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He's apply for broadband reliability see 10 00:00:38.320 --> 00:00:40.039 Virgin Media dot I forward slash proof. 11 00:00:40.439 --> 00:00:42.240 So you want to go up this road here and 12 00:00:42.320 --> 00:00:44.079 get to a roundabit. You take a left and then 13 00:00:44.119 --> 00:00:45.960 you go past the Murphy's house, you know, to Murphy's 14 00:00:46.000 --> 00:00:46.960 their young lad, Sean. 15 00:00:47.039 --> 00:00:49.640 I think he's over in London. Now, oh yeah. 16 00:00:49.840 --> 00:00:56.039 FBD doesn't stand for frustratingly bad directions. FBD stands for support. 17 00:00:56.439 --> 00:00:59.119 We support van drivers in Ireland with up to seventy 18 00:00:59.159 --> 00:01:01.000 five percent of new van policies. 19 00:01:01.359 --> 00:01:04.680 FBD insurance support. It's what we do. Can't miss it. 20 00:01:04.760 --> 00:01:06.959 Once your past there a little terrier was starting to 21 00:01:07.000 --> 00:01:09.239 chase yet and once he gives the you should be 22 00:01:09.280 --> 00:01:11.920 there seventy five percent off based on five years no 23 00:01:11.959 --> 00:01:15.480 claims discount. Terms and conditions apply. Underwritten by FBD Insurance Plc. 24 00:01:15.680 --> 00:01:18.680 FBD Insurance Group Limited, trading as FBD Insurance, is regulated 25 00:01:18.719 --> 00:01:19.760 by the Central Bank of Ireland. 26 00:01:20.519 --> 00:01:26.319 Oh it's your uncle's army buddy who makes superb banana bread, 27 00:01:26.359 --> 00:01:29.159 Ali Ward. I am back with another episode of Ologies 28 00:01:29.519 --> 00:01:33.640 Smologies rather what Assmologies. If you're listening to this and 29 00:01:33.680 --> 00:01:35.799 you're like, is this a regular episode of Ologies, it's not. 30 00:01:36.400 --> 00:01:40.120 We took full episodes of our regular Ologies podcast, Not 31 00:01:40.280 --> 00:01:42.719 Safe for Kids, and we whittled them down and we 32 00:01:42.799 --> 00:01:45.840 shaped them up to make these pocket sized, classroom friendly 33 00:01:46.079 --> 00:01:48.640 edits of some of your favorite past episodes. So if 34 00:01:48.640 --> 00:01:51.799 you haven't listened to the original full length episode of 35 00:01:52.079 --> 00:01:56.560 Hagfishology and you don't mind the occasional salacious detail and 36 00:01:56.719 --> 00:01:59.319 a lot of talk about muchus and swear words, go 37 00:01:59.359 --> 00:02:01.840 back listen to that one adults. That is in the 38 00:02:01.879 --> 00:02:03.760 link in the show notes. But if you have only 39 00:02:03.760 --> 00:02:05.480 about twenty or so minutes and you need a G 40 00:02:05.640 --> 00:02:09.039 rated version that's suitable for all ages, You're in the 41 00:02:09.080 --> 00:02:13.199 right place, stick around, okay. Hagfishology, I did not make 42 00:02:13.280 --> 00:02:15.960 that word out for this episode. I swear the term 43 00:02:16.000 --> 00:02:18.400 had been used before. In twenty thirteen, as part of 44 00:02:18.400 --> 00:02:21.759 a biology graduate student seminar, it was published. I found 45 00:02:21.759 --> 00:02:25.560 it and included a talk called Adventures in Hagfishology, Sulfate 46 00:02:25.599 --> 00:02:29.719 Transport and extra Branchial Mechanisms of ion regulation in Pacific 47 00:02:29.719 --> 00:02:32.919 Hagfish by Alex Clifford. So I did not make it up. 48 00:02:32.960 --> 00:02:37.120 The term hagfish itself, though, was first documented in sixteen eleven, 49 00:02:37.360 --> 00:02:39.360 and I wish it had a better story, but it 50 00:02:39.520 --> 00:02:42.479 just had to do with its face. Hagfish, plain and simple. 51 00:02:42.759 --> 00:02:45.520 So what is it though? What is a hagfish? Okay? 52 00:02:45.560 --> 00:02:50.520 So it's an eel shaped, jawless slime factory of a 53 00:02:50.560 --> 00:02:55.879 marine fish whose skin kind of fits like a loose sock. 54 00:02:56.400 --> 00:03:00.240 And hagfish have been classified as vertebrates that it here 55 00:03:00.280 --> 00:03:05.120 to have lost their spine what I know. Okay, but 56 00:03:05.199 --> 00:03:08.400 even that classification is not without a little controversy. But 57 00:03:08.439 --> 00:03:11.360 did I mention the slime? Oh, the slime? And you're 58 00:03:11.360 --> 00:03:14.919 probably wondering why I spent a whole episode on this 59 00:03:15.039 --> 00:03:18.560 grayish hot dog fish of the deep sea, and that 60 00:03:18.639 --> 00:03:21.919 is that's a fair question. I get it. Well, it's 61 00:03:21.919 --> 00:03:24.719 because I saw this news article in The Atlantic that 62 00:03:24.800 --> 00:03:28.199 profiled a traffic accident in twenty seventeen where a truck 63 00:03:28.599 --> 00:03:33.759 transporting seventy five hundred pounds of hagfish and their slime 64 00:03:34.039 --> 00:03:38.479 tipped over on an Oregon highway and blanketed both cars 65 00:03:38.560 --> 00:03:42.439 and the highway with this road slick that few people 66 00:03:42.479 --> 00:03:47.520 had ever experienced before. Hagfish slime ever since then has 67 00:03:47.560 --> 00:03:49.719 been front and center in my mind. I needed to 68 00:03:49.759 --> 00:03:51.879 know more, so I did a brief Google search for 69 00:03:51.919 --> 00:03:55.599 the world's foremost experts in hagfish and I met today's 70 00:03:55.599 --> 00:03:59.080 ologist So. He hails from Canada. He received his bachelor's 71 00:03:59.080 --> 00:04:02.400 and master's degrees in zoology from the University of Guelp 72 00:04:02.520 --> 00:04:05.520 in Ontario, where he was first introduced to hagfish by 73 00:04:05.800 --> 00:04:10.439 hagfish master doctor Douglas Fudge, and at the time of 74 00:04:10.479 --> 00:04:13.879 this interview he was a research associate at Chaplin University 75 00:04:13.960 --> 00:04:16.759 along with doctor Fudge, and in this episode, he helps 76 00:04:16.839 --> 00:04:21.959 us navigate what defines a craniate, why hagfish are deep 77 00:04:22.000 --> 00:04:27.319 sea specialists, they're barely functioning eyesight, but super sensitive snoots. 78 00:04:27.319 --> 00:04:31.199 How no one has seen a baby hagfish, they're infrequent 79 00:04:31.319 --> 00:04:35.839 dietary habits, and why hagfish intentionally tie themselves in knots, 80 00:04:35.879 --> 00:04:38.920 and of course all about the slime. So prepare U 81 00:04:38.959 --> 00:04:44.199 cranial cavities and notochords for a deep sea dwelling. Conversation 82 00:04:44.720 --> 00:05:10.759 with zoological enthusiast and professional hagfishologist Tim Wineguard. What is 83 00:05:11.160 --> 00:05:14.600 a hagfish for someone who's never seen or touched one? 84 00:05:15.079 --> 00:05:18.120 So I guess the best way to describe them is 85 00:05:18.279 --> 00:05:25.959 they're a benthic deep sea dweller. Right, So essentially all 86 00:05:26.079 --> 00:05:31.360 hagfish share that in common. They all live along the 87 00:05:31.399 --> 00:05:34.560 bottom substrate of the oceans, and the majority of them 88 00:05:34.600 --> 00:05:37.240 below one hundred meters in depth or about three hundred 89 00:05:37.240 --> 00:05:37.920 feet right. 90 00:05:38.360 --> 00:05:41.439 So side note this all just jumps between metric and 91 00:05:41.959 --> 00:05:44.480 us y are we still not metric measurements? 92 00:05:44.680 --> 00:05:51.079 So what they are is a jawless, primitive eel like creature. 93 00:05:51.399 --> 00:05:51.600 Right. 94 00:05:51.720 --> 00:05:54.240 I'm hesitant to call them a fish, even though it's 95 00:05:54.279 --> 00:05:59.120 in their name, because they aren't necessarily a traditional fish. 96 00:05:59.600 --> 00:05:59.800 Right. 97 00:05:59.800 --> 00:06:04.680 They lack scales, they lack jaws, they lack eyes, they 98 00:06:04.759 --> 00:06:08.439 lack what we would traditionally referred to as fins. So 99 00:06:08.879 --> 00:06:14.319 they're in many ways a very primitive version of a 100 00:06:14.439 --> 00:06:15.519 modern day fish. 101 00:06:15.680 --> 00:06:15.879 Right. 102 00:06:15.959 --> 00:06:19.399 They're thought to have diverged at around the same time 103 00:06:19.480 --> 00:06:23.959 that vertebrates popped up on the evolutionary spectrum. So these 104 00:06:23.959 --> 00:06:25.959 augers are old old. 105 00:06:26.519 --> 00:06:27.759 My god, you're so old. 106 00:06:27.920 --> 00:06:29.920 Yeah, how many millions of years do you think? 107 00:06:30.240 --> 00:06:32.920 So there is fossil evidence up to three hundred and 108 00:06:32.920 --> 00:06:36.079 fifty million years, but they're likely over five hundred million 109 00:06:36.160 --> 00:06:36.680 years old. 110 00:06:37.040 --> 00:06:37.560 Wow. 111 00:06:37.800 --> 00:06:43.720 Yeah, So among some of the first like really highly 112 00:06:44.000 --> 00:06:49.120 organized cephalized, which means essentially like head focused creatures. So 113 00:06:49.720 --> 00:06:52.839 hagfish for a long time were defined as crane its, 114 00:06:53.079 --> 00:06:56.240 which means that they have a cranium surrounding their brain. 115 00:06:57.000 --> 00:07:00.759 But they have no calcification of anything their body, so 116 00:07:00.800 --> 00:07:05.120 it's all cartilage, right, So they do have a note accord. 117 00:07:05.279 --> 00:07:08.839 They have many of these features that are very vertebrate 118 00:07:09.079 --> 00:07:15.240 in a way, but lacking calcification, lacking gills, lacking jaws, 119 00:07:15.319 --> 00:07:19.240 all these other features place them in a much more 120 00:07:19.600 --> 00:07:22.000 and I even hesitate to say primitive, but I guess 121 00:07:22.000 --> 00:07:27.079 they are primitive features, even though hagfish themselves are obviously 122 00:07:27.120 --> 00:07:29.879 as ancient as they are, they're also very modern, right 123 00:07:30.000 --> 00:07:33.439 like the hagfish we see today. We really don't know 124 00:07:34.279 --> 00:07:36.920 how much they relate to the hagfish of the past. 125 00:07:36.800 --> 00:07:39.560 Right all right, So we have an idea of what 126 00:07:39.639 --> 00:07:41.839 they are, but I have so many questions as to 127 00:07:41.959 --> 00:07:45.959 their life and how they're socialized, and so explain to 128 00:07:46.000 --> 00:07:49.519 me what the life of a hagfish is like. Where 129 00:07:49.560 --> 00:07:51.480 are they living, what are they eating, who are they 130 00:07:51.519 --> 00:07:53.680 hanging out with? What's going on down there? Oh? 131 00:07:53.800 --> 00:07:58.360 I think we all wish we knew. So what we 132 00:07:58.519 --> 00:08:03.800 do know is that they're very sensitive to temperature and light, right, 133 00:08:03.920 --> 00:08:08.800 so they're a deep sea specialist. They seek out cold water. 134 00:08:09.040 --> 00:08:12.920 There is maybe only one species that's found inside of 135 00:08:13.000 --> 00:08:15.600 one hundred meters of depth, so there is called the 136 00:08:15.680 --> 00:08:19.839 inshore hagfish, which is found in Japan. But other than that, 137 00:08:19.879 --> 00:08:24.519 they're all very deep sea. They feed on a variety 138 00:08:24.920 --> 00:08:29.480 of not only small tube worms and other invertebrates, but 139 00:08:29.639 --> 00:08:34.879 also scavenge large windfalls of whales and seals and sea 140 00:08:34.919 --> 00:08:37.960 lions and big fish that fall down into the ocean. 141 00:08:38.039 --> 00:08:38.320 Deep. 142 00:08:38.559 --> 00:08:39.080 That's deep. 143 00:08:39.480 --> 00:08:42.960 Wow, that is quite the diet. But apparently they also 144 00:08:43.000 --> 00:08:46.879 play a role in keeping the deep sea ecosystem flourishing. 145 00:08:47.519 --> 00:08:50.039 Thanks we know, or at least we think that they 146 00:08:50.039 --> 00:08:54.840 play an important role in that bottom composition turnover. Right, 147 00:08:54.879 --> 00:08:58.240 So when things do fall into the deep there's low oxygen, 148 00:08:59.080 --> 00:09:02.600 there are conditions that can lend themselves preserving something like 149 00:09:02.639 --> 00:09:03.799 a whale for years. 150 00:09:04.080 --> 00:09:04.360 Wow. 151 00:09:04.399 --> 00:09:10.519 Right, low temperatures, low oxygen. So maybe the bacterial decomposition 152 00:09:11.120 --> 00:09:15.159 is not as prevalent like there would be bacterial decomposition, 153 00:09:15.279 --> 00:09:18.200 But I think there's a place for hagfish and actually 154 00:09:18.279 --> 00:09:22.240 cleaning up the bottom in that way and then spreading 155 00:09:22.279 --> 00:09:25.720 the nutrients around. Right, So as they feed, they'll obviously 156 00:09:25.840 --> 00:09:27.879 leave go back to their burrows or go back to 157 00:09:27.960 --> 00:09:32.000 where they're living, and bring nutrients with them and essentially 158 00:09:32.159 --> 00:09:36.519 help spread nutrients in an otherwise very very desert like 159 00:09:36.679 --> 00:09:37.720 deep sea environment. 160 00:09:38.080 --> 00:09:41.519 Okay, so not just scavenging, but maybe even a nutrition 161 00:09:41.720 --> 00:09:45.200 regulator of the deep sea. Okay, But aside from eating 162 00:09:45.559 --> 00:09:49.320 scavenging keeping nutrients in check, what do hagfish do with 163 00:09:49.399 --> 00:09:52.000 their time? Do they have any hobbies? Do they knit 164 00:09:52.120 --> 00:09:55.399 tube sweaters for themselves? It seems so chilly down there. 165 00:09:55.600 --> 00:09:58.639 What's their day to day life like in terms of 166 00:09:59.279 --> 00:10:02.240 what we know about where they live. Some have a 167 00:10:02.279 --> 00:10:07.200 tendency to be in more muddy sandy bottoms. Those ones, 168 00:10:07.279 --> 00:10:11.200 those species are typical burrowers. They'll actually live in burrows 169 00:10:11.559 --> 00:10:14.600 in the mud and typically sit there with just their 170 00:10:14.639 --> 00:10:18.519 nostril sticking out catching, you know, looking for whiffs of 171 00:10:18.600 --> 00:10:23.679 whale or seals. But the other ones do spend time 172 00:10:23.759 --> 00:10:27.200 on rocky bottoms, and I think those are the species 173 00:10:27.240 --> 00:10:30.240 that tend to coil up a bit more because they're 174 00:10:30.279 --> 00:10:32.960 just spending a lot more time on the surface as 175 00:10:32.960 --> 00:10:34.600 opposed to within the substrate. 176 00:10:35.000 --> 00:10:39.759 And how are they making baby hagfish? Nobody knows. Yeah, 177 00:10:39.799 --> 00:10:46.840 so nobody has ever witnessed hagfish breeding. Wow, And nobody 178 00:10:46.919 --> 00:10:53.039 has ever had hagfish successfully breed in captivity, even unseen 179 00:10:53.360 --> 00:10:57.120 to produce fertile eggs. So we have hagfish laying eggs 180 00:10:57.200 --> 00:11:00.840 in captivity all the time, but they're presumably on fertilized 181 00:11:01.600 --> 00:11:02.960 because they never develop. 182 00:11:03.519 --> 00:11:07.320 No hagfish stork is doing a deep dive to deliver 183 00:11:07.480 --> 00:11:10.200 a slimy bundle of joy. So for now it just 184 00:11:10.440 --> 00:11:13.840 remains a mystery for us to ruminate on. By the way, 185 00:11:13.919 --> 00:11:17.039 ruminate means to chew on, which on that note back 186 00:11:17.039 --> 00:11:20.919 to their diets. How often do hagfish eat? Are they 187 00:11:21.000 --> 00:11:24.559 just swimming around the abyss in a constant search for snacks? 188 00:11:24.720 --> 00:11:27.279 Are there drive throughs down there? Swim throughs? 189 00:11:27.559 --> 00:11:30.919 I think their low metabolism, you know, it suits them 190 00:11:30.960 --> 00:11:34.679 well to possibly go a year or more without feeding. 191 00:11:35.360 --> 00:11:38.639 Even in captivity, we typically only feed them every three 192 00:11:38.679 --> 00:11:44.159 to six months. What yeah, yeah, they they eat a 193 00:11:44.200 --> 00:11:46.600 lot when they eat, but they don't eat frequently. 194 00:11:46.960 --> 00:11:47.200 Wow. 195 00:11:47.240 --> 00:11:49.399 What do you feed them in captivity? 196 00:11:50.240 --> 00:11:53.039 They get a bit of a mixture. There's shrimp and 197 00:11:53.159 --> 00:11:58.080 squid and beef. It's really interesting as well though, because 198 00:11:58.120 --> 00:12:01.679 they lack appendages and they don't have a jaw. The 199 00:12:01.759 --> 00:12:04.399 way if it is to actually, like, say, a big 200 00:12:04.480 --> 00:12:08.080 pot roast, they actually tie themselves into knots that they 201 00:12:08.080 --> 00:12:12.519 slide against the pot roast to actually tug on it. 202 00:12:12.679 --> 00:12:15.200 Oh my god. Yeah, so they tie the same knots 203 00:12:15.200 --> 00:12:18.240 to rid themselves of slime. But they have a very 204 00:12:18.320 --> 00:12:22.279 unique way of actually latching onto something without jaws, right, 205 00:12:22.360 --> 00:12:22.759 so they. 206 00:12:22.639 --> 00:12:25.960 Can pull at it exactly and get like some resistance. Okay, 207 00:12:26.000 --> 00:12:28.360 so we've learned that they don't have a proper job. 208 00:12:28.480 --> 00:12:30.639 But when they do eat in the wild at least 209 00:12:30.960 --> 00:12:33.960 they are down to yum it up on things like 210 00:12:34.559 --> 00:12:38.159 delicious ripe, decaying whales. You know how if you drop 211 00:12:38.240 --> 00:12:40.000 cheese on the floor, your dog rush is over to 212 00:12:40.039 --> 00:12:42.960 clean it up for you. Hagfish do that for the ocean. 213 00:12:43.360 --> 00:12:46.279 Only they bore a hole in something dead and they 214 00:12:46.320 --> 00:12:50.159 devour it from the inside out. Good for them, it's resourceful. Now, 215 00:12:50.200 --> 00:12:52.559 what are some of the other parts that make up 216 00:12:52.559 --> 00:12:56.039 these delightful creatures? And can you run me through some 217 00:12:56.200 --> 00:12:57.840 body parts of a hagfish? 218 00:12:58.240 --> 00:13:01.000 Yeah, so I guess if you're to have a hagfish 219 00:13:01.000 --> 00:13:04.480 out on the table, they do have a head, right, 220 00:13:04.600 --> 00:13:07.240 So they have barbles at the end of the head, 221 00:13:07.320 --> 00:13:13.799 which are essentially their chemical sensing devices. Right they have 222 00:13:13.919 --> 00:13:17.840 the catfish, Yeah, catfish have barbles as well, right, so yeah, 223 00:13:17.879 --> 00:13:21.600 they'd be packed with what we call chemosensory cells that 224 00:13:21.639 --> 00:13:25.759 would be picking up things like the sense of dead 225 00:13:25.879 --> 00:13:29.080 or decaying fish, right or a whale. So they start 226 00:13:29.080 --> 00:13:33.000 with those. They have a very large intake aperture for 227 00:13:33.080 --> 00:13:34.480 their gill system. 228 00:13:34.480 --> 00:13:40.080 So seawater gets snorgled through their face snoop, and then 229 00:13:40.120 --> 00:13:44.360 that water is expelled through these breathing holes on the side, 230 00:13:44.559 --> 00:13:48.080 so they're kind of like a slimy water flute. Anyway, 231 00:13:48.240 --> 00:13:49.799 they smell like champs. 232 00:13:50.320 --> 00:13:54.200 It also feeds into a sack right very close to 233 00:13:54.279 --> 00:13:58.879 their brain, so they have probably an incredible ability to 234 00:13:58.960 --> 00:14:03.200 detect very or very faint smells, which makes sense, right 235 00:14:03.279 --> 00:14:06.879 if they're potentially hundreds of meters from something that fell, 236 00:14:07.120 --> 00:14:11.320 or maybe even further right, So, they have very primitive eyes. 237 00:14:11.440 --> 00:14:13.639 If you look at a lot of the hagfish, they 238 00:14:13.720 --> 00:14:16.240 don't have the type of eyes that we would normally 239 00:14:16.320 --> 00:14:20.919 associate with the fish. Theirs actually don't even protrude through 240 00:14:20.919 --> 00:14:24.480 the skin. So there's a transparent layer of skin that 241 00:14:24.639 --> 00:14:29.600 covers a very rudimentary eye that was likely more developed 242 00:14:29.600 --> 00:14:33.120 at one time but was just not selected for and 243 00:14:33.440 --> 00:14:36.559 they essentially lost its full functionality. 244 00:14:36.279 --> 00:14:41.240 Rudimentary eyes, but super super sensitive snoops got it. So 245 00:14:41.480 --> 00:14:44.159 they definitely have adapted to their environments over the last 246 00:14:44.480 --> 00:14:46.879 three hundred million years or so, they've had some time 247 00:14:46.879 --> 00:14:48.159 to work it out amazingly. 248 00:14:48.440 --> 00:14:52.919 So essentially there are these carratinous teeth or the same 249 00:14:53.240 --> 00:14:55.600 you know, the same material that makes up our fingernails 250 00:14:55.679 --> 00:14:59.519 makes up their their rasp, which they use to actually 251 00:15:00.919 --> 00:15:05.320 essentially sand tissue off of a carcass or to slurp 252 00:15:05.440 --> 00:15:07.440 up a little worm that they're after. 253 00:15:07.919 --> 00:15:10.919 But all of this hag anatomy is just the potato 254 00:15:11.000 --> 00:15:15.200 skins that jalapeno poppers appetizer before we get to the 255 00:15:15.279 --> 00:15:19.159 main course, because now it's time for slime, a lot 256 00:15:19.159 --> 00:15:19.399 of it. 257 00:15:19.759 --> 00:15:21.720 And then as you move into the rest of the body, 258 00:15:21.919 --> 00:15:25.080 you'll notice along the ventral side that they have about 259 00:15:25.080 --> 00:15:28.480 one hundred to one hundred and fifty slime gland openings right, 260 00:15:28.600 --> 00:15:32.519 so they're literally covered head to tail with these glands 261 00:15:32.559 --> 00:15:36.360 that produce their defensive slime. So whether they're bit on 262 00:15:36.399 --> 00:15:38.600 the head or on the tail, they can in a 263 00:15:38.679 --> 00:15:42.000 fraction of a second, like less than one hundred milliseconds, 264 00:15:42.519 --> 00:15:46.919 produce copious quantities of this fiber reinforced slime. 265 00:15:47.240 --> 00:15:50.159 And is it hard for them to make more of it? 266 00:15:50.240 --> 00:15:53.639 If they slime someone and they're like, bybee Laida, do 267 00:15:53.679 --> 00:15:56.919 they have to go to sit and produce more? Is 268 00:15:57.279 --> 00:15:59.960 it energy expensive for them? 269 00:16:00.679 --> 00:16:04.240 Yeah? The fibers are made up of protein, which in 270 00:16:04.240 --> 00:16:08.600 general is quite expensive to make. But one of the 271 00:16:08.720 --> 00:16:11.679 unique things that the hayfish does by having so many 272 00:16:11.720 --> 00:16:15.799 slime glands is that it never deploys them all at once, right, 273 00:16:15.879 --> 00:16:18.960 so they do have some sight specificity. 274 00:16:19.120 --> 00:16:19.320 Right. 275 00:16:19.360 --> 00:16:21.399 If you bite it on the tail, it may only 276 00:16:21.480 --> 00:16:25.120 release exitate, is what we call the condensed slime. Essentially, 277 00:16:25.559 --> 00:16:28.840 it may only release a few glandsworth like two or 278 00:16:28.879 --> 00:16:31.679 three glands on either side of its body, which is 279 00:16:31.799 --> 00:16:36.679 enough to produce a gallon of form slime. So like 280 00:16:37.080 --> 00:16:40.639 they would never be caught without slime ever. 281 00:16:41.080 --> 00:16:46.399 Wow, amazing beautiful slime machines. The threads that make up 282 00:16:46.440 --> 00:16:52.279 this water trapping slime network are ten million times longer 283 00:16:52.320 --> 00:16:56.120 than they are wide, and they are somehow neatly coiled 284 00:16:56.399 --> 00:16:59.519 like a skin of yarn into a tiny cell capsule 285 00:16:59.720 --> 00:17:04.200 ready to be ejected and unfurl. I mean, admit it, 286 00:17:04.480 --> 00:17:07.599 you love hagfish. You love them now, don't you? Okay? 287 00:17:07.599 --> 00:17:09.799 But how big or how small can they get? Have 288 00:17:09.839 --> 00:17:12.200 they become bigger over time? Or have they gotten smaller 289 00:17:12.240 --> 00:17:15.359 in recent eras? Do they keep growing the older they get? 290 00:17:15.680 --> 00:17:17.759 You know, we're already seeing like some of these hagfish 291 00:17:17.799 --> 00:17:21.680 are four to six feet long. Others are absolutely tiny, 292 00:17:21.960 --> 00:17:25.200 like you know, ten centimeters. I'm sorry I keep jumping 293 00:17:25.240 --> 00:17:28.519 between the two systems, but you and we just don't 294 00:17:28.559 --> 00:17:29.920 know how old they get, no. 295 00:17:29.839 --> 00:17:33.559 Because nothing calcifies, there's nothing to there's such a mystery. 296 00:17:33.960 --> 00:17:36.279 And so that's one of those things that a lot 297 00:17:36.319 --> 00:17:41.319 of fish are indeterminate growers, right, Like, they technically have 298 00:17:41.440 --> 00:17:45.839 the potential to grow forever. Right but in the deep sea, 299 00:17:45.960 --> 00:17:49.799 especially with such a strong defense mechanism like this line 300 00:17:49.839 --> 00:17:52.400 that they have, you know, yeah, they could, they could 301 00:17:52.440 --> 00:17:54.680 live decades, they could live over one hundred years. 302 00:17:54.680 --> 00:18:00.519 Who knows, one hundred year old possibly jawless, slimy tube 303 00:18:01.119 --> 00:18:03.920 of whale eating charisma. That is what a hagfish is. 304 00:18:04.079 --> 00:18:06.759 And I could ask questions for one hundred more years. 305 00:18:06.799 --> 00:18:09.640 But onto your questions, patrons. But first, we make a 306 00:18:09.680 --> 00:18:11.680 donation every episode, and this week we're going to send 307 00:18:11.680 --> 00:18:14.960 some cash to the Ocean Exploration Trust, which is a 308 00:18:15.000 --> 00:18:19.319 nonprofit established to explore the world's oceans and seek out 309 00:18:19.400 --> 00:18:24.680 new discoveries in the fields of geology and biology, maritime history, archaeology, 310 00:18:25.000 --> 00:18:29.400 and chemistry. And the Ocean Exploration Trust owns and operates 311 00:18:29.440 --> 00:18:33.200 the exploration vessel Nautilus, and you can see their expeditions 312 00:18:33.400 --> 00:18:37.640 via Nautilus Live on YouTube, which are wonderful. I love 313 00:18:37.720 --> 00:18:39.839 them so much. I'm going to link on my website 314 00:18:39.880 --> 00:18:44.240 at aliword dot com slash smologies, slash hagfish, shout out 315 00:18:44.440 --> 00:18:45.440 to the Nautilus crew. 316 00:18:45.519 --> 00:18:50.359 Virgin Media broadband is smooth. How smooth you ask? Well, 317 00:18:50.559 --> 00:18:51.880 imagine you're a big old. 318 00:18:51.720 --> 00:18:55.680 War Rushian and rather than lumbering around a glacier avoiding 319 00:18:55.720 --> 00:19:00.680 polar bears, you're on a lake, driving the speedboat three 320 00:19:00.680 --> 00:19:05.200 thousand kilos of mollusk, munching magnificence, feeling the wind in 321 00:19:05.240 --> 00:19:08.319 your whiskers and the sun on your big blubbery face. 322 00:19:09.920 --> 00:19:12.720 That's the kind of smoothness you feel. 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There's interest in using it as a 371 00:21:32.000 --> 00:21:35.079 food product as well as like an egg replacement. I've 372 00:21:35.119 --> 00:21:40.759 seen hagfish slime itself turn up in recipes really yeah, yeah, 373 00:21:40.799 --> 00:21:44.039 So I think that there's people for a long time 374 00:21:44.119 --> 00:21:47.000 have been looking to use it for different things. I 375 00:21:47.039 --> 00:21:51.079 think partially what's limited it is the availability of hagfish 376 00:21:51.160 --> 00:21:56.279 like they're just not super common on land. Yeah, and 377 00:21:57.960 --> 00:22:02.759 as well that it's difficult to store the slime. 378 00:22:03.000 --> 00:22:04.680 Oh so yeah, what happens if you have a mason 379 00:22:04.759 --> 00:22:06.039 jar for the hagfish line. 380 00:22:06.240 --> 00:22:11.480 It eventually, if it's in water, it will collapse. The 381 00:22:11.519 --> 00:22:17.720 network does collapse down, and it essentially will somewhat dissolve away. 382 00:22:18.039 --> 00:22:19.920 Colin Elijah wants to know where do they fall in 383 00:22:19.960 --> 00:22:22.680 the food chain? You know, do other animals want to 384 00:22:22.680 --> 00:22:25.839 even eat something that slimy? But yeah, but if you're 385 00:22:26.319 --> 00:22:29.960 a mammal, a sea mammal, you can chomp on it. Yeah, 386 00:22:29.960 --> 00:22:31.960 but where do they fall in the food chain? 387 00:22:32.759 --> 00:22:36.599 Yeah, I would say, yeah, I wouldn't say that they 388 00:22:36.680 --> 00:22:39.759 form the bottom of the food chain, okay, but I 389 00:22:39.799 --> 00:22:44.559 wouldn't say that they're necessarily the top either. You know, 390 00:22:44.680 --> 00:22:48.559 there's a lot of really active predators even in the deep, 391 00:22:48.759 --> 00:22:52.680 Like there's big active shark species. There's big fish species 392 00:22:53.920 --> 00:22:57.960 that would probably be the dominant predator down there. But 393 00:22:58.519 --> 00:23:01.400 I think that because does they have such a strong 394 00:23:01.440 --> 00:23:04.519 defense mechanism which could also be viewed as sort of 395 00:23:04.519 --> 00:23:07.920 a competitive thing. So as they're feeding at a carcass, 396 00:23:07.960 --> 00:23:11.160 they do release bits of slime, h right, And that's 397 00:23:11.200 --> 00:23:13.640 sort of one of My ideas too, is whether or 398 00:23:13.640 --> 00:23:17.720 not they actually use it to compete around a carcass. Right, 399 00:23:17.799 --> 00:23:20.839 So hagfish can all deal with the slime, but nothing 400 00:23:20.920 --> 00:23:24.759 else can, right. But yeah, in terms of where they fall, 401 00:23:25.359 --> 00:23:28.519