WEBVTT 1 00:00:01.560 --> 00:00:13.240 Special Operations Cobert Spiona The Team House with your hosts 2 00:00:14.119 --> 00:00:22.920 Jack Murphy and David Park. Hey everyone, this is episode 3 00:00:23.000 --> 00:00:25.280 three and fifty eight of The Team House. I'm Jack 4 00:00:25.480 --> 00:00:29.000 here with Dave and our guest on tonight's show is 5 00:00:29.039 --> 00:00:34.560 retired General Remo Butler. Remo had a extensive career in 6 00:00:34.600 --> 00:00:38.240 special Forces. He was the first black special Forces general. 7 00:00:39.240 --> 00:00:43.000 He started off his career in conventional forces, served with 8 00:00:43.320 --> 00:00:46.960 three seven down in Panama more than once, and then 9 00:00:47.000 --> 00:00:49.920 went on to a number of different commands. Commanded the 10 00:00:49.960 --> 00:00:54.759 Special Warfare Center, the Deputy at USASAC, and commanded Special 11 00:00:54.799 --> 00:00:58.600 Operations Command South towards the end of his career. So 12 00:00:58.640 --> 00:01:00.880 there's a lot to talk about here and Remo, welcome 13 00:01:00.880 --> 00:01:01.320 to the show. 14 00:01:02.119 --> 00:01:03.280 Thanks, Jack appreciated. 15 00:01:04.599 --> 00:01:10.239 So your origin story, Remo, tell us about Egypt, Mississippi 16 00:01:10.359 --> 00:01:11.719 and growing up as a young. 17 00:01:11.560 --> 00:01:16.879 Man Egypt, Mississippi. I was born in Egypt, Mississippi. Most 18 00:01:16.879 --> 00:01:20.680 people have never heard of Egypt, Mississippi. It's about forty 19 00:01:20.719 --> 00:01:24.040 miles south of Tuffelow. When I was a young child 20 00:01:24.079 --> 00:01:27.280 growing up there, there used to be a blinking yellow light. 21 00:01:28.239 --> 00:01:30.480 And the last time I went back, that blinking yellow 22 00:01:30.560 --> 00:01:33.680 light had been replaced by four lane highway, so there's 23 00:01:33.719 --> 00:01:36.319 no sign or anything that says you're now entering Egypt. 24 00:01:36.799 --> 00:01:38.760 The only way I know where Egypt is is because 25 00:01:38.799 --> 00:01:41.280 I'm related to most of the people that live in Egypt. 26 00:01:41.040 --> 00:01:47.519 Mississippi, and so I'm picturing a small town, rural town 27 00:01:47.640 --> 00:01:48.239 in my mind. 28 00:01:48.680 --> 00:01:51.560 It's not a town, it's a rural area, a bunch 29 00:01:51.560 --> 00:01:53.879 of houses out there. I think there was a gas 30 00:01:53.879 --> 00:01:56.239 station across the street by the blinking light. 31 00:01:56.680 --> 00:01:57.319 That's all I mean. 32 00:01:57.319 --> 00:02:00.920 We're talking real, live, honest to god, small town America. 33 00:02:02.159 --> 00:02:04.239 And so it sounds like you grew up around like 34 00:02:04.239 --> 00:02:06.799 a lot of like cousins, brothers and things like that, 35 00:02:06.879 --> 00:02:08.560 running around the wilderness over there. 36 00:02:09.120 --> 00:02:10.240 Well, that's kind of true. 37 00:02:10.879 --> 00:02:13.280 I left Egypt when I was about five years old, 38 00:02:14.199 --> 00:02:16.000 and I told earlier about me and my cousin were 39 00:02:16.000 --> 00:02:18.719 talking and my wife and my son asked me about 40 00:02:18.719 --> 00:02:21.800 my past, and one of the things, one of the 41 00:02:21.879 --> 00:02:24.560 vivid memories I have is we used to have hog 42 00:02:24.639 --> 00:02:29.080 killings once a year every fall, and my grandparents had 43 00:02:29.120 --> 00:02:33.080 big farm and they had hogs, cows, pigs, everything, and 44 00:02:34.080 --> 00:02:37.439 all the families, the cousins, uncles, aunts, everybody would get 45 00:02:37.439 --> 00:02:39.919 together now I was a kid back then, so us kids, 46 00:02:40.000 --> 00:02:42.800 we used it as playtime. We just had lost our minds, 47 00:02:42.800 --> 00:02:45.759 had a great time together. And the folks went out 48 00:02:45.759 --> 00:02:49.039 and they'd kill two three big old hogs and they 49 00:02:49.080 --> 00:02:52.680 had big, huge tables and cast iron pots to clean them, 50 00:02:53.520 --> 00:02:55.800 and they would take them and cut them up butcher them, 51 00:02:56.360 --> 00:02:58.120 you know, unlike now you take it to the butcher's shop. 52 00:02:58.319 --> 00:03:03.000 They butchered themselves and put it in the smokehouse, and 53 00:03:03.039 --> 00:03:05.919 that was the meat for the winner. Wow, And you know, 54 00:03:06.000 --> 00:03:06.919 it was good. 55 00:03:07.280 --> 00:03:08.840 And I remember when I was little, I was about 56 00:03:08.840 --> 00:03:12.439 three years old, my grandmother had this butcher knife. To me, 57 00:03:12.520 --> 00:03:15.120 it looked like it was about three feet long. In reality, 58 00:03:15.159 --> 00:03:17.800 it probably was a six eight inches. And my Grandmama 59 00:03:17.800 --> 00:03:19.400 would give me that butcher knife and she'd tell me, 60 00:03:19.439 --> 00:03:22.800 she said, baby, go out to the smokehouse and cut 61 00:03:22.840 --> 00:03:25.680 Grandma a piece of lean and she would use that 62 00:03:25.759 --> 00:03:28.719 for seasoning the meat and whatever she was cooking. Well, 63 00:03:28.759 --> 00:03:30.199 I would go out there and I'd take that knife 64 00:03:30.240 --> 00:03:33.240 and I'd cut me a piece and I'd eat it. 65 00:03:33.919 --> 00:03:36.479 Then I'd cut a piece to take to her, and then, 66 00:03:36.479 --> 00:03:39.000 you know, so I really enjoyed that. It was a 67 00:03:39.039 --> 00:03:41.280 great childhood. You know, we were in the country. We 68 00:03:41.280 --> 00:03:43.439 were country folks, but it was a great childhood. 69 00:03:44.960 --> 00:03:48.000 And you were a third generation soldier, right. Tell us 70 00:03:48.039 --> 00:03:49.360 about your dad and grandpa. 71 00:03:49.840 --> 00:03:54.000 Yeah, well, in reality, my father was my stepfather, okay, 72 00:03:54.479 --> 00:03:58.400 and his father was in the military. His father was 73 00:03:58.400 --> 00:04:01.360 an E eight retired as an EA, and my father 74 00:04:01.479 --> 00:04:04.400 was in They lived in Texas and during those days 75 00:04:04.439 --> 00:04:05.400 there was not. 76 00:04:05.439 --> 00:04:06.960 Much for black people to do in Texas. 77 00:04:07.719 --> 00:04:09.719 And he told me all the stories about him washing 78 00:04:09.759 --> 00:04:12.879 dishes and working in the arena during wrestling matches and 79 00:04:12.960 --> 00:04:16.600 so forth and so on. And he was in the military, 80 00:04:16.600 --> 00:04:18.600 and he was very proud to be in the military. 81 00:04:18.759 --> 00:04:19.399 He was a medic. 82 00:04:20.240 --> 00:04:21.759 And I asked him, I said, Dad, why did you 83 00:04:21.759 --> 00:04:24.120 become a medic? He said, I always wanted to be 84 00:04:24.120 --> 00:04:28.120 a doctor, he said, but my family couldn't afford send 85 00:04:28.199 --> 00:04:30.279 me to school. So you know, I did the next 86 00:04:30.319 --> 00:04:33.240 best thing. I joined the military. And his brother, who 87 00:04:33.319 --> 00:04:36.759 was smart, joined the Air Force. And you know, he 88 00:04:37.920 --> 00:04:40.360 taught me things as the father does. You know, you 89 00:04:40.399 --> 00:04:43.519 look at your father and that's your hero. And I 90 00:04:43.600 --> 00:04:47.079 knew how hard he worked, how hard he studied, and 91 00:04:47.160 --> 00:04:50.160 he never had to give up mentality and all those 92 00:04:50.199 --> 00:04:51.600 things just kind of bled off to me. 93 00:04:53.399 --> 00:04:55.959 And so as you get older and you become a 94 00:04:56.000 --> 00:04:58.680 teenager and you're going through high school, are you already 95 00:04:58.680 --> 00:05:00.600 thinking about the military at this time point? 96 00:05:01.639 --> 00:05:07.000 No, father's thing. From my mind. Vietnam was going on, remember, Yeah, 97 00:05:07.040 --> 00:05:08.519 so military was father's thing. 98 00:05:08.519 --> 00:05:11.439 From my mind. The biggest thing that happened to me 99 00:05:11.480 --> 00:05:15.959 when I was a senior, junior or a senior. West 100 00:05:15.959 --> 00:05:19.839 Point was making all the military acatsm We're making an 101 00:05:19.839 --> 00:05:23.920 effort to be more inclusive. So they were going out 102 00:05:23.959 --> 00:05:27.480 looking for students that met all the criteria, had the grades, 103 00:05:28.000 --> 00:05:31.920 who could get in. Well, I did, and one of 104 00:05:31.920 --> 00:05:36.680 my faculty members or what do you call the mom, 105 00:05:36.879 --> 00:05:40.600 the principal or somebody from the school recommended me. So 106 00:05:40.680 --> 00:05:42.360 they came and they talked to me, and I was 107 00:05:42.399 --> 00:05:45.879 I was pretty excited about it. Okay, what point. It 108 00:05:45.920 --> 00:05:48.480 was me and two other guys, So we had all 109 00:05:48.519 --> 00:05:50.160 talked about it, and you know, we were kind of 110 00:05:50.360 --> 00:05:54.120 kind of excited. So the day I was supposed to go, 111 00:05:54.279 --> 00:05:56.040 we were supposed to go and meet a congressman from 112 00:05:56.079 --> 00:05:59.199 Kentucky because my father was stationed in Fort Campbell. We're 113 00:05:59.199 --> 00:06:01.319 supposed to meet this iressman from Kentucky and he was 114 00:06:01.319 --> 00:06:03.040 going to be the one to recommend us to go 115 00:06:03.079 --> 00:06:06.240 to West Point. Well, I got up that morning and 116 00:06:06.240 --> 00:06:08.519 put on a suit. Looked good, always looked good, but 117 00:06:08.560 --> 00:06:12.240 I looked real good this day. And my father, typical 118 00:06:12.759 --> 00:06:15.759 military guy, was up about five thirty six o'clock having 119 00:06:15.759 --> 00:06:18.759 his coffee and he said to me, he said, well, 120 00:06:18.759 --> 00:06:20.439 what are y'all dressed up for? I said, well, Dad, 121 00:06:20.480 --> 00:06:24.680 today I'm going to meet this congressman from Tennis, from Kentucky, 122 00:06:24.800 --> 00:06:28.120 and he's going to recommend me for West Point. Father 123 00:06:28.120 --> 00:06:29.720 didn't say nothing for a minute. He looked at me 124 00:06:31.000 --> 00:06:32.560 and he said, you know you're my son. I love you. 125 00:06:32.639 --> 00:06:35.560 I said, yep. He said you won't like west Point. 126 00:06:37.000 --> 00:06:39.079 I said really, He said no, he said, you're not 127 00:06:39.079 --> 00:06:40.439 the kind of guy that goes to West Point. 128 00:06:41.120 --> 00:06:42.399 Stick with regular college. 129 00:06:43.000 --> 00:06:44.560 I went to my room, man, I took the coat 130 00:06:44.600 --> 00:06:47.560 and tie off, went to school. My other two friends 131 00:06:47.600 --> 00:06:51.160 were there wearing their coats and ties and they said, hey, man, 132 00:06:51.600 --> 00:06:52.560 and I said, I'm not going. 133 00:06:53.079 --> 00:06:53.600 What do you mean? 134 00:06:54.279 --> 00:06:55.720 I said, well, you know, my father told me that 135 00:06:55.759 --> 00:06:58.000 he didn't think I was cut out for West Point. 136 00:06:58.199 --> 00:07:01.319 And they were like, oh okay, and one of them 137 00:07:01.600 --> 00:07:03.439 sided he wasn't going the other one. The only way 138 00:07:03.480 --> 00:07:05.920 he had to go to college was going to West Point, 139 00:07:06.399 --> 00:07:07.839 and he went to West Point and he became a 140 00:07:07.839 --> 00:07:11.439 West Point officer. And at the end of the day, 141 00:07:11.480 --> 00:07:13.720 I can say this, my father made the right decision 142 00:07:13.759 --> 00:07:14.120 telling me. 143 00:07:14.120 --> 00:07:17.959 That that it wouldn't have been a good fit for you. 144 00:07:18.279 --> 00:07:20.000 Yeah. Yeah, you know, back in those days they did 145 00:07:20.000 --> 00:07:20.720 a lot of hazing. 146 00:07:21.079 --> 00:07:23.959 Yeah, and I wasn't the one to sit around and 147 00:07:24.000 --> 00:07:24.279 take that. 148 00:07:25.439 --> 00:07:27.279 And so what school did you end up going to? 149 00:07:29.639 --> 00:07:34.439 I went to Austin p State University in Clarksville, Tennessee. Yeah, yeah, 150 00:07:34.480 --> 00:07:37.040 and you know, it's great and I had the privilege 151 00:07:37.040 --> 00:07:38.439 of going there, And this is one of the things 152 00:07:38.480 --> 00:07:41.279 that helped me more than anything. When I got there, 153 00:07:41.319 --> 00:07:46.040 Austin t had been integrated for two years, two years, 154 00:07:46.720 --> 00:07:49.000 and I remember when I checked in the dorm, it 155 00:07:49.079 --> 00:07:51.439 kind of amazed me. How you know, all the black guys, 156 00:07:51.439 --> 00:07:54.600 We got black roommates. And one of the guys told me, 157 00:07:54.639 --> 00:07:56.720 he said, let me tell you what they do. He said, 158 00:07:56.720 --> 00:07:59.399 when you come in the dorm, they take a pencil 159 00:08:01.279 --> 00:08:03.240 and if you're black, they take that pencil, put a 160 00:08:03.279 --> 00:08:06.920 dot by your name. So the next black person comes in, 161 00:08:06.959 --> 00:08:08.800 they look for a dot, and they put you all 162 00:08:08.800 --> 00:08:09.639 together's roommates. 163 00:08:10.480 --> 00:08:11.920 And I remember the football program. 164 00:08:11.920 --> 00:08:15.319 The coach he was adamantly against it, but you know 165 00:08:15.399 --> 00:08:18.000 he was forced, but he would only have X number 166 00:08:18.240 --> 00:08:19.800 of blacks on his team. 167 00:08:20.319 --> 00:08:22.240 And you know that lasted for a couple of years. 168 00:08:22.240 --> 00:08:26.439 And then as time passed and those old people left died, 169 00:08:26.519 --> 00:08:29.399 whatever they happened to him, the school. 170 00:08:29.079 --> 00:08:31.439 Became more normal. 171 00:08:33.120 --> 00:08:34.840 And I said it helped me more than anything in 172 00:08:34.879 --> 00:08:40.240 my career, because one minorities were a minority. We probably 173 00:08:40.279 --> 00:08:44.279 were five percent of the population when I went. So consequently, 174 00:08:44.519 --> 00:08:48.399 what do you do You meet people, You get out 175 00:08:48.399 --> 00:08:51.399 of your comfort zone, You stretch out, you meet people, 176 00:08:52.320 --> 00:08:54.600 you know. And I had to look up one time 177 00:08:54.639 --> 00:08:59.120 because I was starting to talk blackness here, and you know, 178 00:08:59.200 --> 00:09:01.080 so you had to do that. And uh, you know, 179 00:09:01.120 --> 00:09:04.200 I had some great friends, learned to drink moonshine with them, 180 00:09:04.639 --> 00:09:07.879 and I had some great things happened there. And I'll 181 00:09:07.879 --> 00:09:10.240 tell you one of the things that I was on 182 00:09:10.279 --> 00:09:13.240 the football team at Austin Field and this one guy 183 00:09:13.279 --> 00:09:16.080 came in. They called him Big Red. He said to 184 00:09:16.120 --> 00:09:17.519 me and he said, moll hi, and he said, hey, 185 00:09:18.759 --> 00:09:22.440 we going over to this house for dinner. And it 186 00:09:22.519 --> 00:09:25.960 was just a regular house, but they served dinner. They cooked. 187 00:09:25.960 --> 00:09:27.600 I forgot there's a name for it. I can't think 188 00:09:27.600 --> 00:09:30.519 of it. So we go in there and you know, 189 00:09:30.600 --> 00:09:32.600 a bunch of football players, probably about five or six 190 00:09:32.679 --> 00:09:36.000 of us. We walked in, and you know, you can 191 00:09:36.039 --> 00:09:40.120 feel the atmosphere change, and I looked around, but I 192 00:09:40.159 --> 00:09:42.240 was with, hey, you know, five white guys on my team. 193 00:09:42.279 --> 00:09:45.679 We were going to eat. So the lady or the 194 00:09:45.720 --> 00:09:49.759 owner called red over looked at him. He said something, 195 00:09:49.879 --> 00:09:52.440 and Richard, now we're leaving. 196 00:09:53.600 --> 00:09:55.080 So we all left, and I went what happened? 197 00:09:55.120 --> 00:09:57.039 He said, all right, then he didn't want you in 198 00:09:57.039 --> 00:10:01.840 there because he was black. But those guys who were 199 00:10:01.840 --> 00:10:04.519 part of the team that I was on circled around 200 00:10:04.559 --> 00:10:07.720 me and would not let that stand. And that teaches 201 00:10:07.759 --> 00:10:11.840 you a lot about people, and that affects your judgment 202 00:10:12.200 --> 00:10:16.120 on people in the future. So, like I said, it 203 00:10:16.200 --> 00:10:19.559 was a learning experience for me. And one of the 204 00:10:19.600 --> 00:10:21.360 things I tell my father, I said, you know, I said, 205 00:10:21.360 --> 00:10:23.519 a good thing about that was when I went through 206 00:10:23.639 --> 00:10:27.720 ROTC and everything at Austin p I had a lot 207 00:10:27.720 --> 00:10:30.000 of white friends, and when you come in the military, 208 00:10:30.039 --> 00:10:34.919 guess what the majority of the population was right, consequently, 209 00:10:34.919 --> 00:10:36.080 already knew how to deal with John. 210 00:10:38.759 --> 00:10:41.000 Hey, guys, it's Jack. I want to tell you guys 211 00:10:41.080 --> 00:10:45.120 about the sponsor for today's show. It's Mando. Mando makes 212 00:10:45.320 --> 00:10:50.159 a whole series of male grooming products. 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That's shop m 236 00:12:06.679 --> 00:12:10.759 A N d o dot com. Please support our show 237 00:12:10.840 --> 00:12:14.159 and tell them we sent you Smell fresher, stay dryer 238 00:12:14.480 --> 00:12:16.960 and boost your confidence from head to toe with Mando. 239 00:12:19.120 --> 00:12:21.759 So you commissioned in what was it nineteen seventy four? 240 00:12:23.000 --> 00:12:24.120 Nineteen seventy four. 241 00:12:25.759 --> 00:12:29.759 And your first assignment was South Korea Field Artillery view. 242 00:12:30.039 --> 00:12:33.240 Ye tell him Korea first and fifteen Field Artillery one O. 243 00:12:33.360 --> 00:12:36.679 Five tell us about what that first army experience was like. 244 00:12:37.399 --> 00:12:41.200 It was the worst experience of my life, no, seriously. 245 00:12:42.200 --> 00:12:44.840 I got there and it was one of those times 246 00:12:44.840 --> 00:12:46.519 when they had a bunch of new lieutenants. I think 247 00:12:46.519 --> 00:12:48.840 it was three or four new lieutenants came in for 248 00:12:48.919 --> 00:12:51.159 and they sent us to the units and I got 249 00:12:51.159 --> 00:12:55.240 put in my battery, and you know it doesn't take 250 00:12:55.279 --> 00:12:57.960 long you've all been in the military. After a while, 251 00:12:58.679 --> 00:13:02.720 everybody understands what the real pecan order is. Who's good, 252 00:13:03.000 --> 00:13:06.759 who's okay, and who's not so good. And there was 253 00:13:06.799 --> 00:13:09.000 another guy there and who happened to be a West Pointer, 254 00:13:09.559 --> 00:13:12.919 and we became great friends. And it was between me 255 00:13:12.919 --> 00:13:15.360 and him for one and two. Today i'd be one, 256 00:13:15.639 --> 00:13:19.720 tomorrow he'd be one. You know, that rivalry, but we 257 00:13:19.840 --> 00:13:22.159 enjoyed it. And then there was no animosity, and we 258 00:13:22.200 --> 00:13:25.039 had some other guys there and everybody understood who was who, 259 00:13:25.120 --> 00:13:28.480 what was what. Well, during those days we got what 260 00:13:28.519 --> 00:13:31.159 we called a sixty day. Oh we are and they've 261 00:13:31.159 --> 00:13:35.879 stopped those. So the first day there in the unit 262 00:13:36.960 --> 00:13:39.759 walked in and they're getting an IG inspection. And back 263 00:13:39.759 --> 00:13:42.720 in those days, you know, IG inspections made it or break. 264 00:13:44.159 --> 00:13:47.320 So I was in there, young, good looking, charming, and 265 00:13:47.360 --> 00:13:50.200 the IG said to the commander, he said, ah, you 266 00:13:50.240 --> 00:13:53.080 know this, this is all messed up. Your arms room 267 00:13:53.159 --> 00:13:56.720 is messed up. Commander looked at me and he said, Butler, 268 00:13:56.720 --> 00:14:00.480 their arms room is yours. Got it. When I said, 269 00:14:00.480 --> 00:14:04.879 oh security, security is bad. Key control was messed up. 270 00:14:05.879 --> 00:14:08.000 My commander looked at me and he said, the butler 271 00:14:08.320 --> 00:14:11.320 key control is yours. You know, I didn't know. 272 00:14:11.360 --> 00:14:12.159 I was clueless. 273 00:14:12.480 --> 00:14:14.120 So we went through and I think I took on 274 00:14:14.200 --> 00:14:18.879 about three or four things that they had failed. And 275 00:14:18.960 --> 00:14:20.679 I did business the only way I knew how, the 276 00:14:20.679 --> 00:14:23.279 way my father had taught me. I know, I didn't 277 00:14:23.320 --> 00:14:25.120 know what was going on. I know I didn't understand 278 00:14:25.120 --> 00:14:27.840 the military, but I'm gonna find out. So I did 279 00:14:27.919 --> 00:14:29.840 into a program. I as I say, I did a 280 00:14:29.879 --> 00:14:34.120 deep dive into security, physical security, arms, room, security. 281 00:14:34.000 --> 00:14:36.679 Maintenance, all that stuff, and I learned it. 282 00:14:37.440 --> 00:14:40.159 I learned it so well I became the de facto 283 00:14:40.240 --> 00:14:41.480 battalion expert on it. 284 00:14:42.000 --> 00:14:43.720 So units would have problems, they'd call me in. 285 00:14:44.519 --> 00:14:45.240 So it was time. 286 00:14:45.279 --> 00:14:48.559 After two or three months, we had a reinspection and. 287 00:14:48.440 --> 00:14:51.480 Out of all those things that we had failed, all 288 00:14:51.480 --> 00:14:55.320 those things we had failed, I had two minor deficiencies 289 00:14:56.720 --> 00:14:59.440 in the next one, you know, So I felt good 290 00:14:59.440 --> 00:14:59.799 about that. 291 00:15:00.000 --> 00:15:01.559 Oh, everybody's pat me on the back here, Hey, you 292 00:15:01.600 --> 00:15:02.440 know you do this? Sure that? 293 00:15:03.360 --> 00:15:08.240 And uh later sixty days come up we got Oh 294 00:15:08.279 --> 00:15:11.559 we are now. I remember, we're all new lieutenants, you know, 295 00:15:11.600 --> 00:15:14.960 we're all friends so we get out o ours in 296 00:15:14.960 --> 00:15:17.399 the orderly room and we all run out back behind 297 00:15:17.440 --> 00:15:21.519 the ority room pull out our oars. So my buddy Mark, 298 00:15:21.720 --> 00:15:23.759 the West Pointer, I pulls out his and he got 299 00:15:23.759 --> 00:15:26.240 a ninety something one ninety something whatever, but it was 300 00:15:26.279 --> 00:15:29.519 what he deserved. During that time, a couple more guys 301 00:15:29.559 --> 00:15:31.600 came out and they got what they deserved, and we 302 00:15:31.639 --> 00:15:32.960 had one guy who wasn't as good. 303 00:15:33.240 --> 00:15:33.639 He got it. 304 00:15:34.360 --> 00:15:34.759 No we are. 305 00:15:35.679 --> 00:15:36.519 I opened mine up. 306 00:15:36.919 --> 00:15:40.840 I mine was one point higher than the guy who was, 307 00:15:41.559 --> 00:15:45.200 so we just say, jacked up one point higher. So 308 00:15:45.240 --> 00:15:47.200 everybody's going out. I know this must be a mistake. 309 00:15:47.240 --> 00:15:49.000 It's got to be a mistake. But we're all lieutenants, 310 00:15:49.000 --> 00:15:52.159 you know, we don't know. So the West Point lieutenant says, hey, 311 00:15:53.159 --> 00:15:54.759 we need to talk to the XO because this is 312 00:15:54.759 --> 00:15:57.799 obviously a mistake. So he went and got with the XO, 313 00:15:57.879 --> 00:15:59.879 and the XO came over and he looked at He said, ah, 314 00:16:00.200 --> 00:16:03.440 boss made a mistake. This is a mistake. You need 315 00:16:03.480 --> 00:16:05.320 to go talk to the boss. So I grabbed my 316 00:16:05.320 --> 00:16:07.480 or and I walked in knock on the door, and 317 00:16:07.519 --> 00:16:10.679 he said n at his desk and he says, Lieutenant, 318 00:16:10.679 --> 00:16:12.000 what can I do for you. I said, sir, I'd 319 00:16:12.039 --> 00:16:14.879 like to talk about my or. He looked at me 320 00:16:14.919 --> 00:16:16.879 and he said, I want to tell you something, Lieutenant. 321 00:16:17.600 --> 00:16:19.840 I spent a lot of time working on that or 322 00:16:19.919 --> 00:16:22.240 for you. I said, well, I thank you. I appreciate that. 323 00:16:23.000 --> 00:16:27.480 But we were looking at our ors and mine is 324 00:16:27.519 --> 00:16:31.600 just one point higher than Smuck tells. What do you mean, 325 00:16:32.399 --> 00:16:33.960 I said, we were out looking at Well, let me 326 00:16:33.960 --> 00:16:37.000 tell you something, first, lieutenant. Your OER is a private 327 00:16:37.080 --> 00:16:40.759 personal thing. You don't share that with anyone that's yours. 328 00:16:40.759 --> 00:16:42.519 You don't show it to anybody. You don't share it 329 00:16:42.559 --> 00:16:46.039 with anybody. I'm like, okay, and here it comes drum 330 00:16:46.200 --> 00:16:48.399 roll And he said, and I didn't give you that 331 00:16:48.440 --> 00:16:53.480 or because you were black? And I said, where did 332 00:16:53.480 --> 00:16:54.159 that come from? 333 00:16:54.240 --> 00:16:54.600 Yeah? 334 00:16:54.679 --> 00:16:56.639 Yeah, Now remember now, I'm a second lieutenant. 335 00:16:56.639 --> 00:17:00.200 I've been in the army maybe three months. 336 00:17:00.879 --> 00:17:01.960 So I didn't know what to do. 337 00:17:02.960 --> 00:17:06.240 So there was a black captain there, and this was 338 00:17:06.240 --> 00:17:08.960 the time when black officers did not like to talk 339 00:17:09.000 --> 00:17:11.039 to younger black officers because they were afraid of what 340 00:17:11.119 --> 00:17:13.839 people would say. He called me in. He talked to me, 341 00:17:13.880 --> 00:17:15.960 said listen. He said, I knew this was going to happen. 342 00:17:16.519 --> 00:17:17.759 You know, if you had worked for me, this is 343 00:17:17.799 --> 00:17:20.400 what I would have given you. Blah blah blah. I said, okay, 344 00:17:21.119 --> 00:17:24.720 but basically I can't help you. Hey, I understood that. 345 00:17:25.119 --> 00:17:27.319 You know, he had a career. Well, there was a 346 00:17:27.359 --> 00:17:32.279 captain there, special forces captain. He was the headquarters battery commander. 347 00:17:33.079 --> 00:17:36.680 So he called me, showed it to him, we talked 348 00:17:36.680 --> 00:17:39.559 about it. Yeah. He was a great guy, very quiet, 349 00:17:39.759 --> 00:17:42.839 you know, as they say, a man amongst men. And 350 00:17:42.880 --> 00:17:46.039 he says, no, this is not right, and he says, now, 351 00:17:46.079 --> 00:17:48.119 let me tell you what you need to do. And 352 00:17:48.160 --> 00:17:49.720 he broke it down for me. Later that he said 353 00:17:49.759 --> 00:17:52.680 one and this was back in the early seventies and 354 00:17:52.720 --> 00:17:56.839 they had thing called EO Equal Opportunity. He said, you 355 00:17:56.880 --> 00:18:00.680 need the formal, formal EO complaint. That was a little concern. 356 00:18:00.720 --> 00:18:02.759 I'm like, well, how will that affect me? And he's like, well, 357 00:18:02.960 --> 00:18:04.799 he's already stuck, and tell you what else they're gonna 358 00:18:04.839 --> 00:18:07.799 do for you. So I did it, filled it out, 359 00:18:08.519 --> 00:18:11.079 and I was surprised at the number of people that 360 00:18:11.160 --> 00:18:15.839 gave me statements. Some of my commander's friends pulled me 361 00:18:15.880 --> 00:18:19.279 to the side and said, listen, you know, I hate 362 00:18:19.279 --> 00:18:21.119 that he did that. Tell you he shouldn't have did that, 363 00:18:21.559 --> 00:18:24.640 and I'll write a statement for you, okay. So I 364 00:18:24.680 --> 00:18:29.400 got all these statements from other officers, and the battalan 365 00:18:29.480 --> 00:18:31.359 commander knew who I was because I had worked for 366 00:18:31.440 --> 00:18:33.839 him and helping to get all the arms. 367 00:18:33.640 --> 00:18:35.960 Rooms and the physical security squared away from the battalion. 368 00:18:37.000 --> 00:18:41.079 So one day I'm out helicopter lands and during those 369 00:18:41.119 --> 00:18:44.400 days of helicopter landing was a big deal. So I 370 00:18:44.440 --> 00:18:46.680 got a guy came by and said, sir, the colonel 371 00:18:46.680 --> 00:18:47.279 wants to see you. 372 00:18:47.799 --> 00:18:48.240 Okay. 373 00:18:48.559 --> 00:18:50.319 So I go up and the tank commander's there with 374 00:18:50.359 --> 00:18:54.000 the PARTI commander and he says, I got this he 375 00:18:54.119 --> 00:18:56.400 O complaint and he asked me about it. So I 376 00:18:56.440 --> 00:19:01.000 told him just like I told you, and he said, well, 377 00:19:01.119 --> 00:19:04.119 I talked to several losters here and they all speak 378 00:19:04.200 --> 00:19:07.319 very highly of you and your knowledge. I said, well, 379 00:19:07.359 --> 00:19:09.799 that's good, he said, So what I'm going to do 380 00:19:10.440 --> 00:19:11.559 is I'm going to get you out of here. I'm 381 00:19:11.559 --> 00:19:13.160 going to take you down to I believe it was 382 00:19:13.400 --> 00:19:17.319 Camp Davis at that time. I said why, He said, 383 00:19:17.359 --> 00:19:20.160 I want to protect you from him. I said, well, sir, 384 00:19:20.200 --> 00:19:21.240 let me explain something to you. 385 00:19:21.319 --> 00:19:21.720 Number one. 386 00:19:21.759 --> 00:19:25.160 I don't run from anybody. It's not my nature. I said, 387 00:19:25.200 --> 00:19:26.839 I know what I've done, and I know what I 388 00:19:26.880 --> 00:19:30.480 can do. I want to stay here because I'm not 389 00:19:30.519 --> 00:19:33.759 going to run. And he looked at me, you know, 390 00:19:33.799 --> 00:19:34.759 and he gave me that look. 391 00:19:34.640 --> 00:19:35.400 Like he's dumb. 392 00:19:35.400 --> 00:19:38.000 That's a little big and you know, he said, well, 393 00:19:38.000 --> 00:19:40.279 he said, if you stay, I can't protect you. I said, 394 00:19:40.279 --> 00:19:42.720 I understand that, I said, but I'm willing to take 395 00:19:42.720 --> 00:19:45.359 that chance. And I'll tell you this is what really 396 00:19:45.400 --> 00:19:47.839 really got me the good. One of the good things 397 00:19:47.839 --> 00:19:52.440 about it. Some of my commander's friends pulled me to 398 00:19:52.480 --> 00:19:56.400 the side and said, listen, we know what happened to you, 399 00:19:57.279 --> 00:20:00.279 and he's going to try to get you back, and 400 00:20:00.319 --> 00:20:01.880 if you make a mistake, he's going to crush it. 401 00:20:02.480 --> 00:20:04.559