WEBVTT 1 00:00:00.400 --> 00:00:02.720 Oh hey, this is not a normal episode. This is 2 00:00:02.720 --> 00:00:05.639 a bit of a bonus episode this week. Obviously we 3 00:00:05.719 --> 00:00:08.640 have Foraging Ecology with the a Lexus Nicole Nelson is up. 4 00:00:08.679 --> 00:00:10.880 You can go back and listen to this Cicadology episode 5 00:00:10.919 --> 00:00:13.400 if you are inundated with cicadas. But I wanted to 6 00:00:13.480 --> 00:00:15.439 also in this feed this week, we're going to do 7 00:00:15.480 --> 00:00:18.239 something a little different. We wanted to share an episode 8 00:00:18.280 --> 00:00:20.559 of a podcast called Real Good. If you're like, What's 9 00:00:20.559 --> 00:00:21.640 Real Good? Never heard of it? 10 00:00:21.760 --> 00:00:23.359 You're about to if you like so. 11 00:00:23.519 --> 00:00:25.440 Real Good is a show that started last year at 12 00:00:25.440 --> 00:00:28.760 the beginning of COVID to highlight nonprofits doing work on 13 00:00:28.800 --> 00:00:31.559 the ground to help with the pandemic. But the big 14 00:00:31.640 --> 00:00:34.759 message of that whole first season was that most of 15 00:00:34.799 --> 00:00:38.039 the problems people are facing in COVID were not new 16 00:00:38.280 --> 00:00:42.240 when the pandemic hit. Their intersectional problems concerning race and 17 00:00:42.320 --> 00:00:44.880 class and gender and a lot more so. The second 18 00:00:44.960 --> 00:00:47.399 season just came out and it's broadening out a bit 19 00:00:47.439 --> 00:00:51.359 to focus on the people fighting systemic issues that COVID highlighted, 20 00:00:51.600 --> 00:00:55.000 and guests this season talk about critical issues in diversity, equity, 21 00:00:55.039 --> 00:00:59.320 and inclusion, including recognizing implicit bias and the need for 22 00:00:59.359 --> 00:01:02.439 affordable health housing and equal access to mental health services, 23 00:01:02.479 --> 00:01:04.879 all stuff that we care about. This episode is called 24 00:01:05.040 --> 00:01:07.840 just Admitting it Isn't Enough with Linden Negron, who was 25 00:01:07.879 --> 00:01:10.239 a product director at Bias Sync. I think you're gonna 26 00:01:10.280 --> 00:01:13.359 like it. More information on her in the intro. So, yes, 27 00:01:13.400 --> 00:01:16.200 you're about to hear an episode of that podcast in 28 00:01:16.239 --> 00:01:19.239 our feed and it is with Linda Negron, a program 29 00:01:19.280 --> 00:01:22.760 director at an anti implicit bias training organization. So if 30 00:01:22.760 --> 00:01:24.920 you like what you hear, you can listen and subscribe 31 00:01:25.000 --> 00:01:27.719 to Real Good the podcast wherever you get your podcasts. 32 00:01:27.760 --> 00:01:35.920 Okay, enjoy. This is Real Good by us Bank, a 33 00:01:36.000 --> 00:01:37.719 podcast about helpers. 34 00:01:39.319 --> 00:01:42.680 It's okay to say that you've made mistakes in the past, 35 00:01:42.760 --> 00:01:47.319 like it's okay to accept someone else's feedback and be better. 36 00:01:47.719 --> 00:01:51.040 It would involve you acknowledging the fact that you are 37 00:01:51.040 --> 00:01:53.040 not perfect, that you are human. 38 00:01:54.640 --> 00:01:58.400 I'm faith Dally. This show was born out of the 39 00:01:58.480 --> 00:02:02.680 coronavirus crisis. In our efforts to understand where work needed 40 00:02:02.719 --> 00:02:05.719 to be done to help communities in need during the pandemic, 41 00:02:06.280 --> 00:02:09.479 we learned that the issues they were struggling with didn't 42 00:02:09.680 --> 00:02:13.919 crop up during COVID. They are long standing concerns with 43 00:02:14.120 --> 00:02:19.680 roots in racial disparity, socioeconomic opportunity gaps, and so much more. 44 00:02:20.520 --> 00:02:23.120 We're here to give you a chance to meet those 45 00:02:23.159 --> 00:02:27.039 who are fighting against inequality. They're people who span a 46 00:02:27.120 --> 00:02:31.080 wide range of fields and enact very different missions, but 47 00:02:31.199 --> 00:02:34.319 one thing remains the same for everyone you're going to meet. 48 00:02:34.759 --> 00:02:42.439 They're helpers. They're doing real good. This week, our guest 49 00:02:42.520 --> 00:02:47.719 is Linda Negron, product director at Bias SYNC. It's an 50 00:02:47.840 --> 00:02:51.599 uncomfortable thing to talk about, but people tend to favor 51 00:02:51.800 --> 00:02:55.599 people like them. When we can see part of ourselves, 52 00:02:55.639 --> 00:02:59.719 whether it's physically represented or a part of their lived 53 00:03:00.000 --> 00:03:05.000 experience that we recognize, we often see people like us favorably. 54 00:03:05.520 --> 00:03:08.280 And when I say we, I don't just mean you 55 00:03:08.360 --> 00:03:12.599 listening and meet talking. I mean everyone human beings in general. 56 00:03:13.319 --> 00:03:16.879 But when structures put in place favor one type of 57 00:03:16.879 --> 00:03:21.400 person over another, what happens then? Well, just look at 58 00:03:21.439 --> 00:03:26.080 the workplaces all across America. Structures favoring predominantly white and 59 00:03:26.240 --> 00:03:33.000 predominantly male workers have created boardrooms over represented by white men, 60 00:03:32.680 --> 00:03:36.680 and there's a trickle down effect from there. Those people 61 00:03:36.919 --> 00:03:39.639 tend to put employees like them in position to be 62 00:03:39.719 --> 00:03:43.439 the next crop of leaders keeping the wheel turning in 63 00:03:43.599 --> 00:03:47.879 the corporate landscape. Today, three point two percent of senior 64 00:03:47.919 --> 00:03:51.280 management jobs are held by Black Americans as opposed to 65 00:03:51.319 --> 00:03:54.240 the thirteen point two percent of the population as a whole. 66 00:03:54.840 --> 00:03:57.759 Women make up more than half of our population and 67 00:03:57.840 --> 00:04:02.039 forty seven percent of support positions, but only occupy twenty 68 00:04:02.159 --> 00:04:06.280 three percent of management roles. There are certainly more stats 69 00:04:06.319 --> 00:04:08.719 we could throw at you, but I think you get it. 70 00:04:09.479 --> 00:04:13.159 But it doesn't have to be this way. Linda Negron's 71 00:04:13.199 --> 00:04:17.199 work recognizing how our brains are wired and how to 72 00:04:17.279 --> 00:04:21.680 scientifically approach our own biases is training business leaders how 73 00:04:21.720 --> 00:04:28.519 to create offices that look more like the world around us. Linda, 74 00:04:28.720 --> 00:04:34.160 when people ask you what you do, what do you say, Well. 75 00:04:33.959 --> 00:04:36.399 It depends on who it is, because if it's a 76 00:04:36.439 --> 00:04:39.600 stranger on the street, I say I'm in tech, and 77 00:04:39.879 --> 00:04:42.519 you know, the eyes glaze over and they stop asking questions. 78 00:04:43.879 --> 00:04:47.920 But normally I say I'm I'm a director of product 79 00:04:48.000 --> 00:04:53.240 or head of product at a social enterprise startup. 80 00:04:53.639 --> 00:04:57.240 So what we're trying so all of that avoids the 81 00:04:57.360 --> 00:04:59.439 juicy word, though, I mean, do you ever think of 82 00:04:59.480 --> 00:05:01.319 saying you know what I work in bias. 83 00:05:01.959 --> 00:05:05.279 Yes, I do that when we jump into the actual 84 00:05:05.279 --> 00:05:09.720 details around it. But I find that unconscious bias has 85 00:05:09.759 --> 00:05:12.759 created so many like triggers for a lot of people, 86 00:05:12.800 --> 00:05:14.759 whether it's on the far left or the far right, 87 00:05:15.160 --> 00:05:18.360 and myself being far left. It is very funny seeing 88 00:05:18.399 --> 00:05:21.600 how people that I agree with politically even get very 89 00:05:21.639 --> 00:05:26.079 riled up about unconscious bias training in corporations where you know, 90 00:05:26.240 --> 00:05:30.360 it's this idea of it's either unconscious virus training or 91 00:05:30.560 --> 00:05:34.360 the full blown anti racism, anti sexism training that actually 92 00:05:34.399 --> 00:05:37.360 gets into the nitty gritty details of the history and 93 00:05:37.600 --> 00:05:41.079 the knowledge of institutional oppression and all of that. Whereas 94 00:05:41.160 --> 00:05:43.759 a lot of people tend to write a lot of 95 00:05:43.959 --> 00:05:47.360 activists I've heard say that unconscious bias can be a 96 00:05:47.399 --> 00:05:51.360 cop out because it's this fluffy Oh everyone has it, 97 00:05:51.439 --> 00:05:53.720 so you know, just be cognizant of it and don't 98 00:05:53.720 --> 00:05:55.600 get too hard on yourself for it, And they don't 99 00:05:55.600 --> 00:05:59.279 think it's going far enough. My argument is if we 100 00:05:59.319 --> 00:06:02.199 don't start unconscious bias, we're never going to get anywhere. 101 00:06:03.000 --> 00:06:07.279 So it so before we I mean, there's so much 102 00:06:07.319 --> 00:06:10.279 to dig into here I and I want to find 103 00:06:10.319 --> 00:06:13.399 out how you came to this. But first, because we're 104 00:06:13.399 --> 00:06:15.600 going to be using these words, can you tell me 105 00:06:16.240 --> 00:06:19.600 what how you define bias and how you define unconscious 106 00:06:19.600 --> 00:06:20.639 bias exactly? 107 00:06:20.720 --> 00:06:27.480 Okay, so bias is in Layman's terms, it's this. So 108 00:06:27.720 --> 00:06:33.879 the brain process is something like five I don't want 109 00:06:33.879 --> 00:06:36.160 to actually say incorrect stats, but let's give it five 110 00:06:36.240 --> 00:06:39.879 hundred bits of data per second. But consciously we can 111 00:06:39.920 --> 00:06:44.399 only process about ten of them. And so if the 112 00:06:44.439 --> 00:06:46.920 brain is processing, you know, let's say five hundred bits 113 00:06:46.920 --> 00:06:50.240 a second, and you can only consciously handle ten bits 114 00:06:50.279 --> 00:06:53.839 a second, the other, you know, four hundred and ninety 115 00:06:54.120 --> 00:06:56.959 is happening unconsciously in the back of your brain. So 116 00:06:57.240 --> 00:07:00.199 the human prefrontal cortex can only handle so much much 117 00:07:00.199 --> 00:07:04.279 stimulus that's coming in at once, or stimuli there's you know, 118 00:07:04.439 --> 00:07:07.040 if I'm just looking at this screen, I'm thinking about 119 00:07:07.079 --> 00:07:10.199 what I'm saying, I'm looking at your facial expression, I'm 120 00:07:10.399 --> 00:07:14.040 you know, hearing sounds in the background. I can hear 121 00:07:14.079 --> 00:07:16.839 my boyfriend making breakfast in the kitchen. But all of 122 00:07:16.879 --> 00:07:19.600 these things, some of them are getting process unconsciously because 123 00:07:19.600 --> 00:07:21.720 it's not at the forefront of my mind. What I'm 124 00:07:21.839 --> 00:07:26.439 specifically focusing on is my conversation with you, so consciously 125 00:07:26.519 --> 00:07:30.079 I'm able to handle this conversation. Everything else that's coming 126 00:07:30.120 --> 00:07:34.639 in is being processed unconsciously in the back of the brain, 127 00:07:34.800 --> 00:07:37.240 so I actually don't know how it's being processed. My 128 00:07:37.279 --> 00:07:40.759 brain is just storing it away because that's how biologically 129 00:07:40.839 --> 00:07:46.040 we have developed to handle as much process because imagine 130 00:07:46.040 --> 00:07:48.759 if you try to process every little thing that you 131 00:07:48.800 --> 00:07:52.439 were seeing or hearing all at once, it's impossible shorts 132 00:07:52.800 --> 00:07:58.920 So this is an evolutionary tactic to avoid short circuiting 133 00:07:58.959 --> 00:07:59.519 pretty much. 134 00:08:00.879 --> 00:08:04.480 So that's the unconscious part. What's the bias part. How 135 00:08:04.519 --> 00:08:05.199 does that manage it? 136 00:08:05.319 --> 00:08:09.360 So your brain automatically starts creating shortcuts to not short circuit. 137 00:08:09.600 --> 00:08:13.439 So if an example from you know, primordial times, like 138 00:08:13.560 --> 00:08:16.759 back in the day historic if I knew that a 139 00:08:16.759 --> 00:08:19.839 specific kind of plant wasn't good for me, if I 140 00:08:19.879 --> 00:08:22.439 would eat it, and I would, you know, either get 141 00:08:22.480 --> 00:08:25.279 poisoned or get really sick. I would just know that, 142 00:08:25.360 --> 00:08:27.160 So every time I would see it, I would think 143 00:08:27.160 --> 00:08:29.040 that's not a good plant, that I should not eat 144 00:08:29.079 --> 00:08:34.039 that plant. Over time, you start to develop unconscious by 145 00:08:34.240 --> 00:08:37.919 like unconscious bias to actually say Okay, well I should 146 00:08:37.960 --> 00:08:40.720 avoid that plant because it looks exactly like the other plant, 147 00:08:41.000 --> 00:08:45.120 so therefore I shouldn't have that plant. And it's just 148 00:08:45.240 --> 00:08:49.000 this shorts. It's just like what we call mental shortcuts. Again, 149 00:08:49.480 --> 00:08:51.440 so much of it is unconscious that we're not even 150 00:08:51.480 --> 00:08:54.559 cognitive like doing it cognitively. We're just doing it. Our 151 00:08:54.600 --> 00:08:56.919 brain is doing it for us. We just know certain 152 00:08:56.919 --> 00:08:59.279 things like there. It's a lot of people call it 153 00:08:59.320 --> 00:09:01.879 like the gut feeling. Why did you avoid one option 154 00:09:02.039 --> 00:09:04.639 versus another? You just say, well, that one I don't 155 00:09:04.639 --> 00:09:06.759 know why I avoided it, but I'm assuming it's because 156 00:09:06.759 --> 00:09:09.559 it reminded me of this other thing, which I know 157 00:09:09.679 --> 00:09:15.039 isn't good for me. And that's just how evolutionary, evolutionarily 158 00:09:15.519 --> 00:09:19.240 we developed to again, not short circuit. If there's so 159 00:09:19.320 --> 00:09:23.679 much stimulus coming, it's sufficient exactly, So you just it's 160 00:09:23.720 --> 00:09:28.120 again mental shortcuts to avoid things that you know aren't 161 00:09:28.120 --> 00:09:30.960 good for you, or to go to things that are 162 00:09:31.039 --> 00:09:35.039 good for you and are or are familiar are familiary. Yeah, 163 00:09:35.080 --> 00:09:37.759 But again, like good and bad is money, because it's 164 00:09:37.759 --> 00:09:40.639 all relative. So what you think is good or bad 165 00:09:40.720 --> 00:09:44.080 is actually just based off of either prior experiences or experiences, 166 00:09:44.120 --> 00:09:47.080 people you know have told you it's not necessarily good 167 00:09:47.240 --> 00:09:47.600 or bad. 168 00:09:49.159 --> 00:09:52.639 And so how would you define the difference between bias 169 00:09:52.679 --> 00:09:53.440 and preference. 170 00:09:54.200 --> 00:09:57.919 So a lot of preference is bias. You if it's 171 00:09:58.000 --> 00:10:01.639 unconscious or you're not really thinking about it, it is bias. 172 00:10:01.639 --> 00:10:06.080 Like for me, I unconsciously always go towards chocolate chip 173 00:10:06.080 --> 00:10:09.080 cookie dough ice cream before I go to anything else. 174 00:10:09.120 --> 00:10:12.000 I like, that's a that's a bias. But a preference 175 00:10:12.080 --> 00:10:14.639 is me saying I'm actively choosing to not have that 176 00:10:14.759 --> 00:10:17.759 like very cool new ice cream flavor and just going 177 00:10:18.000 --> 00:10:20.559 to chocolate cookie dough because chocolate chip cookie dough is 178 00:10:20.559 --> 00:10:22.759 what I like. I know it. I don't really love 179 00:10:23.159 --> 00:10:25.679 pistachio as a flavor, so I'm just not going to 180 00:10:25.720 --> 00:10:26.200 go with it. 181 00:10:26.759 --> 00:10:30.360 And so that's it's interesting when you sort of break 182 00:10:30.360 --> 00:10:32.559 it down that way, because I think when we all 183 00:10:32.600 --> 00:10:35.639 hear bias, it sounds very negative. Oh I don't I 184 00:10:35.639 --> 00:10:38.720 don't want to be biased. I'm not biased. Of course, 185 00:10:38.799 --> 00:10:41.240 we'll we'll talk about with you how we're all biased. 186 00:10:42.639 --> 00:10:47.480 But in some ways bias is a is a neutral term. 187 00:10:47.759 --> 00:10:51.399 It's how we apply it right, And and in the 188 00:10:51.440 --> 00:10:55.000 definition or the example you just gave about ice cream. 189 00:10:55.279 --> 00:11:00.639 Preference has a kind of consciousness to it. Yes, is 190 00:11:00.679 --> 00:11:03.120 bias always unconscious? 191 00:11:04.879 --> 00:11:09.120 No? I think that bias can both be conscious and unconscious. 192 00:11:09.159 --> 00:11:15.120 So bias is just this idea that you're veering. You're 193 00:11:15.159 --> 00:11:19.799 taking a mental shortcut to choose one thing over another, 194 00:11:19.879 --> 00:11:24.519 or preference one thing over another based off of other 195 00:11:24.600 --> 00:11:28.240 information that you know. You're not you're working off of 196 00:11:28.320 --> 00:11:30.679 limited information, if that makes sense. So again, like what 197 00:11:30.720 --> 00:11:33.080 we were talking about the plants, theoretically, if you want 198 00:11:33.080 --> 00:11:35.320 it to be truly unbiased, you would eat every single 199 00:11:35.320 --> 00:11:38.039 plant to determine if you could eat all of them. 200 00:11:38.559 --> 00:11:41.200 Is that possible? No, there's way too You wouldn't use 201 00:11:41.240 --> 00:11:44.679 the plants, So you're going to use mental shortcuts to 202 00:11:44.679 --> 00:11:46.320 say that plant looks like the other one that made 203 00:11:46.360 --> 00:11:48.759 me really sick. I'm not going to do it. So 204 00:11:48.840 --> 00:11:52.000 then you go towards berries and you know, wheat, grass 205 00:11:52.039 --> 00:11:53.440 and all of the other things you know you can 206 00:11:53.519 --> 00:11:55.279 eat and things that look like things you know you 207 00:11:55.320 --> 00:11:59.879 can eat. So it's bias is, to put it succinctly, 208 00:12:00.120 --> 00:12:03.519 is as a mental shortcut based off of limited information 209 00:12:03.759 --> 00:12:07.519 that you already have to make a quick decision in 210 00:12:07.639 --> 00:12:12.840 a true scientific method. Fully, I guess if you had 211 00:12:12.840 --> 00:12:15.679 all the time in the world, you would find all 212 00:12:15.720 --> 00:12:18.960 of the information for every possible item. But again, as 213 00:12:18.960 --> 00:12:21.840 we've talked about, that's impossible for the human brain. We 214 00:12:22.320 --> 00:12:24.320 don't have the cognitive ability to do that. 215 00:12:26.320 --> 00:12:29.519 Okay, So armed with these kind of working definitions for 216 00:12:29.559 --> 00:12:33.960 this conversation, let's talk about you. Where are you from? 217 00:12:34.039 --> 00:12:35.919 Where did you grow up? I grew up in New York. 218 00:12:36.200 --> 00:12:40.120 I was born in New York. Lived in Puerto Rico 219 00:12:40.399 --> 00:12:44.039 for two years as a child, so between the ages 220 00:12:44.080 --> 00:12:46.440 of two and four, and then came back to New York. 221 00:12:46.480 --> 00:12:48.519 And then I was a proud New Yorker ever since. 222 00:12:48.720 --> 00:12:51.240 So my mother's got a mom and my father's Puerto 223 00:12:51.320 --> 00:12:53.679 rican So we spent two years there with my family 224 00:12:53.720 --> 00:13:00.679 on his side, and I was in que originally. Then 225 00:13:00.720 --> 00:13:02.720 we went out to Long Island after we came back, 226 00:13:02.799 --> 00:13:06.320 and I was, you know, joking around because everyone always 227 00:13:06.320 --> 00:13:09.559 asked New York, So you're from Manhattan? No, In fact, 228 00:13:09.600 --> 00:13:11.799 most of Manhattan is actually transplants. I grew up where 229 00:13:11.799 --> 00:13:14.159 the real New Yorkers grow up, which is right outside 230 00:13:14.200 --> 00:13:16.799 of Manhattan. So oh, let me get so much. 231 00:13:16.639 --> 00:13:19.879 Flat for that man So I got to tell you. 232 00:13:19.919 --> 00:13:22.080 I'm in Manhattan for the last seventeen years, and my 233 00:13:22.159 --> 00:13:25.000 husband always tells me you're You're not a real new Yorker. 234 00:13:26.559 --> 00:13:28.320 He says, I won't be a real New Yorker until 235 00:13:28.320 --> 00:13:30.919 I walk over syringes in Central Park in the seventies, 236 00:13:31.000 --> 00:13:34.200 so I'll never get there. But I defer to you, 237 00:13:34.200 --> 00:13:39.559 you're a real New Yorker. Having lived an itinerant life, 238 00:13:39.600 --> 00:13:43.799 at least in your early youth. What kind of perspective 239 00:13:44.039 --> 00:13:47.159 did that give you with bias? What was your experience 240 00:13:47.200 --> 00:13:47.879 with bias. 241 00:13:47.639 --> 00:13:51.200 Growing definitely so I. As I said before, I was 242 00:13:51.200 --> 00:13:54.080 living in Puerto Rico up until the age of four. 243 00:13:54.919 --> 00:13:57.879 I don't really have memories of before the age of two, 244 00:13:58.120 --> 00:14:00.480 so when we came back, it was just me and 245 00:14:00.519 --> 00:14:03.080 my mom living with two of my aunts that are 246 00:14:03.120 --> 00:14:07.279 also Guatemalan, and I from a really young age, I 247 00:14:07.480 --> 00:14:12.879 was very aware of what bias looked like and an 248 00:14:12.879 --> 00:14:16.039 example of that. Like my I don't know what the 249 00:14:16.080 --> 00:14:18.679 most severe case of bias I experienced as a kid 250 00:14:18.720 --> 00:14:21.679 or my mom did, but I'd remember the earliest and 251 00:14:21.919 --> 00:14:24.399 it was when I was in kindergarten. Since I had 252 00:14:24.440 --> 00:14:27.240 just come from Puerto Rico, I didn't speak English, or 253 00:14:27.360 --> 00:14:31.320 if I did, it was not good. So my mom 254 00:14:31.480 --> 00:14:34.679 had heard that at the school district I was going to, 255 00:14:35.480 --> 00:14:38.440 if you couldn't speak English, they would automatically put you 256 00:14:38.480 --> 00:14:42.279 in ESL, which would mean that you were off track 257 00:14:42.480 --> 00:14:45.960 for the advanced classes. And they had known that I 258 00:14:46.120 --> 00:14:49.039 was at the risk of sounding like every millennial mom. 259 00:14:49.639 --> 00:14:53.679 I was gifted, and I had you know, I was 260 00:14:54.080 --> 00:14:56.120 testing really well, as much as you can test as 261 00:14:56.120 --> 00:14:58.840 a four year old. But the teachers in Puerto Rico 262 00:14:58.919 --> 00:15:01.480 were telling my mom that like I was, I should 263 00:15:01.480 --> 00:15:04.960 be fast tracked into like a special program. But when 264 00:15:05.000 --> 00:15:07.120 we moved to New York, she just knew that if 265 00:15:07.159 --> 00:15:09.360 I was put in an ESL class, that wouldn't be 266 00:15:09.399 --> 00:15:12.759 the case because all of the ESL classes are taught 267 00:15:12.840 --> 00:15:16.639 remedial content. Even if these children are really bright, just 268 00:15:16.679 --> 00:15:19.120 the sole fact that they don't speak English means that 269 00:15:19.120 --> 00:15:21.120 they're not set up for success, and they're set up 270 00:15:21.120 --> 00:15:24.960 with way less resources, way less content, you know, like, 271 00:15:25.000 --> 00:15:27.000 and so much of those early years is whatever you 272 00:15:27.000 --> 00:15:29.120 can fit in a kid's head is going to set 273 00:15:29.120 --> 00:15:32.120 them up for the rest of their life. So my 274 00:15:32.279 --> 00:15:37.559 mom just told me don't speak to anyone until you 275 00:15:37.879 --> 00:15:38.480 learn English. 276 00:15:38.559 --> 00:15:39.120 Let them know. 277 00:15:39.240 --> 00:15:41.879 And I knew that I just couldn't speak to my teachers. 278 00:15:41.919 --> 00:15:44.440 So my teacher thought I was just like super shy, 279 00:15:45.320 --> 00:15:48.399 and I could kind of you know, kids learn languages 280 00:15:48.440 --> 00:15:50.240 really fast, so it only took me like less than 281 00:15:50.279 --> 00:15:52.799 a year to really pick up enough English to really 282 00:15:52.879 --> 00:15:55.159 understand what the other kids were saying and doing. So 283 00:15:55.240 --> 00:15:59.480 by first grade I was fine. But I remember I 284 00:15:59.519 --> 00:16:01.960 only knew like two family friends in my class, so 285 00:16:02.000 --> 00:16:04.600 I would really only speak to them in Spanish, and 286 00:16:04.799 --> 00:16:06.720 I was just trying to figure out how to parse 287 00:16:06.720 --> 00:16:08.919 everything together and figure out where we were going. But 288 00:16:09.240 --> 00:16:12.120 it was a secret. I couldn't tell anyone that I 289 00:16:12.159 --> 00:16:14.320 didn't really know English well because if I got put 290 00:16:14.360 --> 00:16:16.200 in the other class, or you know, I got put 291 00:16:16.200 --> 00:16:19.519 in ESL, I wouldn't. They would just automatically pigeonhole me 292 00:16:19.559 --> 00:16:22.759 as someone who was quote unquote remedial, even though other 293 00:16:22.840 --> 00:16:25.480 kids that were in the ESL classes should have been 294 00:16:25.720 --> 00:16:29.679 allowed to experience the same amount of learning, but they 295 00:16:29.679 --> 00:16:32.960 weren't given those resources or those opportunities. So from a 296 00:16:33.039 --> 00:16:34.000 really young age, how do. 297 00:16:33.960 --> 00:16:38.480 You think, Yeah, how do you think that early experience 298 00:16:38.519 --> 00:16:38.960 shaped you. 299 00:16:39.240 --> 00:16:41.639 It made me really aware of the fact that I 300 00:16:41.720 --> 00:16:45.679 had certain characteristics that other people look down on, and 301 00:16:46.360 --> 00:16:50.320 I became aware of the fact that that was how 302 00:16:50.360 --> 00:16:52.519 life was just going to be for me a little 303 00:16:52.559 --> 00:16:55.919 bit for a while. It gave me a lot of drive, 304 00:16:56.039 --> 00:16:57.759 which I think that a lot of people tend to 305 00:16:57.799 --> 00:17:01.639 glorify this idea of grit that you know, here she 306 00:17:01.799 --> 00:17:05.119 is like uphill battle, like showing the world that they're wrong. 307 00:17:05.559 --> 00:17:09.119 But I don't necessarily. I think the psychological effects of 308 00:17:09.160 --> 00:17:11.720 it are things that I'm still coping with, you know, 309 00:17:12.000 --> 00:17:18.680 in therapy. And it was really fascinating reflecting on this 310 00:17:18.759 --> 00:17:21.319 in recent years while I've been, you know, trying to 311 00:17:21.559 --> 00:17:25.400 write more and write more of a blog, and just 312 00:17:25.440 --> 00:17:29.079 really acknowledging the fact that it's from a really young age, 313 00:17:29.079 --> 00:17:31.960 I knew that I had certain characteristics that other people 314 00:17:32.359 --> 00:17:37.039 made other people think that I wasn't as equipped or capable, 315 00:17:37.160 --> 00:17:40.519 or as intelligent or as valuable as other people. 316 00:17:40.880 --> 00:17:45.519 You know, that's such an interesting perspective, Linda, because what 317 00:17:45.559 --> 00:17:49.720 you're describing is this almost a I don't mean to 318 00:17:49.720 --> 00:17:53.680 put words in your mouth, but almost a fair justified 319 00:17:53.720 --> 00:17:57.559 resentment towards having to be resilient. You know, people could 320 00:17:57.599 --> 00:18:00.680 applaud you for that, but you're kind of like, why 321 00:18:00.680 --> 00:18:02.440 should I have had to work harder? 322 00:18:02.559 --> 00:18:02.839 Yeah? 323 00:18:03.680 --> 00:18:07.680 All right, So your teachers in Puerto Rico were right, 324 00:18:07.920 --> 00:18:13.599 you are gifted. You You end up at Harvard, and 325 00:18:15.279 --> 00:18:16.599 what was that like? 326 00:18:18.240 --> 00:18:20.799 It was the best of times in the worst of times, 327 00:18:20.839 --> 00:18:25.240 for sure, just the traditional Harvard experience of having grown 328 00:18:25.279 --> 00:18:27.000 up as kind of a big fish in a little 329 00:18:27.039 --> 00:18:30.359 pond and having the very harsh reality check of oh, 330 00:18:30.400 --> 00:18:33.640 I'm not the smartest person in the room anymore. That's awkward, 331 00:18:33.960 --> 00:18:36.680 and you know, being surrounded by so many people who 332 00:18:36.759 --> 00:18:39.359 are just so brilliant, and if you're ever playing the 333 00:18:39.359 --> 00:18:43.480 comparison game, there will always be someone smarter, more well adjusted, 334 00:18:43.720 --> 00:18:47.839 more social, more anything. So very early on in my 335 00:18:47.920 --> 00:18:51.279 college career, I had to rectify that comparison game of 336 00:18:52.720 --> 00:18:56.039 trying to just use everyone else's barometer for my own 337 00:18:56.039 --> 00:19:01.359 success and happiness. So it catapults me into a level 338 00:19:01.400 --> 00:19:05.039 of emotional intelligence that I had definitely never thought possible 339 00:19:05.079 --> 00:19:07.359 for myself earlier on because I was a very like 340 00:19:07.440 --> 00:19:11.079 STEM person. So, you know, bias and stereotypes about STEM 341 00:19:11.119 --> 00:19:15.839 people where we're a little emotionally everyone thinks that we're 342 00:19:15.839 --> 00:19:19.400 a little like unemotional or emotionally unavailable, but I promise 343 00:19:19.519 --> 00:19:23.279 some of us are very emotionally intelligent. Uh. You know. 344 00:19:23.440 --> 00:19:27.839 It was a Harvard graduate called Theodore Roosevelt who said 345 00:19:28.200 --> 00:19:31.920 about comparison. He says, comparison is the thief of joy. Yeah, 346 00:19:32.000 --> 00:19:35.039 so it sounds like an important lesson that you were 347 00:19:35.160 --> 00:19:36.279 wise enough to teach. 348 00:19:36.079 --> 00:19:37.640 Yourself as a college exactly. 349 00:19:37.839 --> 00:19:41.640 I mean, sixty seven percent of Harvard students come from 350 00:19:41.880 --> 00:19:46.720 the top twenty percent of wealth owning households. And it's 351 00:19:46.759 --> 00:19:49.119 also a school I think it has like less than 352 00:19:49.160 --> 00:19:57.039 an eight percent LATINX population. Yeah, so how isolated did 353 00:19:57.039 --> 00:20:00.799 you feel and did you feel kind of like a hello, 354 00:20:00.839 --> 00:20:02.119 I'm the model minority. 355 00:20:02.319 --> 00:20:06.720 Yeah. It was really isolating in the sense that a 356 00:20:06.720 --> 00:20:10.559 lot of people can't understand your experiences no matter how 357 00:20:10.640 --> 00:20:14.000 much they want to. They like, they'll listen, they'll sympathize, 358 00:20:14.440 --> 00:20:17.440 but there is a certain point in which you know, 359 00:20:18.359 --> 00:20:20.279 in the same way that you can talk to one 360 00:20:20.319 --> 00:20:23.279 of your girlfriends going through a breakup because you've understood 361 00:20:23.279 --> 00:20:25.920 it and you've been there yourself. I wasn't able to 362 00:20:25.960 --> 00:20:29.880 do that for certain like life events that were going 363 00:20:29.920 --> 00:20:31.880 that I was going through at the time, and. 364 00:20:33.279 --> 00:20:34.359 Can you give me an example. 365 00:20:34.759 --> 00:20:40.119 Yeah, so I remember my freshman year, I really wanted 366 00:20:40.160 --> 00:20:44.720 to study abroad in Nairobi. That summer. I was taking Swahili, 367 00:20:45.319 --> 00:20:49.240 which is an African language my freshman year, and that 368 00:20:49.400 --> 00:20:52.519 summer the Swahili professor was conducting a study of broad 369 00:20:52.519 --> 00:20:55.680 trip and I really wanted to go, but you know, 370 00:20:55.799 --> 00:20:58.720 I couldn't afford it. I was on full financial aid 371 00:20:58.759 --> 00:21:00.920 and it was extra money, so I was trying to 372 00:21:00.960 --> 00:21:03.359 figure out how to get a grant or anything like that. 373 00:21:03.759 --> 00:21:05.359 So I was pretty convinced I was going to get 374 00:21:05.359 --> 00:21:08.880 one specific grant and then it fell through, and I 375 00:21:08.960 --> 00:21:13.519 remember just being really upset, you know, just like rightfully 376 00:21:13.599 --> 00:21:16.519 emotional at home, just like talking to one of my 377 00:21:17.000 --> 00:21:19.680 college roommates, just you know, being upset that I wasn't 378 00:21:19.680 --> 00:21:22.200 going to be able to go, which also sidebar, I 379 00:21:22.240 --> 00:21:24.039 actually ended up being able to go because I got 380 00:21:24.039 --> 00:21:26.279 a separate grant, so it ended up being a happy story. 381 00:21:26.359 --> 00:21:31.640 But I remember just talking to a friend who just goes, oh, well, like, 382 00:21:31.759 --> 00:21:33.640 I'm sure that your parents will be able to cover 383 00:21:33.680 --> 00:21:35.319 it if you just talked to them that you lost 384 00:21:35.319 --> 00:21:39.839 the grant and I go what, and she goes, no, 385 00:21:39.960 --> 00:21:41.920 I mean, it's really not that much money. It's only 386 00:21:41.960 --> 00:21:45.039 like a little under ten thousand dollars. And I just 387 00:21:45.079 --> 00:21:47.799 look at her and go, oh, my mom makes thirty 388 00:21:47.880 --> 00:21:50.279 thousand dollars a year. I don't know how you think 389 00:21:50.319 --> 00:21:54.119 a third of her annual salary or wage will actually 390 00:21:54.160 --> 00:21:57.000 be able to cover this trip. And it was one 391 00:21:57.000 --> 00:21:59.680 of those very harsh realities for her where she realized, 392 00:22:00.079 --> 00:22:03.440 oh wow, I did not realize that people make that 393 00:22:03.519 --> 00:22:06.640 little And it was one of those moments where I 394 00:22:06.680 --> 00:22:09.880 actually had to sit there and explain that to her, 395 00:22:11.079 --> 00:22:16.119 explain that not everyone has ten thousand dollars lying around. 396 00:22:16.359 --> 00:22:20.799 In fact, most people in America don't. And I think 397 00:22:20.839 --> 00:22:23.279 that it was it's just little things like that, where 398 00:22:23.319 --> 00:22:25.400 like in ways that I would be able to talk 399 00:22:25.440 --> 00:22:29.519 to someone at home or even just someone in the 400 00:22:29.559 --> 00:22:32.880 real world here in LA where I am able to 401 00:22:32.920 --> 00:22:35.279