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Speaker 1: And she emerged from the fire. But what's really fascinating

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is she acknowledged them then suddenly saw this incredibly tall again,

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you know, forty feet maybe screaming figure, this bright figure,

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like really massive, standing on the hill.

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Speaker 2: You're listening to the Paranormal UK Radio Network and now

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it's time for the Paranormal Peep Show.

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Speaker 3: Hi, welcome to the Paranormal Peek Show on the Paranormal

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UK Radio Network. And joining me is regular host and

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guest speaker is ben Emlyn Jones. How are you, Ben, Hi, Neil,

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I'm very well, thank you.

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Speaker 4: It's good to be back on the show for yet

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another interesting interview and discussion.

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Speaker 3: Yeah, we haven't had your run at well because you've

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been away in America and doing all sorts of other

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conferences and things like that. Is it good to be

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back in the saddle again, as they say, it is.

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Speaker 1: Kind of Yeah.

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Speaker 4: I've been traveling a lot and going to a lot

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of events. I've as many as I can really, and

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I went to the premiers. Well, Caple Green has finally

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emerged and so yeah, and it's the sixtieth anniversary of

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the warm Inster saying coming up. So yeah, this calendar

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has quite packed.

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Speaker 1: At the moment.

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Speaker 3: Yeah, I've got my ticket for that, so I'll probably

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see you there. Great. Yeah, so a look look out

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for a video on that at some point in the

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future on the Paranormal UK Radio network. So we'll jump

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straight to our guest. And the last time I was

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just talking to him before we started to hit the record,

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But I think we had Andy Thomas our guest, about

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five years ago. Do you agree with that, Andy Ruffy

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on our show?

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Speaker 1: Well, medieval times Now it's seem so long ago, doesn't

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it that. So it's smart to be back.

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Speaker 3: Anyway, Thank you for joining us once again, so we're

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more positive terms to join us because the last time

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I think we spoke it was just as COVID was

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hitting our shores and we were discussing what's COVID nineteen

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and what does it all mean and things like that.

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And we've now kind of waded through all the things

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that came with that, all the unexpected things that came

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with that as well as the expected things. And you've

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written a new book, haven't you. So it's called Strange,

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is that right? It is?

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Speaker 1: And it is a bit strange, which is the idea

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the strangest thing of all about it, though, being that

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in the end, when you look around you and you

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look at all the paranormal things going on, as you

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all know, the strange isn't really that strange at all.

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So there is a kind of an irony in the

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name there, because it's about people's experiences of the paranormal

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and the strange that I've been collecting for a long

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while now, for all the thousands of people I've met

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over the years who are completely ordinary, normal folk with

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no interest at all in the paranormal, who had paranormal experiences,

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and because you know, I stand up on stages and

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blab about it, they feel safe to share their stories

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with me. So I thought, you know what, this needs

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recording and analyzed and put into a kind of a

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usable form. And what you realize is there's many forms

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of the paranormal, and yet you all kind of drawing

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up in the middle. And the book, I hope tells

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the story. There's a narrative in there, and by the

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end you realize, hang on, all these disparate things aren't disparate.

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Tools are all linked. The world is strange, The universe

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is leaky, which is a course for exciting.

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Speaker 3: So before you actually got to this book, you've written

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thads of other books. And my understanding is that you

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worked in an office for a while, then you tried

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your luck being a keyboard player in bands and things,

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and I know you still play the game with this day.

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But somewhere in that mix you started to get involved

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with crop circles. And was that always a fascination for

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you or was someone asking you to, hey, your fancy

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coming to a crop circle one day?

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Speaker 1: That's where it started. Yeah, So I mean crop circles

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that you know, as some people will know that, that's

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where it came from me, and that's what some people

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still know me as, although I've been studying loads of

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things over the years. But yeah, back in nineteen ninety one,

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I was in the West Country on holiday and there

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were loads of crop circles and I had kind of

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heard about them, and it was faintly curious about them,

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but didn't really think that much about them until I

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got down there where there were so many of them,

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and you know, every horizon you looked at there seemed

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to be another crop formation, and I just something, you know,

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something went thing in the pit of my stomach. That

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I really needed to know more, and that's when I

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sort of began this insane search to try to get

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to the bottom of what that was all about. But then,

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of course, the more you get into that, and I

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joined my own research team down here in Sussex and

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began to meet more and more people, you find there's

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loads of people that are investigating different strands, not only

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of crop circles, but paranormal as a whole. And of

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course that then leads you into people looking into UFOs

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and then cover ups and conspiracies, and you know, before

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I knew it, that took my life over really and

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by some strange securities route, I found myself being asking

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lectures about it and then write books. And here I

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am and so you know, I tour around trying to

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tell people, hey, this is still going on, and we're

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stuff's happening and maybe we should all talk about it.

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And luckily there are quite a lot of people who

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still will talk about it for all the skepticism that

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you know, you know, we always have to deal with.

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Speaker 3: Yeah, definitely, ben I.

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Speaker 4: Just as you also you are part of the organizing

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for the Glacesty Symposium as well. That's that's quite something.

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So it is quite an It's quite an event that

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some posia, wasn't it.

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Speaker 1: So, I mean, yeah, we just had the latest one

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a couple of weeks ago, and it's thirty five years old.

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It's done very well. I didn't begin it, I should

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tell you. I came in about three years later, and

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it's managed to survive. And I think the reason it's

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survived is that it's always grown, it's always evolved. We

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haven't stayed the same. It began looking at crop circles

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and UFOs, but you know, as we all realize, okay,

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this is the wall, came active with loads of other stuff.

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It gradually embraced that and now you know, we call

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it expand your Horizons event because it is about making

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people look at the world around them with new eyes.

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So we've managed to survive and people still come, which

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is ever so nice. And in the end, we're trying

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to get conversations going that are just not considered respectable

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in the mainstream world, which is ever so annoying. But

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it gives you a mission, you know, you know, it

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gives you a cause.

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Speaker 4: Does I mean it's really I mean, perhaps because because

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you have such a wide variety of interests and there's

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what perhaps what is contributed to success. I mean I

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couldn't go this year, unfortunately. I've had the tour of

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them over the years and I've really I've had a

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great time on both occasions. And there's there's UFOs there,

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there's like a deep geopolitics. I mean in our Crane

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was always like a big partner everything he did, his

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deep geopolitics.

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Speaker 1: God bless him.

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Speaker 4: I miss him and I think that's yeah, I think

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this is this is really what I think contributed. It

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contributes to why it's such a good event, and I

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do recommend going there.

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Speaker 1: Yeah, yeah, it covers a pro spectrum, but hopefully it

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all connects in the middle and it's all about just

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being able to have conversations that you know, it's not

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so easy to have outside of that safe environment. But

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equally then you meet like minded people there, you exist together,

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you share conversations and stories and of course that is

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where networks grow. And yeah, I'm pleased to say that.

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You know, the Glastonbris Symposium has they brought many people

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together over the years, which is fantastic.

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Speaker 3: It's a good, good example of people uniting together under

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one roof of things that they're prepared to be in

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the open and talk to each other about and they

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feel comfortable about it. And I'm sure that I've had

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the same experiences as you have, Andy writing books on

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the paranormal, where people will come up to you at

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the end of a talk and will privately tell you

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there they're strange, bizarre parent.

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Speaker 1: Oh Andy's Neil has unfrozen, oh dear has frozen normal.

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Speaker 3: Time past them, that ball of information to be filed

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away somewhere because they can't sort of just ignore it.

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And the Glastonbriees and posing and other places like changing Times.

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Speaker 1: Which you organize as well, and you.

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Speaker 3: Know other sorts of places that Ben's done, dreaming sources

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and the hyper Comparanormal meet upgroup which I used to run.

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It's a great place for people of like minds to

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gather and kind of discuss these things, and that's where

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these little nuggets of information sometimes pop up.

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Speaker 1: Which has helped.

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Speaker 3: You greatly in your latest book, of course, because you've

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actually very really cleverly listed your sources of information of

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where they've come to, whether they've come through communications i

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i e. Email or conversations or any other form and

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things like that, and so it's interesting to see how

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these things have come through to you. And what was

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going to ask you? Was there any kind of area

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of the paranormal You was always a bit suspicious that

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maybe couldn't be true, But you've since changed your mind.

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Speaker 1: About Ah, No, not really. I mean I've always been

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open minded. I mean, I was brought up as Roman Catholic,

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So you've got to be overn minded, haven't you. If

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you can believe that, you'll be able to look at anything.

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But I think, although that's not my pathway now, you know,

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I don't regret having that background because it opens you

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up to the mysterious, to the new menus, you know.

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And so no, I mean I've always said I will

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never ridicule anyone, no matter how seemingly bizarre their interests are.

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And the same with people that believe in conspiracy theories.

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If you have a theory that sounds bizarre, I'll hear

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it out if you've got some evidence and there's a

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conversation worth having. I'm not going to laugh at anyone,

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because things that you know, people do laugh at do

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sometimes turn out to be valid, or at least there's

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something they're worth talking about. And that's what I'm always saying.

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Let's talk about it now, Let's have the conversation, don't

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just brush it under the carpet. And I mean, I'm

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really lucky because I get to speak mostly to completely normal,

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everyday groups, you know, community groups. That's just the way

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it's gone. I give talks about other things too, history,

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folklore and whatever, and you just find therefore people there

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have never had that opportunity before to share with somebody

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that is going to be open to them. And it

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is amazing, like you say, Neil, what they come out

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with because suddenly they're in a safe space to do so.

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And the conversation will often begin with one of two things.

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One is, well, I've never told anybody this before, but

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and then they tell you some incredible stories. And the

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other is, well, I'm very skeptical about these things. But

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and then they tell you something they're clearly they're not

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skeptical at all. It some incredible paranormal event happened to them.

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But you know, yeah, recording that and making sort of

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some examination of what this means for reality, it's in

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a way, it's.

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Speaker 3: And we take a break here on the Paranormal peep

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show to allow Andy Chaplin, who is waiting in the

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sidelines to join us, to carry on into you and

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Andy Thomas right, and as you can see or here,

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we now have Andy Chaplin join us. He had trouble

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joining us via the teams which we are now using

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in replacement of Skype. But it's never been a happy

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bunny so far, and we don't think it will be

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for the rest of our days. So we're going to

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try and make sure that we don't get our Andy's confused,

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because we've got to Andy's in in the in the

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mix now. So Andy Thomas has agreed to be called

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Andy T and Andy Chaplin will just be still called Andy.

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Speaker 1: Is that all right?

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Speaker 3: Is that all clear? Everyone? Something to distinguish, So just

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to remind listeners. And Andy T has written a book

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called Strange and Paranormal Stories from various people he's met

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or dialogue with over the years. Now, I started to

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read the book a few days ago, Andy T. And

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one of the stories that struck me as very interesting

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was concerning and a guy that was walking his dog

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in Hong Kong, and he was walking up a hill

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from where he lived, and I believe if I recall, right,

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we have some war battle maybe from the Second World War,

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occurred in that vicinity, and he saw this luminous figure

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and the dog ran away and he went right up

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close to it. So can you take us through that story.

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It's very very interesting. Definitely, Well, we can even name

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the person that's happened to, so some of these stories

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in the book are anonymous. But this was a man

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called Mike Waller who I've known Mike for quite some

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years now, very irrespectable, upright standing member of society. And

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he worked in Hong Kong for many.

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Speaker 1: Years, and he was awaking for the British government there

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and would therefore go out, yeah, walking on the islands

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with his dog with the unusual name of Queen Queen.

254
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So Queen Queen's running up hill and suddenly, as dogs

255
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will do, and the paranormals around just suddenly reacted really

256
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strongly and was barking and going mad. And when Mike

257
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looked at what the dog was looking at, there was

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this sort of shimmering sort of looked like a thicker

259
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humanoid thigre there. But as you say, what was really

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fascinating was and Mike, you know, he's very open minded

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to this kind of thing. He was just he wanted

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to get closer, he wanted to look at it, and

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the nearer he realized that instead of it being one

264
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block of white shape, actually it was made up of

265
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lots of like mini globules of light, spheres of light

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making up with the whole of this humanoid figure, which

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is something that I've not heard before. But he was

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very clear about it. And what's fascinating was he was

269
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struck by this incredible sense of sadness about it. It's

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like this figure was trying to reach out in some

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way to him, but you know, it was seeing that

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they were fearful. The dog was going mad. He wasn't

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quite sure what to do.

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Speaker 5: Part of him.

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Speaker 1: Thought he should try and reach out to it, but

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then on the other hand, he thought, well, you know,

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I don't know what this is going to do. You know,

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it's not interfered with me yet, but it might do

279
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if I try to intervene. So yes, he then thought, well,

280
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I want to remember where the spot was, and he

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marked where he was standing very close now to this

282
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apparition with stones, and then the apparition faded away and

283
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he did go back there. He didn't see it again,

284
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but he then found out that there had indeed been

285
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a battle on those very slopes in World War two,

286
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presumably between the Americans and Japanese and the British. I

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imagine we're involved too, and we'll never know for sure.

288
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But the impression he got was this was somebody who

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died in this battle. And you know, in the classic

290
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ghost to the way that he often gets as the

291
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book records, when something's are traumatic death and often when

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it's quick death as well. It's like the spirit whatever

293
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you want to call it, doesn't know where it is,

294
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it doesn't know what's happened, and that's often when it

295
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will leave a ghost that will forever seem to appear

296
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in that place. Now we only know if that one

297
00:16:15,240 --> 00:16:18,720
sighting it, maybe others had also seen it, or maybe

298
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it was a one off. But this creature of the humanoid,

299
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we assume what's a personally, it left it smart there.

300
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It felt like it was trying to reach out in

301
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some way. Yeah, and it also what our story also

302
00:16:33,200 --> 00:16:36,919
identifies is something that often gets overlooked with ghost stories,

303
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is that there is an emotional value attached to it.

304
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So Mke felt very sad. He felt very melancholic afterwards

305
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about this. It wasn't frightening as such, as more he

306
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felt a longing to want to help this being, whatever

307
00:16:51,679 --> 00:16:54,399
it was. And that's something you hear in a number

308
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of ghost stories.

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Speaker 5: They knew and Ben, have you ever heard of an

310
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apposition being made up of different or at all? It

311
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sounds almost like when you get those Chinese displays of

312
00:17:04,440 --> 00:17:07,480
loads of drones together and they make like one big object.

313
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Speaker 3: But kind of Yeah, it's a strange one, isn't it.

314
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Speaker 4: He's not really heard of that. I've not heard of

315
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that at all. It's interesting that some and Andy t

316
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you say that some Mike have an open mind to

317
00:17:18,440 --> 00:17:21,119
this sort of thing, and indeed some witnesses to these

318
00:17:21,160 --> 00:17:25,039
phenomena and are people with a pre existing interest. However,

319
00:17:26,079 --> 00:17:27,880
as you I think you already stated earlier, a lot

320
00:17:27,880 --> 00:17:29,920
of them are just ordinary people who don't have a

321
00:17:29,960 --> 00:17:33,039
pre existing interest someone as they develop one afterwards as

322
00:17:33,039 --> 00:17:37,480
a result of their experience, whether it's UFO, cryptozoology, ghost

323
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or whatever.

324
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Speaker 3: It might be.

325
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Speaker 4: And that to me lends I think that lends a

326
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lot of credibility to it, because if these things were

327
00:17:48,000 --> 00:17:51,000
figments of our imagination. You wouldn't get that, you would

328
00:17:51,000 --> 00:17:54,000
get it would be something exclusively for pre existing believers.

329
00:17:55,359 --> 00:17:57,359
Speaker 1: Yeah, I agree with that. And then one of the

330
00:17:57,440 --> 00:17:59,720
things that really annoys me. And by the way, the

331
00:17:59,720 --> 00:18:03,000
book Strange opens with a bit of a salvo against

332
00:18:03,039 --> 00:18:05,599
the skeptics, gets that out of the way and then

333
00:18:05,640 --> 00:18:07,160
we can get on. Then we get on look at

334
00:18:07,160 --> 00:18:09,599
a really interesting evidence. Not trying to count to them

335
00:18:09,640 --> 00:18:12,319
all the time, but it does need saying that. They

336
00:18:12,359 --> 00:18:15,160
tend to just say, well, you wanted that to happen,

337
00:18:15,240 --> 00:18:18,039
so you imagined it. You wanted to meet your recently

338
00:18:18,200 --> 00:18:20,880
deceased relatives, so you imagine that you spoke to them.

339
00:18:21,039 --> 00:18:25,160
That is so ef thing, condescending. It's a patronizing, right,

340
00:18:25,240 --> 00:18:28,200
That's that's not what's happening to most people. Most people

341
00:18:28,240 --> 00:18:30,480
do not expect this. They have no wish to see

342
00:18:30,480 --> 00:18:33,119
a ghosts at all. It happens to them out of

343
00:18:33,160 --> 00:18:36,000
the blue. And as you said that, Ben, often that's

344
00:18:36,039 --> 00:18:38,640
the moment where they cross over and realize, hang on,

345
00:18:38,880 --> 00:18:41,000
all these things I've been hearing about over the years,

346
00:18:41,240 --> 00:18:43,839
maybe it's true after all, because you know, they then

347
00:18:43,960 --> 00:18:47,279
have that their own experience of it. So yeah, I

348
00:18:47,319 --> 00:18:50,720
think it's a very profound thing to meet the paranormal

349
00:18:51,039 --> 00:18:54,359
like that, and I think it's a personal experience that

350
00:18:54,599 --> 00:18:58,440
does open people up. Although as I mentioned earlier, some

351
00:18:58,480 --> 00:19:00,839
people will still say, well, that's I saw this ghost

352
00:19:01,240 --> 00:19:04,079
or whatever, and they'll describe it in great detail. But

353
00:19:04,160 --> 00:19:05,559
then they'll say at the end of it, but I'm

354
00:19:05,599 --> 00:19:08,400
still skeptical, and I left quite know what that means.

355
00:19:08,400 --> 00:19:10,559
That it's almost like they feel they have to say

356
00:19:10,559 --> 00:19:12,680
that in case anybody around them is going to make

357
00:19:12,720 --> 00:19:15,200
fun of them. So that's another interesting phenomenon.

358
00:19:16,359 --> 00:19:18,680
Speaker 3: I met a guy years ago who worked as a

359
00:19:18,720 --> 00:19:23,279
security guard and he had told me that he when

360
00:19:23,279 --> 00:19:26,279
he lived on one of these West Indian islands, I

361
00:19:26,319 --> 00:19:30,240
think it's Soilucia. He said that he was coming home

362
00:19:30,279 --> 00:19:32,880
from the bar one night with his mate. So you think, oh, yeah,

363
00:19:32,880 --> 00:19:34,720
he's had a few, But it was the fact that,

364
00:19:34,960 --> 00:19:37,759
you know, you talk about this, are they group hallucinations

365
00:19:37,839 --> 00:19:40,599
or possibly not? And both him and his friend as

366
00:19:40,599 --> 00:19:43,079
they walked up the hill, they came round the hill

367
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and on the church roof he said he saw a

368
00:19:45,599 --> 00:19:49,640
woman sitting on the church roof and I cad, what

369
00:19:49,680 --> 00:19:51,839
was the woman? Don't sitting on the church roof, and

370
00:19:51,839 --> 00:19:54,599
he says, she was no ordinary woman. She was as

371
00:19:54,759 --> 00:19:58,079
white as the fridge freezer. Because where we were working,

372
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we were actually in the staff canteen at the time,

373
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and there was the bridge freezer, and he used that

374
00:20:02,400 --> 00:20:04,960
as his kind of description tool, and he said it

375
00:20:05,000 --> 00:20:07,480
was as white as a fridge freezer. But she was

376
00:20:07,519 --> 00:20:10,799
at least fifty foot tall, and you know, my jaw

377
00:20:10,839 --> 00:20:13,200
dropped and I said, oh my god. He said, yes,

378
00:20:13,240 --> 00:20:15,839
she was sitting on the roof of this church with

379
00:20:15,960 --> 00:20:19,240
her feet either side of it. He couldn't believe it,

380
00:20:19,319 --> 00:20:21,799
so he checked with his friend, who by now was

381
00:20:21,920 --> 00:20:26,039
hiding in fright behind a gravestone, and he verified with him.

382
00:20:26,039 --> 00:20:28,960
He says, can you see what I can see? And

383
00:20:29,000 --> 00:20:32,440
he said, yes I can. So this security guard owen,

384
00:20:32,519 --> 00:20:34,400
he said, he picked up a stone and he threw

385
00:20:34,440 --> 00:20:37,400
it and it went straight through this fifty foot woman.

386
00:20:37,759 --> 00:20:39,880
And I said, well, what happened? Then he said, she

387
00:20:40,000 --> 00:20:43,640
stepped off this church like as if it was a

388
00:20:43,640 --> 00:20:46,519
doll's house that she was sitting, started to walk towards

389
00:20:46,559 --> 00:20:49,079
them as a fifty foot tall woman. And I always

390
00:20:49,119 --> 00:20:50,920
think it's not a good idea to throw stones at

391
00:20:50,920 --> 00:20:55,000
fifty lap women, but she shrunk inside, and as she

392
00:20:55,039 --> 00:20:59,000
shrank inside, she just dissipated and demateialized into the ground.

393
00:20:59,640 --> 00:21:02,640
But the interesting thing after all that, he said, I

394
00:21:02,720 --> 00:21:05,599
still don't believe in ghosts and goodies and things that

395
00:21:05,640 --> 00:21:08,319
go bumping, and I still don't believe they exist. And

396
00:21:08,359 --> 00:21:10,720
I said, well what about that? Then he says, I

397
00:21:10,759 --> 00:21:14,000
don't know. It's almost he was in denial because he

398
00:21:14,000 --> 00:21:17,240
didn't want to accept that reality that he had come

399
00:21:17,279 --> 00:21:20,319
across with his friend, which almost proved it to him

400
00:21:20,319 --> 00:21:21,079
because the batter.

401
00:21:21,279 --> 00:21:25,039
Speaker 4: Schools, Yeah, you can't two of you can't hallucinate the

402
00:21:25,079 --> 00:21:27,960
same things, right, Yeah, well, yeah.

403
00:21:27,759 --> 00:21:30,079
Speaker 1: You wouldn't have thought. I mean, I mean again, that

404
00:21:30,200 --> 00:21:33,559
is something that you know the book records is that often,

405
00:21:33,880 --> 00:21:36,920
as you know, it's more than one person that has

406
00:21:36,960 --> 00:21:40,000
this experience. So for this theory it's all in one

407
00:21:40,000 --> 00:21:43,240
person's mind. That is plainly just untrue because there's a

408
00:21:43,240 --> 00:21:45,960
lot of group sightings and it's very talking about people

409
00:21:46,000 --> 00:21:48,640
who see the paranormal but are still skeptical.

410
00:21:48,720 --> 00:21:49,039
Speaker 5: I mean.

411
00:21:49,319 --> 00:21:51,799
Speaker 1: Somebody that pops up through the narrative of the book

412
00:21:51,960 --> 00:21:55,559
is my friend Phil and Phil the guitarist as I

413
00:21:55,599 --> 00:21:57,799
call him, and I worked with Phil for many years,

414
00:21:57,799 --> 00:22:01,799
thirty four years. We dig together and he, you know,

415
00:22:01,880 --> 00:22:04,839
on the surface, he'll tell you he's a complete skeptic,

416
00:22:05,039 --> 00:22:07,400
but then he will regale you with all these strange

417
00:22:07,440 --> 00:22:10,240
things that have happened to him. And one interesting thing

418
00:22:10,359 --> 00:22:12,759
is tooking about big figures. So he and a group

419
00:22:12,799 --> 00:22:15,799
of friends, and they were in their late teens probably,

420
00:22:16,519 --> 00:22:19,079
were walking home one night past these kind of very

421
00:22:19,119 --> 00:22:22,279
black downlands not far from where I was born, actually,

422
00:22:22,559 --> 00:22:27,160
Lewis and his Sussex, and they suddenly saw this incredibly

423
00:22:27,279 --> 00:22:32,200
tall again, you know, forty feet maybe, screaming figure, this

424
00:22:32,400 --> 00:22:36,759
bright figure, like really massive, standing on the hill, screaming

425
00:22:36,799 --> 00:22:40,440
at the sky and with this horrible howling. And they

426
00:22:40,440 --> 00:22:44,079
were all so frightened by it, and they all saw

427
00:22:44,119 --> 00:22:46,559
it that they ran, and they noticed all the cattle

428
00:22:46,599 --> 00:22:49,839
in the fields nearby were running away from it as well.

429
00:22:49,839 --> 00:22:52,640
They were going completely mantle. The cattle was falling over

430
00:22:52,720 --> 00:22:55,680
trying to get away from it, which was terrifying. But

431
00:22:55,720 --> 00:22:57,599
of course they all knew they were all seeing the

432
00:22:57,599 --> 00:23:00,279
same thing, even the cattle were, so they knew they

433
00:23:00,279 --> 00:23:04,039
weren't just hallucinating it. And you know, it's things like

434
00:23:04,079 --> 00:23:06,640
that that you hear, and you never really get to

435
00:23:06,680 --> 00:23:09,839
make any sense of them other than I've learned since

436
00:23:09,920 --> 00:23:12,960
that other people have seen the same apparition in that

437
00:23:13,039 --> 00:23:16,079
same area. So this is the thing. It's like, the

438
00:23:16,160 --> 00:23:18,359
more people talk about it, the more you're going to

439
00:23:18,400 --> 00:23:20,799
get to hear the truth. Whereas Phil will say, well,

440
00:23:20,799 --> 00:23:23,160
I don't know, there must be some explanation, but he

441
00:23:23,200 --> 00:23:25,720
can't tell you what it is. And that's often the

442
00:23:25,799 --> 00:23:29,599
case with you know, the everyday paranormal people. They find

443
00:23:29,640 --> 00:23:32,640
a way to rationalize it, but really, in the end,

444
00:23:32,720 --> 00:23:35,559
you've got to begin to embrace, you know, the reality,

445
00:23:35,640 --> 00:23:38,119
possibly of other realms, to come to terms with it.

446
00:23:38,240 --> 00:23:40,680
I don't think anything does have a Monday and explanation.

447
00:23:41,039 --> 00:23:44,519
Speaker 5: Do you think that people don't genuinely don't believe, or

448
00:23:44,559 --> 00:23:48,720
that they don't want to because it might unopen the

449
00:23:48,720 --> 00:23:50,680
big can of worms that they don't want to kind

450
00:23:50,680 --> 00:23:52,519
of have a look at themselves.

451
00:23:53,119 --> 00:23:55,920
Speaker 1: Yeah, well, I think it is often that. I think

452
00:23:55,960 --> 00:23:58,559
there's a fear of the unknown and a fear of

453
00:23:58,599 --> 00:24:00,960
them having to embrace the universe that you can't make

454
00:24:01,000 --> 00:24:03,359
any sense of. Now we're used to talking about that.

455
00:24:03,400 --> 00:24:05,319
A lot of people aren't. It's all to them it's

456
00:24:05,359 --> 00:24:07,960
a to be it's black, it's white, and of course

457
00:24:08,000 --> 00:24:10,720
it isn't, but facing that it is something people don't

458
00:24:10,759 --> 00:24:12,759
want to go to. And I think we're seeing that

459
00:24:12,880 --> 00:24:16,920
really now very interestingly with the whole world of UFO

460
00:24:17,359 --> 00:24:22,079
stroke up research, where it's edging ever more closely to

461
00:24:22,759 --> 00:24:26,799
more and more surprisingly high level whistleblowers saying, hey, this

462
00:24:26,960 --> 00:24:29,480
is real, and now you're getting a kind of a

463
00:24:29,559 --> 00:24:32,039
kickback against that of people just don't want it to

464
00:24:32,079 --> 00:24:35,119
be real. You know, the most amazing, stunning bit of

465
00:24:35,119 --> 00:24:38,559
footage ever, somebody will still say it's blooms or whatever,

466
00:24:38,880 --> 00:24:41,440
because it's like they cannot face that. They know that

467
00:24:41,559 --> 00:24:44,920
the day that lid comes off, everything changes, And I mean,

468
00:24:45,039 --> 00:24:47,680
I think there's official factions that don't want that to

469
00:24:47,720 --> 00:24:51,440
happen because they're trying to protect themselves or who knows

470
00:24:51,480 --> 00:24:53,359
what they're trying to do. I think though, there is

471
00:24:53,400 --> 00:24:57,319
also a strong cultural allerge to not acknowledge it, because

472
00:24:57,319 --> 00:24:59,279
then you've got to realize the world you're living in

473
00:24:59,359 --> 00:25:02,480
is frightening. Same with belief in conspiracy theories. That's why

474
00:25:02,559 --> 00:25:06,400
some people will pooh pooh conspiracy theories because they don't

475
00:25:06,440 --> 00:25:08,240
want them to be true, because the day you say

476
00:25:08,240 --> 00:25:10,400
they are, they don't feel safe in the world they're

477
00:25:10,400 --> 00:25:12,200
living in. And yeah, I do think that is a

478
00:25:12,200 --> 00:25:12,920
big part of it.

479
00:25:13,119 --> 00:25:16,799
Speaker 5: What's the difference between a conspiracy theory and fast about

480
00:25:16,839 --> 00:25:20,440
six months every year? Well these there.

481
00:25:22,039 --> 00:25:22,079
Speaker 1: On.

482
00:25:22,240 --> 00:25:26,559
Speaker 5: On that note, andy T, this huge asteroid that they

483
00:25:26,599 --> 00:25:29,799
thought was an asteroid, some of the biggest scientific minds

484
00:25:29,839 --> 00:25:32,680
are now actually saying, well, actually there's about zero point

485
00:25:32,720 --> 00:25:35,599
five per said, this is a natural formation and could

486
00:25:35,599 --> 00:25:39,920
be a huge UFO heading to the UK. And there's

487
00:25:39,960 --> 00:25:42,440
now debate not so much whether it's a UFO or

488
00:25:42,440 --> 00:25:45,079
whether it's a natural asteroid, but whether it's come here

489
00:25:45,440 --> 00:25:47,440
for good reasons or to annihilate us.

490
00:25:48,680 --> 00:25:50,319
Speaker 3: I'm very glad you brought this because I was actually

491
00:25:50,319 --> 00:25:51,640
going to ask andy T about that.

492
00:25:51,880 --> 00:25:58,200
Speaker 4: But Atlas, Yeah, yeah, Well isn't it interesting?

493
00:25:58,319 --> 00:26:01,319
Speaker 1: And what's most interesting is how we all react to it. Now,

494
00:26:01,319 --> 00:26:04,160
there's been the occasional other body what was that I

495
00:26:04,160 --> 00:26:05,880
can't remember its name. There was that long thing that

496
00:26:06,079 --> 00:26:09,279
who was a owlar system thank you, a few years ago,

497
00:26:09,480 --> 00:26:11,960
and it was behaving oddly and then it seemed to

498
00:26:12,200 --> 00:26:14,720
go on its way. So this, if it is a comet.

499
00:26:14,920 --> 00:26:18,240
It's behaving very oddly. I mean, it's an interstellar object.

500
00:26:18,279 --> 00:26:20,200
It seems to have come from a long, long way away.

501
00:26:20,799 --> 00:26:24,039
It's not something that's generally orbiting around our solar system

502
00:26:24,079 --> 00:26:26,519
from what they're telling us something who knows, But yeah,

503
00:26:26,519 --> 00:26:29,160
I mean the way it's behaving, it's doing things that

504
00:26:29,279 --> 00:26:33,119
normal comets don't do, and the speed and the trajectory

505
00:26:33,160 --> 00:26:35,839
that seems to be heading roughly our way. I mean,

506
00:26:35,880 --> 00:26:38,440
it doesn't seem to be on a collision course today,

507
00:26:38,599 --> 00:26:41,480
but who knows. Yeah, it's made some people, even like

508
00:26:41,519 --> 00:26:45,160
you say it's surprisingly high level people are saying, well,

509
00:26:45,160 --> 00:26:48,759
this is actually quite odd. So one of the reasons

510
00:26:48,759 --> 00:26:51,400
some people think there is a UFO cover up is

511
00:26:51,440 --> 00:26:54,559
that they think will be just too terrified to know

512
00:26:54,599 --> 00:26:57,279
what's coming if they told us the truth. So you know,

513
00:26:57,319 --> 00:26:59,400
now theo's theory is, yeah, is this the thing coming

514
00:26:59,440 --> 00:27:02,599
to visitors? Is it going to hark itself in orbit

515
00:27:02,720 --> 00:27:05,119
and that's the big unveiling, or is it going to

516
00:27:05,200 --> 00:27:07,599
hit us and wipe us all out because somebody else

517
00:27:07,599 --> 00:27:11,119
there's decided we're too dangerous. And either way, you know,

518
00:27:11,160 --> 00:27:13,960
the authorities probably think the day we know that he

519
00:27:14,039 --> 00:27:16,160
they lose all control and be a lot of people

520
00:27:16,200 --> 00:27:18,599
will go a bit mad, which they probably will.

521
00:27:19,119 --> 00:27:20,400
Speaker 3: So yeah, isn't it.

522
00:27:20,400 --> 00:27:21,279
Speaker 1: It's very interesting.

523
00:27:21,559 --> 00:27:23,799
Speaker 4: It is exactly how people would I mean, I'd be

524
00:27:23,799 --> 00:27:26,240
thrilled to bits. But yeah, And there's a lot of

525
00:27:26,319 --> 00:27:31,279
really sensationalist headlines which you see everywhere, which like alien

526
00:27:31,319 --> 00:27:33,599
invasion in six months and things like this is all nonsense.

527
00:27:33,799 --> 00:27:36,279
It's all based on the look of Professor Avi Loebe,

528
00:27:36,319 --> 00:27:40,440
who's the scientist who actually originally discovered a muama and

529
00:27:41,079 --> 00:27:43,720
it's his blog is actually fascinating in the various papers

530
00:27:43,720 --> 00:27:46,599
he's written. He's very very senior, isn't He's in Israeli,

531
00:27:46,640 --> 00:27:51,000
but he's actually head of the American Astronomical Society, and

532
00:27:51,039 --> 00:27:53,519
he actually is in the Harvard University. I can't remember

533
00:27:53,519 --> 00:27:55,799
that the title of his position. He's basically a head

534
00:27:55,799 --> 00:27:58,519
of astronomy and astrophysics, the most.

535
00:27:58,319 --> 00:28:00,319
Speaker 3: Senior as you can get. So this is the going

536
00:28:00,359 --> 00:28:01,720
with a tin four hat. Definitely not.

537
00:28:03,359 --> 00:28:06,440
Speaker 4: But he's been treated I mean, for example, he did

538
00:28:06,440 --> 00:28:09,559
an interview with Jill Tata, who's someone who works for SETI,

539
00:28:10,000 --> 00:28:12,319
the Search for Extra Trust and Intelligence. I mean, she

540
00:28:12,440 --> 00:28:16,359
swore at him on this public forum, and I thought

541
00:28:16,920 --> 00:28:20,440
it's a really there's been a real emotional of a

542
00:28:20,480 --> 00:28:23,279
reaction to what he said. And I'm sure there are

543
00:28:23,279 --> 00:28:25,480
plenty of scientists out there who secretly agree with him,

544
00:28:25,480 --> 00:28:27,359
but they don't want the kind of agro he's had

545
00:28:27,359 --> 00:28:27,880
to put up with.

546
00:28:28,920 --> 00:28:31,880
Speaker 1: No Well, and that's something that you know, I've written

547
00:28:31,880 --> 00:28:34,920
about before in my other book, my previous book, The

548
00:28:34,960 --> 00:28:39,480
New Heretics. When an official mainstream scientist says one thing

549
00:28:39,559 --> 00:28:43,079
that is off topic, they are branded maverick and that's it.

550
00:28:43,240 --> 00:28:47,079
All their scientific credentials are pushed aside, and clearly they're

551
00:28:47,079 --> 00:28:49,759
mad and wrong. And that happens all the time, which

552
00:28:49,799 --> 00:28:54,000
of course creates this horrible, constant polarization where you want

553
00:28:54,039 --> 00:28:56,839
people in the official scientific world to get on board

554
00:28:56,839 --> 00:28:59,319
and look at the paranormal or whatever it may be,

555
00:28:59,519 --> 00:29:01,640
and of course they're fearful to do so because they

556
00:29:01,680 --> 00:29:04,079
know the day they do that their careers are over.

557
00:29:04,119 --> 00:29:06,000
And there's another good example of that in the moment now,

558
00:29:06,039 --> 00:29:09,000
ben you usinly good or names. I can't remember her name,

559
00:29:09,039 --> 00:29:12,039
but there's an astronomer. Now, there's another astronomer working with

560
00:29:12,079 --> 00:29:14,720
her who's been looking at old plates.

561
00:29:15,200 --> 00:29:20,960
Speaker 4: Bitches, feel the real that's certainly Swedish lady. That's such

562
00:29:21,000 --> 00:29:23,680
a geek because I can't remember her name, So that's fantastic.

563
00:29:23,839 --> 00:29:26,400
Speaker 1: So yes, So she's now look at these plates taken

564
00:29:26,519 --> 00:29:31,440
before any known space travel here, and there's different docs

565
00:29:31,480 --> 00:29:34,920
moving around and they're clearly not stars, they're not asterized.

566
00:29:35,119 --> 00:29:35,759
Speaker 5: What are they?

567
00:29:36,200 --> 00:29:38,839
Speaker 1: And she's saying, I don't think we can ignore this now,

568
00:29:39,079 --> 00:29:41,119
And she's trying at the moment to get a peer

569
00:29:41,160 --> 00:29:44,680
review paper published, although I think she's beginning to think

570
00:29:44,680 --> 00:29:48,000
it won't be because again, it just doesn't speak the orthodoxy,

571
00:29:48,039 --> 00:29:51,680
because basically it says, hey, there was something flying around

572
00:29:51,720 --> 00:29:54,119
the Earth, even back then when there wasn't supposed to be,

573
00:29:54,240 --> 00:29:57,319
So what are they? And that's an astronomer. But even

574
00:29:57,400 --> 00:30:00,359
just daring to raise that you just get slam down.

575
00:30:00,519 --> 00:30:01,359
And it's such a shame.

576
00:30:01,640 --> 00:30:04,720
Speaker 3: And I've noticed that she's actually published the draft. I mean,

577
00:30:05,160 --> 00:30:07,799
I think she's certainly not naive, because I think she

578
00:30:07,880 --> 00:30:09,400
realizes exactly how.

579
00:30:09,279 --> 00:30:11,400
Speaker 4: Different this is going to be for her. So it's

580
00:30:11,400 --> 00:30:13,119
she actually put the draft on a PDF and put

581
00:30:13,119 --> 00:30:13,960
it in a public domain.

582
00:30:13,960 --> 00:30:14,640
Speaker 1: I've read it.

583
00:30:14,680 --> 00:30:16,759
Speaker 4: I've read the whole thing, A lot of it's very technical.

584
00:30:16,799 --> 00:30:19,279
I don't understand every word, but she clearly has gone

585
00:30:20,039 --> 00:30:24,680
to great troubles to eliminate other possibilities, the possibility of art,

586
00:30:24,720 --> 00:30:27,960
of natural objects in the sky, of blemishes on the film,

587
00:30:28,319 --> 00:30:33,440
are the kinds of effects. And it really this doesn't

588
00:30:33,440 --> 00:30:37,119
get published, it'll obviously be for an ideological reason and

589
00:30:37,200 --> 00:30:38,599
not because it's unscientific.

590
00:30:39,920 --> 00:30:43,880
Speaker 1: Yeah. Well, it's a bit like Richard Tarness, who wrote

591
00:30:43,920 --> 00:30:47,000
this incredible book about so the Western history and the

592
00:30:47,000 --> 00:30:49,440
Western mind and all of that, and then one day

593
00:30:49,440 --> 00:30:51,279
he decided he was going to write a book about

594
00:30:51,279 --> 00:30:53,640
astrology and why it works, and of course that was

595
00:30:53,680 --> 00:30:55,880
the end of his career. So the minute you cross

596
00:30:56,000 --> 00:31:00,359
out of that very narrow band the scientism says is real,

597
00:31:00,839 --> 00:31:05,319
that's the reality. Unfortunately, But mainly she will just decide, look,

598
00:31:05,359 --> 00:31:07,759
this is so important to me, I don't care. I've

599
00:31:07,759 --> 00:31:10,039
got to go public with this. And the fact that

600
00:31:10,119 --> 00:31:13,440
you're saying that she's put this pdf out there already,

601
00:31:13,519 --> 00:31:15,720
I mean in the way she's kind of condemned herself,

602
00:31:15,799 --> 00:31:19,000
I don't doubt, because so that will now be embraced

603
00:31:19,000 --> 00:31:21,519
by mad people like us, and of course that would

604
00:31:21,519 --> 00:31:23,119
be the end of the first scientific career. But what

605
00:31:23,200 --> 00:31:24,119
a silly will.

606
00:31:24,000 --> 00:31:24,440
Speaker 5: We live in?

607
00:31:25,880 --> 00:31:28,400
Speaker 4: It's a fatal company because she's already in trouble for

608
00:31:28,480 --> 00:31:32,759
joining Dennis Asperria, the man who discovered the Baltic Sea anomaly,

609
00:31:32,839 --> 00:31:36,119
the strange object on the seabed that he's with, the

610
00:31:37,400 --> 00:31:41,039
with the company that actually found her. Yeah, so she's

611
00:31:41,079 --> 00:31:42,119
actually working with him.

612
00:31:42,119 --> 00:31:46,240
Speaker 5: Nelson. Yes, if this object does turn out to be

613
00:31:46,440 --> 00:31:50,480
in quote, alien, that raises some interesting questions because we

614
00:31:50,599 --> 00:31:52,680
need to find out the speed of it. And then

615
00:31:53,000 --> 00:31:55,359
given the speed, how long it would take or how

616
00:31:55,400 --> 00:31:58,200
long this object would have taken to get here from

617
00:31:58,279 --> 00:32:02,519
let's say the newest inhabitable planet, whatever that might be,

618
00:32:02,960 --> 00:32:06,359
or star or edge of the Solar system? You know,

619
00:32:06,519 --> 00:32:08,559
how long would it have taken for this object to

620
00:32:08,599 --> 00:32:11,960
get here? And if it's something like light years, you know,

621
00:32:12,000 --> 00:32:14,759
equating even into thousands of years or millions of years,

622
00:32:15,240 --> 00:32:19,400
is that feasible or is it somehow jumping through wormholes

623
00:32:19,480 --> 00:32:21,960
or something like that. So the kind of like the

624
00:32:22,000 --> 00:32:23,960
logical kind of like the nuts and bolts of it,

625
00:32:24,039 --> 00:32:25,359
I'm quite interested in as well.

626
00:32:25,960 --> 00:32:28,599
Speaker 4: Currently, all the current theories are based on the premise

627
00:32:28,680 --> 00:32:30,480
that this is a natural object in the space has

628
00:32:30,519 --> 00:32:33,240
been on the same trajectory for billions of years out

629
00:32:33,279 --> 00:32:36,519
in space before it stumbled onto the Solar System by accident,

630
00:32:38,000 --> 00:32:40,960
and they're saying it's it actually emerged from Sagittarius in

631
00:32:41,000 --> 00:32:43,519
the direction of Sagittarius, which is basically where they the

632
00:32:43,519 --> 00:32:47,920
galactic core is, and so it's probably come from they

633
00:32:47,960 --> 00:32:52,839
reckon from that region. Although this is all dependent Neil, Sorry, Andy,

634
00:32:52,839 --> 00:32:56,319
as you said, it's all dependent on that fact if

635
00:32:56,359 --> 00:32:58,400
fat fast is not true. So for example, if it

636
00:32:58,519 --> 00:33:01,920
changes course again, then we've got to assume that maybe it.

637
00:33:01,920 --> 00:33:04,519
Speaker 3: Changed courses before. But one important point.

638
00:33:04,440 --> 00:33:08,200
Speaker 4: To raise here is that it's pretty obviously you can't

639
00:33:08,240 --> 00:33:09,359
cover things like this up.

640
00:33:09,440 --> 00:33:09,680
Speaker 1: Sure.

641
00:33:09,880 --> 00:33:12,200
Speaker 4: If you get a crash retrieval like Roswell, it's it's

642
00:33:12,200 --> 00:33:15,480
it's quite comparatively very easy to suppress because it's a

643
00:33:15,519 --> 00:33:18,720
strictly local affair. You just steal off the area, you

644
00:33:18,759 --> 00:33:21,279
get rid of the decisive evidence, and then you just

645
00:33:21,480 --> 00:33:23,440
put out a weather balloon story or something like that.

646
00:33:23,640 --> 00:33:26,640
This is something above our heads that all the telescopes

647
00:33:26,640 --> 00:33:29,599
in the world can see, and there's thousands of millions

648
00:33:29,599 --> 00:33:34,039
of amateurs, there's thousands of professional astronomers, so it's not

649
00:33:34,079 --> 00:33:37,400
actually possible to suppress this, so I know it.

650
00:33:37,960 --> 00:33:41,720
Speaker 5: If they're saying this is coming from Sagittarius and probably

651
00:33:41,799 --> 00:33:43,759
a natural object, why there's so many people saying that

652
00:33:43,799 --> 00:33:46,359
it's not a natural object and they're saying that there's

653
00:33:46,359 --> 00:33:49,000
a zero point five percent chance being an edilo pet.

654
00:33:49,920 --> 00:33:53,920
Speaker 4: Avi Lobe actually and tis our guess. But Avi Lobe

655
00:33:53,960 --> 00:33:56,720
on his blog has a full explanation about exactly why

656
00:33:57,039 --> 00:33:59,279
he says it's quite likely this is non natural.

657
00:34:00,680 --> 00:34:02,799
Speaker 1: I mean, I think in the end, the only problem

658
00:34:02,839 --> 00:34:05,279
we have is that we have her claims like this before.

659
00:34:05,920 --> 00:34:08,360
You might remember in the nineties, was it comet hail

660
00:34:08,480 --> 00:34:11,679
bop and everybody's said that there's an alien presence and

661
00:34:11,719 --> 00:34:14,719
something's following it. But wasn't that the one that triggered

662
00:34:14,719 --> 00:34:19,360
this mass suicide? So the danger is yes, I say

663
00:34:19,679 --> 00:34:22,480
that people they project a lot onto these and then

664
00:34:22,519 --> 00:34:24,760
of course it goes again and nothing happens, and of

665
00:34:24,760 --> 00:34:27,039
course that doesn't look very good. Then when people put

666
00:34:27,039 --> 00:34:30,079
these ideas forward again, though, you have to just be

667
00:34:30,159 --> 00:34:33,079
open minded, like you say, Ben, at the end of

668
00:34:33,119 --> 00:34:35,679
the day, you can't cover this up if that suddenly

669
00:34:35,719 --> 00:34:38,679
starts to maneuver in ways that no known comet does.

670
00:34:38,920 --> 00:34:40,599
They're not going to be able to hide that, and

671
00:34:40,599 --> 00:34:44,519
so that's going to be really interesting to see what happens. Right.

672
00:34:44,679 --> 00:34:46,679
Speaker 3: I think we need to take a break here, guys,

673
00:34:46,719 --> 00:34:50,079
because we're running up to near the hour, So we'll

674
00:34:50,440 --> 00:34:52,800
take a break and we'll be back with Part two

675
00:34:52,880 --> 00:34:55,760
with Andy Tass on the Paranormal Peak Show on the

676
00:34:55,800 --> 00:35:02,920
Paranormal UK Radio Networks. Stay with us the Day's the

677
00:35:03,039 --> 00:35:09,039
best day life listening to the Paranormal UK Readio Network.

678
00:35:10,360 --> 00:35:13,440
Speaker 4: Join Andrew o'leil every month on the Paranor peep Show,

679
00:35:13,639 --> 00:35:16,760
part of the Paranoral UK Radio Network for fun that

680
00:35:16,880 --> 00:35:21,920
frolics and lots of information about weird stuff, UFOs, ghosts

681
00:35:21,960 --> 00:35:23,800
and things that go bump in the night and everything

682
00:35:23,800 --> 00:35:27,960
associated with them. Fascinating guests, fascinating talk, fascinating information.

683
00:35:31,800 --> 00:35:34,360
Speaker 3: Welcome back to the Paranormal Peep Show and the Paranormal

684
00:35:34,480 --> 00:35:38,320
UK Radio Network with myself, nil Ward, Ben Emlin, Jones,

685
00:35:38,400 --> 00:35:41,880
Andy Chaplin and our guest Andy Thomas. Now, before we

686
00:35:41,920 --> 00:35:45,840
get to Anie Thomas, Andy Chaplin wants to talk about

687
00:35:46,000 --> 00:35:48,119
Astra Zeneca, So go ahead, ay.

688
00:35:48,519 --> 00:35:51,159
Speaker 5: So we all love a good conspiracy theory don't we nail.

689
00:35:51,400 --> 00:35:54,719
And the whole COVID era was we've got to be

690
00:35:54,719 --> 00:35:58,360
careful what we say because we're now living under communist censorship,

691
00:35:58,800 --> 00:36:01,920
under labor the mark this communist Labor party who wants

692
00:36:01,920 --> 00:36:03,760
to sense everything. So we've got to be a little

693
00:36:03,760 --> 00:36:05,519
bit careful about what we say. So don't get the

694
00:36:05,559 --> 00:36:08,000
stars in knocking at the door. But I came across

695
00:36:08,039 --> 00:36:14,039
something very disturbing over the weekend about the name Astrazenica,

696
00:36:14,400 --> 00:36:18,599
now Astrosenica. People think that the name sounds so futuristic

697
00:36:18,679 --> 00:36:21,880
and modern. You think about the cosmos and astrology and

698
00:36:21,960 --> 00:36:25,840
kind of like reaching for the stars. Astrasenica they're going

699
00:36:25,920 --> 00:36:29,360
to fix everything, right, Okay, this is a thing that

700
00:36:29,400 --> 00:36:31,800
people can do at home, and you can kind of

701
00:36:31,840 --> 00:36:33,960
like go along with this at home to test it.

702
00:36:34,000 --> 00:36:36,159
Because when I first saw this, you've got to be

703
00:36:36,280 --> 00:36:38,360
wary of these things, and you've got to be objective

704
00:36:38,360 --> 00:36:41,000
and skeptical and think, Okay, is this just a load

705
00:36:41,039 --> 00:36:44,280
of old bollocks or is this true? And you've got

706
00:36:44,320 --> 00:36:46,960
to do this with all sources of information. I want

707
00:36:47,000 --> 00:36:50,119
people to go on to Google Translate, and I want

708
00:36:50,119 --> 00:36:53,800
you to go from Latin to English. Okay, and then

709
00:36:53,840 --> 00:36:57,599
I want you to break down the name Astrosenica into this,

710
00:36:58,360 --> 00:37:07,400
a stra z nika, a stra z nicker so astra

711
00:37:07,519 --> 00:37:10,760
Zeneca broken down, guess what it comes out as.

712
00:37:11,159 --> 00:37:12,599
Speaker 3: What's the Latin A.

713
00:37:12,760 --> 00:37:14,199
Speaker 5: Road to death?

714
00:37:15,280 --> 00:37:15,960
Speaker 1: Road to death?

715
00:37:16,000 --> 00:37:18,639
Speaker 5: Oh, my god, road to death. I'm going to put

716
00:37:18,679 --> 00:37:21,039
it in chat. You can have a look. And I've

717
00:37:21,079 --> 00:37:23,440
tested this, so it's not a case of you see

718
00:37:23,440 --> 00:37:25,800
an image and you believe it and then you test it. Oh,

719
00:37:25,840 --> 00:37:28,199
it's a load of old rubbish. No, no, no, you literally

720
00:37:28,239 --> 00:37:33,840
going to Google translate from Latin to English astra Nika

721
00:37:34,119 --> 00:37:38,320
A road to death. They're actually telling you what they're doing.

722
00:37:40,480 --> 00:37:42,519
Speaker 1: Made that they do the don't they?

723
00:37:42,519 --> 00:37:44,280
Speaker 3: I mean, this is in a way. Aren't this done?

724
00:37:44,280 --> 00:37:44,800
Surprising me?

725
00:37:44,840 --> 00:37:48,079
Speaker 5: Andy? Because yeah, they doesn't. The illuminacy always do this.

726
00:37:48,880 --> 00:37:50,840
They've got to tell you what they're doing. If they're

727
00:37:50,840 --> 00:37:53,320
going to screw you over or they're going to genocide you,

728
00:37:53,360 --> 00:37:55,840
they've got to tell you what they're doing. And you see,

729
00:37:55,920 --> 00:37:56,840
what's your comment on this?

730
00:37:57,800 --> 00:38:00,559
Speaker 1: Oh, I have no idea. I mean, isn't it fun? Though?

731
00:38:00,760 --> 00:38:02,800
You start looking at the origins of a lot of

732
00:38:02,840 --> 00:38:06,039
industrial names, and I'm sure we would get the real

733
00:38:06,119 --> 00:38:08,280
story coming out, Like I think you're right. I think

734
00:38:08,519 --> 00:38:11,679
look embedded symbolism. It's only fun if you can actually

735
00:38:11,760 --> 00:38:14,679
let people know that it is embedded symbolism. If it's

736
00:38:14,679 --> 00:38:17,440
too clever, they don't get any satisfaction out of that.

737
00:38:17,559 --> 00:38:20,559
So what can we say. It would be worth asking

738
00:38:20,599 --> 00:38:22,480
them one day what they haven't say about that.

739
00:38:23,079 --> 00:38:25,280
Speaker 4: It's not used to do with their belief system. I mean,

740
00:38:25,559 --> 00:38:27,880
for Vince, people who've been inside are sort of like

741
00:38:27,880 --> 00:38:31,360
black magic areas. I mean Mark Pascio for example, is

742
00:38:31,400 --> 00:38:34,719
a very good source for this. They said, the reason

743
00:38:34,719 --> 00:38:36,159
they have to tell you is only so they have

744
00:38:36,239 --> 00:38:37,800
to tell you in advance what they're doing. They have

745
00:38:38,079 --> 00:38:40,199
not directly, but they hint at it, and they least

746
00:38:40,199 --> 00:38:44,599
clues and it's in their belief system, you see. It's

747
00:38:44,840 --> 00:38:48,719
it's like a karmic it's a carmic green light if

748
00:38:48,719 --> 00:38:50,079
we then don't.

749
00:38:50,519 --> 00:38:53,280
Speaker 5: But their belief system is if they tell you, then

750
00:38:53,320 --> 00:38:56,760
technically they've given your then you've given consent if you

751
00:38:56,800 --> 00:38:59,639
don't object through. I think that's where they're coming from.

752
00:39:00,000 --> 00:39:01,960
Speaker 4: So obviously it's not something signed in triplical, which is

753
00:39:02,039 --> 00:39:04,119
very comprehensive. It's a hint it's a clue.

754
00:39:04,320 --> 00:39:05,280
Speaker 3: It's like you get.

755
00:39:05,119 --> 00:39:08,239
Speaker 4: These strange symbols in movies, you know, like Neo's passport

756
00:39:08,239 --> 00:39:10,679
expired on nine to eleven and things like that. It's

757
00:39:10,719 --> 00:39:12,519
them saying, you know, this is what we're going to do.

758
00:39:12,599 --> 00:39:15,679
And if you don't notice these things and don't say anything,

759
00:39:15,760 --> 00:39:17,280
don't object, and don't.

760
00:39:17,079 --> 00:39:19,480
Speaker 3: Stop us, it's your fault. Is this why I put

761
00:39:19,519 --> 00:39:22,159
everything in Latin in medical terms so that they can

762
00:39:23,599 --> 00:39:25,280
sweep it under the carpet a little bit.

763
00:39:26,639 --> 00:39:28,559
Speaker 5: Well, I don't know about medical terms, but certainly the

764
00:39:28,639 --> 00:39:31,559
Bible was originally in Latin, and there was objections in

765
00:39:31,639 --> 00:39:34,360
turning it into English for that very reason. They wanted

766
00:39:34,360 --> 00:39:37,280
it to be in control of you know, the people

767
00:39:37,280 --> 00:39:39,400
in the fox that have their connecting with God. They

768
00:39:39,400 --> 00:39:41,599
didn't want it in English for the masses to learn.

769
00:39:42,400 --> 00:39:44,920
Speaker 4: Yeah, I mean the people think the King James Bible

770
00:39:45,000 --> 00:39:46,719
was the first English Bible. No, there was a guy

771
00:39:46,800 --> 00:39:50,239
called Wesley, I think John somebody Wesley here in Oxford

772
00:39:50,239 --> 00:39:53,400
where I live, four hundred years earlier. He translated the

773
00:39:53,400 --> 00:39:55,960
Bible into English. He made it, he published his own translation.

774
00:39:56,159 --> 00:39:59,320
Speaker 3: What happened to him so that he was lynched by

775
00:39:59,320 --> 00:39:59,960
a gang of priest.

776
00:40:00,840 --> 00:40:02,039
Speaker 5: Yeah.

777
00:40:02,360 --> 00:40:04,119
Speaker 3: Yeah, lots of people were burnt at the stake and

778
00:40:04,159 --> 00:40:08,840
things for translating to English, an irony of you do

779
00:40:08,559 --> 00:40:10,880
not do no harm and that kind of stuff is

780
00:40:10,960 --> 00:40:14,159
this makes a complete fallacy of the whole thing. Anyway,

781
00:40:14,199 --> 00:40:19,599
getting back to Andy Thomas's book, The Fantastic New Arrival

782
00:40:19,719 --> 00:40:23,920
on the Paranormal Bookshelves called Strange, we were talking about

783
00:40:24,000 --> 00:40:26,679
ghosts in part one and I still haven't kind of

784
00:40:26,719 --> 00:40:29,199
completely left her air or I know, there's other areas

785
00:40:29,239 --> 00:40:32,440
to go into within the book itself. One of the

786
00:40:32,480 --> 00:40:36,559
other intriguing ghost stories Andy t that we well I

787
00:40:36,679 --> 00:40:41,519
read anyway, was the lady that materialized out of some

788
00:40:41,679 --> 00:40:46,519
people's chimney and they came out the fire six this lady,

789
00:40:46,639 --> 00:40:47,400
can you tell us about?

790
00:40:47,400 --> 00:40:51,159
Speaker 1: That's really fascinating that one. Okay, what's good about that

791
00:40:51,320 --> 00:40:54,039
is again that is another example of more than one

792
00:40:54,079 --> 00:40:57,280
person witnessing the same thing. So they were an elderly couple,

793
00:40:57,400 --> 00:40:59,960
but they had them marbles and I was chatting to them,

794
00:41:00,440 --> 00:41:03,079
and then in the way of it, they're very casual about, oh,

795
00:41:03,920 --> 00:41:06,400
we had a ghost walk out of our fireplace one day,

796
00:41:06,599 --> 00:41:08,480
you know, like that's the most normal thing in the world.

797
00:41:09,920 --> 00:41:12,800
Because so they lived in a nice old country English

798
00:41:12,840 --> 00:41:16,119
house and they had a big fireplace and they would

799
00:41:16,199 --> 00:41:19,360
sit on a you know, cold afternoon with their tea

800
00:41:19,519 --> 00:41:22,039
the side of the fire or cozy and then one

801
00:41:22,119 --> 00:41:25,320
day while they were doing that, suddenly, out of the fire,

802
00:41:25,679 --> 00:41:30,079
this sort of this intensity began and it literally took

803
00:41:30,119 --> 00:41:32,880
on the full form of just this lady in what

804
00:41:32,920 --> 00:41:36,960
they described as period dress. Now yeah, that can mean anything,

805
00:41:37,000 --> 00:41:40,239
but some kind of historical costume she was wearing, and

806
00:41:40,320 --> 00:41:43,920
she emerged from the fire. But what's really fascinating is

807
00:41:43,960 --> 00:41:47,360
she acknowledged them. She stopped and it's like she was

808
00:41:47,400 --> 00:41:49,760
seeing then they were seeing her like sitting there like

809
00:41:50,480 --> 00:41:53,440
with their tea, and she just looked at them kind

810
00:41:53,480 --> 00:41:57,119
of unconcerned, and then walked on and just vanished into

811
00:41:57,159 --> 00:42:01,239
the wall opposite. Now, the fascinating thing it was to

812
00:42:01,280 --> 00:42:04,760
talk with them, the two witnesses at the same time,

813
00:42:04,880 --> 00:42:07,679
and you just you realize that just telling you something

814
00:42:07,719 --> 00:42:10,880
that happened one afternoon, you know what I mean? Yes,

815
00:42:11,000 --> 00:42:14,519
they were disturbed. Is the wrong work, but unsettled them, yes,

816
00:42:15,119 --> 00:42:17,840
but it got them onto doing what some people do

817
00:42:17,960 --> 00:42:20,800
after that is to think why was she coming out

818
00:42:20,840 --> 00:42:24,679
of the fireplace, and they looked back at the earlier

819
00:42:24,760 --> 00:42:28,199
plans of the house and discovered that where a wall

820
00:42:28,280 --> 00:42:32,000
and a fireplace was eventually put in, that was a corridor,

821
00:42:32,519 --> 00:42:36,000
So that would have been a way through the house

822
00:42:36,280 --> 00:42:38,800
that people would have walked on. So did that lady

823
00:42:38,920 --> 00:42:41,679
once upon a time, in whatever time period it was,

824
00:42:42,360 --> 00:42:45,840
just suddenly find herself standing in a fire and two

825
00:42:45,880 --> 00:42:48,360
people saying, yeah, what does she say? That's what I

826
00:42:48,440 --> 00:42:52,119
ever find really fascinating. Did she see them as the ghosts?

827
00:42:52,440 --> 00:42:55,960
She seemed too perturbed. If she did, and then maybe

828
00:42:56,000 --> 00:42:57,800
she just thought, like a lot of us do, well,

829
00:42:58,159 --> 00:43:00,840
there's got to be some explanation and just carry it on.

830
00:43:01,360 --> 00:43:03,559
And then there's a few stories like that in the

831
00:43:03,599 --> 00:43:07,000
book where people see the ghost and the ghost is

832
00:43:07,000 --> 00:43:10,280
looking at them like it's seeing something weird. So what

833
00:43:10,440 --> 00:43:12,639
is a ghost? We might be the ghost to them,

834
00:43:12,719 --> 00:43:16,159
and this is just some tube in time and space

835
00:43:16,280 --> 00:43:20,400
that suddenly connects two different time space points together. You know,

836
00:43:20,559 --> 00:43:22,480
we're all ghosts to somebody somewhere.

837
00:43:23,599 --> 00:43:26,840
Speaker 3: That's really fascinating because when I read that, it stirred

838
00:43:26,840 --> 00:43:29,119
in my mind the memory of reading in the book

839
00:43:29,239 --> 00:43:34,559
The Vertical Plane, which is about the Donnalston messages and Ben,

840
00:43:34,599 --> 00:43:37,199
you have an interest in this area as well. And

841
00:43:37,239 --> 00:43:40,400
I have briefly alluded to the Dodalston messages in previous

842
00:43:40,440 --> 00:43:44,159
Paranormal pep Share episodes, but just to briefly go over it.

843
00:43:44,159 --> 00:43:47,639
It's about this couple in the nineteen eighties, mid nineteen eighties,

844
00:43:48,119 --> 00:43:52,000
Ken Webster and his girlfriend Debbie, and he was a

845
00:43:52,039 --> 00:43:55,639
teacher and he kind of borrowed computers early computers Acorn

846
00:43:55,960 --> 00:43:58,960
BBC Acorn computers from the school he was working at,

847
00:43:59,239 --> 00:44:01,800
and he was bringing her different computers over a period

848
00:44:01,840 --> 00:44:05,239
of a year. But they mysteriously found these messages written

849
00:44:05,280 --> 00:44:08,639
in early modern English, appearing to come from a guy

850
00:44:09,599 --> 00:44:12,159
about four hundred years early who was using some sort

851
00:44:12,159 --> 00:44:17,320
of communication and communicating through their computer, which obviously in

852
00:44:17,320 --> 00:44:19,679
those days wasn't connected to any internet, so we didn't

853
00:44:19,719 --> 00:44:21,920
know what the Internet was then. But somehow I was

854
00:44:21,960 --> 00:44:25,239
receiving messages. And in those days those computers you just

855
00:44:25,320 --> 00:44:27,679
typed in like a word document and saved it for

856
00:44:27,760 --> 00:44:31,159
a flofthy disc but they'd be extra files appearing on

857
00:44:31,199 --> 00:44:33,360
the computer with these messages.

858
00:44:33,440 --> 00:44:34,400
Speaker 1: Now, the guy who.

859
00:44:34,360 --> 00:44:38,320
Speaker 3: Claimed that he was communicating through said that he was

860
00:44:38,320 --> 00:44:41,480
from the here fifteen thirty eight or something like that,

861
00:44:41,719 --> 00:44:45,840
and he said that someone stepped out of his chimney

862
00:44:46,320 --> 00:44:49,800
in the Middle Ages with a box of lights, as

863
00:44:49,800 --> 00:44:52,039
he described it, because he had no word for a computer,

864
00:44:52,119 --> 00:44:55,079
he just called it a box of lights and instructed

865
00:44:55,159 --> 00:44:58,360
him on how to use it. Now, I don't think

866
00:44:58,480 --> 00:45:01,360
one moment we imagine a ma evil guy tapping away

867
00:45:01,519 --> 00:45:05,039
on a quirity keyboard back in the fifteen hundreds. From

868
00:45:05,079 --> 00:45:08,440
what he described in his messages, he just seemed to speak,

869
00:45:08,480 --> 00:45:11,519
and the messages formed in the air and somehow appeared

870
00:45:11,880 --> 00:45:15,800
in nineteen eighty four. But the original person that came

871
00:45:15,840 --> 00:45:19,840
from a future beyond us apparently brought this box of

872
00:45:19,920 --> 00:45:23,599
lights back to him in the fifteen hundreds. So again,

873
00:45:23,880 --> 00:45:27,159
he stepped out of a fireplace. And I wonder if

874
00:45:27,239 --> 00:45:31,199
fireplaces are portals or can be used as portals for

875
00:45:31,480 --> 00:45:37,519
spirits emerging from one portal or dimension to another. Any thoughts, Ooh,

876
00:45:37,800 --> 00:45:39,639
I mean, I mean obviously firefire.

877
00:45:39,760 --> 00:45:42,639
Speaker 1: I mean it's it's sacred, it's you know, there's so

878
00:45:42,679 --> 00:45:46,280
many rituals around it. With a fire in its right

879
00:45:46,360 --> 00:45:49,239
acts as a portal. I don't know, but that's interesting,

880
00:45:49,320 --> 00:45:51,800
isn't it to make that connection there. What I have

881
00:45:51,920 --> 00:45:55,280
discovered though, is that you know, anything can be a portal. Obviously,

882
00:45:55,480 --> 00:45:59,920
haunted houses are effectively somewhere where time and space is

883
00:46:00,159 --> 00:46:03,400
got very leaky stuff comes and goes, and not always

884
00:46:03,440 --> 00:46:05,360
the same stuff. I mean, if you look at skin Walk,

885
00:46:05,440 --> 00:46:08,280
a ranch for instance, where you know, if we believe

886
00:46:08,360 --> 00:46:10,760
even a third of what they claim comes and goes,

887
00:46:10,800 --> 00:46:13,840
there just seems to be this place that attracts beings

888
00:46:13,880 --> 00:46:16,760
of different kinds, and you hear that in houses, so

889
00:46:16,800 --> 00:46:19,599
there might be a recurring ghost, for instance, but then

890
00:46:19,679 --> 00:46:22,239
people will start to see strange creatures there, or you know,

891
00:46:22,320 --> 00:46:25,320
different people will see different things, and it's like it's

892
00:46:25,480 --> 00:46:29,159
just it's a weak point in time and space. But

893
00:46:29,239 --> 00:46:33,519
equally it can be individuals with the portals where they

894
00:46:33,559 --> 00:46:36,239
can leave a house where they thought it was haunted,

895
00:46:36,679 --> 00:46:39,360
go to a completely new house and the ghost will

896
00:46:39,360 --> 00:46:41,880
follow them. And there's a couple of cases of that

897
00:46:41,920 --> 00:46:44,239
in the book, and they see the same ghost and they, oh, no,

898
00:46:44,679 --> 00:46:46,400
I thought I got rid of it. Here it is

899
00:46:46,440 --> 00:46:49,719
again because they other portal rather than the place. And

900
00:46:49,760 --> 00:46:52,400
there's a number of cases where you will get a

901
00:46:52,519 --> 00:46:56,400
very haunted house with a lot of bad activity or

902
00:46:56,440 --> 00:47:00,360
just strange activity coming on. That family moves out, a

903
00:47:00,400 --> 00:47:03,280
new family comes in and nothing happens. That was because

904
00:47:03,320 --> 00:47:06,880
it's like they're just tuned in differently for whatever reason.

905
00:47:07,320 --> 00:47:09,559
So I think there are different things that can be

906
00:47:09,599 --> 00:47:12,480
portal's fire as a portla in its own right. That's

907
00:47:12,480 --> 00:47:16,920
an interesting idea maybe. I'm sure some ancient people would

908
00:47:16,920 --> 00:47:17,199
tell you.

909
00:47:17,280 --> 00:47:20,440
Speaker 5: So that was the case with the Enfield haunting. Apparently

910
00:47:20,480 --> 00:47:24,159
when they changed houses where the people the new people

911
00:47:24,199 --> 00:47:26,679
moved in, they got nothing, But where the girls went

912
00:47:26,719 --> 00:47:28,519
to and the mum went to, it carried on. I

913
00:47:28,559 --> 00:47:31,480
don't notice the same ghost bill or whether it was

914
00:47:31,519 --> 00:47:33,519
different ghosts, But as you say, I think the girl

915
00:47:34,000 --> 00:47:35,679
was the center of attention, and I think she was

916
00:47:35,679 --> 00:47:37,440
the portal to it happening.

917
00:47:38,440 --> 00:47:42,239
Speaker 4: Poltic guys tend to hang around to Ticu people rather

918
00:47:42,239 --> 00:47:45,400
than particular locations, you know. But it's what's interesting about

919
00:47:45,400 --> 00:47:48,320
the story is that on one level, it could be

920
00:47:48,360 --> 00:47:52,400
like the stone stone tape type ghosts, which its intends

921
00:47:52,400 --> 00:47:54,719
to signing. I like just walk ald pasts and if

922
00:47:55,119 --> 00:47:57,800
buildings change and walls are built and someone knocked down,

923
00:47:58,079 --> 00:47:59,880
it'll still continue to walk the way it did the

924
00:48:00,079 --> 00:48:02,679
for a the In other words, that's why they go

925
00:48:02,719 --> 00:48:04,400
through walls and things like that. The thing about the

926
00:48:04,400 --> 00:48:06,840
stone tape ghosts is they are literally just like an image.

927
00:48:06,840 --> 00:48:09,239
They're an image like the Roman soldiers the guy saw

928
00:48:09,280 --> 00:48:11,639
in the cell, a very famous case from York. They

929
00:48:11,639 --> 00:48:13,440
didn't they were just images. There were just like a

930
00:48:13,440 --> 00:48:17,480
three dimensional projection, a hologram. They didn't notice the man there,

931
00:48:17,480 --> 00:48:22,400
They didn't notice anything in their surroundings. Yet this person did,

932
00:48:22,440 --> 00:48:26,199
I mean, this particular image actually did acknowledge the leap

933
00:48:26,199 --> 00:48:28,159
of the people there, which indicates that's not a stone

934
00:48:28,199 --> 00:48:30,400
tape ghost, even though it share some of the properties

935
00:48:30,400 --> 00:48:31,639
of the stone tape ghosts.

936
00:48:32,280 --> 00:48:34,960
Speaker 1: Yeah, isn't that interesting? I mean, you know, I come

937
00:48:35,000 --> 00:48:37,039
to the conclusion in the book that there are many

938
00:48:37,039 --> 00:48:40,280
different causes of ghosts. I think there are time slips,

939
00:48:40,360 --> 00:48:43,280
like you say, just something replaying over and over again.

940
00:48:43,480 --> 00:48:47,039
I think there are spirits that have actually consciousness. I

941
00:48:47,079 --> 00:48:50,119
think there's also other entities that we call ghosts, but

942
00:48:50,199 --> 00:48:53,079
I think just exist on other levels of reality that

943
00:48:53,199 --> 00:48:55,440
managed to find a way through here. And some of

944
00:48:55,480 --> 00:48:59,039
them are quite scary, other seem perfectly benevolent. So yeah,

945
00:48:59,280 --> 00:49:02,480
I think there's we say a ghost, but actually there's

946
00:49:02,760 --> 00:49:05,800
multi levels to what it ghost is. And I certainly

947
00:49:05,880 --> 00:49:08,599
don't think people are always saying seeing the same course,

948
00:49:09,280 --> 00:49:11,679
and I think very often you can get different things

949
00:49:11,719 --> 00:49:14,880
coming together. So yeah, I mean when we say ghosts

950
00:49:14,880 --> 00:49:17,039
and I try to separate this out in the book,

951
00:49:17,559 --> 00:49:20,519
there's many different expressions of that, and they're not all

952
00:49:20,559 --> 00:49:23,119
scary either. And one thing I really wanted to get

953
00:49:23,159 --> 00:49:26,320
away from was to not just have it as or

954
00:49:26,360 --> 00:49:30,400
another spooky book. Yeah, some of it is unsettling, it's true,

955
00:49:30,559 --> 00:49:32,960
but a lot of it's beautiful. People that have met

956
00:49:33,000 --> 00:49:36,880
relatives or had conversations or friends who've just died. Only

957
00:49:36,920 --> 00:49:39,039
the person seeing and didn't know they just died, and

958
00:49:39,079 --> 00:49:41,639
it's like they were coming to say goodbye someone. That's

959
00:49:41,639 --> 00:49:44,719
really lovely. Some of it's funny. So you know, we've

960
00:49:44,760 --> 00:49:48,079
got stuck in the groove of all it's all dark, spooky,

961
00:49:48,239 --> 00:49:51,519
ghostly stuff, and that's not really the story. I think

962
00:49:51,559 --> 00:49:55,000
more often than not, it actually it's more mundane than that,

963
00:49:55,440 --> 00:49:58,320
or just easier than that, And that's something I really

964
00:49:58,320 --> 00:49:59,679
wanted to reflect in the book.

965
00:50:00,800 --> 00:50:03,000
Speaker 4: You know that some of these phenomena that we talk

966
00:50:03,039 --> 00:50:05,719
about are alarming, and they're worrying and frightening, and sometimes

967
00:50:05,760 --> 00:50:07,760
they can be harmful and we know that. But you

968
00:50:07,800 --> 00:50:09,920
know what, if someone I don't know how you guys

969
00:50:09,920 --> 00:50:13,719
feel about this, I predictable agree with me if someone said, well,

970
00:50:14,480 --> 00:50:16,440
we would you like to live in a world where

971
00:50:16,480 --> 00:50:18,639
this sort of weird stuff never happened and it just

972
00:50:18,639 --> 00:50:21,599
didn't exist? Because we could live in a world like that. Indeed,

973
00:50:21,599 --> 00:50:23,559
the skeptics do believe that's the world we live in.

974
00:50:24,480 --> 00:50:26,199
Speaker 5: And it'd be boring though, wouldn't they.

975
00:50:26,320 --> 00:50:28,880
Speaker 4: Yeah, if someone gave an opportunity, would you rather live

976
00:50:28,880 --> 00:50:30,639
in this world where this stuff does happen.

977
00:50:30,559 --> 00:50:32,519
Speaker 3: What's and all? Or would you live in a world

978
00:50:32,519 --> 00:50:34,800
where it doesn't? I would choose to form every time.

979
00:50:36,320 --> 00:50:38,199
Speaker 1: But that comes back to what But that comes back

980
00:50:38,199 --> 00:50:39,800
to what we were saying earlier, wasn't it, which is

981
00:50:39,800 --> 00:50:41,719
a lot of people don't want to believe that that

982
00:50:41,920 --> 00:50:44,159
is the world they live in. That is why they deny.

983
00:50:44,519 --> 00:50:46,880
As people in my family who I think really know

984
00:50:46,960 --> 00:50:48,960
there is something to it, but they don't really want

985
00:50:49,000 --> 00:50:50,480
to hear that. They don't want to hear my weird

986
00:50:50,519 --> 00:50:53,519
stuff because it unsettles them too much to think that

987
00:50:53,559 --> 00:50:55,719
it could be real. So I think that comes into

988
00:50:55,760 --> 00:50:56,400
it quite a lot.

989
00:50:56,920 --> 00:51:00,320
Speaker 4: Indeed, Yeah, I'm sorry to back again. I know you

990
00:51:00,360 --> 00:51:01,960
guys want to the other guys want to say something.

991
00:51:01,960 --> 00:51:04,199
But that ties in so much to when we did

992
00:51:04,199 --> 00:51:07,159
our little obituary to James Randy and when we when

993
00:51:07,199 --> 00:51:10,440
he died, we did a two videos about it, and

994
00:51:11,840 --> 00:51:15,199
we said that this is in some cases it could

995
00:51:15,199 --> 00:51:16,880
be subconscious in which we fool ourselves.

996
00:51:16,880 --> 00:51:18,920
Speaker 3: In the case of Randy and several other people.

997
00:51:18,920 --> 00:51:23,639
Speaker 4: I believe they are actually literally lying because they're scared.

998
00:51:23,320 --> 00:51:25,159
Speaker 3: Of what would happen to people if too many people

999
00:51:25,199 --> 00:51:26,280
start believing this stuff.

1000
00:51:27,599 --> 00:51:29,159
Speaker 4: So in other words, it's it's kind of almost a

1001
00:51:29,199 --> 00:51:31,800
parallel to the UFO cover up. I'll say, well, we

1002
00:51:31,880 --> 00:51:34,239
have to keep these things silent because they'll be social

1003
00:51:34,320 --> 00:51:36,679
chaos or the oil companies will fall, et.

1004
00:51:36,679 --> 00:51:40,639
Speaker 3: Cetera, et cetera. Yeah, did anybody ever see the ghost.

1005
00:51:40,440 --> 00:51:42,199
Speaker 1: Of James Randy?

1006
00:51:43,119 --> 00:51:45,800
Speaker 3: That'd be interesting that I was dry if he's going

1007
00:51:45,840 --> 00:51:50,199
to come back, right. Well, I think about ghosts is

1008
00:51:50,199 --> 00:51:51,920
the fact that you know, you've got like the different

1009
00:51:51,920 --> 00:51:55,559
classifications of them. You've got ones that interact with people

1010
00:51:55,639 --> 00:51:58,400
that seem to be the relatives of people, the spirits

1011
00:51:58,440 --> 00:52:01,880
of departed souls, if you like. And then you've got

1012
00:52:01,920 --> 00:52:04,199
these ones that just don't interact with anyone. They're just

1013
00:52:04,239 --> 00:52:07,599
going about their daily task, repeating actions, and are sited

1014
00:52:07,599 --> 00:52:10,480
over centuries. And then you've got other ones that seem

1015
00:52:10,559 --> 00:52:12,920
to sort of like come and go with some sort

1016
00:52:12,920 --> 00:52:16,800
of I don't know. They're stuck in in some area

1017
00:52:16,920 --> 00:52:18,840
and they don't know anyone, but they're sort of stuck.

1018
00:52:19,119 --> 00:52:21,480
But they're perceived in different ways. The man in Hong

1019
00:52:21,559 --> 00:52:25,639
Kong see saw this glowing kind of figure of light.

1020
00:52:26,039 --> 00:52:29,360
Other people see these ghosts very very clearly, except from

1021
00:52:29,360 --> 00:52:32,239
the knees down there missing, and other people see them

1022
00:52:32,280 --> 00:52:36,480
as glowing kind of orbs or something. And yet we're

1023
00:52:36,480 --> 00:52:38,519
all classifying them as ghosts.

1024
00:52:38,559 --> 00:52:39,559
Speaker 1: But I think.

1025
00:52:39,400 --> 00:52:42,719
Speaker 3: It's maybe the analogy that I can best give is

1026
00:52:43,119 --> 00:52:46,559
that if we think of images that we today access

1027
00:52:47,119 --> 00:52:49,800
and we accept that they're all on different things. So

1028
00:52:49,840 --> 00:52:53,199
for instance, some years ago, we would start off video

1029
00:52:53,239 --> 00:52:56,800
recording onto tape, and we'd have the HS tapes that

1030
00:52:56,840 --> 00:53:00,039
we'd put in our VHS machines, and you'd have to

1031
00:53:00,119 --> 00:53:02,480
us to track him because you get a cracky little

1032
00:53:02,519 --> 00:53:05,880
bit of picture at the bottom and you get this

1033
00:53:06,039 --> 00:53:08,719
drop out and tape crease, and so the image would

1034
00:53:08,719 --> 00:53:11,679
distort a little bit until it's stabilized. And then later

1035
00:53:11,760 --> 00:53:14,480
on we start to get DVDs where you could pause.

1036
00:53:14,199 --> 00:53:16,679
Speaker 1: Images or you could zoom in on images.

1037
00:53:17,039 --> 00:53:19,599
Speaker 3: And these days you've got over the Internet, you've got

1038
00:53:19,599 --> 00:53:24,440
these things called gifts, which is like graphic short animations

1039
00:53:24,440 --> 00:53:27,239
of people, short clips that replay and replay and replay.

1040
00:53:27,840 --> 00:53:30,440
And I think that you know, if you talk someone

1041
00:53:30,440 --> 00:53:32,360
from the Middle Ages, they would all say that they

1042
00:53:32,400 --> 00:53:35,800
are spirits, but they're all kind of doing different things.

1043
00:53:36,079 --> 00:53:39,800
That it's because we understand the media that's presenting those images.

1044
00:53:39,840 --> 00:53:43,840
We understand TV broadcasts, we understand DVDs and VHS tapes

1045
00:53:43,880 --> 00:53:47,519
and pixels on a computer. We can interpret them in

1046
00:53:47,599 --> 00:53:51,159
our own age of technology. And so I think that

1047
00:53:51,199 --> 00:53:53,760
what's happening is with these ghosts, we're trying and interpret

1048
00:53:53,800 --> 00:53:55,639
them and we're leave it in all those ghosts. But

1049
00:53:55,719 --> 00:53:58,039
in fact, they're all kind of different what I would

1050
00:53:58,079 --> 00:54:01,480
call different media ghosts and through on the different kind

1051
00:54:01,519 --> 00:54:05,000
of structures of reality. It's all about the leaks in reality.

1052
00:54:05,320 --> 00:54:08,280
There was a spirit guide called Seth who used to

1053
00:54:08,400 --> 00:54:12,159
channel through Jane Robbers, and he said a similar thing.

1054
00:54:12,199 --> 00:54:14,880
He never said they were leaks, but he said all

1055
00:54:15,039 --> 00:54:18,519
systems are not closed. So one reality parked next to

1056
00:54:18,559 --> 00:54:20,920
another reality next to another reality.

1057
00:54:20,960 --> 00:54:22,480
Speaker 1: You can go through them.

1058
00:54:22,480 --> 00:54:25,039
Speaker 3: That there's holes between them if you like, you know,

1059
00:54:25,440 --> 00:54:28,000
and so therefore this is why we do get leaks

1060
00:54:28,039 --> 00:54:30,519
in the machine as such, where we're seeing things that

1061
00:54:30,559 --> 00:54:33,960
shouldn't be in our reality, and vice versa. From what

1062
00:54:34,079 --> 00:54:36,880
he said, we are sometimes seen as ghosts on other

1063
00:54:37,000 --> 00:54:39,679
level of reality. Yet here we are as flesh and

1064
00:54:39,719 --> 00:54:42,880
blood creatures, but we're appearing as spirits on some other

1065
00:54:42,960 --> 00:54:46,280
level of reality. It could be the same for people

1066
00:54:46,480 --> 00:54:49,000
like having out of body experiences, which you also talk

1067
00:54:49,079 --> 00:54:49,960
about in your book.

1068
00:54:50,840 --> 00:54:53,199
Speaker 1: Yeah, and then that's as the book goes on. What

1069
00:54:53,280 --> 00:54:55,480
I try very much to do is to say, right,

1070
00:54:56,199 --> 00:55:00,119
there's this phenomenon, there's there's this look underneath it, and

1071
00:55:00,159 --> 00:55:03,360
you find they are all linked and outer body experiences

1072
00:55:03,400 --> 00:55:07,159
are happening, for instance, to so many people who've got

1073
00:55:07,199 --> 00:55:09,760
no idea even what that is till it happens to them.

1074
00:55:10,239 --> 00:55:12,920
And it's really common. I mean, i'd say it's about

1075
00:55:12,920 --> 00:55:15,960
one in ten people have had something like that. I

1076
00:55:16,039 --> 00:55:20,360
know there are certain medical causes for certain experiences. Some

1077
00:55:20,440 --> 00:55:24,159
of this you just know that can't explain it. Consciousness

1078
00:55:24,199 --> 00:55:27,559
clearly can be projected. We know about various remote viewing

1079
00:55:27,639 --> 00:55:31,800
programs that the US military is doing. Enough, we are

1080
00:55:31,880 --> 00:55:35,199
not just the flesh and blood. We have some separate existence,

1081
00:55:35,519 --> 00:55:37,880
but equally that's where it all links up with all

1082
00:55:37,920 --> 00:55:41,199
these other realms. I mean, how often all the scientists

1083
00:55:41,280 --> 00:55:45,159
tell you that that reality is multi dimensional? Well, okay,

1084
00:55:45,199 --> 00:55:48,360
what's living there? Then it is just layers and sometimes

1085
00:55:48,400 --> 00:55:52,159
they merge and what we call ghosts aliens sometimes and

1086
00:55:52,199 --> 00:55:55,880
a lot of UFO researchers now think consciousness plays a

1087
00:55:55,960 --> 00:55:58,719
much bigger role there than just nuts and bolts and

1088
00:55:58,800 --> 00:56:02,760
little gray organic b and angels, even which gets a

1089
00:56:02,760 --> 00:56:06,599
bit of an exploration without religious connotation as such, because

1090
00:56:06,639 --> 00:56:09,079
in the end, they are entities that are coming and going,

1091
00:56:09,679 --> 00:56:11,840
and I think they are all linked. And when you

1092
00:56:11,880 --> 00:56:14,480
start to see the bigger picture, and you know, hopefully

1093
00:56:14,480 --> 00:56:16,719
the book leads you to that, as you go through it,

1094
00:56:17,400 --> 00:56:20,119
you get a whole new view of what reality is

1095
00:56:20,159 --> 00:56:23,400
and you realize, okay, it isn't the a to be

1096
00:56:23,840 --> 00:56:26,960
mundanity that perhaps we thought, well, we didn't think it was,

1097
00:56:27,239 --> 00:56:29,440
but most people out there but is what they're taught.

1098
00:56:29,800 --> 00:56:33,360
And if you're taught that over and over again, you're

1099
00:56:33,360 --> 00:56:35,719
not going to ever sort of come into contact with

1100
00:56:35,760 --> 00:56:39,039
it unless something happens to you or somebody you know

1101
00:56:39,119 --> 00:56:41,559
and you trust and love says it happened to them,

1102
00:56:41,599 --> 00:56:44,880
And that's often when the facade begins to crumble away.

1103
00:56:46,079 --> 00:56:51,480
Speaker 5: Mandy. If we take the idea that sometimes we don't

1104
00:56:51,519 --> 00:56:53,559
know who the ghost is, so people, let's say in

1105
00:56:53,599 --> 00:56:56,239
the modern times now, come across and they see a

1106
00:56:56,280 --> 00:56:59,719
ghost like in a vintage outfit with it's Victorian Middle

1107
00:56:59,760 --> 00:57:02,800
Ages whatever, and we don't know whether we're seeing the

1108
00:57:02,840 --> 00:57:06,440
ghost or they're seeing us as ghosts. We're seeing them

1109
00:57:06,440 --> 00:57:09,880
in vintage clothing, presumably they will be seeing us in

1110
00:57:10,039 --> 00:57:12,440
our modern clothing, but to us it would be kind

1111
00:57:12,440 --> 00:57:16,400
of current clothing. That would kind of indicate that if

1112
00:57:16,440 --> 00:57:20,480
that was the case, shouldn't there be cases where we're

1113
00:57:20,480 --> 00:57:23,360
the ghosts of people in the future, And shouldn't there

1114
00:57:23,360 --> 00:57:26,760
be people seeing people in futuristic clothing and they're looking

1115
00:57:26,760 --> 00:57:28,719
back on us in the same way that we're looking

1116
00:57:28,719 --> 00:57:31,639
back at medieval people and thinking that we've got old

1117
00:57:31,639 --> 00:57:34,679
fashioned clothing. So the question is have you encountered that

1118
00:57:34,760 --> 00:57:37,440
at all? Or could it be the case that when

1119
00:57:37,480 --> 00:57:40,599
people are seeing aliens they're actually seeing some version of

1120
00:57:40,599 --> 00:57:41,119
the future.

1121
00:57:41,719 --> 00:57:43,119
Speaker 1: I was just going to say that, because I mean

1122
00:57:43,159 --> 00:57:45,440
a lot of people now think that maybe not all,

1123
00:57:45,480 --> 00:57:49,159
but some UFO encounters and the beings that they meet

1124
00:57:49,320 --> 00:57:52,400
are actually us from the future, or at least beings

1125
00:57:52,400 --> 00:57:55,159
from the future, So that may well be already happening

1126
00:57:55,320 --> 00:57:57,119
now when you raise a really good point there though,

1127
00:57:57,159 --> 00:58:00,840
as well, which is that why aren't ghosts snakes And

1128
00:58:00,880 --> 00:58:03,079
a number of people have raised it, and I talk

1129
00:58:03,119 --> 00:58:05,440
about this in the book. Why is it that they

1130
00:58:05,480 --> 00:58:07,920
tend to even though they're in the spirit world, they

1131
00:58:08,000 --> 00:58:11,440
retain the clothes that you know they had from those times.

1132
00:58:11,480 --> 00:58:13,760
And actually, I think there's a reason for that, and

1133
00:58:13,880 --> 00:58:15,960
it kind of goes back a bit to stone tape

1134
00:58:16,000 --> 00:58:19,599
theory that whereas I think we psychically imprint on things,

1135
00:58:20,239 --> 00:58:22,800
anybody can you can see dowsers do this at ours

1136
00:58:22,840 --> 00:58:25,639
that can create an energy point that other people that

1137
00:58:25,760 --> 00:58:27,679
never saw them do it can come in and find

1138
00:58:28,159 --> 00:58:32,840
it's like intent. Imprinting of the mind creates something that

1139
00:58:33,280 --> 00:58:38,000
bonds together, and people will often bond closely with things

1140
00:58:38,039 --> 00:58:42,079
and ghosts are often coming back attached, and again we're

1141
00:58:42,079 --> 00:58:44,800
back to that idea of portals, either to a place

1142
00:58:44,880 --> 00:58:47,719
that was once special to them or an object, and

1143
00:58:47,800 --> 00:58:50,760
sometimes objects can often be linked to a ghost, even

1144
00:58:50,800 --> 00:58:54,320
though the objects then be moved out of its original place.

1145
00:58:54,400 --> 00:58:57,119
And there's an example in the Book of the Bed

1146
00:58:57,639 --> 00:59:01,679
where the boy's grandfather dad died, and he died in

1147
00:59:01,679 --> 00:59:03,519
that bed, and they thought, well, we don't want to

1148
00:59:03,559 --> 00:59:06,519
waste the bed, and they put the bed into the

1149
00:59:06,559 --> 00:59:08,800
boys room as an extra bed for his friends to

1150
00:59:08,880 --> 00:59:12,960
lie in, and he was so terrified when just a

1151
00:59:12,960 --> 00:59:15,119
few days later he actually saw the image of his

1152
00:59:15,239 --> 00:59:19,519
dead grandfather lying on the bed. And then his mother

1153
00:59:19,599 --> 00:59:22,239
came in and she screamed because she saw exactly the

1154
00:59:22,280 --> 00:59:25,119
same thing. So, in other words, whether that was just

1155
00:59:25,159 --> 00:59:29,239
a visual apparition, some kind of auric residue, or an

1156
00:59:29,280 --> 00:59:32,199
actual spirit, we don't know. But it was attached to

1157
00:59:32,280 --> 00:59:35,639
that bed, and they moved it out and that form

1158
00:59:35,760 --> 00:59:39,239
was not seen in there again, So these are interesting things.

1159
00:59:39,280 --> 00:59:43,199
So I think the spirits and the clothes I'm imagining

1160
00:59:43,320 --> 00:59:46,320
is because in the end we imprint on those clothes,

1161
00:59:46,679 --> 00:59:49,960
so you see not just the spirit in a time

1162
00:59:50,039 --> 00:59:52,719
slip scenario. Of course, well, you're just seeing through time.

1163
00:59:52,760 --> 00:59:55,239
But if it is a conscious spirit that seems to

1164
00:59:55,280 --> 00:59:58,519
acknowledge people still you see the clothes, and I think

1165
00:59:58,519 --> 01:00:01,239
it's because there is an attached there. So I think

1166
01:00:01,320 --> 01:00:03,760
that says a lot about the psychic world and the

1167
01:00:03,800 --> 01:00:07,719
material world, that in the end they bond together in

1168
01:00:07,760 --> 01:00:08,239
some way.

1169
01:00:08,880 --> 01:00:10,639
Speaker 5: There's something else I could kind of add to that.

1170
01:00:10,800 --> 01:00:14,920
In the Matrix movie, Morpheus talks about the residual self

1171
01:00:16,000 --> 01:00:18,320
in terms of kind of like a holographic projective projection

1172
01:00:18,360 --> 01:00:22,760
of the residual self. In essence, when people see kind

1173
01:00:22,800 --> 01:00:25,360
of like spirit orbs. I believe that to be the

1174
01:00:25,480 --> 01:00:29,320
essence of the soul because in our human form, with

1175
01:00:29,480 --> 01:00:32,760
two eyes, two ears, mouth, fingers, everything that we've got

1176
01:00:32,800 --> 01:00:37,920
biologically is because we need it physically on this physical Earth. However,

1177
01:00:37,960 --> 01:00:41,079
when your soul goes over to spirit world and whatever

1178
01:00:41,159 --> 01:00:44,800
that may be, you don't really need eyes or hair,

1179
01:00:45,000 --> 01:00:48,159
or ears or fingers or fingernails or toes or heart

1180
01:00:48,280 --> 01:00:50,519
or lungs. You don't need those things. Those are only

1181
01:00:51,000 --> 01:00:53,840
needed for living on planet Earth. So I think when

1182
01:00:53,880 --> 01:00:59,639
a soul is projecting themselves for earthly humans to see

1183
01:00:59,800 --> 01:01:03,239
in ghost form, they are projecting a version of their

1184
01:01:03,639 --> 01:01:08,039
former selves in a holographic reality, so the person viewing

1185
01:01:08,039 --> 01:01:10,159
it has some kind of reference to what they're seeing,

1186
01:01:10,400 --> 01:01:13,159
because if they show themselves in their purest form, I

1187
01:01:13,199 --> 01:01:15,719
think it literally would just be orbs. And I think

1188
01:01:15,840 --> 01:01:19,960
maybe some orbs don't project the full human form because

1189
01:01:20,000 --> 01:01:22,400
either they can't be bothered, or they don't want to,

1190
01:01:22,599 --> 01:01:25,239
or they're just quite happy being in their orb form

1191
01:01:25,440 --> 01:01:30,519
without necessarily a holographic manifestation. I don't know if you well, I.

1192
01:01:30,519 --> 01:01:32,760
Speaker 1: Mean, what's interesting there is? I mean, and I think

1193
01:01:32,920 --> 01:01:36,320
you're probably right on some occasions. That makes the presumption

1194
01:01:36,480 --> 01:01:40,280
that the spirit the apparition is projecting that form for us,

1195
01:01:40,599 --> 01:01:44,559
whereas it might well be that we shape that energy

1196
01:01:44,599 --> 01:01:47,480
into the form we rideless and that it's coming from

1197
01:01:47,559 --> 01:01:50,119
that way, And there is a lot of evidence of that,

1198
01:01:50,199 --> 01:01:53,400
and some people are found also with UFOs, and some

1199
01:01:53,440 --> 01:01:56,440
people think they are actually beings in their own right,

1200
01:01:56,719 --> 01:01:59,719
that it will shape into what people expect to see,

1201
01:02:00,079 --> 01:02:02,639
and not everybody in the same place is the same thing,

1202
01:02:03,239 --> 01:02:06,079
So I think we also might be shaping it. And

1203
01:02:06,119 --> 01:02:08,480
if there is a spirit and that orb or whatever,

1204
01:02:08,559 --> 01:02:13,320
it's the purest form. But you create what you know,

1205
01:02:13,960 --> 01:02:16,599
what you feel on some psychic level, you know that

1206
01:02:16,719 --> 01:02:21,000
represented originally to you, rather than them just you know,

1207
01:02:21,079 --> 01:02:24,960
projecting it. So yeah, it's really the whole area is

1208
01:02:25,000 --> 01:02:27,719
so fascinating, and that's why I think this is just

1209
01:02:27,760 --> 01:02:30,199
such a good thing to talk about, and people don't

1210
01:02:30,239 --> 01:02:32,800
talk about it. Another thing that's kind of related to

1211
01:02:32,840 --> 01:02:35,760
that is when you look at the amount of ghosts

1212
01:02:35,760 --> 01:02:39,000
that gets seen, the vast majority of them are either

1213
01:02:39,400 --> 01:02:45,280
from people who recently passed or Victorian drest ghosts. We

1214
01:02:45,360 --> 01:02:48,039
all know people they don't know what a time period

1215
01:02:48,199 --> 01:02:50,599
is nine times out of ten, so that could mean

1216
01:02:50,639 --> 01:02:53,119
anything over a period of several hundred years. But it

1217
01:02:53,159 --> 01:02:56,920
is true, although you do get them, you get far

1218
01:02:57,039 --> 01:03:00,159
less a Roman ghosts. There are some Roman stores or

1219
01:03:00,199 --> 01:03:03,360
is in the movement, they're much less, much less, far

1220
01:03:03,440 --> 01:03:07,280
less Saxons or tribal people from around the world. It's funny.

1221
01:03:07,320 --> 01:03:10,360
It tends to be the fact that a ghost, in

1222
01:03:10,440 --> 01:03:12,599
terms of a spirit, it kind of runs out of

1223
01:03:12,719 --> 01:03:15,400
energy in the end. And again with stone tape theory,

1224
01:03:15,480 --> 01:03:19,800
maybe like the electromagnetism, whatever it is that maintains the

1225
01:03:19,840 --> 01:03:23,480
apparition to us, it kind of winds down after a while,

1226
01:03:23,800 --> 01:03:27,440
but somebody or something or the disturbance of something and

1227
01:03:27,960 --> 01:03:31,519
re energize the battery power, and suddenly it comes back

1228
01:03:31,559 --> 01:03:33,760
for a brief while. But it is interesting ghosts do

1229
01:03:33,920 --> 01:03:36,599
fade out, it would seem in the due course.

1230
01:03:36,880 --> 01:03:40,199
Speaker 5: I'll und knowing why this atrophy exists, because it is

1231
01:03:40,239 --> 01:03:43,920
a valid question. It comes from skeptics. Sometimes skeptics do

1232
01:03:44,000 --> 01:03:46,480
have a good point. Why are there no caveman ghosts?

1233
01:03:46,519 --> 01:03:50,559
Why are they're no Bronze age ghosts? And the atrophy,

1234
01:03:50,679 --> 01:03:53,199
the energetic atrophy is the only explanation I can think

1235
01:03:53,239 --> 01:03:53,679
of that.

1236
01:03:53,719 --> 01:03:56,880
Speaker 1: Yeah, it makes a lot of sense. Yeah.

1237
01:03:56,880 --> 01:03:59,320
Speaker 4: And on the subject of time travel, it's interesting of

1238
01:03:59,400 --> 01:04:02,559
humans from the I mean, this is quite a It

1239
01:04:02,639 --> 01:04:05,360
is a fashional idea in uthology right now. There are

1240
01:04:05,360 --> 01:04:08,480
some problems with it though, so for example, when it

1241
01:04:08,480 --> 01:04:10,800
comes to time travel, it is actually possible to travel

1242
01:04:10,800 --> 01:04:14,480
into the future you under Einstein's.

1243
01:04:13,920 --> 01:04:15,159
Speaker 3: Laws of special relativity.

1244
01:04:15,199 --> 01:04:17,199
Speaker 4: There's even a man who's done it, the guy called

1245
01:04:17,280 --> 01:04:22,039
Valerie Polyakakoff Vary Polycof. He was actually an astronaut on

1246
01:04:22,079 --> 01:04:24,920
the Mere space station. He spent thirteen months and he

1247
01:04:24,960 --> 01:04:27,639
actually traveled one point seven milliseconds in the future, because

1248
01:04:27,639 --> 01:04:29,559
you've spent he was going around the Earth at seventeen

1249
01:04:29,599 --> 01:04:32,039
thousand miles an hour all that time. If you go fast,

1250
01:04:32,039 --> 01:04:34,880
you're going into the future. If you could have faster spacecraft,

1251
01:04:34,920 --> 01:04:37,559
you'll go further into the future. The problem is when

1252
01:04:37,559 --> 01:04:39,840
it comes to going back, going back to the past.

1253
01:04:40,480 --> 01:04:46,519
Now personally, the problem is that's actually not really possible

1254
01:04:46,559 --> 01:04:50,079
because where are you actually going to And once you

1255
01:04:50,159 --> 01:04:51,880
get once you get into the realms of going to

1256
01:04:51,880 --> 01:04:54,480
the past, you get time travel paradoxes and things like that.

1257
01:04:55,239 --> 01:04:58,840
So you see these humans from the future and can't

1258
01:05:00,079 --> 01:05:02,519
where are they coming from? In other words, they're coming

1259
01:05:02,519 --> 01:05:05,559
from a place that doesn't exist, because you know, we

1260
01:05:05,559 --> 01:05:09,360
could easily, if we could easily become like extinct or something,

1261
01:05:09,440 --> 01:05:11,599
and we would never become these things from the future.

1262
01:05:11,800 --> 01:05:12,639
Speaker 3: Indeed, we could.

1263
01:05:12,480 --> 01:05:15,880
Speaker 4: Even do something while they're visiting us that that makes

1264
01:05:15,920 --> 01:05:18,519
us become extinct, and therefore they wouldn't exist. So you

1265
01:05:18,519 --> 01:05:21,639
get this paradox, You get this loop of paradox. So

1266
01:05:21,679 --> 01:05:22,800
how could they exist.

1267
01:05:22,599 --> 01:05:23,719
Speaker 3: If we stop them existing?

1268
01:05:23,760 --> 01:05:24,480
Speaker 1: Things like that.

1269
01:05:24,719 --> 01:05:26,000
Speaker 3: There's many many other examples.

1270
01:05:26,079 --> 01:05:26,480
Speaker 5: I could give.

1271
01:05:27,119 --> 01:05:29,639
Speaker 1: One way around, though, is to say that every toe

1272
01:05:29,760 --> 01:05:31,840
you just say you can travel in time, let's say

1273
01:05:31,840 --> 01:05:34,639
you can. Every time you do it, you're actually creating

1274
01:05:34,719 --> 01:05:39,039
yet another parallel reality. You're basically splitting off into multi

1275
01:05:39,039 --> 01:05:42,320
dimension and a number of scientists have discussed that, which

1276
01:05:42,360 --> 01:05:46,280
means that there is no one direction in time. Yes,

1277
01:05:46,360 --> 01:05:48,840
those beings might have come from one of those paths,

1278
01:05:48,840 --> 01:05:52,039
but the very act of moving back, they've come out

1279
01:05:52,079 --> 01:05:54,199
of that path, They've created a whole new one. They

1280
01:05:54,239 --> 01:05:57,280
probably can never go back to that original path. But

1281
01:05:57,360 --> 01:06:01,480
I mean, obviously this is all speculation, but it would

1282
01:06:01,480 --> 01:06:03,559
explain so much what makes sense. That will make more

1283
01:06:03,599 --> 01:06:06,960
sense how it is us rather than literally being travel, well,

1284
01:06:07,039 --> 01:06:09,440
it was a time travel and that's kind of loaded,

1285
01:06:09,519 --> 01:06:11,280
you know what I mean. I think if you just

1286
01:06:11,320 --> 01:06:14,440
say that the universe is torn to bits basically, and

1287
01:06:14,480 --> 01:06:16,559
it's full of holes and things don't run from A

1288
01:06:16,679 --> 01:06:19,320
to be, you go, all right, that makes so much sense.

1289
01:06:19,400 --> 01:06:21,960
You know, we're trying to make sense of it again,

1290
01:06:22,000 --> 01:06:24,039
in that A to B they came from there to hear.

1291
01:06:24,280 --> 01:06:26,239
I don't think it works like that. I think it

1292
01:06:26,320 --> 01:06:29,840
is so tangled and multi layered and mobia stripped black.

1293
01:06:30,280 --> 01:06:33,039
I just think that we as yet we can't fully

1294
01:06:33,079 --> 01:06:35,519
comprehend it. So it isn't going to fully make sense

1295
01:06:35,519 --> 01:06:39,119
to us, but maybe to somebody out there somewhere it does,

1296
01:06:39,199 --> 01:06:42,000
but I don't think we're at that level of understanding it.

1297
01:06:42,719 --> 01:06:45,079
Speaker 4: Yeah, yeah, that would actually sold a lot of those

1298
01:06:45,119 --> 01:06:46,719
paradoxes if we if accept it.

1299
01:06:46,719 --> 01:06:49,400
Speaker 3: It's like it's more parallel universe than literal try and travel.

1300
01:06:49,519 --> 01:06:50,159
Speaker 1: Yeah.

1301
01:06:50,320 --> 01:06:54,360
Speaker 5: I mean even a load of channels, including Bishah, probably

1302
01:06:54,360 --> 01:06:57,440
loads of others as well, talk about many, many, many

1303
01:06:57,480 --> 01:07:02,840
different almost infinite kind of dimensions and realities and things

1304
01:07:02,880 --> 01:07:05,519
going on all at the same time, and our consciousnesses

1305
01:07:05,519 --> 01:07:08,039
are really kind of just choosing which reality we wish

1306
01:07:08,039 --> 01:07:10,199
to experience. There's quite a few This.

1307
01:07:10,360 --> 01:07:12,519
Speaker 4: Was fair for example in fiction, for example the Batch

1308
01:07:12,559 --> 01:07:15,360
of the Future movie where the Martin McFly character he

1309
01:07:15,440 --> 01:07:17,960
goes back into the past when his parents are children,

1310
01:07:18,000 --> 01:07:21,400
and it's this it's an interesting, interesting idea. But then

1311
01:07:21,639 --> 01:07:23,840
he never does go back to the future. He can't

1312
01:07:23,880 --> 01:07:26,079
go back to the future. What he does is he

1313
01:07:26,119 --> 01:07:28,679
goes to a completely different world where his father is

1314
01:07:28,719 --> 01:07:31,199
a very he's because he takes on the school bully

1315
01:07:31,239 --> 01:07:34,079
when he's a kid. He's a strong and more confident man,

1316
01:07:34,159 --> 01:07:36,639
so he's more successful. He used to he was a

1317
01:07:36,679 --> 01:07:40,320
struggling writer, but in this new world he's a successful novelist.

1318
01:07:41,360 --> 01:07:43,159
Speaker 1: I mean, if we're going to go to the Back

1319
01:07:43,199 --> 01:07:45,039
of the Future film for we could be here, all

1320
01:07:45,119 --> 01:07:48,920
they do make the slightest sense. It doesn't really add up.

1321
01:07:48,920 --> 01:07:51,360
I tellly one book that really explains it well though,

1322
01:07:51,400 --> 01:07:52,480
how it could work.

1323
01:07:52,639 --> 01:07:53,320
Speaker 5: That it is.

1324
01:07:53,519 --> 01:07:56,559
Speaker 1: And I don't generally like sequels written by other people,

1325
01:07:56,639 --> 01:08:00,599
but okay, Stephen Baxter, well known sci fi right, wrote

1326
01:08:00,599 --> 01:08:03,519
a sequel to H. G. Wells is The Time Machine,

1327
01:08:03,519 --> 01:08:07,119
and it's called The Time Ships, and I really recommend it.

1328
01:08:07,119 --> 01:08:09,119
It's brilliant and I actually think it's better than the

1329
01:08:09,159 --> 01:08:11,679
original book. And it gets into this, every time you

1330
01:08:11,760 --> 01:08:16,159
shift in time, you're just creating a whole new history basically,

1331
01:08:16,239 --> 01:08:19,039
and they realized they can't actually ever get back to

1332
01:08:19,079 --> 01:08:21,479
the first point and they started from because of the

1333
01:08:21,479 --> 01:08:24,359
minute you do that you've already changed. And it explores

1334
01:08:24,399 --> 01:08:27,319
it really well. Back to the Future. I love the films.

1335
01:08:27,359 --> 01:08:30,640
I really think they're fantastic, But actually there's so many

1336
01:08:30,680 --> 01:08:33,479
things that, even in the time paradox world, really make

1337
01:08:33,600 --> 01:08:36,159
no sense at all. But hey, isn't it fun? I

1338
01:08:36,920 --> 01:08:38,239
mean hate she wells himself as well.

1339
01:08:38,920 --> 01:08:40,960
Speaker 4: It was a very sinister figure, I think, you know,

1340
01:08:41,000 --> 01:08:43,800
but he was still very clever, and so I'll be nxorry.

1341
01:08:43,840 --> 01:08:46,239
I did read The Time Machines quite short and novella,

1342
01:08:46,359 --> 01:08:47,359
so i'd be interested.

1343
01:08:47,079 --> 01:08:50,800
Speaker 1: To do Yeah, read back to the sequels. It's really good.

1344
01:08:52,399 --> 01:08:57,119
Speaker 3: We got fifteen minutes before we close the show, so

1345
01:08:57,920 --> 01:08:59,680
it would be nice if we talked a little bit

1346
01:08:59,720 --> 01:09:03,640
about the UFO side of things that you also cover

1347
01:09:03,880 --> 01:09:06,760
in your book. And I presume that you've interviewed lots

1348
01:09:06,800 --> 01:09:09,760
of people or they quietly had a word in your ear.

1349
01:09:10,079 --> 01:09:14,399
Is that I've seen something called met something and standing

1350
01:09:14,560 --> 01:09:17,960
cases of UFOs or even beings that might be associated

1351
01:09:17,960 --> 01:09:20,560
with them for you were andy, Yeah.

1352
01:09:20,439 --> 01:09:22,960
Speaker 1: I mean so one of the points the book is

1353
01:09:23,039 --> 01:09:25,720
making is I'm not saying these are the biggest, best,

1354
01:09:25,720 --> 01:09:28,880
most famous cases. I'm putting all the sides saying this

1355
01:09:28,920 --> 01:09:32,239
is what's happening to normal people all the time. And

1356
01:09:32,279 --> 01:09:35,239
in a way, it's that mundane repetition of I saw

1357
01:09:35,319 --> 01:09:37,720
this that happened to me that becomes important. As a

1358
01:09:37,760 --> 01:09:40,880
book goes on, you realize, okay, shit, this really this

1359
01:09:41,000 --> 01:09:43,760
means something. It doesn't have to be a big famous case.

1360
01:09:43,800 --> 01:09:46,960
This is happening all the time somewhere to somebody. And

1361
01:09:47,079 --> 01:09:50,359
I've met two people that said, for instance, they witnessed

1362
01:09:50,359 --> 01:09:53,600
the UFOs coming up from beneath the sea. And one was,

1363
01:09:53,800 --> 01:09:56,520
and this was while it was still being active, was

1364
01:09:56,560 --> 01:10:00,600
at Dungeons Nuclear Power Station, and they said they were

1365
01:10:00,680 --> 01:10:03,960
all aware that something was out there basically monitoring what

1366
01:10:03,960 --> 01:10:06,600
they were doing. They were all ordered not to say

1367
01:10:06,640 --> 01:10:09,760
anything about it, of course, And funnily enough, I then

1368
01:10:09,800 --> 01:10:13,840
completely independently met somebody else whose husband had in that

1369
01:10:13,920 --> 01:10:17,640
same area around Kent, had also witnessed things coming up

1370
01:10:17,640 --> 01:10:19,920
from beneath the sea. And of course now that it

1371
01:10:20,039 --> 01:10:23,279
is now a big topic of conversations USOS, you know,

1372
01:10:23,439 --> 01:10:25,319
stuff's going in and out in the sea as much

1373
01:10:25,319 --> 01:10:29,119
as it is going up into outer space, so you

1374
01:10:29,279 --> 01:10:31,560
like things like that going on. And then you've got

1375
01:10:31,720 --> 01:10:35,640
classic cases of dancing objects and things doing things that

1376
01:10:35,960 --> 01:10:39,039
you know, as far as we know, nobody ever could

1377
01:10:39,079 --> 01:10:42,479
have done when this happened. Some of these go back

1378
01:10:42,520 --> 01:10:46,560
several decades, some are more contemporary. But again I've also

1379
01:10:46,640 --> 01:10:49,760
met people who were present in the military in air

1380
01:10:49,800 --> 01:10:53,039
traffic control rooms, who all said they were all present.

1381
01:10:53,359 --> 01:10:56,520
It's like the classic Close Encounters of the third kind

1382
01:10:56,600 --> 01:10:59,880
scene where the guys reporting the UFO you see them

1383
01:10:59,880 --> 01:11:02,640
all around the radar images and all that, and then

1384
01:11:02,640 --> 01:11:05,479
they say do you want to officially report that? And

1385
01:11:05,520 --> 01:11:08,560
he goes silent and says no, I don't wish to

1386
01:11:08,600 --> 01:11:12,119
report a UFO. So I've heard that from real life,

1387
01:11:12,159 --> 01:11:15,920
but with another twist, which is often they did report them.

1388
01:11:16,319 --> 01:11:19,159
The pilots would say yes, I've seen this incredible thing

1389
01:11:19,399 --> 01:11:21,680
and they but then all taken aside and said, you

1390
01:11:21,720 --> 01:11:25,199
will never speak to anyone about this. This does not

1391
01:11:25,239 --> 01:11:28,960
go in any record book. It's not recorded. This didn't happen,

1392
01:11:29,000 --> 01:11:31,720
did it. And I've heard that from many people. So

1393
01:11:31,920 --> 01:11:35,199
intimidation and cover up as we know, but it's interesting

1394
01:11:35,279 --> 01:11:37,920
to hear it first hand. Goes back a long way.

1395
01:11:38,119 --> 01:11:40,279
And then of course, you know, as people retire and

1396
01:11:40,520 --> 01:11:42,960
life goes on, they think, hey, what's the problem I'm

1397
01:11:42,960 --> 01:11:45,680
going to tell people? But I think there's a lot

1398
01:11:45,720 --> 01:11:47,760
more of that than we have known for a very

1399
01:11:47,800 --> 01:11:51,239
long time, and it's now blindingly obvious there's a huge

1400
01:11:51,279 --> 01:11:54,199
cover up. Whatever the truth that the whole UAP thing

1401
01:11:54,359 --> 01:11:57,520
is but yeah, so many people just see them in

1402
01:11:57,560 --> 01:12:01,520
the balls of light. Now, as you mentioned early with orbs,

1403
01:12:01,520 --> 01:12:04,000
are they spirits? Is it alien? What is it? And

1404
01:12:04,039 --> 01:12:07,720
I've seen the balls of light myself over cross circles

1405
01:12:08,560 --> 01:12:11,560
and you just go, it's all related somewhere down the line.

1406
01:12:12,039 --> 01:12:13,840
And when you look at the work of people like

1407
01:12:13,920 --> 01:12:18,319
Nick Hayes, who gave a really interesting talker the glacesterbris

1408
01:12:18,439 --> 01:12:21,720
and POSM a few weeks ago, biological UFOs, some of

1409
01:12:21,760 --> 01:12:24,720
this stuff up there, I think they are life forms

1410
01:12:24,760 --> 01:12:27,479
in their own right. They're not just to craft housing

1411
01:12:27,560 --> 01:12:30,399
something else. The stuff coming and going all the time

1412
01:12:30,560 --> 01:12:33,880
that we're trying to label with these really easy labels. Now,

1413
01:12:33,920 --> 01:12:36,359
I don't think it's like that. And a lot of

1414
01:12:36,359 --> 01:12:40,079
people have been looking infrared images and discovering the stuff

1415
01:12:40,159 --> 01:12:43,439
up there all the time basically, and it's shifting and

1416
01:12:43,479 --> 01:12:46,319
it's moving. And I think if we actually could see

1417
01:12:46,359 --> 01:12:48,560
what was above our heads all the time, yeah, I

1418
01:12:48,560 --> 01:12:51,520
think half the population probably would go completely mental.

1419
01:12:51,680 --> 01:12:54,760
Speaker 5: But and the is have you heard of the history

1420
01:12:54,800 --> 01:12:55,520
of night vision.

1421
01:12:57,319 --> 01:12:59,159
Speaker 1: I've heard of it. I'm no expert on it.

1422
01:12:59,239 --> 01:13:01,760
Speaker 5: Oh this is this is mentor I swear this is.

1423
01:13:01,800 --> 01:13:04,600
You could look into this. So night vision has been

1424
01:13:04,680 --> 01:13:07,880
kind of like they started actually looking at it in

1425
01:13:07,880 --> 01:13:10,920
the early nineteen hundred to believe it or not even

1426
01:13:10,960 --> 01:13:14,319
I think during the second First World War, but certainly

1427
01:13:14,319 --> 01:13:16,399
in the Second World War night vision was a thing.

1428
01:13:16,560 --> 01:13:18,600
The Germans had it, I believe their allies had it

1429
01:13:18,640 --> 01:13:23,560
as well, huge great, massive scopes on rifles. Here's where

1430
01:13:23,560 --> 01:13:27,079
it gets paranormal. In the Vietnam War they were experimenting

1431
01:13:27,199 --> 01:13:30,640
the US side were experimenting with different types of night

1432
01:13:30,720 --> 01:13:33,960
vision and the colors used and how they were used.

1433
01:13:34,680 --> 01:13:37,199
So they were looking at night vision in red, in green,

1434
01:13:37,439 --> 01:13:41,399
and blue and yellow. They kind of settled on green.

1435
01:13:41,640 --> 01:13:45,680
Here's the weird thing. Helicopter gunship pilots were using red

1436
01:13:45,920 --> 01:13:48,720
night vision and they were seeing and I'm not making

1437
01:13:48,760 --> 01:13:54,319
this up, demons with big flapping flying wings flying around everywhere.

1438
01:13:54,319 --> 01:13:56,880
And they were unloading and they weren't high. They weren't

1439
01:13:56,880 --> 01:13:59,279
on LSD or cocaine or heroin or anything like that,

1440
01:13:59,279 --> 01:14:02,319
because drugs were quite prolific in the Vietnam War. But

1441
01:14:03,239 --> 01:14:05,159
and you can you can look this one up. And

1442
01:14:04,840 --> 01:14:08,880
they were unloading kind of miniguns on things that weren't there.

1443
01:14:09,319 --> 01:14:11,760
They could see it with the red night vision, nobody

1444
01:14:11,800 --> 01:14:14,720
else could see it. So they switched to green, which

1445
01:14:14,760 --> 01:14:17,159
is what we use at the moment, and they found

1446
01:14:17,159 --> 01:14:20,840
that the demons disappeared, the flying demons disappeared, but what

1447
01:14:21,000 --> 01:14:24,600
took their place was weird UFO type things in the sky,

1448
01:14:25,000 --> 01:14:29,079
kind of like little objects that shouldn't be there. And

1449
01:14:29,119 --> 01:14:31,720
they kind of like came as a conclusion that actually

1450
01:14:31,920 --> 01:14:34,319
the UFOs and the little lights in the sky are

1451
01:14:34,359 --> 01:14:37,680
less of a problem than big flapping demons with red.

1452
01:14:37,840 --> 01:14:41,560
Because the thing is, with night vision, you would think

1453
01:14:41,600 --> 01:14:45,399
that red would be the logical color to use. And

1454
01:14:45,439 --> 01:14:48,119
the reason for that is that in the army, and

1455
01:14:48,159 --> 01:14:50,520
I was, I was in cadets many many many years ago,

1456
01:14:50,760 --> 01:14:53,680
you would use a red torch because it's less harsh

1457
01:14:53,920 --> 01:14:56,560
on your night vision. It preserves your night vision. So

1458
01:14:56,600 --> 01:14:58,760
if you see a flash of red light or so

1459
01:14:58,840 --> 01:15:01,119
much times of red light, your eyes kind of just

1460
01:15:01,359 --> 01:15:04,279
very very quickly and easily to get back into kind

1461
01:15:04,279 --> 01:15:07,119
of like the darkness. Whereas any other color someone flashes

1462
01:15:07,159 --> 01:15:09,680
in white or yellow or green or blue light in

1463
01:15:09,720 --> 01:15:11,560
your eyes, it's dazzling and it's going to take your

1464
01:15:11,560 --> 01:15:14,760
pupils a lot longer to kind of adjust to the darkness,

1465
01:15:14,840 --> 01:15:18,079
whereas red doesn't do it. It's about preserving your night vision.

1466
01:15:18,319 --> 01:15:22,359
So night vision scopes should be red, but they're not.

1467
01:15:22,439 --> 01:15:24,039
They're green. And this is the reason.

1468
01:15:24,800 --> 01:15:27,640
Speaker 1: Well, yes, you don't want too many people seeing demons,

1469
01:15:27,640 --> 01:15:29,399
do you, so I can see why they're switched.

1470
01:15:29,680 --> 01:15:32,600
Speaker 5: Yeah. Yeah, there's articles on it. I mean, it sounds

1471
01:15:32,640 --> 01:15:34,560
bizarre and anyone can have a look into it. There's

1472
01:15:34,640 --> 01:15:36,760
articles on it, and this is what they found. They

1473
01:15:36,880 --> 01:15:41,399
found what they described as demons flying around. It's it's

1474
01:15:41,439 --> 01:15:42,039
just bizarre.

1475
01:15:42,640 --> 01:15:44,720
Speaker 4: That's very odd. I mean, I hadn't heard that one before.

1476
01:15:45,000 --> 01:15:47,159
And I mean it's almost as if there's some kind

1477
01:15:47,199 --> 01:15:50,960
of color filter on our perception where we see different

1478
01:15:51,000 --> 01:15:53,359
things depending on what color was seeing there, because obviously

1479
01:15:53,560 --> 01:15:56,920
the sensor itself is using the same wavelengths regardless of

1480
01:15:56,960 --> 01:16:01,840
whether it's green already in the display. So it's all

1481
01:16:02,119 --> 01:16:04,439
of the different colors we look at them through make

1482
01:16:04,560 --> 01:16:06,439
us see different elements of reality.

1483
01:16:06,479 --> 01:16:10,079
Speaker 3: It's very interesting. That isn't remind you look bit seances

1484
01:16:10,239 --> 01:16:15,159
where in physical manifestations of siances, for instance Helen Duncan

1485
01:16:15,479 --> 01:16:20,199
and also with William Crooks and the medium who was

1486
01:16:20,720 --> 01:16:22,760
I forget the young medium he was working with, but

1487
01:16:22,840 --> 01:16:27,880
she was producing the materializations of Katie King. In all

1488
01:16:27,880 --> 01:16:32,520
those instances, they would illuminate the seance room with an

1489
01:16:32,560 --> 01:16:35,840
infrared lamp in safety reads because apparently if you did

1490
01:16:35,840 --> 01:16:39,800
it in normal daylight, these spirits would automatically de materialize

1491
01:16:39,840 --> 01:16:43,359
from their ectoplasmic forms and the ectoplasm would go rushing

1492
01:16:43,439 --> 01:16:46,920
back into medium and harm them or in some cases

1493
01:16:47,319 --> 01:16:49,720
it's really been quite life threatening to them.

1494
01:16:50,159 --> 01:16:51,479
Speaker 1: And Alex's okay, so she died.

1495
01:16:54,239 --> 01:16:58,199
Speaker 3: So the infrared light was there to enable the spirits

1496
01:16:58,239 --> 01:17:01,279
to safely walk around the room and be seen by

1497
01:17:01,359 --> 01:17:04,439
people in the rooms as well. So it's interesting that

1498
01:17:04,439 --> 01:17:09,560
that particular wavelength of light was allowable to see these spirits.

1499
01:17:09,600 --> 01:17:12,840
But it makes you wonder what these night visions and things,

1500
01:17:12,520 --> 01:17:17,119
other spectral creatures and things seem to be habiting other

1501
01:17:17,239 --> 01:17:19,840
other realities or something. You just need to see it

1502
01:17:19,880 --> 01:17:22,079
in the right wavelength. Literally, this is it.

1503
01:17:22,079 --> 01:17:24,479
Speaker 5: It could be. It could be a frequency thing, because

1504
01:17:24,760 --> 01:17:28,119
I'm not an expert on how night vision works, but

1505
01:17:28,119 --> 01:17:31,520
from what I understand, it uses radiation and photons, and

1506
01:17:31,600 --> 01:17:35,119
it takes lights and photons within the system kind of

1507
01:17:35,119 --> 01:17:37,680
amplify it. And that's why you see it. But it

1508
01:17:37,680 --> 01:17:40,640
could be the difference between red green blue, could be

1509
01:17:40,760 --> 01:17:44,479
using different frequencies. I've actually found, as we were talking,

1510
01:17:44,560 --> 01:17:46,600
a number of different articles on it, and I've dropped

1511
01:17:46,600 --> 01:17:48,159
it in chat so you can have a look at it,

1512
01:17:48,239 --> 01:17:53,039
and I would ask people to use their own Discernment

1513
01:17:53,199 --> 01:17:55,359
is probably the right word in looking at these things.

1514
01:17:55,399 --> 01:17:57,920
But it is bizarre. It's just bizarre.

1515
01:17:59,319 --> 01:17:59,640
Speaker 1: Okay.

1516
01:17:59,720 --> 01:18:02,119
Speaker 3: I think we're coming to the end of the paranormal

1517
01:18:02,159 --> 01:18:05,479
peep show now, so Andy Thomas, thank you very much

1518
01:18:05,560 --> 01:18:09,000
for joining us. Any final words on the paranorm what

1519
01:18:09,039 --> 01:18:11,640
you could sum up maybe in a paragraph or something,

1520
01:18:11,840 --> 01:18:13,840
especially about your book, as of course.

1521
01:18:14,960 --> 01:18:18,119
Speaker 1: I mean, it's happening, and I think we need to

1522
01:18:18,199 --> 01:18:20,920
kind of all grow up now, not us, but the world,

1523
01:18:21,319 --> 01:18:23,439
and just to accept there is such a thing as

1524
01:18:23,479 --> 01:18:27,319
the paranormal. It's not all easily explicable. So let's hear

1525
01:18:27,359 --> 01:18:30,960
people's stories and let's encourage people to speak out, because

1526
01:18:31,000 --> 01:18:33,000
I think when we do that, we're going to get

1527
01:18:33,000 --> 01:18:35,359
a whole other version of the world that we just

1528
01:18:35,399 --> 01:18:38,880
don't hear about enough. So listen, if you know all

1529
01:18:38,920 --> 01:18:40,840
about this kind of stuff, you're still going to find

1530
01:18:40,840 --> 01:18:43,960
a book Strange really helpful because ninety five percent of

1531
01:18:44,000 --> 01:18:47,560
it is brand new material and it's then woven in

1532
01:18:47,640 --> 01:18:51,279
with the bigger picture. And if you slightly new to it,

1533
01:18:51,319 --> 01:18:53,520
I mean, this is a good starting point to get

1534
01:18:53,720 --> 01:18:56,199
those conversations going. I mean, if you want to find

1535
01:18:56,239 --> 01:18:57,840
out about me and what I do, have a look

1536
01:18:57,880 --> 01:19:02,159
at my website, which is truth gender dot org, truththagender

1537
01:19:02,239 --> 01:19:04,479
dot org. And there's a whole page there about Strange

1538
01:19:04,520 --> 01:19:06,760
and where you can find it and what's in the book.

1539
01:19:07,239 --> 01:19:09,720
And you'll find a book easily enough in all the

1540
01:19:09,800 --> 01:19:12,840
usual places where you can buy books. Excellent.

1541
01:19:13,279 --> 01:19:15,439
Speaker 3: All right, Well, thank you very much for indeed for joining.

1542
01:19:15,439 --> 01:19:19,199
It's been a very fascinating discussion of all things UFOs,

1543
01:19:19,319 --> 01:19:22,439
u AP's ghosts, night vision, and all sorts of things

1544
01:19:22,479 --> 01:19:26,960
beyond that. Any final words, Andy and Bin, I.

1545
01:19:26,920 --> 01:19:28,000
Speaker 5: Think we've covered everything.

1546
01:19:28,039 --> 01:19:29,399
Speaker 4: I can't think of anything off the top of the

1547
01:19:29,439 --> 01:19:32,119
head right now, but just want to say thank you

1548
01:19:32,159 --> 01:19:35,520
to Andy T for being a really interesting guest. I've

1549
01:19:35,600 --> 01:19:38,159
we've spoken many times before and it's good to talk

1550
01:19:38,159 --> 01:19:38,640
to you again.

1551
01:19:39,479 --> 01:19:42,159
Speaker 5: And I could say that all the things the way

1552
01:19:42,239 --> 01:19:45,720
is absolutely fascinating. Hopefully, and if you'll write many more

1553
01:19:45,760 --> 01:19:49,000
different books, and actually, Andy t I'm going to ask

1554
01:19:50,199 --> 01:19:52,000
ask you to stay on a little bit because I'm

1555
01:19:52,039 --> 01:19:55,079
actually in the middle of dealing with somebody who's got

1556
01:19:55,079 --> 01:19:58,439
some quite freaky UFO stuff going on, so it might

1557
01:19:58,439 --> 01:19:59,960
be good to see if you can kind of the

1558
01:20:00,000 --> 01:20:02,680
bottom of it's it's bizarre, but we'll talk about that

1559
01:20:02,760 --> 01:20:04,199
off camera and see where that goes.

1560
01:20:05,520 --> 01:20:08,760
Speaker 3: Suy okay, thanks for joining us on the Paranormal Peep Show.

1561
01:20:08,880 --> 01:20:11,920
Join us again next month. We are Andy, Neil Ben

1562
01:20:12,039 --> 01:20:14,760
and Andy again on the Paranormal pep Show on the

1563
01:20:14,800 --> 01:20:16,920
Paranormal UK Radio Network.

1564
01:20:17,079 --> 01:20:41,920
Speaker 1: Good Night,