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If we were 23 00:01:02.079 --> 00:01:04.040 primitted by loss he terms and conditions eighteen plus. 24 00:01:11.200 --> 00:01:14.640 You are now listening to True Murder the most shocking 25 00:01:14.719 --> 00:01:17.760 killers in true crime history and the authors that have 26 00:01:17.840 --> 00:01:25.120 written about them Gaesy, Bundy, Dahmer, The Nightstalker DTK. Every 27 00:01:25.159 --> 00:01:28.840 week another fascinating author talking about the most shocking and 28 00:01:28.959 --> 00:01:33.120 infamous killers in true crime history. True Murder with your 29 00:01:33.159 --> 00:01:36.359 host journalist and author Dan Zufanski. 30 00:01:46.599 --> 00:01:50.239 Good Evening. In nineteen seventy six, a killer who called 31 00:01:50.319 --> 00:01:53.200 himself the son of Sam, shot and killed a half 32 00:01:53.239 --> 00:01:56.519 dozen people and wounded as many more in New York City. 33 00:01:57.239 --> 00:02:00.640 During his crime spree, the madman left bizarre lets mocking 34 00:02:00.640 --> 00:02:05.000 the police and promising more deaths. After months of terrorizing 35 00:02:05.040 --> 00:02:09.319 the city while garnering front page headlines and international attention, 36 00:02:09.919 --> 00:02:13.800 a man named David Berkowitz was arrested. He confessed to 37 00:02:13.840 --> 00:02:16.759 the shootings, claiming to be obeying a demon that resided 38 00:02:16.759 --> 00:02:20.280 in a dog that belonged to his neighbor Sam. Among 39 00:02:20.319 --> 00:02:24.280 the alleged victims was Carl Denaro. On the night he 40 00:02:24.360 --> 00:02:27.479 was shot, Denaro was hanging out with some friends at 41 00:02:27.520 --> 00:02:29.240 a bar when he met up with a woman named 42 00:02:29.400 --> 00:02:32.560 Rosemary Keenan. The couple left the bar and went to 43 00:02:32.639 --> 00:02:36.280 Keenan's car for some privacy However, a few minutes later, 44 00:02:36.639 --> 00:02:39.080 the windows of the car exploded as de Naro was 45 00:02:39.120 --> 00:02:43.680 shot in the head by an unseen assailant. Miraculously, Denaro 46 00:02:44.000 --> 00:02:47.400 survived the attack. When Berkowitz was arrested, he was charged 47 00:02:47.439 --> 00:02:50.639 with trying to kill Denaro. However, there was a twist. 48 00:02:51.919 --> 00:02:54.680 Although he confessed to the other shootings after his conviction, 49 00:02:55.199 --> 00:03:00.439 Berkowitz denied attacking Denaro. Now, after years of research, Denaro 50 00:03:00.599 --> 00:03:03.479 is convinced that Berkowitz was telling the truth and that 51 00:03:03.520 --> 00:03:06.560 someone else tried to kill him. The book that we're 52 00:03:06.560 --> 00:03:09.000 featuring this evening is The Son of Sam and Me 53 00:03:09.680 --> 00:03:12.680 The Truth About Why I Wasn't shot by David Berkowitz, 54 00:03:13.159 --> 00:03:18.879 with my special guests, investigator and author Carl Denario. Welcome 55 00:03:18.919 --> 00:03:21.479 to the program, and thank you so much for this interview. 56 00:03:21.639 --> 00:03:25.240 Carl Denaro, Thanks Dan, thanks for having me. 57 00:03:26.199 --> 00:03:30.919 Thank you so much for this. First off, you talk 58 00:03:30.960 --> 00:03:34.479 about in the book before we get to the Faithful Day, 59 00:03:34.599 --> 00:03:38.000 obviously that you became inextricably involved with the Son and 60 00:03:38.520 --> 00:03:44.080 Son of Sam story, and also this case you give 61 00:03:44.120 --> 00:03:48.759 credit to your daughter, Casey so many years later, your daughter, 62 00:03:50.080 --> 00:03:54.560 how was she an influence? What happened and why in 63 00:03:55.080 --> 00:04:00.479 this project that she had as a film student. What 64 00:04:01.000 --> 00:04:03.240 inspired you to write this book? 65 00:04:05.680 --> 00:04:10.360 Well, I've got her on an idea of writing a 66 00:04:10.400 --> 00:04:13.400 book for many, many years, but I never really felt 67 00:04:13.800 --> 00:04:17.079 I had a story that other people would be interested in. 68 00:04:18.399 --> 00:04:23.000 Along about twenty fifteen, my daughter was a film student 69 00:04:23.040 --> 00:04:27.920 at the time, had to produce a student thesis film 70 00:04:28.879 --> 00:04:35.160 and she decided to do a story on me. So 71 00:04:36.399 --> 00:04:40.839 through her interview interview with me and my friends, my family, 72 00:04:40.959 --> 00:04:44.759 a lot of questions that never really were asked to 73 00:04:44.800 --> 00:04:51.439 me or I really thought about, came up and got 74 00:04:51.480 --> 00:04:53.639 me thinking. By the time, by the time she was 75 00:04:53.680 --> 00:04:59.480 done with the script, I realized that there was I 76 00:04:59.519 --> 00:05:01.480 did have a story and I did have a book. 77 00:05:02.959 --> 00:05:07.079 She eventually finished the film, and it's a short film 78 00:05:07.160 --> 00:05:13.000 sixteen minutes called Carl Very Original, and I went on 79 00:05:13.040 --> 00:05:15.759 to win a few awards. She won the New York 80 00:05:15.800 --> 00:05:21.000 Women's Film Award, TV Emerging Female Filmmaker Award, and she 81 00:05:21.079 --> 00:05:26.000 won a student grant from the National Boarder Review. I 82 00:05:26.680 --> 00:05:31.160 was also in the movie as a detective Blues, who 83 00:05:31.759 --> 00:05:34.639 is obviously a real character, so that was kind of 84 00:05:34.680 --> 00:05:37.079 cool to get my face on camera. 85 00:05:38.600 --> 00:05:43.360 Yes, you said too that this book was this. You know, 86 00:05:43.399 --> 00:05:46.480 this is an incredible book project to endeavor to do, 87 00:05:47.759 --> 00:05:49.519 and it was a little more difficult than even might 88 00:05:49.560 --> 00:05:52.839 have thought. Tell us about the help you got from 89 00:05:52.920 --> 00:05:54.040 author Brian Whitney. 90 00:05:56.120 --> 00:06:01.240 Sure, so, yeah, the book was difficult for me to 91 00:06:01.279 --> 00:06:05.199 write on a few levels. First off, me and I 92 00:06:05.279 --> 00:06:08.000 never wrote a book before, and I took a few 93 00:06:08.040 --> 00:06:11.600 writing classes that my daughter signed me up for, and 94 00:06:13.199 --> 00:06:15.160 I wrote a little bit and I said, oh, this 95 00:06:15.240 --> 00:06:18.920 is this is cool. I can do this. And when 96 00:06:18.959 --> 00:06:23.680 I when I started writing the book, I was lost. 97 00:06:25.000 --> 00:06:29.759 So yeah, So a mutual mutual friend who actually published 98 00:06:29.759 --> 00:06:38.319 a book told me about Brian, and I contacted Brian 99 00:06:38.319 --> 00:06:42.759 Whitney and told him my story, and we met and 100 00:06:43.319 --> 00:06:47.959 we hit it off and we became writing partners. And 101 00:06:48.680 --> 00:06:53.720 the process basically was, you know, I would I would 102 00:06:53.759 --> 00:06:56.199 do the best I could. I'd write five, six, seven, 103 00:06:56.319 --> 00:06:59.160 ten pages and send it to Brian, and Brian would, 104 00:07:00.639 --> 00:07:04.560 you know, smooth everything out and you know, make my 105 00:07:04.639 --> 00:07:09.079 ten pages into twenty or thirty pages. And this process 106 00:07:09.160 --> 00:07:14.920 took close to a year, mostly because of me, not 107 00:07:14.959 --> 00:07:15.680 because of Brian. 108 00:07:17.360 --> 00:07:22.680 Right now, with this as well, what's very important about 109 00:07:22.680 --> 00:07:27.240 this is a book by Maury Terry who becomes a friend, 110 00:07:27.240 --> 00:07:30.959 and we'll be talking about extensively about Mary Terry's influence 111 00:07:31.000 --> 00:07:33.480 in this and your friendship and the investigation that you 112 00:07:33.600 --> 00:07:37.959 both undertook to find out the truth that now has 113 00:07:38.480 --> 00:07:40.600 come to light in this book Son of Sam and me. 114 00:07:41.399 --> 00:07:45.959 Let's talk about what you're not trying to sell us 115 00:07:46.000 --> 00:07:52.079 on in this book, but also what was uncovered when 116 00:07:52.079 --> 00:07:54.879 you read Maury Terry's book The Ultimate Evil. 117 00:07:57.360 --> 00:08:04.279 Okay, So that breaks me to another difficult part of 118 00:08:04.319 --> 00:08:09.160 writing this book. As I started writing, I realized that 119 00:08:09.360 --> 00:08:12.920 I wanted to tell my story and how it affected 120 00:08:12.959 --> 00:08:17.879 my life over the last forty five years. And I 121 00:08:17.959 --> 00:08:22.560 realized very quickly that I can't do that without explaining 122 00:08:22.680 --> 00:08:26.800 the Son of Sam shootings. So I started writing about 123 00:08:26.800 --> 00:08:31.959 each shooting, and halfway through, I said, I don't want 124 00:08:32.000 --> 00:08:35.960 to rewrite The Ultimate Evil. That's not my goal. So 125 00:08:36.039 --> 00:08:39.480 that became very difficult, not you know, I mean, obviously 126 00:08:39.480 --> 00:08:41.639 it's the same case, so a lot of the same 127 00:08:41.679 --> 00:08:46.559 information is there. But I really wanted to write, you know, 128 00:08:47.919 --> 00:08:53.360 the story from my viewpoint. I also wanted to bring 129 00:08:53.399 --> 00:08:57.279 forward to the general public the conspiracy theory which has 130 00:08:57.360 --> 00:09:02.399 been I don't want to say, debunked, but it's been 131 00:09:02.559 --> 00:09:07.159 poopooed by the press and by the police for since 132 00:09:07.240 --> 00:09:09.559 Mary Terry's book came out in nineteen eighty seven. 133 00:09:10.639 --> 00:09:17.360 Right now, you talk about the official story, and people 134 00:09:17.399 --> 00:09:20.720 that followed this case know that there was an official 135 00:09:20.799 --> 00:09:26.559 story early on about a dog. We've referenced in the introduction. 136 00:09:27.480 --> 00:09:32.799 There was the official story when you were were attacked 137 00:09:33.440 --> 00:09:38.159 and afterwards, what was the official story that you heard 138 00:09:38.879 --> 00:09:41.799 following that before they made any kind of connection to 139 00:09:41.919 --> 00:09:43.960 this forty four caliber killer? 140 00:09:45.799 --> 00:09:52.720 Is sure the original story I was the second It 141 00:09:52.759 --> 00:09:55.360 turned out I was a second victim shop by son 142 00:09:55.399 --> 00:09:58.200 of Sam, but there was no son of Sam at 143 00:09:58.200 --> 00:10:01.200 the time, so it appeared to the police that was 144 00:10:01.600 --> 00:10:05.639 a random shooting. And the fact that I, you know, 145 00:10:05.799 --> 00:10:10.120 I smoked pot, I had long hair, and the girl 146 00:10:10.159 --> 00:10:13.759 I was with her father was a detective and he 147 00:10:14.559 --> 00:10:22.159 was assigned to my case. So his immediate his immediate 148 00:10:22.480 --> 00:10:27.759 reaction was it took a drug deal gone wrong, and 149 00:10:27.840 --> 00:10:32.320 that certainly was not the case. But I didn't know 150 00:10:32.360 --> 00:10:34.879 who shot me, so I really didn't have much defense. 151 00:10:36.879 --> 00:10:41.120 That went on for six months from October twenty third, 152 00:10:41.559 --> 00:10:46.240 the day I was shot, until March tenth, nineteen seventy seven, 153 00:10:46.639 --> 00:10:52.679 when Police Commissioner Cod and the mayor Mayor A Beam 154 00:10:53.519 --> 00:10:56.320 had a press conference and said, we have a serial 155 00:10:56.399 --> 00:11:02.720 killer and we were able to link five random shootings 156 00:11:02.759 --> 00:11:07.759 to this serial killer. So for six months I was, 157 00:11:08.440 --> 00:11:11.759 you know, on the charts when the police department as 158 00:11:12.559 --> 00:11:13.559 you know, a drug dealer. 159 00:11:15.120 --> 00:11:18.360 Let's let's get to your Let's get to your particular case, 160 00:11:18.360 --> 00:11:21.080 because there's no way anybody can imagine how you would 161 00:11:21.120 --> 00:11:23.679 be depicted as a or this case is a drug 162 00:11:23.720 --> 00:11:27.799 deal gone bad. I laugh at that hilarious depiction all 163 00:11:27.799 --> 00:11:30.000 the time. Drug deal gone bad sounds like everything was 164 00:11:30.039 --> 00:11:33.919 done in Mexico with hotel or something, you know. So 165 00:11:34.120 --> 00:11:37.440 let's let's talk about yourself. This is this is incredible. 166 00:11:37.480 --> 00:11:40.240 This is the last night before you left to join 167 00:11:40.279 --> 00:11:42.240 the air Force. So tell us about this air force 168 00:11:42.279 --> 00:11:44.720 and who you were. You had, you were long haired, 169 00:11:45.360 --> 00:11:48.399 you talk about smoking pot. Tell our audience who you 170 00:11:48.480 --> 00:11:52.360 were at this time in nineteen seventy six and this night, 171 00:11:52.480 --> 00:11:56.240 particularly October twenty second, nineteen seventy six. Who were you 172 00:11:56.639 --> 00:12:00.240 and what were you doing and how did you up 173 00:12:00.240 --> 00:12:03.480 meeting with Rosemary Keenan who his father just happened to 174 00:12:03.519 --> 00:12:04.200 be a detective. 175 00:12:07.440 --> 00:12:10.639 Yeah, that's you know, I was twenty years old, I said, 176 00:12:10.720 --> 00:12:17.840 long hair, you know, finel Sharts jeans. You know, I guess, 177 00:12:16.480 --> 00:12:23.639 the last of the hippies from the sixties. And you know, 178 00:12:23.799 --> 00:12:26.600 I had dropped out of college at you know, a 179 00:12:26.600 --> 00:12:30.559 few mineral jobs that I didn't really I said, there's 180 00:12:30.600 --> 00:12:33.360 no you know, there's no future here, and I decided 181 00:12:33.399 --> 00:12:38.320 to join the Air Force. So I joined. I enlisted 182 00:12:38.320 --> 00:12:41.799 in the Air Force, and they gave me what they 183 00:12:41.840 --> 00:12:46.840 call a deferred reporting date. So they gave me I 184 00:12:46.919 --> 00:12:53.519 was sworn in in August of seventy six, and my 185 00:12:53.679 --> 00:12:57.759 report date was October twenty eighth of seventy six. And 186 00:12:58.519 --> 00:13:02.039 unfortunately for me in the Air Force, I was shot 187 00:13:02.120 --> 00:13:05.200 on the twenty third, five days before I was to 188 00:13:05.320 --> 00:13:07.480 report to basic training. 189 00:13:08.879 --> 00:13:09.279 Mm hmm. 190 00:13:12.159 --> 00:13:15.639 So as far as the night, the night of the 191 00:13:15.639 --> 00:13:19.039 the the event, I was just hanging out with my friends. 192 00:13:19.120 --> 00:13:21.559 We went to a party and it wasn't really that good. 193 00:13:21.639 --> 00:13:25.039 So we went back to the bar Pex bar and 194 00:13:25.080 --> 00:13:28.039 grill that we hung out at and ran into Rosemary, 195 00:13:28.440 --> 00:13:32.559 who had known from from college. We had you know, 196 00:13:32.600 --> 00:13:35.200 we we've gone out on a few dates but we 197 00:13:35.240 --> 00:13:38.759 certainly weren't dating. But uh, yeah, we you know, we 198 00:13:38.840 --> 00:13:40.480 hung out for a little bit at the bar, had 199 00:13:40.519 --> 00:13:46.240 a few drinks, and then we decided to leave in 200 00:13:45.720 --> 00:13:52.080 h in her Volkswagen, and you know, we you know, 201 00:13:52.120 --> 00:13:54.879 we drove around the neighborhood. It was my neighborhood, not hers, 202 00:13:55.559 --> 00:14:01.559 and with no particular place in mind. Unlike some of 203 00:14:01.600 --> 00:14:04.879 the reports that you might have heard, this was not 204 00:14:05.000 --> 00:14:07.639 a you know, a lover's lane type thing. It was 205 00:14:07.840 --> 00:14:10.399 it actually four of my friends lived on that block. 206 00:14:11.080 --> 00:14:14.039 It you know, it just we just wound up there 207 00:14:15.080 --> 00:14:17.320 and we were there for maybe I don't know, three 208 00:14:17.360 --> 00:14:21.080 four or five minutes, and the next thing, I know, 209 00:14:21.200 --> 00:14:23.759 the all the all the class in the car exploded, 210 00:14:23.879 --> 00:14:27.919 and uh and I knew we were in trouble. And 211 00:14:28.080 --> 00:14:31.720 so it's a very surrealistic feeling because I did not 212 00:14:31.919 --> 00:14:34.240 know that I was shot, but I knew we were 213 00:14:34.240 --> 00:14:38.440 in trouble. And you know, I yelled at Rosemary to 214 00:14:38.480 --> 00:14:43.080 start the car up, and and she did and and 215 00:14:43.159 --> 00:14:46.960 I passed out for ten fifteen seconds and she was 216 00:14:47.720 --> 00:14:49.679 when I when I came to, she was in a 217 00:14:49.759 --> 00:14:52.399 tizzy because she had no idea where she was. So 218 00:14:52.480 --> 00:14:57.120 I directed her back to the bar and got out 219 00:14:57.159 --> 00:15:01.440 of the car, walked in and uh uh, this is 220 00:15:01.480 --> 00:15:03.639 all this is all crazy, because you know, I have 221 00:15:03.919 --> 00:15:06.399 I have a bull wounded in the back of my head. 222 00:15:06.480 --> 00:15:09.240 I have no idea how I possibly could have gotten 223 00:15:09.240 --> 00:15:11.559 out of the car and walked into the bar, but 224 00:15:12.000 --> 00:15:16.679 I did. And uh yeah, And when I walked in, 225 00:15:16.080 --> 00:15:19.360 the guy at the door said, you know, look good, 226 00:15:19.360 --> 00:15:21.240 and I said, I don't feel good. I think the 227 00:15:21.320 --> 00:15:25.600 car exploded. And with that my head went down and 228 00:15:25.639 --> 00:15:28.600 my warm hair was holding all this blood and I 229 00:15:28.840 --> 00:15:31.320 you know, at the time, I just had blood on 230 00:15:31.360 --> 00:15:37.679 my arms and from the class shorts. And when everyone 231 00:15:37.720 --> 00:15:40.360 in the bar saw that, and it's like, well, you know, 232 00:15:40.399 --> 00:15:42.080 we got to get him to the hospital. So we 233 00:15:42.639 --> 00:15:46.000 a friend of mine drove me to a Flushing, Flushing 234 00:15:46.039 --> 00:15:50.039 hospital and they took care of me there in the 235 00:15:50.519 --> 00:15:53.200 emergency room. 236 00:15:53.879 --> 00:15:57.399 You talk about that we didn't mention is that for 237 00:15:57.480 --> 00:16:00.000 some reason you were paranoid. And but you know, Jesus said, 238 00:16:00.000 --> 00:16:02.799 seventy six, you threw this bag of weed out the window. 239 00:16:03.480 --> 00:16:07.039 And this will be important a little bit later. Yes, yeah, 240 00:16:07.039 --> 00:16:09.320 it'll be important later when you when you get too 241 00:16:09.360 --> 00:16:15.399 honest for your own good. So now you're you're you're. 242 00:16:15.480 --> 00:16:17.879 Now you're at the hospital here, put you on a gurney, 243 00:16:17.960 --> 00:16:22.600 taking an examiner, so they realize that the extent of 244 00:16:22.600 --> 00:16:25.440 your injury you still don't know. But you say too 245 00:16:25.840 --> 00:16:28.679 that you never heard a gunshot. You just realize the 246 00:16:29.159 --> 00:16:31.960 glass exploded, so you never really heard it. You never 247 00:16:32.039 --> 00:16:36.159 heard a gunshot previous to that. This Marlon Hopkins is 248 00:16:36.159 --> 00:16:41.039 a homicide detective from NYPD. He comes to investigate, but 249 00:16:41.080 --> 00:16:43.559 then when they find out you're not dead, he takes 250 00:16:43.559 --> 00:16:47.840 off apparently. And and because the doctors say you're going 251 00:16:47.879 --> 00:16:50.440 to be stabilizing, you're going to make it through. So 252 00:16:51.480 --> 00:16:55.759 now what happens in terms of the police investigating this. 253 00:16:55.879 --> 00:16:59.200 You talked about when I'm a little while ago about 254 00:16:59.360 --> 00:17:01.200 how they thought it was a drug deal gone bad. 255 00:17:01.320 --> 00:17:03.840 So now we at least we know the audience knows 256 00:17:03.840 --> 00:17:07.599 that you threw this bag of weed out. But yes, 257 00:17:07.799 --> 00:17:09.759 why on earth would they think this is a drug 258 00:17:09.799 --> 00:17:13.599 deal gone bad? Where do they get that idea? 259 00:17:13.920 --> 00:17:21.160 Well, they got him from me. Unfortunately, the next day 260 00:17:21.279 --> 00:17:26.880 or actually later in the morning, Detective Keenan, Rosemary's dad 261 00:17:27.039 --> 00:17:32.559 and Detective Blues, his partner, came to my room and said, 262 00:17:32.640 --> 00:17:34.720 you know what happened. I said, I don't know. And 263 00:17:34.759 --> 00:17:37.920 he said where did it happen. I said one hundred 264 00:17:37.960 --> 00:17:45.839 and sixtieth Street and thirty third Avenue. So they they left, 265 00:17:46.000 --> 00:17:49.000 and they came back about an hour later and threatened 266 00:17:49.000 --> 00:17:50.880 to arrest me if I didn't tell him the truth. 267 00:17:50.920 --> 00:17:53.000 And I'm like, what are you talking about? And he said, well, 268 00:17:53.319 --> 00:17:56.759 we went from one sixtieth Street to one seventy second 269 00:17:56.799 --> 00:18:00.400 Street and we didn't find any you know, any glass 270 00:18:00.519 --> 00:18:06.640 or anything. So when they said that, it dawned to me. 271 00:18:06.720 --> 00:18:09.319 I said, oh, it was one hundred and fifty ninth Street, 272 00:18:09.400 --> 00:18:13.200 not one hundred and six sixtieth Street. And they looked 273 00:18:13.240 --> 00:18:15.720 at each other and because basically, you know, they went 274 00:18:15.759 --> 00:18:18.160 twelve blocks in one direction, didn't think to go one 275 00:18:18.240 --> 00:18:23.319 block the other direction. And as a parting shot, because 276 00:18:23.440 --> 00:18:26.440 that's my nature, I said, and by the way, I 277 00:18:26.480 --> 00:18:30.119 threw a bag of weed out so you might find that, so, which, 278 00:18:30.559 --> 00:18:34.039 like I said later on, that probably was the smartest 279 00:18:34.079 --> 00:18:37.440 thing to say. But that's how they found out about 280 00:18:37.440 --> 00:18:39.960 the weed. And by the way, they never found the weed. 281 00:18:41.880 --> 00:18:48.000 Someone did, Yeah, somebody did. Yests now, now, Detective Keenan 282 00:18:48.319 --> 00:18:51.839 now you you say that you already knew him, you 283 00:18:51.960 --> 00:18:54.359 recognized him, you knew who he was. So he wasn't 284 00:18:54.359 --> 00:18:58.079 too happy that his ardor was involved in this situation, 285 00:18:58.279 --> 00:19:02.319 especially not knowing from where it came from. So he 286 00:19:02.480 --> 00:19:04.960 assumed that it had some kind of drug relation or 287 00:19:05.000 --> 00:19:08.079 he was just looking at you. So how do they 288 00:19:08.160 --> 00:19:12.960 proceed with this investigation in terms and your participation and 289 00:19:14.559 --> 00:19:20.279 what you find out about this supposed forty four caliber. 290 00:19:19.920 --> 00:19:26.240 Killer as well? You know, basically there is one more meeting. 291 00:19:27.200 --> 00:19:30.200 When I'm I was in the hospital for three weeks, 292 00:19:31.720 --> 00:19:35.240 and they came back to my mom's house where I 293 00:19:35.319 --> 00:19:38.440 was living, and handed me a list of I don't know, 294 00:19:38.480 --> 00:19:41.319 maybe seventy five one hundred names, and it was basically 295 00:19:41.359 --> 00:19:44.720 a list of people who had been arrested in my neighborhood. 296 00:19:45.920 --> 00:19:49.319 And I did recognize a lot of the names. Most 297 00:19:49.359 --> 00:19:54.359 of them were like ridiculous, you know, stolen bike, public intoxication, 298 00:19:54.880 --> 00:20:00.839 a vagaweed, you know, nothing major. And I couldn't believe 299 00:20:00.880 --> 00:20:04.160 that somebody I knew would shoot me. I just didn't 300 00:20:04.359 --> 00:20:05.920 we First of all, I didn't live in that kind 301 00:20:05.960 --> 00:20:10.359 of neighborhood. It was basically an upper middle class neighborhood 302 00:20:11.480 --> 00:20:16.079 that didn't really have any violence, you know, so I 303 00:20:16.160 --> 00:20:19.960 I said, I don't think it's anyone on here. And 304 00:20:20.000 --> 00:20:21.759 of course there was names and there I had no 305 00:20:21.839 --> 00:20:26.680 idea who they were. And that I mean that that 306 00:20:26.799 --> 00:20:29.759 was pretty much the end of that story. And to 307 00:20:29.799 --> 00:20:33.519 add on to that, that was pretty much the That 308 00:20:33.599 --> 00:20:37.720 was pretty much the blessed interaction I had personally with 309 00:20:37.960 --> 00:20:44.880 the NYPD in this case, which you know, it didn't 310 00:20:44.920 --> 00:20:47.319 really bother me back then, but it you know, in 311 00:20:47.400 --> 00:20:52.960 the ensuing years, it kind of puzzled me because when 312 00:20:52.960 --> 00:20:58.039 they arrested Barker Wood, for example, uh, my sister got 313 00:20:58.079 --> 00:21:03.559 a phone call from a reporter saying that they arrested 314 00:21:03.559 --> 00:21:05.680 the son of Sam and it's this guy called David 315 00:21:05.720 --> 00:21:09.680 Berkowitz and she's you know, and my sister didn't live, 316 00:21:09.799 --> 00:21:12.680 you know, she had her own apartment, so she called 317 00:21:13.000 --> 00:21:15.799 my mom's house at two in the morning. And I, 318 00:21:16.039 --> 00:21:18.319 you know, in retrospect, I think it's kind of strange 319 00:21:18.359 --> 00:21:22.559 that I didn't get an official call from somebody in 320 00:21:22.559 --> 00:21:27.000 the police department saying, you know, rest easy, we caught 321 00:21:27.000 --> 00:21:29.119 the guy that you know, we caught the guy to shatcha. 322 00:21:31.519 --> 00:21:37.519 Now you survived but this it wasn't without some complications. Here, Uh, 323 00:21:37.920 --> 00:21:41.759 just tell us about what they had to do two 324 00:21:42.880 --> 00:21:46.720 before you were released from the hospital and we're out 325 00:21:46.720 --> 00:21:49.039 of danger, per se. 326 00:21:49.839 --> 00:21:53.200 Sure, well they yeah, it was uh you know, of 327 00:21:53.240 --> 00:21:57.759 course it's seventy six, so the you know, medicine is 328 00:21:57.759 --> 00:22:00.519 a little bit better today than it was then. But 329 00:22:01.400 --> 00:22:03.880 you know, uh, you know, with a head injury, there 330 00:22:03.960 --> 00:22:07.400 was there was no painkillers to be had. It was 331 00:22:07.799 --> 00:22:12.839 tiling oil, which really believed me. It really didn't help, 332 00:22:14.279 --> 00:22:16.319 you know, did. I developed like a little bit of 333 00:22:16.319 --> 00:22:18.720 a nervous text shaking my you know, my leg up 334 00:22:18.759 --> 00:22:22.640 and down, and I was in I was in pretty 335 00:22:22.640 --> 00:22:26.160 bad pain for I'd say about you know, a week, 336 00:22:26.279 --> 00:22:31.400 five days, seven days, and then they they had to 337 00:22:31.440 --> 00:22:35.559 come in about a week into my hospital's stay. They 338 00:22:36.079 --> 00:22:38.599 the nurse and the doctor would come in like every 339 00:22:38.680 --> 00:22:43.160 other day with this huge needle and draw a fluid 340 00:22:43.720 --> 00:22:46.440 from the back of my skull that was building up 341 00:22:47.200 --> 00:22:50.799 around my brain. And that that was almost as painful 342 00:22:50.839 --> 00:22:56.000 as being shot, I could tell you that. And uh yeah, 343 00:22:56.079 --> 00:22:58.400 so you know I wound up staying in the hospital 344 00:22:58.440 --> 00:23:02.960 for three three weeks and then I was released with 345 00:23:03.039 --> 00:23:06.799 the instructions that I have to stay in the house. 346 00:23:06.839 --> 00:23:10.880 I can't go out because there's only a thin piece 347 00:23:10.920 --> 00:23:19.079 of skin protecting my brain because the bullet put a 348 00:23:19.119 --> 00:23:21.680 hole about a size fifty cent piece in the back 349 00:23:21.720 --> 00:23:25.519 of my head. And then they told me in January, 350 00:23:25.680 --> 00:23:30.799 actually January twentieth, once a swelling had gone down, they 351 00:23:30.799 --> 00:23:34.720 would insert a plate to cover the hole that the 352 00:23:34.759 --> 00:23:40.359 bullet made. So that was, yeah, that was a long 353 00:23:40.400 --> 00:23:43.400 three months. 354 00:23:44.160 --> 00:23:48.640 Now you talk about then you write about July twenty ninth, 355 00:23:48.839 --> 00:23:51.559 the attack before yours, because you guys were second, You 356 00:23:51.599 --> 00:23:54.440 and Rosemary were second. But this is July twenty ninth, 357 00:23:54.519 --> 00:23:57.599 nineteen seventy six. Donal Lorie, she's eighteen years old, their 358 00:23:57.640 --> 00:24:02.519 friend Jody Valenti, and they're at a disco and so 359 00:24:02.640 --> 00:24:04.680 a man approaches them. He pulls out a gun from 360 00:24:04.720 --> 00:24:09.279 a bag, approaches down and shoots donn and she's instantly dead, 361 00:24:09.759 --> 00:24:13.000 and Valenti is shot in a thigh and she survives. 362 00:24:13.920 --> 00:24:18.400 What is the description of that perpetrator at that time, 363 00:24:18.559 --> 00:24:20.640 July twenty ninth, nineteen seventy six. 364 00:24:22.559 --> 00:24:28.400 Well, the description of a shooter pretty much, as it 365 00:24:28.440 --> 00:24:33.920 turned out, pretty much described David Barkowitz. They did have 366 00:24:33.960 --> 00:24:41.200 a suspect, Donna's ex boyfriend who just I know this 367 00:24:41.279 --> 00:24:44.480 is bizarre, but he just happened to own a forty 368 00:24:44.519 --> 00:24:48.799 four caliper gun and they had broken up. Yeah, and 369 00:24:48.839 --> 00:24:51.240 they had broken up. I'm not sure if it's a 370 00:24:51.240 --> 00:24:53.359 few weeks or a few months, but they had broken 371 00:24:53.480 --> 00:24:58.000 up and he was prime suspect. And he kind of 372 00:24:58.559 --> 00:25:01.039 is very strange. He he came in and out of 373 00:25:01.039 --> 00:25:03.279 the news very quick. He never heard of him again. 374 00:25:05.200 --> 00:25:07.240 You know, they exonerated him. I guess he had an 375 00:25:07.240 --> 00:25:13.440 albi whatever. But Uh, I always wondered, you know, later 376 00:25:13.519 --> 00:25:17.519 on when they tied shootings together to a forty four, 377 00:25:18.359 --> 00:25:22.759 what didn't go back to uh to her ex boyfriend 378 00:25:22.799 --> 00:25:27.359 to question him again, And to be honest, they might have, 379 00:25:27.640 --> 00:25:29.359 but I'm not I'm not aware of it. 380 00:25:30.279 --> 00:25:30.640 Mm hmm. 381 00:25:31.640 --> 00:25:35.759 Yeah. And you know there was there was some other uh, 382 00:25:36.599 --> 00:25:41.680 you know, the description of from uh from Jody, Uh, 383 00:25:41.960 --> 00:25:46.839 like I said, pretty much matched David Barkowitz. And of course, uh, 384 00:25:47.200 --> 00:25:50.640 you know, years later he admitted that is one of 385 00:25:50.680 --> 00:25:52.319 the shootings that he that he did. 386 00:25:54.680 --> 00:25:57.440 Were there you were the second I just mentioned. You 387 00:25:57.440 --> 00:26:00.599 were the second group of victims. You and Rosemary where 388 00:26:00.599 --> 00:26:05.000 their witnesses to your attack, and what was that notion of. 389 00:26:06.440 --> 00:26:10.200 Yeah, there's it's kind of it's kind of funny that I, 390 00:26:10.480 --> 00:26:13.960 you know, of all the victims that survived, I'm the 391 00:26:14.000 --> 00:26:21.000 only one that has, you know, pursued this case. And 392 00:26:21.240 --> 00:26:25.160 there's the least amount of information on my case. So 393 00:26:25.440 --> 00:26:27.279 now there was no there was you know, it was 394 00:26:28.000 --> 00:26:31.720 it was no no eye witnesses. It was two o'clock 395 00:26:31.720 --> 00:26:35.759 in the morning in a very residential neighborhood. I'm sure 396 00:26:36.000 --> 00:26:38.640 I don't know for a fact, but I'm sure somebody 397 00:26:38.759 --> 00:26:43.160 was woken up by gunshot wounds. But I said, we, uh, 398 00:26:43.599 --> 00:26:46.200 Rosemary pulled the car away fast. I think by the 399 00:26:46.240 --> 00:26:48.079 time someone got out of bed and went to the 400 00:26:48.119 --> 00:26:53.960 window or you know, the Volkswagen, Rosemary'svolkswagen was probably gone already. 401 00:26:56.519 --> 00:27:00.160