Speaker 1: You're listening to Later with mo Kelly on demand from
Speaker 1: KFI AM six forty.
Speaker 2: It's a letter with.
Speaker 3: Mo Kelly and Marshall Callier on this Tech Thursday. We're
Speaker 3: live everywhere in the iHeartRadio app. Marshall Callier, let's dispense
Speaker 3: with the pleasantries because we got to get to it.
Speaker 2: Signal.
Speaker 3: Signal, Signal, it's the I will say, a portion of
Speaker 3: the biggest story in the world. Most people may not
Speaker 3: have known about signal. What is it beyond obviously some
Speaker 3: sort of communication.
Speaker 4: I thought it was some sort of religious thing for personally,
Speaker 4: I didn't really know. But since we know about signal,
Speaker 4: and one of the things people don't know is what
Speaker 4: is encryption? And we entered encrypt. Well what's encrypt mean? Well,
Speaker 4: there are different kinds of encryption, but in this case,
Speaker 4: I'm sure you've heard of end to end encryption, yes,
Speaker 4: which Gmail supposedly does, right, and Signal does that with
Speaker 4: your texts, as does WhatsApp, as does Telegram.
Speaker 5: Uh so it's not uncommon.
Speaker 4: But you can have man in the middle attacks and
Speaker 4: a man in the middle attack, just like when somebody
Speaker 4: can come up to your house and sees your Wi
Speaker 4: Fi system so they can rob you and your alarm
Speaker 4: won't go off. People can intercept your phone and get
Speaker 4: all the information.
Speaker 2: But you know, no, go ahead, go ahead, Please continue.
Speaker 4: But we had a solution to this which I don't
Speaker 4: understand frankly, and we'll talk about the Signal company and Milte.
Speaker 4: There was BlackBerry, yes, if you remember, President Obama used
Speaker 4: BlackBerry till the end.
Speaker 3: All right, hold that thought, because I want to play
Speaker 3: this clip which kind of highlights where I think you're going.
Speaker 3: And this is Chris Pearson, who is the CEO of
Speaker 3: black Cloak, and he makes this distinct that I want
Speaker 3: you to elaborate on.
Speaker 2: So listen to this. Please.
Speaker 6: A text message that you send between yourself and your parents,
Speaker 6: your brothers, your friends, that is pretty much akin to
Speaker 6: sending a postcard. Writing the information on a postcard that
Speaker 6: everyone can see in the mail not going to be
Speaker 6: secure if you have to transmit that information to family member,
Speaker 6: social security number, other information there and you want to
Speaker 6: use in cryptocommunication. Signal is going to be an.
Speaker 7: Application of a choice, but it is a consumer based application.
Speaker 7: The real issue here is that for sensitive or classified
Speaker 7: information that is being used by and transmitted by the
Speaker 7: government that number one, the devices must be protected and
Speaker 7: number two, the application and the transmission.
Speaker 5: Of the data must be protected.
Speaker 8: Just simply using an encrypted app that is only consumer
Speaker 8: grade on a personal device is actually going to open
Speaker 8: up the United States and others to forums, fine hacking,
Speaker 8: and other risks.
Speaker 2: What I want to know is he makes a distinction
Speaker 2: between encrypt.
Speaker 3: The data, which you just talked about, and also the
Speaker 3: device protection.
Speaker 2: What does he mean by that.
Speaker 4: Well, the data encryption and device encryption in a device,
Speaker 4: it encrypts the storage on the device, which we have.
Speaker 4: Actually currently Windows has a built in program, as does
Speaker 4: Apple file Vault on Apple, but those are full device encryption.
Speaker 5: Now, what Signal.
Speaker 4: Does is it takes the data, encrypts it, in other words,
Speaker 4: turns it into gibberis. So if somebody did intercept that,
Speaker 4: they wouldn't be able to make sense of it. And
Speaker 4: that's a call or a text and once it lands
Speaker 4: on their servers because it has to land on a
Speaker 4: server for it to bounce back to somewhere else.
Speaker 3: So okay, so you can't necessarily hack Signal that data transfer, right,
Speaker 3: But I get the sense that like a personal device,
Speaker 3: since we're talking about government may be more susceptible to
Speaker 3: being attacked.
Speaker 4: Well, have you ever seen something and that's called millspeck
Speaker 4: when you're looking for a case for your phone or
Speaker 4: a battery. MILLSPEC means military specifications. Okay, okay, there are
Speaker 4: grades of security. I don't know how many there are.
Speaker 4: But just just like Resident Obama was told stop using BlackBerry,
Speaker 4: it's a danger. Why is that because it wasn't millspec.
Speaker 4: It wasn't strong enough. You see, you can have a
Speaker 4: rope that's a quarter of an inch thick, you can have.
Speaker 2: A rope that's great analogy four.
Speaker 4: Inches thick, and there's your difference. It's a lot harder
Speaker 4: to saw through that four inch thick rope. So that's
Speaker 4: your real difference. It's a high level of security. And
Speaker 4: if your disc is encrypted where you store the sensitive information,
Speaker 4: it'll prevent unauthorized access.
Speaker 5: Got it, so they can't be hacked.
Speaker 4: They you see, there's other softwares involved here too that
Speaker 4: are protecting we'll say the hard drive, but that's a
Speaker 4: little bit.
Speaker 2: So people understand what you're saying.
Speaker 4: Yeah, basically the hard drive and keeping the data in
Speaker 4: gibberish should anybody break it through.
Speaker 5: But if you've got Millspeck, if you've.
Speaker 4: Got which brings to the whole thing, why does not
Speaker 4: our US government? Since BlackBerry had these great products, and
Speaker 4: we know Signal and Signal is a five oh one
Speaker 4: three c charitable foundation. They're in data and their data
Speaker 4: of programming is free for anyone to use to develop
Speaker 4: new software.
Speaker 2: Or deconstruct and reverse engineer too.
Speaker 4: I would imagine, yes you can, but I mean they
Speaker 4: take donations.
Speaker 5: I checked it. It's owned by the Signal Foundation.
Speaker 4: So when it comes to all of this gone to space,
Speaker 4: for heaven's sake, why can't we put together an app
Speaker 4: that's used for governments?
Speaker 5: Karen Bass would be real happy if we had one
Speaker 5: of those.
Speaker 2: Mm hmmm.
Speaker 4: I mean all levels of government. It should be what
Speaker 4: our government uses to talk to each other, period, and
Speaker 4: it should automatically record their texts and their calls so
Speaker 4: that the record is kept, as you know, technically must
Speaker 4: be kept.
Speaker 3: Because of the Federal Records Act. And that's what you
Speaker 3: touch upon. But I'm guessing I don't know. I suspect
Speaker 3: that people are using Signal because they don't want a
Speaker 3: record of everything that they're community.
Speaker 5: Exactly, and that's true.
Speaker 4: You can use telegram and WhatsApp, like I said, but still,
Speaker 4: when you're talking about military, when you're talking about thousands
Speaker 4: of lives at stake, when you're talking about bombing and
Speaker 4: sinking ships, you really really better put down the dollars
Speaker 4: to put together real software. And honestly, since we have
Speaker 4: such a base of excellent software, now I can tell
Speaker 4: you I'm sure that there is something, but it should
Speaker 4: be distributed to all government agencies.
Speaker 3: Or let me ask you this the possibility it does
Speaker 3: already exist that level of encrypted software which will protect
Speaker 3: not only the communication but the device.
Speaker 2: But individuals have chosen not to use it.
Speaker 5: Well, you see that's the problem.
Speaker 2: You know.
Speaker 4: It's like we talk about our elected people. How many
Speaker 4: of them ever ran a business? Do they know how
Speaker 4: to run a budget? I don't know that they know
Speaker 4: how to run a device, even a phone that has
Speaker 4: to send out a ping to translate.
Speaker 2: I don't think they have to know. I'm quite sure
Speaker 2: they're instructed.
Speaker 3: I'm quite sure there are protocols that are put in place,
Speaker 3: such as don't use your own personal device to communicate
Speaker 3: sensitive information, which way know is a variable in this discussion.
Speaker 4: Absolutely, but they don't know. I mean, if you remember
Speaker 4: any of the Congressional hearings or the Senate hearings when
Speaker 4: they ask questions no offense. I'm sure they're really nice
Speaker 4: people in our elected government, but they don't know jack
Speaker 4: about tech tech. I mean kind of having somebody like
Speaker 4: Elon Good or Bad can at least teach them some
Speaker 4: sort of tech or his people can teach them something
Speaker 4: that's going to make our country safer and better for everybody.
Speaker 5: Because yes, spies.
Speaker 3: But we know and you're someone who's traveled the world.
Speaker 3: You have been to China, you know about their capabilities
Speaker 3: and their intentions. Security doesn't mean much if not everyone.
Speaker 3: For example, let me make it real basic and easy
Speaker 3: for people to understand. You can have the best lock
Speaker 3: in the world on your house, but if you leave
Speaker 3: the door unlocks when you walk out, it doesn't make
Speaker 3: a lot of difference.
Speaker 4: But again, like I said, Millspeck consumer grade. There's a
Speaker 4: guy who can walk up to your house and shut
Speaker 4: your WiFi down with a one hundred and ninety nine
Speaker 4: dollars device.
Speaker 2: That's consumer grade.
Speaker 4: But they're telling you you're going to be protected by
Speaker 4: having this expensive system running on Wi Fi. Oh let's
Speaker 4: Wi Fi your door locks. Yes, let's make that safe.
Speaker 2: Marshall Collier, I'd love you for that.
Speaker 3: You just gave us the pure, unfiltered truth, even though
Speaker 3: it may be scary. But speaking of scary, let's talk
Speaker 3: about twenty three and meters and what has just been
Speaker 3: announced regarding that court case and bankruptcy. Finally, when we
Speaker 3: come back, it's later with mo Kelly. Marshall Callier joins
Speaker 3: me in the studio, dropping pearls of wisdom.
Speaker 2: We're live everywhere the iHeartRadio app.
Speaker 1: You're listening to Later with mo Kelly on demand from
Speaker 1: KFI AM six forty.
Speaker 3: Later with mo Kelly and Marshall Callier continues to join
Speaker 3: me in studio on this Tech Thursday. We discussed earlier
Speaker 3: in the what is going on with ancestry excuse me
Speaker 3: twenty three and me the DNA company where you can
Speaker 3: find out about your ancestry, Well, how are your twenty
Speaker 3: three percent this or twenty five percent that? And I
Speaker 3: remember saying that since they're going through bankruptcy, I would
Speaker 3: be very scared if I had given my DNA, if
Speaker 3: only because as they try to settle up with their creditors.
Speaker 3: The only thing that twenty three and meters has of
Speaker 3: value would be its data.
Speaker 5: That's the only asset. That's all there is.
Speaker 2: Now.
Speaker 4: You and I talked about this a couple of years ago,
Speaker 4: as it is what you warned this fact why we
Speaker 4: shouldn't be doing this. Now they're bankrupt, they owe money.
Speaker 4: What happens they have to raise money, so they're going
Speaker 4: to have to sell their only assets. And I believe
Speaker 4: it was yesterday the judge in the case gave them
Speaker 4: permission to sell the DNA data.
Speaker 2: They don't even have to do it surreptitiously.
Speaker 4: No, they have a judge's okay. Now, remember we in
Speaker 4: California were covered by the California Consumer Privacy Act. Yeah, yeah,
Speaker 4: very nice. Our politicians did that. But the Genetic Information
Speaker 4: Privacy Act GIPA is a federal act which covers all
Speaker 4: of us. And we may have a really robust policy
Speaker 4: in California, but everybody is so let me tell you
Speaker 4: what to do. Because the judge said, well, you know,
Speaker 4: you can settle the sale of the company then and
Speaker 4: then and so it's a moving target. It's when things
Speaker 4: happen in the stock market, you just can't put a finger.
Speaker 4: It's like trying to catch a slight falling knife. You
Speaker 4: don't want to do that. So I want anybody who
Speaker 4: has ever used twenty three in May to go to
Speaker 4: the site, sign in your account, and go to the
Speaker 4: settings section of your profile. In the settings section of
Speaker 4: your profile, scroll to the section labeled twenty three and
Speaker 4: me data at the bottom of page. Clickview next to
Speaker 4: twenty three and me data. Now download your data. You
Speaker 4: paid for this, it is yours. If you want a
Speaker 4: copy of your genetic data for your personal storage, choose
Speaker 4: the option to download it to your device before proceeding.
Speaker 5: Do that first.
Speaker 3: Here's my question, because I always think like a criminal,
Speaker 3: even though I'm not one. The criminal in me would say, well,
Speaker 3: just because you downloaded your data doesn't mean that you
Speaker 3: have the only copy of your data that is not
Speaker 3: still going to be sold to a third party.
Speaker 5: Not Millspeck.
Speaker 2: There you go.
Speaker 3: I mean, but I remember, I'm sorry to interrupt you,
Speaker 3: but I remember how twenty three meters was bending over backwards.
Speaker 3: They had an actual ad campaign they were doing on
Speaker 3: radio stations saying that no, we're not going to sell
Speaker 3: your data, your data is safe, yeah yeah, yeah, blah blah,
Speaker 3: And maybe that was the truth or their original intention.
Speaker 2: Well it's being sold down right.
Speaker 4: But the thing is, the other company, Ancestry, was at
Speaker 4: least tied in with helping people get to records and
Speaker 4: information so they could put together their family's genealogy. Twenty
Speaker 4: three and me had nothing really except.
Speaker 2: You had to input the data.
Speaker 4: You're two percent from Iceland. So once you download your data,
Speaker 4: you just scroll to the delete data section. That should
Speaker 4: be easy click permanently delete data.
Speaker 2: Now they don't have a copy somewhere.
Speaker 5: Okay, I'm telling.
Speaker 2: You, I know you just say what they're saying. I
Speaker 2: just waited.
Speaker 4: Actually they didn't say this everybody, but that there's more
Speaker 4: confirm your request. You'll receive an email from twenty three
Speaker 4: in may. Follow the link in the email to confirm
Speaker 4: your delete. So once you've deleted it, you better answer
Speaker 4: that email otherwise, oh wise you haven't confirmed you want
Speaker 4: to delete it now, if you've previously opted to have
Speaker 4: your saliva sample and DNA stored by twenty three and
Speaker 4: meters and a lot of people did for research purposes
Speaker 4: things like that, you want to change the preferences and
Speaker 4: you can do that from your account settings page. Go
Speaker 4: to preferences and you can withdraw consent on the account
Speaker 4: settings page under Research and Product Consents. So do it
Speaker 4: under GIPA, which I mentioned earlier, California consumers can delete
Speaker 4: their account and genetic data and have the actual biological
Speaker 4: sample destroyed.
Speaker 5: Now, whether they're going to do it or not, you.
Speaker 2: Know, it's just like a like pinky swear.
Speaker 4: Yeah, it's pinky swear. Because I remember when this was
Speaker 4: first coming up. Famous school I think was Harvard did
Speaker 4: a study because they would tell you it's anonymized, it's
Speaker 4: under a number, it's not under your name. But they
Speaker 4: could tell from either the saliva or the blood or
Speaker 4: whatever what pollens this person was inhaling. They could narrow
Speaker 4: down to a mile of where that sample came from
Speaker 4: without having that information, and then put in, oh, well
Speaker 4: there's a red hair gene here that how many redheads
Speaker 4: live in that once? Okay, so and they can go
Speaker 4: through the genetic data and blow your cover it is
Speaker 4: not anonymized.
Speaker 2: Well that's cheery. I feel all better already know.
Speaker 3: Actually, I'm very glad that I never did it, And
Speaker 3: to my knowledge, no one in my family has either.
Speaker 5: Yeah you never know.
Speaker 3: I said, As far as I know, no one in
Speaker 3: my family has maybe they did it and didn't tell anyone.
Speaker 3: The next thing I know, mister Kelly, you're wanted from
Speaker 3: me because you mentioned genealogy profile.
Speaker 4: I don't understand when we see the crime movies where
Speaker 4: the guy drops his coffee cup in the garbage can
Speaker 4: all of a sudden, you know, the CSI guy just
Speaker 4: picks it up and oh yeah, there's DNA now, oh yeah, yeah, Like,
Speaker 4: how could that be legal?
Speaker 3: Because I actually do know the answer to good Because
Speaker 3: just like anything which is in your trash can out
Speaker 3: on the street, you don't have a reasonable expectation of
Speaker 3: privacy for that which has been discarded. So if it's
Speaker 3: been discarded now, I don't know if they can just
Speaker 3: you know, take a glass off your desk just because
Speaker 3: they came in to talk to you and try to
Speaker 3: take your DNA.
Speaker 2: But stranger things have happened.
Speaker 5: Really.
Speaker 3: Yeah, I'm a cynical person, so I just believe the
Speaker 3: worst of people.
Speaker 4: I'm to the Club of twenty four. If you remember
Speaker 4: that series, you know, trust no one. I really don't
Speaker 4: trust because it's too easy to break the rules.
Speaker 3: Marsha Collier more great advice. Trust nobody. I don't trust Mark.
Speaker 3: I don't trust Stefan, damn sure. Don't trust Twala. No,
Speaker 3: I'm being serious, Mark, I do not trust you. You
Speaker 3: shouldn't like you, No, you shouldn't. This is perceptive on
Speaker 3: your partner. Marshall Collier. Always great to see.
Speaker 5: I'll see you next week and let's have a cheerier topic.
Speaker 3: Well, look, the world is gonna do what the world's
Speaker 3: gonna do, and the news is gonna be what.
Speaker 2: The news is. I know, no guarantees, I don't know.
Speaker 5: Okay, we'll figure out something.
Speaker 2: I'll see you soon.
Speaker 1: Oh you're listening to Later with Moe Kelly on demand
Speaker 1: from KFI AM six forty