I think they're technically under

449
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the EP. But as far as I've heard of it,

450
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I haven't heard any problems.

451
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Speaker 1: With he says, with my finished roots, I would feel

452
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like it's more natural to join that, But people from

453
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the Russian Church tend to speak against it. I don't know.

454
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I don't know the drama.

455
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Speaker 5: That's because there's a you gotta know the history between

456
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Finland and Russia, right.

457
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Speaker 1: I don't know what is what is the isue, so.

458
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Speaker 5: You know, acquiring lands and wars and stuff like that.

459
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So there there's some sensitivity with that. That's not a

460
00:29:24,079 --> 00:29:30,480
theological issue. That's a cultural, a cultural issue. I don't

461
00:29:31,000 --> 00:29:36,160
personally I imagine this person's asking in Finland because I'm

462
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trying to think, like what other Finnish.

463
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Speaker 2: Orthodox churches there are outside of Finland.

464
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Speaker 1: I mean it sounds like that's what he means.

465
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Speaker 4: Yeah, yeah, I was just gonna say, I'm ethnically finish,

466
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and our greatest hero is our greatest hero because he

467
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killed like a lot of Russians.

468
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Speaker 3: Like a lot.

469
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Speaker 2: Yeah you know, do you know what I'm talking about? Yeah, so,

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like a lot of Russia.

471
00:30:03,839 --> 00:30:05,799
Speaker 4: Like he killed a lot of Russian so and that

472
00:30:05,839 --> 00:30:07,079
guy's out national hero.

473
00:30:07,359 --> 00:30:12,039
Speaker 2: So like Russian Finland relations are still sketchy to this day.

474
00:30:12,359 --> 00:30:14,680
Speaker 1: So basically, you're defending du that is what you're saying.

475
00:30:14,680 --> 00:30:15,880
You're here to defend.

476
00:30:16,960 --> 00:30:20,799
Speaker 2: Yes, I am a douan Is, but I get we must.

477
00:30:21,079 --> 00:30:23,680
Speaker 1: We must train the American the right wing to take

478
00:30:23,799 --> 00:30:25,079
down America.

479
00:30:25,960 --> 00:30:27,200
Speaker 2: The Dougan Bitcoin.

480
00:30:27,400 --> 00:30:30,119
Speaker 4: I get that, and I share before Jed Dire and

481
00:30:30,200 --> 00:30:31,119
kJ be on Twitter.

482
00:30:33,119 --> 00:30:33,359
Speaker 11: Uh.

483
00:30:33,400 --> 00:30:40,640
Speaker 1: Anyway, is there anybody in the discord that wants to

484
00:30:40,680 --> 00:30:41,160
speak up?

485
00:30:42,440 --> 00:30:43,440
Speaker 2: Yeah? I had another question?

486
00:30:43,480 --> 00:30:43,599
Speaker 3: Is that?

487
00:30:43,720 --> 00:30:44,000
Speaker 2: Okay?

488
00:30:44,200 --> 00:30:44,400
Speaker 1: Sure?

489
00:30:46,240 --> 00:30:47,400
Speaker 2: A bit of a lament question.

490
00:30:48,160 --> 00:30:51,079
Speaker 9: During this gism when the church is separated, I wanted

491
00:30:51,119 --> 00:30:54,119
to know how it worked when it came to going

492
00:30:54,119 --> 00:30:57,200
to battle together against you know, Islam and the Crusades.

493
00:30:57,240 --> 00:30:59,119
Speaker 2: How did all that come together? Did they you know,

494
00:30:59,200 --> 00:31:00,599
get together and it was.

495
00:31:00,559 --> 00:31:02,759
Speaker 9: Okay for that time when they just separated, you know,

496
00:31:02,920 --> 00:31:04,519
just a little bit of clarity on that situation.

497
00:31:05,279 --> 00:31:08,000
Speaker 1: No, I mean the Byzantium was sacked. What do you mean?

498
00:31:13,119 --> 00:31:15,640
Speaker 2: I was wondering because the schism was in ten fifty.

499
00:31:15,359 --> 00:31:24,160
Speaker 1: Four correct officially, Yeah.

500
00:31:21,759 --> 00:31:24,519
Speaker 2: And the Crusade were a little bit after that, correct.

501
00:31:25,039 --> 00:31:27,359
Speaker 1: Yeah, there were there were at camps.

502
00:31:27,880 --> 00:31:30,880
Speaker 5: Yeah, there were several attempts to kind of unite, and

503
00:31:32,240 --> 00:31:36,799
that offered, uh, what we thought would be kind of

504
00:31:36,799 --> 00:31:43,599
a promising lead to possibly be united in something, and

505
00:31:43,640 --> 00:31:48,160
it kind of backfired. As Jade pointed out, Byzantium was

506
00:31:48,240 --> 00:31:52,119
under attack, and uh, we thought that we could unite

507
00:31:52,599 --> 00:31:56,119
and call for the help of the Latins and it

508
00:31:56,160 --> 00:31:57,000
really didn't.

509
00:31:56,759 --> 00:31:57,960
Speaker 2: Work out well.

510
00:31:58,160 --> 00:32:01,839
Speaker 1: No, the Latins eventually sack the Latin Bysanthium eventually.

511
00:32:04,319 --> 00:32:06,359
Speaker 2: Okay, man, you guys, I appreciates the answer.

512
00:32:06,440 --> 00:32:11,839
Speaker 1: Man, Yeah, I'm wrong, dude, Hey Jay, yes, sir.

513
00:32:14,079 --> 00:32:16,720
Speaker 12: I only have a minute, but I did wanna I

514
00:32:16,759 --> 00:32:19,680
guess ask you already know me as far as we

515
00:32:19,839 --> 00:32:22,279
talked for a really long time yesterday or the day before.

516
00:32:24,839 --> 00:32:27,160
If you remember, you probably talked to a million people.

517
00:32:27,480 --> 00:32:31,759
But anyway, I guess my question is okay, good.

518
00:32:36,200 --> 00:32:37,000
Speaker 1: Your question as well.

519
00:32:39,359 --> 00:32:40,359
Speaker 2: Craized Latin.

520
00:32:41,319 --> 00:32:47,599
Speaker 12: I guess the clitice learned about extraordinary form, visit team,

521
00:32:47,799 --> 00:32:49,640
all that kind of stuff, as well as the Orthodox

522
00:32:50,160 --> 00:33:00,400
UH spent about tens visiting Eastern parish Orthodox parishes to

523
00:33:00,480 --> 00:33:01,000
the priests.

524
00:33:01,640 --> 00:33:03,799
Speaker 1: Yeah, I remember the story. You don't have to. I'm

525
00:33:03,839 --> 00:33:09,920
not trying to be mean, but I remember. You're cutting out.

526
00:33:09,960 --> 00:33:10,079
Speaker 2: Bro.

527
00:33:13,160 --> 00:33:15,839
Speaker 1: If you want to leave the discord and then pop

528
00:33:15,960 --> 00:33:19,160
back in, it usually resets the setting. So maybe you

529
00:33:19,200 --> 00:33:21,319
won't be cutting out, but you're cutting out right now.

530
00:33:23,799 --> 00:33:28,119
Speaker 12: Kristen diving into the possibility that she might be in

531
00:33:28,160 --> 00:33:28,480
the wrong.

532
00:33:28,880 --> 00:33:29,000
Speaker 3: Bro.

533
00:33:29,960 --> 00:33:32,119
Speaker 1: But it Hey, I didn't hear any of that. You

534
00:33:32,240 --> 00:33:36,480
cut out for all that, damn, so so exit and

535
00:33:36,640 --> 00:33:37,039
come back.

536
00:33:38,319 --> 00:33:42,160
Speaker 2: All right, all right? But oh the joys discord.

537
00:33:44,039 --> 00:33:46,640
Speaker 4: If people want to ask a question and you don't

538
00:33:46,640 --> 00:33:48,839
want to hope on stream, just go. If you're in

539
00:33:48,880 --> 00:33:52,200
the discord, go to voice text General. I tagged everyone there.

540
00:33:52,480 --> 00:33:54,559
You can ask questions and I'll see them.

541
00:33:54,599 --> 00:33:54,960
Speaker 2: To Jay.

542
00:33:56,160 --> 00:33:59,720
Speaker 1: This is the first ghetto pale attempt at a call

543
00:33:59,839 --> 00:34:02,160
in show. I don't even like the idea of Collin shows,

544
00:34:02,200 --> 00:34:06,119
but we were trying to get okay, well, well we

545
00:34:06,200 --> 00:34:07,519
were trying to get it. We were trying to get

546
00:34:07,640 --> 00:34:10,000
Is to come debate, and he wouldn't do it.

547
00:34:10,239 --> 00:34:15,000
Speaker 2: But we got a question, what's.

548
00:34:14,840 --> 00:34:19,079
Speaker 4: The explanation of Noah's sons and grandsons having different features

549
00:34:19,199 --> 00:34:20,159
and skin color?

550
00:34:24,639 --> 00:34:28,159
Speaker 1: Why does it need an explanation? What I mean, people

551
00:34:28,559 --> 00:34:33,639
go into different climates and there's a symbiotic relationship between

552
00:34:33,960 --> 00:34:37,960
you know, people's physiognomy and their environments. I mean, there's

553
00:34:38,000 --> 00:34:41,639
nothing wrong with adaptation. And you know, yeah, people go

554
00:34:41,760 --> 00:34:45,480
into southerly climates, they're gonna you know, gradually developed, you know,

555
00:34:46,000 --> 00:34:50,119
darker scin or whatever. I don't see why that's even controversial.

556
00:34:51,880 --> 00:34:52,960
Speaker 2: Okay, we got another one.

557
00:34:53,440 --> 00:34:55,320
Speaker 4: What would you say to people who tell you the

558
00:34:55,400 --> 00:34:59,760
Bible is impossible because of dinosaurs skeletons existing.

559
00:35:01,400 --> 00:35:04,400
Speaker 1: Well, there's two possible answers. I think that anything that

560
00:35:04,519 --> 00:35:09,880
modern science proposes that is bound up with Darwinian naturalism

561
00:35:10,000 --> 00:35:13,679
can be legitimately doubted, and we have a basis to

562
00:35:13,719 --> 00:35:16,920
be skeptical of. So there's a lot of questions about quote,

563
00:35:17,000 --> 00:35:20,519
dinosaur skeletons to begin with. But even if they are real,

564
00:35:21,440 --> 00:35:23,800
the Book of Job speaks of all kinds of things

565
00:35:23,840 --> 00:35:26,599
that could absolutely be a dinosaurs. So there's nothing inherently

566
00:35:26,800 --> 00:35:32,119
contradicting about either position is conceivably defensible.

567
00:35:33,320 --> 00:35:36,199
Speaker 4: Yeah, Behemos is a good example of what could possibly

568
00:35:36,280 --> 00:35:37,039
be a dinosaur.

569
00:35:37,719 --> 00:35:41,320
Speaker 2: Saying, okay, another one, do you think.

570
00:35:41,199 --> 00:35:44,000
Speaker 4: That the Orthodox and Catholic Church could unite in some

571
00:35:44,199 --> 00:35:47,440
way in the future. Personally, I couldn't see it. I'm

572
00:35:47,480 --> 00:35:49,559
not sure what your take is, Jay, So I just

573
00:35:49,639 --> 00:35:51,280
wanted to ask and know your side.

574
00:35:51,800 --> 00:35:54,840
Speaker 1: No, I mean, there's our like if you look at

575
00:35:54,920 --> 00:35:58,000
Metropolitan surfim Prius, he wrote a long letter to Francis.

576
00:35:58,440 --> 00:36:02,320
He's a famous Greek Conservative bishop. He wrote a long

577
00:36:02,440 --> 00:36:06,800
letter saying the thirty four or five elements that the

578
00:36:06,880 --> 00:36:09,519
two churches could not unite over. That would have to change.

579
00:36:09,760 --> 00:36:13,800
So that's the classical Orthodox position. It doesn't matter what

580
00:36:13,920 --> 00:36:16,639
modern and humanists say. You have to adhere to the

581
00:36:16,760 --> 00:36:20,000
traditional arguments that we've always made on the basis of

582
00:36:20,039 --> 00:36:22,920
the canons and the councils as to what the elements

583
00:36:23,039 --> 00:36:26,199
of change and innovation in Rome are. Right in the

584
00:36:26,239 --> 00:36:28,760
Middle Ages, in the East. They were called Byzantine lists,

585
00:36:29,280 --> 00:36:31,119
and these are the lists of the problems that we

586
00:36:31,199 --> 00:36:35,800
have with Rome, things like forbidding pedro communion, forbidding married priests.

587
00:36:36,199 --> 00:36:38,000
Those are just one of the many, right, there's a

588
00:36:38,039 --> 00:36:41,280
whole bunch of other ones, like philioque and that kind

589
00:36:41,280 --> 00:36:44,559
of stuff. Obviously comes first. Papacy. Those are the main issues,

590
00:36:44,599 --> 00:36:45,920
but there's a bunch of other issues too.

591
00:36:47,880 --> 00:36:50,639
Speaker 4: Okay, now the question these questions are rolling in, so

592
00:36:50,840 --> 00:36:54,400
thanks to everyone in the discord, can you discuss the

593
00:36:54,519 --> 00:36:59,639
difference in Protestant Christus Victor versus Orthodox attirement?

594
00:37:02,679 --> 00:37:06,880
Speaker 1: Well, Christus Victor is an attempt to borrow elements of

595
00:37:07,079 --> 00:37:12,239
Patristic ideas. So there's nothing inherently anti Orthodox about some

596
00:37:12,360 --> 00:37:16,760
of the ideas of Christa's Victor. Because the Lutheran theologian

597
00:37:16,840 --> 00:37:18,400
that I think it was a Lutheran guy who went

598
00:37:18,519 --> 00:37:21,800
back and tried to reconstruct different theories of atonement from

599
00:37:21,840 --> 00:37:25,039
the Patristic period. He's just borrowing from different church fathers

600
00:37:25,079 --> 00:37:27,800
and different ideas. So I would actually argue that the

601
00:37:29,119 --> 00:37:33,000
Orthodox position has the correct elements of all the positions, right,

602
00:37:33,159 --> 00:37:35,440
So all of the positions have elements. Is there a

603
00:37:35,519 --> 00:37:39,440
penal substitutionary aspect to it. Yes, Is there a Christ's

604
00:37:39,519 --> 00:37:40,440
victor aspect to it?

605
00:37:40,559 --> 00:37:40,760
Speaker 13: Yes?

606
00:37:41,559 --> 00:37:44,239
Speaker 1: Just read book three of John Damascus and he explains

607
00:37:44,320 --> 00:37:47,280
perfectly in line with all of the Eastern fathers before

608
00:37:47,360 --> 00:37:49,519
him and many of the early Latin fathers as to

609
00:37:49,639 --> 00:37:51,800
what the orthodox doctrine of the death of Christ and

610
00:37:51,840 --> 00:37:54,719
the Atonement is. The last part of book three is

611
00:37:54,800 --> 00:38:01,239
the perfect excellent harmony with Christology doctrine. And the Protestants,

612
00:38:01,400 --> 00:38:05,079
especially Calvinists, end up as historians with their doctrine. It's

613
00:38:05,119 --> 00:38:09,239
that easy, so we don't have to go into Lutheran speculations.

614
00:38:09,320 --> 00:38:12,440
And as if we don't know what the doctrine of

615
00:38:12,440 --> 00:38:14,440
the atonement and the death of Christ and the descent

616
00:38:14,559 --> 00:38:18,440
into Hades is, we do know. Like it's all just

617
00:38:18,559 --> 00:38:21,119
academic theories up in the air, not for us. No,

618
00:38:21,920 --> 00:38:25,559
the herowing of Hades is a dogma, it's nowhere in Protestantism.

619
00:38:29,079 --> 00:38:32,880
Speaker 2: We have another one, curious on your views on the

620
00:38:33,039 --> 00:38:34,000
Church of the East.

621
00:38:35,039 --> 00:38:39,199
Speaker 1: Yeah, we don't accept that as anymore than any of

622
00:38:39,239 --> 00:38:42,079
the other Churches of the East, the so called Orientals.

623
00:38:42,119 --> 00:38:44,519
They're just as much in schism as the others.

624
00:38:47,079 --> 00:38:51,239
Speaker 4: Okay, short answer love that in what sense would an

625
00:38:51,400 --> 00:38:55,000
Orthodox say that Pope Leo was the archbishop of.

626
00:38:55,119 --> 00:38:58,119
Speaker 1: All the churches in the same way that that same

627
00:38:58,159 --> 00:39:01,320
phraseology is used of Con Sentinople. I mean, these kinds

628
00:39:01,360 --> 00:39:04,639
of glowing terms and phrases are used often. Uh. The

629
00:39:04,719 --> 00:39:07,679
Alexandrian patriarch it is sometimes referred to as the head

630
00:39:07,719 --> 00:39:10,599
of churches, the head of all churches Antioch and Basil's

631
00:39:10,679 --> 00:39:14,280
letters as he uses that same phraseology. It's that there's

632
00:39:14,400 --> 00:39:18,559
a common usage of florid. Uh, what's the term that

633
00:39:20,000 --> 00:39:22,440
there's a there's a term for like the glowing phrase

634
00:39:22,599 --> 00:39:26,559
phraseology that's used at times. It doesn't always necessarily mean

635
00:39:27,000 --> 00:39:31,559
the Vatican One doctrine of papal infallibility. So if you look,

636
00:39:31,639 --> 00:39:33,480
if you look at the way Canon, look at the

637
00:39:33,519 --> 00:39:37,960
what can you mute if you look at the way

638
00:39:38,000 --> 00:39:41,719
Canon twenty eight of Chalcedon speaks of the ecumenical patriarch.

639
00:39:41,800 --> 00:39:48,519
It it's ecumenical patriarchate, universal patriarch. It's just a term.

640
00:39:48,840 --> 00:39:54,079
There's we don't necessarily read into that universal dogmas or

641
00:39:54,199 --> 00:39:56,559
in terms of Vatican One view is all we have

642
00:39:56,679 --> 00:39:58,840
to do there. Ifew the Vatican One view is just

643
00:39:58,960 --> 00:40:02,320
show that it's not present in the Seven Councils. And

644
00:40:02,440 --> 00:40:04,760
that's very easy to do. If that's the case, the

645
00:40:04,880 --> 00:40:08,639
Vatican One refutes itself because Vatican One says that its

646
00:40:08,719 --> 00:40:09,760
view was always true.

647
00:40:12,360 --> 00:40:15,400
Speaker 2: Okay, we got another one. How do we get people

648
00:40:15,559 --> 00:40:17,960
over the quote sky daddy.

649
00:40:17,880 --> 00:40:22,440
Speaker 4: Argument and the quote if God good, why bad things happened?

650
00:40:22,719 --> 00:40:24,639
Speaker 2: Mind? How do we get people over that?

651
00:40:24,880 --> 00:40:26,840
Speaker 1: The easiest way to go about that is just to

652
00:40:27,039 --> 00:40:31,119
point out that to do basic pres up first of all,

653
00:40:31,599 --> 00:40:34,480
like we're not calling God a sky daddy, as if

654
00:40:35,199 --> 00:40:38,079
there's a one to one correspondence between the earthly notion

655
00:40:38,239 --> 00:40:42,280
of father and a heavenly literal father. Those are what's

656
00:40:42,280 --> 00:40:45,480
called analogia, right, There are analogies between human fathers and God.

657
00:40:45,519 --> 00:40:48,119
The Father doesn't mean that God is identically literally a

658
00:40:48,239 --> 00:40:50,559
quote guy with a long beard and a dad. He's

659
00:40:50,559 --> 00:40:53,679
spoken of as like a father, but he's also spoken

660
00:40:53,719 --> 00:40:58,480
of as like many other things. Mute. Can you mute?

661
00:41:00,920 --> 00:41:06,559
Just boot that guy if he's so so? Uh so,

662
00:41:06,760 --> 00:41:10,079
The sky daddy argument is based on a misunderstanding of

663
00:41:10,199 --> 00:41:13,280
what divine names are divine terms. So if you read

664
00:41:13,320 --> 00:41:17,039
Dionysius in the Divine Names he will go into detail

665
00:41:17,159 --> 00:41:19,960
explaining how we predicated God in what sense we use

666
00:41:20,000 --> 00:41:26,159
these words in terms, and then ironically, you know, just

667
00:41:26,599 --> 00:41:27,199
boot that guy.

668
00:41:27,760 --> 00:41:27,880
Speaker 14: Uh.

669
00:41:28,840 --> 00:41:32,480
Speaker 1: Ironically, atheists even do the same thing. They will speak

670
00:41:32,559 --> 00:41:35,760
of nature like it's a mother, like it's an artificer,

671
00:41:35,880 --> 00:41:39,360
like it's a designer, like it's a personal cognizant agent

672
00:41:39,559 --> 00:41:42,559
able to create and make things, when it's an impersonal

673
00:41:42,880 --> 00:41:45,440
chaotic force. So they will do that. They will do

674
00:41:45,559 --> 00:41:53,039
the exact all right, booting that guy, just doing that, understand.

675
00:41:54,400 --> 00:41:55,239
Speaker 2: Yeah, I can see.

676
00:41:55,599 --> 00:42:00,239
Speaker 5: I'll keep my eyes by the way, even better, look

677
00:42:00,280 --> 00:42:02,079
at the personification of science.

678
00:42:02,719 --> 00:42:06,119
Speaker 1: Yes, we got almost three hundred people, by the way,

679
00:42:06,199 --> 00:42:08,719
welcome everybody, Thank your father digging. Go ahead and finish that.

680
00:42:08,719 --> 00:42:11,719
I thought, if you want to, well, I mean.

681
00:42:12,280 --> 00:42:16,280
Speaker 5: If you notice, let's consult the oracle science. Science says,

682
00:42:16,440 --> 00:42:17,159
it tells.

683
00:42:17,000 --> 00:42:19,039
Speaker 1: Us, oh, yes, exactly right.

684
00:42:19,599 --> 00:42:23,719
Speaker 5: It's perfied form of deity that you go to the

685
00:42:23,760 --> 00:42:26,559
oracle and givinize.

686
00:42:26,079 --> 00:42:31,400
Speaker 1: Your Yes, the science gods have spoken that COVID you know,

687
00:42:31,559 --> 00:42:37,760
doesn't affect riots, right, but it does affect anything else exactly. So,

688
00:42:38,039 --> 00:42:40,360
so sky daddy God, I would just do a basic

689
00:42:40,480 --> 00:42:42,679
prese up and say that this, First of all, it's

690
00:42:42,719 --> 00:42:45,400
not accurate. You guys did the exact same thing with

691
00:42:45,440 --> 00:42:47,800
personification of nature, and then you turn around and act

692
00:42:47,960 --> 00:42:51,960
like nature has no qualities like this, there's no actual

693
00:42:52,079 --> 00:42:54,800
design actually in nature, as they all argue, But then

694
00:42:54,800 --> 00:42:56,519
they turn around and talk like there is te loos

695
00:42:56,559 --> 00:42:59,360
in nature. Then I would turn around and say that

696
00:43:00,679 --> 00:43:02,960
what was the next one? Oh, morals, And I would

697
00:43:02,960 --> 00:43:06,159
just simply say that you need something like Christianity to

698
00:43:06,199 --> 00:43:10,159
provide a system for a basis for objective ethics. I'm

699
00:43:10,199 --> 00:43:12,800
not saying that there's objective ethics just because I say

700
00:43:12,920 --> 00:43:15,480
Christianity is true. I'm saying that the system of Christian

701
00:43:15,599 --> 00:43:19,519
theology or metaphysics and ethics gives an account for how

702
00:43:19,639 --> 00:43:24,199
there's ethics. That's different than just saying well, it's true

703
00:43:24,199 --> 00:43:26,559
because we have ethics. And that's two different arguments, right.

704
00:43:26,960 --> 00:43:29,880
The atheist doesn't have a basis at all to say

705
00:43:30,000 --> 00:43:35,199
something is wrong, something is ethically morally wrong, it's arbitrary.

706
00:43:35,920 --> 00:43:38,239
That's two different arguments. So if you can make those

707
00:43:38,400 --> 00:43:40,480
that argument and just say oh no, wait a minute,

708
00:43:40,480 --> 00:43:43,960
so Christianity is quote evil or bad, but you don't

709
00:43:44,000 --> 00:43:46,679
actually believe there is any objective evil or bad, so

710
00:43:46,760 --> 00:43:50,559
you have no basis to make an argument that Christianity

711
00:43:51,199 --> 00:43:51,880
is bad.

712
00:43:57,159 --> 00:44:03,719
Speaker 4: Okay, next question is, yes, what advice would you give

713
00:44:03,760 --> 00:44:07,440
to an atheist who simply confine it within himself to believe?

714
00:44:12,280 --> 00:44:16,960
Speaker 1: I mean, belief is not a like thing that you

715
00:44:17,280 --> 00:44:20,480
work yourself up to. I mean you have to repent,

716
00:44:20,639 --> 00:44:23,800
you have to change your life to believe. There's a

717
00:44:23,840 --> 00:44:28,920
symbiotic relationship between the repenting and changing our ways and

718
00:44:29,360 --> 00:44:32,639
the acquisition of the gift of faith. Right. I mean

719
00:44:32,679 --> 00:44:34,840
it's all grace ultimately, in the sense that God is

720
00:44:34,920 --> 00:44:38,000
the one that's giving us our providential situations that lead

721
00:44:38,079 --> 00:44:40,280
us to believe and repent. And at the same time,

722
00:44:40,400 --> 00:44:42,559
grace is all I mean, faith is also a gift,

723
00:44:43,000 --> 00:44:45,360
So I would ask God for faith and at the

724
00:44:45,400 --> 00:44:49,599
same time, you know, stop whatever degenerates that you're into.

725
00:44:50,320 --> 00:44:51,440
That's that's how it works.

726
00:44:54,079 --> 00:44:57,079
Speaker 4: Also, I'm going to send you a someone ask that

727
00:44:57,760 --> 00:45:00,960
you put up a screenshot of each as his tweets,

728
00:45:01,119 --> 00:45:03,559
So I'll send you a screenshot.

729
00:45:03,719 --> 00:45:06,320
Speaker 1: No, I'm not doing that. I'm not doing that. I'm

730
00:45:06,320 --> 00:45:09,280
not We're not doing stupid drama. I mean it's an

731
00:45:09,360 --> 00:45:12,320
open invitation. I've invited this guy for eight months to

732
00:45:12,400 --> 00:45:14,480
do a debate and he just talks around it all

733
00:45:14,559 --> 00:45:16,800
do it in six months? Oh were you you made

734
00:45:16,840 --> 00:45:18,800
fun of me? I didn't make fun of you. This

735
00:45:19,000 --> 00:45:20,840
is all he does. He just asks, you know, it's

736
00:45:21,079 --> 00:45:23,400
it's just drama. I'm not doing that. I mean, we

737
00:45:23,480 --> 00:45:26,960
set up we set up a debate with we set

738
00:45:27,039 --> 00:45:31,159
up a debate with his teacher. If we set up

739
00:45:31,159 --> 00:45:33,039
a debate with his teacher, we set up a debate

740
00:45:33,119 --> 00:45:36,719
with everybody else. Have no problems with Zephon Molini, Matt Dela, Hunting,

741
00:45:36,800 --> 00:45:40,519
Adam Okesh, all these different well known people and that.

742
00:45:40,719 --> 00:45:42,519
I mean, it's been months and months and months of

743
00:45:42,599 --> 00:45:44,000
trying to set up a debate with this guy. It's

744
00:45:44,039 --> 00:45:46,159
just a waste of time. I'm not gonna even interact

745
00:45:46,199 --> 00:45:46,480
with him.

746
00:45:48,159 --> 00:45:48,440
Speaker 3: Okay.

747
00:45:48,559 --> 00:45:52,159
Speaker 4: Another question, is there an attempt to unify the Church

748
00:45:52,239 --> 00:45:55,960
of the East and Orthodox Church actively going on?

749
00:45:56,280 --> 00:45:57,960
Speaker 1: I don't know. I don't keep up with that.

750
00:45:58,079 --> 00:45:58,400
Speaker 2: I don't know.

751
00:45:59,679 --> 00:46:02,199
Speaker 1: I mean, I know there's been discussions with Monophesites. I

752
00:46:02,239 --> 00:46:03,199
don't know about Syrians.

753
00:46:03,360 --> 00:46:03,679
Speaker 3: I don't know.

754
00:46:04,760 --> 00:46:09,079
Speaker 4: Okay, can you explain what is meant by formal distinctions

755
00:46:09,159 --> 00:46:11,599
in God and why Orthodox reject this.

756
00:46:12,679 --> 00:46:16,840
Speaker 1: Doesn't matter what terms you use, because we're not Scotis.

757
00:46:17,199 --> 00:46:19,880
If you read Scotus's treatises, he has two treatises on

758
00:46:19,920 --> 00:46:24,280
the unicity of God and the Existence of God. I've

759
00:46:24,320 --> 00:46:26,119
got the treatises right over here on my shelf, and go.

760
00:46:26,400 --> 00:46:28,000
We did a whole talk on this. Go watch the

761
00:46:28,079 --> 00:46:30,840
talk that we did, me and father Deacon Ananias, where

762
00:46:30,880 --> 00:46:35,400
we covered Anselm's ontological argument and Scotus's arguments for divine simplicity,

763
00:46:35,400 --> 00:46:41,400
where he equates in a strict identity, will, knowledge, essence, unity,

764
00:46:41,719 --> 00:46:44,719
et cetera, all of the attributes of God and he

765
00:46:44,880 --> 00:46:49,599
predicates it all on the basis of natural theology. Okay,

766
00:46:50,239 --> 00:46:53,599
that's that's not our position. We can't unite with Scotism.

767
00:46:53,760 --> 00:46:58,719
So formal distinction of Scotis is just a scholastics, quasi

768
00:46:58,800 --> 00:47:01,719
scholastic thing that's invented to try to have a closer

769
00:47:01,800 --> 00:47:04,800
position because he's trying to do justice to the Eastern position.

770
00:47:05,280 --> 00:47:08,400
It doesn't matter. We already know what the correct distinction is.

771
00:47:08,840 --> 00:47:11,960
It's not based on speculations of later theologians in the

772
00:47:12,000 --> 00:47:17,239
Middle Ages, because the dogmatic councils have already determined what

773
00:47:17,480 --> 00:47:20,679
the distinction is. It's a real distinction between essence and energy,

774
00:47:21,400 --> 00:47:24,599
just as real as a distinction between the hypostases. It's

775
00:47:24,679 --> 00:47:26,960
not even debated in the in the in the in

776
00:47:27,039 --> 00:47:30,760
Our Fathers, It's very clear. I mean, Maximus has tons

777
00:47:30,800 --> 00:47:36,719
of passages that discuss this distinction. Right the sixth Council

778
00:47:36,840 --> 00:47:40,360
predicates its argumentation on the essence energy distinction being real.

779
00:47:41,000 --> 00:47:43,639
I mean imagine saying that creating the world is only

780
00:47:43,760 --> 00:47:46,400
formally distinct from Jesus walking on water. I mean, just

781
00:47:46,480 --> 00:47:50,760
think how stupid that is. So formal distinctions, A formal

782
00:47:50,800 --> 00:47:53,920
distinction is just a scholastic thing to try to have

783
00:47:54,000 --> 00:47:56,760
a position closer to the east. But it doesn't matter

784
00:47:56,920 --> 00:47:59,679
because I can go to Scotus's other works where he

785
00:47:59,840 --> 00:48:02,679
is explicitly says things that we could never agree with.

786
00:48:05,719 --> 00:48:08,360
Speaker 4: Okay, we've got a question that I think if Father

787
00:48:08,480 --> 00:48:10,880
Daton is there, I think this would be a good

788
00:48:10,920 --> 00:48:13,800
question for him. So I'm an inquire in a very

789
00:48:13,920 --> 00:48:18,159
evangelical family. They really don't like orthodoxy, and I don't

790
00:48:18,199 --> 00:48:19,719
want to be evangelical anymore.

791
00:48:20,000 --> 00:48:22,360
Speaker 2: What do I do? I can't drive yet, and I

792
00:48:22,480 --> 00:48:24,360
don't know anyone orthodox around me.

793
00:48:27,320 --> 00:48:33,079
Speaker 5: I'd say, tickets slow, thank you for your question. I

794
00:48:33,199 --> 00:48:38,000
get a lot of these questions and you know, consulted

795
00:48:38,079 --> 00:48:40,519
with my spiritual father on how to approach.

796
00:48:41,280 --> 00:48:46,320
Speaker 2: These sorts of things. You know, as many of you converted, know.

797
00:48:46,519 --> 00:48:51,639
Speaker 5: That sometimes you spend a long time is a catechumen,

798
00:48:52,239 --> 00:48:58,159
many years. It can be a slow process. So I'd

799
00:48:58,320 --> 00:49:06,199
encourage you if you can't get to a service that

800
00:49:07,639 --> 00:49:11,920
you know, we have a Catechises program on the discourse

801
00:49:12,000 --> 00:49:16,039
here and in fact, I think we correct me if

802
00:49:16,079 --> 00:49:18,880
I'm wrong, Jay and Lewis, but we have a Metropolitan

803
00:49:19,000 --> 00:49:24,639
Jonah aiding in that process. I'd say, really start trying

804
00:49:24,800 --> 00:49:29,559
to you know, get some good reads. We have a

805
00:49:29,719 --> 00:49:34,880
good book recommendation. You can always right me questions and

806
00:49:34,960 --> 00:49:38,159
if it's above my pay grade, any wisdom that I have,

807
00:49:38,320 --> 00:49:41,800
again it comes from my spiritual father, and I'll off

808
00:49:41,840 --> 00:49:42,639
to take questions.

809
00:49:43,079 --> 00:49:45,679
Speaker 2: So I think we can help you, and we can.

810
00:49:46,440 --> 00:49:48,800
Speaker 5: You know, you're not hopefully you're not going to be

811
00:49:48,880 --> 00:49:53,719
living with your parents forever, and you know, pray, pray

812
00:49:53,800 --> 00:49:59,159
that God, you know, provide the means to eventually attend

813
00:49:59,440 --> 00:50:00,880
a SERVI us and.

814
00:50:02,840 --> 00:50:06,559
Speaker 2: I would definitely suggest don't argue Orthodoxy with your parents.

815
00:50:08,639 --> 00:50:13,280
Speaker 5: Just try to acquire the spirit of Orthodoxy, and they'll

816
00:50:13,360 --> 00:50:17,360
notice a change and they'll begin to inquire, what is

817
00:50:17,480 --> 00:50:21,199
this new thing that you've found. That's what i'd suggest,

818
00:50:21,360 --> 00:50:24,320
So feel free to write any of us again, We've

819
00:50:24,360 --> 00:50:28,280
got a lot of great resources and you can still

820
00:50:28,480 --> 00:50:30,320
experience Orthodoxy and.

821
00:50:30,360 --> 00:50:32,840
Speaker 2: Learn a lot about it that way.

822
00:50:34,559 --> 00:50:36,960
Speaker 1: I'm not upset. I get tired of the same questions

823
00:50:37,119 --> 00:50:38,880
over and over and over. And when we do entire

824
00:50:39,000 --> 00:50:42,239
streams answering those questions and then people ask those questions

825
00:50:42,360 --> 00:50:44,119
over and over and over, that's I'm not upset. I'm

826
00:50:44,159 --> 00:50:46,159
just saying that it's already been dealt with. We've done

827
00:50:46,159 --> 00:50:49,239
this million times. And also because I know the people

828
00:50:49,320 --> 00:50:52,719
that will rely on these kind of bogus, you know,

829
00:50:52,840 --> 00:50:55,280
ways around arguments. But I'm going to read you from

830
00:50:55,360 --> 00:50:59,320
the philosophical writings of John Damascus on page fifty six,

831
00:51:00,079 --> 00:51:03,920
says that I establish this knowledge and will of the

832
00:51:04,039 --> 00:51:06,800
First Being or God or God is the same as

833
00:51:06,920 --> 00:51:11,039
his essence, The divine essence is absolutely identical to its will.

834
00:51:11,800 --> 00:51:14,760
And he goes on to say, I have proved thus

835
00:51:15,039 --> 00:51:18,679
that the knowledge the Self love and the essence are

836
00:51:18,719 --> 00:51:22,800
all identical in the first being, there is no knowledge

837
00:51:23,000 --> 00:51:27,079
or accidental He says, there's nothing accidental. No knowledge can

838
00:51:27,119 --> 00:51:32,320
be accidental to the first essence. He goes on and

839
00:51:32,480 --> 00:51:40,880
explicitly states, so there's nothing. But he says, act as purists. Okay, So, like,

840
00:51:41,000 --> 00:51:43,559
how long do we have to keep making the same

841
00:51:43,639 --> 00:51:45,760
responses in the same arguments? And he says it over

842
00:51:45,760 --> 00:51:48,559
and over over. This is not, you know, like one

843
00:51:49,159 --> 00:51:50,840
thing I'm taking out of ord. He says, the love

844
00:51:50,880 --> 00:51:53,159
of God is identical the essence of God. Again, don't

845
00:51:53,159 --> 00:51:58,679
you understand that that's not the triadic christological dogma of

846
00:51:58,760 --> 00:52:02,119
the first seven centuries. We don't teach that, The councils

847
00:52:02,119 --> 00:52:04,760
don't teach that. Johnamascus writes entire books against that.

848
00:52:11,000 --> 00:52:14,000
Speaker 4: Okay, we have someone in voice chat who wants to

849
00:52:14,079 --> 00:52:14,760
ask a question.

850
00:52:15,079 --> 00:52:16,320
Speaker 1: Welcome manifest.

851
00:52:18,480 --> 00:52:19,880
Speaker 2: Yeah, can everybody hear me?

852
00:52:19,960 --> 00:52:20,199
Speaker 3: Fine?

853
00:52:20,960 --> 00:52:22,159
Speaker 2: Can you all right?

854
00:52:22,719 --> 00:52:25,559
Speaker 11: So my question is kind of a compound question, but

855
00:52:25,679 --> 00:52:31,280
it's adhering to one ultimate questions. That's okay, Okay, So

856
00:52:31,840 --> 00:52:35,280
my question is are you familiar with the letters written

857
00:52:35,440 --> 00:52:39,000
in the late nine hundreds and early one thousands, going

858
00:52:39,079 --> 00:52:42,119
back and forth between Roman Constantinople that led to the

859
00:52:42,159 --> 00:52:46,360
Great Schism, and would you, and if so, would you

860
00:52:46,440 --> 00:52:49,679
please explain for us the contents and refutation to the

861
00:52:49,760 --> 00:52:53,440
Roman Catholic argument at the Orthodox Church schisms and not

862
00:52:53,599 --> 00:52:54,360
the other way around.

863
00:52:54,480 --> 00:52:57,000
Speaker 1: Yeah. Read Francis de Vornik's entire book on it, and

864
00:52:57,159 --> 00:52:59,840
he is one of your top Unity eight scholars who've

865
00:52:59,840 --> 00:53:01,719
been indicates and admits our position. How's that?

866
00:53:04,239 --> 00:53:04,559
Speaker 3: Okay?

867
00:53:05,360 --> 00:53:06,679
Speaker 2: What was the name of that book again.

868
00:53:07,840 --> 00:53:12,320
Speaker 1: Father Francis de Vornik, The Phocian Schism. It's a famous,

869
00:53:12,400 --> 00:53:13,079
well known book.

870
00:53:15,239 --> 00:53:17,840
Speaker 2: I think it referring to the you know, the business.

871
00:53:19,760 --> 00:53:25,000
Speaker 1: Yes, okay, but I'm saying that the Vornick covers that

872
00:53:25,159 --> 00:53:26,880
whole period of the Phocian Schism.

873
00:53:28,920 --> 00:53:34,039
Speaker 2: All right, thank you. I'll look into that. Okay, thank you.

874
00:53:34,119 --> 00:53:38,599
Speaker 4: Manifest Okay, next question, Jay, how do you see the

875
00:53:38,760 --> 00:53:43,239
alien slash extraterrestrial syop evolve in the coming year.

876
00:53:46,320 --> 00:53:48,360
Speaker 1: That's not really what we're here to tell. I mean,

877
00:53:48,360 --> 00:53:51,639
I mean, I specify it's okay, I mean I don't

878
00:53:51,679 --> 00:53:54,159
I don't know. I mean, it's entirely possible that they

879
00:53:54,159 --> 00:53:56,400
could throw that kind of a thing at us. After all,

880
00:53:56,440 --> 00:53:59,960
the corunka nonsense. I don't. I don't personally think it'll

881
00:54:00,079 --> 00:54:02,840
go that far, but it could. But I mean, we're

882
00:54:02,880 --> 00:54:06,760
here right now to talk about I said, atheism, logic, metaphysics,

883
00:54:06,800 --> 00:54:11,360
biblical theology, Early Church, Islam, Protestant Roman Catholics. So that's

884
00:54:11,360 --> 00:54:14,719
what we're here to talk about today, not not UFOs.

885
00:54:21,440 --> 00:54:24,440
I guess, I guess that fits under metaphysics. So I

886
00:54:24,480 --> 00:54:27,760
guess do aliens exist as a metaphysical question? So I

887
00:54:27,800 --> 00:54:29,800
guess I guess he is within the balance of what

888
00:54:29,920 --> 00:54:33,159
we're here to talk about. But anybody else, if you

889
00:54:33,239 --> 00:54:36,639
want to, feel free to offer up a super chat

890
00:54:36,840 --> 00:54:41,320
question whatever. I put into the link in the chat here.

891
00:54:43,960 --> 00:54:46,840
Sometimes the discord app crashes, so Discordous crash. Let me

892
00:54:46,880 --> 00:54:51,360
pull it back up. So the app the app crash.

893
00:54:51,440 --> 00:54:55,119
But if you're on the video, if you're watching on YouTube,

894
00:54:55,159 --> 00:54:57,199
I put into the chat the link to Father Deacon

895
00:54:57,239 --> 00:55:00,440
and Night's discussion of Dunscotis and and some we deal

896
00:55:00,480 --> 00:55:03,519
with the theology of those two guys, and are they

897
00:55:03,559 --> 00:55:07,599
compatible with the Orthodox theology? So contrary to the Ecumenists,

898
00:55:07,639 --> 00:55:11,039
they're not. We already have the decisions of the Palomite

899
00:55:11,039 --> 00:55:13,320
Synods which are binding for us, which make it very

900
00:55:13,400 --> 00:55:15,079
clear that you can't. I mean, just read the Tomos

901
00:55:15,119 --> 00:55:18,559
of John Becos. You can't accept Romatholicism if you're Orthodox.

902
00:55:20,119 --> 00:55:22,280
I don't know why people don't know this. It's not

903
00:55:22,519 --> 00:55:27,239
very difficult to see what the Tomos of John Becos says.

904
00:55:27,440 --> 00:55:33,559
It explicitly denies union on the Filioquay issues. It's not

905
00:55:33,719 --> 00:55:36,199
rocket science that we're doing here. What is the Orthodox

906
00:55:36,239 --> 00:55:40,679
position on? I don't know what that is, Gertz says

907
00:55:40,960 --> 00:55:45,880
on sestuy Quay v Act of sixteen sixty six. I

908
00:55:45,960 --> 00:55:49,760
have no I have no idea what that is. Sorry,

909
00:55:49,800 --> 00:55:51,320
I can't. I'm not trying to avoid it, but I

910
00:55:51,360 --> 00:55:52,079
don't know what that is.

911
00:55:53,880 --> 00:55:57,960
Speaker 2: Okay, back to the questions, sure.

912
00:55:58,840 --> 00:56:03,559
Speaker 4: Okay, So when I asked, would you end capturing Christianity debate?

913
00:56:03,639 --> 00:56:05,679
Speaker 2: I know this has come up before. I think Capturing

914
00:56:05,760 --> 00:56:07,679
Christianity refused to debate, didn't he?

915
00:56:09,079 --> 00:56:10,960
Speaker 1: Well, we were supposed to. I was supposed to debate

916
00:56:11,280 --> 00:56:12,320
inspiring philosophy.

917
00:56:12,760 --> 00:56:12,880
Speaker 3: Uh.

918
00:56:13,039 --> 00:56:15,320
Speaker 1: And then they said they said that I had to

919
00:56:15,440 --> 00:56:19,760
agree to not make any quote insults, which we'd already

920
00:56:19,800 --> 00:56:21,400
agreed to the debate. And then they added on these

921
00:56:21,480 --> 00:56:24,719
new criterias that you can't say anything critical or insulting

922
00:56:24,760 --> 00:56:27,519
of the other person. And I said, well, that's too vague. Uh,

923
00:56:27,800 --> 00:56:30,920
And I said, I'm We've already agreed to a debate,

924
00:56:31,159 --> 00:56:33,400
and I'm gonna You know, if I make a mistake

925
00:56:33,440 --> 00:56:34,960
in the debate, you're supposed to call it out. You

926
00:56:35,000 --> 00:56:37,159
don't change the criteria of what I can and can't

927
00:56:37,239 --> 00:56:40,280
say before the debate happens that you've already agreed to.

928
00:56:40,760 --> 00:56:43,119
So they changed the criteria of what couldn't couldn't be said.

929
00:56:43,599 --> 00:56:45,960
And so I said, I'm still willing to debate, but

930
00:56:46,000 --> 00:56:47,800
you're not gonna tell me what I can and can't say.

931
00:56:48,280 --> 00:56:50,559
So then I said, well, why don't capture Christianity. Why

932
00:56:50,559 --> 00:56:52,320
don't you come debate me as well? And he wouldn't

933
00:56:52,360 --> 00:56:54,800
do it. So neither of them wanted to debate. This

934
00:56:55,119 --> 00:56:57,559
was before they were actually familiar with what I do

935
00:56:57,719 --> 00:57:00,519
or what I talk about. And then when I went

936
00:57:00,599 --> 00:57:03,760
and looked into what I argue in my background, then

937
00:57:03,840 --> 00:57:05,920
he decided to come up with this new criterion how

938
00:57:05,960 --> 00:57:09,760
to back out. So I think he backed out. If

939
00:57:09,840 --> 00:57:12,360
Cameron would love to to, I would love to have

940
00:57:12,480 --> 00:57:16,320
Cameron come on, because he believes, with absolutely no training

941
00:57:16,400 --> 00:57:20,199
at all, that he can destroy and refute the transcendental argument.

942
00:57:20,639 --> 00:57:23,239
I would love, I would I would die to uh

943
00:57:23,639 --> 00:57:26,960
to debate capturing Christianity on the transcendental argument and whether

944
00:57:27,000 --> 00:57:31,760
it's sound and valid. So please, Cameron, I pe either

945
00:57:31,800 --> 00:57:34,760
one of you come debate. I promised I won't be

946
00:57:34,880 --> 00:57:36,719
mean to you. I won't hurt your feelings. I promise,

947
00:57:37,800 --> 00:57:39,840
But I don't think that they actually they don't really

948
00:57:39,880 --> 00:57:42,079
want to debate. That's the root of this issue.

949
00:57:42,280 --> 00:57:45,280
Speaker 5: And Cameron, if you're listening, if you don't want Jay,

950
00:57:45,920 --> 00:57:48,159
I'm always here and I'm a nice guy.

951
00:57:48,960 --> 00:57:52,320
Speaker 1: Father Deacon is much nicer than me, So he's uh,

952
00:57:52,800 --> 00:57:55,559
he's a better he's a better philosopher, more, he's well,

953
00:57:55,719 --> 00:57:58,079
he's more trained than I am. So feel free to

954
00:57:58,239 --> 00:58:05,079
also have an interaction with Father Diacon. Doctor Annias, We've.

955
00:58:04,960 --> 00:58:05,840
Speaker 2: Got another question.

956
00:58:07,719 --> 00:58:11,159
Speaker 4: What are your thoughts on the visions of Bishop Hieronymous.

957
00:58:11,400 --> 00:58:15,679
I've got angelos. He prophesied the mass future conversion of

958
00:58:15,760 --> 00:58:18,039
Germany to Orthodoxy, as well as the destruction of the

959
00:58:18,119 --> 00:58:21,079
papacy in World War three, as well as a final

960
00:58:21,119 --> 00:58:23,719
ecumenical council to stamp out every heresy.

961
00:58:25,119 --> 00:58:27,159
Speaker 1: I've never heard this as new to me. I don't

962
00:58:27,159 --> 00:58:27,760
know anything about it.

963
00:58:28,119 --> 00:58:28,880
Speaker 2: Yeah, heard that.

964
00:58:29,000 --> 00:58:30,920
Speaker 1: Sounds pretty cool, but I don't know what about it.

965
00:58:33,039 --> 00:58:36,920
Would you be willing to debate ef Dawa, Dude, I've

966
00:58:36,920 --> 00:58:40,880
already debated. We had an aazam before on they uploaded

967
00:58:40,880 --> 00:58:48,679
this to the channel. I mean, here's a challenge. So

968
00:58:49,039 --> 00:58:54,800
Christianity has been on the defensive debating their texts to

969
00:58:54,920 --> 00:59:00,440
the Muslims for thirty years in you know, online audio

970
00:59:00,519 --> 00:59:03,679
debates right all the way back to twenty thirty years ago.

971
00:59:03,800 --> 00:59:06,599
Right when is a Muslim actually going to step up

972
00:59:06,639 --> 00:59:09,840
and defend their theology? They never do it. They won't

973
00:59:09,880 --> 00:59:14,800
debate their theology. They will only debate basing their arguments

974
00:59:14,920 --> 00:59:18,360
on liberal higher criticism. That's all they ever want to debate.

975
00:59:19,280 --> 00:59:22,519
And then because anytime it gets into their territory, it collapses.

976
00:59:23,199 --> 00:59:26,239
So I'm not going to just debate you on the

977
00:59:26,280 --> 00:59:29,199
Gospel of John. Just like sam Simun Shamun said, We're

978
00:59:29,199 --> 00:59:32,400
going to debate Gospel John and the Koran and whether

979
00:59:32,480 --> 00:59:35,599
it contradicts itself. Those are the we don't just do

980
00:59:36,119 --> 00:59:39,760
only our texts, and you guys know that you won't

981
00:59:40,480 --> 00:59:44,440
debate your text because it's difficult to defend because it's impossible,

982
00:59:45,519 --> 00:59:47,440
and none of them. I'm starting to figure out that

983
00:59:47,519 --> 00:59:50,880
the reason that the Muslims won't debate is because they

984
00:59:50,960 --> 00:59:55,360
don't have good theology that's logical, Like, they won't do

985
00:59:55,679 --> 01:00:01,840
logic debates. They're not good at logically debating because they

986
01:00:01,880 --> 01:00:04,599
don't know typical basic fallacies. I'm not trying to be

987
01:00:04,679 --> 01:00:07,159
mean to those guys. I'm not saying that none of

988
01:00:07,199 --> 01:00:09,440
them are good at debating. I'm saying that most of

989
01:00:09,519 --> 01:00:12,239
them who talk all the smack, they don't know basic fallacies,

990
01:00:13,280 --> 01:00:14,760
and so they'll talk about you use a bunch of

991
01:00:14,760 --> 01:00:18,199
philosophy logic. Yeah, you can't debate without philosophy logic. There's

992
01:00:18,239 --> 01:00:21,320
no such thing as a debate that doesn't have criteria

993
01:00:21,559 --> 01:00:26,000
of fallacies contradictions. That's called logic. Those are called fallacies.

994
01:00:26,039 --> 01:00:28,880
That's philosophy. That's the domain of philosophy. It's called logic.

995
01:00:28,960 --> 01:00:30,000
Everybody knows this right.

996
01:00:32,679 --> 01:00:35,320
Speaker 3: Anyway, Okay, we got another one.

997
01:00:35,880 --> 01:00:39,000
Speaker 2: We have literally like two hundred questions.

998
01:00:40,280 --> 01:00:42,400
Speaker 1: No, hold on, hold on, So there's a guy in

999
01:00:42,440 --> 01:00:45,519
the chat say that is false. No, your debates, You

1000
01:00:45,599 --> 01:00:50,119
guys won't debate your texts. Shaver Eli did not want

1001
01:00:50,159 --> 01:00:52,679
to debate his text. I don't just mean the text itself.

1002
01:00:52,719 --> 01:00:55,800
I'm talking about the theology of those texts, right, the

1003
01:00:56,480 --> 01:00:59,719
Taoheed doctrine, the Tanzi doctrine. You don't want to debate

1004
01:00:59,800 --> 01:01:03,960
those doctrines. That's what I'm talking about. It's not a

1005
01:01:04,039 --> 01:01:05,880
cop dude, What are you talking about it? He says.

1006
01:01:05,960 --> 01:01:09,519
He says, I'm copping out, dude. We've invited what's seven

1007
01:01:09,920 --> 01:01:12,760
six seven of your top scholars and they won't debate

1008
01:01:13,039 --> 01:01:16,280
Shabira Lee. Credit to Shabira Lee because he did. So

1009
01:01:16,400 --> 01:01:17,840
what are you talking about? I'm not This is what

1010
01:01:17,920 --> 01:01:20,400
you guys do? You say cop out when we invite

1011
01:01:20,440 --> 01:01:23,320
you on all the time. There's an open invitation to

1012
01:01:23,480 --> 01:01:28,920
Muhammed he Jubb yesterday, right undred four hundred, four hundred

1013
01:01:29,079 --> 01:01:32,800
likes on the tweet, two one hundred and twenty retweets,

1014
01:01:33,079 --> 01:01:35,000
and he ignores the tweet like you didn't see it.

1015
01:01:35,079 --> 01:01:38,199
Come on, come on, don't don't tell me it's a

1016
01:01:38,280 --> 01:01:41,280
cop out. When you guys won't come on in debate,

1017
01:01:45,119 --> 01:01:47,360
I mean imagine inviting. So this is that we've done

1018
01:01:47,400 --> 01:01:50,559
three public debates with Muslim No One of them. They're

1019
01:01:50,599 --> 01:01:53,840
top debaters. And their reply is, you're scared and you're

1020
01:01:53,880 --> 01:01:57,679
copping out. We've invited what Lewis tell me? He isn't

1021
01:01:57,880 --> 01:01:59,679
six seven Muslim scholars.

1022
01:01:59,719 --> 01:02:01,519
Speaker 2: Now it's like seven or eight?

1023
01:02:01,679 --> 01:02:07,360
Speaker 1: Yeah, what are you talking about? Total nonsense? All right, sorry,

1024
01:02:07,440 --> 01:02:08,599
go ahead, Grido, do.

1025
01:02:08,599 --> 01:02:09,119
Speaker 2: You want to Oh?

1026
01:02:11,039 --> 01:02:14,519
Speaker 4: So, someone asked, I know that there have been critiques

1027
01:02:14,559 --> 01:02:17,480
of the Catholic view of Mary where they almost view

1028
01:02:17,559 --> 01:02:21,039
her as a co source of salvation. How is this

1029
01:02:21,320 --> 01:02:25,239
different in the Orthodox Church where they ask Mary to save.

1030
01:02:25,079 --> 01:02:29,199
Speaker 1: Us the same way that we ask anyone else to

1031
01:02:29,239 --> 01:02:31,800
pray for us and save us. Obviously her prayers have

1032
01:02:32,480 --> 01:02:35,480
more efficacy because she's the highest of God's creation. Right,

1033
01:02:36,480 --> 01:02:39,760
But Paul says, in doing so you will say you know,

1034
01:02:39,880 --> 01:02:42,159
he says, keep this, this, this, and in doing so

1035
01:02:42,320 --> 01:02:43,800
you will save those around you.

1036
01:02:44,559 --> 01:02:44,679
Speaker 13: Right?

1037
01:02:44,719 --> 01:02:48,519
Speaker 1: Does Paul mean that creatures become saviors like Jesus? No,

1038
01:02:48,719 --> 01:02:53,960
this is the standard typical Protestant heretical slipped up on words.

1039
01:02:54,000 --> 01:02:56,159
You guys get slipped up on words because, just like

1040
01:02:56,239 --> 01:02:58,440
the Muslims, you think that words only have one meaning

1041
01:02:58,480 --> 01:03:01,400
in one sense. So it's just the word concept fallacy.

1042
01:03:01,719 --> 01:03:04,480
It's two different senses to salvation. Right, you can have

1043
01:03:04,639 --> 01:03:08,280
a person who aids in your salvation without being the

1044
01:03:08,639 --> 01:03:11,400
ultimate source of the salvation. Paul says we are co

1045
01:03:11,679 --> 01:03:13,920
workers with God. Does that mean ah, he said, a

1046
01:03:14,000 --> 01:03:16,480
coworker with God. So Paul thinks we're equal to God.

1047
01:03:16,800 --> 01:03:18,880
You see what this is? Just silly. Nobody does this

1048
01:03:19,119 --> 01:03:21,719
in the rest of their life, in the rest of

1049
01:03:21,800 --> 01:03:25,400
their texts. Right, you don't always squish. Yeah, you don't

1050
01:03:25,440 --> 01:03:28,119
squish a word into only having one meaning in one sense.

1051
01:03:28,199 --> 01:03:30,880
Nobody does this in the rest of their life. Right,

1052
01:03:31,039 --> 01:03:33,440
what does doctor bo say? A kid? Oh, a kid

1053
01:03:33,519 --> 01:03:36,840
always means a goat. Right, So if you have a kid,

1054
01:03:36,920 --> 01:03:38,519
you have this is what are you talking about? It's

1055
01:03:38,559 --> 01:03:42,599
different senses of the word. This is childishness. Anyway, I'm

1056
01:03:42,639 --> 01:03:48,159
getting all wild up. Uh, just go watch Craig Triulia's

1057
01:03:48,480 --> 01:03:50,920
videos on Mary. He has plenty of great videos on

1058
01:03:51,400 --> 01:03:53,960
Mary and the northodox Ya. So there's your answer.

1059
01:03:54,280 --> 01:03:56,239
Speaker 2: Yeah, Greg, In.

1060
01:03:56,280 --> 01:04:01,119
Speaker 4: General, another one, Keny the deacon, you'd probably want to

1061
01:04:01,679 --> 01:04:05,360
can you outline an atheist starter kit for Orthodoxy? What

1062
01:04:05,519 --> 01:04:09,639
should be the duties of an ex atheist before joining

1063
01:04:09,719 --> 01:04:10,599
the Orthodox Church?

1064
01:04:11,960 --> 01:04:14,360
Speaker 1: Well, Father Deacon, while you answered that I'm gonna go

1065
01:04:14,880 --> 01:04:17,719
we we So do you feel free to take over here.

1066
01:04:21,199 --> 01:04:25,599
Speaker 4: An atheist starter camp, start a kit? So, like what

1067
01:04:25,719 --> 01:04:29,679
should like an atheist person, like what books should they read?

1068
01:04:30,159 --> 01:04:30,199
Speaker 3: Like?

1069
01:04:30,719 --> 01:04:33,920
Speaker 2: What what what should they buy first? Coming into Orthodoxy?

1070
01:04:35,960 --> 01:04:36,800
Speaker 3: Like nihilism?

1071
01:04:39,880 --> 01:04:42,800
Speaker 2: Yeah, Father Sarah and Rise is great. Ye.

1072
01:04:45,320 --> 01:04:49,320
Speaker 5: I'd also probably supplement some of the Orthodox reads with.

1073
01:04:52,320 --> 01:04:58,199
Speaker 2: See because I'd say a lot of the atheists you

1074
01:04:58,400 --> 01:05:03,079
encounter are just deficient in the rich history of kind.

1075
01:05:03,000 --> 01:05:09,039
Speaker 5: Of theism within the kind of concepts, even like Aristota

1076
01:05:09,079 --> 01:05:10,760
on the Plato that.

1077
01:05:12,440 --> 01:05:14,519
Speaker 3: And then.

1078
01:05:16,840 --> 01:05:21,559
Speaker 5: John I would probably the Orthodox faith saying John Damascus

1079
01:05:22,320 --> 01:05:25,239
would be good because then you're you're talking about the

1080
01:05:25,360 --> 01:05:37,079
attributes God. Let's see, you could always have them reads.

1081
01:05:37,199 --> 01:05:40,679
Speaker 2: He's brothers. Karen is off too. That's converted a lot of.

1082
01:05:44,239 --> 01:05:44,360
Speaker 8: Uh.

1083
01:05:45,760 --> 01:05:54,880
Speaker 14: I'm trying to think, you know, just generally, something that

1084
01:05:54,960 --> 01:05:56,000
I noticed is that.

1085
01:05:58,039 --> 01:06:03,039
Speaker 5: Most atheists that we encounter are generally deficient in the

1086
01:06:03,119 --> 01:06:05,800
great works in literature and theology.

1087
01:06:06,719 --> 01:06:12,280
Speaker 2: So you know, Leje Toli, just take up and read it.

1088
01:06:13,239 --> 01:06:13,960
That's what I mean.

1089
01:06:14,000 --> 01:06:19,159
Speaker 5: If you you never want a strong man your opponent's position,

1090
01:06:20,280 --> 01:06:26,119
so when you go into debate, you know, like us,

1091
01:06:26,400 --> 01:06:32,480
we read as much as possible of our opponents theology

1092
01:06:32,800 --> 01:06:35,079
or philosophy and literature so.

1093
01:06:35,360 --> 01:06:37,719
Speaker 2: That we're not misrepresenting it, so that when we do

1094
01:06:37,880 --> 01:06:40,639
form a critique, the critique is a good one. You

1095
01:06:40,679 --> 01:06:43,559
don't want to ever straw Man. And I think that's

1096
01:06:43,639 --> 01:06:47,760
something that most atheists could learn from.

1097
01:06:50,679 --> 01:06:53,000
Speaker 5: You know, you get these people like Lawrence Kraus, even

1098
01:06:53,119 --> 01:06:55,039
like the popular atheists.

1099
01:06:56,440 --> 01:07:00,519
Speaker 2: Dockings. None of these people have studied philosophy.

1100
01:07:00,320 --> 01:07:04,880
Speaker 5: Let alone theology, yet they're going to formulate these stupid

1101
01:07:04,960 --> 01:07:09,440
straw Man critiques. So again, I just think it would

1102
01:07:09,480 --> 01:07:14,039
be a really good atheist starter kit, great books, liberal

1103
01:07:14,119 --> 01:07:17,599
arts program. There you go, because you're going to get

1104
01:07:17,599 --> 01:07:19,000
the church history of the philosophy.

1105
01:07:23,039 --> 01:07:26,800
Speaker 1: All right, Okay, I'm back and we're done.

1106
01:07:28,079 --> 01:07:30,920
Speaker 2: Yea. I was just saying that, actually, you know what

1107
01:07:30,960 --> 01:07:32,320
a good atheist starter kit.

1108
01:07:32,280 --> 01:07:32,599
Speaker 3: Would be.

1109
01:07:35,159 --> 01:07:41,360
Speaker 5: Simply a great books, liberal arts program for atheists. Uh

1110
01:07:43,239 --> 01:07:48,360
read Well, I'm just saying they're deficient in the literature.

1111
01:07:49,000 --> 01:07:52,800
They don't even know, you know, what they're talking about

1112
01:07:52,920 --> 01:07:54,559
when they're formulating these critiques.

1113
01:07:54,719 --> 01:07:57,559
Speaker 2: And I don't think I think it would be beneficial

1114
01:07:57,679 --> 01:08:01,400
not just to read up on orthodox theology, but.

1115
01:08:02,920 --> 01:08:06,480
Speaker 5: The history of Western thought in general, going back a

1116
01:08:06,599 --> 01:08:08,000
Greek philosophy as well.

1117
01:08:11,199 --> 01:08:14,239
Speaker 4: Oh, I guess I highly doubt Lawrence Craft ever read

1118
01:08:14,280 --> 01:08:15,199
Crime and Punishment.

1119
01:08:20,079 --> 01:08:21,680
Speaker 2: Okay, next question.

1120
01:08:21,960 --> 01:08:23,880
Speaker 1: Crime and Punishment is great, by the way, I highly

1121
01:08:23,920 --> 01:08:24,399
recommend it.

1122
01:08:26,399 --> 01:08:29,680
Speaker 2: There's one of two thousand books on my reading list.

1123
01:08:30,800 --> 01:08:34,279
I have a book for every year that I have

1124
01:08:34,359 --> 01:08:36,720
a book for every year that the earth has existed.

1125
01:08:36,720 --> 01:08:39,079
It's like two thousand, roughly two thousand.

1126
01:08:39,880 --> 01:08:40,199
Speaker 3: Okay.

1127
01:08:41,640 --> 01:08:47,039
Speaker 4: What significant theological differences exist between Eastern and Oriental orthodox

1128
01:08:47,680 --> 01:08:49,439
other than the Calcedonian issue.

1129
01:08:49,520 --> 01:08:50,760
Speaker 2: I've not been able to find.

1130
01:08:50,560 --> 01:08:55,119
Speaker 4: A good articulation of their differences other than the Calcedonian controversy.

1131
01:08:56,960 --> 01:08:59,640
Speaker 1: They're not united. A snack you could probably speak to this.

1132
01:08:59,720 --> 01:09:01,239
If you're in here, you may have gone. I don't know,

1133
01:09:01,359 --> 01:09:04,720
but I mean, they have a lot of division. They

1134
01:09:04,760 --> 01:09:06,279
meet like once or twice a year, and they just

1135
01:09:06,359 --> 01:09:08,520
kind of act like they're in communion. But they have

1136
01:09:08,640 --> 01:09:12,199
all kinds of vast divergences amongst them, from animal sacrifice

1137
01:09:12,239 --> 01:09:16,840
to circumcision to all kinds of bizarre things. So I'm

1138
01:09:16,880 --> 01:09:18,479
not trying to be mean, but I mean that the

1139
01:09:18,640 --> 01:09:22,520
Oriental quote unquote Orthodox Communion is not really any kind

1140
01:09:22,520 --> 01:09:25,039
of unified thing at all. That's just in theory.

1141
01:09:26,159 --> 01:09:28,800
Speaker 15: It's more similar to the Anglican Commune, where they will

1142
01:09:28,840 --> 01:09:32,680
have like new large differences and even like vising them,

1143
01:09:32,760 --> 01:09:36,039
you will have you know, the Armenians today they are

1144
01:09:36,079 --> 01:09:44,039
more Cacedonians in terms of christology. Yeah, again circumcision because

1145
01:09:44,079 --> 01:09:47,119
in marriage, use of living and unleven bred.

1146
01:09:49,199 --> 01:09:50,319
Speaker 2: Animal sacrifice.

1147
01:09:51,920 --> 01:09:55,840
Speaker 16: Between these ches, you're forgetting one of the other crucial

1148
01:09:55,920 --> 01:09:59,560
differences neck, which is that the Ethiopians have a different

1149
01:09:59,640 --> 01:10:03,920
canon from the rest of the Oriental Orthodox, so they include.

1150
01:10:05,920 --> 01:10:09,079
Speaker 2: I mean we have slight variations again between the different works.

1151
01:10:09,640 --> 01:10:09,800
Speaker 3: Is that.

1152
01:10:11,479 --> 01:10:14,439
Speaker 15: Yeah, when it comes to the it's like really different,

1153
01:10:14,760 --> 01:10:17,520
Like they literally have changes to the New Testament, which is.

1154
01:10:21,039 --> 01:10:23,000
Speaker 1: Yeah. I mean there's all kinds of other issues too.

1155
01:10:23,119 --> 01:10:25,640
I mean that the the the I mean, you got

1156
01:10:25,800 --> 01:10:29,880
like the poption out a writing a whole treatise a

1157
01:10:29,960 --> 01:10:34,960
few years ago against the Osis, which is I mean ludicrous, unfathomable.

1158
01:10:35,000 --> 01:10:37,159
It reads like something James White would have written. I mean,

1159
01:10:37,520 --> 01:10:39,920
the idea that you could be an Orthodox pope of

1160
01:10:39,960 --> 01:10:43,600
Alexandria quote unquote, that's they're called the pope of Alexandria

1161
01:10:44,000 --> 01:10:47,920
and uh, you know you're the successor to Athanasius and

1162
01:10:47,960 --> 01:10:49,880
you write a whole treatise against the Osis. I mean

1163
01:10:49,920 --> 01:10:50,960
this is just preposterous.

1164
01:10:53,439 --> 01:10:53,680
Speaker 3: Yeah.

1165
01:10:55,640 --> 01:10:58,520
Speaker 2: And by the way, some people opposed it in his

1166
01:10:58,680 --> 01:11:01,000
church for doing this one.

1167
01:11:04,600 --> 01:11:06,640
Speaker 1: Snack snack you cut out there? Can you repeat that?

1168
01:11:09,199 --> 01:11:11,800
Speaker 15: Yeah, there's been a lot of opposition because it's inside

1169
01:11:11,840 --> 01:11:12,359
this church.

1170
01:11:12,680 --> 01:11:16,319
Speaker 2: So this Matthews the poor where you have burst it.

1171
01:11:17,279 --> 01:11:20,560
Speaker 8: He read the Fathers in Greek and he taught Theosis

1172
01:11:20,600 --> 01:11:23,039
and at this point and he was one of the

1173
01:11:23,079 --> 01:11:26,399
biggest mystics of the Coptic quote.

1174
01:11:27,479 --> 01:11:30,920
Speaker 1: Well, imagine having this stress on the union, but right,

1175
01:11:31,000 --> 01:11:34,600
I mean they have this over emphasis on union when

1176
01:11:34,640 --> 01:11:37,279
it comes to who or what Christ is and then

1177
01:11:37,319 --> 01:11:40,760
turning around in denying Theosis. This is it's like, I

1178
01:11:40,800 --> 01:11:43,960
don't know, I can't fathom how. But I mean when

1179
01:11:43,960 --> 01:11:46,560
you when you read their theology in that guy's theology,

1180
01:11:46,680 --> 01:11:48,680
or if you listen to David's debate, I mean, if

1181
01:11:48,680 --> 01:11:51,760
you heard David's debate, it's they're they're like all over

1182
01:11:51,840 --> 01:11:54,800
the place, right, you start talking about energies and they

1183
01:11:54,840 --> 01:11:58,000
don't even know. They're like, I don't know, Yeah, there's energies,

1184
01:11:58,039 --> 01:12:00,560
but maybe there's one or two or kind. I don't know.

1185
01:12:01,359 --> 01:12:04,960
I mean, it's come on, we have a clear, precise

1186
01:12:05,079 --> 01:12:09,159
theology when it comes to person, nature, will, essence, energy,

1187
01:12:09,359 --> 01:12:12,439
all that stuff. It's consistent from the Triad to Christology.

1188
01:12:13,119 --> 01:12:15,039
That's the big difference there too, is that they don't

1189
01:12:15,319 --> 01:12:19,760
see that there's a correspondence between nature, person, will, energy

1190
01:12:19,880 --> 01:12:24,880
in the Triad into Christology. They disagree with that. Republicative predication,

1191
01:12:27,520 --> 01:12:28,600
reduplicate predication.

1192
01:12:28,640 --> 01:12:34,720
Speaker 4: Excuse me, Okay, what would you say to someone who

1193
01:12:34,840 --> 01:12:38,640
claims that John seven, five, three through eight to eleven

1194
01:12:38,960 --> 01:12:42,600
is a fabrication by the early Church to push Christianity

1195
01:12:42,760 --> 01:12:46,560
over Mosaic law, or just the fabrication in general.

1196
01:12:48,000 --> 01:12:50,199
Speaker 1: We covered this in the James snapstream. We did a

1197
01:12:50,239 --> 01:12:53,680
whole stream on this. I don't even think it's out

1198
01:12:53,680 --> 01:12:57,199
of accord with the Old Testament. Go listen to the

1199
01:12:57,279 --> 01:12:59,319
James snapstream we did on textual history.

1200
01:13:00,600 --> 01:13:04,079
Speaker 6: So, yeah, because in mosaic law you had to have

1201
01:13:04,279 --> 01:13:08,159
the man who she committed with you exactly.

1202
01:13:08,720 --> 01:13:09,880
Speaker 2: That was what the issue was.

1203
01:13:12,600 --> 01:13:15,039
Speaker 1: Yeah, I mean in many in many other places, Jesus

1204
01:13:15,279 --> 01:13:19,520
absolutely upholds the continuity with the mosaic administration. So the

1205
01:13:19,640 --> 01:13:21,960
idea that there's not continuity is kind of ludicrous. But

1206
01:13:22,119 --> 01:13:24,840
go ahead, Okay, this.

1207
01:13:25,039 --> 01:13:28,359
Speaker 2: Is for either you or Father de Yeah. Are my

1208
01:13:28,520 --> 01:13:34,319
prayers for others, both alive and past, even uh even heard?

1209
01:13:34,479 --> 01:13:37,920
Speaker 4: If I'm not baptized in the Orthodox Church or participating

1210
01:13:37,960 --> 01:13:40,720
in the EU Christ, do you have any recommended prayers

1211
01:13:40,800 --> 01:13:44,720
for those who have died before finding Christ slash Orthodoxy?

1212
01:13:45,960 --> 01:13:48,359
Speaker 1: I would answer that yes, God can hear all prayers

1213
01:13:48,479 --> 01:13:51,359
because God, it says God heard Cornelius's prayers before he

1214
01:13:51,479 --> 01:13:52,119
was baptized.

1215
01:13:55,000 --> 01:13:57,159
Speaker 2: All right, Yeah, and you can use any prayers.

1216
01:13:58,560 --> 01:14:02,800
Speaker 6: The only place that non Orthodox aren't commemorated is that

1217
01:14:03,000 --> 01:14:07,239
the alta in the preparation of the Eucharist in the Proscamede.

1218
01:14:07,520 --> 01:14:07,800
Speaker 2: That's it.

1219
01:14:10,279 --> 01:14:12,560
Speaker 16: Jordanville has a really good prayer book if you want

1220
01:14:12,600 --> 01:14:13,119
one of those.

1221
01:14:13,920 --> 01:14:15,800
Speaker 1: Yeah, bather Digan, did you want to comment on that,

1222
01:14:15,880 --> 01:14:16,720
I mean to cut you off.

1223
01:14:17,439 --> 01:14:20,399
Speaker 2: No, that's exactly correct answer.

1224
01:14:20,760 --> 01:14:21,439
Speaker 3: Of course, got.

1225
01:14:23,279 --> 01:14:27,560
Speaker 2: All our prayers. But at the same time it encourages.

1226
01:14:27,159 --> 01:14:31,239
Speaker 5: Us to go further into Orthodoxy because the prayers are

1227
01:14:31,279 --> 01:14:32,840
a righteous man avails much.

1228
01:14:34,600 --> 01:14:36,840
Speaker 14: And so I try to use that.

1229
01:14:37,000 --> 01:14:42,039
Speaker 5: As you know, it's hard to motivate myself to do

1230
01:14:42,199 --> 01:14:45,880
stuff when I just think about myself. But if I

1231
01:14:46,000 --> 01:14:49,079
realize that you know, other people depend on me. And

1232
01:14:49,119 --> 01:14:50,640
I don't know how all of you feel about this,

1233
01:14:50,840 --> 01:14:54,239
but for me, that's kind of a motivating factor.

1234
01:14:54,760 --> 01:15:00,439
Speaker 2: At lights a fire and it needs me. And the that's.

1235
01:15:02,039 --> 01:15:05,159
Speaker 5: Something that we could do, is that know that you

1236
01:15:05,239 --> 01:15:08,840
know other people depend on us, and that maybe I

1237
01:15:08,920 --> 01:15:12,760
can't motivate myself to get, you know, further my spiritual life.

1238
01:15:14,439 --> 01:15:16,359
Speaker 2: The fact that if you get further into spiritual life,

1239
01:15:16,359 --> 01:15:18,880
you will be helping others is a wonderful thing.

1240
01:15:19,640 --> 01:15:22,079
Speaker 1: Garbage man has a question for seven dollars that looks

1241
01:15:22,119 --> 01:15:26,159
like it's probably intended to trap me. The position on

1242
01:15:27,159 --> 01:15:29,399
the church is that the church is the new Israel.

1243
01:15:29,560 --> 01:15:32,239
So that should tell you the obvious answer to that question.

1244
01:15:32,359 --> 01:15:34,159
It shouldn't be very hard for you to figure that out.

1245
01:15:35,199 --> 01:15:38,319
Although I do appreciate your appreciate your seven dollars. There

1246
01:15:38,359 --> 01:15:40,880
should be plenty of quotes that explain to you what

1247
01:15:41,000 --> 01:15:44,159
our position is. Gert sends a dollar and he says,

1248
01:15:44,279 --> 01:15:47,720
in the future garden City, will we go back to

1249
01:15:47,840 --> 01:15:52,359
being androgynist beings described in Genesis? We're not androgynist beings.

1250
01:15:53,279 --> 01:16:00,159
Genesis I don't think describes androgynist beings. So if you

1251
01:16:00,239 --> 01:16:04,039
if you read uh Father Sara from Rose in Genesis

1252
01:16:04,119 --> 01:16:05,840
Creation Early Man, he actually has a section where he

1253
01:16:05,880 --> 01:16:08,479
talks about how he and I think he's correct. Uh,

1254
01:16:08,960 --> 01:16:12,319
there there was gender before the fall. Some of the

1255
01:16:12,359 --> 01:16:15,680
Eastern fathers speculated on this and speculator that maybe gender

1256
01:16:15,880 --> 01:16:19,279
wasn't introduced after the Fall. I don't believe that. But obviously,

1257
01:16:19,399 --> 01:16:21,079
by the way, Jay.

1258
01:16:21,039 --> 01:16:25,800
Speaker 5: I'd avoid the what's called the woke PC translation of

1259
01:16:26,640 --> 01:16:27,079
the Bible.

1260
01:16:27,600 --> 01:16:31,720
Speaker 1: We might actually get, Yeah, I get an orthodox study.

1261
01:16:31,760 --> 01:16:34,399
By yeah, I would say, I don't know what, but

1262
01:16:34,479 --> 01:16:35,960
which which one are you talking about? Like N I

1263
01:16:36,000 --> 01:16:39,600
V or something or I'm just you mean, like when

1264
01:16:39,640 --> 01:16:42,279
they come out with the like the the literal woke

1265
01:16:42,359 --> 01:16:51,119
Bible exactly, they will probably have like the woke study Bible, right, Okay, And.

1266
01:16:51,520 --> 01:16:57,439
Speaker 2: Yeah, and it's just a prosperity gospel and uh liberation theology.

1267
01:16:57,600 --> 01:16:57,840
Speaker 3: That's it.

1268
01:16:58,520 --> 01:17:00,720
Speaker 2: That's your wife stuff, right. Next question.

1269
01:17:02,199 --> 01:17:05,520
Speaker 4: The next question is what, if any difference is there

1270
01:17:05,640 --> 01:17:10,279
between monophysitism and mea physicism. Is there an actual difference

1271
01:17:10,439 --> 01:17:13,840
or is it just an attempt at obfuscation by the Orientals.

1272
01:17:15,039 --> 01:17:17,640
Speaker 1: Yeah, I mean again, all of these have been dealt

1273
01:17:17,680 --> 01:17:20,680
with with hours and hours of streams with David me

1274
01:17:20,760 --> 01:17:24,159
and David. David has an entire lecture course on this topic.

1275
01:17:24,239 --> 01:17:26,920
He just did a stream on my physicum. So go

1276
01:17:27,039 --> 01:17:29,279
to David the real medwif's channel. He did a two

1277
01:17:29,359 --> 01:17:33,439
and a half hour stream on my ephicitism. And yes,

1278
01:17:33,479 --> 01:17:36,279
there is an orthodox way to understand my physitism Saint

1279
01:17:36,760 --> 01:17:39,840
Cyril of Alexander, the Christological controversy. That whole book is

1280
01:17:39,880 --> 01:17:43,520
written by Father John McGuckin to explain that topic. So no,

1281
01:17:43,680 --> 01:17:48,359
it's not all obbliscation. I'm not trying to be rude.

1282
01:17:48,399 --> 01:17:50,279
I'm just saying that one of the reasons that we

1283
01:17:50,479 --> 01:17:53,399
do like a long two hour stream answering each one

1284
01:17:53,399 --> 01:17:56,279
of these types of topics, whether it's John Denscotis or

1285
01:17:56,319 --> 01:17:59,000
whether it's my physitism, is so that we don't have

1286
01:17:59,119 --> 01:18:03,079
to like constantly rehearse, you know, an hour's worth of material.

1287
01:18:03,159 --> 01:18:05,279
One reason I'm doing this is because when people come

1288
01:18:05,319 --> 01:18:07,079
to the discord, which I'm fine with, I enjoy that,

1289
01:18:07,680 --> 01:18:10,600
you know, every other day we're doing like five six

1290
01:18:10,800 --> 01:18:14,680
seven hour talks and then this you know, two days

1291
01:18:14,760 --> 01:18:17,520
later the same question comes up. How is some sooner

1292
01:18:17,640 --> 01:18:21,319
just sinction, not pell I mean, not neoplatonism. And we've

1293
01:18:21,319 --> 01:18:24,720
already spent four hours the day before talking about that,

1294
01:18:24,880 --> 01:18:28,479
so there's no point in just constantly redoing the same talk.

1295
01:18:29,000 --> 01:18:30,640
So I'm not trying to be rude. I'm just saying

1296
01:18:30,680 --> 01:18:34,880
that if David does twenty different streams explaining that very question,

1297
01:18:35,479 --> 01:18:38,600
go watch David's stream or read the mcguck and book

1298
01:18:41,560 --> 01:18:45,199
searching for three dollars. I'm an atheist who finds myself

1299
01:18:45,399 --> 01:18:50,239
unsatisfied with moral relativism and unanswered big questions. I can't

1300
01:18:50,520 --> 01:18:53,920
seem to accept any non empirical evidence outside of my senses.

1301
01:18:54,600 --> 01:18:56,680
How do I? And then it trails off. I can't

1302
01:18:56,680 --> 01:18:58,960
see the rest of it. So I mean, just think

1303
01:18:59,000 --> 01:19:03,359
about numbers and math objective or excuse me, abstract entities.

1304
01:19:03,720 --> 01:19:07,399
They're obviously not identical to empirical stuff. So you already

1305
01:19:07,520 --> 01:19:10,760
do believe in non empirical things. If you believe in logic,

1306
01:19:10,840 --> 01:19:16,079
if you believe in math, geometry, you already believe concepts

1307
01:19:16,279 --> 01:19:19,119
those are non empirical. So I would just argue that

1308
01:19:19,199 --> 01:19:24,159
you already believe in non empirical evidence, because evidence as

1309
01:19:24,279 --> 01:19:28,159
a concept is not matter. So when you say you

1310
01:19:28,279 --> 01:19:33,840
believe in evidence, it's non empirical already. That's my response

1311
01:19:33,920 --> 01:19:34,760
to that. But thank you for this.

1312
01:19:34,840 --> 01:19:37,760
Speaker 6: If he, if he has issues, is more relativism. He

1313
01:19:37,920 --> 01:19:41,239
presumably believes in the existence of moral facts, which are.

1314
01:19:41,760 --> 01:19:44,840
Speaker 1: Also not matter. Right, So you're talking about value judgments, right,

1315
01:19:44,880 --> 01:19:48,439
if you're making a statement about something being morally wrong

1316
01:19:48,560 --> 01:19:51,239
or right. Well, if everything's just matter, there are no

1317
01:19:51,319 --> 01:19:54,159
value judgments. Everything just is, you say, So saying something

1318
01:19:54,239 --> 01:19:59,399
is wrong requires categories that are not identical to or

1319
01:19:59,479 --> 01:20:02,199
reducible will to matter or states of matter.

1320
01:20:02,960 --> 01:20:04,960
Speaker 2: It's called the naturalism, Pallas.

1321
01:20:04,760 --> 01:20:09,279
Speaker 1: Exactly, Thank you, But great question. They're searching much appreciate it.

1322
01:20:11,760 --> 01:20:15,560
Speaker 4: Okay, what happens to people who never heard of Orthodoxy

1323
01:20:15,800 --> 01:20:19,199
after death? For example, the Pagans that died before they

1324
01:20:19,279 --> 01:20:20,840
had contact with Christianity.

1325
01:20:21,119 --> 01:20:22,039
Speaker 2: How are they judged?

1326
01:20:22,520 --> 01:20:24,920
Speaker 1: So I think we had this same question about an

1327
01:20:24,960 --> 01:20:27,399
hour ago, and then we had the same question, yester,

1328
01:20:28,720 --> 01:20:31,039
I'm just laughing because that's why we're doing this, So

1329
01:20:31,119 --> 01:20:33,720
we don't have to keep doing this. I mean, so

1330
01:20:34,159 --> 01:20:37,520
again we have the heroing of Hades doctrine, everybody that

1331
01:20:37,600 --> 01:20:40,000
died before the coming of Christ were told in the

1332
01:20:40,039 --> 01:20:43,039
New Testament they were in Hades. Peter says the Gospel

1333
01:20:43,159 --> 01:20:47,239
was preached to those who were dead. Jesus descended into

1334
01:20:47,319 --> 01:20:50,960
Hades at his death to preach the Gospel. The church

1335
01:20:51,039 --> 01:20:53,479
fathers are very clear about this. Saint Cyril of Alexander

1336
01:20:53,600 --> 01:20:55,960
has multiple section wy he talks about this, and he says,

1337
01:20:56,239 --> 01:20:58,520
the Gospel has preached to all of the Old Testament dead.

1338
01:21:01,399 --> 01:21:05,359
That's it now. People who nowadays die outside of hearing

1339
01:21:05,399 --> 01:21:07,800
the Gospel. Paul says in the Romans too, that they

1340
01:21:07,920 --> 01:21:10,079
have a light that is given to them the law

1341
01:21:10,119 --> 01:21:11,920
of nature. They will be judged by the law of nature.

1342
01:21:11,920 --> 01:21:14,560
That doesn't mean they're automatically saved. They still have to

1343
01:21:14,680 --> 01:21:17,880
have some exposure to Christ to attain theosis. You can

1344
01:21:17,960 --> 01:21:21,319
be saved without theosis. So whether God preaches to them

1345
01:21:21,399 --> 01:21:23,359
in some way, we don't know. We leave that up

1346
01:21:23,359 --> 01:21:26,239
to God. The Orthodox Church or the Eastern tradition is

1347
01:21:26,319 --> 01:21:28,640
not as interested in trying to figure all this stuff

1348
01:21:28,640 --> 01:21:31,840
out because we're simply not told. Ubi Petris just did

1349
01:21:31,880 --> 01:21:36,319
a giant floora gellium of the fate of unbaptized infants, right,

1350
01:21:36,439 --> 01:21:39,560
and so go to Ubi Petris, and you'll see that

1351
01:21:39,880 --> 01:21:43,479
we have a tradition of not really trying to speculate

1352
01:21:43,560 --> 01:21:45,800
other than to commend people to God. We don't know,

1353
01:21:46,560 --> 01:21:48,680
but we have the injunction that we have to preach

1354
01:21:48,720 --> 01:21:52,800
the Gospel. We have to convert people. Whether God reaches

1355
01:21:52,840 --> 01:21:54,920
them in some unknown way is up to God.

1356
01:21:58,039 --> 01:22:03,399
Speaker 4: An interesting factoy into tradition, Plato heard the Gospel while

1357
01:22:03,439 --> 01:22:06,520
in Hades and repented, and he actually appeared to a

1358
01:22:06,640 --> 01:22:09,760
monk and told him to stop cursing him.

1359
01:22:10,520 --> 01:22:16,279
Speaker 1: Entirely possible. So I will there, funny, here is the

1360
01:22:17,560 --> 01:22:23,119
Here is Ubi Petris's patristic list of fate of unbaptized infants.

1361
01:22:23,199 --> 01:22:25,319
So that will kind of give you an insight into

1362
01:22:25,880 --> 01:22:28,479
the question you're asking there. So you've got quotes from

1363
01:22:29,960 --> 01:22:35,119
iaron a is talking about the recapitulation that Christ's incarnation

1364
01:22:35,399 --> 01:22:38,399
reaches to all of human nature. Gregory, the theologian, Gregory,

1365
01:22:38,800 --> 01:22:45,359
of course, spoke often of this Ambrose, Innocent, Zosimus Carthage.

1366
01:22:47,359 --> 01:22:49,840
What else is in there, Gregory the Great? So that

1367
01:22:49,960 --> 01:22:54,920
you'll you'll see that there is a kind of a uh,

1368
01:22:56,159 --> 01:22:59,199
we should know that the when baptized infants die, they

1369
01:22:59,319 --> 01:23:03,079
enjoy paradise. Those not illumined by baptism do not go

1370
01:23:03,199 --> 01:23:06,640
to paradise nor gahinna. So that's on the Sunday of

1371
01:23:06,760 --> 01:23:11,119
meat fair, you see. So anyway, there's more in that link.

1372
01:23:11,239 --> 01:23:13,800
We don't speculate, We don't worry about those kinds of things.

1373
01:23:14,159 --> 01:23:16,800
We don't know. God doesn't tell us everything, so we

1374
01:23:16,960 --> 01:23:18,920
can't sit around speculating try to figure it out.

1375
01:23:20,720 --> 01:23:24,560
Speaker 4: Okay, we got a question, which is actually four questions

1376
01:23:25,159 --> 01:23:27,880
from a Muslim, so we'll just go one by one.

1377
01:23:28,600 --> 01:23:31,880
So how come the trinity is hard to explain when

1378
01:23:32,079 --> 01:23:36,600
the Bible says in First Corinthians fourteen thirty three that

1379
01:23:36,840 --> 01:23:38,840
God is not the author of introdusion.

1380
01:23:39,560 --> 01:23:43,439
Speaker 1: Okay, so just because Paul says God's not the author

1381
01:23:43,479 --> 01:23:45,399
of confusion, if you look at the context, he's talking

1382
01:23:45,399 --> 01:23:47,800
about people who were being riotous in the church. He's

1383
01:23:47,840 --> 01:23:51,119
not talking about theology. Paul talks in many places about

1384
01:23:51,199 --> 01:23:55,680
difficult theological writings. In fact, Peter even says Paul's writings

1385
01:23:55,720 --> 01:24:01,600
are difficult, so difficult and meat Hebrews calls doctrine. That's me.

1386
01:24:01,800 --> 01:24:04,920
It's not the same thing as confusion. The confusion that

1387
01:24:05,000 --> 01:24:08,680
Corinthians is talking about is people getting drunk, people committing fornication,

1388
01:24:08,800 --> 01:24:11,840
people not taking the Lord's Supper seriously in all manner

1389
01:24:11,960 --> 01:24:16,079
of you know, it sounds like a Protestant charismatic service

1390
01:24:16,119 --> 01:24:18,560
that Paul is rebuking, right. I mean, he's saying, you

1391
01:24:18,600 --> 01:24:21,640
guys are acting like looms here, flopping around, acting crazy,

1392
01:24:21,960 --> 01:24:24,399
doing all kinds of nonsense. That's the confusions. He's not

1393
01:24:24,520 --> 01:24:29,640
saying that there's no difficult theology. Your own Muslim schools

1394
01:24:29,680 --> 01:24:32,520
of philosophy are difficult. So that's a terrible argument.

1395
01:24:34,960 --> 01:24:35,840
Speaker 2: Yeah, I'd also.

1396
01:24:35,680 --> 01:24:37,760
Speaker 6: Say, if you're interested in I just want to add

1397
01:24:37,880 --> 01:24:41,159
is check out the videos I did with bo on

1398
01:24:41,239 --> 01:24:47,039
the Trinity, because I think the current sort of popular

1399
01:24:47,600 --> 01:24:51,640
Eganitarian or social Trinitarian view where the divine essence is,

1400
01:24:51,920 --> 01:24:55,399
you know, God, is the problem that a lot of

1401
01:24:55,479 --> 01:24:58,479
Muslims might end up having. So we need to reinstate

1402
01:24:58,600 --> 01:25:01,279
the doctrine of the monarchia of the Father and the

1403
01:25:01,479 --> 01:25:05,000
energies absolutely because if you go by Cappadocian theology, they

1404
01:25:05,159 --> 01:25:08,680
absolutely reject. I mean, I'm sure if your listening Muslims,

1405
01:25:08,720 --> 01:25:11,239
you know you're here that you know, oh yeah, well

1406
01:25:11,319 --> 01:25:13,680
so there's the you know, there's the nature, and that's God.

1407
01:25:13,800 --> 01:25:16,039
Speaker 2: And then because all the persons participate in that, well

1408
01:25:16,079 --> 01:25:18,359
that's how we we call why we call them God.

1409
01:25:18,479 --> 01:25:21,800
Speaker 6: But the whole, the whole premise of the Cappadocians who

1410
01:25:22,199 --> 01:25:25,039
did to basically fleshed out the Trinitarian theology was to

1411
01:25:25,199 --> 01:25:27,840
just absolutely deny that you could predicate any name of

1412
01:25:27,880 --> 01:25:33,239
the divinessence, including God or anything. Okay, so that's not yeah,

1413
01:25:33,720 --> 01:25:36,239
yeah no, So just check out the just check out

1414
01:25:36,279 --> 01:25:39,560
the videos I did with both at Orthodox you had us.

1415
01:25:40,039 --> 01:25:42,560
Speaker 1: Just go over to my community tab on my channel

1416
01:25:42,640 --> 01:25:44,720
right there, the community tab, and if you look at

1417
01:25:44,760 --> 01:25:48,439
the first one there, David has a three hour lecture

1418
01:25:48,520 --> 01:25:51,520
on Mayaphi site. So there's the answer to the myophasite question.

1419
01:25:51,600 --> 01:25:53,960
Scroll down a little bit and I have a one

1420
01:25:54,039 --> 01:25:57,840
hour talk from two days ago with al Fadi on

1421
01:25:58,159 --> 01:26:00,600
the monarchy of the Father. So it's all it's all

1422
01:26:00,680 --> 01:26:02,960
right there, or you can go to.

1423
01:26:03,000 --> 01:26:08,800
Speaker 5: My twenty four hour talk hours. By the way, guys,

1424
01:26:08,880 --> 01:26:12,239
I'm gonna I need. I want to say what a blessing,

1425
01:26:12,520 --> 01:26:18,600
my prayers to you all and great questions and thank

1426
01:26:18,680 --> 01:26:21,880
you Jay Lewis so Bros.

1427
01:26:23,560 --> 01:26:25,479
Speaker 1: Thank you, Father. Well, I'm still here. We got we

1428
01:26:25,560 --> 01:26:27,319
got our largest crowd yet, We're right.

1429
01:26:27,640 --> 01:26:29,119
Speaker 5: Yeah, I just I just wanted to bow out in

1430
01:26:29,199 --> 01:26:32,239
case there of questions directed at me. Okay, I'm sure

1431
01:26:32,279 --> 01:26:33,600
you guys will be fine to answer that.

1432
01:26:33,880 --> 01:26:36,399
Speaker 1: I'll put Father Deacon in and eye. I'll put everybody's

1433
01:26:36,479 --> 01:26:39,039
channels below as well. When the stream is done, so

1434
01:26:39,079 --> 01:26:41,000
I'll be sure and follow Father Deacon and then they'll

1435
01:26:41,039 --> 01:26:44,560
have Lewis and Kai and everybody's snacks stuff too. So

1436
01:26:45,600 --> 01:26:49,239
David as well, Thank you, Father, appreciate that absolutely.

1437
01:26:49,319 --> 01:26:50,760
Speaker 2: David. Yeah, O cool.

1438
01:26:50,800 --> 01:26:54,279
Speaker 6: Thanks to see if other from this, let's try let's

1439
01:26:54,359 --> 01:26:55,960
keep trailblazing through these Muslim questions.

1440
01:26:56,000 --> 01:26:58,920
Speaker 4: Yeah, can you explain why the Trinity is not in

1441
01:26:59,039 --> 01:27:02,119
the Old Testament and why it was only reviewed during

1442
01:27:02,239 --> 01:27:03,680
Jesus's missionary.

1443
01:27:05,439 --> 01:27:07,760
Speaker 1: Like every debate and topic that we've had on this

1444
01:27:07,880 --> 01:27:10,640
top on this question is arguing the Trinity from the

1445
01:27:10,680 --> 01:27:14,479
Old Testament. So first of all, go look at all

1446
01:27:14,520 --> 01:27:17,600
the things that we've done to date, every time that

1447
01:27:17,720 --> 01:27:20,920
I've had a discussion with Sam, with any the whole

1448
01:27:20,960 --> 01:27:23,840
list that I put up on the whiteboard, it's all

1449
01:27:24,039 --> 01:27:27,880
the Theophanes of the Old Testament. That's the Trinity. Okay, Father, Son,

1450
01:27:27,960 --> 01:27:30,520
and Spirit are all over the Old Testament, so go

1451
01:27:30,680 --> 01:27:33,239
watch those and you'll see where I cover all the

1452
01:27:33,319 --> 01:27:37,039
Theophanes in Genesis. This is a personage separate from the

1453
01:27:37,119 --> 01:27:40,279
person of the Father, who's given worship, who's given the

1454
01:27:40,319 --> 01:27:43,479
divine name, who's called the Redeemer, who's called Yahweh, who's

1455
01:27:43,520 --> 01:27:46,239
called the Lord, he's called God, he's called all of

1456
01:27:46,319 --> 01:27:49,640
these things consistently. Right, I've done many, many talks. I

1457
01:27:50,079 --> 01:27:52,960
have a whole stream on the Theophanes and and the

1458
01:27:53,039 --> 01:27:55,239
Trinity in the Old Testament. Just a stream on that

1459
01:27:55,359 --> 01:27:58,000
you can go watch. That is Jesus God is the

1460
01:27:58,079 --> 01:28:01,319
Trinity Biblical. That's whole stream against rocking mister e And

1461
01:28:01,520 --> 01:28:04,600
all I do is argue at this point, read Zechariah one.

1462
01:28:05,159 --> 01:28:10,000
There you'll see Father, Redeemer, Angel, the Lord, and Spirit.

1463
01:28:10,520 --> 01:28:12,399
If you read the book of Isaiah. I just did

1464
01:28:12,439 --> 01:28:14,319
a talk on Isaiah, and I talked about the many

1465
01:28:14,359 --> 01:28:17,960
instances where you find the triad in Isaiah. So the

1466
01:28:18,159 --> 01:28:22,640
doctrine of the Trinity as explicated by the Cappadocians and

1467
01:28:22,760 --> 01:28:27,159
the Niceno Constantopolitan Creed is not in the Old Testament,

1468
01:28:27,279 --> 01:28:30,319
because we believe in redemptive history that there is a

1469
01:28:30,800 --> 01:28:34,560
period where there's a coming of the Church that completes

1470
01:28:34,840 --> 01:28:37,880
the fulfillments of the prophecies of the Old Testament. So

1471
01:28:38,079 --> 01:28:43,279
obviously the life of the Messiah is not going to

1472
01:28:43,319 --> 01:28:46,119
be present in its full form prior to the coming

1473
01:28:46,199 --> 01:28:49,600
of the Messiah. Obviously the prophecies of Isaiah are not

1474
01:28:49,680 --> 01:28:53,239
going to be present prior to Isaiah. So that's like saying,

1475
01:28:53,720 --> 01:28:57,079
why isn't the fulfillment of all these things there before

1476
01:28:57,079 --> 01:29:00,159
the fulfillment? It doesn't make any sense because of the

1477
01:29:00,239 --> 01:29:04,920
progression of progressive revelation, redemptive history, and the fulfillment of

1478
01:29:04,960 --> 01:29:09,600
these things when the Messiah comes. So obviously, look, that's like, look,

1479
01:29:09,720 --> 01:29:13,199
there's not a full fledged, full revelation in the sense

1480
01:29:13,279 --> 01:29:17,239
of what Isaiah has in the time of Abraham. Right,

1481
01:29:18,199 --> 01:29:20,800
does does Abraham know as much as Isaiah?

1482
01:29:21,000 --> 01:29:21,039
Speaker 2: No?

1483
01:29:21,760 --> 01:29:26,439
Speaker 1: Obviously would we therefore conclude from that that Isaiah is

1484
01:29:26,680 --> 01:29:30,399
false because it's not fully revealed in Abraham's day all

1485
01:29:30,439 --> 01:29:33,199
the things that Isaiah said. Of course, not so in

1486
01:29:33,279 --> 01:29:36,880
the same way, just because not everything that's fully revealing

1487
01:29:36,880 --> 01:29:39,800
in the New Testament is not present in the Old Testament.

1488
01:29:39,920 --> 01:29:42,520
We don't cancel it out. That's just presupposing that we're

1489
01:29:42,560 --> 01:29:45,279
not the fulfillment, but we are the fulfillment. That's the

1490
01:29:45,319 --> 01:29:48,439
point here, right. The New Testament is the fulfillment of

1491
01:29:48,600 --> 01:29:51,760
what the Old Testament is. Looking forward to countless Old

1492
01:29:51,800 --> 01:29:54,640
Testament prophecy. How many times does it say the gentiles

1493
01:29:54,920 --> 01:29:57,439
will be brought into the Covenant, that they will be

1494
01:29:57,640 --> 01:30:01,000
worshiping the God of Israel, and that when the Gentiles

1495
01:30:01,039 --> 01:30:03,399
begin to convert in mass, that's when you'll know the

1496
01:30:03,479 --> 01:30:05,520
Messiah has come. And what do you know, when Jesus

1497
01:30:05,640 --> 01:30:10,960
comes suddenly entire Gentile nations for centuries, for millennia converting. Obviously,

1498
01:30:11,079 --> 01:30:14,399
Jesus is the Messiah. So this kind of Muslim argument

1499
01:30:14,600 --> 01:30:17,720
just is based on ignorance about our theology and the

1500
01:30:18,680 --> 01:30:22,000
notion of the completion of the Old Testament prophecies in

1501
01:30:22,119 --> 01:30:22,920
the person of Christ.

1502
01:30:24,520 --> 01:30:27,039
Speaker 6: Can I add to that, guy I Chris here he

1503
01:30:27,560 --> 01:30:30,840
can add as well, is the we have to really

1504
01:30:30,880 --> 01:30:33,439
consider also that even in Islam there's a development of

1505
01:30:33,479 --> 01:30:38,560
the theology of God over debates for centuries after the Qur'an.

1506
01:30:39,800 --> 01:30:41,800
I don't know, you may not. Whoever asked a question

1507
01:30:41,920 --> 01:30:43,960
may not be familiar with this, but there ends up

1508
01:30:44,039 --> 01:30:51,079
being a very specific formulation of what attributes there are,

1509
01:30:51,279 --> 01:30:55,159
what an attribute is, what constitutes an attribute, how they

1510
01:30:55,279 --> 01:30:58,479
relate to creation, whether or not, how they relate to

1511
01:30:58,560 --> 01:31:01,560
the essence of God, and those are very precise, and

1512
01:31:01,640 --> 01:31:04,479
they're not contained in that in their formulation of as

1513
01:31:04,560 --> 01:31:08,920
part of Klam philosophy inside the inside the Qur'an, but

1514
01:31:09,000 --> 01:31:12,520
they are still required believing for people who are part

1515
01:31:12,560 --> 01:31:14,760
of those schools. So I don't know if you're if

1516
01:31:14,800 --> 01:31:17,720
you're a Salafie, but that's mainstream Synism anyway.

1517
01:31:17,960 --> 01:31:20,199
Speaker 1: Yeah, but as we see every time we get into

1518
01:31:20,239 --> 01:31:22,840
this kind of argument, it's moved the goalposts. Right, Oh

1519
01:31:22,920 --> 01:31:24,239
that's the case for you, but not for me.

1520
01:31:29,439 --> 01:31:35,880
Speaker 3: But in all fairness, if I can just must yeah, yeah.

1521
01:31:36,359 --> 01:31:42,199
Speaker 13: Muslims in the majority, they are even just completey ignorant

1522
01:31:42,399 --> 01:31:45,840
of their own traditions, and so they don't even know

1523
01:31:46,159 --> 01:31:51,399
that there was this development within Islam itself. They are

1524
01:31:51,840 --> 01:31:55,640
typically of a mindset like that Islam is has been

1525
01:31:55,760 --> 01:32:00,159
static for fourteen hundred years, that it was revealed and

1526
01:32:00,600 --> 01:32:05,319
hasn't changed one bit, and so they just either there's

1527
01:32:05,359 --> 01:32:08,760
just a dumbfounded when you start encountering them on this,

1528
01:32:08,920 --> 01:32:10,119
and then they'll just start making up.

1529
01:32:10,119 --> 01:32:13,640
Speaker 3: Excuses and this and that, switching positions. Yeah.

1530
01:32:15,119 --> 01:32:18,720
Speaker 6: Yeah, it's just important to note that, you know, if

1531
01:32:18,760 --> 01:32:22,279
you want to, you know, we're happy to say, for

1532
01:32:22,359 --> 01:32:25,159
the sake of debate, if you're willing to accept that

1533
01:32:25,199 --> 01:32:27,880
our scriptures hold our core doctrines, then we're happy to

1534
01:32:28,000 --> 01:32:31,159
accept that the Quran holds the you know, the specific

1535
01:32:32,399 --> 01:32:35,479
like ashari or matter ready formulation for the sake of debate.

1536
01:32:35,600 --> 01:32:38,239
But you know, if you're going to use that argument,

1537
01:32:38,319 --> 01:32:40,640
you know that the trinity that even the hardware or

1538
01:32:40,720 --> 01:32:43,560
as Jay use, the analogy of the gems, the the

1539
01:32:43,880 --> 01:32:47,279
or the raw or of the trinity isn't in the

1540
01:32:47,359 --> 01:32:50,479
biblical text. Then you know, we're just going to say that,

1541
01:32:50,840 --> 01:32:54,439
you know that the attribute specific attribute theology isn't there

1542
01:32:54,479 --> 01:32:55,399
in the Quran.

1543
01:32:55,199 --> 01:33:01,279
Speaker 1: Either, right exactly? Yeah, excellent point. How chicken baby five

1544
01:33:01,359 --> 01:33:06,159
dollars can you explain the Trinity? For NWBS? There is

1545
01:33:06,239 --> 01:33:10,119
an eight minute video that somebody clipped where I did

1546
01:33:10,520 --> 01:33:13,039
this kind of an explanation of the Trinity. I think

1547
01:33:13,159 --> 01:33:17,600
it's on this Institium Bourbum website or channel. I'll post that,

1548
01:33:17,840 --> 01:33:21,840
but basically, we believe on the basis of what's in

1549
01:33:22,039 --> 01:33:24,640
revelation what the Trinity is right, so it's not sitting

1550
01:33:24,680 --> 01:33:28,439
around and philosophically speculating. Primarily that gives us the doctor

1551
01:33:28,479 --> 01:33:31,000
of the Trinity at scripture. So the Old Testament reveals

1552
01:33:31,439 --> 01:33:35,479
God the Father, and God the Father has this secondary

1553
01:33:36,680 --> 01:33:40,239
person that he generates that is the Angel of the Lord,

1554
01:33:40,359 --> 01:33:42,560
that is the Messenger of the Covenant, that is the

1555
01:33:42,640 --> 01:33:46,560
Angel Redeemer. In the Old Testament, there's many, many, many passages.

1556
01:33:46,640 --> 01:33:49,840
Again I've gone over this many many times, and that

1557
01:33:51,319 --> 01:33:53,680
Angel of the Lord so to speak, is revealed to

1558
01:33:53,800 --> 01:33:57,319
be fully divine right and eventually revealed as the Son

1559
01:33:57,359 --> 01:33:59,560
of God. We say so, we say that that is

1560
01:33:59,680 --> 01:34:02,479
Jesus right, because Jesus the Trinity has always been there.

1561
01:34:02,520 --> 01:34:05,800
It's always been who God is. It didn't change or

1562
01:34:05,840 --> 01:34:09,119
become three gods or something like this. It's always been Father, Son,

1563
01:34:09,159 --> 01:34:12,800
and Spirit. But the full revelation of that was progressive.

1564
01:34:13,239 --> 01:34:17,760
Now even in Judaism there's progressive revelation. Again, they don't

1565
01:34:17,760 --> 01:34:22,199
believe that Isaiah or excuse me, in the time of Abraham,

1566
01:34:22,439 --> 01:34:25,319
that you know, Abraham knew as much as Isaiah would

1567
01:34:25,399 --> 01:34:27,479
know or Malachi or any of the later prophets right,

1568
01:34:27,520 --> 01:34:31,720
because there's more revelation that comes via the Spirit of

1569
01:34:31,760 --> 01:34:36,079
God speaking through the Old Testament prophets. So this revelation

1570
01:34:36,279 --> 01:34:39,479
is progressive. It never contradicts previous revelation. But it's very

1571
01:34:39,560 --> 01:34:43,439
clear in again dozens and dozens and dozens of passages

1572
01:34:43,479 --> 01:34:46,880
in the Old Testament that it's not just a strict

1573
01:34:47,199 --> 01:34:50,439
Father God. There's also this Angel of the Lord, this

1574
01:34:50,960 --> 01:34:55,680
theophanic manifestation that wrestles with Jacob, that speaks to Manoah's parents,

1575
01:34:55,760 --> 01:34:58,520
that goes to battle for the Israelites, that's present in

1576
01:34:59,119 --> 01:35:03,720
the the burning bush right, that appears to David, even

1577
01:35:03,880 --> 01:35:08,119
in the historical books, that appears over the altar of Israel,

1578
01:35:08,960 --> 01:35:11,000
the cloud, the pillar, over and over and over. We

1579
01:35:11,079 --> 01:35:14,079
see this stuff throughout the Old Testament. Ezekiel sees, and

1580
01:35:14,159 --> 01:35:17,319
Ezekiel one, and Ezekiel ten, Ezekiel one, and Ezigel nine

1581
01:35:17,359 --> 01:35:19,920
and ten. This wheel and then in the midst of

1582
01:35:20,239 --> 01:35:22,840
this chariot that he sees is one like the son

1583
01:35:22,880 --> 01:35:25,000
of Man. That's the same one like a son of

1584
01:35:25,039 --> 01:35:28,279
Man that Daniel sees right in his vision in Daniel seven.

1585
01:35:28,359 --> 01:35:31,359
It's the same that's what we're saying, that's all we're saying. Now,

1586
01:35:31,880 --> 01:35:36,039
that's Father, that's son, and spirit. Spirit is mentioned many times, right,

1587
01:35:36,119 --> 01:35:39,479
It's mentioned in Genesis, it's mentioned in Zechariah one, it's

1588
01:35:39,520 --> 01:35:43,119
mentioned in Isaiah. So we consistently see in many, even

1589
01:35:43,279 --> 01:35:47,399
in many chapters of Isaiah, this triadic manifestation of Father,

1590
01:35:48,000 --> 01:35:51,359
Angel of the Lord, Messenger's son, and the Spirit of

1591
01:35:51,399 --> 01:35:53,199
the Lord. The Spirit of the Lord does this spirit.

1592
01:35:53,479 --> 01:35:55,359
So how is the Spirit of the Lord doing this

1593
01:35:55,479 --> 01:36:00,720
and that and yet also being distinguished from Father and Messenger,

1594
01:36:00,800 --> 01:36:04,319
Angel of the Lord logos. Well, because there's three persons.

1595
01:36:05,000 --> 01:36:07,039
And when we get to the New Testament, which again

1596
01:36:07,079 --> 01:36:10,800
we're saying, is the fulfillments, the full explanation and explication

1597
01:36:11,079 --> 01:36:15,960
of the Old Testament, there's not a discontinuity. It's continuity. Right.

1598
01:36:16,000 --> 01:36:18,680
When we see Jesus in the Book of John, especially

1599
01:36:18,800 --> 01:36:20,319
not just the Book of John, but in the Book

1600
01:36:20,319 --> 01:36:25,039
of John right fourteen, sixteen seventeen, he goes into linky

1601
01:36:25,119 --> 01:36:29,079
explanations of the relationship between him and the Father and

1602
01:36:29,279 --> 01:36:33,760
the Spirit who he will send. So it's imperfect. When

1603
01:36:33,800 --> 01:36:37,159
you are really fluent in the Old Testament, you see

1604
01:36:37,199 --> 01:36:40,840
it everywhere it's like it's a no brainer. It's like, well, yeah,

1605
01:36:40,920 --> 01:36:42,399
this is everywhere in the Old Testament. What are you

1606
01:36:42,439 --> 01:36:46,399
talking about? So the fact that modern day Jews debate

1607
01:36:46,520 --> 01:36:51,079
over this is really irrelevant to our position. It doesn't

1608
01:36:51,079 --> 01:36:53,600
mean anything. I mean, it's just relevant in the sense

1609
01:36:53,640 --> 01:36:56,000
that it's like an academic you know, dispute or whatever.

1610
01:36:56,079 --> 01:36:59,840
But to our theology, it doesn't matter because we don't

1611
01:36:59,880 --> 01:37:04,000
have the same theology as modern Judaism obviously. I mean,

1612
01:37:04,039 --> 01:37:08,319
you see rabbinical debates after you know, the the first

1613
01:37:08,439 --> 01:37:11,960
century with Judaism and Christianity part ways. When you get

1614
01:37:12,000 --> 01:37:15,000
the eventually the different talmuds that are that are put together,

1615
01:37:15,920 --> 01:37:20,000
you see debates amongst rabbis over what these Theophanes are,

1616
01:37:20,520 --> 01:37:22,199
you know, is it the essence of God? Is it

1617
01:37:22,279 --> 01:37:25,000
a second manifestation of God? Is it an emanation? Is

1618
01:37:25,079 --> 01:37:27,960
it uh, some sort of angelic metatron being?

1619
01:37:28,159 --> 01:37:28,439
Speaker 5: Is it this?

1620
01:37:28,680 --> 01:37:28,960
Speaker 3: Is it that?

1621
01:37:29,520 --> 01:37:31,600
Speaker 1: Is it a hologram an angel? Right, so they have

1622
01:37:31,840 --> 01:37:35,840
the same debates right going on that we will see

1623
01:37:35,840 --> 01:37:38,520
when we bring this topic up. Right, It's an echo

1624
01:37:38,680 --> 01:37:41,880
of the debate that that Justin Martyr has with Tripho.

1625
01:37:43,039 --> 01:37:45,279
What does Justin mart keep going to the Angel of

1626
01:37:45,319 --> 01:37:48,479
the Lord. Right, Why is the Angel Lord given worship?

1627
01:37:49,279 --> 01:37:55,720
Only God can be worshiped anyway. So the easiest way

1628
01:37:55,800 --> 01:37:58,239
to start with the Trinity is I got lost in

1629
01:37:58,279 --> 01:38:00,479
that explanation. But these way to start with this is

1630
01:38:00,560 --> 01:38:02,840
to start with the Bible. Right, So we're not because

1631
01:38:02,840 --> 01:38:06,159
we're not basing this on philosophy like oh the you know,

1632
01:38:06,279 --> 01:38:08,119
I sat around and I read a bunch of Plato,

1633
01:38:08,159 --> 01:38:10,159
and I figured out, you know, based on number theory,

1634
01:38:10,239 --> 01:38:12,640
that now there are analogies that you can make to

1635
01:38:12,800 --> 01:38:15,279
numbers and this kind of stuff. Think about one to

1636
01:38:15,359 --> 01:38:19,119
the third power, right, that's one thing and three things

1637
01:38:19,159 --> 01:38:21,399
at the same time. Think about the number three. It's

1638
01:38:22,039 --> 01:38:24,319
singular and it's also triadic at once.

1639
01:38:24,520 --> 01:38:24,600
Speaker 13: Right.

1640
01:38:24,640 --> 01:38:26,800
Speaker 1: I Mean, there's all kinds of things in the world

1641
01:38:26,920 --> 01:38:29,920
that do have a one and many aspects to them

1642
01:38:30,000 --> 01:38:33,680
that the church fathers frequently make usage of to demonstrate

1643
01:38:33,920 --> 01:38:36,680
a one many relationship that's analogous to God, not a

1644
01:38:36,720 --> 01:38:39,680
one to one correspondent's been an analogy. They do it

1645
01:38:39,720 --> 01:38:43,880
all the time. They do mind, will and soul right

1646
01:38:44,079 --> 01:38:48,159
or spirit as an analogy, on on and on. So

1647
01:38:48,239 --> 01:38:50,560
there's all kinds of things that are analogous to something

1648
01:38:50,640 --> 01:38:56,439
being one and many. But there's no perfect creaturely analog

1649
01:38:56,760 --> 01:38:59,920
or one to one correspondence to God because God may

1650
01:39:00,199 --> 01:39:04,640
the creatures, and so by definition God being infinite, being omniscient, etc.

1651
01:39:05,119 --> 01:39:07,359
There's never going to be anything that perfectly matches up

1652
01:39:07,399 --> 01:39:11,199
to God. So that's why we're talking about on one level,

1653
01:39:11,279 --> 01:39:14,720
a revelation for us that is kind of the final authority.

1654
01:39:15,520 --> 01:39:17,479
But that doesn't mean that it's out of accord with

1655
01:39:17,680 --> 01:39:21,079
logic or reasoning or these kinds of things. Because the

1656
01:39:21,199 --> 01:39:25,520
created world and the logic and the principles of logic, numbers, math,

1657
01:39:25,640 --> 01:39:28,880
whatever that God has put into place in the created order,

1658
01:39:29,399 --> 01:39:32,439
they do bear some correspondence to the mind of God.

1659
01:39:33,279 --> 01:39:35,319
And so there can be at one at a certain

1660
01:39:35,399 --> 01:39:39,399
level and analogia analogies that are made, but we don't

1661
01:39:39,479 --> 01:39:42,600
do a one to one correspondence as if the number

1662
01:39:42,680 --> 01:39:46,680
one is equal to God's unity. God's unity is not

1663
01:39:46,800 --> 01:39:49,239
identical to the number one. The number one is a

1664
01:39:49,359 --> 01:39:50,279
created concept.

1665
01:39:54,840 --> 01:39:58,920
Speaker 2: Next mism question, Okay, so this is or from the

1666
01:39:58,960 --> 01:39:59,359
same guy.

1667
01:40:00,079 --> 01:40:04,479
Speaker 4: The next not mind memory boring questions, So do you

1668
01:40:04,560 --> 01:40:07,600
believe the Bible is preserved or even a trustworthy document

1669
01:40:07,680 --> 01:40:09,720
about the life of Jesus and his teachings.

1670
01:40:10,319 --> 01:40:13,079
Speaker 1: Absolutely, we have we have to believe that. I mean

1671
01:40:13,119 --> 01:40:15,479
that the doctrine of the inspirational Scriptures is part of

1672
01:40:15,560 --> 01:40:19,359
our dogmatic theology. There's no church father who denies that.

1673
01:40:20,560 --> 01:40:23,199
Speaker 2: Yeah, the next part and then thank God, we can

1674
01:40:23,279 --> 01:40:25,760
move on. He says, if you have Okay, So he's

1675
01:40:25,760 --> 01:40:27,720
posing necessarily.

1676
01:40:27,359 --> 01:40:29,279
Speaker 6: If the Bible, if we believe it is not preserved,

1677
01:40:29,359 --> 01:40:30,720
you don't need we don't need to ask that one.

1678
01:40:31,880 --> 01:40:33,039
Speaker 2: Yeah, I think we'll just skip that.

1679
01:40:33,199 --> 01:40:36,119
Speaker 6: I mean he said, he said, he said, if you

1680
01:40:36,239 --> 01:40:39,079
accept the Bible is not preserved, the question for but

1681
01:40:39,359 --> 01:40:41,159
we we accept as preserved.

1682
01:40:41,199 --> 01:40:44,079
Speaker 1: I mean there's yeah, we don't accept that premise.

1683
01:40:44,159 --> 01:40:48,560
Speaker 2: So yeah, it's dumb. Okay. It's like saying, can you

1684
01:40:48,680 --> 01:40:50,439
imagine infinity?

1685
01:40:50,600 --> 01:40:55,279
Speaker 1: Could you imagine a well, where's that? Imagine a universe?

1686
01:40:55,479 --> 01:40:59,079
Was there is a planet with a computer and no gun?

1687
01:41:00,960 --> 01:41:01,600
Speaker 3: The quant.

1688
01:41:03,680 --> 01:41:07,640
Speaker 4: Yeah, if you have the machine else maybe they can

1689
01:41:07,720 --> 01:41:08,760
take chill infinity.

1690
01:41:09,800 --> 01:41:11,239
Speaker 2: Uh okay.

1691
01:41:11,319 --> 01:41:14,159
Speaker 4: Next, is is there any good Orthodox books that deal

1692
01:41:14,239 --> 01:41:16,319
with Buddhism or Eastern religions?

1693
01:41:16,520 --> 01:41:19,479
Speaker 2: Does Saint Nicholas in Japan have any books on this subject?

1694
01:41:20,119 --> 01:41:22,800
Speaker 1: Orthodoxy in the religion the future deals with the far

1695
01:41:22,840 --> 01:41:26,880
Eastern religions. The now of Christ deals with the Eastern religions.

1696
01:41:28,079 --> 01:41:32,560
Speaker 2: Yeah, and that's what I mean, Baba seraph and rises

1697
01:41:32,640 --> 01:41:33,760
biography has.

1698
01:41:33,680 --> 01:41:35,640
Speaker 3: Some good stuff in that.

1699
01:41:36,079 --> 01:41:40,840
Speaker 1: The easiest, the easiest response is just orthodoxy in the

1700
01:41:40,880 --> 01:41:43,920
religion in the future, because he's he's talking about Hinduism.

1701
01:41:44,039 --> 01:41:45,880
But I mean that's kind of encompasses all of them.

1702
01:41:45,880 --> 01:41:51,039
Speaker 2: Really, Okay, does the Guru, the young man, and older

1703
01:41:51,079 --> 01:41:58,720
parties right humans? Yes?

1704
01:42:01,640 --> 01:42:01,960
Speaker 3: Okay.

1705
01:42:02,880 --> 01:42:07,239
Speaker 4: Does Islam have a one and many problem? For example,

1706
01:42:07,359 --> 01:42:09,560
if truth is one in many, how can the Islamic

1707
01:42:09,600 --> 01:42:13,640
God be the metaphysical metaphysical condition for the multiplicity of

1708
01:42:13,800 --> 01:42:17,800
unity of truth itself when Allah is without multiplicity in

1709
01:42:17,920 --> 01:42:18,319
his being?

1710
01:42:19,319 --> 01:42:22,600
Speaker 1: Yes, exactly. I mean that's an argument I've been making

1711
01:42:23,039 --> 01:42:27,279
sure well stated.

1712
01:42:28,720 --> 01:42:33,199
Speaker 6: The mainstream Sunny position has more multiplicity in God than

1713
01:42:33,399 --> 01:42:39,720
the Motazila Ads position that was rejected by mainstream Studdyism.

1714
01:42:41,600 --> 01:42:41,760
Speaker 4: Yeah.

1715
01:42:41,800 --> 01:42:43,720
Speaker 1: And I mean, even though there's all these different schools

1716
01:42:44,479 --> 01:42:48,439
because of the you know, emphasis on the transcendence of

1717
01:42:48,479 --> 01:42:50,960
God in Islam, I don't think you're going to ever

1718
01:42:51,039 --> 01:42:54,319
get a really sufficient coherent answer to that problem. So

1719
01:42:54,520 --> 01:42:57,960
there's always going to be the assumption of unicity as

1720
01:42:58,079 --> 01:43:06,279
metaphysically a ontologically prior or primary or superior. So they

1721
01:43:06,359 --> 01:43:12,000
can't really do justice to uh distinctions or multiplicity. And

1722
01:43:12,079 --> 01:43:14,760
by the way, it doesn't matter if they admit that

1723
01:43:16,319 --> 01:43:19,319
as well. But we don't have three persons and so therefore,

1724
01:43:19,479 --> 01:43:23,039
but the same problem arises with the attributes or the

1725
01:43:23,399 --> 01:43:26,079
actions of Allah. The same problem is still there.

1726
01:43:29,920 --> 01:43:31,039
Speaker 3: Okay. Yeah.

1727
01:43:31,079 --> 01:43:33,520
Speaker 6: That was one of the Jewish and Metazula critiques of

1728
01:43:33,600 --> 01:43:35,920
the Asheri and mat Ready position was that it was

1729
01:43:36,000 --> 01:43:38,640
too Christian because you believed in like they believed in,

1730
01:43:38,840 --> 01:43:41,239
you know, subsistent attributes that weren't Allah.

1731
01:43:42,039 --> 01:43:44,840
Speaker 3: Mm hmm. The problem that.

1732
01:43:48,960 --> 01:43:51,560
Speaker 1: We can't hear you. You have to speak up, you're

1733
01:43:51,560 --> 01:43:52,000
really low.

1734
01:43:54,159 --> 01:43:57,760
Speaker 13: God has to be absolutely unique, which makes it difficult

1735
01:43:57,800 --> 01:44:00,760
when you up at the group of.

1736
01:44:00,760 --> 01:44:05,680
Speaker 2: God such with life that are probably showed by Greek.

1737
01:44:06,960 --> 01:44:08,680
Speaker 1: Yeah, there's no analogy in that position.

1738
01:44:08,800 --> 01:44:11,239
Speaker 3: Yeah, the one of the many problem meticods very clearly.

1739
01:44:15,039 --> 01:44:20,560
Speaker 4: Okay, next question, I'm confused about the Christian explanation of suffering,

1740
01:44:20,680 --> 01:44:23,159
and I'm hopeful that the Orthodox view can offer a

1741
01:44:23,239 --> 01:44:26,640
more compelling explanation than the Protestant one, How did sin

1742
01:44:27,079 --> 01:44:29,880
have the effect of changing the fabric of reality from

1743
01:44:29,920 --> 01:44:33,560
the perfect pre false state to the current state after

1744
01:44:33,720 --> 01:44:36,640
the fall, so as to introduce suffering to the world.

1745
01:44:37,079 --> 01:44:39,399
It seems like the laws of physics themselves are in

1746
01:44:40,199 --> 01:44:44,079
are inhospitable to human life and course suffering. Example, a

1747
01:44:44,239 --> 01:44:46,640
rock can fall on one's head while walking under a cliff,

1748
01:44:47,000 --> 01:44:51,399
and this seems to be entirely causally disconnected from man's

1749
01:44:51,479 --> 01:44:55,920
sinful nature. How is sin connected with altering the laws

1750
01:44:55,960 --> 01:44:57,279
of physics post fall?

1751
01:45:00,079 --> 01:45:01,840
Speaker 1: If you want, if you're asking how in the sense

1752
01:45:01,880 --> 01:45:05,199
of the mechanics, nobody knows that. If you're asking how

1753
01:45:05,319 --> 01:45:09,479
in the sense of theological revelation, well, we're told that

1754
01:45:09,600 --> 01:45:13,960
that's the case, because the entire it's not like all

1755
01:45:14,079 --> 01:45:17,880
of the fabric of reality was changed. I mean man's body.

1756
01:45:18,239 --> 01:45:22,119
We have animalistic bodies because of the fall. Right, we

1757
01:45:22,199 --> 01:45:24,840
don't know what the pre false state of man's body

1758
01:45:24,960 --> 01:45:27,399
was like. We don't know what Eden was like. But

1759
01:45:27,640 --> 01:45:32,039
all of the way the normal course of things function

1760
01:45:32,279 --> 01:45:35,840
did not have, for example, the presence of decay, the

1761
01:45:35,880 --> 01:45:38,199
presence of death. All those things were foreign to Eden,

1762
01:45:39,520 --> 01:45:41,960
and we believe it on the basis of what's revealed, right,

1763
01:45:42,119 --> 01:45:45,600
so we don't we don't have to have an explanation

1764
01:45:45,720 --> 01:45:49,199
of the mechanics of exactly what, you know, the chemical

1765
01:45:49,239 --> 01:45:51,960
reactions that occurred when the fall happened. I mean, nobody's

1766
01:45:52,000 --> 01:45:56,000
ever going to know that. So, but whether there is

1767
01:45:56,079 --> 01:46:00,880
a connection between death and events to the natural world

1768
01:46:01,000 --> 01:46:03,840
and man sin, we believe it on the basis of revelation.

1769
01:46:06,159 --> 01:46:09,279
Speaker 2: Yeah, I also like that that is a very high

1770
01:46:09,399 --> 01:46:12,960
IQ way of asking the question, if God real, why

1771
01:46:13,079 --> 01:46:17,600
bad things happened? It was Yeah, very high IQ.

1772
01:46:18,000 --> 01:46:22,079
Speaker 1: But the same question Chris says for thirteen dollars and

1773
01:46:22,199 --> 01:46:24,800
nine cents, God bless you for your work. Well, thank you, Chris,

1774
01:46:24,920 --> 01:46:25,880
much appreciated for that.

1775
01:46:32,039 --> 01:46:37,319
Speaker 4: Okay, trying to find guys, please don't clutter it with

1776
01:46:37,479 --> 01:46:40,600
your like Jay's answering questions, not you.

1777
01:46:40,720 --> 01:46:44,880
Speaker 2: Guys, So please don't clutter it with your answers. Okay,

1778
01:46:46,159 --> 01:46:48,000
where can someone from a.

1779
01:46:48,039 --> 01:46:53,680
Speaker 4: Schismatic Apostolic church find out where they differ specifically as

1780
01:46:53,760 --> 01:46:56,760
in the reason why they are considered outside of the church.

1781
01:46:58,640 --> 01:47:01,319
Speaker 1: I mean, I guess that would depend on what schismatic

1782
01:47:01,399 --> 01:47:05,760
episode church you're talking about. That I mean, you're asking

1783
01:47:05,880 --> 01:47:08,560
me where to find out how your church differs. I

1784
01:47:08,600 --> 01:47:09,640
don't understand the question.

1785
01:47:11,319 --> 01:47:15,880
Speaker 2: Yeah, are so let's see very Antichalcedonian.

1786
01:47:16,520 --> 01:47:22,560
Speaker 1: So I don't know what question I mean again, go

1787
01:47:22,720 --> 01:47:25,319
watch David's videos if you're looking for where we say

1788
01:47:25,680 --> 01:47:26,479
we disagree with you.

1789
01:47:28,520 --> 01:47:32,039
Speaker 4: Yeah, David's videos are really good. The Orientals are just

1790
01:47:32,279 --> 01:47:32,920
scared of him.

1791
01:47:34,119 --> 01:47:40,920
Speaker 2: So yeah, let's see.

1792
01:47:44,359 --> 01:47:47,880
Speaker 4: If God is the infinite source of all being, from

1793
01:47:47,920 --> 01:47:50,640
which everything ultimately emerges, how can it.

1794
01:47:50,680 --> 01:47:53,000
Speaker 2: Be that evil things are not from God?

1795
01:47:53,239 --> 01:47:55,000
Speaker 4: I want to believe that God is good, but it

1796
01:47:55,039 --> 01:47:58,199
seems like I can't reconcile this with the notion of

1797
01:47:58,319 --> 01:47:59,319
God being.

1798
01:47:59,199 --> 01:48:00,520
Speaker 2: The source of all that exists.

1799
01:48:01,720 --> 01:48:05,880
Speaker 1: So evil has no being and no subsistent ontological status.

1800
01:48:06,079 --> 01:48:09,399
Evil is not a metaphysical reality. It's a negation, it's

1801
01:48:09,439 --> 01:48:11,840
a privation. It's a movement of the will away from

1802
01:48:11,880 --> 01:48:15,239
the good. So you will find that from the earliest

1803
01:48:15,319 --> 01:48:17,960
days of the Church up until to present day, we

1804
01:48:18,039 --> 01:48:22,199
have always explained what evil is in this way. So

1805
01:48:22,319 --> 01:48:28,079
we differ from pagan religions, from dualistic religions, Manicheanisms, or Astrianism,

1806
01:48:28,439 --> 01:48:32,119
and that we do not predicate any real existence to evil.

1807
01:48:32,600 --> 01:48:35,319
That does not mean that we're not saying there's no evil.

1808
01:48:36,000 --> 01:48:38,399
We're not saying there's no evil, we're saying that there's

1809
01:48:38,399 --> 01:48:42,960
no metaphysical, ontological status or substance to evil. Because when

1810
01:48:43,000 --> 01:48:45,960
God created the world, all that was created he said

1811
01:48:46,199 --> 01:48:50,760
was good. So being is inherently good. Being manifests the

1812
01:48:50,880 --> 01:48:54,319
quality of goodness because it's made in the image of

1813
01:48:54,479 --> 01:48:57,479
and on the basis of God's being, which is good.

1814
01:48:58,000 --> 01:49:01,159
God is good, His creation is good. It shares in

1815
01:49:01,239 --> 01:49:05,359
a participatory relationship with the goodness of God. So in

1816
01:49:05,479 --> 01:49:11,159
that way, nothing that exists or has being can be evil.

1817
01:49:11,680 --> 01:49:15,640
So what is evil, Well, evil is only a privation,

1818
01:49:16,279 --> 01:49:19,359
it is only a negation. It is only a movement

1819
01:49:19,399 --> 01:49:21,479
of the will away from the good. If we want

1820
01:49:21,479 --> 01:49:24,279
to use an analogy, we could think of something like numbers, right,

1821
01:49:24,560 --> 01:49:28,359
negative numbers. Do they have an existence? Not really? I

1822
01:49:28,439 --> 01:49:32,119
mean they're a movement away from one right, And so

1823
01:49:32,279 --> 01:49:35,479
in the same way, analogies to evil are things like darkness,

1824
01:49:36,199 --> 01:49:39,920
you know, non existence, non being. Those are the many

1825
01:49:40,039 --> 01:49:43,720
types of analogies that are used for moral evil. So

1826
01:49:43,880 --> 01:49:46,840
it's not so much a metaphysical thing as it is

1827
01:49:46,920 --> 01:49:48,079
a moral thing.

1828
01:49:50,039 --> 01:49:51,279
Speaker 2: Would you would you agree.

1829
01:49:51,079 --> 01:49:56,479
Speaker 6: With misstatement, like something like the lion increases in being

1830
01:49:56,640 --> 01:49:58,399
and the zebra decreases in being.

1831
01:50:00,680 --> 01:50:02,840
Speaker 2: No, that's like when the lion kills like when the

1832
01:50:02,960 --> 01:50:04,000
lion kills.

1833
01:50:03,760 --> 01:50:08,159
Speaker 1: The zebra some ludicrous, What do you I mean, Because.

1834
01:50:07,880 --> 01:50:10,840
Speaker 6: That's just that's tomistic, Like it's because the lion, because

1835
01:50:10,960 --> 01:50:14,319
the lion is for its own good, the lions seeking

1836
01:50:14,359 --> 01:50:16,479
its own good and fulfilling its own good.

1837
01:50:16,520 --> 01:50:18,520
Speaker 2: But the zebra. Obviously what's going on for the zebra

1838
01:50:18,680 --> 01:50:19,000
is bad.

1839
01:50:19,159 --> 01:50:22,680
Speaker 1: So but that wouldn't have anything to do with their

1840
01:50:22,920 --> 01:50:25,399
their status in terms of existence itself.

1841
01:50:27,560 --> 01:50:30,039
Speaker 6: No, yeah, but I mean in terms of just like

1842
01:50:30,279 --> 01:50:34,880
good and evil, the zebra is being privated of it's good.

1843
01:50:35,680 --> 01:50:38,399
Speaker 1: Oh well, that's that's so. Even the Western Church makes

1844
01:50:38,479 --> 01:50:41,359
the Latins even make a distinction between different types of

1845
01:50:41,560 --> 01:50:45,520
the senses of evil. So there's a the privatory sense

1846
01:50:45,680 --> 01:50:48,199
is an analogy for the moral sense. So if we

1847
01:50:48,279 --> 01:50:51,199
say that there's you know, if I lack sight, that's

1848
01:50:51,279 --> 01:50:53,439
not the same thing as a moral evil. It's a privation.

1849
01:50:53,640 --> 01:50:57,439
I lack the faculty of eyesight, so it's a it's

1850
01:50:57,479 --> 01:51:01,760
a negation. But that's even distinguished from moral evil, which

1851
01:51:01,880 --> 01:51:04,800
is you know, when I intentionally move my will away

1852
01:51:04,840 --> 01:51:07,199
from the good to do something evil. So even the

1853
01:51:07,279 --> 01:51:08,520
Latins will distinguish that.

1854
01:51:10,960 --> 01:51:12,880
Speaker 13: If I could just add on to that, There's one

1855
01:51:14,039 --> 01:51:18,000
egesis of Genesis that I really like in terms of

1856
01:51:18,600 --> 01:51:22,880
connecting this kind of question is if you notice Day

1857
01:51:22,960 --> 01:51:27,319
two of creation is not followed by and it was

1858
01:51:27,399 --> 01:51:32,000
good or God identifying it as good. And the one

1859
01:51:32,039 --> 01:51:34,199
thing that you can notice here is this is in

1860
01:51:34,319 --> 01:51:38,520
creation where you start seeing a separation. And so then

1861
01:51:38,840 --> 01:51:42,159
the separation would be analogous to this kind of privation

1862
01:51:42,479 --> 01:51:46,439
or moving away from God. And if you're moving away

1863
01:51:46,439 --> 01:51:49,079
from God, that is what is not good, that is

1864
01:51:50,000 --> 01:51:51,119
analogous to the sin.

1865
01:51:52,119 --> 01:51:55,720
Speaker 1: Yeah, I mean the darkness of Genesis one is not evil, right,

1866
01:51:55,880 --> 01:52:00,359
It's some sort of you know, potentiality within creation for

1867
01:52:01,399 --> 01:52:04,560
God organizing, you know, the creative world, you know, the

1868
01:52:04,640 --> 01:52:08,640
original abyss, whatever that is. It's not inherently evil. And

1869
01:52:08,760 --> 01:52:11,880
again darkness just like just like darkness isn't evil, right.

1870
01:52:11,920 --> 01:52:14,359
I mean, scripture says you made the day, you made

1871
01:52:14,399 --> 01:52:17,880
the night, right, there's nothing wrong with with nighttime? Okay.

1872
01:52:18,159 --> 01:52:22,359
Those are just analogies to moral movement away, like when

1873
01:52:22,399 --> 01:52:24,800
we say you are far from God. Right, it's not

1874
01:52:24,920 --> 01:52:29,560
a spatiotempal relationship. It's a spiritual moral relationship. But that's

1875
01:52:29,600 --> 01:52:34,479
a good point. Kai kung pal chicken wait. Searching for

1876
01:52:34,560 --> 01:52:39,279
a dollar says uh, searching for Windell says Is the

1877
01:52:39,399 --> 01:52:46,119
evidence for logic working equivalent to the evidence for God's existence? No,

1878
01:52:46,880 --> 01:52:49,720
because I would say that in order to ground logic itself,

1879
01:52:49,920 --> 01:52:52,119
you need the type of God that we argue for.

1880
01:52:52,359 --> 01:52:55,680
So I'm not equating God to logic. How should I

1881
01:52:55,880 --> 01:52:59,920
start my journey to believe voice? How do I know? Voices?

1882
01:53:01,520 --> 01:53:05,560
Voices in my head are not the general God. So

1883
01:53:05,680 --> 01:53:10,159
we don't go from those kinds of like you know,

1884
01:53:10,359 --> 01:53:13,760
personal mystical experiences. You might have a mystical experience, but

1885
01:53:13,840 --> 01:53:17,279
that's not how we go by knowing God or knowing

1886
01:53:17,439 --> 01:53:21,920
these religious truths. Again, Scripture is where we start. Scripture

1887
01:53:22,000 --> 01:53:25,760
is the primary source of revealed theology. There's other sources

1888
01:53:25,880 --> 01:53:28,960
that it comes to tradition and you read the Fathers

1889
01:53:29,000 --> 01:53:31,520
and this kind of stuff too, But like it starts

1890
01:53:31,560 --> 01:53:35,600
in scripture and nobody denies this right, So you're not

1891
01:53:35,760 --> 01:53:38,520
going to be listening to and this is a temptation

1892
01:53:38,640 --> 01:53:40,039
I think for a lot of people who are maybe

1893
01:53:40,159 --> 01:53:45,159
new to Christianity or whatever. They start thinking, Oh, it's

1894
01:53:45,239 --> 01:53:47,800
God telling me to not go to this to work

1895
01:53:47,840 --> 01:53:50,079
at this place anymore. Oh, God's telling me not that.

1896
01:53:51,359 --> 01:53:54,479
You need the first and foremost learn what God's telling

1897
01:53:54,520 --> 01:53:58,279
you from scripture, not from what you think you feel

1898
01:53:58,359 --> 01:54:01,119
at this and that time. That a way, don't worry

1899
01:54:01,119 --> 01:54:04,600
about it. You need to be catechized in scripture and

1900
01:54:04,720 --> 01:54:08,760
in the church. Then you can make the accurate judgment

1901
01:54:08,880 --> 01:54:11,479
calls as to well, God was telling me that I

1902
01:54:11,560 --> 01:54:13,560
need to move to this city. God's telling me I

1903
01:54:13,640 --> 01:54:16,680
need to date this person or not date that. God's

1904
01:54:16,760 --> 01:54:19,920
telling you what's in scripture first of all, and then

1905
01:54:19,960 --> 01:54:24,199
you're making your life decisions on being in accordance with

1906
01:54:24,279 --> 01:54:27,119
what's in scripture. Right, So don't listen to this like

1907
01:54:27,239 --> 01:54:32,640
the charismatic gibberish nonsense. Right, if you want to be married,

1908
01:54:32,760 --> 01:54:35,199
God gives you the freedom to make that choice. If

1909
01:54:35,239 --> 01:54:38,119
you want to be single and inter amonastery, God gives

1910
01:54:38,159 --> 01:54:39,800
you that freedom if you want to make that choice.

1911
01:54:40,159 --> 01:54:40,279
Speaker 11: Right.

1912
01:54:41,279 --> 01:54:43,840
Speaker 1: But so often people are like worried about God's will

1913
01:54:43,920 --> 01:54:45,800
for their life or what God's will is in scripture.

1914
01:54:46,039 --> 01:54:48,319
He tells you what to do right. I'm not saying

1915
01:54:48,359 --> 01:54:51,760
you can't have like a providential event that helps you

1916
01:54:52,000 --> 01:54:55,319
make decisions. But people are so obsessed.

1917
01:54:54,920 --> 01:54:55,399
Speaker 2: With like this.

1918
01:54:56,119 --> 01:54:58,119
Speaker 1: I can't wait for the dreams and the visions and

1919
01:54:58,199 --> 01:54:59,960
this kind of stuff. No, don't even worry about that.

1920
01:55:00,680 --> 01:55:03,840
God has told you what is good. Scripture says, so

1921
01:55:03,920 --> 01:55:06,399
you don't. You don't have to go through that bunch

1922
01:55:06,439 --> 01:55:09,840
of nonsense. You are. We already know what the will

1923
01:55:09,880 --> 01:55:13,399
of God is. It's revealed in scripture and in tradition

1924
01:55:13,479 --> 01:55:18,560
in the church. All Right, it cut out there Sometimes

1925
01:55:18,960 --> 01:55:21,119
discord crashes. But are you guys still there?

1926
01:55:22,319 --> 01:55:23,000
Speaker 2: Yeah, I'm here.

1927
01:55:23,359 --> 01:55:23,880
Speaker 1: Can you hear me?

1928
01:55:24,199 --> 01:55:29,880
Speaker 2: Yes, sir, very good. I literally just lost my place.

1929
01:55:30,039 --> 01:55:31,319
Give me a second. Six.

1930
01:55:31,399 --> 01:55:34,239
Speaker 1: Okay. He has shown you, oh man, what is good

1931
01:55:34,960 --> 01:55:38,000
to do? Justice, love, righteousness, you know, et cetera. Scripture

1932
01:55:38,000 --> 01:55:42,960
says this. You don't have to be hunkered over in

1933
01:55:43,039 --> 01:55:46,800
a corner, flopping around the ground speaking gibberish, waiting for

1934
01:55:46,920 --> 01:55:49,920
some so called prophet in the charismatic church to tell

1935
01:55:49,960 --> 01:55:51,880
you what God's will is. It's in scripture, dude.

1936
01:55:53,600 --> 01:55:54,800
Speaker 3: And we have a history.

1937
01:55:55,000 --> 01:55:57,319
Speaker 2: We have a historical question. Do you believe that the

1938
01:55:57,399 --> 01:55:59,920
shroud of Turin was housed in Constantine.

1939
01:56:00,960 --> 01:56:02,720
Speaker 1: I don't have any opinion on it. I don't know.

1940
01:56:03,119 --> 01:56:04,000
I'm not opposed to this.

1941
01:56:04,159 --> 01:56:05,640
Speaker 2: It was, Isn't that historical?

1942
01:56:05,920 --> 01:56:06,239
Speaker 1: I don't know.

1943
01:56:06,319 --> 01:56:08,800
Speaker 6: I mean, I mean, how can you have an opinion

1944
01:56:08,880 --> 01:56:10,319
on a historical fact.

1945
01:56:12,880 --> 01:56:16,479
Speaker 1: Well, I suppose some people can doubt what's believed to

1946
01:56:16,520 --> 01:56:18,720
be historical facts. I mean, it happens in Academia.

1947
01:56:21,880 --> 01:56:25,359
Speaker 6: Well, I thought the Crusaders took it from Constantinople back

1948
01:56:25,439 --> 01:56:27,279
to Venice.

1949
01:56:28,159 --> 01:56:29,119
Speaker 3: That's what I understood.

1950
01:56:30,199 --> 01:56:32,640
Speaker 1: I don't again, I don't have any pro or con

1951
01:56:32,960 --> 01:56:37,359
opinion of the shroud. I'm fine with it being Jesus

1952
01:56:37,840 --> 01:56:40,720
and a real relic or not. I don't have any

1953
01:56:40,720 --> 01:56:41,239
opinion on it.

1954
01:56:43,119 --> 01:56:47,239
Speaker 4: Next question is, would you, father, deacon, or another orthodoxicologist

1955
01:56:47,319 --> 01:56:51,000
in the circle consider writing a big book addressing frequently

1956
01:56:51,119 --> 01:56:53,119
asked questions about Orthodoxy.

1957
01:56:53,239 --> 01:56:54,960
Speaker 2: There's probably a book for it already.

1958
01:56:55,199 --> 01:56:57,520
Speaker 1: No, probably not. Yeah, I mean I think we have

1959
01:56:57,840 --> 01:56:58,840
plenty of those already.

1960
01:56:59,079 --> 01:57:03,439
Speaker 2: So yeah, if we have plenty of catechisms, Like I'm.

1961
01:57:03,359 --> 01:57:05,439
Speaker 1: Not a catechist, right, if you want to come to

1962
01:57:05,520 --> 01:57:07,239
the discord, and you know, there's plenty of people who

1963
01:57:07,239 --> 01:57:09,560
can do catechisis that's I'm not here to do that.

1964
01:57:10,520 --> 01:57:13,600
So anyway, Yeah, the.

1965
01:57:13,640 --> 01:57:17,159
Speaker 6: Admins here can do basic katakiss, so the baptized ones.

1966
01:57:17,159 --> 01:57:20,560
Speaker 1: Anyway, there's plenty of resources for that.

1967
01:57:20,800 --> 01:57:27,359
Speaker 2: So what is your view on divine command theory?

1968
01:57:29,279 --> 01:57:31,560
Speaker 1: We have an aspect of divine command theory, but we

1969
01:57:31,680 --> 01:57:36,159
also have aspects of the other views. I mean, if

1970
01:57:36,199 --> 01:57:40,479
you're talking about moral justification like Utafro dilemma.

1971
01:57:40,239 --> 01:57:40,359
Speaker 3: Is that?

1972
01:57:40,439 --> 01:57:40,840
Speaker 13: What is that?

1973
01:57:40,880 --> 01:57:41,520
Speaker 1: What they're getting at?

1974
01:57:43,640 --> 01:57:47,039
Speaker 2: That was just a question what was your view of it?

1975
01:57:47,520 --> 01:57:47,640
Speaker 3: Right?

1976
01:57:47,880 --> 01:57:52,880
Speaker 1: So if you're talking about the Utafro dilemma, I mean

1977
01:57:52,960 --> 01:57:56,039
I've answered this this many many times. We did Kallopian Club.

1978
01:57:56,159 --> 01:57:59,560
We had two different hour long discussions and two different

1979
01:58:00,960 --> 01:58:04,079
discord amas where we argued over this question. And I

1980
01:58:04,199 --> 01:58:09,800
try to explain that we don't equate the command of

1981
01:58:09,920 --> 01:58:13,840
God with so God doesn't have to submit to a

1982
01:58:13,960 --> 01:58:16,800
rule that's higher than him. And every time this question

1983
01:58:16,920 --> 01:58:18,720
is framed in the youth throw of the limit, they say, well,

1984
01:58:18,760 --> 01:58:22,159
then therefore God can just will the good to be

1985
01:58:22,359 --> 01:58:25,520
something opposite to itself. We don't believe that because we

1986
01:58:25,600 --> 01:58:29,359
have a different conception of God and the essence energy distinction. Right,

1987
01:58:29,439 --> 01:58:34,760
God's commands God's actions. What comes from God is on

1988
01:58:34,880 --> 01:58:37,279
the basis of his character, but it's not identical to

1989
01:58:37,399 --> 01:58:40,520
his character, so we don't identify God's will with his essence.

1990
01:58:48,560 --> 01:58:50,840
Speaker 3: Rip erse.

1991
01:58:53,880 --> 01:58:56,319
Speaker 1: Onward as theo Von says, onward.

1992
01:58:58,680 --> 01:58:59,880
Speaker 7: Okay, now what a back.

1993
01:59:06,079 --> 01:59:06,880
Speaker 2: Yeah, next question.

1994
01:59:08,199 --> 01:59:12,439
Speaker 4: Okay, So next question is what was the limit of

1995
01:59:12,640 --> 01:59:15,119
the Byzantine emperor's powers in the church.

1996
01:59:15,279 --> 01:59:16,880
Speaker 2: Could he appoint and remove.

1997
01:59:16,680 --> 01:59:23,680
Speaker 1: Bishops he's not supposed to. He probably was involved in

1998
01:59:25,439 --> 01:59:30,920
you know, those kinds of ceremonies or whatever. The emperor

1999
01:59:31,000 --> 01:59:33,479
can go behind the Kona stasis, so he's almost given

2000
01:59:33,520 --> 01:59:37,399
a quasi deaconant role because Paul describes the emperor as

2001
01:59:37,680 --> 01:59:42,640
a diaconos of God. But anytime the emperors tried to

2002
01:59:42,720 --> 01:59:45,000
do this, this was seen as a violation. I mean,

2003
01:59:45,000 --> 01:59:47,680
you have many heretical, heretic emperors who tried to do

2004
01:59:47,840 --> 01:59:50,039
this and tried to run the church and it never worked.

2005
01:59:50,760 --> 01:59:55,000
So but no, I don't think the emperors like took

2006
01:59:55,039 --> 01:59:58,039
over the church. If they ran the church and subverted it,

2007
01:59:58,520 --> 02:00:02,039
then we wouldn't have wor the doxy right, the heretic

2008
02:00:02,119 --> 02:00:05,039
emperors would have been condemned. But none of the heretic

2009
02:00:05,079 --> 02:00:06,600
emperors ever ended up victorious.

2010
02:00:09,439 --> 02:00:10,560
Speaker 2: Okay, we got a little bit.

2011
02:00:10,560 --> 02:00:13,600
Speaker 6: Pointed popes and stuff sometimes as well.

2012
02:00:16,000 --> 02:00:18,119
Speaker 1: Well, that's a good point in the in the in

2013
02:00:18,199 --> 02:00:24,359
the West, its same problems, right, I mean the papacy,

2014
02:00:24,439 --> 02:00:26,199
as we just did that stream with snack, I mean,

2015
02:00:26,239 --> 02:00:30,119
the papacy becomes a tool of the Franks, and that's

2016
02:00:30,199 --> 02:00:32,560
not even in question in terms of history.

2017
02:00:37,039 --> 02:00:39,840
Speaker 4: Okay, next question is this is a really weird one.

2018
02:00:40,119 --> 02:00:42,319
I just feel like banning the guy for asking it.

2019
02:00:42,439 --> 02:00:47,239
But what's the rationale behind the church prohibiting first cousin marriages?

2020
02:00:47,520 --> 02:00:47,560
Speaker 3: Is?

2021
02:00:48,119 --> 02:00:51,079
Speaker 4: Uh, it's practiced throughout the world, and it's not prohibited

2022
02:00:51,119 --> 02:00:54,720
in the Old Testament. Also, the genetic defects that result

2023
02:00:54,800 --> 02:00:57,880
from it are exaggerated. Yeah, okay, but I don't want

2024
02:00:57,920 --> 02:01:02,039
to marry my cousin. I'm just curious, okay, don't I

2025
02:01:02,079 --> 02:01:02,399
don't know.

2026
02:01:02,840 --> 02:01:03,680
Speaker 3: I mean, for.

2027
02:01:05,720 --> 02:01:07,800
Speaker 1: A friend, why can't I marry my president? I don't know.

2028
02:01:08,119 --> 02:01:10,279
Speaker 13: You look at the you look at the Arab world,

2029
02:01:10,359 --> 02:01:13,119
and then you say that the genetic defects is exaggerated.

2030
02:01:13,840 --> 02:01:14,920
Is not exaggerated?

2031
02:01:17,279 --> 02:01:22,479
Speaker 1: Bounty US five dollars? Couldn't a god of another faith

2032
02:01:22,640 --> 02:01:26,119
system have revealed himself to be similar in an essence.

2033
02:01:28,600 --> 02:01:32,600
In counter argument to TAG, no, because the TAG argument

2034
02:01:32,760 --> 02:01:35,680
is not just a rational argument for for our view

2035
02:01:35,800 --> 02:01:38,800
or an abstract argument. It's the TAG argument is the

2036
02:01:39,000 --> 02:01:41,920
entire Christian paradigm. That's the point. That's the strength of

2037
02:01:42,000 --> 02:01:44,319
TAG is that we're not arguing for a little piecemeal thing.

2038
02:01:45,039 --> 02:01:48,479
I mean, we might have to argue on the basis

2039
02:01:48,520 --> 02:01:50,840
of one area of the worldview at a time, just

2040
02:01:50,880 --> 02:01:54,159
because of the limitations of of us as humans, we

2041
02:01:54,199 --> 02:01:56,399
can only talk about one thing at a time. But

2042
02:01:56,560 --> 02:01:59,279
the argument, the TAG argument isn't just an argument for God.

2043
02:01:59,279 --> 02:02:01,800
If I'm arguing for the triune God, then I'm also

2044
02:02:01,960 --> 02:02:05,239
arguing for that whole paradigm, the God. Who didn't the

2045
02:02:05,279 --> 02:02:09,159
Triune God create the world? Didn't he have providence? Doesn't

2046
02:02:09,159 --> 02:02:12,079
he have you know, an incarnation, etcetera, etcetera. So it's

2047
02:02:12,279 --> 02:02:14,800
an argument for the whole paradigm, not just for an

2048
02:02:14,800 --> 02:02:21,319
abstraction of logical argumentations or mental structures or something like this.

2049
02:02:21,840 --> 02:02:24,079
So even if I start arguing on the basis of

2050
02:02:24,560 --> 02:02:28,279
logic or the metaphysical status of logical entities or whatever,

2051
02:02:29,039 --> 02:02:31,800
I'm just picking that as a place to argue the

2052
02:02:32,079 --> 02:02:35,640
entire paradigm. That's the point here. I'm not saying it's

2053
02:02:35,800 --> 02:02:39,199
true because I'm arguing for an entire paradigm. I'm saying

2054
02:02:39,239 --> 02:02:42,199
that that is the argument. The argument isn't just for

2055
02:02:42,680 --> 02:02:46,479
the Trinity, it's for the entire paradigm. You see. That's

2056
02:02:46,520 --> 02:02:51,399
why the argument is unique, because I can't argue piecemeal

2057
02:02:51,479 --> 02:02:53,600
and be consistent if I can't just argue for the

2058
02:02:53,680 --> 02:02:55,720
Trinity without the rest of the of the revelation of

2059
02:02:55,760 --> 02:02:59,520
the Trinity. Right, the revelation is holistic. It's not just

2060
02:02:59,600 --> 02:03:02,000
the trend, it's all the other dogmas they go along

2061
02:03:02,039 --> 02:03:04,239
with the Trinity. It's a whole system that I'm arguing for.

2062
02:03:04,399 --> 02:03:07,800
That's the point. So, no, you can't come up with

2063
02:03:07,880 --> 02:03:11,520
a ripoff version that's like the two god system or

2064
02:03:11,560 --> 02:03:15,439
the four gods system. That's all the things in your system,

2065
02:03:15,520 --> 02:03:18,880
but mine's for gods. Well, dude, that's actually just a ripoff,

2066
02:03:19,000 --> 02:03:23,239
and our argument is not divorced from history. Our argument

2067
02:03:23,319 --> 02:03:28,279
includes a God incarnate that's not going to be what

2068
02:03:28,399 --> 02:03:30,720
you argue for. Like, I mean, would you argue, did

2069
02:03:31,079 --> 02:03:34,560
did the four person God become incarnate? Really?

2070
02:03:34,800 --> 02:03:34,920
Speaker 3: Oh?

2071
02:03:35,000 --> 02:03:37,800
Speaker 1: Well, guess what, dude, that's from us, like you're ripping

2072
02:03:37,920 --> 02:03:39,720
off us, right, you see what I'm saying. I mean,

2073
02:03:39,960 --> 02:03:43,520
our whole system is already a two thousand year old

2074
02:03:43,640 --> 02:03:47,479
into history system based on four thousand year prior to

2075
02:03:47,640 --> 02:03:51,159
that Old Testament revelation. It's an entire system that we're

2076
02:03:51,239 --> 02:03:55,680
arguing for the whole thing, including history, including the Church,

2077
02:03:55,760 --> 02:04:00,319
including the incarnation. It's all part of the argument. So no,

2078
02:04:00,600 --> 02:04:05,479
you can't consistently just say, well, I have a you know,

2079
02:04:05,600 --> 02:04:08,520
trinity in my head that I've come up with that

2080
02:04:08,800 --> 02:04:12,239
solves all the epistemic dilemmas of your trinity system, and

2081
02:04:12,239 --> 02:04:15,520
therefore why can't I just post mine? Because my argument

2082
02:04:15,680 --> 02:04:19,399
is the entire Christian paradigm, all of it, ten Commandments,

2083
02:04:19,920 --> 02:04:21,920
Jesus in history, all that stuff.

2084
02:04:24,399 --> 02:04:30,079
Speaker 4: Okay, next question, Uh, I was wondering if Jay can

2085
02:04:30,119 --> 02:04:31,960
give a short elaboration.

2086
02:04:31,680 --> 02:04:41,039
Speaker 2: Of theosis difnation. Uh. Yeah, How it differs from Mormon view?

2087
02:04:42,880 --> 02:04:45,720
Speaker 1: Well, so, our our view is not that you become

2088
02:04:45,760 --> 02:04:46,880
a God of your own planet.

2089
02:04:47,119 --> 02:04:47,239
Speaker 2: Right.

2090
02:04:47,399 --> 02:04:51,520
Speaker 1: Our view is not that God the Father impregnated but Mary.

2091
02:04:55,319 --> 02:04:58,479
We don't bear any similarity to the Mormon view. Our

2092
02:04:58,600 --> 02:05:01,479
view is what the Church always taught, which is not

2093
02:05:01,600 --> 02:05:05,079
the Mormon view. Obviously, it's a participation in the uncreated

2094
02:05:05,239 --> 02:05:07,640
energies of God, which is not what Mormons teach. We

2095
02:05:07,720 --> 02:05:11,359
don't teach that the triad is a literal Father with

2096
02:05:11,479 --> 02:05:14,439
a body who impregnated Mary. All this goofy crazy that

2097
02:05:14,560 --> 02:05:17,560
we don't teach that, dude. Come on, So there's absolutely

2098
02:05:17,640 --> 02:05:20,119
no similarity to the Mormon view, because the Mormon view

2099
02:05:20,279 --> 02:05:23,880
is like a space opera, you know, like you're going

2100
02:05:23,920 --> 02:05:26,960
to be God of your own planet and have celestial

2101
02:05:27,119 --> 02:05:30,640
sex and space babies and that. What are you talking about, dude,

2102
02:05:30,760 --> 02:05:33,760
that's what That's not what we're talking about.

2103
02:05:37,159 --> 02:05:37,479
Speaker 5: Okay.

2104
02:05:37,880 --> 02:05:42,640
Speaker 4: Next one is when God cursed the serpent to eat

2105
02:05:43,000 --> 02:05:44,479
dust all the days of your life.

2106
02:05:44,880 --> 02:05:48,199
Speaker 2: But that had been a reference back to Adam being

2107
02:05:48,359 --> 02:05:50,199
formed from and returning to dust.

2108
02:05:50,439 --> 02:05:52,560
Speaker 4: Was God telling the serpent that it would feed on

2109
02:05:52,680 --> 02:05:54,319
dead matter and thus death itself?

2110
02:05:57,760 --> 02:06:00,439
Speaker 1: Yeah, I mean, I don't think that Satan or the

2111
02:06:00,560 --> 02:06:03,520
serpent literally feeds on dead matter. But there is a

2112
02:06:03,600 --> 02:06:06,399
connection between the dust of the earth and the curse

2113
02:06:07,039 --> 02:06:11,159
pretty consistently throughout scripture. Absolutely, just like thorns and briars

2114
02:06:11,239 --> 02:06:15,000
and thistles will come up. That's an image that's used

2115
02:06:15,000 --> 02:06:17,720
throughout the Old Testament of the curse of the Fall.

2116
02:06:18,000 --> 02:06:22,359
So yes, in a certain symbolic sense, but not like

2117
02:06:23,079 --> 02:06:26,279
snakes are literally eating dead things or something like that.

2118
02:06:28,520 --> 02:06:33,000
Speaker 2: Okay, next question is this is from someone seeking advice.

2119
02:06:33,119 --> 02:06:35,720
Speaker 4: He says, how should I deal with the fact that

2120
02:06:36,000 --> 02:06:39,800
most of the priests in my area are gambling, drunkard

2121
02:06:39,960 --> 02:06:45,279
di divorces, gallivanting with women of the nine.

2122
02:06:47,119 --> 02:06:48,760
Speaker 2: So the christ I guess is, how do you deal

2123
02:06:48,800 --> 02:06:51,479
with the fact that you have bad priests in your area?

2124
02:06:52,199 --> 02:06:54,039
Speaker 1: Yeah? Well, first of all, I mean I'm not convinced

2125
02:06:54,079 --> 02:06:57,199
that gambling itself is inherently always wrong. There's a little

2126
02:06:57,399 --> 02:07:00,600
this is ambiguous territory. I mean, if if I have

2127
02:07:00,680 --> 02:07:02,800
a business venture and I take out a loan or

2128
02:07:02,840 --> 02:07:05,800
whatever to I mean, that's a gamble. So I mean,

2129
02:07:05,840 --> 02:07:08,680
at what point exactly gambling is this is you know,

2130
02:07:08,760 --> 02:07:12,239
we're not Puritan Protestants here with this kind of stuff,

2131
02:07:12,279 --> 02:07:19,000
but I mean, there there's really no church that's immune

2132
02:07:19,079 --> 02:07:23,119
to corrupt leadership, right, that's in Protestants, that's in Roman Catholics,

2133
02:07:23,199 --> 02:07:26,920
it's Orthodox. I mean, this is this is just a

2134
02:07:27,039 --> 02:07:30,199
problem of the human domain. So I don't have any

2135
02:07:30,239 --> 02:07:32,159
easy answer as to what you can do other than

2136
02:07:32,520 --> 02:07:35,319
to try to find the best that you can that's

2137
02:07:35,439 --> 02:07:38,800
not corrupt. I mean, can you go to a different

2138
02:07:38,840 --> 02:07:41,439
city that's nearby if it's a little bit longer. I mean,

2139
02:07:41,479 --> 02:07:44,520
I've had to drive one two three hours before to

2140
02:07:44,600 --> 02:07:46,159
go to church. And if you if you've got a

2141
02:07:46,199 --> 02:07:48,119
long drive and it's you can't do it every Sunday,

2142
02:07:48,159 --> 02:07:50,439
then plan you know, like once a month to do

2143
02:07:51,119 --> 02:07:53,439
you know, your one month trip to the church that's

2144
02:07:53,479 --> 02:07:55,279
two hours away or whatever. I had to do that

2145
02:07:55,399 --> 02:07:58,159
for a long time before I had something closer to me.

2146
02:07:58,359 --> 02:08:02,239
So it's just, you know, I don't have any easy

2147
02:08:02,279 --> 02:08:04,760
answer for that kind of stuff, but it is unfortunate.

2148
02:08:04,840 --> 02:08:07,479
There are a lot of corrupt clergy out there, no

2149
02:08:07,560 --> 02:08:08,039
doubt about that.

2150
02:08:11,399 --> 02:08:16,279
Speaker 4: Next question is, if the Creator is separate from this

2151
02:08:16,479 --> 02:08:22,039
cosmos in a manner opposed to pantheism and panentheism, wouldn't

2152
02:08:22,079 --> 02:08:27,640
the totality comprised of Creator us his creation be more

2153
02:08:27,800 --> 02:08:32,119
encompassing than the Creator by himself, such that the aggregate

2154
02:08:32,560 --> 02:08:36,560
of Creator and creation then comprise a greater entity than

2155
02:08:36,640 --> 02:08:37,960
the Creator by himself.

2156
02:08:38,239 --> 02:08:42,319
Speaker 2: And wouldn't this mean that the aggregate slash totality.

2157
02:08:41,760 --> 02:08:46,560
Speaker 4: Would then better fit the characteristics of the absolute or God.

2158
02:08:47,399 --> 02:08:49,239
Speaker 2: Then would the creator alone.

2159
02:08:49,720 --> 02:08:52,600
Speaker 4: I have heard in places that Orthodoxy is panentheistic, but

2160
02:08:52,640 --> 02:08:54,319
I'm not sure if most orthodox.

2161
02:08:54,399 --> 02:08:58,600
Speaker 1: Would confirm, Well, this is equivocation on the notion of

2162
02:08:58,680 --> 02:09:02,439
what is greater or not greater? I mean, on what

2163
02:09:02,600 --> 02:09:05,960
basis are you saying that because there is God and creation,

2164
02:09:06,199 --> 02:09:09,600
that's somehow greater. Now we would say, with Dionysius in

2165
02:09:09,680 --> 02:09:12,800
the Divine Names, that the fact that God creates he

2166
02:09:12,920 --> 02:09:17,039
did intend to create to express and to share his goodness.

2167
02:09:17,760 --> 02:09:20,640
He wanted to share himself and his goodness with creatures.

2168
02:09:21,199 --> 02:09:24,640
So that is in a sense greater. But that doesn't

2169
02:09:24,680 --> 02:09:27,600
mean that it adds greater to God himself, right, because

2170
02:09:27,640 --> 02:09:31,439
God did not lack anything. And Maximus himself deals with

2171
02:09:31,560 --> 02:09:34,560
this question many places in the ambiguity where it comes

2172
02:09:34,640 --> 02:09:39,039
up with Well, if you read Toolos and his dissertation

2173
02:09:39,199 --> 02:09:42,640
on Maximus covers this question about well, why did God

2174
02:09:42,880 --> 02:09:46,279
choose to create? And Maximus says, we can't say other

2175
02:09:46,399 --> 02:09:48,960
than out of his own goodness. But his goodness doesn't

2176
02:09:49,000 --> 02:09:52,439
add to being like like, oh, God lacked, he was

2177
02:09:52,520 --> 02:09:55,119
lonely or something like that, and so he created because

2178
02:09:55,119 --> 02:09:56,359
he was lonely and needed more.

2179
02:09:56,439 --> 02:09:56,560
Speaker 3: You know.

2180
02:09:56,920 --> 02:10:01,039
Speaker 1: No, it's just out of pure, overflowing goodness and love,

2181
02:10:01,439 --> 02:10:04,680
is what Maximus says. So, uh, no, it doesn't add

2182
02:10:04,880 --> 02:10:08,960
to his being. And there's no there's no, there's no

2183
02:10:09,079 --> 02:10:12,279
aggregate goodness that like trumps the goodness that God has,

2184
02:10:12,439 --> 02:10:17,319
because the goodness that creation possesses is a participatory goodness

2185
02:10:17,399 --> 02:10:23,800
that God has. And by the way, panentheism is kind

2186
02:10:23,840 --> 02:10:26,359
of orthodox, so I'm confused as to what what what

2187
02:10:26,520 --> 02:10:29,079
that person is talking about. We don't believe in pantheism,

2188
02:10:29,119 --> 02:10:31,239
but we do believe that God permeates the creative order.

2189
02:10:31,319 --> 02:10:37,640
Speaker 4: Sure, okay, cool, it seems as if we actually got

2190
02:10:37,720 --> 02:10:38,520
through the questions.

2191
02:10:39,239 --> 02:10:42,039
Speaker 1: Also cool, Well, we've been going for two hours, so

2192
02:10:42,119 --> 02:10:43,439
let me see if there's any more of the super

2193
02:10:43,520 --> 02:10:45,560
check questions. Uh, there's a.

2194
02:10:45,600 --> 02:10:48,479
Speaker 2: Couple here that says we also got another one.

2195
02:10:48,600 --> 02:10:53,840
Speaker 1: Okay, now there's a few here. Let's let me go

2196
02:10:53,960 --> 02:10:59,840
back to where I missed a bunch of these. Well,

2197
02:11:00,119 --> 02:11:07,920
a whole much Kung Powell for ten dollars? Why was

2198
02:11:07,960 --> 02:11:12,600
the virgin Mary necessary? Could God create recreate without her? Sure?

2199
02:11:13,319 --> 02:11:18,760
But God always chooses to use and have humans participate

2200
02:11:18,920 --> 02:11:23,439
with him in redemption. God just wanted to do it

2201
02:11:23,520 --> 02:11:26,439
that way because again, like I said before, creation occurred

2202
02:11:26,479 --> 02:11:29,199
out of the goodness of God, not because God needed

2203
02:11:29,840 --> 02:11:32,199
or had lack. I mean, this is precisely one of

2204
02:11:32,199 --> 02:11:35,439
the reasons why we don't have a bare, strict monotheism

2205
02:11:35,560 --> 02:11:41,199
of a self existent person from all eternity. God always

2206
02:11:41,359 --> 02:11:45,600
had a over ever flowing, overflowing love from the Father

2207
02:11:46,239 --> 02:11:49,159
to the Son and in the Spirit. So there is

2208
02:11:49,319 --> 02:11:54,520
that triadic love and communion from all eternity. And so

2209
02:11:54,680 --> 02:11:58,000
God didn't create the world as a reflection of himself

2210
02:11:58,079 --> 02:12:01,039
because he was lonely or because he needed some way

2211
02:12:01,079 --> 02:12:04,359
to be Lord. He was always Lord right, the Father

2212
02:12:04,680 --> 02:12:07,560
was always Lord, He was always the cause in Arka,

2213
02:12:07,920 --> 02:12:10,760
and always had the Son. So there was always that

2214
02:12:10,880 --> 02:12:14,680
perfect triadic relationship in the creation of the world. Therefore,

2215
02:12:14,800 --> 02:12:17,640
is not out of necessity. It's not an emanation. It's

2216
02:12:17,680 --> 02:12:21,720
not a determined thing on the basis of eternal forms

2217
02:12:21,760 --> 02:12:24,039
in the essence of God or Platonism or anything like that.

2218
02:12:24,560 --> 02:12:27,720
It's purely out of goodwill. This is what makes Christianity

2219
02:12:27,880 --> 02:12:32,439
unique is that the creative world is a willful expression

2220
02:12:32,600 --> 02:12:36,039
of God's love and goodness in being and not any

2221
02:12:36,119 --> 02:12:40,119
kind of necessary emanation or determined process. That's the chief

2222
02:12:40,239 --> 02:12:44,359
argument that Maximus makes against Origin and Plotinus and all

2223
02:12:44,399 --> 02:12:48,279
these weirdos and creeps is that, no, it's not a

2224
02:12:48,439 --> 02:12:52,920
necessary emanation or creation, is not an eternal generation from

2225
02:12:52,960 --> 02:12:56,960
God or anything like that like the Platonist thought. So

2226
02:12:57,239 --> 02:13:01,600
that's what makes it unique. And therefore when we read

2227
02:13:01,680 --> 02:13:04,880
Genesis and we see that Mary, when we see that

2228
02:13:04,960 --> 02:13:07,319
Eve is the mother of all, right, now we start

2229
02:13:07,359 --> 02:13:10,159
to see how Mary is the new Eve. You see,

2230
02:13:10,359 --> 02:13:13,760
it's a common comparison. Mary is the ark of the covenant.

2231
02:13:13,880 --> 02:13:17,439
Mary is the answer to the destruction that Eve brought.

2232
02:13:18,159 --> 02:13:22,359
So that's why Mary was necessary in a secondary sense,

2233
02:13:22,479 --> 02:13:25,680
not that God needed her, but that He chose and

2234
02:13:25,800 --> 02:13:30,520
willed to have humans or someone like Mary be necessary

2235
02:13:30,640 --> 02:13:34,800
in the economy of salvation. So that's the answer to

2236
02:13:34,800 --> 02:13:38,640
that question. But thank you for that, Kung Paw Bounteous.

2237
02:13:39,319 --> 02:13:39,680
Go ahead.

2238
02:13:40,640 --> 02:13:40,800
Speaker 2: Yeah.

2239
02:13:41,840 --> 02:13:44,880
Speaker 6: I think a lot of people sometimes, especially Muslim critics,

2240
02:13:45,000 --> 02:13:51,720
forget the whole concept of like divine drama and stuff

2241
02:13:51,800 --> 02:13:55,560
like that, Like how do you talk about and Athanasius

2242
02:13:55,560 --> 02:13:57,560
talks about how the crucifixion.

2243
02:13:56,960 --> 02:13:59,720
Speaker 2: Had to be a particularly kind of violent and kind

2244
02:13:59,720 --> 02:14:01,960
of obvious.

2245
02:14:01,680 --> 02:14:04,319
Speaker 6: Things so that people would know about it and the

2246
02:14:04,439 --> 02:14:08,079
economy and you know, like the divine counsel and stuff

2247
02:14:08,159 --> 02:14:11,520
like that. Like God doesn't need to consult with his

2248
02:14:12,039 --> 02:14:15,960
divine counsel to make decisions, but he does. And it's

2249
02:14:16,399 --> 02:14:20,199
like a divine a divine fittingness to all these things,

2250
02:14:20,279 --> 02:14:23,760
to this order because it's pedagogical as well for us,

2251
02:14:24,640 --> 02:14:25,680
it teaches us things.

2252
02:14:26,359 --> 02:14:30,800
Speaker 1: Yeah, I mean, God didn't need Abraham to intercede for Sodom.

2253
02:14:31,000 --> 02:14:33,399
Orrybody knew that he would, and he chose to operate

2254
02:14:33,520 --> 02:14:38,800
through Yeah, creaturely co operators. As paulses, we are God's

2255
02:14:38,880 --> 02:14:42,199
co workers. God didn't need Amos to intercede, but he

2256
02:14:42,439 --> 02:14:43,720
wanted Amos to intercede.

2257
02:14:44,840 --> 02:14:46,239
Speaker 2: Ythan says, well, that too.

2258
02:14:46,359 --> 02:14:49,560
Speaker 6: He's like God didn't need like he didn't need Moses

2259
02:14:49,640 --> 02:14:52,640
to raise his staff to split the sea or anything. Like,

2260
02:14:52,720 --> 02:14:57,399
he didn't need all these human specific human involvements.

2261
02:14:56,880 --> 02:14:58,920
Speaker 2: To a lot of the things he does well.

2262
02:14:58,960 --> 02:15:02,600
Speaker 1: The incarnation is thus a affirmation of the goodness of

2263
02:15:02,720 --> 02:15:05,960
creation and God's will to use the created order, because

2264
02:15:06,039 --> 02:15:08,800
it was always his intent to become incarnate and always

2265
02:15:08,840 --> 02:15:11,760
his intent to use the created order. That's key. Creation

2266
02:15:11,920 --> 02:15:17,920
itself presupposes incarnation. That's what's unique to orthodoxy. Let's see

2267
02:15:18,079 --> 02:15:22,680
Bounteous for five dollars, could God create? Wait, Noah, that's

2268
02:15:22,680 --> 02:15:25,399
the one I already answered, peak brain capacity a dollar.

2269
02:15:25,520 --> 02:15:29,680
If the world we are living in is not operating

2270
02:15:29,720 --> 02:15:32,000
the same way as described in Genesis because of the fault,

2271
02:15:32,079 --> 02:15:36,000
then evolutionary theory could be regarded as balanced science on

2272
02:15:36,119 --> 02:15:38,720
the basis of pure empirical evidence. Well, they're necess saying

2273
02:15:38,720 --> 02:15:42,680
it is pure empirical science or evidence. All data is

2274
02:15:42,800 --> 02:15:46,720
theory laden, All empirical experience is theory laden. Go listen

2275
02:15:46,760 --> 02:15:49,079
to this stef On volume debate. I outline the four

2276
02:15:49,119 --> 02:15:52,800
problems of basic empiricism that nobody in an empiricist tradition

2277
02:15:52,920 --> 02:15:57,119
can answer. Their basic well known classical problems of raw

2278
02:15:57,439 --> 02:16:01,199
not eve empiricism that have been asked for centuries now

2279
02:16:01,239 --> 02:16:05,800
ever since David Hume Willard sellers up in the present day,

2280
02:16:06,199 --> 02:16:08,920
William ben Orman Kwine, those are the basic problems that

2281
02:16:08,960 --> 02:16:11,960
empiricism can't answer. So you're wrong about the idea that

2282
02:16:12,039 --> 02:16:15,319
there is such a thing as a pure empirical data

2283
02:16:15,399 --> 02:16:16,840
or science or whatever. I can't see the rest of

2284
02:16:16,880 --> 02:16:19,520
your question, but that looks like where you're going. And

2285
02:16:19,760 --> 02:16:23,600
if you mean by evolution adaptation, nobody denies that species

2286
02:16:23,680 --> 02:16:26,479
adapt But if you mean by evolution this grand theory

2287
02:16:27,079 --> 02:16:30,920
of death being natural and AONs of time to produce

2288
02:16:31,119 --> 02:16:33,559
Adam and Eve out of Kate, Geico, Caveman or some

2289
02:16:33,639 --> 02:16:41,239
of this nonsense, then no, be chez wait searching one dollar. Okay,

2290
02:16:41,360 --> 02:16:44,319
I read the scripture, but I can't overcome my skepticism.

2291
02:16:44,440 --> 02:16:45,840
Well that was pretty quick too. That was like an

2292
02:16:45,879 --> 02:16:48,559
hour ago. So you you read the Bible in an

2293
02:16:48,600 --> 02:16:52,559
hour again, So it could be just a book. Well,

2294
02:16:53,000 --> 02:16:56,319
how can just the book predict the birth of Christ?

2295
02:16:56,440 --> 02:16:59,440
How can just the book predict all of these messianics

2296
02:16:59,479 --> 02:17:04,399
specific that one guy comes and fulfills. How is that

2297
02:17:04,760 --> 02:17:09,680
just the book? When you pray, does God speak to you? No,

2298
02:17:09,879 --> 02:17:11,600
it's again, it's not audible voices.

2299
02:17:11,760 --> 02:17:11,879
Speaker 2: Right.

2300
02:17:12,000 --> 02:17:14,920
Speaker 1: So Jesus answers this very question by saying, go to

2301
02:17:15,000 --> 02:17:17,760
the scriptures and study them, and you will see that

2302
02:17:18,040 --> 02:17:20,319
they have all kinds of things that show them to

2303
02:17:20,440 --> 02:17:25,399
be miraculous. Right, they predict the coming of them Assiah.

2304
02:17:25,440 --> 02:17:28,559
Look up the messianic prophecies start there, and then you'll

2305
02:17:28,600 --> 02:17:31,399
start to see that the book itself is of divine inspiration.

2306
02:17:31,559 --> 02:17:36,479
That's the visible proof argument that Jesus uses. Right, he

2307
02:17:36,600 --> 02:17:40,479
has no problem just saying, look, if people rise from

2308
02:17:40,520 --> 02:17:42,760
the dead, that's not going to convince somebody. If they're

2309
02:17:42,799 --> 02:17:44,920
not going to be convinced by the predictions of the

2310
02:17:45,360 --> 02:17:47,079
law and the prophets, they're not going to be convinced

2311
02:17:47,079 --> 02:17:51,479
by anything. So what I'm saying is, go and look

2312
02:17:51,520 --> 02:17:54,440
at the Messianic prophecies. I mean you responded by saying, oh, okay,

2313
02:17:54,440 --> 02:17:56,040
I went and read scriptures, but I don't see it.

2314
02:17:56,879 --> 02:17:58,840
Do you even know what you're reading? That's what I'm saying, Like,

2315
02:17:58,879 --> 02:18:01,319
you have to understand what you're reading, right, I'm not

2316
02:18:01,440 --> 02:18:03,920
saying just look at this verse, like, read the thing

2317
02:18:04,079 --> 02:18:07,840
and understand that there are prophecies of when the Messiah

2318
02:18:07,879 --> 02:18:10,120
will come, what he will do. Right, the Book of

2319
02:18:10,200 --> 02:18:20,079
Isaiah start there, So man light is right, Lucius for

2320
02:18:20,159 --> 02:18:26,600
three dollars, what is the Orthodox position on why people

2321
02:18:26,639 --> 02:18:30,120
are born with incapacitating illnesses? Well, because of the fall.

2322
02:18:30,440 --> 02:18:34,000
I mean all illnesses, all death, all decay, all of

2323
02:18:34,079 --> 02:18:38,399
that comes as a result of Adam's fall. I don't

2324
02:18:38,440 --> 02:18:40,600
know how how else to answer that. That's just another

2325
02:18:41,000 --> 02:18:44,319
problem of evil question, but thank you for that. Lucius

2326
02:18:44,440 --> 02:18:47,399
Militaris three fifty three. What is the Seraph and Rose

2327
02:18:47,440 --> 02:18:51,280
book on Genesis and Creation? Genesis Creation Early Man? And

2328
02:18:51,360 --> 02:18:54,239
I'm sorry it does appear to be out of print.

2329
02:18:54,719 --> 02:18:57,479
I was looking the other day at a lot of

2330
02:18:57,559 --> 02:18:59,639
different places and sites as to where it might be

2331
02:18:59,680 --> 02:19:03,479
perfect just and I couldn't find any. So I'm sorry

2332
02:19:03,600 --> 02:19:08,479
to say that that book appears to be gone. I

2333
02:19:08,600 --> 02:19:12,920
mean not gone, but I don't I mean you can't

2334
02:19:13,040 --> 02:19:16,159
get it for like under nine hundred dollars. Every place

2335
02:19:16,280 --> 02:19:18,200
has that book for sale for nine There may be

2336
02:19:18,239 --> 02:19:22,559
a PDF floating round, but physical copies apparently are sparse

2337
02:19:22,600 --> 02:19:25,639
because it's out of print. But maybe if you drove

2338
02:19:25,760 --> 02:19:28,159
to a monastery or a bookstore somewhere, you can find it.

2339
02:19:30,239 --> 02:19:30,559
Speaker 2: About you.

2340
02:19:30,760 --> 02:19:32,120
Speaker 1: Yes, this Creation early means.

2341
02:19:34,479 --> 02:19:35,719
Speaker 3: Oh, I think he's talking about.

2342
02:19:38,319 --> 02:19:42,120
Speaker 1: Yeah. Anyway, So I am going to continue this talk.

2343
02:19:42,159 --> 02:19:44,120
I think we'll close up the Q and A. I'm

2344
02:19:44,120 --> 02:19:47,479
gonna keep going because I did say I would do this,

2345
02:19:47,879 --> 02:19:53,479
and it is time to finally dude the Pelicon book.

2346
02:19:53,959 --> 02:19:56,239
So I'm not going to end the stream. I think

2347
02:19:56,280 --> 02:19:59,159
we'll close up the Q and A part and then

2348
02:19:59,200 --> 02:20:02,040
if anybody wants to continue with me here on YouTube,

2349
02:20:02,040 --> 02:20:05,239
I'll just continue doing this stream. But I'm not going

2350
02:20:05,280 --> 02:20:07,040
to keep doing the Q and A part. I want

2351
02:20:07,079 --> 02:20:11,879
to get into early church the development of the Patristic

2352
02:20:11,959 --> 02:20:15,799
tradition from Pelicon's book, because I did say months ago

2353
02:20:15,799 --> 02:20:16,200
I would do.

2354
02:20:16,280 --> 02:20:17,280
Speaker 13: This, and.

2355
02:20:18,799 --> 02:20:22,040
Speaker 1: Church of Eternal Logos tonight will do our part two

2356
02:20:22,159 --> 02:20:23,760
in the next few days. Jamie and I will do

2357
02:20:23,840 --> 02:20:26,440
our part two in the next few days. And thank

2358
02:20:26,479 --> 02:20:29,440
you to all you guys on the discord for chipping in,

2359
02:20:29,639 --> 02:20:31,399
and I'll put everybody's links and whatnot.

2360
02:20:32,479 --> 02:20:34,680
Speaker 13: J before you cut off, If if I could ask,

2361
02:20:35,280 --> 02:20:37,520
did you want to maybe make an announcement with regards

2362
02:20:37,559 --> 02:20:40,920
to what is Seminin's Metropolitan Joonna has.

2363
02:20:40,879 --> 02:20:44,520
Speaker 1: Planned for the server, Uh, sure, if you want, If

2364
02:20:44,600 --> 02:20:46,879
you want to go ahead and announce it, go ahead.

2365
02:20:46,760 --> 02:20:47,639
Speaker 3: Yeah, I can just announce this.

2366
02:20:47,719 --> 02:20:52,200
Speaker 13: So we're waiting on some more information hopefully forthcoming next

2367
02:20:52,280 --> 02:20:57,040
week sometime, but his eminence, Metropolitan Joonah has offered to

2368
02:20:57,200 --> 02:21:01,399
start up a weekly ctaschtical lecture your series right here

2369
02:21:01,559 --> 02:21:05,120
on Jay's discord, so stay tuned for that. We'll make

2370
02:21:05,239 --> 02:21:10,120
some more prominent announcements as we get more information, but

2371
02:21:10,200 --> 02:21:13,000
hopefully next week we'll we'll have a set time and

2372
02:21:13,079 --> 02:21:14,559
date when all this stuff is going to happen.

2373
02:21:16,120 --> 02:21:19,559
Speaker 4: And they're reminded to everyone watching the stream, if you want,

2374
02:21:19,920 --> 02:21:21,399
please do come to the discord.

2375
02:21:21,520 --> 02:21:24,680
Speaker 2: I'll break you personally myself. We'll ask all your dumb questions.

2376
02:21:25,040 --> 02:21:26,879
Blah blah blah blah. Love all of you.

2377
02:21:27,600 --> 02:21:30,079
Speaker 4: Jay, make sure to put my Twitter down there because

2378
02:21:30,079 --> 02:21:31,280
I won that Internet cloud.

2379
02:21:31,520 --> 02:21:33,040
Speaker 1: You know, I know I will do that for all

2380
02:21:33,079 --> 02:21:33,239
of you.

2381
02:21:34,000 --> 02:21:37,879
Speaker 6: By the way, hop over to Sam Shimunt Shimonian's channel.

2382
02:21:38,040 --> 02:21:41,559
He did an interview with Craig on the Orthodox view

2383
02:21:41,559 --> 02:21:43,639
of Salvation and I listened to as much of it

2384
02:21:43,680 --> 02:21:46,280
as I could and it's actually really, really, really good.

2385
02:21:46,440 --> 02:21:50,520
Speaker 3: So go and watch it after Jay's finished.

2386
02:21:51,159 --> 02:21:54,120
Speaker 1: Yeah yeah, yeah, after guys, am I going to be

2387
02:21:54,200 --> 02:21:57,799
cutting into a lot of people's streams. Is Cotel doing one?

2388
02:21:57,879 --> 02:22:00,520
I don't know, It's okay. I mean everybody can eventually

2389
02:22:00,600 --> 02:22:03,159
watched come back and wash. Yeah, yeah, it's not a

2390
02:22:03,200 --> 02:22:05,280
big deal. How many of people watching live. But I

2391
02:22:05,360 --> 02:22:07,399
am going to cover because I've got so many notes

2392
02:22:07,479 --> 02:22:12,159
on on Pelican, I took hundreds of pages of notes,

2393
02:22:12,200 --> 02:22:13,840
and I also have hundreds of pages of notes, well

2394
02:22:13,879 --> 02:22:16,520
about a hundred pages of notes on the medieval Heresy Book,

2395
02:22:16,520 --> 02:22:16,840
which all