Speaker 1: Hi, darling, Hey gorgeous. How are you.
Speaker 2: I am doing just fine. I heard this sound bite
Speaker 2: this morning and I was like, you know, I wonder
Speaker 2: how John Caldera, whose Independence Institute spent gobs and gobs
Speaker 2: of money lowering the income rate in our state, feels
Speaker 2: about hearing the governor say we cut income taxes three times.
Speaker 3: The beautiful thing about being a politician is you can
Speaker 3: always find a defense for we. My guess is he
Speaker 3: did vote for it, and we Coloradden's did vote to
Speaker 3: lower the state's income tax twice now from four point
Speaker 3: sixty three now to only four point four percent.
Speaker 1: Right, So I guess we did, didn't we?
Speaker 2: You know, kind of like on Saturday when the Broncos
Speaker 2: beat the bills, I'm gonna.
Speaker 1: Be like, we why we we?
Speaker 3: Why? Right? One?
Speaker 1: We beat the bills?
Speaker 2: That's right. So now, in all the seriousness, you guys did.
Speaker 1: Spend gobs and gobs of money. You should send him
Speaker 1: a bill.
Speaker 3: John, Well, our supporters and our friends and other great
Speaker 3: organizations helped us with this, and let's talk about what
Speaker 3: he did and didn't do real quickly. What he didn't
Speaker 3: do was object and campaign against the tax cuts. I'll
Speaker 3: take that as a victory. What he did do was
Speaker 3: take credit for those victories after we did it. I'll
Speaker 3: take that too. I would love a politician who proudly
Speaker 3: says we cut taxes in hopes that he will do
Speaker 3: it again.
Speaker 1: What he also did went the other way. He signed
Speaker 1: onto a bill that makes it near impossible for me
Speaker 1: to put another tax cut on the ballot. He passed a.
Speaker 3: Bill and it says that if there's a tax cut,
Speaker 3: there has to be this language on the ballot to
Speaker 3: scare the voters.
Speaker 1: It says, well, you vote for this.
Speaker 3: Tax cut, it will stript money away from education, healthcare,
Speaker 3: and roads right, and puppies and little ladies will die,
Speaker 3: kids will be starving. And when we've tried to petition this,
Speaker 3: we've seen that petition signers will go, ohh, I don't
Speaker 3: want that, even when it was a lie, because we
Speaker 3: had these surpluses and no part of.
Speaker 1: The budget was going to get cut when we tried
Speaker 1: to do this.
Speaker 3: So I don't know how the governor could say he
Speaker 3: loves lower taxes and then vote for bill, sign a
Speaker 3: bill to make it impossible for us to do it,
Speaker 3: and for him to take credit against that. He also
Speaker 3: mentioned three times, and I'll give him partial credit for this.
Speaker 3: He signed on to a bill that temporarily lowered our
Speaker 3: income tax rate as part of a Tabor refund mechanism,
Speaker 3: which no longer applies.
Speaker 1: So there was a temporary little tax. I'll take it.
Speaker 3: You know, what we need to do is lower the
Speaker 3: income tax rate. What what matters is not that politicians
Speaker 3: take credit for things they don't do.
Speaker 1: What else is new?
Speaker 3: What is important is that this legislature is going to
Speaker 3: try to ruin Tabor and raise taxes yet again.
Speaker 1: John, we have to keep on on that.
Speaker 2: Let me ask you about this because I just saw this.
Speaker 2: The new messaging coming from Colorado Democrats seems to be, Hey,
Speaker 2: you know what, we love Tabor too. We love Tabor refunds.
Speaker 2: But what we you know, we want to what we
Speaker 2: want to do is we just want to take the
Speaker 2: rest of that refund. We're gonna still give you guys
Speaker 2: the right to vote on a tax increase, which you
Speaker 2: and I both know is worth nothing because now they
Speaker 2: just keep making everything fees right, so it doesn't matter, right.
Speaker 2: So there, now they've changed the messaging. We want to
Speaker 2: keep the part where you get to vote on higher taxes.
Speaker 2: We just want to take the table refunds to make
Speaker 2: sure that we have enough money for kids and puppies.
Speaker 3: Part of TABOR is a tax and spend limitation on
Speaker 3: the state.
Speaker 1: Now they've already figured out how to legally get around that.
Speaker 1: Yell what is it called.
Speaker 2: I know it's been adjudicated, right, I know that the
Speaker 2: courts have heard it. But you know as well as
Speaker 2: I do. A tax is a fee by another name.
Speaker 2: A fee is a tax by another name.
Speaker 3: There's no difference in wallet cannot tell the difference between
Speaker 3: a tax and a fee.
Speaker 1: But there is something different here. There's a nuance here.
Speaker 3: So let me see if I can grab it, because
Speaker 3: I think it goes right down to the fundamentals of
Speaker 3: democracy and the idea that democracy is under assault.
Speaker 1: Yes it is.
Speaker 3: So when you take something and call it a fee,
Speaker 3: what it does is it pulls it out of the
Speaker 3: state what's called general fund and puts it into another bucket.
Speaker 3: And that other bucket is not controlled by our legislature.
Speaker 3: It is controlled by appointed people in different districts. So
Speaker 3: when TABOR passed nineteen ninety two, less than a third
Speaker 3: of all the money that was spent by the state
Speaker 3: was in that other bucket that was run by non
Speaker 3: elected people. They have grown that bucket so large that
Speaker 3: out all the money that is spent by the state,
Speaker 3: that bucket that is run by other people is now
Speaker 3: two thirds of all.
Speaker 1: The money we saw. We say, let me say it differently.
Speaker 3: The people who are running around screaming democracy is under
Speaker 3: assault have moved most of the government, two thirds of
Speaker 3: the government outside of elected control, our direct elected officials,
Speaker 3: and now put it into the hands of appointed, unaccountable
Speaker 3: people who we cannot vote out of office. They're appointed,
Speaker 3: and so we don't have direct control.
Speaker 1: We don't even have.
Speaker 3: A say in two thirds of our government in Colorado,
Speaker 3: as they scream, no kings, no kings, well yes, I
Speaker 3: agree with you.
Speaker 1: No kings.
Speaker 3: Put that money back into the general fund and let
Speaker 3: us vote if we want to increase the size of
Speaker 3: the budget. No.
Speaker 1: No, they did that so that they didn't have to
Speaker 1: give the money back.
Speaker 2: Yeah, exactly. Okay, I got to stop you there. We
Speaker 2: have two and a half minutes, and you do tend
Speaker 2: to go on. So let me ask you this question.
Speaker 3: Oh you, but you are fascinated by everything, I say, Well, okay,
Speaker 3: so you have men man'splain this a little more for you, honey.
Speaker 2: You have a column on Complete Colorado dot com about
Speaker 2: this legislative session, and you know I have said I
Speaker 2: said it yesterday on the show. From this point forward,
Speaker 2: everything Jared Police does is about his eventual run for president, right,
Speaker 2: I mean, that's what it is. So what are you hoping?
Speaker 2: You know, the labor bill is going to come back.
Speaker 2: There's there's some really onerous crap that is going to
Speaker 2: come through this legislature. Do you have any sort of
Speaker 2: you know, guess about I really be more diligent about.
Speaker 3: I've known Jared for over a quarter of a century
Speaker 3: and it's been painful and hard to watch him do
Speaker 3: all these things that he does not really agree with.
Speaker 3: He's not personally anti gun, but he's ushered in the
Speaker 3: worst gun control laws in the nation.
Speaker 1: He is not pro tax but he has ripped apart taxes.
Speaker 1: He's done special interests.
Speaker 3: He has just outlawing AI basically and putting in regulations.
Speaker 1: This is not him.
Speaker 3: But he can't stand up to the left, to the
Speaker 3: wild progressives. Well, she's got nothing to lose, it says
Speaker 3: the last time at bat Man Up, Jared, be yourself.
Speaker 3: We might actually like you stand up to the progressives.
Speaker 3: They hate your guts now anyway. I mean, it's amazing
Speaker 3: how they talked about the governor. Now they're ready for
Speaker 3: him to go, and they're planning for when he's gone,
Speaker 3: what's gonna happen.
Speaker 1: So you're not loved by anyone.
Speaker 3: He is the Rodney danger Field of Colorado, which is
Speaker 3: really empowering in a way.
Speaker 1: So you can be yourself.
Speaker 3: If everybody hates you, no matter what you do, go
Speaker 3: do the right thing or go be you. And so
Speaker 3: I'm hopeful that this session we might get a look
Speaker 3: into what Jared really is. Last thought, if Jared had
Speaker 3: a Republican legislature, he probably would have been one of
Speaker 3: the best governors in the country. He would keep the
Speaker 3: legislature from doing foolish socially conservative stuff, but on business
Speaker 3: friendly stuff he'd probably agree.
Speaker 1: It would have been wonderful.
Speaker 3: And there's a civil war brewing inside the Democratic ranks
Speaker 3: and it could explode this session, and that being between
Speaker 3: normal Democrats and socialists, and they're really starting to go
Speaker 3: at it.
Speaker 1: I hope.
Speaker 2: So from your lips to God's heer, Sean John Caldera,
Speaker 2: he is the for some god forsaken reason they let
Speaker 2: him be in charge at the Independence Institute.
Speaker 3: It's worth Oh by the way, Yeah, I loved your
Speaker 3: Last Man show.
Speaker 2: You mean on the Independence Institute's YouTube channel, John, Is
Speaker 2: that what you're talking about.
Speaker 1: I didn't know that. I mean IV three, No, I
Speaker 1: did not know it was on that station. Actually, it's
Speaker 1: a kick to watch you and Deborah Floor go uh
Speaker 1: talk about different things. It's been a lot of fun.
Speaker 1: All right, my friend, I'll talk to you soon.