Speaker 1: When Ben Critalism put he down cooks amounts of film
on his beloved Cougar football team. He's talking Cougar sports
and he's doing it right here on one O three
nine at ninety eight three ESPN The Fan, Welcome.
Speaker 2: Back Cougar Sports. One of three nine, ninety eight point
three ESPN The Fan.
Speaker 3: I bet Critinal broadcasting from the South Swig location hop
skipping a jumping away from Lavelle Edwards Stateium. It's a
beautiful afternoon here in Provo, Utah. Big Newton kickoff was
down in Provo earlier, this this beautiful day, and now
we are getting your prep getting you ready for this
rivalry game, the Holy War, the best rivalry game in
the country. And clear skies, Snowcap Mountains, the stretch. Why
on the Wassat front. It's a glorious state to be
a Cougar Royal Army brands and attendance. Here, get some
day spiker to buy fans four fans. We're gonna have
pulled pork sandwiches from Rectech here. Also you can get
some Swig drinks, get caffeinated before this rivalry game.
Speaker 2: It's gonna be glorious. It's gonna be tremendous.
Speaker 3: It's gonna be the best rivalry game known to man
this year. It's one of the biggest because number one,
this is only the fourth time in bau Utah history
that both teams have been ranked. Okay, this particular rivalry
game has conference championship implications, right, This could be a
playing game for Arlington, a playing game to play Texas
Tech once again to see who goes maybe to the
college football playoff. So if you want two teams in
the college football player from the Big twelve, you know,
hopefully it's either.
Speaker 2: BYU or I guess Utah.
Speaker 3: If you're a member of this awesome state, this could
be one of those playing games. So we're gonna break
it all down here on your Utah ESPN Radio network.
And we have a insider within the Big Twelve that
has joined us. He was down at Fat Daddy's Beazeria.
I think he was here a part of Big Newton
kickoff as well. Let's welcome in locked on Big twelve's
very own Drake Toll, the six foot four, two hundred
and five.
Speaker 2: How are you, buddy?
Speaker 4: Oh my gosh, Ben, this this is my favorite place
to consume college football whether it's Salt Lake or Provo,
just this state in general. It's my favorite place to
consume college football. And I tell people, what's so different.
I've been a Tuscaloosa on a Saturday night. I've seen
what Baton Rouge looks like on a Saturday night, and
and it's.
Speaker 5: Different because those folks funny enough. Can I tell you
a little story, love story monologue on your show here?
Speaker 2: I love monologues.
Speaker 4: I've been hanging out a lot recently with Gary Patterson,
the old TCU coach, and you know, Baylor Bear and
a TCU coach walking to a bar and what happens?
You tell some some war stories and so Ge pat
was giving me all these these you know, we go
to love It Texas, and he said, they're all so drunk,
and they'd yell stuff, they'd throw the stuff at you.
He said, it never hurt my feelings because they were
they were hammered. They didn't know what they were saying,
he said. But then I'd come to Provo, Utah. He said,
every single thing those people said they meant.
Speaker 5: They were sobersy.
Speaker 4: Yes, he said, the scar various place we played, the
place where every time I got hit with a battery.
I thought, Wow, they mean it, he said, and I
took that personally.
Speaker 5: It makes it so different here.
Speaker 4: It's so cool that these you know, sixty plus sixty
five thousand plus on hand will be a stone cold
sober but just as vicious as you'd find it anywhere
in the Yeah.
Speaker 3: So KBN Cobnoy and Jamal woomb is where the two
celebrity pickers and Jamal made a point to say, this
is not just traditional hype, this is sober hype. Yeah so,
like when they are louder and prouder and more engaged
than any other fan base and look Big newon kickoff
producers said it like they've never had a fan base.
Speaker 2: This aggregated, this conglomerting, this hype. This is something that
has never been had in the eight years of Big
New Cake.
Speaker 5: You can't if you have Indiana and Oregon, you don't
have fifty to fifty split.
Speaker 4: If you have even Michigan Ohio State, it's not fifty
to fifty. They're going to populate with their home fan
base and by and Lard's the Ohio State fans don't
want to be involved.
Speaker 5: In ann arbor in noon kick off.
Speaker 4: They don't want to give the crowd a big pop
and a good look. Utah fans said, the hell with that?
What's showing up? And I think it's what I said
it earlier. This is the funniest thing I've heard all day,
the Utah fans, and I guess it shouldn't be funny,
but I giggled. The Utah fans gave a little f
B y uj. They love that chant, don't they.
Speaker 5: They get it f B y u.
Speaker 2: I'm fine, And by the way, I I love f
B y u.
Speaker 3: A f B y u, f b y u f
s in the state or it's right, keep it then,
keep the religions, keep it temporal, keep it, you know,
get it out of the faith.
Speaker 4: We're on national television and they're doing the f B
yu thing and the BYU fans.
Speaker 5: Like, oh yeah, you want one better. Utah sucks Utah.
It's just the perfect you know.
Speaker 4: It's just beautiful representation of both these fan bases, Utah.
Speaker 5: And b y U.
Speaker 3: So there's enmity obviously that is very much tangible.
Speaker 2: There's a lot of enmity here.
Speaker 3: Part of the enmity stems from the fact that Kyle
Whittingham once upon a time turned down he's alma mater
to coach up on the Hill. But it started before then,
obviously in the nineteen like from seventy two to nineteen ninety,
this rivalry game was dominated by Lavelle Edwards. Prior to that,
you know, BYU really wasn't invested in sports basketball. They
were more of a basketball There's a reason why basketball
was probably more prominent because at every church building there's
a basketball court, so they were balling. Football didn't really
become to pass in provo until Lavell took over and revamped, remodeled.
Speaker 2: Reshaped what we were.
Speaker 3: As a passing offense rather than a single team t
wing type of offense. Anyway, So seventy two to ninety
BYU dominates, and then Ronnie Mack comes into power up
at the U and he kind of replicates somewhat of
what Lavelle was doing with the polynes and pipeline and
stealing recruits anyone that got shunned by BYU that was LDS,
polonies and whatever.
Speaker 2: He would recruit him.
Speaker 3: And then he had also a nice fair share of
like Cali and Texas recruits that would come in and
buoy them up and from nineteen ninety to about I
don't know, twenty ten, before Utah made the jump to the.
Speaker 2: Back twelve, it was fifty to fifty. Yeah, wins and losses.
Speaker 3: Kyle Whittingham did some great things in taking over in
two thousand and five, and then the PAC twelve came knocking.
Speaker 2: Our one research institution.
Speaker 3: You know, all these things kind of tapping into the
demographic here, and they took off.
Speaker 2: Utah took off. And I guess you.
Speaker 3: Know, with all this enmity, there is a religious element
in all of this too, even though you know we
want to keep religion out of it, but we called
the Holy War for a reason. Now you've experienced this
for a few years now, how would you describe the rivalry,
the back and forth, the enmity, the how would you
describe kind of like what is empowering these fan bases.
Speaker 2: To really collide and hate each other to a degree.
Speaker 4: It's the most unique rivalry in all of college football,
and I feel comfortable saying that, and the biggest piece
it can be overstated, and I do think from an
outsider's perspective, this part of the rivalry becomes so oversaturated.
Even folks who are in the rivalry. Don't want it
to be brought up as the paramount peace. But it's religion,
is it is.
Speaker 3: Faith, it is the idea, it's church state right and
at the same.
Speaker 5: Time, and here's what makes it even more complex.
Speaker 4: There are seven thousand ish Utah students who are members
of the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter day Saints.
So from there you have school who represents state, school
who represents church going at it. But in the midst
of this Utah fan base you have kids look around
going but that's the flagship university of my faith, and
my faith goes deeper than my football affiliation at least
three hundred and sixty four days out of the year, right,
this is the one day that's so that's what's what's
so complex about this. When Alabama plays Auburn, it's not
about the Southern Baptist Methodists.
Speaker 5: It's about Alabama versus Auburn.
Speaker 4: This is a matchup where you are looking at BYU
who who who represents again the flash of university of
one of the world's fastest growing faiths, and Utah that
for at least one Saturday, by and large, says we
are to be the antithesis of the buttoned up church
going vibe that you're gonna get from the people in blue.
But at the same time, so much of that fan
base represents Church of Jesus Christ for Laturday Saints.
Speaker 5: So what's what's wild to me?
Speaker 4: And I love the stories of you know, Oregon player
at church plays the BYU fight song the Sunday after
the Holy War, or you know, half this church they're
all Utah fans. The other half of the by My
cousin went to Byu, my mom went to Utah. Yeah,
that's what's beautiful about this rival where you just don't
have the depth of a faith or a religion, a
belief system that trickles into Texas versus Oklahoma.
Speaker 3: All the quotes that that have come out of this rivalry,
whether it's Lenny.
Speaker 2: Gomes, I don't know if you saw this one.
Speaker 3: He's like, I'm gonna be making sixty thousand a year.
This was a post game quote, sixty thousand year in
those utes are gonna be pumping my gas. You know
there's that there's like this like, you know, holier than that,
but also smarter than now. From b Yu to Utah.
Then you have Max Hall say, I hate them, they're classless.
Speaker 2: They threw in my family. You have Kyle Whittingham siding like, well,
my family was in a.
Speaker 3: Was assaulted by BYU fans. You have Utah fans threatening
to let off set off a nuclear.
Speaker 2: Reactor if they lose.
Speaker 3: You have this year some BYU crazy fan threatening to
kill people if they come to Lavelle.
Speaker 4: I mean, it's insanelved every now and.
Speaker 3: Then Mark Carlin running onto the field to play and
then taking to the.
Speaker 4: Postic wealth player for Utah on the field last season,
Mark Harlo.
Speaker 3: It's you can't even like begin to describe, like what
is going on internally in the minds and the hearts
of these people.
Speaker 4: I don't want to dilute. I don't want to dilute
the Auburn Alabama killing the trees thing.
Speaker 2: Oh that's true. That's a been pretty big, But.
Speaker 5: That happens every year here.
Speaker 4: There's some version of Paul I killed the trees. There's
some version of that in the Holy War every single season.
And that's I don't know if it's beautiful or terrible,
but it's what we love about college football.
Speaker 5: It's what the Big twelve needs more up.
Speaker 4: I set a game day today and a big new kickoff,
and you know, I talked to Santiago, I talked to Koloney,
I talked to RG. Three of these guys that have
become really that in my last three years being involved
and covering BYU, have just gotten to know these personalities
human beings and seeing the passion they have for BYU
and the one day out of the year they really
had this, this this fervor against Utah. I don't understand
why this matchup wasn't played for a group for a
number of years.
Speaker 5: For a group of years, you know why. I do
know why. Yeah, but it makes still makes no sense.
Speaker 4: This deserves he played every weekend in college football if
they could.
Speaker 5: This is what we love about the sport.
Speaker 4: And it may I go back to and not to
say that things aren't a little messed up, because they
surely are in the game right now with the players
having no salary cap and and you know, you got
guys right now who are probably that BYU locker room
who got a DM from a running coach in California
who said, hey, two point two if you want to
go to USC next year. That running coach is not
affiliated with the program, so can't be fined. That's happening
and it's bad. But to anyone who says kywoiche football.
Speaker 5: Is dying or dead or being killed, show up at
Provo tonight. Yeah, I'll prove you wrong.
Speaker 3: What's interesting about like why it wasn't played just to
kind of stem off the enmity and the hate and
the vitriol those things.
Speaker 2: There came a time when like Utah saw it as like.
Speaker 3: Hey, we're already dominating here, we have Pack twelve affilia.
Speaker 2: There's no need for us to play this anymore.
Speaker 5: We need to take us.
Speaker 2: They hurt them, it could potentially hurt them.
Speaker 3: I asked Kylwoiteham in twenty fifteen before the rival game,
said like what competitive advantage does BYU still have over Utah?
If any because I had made the statementor there's no
reason for Utah ever to lose this game.
Speaker 2: Why they don't have an honor code?
Speaker 3: They have Pack twelve affiliation and their academic standards for
their student athletes are much lower than the academic standards
that at BAU.
Speaker 2: And they had all the resources.
Speaker 3: To twenty thirty forty million within their organizational design that
they could invest that Bua, you didn't have There's no
reason for Utah to ever lose this game. And he said, look, Ben,
the only competitive advantage that Vo he still has over us,
says every once in a while, there's a legacy kid
that will just go to BYU, the Chase Roberts, right,
their dad played at BUYU.
Speaker 2: Now we're on equal footing.
Speaker 3: Oh yeah, now you're seeing a change though, like, oh crap,
and Kyle is over here like thinking to himself, and
I believe it. I believe his legacy was built on
the domination of the rivalry game, not due to his
post season success or double digit wins. Give me your thousands,
what what's his legacy? More so built off of domination
the rivalry or double digit win seasons, in bowl victories,
in high level games.
Speaker 5: They've been to the Rose Bowl.
Speaker 4: They haven't won a Rose Bowl, right, and they've won
the Pack Twall championship. The pack trol doesn't exist anymore,
and I don't want to dilute those are massive.
Speaker 2: PAC twelve does not exist anymore.
Speaker 3: You dominated a conference de fact no longer exists.
Speaker 4: So I don't and again I don't want to dilute
those entirely. But Utah could go one and eleven every year,
b while you could too. And as long as you
win that rivalry game, the Holy War Game, there's still
some hope that coach isn't being fired. You won the
one game that we needed you to win. We've got
the argument is taken care of. We can go to
church every Sunday and say, well, we beat you. And
Kyle Whittingham has not done that the last two times
these teams have played. And I think last year, I
really do believe I said it earlier and I'm gonna
stand by it. Kyle Whittingham is done after this season.
If Utah wins today sands pretty much any result the
rest of the way Kyle Whittingham.
Speaker 5: Has done this season.
Speaker 4: He is retiring if Utah beats BYU because this is
the one this is the game that he has not
been able to win now two straight years.
Speaker 5: And somebody tweeted, I wish I could I attribute this.
Speaker 4: They said, the importance of this game is so much
on Utah because if they lose for a third year
and Wittingham stays, Morgan Scally is gone, you've lost three
in a row. Kyle Whittingham's lost his fastball. You're not
going to Arlington. This could become a spiral year this year,
a spiral year under Winningham next year. The importance is
for Utah to win this game. B why you could
lose and you want to hear can I tell you
a secret? They'd be at the exact same spot as
Utah six and six. This game is so much more
important to the Utes because of what it means for
Kyle Whittingham's legacy.
Speaker 3: Twenty two years as a head coach of the University
of Utah, and he's got seven double digit win seasons
where you know he essentially is going to a good
bowl game, right Obviously two the most recent in the
Rolls Bowl, in which.
Speaker 2: They just couldn't get over the hump. They couldn't win
those games.
Speaker 3: And look BYU in the BCS era, they weren't able
to get to a BCS Bowl. They couldn't bust the
BCS Bowl system. Utah did do that in two thousand
and eight, and they did it in two thousand and
four as well. So like there's a legacy in two
thousand and eight, like seven, three of those double digit
win seasons came in the Mountain West.
Speaker 2: The way under Kyle winning Him? Would you agree or disagree?
Speaker 5: Though?
Speaker 2: And I think you would let you. You elaborated on
this enough.
Speaker 3: But is his legacy built more so off with those
seven double digit win seasons in Bowl games in top
twenty five finishes or is it built more so off
of the domination of the robbery?
Speaker 2: Which one? Is it more so?
Speaker 5: You can answer your question with a question.
Speaker 4: Sure, if Kyle winning Him had gone twenty two seasons,
seven double digit win seasons, but he was zero to
eighteen against BYU, what would Utah fans think about.
Speaker 2: Kyle hund percent? They probably had wanted him fire.
Speaker 5: Run him out of town, run him out of town,
get him out of here.
Speaker 4: Absolutely, that's what this rivalry means to the to BYU fans,
to Utah fans into who the head coach is at
these two universalis.
Speaker 3: I agree with you, Drake told, ladies and gentlemen, Drake,
give me a score raadi channati. See this game playing
out tonight under the lights of Lavelle.
Speaker 4: Utah gets up ten to nothing, fast starting team B
What use a slow starting team? I think Utah gets
up ten nothing. They want to prove something tonight. That
first script from winning Ham is gonna be the best
of his career. It has to be from there. A
Rod's not going to freak out. I've been very impressed
last few weeks. Off Let's keep running the football even
down DOUBLET.
Speaker 3: Saying something because you've been anti's been so anti you
are anti Roderick, And this year it's.
Speaker 4: Slowly but steadily I'm coming around. I'm starting to believe
to shout out to a Roddams a great guy, great family.
Speaker 2: It helps.
Speaker 3: It helps a good OC to have a really good
run game coordinator and a balance out. And I don't
think I think after Grimes left, yep, you thought there
was a little bit of a drop off in his
run game coordinator, because you know, we all have tendencies.
Speaker 2: We all buy your seas. You know, we all like
to do certain things and works right.
Speaker 5: Your way works always, obviously, but you need balance.
Speaker 4: Utah gets ahead ten nothing, BYU doesn't freak out. They
run the football well, even if they're down thirteen ten
at halftime or down thirteen six thirteen seven at half time.
I think BYU rallies to win it because of how
good they are in the fourth quarter. We've seen Utah
wear down in fourth quarters. I think think they did
against Texas Tech. Final score BYU twenty three Utah nineteen.
It's another classic in the Holy War, and the Cougars
come away victorious.
Speaker 3: Yeah, I mean, shoot, I was looking at the there's
thirty one games since nineteen ninety or so, and nineteen
of those were one score victory. I think atten in
the last twenty four if actually twenty two.
Speaker 5: I believe it's incredible. You can't how do you? How
do you build that? How you did that? Scan hard
to do on purpose?
Speaker 3: It's crazy, It's it is insane, no doubt about it.
Drake Toll, Ladies and Gentlemenke sure you're following him on
X for all of his hot takes. Locked on Big
twelve Drake, she told he's also a part of the
Savannah Bananas on the on the color commentary and play
by play call.
Speaker 5: No doubt.
Speaker 4: Always fun to be in this little camper here too.
I used the bathroom earlier. I mean I peede all
in there until they told me the bathroom doesn't actually work.
Speaker 5: So that's somebody else's problem.
Speaker 3: Yeah, there's I won't I won't be cleaning it either,
but I'm sure we'll find someone to clean it up.
Speaker 2: Drake Tall. Ladies and gentlemen, we appreciate him.
Speaker 3: Locked on Big twelve, we're live from the Swig just
south of Lavelle Edwards Stadium. Royal Army Brand is here,
Rectech is here. Come get a swig, Come get some
Polled Port Sandwich is Shout out to y Soup Kyle
his family football is better at level shirt.
Speaker 2: I love that T shirt.
Speaker 3: We'll go to break, don't go anywhere more to get
to getting your bread, getting you ready for this holy war.
This is Cougar Sports on one of three nine ninety
point three year