WEBVTT 1 00:00:00.160 --> 00:00:03.919 Want to welcome everyone back to the Pekingana Show. Gonna 2 00:00:03.960 --> 00:00:07.000 take another little break from the World Wars from the 3 00:00:07.040 --> 00:00:11.560 World War One series with Tom's seven seven seven, and 4 00:00:11.560 --> 00:00:15.000 we concentrate a little bit on a something from my 5 00:00:15.119 --> 00:00:17.440 lifetime that, I mean, you know, this might be one 6 00:00:17.440 --> 00:00:21.800 of the first political things I remember my parents talking about. Yeah, 7 00:00:21.839 --> 00:00:23.679 I mean I was real little, but I think this 8 00:00:23.800 --> 00:00:28.239 may have been it. But Watergate Richard Nixon nineteen seventy three. 9 00:00:28.719 --> 00:00:31.320 So what's up. 10 00:00:34.000 --> 00:00:37.840 The issue with Watergate? It's there's a historical aspect to it, 11 00:00:37.920 --> 00:00:41.840 like a profoundly historical aspect, as well as a political one. 12 00:00:43.560 --> 00:00:47.600 And it's particularly timely today on grounds of what's underway 13 00:00:47.640 --> 00:00:50.280 with mister Trump and what has been underway with them, 14 00:00:50.359 --> 00:00:53.719 and the degree was Trump really is the error to 15 00:00:53.759 --> 00:00:57.280 mister Nixon can't be overstated. People misunderstand when I say that, 16 00:00:57.679 --> 00:01:01.000 I'm not saying that Trump is has anything approaching the 17 00:01:01.000 --> 00:01:06.280 intellect and Nixon, or that his significance and historical capacities 18 00:01:06.359 --> 00:01:10.719 is analogous. But what he he really, he truly is 19 00:01:10.760 --> 00:01:14.640 the heir to the Silent Majority coalition, what remains of it, 20 00:01:15.799 --> 00:01:19.719 and the manner in which the deep State works I 21 00:01:19.760 --> 00:01:22.120 don't think anybody denies any more that the deep state 22 00:01:22.319 --> 00:01:26.480 is an actual feature of government. That's basically a kind 23 00:01:26.480 --> 00:01:31.280 of shorthand polemical or colloquial way of talking about I mean, 24 00:01:31.359 --> 00:01:34.000 you know, Burnham's managerial state. It shouldn't be controversial with 25 00:01:34.040 --> 00:01:40.120 people that it exists, okay, But institutions at scale, particularly 26 00:01:40.280 --> 00:01:45.920 institutions of government, they behave in predictable ways, okay. And 27 00:01:47.519 --> 00:01:49.879 the forces are rating as mister Trump as it were, 28 00:01:49.879 --> 00:01:57.120 basically identical, all right. And the reasons for his disqualification 29 00:01:58.200 --> 00:02:01.840 from public office, you know, and is his removal from office, 30 00:02:01.840 --> 00:02:06.079 and now with subsequent dis qualification by by extra legal 31 00:02:06.200 --> 00:02:09.400 and extra constitutional means, you know, it owes to the 32 00:02:09.439 --> 00:02:16.199 same phenomena, if not the same set of circumstances and conditions. Obviously, However, 33 00:02:16.400 --> 00:02:21.240 in Nixon's case, you know, we're dealing with the origins 34 00:02:21.319 --> 00:02:23.719 of of what the hostility to Nixon was, and that's 35 00:02:23.719 --> 00:02:30.360 more complicated than what may superficially appear. You know, what 36 00:02:30.520 --> 00:02:34.919 put Nixon on the map as a national political figure, 37 00:02:36.520 --> 00:02:44.360 independent of his association with Eisenhower was was the fact 38 00:02:44.360 --> 00:02:50.000 that he demanded elder Hiss be prosecuted. Okay, Elder Hiss 39 00:02:50.039 --> 00:02:53.520 has probably kind of fallen out out of you know, 40 00:02:54.240 --> 00:02:56.960 living memory. I mean probably this happened like almost a 41 00:02:57.000 --> 00:03:04.319 generation agoing now, Okay, but Elder hist was undoubtedly a 42 00:03:04.360 --> 00:03:07.319 Soviet asset that they can't be denied, even though to 43 00:03:07.319 --> 00:03:09.080 this day there was a book as recently as two 44 00:03:09.120 --> 00:03:12.520 thousand that claimed that this was some sort of elaborate 45 00:03:13.840 --> 00:03:18.439 slander of his, you know, owing to owing to some 46 00:03:18.479 --> 00:03:21.319 hostility that you know, the East Coast establishments such that 47 00:03:22.479 --> 00:03:25.360 you know, it existed mid century, you know, and it 48 00:03:25.400 --> 00:03:28.280 was profoundly powerful. And still that's another thing that can't 49 00:03:28.319 --> 00:03:31.159 be overstated. And what we're going to get into about Nixon. 50 00:03:31.520 --> 00:03:34.960 The degree to which the local of American power, political power, 51 00:03:34.960 --> 00:03:37.319 and financial power, the degree to which that was concentrated 52 00:03:37.319 --> 00:03:40.719 on the East Coast, they can't be overstated. As recently 53 00:03:40.759 --> 00:03:45.280 as the seventies and eighties, you the kind of the 54 00:03:45.360 --> 00:03:48.840 kind of what remained of the old ruling cast, you know, 55 00:03:48.919 --> 00:03:51.439 kind of looked looked with disdain, you know at the 56 00:03:51.439 --> 00:03:55.159 Midwest and the West Coast is is not really in 57 00:03:55.199 --> 00:04:01.080 the game politically, and as you know, not packing not 58 00:04:01.120 --> 00:04:05.800 having the pedigree to challenge for public office. Okay, and 59 00:04:05.960 --> 00:04:07.919 to that the fact that somebody like Nixon was was 60 00:04:07.919 --> 00:04:11.360 totally at odds with with their values, at least in 61 00:04:11.439 --> 00:04:14.719 terms of the coalition that that he came to lead. 62 00:04:14.960 --> 00:04:17.839 You know, when you have a you have this situation 63 00:04:18.000 --> 00:04:23.959 has developed with Watergate. But in the case of Hiss himself, 64 00:04:26.319 --> 00:04:33.639 you know, like I said, he uh his he was uh, 65 00:04:33.800 --> 00:04:35.720 he was he was truly like American gentry. He was 66 00:04:35.720 --> 00:04:40.279 one of five children. Both parents came from these sort 67 00:04:40.319 --> 00:04:44.120 of form of these truly aristocratic Baltimore families who could 68 00:04:44.120 --> 00:04:51.480 trace their roots to the mid eighteenth century. His is 69 00:04:51.480 --> 00:04:55.240 interestingly his his uh. The name was an angler, it 70 00:04:55.519 --> 00:05:00.879 was it was an anglicization of Hess. His sounded more anglophone. 71 00:05:01.600 --> 00:05:05.439 His paternal great great grandfather had emigrated from Germany. And 72 00:05:05.480 --> 00:05:10.199 I believe that was his only like non non anglophone ancestor, which, 73 00:05:10.240 --> 00:05:13.360 of course, you know, when those circles like was uh 74 00:05:13.800 --> 00:05:21.680 was cosmetically problematic. Has said something of a tragic upbringing. 75 00:05:22.680 --> 00:05:26.920 His father, the family never had any money, you know, 76 00:05:26.920 --> 00:05:29.199 they lived in genteel poverty, as it were, you know, 77 00:05:29.279 --> 00:05:31.079 like a lot of people of that kind of cast 78 00:05:31.160 --> 00:05:36.439 and station did. By the by the early twentieth century, 79 00:05:36.600 --> 00:05:38.279 despite the fact that they were retained kind of like 80 00:05:38.319 --> 00:05:46.160 their social registered type, you know, credibility and political clout. 81 00:05:46.800 --> 00:05:50.759 His father, Charles his he tried a number of different 82 00:05:51.079 --> 00:05:54.160 business ventures, you know, some which fared better than others. 83 00:05:56.040 --> 00:05:59.560 He did fairly well as a UH as the head 84 00:05:59.560 --> 00:06:07.079 of a dry goods importing firm, becoming becoming a top 85 00:06:07.120 --> 00:06:14.079 executive and and majority shareholder. This came to an end 86 00:06:14.160 --> 00:06:20.000 and around nineteen oh seven has lost most of the 87 00:06:20.040 --> 00:06:25.800 family's fortune that he's so kind of diligently accrued, and 88 00:06:25.839 --> 00:06:28.519 he committed suicide by cutting his throat with a razor 89 00:06:28.600 --> 00:06:32.519 of all means, I mean, really really kind of awful stuff. 90 00:06:35.439 --> 00:06:38.759 His UH wife was now a widow, you know, with 91 00:06:38.800 --> 00:06:42.000 these five children, and she subsequently had to rely on 92 00:06:42.319 --> 00:06:45.199 you know, her family's money and basically hand out from 93 00:06:45.199 --> 00:06:48.439 people to survive. And UH Alger Hisss, who was only 94 00:06:48.480 --> 00:06:51.399 two years old at this time, presumably has made it 95 00:06:51.439 --> 00:06:53.319 had a big impact on his life, you know, being 96 00:06:53.319 --> 00:06:59.519 this guy who had this kind of outsized heritage. But 97 00:06:59.600 --> 00:07:01.600 he lived up. But he grew up you know, in 98 00:07:01.600 --> 00:07:10.000 a fag of his household, in relative poverty. Fast forward 99 00:07:10.800 --> 00:07:19.240 to UH his adult life. The UH ended up at 100 00:07:19.279 --> 00:07:22.879 Harvard Law School. It was a projy of Felix Frankfurter, 101 00:07:24.439 --> 00:07:27.120 you know, which became a kind of ingress into the 102 00:07:27.120 --> 00:07:32.000 the New Deal regime. Early on, Frankfurter had written a 103 00:07:32.839 --> 00:07:37.160 book on the Sacho and Vanzetti case. Soacho and Vanzetti, 104 00:07:37.279 --> 00:07:41.120 we're communist a Jason anarchists who were who were convicted 105 00:07:41.160 --> 00:07:45.120 of terrorism and executed in the New York Electric Share. 106 00:07:46.600 --> 00:07:47.920 They were kind of the this was kind of the 107 00:07:48.000 --> 00:07:52.040 Rosenberg case before the Rosenberg case. And Frankfurter he wrote 108 00:07:52.040 --> 00:07:56.160 an entire treaties claiming that these men were convicted unjustly 109 00:07:56.319 --> 00:07:59.519 for no particular factual reason, just kind of because and 110 00:07:59.680 --> 00:08:03.480 uh and uh, and his was kind of the what 111 00:08:03.680 --> 00:08:05.959 was kind of this like goyish prince who Frankfurt or 112 00:08:06.000 --> 00:08:10.360 king to really like. Okay, his subsequently stirred as a 113 00:08:10.399 --> 00:08:14.160 clerk to Alverer Wendelholms Junior. So he was kind of 114 00:08:14.160 --> 00:08:17.120 covering all his bases, okay, you know, with the tribe 115 00:08:17.120 --> 00:08:20.600 as well as with his own people. You know, ended 116 00:08:20.680 --> 00:08:23.519 up in this hot shot Boston law firm and later 117 00:08:23.680 --> 00:08:28.360 uh later in New York firm then known as Cotton. 118 00:08:28.759 --> 00:08:31.439 Frank Franklin, Wright and Gordon. I don't keep up with 119 00:08:31.480 --> 00:08:33.320 the East Coast silk stocking law firms. I have no 120 00:08:33.360 --> 00:08:36.360 idea what it is today, but it does still exist 121 00:08:36.399 --> 00:08:40.799 in some legacy capacity. His was a he was a 122 00:08:40.879 --> 00:08:45.879 radical new dealer, became a government attorney, served briefly the 123 00:08:46.000 --> 00:08:48.279 Justice Department, and he got a plumb position with the 124 00:08:48.360 --> 00:08:52.159 Night Committee, which, despite the presence of people like his, 125 00:08:53.200 --> 00:08:57.639 was doing God's work. You know. They investigated war profiteering 126 00:08:58.960 --> 00:09:02.799 cost overruns and you know, the pocketing of these overruns 127 00:09:02.799 --> 00:09:06.440 by people in the arments industry and in the financial 128 00:09:06.480 --> 00:09:09.480 sector who had you know, funded these these massive out 129 00:09:09.480 --> 00:09:13.159 ways to fight World War One. And a lot of 130 00:09:13.200 --> 00:09:16.759 the for clarity, the Ny Committee was not Nora was 131 00:09:16.799 --> 00:09:21.559 Ny himself. Some some some some kind of radical. A 132 00:09:21.600 --> 00:09:24.360 lot of these people were, you know, like those who 133 00:09:24.399 --> 00:09:29.360 later became America First types, you know, but this was, uh, 134 00:09:30.200 --> 00:09:34.399 the way the way radicals left radicals obviously, I mean, 135 00:09:35.240 --> 00:09:36.960 the way they fell on the usual of World War 136 00:09:36.960 --> 00:09:39.919 One is interesting. You know, they basically towed the Soviet 137 00:09:40.000 --> 00:09:43.879 line that you know, this was an imperialist war that 138 00:09:44.240 --> 00:09:48.840 was you know, came about only to the intrigues of 139 00:09:48.879 --> 00:09:51.919 capitalists and war profiteers, and in the case of the 140 00:09:51.960 --> 00:09:55.000 Great War, as we've been covering somewhat and we'll get 141 00:09:55.039 --> 00:09:58.200 more into that, that that actually wasn't totaled too far off, 142 00:09:58.279 --> 00:10:02.799 you know. I mean, like we've talked about the uh 143 00:10:03.279 --> 00:10:08.960 the degree to which high finance quite literally had Wilson 144 00:10:09.000 --> 00:10:14.039 by the short hairs and essentially demanded the demand did 145 00:10:14.080 --> 00:10:18.679 he not allow, you know, a default on these massive 146 00:10:18.759 --> 00:10:23.039 unsecured lines of credit that had been extended to the 147 00:10:23.080 --> 00:10:26.960 British crown. The degree to which that was an essential 148 00:10:27.000 --> 00:10:29.879 approximate cause of American intervention, they really can't be overstated. 149 00:10:32.279 --> 00:10:38.799 But either as it may, during the same period his uh, 150 00:10:40.320 --> 00:10:46.840 he he defended a lot of labor organizers and adjacent 151 00:10:46.879 --> 00:10:52.879 institutions against challenges of their legitimacy, either of political nature 152 00:10:53.919 --> 00:11:01.440 or of a or or or a criminal one. He uh, 153 00:11:01.879 --> 00:11:07.679 it became very insinuated into the Agricultural Adjustment administration, which 154 00:11:07.799 --> 00:11:11.720 uh was for whatever reason, strongly connected to a lot 155 00:11:11.759 --> 00:11:16.840 of radical elements, more than a few of whom were uh, 156 00:11:17.480 --> 00:11:23.679 we're communists. I believe that oh to the outsized power 157 00:11:24.000 --> 00:11:28.320 of agribusiness in America than is now as well as 158 00:11:28.320 --> 00:11:32.559 the fact that kind of the bane, the bane of 159 00:11:32.600 --> 00:11:37.159 Marxist Leninists, you know, be them vanguardists or people who 160 00:11:37.240 --> 00:11:40.960 favored a broad front strategy with the conspicuous absence of 161 00:11:40.960 --> 00:11:46.759 of of agriculturally situated you know, people and institutions within 162 00:11:46.799 --> 00:11:53.679 their ranks. But he uh, most notably his kind of 163 00:11:53.720 --> 00:11:59.799 shining moment with the Night Committee was uh when DuPont 164 00:12:00.759 --> 00:12:03.159 Chemical or Dupon Industrial I think it was known at 165 00:12:03.159 --> 00:12:06.320 the time. He got the opportunity in nineteen thirty four 166 00:12:06.360 --> 00:12:12.279 to thirty five as an investigator and his official title 167 00:12:12.320 --> 00:12:16.799 was legal assistant to the Night Committee. But he was 168 00:12:16.840 --> 00:12:20.919 able to badger these do these big shot dupat executives 169 00:12:20.919 --> 00:12:27.120 and officials on cross examination and Bernard Baruk, a chairman 170 00:12:27.159 --> 00:12:30.360 of the War Industry's board under Wilson and a key 171 00:12:30.360 --> 00:12:33.080 and a key personage in the administration is waging of 172 00:12:33.120 --> 00:12:37.480 the war itself. He really he really dragged him over 173 00:12:37.519 --> 00:12:40.159 the raked him over the coals, as it were, and 174 00:12:40.360 --> 00:12:44.840 and just dragged him, you know, before the republic audience. 175 00:12:47.919 --> 00:12:51.360 He was rewarded and his younger brother Donald, they were 176 00:12:51.440 --> 00:12:55.279 rewarded with a posting under Cordell Hull in the State Department. 177 00:12:57.559 --> 00:12:59.960 His was the direct assistant to Assistant Secretary of State 178 00:13:00.320 --> 00:13:06.200 Francis Sire, who was Wilson's son in law incidentally and 179 00:13:06.320 --> 00:13:09.639 uh as well as special assistant to the Director of 180 00:13:09.639 --> 00:13:15.200 the Office for Far Eastern Affairs during the war years 181 00:13:15.320 --> 00:13:17.919 thirty nine to forty four. Specifically, his was an assistant 182 00:13:17.919 --> 00:13:22.879 to Stanley Hornbeck, who again was insinuated into the Far 183 00:13:22.919 --> 00:13:27.480 Eastern Affairs as a special advisor to Crodel Hall himself. 184 00:13:27.600 --> 00:13:31.440 So his was a man who was very well situated 185 00:13:32.000 --> 00:13:37.799 to impact policy at a very high level. You know, 186 00:13:37.840 --> 00:13:44.120 he wasn't some nobody. He wasn't some. He wasn't some. Uh, 187 00:13:44.440 --> 00:13:46.279 he wasn't he wasn't some. He wasn't some you know, 188 00:13:47.279 --> 00:13:52.600 uh legacy up whose family no longer going a fortune. 189 00:13:52.639 --> 00:13:54.279 So we were more of the kind of plum jobs 190 00:13:54.279 --> 00:13:56.559 that he could like afford gross reason things. I mean, 191 00:13:56.600 --> 00:14:03.840 he he had real power. Okay, those who would contest 192 00:14:03.879 --> 00:14:09.919 that light rebuttal is that as the war came to 193 00:14:09.960 --> 00:14:12.039 an end, but not only not only did his attend 194 00:14:12.080 --> 00:14:16.080 to the US State Department delegation at Yalta, you know 195 00:14:16.120 --> 00:14:20.919 where quite literally the Soviet Union was was was afforded, 196 00:14:21.039 --> 00:14:26.360 you know, half of the political map of Europe. But he, uh, 197 00:14:26.559 --> 00:14:28.120 he was. He was named director of the Office of 198 00:14:28.120 --> 00:14:33.639 Special Political Affairs in ninety forty four. This with in 199 00:14:34.279 --> 00:14:41.440 this office was specifically and purposefully organized to plan for 200 00:14:41.679 --> 00:14:45.879 post war international organizations, first among the United Nations. Okay, 201 00:14:46.440 --> 00:14:48.720 his his himself was instrumental in the drafting of the 202 00:14:48.799 --> 00:14:51.720 United Nations Charter and the negotiations that went into that. Okay, 203 00:14:53.399 --> 00:14:55.840 I don't think I need to I don't think I 204 00:14:55.879 --> 00:15:04.639 need to continue to list his accomplishments and resume to 205 00:15:04.679 --> 00:15:11.480 convey that, you know, he was somebody who had real cloud. 206 00:15:15.480 --> 00:15:21.519 Long story short, when it came to light based on 207 00:15:21.639 --> 00:15:29.440 a whole testimony that you know, hits had been a 208 00:15:29.559 --> 00:15:33.639 Soviet asset for many years, you know, and this was 209 00:15:35.679 --> 00:15:37.559 this was that arguably the zena of what came to 210 00:15:37.559 --> 00:15:40.440 be known as the McCarthy era. The fact that Nixon 211 00:15:40.799 --> 00:15:44.200 was his primary antagonist. You know. McCarthy, I believe, was 212 00:15:44.200 --> 00:15:48.799 a well intentioned individual, and people forget too. What brought 213 00:15:48.840 --> 00:15:56.039 down McCarthy was Roy Cones, uh, you know, to be 214 00:15:56.080 --> 00:16:03.759 delicate about it, his uh persuasion and his exploitation of 215 00:16:03.799 --> 00:16:06.960 his office to get special treatment for David Shine who 216 00:16:07.000 --> 00:16:09.919 if he was not actively involved in a homosexual affair 217 00:16:10.000 --> 00:16:13.159 with him, Shine was quite obviously the object of Cone's affection. 218 00:16:13.960 --> 00:16:16.480 That's what brought down McCarthy. It wasn't that McCarthy was 219 00:16:16.519 --> 00:16:21.440 going after innocent people, or it confabulated some some imaginary 220 00:16:21.559 --> 00:16:24.159 narrative of communist under the bed, or whatever the current 221 00:16:24.960 --> 00:16:30.039 claim is of court history. But regardless, even before all 222 00:16:30.080 --> 00:16:34.120 of that, McCarthy, McCarthy had a reputation as something of 223 00:16:34.159 --> 00:16:39.799 a yokel you know, he was from Wisconsin, whose representatives 224 00:16:39.840 --> 00:16:42.919 and senators didn't get a lot of respect. He was 225 00:16:42.960 --> 00:16:46.480 a notorious alcoholic. It was a lot easier to dismiss 226 00:16:46.519 --> 00:16:49.159 somebody like McCarthy than it was somebody like Nixon, okay, 227 00:16:49.240 --> 00:16:51.639 who even his enemies admitted was an obvious, you know, 228 00:16:52.039 --> 00:16:59.080 savant and you know, a consummately serious individual. And Nixon 229 00:16:59.120 --> 00:17:05.200 had studied the FBI record to the point practically of memorization. 230 00:17:05.920 --> 00:17:08.480 You know, his what he presented against his was air tight. 231 00:17:09.319 --> 00:17:13.200 And the establishment from whence his emerged never forgave Nixon, 232 00:17:14.640 --> 00:17:18.440 you know, I know, in the Oliver Stone film and things, 233 00:17:18.839 --> 00:17:20.359 which in some ways it is a very good film, 234 00:17:20.519 --> 00:17:25.519 the biopic of Nixon, Nixon kind of presented, you know, 235 00:17:26.200 --> 00:17:30.440 at the throughout the film and particularly at the height 236 00:17:30.440 --> 00:17:33.240 of Watergate and his fall from grace, as this man 237 00:17:33.319 --> 00:17:36.240 kind of you know, tormented by phantasms and seeing these 238 00:17:36.799 --> 00:17:40.960 sort of establishment antagonists, you know, in the shadows, who 239 00:17:41.000 --> 00:17:44.200 may or may not have even really existed. That's a 240 00:17:44.200 --> 00:17:48.640 complete mischaracterization. The East Coast establishment hated Nixon, you know, 241 00:17:48.680 --> 00:17:55.160 the New Dealers hated Nixon. They they hated him. They 242 00:17:55.200 --> 00:17:57.039 hated him in a way that not even people who 243 00:17:57.039 --> 00:18:00.160 suffered from trunk arrangement syndrome hate Trump, you know, like 244 00:18:00.200 --> 00:18:06.680 they This cannot be overstated. Okay, So if you want 245 00:18:06.680 --> 00:18:09.279 to understand, we're gonna we're gonna get into the career 246 00:18:09.440 --> 00:18:12.200 Nixon and and and the circumstances of water Eat in 247 00:18:12.279 --> 00:18:15.720 a minute. But this cannot be overstated, Okay, in the 248 00:18:15.759 --> 00:18:20.680 degree to which, in part the Watergate scandal was revenged 249 00:18:20.680 --> 00:18:25.640 for Elger Hiss, that must be considered. Otherwise everything subsequent 250 00:18:26.119 --> 00:18:30.640 is missing a key component of the evidentiary record and 251 00:18:31.359 --> 00:18:38.880 the causal nexus. Okay. Now, I believe also what's key 252 00:18:39.400 --> 00:18:43.160 to understanding the attack not just on Nixon, but executive 253 00:18:43.200 --> 00:18:50.079 power generally after World War Two the only historian mainstream 254 00:18:50.119 --> 00:18:52.839 his story, and I know who addresses this specifically is 255 00:18:52.880 --> 00:18:56.319 Paul Johnson, who I have mixed feelings about. He's written 256 00:18:56.359 --> 00:18:58.279 some very good He's done some very good work. He 257 00:18:58.680 --> 00:19:04.599 also tends to resort to kind of shrill, neo countage 258 00:19:04.680 --> 00:19:10.039 kind of canards, particularly discussing, you know, US foreign policy 259 00:19:10.119 --> 00:19:13.720 and things like that. And he's got a tremendous blind 260 00:19:13.759 --> 00:19:21.279 spot about why the fortune is the American right precipitously 261 00:19:21.559 --> 00:19:30.839 and totally deteriorated after Nurmer. But that had aside, he 262 00:19:30.920 --> 00:19:34.240 brings up the point of what exactly brought down Johnson, 263 00:19:34.960 --> 00:19:43.039 you know, Lyndon Daines Johnson. Now Johnson at one time 264 00:19:43.119 --> 00:19:53.079 had a very strong mandate. The Vietnam War until tet 265 00:19:53.880 --> 00:19:57.640 and we'll get into that. In the moment, too, was 266 00:19:57.680 --> 00:20:06.359 fairly popular Johnson's, uh, Johnson pursuing zealously, you know, the 267 00:20:06.400 --> 00:20:09.160 civil rights crusade and doing so in a way that 268 00:20:09.359 --> 00:20:13.519 on other on other policy initiatives would have been viewed 269 00:20:13.559 --> 00:20:18.960 probably as overreach. But because you know, the the East 270 00:20:18.960 --> 00:20:22.440 coast power center of the country as well as you 271 00:20:22.480 --> 00:20:27.160 know radicals all on Sundry who identified with those values, 272 00:20:27.519 --> 00:20:30.039 you know, they viewed it as you know, unnecessary evil, 273 00:20:30.599 --> 00:20:33.200 you know, for the chief executive, you know, to kind 274 00:20:33.200 --> 00:20:36.680 of like bypass legislative solutions and even you know this, 275 00:20:37.119 --> 00:20:40.400 and even even the machinery of the judiciary in order 276 00:20:40.440 --> 00:20:43.799 to kind of force outcomes. That's why Johnson was doing 277 00:20:43.799 --> 00:20:45.960 what he was doing in that regard. You know, Johnson 278 00:20:46.079 --> 00:20:47.680 kind of the soul of a pick. Okay, he was 279 00:20:47.720 --> 00:20:51.720 not a good man, but you know, the degree to 280 00:20:51.759 --> 00:20:55.920 which he was basically cow telling to an establishment that 281 00:20:55.960 --> 00:21:00.319 he knew had nothing but disdain for him, it's got 282 00:21:00.359 --> 00:21:04.720 to be considered. And you know Johnson, Johnson was kind 283 00:21:04.720 --> 00:21:08.319 of the consummate. Uh, They've probably never been a man 284 00:21:08.599 --> 00:21:14.160 who was more skilled at backroom dealing. And the achievement 285 00:21:14.200 --> 00:21:18.039 of consensus on a key policy initiative is across the partisan 286 00:21:18.079 --> 00:21:21.440 divide in Congress, like it's really remarkable. But Johnson was 287 00:21:21.480 --> 00:21:28.200 also a redneck Southerner, okay, and he said he said, 288 00:21:28.200 --> 00:21:32.359 and know on certain terms like literally he's quoted saying, 289 00:21:32.359 --> 00:21:34.920 I don't not believe that the nation would unite definitively 290 00:21:34.960 --> 00:21:40.640 behind any Southerner. And when asked why, he said, well, 291 00:21:40.960 --> 00:21:45.680 the metropolitan press would never permit it. Okay, what he's 292 00:21:45.799 --> 00:21:48.440 UPHI what he was euphemizing when he said, Metropolitan press, 293 00:21:49.119 --> 00:21:52.160 take from that what you will. I think people know 294 00:21:52.200 --> 00:21:55.960 the history of this country as well as some aspects 295 00:21:56.000 --> 00:21:59.079 of the present dilemma, should be able to see through 296 00:21:59.079 --> 00:22:10.640 that pretty clearly. It increasingly became a narrative in the 297 00:22:10.759 --> 00:22:17.319 national media that what Johnson was doing in Vietnam specifically 298 00:22:17.440 --> 00:22:23.319 was dangerous. Now, mind you, in living memory, there was 299 00:22:23.359 --> 00:22:30.200 the Roosevelt administration where Roosevelt had literally incarcerated Germans, Italians 300 00:22:30.200 --> 00:22:34.319 and Japanese and concentration camps. He'd shut down national media, 301 00:22:35.599 --> 00:22:40.720 absorbing all coverage and reporting on the war into the 302 00:22:40.880 --> 00:22:45.599 number and authority of the Office of War Information. He 303 00:22:45.680 --> 00:22:51.279 had people arrested without formal charges for criticizing the war effort, 304 00:22:51.400 --> 00:22:55.799 under auspices of national security exigencies like the idea that 305 00:22:57.759 --> 00:23:01.079 the idea that LBJ was somehow acting against precedent in 306 00:23:01.160 --> 00:23:07.160 time of war was preposterous and obviously two you know, 307 00:23:07.319 --> 00:23:13.680 uh Kennedy and and Johnson's predecessor of Eisenhower. You know, 308 00:23:13.720 --> 00:23:17.160 not only was Eisenhower, not only was Eisenhower the equivalent 309 00:23:17.160 --> 00:23:19.480 of a five star of which there's you know, only 310 00:23:19.519 --> 00:23:23.480 been three. He very much ran the oval office like 311 00:23:23.480 --> 00:23:26.359 a five star general, would you know. So this kind 312 00:23:26.400 --> 00:23:30.440 of sudden, this kind of sudden declaration that an imperial 313 00:23:30.480 --> 00:23:37.000 executive was afoot. That's and that's on American It was 314 00:23:37.039 --> 00:23:39.599 a it didn't make a lot of sense upon a 315 00:23:39.640 --> 00:23:49.039 superficial analysis, but there was a basic revolt against authority 316 00:23:50.359 --> 00:23:54.839 that had been brewing, and a lot of that had 317 00:23:54.880 --> 00:23:57.519 to do with Again, despite the fact that Johnson was 318 00:23:57.599 --> 00:24:03.480 very much cow towing to a minority, elite opinion with 319 00:24:03.559 --> 00:24:06.519 the Civil Rights Act and the and and all of 320 00:24:06.599 --> 00:24:09.839 sixty four and all the kind of incidental and adjacent 321 00:24:10.000 --> 00:24:18.599 efforts towards forced integration and you know, social engineering, it 322 00:24:18.960 --> 00:24:22.200 didn't matter. And the president being the country's only nationally 323 00:24:22.200 --> 00:24:29.039 elected representative and being a prime symbol of government, and 324 00:24:29.680 --> 00:24:32.960 you know, kind of the great power that's expressly coded 325 00:24:33.640 --> 00:24:40.160 into Article two as the kind of new political culture 326 00:24:40.279 --> 00:24:44.720 post nineteen thirty three, you know, ossified. 327 00:24:46.480 --> 00:24:46.519 It. 328 00:24:46.799 --> 00:24:52.400 Uh, the deep state was no longer willing to abide 329 00:24:54.680 --> 00:25:02.720 an executive who acted like a chief executive. This uh 330 00:25:03.160 --> 00:25:14.119 became more pronounced when Johnson. When Johnson resigned under under pressure. 331 00:25:14.240 --> 00:25:20.119 But you know, there was something of the Uh, there's 332 00:25:20.160 --> 00:25:22.799 something of the same treatment in Nixon and Johnson. Ironically, 333 00:25:23.039 --> 00:25:25.960 I mean even again, you know, the the Elger his 334 00:25:27.519 --> 00:25:32.319 question was an essential cause, if not the sole approximate 335 00:25:32.400 --> 00:25:35.079 cause of, you know, the hostility in Nixon by the 336 00:25:35.119 --> 00:25:38.119 national press and the deep state. But again it was 337 00:25:38.279 --> 00:25:42.200 Nixon status's outsider, you know. Ninety sixty two Nixon ran 338 00:25:42.319 --> 00:25:48.640 for governor of California, and Nixon was a Californian. And uh, 339 00:25:48.720 --> 00:25:51.319 I believe that this is why he had a very 340 00:25:51.359 --> 00:25:55.920 pacific centric, if view of Jewish strategic matters. And I 341 00:25:55.960 --> 00:25:58.839 highly recommend that not just as memoirs, but the books 342 00:25:58.839 --> 00:26:02.519 he wrote on Grand strategy in the epoch after he 343 00:26:03.599 --> 00:26:08.960 left office. It indicates a very strong understanding of the 344 00:26:09.519 --> 00:26:14.400 key strategic implications of not just military force deployments, particularly 345 00:26:14.440 --> 00:26:21.240 of a strategic nuclear category in the Far East, but 346 00:26:21.519 --> 00:26:26.799 he had an understanding of the outside power in global 347 00:26:26.799 --> 00:26:30.720 economic terms that the orient would have. And this kind 348 00:26:30.720 --> 00:26:33.480 of thing was totally alien to the East Coast establishment. 349 00:26:33.519 --> 00:26:36.720 Among other things, they looked at Nixon as like upstart, 350 00:26:36.759 --> 00:26:43.839 okie trash, punching above his weight. These East Coast reporters 351 00:26:43.880 --> 00:26:48.039 during the campaign for the nineteen sixty two governorship. They 352 00:26:48.880 --> 00:26:50.839 out now just poked fun at Nixon. They made fun 353 00:26:50.920 --> 00:26:53.160 of his clothes, They made fun of the way he talked, 354 00:26:54.519 --> 00:26:58.279 you know, they made fun of his alleged awkwardness, you know, 355 00:26:58.319 --> 00:27:02.920 and kind of lack of in our arsenal manners. That's 356 00:27:02.960 --> 00:27:12.039 the famous, the famous sound bite where Nixon says to 357 00:27:12.079 --> 00:27:15.599 the press afterwards, just think how much you're going to 358 00:27:15.599 --> 00:27:17.799 be missing you want to Nixon to kick around any more, gentlemen, 359 00:27:17.839 --> 00:27:21.400 because this is my last press conference. That was his 360 00:27:21.480 --> 00:27:24.079 concession announcement in sixty two. 361 00:27:25.359 --> 00:27:28.079 Well, did how much should this carry over from the 362 00:27:28.119 --> 00:27:29.920 nineteen sixty campaign? 363 00:27:33.079 --> 00:27:39.079 That was part of it? Definitely, But I mean he 364 00:27:39.079 --> 00:27:43.200 he his concession there. I mean, Nixon actually looked like 365 00:27:43.200 --> 00:27:46.519 a gentleman in nineteen sixty in a lot of ways, 366 00:27:46.640 --> 00:27:52.519 especially especially he never gave up till the end. But 367 00:27:53.480 --> 00:27:55.160 there was a lot of dirty pool in that election, 368 00:27:55.319 --> 00:27:58.680 and probably in absolute terms, like in real numbers terms, 369 00:27:58.680 --> 00:28:02.799 it was probably too close to all the kind of 370 00:28:02.839 --> 00:28:05.720 full the kind of full front of assault on Nixon 371 00:28:06.119 --> 00:28:11.799 by the East Coast press amidst uh that kind of 372 00:28:11.880 --> 00:28:16.240 presentation that you know, the national audience had been afforded, 373 00:28:16.799 --> 00:28:21.279 would have would have been somewhat unseemly. I make the 374 00:28:21.279 --> 00:28:23.640 point about sixty two because in a lot of ways, 375 00:28:23.640 --> 00:28:36.000 like the perverbial mask dropped what prompted Nixon's comeback. It know, 376 00:28:36.000 --> 00:28:40.279 as we've talked about, you know, the catastrophic defeat of 377 00:28:40.440 --> 00:28:45.640 very Goldwater. You know, Goldwater himself was a bizarre placeholder, 378 00:28:46.759 --> 00:28:51.240 but it wasn't just going to a lack of personages 379 00:28:52.480 --> 00:28:56.559 who could interface effectively with kind of the the era 380 00:28:56.640 --> 00:28:59.039 of new media, you know, is that like we've talked 381 00:28:59.039 --> 00:29:06.079 about Kennedy's literal eulogy to Taft and profiles and courage, 382 00:29:06.640 --> 00:29:09.240 you know, post Nuremberg, and there was no more American right. 383 00:29:10.039 --> 00:29:12.839 It was it was it was for all practical purposes, 384 00:29:12.960 --> 00:29:18.839 illegal in policy terms and and ethical and optical terms. 385 00:29:18.920 --> 00:29:21.839 It was just unthinkable, you know, to have an America 386 00:29:21.880 --> 00:29:25.359 First party. So what was the Republican Party. Well, you know, 387 00:29:25.599 --> 00:29:28.480 they got behind Ike because like who could you know, 388 00:29:28.519 --> 00:29:33.160 who could who could disdain Ike? You know, I'm speaking 389 00:29:33.200 --> 00:29:38.160 within the bounded rationale, the perception of the time, obviously, 390 00:29:40.039 --> 00:29:42.839 so they picked Goldwater. You know, again, here's this gadfly, 391 00:29:43.279 --> 00:29:47.400 here's this gadfly proto libertarian who goes around you know, 392 00:29:50.240 --> 00:29:53.720 basically like reciting manifestos about why we need to abolish 393 00:29:53.759 --> 00:29:55.640 the I R S. You know, he was. It's a 394 00:29:55.680 --> 00:29:59.519 bizarre choice, you know, but again it owed to the 395 00:29:59.599 --> 00:30:04.240 fact that there was now there was now an official 396 00:30:04.279 --> 00:30:08.680 opposition that was precluded from even acting as oh as 397 00:30:08.720 --> 00:30:19.039 an official opposition in formal terms. Of course, despite the 398 00:30:19.279 --> 00:30:27.519 hostility to despite the hostility that Johnson, You've got to 399 00:30:27.559 --> 00:30:34.359 understand that the uh, the left, radical establishment and the 400 00:30:34.359 --> 00:30:37.920 deep state, their idea was that by forcing Johnson to 401 00:30:37.920 --> 00:30:44.920 step down, that the heir apparent would be Bobby Kennedy. Okay, 402 00:30:46.480 --> 00:30:51.839 the camelot myth was still alive, and well Kennedy, believe 403 00:30:51.880 --> 00:30:55.759 it or not, he had there was actionally some crossover 404 00:30:55.799 --> 00:30:58.599 appeal with Wallace voters, and not just ethnic Irish guys. 405 00:30:59.400 --> 00:31:03.200 Because the hoy ploy don't they don't really think deeply 406 00:31:03.440 --> 00:31:06.000 in policy terms. It didn't matter that like Kennedy was 407 00:31:06.039 --> 00:31:09.480 basically this like radical you know, they he was viewed 408 00:31:09.480 --> 00:31:13.240 as kind of like this he was he was. He 409 00:31:13.279 --> 00:31:15.680 was viewed as kind of like as pugnacious, you know, 410 00:31:15.759 --> 00:31:18.319 like young, like white ethnic type guy who was like 411 00:31:18.359 --> 00:31:20.160 a man of the people. Like however, was guided that 412 00:31:20.200 --> 00:31:24.359 might have been. But the point is he was their 413 00:31:24.400 --> 00:31:30.839 ace in the hole, you know, and he was bizarrely murdered, 414 00:31:30.920 --> 00:31:35.160 you know, by Sir Hans, Sirhan, and that threw everything 415 00:31:35.160 --> 00:31:41.160 into chaos. That made lbj's vice president, Hubert Humphrey the uh, 416 00:31:41.920 --> 00:31:52.319 the front runner. And uh, he was an experienced campaigner, 417 00:31:53.400 --> 00:31:56.799 and he might have uh, you know, he experienced like 418 00:31:56.880 --> 00:32:01.960 literally all day. If LBJ had given him, you know, 419 00:32:02.000 --> 00:32:04.440 the loyal support that you know, some what are you 420 00:32:04.519 --> 00:32:08.759 had the right to expect. And in particular, had you know, 421 00:32:08.880 --> 00:32:11.720 kind of greased the skids for him to advocate withdrawal 422 00:32:11.799 --> 00:32:16.440 from Vietnam, he would have probably had a good chance. 423 00:32:16.519 --> 00:32:22.039 But Johnson was understandably better by now. And Johnson's Johnson's 424 00:32:23.240 --> 00:32:25.240 Johnson's nose, And if you listen, you can find it 425 00:32:25.240 --> 00:32:29.119 on youtubef you listen to Johnson's discussions with Senator Everett 426 00:32:29.160 --> 00:32:32.920 Dirkson from this time. It's really revealing. Johnson's basically like, 427 00:32:32.960 --> 00:32:35.200 fuck you, I'm gonna burn it down. You know, I'm 428 00:32:35.200 --> 00:32:37.839 gonna burn I'm gonna burn the proverbial house down. I 429 00:32:37.839 --> 00:32:39.640 don't care if the Republicans take over. I'd like to 430 00:32:39.640 --> 00:32:41.160 see him take over after what you did to me, 431 00:32:41.559 --> 00:32:43.799 like see you later, you know, fuck you very much. 432 00:32:46.839 --> 00:32:50.119 In addition, and you can see you can see him 433 00:32:50.160 --> 00:32:51.480 saying it just like that. 434 00:32:51.839 --> 00:32:57.480 Yeah, yeah, yeah, no, one hundred percent. And uh in 435 00:32:57.519 --> 00:33:02.759 addition at sixty eight, obviously, you know, was was Wallace's run, 436 00:33:05.279 --> 00:33:13.000 and uh, as a result, you know, uh, Nixon won 437 00:33:14.160 --> 00:33:21.319 fairly comfortably. It was, uh, Nixon got Nixon got close 438 00:33:21.400 --> 00:33:28.799 to thirty He got thirty one nixt Nixon pulled thirty 439 00:33:28.839 --> 00:33:31.599 one million, seven hundred, ten thousand and seventy votes, the 440 00:33:31.680 --> 00:33:34.799 Humphreys thirty million, eight hundred ninety thousand and fifty five. 441 00:33:36.720 --> 00:33:41.000 Wallace posted, uh, just under nine million, five hundred thousand. 442 00:33:41.359 --> 00:33:45.440 So an electoral in the electoral votes was three h 443 00:33:45.480 --> 00:33:51.680 two Nickson one end. He went home free forty six Wallas. 444 00:33:51.720 --> 00:33:56.359 The uh the so, I mean it doesn't sound like 445 00:33:56.400 --> 00:34:00.119 a huge margin, Okay, but in in actual terms, like 446 00:34:00.200 --> 00:34:02.440 Nixon's victory was, I mean, it was, it was, it was. 447 00:34:02.720 --> 00:34:07.720 It was a definite, It was a definitive statement. Okay. However, 448 00:34:09.280 --> 00:34:13.400 Wallace's spoiler campaign it meant that Nixon was a minority victor. 449 00:34:13.599 --> 00:34:17.320 In absolute terms that came out to forty three point 450 00:34:17.400 --> 00:34:20.159 four percent of the popular vote, which was the lowest 451 00:34:20.159 --> 00:34:24.960 percentage of an elected president since Wilson won the ninety 452 00:34:24.960 --> 00:34:29.119 twelve election. People forget Woodrow. Wilson ran in a four 453 00:34:29.159 --> 00:34:33.639 man race. He ran against incumbent President Willimar Taft, He 454 00:34:33.719 --> 00:34:36.679 ran against Teddy Roosevelt who was on the Progressive or 455 00:34:36.800 --> 00:34:41.519 Bullamouse Party, and he ran against Eugene depths like the 456 00:34:41.559 --> 00:34:46.800 Socialist Party. Okay, it was also there was a low 457 00:34:46.840 --> 00:34:50.039 poll count to only sixty one percent of registered voters 458 00:34:50.079 --> 00:34:56.119 turned out. So the refrain, the refrain of media became 459 00:34:56.239 --> 00:34:59.079 oh Nixon, Nixon. Only Nixon only got twenty seven percent 460 00:34:59.079 --> 00:35:01.000 of all voters. You know what kind of it mandates 461 00:35:01.039 --> 00:35:03.960 that he's not legitimate. And they bandied this over and 462 00:35:04.000 --> 00:35:06.239 over and over and over again. You know, Nixon is 463 00:35:06.239 --> 00:35:08.880 not a legitimate president. Nixon, Nixon. He didn't carry a 464 00:35:08.880 --> 00:35:11.559 single big city, you know, like Nix. Nixon's are racist, 465 00:35:11.639 --> 00:35:14.599 you know, like Nixon. These Wallace voters, you know, they 466 00:35:15.119 --> 00:35:17.320 only did what they did to like, you know, elect Nixon. 467 00:35:17.360 --> 00:35:18.760 And you know, we know what they are. You know, 468 00:35:18.840 --> 00:35:22.480 they're they're those Southern people. And we just went on 469 00:35:22.519 --> 00:35:24.559 and on and on and on and on, you know, 470 00:35:24.679 --> 00:35:28.000 like it was like I said, it was it did 471 00:35:28.000 --> 00:35:32.239 think about the think about the campaign against Trump. You know, 472 00:35:32.280 --> 00:35:35.280 this was like this was like the one point zero version, okay, 473 00:35:35.440 --> 00:35:39.239 just this constant effort to undermine the legitimacy of Nixon's 474 00:35:39.239 --> 00:35:42.519 presidency at every turn. And I said, to the applications 475 00:35:42.519 --> 00:35:45.039 of this, you know, Nixon takes the oath of office 476 00:35:45.039 --> 00:35:50.760 in nineteen sixty nine. In nineteen sixty eight, over eleven 477 00:35:50.840 --> 00:35:57.519 thousand Americans were KIA and tens of thousands wounded. You know, 478 00:35:58.119 --> 00:36:02.719 the Soviet Union was had not yet achieved parody, but 479 00:36:03.000 --> 00:36:07.079 uh it it had. It had it had a nuclear 480 00:36:07.199 --> 00:36:13.280 arsenal that could absolutely devastate Europe, the United States and 481 00:36:13.280 --> 00:36:16.880 the general war. Okay, and the technological gap was was 482 00:36:17.000 --> 00:36:23.920 rapidly closing as revery of deeper parodies. You know, relations 483 00:36:23.960 --> 00:36:28.280 between pet King and Mosquea were deteriorating, but the Communist 484 00:36:28.280 --> 00:36:32.679 block and not get fractured. I mean, uh, aiming to 485 00:36:32.760 --> 00:36:37.400 undermine a wartime president in this regard as unthinkable and 486 00:36:37.559 --> 00:36:39.639 just I mean to take it back from it to Johnson. 487 00:36:40.119 --> 00:36:43.679 When you think about Kronka going at TV and saying 488 00:36:43.719 --> 00:36:47.880 the Vietnam War was lost, you know, and and attacking 489 00:36:47.920 --> 00:36:50.960 the unwillingness the John's administration to open the decision making 490 00:36:51.039 --> 00:36:54.719 process to public scrutiny and time of war like imagine 491 00:36:54.719 --> 00:36:58.880 if imagine if in World War Two, imagine after Casserine Pass, 492 00:36:59.360 --> 00:37:02.000 you know, when when the American Expeditionary Force met the 493 00:37:02.079 --> 00:37:06.280 Wehrmacht in North Africa, like they were humiliatingly wiped out. 494 00:37:06.320 --> 00:37:09.000 Like imagine after that happened, Walter Winchel went in the 495 00:37:09.079 --> 00:37:12.079 radio and said, the war is lost. Mister Roosevelt is 496 00:37:12.079 --> 00:37:14.679 a liar, you know, like I mean you imagine that, 497 00:37:14.880 --> 00:37:17.320 like you would have been immediately arrested, that never would 498 00:37:17.320 --> 00:37:20.920 have been tolerated. You know, this, this, this is truly 499 00:37:20.960 --> 00:37:24.800 insane that this was allowed to happen. And you know, people, 500 00:37:25.440 --> 00:37:31.599 even people not ideologically inclined particularly, simply looked at it as, oh, well, 501 00:37:31.639 --> 00:37:35.119 that that's just politics as usual. You know, it's it's 502 00:37:35.199 --> 00:37:37.840 it's incredible, it's the most it was kind of the 503 00:37:37.880 --> 00:37:41.239 second Revolution in my opinion, after the nineteen thirty three 504 00:37:43.519 --> 00:37:49.880 New Deal Revolution. But because I missed this context that 505 00:37:50.119 --> 00:37:53.559 Nixon quite literally told his staff the press is the enemy. 506 00:37:54.280 --> 00:37:57.599 He was quota is saying that to Hallered him and 507 00:37:57.760 --> 00:38:01.159 I believe the news is concerned nobody in the press 508 00:38:01.199 --> 00:38:07.800 of a friend. They're all enemies the uh, you know 509 00:38:07.840 --> 00:38:13.400 that the men, as Paul Johnson relayed, the men and 510 00:38:13.480 --> 00:38:16.960 the movement that broke Linton Johnson's authority and broke his 511 00:38:17.079 --> 00:38:21.800 back in political terms in sixty eight, they turned their 512 00:38:21.840 --> 00:38:26.760 gun sights proverbically on Nixon. And on top of that, 513 00:38:26.920 --> 00:38:29.719 they had even more powerful allies because they had people 514 00:38:29.760 --> 00:38:31.880 with long memories. So we're quite literally the friends of 515 00:38:31.920 --> 00:38:33.800 alger Hits. You know. 516 00:38:35.719 --> 00:38:35.760 It. 517 00:38:36.000 --> 00:38:41.719 Uh, they'll say it became it became something of a 518 00:38:43.920 --> 00:38:45.559 understand too that agree to which this was like a 519 00:38:45.599 --> 00:38:52.400 sea change and kind of the course of American thought. 520 00:38:52.679 --> 00:38:56.800 It was an issue of first impression for the American 521 00:38:56.880 --> 00:39:00.599 media or for any other you know, kind of deep 522 00:39:00.639 --> 00:39:04.480 state actor or adjacent power based don't want to diminish 523 00:39:04.559 --> 00:39:10.559 the presidency. Like to that point, really the only opposition 524 00:39:10.639 --> 00:39:13.679 to a strong chief executive, particularly at war, had come 525 00:39:13.679 --> 00:39:17.239 from Congress and specifically the Senate, you know, like FDR 526 00:39:19.239 --> 00:39:22.000 who whateveryone thinks of him, and we certainly have nothing 527 00:39:22.039 --> 00:39:23.880 likes to say to him in these quarter about him 528 00:39:23.880 --> 00:39:27.639 in these quarters, he was highly quotable he said, the 529 00:39:27.639 --> 00:39:29.239 only way to do anything in American government is to 530 00:39:29.239 --> 00:39:31.719 bypass the Senate. And like people truckled when he said that, 531 00:39:31.760 --> 00:39:35.800 but he was being a dealy serious, you know. Uh 532 00:39:36.280 --> 00:39:40.320 Wendell Willicky, you know, who was his one time opponent, 533 00:39:40.400 --> 00:39:47.679 apparently apparently said apparently said to Roosevelt like subsequent that 534 00:39:47.760 --> 00:39:50.719 he He's like, look, okay, I understand, I quote devoted 535 00:39:50.760 --> 00:39:56.199 my life to saving America from the Senate under FDR. Obviously, 536 00:39:56.320 --> 00:40:03.800 but even Truman, the press, academia, the entire commentariat, especially 537 00:40:03.800 --> 00:40:09.679 in foreign policy matters, they were firmly behind the presidents. 538 00:40:11.039 --> 00:40:14.280 The view of Congress as being full of opportunists. He's 539 00:40:14.360 --> 00:40:17.639 kind of parasitic career is you know, like men who 540 00:40:19.039 --> 00:40:22.199 were possicly looking to obscure the reality of policy and 541 00:40:22.280 --> 00:40:26.360 favorite cheap polemic, you know, and uh to basically just 542 00:40:26.400 --> 00:40:28.840 you know, kind of like guarantee their own permanent incumbency, 543 00:40:31.199 --> 00:40:38.159 you know, the uh, the even the New Republic. This 544 00:40:38.320 --> 00:40:40.920 was in nineteen fifty three, which was you know, when 545 00:40:40.920 --> 00:40:47.320 Truman was approaching kind of isn't the dear of of 546 00:40:47.119 --> 00:40:49.960 of approval in the court of public opinion, you know, 547 00:40:49.960 --> 00:40:52.760 because the Korean War was an incredibly unpopular war, especially 548 00:40:52.760 --> 00:40:56.360 the dragon. One of the things the New Republic, uh 549 00:40:56.760 --> 00:41:01.599 was quoted saying, Oh, the gravitation and power into the 550 00:41:01.679 --> 00:41:04.280 ends of Congress at the expense of the executive is 551 00:41:04.320 --> 00:41:07.199 a phenomenon so fatuous as to be incredible if the 552 00:41:07.239 --> 00:41:11.039 facts were not so patent. That's the New Republic, you know, 553 00:41:11.199 --> 00:41:16.000 which in the fifties was dividing its time between screaming 554 00:41:16.000 --> 00:41:18.480 that everybody in America is racist and and talking about 555 00:41:18.480 --> 00:41:21.039 how great the Soviet Union is. You know what this wasn't. 556 00:41:21.360 --> 00:41:23.199 This wasn't the Wall Street Journal, and it wasn't a 557 00:41:23.199 --> 00:41:25.679 bunch of John Bircher's and it wasn't a bunch of 558 00:41:25.880 --> 00:41:29.440 you know, like dissident America firsters who you know, had 559 00:41:29.519 --> 00:41:33.159 uh had hoped to see Robert Taff become the president. 560 00:41:33.239 --> 00:41:35.320 This was this is like literally a bunch of reds 561 00:41:35.320 --> 00:41:49.639 like saying this. Eisenhower repeatedly invoked executive privilege and on 562 00:41:49.920 --> 00:41:55.679 all kinds of matters to deny information about government activities 563 00:41:56.400 --> 00:42:00.119 to the House and American Activities Committee, and uh, he 564 00:42:00.159 --> 00:42:04.960 was universally applauded by media. There was a there was 565 00:42:04.960 --> 00:42:09.000 a universal consensus that there was no right to know 566 00:42:09.079 --> 00:42:14.599 what went on in the inner councils of foreign policy 567 00:42:15.000 --> 00:42:17.719 and uh, the machinery of war and peace. You know, 568 00:42:18.000 --> 00:42:19.679 it was to take fast hole for people to think 569 00:42:19.719 --> 00:42:23.119 they had a right to know about that, you know, 570 00:42:23.199 --> 00:42:26.360 owing to the national security implications and the fact that 571 00:42:26.360 --> 00:42:28.800 this is not something that is up for debate. You know, 572 00:42:28.840 --> 00:42:32.719 you can't you can't reduce war and peace questions, particularly 573 00:42:32.760 --> 00:42:37.760 owing to the complexity of the Cold War as it were, 574 00:42:38.000 --> 00:42:42.280 you know, to to catch phrases or you know, bump 575 00:42:42.360 --> 00:42:44.239 or stereo polemic as it were. You know, like it 576 00:42:44.280 --> 00:42:47.559 was absurd to suggest that there's auld be any transparency 577 00:42:48.119 --> 00:42:52.039 on matters of national security and the decision to wage war. 578 00:42:53.920 --> 00:42:58.760 And I mean this was uh, this was this was 579 00:42:58.960 --> 00:43:02.519 you know, a decade. This was fifteen to This attended 580 00:43:02.920 --> 00:43:13.960 fifteen years before Johnson's unceremonious, de facto removal from office 581 00:43:14.039 --> 00:43:18.679 and obviously you know, the subsequent and more fervent treatment Nixon. 582 00:43:18.960 --> 00:43:20.880 So just for context, you know, like we're not talking 583 00:43:20.920 --> 00:43:29.519 about like decades here. It was really you know, Kennedy's dictum. 584 00:43:29.599 --> 00:43:32.719 Also part of this was him i think, trying to 585 00:43:32.760 --> 00:43:39.039 show a strong face contra Cruise chief. But h Kennedy 586 00:43:39.920 --> 00:43:43.280 literally stated in ninety sixty is the president alone and 587 00:43:43.360 --> 00:43:46.119 must make the major decisions on our foreign policy. And 588 00:43:49.079 --> 00:43:52.199 that was what was demanded, you know, not just not 589 00:43:52.360 --> 00:43:57.719 just by the the electorate, but also you know, the 590 00:43:57.800 --> 00:44:02.519 media establishment in and then angel security establishment. You know, 591 00:44:02.599 --> 00:44:10.760 particularly when executive decision ismm in that capacity included the 592 00:44:10.840 --> 00:44:14.280 decision to kill ten to millions of people and you know, 593 00:44:14.320 --> 00:44:15.800 a general nuclear war. 594 00:44:18.039 --> 00:44:18.440 So this. 595 00:44:20.360 --> 00:44:26.639 It wasn't nobody really talked this way about Article two 596 00:44:27.400 --> 00:44:30.920 or about the presidency itself until the Golf of Tonkin. 597 00:44:31.360 --> 00:44:33.199 And I know that people have bad feelings about the 598 00:44:33.239 --> 00:44:37.920 Golf of Tonkin, and I'm not saying they shouldn't, but 599 00:44:38.039 --> 00:44:41.280 for context, and I want to go too far fuel 600 00:44:41.320 --> 00:44:46.119 in this topic because it's highly tangential to the mean subject. 601 00:44:48.679 --> 00:44:54.519 There's always abfuscation when you're talking about the decision to 602 00:44:54.519 --> 00:44:58.760 go to war and how it's presented to the public. 603 00:44:59.480 --> 00:45:02.480 I mean, even the best of conditions as it were, 604 00:45:03.760 --> 00:45:09.519 but post Nuremberg, when it quite literally was declared that 605 00:45:10.079 --> 00:45:15.800 war as an answrument a national policy is illegal. There's 606 00:45:15.800 --> 00:45:19.480 this kind of tortured logic that was engaged in in 607 00:45:19.599 --> 00:45:23.880 executive policy circles. About what constituted to cause us belly 608 00:45:25.079 --> 00:45:28.519 and this kind of commitment to euphemizing the fact that 609 00:45:28.639 --> 00:45:33.039 war was underway at all. Everything was a police action 610 00:45:33.519 --> 00:45:38.519 or an intervention necessary to offset a communist violationist sovereignty. 611 00:45:39.400 --> 00:45:41.480 It became this kind of like literal like lawyer ball 612 00:45:41.840 --> 00:45:45.880 by which everybody in the executive chain of command tried 613 00:45:45.920 --> 00:45:50.199 to find a way to not admit that war was underway. Okay, 614 00:45:51.920 --> 00:45:56.320 the Gulba Taguan resolution has to be understood within that context, 615 00:45:56.960 --> 00:46:01.800 all right. Even that said, that was not the right 616 00:46:01.840 --> 00:46:05.480 way to proceed, and there was a collective security arrangement 617 00:46:06.440 --> 00:46:12.639 that was dedicated to the defense of South Vietnam. But 618 00:46:12.760 --> 00:46:19.159 such that it was, the decision was made to procure 619 00:46:19.199 --> 00:46:23.800 the war mandate within the parameters of this narrative. Okay, 620 00:46:25.880 --> 00:46:30.480 But that was a starting point for criticism of what 621 00:46:30.679 --> 00:46:37.719 became known not just punitively and kind of colloquial terms 622 00:46:37.719 --> 00:46:43.360 of on the op ed pages, became too loom conceptually 623 00:46:43.360 --> 00:46:49.199 in people's minds as this real and dangerous phenomena the 624 00:46:49.280 --> 00:46:53.719 Imperial executive. It was the Gulvatagan resolution and discussion around 625 00:46:53.719 --> 00:46:58.320 it that really represents the kind of see change in 626 00:46:58.639 --> 00:47:03.000 how executive authority. He was viewed okay, such that any 627 00:47:03.000 --> 00:47:06.239 one moment can be identified as the point at which 628 00:47:06.440 --> 00:47:23.599 things have changed. Now. What Nixon did to protect is 629 00:47:23.639 --> 00:47:31.360 an ascent administration. His senior White House advisors were Bob 630 00:47:31.440 --> 00:47:36.239 Haldeman and John Erlckman, both of whom are villainized to 631 00:47:36.320 --> 00:47:44.760 various degrees. Even my people should know better. Hallman, Erlckman 632 00:47:45.199 --> 00:47:49.079 and Henry Kissinger were kind of the key to the 633 00:47:49.159 --> 00:47:54.440 Knicks administration and advisory capacities. Kissinger's role in this regard 634 00:47:54.480 --> 00:47:59.679 is interesting, not just because he and Nixon were one 635 00:48:00.119 --> 00:48:05.159 my opinion on how they waged the Cold War and 636 00:48:05.599 --> 00:48:12.920 their vision for resolving it, quite literally ending it, it 637 00:48:12.920 --> 00:48:17.800 could not have come about that that that that pattern 638 00:48:17.880 --> 00:48:23.599 of conceptual variables could not have come about without the 639 00:48:23.599 --> 00:48:26.559 participation of both men. It's a It's an instance of 640 00:48:26.639 --> 00:48:30.159 kind of a shared strategic vision, the nuances of which 641 00:48:32.280 --> 00:48:34.559 were so myriad. It's rare that there could be a 642 00:48:34.559 --> 00:48:36.960 true meeting of that minds in their regard, but that 643 00:48:37.079 --> 00:48:40.960 someone explains the bond between Kissinger and Nixon. It wasn't 644 00:48:40.960 --> 00:48:45.639 a bond of friendship, but beyond that, Kissinger developed an 645 00:48:45.639 --> 00:48:50.480 outsized influence in the Nixon White House. I don't even 646 00:48:50.559 --> 00:48:53.920 mean that punitively, but I mean the reason why the 647 00:48:53.920 --> 00:49:00.679 evil Watergate Kissinger sort of joined Hollmen and Erlicman as 648 00:49:01.440 --> 00:49:03.719 in kind of the true inner circle, Like that's why 649 00:49:06.679 --> 00:49:08.360 whatever you can say to Hollerman and erlic Man, these 650 00:49:08.360 --> 00:49:12.239 guys were incredibly competent people and they were rapidly devoted 651 00:49:12.239 --> 00:49:18.159 to Nixon. That is true. Backing that up, if you 652 00:49:18.199 --> 00:49:20.239 want to think about this in football terms as like 653 00:49:20.280 --> 00:49:24.800 this the secondary of the Nixon White House Knixon speech 654 00:49:24.800 --> 00:49:29.679 writers and you know, sort of media element. It was 655 00:49:29.719 --> 00:49:34.679 William Sapphire, Pat Buchanan, Ray Price, and David Gergen and 656 00:49:34.760 --> 00:49:39.519 Lee Hubner. This was arguably the best like media speech 657 00:49:39.559 --> 00:49:44.960 writer team ever assembled until until Reagan. Okay, so I 658 00:49:44.960 --> 00:49:50.840 mean this this was a crack administration team that only 659 00:49:50.840 --> 00:49:53.800 had Nixon. Nixon and Kissinger developed the first true kind 660 00:49:53.800 --> 00:49:59.800 of clear geo strategic geopolitical strategy for America. So size 661 00:49:59.880 --> 00:50:04.480 how or left office. But one would think that this 662 00:50:04.559 --> 00:50:06.599 is kind of the ultimate pr machine, you know, like 663 00:50:06.639 --> 00:50:13.719 what could go wrong? You know Nixon? Also, I mean 664 00:50:13.719 --> 00:50:16.000 if you listened to the Nickson tapes as well as 665 00:50:16.199 --> 00:50:20.800 you know, read Kissinger's memoirs, both which I highly recommend 666 00:50:20.800 --> 00:50:30.280 to people. Nixon had a clearer view of the Vietnam War. 667 00:50:31.719 --> 00:50:34.079 He viewed it as a short term problem. He didn't 668 00:50:34.119 --> 00:50:39.840 really view it as a quagmire. The things that truly 669 00:50:39.960 --> 00:50:48.559 mattered was solidifying in NATO, solidifying specifically, you know, the 670 00:50:48.599 --> 00:50:52.199 Atlantis syst alliance with the UK, which at that time 671 00:50:52.280 --> 00:50:59.800 appeared to be in potential jeopardy, and specifically breaking pay 672 00:50:59.840 --> 00:51:03.840 case away from Moscow and fracturing, you know, kind of 673 00:51:03.880 --> 00:51:11.519 the key the key alliance structure of the Communist block, 674 00:51:13.679 --> 00:51:19.000 This idea of Vietnam the unwinnable war, that's revisionism of 675 00:51:19.000 --> 00:51:26.000 a punitive sort. Creighton Abrams, who was a brilliant combat commander, 676 00:51:26.480 --> 00:51:36.119 you know, had replaced Westmorland. The US Army had very 677 00:51:36.159 --> 00:51:41.559 much abandoned what had, you know, the kind of strategic 678 00:51:41.599 --> 00:51:49.000 hamlet orientation in favor of annihilating the People's Army of 679 00:51:49.079 --> 00:51:57.960 Vietnam to fairly great effect. Effective deployment of massive firepower 680 00:51:59.079 --> 00:52:08.440 to neutralize the andes the enemy, had the widening of 681 00:52:08.480 --> 00:52:13.960 the war to deprive the enemy of key tactical havens 682 00:52:16.199 --> 00:52:26.800 that basically unrestricted bombing in North Vietnam two prevent you know, 683 00:52:26.840 --> 00:52:33.119 effective utilization of of their own combined arms brought to bear, 684 00:52:34.760 --> 00:52:39.360 which is most exemplified by Linebacker two stopping in the 685 00:52:39.400 --> 00:52:48.280 Eastern offensive in its tracks. But you know, Nixon, Nixon, 686 00:52:48.519 --> 00:52:51.280 the idea of Nixon as this president kind of in 687 00:52:51.119 --> 00:52:56.719 the in thesane, the scenario is LBJ, you know, pouring 688 00:52:56.719 --> 00:52:59.159 over the map a Caisson, the scale model of Caisson, 689 00:53:00.119 --> 00:53:03.360 having no idea how to proceed in the war, you know, 690 00:53:03.480 --> 00:53:09.719 being kind of being kind of entrapped and and it 691 00:53:09.840 --> 00:53:17.199 duped at every opportunity, you know, by the enemy. That 692 00:53:17.199 --> 00:53:26.559 that was not the case at all. Even before a 693 00:53:26.639 --> 00:53:30.639 single shot was fired between the People's Republic of China 694 00:53:30.679 --> 00:53:36.719 and the Soviet Union, Nixon was adamant that friendly relations 695 00:53:36.719 --> 00:53:39.880 with China could be brought about by intelligent diplomacy, that 696 00:53:40.000 --> 00:53:42.320 China could be decoupled from Russia, and at the end, 697 00:53:44.559 --> 00:53:48.880 the Soviet Communist Party could be fatally undermined without a 698 00:53:48.920 --> 00:53:56.480 general war. And indeed all this came to bear, and 699 00:53:56.559 --> 00:53:58.800 in terms of the raw, in terms of the raw 700 00:53:58.960 --> 00:54:04.159 successes Nixon's administration, I folloso the things that I think 701 00:54:04.159 --> 00:54:18.880 are inarguable again well, imposing unsustainable or what would have 702 00:54:18.880 --> 00:54:23.599 been unsustainable attrition on the North Vietnamese mix. It scaled 703 00:54:24.519 --> 00:54:28.360 down the US military presence from its peak when he 704 00:54:28.400 --> 00:54:31.800 took office at just enter fire to fifty thousand men. 705 00:54:31.960 --> 00:54:37.719 The twenty four thousand spending decline from twenty five billion 706 00:54:37.760 --> 00:54:42.400 a year under Johnson when Johnson left office to less 707 00:54:42.400 --> 00:54:45.000 than three billion. A lot of this had to do 708 00:54:45.039 --> 00:54:50.079 with more intelligent allocation of resources in Southeast Asia, like 709 00:54:50.119 --> 00:54:54.199 in the Battle theater, directly military as well as infrastructural 710 00:54:54.199 --> 00:55:02.840 and ancillary. Flexible use of firepower and deployment being used 711 00:55:02.840 --> 00:55:06.719 in Cambodia in seventy lows in seventy one, and again 712 00:55:06.800 --> 00:55:14.400 too the relentless strategic bombing in North Vietnam in nineteen 713 00:55:14.400 --> 00:55:25.760 seventy two, which all of which kept kept the leadership 714 00:55:26.280 --> 00:55:30.599 Cadre and Hanoi off balance, especially as the death of 715 00:55:30.639 --> 00:55:37.599 Ho Chi Minh people forget too. Nixon zealously pursued peace 716 00:55:37.639 --> 00:55:43.880 negotiations with Hanoi. He didn't have a great deal of 717 00:55:43.880 --> 00:55:51.800 optimism that a conventional peace treaty could be achieved, you 718 00:55:51.800 --> 00:55:56.639 know where by the status quo would be unconditionally reinstated. 719 00:55:58.159 --> 00:56:02.400 But within the context of what became the sound of 720 00:56:02.440 --> 00:56:09.320 Soviets split. He realized that, you know, even before, even 721 00:56:09.320 --> 00:56:12.079 before the state visited China, even before it became apparent 722 00:56:12.320 --> 00:56:16.320 the degree to which the respective political cultures were no 723 00:56:16.360 --> 00:56:19.880 longer aligned in any meaningful way, you know, any any 724 00:56:19.960 --> 00:56:22.920 kind of guarantee from China that it would hedge against. 725 00:56:23.039 --> 00:56:26.239 You know, the Soviets client in North Vietnam was a 726 00:56:26.320 --> 00:56:36.480 victory in this regard, and it was National Security Memorandum fourteen, 727 00:56:39.519 --> 00:56:48.159 which was issued in UH on a February fourth, nineteen 728 00:56:48.239 --> 00:57:00.119 sixty nine. The UH outlined uh Nixon's view that was 729 00:57:00.159 --> 00:57:06.159 imperative to the Court China. This was backed up the 730 00:57:06.199 --> 00:57:12.960 following September, after the Son of Soviet Border War that 731 00:57:13.079 --> 00:57:24.639 brought the irrespective countries back from the brink. Nixon secretly 732 00:57:25.199 --> 00:57:30.320 communicated to A Breshnev that an event of a general 733 00:57:30.440 --> 00:57:35.840 war between the Soviet Union and China where the Soviet 734 00:57:35.920 --> 00:57:39.239 Union struck first, the United States intervened on behalf of 735 00:57:39.239 --> 00:57:43.599 the People's Republic at China. Kissinger said that this was 736 00:57:43.639 --> 00:57:45.719 the most ballsy move and I think it's in the 737 00:57:45.760 --> 00:57:53.400 most darren step but of the Knickson presidency, which it was. 738 00:57:53.559 --> 00:57:56.440 And even though Kissinger didn't say this. I guarantee you 739 00:57:56.480 --> 00:58:01.039 that Kissinger himself, you know, like leaked this, uh, the 740 00:58:01.159 --> 00:58:05.719 secret communicate to the Chinese. And I'm sure, I'm absolutely 741 00:58:05.719 --> 00:58:08.360 positive that that's one of the things that finessed the 742 00:58:08.360 --> 00:58:11.199 opening of negotiations when Nicks and a Kissenger went to visit. 743 00:58:15.000 --> 00:58:24.320 You know, it's uh. Nix had made the point at 744 00:58:24.320 --> 00:58:27.599 that time a quarter of the world's people lived in 745 00:58:27.599 --> 00:58:35.760 communists China, and whether or not they had the ability 746 00:58:35.840 --> 00:58:40.960 and the gumption and the ambition theyve bec was superpower 747 00:58:40.960 --> 00:58:44.119 in their own right, it didn't matter because if they 748 00:58:44.199 --> 00:58:50.079 could be turned against the Warsaw Pact, it would mean 749 00:58:50.079 --> 00:58:55.960 that there was an overwhelming world consensus against an enemy 750 00:58:56.000 --> 00:58:59.559 in Moscow which had purported to you know, essentially be 751 00:58:59.679 --> 00:59:01.480 the lead year of the Global South as we think 752 00:59:01.519 --> 00:59:04.880 of it today. You know, so from the top down, 753 00:59:06.039 --> 00:59:12.239 this was brilliant power of politics, sight unseen since Bismarck 754 00:59:12.480 --> 00:59:24.079 in my opinion, but was ultimately put the paper on 755 00:59:25.960 --> 00:59:33.320 as regards the peace agreement in Vietnam, and again this 756 00:59:33.400 --> 00:59:37.239 is uh, this is basically forgotten history today going to 757 00:59:37.280 --> 00:59:39.599 the fact that it was on cere want to see 758 00:59:39.639 --> 00:59:45.360 abandoned quite literally to Shane Nixon, which is which is unconstonable. 759 00:59:47.159 --> 00:59:55.280 January twenty second, nineteen seventy three, Rogers, Secretary of State 760 00:59:55.360 --> 01:00:06.239 Rodgers and uh laid uptae his UH Vietnamese counterpart. It 761 01:00:06.320 --> 01:00:13.199 made it possible for America to fully disengage from Vietnam. 762 01:00:13.320 --> 01:00:18.719 It demanded that North Vietnam recognized the sovereign together the 763 01:00:18.719 --> 01:00:24.039 Republic of Vietnam, and an event when he direct attacked 764 01:00:26.039 --> 01:00:35.920 America would America would pursue a massive retaliation to substantially 765 01:00:36.000 --> 01:00:40.440 that threat. The agreement reserve the right to maintain carrier 766 01:00:40.480 --> 01:00:45.360 battle groups and Vietnamese will territorial waters, and call upon 767 01:00:45.920 --> 01:00:50.480 the aircraft station in Taiwan and Thailand towards that purpose. 768 01:00:53.480 --> 01:00:57.760 Presumably it's only include included conventional forces, but I believe 769 01:00:57.760 --> 01:01:02.840 it was left deliberately ambiguous. To say this was a 770 01:01:02.840 --> 01:01:10.599 formidable feat of extrication from an active conflict while maintaining 771 01:01:11.719 --> 01:01:18.719 credible threat potential would be a gross understatement. So this 772 01:01:18.960 --> 01:01:23.440 was you know, this is I. I click these things. 773 01:01:23.519 --> 01:01:26.599 I take these things off, not because I'm some kind 774 01:01:26.639 --> 01:01:31.679 of Nixon a hagiographer, but it's important to set the 775 01:01:31.679 --> 01:01:36.159 record straight. You know that this idea that the Nicks 776 01:01:36.159 --> 01:01:39.000 administration was some failed administration or Nixon with this kind 777 01:01:39.039 --> 01:01:43.199 of like weird paranoid eye just sort of presiding over 778 01:01:43.960 --> 01:01:50.119 this Vietnam quagmire. You know, nobody else can point to 779 01:01:50.159 --> 01:01:58.119 a policy resume that's successful other than other than Reagan, 780 01:01:59.440 --> 01:02:05.840 in my opinion, and in my opinion writing and capitalized 781 01:02:05.840 --> 01:02:12.400 more on circumstance than you know, he was the key 782 01:02:13.719 --> 01:02:19.360 variable in any of the outcomes from which his administration 783 01:02:19.440 --> 01:02:24.199 is so benefited. In fact, I'd argue that I'd argue 784 01:02:24.199 --> 01:02:28.800 that the collapse of the Warsaw Pact the nineteen eighty 785 01:02:28.880 --> 01:02:32.760 nine know directly to the accounishments of Nixon and Kissinger 786 01:02:32.800 --> 01:02:41.159 that are under discussion here. So what was Watergate and 787 01:02:41.199 --> 01:02:44.800 why did it happen? I mean, like we just discussed 788 01:02:46.880 --> 01:02:50.440 all of the uh, all the kind of all the 789 01:02:50.480 --> 01:02:54.079 kind of key factors were in place to attack the 790 01:02:54.159 --> 01:03:01.480 Nixon presidency. You know what caused them to? 791 01:03:02.159 --> 01:03:04.199 Can you talk about can you talk about the nineteen 792 01:03:04.239 --> 01:03:09.559 seventy two election, because it was yeah, okay, sorry, no. 793 01:03:09.599 --> 01:03:13.199 It's all right. You know, like we talked about a 794 01:03:13.199 --> 01:03:25.440 minute ago before, before of the Tangent, there was this 795 01:03:25.559 --> 01:03:30.000 idea that there was this claim, you know, that the 796 01:03:30.079 --> 01:03:33.079 Nixon presidency wasn't really legitimate. You know, it was a 797 01:03:33.119 --> 01:03:43.000 three way race, record low voter turnout. You know, the 798 01:03:43.079 --> 01:03:47.639 claim was by Nixon's enemies and the establishment. This was 799 01:03:47.679 --> 01:03:55.679 sort of an accident of fate. But really what really 800 01:03:55.719 --> 01:03:57.199 truly tipped the balance. 801 01:03:59.639 --> 01:03:59.840 Was a. 802 01:04:01.559 --> 01:04:08.559 Was a couple of things, these disasters of the early 803 01:04:08.599 --> 01:04:15.239 nineteen seventies. Despite the fact that the Draft was not 804 01:04:15.400 --> 01:04:17.920 long for this earth, and Nixon made that clear. Plus 805 01:04:17.960 --> 01:04:21.639 anybody who kind of understood warrant piece questions could see 806 01:04:21.639 --> 01:04:29.400 that the Draft was temporarily expanded and its net, so 807 01:04:29.519 --> 01:04:33.480 to speak, was widened, owing to the invasion of Cambodia, 808 01:04:35.239 --> 01:04:40.119 which was sold by a hostle media as the violation of, 809 01:04:40.199 --> 01:04:43.320 you know, the sovereignty of Cambodia, and Nixon widening the war, 810 01:04:43.440 --> 01:04:48.360 presumably for imperialist reasons. Cambodia was a haven for the 811 01:04:48.440 --> 01:04:58.360 National Liberation Front and a key operational base for the enemy. 812 01:04:58.519 --> 01:05:05.800 To not assault it prior to them entering negotiations for 813 01:05:06.079 --> 01:05:11.599 extrication from the conflict would have been grossly negligent, but 814 01:05:12.199 --> 01:05:16.960 the way it was presented it led directly to this 815 01:05:17.360 --> 01:05:21.280 mass wave of campus protests which then culminated in disasters 816 01:05:21.360 --> 01:05:23.960 like you know, they be killing of students at Kent 817 01:05:24.039 --> 01:05:27.719 State and things like this that kind of breathed like 818 01:05:27.800 --> 01:05:35.199 new life into the the ulification of Nixon. Now, what 819 01:05:35.239 --> 01:05:40.079 this also did was it led the Democrats. There's there 820 01:05:40.119 --> 01:05:41.719 was there was a there was more than a small 821 01:05:41.960 --> 01:05:44.840 component delusion. Hear could that reminds me? That's not unlike 822 01:05:44.880 --> 01:05:47.559 the way that the New York Times insisted like Hillary 823 01:05:47.559 --> 01:05:52.760 Clinton was a good candidate. The Democrats became convinced that 824 01:05:53.719 --> 01:05:56.159 there's gonna be this youth uprising that would bring down 825 01:05:56.239 --> 01:05:59.119 Nixon at the polls. You know, like youth culture never 826 01:05:59.159 --> 01:06:05.679 impacts president outcomes that way, electoral outcomes. The media insisted 827 01:06:05.719 --> 01:06:08.360 that like Nixon was in deep trouble going into the 828 01:06:08.440 --> 01:06:12.800 ninety seventy two election, they nominated George McGovern, who truly 829 01:06:12.880 --> 01:06:17.719 was a radical. He was Students for a Democratic Society 830 01:06:17.760 --> 01:06:21.159 types love McGovern. His platform was literally an immediate and 831 01:06:21.280 --> 01:06:25.599 total withdrawal from Vietnam and just like an abandonment of 832 01:06:25.599 --> 01:06:30.599 of it as a as an contested theater. A uh, 833 01:06:32.199 --> 01:06:35.440 A dramatic increase in the welfare state, you know, a 834 01:06:35.519 --> 01:06:40.440 dramatic increase and enforced integration and social engineering in this regard. 835 01:06:45.639 --> 01:06:49.079 When Nixon's staff, you know, air Linkman and Company told 836 01:06:49.199 --> 01:06:56.199 Nixon that McGovern was going to be the nominee, Nixon said, like, 837 01:06:56.280 --> 01:06:58.199 we've got this in the bag then, like this is 838 01:06:58.239 --> 01:07:05.440 a joke, right, But in the the ideological bent of 839 01:07:05.599 --> 01:07:08.079 I mean, the Washington Post, New York Times, you know, Time, 840 01:07:08.159 --> 01:07:13.599 news Week, the big three TV networks, they literally they 841 01:07:13.599 --> 01:07:16.159 literally insisting that Geordan McGovern's gonna run away with this 842 01:07:16.239 --> 01:07:18.960 election because he's gonna he's gonna get amnesty for the draft, 843 01:07:19.000 --> 01:07:22.360 you know, and you know he's gonna he's gonna he's 844 01:07:22.400 --> 01:07:24.559 gonna stand up for you know, like women's aborting rights, 845 01:07:24.559 --> 01:07:28.800 and the whole country is behind him. And what happened. 846 01:07:31.760 --> 01:07:36.719 Nixon literally swept the entire country, like like he swept 847 01:07:36.719 --> 01:07:43.280 the entire country. McGovern carried Massachusetts and the Issuer of Columbia. 848 01:07:43.800 --> 01:07:45.599 I mean to say, like he went down in flames, 849 01:07:45.679 --> 01:07:50.199 like doesn't even It was absurd. And that's something I 850 01:07:50.199 --> 01:07:52.719 pointed out to be able too, especially because lately a 851 01:07:52.760 --> 01:07:57.840 lot of my contents centered around Vietnam. I have to 852 01:07:57.880 --> 01:08:00.800 correct people a lot who claim, like, oh, when American 853 01:08:00.840 --> 01:08:03.400 soldiers can make from Vietnam. Everybody spit on them and 854 01:08:03.440 --> 01:08:07.519 said you beb killer. That didn't happen. It just didn't. 855 01:08:10.079 --> 01:08:15.000 Like Carter. When Lieutenant Kelly was a brought up on charges, 856 01:08:16.199 --> 01:08:20.119 you know, lay preacher, you know, liberal Jimmy Carter, he 857 01:08:20.279 --> 01:08:24.239 demanded people stand with Kelly and said, you know, drive 858 01:08:24.279 --> 01:08:26.279 with your headlights on during the day to show that 859 01:08:26.399 --> 01:08:29.960 Georgia supports Lieutenant Kelly by this idea that like the 860 01:08:30.039 --> 01:08:33.000 country hated Vietnam vets or like loved Ho Chi Minh, 861 01:08:33.199 --> 01:08:38.920 or that that's garbage. You know, there was a minority 862 01:08:38.960 --> 01:08:43.159 of a vanguard minority who were prone to those kinds 863 01:08:43.199 --> 01:08:49.319 of annects, but everybody hated them, you know. And these 864 01:08:49.359 --> 01:08:54.439 outfits like SDS and these I'm getting old but ahead 865 01:08:54.439 --> 01:08:57.520 of myself, but you know, as the seventies got underway, 866 01:08:59.199 --> 01:09:02.199 like these radical outfits and these terror organizations that popped up, 867 01:09:02.279 --> 01:09:06.159 including like the SLA and the people who uh you know, 868 01:09:06.239 --> 01:09:09.880 the Clanners and and Harold Cogny's National Socialists shout it 869 01:09:09.960 --> 01:09:20.399 out with and in Jonesborough. These organizations were funded by 870 01:09:20.800 --> 01:09:24.119 big NGOs, if not by the Warsaw Pact. Like there's 871 01:09:24.159 --> 01:09:30.079 not people weren't like spontaneously, you know, weren't spontaneously you know, 872 01:09:30.479 --> 01:09:33.119 taking up the cause of the Soviet Union or of 873 01:09:33.239 --> 01:09:37.279 you know, Maoism or whatever like. That's not that's not 874 01:09:37.399 --> 01:09:39.640 at all accurate depiction of the state of the country. 875 01:09:40.359 --> 01:09:46.880 And seventy two proved that. But much like twenty sixteen, 876 01:09:48.239 --> 01:09:50.079 the deep state in the media, staleis meant like when 877 01:09:50.119 --> 01:09:53.279 utterly berserk and like decided like this can never be 878 01:09:53.359 --> 01:09:56.279 allowed to happen again. I can't remember who it was. 879 01:09:56.359 --> 01:09:59.520 It might have been, It might have been the it 880 01:09:59.640 --> 01:10:02.359 was some big media mogul. It wasn't the guy at 881 01:10:02.399 --> 01:10:04.359 the Washington Post like o count and you I can't 882 01:10:04.600 --> 01:10:08.399 but he literally said after the election, apparently in seventy two, 883 01:10:08.439 --> 01:10:11.199 this can never be allowed to happen again, you know. 884 01:10:14.840 --> 01:10:18.640 Now the. 885 01:10:22.399 --> 01:10:25.600 And it could it couldn't be said either because you know, 886 01:10:25.840 --> 01:10:28.920 not just because the not just because the landslide win, 887 01:10:29.119 --> 01:10:32.520 but you know, because voter turnout was a lot more 888 01:10:32.640 --> 01:10:37.199 like precedented in terms of you know, for for a 889 01:10:37.399 --> 01:10:40.159 you know, for the post war era, like nobody could 890 01:10:40.199 --> 01:10:43.199 allege that like you know, Nixon, Nixon has no real mandate. 891 01:10:43.319 --> 01:10:46.159 You know this, this guy couldn't he didn't carry any 892 01:10:46.159 --> 01:10:48.720 of the cities. This is also when the myths started 893 01:10:48.960 --> 01:10:52.199 this like bizarre kind of symbol and claim that like 894 01:10:52.840 --> 01:10:55.119 the popular vote is the real votes, and like the 895 01:10:55.159 --> 01:10:58.760 electoral collogism conspiracy to hide the real votes. Like that 896 01:10:58.880 --> 01:11:03.680 kind of nonsense became in seventy two, and obviously that 897 01:11:03.720 --> 01:11:15.479 carries onto this day. But this, uh, this, I'm gonna 898 01:11:15.479 --> 01:11:17.520 stop here in a minute because what I'm gonna get 899 01:11:17.520 --> 01:11:19.640 into next has to do with the White House plumbers, 900 01:11:19.640 --> 01:11:21.760 and I don't want to just have to stop talking 901 01:11:21.760 --> 01:11:27.439 about the mid stream robili speaking. Otherwise it's gonna kind 902 01:11:27.439 --> 01:11:31.359 of interrupt the flow discussion. But uh, next episode will 903 01:11:32.039 --> 01:11:34.720 we'll deal specifically with like the Watergate break in and 904 01:11:36.119 --> 01:11:42.119 and everything everything everything adjacent and like the actual you know, 905 01:11:42.199 --> 01:11:48.439 the kind of move towards impeachment of President Nix and 906 01:11:48.479 --> 01:11:53.079 then also the indictment of the the intended indictment of 907 01:11:53.119 --> 01:11:56.720 Spiro Agne. But this background was important Otherwise what we 908 01:11:56.920 --> 01:12:01.800 Otherwise when we deal with the nitty ready, uh of 909 01:12:01.920 --> 01:12:04.760 what ensued, it wouldn't really have a context. And forgive 910 01:12:04.840 --> 01:12:07.880 my horse voice, I'm I'm still kind of getting over 911 01:12:08.560 --> 01:12:09.560 you know, the ship I go through. 912 01:12:11.399 --> 01:12:15.039 Yeah, no problem at all. Two plugs and we'll end 913 01:12:15.119 --> 01:12:16.439 it and come back for part two. 914 01:12:17.319 --> 01:12:20.880 Yeah, that's great, Pete. You can find me on substack 915 01:12:21.159 --> 01:12:23.960 at real Thomas seven seven seven dot substack dot com. 916 01:12:25.359 --> 01:12:29.560 I'm still editing the season two premiere of My phasor 917 01:12:30.039 --> 01:12:34.199 my favorite podcast, but it's coming. I promise you can 918 01:12:34.279 --> 01:12:38.239 find me on x real capital R E A L 919 01:12:38.680 --> 01:12:42.680 underscore number seven h O M A S seven seven seven. 920 01:12:43.680 --> 01:12:45.680 And you can always find me at my website. It's 921 01:12:45.760 --> 01:12:49.600 Thomas seven seven seven dot com number seven h O 922 01:12:49.800 --> 01:12:53.640 M A S seven seven seven. That's uh, that's all I. 923 01:12:53.720 --> 01:12:57.520 Got, all right until part two. Thank you, Thomas, Thank 924 01:12:57.520 --> 01:13:01.560 you man. I want to welcome everyone back to the 925 01:13:01.600 --> 01:13:04.800 Pekanana Show Part two. How are you doing today? 926 01:13:05.399 --> 01:13:08.439 I remem very well, thank you. There's a lot here, 927 01:13:10.640 --> 01:13:15.319 But what I chose, what I chose to emphasize is 928 01:13:15.359 --> 01:13:17.960 what I think that you know, our key variables that 929 01:13:18.039 --> 01:13:23.319 are most neglected by mainstream accounts. Like I said, the 930 01:13:23.399 --> 01:13:28.399 book Silent Coup is an exhaustive book about the Watergate 931 01:13:28.479 --> 01:13:30.119 break in. But I think, but that's the whole and 932 01:13:30.239 --> 01:13:35.159 I mean, and I basically agree with the thesis presented. 933 01:13:37.279 --> 01:13:41.520 That's the book that famously suggested that John Dean White 934 01:13:41.560 --> 01:13:46.720 House counsel, among other things, his his his mistress was 935 01:13:46.920 --> 01:13:51.680 uh this formerly like this this uh kind of high 936 01:13:51.760 --> 01:13:55.920 end call girl who would become a madam, and documents 937 01:13:55.960 --> 01:13:59.520 to that effect, you know, her client lists and things 938 01:14:00.039 --> 01:14:03.840 were supposedly was the object that the White House plumbers 939 01:14:03.880 --> 01:14:07.359 were supposed to procure from the Watergate Hotel. That may 940 01:14:07.439 --> 01:14:11.159 in fact be true. There's also a claim presented that 941 01:14:12.000 --> 01:14:19.640 representatives of Howard Hughes were we're trying to incentive like 942 01:14:19.720 --> 01:14:23.600 putting out feelers about a payout relating to getting their 943 01:14:23.680 --> 01:14:31.000 way with respects to these burgening like emissions restrictions on 944 01:14:31.079 --> 01:14:36.199 aircraft and other things I did did The evidentiary record 945 01:14:36.319 --> 01:14:40.039 on that claim is scant. But there's also a claim 946 01:14:40.119 --> 01:14:44.159 that the White House plumbers were either looking for evidence 947 01:14:44.560 --> 01:14:49.600 of you know, the solicitations of of brides that effect, 948 01:14:49.760 --> 01:14:51.479 or that there was actual like bag money in the 949 01:14:51.520 --> 01:14:55.119 Watergo Hotel and they were looking to steal it. Frankly, 950 01:14:55.840 --> 01:14:58.479 I find that easier to believe than the latter. Easier 951 01:14:58.520 --> 01:15:01.600 to believe in some of these suggestions because G. Gordon 952 01:15:01.680 --> 01:15:04.039 Liddy was not a dummy. He was a pretty experience, 953 01:15:05.760 --> 01:15:09.439 you know, a heistman, albeit you know, like he wasn't 954 01:15:09.479 --> 01:15:10.880 like a street dude. He was a guy who was 955 01:15:10.880 --> 01:15:14.960 insinuated into kind of the and into and into the 956 01:15:15.079 --> 01:15:18.520 kind of gray ops as it were. But you know, 957 01:15:19.399 --> 01:15:23.079 first of all, it was like a weird thing to do. Secondly, 958 01:15:23.960 --> 01:15:26.560 because nobody really seemed in I mean, if anybody knew 959 01:15:27.239 --> 01:15:30.479 in in an if anyone in an executive role truly 960 01:15:30.560 --> 01:15:32.279 knew like what the whole story was, he would have 961 01:15:32.359 --> 01:15:35.439 just come clean with it. I can. I can easily 962 01:15:35.479 --> 01:15:38.880 see Liddy saying like, hey, there's you know, there's one 963 01:15:38.960 --> 01:15:41.439 hundred thousand dollars, which in those days was real money, 964 01:15:41.920 --> 01:15:44.560 like in the water yet hotel, you know, and nobody 965 01:15:44.600 --> 01:15:47.000 can report it stolen, like I think Christmas is gonna 966 01:15:47.039 --> 01:15:50.000 come early this year. I mean, frankly, if I were him, 967 01:15:50.039 --> 01:15:55.479 I do it, you know that? Uh? Or I mean 968 01:15:55.520 --> 01:15:57.760 we may never know. But my point is, I guess 969 01:15:58.560 --> 01:16:01.720 it's very very peculiar that nobody, including Lyddy himself, ever 970 01:16:01.920 --> 01:16:07.199 really acknowledged what they were doing, you know, And uh, 971 01:16:07.800 --> 01:16:10.199 the whole thing seems like kind of a comedy of errors, 972 01:16:10.239 --> 01:16:12.600 you know, like it and I mean it's kind of 973 01:16:12.640 --> 01:16:15.359 like that's kind of the point is that this was 974 01:16:15.640 --> 01:16:18.199 I call it, I called Watergate the Seinfeld scandal because 975 01:16:18.199 --> 01:16:21.039 it's the scandal about nothing, and not only it's about nothing, 976 01:16:21.199 --> 01:16:24.800 but especially when you consider sort of the precedent relating 977 01:16:24.880 --> 01:16:31.520 to executive malfeasance, as it were, the idea that you know, 978 01:16:31.680 --> 01:16:34.359 these kinds of white house hatchetmen and breaking into a 979 01:16:34.439 --> 01:16:39.920 hotel which sometimes acts as a like a honey pot 980 01:16:40.079 --> 01:16:45.880 for you know, setting up liaisons between you know, DNC 981 01:16:46.039 --> 01:16:48.520 contributors and hookers. The idea that this is something like 982 01:16:48.880 --> 01:16:51.600 this is like some moral affront to like all things decent, 983 01:16:51.680 --> 01:16:53.640 and this is just like so horrible it almost can't 984 01:16:53.680 --> 01:16:55.680 be spoken of. Like there's something just kind of like 985 01:16:55.760 --> 01:16:59.800 preposterous about that. You know, I'm at the very worst 986 01:16:59.840 --> 01:17:02.880 is an instance of breaking and entering. I mean okay, 987 01:17:03.199 --> 01:17:07.159 like that there's that shocking to the conscience, you know, 988 01:17:07.279 --> 01:17:10.119 I mean America lost its innocence the day it was 989 01:17:10.159 --> 01:17:12.840 discovered that these kind of weird guys broke into a hotel. 990 01:17:13.239 --> 01:17:17.840 I mean like like like where it it doesn't pass 991 01:17:17.960 --> 01:17:21.159 the straight face test, and people will allege that there's 992 01:17:21.199 --> 01:17:24.159 like something I'm missing or something that Nicks and apologies 993 01:17:24.199 --> 01:17:28.079 are just missing because there's some broader like principle at play. 994 01:17:28.600 --> 01:17:31.279 You know, like it's really, really really weird if you're 995 01:17:31.279 --> 01:17:34.640 gonna if you're gonna confabulate, you know, like some kind 996 01:17:34.680 --> 01:17:40.920 of like feigned moral outrage, you know, but be it 997 01:17:40.960 --> 01:17:43.760 as it may. Like. Well, and also I'll include this 998 01:17:43.920 --> 01:17:47.840 now I was gonna I wasn't gonna speak of it 999 01:17:47.960 --> 01:17:52.079 until kind of the end of the episode. But I 1000 01:17:52.199 --> 01:17:56.039 want people to contemplate. I want people to conteplate with 1001 01:17:56.119 --> 01:18:02.119 the precedent is for impeachment of a sitting president. Now 1002 01:18:02.199 --> 01:18:04.880 this isn't what about ism, Okay, When we're talking about 1003 01:18:04.880 --> 01:18:08.319 the criminal law, and impeachment is a matter of criminal law, 1004 01:18:08.920 --> 01:18:16.880 albeit a narrowly tailored process and an unusual circumstance, it 1005 01:18:16.920 --> 01:18:22.640 gives rise to it. You know, what constitutes an actionable 1006 01:18:22.760 --> 01:18:28.840 wrong is contingent upon the facts, Okay, And it's continued 1007 01:18:28.880 --> 01:18:31.520 to it's contingent upon how the trier of law and 1008 01:18:31.600 --> 01:18:35.600 the trier of fact has interpreted the circumstances giving rise 1009 01:18:35.760 --> 01:18:40.199 to the alleged wrong. Okay, If it's just something that's 1010 01:18:40.640 --> 01:18:43.359 if it's just a process that's capriciously and randomly and 1011 01:18:43.479 --> 01:18:50.079 arbitrarily invoked owing to political expediency, Like we're not really 1012 01:18:50.159 --> 01:18:53.039 talking about criminal justice, you know, we're just talking about 1013 01:18:53.520 --> 01:18:57.720 what we're talking about politics, like masquerading as as a 1014 01:18:58.319 --> 01:19:05.560 you know, due process of criminal law. Uh So, not 1015 01:19:05.840 --> 01:19:13.680 even uh not even a decade after Watergate, it came 1016 01:19:13.720 --> 01:19:18.560 to light that Reagan's National Security Cabinet to get around 1017 01:19:18.600 --> 01:19:23.119 the Bowland Amendment, which had specifically prohibited aid to the 1018 01:19:23.199 --> 01:19:31.079 Concience in Nicaragua or any other actor whose aim was 1019 01:19:31.119 --> 01:19:36.800 to overthrow the Santinista government, Reagan's National Security Cabinet had 1020 01:19:36.840 --> 01:19:40.039 taken it upon itself to sell arms to Iran and 1021 01:19:40.159 --> 01:19:44.800 his BLAH, which was listed as a terrorist organization, and 1022 01:19:44.960 --> 01:19:51.319 to take those funds and you know, provide the Contras 1023 01:19:51.479 --> 01:19:57.479 with with arms of their own, and you know, money 1024 01:19:57.520 --> 01:19:59.840 for infrastructural needs so that they could continue to proces 1025 01:20:00.079 --> 01:20:05.239 cute there war and direct violation of the Bold Amendment. 1026 01:20:05.960 --> 01:20:11.000 That's incredibly illegal. I mean, my sympathy actually has always 1027 01:20:11.000 --> 01:20:14.039 been with Oliver North, Like I met the guy years back, 1028 01:20:14.119 --> 01:20:18.399 and I probably would have done the same thing in 1029 01:20:18.520 --> 01:20:22.960 his shoes, honestly, especially because he had come to believe 1030 01:20:23.039 --> 01:20:26.439 he had a personal debt of honor to these people 1031 01:20:26.600 --> 01:20:30.640 in Nicaragua. You know, he made certain guarantees to them. 1032 01:20:30.760 --> 01:20:34.520 This was before so Calm existed, and these kinds of 1033 01:20:35.640 --> 01:20:42.960 ongoing special operations were kind of ad hoc just for clarity, 1034 01:20:43.439 --> 01:20:45.920 you know what, Like like North wasn't putting on airs 1035 01:20:45.920 --> 01:20:48.920 when he said he felt personally responsible. But however, anyone 1036 01:20:49.000 --> 01:20:53.119 feels about this, that's incredibly illegal. There was never any 1037 01:20:53.159 --> 01:20:57.359 talk of impeaching Reagan, and I mean selling selling weapons 1038 01:20:57.399 --> 01:21:01.439 to his ballah to then illegally pay the Contras in 1039 01:21:01.880 --> 01:21:13.439 direct violation of a you know, an explicitly prohibited you know, 1040 01:21:15.159 --> 01:21:18.880 foreign policy initiative. I mean, that's kind of that that 1041 01:21:19.000 --> 01:21:21.479 that that's kind of a textbook example of what the 1042 01:21:21.560 --> 01:21:29.279 impeachment power exists for. Okay, but nobody seriously bandied impeaching Reagan. 1043 01:21:31.359 --> 01:21:36.039 You know, subsequent people forget because I guess there's not 1044 01:21:36.720 --> 01:21:40.800 really historical events anymore in the twentieth century sense, which 1045 01:21:40.840 --> 01:21:45.760 is a subject for another podcast episode. But such that 1046 01:21:45.840 --> 01:21:51.720 there is discussion of the Iraq War, it's presented as 1047 01:21:51.800 --> 01:21:55.800 Bush forty three eating a buffoon, or you know, Tony 1048 01:21:55.880 --> 01:21:59.840 Blair lining to the lying to the people of the UK, 1049 01:22:01.079 --> 01:22:05.359 or you know, the kind of tactical disaster that ensued, 1050 01:22:05.760 --> 01:22:10.000 you know, within months of Bush declaring mission accomplished. What 1051 01:22:10.079 --> 01:22:13.479 people forget is that Bush literally suborn perjury through Colin 1052 01:22:13.560 --> 01:22:20.560 Powell before the Senate. You know, that's incredibly illegal, and 1053 01:22:21.800 --> 01:22:23.359 this time of the fact, there's a felony in its 1054 01:22:23.399 --> 01:22:29.640 own terms, and it's kind of unconscionably you know, is 1055 01:22:29.760 --> 01:22:32.039 wrong just on it in terms of you know, the 1056 01:22:32.079 --> 01:22:34.920 implicators of public trust. You know, tens of thousands of 1057 01:22:34.960 --> 01:22:38.439 people died because of this perjury, and like there was 1058 01:22:38.560 --> 01:22:41.840 nary I mean who who suggested Bush should be impeached 1059 01:22:42.439 --> 01:22:44.760 other than you know, like like people like Bill Maher 1060 01:22:44.800 --> 01:22:48.439 would like, you know, drop like stupid, one off kind 1061 01:22:48.479 --> 01:22:51.159 of statements that effect. But there's never any serious discussion 1062 01:22:51.199 --> 01:22:54.199 of that. So like suborning perjury to procure a warman 1063 01:22:54.319 --> 01:22:58.079 date where in tens of thousands of people die, that's permissible. 1064 01:22:58.119 --> 01:23:02.000 That's a permissible executive act. But guys breaking into a hotel, 1065 01:23:02.800 --> 01:23:05.359 you know, it cannot there's something that cannot be allowed 1066 01:23:05.399 --> 01:23:08.159 to stand. I mean, if there's something wrong with this picture, 1067 01:23:08.279 --> 01:23:12.960 like however you feel about Nixon, you know, and you 1068 01:23:13.079 --> 01:23:16.520 can't people can't cope by saying that's what about is them. 1069 01:23:16.560 --> 01:23:18.640 We're talking about criminal law. There's no what about ism 1070 01:23:18.680 --> 01:23:23.079 in criminal law. There's precedent that controls, and there's everything 1071 01:23:23.159 --> 01:23:26.520 else that's that's not controlling, you know. So I mean, 1072 01:23:26.560 --> 01:23:29.920 I don't I don't think that I don't think that 1073 01:23:30.000 --> 01:23:34.199 the Watergate fetishes and they really are fetishist. And I'm 1074 01:23:34.239 --> 01:23:37.159 not just being silly. I don't really think they have 1075 01:23:37.279 --> 01:23:42.439 like a limb to stand on anymore. So I think 1076 01:23:42.520 --> 01:23:45.520 increasingly in the historical record it's kind of it's gonna 1077 01:23:45.600 --> 01:23:50.560 kind of evaporate. But it hasn't happened yet, you know. 1078 01:23:50.760 --> 01:23:54.479 And it's not just uh, it's not just because of 1079 01:23:54.920 --> 01:23:57.159 it's not just because of boomers, you know. And there 1080 01:23:57.800 --> 01:23:59.960 I mean, everybody likes to burn boomers and proverbial life. 1081 01:24:00.600 --> 01:24:03.920 And I mean, I'm the first to point out that 1082 01:24:04.479 --> 01:24:10.199 some of these ridiculous sort of civic mythologies, you know, 1083 01:24:10.319 --> 01:24:16.119 originate from that coterie. But the like like the Watergate 1084 01:24:16.279 --> 01:24:20.800 fantasy goes beyond boomerism. There's something really deep seated about 1085 01:24:20.840 --> 01:24:25.439 it and like literally delusional about it, you know, in 1086 01:24:25.560 --> 01:24:28.159 the and it only makes sense if you consider the 1087 01:24:28.199 --> 01:24:32.520 person of Nixon, not even Nixon's subjective traits and the 1088 01:24:32.600 --> 01:24:36.079 man himself, but he represents the same thing that Trump 1089 01:24:36.159 --> 01:24:37.079 does to these people. 1090 01:24:38.279 --> 01:24:40.199 So I was and I was going to say, there 1091 01:24:40.239 --> 01:24:42.199 was an article on the Wall Street in the Wall 1092 01:24:42.239 --> 01:24:45.039 Street Journal, I think it was today, is yesterday or today? 1093 01:24:45.039 --> 01:24:50.039 I can't remember that mentions Trump and talks about how 1094 01:24:50.560 --> 01:24:53.079 he said that there were good people on both sides. 1095 01:24:53.800 --> 01:24:57.640 I mean they're still yeah, although and you will still 1096 01:24:57.760 --> 01:25:01.439 have people defending Russia Gate that he you know, that 1097 01:25:01.520 --> 01:25:05.279 he was he colluded with the Russians, And I mean, it's. 1098 01:25:05.520 --> 01:25:07.720 That's one of the more bizarre even even considering like 1099 01:25:07.800 --> 01:25:11.960 what is first of all, like the term collusion, it's 1100 01:25:12.000 --> 01:25:14.520 not even a colloquialism. It doesn't mean anything, like as 1101 01:25:14.520 --> 01:25:18.760 a matter of law, is is the State Department colluding 1102 01:25:18.920 --> 01:25:23.239 with the House of Sod? Like is Lindsey Graham colluding 1103 01:25:23.319 --> 01:25:27.720 with Israel? Like what does that even mean? Like Donald 1104 01:25:27.760 --> 01:25:32.439 Trump likes Vladimir Putin, so Russian trolls, you know, said 1105 01:25:32.600 --> 01:25:36.000 mean things about Hillary Clinton through memes and that ruined 1106 01:25:36.079 --> 01:25:40.359 the election. That that's that's so fucking stupid. I don't 1107 01:25:40.359 --> 01:25:43.680 even know like where to It's like beyond it's beyond 1108 01:25:43.720 --> 01:25:46.239 the conceptual reality of like a saying it old person, 1109 01:25:47.479 --> 01:25:51.159 you know, like I and again, like quote unquote, collusion 1110 01:25:52.319 --> 01:25:56.720 isn't it has no meaning as a matter of law 1111 01:25:56.960 --> 01:26:01.680 or in the context of you know, power political affairs. 1112 01:26:03.479 --> 01:26:11.279 There's there's conspiracy. I mean, if you can claim that, 1113 01:26:11.880 --> 01:26:14.800 I guess you could claim that Donald Trump he took 1114 01:26:14.880 --> 01:26:18.119 sensitive data or relating to like the NATO operation in 1115 01:26:18.359 --> 01:26:23.880 Ukraine and Fedda to FSB. I mean, I he could 1116 01:26:24.039 --> 01:26:25.880 if he's the president, He's within his rights to do that. 1117 01:26:27.680 --> 01:26:30.760 That's not against the law. But I mean, I suppose 1118 01:26:30.760 --> 01:26:34.039 he could say that, you know, they could constitute some 1119 01:26:34.159 --> 01:26:37.520 sort of conspiracy between you know, the Kremlin and the 1120 01:26:37.560 --> 01:26:40.760 White House. But like, what the fuck is collusion? Like 1121 01:26:40.880 --> 01:26:45.079 it doesn't that doesn't mean it literally means nothing, you know, 1122 01:26:45.119 --> 01:26:48.279 and even if it even taking it on its own terms, 1123 01:26:48.319 --> 01:26:50.560 it's like I don't think I don't think. I don't 1124 01:26:50.600 --> 01:26:56.680 think Trump has developed ideas on power politics anyway. But uh, 1125 01:26:58.000 --> 01:26:59.920 you know the fact that he doesn't have some drain 1126 01:27:00.520 --> 01:27:03.439 hatred of Russia and maybe let's say, let's even say 1127 01:27:03.560 --> 01:27:05.960 like he was an admirer of Vladimir Putin, was like 1128 01:27:06.399 --> 01:27:10.840 that and I mean that that's that's not that that's 1129 01:27:10.880 --> 01:27:14.479 not somehow against the law, nor is it particularly strange. 1130 01:27:15.359 --> 01:27:17.359 I mean, I went in church all used to pretty 1131 01:27:17.399 --> 01:27:23.319 regularly praise Mussolini, you know, was he colluding with Mussolini? 1132 01:27:23.520 --> 01:27:26.479 Like what is what? What does this mean? I realized 1133 01:27:26.520 --> 01:27:31.880 him being obtuse myself. But it doesn't. But right the point, 1134 01:27:31.880 --> 01:27:33.119 it was not even it's not even like there was 1135 01:27:33.119 --> 01:27:36.840 a confatulated scandal relating to Russia and Donalds from because 1136 01:27:36.880 --> 01:27:39.000 it like literally meant nothing. It was just like these 1137 01:27:39.079 --> 01:27:44.920 weird sound bites kind of kind of spat out by 1138 01:27:45.159 --> 01:27:48.920 people who don't have a meaningful understanding of the subjects, 1139 01:27:49.840 --> 01:27:52.199 you know, and it's parameters like or you're you're colluding 1140 01:27:52.279 --> 01:27:56.239 with a bad guy, Like it's that's that's illiterate, Like 1141 01:27:56.720 --> 01:27:59.159 on its face, it's a literate it's it's it's not 1142 01:28:00.760 --> 01:28:03.920 it's not. Nobody competent in the English language would say that. 1143 01:28:05.600 --> 01:28:10.560 But moving on, because like I said, I if very 1144 01:28:10.640 --> 01:28:14.079 many for jumping around. I I I thought it was 1145 01:28:14.119 --> 01:28:20.560 better placed to raise the issue of precedent now rather 1146 01:28:20.600 --> 01:28:22.600 than kind of on the tail end when we'll probably 1147 01:28:22.680 --> 01:28:26.279 have you know, moved on to other things. Something I 1148 01:28:26.399 --> 01:28:32.000 touched on a bit last time, and I think Warrant's 1149 01:28:32.399 --> 01:28:39.119 a bit of a deeper discussion. This wasn't the approximate 1150 01:28:39.239 --> 01:28:45.000 cause by any means, of the hostility that developed towards 1151 01:28:45.159 --> 01:28:51.880 mister Nixon, but it was an essential cause within the 1152 01:28:52.239 --> 01:29:00.520 broader nexus of you know, deep state opinion. I ironically, 1153 01:29:01.119 --> 01:29:05.600 I believe that despite the fact that these deep state 1154 01:29:05.720 --> 01:29:14.399 types owed their personal prosperity and clout to the dramatic 1155 01:29:14.479 --> 01:29:20.640 expansion of state power and you know, the concominant you know, 1156 01:29:20.760 --> 01:29:27.279 like physical expansion of the state apparatus itself, there remains 1157 01:29:27.359 --> 01:29:30.640 is kind of basic hostility and suspicion of an empowered 1158 01:29:30.720 --> 01:29:34.880 executive office. You know, not just in ethical terms and 1159 01:29:35.119 --> 01:29:39.079 not just in war and peace terms, as the country 1160 01:29:39.199 --> 01:29:44.119 kind of fractured in elite corridors relating to the situation 1161 01:29:44.239 --> 01:29:46.800 of the Soviet Union and everything else. Okay, after the 1162 01:29:48.199 --> 01:29:53.800 that doest settled into the Second World War, you know, 1163 01:29:54.199 --> 01:29:57.479 the presidency and becoming a true power onto itself structurally, 1164 01:30:00.680 --> 01:30:06.560 that seemed to impact people it in a deeply psychological capacity, 1165 01:30:07.199 --> 01:30:10.960 even people who presumably were very familiar with kind of 1166 01:30:10.960 --> 01:30:16.159 the structural parameters of government. As a matter of law, which, 1167 01:30:16.319 --> 01:30:19.000 according to the letter of Article two, quite literally vest 1168 01:30:19.079 --> 01:30:21.439 you know, tremendous power in the executive. It's one things 1169 01:30:21.479 --> 01:30:23.920 to understand as a matter of law that this power 1170 01:30:24.000 --> 01:30:28.439 exists as a potentiality. It's another thing to kind of 1171 01:30:28.479 --> 01:30:33.520 be surrounded by it physically and to witness its tremendous reach, 1172 01:30:34.600 --> 01:30:38.640 and to contemplate one of his own fortunes if that 1173 01:30:38.760 --> 01:30:44.640 great power was uh, what was was turned on you? Okay. 1174 01:30:49.119 --> 01:30:52.039 The first reference to the imperial the quote imperial presidency 1175 01:30:52.399 --> 01:31:00.239 emerged right around the end of Wilson's administration, even even 1176 01:31:00.279 --> 01:31:04.439 among media people who are otherwise sympathetic to the kind 1177 01:31:04.479 --> 01:31:08.319 of progressive enterprise, at least the strike represented by Wilson. 1178 01:31:10.239 --> 01:31:14.520 The uh. The fact that executive power had been growing steadily, 1179 01:31:16.960 --> 01:31:23.439 with a dramatic spike obviously during Roosevelt's tenure, but even 1180 01:31:23.520 --> 01:31:26.159 before and after that, you know, slowly but steadily, you know, 1181 01:31:26.199 --> 01:31:31.399 there'd been this structural increase, and you know, the real 1182 01:31:31.479 --> 01:31:38.319 power of the executive and media began to view itself 1183 01:31:38.399 --> 01:31:43.520 increasingly as you know, not just the fourth estate, you know, 1184 01:31:43.600 --> 01:31:47.159 as this kind of as it's kind of beacon proverbially 1185 01:31:47.319 --> 01:31:51.520 that you know, whose role it was to ethically, you know, 1186 01:31:51.640 --> 01:31:55.920 lead the Holy poloy away from you know, the false 1187 01:31:56.000 --> 01:32:04.000 promises and and bad faith of official dumb But also 1188 01:32:06.399 --> 01:32:09.600 they viewed themselves as literally like a hedge against an 1189 01:32:09.680 --> 01:32:15.079 active presidency that had increasingly taken on you know, what 1190 01:32:15.319 --> 01:32:18.640 had theretofore been, you know, the role of an increasingly 1191 01:32:18.720 --> 01:32:25.319 comatose and kind of and kind of inert senate, you know, 1192 01:32:25.399 --> 01:32:30.600 and the fact that again the peculiarities of Nuremberg and 1193 01:32:31.520 --> 01:32:36.560 the strange fictions therein. We talked about that and how 1194 01:32:36.640 --> 01:32:43.319 that came to constitute you know, the manner and means 1195 01:32:44.560 --> 01:32:47.199 in which American president's pictured a war mandate. You know, 1196 01:32:47.239 --> 01:32:48.880 we talked about this in the context of the Gulf 1197 01:32:48.920 --> 01:32:52.439 of Tonkin, but it also it changed the way that 1198 01:32:52.640 --> 01:32:57.680 wars were waged in terms of civilian command and control, okay, 1199 01:32:57.800 --> 01:33:01.800 and basic capacities. You know. Not only did not only 1200 01:33:01.840 --> 01:33:06.479 did the Senate kind of scale back its own micromanagement 1201 01:33:06.640 --> 01:33:10.560 of such affairs, in part, of course, obviously because these 1202 01:33:10.640 --> 01:33:13.319 careers type I wanted to protect their own reputation and 1203 01:33:13.439 --> 01:33:19.399 voting record, but also increasingly it became the domain of experts. 1204 01:33:19.600 --> 01:33:24.199 Like everything else. You know, you'd have a president you 1205 01:33:24.319 --> 01:33:28.399 had this, you know, emboldened and dramatically and large and 1206 01:33:28.479 --> 01:33:34.239 relative terms of national security staff. They were interpreting and 1207 01:33:34.359 --> 01:33:38.119 processing reams upon reams of data, trying to interpret it 1208 01:33:38.159 --> 01:33:42.800 in real time in order to render battlefield decisions, you know, 1209 01:33:42.920 --> 01:33:45.920 in a hot theater of war in Southeast Asia, well 1210 01:33:45.960 --> 01:33:51.199 at the same time managing political perceptions you know, around 1211 01:33:51.279 --> 01:33:55.840 those decisions by both friendlies and hostiles. On top of that, 1212 01:33:56.159 --> 01:34:00.840 there was the ongoing strategic menace of the Cold War. 1213 01:34:02.079 --> 01:34:06.680 You know, this wasn't even even in the kind of 1214 01:34:06.720 --> 01:34:11.760 best of all possible worlds with a balance of power 1215 01:34:12.840 --> 01:34:16.640 structurally between the three branches of government kind of existed 1216 01:34:16.680 --> 01:34:22.000 in look a perfect and complementary stasis. It just it's 1217 01:34:22.279 --> 01:34:30.159 inconceivable to conceptualize some sort of equal division of responsibility 1218 01:34:32.039 --> 01:34:34.920 over war and peace questions, you know, between the executive 1219 01:34:35.000 --> 01:34:41.479 and the legislature. And people found this alarming, I believe, 1220 01:34:41.960 --> 01:34:46.720 particularly people who frankly, do not really understand the nuances 1221 01:34:46.760 --> 01:34:51.319 of war and peace, either you know, in practical terms 1222 01:34:52.600 --> 01:34:58.199 at scale, or in you know, conceptual and philosophical terms. 1223 01:35:00.880 --> 01:35:05.920 Most men can't and don't. Frankly, I've made that point 1224 01:35:05.960 --> 01:35:10.680 a lot, and I'm sure, those of a less than 1225 01:35:10.760 --> 01:35:14.560 charitable view of me and my work product would say, well, 1226 01:35:15.399 --> 01:35:18.680 I'm just trying to insinuate some kind of mystique into 1227 01:35:21.119 --> 01:35:27.079 my own skill set. That's not true at all. But 1228 01:35:27.680 --> 01:35:40.039 moving on, I mean, just for Roosevelt's White House was 1229 01:35:40.079 --> 01:35:42.119 the first White House where every man had had had 1230 01:35:42.119 --> 01:35:45.039 a number of executives administrative assistants. I mean, it's like, 1231 01:35:45.119 --> 01:35:48.479 think about that, okay, I mean, like it was the 1232 01:35:48.560 --> 01:35:58.119 Truman White House. Yeah, was represented something of a scaling 1233 01:35:58.279 --> 01:36:03.439 back this tendency. But by the time but by the 1234 01:36:03.520 --> 01:36:06.840 time Eisenhower took the oath of office, like like the 1235 01:36:06.960 --> 01:36:11.000 managerial state was in structural terms, was here to stay. 1236 01:36:11.680 --> 01:36:14.720 And nowhere was that felt more than you know in 1237 01:36:14.800 --> 01:36:21.880 the Oval office and everything that orbited it, the uh 1238 01:36:23.760 --> 01:36:38.960 lbj's uh White House personnel staff, you know, ancillary people, 1239 01:36:39.079 --> 01:36:41.039 you know, like custodians, you know, everybody, feel like the 1240 01:36:41.119 --> 01:36:47.760 top down it was forty times bigger than the size 1241 01:36:47.760 --> 01:36:52.600 of the entire like White House Personnel Directorate and uh 1242 01:36:53.359 --> 01:36:59.960 in the Hoover administration. So I considered that it uh 1243 01:37:00.079 --> 01:37:06.039 uh the cost had exceeded by nineteen seventy two a 1244 01:37:06.199 --> 01:37:08.960 billion dollars. It was. It was, it was, it was. 1245 01:37:09.199 --> 01:37:11.039 It was effective to exceed a billion dollars by the 1246 01:37:11.119 --> 01:37:14.319 end of the decade as of nineteen seventy two. And 1247 01:37:14.680 --> 01:37:16.960 that was that was huge money in those days. It 1248 01:37:17.079 --> 01:37:20.159 was like almost inconceivable money. Okay, like it's not it's 1249 01:37:20.159 --> 01:37:25.760 not even suggested considering you know, what was on the 1250 01:37:25.840 --> 01:37:29.760 table needs to be the Cold War, America's defense commitments, 1251 01:37:30.279 --> 01:37:34.560 collective security commitments for better or worse. You know, these 1252 01:37:34.640 --> 01:37:38.359 infrastructural projects that were still ongoing, you know, like the 1253 01:37:38.439 --> 01:37:41.720 highway system. That's not that's not to say that this 1254 01:37:41.920 --> 01:37:46.079 was just you know, an example of like public spending 1255 01:37:46.279 --> 01:37:50.760 gone crazy and and pigs just you know, gorging themselves 1256 01:37:50.800 --> 01:37:56.640 at the verbial trough. But that was a staggering number, 1257 01:37:57.560 --> 01:38:06.760 you know, to anybody in those days. The Kenned he 1258 01:38:06.880 --> 01:38:09.760 tried to finesse this a bit, you know, by one 1259 01:38:09.800 --> 01:38:14.119 of the reasons why, like the Camelot myth, like corny 1260 01:38:15.159 --> 01:38:18.800 as that kind of whole miss manufacturing mystique, that kind 1261 01:38:18.800 --> 01:38:22.600 of like Time magazine and Life magazine mystique was that 1262 01:38:22.720 --> 01:38:27.159 was very much cultivated by the Kennedy administration. Okay, in 1263 01:38:27.279 --> 01:38:30.359 lieu of transparency, you give people a fairy tale literally, 1264 01:38:31.159 --> 01:38:36.199 all right, all of that came to crashing down when 1265 01:38:36.279 --> 01:38:39.880 Kennedy was murdered. You know, LBJ played things very close 1266 01:38:39.920 --> 01:38:44.479 to the chest. His concession to media was allowing them 1267 01:38:44.520 --> 01:38:49.439 to embed in in the field in Vietnam, you know, 1268 01:38:49.560 --> 01:38:52.680 with the common infantry as well as you know, it's 1269 01:38:52.840 --> 01:38:56.560 allowing newsmen to attack himself to the staff of of 1270 01:38:56.720 --> 01:39:00.560 a battalion level commands and higher, which proved to be 1271 01:39:00.600 --> 01:39:07.359 a terrible mistake. But the idea that suddenly there's been 1272 01:39:07.399 --> 01:39:11.520 an information blackout from the imperial executive. This is how 1273 01:39:11.560 --> 01:39:17.159 that kind of canard gained traction, you know. And obviously 1274 01:39:17.239 --> 01:39:21.760 it played into it played into their despite the fact 1275 01:39:21.760 --> 01:39:23.760 that these are a bunch of like newsmen, you know, 1276 01:39:23.960 --> 01:39:28.640 and like bitch made police worshipers, you know, and and 1277 01:39:28.840 --> 01:39:33.000 and and UH and middling apparatics, they fancy themselves as 1278 01:39:33.039 --> 01:39:38.199 like anti authoritarian you know, and this all these tendencies, 1279 01:39:38.199 --> 01:39:42.920 all these kinds of future shock tendencies, you know, fed 1280 01:39:42.960 --> 01:39:45.560 their kind of delusions in that regard, you know, their 1281 01:39:45.640 --> 01:39:49.159 delusions about themselves and their own roles and significance as 1282 01:39:49.199 --> 01:39:53.359 well as about you know the nature of UH. You know, 1283 01:39:53.479 --> 01:39:56.319 the UH the imperial executive, which again was kind of 1284 01:39:57.199 --> 01:40:02.920 a boogeyman that, although only extending our own minds, you know, loomed, uh, 1285 01:40:03.560 --> 01:40:12.479 like the angel of death over these people's horizon. And frankly, 1286 01:40:14.520 --> 01:40:17.720 I mean really from really from the turn of the 1287 01:40:17.760 --> 01:40:23.920 century onward, it's uh. You know, the White House as 1288 01:40:23.920 --> 01:40:25.720 a power center. It was engaged in all kinds of 1289 01:40:25.760 --> 01:40:29.560 activities which which didn't bear a public scrutiny. And the 1290 01:40:29.680 --> 01:40:33.319 Cold War kind of sealed the fate of you know 1291 01:40:33.399 --> 01:40:35.560 that you got the kind of open executive. You know, 1292 01:40:35.600 --> 01:40:40.520 you couldn't allow you couldn't allow free flow of information 1293 01:40:41.800 --> 01:40:50.800 out of the White House when you know, when if 1294 01:40:50.840 --> 01:40:58.840 the enemy were to come upon you know what happened 1295 01:40:58.920 --> 01:41:03.039 upon you know, the right data, the strategic balance could 1296 01:41:03.039 --> 01:41:08.520 be totally altered in terms of you know, in terms 1297 01:41:08.560 --> 01:41:19.520 of discerning like the the will capability and and and 1298 01:41:19.640 --> 01:41:26.439 political and political gumption to you know, to wage war 1299 01:41:26.680 --> 01:41:28.680 like this. I mean this goloes out saying, but it 1300 01:41:29.720 --> 01:41:38.239 the really the uh, the Cold War was won and 1301 01:41:38.439 --> 01:41:42.359 lost by data and the ability to correctly interpret data. 1302 01:41:44.039 --> 01:41:45.720 I mean you can say that about like any modern war. 1303 01:41:45.880 --> 01:41:49.279 But when you consider that, you know, the world that's 1304 01:41:49.319 --> 01:41:52.319 settled into this kind of strategic paradigm where by the 1305 01:41:52.920 --> 01:41:56.960 triggering of the primary conflict diad could lead to general 1306 01:41:57.079 --> 01:42:04.800 nuclear war. But even in times of peace, you know, 1307 01:42:05.720 --> 01:42:08.840 like a state, but some sort of state between like 1308 01:42:09.000 --> 01:42:11.880 war and peace was always a foot, so that like, 1309 01:42:12.359 --> 01:42:16.000 you know, genuine peace as it had existed prior to 1310 01:42:16.960 --> 01:42:19.880 you know, nineteen forty one in this country could not 1311 01:42:20.039 --> 01:42:23.600 be said to exist. Like the idea that executive decisions 1312 01:42:23.760 --> 01:42:26.279 you know, should be subjected to public scrutiny or availed 1313 01:42:26.279 --> 01:42:29.560 to some sort of like plebiscite, like actual or metaphorical, 1314 01:42:29.600 --> 01:42:35.840 I mean, is laughable. But the uh, and just to 1315 01:42:36.159 --> 01:42:40.279 the way that this was managed again for context contra Nixon. 1316 01:42:40.680 --> 01:42:45.600 You know when when when people assert that, you know, 1317 01:42:45.720 --> 01:42:48.520 the assembly of something like of a of a team 1318 01:42:48.600 --> 01:42:54.239 like the White House plumbers itself constitutes overreach. You know, 1319 01:42:54.439 --> 01:42:58.039 FDR created his own special intelligence unit, was responsible only 1320 01:42:58.079 --> 01:43:02.039 to him. They had a staff of eleven men. It 1321 01:43:02.159 --> 01:43:05.399 was financed by this what was called the Special Emergency 1322 01:43:05.479 --> 01:43:09.960 Fund of the State Department. He poached the members of 1323 01:43:10.079 --> 01:43:14.800 it from Hoover's FBI, which at that point it's it's 1324 01:43:14.880 --> 01:43:17.000 it's mandate, it's kind of like come into its own, 1325 01:43:17.640 --> 01:43:20.399 you know, like FBI men are now carrying guns. You know, 1326 01:43:20.439 --> 01:43:23.039 they had like real arrest power, you know, they were 1327 01:43:23.079 --> 01:43:25.399 real cops by that point, as well as in the 1328 01:43:25.439 --> 01:43:28.640 I R. S. And uh, you know, there was also 1329 01:43:28.720 --> 01:43:30.960 some there was a coterie from the Department of Justice, 1330 01:43:31.039 --> 01:43:35.520 you know, like lawyers. They kind of finessed everything and 1331 01:43:36.319 --> 01:43:41.159 you know, to make sure that the verbial is we 1332 01:43:41.279 --> 01:43:44.239 died and teas were crossed. But rosel openly, he openly 1333 01:43:44.359 --> 01:43:46.880 used this this intelligence unit to get dirt in his 1334 01:43:47.000 --> 01:43:51.479 enemies and harass them, especially the press and especially businessmen 1335 01:43:51.800 --> 01:43:55.760 you know, like Robert McCormick who were his enemies. You know, 1336 01:43:55.840 --> 01:44:00.640 he tapped their phones. He'd have them followed, you know, 1337 01:44:00.800 --> 01:44:06.359 like uh he'd he uh, he'd have he'd have been 1338 01:44:06.399 --> 01:44:10.319 indicted on for tax evasion, you know, based on trumped 1339 01:44:10.399 --> 01:44:14.239 up allegations and you know, things that constitute like simple 1340 01:44:14.239 --> 01:44:19.279 accounting errors. You know. He he made persistent efforts to 1341 01:44:19.359 --> 01:44:23.720 get The New York Times indicted for tax fraud, which failed. 1342 01:44:23.800 --> 01:44:25.520 But I mean they were tied up in litigation and 1343 01:44:25.680 --> 01:44:31.000 being you know, served with civil and criminal subpoenas you know, 1344 01:44:31.119 --> 01:44:33.000 for years on end. I mean that's you know, and 1345 01:44:33.079 --> 01:44:36.399 this was all this, this was all very above board. 1346 01:44:36.960 --> 01:44:42.920 You know. He uh he used his intel Roosevelt special 1347 01:44:42.960 --> 01:44:46.279 intelligence unit. It bugged the room, the hotel rooms of 1348 01:44:46.359 --> 01:44:49.359 his cabinet. It even bugged Missus Roosevelt's the hotel room. 1349 01:44:49.640 --> 01:44:51.560 Not because he was like spying and Missus Roosevelt, but 1350 01:44:51.600 --> 01:44:53.680 because people when they talked to her obviously thought that 1351 01:44:53.720 --> 01:44:56.159 they were speaking or in confidence, and he also wanted 1352 01:44:56.199 --> 01:44:58.560 to hear it like the other wives were saying, you know, 1353 01:44:58.800 --> 01:45:08.560 the this kind of personal espionage against uh, you know 1354 01:45:08.600 --> 01:45:13.560 again against ones, you know, fellows as well as adverse series. 1355 01:45:15.000 --> 01:45:16.560 I mean, nothing like that was in our way in 1356 01:45:16.560 --> 01:45:19.039 the Knicks administration whatever. You and I've got no louses 1357 01:45:19.039 --> 01:45:21.479 about Nixon, but I mean that's like, that's one step 1358 01:45:21.520 --> 01:45:24.960 beyond you know, dirty tricks and in the business of 1359 01:45:25.000 --> 01:45:27.319 modern politics, you know I say modern. I mean, you know, 1360 01:45:27.359 --> 01:45:29.960 from the twentieth century onward. I mean, have you has 1361 01:45:30.000 --> 01:45:32.920 anyone ever read a book about the gross overreach of FDR. 1362 01:45:33.119 --> 01:45:36.399 I mean not like not not like Fleming's book. I 1363 01:45:36.479 --> 01:45:38.720 mean in terms of you know, his special intelligence unit, 1364 01:45:39.840 --> 01:45:41.840 you know, likening them to the White House plumbers or 1365 01:45:42.279 --> 01:45:44.920 I mean No, it doesn't exist. People don't even think 1366 01:45:44.960 --> 01:45:51.720 in those terms. You know. Again, it's the uh Truman 1367 01:45:52.079 --> 01:45:59.600 like like was basically it was basically ran like a 1368 01:45:59.680 --> 01:46:05.520 clean White house. That's not just a myth. They basically 1369 01:46:05.600 --> 01:46:10.760 avoided these kinds of like domestic clandestine dealings. But it, 1370 01:46:11.039 --> 01:46:15.880 uh frankly like Eisenhower was a foregone conclusion. He was 1371 01:46:15.920 --> 01:46:20.039 gonna have two terms. And Eisenhower also he basically there's 1372 01:46:20.119 --> 01:46:28.720 never been there. There's never there's never been after the 1373 01:46:28.800 --> 01:46:30.960 war between the States, like a president who had the 1374 01:46:31.000 --> 01:46:33.399 kind of mandate that Eisenhower did. Like it's kind of 1375 01:46:33.439 --> 01:46:37.600 like across the aisle, just an agreement, you know, and 1376 01:46:37.720 --> 01:46:40.439 then that odorate much to the emergent kind of global 1377 01:46:40.520 --> 01:46:43.680 system and everything else. But my point is that like 1378 01:46:43.760 --> 01:46:46.680 Eisenhower is an odd case. You know, you can't extrapolate 1379 01:46:46.800 --> 01:46:48.479 much from what he did or did not do in 1380 01:46:48.520 --> 01:46:52.920 this regard generally about you know, the exigency's faced by 1381 01:46:52.960 --> 01:46:58.560 a modern executive, you know. And of course Kennedy himself 1382 01:47:01.079 --> 01:47:05.560 was uh, the all time king of dirty tricks and intrigues. 1383 01:47:07.479 --> 01:47:12.239 I'm not I'm not a Kennedy basher, despite what people say. 1384 01:47:12.279 --> 01:47:18.720 A lot I've actually made no secret of it that 1385 01:47:19.760 --> 01:47:21.760 I think he had tremendous balls, and the way he 1386 01:47:22.399 --> 01:47:25.000 managed the sixty two crisis, standing up not with the 1387 01:47:25.079 --> 01:47:29.399 cruise chift, but also the Curtis Leamay, and you know, 1388 01:47:29.520 --> 01:47:33.920 his own war cabinet when he was just a wet 1389 01:47:33.960 --> 01:47:38.920 behind the ears, you know, rich Man's son in the 1390 01:47:38.960 --> 01:47:41.800 eyes of most people. He was a real man. He 1391 01:47:41.920 --> 01:47:47.840 wasn't a plunk. But JFK stated no on certain terms 1392 01:47:49.680 --> 01:47:53.119 that uh, one of the chiefer grants was not having 1393 01:47:53.199 --> 01:47:58.119 made his brother RFK had a CIA, you know, to 1394 01:47:58.199 --> 01:48:03.279 bring it under family control too, because his notion, uh, 1395 01:48:04.760 --> 01:48:10.399 like Roosevelts, was to know everything. You know, the he'd 1396 01:48:10.479 --> 01:48:15.560 uh he'd been privy very much to the reading which 1397 01:48:15.560 --> 01:48:20.920 she was privy to the assassination of uh of a 1398 01:48:21.159 --> 01:48:26.239 DM is it's questionable obviously, like DM it'd been is 1399 01:48:26.279 --> 01:48:30.800 like one time. Ally, subsequent historians like to claim that 1400 01:48:30.880 --> 01:48:33.680 like Kennedy knew nothing about this, and there's a CIA, 1401 01:48:34.000 --> 01:48:36.880 you know, being atack things like this rogue element. And 1402 01:48:36.920 --> 01:48:38.680 then of course these fools also like to you know, 1403 01:48:38.720 --> 01:48:40.279 they got this whole they got this whole fantasy that 1404 01:48:40.359 --> 01:48:44.000 the CIA killed Kennedy. But I'm not even that touched 1405 01:48:44.000 --> 01:48:47.319 to that because it's fucking retarded. But the but in 1406 01:48:47.399 --> 01:48:50.680 the case of DM, the point is, like Kennedy knew 1407 01:48:50.680 --> 01:48:53.039 it was gonna happen. He was very much insinuated into it. 1408 01:48:53.640 --> 01:48:56.319 Whether he formally objected to it, you know, but then 1409 01:48:56.600 --> 01:48:58.960 you know, went ahead and ordered it or allowed it 1410 01:48:59.119 --> 01:49:04.359 rather by actor omission as a necessary evil, or whether 1411 01:49:04.359 --> 01:49:06.640 he was one hundred percent behind it doesn't matter. This 1412 01:49:06.800 --> 01:49:09.319 idea that like Kennedy was like running this clean administration 1413 01:49:09.479 --> 01:49:13.159 and had no idea that you know, elements within the 1414 01:49:13.199 --> 01:49:19.239 executive branch were killing people. That's nonsense. He had uh 1415 01:49:22.640 --> 01:49:24.479 where where his brother was at It was the Department 1416 01:49:24.520 --> 01:49:32.119 of Justice. Obviously in sixty two. These US steel executives 1417 01:49:32.119 --> 01:49:38.239 who are parenially perennially threatening strikes and opposing administration policies 1418 01:49:38.359 --> 01:49:41.399 related to the terrorf regime, like uh, head of them 1419 01:49:41.399 --> 01:49:46.760 have harassed with subpoenas and pre dawn and search warrants. 1420 01:49:47.239 --> 01:49:51.039 There were dog agents, n FBI man you know, rated 1421 01:49:51.079 --> 01:49:53.399 their houses, you know, just like family men, you know, 1422 01:49:53.479 --> 01:49:55.720 like in pre dawn hours, you know, just to just 1423 01:49:55.800 --> 01:50:01.199 to terrorize them, you know. In the Kennedy brothers, you know, 1424 01:50:01.359 --> 01:50:09.880 long before Martin Luther King totally ran a foul of 1425 01:50:10.159 --> 01:50:16.439 uh you know Jager whoever in LBJ. You know, half 1426 01:50:16.479 --> 01:50:22.840 a decade later, Jeff get RFK didn't trust him a bit. 1427 01:50:24.920 --> 01:50:27.319 You know, they had him put under surveillance, you know, 1428 01:50:27.439 --> 01:50:30.399 they was it was the Kennedy brothers who you know 1429 01:50:30.560 --> 01:50:35.680 first uh became aware of his uh a King's problems 1430 01:50:35.720 --> 01:50:39.359 with females and his like sex addiction. They were the 1431 01:50:39.439 --> 01:50:42.000 ones who you know, first documented this by having these 1432 01:50:42.800 --> 01:50:45.600 liaisons with prostitutes and other women that he was compulsed 1433 01:50:45.640 --> 01:50:48.079 of waving sex with, you know, like recorded and documented. 1434 01:50:48.640 --> 01:50:51.720 You know, I mean it's this wasn't this wasn't Jay, 1435 01:50:52.000 --> 01:50:54.239 This wasn't like mean racist Jadrew whoever? Are doing it 1436 01:50:54.319 --> 01:50:58.680 for the fun of it, you know, that's they uh 1437 01:51:00.079 --> 01:51:03.239 nass and right wing media, you know, like birth society 1438 01:51:03.359 --> 01:51:09.079 types and these kind of nascent uh people like Connie 1439 01:51:09.119 --> 01:51:14.560 McGinley who put out in the tabloid common sense, you know, 1440 01:51:14.680 --> 01:51:19.439 and guys like uh you know, these are the guys 1441 01:51:19.520 --> 01:51:21.600 like Tommy Metzker were associating with back when it was 1442 01:51:21.640 --> 01:51:26.119 like a klansman. They were trying to uh you know, 1443 01:51:26.279 --> 01:51:31.479 like as uh as media became more more ubiquitous, and 1444 01:51:32.119 --> 01:51:36.279 some of the censorship regime on radio loosened. You know, 1445 01:51:36.319 --> 01:51:42.560 they were trying to insinuate themselves into into the discursive 1446 01:51:42.640 --> 01:51:45.560 media again like father Coughlin had, you know, the Kennedy 1447 01:51:45.600 --> 01:51:48.239 shut that down again, like using the weaponized I R 1448 01:51:48.399 --> 01:52:04.520 S and other things. When uh, subsequently, Yeah, the first 1449 01:52:04.600 --> 01:52:12.039 big U the first big scandal that LBJ found himself 1450 01:52:12.079 --> 01:52:21.119 embroiled in not long after was uh, the Bobby Baker scandal. 1451 01:52:21.560 --> 01:52:30.560 Baker was uh, he was political advisor to LBJ having 1452 01:52:30.600 --> 01:52:33.439 started this is the Senate secretary of the majority leader. 1453 01:52:34.680 --> 01:52:40.760 Like what Baker's job was, and Uh, Lbj's fingerprints were 1454 01:52:40.800 --> 01:52:45.439 all over this. He was implicated in arranging liaison as 1455 01:52:45.479 --> 01:52:50.760 with prostitutes between soft money donors as well as UH, 1456 01:52:51.439 --> 01:52:53.680 as well as as well as congressmen and the House 1457 01:52:53.720 --> 01:52:57.439 representatives whose votes he needed on government contracts and other things. 1458 01:53:00.239 --> 01:53:02.880 And like when this broke, lbj's enemy is gonna certainly 1459 01:53:02.960 --> 01:53:10.640 like a bunch of vultures. LBJ uh asked Baker, what 1460 01:53:10.760 --> 01:53:13.680 kind of dirt you know we had on anybody in 1461 01:53:13.760 --> 01:53:17.600 I R S. Baker came up with it. LBJ told them, like, 1462 01:53:17.720 --> 01:53:19.720 you know, you're gonna indict these people or after me 1463 01:53:19.960 --> 01:53:23.000 or guess what you know, like you know, your wife, 1464 01:53:23.079 --> 01:53:26.720 your family, the National press, you know, everybody at i RS, 1465 01:53:26.960 --> 01:53:28.880 like everybody in Capitol Hill. You know they're gonna they're 1466 01:53:28.880 --> 01:53:30.800 gonna find out about this, you know, like little deliance 1467 01:53:30.840 --> 01:53:34.000 you had with you know, with this prostitute. And we've 1468 01:53:34.079 --> 01:53:37.399 got the receipts to prove it. I mean, like people 1469 01:53:37.479 --> 01:53:40.359 knew about this stuff, Okay, I mean it's it's this 1470 01:53:40.520 --> 01:53:44.920 idea that you know, I mean, what did anybody was it? 1471 01:53:45.520 --> 01:53:47.920 We're people gonna impeach the Kennedy's for spying on Martin 1472 01:53:48.000 --> 01:53:52.039 Luther King where people gonna impeach LBJ, you know for basically, uh, 1473 01:53:53.079 --> 01:53:55.399 for basically keeping Bobby Baker rounds a pimp in order 1474 01:53:55.439 --> 01:53:59.439 to get dirt on his enemies. Like no, no, because 1475 01:53:59.439 --> 01:54:02.800 that that's k But four guys breaking into a hotel 1476 01:54:03.039 --> 01:54:06.760 is is the equivalent of like, you know, murdering a 1477 01:54:06.880 --> 01:54:10.279 child or something apparently, like according to the American like 1478 01:54:10.520 --> 01:54:17.399 moral code of Capitol Hill, and frankly too until the 1479 01:54:17.920 --> 01:54:22.239 until the Nixon era, like the LBJ Nixon era, I 1480 01:54:22.359 --> 01:54:27.000 kind of consider him in the same vein for reasons 1481 01:54:27.039 --> 01:54:29.439 I think are clear by now, not because the two 1482 01:54:29.439 --> 01:54:32.680 men amen thing in common, but I believe we got to. 1483 01:54:32.880 --> 01:54:35.920 I believe it was established. Like why I consider it 1484 01:54:36.199 --> 01:54:42.079 in those terms, the media was pretty selective and the way, 1485 01:54:42.720 --> 01:54:45.439 the degree which in the way it publicized presidential wrongdoing, 1486 01:54:46.520 --> 01:54:49.279 and for no other reason then, because it was understood that, 1487 01:54:50.439 --> 01:54:54.039 you know, kind of the lynchpin of American national security 1488 01:54:55.520 --> 01:55:00.279 amidst the Cold War was the presidency, okay, and even 1489 01:55:00.359 --> 01:55:04.960 before that, during the Roosevelt and Wilson administrations and the 1490 01:55:05.039 --> 01:55:10.439 Hoover and Hardy administrations, it was understood that contained with 1491 01:55:10.520 --> 01:55:12.800 an Article two, it's not just a great it's not 1492 01:55:12.920 --> 01:55:15.800 just an express delegation of great power in warr in 1493 01:55:15.840 --> 01:55:20.920 peace terms. It's not just a way of structuring the 1494 01:55:21.079 --> 01:55:25.239 government so as to confer upon the only nationally elected representative, 1495 01:55:26.239 --> 01:55:31.039 you know, a kind of authority above and beyond that 1496 01:55:31.199 --> 01:55:35.399 enjoyed by the judiciary or by the Senate. But there's 1497 01:55:35.399 --> 01:55:39.399 an understanding that the president is a prime symbol, okay, 1498 01:55:39.720 --> 01:55:43.800 And in America, you know, it's like, okay, like white 1499 01:55:43.840 --> 01:55:47.039 Christians shouldn't be shouldn't be worshiping you know, you know, 1500 01:55:47.079 --> 01:55:51.319 a high office or something, or treating elected official dum 1501 01:55:51.479 --> 01:55:54.239 like their kings. But at the same time, you know, 1502 01:55:54.359 --> 01:55:57.960 there's there's got to be a certain respect afforded to 1503 01:55:58.000 --> 01:56:00.600 the office the chief executive like other was the officer 1504 01:56:00.600 --> 01:56:02.840 is in fulfilling its function, and which is why you 1505 01:56:02.880 --> 01:56:05.880 gotta be very careful about what what kind of man 1506 01:56:06.119 --> 01:56:10.159 you know you installed in the office. Okay, So there 1507 01:56:10.239 --> 01:56:14.760 was a basic understanding that attacking the presidency in a 1508 01:56:14.840 --> 01:56:17.239 in a kind of a in a truly dedicated on 1509 01:56:17.359 --> 01:56:21.039 going capacity would very much is throwing a baby out 1510 01:56:21.079 --> 01:56:29.800 with the bath order. Okay. I mean the fact that 1511 01:56:31.159 --> 01:56:38.479 I mean Kennedy. When Kennedy was president, he he shared 1512 01:56:38.520 --> 01:56:41.239 a mistress with Sam g and Conna like Kennedy probably 1513 01:56:41.399 --> 01:56:45.239 was a sex addict. Kennedy was drug dependent. He wasn't 1514 01:56:45.279 --> 01:56:47.159 doing drugs the party. I mean it was he was 1515 01:56:47.199 --> 01:56:51.039 in terrible health. And you know he he had a 1516 01:56:51.159 --> 01:56:56.840 doctor not unlike doctor Morrell was the hitler who uh 1517 01:56:58.039 --> 01:57:00.720 basically like made sure that Kennedy had like whatever drugs 1518 01:57:00.760 --> 01:57:02.760 in the system had to be there from the function 1519 01:57:02.880 --> 01:57:05.199 and get through the day. You know. I mean, if 1520 01:57:05.239 --> 01:57:10.399 somebody at the National media wanted to ruin Kennedy, they 1521 01:57:10.439 --> 01:57:12.079 could have done it in an instant, which is what 1522 01:57:12.319 --> 01:57:14.279 was another reason. It's totally retarded, and we will claim 1523 01:57:14.319 --> 01:57:16.359 that that Kennedy was whacked. Like you want to get 1524 01:57:16.439 --> 01:57:19.199 rid of Kennedy, like follow him around on a Friday night, 1525 01:57:19.720 --> 01:57:22.159 bribe one of his secret services detail, you know, and 1526 01:57:22.279 --> 01:57:24.159 like take you take take a photo of him getting 1527 01:57:24.159 --> 01:57:26.600 shot up with eight different drugs by his doctor, or 1528 01:57:26.680 --> 01:57:29.079 you know, like having a threesome with like two black hookers. 1529 01:57:29.399 --> 01:57:33.800 You know, no more, mister Kennedy. But you know, the 1530 01:57:34.039 --> 01:57:41.560 uh it's striking, and I've i've I've literally spent hours 1531 01:57:44.439 --> 01:57:50.000 perusing like the main large market newspapers of the day, 1532 01:57:51.600 --> 01:57:53.880 you know, the New York Post, the Wall Street Journal, 1533 01:57:54.680 --> 01:58:01.720 the Chicago Tribune, you know, the La Times. It's striking. 1534 01:58:02.359 --> 01:58:07.479 How even during even in miss presidential scandals again like 1535 01:58:07.560 --> 01:58:13.159 going back, you know to Wilson, there's like neary a 1536 01:58:13.319 --> 01:58:16.479 peep you know about the kind of bad character of 1537 01:58:16.520 --> 01:58:23.079 the president or any like ad hominem really at all. 1538 01:58:24.680 --> 01:58:31.199 And then come Nixon. This day after day after day, 1539 01:58:31.840 --> 01:58:38.199 it uh, this this like just continual invective you know 1540 01:58:38.319 --> 01:58:41.960 against Nixon, you know, just just just non stop. That 1541 01:58:42.119 --> 01:58:44.720 was like the lead story like every day and every 1542 01:58:44.800 --> 01:58:50.119 paper you know, it's like I said, it was, it 1543 01:58:50.239 --> 01:58:54.319 was it was the it was Trump one point zero. 1544 01:58:55.479 --> 01:59:01.000 It's fascinating. I guess that's part of aging, is being 1545 01:59:01.000 --> 01:59:06.239 able to witness the cyclical patterns of the sociological phenomenon. 1546 01:59:06.399 --> 01:59:10.399 Psychosocial phenomenon at scale kind of emerged a high relief, 1547 01:59:10.520 --> 01:59:14.119 but it's not usually this clear. 1548 01:59:15.000 --> 01:59:20.520 You know, is this the beginning of where everybody, every leader, 1549 01:59:20.720 --> 01:59:25.119 now everything is going to be judged on morality, Where 1550 01:59:25.359 --> 01:59:31.640 the where the greatest, the greatest criticism that's going to 1551 01:59:31.680 --> 01:59:34.560 be leveled against somebody is that they're a bad person. 1552 01:59:35.880 --> 01:59:38.399 I think that's part of it. Yeah, but a certain 1553 01:59:38.479 --> 01:59:41.439 kind of bad person, you know, like that that's all point. 1554 01:59:41.680 --> 01:59:46.840 Like you know, there was there there was men in 1555 01:59:47.000 --> 01:59:51.279 high office who are prone devices that everybody knew about, 1556 01:59:52.640 --> 01:59:54.319 and even when it was reported on, it was kind 1557 01:59:54.359 --> 01:59:57.239 of soft balled and people didn't react the way they 1558 01:59:57.600 --> 02:00:01.760 people didn't react way they did to you know, uh, 1559 02:00:02.640 --> 02:00:06.680 this constant invective against Nixon or Trump. So yeah, that's 1560 02:00:06.760 --> 02:00:12.479 part of it. But it's the president being this kind 1561 02:00:12.520 --> 02:00:19.640 of stand in for a boogeyman imperial executive who's some 1562 02:00:19.800 --> 02:00:23.560 kind of you know, paternal figure gone wrong. That was 1563 02:00:23.640 --> 02:00:25.640 very much. That's what I do agree with Paul Johnson 1564 02:00:25.720 --> 02:00:31.239 on people developed this this this kind of just like 1565 02:00:31.439 --> 02:00:36.479 disdain for authority, like quah authority, not like real rebels 1566 02:00:36.560 --> 02:00:40.000 or something, but I mean like actual authority, like where 1567 02:00:40.000 --> 02:00:42.560 it should be vested in something like the presidency. Like 1568 02:00:42.680 --> 02:00:45.439 this became like scary and bad, you know. But like 1569 02:00:45.520 --> 02:00:48.000 these same people though, like howtow to the police or 1570 02:00:48.119 --> 02:00:51.560 howtow to a COVID mandate like immediately, but this idea 1571 02:00:51.680 --> 02:00:56.960 that like, let me just say thing like why the 1572 02:00:57.479 --> 02:01:00.520 media has this like hysterical fixation with declaring that laborer 1573 02:01:00.600 --> 02:01:04.600 Putin is like an evil evil man like Labry Putin's 1574 02:01:06.039 --> 02:01:10.159 he's a he's a moderate liberal who basically acts like 1575 02:01:10.520 --> 02:01:14.560 any Russian executive would with more restraint, you know, like 1576 02:01:14.720 --> 02:01:18.439 because he but but he's he's like an evil man 1577 02:01:18.640 --> 02:01:24.239 because in Russia there's you know, Russia doesn't just like 1578 02:01:24.399 --> 02:01:27.159 rotate actors and pretend like you know, the executive is 1579 02:01:28.920 --> 02:01:32.960 these kinds of uh, you know, there's not this rotation 1580 02:01:33.119 --> 02:01:36.079 of of like frontmen you know, like behind like a 1581 02:01:36.159 --> 02:01:38.720 real executive like in America, like like Putin actually is 1582 02:01:38.760 --> 02:01:41.439 the president something. But there's this idea that like that's 1583 02:01:41.560 --> 02:01:45.039 scary year, that constitutes some kind of like authoritarian overreach 1584 02:01:45.159 --> 02:01:48.039 or some kind of threat to people's preferred way of living. 1585 02:01:49.000 --> 02:01:50.319 I think it's I think it owes a lot to 1586 02:01:50.399 --> 02:01:52.560 symbolic psychology, which a lot of things do in this 1587 02:01:52.640 --> 02:01:55.560 country and just and probably elsewhere too, when I don't 1588 02:01:55.600 --> 02:01:57.199 live in other countries, so I can't speak to that 1589 02:01:57.520 --> 02:02:02.119 and with as much certainty. But yeah, it's the interplay 1590 02:02:02.119 --> 02:02:07.279 of symbolic psychology of you know, the kind of the 1591 02:02:07.439 --> 02:02:09.960 kind of collapse of authority by future shock and kind 1592 02:02:09.960 --> 02:02:13.039 of the weakening of social bonds to facilitate authority. You know. 1593 02:02:13.119 --> 02:02:18.159 The capitalis the capitalization on those fears and the kind 1594 02:02:18.199 --> 02:02:22.079 of perverting of the form of those fears such that 1595 02:02:22.319 --> 02:02:25.359 you know, it appeals the you know, the kind of 1596 02:02:25.439 --> 02:02:27.840 hoy peloy who are increasingly kind of like sleevish and 1597 02:02:28.439 --> 02:02:32.880 and resentful. It's almost it's. 1598 02:02:33.720 --> 02:02:36.720 It's weird because it seems like people nowadays really only 1599 02:02:36.840 --> 02:02:45.479 want to really only listen or respect the president when 1600 02:02:45.520 --> 02:02:46.560 there's a state of exception. 1601 02:02:48.960 --> 02:02:50.520 Yeah, I think, yeah, I think that's part of it. 1602 02:02:52.000 --> 02:02:57.159 It's but yeah, like I said, it's something i'd have 1603 02:02:57.319 --> 02:03:00.520 to I have to. I have to think about it 1604 02:03:00.640 --> 02:03:04.520 and like organize my thoughts to convey a really concise 1605 02:03:05.479 --> 02:03:07.840 view of like what the source of it is. I've 1606 02:03:07.840 --> 02:03:12.600 thought about it before, and you can. It's kind of 1607 02:03:12.640 --> 02:03:15.119 like the last It's sort of it's sort of like 1608 02:03:15.199 --> 02:03:20.920 the last instinctive or intrinsic structure of authority that falls. 1609 02:03:20.960 --> 02:03:27.000 That's one of the reasons why, like Hobbes, Hobbs ontology, 1610 02:03:27.119 --> 02:03:30.880 Hobbs sociological and political ontology is absurd in terms of 1611 02:03:30.960 --> 02:03:35.920 how humans actually live, But what remains intact is Leviathan, 1612 02:03:36.520 --> 02:03:44.039 you know, because the patriarchal authority of the executive over 1613 02:03:44.119 --> 02:03:49.079 his domain is absolute and unimpeachable. I'm not making a pun, 1614 02:03:49.159 --> 02:03:51.359 I mean quite literally. You know. Why is that the 1615 02:03:51.439 --> 02:03:57.600 last psychological structure to come under attack or at least 1616 02:03:57.640 --> 02:04:02.399 to be effectively deteriorated by design? Well, I mean that's why. 1617 02:04:03.039 --> 02:04:06.199 But this also brings up there's also reasons questions about, 1618 02:04:06.960 --> 02:04:10.560 you know, the secularization of concepts of God, you know, 1619 02:04:10.680 --> 02:04:15.199 and how executive action in a modern state takes on 1620 02:04:15.239 --> 02:04:20.800 the trappings of like literally miraculous events, suggestive divide intervention, 1621 02:04:21.680 --> 02:04:27.239 not like literally, but in the symbolic mind and for 1622 02:04:27.319 --> 02:04:32.960 all practical purposes. Symbolic psychological occurrences are are real occurrences. 1623 02:04:33.199 --> 02:04:37.239 But again that's kind of outside the scope. I'm raml 1624 02:04:37.239 --> 02:04:41.000 like you're not. But it's a when you can come 1625 02:04:41.039 --> 02:04:46.920 back to that question when I'm more like folks like 1626 02:04:47.000 --> 02:04:51.239 one of the less like discreetly focused on the subject 1627 02:04:51.319 --> 02:05:00.640 at hand, the uh, but also lowered to your point, 1628 02:05:00.760 --> 02:05:03.359 and I mean to what we've been talking about the 1629 02:05:03.520 --> 02:05:09.279 entire of the hour. Not only it became someone impossible 1630 02:05:09.520 --> 02:05:13.880 for policy were to be reduced to discourse and polemic 1631 02:05:14.000 --> 02:05:21.000 and catch phrases anymore, you know. Prisoner Lash made that 1632 02:05:21.039 --> 02:05:22.960 point a lot too like about the Vietnam War. One 1633 02:05:23.000 --> 02:05:25.640 of the reasons so little is understood about it, aside 1634 02:05:25.680 --> 02:05:30.359 from the bad faith in trendic to the people who 1635 02:05:30.399 --> 02:05:33.760 are trying to sabotauze the war effort. You can't explain 1636 02:05:33.840 --> 02:05:36.600 something like the Vietnam conflict in five sentences, and you 1637 02:05:36.680 --> 02:05:38.640 can't reduce it to being a good war or a 1638 02:05:38.720 --> 02:05:41.199 bad war, or like we should just do more to win. There. 1639 02:05:42.439 --> 02:05:46.720 There's a complexity here. There's nuances, and it's not saying 1640 02:05:46.760 --> 02:05:50.359 they can really be debated at policy level other than 1641 02:05:50.439 --> 02:05:54.720 between men who truly understood, you know, all the variables 1642 02:05:55.000 --> 02:05:59.119 and the strategic implications beyond the battle theater of those variables, 1643 02:06:00.000 --> 02:06:04.920 as well as the historical implications of victory defeat in 1644 02:06:05.039 --> 02:06:11.399 that theater. You know. So as a journalism could no 1645 02:06:11.479 --> 02:06:15.479 longer really kind of capture the essence of policy decisions 1646 02:06:15.960 --> 02:06:18.680 and what went into those decisions, and it became less 1647 02:06:18.680 --> 02:06:21.359 and less capable to kind of structure the world according 1648 02:06:21.399 --> 02:06:27.560 to these sort of polemical devices. It just it just 1649 02:06:27.600 --> 02:06:30.000 simply lowered the standards of the US journalism. You know, 1650 02:06:30.479 --> 02:06:33.239 everything just slowly but surely became a tabloid. You know, 1651 02:06:33.359 --> 02:06:38.439 even those brands and outlets that there tofore had been 1652 02:06:38.520 --> 02:06:41.800 fairly serious and particularly anti Nixon. Well, the way to 1653 02:06:41.840 --> 02:06:45.600 stay alive now is is tabloid and we hate Nixon, 1654 02:06:46.279 --> 02:06:50.119 or you know, splashing across the front page that you know, uh, 1655 02:06:50.800 --> 02:06:54.239 you know, some some like some some snap sort of 1656 02:06:54.560 --> 02:06:57.079 hollderman looking like he's snarling about to strike a reporter, 1657 02:06:57.520 --> 02:07:01.079 you know, saying like you know, with some lurid you know, headline. 1658 02:07:02.119 --> 02:07:04.600 You know, that's what that's what sells papers. And if 1659 02:07:04.640 --> 02:07:06.479 you decide to take that, if you if if one 1660 02:07:06.560 --> 02:07:08.119 had decided to take the high road, or they just 1661 02:07:08.119 --> 02:07:11.600 like wouldn't be in the game, you know, they don't ceremoniously. 1662 02:07:13.279 --> 02:07:16.039 They's one of my ceremonials ceased to exist, you know. 1663 02:07:17.800 --> 02:07:20.600 And even even stuff that was like nominally, even like Midwood, 1664 02:07:20.600 --> 02:07:23.039 stuff that was like nominally kind of like the intellectual alternative. 1665 02:07:23.840 --> 02:07:25.560 Look at like look at like old firing line with 1666 02:07:25.560 --> 02:07:27.920 William Buckley. I mean it's note of the fact. I 1667 02:07:27.960 --> 02:07:30.560 mean he was he was an up two's prick. But 1668 02:07:31.600 --> 02:07:34.560 you know, even that, it's like it's like, okay, so 1669 02:07:34.680 --> 02:07:37.079 gas Buckley he talks about they'll give like a five 1670 02:07:37.119 --> 02:07:39.520 minute summation of something instead of a three sentence summation. 1671 02:07:40.079 --> 02:07:41.960 But it's still you know, the same kind of dumb 1672 02:07:42.039 --> 02:07:46.239 down slogan earring, you know, just like a little bit 1673 02:07:46.319 --> 02:07:48.960 more uh just like a little bit more like meat 1674 02:07:49.000 --> 02:07:53.079 to it, at least in terms of stylistic convention, but 1675 02:07:53.239 --> 02:07:57.760 no more like intellectual nuance, you know it the uh, 1676 02:07:58.760 --> 02:08:02.720 this idea of you know, the newsreader as you know 1677 02:08:02.800 --> 02:08:05.319 kind of like the arbiter of policy, you know, like 1678 02:08:05.439 --> 02:08:10.079 owing to you know, his participation, you know, as the 1679 02:08:10.199 --> 02:08:14.800 target audience of this this cursive process whereby you know, 1680 02:08:14.880 --> 02:08:18.880 we arrive at the truth. You know, like this like 1681 02:08:18.920 --> 02:08:21.640 American discursive space is like, you know, it's like some 1682 02:08:21.800 --> 02:08:25.119 giant like lyceum, like maintained by Plato or something like. 1683 02:08:25.159 --> 02:08:27.800 It's I mean that that's that's fucking ridiculous. But it 1684 02:08:27.840 --> 02:08:30.880 became even more ridiculous in the twentieth century. You know, 1685 02:08:31.039 --> 02:08:36.760 the and this and this is why this, this is why, 1686 02:08:36.840 --> 02:08:41.720 this other the other things that set the foundation for 1687 02:08:41.840 --> 02:08:45.279 the Nixon coup, you know, like uh, you know, like 1688 02:08:45.359 --> 02:08:47.399 they were like the leading of the Pentagon papers and 1689 02:08:47.560 --> 02:08:53.159 like the demand that you know that the demand that uh, 1690 02:08:53.319 --> 02:09:00.960 the executive opened up proverbial books relating to Vietnam and 1691 02:09:02.720 --> 02:09:08.279 battlefield outcomes and special operations, as well as you know, 1692 02:09:08.439 --> 02:09:12.680 asymmetrical warfare techniques, you know, some of which may or 1693 02:09:12.720 --> 02:09:14.720 may not have been you know, legal according to the 1694 02:09:14.800 --> 02:09:19.640 prevailing paradig I'm the idea that, you know, it was imperative, 1695 02:09:19.880 --> 02:09:23.159 it was morally imperative for these things to be availed 1696 02:09:23.199 --> 02:09:27.680 the journalistic scrutiny or or to uh, you know, brought 1697 02:09:28.119 --> 02:09:32.279 into the purview of the public mind. I mean, that's preposterous. 1698 02:09:32.479 --> 02:09:38.239 Like the I mean, in in pretty much every NATO 1699 02:09:38.479 --> 02:09:41.560 state at that time. I mean exclude like the Buonis 1700 02:09:41.640 --> 02:09:45.039 Republic because they was not was not not a normal 1701 02:09:45.119 --> 02:09:48.640 country and the hostile occupation. But I mean in the 1702 02:09:48.760 --> 02:09:56.239 UK there's there's the Official Secrets Act, you know, which 1703 02:09:56.760 --> 02:10:03.399 obviously like as as as lettered in their system, wouldn't 1704 02:10:03.399 --> 02:10:07.640 pass First Amendment muster, But I mean national security exigencies, 1705 02:10:08.159 --> 02:10:10.439 you know, like are an exception to the First Amendment, 1706 02:10:10.640 --> 02:10:13.520 you know. I mean there's ways to if one were 1707 02:10:13.680 --> 02:10:17.119 to be inclined, if what had been inclined to draft 1708 02:10:17.760 --> 02:10:22.319 a body of law to kind of formally insulate state secrets, 1709 02:10:23.399 --> 02:10:25.560 you know, from the prying eyes of media and from 1710 02:10:25.600 --> 02:10:32.039 the cynical maneuverings of of of parisans. I mean, it 1711 02:10:32.079 --> 02:10:34.760 could have been done. I mean this idea that it 1712 02:10:34.920 --> 02:10:41.560 was just not only not only like more morally wrong, 1713 02:10:41.800 --> 02:10:44.880 but you know, somehow like ali into the American political 1714 02:10:44.960 --> 02:10:49.479 culture to allow for official limb to keep it secrets 1715 02:10:49.640 --> 02:10:57.720 is a posterous The UH and the appearance of the 1716 02:10:57.760 --> 02:11:05.399 appearance of secret material, genuinely eyes only material in newspapers 1717 02:11:06.039 --> 02:11:16.119 like national papers. It shot up spectacularly during Nixon's first 1718 02:11:16.199 --> 02:11:22.640 months in office. The first six months of UH nineteen 1719 02:11:22.680 --> 02:11:31.920 sixty nine, there was a there's there's twenty. There's twenty 1720 02:11:32.000 --> 02:11:41.119 major leaks of documents of from class at INFO circular 1721 02:11:41.439 --> 02:11:47.359 classified memos circulated by the National Security Council, to documents 1722 02:11:47.399 --> 02:11:49.640 transmitted to and from c i A to the White House, 1723 02:11:51.520 --> 02:11:55.640 to Army intelligence files, you know, relating to the conditions 1724 02:11:56.039 --> 02:11:59.960 relating to then XTA had conditions on the ground in Vietnam, uh, 1725 02:12:00.199 --> 02:12:04.600 I mean serious violations and national security. Later that year, 1726 02:12:06.239 --> 02:12:08.840 CIA was so concerned and this is pregates hearings a 1727 02:12:08.880 --> 02:12:13.760 CIA actually still had some cloud. At the end of 1728 02:12:13.880 --> 02:12:17.399 nineteen sixty nine, CIA trained into a White House a 1729 02:12:17.520 --> 02:12:21.399 list of forty five newspaper articles which were regarded as 1730 02:12:22.119 --> 02:12:25.359 serious violations and national security which would have real effect 1731 02:12:25.520 --> 02:12:32.439 on you know, the state of the strategic paradigm potentially 1732 02:12:32.880 --> 02:12:35.800 you know VISA V nuclear secrets, as well as the 1733 02:12:36.399 --> 02:12:42.359 battlefield situation in Southeast Asia, which obviously was still raging, 1734 02:12:44.199 --> 02:12:47.640 and of course the kind of the dear of this. 1735 02:12:48.800 --> 02:12:54.319 It was June thirteenth, seventy one, was when the Pentagon 1736 02:12:54.359 --> 02:12:57.359 what's called the Pentagon Papers dropped in the New York Times. 1737 02:12:58.479 --> 02:13:02.800 It was a seven thousand words survey of America's involvement 1738 02:13:03.319 --> 02:13:09.640 in Southeast Asia, specifically Vietnam, but also Cambodia. Allows from 1739 02:13:09.680 --> 02:13:12.760 the end of World War Two ninety forty six, which 1740 02:13:12.840 --> 02:13:15.359 was when you know, the Vietnam War kicked off, until 1741 02:13:15.479 --> 02:13:20.239 ninety sixty eight. The study had been commissioned by Macnamera, 1742 02:13:21.239 --> 02:13:23.920 you know then when he was you know, Defense secretary 1743 02:13:24.000 --> 02:13:30.119 under Kennedy and Johnson UH and the Joint chiefs of Staff. 1744 02:13:31.279 --> 02:13:35.399 These were top secret documents, okay. It related not just 1745 02:13:35.560 --> 02:13:43.119 to you know, America's overall uh, strategic ambitions in the Orient, 1746 02:13:43.840 --> 02:13:48.359 which had become gonna the key theater as a you know, 1747 02:13:48.399 --> 02:13:51.560 a strategic nuclear terms as we talked about, as well 1748 02:13:51.600 --> 02:13:58.640 as in you know, conventional terms. It uh, it dealt 1749 02:13:58.640 --> 02:14:02.760 with the American can forces at the operational level and 1750 02:14:02.920 --> 02:14:04.960 like what you know kind of like the what like 1751 02:14:05.279 --> 02:14:09.439 emerging battle doctrine was It dealt with like under what 1752 02:14:09.600 --> 02:14:13.760 conditions America would consider deploying nuclear weapons to a secondary theater. 1753 02:14:15.439 --> 02:14:18.880 I mean, this was catastrophic, okay. The author of the 1754 02:14:19.000 --> 02:14:22.520 leak was Daniel Ellsberg. He was a four year old 1755 02:14:22.640 --> 02:14:26.560 Rand Corporation employee who'd been a researcher on the study, 1756 02:14:27.359 --> 02:14:31.600 and he's stolen all these documents, and when the administration 1757 02:14:32.199 --> 02:14:38.039 and the FBI discovered the source, they were convinced the 1758 02:14:38.039 --> 02:14:40.600 guy was a double agent because they're like, if there's 1759 02:14:40.600 --> 02:14:45.960 analyzed by KGB experts, not only could jeopardize basically an 1760 02:14:46.119 --> 02:14:56.600 entire range of CIA operational codes, practice and operations, but 1761 02:14:56.720 --> 02:15:01.800 it also it also l bear basically you know, like 1762 02:15:02.439 --> 02:15:07.439 how America derives its own intelligence, you know, from Warsaw 1763 02:15:07.560 --> 02:15:13.079 packed elements, you know, the method that uses to try 1764 02:15:13.159 --> 02:15:15.920 and turn these people, you know, and that information on 1765 02:15:16.039 --> 02:15:18.720 like American surveillance devices, which at that point, you know, 1766 02:15:18.960 --> 02:15:24.359 was was not readily available data, you know, I mean 1767 02:15:24.439 --> 02:15:27.479 this was so the reasoning of the reasoning of the 1768 02:15:27.600 --> 02:15:32.119 Pentagon and other people in the Nicks administration was that 1769 02:15:33.199 --> 02:15:35.600 if this guy's not KGB and trying to cover his 1770 02:15:35.680 --> 02:15:38.760 ass by going public, so doesn't up show up dead, 1771 02:15:39.199 --> 02:15:41.359 It's like what's his angle? Like why is he doing this? 1772 02:15:42.279 --> 02:15:45.039 You know, like the fact that this guy would basically 1773 02:15:45.079 --> 02:15:49.359 be so fucking deranged he's gonna like essentially like burn 1774 02:15:49.479 --> 02:15:53.319 down the American national security establishment to stick it to 1775 02:15:53.479 --> 02:15:57.600 Nixon because Nixon's a bad guy. That's literally insane, you know, 1776 02:15:57.800 --> 02:16:00.560 Like that's but that that's but that's how the people think, 1777 02:16:01.600 --> 02:16:08.319 you know, it's the uh. Nixon was so disturbed by it. 1778 02:16:11.600 --> 02:16:16.560 He uh. On the one hand, you know, he said, 1779 02:16:18.920 --> 02:16:21.680 you know, he said, if we overreact to this. This 1780 02:16:21.840 --> 02:16:24.960 was speaking to his uh, his national security Cabinet, and 1781 02:16:25.000 --> 02:16:28.000 then privately, Kissinger, you said, if we overreact to this, 1782 02:16:29.239 --> 02:16:31.960 we're just that, you know, we will look like weaklings 1783 02:16:31.960 --> 02:16:36.479 because it's kind of constantly reacting to what our enemies do. 1784 02:16:39.280 --> 02:16:41.079 You know, So should we should we? Should we? Not? 1785 02:16:41.280 --> 02:16:41.639 Should we? 1786 02:16:42.040 --> 02:16:45.159 You know, ignore it in the court of public opinion 1787 02:16:45.200 --> 02:16:49.040 and not a sho an official statement and deal with 1788 02:16:49.280 --> 02:16:56.920 you know, eliminating these people. Later, Kissinger uh said, no, 1789 02:16:58.120 --> 02:17:02.280 the fact that some if he's like, the problem is 1790 02:17:02.319 --> 02:17:04.920 the fact that some idiot can publish that, like you know, 1791 02:17:05.120 --> 02:17:07.840 the the diplomatic and military seeks with this country on 1792 02:17:07.959 --> 02:17:10.840 his own. Like the fact that this and this can 1793 02:17:10.920 --> 02:17:13.280 destroy our ability to get up foreign policy, like the 1794 02:17:13.360 --> 02:17:15.799 fact that's being done in the first place, Like the 1795 02:17:15.920 --> 02:17:20.520 damage is done, you know, and there you see, like 1796 02:17:20.840 --> 02:17:25.479 Kissinger kind of the Machiavelian emerging contra Nixon the politician, 1797 02:17:25.680 --> 02:17:30.159 which I kind of interesting. And it's also too, I mean, 1798 02:17:30.239 --> 02:17:34.319 if if other powers feel you cannot control leaks and 1799 02:17:34.360 --> 02:17:36.840 the flow of information. They're not going to negotiate with 1800 02:17:36.920 --> 02:17:39.639 you in a serious capacity. You know, North Vietnam is 1801 02:17:39.680 --> 02:17:42.000 not gonna talk to you seriously. The Russians and the 1802 02:17:42.079 --> 02:17:45.000 Chinese tourists aren't going to talk to you because you know, 1803 02:17:45.120 --> 02:17:47.280 they they've got to be certain that you know what 1804 02:17:47.399 --> 02:17:51.040 they tell you, like doesn't travel to the to the other. 1805 02:17:55.000 --> 02:17:59.319 If you cannot control the flow of information within your 1806 02:17:59.360 --> 02:18:05.440 sovereign domain, you cannot be said to be sovereign. So 1807 02:18:05.639 --> 02:18:12.600 Nixon's solution to this was an anti leak unit who's 1808 02:18:12.760 --> 02:18:15.879 mandate specifically was to make sure nothing like the Pentagon 1809 02:18:15.959 --> 02:18:21.959 papers could ever happen again. The unit was formed by 1810 02:18:22.200 --> 02:18:29.319 h who got air Litman's assistants Ego Bud Crow and 1811 02:18:29.440 --> 02:18:34.959 Kissing Germ's administrative assistant David Young. They recruited G. Gordon Lyddy, 1812 02:18:37.959 --> 02:18:40.280 who'd been an FBI man, and he was a military 1813 02:18:40.280 --> 02:18:45.840 event and he was working at the in the Department 1814 02:18:45.840 --> 02:18:48.719 of Justice as a in kind of a murky capacity, 1815 02:18:49.639 --> 02:18:53.079 technically as an investigator, but probably in some like national 1816 02:18:53.200 --> 02:18:57.600 security policy like I would I would imagine counter espionage, 1817 02:18:59.000 --> 02:19:00.840 which at that time was a big part of the 1818 02:19:01.000 --> 02:19:07.280 FBI is like mission mandate. They were called the Plumbers 1819 02:19:07.280 --> 02:19:13.479 because apparently David Young's grandmother, upon hearing that he was 1820 02:19:14.040 --> 02:19:17.719 running a unit to stop leaks, she wrote him a 1821 02:19:17.799 --> 02:19:21.399 letter saying that you know, well, you know, your grandfather 1822 02:19:21.520 --> 02:19:23.920 be proud that you're returning to the family business because 1823 02:19:23.920 --> 02:19:25.879 he'd been a plumber in New York City, Which is 1824 02:19:26.000 --> 02:19:34.600 kind of funny. But the uh also the plumbers did. 1825 02:19:35.959 --> 02:19:44.559 I was entirely justifiable, if any reasonable perspective, in light 1826 02:19:44.639 --> 02:19:50.239 of the severity of the Elsberg case. Their first kind 1827 02:19:50.280 --> 02:19:55.600 of breach with legality, They've got they got they got 1828 02:19:55.680 --> 02:20:02.200 to go ahead from Erlockman himself too covertly, in his words, 1829 02:20:02.239 --> 02:20:05.959 obtained the files to obtain Elsberg's medical files from his 1830 02:20:06.040 --> 02:20:11.559 psychiatrist's office, and the White House plumbers broke into the 1831 02:20:11.600 --> 02:20:16.479 psychiatrist's office after hours, and they in fact procured those files. 1832 02:20:18.959 --> 02:20:24.520 That break in of Elsberg's psychiatrist's office. That was the moment. 1833 02:20:24.520 --> 02:20:29.280 It was the Nick administration, albeit totally unknown to Nixon himself, 1834 02:20:29.360 --> 02:20:36.079 It did over overstep the bounds of legality, but nobody 1835 02:20:36.200 --> 02:20:43.840 talked about it subsequently, obviously because it could be rationalized 1836 02:20:43.879 --> 02:20:50.079 as you know, an infraction that was unfortunate, but the 1837 02:20:50.159 --> 02:20:54.520 necessity of which was dictated by basic national security exigencies. 1838 02:20:55.399 --> 02:20:57.719 And it also raised the incomgtable questions like why is 1839 02:20:57.760 --> 02:21:02.719 Elberg like feeding secrets, you know, feeding state series to 1840 02:21:02.760 --> 02:21:08.159 the media and potentially putting tens of millions in Maria's 1841 02:21:08.239 --> 02:21:12.000 lives in jeopardy the sole purpose of bringing down Nixon, 1842 02:21:13.280 --> 02:21:26.680 you know. Obviously the subsequent break in May, in late 1843 02:21:26.760 --> 02:21:30.840 May nineteen seventy two, and then again on June seventeenth, 1844 02:21:30.879 --> 02:21:34.680 I mean seventy two. These are the Water eight break ins. 1845 02:21:34.719 --> 02:21:36.520 There was two break ins at the Water eight Hotel 1846 02:21:37.479 --> 02:21:41.360 by the White House plumbers, the second of which was 1847 02:21:41.440 --> 02:21:54.200 when they were caught. All we've been going for let's 1848 02:21:54.399 --> 02:21:58.360 I've got about another hour. I want to go. If 1849 02:21:58.399 --> 02:22:00.559 you want me to do that, I eat a break 1850 02:22:00.719 --> 02:22:02.799 or we can reconvene in a day or two. 1851 02:22:09.520 --> 02:22:12.159 Sorry I was muted. Why don't we reconvene in a 1852 02:22:12.239 --> 02:22:12.680 day or two? 1853 02:22:13.239 --> 02:22:13.280 No? 1854 02:22:13.319 --> 02:22:15.600 No, I know you have a lot more, a lot 1855 02:22:15.680 --> 02:22:15.959 more to go. 1856 02:22:16.280 --> 02:22:18.200 So yeah, I didn't mean to dra us out too long, 1857 02:22:18.280 --> 02:22:20.600 but I want to deal with Archibald Cox as well 1858 02:22:20.680 --> 02:22:22.280 in that. But I promise we'll wrap it up in 1859 02:22:22.319 --> 02:22:23.159 the third episode. 1860 02:22:24.520 --> 02:22:28.559 All right, so just let's end it right there. Give 1861 02:22:28.600 --> 02:22:29.479 your plugs and. 1862 02:22:30.079 --> 02:22:32.159 Yeah, I hope you on the subs were happy. I 1863 02:22:32.200 --> 02:22:35.000 hope I wasn't rambling too much. It's a it's a 1864 02:22:35.040 --> 02:22:35.719 dense topic. 1865 02:22:36.200 --> 02:22:36.399 Yeah. 1866 02:22:37.719 --> 02:22:41.600 You can find me at x at Real Capital r 1867 02:22:41.639 --> 02:22:44.959 e A O Underscore number seven h M A S 1868 02:22:45.000 --> 02:22:49.879 seven seven seven. Find me a substick Real Thomas seven 1869 02:22:49.920 --> 02:22:52.520 seven seven at subseck dot com. That's what the podcast 1870 02:22:52.680 --> 02:22:56.799 is too. Find me my website number seven h M 1871 02:22:56.879 --> 02:23:00.159 A S seven seven seven dot com. I'm a some 1872 02:23:00.600 --> 02:23:03.479 people answered the call. I'm assembling a team of video 1873 02:23:03.520 --> 02:23:07.680 and audio editors who have offered to help me and Rake. 1874 02:23:08.879 --> 02:23:13.559 That's gonna dramatically expedite our ability to get content out there. 1875 02:23:14.399 --> 02:23:17.440 And like I said, I think something miss understood when 1876 02:23:17.440 --> 02:23:19.520 I shouted out on Twitter when I said I gotta 1877 02:23:19.520 --> 02:23:23.079 scale back. Like my pod appearances, I'm gonna keep doing 1878 02:23:23.200 --> 02:23:26.040 these with Pete as long as he wants, as long 1879 02:23:26.040 --> 02:23:29.639 as Wing to host me, but other commitments outside of 1880 02:23:29.639 --> 02:23:32.239 my own pod, I'm gonna have to scale those back dramatically. 1881 02:23:32.639 --> 02:23:34.360 Otherwise I'm not gonna have any time in the day 1882 02:23:34.440 --> 02:23:36.840 to work on these manuscripts and this other stuff. I 1883 02:23:36.959 --> 02:23:40.479 will come back to making myself basically available. But in 1884 02:23:40.559 --> 02:23:43.959 the next few days, I it's I'm gonna have to 1885 02:23:44.040 --> 02:23:48.680 dramatically cut back on abiding invitations to appear, and I'm 1886 02:23:48.719 --> 02:23:51.159 sorry about that. But I will always be on here 1887 02:23:51.360 --> 02:23:54.239 as long as Pete wants to host me, and I 1888 02:23:54.280 --> 02:23:56.559 will always be active on my own shit. But I'm 1889 02:23:56.559 --> 02:23:59.079 gonna need a couple of months to just focus on 1890 02:23:59.479 --> 02:24:00.680 getting a hit on this stuff. 1891 02:24:01.360 --> 02:24:03.959 That's all I got, all right, man, till the next time, 1892 02:24:04.079 --> 02:24:08.120 till part three, talk to you. Thanks. Yeah, I want 1893 02:24:08.120 --> 02:24:11.559 to welcome everyone back to the Pecanana Show. I think 1894 02:24:11.879 --> 02:24:15.959 Thomas is ready to uh finish up this three parter 1895 02:24:16.479 --> 02:24:19.920 on Nixon and Watergate today. How you doing, Thomas, I'm doing. 1896 02:24:19.959 --> 02:24:24.879 Well, there's a lot. There's a lot to this topic. 1897 02:24:25.319 --> 02:24:27.479 I mean, that's why I wanted to go an extra episode. 1898 02:24:28.319 --> 02:24:30.360 I think people get bogged down to minutia. They don't 1899 02:24:30.360 --> 02:24:33.559 see the forest through the trees. That's easy to do 1900 02:24:33.840 --> 02:24:35.920 because there's so much smoke and mirrors and you know, 1901 02:24:36.159 --> 02:24:39.280 just no morm of deliberate ledgard main by interested parties. 1902 02:24:40.159 --> 02:24:42.159 But also people focus on the wrong things, you know, 1903 02:24:42.239 --> 02:24:45.360 Like I said, the book Silent Coo is exhausted and 1904 02:24:45.399 --> 02:24:49.319 it's a good resource, but I think it focuses too 1905 02:24:49.440 --> 02:24:53.280 much on, you know, speculating about the intrigues actually led 1906 02:24:53.280 --> 02:24:56.799 to the Watergate break in, and as I'm going to 1907 02:24:56.840 --> 02:25:01.200 get into, because I'm going to get into today, the 1908 02:25:01.319 --> 02:25:04.920 second Watergate break in, whereby the plumbers were actually arrested, 1909 02:25:05.440 --> 02:25:08.799 that increasingly faded into the kind of faded into the 1910 02:25:08.840 --> 02:25:16.159 peribrial ether even as the narrative was reaching its zenith 1911 02:25:17.120 --> 02:25:22.399 in terms of, you know, the coalition that had assembled 1912 02:25:23.360 --> 02:25:25.399 to bring down the Nickson White House, you know, even 1913 02:25:25.799 --> 02:25:27.040 when they were kind of like at the peak of 1914 02:25:27.040 --> 02:25:31.000 their power, and we're very it was it was you know, 1915 02:25:31.079 --> 02:25:34.639 a fore round inclusion that they would they would get 1916 02:25:35.680 --> 02:25:38.600 an impeachment quorum if in fact it came down to 1917 02:25:38.719 --> 02:25:42.319 such a vote. And that's important to consider the degree 1918 02:25:42.360 --> 02:25:45.280 to which, you know, whatever the plumbers were doing was 1919 02:25:45.319 --> 02:25:50.799 really protextual what I believe people are saying, and this 1920 02:25:50.920 --> 02:25:53.440 is entirely this is very very dishonest. I'm not saying 1921 02:25:53.440 --> 02:25:57.719 this is somehow more legitimate than the kind of laughable 1922 02:25:58.559 --> 02:26:02.000 sort of pretext of what is being alleged is indicative 1923 02:26:02.079 --> 02:26:05.040 of you know, intolerable corruption and overreach on the necks 1924 02:26:05.079 --> 02:26:12.520 and White House, the below board, or extra judicial wire 1925 02:26:12.600 --> 02:26:22.520 tapping of certain individuals, as well as as well as 1926 02:26:24.000 --> 02:26:30.000 what was said on the infamous Nixon tapes that seems 1927 02:26:30.040 --> 02:26:35.600 to be abould really through Special Counsel Archibald Cox, into 1928 02:26:35.639 --> 02:26:40.280 this kind of vicious moral crusade, which makes a little 1929 02:26:40.319 --> 02:26:47.319 bit more sense than the Watergate break in pretext, but 1930 02:26:47.440 --> 02:26:50.360 in comparative terms. And again, this isn't what about ism 1931 02:26:50.520 --> 02:26:56.079 when we're talking about criminal law and the impeachment power 1932 02:26:56.200 --> 02:26:59.040 and process is a matter of criminal law, albeit a 1933 02:26:59.200 --> 02:27:03.680 very discreetly narrowly tailored one and a very unusual one. 1934 02:27:04.079 --> 02:27:06.600 But we can only rely on precedent, you know, to 1935 02:27:06.719 --> 02:27:11.440 determine what's an appropriate way to proceed under diverse facts 1936 02:27:11.520 --> 02:27:18.559 and circumstances. And essentially nobody cared when other administrations did 1937 02:27:18.639 --> 02:27:22.719 exactly the same things that the Knickson administration was doing 1938 02:27:23.760 --> 02:27:27.879 and considering the exigencies presented, you know, it can never 1939 02:27:27.959 --> 02:27:31.159 be it should never be forgotten that Nixon was a 1940 02:27:31.200 --> 02:27:36.680 wartime president in a very real sense and that had 1941 02:27:37.040 --> 02:27:41.639 had that had existential implications during the Cold War, you know, 1942 02:27:41.840 --> 02:27:44.639 I mean Bush forty three was also a wartime president. 1943 02:27:44.799 --> 02:27:50.520 But the not to sound overwrought, but the kind of 1944 02:27:50.639 --> 02:27:54.079 fate of the world system as it existed was not 1945 02:27:54.280 --> 02:27:57.719 in the balance, you know, I react not a client 1946 02:27:57.799 --> 02:28:01.760 state of a superpower that could kill eighty million Americans 1947 02:28:02.440 --> 02:28:07.319 within hours an event of a general war. So whatever 1948 02:28:07.479 --> 02:28:16.319 Nixon did as regards extra judicial measures undertaken against people 1949 02:28:17.799 --> 02:28:22.879 who are believed, based upon some reasonable suspicion, to be 1950 02:28:22.959 --> 02:28:26.920 compromising the ability United States to specifically off off to 1951 02:28:27.000 --> 02:28:30.200 the president, you know, to carry on not just diplomacy, 1952 02:28:30.360 --> 02:28:36.440 but carry on and prosecute an active war while protecting 1953 02:28:36.520 --> 02:28:41.040 state secrets in the midst of a wider strategic paradigm 1954 02:28:45.040 --> 02:28:49.680 that that that's got to be considered and what's what's 1955 02:28:49.760 --> 02:28:53.920 appropriate and what constant is a clear and present danger 1956 02:28:54.040 --> 02:29:02.639 then cannot be analogised or analogized to facts and circumstances. 1957 02:29:04.319 --> 02:29:12.959 Were such such factors not present. I think we spoke, 1958 02:29:13.120 --> 02:29:16.159 and I think we ended last time around the even 1959 02:29:16.200 --> 02:29:18.360 one's second to call my notes hears, I'm not having 1960 02:29:18.360 --> 02:29:23.239 to do them, so I'm not having to do Google 1961 02:29:23.360 --> 02:29:33.440 food to get them next to check my dates and things. Yeah, 1962 02:29:33.440 --> 02:29:38.159 I think we I think we ended in discussing we 1963 02:29:38.239 --> 02:29:44.399 started to talk about the White House tapes before we 1964 02:29:44.440 --> 02:29:50.440 get to that. Though, one of the reasons why Liddy 1965 02:29:50.559 --> 02:29:52.719 became sort of the face of Watergate is not just 1966 02:29:52.799 --> 02:29:57.120 because you know, he was an eccentric character and he 1967 02:29:57.280 --> 02:30:01.639 was kind of made for you know, conspiraal narratives in media, 1968 02:30:01.799 --> 02:30:07.440 like the Man of Lydia. I mean, after the after 1969 02:30:07.479 --> 02:30:12.680 the White House plumbers were arrested, a particularly ambitious judge 1970 02:30:13.000 --> 02:30:16.879 named John si Rica Cloak People Cloak Willie, anonymously known 1971 02:30:16.920 --> 02:30:20.920 as Maximum John because he was very much like a 1972 02:30:21.000 --> 02:30:23.639 Rockefeller laws or a judge who was known for his 1973 02:30:23.680 --> 02:30:31.639 absolutely draconian sentences. He was threatening to slap the White 1974 02:30:31.680 --> 02:30:36.719 House plumbers with life sentences like with parole, but just 1975 02:30:36.799 --> 02:30:39.920 the same if if they refuse to turn state's evidence. 1976 02:30:40.440 --> 02:30:44.319 That's quite literally insane, you know, to say, well, you're gonna, 1977 02:30:44.319 --> 02:30:46.120 you're gonna, you're gonna lock people up for the mouse, 1978 02:30:46.239 --> 02:30:51.319 you know, twenty years to life from a petty burglary, 1979 02:30:52.000 --> 02:30:55.959 you know, regardless of the implications visa via a sitting 1980 02:30:55.959 --> 02:31:01.239 in presidential administration. I mean, things like things like this 1981 02:31:03.959 --> 02:31:07.319 that doesn't just smack a malicious prosecution, but I mean 1982 02:31:07.399 --> 02:31:10.680 that that's that's an obvious made of judicial overreach, you know, 1983 02:31:10.799 --> 02:31:12.600 and it goes to show you're kind of at every level, 1984 02:31:12.719 --> 02:31:14.959 this was this this this scandal that we can call 1985 02:31:15.000 --> 02:31:20.680 it a scandal and not you know, coup, which is 1986 02:31:20.879 --> 02:31:24.159 kind of more probably what it was. At every stage, 1987 02:31:25.159 --> 02:31:29.280 you know, every every every actor of regime official dumb 1988 02:31:29.399 --> 02:31:38.200 was proceeding abnormally, you know it, Uh Liddy uh clammed 1989 02:31:38.280 --> 02:31:41.959 up essentially stated he wasn't afraid to go to prison. 1990 02:31:45.840 --> 02:31:51.000 Three could further threaten him by making it clear that 1991 02:31:51.079 --> 02:31:52.799 he'd see to it that Liddy was sent to a 1992 02:31:52.879 --> 02:31:58.520 maximum security prison, you know, presumably that housed violent offenders. 1993 02:31:58.559 --> 02:32:01.959 And this was you know, the Attica era when when 1994 02:32:02.000 --> 02:32:05.319 when when racial warfare was underwayne American penitentiaries. I mean, 1995 02:32:05.319 --> 02:32:06.760 this is this is very this is this is really 1996 02:32:06.840 --> 02:32:13.959 quite grotesque. Okay, it's you know, I mean, as it were, 1997 02:32:14.159 --> 02:32:20.079 uh lady was able to plete out. But you know, 1998 02:32:20.159 --> 02:32:23.760 for people proportedly, you know, for these Woodward and Bernstein 1999 02:32:23.799 --> 02:32:27.680 types supposedly were so singularly concerned with the integrity of 2000 02:32:27.799 --> 02:32:31.520 processes and things. I mean they I I would think 2001 02:32:31.559 --> 02:32:34.440 that that would have given them pause. But apparently it didn't, 2002 02:32:38.280 --> 02:32:42.639 you know, So thus the water when you know, the 2003 02:32:42.680 --> 02:32:45.239 water gets the water get scandal broke, you know obviously 2004 02:32:45.360 --> 02:32:47.559 with with the arrest of the plumbers, but it wasn't 2005 02:32:48.639 --> 02:32:50.760 you know again, it kind of pretty rapidly mutated into 2006 02:32:50.840 --> 02:32:59.520 something totally unrelated. The uh the Democrats had majority congressional control, 2007 02:33:01.239 --> 02:33:03.600 so this was kind of their proved opportunity to assault, 2008 02:33:03.760 --> 02:33:07.120 you know, the imperial presidency, which had become their boogeyman, 2009 02:33:07.520 --> 02:33:11.200 as they've been talking about the last two episodes, and 2010 02:33:11.559 --> 02:33:14.159 what they singularly focused on first was you know, the 2011 02:33:14.239 --> 02:33:17.120 White House tapes. You know, the claim then is now 2012 02:33:17.280 --> 02:33:21.840 was oh Nixon was this paranoiac. He was taping everything 2013 02:33:21.920 --> 02:33:24.440 in the White House. There'd been a White House taping 2014 02:33:24.479 --> 02:33:27.959 system in place since FDR. When Nixon took the other 2015 02:33:27.959 --> 02:33:31.440 of office, there was a taping system installed that Johnson 2016 02:33:31.479 --> 02:33:37.040 had installed Nixon, and that one removed. The one that 2017 02:33:37.159 --> 02:33:40.600 replaced it was one that holler him and selected that 2018 02:33:40.799 --> 02:33:45.360 was voice activated. So that was which was something of 2019 02:33:45.399 --> 02:33:49.239 a double edged sword because obviously it guarantees that you know, 2020 02:33:49.440 --> 02:33:52.799 if if if the third man in the room forgets 2021 02:33:52.879 --> 02:33:56.639 to you know, hit the record button. In those days, 2022 02:33:56.760 --> 02:34:00.280 you know, with that with the same technology, know, the 2023 02:34:00.959 --> 02:34:05.719 the minute somebody speaks audibly, the mechanism would would kick on. 2024 02:34:06.600 --> 02:34:12.319 You know. Some people have claimed like, oh, this, this 2025 02:34:12.479 --> 02:34:14.799 is what this was the single greatest disservice you know, 2026 02:34:14.879 --> 02:34:17.600 Hallerman could have all be it unintentionally done? I don't 2027 02:34:17.639 --> 02:34:19.639 accept that. Like the issue with the tapes, wasn't that 2028 02:34:20.479 --> 02:34:22.840 the whole point of the whole point of taping Oval 2029 02:34:22.879 --> 02:34:26.280 office conversations is that they're not doctored. It's that when 2030 02:34:26.319 --> 02:34:29.239 it's claimed that you know, oh, mister Nixon said this, 2031 02:34:29.520 --> 02:34:32.920 he ordered this. There's literally both sides or all sides 2032 02:34:32.920 --> 02:34:36.280 of the conversation. You know, it can't it can't be 2033 02:34:36.399 --> 02:34:39.200 said to be you know, half of a conversation, you know, 2034 02:34:39.319 --> 02:34:43.920 owing to owing to selective editing, you know, in sitsu. 2035 02:34:47.000 --> 02:34:53.959 But of course, uh, these uh, the transcriptions of these tapes. 2036 02:34:56.239 --> 02:35:01.559 The court and the Congressional advent instigators insisted that these 2037 02:35:01.639 --> 02:35:07.440 be handed over without exception. And I mean obviously that's 2038 02:35:08.079 --> 02:35:11.040 you know, uh, this is this is literally what executive 2039 02:35:11.079 --> 02:35:14.399 privilege is tailored for, is to prevent such things from 2040 02:35:14.440 --> 02:35:18.600 seeing the light of day, you know, not not because 2041 02:35:18.639 --> 02:35:21.840 we're gonna protect you know, a sitting executive, not because 2042 02:35:21.840 --> 02:35:24.920 we're gonna indentify, indemnify I am from wrongdoing. But again 2043 02:35:26.120 --> 02:35:33.239 it was understood by everybody, literally everybody, you know, until 2044 02:35:33.920 --> 02:35:37.959 this Watergate moment, that there's going to be state secrets 2045 02:35:38.000 --> 02:35:41.799 bandied about pretty much constantly in the Oval Office. You know, 2046 02:35:41.840 --> 02:35:43.680 we're not We're not gonna just kind of throw open 2047 02:35:43.719 --> 02:35:49.559 the doors of you know, the machinery of policy in 2048 02:35:49.680 --> 02:35:52.799 a time of war and you know, destroy the ability 2049 02:35:52.879 --> 02:35:59.920 to practice you know, meaningful diplomacy and and wartime negotiation, 2050 02:36:00.079 --> 02:36:02.040 and you know, just so that you know, Woodward and 2051 02:36:02.120 --> 02:36:04.719 Bernstein can get the scoop, or just so that you know, 2052 02:36:04.760 --> 02:36:07.840 there can be some kind of forth estate veto over 2053 02:36:07.959 --> 02:36:11.879 what they perceived to be you know, bad conduct and 2054 02:36:11.920 --> 02:36:15.600 the prosecution of the Vietnam War or whatever, you know, 2055 02:36:15.760 --> 02:36:21.920 something that's that was bad faith of itself. The driving 2056 02:36:22.079 --> 02:36:26.520 force against Nixon, particularly in this regard of the tapes 2057 02:36:27.879 --> 02:36:32.639 in the Senate at least was Sam Urvin, who, ironically, 2058 02:36:33.079 --> 02:36:36.879 you know, we talked about that Bobby Baker scandal, you know, 2059 02:36:37.000 --> 02:36:41.200 like sex scandal involving LBJ. Like Irvin had been the 2060 02:36:41.280 --> 02:36:43.959 man who successfully you know, kind of intervened like save 2061 02:36:44.079 --> 02:36:49.559 Olbg's ass you know, many years back. By that point, 2062 02:36:50.120 --> 02:36:53.120 he'd kind of retained his role as a political fixer, 2063 02:36:53.440 --> 02:36:58.559 you know, but obviously he didn't have any particular history 2064 02:36:58.600 --> 02:37:01.719 with Nixon personally. You know, this is obviously very much 2065 02:37:01.799 --> 02:37:09.920 a careerist, uh effort. And you know, since he'd been 2066 02:37:11.360 --> 02:37:17.120 the secretary of the majority leader back in back in 2067 02:37:17.200 --> 02:37:20.719 the days the Baker scandal. He'd ultimately resigned during an 2068 02:37:20.760 --> 02:37:25.319 investigation in ninety sixty three into this, you know, into 2069 02:37:25.360 --> 02:37:28.680 the into his business and political activities. But he very 2070 02:37:28.760 --> 02:37:31.840 much bounced back from that, and uh, I think of 2071 02:37:31.920 --> 02:37:33.159 this as a way of him kind of trying to 2072 02:37:33.360 --> 02:37:35.680 ingradiate himself to the new masters, as it were. But 2073 02:37:38.319 --> 02:37:42.280 the uh, the investigation into Baker was in sremonus he 2074 02:37:42.399 --> 02:37:45.040 dropped there for the assassination of Kennedy when kind of 2075 02:37:45.040 --> 02:37:49.120 everything got thrown into him chaos, you know, and uh, 2076 02:37:50.079 --> 02:37:52.280 not not to be make a crude pun, but I 2077 02:37:52.319 --> 02:37:54.559 mean Urban kind of dodged a bullet as as much 2078 02:37:54.719 --> 02:38:02.200 Kennedy uh did not did not dodge a bullet simultaneously. 2079 02:38:03.040 --> 02:38:05.760 Because I think we touched on you know, Vice President 2080 02:38:05.799 --> 02:38:09.799 Spureau agnew he was very suddenly accused of accepting kickbacks, 2081 02:38:11.319 --> 02:38:18.319 you know, for for government contracts, particularly by you know, 2082 02:38:18.440 --> 02:38:21.239 construction firms that you know, we're alleged to have organized 2083 02:38:21.280 --> 02:38:26.520 crime ties, you know, all government Maryland. He got slapped 2084 02:38:26.559 --> 02:38:31.760 with this uh indictment containing over forty counts, you know, 2085 02:38:32.639 --> 02:38:37.440 and alleging everything from you know, tax tax fraud and 2086 02:38:37.520 --> 02:38:43.799 tax evasion. He's accepting the bribes, you know, criminal conspiracy 2087 02:38:43.879 --> 02:38:46.680 and solicitation to commit fraud. You know. But again it's 2088 02:38:46.719 --> 02:38:49.479 like why why is this suddenly coming out now? You know? 2089 02:38:51.680 --> 02:38:54.079 But I mean Agnew had Agnew had no choice but 2090 02:38:54.200 --> 02:38:58.559 to resign on October ninth, ninety seventy three, the Justice 2091 02:38:58.600 --> 02:39:04.280 Department offering him if he was willing to resign, off 2092 02:39:04.319 --> 02:39:07.559 offering him a play, uh no contest. You know, I'm 2093 02:39:08.200 --> 02:39:10.920 on one kind of tax evasion, which also I mean 2094 02:39:11.000 --> 02:39:14.440 is very transparent too. You know. It's well, we'll make 2095 02:39:14.479 --> 02:39:16.520 we'll make this forty kind indictment go away as long 2096 02:39:16.559 --> 02:39:22.079 as you quit, you know. Enter Alexander Haig and he 2097 02:39:22.200 --> 02:39:25.600 becomes key. Higg's a really compelling figure, and I think 2098 02:39:25.680 --> 02:39:30.440 he was a stronger military mind than he's credited. He 2099 02:39:30.680 --> 02:39:36.399 was a commander of a naval forces during kind of 2100 02:39:36.680 --> 02:39:38.440 kind of keep during kind of the key detent era 2101 02:39:38.520 --> 02:39:40.000 and as Dayton came to an end. I mean, he 2102 02:39:40.040 --> 02:39:47.799 famously is remembered for you know, his uh putting his 2103 02:39:47.840 --> 02:39:50.799 foot in his mouth after Reagan was shot. I'm in 2104 02:39:50.920 --> 02:39:54.000 control here. I No matter what Haig said, he was 2105 02:39:54.319 --> 02:39:58.319 gonna be used as a pinata by you know, by 2106 02:39:58.360 --> 02:40:01.600 the enemies of mister Nixon and you know, those with 2107 02:40:01.719 --> 02:40:07.799 long memories. But Haig, at this point became the White 2108 02:40:07.799 --> 02:40:13.399 House Chief of Staff, held him and having resigned, you know, 2109 02:40:13.479 --> 02:40:15.879 owing to the fact that he there was you know, 2110 02:40:15.959 --> 02:40:26.079 he'd been singularly targeted by the Watergate witch hunters. Haig 2111 02:40:26.280 --> 02:40:28.559 was a pretty I mean, indition to being a strong 2112 02:40:31.360 --> 02:40:36.040 general officer type of that era, he was a combat 2113 02:40:36.120 --> 02:40:41.360 veteran in of Korea. He had good Machiavillian instincts for Washington, 2114 02:40:41.680 --> 02:40:46.479 and he was in favor of Agnew stepping down without 2115 02:40:46.520 --> 02:40:50.360 a fuss for the sake of optics. But privately, his 2116 02:40:50.520 --> 02:40:57.639 big concern was uh that both Nickson and Agnew would 2117 02:40:57.680 --> 02:41:04.360 be indicted, leaving succession to the constitutional next in line, 2118 02:41:04.959 --> 02:41:08.319 who was figure at the House, Carl Albert at that time, 2119 02:41:08.600 --> 02:41:12.959 who is known to be like a barely functioning alcoholic. 2120 02:41:13.399 --> 02:41:16.479 He was presently under psychiatric here, you know, to a 2121 02:41:16.559 --> 02:41:19.959 military man like hey, everything else aside the idea of 2122 02:41:20.000 --> 02:41:24.959 there basically being like a headless executive at that juncture, 2123 02:41:25.159 --> 02:41:34.600 you know, mind you in the midst of the on 2124 02:41:34.719 --> 02:41:37.319 the costs, but in the midst of you know, the 2125 02:41:37.440 --> 02:41:42.639 nineteen seventy three war, the kind of you know, critical 2126 02:41:42.719 --> 02:41:49.680 critical developments in Southeast Asia after you know, the signing 2127 02:41:49.719 --> 02:41:52.959 of the peace agreement, which had to be managed correctly 2128 02:41:53.079 --> 02:41:55.360 as you know, to say the least, you know, as 2129 02:41:55.440 --> 02:42:00.840 Han NOI kind of tested the parameters of American willingness 2130 02:42:00.920 --> 02:42:04.479 to enforce it. You know, this sin was so be 2131 02:42:04.520 --> 02:42:06.959 it split was you know, the blood was still fresh 2132 02:42:07.239 --> 02:42:12.600 from that coverbial separation. This this could have been uh, 2133 02:42:14.799 --> 02:42:17.719 this this, this, this, this could have been an absolute disaster. Now, 2134 02:42:19.879 --> 02:42:27.959 enter Archibold Cox. One second. Let me sorry about this. 2135 02:42:42.840 --> 02:42:46.079 I always lose my place and notes too. Okay, yeah, no, jit, 2136 02:42:47.959 --> 02:42:49.639 you want a little you want a little question that 2137 02:42:49.719 --> 02:42:50.200 might no. 2138 02:42:50.520 --> 02:42:54.319 I'm good, okay, I got okay, Yeah, here. 2139 02:42:54.520 --> 02:43:08.360 This second, I was gonna ask you a question about 2140 02:43:08.399 --> 02:43:10.440 hag Yeah, by all means, go ahead. 2141 02:43:11.959 --> 02:43:14.440 This is off topic. But when he made that comment 2142 02:43:14.559 --> 02:43:18.840 after the UH after Reagan got shot. Do you think 2143 02:43:18.840 --> 02:43:21.079 the Russians thought a coup might be under underway? 2144 02:43:22.360 --> 02:43:31.120 It's possible, but it uh yeah, but I think, yeah, definitely. 2145 02:43:31.280 --> 02:43:35.159 But the there was an aspect, you know, we these 2146 02:43:35.319 --> 02:43:40.360 these sovietologists in in America were always kind of lamenting that, uh, 2147 02:43:42.559 --> 02:43:47.000 that it was like a miss a riddle wrapped in 2148 02:43:47.040 --> 02:43:49.479 an enigma to the try and discern, you know, like 2149 02:43:49.559 --> 02:43:54.600 who the real power was behind the throne in the Kremlin, 2150 02:43:57.120 --> 02:44:00.719 and drop Off thought that Reagan was something of a 2151 02:44:00.799 --> 02:44:05.440 cipher anyway. And that's one of the reasons during the 2152 02:44:05.479 --> 02:44:10.479 Avil Archer era why I kind of the real intromvirate 2153 02:44:10.600 --> 02:44:14.360 of grim Eco Ustenoff and it dropped Off became so 2154 02:44:14.799 --> 02:44:18.920 paranoid as it were so Yeah, I think that added 2155 02:44:18.959 --> 02:44:23.000 to the danger of a Reagan Reagan being shot just 2156 02:44:23.239 --> 02:44:25.479 just on its own terms, like added to the danger 2157 02:44:25.559 --> 02:44:30.200 of the of the situation. In my opinion, I don't 2158 02:44:30.200 --> 02:44:31.920 think I don't think what Haig said signaled to the 2159 02:44:32.000 --> 02:44:40.719 Russians any any kind of critical any kind of critical perception, 2160 02:44:41.520 --> 02:44:50.920 critical capacity that impacted their perception. As far as Haig's 2161 02:44:51.000 --> 02:44:56.799 uh role in you know, the final days of the 2162 02:44:56.840 --> 02:45:07.319 Knicks administration, Hay very much came into the gun sights 2163 02:45:07.360 --> 02:45:15.479 of Archibald Cox, who is Archibald Cox before Nixon's appointment 2164 02:45:16.600 --> 02:45:23.399 of Attorney General Elliott Richardson before the Senate would confirm 2165 02:45:23.479 --> 02:45:31.319 him on May ninety seventy three, Richardson had to agree 2166 02:45:31.840 --> 02:45:35.200 at his confirmation hearing to a point of Watergate special prosecutor. 2167 02:45:38.440 --> 02:45:41.959 The special prosecutor role and of itself is absurd, like 2168 02:45:42.200 --> 02:45:45.559 in any epoch, like it was absurd when ken Starr 2169 02:45:46.520 --> 02:45:48.600 was assigned the role. I mean, Clinton was a total 2170 02:45:48.639 --> 02:45:53.000 piece of shit. But that's beside the point. This idea 2171 02:45:53.200 --> 02:45:57.040 of we're gonna we're gonna appoint what amounts to a 2172 02:45:57.120 --> 02:46:02.239 law enforcement officer. He's simply gonna like investigate. He's gonna 2173 02:46:02.239 --> 02:46:06.280 begin an investigation from a man and from there discover 2174 02:46:06.479 --> 02:46:11.399 some kind of wrongdoing. I mean that that's grossly offensive 2175 02:46:11.440 --> 02:46:21.760 to due process. It intrinsically politicizes, you know, the Fag 2176 02:46:21.840 --> 02:46:30.719 finding mission. And it also it basically in the best 2177 02:46:30.799 --> 02:46:34.760 of times and in the best of circumstances, in the 2178 02:46:34.840 --> 02:46:37.959 most stable circumstances, in terms of you know, a true 2179 02:46:38.000 --> 02:46:41.319 moral consistent in Washington, it basically calls by the sitting executive, 2180 02:46:41.360 --> 02:46:45.760 the police himself, and the worst at times in terms 2181 02:46:45.799 --> 02:46:51.079 of across the aisle trust and goodwill. You're you're basically 2182 02:46:51.120 --> 02:47:01.360 guaranteeing a witch hunt. Okay, Richardson h back to the 2183 02:47:01.520 --> 02:47:09.879 point of Archibald Cox. Under a one time special regulation 2184 02:47:10.239 --> 02:47:12.920 he was allowed to it was essentially allowed to appoint him. Okay, 2185 02:47:15.799 --> 02:47:18.520 Now this this, this, this, this whole arrangement was to 2186 02:47:18.600 --> 02:47:22.000 say it was I mean that Turtle legal scholar might 2187 02:47:22.040 --> 02:47:24.520 call it novel. I mean, it was just moronic. You know, 2188 02:47:24.559 --> 02:47:33.760 we're gonna have the incoming age essentially appoint a special prosecutor. 2189 02:47:33.840 --> 02:47:36.399 His job is like dig up dirt on the chief 2190 02:47:36.440 --> 02:47:41.159 executive of the administration. He's now going to serve. And 2191 02:47:41.719 --> 02:47:45.440 Richardson's reasoning for selecting Cox to say it was tortured, 2192 02:47:46.120 --> 02:47:53.760 it doesn't even begin to describe it. Cox had an 2193 02:47:53.840 --> 02:47:59.399 idea that richards and idea that Cox there was so 2194 02:47:59.479 --> 02:48:04.200 much natural hatred between Cox and the NIXT administration that 2195 02:48:04.840 --> 02:48:08.959 when Cox didn't come up with anything substantive in his investigation, 2196 02:48:09.639 --> 02:48:11.479 it couldn't be said that there was you know, any 2197 02:48:11.600 --> 02:48:15.879 kind of there was any kind of cooperation, you know, 2198 02:48:17.079 --> 02:48:19.840 or collusion, which is the stupid reviews word now between 2199 02:48:21.040 --> 02:48:24.319 Cox's office and in the White House. Like how anybody 2200 02:48:24.360 --> 02:48:28.959 could convince themselves of that is incredible. But Richardson actually 2201 02:48:29.000 --> 02:48:32.079 believed this. This wasn't He wasn't some This wasn't some 2202 02:48:32.200 --> 02:48:35.840 leedgered Maine that he was invoking because he, you know, 2203 02:48:35.879 --> 02:48:43.440 had some kind of secret enmity for his boss. Cox 2204 02:48:43.520 --> 02:48:48.239 had been John F. Kennedy's labor advisor. Kennedy had appointed 2205 02:48:48.239 --> 02:48:51.559 of Solicitor General and he held that role for four years. 2206 02:48:52.200 --> 02:48:54.120 He was an arch Kennedy loyalist, and he was a 2207 02:48:54.239 --> 02:48:58.280 radical leftist, you know, son of a Manhattan lawyer, Harvard alumni, 2208 02:48:59.559 --> 02:49:03.559 couse judical activist. He cited John Marshall as a model jurist, 2209 02:49:03.719 --> 02:49:06.360 you know, and thus I mean Marshall's literally the father 2210 02:49:06.479 --> 02:49:09.479 of judicial review and judicial activism, you know, Marbray versus 2211 02:49:09.600 --> 02:49:17.920 Madison being you know, the the progenitor authority. Cox had 2212 02:49:18.000 --> 02:49:22.799 graduated first of his class at Harvard. He got uh 2213 02:49:23.799 --> 02:49:27.200 a top posting at the Solicitor General's office when World 2214 02:49:27.200 --> 02:49:33.200 War two broke out? By it, what's that? Did you 2215 02:49:33.280 --> 02:49:37.040 say something? No? 2216 02:49:37.120 --> 02:49:38.200 I didn't. I didn't say anything. 2217 02:49:42.159 --> 02:49:49.040 He'd uh as an associate solicitor, he had a certain 2218 02:49:49.079 --> 02:49:53.440 outsized power the Labor Department in those days. Mind you, 2219 02:49:53.520 --> 02:49:55.440 I mean, this was this was kind of the zenith, 2220 02:49:55.959 --> 02:49:58.120 you know, like like really the twenties to the nineteen 2221 02:49:58.479 --> 02:50:01.280 seventies peaking in kind of you know, like the the 2222 02:50:01.920 --> 02:50:07.159 the nineteen thirties to the early fifties. You know, uh, 2223 02:50:08.319 --> 02:50:13.159 you know, real battles between organized labor and management, you know, 2224 02:50:13.280 --> 02:50:16.559 and the facts I mean of national economics in the 2225 02:50:16.600 --> 02:50:22.639 manufacturing economy. You know. His his role being the supervise 2226 02:50:22.760 --> 02:50:26.000 enforcement at the district court level of federal labor statutes, 2227 02:50:27.280 --> 02:50:29.520 you know, meant that he had a lot of clout, okay, 2228 02:50:29.879 --> 02:50:35.920 and again his his radical strikes brought him down unfailingly, 2229 02:50:36.200 --> 02:50:39.879 you know, on the side of a big labor and 2230 02:50:40.040 --> 02:50:46.680 interpreting regulatory in arbitration regime, you know, most as charitably 2231 02:50:46.719 --> 02:50:54.159 as as he possibly could within their favor. In this role, 2232 02:50:54.200 --> 02:50:59.360 he had a staff at eight lawyers each which supervised 2233 02:50:59.840 --> 02:51:05.399 apartment's regional offices. He could he had final authority and 2234 02:51:05.520 --> 02:51:09.159 when an attorney could bring suit. Most of these, most 2235 02:51:09.159 --> 02:51:13.440 of these, most of the litigation involved issues arising under 2236 02:51:13.440 --> 02:51:17.040 the Fair Labor Standards Act. Okay, which is kind of 2237 02:51:17.079 --> 02:51:20.159 the bane of of of of management, and of and 2238 02:51:20.399 --> 02:51:26.079 of capital in those days. He Uh. He also sat 2239 02:51:26.120 --> 02:51:29.399 on the wage Adjustment Board periodically with all the construction 2240 02:51:29.520 --> 02:51:34.639 industry and attempts to maintain labor peace by mediating disputes 2241 02:51:34.639 --> 02:51:41.120 and settling prevailing you know, you know, disputes from over 2242 02:51:41.239 --> 02:51:45.120 like you know, wage rates and increases, which was also 2243 02:51:45.159 --> 02:51:50.000 statutorily controlled by the Davis Bacon Act, which was tailored 2244 02:51:50.040 --> 02:51:54.959 to standardize wages. But obviously I mean that that that 2245 02:51:55.079 --> 02:51:59.159 was open to very very wide interpretation. So I mean, uh, 2246 02:51:59.799 --> 02:52:04.440 you Harvard Man himself, you know, the rich scion of 2247 02:52:04.520 --> 02:52:08.280 a of a legal family from Manhattan. You know, Uh, 2248 02:52:09.000 --> 02:52:11.520 this kind of like who had a hero worship and Kennedy, 2249 02:52:12.200 --> 02:52:14.559 you know, it's like who, It's like, what the hell 2250 02:52:14.680 --> 02:52:18.000 was richards in thinking like this is It's like, uh, 2251 02:52:19.600 --> 02:52:22.479 it's like hiring Uh, it's like hiring LUCIFERD guard the 2252 02:52:22.520 --> 02:52:26.000 Pearly gates when uh Saint Peter goes to take a 2253 02:52:26.040 --> 02:52:32.920 piss or something. But after the war, uh, Hovard Law 2254 02:52:32.959 --> 02:52:42.120 School hired Cox as a professor. Cox said the st 2255 02:52:42.399 --> 02:52:43.959 he used to the stipulation that he would as long 2256 02:52:43.959 --> 02:52:46.639 as they have to teach corporations or property. You very 2257 02:52:46.719 --> 02:52:48.639 much use this as like, you know, an opportunity to 2258 02:52:48.680 --> 02:52:54.040 grand stand on his you know, socialist politics. Obviously, he 2259 02:52:54.200 --> 02:52:58.399 became a permanent family member in nineteen forty six forty 2260 02:52:58.399 --> 02:53:02.120 seven school year, you know, and this was during the 2261 02:53:02.200 --> 02:53:04.319 post war boom and the g I Bill, So he 2262 02:53:05.200 --> 02:53:07.760 you know, he the guys who were guys who went 2263 02:53:07.840 --> 02:53:15.639 on to become real players on the Beltway, you know, 2264 02:53:15.760 --> 02:53:19.079 like like passed through like you know Professor Cox's class 2265 02:53:19.120 --> 02:53:23.959 at Harvard to a degree that's really kind of striking. 2266 02:53:25.239 --> 02:53:32.799 You know, he sired proverbially speaking, like many many intellectual offspring. 2267 02:53:35.360 --> 02:53:37.920 He became hugely influential in the labor field there an 2268 02:53:37.920 --> 02:53:41.559 even fifties. You know, this was the era where the 2269 02:53:41.639 --> 02:53:45.680 public intellectual was alive and well that as as you know, 2270 02:53:45.760 --> 02:53:50.879 that role, I mean the uh he was instrumental in 2271 02:53:50.959 --> 02:53:54.799 defining what became you know, kind of the controlling body 2272 02:53:55.000 --> 02:53:58.840 of industrial relations law. You know, for an entire generation. 2273 02:54:02.360 --> 02:54:08.319 You know, his UH is there's no man comparable with 2274 02:54:08.479 --> 02:54:12.200 who's got that that kind of influence, like in any field, 2275 02:54:12.239 --> 02:54:14.719 but particularly not the legal field. You know, these days 2276 02:54:16.719 --> 02:54:20.639 it's uh, you know, mind you this he wasn't just 2277 02:54:20.719 --> 02:54:22.559 like a you know, kind of like a celebrity legal 2278 02:54:22.639 --> 02:54:26.360 commentator like Dershowitz or something, you know, he was he 2279 02:54:26.520 --> 02:54:30.719 was a true like public intellectual and you know, in 2280 02:54:30.760 --> 02:54:34.000 the way, in the way Thomas Schelling was on the 2281 02:54:34.079 --> 02:54:39.959 side of like new nuclear war planning. Okay, Kennedy when 2282 02:54:39.959 --> 02:54:44.040 he was a freshman senator in ninety fifty three, decided 2283 02:54:44.040 --> 02:54:49.040 that labor relations would be kind of his primary point 2284 02:54:49.079 --> 02:54:52.559 of attack, you know, and he wanted to build his 2285 02:54:52.639 --> 02:54:57.639 policy resume on that, you know, which was which was smart, 2286 02:54:57.719 --> 02:54:59.639 and it also allowed him to kind of like play 2287 02:54:59.680 --> 02:55:04.280 the set on civil rights and things. He wrote to 2288 02:55:04.360 --> 02:55:08.559 Cox inviting him to testify with the Senate Subcommittee on 2289 02:55:08.680 --> 02:55:15.040 Labor and Public Welfare. Cox reciprocated his admiration and affection. 2290 02:55:17.000 --> 02:55:18.959 You know. He was he was gonna county his constituents. 2291 02:55:19.000 --> 02:55:25.200 He's a fellow Harvard man, you know. And most importantly, 2292 02:55:25.520 --> 02:55:28.879 I mean this, this really kind of made a star 2293 02:55:29.200 --> 02:55:32.200 like permanent. You know. He was he was already naturally 2294 02:55:32.239 --> 02:55:35.920 recognized academic expert on labor law, and this kind of 2295 02:55:36.000 --> 02:55:39.559 like you know, radical liberal democrat with a predecision towards 2296 02:55:39.639 --> 02:55:42.399 labor but now you know, like this popular freshman senator 2297 02:55:42.440 --> 02:55:44.799 that people are like bandying is going to be the 2298 02:55:44.840 --> 02:55:47.639 president someday, is you know, hitching his wag into his 2299 02:55:47.799 --> 02:55:53.079 own okay, out of the fall of nineteen fifty nine 2300 02:55:53.559 --> 02:55:54.879 or in the fall in nine fifty nine or rather, 2301 02:56:00.079 --> 02:56:04.520 there was an effort to beef up the Landrum Griffin Act, 2302 02:56:05.200 --> 02:56:07.200 which is a bipartis and effort to kind of butcherss 2303 02:56:07.239 --> 02:56:09.440 the taff Hartley Act, by way, have a sort of 2304 02:56:09.520 --> 02:56:13.360 legislative injunction. And this was the first in a series 2305 02:56:13.399 --> 02:56:17.520 of kind of shipping away of you know, the hegemony 2306 02:56:17.600 --> 02:56:22.159 that organized labor had had won throughout the New Deal years. 2307 02:56:25.239 --> 02:56:29.840 It under the under the osises of residentially premise upon 2308 02:56:29.879 --> 02:56:32.680 anti corruption and anti recodeering concerns, and it need to 2309 02:56:32.719 --> 02:56:37.159 you know, get organized crime out of out of out 2310 02:56:37.200 --> 02:56:43.079 of labor unions. It it allowed, uh, it allowed a 2311 02:56:43.120 --> 02:56:46.159 Senate subcommittee like very wide based police power to essentially 2312 02:56:46.239 --> 02:56:49.520 like force you know, unions above a certain membership, which 2313 02:56:49.719 --> 02:56:51.520 was a very low bar, you know, like open their 2314 02:56:51.559 --> 02:56:54.920 books essentially, you know. And these kinds of a lot 2315 02:56:55.079 --> 02:56:57.680 like these endless kind of like mafia related hearings, like 2316 02:56:57.719 --> 02:57:00.079 a lot of them like were premise upon initially at 2317 02:57:00.120 --> 02:57:03.520 least upon the power convert by Langem Griffin incidents at 2318 02:57:03.520 --> 02:57:07.319 taff Hartley. Just incidentally, this is important for context. I believe, 2319 02:57:07.559 --> 02:57:13.120 Sorry if I'm boring everybody to death. According to I 2320 02:57:13.159 --> 02:57:15.399 don't know, he's the topographal because other people have claimed 2321 02:57:15.440 --> 02:57:20.360 this too. It's believed that like outside of his own family, 2322 02:57:20.600 --> 02:57:23.120 Cox was the first man that Kennedy can fight it too, 2323 02:57:23.159 --> 02:57:26.879 that he's running for president, you know, he wrote he 2324 02:57:26.959 --> 02:57:30.360 approached Cox formally despite them by that point being quite friendly, 2325 02:57:31.520 --> 02:57:33.959 saying you needed to he would needed to quote tap 2326 02:57:34.040 --> 02:57:37.040 intellectual talent in the Cambridge era, you know, and basically 2327 02:57:37.040 --> 02:57:39.479 build kind of like a dream team of like public 2328 02:57:39.520 --> 02:57:43.920 intellectuals and academics, you know, and kind of go go 2329 02:57:44.760 --> 02:57:49.680 forward like all guns blazing at full frattle, you know, 2330 02:57:49.840 --> 02:57:53.479 on you know, kind of like we're forming the labor code, 2331 02:57:54.159 --> 02:57:57.280 you know, to bring it back to you know, what 2332 02:57:57.360 --> 02:57:59.920 had happened under the New Deal, but augmented by the 2333 02:58:00.159 --> 02:58:04.000 kind of like newfound postwar prosperity. You know, that that 2334 02:58:04.040 --> 02:58:07.760 will ease the burden on management. You know, very utopian, 2335 02:58:08.360 --> 02:58:11.559 very much kind of the very very much the language 2336 02:58:11.559 --> 02:58:13.479 of kind of like you know, the utopian socialism of 2337 02:58:13.520 --> 02:58:19.159 the day. And uh in turn, like Cox, he prodded 2338 02:58:19.200 --> 02:58:23.600 a lot of labor, both labor union types and as 2339 02:58:23.639 --> 02:58:26.680 well as a lot of academics who again had a 2340 02:58:26.719 --> 02:58:28.840 lot of cloud and policy playing circles like towards the 2341 02:58:28.879 --> 02:58:35.559 Kennedy camp. Okay, so to say that, to say that 2342 02:58:35.680 --> 02:58:37.959 Cox was insinuated into the into the kind of into 2343 02:58:37.959 --> 02:58:40.879 the kind of the Kennedy orbit, I mean he he 2344 02:58:40.959 --> 02:58:44.920 absolutely was like more than more than anybody, like not 2345 02:58:45.000 --> 02:58:50.760 a relation of the man could be, you know. In 2346 02:58:50.879 --> 02:58:57.120 nineteen sixty, Cox was appointed Solicitor General. Solicitor General is 2347 02:58:57.200 --> 02:58:59.360 something of an unusual role. He's kind of like corporation 2348 02:58:59.520 --> 02:59:07.040 council would function in a municipality or at the state level. 2349 02:59:08.440 --> 02:59:11.360 He basically acts as the government's lawyer before the Supreme Court. 2350 02:59:13.920 --> 02:59:18.399 It was in those days immensely influential, not just knowing 2351 02:59:18.479 --> 02:59:22.680 the fact that government had more clout than but this 2352 02:59:22.840 --> 02:59:24.799 was the War in Court era where the Supreme Court 2353 02:59:24.879 --> 02:59:27.079 and the Federal judiciary in general was like legislating from 2354 02:59:27.079 --> 02:59:31.639 the bench and everything from four six and fourthe Amendment 2355 02:59:31.680 --> 02:59:34.399 issues to these you know, civil rights acts all on 2356 02:59:34.520 --> 02:59:40.159 Sundry and you know, these these social engineering endeavors. It 2357 02:59:41.959 --> 02:59:46.360 basically it was uh Cox is ten year as Solicitor 2358 02:59:46.479 --> 02:59:53.120 General absolutely facilitated a lot of these things. Okay, So again, 2359 02:59:53.440 --> 02:59:57.040 like the idea that this man would behave in any 2360 02:59:57.120 --> 03:00:01.559 way once appointed as Special Pride Pecuter other than to 2361 03:00:01.639 --> 03:00:03.840 try and do everything he could to destroy Nixon is 2362 03:00:04.040 --> 03:00:11.239 a really insane you know. But again, it's incredibly smart 2363 03:00:11.280 --> 03:00:15.440 people and incredibly stupid people often like outsmart themselves by 2364 03:00:15.600 --> 03:00:22.479 by twisting themselves in a crazy conceptual contortions. And I 2365 03:00:22.559 --> 03:00:25.280 can't tell if Richardson was either like that stupid because 2366 03:00:25.280 --> 03:00:27.840 he was so smart or because he was such a fool, 2367 03:00:28.079 --> 03:00:32.840 But it's one or the other, because there's no there's 2368 03:00:32.879 --> 03:00:40.440 no other explanation. But that was that was Cox's background. 2369 03:00:40.559 --> 03:00:49.600 And in July of nineteen seventy three, Cox immediately requested 2370 03:00:49.639 --> 03:00:55.040 the White House tapes and then subpoenaed them, and not 2371 03:00:55.239 --> 03:00:59.760 just the White House tapes but all other wire taps 2372 03:01:00.319 --> 03:01:04.879 and extra judicial like non court ordered tapes that had 2373 03:01:04.920 --> 03:01:11.639 been you know, produced by you know, any anybody on 2374 03:01:11.719 --> 03:01:16.760 the executive staff. Obviously, the next administration refused to produce 2375 03:01:16.799 --> 03:01:19.000 these tapes and the executive privilege, and they were right. 2376 03:01:21.639 --> 03:01:25.000 And this dispute carried on until October and carried on 2377 03:01:25.120 --> 03:01:33.280 through the that the nineteen seventy three war. Cox seemed 2378 03:01:34.760 --> 03:01:36.680 some people like Paul Johnson and CLAYT. Cox was his 2379 03:01:36.799 --> 03:01:40.319 grandstanding for you know, a Democratic Congress, you know, so 2380 03:01:40.479 --> 03:01:42.840 he at every every turn, you know, he kind of 2381 03:01:42.879 --> 03:01:47.200 refused to abide not just that the honor of the presidency, 2382 03:01:48.120 --> 03:01:50.360 but also refused to give grant the benefit of the 2383 03:01:50.440 --> 03:01:55.520 doubt to Nixon the chief executive. I think I don't 2384 03:01:55.520 --> 03:01:57.399 I don't think that was it. Okay, I think I 2385 03:01:57.479 --> 03:01:59.600 mean he he was absolutely doing those things. He wasn't 2386 03:01:59.639 --> 03:02:03.159 doing it because of like simple you know, simple show 2387 03:02:03.200 --> 03:02:06.639 voting for a Democratic majority. Like he he utterly hated 2388 03:02:06.719 --> 03:02:11.319 Nixon and was exactly the kind of person who viewed 2389 03:02:11.360 --> 03:02:14.159 Nixon and the silent majority as UH as like the 2390 03:02:14.200 --> 03:02:20.399 epitome of of of of literal evil. On October twelfth, 2391 03:02:25.680 --> 03:02:31.559 Cox one uninjunction doesn't cure the right of access to 2392 03:02:31.639 --> 03:02:35.079 the tapes, UH, to the recordings of all Nixon's White 2393 03:02:35.079 --> 03:02:43.000 House conversations, and uh Nixon responded by firing Cox. Okay, 2394 03:02:44.040 --> 03:02:47.040 Now this is held out by people as oh that 2395 03:02:47.440 --> 03:02:50.639 you know, crazy Nixon trying to become a dictator. Look, 2396 03:02:50.920 --> 03:02:56.239 this man was literally appointed by Nixon's Attorney general. Okay, 2397 03:02:56.559 --> 03:03:00.920 and he's within one of the absurdities of Special Council 2398 03:03:01.399 --> 03:03:04.479 is he's within the executive chain of command. Like under 2399 03:03:04.520 --> 03:03:09.799 Article two, you can fire him, you know. I mean 2400 03:03:09.879 --> 03:03:15.799 and again it's you. Uh, it'd be like saying like 2401 03:03:16.600 --> 03:03:18.319 let's say like a court order. Let's say like you, 2402 03:03:19.719 --> 03:03:22.440 let's say you were like an incorrigible uh, like you know, 2403 03:03:22.799 --> 03:03:25.680 like traffic violator. Okay, if you like a court like 2404 03:03:25.840 --> 03:03:29.120 ordered you to like hire like a policeman or like 2405 03:03:29.159 --> 03:03:32.440 a parent in type to like follow you around and 2406 03:03:32.639 --> 03:03:35.319 you know you should do citations for speeding. Well, at 2407 03:03:35.319 --> 03:03:37.319 the same time, you pay him a salary, and you're 2408 03:03:37.319 --> 03:03:39.200 within your rights to fire him. Like then if you 2409 03:03:39.280 --> 03:03:41.719 fire him, they'll charge you with a crime. I mean. 2410 03:03:41.719 --> 03:03:47.239 It's it's like something it's it's like something that of 2411 03:03:47.239 --> 03:03:51.639 have not particularly creative, you know, like Joseph Heller kind 2412 03:03:51.680 --> 03:03:56.239 of sat attire or something. It was at this moment 2413 03:03:57.680 --> 03:04:01.559 you know that like like a firing cox is is 2414 03:04:01.639 --> 03:04:06.440 like breathlessly and and incomprehensively called the Saturday Night massacre. 2415 03:04:09.319 --> 03:04:12.799 Kind of all all this, all the hysteria usually associated 2416 03:04:13.079 --> 03:04:16.440 with the kind of Nixon which Hunt. It just just 2417 03:04:16.600 --> 03:04:18.639 it says they wanted to like absolute, like full frattle 2418 03:04:19.399 --> 03:04:23.200 after this. But I want to I want to get 2419 03:04:23.239 --> 03:04:35.440 back to the issue with with with Haig, he just 2420 03:04:35.520 --> 03:04:44.319 for one a second, Okay, he was alarmed by cox 2421 03:04:44.399 --> 03:04:47.879 As immediate plans to widen the Watergate investigation for a 2422 03:04:47.959 --> 03:04:51.079 few reasons. Hey kind of saw the writing on the wall. Okay, 2423 03:04:52.200 --> 03:04:57.440 Haig realized that the Watergate, like Watergate in of itself, 2424 03:04:57.520 --> 03:05:03.319 didn't really make sense. Haig had been very deeply involved 2425 03:05:03.520 --> 03:05:09.799 in to what degree is not clear, but even very 2426 03:05:09.840 --> 03:05:13.280 deeply involved in what came to be known as the 2427 03:05:13.680 --> 03:05:22.600 Houston Plan. Okay. The Houston Plan was an ongoing effort 2428 03:05:23.959 --> 03:05:26.760 to surveil people who are believed to be the source 2429 03:05:28.040 --> 03:05:33.000 of information weeks like the Pentagon papers. You know that 2430 03:05:34.159 --> 03:05:42.040 involved discloses a critical information of uh you know of 2431 03:05:42.200 --> 03:05:49.760 of of a national security imperative. Okay. Between ninety sixty 2432 03:05:50.000 --> 03:05:54.639 ninety seventy one, there'd been about seventeen extra judicial wire 2433 03:05:54.680 --> 03:05:58.079 taps of private persons who these private persons were will 2434 03:05:58.120 --> 03:06:00.799 get into in a moment, they'll see that there's some 2435 03:06:00.879 --> 03:06:12.840 of mischaracterized and Haig was, uh, pressure has brought to 2436 03:06:12.920 --> 03:06:19.719 bear on Haig did has closed what he knew. This 2437 03:06:19.879 --> 03:06:22.280 is when Coals began threatening to bring indictments again those 2438 03:06:22.399 --> 03:06:27.239 who had conducted and supervised the breaking the break in 2439 03:06:27.319 --> 03:06:31.159 of Elsburg's doctor psychiatrist's office, you know, doctor fielding with 2440 03:06:31.280 --> 03:06:43.079 the doctor. Haigg's rebuttal, without admitting knowledge of any wrongdoing, 2441 03:06:46.959 --> 03:06:53.600 was that any such disclosures that you know, derived from 2442 03:06:53.680 --> 03:06:59.319 such prosecutions by antenor accident would threaten national security and 2443 03:06:59.399 --> 03:07:03.760 grave capay cities because the White House plumbers were involved 2444 03:07:03.760 --> 03:07:08.520 in a highly classified matters, some which were related to 2445 03:07:08.639 --> 03:07:10.399 these wire taps, which we'll get into in a moment, 2446 03:07:10.520 --> 03:07:16.440 some of which were not. But Cox then responded by 2447 03:07:16.680 --> 03:07:20.600 uh subpoena documents relating to the purchase of Nixon's home 2448 03:07:20.680 --> 03:07:23.719 in San Clemente. You know, I mean, so this became, 2449 03:07:26.200 --> 03:07:28.120 it became, it became, it became very clear that this 2450 03:07:28.239 --> 03:07:36.639 was a witch hunt. By this point, Okay, when you're 2451 03:07:41.680 --> 03:07:46.680 when you're when when the scope of your investigation simply 2452 03:07:46.760 --> 03:07:50.360 widens every time that your stone walled with a refusal 2453 03:07:52.040 --> 03:07:55.799 biactual mission to cooperate with a threatened subpoena. It's not 2454 03:07:55.879 --> 03:08:00.200 even clear if that subpoena power it's constitutionally permis did 2455 03:08:01.360 --> 03:08:04.559 I mean you're not You're not talking about an investigation 2456 03:08:04.680 --> 03:08:10.319 in the public corruption based on you know, facts coming 2457 03:08:10.360 --> 03:08:13.639 to light that demanded, you know, and you're not talking 2458 03:08:13.639 --> 03:08:16.200 about you're not talking about due process as we think 2459 03:08:16.239 --> 03:08:17.799 of it. You know, you really are talking about a 2460 03:08:17.840 --> 03:08:22.639 wish hunt by this point, and I don't I don't 2461 03:08:22.680 --> 03:08:32.920 see how that can be contested. But a man of 2462 03:08:38.000 --> 03:08:47.920 in one second, Jade Burzards. He was named Special White 2463 03:08:47.920 --> 03:08:51.879 House Council for Watergate matters to the President on May tenth, 2464 03:08:53.200 --> 03:08:56.399 and Alexander Haig apparently confided in him quite a bit, 2465 03:09:00.000 --> 03:09:02.159 which kind of came with the role because again, Hig 2466 03:09:03.040 --> 03:09:07.520 became White House Chief of Staff following the resignation of Holliman. 2467 03:09:12.760 --> 03:09:15.399 He can fighted a buzzart that his role at the 2468 03:09:15.399 --> 03:09:17.399 White House to be temporary, and so he retained his 2469 03:09:17.479 --> 03:09:26.959 title at the Department of Defense, so essentially essentially saying like, 2470 03:09:27.000 --> 03:09:28.920 I'm just a placeholder, and one of the reasons I'm 2471 03:09:28.959 --> 03:09:33.879 here is because you know, the way I interpreted the 2472 03:09:34.000 --> 03:09:36.799 least one of the reasons I'm here is because you know, 2473 03:09:38.239 --> 03:09:43.399 I obviously you know my top priority is is guaranteeing 2474 03:09:45.120 --> 03:09:48.040 He's guaranteeing, you know, security, and it's in the integrity 2475 03:09:48.040 --> 03:10:00.239 of state seekers. The first task of UH, the first 2476 03:10:00.280 --> 03:10:03.920 ask a special council, Buzzart's, was to investigate fromer whaloes 2477 03:10:03.959 --> 03:10:10.760 Counsul John Dean. Dean was believed to possess classified documents. 2478 03:10:11.719 --> 03:10:17.239 And this is where you know, again the the kind 2479 03:10:17.239 --> 03:10:22.159 of entire narrative to some people of Watergate like revolves 2480 03:10:22.159 --> 03:10:24.079 around John Dean. That's about outside the scope of what 2481 03:10:24.120 --> 03:10:30.920 I want to tackle in this series. But what John 2482 03:10:31.000 --> 03:10:35.719 Dean had direct knowledge of was the Houston Plan. And 2483 03:10:36.799 --> 03:10:44.280 I believe the big concern about Dean being pressured, if 2484 03:10:44.280 --> 03:10:46.680 for no other reason then only to his connections the 2485 03:10:46.760 --> 03:10:53.440 intelligence community. Deans, I mean, Buzzart was convinced that these 2486 03:10:53.520 --> 03:10:57.200 documents related to what was called the Houston Plan. The 2487 03:10:57.239 --> 03:11:02.360 Houston Plan was a proposed banged and a domestic surveillance. Okay, 2488 03:11:05.879 --> 03:11:11.239 was it illegal as proposed? It was extra judicial? But 2489 03:11:11.399 --> 03:11:13.120 this is this is gonna kind of like the meat 2490 03:11:13.280 --> 03:11:17.000 of Watergate, Okay, like what and at the eleventh hour, 2491 03:11:17.120 --> 03:11:20.200 suddenly this became the rationalization like you see other goal 2492 03:11:20.239 --> 03:11:28.159 post was always changing between the Houston plant. What was 2493 03:11:28.280 --> 03:11:30.559 even plant first was a forty three page report and 2494 03:11:30.680 --> 03:11:40.719 outline posing security operations, surveillance espionage while you're tapping of 2495 03:11:40.879 --> 03:11:48.719 domestic targets. It is proposed it it was, it was 2496 03:11:48.760 --> 03:11:57.680 proposed in in nineteen sixty nine. It came to light 2497 03:12:01.760 --> 03:12:07.920 owing to Sam Urban's efforts, like what exactly, but like 2498 03:12:08.000 --> 03:12:09.840 how we came to know if it's existence isn't clear 2499 03:12:11.680 --> 03:12:14.360 Again to this this may have been like a Dean 2500 03:12:14.479 --> 03:12:17.479 league them may have Dean may have told they may 2501 03:12:17.479 --> 03:12:19.200 have just closed what he knew about it. He may 2502 03:12:19.239 --> 03:12:21.399 have his closed that he had documents relating to it, 2503 03:12:21.920 --> 03:12:23.399 and then his ace in the hole was saying like 2504 03:12:23.479 --> 03:12:26.040 I absolutely will not like release those documents unless, say, 2505 03:12:26.120 --> 03:12:36.120 you know, before an immunity qualified or otherwise. Conventional wisdom 2506 03:12:36.319 --> 03:12:44.399 is that Nixon rescinded the plan on July twenty eight, 2507 03:12:44.520 --> 03:12:48.079 nineteen seventy, after approving it only a few days before 2508 03:12:48.120 --> 03:12:54.120 in July twenty third. This has led to this kind 2509 03:12:54.120 --> 03:12:58.559 of hysterical refrain that for five days in nineteen seventy, 2510 03:12:58.639 --> 03:13:01.920 the fundamental guarantees that Bill Roy were suspended by the 2511 03:13:02.000 --> 03:13:05.360 mandate given the secret Houston Plan. Beau if like hevieus 2512 03:13:05.399 --> 03:13:08.719 corpus and new process has never been suspended before. And 2513 03:13:08.799 --> 03:13:10.600 then you know, most recently during you know, the Bush 2514 03:13:10.639 --> 03:13:14.680 forty three era. You know, before that during World War one, 2515 03:13:14.760 --> 03:13:21.079 world War two, during Roosevelt's you know, internment of a 2516 03:13:21.840 --> 03:13:25.399 you know, thousands of people based on subjective subjective national characteristics, 2517 03:13:26.120 --> 03:13:29.000 you know, his indictment of people under the sedition active 2518 03:13:29.000 --> 03:13:30.280 and the list goes on, no no, no, no, no, 2519 03:13:30.319 --> 03:13:36.680 no no. But the impetus for this report was, uh, 2520 03:13:38.200 --> 03:13:42.079 the belief that a lot of left wing radical NGOs 2521 03:13:42.120 --> 03:13:44.879 were in fact being funded by Warsaw Pact. That was 2522 03:13:44.959 --> 03:13:52.040 actually true. Okay, countercultural era a movement in general. I 2523 03:13:52.120 --> 03:13:54.120 think it was like the anti war movement which seemed 2524 03:13:54.159 --> 03:13:56.399 to emerge out of nowhere and was flushed with money. 2525 03:13:57.840 --> 03:14:00.879 Was you know it was it was an enemy okay. 2526 03:14:05.079 --> 03:14:13.719 Jaegrew Hoover initially back the Houston Plan. Also Houston himself 2527 03:14:13.760 --> 03:14:18.639 at or closely with William Sullivan, who was uh, William C. 2528 03:14:18.760 --> 03:14:23.399 Sullivan who was one of humors assistant Hoover's assistants, and 2529 03:14:23.520 --> 03:14:26.159 drawing up the options listed what eventually became you know 2530 03:14:26.239 --> 03:14:32.840 the Houston Plan. The plan called for you know, domestic burglary, 2531 03:14:33.200 --> 03:14:38.719 electronic surveillance, surveilling of male of domestic radicals. Okay, like 2532 03:14:38.799 --> 03:14:44.959 in broad terms at one time, it's uh, it calls 2533 03:14:45.000 --> 03:14:48.559 for a suspension of habeas corpus in the case of 2534 03:14:49.280 --> 03:14:51.440 you know, people like the Weathermen who were known to 2535 03:14:51.479 --> 03:14:56.000 be involved in terrorist activities and allow their detainment you know, 2536 03:14:56.120 --> 03:15:02.399 without you know, like formal arraignment or indictment incidents. Uh, 2537 03:15:03.360 --> 03:15:06.959 you know, clear clear and present danger, which like I said, 2538 03:15:07.079 --> 03:15:11.079 I there is precedent for that, for better or worse. 2539 03:15:15.719 --> 03:15:23.040 Nixon RADI. Nixon ratified these proposals, and they were submitted 2540 03:15:23.200 --> 03:15:29.440 uh two FBI, Central Intelligence, d I A, and the 2541 03:15:29.520 --> 03:15:34.360 National Security Agency. So again this you have Hoover collaborating 2542 03:15:34.440 --> 03:15:41.120 on this, you have White House Council liaising with the 2543 03:15:41.280 --> 03:15:49.879 FBI on this. You have uh, the director of every 2544 03:15:50.000 --> 03:15:54.159 one of the major intelligence organizations that constitute the National 2545 03:15:54.200 --> 03:15:59.159 Security Apparatus being literally like availed to this document. Like 2546 03:15:59.239 --> 03:16:01.639 the idea that this was like Nixon developing some secret 2547 03:16:01.719 --> 03:16:04.719 spy for wars or something is laughable, you know, to 2548 03:16:04.760 --> 03:16:08.920 say nothing of the fact that he rescinded it five 2549 03:16:09.000 --> 03:16:15.000 days later, and there's this incredible in nineteen seventy three. 2550 03:16:17.040 --> 03:16:19.440 The world's on the prank and nuclear war at that 2551 03:16:19.600 --> 03:16:22.040 time and about every decade, you know, and it ends 2552 03:16:22.120 --> 03:16:27.000 up there the American streets being torn apart by race wars. 2553 03:16:28.799 --> 03:16:33.040 This is an incredibly brutal war in Southeast Asia that 2554 03:16:33.120 --> 03:16:37.520 has just come to close, you know, the third World terrorism. 2555 03:16:37.680 --> 03:16:41.120 There's terrorism on the streets and planes are being hijacked 2556 03:16:41.159 --> 03:16:44.680 all over the place. Yeah, what the seventies is unless 2557 03:16:44.719 --> 03:16:47.079 you yeah, unless you've studied it or lived through it. 2558 03:16:47.920 --> 03:16:49.719 Yeah, and then and then you got these you got 2559 03:16:49.760 --> 03:16:53.120 you got these dipshit, You got these dipshit Washington lawyers, 2560 03:16:53.719 --> 03:16:56.120 you know, like getting like teary eyed and saying, you know, 2561 03:16:56.239 --> 03:16:58.559 this is the day, this is the day democracy died. 2562 03:16:59.159 --> 03:17:01.680 You know, not I guess, I guess, I guess it 2563 03:17:01.719 --> 03:17:05.079 didn't die when like Habeas Corpus was suspended and a 2564 03:17:05.120 --> 03:17:07.559 bunch of people are suspected sympathizing with the South were 2565 03:17:07.600 --> 03:17:12.360 just like locked up without trial like mister Lincoln's order. 2566 03:17:12.840 --> 03:17:14.440 I'm not saying that like translink and I'm saying that 2567 03:17:14.520 --> 03:17:19.280 as what happened, but it the so like very very 2568 03:17:19.360 --> 03:17:25.079 suddenly the very very very very suddenly the Houston plan, 2569 03:17:25.559 --> 03:17:27.120 Like oh now, now this is now, this is the 2570 03:17:27.200 --> 03:17:29.159 reason for you know this, this why Nixon must go, 2571 03:17:29.799 --> 03:17:37.760 you know, and who are these out of the uh, 2572 03:17:39.200 --> 03:17:44.120 out of the intelligence and in law enforcement establishment aforementioned 2573 03:17:45.559 --> 03:17:50.440 Only Hoover objected to the plan and and pressured the 2574 03:17:50.520 --> 03:17:56.520 attorney and pressure then Attorney General John Mitchell to to 2575 03:17:56.799 --> 03:18:00.280 get Nixon's ear to rescind it. Like why Hoover thought 2576 03:18:00.280 --> 03:18:03.959 it was a bad plan. There's a few reasons in 2577 03:18:04.000 --> 03:18:08.200 my mind, but it wasn't because he was, you know, 2578 03:18:08.520 --> 03:18:11.079 horrified at the thought that the Bill rights might be corrupted. 2579 03:18:11.159 --> 03:18:15.719 But you know, this is presented as a case of oh, 2580 03:18:15.799 --> 03:18:20.120 you know, like regular people or like college teachers or whatever. 2581 03:18:22.079 --> 03:18:25.440 Just you know, John and JQ public were being set 2582 03:18:25.479 --> 03:18:28.959 up to be terrorised by the government. Okay, here's here's 2583 03:18:29.000 --> 03:18:31.360 a list of the people who were actually placed on 2584 03:18:31.440 --> 03:18:34.879 surveillance incident to the provisions of the he was in planning, 2585 03:18:34.920 --> 03:18:41.559 I can implemented one Martin Helper and who's a National 2586 03:18:41.600 --> 03:18:47.319 Security Council staffer and a consultant UH Democratic Presidental cannedy 2587 03:18:47.440 --> 03:18:51.719 Edmund Muskie. His phone was tapped from May sixty nine 2588 03:18:51.719 --> 03:18:56.000 to thirty seventy one. Daniel Davidson, another NSC staff member 2589 03:18:58.360 --> 03:19:03.520 who UH who Hoover ultimately had fired Colonel Robert Roberty 2590 03:19:03.600 --> 03:19:09.239 Persley then Melvin Lair, a Secretary of Defense adjutant a 2591 03:19:09.319 --> 03:19:14.120 whole lot of em earlier administrations in the wake of 2592 03:19:14.159 --> 03:19:16.959 the Cambodian invasion. It was believed that he was the 2593 03:19:17.040 --> 03:19:20.159 source of the leagues to national media. Okay, this is 2594 03:19:20.200 --> 03:19:23.079 a bird colonel, you know, serving the Secretary of State, 2595 03:19:23.159 --> 03:19:29.440 Secretary of Defense Helmet Sunenfeldt Uh, a sovietologist and National 2596 03:19:29.479 --> 03:19:34.000 Security council who served in the State Department. Haig wrote 2597 03:19:34.040 --> 03:19:35.799 his name to the FBI because it was believed that 2598 03:19:35.840 --> 03:19:38.559 he might be a mole for for East Bloc intelligence 2599 03:19:41.760 --> 03:19:46.120 named Henry Brandon. He was the London Times, the London 2600 03:19:46.200 --> 03:19:52.920 Sunday Times correspondent liaison to Washington. He was friendly personally 2601 03:19:52.959 --> 03:19:54.239 with Henry Kissinger. 2602 03:19:56.440 --> 03:19:56.879 And UH. 2603 03:19:57.959 --> 03:20:04.120 Kissinger presented him to Hoover through a third party as 2604 03:20:04.200 --> 03:20:07.799 a man who had strong connections with Ali Fornes intelligence services, 2605 03:20:08.399 --> 03:20:12.360 so presumably tamping his phone. You know, he wasn't at 2606 03:20:12.360 --> 03:20:14.399 the target, but you know whoever he might be speaking to, 2607 03:20:15.079 --> 03:20:21.559 particularly those you know, who might be a on both 2608 03:20:21.600 --> 03:20:26.319 sides of the Iron curtain. John Sears, his assistant to 2609 03:20:26.360 --> 03:20:30.719 White House counsel John Erlickman, later became Reagan's campaign manager 2610 03:20:32.000 --> 03:20:35.040 until he was until he was on cere whence he fired. 2611 03:20:37.079 --> 03:20:41.000 And WILLIAMS. Safire, who'd been a he was he was 2612 03:20:41.040 --> 03:20:44.319 the New York Times writer columnist, and that's what he's 2613 03:20:44.360 --> 03:20:48.399 most known for. The people our agent. He was a 2614 03:20:49.040 --> 03:20:58.360 White House speech writer at UH wasn't clear what Safire 2615 03:20:58.440 --> 03:21:00.360 was on the list, but again like he was, you know, 2616 03:21:00.520 --> 03:21:06.920 very much, very much a public figure. The two kind 2617 03:21:06.920 --> 03:21:10.840 of outliers where Marvin Kel was a CBS and an 2618 03:21:11.000 --> 03:21:14.520 NBC reporter, and William Beecher was a report of the 2619 03:21:14.600 --> 03:21:19.399 New York Times and the Boston Globe. But again too, 2620 03:21:20.840 --> 03:21:24.799 you know, the media was acted, especially the print media. 2621 03:21:26.719 --> 03:21:29.920 They were they were they were, they were engaged in 2622 03:21:30.079 --> 03:21:36.920 actively publicizing eyes only documents relating to the critical national 2623 03:21:37.040 --> 03:21:40.079 security of the United States. You know, So none of these, 2624 03:21:40.760 --> 03:21:44.719 none of these people under war conditions which were underway 2625 03:21:46.879 --> 03:21:49.159 in ninety seventy three or from ninety sixty nine to 2626 03:21:49.319 --> 03:21:51.000 you know, seventy one, like it should have been like 2627 03:21:51.120 --> 03:22:00.159 off limits or something, you know, the remaining UH, the 2628 03:22:00.280 --> 03:22:07.399 remaining targets. UH Richard F. Peterson States Bari councilor Williamate 2629 03:22:07.479 --> 03:22:12.000 Sullivan Ambassador of Laus Anthony Lake, an NSC specialist in 2630 03:22:12.159 --> 03:22:16.959 Vietnam who had very much a murky career. He was 2631 03:22:17.000 --> 03:22:20.079 probably a spook, is what I'm getting at. Under light 2632 03:22:20.120 --> 03:22:24.239 dolomatic cover Winston Lord, China specialist in the NSC staff. 2633 03:22:26.879 --> 03:22:31.680 And UH James H. James McLean was a staff member 2634 03:22:33.319 --> 03:22:39.440 with ties to UH Rockefeller, kind of liberal Republicans like Health, 2635 03:22:39.520 --> 03:22:46.120 Education and Welfare Secretary Robert Finch. He was close the 2636 03:22:46.200 --> 03:22:53.680 former gardner of Massachusetts, Francis Sergeant McLean was was briefly 2637 03:22:53.719 --> 03:22:55.959 tapped for ever of weeks at Halliman's of warquest. I mean, 2638 03:22:56.000 --> 03:23:00.680 who knows why, but that's where that that was it. 2639 03:23:01.000 --> 03:23:05.200 That was the extent of private citizens tapped by the 2640 03:23:05.520 --> 03:23:11.440 precepts of the Houston Plan, you know. And that was 2641 03:23:16.399 --> 03:23:26.000 and after, you know, after after Nixon lost the fight 2642 03:23:28.639 --> 03:23:33.440 to give up the tapes, Nixon has still been ahead 2643 03:23:33.479 --> 03:23:39.440 in the polls until publication of the tape extracts. The 2644 03:23:39.520 --> 03:23:43.040 tape extracts says printed we're very much doctored. Many marks 2645 03:23:43.040 --> 03:23:46.639 have exploited, deleted, you know, persuaded members that Nixon and 2646 03:23:46.719 --> 03:23:51.520 his team were constantly swearing, you know, and habitually uttering obscenities, 2647 03:23:51.559 --> 03:23:54.680 which sounds corny today, it's made like a difference, you know, 2648 03:23:54.719 --> 03:23:58.040 it was they were kind of cast in a light. 2649 03:24:00.079 --> 03:24:08.840 It's putative. Yeah, there's rumors constantly bandied that all these 2650 03:24:08.879 --> 03:24:11.200 tops have been these tapes have been doctored and censored 2651 03:24:11.879 --> 03:24:14.200 by Nixon and his staff, you know, like the media 2652 03:24:14.280 --> 03:24:16.360 was claiming this. So anything you read, it's way worse 2653 03:24:16.399 --> 03:24:21.719 than what you're reading, you know. But so as the 2654 03:24:21.799 --> 03:24:28.040 pollster and moving against Nixon, you know, the machinery impeachment 2655 03:24:28.239 --> 03:24:32.280 is brought into play in a true sense, the impeachment process, 2656 03:24:32.399 --> 03:24:35.479 the way it works, its specified an Article one. Obviously, 2657 03:24:38.600 --> 03:24:43.639 Article one, Section two and three provides for the president 2658 03:24:43.680 --> 03:24:46.440 of the impeach where offenses describe an Article two, section four. 2659 03:24:47.479 --> 03:24:50.600 That's where treeson bribery or other high crimes and misdemeanors. 2660 03:24:50.639 --> 03:24:54.239 That's where that phraseology comes from. I mean, in reality though, 2661 03:24:54.280 --> 03:24:56.440 it just me it's it's just politicians sitting in judgment 2662 03:24:56.479 --> 03:25:00.920 and one another. You know. Andrew Johnson got impeached because 2663 03:25:00.920 --> 03:25:03.959 he was like a Southern patriot and a bunch of 2664 03:25:04.079 --> 03:25:06.920 radicals and people wanted to you know, and people wanted 2665 03:25:06.959 --> 03:25:08.479 to like hang him anf figy for the death of 2666 03:25:08.520 --> 03:25:12.920 mister Lincoln, like said to impeach him, you know, like 2667 03:25:13.040 --> 03:25:16.559 like bitch made retards, you know, want to uh who 2668 03:25:16.719 --> 03:25:21.559 uh who have some kind of like superstitious hatred of 2669 03:25:21.639 --> 03:25:24.440 Donald Trump? You know they they get off on impeaching him. 2670 03:25:26.840 --> 03:25:29.879 I mean that's you know, that's but but the actual 2671 03:25:30.000 --> 03:25:33.920 like process that follows the House Judgery Committee is like 2672 03:25:34.000 --> 03:25:36.040 the court of like first Review, Like they're like the 2673 03:25:36.479 --> 03:25:44.399 reigning court basically like what what amounts will they they 2674 03:25:44.440 --> 03:25:46.680 sent off on what amounts to a fighting of problem cause? 2675 03:25:50.520 --> 03:25:56.479 And uh then it goes to the and then it 2676 03:25:56.559 --> 03:25:59.159 goes to the Senate. But the two thirds majority is 2677 03:25:59.239 --> 03:26:05.959 required for a conviction. Like the actual article that comes 2678 03:26:05.959 --> 03:26:08.280 before the House. The Detrict Committee is is is literally 2679 03:26:08.360 --> 03:26:10.680 one of the foreign organization of the articles of impeachment. 2680 03:26:11.200 --> 03:26:13.760 The Senate then tries the accused of these articles you know, 2681 03:26:13.799 --> 03:26:17.000 like any other like like an like any other trial. Basically, 2682 03:26:17.920 --> 03:26:24.559 you know, a two days majority is required for conviction, 2683 03:26:24.680 --> 03:26:27.920 at which time the convicteds removed from office. It's qualified 2684 03:26:27.959 --> 03:26:31.920 to holding any subsequent office under the Constitution in the future. 2685 03:26:33.879 --> 03:26:38.719 Nick Son's view early on was that, uh, it was 2686 03:26:38.799 --> 03:26:41.079 like the House to repert stamp the article of impeachment, 2687 03:26:41.319 --> 03:26:43.760 but that they'd never get through two years majority in 2688 03:26:43.799 --> 03:26:52.239 the Senate, the House Judirie Committee there was twenty one 2689 03:26:52.280 --> 03:26:56.959 Democrats and seventeen Republicans. Eighteen to twenty one. Democrats were 2690 03:26:57.000 --> 03:26:59.319 certain to vote for impeachment no matter what, just because 2691 03:26:59.319 --> 03:27:02.000 they hated him and they were absolute partisans. So the 2692 03:27:02.040 --> 03:27:07.680 committee was a stacked deck as it developed. All twenty 2693 03:27:07.719 --> 03:27:10.200 one Democrats and six of the Republicans, six out of 2694 03:27:10.239 --> 03:27:19.120 seventeen voted for impeachment and recommended I and voted to 2695 03:27:19.159 --> 03:27:26.959 recommend Pee into the full House. There was no doubt 2696 03:27:30.559 --> 03:27:32.719 look mixed of the first His reasoning was that he 2697 03:27:32.799 --> 03:27:34.760 wanted to get in his public career as a fighter. 2698 03:27:35.120 --> 03:27:37.479 He actually wrote that down and Nixon wasn't a prol 2699 03:27:37.520 --> 03:27:39.680 big diars. He jotted that down on a pad of paper, 2700 03:27:40.440 --> 03:27:45.559 in public career as a fighter, and he thought, even 2701 03:27:45.639 --> 03:27:48.120 if convicted, you know, there would be the opportunity to 2702 03:27:48.200 --> 03:27:55.479 defend himself in public. And uh, the odds of it. 2703 03:27:55.559 --> 03:28:01.280 Two thres majority again were not particularly strong. Andrew Johnson 2704 03:28:01.280 --> 03:28:07.000 had survived by a single vote famously, and by that 2705 03:28:07.159 --> 03:28:10.879 time there had been twelve instances of the House moving 2706 03:28:10.920 --> 03:28:14.040 to impeach a public official, and the Senate had only 2707 03:28:14.079 --> 03:28:24.280 convicted on four occasions. But Nixon, Nixon in nineteen sixty 2708 03:28:24.399 --> 03:28:30.319 shown through subsequently. I mean, he realized there'd been incalculable 2709 03:28:30.440 --> 03:28:34.959 damage done to the executive end of the country by 2710 03:28:35.079 --> 03:28:41.600 the which hunt, by the entire charade. You know, America 2711 03:28:41.799 --> 03:28:46.760 was a nation just coming off of a general war. 2712 03:28:49.360 --> 03:28:53.639 The future is very uncertain. The Soviets that achieved nuclear 2713 03:28:53.719 --> 03:28:58.120 parody and strategic terms and were winning on the battlefield, 2714 03:29:01.239 --> 03:29:05.440 the impeachment process itself, I mean, even if Nixon's successor 2715 03:29:05.559 --> 03:29:07.840 was a real executive, which basically was no chance of 2716 03:29:09.280 --> 03:29:13.719 the impeachment process itself, would would be head the executive 2717 03:29:14.799 --> 03:29:18.079 you know, at a time when NATO was quite fragile, 2718 03:29:20.120 --> 03:29:23.120 you know, in the UH in the anti communist block, 2719 03:29:23.200 --> 03:29:27.360 would such be like literally headless, you know, in Nixon's mind. 2720 03:29:29.360 --> 03:29:30.559 And it's clear if you know what to look for 2721 03:29:30.680 --> 03:29:34.479 in his statements on it, and they're not self serving. Next, 2722 03:29:34.520 --> 03:29:37.559 I'm not playing martyrs. He's entirely right like, had he 2723 03:29:37.680 --> 03:29:43.719 not stepped down, he would have been playing directly into 2724 03:29:43.760 --> 03:29:49.639 the hands of the Soviet Union and at a critical 2725 03:29:49.719 --> 03:29:52.440 juncture it may have given them what they needed to 2726 03:29:52.559 --> 03:30:01.159 win next and decided, obviously in the national news, to resign, 2727 03:30:04.440 --> 03:30:09.680 other than stand to be impeached. Nixon's hope had been 2728 03:30:12.120 --> 03:30:15.639 that John Connolly for a governor of Texas, you know, 2729 03:30:15.680 --> 03:30:17.719 who'd been who got shot, you know, and the same 2730 03:30:17.840 --> 03:30:22.120 that Kennedy was murdered, would be a successor. And had 2731 03:30:23.159 --> 03:30:27.760 you know, had Nixon seen out his term, he was 2732 03:30:27.799 --> 03:30:33.520 gonna back Connolly in seventy six. But it's uh such 2733 03:30:33.600 --> 03:30:37.920 that it was Ford. Ford was a like a good guy, 2734 03:30:38.159 --> 03:30:40.040 like morally, like he had no vices, and by all 2735 03:30:40.079 --> 03:30:42.600 accounts he was like a decent man. But you know, 2736 03:30:42.719 --> 03:30:46.719 Ford was like a non entity. And there's no you know, 2737 03:30:46.840 --> 03:30:50.920 there's no way anybody truly affiliated with Nixon would have 2738 03:30:50.959 --> 03:30:56.200 gotten would have gotten a nod for the job after 2739 03:30:56.360 --> 03:31:02.399 Nixon's removal. But that's basically Watergate, man, Like you give 2740 03:31:02.440 --> 03:31:04.239 me the scatter shot. There's like a lot there that 2741 03:31:04.280 --> 03:31:05.799 I wanted to like get in that we weren't able 2742 03:31:05.840 --> 03:31:08.680 to before. And I hope it didn't seem to disjointed. 2743 03:31:10.159 --> 03:31:13.600 Now, what do you think if Nickon finishes his term 2744 03:31:13.719 --> 03:31:17.520 out these two term president full full two terms, gets 2745 03:31:17.559 --> 03:31:21.040 what done what he needs to be done, at least 2746 03:31:21.200 --> 03:31:24.159 for you know, a couple of years there, or at 2747 03:31:24.239 --> 03:31:26.959 least for a decade. How do you think the country 2748 03:31:27.079 --> 03:31:27.479 is different? 2749 03:31:28.920 --> 03:31:33.559 The strategic landscape is different because North Vietnam doesn't win 2750 03:31:33.600 --> 03:31:39.959 the war. There's a stalemate, you know, like the like 2751 03:31:40.040 --> 03:31:44.360 the like the like this the final offensive like never happens, 2752 03:31:44.920 --> 03:31:50.319 you know, because uh, the pairis piece, the treaties afforded, 2753 03:31:51.600 --> 03:32:03.000 agreement is is enforced. Also, there's, uh, there's the Cold War. 2754 03:32:03.440 --> 03:32:09.600 The way it ends plays out differently because Nixon remains 2755 03:32:09.680 --> 03:32:15.159 very much in the driver's seat of policy. And there 2756 03:32:15.200 --> 03:32:17.559 never would have been this situation where you know, a 2757 03:32:17.680 --> 03:32:21.760 decade goes by and there's no communication, you know, between 2758 03:32:22.559 --> 03:32:25.680 the Soviet executive and the president of United States. It's 2759 03:32:25.760 --> 03:32:32.280 like how that developed would have been interesting. And I 2760 03:32:32.360 --> 03:32:39.879 think a possibility of like real strategic nuclear disarmament before 2761 03:32:39.959 --> 03:32:45.280 the collapse of the Soviet Union would have been realizable. 2762 03:32:45.399 --> 03:32:49.719 But it's it's hard to say. Otherwise Nixon did get 2763 03:32:49.760 --> 03:32:52.520 is like the Burger Court was I mean, Nixon was 2764 03:32:52.559 --> 03:32:58.079 able to pack like the federal judiciary and you know, 2765 03:32:58.159 --> 03:33:01.719 Renquist was this guy. You know, it's I'm in rentalist. 2766 03:33:03.600 --> 03:33:06.000 So I mean a lot of a lot of Nixon's 2767 03:33:06.280 --> 03:33:09.719 legacy like was realized, you know, set up the EPA 2768 03:33:09.840 --> 03:33:11.600 and stuff. I ever what he feels about that. It's 2769 03:33:11.600 --> 03:33:14.120 been like impactful, but it's it's hard to say. I'm 2770 03:33:14.159 --> 03:33:16.040 oriented towards you know, the Cold War side of it 2771 03:33:16.319 --> 03:33:23.200 and things like that. But you wouldn't have a gilded executive, Okay, 2772 03:33:23.239 --> 03:33:25.280 that's the big I think that's what you're looking for. Okay, 2773 03:33:25.399 --> 03:33:29.840 Like there wouldn't you would do this bizarre situation like 2774 03:33:29.920 --> 03:33:32.639 the presidents is kind of like the cipher, and you've 2775 03:33:32.680 --> 03:33:36.079 got this like Soviet like gerontocracy that's impossibly get rid of, 2776 03:33:36.200 --> 03:33:39.200 and the legislature and the judiciary, you know, and you 2777 03:33:39.319 --> 03:33:41.360 and you have like basically like a headless executive that 2778 03:33:41.479 --> 03:33:45.120 just kind of exists, you know, and it's kind of 2779 03:33:45.200 --> 03:33:48.040 like a magnet for you know, sort of like pure 2780 03:33:48.079 --> 03:33:53.000 island manufactured controversies and political theater and stuff. So you 2781 03:33:53.120 --> 03:33:56.120 have so other country functions more like it did you know, 2782 03:33:56.319 --> 03:34:02.959 like you know, from like Trueman to Kennedy and Nixon himself. 2783 03:34:06.000 --> 03:34:09.280 All right, well to plug and we'll get out of here. 2784 03:34:10.600 --> 03:34:16.799 Yeah sure, I'm uh. I'm soundproving my like home office here, 2785 03:34:16.879 --> 03:34:18.840 and I'm doing all kinds of sexy stuff, like getting 2786 03:34:18.840 --> 03:34:20.440 all kinds of like I'm getting like this like fucking 2787 03:34:20.600 --> 03:34:26.559 like outer space like ergonomic chair and stuff. And I 2788 03:34:26.680 --> 03:34:29.440 just got like this brand new gimbal so I'm like 2789 03:34:29.559 --> 03:34:35.079 sexing up my production gear so long last I'm gonna 2790 03:34:35.079 --> 03:34:37.399 be able to get into like a proper like workflow schema. 2791 03:34:38.159 --> 03:34:42.520 Fresh stuff is coming, I promise for right now. You 2792 03:34:42.600 --> 03:34:45.520 can find me on substack. That's where the podcast is, 2793 03:34:45.879 --> 03:34:47.680 That's where our chat is. That's where some of my 2794 03:34:48.520 --> 03:34:52.399 medium form writing is. It's real Tom. It's seven seven 2795 03:34:52.479 --> 03:34:56.000 seven dot substay dot com. Check out my website. It's 2796 03:34:56.120 --> 03:34:59.120 number seven h m as seven seven seven dot com. 2797 03:35:00.079 --> 03:35:04.280 Check me out an X real capital R cavil e 2798 03:35:04.760 --> 03:35:11.719 capital A capital L, number seven lowercase h M E 2799 03:35:11.920 --> 03:35:16.040 S seven seven seven. That's where I'm at. 2800 03:35:17.120 --> 03:35:20.280 All that stuff is going to be as always in 2801 03:35:20.479 --> 03:35:24.200 the UH show notes of every episode that Thomas is on, 2802 03:35:25.440 --> 03:35:26.639 Thank you Thomas, appreciate it. 2803 03:35:26.719 --> 03:35:27.159 A human