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<v Speaker 1>It's Mark Thompson here.

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<v Speaker 2>I'm so excited to have a best selling author in

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<v Speaker 2>the midst here with a book that takes place in

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<v Speaker 2>Los Angeles. It's set against the backdrop of Los Angeles.

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<v Speaker 2>The Library Journal already saying that her nuanced and sympathetic

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<v Speaker 2>characters and stellar writing are nearly as brilliant as in

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<v Speaker 2>The Great Gatsby. Wow it is. It's pretty amazing that

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<v Speaker 2>you got this from Bloomberg. Bloomberg chooses your book as

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<v Speaker 2>one of the ten best books of the summer. How

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<v Speaker 2>about it for Kira Davis, Lori and the Great Man,

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<v Speaker 2>which is your new book, Bravo. Wow Man is spelled

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<v Speaker 2>Mann and it's being released.

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<v Speaker 1>I think is it next week that it's released.

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<v Speaker 3>Tent right around the corner.

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<v Speaker 2>So tell me about where it's set, because it's set

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<v Speaker 2>in a part of LA that is sort of very

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<v Speaker 2>different now than it was.

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<v Speaker 3>Yeah, the area is called West Adam Heights and right

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<v Speaker 3>now there's the Ten Freeways right through it. But that

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<v Speaker 3>did not that wasn't always the case. So West Adam

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<v Speaker 3>Heights was Los Angeles' Beverly Hills before we had Beverly Hills.

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<v Speaker 3>So all the La aristocracy lived there, and then the

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<v Speaker 3>stock market crashed and as the thirties wore on, people

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<v Speaker 3>discovered it was actually really expensive to keep up your mansion, right,

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<v Speaker 3>so they had to sell. But the only people who

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<v Speaker 3>were able to buy at that time were the newly

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<v Speaker 3>wealthy African Americans. So you had African American oil tycoons, hoteliers,

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<v Speaker 3>business moguls, and then the Hollywood movie stars and they

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<v Speaker 3>started buying up these mansions. And Hattie McDaniel was one

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<v Speaker 3>of the people who lived there, and she would throw

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<v Speaker 3>these gala parties where her guest list would include Bing Crosby,

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<v Speaker 3>Clark Gable, Lena Horne, Duke Ellington was her entertainment and right,

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<v Speaker 3>I mean, so it was extraordinarily Gatsby esque, which is

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<v Speaker 3>why I took the framework of the Gatsby and said

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<v Speaker 3>it in this real world that was right here in

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<v Speaker 3>Los Angeles.

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<v Speaker 2>Apparently it's amazingly successful, this narrative. So this veteran who

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<v Speaker 2>is your main character, arrives back in nineteen forty five

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<v Speaker 2>Los Angeles to this area and figuring there'd be a

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<v Speaker 2>fresh start, this affluent neighborhood that you describe, and then

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<v Speaker 2>take us through a little bit of what he encounters, right.

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<v Speaker 3>So Charlie Trammel, he is, he was in World War

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<v Speaker 3>Two and he's just come back to his home. And

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<v Speaker 3>he came back home to his home in Virginia, in

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<v Speaker 3>rural Virginia where his family was sharecroppers. But as what

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<v Speaker 3>just was the case, as with the case in the

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<v Speaker 3>end of World War One, black veterans were not treated well,

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<v Speaker 3>particularly in the South. There was a lot of violence

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<v Speaker 3>and abuse. And he decides that's the stock going to work.

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<v Speaker 3>And he has a cousin who he hasn't seen forever,

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<v Speaker 3>who's in Los Angeles. He's like, yeah, come on out here,

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<v Speaker 3>lots of opportunity. This is good. He goes out and

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<v Speaker 3>discovers it's not just that she's doing okay, she's living

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<v Speaker 3>the life. Okay, you know, she's coming out. She's got

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<v Speaker 3>diamonds in her ears, she's driving like a nice car.

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<v Speaker 3>You know, she's got clothes that look like they were

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<v Speaker 3>designed just for her. And you know, when he knew her,

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<v Speaker 3>I mean she left young, but like she's his cousin.

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<v Speaker 3>This was this was a sharecropping family, so he doesn't

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<v Speaker 3>really know the full trajectory. And she married this guy

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<v Speaker 3>who's living up in West Adam Heights, which had been

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<v Speaker 3>nicknamed at that point LA's Sugar Hill. So he gets

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<v Speaker 3>brought into this world from the sharecropping world and as

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<v Speaker 3>well as the the drama and trauma of World War Two,

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<v Speaker 3>into this world of black luxury that he didn't know existed.

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<v Speaker 3>And he's seeing, you know again, movie stars. And one

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<v Speaker 3>of the things really interesting for him with the black

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<v Speaker 3>movie stars is, like a lot of African Americans of

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<v Speaker 3>that period, there was a lot of mixed feelings about

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<v Speaker 3>their black movie stars because they were taking these roles

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<v Speaker 3>that were really stereotypic, typical, and frequently demeaning.

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<v Speaker 1>Sure, the.

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<v Speaker 2>Servant the exact yeah, of course, right, you know.

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<v Speaker 3>They were the they were there to be subservient and

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<v Speaker 3>the butther of the joke, you know. And then he

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<v Speaker 3>meets these people and they're the they're so the dichotomy

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<v Speaker 3>between them and the character they play is gigantic, right,

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<v Speaker 3>I mean, as he meets Louise Beaver's who was a

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<v Speaker 3>huge star at the time, less known now by the time,

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<v Speaker 3>she was as big as Hattie McDaniel, and she played

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<v Speaker 3>roles that, you know, these plaintive roles of you know,

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<v Speaker 3>these the the servant, the main occasionally occasionally the slave,

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<v Speaker 3>right you know. And and she in reality, she was this.

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<v Speaker 3>She has a three story house, she's you know, makes

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<v Speaker 3>a point like, I don't touch the kitchen. That's not

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<v Speaker 3>my job. My husband's gonna have to do that. She

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<v Speaker 3>smokes cigars, She has poker games every Sunday up on

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<v Speaker 3>the third floor, right you know. I mean, she loves

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<v Speaker 3>being first row of the boxing Max. And he says,

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<v Speaker 3>it's like it's the same she has the same voice

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<v Speaker 3>and the same face, but a completely different spine than

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<v Speaker 3>what I've seen on screen.

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<v Speaker 2>So it's he's just like he's trying to reconcile these

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<v Speaker 2>these two world exactly exactly.

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<v Speaker 3>And what's really one of the things I found so

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<v Speaker 3>compelling about that that community is Charlie was not Again,

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<v Speaker 3>he was not alone in having mixed feelings about the celebrities,

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<v Speaker 3>the black celebrities. In fact, the black business elite generally speaking,

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<v Speaker 3>really resented the black celebrities because they felt they were

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<v Speaker 3>undermining their own social progress, that these images that we

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<v Speaker 3>were seeing on the screen were demeaning the entire race.

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<v Speaker 3>And there wasn't a lot of sympathy for the position

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<v Speaker 3>that these actors were in. They were genuinely trying to

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<v Speaker 3>open doors, right, but the opportunities weren't there for better roles.

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<v Speaker 3>And for instance, when they did get better roles, those

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<v Speaker 3>roles were frequently thanks to the Hayes Office, which was

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<v Speaker 3>a censorship office, the parts that showed the racism, that

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<v Speaker 3>showed their agency were taken out like that was not acceptable.

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<v Speaker 3>And so even when they accepted roles that they thought, oh,

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<v Speaker 3>this is the role where I get to show my strength.

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<v Speaker 3>Then it's literally in a movie that Louise Beaver's was

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<v Speaker 3>in Imitation of Life, someone from the Hayes Office wrote

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<v Speaker 3>and said, looking at the script, it would appear you

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<v Speaker 3>don't seem to see how these the black servants don't

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<v Speaker 3>want more than being a black servant, that they want

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<v Speaker 3>to be independent. Surely, I know that you must be

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<v Speaker 3>wanting to show that they are happy with their place

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<v Speaker 3>in society, but it's not coming through, so you need

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<v Speaker 3>to adjust the script right exactly exactly so. But there

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<v Speaker 3>wasn't sympathy for that in the black communities or in

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<v Speaker 3>the black business elite.

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<v Speaker 1>And that's interesting.

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<v Speaker 2>So even within this affluent world, and Black America is

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<v Speaker 2>flourishing in this way, and your main character is coming

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<v Speaker 2>from this place where he just can't believe all these

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<v Speaker 2>black people are doing so well. But even within that

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<v Speaker 2>community there is this conflict. They're the business people and

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<v Speaker 2>then there's show people, the show business exactly.

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<v Speaker 1>Hold that thought. I'm because it's interesting.

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<v Speaker 2>You have to research all this right as a writer,

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<v Speaker 2>you know, getting the plot, finding your main character that's

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<v Speaker 2>going to run through this entire world. You have to

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<v Speaker 2>research that world because it is historically based your novel, right, yeah, yeah,

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<v Speaker 2>I want to talk to you a little bit about that,

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<v Speaker 2>and you know about what La was like it was

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<v Speaker 2>the mid nineteen forties, right, Yeah. I want to get

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<v Speaker 2>to again the books called The Great Man, and I

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<v Speaker 2>do want to mention Kira if you want to meet her.

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<v Speaker 2>There is a series of upcoming events. June tenth at

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<v Speaker 2>Romans in Pasadena. They always have great events there, They

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<v Speaker 2>just do such great Yeah, June eleventh, Diesel a bookstore

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<v Speaker 2>Santa Monica, another great spot. And then June nineteenth Chevalier's

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<v Speaker 2>Books in Los Angeles. Again the tenth, the eleventh, and

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<v Speaker 2>the nineteenth Romans, Diesel and Chevalier's. All that information, I

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<v Speaker 2>think is on your website. Is it's Karrad.

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<v Speaker 3>Davis, Kiridavisluriy dot com.

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<v Speaker 2>Cia Davislivery dot com. I knew you when you were

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<v Speaker 2>Kira Davis. Then you married an esteemed director, Rod Lurie.

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<v Speaker 2>He's very creative, also very talented guy.

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<v Speaker 3>He loses a lot of money to you in poker.

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<v Speaker 2>That's not the way I usually live it. But it's

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<v Speaker 2>a lot of creativity under that roof of yours. So

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<v Speaker 2>that's great Kira Davis Lorie. We continue the book is

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<v Speaker 2>The Great Man and more. As we continue, we're talking

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<v Speaker 2>to Kira Davis LORII. Kira Davis Lourie is a best

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<v Speaker 2>selling author. Her latest is The Great Man m A

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<v Speaker 2>double n She has, you know, book signings, and I

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<v Speaker 2>would imagine they'll read probably from the book as well

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<v Speaker 2>at these events June tenth at Romans and Sadena, June

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<v Speaker 2>eleventh at Diesel in Santa Monica, and June nineteenth at

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<v Speaker 2>Chevaliet's Books. It takes place in the nineteen forties, and

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<v Speaker 2>again it's historical novel. And this is your first piece

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<v Speaker 2>of historical fiction, I think, right it is, Yeah, and

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<v Speaker 2>so you had to research this period of the mid

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<v Speaker 2>nineteen forties and this part of LA, this affluent black

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<v Speaker 2>community made up of, as you suggested, show business performers

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<v Speaker 2>top of their game and the business elite top of

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<v Speaker 2>their game. These are real people. This is a real

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<v Speaker 2>place existed in LA in the mid nineteen forties. Two things,

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<v Speaker 2>were there things that surprised you? First of all in

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<v Speaker 2>your research and also was there stuff in there that

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<v Speaker 2>you didn't get a chance to include in the book.

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<v Speaker 3>Yeah, so, so much of it was surprising. For one thing,

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<v Speaker 3>you have to think of how people's feelings and their

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<v Speaker 3>view and the lens they saw Los Angeles through was

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<v Speaker 3>so different in good and bad ways. One of my

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<v Speaker 3>characters John Alexanders, he was the first African American to

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<v Speaker 3>graduate from USC. He had a dentistry degree and the

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<v Speaker 3>top of his class and opened up a huge luxury

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<v Speaker 3>hotel and YadA YadA. But he wrote not a biography,

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<v Speaker 3>and in it he talks about how Los Angeles, yes

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<v Speaker 3>there's racial problems, but we're so much more enlightened than

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<v Speaker 3>the majority of the country. For instance, you don't see

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<v Speaker 3>the race riots in Los Angeles that you see in

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<v Speaker 3>other parts of the country, and which was true when

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<v Speaker 3>he wrote that book.

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<v Speaker 1>But if you can always stick around a little wit

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<v Speaker 1>right exactly.

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<v Speaker 3>It's like, oh wow, this is like such a different

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<v Speaker 3>kind of viewpoint of what LA is. Right.

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<v Speaker 2>It was a sense, by the way, and just in

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<v Speaker 2>general in California, there's a sense of openness, of an acceptance.

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<v Speaker 2>I don't know to what extent that's just sort of

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<v Speaker 2>a brand that we have in California. How much of

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<v Speaker 2>it is really true, Yeah, but it's interesting that there

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<v Speaker 2>there was real his real sense, palpable sense of it.

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<v Speaker 1>Back in the mid nineteen forties.

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<v Speaker 3>He was I mean, he well, he was a very

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<v Speaker 3>he was a very optimistic man, and he definitely saw

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<v Speaker 3>he saw the opportunity. He felt like if you just

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<v Speaker 3>talked to people, were reasonable with them, things would progress.

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<v Speaker 3>And that was frequently his experience. Now, it is also

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<v Speaker 3>true that Los Angeles, a California in general, but definitely

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<v Speaker 3>particularly Los Angeles, had a lot of what they called

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<v Speaker 3>racial covenants. About eighty percent of Los Angeles the a

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<v Speaker 3>percent of the homes of Los Angeles had a covenant

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<v Speaker 3>on them saying that the only people who are allowed

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<v Speaker 3>to live in those homes were white people. Yeah, and

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<v Speaker 3>the only and if you were black, the only way

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<v Speaker 3>that you were allowed to live in those homes was

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<v Speaker 3>if you were a servant to white people and so,

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<v Speaker 3>and that included the homes in West Adam Heights. So

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<v Speaker 3>there was actually in the book at details there was

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<v Speaker 3>a lawsuit from the white neighbors who were trying to

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<v Speaker 3>get these people kicked out of their homes because of

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<v Speaker 3>the racial covenants on there.

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<v Speaker 2>So wow, yeah, in battle to their own neighborhoods exactly exactly.

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<v Speaker 3>And that's and it's sort of an interest again talk

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<v Speaker 3>about economies. You have these people in Minx who are

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<v Speaker 3>on the verge of being homeless because of people trying

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<v Speaker 3>to kick them out of their homes. So it's it's

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<v Speaker 3>based on race and nothing else. And at that time,

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<v Speaker 3>the racial covenants were considered legal, so it was it

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<v Speaker 3>was a real battle and that really started to be honest,

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<v Speaker 3>not with African Americans. It was a push against the

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<v Speaker 3>Chinese residence of the turn of the twentieth century in California,

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<v Speaker 3>and then it just sort of moved another ethnic group. Yes,

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<v Speaker 3>exactly exactly exactly what.

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<v Speaker 2>And what what what part of this world that your

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<v Speaker 2>researched in that mid nineteen forties world, in that neighborhood

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<v Speaker 2>that you described that's the backdrop for this book, The

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<v Speaker 2>Great Man. What would you have liked to include that

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<v Speaker 2>you couldn't, Okay, So.

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<v Speaker 3>Hattie McDaniel, she was Mammy and gone with the wind.

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<v Speaker 3>They had the premiere in a Georgia, Atlanta theater. It

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<v Speaker 3>was a segregated theater, so she was not allowed to

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<v Speaker 3>attend the premiere.

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<v Speaker 1>Yeah, there's so many of those kinds of stories exactly.

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<v Speaker 3>So they had this big premiere and just to put

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<v Speaker 3>an exclamation point on the whole thing, they brought in

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<v Speaker 3>a kid's choir that they kind of dressed up in

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<v Speaker 3>rags and they were it was a black kids choir

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<v Speaker 3>and they were going to sing and it was supposed

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<v Speaker 3>to be like the slaves of the plantation South for

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<v Speaker 3>this white audience and like to entertain them before in

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<v Speaker 3>that choir, one of the kids in that choir was

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<v Speaker 3>Martin Luther King.

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<v Speaker 1>J Wow. Yeah, what a fact, right, what a fact?

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<v Speaker 3>Right?

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<v Speaker 1>How did you discover that that was?

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<v Speaker 3>I mean when I was so that's again it's document.

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<v Speaker 3>When I was researching Hattie McDaniel looking through all the

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<v Speaker 3>materials of that premiere, I mean, that was in there,

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<v Speaker 3>and I'm like, but but nobody in nineteen forty five

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<v Speaker 3>knows who Martin Luther King Junior is. I can't include it.

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<v Speaker 3>I can't include it. It's like, so it doesn't But

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<v Speaker 3>but how much did I want to?

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<v Speaker 1>Right somehow? Exactly? That's wild.

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<v Speaker 2>That's so true though, when you immerse yourself in a

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<v Speaker 2>time period, you can't just jump out and go, hey,

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<v Speaker 2>by the way.

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<v Speaker 3>Right, it's nice h MLK and the yeah, and they're

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<v Speaker 3>going to be like, I'm sorry, who so sure, yeah,

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<v Speaker 3>it's And there was so much like that, and it

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<v Speaker 3>was really it was really a challenge for me choosing

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<v Speaker 3>what to include and and what just was just ended

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<v Speaker 3>up sounding like a lecture.

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<v Speaker 2>You know.

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<v Speaker 3>It's like I want to need to just be entertainment

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<v Speaker 3>and so but there was like all of this extra

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<v Speaker 3>stuff that I learned. I wish I could just sort

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<v Speaker 3>of pack in there, and you can't. Yeah, exactly, And

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<v Speaker 3>by the way.

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<v Speaker 2>You know, it's like there's no but it's got to

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<v Speaker 2>be a good ride for your reader, That's what I mean.

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<v Speaker 2>Obviously you're a best selling author. That's what you've been

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<v Speaker 2>true to and that ride for the reader. The great man,

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<v Speaker 2>so your character in the last couple of moments that

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<v Speaker 2>we have your character does get into this world and

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<v Speaker 2>again after military service, and I think falls in with

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<v Speaker 2>I was just reading about the book I have to

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<v Speaker 2>get into the book falls into with some not so

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<v Speaker 2>savory characters.

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<v Speaker 3>Yeah, well, okay, so I do have a gas b

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<v Speaker 3>esque character, right, So James quote unquote reaper man, right.

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<v Speaker 3>Reaper is his molecule that nobody uses to his face, right,

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<v Speaker 3>And it's he clearly has extraordinary wealth. He is like Hattie,

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<v Speaker 3>throwing huge gala events, except even bigger. The neighborhood. Both

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<v Speaker 3>the business moguls and the Hollywood elite are a little

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<v Speaker 3>nervous about this guy because they don't really know where

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<v Speaker 3>he came from or where his money came from. And

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<v Speaker 3>they're already battling for their homes, so they don't really

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<v Speaker 3>need any extra controversy that he may be bringing in.

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<v Speaker 3>But Charlie is really drawn to him, and he's very

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<v Speaker 3>kind to Charlie, and the parties are amazing, and so

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<v Speaker 3>he sort of gets wrapped up in his world too,

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<v Speaker 3>of just a little bit of like mystery, the hint

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<v Speaker 3>of maybe something nefarious but you don't really know ry

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<v Speaker 3>And and of course, as in Gatsby, it turns out

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<v Speaker 3>that he is truly in love with Charlie's cousin, who

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<v Speaker 3>is the one who brought him out. So it's like yeah,

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<v Speaker 3>so so yeah, so you know got and she is married,

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<v Speaker 3>so you know, there's the love triangle, there's like the

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<v Speaker 3>who is this guy? And there is also the clash

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<v Speaker 3>of the two communities and the court case and everything

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<v Speaker 3>going on.

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<v Speaker 2>Oh that's terrific. There sounds like there's so much in

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<v Speaker 2>this book. The great man Kia Davis Lourie, Hey, listen again.

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<v Speaker 2>I encourage you to meet Kira and participate in one

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<v Speaker 2>of three events. June tenth at Romans they do great

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<v Speaker 2>stuff in Pasadena.

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<v Speaker 1>You can meet Kira. She'll sign your book.

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<v Speaker 3>Yeah, and that's at seven, by the way, seven pm,

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<v Speaker 3>so come after work.

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<v Speaker 2>Oh great, okay, good, it's a nice evening event. June

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<v Speaker 2>eleventh at diesel a bookstore that's at sixth that's at

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<v Speaker 2>six in Santa Monica and Chevalier's Books in La on

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<v Speaker 2>the nineteenth.

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<v Speaker 1>What time is that.

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<v Speaker 3>Six six thirty? I think six thirty.

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<v Speaker 2>Okay, Well, you can check the website. Kira is k

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<v Speaker 2>y r A Kira Davis Lourie l u R I E.

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<v Speaker 2>Kiradavislurie dot com has all the information again. Romans, Diesel

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<v Speaker 2>and Chevalier's The book is out June tenth, The Great Man.

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<v Speaker 1>It takes place right here in La.

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<v Speaker 2>There's a Hollywood connection and La as most of us

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<v Speaker 2>had not seen it, I mean in the mid nineteen forties.

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<v Speaker 2>You know, I've learned more about La in the nineteen

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<v Speaker 2>forties in this conversation with you than I ever knew.

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<v Speaker 1>So You're so cool to stop to the studio. Thank you,

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<v Speaker 1>Thank you so much for having me give my best

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<v Speaker 1>to your husband.

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<v Speaker 2>I absolutely he was also a very talented guy filmmaker.

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<v Speaker 2>I hope his next work comes out soon and we

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<v Speaker 2>can talk to him as well.

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<v Speaker 3>It's going to be amazing.

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<v Speaker 1>Yeah, thanks Kira,