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<v Speaker 1>You know, when you look at cybersecurity, it really feels

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<v Speaker 1>less like some orderly game like chess and more like this,

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<v Speaker 1>I don't know, this endless game of hide and seek,

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<v Speaker 1>but with really high stakes.

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<v Speaker 2>Yeah, it's a constant push and pull, isn't it a

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<v Speaker 2>real cat and mouse situation between the attackers trying to

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<v Speaker 2>breach systems and the defenders, you know, scrambling to keep.

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<v Speaker 1>Them out exactly, And it goes way beyond just the tech,

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<v Speaker 1>the firewalls and stuff. It's so much about strategy, deception

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<v Speaker 1>and just trying to adapt faster than the other side.

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<v Speaker 2>It really is a continuous loop, like attackers find a

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<v Speaker 2>new way in, defenders build a patch or a detection

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<v Speaker 2>for it. Then the attackers have to tweet their method,

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<v Speaker 2>maybe bypass the new defense, and the whole cycle just

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<v Speaker 2>speeds up.

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<v Speaker 1>And really getting inside that dynamic understanding how it works.

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<v Speaker 1>That's what we want to do in this deep dive.

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<v Speaker 1>We're pulling insights directly from the book Adversarial Tradecraft and

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<v Speaker 1>Cybersecurity Offense Versus Defense, and well specifically focusing on the

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<v Speaker 1>parts about practical techniques and the sort of the ideas

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<v Speaker 1>driving this conflict.

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<v Speaker 2>Right The author Dan Boris. He brings this really interesting

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<v Speaker 2>mix of experience. He's worked in the real world, you know,

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<v Speaker 2>places like uber Mandy and CrowdStrike, but he also has

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<v Speaker 2>deep experience in those big collegiate cyber competitions like CCDC

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<v Speaker 2>and CPTC, so he's seen it all from multiple angles.

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<v Speaker 1>Yeah, and that perspective shows the book seems aimed at practitioners,

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<v Speaker 1>people actually doing the work, maybe folks starting out who

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<v Speaker 1>might need to google a few things, up to say

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<v Speaker 1>intermediate level people. It shows how lessons from those competitions

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<v Speaker 1>really do apply to real world enterprise security absolutely.

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<v Speaker 2>So our mission here really is to give you a shortcut.

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<v Speaker 2>We want to distill the key takeaways, the most important

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<v Speaker 2>bits from this source material to give you a clearer

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<v Speaker 2>picture of the strategies, the tools, the techniques attackers use.

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<v Speaker 1>And then how defenders try to counter that, and how

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<v Speaker 1>each side is constantly reacting to the other.

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<v Speaker 2>Exactly understanding that interaction is key.

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<v Speaker 1>Okay, let's unpack this. The source starts by laying out

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<v Speaker 1>some foundational building blocks for information security. Talks about the

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<v Speaker 1>CION attributes.

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<v Speaker 2>Ah, yes, CIAN that's confidentiality, integrity, availability, authentication, authorization, and

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<v Speaker 2>non repudiation. Right, think of these as the sort of

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<v Speaker 2>fundamental qualities of data and systems. They're what the attackers

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<v Speaker 2>are trying to undermine and what the defenders are desperately

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<v Speaker 2>trying to protect.

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<v Speaker 1>And the Source really highlights non repudiation because of the

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<v Speaker 1>defender's eyes and ears. What does that mean? Practically speaking?

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<v Speaker 2>It basically means logging, good logging, creating solid, ideally unchangeable

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<v Speaker 2>records of who did what, when they did it, where

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<v Speaker 2>they did it from. If you don't capture that information,

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<v Speaker 2>especially stuff that only happens in memory and disappears, well

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<v Speaker 2>it's just gone pretty much. It's the main way defenders

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<v Speaker 2>can piece together what happened after an incident or spot

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<v Speaker 2>something shady going on.

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<v Speaker 1>So if an attacker can mess with those logs, can

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<v Speaker 1>erase their tracks effectively like blinding the defenders.

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<v Speaker 2>Oh yeah, right. Beyond those basic attributes, the Source digs

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<v Speaker 2>into several key principles of this computer conflict ideas that

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<v Speaker 2>seem to guide the strategies for both sides. What are

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<v Speaker 2>some of the big ones.

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<v Speaker 1>Well, the principle of deception seems huge.

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<v Speaker 2>Oh, absolutely, It's all about making abnormal things look totally normal.

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<v Speaker 2>For an attacker, this is critical. If they can blend in,

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<v Speaker 2>they can operate for much longer without getting caught.

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<v Speaker 1>Like hiding in plain sight. And you can't really talk

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<v Speaker 1>about this stuff without bringing in the human factor, right,

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<v Speaker 1>the principle of humanity.

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<v Speaker 2>Definitely, there's always a person involved somewhere targeting people, you know,

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<v Speaker 2>social engineering, phishing emails that can often bypass even the

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<v Speaker 2>best technical defenses. The source mentions that old classic getting

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<v Speaker 2>a password off an employee at a bar faily works

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<v Speaker 2>huh surprisingly often. Yeah. Then there's the principle of physical access.

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<v Speaker 2>This one's pretty fundamental.

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<v Speaker 1>Meaning if you can actually touch the machine, or if.

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<v Speaker 2>You own the management interface for cloud stuff like AWS

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<v Speaker 2>or the hypervisor like ESXi. If you have that level

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<v Speaker 2>of a control, you generally win. You can dump the memory,

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<v Speaker 2>reinstall the OS, just walk away with the hardware. Sometimes

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<v Speaker 2>it usually trump's purely digital.

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<v Speaker 1>Remote access makes sense total control versus like partial access

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<v Speaker 1>through the network. Planning also seems key, oh for sure.

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<v Speaker 2>The principle of planning. The book quotes sense, you know,

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<v Speaker 2>plan for what is difficult while it is easy. You've

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<v Speaker 2>got to have a plan, write it down, even practice it.

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<v Speaker 2>If you can identify the weak.

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<v Speaker 1>Spots, and that applies to both guides.

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<v Speaker 2>Absolutely offense planning their attack path, defense planning their detection

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<v Speaker 2>and response strategy. It's crucial for everyone.

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<v Speaker 1>And then there's timing, the principle of time.

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<v Speaker 2>Yeah, timing is critical in strategy. The source makes a

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<v Speaker 2>good point about how the environment changes things. Short competitions

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<v Speaker 2>like CCDC might allow for really noisy, aggressive tactics because time.

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<v Speaker 1>Is limited, but in the real world.

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<v Speaker 2>In the real world, attackers often need to be much

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<v Speaker 2>more patient, slow, and low, you know, to maintain access

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<v Speaker 2>long term without tripping alarms. Defenders, on the other hand,

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<v Speaker 2>use time to build up those complex layered defenses we

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<v Speaker 2>talked about gotcha.

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<v Speaker 1>And finally, innovation non negotiable.

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<v Speaker 2>The source quotes the MMA fighter Georgia Saint Pierre basically

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<v Speaker 2>saying standing still is asking for failure. Both sides have

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<v Speaker 2>to constantly adapt, create new techniques, find ways around existing.

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<v Speaker 1>Ones, because as soon as your trick is known.

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<v Speaker 2>It's effectiveness drops sometimes to zero. So if your tool

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<v Speaker 2>gets detected, you need a plan B, maybe a Plan C.

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<v Speaker 2>You have to pivot fast. That constant need to innovate

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<v Speaker 2>really drives this whole adversarial game.

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<v Speaker 1>Okay, that gives us a really solid strategic foundation. Now

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<v Speaker 1>let's get into the specifics. What does the offensive playbook

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<v Speaker 1>actually look like? How do attackers get in, and maybe

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<v Speaker 1>more importantly, how do they stay hidden? The source mentioned

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<v Speaker 1>a big shift away from like traditional disc forensics.

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<v Speaker 2>Yeah, that's a really key point. For a long time

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<v Speaker 2>to defenders could often find attacker tools and evidence by

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<v Speaker 2>analyzing the hard drive after the fact. You know, dead

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<v Speaker 2>disc forensics. Right, So attackers adapted. They started moving their

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<v Speaker 2>operations beyond the disc. They operate live in memory in RAM,

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<v Speaker 2>and the big difference there is volatility. When the malicious

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<v Speaker 2>process stops or the computer reboots, poof the evidence in

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<v Speaker 2>RAM is gone. This makes life much much harder for

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<v Speaker 2>defenders relying only on those older disc based methods.

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<v Speaker 1>Wow, operating purely a memory that sounds like a defender's nightmare.

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<v Speaker 1>What kind of techniques do they use for that?

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<v Speaker 2>Well, process injection is a really common one. The basic

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<v Speaker 2>idea is to run your malicious code, often something called

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<v Speaker 2>shell code, which is just low level machine instructions inside

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<v Speaker 2>the memory space of a completely legitimate, trusted process that's

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<v Speaker 2>already running.

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<v Speaker 1>So instead of running like Evil dot ex. They sneak

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<v Speaker 1>their code into something that looks normal. Maybe explore dot

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<v Speaker 1>ex on Windbows exactly.

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<v Speaker 2>That. The whole point is deception. It makes the malicious

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<v Speaker 2>activity look like it's part of a normal, trusted program,

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<v Speaker 2>so it's way harder for security tools to flag it.

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<v Speaker 2>S suspicious. Very common on Windows, and there are different

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<v Speaker 2>ways to do it, like DLL.

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<v Speaker 1>Injection DL injection.

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<v Speaker 2>Yeah, injecting a malicious dynamic link library a DLL file

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<v Speaker 2>into another process is memory space, so that process loads

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<v Speaker 2>and runs the malicious code.

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<v Speaker 1>Okay, so they're hiding where their code is running, but

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<v Speaker 1>they still need to communicate back home right to their

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<v Speaker 1>command and control server, their C two. How do they

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<v Speaker 1>hide that?

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<v Speaker 2>Ah? Right, that's where covert C two comes in command

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<v Speaker 2>and control. They need to maintain that connection for instructions

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<v Speaker 2>and sending data back, but without their network traffic setting

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<v Speaker 2>off alarms. So they try to make it blend in.

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<v Speaker 1>Oh, by using protocols you'd expect to see anyway.

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<v Speaker 2>Precisely tunneling their C two data over common stuff like ICMP,

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<v Speaker 2>which is normally used for ping requests or DNS, the

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<v Speaker 2>Domain Name lookup system, the source mentions tools like ikempdoor,

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<v Speaker 2>or how the popular C two framework Sliver can use

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<v Speaker 2>DNS for its C two channel.

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<v Speaker 1>There was that specific example, and the source about Sliver

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<v Speaker 1>and innovation wasn't there.

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<v Speaker 2>Yes, good point. It mentions that Sliver's default setting for

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<v Speaker 2>checking in over DNS might be, say, every second, which

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<v Speaker 2>is pretty frequent. Potentially noisy on a network.

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<v Speaker 1>Could get spotted. Good.

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<v Speaker 2>Yeah, But because Sliver is often open source, an attacker

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<v Speaker 2>can just go into the code and change that interval,

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<v Speaker 2>maybe make it check in only every sixty seconds or

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<v Speaker 2>even longer. Slower, but stealthier, much stealthier. It's a perfect

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<v Speaker 2>example of that principle of innovation in action, taking an

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<v Speaker 2>existing tool, tweaking it slightly based on defensive knowledge, and

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<v Speaker 2>making it way harder to detect.

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<v Speaker 1>That's fascinating. Such a small change, big impact. Okay, so

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<v Speaker 1>they're in their communicating stealthily.

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<v Speaker 2>Yeah.

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<v Speaker 1>What about covering their tracks after they've done something on

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<v Speaker 1>a system?

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<v Speaker 2>Yeah, this is crucial if they want to stick around.

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<v Speaker 2>Remember non repudiation, the logs being the defender's eyes. Will

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<v Speaker 2>attackers know that? So clearing logs is a fundamental offensive technique.

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<v Speaker 1>How do they do that? Just delete the files?

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<v Speaker 2>Sometimes it's that crude, but smart attackers use more sophisticated methods,

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<v Speaker 2>especially on Windows. Tools like event cleaner might use Windows

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<v Speaker 2>API functions to manipulate the event log files directly, sometimes

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<v Speaker 2>bypassing the usual ways files are locked, making it harder

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<v Speaker 2>to spot the tampering. The source even mentions older techniques

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<v Speaker 2>that could modify specific records or fix id numbers to

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<v Speaker 2>make it look.

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<v Speaker 1>Seamless, wow actually rewriting the history inside the logs, but

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<v Speaker 1>the source said defenders can sometimes still spot this often.

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<v Speaker 2>Yes, if you look closely, you might see gaps in

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<v Speaker 2>record numbers, or the file size or modification times might

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<v Speaker 2>look weird. On Linux, maybe they just pipe logs through

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<v Speaker 2>e repdac V to filter out their activity, but that

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<v Speaker 2>can leave traces.

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<v Speaker 1>Too, So a more subtle.

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<v Speaker 2>Way, the source suggests backdooring the service that creates the

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<v Speaker 2>logs in the first place, like using a modified Apache

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<v Speaker 2>web server module. A patchy to backdoor mod is mentioned

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<v Speaker 2>that just doesn't write log entries for the attackers' specific actions.

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<v Speaker 1>Ah, so the incriminating log entries never even created. Much

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<v Speaker 1>harder to find what.

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<v Speaker 2>Isn't there exactly, and that leads into the last big

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<v Speaker 2>hiding technique mentioned root kits.

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<v Speaker 1>Root kits that sounds serious It can be.

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<v Speaker 2>Broadly speaking, root kits are techniques designed to actively change

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<v Speaker 2>how the operating system or defensive tools perceive the system state.

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<v Speaker 2>Their goal is to hide the attacker's presence, their files,

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<v Speaker 2>their running processes, network connections, you name it.

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<v Speaker 1>So they're not just hiding passively. They're actively manipulating what

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<v Speaker 1>the system reports, like lying to tools like task manager

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<v Speaker 1>or else.

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<v Speaker 2>That's the core idea. Whether it's deep down in the

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<v Speaker 2>kernel or using user level tricks, the goal is deception,

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<v Speaker 2>make the malicious stuff invisible to standard system checks. Another

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<v Speaker 2>direct hit on that principle of deception.

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<v Speaker 1>Understanding all these offensive moves must be critical for the defenders.

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<v Speaker 2>Oh absolutely, You can't build effective defenses if you don't

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<v Speaker 2>understand how the attackers think and what techniques they're likely

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<v Speaker 2>to use, which brings.

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<v Speaker 1>Us perfectly to the defensive side of things. The source

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<v Speaker 1>really hammers home that difficulty defenders face. They have to

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<v Speaker 1>be right essentially one hundred percent of the time stop

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<v Speaker 1>every attack, but the offense they just need one success

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<v Speaker 1>one way in.

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<v Speaker 2>It's a fundamental asymmetry, a real challenge and That's why

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<v Speaker 2>the source emphasizes that preparation is paramount for defenders. You

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<v Speaker 2>have to patiently, methodically build your defenses. The analogy used

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<v Speaker 2>is like a spider building a web, but maybe a

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<v Speaker 2>web with many, many.

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<v Speaker 1>Layers, so that concept of defense in depth precisely.

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<v Speaker 2>The goal isn't always to prevent that initial breach, because

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<v Speaker 2>sometimes you just can't. It's about having multiple layers of

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<v Speaker 2>detection and control so you can spot the attacker as

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<v Speaker 2>they try to move deeper into the network or achieve

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<v Speaker 2>their objectives.

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<v Speaker 1>And preparing for the inevitable.

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<v Speaker 2>Yes, preparing your response processes too, because realistically you will

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<v Speaker 2>get compromised at some point. Knowing what to do when

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<v Speaker 2>that happens is just as vital as trying to prevent it.

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<v Speaker 1>Okay, so how do they build this defensive web and

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<v Speaker 1>how do they spot the attacker moving around inside? It

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<v Speaker 1>sounds like it all comes down to data data.

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<v Speaker 2>It really does. Defenders are hugely reliant on monitoring and logging,

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<v Speaker 2>collecting as much relevant data as possible from everywhere they.

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<v Speaker 1>Can, starting on the individual computers, the endpoints.

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<v Speaker 2>YEP host based data. This is where modern EDR endpoint

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<v Speaker 2>detection and response platforms are so important. Tools like oscary,

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<v Speaker 2>gr Rapid Response, Wazoo, velociraptor. There are great open source

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<v Speaker 2>options plus commercial ones.

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<v Speaker 1>What did These eder tools give.

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<v Speaker 2>You incredible visibility, detailed telemetry about processes like what programs started, what,

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<v Speaker 2>what files did it touch? What network connections did it make?

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<v Speaker 2>They also look at behavior spotting anomalies, and many offer

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<v Speaker 2>live response capabilities, letting defenders investigate or contain a machine remotely.

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<v Speaker 1>So it's not just about looking for known bad files,

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<v Speaker 1>it's watching what things do exactly.

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<v Speaker 2>Watching behavior is key and all this data is also

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<v Speaker 2>crucial for threat hunting, where analysts proactively search through the

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<v Speaker 2>data using hypotheses about potential threats. Looking for subtle signs

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<v Speaker 2>of compromise that might not have triggered an automated alert.

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<v Speaker 1>Makes sense, but you also need eyes on the traffic

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<v Speaker 1>between machines right absolutely.

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<v Speaker 2>Network based data is the other critical piece. You get

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<v Speaker 2>this by setting up network taps or using inline devices

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<v Speaker 2>like firewalls or intrusion prevention systems IPS. These let you

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<v Speaker 2>see the traffic flowing across the network.

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<v Speaker 1>And the sorts had that analogy, Yeah, it was a

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<v Speaker 1>good one.

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<v Speaker 2>Host data is like finding a needle in a haystack.

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<v Speaker 2>Sometimes network data is more like watching the traffic on

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<v Speaker 2>a highway. You can spot unusual patterns like unexpected connections

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<v Speaker 2>between servers, data moving where it shouldn't, or those covert

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<v Speaker 2>C two channels we talked about.

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<v Speaker 1>Okay, and the tools mentioned here were things like snort

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<v Speaker 1>cercata Zeke for analyzing protocols, and wire shark or t

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<v Speaker 1>shark for really deep packet inspection. Controlling those network joke

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<v Speaker 1>points seems vital.

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<v Speaker 2>It really is, and you can't forget application logs either.

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<v Speaker 1>Logs from specific programs.

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<v Speaker 2>Right logs from your security tools themselves, email gateways, web

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<v Speaker 2>application firewalls, wafs, but also so logs from your core

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<v Speaker 2>business applications think e commerce platforms, internal APIs. These can

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<v Speaker 2>show things like weird log in patterns, super fast browsing

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<v Speaker 2>that looks like scraping, or other signs of abuse.

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<v Speaker 1>Okay, that is a mountain of data coming from endpoints,

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<v Speaker 1>the network applications. How on earth do defenders actually make

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<v Speaker 1>sense of it all.

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<v Speaker 2>That's where SIME and SORE platforms come in. SIME stands

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<v Speaker 2>for Security Information and Event Management, SAR is security orchestration

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<v Speaker 2>automation and response tools like Splunk or the open source

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<v Speaker 2>ELK stack Elastic Search Logstash cabana, sometimes called HLK. They

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<v Speaker 2>exist to pull all this diverse log data into one central.

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<v Speaker 1>Place, so you can actually search across everything at once.

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<v Speaker 2>Yes, and maybe even more importantly, you can correlate events

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<v Speaker 2>across different data sources. A single weird login attempt from

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<v Speaker 2>the firewall might not be alarming. But if you see

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<v Speaker 2>that plus some strange process starting on the target machine

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<v Speaker 2>in your EDER logs at the exact same time.

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<v Speaker 1>Okay, now that looks suspicious exactly.

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<v Speaker 2>That correlation is powerful. This is where defenders can figure alerts,

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<v Speaker 2>often using complex logic. If you see event A and D,

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<v Speaker 2>event boor event C, then trigger an alert.

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<v Speaker 1>And the sore part adds automation like playbooks.

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<v Speaker 2>Right, If a really high confidence alert fires, a saucer

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<v Speaker 2>system can automatically run a predefined playbook. Maybe it quarantines

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<v Speaker 2>the affected computer off the network, blocks the suspicious IP

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<v Speaker 2>address at the firewall, or temporarily disables the user's account,

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<v Speaker 2>all without needing immediate human intervention.

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<v Speaker 1>Okay, So all this infrastructure, the data collection, the sign

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<v Speaker 1>the alerts, it's all geared towards finding the threat. The

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<v Speaker 1>source really emphasizes that idea, no normal find evil.

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<v Speaker 2>It's a fundamental concept in defense. If you have a

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<v Speaker 2>solid understanding of what normal, legitimate activity looks like on

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<v Speaker 2>your network and your systems, what processes usually run, who

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<v Speaker 2>usually logs in from where, what traffic patterns are typical,

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<v Speaker 2>then the anomalies the evil will stand out much more clearly.

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<v Speaker 1>It requires baselining, and once they do find a threat,

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<v Speaker 1>The source talks about the importance of root cause analysis

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<v Speaker 1>or RCA. Why is digging into the how so critical?

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<v Speaker 2>Because just kicking the attacker out isn't enough if you

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<v Speaker 2>don't figure out how they got in originally. Was it

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<v Speaker 2>a phishing link, an unpatched server, stolen credentials, You haven't

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<v Speaker 2>fixed the underlying vulnerability.

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<v Speaker 1>And they'll just get back in the same way exactly.

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<v Speaker 2>You have to close the door they used, otherwise you're

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<v Speaker 2>just playing whack a mole. RCA is about learning from

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<v Speaker 2>the incident to prevent it from happening.

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<v Speaker 1>Again, and defenders use all this data and analysis to

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<v Speaker 1>try and spot the attacker's attempts at deception, like the

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<v Speaker 1>root kits and covert c two.

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<v Speaker 2>We discussed absolutely. Detecting root kits might involve looking for

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<v Speaker 2>weird inconsistencies like a process is running but doesn't show

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<v Speaker 2>up in task manager, or you can CD into a

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<v Speaker 2>directory that sells claims doesn't exist. For covert C two,

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<v Speaker 2>they might use frequency analysis on DNS requests, looking for

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<v Speaker 2>hosts making unusually regular lookups, or analyzed traffic patterns for

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<v Speaker 2>other anomalies.

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<v Speaker 1>I thought it was interesting that source also mentioned defenders

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<v Speaker 1>using deception themselves.

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<v Speaker 2>Yeah, fighting fire with fire, right, Yeah, deploying deception technologies

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<v Speaker 2>like honeypots. These are decoy systems deliberately made to look

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<v Speaker 2>attractive to attackers, like bait exactly. They sit there looking vulnerable,

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<v Speaker 2>and the moment an attacker touches them, alarms go off.

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<v Speaker 2>Tools like teapotter artillery can set these up, or you

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<v Speaker 2>can use honey tokens things like fake awskeys, fake database credentials,

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<v Speaker 2>or even fake user accounts scattered around.

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<v Speaker 1>And if anyone tries.

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<v Speaker 2>To use them, bingo, you know someone's poking around where

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<v Speaker 2>they shouldn't be. It turns the attacker's own methods against them.

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<v Speaker 1>Clever, Okay, So an attacker is found, maybe the root

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<v Speaker 1>cause is being investigated. What are the immediate actions defenders.

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<v Speaker 2>Take response and containment. You need to stop the bleeding

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<v Speaker 2>and get the attacker out. This can range from simple

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<v Speaker 2>things like killing their processes kill nine toutch nine on

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<v Speaker 2>Linux as the classic, or blocking their IP addresses using

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<v Speaker 2>firewall rules like with iptables. More significant yeah like network

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<v Speaker 2>quarantine taking the compromise machine completely off the main network.

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<v Speaker 2>This stops the attacker from using it to jump to

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<v Speaker 2>other systems lateral movement while the security team investigates and

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<v Speaker 2>cleans it up.

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<v Speaker 1>The source also mentioned ways to lock down files even

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<v Speaker 1>if the attacker gets high privileges.

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<v Speaker 2>Right using native OS features. On Linux, there's a command

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<v Speaker 2>chat wise plus I. Setting the immutable flag on a

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<v Speaker 2>file means nobody, not even the root user, can modify

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<v Speaker 2>or delete it without first removing that flag. It's a

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<v Speaker 2>great way to protect critical configuration files.

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<v Speaker 1>Or logs, simple but effective, and limiting the blast radius

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<v Speaker 1>if they do get in.

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<v Speaker 2>Using techniques like crute. This basically creates a little jail

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<v Speaker 2>for a process, restricting its view of the filesystem to

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<v Speaker 2>just one specific directory. So if an attacker compromises, say

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<v Speaker 2>a web server running inside a cruite jail, for Verlado.

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<v Speaker 2>They can only see and affect files within Varderdoo. They

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<v Speaker 2>can't easily access the rest of the system.

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<v Speaker 1>Not perfect security, but slows them exactly.

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<v Speaker 2>It limits the scope of the compromise. And of course

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<v Speaker 2>a crucial step is always rotating any passwords or credentials

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<v Speaker 2>that might have been exposed during the incident.

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<v Speaker 1>Okay, we've covered a lot of the tactical back and forth,

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<v Speaker 1>but the source also widens the lens a bit. Talks

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<v Speaker 1>about this ongoing intelligence war.

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<v Speaker 2>Yeah, both sides are constantly doing research and gathering intel.

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<v Speaker 2>For attackers, it's offensive research before they even launch an attack.

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<v Speaker 2>They're mapping the target's network, trying to understand user privileges,

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<v Speaker 2>figuring out the org chart for potential social engineering targets.

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<v Speaker 1>Why do they do that?

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<v Speaker 2>Tools like Bloodhound are amazing for visualizing relationships in Windows

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<v Speaker 2>active directory environments, finding attack paths. They might scrape internal

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<v Speaker 2>company wikis if they get access, look for leaked passwords online,

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<v Speaker 2>or use tools like Hydra to try and guest passwords

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<v Speaker 2>by spraying common ones across many.

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<v Speaker 1>Accounts, basically casing the joint before the break.

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<v Speaker 2>In pretty much, and defenders are doing their own defensive

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<v Speaker 2>research and threat hunting. This involves threat modeling basically trying

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<v Speaker 2>to think like an attacker, where are weak spots, how

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<v Speaker 2>would someone try to.

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<v Speaker 1>Get in, anticipating moves right, and.

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<v Speaker 2>Threat hunting, which we touched on proactively searching through all

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<v Speaker 2>that log data for signs of threats based on the

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<v Speaker 2>latest intelligence about attacker techniques or just based on security hypotheses.

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<v Speaker 1>The source had that example of the University Virginia CCDC

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<v Speaker 1>team building their own tool, blue Spawn.

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<v Speaker 2>Yeah, that's a perfect illustration. They were in these competitions,

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<v Speaker 2>they saw common attack techniques and they used their research

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<v Speaker 2>time to build a tool specifically to detect that stuff automatically.

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<v Speaker 2>That's defensive innovation driven by understanding the offense, and.

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<v Speaker 1>That innovation cycle just keeps spinning, right. The source mentioned

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<v Speaker 1>that rocket Chat zero day from the CPTC competition.

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<v Speaker 2>Oh yeah, that was wild. It showed how valuable research

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<v Speaker 2>during downtime can be. Some students basically found a brand

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<v Speaker 2>new vulnerability, a zero day in the rocket Chat software

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<v Speaker 2>by digging into an API function and finding a flawed

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<v Speaker 2>assumption the developers made and.

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<v Speaker 1>They use did during the competition against.

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<v Speaker 2>The competition's own infrastructure. Yeah, it was a powerful demo

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<v Speaker 2>of deep research finding unexpected flaws. The source also brings

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<v Speaker 2>up things like dependency hijacking or supply chain attacks like

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<v Speaker 2>that work by Alex Persan exactly. He showed you could

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<v Speaker 2>sometimes trick companies internal build systems into pulling malicious code

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<v Speaker 2>from public package repositories like piper I or NPM, just

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<v Speaker 2>by giving your malicious package a higher version number than

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<v Speaker 2>the real internal one. Now defenders use tools like repodiff

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<v Speaker 2>to try and spot suspicious changes in dependencies.

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<v Speaker 1>It shows attackers are looking at every single step in

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<v Speaker 1>the process, not just the final application. The source also

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<v Speaker 1>touched on more advanced ways attackers hide where they're coming from.

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<v Speaker 2>Yeah, going beyond just basic VPNs or tour we're talking

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<v Speaker 2>about building complex anonymity networks, chaining multiple encrypted tunnels through

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<v Speaker 2>different cloud providers for instance.

428
00:21:54.119 --> 00:21:55.160
<v Speaker 1>Why has that helped them.

429
00:21:55.200 --> 00:21:58.359
<v Speaker 2>Because no single provider sees the whole picture. The entry

430
00:21:58.359 --> 00:22:00.799
<v Speaker 2>point doesn't know the final destination and the exit point

431
00:22:00.839 --> 00:22:03.799
<v Speaker 2>doesn't know the original source. It makes tracing the traffic

432
00:22:03.839 --> 00:22:05.200
<v Speaker 2>back incredibly difficult.

433
00:22:05.359 --> 00:22:10.000
<v Speaker 1>And those specialized competition networks like CCDC's grid.

434
00:22:09.799 --> 00:22:13.240
<v Speaker 2>That simulates millions of fake Internet addresses in a real

435
00:22:13.279 --> 00:22:17.160
<v Speaker 2>attack that could be like using a massive botnet. It

436
00:22:17.279 --> 00:22:21.000
<v Speaker 2>just overwhelms simple defenses like IP address blocking. It forces

437
00:22:21.039 --> 00:22:24.880
<v Speaker 2>defenders to look beyond simple indicators like IPS and focus

438
00:22:24.920 --> 00:22:26.440
<v Speaker 2>more on behaviors.

439
00:22:26.160 --> 00:22:30.400
<v Speaker 1>And even hiding data within other data stiganography.

440
00:22:29.759 --> 00:22:33.480
<v Speaker 2>YEP, hiding messages or code inside image files, maybe by

441
00:22:33.519 --> 00:22:36.440
<v Speaker 2>slightly altering the color values of pixels a significant bit

442
00:22:36.519 --> 00:22:40.599
<v Speaker 2>or LSB stignography, or even hiding commands and seemingly innocent

443
00:22:40.640 --> 00:22:44.359
<v Speaker 2>text files using whitespace or special control characters. The tool

444
00:22:44.400 --> 00:22:47.720
<v Speaker 2>packet whisper was mentioned using DNS combined with a cipher

445
00:22:47.920 --> 00:22:49.799
<v Speaker 2>to hide stuff in subdomain lookups.

446
00:22:49.880 --> 00:22:53.200
<v Speaker 1>So many layers of hiding. Okay, Finally, the source talks

447
00:22:53.240 --> 00:22:56.400
<v Speaker 1>about what happens after an incident is over the aftermath,

448
00:22:56.640 --> 00:22:57.799
<v Speaker 1>right the post mortem.

449
00:22:57.839 --> 00:23:00.279
<v Speaker 2>This is absolutely crucial, and the source stress is it's

450
00:23:00.319 --> 00:23:04.160
<v Speaker 2>not about blaming people. It's a structured review of what happens.

451
00:23:04.200 --> 00:23:04.759
<v Speaker 1>That's the goal.

452
00:23:05.079 --> 00:23:08.039
<v Speaker 2>To map out the timeline, confirm the root cause analysis

453
00:23:08.039 --> 00:23:10.720
<v Speaker 2>super important again, to prevent it from happening again, and

454
00:23:10.799 --> 00:23:14.160
<v Speaker 2>identify areas where processes or tools could be improved. It

455
00:23:14.200 --> 00:23:17.880
<v Speaker 2>should be a brainstorming session learning from the experience, and.

456
00:23:17.720 --> 00:23:21.160
<v Speaker 1>The source also highlighted publishing results sharing the intel.

457
00:23:21.319 --> 00:23:24.440
<v Speaker 2>Yes, this is huge for the whole community. It connects

458
00:23:24.480 --> 00:23:30.839
<v Speaker 2>to that military concept the F three eight cycle. Find, fix, finish, exploit, analyze,

459
00:23:30.839 --> 00:23:34.160
<v Speaker 2>and crucially disseminate. Share what you learned, like.

460
00:23:34.119 --> 00:23:36.000
<v Speaker 1>The FireEye example after Solar.

461
00:23:35.759 --> 00:23:39.839
<v Speaker 2>Winds perfect example. When FireEye shared the technical details, the

462
00:23:39.920 --> 00:23:44.279
<v Speaker 2>indicators of compromise IOCs, and the attacker techniques they discovered,

463
00:23:44.680 --> 00:23:48.039
<v Speaker 2>it allowed thousands of other organizations worldwide to check their

464
00:23:48.039 --> 00:23:52.000
<v Speaker 2>own systems. It created a kind of herd immunity, uncovering

465
00:23:52.039 --> 00:23:57.480
<v Speaker 2>related compromises and massively boosting collective defense. Sharing makes everyone stronger.

466
00:23:57.759 --> 00:24:00.039
<v Speaker 1>That makes total sense. Wow. Okay, that really was a

467
00:24:00.240 --> 00:24:04.200
<v Speaker 1>deep dive into this world of adversarial tradecraft. Pulling directly

468
00:24:04.200 --> 00:24:06.640
<v Speaker 1>from this source material, we've seen the core principles, the

469
00:24:06.680 --> 00:24:08.920
<v Speaker 1>offense trying to get in and hide, the defense trying

470
00:24:08.920 --> 00:24:12.920
<v Speaker 1>to detect and respond, and this constant intelligence battle driving innovation.

471
00:24:13.400 --> 00:24:17.400
<v Speaker 2>It really hammers home just how dynamic cybersecurity is, doesn't it.

472
00:24:17.400 --> 00:24:21.720
<v Speaker 2>It's not static. Both sides are constantly learning, adapting, pushing

473
00:24:21.720 --> 00:24:25.680
<v Speaker 2>the boundaries. You really have to understand your opponent's likely

474
00:24:25.799 --> 00:24:29.559
<v Speaker 2>moves their playbook, whether you're trying to build defenses or

475
00:24:29.759 --> 00:24:31.559
<v Speaker 2>well test them, and.

476
00:24:31.480 --> 00:24:36.400
<v Speaker 1>Hopefully getting this clearer picture of the strategies, the specific techniques,

477
00:24:36.440 --> 00:24:40.319
<v Speaker 1>and those underlying principles gives you, our listener a better framework,

478
00:24:40.440 --> 00:24:43.079
<v Speaker 1>maybe helps you cut through some of the jargon, understand

479
00:24:43.119 --> 00:24:45.480
<v Speaker 1>the news reports about breaches a bit better, and just

480
00:24:45.519 --> 00:24:47.599
<v Speaker 1>appreciate the complexity behind the headlines.

481
00:24:47.799 --> 00:24:51.519
<v Speaker 2>Yeah, and thinking about that relentless cycle, the innovation, the adaptation,

482
00:24:52.319 --> 00:24:55.359
<v Speaker 2>and you know, just the raw human creativity involved in

483
00:24:55.400 --> 00:24:58.119
<v Speaker 2>both breaking systems and defending them, it kind of leaves

484
00:24:58.119 --> 00:24:59.640
<v Speaker 2>you with a big question, doesn't it.

485
00:25:00.079 --> 00:25:00.839
<v Speaker 1>What's that? Well?

486
00:25:00.839 --> 00:25:03.920
<v Speaker 2>How do organizations, how do we make sure our defenses

487
00:25:03.960 --> 00:25:06.759
<v Speaker 2>can actually keep pace, not just with the threats we

488
00:25:06.799 --> 00:25:10.720
<v Speaker 2>already know about, but with the completely unpredictable innovative stuff

489
00:25:10.759 --> 00:25:14.440
<v Speaker 2>that attackers will inevitably come up with next. What does

490
00:25:14.519 --> 00:25:17.200
<v Speaker 2>that constant pressure to adapt really mean for how we

491
00:25:17.240 --> 00:25:20.160
<v Speaker 2>allocate resources, how we build our defensive strategies in the

492
00:25:20.200 --> 00:25:21.480
<v Speaker 2>real world. It's a tough one.
