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Speaker 1: Hello everyone. My name is Stephanie Wilder Taylor and welcome

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to my podcast Drunkish. A little over a year ago,

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I published a book called Drunkish, where I told my

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own story about quitting drinking. But now I have a

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podcast because I want to hear from other people about

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quitting drinking and drugs and other stuff. So, whether you're sober,

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you're sober curious, or you just like hearing stories about

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winos and addicts, welcome.

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Speaker 2: And before we.

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Speaker 1: Get to today's guest, please follow the show on your podcast,

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thing that you use or like or subscribe. Please just

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support the show. It will help me grow. And now

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my guest today is Alison Rosen. You may know her

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from her super popular, long running podcast called Alison Rosen

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is Your New Best Friend, which I have been a

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guest on several times.

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Speaker 2: She also has.

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Speaker 1: A really cool substack which has over two thousand subscribers,

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and you can find that at allisonrosendot substack dot com,

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where she talks about tons of stuff, including her four

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years as the newsgirl on the Adam Carolla Show. Also

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check out her podcast Childish with another past guest on

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this show, Greg Fitzsimmons. But right now we're talking to Alison.

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Speaker 2: Well. Hello, Alison, welcome to Drunkish. Hello, thank you for

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having me.

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Speaker 1: Stephanie Well, no, thank you for coming on here. I've

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been chasing you.

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Speaker 2: I have.

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Speaker 3: I'm usually not someone who plays hard to get guest wise,

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my life has been crazy recently. Not to spend too

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much time talking about it because it is depressing, but

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my mom passed away in December kind of suddenly, and

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my dad had died a year and a half four

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So my whole life for the last six months has

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or actually five months. I was been thinking of it

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as six months, but it's five months. Has just been

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settling the estate, which is like a full time job.

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Someone had said that to me, it's like forty hours

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of work a week, and I thought it can't be,

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but it is.

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Speaker 2: So that's in my life.

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Speaker 3: So apologies for how long it took to get me here.

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Speaker 2: I am and I'm yours.

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Speaker 1: Yes, and I remember because I have done your podcast

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several times. You've done my podcast. We have a I

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don't want to say a storied history, but so my

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podcast for Crying Out Loud with Lynette Corolla. You were

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the newsgirl for Lynette's ex husband Adam Carolla's podcast for

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many years, many years, eight years, right, four four years?

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Four years?

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Speaker 3: Yea, it sometimes felt like eight, but it was four. Yeah,

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But then, how long have you been on your own?

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So I went my separate ways from them in uh,

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December twenty fourteen, so I would say I started on

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my own like the very it was like Christmas, Christmas time,

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or like December twenty ninth or something is when it

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all went down. So since January of twenty fifteen, God,

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it's been ten years.

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Speaker 2: I was gonna say, that, isn't there razy? Yeah? Time

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it flies.

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Speaker 3: Time is so confusing though, because in some ways things

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that were ten years ago feel like yesterday. But then

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I've had two children since then, and they're eight and

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six now. And then when I think back to when

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Elliott was one, you know, that feels like a long

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time ago. So it feels just did.

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Speaker 1: And I remember when you first came and did for

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crying out loud many years ago, when you were kind

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of new on Adam's podcast and you had even I

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think you were just dating Daniel, your Husbandly you guys

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were just dating, because I remember relating to you about

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kind of anxious attachment like you were having some anxiety

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about like, I.

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Speaker 2: Don't know, is this guy too nice? Do you remember that? No?

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Speaker 3: Not, I don't specific I'm trying to remember that appearance.

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It will come to me. I don't specifically remember that.

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Speaker 1: However, very early in your yeah, life's journey.

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Speaker 2: Right, I know.

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Speaker 3: Well, so I had always, always, always been unlucky in love.

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Speaker 2: I had not had a lot of relationships.

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Speaker 3: I was always infatuated or obsessed with a guy.

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Speaker 2: I would go on a couple you know.

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Speaker 3: The minute I liked someone, then it was you know,

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I was obsessed with them. And every conversation I had

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with my friends, I'm paining myself in such an unflattering light.

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Speaker 2: Well, hey, it's drunkish, you know what I mean. Every

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conversation I had with my friends was like and then

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he said this, and then I said this, and then

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he said this. What do you think it means? You know? Uh,

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it was just all about.

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Speaker 3: Trying to convince myself that this person wasn't losing interest

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in me. And then with Daniel, things were just so different.

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It was just so easy from the beginning. So maybe

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I was questioning that, Oh.

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Speaker 1: You were definitely questioning it, and I was I remember

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relating to about sort of like my husband because I

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am similar to you.

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Speaker 2: Is that I do you feel like that's all.

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Speaker 1: Part of addiction, anxiety, OCD, some kind of brain fixation. Well,

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I have a similar I'm very similar.

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Speaker 2: Yeah.

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Speaker 3: I mean I definitely have an addictive personality and I

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can be really compulsive with the behaviors and things like that,

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which I do think has gotten better, you know, over

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the years. But for me, I think it was a

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lack of self esteem. It was a lack of any

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sense as relates to men, a lack of any sense

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that like I have value, Like I'm someone that people

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would want to be their girlfriend and that people like,

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and that I can say, hey, I don't like how

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that makes me feel. I would like to be with

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someone who makes me feel better. Those kind of that

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way of thinking, those kind of thoughts were probably like

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gently introduced by my first therapist, and it was like

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you're speaking another language to me, Like I had never

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seen that modeled in my home, and I'm sure that

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I had heard friends speak like that, but they were

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you know, cute, hot, perky blonde girls, and I was

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this chunky, awkward, like nerdy, frizzy haired girl who didn't

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fit in, who desperately wanted to be.

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Speaker 2: Liked desperately What was your home life like?

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Speaker 3: So it was confusing in a lot of ways. I

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would I'm gonna answer this in a roundabout way. I

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would find myself relating to people that had a really

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rough home life and absent father, parents divorced, you know,

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I would bond with them over like we both are

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making these poor decisions with men. But the weird thing

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is I had quote unquote the perfect parents. I had

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perfect parents who had been together for many, many years.

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So why was I also like that? And then I decided, Oh,

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it must be because I spent most of my life

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as a young person overweight.

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Speaker 2: Maybe that's what it is.

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Speaker 3: That's why I'd never developed this like sense of self

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or sense of self esteem.

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Speaker 2: And as I've gotten older, I understand a little more.

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But like, so you said you were heavy when you

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were a kid, like like, oh.

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Speaker 3: For real or that's just how you felt? No, for real,

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I was the fat kid. I was like the pediatrician. Well,

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it's funny because things have changed, you know, so back then,

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I don't I do think things have changed. Back then,

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I was the fat kid. And it was a problem.

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Now I think there are you know, you see more

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body types, and I don't know that it would have

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been I don't know that I would have been like

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the only one who looked like that.

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Speaker 2: I wasn't humongous or anything like that.

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Speaker 3: It's funny, I'm trying to use like a non offensive word,

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and I think I just chose a terrible one.

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Speaker 2: I mean, I was definitely overweight, and.

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Speaker 3: The pediatrician had like recommended to my mom sending me

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to a fat camp, but then my dad didn't want

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me to feel like anything was wrong with me, so

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they didn't do that. I don't think they handled my

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weight well. That being said, I don't really I thought

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a lot about this, Like I don't know the right

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way to handle it, to not make your kid have

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all sorts of complexes, which I did have, Like you know, mo,

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I definitely as much as my dad, on the one hand,

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wanted to give me the message that there's nothing wrong

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with you. You're perfect, like and that was a message

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I got. You're perfect, You're perfect, and if anyone ever

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has an issue with you, that's a them problem, which

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is a little bit not really setting your kid up

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for living in reality like at all but sweet sort

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of nonetheless. So that was one message was you're perfect

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and if anyone says anything bad about you, they're fucked up.

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And I think it was like, you're perfect because you're

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my child, and I'm perfect. You're an extension of me.

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And then on the other hand, I definitely felt like

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my weight is a problem. It is causing my parents anxiety.

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If I don't get it under control, I'm bad. I'm

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good when i'm dieting, I'm good when i'm small, and

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I'm bad when i'm eating, and I'm bad when i'm fat.

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And my dad would periodically pull me aside and be

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like just and I just thought you would want to

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know that you look like you're gaining weight.

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Speaker 2: Oh gosh.

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Speaker 3: Then when I was like thirty, was in my thirties,

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I was living in New York and he said to me,

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He's like, you've got to get the weight off. My

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dad was a doctor. He was a doctor, so he

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had that thing of like the health thing. It's like,

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all like, what can I do to help? I'll do anything.

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And I said, okay, pay for me to join it

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bug in here, pay for me to join a gym

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and pay.

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Speaker 2: For me to go to weight watchers.

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Speaker 3: And they did, and it actually, weirdly it worked because

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I understand that, or rather I didn't work long term,

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but I understand the way like that sounds so cutting

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to have your father say you got to get the

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weight off, but it was, like I think, it was

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like you got to get it off.

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Speaker 2: You can't.

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Speaker 3: This can't be a long term plan for you to

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be carrying this extra weight around because it's not good

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for your health, was where he was coming from. Whether

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one agrees with that or not. By the way, my

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no my therapist is she's like, fathers should never comment

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on their daughter's bodies.

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Speaker 2: Shocked right, Yeah, that's yeah. And I was just so

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used to it.

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Speaker 3: So anyway though, but then I did go to weight

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watchers and I did start going to the gym, and

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I did lose a bunch of weight and I kept

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it off in this real white knuckly way though, like

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I was. I mean, I wasn't binging and purging, and

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I wasn't anorexic, but all the other kinds of disordered

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eating you can have, I was doing all of those.

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Speaker 2: And did you do that for years.

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Speaker 1: When you were young, Like, did you I went on

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a lot of US girls, a lot of US alcoholic

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girlies start out with eating disorders.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, well super typical.

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Speaker 3: Yes, I was engaging in very disordered eating and trying

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to control and a s regarding putting things in my

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body as a form of escape from a very young age.

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Speaker 2: And then when did you start drinking? So I had

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my first drink.

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Speaker 3: I got a friend who lived up the street, and

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she was a very cool and very popular and she

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let in like it was like via her, I sort

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of got a peek into how the other side lives.

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Speaker 2: And so I think we.

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Speaker 3: Sneak beers from her parents and then we like went

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outside and drank them. I don't think that I got

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I didn't get drunk at that point. That was probably

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when I was like, let's say thirteen or fourteen, twelve thirteen, No,

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thirteen or fourteen, And that's when I had my first

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cigarette too. But I remember feeling this like kind of

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almost like a popping sensation in the back of my

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head that I associate with a little bit of a buzz.

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And then I remember reading that when you drink it

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like bet cells, which our brain cell are like being destroyed,

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and I'm like, is that what I'm feeling back there?

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So we would have SIPs of alcohol, and then my

239
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parents had a liquor like liquor cart that was open,

240
00:14:12,360 --> 00:14:16,120
and so on my own I started experimenting with like

241
00:14:16,720 --> 00:14:18,840
I'd take the triple sack and i'd you know, pour

242
00:14:18,840 --> 00:14:21,960
it into a garfield literally a garfield mug and then

243
00:14:22,000 --> 00:14:24,320
pour seven diet seven up into it and try that.

244
00:14:25,799 --> 00:14:29,960
But I don't think I really got drunk drunk that

245
00:14:30,080 --> 00:14:35,000
was most It was really just experimenting. I remember going

246
00:14:35,039 --> 00:14:40,039
to a party when I was fifteen or so and

247
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I didn't really know how to drink, so I took

248
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a can of doctor pepper and poured half of it

249
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out and then filled up the other half with vodka

250
00:14:49,039 --> 00:14:53,960
and was drinking that. But again, I don't recall feeling drunk, Like,

251
00:14:54,039 --> 00:14:59,440
I don't think I started getting drunk until college.

252
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Speaker 2: Okay, college changed everything.

253
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Speaker 3: Yeah, I think, so that's when I started it. Similarly,

254
00:15:04,720 --> 00:15:11,000
like I remember thinking, am I hungover? I guess I

255
00:15:11,000 --> 00:15:12,919
feel a little bit thirsty, And then of course, like

256
00:15:12,960 --> 00:15:15,799
when I you know it hit the age is when

257
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I was living in New York, where I'm like, oh no,

258
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this is what hangover feels like.

259
00:15:18,679 --> 00:15:19,679
Speaker 2: Now I know what it feels like.

260
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Speaker 3: I think young people, many of them, like the way

261
00:15:22,759 --> 00:15:25,720
your body processes that you just don't don't feel drunk.

262
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Speaker 2: So yeah, I started drink.

263
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Speaker 3: I smoked pot a little bit in high school, like

264
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a tiny bit. But college was really a lot of

265
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drinking and a lot of getting high.

266
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Speaker 2: But I don't think I saw it as.

267
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Speaker 3: A problem yet, right What really made me see it

268
00:15:50,080 --> 00:15:55,000
as a problem was the way it affected my interactions

269
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with men. And honestly, if if my interactions with men

270
00:16:00,360 --> 00:16:03,840
were in one pool and my substance use was in another,

271
00:16:04,480 --> 00:16:06,519
I don't think that I would have ever thought the

272
00:16:06,559 --> 00:16:10,360
substances were a problem because for me, it was never like,

273
00:16:10,440 --> 00:16:11,879
oh my god, I can't wait to go out and

274
00:16:11,919 --> 00:16:13,879
get drunk. Oh my god, I can't wait to go

275
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out and do drugs.

276
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Speaker 2: Maybe a little bit.

277
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Speaker 3: It wasn't about it was what started happening was I

278
00:16:24,799 --> 00:16:29,159
was repeatedly making bad decisions where men were concerned.

279
00:16:29,279 --> 00:16:31,120
Speaker 2: And what that looks.

280
00:16:30,879 --> 00:16:34,159
Speaker 3: Like is there'd be a guy that I really liked,

281
00:16:34,200 --> 00:16:37,399
maybe we hooked up. Now I was infatuated with him,

282
00:16:37,840 --> 00:16:41,320
it became clear that he was not interested in what

283
00:16:41,399 --> 00:16:44,799
I was interested in, or he was he ghosted me,

284
00:16:45,159 --> 00:16:47,159
or he you know, was here sometimes here sometimes the

285
00:16:47,240 --> 00:16:50,000
kind of thing where your girlfriends are like, let that

286
00:16:50,039 --> 00:16:53,080
one go. Like he's like like a friend of mine

287
00:16:53,120 --> 00:16:55,240
literally said about a different guy. That's the kind of

288
00:16:55,240 --> 00:16:56,639
guy you have a crush on. That's not the kind

289
00:16:56,679 --> 00:16:58,360
of guy you want to be your boyfriend. I was like,

290
00:16:58,720 --> 00:16:59,559
what book.

291
00:16:59,360 --> 00:17:01,960
Speaker 2: Are you all reading? He has this information?

292
00:17:02,080 --> 00:17:04,279
Speaker 3: Because I to me, I want them all to be

293
00:17:04,319 --> 00:17:06,920
my boyfriend if they're if they joke with me and

294
00:17:06,960 --> 00:17:07,440
flirt with.

295
00:17:07,440 --> 00:17:09,839
Speaker 2: Me, I don't understand. Even if they're married. I want

296
00:17:09,839 --> 00:17:12,440
them to be my boyfriend. Even though I know that's wrong,

297
00:17:12,559 --> 00:17:13,279
I can't help it.

298
00:17:13,319 --> 00:17:19,119
Speaker 3: I'm addicted to male attention. So I would say I'm

299
00:17:19,119 --> 00:17:21,559
not gonna text that guy. I'm not gonna text him

300
00:17:21,599 --> 00:17:25,079
like I as painful. At that point, I'd been around enough.

301
00:17:25,119 --> 00:17:29,640
I know it fucking sucks to say. I'm not gonna

302
00:17:29,960 --> 00:17:33,319
do this anymore, even though I I'm so into this guy.

303
00:17:33,440 --> 00:17:36,920
He like lights me up, but it's just gonna cause

304
00:17:36,920 --> 00:17:40,160
heartache down the line. So I'm gonna steer myself over here,

305
00:17:40,400 --> 00:17:43,079
and I'm gonna focus on my job, and I'm gonna

306
00:17:43,079 --> 00:17:46,079
focus on working out, and I'm gonna focus on whatever

307
00:17:46,160 --> 00:17:49,960
bullshit I was focusing on, and I'm gonna get over him.

308
00:17:50,799 --> 00:17:55,240
I would make that announcement to myself, to my sister

309
00:17:55,240 --> 00:17:58,359
who I lived with at the time, to my friends therapist,

310
00:17:58,400 --> 00:18:01,920
probably over and over and over, and then I would

311
00:18:01,960 --> 00:18:04,599
have a drink and then I would text the guy

312
00:18:04,920 --> 00:18:06,599
and then maybe I'll go home with him, or maybe

313
00:18:06,599 --> 00:18:08,880
I would just sit there looking at my phone all night.

314
00:18:09,960 --> 00:18:12,200
And that happened over and over and over and over.

315
00:18:12,759 --> 00:18:16,680
And it was always because I had a drink, Like

316
00:18:16,720 --> 00:18:20,119
I don't. I really never thought my drinking itself was problematic,

317
00:18:20,400 --> 00:18:24,640
but it was this constellation of behavior. But also I

318
00:18:24,839 --> 00:18:30,000
was a real lightweight, so was I was like a

319
00:18:30,400 --> 00:18:33,480
embarrassing sloppy drunk. I was constantly throwing up.

320
00:18:35,079 --> 00:18:35,640
Speaker 2: I just.

321
00:18:37,920 --> 00:18:40,640
Speaker 3: I remember this in college, like sitting This is like

322
00:18:40,680 --> 00:18:42,279
the second or third party we were at. I was

323
00:18:42,319 --> 00:18:44,839
sitting on an automan or something like trying to sit

324
00:18:44,920 --> 00:18:47,400
up straight, like my eyes were crossing, and this guy

325
00:18:47,400 --> 00:18:49,079
that I liked was there, and I remember thinking like,

326
00:18:50,119 --> 00:18:51,880
I wonder if he can tell I'm drunk, Like I

327
00:18:51,920 --> 00:18:58,400
couldn't even sit up, you know, I you know, at

328
00:18:58,440 --> 00:19:01,279
a certain point, I was like, easy to drive drunk.

329
00:19:02,440 --> 00:19:05,000
I used to never ever do that, But then I realized, like,

330
00:19:05,880 --> 00:19:08,480
not hard at all, So you know, I was making

331
00:19:08,599 --> 00:19:09,759
stupid decisions.

332
00:19:10,160 --> 00:19:12,680
Speaker 1: I felt like when I was young, I drove drunk

333
00:19:12,759 --> 00:19:17,079
a lot, and uh, I I want to say, like, hey,

334
00:19:17,119 --> 00:19:19,400
the rules weren't as but of course I knew better

335
00:19:19,440 --> 00:19:22,119
than to drive drunk. I'm sure I of course knew,

336
00:19:22,519 --> 00:19:27,160
But I also remember thinking like driving high no way,

337
00:19:27,400 --> 00:19:31,279
like I'm horrible but drunk, yeah, like I'm still fully

338
00:19:31,319 --> 00:19:33,559
in control. Like My thing was that I just never

339
00:19:33,720 --> 00:19:37,279
felt like I was drunk right up until like I

340
00:19:37,359 --> 00:19:40,319
flew up or knew until the next day when I

341
00:19:40,359 --> 00:19:42,440
was really hungover, and then I was like yeah no,

342
00:19:43,440 --> 00:19:46,279
or woke up the next day and didn't remember then.

343
00:19:46,319 --> 00:19:47,920
Speaker 2: I had a lot of those too, But.

344
00:19:48,000 --> 00:19:52,039
Speaker 1: At the time of the night, I don't remember ever

345
00:19:52,160 --> 00:19:53,880
being like, oh my god. I was not a girl

346
00:19:53,960 --> 00:19:55,720
that was like I'm so drunk.

347
00:19:55,880 --> 00:19:56,119
Speaker 3: I was.

348
00:19:56,200 --> 00:19:58,000
Speaker 1: You know, if people were like are you okay, I

349
00:19:58,039 --> 00:19:59,880
was like, wow, why would you even ask me that?

350
00:20:00,359 --> 00:20:00,559
Speaker 2: Right?

351
00:20:00,759 --> 00:20:04,200
Speaker 3: Fine, I justified it. So when I lived in Costa

352
00:20:04,200 --> 00:20:07,160
Mesa after college, there was this bar that we all

353
00:20:07,240 --> 00:20:07,599
hung out.

354
00:20:07,640 --> 00:20:09,440
Speaker 2: I mean, it was a very fun time of life.

355
00:20:10,000 --> 00:20:13,559
And it was I don't know how many blocks from

356
00:20:13,559 --> 00:20:14,200
our apartment.

357
00:20:15,160 --> 00:20:17,519
Speaker 3: You know, it probably took like four minutes to drive there,

358
00:20:17,640 --> 00:20:20,480
so I wasn't going on the freeway or anything, or

359
00:20:20,519 --> 00:20:23,039
maybe five minutes, but it was a short drive. But

360
00:20:23,119 --> 00:20:27,119
I can remember like sitting holding the steering wheel and squinting,

361
00:20:27,279 --> 00:20:33,680
like trying to see straight. I remember driving Shutter Commerce Casino.

362
00:20:34,160 --> 00:20:37,519
I used to go there, drink, play poker, play like

363
00:20:37,559 --> 00:20:39,680
dollar poker with my friend, and then I would drive

364
00:20:39,759 --> 00:20:45,119
home in my Buick Skyhawk that had no AC and

365
00:20:45,160 --> 00:20:47,839
with one eye. I remember covering it, having to cover

366
00:20:47,920 --> 00:20:48,640
one eye.

367
00:20:50,119 --> 00:20:53,000
Speaker 2: It's crazy. Okay, so they're lucky. We're very lucky. So

368
00:20:53,039 --> 00:20:56,079
then you graduate, you finished college, and you is out.

369
00:20:56,119 --> 00:20:58,119
Then you moved to New York. No.

370
00:20:58,240 --> 00:21:01,000
Speaker 3: I finished college. I went back to Orange County, which

371
00:21:01,000 --> 00:21:04,480
is where, excuse me, where i'd grown up, and I

372
00:21:04,599 --> 00:21:05,920
was working for the OC Weekly.

373
00:21:06,119 --> 00:21:06,640
Speaker 2: I was a writer.

374
00:21:07,039 --> 00:21:08,599
Speaker 3: I was working for the OCI Weekly, and I was

375
00:21:08,640 --> 00:21:10,759
playing in a band. And playing in a band was

376
00:21:10,799 --> 00:21:13,599
this thing that like came kind of came out of nowhere.

377
00:21:13,640 --> 00:21:19,400
I'd always been musical and I wrote about music, and

378
00:21:19,440 --> 00:21:22,960
then I met via a mutual friend. I met a

379
00:21:23,000 --> 00:21:25,240
girl at a party and she knew that I had

380
00:21:25,279 --> 00:21:28,519
started playing drums. And she called me like a month

381
00:21:28,599 --> 00:21:31,079
before I graduated, and she said that she had started

382
00:21:31,079 --> 00:21:33,519
playing bass. What I want to get together and jam sometimes?

383
00:21:33,559 --> 00:21:36,039
She wants to put together a band, And I said, like,

384
00:21:36,160 --> 00:21:38,359
that sounds fun, you know, let me just graduate and

385
00:21:38,359 --> 00:21:39,759
then I'll give you a calls. So I called her

386
00:21:39,759 --> 00:21:42,880
that summer and then we got together, and I don't

387
00:21:42,920 --> 00:21:46,000
think I realized that this was ever going to be

388
00:21:46,079 --> 00:21:49,720
a real band. Our singer had been in a band before,

389
00:21:50,359 --> 00:21:53,599
but Yami, that's our bass player, and I don't think

390
00:21:53,640 --> 00:21:54,880
she had ever been in a band.

391
00:21:54,720 --> 00:21:55,000
Speaker 2: Had not.

392
00:21:55,559 --> 00:21:57,559
Speaker 3: And then we would go to this practice space and

393
00:21:57,599 --> 00:22:01,160
we would practice, and then one day she announced, like,

394
00:22:01,200 --> 00:22:05,839
we have a show lined up. What I skipped over

395
00:22:05,920 --> 00:22:08,079
a small part of it, which is I was playing drums.

396
00:22:08,519 --> 00:22:09,279
Speaker 2: I was a beginner.

397
00:22:09,319 --> 00:22:13,599
Speaker 3: I was not a good drum player, and I was fine,

398
00:22:13,640 --> 00:22:19,440
but I wasn't like John Bonham, let's say, by any stretch.

399
00:22:19,839 --> 00:22:21,880
I announced that I was moving to San Francisco because

400
00:22:21,920 --> 00:22:25,720
I thought I was I went to San Francisco, spent

401
00:22:25,799 --> 00:22:27,240
a couple nights in the apartment that I was going

402
00:22:27,279 --> 00:22:30,960
to move into like it was a friend from college's

403
00:22:30,960 --> 00:22:33,880
aunt's apartment. Suddenly, when I was there, I was like,

404
00:22:33,880 --> 00:22:35,359
I don't think this is the right move for me.

405
00:22:35,680 --> 00:22:40,079
So I pulled out of the apartment, came back, went

406
00:22:40,160 --> 00:22:41,799
back to the band and was like, hey, guys, I

407
00:22:41,839 --> 00:22:44,519
didn't move. They had a different drummer at that point,

408
00:22:44,559 --> 00:22:46,480
and he was really good, and they're like, but we

409
00:22:46,559 --> 00:22:48,279
know you play guitar. Do you want to play guitar

410
00:22:48,359 --> 00:22:51,359
in the band? And I said, okay, that was way

411
00:22:51,400 --> 00:22:53,359
more fun. I wasn't stuck behind a thing. I didn't

412
00:22:53,359 --> 00:22:55,839
have to move any equipment. So then I started playing

413
00:22:55,880 --> 00:22:59,799
in the band and working at the OC weekly and

414
00:23:00,160 --> 00:23:01,920
I did that for how many years?

415
00:23:02,960 --> 00:23:03,880
Speaker 2: I guess.

416
00:23:05,079 --> 00:23:08,599
Speaker 3: I a handful of years, maybe like five years have

417
00:23:08,640 --> 00:23:11,000
been five years.

418
00:23:11,680 --> 00:23:13,920
Speaker 2: I know that it. I know that. At one point

419
00:23:14,039 --> 00:23:15,480
I was like, it's crazy.

420
00:23:15,519 --> 00:23:17,640
Speaker 3: This has become like the most steady thing in my

421
00:23:17,720 --> 00:23:20,960
life and I never intended to do this. It created

422
00:23:21,000 --> 00:23:23,519
a little bit of tension because half of the band,

423
00:23:23,920 --> 00:23:26,839
they're professional musicians. They wanted to make it work, like

424
00:23:26,920 --> 00:23:28,599
this is what they wanted to do, and then there

425
00:23:28,720 --> 00:23:30,599
was me who's like, no, I'm a writer.

426
00:23:30,680 --> 00:23:32,440
Speaker 2: I'm just kind of doing this for fun. I don't

427
00:23:32,440 --> 00:23:33,200
know what I'm doing.

428
00:23:33,279 --> 00:23:37,400
Speaker 3: That being said, it was really fun. Right before nine

429
00:23:37,440 --> 00:23:41,559
to eleven, I so September sixth, two thousand and one,

430
00:23:41,640 --> 00:23:43,680
I made the decision I'm going to move to New York.

431
00:23:44,160 --> 00:23:46,039
Speaker 2: And then nine to eleven happened, and I thought, well,

432
00:23:46,079 --> 00:23:51,680
maybe I won't just yet. But then in it's like

433
00:23:51,720 --> 00:23:55,839
I moved from like March through May, like I moved

434
00:23:55,880 --> 00:23:56,400
to New York.

435
00:23:56,480 --> 00:23:58,640
Speaker 3: And by that I mean like I think, I like

436
00:23:58,759 --> 00:24:01,880
went found a place and back got more stuff. So

437
00:24:01,920 --> 00:24:04,000
then I did move in two thousand and two and

438
00:24:04,279 --> 00:24:06,480
was there until twenty ten.

439
00:24:07,440 --> 00:24:11,599
Speaker 1: Because I remember from talking to you on different times

440
00:24:11,640 --> 00:24:15,759
that we've talked New York, you were working as a writer, right, yes,

441
00:24:17,599 --> 00:24:19,720
and that's when you started doing cocaine.

442
00:24:20,279 --> 00:24:25,359
Speaker 2: Yes, So I grew up with the Dare program. Did

443
00:24:25,400 --> 00:24:27,720
you have Dare? Of course we did. Yeah, yeah, yeah,

444
00:24:27,720 --> 00:24:29,160
it were and it worked on me.

445
00:24:29,720 --> 00:24:33,000
Speaker 3: It sets you up for so many situations that don't happen.

446
00:24:33,119 --> 00:24:35,960
Like I was, I did not experience a lot of

447
00:24:36,000 --> 00:24:38,599
peer pressure in my life. I mean maybe I did,

448
00:24:38,599 --> 00:24:40,400
and I'm not aware of it. But this thing where

449
00:24:40,440 --> 00:24:42,400
like people are cornering you, trying to make you do

450
00:24:42,519 --> 00:24:46,319
drugs like that had never really happened to me. That. Okay,

451
00:24:46,319 --> 00:24:48,920
so here's the weird thing, and I will get to

452
00:24:48,920 --> 00:24:51,640
what you're saying. But the entire time I played in

453
00:24:51,680 --> 00:24:55,400
the band, I hadn't literally never seen cocaine.

454
00:24:55,519 --> 00:24:59,039
Speaker 2: I had never seen it. A couple friends of mine

455
00:25:00,200 --> 00:25:02,759
were they were doing it.

456
00:25:02,680 --> 00:25:05,960
Speaker 3: And it really really freaked me out because I had

457
00:25:06,039 --> 00:25:10,599
read that book, the Sweet Valley High Book where Regina

458
00:25:10,640 --> 00:25:12,880
Morrow tries it once and then has a heart attack.

459
00:25:13,400 --> 00:25:15,240
That is what I was afraid of. And like my

460
00:25:15,359 --> 00:25:17,359
dad had had a heart not cocaine and related at all.

461
00:25:17,440 --> 00:25:19,599
My dad had experienced a heart attack, and I was like,

462
00:25:20,000 --> 00:25:21,039
I've lived.

463
00:25:20,839 --> 00:25:23,119
Speaker 2: Through my dad's heart attack. I will not live through yours.

464
00:25:23,160 --> 00:25:25,279
Like you will not do that around me. I was

465
00:25:25,400 --> 00:25:26,640
so incensed.

466
00:25:27,200 --> 00:25:30,279
Speaker 3: I was like appalled and incensed that they would even

467
00:25:30,359 --> 00:25:33,960
think of doing street drugs around me. My god, how

468
00:25:34,079 --> 00:25:36,759
stupid can you be? I was very on my high horse.

469
00:25:37,039 --> 00:25:40,240
Speaker 2: Uh huh, oh god. A friend of mine became kind

470
00:25:40,279 --> 00:25:41,079
of addicted to.

471
00:25:42,960 --> 00:25:46,200
Speaker 3: Valium and he was trying to get valuum and I

472
00:25:46,279 --> 00:25:49,119
was just like, I can't be around you in your life.

473
00:25:49,440 --> 00:25:52,559
You know, I was very It was very clear to

474
00:25:52,599 --> 00:25:55,359
me that like, this is not for me. And then

475
00:25:55,559 --> 00:25:59,440
what a hypocrite I became when I realized that I

476
00:25:59,519 --> 00:26:01,079
enjoyed cooked and would like to get some.

477
00:26:01,480 --> 00:26:03,519
Speaker 2: So yeah, New York was.

478
00:26:06,079 --> 00:26:09,880
Speaker 3: Really where I did the bulk of my experimentation, and

479
00:26:10,640 --> 00:26:14,920
I kind of think experimenting in high school, when most

480
00:26:14,960 --> 00:26:18,720
people do it is maybe better because if you're twenty

481
00:26:18,759 --> 00:26:22,960
seven trying all these things for the first time, there

482
00:26:23,000 --> 00:26:26,640
aren't those guardrails there to prevent you from like going off.

483
00:26:26,920 --> 00:26:28,440
Not that I went off the deep end, but still

484
00:26:28,440 --> 00:26:30,079
I've just thought a lot about what it means that

485
00:26:30,119 --> 00:26:32,319
I was twenty seven and I was like doing all

486
00:26:32,319 --> 00:26:34,039
the teenage experimentation, but.

487
00:26:35,839 --> 00:26:37,720
Speaker 2: Very very afraid of cocaine.

488
00:26:37,720 --> 00:26:42,759
Speaker 3: I had not done anything except for Pott and a

489
00:26:42,839 --> 00:26:46,680
friend of mine was in town for a music festival

490
00:26:47,920 --> 00:26:50,880
and I knew that. I kind of remember when I

491
00:26:50,960 --> 00:26:56,559
discovered that he dabbled in cocaine. He had come to

492
00:26:56,680 --> 00:26:59,160
LA and I was like, very judgmental of him. I

493
00:26:59,160 --> 00:27:01,359
think someone handed him some and I was like, you

494
00:27:01,400 --> 00:27:03,240
will not do that around me. I was very judgmental

495
00:27:03,240 --> 00:27:05,839
about it. And then we were I was out with

496
00:27:06,000 --> 00:27:09,680
him and his friend who I had a crush on,

497
00:27:09,960 --> 00:27:14,480
and I was very drunk, and I think they asked

498
00:27:14,519 --> 00:27:16,799
if I wanted to try it, and I said okay,

499
00:27:16,880 --> 00:27:21,279
And it was these two older guys like treating me

500
00:27:21,799 --> 00:27:24,920
so tenderly. I mean, I think he like, I don't

501
00:27:24,920 --> 00:27:26,480
know if you had held out a key under my nose.

502
00:27:26,480 --> 00:27:27,920
It was like at a club we were watching a

503
00:27:27,920 --> 00:27:32,960
band and he like, you know, okay, now sniff, And

504
00:27:33,519 --> 00:27:37,400
I felt like I glowed. I mean, I think that

505
00:27:37,480 --> 00:27:40,759
I was so scared and maybe what is what I

506
00:27:40,759 --> 00:27:41,400
said last time.

507
00:27:41,480 --> 00:27:42,680
Speaker 2: I was so afraid of it.

508
00:27:42,720 --> 00:27:46,799
Speaker 3: So the fact that I didn't die right away was

509
00:27:47,160 --> 00:27:49,759
the was a bigger rush than the drug, you know,

510
00:27:50,039 --> 00:27:53,480
and so and then I was just like all about it.

511
00:27:54,440 --> 00:28:01,480
I I felt like I had like this, like found

512
00:28:01,480 --> 00:28:03,559
a new room in your house. It was like something

513
00:28:03,640 --> 00:28:07,880
like this. I loved the I loved them, loved the

514
00:28:07,960 --> 00:28:11,880
fellowship in the community around cocaine. I loved the idea

515
00:28:12,440 --> 00:28:16,000
of being somewhere and you guys like there's a little

516
00:28:16,000 --> 00:28:18,039
group of you and you're doing the drug together, and

517
00:28:18,079 --> 00:28:20,319
you're gonna like go into a bathroom together. And then

518
00:28:20,480 --> 00:28:22,039
in the same way that I liked smoking, because you

519
00:28:22,039 --> 00:28:24,759
could like take a smoke break with someone.

520
00:28:24,960 --> 00:28:25,480
Speaker 2: I don't know.

521
00:28:25,519 --> 00:28:29,079
Speaker 1: Money is that I have kind of the opposite thing.

522
00:28:29,319 --> 00:28:31,839
One of the things that really put me off cocaine

523
00:28:31,920 --> 00:28:34,839
was the fact that I always felt excluded because it

524
00:28:34,960 --> 00:28:37,079
was like if I if I got a little bit

525
00:28:37,119 --> 00:28:40,160
of cocaine, but then these I knew, those other people

526
00:28:40,200 --> 00:28:42,559
were going into a bathroom together to do cocaine, and

527
00:28:42,599 --> 00:28:44,160
I was like, huh, how.

528
00:28:44,000 --> 00:28:45,039
Speaker 2: Come I'm not invited?

529
00:28:45,200 --> 00:28:47,480
Speaker 1: Like, yeah, I felt like I always felt paranoid that

530
00:28:47,519 --> 00:28:50,039
people were sneaking around and doing it without me, And

531
00:28:50,079 --> 00:28:54,200
it was such an intense bad feeling of just I

532
00:28:54,759 --> 00:28:57,279
don't understand who those people not like me. They're not

533
00:28:57,359 --> 00:28:59,440
sharing it with me, and now I have to figure

534
00:28:59,440 --> 00:29:01,680
out how to make them like me more.

535
00:29:01,720 --> 00:29:03,480
Speaker 2: It was like it seemed like too much work to

536
00:29:03,519 --> 00:29:03,880
get it.

537
00:29:04,440 --> 00:29:07,599
Speaker 3: Yeah, well that sounds awful. That sounds awful, But you're

538
00:29:08,400 --> 00:29:09,559
so good.

539
00:29:09,440 --> 00:29:12,319
Speaker 2: Are you? I guess?

540
00:29:12,640 --> 00:29:15,920
Speaker 3: Well, honestly, I think I was probably excluded a lot.

541
00:29:16,039 --> 00:29:20,519
I just wasn't dialed into that frequency. I didn't realize

542
00:29:20,559 --> 00:29:24,079
how everywhere it probably was. I mean, it was really

543
00:29:24,160 --> 00:29:26,880
everywhere in New York, right and bars are open. So

544
00:29:27,400 --> 00:29:31,839
once I started dabbling in cocaine. That's when my drinking

545
00:29:31,920 --> 00:29:34,440
also like went through the roof because bars are open

546
00:29:34,519 --> 00:29:37,960
till four am. And at the beginning when I was

547
00:29:38,000 --> 00:29:41,119
just doing a little drinking, like how are you guys

548
00:29:41,599 --> 00:29:44,119
powering through till four How are you not throwing up

549
00:29:44,240 --> 00:29:46,240
or falling asleep? And it's like, oh, because so many

550
00:29:46,279 --> 00:29:49,480
people are doing cocaine, And so then I would like

551
00:29:50,319 --> 00:29:53,640
have I don't know, so many drinks in a night,

552
00:29:55,480 --> 00:29:58,079
and then I would come home and I'd be really

553
00:29:58,559 --> 00:30:00,480
nervous that I was going to have a heart attack

554
00:30:00,960 --> 00:30:05,039
or like I couldn't. I couldn't make peace with what

555
00:30:05,079 --> 00:30:10,960
I had done. I felt I was my parents were

556
00:30:11,000 --> 00:30:14,559
such a big force in my psyche and a big

557
00:30:14,599 --> 00:30:17,240
part of my life, and I knew that if they

558
00:30:17,359 --> 00:30:20,200
knew that I had done cocaine, they would be so

559
00:30:21,000 --> 00:30:25,039
scared and so like I felt like this was like

560
00:30:25,079 --> 00:30:31,920
the ultimate transgression kind of so I think I just

561
00:30:32,079 --> 00:30:36,279
I couldn't. I was so ashamed and I felt like

562
00:30:36,359 --> 00:30:37,880
I had committed.

563
00:30:37,440 --> 00:30:39,799
Speaker 2: A crime and this is bad and like I'm a.

564
00:30:39,680 --> 00:30:43,200
Speaker 3: Bad person and I have the fact, you know, like

565
00:30:43,720 --> 00:30:49,079
I'm squandering this gift, this gift being my life, Like

566
00:30:49,240 --> 00:30:51,799
I I'm lucky to I don't know where this is

567
00:30:51,839 --> 00:30:53,960
coming from exactly. It wasn't like I had a religious

568
00:30:54,039 --> 00:30:55,759
upbringing at all, and it wasn't like, you know, you

569
00:30:55,799 --> 00:30:58,480
have one precious life or anything. But still well, but

570
00:30:58,519 --> 00:31:00,000
that is what I mean, that is what I believe

571
00:31:00,079 --> 00:31:02,200
if you have one life. So it was just like,

572
00:31:02,279 --> 00:31:04,799
what am I doing playing so fast and loose with

573
00:31:04,839 --> 00:31:06,559
my safety and with my health? So I would come

574
00:31:06,559 --> 00:31:09,319
home and I'd be freaked out, and then to quiet

575
00:31:09,359 --> 00:31:11,720
that I would eat. So I'm probably the only person

576
00:31:11,720 --> 00:31:14,119
in the world who started doing cocaine and gained weight,

577
00:31:16,720 --> 00:31:18,480
but I did because I was drinking so much, and

578
00:31:18,519 --> 00:31:20,240
then I would like eat a lot because I felt

579
00:31:20,240 --> 00:31:21,400
weird and unhealthy.

580
00:31:22,079 --> 00:31:23,839
Speaker 2: How old are you at this point?

581
00:31:24,359 --> 00:31:28,599
Speaker 3: That's probably like twenty seven, okay, seven twenty eight, So.

582
00:31:28,480 --> 00:31:31,960
Speaker 1: You're twenty seven. You're working as a writer. Were you

583
00:31:32,039 --> 00:31:34,519
a music reviewer? I forgot what?

584
00:31:34,759 --> 00:31:40,000
Speaker 2: Yeah, so I was working at Timeout in New York, right, correct? Wait,

585
00:31:40,279 --> 00:31:43,759
you are right about yourself. No, I'm not, I'm wrong. Actually.

586
00:31:43,759 --> 00:31:45,680
Speaker 3: Oh, when the first couple of years I was in

587
00:31:45,680 --> 00:31:51,000
New York, I was freelance and this happened before I

588
00:31:51,079 --> 00:31:53,759
started my full time time out New York job. So

589
00:31:53,839 --> 00:31:56,559
I was freelance, but I was writing about music, and

590
00:31:56,599 --> 00:31:58,960
that is when I tried cocaine for the first time.

591
00:31:59,079 --> 00:32:00,400
Speaker 2: And so now you're doing it bunch.

592
00:32:00,279 --> 00:32:03,519
Speaker 1: Of cocaine, you're drinking, you're eating, and are you also

593
00:32:03,920 --> 00:32:04,920
kind of low key?

594
00:32:05,200 --> 00:32:11,079
Speaker 2: Also men? Yes, So you're having all.

595
00:32:10,880 --> 00:32:13,599
Speaker 1: Of those things at the same time and you can't

596
00:32:13,640 --> 00:32:16,640
figure out which, I feel like is a common thing.

597
00:32:16,839 --> 00:32:19,880
Speaker 2: What is wrong with me? Right? Why am I like this?

598
00:32:20,720 --> 00:32:22,200
It's not the cocaine.

599
00:32:22,440 --> 00:32:26,079
Speaker 1: It's not the drinking, it's not the eating, it's not

600
00:32:26,240 --> 00:32:29,440
the I just I'm unlucky. I just don't feel good.

601
00:32:29,799 --> 00:32:30,799
Why am I unhappy?

602
00:32:31,079 --> 00:32:34,759
Speaker 2: Right? Yeah? Or were you?

603
00:32:34,880 --> 00:32:35,559
Speaker 3: I don't.

604
00:32:36,279 --> 00:32:37,160
Speaker 2: I don't know.

605
00:32:37,160 --> 00:32:40,880
Speaker 3: How much I at that point, how much self awareness

606
00:32:40,880 --> 00:32:45,519
I had. I don't think that I had this overall

607
00:32:46,000 --> 00:32:51,960
sense that my patterns are causing misery to myself.

608
00:32:52,759 --> 00:32:53,920
Speaker 2: More it was just.

609
00:32:55,599 --> 00:32:57,880
Speaker 3: If I could just get the kind of job that

610
00:32:57,920 --> 00:33:01,000
I want, which was like a full time writing job

611
00:33:01,160 --> 00:33:05,119
at one of these magazines, not Time Out New York incidentally,

612
00:33:05,160 --> 00:33:06,559
I you know, I wanted to be at like Entertainment

613
00:33:06,599 --> 00:33:10,119
Weekly or a Rolling Stone or Vanity Fair or something like that.

614
00:33:11,480 --> 00:33:14,319
If I could get that job, then everything would be good.

615
00:33:14,599 --> 00:33:16,839
If that if this guy likes me back, then I'll

616
00:33:16,839 --> 00:33:19,079
be happy. If you know, it was always it was

617
00:33:19,079 --> 00:33:22,720
always like if something just happens, then I'll be okay.

618
00:33:22,839 --> 00:33:25,960
I didn't really didn't. I had a really immature sense

619
00:33:26,000 --> 00:33:29,480
of myself at that point.

620
00:33:30,279 --> 00:33:30,880
Speaker 2: I did.

621
00:33:31,160 --> 00:33:33,119
Speaker 1: You were only twenty seven though.

622
00:33:33,240 --> 00:33:36,720
Speaker 3: Yeah, thank you. Some people haven't figured out by them though,

623
00:33:36,759 --> 00:33:41,200
which is wild. I did?

624
00:33:41,319 --> 00:33:42,039
Speaker 1: Who?

625
00:33:42,119 --> 00:33:42,400
Speaker 3: Who?

626
00:33:42,920 --> 00:33:44,039
Speaker 2: What made me do this?

627
00:33:45,359 --> 00:33:50,039
Speaker 3: I went to an NA meeting?

628
00:33:50,720 --> 00:33:52,079
Speaker 2: So narcotics anonymous?

629
00:33:52,160 --> 00:33:52,240
Speaker 3: Uh?

630
00:33:52,319 --> 00:33:54,880
Speaker 2: Huh? Have you ever been to one? No? I haven't.

631
00:33:54,920 --> 00:33:56,599
Speaker 3: I don't know if we're not supposed to talk about

632
00:33:56,599 --> 00:33:58,240
this stuff, but we can't talk.

633
00:33:58,039 --> 00:33:58,880
Speaker 2: About it, okay.

634
00:33:59,039 --> 00:34:03,599
Speaker 1: I've decided that our anonymity is like what you make

635
00:34:03,640 --> 00:34:03,880
of it.

636
00:34:04,559 --> 00:34:05,480
Speaker 2: We don't represent.

637
00:34:05,640 --> 00:34:10,960
Speaker 1: We're not here to promote or represent any group of

638
00:34:11,000 --> 00:34:12,960
any kind, including therapy.

639
00:34:13,800 --> 00:34:16,000
Speaker 2: I wish I could remember what.

640
00:34:18,039 --> 00:34:23,679
Speaker 3: Made me decide to go or who, because NA is

641
00:34:23,880 --> 00:34:26,840
in my experience, I haven't been in one NA meeting.

642
00:34:27,960 --> 00:34:32,559
NA is a wildly different crowd than AA. Like AA,

643
00:34:32,639 --> 00:34:35,239
you'll and it obviously like depends on the location and

644
00:34:35,360 --> 00:34:37,679
d right AA, you run into a lot of people

645
00:34:37,719 --> 00:34:44,719
like yourself NA like these are my one experience. Oh

646
00:34:44,760 --> 00:34:47,480
my gosh, this is a room full of people that

647
00:34:47,519 --> 00:34:49,119
if I saw them on the subway, I would be

648
00:34:49,159 --> 00:34:53,440
afraid of them. These are like hardcore drug addicts who

649
00:34:53,440 --> 00:34:55,519
would laugh at my tiny bit of cocaine use.

650
00:34:56,400 --> 00:34:58,920
Speaker 2: And they all look scary, and.

651
00:34:58,920 --> 00:35:03,199
Speaker 3: They're hugging me me and making me feel better, which

652
00:35:03,320 --> 00:35:07,239
was really kind of beautiful and moving. So I had

653
00:35:07,239 --> 00:35:12,159
decided I had, even though there were not yet any repercussions,

654
00:35:12,400 --> 00:35:15,440
and they're so here's the sorry. I'm gonna choose one

655
00:35:15,480 --> 00:35:17,480
of these sentences and finish it. Here's the weird thing

656
00:35:17,559 --> 00:35:21,559
with the cocaine and me. I grew up on after

657
00:35:21,599 --> 00:35:26,400
school specials, DARE program all of that. I never had

658
00:35:26,400 --> 00:35:29,920
a nosebleed. I never lost all my money, I never

659
00:35:30,000 --> 00:35:33,559
lost my job. I never nothing bad happened that I

660
00:35:33,599 --> 00:35:38,960
could trace to cocaine. I probably acted foolish and embarrassed

661
00:35:39,000 --> 00:35:45,800
and embarrassed myself and wasn't discreet, like I know that

662
00:35:45,840 --> 00:35:49,280
people around me knew what was happening, and so I

663
00:35:49,320 --> 00:35:53,639
think I looked whatever negative thing you would ascribe to

664
00:35:53,679 --> 00:35:57,960
someone who's like being a drug seeking or drug using

665
00:35:58,000 --> 00:36:02,880
in public, and I feel icky about that. But other

666
00:36:02,960 --> 00:36:05,880
than that like I did not have a bottom, there

667
00:36:05,920 --> 00:36:11,159
was no bottom, but I myself felt so guilty about it,

668
00:36:11,199 --> 00:36:13,519
and so like, this is not who I am, This

669
00:36:13,599 --> 00:36:15,079
is not what I should be doing. If Mom and

670
00:36:15,119 --> 00:36:18,119
Dad knew, they would be horrified. This is bad, you know,

671
00:36:18,199 --> 00:36:21,280
there's so much shame. I on my own was like,

672
00:36:21,320 --> 00:36:22,719
I have got I have to stop doing this, Like

673
00:36:22,760 --> 00:36:24,360
this is not okay. So that's when I went to

674
00:36:24,360 --> 00:36:26,480
that NA meeting and.

675
00:36:27,760 --> 00:36:30,480
Speaker 2: Just stopped. I just stopped it, and.

676
00:36:30,440 --> 00:36:35,239
Speaker 3: I was able to stay stopped. I don't remember the

677
00:36:35,280 --> 00:36:40,280
time interval, but this was the time of Friendster and

678
00:36:40,400 --> 00:36:46,920
MySpace and this is just the cocaine though at this point, right,

679
00:36:46,920 --> 00:36:52,280
you're still drinking yeah yeah, yeah, yeah, no'pe be, So

680
00:36:52,599 --> 00:36:57,639
of course I was gonna say yeah yeah. I can't

681
00:36:57,679 --> 00:37:00,239
remember where this guy hit me up. I don't know

682
00:37:00,239 --> 00:37:01,639
if it was on a dating site or if it

683
00:37:01,679 --> 00:37:04,400
was on MySpace or friends. But anyway, this guy, this

684
00:37:04,480 --> 00:37:08,800
cute guy, asked me out and we went out and

685
00:37:08,960 --> 00:37:13,480
he mentioned cocaine and I said, oh, I don't do that,

686
00:37:15,079 --> 00:37:16,559
and I don't know anymore.

687
00:37:16,960 --> 00:37:19,800
Speaker 2: Yeah exactly, ex he's me and either.

688
00:37:21,079 --> 00:37:24,840
Speaker 3: That night or the next time I went out with him,

689
00:37:24,960 --> 00:37:26,719
we were in the bathroom doing it together, and then

690
00:37:26,760 --> 00:37:29,639
I was right back where I was, So that was

691
00:37:29,679 --> 00:37:33,000
a bit of a data point, like a oh interesting,

692
00:37:33,519 --> 00:37:39,480
I had a plan to not do something, and here's

693
00:37:39,519 --> 00:37:41,119
this guy and now I'm doing it.

694
00:37:42,320 --> 00:37:43,159
Speaker 2: So that's weird.

695
00:37:44,679 --> 00:37:46,800
Speaker 3: But it was that same thing, that same sort of

696
00:37:46,840 --> 00:37:51,679
like intoxicating fun of you know, sneaking into the bathroom

697
00:37:51,719 --> 00:37:54,079
and then him kissing me and pulling out a little baggie.

698
00:37:54,119 --> 00:37:57,880
And I think I was lonely. I think I was lonely,

699
00:37:57,920 --> 00:38:00,880
and I think I wanted connection. I have often thought

700
00:38:01,800 --> 00:38:06,119
that this is I don't know how to say this

701
00:38:06,199 --> 00:38:10,440
without it sounding really weird, but I think the reason

702
00:38:10,480 --> 00:38:18,960
that I wanted intimacy was that I wanted to be

703
00:38:19,480 --> 00:38:27,039
like held and cherished like a baby. And don't I

704
00:38:27,079 --> 00:38:29,360
don't mean that in a twisted way of like I

705
00:38:29,400 --> 00:38:31,760
have a baby being a baby fetish or anything. I

706
00:38:31,840 --> 00:38:35,760
just mean like, I think that I have a lot

707
00:38:35,760 --> 00:38:45,559
of wounding around not having unconditional maternal arguably paternal as

708
00:38:45,599 --> 00:38:48,400
well love, and I think that is what I was

709
00:38:48,400 --> 00:38:51,360
seeking with men, even though I did wasn't aware of it.

710
00:38:51,920 --> 00:38:58,440
And so when a guy would be tender and sweet

711
00:38:58,760 --> 00:39:02,679
and intimate with me and then disappear. I think it

712
00:39:02,719 --> 00:39:04,719
like triggered all that old stuff of like I have

713
00:39:04,760 --> 00:39:06,159
to win him back, I have to be.

714
00:39:06,119 --> 00:39:08,000
Speaker 1: Good, I have to win him back or and I

715
00:39:08,039 --> 00:39:12,400
feel like you had had this too. But sometimes, and

716
00:39:12,440 --> 00:39:15,679
I mean from an early age, you know, like in

717
00:39:15,760 --> 00:39:19,239
high school, it was like really pining for guys with girlfriends,

718
00:39:19,679 --> 00:39:22,079
you know, for me. And it's not that I wanted

719
00:39:22,280 --> 00:39:25,280
to like be the other woman, it's that I wanted

720
00:39:25,360 --> 00:39:30,559
the guy. I just I think I wanted to like somebody,

721
00:39:30,800 --> 00:39:33,760
but it was less threatening if they weren't going to

722
00:39:33,800 --> 00:39:35,679
actually have to be my boyfriend.

723
00:39:35,320 --> 00:39:37,719
Speaker 2: One hundred percent. One hundred percent.

724
00:39:37,840 --> 00:39:42,039
Speaker 3: I think that is why I found when a guy

725
00:39:42,079 --> 00:39:46,360
would come on strong but had someone in his life

726
00:39:47,039 --> 00:39:50,800
that coming on strong was so appealing because there was

727
00:39:50,840 --> 00:39:51,800
no real.

728
00:39:51,519 --> 00:39:52,599
Speaker 2: Intent behind it.

729
00:39:52,719 --> 00:39:57,840
Speaker 3: Yes, if someone like Daniel, let's say, had had met

730
00:39:57,880 --> 00:40:01,280
me before I was ready to to be with someone

731
00:40:01,360 --> 00:40:04,239
in a real way, I wouldn't I wouldn't find it

732
00:40:04,239 --> 00:40:04,920
appealing at all.

733
00:40:04,920 --> 00:40:05,719
Speaker 2: I would have scared.

734
00:40:05,800 --> 00:40:09,119
Speaker 3: It would have been like, well, in my mind, I

735
00:40:09,159 --> 00:40:11,639
just would have been like I'm not I'm not interested

736
00:40:11,639 --> 00:40:12,119
in that guy.

737
00:40:12,679 --> 00:40:15,719
Speaker 2: You know. It didn't it was too much. I didn't

738
00:40:15,760 --> 00:40:16,760
really want to be seen.

739
00:40:16,840 --> 00:40:21,239
Speaker 3: I wanted to be occasionally seen by someone who didn't

740
00:40:21,239 --> 00:40:22,119
really want to be with me.

741
00:40:22,519 --> 00:40:22,800
Speaker 2: Same.

742
00:40:23,599 --> 00:40:26,800
Speaker 1: But then also like, one of the things that was

743
00:40:26,840 --> 00:40:29,159
really difficult for me, I think is I like to

744
00:40:29,159 --> 00:40:31,440
think of myself as like a nice person, as a

745
00:40:31,480 --> 00:40:37,400
good person. But I do remember, you know, years before

746
00:40:37,400 --> 00:40:40,960
I got sober, before I met my husband, liking somebody

747
00:40:41,000 --> 00:40:48,079
who was married and feeling like like that pining feeling,

748
00:40:48,159 --> 00:40:49,320
that old pining feeling.

749
00:40:49,440 --> 00:40:51,480
Speaker 2: And then he did.

750
00:40:51,559 --> 00:40:54,840
Speaker 1: They were he got separated and we dated for a while,

751
00:40:54,880 --> 00:40:57,840
and it was a fucking nightmare. I mean, it was

752
00:40:57,920 --> 00:41:00,679
just like what a what like is this on me?

753
00:41:00,719 --> 00:41:03,199
And he was really like a messed up person too,

754
00:41:03,639 --> 00:41:06,480
And it was a really awful experience, and I just

755
00:41:06,559 --> 00:41:10,480
felt and my behavior was so bad, and I just

756
00:41:10,519 --> 00:41:13,960
felt like, wow, this drinking is making me. I feel

757
00:41:14,000 --> 00:41:17,400
like I'm behaving way beneath my moral compass.

758
00:41:17,480 --> 00:41:19,280
Speaker 2: Yes, I know what you mean.

759
00:41:19,639 --> 00:41:22,800
Speaker 1: And I just felt so like this isn't me, Like

760
00:41:22,840 --> 00:41:25,760
what am I doing? And how do I fix it

761
00:41:25,840 --> 00:41:29,920
and get myself together? Yeah, And that's one of those behaviors.

762
00:41:30,199 --> 00:41:33,920
Speaker 3: What's one of the things I learned about relationships is

763
00:41:33,960 --> 00:41:38,599
that if you find yourself acting in ways around someone

764
00:41:39,000 --> 00:41:43,840
that you don't like, like, that's a red flag, you know,

765
00:41:43,880 --> 00:41:47,119
if they're bringing whether it's you or them or who

766
00:41:47,360 --> 00:41:49,239
you know. I don't mean to assign blamed either party,

767
00:41:49,239 --> 00:41:53,840
but like, if someone is bringing behavior out in you

768
00:41:54,360 --> 00:41:56,239
that you don't like, you know why.

769
00:41:57,880 --> 00:41:58,119
Speaker 2: Yeah.

770
00:41:58,119 --> 00:42:01,159
Speaker 3: But so anyway, I I am. I probably did tell

771
00:42:01,159 --> 00:42:05,239
you I ended up sleeping with a married man. This

772
00:42:05,400 --> 00:42:10,639
was later, so I had you know, I had dabbled

773
00:42:10,639 --> 00:42:17,159
with cocaine, stopped, went back to it, stopped again, and

774
00:42:17,639 --> 00:42:23,599
then kind I remember at what point I stopped drinking

775
00:42:23,679 --> 00:42:27,880
or started to stop drinking. I there was a different

776
00:42:28,000 --> 00:42:32,800
Oh okay, so there was a different guy cocaine was involved.

777
00:42:32,840 --> 00:42:35,639
He is someone who I think to this day probably

778
00:42:35,679 --> 00:42:36,400
is still addicted.

779
00:42:37,960 --> 00:42:41,039
Speaker 2: Brilliant, funny, talented.

780
00:42:40,840 --> 00:42:45,400
Speaker 3: Just has a really bad addiction problem, the kind of

781
00:42:45,400 --> 00:42:47,480
thing where everyone who cares about.

782
00:42:47,280 --> 00:42:49,239
Speaker 2: Him is like, how is he still alive? You know.

783
00:42:49,360 --> 00:42:56,559
Speaker 3: It's scary, very smart, very charming, fun guy. And we

784
00:42:56,559 --> 00:42:58,840
were friends, and then we were working together, and then

785
00:42:58,840 --> 00:43:01,519
we were dating a little bit. This is one of

786
00:43:01,559 --> 00:43:04,760
those guys that I became infatuated with. I knew that

787
00:43:04,800 --> 00:43:08,800
he wasn't right for me. He didn't wasn't interested in

788
00:43:08,840 --> 00:43:13,519
me in that way, and I I had so much

789
00:43:13,519 --> 00:43:21,480
trouble extricating myself. I remember, so he worked at magazines.

790
00:43:21,519 --> 00:43:24,719
I was hanging out with his friend group who were

791
00:43:24,760 --> 00:43:27,559
I was friendly with them too. It was this group

792
00:43:27,599 --> 00:43:31,840
of writers in New York, and they partied in a

793
00:43:31,880 --> 00:43:36,119
way that I just hadn't seen before, where they would

794
00:43:36,159 --> 00:43:39,599
begin drinking right after work and then like on the weekends,

795
00:43:39,639 --> 00:43:44,239
they would start drinking in the morning at brunch. And

796
00:43:45,760 --> 00:43:48,039
I felt like I would I would die if I

797
00:43:48,079 --> 00:43:49,679
tried to keep up with them, even though I did

798
00:43:49,800 --> 00:43:51,599
keep up with them a little bit, no spending time

799
00:43:51,639 --> 00:43:54,079
with him and that involved cocaine and drinking.

800
00:43:55,360 --> 00:44:01,000
Speaker 2: I took a quiz I think.

801
00:44:01,119 --> 00:44:04,320
Speaker 3: I was like, I think they might be alcoholic, so

802
00:44:05,480 --> 00:44:08,840
you take a quiz for them, you know, let's diagnose

803
00:44:08,880 --> 00:44:09,760
these people.

804
00:44:09,599 --> 00:44:10,679
Speaker 2: Right, I guess.

805
00:44:10,800 --> 00:44:13,360
Speaker 3: Yeah. There was like maybe on the AA websit or something,

806
00:44:13,400 --> 00:44:16,440
there's a quiz and you take it. And I was

807
00:44:16,480 --> 00:44:18,199
just trying to get more information on like what is

808
00:44:18,199 --> 00:44:21,719
an alcoholic because they have a problem. But I I

809
00:44:21,760 --> 00:44:23,840
know that at the end it was like if you

810
00:44:23,880 --> 00:44:25,119
and I. But I took it from my you know,

811
00:44:25,159 --> 00:44:27,000
I answered as myself. And at the end it's like,

812
00:44:27,039 --> 00:44:30,280
if you have if you've answered you know, more than two,

813
00:44:30,519 --> 00:44:34,000
let's say, gave yes answers to more than two, you

814
00:44:34,559 --> 00:44:36,880
may have a problem and might benefit from going to it.

815
00:44:36,920 --> 00:44:38,320
Let I don't know that it's this something like that.

816
00:44:38,360 --> 00:44:40,199
And I was like, oh, that's weird. I write it

817
00:44:40,199 --> 00:44:41,159
says in my book.

818
00:44:41,480 --> 00:44:46,119
Speaker 1: Okay, basically it's if you answer yes to because I

819
00:44:46,159 --> 00:44:49,000
took it and I answered, so I mean I got

820
00:44:49,039 --> 00:44:52,119
a lot of them, right, yeah, you know right when

821
00:44:52,119 --> 00:44:52,559
I did too.

822
00:44:52,679 --> 00:44:54,920
Speaker 2: But I was feeling kind of good about myself because

823
00:44:54,920 --> 00:44:56,800
I and I, like.

824
00:44:56,760 --> 00:44:58,760
Speaker 1: I said, I wrote about this's a whole chapter about

825
00:44:58,800 --> 00:45:03,119
this about how I thought I was kind of better

826
00:45:03,199 --> 00:45:03,840
than the tees.

827
00:45:03,800 --> 00:45:04,199
Speaker 2: You know what I mean.

828
00:45:04,199 --> 00:45:06,239
Speaker 1: Because I was like, well, okay, this one I said

829
00:45:06,320 --> 00:45:08,840
yes to, but like everybody would say yes to that,

830
00:45:09,000 --> 00:45:10,920
like that's crazy, like we've all done that.

831
00:45:11,320 --> 00:45:13,880
Speaker 2: And then I eat a couple, so I ended up

832
00:45:13,920 --> 00:45:14,519
with like two.

833
00:45:14,440 --> 00:45:16,880
Speaker 1: And a half yes's, and I was feeling very good

834
00:45:16,920 --> 00:45:19,800
at myself about myself, you know, and then I have.

835
00:45:19,840 --> 00:45:25,199
Speaker 3: Such a low number certainly, oh, like you're definitely winning, right,

836
00:45:25,280 --> 00:45:27,239
And then it was like, if you answer yes to

837
00:45:27,400 --> 00:45:31,199
one of yes, you may there might be a problem.

838
00:45:31,239 --> 00:45:33,920
Speaker 1: And if you answer yes to two or more like,

839
00:45:34,079 --> 00:45:36,360
you have a problem. And I was like, how dare you?

840
00:45:37,000 --> 00:45:37,199
Speaker 3: Yeah?

841
00:45:37,280 --> 00:45:38,639
Speaker 2: And I know me and I was in my.

842
00:45:38,679 --> 00:45:42,599
Speaker 1: Twenties and I quit drinking at forty two, so okay, yeah,

843
00:45:43,440 --> 00:45:45,440
I think I maybe answer crazy.

844
00:45:45,760 --> 00:45:47,920
Speaker 3: Yeah, I think I answered yes to four or something.

845
00:45:47,920 --> 00:45:50,960
I'm like, oh shit. And then I also remember I

846
00:45:51,079 --> 00:45:55,519
was starting to order different drinks because I was drinking

847
00:45:55,559 --> 00:45:58,199
them too fast. So I'm like, I know what I'll do.

848
00:45:58,440 --> 00:46:00,360
I'll figure out a drink that I hate the taste

849
00:46:00,400 --> 00:46:03,480
of and then I'll order that. And then I had

850
00:46:03,519 --> 00:46:06,880
this awareness that like, well that sounds like I'm trying

851
00:46:06,920 --> 00:46:09,119
to manage my drinking.

852
00:46:10,079 --> 00:46:10,400
Speaker 2: Hmmm.

853
00:46:11,039 --> 00:46:13,800
Speaker 3: And then I went to a park. It was a

854
00:46:13,880 --> 00:46:18,039
time out New York function with an open bar, you

855
00:46:18,039 --> 00:46:19,880
know people, it's not people were drinking, but I was

856
00:46:19,960 --> 00:46:21,800
on my way there. I remember walking there and I

857
00:46:21,800 --> 00:46:24,719
remember saying I'm not going to drink tonight. It was

858
00:46:24,719 --> 00:46:27,360
Wednesday or something like, I am not going to drink tonight,

859
00:46:28,000 --> 00:46:32,079
and then walking home being like I had two drinks,

860
00:46:32,360 --> 00:46:35,840
Like what happened? And even though you're not supposed to

861
00:46:35,920 --> 00:46:38,719
go to a meeting when you have, you know, a

862
00:46:38,760 --> 00:46:42,280
substance in you. I went to an AA meeting that night.

863
00:46:42,679 --> 00:46:43,960
It was a few hours later, but.

864
00:46:45,320 --> 00:46:47,559
Speaker 2: I totally go to an A. I think you're not

865
00:46:47,559 --> 00:46:48,000
supposed to.

866
00:46:48,280 --> 00:46:50,440
Speaker 1: Just to let our listeners know, if you want to

867
00:46:50,440 --> 00:46:52,719
go to an AA meeting and you're you've been drinking,

868
00:46:52,760 --> 00:46:55,639
it's perfectly fine. They some meetings would prefer that you

869
00:46:55,679 --> 00:46:57,440
don't share if you've been drinking.

870
00:46:57,760 --> 00:46:58,719
Speaker 2: Maybe that's what they say.

871
00:46:58,840 --> 00:47:02,360
Speaker 3: Yeah, yes, I just remember some clause about like if

872
00:47:02,360 --> 00:47:06,159
you've been drinking or using, yeah, maybe don't share. But

873
00:47:06,880 --> 00:47:09,760
was that my first ever A because I had also

874
00:47:09,840 --> 00:47:13,400
gone to OA. I was eating a salad one night.

875
00:47:13,440 --> 00:47:16,719
This is many years before. No, it's not many years before.

876
00:47:17,320 --> 00:47:19,519
This was after Okay, No, the OA came after.

877
00:47:19,639 --> 00:47:22,960
Speaker 1: Well, I'm going to listen to this podcast back and

878
00:47:22,960 --> 00:47:25,280
just build you a timeline and say thank you please.

879
00:47:25,360 --> 00:47:26,280
Speaker 2: I'm so confused.

880
00:47:27,400 --> 00:47:29,239
Speaker 3: Anyway, Yeah, I was eating a salad and I was like,

881
00:47:29,679 --> 00:47:32,239
I wish this salad bowl would never end. And I

882
00:47:32,280 --> 00:47:34,559
was like, that doesn't that sounds like a disorder. Thought,

883
00:47:34,800 --> 00:47:38,360
I'm like, I'm gonna explore OA anyway. No, AA came first. Yeah,

884
00:47:38,400 --> 00:47:42,760
I went to a meeting, and I've been to OA two,

885
00:47:43,039 --> 00:47:47,400
so don't Yeah, okay, once again, the people were so

886
00:47:47,920 --> 00:47:51,280
nice and so welcoming and gave me their phone number

887
00:47:51,840 --> 00:47:54,400
and made me feel less alone. And I don't know

888
00:47:54,400 --> 00:47:56,000
if it was after that. I know there was one

889
00:47:56,559 --> 00:47:58,840
where I was talking to a woman there and she

890
00:47:59,360 --> 00:48:02,320
talked about well, she said something like, well, they don't

891
00:48:02,320 --> 00:48:08,480
have the compulsive behaviors, and that kind of lit something

892
00:48:08,559 --> 00:48:11,159
up positive or make something make sense in my brain,

893
00:48:12,119 --> 00:48:14,519
because I think I still had that thing of like, well,

894
00:48:14,559 --> 00:48:17,119
I'm not falling down drunk while I was growing up

895
00:48:17,159 --> 00:48:19,400
in a lot of planters in New York and embarrassing myself, But.

896
00:48:19,400 --> 00:48:20,440
Speaker 2: Like, I'm not.

897
00:48:21,119 --> 00:48:24,840
Speaker 3: I don't have a I don't I never drink alone.

898
00:48:25,000 --> 00:48:27,960
I don't have a bottle of you know, vodka tucked

899
00:48:27,960 --> 00:48:31,119
behind the toilet, or all these things you see in

900
00:48:31,199 --> 00:48:35,800
representations of alcoholism. I don't really think the amount I'm

901
00:48:35,880 --> 00:48:40,000
drinking is a problem. I don't need to drink. I

902
00:48:40,039 --> 00:48:42,239
don't drink alone, I don't drink during the day, I

903
00:48:42,280 --> 00:48:45,840
don't all these things. Then it's like it's really not

904
00:48:45,920 --> 00:48:49,280
about that, it's about for the way she described it

905
00:48:49,320 --> 00:48:52,719
was like, it's the compulsive behaviors that are the problem.

906
00:48:52,920 --> 00:48:56,519
And my behaviors were certainly compulsive, and certainly the more

907
00:48:56,519 --> 00:49:00,840
I tried, you know, just trying to stop somethinged this

908
00:49:00,960 --> 00:49:03,119
reaction inside me of like, well, you can't tell me

909
00:49:03,159 --> 00:49:06,000
what to do? Me, yes, I this back and forth

910
00:49:06,039 --> 00:49:09,599
and feeling kind of forgotten about this struggle inside me

911
00:49:09,639 --> 00:49:11,920
of like and this would go back to trying, you know,

912
00:49:12,280 --> 00:49:13,639
restricting with food, like.

913
00:49:15,280 --> 00:49:16,079
Speaker 2: You can't have that.

914
00:49:16,239 --> 00:49:19,000
Speaker 3: Well, now I feel punished and I feel bad and

915
00:49:19,039 --> 00:49:23,239
I feel unloved and fuck you, yes I can have that.

916
00:49:23,360 --> 00:49:27,079
And this just internal battle over something as simple as

917
00:49:27,159 --> 00:49:28,840
just not having a drink.

918
00:49:31,000 --> 00:49:35,320
Speaker 1: So you go to the meeting, Yes, you've had a

919
00:49:35,360 --> 00:49:36,239
couple drinks in you.

920
00:49:36,880 --> 00:49:39,360
Speaker 3: Yes, go to the meeting. And then I started going

921
00:49:39,400 --> 00:49:42,119
more frequently. I don't think I did the ninety and

922
00:49:42,239 --> 00:49:44,199
ninety thing, which is where you go every single day

923
00:49:44,199 --> 00:49:45,719
for ninety but I went.

924
00:49:45,639 --> 00:49:49,159
Speaker 2: For a while and you stop drinking.

925
00:49:49,440 --> 00:49:53,519
Speaker 3: I stopped drinking. Yes, I stopped drinking. Do you do

926
00:49:53,599 --> 00:49:58,840
the work No? No, I never And do the work

927
00:49:58,920 --> 00:50:00,320
means do the steps.

928
00:50:00,760 --> 00:50:03,039
Speaker 2: Where you like involved? Yeah?

929
00:50:03,159 --> 00:50:08,760
Speaker 1: Yeah, I'm a program person, but I'm not hardcore yeah,

930
00:50:08,840 --> 00:50:13,079
I'm nobody's example of like a big book thumper. I

931
00:50:13,159 --> 00:50:18,239
consider myself a bit atheist. For me, I love to like,

932
00:50:18,280 --> 00:50:21,079
I would love to say that I'm agnostic because that

933
00:50:21,280 --> 00:50:24,280
sounds better and it sounds like I'm searching, But like,

934
00:50:24,440 --> 00:50:26,639
I just don't know that I've ever felt this.

935
00:50:26,760 --> 00:50:28,039
Speaker 2: Sometimes I feel a little.

936
00:50:27,800 --> 00:50:32,199
Speaker 1: More spiritually connected, and I feel better when I'm being better.

937
00:50:32,519 --> 00:50:35,239
You know, when I act better, I feel better, So

938
00:50:35,559 --> 00:50:37,760
that to me, there's sort of but I don't.

939
00:50:37,960 --> 00:50:38,440
Speaker 2: I don't.

940
00:50:39,519 --> 00:50:41,960
Speaker 1: I don't think you Yeah, I don't feel like you

941
00:50:42,079 --> 00:50:44,079
have to you know, I don't think you have to

942
00:50:44,119 --> 00:50:46,480
believe in it, truly believes.

943
00:50:46,559 --> 00:50:48,880
Speaker 2: I've been sober sixteen years, and I don't.

944
00:50:49,079 --> 00:50:53,280
Speaker 1: I don't ever feel like I really relate to like

945
00:50:53,360 --> 00:50:57,559
the spiritual aspect when people talk a lot about God.

946
00:50:57,599 --> 00:51:01,920
Speaker 2: I do now, but I still works for me. Yeah.

947
00:51:02,559 --> 00:51:06,519
By the work, what I mean is like really examining.

948
00:51:07,000 --> 00:51:09,679
Speaker 1: But you also were in therapy and well, when you

949
00:51:09,840 --> 00:51:12,719
say you do the work steps, I mean, yeah, I

950
00:51:12,719 --> 00:51:16,199
mean figure out, write down, work with a sponsor, write down,

951
00:51:17,239 --> 00:51:19,840
here's all the ways that alcohol makes my life has

952
00:51:19,880 --> 00:51:23,480
made my life unmanageable. And then go and then do

953
00:51:23,599 --> 00:51:27,119
a fourth step, which is write down all my resentments,

954
00:51:27,199 --> 00:51:30,199
all the things that I'm holding onto, all the patterns

955
00:51:30,760 --> 00:51:34,280
you know that usually come out when you talk about resentments,

956
00:51:34,679 --> 00:51:36,360
look at my character defects.

957
00:51:36,559 --> 00:51:40,760
Speaker 2: Go oh, I drop the rock. Yeah, I forgot what

958
00:51:40,760 --> 00:51:43,480
that even really means. But like have I forget? It's

959
00:51:43,480 --> 00:51:45,280
a it's one of the you read that.

960
00:51:45,199 --> 00:51:47,880
Speaker 1: Book at one of the steps like look at look

961
00:51:47,920 --> 00:51:53,800
at my ego and my motives in certain behaviors, and

962
00:51:53,880 --> 00:51:57,840
then you know, try to and then make amends. I

963
00:51:57,880 --> 00:52:02,400
did a lot of work with like even though and

964
00:52:02,480 --> 00:52:05,880
most people that listen to this know that I haven't

965
00:52:05,880 --> 00:52:09,199
spoken to my some members of my family in quite

966
00:52:09,239 --> 00:52:12,280
a few years. But I did do work around it,

967
00:52:12,320 --> 00:52:15,599
Like I wrote letters and I did that I didn't

968
00:52:15,599 --> 00:52:19,880
send and I like with my father who passed away,

969
00:52:19,960 --> 00:52:23,679
my biological father had a lot of anger, and I

970
00:52:23,760 --> 00:52:28,559
really wrote a letter to him and just just to see, like,

971
00:52:28,840 --> 00:52:31,920
is there any of this that could be on my side?

972
00:52:32,239 --> 00:52:35,000
Speaker 2: Right, you know? And and it it really helped. It

973
00:52:35,079 --> 00:52:38,719
helped me. Yeah, it's not for everybody, but anyway, but

974
00:52:38,800 --> 00:52:41,239
you didn't do that stuff. No, I didn't do the

975
00:52:41,280 --> 00:52:43,960
steps I did do.

976
00:52:44,360 --> 00:52:47,000
Speaker 3: I began to do the steps with a sponsor later

977
00:52:47,239 --> 00:52:50,079
in oak living in California. Yeah, and I think I

978
00:52:50,119 --> 00:52:53,840
got to what is the fifth? I know I made

979
00:52:53,840 --> 00:52:57,559
an inventory. The fifth is when you read your inventory.

980
00:52:58,239 --> 00:53:00,000
Speaker 2: Oh, then I did that one. What's the sixth?

981
00:53:00,400 --> 00:53:03,639
Speaker 1: Sixth is you make you figure out your character defects

982
00:53:03,760 --> 00:53:05,880
and become willing to let them go.

983
00:53:06,159 --> 00:53:08,840
Speaker 3: Basically, that's dropping the rock, I think, And I think

984
00:53:09,000 --> 00:53:11,800
I think I got I was in the midst of

985
00:53:11,880 --> 00:53:14,440
six when I seven.

986
00:53:14,119 --> 00:53:17,719
Speaker 1: As you ask God to remove your character defects. Then

987
00:53:17,800 --> 00:53:20,119
eight is you make a list of all persons you've harmed.

988
00:53:20,880 --> 00:53:22,280
Speaker 2: I don't think I got that far.

989
00:53:22,519 --> 00:53:25,760
Speaker 3: Although this has been come up, this just came up

990
00:53:25,760 --> 00:53:29,079
on my own podcast. I was saying to Daniel, there's

991
00:53:29,119 --> 00:53:33,400
these two apologies that I'm very overdue for, and I

992
00:53:33,480 --> 00:53:37,079
have this sort of weird looping deja vu where I

993
00:53:37,119 --> 00:53:40,760
can't remember if I actually already did these. These are

994
00:53:40,960 --> 00:53:44,519
some things like, for twenty five to the drummer of

995
00:53:44,559 --> 00:53:49,280
my band and my then roommate who at one point

996
00:53:49,320 --> 00:53:52,000
was his girlfriend. I owe both of them an apology

997
00:53:52,039 --> 00:53:57,519
for something separate, separate things, And I can't remember if

998
00:53:57,519 --> 00:54:00,840
I've ever actually given them the apology because it's the

999
00:54:00,960 --> 00:54:03,000
kind of thing where I have the thought so frequently

1000
00:54:03,480 --> 00:54:06,119
that I feel like maybe I've like apologized like three

1001
00:54:06,159 --> 00:54:08,920
times already, and it's been something where they've been like,

1002
00:54:08,960 --> 00:54:10,519
don't worry about it, or they said like, thank you

1003
00:54:10,519 --> 00:54:10,880
so much.

1004
00:54:11,719 --> 00:54:12,960
Speaker 2: But I realized in.

1005
00:54:12,920 --> 00:54:15,960
Speaker 3: The course of that conversation, no, Allison, you have not

1006
00:54:16,039 --> 00:54:18,800
made the apology, because if you did, you would remember

1007
00:54:18,920 --> 00:54:22,559
how they reacted. But instead I keep talking myself out

1008
00:54:22,599 --> 00:54:24,360
of it, like I've already done it. But anyway, this

1009
00:54:24,480 --> 00:54:26,440
feeling of like I need to do a little small

1010
00:54:26,480 --> 00:54:28,719
apology tour, I was like, this is one of the steps.

1011
00:54:30,320 --> 00:54:34,840
Speaker 1: But when I was first gonna do that step, I

1012
00:54:34,880 --> 00:54:36,800
was like, I'm gonna start with one that's going to

1013
00:54:36,880 --> 00:54:39,679
be pretty easy because it was an old friend of

1014
00:54:39,719 --> 00:54:43,239
mine that I knew had also quit drinking. So I

1015
00:54:43,280 --> 00:54:45,000
was like, this is going to be a practice one

1016
00:54:45,039 --> 00:54:47,320
because this thing I'm gonna apologize for, she's going to

1017
00:54:47,400 --> 00:54:50,159
be like, oh my god, I can't believe you're still.

1018
00:54:49,960 --> 00:54:50,679
Speaker 2: Holding on to that.

1019
00:54:51,280 --> 00:54:55,239
Speaker 1: And I called her and I said, hey, like, can

1020
00:54:55,280 --> 00:54:57,719
I talk to you? And then she's like, yeah, is

1021
00:54:57,760 --> 00:54:59,719
this about my bachelorette party?

1022
00:55:00,880 --> 00:55:01,920
Speaker 2: All this is in your book?

1023
00:55:02,440 --> 00:55:05,800
Speaker 1: Yeah, and then I was like, uh yeah. She was

1024
00:55:05,840 --> 00:55:08,239
like yeah that was that was really hard. That really

1025
00:55:08,320 --> 00:55:10,719
hurt my feelings. And I was like, not let you

1026
00:55:10,760 --> 00:55:12,920
off the hook, no, as much as you wanted now,

1027
00:55:14,079 --> 00:55:16,880
and it was hardcore, like I had to then then

1028
00:55:16,960 --> 00:55:21,639
apologize and not make excuses and just like there it

1029
00:55:21,679 --> 00:55:24,079
was a whole situation. Read my book Drunkish if you

1030
00:55:24,079 --> 00:55:26,159
want to know, but it was I had to just

1031
00:55:26,719 --> 00:55:30,559
pull on apologize and just sit there while she was like, yeah,

1032
00:55:30,880 --> 00:55:33,920
I really sobbed. I thought it was really selfish, you know,

1033
00:55:34,079 --> 00:55:37,800
and I had to go, yeah it was, and then

1034
00:55:37,840 --> 00:55:40,400
she said then she did say like I've I have

1035
00:55:40,519 --> 00:55:44,639
forgiven you, like I've moved on, but I'm glad you apologized.

1036
00:55:45,320 --> 00:55:46,639
Speaker 2: But it's just funny how.

1037
00:55:46,519 --> 00:55:49,159
Speaker 1: I made it in my head like you not a

1038
00:55:49,199 --> 00:55:51,880
big deals to barely remember.

1039
00:55:52,039 --> 00:55:55,800
Speaker 3: That's crazy, similar to how in my mind they would

1040
00:55:55,800 --> 00:55:58,599
both be like to forget.

1041
00:55:58,280 --> 00:56:01,599
Speaker 2: About bad that's so long I got a or like.

1042
00:56:02,280 --> 00:56:04,840
Speaker 3: Oh my god, that means so much that you're saying this,

1043
00:56:05,159 --> 00:56:07,599
but don't worry about it. It was so long ago, right,

1044
00:56:08,039 --> 00:56:11,920
I'm not I'm not considering the idea that one or

1045
00:56:11,960 --> 00:56:15,159
two might be like yeah, that was fucked up, so

1046
00:56:15,199 --> 00:56:16,159
I should get.

1047
00:56:16,000 --> 00:56:17,639
Speaker 1: Just then you're gonna be like, well you did some

1048
00:56:17,679 --> 00:56:20,119
fucked up stuff too, Yeah, totally.

1049
00:56:20,840 --> 00:56:23,760
Speaker 3: I mean, lady, I can't remember it, but I'm I

1050
00:56:23,760 --> 00:56:28,079
can't remember it, but I'm sure that I had reasons. Yeah,

1051
00:56:28,119 --> 00:56:32,519
So no, I not do the steps when I went

1052
00:56:32,559 --> 00:56:35,920
to AA. We never actually finished the steps ultimately, but

1053
00:56:36,079 --> 00:56:39,800
when I went to AA, just going and sitting in

1054
00:56:39,880 --> 00:56:44,119
the room and hearing the things they are said and

1055
00:56:44,159 --> 00:56:49,480
listening to everyone's share and sharing myself just that was

1056
00:56:49,599 --> 00:56:53,639
so powerful for me and gave me so It showed

1057
00:56:53,679 --> 00:57:00,000
me how people deal with compulsive behaviors in their own life,

1058
00:57:02,239 --> 00:57:05,920
and that alone was like huge for me.

1059
00:57:06,639 --> 00:57:10,239
Speaker 2: Huge. So I was able to quit with just that.

1060
00:57:11,639 --> 00:57:16,840
And then there was this guy thing was so fucked up.

1061
00:57:19,239 --> 00:57:24,480
Speaker 3: I like he and it seemed like being close to

1062
00:57:24,559 --> 00:57:30,000
him would somehow help me career wise. Which given that

1063
00:57:30,000 --> 00:57:32,559
that's the case, the fact that what's about what the

1064
00:57:32,559 --> 00:57:35,280
story I'm about to tell, the fact that that was

1065
00:57:35,320 --> 00:57:39,679
my calculation is so messed up, because it's like, if

1066
00:57:39,679 --> 00:57:42,480
it's someone who could potentially help you career wise, you

1067
00:57:42,519 --> 00:57:46,719
should be really careful not get drunk and sleep with him.

1068
00:57:47,280 --> 00:57:52,400
But I like he was being kind of inappropriate with me.

1069
00:57:52,880 --> 00:57:54,639
He was being completely and he had a wife. He

1070
00:57:54,679 --> 00:57:59,960
was being completely inappropriate with me. I was like really flattered,

1071
00:58:00,599 --> 00:58:02,760
and oh my gosh, he has like a pozi. You know,

1072
00:58:02,880 --> 00:58:06,000
he has a position at this company and I would

1073
00:58:06,039 --> 00:58:08,079
love to have more opportunity there.

1074
00:58:09,360 --> 00:58:13,039
Speaker 2: And again that sort.

1075
00:58:12,760 --> 00:58:20,400
Speaker 3: Of naive, very naive, a lot of naivete in thinking

1076
00:58:21,840 --> 00:58:26,920
returning the affection of someone who's really I could this

1077
00:58:26,960 --> 00:58:30,039
is something I couldn't see that, Like when someone who

1078
00:58:30,119 --> 00:58:32,400
has a girlfriend or a wife is flirting with you,

1079
00:58:33,079 --> 00:58:38,000
that's disrespectful to you. Actually, that is not you being

1080
00:58:38,880 --> 00:58:43,239
so amazing and so special that they are risking their

1081
00:58:43,280 --> 00:58:46,039
own marriage because they have just got to talk to you,

1082
00:58:46,119 --> 00:58:48,199
which I think I somehow thought, you.

1083
00:58:48,119 --> 00:58:49,840
Speaker 2: Know, I wanted to be selected. I wanted to be chosen.

1084
00:58:49,880 --> 00:58:53,199
I want to be special. I didn't see that.

1085
00:58:53,519 --> 00:58:58,000
Speaker 3: If I didn't see that, when someone really cares about

1086
00:58:58,039 --> 00:59:00,159
you in the way that you would hope they do,

1087
00:59:00,440 --> 00:59:03,320
there's an entirely different set of behaviors they exhibit.

1088
00:59:03,360 --> 00:59:05,679
Speaker 2: That took me a long time because I'd never seen

1089
00:59:05,719 --> 00:59:07,320
those behaviors really me too.

1090
00:59:08,119 --> 00:59:09,760
Speaker 3: It took me a long time to get to so anyway,

1091
00:59:10,079 --> 00:59:14,199
he you know, invites me out and I can tell

1092
00:59:14,280 --> 00:59:19,000
myself that there's some work related reason I'm going. And then,

1093
00:59:19,199 --> 00:59:22,519
even though I wasn't drinking anymore, I decided this night

1094
00:59:22,639 --> 00:59:25,239
is going to require me to go back on my

1095
00:59:25,320 --> 00:59:27,400
little thing I'm doing where I'm not drinking and have

1096
00:59:27,440 --> 00:59:33,079
a couple of drinks. So I did, and then we

1097
00:59:33,159 --> 00:59:37,079
started making out. And I don't know where his wife

1098
00:59:37,119 --> 00:59:40,239
was actually, I mean, she was like uptown and I

1099
00:59:40,280 --> 00:59:43,159
was downtown, and I don't think she was like because

1100
00:59:43,199 --> 00:59:45,760
we did hang out again when she was out of

1101
00:59:45,800 --> 00:59:50,960
the state. But he said a few things that made

1102
00:59:51,000 --> 00:59:54,800
me realize he probably does this a lot, even though

1103
00:59:54,800 --> 00:59:57,079
he was trying to act like he doesn't. Just the

1104
00:59:57,199 --> 01:00:03,760
casualness with which he was, you know, going out with

1105
01:00:03,800 --> 01:00:07,960
someone else when he's married, was weird. And then he

1106
01:00:08,519 --> 01:00:11,400
came home with me. We were making out in a bar,

1107
01:00:11,519 --> 01:00:14,039
which is a humiliating and then he came home with

1108
01:00:14,079 --> 01:00:22,320
me and then we basically I like fell I fell asleep,

1109
01:00:22,400 --> 01:00:26,360
passed out, I don't know what, but like woke up

1110
01:00:26,360 --> 01:00:32,320
to us having sex, and then fell asleep again. And

1111
01:00:33,800 --> 01:00:35,440
in the I don't know if it was a four

1112
01:00:35,519 --> 01:00:37,320
or five, six, I don't know what time it was,

1113
01:00:37,360 --> 01:00:40,239
like morning ish. I remember waking up and kind of

1114
01:00:40,239 --> 01:00:46,320
remembering what happened and just being like, I that I

1115
01:00:46,320 --> 01:00:48,400
feel like I broke a law, Like I feel like

1116
01:00:48,440 --> 01:00:49,119
a criminal.

1117
01:00:49,159 --> 01:00:49,760
Speaker 2: I feel like I.

1118
01:00:49,719 --> 01:00:52,000
Speaker 3: Did something so bad. This was a line I had

1119
01:00:52,079 --> 01:00:57,079
never crossed before. I had played with fire a lot,

1120
01:00:57,400 --> 01:00:58,599
but I had never been.

1121
01:00:58,519 --> 01:00:59,559
Speaker 2: With someone who was married.

1122
01:01:03,519 --> 01:01:08,159
Speaker 3: He didn't seem to be bothered by it. And then

1123
01:01:08,320 --> 01:01:12,480
I think we hung out one more. We never slept

1124
01:01:12,519 --> 01:01:14,039
together again. We hung out one more time, and then

1125
01:01:14,039 --> 01:01:19,400
I said like I I can't do this, and that

1126
01:01:19,599 --> 01:01:23,679
actually wasn't that hard to extricate myself.

1127
01:01:23,880 --> 01:01:26,239
Speaker 2: It just I just knew, like this is just so

1128
01:01:26,400 --> 01:01:27,440
bad on every level.

1129
01:01:28,119 --> 01:01:33,360
Speaker 3: But at that point I stopped dating for a while

1130
01:01:33,480 --> 01:01:35,440
because I was like, I do not trust myself. I

1131
01:01:35,480 --> 01:01:38,559
stopped dating. I stopped, you know, recommitted to not drinking.

1132
01:01:39,400 --> 01:01:41,519
Drugs weren't really a thing in my life at all anymore.

1133
01:01:42,239 --> 01:01:45,639
I was just like, I do not trust myself around men,

1134
01:01:45,679 --> 01:01:47,559
and I don't trust myself around substances, and I just

1135
01:01:47,559 --> 01:01:50,000
don't trust myself. I need to just give myself a

1136
01:01:50,039 --> 01:01:50,559
time out.

1137
01:01:51,639 --> 01:01:52,519
Speaker 2: So I did.

1138
01:01:55,960 --> 01:01:58,960
Speaker 3: For a while, and then there were a couple of

1139
01:01:58,960 --> 01:02:01,000
guys I kind of liked, and I ended up moving

1140
01:02:01,000 --> 01:02:03,800
to California, and then I ended up with Danielle never

1141
01:02:03,960 --> 01:02:05,280
had a drink around him ever.

1142
01:02:06,159 --> 01:02:09,159
Speaker 1: So can I ask you just sort of to bring

1143
01:02:09,199 --> 01:02:13,320
this back to like, okay, so, because I really I

1144
01:02:13,360 --> 01:02:18,800
really relate to you on so many levels and sometimes

1145
01:02:18,800 --> 01:02:21,400
though without something to kind of ground you in, it's

1146
01:02:21,440 --> 01:02:24,800
so easy for our brains to go, okay, well, but look,

1147
01:02:24,840 --> 01:02:26,679
I haven't had a drink in so long, and now

1148
01:02:26,719 --> 01:02:30,760
my behavior is different. So maybe I could drink. Like

1149
01:02:30,880 --> 01:02:33,840
what is it? Because you still you still don't drink, right,

1150
01:02:34,719 --> 01:02:39,000
you're a sober person. What how do you fight off

1151
01:02:39,079 --> 01:02:42,320
the idea that like, but that's the old me, but

1152
01:02:42,400 --> 01:02:44,599
like you know, it's somebody healthy, Like, well, I could

1153
01:02:44,639 --> 01:02:45,599
have a glass of wine.

1154
01:02:45,719 --> 01:02:48,400
Speaker 3: The funny thing is that I say that, like I

1155
01:02:48,480 --> 01:02:53,800
say I probably could drink at this point, there's that

1156
01:02:53,960 --> 01:02:57,920
saying in AA of like a belly full of beer

1157
01:02:57,960 --> 01:02:59,760
and a mind full of AA is about.

1158
01:03:00,679 --> 01:03:02,159
Speaker 2: So there were.

1159
01:03:02,239 --> 01:03:08,159
Speaker 3: Times when I was going regularly more often where I

1160
01:03:08,280 --> 01:03:12,199
had that mindful of AA and I would have if

1161
01:03:12,239 --> 01:03:16,000
I had anything to drink. I was like, I can't

1162
01:03:16,480 --> 01:03:18,760
give myself over to it in the way that I

1163
01:03:18,960 --> 01:03:22,039
had because I'm too aware of what I'm doing, Like

1164
01:03:22,079 --> 01:03:25,039
I can't, you know, I can't. It can't just be

1165
01:03:25,039 --> 01:03:33,039
a night filled with abandon I'm too aware. I can't

1166
01:03:33,599 --> 01:03:38,440
drink in a drunkish way. I'm drinking like I have

1167
01:03:38,559 --> 01:03:42,960
this sober mindset now. So anyway, I do think if

1168
01:03:43,000 --> 01:03:46,119
I wanted to have a drink with Daniel, I could.

1169
01:03:46,480 --> 01:03:48,400
I don't think it would be one thing leads to

1170
01:03:48,400 --> 01:03:50,719
another inside I I don't know at this point, as

1171
01:03:50,719 --> 01:03:52,480
a married mom of too like where that would go

1172
01:03:53,119 --> 01:03:53,639
in a bad way.

1173
01:03:53,679 --> 01:03:55,280
Speaker 2: I don't think it would go anywhere bad.

1174
01:03:55,400 --> 01:03:59,480
Speaker 3: I think I would just feel sort of physically yucky

1175
01:03:59,559 --> 01:04:00,559
and wish I hadn't.

1176
01:04:01,480 --> 01:04:04,000
Speaker 2: The temptation is truly gone.

1177
01:04:04,440 --> 01:04:08,960
Speaker 3: And I think it's because for me, it was never

1178
01:04:09,039 --> 01:04:12,440
about the alcohol. It was never about the tiny bit

1179
01:04:12,480 --> 01:04:14,239
about the drugs, but less so about the drugs. It

1180
01:04:14,320 --> 01:04:19,800
was about the behaviors that I It's a couple of things.

1181
01:04:20,039 --> 01:04:24,880
It was about I don't know how to be in

1182
01:04:25,800 --> 01:04:29,199
my body, in this room, in this crowd.

1183
01:04:29,199 --> 01:04:30,000
Speaker 2: I don't know how to be.

1184
01:04:30,320 --> 01:04:32,440
Speaker 3: I don't know how like I don't know how to

1185
01:04:32,440 --> 01:04:34,840
make things happen with people. I don't know how to

1186
01:04:34,840 --> 01:04:38,480
do any of it. So I'm gonna get ship faced

1187
01:04:38,519 --> 01:04:40,440
and just see where the night takes me. And that

1188
01:04:40,599 --> 01:04:46,400
was like really fun and really liberating. And I don't

1189
01:04:46,440 --> 01:04:50,239
know how to get to know someone in a sober fashion.

1190
01:04:50,320 --> 01:04:52,960
I don't know how to have intimacy. I don't even

1191
01:04:53,039 --> 01:04:55,840
know the timeframe that intimacy did it supposed to take

1192
01:04:56,000 --> 01:04:58,559
to achieve intimacy. So I'm going to get ship faced

1193
01:04:58,559 --> 01:05:02,320
and go home with someone and rush into something.

1194
01:05:03,199 --> 01:05:06,360
Speaker 2: But with Daniel, it's all so.

1195
01:05:10,039 --> 01:05:15,079
Speaker 3: It's sweet and good and sober and healthy and normal

1196
01:05:15,840 --> 01:05:19,280
that I don't have that temptation to open.

1197
01:05:19,039 --> 01:05:21,280
Speaker 2: The door to like disinhibit in that way.

1198
01:05:22,320 --> 01:05:24,920
Speaker 3: I think I sit around in my bathrobe looking at

1199
01:05:24,920 --> 01:05:29,679
my phone for hours, like I'm pretty disinhibited, arguably too disinhibited.

1200
01:05:30,599 --> 01:05:30,800
Speaker 2: Yeah.

1201
01:05:30,800 --> 01:05:33,480
Speaker 1: I always think though, like, oh, if I ever had

1202
01:05:33,480 --> 01:05:37,599
to date again, like if I, I don't know, be

1203
01:05:37,719 --> 01:05:39,760
really hard. But then again, it was hard for me

1204
01:05:39,840 --> 01:05:42,360
to get I was already married when I got sober,

1205
01:05:42,400 --> 01:05:44,760
and then I had to learn how to be disinhibited

1206
01:05:45,639 --> 01:05:49,000
in a so right way. So things are things are

1207
01:05:49,000 --> 01:05:53,159
tough all over? Yeah, Well it's amazing though, how so

1208
01:05:53,280 --> 01:05:55,400
how long ago was that that you quit drinking?

1209
01:05:57,000 --> 01:06:05,440
Speaker 2: That was? How old were you? I think I was thirty.

1210
01:06:06,239 --> 01:06:07,519
I want to say thirty five.

1211
01:06:09,679 --> 01:06:12,400
Speaker 3: The stuff that I'm describing that happened with that married

1212
01:06:12,440 --> 01:06:17,000
guy was when I was like thirty two or thirty three.

1213
01:06:17,320 --> 01:06:19,559
Speaker 2: But I'd say I probably.

1214
01:06:19,519 --> 01:06:22,239
Speaker 3: Because I had had memories of like having a drink

1215
01:06:22,280 --> 01:06:24,119
here and there, so.

1216
01:06:25,679 --> 01:06:26,519
Speaker 2: I probably think that.

1217
01:06:26,559 --> 01:06:28,039
Speaker 3: I think the last time I had a drink was

1218
01:06:28,159 --> 01:06:32,000
probably thirty five, and I am I just turned fifty, So.

1219
01:06:32,239 --> 01:06:36,119
Speaker 2: You did not. Oh my god, look amazing.

1220
01:06:36,159 --> 01:06:38,320
Speaker 1: So you and I forgot about that because I feel

1221
01:06:38,360 --> 01:06:40,800
like we talked about that when we'd both been at

1222
01:06:40,800 --> 01:06:42,079
were about like ten years over.

1223
01:06:43,199 --> 01:06:46,119
Speaker 2: Probably that sounds about right, like nine or ten. That's

1224
01:06:46,159 --> 01:06:46,880
so interesting.

1225
01:06:46,960 --> 01:06:49,400
Speaker 1: Okay, now we're both so if you're like fifteen and

1226
01:06:49,440 --> 01:06:52,440
I just just turned sixteen years Ober the same.

1227
01:06:53,199 --> 01:06:57,960
Speaker 2: Yeah, funny, Well this was so I don't know.

1228
01:06:58,039 --> 01:06:59,960
Speaker 1: I love talking to you about this kind of stuff,

1229
01:07:00,079 --> 01:07:02,719
and I love your podcast.

1230
01:07:02,920 --> 01:07:06,840
Speaker 2: Thank you. What just your.

1231
01:07:06,519 --> 01:07:09,599
Speaker 1: It's very special, the way that you interact with your guests,

1232
01:07:09,639 --> 01:07:11,679
the way that you interact with me, the way that

1233
01:07:11,760 --> 01:07:17,119
you you you are very natural storyteller and very you know,

1234
01:07:17,280 --> 01:07:20,440
some people are really open and honest, but it almost

1235
01:07:20,440 --> 01:07:24,920
feels affected, like look at how unfiltered I am, but

1236
01:07:25,039 --> 01:07:27,280
you're very You're just a person who it just feels

1237
01:07:27,280 --> 01:07:29,639
like talking to a friend, even though thank you. We're

1238
01:07:29,679 --> 01:07:32,760
doing a podcast, so tell everybody where to find all

1239
01:07:32,760 --> 01:07:33,519
your stuffs.

1240
01:07:33,719 --> 01:07:36,440
Speaker 3: Please check out Alison Rosen is your new best Friend?

1241
01:07:36,559 --> 01:07:38,880
That is my podcast. I have another podcast as well,

1242
01:07:38,920 --> 01:07:41,159
but Alison Rosen's New Best Friend is my main one.

1243
01:07:41,440 --> 01:07:43,679
And then I also do a podcast called Childish with

1244
01:07:43,719 --> 01:07:45,320
Greg Fitzimmons, fellow.

1245
01:07:45,039 --> 01:07:47,599
Speaker 2: Sober person who's been on this podcast. Been on this show, yeah,

1246
01:07:47,639 --> 01:07:48,960
he was one of my first guests.

1247
01:07:49,760 --> 01:07:52,400
Speaker 3: And then check out my Patreon if you would be

1248
01:07:52,400 --> 01:07:56,280
so kind, Patreon, dot com, slash Alison Rosen. All sorts

1249
01:07:56,280 --> 01:07:59,440
of stuff there. I do a couple bonus Patreon podcasts.

1250
01:07:59,480 --> 01:08:01,199
And then I also have a level where you can

1251
01:08:01,239 --> 01:08:02,599
text me and I'll text you back, and I do

1252
01:08:02,679 --> 01:08:05,880
a daily text people at the Confident level and it

1253
01:08:06,000 --> 01:08:08,719
is very juicy because there's all sorts of juicy stuff

1254
01:08:08,719 --> 01:08:11,519
in my life right now that I cannot talk about publicly,

1255
01:08:11,599 --> 01:08:14,760
so I dump it there. And then you also have

1256
01:08:14,800 --> 01:08:17,680
a oh my substack, Yes, I have a substack Alisonrosen

1257
01:08:17,720 --> 01:08:23,479
dot substack dot com. It started I was going to

1258
01:08:23,520 --> 01:08:25,439
tell the story my dad had died, my mom was

1259
01:08:25,479 --> 01:08:25,840
still alive.

1260
01:08:25,840 --> 01:08:27,479
Speaker 2: I was going to tell the story.

1261
01:08:27,079 --> 01:08:30,399
Speaker 3: Of I didn't know I was Jewish until I was

1262
01:08:30,479 --> 01:08:32,680
in my early twenties, and that's a whole crazy story.

1263
01:08:32,720 --> 01:08:34,039
Speaker 2: So I started telling that story.

1264
01:08:34,359 --> 01:08:36,159
Speaker 3: Then I got away from that a little bit, and

1265
01:08:36,199 --> 01:08:38,319
then I was writing about my experience on the Adam

1266
01:08:38,359 --> 01:08:41,600
Corolla Show, which a lot of people want to want

1267
01:08:41,720 --> 01:08:42,720
to hear about.

1268
01:08:42,439 --> 01:08:44,000
Speaker 2: And I was doing that regularly.

1269
01:08:44,199 --> 01:08:47,600
Speaker 3: And then since my mom died, I have found it

1270
01:08:48,439 --> 01:08:50,720
more difficult to be writing about that, but I am

1271
01:08:50,800 --> 01:08:52,279
going to go back to it. I just got to

1272
01:08:52,319 --> 01:08:54,960
find my way back in Okay, And you have a book.

1273
01:08:55,359 --> 01:08:58,920
I do have a book Tropical Tropical Attire Encouraged and

1274
01:08:58,960 --> 01:09:02,079
other phrases that scare me. And it is funny essays

1275
01:09:02,760 --> 01:09:06,359
that are also honest. So check that out, won't you please?

1276
01:09:06,680 --> 01:09:10,199
Speaker 1: All Right, thank you so much, Alison Rosen, everybody, and

1277
01:09:10,279 --> 01:09:12,680
I'll see you next week on drunk Ish Bye.

1278
01:09:13,359 --> 01:09:14,880
Speaker 2: It's gotting

1279
01:09:16,560 --> 01:09:27,119
Speaker 3: Good good, my d