WEBVTT 1 00:00:00.920 --> 00:00:03.839 Hey, Pete, I ever wonder what Steven Spielberg's favorite film is. 2 00:00:04.120 --> 00:00:07.000 You know, Andy, I've heard he loves classics like Lawrence 3 00:00:07.000 --> 00:00:08.880 of Arabia, Meme, and Saint Louis. 4 00:00:09.320 --> 00:00:12.679 Imagine chatting with him about why those films resonate with 5 00:00:12.759 --> 00:00:13.359 him so much. 6 00:00:13.519 --> 00:00:16.160 That's exactly what we do on our podcast Movies We Like. 7 00:00:16.600 --> 00:00:21.359 We've had incredible guests like actress Dee Wallace, cinematographer Eric Measureschmith, 8 00:00:21.600 --> 00:00:26.160 director Steve Miner, and former Disney animators Tom and Tony Bancroft. 9 00:00:26.399 --> 00:00:29.320 They share their favorite films and the impact they've had 10 00:00:29.359 --> 00:00:32.719 on their careers, offering fascinating insights into the craftsmanship and 11 00:00:32.799 --> 00:00:35.799 storytelling techniques that make these movies so special. 12 00:00:35.920 --> 00:00:39.159 If you're curious about the magic behind the scenes, subscribe 13 00:00:39.200 --> 00:00:41.320 to Movies We Like from True Story FM on your 14 00:00:41.320 --> 00:00:44.719 favorite podcast app. New episodes are released on the fourth 15 00:00:44.759 --> 00:00:47.520 Monday of each month, with early access for our members. 16 00:00:47.840 --> 00:00:49.920 Join us on Movies we Like as we explore the 17 00:00:49.960 --> 00:00:52.560 movies we all like with the people who make them. 18 00:00:52.320 --> 00:00:54.679 And Stephen our people will call your people. 19 00:00:54.759 --> 00:00:56.159 Let's make this happen, Booby. 20 00:00:56.479 --> 00:01:11.799 Subscribe today, Hello, and welcome to this week's episode. 21 00:01:11.840 --> 00:01:16.439 Of Superhero Ethics. Today, myself, Matthew Fox, and my normal 22 00:01:16.480 --> 00:01:18.879 co host Riki Hayashi are gonna be talking about the 23 00:01:18.920 --> 00:01:24.439 anime from the nineteen nineties Neon Genesis Evangelian or Evangelian. 24 00:01:25.439 --> 00:01:29.599 This is I would imagine that in our listenership right now, 25 00:01:30.359 --> 00:01:33.359 twenty to thirty percent of you are going, Oh my god, 26 00:01:33.400 --> 00:01:35.079 this is one of the best sci fi ever, one 27 00:01:35.079 --> 00:01:37.359 of the best anime ever. I love this show. I 28 00:01:37.359 --> 00:01:40.200 can't wait to hear you talk about it. Another sixty 29 00:01:40.200 --> 00:01:42.640 to seventy percent of you going, what in the world 30 00:01:42.640 --> 00:01:45.120 are you talking about? You may have heard it, you 31 00:01:45.200 --> 00:01:47.799 know I have seen it. This is another one of 32 00:01:47.840 --> 00:01:50.200 these episodes where this is something Reky knows really well. 33 00:01:51.200 --> 00:01:53.840 I haven't known it well, but Riki has been talking 34 00:01:53.840 --> 00:01:55.239 about it for a while and a number of the 35 00:01:55.280 --> 00:01:58.640 different topics that it opens up, and so we're gonna 36 00:01:58.680 --> 00:02:00.319 do what's probably gonna be the first of an number 37 00:02:00.359 --> 00:02:03.439 of episodes on this topic of this show and all 38 00:02:03.480 --> 00:02:06.799 the ethical questions that it connects to, both in terms 39 00:02:06.840 --> 00:02:09.000 of within the show itself and in the creation of 40 00:02:09.039 --> 00:02:12.800 the show. And if you've never seen the show, if 41 00:02:12.840 --> 00:02:15.400 you don't know what we're talking about. Don't worry, I 42 00:02:15.439 --> 00:02:17.120 haven't seen most of the show. I've seen the first 43 00:02:17.120 --> 00:02:19.400 five episodes. I've seen a video about the lore of it, 44 00:02:19.759 --> 00:02:21.240 and so a lot of today is going to be 45 00:02:21.240 --> 00:02:24.840 about us taking me and all of you through kind 46 00:02:24.840 --> 00:02:27.479 of what the show is about, but also talking about 47 00:02:27.520 --> 00:02:30.439 like the questions that it raises, because again, like the 48 00:02:30.479 --> 00:02:32.759 point of this podcast is not as much to say 49 00:02:32.800 --> 00:02:36.080 like this character was right, that character was wrong, as 50 00:02:36.159 --> 00:02:38.159 much as to say, like, what are the questions that 51 00:02:38.199 --> 00:02:41.680 this show or this movie, or this book or whatever 52 00:02:41.800 --> 00:02:45.039 is raising for us, and how do we feel about 53 00:02:45.039 --> 00:02:48.520 those things? Because I'm only five episodes in and already I 54 00:02:48.560 --> 00:02:51.479 see deep connections to a number of the things we've 55 00:02:51.479 --> 00:02:55.120 talked about on this show, everything from cultural appropriation to 56 00:02:56.960 --> 00:03:01.080 mecca ideas, to the way sexuality is presented in shows, 57 00:03:01.159 --> 00:03:04.240 to the idea of choice and do you get to 58 00:03:04.360 --> 00:03:06.280 choose whether or not you are the hero which is 59 00:03:06.280 --> 00:03:10.719 a pretty recent episode, to depression and loneliness and how 60 00:03:10.759 --> 00:03:14.960 those things manifest in wartime and trauma. There's just so much. 61 00:03:15.000 --> 00:03:17.360 I'm sure there's so much I'm still missing. So Riki, 62 00:03:17.439 --> 00:03:19.360 why don't you tell us a little bit about your 63 00:03:19.919 --> 00:03:21.879 your feelings about this show and kind of what what 64 00:03:21.919 --> 00:03:23.400 made you want it to be something we talked about. 65 00:03:25.360 --> 00:03:29.280 Yeah, thank you. First off, I guess I would say 66 00:03:29.360 --> 00:03:32.439 I am by no means an experts. This is not 67 00:03:33.120 --> 00:03:37.039 This is actually like not something I grew up watching 68 00:03:38.039 --> 00:03:42.240 because it was it wasn't really available to me back then, 69 00:03:42.800 --> 00:03:44.280 you know, you would have to go searching for it. 70 00:03:44.400 --> 00:03:47.960 I was aware of it because it was such a 71 00:03:48.000 --> 00:03:51.960 cultural phenomenon. I believe it came out in nineteen ninety five. Yeah, 72 00:03:52.439 --> 00:03:56.120 ninety six was when it was on TV in Japan. 73 00:03:57.000 --> 00:04:02.520 And it is so iconic within anime, within the mecca 74 00:04:02.719 --> 00:04:07.240 subgenre that you cannot help if you if you're a 75 00:04:07.240 --> 00:04:09.919 fan of those things, you cannot help but have seen 76 00:04:10.680 --> 00:04:14.800 the EVAs, the Giant Robots, some of the character models 77 00:04:15.400 --> 00:04:19.279 are very iconic and copied, you know, across the industry. 78 00:04:19.399 --> 00:04:24.240 But I only watched it, started watching anythink last year 79 00:04:24.240 --> 00:04:28.079 and finished it this year because it's been available on Netflix, 80 00:04:28.399 --> 00:04:32.399 which is a huge boon for all of us to 81 00:04:32.519 --> 00:04:33.399 be able to watch it. 82 00:04:34.879 --> 00:04:36.680 And I will say this marks me as a dirty 83 00:04:36.680 --> 00:04:39.399 heretic to some I know, though not you. You can 84 00:04:39.439 --> 00:04:43.040 obviously watch it EI the original Japanese with subtitles. One 85 00:04:43.040 --> 00:04:44.879 of the things that Netflix did Netflix did is they 86 00:04:44.959 --> 00:04:48.519 re recorded a fairly good dub with with good actors. 87 00:04:48.680 --> 00:04:52.480 It is not exactly translation. We'll definitely talk about that, 88 00:04:52.560 --> 00:04:55.439 but for if you're like me and for ADHD reasons 89 00:04:55.519 --> 00:04:57.759 or other things like that, subtitles are hard, there is 90 00:04:57.800 --> 00:04:59.439 definitely a good dub version of it as well. 91 00:05:00.920 --> 00:05:04.519 Yeah, I I've said this before, probably on the show, 92 00:05:04.519 --> 00:05:11.519 but it bears repeating that I prefer subtitles because I 93 00:05:12.000 --> 00:05:18.199 can understand Japanese, right, And I think that, like, especially 94 00:05:18.279 --> 00:05:21.519 live action, like acting in live action is kind of 95 00:05:21.519 --> 00:05:24.759 different from voice acting, but it's all still acting. And 96 00:05:24.839 --> 00:05:27.920 I do think like you lose some stuff if you 97 00:05:28.000 --> 00:05:32.360 don't have the original actor like doing the things. But 98 00:05:33.439 --> 00:05:38.120 that said, like, I do not fault anyone for preferring 99 00:05:39.000 --> 00:05:42.920 the dub for whatever reason. You should watch things in 100 00:05:42.959 --> 00:05:46.199 the way that you can enjoy them best. So I 101 00:05:46.600 --> 00:05:49.319 am like fully not into the debate of like which 102 00:05:49.360 --> 00:05:52.560 is quote unquote better. Yeah, whatever, whatever is better for 103 00:05:52.600 --> 00:05:55.319 you is what you should do to enjoy a product. 104 00:05:56.600 --> 00:05:59.800 And like, even though like I don't understand Korean, like 105 00:06:00.079 --> 00:06:02.759 it's it's still the same. Like I still enjoy watching 106 00:06:02.800 --> 00:06:06.680 like Korean horror, especially a lot of the a lot 107 00:06:06.680 --> 00:06:09.839 of the TV shows and movies in the original Korean 108 00:06:10.279 --> 00:06:13.439 with subs, just because I feel like I'm getting more 109 00:06:13.480 --> 00:06:16.480 out of it, even if I'm not understanding the words 110 00:06:16.519 --> 00:06:19.639 that they're saying, for sure that they emote them. I 111 00:06:19.680 --> 00:06:23.680 think is more is more, it's more genuine performance, even 112 00:06:23.720 --> 00:06:28.040 though like I do enjoy some of the performances. Patrick 113 00:06:28.120 --> 00:06:33.000 Stewart in particular, was on the dub of Naushka The 114 00:06:33.079 --> 00:06:33.839 Valley of the Wind. 115 00:06:34.480 --> 00:06:37.879 Oh interesting, it's just such a fun performance. 116 00:06:38.720 --> 00:06:42.600 Anyway, back to this, so you you mentioned the name 117 00:06:43.839 --> 00:06:50.199 Neon Genesis. Evangelian is technically the correct name. I know 118 00:06:50.279 --> 00:06:53.439 it gets gets pronounced both ways in the Japanese the 119 00:06:53.439 --> 00:06:56.480 way it's written, it's Evangelian, so that I feel like 120 00:06:56.519 --> 00:06:59.040 that's just how it should be said. But you know, 121 00:07:00.279 --> 00:07:04.680 and for me, like if you do, if you are 122 00:07:04.720 --> 00:07:08.639 not familiar with this product and you are still interested 123 00:07:08.720 --> 00:07:13.600 in watching it, we are probably going to spoil things, 124 00:07:13.720 --> 00:07:15.839 like talk about things that happen, and I already mentioned 125 00:07:15.839 --> 00:07:19.000 to you in the pre show. It doesn't it doesn't 126 00:07:19.040 --> 00:07:22.079 matter as much like this is one of the least 127 00:07:22.319 --> 00:07:27.399 plot driven shows I have ever watched like that. I 128 00:07:27.439 --> 00:07:29.920 want to make the argument, like a broad argument, that 129 00:07:29.959 --> 00:07:35.160 the plot doesn't matter because frankly, like some of it 130 00:07:35.199 --> 00:07:38.800 is just nonsense, Like people have like done deep dives 131 00:07:38.839 --> 00:07:42.199 into the lore, and there is a lore and it 132 00:07:42.319 --> 00:07:47.720 is arguably consistent within itself, but it doesn't make any 133 00:07:47.759 --> 00:07:51.360 sense and there's not you. You can't be like, ah, 134 00:07:51.480 --> 00:07:55.879 like this is why this is happening. No, not really. 135 00:07:56.040 --> 00:08:00.879 And then on top of that, there are a multiple 136 00:08:01.120 --> 00:08:04.000 endings to this. I don't know how familiar are with that, 137 00:08:04.160 --> 00:08:07.920 but the original TV show was twenty six episodes, which 138 00:08:07.959 --> 00:08:11.920 is what is available on Netflix right one quote unquote season, 139 00:08:12.959 --> 00:08:16.079 and there is an ending to that season. It's a 140 00:08:16.160 --> 00:08:20.439 very weird ending, and in fact, it was not very 141 00:08:20.480 --> 00:08:26.839 popular in Japan, I would say unfortunately. The creator Hideakiano 142 00:08:26.920 --> 00:08:31.680 and his animation studio Gain Acts received a lot of 143 00:08:31.720 --> 00:08:37.960 hate mail, death threads. I've seen pictures of spray painted 144 00:08:38.080 --> 00:08:43.080 graffiti like on their studio entrance. So they received a 145 00:08:43.080 --> 00:08:46.080 lot of hate for the original ending of the anime 146 00:08:46.200 --> 00:08:50.399 run on TV, and I believe a year later released 147 00:08:50.559 --> 00:08:55.679 a movie that was like a retelling of the ending 148 00:08:55.759 --> 00:08:58.879 of the last two episodes. I believe in a very 149 00:08:58.919 --> 00:09:03.879 different way. And so if you're into lore and like 150 00:09:03.919 --> 00:09:07.399 a history of a show, like the internal history, like 151 00:09:07.720 --> 00:09:10.200 which which one is the real ending? Right is a 152 00:09:10.279 --> 00:09:14.639 question among fandom. And now they have released I believe 153 00:09:14.639 --> 00:09:21.399 it's a series of three movies recently, and those also 154 00:09:22.919 --> 00:09:26.799 retell the ending in a way, or retell the whole 155 00:09:26.840 --> 00:09:32.200 series in some sense. The yeah, it's called rebuild. The 156 00:09:32.240 --> 00:09:37.919 Rebuild of Evangelion is the recent movies like one point 157 00:09:38.000 --> 00:09:41.360 zero through three point zero. Yeah, so there's three movies 158 00:09:41.720 --> 00:09:45.480 and it's one. One argument I've heard is that it's 159 00:09:45.559 --> 00:09:50.919 like that that this universe is multiversal and that it's 160 00:09:51.039 --> 00:09:56.840 repeating all the Matrix, okay, and that all of these 161 00:09:56.879 --> 00:10:00.240 are real like they happen. But then it's like the 162 00:10:00.440 --> 00:10:03.039 you know, the third iteration or the tenth iteration or whatever, 163 00:10:03.120 --> 00:10:06.279 you know, like in the Matrix, the architect guys like 164 00:10:06.320 --> 00:10:09.720 you're the sixth chosen one or whatever the heck in 165 00:10:09.759 --> 00:10:13.399 that scene. I don't know if that's cope, that's kopium 166 00:10:13.480 --> 00:10:15.960 on the on the part of fans. I don't think 167 00:10:16.000 --> 00:10:18.879 that the creators have any anything they want to say 168 00:10:18.919 --> 00:10:21.840 that they intended. They just want to keep making stuff 169 00:10:21.879 --> 00:10:25.080 with this product. It's with these characters because they find 170 00:10:25.120 --> 00:10:27.120 them interesting. And that's that's the thing. Like when I 171 00:10:27.159 --> 00:10:31.759 said plot doesn't matter, this is all about characters. Yeah, 172 00:10:32.000 --> 00:10:35.799 about about the central characters of this show. So like 173 00:10:35.919 --> 00:10:39.639 you started, like, what what do you understand so far 174 00:10:39.919 --> 00:10:43.200 of I guess the world and then the characters, and 175 00:10:43.240 --> 00:10:44.679 we can we can build off of that. 176 00:10:45.240 --> 00:10:47.559 Sure, well, let me start by just kind of like 177 00:10:48.039 --> 00:10:50.080 bookmarking a few things, and I think we'll talk about 178 00:10:50.080 --> 00:10:53.279 any more detail at a later point. Yeah, And one 179 00:10:53.480 --> 00:10:56.360 is and I think this is an important thing to understand, 180 00:10:56.399 --> 00:10:59.240 and it's also try to kind of explain this because 181 00:10:59.240 --> 00:11:00.519 I'm kind of like a Joe about it. But I 182 00:11:00.639 --> 00:11:05.399 don't think there's a lot to understand here. The next 183 00:11:05.480 --> 00:11:09.440 time that I hear someone as you, as I mentioned, 184 00:11:09.639 --> 00:11:12.200 you sent me a long video about the lore of 185 00:11:12.240 --> 00:11:14.320 the show and it goes very deep and then at 186 00:11:14.360 --> 00:11:15.840 the end it's like, oh, by the way, very little 187 00:11:15.840 --> 00:11:17.559 of this matters and almost none of this is in 188 00:11:17.559 --> 00:11:20.159 the original series and it's all in like video games 189 00:11:20.159 --> 00:11:23.240 and later movies and oh yeah like that. But it 190 00:11:23.360 --> 00:11:25.080 is interesting to know all that if you're a lord 191 00:11:25.120 --> 00:11:29.840 fiend like I am. But knowing what the law is, 192 00:11:30.240 --> 00:11:32.039 and especially as you said that, because the writers have 193 00:11:32.120 --> 00:11:33.320 kind of said that a lot of lor they were 194 00:11:33.360 --> 00:11:37.120 just like, well, this seems fun. Let's do this. The 195 00:11:37.159 --> 00:11:40.039 next time I hear a white person, say, particularly a 196 00:11:40.039 --> 00:11:45.120 white Christian, or the next time I hear a white person, 197 00:11:45.120 --> 00:11:48.919 particularly if they're Jewish or Christian, say, oh, why does 198 00:11:48.960 --> 00:11:52.120 it matter that like they named the evil person Shiva 199 00:11:52.360 --> 00:11:55.639 or like drew On like Buddhist or you know, Islamic 200 00:11:55.759 --> 00:11:58.519 or you know some other kind of like iconography for 201 00:11:58.600 --> 00:12:00.960 the show. It doesn't matter, or it's just a show. 202 00:12:01.759 --> 00:12:05.120 I want them to watch this Lord video because it 203 00:12:05.200 --> 00:12:06.799 is one of the greatest examples of seeing of a 204 00:12:06.840 --> 00:12:09.919 shoe being on the other foot. And I do think 205 00:12:09.919 --> 00:12:12.039 there's in a market difference, to be clear, because of 206 00:12:12.080 --> 00:12:15.799 the power that Christianity and the Jewish stories that are 207 00:12:15.799 --> 00:12:20.440 part of Christianity has. But this is like wildly just 208 00:12:20.519 --> 00:12:22.919 taking like, oh, you know what, crosses look cool and 209 00:12:22.960 --> 00:12:24.799 they mean something to a lot of people. Let's have 210 00:12:24.840 --> 00:12:29.759 crosses everywhere. The main story begins with the idea of 211 00:12:29.840 --> 00:12:36.639 two alien beings named Adam and Lilith coming to Earth, 212 00:12:37.159 --> 00:12:41.639 and for those who don't know, according to Jewish not 213 00:12:41.799 --> 00:12:44.480 in the Bible itself, but in Russia teachings and other 214 00:12:44.519 --> 00:12:47.519 things like that, Lilith has often prescribed to be the 215 00:12:47.559 --> 00:12:51.440 original wife of Adam, who wasn't obedient and so therefore 216 00:12:51.480 --> 00:12:53.399 Eve was creating. And there's so much to go into there, 217 00:12:53.399 --> 00:12:53.799 and I won't. 218 00:12:53.840 --> 00:12:54.159 I won't. 219 00:12:54.360 --> 00:12:56.240 I'm not going to do all that here. There's also 220 00:12:56.279 --> 00:12:59.000 a reference to the spear that was used to pierce 221 00:12:59.039 --> 00:13:01.639 the side of Jesus he's on the cross. The cross 222 00:13:01.679 --> 00:13:06.000 imagery is all over the place, angels, and I didn't 223 00:13:06.039 --> 00:13:08.000 feel offended or bothered by it as a Christian in 224 00:13:08.000 --> 00:13:10.399 any way. I think, like, you know, you. 225 00:13:10.399 --> 00:13:15.000 Were trying to figure it out, right, Yeah, this what 226 00:13:15.039 --> 00:13:17.320 does this mean? And then when the. 227 00:13:17.320 --> 00:13:20.679 Interview being like, oh, this is exactly what happened so 228 00:13:20.759 --> 00:13:23.840 often this is not someone who really studied this and 229 00:13:23.879 --> 00:13:26.679 like got with a mi Raushic rabbi to like understand, 230 00:13:26.679 --> 00:13:28.519 they were just like, oh, this sounds cool, let's throw 231 00:13:28.559 --> 00:13:33.000 it in, which again I think, you know, Christianity could 232 00:13:33.039 --> 00:13:35.039 use some punching up at it, and I do think 233 00:13:35.039 --> 00:13:36.720 it's different when you do that with cultures that are 234 00:13:36.799 --> 00:13:40.519 more often misrepresented. But there was an uncomfortness for me 235 00:13:40.639 --> 00:13:44.799 there and like about Oh, like I've always intellectually understood 236 00:13:44.840 --> 00:13:47.879 why this is so bothersome to people of other religions 237 00:13:47.919 --> 00:13:51.240 and cultures. I've never experienced it quite in the same way, Okay, 238 00:13:51.679 --> 00:13:53.919 And and that was just to me, So that was 239 00:13:53.960 --> 00:13:55.679 kind of my first real thought about all of it. 240 00:13:57.639 --> 00:14:01.159 This second though, as you said, again, I just want 241 00:14:01.200 --> 00:14:03.799 to real quick, Like you mentioned the Adam and the 242 00:14:03.840 --> 00:14:07.480 Lilith and then the Prime the antagonists on the show 243 00:14:08.440 --> 00:14:12.759 are these monsters, right, and they call them angels in 244 00:14:12.799 --> 00:14:14.320 the in the translation. 245 00:14:14.919 --> 00:14:17.759 Yeah, exactly, And and a lot of it's about like 246 00:14:18.200 --> 00:14:22.960 the nature of free will. There's a lot of Christian stories. Again, 247 00:14:22.960 --> 00:14:25.879 most of these are non biblical, but where there uh 248 00:14:26.000 --> 00:14:28.360 And honestly, it's one of the few parts of Christian 249 00:14:28.399 --> 00:14:32.960 theology that supernatural gets fairly accurate. Uh No, take that back. 250 00:14:37.360 --> 00:14:40.879 And as another example, there's a lot of stories within Christianity, 251 00:14:40.919 --> 00:14:43.440 again non biblical for the most part, but about this 252 00:14:43.519 --> 00:14:48.360 idea that angels are perfectly obedient to God and that 253 00:14:48.519 --> 00:14:51.519 humans are not, and that there's a real question of 254 00:14:51.559 --> 00:14:55.080 which one God loves more. Uh, you know, the kind 255 00:14:55.120 --> 00:14:58.320 of the rebellious child who God is proud of versus 256 00:14:58.320 --> 00:15:00.799 the purely obedient one. And that comes up in a 257 00:15:00.840 --> 00:15:05.360 lot of pop media, everything from like Supernatural to movie Lucifer. 258 00:15:06.919 --> 00:15:08.720 There's a movie in the from the nineties where they 259 00:15:08.759 --> 00:15:10.759 all perch and we're all black the angels do and 260 00:15:10.799 --> 00:15:13.039 I can't remember the name of it, but the point is, Yeah, 261 00:15:13.080 --> 00:15:15.519 there's a lot of like that iconography in this movie 262 00:15:15.840 --> 00:15:19.120 that is fascinating. But if you go too deep on, 263 00:15:19.279 --> 00:15:22.519 you're gonna get very frustrated with And I'm kind of 264 00:15:22.519 --> 00:15:24.440 glad that no one of the Christian right has found 265 00:15:24.519 --> 00:15:27.000 this yet because it would be one more source of 266 00:15:27.039 --> 00:15:28.720 like massive protests and stuff like that. 267 00:15:29.480 --> 00:15:32.960 Oh well, I'm sure they have people are aware of it, 268 00:15:33.200 --> 00:15:37.080 but yeah, I'm trying to think there. I remember there 269 00:15:37.159 --> 00:15:41.559 was a movie called Legion. Mm hmm with Paul Bettany. 270 00:15:42.279 --> 00:15:43.120 Is that what your thing? 271 00:15:43.240 --> 00:15:43.360 Like? 272 00:15:43.440 --> 00:15:46.720 That? That one like he is an angel and then 273 00:15:46.919 --> 00:15:50.000 God has decided to purge humanity and he defies God 274 00:15:50.039 --> 00:15:52.039 and like fights against other angels. 275 00:15:52.480 --> 00:15:56.240 That might be it so off the check, but anyway, 276 00:15:56.399 --> 00:15:58.840 but to get back to Dean Genesis, I I just 277 00:15:58.879 --> 00:16:00.399 had to say that it was such a thing. It 278 00:16:00.159 --> 00:16:01.279 came so forward to me. 279 00:16:01.840 --> 00:16:05.679 No, I I think, like this is a very prominent 280 00:16:05.840 --> 00:16:12.480 example of cultural appropriation right, right of cherry picking names 281 00:16:12.559 --> 00:16:17.320 and lore from Christianity with in my opinion, like i'm 282 00:16:18.039 --> 00:16:23.600 not really a depth of understanding mh or respect to 283 00:16:23.960 --> 00:16:29.399 the original. Like I wouldn't say that it's like intentionally disrespectful, 284 00:16:30.039 --> 00:16:32.039 but I don't think it is done in a way 285 00:16:32.080 --> 00:16:35.440 to be like this, this is our understanding of Christianity 286 00:16:35.519 --> 00:16:37.399 and how we want to interrivet it. I think they 287 00:16:37.480 --> 00:16:38.759 just like took the names. 288 00:16:38.720 --> 00:16:40.600 From Yeah, I mean I usually just kind of throw 289 00:16:40.600 --> 00:16:43.440 off example, but like think about Western stories where like 290 00:16:43.440 --> 00:16:46.399 the bad person is named Shiva or some other Hindi god, 291 00:16:46.679 --> 00:16:50.600 you know, or something like that. You know, because again, 292 00:16:50.639 --> 00:16:52.320 like I said, it's like it's not that it's let's 293 00:16:52.399 --> 00:16:54.360 make fun of this, it's just, hey, this is in 294 00:16:54.399 --> 00:16:58.759 the in the overculture. M hmm. I think another thing 295 00:16:58.799 --> 00:17:00.600 that I really recognize about the shit. Oh and here's again, 296 00:17:00.799 --> 00:17:04.359 I think you're right, the plot doesn't matter, you know, 297 00:17:04.440 --> 00:17:08.839 think about your basic superhero movie. We're at the point 298 00:17:08.880 --> 00:17:13.119 now where there's a well established trope of how a 299 00:17:13.119 --> 00:17:15.480 superhero movie goes, and some of them are interesting because 300 00:17:15.519 --> 00:17:17.799 they break the trope, but a lot of them are interesting, 301 00:17:17.960 --> 00:17:19.880 They say, what if it's a different kind of superhero, 302 00:17:20.240 --> 00:17:23.680 but in the same trope, it'll be they get powers, 303 00:17:24.279 --> 00:17:26.920 they're reluctant to use the powers, they're convinced to use 304 00:17:26.920 --> 00:17:29.839 the powers. They start using the powers, they become really 305 00:17:30.079 --> 00:17:33.880 powerful and good at it. They meet a challenge that 306 00:17:33.920 --> 00:17:36.160 actually is the first one who can stop them maybe, 307 00:17:36.440 --> 00:17:38.839 and they have doubts, and then something helps them to 308 00:17:39.480 --> 00:17:42.200 you know, reassert themselves, and then they defeat the enemy, 309 00:17:42.440 --> 00:17:45.359 often by conquering their own inner demon in some way, 310 00:17:45.400 --> 00:17:48.240 their ego or their inability to connect to others, or 311 00:17:48.240 --> 00:17:50.440 their fear of goldfish, or you know, whatever the hell 312 00:17:50.440 --> 00:17:56.400 it is, in the same way. Three minutes into this show, 313 00:17:56.599 --> 00:17:59.480 I was like, Okay, so this young boy is gonna 314 00:17:59.480 --> 00:18:01.880 wind up being very reluctant to be the mecha pilot. 315 00:18:02.119 --> 00:18:04.240 But he's going to be the Meca pilot, and it's 316 00:18:04.279 --> 00:18:05.720 going to be very difficult for him to be the 317 00:18:05.720 --> 00:18:07.759 mecha pilot, and at some point he's going to want 318 00:18:07.759 --> 00:18:09.880 to stop being the mecha pilot. But then when he 319 00:18:09.920 --> 00:18:11.920 sees this other girl who he thinks is kind of 320 00:18:11.960 --> 00:18:14.559 pretty try to be an mecha pilot and it hurting her, 321 00:18:14.799 --> 00:18:16.359 he's going to decide he has to be the mecha 322 00:18:16.359 --> 00:18:19.519 pilot again. And there's gonna be a shadowy human conspiracy 323 00:18:19.559 --> 00:18:23.640 that's running all of this, that has like their own 324 00:18:23.680 --> 00:18:26.440 agenda of what's going to happen to humanity, even though 325 00:18:26.440 --> 00:18:29.279 they seem to be helping humanity, And at some point 326 00:18:29.319 --> 00:18:33.359 our Scooby gang of ragtag teenage heroes are going to 327 00:18:33.400 --> 00:18:35.759 figure all this out and try to stop it. And 328 00:18:35.799 --> 00:18:37.640 I know that the ending gets a lot more complicated 329 00:18:37.720 --> 00:18:40.960 than that, but very quickly I was like, I don't 330 00:18:40.960 --> 00:18:43.039 think there's gonna be many hot points that surprise me, 331 00:18:44.000 --> 00:18:46.279 But like you said, I didn't really care because I 332 00:18:46.319 --> 00:18:48.799 found the characters so fascinating because I thought it was 333 00:18:48.880 --> 00:18:52.400 such a good job of showing trauma and how trauma 334 00:18:52.400 --> 00:18:56.519 affects people, especially young people, and also of exploring that 335 00:18:56.599 --> 00:18:58.720 question that we talked about just a few episodes of 336 00:18:59.440 --> 00:19:01.480 to what extra do you get to decide? I don't 337 00:19:01.559 --> 00:19:03.839 want to fulfill my destiny. I don't want to be 338 00:19:04.519 --> 00:19:06.440 the person who has to risk it all in order 339 00:19:06.480 --> 00:19:09.480 to save everybody else, because it is very much a 340 00:19:09.519 --> 00:19:13.279 show where everyone in the in the show is is, 341 00:19:13.799 --> 00:19:17.119 you know, guilting him or straight up bullying him or 342 00:19:17.160 --> 00:19:19.920 rejecting him if he won't telling him he's got to 343 00:19:19.960 --> 00:19:22.400 be the one to get himself into this mecca and 344 00:19:22.400 --> 00:19:23.519 and go and save the day. 345 00:19:26.000 --> 00:19:28.559 Yeah, so let's let's set the stage a little. The 346 00:19:28.599 --> 00:19:32.079 main the main character is Shinji i Kari. He's the 347 00:19:32.160 --> 00:19:36.640 young boy who is the pilot of the VA zero 348 00:19:36.720 --> 00:19:40.359 one and and so the the meccas in the show 349 00:19:40.400 --> 00:19:44.039 are called Evangelian short shorthand as EVAs. 350 00:19:44.839 --> 00:19:47.920 Here are a question for you. Some characters refer to 351 00:19:48.000 --> 00:19:50.839 him as Shinja, some as Akari. 352 00:19:50.960 --> 00:19:52.720 And name Shinji I Kai. 353 00:19:53.359 --> 00:20:00.160 Right, Well, and I know so well. I'm asking this 354 00:20:00.240 --> 00:20:02.359 because I know that I know. I know in a 355 00:20:02.359 --> 00:20:05.640 Western sense what it means when someone refers to someone 356 00:20:05.680 --> 00:20:08.599 as their first name versus by their last name. And 357 00:20:08.799 --> 00:20:11.119 I kind of but I don't know in a Japanese sense, 358 00:20:11.200 --> 00:20:13.759 what is what is being conveyed when someone uses the 359 00:20:13.799 --> 00:20:15.200 first part of his name or the last part of 360 00:20:15.200 --> 00:20:15.519 his name. 361 00:20:16.519 --> 00:20:23.160 I would say, in general, someone who calls him Shinji 362 00:20:23.559 --> 00:20:27.039 is closer to him mm hmm, like it's a it's 363 00:20:27.079 --> 00:20:33.640 a friendlier way to call someone. And then yeah, because 364 00:20:33.640 --> 00:20:36.519 his last name Ikari, like they might you might say 365 00:20:36.559 --> 00:20:39.400 Ikayi son, which I don't think they do. I think 366 00:20:39.440 --> 00:20:43.920 pretty much everyone calls him ikari kun. The suffix basically 367 00:20:43.960 --> 00:20:47.799 for like a kid, like a young kid, young boy. So, 368 00:20:48.559 --> 00:20:50.559 and then his father is in this as well, right 369 00:20:50.599 --> 00:20:53.799 like if you met him yep, So his father is 370 00:20:53.839 --> 00:20:58.559 a character gendo ikari and they might refer to whoms 371 00:20:58.599 --> 00:21:03.440 gendo or ikaii son. Again, son is like the more adult, 372 00:21:03.559 --> 00:21:09.720 respectful suffix to the last name. So I think most 373 00:21:09.720 --> 00:21:13.480 of the adults probably call him ikari kun. And then 374 00:21:13.759 --> 00:21:17.480 the other megapilots or his classmates at school call him, 375 00:21:17.599 --> 00:21:26.240 might call him shinji. Yeah, so he you've met him. 376 00:21:27.160 --> 00:21:33.880 You've met uh ray Im the other pilot so far. 377 00:21:35.240 --> 00:21:40.240 And she she's a girl, and ray in particular is 378 00:21:40.920 --> 00:21:45.880 very iconic within the fantom, and just like anime, she 379 00:21:46.240 --> 00:21:52.000 is like the prototype kind of like I guess nowadays 380 00:21:52.039 --> 00:21:56.079 we'll call them manic pixie dream girls. Right. She's got 381 00:21:56.119 --> 00:22:02.720 the colored hair, it's what she's her hair. And she 382 00:22:03.200 --> 00:22:07.880 is mysterious, yeah, like we don't know everything about her. 383 00:22:08.400 --> 00:22:12.640 She's very quiet but also a very good pilot. So 384 00:22:12.640 --> 00:22:17.000 she's got like all these qualities that it's set up 385 00:22:17.039 --> 00:22:19.960 in the beginning as like, oh, like you would expect 386 00:22:20.079 --> 00:22:23.680 that she is going to be his love interest on 387 00:22:23.720 --> 00:22:24.119 this show. 388 00:22:24.680 --> 00:22:26.400 And yeah, and when we meet her, she's also very 389 00:22:26.400 --> 00:22:29.640 badly injured from the last time she was a pilot, 390 00:22:29.640 --> 00:22:31.519 and that's part of why he you know, he's being 391 00:22:31.519 --> 00:22:35.079 pushed into it. I found the instruction of her character, 392 00:22:35.279 --> 00:22:37.640 especially with the two other young women in his life, 393 00:22:37.759 --> 00:22:39.519 very interesting, and I want to kind of ask more 394 00:22:39.559 --> 00:22:42.160 about that because so he is supposed to be a 395 00:22:42.200 --> 00:22:45.640 young teenager. He's fourteen, and I think Ray is also 396 00:22:45.720 --> 00:22:46.599 a similar age. 397 00:22:46.920 --> 00:22:50.960 Yeah, they're classmates, right, like all of this because it's 398 00:22:50.960 --> 00:22:53.640 an anime. All of this takes place like partly in 399 00:22:53.720 --> 00:22:58.440 this futuristic like military battle station. Oh yeah, there's also 400 00:22:58.440 --> 00:23:01.119 a school in this time. See, they expect there. 401 00:23:01.119 --> 00:23:03.640