Speaker 1: And she emerged from the fire. But what's really fascinating
is she acknowledged them then suddenly saw this incredibly tall again,
you know, forty feet maybe screaming figure, this bright figure,
like really massive, standing on the hill.
Speaker 2: You're listening to the Paranormal UK Radio Network and now
it's time for the Paranormal Peep Show.
Speaker 3: Hi, welcome to the Paranormal Peek Show on the Paranormal
UK Radio Network. And joining me is regular host and
guest speaker is ben Emlyn Jones. How are you, Ben, Hi, Neil,
I'm very well, thank you.
Speaker 4: It's good to be back on the show for yet
another interesting interview and discussion.
Speaker 3: Yeah, we haven't had your run at well because you've
been away in America and doing all sorts of other
conferences and things like that. Is it good to be
back in the saddle again, as they say, it is.
Speaker 1: Kind of Yeah.
Speaker 4: I've been traveling a lot and going to a lot
of events. I've as many as I can really, and
I went to the premiers. Well, Caple Green has finally
emerged and so yeah, and it's the sixtieth anniversary of
the warm Inster saying coming up. So yeah, this calendar
has quite packed.
Speaker 1: At the moment.
Speaker 3: Yeah, I've got my ticket for that, so I'll probably
see you there. Great. Yeah, so a look look out
for a video on that at some point in the
future on the Paranormal UK Radio network. So we'll jump
straight to our guest. And the last time I was
just talking to him before we started to hit the record,
But I think we had Andy Thomas our guest, about
five years ago. Do you agree with that, Andy Ruffy
on our show?
Speaker 1: Well, medieval times Now it's seem so long ago, doesn't
it that. So it's smart to be back.
Speaker 3: Anyway, Thank you for joining us once again, so we're
more positive terms to join us because the last time
I think we spoke it was just as COVID was
hitting our shores and we were discussing what's COVID nineteen
and what does it all mean and things like that.
And we've now kind of waded through all the things
that came with that, all the unexpected things that came
with that as well as the expected things. And you've
written a new book, haven't you. So it's called Strange,
is that right? It is?
Speaker 1: And it is a bit strange, which is the idea
the strangest thing of all about it, though, being that
in the end, when you look around you and you
look at all the paranormal things going on, as you
all know, the strange isn't really that strange at all.
So there is a kind of an irony in the
name there, because it's about people's experiences of the paranormal
and the strange that I've been collecting for a long
while now, for all the thousands of people I've met
over the years who are completely ordinary, normal folk with
no interest at all in the paranormal, who had paranormal experiences,
and because you know, I stand up on stages and
blab about it, they feel safe to share their stories
with me. So I thought, you know what, this needs
recording and analyzed and put into a kind of a
usable form. And what you realize is there's many forms
of the paranormal, and yet you all kind of drawing
up in the middle. And the book, I hope tells
the story. There's a narrative in there, and by the
end you realize, hang on, all these disparate things aren't disparate.
Tools are all linked. The world is strange, The universe
is leaky, which is a course for exciting.
Speaker 3: So before you actually got to this book, you've written
thads of other books. And my understanding is that you
worked in an office for a while, then you tried
your luck being a keyboard player in bands and things,
and I know you still play the game with this day.
But somewhere in that mix you started to get involved
with crop circles. And was that always a fascination for
you or was someone asking you to, hey, your fancy
coming to a crop circle one day?
Speaker 1: That's where it started. Yeah, So I mean crop circles
that you know, as some people will know that, that's
where it came from me, and that's what some people
still know me as, although I've been studying loads of
things over the years. But yeah, back in nineteen ninety one,
I was in the West Country on holiday and there
were loads of crop circles and I had kind of
heard about them, and it was faintly curious about them,
but didn't really think that much about them until I
got down there where there were so many of them,
and you know, every horizon you looked at there seemed
to be another crop formation, and I just something, you know,
something went thing in the pit of my stomach. That
I really needed to know more, and that's when I
sort of began this insane search to try to get
to the bottom of what that was all about. But then,
of course, the more you get into that, and I
joined my own research team down here in Sussex and
began to meet more and more people, you find there's
loads of people that are investigating different strands, not only
of crop circles, but paranormal as a whole. And of
course that then leads you into people looking into UFOs
and then cover ups and conspiracies, and you know, before
I knew it, that took my life over really and
by some strange securities route, I found myself being asking
lectures about it and then write books. And here I
am and so you know, I tour around trying to
tell people, hey, this is still going on, and we're
stuff's happening and maybe we should all talk about it.
And luckily there are quite a lot of people who
still will talk about it for all the skepticism that
you know, you know, we always have to deal with.
Speaker 3: Yeah, definitely, ben I.
Speaker 4: Just as you also you are part of the organizing
for the Glacesty Symposium as well. That's that's quite something.
So it is quite an It's quite an event that
some posia, wasn't it.
Speaker 1: So, I mean, yeah, we just had the latest one
a couple of weeks ago, and it's thirty five years old.
It's done very well. I didn't begin it, I should
tell you. I came in about three years later, and
it's managed to survive. And I think the reason it's
survived is that it's always grown, it's always evolved. We
haven't stayed the same. It began looking at crop circles
and UFOs, but you know, as we all realize, okay,
this is the wall, came active with loads of other stuff.
It gradually embraced that and now you know, we call
it expand your Horizons event because it is about making
people look at the world around them with new eyes.
So we've managed to survive and people still come, which
is ever so nice. And in the end, we're trying
to get conversations going that are just not considered respectable
in the mainstream world, which is ever so annoying. But
it gives you a mission, you know, you know, it
gives you a cause.
Speaker 4: Does I mean it's really I mean, perhaps because because
you have such a wide variety of interests and there's
what perhaps what is contributed to success. I mean I
couldn't go this year, unfortunately. I've had the tour of
them over the years and I've really I've had a
great time on both occasions. And there's there's UFOs there,
there's like a deep geopolitics. I mean in our Crane
was always like a big partner everything he did, his
deep geopolitics.
Speaker 1: God bless him.
Speaker 4: I miss him and I think that's yeah, I think
this is this is really what I think contributed. It
contributes to why it's such a good event, and I
do recommend going there.
Speaker 1: Yeah, yeah, it covers a pro spectrum, but hopefully it
all connects in the middle and it's all about just
being able to have conversations that you know, it's not
so easy to have outside of that safe environment. But
equally then you meet like minded people there, you exist together,
you share conversations and stories and of course that is
where networks grow. And yeah, I'm pleased to say that.
You know, the Glastonbris Symposium has they brought many people
together over the years, which is fantastic.
Speaker 3: It's a good, good example of people uniting together under
one roof of things that they're prepared to be in
the open and talk to each other about and they
feel comfortable about it. And I'm sure that I've had
the same experiences as you have, Andy writing books on
the paranormal, where people will come up to you at
the end of a talk and will privately tell you
there they're strange, bizarre parent.
Speaker 1: Oh Andy's Neil has unfrozen, oh dear has frozen normal.
Speaker 3: Time past them, that ball of information to be filed
away somewhere because they can't sort of just ignore it.
And the Glastonbriees and posing and other places like changing Times.
Speaker 1: Which you organize as well, and you.
Speaker 3: Know other sorts of places that Ben's done, dreaming sources
and the hyper Comparanormal meet upgroup which I used to run.
It's a great place for people of like minds to
gather and kind of discuss these things, and that's where
these little nuggets of information sometimes pop up.
Speaker 1: Which has helped.
Speaker 3: You greatly in your latest book, of course, because you've
actually very really cleverly listed your sources of information of
where they've come to, whether they've come through communications i
i e. Email or conversations or any other form and
things like that, and so it's interesting to see how
these things have come through to you. And what was
going to ask you? Was there any kind of area
of the paranormal You was always a bit suspicious that
maybe couldn't be true, But you've since changed your mind.
Speaker 1: About Ah, No, not really. I mean I've always been
open minded. I mean, I was brought up as Roman Catholic,
So you've got to be overn minded, haven't you. If
you can believe that, you'll be able to look at anything.
But I think, although that's not my pathway now, you know,
I don't regret having that background because it opens you
up to the mysterious, to the new menus, you know.
And so no, I mean I've always said I will
never ridicule anyone, no matter how seemingly bizarre their interests are.
And the same with people that believe in conspiracy theories.
If you have a theory that sounds bizarre, I'll hear
it out if you've got some evidence and there's a
conversation worth having. I'm not going to laugh at anyone,
because things that you know, people do laugh at do
sometimes turn out to be valid, or at least there's
something they're worth talking about. And that's what I'm always saying.
Let's talk about it now, Let's have the conversation, don't
just brush it under the carpet. And I mean, I'm
really lucky because I get to speak mostly to completely normal,
everyday groups, you know, community groups. That's just the way
it's gone. I give talks about other things too, history,
folklore and whatever, and you just find therefore people there
have never had that opportunity before to share with somebody
that is going to be open to them. And it
is amazing, like you say, Neil, what they come out
with because suddenly they're in a safe space to do so.
And the conversation will often begin with one of two things.
One is, well, I've never told anybody this before, but
and then they tell you some incredible stories. And the
other is, well, I'm very skeptical about these things. But
and then they tell you something they're clearly they're not
skeptical at all. It some incredible paranormal event happened to them.
But you know, yeah, recording that and making sort of
some examination of what this means for reality, it's in
a way, it's.
Speaker 3: And we take a break here on the Paranormal peep
show to allow Andy Chaplin, who is waiting in the
sidelines to join us, to carry on into you and
Andy Thomas right, and as you can see or here,
we now have Andy Chaplin join us. He had trouble
joining us via the teams which we are now using
in replacement of Skype. But it's never been a happy
bunny so far, and we don't think it will be
for the rest of our days. So we're going to
try and make sure that we don't get our Andy's confused,
because we've got to Andy's in in the in the
mix now. So Andy Thomas has agreed to be called
Andy T and Andy Chaplin will just be still called Andy.
Speaker 1: Is that all right?
Speaker 3: Is that all clear? Everyone? Something to distinguish, So just
to remind listeners. And Andy T has written a book
called Strange and Paranormal Stories from various people he's met
or dialogue with over the years. Now, I started to
read the book a few days ago, Andy T. And
one of the stories that struck me as very interesting
was concerning and a guy that was walking his dog
in Hong Kong, and he was walking up a hill
from where he lived, and I believe if I recall, right,
we have some war battle maybe from the Second World War,
occurred in that vicinity, and he saw this luminous figure
and the dog ran away and he went right up
close to it. So can you take us through that story.
It's very very interesting. Definitely, Well, we can even name
the person that's happened to, so some of these stories
in the book are anonymous. But this was a man
called Mike Waller who I've known Mike for quite some
years now, very irrespectable, upright standing member of society. And
he worked in Hong Kong for many.
Speaker 1: Years, and he was awaking for the British government there
and would therefore go out, yeah, walking on the islands
with his dog with the unusual name of Queen Queen.
So Queen Queen's running up hill and suddenly, as dogs
will do, and the paranormals around just suddenly reacted really
strongly and was barking and going mad. And when Mike
looked at what the dog was looking at, there was
this sort of shimmering sort of looked like a thicker
humanoid thigre there. But as you say, what was really
fascinating was and Mike, you know, he's very open minded
to this kind of thing. He was just he wanted
to get closer, he wanted to look at it, and
the nearer he realized that instead of it being one
block of white shape, actually it was made up of
lots of like mini globules of light, spheres of light
making up with the whole of this humanoid figure, which
is something that I've not heard before. But he was
very clear about it. And what's fascinating was he was
struck by this incredible sense of sadness about it. It's
like this figure was trying to reach out in some
way to him, but you know, it was seeing that
they were fearful. The dog was going mad. He wasn't
quite sure what to do.
Speaker 5: Part of him.
Speaker 1: Thought he should try and reach out to it, but
then on the other hand, he thought, well, you know,
I don't know what this is going to do. You know,
it's not interfered with me yet, but it might do
if I try to intervene. So yes, he then thought, well,
I want to remember where the spot was, and he
marked where he was standing very close now to this
apparition with stones, and then the apparition faded away and
he did go back there. He didn't see it again,
but he then found out that there had indeed been
a battle on those very slopes in World War two,
presumably between the Americans and Japanese and the British. I
imagine we're involved too, and we'll never know for sure.
But the impression he got was this was somebody who
died in this battle. And you know, in the classic
ghost to the way that he often gets as the
book records, when something's are traumatic death and often when
it's quick death as well. It's like the spirit whatever
you want to call it, doesn't know where it is,
it doesn't know what's happened, and that's often when it
will leave a ghost that will forever seem to appear
in that place. Now we only know if that one
sighting it, maybe others had also seen it, or maybe
it was a one off. But this creature of the humanoid,
we assume what's a personally, it left it smart there.
It felt like it was trying to reach out in
some way. Yeah, and it also what our story also
identifies is something that often gets overlooked with ghost stories,
is that there is an emotional value attached to it.
So Mke felt very sad. He felt very melancholic afterwards
about this. It wasn't frightening as such, as more he
felt a longing to want to help this being, whatever
it was. And that's something you hear in a number
of ghost stories.
Speaker 5: They knew and Ben, have you ever heard of an
apposition being made up of different or at all? It
sounds almost like when you get those Chinese displays of
loads of drones together and they make like one big object.
Speaker 3: But kind of Yeah, it's a strange one, isn't it.
Speaker 4: He's not really heard of that. I've not heard of
that at all. It's interesting that some and Andy t
you say that some Mike have an open mind to
this sort of thing, and indeed some witnesses to these
phenomena and are people with a pre existing interest. However,
as you I think you already stated earlier, a lot
of them are just ordinary people who don't have a
pre existing interest someone as they develop one afterwards as
a result of their experience, whether it's UFO, cryptozoology, ghost
or whatever.
Speaker 3: It might be.
Speaker 4: And that to me lends I think that lends a
lot of credibility to it, because if these things were
figments of our imagination. You wouldn't get that, you would
get it would be something exclusively for pre existing believers.
Speaker 1: Yeah, I agree with that. And then one of the
things that really annoys me. And by the way, the
book Strange opens with a bit of a salvo against
the skeptics, gets that out of the way and then
we can get on. Then we get on look at
a really interesting evidence. Not trying to count to them
all the time, but it does need saying that. They
tend to just say, well, you wanted that to happen,
so you imagined it. You wanted to meet your recently
deceased relatives, so you imagine that you spoke to them.
That is so ef thing, condescending. It's a patronizing, right,
That's that's not what's happening to most people. Most people
do not expect this. They have no wish to see
a ghosts at all. It happens to them out of
the blue. And as you said that, Ben, often that's
the moment where they cross over and realize, hang on,
all these things I've been hearing about over the years,
maybe it's true after all, because you know, they then
have that their own experience of it. So yeah, I
think it's a very profound thing to meet the paranormal
like that, and I think it's a personal experience that
does open people up. Although as I mentioned earlier, some
people will still say, well, that's I saw this ghost
or whatever, and they'll describe it in great detail. But
then they'll say at the end of it, but I'm
still skeptical, and I left quite know what that means.
That it's almost like they feel they have to say
that in case anybody around them is going to make
fun of them. So that's another interesting phenomenon.
Speaker 3: I met a guy years ago who worked as a
security guard and he had told me that he when
he lived on one of these West Indian islands, I
think it's Soilucia. He said that he was coming home
from the bar one night with his mate. So you think, oh, yeah,
he's had a few, But it was the fact that,
you know, you talk about this, are they group hallucinations
or possibly not? And both him and his friend as
they walked up the hill, they came round the hill
and on the church roof he said he saw a
woman sitting on the church roof and I cad, what
was the woman? Don't sitting on the church roof, and
he says, she was no ordinary woman. She was as
white as the fridge freezer. Because where we were working,
we were actually in the staff canteen at the time,
and there was the bridge freezer, and he used that
as his kind of description tool, and he said it
was as white as a fridge freezer. But she was
at least fifty foot tall, and you know, my jaw
dropped and I said, oh my god. He said, yes,
she was sitting on the roof of this church with
her feet either side of it. He couldn't believe it,
so he checked with his friend, who by now was
hiding in fright behind a gravestone, and he verified with him.
He says, can you see what I can see? And
he said, yes I can. So this security guard owen,
he said, he picked up a stone and he threw
it and it went straight through this fifty foot woman.
And I said, well, what happened? Then he said, she
stepped off this church like as if it was a
doll's house that she was sitting, started to walk towards
them as a fifty foot tall woman. And I always
think it's not a good idea to throw stones at
fifty lap women, but she shrunk inside, and as she
shrank inside, she just dissipated and demateialized into the ground.
But the interesting thing after all that, he said, I
still don't believe in ghosts and goodies and things that
go bumping, and I still don't believe they exist. And
I said, well what about that? Then he says, I
don't know. It's almost he was in denial because he
didn't want to accept that reality that he had come
across with his friend, which almost proved it to him
because the batter.
Speaker 4: Schools, Yeah, you can't two of you can't hallucinate the
same things, right, Yeah, well, yeah.
Speaker 1: You wouldn't have thought. I mean, I mean again, that
is something that you know the book records is that often,
as you know, it's more than one person that has
this experience. So for this theory it's all in one
person's mind. That is plainly just untrue because there's a
lot of group sightings and it's very talking about people
who see the paranormal but are still skeptical.
Speaker 5: I mean.
Speaker 1: Somebody that pops up through the narrative of the book
is my friend Phil and Phil the guitarist as I
call him, and I worked with Phil for many years,
thirty four years. We dig together and he, you know,
on the surface, he'll tell you he's a complete skeptic,
but then he will regale you with all these strange
things that have happened to him. And one interesting thing
is tooking about big figures. So he and a group
of friends, and they were in their late teens probably,
were walking home one night past these kind of very
black downlands not far from where I was born, actually,
Lewis and his Sussex, and they suddenly saw this incredibly
tall again, you know, forty feet maybe, screaming figure, this
bright figure, like really massive, standing on the hill, screaming
at the sky and with this horrible howling. And they
were all so frightened by it, and they all saw
it that they ran, and they noticed all the cattle
in the fields nearby were running away from it as well.
They were going completely mantle. The cattle was falling over
trying to get away from it, which was terrifying. But
of course they all knew they were all seeing the
same thing, even the cattle were, so they knew they
weren't just hallucinating it. And you know, it's things like
that that you hear, and you never really get to
make any sense of them other than I've learned since
that other people have seen the same apparition in that
same area. So this is the thing. It's like, the
more people talk about it, the more you're going to
get to hear the truth. Whereas Phil will say, well,
I don't know, there must be some explanation, but he
can't tell you what it is. And that's often the
case with you know, the everyday paranormal people. They find
a way to rationalize it, but really, in the end,
you've got to begin to embrace, you know, the reality,
possibly of other realms, to come to terms with it.
I don't think anything does have a Monday and explanation.
Speaker 5: Do you think that people don't genuinely don't believe, or
that they don't want to because it might unopen the
big can of worms that they don't want to kind
of have a look at themselves.
Speaker 1: Yeah, well, I think it is often that. I think
there's a fear of the unknown and a fear of
them having to embrace the universe that you can't make
any sense of. Now we're used to talking about that.
A lot of people aren't. It's all to them it's
a to be it's black, it's white, and of course
it isn't, but facing that it is something people don't
want to go to. And I think we're seeing that
really now very interestingly with the whole world of UFO
stroke up research, where it's edging ever more closely to
more and more surprisingly high level whistleblowers saying, hey, this
is real, and now you're getting a kind of a
kickback against that of people just don't want it to
be real. You know, the most amazing, stunning bit of
footage ever, somebody will still say it's blooms or whatever,
because it's like they cannot face that. They know that
the day that lid comes off, everything changes, And I mean,
I think there's official factions that don't want that to
happen because they're trying to protect themselves or who knows
what they're trying to do. I think though, there is
also a strong cultural allerge to not acknowledge it, because
then you've got to realize the world you're living in
is frightening. Same with belief in conspiracy theories. That's why
some people will pooh pooh conspiracy theories because they don't
want them to be true, because the day you say
they are, they don't feel safe in the world they're
living in. And yeah, I do think that is a
big part of it.
Speaker 5: What's the difference between a conspiracy theory and fast about
six months every year? Well these there.
Speaker 1: On.
Speaker 5: On that note, andy T, this huge asteroid that they
thought was an asteroid, some of the biggest scientific minds
are now actually saying, well, actually there's about zero point
five per said, this is a natural formation and could
be a huge UFO heading to the UK. And there's
now debate not so much whether it's a UFO or
whether it's a natural asteroid, but whether it's come here
for good reasons or to annihilate us.
Speaker 3: I'm very glad you brought this because I was actually
going to ask andy T about that.
Speaker 4: But Atlas, Yeah, yeah, Well isn't it interesting?
Speaker 1: And what's most interesting is how we all react to it. Now,
there's been the occasional other body what was that I
can't remember its name. There was that long thing that
who was a owlar system thank you, a few years ago,
and it was behaving oddly and then it seemed to
go on its way. So this, if it is a comet.
It's behaving very oddly. I mean, it's an interstellar object.
It seems to have come from a long, long way away.
It's not something that's generally orbiting around our solar system
from what they're telling us something who knows, But yeah,
I mean the way it's behaving, it's doing things that
normal comets don't do, and the speed and the trajectory
that seems to be heading roughly our way. I mean,
it doesn't seem to be on a collision course today,
but who knows. Yeah, it's made some people, even like
you say it's surprisingly high level people are saying, well,
this is actually quite odd. So one of the reasons
some people think there is a UFO cover up is
that they think will be just too terrified to know
what's coming if they told us the truth. So you know,
now theo's theory is, yeah, is this the thing coming
to visitors? Is it going to hark itself in orbit
and that's the big unveiling, or is it going to
hit us and wipe us all out because somebody else
there's decided we're too dangerous. And either way, you know,
the authorities probably think the day we know that he
they lose all control and be a lot of people
will go a bit mad, which they probably will.
Speaker 3: So yeah, isn't it.
Speaker 1: It's very interesting.
Speaker 4: It is exactly how people would I mean, I'd be
thrilled to bits. But yeah, And there's a lot of
really sensationalist headlines which you see everywhere, which like alien
invasion in six months and things like this is all nonsense.
It's all based on the look of Professor Avi Loebe,
who's the scientist who actually originally discovered a muama and
it's his blog is actually fascinating in the various papers
he's written. He's very very senior, isn't He's in Israeli,
but he's actually head of the American Astronomical Society, and
he actually is in the Harvard University. I can't remember
that the title of his position. He's basically a head
of astronomy and astrophysics, the most.
Speaker 3: Senior as you can get. So this is the going
with a tin four hat. Definitely not.
Speaker 4: But he's been treated I mean, for example, he did
an interview with Jill Tata, who's someone who works for SETI,
the Search for Extra Trust and Intelligence. I mean, she
swore at him on this public forum, and I thought
it's a really there's been a real emotional of a
reaction to what he said. And I'm sure there are
plenty of scientists out there who secretly agree with him,
but they don't want the kind of agro he's had
to put up with.
Speaker 1: No Well, and that's something that you know, I've written
about before in my other book, my previous book, The
New Heretics. When an official mainstream scientist says one thing
that is off topic, they are branded maverick and that's it.
All their scientific credentials are pushed aside, and clearly they're
mad and wrong. And that happens all the time, which
of course creates this horrible, constant polarization where you want
people in the official scientific world to get on board
and look at the paranormal or whatever it may be,
and of course they're fearful to do so because they
know the day they do that their careers are over.
And there's another good example of that in the moment now,
ben you usinly good or names. I can't remember her name,
but there's an astronomer. Now, there's another astronomer working with
her who's been looking at old plates.
Speaker 4: Bitches, feel the real that's certainly Swedish lady. That's such
a geek because I can't remember her name, So that's fantastic.
Speaker 1: So yes, So she's now look at these plates taken
before any known space travel here, and there's different docs
moving around and they're clearly not stars, they're not asterized.
Speaker 5: What are they?
Speaker 1: And she's saying, I don't think we can ignore this now,
And she's trying at the moment to get a peer
review paper published, although I think she's beginning to think
it won't be because again, it just doesn't speak the orthodoxy,
because basically it says, hey, there was something flying around
the Earth, even back then when there wasn't supposed to be,
So what are they? And that's an astronomer. But even
just daring to raise that you just get slam down.
And it's such a shame.
Speaker 3: And I've noticed that she's actually published the draft. I mean,
I think she's certainly not naive, because I think she
realizes exactly how.
Speaker 4: Different this is going to be for her. So it's
she actually put the draft on a PDF and put
it in a public domain.
Speaker 1: I've read it.
Speaker 4: I've read the whole thing, A lot of it's very technical.
I don't understand every word, but she clearly has gone
to great troubles to eliminate other possibilities, the possibility of art,
of natural objects in the sky, of blemishes on the film,
are the kinds of effects. And it really this doesn't
get published, it'll obviously be for an ideological reason and
not because it's unscientific.
Speaker 1: Yeah. Well, it's a bit like Richard Tarness, who wrote
this incredible book about so the Western history and the
Western mind and all of that, and then one day
he decided he was going to write a book about
astrology and why it works, and of course that was
the end of his career. So the minute you cross
out of that very narrow band the scientism says is real,
that's the reality. Unfortunately, But mainly she will just decide, look,
this is so important to me, I don't care. I've
got to go public with this. And the fact that
you're saying that she's put this pdf out there already,
I mean in the way she's kind of condemned herself,
I don't doubt, because so that will now be embraced
by mad people like us, and of course that would
be the end of the first scientific career. But what
a silly will.
Speaker 5: We live in?
Speaker 4: It's a fatal company because she's already in trouble for
joining Dennis Asperria, the man who discovered the Baltic Sea anomaly,
the strange object on the seabed that he's with, the
with the company that actually found her. Yeah, so she's
actually working with him.
Speaker 5: Nelson. Yes, if this object does turn out to be
in quote, alien, that raises some interesting questions because we
need to find out the speed of it. And then
given the speed, how long it would take or how
long this object would have taken to get here from
let's say the newest inhabitable planet, whatever that might be,
or star or edge of the Solar system? You know,
how long would it have taken for this object to
get here? And if it's something like light years, you know,
equating even into thousands of years or millions of years,
is that feasible or is it somehow jumping through wormholes
or something like that. So the kind of like the
logical kind of like the nuts and bolts of it,
I'm quite interested in as well.
Speaker 4: Currently, all the current theories are based on the premise
that this is a natural object in the space has
been on the same trajectory for billions of years out
in space before it stumbled onto the Solar System by accident,
and they're saying it's it actually emerged from Sagittarius in
the direction of Sagittarius, which is basically where they the
galactic core is, and so it's probably come from they
reckon from that region. Although this is all dependent Neil, Sorry, Andy,
as you said, it's all dependent on that fact if
fat fast is not true. So for example, if it
changes course again, then we've got to assume that maybe it.
Speaker 3: Changed courses before. But one important point.
Speaker 4: To raise here is that it's pretty obviously you can't
cover things like this up.
Speaker 1: Sure.
Speaker 4: If you get a crash retrieval like Roswell, it's it's
it's quite comparatively very easy to suppress because it's a
strictly local affair. You just steal off the area, you
get rid of the decisive evidence, and then you just
put out a weather balloon story or something like that.
This is something above our heads that all the telescopes
in the world can see, and there's thousands of millions
of amateurs, there's thousands of professional astronomers, so it's not
actually possible to suppress this, so I know it.
Speaker 5: If they're saying this is coming from Sagittarius and probably
a natural object, why there's so many people saying that
it's not a natural object and they're saying that there's
a zero point five percent chance being an edilo pet.
Speaker 4: Avi Lobe actually and tis our guess. But Avi Lobe
on his blog has a full explanation about exactly why
he says it's quite likely this is non natural.
Speaker 1: I mean, I think in the end, the only problem
we have is that we have her claims like this before.
You might remember in the nineties, was it comet hail
bop and everybody's said that there's an alien presence and
something's following it. But wasn't that the one that triggered
this mass suicide? So the danger is yes, I say
that people they project a lot onto these and then
of course it goes again and nothing happens, and of
course that doesn't look very good. Then when people put
these ideas forward again, though, you have to just be
open minded, like you say, Ben, at the end of
the day, you can't cover this up if that suddenly
starts to maneuver in ways that no known comet does.
They're not going to be able to hide that, and
so that's going to be really interesting to see what happens. Right.
Speaker 3: I think we need to take a break here, guys,
because we're running up to near the hour, So we'll
take a break and we'll be back with Part two
with Andy Tass on the Paranormal Peak Show on the
Paranormal UK Radio Networks. Stay with us the Day's the
best day life listening to the Paranormal UK Readio Network.
Speaker 4: Join Andrew o'leil every month on the Paranor peep Show,
part of the Paranoral UK Radio Network for fun that
frolics and lots of information about weird stuff, UFOs, ghosts
and things that go bump in the night and everything
associated with them. Fascinating guests, fascinating talk, fascinating information.
Speaker 3: Welcome back to the Paranormal Peep Show and the Paranormal
UK Radio Network with myself, nil Ward, Ben Emlin, Jones,
Andy Chaplin and our guest Andy Thomas. Now, before we
get to Anie Thomas, Andy Chaplin wants to talk about
Astra Zeneca, So go ahead, ay.
Speaker 5: So we all love a good conspiracy theory don't we nail.
And the whole COVID era was we've got to be
careful what we say because we're now living under communist censorship,
under labor the mark this communist Labor party who wants
to sense everything. So we've got to be a little
bit careful about what we say. So don't get the
stars in knocking at the door. But I came across
something very disturbing over the weekend about the name Astrazenica,
now Astrosenica. People think that the name sounds so futuristic
and modern. You think about the cosmos and astrology and
kind of like reaching for the stars. Astrasenica they're going
to fix everything, right, Okay, this is a thing that
people can do at home, and you can kind of
like go along with this at home to test it.
Because when I first saw this, you've got to be
wary of these things, and you've got to be objective
and skeptical and think, Okay, is this just a load
of old bollocks or is this true? And you've got
to do this with all sources of information. I want
people to go on to Google Translate, and I want
you to go from Latin to English. Okay, and then
I want you to break down the name Astrosenica into this,
a stra z nika, a stra z nicker so astra
Zeneca broken down, guess what it comes out as.
Speaker 3: What's the Latin A.
Speaker 5: Road to death?
Speaker 1: Road to death?
Speaker 5: Oh, my god, road to death. I'm going to put
it in chat. You can have a look. And I've
tested this, so it's not a case of you see
an image and you believe it and then you test it. Oh,
it's a load of old rubbish. No, no, no, you literally
going to Google translate from Latin to English astra Nika
A road to death. They're actually telling you what they're doing.
Speaker 1: Made that they do the don't they?
Speaker 3: I mean, this is in a way. Aren't this done?
Surprising me?
Speaker 5: Andy? Because yeah, they doesn't. The illuminacy always do this.
They've got to tell you what they're doing. If they're
going to screw you over or they're going to genocide you,
they've got to tell you what they're doing. And you see,
what's your comment on this?
Speaker 1: Oh, I have no idea. I mean, isn't it fun? Though?
You start looking at the origins of a lot of
industrial names, and I'm sure we would get the real
story coming out, Like I think you're right. I think
look embedded symbolism. It's only fun if you can actually
let people know that it is embedded symbolism. If it's
too clever, they don't get any satisfaction out of that.
So what can we say. It would be worth asking
them one day what they haven't say about that.
Speaker 4: It's not used to do with their belief system. I mean,
for Vince, people who've been inside are sort of like
black magic areas. I mean Mark Pascio for example, is
a very good source for this. They said, the reason
they have to tell you is only so they have
to tell you in advance what they're doing. They have
not directly, but they hint at it, and they least
clues and it's in their belief system, you see. It's
it's like a karmic it's a carmic green light if
we then don't.
Speaker 5: But their belief system is if they tell you, then
technically they've given your then you've given consent if you
don't object through. I think that's where they're coming from.
Speaker 4: So obviously it's not something signed in triplical, which is
very comprehensive. It's a hint it's a clue.
Speaker 3: It's like you get.
Speaker 4: These strange symbols in movies, you know, like Neo's passport
expired on nine to eleven and things like that. It's
them saying, you know, this is what we're going to do.
And if you don't notice these things and don't say anything,
don't object, and don't.
Speaker 3: Stop us, it's your fault. Is this why I put
everything in Latin in medical terms so that they can
sweep it under the carpet a little bit.
Speaker 5: Well, I don't know about medical terms, but certainly the
Bible was originally in Latin, and there was objections in
turning it into English for that very reason. They wanted
it to be in control of you know, the people
in the fox that have their connecting with God. They
didn't want it in English for the masses to learn.
Speaker 4: Yeah, I mean the people think the King James Bible
was the first English Bible. No, there was a guy
called Wesley, I think John somebody Wesley here in Oxford
where I live, four hundred years earlier. He translated the
Bible into English. He made it, he published his own translation.
Speaker 3: What happened to him so that he was lynched by
a gang of priest.
Speaker 5: Yeah.
Speaker 3: Yeah, lots of people were burnt at the stake and
things for translating to English, an irony of you do
not do no harm and that kind of stuff is
this makes a complete fallacy of the whole thing. Anyway,
getting back to Andy Thomas's book, The Fantastic New Arrival
on the Paranormal Bookshelves called Strange, we were talking about
ghosts in part one and I still haven't kind of
completely left her air or I know, there's other areas
to go into within the book itself. One of the
other intriguing ghost stories Andy t that we well I
read anyway, was the lady that materialized out of some
people's chimney and they came out the fire six this lady,
can you tell us about?
Speaker 1: That's really fascinating that one. Okay, what's good about that
is again that is another example of more than one
person witnessing the same thing. So they were an elderly couple,
but they had them marbles and I was chatting to them,
and then in the way of it, they're very casual about, oh,
we had a ghost walk out of our fireplace one day,
you know, like that's the most normal thing in the world.
Because so they lived in a nice old country English
house and they had a big fireplace and they would
sit on a you know, cold afternoon with their tea
the side of the fire or cozy and then one
day while they were doing that, suddenly, out of the fire,
this sort of this intensity began and it literally took
on the full form of just this lady in what
they described as period dress. Now yeah, that can mean anything,
but some kind of historical costume she was wearing, and
she emerged from the fire. But what's really fascinating is
she acknowledged them. She stopped and it's like she was
seeing then they were seeing her like sitting there like
with their tea, and she just looked at them kind
of unconcerned, and then walked on and just vanished into
the wall opposite. Now, the fascinating thing it was to
talk with them, the two witnesses at the same time,
and you just you realize that just telling you something
that happened one afternoon, you know what I mean? Yes,
they were disturbed. Is the wrong work, but unsettled them, yes,
but it got them onto doing what some people do
after that is to think why was she coming out
of the fireplace, and they looked back at the earlier
plans of the house and discovered that where a wall
and a fireplace was eventually put in, that was a corridor,
So that would have been a way through the house
that people would have walked on. So did that lady
once upon a time, in whatever time period it was,
just suddenly find herself standing in a fire and two
people saying, yeah, what does she say? That's what I
ever find really fascinating. Did she see them as the ghosts?
She seemed too perturbed. If she did, and then maybe
she just thought, like a lot of us do, well,
there's got to be some explanation and just carry it on.
And then there's a few stories like that in the
book where people see the ghost and the ghost is
looking at them like it's seeing something weird. So what
is a ghost? We might be the ghost to them,
and this is just some tube in time and space
that suddenly connects two different time space points together. You know,
we're all ghosts to somebody somewhere.
Speaker 3: That's really fascinating because when I read that, it stirred
in my mind the memory of reading in the book
The Vertical Plane, which is about the Donnalston messages and Ben,
you have an interest in this area as well. And
I have briefly alluded to the Dodalston messages in previous
Paranormal pep Share episodes, but just to briefly go over it.
It's about this couple in the nineteen eighties, mid nineteen eighties,
Ken Webster and his girlfriend Debbie, and he was a
teacher and he kind of borrowed computers early computers Acorn
BBC Acorn computers from the school he was working at,
and he was bringing her different computers over a period
of a year. But they mysteriously found these messages written
in early modern English, appearing to come from a guy
about four hundred years early who was using some sort
of communication and communicating through their computer, which obviously in
those days wasn't connected to any internet, so we didn't
know what the Internet was then. But somehow I was
receiving messages. And in those days those computers you just
typed in like a word document and saved it for
a flofthy disc but they'd be extra files appearing on
the computer with these messages.
Speaker 1: Now, the guy who.
Speaker 3: Claimed that he was communicating through said that he was
from the here fifteen thirty eight or something like that,
and he said that someone stepped out of his chimney
in the Middle Ages with a box of lights, as
he described it, because he had no word for a computer,
he just called it a box of lights and instructed
him on how to use it. Now, I don't think
one moment we imagine a ma evil guy tapping away
on a quirity keyboard back in the fifteen hundreds. From
what he described in his messages, he just seemed to speak,
and the messages formed in the air and somehow appeared
in nineteen eighty four. But the original person that came
from a future beyond us apparently brought this box of
lights back to him in the fifteen hundreds. So again,
he stepped out of a fireplace. And I wonder if
fireplaces are portals or can be used as portals for
spirits emerging from one portal or dimension to another. Any thoughts, Ooh,
I mean, I mean obviously firefire.
Speaker 1: I mean it's it's sacred, it's you know, there's so
many rituals around it. With a fire in its right
acts as a portal. I don't know, but that's interesting,
isn't it to make that connection there. What I have
discovered though, is that you know, anything can be a portal. Obviously,
haunted houses are effectively somewhere where time and space is
got very leaky stuff comes and goes, and not always
the same stuff. I mean, if you look at skin Walk,
a ranch for instance, where you know, if we believe
even a third of what they claim comes and goes,
there just seems to be this place that attracts beings
of different kinds, and you hear that in houses, so
there might be a recurring ghost, for instance, but then
people will start to see strange creatures there, or you know,
different people will see different things, and it's like it's
just it's a weak point in time and space. But
equally it can be individuals with the portals where they
can leave a house where they thought it was haunted,
go to a completely new house and the ghost will
follow them. And there's a couple of cases of that
in the book, and they see the same ghost and they, oh, no,
I thought I got rid of it. Here it is
again because they other portal rather than the place. And
there's a number of cases where you will get a
very haunted house with a lot of bad activity or
just strange activity coming on. That family moves out, a
new family comes in and nothing happens. That was because
it's like they're just tuned in differently for whatever reason.
So I think there are different things that can be
portal's fire as a portla in its own right. That's
an interesting idea maybe. I'm sure some ancient people would
tell you.
Speaker 5: So that was the case with the Enfield haunting. Apparently
when they changed houses where the people the new people
moved in, they got nothing, But where the girls went
to and the mum went to, it carried on. I
don't notice the same ghost bill or whether it was
different ghosts, But as you say, I think the girl
was the center of attention, and I think she was
the portal to it happening.
Speaker 4: Poltic guys tend to hang around to Ticu people rather
than particular locations, you know. But it's what's interesting about
the story is that on one level, it could be
like the stone stone tape type ghosts, which its intends
to signing. I like just walk ald pasts and if
buildings change and walls are built and someone knocked down,
it'll still continue to walk the way it did the
for a the In other words, that's why they go
through walls and things like that. The thing about the
stone tape ghosts is they are literally just like an image.
They're an image like the Roman soldiers the guy saw
in the cell, a very famous case from York. They
didn't they were just images. There were just like a
three dimensional projection, a hologram. They didn't notice the man there,
They didn't notice anything in their surroundings. Yet this person did,
I mean, this particular image actually did acknowledge the leap
of the people there, which indicates that's not a stone
tape ghost, even though it share some of the properties
of the stone tape ghosts.
Speaker 1: Yeah, isn't that interesting? I mean, you know, I come
to the conclusion in the book that there are many
different causes of ghosts. I think there are time slips,
like you say, just something replaying over and over again.
I think there are spirits that have actually consciousness. I
think there's also other entities that we call ghosts, but
I think just exist on other levels of reality that
managed to find a way through here. And some of
them are quite scary, other seem perfectly benevolent. So yeah,
I think there's we say a ghost, but actually there's
multi levels to what it ghost is. And I certainly
don't think people are always saying seeing the same course,
and I think very often you can get different things
coming together. So yeah, I mean when we say ghosts
and I try to separate this out in the book,
there's many different expressions of that, and they're not all
scary either. And one thing I really wanted to get
away from was to not just have it as or
another spooky book. Yeah, some of it is unsettling, it's true,
but a lot of it's beautiful. People that have met
relatives or had conversations or friends who've just died. Only
the person seeing and didn't know they just died, and
it's like they were coming to say goodbye someone. That's
really lovely. Some of it's funny. So you know, we've
got stuck in the groove of all it's all dark, spooky,
ghostly stuff, and that's not really the story. I think
more often than not, it actually it's more mundane than that,
or just easier than that, And that's something I really
wanted to reflect in the book.
Speaker 4: You know that some of these phenomena that we talk
about are alarming, and they're worrying and frightening, and sometimes
they can be harmful and we know that. But you
know what, if someone I don't know how you guys
feel about this, I predictable agree with me if someone said, well,
we would you like to live in a world where
this sort of weird stuff never happened and it just
didn't exist? Because we could live in a world like that. Indeed,
the skeptics do believe that's the world we live in.
Speaker 5: And it'd be boring though, wouldn't they.
Speaker 4: Yeah, if someone gave an opportunity, would you rather live
in this world where this stuff does happen.
Speaker 3: What's and all? Or would you live in a world
where it doesn't? I would choose to form every time.
Speaker 1: But that comes back to what But that comes back
to what we were saying earlier, wasn't it, which is
a lot of people don't want to believe that that
is the world they live in. That is why they deny.
As people in my family who I think really know
there is something to it, but they don't really want
to hear that. They don't want to hear my weird
stuff because it unsettles them too much to think that
it could be real. So I think that comes into
it quite a lot.
Speaker 4: Indeed, Yeah, I'm sorry to back again. I know you
guys want to the other guys want to say something.
But that ties in so much to when we did
our little obituary to James Randy and when we when
he died, we did a two videos about it, and
we said that this is in some cases it could
be subconscious in which we fool ourselves.
Speaker 3: In the case of Randy and several other people.
Speaker 4: I believe they are actually literally lying because they're scared.
Speaker 3: Of what would happen to people if too many people
start believing this stuff.
Speaker 4: So in other words, it's it's kind of almost a
parallel to the UFO cover up. I'll say, well, we
have to keep these things silent because they'll be social
chaos or the oil companies will fall, et.
Speaker 3: Cetera, et cetera. Yeah, did anybody ever see the ghost.
Speaker 1: Of James Randy?
Speaker 3: That'd be interesting that I was dry if he's going
to come back, right. Well, I think about ghosts is
the fact that you know, you've got like the different
classifications of them. You've got ones that interact with people
that seem to be the relatives of people, the spirits
of departed souls, if you like. And then you've got
these ones that just don't interact with anyone. They're just
going about their daily task, repeating actions, and are sited
over centuries. And then you've got other ones that seem
to sort of like come and go with some sort
of I don't know. They're stuck in in some area
and they don't know anyone, but they're sort of stuck.
But they're perceived in different ways. The man in Hong
Kong see saw this glowing kind of figure of light.
Other people see these ghosts very very clearly, except from
the knees down there missing, and other people see them
as glowing kind of orbs or something. And yet we're
all classifying them as ghosts.
Speaker 1: But I think.
Speaker 3: It's maybe the analogy that I can best give is
that if we think of images that we today access
and we accept that they're all on different things. So
for instance, some years ago, we would start off video
recording onto tape, and we'd have the HS tapes that
we'd put in our VHS machines, and you'd have to
us to track him because you get a cracky little
bit of picture at the bottom and you get this
drop out and tape crease, and so the image would
distort a little bit until it's stabilized. And then later
on we start to get DVDs where you could pause.
Speaker 1: Images or you could zoom in on images.
Speaker 3: And these days you've got over the Internet, you've got
these things called gifts, which is like graphic short animations
of people, short clips that replay and replay and replay.
And I think that you know, if you talk someone
from the Middle Ages, they would all say that they
are spirits, but they're all kind of doing different things.
That it's because we understand the media that's presenting those images.
We understand TV broadcasts, we understand DVDs and VHS tapes
and pixels on a computer. We can interpret them in
our own age of technology. And so I think that
what's happening is with these ghosts, we're trying and interpret
them and we're leave it in all those ghosts. But
in fact, they're all kind of different what I would
call different media ghosts and through on the different kind
of structures of reality. It's all about the leaks in reality.
There was a spirit guide called Seth who used to
channel through Jane Robbers, and he said a similar thing.
He never said they were leaks, but he said all
systems are not closed. So one reality parked next to
another reality next to another reality.
Speaker 1: You can go through them.
Speaker 3: That there's holes between them if you like, you know,
and so therefore this is why we do get leaks
in the machine as such, where we're seeing things that
shouldn't be in our reality, and vice versa. From what
he said, we are sometimes seen as ghosts on other
level of reality. Yet here we are as flesh and
blood creatures, but we're appearing as spirits on some other
level of reality. It could be the same for people
like having out of body experiences, which you also talk
about in your book.
Speaker 1: Yeah, and then that's as the book goes on. What
I try very much to do is to say, right,
there's this phenomenon, there's there's this look underneath it, and
you find they are all linked and outer body experiences
are happening, for instance, to so many people who've got
no idea even what that is till it happens to them.
And it's really common. I mean, i'd say it's about
one in ten people have had something like that. I
know there are certain medical causes for certain experiences. Some
of this you just know that can't explain it. Consciousness
clearly can be projected. We know about various remote viewing
programs that the US military is doing. Enough, we are
not just the flesh and blood. We have some separate existence,
but equally that's where it all links up with all
these other realms. I mean, how often all the scientists
tell you that that reality is multi dimensional? Well, okay,
what's living there? Then it is just layers and sometimes
they merge and what we call ghosts aliens sometimes and
a lot of UFO researchers now think consciousness plays a
much bigger role there than just nuts and bolts and
little gray organic b and angels, even which gets a
bit of an exploration without religious connotation as such, because
in the end, they are entities that are coming and going,
and I think they are all linked. And when you
start to see the bigger picture, and you know, hopefully
the book leads you to that, as you go through it,
you get a whole new view of what reality is
and you realize, okay, it isn't the a to be
mundanity that perhaps we thought, well, we didn't think it was,
but most people out there but is what they're taught.
And if you're taught that over and over again, you're
not going to ever sort of come into contact with
it unless something happens to you or somebody you know
and you trust and love says it happened to them,
And that's often when the facade begins to crumble away.
Speaker 5: Mandy. If we take the idea that sometimes we don't
know who the ghost is, so people, let's say in
the modern times now, come across and they see a
ghost like in a vintage outfit with it's Victorian Middle
Ages whatever, and we don't know whether we're seeing the
ghost or they're seeing us as ghosts. We're seeing them
in vintage clothing, presumably they will be seeing us in
our modern clothing, but to us it would be kind
of current clothing. That would kind of indicate that if
that was the case, shouldn't there be cases where we're
the ghosts of people in the future, And shouldn't there
be people seeing people in futuristic clothing and they're looking
back on us in the same way that we're looking
back at medieval people and thinking that we've got old
fashioned clothing. So the question is have you encountered that
at all? Or could it be the case that when
people are seeing aliens they're actually seeing some version of
the future.
Speaker 1: I was just going to say that, because I mean
a lot of people now think that maybe not all,
but some UFO encounters and the beings that they meet
are actually us from the future, or at least beings
from the future, So that may well be already happening
now when you raise a really good point there though,
as well, which is that why aren't ghosts snakes And
a number of people have raised it, and I talk
about this in the book. Why is it that they
tend to even though they're in the spirit world, they
retain the clothes that you know they had from those times.
And actually, I think there's a reason for that, and
it kind of goes back a bit to stone tape
theory that whereas I think we psychically imprint on things,
anybody can you can see dowsers do this at ours
that can create an energy point that other people that
never saw them do it can come in and find
it's like intent. Imprinting of the mind creates something that
bonds together, and people will often bond closely with things
and ghosts are often coming back attached, and again we're
back to that idea of portals, either to a place
that was once special to them or an object, and
sometimes objects can often be linked to a ghost, even
though the objects then be moved out of its original place.
And there's an example in the Book of the Bed
where the boy's grandfather dad died, and he died in
that bed, and they thought, well, we don't want to
waste the bed, and they put the bed into the
boys room as an extra bed for his friends to
lie in, and he was so terrified when just a
few days later he actually saw the image of his
dead grandfather lying on the bed. And then his mother
came in and she screamed because she saw exactly the
same thing. So, in other words, whether that was just
a visual apparition, some kind of auric residue, or an
actual spirit, we don't know. But it was attached to
that bed, and they moved it out and that form
was not seen in there again, So these are interesting things.
So I think the spirits and the clothes I'm imagining
is because in the end we imprint on those clothes,
so you see not just the spirit in a time
slip scenario. Of course, well, you're just seeing through time.
But if it is a conscious spirit that seems to
acknowledge people still you see the clothes, and I think
it's because there is an attached there. So I think
that says a lot about the psychic world and the
material world, that in the end they bond together in
some way.
Speaker 5: There's something else I could kind of add to that.
In the Matrix movie, Morpheus talks about the residual self
in terms of kind of like a holographic projective projection
of the residual self. In essence, when people see kind
of like spirit orbs. I believe that to be the
essence of the soul because in our human form, with
two eyes, two ears, mouth, fingers, everything that we've got
biologically is because we need it physically on this physical Earth. However,
when your soul goes over to spirit world and whatever
that may be, you don't really need eyes or hair,
or ears or fingers or fingernails or toes or heart
or lungs. You don't need those things. Those are only
needed for living on planet Earth. So I think when
a soul is projecting themselves for earthly humans to see
in ghost form, they are projecting a version of their
former selves in a holographic reality, so the person viewing
it has some kind of reference to what they're seeing,
because if they show themselves in their purest form, I
think it literally would just be orbs. And I think
maybe some orbs don't project the full human form because
either they can't be bothered, or they don't want to,
or they're just quite happy being in their orb form
without necessarily a holographic manifestation. I don't know if you well, I.
Speaker 1: Mean, what's interesting there is? I mean, and I think
you're probably right on some occasions. That makes the presumption
that the spirit the apparition is projecting that form for us,
whereas it might well be that we shape that energy
into the form we rideless and that it's coming from
that way, And there is a lot of evidence of that,
and some people are found also with UFOs, and some
people think they are actually beings in their own right,
that it will shape into what people expect to see,
and not everybody in the same place is the same thing,
So I think we also might be shaping it. And
if there is a spirit and that orb or whatever,
it's the purest form. But you create what you know,
what you feel on some psychic level, you know that
represented originally to you, rather than them just you know,
projecting it. So yeah, it's really the whole area is
so fascinating, and that's why I think this is just
such a good thing to talk about, and people don't
talk about it. Another thing that's kind of related to
that is when you look at the amount of ghosts
that gets seen, the vast majority of them are either
from people who recently passed or Victorian drest ghosts. We
all know people they don't know what a time period
is nine times out of ten, so that could mean
anything over a period of several hundred years. But it
is true, although you do get them, you get far
less a Roman ghosts. There are some Roman stores or
is in the movement, they're much less, much less, far
less Saxons or tribal people from around the world. It's funny.
It tends to be the fact that a ghost, in
terms of a spirit, it kind of runs out of
energy in the end. And again with stone tape theory,
maybe like the electromagnetism, whatever it is that maintains the
apparition to us, it kind of winds down after a while,
but somebody or something or the disturbance of something and
re energize the battery power, and suddenly it comes back
for a brief while. But it is interesting ghosts do
fade out, it would seem in the due course.
Speaker 5: I'll und knowing why this atrophy exists, because it is
a valid question. It comes from skeptics. Sometimes skeptics do
have a good point. Why are there no caveman ghosts?
Why are they're no Bronze age ghosts? And the atrophy,
the energetic atrophy is the only explanation I can think
of that.
Speaker 1: Yeah, it makes a lot of sense. Yeah.
Speaker 4: And on the subject of time travel, it's interesting of
humans from the I mean, this is quite a It
is a fashional idea in uthology right now. There are
some problems with it though, so for example, when it
comes to time travel, it is actually possible to travel
into the future you under Einstein's.
Speaker 3: Laws of special relativity.
Speaker 4: There's even a man who's done it, the guy called
Valerie Polyakakoff Vary Polycof. He was actually an astronaut on
the Mere space station. He spent thirteen months and he
actually traveled one point seven milliseconds in the future, because
you've spent he was going around the Earth at seventeen
thousand miles an hour all that time. If you go fast,
you're going into the future. If you could have faster spacecraft,
you'll go further into the future. The problem is when
it comes to going back, going back to the past.
Now personally, the problem is that's actually not really possible
because where are you actually going to And once you
get once you get into the realms of going to
the past, you get time travel paradoxes and things like that.
So you see these humans from the future and can't
where are they coming from? In other words, they're coming
from a place that doesn't exist, because you know, we
could easily, if we could easily become like extinct or something,
and we would never become these things from the future.
Speaker 3: Indeed, we could.
Speaker 4: Even do something while they're visiting us that that makes
us become extinct, and therefore they wouldn't exist. So you
get this paradox, You get this loop of paradox. So
how could they exist.
Speaker 3: If we stop them existing?
Speaker 1: Things like that.
Speaker 3: There's many many other examples.
Speaker 5: I could give.
Speaker 1: One way around, though, is to say that every toe
you just say you can travel in time, let's say
you can. Every time you do it, you're actually creating
yet another parallel reality. You're basically splitting off into multi
dimension and a number of scientists have discussed that, which
means that there is no one direction in time. Yes,
those beings might have come from one of those paths,
but the very act of moving back, they've come out
of that path, They've created a whole new one. They
probably can never go back to that original path. But
I mean, obviously this is all speculation, but it would
explain so much what makes sense. That will make more
sense how it is us rather than literally being travel, well,
it was a time travel and that's kind of loaded,
you know what I mean. I think if you just
say that the universe is torn to bits basically, and
it's full of holes and things don't run from A
to be, you go, all right, that makes so much sense.
You know, we're trying to make sense of it again,
in that A to B they came from there to hear.
I don't think it works like that. I think it
is so tangled and multi layered and mobia stripped black.
I just think that we as yet we can't fully
comprehend it. So it isn't going to fully make sense
to us, but maybe to somebody out there somewhere it does,
but I don't think we're at that level of understanding it.
Speaker 4: Yeah, yeah, that would actually sold a lot of those
paradoxes if we if accept it.
Speaker 3: It's like it's more parallel universe than literal try and travel.
Speaker 1: Yeah.
Speaker 5: I mean even a load of channels, including Bishah, probably
loads of others as well, talk about many, many, many
different almost infinite kind of dimensions and realities and things
going on all at the same time, and our consciousnesses
are really kind of just choosing which reality we wish
to experience. There's quite a few This.
Speaker 4: Was fair for example in fiction, for example the Batch
of the Future movie where the Martin McFly character he
goes back into the past when his parents are children,
and it's this it's an interesting, interesting idea. But then
he never does go back to the future. He can't
go back to the future. What he does is he
goes to a completely different world where his father is
a very he's because he takes on the school bully
when he's a kid. He's a strong and more confident man,
so he's more successful. He used to he was a
struggling writer, but in this new world he's a successful novelist.
Speaker 1: I mean, if we're going to go to the Back
of the Future film for we could be here, all
they do make the slightest sense. It doesn't really add up.
I tellly one book that really explains it well though,
how it could work.
Speaker 5: That it is.
Speaker 1: And I don't generally like sequels written by other people,
but okay, Stephen Baxter, well known sci fi right, wrote
a sequel to H. G. Wells is The Time Machine,
and it's called The Time Ships, and I really recommend it.
It's brilliant and I actually think it's better than the
original book. And it gets into this, every time you
shift in time, you're just creating a whole new history basically,
and they realized they can't actually ever get back to
the first point and they started from because of the
minute you do that you've already changed. And it explores
it really well. Back to the Future. I love the films.
I really think they're fantastic, But actually there's so many
things that, even in the time paradox world, really make
no sense at all. But hey, isn't it fun? I
mean hate she wells himself as well.
Speaker 4: It was a very sinister figure, I think, you know,
but he was still very clever, and so I'll be nxorry.
I did read The Time Machines quite short and novella,
so i'd be interested.
Speaker 1: To do Yeah, read back to the sequels. It's really good.
Speaker 3: We got fifteen minutes before we close the show, so
it would be nice if we talked a little bit
about the UFO side of things that you also cover
in your book. And I presume that you've interviewed lots
of people or they quietly had a word in your ear.
Is that I've seen something called met something and standing
cases of UFOs or even beings that might be associated
with them for you were andy, Yeah.
Speaker 1: I mean so one of the points the book is
making is I'm not saying these are the biggest, best,
most famous cases. I'm putting all the sides saying this
is what's happening to normal people all the time. And
in a way, it's that mundane repetition of I saw
this that happened to me that becomes important. As a
book goes on, you realize, okay, shit, this really this
means something. It doesn't have to be a big famous case.
This is happening all the time somewhere to somebody. And
I've met two people that said, for instance, they witnessed
the UFOs coming up from beneath the sea. And one was,
and this was while it was still being active, was
at Dungeons Nuclear Power Station, and they said they were
all aware that something was out there basically monitoring what
they were doing. They were all ordered not to say
anything about it, of course, And funnily enough, I then
completely independently met somebody else whose husband had in that
same area around Kent, had also witnessed things coming up
from beneath the sea. And of course now that it
is now a big topic of conversations USOS, you know,
stuff's going in and out in the sea as much
as it is going up into outer space, so you
like things like that going on. And then you've got
classic cases of dancing objects and things doing things that
you know, as far as we know, nobody ever could
have done when this happened. Some of these go back
several decades, some are more contemporary. But again I've also
met people who were present in the military in air
traffic control rooms, who all said they were all present.
It's like the classic Close Encounters of the third kind
scene where the guys reporting the UFO you see them
all around the radar images and all that, and then
they say do you want to officially report that? And
he goes silent and says no, I don't wish to
report a UFO. So I've heard that from real life,
but with another twist, which is often they did report them.
The pilots would say yes, I've seen this incredible thing
and they but then all taken aside and said, you
will never speak to anyone about this. This does not
go in any record book. It's not recorded. This didn't happen,
did it. And I've heard that from many people. So
intimidation and cover up as we know, but it's interesting
to hear it first hand. Goes back a long way.
And then of course, you know, as people retire and
life goes on, they think, hey, what's the problem I'm
going to tell people? But I think there's a lot
more of that than we have known for a very
long time, and it's now blindingly obvious there's a huge
cover up. Whatever the truth that the whole UAP thing
is but yeah, so many people just see them in
the balls of light. Now, as you mentioned early with orbs,
are they spirits? Is it alien? What is it? And
I've seen the balls of light myself over cross circles
and you just go, it's all related somewhere down the line.
And when you look at the work of people like
Nick Hayes, who gave a really interesting talker the glacesterbris
and POSM a few weeks ago, biological UFOs, some of
this stuff up there, I think they are life forms
in their own right. They're not just to craft housing
something else. The stuff coming and going all the time
that we're trying to label with these really easy labels. Now,
I don't think it's like that. And a lot of
people have been looking infrared images and discovering the stuff
up there all the time basically, and it's shifting and
it's moving. And I think if we actually could see
what was above our heads all the time, yeah, I
think half the population probably would go completely mental.
Speaker 5: But and the is have you heard of the history
of night vision.
Speaker 1: I've heard of it. I'm no expert on it.
Speaker 5: Oh this is this is mentor I swear this is.
You could look into this. So night vision has been
kind of like they started actually looking at it in
the early nineteen hundred to believe it or not even
I think during the second First World War, but certainly
in the Second World War night vision was a thing.
The Germans had it, I believe their allies had it
as well, huge great, massive scopes on rifles. Here's where
it gets paranormal. In the Vietnam War they were experimenting
the US side were experimenting with different types of night
vision and the colors used and how they were used.
So they were looking at night vision in red, in green,
and blue and yellow. They kind of settled on green.
Here's the weird thing. Helicopter gunship pilots were using red
night vision and they were seeing and I'm not making
this up, demons with big flapping flying wings flying around everywhere.
And they were unloading and they weren't high. They weren't
on LSD or cocaine or heroin or anything like that,
because drugs were quite prolific in the Vietnam War. But
and you can you can look this one up. And
they were unloading kind of miniguns on things that weren't there.
They could see it with the red night vision, nobody
else could see it. So they switched to green, which
is what we use at the moment, and they found
that the demons disappeared, the flying demons disappeared, but what
took their place was weird UFO type things in the sky,
kind of like little objects that shouldn't be there. And
they kind of like came as a conclusion that actually
the UFOs and the little lights in the sky are
less of a problem than big flapping demons with red.
Because the thing is, with night vision, you would think
that red would be the logical color to use. And
the reason for that is that in the army, and
I was, I was in cadets many many many years ago,
you would use a red torch because it's less harsh
on your night vision. It preserves your night vision. So
if you see a flash of red light or so
much times of red light, your eyes kind of just
very very quickly and easily to get back into kind
of like the darkness. Whereas any other color someone flashes
in white or yellow or green or blue light in
your eyes, it's dazzling and it's going to take your
pupils a lot longer to kind of adjust to the darkness,
whereas red doesn't do it. It's about preserving your night vision.
So night vision scopes should be red, but they're not.
They're green. And this is the reason.
Speaker 1: Well, yes, you don't want too many people seeing demons,
do you, so I can see why they're switched.
Speaker 5: Yeah. Yeah, there's articles on it. I mean, it sounds
bizarre and anyone can have a look into it. There's
articles on it, and this is what they found. They
found what they described as demons flying around. It's it's
just bizarre.
Speaker 4: That's very odd. I mean, I hadn't heard that one before.
And I mean it's almost as if there's some kind
of color filter on our perception where we see different
things depending on what color was seeing there, because obviously
the sensor itself is using the same wavelengths regardless of
whether it's green already in the display. So it's all
of the different colors we look at them through make
us see different elements of reality.
Speaker 3: It's very interesting. That isn't remind you look bit seances
where in physical manifestations of siances, for instance Helen Duncan
and also with William Crooks and the medium who was
I forget the young medium he was working with, but
she was producing the materializations of Katie King. In all
those instances, they would illuminate the seance room with an
infrared lamp in safety reads because apparently if you did
it in normal daylight, these spirits would automatically de materialize
from their ectoplasmic forms and the ectoplasm would go rushing
back into medium and harm them or in some cases
it's really been quite life threatening to them.
Speaker 1: And Alex's okay, so she died.
Speaker 3: So the infrared light was there to enable the spirits
to safely walk around the room and be seen by
people in the rooms as well. So it's interesting that
that particular wavelength of light was allowable to see these spirits.
But it makes you wonder what these night visions and things,
other spectral creatures and things seem to be habiting other
other realities or something. You just need to see it
in the right wavelength. Literally, this is it.
Speaker 5: It could be. It could be a frequency thing, because
I'm not an expert on how night vision works, but
from what I understand, it uses radiation and photons, and
it takes lights and photons within the system kind of
amplify it. And that's why you see it. But it
could be the difference between red green blue, could be
using different frequencies. I've actually found, as we were talking,
a number of different articles on it, and I've dropped
it in chat so you can have a look at it,
and I would ask people to use their own Discernment
is probably the right word in looking at these things.
But it is bizarre. It's just bizarre.
Speaker 1: Okay.
Speaker 3: I think we're coming to the end of the paranormal
peep show now, so Andy Thomas, thank you very much
for joining us. Any final words on the paranorm what
you could sum up maybe in a paragraph or something,
especially about your book, as of course.
Speaker 1: I mean, it's happening, and I think we need to
kind of all grow up now, not us, but the world,
and just to accept there is such a thing as
the paranormal. It's not all easily explicable. So let's hear
people's stories and let's encourage people to speak out, because
I think when we do that, we're going to get
a whole other version of the world that we just
don't hear about enough. So listen, if you know all
about this kind of stuff, you're still going to find
a book Strange really helpful because ninety five percent of
it is brand new material and it's then woven in
with the bigger picture. And if you slightly new to it,
I mean, this is a good starting point to get
those conversations going. I mean, if you want to find
out about me and what I do, have a look
at my website, which is truth gender dot org, truththagender
dot org. And there's a whole page there about Strange
and where you can find it and what's in the book.
And you'll find a book easily enough in all the
usual places where you can buy books. Excellent.
Speaker 3: All right, Well, thank you very much for indeed for joining.
It's been a very fascinating discussion of all things UFOs,
u AP's ghosts, night vision, and all sorts of things
beyond that. Any final words, Andy and Bin, I.
Speaker 5: Think we've covered everything.
Speaker 4: I can't think of anything off the top of the
head right now, but just want to say thank you
to Andy T for being a really interesting guest. I've
we've spoken many times before and it's good to talk
to you again.
Speaker 5: And I could say that all the things the way
is absolutely fascinating. Hopefully, and if you'll write many more
different books, and actually, Andy t I'm going to ask
ask you to stay on a little bit because I'm
actually in the middle of dealing with somebody who's got
some quite freaky UFO stuff going on, so it might
be good to see if you can kind of the
bottom of it's it's bizarre, but we'll talk about that
off camera and see where that goes.
Speaker 3: Suy okay, thanks for joining us on the Paranormal Peep Show.
Join us again next month. We are Andy, Neil Ben
and Andy again on the Paranormal pep Show on the
Paranormal UK Radio Network.
Speaker 1: Good Night,