Speaker 1: At a.
Speaker 2: Book.
Speaker 1: If you listened to last week's show, you heard Carl
come on and talk about some horrifying experiences he had
down in Central America about forty five years ago or so. Well,
the encounters took so long to share, we didn't have
enough time for me to ask any questions about those experiences,
So luckily he agreed to come back and answer some
questions for me tonight. Having said all that, let's welcome
back in here now, Carl, thanks so much for coming back.
Speaker 2: Oh, thank you, Vic.
Speaker 1: We really appreciate your time, Carl. Since we had that conversation,
you uncovered a lot of things that weren't easy to
think about. Did you have a lot of trouble with
sleepless nights since that last conversation or did it go
fairly well.
Speaker 2: I had some sleepless nights after our conversation kind of
brought everything back up to the front again, and my
wife helped me through some of it, and I saw
and talked to a priest about some of what was
going on in my mind. It was basically some nightmares
and some PTSD revolving around not only the dog men,
but also some of the things I was involved in
down there that I kind of questioned my own faith
on I can't believe I did some of that stuff.
But anyway, the priests helping me work through that, and
you and my wife have been helping me with the
dog men. And to be honest, I think is to
be spoken, I'm probably more afraid of the men in
block that I am the dog man.
Speaker 1: Well, I can understand that. And you just mentioned your wife.
You sure do have one heck of a support system.
She sure sounds like a great woman.
Speaker 2: Oh she is. She's wonderful. And as far as being wonderful,
she was a Baptist teacher for many years and she's
very well written the scriptures. And basically after my dying
and seeing starting to go to Hell as a wake
up call that even though I believe so strongly in
Jesus and he's my savior, as I found out from
talking to the priests this week, you're not being able
to believe that Jesus could forgive me for some of
the things I did in the interrogations. Well, that shows
that even though I say I believe in Jesus, I
don't wholeheartly believe in the powers of Jesus. If I
can't believe that he can forgive me, so he goes
That's probably was the warning from God that, well, you
think that you fear God and you believe wholeheartedly in Jesus,
you must not believe in his power completely.
Speaker 1: Wow, that's powerful. I'm so glad he told you that.
He's right. Your wife is obviously a very religious lady.
I know she's brought you closer to God. But did
your encounters have any effect on that.
Speaker 2: No, I don't think at the time the encounters didn't
have any effect on that, because I never really saw
anything supernatural in those things. When I was introduced to him.
I mean the very first moment I saw him through
a spotting scope, I was like, I couldn't believe what
I was seeing. I was I was like, I'm being
on a set of a movie. These things are not
not supposed to exist. And then the more we saw
the way they acted and they were you can tell
they were a primary predator, an apex predator, and you
see how cunning they were and how they could actually
learn to learn to live off of the violence that
was going around going on down there so heavily, with
such just an unending supply of food when you consider
how many people were being killed on a daily basis
down there, and just kind of didn't say anything really
so much supernatural in that as I saw them as
more or less animals. And after we overwatched that one
time killed that one with a shot through the eye,
socker were like, Okay, well, these things are sort of
like a grizzly bear. You know, if you want to
bring a bear down, a headshot is the way to
do it. And we kind of thought of it that way.
But as I got a little older and so forth,
and been through some other bad stuff in my life,
it's kind of turned out that I became a stronger
believer in Jesus. And I saw how many times Jesus
had been with me, and I truly believed that my
entire life that I'm never alone because Jesus is with me.
And that helped me down there, and I didn't really
see that he was saving me from a dog ben,
but looking back, I'm sure he was. So I would
have to say at the time, no, that didn't make
me a stronger believer, But as time goes on, yes
it did.
Speaker 1: Well, that's great, that's really good news and for you
to live through so many experiences he had down there,
you must have had some kind of help at least
in my opinion.
Speaker 2: Well, right, I had divine help, because, like I say,
we lost a good number of people down there that
were in our squad and they just being surrounded by
death everywhere. And to walk out of it was it
was a good thing. And something else that I obtained
down there that was kind of a little gift is
I shouldn't say it was a gift, it was. I
was injured by an RPG down there, and it really
really hurt my hearing bad, going off on the wall
right behind us and actually killed my body, but it
threw me down and knocked out a bunch of my hearing.
After recovering a couple of months stayside and being able
to go back, I had lost enough hearing that I
could no longer hear the infrasound. From what they taught
us that these things produce an infrasound if anybody doesn't
know what it is. The big cats like lions and
tigers and hippos and elephants and all these type of
animals that can make a big roar a lot of
times what's in that roars hidden hers of wavelength of
hearing that can cause inhumans or in prey whatever they're chasing.
It can cause paralysis, the fear of paralysis. It can
cause nausea, cause feelings of unease, and a lot of
times people say they feel a severe feeling of dread
or they couldn't move, they felt like they were walking
in lead. Well, that's caused by infra sound. And the
fact that I lost that part of my hearing was
actually helpful to me as far as finishing the rest
of it down there, I want to say, I had
like a year and a half left.
Speaker 1: Wow, I'm so sorry to hear that happened. Yeah, I
didn't know that. You never told me about that.
Speaker 2: And it just.
Speaker 1: Doesn't seem fear. These things have so many advantages over us.
It's not like they needed another ability that would give
them the edge, but that infrasound ability clearly does.
Speaker 2: I say. That's why I think that a lot of times,
I'm not saying that they'll never hurt people, or though
they wouldn't haunt people, I mean, maybe they will. There's
cases of what I'm sure, but a lot of times
they play with us like a cat plays with a
mouse and then when they get tired. How many times
you've seen a house cat just turn around and walk
off and let the mouse run away. They're tired of
playing with it, and they, like they said, they're kind
of an arrogant predator. And the fact that they know
that they're the top alpha predator, just like a lion
out on the plans in Africa, that uses in for
some they can actually paralyze their tray momentarily. I mean,
they're so big and strong and fast with claws and teeth,
they really don't need the one more advantage, but nature
gave it to them.
Speaker 1: Yeah, they definitely don't need any more edges. You're right.
Earlier you said some things that gave me the impression
that you don't believe that they're supernatural beings. And if
that's a case, if they're not supernatural beings, why do
you think it was that you had that encounter state
side after you came back on that pool off that night.
Speaker 2: Well, to be honest with you, Vick, I'm not sure
if they're supernatural or have some supernatural abilities or something
supernatural about them. I'm as centers of the question. I
mean back of the time. During the first time I
lived through that in down in Central America, I had
thought that they weren't supernatural, they were just some kind
of an animal and that we were dealing with because
we were able to kill them. But the older I
get looking back and hearing some of these things, there
might be something about them and supernatural, because it's just
amazing how they how well they understand the human being.
I would almost have to say when you look in
their eyes and you see intelligence in their eyes. And
I don't mean intelligence like your dog or your cat.
I mean it's like looking at a person looking back
at you. And just because we don't speak the same
language doesn't mean that they don't understand the human better
than the human understands itself. So, oh yeah, I would
say there might be something supernatural to them, and we
just haven't found out what yet. And we're approaching a
species that's foreign to us. So and there's been so
many different types as well as different types of encounters,
it's hard just to draw a line down the middle
and say, yes, this is it.
Speaker 1: Oh definitely, yeah. I couldn't agree more and understand. I'm
not trying to say that you're right about this, You're
wrong about that. I'm just posing questions for you that
maybe you hadn't thought about this or that in a
particular way. So by posing this question or that question,
it might open up thought passages and routes that maybe
hadn't gone down before. So just wanted to make sure
you understood that it is awfully ironic that here you've
had all these encounters down there in Central America, and
then after you come back Stateside, years and years later,
you have another encounter. What are the odds of that?
So yeah, that's why I asked you that question. But
let's talk more about your wife. When did you tell
her about your dog, mean, the encounters for the first time,
and when you did, how did she respond?
Speaker 2: Well, I want to say the first time was probably
two years ago, and that was just because I was
I was speaking out a lot when I was sleeping
because I had PTSD for years, and most of the
time she couldn't understand me. But I guess it was
probably maybe two years or a little over two years ago.
She could understand my dreaming a lot better or hear
what I was saying, what I was talking about, and
she overheard me on a telephone call than a couple
of days later, when I was talking to my one
buddy that lives in Illinois that had gone you know,
was one of my squad team members. Anyway, after I
got off the phone, she goes, there's something you like
to talk about. And I says, well, yeah, I said,
if you heard any of that, And she goes, well,
it's been longer than that, And I said, what do
you mean. She said, well, you've been pretty vocal when
you're sleeping and cooking all the covers off the bed,
and she was I got up and sat in the chair,
So the figure going to hit me while you were sleeping?
And she said, well. I told her then about the
dog men down there, what i'd actually seen. And I
didn't go into detail about a lot of the things
to day, that's between me and Jesus. But I did
tell her about the dog men and about them eating
the dead and following us around, or following the rebels around.
Is knowing that there was going to be a gun back,
they'd stay back in the in the jungle far enough
that they'd wait for the humans to leave, and then
they'd swoop in and they'd start eating. So she was
kind of mortified, kind of couldn't believe it at first.
She I mean she believed I told her. She goes
she was like, oh my god. She goes like demons.
And I said, well, I said, you look back at
it kind of like demons when I look at them
at the time, and still do. I guess they were
just animals. And she goes, what started off so bad
that you remember these things? I said, Oh, that's when
I walked in and you're a girlfriend was staying with us,
and she was watching that movie about vampires fighting were wolves.
I don't know what the name of the movie is, is
some famous movie, but anyway, Underworld, Underworld. I said, yeah,
some of the werewolves we dealt with down there looked
similar to the those I mean, not exactly, but they
look similar. And I said, seeing droves of them attacking
people and eating dead people, I said, they kind of
just brought it right back to the forefront of my
memoir of my dreams, my everything. And so I told
her the whole thing then and there, and after that,
we'd gone back to the Midwest, and we swung through
Chicago and visited my one buddy and his wife, and
he'd told his wife years ago, and let he started
talking about it, and because his wife asked, did Carl
tell you the same stuff? And she's like, yea, And
it matched word for word with what her husband had
told her. She's like, oh my god. She goes, she's
hard to believe that things like this on earth exist.
Then my wife goes, yeah, she goes. But sometimes with
as close as some of these monsters aren't TV it
makes you want wonder if the people that designed these
things or write these stories might have had an encounter
of their own.
Speaker 1: She's got a point. Yeah, it does make you wonder.
Does she seem like she wanted to go hide someplace
to unpack all the things that you shared with her
about dogmen when you did?
Speaker 2: Yeah, she kind of. It took her a couple of
days to decompress. And I was really worried after I
told her that stuff, and she was, why didn't you
tell me before? When I saw because I I didn't
think you believe me. I mean, it's it's it just
sounds so far fetched, like some made up story. I said,
didn't think you believe me? I said, I didn't ever
want to create doubt in your mind about my sanity.
Speaker 1: All those concerns are definitely understandable. But you have the
experiences that you had, and I'm so glad you got
her in your corner. Thank goodness. How much harder do
you think it would be for you to deal with
all those experiences with dogmen if she wasn't in your
life helping you the way she has, Oh.
Speaker 2: It would be harder. I'd still be questioning my own
sanity and probably suffering from the PTSD that I did.
I mean, that's kind of really gone down a lot,
and some of the stuff that I have now is
more is more interrogation related than it is the dogman related.
But I have this one dream sometimes at night that
I'm in a totally white hallway and I'm chasing this
little dogman down the hallway, a little one, and I'm
trying to step on him before, you know, to wipe
him out. And as I'm chasing him, he's getting bigger
and bigger and bigger, until we get to the end
of the hallway and he's huge, and then he chases
me back down the other way, trying to get me,
and we go back and forth like that, and you
wake up and you're so tired. It feels like you
haven't slept at all. And the wife will tell him.
She'll go to me, She'll say, well, what were you doing?
She goes, you must have been running somewhere, and I says,
I was chasing a dog man down a white hallway.
She goes, why would you chase one of those things?
I said, because it was little and I was trying
to step on him before he got big. And then
he turned around he was huge and was chasing me,
trying to eat me before we got into the hallway
and I got big. Doesn't make any sense, but that's
what the dream is.
Speaker 1: I can only imagine what it must be like to
have a nightmare like that to look forward to, because yea,
it sounds like that's a nightmare you've had time after time.
That's not good. Have you given your wife any instructions
regarding what to do if she has an encounter of
her own at your farm when you're not there.
Speaker 2: Carl, Yeah, Basically I told her the same thing that
they taught us in the training down there, to kind
of look down a little bit, keep your eye on it,
see to see what it's moment. Start look down a
little bit and back up slowly and moving forward to you.
Just keep backing up slowly, and they don't they're not
afraid of the light, but they really don't like light.
And we've got motion detectors on our barns and our
motion lights on our house and our barn says, get
back into that circle if you can to where the
head the big lights come on, and then keep backing up. Now,
she always carries just like I do. And I've got
a real lumin touch light on her pistol too, so
she can just touch it and it goes on super bright.
I told her the same thing. I said, if you
ever have to, if you feel that the attack is imminent,
I told her to shoot it in the eye, not
to screw around. If it goes down, get away from it.
You lock yourself in the house, I told her. First
first thing is try to lock yourself in a vehicle.
Are in the house. Because we live on the country,
our keys are always in all of our vehicles. I said,
get in there and just get away from the farms.
Fall possible.
Speaker 1: Well, it goes with that, saying, I sure hope that
never does happen.
Speaker 2: I hope not too. But where we're at there, there
have been some dog quite a few dog men signings
and throughout the state we live in.
Speaker 1: Yeah, there have been encounters all over that state. When
we recorded last week's show, Carl, you told us how
you're raised not to believe in anything supernatural or pureanormal,
other than to believe in Christ and God. Do you
think being brought up like that hindered your ability to
deal with coming to the realization that dogmen't exist or
was a non factor.
Speaker 2: I think it was kind of actually a non factor.
I mean, because my grandma taught us all kinds of
superstitions and beliefs, and because she was very much into
the spiritual world and a strong believer in Christ. But
also like she always taught us, there's an opposite for
everything in the world, and there's an opposite for Jesus,
and she said, that's what you have to be careful
not to bring upon yourself. And Dad was the one
that was had no time for any of that. We
had so many chores to do that there's no time
for sitting around watching monster movies or telling the spooks
stories of the campfire. You know, He's like, you got
time for that? We can get some more work done today.
And I think that kind of made a non thing
because the first time I saw those things, I couldn't
believe what I was seeing. But at the same time,
I didn't take them as anything other than some other,
some kind of strange animal. And you had to remember,
half the stuff I saw down in South America I
had never seen before. I was just some old country
kid from up North America. And down there we had
you know, he had crocodiles, he had taper, had got
only kind of they had birds all over the place
that you only saw in zoos, you know, back up
in the States. And so, I mean, I just thought
it was one more kind of kind of strange thing
that you know, was just learn about. So I guess
I'd have to say that was really kind of a
non thing. It's not until I've gotten older now and
done a lot of soul searching and done some research
on these things since I started talking to you. I mean,
I've done more research on these since I started talking
to you. Were slightly before than the rest of my life.
I just kind of kept following the back of my
mind and hoping that a lot of my memories would
go away.
Speaker 1: Well, I'm so glad you did all that research, because
the more you know about what you fear, the less
you fear it. So that's a good thing. It definitely is.
When you were briefed on the rules of engagement, you
were told that the dog men wouldn't harm you if
you didn't threaten them. After what happened to that man
on your patrol, how sure are you that that's accurate
information about them now?
Speaker 2: Well s, Yeah, that's the thing. I don't know what
he did if he tried to drop a beat on
one and that set it off, or was that a
rogue dogmen? I think it might have been a rogue
is the reason LT gave Overwatch to go on the
green light to go ahead and take it. You know,
we were not allowed to fire on those things, and
here he had Overwatch take that one though. The one
that we nicknamed, we used to nickname him the Dude,
just because he was dark black, but he had kind
of a grayish edge on the maine on each side
of him. He looked like he was one of them
old famous movie stars wearing a tuxedo. So we used
to call him the Dude, you know, Like I said,
we had little nicknames for all of them. And the
little brown the little brown one that was kind of
a lot skinnier, and his hair looked like you give
it a rite inside of a dryer oil or something.
The native one down there, we used to call that
one Grandpa, because it had some heir in his face,
but not not much like it lost a lot of
its hair in his face, and so we used to
call it Grandpa.
Speaker 1: I'm glad you came up with all these names for them,
because that's another good tactic to compensate for all the fear.
Why do you think it is that so many eyewitnesses
have been caught dead to rights by these things, carl,
but allowed to leave their encounters without suffering as much
as it scratch.
Speaker 2: Well, Like I say, I think it's a couple of reasons. One,
I think that more than anything, these things like the
toy with us, like a cat like it with a mouse,
I think they get off on the fear that they
instill in us. They enjoy it because they are arrogant,
the fact that they know that they are the top predator.
And I also think part of it comes from two
is us humans. If you look at us, we don't
have a lot of the meat they crave on us.
I mean, they really love the soft organs. Now you
take a deer, a calf, a hog, a wild bore,
or anything like that, their gut sacks, so to call
it as much much larger than what a humans is.
And when they interact with the human, I think they're
more likely you just want to scare us away from
their area so that we don't bother them, because I
think that they know that humans if they have any
interaction with them, it's not much longer they start having
a lot more and more and more interaction. And there's
something we really can't get rid of. There's not enough
meat on us to make us that enticing to them,
unless they're starving or something like that, or if we
challenge their dominance, because that's like any animal, the animal
can't keep including humans. You want to see the ugly
side of something, you challenge its dominance.
Speaker 1: Yeah, thank goodness, they don't seem to be that interested
in feeding on us when we're alive. At least, it'd
be a lot worse if that wasn't the keys. When
you had your first encounter down there, you said that
you saw six of them. It's bad enough to see
one when you've never seen a dog man before. But
how much harder do you think it was on you
to see some many of them together when you had
that first encounter.
Speaker 2: Well, I think it really helped drive home the point
that it existed. When you see more than one like
that and instantly takes it out of your mind that, oh,
there's somebody dressed up like a wolf trying to scare everybody.
I mean, obviously in an a war zone there wouldn't
be because there's be no point to it. All you
can do is get yourself shot. But it kind of
drives home the point that they're real instantly. I mean,
we saw that was the big alpha. It was two
mid sized ones, and then two little bit smaller ones,
and then the number six was the one we called Grandpa,
the little brown one which followed them around, but he
was a cast off. He didn't get near anything until
everybody was done. And I don't know if it was
so much an organized pack as it was just just
an eating order. The big guy got to choose what
he wanted and then it went on down to where
when they were finished and already moving off through the jungle,
then the little brown one would come out, and as
far as your question goes, I think that it really
helped drive it home and it was real.
Speaker 1: Well seeing his believing and talking about that alpha, I
can understand why no one else did challenge him after
seeing how he dealt with that subordinate that stepped out
of line. He told us about the near death experience
he had in twenty team. But I can't remember when
you said you saw that dog mean at the pull
off state side. Did that encounter happen before or after
you had that nd No.
Speaker 2: That was after.
Speaker 1: It was after. Okay. The reason why I asked you
that question was because I didn't know if you were
aware of the fact that people who have had NDEs
are more likely, it seems, to have dog mean encounters
than people who haven't. Did you know that?
Speaker 2: Oh? No, I didn't. I'd never heard that.
Speaker 1: Yeah, it does seem to open up the gates for
whatever reason, I don't know. Now, some of the listeners,
Carl might be wondering why you'd want to live in
the country after experiencing all the horrific dog mean encounters
you've had. What would you say to those people about that?
Speaker 2: Well, this sounds kind of kind of a strange thing
to say, but I've been generations in the country. I
love the country. I wouldn't know how to get along
and living in the city. And the other thing is
too what I saw in Central America. I think the
humans the humans are, I don't know, more degenerate than
what the dogmen were. And I just after what I
saw and experience down there, I just didn't want to
be around crowds of people at all. I liked being
separated from people a little bit, knowing who my neighbors
were and having some space between me and them. And
if a diverge came across the dogmen again, then I
deal with that. At that point in time, if him
and I could coexist without taking it to a fight, great.
If it had to come to a fight, then one
of us wouldn't survive. But I was just more lary
of the humans in the city than I was the
dogmen in the country. I'd never seen a dogmen in
the country, and I've been raised in the country, so
I thought, well, how many of them can there be?
But then I started, like when I before I called you,
I started looking on maps about dog men sightings the
United States and Canada, and Mexidon. I'm like, oh my god,
there's thumbtacks all over the board. There really is no
place that they aren't.
Speaker 1: Yeah, sure seems that way. And I don't blame you
for wanting to live in the country even though you've
had these encounters, because I feel the same way. There's
just nothing like living out in the sticks. I'm sure
there are a lot of people who are listening who've
had encounters, who are horrified by what they heard you
share about your experiences down there in Central America. Is
there anything you'd like to tell them that might help
calm their nerves.
Speaker 2: Well, all I can tell them is the same thing
I learned, and it has worked for me, was if
you have an opportunity back away from them. Don't turn
and run because if they want to run you down,
these things are so fast a human cannot outrun them,
but just sort of slink off, even like the other
dogmen did to the big Alpha. They'd kind of slink
off looking at him. Let him be the winner. Who
cares what he thinks or I mean, who cares? Just
don't make any sudden movements at him, And if you
do have to, if you think an attack is emminent,
shine him in the eyes real quick, because it takes
them that only gives you a few seconds. And if
you have to ever shoot one, shoot in the eye
because you probably don't have enough ammunition to shoot center
masks and have it bleed out before it can kill you.
They're a lot like grizzly bears. You know, you hear
a lot of encounters out in the wild where someone
will have a forty four magnum or a large caliber
pistol and they'll empty it into a charging grizzly bear,
and the bear can still run thirty thirty five mile
an hour over a big distance and kill the person
before they bleed out. Same kind of thing with the
dog man. The other thing I would say too, it
always helps out have dogs with you, to have animals
with you, because animals can sense them and while you
don't want your dog to run off and try to
protect you and can tell you, hey, there's something wrong
in the area, get out and don't stay. The other
thing I'd say we learned too was about the infrasound.
If you start feeling a real bad feeling in dread,
or kind of get aches and pains, or you'd feel
kind of nauseous. Get out of the area, just leave
you go back, cancel your dame, move your activities somewhere else,
do whatever, because that's a good sign that there's one around.
And the best way to survive an encounter is to
avoid the encounter.
Speaker 1: That's all really good advice. I'm sure there are also
tons of listeners who are wondering why you didn't bring
back any pictures of the dog in Yesa on Central America.
What would you care to say to those people about that?
Speaker 2: Well, I can tell them that what we were doing
down there, we weren't allowed to have any cameras. The
only people that had cameras were the forensic people, and
they were taking pictures of the bodies. Now I can't
tell you if they ever took any pictures of them.
We got all of our luggage and everything got checked
before we went back to base or state side. They
didn't leave anything to chance. It wasn't so much they
were worried about the dog men, but that was one
of the things that we weren't allowed to really talk
about or have any pictures of. So it wasn't that
we had a chance to have pictures of them. Because
there was no chance. None of us had cameras or
anything you get a member. Back in those days, there
was no cell phones, and they had satellite phones, but
they didn't do any except my calls up and down
to the satellite. The first phones I had were came
with bags and like a fifty foot court of the
metal antennae stuck on her roof, I regard. So there
were none of these fancy little phones that we could
snapped pictures with. You know, that's the thing that a
lot of listeners nowadays, if they're younger, they forget these
phones are relatively recent invention, So there was no opportunity
or there was no chance or opportunity. And these people
were not somebody to screw with. I mean they in
part of our training, they laid down the law to us,
and what would happen if we broke any of their rules?
And prison wasn't something that I wanted to get involved
in a nice early age like that.
Speaker 1: Can't say I blame you, Yeah, it's not my idea
fun either. Your experiences clearly aren't easy for you to
talk about. Why did you decide to come on the
show and do that to share the experiences?
Speaker 2: Well, my wife and I talked about. She thought it'd
be a really good thing to get off of my chest,
to get you know, she said, you've told me the
other guys that told their wives. She goes, but you
guys are dying off. You're the last three guys left
out of the fifteen. And it turns out that there
was three hundred of us to begin with in this program.
When there's sixteen of us left. She goes, whether anybody
ever believes it or ever knows about it, or maybe
they come something comes out twenty years from now, great,
she goes, but get it off your chest. That's one
way to have things put hunting if you get them
off your chest. And talking to you Vic has helped
me tremendously, and I just felt like after talking to
you last week, I felt like a big weight was
lifted off of me. And talking to Father Dan has
been an enormous help too. I just feel so much
better and my beliefs and everything now after speaking to
him and speaking to you, and thank God for my
wife helping me as much as she has.
Speaker 1: I'm so glad you have all this help from so
many different directions. That's really good, and that's what this
is all about It's all about exposure. The more you
talk about these experiences, that easier it's going to be
to think and deal with them. Do you walk around
in the woods around your farm or avoid them as
much as possible?
Speaker 2: No, I've I walked around the woods eve when I
came back right away. I've been, but it Wood's been
all my life, I mean, and I've always been well armed.
I mean, I probably takes a false sense of security
in that, but I will say one thing. After seeing
those I upgraded what I carried. I used to want
it to be out in the woods and stuff. I'd
carry a nine millimeter and it maybe on my side
by side or something. I many fourteen. Well, I upgraded
that up to a nice model lover Action forty five
seventy and I you know, I carry a ten milimeter
clock and I've got a four fifty four cassole snub
nose that I carries my back up. It's due to
see seeing the dog men and realizing how much they
weigh and how big they are there. It's basically the
same thing as shooting a grizzly bear that's attacking you.
You've got to have something proportionate to what you carry.
And even if I'm hunting in the woods, I haven't
bowl hunted for years, but I used to bow hunt deer.
I'd still carry my ten millimeter my casole with me.
Not that I would ever shoot a dog man or
shoot one and kill one unless I absolutely had to
if it were trying to basically eat me. Because I
honestly believe too that if you shoot one and wound
one and you don't finish it, now you've really got
your hands full.
Speaker 1: Yeah, that's how normally is, and I hopeing whatever comes
to that that wouldn't be good. I walked miles and
miles in one of the big woods here where I
live without anyone else with me. I also go unarmed
as well. Do you see that as being a crazy
thing for me to do or do you think it's
no big deal?
Speaker 2: No, I don't think it's crazy, vic, because that's the
way I was for years before I went down there.
I mean, I'd spent my whole life playing in the woods,
working on the woods, whatever, and didn't worry about anything,
you know, until I came back from there. I was like,
oh my god, you know these things are supposed to
be when I learned out. Learned before I opted out
was that a lot of these things that they'd captured
and trapped were from from North America. So I'm like, well, okay,
well better at least be armed. But I never saw
one in any of the woods up here, So I
had no reason to would have any reason to think
that you were being remiss of it, because you've probably
never seen one of the woods and I had never
seen one until twenty twenty one in the woods up
here in North America.
Speaker 1: Yeah, you never have an encounter until you do. It's
like a lot of other things in life.
Speaker 2: I've never seen one before, so I mean up here.
So I thought, well, you know, no, you're probably right,
Vick walking around and like most of the encounters the
people have told you about, they basically left unharmed, and
I'm sure there's some people that have been disappeared by them.
So myself, I've just always been armed. And to be
honest with you, I carry them more for the weirdo
you might meet in the woods than I do for
the dog man.
Speaker 1: That's a valid concern. Your experiences with dogmen have taught
you a lot about them, but what have they taught
you about yourself.
Speaker 2: Well, I'd have to say one thing they did was
they really taught me, in a bad situation to calm down.
And I know this sounds crazy because your first reaction is,
you know, all your hair stand on end and you
jump forty foot up in a tree, you know. But
I've learned to calm down, and I think that's what
helped me through my last dog man encounter, was I
was able to realize right away what it was to do.
All of a sudden, my training kick back in and
I kept my head and a second later I was
in my car with the door shut, back it up. Granted,
it could have chased me out, jumped on the truck, whatever,
and it didn't. But part of that was it was
getting what it wanted I was leaving. I think that
it's taught me to look at a situation before I react,
because I think when I was younger, even down there,
it was very much a reactionary and I think that
it taught me not to react. Like my dad always
just say said, don't engage your muscles before you clutch
your brain. You just put your brain in gear before
you put the muscles in gear. And he's right about that.
Think about what the situation does for a split second.
Speaker 1: Yeah, that's always good advice. And I'm sure it's not
lost on you all the thought you've put into your experiences.
I'm sure you realize that when you were down there
in the jungles, they could have gotten you if they
wanted to really get you. And you already touched on
the fact that you know that that night at the
pull off, if that dog man wanted to get you,
it could have gotten you. But it didn't because it
was just cat and mouse. That's all there was to it.
Speaker 2: Well, to be honest with you, too, Vic, that last
last encounter, the truck that I was sitting in, it
was I left an idol because it was a cool
light cool light air, you know, and it left it,
I don't say, with the heater on real lull and
it's one of these new cheves where if it's running,
the light stay on. And I think it was irritating him,
to be honest, with the noise running though you know
that here is a dog min. It's his woods are
peaceful and quiet. He's enjoying it quiet evening and some
guy pulls in and with his truck run and leaves
it run and just sits there and runs with the
light on, lighting up that whole little pull off area.
I think I was aggravating him and he just wanted
to be gone.
Speaker 1: That makes really good sense, and you're probably right, that's
probably what was behind all that. And yeah, if you
had the truck running, the heater was on, I mean,
if it wanted to sneak up and grab you, they
could have done that and there wouldn't have been anything
you could have done to stop that. But that didn't
happen because it obviously didn't want that to happen. It
didn't want to rip you apart. It just wanted you to.
Speaker 2: Leave, so right, and it got what it wanted.
Speaker 1: That's right, it got would have wanted, just wanted you
out of there.
Speaker 2: And the ones down in Central America, they they could
have killed us in a heartbeat, because we would when
we go on patrols. Well, like I told you, we'd
sit with our backs to a stump and a circle
looking outward. And during the wet season we'd sleep with
our ponchos and this like netting over top of us
keep the mosquitoes out. But we'd sleep with our ponchos on,
so the water would shut off us as much as
it could. Looking outward, and you can see the glowing
eyes sometimes out in the jungle in the woods. Well
as fast as they were, they could easily run through
there before we even seen them in those big claws
and just opened up two or three guys like a
can of tuna. I have no doubts in my mind
that had they wanted us dead, we wouldn't have made
it out of there.
Speaker 1: It's so good you understand that, And I want anyone
listening who's so freaked out about the possibility of having
another encounter after hearing all these horrific experiences of Carl's
shared with us here on this two part show, I
want you to understand that as well. Yeah, I get
the tear that you feel when you have an account
with one of these guys, but please remember, these guys
have so many opportunities to take people out that they
don't act upon. That right there should tell you that
these guys are not wired to rip you apart as
soon as the opportunity presents itself. Yes, like we've already
touched on tonight, you will have deviant examples of dog
men that aren't right in the head, that are dangerous,
and they will kill you if the opportunity presents itself.
But these guys are not, as a group wired to
do that. So please keep that in mind. I really
hope all of you do. It's not lost on you
that they are actually people who go into the woods
with the sole intent of bagging one of these things. Carl,
what are your thought.
Speaker 2: Well, I think they're playing with the fire. I'm not
saying these things can't be killed. I mean, obviously they
can be. But it's like a guy that goes out
after hunting after a grizzly bear or Kodiak brown bear,
the only thing he's ever hunted is a black bear.
And I hope there's a reason that the state of
Alaska requires if you get a tag for a bear,
you have to hire a licensed, trained guide because people
can quickly get in over their heads so fast they
don't realize it, and going out after something like this
is just I don't know. I think it's myself. I
think it's nuts, but I think you're asking for more
than what you want. Now, if this were like some
movie where they were starting to kill a whole bunch
of people and it's a war. Well, then it's a
war then, I know, okay, obviously, But just to go
out in the woods looking for these things and think
you're going to bag one, that's the same mindset as
people think they'd go out in the woods and bag
a bigfoot. You know, there's some things that are better
left alone.
Speaker 1: Oh, definitely, Yeah, there's no future in that. That's a
good way to get yourself killed. After having all the
encounters that you've had, including the one state side, do
you think that your days of having encounters are behind
you or do you think you might have another one
or two down the road. After all the conversations we've had,
you'd think i'd have a good beat on that, But
I still don't.
Speaker 2: Well, to be honest with you, Vic, I hope I don't. Well,
you know, I hope I never seen one again. I mean,
but especially with my wife and my animals. I mean,
I love our little farm dearly. I don't want anything
around them if we go through the National Forest. Now,
we're both old enough now that going to the National
Forest for us is like pulling off on one of
the scenic overlooks and having a picnic sitting there with
the dogs. I don't need to go out back back
it anymore. I don't enough of that in my life,
and I just I hope I don't have any more,
to be honest with you, and for anybody that does
have them in the future, my prayers are with you.
I hope that they go well and in the end
and you're survive everything. Maybe a little trauma. Kol Vic.
He's wonderful about helping out get it off of your chest.
Here's the thing I thought about my last encounter two.
I felt so lucky driving away and seeing that thing
standing there that I hadn't shot it through the eye.
You know, you got these people that go out and
want to hunt them. I don't know if any of
these things have been chipped. You know, there's that big
rabbit hole too. And now if you do shoot one
or your bag one, you want to tell anybody about it?
How long is it until the guy's in black show
up knock on your door. And I'm more afraid of
those guys than I am. More afraid of the men
in black than I am the dog men. It's like
I explained to you last time, all the ways, all
the roots and fingers they have that can reach in
your life and totally destroy it and everybody you love.
It's just not worth it.
Speaker 1: You're right, it's definitely not worth it at all. And
I can understand you having that fear of them. But
I really don't think you've done anything to cross them
where they would pay you a visit. I really don't.
If I did think that you had, then I would
tell you I'm shooting you straight. I really don't think
you have anything to worry about.
Speaker 2: It at all. Well, that's true. I'm not doing anything
to try to bring them on, but I'm warning other
people too. You know, as far as guys want to
go out and bag of dog men, you know, to
what are you going to try and show it off?
Or are you going to take pictures of it? I mean,
what you're really doing is inviting a world to hurt you.
If the dog man doesn't hurt you, the men in black.
Speaker 1: Will, Oh sure. Either're trying to fight a battle they
just can't possibly win. There's no winning that.
Speaker 2: Right, So I just don't understand the mindset of wanting
to go out and bag one.
Speaker 1: That makes two of us, it really does. Well, it's
about time for us to get out if you're a Carl,
But before we do, do you have any clothes in
comments you'd like to put out there for us?
Speaker 2: Just thank you very much, Victor for your help, bother Dan,
my beautiful wife. I like to thank all of them.
I'd like to tell everybody that's had a doc man
visit that adversely affected them encounter. God bless you, and
I hope God stays with you and walks with you
in all you do. And I pray for me and
I hope for good things for everybody. And if you've
had an experience, please don't try to set up another
experience so you can take pictures or shoot it, because
not only that's only going to lead to heartache and
headache down the road. Let it drift off into a memory.
Speaker 1: That's all very good advice, very well said. And Carl,
you're living proof that bad things sometimes happen to very
good people. I'm so sorry you had to experience all this,
I really am, But like I told you, I'm so
glad you have such a group of people around you
trying to help you deal with this experience or these experiences.
But having said that, thanks against so much for your
time and have a great night
Speaker 2: As English