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Sign 22 00:00:55.359 --> 00:00:58.039 up now at Chumba casino dot com. 23 00:00:57.840 --> 00:01:00.320 No personesses every d every by Lost Eaters is his 24 00:01:00.399 --> 00:01:00.840 eating club. 25 00:01:08.040 --> 00:01:11.480 You are now listening to True Murder, the most shocking 26 00:01:11.560 --> 00:01:14.599 killers in true crime history and the authors that have 27 00:01:14.680 --> 00:01:21.959 written about them. Gaesy Bundy Dahmer, The Nightstalker DTK every 28 00:01:22.000 --> 00:01:25.680 week another fascinating author talking about the most shocking and 29 00:01:25.799 --> 00:01:30.319 infamous killers in true crime history. True Murder with your host, 30 00:01:30.680 --> 00:01:34.400 journalist and author Dan Zufanski. 31 00:01:43.319 --> 00:01:46.200 Good evening. All it took for one hundred people to 32 00:01:46.280 --> 00:01:48.760 die during a show by the hair metal band Great 33 00:01:48.799 --> 00:01:52.560 White was a sudden burst from four giant sparklers that 34 00:01:52.680 --> 00:01:57.200 ignited the acoustical foam lining the Station nightclub. But who 35 00:01:57.280 --> 00:02:00.959 was that fault and who would pay? This? Being Rhode Island, 36 00:02:01.000 --> 00:02:05.280 the two questions wouldn't necessarily have the same answer. Within 37 00:02:05.319 --> 00:02:07.359 twenty four hours, the Governor of Rhode Island and the 38 00:02:07.359 --> 00:02:11.080 local police chief were calling for criminal charges. Although the 39 00:02:11.120 --> 00:02:15.039 investigation had barely begun, key evidence still needed to be gathered, 40 00:02:15.159 --> 00:02:19.240 and many of the victims hadn't been identified. Though many 41 00:02:19.280 --> 00:02:22.879 parties could be held responsible, Fingers pointed quickly at the 42 00:02:22.919 --> 00:02:26.199 two brothers who owned the club, But were they really 43 00:02:26.240 --> 00:02:29.879 to blame. Best selling author and three time Emmy Award 44 00:02:29.960 --> 00:02:34.960 winning journalist Scott James investigates all the central figures, including 45 00:02:35.000 --> 00:02:38.879 the band's manager and lead singer, the fire inspector, the 46 00:02:38.919 --> 00:02:41.879 maker of the acoustical foam, as well as the brothers. 47 00:02:42.759 --> 00:02:45.759 Drawing on first and accounts interviews with many involved in 48 00:02:45.840 --> 00:02:49.520 court documents, James explores the rush to judgment about what 49 00:02:49.680 --> 00:02:53.000 happened that left the victims and their families, whose stories 50 00:02:53.000 --> 00:02:58.520 he also tells, desperate for justice. Trial by Fire is 51 00:02:58.560 --> 00:03:02.400 the heart wrenching story of the fire's aftermath because while 52 00:03:02.479 --> 00:03:06.919 the fire, one of America's deadliest, lasted minutes, the search 53 00:03:06.960 --> 00:03:10.280 for the truth would take years. The book that we're 54 00:03:10.280 --> 00:03:14.159 featuring this seating is Trial by Fire, a devastating tragedy, 55 00:03:14.560 --> 00:03:18.439 one hundred lives lost, and a fifteen year search for truth, 56 00:03:19.080 --> 00:03:22.800 with my special guest, journalist and author, Scott James. Welcome 57 00:03:22.800 --> 00:03:24.919 to the program, and thank you so much for this interview. 58 00:03:25.319 --> 00:03:28.159 Scott James, Hey, thank you for having me, Dan, I 59 00:03:28.199 --> 00:03:28.840 appreciate it. 60 00:03:29.319 --> 00:03:31.960 Thank you so much. As I just mentioned before we 61 00:03:32.000 --> 00:03:35.719 went on the air, this is an incredibly exciting book 62 00:03:36.000 --> 00:03:38.680 and it is a heart wrenching book at the same time, 63 00:03:39.039 --> 00:03:42.479 it's hard not to shed some tears at these very, 64 00:03:42.560 --> 00:03:46.960 very very personal stories of devastation and this trial by fire. 65 00:03:47.719 --> 00:03:55.960 Let's start just by just your connection to these owners 66 00:03:56.080 --> 00:04:01.639 of this club, sure, the Durindians, and just briefly your 67 00:04:01.759 --> 00:04:08.680 background and what really brought you to this story. 68 00:04:08.840 --> 00:04:11.439 Well, should probably start by explaining to the basics to 69 00:04:11.439 --> 00:04:15.159 folks about what exactly happened here. So this is February twentieth, 70 00:04:15.719 --> 00:04:19.199 two thousand and three. Rock band Great White sets off 71 00:04:19.199 --> 00:04:22.040 fireworks and in a matter of minutes, this nightclub becomes 72 00:04:22.079 --> 00:04:24.639 an inferno. When one hundred people are dead, hundreds of 73 00:04:24.639 --> 00:04:28.399 others are injured. The ripple effect is felt by the 74 00:04:28.519 --> 00:04:31.759 thousands in this community. It's really tightened the community of 75 00:04:31.839 --> 00:04:34.839 Rhode Island, the smallest state where it seems like everybody 76 00:04:34.959 --> 00:04:38.920 is connected to everybody else. And I grew up in 77 00:04:38.959 --> 00:04:42.519 a suburb of Providence, and so I really consider this 78 00:04:42.560 --> 00:04:45.439 to be the worst thing to happen where I grew up. 79 00:04:45.800 --> 00:04:48.720 But I have long ago, and many many years before 80 00:04:48.759 --> 00:04:51.399 the fire, had moved to California and was not really 81 00:04:51.480 --> 00:04:55.160 part of the community there. But I would come home, 82 00:04:55.199 --> 00:04:57.920 and I'm a journalist and I worked in television and 83 00:04:57.959 --> 00:05:00.519 the newspapers, and I would come home to see my 84 00:05:00.560 --> 00:05:03.120 family and friends a few times a year and people 85 00:05:03.160 --> 00:05:06.360 would say, you know this fire. While these people died, 86 00:05:06.800 --> 00:05:11.079 they were never any trials. Everything was settled plea bargained settlements, 87 00:05:11.120 --> 00:05:14.759 and so nothing was really vetted in court, and there 88 00:05:14.759 --> 00:05:18.920 were a lot of unanswered questions, and people thought that 89 00:05:18.959 --> 00:05:22.439 there had been a miscarriage of justice, that justice was 90 00:05:22.480 --> 00:05:24.399 not served, that there had been a rush to judgement, 91 00:05:24.399 --> 00:05:27.519 all these questions, and so about ten years ago I 92 00:05:27.639 --> 00:05:31.480 decided to start looking into the case. I did have 93 00:05:31.519 --> 00:05:34.439 an edge over some of the other journalists who pursued 94 00:05:34.480 --> 00:05:38.680 this story because two of the central figures, the nightclub 95 00:05:39.160 --> 00:05:42.079 business owners, they didn't actually own the building. They owned 96 00:05:42.079 --> 00:05:46.680 the business. These two guys, Jeffrey and Michael Didarien. And 97 00:05:46.800 --> 00:05:49.439 when I was a news director in Providence, so it 98 00:05:49.480 --> 00:05:53.240 means basically, I'm the person who oversaw a TV news 99 00:05:53.240 --> 00:05:57.800 department for many years, one of my employees was a 100 00:05:57.800 --> 00:06:00.879 reporter named Jeffrey de Darien. He would turn out to 101 00:06:00.920 --> 00:06:04.560 be the co owner of this club. So I thought, well, 102 00:06:04.600 --> 00:06:06.279 we're going to look into this. I'll go to Jeffrey 103 00:06:06.279 --> 00:06:10.079 because we'd worked together, even though as many more than 104 00:06:10.120 --> 00:06:12.639 twenty five years ago now, but at least I knew him, 105 00:06:12.639 --> 00:06:14.800 and I thought perhaps he would speak to me. And 106 00:06:14.839 --> 00:06:17.879 what I discovered was that even though Jeffrey had been 107 00:06:17.920 --> 00:06:20.759 a TV news reporter and a journalist himself, he and 108 00:06:20.800 --> 00:06:24.360 his brother hated journalists. They felt that they had been 109 00:06:24.399 --> 00:06:28.199 mistreated by the media, had had vowed never again to 110 00:06:28.240 --> 00:06:31.879 speak to another reporter or journalist. And so I come 111 00:06:31.879 --> 00:06:35.680 into the picture, and it actually took years to gain 112 00:06:35.920 --> 00:06:39.480 Jeffrey's trust, to get him to tell me anything, and 113 00:06:39.600 --> 00:06:41.519 to get him to introduce me to his Michael brother, 114 00:06:41.639 --> 00:06:45.560 his brother Michael, and that after that, other people came forward. 115 00:06:45.680 --> 00:06:47.759 Other people told me their stories for the first time, 116 00:06:47.759 --> 00:06:52.560 and it was really illuminating that much of what the 117 00:06:52.600 --> 00:06:57.000 public had been told about the fire turned out there 118 00:06:57.040 --> 00:06:59.920 were other facts to consider. And so the book really 119 00:07:00.279 --> 00:07:02.160 for the first time, kind of lays out all the 120 00:07:02.199 --> 00:07:04.240 facts of this case so that people can desire for 121 00:07:04.279 --> 00:07:07.720 themselves what happened, Was it a crime, and if it 122 00:07:07.879 --> 00:07:11.759 was a crime, who was really guilty. 123 00:07:11.920 --> 00:07:13.920 You talk about some of the characters that you were 124 00:07:14.000 --> 00:07:18.680 able to have access to, and survivors and people involved 125 00:07:19.040 --> 00:07:23.399 in this incredible fire, and one of those is Fred Chrysotomy. 126 00:07:24.160 --> 00:07:29.680 You chronicle his story with his fiance, Gina Russo, and 127 00:07:29.759 --> 00:07:33.639 so you open the book basically with Fred and Gina 128 00:07:33.720 --> 00:07:35.879 come into this concert and the reason why they even 129 00:07:36.680 --> 00:07:39.120 came to the club in the first place, and the 130 00:07:39.240 --> 00:07:42.519 idea that Fred had forgotten his crucifix. Tell us a 131 00:07:42.560 --> 00:07:46.439 little bit about Fred and Gina and just introduce these 132 00:07:46.680 --> 00:07:48.560 very very important characters. 133 00:07:49.079 --> 00:07:52.279 Well, it's really interestingly how so much of this tragedy, 134 00:07:53.199 --> 00:07:57.839 decisions that seem, you know, possibly unimportant, turned out to 135 00:07:57.920 --> 00:08:02.199 be consequential and our life decisions. So this the book 136 00:08:02.279 --> 00:08:05.319 opens with Fred and Gina in the car and they 137 00:08:05.399 --> 00:08:09.040 just parked. First of all, they kind of a new 138 00:08:09.079 --> 00:08:11.920 relationship less than a year old, but they had fallen 139 00:08:11.959 --> 00:08:15.120 in love and it was not their first time. Gina 140 00:08:15.279 --> 00:08:20.000 was divorced with kids, but they were in love and 141 00:08:20.480 --> 00:08:22.600 did everything together. Fred was the life of the party, 142 00:08:22.720 --> 00:08:25.439 always could have to He was always itching to do something. 143 00:08:25.519 --> 00:08:28.079 This is that type of guy, larger than life character. 144 00:08:29.079 --> 00:08:31.720 And they'd gone to a movie and the movie had 145 00:08:31.720 --> 00:08:33.960 already started, and they're like, well, we don't want to 146 00:08:33.960 --> 00:08:36.480 see a movie. It's already started, So what else can 147 00:08:36.519 --> 00:08:39.000 we do, and eventually they decided to go to this club, 148 00:08:39.039 --> 00:08:42.000 this nightclub with this band's Great Jack Russell's Great White 149 00:08:42.039 --> 00:08:44.600 is about to perform. So they get there and they 150 00:08:44.600 --> 00:08:49.240 park and Fred realizes that he's left his good luck cross, 151 00:08:50.200 --> 00:08:52.679 probably at home. Probably he probably took it off while 152 00:08:52.720 --> 00:08:55.240 he was showering and forgot to put it back on. 153 00:08:55.600 --> 00:08:57.600 Now he's only a few minutes away from the club, 154 00:08:57.759 --> 00:08:59.639 and they actually have a little discussion in the car, like, 155 00:08:59.679 --> 00:09:03.120 well we go back and get it, And eventually Fred says, 156 00:09:03.159 --> 00:09:05.879 you know what, you know whatever, but I'm not gonna 157 00:09:06.080 --> 00:09:07.879 you know, I'm not Jewelry is not a big deal 158 00:09:07.919 --> 00:09:11.639 to me, so let's just go in. That decision to 159 00:09:11.759 --> 00:09:14.639 go into that club rather than go home and get 160 00:09:14.639 --> 00:09:17.200 that good luck cross and put it on, was a 161 00:09:17.279 --> 00:09:19.559 life and death decision. By going to that club. They 162 00:09:19.559 --> 00:09:22.200 were there when the show actually started. They were there 163 00:09:22.200 --> 00:09:25.279 when the band took the stage and let out those fireworks. 164 00:09:25.639 --> 00:09:28.399 The fireworks ignited the foam and on the inside of 165 00:09:28.399 --> 00:09:32.039 the club walls, foam that should have been sound. Foam 166 00:09:32.159 --> 00:09:34.639 that should have been you know, sound, should have been 167 00:09:34.639 --> 00:09:39.799 fire proof, fire resistance, but instead was packing foam. The 168 00:09:39.840 --> 00:09:42.960 type of foam you've been using in sending things in 169 00:09:43.000 --> 00:09:46.799 the mail, which is highly flammable. It's an accelerant, it's 170 00:09:46.840 --> 00:09:50.840 the equivalent of solid gasoline. In fact, a federal investigation 171 00:09:50.879 --> 00:09:54.240 would determined that the walls of the nightclub were had 172 00:09:54.279 --> 00:09:58.440 about thirteen gallons of gasoline, the equivalent of thirteen gallons 173 00:09:58.440 --> 00:10:01.159 of gasoline on the wall. So when that fire started, 174 00:10:02.200 --> 00:10:04.440 it just went off like a torch. Well, Fred and 175 00:10:04.480 --> 00:10:07.879 Gina were right in the front row, and he immediately 176 00:10:07.919 --> 00:10:10.720 senses danger. A lot of people did not sense danger. 177 00:10:10.759 --> 00:10:16.759 In fact, when the fire started, people mostly didn't move. 178 00:10:16.919 --> 00:10:19.519 They were there dancing and cheering and seeing the columns 179 00:10:19.559 --> 00:10:22.480 of flames and thinking that it was part of the show. 180 00:10:22.600 --> 00:10:26.039 I mean, we see pyrotechnics at rock concerts all the time. 181 00:10:26.559 --> 00:10:31.279 So many people were doomed because they stood there thinking 182 00:10:31.360 --> 00:10:34.320 this was part of a special effect, and they did 183 00:10:34.320 --> 00:10:38.399 not run for the exits, and they died. Fred immediately 184 00:10:38.440 --> 00:10:42.360 senses this problem, and so he tries to get Gina out, 185 00:10:42.639 --> 00:10:44.679 and they try. First, they tried to go through the 186 00:10:45.399 --> 00:10:48.879 stage door, which is close to where they are, but 187 00:10:48.919 --> 00:10:53.480 they're turned back because well, that actually becomes a real 188 00:10:53.960 --> 00:10:56.799 debate in the investigation as to what happened? Why were 189 00:10:56.879 --> 00:11:00.480 they turned back? We know now that that door was 190 00:11:00.519 --> 00:11:03.840 shut during shows and had to remain shut because there 191 00:11:03.840 --> 00:11:05.919 were so many complaints that by the neighbors about the 192 00:11:05.919 --> 00:11:07.960 noise coming from this rock and roll club, and that 193 00:11:08.120 --> 00:11:10.000 door was right next to the stage, so if the 194 00:11:10.039 --> 00:11:12.200 door was open, the sound went into the neighborhood. The 195 00:11:12.200 --> 00:11:15.600 neighbors called the police. So the door was watched carefully 196 00:11:15.679 --> 00:11:17.759 and kept closed during the performance. And there is a 197 00:11:17.799 --> 00:11:21.080 performance happening as Fred sees these calumns of flames and says, 198 00:11:21.120 --> 00:11:23.200 we've got to get out. So they're turned away from 199 00:11:23.240 --> 00:11:26.320 the door that is closest to where they are, and 200 00:11:26.360 --> 00:11:30.360 they had, like almost everyone else did, eventually towards the 201 00:11:30.399 --> 00:11:32.039 way they came in. That's kind of the way our 202 00:11:32.840 --> 00:11:36.200 minds are wired, right, and the panic we're going to say, 203 00:11:36.279 --> 00:11:37.799 how do I get out of here? And what your 204 00:11:37.799 --> 00:11:39.679 brain knows is, well, you know how you got in, 205 00:11:40.039 --> 00:11:42.440 that's the way you should get out. Well, when hundreds 206 00:11:42.480 --> 00:11:45.200 of people all head to the same door simultaneously, it 207 00:11:45.240 --> 00:11:49.320 created a traffic jam and eventually literally a pile of 208 00:11:49.360 --> 00:11:52.200 people at the door that prevented people from getting out. 209 00:11:52.519 --> 00:11:56.200 And that's part of the reason why one hundred people died, 210 00:11:56.639 --> 00:11:59.720 and they died. It happened very fast. It's hard for 211 00:11:59.799 --> 00:12:03.720 us to imagine this, but within seconds that fire near 212 00:12:03.759 --> 00:12:08.000 the stage was something like fourteen hundred degrees and then 213 00:12:08.080 --> 00:12:11.200 within ninety seconds the place was filled with this black 214 00:12:11.679 --> 00:12:14.320 smoke that was deadly. And if you were inside that 215 00:12:14.519 --> 00:12:19.039 building at ninety seconds after that fire started, you most 216 00:12:19.120 --> 00:12:20.120 likely did not get out. 217 00:12:21.919 --> 00:12:25.000 Tell us for the reason for this this foam and 218 00:12:25.279 --> 00:12:28.679 why this highly flammable foam was installed in this club. 219 00:12:29.159 --> 00:12:31.919 But let's go back a little bit to the ownership 220 00:12:31.960 --> 00:12:35.919 of this club and the real we You mentioned that 221 00:12:36.000 --> 00:12:41.200 you were Jeffrey's boss at one time in journalism, TV broadcasting, 222 00:12:41.799 --> 00:12:44.799 So what was the Jeffreys interest in his brother in 223 00:12:44.879 --> 00:12:48.120 this club and what was the state of the club 224 00:12:48.200 --> 00:12:53.639 in terms of ownership just recently in terms of I 225 00:12:53.679 --> 00:12:54.399 think some. 226 00:12:56.240 --> 00:12:59.639 People who are from New England might remember an old 227 00:12:59.720 --> 00:13:04.559 chain of Italian restaurants called Papa Brillows, and this was 228 00:13:04.600 --> 00:13:07.399 an old Papa Brillos restaurant that had been converted into 229 00:13:07.440 --> 00:13:09.279 a rock and roll club. I mean, it's about as 230 00:13:10.480 --> 00:13:14.240 basic you can get in terms of a public venue. 231 00:13:14.320 --> 00:13:19.399 And so Jeffery worked in television news. After he worked 232 00:13:19.399 --> 00:13:22.240 for me, he went on to actually be quite successful 233 00:13:22.600 --> 00:13:26.759 working in Boston at a TV station, their WHDH Channel seven, 234 00:13:26.879 --> 00:13:29.720 really one of the premier local TV stations in the nation, 235 00:13:30.360 --> 00:13:33.919 and he was one of their star reporters. And so 236 00:13:34.320 --> 00:13:38.120 when something happened nationally like the Columbine shootings, they put 237 00:13:38.159 --> 00:13:39.919 him on a plane and he would report from there. 238 00:13:40.320 --> 00:13:43.759 He would be reported from nine to eleven. He did 239 00:13:44.399 --> 00:13:47.120 live shots and reporting for the Today Show as an 240 00:13:47.200 --> 00:13:50.799 NBC affiliate. So he was at the top of his career. 241 00:13:51.240 --> 00:13:53.159 But as many of us who work in the news 242 00:13:53.200 --> 00:13:56.240 media have witnessed over the time, and he was an 243 00:13:56.240 --> 00:13:58.279 early witness to this, this is not a very stable 244 00:13:58.320 --> 00:14:00.480 business to be in as far as law, long term 245 00:14:00.519 --> 00:14:04.559 career survival was concerned. And also the media landscape was changing, 246 00:14:05.200 --> 00:14:07.399 as we've seen, you know, a lot of news organizations 247 00:14:07.480 --> 00:14:10.519 have downsized or gone out of business. He was starting 248 00:14:10.519 --> 00:14:12.600 to see this happen and he thought that he should 249 00:14:12.679 --> 00:14:16.480 have something else in his life besides being the TV 250 00:14:16.559 --> 00:14:20.639 news reporter to support his family. And so his brother, 251 00:14:20.720 --> 00:14:23.879 who was a local businessman, had had several different ventures. 252 00:14:23.879 --> 00:14:26.039 He went to his brother and said, hey, we should 253 00:14:26.039 --> 00:14:28.639 do some business venture together so we can have some 254 00:14:28.679 --> 00:14:32.120 sort of other stable income in our lives besides, you know, 255 00:14:32.200 --> 00:14:35.039 for him TV news, And they looked at a laundry 256 00:14:35.279 --> 00:14:38.440 chain that they thought about purchasing as an investment, and 257 00:14:38.480 --> 00:14:42.240 that felt through and then this nightclub business was for sale. 258 00:14:42.320 --> 00:14:44.720 It was just the business. The club itself. The building 259 00:14:44.720 --> 00:14:48.000 itself was owned by someone else, in fact, owned by 260 00:14:48.000 --> 00:14:51.960 the person who owned those Papa Brillo restaurants had an 261 00:14:51.960 --> 00:14:55.879 investment in that, so they didn't actually own the building. 262 00:14:55.919 --> 00:14:58.879 The building was quite old, dated back to I think 263 00:14:58.919 --> 00:15:01.879 the twenties or third when it was originally built, and 264 00:15:01.960 --> 00:15:05.039 it was originally built as a public venue. In fact, 265 00:15:05.159 --> 00:15:07.840 they had live music back in the band of the 266 00:15:07.960 --> 00:15:10.159 days of the big bands they were playing in there. 267 00:15:10.639 --> 00:15:12.519 And so as a result of that, because it was 268 00:15:12.600 --> 00:15:17.519 always a public venue for entertainment on and offering, it's 269 00:15:17.639 --> 00:15:21.559 time it was grandfathered. So what that means for people 270 00:15:21.559 --> 00:15:24.399 that don't know is that basically the fire codes that 271 00:15:24.519 --> 00:15:29.440 applied early to when the building was built and expanded 272 00:15:29.440 --> 00:15:33.120 and established were in force, and so it was not 273 00:15:33.279 --> 00:15:36.679 subject to the most modern fire codes. It did not 274 00:15:37.000 --> 00:15:41.159 have sprinklers. Sprinklers or a technology that dates back to 275 00:15:41.200 --> 00:15:44.679 the eighteen hundreds, but they were not required in this 276 00:15:44.720 --> 00:15:50.360 particular building because of this grandfathering. So when this fire happens, 277 00:15:50.399 --> 00:15:53.559 and when this follm is ignited, it goes up like 278 00:15:53.600 --> 00:15:59.279 a torch. People have no protection from sprinklers, and we 279 00:15:59.360 --> 00:16:01.879 know this sprinkler probably would have saved every single life 280 00:16:01.960 --> 00:16:06.039 because just a couple nights earlier in Minneapolis, an almost 281 00:16:06.080 --> 00:16:09.480 identical situation happened. We were a rock band set off 282 00:16:09.519 --> 00:16:13.879 fireworks indoors in a club that set the acoustic foam 283 00:16:14.039 --> 00:16:18.480 on fire, but that building had sprinklers and every single 284 00:16:18.519 --> 00:16:22.399 person survived. So yeah, a lot of things isn't wrong 285 00:16:22.559 --> 00:16:26.200 on a lot of different ways that led to this tragedy. 286 00:16:26.240 --> 00:16:28.039 People who often refer to it as kind of the 287 00:16:28.080 --> 00:16:31.279 perfect storm of fires because so many things went wrong 288 00:16:31.360 --> 00:16:34.039 all at the same time. If fireworks were not legal, 289 00:16:34.080 --> 00:16:37.440 it was not legal to light off fireworks inside that nightclub. 290 00:16:37.919 --> 00:16:43.480 These were fifteen foot arcs of sparks in a club 291 00:16:43.480 --> 00:16:46.919 that had twelve foot ceiling, so the decision to light 292 00:16:46.960 --> 00:16:50.799 them off was not very smart. It was definitely illegal 293 00:16:50.919 --> 00:16:52.799 in the state of Rhoe Island to have those fireworks 294 00:16:52.840 --> 00:16:56.200 and to use them indoors. The band would claim that 295 00:16:56.279 --> 00:17:00.440 they had permission from the nightclub business own owners to 296 00:17:00.480 --> 00:17:04.000 do this the Jadarian brothers, but the ja Darian brothers 297 00:17:04.000 --> 00:17:07.319 have always maintained that that is not true. And within 298 00:17:07.400 --> 00:17:10.359 twenty four hours of the fire, the New York Times 299 00:17:10.359 --> 00:17:12.960 actually did an investigation because the band had claimed that 300 00:17:13.000 --> 00:17:15.039 they had permission to do fireworks, and they went to 301 00:17:15.640 --> 00:17:19.640 several of the venues that it hosted the shows by 302 00:17:19.680 --> 00:17:21.920 the same band in the days leading up to the 303 00:17:21.920 --> 00:17:25.640 fire and found one after another after another said that 304 00:17:25.680 --> 00:17:29.920 the band let off fireworks without permission in their clubs too. 305 00:17:30.359 --> 00:17:32.240 Probably the most famous on that list was a place 306 00:17:32.279 --> 00:17:34.920 called the Stone Pony, which is known as kind of 307 00:17:34.920 --> 00:17:37.880 where Bruce Springsteen and the EA Street Band got their 308 00:17:37.920 --> 00:17:41.720 start down in Asbury Park, New Jersey, and that nightclub 309 00:17:41.759 --> 00:17:44.359 owner was so angry that the band had set off 310 00:17:44.359 --> 00:17:48.200 fireworks there without permission and that he saw what happened 311 00:17:48.759 --> 00:17:51.839 in Rhode Island, and so he released all the contracts 312 00:17:51.880 --> 00:17:54.559 that the band had signed down in New Jersey and 313 00:17:54.640 --> 00:17:57.519 it showed, you know, these riders are very specific for 314 00:17:57.720 --> 00:17:59.640 rock bands, you know, down to like the type of 315 00:17:59.680 --> 00:18:02.160 potation chips are going to serve in the Green room. 316 00:18:02.920 --> 00:18:05.920 But there's no mention in any of that paperwork about 317 00:18:06.000 --> 00:18:09.240 fireworks or pyrotechnics, and yet it happened. And the guy 318 00:18:09.400 --> 00:18:11.319 was livid when it happened. I guess he read them 319 00:18:11.319 --> 00:18:14.119 the Riot Act and then when he saw what happened 320 00:18:14.160 --> 00:18:16.240 in Rhode Island, he went public and said, you know, 321 00:18:16.240 --> 00:18:18.400 they did the same thing to me. You know, we 322 00:18:18.400 --> 00:18:21.359 were lucky that we didn't die, but they did the 323 00:18:21.400 --> 00:18:23.880 same thing here. So there were a lot of questions 324 00:18:24.359 --> 00:18:26.960 about did the band have permission, did the band not 325 00:18:27.119 --> 00:18:31.000 have permission? But whether or not they had permission, it 326 00:18:31.319 --> 00:18:34.519 was illegal to set off those harroworks. 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This story is full of 362 00:19:58.039 --> 00:20:02.079 so many twists, and many of them incredibly cruel. Possibly 363 00:20:02.240 --> 00:20:06.640 one of the cruelest twists was that this tragedy was 364 00:20:06.680 --> 00:20:11.519 captured on video from inside the nightclub. So in twenty twenty, 365 00:20:11.559 --> 00:20:14.400 we're very used to the idea of things being caught 366 00:20:14.440 --> 00:20:17.240 on video. It happens all the time. But in two 367 00:20:17.279 --> 00:20:20.200 thousand and three, the iPhone had not even been invented yet, 368 00:20:20.359 --> 00:20:23.079 so it is extremely rare to cast for something on video. 369 00:20:23.720 --> 00:20:26.079 But at the club on the night of this tragedy 370 00:20:26.279 --> 00:20:31.640 inside was a local TV news videographer basically a photojournalist 371 00:20:31.640 --> 00:20:33.680 for one of the local TV stations, who is there 372 00:20:33.720 --> 00:20:36.119 shooting what they call broll. B Roll is kind of 373 00:20:36.200 --> 00:20:39.240 generic footage that's going to be used later by the 374 00:20:39.279 --> 00:20:45.480 reporter to cover in their story. So the photojournist is 375 00:20:45.519 --> 00:20:47.599 there to shoot b roll for this upcoming story, and 376 00:20:47.640 --> 00:20:49.720 you can't make this up. The story he was working 377 00:20:49.720 --> 00:20:54.240 on was one about public venue safety, So he is 378 00:20:54.440 --> 00:20:58.319 rolling as the band takes the stage, as the fireworks 379 00:20:58.319 --> 00:21:03.359 go off, as the flame the stage turns into columns 380 00:21:03.400 --> 00:21:07.079 of flames. This is why we know there's thirty seconds 381 00:21:07.119 --> 00:21:11.519 between when the fire starts and when panic really sets 382 00:21:11.559 --> 00:21:14.200 in in the crowd, because it's all caught on tape. 383 00:21:14.440 --> 00:21:16.559 It is probably one of the most documented fires in 384 00:21:16.559 --> 00:21:20.279 the history of United States. This fire is taught to 385 00:21:20.960 --> 00:21:25.319 every fire investigator in the United States and most firefighters 386 00:21:25.720 --> 00:21:28.279 study this fire as an example of how all things 387 00:21:28.279 --> 00:21:33.200 can go wrong. At the same time, that videotape, as 388 00:21:33.599 --> 00:21:36.759 horrible as it is, is actually used as a learning 389 00:21:36.799 --> 00:21:41.440 tool now and probably has prevented many other people from 390 00:21:41.519 --> 00:21:44.839 dying because firefighters use this as a training tool. But yeah, 391 00:21:45.000 --> 00:21:49.599 just awful. A twist yet another in this case, whereas 392 00:21:49.640 --> 00:21:54.559 it all was caught on tape. 393 00:21:53.839 --> 00:21:56.680 Now we didn't talk about and it comes up later 394 00:21:56.720 --> 00:22:00.160 as well. But there was a reason why the brothers 395 00:22:00.880 --> 00:22:03.400 put this foam in this in their in their club, 396 00:22:04.319 --> 00:22:07.880 but also the reasons why somebody wanted that foam to 397 00:22:07.920 --> 00:22:10.000 be there for them to make those kinds of changes. 398 00:22:10.519 --> 00:22:11.400 Tell us about that. 399 00:22:12.200 --> 00:22:15.640 Well, it's really interesting where we hear about, you know, 400 00:22:17.319 --> 00:22:21.279 neighborhood squabbles about zoning and things like that. This is 401 00:22:21.359 --> 00:22:25.839