Speaker 1: He's night side with Dan Ray I'm w Bsy Costin's Radio.
Speaker 2: Theyy you very much. Dan Walkers also bring Red Sox
Speaker 2: fans up to date. Raffie Devers, in his first ab
Speaker 2: for the San Francisco Giants struck out, so he's all
Speaker 2: for one for the Giants, but I suspect he'll hit
Speaker 2: a home run pretty soon. We're going to take an
Speaker 2: opportunity here to talk about the Karen Reid trial today.
Speaker 2: There were four questions that were submitted by the jurors
Speaker 2: to the judge, Judge Beverly Canoni. All of those questions
Speaker 2: have been interpreted differently by different people. Very difficult to
Speaker 2: tell what's going on. My suspicion is that I thought
Speaker 2: the questions overall, just overall, were beneficial for the defense.
Speaker 2: That was my take on it. Now you might agree
Speaker 2: or disagree, It doesn't really matter what to know what
Speaker 2: you're taking is on the case. And also love to
Speaker 2: talk to some people who have actually been out there
Speaker 2: for the duration or have been out there many days
Speaker 2: as part of the support team of Karen Reid. I
Speaker 2: think it's interesting. It's a high profile case and people
Speaker 2: do get interested and they become committed and again, I'm
Speaker 2: not going to detegrate what they're doing out there. They
Speaker 2: have every right to be out there, and I'm sure
Speaker 2: that it provides her a lot of psychological support. The
Speaker 2: only lines open right now are six one, seven, two, five,
Speaker 2: four to ten thirty. You could be from New England
Speaker 2: because this is a New England case of Massachusetts case,
Speaker 2: or you can be from anywhere in the country and
Speaker 2: you may have a belief in what did or did
Speaker 2: not happen. That's what we're talking about. Six one, seven, two, five, four,
Speaker 2: ten thirty. Next up is Steve in Bridgewater. Steve, Welcome
Speaker 2: to Night's I go right ahead, Steve.
Speaker 3: Hi Jan Yeah, I got a few things I want
Speaker 3: to say. Comments first, and that is yeah, I heard
Speaker 3: a gal talk a couple of several calls ago, and
Speaker 3: she went over a lot of things that she the
Speaker 3: one that said nobody will ever know what really happened
Speaker 3: that night, which is she's one thousand percent correct, but
Speaker 3: based on a lot of things she said, obviously she's
Speaker 3: been following the case a lot more than I have been,
Speaker 3: and I hear the case being saturated with reasonable doubt.
Speaker 3: That's how I hear it. So I think the jury
Speaker 3: should have an easy time getting you know, finding her
Speaker 3: not guilty. But the question that they asked the judge today,
Speaker 3: you know, and the judge said she couldn't answer.
Speaker 2: I think that I think that the question that the
Speaker 2: judge felt she could not answer was the fourth question.
Speaker 2: If we find not guilty on two charges but can't
Speaker 2: agree on one charge, is it a hung jury on
Speaker 2: all three charges or just one charge? That was a
Speaker 2: very specific question. Uh, And she said this is a
Speaker 2: theoretical question, not one that I can answer. I think
Speaker 2: that's the one you're talking.
Speaker 3: About, right, Yeah, But I thought they have to find
Speaker 3: they have to come to an agreement on all of them,
Speaker 3: you know, not no.
Speaker 2: No, no, no, no, no, no, no no. That's the
Speaker 2: point that was I thought the mistake if there was
Speaker 2: a mistake in the first trial. So she's charged with
Speaker 2: let's just walk through it. She's charged with second degree murder.
Speaker 2: That's the most serious charge. You have to prove on
Speaker 2: second degree murder, some form of intent. I don't think
Speaker 2: that there's any evidence that you could come up with
Speaker 2: any sort of intent. Normally, second degree murder can be
Speaker 2: a crime of passion. It's you know, a barroom fight
Speaker 2: and and some guy hits uh, hits the guy, no
Speaker 2: question about that. Hits him. However, however, h he didn't
Speaker 2: intend to kill him, and it's he hit his head
Speaker 2: on the floor or whatever, and so that's what happens.
Speaker 2: It's more, it's not an accident. He threw the punch.
Speaker 2: But that's your classic second degree murder case or a
Speaker 2: crime of great passion. All of that. Then the second one,
Speaker 2: manslaughter while operating a vehicle under the influence of liquor. Now,
Speaker 2: if you take that, there's three lesser included charges, which
Speaker 2: means they could come back with simply manslaughter without reference
Speaker 2: to the liquor. They could come back with motor vehicle homicide,
Speaker 2: or they come back with a simple OUI. And then
Speaker 2: the third one, leaving the scene of an accident resulting
Speaker 2: in death. They could come up with any combination here.
Speaker 2: I think second degree murder is probably off the board.
Speaker 2: I think yes, leaving the scene of an accident resulting
Speaker 2: in a death, that's kind of straightforward. She did not know,
Speaker 2: she did not have to know as an element of
Speaker 2: that crime that the guy was dead. But she could
Speaker 2: have known, or you could impute knowledge to her that
Speaker 2: that she hit him if she did. And again that's
Speaker 2: why the lawyers are arguing there's no evidence and that
Speaker 2: that that her vehicle struck him. It's not like she's
Speaker 2: got to get out and say Lee looks dead to me,
Speaker 2: I'm getting the hell out of here. No, it's it's
Speaker 2: you have an accident in the road with somebody, uh,
Speaker 2: and and and you don't go over and and somehow,
Speaker 2: some way that person dies from the accident. You could
Speaker 2: be on the hook for leaving the scene of an
Speaker 2: accident resulting in death or resulting in damage to personal property.
Speaker 2: So yeah, I think that if they come back, they
Speaker 2: could come back or they could say not guilty on one,
Speaker 2: they could say not guilty on two, and they could
Speaker 2: come back with guilty on three. Well they could yeah, yeah,
Speaker 2: or different combination.
Speaker 3: Yes, that's true. There are times people are found not
Speaker 3: guilty on certain things but guilty on this. Yeah, that's true.
Speaker 2: Absolutely. Yeah, juris can come back with split verdicts. It's
Speaker 2: attap to that. So we'll see what I make.
Speaker 3: One of the comic you know, you mentioned about, you
Speaker 3: mentioned about you. Don't think the entire country knows you.
Speaker 3: I think every everybody in else, the entire US knows.
Speaker 3: You know why I'm saying that, Why that's your tube.
Speaker 3: I watched Court TV and there and they talk about
Speaker 3: it every night and there.
Speaker 2: I know they're nation wide, well they are nationwide. But
Speaker 2: I got to tell you, there's a lot of people
Speaker 2: who don't know the name of the vice president of
Speaker 2: the United States. They do those polls all the time.
Speaker 2: There's a lot of people who live in their own
Speaker 2: reality and they just don't have a clue. I mean,
Speaker 2: you know, that's just that's the reality that they have.
Speaker 2: They're they're living their life. Yeah, when I say it's
Speaker 2: I mean I think everybody knew about the O. J.
Speaker 2: Simpson case. I don't think this is at that level.
Speaker 2: It's known by a lot of people, there's no question,
Speaker 2: but yeah, I don't think everyone. There's a lot of
Speaker 2: people kind of zone out. They lived their life and
Speaker 2: they probably there were some people who don't know. Well,
Speaker 2: it was tough to Donald Trump, but there were people
Speaker 2: when they asked who was president with Joe Biden, there
Speaker 2: were people who were I'm not sure.
Speaker 3: I knowed My brother out in Arizona. If he knows,
Speaker 3: I'll ask him tomorrow. He lives out in Tucson. Dan
Speaker 3: I'm gonna ask him if he knows, all right.
Speaker 2: Call me back, let me know what he says.
Speaker 3: Okay, thanks, all right, Jan, thanks for the call.
Speaker 2: Thanks Fred, appreciate your call. Brother, Steve, excuse me, thank you, Steve.
Speaker 2: I appreciate your call.
Speaker 4: Uh.
Speaker 2: Frank is next. I got some open lines here. Six one, seven, two, five,
Speaker 2: four ten thirty six one seven, nine three one ten thirty.
Speaker 2: I'm still looking for the first person who has been
Speaker 2: out there, uh, and would love to express why again.
Speaker 2: I can understand following the case. I can understand maybe
Speaker 2: be over there a couple of days, but there are
Speaker 2: people who have been out there religiously throughout the trial.
Speaker 2: That's quite a commitment. Six one, seven, two, five, four
Speaker 2: tenth six seven the Karen Read case. My sense is
Speaker 2: that with based on the jury decision questions that were
Speaker 2: directed to the judge today, I think you're going to
Speaker 2: get a decision on this tomorrow.
Speaker 4: Now.
Speaker 2: I'm not going to bet my life on that, but
Speaker 2: I think it's more likely than not you'll get a
Speaker 2: decision tomorrow. If you don't get one tomorrow, we'll get
Speaker 2: it on Thursday. I think that this this jury is
Speaker 2: getting close, and that's my view. Whatever you have to
Speaker 2: say on it. Agreed, disagree, More importantly what you think.
Speaker 2: That's what I want to hear from you. Join the
Speaker 2: conversation back on Nightside after this.
Speaker 1: It's night Side with Dan Ray on Boston's news radio.
Speaker 2: All right, let's get right back to the calls. You're
Speaker 2: going to go to Frank in Boston. Frank, appreciate your patience.
Speaker 2: It is paid off. You are next on Nightside, Frank.
Speaker 5: Hey, thank you, sir. Hey, he got hit by the car. Okay,
Speaker 5: he got hit by the car, the tail gate smashed,
Speaker 5: the the sharp edges and the cutting his arm and
Speaker 5: that's how he got the cuts. And also my my,
Speaker 5: my other question, but my question is after that, just
Speaker 5: why are these people gravitating to this woman so much?
Speaker 2: Okay? Well, first of all, I think you stated you're
Speaker 2: The first thing you stated was your belief in the case, right.
Speaker 3: Yes, okay.
Speaker 2: Uh. I think that there's a lot of people who
Speaker 2: have come to the belief that nothing happened at the
Speaker 2: car and that uh, he went into the party at
Speaker 2: this house and got into a bit of a dust
Speaker 2: up or a fight, whatever you want to call it,
Speaker 2: with people inside. Uh, and.
Speaker 6: The the are argument that people have made to me
Speaker 6: is oh, yeah, he he uh, he got punched out
Speaker 6: by someone and then uh, maybe they they didn't realize
Speaker 6: he was dead and they just threw him out on
Speaker 6: the lawn to have him, you know, sleep it off
Speaker 6: or something.
Speaker 2: That's that's the the other point of view. And you
Speaker 2: can talk to some of those folks and they are
Speaker 2: deeply committed to that belief. They they they cite all
Speaker 2: sorts of uh facts. For example, they will tell you
Speaker 2: that there was a dog that was in the house
Speaker 2: which was rehoused, was moved away. I had no idea
Speaker 2: where the dog ended up. I don't know if the
Speaker 2: dog is still alive. And and that they there was
Speaker 2: a carpet which was cut up and removed. And obviously
Speaker 2: people who believe that, and I haven't seen evidence to that.
Speaker 2: It was not put in as an affirmative defense to
Speaker 2: the best of my knowledge, but but that's what people believe.
Speaker 2: And and as a result of those beliefs, they assume
Speaker 2: that Karen Reid is being set up for a homicide indictment,
Speaker 2: when in fact she's a victim like her former boyfriend
Speaker 2: who was killed but not by Karen Reid. That's where
Speaker 2: that's where they come from. Where they're coming from.
Speaker 5: Well, I think that that that's my scenario about the
Speaker 5: sharp ends on the cracked tailgate light tail light might
Speaker 5: be the cause of those those scars on those cuts
Speaker 5: on his arm.
Speaker 2: Well, I think that's what the prosecution would like the
Speaker 2: jury to believe. I think you're right on that. That's
Speaker 2: what the I think that you're correct that with that's
Speaker 2: the prosecution's theory.
Speaker 5: But I still don't understand how these there's something going
Speaker 5: on in that community have made these people such celebrities.
Speaker 5: I mean, something bad going on over there for them
Speaker 5: so jump on his case like they have. It seems like, well.
Speaker 2: It's a it's a high profile case and it involves
Speaker 2: a young couple.
Speaker 5: You think so, I don't think so. It seems like
Speaker 5: it seemed like a recul murder case that that would
Speaker 5: that that would just be on the news one off
Speaker 5: the news the next day.
Speaker 2: Well, I mean, the man who's dead is a police officer,
Speaker 2: his girlfriend is his girlfriend is accused of having in
Speaker 2: some form of fashion killed him. That's I think That's
Speaker 2: what I don't know. Maybe someone will call and have
Speaker 2: a better explanation of a Frank I'm I'm I'm not
Speaker 2: an expert.
Speaker 5: No reason I say that is because they've come out
Speaker 5: so loudly against the police.
Speaker 2: Well they kept them come out against I think the
Speaker 2: Canton police. Yeah yeah, well, I mean I think that. Well.
Speaker 2: I think that as the story got told and retold,
Speaker 2: people came to believe it. I don't know the truth.
Speaker 2: I'm not I don't know what happened. I wasn't there.
Speaker 2: All right, Frank appreciate you call. Always gonna hear your voice.
Speaker 2: Thanks much. Tuck right back at you. Okay, we're picking
Speaker 2: it up a little bit here. Let me go next
Speaker 2: to Matt in Franklin. Hey, Matt, welcome back to night
Speaker 2: sig go righthead, Matt.
Speaker 7: Yeay dan So I said from the beginning, I thought
Speaker 7: they should have sequestered the jury and relocated the trial.
Speaker 7: I just think she went on such a pr campaign
Speaker 7: with the bloggers that everybody's mind was already made up.
Speaker 7: And the Free Karen re conspiracy people. You can't convince
Speaker 7: them otherwise. They're just completely convinced. It's like, have any
Speaker 7: of you people done any serious drinking in your life?
Speaker 7: The first thing you remember when you sober up is
Speaker 7: what you did wrong, and she is four hours later
Speaker 7: going out looking for someone she's assuming's dead. It's like
Speaker 7: usually when you get into the argument met with someone
Speaker 7: that's like got to be your ex, It's like I'll
Speaker 7: wake up and noon and forget about it and maybe
Speaker 7: we're still together. But she's out there looking for him
Speaker 7: like he's dead and finds them. It's like, well, that's
Speaker 7: usually what happens when you sort of blackout or a
Speaker 7: blackout or were almost there. So it's just like, yeah,
Speaker 7: they're gonna have a tough time. I think it's gonna
Speaker 7: be a repeat.
Speaker 2: Well, I don't know. You know, Matt, It's funny, if
Speaker 2: you were a psychology professor, you could have been a
Speaker 2: witness in this case because if you had yeah, if
Speaker 2: you had the.
Speaker 7: She's from here, they flow her out. She's like, oh,
Speaker 7: I want to come home and visit and I sort
Speaker 7: of know you Alan, and then they fly her out
Speaker 7: here for the weekend and she's somehow an expert after
Speaker 7: having treated the dog bite in thirty five years.
Speaker 2: So yeah, okay, well you obviously know more about the
Speaker 2: case than I do. I was joking with you, and
Speaker 2: what I'm saying to you is that if Let's say
Speaker 2: you were you had a psychology decree, then you could
Speaker 2: have gone in there and you could have presented that
Speaker 2: and said, hey, the first thing that people think of
Speaker 2: in the morning is oh, that's what I did, you
Speaker 2: know whatever.
Speaker 3: First hand experience from back in the day. What I'm
Speaker 3: gonna say too.
Speaker 7: About that's crazy about it is like everybody's like everybody
Speaker 7: in the town's in on it. It's you're from Sherburne, right.
Speaker 2: I lived in We lived in sherburn for twenty.
Speaker 3: Years, but I grew up overnight.
Speaker 7: Like a lot of those towns are like the Keystone
Speaker 7: Cops overnight. It's like, does anybody think we'd have like
Speaker 7: the best of the best investigating this thing in the
Speaker 7: morning at seven in the morning. It's like and they're like, oh,
Speaker 7: they all know each other. It's like that's every single
Speaker 7: town around Boston. It's all people that are like Irish
Speaker 7: that move one town over.
Speaker 2: Wait, no, we got we got be knocking the Irish
Speaker 2: here on dan Ratio.
Speaker 4: Go yeah, but I mean I'm Irish.
Speaker 2: No, no, no, no no. What I'm saying to you
Speaker 2: is this, when I understand the argument you're making. However,
Speaker 2: what mitigates against your your argument is that when a
Speaker 2: police officer is dead, generally police officers get on their
Speaker 2: best behavior because that's the case they want to solve. Now,
Speaker 2: the behavior of a couple of the state police investigators
Speaker 2: on that case seem to be pretty cavalier, which surprised.
Speaker 7: That they obviously weren't expecting them to get up their
Speaker 7: hands on the phone. And I think a lot of
Speaker 7: that had to do with Rachel Rollins.
Speaker 2: So well, again, you're you're going deep into, uh, into
Speaker 2: a theory that I'm not familiar with. But what I'm
Speaker 2: saying is, as a police officer, and you're a state
Speaker 2: police officer, and you're a homicide investigator, and and the
Speaker 2: and the and the body that you're investigating or the
Speaker 2: crime you're trying to solve is that of a fellow
Speaker 2: police officer. In my opinion, most police officers to take
Speaker 2: that responsibility pretty seriously. They wouldn't be saying, hey, check
Speaker 2: her file for nude pictures or whatever. I'm checking her
Speaker 2: file for new I mean, that's a little over the top,
Speaker 2: but and and I think it's it was egregious, that's all.
Speaker 2: You don't think that.
Speaker 7: Yeah, And at the same time, like if you have
Speaker 7: the woman that was hammered outside the house screaming should
Speaker 7: hit him, and then their cars.
Speaker 2: Damn.
Speaker 7: It's like, how much of an investigation are they really
Speaker 7: going to do into.
Speaker 3: The house, on the surrounding tables, the bodies on the yard.
Speaker 7: There's a glass there that they found. It's like, why
Speaker 7: would they talk to all these Okay, well.
Speaker 2: You're well, I still think I would think that that
Speaker 2: even if they concluded, let's assume that they concluded, oh yeah,
Speaker 2: this uh, this this woman who's running around saying I
Speaker 2: think I might have hit him. I think I might
Speaker 2: have hit him. I would think. And I'm not a
Speaker 2: police officer, No will life play one of the radio,
Speaker 2: but I would think that I might not loo on
Speaker 2: a few doors in the area and say, hey, you
Speaker 2: guys happen to have like a video cam or anything
Speaker 2: that that that has been you know, those cameras as
Speaker 2: you know, self erase in many cases after twenty four hours. Yeah,
Speaker 2: you would think that did you hear anything out here
Speaker 2: last night? Were you guys asleep at twelve o'clock? Oh no,
Speaker 2: we had a party. Oh really? Oh okay, any drinking
Speaker 2: going on? You know? I mean, I would think not
Speaker 2: only the house where he was found on the lawn dead,
Speaker 2: but maybe the next door neighbor's house and the guy
Speaker 2: across the street. I would think, I don't know, maybe
Speaker 2: I'm asking too much, but.
Speaker 7: You or no, they're probably half awake anyways.
Speaker 4: But that's that's.
Speaker 2: Why, that's why, that's why God invented Duncan Donuts coffee
Speaker 2: so police would wouldn't be half half asleep in the morning.
Speaker 2: Come on, a man, I love you.
Speaker 4: Call you.
Speaker 2: You got to You're you're kind of sardonic, but I
Speaker 2: loved your call. Thanks man, keep calling. Okay, it's a
Speaker 2: good one. Coming back on Nightside, we get the news
Speaker 2: at the bottom of the hour. We are keeping our
Speaker 2: eye in the Middle East. Don't worry about that. Coming
Speaker 2: right back on Nightshide.
Speaker 1: It's Nightside with Dan Ray on Boston's news radio.
Speaker 2: Your own personal Raffie Devers watch continues here on Nightside.
Speaker 2: Devers has just doubled first hit with the Giants and
Speaker 2: drove in his first run with the Giants. Meanwhile, the
Speaker 2: Red Sox are losing in Seattle tonight. The last time
Speaker 2: I looked at it still is five to nothing. Let's
Speaker 2: keep going here. We're talking about a different scorecard and
Speaker 2: gonna go to John in Salem, Massachusetts. We're talking about
Speaker 2: the Karen retrap. I'm still looking for some people who
Speaker 2: have been out there a day after day after day.
Speaker 2: Hey John, welcome next on Nightshide.
Speaker 3: Hey how you doing.
Speaker 8: So I just want to answer that guy's question real quick,
Speaker 8: is why is the fanfare about so high?
Speaker 4: It's always that way when it's.
Speaker 8: Just non criminal people. I mean, nobody's going to follow
Speaker 8: a trial of some criminal that you know, murdered somebody
Speaker 8: in the streets somewhere. But anyway, that's why they're They're
Speaker 8: all kind of normal people.
Speaker 4: She was a professor, he was a policeman.
Speaker 8: It's understandable.
Speaker 2: I think that's a great point obviously, the O. J.
Speaker 2: Simpson trial because of who O J. Simpson was, the
Speaker 2: guy who played football, the guy who was a Heisman
Speaker 2: Trophy winner, the guy who was was it was it
Speaker 2: hurts or avis that he was that he used to
Speaker 2: run through airport.
Speaker 4: Yeah.
Speaker 8: And then and then you had the Scott Peterson and
Speaker 8: the Standard you know, husband kills the wife and the baby.
Speaker 4: You know the Peterson Well, they weren't well known people.
Speaker 2: So I mean that's if Peterson is closer.
Speaker 8: To this, but that Yeah, that's what I'm saying, though
Speaker 8: there were not they were non criminal people, whether or not.
Speaker 8: I mean, no, I know it wasn't well known either.
Speaker 2: Yeah. If there's a couple of guys who you know,
Speaker 2: end up in a in a fight, I don't know,
Speaker 2: you know it involved you know, in drug deals or
Speaker 2: something like that, you kind of assume that that's what's
Speaker 2: going to happen, you know.
Speaker 8: Yeah, when it's clearly somebody that's guilty, you don't really
Speaker 8: want to follow them.
Speaker 4: Yeah, let me ask you one more question.
Speaker 8: Sure anywhere in the trial, and I know you haven't
Speaker 8: been there the whole time in me neither, but did
Speaker 8: anyone ever talk about insurance? Like, you know, so I
Speaker 8: have a trampoline in a pool, and if somebody gets hurt,
Speaker 8: just hurt, you know, and maybe brought to the emergency
Speaker 8: room for stitches, the insurance company does investigations, and what
Speaker 8: do they think happened? And was the body really on
Speaker 8: city property or their front lawn because it was their
Speaker 8: front lawn, there's going to be one hundred page report
Speaker 8: on that.
Speaker 2: Well, first of all, I assume that whoever owned that
Speaker 2: home would have had some homeowners insurance because obviously, if
Speaker 2: someone walks up your steps and slips on your steps,
Speaker 2: so there's a loose brinker front steps, and you have
Speaker 2: personal liability. So I would assume that, but maybe they don't.
Speaker 2: I don't know that this is ever brought up at all.
Speaker 2: To the best of my knowledge, I haven't followed the
Speaker 2: case on a day to day basis, but I haven't
Speaker 2: followed like I'm following Raffie Devers in San Francisco tonight.
Speaker 2: Let me put it like that.
Speaker 8: Yeah, and maybe maybe he did just stagger out there.
Speaker 8: I mean to be honest with you that I staggered
Speaker 8: home a couple of times in my days, and I
Speaker 8: don't want to tell you where I was sitting on
Speaker 8: rocks or doing whatever I was doing. Yeah, so maybe
Speaker 8: he didn't get dragged. Maybe he did get in a fight,
Speaker 8: they thought it was over, he walks out, thinks she's
Speaker 8: coming back, and he just falls down.
Speaker 2: I guess that's why I said earlier. No matter what
Speaker 2: happens with the verdict, I'm not sure that we're ever
Speaker 2: gonna know for sure. I mean, if there has been
Speaker 2: a doorbell camera, Let's say that there was a doorbell
Speaker 2: camera that the state police had discovered and on the
Speaker 2: camera were pictures of him walking into the house, and
Speaker 2: the state police had secured that camera, that video footage
Speaker 2: that night. She never would have been indicted.
Speaker 8: But if it really was a blizzard, those cameras aren't
Speaker 8: the best things in the world anyway. If it's a blizzard,
Speaker 8: you could just see an image walking in. But I
Speaker 8: think he walked out on his own after a brawl.
Speaker 2: Well again, what you think? And I think it is interesting,
Speaker 2: but it doesn't the jury's not going to have go No.
Speaker 8: I wanted I wanted to know what the insurance company thinks.
Speaker 8: That's where I want to know.
Speaker 2: Yeah, well I don't. I don't know if to the
Speaker 2: best of mine, I have heard nothing in any of this,
Speaker 2: and we have a lot.
Speaker 8: Of and even the even the auto insurance. If you
Speaker 8: have a beautiful Lexus that kill somebody or you know,
Speaker 8: at least accused of, there's going to be an investigation
Speaker 8: there as well.
Speaker 2: Absolutely there should be.
Speaker 8: But again then you can compare it, and then you
Speaker 8: compare all three. Yeah, okay, one, all right, John, thank you, Dan,
Speaker 8: thank you, sir.
Speaker 2: Maybe there's someone out there listening who's going to be
Speaker 2: able to say to us there was an insurance report filed.
Speaker 2: I don't know that to be the truth. So simple
Speaker 2: as that, I'm one of these guys. I enjoy the conversation.
Speaker 2: I learned as much from you guys as you might
Speaker 2: learn from me. I probably learned more from you guys.
Speaker 2: It's as simple as that. I there are some things that.
Speaker 8: I and there is a bottom line here. The bottom
Speaker 8: line is something something happened to him.
Speaker 2: It's the bottom line is a young guy who adopted
Speaker 2: two children. Uh is not in a police officer people?
Speaker 9: Well, yeah, I mean you assume we're all flawed, right, Yeah,
Speaker 9: they weren't gang members, is what I think you're trying
Speaker 9: to say to me in a different way.
Speaker 2: Simple as that, Hey, John, I gotta roll here. You
Speaker 2: gotta go. Thank you much, Thank you. Good call. Thoughtful, thoughtful,
Speaker 2: Appreciate it, Appreciate it. Mike is in Newton, Mike, you
Speaker 2: were next on a Nightsiger Right ahead, Mike.
Speaker 4: Damn, my blood is boiling.
Speaker 2: Well, I'm I'm happy to that. I hope it's only
Speaker 2: caused by the conversation and you don't have some sort
Speaker 2: of blood.
Speaker 4: Go ahead, No, I haven't been down in Denham, but
Speaker 4: I've watched just about every single day of both trials.
Speaker 4: We have watched everything. People that are calling in they
Speaker 4: haven't watched the evidence, Dan, the evidence, the arc of people.
Speaker 4: They didn't nobody hit him. The vehicles did not hit him. That,
Speaker 4: doctor Lapisada. The vehicle did not hit him. The X rays,
Speaker 4: there was no bruising, There were no broken bones, Doctor Russell.
Speaker 4: They were dog bites. There were animal bites. The Dighton
Speaker 4: cop who picked up the car from Karen's father's house
Speaker 4: said it was a cracked tail light. And when he
Speaker 4: was instructed to go to the house at five o'clock
Speaker 4: or something in the afternoon there to pick up the
Speaker 4: car from from her father's house, he said, we're investigating
Speaker 4: the homicide. That it was a done deal by the
Speaker 4: time they got to the car at Karen's house. And
Speaker 4: then a hare followed from from wherever it was. I
Speaker 4: don't know where it was. It was fall River or something.
Speaker 4: All the way back to the Canton Sallyport. One piece
Speaker 4: of hair was stuck on the bumper. And then the
Speaker 4: Boston cop who recanted her complete story, her complete testimony
Speaker 4: because she went upstairs and talked to the police commission.
Speaker 4: Oh that I had a brain. I had a brain.
Speaker 2: Here's the deal, here's the deal. You're you're speculating wildly
Speaker 2: in terms of that. She talked to the police commissioner.
Speaker 2: I know no evidence that that was introduced in court
Speaker 2: to that effect.
Speaker 4: It came out in trial, Jess. They talked to See
Speaker 4: the problem is you guys didn't listen to the trial.
Speaker 2: Well, here's the deal. Here's the deal. It came up,
Speaker 2: here's the deal. Here's the deal. You're correct. Let me
Speaker 2: be honest with you. Okay, Mike, you're correct. I did
Speaker 2: not spend my day as apparently you were able to
Speaker 2: do listening to No, No, No, No.
Speaker 4: I didn't. I didn't spend my day. No. I worked
Speaker 4: all day and then I came home at night and
Speaker 4: Will I listened to Better Throw. I listened to UH
Speaker 4: a number of other stations. We watched the trial. We
Speaker 4: watched every single bit of it. We watched all the evidence.
Speaker 2: Okay, you got to get a life, John, You've got
Speaker 2: to get a life here, Okay, excuse me, Mike, Mike.
Speaker 4: Dan You're you're losing it. You got a little dementia.
Speaker 2: Oh please, you know what, Mike, you know want you
Speaker 2: you know, stick it in your ear. Okay, have a
Speaker 2: great mode. Yeah, okay, uh see you see you. I
Speaker 2: was actually I was panning to go to my lext
Speaker 2: my next caller. Uh. You you need to get a life, Okay.
Speaker 2: Uh I I know enough about the case to know
Speaker 2: what what made UH coverage both in the Globe, the
Speaker 2: Herald and on the major stations. So again, anyway, stick
Speaker 2: it in your ear mind as simple as that. Okay,
Speaker 2: we'll leave it at that. We'll take a no, I'll
Speaker 2: take one more call here. Actually I'm going to go
Speaker 2: to Ian and San Antonio, Texas. Ian has this story
Speaker 2: made its way all the way to Texas?
Speaker 10: Oh? Yes? And yeah. So this is what I wanted
Speaker 10: to tell you about the way I see things. And
Speaker 10: I didn't follow the first trial. It was a glance.
Speaker 10: It was at a glance every once in a while.
Speaker 10: What caught my attention on the first trial was the
Speaker 10: comments of a detective proctor. I couldn't believe my ears,
Speaker 10: but it harkened me back to when I grew up
Speaker 10: there and I knew and I have one hundred support
Speaker 10: behind law enforcement. Personally, I believe in safety. But there
Speaker 10: is something particular, particularly peculiar about some jurisdictions there in Massachusetts.
Speaker 10: I grew up there, and I've seen it with my
Speaker 10: own eyes, and I did watch the first trial because
Speaker 10: I didn't want to make an opinion unless I saw
Speaker 10: for myself the evidence in trial.
Speaker 2: Okay, so what's.
Speaker 4: That.
Speaker 10: She is completely not guilty. It was a frame up.
Speaker 10: The evidence in court was compelling in that in all
Speaker 10: those on all that those counts, they police completely did
Speaker 10: not do their job un ethically or ethically. The night
Speaker 10: of the accident. Nothing he was investigated but a little,
Speaker 10: a little bit around him. They didn't knock on if
Speaker 10: this is what I think happened, if they had done
Speaker 10: their job that night, they would have known what happened.
Speaker 10: I believe that he walked in the house, into the
Speaker 10: not into the house, excuse me, the garage. There's a
Speaker 10: door to the right that went directly into the garage,
Speaker 10: and he was attacked by the dog. In the force
Speaker 10: of that dog, uh knocked him back right back on
Speaker 10: his head, and the dog did him. Okay, I don't
Speaker 10: believe there was a fight. I believe they came. They
Speaker 10: didn't know this happened. The occupants of the house for
Speaker 10: a little for a bit, and then he was found,
Speaker 10: and then they tried to cover it up and frame her.
Speaker 2: Yeah.
Speaker 10: Well again, well I don't want to say frame her. No,
Speaker 10: I take that back. They I think they really did
Speaker 10: want to make it look like the plow, you know, stopping.
Speaker 4: Their job.
Speaker 10: Okay for investigation.
Speaker 2: So did you grow up in Boston? And is that
Speaker 2: what you said?
Speaker 3: Yes?
Speaker 2: Oh, come on, you realize that. So you're not related
Speaker 2: to Dave the other fellow who calls from San Antonio. No,
Speaker 2: I didn't know if you were next door neighbor or something.
Speaker 2: How'd you get to San Antonio?
Speaker 10: My husband's job is taking us all around the world.
Speaker 2: Really, okay? Military military, Yes, yes, good for you, Thank you,
Speaker 2: thank your husband for service. Well, I that's you presented
Speaker 2: it very well. You presented what your belief is, which
Speaker 2: is what which is what we do here on night side.
Speaker 10: And uh, I believe that she was drunk driving, I
Speaker 10: mean to drink that much and go in a car,
Speaker 10: and they all did and that was I found that
Speaker 10: quite striking that nobody and this is law enforced, and
Speaker 10: they had no compunction about getting in the cars and
Speaker 10: driving after drinking at a bar.
Speaker 2: There was Well, I think that part of that is
Speaker 2: that police officers sometimes figure that they get a courtesy
Speaker 2: from another police officer. But like anything else, you gotta
Speaker 2: you gotta always make sure that Yeah, no, you're right
Speaker 2: on that one. Yeah, thank you so much. That was
Speaker 2: a great I really appreciate it. Keep in touch. I
Speaker 2: thought you would like I don't know. I figured that
Speaker 2: you must have known Day from San Antonio. When you
Speaker 2: see him down there, say hello for me.
Speaker 4: Okay, okay, thanks, I talk.
Speaker 2: To you than now. See I just had a mystery solve.
Speaker 2: Let me take a quick break. Come right back on Nightside.
Speaker 1: You're on night Side with Dan Ray on wz Boston's
Speaker 1: news radio.
Speaker 2: Right, let's keep rolling here. I'm gonna go to John
Speaker 2: and Boston John next on nights. I go ahead, thanks you.
Speaker 4: I don't want to nurse. The other n I called
Speaker 4: to that he was Johnald Key was missing three liters
Speaker 4: of blood. There was a lot of blood that was missing.
Speaker 4: I try to find that in the records of the
Speaker 4: court that I couldn't quite fight. It's not saying it's
Speaker 4: not there, but whether I do no, even if it
Speaker 4: was three pints of blood, it would be all over
Speaker 4: that ground there, and it just wasn't that amount of blood. Also,
Speaker 4: there was blood going down a shirt. And if he
Speaker 4: was laying a hit by the car, he would it
Speaker 4: would be around his neck and his shoulders. And a
Speaker 4: couple observations also did the experts. The experts said he
Speaker 4: was not hit by a car. So then what are
Speaker 4: the amateur jer was supposed to think? If the experts
Speaker 4: said that he was not hit by a car, then
Speaker 4: how was the amateur jervey What are they supposed to think?
Speaker 3: Uh?
Speaker 4: And you don't need to be a trained journalist or
Speaker 4: at the beginning to know that. Hey, you know, just
Speaker 4: to the Palace of O. You can't have a tremendous
Speaker 4: grass of the obvious, just know one. Hey, wait a minute,
Speaker 4: the experts said he wasn't hit by a car.
Speaker 2: No, No, I get that. No, I get that. I
Speaker 2: understand what you say, and I understood it was but
Speaker 2: normally normally, and again I had the disadvantage of being
Speaker 2: honest with people. I'm not going to tell you that
Speaker 2: I watched every frame of the testimony, that I stayed
Speaker 2: up late at night, like my friend Mike. I don't
Speaker 2: know what Mike does for a living, but he's got
Speaker 2: a lot, he's got too much time in his hands.
Speaker 2: What I'm saying is there probably was experts on the
Speaker 2: other side. Normally in these cases you have two experts prosecution, defendant,
Speaker 2: a defense expert, and one says one thing, one says
Speaker 2: the other. It's very rare John that Let's say an
Speaker 2: expert gets up with the witness stand and the lawyer
Speaker 2: for the other side jumps up and says, your honor,
Speaker 2: I have no questions. This guy knows what he's talking about.
Speaker 2: I'm with him, or vice versa. That's all I'm saying
Speaker 2: is that there's probably stuff that that the jury can
Speaker 2: look at from different ways. If that's the way trials work.
Speaker 2: It's as simple as that.
Speaker 4: I agree to you. Like Brettan, he's highly educated trained.
Speaker 4: I'm sure in the powers of observation. I'm sure both
Speaker 4: sides had access to all the documents the examiners had
Speaker 4: ye like, for instance, Attorney Brennan, and he had access
Speaker 4: to the Document's examiner cut the holes in the back
Speaker 4: of John o'keith sweatshirt, and yet he presents the sweatshirt
Speaker 4: to the jury and points out the holes, specifically implying
Speaker 4: that they were created by getting hit by a car,
Speaker 4: and that they were created by as opposent. He had
Speaker 4: the document did yet he was highly educated and he
Speaker 4: knew he had the documents from the medical examiner that
Speaker 4: said they were created by her, and he presented it
Speaker 4: to the jury. And then he says he makes a mistake.
Speaker 2: That's exactly true. Guess what, John, John, Guess John, John.
Speaker 2: I bet you you've made a few mistakes in your life.
Speaker 2: I know I've made mistakes in my life.
Speaker 4: And I don't believe it was a mistake. I'm I'm sure.
Speaker 2: You don't, John. I'm sure you don't, John, And I'm
Speaker 2: not going to disabuse you of that notion. John. And
Speaker 2: there's no reason to talk over me. I've given you
Speaker 2: plenty of time to talk here.
Speaker 4: What I'm saying you interrupted, no time to explained before
Speaker 4: I got my thought through, that's all, Dan.
Speaker 2: I think you've got your points out very clearly. John. Okay.
Speaker 2: Is there any point that I have prevented you from making?
Speaker 4: Sometimes you just cut in and just stolen me finish it,
Speaker 4: that's all, But go ahead.
Speaker 2: No, But is there a point that you want to
Speaker 2: make that you haven't made?
Speaker 4: The only other point I'm make, Dan, is the detective
Speaker 4: Galagher is here in the morning, thirty years experience. He
Speaker 4: doesn't check the video across the street that's looking at
Speaker 4: the crime scene, but he goes and gets borrows the
Speaker 4: leaf flower to blow snow. Does that not create suspicions?
Speaker 4: I would go up and again you be you're a
Speaker 4: detective of thirty years and you don't go check the
Speaker 4: video on a ringer that's at the crime scene.
Speaker 2: John, all of that evidence is going to be with
Speaker 2: the jury. What I'm what I disagree with you about.
Speaker 2: You're making a conclusion that Hank Brennan, who I know
Speaker 2: a little bit is a highly ethical lawyer, would be
Speaker 2: a fool, and he's not a fool, would be a
Speaker 2: fool to try to say, well, I'm gonna I'm somehow
Speaker 2: gonna scam the jury here into thinking I don't know,
Speaker 2: I've made mistakes, You've made mistakes. I think we're all
Speaker 2: pretty hypercritical here tonight, and a lot of you have
Speaker 2: figured this out. And it's too bad that you weren't
Speaker 2: in the jury, because maybe we would have a verdict
Speaker 2: by now. All I'm just telling you is, go ahead, John.
Speaker 2: I'm sorry to be talking while you're interrupting me.
Speaker 4: But go ahead, go ahead ahead. I'm not good.
Speaker 2: Well, you were trying to you were accusing me of
Speaker 2: interrupting you, and then you're doing the same thing to me.
Speaker 2: All I'm saying, John, is that I don't know the
Speaker 2: answers that you seem to have, and that Mike from
Speaker 2: Newton has the and others have. I'm simply trying to
Speaker 2: whenever a set of viewpoint, I play a little what's
Speaker 2: called Devil's advocate, John. That's my job. My job is
Speaker 2: not to sit here and say what George, right up, yup,
Speaker 2: up up up up? Good good points, John, And guess.
Speaker 4: What I get it?
Speaker 2: Matt. Matt was Matt was right on the money. Matt
Speaker 2: was right. I don't do that, John. I I try
Speaker 2: to pick your arguments apart. That's what my job is.
Speaker 2: So don't be offended by it. Okay, that's all I'm saying.
Speaker 2: Don't be offended by it.
Speaker 4: Yeah, I'm it's just said. It's not even my eye,
Speaker 4: but just telling you what what the attorney said in
Speaker 4: court and what and as matter of fact, character.
Speaker 2: I know what he said in court, John, and he
Speaker 2: said I made a mistake. Have you ever made a
Speaker 2: mistake in your life? John? Have you ever said to
Speaker 2: someone guess what. I'm wrong. I made a mistake.
Speaker 4: I have I just again. You know, he had access
Speaker 4: to the documents, he.
Speaker 2: Knew he was.
Speaker 10: Trying.
Speaker 2: He was trying to scam the joy throwing up John,
Speaker 2: him up on my brake. I gotta let you run.
Speaker 4: I think you got it. Attorney too, So let's hold
Speaker 4: him again.
Speaker 2: Let's hold that against him, because Whitey Bulger didn't deserve
Speaker 2: to have a decent attorney. He had to be crumbed.
Speaker 2: He probably worked with Mighty, with Whitey Bulger, maybe killing
Speaker 2: a few people. Come on, John, that's really beneath you. John,
Speaker 2: And I know you well enough to know that's beneath you.
Speaker 2: There's a lot of people of Alan Dershowitz was Donald
Speaker 2: Trump's attorney, Okay, and Alan Dershowitz, come on, that's beneath you.
Speaker 2: Good Night, Back on Night's side. Right after this