WEBVTT 1 00:00:27.879 --> 00:00:30.480 Welcome back to the Path Went Chili, and once again 2 00:00:30.559 --> 00:00:32.880 it's just going to be Jewels and myself doing our 3 00:00:32.920 --> 00:00:35.759 next series of episodes because, as you probably know, Ashley 4 00:00:35.799 --> 00:00:37.840 has started a new career as a teacher, so she 5 00:00:37.960 --> 00:00:40.280 is quite busy right now. So we're giving her a 6 00:00:40.320 --> 00:00:42.600 break and we're going to go back to our format 7 00:00:42.640 --> 00:00:44.960 where I share the details of a case with Jewels 8 00:00:45.000 --> 00:00:47.479 that she's not familiar with, and she will give off 9 00:00:47.479 --> 00:00:50.600 her reaction to all the information I share. So, Jules, 10 00:00:50.600 --> 00:00:52.679 have you heard of the murder of Ronda Hinson? 11 00:00:53.479 --> 00:00:55.159 This one isn't ringing any bells for me? 12 00:00:55.920 --> 00:00:58.399 Okay. It was featured on Unsolved Mysteries and I covered 13 00:00:58.439 --> 00:01:00.280 it on The Trail Went Cold all the way back 14 00:01:00.280 --> 00:01:03.479 on episode number four, which would have been nine years ago. 15 00:01:04.120 --> 00:01:08.319 And I remember in twenty nineteen, an independent journalist named 16 00:01:08.480 --> 00:01:11.959 Larry Griffin started publishing a new series of articles about 17 00:01:12.000 --> 00:01:15.079 the case in a North Carolina based publication called The 18 00:01:15.120 --> 00:01:18.760 Wilkes Record. And this was a major deep dive involving 19 00:01:18.799 --> 00:01:21.760 tons of research where we learned pretty much everything about 20 00:01:21.799 --> 00:01:24.400 Ronda's life, the other people in her life, and the case. 21 00:01:24.879 --> 00:01:27.079 And I learned so much more new information about this 22 00:01:27.159 --> 00:01:29.519 case that I did not know before, and I figured 23 00:01:29.640 --> 00:01:31.879 I'm going to have to revisit this one sometime on 24 00:01:31.920 --> 00:01:34.439 the trail went cold. But the problem is is that 25 00:01:34.519 --> 00:01:37.719 a series of articles just kept going and going and going, 26 00:01:37.760 --> 00:01:40.000 and he kept publishing new ones, and he made it 27 00:01:40.040 --> 00:01:42.959 all the way to part eighty nine. There were literally 28 00:01:43.079 --> 00:01:46.319 eighty nine articles about this and it did not conclude 29 00:01:46.400 --> 00:01:50.480 until twenty twenty one. I did finally revisit this case 30 00:01:50.519 --> 00:01:54.200 on a Patreon exclusive bonus episode I released in December 31 00:01:54.239 --> 00:01:56.879 of twenty twenty three, but I wanted to go back 32 00:01:56.879 --> 00:01:58.400 to it now, and I've thought it would be fun 33 00:01:58.439 --> 00:01:59.719 for us to discuss the case. 34 00:02:00.560 --> 00:02:02.439 Wow, that's so in depth. 35 00:02:02.640 --> 00:02:05.799 That sounds like Tim and Lance's coverage of Mara Murray 36 00:02:06.040 --> 00:02:10.719 just so right into the minutia. 37 00:02:09.439 --> 00:02:12.680 Exactly like you pretty much learn everything about Ronda's life. 38 00:02:12.719 --> 00:02:14.520 And of course it caused me to look at this 39 00:02:14.599 --> 00:02:17.879 case in an entirely different life because the Unsaw Mystery 40 00:02:17.919 --> 00:02:21.599 segment they produced in nineteen eighty nine barely even scratch 41 00:02:21.680 --> 00:02:24.360 the surface of how crazy this case was. And of 42 00:02:24.400 --> 00:02:26.159 course there's no way I'll be able to share all 43 00:02:26.159 --> 00:02:29.879 the information from his articles on this particular series of episodes, 44 00:02:29.919 --> 00:02:32.479 So I'd encourage if you want to learn more afterwards, 45 00:02:32.520 --> 00:02:35.400 to seek out Larry Griffin's like eighty nine part series 46 00:02:35.439 --> 00:02:37.439 of articles about the murder of Ronda Hinson. 47 00:02:37.960 --> 00:02:40.840 I love when a journalist really sinks their teeth into 48 00:02:40.879 --> 00:02:44.719 a case and they not only provide the necessary nuance, 49 00:02:44.840 --> 00:02:49.000 but more contextual clues about who this person was, whatever 50 00:02:49.120 --> 00:02:53.439 potential entanglements they had, their relationships, what their job was like, 51 00:02:53.560 --> 00:02:57.000 what they liked, what they disliked. I love getting that 52 00:02:57.080 --> 00:03:02.199 really holistic viewpoint of who a victim was, so we 53 00:03:02.240 --> 00:03:05.000 can really truly understand who they were in their life 54 00:03:05.159 --> 00:03:07.879 and how this certain thing happened to them. 55 00:03:08.240 --> 00:03:08.879 And I think so. 56 00:03:08.919 --> 00:03:11.919 Often when we look back at you know, probably you 57 00:03:11.919 --> 00:03:14.039 look at your earlier episodes when there just wasn't the 58 00:03:14.080 --> 00:03:16.520 material for some of these cases, and you're looking at 59 00:03:16.599 --> 00:03:19.439 unsolved mysteries, you just you miss out in a lot 60 00:03:19.479 --> 00:03:20.000 of nuance. 61 00:03:20.639 --> 00:03:23.479 It's true, like it becomes pretty obvious as we as 62 00:03:23.520 --> 00:03:25.840 we're going to talk about this that Ronda's personal life 63 00:03:25.879 --> 00:03:28.080 played a big role in what happened to her, and 64 00:03:28.120 --> 00:03:30.520 that now that we've got the full context, it's now 65 00:03:30.639 --> 00:03:33.240 seems we have a very solid theory about what might 66 00:03:33.240 --> 00:03:37.000 have happened. So the case takes place in nineteen eighty 67 00:03:37.000 --> 00:03:40.680 one in Burke County, North Carolina. Rondi Hinson was nineteen 68 00:03:40.759 --> 00:03:42.599 years old at the time and was living in the 69 00:03:42.599 --> 00:03:46.599 small town of Valdis with her parents, Judy and Bobby Hinson, 70 00:03:46.800 --> 00:03:49.759 and she also had a younger brother named Robbie. And 71 00:03:49.919 --> 00:03:52.439 after graduating from high school, Ronda did not seem to 72 00:03:52.439 --> 00:03:54.960 have much interest in attending college, so she got a 73 00:03:55.039 --> 00:03:58.400 job working in a clerical position at the Hickory Steel Company, 74 00:03:58.800 --> 00:04:01.800 which was located in the town of Hickory, about fifteen 75 00:04:01.800 --> 00:04:05.159 miles from her home. And on the evening of December 76 00:04:05.159 --> 00:04:08.680 the twenty second, Ronda decided to attend a workplace Christmas 77 00:04:08.680 --> 00:04:12.240 party which was being held at the Hickory American Legion Hut. 78 00:04:12.599 --> 00:04:14.479 And as far as our parents knew, she was probably 79 00:04:14.520 --> 00:04:16.720 going to be spending the night with a friend because 80 00:04:16.759 --> 00:04:19.399 she had a shift at the company the following morning 81 00:04:19.399 --> 00:04:22.120 and wanted to save herself the drive and if you 82 00:04:22.160 --> 00:04:25.600 watch the Unsolved Mystery segment, Judy Hinson talks about how 83 00:04:25.680 --> 00:04:28.439 at one am she was suddenly awoken from her sleep, 84 00:04:28.480 --> 00:04:32.600 having what she described as a eerie premonition, and she 85 00:04:32.720 --> 00:04:35.800 had this feeling that something bad had happened. So she 86 00:04:35.920 --> 00:04:38.079 got her husband, Bobby up and asked him to check 87 00:04:38.079 --> 00:04:40.839 the police band and he started hearing reports about a 88 00:04:40.879 --> 00:04:44.399 shooting that occurred, even though no details were broadcast, And 89 00:04:44.480 --> 00:04:47.199 sure enough, a couple hours later, a pair of detectives 90 00:04:47.240 --> 00:04:49.319 would show up at their home and inform them that 91 00:04:50.680 --> 00:04:53.800 Ronda had been shot. So this was a pretty eerie premonition. 92 00:04:55.079 --> 00:04:56.160 That is intense. 93 00:04:56.319 --> 00:04:59.399 I can't imagine what it would feel like to think that, 94 00:04:59.759 --> 00:05:01.839 or to I feel in your bones that something like 95 00:05:01.839 --> 00:05:04.800 that is going to happen, and then your logical mind 96 00:05:04.879 --> 00:05:07.319 is telling you this isn't going to happen, like you're 97 00:05:07.319 --> 00:05:10.560 not right, you're not correct. But I think that whether 98 00:05:10.600 --> 00:05:16.240 it's mother's intuition, or whether it's some kind of otherworldly 99 00:05:16.319 --> 00:05:19.439 thing that we have yet to explain, or it's quantum 100 00:05:19.600 --> 00:05:23.319 entanglement where you know we are connected to those who 101 00:05:23.360 --> 00:05:26.519 are close to us when it's from a DNA type 102 00:05:26.519 --> 00:05:29.040 of a bond, or you could say that everybody is 103 00:05:29.079 --> 00:05:31.720 connected if we are going to ascribe to the Big Bang. 104 00:05:31.959 --> 00:05:33.920 So there's lots of different ways to look at why 105 00:05:33.959 --> 00:05:37.040 somebody gets a premonition in how it could actually come true, 106 00:05:37.720 --> 00:05:40.759 or any other type of psychic phenomenon. But that is 107 00:05:41.079 --> 00:05:43.959 pretty mind blowing for me when that happens in a case. 108 00:05:44.759 --> 00:05:47.079 Yeah, and you can understand why this would be a 109 00:05:47.120 --> 00:05:49.560 case that Unsolved Mysteries would want to feature, because they 110 00:05:49.600 --> 00:05:51.920 not only feature true crime, but they also looked at 111 00:05:51.920 --> 00:05:54.959 the paranormal. And this wasn't the only case where someone 112 00:05:55.000 --> 00:05:56.759 said that I had a weird feeling or I had 113 00:05:56.759 --> 00:05:59.279 a weird premonition that someone I loved was going to 114 00:05:59.279 --> 00:06:02.279 be harmed, and then sure enough it actually came true. 115 00:06:02.519 --> 00:06:04.839 But here it was particularly shocking because this was a 116 00:06:04.879 --> 00:06:07.439 small town in North Carolina, which was not known for 117 00:06:07.560 --> 00:06:09.920 violent crime. So one of the odds that you would 118 00:06:09.959 --> 00:06:11.839 just be waking up with this bad feeling in the 119 00:06:11.839 --> 00:06:14.079 middle of the night about your daughter and then a 120 00:06:14.079 --> 00:06:17.959 couple hours later discovered that she had been murdered. So 121 00:06:18.399 --> 00:06:21.240 it turned out that Ronda had not decided to spend 122 00:06:21.240 --> 00:06:23.399 the night at her friend's house. She was planning to 123 00:06:23.480 --> 00:06:26.959 drive home, and her car had been discovered in a 124 00:06:27.120 --> 00:06:30.040 ditch on Mineral Springs Mountain Road at about one point 125 00:06:30.040 --> 00:06:32.839 fifteen am, and it was only about a half mile 126 00:06:32.879 --> 00:06:36.519 away from her parents' house, the driver's side door was opened, 127 00:06:36.560 --> 00:06:39.240 the engine was still running, but Ronda was lying dead 128 00:06:39.279 --> 00:06:41.680 on the ground a few feet away from the vehicle. 129 00:06:42.360 --> 00:06:44.240 And it turned out that she had been killed by 130 00:06:44.279 --> 00:06:46.759 a single gunshot wound, which had been fired from a 131 00:06:46.839 --> 00:06:49.920 high powered rifle. And incredibly, it turned out that the 132 00:06:49.959 --> 00:06:53.480 bullet had traveled through the car's trunk, through the back 133 00:06:53.519 --> 00:06:56.680 seat and the driver's seat before it pierced Ronda straight 134 00:06:56.680 --> 00:07:00.399 through the heart and her lung, killing her instantly. Because 135 00:07:00.399 --> 00:07:02.079 she was found at the side of the road with 136 00:07:02.160 --> 00:07:05.319 her arms at her side, they figured, no, there's no 137 00:07:05.360 --> 00:07:07.399 way she could have crawled out on her own because 138 00:07:07.399 --> 00:07:10.000 she would have been killed instantly. So they figured that 139 00:07:10.040 --> 00:07:12.399 someone had to have gone over to her car after 140 00:07:12.439 --> 00:07:14.959 it crashed into the ditch and removed her body and 141 00:07:15.000 --> 00:07:17.040 placed it on the road. But it was just so 142 00:07:17.160 --> 00:07:19.439 freaky because it looked like a shot that likes some 143 00:07:19.759 --> 00:07:22.720 high powered assassin would have fired. Because one of the 144 00:07:22.759 --> 00:07:25.199 odds that would have traveled through all these obstacles and 145 00:07:25.240 --> 00:07:27.399 get Ronda like point blank in the heart. 146 00:07:28.399 --> 00:07:30.759 I think it comes down to that question, is it 147 00:07:30.800 --> 00:07:34.720 because somebody has this incredible level of skill, or is 148 00:07:34.759 --> 00:07:38.040 it just one of those low probability shots that just 149 00:07:38.240 --> 00:07:39.319 happened in this case. 150 00:07:40.040 --> 00:07:42.079 Yeah, and that's the big mystery here about whether this 151 00:07:42.199 --> 00:07:45.560 was premeditated murder or a freak accident, because obviously a 152 00:07:45.639 --> 00:07:48.120 nineteen year old girl is not going to be someone 153 00:07:48.160 --> 00:07:50.920 that you would picture being shot by a sniper from 154 00:07:50.959 --> 00:07:54.720 an elevated position and in a professional assassination. So it 155 00:07:54.839 --> 00:07:56.600 just seemed like it might have been dumb luck, that 156 00:07:56.680 --> 00:07:59.079 maybe someone was just playing to fire a shot at 157 00:07:59.160 --> 00:08:01.360 or a scare or something like that, and just by 158 00:08:01.399 --> 00:08:04.560 a freak accident, it traveled through the trunk, the back seat, 159 00:08:04.600 --> 00:08:06.720 the driver's seat, and then got her right in the heart. 160 00:08:07.800 --> 00:08:10.720 Yeah, that's awful. I mean, she didn't have any connections 161 00:08:10.759 --> 00:08:13.240 to anyone who was in the military or who had 162 00:08:13.279 --> 00:08:16.600 any great deal of skill with a rifle. I mean, 163 00:08:16.959 --> 00:08:18.720 this is South Carolina. 164 00:08:18.240 --> 00:08:20.360 Correct, North Carolina, North. 165 00:08:20.160 --> 00:08:21.720 Carolina, one of the Carolinas. 166 00:08:22.160 --> 00:08:26.600 Okay, so people there, I don't know how much of 167 00:08:26.600 --> 00:08:29.000 a gun culture there is, but I feel like there 168 00:08:29.079 --> 00:08:31.759 is a gun culture. Would I be correct in saying that. 169 00:08:32.080 --> 00:08:34.159 Yes, Because they felt that the murder weapon was a 170 00:08:34.200 --> 00:08:37.799 hunting rifle, and hunting was very popular in that particular area, 171 00:08:38.039 --> 00:08:40.039 so it did not seem out of the ordinary that 172 00:08:40.120 --> 00:08:42.159 she would know one or more people who would have 173 00:08:42.159 --> 00:08:44.799 owned a hunting rifles. So at the time, it didn't 174 00:08:44.799 --> 00:08:47.360 really stick out that there was anyone that seemed like 175 00:08:47.399 --> 00:08:49.559 a likely candidate to have fired a shot like that 176 00:08:49.720 --> 00:08:54.320 at her. So when you looked at the route from 177 00:08:54.360 --> 00:08:56.960 a Hickory to Bald's, what she would need to do 178 00:08:57.080 --> 00:08:59.759 is travel west on Interstate forty and then use the 179 00:09:00.000 --> 00:09:03.080 Exit one twelve off ramp to drive onto Mineral Springs 180 00:09:03.080 --> 00:09:06.080 Mountain Road where she was found. And the off ramp 181 00:09:06.159 --> 00:09:08.440 was located next to a bridge which ran over the 182 00:09:08.519 --> 00:09:11.399 road and Ronda's car was only two hundred yards away 183 00:09:11.440 --> 00:09:14.559 from it. And an eyewitness would come forward and say 184 00:09:14.600 --> 00:09:18.000 that sometime between twelve fifteen and twelve thirty am, about 185 00:09:18.039 --> 00:09:21.279 forty five minutes before Ronda was discovered, they were driving 186 00:09:21.360 --> 00:09:24.679 under the Interstate bridge and noticed a blue Chevrolet containing 187 00:09:24.720 --> 00:09:28.159 two white males park there. About twenty five to forty 188 00:09:28.159 --> 00:09:31.120 minutes later, another motorists claimed that they were driving on 189 00:09:31.200 --> 00:09:33.960 Mineral Springs Mountain Road. It was a truck driver named 190 00:09:33.960 --> 00:09:37.399 Reggie Smart and noticed what appeared to be a Chevrolet 191 00:09:37.480 --> 00:09:40.639 vehicle speeding away from the scene, and it appeared to 192 00:09:40.639 --> 00:09:43.519 be blue or gray, and he described it as having 193 00:09:43.600 --> 00:09:46.159 a bumper that looked like it was messed up and 194 00:09:46.240 --> 00:09:49.759 had damage to it. And then almost immediately thereafter, Smart 195 00:09:49.799 --> 00:09:52.519 said that he drove past Ronda's Datson while it was 196 00:09:52.559 --> 00:09:55.639 in the ditch and noticed an unidentified man standing by 197 00:09:55.639 --> 00:09:58.120 the driver side door and a woman who appeared to 198 00:09:58.159 --> 00:10:00.639 be slumped over the steering wheel in the front seat. 199 00:10:01.240 --> 00:10:04.320 And then shortly thereafter he drove back, he passed by 200 00:10:04.399 --> 00:10:07.960 what appeared to be a dark transam, which likely belonged 201 00:10:07.960 --> 00:10:10.840 to the man standing next to Ronda's vehicle, And at 202 00:10:10.840 --> 00:10:12.879 the time Smart just thought this was a couple who 203 00:10:12.960 --> 00:10:15.240 had been drunk or something like that, so he didn't 204 00:10:15.240 --> 00:10:17.720 think it was anything serious. But then when he found 205 00:10:17.720 --> 00:10:20.200 out that Ronda had been killed at that location, he 206 00:10:20.720 --> 00:10:24.559 instantly contacted the police and they placed him under hypnosis 207 00:10:24.559 --> 00:10:26.799 to see if he could remember any more details. But 208 00:10:26.879 --> 00:10:28.799 even though he was certain he had seen a man 209 00:10:28.960 --> 00:10:31.120 pulling Ronda out of the front seat, he did not 210 00:10:31.159 --> 00:10:33.399 get a good look at his face to provide a description, 211 00:10:34.000 --> 00:10:36.519 but it seemed obvious that the person who did this 212 00:10:36.679 --> 00:10:39.480 was probably the person who shot her, because otherwise, why 213 00:10:39.519 --> 00:10:41.279 wouldn't they have contacted the police. 214 00:10:42.799 --> 00:10:46.159 Yeah, that I can't really think of any other explanation 215 00:10:46.360 --> 00:10:48.879 for why somebody would pull her body from the vehicle 216 00:10:49.279 --> 00:10:51.720 except for to see if she was indeed alive, to 217 00:10:51.720 --> 00:10:54.919 see if they could render aid. And imagine if you had, 218 00:10:54.960 --> 00:10:58.360 by accident shot her and then you go to the 219 00:10:58.440 --> 00:11:02.639 vehicle and you realized she's dead, like there's absolutely nothing 220 00:11:02.679 --> 00:11:05.519 that you can do to help her, and maybe somebody 221 00:11:05.559 --> 00:11:08.480 just went into self preservation mode, going, no, one's going 222 00:11:08.519 --> 00:11:11.879 to understand why I'm randomly shooting at vehicles, trying to 223 00:11:11.919 --> 00:11:14.360 scare people, just trying to have a I don't know, 224 00:11:14.440 --> 00:11:16.679 quote unquote good time. I don't know if that's what 225 00:11:16.840 --> 00:11:20.559 this person or people were doing, but I could see 226 00:11:20.559 --> 00:11:23.919 that law enforcement would end up charging them with men's 227 00:11:23.960 --> 00:11:27.320 slaughter potentially. So if you're looking at jail time, I 228 00:11:27.320 --> 00:11:29.480 could see pulling the person's body from the vehicle and 229 00:11:29.519 --> 00:11:32.279 going I can't do anything for them, and then panicking 230 00:11:32.360 --> 00:11:36.039 and leaving, Or if it was somebody who had intentionally 231 00:11:36.080 --> 00:11:38.679 done it, maybe you're going to see if this person 232 00:11:38.759 --> 00:11:40.799 is alive. But I think that you could see that 233 00:11:40.879 --> 00:11:43.279 without having to pull them from the vehicle, So that 234 00:11:43.320 --> 00:11:45.159 makes me lean towards that it was an accident. 235 00:11:45.840 --> 00:11:49.000 Yeah, And that's why opinions were sharply divided for many years, 236 00:11:49.039 --> 00:11:51.840 because if it was a premeditated murder, it's a huge 237 00:11:51.879 --> 00:11:54.360 risk to actually go up next to the vehicle and 238 00:11:54.399 --> 00:11:57.919 handle her body. Because as we saw, Reggie Smart passed 239 00:11:58.000 --> 00:12:00.480 by and saw him and this person and was just 240 00:12:00.600 --> 00:12:02.960 very lucky that he didn't get a good enough look 241 00:12:03.000 --> 00:12:05.519 to provide a description. And I think that a person 242 00:12:05.559 --> 00:12:08.279 would only do that if they were surprised that Ronda 243 00:12:08.399 --> 00:12:10.759 was killed, that they fired off a shot but wasn't 244 00:12:10.799 --> 00:12:13.159 intending to murder her, and then just had to go 245 00:12:13.200 --> 00:12:15.279 over and check. And once they realize, oh my god, 246 00:12:15.399 --> 00:12:17.600 she was killed, instantly I have to high tail it 247 00:12:17.639 --> 00:12:20.679 out of there. And the whole description of the two 248 00:12:20.879 --> 00:12:24.240 men seen in the car, it's interesting how Reggie Smart 249 00:12:24.320 --> 00:12:27.840 saw the car matching that description, the white or sorry 250 00:12:27.840 --> 00:12:31.399 the gray or blue Chevrolet speeding off while this second 251 00:12:31.440 --> 00:12:35.440 man was standing next to Ronda's body. So they wondered 252 00:12:35.759 --> 00:12:38.000 maybe they were sitting in the car together and one 253 00:12:38.039 --> 00:12:40.279 of the guys decided to high tail it out of there, 254 00:12:40.360 --> 00:12:42.639 while the other person decided to stay at the scene 255 00:12:42.960 --> 00:12:44.559 and check if Ronda was still alive. 256 00:12:45.720 --> 00:12:49.559 That's possible, and I could see a world where if 257 00:12:49.600 --> 00:12:52.919 it was their objective to end her life, that you 258 00:12:52.960 --> 00:12:54.960 would want to go and verify that you. 259 00:12:54.879 --> 00:12:55.919 Did indeed do that. 260 00:12:56.679 --> 00:13:00.000 So I cannot see pulling her body out of the vehicle, 261 00:13:00.159 --> 00:13:02.080 because you could check a pulse. You can see if 262 00:13:02.080 --> 00:13:05.960 somebody is deceased by just checking a pulse, by seeing 263 00:13:06.159 --> 00:13:09.480 are they breathing, checking for breath, without hauling them out 264 00:13:09.519 --> 00:13:12.480 of the vehicle. So that step is like the one 265 00:13:12.519 --> 00:13:15.200 step that I'm like, oh, I don't know, But if 266 00:13:15.240 --> 00:13:18.159 you were trying to kill her, then I could see 267 00:13:18.240 --> 00:13:21.000 wanting to verify that you did indeed finish the job. 268 00:13:21.879 --> 00:13:24.399 Yeah, and that might be what happened that maybe just 269 00:13:24.960 --> 00:13:27.320 if it was a premanitated murder one of the people, 270 00:13:27.759 --> 00:13:30.559 maybe because they had their own vehicle, this dark trans am, 271 00:13:30.919 --> 00:13:33.399 they just wanted to double check while their accomplice just 272 00:13:33.399 --> 00:13:34.639 sped away from the scene. 273 00:13:35.080 --> 00:13:37.600 Can you imagine though, if it was indeed, if that 274 00:13:37.720 --> 00:13:40.720 is indeed what happened, You're there checking to verify if 275 00:13:40.759 --> 00:13:44.519 you were successful at killing somebody, or you accidentally killed somebody, 276 00:13:44.519 --> 00:13:47.360 and your buddy's just like deuces seal you later and 277 00:13:47.399 --> 00:13:48.080 speeds off. 278 00:13:48.720 --> 00:13:50.679 Yeah, that would be pretty shocking, So I can only 279 00:13:50.759 --> 00:13:53.200 imagine that they had quite an argument or so if 280 00:13:53.200 --> 00:13:57.399 they were in on this together. So, of course, because 281 00:13:57.720 --> 00:14:00.720 Ronda had been killed, her parents started like looking back 282 00:14:00.759 --> 00:14:03.600 and trying to think if there were any strange behaviors 283 00:14:03.639 --> 00:14:05.639 that might have given some hints about who would have 284 00:14:05.639 --> 00:14:08.679 had a motive to kill her. And I know that 285 00:14:08.720 --> 00:14:11.320 to Ronda always used to drive everywhere on her own, 286 00:14:11.360 --> 00:14:13.759 but in the weeks and months prior to her death, 287 00:14:13.840 --> 00:14:17.039 she started telling her father to accompany her whenever she 288 00:14:17.159 --> 00:14:20.399 took trips into town, and during one of these trips, 289 00:14:20.519 --> 00:14:23.320 Ronda suddenly told Bobby that she had something bad to 290 00:14:23.320 --> 00:14:26.600 tell him, which he probably wouldn't like, and Bobby said 291 00:14:27.000 --> 00:14:29.120 urged her to come clean, saying, whatever it is, just 292 00:14:29.159 --> 00:14:31.519 tell me, but Ronda said she would think about it 293 00:14:31.600 --> 00:14:34.279 and never did tell him what was wrong. And a 294 00:14:34.320 --> 00:14:37.840 short time later, Ronda had a conversation with her mother, Judy, 295 00:14:38.039 --> 00:14:40.519 and she randomly decided to ask if it was ever 296 00:14:40.639 --> 00:14:44.080 okay to date a married man, and Judy told her 297 00:14:44.080 --> 00:14:46.000 that it was not okay because it would only lead 298 00:14:46.000 --> 00:14:49.639 to people getting hurt. But Ronda pretty much ended the conversation, 299 00:14:49.799 --> 00:14:53.240 never provided any context about why she asked this, and 300 00:14:53.279 --> 00:14:55.600 they never found any information that she was having an 301 00:14:55.600 --> 00:14:58.240 affair with a married man. But of course people started 302 00:14:58.240 --> 00:15:01.279 to wonder because of this, we question, in this weird 303 00:15:01.279 --> 00:15:04.519 conversation with her father, was there something bothering her and 304 00:15:04.679 --> 00:15:06.399 was there someone out there who might have had a 305 00:15:06.440 --> 00:15:07.200 motive to Harmer. 306 00:15:08.720 --> 00:15:12.039 I would say, based on her actions, it's pretty easy 307 00:15:12.080 --> 00:15:14.080 to deduce that she felt like she was in some 308 00:15:14.200 --> 00:15:16.960 kind of danger, because I can remember being a nineteen 309 00:15:17.039 --> 00:15:17.639 year old girl. 310 00:15:18.039 --> 00:15:19.399 You love your independence. 311 00:15:19.720 --> 00:15:21.879 The last thing that you're going to do, unless you 312 00:15:21.919 --> 00:15:25.799 feel unsafe, is to ask your dad to accompany you everywhere. 313 00:15:25.840 --> 00:15:29.320 I would say that is extremely atypical, especially since it 314 00:15:29.360 --> 00:15:31.840 was a new thing that she was doing. And then 315 00:15:31.879 --> 00:15:35.159 to ask that very specific question about a married man, 316 00:15:35.879 --> 00:15:38.919 I would say that there's a very high probability that 317 00:15:39.120 --> 00:15:41.799 she was sleeping or it had a relationship with a 318 00:15:41.840 --> 00:15:45.240 married man, because otherwise, why would you ask that question 319 00:15:45.320 --> 00:15:47.120 unless you were thinking about doing it. 320 00:15:47.840 --> 00:15:50.159 Yeah, And that's what they wondered, is that maybe she 321 00:15:50.240 --> 00:15:52.559 hadn't actually gone through with it, but she was thinking 322 00:15:52.559 --> 00:15:54.960 about it. Maybe she had a crush with another married 323 00:15:55.000 --> 00:15:57.399 man she knew. But of course you feel so bad 324 00:15:57.440 --> 00:16:00.600 for Judy and Bobby in these situations because after she's killed, 325 00:16:00.600 --> 00:16:03.039 they're just kicking themselves saying that I really should have 326 00:16:03.039 --> 00:16:05.519 pushed her harder about this, maybe we could have prevented 327 00:16:05.519 --> 00:16:07.799 her death. But at the time they just wanted to 328 00:16:07.799 --> 00:16:10.200 give ron to some space and pretty much said, well, well, 329 00:16:10.360 --> 00:16:13.200 we'll let this go, and if ron wants to tell 330 00:16:13.279 --> 00:16:15.840 us something, she will, and they never dreamed that she 331 00:16:15.879 --> 00:16:17.639 would wind up dead a short time later. 332 00:16:18.600 --> 00:16:21.080 Yeah, you've got to feel bad for the parents, especially 333 00:16:21.159 --> 00:16:24.360 your father, because I can't imagine you're told I've got 334 00:16:24.399 --> 00:16:27.320 something big to tell you, but she doesn't share with him. 335 00:16:27.799 --> 00:16:30.919 That is going to literally haunt him for the rest 336 00:16:30.919 --> 00:16:33.519 of his days, because every day you're going to kick 337 00:16:33.559 --> 00:16:34.200 yourself and go. 338 00:16:34.519 --> 00:16:37.320 Why didn't I push harder? Why didn't I ask her? 339 00:16:37.759 --> 00:16:40.679 And the answer is probably she wasn't ready to share 340 00:16:40.720 --> 00:16:43.600 that information, or she would have shared it with him already. 341 00:16:44.120 --> 00:16:47.240 And as sad as it is, you can't change what 342 00:16:47.679 --> 00:16:51.240 wasn't shared in the past. And I just I feel 343 00:16:51.279 --> 00:16:54.080 so deeply for them because to have your nineteen year 344 00:16:54.120 --> 00:16:57.159 old daughter taken away from you is difficult enough, but 345 00:16:57.240 --> 00:17:00.759 when you couple it with the mysterious circumstances, asking about 346 00:17:00.759 --> 00:17:04.000 the married man having her father accompany her saying there's 347 00:17:04.000 --> 00:17:06.240 something big that she needs to tell him, and then 348 00:17:06.279 --> 00:17:07.519 she's just she's gone. 349 00:17:07.880 --> 00:17:08.599 It's so sad. 350 00:17:09.079 --> 00:17:11.200 It is. And this is not the only cold case 351 00:17:11.200 --> 00:17:14.480 I've seen where parents said that their child was exhibiting 352 00:17:14.519 --> 00:17:17.680 strange behavior and making cryptic remarks prior to their death, 353 00:17:17.720 --> 00:17:20.480 and of course they wish they had done things differently 354 00:17:20.519 --> 00:17:22.319 and pressed them harder about it to find out what 355 00:17:22.400 --> 00:17:26.000 was wrong. But of course, hindsight is twenty twenty. And 356 00:17:26.079 --> 00:17:28.440 there's another strange event that happened because in the weeks 357 00:17:28.519 --> 00:17:31.519 leading up to her death, Ronda started growing paranoid and 358 00:17:31.559 --> 00:17:34.400 suffering from insomnia, and she would often get up in 359 00:17:34.440 --> 00:17:37.480 the middle of the night to compulsively take showers. And 360 00:17:37.519 --> 00:17:39.839 when her mother asked why she kept doing this off 361 00:17:39.880 --> 00:17:42.200 and Ronda simply said that it was because she quote 362 00:17:42.240 --> 00:17:46.440 unquote fell dirty. And of course, after her murder, police 363 00:17:46.440 --> 00:17:49.000 officers were telling her that this is behavior that is 364 00:17:49.039 --> 00:17:52.720 frequent in sexual assault survivors, where sometimes they will just 365 00:17:52.839 --> 00:17:56.079 feel a compulsive need to take showers because of what 366 00:17:56.119 --> 00:17:58.960 they'd experienced, so of course now they were wondering if 367 00:17:59.000 --> 00:18:00.920 something like that might have had in to Ronda, and 368 00:18:01.000 --> 00:18:02.400 she just never told them about it. 369 00:18:03.920 --> 00:18:07.480 That hit me like a punch in the gut, like personally, 370 00:18:07.599 --> 00:18:11.039 because I myself, I'm a survivor of sexual assault, and 371 00:18:11.160 --> 00:18:14.519 so I know that feeling that you said, and on 372 00:18:14.640 --> 00:18:15.279 like a. 373 00:18:15.200 --> 00:18:17.640 Cellular level, that visceral feeling of. 374 00:18:17.720 --> 00:18:21.359 Feeling dirty, needing to feel clean, and needing to wash 375 00:18:21.400 --> 00:18:22.880 one's self to do so. 376 00:18:22.880 --> 00:18:26.119 So I completely can identify with that. 377 00:18:26.279 --> 00:18:30.000 And I can't see any other scenario where somebody would 378 00:18:30.039 --> 00:18:34.160 say I feel dirty unless they made choices that they 379 00:18:34.200 --> 00:18:38.839 weren't happy with. But to me, it speaks to very 380 00:18:38.960 --> 00:18:43.160 high probabilities that there was likely some type of sexual assault. 381 00:18:43.680 --> 00:18:47.200 Maybe somebody was threatening her or making her feel unsafe 382 00:18:47.359 --> 00:18:48.920 and in doing. 383 00:18:48.680 --> 00:18:50.400 So, there was a sexual assault. 384 00:18:50.440 --> 00:18:54.680 Because oftentimes it's not necessarily about the sex, it's about 385 00:18:54.720 --> 00:18:57.759 the power. So if somebody's trying to intimidate her, it 386 00:18:57.880 --> 00:19:00.720 seems like that could be a tool I wish to do. 387 00:19:00.839 --> 00:19:03.759 So, Yeah, we're gonna be talking more about this later. 388 00:19:03.880 --> 00:19:07.839 How it's never been conclusively proven if Ronda was sexually assaulted, 389 00:19:07.880 --> 00:19:09.799 but we will find out that there was someone in 390 00:19:09.839 --> 00:19:12.160 her personal life who sounds like they could have been 391 00:19:12.200 --> 00:19:15.160 capable of doing that. But of course, sadly, back in 392 00:19:15.240 --> 00:19:17.640 nineteen eighty one, there was just not as much understanding 393 00:19:17.680 --> 00:19:20.279 about sexual assaults, so I don't think it even occurred 394 00:19:20.319 --> 00:19:23.240 to Ronda's parents until after they were told by police 395 00:19:23.319 --> 00:19:26.279 that this was common behavior, And of course they wound 396 00:19:26.319 --> 00:19:28.720 up like getting angry with themselves again saying that they 397 00:19:28.759 --> 00:19:31.319 should have pressed Ronda harder about it, but they just 398 00:19:31.359 --> 00:19:34.039 never imagined that she would wind up dead in a 399 00:19:34.119 --> 00:19:37.400 very short time. So, like I mentioned earlier, the case 400 00:19:37.480 --> 00:19:40.039 was featured on an episode of Unsolved Mysteries which aired 401 00:19:40.039 --> 00:19:43.119