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Speaker 1: What is up, fellows, Echoes, I am Dan Fa Valley

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coming at you with the certified fantabulous our resident rock star,

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mister Grant Hughes. We're gathered here today for DeAndre eight

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into the Wizard's Emergency Podcast. This is gonna be It's

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gonna be lots of fun and to you come. We

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had we know we had this on the books. We've

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got a lot of news to catch up on DeAndre

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and being part of it because we're gonna talk a

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lot about the Lakers, but we've not talked about the

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John Brown trade, the Walker Kessler sign and trade other

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stuff that are boring a hole in our brains. But

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the question that we all want to know the answer to, Grant,

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how thatck are you?

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Speaker 2: I'm I'm conflicted about some of these trades and therefore

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very excited to talk to you about all this stuff because,

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like I there's a handful of some of the biggest transactions.

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I'm still forming, Like I don't. I feel like I'm

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like part way to not a take, but like a

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cogent like thought on it where if someone asked me

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what do you think about this trade? I would have

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an answer like right now, I kind of just have

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disparate thoughts that, based on our conversation, might sway me

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pretty strongly towards the positive or negative on some of

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the most some of these trades. Would you agree with

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this starting point, Like some of these trades have been shocking,

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like some of the biggest ones that like the packages,

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whether it's the packages going out or just the player themselves.

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We already talked to Kawhi earlier this week, but some

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of these more recent ones are I don't know, it's

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they're just hard to get my head around. So excited

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to make an effort to do that. Don't know if

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we can.

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Speaker 1: I don't remember. Some of the trade, like the LaMelo

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Ball trade was really shocking, like this being the off

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season of all off seasons that they moved him to

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me was funny when it was talked about for years. Yeah,

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John Brown one was a good harbinger of how wild

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this off seas has been because you kind of sense that, Okay,

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Jalen Brown is gonna get traded, but to the Sixers

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who just beat them in the playoffs and then for

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that return was just not something that like I saw coming,

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And that's where we wanted to start right, was let's

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talk about the Jalen Brown trade. So the package vitals

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for anyone who might not know them, Paul George and

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two first round picks, one of which is probably a swap.

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I think the best way to kind of boil that

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down is it's probably gonna be like the Clippers pick

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is right? Is that like the best way to I

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have it in our notes of what's like probably the

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best way to frame it. But it could be a swap,

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it could be an outright pick, depending on how it happens.

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And they also get two second rounders, so it's a

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twenty twenty eight first round pick. It's the most likely

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outcome I have listed in the notes is swapping the

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lesser of Boston slash San Antonio's twenty twenty eight pick

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for the Clippers pick in twenty eight.

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Speaker 2: I think, yeah, we can just call it a first

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in a swap, an unprotected first and a swap, right,

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That's that's yeah, just to keep it simple.

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Speaker 1: And that's first is in twenty thirty one. Then the

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two seconds is the most favorable of Golden State, Milwaukee

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or Minnesota in twenty eight, and then the twenty thirty

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second is most favorable of Phoenix, Portland and Washington, and

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then Jalen Brown of course is going to the Philadelphia

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seventy six ers. Grant, I give you the floor, I.

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Speaker 2: Mean, yeah, thanks, thanks a lot. I just prefaced all

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this by saying I don't know what I think. Well, okay,

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I I think my very first react, well not my

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first reaction, but where I've landed and feel fairly confident

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is it seems un It seems highly likely, almost undeniable,

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that this trade makes the Boston Celtics a worst playoff team.

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And I think it's important to emphasize that distinction this

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year than they would have otherwise been because and that

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folds in a lot of different elements of the Jalen

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Brown discourse. We can talk about the analytics stuff, but

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can we agree on that? Can we agree that the

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Celtics with Jalen Brown would have been a better, more

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dangerous playoff team this coming season than the Celtics with

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Paul George, or more likely to be more dangerous with

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Jalen Brown.

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Speaker 1: Yes, I think the fit is a little wonkier when

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you dig into it. But Jalen Brown, here's an analytics

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stat has played in basically one hundred more regular season

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games over the past half decade, then Paul George.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, if only using availability, right, because it's like, well,

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would you rather have Jalen Brown or not Jalen Brown

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and not Paul George, which is probably as likely as

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any other outcome is that George just doesn't make it

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through the season in playoffs healthy. So I think if

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you start from there, you then have to start justifying,

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finding justifications for why Boston did this, because unless the

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Celtics thought, and we would both have disagreed with this,

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that with Brown and Tatum in this supporting cast that

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we've supplemented with Mitchell Robinson were not a contender, unless

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they thought that this feels this is a step back,

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and therefore like, well, there's no we might as well

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start tearing this down, right, which would be one way

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to view this Brown trade. I guess it's a step

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back for Boston in the immediate in the postseason, which

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is all Boston should really care about at a time

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when it seems like the rest of the East is

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viewing the conference is pretty wide open based on some

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of the moves we've seen, right, So nobody's afraid of

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the Knicks being a juggernaut, and there's all these other

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moves that have happened that suggests a lot of East

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teams think we could win the conference. Boston would have

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been in that group. Maybe Boston still is in that group,

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but I think they have to be viewed as being

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farther down than they would have been with Jalen Brown.

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So then how do you justify this from Boston's perspective?

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Do you, like, do you have a number one if

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you had to defend the Celtics, what would you say

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as your first argument on this trade.

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Speaker 1: That you felt you needed to move him because of

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I guess things he had said over the offseason, things

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that have happened maybe that we don't even know about,

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and because of the very public negotiations with Giannis, which

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came on the heels of a couple of years ago,

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very public negotiations for Kevin Durant, which he was involved in.

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I think that's a flimsy case. I don't think that

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Jalen Brown by any stretch was considered a low maintenance superstar,

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but I think that's true of most superstars. Most superstars

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are not Steph Curry, They're not Damian Lillard's pretty low maintenance, right,

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Nicole Jokic.

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Speaker 2: Or even someone like Tatum just to provide a pretty

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immediate contrast, right, right, that's all fair.

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Speaker 1: What I just but that to me, that's even flimsy?

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Is I this to me? Reeks more of Oh, you

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went into the off season and decided you needed to

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try trade Jalen Brown, in which case, if that's the

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decision just before I throw it back to you, I

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still don't and I wouldn't have traded him, not for this,

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but I also just wouldn't have traded him.

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Speaker 2: Yeah.

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Speaker 1: The other thing is if you if we're operating under

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the assumption that you needed to trade him, though, why

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not Wait? Where is this? Where is this offer going?

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And I don't I know, I don't think the Celtics

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accepted an actively like worse package than what was out

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there for Jalen Brown. I don't. I've gotten better. I

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think is we've done this longer and longer of saying yeah,

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there's instances where a front office might choose, you know,

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for instance, the Spurs with Kawhi Leonard when they traded

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him the first time. No, they should have traded him

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for a package built a round pick. So there are

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instances of that, But to me, it was pretty clear

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here that this was just the best package available for

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Jalen Brown. So I won't argue against that logic. What

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I will argue against is if that's the best package

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available for Jalen Brown, then you don't trade Jalen Brown.

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Speaker 2: I think I agree with you there. There's so much

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to get to, even just from what you said. I

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think I don't want to get to the actual trade

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package just yet, because that's fascinating to me. But I

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where I landed similarly, was this felt like a move

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because because why wouldn't you wait? Like how much worse

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could could his value get? Really? And I what seems

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plausible to me is that one there must have been

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personality stuff or or something that we are not privy

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to that that really made it so that going into

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the season with him on the team was just untenable,

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like he was gonna sit out or like some I

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don't know, I'm just I'm totally speculating, like something this

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was not a thing where you could, well, let's readdress

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it at the deadline when maybe he plays great and

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you know, half a year that contract is off the books,

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like it seems like that was just not an option

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the Celtics wanted to entertain, and that has to be

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viewed through the sort of personality.

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Speaker 1: Lens.

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Speaker 2: I guess, so, so okay, so you had to do it.

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It is shocking to me that his value was this

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low because you could, because you could make the case

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that it should cost you a couple firsts or at

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least one good one, just to get off of Paul George.

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You know, I, I know there's only two years left

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and one's a player option, and it is it it?

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You know, there's a there's a possibility that, as as

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Carrigan is mentioning here in the in the chat, Paul

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George could have a healthy playoff run. And in that case,

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you could squint and look at the analytics that say

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Paul George is a more helpful winning player and say, like,

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maybe Boston's actually better. Sure possible. You can't say it's likely,

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you just can't. So like to get off Paul George's

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contract should have cost like most of this package to

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also get Jalen Brown, to me, is wild. So that

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to me, I think we need to talk about his

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value because this gets us into the analytics stuff. Where

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you know, it's a compelling case that this guy is

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not worth what he's making, which has got one hundred

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and eighty million dollars left over the next three years.

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And another fear factor here for Boston is like that

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extension that they could add even more onto that. I

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understand not wanting to be involved in that. Having said that,

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it's not like the case against Brown as a helpful

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winner based on the advanced metrics is new, and Boston

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signed him to that massive contract with basically all the

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same information that is being dredged up now about how Brown, well,

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I go on off is bad and he's not an

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efficient scorer, he's a terrible passer, like, he's not a

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good off ball defender, all that stuff that feeds into

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him being rated so low relative to his profile by

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the advanced numbers on off stuff. I just I'm still

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stunned that this is this is what the market said

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he was worth, Like doesn't I can you make sense

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of that for me? Because well, he's still I just

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I can't. Did the numbers say what they say, like

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this guy has had a ten year career that like

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basically is uniform, and that the Celtics are better without

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him than with him, you know, if you just look

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at record or you're just looking on off or whatever.

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But that's that tells me that those numbers aren't capturing

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anything right.

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Speaker 1: And so here's what I'm also struggling with, because I

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think the best explanation would be the analytics. I would

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think they're looking at is the balance sheet. You mentioned

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his extension, but they're only shaving off a year of

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salary here. And I am unmoved by the argument that, well,

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there might be another move coming, maybe they'll turn Paul

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George and this stuff into Trey Murphy and Jordan Poole

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was the name that was floated, and I said, if

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that's the order of operations, I think this looks dumber

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where Trey Murphy's a great player, But the value in

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Jaylen Brown to me is we can point to let's

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point to the numbers. Everyone's talked about it. I'll admit

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it is objectively strange that they have been better technically

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without him on the court, but they're still when you

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do over the half over the last half decade, playoffs

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in regular season, you are still a net positive with

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him on the court plus eight point nine points per

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one hundred persons when he plays with Tatum, So that

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gives you a ceiling plus five point two points per

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one hundred possessions when he plays without Tatum. If that's you're, yes, okay, great,

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plus twelve point two when it's Tatum without Brown. But

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my thing here is that's kind of the like, if

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your second best player is able to help you win

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the minutes that are so low, ye, okay, you can

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have better on off splits, when when your better player

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is on his own, okay, he's probably going up against

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inferior competition, and that there has to be lineup noise

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and shooting luck based in that. The other thing is

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are we like It feels as if people are acting

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like this is novel in the sense of players aren't

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together as longer. So it's hard to take these half

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decade samples, which is why the Jalen Brown analytics case

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is so fascinating. Let's look at Jamal Murray and Nicole Okich.

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Is Nicoli Okic not a superstar because the Nuggets are

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losing the minutes that he plays without Jamal Murray over

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the past half decade. No, it's because those two are

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inextricably tied together in large part because the Nuggets don't

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trust Jamal Murray, and they haven't. We don't see the

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same type of staggering patterns in Boston. I mean, if

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you just look again, Jamal Murray had injuries, but again

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that I would argue that this is part of it too.

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Jalen Brown, across the playoffs in regular season, has played

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five three hundred and twenty three minutes without Jason Tatum

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on the floor. Would you care to guess how many

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minutes during that same span Jamal Murray's played without Niccoli. Okitch,

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Oh like less than half of that twenty nine hundred Okay,

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So it's just like part of his value is being available,

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but that okay, he can be in a lineup on

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his own, and maybe we're not better because of it,

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but that gives us a floor and maybe it comes

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at the cost of are we a little bit worse

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when he's next to Tatum because the possessions get weird?

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I suppose that's an argument I'd be willing to entertain. Again,

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the numbers are fascinating to me, but I sort of

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look at it as you can't reallocate the volume that

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he was giving you not just with his availability, but

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you could hate his shot diet and the way that

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he had tunnel vision on his drives and lack of playmaking.

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But you can't. I would argue that can you even

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slot Jason Tatum and tell and say go do the

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Jalen Brown stuff? And it's cool that Paul George analytically

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looks Rosier on paper. Right now, A couple things that

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I think were the big thing I think people have

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ignored here is that Paul George got a twenty five

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game forced sabbatical to rest up and come back. Is

279
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that the in Boston too over the course of a

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full season. I just I know I'm rambling, but I

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look at the numbers and I get it. But there's

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to me if you based this trade off on off

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splits or just the analytics, I think that's insane. And

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I didn't even look at it this way until you

285
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said it too. You knew all this when you gave

286
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him his first extension. This isn't news to you. So

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I think there are just certain things that numbers can't capture.

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But I think what's getting lost in all this is, Okay,

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the Nuggets with the Celtics with just Tatum have been

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statistically more successful when Jalen Brown is off the court.

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I would love to dig into what's the level of

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competition they're facing, the percentage of minutes that are coming

293
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against backups. But the fact that you're still so freaking

294
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good when the two of them together, and Jalen Brown

295
00:15:53,559 --> 00:15:57,279
gave you a lifeline, a floor, a higher floor when

296
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Tatum's not on the court, I think that to matter too.

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And if you're saying he's just not worth his contract,

298
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well now we've officially entered the realm of you only

299
00:16:07,120 --> 00:16:11,080
want top ten, certified, top fifteen guys on Max deals

300
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And that's fine, But that's what makes this package so

301
00:16:15,159 --> 00:16:18,000
dissonant to me, is you unless you think Paul George

302
00:16:18,000 --> 00:16:21,600
is declining his player option, you didn't save yourself money.

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It seems like you spared yourself awkwardness, which is just

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the talent downgrade that's not worth it to me.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, what is up, Fellasikos?

306
00:16:30,480 --> 00:16:33,200
Speaker 1: You're listening to this episode right now thinking, Wow, would

307
00:16:33,200 --> 00:16:34,960
be so cool if there were no ads on it.

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Speaker 2: We have the power to make this the last ad

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00:16:36,879 --> 00:16:38,840
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310
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311
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00:16:43,039 --> 00:16:46,039
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314
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can't emphasize that enough of no more ads, which is

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a huge bonus. We're gonna do a couple of Patreon

316
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You get our sincerest appreciation, which really can you put

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a price on it? If you want to support the pod,

320
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that is the best way to do it. Thank you

321
00:17:05,319 --> 00:17:07,160
again as always for listening and for watching.

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Speaker 1: And now back to the show.

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00:17:08,839 --> 00:17:12,079
Speaker 2: Well, yeah, like the awkwardness and the return price are

324
00:17:12,160 --> 00:17:15,200
linked where it's like I said, you know, facetiously, like

325
00:17:15,240 --> 00:17:16,839
he's going to sit the season out because he's so

326
00:17:16,960 --> 00:17:23,240
mad and so like I just I just have a

327
00:17:23,240 --> 00:17:27,119
hard time believing that the Celtics by waiting would have

328
00:17:27,160 --> 00:17:30,960
done significantly worse than this in a return package, and

329
00:17:31,240 --> 00:17:34,240
that you know, even if this is all you get,

330
00:17:34,640 --> 00:17:36,720
then okay, at least you gave it a shot for

331
00:17:36,799 --> 00:17:39,599
half a season until February to see if this was salvageable.

332
00:17:40,000 --> 00:17:42,759
I got to say, like, I know, we're kind of

333
00:17:43,039 --> 00:17:45,359
in circles here and we should probably advance the discussion

334
00:17:45,400 --> 00:17:51,359
to the sixer side of this. But the numbers, because

335
00:17:51,400 --> 00:17:54,000
they come over such a large sample, and because they

336
00:17:54,000 --> 00:17:57,559
are in such agreement that Jalen Brown is at the

337
00:17:57,720 --> 00:18:01,839
very least like pretty grossly over paid for what he

338
00:18:02,240 --> 00:18:06,079
does for you in the regular season, it's I can't

339
00:18:06,200 --> 00:18:09,680
just dismiss all that. And I think folded into this too,

340
00:18:10,359 --> 00:18:13,720
is I kind of default to trusting the Celtics to

341
00:18:13,799 --> 00:18:18,680
make smart decisions because they've pretty much done that consistently

342
00:18:18,839 --> 00:18:23,960
for as long as this controlling this front office has

343
00:18:23,960 --> 00:18:28,839
been in charge. That said, I I Nate Duncan made

344
00:18:28,839 --> 00:18:31,359
this point, and I think it's it's it's not an

345
00:18:31,359 --> 00:18:35,039
analytical point. It's not. It's not. It doesn't. It doesn't

346
00:18:35,319 --> 00:18:37,240
put the lie to any of those numbers that I

347
00:18:37,240 --> 00:18:39,480
think are just very compelling when it comes to Brown

348
00:18:39,559 --> 00:18:43,599
being overrated, overpaid, all that stuff. In the postseason, when

349
00:18:43,680 --> 00:18:47,160
you need someone to beat his man and get a

350
00:18:47,200 --> 00:18:51,480
decent shot against the defense, that is taking away all

351
00:18:51,519 --> 00:18:54,839
of the stuff your system wants to accomplish, Jalen Brown

352
00:18:54,839 --> 00:18:57,200
can do that. And when you need someone to guard

353
00:18:57,359 --> 00:19:00,000
an elite score one on one, Jalen Brown can do that.

354
00:19:00,920 --> 00:19:04,519
And that stuff matters more in the playoffs because they

355
00:19:04,640 --> 00:19:07,519
the easy things that Boston excels at, winning the shot

356
00:19:07,640 --> 00:19:09,960
math game, you know, all all that moving the ball,

357
00:19:10,000 --> 00:19:12,720
all that stuff, making more out of like what you'd

358
00:19:12,720 --> 00:19:15,640
call dependent scorers, Like all that stuff kind of goes

359
00:19:15,640 --> 00:19:19,559
away or is is devalued or is minimized. And a

360
00:19:19,599 --> 00:19:22,319
player like Brown, who won a finals MVP and who's

361
00:19:22,400 --> 00:19:25,240
been to six conference finals and who's been no worse

362
00:19:25,279 --> 00:19:28,279
than the second most important player on all those teams,

363
00:19:28,319 --> 00:19:30,079
depending on what you think about like Kyrie, I guess

364
00:19:30,079 --> 00:19:34,319
going way back, like you're giving up that. That's why

365
00:19:34,359 --> 00:19:38,359
I started this by saying the playoff outlook for Boston

366
00:19:38,880 --> 00:19:42,400
to me seems definitely worse. I would not be at

367
00:19:42,400 --> 00:19:44,559
all surprised if they won a ton more regular season

368
00:19:44,559 --> 00:19:46,519
games this year, not obviously because Tatum is going to

369
00:19:46,559 --> 00:19:48,920
be there, but because, like you could talk me into

370
00:19:48,960 --> 00:19:51,359
in the aggregate, Paul George and more from Pritchard and

371
00:19:51,400 --> 00:19:54,559
more from White and whatever else and Mitchell Robinson helping

372
00:19:54,640 --> 00:19:57,200
that this is not that that's related, but like they

373
00:19:57,200 --> 00:19:59,519
could be a much better regular season team. That's totally

374
00:19:59,519 --> 00:20:01,519
plausible to me. But I do think things change in

375
00:20:01,559 --> 00:20:04,039
the postseason and that's where Brown will be most missed

376
00:20:04,839 --> 00:20:07,960
because Paul George can't do the things that Jalen Brown could,

377
00:20:08,279 --> 00:20:11,279
and really Jason Tatum can't either. I mean, that's the

378
00:20:11,319 --> 00:20:14,880
other part of it. So I think it's I think

379
00:20:14,920 --> 00:20:18,480
you have to start with this is probably a bad

380
00:20:18,599 --> 00:20:21,920
move for Boston if they if Boston cares most about

381
00:20:22,039 --> 00:20:27,200
maximizing this season's depth of playoff run. But I understand

382
00:20:27,240 --> 00:20:31,240
wanting nothing to do with Brown's next contract with him

383
00:20:31,279 --> 00:20:33,920
on the team this year from a personality perspective and

384
00:20:34,039 --> 00:20:37,039
believing that you can you can create a better overall

385
00:20:37,079 --> 00:20:39,000
team in the aggregate with him off the books. I

386
00:20:39,519 --> 00:20:40,720
understand those arguments.

387
00:20:41,119 --> 00:20:45,519
Speaker 1: I guess I understand them. But what is I'm going

388
00:20:45,599 --> 00:20:48,240
to need more evidence how toxic was it behind the scenes?

389
00:20:48,240 --> 00:20:52,160
What was he doing? If the other thing, too is okay,

390
00:20:52,200 --> 00:20:55,400
they want no part of his extension. He's got three

391
00:20:55,440 --> 00:20:58,599
guarantee years left on his deal, no options, and so

392
00:20:59,559 --> 00:21:02,200
I think you could argue that do you believe he's

393
00:21:02,200 --> 00:21:05,519
gonna tank his value somehow, because there's a part of

394
00:21:05,559 --> 00:21:08,440
me that thinks just having him and then letting him

395
00:21:08,440 --> 00:21:10,720
come off the books and leave for nothing would have

396
00:21:10,759 --> 00:21:13,160
been preferable to this, because I think that there is

397
00:21:13,240 --> 00:21:16,200
in the next three years with Jalen Brown on the Celtics,

398
00:21:16,440 --> 00:21:18,400
the chances of them winning a title or higher than

399
00:21:18,400 --> 00:21:20,400
they're gonna be in the three years to come. And

400
00:21:20,480 --> 00:21:23,640
if this is the return you accepted, and I'm seeing

401
00:21:23,640 --> 00:21:25,960
in the chat that people understand it, and I'm not

402
00:21:26,119 --> 00:21:30,079
calling Brad Stevens or Mike Zarren dumb, I think this

403
00:21:30,119 --> 00:21:32,440
is a bad move. I wonder if they made it

404
00:21:32,559 --> 00:21:35,400
knowing it's a bad move, in which case we need

405
00:21:35,400 --> 00:21:39,960
more details. I also think that some people it's to

406
00:21:40,000 --> 00:21:42,079
me it's really not an overcorrection, but part of the

407
00:21:42,119 --> 00:21:45,319
emotional response is and not just from Boston's fans, which

408
00:21:45,319 --> 00:21:49,279
you have to understand why it would be emotional for them.

409
00:21:50,720 --> 00:21:53,200
There deserves to be a correction for the like whoever

410
00:21:53,279 --> 00:21:56,480
is smearing Jalen Brown like without putting their name to it,

411
00:21:56,759 --> 00:21:59,400
and when you're talking about him trying to be the

412
00:21:59,440 --> 00:22:02,000
smartest guy in the room, that was something that came

413
00:22:02,000 --> 00:22:03,519
when he was where you go to cal I don't

414
00:22:03,559 --> 00:22:06,200
know players in colleges, but I remember that being like

415
00:22:06,519 --> 00:22:09,799
ruminations around the draft. That stuff is just lame in

416
00:22:09,839 --> 00:22:11,640
the sense that then put your name on it. If

417
00:22:11,680 --> 00:22:14,920
that's actually true. And I think that's part of why

418
00:22:14,960 --> 00:22:18,279
people are just like because it to me my opinion,

419
00:22:18,440 --> 00:22:22,200
that's coded, that's just that's racially coded. And I don't

420
00:22:22,960 --> 00:22:27,000
I don't we all do this, myself included, But the

421
00:22:27,039 --> 00:22:29,880
fact that Bobby Marx is able to go on TV

422
00:22:29,960 --> 00:22:31,920
and say that there are some people that think Jalen

423
00:22:31,960 --> 00:22:33,759
Brown or their models, so Jalen Brown is the seventh

424
00:22:33,799 --> 00:22:36,880
best player in the NBA totally unnecessary to say. But

425
00:22:36,920 --> 00:22:40,119
I also don't think that the media drove this trade

426
00:22:40,440 --> 00:22:43,279
into existence. I don't know that they even created any

427
00:22:43,279 --> 00:22:46,240
toxicity between Jalen Brown and Jason Tatum. So I think

428
00:22:46,400 --> 00:22:48,720
just a place where I'm coming at, where I really

429
00:22:48,759 --> 00:22:53,319
believe why I'm so strongly against this is that there

430
00:22:53,400 --> 00:22:57,039
might be a lack of information there. But if you

431
00:22:57,079 --> 00:22:59,400
think he deviated from the script too much, like during

432
00:22:59,440 --> 00:23:03,559
the three to one collapse, I don't think that, like

433
00:23:04,920 --> 00:23:07,279
Jason Tatum was available for a good chunk of that series.

434
00:23:07,319 --> 00:23:09,319
But like Jason tATu's not available by the end of it,

435
00:23:09,359 --> 00:23:12,000
Like what else is supposed to happen there. That's what

436
00:23:12,000 --> 00:23:15,680
I'm struggling to wrap my head around, is I I'm

437
00:23:15,759 --> 00:23:17,599
curious to see what they're They're not gonna give us

438
00:23:17,599 --> 00:23:21,200
any good public explanations, and I find everything that's come

439
00:23:21,240 --> 00:23:27,119
out since unsatisfactory at best. The one thing I am

440
00:23:27,160 --> 00:23:30,880
wondering is and I don't like reading into it or

441
00:23:30,880 --> 00:23:37,519
being this guy, but just the lack of like something

442
00:23:37,640 --> 00:23:43,559
being said from Jason Tatum here or any that that silence.

443
00:23:43,720 --> 00:23:46,160
I'm not a big silence speaks volumes guy, but in

444
00:23:46,200 --> 00:23:47,839
this case, I'm kind of like you guys playing together

445
00:23:47,839 --> 00:23:50,160
for almost a decade, this is weird, right.

446
00:23:50,720 --> 00:23:56,200
Speaker 2: I think I think that, Well, let's look at what

447
00:23:56,319 --> 00:24:00,759
we never got, which was literally anyone coming out and

448
00:24:00,799 --> 00:24:04,240
saying Jalen Brown is a great guy, He's an incredible teammate.

449
00:24:04,559 --> 00:24:08,119
He's not a that never had an issue, never had

450
00:24:08,119 --> 00:24:10,720
a problem, Like no one said that, which is just

451
00:24:10,799 --> 00:24:12,880
a different version of what you're pointing out about Tatum

452
00:24:12,920 --> 00:24:15,160
not coming out or like not going to bat for him.

453
00:24:15,599 --> 00:24:19,000
I'm pretty persuaded that I think you're probably right that

454
00:24:19,039 --> 00:24:21,720
the smartest guy in the room thing has got some

455
00:24:21,920 --> 00:24:25,480
implications to it that are a little unsavory. I'm pretty

456
00:24:25,480 --> 00:24:28,319
convinced that Jalen Brown was like not super fun or

457
00:24:28,359 --> 00:24:33,119
likable to have around on balance, just because you never

458
00:24:33,160 --> 00:24:36,359
heard anyone really argue the opposite in his defense, and

459
00:24:36,440 --> 00:24:38,839
just from what we've seen on he just it seems

460
00:24:38,920 --> 00:24:44,480
like personality was a real factor here. Should it have been?

461
00:24:44,880 --> 00:24:47,200
I don't know, Like we talked last time before this

462
00:24:47,240 --> 00:24:49,440
went down about like, can't everybody just sit down and

463
00:24:49,480 --> 00:24:52,440
hash this out and go into this season together and

464
00:24:52,519 --> 00:24:53,559
just see how good you are.

465
00:24:53,920 --> 00:24:56,880
Speaker 1: I feel like brian' scalabrini playing mediator could have made

466
00:24:56,920 --> 00:25:01,440
this work somebody, like somebody maybe Rivers needs Bill Simmons.

467
00:25:01,519 --> 00:25:04,000
Did you hear the Bill Simmons call an Oscar piece.

468
00:25:03,799 --> 00:25:05,599
Speaker 2: To worry by the way, I did. I just saw

469
00:25:05,640 --> 00:25:10,079
the clip of it. Yeah, I I Like I said, I,

470
00:25:10,440 --> 00:25:13,279
I don't think I feel quite as strongly in the

471
00:25:13,319 --> 00:25:18,480
negative from Boston side as you do about this. Maybe,

472
00:25:18,480 --> 00:25:22,200
And that's maybe because I'm I'm pretty convinced that there's

473
00:25:22,319 --> 00:25:25,400
more to this that we have not in may never

474
00:25:25,640 --> 00:25:29,799
hear as far as like behind the scenes stuff. And

475
00:25:29,839 --> 00:25:32,279
I do think there's a real case from the numbers

476
00:25:32,359 --> 00:25:34,359
that you probably want to get out of the Jalen

477
00:25:34,400 --> 00:25:37,039
Brown business while you can. It just is always going

478
00:25:37,119 --> 00:25:39,200
to strike me as like this just doesn't seem like

479
00:25:39,319 --> 00:25:42,240
enough in a return package to do that.

480
00:25:42,720 --> 00:25:48,000
Speaker 1: I'm when I actually find maybe even more fascinating. And

481
00:25:48,039 --> 00:25:50,680
you alluded to this when you started talking at the top.

482
00:25:51,119 --> 00:25:54,240
Is that his like this was the best offer because

483
00:25:54,240 --> 00:25:56,000
I'm giving the Celtics the benefit of the doubt in

484
00:25:56,000 --> 00:25:58,240
the sense. But this is probably why people are reacting

485
00:25:58,759 --> 00:26:02,200
so shocked or negative is because Boston's become known as

486
00:26:02,720 --> 00:26:05,559
the best run team in the NBA or close to it. Yeah,

487
00:26:05,559 --> 00:26:09,279
and a trade like this just on paper, it looks awful,

488
00:26:09,640 --> 00:26:12,839
and I honestly the Celtics are I think people have

489
00:26:12,920 --> 00:26:16,039
over corrected by saying everyone thinks the Celtics are gonna

490
00:26:16,039 --> 00:26:17,960
suck next season, because I think the Celtics gonna be

491
00:26:18,000 --> 00:26:20,640
really good. I just think there's no way their title

492
00:26:20,680 --> 00:26:23,559
equity has plummeted. You said this with the playoff stuff,

493
00:26:23,759 --> 00:26:26,680
but I'm I'm of the mind that the thing that

494
00:26:26,720 --> 00:26:29,039
gives me the most pauses. So there was no team

495
00:26:29,759 --> 00:26:33,079
that was willing to beat this offer or get into

496
00:26:33,119 --> 00:26:36,680
the Jaylen Brown business, which is, we just saw Trey

497
00:26:36,759 --> 00:26:40,880
Young get max quote unquote maxed out after being salary dumped,

498
00:26:40,880 --> 00:26:44,920
and so that is very strange, somewhat compelling to me,

499
00:26:44,960 --> 00:26:47,960
and look, it piques my curiosity even furtherest. Okay, well

500
00:26:47,960 --> 00:26:49,920
what went wrong here?

501
00:26:50,559 --> 00:26:53,000
Speaker 2: Yeah? I think the more we talk about this, the

502
00:26:53,079 --> 00:26:56,759
more I start to think it's not as big a

503
00:26:56,799 --> 00:26:59,960
catastrophe for Boston as I did initially. It's still probably bad,

504
00:27:00,119 --> 00:27:04,720
but it is funny that like all of the most

505
00:27:04,759 --> 00:27:09,480
like granularly quantifiable stuff that the measurables, the numbers, the

506
00:27:09,519 --> 00:27:13,000
analytics say Brown is not worth it, and then like

507
00:27:13,200 --> 00:27:16,160
we're also at like the intangibles of like team chemistry

508
00:27:16,200 --> 00:27:18,119
is getting brought up in the chat, and like personality

509
00:27:18,160 --> 00:27:21,359
and stuff also recommend against Jalen Brown. So you're kind

510
00:27:21,359 --> 00:27:26,079
of getting anti Brown from from both quantitative and qualitative

511
00:27:26,119 --> 00:27:31,519
and unmeasurable sides. I'm now I'm just kind of repeating myself,

512
00:27:31,559 --> 00:27:35,480
but there's a lot that says you shouldn't have Jalen

513
00:27:35,519 --> 00:27:39,759
Brown on your team for this much money. I still

514
00:27:40,119 --> 00:27:44,920
just gotta believe that Boston somehow could have gotten more

515
00:27:45,000 --> 00:27:48,400
for him, because yeah, that's maybe where I'm landing. It's

516
00:27:48,440 --> 00:27:51,039
just this and the market speaks like this. It's not

517
00:27:51,119 --> 00:27:53,839
like they did a one team you know, showcase and

518
00:27:53,880 --> 00:27:56,359
it's like sixers or nothing. I'm sure he was clearly

519
00:27:56,400 --> 00:28:00,519
available several times over the years and and this is

520
00:28:00,640 --> 00:28:05,160
just what they could get right now, It's always gonna underwhelm.

521
00:28:05,279 --> 00:28:09,079
I think unless you know what, Okay, let's hype. Let's hypothetically,

522
00:28:10,759 --> 00:28:13,119
I don't think this is what's gonna happen. But hypothetically

523
00:28:13,839 --> 00:28:17,839
the Sixers flop, which could happen easily because Embid doesn't

524
00:28:17,839 --> 00:28:21,480
play and Brown looks worse or whatever. Are we talking

525
00:28:21,480 --> 00:28:25,759
about the Jalen Brown contracts as being just as bad

526
00:28:25,839 --> 00:28:27,880
or worse than the Paul George contract in a year.

527
00:28:28,000 --> 00:28:31,039
Speaker 1: No, here's my thing, And I'm not saying that you're saying.

528
00:28:31,160 --> 00:28:34,119
I'm just I'm like, is that possible? And is rhetorical?

529
00:28:34,480 --> 00:28:36,920
I think you hit it on the head before when

530
00:28:37,039 --> 00:28:39,279
you were saying there are so even if Jalen Brown

531
00:28:39,359 --> 00:28:42,200
is imperfect offensively, there are so few people in the

532
00:28:42,279 --> 00:28:46,079
NBA that can handle his combined offensive and defensive workload.

533
00:28:46,119 --> 00:28:47,440
And you could sit there and say, well, like Derek

534
00:28:47,440 --> 00:28:51,359
White's a better team defender. Jason Tatum's a better help defender. Okay, awesome.

535
00:28:51,440 --> 00:28:53,519
Jalen Brown's a better one on one defender than either

536
00:28:53,559 --> 00:28:56,720
of those guys at this point. So I know, I

537
00:28:56,720 --> 00:28:58,319
don't think we're gonna get to a point. You can

538
00:28:58,359 --> 00:29:02,079
also if Jalen Brown has a bad season, you could say,

539
00:29:02,119 --> 00:29:04,559
all right, like he's still on the right side of

540
00:29:04,599 --> 00:29:07,640
thirty one and it's one season versus puled. George is

541
00:29:07,640 --> 00:29:10,400
thirty six years old, Joelle embiid, we have years and

542
00:29:10,480 --> 00:29:13,240
years of availability issues and now he looks like a

543
00:29:13,279 --> 00:29:16,920
shell of himself on defense. So I just it's funny

544
00:29:16,920 --> 00:29:19,200
because you're saying you feel a little bit better or

545
00:29:19,279 --> 00:29:22,720
understand it more from Boston's perspective. I still don't. I

546
00:29:22,799 --> 00:29:25,839
understand wanting to get out of the Jaylen Brown business,

547
00:29:26,240 --> 00:29:29,640
but everything the way they went about it to me

548
00:29:30,319 --> 00:29:33,279
doesn't make any sense. Yeah, if it was even from

549
00:29:33,279 --> 00:29:36,279
a even from a book's balancing perspective, forget about that.

550
00:29:36,359 --> 00:29:39,559
Like you said, maybe they don't care about the next year,

551
00:29:39,720 --> 00:29:42,559
which would again I think is stupid. You have Jaser Tatum,

552
00:29:43,440 --> 00:29:45,640
But okay, so what did you do? So, yes, there

553
00:29:45,680 --> 00:29:48,119
could be more moves to come, but Trey Murphy's not

554
00:29:48,799 --> 00:29:50,960
gonna do it. Trey Murphy can't generate his own shot

555
00:29:51,000 --> 00:29:52,640
in the playoff. We've yet to see Trey Murphy in

556
00:29:52,640 --> 00:29:54,880
the playoffs. But Tray Murphrey can't generate his own shot

557
00:29:55,279 --> 00:29:58,000
in the playoffs. Do we think that Yugo Gonzales is

558
00:29:58,039 --> 00:30:00,440
that player? Do you think Baylor Shireman's that player?

559
00:30:00,480 --> 00:30:01,680
Speaker 2: I can't.

560
00:30:02,000 --> 00:30:04,160
Speaker 1: This is the other thing put your name to Like, No,

561
00:30:04,240 --> 00:30:07,000
I don't think Peyton Pritcher is the next Jalen Brunson. Sorry,

562
00:30:07,359 --> 00:30:10,960
that's not like if you were a take it was

563
00:30:11,119 --> 00:30:14,200
Tom Haberstrow actually had a great article on the whole thing,

564
00:30:14,240 --> 00:30:16,920
but the thing that got clipped was someone and it

565
00:30:17,039 --> 00:30:18,799
was like the sources from the Celtics or saying, like,

566
00:30:18,799 --> 00:30:21,599
we believe Peyton Pritchard could be our Jalen Brunson. No.

567
00:30:22,119 --> 00:30:25,000
Like so that the spin on this I think is frustrated.

568
00:30:25,279 --> 00:30:28,640
Frustrated me the most. So I understand it's not Boston

569
00:30:28,640 --> 00:30:33,240
shouldn't have traded Jalen Brown. It's why act in this way.

570
00:30:33,440 --> 00:30:36,759
And by the way, if you wanted to get out

571
00:30:36,799 --> 00:30:41,519
of Jalen Brown, the Jaylen Brown possess this desperately. All appearances,

572
00:30:41,920 --> 00:30:44,920
all all information points to you were at the one

573
00:30:45,000 --> 00:30:47,920
yard line and Giannis talks and wouldn't give up Yugo

574
00:30:47,960 --> 00:30:50,400
Gonzales or Bill Simmons said they didn't want to give

575
00:30:50,720 --> 00:30:53,440
Giannis a MAX extension. So if you didn't want to

576
00:30:53,440 --> 00:30:57,440
extend Jannis at the max, then this leads me to believe, Okay,

577
00:30:57,480 --> 00:31:00,599
they're really kind of in moneyball mode where they want

578
00:31:00,599 --> 00:31:03,839
to reorient their roster around one mega salary. They've decided

579
00:31:03,880 --> 00:31:07,960
that's Jason Tatum. Fine, but you haven't done that, so

580
00:31:08,000 --> 00:31:09,880
the benefit the doubt would need to be given. This

581
00:31:10,079 --> 00:31:12,519
isn't gonna be the last move of the off season.

582
00:31:12,519 --> 00:31:15,519
I don't wannah the trade deadline. If if you want

583
00:31:15,519 --> 00:31:17,920
to give the Celtics, if the Celtics want to come

584
00:31:17,920 --> 00:31:21,160
off looking charitable or like they made the right decision here.

585
00:31:21,200 --> 00:31:22,799
This isn't a let's wait and see until the trade

586
00:31:22,839 --> 00:31:25,039
deadline thing. For me, it's if there's other moves and

587
00:31:25,119 --> 00:31:29,039
you're trying to restructure the vision of this team, then

588
00:31:29,799 --> 00:31:32,200
it needs to happen this off season. Otherwise, to me,

589
00:31:32,240 --> 00:31:35,480
you're kind of punting on next year regardless of what

590
00:31:35,519 --> 00:31:38,279
you do at the trade deadline. And but if you're

591
00:31:38,319 --> 00:31:40,720
saying that some people have said, well, maybe they're gonna

592
00:31:40,799 --> 00:31:43,559
use this stuff to get the next star who's gonna

593
00:31:43,599 --> 00:31:46,680
be available, that's better than the honest And by the way,

594
00:31:46,680 --> 00:31:48,400
I'm saying this is someone who didn't think they should

595
00:31:48,440 --> 00:31:50,519
have gone all in for you, honest, I clearly have

596
00:31:50,519 --> 00:31:54,559
no idea what they're thinking. There's just so many counterintuitive

597
00:31:54,559 --> 00:31:56,880
factors at play here for me, which I think is

598
00:31:56,960 --> 00:32:00,319
ultimately that the lack of consistency in the approach to

599
00:32:00,359 --> 00:32:04,240
this when you look at how the honest negotiations unfolded,

600
00:32:04,359 --> 00:32:06,880
when you look at how good I still think Jalen

601
00:32:06,920 --> 00:32:10,160
Brown is what the Celtics are Now, what presumptions we

602
00:32:10,200 --> 00:32:12,319
need to make to say that, look at all the

603
00:32:12,400 --> 00:32:14,480
numbers and how good he's the better pick and roll

604
00:32:14,799 --> 00:32:19,119
playmaker and the better three point shooter. I just this

605
00:32:19,160 --> 00:32:21,079
isn't look I'm seeing the chat, this was the best

606
00:32:21,079 --> 00:32:24,160
return they could get for Jalen Brown. I'm not denying that.

607
00:32:24,279 --> 00:32:27,960
I'm puzzled by it. I'm saying you shouldn't have made

608
00:32:28,000 --> 00:32:32,279
the deal then, which is a completely reasonable thing to say,

609
00:32:32,400 --> 00:32:35,119
I would think at this juncture. So yeah, that's just

610
00:32:35,200 --> 00:32:38,039
kind of where I'm at on it. This in the

611
00:32:38,039 --> 00:32:40,039
backdrop of the Yannas stuff where they drew a line

612
00:32:40,079 --> 00:32:43,200
in the sand in that but then Salary dumped Jalen Brown.

613
00:32:43,240 --> 00:32:46,559
Basically is what this feels like is bizarre.

614
00:32:47,359 --> 00:32:50,720
Speaker 2: I think it's it's interesting to flip to the sixer

615
00:32:50,839 --> 00:32:54,920
side and just state how simple this all is, you know,

616
00:32:55,000 --> 00:32:57,519
and how clean and like, yes, of course you just

617
00:32:57,559 --> 00:33:01,400
do this because well, I don't know if that's totally

618
00:33:01,400 --> 00:33:03,920
logical or fair, but like you're getting off of Paul

619
00:33:03,960 --> 00:33:07,119
George's contract, a guy who just like is you say,

620
00:33:07,240 --> 00:33:12,559
thirty six, just cannot stay healthy and like is in

621
00:33:12,680 --> 00:33:17,519
decline and could just be like that decline could accelerate

622
00:33:17,599 --> 00:33:20,359
at this stage given his health track record and just

623
00:33:20,400 --> 00:33:23,799
the age and all that stuff. You get an in

624
00:33:23,920 --> 00:33:27,960
prime superstar that you could give a shit about the analytics. Like,

625
00:33:28,000 --> 00:33:29,839
if this is what it costs you to get someone

626
00:33:29,920 --> 00:33:32,079
like Jaalen Brown, you pay that cost all the time

627
00:33:32,319 --> 00:33:34,960
again to circle all the way back, because it probably

628
00:33:35,000 --> 00:33:37,039
is going to cost you at least one of these

629
00:33:37,160 --> 00:33:39,759
first round assets just to not have to trade Paul

630
00:33:39,759 --> 00:33:43,039
George into cap Space hypothetically was gonna cost you a

631
00:33:43,079 --> 00:33:44,240
first like at.

632
00:33:44,200 --> 00:33:47,759
Speaker 1: Least I would argue more if if you wanted to

633
00:33:47,799 --> 00:33:50,440
take back an expiring deal. I think one of these

634
00:33:50,519 --> 00:33:52,319
picks might have been able, yeah to get.

635
00:33:52,319 --> 00:33:54,559
Speaker 2: So this is just a move you make if you're

636
00:33:54,559 --> 00:33:56,680
the Sixers and you assume all the risks that come

637
00:33:56,720 --> 00:34:00,680
with Jalen Brown, because you're way more danger today than

638
00:34:00,680 --> 00:34:03,640
you were yesterday, and you've gotten off the second worst

639
00:34:03,640 --> 00:34:06,119
asset on your books. Again, assuming Jalen Brown does not

640
00:34:06,160 --> 00:34:09,119
become clear, well, Jaylen Brown, you could make hazy already.

641
00:34:09,119 --> 00:34:11,400
He immediately becomes the second worst asset just because of

642
00:34:11,400 --> 00:34:13,480
how much he makes. But you understand what I'm saying, Like,

643
00:34:14,159 --> 00:34:17,039
you just do this if you're the Sixers, which is

644
00:34:17,039 --> 00:34:18,880
funny to think, Like how that's kind of where my

645
00:34:18,920 --> 00:34:21,519
analysis ends, Like this is a great trade for Philadelphia.

646
00:34:21,519 --> 00:34:24,639
It makes them better. Uh, They're way more interesting, they're

647
00:34:24,679 --> 00:34:28,880
more dangerous, and I don't have any like, I have

648
00:34:28,880 --> 00:34:31,199
no qualms about it whatsoever. We the fit may be

649
00:34:31,320 --> 00:34:34,119
funky with him and embiid sure, and Be's not gonna

650
00:34:34,119 --> 00:34:37,239
play half the season like it just this feels like

651
00:34:37,360 --> 00:34:39,679
a no brainer for the Sixers, which is funny because

652
00:34:39,719 --> 00:34:43,480
we like, I'm really having a hard time with Boston side,

653
00:34:43,519 --> 00:34:46,480
so I should be having a similarly hard time with Philadelphia,

654
00:34:46,519 --> 00:34:46,960
but I'm just.

655
00:34:46,880 --> 00:34:50,000
Speaker 1: Not the It's funny though, when the news first broke,

656
00:34:50,079 --> 00:34:52,280
I hated the deal for both teams, and then you

657
00:34:52,320 --> 00:34:54,719
think about it a little bit more and it was

658
00:34:54,760 --> 00:34:57,679
just no, this is why wouldn't you do this? And

659
00:34:57,719 --> 00:35:00,400
it's also you didn't. Okay, let's just say the Jaalen

660
00:35:00,400 --> 00:35:03,920
Brown contract is underwater. It spans the same length as

661
00:35:04,000 --> 00:35:06,679
Joel Embiid, and so the alternative for these picks, where

662
00:35:07,320 --> 00:35:10,079
could you use the You could not have used these

663
00:35:10,119 --> 00:35:12,159
two draft picks to get off both Joel Embiid and

664
00:35:12,159 --> 00:35:14,159
Paul George. No, it just wouldn't have happened. And by

665
00:35:14,159 --> 00:35:17,480
the way, had you done that, then what what are

666
00:35:17,480 --> 00:35:17,960
you left with?

667
00:35:18,559 --> 00:35:18,840
Speaker 2: Right?

668
00:35:19,280 --> 00:35:23,679
Speaker 1: So just an absolute home run I think by them.

669
00:35:24,719 --> 00:35:26,840
Do you have any I have questions? I'm sure you

670
00:35:26,880 --> 00:35:29,480
do about the fit. I assume him and Joel Ebid

671
00:35:29,480 --> 00:35:31,599
will be fine, even though Jayleen Brown called them a flopper.

672
00:35:32,199 --> 00:35:36,800
I do believe offensively, it feels as if there might

673
00:35:36,840 --> 00:35:41,119
be a lot of redundancies where okay, who can play

674
00:35:41,119 --> 00:35:43,800
off who? Having Tyre's Max and VJ edgecomb is such

675
00:35:43,800 --> 00:35:45,800
a luxury because they can play off anybody and play

676
00:35:45,800 --> 00:35:49,119
whatever style. I think it Bead showed that he could

677
00:35:49,199 --> 00:35:51,639
play off them as well last year, So now you're

678
00:35:51,639 --> 00:35:54,679
adding Jalen Brown into the equation. I'm just a big

679
00:35:54,719 --> 00:35:57,320
believer in top end Town is gonna figure it out.

680
00:35:57,480 --> 00:35:59,800
And I don't love the three Max models still that

681
00:36:00,039 --> 00:36:02,880
Phillies short of working with. But this three Max model

682
00:36:02,920 --> 00:36:04,880
is way more compelling than the one that they had

683
00:36:04,920 --> 00:36:05,960
forty eight hours ago.

684
00:36:06,559 --> 00:36:11,679
Speaker 2: Yeah, I think there are real fit issues to work through.

685
00:36:12,360 --> 00:36:19,039
I think there's I think, like, I don't love the

686
00:36:19,079 --> 00:36:23,239
idea of MAXI having a diminished role at the expense

687
00:36:23,280 --> 00:36:27,840
of to benefit Brown. I don't think Brown. Brown is

688
00:36:27,880 --> 00:36:31,559
not someone that like contributes on the margins, so like

689
00:36:31,599 --> 00:36:33,840
for him to be maximally valuable, I think he does

690
00:36:33,920 --> 00:36:36,159
need to shoot a ton and have the ball a

691
00:36:36,199 --> 00:36:38,840
ton and guard the other team's best player, and like,

692
00:36:38,880 --> 00:36:40,599
who knows a lot of the same on off stuff

693
00:36:40,599 --> 00:36:44,360
may happen here. I just it's a risk I'm taking

694
00:36:45,559 --> 00:36:49,039
because isn't it. Like, let's say it doesn't work. I

695
00:36:49,079 --> 00:36:53,039
think you're trading Brown for positive value if you need to, so, like,

696
00:36:53,679 --> 00:36:55,360
you know, I know that's not how you should think

697
00:36:55,360 --> 00:36:58,480
about it going but as a pure asset play, you

698
00:36:58,679 --> 00:37:01,280
just paid to get off Paul George and you got Brown.

699
00:37:01,360 --> 00:37:05,159
I think you're gonna get paid more for Brown if

700
00:37:05,199 --> 00:37:07,480
you trade him later, right, Like I think, I just

701
00:37:07,519 --> 00:37:09,960
don't think his value seems to have been at its

702
00:37:10,000 --> 00:37:13,159
absolute and nedear when he just got traded, So like,

703
00:37:13,519 --> 00:37:18,079
I don't think his value is getting worse. Maybe I'm wrong,

704
00:37:18,159 --> 00:37:21,480
but I from just the asset play makes sense and

705
00:37:21,880 --> 00:37:24,960
they could figure it out. Like that's that's the chance

706
00:37:25,000 --> 00:37:27,239
I would be willing to take every time. As the

707
00:37:27,280 --> 00:37:32,159
Sixers here, I I'm.

708
00:37:31,480 --> 00:37:33,679
Speaker 1: Just like, I'm still kind of mystified that this is

709
00:37:33,760 --> 00:37:38,480
all took for them to get him. Yeah, Yeah, what's

710
00:37:38,519 --> 00:37:40,880
gonna be the key for him? Because it is, He's

711
00:37:40,920 --> 00:37:42,559
gonna have to fit into kind of a large because

712
00:37:42,599 --> 00:37:45,239
even with Tatum, you could kind of count on John

713
00:37:45,320 --> 00:37:50,079
Brown being just that high usage, super on ball guy

714
00:37:50,159 --> 00:37:52,199
one of two or even one of one, depending on

715
00:37:53,000 --> 00:37:55,519
how you view the way Tatum plays here, it feels

716
00:37:55,519 --> 00:37:56,960
like he's gonna need to get used to playing off

717
00:37:56,960 --> 00:37:58,400
the ball more, and I think he could do that

718
00:37:58,440 --> 00:38:00,719
in transition pretty easily. I'm very to see how this

719
00:38:00,800 --> 00:38:05,239
team's half court offense looks or maybe availability might just

720
00:38:05,920 --> 00:38:08,039
solve a lot of it, because if it's Joel Ebid

721
00:38:08,079 --> 00:38:10,400
missus is only playing in thirty seven games or something,

722
00:38:11,039 --> 00:38:14,039
you don't really have to worry about usage overlap at all.

723
00:38:14,519 --> 00:38:17,119
Speaker 2: That's the thing is you're you're swapping out just take

724
00:38:17,159 --> 00:38:19,599
everything else out of it and turning Paul George into

725
00:38:19,679 --> 00:38:21,960
Jalen Brown. You're getting someone who's probably gonna play twice

726
00:38:21,960 --> 00:38:25,559
as many minutes so and and you're and you're getting

727
00:38:25,599 --> 00:38:28,400
that on a team where you're other another player and

728
00:38:28,559 --> 00:38:31,599
b it is as unreliable health wise as like basically

729
00:38:31,679 --> 00:38:34,320
anyone in the league, as certainly as anyone who's making

730
00:38:34,400 --> 00:38:37,719
the money that he's making. So like, the volume means

731
00:38:37,760 --> 00:38:40,360
something different on this team than it does on almost

732
00:38:40,440 --> 00:38:44,440
any other team because because of Embiid's situation, So like

733
00:38:45,360 --> 00:38:48,360
I I that that is part of the reason it's

734
00:38:48,440 --> 00:38:52,960
different than the Boston situation, because they don't have an

735
00:38:52,960 --> 00:38:56,599
Embid that like is kind of a lynchpin of the

736
00:38:56,599 --> 00:38:58,880
whole deal that's gonna play a third of the season

737
00:38:58,960 --> 00:39:00,960
or whatever it ends up being. Right, So, so like

738
00:39:01,599 --> 00:39:04,119
that that that was the critical failing of them be

739
00:39:04,320 --> 00:39:06,800
George Perring is like, both of these guys just couldn't play.

740
00:39:07,199 --> 00:39:16,039
So getting someone who is substantially more available just that's

741
00:39:16,239 --> 00:39:18,920
that means more in Philadelphia than it did in Boston.

742
00:39:20,599 --> 00:39:23,559
Speaker 1: I'm just laughing. Big Xantina is like crashing out in

743
00:39:23,599 --> 00:39:25,960
the chat right now. I don't know, were you here

744
00:39:26,079 --> 00:39:29,119
saying that Jalen Brown was a net negative like a

745
00:39:29,119 --> 00:39:32,599
few months I just don't. I didn't hear this discussion

746
00:39:32,599 --> 00:39:35,679
about Jalleen Brown being a terrible player a few months ago,

747
00:39:35,719 --> 00:39:37,320
and so I'm just not But yes, Jalen Brown is

748
00:39:37,360 --> 00:39:39,880
valuable to the Sixers Paul. He's played in a hundred

749
00:39:39,920 --> 00:39:42,280
more regular season games in Paul, Georgia over the past decade.

750
00:39:42,320 --> 00:39:45,880
He is valuable to the Sixers if he I'll I

751
00:39:45,960 --> 00:39:47,840
don't know what needs to happen for this trade not

752
00:39:47,920 --> 00:39:50,280
to work out for the Sixers. I don't like. I

753
00:39:50,360 --> 00:39:53,719
just I feel like you've increased your your postseason equity

754
00:39:53,800 --> 00:39:55,199
quite a bit. Like he would need to come in

755
00:39:55,239 --> 00:40:00,880
and just ruin vj Edgecomb and Tyrese MAXI like, I don't,

756
00:40:01,159 --> 00:40:02,360
but he would he would?

757
00:40:02,400 --> 00:40:05,719
Speaker 2: He well, just I mean specifics aside for this to

758
00:40:05,760 --> 00:40:07,559
not work out for the sixers, Brown would have to

759
00:40:07,679 --> 00:40:10,519
Brown's value would have to continue to decline, and you're

760
00:40:10,559 --> 00:40:12,159
in a situation where, oh my god, we have to

761
00:40:12,199 --> 00:40:14,800
attach something to move him. I just we're kind of

762
00:40:14,840 --> 00:40:15,639
a long way from that.

763
00:40:15,920 --> 00:40:21,679
Speaker 1: I think I am concerned a little bit about their shooting.

764
00:40:22,719 --> 00:40:25,199
Dan Fredy Simon signing certainly helps. But which is the

765
00:40:25,239 --> 00:40:30,800
other thing, which is I understand the small non point guard,

766
00:40:30,880 --> 00:40:33,639
like just pure two guard, but this is someone who's

767
00:40:33,679 --> 00:40:36,800
just consistently rated in the ninetieth percentile of catch and

768
00:40:36,800 --> 00:40:39,519
shoot three point making and pull up three point shot making, yep,

769
00:40:40,000 --> 00:40:43,679
And he got less than Dean Wade, and.

770
00:40:43,599 --> 00:40:46,679
Speaker 2: I also would less than Calling Sexton and the other

771
00:40:46,840 --> 00:40:47,360
The other.

772
00:40:47,199 --> 00:40:51,119
Speaker 1: Thing too, My whole thing is why did he go here?

773
00:40:51,400 --> 00:40:54,800
Because I think he helps them? But like where is

774
00:40:55,840 --> 00:40:58,239
like where are his minutes? Because he's not closing for them?

775
00:40:59,199 --> 00:41:03,480
Speaker 2: No, I mean like Dallas he I mean I might

776
00:41:03,519 --> 00:41:05,000
pick him for six Manut of the Year right now

777
00:41:05,239 --> 00:41:06,559
because I think he's going to play a ton and

778
00:41:06,559 --> 00:41:09,079
he's getting the perfect role now that we've wanted Simons

779
00:41:09,119 --> 00:41:11,320
to be a high scoring six man for his entire career.

780
00:41:11,480 --> 00:41:13,559
Like that's that's what even in Portland I was like,

781
00:41:13,599 --> 00:41:15,760
that kind of feels like what he should be this

782
00:41:15,840 --> 00:41:17,440
is this is a great spot for him. I can't

783
00:41:17,480 --> 00:41:21,400
explain why. I don't know where was Detroit? Where was

784
00:41:21,559 --> 00:41:23,599
where was if this is all at costs? Where were

785
00:41:23,599 --> 00:41:25,440
like a million teams that just need a guy to

786
00:41:25,440 --> 00:41:26,199
come in and gun.

787
00:41:27,000 --> 00:41:29,519
Speaker 1: Maybe he was waiting because he thought the market would

788
00:41:29,519 --> 00:41:31,599
be better for him. But I don't like even Chicago

789
00:41:31,679 --> 00:41:33,280
got Norman Powell. I think I was like a grab.

790
00:41:33,400 --> 00:41:36,239
I'd probably rather just you have Averony Simon's for two

791
00:41:36,280 --> 00:41:39,280
years making half that like what Palell is making next season.

792
00:41:39,320 --> 00:41:41,239
Speaker 2: I like the Norman Powell deal for the for the Bulls.

793
00:41:41,239 --> 00:41:43,280
We should we move on. We did forty minutes on

794
00:41:43,280 --> 00:41:45,199
one trade. There's been some I mean.

795
00:41:45,360 --> 00:41:47,440
Speaker 1: It was a big trade. It was a big trade.

796
00:41:48,280 --> 00:41:49,400
Where did you want to go next?

797
00:41:49,440 --> 00:41:51,239
Speaker 2: I think we better do the Kessler deal? Right? That's

798
00:41:51,320 --> 00:41:53,480
kind of the other one. That's got some really interesting

799
00:41:53,480 --> 00:41:56,679
talking points here. I can pull up the details there

800
00:41:58,280 --> 00:42:01,320
if I can work the out a bit. So the

801
00:42:01,360 --> 00:42:06,079
Los Angeles Lakers, uh trade, Well, that's the Clippers. That's

802
00:42:06,119 --> 00:42:10,320
like they did. They got Kawhi, So the Lakers get

803
00:42:10,400 --> 00:42:14,599
Walker Kessler. It's it's a sign and trade technically there,

804
00:42:14,719 --> 00:42:16,320
I don't know if there was technically is there an

805
00:42:16,320 --> 00:42:18,519
offer sheet involved here? Is it just the I guess

806
00:42:18,559 --> 00:42:20,519
the Jazz signed him to this and then they traded. Yeah,

807
00:42:20,559 --> 00:42:23,440
and then yeah, four years, one hundred and thirty million

808
00:42:23,480 --> 00:42:26,800
for Walker Kessler traded to the Lakers for two first

809
00:42:27,239 --> 00:42:29,320
and two swaps. And I got to pull up the

810
00:42:29,400 --> 00:42:33,239
Jazz side here just to get the so they were

811
00:42:33,239 --> 00:42:37,599
getting the Lakers sorry, unprotected in thirty one and thirty

812
00:42:37,599 --> 00:42:41,079
three and swaps in twenty eight and thirty and again

813
00:42:41,119 --> 00:42:43,840
that's four years, one hundred and thirty million for Walker Kessler.

814
00:42:46,000 --> 00:42:48,039
Luca Duncic put his thumb on the scale here. Man.

815
00:42:48,119 --> 00:42:50,239
It sure seems like this he you know, and I

816
00:42:50,320 --> 00:42:53,199
think it was reported that Doncic forever has been telling

817
00:42:53,239 --> 00:42:55,000
the Lakers we need an a list. I want an

818
00:42:55,039 --> 00:42:58,800
a list. Center opinion is.

819
00:42:58,760 --> 00:43:02,639
Speaker 1: That we view Walker Kessler is this incredible vertical threat.

820
00:43:02,719 --> 00:43:05,840
Speaker 2: He's tall, he's tall, he's a good offense. I mean, well,

821
00:43:05,880 --> 00:43:08,440
let's just you got it on the kiro on there, like,

822
00:43:08,480 --> 00:43:11,159
what are the Lakers even doing. They're appeasing Luka Doncic

823
00:43:11,320 --> 00:43:14,440
and they're firing basically all their first round assets and

824
00:43:14,719 --> 00:43:18,400
you know at the Jazz to do that. Let me

825
00:43:18,400 --> 00:43:24,400
ask you two part question. If you were just trying

826
00:43:24,440 --> 00:43:27,079
to sign Walker Kessler, would you pay him one hundred

827
00:43:27,079 --> 00:43:28,960
and thirty million dollars over four years?

828
00:43:29,639 --> 00:43:31,119
Speaker 1: I consider it okay?

829
00:43:32,000 --> 00:43:34,559
Speaker 2: Would you trade two first and two swaps? Which is

830
00:43:35,880 --> 00:43:38,039
that's where we get into it, right, Like that's the

831
00:43:38,119 --> 00:43:38,800
issue this.

832
00:43:38,719 --> 00:43:41,000
Speaker 1: Is I don't I don't understand. I think it was

833
00:43:41,039 --> 00:43:42,519
a Nate Duncan you were missing sing it might have

834
00:43:42,519 --> 00:43:45,079
brought up this point. What if you just threw the

835
00:43:45,119 --> 00:43:48,400
max offer sheet at Walker Kestler four years and one

836
00:43:48,519 --> 00:43:51,000
seventy seven whatever it ended up being with the adjusted cap.

837
00:43:52,559 --> 00:43:54,480
I'd rather have him on the max deal and have

838
00:43:54,559 --> 00:43:57,519
my picks then and the other The other thing that

839
00:43:57,559 --> 00:44:01,800
doesn't make sense is their business afterwards. It's not specific

840
00:44:01,800 --> 00:44:04,199
to this year's playoffs, but how did you watch this

841
00:44:04,280 --> 00:44:06,840
year's playoffs and decide what if? What if we had

842
00:44:06,920 --> 00:44:10,679
no wings? Still? Like, what if we just had no

843
00:44:10,880 --> 00:44:13,480
the Quentin Grime signing, I guess is fine. My contract

844
00:44:13,480 --> 00:44:17,239
is a little higher than I thought. I really loves Mamu,

845
00:44:17,679 --> 00:44:20,760
but now I'm in a position that's a horrible contract.

846
00:44:20,960 --> 00:44:23,320
Speaker 2: That is so well, yeah, if it's horrible, But I

847
00:44:23,360 --> 00:44:26,400
do think, like what was wrong with ru Hachimura? Like why,

848
00:44:26,599 --> 00:44:30,159
I mean, couldn't you clearly his market's not real, not

849
00:44:30,159 --> 00:44:33,199
exactly frothing right now? You couldn't have brought him back

850
00:44:33,239 --> 00:44:34,480
for less and for shorter.

851
00:44:35,079 --> 00:44:37,280
Speaker 1: I don't understand the need for Collin Sexton. I would

852
00:44:37,280 --> 00:44:39,519
have brought back Marcus Smart instead.

853
00:44:40,000 --> 00:44:43,719
Speaker 2: I think Colin Sexton's a minimum player. I like that that.

854
00:44:43,920 --> 00:44:46,079
I mean, I know it's small potatoes because it's two years,

855
00:44:46,119 --> 00:44:48,360
it's nineteen million, it's just the room exception. But like

856
00:44:49,800 --> 00:44:52,719
I would have I there's so many guards I would

857
00:44:52,760 --> 00:44:55,480
have rather had for over him, especially at that number.

858
00:44:55,519 --> 00:44:57,679
Like you throw Simon's in there? Why not you want

859
00:44:57,679 --> 00:44:59,599
to save seven million dollars over two years? I think

860
00:44:59,599 --> 00:45:01,960
I'm forty. Simon's a better player than Colin Sexton.

861
00:45:02,880 --> 00:45:05,039
Speaker 1: He's just you're not You're not wrong. He's a better

862
00:45:05,079 --> 00:45:07,480
passer than Colin Sexton. Sexton is probably a little bit

863
00:45:07,480 --> 00:45:10,119
better of a defender and driver, but he's amazed. Simon's

864
00:45:10,119 --> 00:45:10,800
a better shooter.

865
00:45:11,599 --> 00:45:14,199
Speaker 2: Yeah, Sexton's not a good pat. It's just whatever, Uh

866
00:45:14,360 --> 00:45:18,320
I no, I I well, okay, let's play the same game,

867
00:45:18,360 --> 00:45:21,320
because it's pretty clear we think this is uh, this

868
00:45:21,480 --> 00:45:24,400
is starting with the Kessler. I don't I don't want

869
00:45:24,400 --> 00:45:25,719
to lump the other ones in there. We didn't even

870
00:45:25,719 --> 00:45:28,320
talk about Austin Reeves got the four year max because

871
00:45:28,320 --> 00:45:30,559
it seemed like the Lakers were scared into having to

872
00:45:30,559 --> 00:45:31,320
give him that much.

873
00:45:31,559 --> 00:45:34,159
Speaker 1: Apparently it seems like the pistons of the nets were lurking.

874
00:45:34,360 --> 00:45:37,519
How did you not I understand that maybe throwing off

875
00:45:37,519 --> 00:45:40,480
some of your calculations, but how how are you not

876
00:45:40,639 --> 00:45:44,079
planning around the idea that someone who was tracking towards

877
00:45:44,119 --> 00:45:47,320
all NBA consideration before he got injured might get a

878
00:45:47,360 --> 00:45:51,639
max offer sheet. So I'm not receptive to the argument that, well,

879
00:45:51,679 --> 00:45:53,679
they were just kind of floored that theay to pay

880
00:45:53,679 --> 00:45:56,239
Austin Reeves the max and they were scrambling after no.

881
00:45:56,360 --> 00:46:01,280
Speaker 2: Like, yeah, so let's play the same game, if you. So,

882
00:46:01,320 --> 00:46:03,360
we tried to make sense of the Boston side of

883
00:46:03,360 --> 00:46:06,639
the Brown trade, Uh, can we do that here with

884
00:46:06,639 --> 00:46:09,519
with the Lakers. Let's say just start with Kessler. Is

885
00:46:09,519 --> 00:46:11,840
is it as simple as saying you have committed to

886
00:46:11,880 --> 00:46:14,920
building this team around Luka Doncic. I think it's very

887
00:46:14,920 --> 00:46:17,199
fair to say that is the reason that Lebron James

888
00:46:17,239 --> 00:46:18,719
is not going to be on the Lakers next year

889
00:46:18,840 --> 00:46:21,960
is you've you've made a clear pivot. You've decided you

890
00:46:21,960 --> 00:46:25,480
are not prioritizing him that was obvious last year at

891
00:46:25,480 --> 00:46:28,800
this time. Is it as simple as saying, Luca wanted

892
00:46:28,800 --> 00:46:31,320
this to happen, and so you just had to do it.

893
00:46:31,360 --> 00:46:34,599
And it's not like there's a choice where you go

894
00:46:34,719 --> 00:46:38,559
sign Mitchell Robinson to an inflated deal or Robert Williams

895
00:46:38,599 --> 00:46:41,599
a third and Luca is happy about it? Like is

896
00:46:42,000 --> 00:46:44,760
that a Is that a persuasive argument to you for

897
00:46:44,920 --> 00:46:46,639
defending the Lakers decision here?

898
00:46:47,920 --> 00:46:53,360
Speaker 1: No, because wouldn't If you don't you need to surround

899
00:46:53,440 --> 00:46:57,519
him with like athleticism and good defenders, and they've gone

900
00:46:57,599 --> 00:47:01,239
and done. I would argue the I mean, Walker Castler

901
00:47:01,280 --> 00:47:04,440
is a fantastic defender, but haven't they basically not checked

902
00:47:05,039 --> 00:47:07,159
enough of those boxes when you're looking at the personnel

903
00:47:07,159 --> 00:47:09,920
they went out and signed. I'm even laughing because in

904
00:47:09,960 --> 00:47:11,880
the chat, why so I underscore one War one saying

905
00:47:11,880 --> 00:47:13,800
they're so lucky they get bailed out in free agency

906
00:47:13,800 --> 00:47:16,280
because they're the biggest market in the NBA. Yeah, and

907
00:47:16,320 --> 00:47:19,239
they still fucked up free agency this year. It's almost impressive.

908
00:47:19,800 --> 00:47:24,119
Speaker 2: Yeah, I as I was just throwing those names out there.

909
00:47:24,280 --> 00:47:28,039
If you like, you would definitely be better off with

910
00:47:28,159 --> 00:47:31,400
Robert Williams the third and Mitchell Robinson and all those picks,

911
00:47:31,519 --> 00:47:33,719
then you would be with Walker Kessler like that to

912
00:47:33,800 --> 00:47:38,280
me is not debatable. But again it just seems like

913
00:47:38,360 --> 00:47:42,519
Lucas said, Walk Kessler or Durham make it happen, and

914
00:47:42,519 --> 00:47:45,840
and they did it right, like, because from an asset

915
00:47:45,880 --> 00:47:51,440
management perspective, this is insane given them herds that were available, right,

916
00:47:51,639 --> 00:47:52,840
Is that that's not too strong?

917
00:47:52,960 --> 00:47:53,199
Speaker 1: Is it?

918
00:47:53,280 --> 00:47:55,320
Speaker 2: Like you could have? So I know, I'm just using

919
00:47:55,360 --> 00:47:57,679
Williams and Robinson and they come with plenty of questions,

920
00:47:57,679 --> 00:48:00,599
but like, those dudes together would have lost you way

921
00:48:00,639 --> 00:48:01,880
less than Kessler per year.

922
00:48:02,480 --> 00:48:06,800
Speaker 1: Serious question. Couldn't you've just gotten like Nemi As Kita

923
00:48:06,920 --> 00:48:08,360
and Jalen Brown for less?

924
00:48:11,840 --> 00:48:14,880
Speaker 2: It's yeah, okay, So now what's happening is as we

925
00:48:14,920 --> 00:48:17,199
talked about the Celtics side, I started to see it

926
00:48:17,199 --> 00:48:19,840
more clearly as like, I guess I can understand the trading.

927
00:48:20,280 --> 00:48:23,119
Talking about the Lakers side of this, it makes even

928
00:48:23,199 --> 00:48:25,199
less sense to me now than it did. Initially, I

929
00:48:25,239 --> 00:48:26,800
was I was hoping you could give me a good

930
00:48:27,000 --> 00:48:29,400
defense of the Lakers moves. But I don't see, well,

931
00:48:29,440 --> 00:48:29,920
you're you.

932
00:48:31,000 --> 00:48:33,599
Speaker 1: I think you provided the defense. It's just not sufficient

933
00:48:34,159 --> 00:48:37,559
if Luca wanted it. Okay, great, At this rate, Luca's

934
00:48:37,559 --> 00:48:39,880
going to be demanding a trade by twenty twenty eight

935
00:48:40,360 --> 00:48:43,519
with the team that you've assembled around him, and I

936
00:48:44,039 --> 00:48:47,599
you're right, because I think the argument was Mitchell Robinson

937
00:48:48,320 --> 00:48:50,320
Robert Williams aren't going to be healthy enough to be

938
00:48:50,400 --> 00:48:54,159
a starter. I mean, Walker Casher's been dealing with shoulder

939
00:48:54,199 --> 00:49:00,719
issues for years, so we're just going to assume that he's.

940
00:48:58,719 --> 00:49:01,719
Speaker 2: Just get two cracks at it with Williams and Robinson

941
00:49:02,000 --> 00:49:05,320
or whoever Kada and And I guess Kada wasn't gonna

942
00:49:05,320 --> 00:49:07,320
be available. Technically you could have traded for him, But like,

943
00:49:09,599 --> 00:49:12,440
are the Lakers better than they were last year?

944
00:49:14,480 --> 00:49:17,880
Speaker 1: This feels lateral. Last year you could have said, looking

945
00:49:17,880 --> 00:49:19,880
at the landscape, but even before we knew the Spurs.

946
00:49:19,880 --> 00:49:21,559
With the Spurs, I think you could have looked at

947
00:49:21,559 --> 00:49:25,400
the landscape of the West, squinted and said Lakers could

948
00:49:25,400 --> 00:49:27,920
be the third best team. M hmm. If you do

949
00:49:28,039 --> 00:49:31,280
the same now you're gonna come up to the same conclusion.

950
00:49:31,639 --> 00:49:34,039
Third best team has no chance of coming out of.

951
00:49:34,039 --> 00:49:36,320
Speaker 2: The I love that. I think although you're so right,

952
00:49:36,760 --> 00:49:40,039
but in both cases you're squinting, Like even even that

953
00:49:40,119 --> 00:49:44,480
upside that little Smith. Yeah, that's a great call, right,

954
00:49:44,800 --> 00:49:46,599
I think it. I think the best thing you can

955
00:49:46,639 --> 00:49:50,599
say is that's is it's if it's not purely lateral.

956
00:49:50,920 --> 00:49:54,519
If if they're marginally better, it's not significant.

957
00:49:54,880 --> 00:49:56,519
Speaker 1: If their perimeter d got worse.

958
00:49:57,159 --> 00:50:00,039
Speaker 2: Yeah, right, well without Smart, I mean Smart was like

959
00:50:00,119 --> 00:50:03,440
the only dude that they had in the playoffs, right, Like,

960
00:50:03,599 --> 00:50:05,480
it's it's man, I guess.

961
00:50:06,559 --> 00:50:09,679
Speaker 1: Who is their best on ball perimeter defender right now?

962
00:50:09,920 --> 00:50:15,039
Speaker 2: Is Rhymes Crimes? Who else? Is it? La Ravia? If

963
00:50:15,039 --> 00:50:16,920
you want him to wait? Is he even back?

964
00:50:17,000 --> 00:50:20,000
Speaker 1: Yeah, he couldn't play in the playoffs. Just well, he's

965
00:50:20,039 --> 00:50:21,719
kind of a wing, so probably he won't be back.

966
00:50:21,760 --> 00:50:23,159
They're definitely getting rood of him.

967
00:50:24,039 --> 00:50:27,519
Speaker 2: It's lateral, maybe marginally better, but not in a way

968
00:50:27,519 --> 00:50:31,559
that actually matters, Right, they didn't. They gave up everything

969
00:50:32,599 --> 00:50:34,679
to and maybe be slightly better.

970
00:50:34,760 --> 00:50:38,159
Speaker 1: Which, by the way, the results don't necessarily excuse the

971
00:50:38,199 --> 00:50:41,280
process unless the results are made the Finals, probably, But

972
00:50:42,840 --> 00:50:45,480
first argument's sake, let's get away from the process, which

973
00:50:45,480 --> 00:50:50,400
you and I are struggling to even begin to justify

974
00:50:50,840 --> 00:50:54,440
what happens that makes this offseason worth it? How good

975
00:50:54,440 --> 00:50:57,159
does is it? Purely on how good does Walker Kessler

976
00:50:57,800 --> 00:51:01,159
need to be? Is it if you finish third in

977
00:51:01,239 --> 00:51:03,039
the West? Is that all right? Like? Yeah, we we

978
00:51:03,079 --> 00:51:04,599
finished third in the West and look at like some

979
00:51:04,679 --> 00:51:07,760
of the like Minnesota was there and the Rockets and

980
00:51:07,760 --> 00:51:10,480
the Nuggets are still hanging around. I don't know what

981
00:51:10,559 --> 00:51:14,719
needs like realistically, because this team is not winning the title,

982
00:51:14,960 --> 00:51:17,039
it is not winning the Western Conference. It's it's just

983
00:51:17,079 --> 00:51:20,719
it's not happening. What or maybe it's better to ask

984
00:51:20,760 --> 00:51:23,280
how good does Walker Kessler need to be? Because the

985
00:51:23,320 --> 00:51:25,599
other moves you cannot love them, and none of them

986
00:51:25,639 --> 00:51:30,239
are potentially damning. I would say so Walker Kesler move

987
00:51:30,280 --> 00:51:33,119
has the potential to be damning just because of the

988
00:51:33,239 --> 00:51:37,239
asset outlay. How good does Walker Kesler need to be

989
00:51:38,239 --> 00:51:39,480
for him to be worth this?

990
00:51:40,119 --> 00:51:43,159
Speaker 2: We need he needs to be a name that we

991
00:51:43,280 --> 00:51:46,320
mentioned every single time we're talking about defensive player of

992
00:51:46,320 --> 00:51:49,679
the Year, Like I've already lost then this is right

993
00:51:49,800 --> 00:51:51,960
because it's gonna be Wemby obviously if he's healthy, but

994
00:51:52,039 --> 00:51:55,880
like Kessler needs to be someone that is is a

995
00:51:55,920 --> 00:52:00,239
first team all defense type of guy, which I think

996
00:52:00,840 --> 00:52:04,039
I think he's shown that he can be that. But

997
00:52:05,880 --> 00:52:10,159
what's that? Does that matter if the rest I guess

998
00:52:10,239 --> 00:52:12,320
for that to happen, the Lakers defense will have to

999
00:52:12,360 --> 00:52:16,039
be pretty good, like very good. Which maybe that's where

1000
00:52:16,079 --> 00:52:18,920
this conversation actually doesn't because even if he's great on

1001
00:52:18,920 --> 00:52:21,719
his own, the rest of this defense is just so bad.

1002
00:52:22,119 --> 00:52:24,559
I well, okay, let's justify it for the for the

1003
00:52:24,599 --> 00:52:27,239
Lakers a little bit. JJ Reddick has managed to figure

1004
00:52:27,239 --> 00:52:29,280
out how to get competent defense on the floor for

1005
00:52:29,320 --> 00:52:32,119
long stretches with bad personnel, Like that's something that has

1006
00:52:32,199 --> 00:52:36,519
kind of defined his tenure. So if anybody's gonna sort

1007
00:52:36,559 --> 00:52:39,079
this out and make the Lakers a functional defense with

1008
00:52:39,159 --> 00:52:42,440
really like one good defender in a big role, it

1009
00:52:42,559 --> 00:52:47,639
might be him. Man, I didn't think I was gonna

1010
00:52:47,679 --> 00:52:49,880
I was gonna slide so far towards the negative. I

1011
00:52:49,920 --> 00:52:52,880
was a little negative, but I just I'm not seeing

1012
00:52:52,920 --> 00:52:54,519
it here. I'm not seeing it here.

1013
00:52:54,559 --> 00:52:58,280
Speaker 1: I really the way you phrased that, just maybe they

1014
00:52:58,320 --> 00:52:59,840
have one good defender and they can have.

1015
00:53:02,840 --> 00:53:03,679
Speaker 2: That's what it would take.

1016
00:53:04,679 --> 00:53:09,079
Speaker 1: I guess the other thing too, that's that's really bothering me.

1017
00:53:09,599 --> 00:53:12,159
I'm sure you've seen. So now they're in the we're

1018
00:53:12,199 --> 00:53:15,519
mentioning names like Yonas Valentune isn't Andre Drummond is what

1019
00:53:15,559 --> 00:53:18,960
they're focusing on after trading Ayton, and it's to get

1020
00:53:18,960 --> 00:53:23,079
the backup big for Walker Kessler. I would be prepared

1021
00:53:23,119 --> 00:53:26,920
to make the case that you're downgrading your defense even

1022
00:53:27,000 --> 00:53:29,440
further by having one of those. I know, Aighton's up

1023
00:53:29,480 --> 00:53:32,000
and down, but Aiden is more mobile than either of

1024
00:53:32,039 --> 00:53:35,239
those guys. The other thing they've been linked to, I

1025
00:53:35,280 --> 00:53:37,960
don't know if you've seen. There's a chance they could still.

1026
00:53:38,320 --> 00:53:40,639
So now they have these seconds, they save two point

1027
00:53:40,719 --> 00:53:43,480
one million dollars, and they have their twenty thirty two swop.

1028
00:53:43,599 --> 00:53:45,920
If that can be used to somehow dump a Jared

1029
00:53:46,000 --> 00:53:48,400
Vanderbilt or save money they're looking at, Oh maybe we

1030
00:53:48,440 --> 00:53:51,079
could bring Rui back, or we can bring in Jonathan

1031
00:53:51,159 --> 00:53:56,159
KAMINGA what what are we doing here? Like no like

1032
00:53:56,679 --> 00:53:59,719
ghost sign Zaiir Williams, go sign mattist Sibel, just anyone

1033
00:53:59,760 --> 00:54:03,679
who's pure defense. I someone else also made the point

1034
00:54:03,760 --> 00:54:06,360
which Ruy's a great example of this. Ruey was a

1035
00:54:07,280 --> 00:54:09,800
quality shot maker coming into LA, but he's been like

1036
00:54:09,880 --> 00:54:12,840
the best, one of the best three point shooters since.

1037
00:54:13,039 --> 00:54:15,400
It's because he got to play with Lebron and then

1038
00:54:15,480 --> 00:54:19,360
Luca and Austin Reeves as well. I think you could argue, again,

1039
00:54:19,400 --> 00:54:21,440
this isn't my argument. I forget where I heard it

1040
00:54:21,559 --> 00:54:25,320
or read it. Matisse Thibel just hanging out in the corners,

1041
00:54:25,400 --> 00:54:27,760
Zeiya Williams just hanging out in the corners might just

1042
00:54:27,800 --> 00:54:29,880
be awesome three point shooters and they're gonna give you

1043
00:54:29,880 --> 00:54:33,039
more on defense. Maybe you could say the same about

1044
00:54:33,119 --> 00:54:35,519
Jonathan Kaminga. But what do we know about Jonathan Kamingo. Oh,

1045
00:54:35,559 --> 00:54:38,119
he's not gonna defend and he's not gonna he's not

1046
00:54:38,199 --> 00:54:40,320
gonna space. That's not what he wants to do.

1047
00:54:40,719 --> 00:54:44,480
Speaker 2: The idea of the Lakers bringing in Kaminga with with

1048
00:54:44,480 --> 00:54:50,320
with his job being defend, rebound cut and them believing

1049
00:54:50,639 --> 00:54:52,800
in the wake of all that's happened throughout his career

1050
00:54:52,840 --> 00:54:56,199
that he's gonna be happy with that, that is the

1051
00:54:56,239 --> 00:55:00,400
funniest thing that could ever ever happen this offseason, because

1052
00:55:00,880 --> 00:55:03,480
those are exactly the things the Warriors were begging him

1053
00:55:03,480 --> 00:55:05,159
to do for his whole career, and he just will

1054
00:55:05,199 --> 00:55:08,000
not do them. He can do them, but he will not.

1055
00:55:08,199 --> 00:55:10,159
He will not do them. It's not a it's not

1056
00:55:10,360 --> 00:55:12,559
it's not a can't. It's a won't. And maybe some

1057
00:55:12,679 --> 00:55:15,880
don't know how, but it's not a can't. That's like

1058
00:55:16,480 --> 00:55:21,199
that would be. It's just hilarious and I frankly want

1059
00:55:21,239 --> 00:55:22,599
to see it. I want to see it happen.

1060
00:55:23,119 --> 00:55:27,119
Speaker 1: I want to ask you a question, now, what is

1061
00:55:27,239 --> 00:55:31,480
Luka Doncic? So when next season is twenty six, twenty seven,

1062
00:55:32,039 --> 00:55:35,000
then twenty seven to twenty eight, is Lukadancic still on

1063
00:55:35,039 --> 00:55:37,679
the Lakers after the twenty seven to twenty eight season.

1064
00:55:39,280 --> 00:55:41,280
Speaker 2: I mean, he didn't want to leave Dallas. I'm gonna

1065
00:55:41,280 --> 00:55:43,920
say yes, but just that's because he just doesn't seem

1066
00:55:43,960 --> 00:55:47,360
like someone that agitates to change. Like it seemed like

1067
00:55:47,400 --> 00:55:49,960
the Dallas move really rocked him and he wanted to

1068
00:55:49,960 --> 00:55:51,559
be there and they didn't want him, and that's why

1069
00:55:51,599 --> 00:55:56,000
it happened. But I think he will be But I

1070
00:55:56,039 --> 00:55:59,159
will acknowledge what you're saying here, which is that the

1071
00:55:59,239 --> 00:56:02,199
Lakers really this is it, This was the this this

1072
00:56:02,440 --> 00:56:06,320
was the big move off season. Uh and it's not

1073
00:56:06,440 --> 00:56:10,039
going to get Luca where he wants to go. I

1074
00:56:10,079 --> 00:56:12,760
don't think from a from a like a big time

1075
00:56:12,800 --> 00:56:15,599
winning standpoint, we could be I guess we could be wrong.

1076
00:56:15,679 --> 00:56:17,880
This could be this offense could be the best in

1077
00:56:17,920 --> 00:56:20,159
the league or something like. Maybe maybe that's the way

1078
00:56:20,199 --> 00:56:22,400
it happens. But even that's a huge stretch.

1079
00:56:22,719 --> 00:56:25,079
Speaker 1: What is the de I guess if they have a

1080
00:56:26,760 --> 00:56:30,960
what's their defensive ceiling relative the personnel they have right now?

1081
00:56:31,519 --> 00:56:35,679
Is it? Could they be top twelve? Sure, Walker Kessel's

1082
00:56:35,679 --> 00:56:37,360
playing thirty five minutes a game. I guess you get

1083
00:56:37,400 --> 00:56:39,679
some opponent three point shooting luck, that's the right.

1084
00:56:39,719 --> 00:56:41,599
Speaker 2: What I feel more comfortable with is saying they could

1085
00:56:41,599 --> 00:56:45,519
be a top ten defense in Kessler's minutes. But I

1086
00:56:45,679 --> 00:56:47,719
would''m not prepared to say what it looks like without

1087
00:56:47,760 --> 00:56:50,519
it's it'll be awful without him. I like, right, I

1088
00:56:50,559 --> 00:56:53,039
just don't know how you're there's no way there better

1089
00:56:53,079 --> 00:56:54,119
than average without him.

1090
00:56:54,159 --> 00:56:57,880
Speaker 1: I just like, and that's very generous. I think, can

1091
00:56:57,920 --> 00:56:59,920
we talk about this from the jazz is perspec?

1092
00:57:00,599 --> 00:57:02,199
Speaker 2: Yeah, it's crazy?

1093
00:57:03,639 --> 00:57:06,920
Speaker 1: What else? I do agree that it's they got good

1094
00:57:07,039 --> 00:57:10,280
value for Walker Kessler, But now you have Jackson Hayes

1095
00:57:10,280 --> 00:57:12,719
and use of Nurkic and the idea of the Jaron

1096
00:57:12,760 --> 00:57:15,760
Jackson Junior at the five minutes, which I would say

1097
00:57:16,639 --> 00:57:19,039
they're not Brittain. No breaking case of emergency is a

1098
00:57:19,079 --> 00:57:20,920
bridge too far. But that's something you go to as

1099
00:57:20,920 --> 00:57:24,000
a closing lineup, not as you're just default. That's our

1100
00:57:24,039 --> 00:57:25,920
base system.

1101
00:57:26,320 --> 00:57:28,840
Speaker 2: It's there is an element of this is pretty disappointing

1102
00:57:28,840 --> 00:57:31,159
for the Jazz because I do think Kesler was part

1103
00:57:31,159 --> 00:57:33,320
of the plan, like it was always.

1104
00:57:33,639 --> 00:57:35,440
Speaker 1: By the way, I was prepared to predict they were

1105
00:57:35,480 --> 00:57:38,079
gonna win fifty games next year when I thought Kessler

1106
00:57:38,199 --> 00:57:40,000
was coming back. I'm not going to get there now

1107
00:57:40,000 --> 00:57:42,800
because I don't know what the defensive I don't know

1108
00:57:42,800 --> 00:57:44,079
what their defensive baseline is.

1109
00:57:44,280 --> 00:57:47,920
Speaker 2: He was pretty clearly part of the plan, like him, Jackson, Markanen,

1110
00:57:48,039 --> 00:57:50,800
and then you have George and maybe it's Bailey, maybe

1111
00:57:50,800 --> 00:57:55,360
it's whoever else, like Kesler was the defensive plan, which

1112
00:57:55,360 --> 00:57:59,000
again which he is in LA now too, but it

1113
00:57:59,440 --> 00:58:03,679
is I am imagine this was not the Jazz's intention.

1114
00:58:03,840 --> 00:58:07,199
They really, I think wanted to keep him. But we've

1115
00:58:07,239 --> 00:58:09,199
been saying this a lot lately. This is just an

1116
00:58:09,199 --> 00:58:11,760
offer you have to accept, like you just have to

1117
00:58:11,800 --> 00:58:15,960
take four first round assets for for Kessler, especially if

1118
00:58:16,400 --> 00:58:20,239
keeping him was gonna mean paying him what he wanted.

1119
00:58:21,239 --> 00:58:23,360
And I think like now, normally you'd say, well, if

1120
00:58:23,360 --> 00:58:26,559
he's worth four first round assets on the market, why

1121
00:58:26,559 --> 00:58:29,239
don't you just sign him to the max or whatever

1122
00:58:29,559 --> 00:58:31,599
or match whatever the Lakers pay him and then trade

1123
00:58:31,639 --> 00:58:34,280
him later. I think that's because only the Lakers were

1124
00:58:34,280 --> 00:58:36,519
giving up four first round assets for Walker Kessler. I

1125
00:58:36,519 --> 00:58:38,920
don't think that that's not his market value. That's right,

1126
00:58:38,960 --> 00:58:41,400
that's what they valued him at. But that was the

1127
00:58:41,400 --> 00:58:44,199
only place you're ever gonna get four first for Walker Kessler.

1128
00:58:44,280 --> 00:58:48,480
Speaker 1: So you say, yes, yeah, But also, what were you

1129
00:58:48,840 --> 00:58:51,280
if you're the Jazz, what would you you would have

1130
00:58:51,280 --> 00:58:55,119
been willing to accept this for less? Right? I would

1131
00:58:55,119 --> 00:58:57,079
love to know how this good did the LA Lakers?

1132
00:58:57,079 --> 00:58:58,639
Speaker 2: Do you think they should have told the Lakers that.

1133
00:58:58,880 --> 00:59:01,320
It's like, you guys really don't to the fourth cook

1134
00:59:01,440 --> 00:59:02,440
is excessive and.

1135
00:59:02,400 --> 00:59:04,360
Speaker 1: You didn't even get off like you couldn't get off

1136
00:59:04,400 --> 00:59:07,159
Jared Vanderbilt's deal as part of it. That's the other thing.

1137
00:59:07,159 --> 00:59:09,199
It's like you couldn't even get like a minor victory

1138
00:59:09,280 --> 00:59:11,719
like that. I my guest would be the Lakers came

1139
00:59:11,719 --> 00:59:15,920
in with two firsts and they talked in the swaps

1140
00:59:16,000 --> 00:59:19,480
or two first and because insane, you had to make

1141
00:59:19,519 --> 00:59:21,199
this trade as the Jazz. But it is kind of

1142
00:59:21,199 --> 00:59:24,280
a bummer. I wanted to see the marketing, uh Kessler,

1143
00:59:24,760 --> 00:59:29,119
Jared Jackson junior front court. I'm also wondering did they

1144
00:59:29,159 --> 00:59:33,480
get a little pocket shy because Okay, you're paying Kessler,

1145
00:59:33,880 --> 00:59:37,079
Triple J and Larry Markin already on these deals, and

1146
00:59:37,119 --> 00:59:40,159
now you have Keante George's extension coming up, which would

1147
00:59:40,239 --> 00:59:44,719
kick in in twenty twenty seven. They they play fundamentally

1148
00:59:44,800 --> 00:59:47,400
different positions, like don't you can't get any different than

1149
00:59:47,440 --> 00:59:49,960
your point guard and your center. Essentially, do you think

1150
00:59:49,960 --> 00:59:53,079
this makes it more likely though, that now Keyante George

1151
00:59:53,119 --> 00:59:55,920
gets an extension or they're more comfortable investing in him,

1152
00:59:55,960 --> 00:59:58,440
or do you just view this as such a can't

1153
00:59:58,480 --> 00:59:59,440
miss opportunity.

1154
01:00:00,480 --> 01:00:03,840
Speaker 2: That doesn't mean ultimately all all of that, but ultimately

1155
01:00:03,880 --> 01:00:07,440
the again, I'll see you. You can't turn this down

1156
01:00:07,679 --> 01:00:10,440
if you're the Jazz under the circumstances, you just can't.

1157
01:00:11,079 --> 01:00:14,800
You can't walk away from this return. It does make it, It

1158
01:00:14,760 --> 01:00:16,599
does make it more likely that they're gonna invest in

1159
01:00:16,639 --> 01:00:18,960
George though, just because there's more to invest. You didn't

1160
01:00:18,960 --> 01:00:21,000
burn a dollar on the on this trait, you know,

1161
01:00:21,159 --> 01:00:25,599
Like I I think I think whether that means an

1162
01:00:25,599 --> 01:00:28,159
extension is more likely, I don't know, but but now

1163
01:00:28,239 --> 01:00:29,840
it just makes more sense from a I don't know,

1164
01:00:29,840 --> 01:00:32,360
a roster composition standpoint. You got two front court guys

1165
01:00:32,360 --> 01:00:35,000
making a bunch of money, it makes more sense to

1166
01:00:35,000 --> 01:00:37,719
have a backcourt guy, I guess, just objectively making the

1167
01:00:37,760 --> 01:00:42,239
other big salary as opposed to three front court guys. Yeah,

1168
01:00:42,280 --> 01:00:46,000
I don't know. Again, you're never gonna get this kind

1169
01:00:46,000 --> 01:00:48,440
of return for Walker Kessler. I don't think I would

1170
01:00:48,440 --> 01:00:50,719
be shocked, right, Like if he wins Defensive Player of

1171
01:00:50,719 --> 01:00:52,320
the Year. I guess what was the Gobert? Were there

1172
01:00:52,400 --> 01:00:55,119
four first involved in the Gobert deal or five or something?

1173
01:00:55,599 --> 01:00:58,360
Speaker 1: Yeah, but you'd already won defense that he's done.

1174
01:00:58,599 --> 01:01:01,840
Speaker 2: You Bestessler does that unless he builds a track record

1175
01:01:01,880 --> 01:01:05,119
as good as Go Bears, you aren't getting this this.

1176
01:01:05,559 --> 01:01:07,039
It's just like, do you.

1177
01:01:07,119 --> 01:01:09,880
Speaker 1: Think or maybe this was how the Jazz negotiated it,

1178
01:01:09,960 --> 01:01:13,920
but do you think that we're overvaluing those first round picks.

1179
01:01:14,079 --> 01:01:16,480
Now forget about first of all, it will probably be

1180
01:01:16,480 --> 01:01:18,800
in a different lottery system by the time most of

1181
01:01:18,840 --> 01:01:22,360
those things convey. But do you think we're overvaluing them

1182
01:01:22,400 --> 01:01:25,559
because the Lakers do have Luca, Therefore they're just gonna

1183
01:01:25,559 --> 01:01:27,440
always have this higher floor.

1184
01:01:27,960 --> 01:01:31,039
Speaker 2: M there's yeah, No, I mean I think that's fair

1185
01:01:31,119 --> 01:01:34,480
to say just because it's it's less like, well, you

1186
01:01:34,480 --> 01:01:36,920
would say it's less likely for the Lakers to bottom

1187
01:01:36,960 --> 01:01:39,039
out and those picks to be not fully bottom out

1188
01:01:39,079 --> 01:01:40,639
because it's a new lottery system, but to be bad

1189
01:01:40,719 --> 01:01:43,639
enough where those picks are really highly valuable. But we're

1190
01:01:43,639 --> 01:01:45,800
not that far removed from like the Lakers were bad

1191
01:01:45,880 --> 01:01:49,239
enough to pick D'Angelo Russell and Brandon Ingram at the

1192
01:01:49,239 --> 01:01:51,400
top five of the draft and Lonzo Ball and they

1193
01:01:51,400 --> 01:01:53,880
had I mean, they were real bad for a good

1194
01:01:53,920 --> 01:01:58,280
stretch there, pre Lebron and pre ad. So I don't

1195
01:01:58,280 --> 01:02:00,599
think you get to necessarily say that these picks are

1196
01:02:00,639 --> 01:02:04,559
inherently and definitely devalued because it's the Lakers. The Lakers

1197
01:02:04,599 --> 01:02:08,719
have been real bad for a long time recently, so like,

1198
01:02:08,880 --> 01:02:11,960
I don't now they can't do it for me now

1199
01:02:12,000 --> 01:02:15,000
they could comfortably enter the relegation zone in those years.

1200
01:02:15,039 --> 01:02:17,559
Speaker 1: If it still exists by that point, which it may

1201
01:02:17,599 --> 01:02:19,920
be so bad that these picks are less valuable, that's

1202
01:02:19,920 --> 01:02:23,159
one likely I'll call it Maya Kolpa. I thought I

1203
01:02:23,159 --> 01:02:24,599
didn't think the office. I wasn't one of the people

1204
01:02:24,599 --> 01:02:27,280
that thought the off season was gonna stink, but I was.

1205
01:02:27,639 --> 01:02:29,559
I was convinced that we weren't going to see a

1206
01:02:29,599 --> 01:02:33,239
ton of like huge moves. The Giannie is Giannis. You

1207
01:02:33,280 --> 01:02:36,079
just give up because it's Giannie. But these draft picks

1208
01:02:36,119 --> 01:02:41,039
being thrown around for Miles Bridges, Walker Kessler is one

1209
01:02:41,079 --> 01:02:43,039
of them. I was so wrong. I don't know how

1210
01:02:43,119 --> 01:02:44,800
much of that has to do with I haven't read

1211
01:02:44,880 --> 01:02:47,960
enough into the like lottery credit system to where is

1212
01:02:47,960 --> 01:02:50,000
their way to maybe game around that a little bit

1213
01:02:50,000 --> 01:02:53,760
if you think that's where the NBA is headed. I am,

1214
01:02:53,920 --> 01:02:55,960
I'm wrong about a lot of things, but I was, like,

1215
01:02:56,039 --> 01:02:58,239
I this is probably think I've been most wrong about

1216
01:02:58,239 --> 01:02:59,119
it quite some time.

1217
01:02:59,239 --> 01:03:05,880
Speaker 2: I mean, I can't claim to have I can't claim

1218
01:03:05,920 --> 01:03:08,360
to have like saw this coming at all. But what

1219
01:03:08,400 --> 01:03:11,719
I do think from a reactionary standpoint is this is great.

1220
01:03:11,760 --> 01:03:13,719
And do you know why all these picks are flying around.

1221
01:03:13,760 --> 01:03:17,920
I think is because you can't really truly exercise control

1222
01:03:17,960 --> 01:03:20,320
over them by being as bad as possible in tanking

1223
01:03:20,440 --> 01:03:22,519
and getting a great shot at a super high pick.

1224
01:03:22,880 --> 01:03:25,039
So if the median value of a first round pick

1225
01:03:25,079 --> 01:03:28,679
is lower because you can't make sure it's top four

1226
01:03:28,840 --> 01:03:32,480
or whatever, that's a good thing. This is the first

1227
01:03:32,519 --> 01:03:36,719
like positive outcome from the new lottery is that transactions

1228
01:03:36,760 --> 01:03:39,639
are going bonkers because teams don't have the well, we'll

1229
01:03:39,679 --> 01:03:43,000
just keep it in tank like you know, posture anymore.

1230
01:03:43,280 --> 01:03:44,320
I think that's a good thing.

1231
01:03:46,880 --> 01:03:48,480
Speaker 1: You're right, I think that is a good thing. But

1232
01:03:48,519 --> 01:03:50,480
I'm curious to see now if those teams are just

1233
01:03:50,719 --> 01:03:52,760
is there a chance to end up they've set those

1234
01:03:52,800 --> 01:03:55,679
picks on fire. So let's say the relegation going zone

1235
01:03:55,960 --> 01:03:58,679
still exist. Let's use the nets and bulls. The nets

1236
01:03:58,760 --> 01:04:00,679
is an example, because they don't control their pick this year,

1237
01:04:01,400 --> 01:04:02,880
we're gonna get to a point with the amount of

1238
01:04:02,920 --> 01:04:04,679
twenty thirty one and twenty thirty three picks that are

1239
01:04:04,679 --> 01:04:06,159
flowing as there's just gonna be a bunch of teams

1240
01:04:06,159 --> 01:04:08,880
that are eh like, we're not We're not gonna be

1241
01:04:08,920 --> 01:04:10,800
good like we're gonna So I'm inntioned to see if

1242
01:04:10,840 --> 01:04:13,480
there's just the you have to pay the piper at

1243
01:04:13,480 --> 01:04:15,199
some point when it comes to the level of competition.

1244
01:04:15,599 --> 01:04:17,960
What I also don't like this is we're veering very

1245
01:04:18,000 --> 01:04:20,360
far away from the jazz here. But if the Jalen

1246
01:04:20,400 --> 01:04:23,760
Brown and LaMelo Ball stuff, we're a lot of well

1247
01:04:23,760 --> 01:04:26,320
we're worried about their next contracts when they still have

1248
01:04:26,360 --> 01:04:29,199
three years left on their current one, it's gonna create

1249
01:04:29,719 --> 01:04:34,679
this situation of insane roster turnover where I like it

1250
01:04:34,719 --> 01:04:38,039
when teams are able to stay together, like yes, Jalen

1251
01:04:38,039 --> 01:04:40,400
Brown and Jason Tatum, I guess you could argue ran there.

1252
01:04:40,400 --> 01:04:43,400
Of course, there's the hornets were just getting off the

1253
01:04:43,400 --> 01:04:45,679
ground and felt like And so I'm now wondering if

1254
01:04:45,719 --> 01:04:48,519
this is the way teams are thinking about We've yet

1255
01:04:48,559 --> 01:04:51,519
to really see it, because even you can't justify the

1256
01:04:51,559 --> 01:04:54,679
LaMelo Ball and Jalen Brown trades in that way just yet.

1257
01:04:55,159 --> 01:04:56,639
But like, we've yet to see a team try and

1258
01:04:56,679 --> 01:04:59,639
squeeze a player of that caliber. But if if we're

1259
01:04:59,679 --> 01:05:03,760
at the point where they're worried about non top fifteen

1260
01:05:03,760 --> 01:05:07,280
players making anywhere near the max, I think it's going

1261
01:05:07,360 --> 01:05:13,320
to create this weird just like cycle of extra turnover

1262
01:05:13,360 --> 01:05:15,199
more than we're already used to when there's always been

1263
01:05:15,199 --> 01:05:17,760
a lot of player movement, but with kneecapping, a free agency,

1264
01:05:18,039 --> 01:05:20,159
and extension rules, it felt as if a lot of

1265
01:05:20,159 --> 01:05:22,920
stars might be staying put. I'm wondering for the next CBA,

1266
01:05:23,000 --> 01:05:25,800
there's gonna be some type of correction where if a

1267
01:05:25,840 --> 01:05:28,199
players with a team that's with drafted him or been

1268
01:05:28,239 --> 01:05:30,159
their extra years, they're not They're going to count towards

1269
01:05:30,199 --> 01:05:32,719
a smaller percentage of the cap or something. Because I

1270
01:05:32,760 --> 01:05:34,840
don't love the idea of there just being so much

1271
01:05:34,880 --> 01:05:37,400
turnover that teams don't get the chance to stay together.

1272
01:05:37,800 --> 01:05:39,840
Speaker 2: Yeah, I mean, and that was a driving factor and

1273
01:05:39,840 --> 01:05:41,960
I don't know two cbas ago or whatever with the

1274
01:05:42,039 --> 01:05:43,880
like you can offer your own guy a fifth year

1275
01:05:43,920 --> 01:05:45,679
that nobody else can, and you can go high a

1276
01:05:45,760 --> 01:05:48,400
higher percentage of the cap and all that stuff. They're

1277
01:05:48,719 --> 01:05:51,039
the only certainty about any reform is that there's gonna

1278
01:05:51,039 --> 01:05:53,159
be over correct, like it will have gone too far

1279
01:05:53,199 --> 01:05:54,599
in one direction or the other, and you'll have to

1280
01:05:54,639 --> 01:05:57,360
correct for it. That's just kind of priced in. I

1281
01:05:57,400 --> 01:05:59,199
think you're probably right about that. What do you want

1282
01:05:59,199 --> 01:06:01,280
to do and What's what big deal have we not

1283
01:06:01,360 --> 01:06:02,239
talked about? Well?

1284
01:06:02,280 --> 01:06:04,639
Speaker 1: I think this is a big deal. Is Karnthi Town's

1285
01:06:04,639 --> 01:06:09,159
playing forty eight minutes per game next season? Mitchell Robinson gone?

1286
01:06:09,559 --> 01:06:12,679
You know who else is gone? Aaron Hookporty went to

1287
01:06:12,719 --> 01:06:15,719
the seventy six ers. There's your emergency podcast banner that

1288
01:06:15,760 --> 01:06:18,559
I forgot to throw up at the top. What are

1289
01:06:18,599 --> 01:06:22,119
the Knicks? We were prepared for them to lose Mitchell Robinson,

1290
01:06:22,280 --> 01:06:25,199
but they've been linked to and I don't like, I'm

1291
01:06:25,239 --> 01:06:26,679
not gonna say it this placause I hate when people

1292
01:06:26,679 --> 01:06:29,360
say to me people are getting way too excited about

1293
01:06:29,360 --> 01:06:32,320
the idea of Kevon Looney potentially going to New York.

1294
01:06:32,800 --> 01:06:35,920
Speaker 2: I talking to the wrong guy. If you don't understand that, sir.

1295
01:06:36,679 --> 01:06:40,880
Speaker 1: I get it like three years ago, but as of

1296
01:06:41,000 --> 01:06:43,079
right now, he played in twenty one games for the

1297
01:06:43,079 --> 01:06:47,199
Pelicans last season. I don't as a locker room player, sure,

1298
01:06:47,239 --> 01:06:49,679
but I'm not if I'm the Knicks. I'm not comfortable

1299
01:06:49,679 --> 01:06:52,920
going into next season with Kevon Looney, Karnthy Towns, and

1300
01:06:52,960 --> 01:06:55,159
og At the five lineups in my back pocket is like,

1301
01:06:55,199 --> 01:06:56,280
that's rotating.

1302
01:06:56,320 --> 01:07:01,440
Speaker 2: You're definitely a body short there. I would say, Looney

1303
01:07:01,800 --> 01:07:06,599
can be seventy percent as good as Mitchell Robinson and

1304
01:07:07,639 --> 01:07:11,639
maybe play eighty percent as often, so like and this

1305
01:07:11,679 --> 01:07:15,280
is Mitchell Robinson we're talking about. So if that's on

1306
01:07:15,400 --> 01:07:18,280
the minimum, I don't have an issue with Looney as

1307
01:07:18,320 --> 01:07:21,199
your third guy, I think because there I do still

1308
01:07:21,239 --> 01:07:24,000
believe that on a good team, he might have a

1309
01:07:24,039 --> 01:07:27,239
few weeks where he's given you ten good minutes a night,

1310
01:07:27,440 --> 01:07:30,599
you know, but that's not a backup. That's that's especially

1311
01:07:30,599 --> 01:07:32,840
for a team that is coming off one hundred game season,

1312
01:07:33,360 --> 01:07:36,679
and you can't have Kat out there for more minutes

1313
01:07:36,719 --> 01:07:39,360
than he played last year. So they definitely are a

1314
01:07:39,400 --> 01:07:43,840
player a center away from being comfortable I have.

1315
01:07:44,000 --> 01:07:46,480
Speaker 1: So I have two main follow up questions. Why don't

1316
01:07:46,480 --> 01:07:49,039
I throw a bunch of trade targets at you for them?

1317
01:07:49,559 --> 01:07:53,480
But coronthy Town's I've gone back and forth because we

1318
01:07:53,559 --> 01:07:56,159
just saw Trey Young get what he got. Connee Town's

1319
01:07:56,159 --> 01:07:58,960
is extension eligible, oh boy. But then we also just

1320
01:07:58,960 --> 01:08:02,280
saw the way this the Celtics treated John Brown. And

1321
01:08:02,320 --> 01:08:04,440
now there are analytics this year that you could have

1322
01:08:04,480 --> 01:08:06,519
found that Karnthi Towns was more valuable to the Knicks

1323
01:08:06,519 --> 01:08:09,400
than John Brunson was should we have that conversation? But

1324
01:08:10,599 --> 01:08:15,360
do you think his extensions do you think one, assuming

1325
01:08:15,360 --> 01:08:18,079
he signs one? Do you think what has transpired this

1326
01:08:18,119 --> 01:08:22,640
summer bodes well for him or makes it more likely

1327
01:08:22,720 --> 01:08:27,000
that he will accept less than the max? Because the

1328
01:08:27,039 --> 01:08:29,239
max is the honesty. It's like the four two hundred

1329
01:08:29,239 --> 01:08:32,720
and seventy plus whatever ends up with. In my head,

1330
01:08:32,720 --> 01:08:35,800
I came into the summer thinking fifty million a year,

1331
01:08:35,880 --> 01:08:38,600
that's where he should be at. And then I see

1332
01:08:38,640 --> 01:08:40,720
just Trey Young get paid after being salary dumped, and

1333
01:08:40,800 --> 01:08:45,279
karlthy Towns might be the consummate Victor Weber yamafoil at

1334
01:08:45,319 --> 01:08:47,279
this point. And that's not me being a homer. That's

1335
01:08:47,319 --> 01:08:50,319
just I don't know which big is a worse matchup

1336
01:08:50,359 --> 01:08:53,399
for him. And so if I'm karlnthy Towns, I'm sitting

1337
01:08:53,439 --> 01:08:56,199
and watching this, I'm saying Trey Young's getting maxed out,

1338
01:08:56,880 --> 01:08:59,359
Walker Kessler's worth four first round picks. Why wouldn't I

1339
01:08:59,399 --> 01:09:01,840
just want money? But then you see the way Boston

1340
01:09:01,920 --> 01:09:05,359
treated Jalen Brown's contract that they treated as a net negative.

1341
01:09:05,359 --> 01:09:07,279
Whether it is or isn't, that's how they treated it.

1342
01:09:07,960 --> 01:09:11,199
I have no idea what to expect should he sign

1343
01:09:11,199 --> 01:09:12,359
an extension anymore.

1344
01:09:12,640 --> 01:09:14,840
Speaker 2: That's it's I hadn't even given this any thought. That

1345
01:09:14,880 --> 01:09:17,560
it is fascinating because there are all those elements that

1346
01:09:17,720 --> 01:09:21,319
would make him justifiable in saying Max. I just we

1347
01:09:21,399 --> 01:09:23,439
just want a title. And I was the second most

1348
01:09:23,680 --> 01:09:26,560
I mean, I was among the biggest reasons that we

1349
01:09:26,600 --> 01:09:28,640
did it. And the guy that we're going to have

1350
01:09:28,720 --> 01:09:31,000
to be probably if we go back to the finals,

1351
01:09:31,039 --> 01:09:34,760
like good luck chat yeah, better option, right, like, so

1352
01:09:35,399 --> 01:09:38,800
then you weigh that against the like the the Knicks

1353
01:09:38,800 --> 01:09:43,600
culture og excluded of taking less. Uh maybe that I

1354
01:09:43,600 --> 01:09:50,159
I don't know. I I would say that it's I'll

1355
01:09:50,199 --> 01:09:55,239
speak personally before this offseason and before the finals, I

1356
01:09:55,239 --> 01:09:57,000
would have said, like, if you're giving cap more than

1357
01:09:57,039 --> 01:09:59,800
like forty, you're out of your mind. And there were

1358
01:09:59,800 --> 01:10:02,239
probab points where I would have been even lower than

1359
01:10:02,279 --> 01:10:04,239
that when back when we said, like he's a center,

1360
01:10:04,239 --> 01:10:06,560
they can't play center, and he doesn't actually provide real

1361
01:10:06,600 --> 01:10:08,680
stretch and he can't guard and all that stuff. His

1362
01:10:08,800 --> 01:10:13,239
value is up from there. So for me, it's I

1363
01:10:13,399 --> 01:10:18,039
would be far less surprised if he got the MAX. Now,

1364
01:10:18,159 --> 01:10:20,560
then I would have been at any point leading up

1365
01:10:20,560 --> 01:10:25,720
to this, But I still don't know if that's if

1366
01:10:25,960 --> 01:10:28,680
that's enough, if of all the good and all the

1367
01:10:28,800 --> 01:10:32,520
value he's added is enough to offset the broad fear

1368
01:10:32,840 --> 01:10:34,960
that all these teams seem to be showing about having

1369
01:10:35,000 --> 01:10:37,520
these giant numbers on their books, Because it does seem

1370
01:10:37,560 --> 01:10:39,920
like you're right, like teams are real scared of the

1371
01:10:40,000 --> 01:10:42,640
Jalen Brown level money, it seems, and Kat would be

1372
01:10:42,720 --> 01:10:44,680
in line for that. So I don't, I don't, I

1373
01:10:44,680 --> 01:10:47,479
don't know. Do you think he's getting an extension?

1374
01:10:48,239 --> 01:10:51,479
Speaker 1: They would be fools not to figure it out, because

1375
01:10:51,960 --> 01:10:54,479
what did we just say? If if this is true,

1376
01:10:54,520 --> 01:10:57,000
I've seen some speculation the Wizards just agreed to this

1377
01:10:57,079 --> 01:10:59,479
deal to Tray Young when they traded for him, and

1378
01:10:59,520 --> 01:11:01,600
they let it leak that other teams were going to

1379
01:11:01,640 --> 01:11:03,960
max him out. But if there was a team working

1380
01:11:04,520 --> 01:11:08,279
ready to max out Trey Young after last season, the

1381
01:11:08,319 --> 01:11:12,239
only it it only takes one team. The argument is

1382
01:11:12,479 --> 01:11:15,640
far more persuasive for Karl Anthony Towns after what we

1383
01:11:15,800 --> 01:11:19,520
just watched than Trey Young. I just don't believe anyone

1384
01:11:19,640 --> 01:11:24,279
was maxing I I've it feels way more plausible to

1385
01:11:24,319 --> 01:11:27,319
me that the Oh, we're worried we paid Triyon this

1386
01:11:27,399 --> 01:11:29,800
much because somebody else was going to It's more plausible

1387
01:11:29,800 --> 01:11:31,640
to me that that is total bullshit.

1388
01:11:33,079 --> 01:11:36,680
Speaker 2: Than than than the truth. Uh but yeah, I'm your point.

1389
01:11:36,840 --> 01:11:39,680
K Cat is Cat's Cat is far more deserving of

1390
01:11:39,800 --> 01:11:42,039
a Trey Young level deal than Trey Young is.

1391
01:11:42,560 --> 01:11:45,199
Speaker 1: My official prediction is going to be signs and extension

1392
01:11:45,279 --> 01:11:47,399
for like four years, two hundred and five to two

1393
01:11:47,479 --> 01:11:50,399
hundred and ten million. That's noticedly below the max. It

1394
01:11:50,399 --> 01:11:53,800
would shave about fifteen million bucks depending on how they

1395
01:11:53,880 --> 01:11:56,359
started off his next year's salary, which would give them.

1396
01:11:56,359 --> 01:11:58,319
They're apparently not willing to pay the second apron because

1397
01:11:58,399 --> 01:12:02,239
James Dolen's a the most trouble way to put it.

1398
01:12:02,920 --> 01:12:05,159
I don't the big man spot, though, I increase in

1399
01:12:05,239 --> 01:12:07,800
like the Andre Drummond being on the open market. Still,

1400
01:12:07,840 --> 01:12:09,840
it feels like they need to address it via trade.

1401
01:12:10,399 --> 01:12:13,119
I'm now looking at Charlotte, they just took on before

1402
01:12:13,119 --> 01:12:15,680
we hopped on Dorian Phinney Smith for second round picks.

1403
01:12:15,960 --> 01:12:18,920
They're acting like a team that's not concerned with what's

1404
01:12:18,920 --> 01:12:22,319
happening next season. You're still gonna run into a problem

1405
01:12:22,600 --> 01:12:25,840
next year because he's gonna be a free agent. But

1406
01:12:26,000 --> 01:12:28,720
like Pacomb Doatier plus, how many seconds do you want

1407
01:12:28,720 --> 01:12:29,600
for Mussa Diabate?

1408
01:12:30,720 --> 01:12:32,479
Speaker 2: Well, they were want the next in on mecI too

1409
01:12:32,560 --> 01:12:33,920
because they could actually.

1410
01:12:33,840 --> 01:12:37,039
Speaker 1: Well the mecI thing is interesting because were you trading

1411
01:12:37,159 --> 01:12:40,319
McBride to match that salary or were you aggregating Colic

1412
01:12:40,399 --> 01:12:42,880
and Dottier. Those were your two options, And I understand

1413
01:12:42,920 --> 01:12:45,239
if you were aggregating Colic and Dottie, I understand why

1414
01:12:45,239 --> 01:12:47,399
the Pelicans are saying, no, we're good.

1415
01:12:47,479 --> 01:12:53,760
Speaker 2: Yeah, yeah, uh, I think what I'd rather have Diabate

1416
01:12:55,600 --> 01:12:58,279
for sure. I don't know if do you have enough?

1417
01:12:59,000 --> 01:13:01,439
Speaker 1: Like do you's they have enough set? They have enough

1418
01:13:01,479 --> 01:13:05,479
seconds if the cost is seconds. But if you viewed

1419
01:13:05,479 --> 01:13:08,199
the Charlotte also has like twenty second round picks over

1420
01:13:08,199 --> 01:13:09,039
the next seven years.

1421
01:13:09,239 --> 01:13:12,119
Speaker 2: It is it's in fact it is one.

1422
01:13:13,760 --> 01:13:17,399
Speaker 1: So but they did just draft Jannis Steinbach. They have

1423
01:13:17,520 --> 01:13:21,640
nas reed. Ryan Kalkbrenner's there. But if it's not Diabotte,

1424
01:13:21,760 --> 01:13:23,680
go take a look at Ryan Kulkbrener, who's super cheap

1425
01:13:23,720 --> 01:13:23,960
for the.

1426
01:13:23,880 --> 01:13:24,920
Speaker 2: Next two years.

1427
01:13:25,119 --> 01:13:28,760
Speaker 1: Yeah, I wanted to throw one final one at you.

1428
01:13:28,960 --> 01:13:32,319
From San Quinn of CBS Sports I hadn't even given

1429
01:13:32,359 --> 01:13:35,359
this thought. My answer is no, don't let that color

1430
01:13:35,439 --> 01:13:38,479
what you say your twenty thirty three first round pick,

1431
01:13:38,560 --> 01:13:40,640
since those are just being given out like candy your

1432
01:13:40,680 --> 01:13:43,880
twenty thirty two swap the salary, which is easy to

1433
01:13:43,880 --> 01:13:45,159
get to for khalil Ware.

1434
01:13:47,159 --> 01:13:50,199
Speaker 2: Well, are you getting there with some combination of Kolek

1435
01:13:50,279 --> 01:13:51,920
and Dottier or whatever?

1436
01:13:52,000 --> 01:13:54,039
Speaker 1: It has to be two players, right, because khalil Ware

1437
01:13:54,119 --> 01:13:56,399
is making like five minut I'll look at what Khalil

1438
01:13:56,399 --> 01:13:58,239
wears on the books and that's I.

1439
01:13:58,119 --> 01:14:02,039
Speaker 2: Mean, so you need a body and where if he's

1440
01:14:02,039 --> 01:14:04,000
not a starter, which is I feel like the jury

1441
01:14:04,079 --> 01:14:06,720
is still out on that. They're probably some of Miami

1442
01:14:06,760 --> 01:14:08,439
fans that think the verdict is in and he's not

1443
01:14:09,119 --> 01:14:14,199
that guy. That's It's tough because in the Knicks position,

1444
01:14:14,239 --> 01:14:17,800
you you just have to overpay because you win another title.

1445
01:14:18,159 --> 01:14:20,960
Speaker 1: He's at four point seven, so I think the Knicks

1446
01:14:20,960 --> 01:14:23,840
could get there with Dottie A's three and so you

1447
01:14:23,840 --> 01:14:26,800
could do kole Ak and Dottie would get you there.

1448
01:14:27,600 --> 01:14:29,199
So if you're giving up those first round picks, I'm

1449
01:14:29,199 --> 01:14:31,520
not giving up Duce McBride, No, thank you, it's not happen.

1450
01:14:32,840 --> 01:14:34,560
Speaker 2: Well, I'd rather give up Duce and not have to

1451
01:14:34,600 --> 01:14:36,439
give up both of those first rounders.

1452
01:14:36,439 --> 01:14:38,079
Speaker 1: But I just don't that's oh yeah, I don't think

1453
01:14:38,079 --> 01:14:39,840
that that wasn't I was framing it as Deuce in

1454
01:14:39,880 --> 01:14:41,560
the first plus those.

1455
01:14:41,359 --> 01:14:45,600
Speaker 2: Other I I think I'm taking my chances on a

1456
01:14:45,640 --> 01:14:47,520
minimum instead.

1457
01:14:47,199 --> 01:14:48,920
Speaker 1: Thank you please. I just I want to make sure

1458
01:14:48,960 --> 01:14:49,600
it wasn't just me.

1459
01:14:50,119 --> 01:14:52,640
Speaker 2: Yeah, no, I I you just can't guarantee me that

1460
01:14:52,680 --> 01:14:55,319
where is going to be so much more valuable than

1461
01:14:55,359 --> 01:14:57,239
a minimum guy that it's worth giving up all that

1462
01:14:57,279 --> 01:14:57,840
other stuff.

1463
01:14:59,000 --> 01:15:03,000
Speaker 1: Nick's adjacent Lebron watched four point zero. What did you

1464
01:15:03,039 --> 01:15:06,520
make of the You actually had some whether Rich Paul

1465
01:15:06,840 --> 01:15:09,479
going on his own podcast and outlining the five or

1466
01:15:09,520 --> 01:15:12,800
six teams that are like Lebron is considering. So it

1467
01:15:12,840 --> 01:15:16,119
was Philly Denver was on there, which maybe it's performative,

1468
01:15:16,159 --> 01:15:18,920
but I fucking just love that the idea that Lebron

1469
01:15:19,039 --> 01:15:22,560
might be considering teaming up with Yo Kich, Miami, Cleveland,

1470
01:15:22,840 --> 01:15:25,920
and Golden State. My only thought po either to you, Well,

1471
01:15:25,920 --> 01:15:27,439
I haven't many thoughts, but my one thought I want

1472
01:15:27,439 --> 01:15:31,199
to say is Miami would just be so lame. Been there, done,

1473
01:15:31,199 --> 01:15:33,279
that you're not going on a contender, You're still not

1474
01:15:33,359 --> 01:15:36,159
there yet. I get the appeal of Cleveland. It's a

1475
01:15:36,159 --> 01:15:39,960
good storybook ending Golden State. I'd love to see him

1476
01:15:40,000 --> 01:15:42,600
and Steph play together. I'm just rooting for Denver at

1477
01:15:42,600 --> 01:15:45,439
this point because that would be so not random, but

1478
01:15:45,479 --> 01:15:47,760
it would just be cool. Where do you land on

1479
01:15:47,800 --> 01:15:52,000
the whole one? Lebron watched two non Warriors division. Where

1480
01:15:52,000 --> 01:15:52,840
do you think he should go?

1481
01:15:53,520 --> 01:15:58,680
Speaker 2: Uh? So, I'll start with maybe it's performative. Every single

1482
01:15:58,720 --> 01:16:02,319
aspect of it is performative. It's being recorded audio and

1483
01:16:02,439 --> 01:16:06,000
video and sold with ads as an entertainment product.

1484
01:16:06,239 --> 01:16:09,439
Speaker 1: So yeah, I think we're saying we're not authentic.

1485
01:16:10,079 --> 01:16:15,079
Speaker 2: No, we're performative. This whole thing is performative. Everybody that's

1486
01:16:15,119 --> 01:16:16,279
doing this is performing.

1487
01:16:16,840 --> 01:16:19,079
Speaker 1: You actually hate each other more than Tatum and jb

1488
01:16:19,159 --> 01:16:20,760
off Air. Nobody knows.

1489
01:16:20,760 --> 01:16:22,840
Speaker 2: Just sixers don't have enough to trade for me. They

1490
01:16:23,560 --> 01:16:27,920
so I I saw. I haven't seen the video of

1491
01:16:28,319 --> 01:16:30,279
the Rich Paul Whiteboard. I've seen the clips of it.

1492
01:16:30,319 --> 01:16:33,800
I've seen people making jokes about the various selling points

1493
01:16:33,840 --> 01:16:36,000
in places like Dallas, Like I guess Lebron's a big

1494
01:16:36,000 --> 01:16:38,880
oil and gas guy. Lebron big landman fan just really

1495
01:16:38,880 --> 01:16:40,880
wants to get in there and get in the oil

1496
01:16:40,920 --> 01:16:46,920
and gas industry. I have such a visceral, like puke

1497
01:16:47,199 --> 01:16:52,079
reaction to any any time, Like I don't rich Paul Is.

1498
01:16:52,279 --> 01:16:53,800
He can do what he wants, like make as much

1499
01:16:53,800 --> 01:16:55,880
money as you can, like get as much attention as

1500
01:16:55,880 --> 01:16:59,239
you can. I guess it's just like I don't see

1501
01:16:59,279 --> 01:17:02,039
any value in it. I think it's just like kind

1502
01:17:02,039 --> 01:17:07,399
of icky and obnoxious that there's an agent on his

1503
01:17:07,560 --> 01:17:13,279
podcast sort of like generating more interest and keeping his

1504
01:17:13,359 --> 01:17:16,239
guy in the news. And I get it, that's how

1505
01:17:16,279 --> 01:17:17,840
the game is played. I just kind of hate it

1506
01:17:17,880 --> 01:17:19,520
and I think it sucks and I wish we didn't

1507
01:17:19,520 --> 01:17:22,199
live in this kind of world. But like this is

1508
01:17:22,520 --> 01:17:24,760
so what we can talk about the destinations, but I

1509
01:17:24,880 --> 01:17:30,039
just like I hate every aspect of this self emotion machine.

1510
01:17:30,640 --> 01:17:33,520
Speaker 1: Is this coming from the perspective of, well, where's Jonathan

1511
01:17:33,560 --> 01:17:34,840
Kaminga's podcast? Pitch?

1512
01:17:35,560 --> 01:17:39,880
Speaker 2: I mean ninety but probably is that's what it is? Uh,

1513
01:17:40,399 --> 01:17:42,319
Denver is a ton of fun that would be way

1514
01:17:42,359 --> 01:17:45,319
better than Miami. I agree on your behalf. I would

1515
01:17:45,319 --> 01:17:46,600
say why not the Knicks?

1516
01:17:46,960 --> 01:17:49,439
Speaker 1: Oh? Actually, can we so one of the things that

1517
01:17:49,479 --> 01:17:51,520
you didn't watch it. Rich Paul said, if the Knicks

1518
01:17:51,520 --> 01:17:54,600
didn't win the title, Lebron would just be going to

1519
01:17:54,640 --> 01:17:57,680
the Knicks. I think it's easy to say that because

1520
01:17:57,680 --> 01:18:00,760
the Knicks won the title. What he did say that

1521
01:18:00,800 --> 01:18:05,079
I found interesting was that for the Knicks to still

1522
01:18:05,239 --> 01:18:07,319
get Lebron or for Lebron to go there, and he

1523
01:18:07,359 --> 01:18:11,319
did outline I thought was what I found interesting was

1524
01:18:11,920 --> 01:18:14,119
him saying Lebron going to a team that just won

1525
01:18:14,199 --> 01:18:16,199
the title isn't fair to that team because of the

1526
01:18:16,239 --> 01:18:19,560
disruption it provides. I thought that was fairly self aware

1527
01:18:19,600 --> 01:18:23,359
of the situation. Yeah, but he said the Knicks have

1528
01:18:23,479 --> 01:18:26,439
checked in which Jake Fisher had reported before that podcast

1529
01:18:26,479 --> 01:18:28,800
went live. Maybe he got footage of the podcast before

1530
01:18:28,800 --> 01:18:31,640
it went live, or maybe he just has sources. Who knows, Uh,

1531
01:18:31,680 --> 01:18:34,960
he has sources. But he said John Brunson would have

1532
01:18:35,000 --> 01:18:38,199
to call Lebron and say, look like we want like

1533
01:18:38,239 --> 01:18:40,640
this could work. I want you here. And so my

1534
01:18:40,840 --> 01:18:42,840
question that I posed to you before we hopped on

1535
01:18:43,439 --> 01:18:45,800
because I wanted to make sure I'm not taking crazy pills.

1536
01:18:45,840 --> 01:18:47,359
I think if you asked a lot of Knicks fans,

1537
01:18:47,399 --> 01:18:50,359
they would say keep this dude away from my team

1538
01:18:50,439 --> 01:18:53,560
right now. And I'm in my head if this is legitimate,

1539
01:18:53,560 --> 01:18:55,359
and all it takes is a phone call from Jalen

1540
01:18:55,399 --> 01:18:58,399
Brunson to get him to sign for the minimum, I

1541
01:18:59,239 --> 01:19:01,199
am blowing up Lebron's phone.

1542
01:19:02,520 --> 01:19:07,479
Speaker 2: Like, no question, no question. I'm like, I don't. I

1543
01:19:07,680 --> 01:19:11,159
just the the idea of like him being disruptive somehow

1544
01:19:11,319 --> 01:19:15,239
is well yeah, like it would. It would change the

1545
01:19:15,319 --> 01:19:17,840
dynamic a lot, and like part of what's so appealing

1546
01:19:17,880 --> 01:19:20,640
about the Knicks is like the vibes are pretty great, right,

1547
01:19:20,720 --> 01:19:25,359
Like everybody seems to like each other, right, Like, well,

1548
01:19:25,359 --> 01:19:27,479
this is one of those situations where like literally any

1549
01:19:27,600 --> 01:19:30,359
change you make probably makes it worse because it's impossible

1550
01:19:30,359 --> 01:19:32,920
to make it better, right like that, just because this

1551
01:19:33,039 --> 01:19:36,239
is this is as good as it gets. I still

1552
01:19:36,239 --> 01:19:38,359
would want Lebron James on my team for the minimum,

1553
01:19:38,399 --> 01:19:40,319
Like what are we talking about? You can wave him

1554
01:19:40,359 --> 01:19:43,079
if you want, Like, if what's it going to cost you?

1555
01:19:43,399 --> 01:19:45,960
If all this isn't gonna work at all? He's there's

1556
01:19:45,960 --> 01:19:48,600
too much attention on us, Like I don't. I just okay,

1557
01:19:48,800 --> 01:19:51,079
you're invested in nothing? Who cares?

1558
01:19:51,319 --> 01:19:53,720
Speaker 1: Honestly? I think the only reason not to do it.

1559
01:19:53,760 --> 01:19:56,600
I know that Lebron comes with a spectacle, some of

1560
01:19:56,640 --> 01:19:59,159
which I think is or much of it is by

1561
01:19:59,159 --> 01:20:03,840
his own design. Yes, I think the real concern would be, well,

1562
01:20:04,000 --> 01:20:06,800
now we know that one of Josh Harden Mchal Bridges

1563
01:20:06,880 --> 01:20:08,680
is not going to be closing games, and is that

1564
01:20:08,840 --> 01:20:11,680
something that I understand. It's easy to say, well, just

1565
01:20:11,760 --> 01:20:14,359
get over it and figure it out, but like that

1566
01:20:14,359 --> 01:20:18,600
that's a meaningful thing, especially coming off a title to

1567
01:20:18,840 --> 01:20:20,880
to find out that, oh, I'm not part of our

1568
01:20:21,119 --> 01:20:24,159
We've seen Mike Brown make those calls in the moment

1569
01:20:24,199 --> 01:20:27,399
where it's no, mchail Bridges isn't closing, Josh Hard isn't closing.

1570
01:20:27,439 --> 01:20:31,159
Karnthy Towns isn't closing. Really, John Brunton and og An

1571
01:20:31,199 --> 01:20:35,000
Andobi were the only two year wire to wire that

1572
01:20:35,039 --> 01:20:39,279
we're just sharp eyed in we're closing with them. So

1573
01:20:39,359 --> 01:20:41,520
I understand it from that perspective. But I also this

1574
01:20:41,600 --> 01:20:44,279
is maybe me being greedy, but I I just wouldn't care.

1575
01:20:44,399 --> 01:20:48,960
Speaker 2: I think you're not gonna come up with a single like, uh,

1576
01:20:49,359 --> 01:20:55,039
potential problem doesn't want to that's it. That would be it, Like,

1577
01:20:55,199 --> 01:20:58,560
but beyond that, go get him, like what are we

1578
01:20:58,600 --> 01:21:00,840
taught this is ridiculous, Like there's no.

1579
01:21:00,920 --> 01:21:02,960
Speaker 1: Which is there, which is why I think Rich Paul

1580
01:21:03,000 --> 01:21:05,439
is lying. It's easy to say this because it's not

1581
01:21:05,479 --> 01:21:06,920
going to happen, now, do you know what I mean?

1582
01:21:07,000 --> 01:21:11,000
Speaker 2: If that course of course, yeah, Denver, I'm with you

1583
01:21:11,039 --> 01:21:15,520
on Denver Dallas doesn't make any sense at all. Uh.

1584
01:21:16,239 --> 01:21:19,680
I think I think the realistic candidates are the ones

1585
01:21:19,720 --> 01:21:21,880
that have been actually reported and not thrown out there

1586
01:21:21,880 --> 01:21:25,600
by his official paid representation. Uh so you're.

1587
01:21:25,479 --> 01:21:28,239
Speaker 1: So wild of a thing, that is to say, yeah, right,

1588
01:21:28,439 --> 01:21:29,399
you're not wrong either.

1589
01:21:29,399 --> 01:21:34,000
Speaker 2: Then again, like the paid representation is very much responsible

1590
01:21:34,039 --> 01:21:37,239
for leaking to those reporters who is actually involved in

1591
01:21:37,279 --> 01:21:41,960
addition to the teams your Cleveland, sure you you've already

1592
01:21:41,960 --> 01:21:44,760
gone over Cleveland, Golden State, Miami. I don't see. I

1593
01:21:44,760 --> 01:21:47,359
would put Denver no lower than third of like the

1594
01:21:48,079 --> 01:21:50,319
if if that's even a realistic so you.

1595
01:21:50,279 --> 01:21:51,479
Speaker 1: Have the warriors in their own tier.

1596
01:21:51,560 --> 01:21:53,920
Speaker 2: Correct, it's just of course, you know we've already talked

1597
01:21:53,920 --> 01:21:56,279
about this, like that's I want that worse than anything.

1598
01:21:56,720 --> 01:22:00,800
Speaker 1: What is your prediction if I'm forcing make one, which I.

1599
01:22:00,800 --> 01:22:04,640
Speaker 2: Am, I if I get too, it's Golden State and Cleveland,

1600
01:22:05,000 --> 01:22:07,199
and I think if I get one again, this is

1601
01:22:07,199 --> 01:22:10,199
probably the heart's talking a little bit here, but I

1602
01:22:10,199 --> 01:22:12,560
think it's Golden State. Like the proximity to LA I

1603
01:22:12,560 --> 01:22:16,479
think is being undervalued, like he's got all these other interests,

1604
01:22:16,520 --> 01:22:18,920
his family's there, his daughter still in school, like I

1605
01:22:18,960 --> 01:22:22,199
think moving even if so, that's why Cleveland is the

1606
01:22:22,279 --> 01:22:24,960
sort of obvious second one. Oh, the Sixers are another

1607
01:22:24,960 --> 01:22:27,239
one that's kind of been mentioned here. After the Brown trade,

1608
01:22:27,720 --> 01:22:29,359
you known to move all the way across the country

1609
01:22:29,399 --> 01:22:32,000
to a team that even within makes less sense there

1610
01:22:32,039 --> 01:22:37,000
now well, I mean in no, because I think the

1611
01:22:37,039 --> 01:22:39,520
team is better and so if he wants to win

1612
01:22:39,560 --> 01:22:44,399
a championship or like play meaningful basketball, play hashtag meaningful basketball.

1613
01:22:45,720 --> 01:22:48,039
The Sixers are more intriguing for that reason. But like

1614
01:22:48,039 --> 01:22:50,119
from a fit perspective, sure, if it's like, well you

1615
01:22:50,159 --> 01:22:52,319
got Brown, like I guess I would probably play Lebron

1616
01:22:52,359 --> 01:22:55,600
over Dean Wade. If that's the positional situation we're talking about.

1617
01:22:56,279 --> 01:22:58,159
I don't know what the advanced metrics say, though maybe

1618
01:22:58,479 --> 01:22:59,720
they probably like Wade better.

1619
01:23:01,159 --> 01:23:03,520
Speaker 1: I'm picking Golden State as well because I'm I can't

1620
01:23:03,560 --> 01:23:05,560
for anyone who has didn't listen to our previous episode.

1621
01:23:05,600 --> 01:23:07,239
I'm just latching onto the fact now, I had no

1622
01:23:07,319 --> 01:23:12,359
idea that the Warriors basically trademark the word phrase meaningful basketball.

1623
01:23:12,800 --> 01:23:18,039
And the fact that Rich Paul or whoever leaked that

1624
01:23:18,119 --> 01:23:21,319
statement initially following his decision not to go back to

1625
01:23:21,359 --> 01:23:25,439
the Lakers. That's just I think that's the only thing

1626
01:23:25,479 --> 01:23:27,840
that makes sense now, and that maybe it's a two

1627
01:23:27,880 --> 01:23:30,800
year deal and the second year spent in Cleveland, but

1628
01:23:30,840 --> 01:23:32,800
it feels next year to me. I think it's gonna

1629
01:23:32,800 --> 01:23:36,319
be the Warriors we have. If Golden State doesn't get

1630
01:23:36,319 --> 01:23:38,800
a D, it's not happening. Well, speaking of a D,

1631
01:23:39,000 --> 01:23:41,439
I think we just have two topics we need to hit. Okay,

1632
01:23:42,279 --> 01:23:45,800
the eight and trade. This is maybe I'm overstepping here

1633
01:23:45,960 --> 01:23:48,359
or overreading into it, but if you just acquired DeAndre

1634
01:23:48,399 --> 01:23:51,560
Ayton as the Wizards while giving up second round picks

1635
01:23:51,600 --> 01:23:54,199
to do so, doesn't it make it more likely that

1636
01:23:54,239 --> 01:23:57,560
you're gonna trade Anthony Davis? Uh?

1637
01:23:58,720 --> 01:24:01,920
Speaker 2: Well, if the alternative, what's the alternative explanation that they

1638
01:24:02,039 --> 01:24:05,239
value him as a third big at eight million dollars?

1639
01:24:05,640 --> 01:24:09,560
And I guess two seconds feels yeah, I guess it

1640
01:24:09,680 --> 01:24:13,159
feels I think it's that that's still a possibility. And

1641
01:24:13,239 --> 01:24:15,079
this is this is the Wizards, by the way, who

1642
01:24:15,079 --> 01:24:19,359
we have just recently gotten confirmation, are still totally irrational.

1643
01:24:19,680 --> 01:24:22,279
So you gotta you gotta price that in a little bit.

1644
01:24:22,479 --> 01:24:25,159
You're right, I didn't price that in. Yeah, think about

1645
01:24:25,159 --> 01:24:27,720
who we're talking about. Yeah, I think I think you're

1646
01:24:27,760 --> 01:24:31,079
not wrong to look at it as as Okay, well, uh,

1647
01:24:31,800 --> 01:24:34,039
you know, clearly there's a market, there's interest in a

1648
01:24:34,159 --> 01:24:36,199
d Maybe this is the time to move him, especially

1649
01:24:36,199 --> 01:24:38,479
if we are not going to extend him, which is

1650
01:24:38,560 --> 01:24:40,560
kind of the as much as anything, that's kind of

1651
01:24:40,600 --> 01:24:42,479
the deciding factor here. If you're not going to extend him,

1652
01:24:42,479 --> 01:24:45,279
then you probably do need to just move him because

1653
01:24:45,279 --> 01:24:47,159
the value is going to go down and when he

1654
01:24:47,199 --> 01:24:49,840
makes a trade demand or says I'm only signing X,

1655
01:24:49,960 --> 01:24:52,600
Y or Z, so you want to avoid that if

1656
01:24:52,600 --> 01:24:53,159
you can.

1657
01:24:53,439 --> 01:24:55,199
Speaker 1: Do they get more for him than the South they's

1658
01:24:55,199 --> 01:24:56,199
got for Jalen Brown.

1659
01:24:57,239 --> 01:24:59,319
Speaker 2: Well, what was the Warriors rumor package? I guess it

1660
01:24:59,399 --> 01:25:08,079
never really he was sort of crystallized, But yes, because yeah,

1661
01:25:08,119 --> 01:25:13,159
because that all that would take is two legit firsts, right.

1662
01:25:13,600 --> 01:25:16,359
Speaker 1: And an expiring contract probably right, or a contract that's

1663
01:25:16,399 --> 01:25:17,800
not viewed as toxic.

1664
01:25:17,880 --> 01:25:19,880
Speaker 2: It's not a negative. Yeah, you're not. I don't think

1665
01:25:19,920 --> 01:25:22,439
you're taking back bad money for Davis. I think you're

1666
01:25:22,439 --> 01:25:23,199
taking back.

1667
01:25:24,640 --> 01:25:26,560
Speaker 1: I would have said the same thing about a Jaylen

1668
01:25:26,600 --> 01:25:28,159
Brown trade a few days ago.

1669
01:25:28,760 --> 01:25:32,359
Speaker 2: Well, I'm if you got to pin me down, I'm

1670
01:25:32,399 --> 01:25:35,199
saying the Wizards will get more than the Celtics got.

1671
01:25:36,319 --> 01:25:37,640
Speaker 1: The other thing I wanted to talk to about is

1672
01:25:37,640 --> 01:25:40,079
the Rockets in general. So they traded Dorian Phinney Smith

1673
01:25:40,640 --> 01:25:44,239
got out of his contract. They added Marcus Smart for

1674
01:25:44,439 --> 01:25:46,319
the Mini mL. It looks like it was reporters two

1675
01:25:46,359 --> 01:25:48,439
years and thirteen million dollars, which I guess they'd have

1676
01:25:48,520 --> 01:25:50,800
the ability to do after trading Dorrian Finie Smith, but

1677
01:25:50,840 --> 01:25:53,479
looks like he's signing for the Mini mL e Tari

1678
01:25:53,600 --> 01:25:57,199
Easton back at five years and eighty one point five

1679
01:25:57,319 --> 01:26:01,439
fully guaranteed. That is less if you could, which you can't.

1680
01:26:01,520 --> 01:26:03,600
If you could give out a non tax mL deal

1681
01:26:03,640 --> 01:26:07,520
for five years with five percent raises, it would amount

1682
01:26:07,600 --> 01:26:11,239
to more than what Tary Eason just got, which, by

1683
01:26:11,279 --> 01:26:14,039
the way, I think makes the Lakers offseason look even worse.

1684
01:26:14,720 --> 01:26:17,880
I just don't they couldn't have gotten Tari Easan, but

1685
01:26:18,640 --> 01:26:23,439
so Mamu was worth fifty four two over four. It's

1686
01:26:23,479 --> 01:26:26,399
just I will say, do you know what, it definitely

1687
01:26:26,439 --> 01:26:29,880
makes look worse the Christian Brown deal, Right. I know

1688
01:26:29,960 --> 01:26:32,880
they're different players. I know they're different players, but you

1689
01:26:32,920 --> 01:26:35,960
could make the case they're similarly impactful. If Esan's not

1690
01:26:36,039 --> 01:26:39,880
more impactful, this is gonna top out. I know this

1691
01:26:39,960 --> 01:26:42,119
is usually where you do it, but I saw the

1692
01:26:42,199 --> 01:26:44,359
number and I was like, I had to do the conversion.

1693
01:26:45,359 --> 01:26:48,399
Speaker 2: At its highest point. Easan's deal will make up nine

1694
01:26:48,479 --> 01:26:51,560
point two percent of the projected salary cap. And this

1695
01:26:51,680 --> 01:26:54,720
is a guy that is a rotation player for sure

1696
01:26:54,840 --> 01:26:58,279
right now. And if he develops as a shooter I'm

1697
01:26:58,279 --> 01:27:00,479
talking is like two percent better because he was just

1698
01:27:00,560 --> 01:27:03,880
under thirty six percent last year, then this is a heist.

1699
01:27:04,159 --> 01:27:06,199
I don't know how likely that is, Like he's far

1700
01:27:06,279 --> 01:27:08,479
enough into his career where like he's probably just a

1701
01:27:08,520 --> 01:27:12,159
slightly below average three point shooter. But if he's any

1702
01:27:12,199 --> 01:27:15,039
better than he's been, uh, this is one of the

1703
01:27:15,039 --> 01:27:18,000
better deals signed by anybody. I think team team. From

1704
01:27:18,000 --> 01:27:20,600
a team perspective, I assume you agree. I feel like

1705
01:27:20,600 --> 01:27:22,520
you've always been a little higher on Easton than me,

1706
01:27:22,600 --> 01:27:26,279
but even I got to concede. This is just this

1707
01:27:26,359 --> 01:27:28,920
is a great deal for Houston, even though it's like

1708
01:27:28,920 --> 01:27:30,000
I don't know if this is even the type of

1709
01:27:30,039 --> 01:27:34,239
player Houston needs. Value proposition, He feels more, Yeah, he

1710
01:27:34,239 --> 01:27:37,239
feels more like a luxury to them. And I think

1711
01:27:37,640 --> 01:27:40,279
the three point shooting is shaky, but the volume is

1712
01:27:40,439 --> 01:27:43,640
has gone up. The defense is I don't want to

1713
01:27:43,640 --> 01:27:44,399
say the defense is.

1714
01:27:44,439 --> 01:27:47,800
Speaker 1: Overrated, but I don't want him defending he when he

1715
01:27:47,840 --> 01:27:50,720
plays the flour or like, he's just abruptive. He's disruptive

1716
01:27:50,760 --> 01:27:53,399
and like makes he's a make shit happen guy, and

1717
01:27:53,479 --> 01:27:56,960
that he's the he's the inverse of John Brown, right, sure,

1718
01:27:57,520 --> 01:27:59,399
sure he's doing stuff off the ball. There's like all

1719
01:27:59,439 --> 01:28:02,640
these marginal he like he speeds guys up, you know

1720
01:28:02,720 --> 01:28:05,239
that kind of like that kind of stuff. Yeah, I

1721
01:28:05,279 --> 01:28:09,760
think I think conventionally as a defender he's overrated, but

1722
01:28:09,760 --> 01:28:11,800
I think he's probably underrated in terms of just like

1723
01:28:11,840 --> 01:28:15,039
his impact on Like he can change a game just

1724
01:28:15,079 --> 01:28:18,720
by like the way that he plays. And again, nine

1725
01:28:18,760 --> 01:28:20,640
percent of the cap at its at its peak for

1726
01:28:20,680 --> 01:28:23,119
this deal, like that's worth it. I have a more

1727
01:28:23,159 --> 01:28:25,640
macro question about what that means, but I did I've

1728
01:28:26,239 --> 01:28:30,119
I've so far loved Houston's offseason, but I am sort

1729
01:28:30,119 --> 01:28:34,239
of wondering Fred Vanvleet's gonna be healthy, Marcus Smart is there? Now?

1730
01:28:35,159 --> 01:28:37,720
Is it time to free read Shepherd to another team?

1731
01:28:38,039 --> 01:28:40,279
Or is this or does this signal you know what?

1732
01:28:40,560 --> 01:28:42,239
Maybe we can get away with more Jabbari at the

1733
01:28:42,279 --> 01:28:44,840
five now that Marcus Smart is back.

1734
01:28:45,119 --> 01:28:50,520
Speaker 2: Interesting Maybe yeah, maybe maybe it's it is. I mean,

1735
01:28:50,640 --> 01:28:52,520
Read Shepherd well was always going to be a talking

1736
01:28:52,560 --> 01:28:56,479
point for us, but the van Vliet being back like

1737
01:28:56,560 --> 01:28:59,560
he's Shepherd is not gonna start like and he's is

1738
01:28:59,600 --> 01:29:00,399
he gonna close?

1739
01:29:02,239 --> 01:29:05,479
Speaker 1: You know what? Here's he's not right? Is going to

1740
01:29:05,520 --> 01:29:08,399
play Marcus Martin, Fred Vanfleet over reached Shepherd in time?

1741
01:29:08,439 --> 01:29:11,640
Speaker 2: I think, I think so a line of thinking. I

1742
01:29:11,720 --> 01:29:13,640
think the when we were talking about the Blazers and

1743
01:29:13,680 --> 01:29:16,640
Scoot and Sharp. This kind of line of thinking has

1744
01:29:16,720 --> 01:29:20,079
started to creep into my analysis of stuff more lately.

1745
01:29:20,119 --> 01:29:22,199
I don't know if that means it's right, but I'm

1746
01:29:22,560 --> 01:29:25,039
the idea of like all I read prove it, like

1747
01:29:25,760 --> 01:29:27,920
this is not an optimal situation for you. There's guys

1748
01:29:27,920 --> 01:29:29,920
ahead of you in the rotation. We just got another one.

1749
01:29:29,960 --> 01:29:32,399
I don't Bogdanovitch might play well enough to steal minutes

1750
01:29:32,399 --> 01:29:34,640
from Shepard, but if Shephard is who we think he is,

1751
01:29:36,439 --> 01:29:39,119
he'll he'll he'll find a way to be a bigger

1752
01:29:39,159 --> 01:29:41,279
part of this team than he was now. That assumes

1753
01:29:41,279 --> 01:29:43,159
a fair shake for Mudoka, which is by a lot

1754
01:29:43,199 --> 01:29:46,279
of Rockets fans accounts not happened. But as a what

1755
01:29:46,319 --> 01:29:48,920
do you think about that? Just am I being like too?

1756
01:29:49,479 --> 01:29:49,880
Speaker 1: Uh?

1757
01:29:50,039 --> 01:29:52,439
Speaker 2: It's like almost like a boomer take of like, well,

1758
01:29:52,439 --> 01:29:54,319
if you're good enough, figure it out. You know you

1759
01:29:55,199 --> 01:29:58,000
like is that too? Is that not right? Because you're

1760
01:29:58,199 --> 01:30:00,560
starting to appeal to me, You're you are right?

1761
01:30:00,600 --> 01:30:04,720
Speaker 1: And I was. I was interrogated, unfairly interrogated by Solomon

1762
01:30:04,960 --> 01:30:07,640
and Forrest on the Rockets Offseason look Ahead, asking did

1763
01:30:07,640 --> 01:30:10,039
you see reed Shepherd's minutes? Why do you think that

1764
01:30:10,039 --> 01:30:12,039
he didn't get a fair shake? And I said, I

1765
01:30:12,079 --> 01:30:14,000
see the minutes. I think it too long for him

1766
01:30:14,000 --> 01:30:15,359
to get to the minutes. And they did a lot

1767
01:30:15,359 --> 01:30:18,159
of Shenanians when it came to end of game stuff.

1768
01:30:18,560 --> 01:30:20,960
That's where I have an issue. Now that you have

1769
01:30:21,119 --> 01:30:23,600
other options that are worthwhile and like there was no

1770
01:30:23,600 --> 01:30:25,199
friend van Fleet last year. They didn't make a trade

1771
01:30:25,239 --> 01:30:27,600
at the trade deadline. So you are now you're more

1772
01:30:27,680 --> 01:30:31,079
right than ever is you. Are you proving it in practice?

1773
01:30:31,119 --> 01:30:32,840
Are you? You know what? Yeah, short Burst might not

1774
01:30:32,880 --> 01:30:35,319
be the easiest stretches to play in. That's too bad.

1775
01:30:35,439 --> 01:30:36,720
You got two guys who were in front of you

1776
01:30:36,760 --> 01:30:39,640
with the pecking order. So he has reached that point.

1777
01:30:39,680 --> 01:30:41,880
But it is kind of a bummer because I still

1778
01:30:41,960 --> 01:30:43,920
believe in him that I don't know if he's going

1779
01:30:43,960 --> 01:30:46,800
to get more of an opportunity Glasgow to desk. What

1780
01:30:46,880 --> 01:30:49,680
do you even get for Reed Shepherd selling as long

1781
01:30:49,680 --> 01:30:51,319
as you might as well keep him. I look, I

1782
01:30:51,359 --> 01:30:53,199
give up Paul George in the two first round picks?

1783
01:30:54,880 --> 01:30:57,159
Speaker 2: You would would you give up here?

1784
01:30:57,279 --> 01:31:00,800
Speaker 1: Okay? Would you give up Peyton Pritchard for Reed Shepherd?

1785
01:31:02,920 --> 01:31:06,279
Speaker 2: No, because you would never trade Jalen Brunson right before

1786
01:31:06,319 --> 01:31:09,199
he becomes Jalen Brunson for Reed Shepherd. That's one even

1787
01:31:09,239 --> 01:31:11,800
you can appreciate because it's Jalen Brunson specifically.

1788
01:31:12,439 --> 01:31:14,760
Speaker 1: No, I t for Reed Shepherd right now. I'm so

1789
01:31:14,880 --> 01:31:17,319
invested in being right and married to.

1790
01:31:17,319 --> 01:31:21,640
Speaker 2: My take that aging, you know, like he's Jalen Brunson's

1791
01:31:21,640 --> 01:31:23,520
never going to be more valuable than he is right now,

1792
01:31:23,560 --> 01:31:25,119
So you probably want to just get out of the

1793
01:31:25,119 --> 01:31:25,840
game if you can.

1794
01:31:26,600 --> 01:31:28,800
Speaker 1: The So the macro question I had this is really

1795
01:31:28,840 --> 01:31:31,439
related to Tarry Easton, and by the way, Good mentioned

1796
01:31:31,439 --> 01:31:33,680
on Bogdanovitch. I thought that was like a nice minimum

1797
01:31:33,720 --> 01:31:35,439
fly I don't know what he has left, but I

1798
01:31:35,439 --> 01:31:38,760
thought that was a good minimum flyer by them. If

1799
01:31:38,840 --> 01:31:43,600
Tari Easan got that, what does Peyton Watson get?

1800
01:31:45,359 --> 01:31:48,800
Speaker 2: I think he's still a nine figure guy. I think

1801
01:31:48,920 --> 01:31:51,520
I think if it's four for twenty five or or

1802
01:31:51,560 --> 01:31:56,079
something like that, it does it does not bode well

1803
01:31:56,159 --> 01:31:58,119
for him that it's gone on this long and we

1804
01:31:58,159 --> 01:32:01,119
haven't heard like I haven't even seen like a rumor about,

1805
01:32:01,279 --> 01:32:04,359
you know, I haven't like we've Kessler and Duran and

1806
01:32:04,479 --> 01:32:06,960
we're certainly like, well, all these teams are interested, they're

1807
01:32:06,960 --> 01:32:09,800
taking meetings, like, not a peep about Peyton Watson has

1808
01:32:09,880 --> 01:32:14,199
really been on my radar. So that said, I still

1809
01:32:14,199 --> 01:32:16,920
think he's someone that if you signed for twenty five

1810
01:32:16,960 --> 01:32:19,439
million dollars a year like that, dude is tradable for value.

1811
01:32:19,479 --> 01:32:21,319
If you're the Nuggets and maybe that's all that matters

1812
01:32:21,319 --> 01:32:26,359
to you, But I think he's I think I'm inclined

1813
01:32:26,399 --> 01:32:29,119
to think that the shooting progression is like close enough

1814
01:32:29,159 --> 01:32:31,920
to reel last year, and the defense and the athleticism,

1815
01:32:31,960 --> 01:32:34,119
like that's just someone that has got to be worth

1816
01:32:34,159 --> 01:32:37,159
significantly more than Easan. Still, I think.

1817
01:32:39,199 --> 01:32:42,119
Speaker 1: I agree that he has more. There's more to his

1818
01:32:42,159 --> 01:32:45,359
game and Easton has, especially when you're looking offensively. I'm

1819
01:32:45,399 --> 01:32:47,880
just curious because it's easy for him to use the

1820
01:32:49,199 --> 01:32:52,479
Christian Brown five years, one hundred and twenty five basically

1821
01:32:52,520 --> 01:32:56,279
as his analog is baseline. But if this other stuff

1822
01:32:57,079 --> 01:33:00,399
is happening, where Tarry Eastan, who's at least they're all

1823
01:33:00,399 --> 01:33:04,920
in like the similar archetype of players. He's accepting that.

1824
01:33:05,039 --> 01:33:07,199
I know he's had more health issues, but Peyton Watson

1825
01:33:07,439 --> 01:33:10,000
didn't finish the season healthy in Denver. I'm just curious.

1826
01:33:10,439 --> 01:33:13,159
I still think this all ends up with their salary

1827
01:33:13,199 --> 01:33:15,039
dumping someone and he'll get paid and I'll take the

1828
01:33:15,079 --> 01:33:17,560
over for sure on it. But I initially thought he

1829
01:33:17,640 --> 01:33:20,239
was gonna be like thirty million a year. Yeah, I'm

1830
01:33:20,239 --> 01:33:23,000
now sort of wondering if we just did the market's

1831
01:33:23,119 --> 01:33:26,640
just gonna shift kind of measurably year to year. I

1832
01:33:26,640 --> 01:33:29,680
think I'm gonna take under thirty is gonna be we go.

1833
01:33:29,760 --> 01:33:31,920
Speaker 2: I'll probably go under thirty. I can't remember where I

1834
01:33:31,960 --> 01:33:33,399
landed before. I feel like I was in the twenty

1835
01:33:33,439 --> 01:33:35,720
five to thirty range and like, you just bite the

1836
01:33:35,760 --> 01:33:37,760
bullet if it is thirty. But yeah, I think I

1837
01:33:37,800 --> 01:33:40,640
think you're probably right. What about Duran do you want

1838
01:33:40,640 --> 01:33:42,880
to make Let's make this thing stale and like just

1839
01:33:43,039 --> 01:33:44,560
make a Durham prediction right now.

1840
01:33:44,720 --> 01:33:47,720
Speaker 1: Well, I'm gonna make another prediction about Peyton Watson. I

1841
01:33:47,720 --> 01:33:51,560
think you saw the KCP thing. Memphis is working towards.

1842
01:33:52,560 --> 01:33:55,079
I think everyone's assuming by out I'm looking they preserve

1843
01:33:55,119 --> 01:33:57,760
the triple J trade a player exception. I feel like

1844
01:33:57,800 --> 01:33:59,960
this ends with Christian Brown Cam Johnson on the GRIZ

1845
01:34:00,119 --> 01:34:03,520
least KCP back in Denver. That's how they cut the cost.

1846
01:34:03,600 --> 01:34:06,119
Speaker 2: That's my guys, that would be just brutal.

1847
01:34:06,640 --> 01:34:08,760
Speaker 1: Do you think so? For Jaln Durran, do you think

1848
01:34:09,279 --> 01:34:14,159
the Walker Kessler thing transaction helped or hurt him because

1849
01:34:14,159 --> 01:34:16,560
it took the Lakers off the board, But it also

1850
01:34:17,119 --> 01:34:20,960
if Walker Kessler coming off a five game season, who

1851
01:34:20,960 --> 01:34:23,880
doesn't have as deep of an offensive bag as John

1852
01:34:23,960 --> 01:34:27,960
Duran got four for one thirty. What does that mean for? Like,

1853
01:34:28,000 --> 01:34:30,800
that should in theory give John Duran some leverage that No,

1854
01:34:30,960 --> 01:34:33,000
I go back and forth on it.

1855
01:34:32,319 --> 01:34:34,920
Speaker 2: It helps in that it taking the Lakers off the

1856
01:34:34,920 --> 01:34:38,319
board hurts. Even if that was Maybe that wasn't as

1857
01:34:38,399 --> 01:34:39,840
much of a smoke screen as it seemed, because the

1858
01:34:39,920 --> 01:34:42,439
Lakers did get Kessler, so like it's possible that they were.

1859
01:34:42,640 --> 01:34:44,359
I mean, you have to take it more seriously. I

1860
01:34:44,359 --> 01:34:45,439
didn't with the Pistons.

1861
01:34:45,600 --> 01:34:48,600
Speaker 1: I'm sorry. Where the Pistons have accepted that offer for

1862
01:34:48,680 --> 01:34:50,640
John Duran and assign and trade. If you're the Pistons,

1863
01:34:50,640 --> 01:34:52,359
do you say no? Hmm?

1864
01:34:53,520 --> 01:34:55,399
Speaker 2: I think it would have been harder for the Pistons

1865
01:34:55,399 --> 01:34:57,840
to say yes, But I I think I might have

1866
01:34:57,920 --> 01:34:58,279
if I were.

1867
01:34:59,079 --> 01:35:01,039
Speaker 1: I'm trying to think of which bigs I wouldn't have

1868
01:35:01,079 --> 01:35:05,079
traded for that package. I'm not gonna lie wemby. Is

1869
01:35:05,079 --> 01:35:08,600
that it dude's trade talents for that package? I don't

1870
01:35:09,359 --> 01:35:10,199
know at this point.

1871
01:35:10,960 --> 01:35:14,760
Speaker 2: So uh, I think I'm where I'm gonna land is

1872
01:35:15,039 --> 01:35:17,520
where I've been all along, which is all the Pistons

1873
01:35:17,560 --> 01:35:19,560
are gonna have to do is do the four to

1874
01:35:19,640 --> 01:35:22,600
one seventy seven or the whatever, the most that someone

1875
01:35:22,640 --> 01:35:23,239
else could offer.

1876
01:35:23,479 --> 01:35:24,439
Speaker 1: The Austin Reeves deal.

1877
01:35:25,279 --> 01:35:27,720
Speaker 2: Yeah, I don't think they're gonna have to match because

1878
01:35:27,720 --> 01:35:30,760
where's that coming from. I think that's just where it settles.

1879
01:35:31,520 --> 01:35:32,960
And I would just say, I would say, if you

1880
01:35:33,000 --> 01:35:35,119
made me pick over under that number, I would go under.

1881
01:35:35,199 --> 01:35:37,000
I just don't think there's any way the Pistons go

1882
01:35:37,079 --> 01:35:40,600
over what another team could pay him. There's there's no

1883
01:35:40,680 --> 01:35:43,239
sense in that. But that's well. I guess ultimately my

1884
01:35:43,239 --> 01:35:45,039
my stance on Durham hasn't changed. I think that's what

1885
01:35:45,079 --> 01:35:48,159
he should get, and that looks like what he probably

1886
01:35:48,199 --> 01:35:50,960
will get. I think you think he'll get he'll get

1887
01:35:50,960 --> 01:35:52,720
a Do you think he'll get a Kessler number? Do

1888
01:35:52,760 --> 01:35:54,680
you think he's gonna have to take four for one

1889
01:35:54,760 --> 01:35:57,840
thirty man? But I think that's more in line with

1890
01:35:57,880 --> 01:35:58,520
his value.

1891
01:35:58,920 --> 01:35:59,159
Speaker 1: I think.

1892
01:35:59,399 --> 01:35:59,840
Speaker 2: I agree.

1893
01:36:00,000 --> 01:36:01,640
Speaker 1: I think the four year max is an overpay.

1894
01:36:02,039 --> 01:36:04,399
Speaker 2: I agree, but but I think the Pistons might just

1895
01:36:04,439 --> 01:36:06,880
do it because there's threat.

1896
01:36:07,239 --> 01:36:08,640
Speaker 1: Who's the threat out there?

1897
01:36:08,680 --> 01:36:12,239
Speaker 2: There isn't one. There isn't one. There isn't one. But

1898
01:36:12,680 --> 01:36:14,640
I think that you could you if you're Detroit. You

1899
01:36:14,640 --> 01:36:17,359
could you could pretty easily talk yourself into this that

1900
01:36:17,439 --> 01:36:19,119
being a win because well, we didn't have to do

1901
01:36:19,159 --> 01:36:21,039
a fifth year and we didn't have to go another

1902
01:36:21,039 --> 01:36:23,079
one hundred million. On top of that he was eligible

1903
01:36:23,119 --> 01:36:24,039
for or whatever it was.

1904
01:36:24,479 --> 01:36:27,079
Speaker 1: Look, Detroit was able to resign Kevin Hurder. I think

1905
01:36:27,079 --> 01:36:30,319
that's really all that matters. Prince alf The Actually the

1906
01:36:30,359 --> 01:36:33,720
other thing I just realized. So you saw Kendrick Williams,

1907
01:36:34,199 --> 01:36:37,119
they declined his team option in Oklahoma City and then

1908
01:36:37,159 --> 01:36:40,000
they he resigned for five million, So you really only

1909
01:36:40,000 --> 01:36:44,279
saved two million bucks. The scenario that we outlined where

1910
01:36:44,279 --> 01:36:46,880
it was Thomas Orber and Nicola topic no longer gets

1911
01:36:46,920 --> 01:36:49,680
them out of the second apron, right, are we just

1912
01:36:50,079 --> 01:36:52,119
this is like a Loudor trade is gonna happen by

1913
01:36:52,159 --> 01:36:53,880
the deadline? Man? Is that where we're because I don't

1914
01:36:53,880 --> 01:36:55,960
think this team is going to stay in the second apron.

1915
01:36:55,960 --> 01:37:00,880
Speaker 2: Or a or a uh Jay will trade would be

1916
01:37:00,920 --> 01:37:03,520
another option, because that's if you're looking at the center depth,

1917
01:37:03,600 --> 01:37:05,880
like you know, that's part of the reason Sorber seemed

1918
01:37:05,920 --> 01:37:08,760
expendable is because you just restocked with Mara and you've

1919
01:37:08,760 --> 01:37:11,840
got Chet and you brought hardenstain back, like I like

1920
01:37:11,920 --> 01:37:13,760
Jay Will as a key piece of this, as a

1921
01:37:13,760 --> 01:37:15,279
piece of the team, like I still think he has

1922
01:37:15,319 --> 01:37:19,399
a lot of use as a shooter. But I don't know.

1923
01:37:19,600 --> 01:37:23,640
I have really flipped on this to where I don't

1924
01:37:23,640 --> 01:37:26,600
think Dort is gonna be gone. I think I'm in

1925
01:37:26,680 --> 01:37:29,279
a trade because they picked up that option, right, So yeah,

1926
01:37:29,720 --> 01:37:31,720
I think it's sober, and I think it's topicch and

1927
01:37:31,760 --> 01:37:34,039
I think you figure it out with because if you

1928
01:37:34,079 --> 01:37:36,680
did just trade Jay Will, that does get you there,

1929
01:37:36,800 --> 01:37:38,800
right if you add if you add his salary to

1930
01:37:38,880 --> 01:37:40,560
Sorber and Top, oh.

1931
01:37:40,680 --> 01:37:42,359
Speaker 1: Add those, So you need to get rid of all

1932
01:37:42,399 --> 01:37:43,119
three of those.

1933
01:37:42,920 --> 01:37:45,880
Speaker 2: Guys that a billion guys on this roster still right,

1934
01:37:45,920 --> 01:37:49,600
like you're gonna, I mean to pull it up now, so.

1935
01:37:49,640 --> 01:37:52,600
Speaker 1: They're there, Oh, this is the I'm looking up. See,

1936
01:37:52,600 --> 01:37:54,399
I'm really trying to figure out the Nix's finances here.

1937
01:37:54,399 --> 01:37:57,600
I'm on the Knicks's page. So they are into the

1938
01:37:57,600 --> 01:38:04,159
second apron right now? By I seventeen million? That can't

1939
01:38:04,159 --> 01:38:07,640
be right? What am I missing here? Who would they

1940
01:38:07,640 --> 01:38:12,960
already get off the books? If I was seventeen million

1941
01:38:13,000 --> 01:38:14,640
into the into the second apron.

1942
01:38:15,399 --> 01:38:18,840
Speaker 2: And we established that Sober at about five and Topitch

1943
01:38:18,880 --> 01:38:20,720
at a little it gets like ten and a half.

1944
01:38:21,159 --> 01:38:25,119
So it's Jay Will who makes seven almost eight. J

1945
01:38:25,319 --> 01:38:26,520
Will would get you there.

1946
01:38:26,840 --> 01:38:29,880
Speaker 1: Wow, that's just so, And so what are you left with?

1947
01:38:29,960 --> 01:38:34,039
As big as you have Mara, Hartenstein and Chet and

1948
01:38:34,119 --> 01:38:37,479
I guess Kenrich Williams would count as an It's not.

1949
01:38:37,439 --> 01:38:40,159
Speaker 2: A crazy thing to say. Jada can be a room

1950
01:38:40,239 --> 01:38:42,680
protector if that's what you need. He's done that before, so.

1951
01:38:43,159 --> 01:38:45,680
Speaker 1: Yeah, and maybe it ruined his hamstrings.

1952
01:38:45,760 --> 01:38:50,319
Speaker 2: That yeah, I mean that's kind of the only way.

1953
01:38:50,199 --> 01:38:52,479
Speaker 1: By the way, I'm with you that I don't I

1954
01:38:52,520 --> 01:38:55,159
don't think it should be lou Dort. I just looked

1955
01:38:55,199 --> 01:38:59,119
at the Kenrich Williams second deal, like I assume, okay,

1956
01:38:59,119 --> 01:39:01,760
maybe he'll come back on the minimum, but five million

1957
01:39:01,760 --> 01:39:04,479
bucks made me think, oh, perhaps there is going to

1958
01:39:04,479 --> 01:39:05,479
be a loud door trade.

1959
01:39:05,960 --> 01:39:10,439
Speaker 2: So yeah, because they're at sixteen guys with Mara and

1960
01:39:10,520 --> 01:39:13,760
Sturtz and then I don't want to list the other fourteen,

1961
01:39:13,800 --> 01:39:15,760
but like guys you'd expect to be on the team.

1962
01:39:16,680 --> 01:39:21,640
So you get down to thirteen with losing Jwill, Sorber

1963
01:39:21,840 --> 01:39:24,279
and Topicch not that you have to do all this

1964
01:39:25,079 --> 01:39:27,800
you know today and then you need to.

1965
01:39:27,800 --> 01:39:29,840
Speaker 1: Do it right now. Would actually be pretty convenient since

1966
01:39:29,840 --> 01:39:30,960
we're talking already.

1967
01:39:31,399 --> 01:39:34,359
Speaker 2: I think so yeah, I think that's still probably the

1968
01:39:34,399 --> 01:39:36,960
way it happens. And then you just play a two

1969
01:39:36,960 --> 01:39:38,920
way guy or whatever, like you mess around with the

1970
01:39:39,000 --> 01:39:40,800
last last roster spot and a half.

1971
01:39:42,039 --> 01:39:45,439
Speaker 1: I wonder just what I so Joe and Wiggins when

1972
01:39:45,439 --> 01:39:48,159
you move them, and kind of they deserved a bigger

1973
01:39:48,159 --> 01:39:50,560
opportunity they would be a more prominent part of basically

1974
01:39:50,600 --> 01:39:53,800
every other team's in the league rotation. I wonder if

1975
01:39:53,800 --> 01:39:55,479
it's a Jay Will would be the one or Lou

1976
01:39:55,520 --> 01:39:58,079
Dort and I when I know when you're getting to

1977
01:39:58,159 --> 01:40:00,720
Jay Will, it's their third big whatever, that's the one

1978
01:40:00,760 --> 01:40:03,199
that starts to get into Okay, now the finances are

1979
01:40:03,199 --> 01:40:05,800
eating into what feels like the culture of the team

1980
01:40:05,840 --> 01:40:08,079
a little bit too. I just would wonder how.

1981
01:40:08,000 --> 01:40:11,000
Speaker 2: Players feel like he saw postseason like he was a

1982
01:40:11,600 --> 01:40:13,159
They turned to him several times.

1983
01:40:12,960 --> 01:40:14,680
Speaker 1: They thought they couldn't play ched at center against the

1984
01:40:14,720 --> 01:40:16,760
Spurs basically, so Jay Will got a ton of time there.

1985
01:40:16,760 --> 01:40:18,279
So I would just be curious. I would love to

1986
01:40:18,359 --> 01:40:20,800
have a candid conversation about like how the players feel

1987
01:40:20,840 --> 01:40:23,039
when it's it just it feels like it's easier to

1988
01:40:23,039 --> 01:40:25,680
say goodbye to a Joe or Wiggins based off Will.

1989
01:40:25,680 --> 01:40:28,399
They were just never gonna have the roles maybe they

1990
01:40:28,520 --> 01:40:32,359
want or deserve and then not to diminish the value

1991
01:40:32,359 --> 01:40:34,600
of sober or topic, but you don't know what they

1992
01:40:34,640 --> 01:40:37,479
are yet. They weren't integral parts of the team because

1993
01:40:37,479 --> 01:40:41,399
of injuries and uh testicular cancer for topic this past year.

1994
01:40:42,520 --> 01:40:45,359
So it's I'm not trying to say everyone's disposable, but

1995
01:40:46,399 --> 01:40:49,560
Jalen Williams, Jay Will or lou Dort going out to

1996
01:40:49,640 --> 01:40:51,199
be the one where it's okay, this is kind of

1997
01:40:51,199 --> 01:40:52,000
a culture test.

1998
01:40:52,560 --> 01:40:55,359
Speaker 2: Yeah, I think you're right about that, but I just

1999
01:40:55,399 --> 01:40:59,039
don't know what how else you're Do you agree.

2000
01:40:58,760 --> 01:41:01,079
Speaker 1: That they're gonna get out of the second apron at

2001
01:41:01,079 --> 01:41:03,600
some point, whether it's mid season or this offseason.

2002
01:41:04,399 --> 01:41:07,640
Speaker 2: I don't feel like you come this far without finishing,

2003
01:41:08,079 --> 01:41:11,239
you know, Like I don't if you're if you're gonna

2004
01:41:11,279 --> 01:41:13,199
move Wiggins and Joe.

2005
01:41:15,119 --> 01:41:17,680
Speaker 1: Save like two hundred million dollars in tax payments.

2006
01:41:17,399 --> 01:41:19,439
Speaker 2: Right, Yeah, they've saved a lot of money, But like

2007
01:41:19,800 --> 01:41:21,560
you know, well, do you what do you think? I

2008
01:41:21,680 --> 01:41:23,600
I think I think you finished the job. I think

2009
01:41:23,640 --> 01:41:25,800
if you've. If you've, you may as well get the

2010
01:41:25,800 --> 01:41:27,000
full benefit, right.

2011
01:41:26,840 --> 01:41:29,000
Speaker 1: Of Yeah, I think they're going to. I was just

2012
01:41:29,000 --> 01:41:32,479
curious whether, like your stand I did the Kendrick Williams

2013
01:41:32,560 --> 01:41:34,640
change your Oh if they're maybe they just wanted to

2014
01:41:34,680 --> 01:41:36,560
lower their tax bill by a quarter of a billion

2015
01:41:36,600 --> 01:41:38,119
dollars and they're gonna call they're called to.

2016
01:41:38,439 --> 01:41:40,840
Speaker 2: I mean, actually, to be honest, I was surprised that

2017
01:41:40,880 --> 01:41:43,760
they brought well, and most of me was surprised that

2018
01:41:43,800 --> 01:41:46,560
Williams was brought back at all, just because.

2019
01:41:46,520 --> 01:41:48,479
Speaker 1: I was kind of hoping the Knicks we're gonna like

2020
01:41:48,560 --> 01:41:50,520
I would rather have him than Kavon Looney and.

2021
01:41:51,600 --> 01:41:53,600
Speaker 2: There there to your point is like, well, this guy

2022
01:41:53,680 --> 01:41:56,920
is way too important to our culture to just send away,

2023
01:41:57,079 --> 01:42:00,640
you know. Yeah, But but I and I would feel

2024
01:42:00,640 --> 01:42:02,760
that way about Jay will because he's always in the

2025
01:42:02,800 --> 01:42:05,399
postgame interview scrums, you know, and all that stuff, Like

2026
01:42:05,439 --> 01:42:07,239
he seems pretty important.

2027
01:42:08,760 --> 01:42:11,840
Speaker 1: Yeah, I mean you also you get rid of him,

2028
01:42:11,920 --> 01:42:14,399
you are, but like there is no because Kendrick Williams

2029
01:42:14,479 --> 01:42:18,319
wasn't playing a ton last year that you've now decided Okay,

2030
01:42:18,359 --> 01:42:21,079
one of these younger bigs needs to be good.

2031
01:42:22,680 --> 01:42:25,960
Speaker 2: Yeah, which could happen, Like, you don't if you draft.

2032
01:42:25,720 --> 01:42:28,159
Speaker 1: Mary by the way, one of these younger bigs. If

2033
01:42:28,159 --> 01:42:30,039
Sowerber's gone as well, it's just mar I don't know

2034
01:42:30,079 --> 01:42:30,920
who I'm talking about.

2035
01:42:30,920 --> 01:42:33,039
Speaker 2: How shouldn't you expect to be able to get third

2036
01:42:33,039 --> 01:42:35,520
big minutes out of the number twelve pick right? Like?

2037
01:42:35,560 --> 01:42:38,079
I feel like I feel like that's a reasonable expectation.

2038
01:42:38,640 --> 01:42:40,680
Speaker 1: I'm sure the Warriors thought they'd get third big minutes

2039
01:42:40,720 --> 01:42:42,880
out of James Wise minute number two? And uh how

2040
01:42:42,920 --> 01:42:43,880
that pan Hounds.

2041
01:42:46,760 --> 01:42:49,359
Speaker 2: He I think I we shouldn't talk about James Wiseman.

2042
01:42:49,800 --> 01:42:50,880
Speaker 1: Is there any other.

2043
01:42:51,119 --> 01:42:52,520
Speaker 2: Blurb that maybe he was going to be back in

2044
01:42:52,560 --> 01:42:53,600
the league, which would be fun?

2045
01:42:54,520 --> 01:42:56,920
Speaker 1: I mean, I'm I wouldn't root against him.

2046
01:42:57,880 --> 01:43:01,039
Speaker 2: Nod is rooting against him? Sifly you have a personal

2047
01:43:01,079 --> 01:43:02,000
beef with James Wise?

2048
01:43:02,039 --> 01:43:04,600
Speaker 1: You anything else that you want, any questions you have?

2049
01:43:04,680 --> 01:43:06,880
I thought, but I thought the Pacers, the Kelly Bridge

2050
01:43:06,960 --> 01:43:08,920
and you're signing, I thought that was a good one

2051
01:43:09,079 --> 01:43:13,000
by them. Yep, I've been think that's solid. Oh there's

2052
01:43:13,479 --> 01:43:15,840
do you do we need to walk back? Yeah, I

2053
01:43:15,840 --> 01:43:17,640
mean we need to walk it back. We have an

2054
01:43:17,680 --> 01:43:20,920
apology issue. We were wrong about mutual options. They are

2055
01:43:20,920 --> 01:43:24,760
apparently legal, and we are sorry. Yep, I think that's

2056
01:43:24,880 --> 01:43:30,439
enough we in our defense. They're the word itself I

2057
01:43:30,439 --> 01:43:32,600
think does not appear in the CBA, but there's also

2058
01:43:32,680 --> 01:43:36,439
no rule specifically against it. I still think they're stupid.

2059
01:43:37,439 --> 01:43:38,560
It doesn't make sense to me.

2060
01:43:38,600 --> 01:43:40,840
Speaker 2: I think just the player option with a partial guarantee

2061
01:43:40,920 --> 01:43:43,279
kind of gets a better gets you what you want

2062
01:43:43,279 --> 01:43:46,359
out of that. But yeah, they they sort of exist.

2063
01:43:46,760 --> 01:43:49,960
And this term has been pulled from the ether to

2064
01:43:50,039 --> 01:43:54,439
describe a situation where both player and team would have

2065
01:43:54,520 --> 01:44:01,199
to opt in to pick up the option, and if

2066
01:44:01,239 --> 01:44:04,720
one or the other says no, thank you, then it

2067
01:44:04,800 --> 01:44:05,800
is not exercised.

2068
01:44:05,960 --> 01:44:08,880
Speaker 1: Is that the simplest way to put it? I just whatever, Yeah,

2069
01:44:08,960 --> 01:44:11,760
I is it? Who do you think it's better for?

2070
01:44:14,279 --> 01:44:15,119
Speaker 2: Uh?

2071
01:44:15,159 --> 01:44:18,520
Speaker 1: It's mutually beneficial. Dan by definition.

2072
01:44:19,960 --> 01:44:22,880
Speaker 2: Is who's it better for? I don't know, because it

2073
01:44:22,960 --> 01:44:26,560
takes both. What's the situation? So if the player plays

2074
01:44:26,600 --> 01:44:29,479
really well UH and does not want to pick the

2075
01:44:29,520 --> 01:44:31,560
option up, it benefits the player because he can go

2076
01:44:31,600 --> 01:44:34,560
get more money. And if a player plays really shitty,

2077
01:44:34,880 --> 01:44:37,560
he just loses money because the team does not pick

2078
01:44:37,560 --> 01:44:39,760
the option. Up and he's on. He's a free agent

2079
01:44:39,800 --> 01:44:43,399
after a bad year. So I wonder if maybe this

2080
01:44:43,520 --> 01:44:45,279
is something that we will not see used very much

2081
01:44:45,319 --> 01:44:47,640
because I don't see who it's. It's not like a

2082
01:44:48,239 --> 01:44:50,720
they both benefit. I guess it's it's like the least

2083
01:44:50,800 --> 01:44:52,199
committed commitment you can have.

2084
01:44:54,880 --> 01:44:57,159
Speaker 1: So what would this was? The thing says it's in

2085
01:44:57,239 --> 01:45:00,840
the title Ken this offseason? GA any crazy or what

2086
01:45:00,880 --> 01:45:04,640
would it take? Not non Lebron division. I still feel

2087
01:45:04,680 --> 01:45:06,680
like he's just stringing us along for a Golden State

2088
01:45:06,760 --> 01:45:11,520
or Cleveland signing. What what could? There are no wrong

2089
01:45:11,600 --> 01:45:14,720
answers here because of everything that we've deemed that so

2090
01:45:14,800 --> 01:45:17,600
many of these moves we just did not even see coming.

2091
01:45:17,800 --> 01:45:23,439
Speaker 2: Yeah. Uh. Jalen Duran takes the qualifying offer uh. And

2092
01:45:23,479 --> 01:45:27,399
then Jason Tatum becomes a very prolific twitch streamer, I

2093
01:45:27,399 --> 01:45:30,119
think because there's a void in the Boston market for

2094
01:45:30,159 --> 01:45:30,960
a twitch streamer.

2095
01:45:31,159 --> 01:45:34,279
Speaker 1: I was gonna ask, like, do the Celtics take calls

2096
01:45:34,279 --> 01:45:37,199
on Jason Tatum? There was the Chris Mannox reported I

2097
01:45:37,239 --> 01:45:39,399
think was Chris mann X that they've actually had to

2098
01:45:39,399 --> 01:45:41,720
turn down calls for Jason Tatum. But I understand other

2099
01:45:41,760 --> 01:45:47,159
teams looking at the Jaylen Brown trade and saying, well, yeah, yeah,

2100
01:45:47,640 --> 01:45:52,119
circle yeah. I think Niccoli okic. He can sign it

2101
01:45:52,119 --> 01:45:54,600
at any point before next year. But Niccolio is going

2102
01:45:54,640 --> 01:45:57,960
into next season without an extension would be a like

2103
01:45:58,039 --> 01:45:59,159
that would be wild to me.

2104
01:45:59,279 --> 01:46:00,760
Speaker 2: Yep, that be a bad one.

2105
01:46:00,880 --> 01:46:02,760
Speaker 1: I'm not sure if he listens to this podcast. My

2106
01:46:02,800 --> 01:46:05,079
guess is he would. But I'm sure you remember me,

2107
01:46:05,199 --> 01:46:06,920
like or you probably don't remember, like a month or

2108
01:46:06,920 --> 01:46:09,359
two ago, I advocated that he should absolutely not sign

2109
01:46:09,359 --> 01:46:10,319
an extension too.

2110
01:46:10,399 --> 01:46:13,680
Speaker 2: I do remember that. I do remember that Draymond just

2111
01:46:13,800 --> 01:46:16,560
leaves and it was all big trick, like he just

2112
01:46:16,600 --> 01:46:20,199
opted out because he wanted to play somewhere else. Yeah,

2113
01:46:20,239 --> 01:46:24,680
I don't know. This is the question is worth asking

2114
01:46:24,720 --> 01:46:28,560
because this has been pretty great so far from from

2115
01:46:28,600 --> 01:46:29,840
a transactional perspective.

2116
01:46:30,079 --> 01:46:33,560
Speaker 1: Do you remember last off season when Sham's reported in

2117
01:46:33,640 --> 01:46:36,840
advance of it that executives expected most craziest.

2118
01:46:37,159 --> 01:46:38,680
Speaker 2: Yeah, this has.

2119
01:46:38,560 --> 01:46:41,840
Speaker 1: Been the most craziest off season that I can remember,

2120
01:46:42,159 --> 01:46:46,000
And unlike the mutual option thing, still I still firmly

2121
01:46:46,039 --> 01:46:49,039
believe that most craziest is not the proper terminology.

2122
01:46:49,079 --> 01:46:50,479
Speaker 2: I'm never going to relent on that one.

2123
01:46:50,600 --> 01:46:53,079
Speaker 1: No, no, it's but it's now the only accepted terminology

2124
01:46:53,119 --> 01:46:56,359
around these parts in my homebore opinion. Oh my god,

2125
01:46:56,399 --> 01:46:58,840
what if Draymond goes to Cleveland with Lebron? Is that

2126
01:46:58,920 --> 01:47:00,479
a possibility? I mean, if you're will to take a

2127
01:47:00,560 --> 01:47:05,239
the minimum, anything's a possibility. Sham's wasn't wrong. He was

2128
01:47:05,319 --> 01:47:06,920
just early. No, he was wrong. He said it was

2129
01:47:06,920 --> 01:47:11,079
going to be less offseason. He was wrong. I'm excited.

2130
01:47:11,119 --> 01:47:12,439
And by the way, why so on the chat, I'm

2131
01:47:12,479 --> 01:47:15,359
excited about the Eastern Conference next season. It's I was

2132
01:47:15,439 --> 01:47:18,039
just going six teams that could probably talk themselves into

2133
01:47:18,079 --> 01:47:19,359
winning the title, right I think.

2134
01:47:19,199 --> 01:47:21,159
Speaker 2: It's more than that. Oh well, I was gonna say

2135
01:47:21,159 --> 01:47:24,199
winning coming out of the East, because let's just it,

2136
01:47:24,199 --> 01:47:35,439
it's New York, Boston, Philly, Toronto, Detroit and Cleveland. And

2137
01:47:35,479 --> 01:47:39,359
then you're in the Atlanta, Orlando, Charlotte teer, Miami, oh Man, Orlando,

2138
01:47:39,439 --> 01:47:41,800
and Miami's wrong, but it probably has the honest and

2139
01:47:41,840 --> 01:47:44,039
believes that it could come out of the East. Right now,

2140
01:47:44,079 --> 01:47:48,119
Miami or Orlando, we got like, who wins more games?

2141
01:47:48,560 --> 01:47:50,159
Speaker 1: Who's just who's more likely to come out the East

2142
01:47:50,199 --> 01:47:52,439
next season? I think it might be Orlando, We're likely

2143
01:47:52,439 --> 01:47:53,720
to come out of the East.

2144
01:47:54,479 --> 01:47:57,800
Speaker 2: Right now, Orlando, if Miami gets another body or two

2145
01:47:57,800 --> 01:48:01,239
in there for cheap, maybe I changed that, but like, yeah,

2146
01:48:01,239 --> 01:48:04,319
I mean you could basically go down the top ten

2147
01:48:04,680 --> 01:48:07,600
in the conference. Indiana, we didn't say Indiana, Indiana, My God,

2148
01:48:07,680 --> 01:48:10,039
get me right back in the mix. So basically everyone

2149
01:48:10,039 --> 01:48:15,279
but Washington, Brooklyn, Milwaukee, Chicago, and Charlotte eleven. Clearly, that's

2150
01:48:15,279 --> 01:48:17,600
eleven teams in Chicago was not going to be bad,

2151
01:48:17,680 --> 01:48:20,359
and I think Milwaukee might even be like thirty something wins.

2152
01:48:20,399 --> 01:48:24,199
Like there's I mean, the top eleven in the East

2153
01:48:24,239 --> 01:48:27,720
I think could all credibly believe themselves to be like

2154
01:48:27,800 --> 01:48:30,199
top four, and then I think at least nine or

2155
01:48:30,239 --> 01:48:32,039
eight or nine of those could say like where we

2156
01:48:32,079 --> 01:48:34,720
could win the conference. I think that's like it's it's

2157
01:48:34,840 --> 01:48:38,920
I cannot remember a season at this point looking like

2158
01:48:39,039 --> 01:48:41,840
having more potential conference winners than the East.

2159
01:48:41,880 --> 01:48:44,960
Speaker 1: For next year, it is going to be the best

2160
01:48:45,000 --> 01:48:46,560
possible blood bath.

2161
01:48:47,760 --> 01:48:50,720
Speaker 2: Oh yeah, absolutely. This is like the when when the

2162
01:48:50,800 --> 01:48:53,880
league wants parody like this is like do we have two?

2163
01:48:54,039 --> 01:48:57,399
Like this is this is apex parody.

2164
01:48:57,720 --> 01:49:00,680
Speaker 1: Here's a question, do we get a ninth as of

2165
01:49:00,720 --> 01:49:01,960
right now, if he had a break, do we get

2166
01:49:02,000 --> 01:49:05,880
a ninth consecutive different champion. So can't be it can't

2167
01:49:05,920 --> 01:49:08,239
be the thunder Oh.

2168
01:49:08,079 --> 01:49:11,399
Speaker 2: No, because I think one of the last eight champions

2169
01:49:11,439 --> 01:49:17,800
is too likely to win it. Don't be scared. Just

2170
01:49:17,800 --> 01:49:20,199
just buckle up and enjoy it. The East is by

2171
01:49:20,239 --> 01:49:22,520
far the more interesting conference next year.

2172
01:49:22,920 --> 01:49:26,800
Speaker 1: I'm so I'm normally not this excited for next season

2173
01:49:26,840 --> 01:49:29,039
this early into the offseason. I'm entering the point whereas

2174
01:49:29,079 --> 01:49:30,920
I need a break, and I definitely need a break,

2175
01:49:30,960 --> 01:49:33,439
but I'm like, no, like I want, like, I'm so

2176
01:49:33,560 --> 01:49:35,680
excited to watch what happens in the East.

2177
01:49:35,640 --> 01:49:38,359
Speaker 2: Or early October. I think we're going to be like

2178
01:49:38,359 --> 01:49:41,479
bouncing off the walls because we was like what, who knows?

2179
01:49:41,600 --> 01:49:43,399
Speaker 1: I mean like we just asked what could happen? That

2180
01:49:43,399 --> 01:49:45,479
would be like what is something we just didn't even

2181
01:49:45,479 --> 01:49:47,680
think about because we could have said, well, what if

2182
01:49:47,720 --> 01:49:50,720
Denver trades Jamal Murray or Aaron Gordon. That's maybe there's

2183
01:49:50,760 --> 01:49:52,800
a surprise destination, but that would be within the realm

2184
01:49:52,800 --> 01:49:55,920
of possibility. It's now everything just feels like it's on

2185
01:49:56,000 --> 01:49:58,079
the table. It's like, what if Luca takes stock of

2186
01:49:58,079 --> 01:50:01,640
the Lakers off season and says wey, I see.

2187
01:50:01,439 --> 01:50:03,359
Speaker 2: A tail wagging behind you. One of the dogs is

2188
01:50:03,399 --> 01:50:03,840
on board.

2189
01:50:04,039 --> 01:50:07,800
Speaker 1: There were two of them in here before. They were like, oh, Luca,

2190
01:50:07,840 --> 01:50:11,439
dont just trade demand talk? Yeah? Way in Uh do

2191
01:50:11,479 --> 01:50:13,800
you have anything else that I didn't plan on going

2192
01:50:13,840 --> 01:50:16,399
for this long, but there was. There's too much happen

2193
01:50:16,399 --> 01:50:17,560
to Yeah.

2194
01:50:17,640 --> 01:50:20,359
Speaker 2: Thanks everybody for listening and for watching. Remember to rate, review,

2195
01:50:20,359 --> 01:50:22,520
and subscribe, Tell your friends, tell your enemies.

2196
01:50:22,720 --> 01:50:23,079
Speaker 1: Uh.

2197
01:50:23,600 --> 01:50:26,239
Speaker 2: Best way to support the podcast please check out Patreon

2198
01:50:26,239 --> 01:50:29,079
dot com slash Hardwood Knocks NBA. Get all our episodes

2199
01:50:29,119 --> 01:50:32,000
at free, get a couple bonus episodes a month. Discounts

2200
01:50:32,000 --> 01:50:34,319
on merch. There may or may not be some very exciting,

2201
01:50:34,399 --> 01:50:36,279
cool new merch that we're in the I don't know

2202
01:50:36,359 --> 01:50:38,880
the bait. What's before beta testing. We're just just in

2203
01:50:38,960 --> 01:50:41,239
the very early stages.

2204
01:50:40,800 --> 01:50:43,560
Speaker 1: Of attention before beta. I'm gonna have to look that up.

2205
01:50:43,600 --> 01:50:46,199
Speaker 2: I don't know the Greek alphabet well enough alpha, but

2206
01:50:46,520 --> 01:50:50,720
I think I've never heard of an alpha.

2207
01:50:49,319 --> 01:50:51,399
Speaker 1: Test, like to find R and D should we call it?

2208
01:50:51,439 --> 01:50:51,800
We're an R.

2209
01:50:51,880 --> 01:50:53,079
Speaker 2: We're in the R and D face. We're in the

2210
01:50:53,159 --> 01:50:54,279
R and D phase. We're looking.

2211
01:50:54,680 --> 01:50:57,119
Speaker 1: It's received grants, stamp of approval.

2212
01:50:57,560 --> 01:51:00,760
Speaker 2: It's very cool. It's very cool at all be excited

2213
01:51:00,760 --> 01:51:03,960
about that. Discounts on that are available to Patreon members

2214
01:51:03,960 --> 01:51:06,359
as his access to our discord. Check out the links

2215
01:51:06,399 --> 01:51:08,960
in the YouTube and podcast description. As always, shouts to

2216
01:51:08,960 --> 01:51:11,039
Frank Milakina and apologies to Jared Allen