WEBVTT 1 00:00:00.800 --> 00:00:01.360 Okay, we're live. 2 00:00:01.399 --> 00:00:04.120 How does William Ramsey Welcome to William Ramsey investigates on 3 00:00:04.120 --> 00:00:06.360 today's show of a very special guest, a returning guest. 4 00:00:06.839 --> 00:00:09.400 His name is john Ney, and we've talked twice in 5 00:00:09.480 --> 00:00:12.720 twenty twenty one. The first time was about a book 6 00:00:12.720 --> 00:00:15.199 he rais written many books this one. The first one 7 00:00:15.240 --> 00:00:19.199 was The Next Great Reformation ninety six, theces for Reclaiming 8 00:00:19.280 --> 00:00:22.719 Jesus's Everlasting Kingdom. And then we talked about a book 9 00:00:22.719 --> 00:00:25.239 he published this year as well, and it's about his 10 00:00:25.440 --> 00:00:29.559 kind of experience in the movie industry and about Joseph 11 00:00:29.600 --> 00:00:31.559 as somebody who I'm interested in as well. And that 12 00:00:31.719 --> 00:00:35.759 title of that book was seventy a D. I think 13 00:00:35.759 --> 00:00:37.520 it was published in April twenty twenty one, and we 14 00:00:37.560 --> 00:00:40.439 talked about the book in June twenty twenty one. And 15 00:00:40.759 --> 00:00:42.719 so a list of some of his other books are 16 00:00:42.840 --> 00:00:46.159 Perfect Ending for the World twenty eleven, A Greater Jesus 17 00:00:46.240 --> 00:00:50.159 twenty twelve, Off Target eighteen, Bulls Eyes Exposed twenty twelve, 18 00:00:50.240 --> 00:00:54.000 Unraveling the End twenty fourteen, and Hell Yes, Hell No 19 00:00:54.119 --> 00:00:57.840 published twenty fifteen, and Once Mighty Faith twenty sixteen. 20 00:00:58.119 --> 00:01:04.079 His website is www. Prophecy refi dot org. So it's 21 00:01:04.159 --> 00:01:07.480 prophecy r e f i dot org. You also has 22 00:01:07.519 --> 00:01:09.840 a YouTube channel titled Greater Than We Believe. 23 00:01:10.560 --> 00:01:13.680 And uh, I think it's a very timely subject, this 24 00:01:13.959 --> 00:01:16.319 creation of evil and what it is. It's a real 25 00:01:16.480 --> 00:01:19.760 it's definitely kind of like a stumbling block for people 26 00:01:19.920 --> 00:01:23.400 when they look at certain religions, particularly Christianity. 27 00:01:23.439 --> 00:01:25.599 But John can talk more about that show. John Noy, 28 00:01:25.840 --> 00:01:28.159 welcome back to the show. Thanks for coming back. Yeah, 29 00:01:28.280 --> 00:01:31.680 William going to be with you once again, even for 30 00:01:31.760 --> 00:01:34.519 the second time today. Huh right, it feels like aw 31 00:01:34.680 --> 00:01:35.280 all over again. 32 00:01:35.719 --> 00:01:35.840 Uh. 33 00:01:37.000 --> 00:01:40.719 I'm gonna let your audience in on a little secret here. Okay, 34 00:01:41.079 --> 00:01:45.079 we already did the opening of this for about ten 35 00:01:45.200 --> 00:01:48.120 or twelve minutes, and because of the nature of what 36 00:01:48.159 --> 00:01:52.439 we're doing, somebody cut us off. That's right. There was 37 00:01:52.519 --> 00:01:57.680 definitely some form of interloper. Now I'm not gonna say 38 00:01:57.719 --> 00:02:01.439 it was evil, but and by the way, I am 39 00:02:01.519 --> 00:02:04.760 not an expert on evil. Now, I've read a lot 40 00:02:04.799 --> 00:02:07.239 about evil, I've written about evil, but I have not 41 00:02:07.560 --> 00:02:10.439 experienced a lot of evil, So I can't say that 42 00:02:10.960 --> 00:02:13.360 cutting us off after the first twelve minutes of our 43 00:02:13.680 --> 00:02:17.039 interview earlier today was an evil thing, but it could 44 00:02:17.039 --> 00:02:18.800 have been. 45 00:02:18.840 --> 00:02:21.639 Well, I think that's an important way to look at it. 46 00:02:21.759 --> 00:02:24.439 Is what is the definition of evil? We talked in 47 00:02:24.439 --> 00:02:27.840 our earlier conversation that that's the finish of the Lord's 48 00:02:27.879 --> 00:02:31.039 prayer is delivers from evil. But how do you define evil? 49 00:02:31.120 --> 00:02:34.199 Is evil different? Is there an external understanding that everybody 50 00:02:34.240 --> 00:02:39.400 can agree to or is it a subjective kind of definition? 51 00:02:39.520 --> 00:02:42.199 What do you think? How about the opposite of God's love? 52 00:02:44.159 --> 00:02:47.240 How about this? I mean, you know, we could we 53 00:02:47.240 --> 00:02:52.000 could get into all sorts of esoteric kind of discussions 54 00:02:52.000 --> 00:02:55.280 on that, but I'm going to suggest we start at 55 00:02:55.280 --> 00:02:57.719 the beginning. Okay, good, How does that sound for you? 56 00:02:58.000 --> 00:03:02.080 Sounds great? And the best way I have found William 57 00:03:02.120 --> 00:03:05.280 to get involved in a serious subject like this, and 58 00:03:05.400 --> 00:03:09.280 even a depressing subject like this for some people, is 59 00:03:09.280 --> 00:03:11.879 with a little humor. So what do you say we 60 00:03:11.919 --> 00:03:15.800 do it that way? Okay? Can you see this cartoon? Yes? 61 00:03:16.520 --> 00:03:18.719 You can? Your viewers see that? Am I holding it 62 00:03:18.759 --> 00:03:19.000 right now? 63 00:03:19.080 --> 00:03:21.120 I think You've got it just right. That's perfect right there. 64 00:03:21.560 --> 00:03:23.520 That's in your book, that's in the intro at your book. 65 00:03:23.719 --> 00:03:27.039 It is and it's a picture of a guy going 66 00:03:27.159 --> 00:03:31.759 up to a information booth in a shopping mall and 67 00:03:31.800 --> 00:03:35.000 the lady is sitting behind it, and he asks her 68 00:03:35.039 --> 00:03:39.680 this question. He says, if God is all knowing and 69 00:03:39.800 --> 00:03:44.039 all good and all powerful, why does he allow evil? 70 00:03:45.080 --> 00:03:48.439 And her response and the response is or the caption 71 00:03:48.599 --> 00:03:53.479 now below it in the bottom says, improper use of 72 00:03:53.879 --> 00:04:00.199 shopping mall information booth. Now, when we did this the 73 00:04:00.199 --> 00:04:05.039 first time, you laughed. Still interest, it's still amusing. Still. 74 00:04:05.520 --> 00:04:07.280 You know, when you hear a joke for the second time, 75 00:04:07.319 --> 00:04:11.199 you usually don't laugh, right right, So, so that's kind 76 00:04:11.240 --> 00:04:11.800 of typical. 77 00:04:12.680 --> 00:04:14.759 But this joke, I mean, it's kind of a very 78 00:04:14.879 --> 00:04:19.959 He hits her with a very profound philosophical question. 79 00:04:19.839 --> 00:04:22.639 Is why is that? And yes, I. 80 00:04:22.600 --> 00:04:25.720 Mean sometimes that people could give her that blank stare 81 00:04:25.839 --> 00:04:28.040 right back right, Well. 82 00:04:28.160 --> 00:04:34.639 No kidd, no kidd. So uh so that's fast forward here. 83 00:04:35.879 --> 00:04:40.480 And do you do you have any idea who most 84 00:04:40.560 --> 00:04:43.920 people are? Are are who most people would how most 85 00:04:43.920 --> 00:04:46.160 people would answer when you ask him the question, well, 86 00:04:46.160 --> 00:04:49.680 who's responsible for evil? Who created evil? I mean, how 87 00:04:49.720 --> 00:04:52.920 come we have all this evil on planet Earth? And 88 00:04:52.920 --> 00:04:54.319 you know, how can we turn on TV and we 89 00:04:54.360 --> 00:04:55.879 see all this evil? I mean, who put it here 90 00:04:55.879 --> 00:04:58.040 in the first place? Who do you who do you 91 00:04:58.079 --> 00:05:01.600 think would be most people would say would be responsible 92 00:05:01.639 --> 00:05:06.759 for that? Human beings? Yes, that that that's the number 93 00:05:06.800 --> 00:05:11.199 one culprit in the literature. Most authors have written on 94 00:05:11.240 --> 00:05:15.120 this and so forth ascribe the existence, our presence, our 95 00:05:15.279 --> 00:05:20.720 creation of evil to human free will. And it goes 96 00:05:20.759 --> 00:05:23.040 all the way back to Adam and Eve, you know, 97 00:05:23.120 --> 00:05:26.800 in the opening chapter chapters of the Bible, in Genesis two, 98 00:05:26.839 --> 00:05:31.480 when Adam and e Eve disobeyed God and ate the apple, 99 00:05:31.639 --> 00:05:35.360 and then all hell broke loose, you know on planet Earth. Now, 100 00:05:35.399 --> 00:05:38.160 what do you think the fall call what we call 101 00:05:38.240 --> 00:05:41.759 the fall? Right? They say, that's the creation of evil. Well, 102 00:05:41.800 --> 00:05:44.199 that's not the creation of evil. What do you think 103 00:05:44.240 --> 00:05:49.360 the second most popular culprit for being the originator of evil? 104 00:05:49.800 --> 00:05:55.040 The devil? The evil? The devil? Right, absolutely, and and 105 00:05:55.040 --> 00:05:58.279 and demonic angels and all all this kind of stuff. 106 00:05:58.319 --> 00:06:02.959 And it kind of goes back to I've called Wilson theology, 107 00:06:03.199 --> 00:06:07.519 you know, member Flip Wilson and his famous saying the 108 00:06:07.560 --> 00:06:08.800 devil made me do it. 109 00:06:11.399 --> 00:06:13.720 I used to say that much more. Now that I'm older, 110 00:06:13.759 --> 00:06:15.920 you don't hear that much more. But well, it was 111 00:06:16.079 --> 00:06:17.000 much more longer. 112 00:06:16.759 --> 00:06:19.199 Than the seventies and eighties. Yeah, Flip Wilson is no 113 00:06:19.240 --> 00:06:22.720 longer on TV. That's that one reason why. Now, the 114 00:06:22.759 --> 00:06:27.759 third culprit that in the literature for being the origin 115 00:06:28.000 --> 00:06:32.000 or the creation of evil is something that not very 116 00:06:32.000 --> 00:06:37.079 many people know about, and it's it's very minor as 117 00:06:37.120 --> 00:06:41.199 far as the volume that ascribed to this, to this 118 00:06:41.279 --> 00:06:45.839 third source. But it's called pre creation chaos. In other words, 119 00:06:45.879 --> 00:06:49.879 that theory, and it is a theory. That theory is 120 00:06:50.040 --> 00:06:56.199 that before God created, all that is there existed, believe 121 00:06:56.240 --> 00:07:02.920 it or not, evil forces in the creation stratosphere or 122 00:07:02.920 --> 00:07:06.160 whatever you might call it, whatever that is. Nobody knows 123 00:07:06.199 --> 00:07:08.079 really what it is or can define it. But it's 124 00:07:08.160 --> 00:07:14.399 just a just a theory. The fourth culprit, however, is 125 00:07:14.519 --> 00:07:22.439 kind of mysterious, and that fourth culprit is it's a mystery. 126 00:07:22.720 --> 00:07:26.199 It's a mystery. And in fact, Timothy Keller, a very 127 00:07:26.240 --> 00:07:31.639 well known Christian author and pastor and so fourth in 128 00:07:31.639 --> 00:07:34.920 his book Walking with God Through Pain and Suffering, I'm 129 00:07:34.959 --> 00:07:37.199 gonna quote him here, he said this. He said, evil 130 00:07:37.399 --> 00:07:41.879 is neither simply the result of flawed individuals, that would 131 00:07:41.920 --> 00:07:46.240 be the free will source, nor merely a single powerful 132 00:07:46.319 --> 00:07:48.759 being like the devil, which was a number two culprit 133 00:07:48.800 --> 00:07:53.120 if you remember. He says, it stems from both as 134 00:07:53.240 --> 00:07:57.360 well as from the effects of a corrupt created order, 135 00:07:58.160 --> 00:08:02.319 and ultimately we can't see all the roots and sources 136 00:08:02.319 --> 00:08:07.279 of evil. It is a mystery. Well, how are you 137 00:08:07.360 --> 00:08:11.720 going to deal with a mystery? I don't know. 138 00:08:11.839 --> 00:08:16.040 If you can't define something, then you how it makes 139 00:08:16.040 --> 00:08:17.120 it a lot harder to deal with. 140 00:08:17.160 --> 00:08:20.759 I would say, that's right, you got that right, So 141 00:08:21.720 --> 00:08:24.480 let's deal with it anyway. Okay, that's right. Let's do 142 00:08:24.560 --> 00:08:29.600 it very important. Yeah yeah, yeah, yeah, okay. So I'm 143 00:08:29.600 --> 00:08:34.440 gonna present a proposition to you and see what see 144 00:08:34.440 --> 00:08:38.000 what you think about this? Okay, here's my it's it's 145 00:08:38.039 --> 00:08:41.519 it's what you might call a theological proposition. Here it is. 146 00:08:41.519 --> 00:08:44.559 You ready? Yes? See? If you agree, you tell me 147 00:08:44.679 --> 00:08:53.639 agree or disagree? All right? Okay? No evil, no Christianity agree. Agreed. 148 00:08:54.759 --> 00:08:58.279 Without evil, there would have been no need for progression 149 00:08:58.440 --> 00:09:01.399 of covenants or grounds or the law and the prophets 150 00:09:01.440 --> 00:09:07.600 throughout the Old Testament. Without evil, no reason for Israel 151 00:09:08.480 --> 00:09:15.080 or its animal sacrifice, blood temple system. Agreed, Man, You're 152 00:09:15.120 --> 00:09:20.120 easy to get along with I know, I just say, okay, 153 00:09:20.600 --> 00:09:24.039 we're not done yet. Okay, you still with me? Without 154 00:09:24.120 --> 00:09:29.240 without evil, no rationale for sending the christ right agreed correct, 155 00:09:30.639 --> 00:09:33.240 No reason for him to lower himself or to be 156 00:09:33.279 --> 00:09:39.600 crucified on across right, right agreed, without evil, no basis 157 00:09:39.639 --> 00:09:46.320 for redemption or resurrection without evil, no purpose in pouring 158 00:09:46.360 --> 00:09:52.759 out the Holy Spirit. Probably yeah, yeah, absolutely, And here 159 00:09:52.799 --> 00:10:00.759 here's my last one. Without evil. No churches agreed, no past, 160 00:10:02.000 --> 00:10:07.440 no Bible, no Gospel, no Christians. 161 00:10:09.720 --> 00:10:12.960 Yeah, it's a it's an it's an essential part of 162 00:10:13.000 --> 00:10:17.639 the whole story of humanity from the beginning, from the past. 163 00:10:17.759 --> 00:10:19.559 That's it's an essential part. 164 00:10:20.960 --> 00:10:25.279 That's real. Critical in identifying the proper origin and creation 165 00:10:25.480 --> 00:10:30.279 of evil is that recognition that that that you've you've 166 00:10:30.399 --> 00:10:35.639 verified for me of who, of who, of why it's 167 00:10:35.759 --> 00:10:40.720 essential and what made it essential? In other words, no evil, 168 00:10:40.759 --> 00:10:46.200 no Christianity, there's some all that up now. Few in 169 00:10:46.360 --> 00:10:51.200 Christian history, William have seriously contemplated this possibility of the 170 00:10:51.320 --> 00:10:58.639 interconnectionness of evil as being a necessity for Christianity. Few, 171 00:10:59.240 --> 00:11:01.879 I know, I've done, I've done the research on this, 172 00:11:03.120 --> 00:11:08.039 or recognize this condundrum and That is why theologians and 173 00:11:08.240 --> 00:11:11.799 philosophers and pastors and even atheists alike have traditionally been 174 00:11:11.799 --> 00:11:17.200 accustomed to referring to and treating evil as the problem 175 00:11:17.960 --> 00:11:24.360 of evil, as opposed to the necessity. Very important distinction, Yes, 176 00:11:24.919 --> 00:11:30.120 very important distinction. Uh. And one scholar, another scholar, this 177 00:11:30.200 --> 00:11:35.720 happens to be Gregory Gasolet in a book. In a 178 00:11:36.200 --> 00:11:39.360 book titled God and Evil, The Case for God in 179 00:11:39.399 --> 00:11:42.840 the World Filled with Pain, he writes this. He said, 180 00:11:42.919 --> 00:11:49.080 Christianity requires there to be evil. If no evil existed, 181 00:11:49.519 --> 00:11:57.000 we would know that Christianity is false. Furthermore, Christianity requires 182 00:11:57.039 --> 00:12:01.519 a great deal more than a superficial amount of evil. 183 00:12:02.600 --> 00:12:05.919 If evil had to be, evil had to be so 184 00:12:06.000 --> 00:12:12.320 significant that the highest sacrifice is warranted. What are you 185 00:12:12.320 --> 00:12:17.559 looking at that Christianity? This is the last sentence in 186 00:12:17.600 --> 00:12:21.519 this quote. Christianity is a story of God entering the 187 00:12:21.559 --> 00:12:26.720 world and paying the highest price price to deal with 188 00:12:26.840 --> 00:12:32.279 the root of evil. In other words, no Christianity or 189 00:12:32.360 --> 00:12:34.720 no evil, no Christianity. 190 00:12:35.759 --> 00:12:39.840 Think that they're oppositional. The Christianity is supposed to solve 191 00:12:41.039 --> 00:12:42.360 the issues of evil. 192 00:12:43.279 --> 00:12:48.519 That's right, that's right. So in this book, that little 193 00:12:48.559 --> 00:12:55.159 shameless promotion here in color, in color, much better, a 194 00:12:55.159 --> 00:12:59.840 little bit of color. My twofold focus, William, was to 195 00:13:00.120 --> 00:13:04.200 number one, dispel faulty beliefs, which we've begun to do 196 00:13:05.559 --> 00:13:08.360 so far, and number two, to cast better light on 197 00:13:08.480 --> 00:13:12.919 this whole idea of a mystery of evil and realize 198 00:13:13.000 --> 00:13:17.360 that it is not a mystery. What it is isn't essential. 199 00:13:19.440 --> 00:13:23.639 Huge difference, huge, huge difference. Okay, so you want to 200 00:13:23.679 --> 00:13:25.759 get into it a little bit, Yes, let's do it, 201 00:13:26.679 --> 00:13:35.440 all right, let's fast forward here. Gordon Spikeman, who was 202 00:13:35.480 --> 00:13:40.360 one of the theologians whose textbook The Reformational Theology of 203 00:13:40.440 --> 00:13:44.639 Paradigm for Doing Dogmatics was one of my required text 204 00:13:44.720 --> 00:13:48.519 in my doctoral program, wrote this. He says, if we 205 00:13:48.559 --> 00:13:53.159 get first things wrong, last things will also turn out wrong. 206 00:13:54.399 --> 00:13:57.159 Well wise, we're going to see here we've gotten first 207 00:13:57.200 --> 00:14:01.039 things really wrong. And what we're not going to see 208 00:14:01.080 --> 00:14:02.919 here because we don't have time to get into it, 209 00:14:03.279 --> 00:14:05.320 but which I've written a number of other books on, 210 00:14:05.840 --> 00:14:09.320 is we've also got last things really wrong too, And 211 00:14:09.399 --> 00:14:14.639 the primary reason is because we've gotten first things wrong. Gotcha? 212 00:14:15.159 --> 00:14:20.360 So all right? So where did evil come from in 213 00:14:20.440 --> 00:14:23.480 the first place? N? T. Wright, the very famous theologian 214 00:14:23.720 --> 00:14:27.519 maintains that the origin of evil itself remains a mystery. 215 00:14:27.960 --> 00:14:31.480 See he's still hung up in that mystery stuff. But 216 00:14:31.720 --> 00:14:35.720 the biblically correct answer and the sole solution for the 217 00:14:35.759 --> 00:14:43.120 problem of evil is this, first and foremost, evil was 218 00:14:43.159 --> 00:14:50.799 put on this planet by who do you think? The creator? God? 219 00:14:52.399 --> 00:14:57.960 First and foremost, He did this before, before the creation 220 00:14:58.039 --> 00:15:01.559 of Adam and Eve. He he placed evil on this 221 00:15:01.759 --> 00:15:06.320 planet before the fall. And the number one culprit, as 222 00:15:06.360 --> 00:15:10.799 we previously talked about people describing to the as the 223 00:15:10.840 --> 00:15:14.000 origin of evil is human free will, Well, he placed 224 00:15:14.360 --> 00:15:19.600 evil on this planet before, before the fall, before Adam 225 00:15:19.600 --> 00:15:22.159 and Eve were even created. The Bible clearly tells us 226 00:15:22.240 --> 00:15:27.960 that in Genesis chapter one, you know, like in the beginning, 227 00:15:28.000 --> 00:15:31.919 God created the heavens and the earth, right, okay, And 228 00:15:32.039 --> 00:15:36.159 on the third day of Creation week, God created all 229 00:15:36.240 --> 00:15:40.399 the seed bearing plants and trees on the third day 230 00:15:40.399 --> 00:15:44.519 of creation week, and he saw that that was good. 231 00:15:46.080 --> 00:15:50.399 And then in Genesis two eight, a small portion of 232 00:15:50.440 --> 00:15:54.759 that original creation was was a part of the what 233 00:15:54.799 --> 00:15:57.240 we what we what he now called the garden of 234 00:15:57.399 --> 00:16:01.600 Eden on that planet, right, And one of the trees 235 00:16:02.440 --> 00:16:04.960 in that garden which was created on the third day 236 00:16:04.960 --> 00:16:08.720 of Creation week, and in the middle of that garden 237 00:16:09.200 --> 00:16:16.639 was the Tree of the Knowledge of Good and evil? Right, 238 00:16:16.679 --> 00:16:19.279 So it's right there there it is who put that 239 00:16:19.320 --> 00:16:24.600 tree there, God, the Creator. God did not not Adam 240 00:16:24.600 --> 00:16:28.360 and Eve were even created yet, were they? Nope? 241 00:16:28.600 --> 00:16:30.919 Not in, not in, not to hear it, not till 242 00:16:30.919 --> 00:16:31.759 the seventh to day. 243 00:16:31.720 --> 00:16:40.960 Right, uh, sixth day, sixth Sorry, I shouldn't know that, okay, okay. So, 244 00:16:40.960 --> 00:16:43.000 so certainly it was not human free will to put 245 00:16:43.000 --> 00:16:44.840 it there, and certainly it was not the devil who 246 00:16:44.840 --> 00:16:47.799 put it there, right, and certainly was not It's not 247 00:16:47.840 --> 00:16:50.159 a mystery who put it there? I mean, it was 248 00:16:50.200 --> 00:16:51.879 God to put it there. Can we agree with that 249 00:16:51.919 --> 00:16:58.559 from a scriptural biblical yes? Okay? So who placed Adam 250 00:16:58.600 --> 00:17:01.960 and Eve in the guard next to that where that 251 00:17:02.000 --> 00:17:06.400 tree was located? God? God who gave them permission to 252 00:17:06.480 --> 00:17:11.319 eat from all of the other trees. God who placed 253 00:17:11.359 --> 00:17:13.839 the prohibition of not eating from the Tree of the 254 00:17:13.880 --> 00:17:16.920 Knowledge of Good and evil on Adam and Eve. God 255 00:17:18.119 --> 00:17:21.759 who turned the devil or Satan into a serpent and 256 00:17:21.839 --> 00:17:27.359 put him in the garden with them. God, that's right, 257 00:17:27.440 --> 00:17:31.759 And who gave them access or who gave him access 258 00:17:31.839 --> 00:17:36.720 to Adam and Eve to tempt him? God? That's right. 259 00:17:37.200 --> 00:17:40.359 And God could have cast Satan to a number of 260 00:17:40.359 --> 00:17:42.440 other places after he threw him out of heaven, right 261 00:17:42.480 --> 00:17:45.480 he and his cohorts? I mean, he could have thrown 262 00:17:45.559 --> 00:17:51.799 him to uh oh what Plutou or the moon, or 263 00:17:52.279 --> 00:17:55.359 to the other side of the earth, or to Uranus 264 00:17:55.519 --> 00:17:59.680 or a number of places. Right. Who gave Adam and 265 00:17:59.680 --> 00:18:02.000 Eve access to the Tree of the Knowledge of good 266 00:18:02.000 --> 00:18:07.720 and evil? God, so they would have the opportunity to 267 00:18:07.799 --> 00:18:14.400 disobey him? Yes, that's right God. Now God could have 268 00:18:14.400 --> 00:18:17.039 put an angel, you know, with with with with a 269 00:18:17.039 --> 00:18:19.839 flaming sword, flashing back and forth around that tree to 270 00:18:19.880 --> 00:18:22.079 protect it, so they couldn't have gotten to it, couldn't 271 00:18:22.079 --> 00:18:24.880 he which he would use an angel later on to 272 00:18:24.920 --> 00:18:26.480 do that to keep mo out of the garden of meeting. 273 00:18:27.400 --> 00:18:31.079 Or more simply, he could have never planted that tree 274 00:18:31.079 --> 00:18:36.039 there in the first place. Right, So in a court 275 00:18:36.079 --> 00:18:40.839 of law, William, we would call that culpability, would we not? Yes? 276 00:18:42.480 --> 00:18:45.160 And and if if if it was, you know, if 277 00:18:45.359 --> 00:18:47.880 that was being judged by a jury, he'd be gilly 278 00:18:48.079 --> 00:18:54.039 right correct? Okay, So he also created Adam and Eve. 279 00:18:54.200 --> 00:18:55.759 See if you agree with this or not agree with 280 00:18:55.799 --> 00:19:03.279 the capacity to be susceptible to tradition to you mean temptation? Yes, yes, Okay, 281 00:19:04.359 --> 00:19:08.200 Now he could have created things differently, couldn't he, so 282 00:19:08.359 --> 00:19:12.039 that they would never have had been succumbed to that temptation? 283 00:19:12.720 --> 00:19:16.160 Or or he could have turned the other cheek and 284 00:19:16.240 --> 00:19:19.920 just kind of ignored it and fluffed it off. Right, agreed, Yes, 285 00:19:20.119 --> 00:19:26.359 but he didn't did it? So, But but if he 286 00:19:26.400 --> 00:19:31.440 could have made it, he could have made this whole 287 00:19:31.799 --> 00:19:36.240 world creation free of evil and free of sin and 288 00:19:36.279 --> 00:19:41.720 free of suffering. Right, and a lot of Christians believe 289 00:19:41.880 --> 00:19:45.480 that someday that's what he's going to do, is make 290 00:19:45.559 --> 00:19:50.240 this whole whole planet new again and not have any 291 00:19:50.319 --> 00:19:53.519 evil or sin or suffering in it whatsoever. Well, why 292 00:19:53.519 --> 00:19:58.680 did he do that in the first place? Right? Huh right? 293 00:19:58.720 --> 00:20:03.519 Good question? Yeah? Yeah, how about that being a good question? Yeah? 294 00:20:04.680 --> 00:20:11.400 So who is responsible for the creation of evil on 295 00:20:11.400 --> 00:20:17.599 this planet? God? There you go? Yeah, the creation of you? 296 00:20:17.920 --> 00:20:21.599 Not not human free will, that's not that thought. Who's responsible? 297 00:20:21.640 --> 00:20:25.400 We we can't create anything, you know, not not the devil. 298 00:20:25.480 --> 00:20:28.640 Devil's not responsible for that. He can't create anything. And 299 00:20:28.680 --> 00:20:32.839 it's certainly uh not uh uh you know, pre existence, 300 00:20:32.960 --> 00:20:36.119 chaos or anything like that. And it's certainly not a mystery. 301 00:20:36.319 --> 00:20:38.839 I mean, it's plain to see. God created the tree 302 00:20:38.839 --> 00:20:41.000 of the notche, of good and evil, and and and 303 00:20:41.000 --> 00:20:45.559 and the whole circumstances there for everything to transpire. Now 304 00:20:46.240 --> 00:20:50.839 you want to know something even more uh, indicting and 305 00:20:50.920 --> 00:20:54.799 culpable than even that. Yes, you sure you can have 306 00:20:55.480 --> 00:20:59.920 already I'm sitting there. I mean, I mean, you're not 307 00:21:00.039 --> 00:21:02.559 ready to shut me down yet, are you. No, But 308 00:21:02.599 --> 00:21:04.599 we're past the twenty one minute mark, so we're in 309 00:21:04.640 --> 00:21:08.880 good shape. Okay, all right, all right, let me ask 310 00:21:08.880 --> 00:21:11.920 you this, when was Christ slain? 311 00:21:13.400 --> 00:21:16.279 Well there's a little variation, but it's eighty thirty or 312 00:21:16.319 --> 00:21:17.119 eighty thirty three. 313 00:21:17.839 --> 00:21:22.799 Well, there's more variation than that. Worse what Oh well, 314 00:21:23.200 --> 00:21:28.279 now you're getting like, yes, right, come on, people, I 315 00:21:28.279 --> 00:21:31.319 mean before the creation of the world, right now, yes, yes, 316 00:21:32.279 --> 00:21:34.880 you know where that's you know where that is? No, 317 00:21:35.000 --> 00:21:37.160 where is that? It's in the Bible, in the Bible, 318 00:21:37.279 --> 00:21:41.839 right you know where it is in the Bible. No Revelation, 319 00:21:42.240 --> 00:21:48.240 Chapter thirteen, verse eight. Now, the Bible is a progression 320 00:21:48.279 --> 00:21:52.559 of Revelation. You know, we start within the beginning. God 321 00:21:52.599 --> 00:21:54.920 created the heavens and the earth right, and we progress 322 00:21:55.000 --> 00:21:58.200 all the way up and God throughout that Bible. As 323 00:21:58.200 --> 00:22:00.720 you progress from the Old Town, through the Old Testament 324 00:22:00.759 --> 00:22:03.680 and up into the New Testament, and through the New 325 00:22:03.680 --> 00:22:07.920 Testament up in the Book of Revelation, God progressively reveals 326 00:22:07.960 --> 00:22:09.880 more and more and more and more and more. Right, 327 00:22:09.960 --> 00:22:15.599 it's called progressive revelation. And so in Revelation thirteen eight 328 00:22:15.680 --> 00:22:21.200 he reveals through the Angel there that that God, that 329 00:22:21.640 --> 00:22:24.799 Jesus was slain before the foundations of the world, So 330 00:22:24.960 --> 00:22:27.000 even before the tree of the knowledge of good and 331 00:22:27.039 --> 00:22:33.880 evil was placed in the physical cosmos creation, Christ was slain. 332 00:22:34.039 --> 00:22:37.799 In other words, that God had had all planned and 333 00:22:37.960 --> 00:22:44.599 locked in place. So no christian no no evil, no Christianity. 334 00:22:45.599 --> 00:22:48.359 Jesus explained prior to that, and it was all locked 335 00:22:48.359 --> 00:22:52.039 and fixed in place. Now does that? Does that? Does 336 00:22:52.079 --> 00:22:56.640 that blow blow you away? Just realizing that? I think so. 337 00:22:56.920 --> 00:22:59.000 I think it's very much of a difference, like free 338 00:22:59.000 --> 00:23:02.359 will or something. It really goes back to the foundation, 339 00:23:02.480 --> 00:23:05.480 the garden trieve the knowledge of good and evil. 340 00:23:06.079 --> 00:23:09.400 Yeah, now you want you want some more? That will 341 00:23:09.440 --> 00:23:13.240 even blow you away even more about some of our listeners. 342 00:23:13.359 --> 00:23:19.079 And you ready, I'm I'm wall I'm not making this 343 00:23:19.079 --> 00:23:23.279 stuff up. I mean this is scripture, scripture. I mean, 344 00:23:23.319 --> 00:23:25.799 I mean, you know, anybody could have read this. You know, 345 00:23:26.119 --> 00:23:29.440 it's not me just coming out with something new. All right, 346 00:23:30.200 --> 00:23:32.880 as asked to get to more proof. All right, here 347 00:23:32.960 --> 00:23:38.920 we go, all right, by by by by by b 348 00:23:39.799 --> 00:23:47.160 up Isaiah. Now this is part of the progressive revelation, 349 00:23:47.400 --> 00:23:52.680 right Old Testament, Isaiah the prophet. In Isaiah forty five seven, 350 00:23:52.799 --> 00:23:58.079 God is talking to Isaiah. And here's what God reveals 351 00:23:58.160 --> 00:24:05.359 to him. I form the light and create darkness. I 352 00:24:05.599 --> 00:24:12.000 make peace and create evil. I the Lord do all 353 00:24:12.079 --> 00:24:18.319 these things. Isaiah forty five seven, King James version. So 354 00:24:18.440 --> 00:24:21.359 not only did God create evil in the first place, 355 00:24:21.400 --> 00:24:24.200 but even in the Old Testament he says he keeps 356 00:24:24.240 --> 00:24:33.720 creating evil that he doesn't now. The Hebrew word translated 357 00:24:33.759 --> 00:24:40.240 as evil there in Isaiah forty five is the Hebrew 358 00:24:40.279 --> 00:24:44.680 word raw r a, and it comes from the Hebrew 359 00:24:45.400 --> 00:24:51.240 verb raw awe, meaning to spoil. Some versions of the Bible, 360 00:24:51.920 --> 00:24:56.240 like the NIV, for example, in the NAS they don't 361 00:24:56.279 --> 00:25:00.640 translate that word raw as evil. They translate. They try 362 00:25:00.680 --> 00:25:04.400 to soften it, you know, they try to distance God 363 00:25:04.799 --> 00:25:10.279 from from further creation of evil by translating it as 364 00:25:10.839 --> 00:25:15.440 disasters or calamity. But that word raw, there is the 365 00:25:15.440 --> 00:25:19.799 same word that's used back in Genesis when when God 366 00:25:19.960 --> 00:25:23.640 created the tree of the knowledge of good and raw. 367 00:25:24.480 --> 00:25:27.880 It's the same word. And no version of the Bible 368 00:25:28.039 --> 00:25:31.759 translates that that I know of in Genesis the word 369 00:25:31.839 --> 00:25:37.480 raw as disasters are calamities. And that that word raw 370 00:25:37.720 --> 00:25:42.880 is used some oh numerous let's see if I can't 371 00:25:42.880 --> 00:25:47.559 even remember how many times, some five hundred raw is 372 00:25:47.640 --> 00:25:50.880 used in some five hundred verses throughout the Old Testament, 373 00:25:50.960 --> 00:25:55.759 and in a consistently applied manner. And that's that word 374 00:25:56.200 --> 00:26:00.559 translated as the creation of the good and evil, that something. 375 00:26:00.839 --> 00:26:11.440 And in this book I have about eleven pages, eleven pages, 376 00:26:11.799 --> 00:26:17.920 if I can find these things real quick here for you, O. 377 00:26:18.079 --> 00:26:22.200 Here they are about ten or eleven pages listed of 378 00:26:22.400 --> 00:26:28.680 some of those see that of some of those five 379 00:26:28.759 --> 00:26:35.559 hundred places in Genesis and Exodus and Leviticus, in Deuteronomy, 380 00:26:35.880 --> 00:26:42.279 and Joshua and Samuel first and second, in Kings, first 381 00:26:42.319 --> 00:26:48.599 and second, Proverbs, Isaiah, Jeremiah, lamentations, Ezekiel, Micah, Zechariah, and 382 00:26:48.640 --> 00:26:53.160 so forth throughout there, stating God saying I create evil, 383 00:26:53.200 --> 00:26:55.319 I create evil, and examples of him doing it and 384 00:26:55.400 --> 00:26:57.680 doing it, I cause evil and all this stuff. So 385 00:26:57.720 --> 00:26:59.640 not only did he create it in the first place 386 00:27:00.119 --> 00:27:02.680 and put it in the in the pre fall original garden, 387 00:27:03.039 --> 00:27:05.720 and set up the whole circumstances for them to be 388 00:27:05.839 --> 00:27:10.480 tempted and to fall and fail, and sent Satan down 389 00:27:10.519 --> 00:27:13.599 there to do the do the tempting and all that stuff. 390 00:27:13.880 --> 00:27:16.559 Cast him to the earth in that very particular E 391 00:27:16.599 --> 00:27:19.240 could has cast him over into uh what is now 392 00:27:19.279 --> 00:27:22.119 Australia or America. You know, he didn't have to put 393 00:27:22.160 --> 00:27:26.079 him there, right in that little bitty patrick ground. However 394 00:27:26.160 --> 00:27:32.000 big that that was. And and my goodness, gracious, I mean, 395 00:27:32.079 --> 00:27:34.640 I mean this is a so so you know, who 396 00:27:34.720 --> 00:27:38.319 is a source of evil? Who is the creator of evil? Now, 397 00:27:38.359 --> 00:27:41.640 the question is, all right, if God did all this, 398 00:27:43.400 --> 00:27:47.039 why did he do it? I mean, he didn't have 399 00:27:47.119 --> 00:27:50.440 to do this this way, did he? No? And again, 400 00:27:50.480 --> 00:27:52.880 as I mentioned earlier, you know, most Christians are bleeved, 401 00:27:53.119 --> 00:27:55.119