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Speaker 1: Hey seven thirty here fifty five CARCD Talk Station. Moving
Speaker 1: away from things political. Welcome back to the fifty five
Speaker 1: Parase Morning Show, hair Don Heinrich Toltzman to talk about
Speaker 1: this book that he actually was the editor of. I
Speaker 1: Am Innocent Statement from the Death Cell, the Gate and
Speaker 1: ze Herr Holtzmann Bill commend Morgan.
Speaker 3: Good Morgan, thank you, Brian. I. In the past, I've
Speaker 3: come on and talked about a lot of different topics
Speaker 3: relating to the German heritage, and one that I became
Speaker 3: interested in was the trial of Bruno Richard Hauptmann. And
Speaker 3: I had found by reading through the German American papers
Speaker 3: that many, especially German Americans, felt that he did not
Speaker 3: get a fair trial, that he'd been framed and reilroaded
Speaker 3: during the trial for the Lindbergh kidnapping case. And when
Speaker 3: I was in Germany and I happened to visit Hautman's
Speaker 3: home town comments in Saxony, and I found that part
Speaker 3: of his autobiography had been published in German, but it
Speaker 3: was part of a larger manuscript that he had written.
Speaker 3: And when I came back to the US, I founded
Speaker 3: at the New Jersey State Police Museum, parts were missing.
Speaker 3: The part that had published in Germany. So I translated
Speaker 3: them into English and put together the full manuscript, and
Speaker 3: I think it sheds light of the case, and I
Speaker 3: added a lot of notes to it based on my research,
Speaker 3: which I think clearly showed that he did not get
Speaker 3: a fair trial. It was really an absolute farce. And
Speaker 3: I should say too that the kidnapping that took place
Speaker 3: in nineteen thirty two, it made international news.
Speaker 1: Was the first man to cross the Atlantic in an airplane.
Speaker 1: I mean, he was a global hero.
Speaker 3: Today we take it for granted back and forth Europe,
Speaker 3: but in nineteen twenty seven he flew the first NonStop
Speaker 3: transatlantic flight and he was like John Glenn, who you know,
Speaker 3: the man in the Moon. I mean, he was famous
Speaker 3: beyond it was I mean, you're just incredible. So so
Speaker 3: the kidnapping took place in nineteen thirty two, and we'll
Speaker 3: go into some of the details. But after Haupmant was arrested,
Speaker 3: the police beat him to a pulp tried to get
Speaker 3: a confession from him, but they failed. He maintained his innocence.
Speaker 3: The police there too, from their perspective, they were under
Speaker 3: tremendous pressure. Been two and a half years after the kidnapping.
Speaker 3: They had not found anybody, and they offered money to
Speaker 3: Haupman if he would confess, They offered him and see,
Speaker 3: but he maintained his innocent. So I edited the autobiography
Speaker 3: and it gives him a posthumous opportunity to tell to
Speaker 3: tell his story. And you know why is that important? Well,
Speaker 3: it was called the crime of the century, and it
Speaker 3: was you know, even then already people questioned that the
Speaker 3: evidence was manufactured, witnesses were bribed and so on, and
Speaker 3: you know a problem for the Hautman. That's time anti
Speaker 3: German sentiment was right after World War One, anti German feeling.
Speaker 3: Hitler just came to power. So here he was a
Speaker 3: German immigrant and that made it difficult for him. There
Speaker 3: was an underlying cause against him that was against him.
Speaker 3: And also his lawyers totally incompetent. They met with him
Speaker 3: very actually very few times, and uh they were incompetent.
Speaker 3: Then you know, I wouldn't mention the witnesses. The witnesses
Speaker 3: who testified him against him. One of the lead one
Speaker 3: was John Condon and in a police lineup and then
Speaker 3: in a meeting with Hautman for an hour, he denied
Speaker 3: that Hautmant was the man he had spoken with when
Speaker 3: ransom money was transferred.
Speaker 1: And I was going to ask you specifically about doctor
Speaker 1: John Condon described as a key witness as the person
Speaker 1: who acted as a mediator between Lindberg, who was the
Speaker 1: alleged between Lindberg and the kidnappers. So Charles Lindberg still around,
Speaker 1: he wants his son back. The kidnappers obviously, I guess
Speaker 1: want their their money. They're they're they're there, they ransom demand.
Speaker 1: How did this Condon guy end up being the liaison
Speaker 1: between the kidnappers and the Lindberg family.
Speaker 3: He's really a strange person in the New York area.
Speaker 3: He read about it. He contacted Lindbergh and said, could
Speaker 3: I put a note in the paper asking the kidnapper
Speaker 3: or kidnappers to contact me and I will act as
Speaker 3: a mediator. And so he came out of nowhere. Was
Speaker 3: he himself involved in the kidnapping, that is a question,
Speaker 3: but he popped up into the case totally an unknown factor.
Speaker 3: And then he met on two occasions with a person
Speaker 3: to transmit ransom money to him, and he spoke with
Speaker 3: it with that person, and later on then he met
Speaker 3: with Hautmann in jail, but he denied that that was
Speaker 3: the person he had spoken with, But then on the
Speaker 3: during the trial he said he was a person.
Speaker 1: Oh, change your heart there, No, that's not the guy. Yes,
Speaker 1: it is the guy. There's a red flag. Harr Holtzman.
Speaker 1: Let's pause. We'll bring you back to talk about some
Speaker 1: more of the interesting details of this case. Seven point
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Speaker 1: It's seven forty fifty five KRCD talk station Broent Thomas
Speaker 1: with Don Henry Toltzman with a really fascinating story. He's
Speaker 1: the editor of the book. We're talking about I Am Innocent,
Speaker 1: A statement from the death cell. We're talking about the
Speaker 1: alleged killer of Charles Lindberg Junior, the son of the
Speaker 1: great Charles Lindberg, first person to fly across the Atlantic,
Speaker 1: A real, genuine, true world global hero. A picture on
Speaker 1: the front of all the newspapers around the globe. For
Speaker 1: a long period of time. They're just the very famous
Speaker 1: man he was. So of course his son being kidnapped
Speaker 1: and ultimately murdered drew the attention of the American people.
Speaker 1: And this guy, the person who was convicted, Bruno Richard
Speaker 1: how wrote a book in German and that's what Harr
Speaker 1: Toltzman has uh has translated into English, so it's his words.
Speaker 1: But also the commentaries were learning from Don Toltzman about
Speaker 1: why this was probably a total farce, this trial. And
Speaker 1: as I read your notes, Don Man, this guy was
Speaker 1: he was railroaded.
Speaker 3: Oh, absolutely, he was completely railroaded. And I said also
Speaker 3: earlier he had been severely beaten, almost beaten to death,
Speaker 3: and attempted to be bribed. And the witnesses were, uh,
Speaker 3: Condon was completely in the main witness was unreliable. Other
Speaker 3: witnesses one said he had seen Houtmann near the Lindbergh Home,
Speaker 3: but he was partially blind in one eye.
Speaker 1: Reasonable.
Speaker 3: Another witness was paid for by his testimony by the police.
Speaker 3: And another witness said they had seen him, you know,
Speaker 3: the Lindbergh Home in a green car, but Helpman had
Speaker 3: a blue car. Now, there were other witnesses that said
Speaker 3: Hotman testified that he had picked up his wife, as
Speaker 3: per usual, from a bakery in New York. There were
Speaker 3: several testified he was there. They were completely blown away
Speaker 3: and ignored. And so the whole thing about the witnesses
Speaker 3: was absurd. And I think maybe you, as a lawyer
Speaker 3: could understand that readily.
Speaker 1: Yeah.
Speaker 3: And the ransom notes another thing. They said that the
Speaker 3: so called experts said that he had written them. Well,
Speaker 3: the police told him to exactly copy the ransom notes.
Speaker 3: He was supposed to exactly meet him a whole day,
Speaker 3: night and day to copy them looked exactly like the
Speaker 3: ransom notes. Then they had the so called experts say,
Speaker 3: look what he wrote the same as the ransom notes,
Speaker 3: but that.
Speaker 1: He did what he was instructed to do, which was
Speaker 1: mimic the handwriting in the ransom notes rather than penned
Speaker 1: in his own hand. Yes, oh that's insane. Now, you know,
Speaker 1: any effective lawyer would have blown these witnesses away on
Speaker 1: cross examination. You could create reasonable doubts so easily. What
Speaker 1: the hell was this? What was the deal with Edward J. Riley,
Speaker 1: his attorney.
Speaker 3: Well, the Riley was really incompetent. He spent a total
Speaker 3: of about forty minutes, only forty minutes. Most of the
Speaker 3: meetings with Hautman last at five minutes. He was often intoxicated,
Speaker 3: He was a big blow hard, and it was completely incompetent.
Speaker 3: So his lawyers were also, you know, there was an
Speaker 3: assistant lawner, but they were really incompetent. And then there
Speaker 3: was other evidence. One thing that they talked about was
Speaker 3: the wooden ladder that was used. Yeah, well, when they
Speaker 3: first searched Houtman's garage, they couldn't find they didn't find anything,
Speaker 3: But then later they found a board that they said
Speaker 3: matched the wood used on the ladder. Well, it obviously
Speaker 3: looks to have been planted there by the police. And
Speaker 3: when you looked at the ladder, it did not even
Speaker 3: reach the window of the Lindbergh home. And also it
Speaker 3: wouldn't have held somebody of haut Month's weight. I think
Speaker 3: there was a test done on and one of the
Speaker 3: lower rungs of the ladder broke. And also it was
Speaker 3: about two feet below the window of the second floor
Speaker 3: of the Lindbergh home. And so how somebody could have
Speaker 3: crawled out of the window carrying a like a thirty
Speaker 3: pound infant and get down there was incredibly you know.
Speaker 3: And also Lindberg's her Heutman's fingerprints were found nowhere, and
Speaker 3: so the whole case really looks like a farce. And
Speaker 3: also I alluded to a recent research by Lisa Pearlman
Speaker 3: who has a book called The Lindbergh Kidnapping Suspect Number One,
Speaker 3: The Man Who Got Away.
Speaker 1: And she.
Speaker 3: Convincingly argues that it was Charles Lindberg who masterminded the
Speaker 3: whole kidnapping, that he was behind it.
Speaker 1: Base of all, I don't go down too too far
Speaker 1: down that Lisa Pearlman rabbit hole. But based upon what
Speaker 1: why would Lindbergh want to have his own son kidnapped?
Speaker 3: His son had Ricketts, which a disease re lots were
Speaker 3: results in bowed legs. He was considered had mentally deficient.
Speaker 3: Lindbergh believed in eugenics and genetic superiority and purity.
Speaker 1: And he was an anti He was an anti semi too,
Speaker 1: if I recall my history correctly.
Speaker 3: It was an anti semi. He went to Nazi Germany
Speaker 3: and he received an award from the Nazi regime. He
Speaker 3: was criticized for it, but he refused to return the reward.
Speaker 3: Whereas I should say from my research, other German Americans
Speaker 3: would not accept any medal or award from Nazi Germany. Now,
Speaker 3: when they did the autopsy of the of the infant,
Speaker 3: they found that parts of it were organs had been
Speaker 3: removed surgically. And in this recent publication I mentioned it
Speaker 3: was found that Lindberg was in tough with a surgeon
Speaker 3: and it thought that the baby was operated on to
Speaker 3: investigate what was the cause of his of the Ricketts
Speaker 3: and the disease. And this related to Lindbergh's in the
Speaker 3: same belief in eugenics. He couldn't understand that he fathered
Speaker 3: a a physically diseased child.
Speaker 1: So it's in case itself.
Speaker 3: I mean, the trial was an absolute farce. It wasn't
Speaker 3: he was, and he he was browbeaten to during Houtman
Speaker 3: during the trial, wasn't given a chance to tell his story.
Speaker 3: So that's why I edited his autobiography, which he wrote
Speaker 3: in a jail cell, and to give him a chance
Speaker 3: to listen to what he had to say, because he
Speaker 3: didn't get a chance. He was mocked and browbeaten and
Speaker 3: physically beaten.
Speaker 1: And so I got a couple of questions though considering
Speaker 1: all of this damning evidence in so far as the
Speaker 1: prosecution and the in the in the prosecutorial conduct from
Speaker 1: law enforcement all the way through trial. First off, real
Speaker 1: quick here, harr Holman, uh Toltsman, how did they finger
Speaker 1: Houtman as the guy the suspect? I mean, what brought
Speaker 1: him into the field division of law enforcement in the
Speaker 1: first place? Given all this you know, exculpatory evidence that's floating.
Speaker 3: Around, the reason that he was arrested was that he
Speaker 3: uh the the ransom money that had been given to
Speaker 3: the person that Condon met at a cemetery at the
Speaker 3: serial numbers haven't copied. Well, a couple of years later
Speaker 3: than Hautmann had gone to a gas station and he
Speaker 3: had paid for a gasoline with one of the bank
Speaker 3: notes and it was what was called a silver certificate,
Speaker 3: and they were being turned in at that time, and
Speaker 3: so the serial numbers were copied and when the attendant
Speaker 3: there noticed that, and he contacted the police about it,
Speaker 3: and he had copied on the license number on Haupmann's car,
Speaker 3: and so they traced it to him and that's the
Speaker 3: way he identified it.
Speaker 1: But given years later though that it's a possibility that
Speaker 1: the actual ransom recipient had passed those notes around and
Speaker 1: he just ended up with one in his pocket.
Speaker 3: Well, that's true. And the ransom money also was turned
Speaker 3: in at various banks around the country, even in the Midwest.
Speaker 3: Three thousand dollars were turned in at a bank in
Speaker 3: New York City and none of these notes had any connection.
Speaker 1: To He wasn't there when.
Speaker 3: He said that it had been given to him to
Speaker 3: a business associate who had returned to Germany where he died.
Speaker 1: And all right, so and his.
Speaker 3: Name happened to be fish and the police mocked that
Speaker 3: story that that his round had given him when they
Speaker 3: called it a fishy story. So well, all the way
Speaker 3: around he was.
Speaker 1: He was railroad. Yeah, clearly, clearly Diehartols were out of time.
Speaker 1: It's fascinating what you've done here. And of course, obviously
Speaker 1: the extent of the wrongdoing against the defendant, who ultimately
Speaker 1: paid the ultimate price. They executed him, and apparently while
Speaker 1: he was waiting execution, they offered him lean seeing he
Speaker 1: turned it down because I'm not going to confess to
Speaker 1: a crime I didn't do. So it sounds like getting
Speaker 1: nail on his on the head here, don Heindrich Toltzman
Speaker 1: I appreciate you doing the translating and doing the commentary
Speaker 1: on the book, and I know my listeners is going
Speaker 1: to want to get it, which they can do. Got
Speaker 1: a fifty five krs dot com where Joe's got a
Speaker 1: link to the book on the page. Don It's always
Speaker 1: great talking with you, my friend. Keep up the great work.
Speaker 1: I'll look forward to having you back on. We have
Speaker 1: other German things to talk about. Seven fifty one. Right now,
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