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Speaker 1: When Ben Critalism put he down cooks amounts of film

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on his beloved Cougar football team. He's talking Cougar sports

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and he's doing it right here on one O three

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nine at ninety eight three ESPN The Fan, Welcome.

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Speaker 2: Back Cougar Sports. One of three nine, ninety eight point

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three ESPN The Fan.

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Speaker 3: I bet Critinal broadcasting from the South Swig location hop

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skipping a jumping away from Lavelle Edwards Stateium. It's a

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beautiful afternoon here in Provo, Utah. Big Newton kickoff was

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down in Provo earlier, this this beautiful day, and now

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we are getting your prep getting you ready for this

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rivalry game, the Holy War, the best rivalry game in

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the country. And clear skies, Snowcap Mountains, the stretch. Why

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on the Wassat front. It's a glorious state to be

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a Cougar Royal Army brands and attendance. Here, get some

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day spiker to buy fans four fans. We're gonna have

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pulled pork sandwiches from Rectech here. Also you can get

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some Swig drinks, get caffeinated before this rivalry game.

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Speaker 2: It's gonna be glorious. It's gonna be tremendous.

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Speaker 3: It's gonna be the best rivalry game known to man

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this year. It's one of the biggest because number one,

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this is only the fourth time in bau Utah history

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that both teams have been ranked. Okay, this particular rivalry

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game has conference championship implications, right, This could be a

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playing game for Arlington, a playing game to play Texas

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Tech once again to see who goes maybe to the

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college football playoff. So if you want two teams in

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the college football player from the Big twelve, you know,

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hopefully it's either.

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Speaker 2: BYU or I guess Utah.

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Speaker 3: If you're a member of this awesome state, this could

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be one of those playing games. So we're gonna break

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it all down here on your Utah ESPN Radio network.

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And we have a insider within the Big Twelve that

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has joined us. He was down at Fat Daddy's Beazeria.

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I think he was here a part of Big Newton

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kickoff as well. Let's welcome in locked on Big twelve's

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very own Drake Toll, the six foot four, two hundred

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and five.

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Speaker 2: How are you, buddy?

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Speaker 4: Oh my gosh, Ben, this this is my favorite place

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to consume college football whether it's Salt Lake or Provo,

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just this state in general. It's my favorite place to

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consume college football. And I tell people, what's so different.

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I've been a Tuscaloosa on a Saturday night. I've seen

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what Baton Rouge looks like on a Saturday night, and

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and it's.

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Speaker 5: Different because those folks funny enough. Can I tell you

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a little story, love story monologue on your show here?

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Speaker 2: I love monologues.

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Speaker 4: I've been hanging out a lot recently with Gary Patterson,

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the old TCU coach, and you know, Baylor Bear and

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a TCU coach walking to a bar and what happens?

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You tell some some war stories and so Ge pat

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was giving me all these these you know, we go

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to love It Texas, and he said, they're all so drunk,

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and they'd yell stuff, they'd throw the stuff at you.

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He said, it never hurt my feelings because they were

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they were hammered. They didn't know what they were saying,

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he said. But then I'd come to Provo, Utah. He said,

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every single thing those people said they meant.

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Speaker 5: They were sobersy.

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Speaker 4: Yes, he said, the scar various place we played, the

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place where every time I got hit with a battery.

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I thought, Wow, they mean it, he said, and I

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took that personally.

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Speaker 5: It makes it so different here.

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Speaker 4: It's so cool that these you know, sixty plus sixty

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five thousand plus on hand will be a stone cold

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sober but just as vicious as you'd find it anywhere

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in the Yeah.

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Speaker 3: So KBN Cobnoy and Jamal woomb is where the two

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celebrity pickers and Jamal made a point to say, this

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is not just traditional hype, this is sober hype. Yeah so,

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like when they are louder and prouder and more engaged

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than any other fan base and look Big newon kickoff

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producers said it like they've never had a fan base.

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Speaker 2: This aggregated, this conglomerting, this hype. This is something that

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has never been had in the eight years of Big

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New Cake.

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Speaker 5: You can't if you have Indiana and Oregon, you don't

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have fifty to fifty split.

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Speaker 4: If you have even Michigan Ohio State, it's not fifty

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to fifty. They're going to populate with their home fan

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base and by and Lard's the Ohio State fans don't

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want to be involved.

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Speaker 5: In ann arbor in noon kick off.

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Speaker 4: They don't want to give the crowd a big pop

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and a good look. Utah fans said, the hell with that?

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What's showing up? And I think it's what I said

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it earlier. This is the funniest thing I've heard all day,

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the Utah fans, and I guess it shouldn't be funny,

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but I giggled. The Utah fans gave a little f

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B y uj. They love that chant, don't they.

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Speaker 5: They get it f B y u.

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Speaker 2: I'm fine, And by the way, I I love f

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B y u.

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Speaker 3: A f B y u, f b y u f

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s in the state or it's right, keep it then,

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keep the religions, keep it temporal, keep it, you know,

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get it out of the faith.

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Speaker 4: We're on national television and they're doing the f B

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yu thing and the BYU fans.

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Speaker 5: Like, oh yeah, you want one better. Utah sucks Utah.

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It's just the perfect you know.

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Speaker 4: It's just beautiful representation of both these fan bases, Utah.

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Speaker 5: And b y U.

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Speaker 3: So there's enmity obviously that is very much tangible.

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Speaker 2: There's a lot of enmity here.

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Speaker 3: Part of the enmity stems from the fact that Kyle

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Whittingham once upon a time turned down he's alma mater

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to coach up on the Hill. But it started before then,

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obviously in the nineteen like from seventy two to nineteen ninety,

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this rivalry game was dominated by Lavelle Edwards. Prior to that,

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you know, BYU really wasn't invested in sports basketball. They

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were more of a basketball There's a reason why basketball

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was probably more prominent because at every church building there's

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a basketball court, so they were balling. Football didn't really

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become to pass in provo until Lavell took over and revamped, remodeled.

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Speaker 2: Reshaped what we were.

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Speaker 3: As a passing offense rather than a single team t

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wing type of offense. Anyway, So seventy two to ninety

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BYU dominates, and then Ronnie Mack comes into power up

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at the U and he kind of replicates somewhat of

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what Lavelle was doing with the polynes and pipeline and

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stealing recruits anyone that got shunned by BYU that was LDS,

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polonies and whatever.

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Speaker 2: He would recruit him.

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Speaker 3: And then he had also a nice fair share of

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like Cali and Texas recruits that would come in and

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buoy them up and from nineteen ninety to about I

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don't know, twenty ten, before Utah made the jump to the.

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Speaker 2: Back twelve, it was fifty to fifty. Yeah, wins and losses.

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Speaker 3: Kyle Whittingham did some great things in taking over in

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two thousand and five, and then the PAC twelve came knocking.

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Speaker 2: Our one research institution.

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Speaker 3: You know, all these things kind of tapping into the

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demographic here, and they took off.

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Speaker 2: Utah took off. And I guess you.

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Speaker 3: Know, with all this enmity, there is a religious element

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in all of this too, even though you know we

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want to keep religion out of it, but we called

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the Holy War for a reason. Now you've experienced this

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for a few years now, how would you describe the rivalry,

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the back and forth, the enmity, the how would you

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describe kind of like what is empowering these fan bases.

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Speaker 2: To really collide and hate each other to a degree.

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Speaker 4: It's the most unique rivalry in all of college football,

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and I feel comfortable saying that, and the biggest piece

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it can be overstated, and I do think from an

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outsider's perspective, this part of the rivalry becomes so oversaturated.

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Even folks who are in the rivalry. Don't want it

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to be brought up as the paramount peace. But it's religion,

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is it is.

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Speaker 3: Faith, it is the idea, it's church state right and

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at the same.

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Speaker 5: Time, and here's what makes it even more complex.

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Speaker 4: There are seven thousand ish Utah students who are members

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of the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter day Saints.

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So from there you have school who represents state, school

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who represents church going at it. But in the midst

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of this Utah fan base you have kids look around

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going but that's the flagship university of my faith, and

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my faith goes deeper than my football affiliation at least

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three hundred and sixty four days out of the year, right,

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this is the one day that's so that's what's what's

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so complex about this. When Alabama plays Auburn, it's not

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about the Southern Baptist Methodists.

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Speaker 5: It's about Alabama versus Auburn.

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Speaker 4: This is a matchup where you are looking at BYU

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who who who represents again the flash of university of

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one of the world's fastest growing faiths, and Utah that

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for at least one Saturday, by and large, says we

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are to be the antithesis of the buttoned up church

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going vibe that you're gonna get from the people in blue.

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But at the same time, so much of that fan

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base represents Church of Jesus Christ for Laturday Saints.

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Speaker 5: So what's what's wild to me?

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Speaker 4: And I love the stories of you know, Oregon player

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at church plays the BYU fight song the Sunday after

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the Holy War, or you know, half this church they're

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all Utah fans. The other half of the by My

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cousin went to Byu, my mom went to Utah. Yeah,

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that's what's beautiful about this rival where you just don't

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have the depth of a faith or a religion, a

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belief system that trickles into Texas versus Oklahoma.

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Speaker 3: All the quotes that that have come out of this rivalry,

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whether it's Lenny.

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Speaker 2: Gomes, I don't know if you saw this one.

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Speaker 3: He's like, I'm gonna be making sixty thousand a year.

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This was a post game quote, sixty thousand year in

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those utes are gonna be pumping my gas. You know

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there's that there's like this like, you know, holier than that,

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but also smarter than now. From b Yu to Utah.

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Then you have Max Hall say, I hate them, they're classless.

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Speaker 2: They threw in my family. You have Kyle Whittingham siding like, well,

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my family was in a.

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Speaker 3: Was assaulted by BYU fans. You have Utah fans threatening

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to let off set off a nuclear.

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Speaker 2: Reactor if they lose.

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Speaker 3: You have this year some BYU crazy fan threatening to

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kill people if they come to Lavelle.

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Speaker 4: I mean, it's insanelved every now and.

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Speaker 3: Then Mark Carlin running onto the field to play and

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then taking to the.

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Speaker 4: Postic wealth player for Utah on the field last season,

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Mark Harlo.

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Speaker 3: It's you can't even like begin to describe, like what

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is going on internally in the minds and the hearts

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of these people.

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Speaker 4: I don't want to dilute. I don't want to dilute

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the Auburn Alabama killing the trees thing.

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Speaker 2: Oh that's true. That's a been pretty big, But.

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Speaker 5: That happens every year here.

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Speaker 4: There's some version of Paul I killed the trees. There's

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some version of that in the Holy War every single season.

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And that's I don't know if it's beautiful or terrible,

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but it's what we love about college football.

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Speaker 5: It's what the Big twelve needs more up.

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Speaker 4: I set a game day today and a big new kickoff,

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and you know, I talked to Santiago, I talked to Koloney,

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I talked to RG. Three of these guys that have

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become really that in my last three years being involved

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and covering BYU, have just gotten to know these personalities

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human beings and seeing the passion they have for BYU

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and the one day out of the year they really

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had this, this this fervor against Utah. I don't understand

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why this matchup wasn't played for a group for a

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number of years.

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Speaker 5: For a group of years, you know why. I do

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know why. Yeah, but it makes still makes no sense.

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Speaker 4: This deserves he played every weekend in college football if

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they could.

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Speaker 5: This is what we love about the sport.

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Speaker 4: And it may I go back to and not to

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say that things aren't a little messed up, because they

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surely are in the game right now with the players

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having no salary cap and and you know, you got

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guys right now who are probably that BYU locker room

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who got a DM from a running coach in California

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who said, hey, two point two if you want to

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go to USC next year. That running coach is not

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affiliated with the program, so can't be fined. That's happening

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and it's bad. But to anyone who says kywoiche football.

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Speaker 5: Is dying or dead or being killed, show up at

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Provo tonight. Yeah, I'll prove you wrong.

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Speaker 3: What's interesting about like why it wasn't played just to

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kind of stem off the enmity and the hate and

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the vitriol those things.

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Speaker 2: There came a time when like Utah saw it as like.

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Speaker 3: Hey, we're already dominating here, we have Pack twelve affilia.

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Speaker 2: There's no need for us to play this anymore.

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Speaker 5: We need to take us.

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Speaker 2: They hurt them, it could potentially hurt them.

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Speaker 3: I asked Kylwoiteham in twenty fifteen before the rival game,

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said like what competitive advantage does BYU still have over Utah?

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If any because I had made the statementor there's no

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reason for Utah ever to lose this game.

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Speaker 2: Why they don't have an honor code?

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Speaker 3: They have Pack twelve affiliation and their academic standards for

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their student athletes are much lower than the academic standards

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that at BAU.

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Speaker 2: And they had all the resources.

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Speaker 3: To twenty thirty forty million within their organizational design that

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they could invest that Bua, you didn't have There's no

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reason for Utah to ever lose this game. And he said, look, Ben,

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the only competitive advantage that Vo he still has over us,

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says every once in a while, there's a legacy kid

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that will just go to BYU, the Chase Roberts, right,

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their dad played at BUYU.

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Speaker 2: Now we're on equal footing.

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Speaker 3: Oh yeah, now you're seeing a change though, like, oh crap,

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and Kyle is over here like thinking to himself, and

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I believe it. I believe his legacy was built on

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the domination of the rivalry game, not due to his

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post season success or double digit wins. Give me your thousands,

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what what's his legacy? More so built off of domination

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the rivalry or double digit win seasons, in bowl victories,

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in high level games.

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Speaker 5: They've been to the Rose Bowl.

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Speaker 4: They haven't won a Rose Bowl, right, and they've won

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the Pack Twall championship. The pack trol doesn't exist anymore,

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and I don't want to dilute those are massive.

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Speaker 2: PAC twelve does not exist anymore.

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Speaker 3: You dominated a conference de fact no longer exists.

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Speaker 4: So I don't and again I don't want to dilute

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those entirely. But Utah could go one and eleven every year,

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b while you could too. And as long as you

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win that rivalry game, the Holy War Game, there's still

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some hope that coach isn't being fired. You won the

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one game that we needed you to win. We've got

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the argument is taken care of. We can go to

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church every Sunday and say, well, we beat you. And

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Kyle Whittingham has not done that the last two times

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these teams have played. And I think last year, I

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really do believe I said it earlier and I'm gonna

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stand by it. Kyle Whittingham is done after this season.

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If Utah wins today sands pretty much any result the

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rest of the way Kyle Whittingham.

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Speaker 5: Has done this season.

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Speaker 4: He is retiring if Utah beats BYU because this is

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the one this is the game that he has not

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been able to win now two straight years.

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Speaker 5: And somebody tweeted, I wish I could I attribute this.

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Speaker 4: They said, the importance of this game is so much

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on Utah because if they lose for a third year

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and Wittingham stays, Morgan Scally is gone, you've lost three

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in a row. Kyle Whittingham's lost his fastball. You're not

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going to Arlington. This could become a spiral year this year,

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a spiral year under Winningham next year. The importance is

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for Utah to win this game. B why you could

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lose and you want to hear can I tell you

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a secret? They'd be at the exact same spot as

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Utah six and six. This game is so much more

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important to the Utes because of what it means for

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Kyle Whittingham's legacy.

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Speaker 3: Twenty two years as a head coach of the University

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of Utah, and he's got seven double digit win seasons

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where you know he essentially is going to a good

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bowl game, right Obviously two the most recent in the

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Rolls Bowl, in which.

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Speaker 2: They just couldn't get over the hump. They couldn't win

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those games.

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Speaker 3: And look BYU in the BCS era, they weren't able

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to get to a BCS Bowl. They couldn't bust the

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BCS Bowl system. Utah did do that in two thousand

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and eight, and they did it in two thousand and

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four as well. So like there's a legacy in two

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thousand and eight, like seven, three of those double digit

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win seasons came in the Mountain West.

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Speaker 2: The way under Kyle winning Him? Would you agree or disagree?

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Speaker 5: Though?

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Speaker 2: And I think you would let you. You elaborated on

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this enough.

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Speaker 3: But is his legacy built more so off with those

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seven double digit win seasons in Bowl games in top

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twenty five finishes or is it built more so off

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of the domination of the robbery?

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Speaker 2: Which one? Is it more so?

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Speaker 5: You can answer your question with a question.

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Speaker 4: Sure, if Kyle winning Him had gone twenty two seasons,

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seven double digit win seasons, but he was zero to

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eighteen against BYU, what would Utah fans think about.

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Speaker 2: Kyle hund percent? They probably had wanted him fire.

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Speaker 5: Run him out of town, run him out of town,

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get him out of here.

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Speaker 4: Absolutely, that's what this rivalry means to the to BYU fans,

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to Utah fans into who the head coach is at

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these two universalis.

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Speaker 3: I agree with you, Drake told, ladies and gentlemen, Drake,

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give me a score raadi channati. See this game playing

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out tonight under the lights of Lavelle.

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Speaker 4: Utah gets up ten to nothing, fast starting team B

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What use a slow starting team? I think Utah gets

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up ten nothing. They want to prove something tonight. That

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first script from winning Ham is gonna be the best

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of his career. It has to be from there. A

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Rod's not going to freak out. I've been very impressed

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last few weeks. Off Let's keep running the football even

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down DOUBLET.

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Speaker 3: Saying something because you've been anti's been so anti you

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are anti Roderick, And this year it's.

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Speaker 4: Slowly but steadily I'm coming around. I'm starting to believe

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to shout out to a Roddams a great guy, great family.

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Speaker 2: It helps.

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Speaker 3: It helps a good OC to have a really good

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run game coordinator and a balance out. And I don't

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think I think after Grimes left, yep, you thought there

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was a little bit of a drop off in his

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run game coordinator, because you know, we all have tendencies.

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Speaker 2: We all buy your seas. You know, we all like

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to do certain things and works right.

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Speaker 5: Your way works always, obviously, but you need balance.

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Speaker 4: Utah gets ahead ten nothing, BYU doesn't freak out. They

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run the football well, even if they're down thirteen ten

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at halftime or down thirteen six thirteen seven at half time.

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I think BYU rallies to win it because of how

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good they are in the fourth quarter. We've seen Utah

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wear down in fourth quarters. I think think they did

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against Texas Tech. Final score BYU twenty three Utah nineteen.

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It's another classic in the Holy War, and the Cougars

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come away victorious.

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Speaker 3: Yeah, I mean, shoot, I was looking at the there's

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thirty one games since nineteen ninety or so, and nineteen

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of those were one score victory. I think atten in

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the last twenty four if actually twenty two.

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Speaker 5: I believe it's incredible. You can't how do you? How

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do you build that? How you did that? Scan hard

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to do on purpose?

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Speaker 3: It's crazy, It's it is insane, no doubt about it.

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Drake Toll, Ladies and Gentlemenke sure you're following him on

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X for all of his hot takes. Locked on Big

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twelve Drake, she told he's also a part of the

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Savannah Bananas on the on the color commentary and play

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by play call.

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Speaker 5: No doubt.

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Speaker 4: Always fun to be in this little camper here too.

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I used the bathroom earlier. I mean I peede all

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in there until they told me the bathroom doesn't actually work.

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Speaker 5: So that's somebody else's problem.

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Speaker 3: Yeah, there's I won't I won't be cleaning it either,

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but I'm sure we'll find someone to clean it up.

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Speaker 2: Drake Tall. Ladies and gentlemen, we appreciate him.

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Speaker 3: Locked on Big twelve, we're live from the Swig just

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south of Lavelle Edwards Stadium. Royal Army Brand is here,

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Rectech is here. Come get a swig, Come get some

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Polled Port Sandwich is Shout out to y Soup Kyle

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his family football is better at level shirt.

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Speaker 2: I love that T shirt.

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Speaker 3: We'll go to break, don't go anywhere more to get

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to getting your bread, getting you ready for this holy war.

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This is Cougar Sports on one of three nine ninety

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point three year