1 00:00:00,040 --> 00:00:02,120 Speaker 1: So I want you to just picture this classic science 2 00:00:02,160 --> 00:00:06,120 fiction scenario for a second. You are standing in the sleek, 3 00:00:06,320 --> 00:00:10,880 brightly lit corridor of this massive generational starship. 4 00:00:11,039 --> 00:00:13,119 Speaker 2: Oh right, like the ultimate sci fi trope. 5 00:00:13,199 --> 00:00:16,359 Speaker 1: Exactly. Humanity has finally packed its collector bags. You know, 6 00:00:16,839 --> 00:00:21,480 We've boarded this colossal vessel, leaving this worn out, completely 7 00:00:21,519 --> 00:00:24,160 depleted Earth behind in the rear view mirror. 8 00:00:24,280 --> 00:00:27,879 Speaker 2: Yeah, just abandoning shit, right, and we are preparing to 9 00:00:28,879 --> 00:00:32,159 basically hibernate our way across the cosmos to this pristine, 10 00:00:32,640 --> 00:00:33,600 untouched planet. 11 00:00:33,600 --> 00:00:36,240 Speaker 1: B It's a trope we have all seen in one 12 00:00:36,280 --> 00:00:37,880 hundred different movies and novels. 13 00:00:37,960 --> 00:00:40,960 Speaker 2: Yeah, it's the ultimate fantasy of the clean slate, really 14 00:00:41,159 --> 00:00:41,920 a fresh start. 15 00:00:42,039 --> 00:00:44,920 Speaker 1: But what is the most shocking paradigm shifting clue to 16 00:00:45,000 --> 00:00:48,280 our actual place in the universe. Isn't some pristine Earth 17 00:00:48,359 --> 00:00:50,719 two point zero waiting for us light years away? 18 00:00:50,759 --> 00:00:53,600 Speaker 2: Well, the universe really conforms to our idealized narratives. 19 00:00:53,759 --> 00:00:55,759 Speaker 1: Exactly. What if the revelation we've been waiting for is 20 00:00:55,799 --> 00:00:59,520 actually wrapped in the distinct, just unmistakable scent of decaying 21 00:00:59,600 --> 00:01:02,600 organic matter. Oh man, and it's floating in a toxic 22 00:01:02,679 --> 00:01:05,599 skin melting cloud right next door in our very own 23 00:01:05,680 --> 00:01:06,400 solar system. 24 00:01:06,680 --> 00:01:09,120 Speaker 2: See that is That's the thing. We spend so much 25 00:01:09,159 --> 00:01:13,040 time modeling the cosmos based on our own biological. 26 00:01:12,400 --> 00:01:14,719 Speaker 1: Preferences, right, looking for a mirror. 27 00:01:14,480 --> 00:01:17,400 Speaker 2: Exactly, looking for the perfect mirror image of Earth out 28 00:01:17,400 --> 00:01:21,480 there in the dark. We want tempered oceans, stable continence, 29 00:01:21,959 --> 00:01:24,319 a nice nitrogen oxygen atmosphere. 30 00:01:24,400 --> 00:01:26,719 Speaker 1: We want a comfortable vacation home. Basically we do. 31 00:01:27,480 --> 00:01:32,359 Speaker 2: Yet the physical reality of the universe is largely hostile, bizarre, 32 00:01:32,400 --> 00:01:35,040 and utterly indifferent to human comfort. 33 00:01:34,799 --> 00:01:39,120 Speaker 1: Which brings us to today. Welcome to thrilling threads everyone. Yeah, 34 00:01:39,200 --> 00:01:42,319 we are diving into a thread today that totally dismantles 35 00:01:42,359 --> 00:01:43,879 a lot of those comfortable assumptions. 36 00:01:43,920 --> 00:01:45,480 Speaker 2: It really does. It upends everything. 37 00:01:45,599 --> 00:01:49,120 Speaker 1: Okay, let's untack this. We are looking at this incredibly 38 00:01:49,239 --> 00:01:52,599 dense and just thought provoking video from the Big Sink 39 00:01:52,640 --> 00:01:53,280 YouTube channel. 40 00:01:53,359 --> 00:01:55,439 Speaker 2: Yeah, the one featuring Professor Sarah Seeger. 41 00:01:55,680 --> 00:01:58,879 Speaker 1: Right, it's titled the planet in our Solar System that's 42 00:01:58,920 --> 00:02:01,760 hiding a weird seat. Sarah Seger And if you don't 43 00:02:01,760 --> 00:02:05,159 know her, she's a renowned astrophysicist and planetary scientist at MIT. 44 00:02:05,480 --> 00:02:08,400 Speaker 2: Her work sits right at the absolute bleeding edge of 45 00:02:08,520 --> 00:02:09,639 exoplanet research. 46 00:02:09,919 --> 00:02:12,879 Speaker 1: It really does. And the mission of our show today, 47 00:02:12,960 --> 00:02:16,039 our goal as the three of us, you, the listener, 48 00:02:16,080 --> 00:02:18,039 and the two of us, is to break down the 49 00:02:18,080 --> 00:02:20,560 actual mechanics of how we look for distant worlds. 50 00:02:20,879 --> 00:02:24,120 Speaker 2: And we're going to get into the staggering atmospheric chemistry 51 00:02:24,159 --> 00:02:25,240 hovering over Venus. 52 00:02:25,319 --> 00:02:28,319 Speaker 1: Yeah, that part is wild, and ultimately we're going to 53 00:02:28,360 --> 00:02:33,120 explore why the pursuit of alien life fundamentally forces us 54 00:02:33,759 --> 00:02:36,080 to hold a mirror up to our own existence. 55 00:02:36,479 --> 00:02:39,639 Speaker 2: What's fascinating here is that Seeger's work is the perfect 56 00:02:39,719 --> 00:02:42,800 lens for this. It operates at this really weird intersection 57 00:02:42,879 --> 00:02:47,680 of extreme theoretical physics and very grounded, almost forensic chemistry. 58 00:02:47,840 --> 00:02:50,319 Speaker 1: Right, It's not just pointing a telescope and taking a picture. 59 00:02:50,000 --> 00:02:52,599 Speaker 2: Not at all. And the stakes of her research touch 60 00:02:52,719 --> 00:02:55,560 on the ultimate human questions of origin and. 61 00:02:55,560 --> 00:02:57,639 Speaker 1: Purpose, like why are we here? Right? 62 00:02:57,719 --> 00:03:01,240 Speaker 2: Exactly, if we discover that biology is not some fragile, 63 00:03:01,360 --> 00:03:05,639 localized fluke unique to Earth, but a robust phenomenon capable 64 00:03:05,639 --> 00:03:07,360 of emerging in sterile. 65 00:03:07,000 --> 00:03:09,919 Speaker 1: Environment environments we thought were completely dead, right, we have. 66 00:03:09,879 --> 00:03:12,960 Speaker 2: To rewrite our entire understanding of planetary science. 67 00:03:13,319 --> 00:03:18,280 Speaker 1: I was just so struck by how her entire career trajectory, 68 00:03:18,400 --> 00:03:22,000 like her origin story, stems from applying a really simple 69 00:03:22,039 --> 00:03:26,000 childhood observation to a massive cosmic data set. 70 00:03:26,080 --> 00:03:27,520 Speaker 2: Oh the camping trip story. 71 00:03:27,919 --> 00:03:31,000 Speaker 1: Yeah, she recounts being ten years old on a camping trip, 72 00:03:31,199 --> 00:03:32,800 waking up in the middle of the night and stepping 73 00:03:32,800 --> 00:03:33,120 out of. 74 00:03:33,039 --> 00:03:34,439 Speaker 2: Her tent just by accident. 75 00:03:34,520 --> 00:03:37,919 Speaker 1: Really right. She looks up at a truly dark, light 76 00:03:37,960 --> 00:03:42,319 pollution free sky, and she realizes, with that profound clarity 77 00:03:42,360 --> 00:03:43,800 you sometimes really only get. 78 00:03:43,680 --> 00:03:46,199 Speaker 2: As a kid, that every single one of those points 79 00:03:46,240 --> 00:03:47,199 of light is a sun. 80 00:03:47,599 --> 00:03:50,800 Speaker 1: Yes, and if our sun has a planetary system, the 81 00:03:50,800 --> 00:03:54,520 sheer statistical probability dictates that those other suns must have 82 00:03:54,560 --> 00:03:55,240 planets too. 83 00:03:55,639 --> 00:03:59,039 Speaker 2: It's a moment of deductive reasoning that permanently rewrites your 84 00:03:59,120 --> 00:04:00,719 brain's perception of scale. 85 00:04:00,759 --> 00:04:02,719 Speaker 1: It really is. It reminds me of I don't know 86 00:04:02,759 --> 00:04:04,319 if you ever had this feeling, but it's like looking 87 00:04:04,360 --> 00:04:06,520 out over a massive, sprawling city at night. 88 00:04:06,639 --> 00:04:08,680 Speaker 2: Oh yeah, seeing all the little lights in the windows. 89 00:04:08,719 --> 00:04:11,719 Speaker 1: Exactly. You look at those thousands of glowing windows and 90 00:04:11,759 --> 00:04:14,680 suddenly realize every single one of them contains completely unique 91 00:04:14,680 --> 00:04:17,519 families and dramas and stories inside. 92 00:04:17,600 --> 00:04:20,079 Speaker 2: That's a great analogy. It's the same logical leap that 93 00:04:20,160 --> 00:04:22,959 actually got Giordano Bruno burned at the stake in the 94 00:04:23,000 --> 00:04:26,519 sixteenth century. Wait really, Yeah, the idea that the sheer 95 00:04:26,639 --> 00:04:30,360 volume of stars implies a staggering multitude of worlds was 96 00:04:30,399 --> 00:04:32,000 considered absolute heresy. 97 00:04:32,160 --> 00:04:34,319 Speaker 1: Wow, that's intense. 98 00:04:34,519 --> 00:04:37,759 Speaker 2: But what is truly wild is how recently that intuitive 99 00:04:37,879 --> 00:04:40,920 leap was considered you know, academic career suicide. 100 00:04:40,959 --> 00:04:41,800 Speaker 1: I mean in the nineties. 101 00:04:41,920 --> 00:04:45,319 Speaker 2: Yeah, Seeger details her time in graduate school in the 102 00:04:45,360 --> 00:04:48,399 mid nineteen nineties. At that point, the entire field of 103 00:04:48,399 --> 00:04:50,720 exoplanet research was virtually non existent. 104 00:04:51,040 --> 00:04:52,240 Speaker 1: So hard to wrap my head around that. 105 00:04:52,399 --> 00:04:55,319 Speaker 2: I know. There were literally no confirmed planets outside our 106 00:04:55,319 --> 00:04:59,199 Solar system. The prevailing attitude and institutional astronomy was that 107 00:04:59,279 --> 00:05:02,680 dedicating te scope time to hunt for exoplanets was a 108 00:05:02,720 --> 00:05:06,680 total fool's errand it was just completely fringed science exactly. 109 00:05:06,759 --> 00:05:08,360 It was seen as silly, which. 110 00:05:08,120 --> 00:05:11,439 Speaker 1: Seems absurd in hindsight, right, considering we now have thousands 111 00:05:11,439 --> 00:05:16,040 of confirmed exoplanets. But the scientific community is notoriously risk averse. 112 00:05:16,279 --> 00:05:20,000 Speaker 2: While institutional science relies on a massive infrastructure of funding, 113 00:05:20,120 --> 00:05:22,319 pure review and academic tenure. 114 00:05:22,279 --> 00:05:24,839 Speaker 1: Right and proposing a project to de text something that 115 00:05:24,920 --> 00:05:27,639 no instrument has ever successfully detected. 116 00:05:27,800 --> 00:05:31,519 Speaker 2: It requires a level of professional risk that most researchers 117 00:05:31,759 --> 00:05:33,199 simply won't tolerate. 118 00:05:33,480 --> 00:05:36,680 Speaker 1: You are essentially asking funding boards to underwrite your gut feeling. 119 00:05:36,839 --> 00:05:39,199 Speaker 2: And that's exactly why she earned that nickname. 120 00:05:38,879 --> 00:05:40,800 Speaker 1: The Indiana Jones of astrophysics. 121 00:05:40,920 --> 00:05:43,399 Speaker 2: Yeah, a journalist gave her that name because she was 122 00:05:43,480 --> 00:05:46,240 willing to wander into that academic wilderness. 123 00:05:46,360 --> 00:05:50,079 Speaker 1: She risked her reputation on the belief that our instruments 124 00:05:50,079 --> 00:05:53,560 were finally catching up to our theories. But why do 125 00:05:53,639 --> 00:05:56,959 you think the scientific community pushes back so hard against 126 00:05:56,959 --> 00:05:57,879 these new frontiers. 127 00:05:58,560 --> 00:06:00,759 Speaker 2: I think, I mean, fear of failure is a huge 128 00:06:00,759 --> 00:06:04,279 part of it. But also the shift from fringe to 129 00:06:04,360 --> 00:06:07,879 mainstream science always requires a catalyst who refuses to accept 130 00:06:07,879 --> 00:06:09,199 the limitations of the current. 131 00:06:09,000 --> 00:06:11,240 Speaker 1: Paradigm, someone willing to look foolish. 132 00:06:11,360 --> 00:06:14,199 Speaker 2: Exactly in the nineties, the challenge was the signal to 133 00:06:14,240 --> 00:06:18,720 noise ratio. Stars are incredibly bright and massive planets are 134 00:06:18,720 --> 00:06:20,800 incredibly dim and tiny. 135 00:06:20,600 --> 00:06:21,759 Speaker 1: Like staring at a searchlight. 136 00:06:22,040 --> 00:06:24,800 Speaker 2: Yeah, trying to see a planet orbiting a distant star 137 00:06:25,000 --> 00:06:27,839 is often compared to trying to spot a firefly buzzing 138 00:06:27,920 --> 00:06:29,879 around a commercial lighthouse. 139 00:06:29,439 --> 00:06:30,600 Speaker 1: Some a thousand miles away. 140 00:06:30,759 --> 00:06:33,519 Speaker 2: Exactly. You cannot rely on direct imaging. You have to 141 00:06:33,560 --> 00:06:35,319 rely on indirect. 142 00:06:34,839 --> 00:06:37,319 Speaker 1: Methods like the radio velocity method right right. 143 00:06:37,160 --> 00:06:41,480 Speaker 2: Where you measure the minuscule gravitational wabble a planet induces 144 00:06:41,519 --> 00:06:45,560 on its host star, or, as became secret specialty, the 145 00:06:45,639 --> 00:06:46,519 transit method. 146 00:06:47,040 --> 00:06:49,240 Speaker 1: Let's actually break down the transit method for a second, 147 00:06:49,319 --> 00:06:52,839 because it really highlights just how much of this science 148 00:06:53,000 --> 00:06:56,120 is forensic deduction rather than direct observation. 149 00:06:56,319 --> 00:06:57,560 Speaker 2: It's totally forensic. 150 00:06:57,720 --> 00:07:00,279 Speaker 1: We aren't purning a giant magnifying glass at the sky 151 00:07:00,839 --> 00:07:03,480 and snapping a high resolution photo of a green and 152 00:07:03,519 --> 00:07:04,240 blue sphere. 153 00:07:04,399 --> 00:07:05,600 Speaker 2: No, not at all. 154 00:07:05,720 --> 00:07:08,240 Speaker 1: We are essentially staring at a star and waiting for 155 00:07:08,279 --> 00:07:08,920 it to blink. 156 00:07:09,079 --> 00:07:10,759 Speaker 2: That's a perfect way to describe it. 157 00:07:10,839 --> 00:07:13,759 Speaker 1: If a planet's orbit happens to align perfectly with our 158 00:07:13,879 --> 00:07:16,800 line of sight, the planet will cross in front of 159 00:07:16,839 --> 00:07:20,279 the star, blocking a microscopic fraction of the star's. 160 00:07:20,000 --> 00:07:23,199 Speaker 2: Light, and by measuring that tiny dip in brightness, astronomers 161 00:07:23,240 --> 00:07:26,040 can deduce the planet's size and its orbital period. 162 00:07:26,399 --> 00:07:30,480 Speaker 1: It's literally an exercise in interpreting shadows. 163 00:07:30,000 --> 00:07:32,839 Speaker 2: And that shadow play is where the real chemistry happens. 164 00:07:33,120 --> 00:07:34,439 This is where it gets amazing. 165 00:07:34,519 --> 00:07:35,839 Speaker 1: Oh, the spectroscopy stuff. 166 00:07:35,920 --> 00:07:39,720 Speaker 2: Yeah, when a planet transits a star, a tiny fraction 167 00:07:39,879 --> 00:07:43,600 the starlight passes through the planet's atmosphere before it reaches 168 00:07:43,600 --> 00:07:44,959 our telescope. 169 00:07:44,439 --> 00:07:46,519 Speaker 1: Right, So the light gets filtered exactly. 170 00:07:46,720 --> 00:07:52,360 Speaker 2: Different molecules in that atmosphere absorb different, highly specific wavelengths 171 00:07:52,360 --> 00:07:52,720 of light. 172 00:07:53,040 --> 00:07:57,319 Speaker 1: So when we spread that captured starlight out into a spectrum. 173 00:07:56,879 --> 00:08:00,759 Speaker 2: We see dark lines where specific colors are missing. Those 174 00:08:00,800 --> 00:08:03,519 missing lines are a chemical bar code. 175 00:08:03,600 --> 00:08:06,519 Speaker 1: So if we see the bar code for water vapor, 176 00:08:06,759 --> 00:08:10,519 or methane or carbon dioxide, we can reverse engineer the 177 00:08:10,519 --> 00:08:13,720 composition of an atmosphere sitting dozens of light years away. 178 00:08:13,879 --> 00:08:15,319 Speaker 2: It's incredibly precise. 179 00:08:15,439 --> 00:08:17,120 Speaker 1: It's like trying to figure out what someone is cooking 180 00:08:17,160 --> 00:08:19,040 for dinner by only being allowed to look at the 181 00:08:19,040 --> 00:08:21,360 shadows cast by the smoke coming out of their chimney. 182 00:08:21,439 --> 00:08:23,959 Speaker 2: That is Yeah, that's exactly what it is. It requires 183 00:08:23,959 --> 00:08:26,720 an unbelievable level of precision, and. 184 00:08:26,600 --> 00:08:29,279 Speaker 1: This is exactly what makes the pivot in Seeger's work 185 00:08:29,360 --> 00:08:34,440 so compelling. If we have developed this incredibly sophisticated forensic 186 00:08:34,480 --> 00:08:37,879 toolkit to analyze atmospheres light years. 187 00:08:37,639 --> 00:08:40,240 Speaker 2: Away, we obviously have to point those same tools at 188 00:08:40,279 --> 00:08:43,559 the atmospheres in our immediate cosmic neighborhood. 189 00:08:43,000 --> 00:08:46,600 Speaker 1: Which brings us to the most brutal, unforgiving environment in 190 00:08:46,639 --> 00:08:48,840 the Inner Solar System Venus. 191 00:08:49,240 --> 00:08:52,840 Speaker 2: Venus occupies such a strange space in our cultural and 192 00:08:52,879 --> 00:08:56,559 scientific imagination. Right we call it Earth's sister planet because 193 00:08:56,559 --> 00:09:00,159 the physical parameters are deceptively similar. It has roughly the 194 00:09:00,159 --> 00:09:02,840 same size, the same mass, the same gravity. 195 00:09:02,519 --> 00:09:05,480 Speaker 1: And for a long time, early science fiction writers imagined 196 00:09:05,480 --> 00:09:10,320 it as this lush, swampy paradise hidden beneath thick clouds. 197 00:09:10,440 --> 00:09:13,320 Speaker 2: Yeah, they thought it was basically prehistoric Earth. But the 198 00:09:13,360 --> 00:09:17,080 reality revealed by the Soviet venera landers and later orbiters 199 00:09:17,159 --> 00:09:19,240 is just a planetary catastrophe. 200 00:09:19,399 --> 00:09:22,559 Speaker 1: Catastrophe almost feels like an understatement. The surface of Venus 201 00:09:22,639 --> 00:09:24,559 is a literal hellscape, it really is. 202 00:09:24,679 --> 00:09:27,279 Speaker 2: It fell victim to a runaway greenhouse effect. 203 00:09:27,440 --> 00:09:30,159 Speaker 1: The atmosphere is what ninety six percent carbon. 204 00:09:29,919 --> 00:09:33,679 Speaker 2: Dioxide, yeah, which creates a thermal trap that drives surface 205 00:09:33,720 --> 00:09:36,320 temperatures up to nine hundred degrees. 206 00:09:36,000 --> 00:09:38,799 Speaker 1: Fahrenheit that is hot enough to melt lead. 207 00:09:38,720 --> 00:09:42,600 Speaker 2: Easily, and add to that an atmospheric pressure roughly ninety 208 00:09:42,639 --> 00:09:45,039 times heavier than Earth's at sea level, so. 209 00:09:45,000 --> 00:09:47,519 Speaker 1: It's equivalent to being a mile underwater in our oceans. 210 00:09:47,600 --> 00:09:49,799 Speaker 2: Exactly. If you stood on the surface, you would be 211 00:09:49,799 --> 00:09:53,159 simultaneously crushed, baked, and suffocated. 212 00:09:53,240 --> 00:09:55,879 Speaker 1: It is the absolute last place anyone in their right 213 00:09:55,919 --> 00:09:58,279 mind would look for biological. 214 00:09:57,639 --> 00:10:00,519 Speaker 2: Activity down on the surface. Absolutely, the chemistry of life 215 00:10:00,559 --> 00:10:04,679 as we understand it relies on complex carbon based. 216 00:10:04,440 --> 00:10:06,960 Speaker 1: Molecules, right, and at nine hundred. 217 00:10:06,720 --> 00:10:12,720 Speaker 2: Degrees, those complex organic bonds simply break apart, proteins dnature, DNA. 218 00:10:12,440 --> 00:10:15,559 Speaker 1: Unravels, and liquid water boils away entirely right. 219 00:10:15,600 --> 00:10:19,080 Speaker 2: But planetary environments are not monolithic. If we connect this 220 00:10:19,120 --> 00:10:21,879 to the bigger picture, As you move up through an atmosphere, 221 00:10:21,879 --> 00:10:23,159 the pressure drops and the. 222 00:10:23,120 --> 00:10:25,279 Speaker 1: Temperature cools, like climbing a mountain. 223 00:10:25,279 --> 00:10:28,200 Speaker 2: On Earth exactly, and on Venus, there is a very 224 00:10:28,240 --> 00:10:32,840 specific atmospheric band roughly fifty kilometers above the surface where 225 00:10:32,840 --> 00:10:34,399 the conditions shift dramatically. 226 00:10:34,600 --> 00:10:39,279 Speaker 1: This is the Goldilock's altitude. It's such a mind bending 227 00:10:39,399 --> 00:10:42,440 caveat to the hellscape below. It really is if you 228 00:10:42,480 --> 00:10:45,720 go fifty kilometers up into the Venugan sky, you hit 229 00:10:45,720 --> 00:10:48,360 a sweet spot where the atmosphere pressure drops to about 230 00:10:48,440 --> 00:10:51,799 one Earth atmosphere and the temperature cools down to a 231 00:10:51,879 --> 00:10:54,480 highly comfortable room temperature range. 232 00:10:54,600 --> 00:10:58,799 Speaker 2: You basically have a thin, invisible layer of paradise suspended 233 00:10:58,879 --> 00:11:00,440 over an inferno. 234 00:11:00,360 --> 00:11:03,320 Speaker 1: Which is wild to think about. The conditions are so 235 00:11:03,480 --> 00:11:06,480 temperate that over half a century ago, in nineteen sixty seven, 236 00:11:06,879 --> 00:11:09,399 Carl Sagan actually proposed life could exist there. 237 00:11:09,519 --> 00:11:12,840 Speaker 2: Yeah. Sagan and biophysicist Harold Morowitz co author to paper 238 00:11:12,879 --> 00:11:16,440 suggesting that microbial life could potentially exist in the clouds 239 00:11:16,440 --> 00:11:16,960 of Venus. 240 00:11:17,440 --> 00:11:19,720 Speaker 1: And this is a massive but we now know what 241 00:11:19,759 --> 00:11:21,000 those clouds are actually made of. 242 00:11:21,279 --> 00:11:24,720 Speaker 2: Right, Sagan and Morowitz understood the thermodynamics of the atmosphere, 243 00:11:24,720 --> 00:11:27,399 but the chemical reality of those clouds presents a massive 244 00:11:27,440 --> 00:11:28,919 biological hurdle because. 245 00:11:28,679 --> 00:11:30,440 Speaker 1: Those clouds are not made of water vapor like the 246 00:11:30,480 --> 00:11:31,159 clouds on Earth. 247 00:11:31,240 --> 00:11:34,039 Speaker 2: No, they are composed of highly concentrated sulfuric. 248 00:11:33,639 --> 00:11:36,720 Speaker 1: Acid, which is terrifying. We were talking about droplets that 249 00:11:36,759 --> 00:11:39,639 are seventy five percent to ninety percent pure acid. 250 00:11:39,960 --> 00:11:44,799 Speaker 2: On Earth. Sulfuric acid is an aggressive dehydrating industrial chemical. 251 00:11:45,240 --> 00:11:49,399 It literally strips water molecules right out of organic compounds. 252 00:11:49,519 --> 00:11:52,840 Speaker 1: The text makes it so visceral. It warns that this 253 00:11:52,960 --> 00:11:55,799 acid would instantly burn a hole through your clothes and your. 254 00:11:55,639 --> 00:11:58,559 Speaker 2: Skin, oh easily. If you draw a biological tissue into it, 255 00:11:58,559 --> 00:12:01,720 it doesn't just dissolve, it, chars it, reducing it to 256 00:12:01,759 --> 00:12:02,480 black carbon. 257 00:12:02,600 --> 00:12:07,080 Speaker 1: It kills all known earthlife. Therefore, looking for bacteria there 258 00:12:07,240 --> 00:12:08,879 sounds completely ridiculous. 259 00:12:08,960 --> 00:12:11,480 Speaker 2: It stretches the boundaries of plausible biochemistry. 260 00:12:11,519 --> 00:12:13,799 Speaker 1: Okay, here's where it gets really interesting, because in the 261 00:12:13,799 --> 00:12:16,879 fall of twenty twenty, there was this massive announcement. 262 00:12:16,440 --> 00:12:17,879 Speaker 2: Oh, the phosphene detection. 263 00:12:18,159 --> 00:12:22,159 Speaker 1: Yes, Seger and a large international team of researchers made 264 00:12:22,200 --> 00:12:25,120 an announcement that sent shockwaves through the scientific world. 265 00:12:25,200 --> 00:12:28,559 Speaker 2: They use the James Clerk Maxwell telescope in Hawaii and 266 00:12:28,600 --> 00:12:31,039 the Alma radio telescope array in Chile. 267 00:12:31,240 --> 00:12:34,279 Speaker 1: And what do they find. They detected the distinct spectral 268 00:12:34,279 --> 00:12:38,120 barcode of a gas called phosphene in the Venusian cloud deck. 269 00:12:38,519 --> 00:12:40,799 Speaker 2: To understand the gravity of this, we really need to 270 00:12:40,799 --> 00:12:43,720 dig into the chemistry of phosphene and why its presence 271 00:12:43,759 --> 00:12:45,000 is so incredibly jarring. 272 00:12:45,240 --> 00:12:46,679 Speaker 1: What exactly is phosphine. 273 00:12:46,759 --> 00:12:50,159 Speaker 2: So phosphene or pH three is a very simple molecule, 274 00:12:51,240 --> 00:12:55,200 one phosphorus atom bonded to three hydrogen atoms. 275 00:12:55,360 --> 00:12:56,919 Speaker 1: Okay, sounds simple enough. 276 00:12:56,759 --> 00:13:00,639 Speaker 2: But the simplicity of its structure belies the immense difficulty 277 00:13:00,720 --> 00:13:02,840 of creating it in a natural environment. 278 00:13:02,960 --> 00:13:04,039 Speaker 1: Why is it so hard to. 279 00:13:04,000 --> 00:13:09,440 Speaker 2: Make because phosphorus strongly prefers to bond with oxygen. In 280 00:13:09,480 --> 00:13:12,480 a highly oxidized environment like Venus, which is choked with 281 00:13:12,519 --> 00:13:16,879 carbon dioxide, phosphorus will naturally form phosphates. 282 00:13:16,279 --> 00:13:18,840 Speaker 1: So it wants to be with oxygen non hydrogen. 283 00:13:19,039 --> 00:13:21,960 Speaker 2: Exactly. It takes a massive input of energy to force 284 00:13:22,000 --> 00:13:25,360 phosphorus to reject oxygen and bond with hydrogen instead. 285 00:13:25,480 --> 00:13:29,080 Speaker 1: It's thermodynamically unfavorable. The molecules just don't want to snap 286 00:13:29,120 --> 00:13:30,799 together that way without some kind of force. 287 00:13:31,080 --> 00:13:34,159 Speaker 2: Right on Earth, we only see phosphine produced in two. 288 00:13:33,960 --> 00:13:36,039 Speaker 1: Ways, and one of them is in labs right. 289 00:13:35,919 --> 00:13:39,639 Speaker 2: Yeah, and highly controlled, energy intensive industrial laboratories where we 290 00:13:39,679 --> 00:13:43,320 manufacture it for things like semiconductor doping or agricultural fumigation. 291 00:13:43,480 --> 00:13:44,360 Speaker 1: And the second way, the. 292 00:13:44,360 --> 00:13:49,080 Speaker 2: Second way is biological. We find phosphene in swamps, in marshlands, 293 00:13:49,159 --> 00:13:50,679 in the sludge of sewage. 294 00:13:50,279 --> 00:13:53,200 Speaker 1: Plants, dead fish basically yeah. 295 00:13:52,759 --> 00:13:55,399 Speaker 2: And in the guts of animals like penguins and badgers. 296 00:13:56,000 --> 00:13:59,960 It is the exhaust fume of anaerobic bacteria. 297 00:14:00,159 --> 00:14:01,919 Speaker 1: That live in oxygen free environments. 298 00:14:02,080 --> 00:14:07,240 Speaker 2: Exactly these organisms have evolved complex ensmatic machinery to force 299 00:14:07,279 --> 00:14:12,080 those hydrogen phosphorus bonds together. It is an undeniable intimate 300 00:14:12,159 --> 00:14:14,840 signature of biological activity on Earth. 301 00:14:14,679 --> 00:14:17,200 Speaker 1: And that is the crux of the twenty twenty bombshell. 302 00:14:18,000 --> 00:14:22,240 If phosphene requires either a human laboratory or anaerobic biology 303 00:14:22,279 --> 00:14:25,039 to exist, what on Earth is it doing floating in 304 00:14:25,080 --> 00:14:26,039 the clouds of Venus. 305 00:14:26,279 --> 00:14:28,519 Speaker 2: And to their credit, the researchers didn't just publish their 306 00:14:28,519 --> 00:14:30,759 detection and irresponsibly scream aliens. 307 00:14:31,039 --> 00:14:33,679 Speaker 1: No, they brought receipts. They published over one hundred pages 308 00:14:33,679 --> 00:14:36,759 of exhaustive, rigorous photochemical and geochemical modeling. 309 00:14:36,919 --> 00:14:40,279 Speaker 2: They mapped out every conceivable abiotic, meaning and non biological 310 00:14:40,320 --> 00:14:41,440 process they could think of. 311 00:14:41,639 --> 00:14:45,559 Speaker 1: Right. They modeled massive volcanic eruptions, violent atmospheric lightning storms, 312 00:14:45,600 --> 00:14:48,159 the impact of micrometeorites raining down from space. 313 00:14:48,240 --> 00:14:51,039 Speaker 2: They even calculated the energy output of lightning strikes on 314 00:14:51,120 --> 00:14:53,200 Venus to see if it could crack the molecules and 315 00:14:53,240 --> 00:14:57,320 force the phosphine bonds. It fell short by orders of magnitude. 316 00:14:57,480 --> 00:14:58,879 Speaker 1: So I have a question here, and I'm sure you 317 00:14:58,919 --> 00:15:01,159 listening might be wondering this too. Okay, they did the math, 318 00:15:01,720 --> 00:15:04,120 but if the clowns are made of flesh melting acid, 319 00:15:04,720 --> 00:15:07,679 isn't it mathematically more likely that there's just some geological 320 00:15:07,759 --> 00:15:11,320 volcano magic we don't understand yet, rather than actual life 321 00:15:11,320 --> 00:15:12,480 swimming in battery acid. 322 00:15:12,799 --> 00:15:15,720 Speaker 2: That is the exact pushback the scientific community gave, and 323 00:15:15,759 --> 00:15:17,639 it's a completely valid point. 324 00:15:17,399 --> 00:15:20,799 Speaker 1: Right because water is the fundamental solvent for all known life. 325 00:15:20,960 --> 00:15:26,000 Speaker 2: Exactly it facilitates the complex folding of proteins and lipid membranes. 326 00:15:26,639 --> 00:15:29,679 Sulfuric acid destroys all of those structures. 327 00:15:29,840 --> 00:15:30,879 Speaker 1: This just seems impossible. 328 00:15:31,320 --> 00:15:35,240 Speaker 2: Therefore, many grchemists argue exactly what you just said. It 329 00:15:35,320 --> 00:15:38,840 is logically more probable that there is a deep, exotic 330 00:15:39,000 --> 00:15:42,320 geological process happening on Venus that we simply do not 331 00:15:42,559 --> 00:15:43,480 understand yet. 332 00:15:43,919 --> 00:15:46,519 Speaker 1: Unknown volcano magic feels like the safer. 333 00:15:46,159 --> 00:15:50,519 Speaker 2: Bet it does. But Seeger acknowledges this. She doesn't defensively 334 00:15:50,559 --> 00:15:53,159 claim that her team definitively found life. 335 00:15:53,399 --> 00:15:54,559 Speaker 1: So what does she argue? 336 00:15:54,759 --> 00:15:58,039 Speaker 2: She argues that the very detection of the anomaly forces 337 00:15:58,080 --> 00:16:01,679 a necessary expansion of our science imagination. It demands that 338 00:16:01,720 --> 00:16:03,159 we consider new archetypes. 339 00:16:03,440 --> 00:16:07,039 Speaker 1: We have to ask the uncomfortable question, are we artificially 340 00:16:07,080 --> 00:16:10,519 limiting our search for life by insisting it must use 341 00:16:10,559 --> 00:16:15,600 the exact same biochemical operating system as life on Earth exactly? 342 00:16:15,919 --> 00:16:19,000 Speaker 2: Think of it like a computer analogy. For decades, our 343 00:16:19,080 --> 00:16:23,279 search for extraterrestrial life has essentially been running a diagnostic 344 00:16:23,360 --> 00:16:25,600 tool that only knows how to look for the Windows 345 00:16:25,600 --> 00:16:26,440 operating system. 346 00:16:26,639 --> 00:16:29,759 Speaker 1: You look for water, oxygen, and standard carbon chains. 347 00:16:29,879 --> 00:16:33,120 Speaker 2: Right. But what if life in the universe also runs 348 00:16:33,120 --> 00:16:33,639 on Linux. 349 00:16:33,720 --> 00:16:34,879 Speaker 1: Oh, that's a great way to put it. 350 00:16:35,159 --> 00:16:38,799 Speaker 2: What if, over millions of years, an organism on Venus 351 00:16:38,919 --> 00:16:41,679 evolve a completely different biochemical architecture. 352 00:16:41,679 --> 00:16:44,559 Speaker 1: Perhaps they utilize a different solvent, or have evolved an 353 00:16:44,600 --> 00:16:47,799 acid resistant lipid membrane we haven't even synthesized yet. 354 00:16:47,879 --> 00:16:51,000 Speaker 2: If biology can find a way to adapt to sulfuric acid, 355 00:16:51,320 --> 00:16:54,440 the parameters of the habitable zone are blown wide open. 356 00:16:54,600 --> 00:16:57,799 Speaker 1: The universe goes from being a sparsely populated desert to 357 00:16:57,840 --> 00:17:02,480 an incredibly fertile, diverse, biochemic co laboratory exactly. That concept 358 00:17:02,480 --> 00:17:06,359 completely shatters the mold. It means every toxic extreme environment 359 00:17:06,400 --> 00:17:09,119 we previously wrote off as a sterile dead zone suddenly 360 00:17:09,200 --> 00:17:10,039 needs a second look. 361 00:17:10,319 --> 00:17:12,279 Speaker 2: It totally redefines everything. 362 00:17:12,440 --> 00:17:16,480 Speaker 1: But this intense, laser focused search for life, whether it's 363 00:17:16,559 --> 00:17:20,279 weird acid bactery on on venus or tempered Earth twins 364 00:17:20,720 --> 00:17:24,480 dozens of light years away, brings up a massive philosophical question. 365 00:17:24,599 --> 00:17:26,079 Speaker 2: So why are we doing this question? 366 00:17:26,240 --> 00:17:29,039 Speaker 1: Yeah? Why are we pouring billions of dollars in our 367 00:17:29,079 --> 00:17:31,480 best scientific minds into this pursuit. 368 00:17:31,880 --> 00:17:34,160 Speaker 2: Seger points out in the Big Think video that the 369 00:17:34,200 --> 00:17:40,039 public often severely misunderstands the fundamental motivation behind exoplanet research. 370 00:17:40,160 --> 00:17:43,279 Speaker 1: Right, the prevailing narrative is always about finding a backup plan. 371 00:17:44,039 --> 00:17:46,240 The concept of planet B Yes. 372 00:17:46,599 --> 00:17:50,200 Speaker 2: The assumption is that astronomers are scouting the cosmos. 373 00:17:49,640 --> 00:17:52,079 Speaker 1: For a real estate hunt because there is a deep 374 00:17:52,160 --> 00:17:55,960 seated anxiety about the ecological degradation of Earth, the threat 375 00:17:56,000 --> 00:17:57,559 of nuclear conflict. 376 00:17:57,119 --> 00:18:00,839 Speaker 2: Asteroid impacts, climate change, all of it to this idea 377 00:18:00,880 --> 00:18:04,400 that humanity needs to become an interplanetary species to ensure 378 00:18:04,440 --> 00:18:05,200 our survival. 379 00:18:05,279 --> 00:18:07,839 Speaker 1: But Seger violently bursts that bubble in the video. 380 00:18:07,720 --> 00:18:10,799 Speaker 2: She really does. She states clearly that finding a planet. 381 00:18:10,480 --> 00:18:12,640 Speaker 1: B is a myth, it is not the goal of 382 00:18:12,640 --> 00:18:16,000 the scientific community, and the reality check she provides in 383 00:18:16,039 --> 00:18:18,119 the source material is honestly sobering. 384 00:18:18,599 --> 00:18:21,519 Speaker 2: It is because to find a true Earth twin, a 385 00:18:21,680 --> 00:18:26,519 planet with stable continents, liquid oceans, a compatible day night cycle, 386 00:18:26,880 --> 00:18:30,880 and a thin, breathable, oxygenated atmosphere. 387 00:18:30,240 --> 00:18:34,279 Speaker 1: It's an incredibly tall order. We have cataloged thousands of planets, 388 00:18:34,400 --> 00:18:37,319 and we have not found a single one that matches 389 00:18:37,359 --> 00:18:39,720 our specific biological requirements. 390 00:18:40,039 --> 00:18:43,000 Speaker 2: Not one. Even if we locate a rocky planet in 391 00:18:43,039 --> 00:18:45,960 a star's habitable zone, the odds of it possessing the 392 00:18:46,039 --> 00:18:49,759 exact delicate atmospheric balance we need to survive without pressurized 393 00:18:49,759 --> 00:18:52,160 habitats are infinitesimally small. 394 00:18:52,400 --> 00:18:56,799 Speaker 1: And even if we discard this statistical improbability, let's pretend 395 00:18:56,799 --> 00:19:00,480 that we discover a one hundred percent perfect, pristine two 396 00:19:00,519 --> 00:19:01,640 point zero tomorrow, we. 397 00:19:01,680 --> 00:19:04,319 Speaker 2: Instantly collide with the immovable laws of physics. 398 00:19:04,440 --> 00:19:07,480 Speaker 1: The sheer scale of interstellar space imposes a tyranny of 399 00:19:07,480 --> 00:19:10,400 distance that our current technology cannot even begin to bridge. 400 00:19:10,519 --> 00:19:14,519 Speaker 2: The closest known exoplanet, Proximus andry B, is over four 401 00:19:14,640 --> 00:19:15,759 light years away. 402 00:19:15,640 --> 00:19:17,400 Speaker 1: Which doesn't sound like much until you do the math. 403 00:19:17,640 --> 00:19:20,839 Speaker 2: Right, with our current propulsion technology, it would take a 404 00:19:20,880 --> 00:19:23,759 spacecraft roughly seventy thousand years to get there. 405 00:19:24,240 --> 00:19:25,319 Speaker 1: Seventy thousand years. 406 00:19:25,480 --> 00:19:25,720 Speaker 2: Yeah. 407 00:19:26,319 --> 00:19:29,039 Speaker 1: The video touches on the classic sci fi solutions to 408 00:19:29,079 --> 00:19:32,480 this problem, like deep space hibernation, or the. 409 00:19:32,440 --> 00:19:36,440 Speaker 2: Concept of beaming the digital sequence of human DNA via 410 00:19:36,599 --> 00:19:40,839 lasers to a distant solar system where it could be artificially. 411 00:19:40,400 --> 00:19:42,759 Speaker 1: Just stated, which is fun to think about. It's great 412 00:19:42,799 --> 00:19:45,799 sci Fi. But Seeger grounds the conversation immediately. 413 00:19:46,160 --> 00:19:48,559 Speaker 2: She says, these are fascinating thought experiments, but they are 414 00:19:48,599 --> 00:19:51,440 totally unfeasible as actual survival strategies. 415 00:19:51,480 --> 00:19:53,720 Speaker 1: It's like hoping a teleporter is invented before you have 416 00:19:53,759 --> 00:19:55,079 to pay your next month's rent. 417 00:19:55,279 --> 00:19:57,279 Speaker 2: That's hilarious, but it's true. 418 00:19:57,440 --> 00:19:59,839 Speaker 1: You cannot hold your breath and wait for a warp drive. 419 00:20:00,440 --> 00:20:03,440 Hoping for a technological miracle to evacuate a dying planet 420 00:20:03,519 --> 00:20:05,240 is like refusing to fix a hole in your life 421 00:20:05,319 --> 00:20:07,920 raft because you're convinced a luxury yacht is going to 422 00:20:07,920 --> 00:20:09,039 sail by any minute. 423 00:20:09,119 --> 00:20:12,039 Speaker 2: It is a total abdication of responsibility. This raises an 424 00:20:12,039 --> 00:20:15,880 important question. If we are not looking for an escape patch, 425 00:20:16,440 --> 00:20:19,240 what are we looking for? Seeker argues that the search 426 00:20:19,279 --> 00:20:24,240 for exoplanets is the modern, rigorous continuation of humanity's oldest 427 00:20:24,279 --> 00:20:25,759 philosophical quest. 428 00:20:25,599 --> 00:20:28,119 Speaker 1: Where do we come from? And why are we here? 429 00:20:28,319 --> 00:20:33,039 Speaker 2: Yes, by mapping the diversity of planetary systems, by analyzing 430 00:20:33,079 --> 00:20:36,200 the toxic clouds of Venus and the frozen atmospheres of 431 00:20:36,279 --> 00:20:39,559 gas giants, we are looking for cosmic context, and. 432 00:20:39,519 --> 00:20:42,480 Speaker 1: The ultimate lesson that emerges from this immense data set 433 00:20:42,880 --> 00:20:45,960 is a crushing realization of Earth's unique fragility. 434 00:20:46,160 --> 00:20:47,960 Speaker 2: It really makes you appreciate what we have. 435 00:20:48,359 --> 00:20:52,000 Speaker 1: When you spend your entire career looking at radiation blasted rocks, 436 00:20:52,319 --> 00:20:56,599 crushing gas giants, and acidic hellscapes, you begin to understand 437 00:20:56,640 --> 00:20:59,880 the sheer mathematical improbability of our own planet. 438 00:21:00,240 --> 00:21:03,839 Speaker 2: All the pieces evolve together perfectly. We have a magnetosphere 439 00:21:03,880 --> 00:21:05,200 that deflects solar wind. 440 00:21:05,160 --> 00:21:07,680 Speaker 1: A water cycle that regulates temperature. 441 00:21:07,200 --> 00:21:10,200 Speaker 2: And a biosphere that has spent billions of years terraforming 442 00:21:10,240 --> 00:21:12,519 the atmosphere into the perfect breatheable mix. 443 00:21:13,000 --> 00:21:17,559 Speaker 1: It is an unimaginably complex interlocking system, and Seger's conclusion 444 00:21:17,640 --> 00:21:19,559 is that the universe is telling us loud and clear 445 00:21:20,079 --> 00:21:22,839 that we are absolutely stranded on this rock. We really are, 446 00:21:23,079 --> 00:21:27,640 and therefore the only logical scientific path forward is to 447 00:21:27,720 --> 00:21:31,039 dedicate our resources to preserving the biosphere we have. 448 00:21:31,400 --> 00:21:34,799 Speaker 2: That realization does carry a tremendous existential weight. 449 00:21:34,920 --> 00:21:36,680 Speaker 1: It removes the safety net entirely. 450 00:21:36,880 --> 00:21:39,839 Speaker 2: But what makes Seger's perspective so compelling is how she 451 00:21:39,960 --> 00:21:43,880 navigates that weight. She doesn't succumb to cosmic nihilism. 452 00:21:44,160 --> 00:21:47,559 Speaker 1: No, she offers a beautiful framework for finding meaning in 453 00:21:47,640 --> 00:21:51,039 both the macrocosm of the universe and the microcosm of 454 00:21:51,119 --> 00:21:52,559 human experience. 455 00:21:52,200 --> 00:21:55,599 Speaker 2: Which is beautifully articulated in the title of her memoir, Yes. 456 00:21:55,720 --> 00:21:58,400 Speaker 1: The Smallest Lights in the Universe, which the Big Think 457 00:21:58,480 --> 00:21:59,680 video references heavily. 458 00:22:00,000 --> 00:22:02,200 Speaker 2: The title operates on a brilliant dual level. 459 00:22:02,400 --> 00:22:03,960 Speaker 1: Let's talk about the literal meaning first. 460 00:22:04,079 --> 00:22:07,759 Speaker 2: Okay, So on the astronomical side, the Smallest Lights refer 461 00:22:07,839 --> 00:22:12,119 to the agonizing physical reality of detecting exoplanets. 462 00:22:11,319 --> 00:22:13,799 Speaker 1: Because the host star is blindingly bright. 463 00:22:13,759 --> 00:22:16,359 Speaker 2: Right, and the planet is just a microscopic speck of 464 00:22:16,400 --> 00:22:18,039 reflected light. Caught in the glare. 465 00:22:18,319 --> 00:22:22,039 Speaker 1: Astronomers have to design incredibly complex instruments to deal with this. 466 00:22:22,519 --> 00:22:26,359 Speaker 2: Yeah, like coronagraphs that artificially eclipse the star inside the telescope, 467 00:22:26,599 --> 00:22:31,039 or massive flower shaped star shades deployed in space just. 468 00:22:30,960 --> 00:22:33,279 Speaker 1: To black out the overwhelming light of the star so 469 00:22:33,319 --> 00:22:36,440 they can capture the faint, fragile signal of the planet. 470 00:22:36,519 --> 00:22:39,279 Speaker 2: It is a grueling exercise and filtering out the noise 471 00:22:39,400 --> 00:22:41,039 to find the quiet signal. 472 00:22:40,839 --> 00:22:44,160 Speaker 1: And bringing the emotional core of this to you, the listener. 473 00:22:45,119 --> 00:22:49,319 The internal meaning of that title is just devastatingly accurate. 474 00:22:49,440 --> 00:22:51,640 Speaker 2: The psychology of it is so profound. 475 00:22:52,079 --> 00:22:55,400 Speaker 1: The text explicitly states that when times are tough, whether 476 00:22:55,440 --> 00:22:59,039 facing global issues or deep personal tragedy in her own life, 477 00:22:59,160 --> 00:23:00,440 we have to look in where right. 478 00:23:00,920 --> 00:23:04,599 Speaker 2: When you are immersed in grief or confronted by overwhelming darkness, 479 00:23:04,799 --> 00:23:07,799 the mechanics of emotional survival are remarkably similar to the 480 00:23:07,799 --> 00:23:09,039 mechanics of astrophysics. 481 00:23:09,079 --> 00:23:11,519 Speaker 1: You cannot focus on the blinding glare of the tragedy. 482 00:23:11,680 --> 00:23:14,680 Speaker 2: No, you have to actively intentionally engineer a way to 483 00:23:14,759 --> 00:23:17,880 block out the overwhelming noise and search for the smallest 484 00:23:17,960 --> 00:23:19,599 lights in your internal universe. 485 00:23:19,839 --> 00:23:23,240 Speaker 1: You look for the faint, delicate signals, a moment of connection, 486 00:23:23,440 --> 00:23:26,759 a cherished memory, a small daily task, and you anchor 487 00:23:26,799 --> 00:23:27,480 yourself to them. 488 00:23:27,799 --> 00:23:30,240 Speaker 2: You grab on to those cherish things and hold tight. 489 00:23:30,559 --> 00:23:32,960 You have to scan your own darkness for a signal. 490 00:23:33,160 --> 00:23:35,720 Speaker 1: The sheer tenacity required to look for life in a 491 00:23:35,720 --> 00:23:39,240 toxic cloud on venus is the exact same tenacity required 492 00:23:39,279 --> 00:23:42,279 to find hope in the middle of a personal catastrophe. 493 00:23:42,359 --> 00:23:45,000 Speaker 2: It is a profound synthesis of the scientific and the 494 00:23:45,079 --> 00:23:48,599 human experience. We are a species that looks outward to 495 00:23:48,680 --> 00:23:50,119 understand what is inside. 496 00:23:50,400 --> 00:23:52,720 Speaker 1: So what does this all mean. Let's draw this thread 497 00:23:52,839 --> 00:23:53,559 all the way through. 498 00:23:53,720 --> 00:23:55,559 Speaker 2: Okay, let's summarize the journey. 499 00:23:55,720 --> 00:23:58,720 Speaker 1: We started with a ten year old girl staring up 500 00:23:58,880 --> 00:24:02,079 at a dark sky, making a deductive leap about the 501 00:24:02,079 --> 00:24:03,160 scale of the neighborhood. 502 00:24:03,440 --> 00:24:07,440 Speaker 2: We followed that spark into the meticulous forensic chemistry of 503 00:24:07,599 --> 00:24:12,200 analyzing alien atmospheres. Pushing past the institutional resistance of the 504 00:24:12,279 --> 00:24:13,119 nineteen nineties. 505 00:24:13,359 --> 00:24:16,519 Speaker 1: We dove into the caustic, high pressure hellscape of Venus, 506 00:24:16,799 --> 00:24:20,440 hunting for the bizarre biological signature of phosphene and clouds 507 00:24:20,480 --> 00:24:22,000 of concentrated battery acid. 508 00:24:22,079 --> 00:24:25,319 Speaker 2: We dismantled the dangerous myth of planet B confronting the 509 00:24:25,400 --> 00:24:27,880 hard physical limits of interstellar. 510 00:24:27,319 --> 00:24:31,039 Speaker 1: Travel, and ultimately we arrived at the realization that the 511 00:24:31,240 --> 00:24:33,880 billions of dollars and millions of hours spent searching the 512 00:24:33,920 --> 00:24:36,799 cosmos are really just an elaborate mirror. 513 00:24:36,920 --> 00:24:40,079 Speaker 2: It's a mirror showing us the terrifying fragility of Earth, 514 00:24:40,400 --> 00:24:42,839 and a mirror teaching us how to navigate the darkness 515 00:24:42,880 --> 00:24:43,720 of our own lives. 516 00:24:44,079 --> 00:24:47,920 Speaker 1: The universe is vast, hostile and endlessly surprising. 517 00:24:48,119 --> 00:24:51,519 Speaker 2: But if the chemistry of Venus teaches us anything, it 518 00:24:51,599 --> 00:24:54,960 is that complex systems, whether they are biological microbes or 519 00:24:55,039 --> 00:24:59,000 human societies, have an astonishing capacity to adapt and persist 520 00:24:59,039 --> 00:25:00,799 in the face of over whelming pressure. 521 00:25:01,079 --> 00:25:03,680 Speaker 1: Right if life can theoretically figure out how to weave 522 00:25:03,720 --> 00:25:07,039 its existence into the sulfuric acid clouds of our sister. 523 00:25:06,759 --> 00:25:09,359 Speaker 2: Planet, we certainly possess the capacity to adapt to each 524 00:25:09,400 --> 00:25:11,000 other and fix the only home we have. 525 00:25:11,400 --> 00:25:13,599 Speaker 1: That is the perfect thought to leave hanging in the air. 526 00:25:14,119 --> 00:25:15,759 We want to hear from you on this. We really 527 00:25:15,799 --> 00:25:22,359 do imagine that. Tomorrow Seeger's team publishes irrefutable, undeniable proof 528 00:25:22,680 --> 00:25:26,359 that an entirely separate genesis of acid resistant microbial lice 529 00:25:26,720 --> 00:25:29,200 is thriving in the clouds of Venus right now. 530 00:25:28,920 --> 00:25:30,160 Speaker 2: Just definitively proven. 531 00:25:30,319 --> 00:25:33,079 Speaker 1: How does that discovery change the way you view your 532 00:25:33,079 --> 00:25:34,440 own existence here on Earth? 533 00:25:34,640 --> 00:25:38,480 Speaker 2: Does knowing that the universe is teeming with bizarre, resilient 534 00:25:38,519 --> 00:25:42,640 biology make you feel smaller and more insignificant, or. 535 00:25:42,599 --> 00:25:45,759 Speaker 1: Does it make you feel more deeply integrated into the 536 00:25:45,839 --> 00:25:47,920 grand weird machinery of the cosmos. 537 00:25:48,079 --> 00:25:48,960 Speaker 2: It's a heavy question. 538 00:25:49,160 --> 00:25:50,960 Speaker 1: Drop down into the comments right now and let us 539 00:25:51,000 --> 00:25:53,440 know your stance. Thank you so much for joining us 540 00:25:53,440 --> 00:25:57,240 on this exploration. Until next time, keep pulling on those threads.