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Fred Rosen follows a killer's trail back in 56 00:02:53.280 --> 00:02:56.520 time two decades to discover how a monster slipped through 57 00:02:56.560 --> 00:03:00.879 the legal system. When police and Tampa floor arrested Larry 58 00:03:00.919 --> 00:03:05.919 Singleton in nineteen ninety seven for brutally murdering prostitute Roxanne Hayes, 59 00:03:06.560 --> 00:03:09.639 they soon realized it wasn't the man's first violent attack. 60 00:03:10.639 --> 00:03:14.199 Back in nineteen seventy eight, he had gained notoriety as 61 00:03:14.280 --> 00:03:17.439 the Mad Chopper for raping and cutting off the arms 62 00:03:17.479 --> 00:03:20.400 of fifteen year old Mary Vincent on a patch of 63 00:03:20.520 --> 00:03:26.159 desolate sun's scorched land five miles off the highway near Modesto, California. 64 00:03:27.800 --> 00:03:30.840 When Singleton was led out of prison on supervised parole 65 00:03:31.000 --> 00:03:34.879 after serving only eight years for his crimes, no community 66 00:03:34.919 --> 00:03:38.400 in California would accept him. He eventually moved back to 67 00:03:38.520 --> 00:03:41.639 his home in Florida, where he killed Hayes, nearly twenty 68 00:03:41.719 --> 00:03:46.319 years after his original crime. But his first victim, Vincent, 69 00:03:46.919 --> 00:03:50.360 had survived walking nearly a mile to get help after 70 00:03:50.479 --> 00:03:53.400 the assault, and testified against him at the trial for 71 00:03:53.520 --> 00:03:56.759 murdering Hayes. The book they were featuring this evening is 72 00:03:56.800 --> 00:03:59.919 The Mad Chopper, How the Justice System let a mutilate 73 00:04:00.199 --> 00:04:03.759 or free this time to kill With my special guest, 74 00:04:03.960 --> 00:04:07.520 Fred Rosen, Welcome to the program, and thank you very 75 00:04:07.599 --> 00:04:13.719 much for agreeing to this interview. Fred Rosen. Good evening, 76 00:04:13.759 --> 00:04:26.240 Fred Good evening, Fred Rosen, Good evening, Fred Rosen. 77 00:04:27.720 --> 00:04:32.839 Hello, Hello, Fred, good evening, Good evening, Dan, how are 78 00:04:32.879 --> 00:04:34.680 you fine? Thank you. 79 00:04:35.560 --> 00:04:38.360 We had another caller, so I guess it's someone just 80 00:04:38.480 --> 00:04:41.560 listening in, So welcome to the program. Welcome back, Fred. 81 00:04:41.800 --> 00:04:44.800 Well, it's my pleasure. I can understand. I know what 82 00:04:45.000 --> 00:04:49.399 was happening while there was a problem. That's that's the NSA. 83 00:04:49.560 --> 00:04:52.399 They're they're they're making trouble. Dan, you know what I mean. 84 00:04:52.639 --> 00:04:57.000 Okay, Sure, Well that's good. More listeners the better. 85 00:04:57.800 --> 00:05:00.279 Hey, Well, you know I never thought of it that 86 00:05:01.160 --> 00:05:09.160 they could be listening to Washington. Yeah, we're not supposed 87 00:05:09.160 --> 00:05:13.959 to get political. I suppose right. How are you Dan, 88 00:05:14.120 --> 00:05:16.079 How are you fine? 89 00:05:16.160 --> 00:05:18.319 Thank you, Fred? How are you busy as usual? 90 00:05:18.439 --> 00:05:23.079 I see, yes, sir, yes, sir, I am. And it 91 00:05:23.240 --> 00:05:29.199 was funny because I reread you know, The Man Chopper today, 92 00:05:30.439 --> 00:05:34.199 and you know, because unlike some people who do what 93 00:05:34.399 --> 00:05:40.480 you do, you actually read the book and ask incredibly 94 00:05:41.639 --> 00:05:45.240 intelligent questions. And I got to tell you when I 95 00:05:45.319 --> 00:05:47.199 got to the end of it, and I know I 96 00:05:47.360 --> 00:05:50.519 wrote it, I had tears in my eyes because of 97 00:05:50.639 --> 00:05:56.079 Mary Vincent. Absolutely, I mean it was really something, and 98 00:05:56.480 --> 00:05:59.720 you know, I haven't looked her up lately, and well, 99 00:05:59.879 --> 00:06:01.759 you know, obviously we're going to talk about it. But 100 00:06:03.000 --> 00:06:06.839 you know, it's very very interesting, you know, how these 101 00:06:06.959 --> 00:06:12.079 things play out and how the justice system works regardless 102 00:06:12.120 --> 00:06:16.800 of the country. And I'm very aware that, thank god, 103 00:06:17.079 --> 00:06:22.680 you have listeners all over the world, and so it's 104 00:06:22.720 --> 00:06:25.639 not just the question of what happens in the United States. 105 00:06:26.560 --> 00:06:32.279 It's Canada, it's Australia, it's it's it's it's England, it's Germany. 106 00:06:32.959 --> 00:06:34.439 You know, we're all in this together. 107 00:06:38.199 --> 00:06:42.519 Now, let's get to the the question I always ask 108 00:06:42.720 --> 00:06:48.360 is I'm curious what exactly brought you this opportunity to 109 00:06:48.879 --> 00:06:50.600 do this book to match up er, how did you 110 00:06:50.720 --> 00:06:52.959 come to this book? 111 00:06:54.600 --> 00:06:59.279 Well, this it's you know, in reading again and reading 112 00:06:59.360 --> 00:07:01.680 the book again, and it reminded me that this is 113 00:07:01.759 --> 00:07:06.800 pretty unique. What happened was it's twenty years ago, okay. 114 00:07:09.639 --> 00:07:13.199 And what happened was my daughter had just been born, 115 00:07:14.879 --> 00:07:18.240 and I was in Valparaiso, Indiana, waiting to go upstairs 116 00:07:18.560 --> 00:07:25.279 to the neo natal unit to holder meter, you know. 117 00:07:26.759 --> 00:07:30.439 And before we went upstairs, I had a local paper 118 00:07:31.199 --> 00:07:34.680 and I'm reading the local paper and Dan, I see 119 00:07:34.759 --> 00:07:39.759 the picture of this dude, Larry Singleton, staring up at 120 00:07:39.800 --> 00:07:42.319 me from page three. I remember what paper it was, 121 00:07:42.399 --> 00:07:45.800 but it doesn't make any difference. And I start reading 122 00:07:46.199 --> 00:07:49.839 and it said that this guy had been captured in 123 00:07:51.399 --> 00:07:56.319 Hillsboro County, Florida, which is the Tampa area, for murdering 124 00:07:56.360 --> 00:07:59.319 a prostitute. And I had written a book called Lobster 125 00:07:59.399 --> 00:08:05.759 Boy there about crime there, and I went, g, this 126 00:08:05.959 --> 00:08:09.360 is you know, you know, I know these people and stuff, 127 00:08:10.519 --> 00:08:12.600 and you know, I know all the cops and the 128 00:08:12.680 --> 00:08:17.800 prosecutors and so forth. And what happened was, Dan, it 129 00:08:17.959 --> 00:08:22.920 was serendipity. I got a phone call from my editor, 130 00:08:23.040 --> 00:08:27.319 Paul Dennis, who at that time was the editor in 131 00:08:27.399 --> 00:08:32.759 chief of Kensington Books. And this fellow pulled Dennis is 132 00:08:32.919 --> 00:08:36.799 largely responsible for the way that true crime became a 133 00:08:37.440 --> 00:08:42.559 popular genre. And Paul said to me, Fred, I was 134 00:08:42.639 --> 00:08:44.919 just reading the you know, the New York of the 135 00:08:45.000 --> 00:08:48.559 Daily News, New York newspaper, and he said, there's a 136 00:08:48.600 --> 00:08:51.120 front page story about a guy called the Man Chopper. 137 00:08:51.360 --> 00:08:53.759 I said, I just saw the same picture. He said, 138 00:08:53.799 --> 00:08:58.159 that's your next book. I said what. And I told 139 00:08:58.240 --> 00:09:01.240 him my daughter had just been born. And I said, well, 140 00:09:01.240 --> 00:09:03.440 this seems a little bit violent, even for me. And 141 00:09:03.559 --> 00:09:07.440 he goes, Fred, you just became a father. You need work, 142 00:09:08.759 --> 00:09:10.360 and that's how this book came about. 143 00:09:12.720 --> 00:09:18.840 Amazing. Now let's get to Let's get to Berkeley, California, 144 00:09:18.840 --> 00:09:21.720 and where you set the stage. It's just nineteen seventy eight, 145 00:09:21.879 --> 00:09:28.200 University of California, a very unique university, an incredible time, 146 00:09:28.360 --> 00:09:31.759 nineteen seventy eight. And this is University of California, you say, 147 00:09:32.039 --> 00:09:35.559 across the bay from San Francisco. And yet she sets 148 00:09:35.600 --> 00:09:41.440 out this fifteen year old girl, Mary Vincent, fifteen years old. 149 00:09:42.039 --> 00:09:44.120 She had as you've set the background, she had a 150 00:09:44.200 --> 00:09:49.360 companion named Diego Montea, and ironically and very bizarrely, he 151 00:09:49.600 --> 00:09:53.120 was accused of raping a different fifteen year old girl, 152 00:09:54.000 --> 00:09:57.519 but she was dedicated to him, and so she decided 153 00:09:57.559 --> 00:10:00.399 to help him out. And she was going to see 154 00:10:00.440 --> 00:10:04.480 her lawyer in Marion County Civic Center and she called 155 00:10:04.519 --> 00:10:06.559 her grandfather. She didn't have any money, Rick or Vincent 156 00:10:07.120 --> 00:10:09.159 in Los Angeles, and she said she was going to 157 00:10:09.279 --> 00:10:12.200 visit him, asked him to get some money. So she 158 00:10:12.320 --> 00:10:15.000 was hitchhiking, and she had hitchhiked and she got to 159 00:10:15.159 --> 00:10:18.559 what they call Hitchhiker's Corner. So take it from there. 160 00:10:18.840 --> 00:10:23.360 What happened at Hitchhiker's Corner and who she meets. 161 00:10:24.519 --> 00:10:29.320 Well, what happens is Dan. She she's at Hitchhiker's Corner, 162 00:10:29.399 --> 00:10:33.840 which is a which is a place on the University 163 00:10:33.879 --> 00:10:37.759 of California at Berkeley's campus where kids would go to hitchhike. 164 00:10:39.039 --> 00:10:42.039 And a dude pulls up, pulls up in a van 165 00:10:43.320 --> 00:10:48.080 and and he says, where are you going? And she says, 166 00:10:48.120 --> 00:10:52.200 I'm going to Los Angeles, blah blah blah. And this 167 00:10:52.440 --> 00:10:57.159 guy is a guy with a I love this word, 168 00:10:57.519 --> 00:11:04.559 Bulbous knows. And he's in his oh he's in his 169 00:11:04.679 --> 00:11:09.440 early fifties, and uh, he's you know, but he's he's 170 00:11:09.480 --> 00:11:13.279 a tall guy. He's very well built, and uh, he 171 00:11:13.360 --> 00:11:17.399 seemed pretty innocent enough. And she gets in the car 172 00:11:17.600 --> 00:11:21.440 with him, and the next thing, you know, you know, 173 00:11:21.480 --> 00:11:27.919 they're driving through you know, they leave Berkeley, which is 174 00:11:28.200 --> 00:11:33.720 of course, which is east of San Francisco, and he's 175 00:11:33.840 --> 00:11:37.600 really supposed to go south, you know, to get to 176 00:11:37.679 --> 00:11:42.960 Los Angeles, but he keeps going east. And she gets 177 00:11:43.200 --> 00:11:47.960 very suspicious, like what's this about? And he gives us 178 00:11:48.000 --> 00:11:51.799 some BS story and eventually he takes her to a 179 00:11:52.039 --> 00:11:57.559 house where he's a house that he has, and what 180 00:11:57.639 --> 00:11:59.840 he does is he said, listen. He says, if you 181 00:12:00.000 --> 00:12:03.200 help me load some stuff into the van, I'll give 182 00:12:03.240 --> 00:12:05.759 you some money and I'll take yourself to Los Angeles. 183 00:12:06.639 --> 00:12:09.840 She says, okay. So they go to the house. She 184 00:12:10.120 --> 00:12:14.759 helps him load the stuff into the van, and a 185 00:12:14.840 --> 00:12:17.759 lot of it is dog food, believer or not. They 186 00:12:17.840 --> 00:12:22.480 get back in the in the van and he starts 187 00:12:24.279 --> 00:12:30.879 imbibing from a gallon jug. And I didn't know people 188 00:12:31.000 --> 00:12:33.440 do this sort of stuff, because it turns out that 189 00:12:33.559 --> 00:12:39.720 in the gallon jug he's got two hundred percent alcohol 190 00:12:39.919 --> 00:12:44.639 dan which he cuts with water and the next thing 191 00:12:44.720 --> 00:12:49.679 you know, he's drinking. You know, he winds up. You know, 192 00:12:49.720 --> 00:12:52.519 they're driving and they keeps going east and she's going, 193 00:12:52.600 --> 00:12:56.879 what's going on here? Well, this guy winds up raping 194 00:12:57.039 --> 00:13:05.159 this poor girl and it gets worse. Should I keep going? 195 00:13:05.360 --> 00:13:07.720 Or do you want to just ask the questions? Yeah? 196 00:13:08.080 --> 00:13:11.639 No, So so there's a point where you talk about 197 00:13:12.039 --> 00:13:15.159 she has again there's some red flags come up because 198 00:13:15.200 --> 00:13:19.480 he acts bad at first, then he apologizes, then he 199 00:13:19.600 --> 00:13:24.080 takes her for a little dinner. Everything seems to be okay. Again, 200 00:13:24.159 --> 00:13:26.159 this is not this is just a fifteen year old girl. 201 00:13:26.240 --> 00:13:28.480 That's you know, in that time that was his shiking. 202 00:13:28.679 --> 00:13:30.559 Was it was normal? 203 00:13:30.679 --> 00:13:30.799 Man? 204 00:13:32.440 --> 00:13:35.480 Yes, I think that's an excellent point to make that 205 00:13:35.840 --> 00:13:40.039 in the late seventies in California, this was the end 206 00:13:40.080 --> 00:13:43.799 of the hippie era. This was not an uncommon situation 207 00:13:44.879 --> 00:13:50.159 for uh, for kids to hitchhike. This was before we 208 00:13:50.200 --> 00:13:54.879 were worried about serial killers and so forth. So she 209 00:13:55.120 --> 00:13:57.120 was just doing what a lot of kids did. Because 210 00:13:57.159 --> 00:14:00.840 she wanted to go to Los Angeles to talk to 211 00:14:00.919 --> 00:14:03.440 her granddaddy who is going to help her out financially, 212 00:14:03.519 --> 00:14:03.759 and so. 213 00:14:04.000 --> 00:14:05.600 For it, and. 214 00:14:07.399 --> 00:14:11.279 The guy takes her to dinner. But again, eventually what 215 00:14:11.519 --> 00:14:18.720 happens is he's drinking and like some alcoholics Larry Singleton, 216 00:14:18.799 --> 00:14:22.360 which is the name of the bad guy, he becomes 217 00:14:22.440 --> 00:14:26.759 a different human being under the influence of alcohol, and 218 00:14:26.919 --> 00:14:32.440 he winds up raping Mary Vincent. And then it gets 219 00:14:32.519 --> 00:14:36.320 worse from there, I believe, you know, which is part 220 00:14:36.399 --> 00:14:39.399 to believe, ladies and gentlemen, but it does. It gets 221 00:14:39.519 --> 00:14:40.440 much worse from there. 222 00:14:43.360 --> 00:14:47.159 Now you talk about her being raped, and he is 223 00:14:47.279 --> 00:14:51.240 not taking her anywhere near Los Angeles at all. He 224 00:14:51.360 --> 00:14:55.159 takes her into the Del Puerto Canyon, a really deserted 225 00:14:55.240 --> 00:15:01.159 and isolated place, and there's a point where he says, 226 00:15:01.200 --> 00:15:03.159 you know, I got to take a leap, and she 227 00:15:03.240 --> 00:15:07.919 says me too, So we can Can we say. 228 00:15:07.799 --> 00:15:13.559 That on radio? Yeah? Yeah, Okay, go ahead, I'm sorry. 229 00:15:14.240 --> 00:15:19.399 So he's talking about he's raping her brutally, but now 230 00:15:19.480 --> 00:15:21.960 he's got his hands around her neck, so it's a 231 00:15:22.000 --> 00:15:25.679 little different than the previous rape. Yes, and he decides 232 00:15:25.720 --> 00:15:29.080 he looks around and he sees this drainage pipe, So 233 00:15:29.360 --> 00:15:32.279 what does he do well, yeah, we. 234 00:15:32.360 --> 00:15:35.799 Need to explain this. That's an excellent point. What happens 235 00:15:35.919 --> 00:15:37.960 is and I went out there when I wrote the book. 236 00:15:40.039 --> 00:15:45.440 I can't write about something unless I see it and 237 00:15:45.759 --> 00:15:50.720 breathe it so that the reader understands what it's about, 238 00:15:52.080 --> 00:15:54.480 you know what I mean. So and and I just 239 00:15:54.679 --> 00:15:58.159 so that people understand we're talking about I don't know 240 00:15:58.200 --> 00:16:01.320 how many miles he's that is of that maybe it's 241 00:16:01.399 --> 00:16:06.960 twenty five miles east of Lodesto, California. And what happens 242 00:16:07.080 --> 00:16:12.519 is he says he needs to take a leak, and 243 00:16:12.600 --> 00:16:16.879 the girl says the same thing. And he's in this 244 00:16:17.399 --> 00:16:22.840 really isolated place. I mean we're talking. You know, it's 245 00:16:22.879 --> 00:16:26.120 a movie set. You know, people have seen this stuff 246 00:16:26.159 --> 00:16:30.240 in the movies. You know, an isolated like high desert. 247 00:16:30.360 --> 00:16:32.480 I think they call it the high Desert. I'd have 248 00:16:32.559 --> 00:16:36.440 to look at my geography, but it's a very deserted 249 00:16:36.600 --> 00:16:41.440 area and a lot of rocks and so forth. And 250 00:16:42.559 --> 00:16:47.440 he parks the van near a covert and they get 251 00:16:47.559 --> 00:16:57.240 out and the next thing you know, he is assaulting 252 00:16:57.360 --> 00:17:02.440 her again. But you want me to say what happens? 253 00:17:04.279 --> 00:17:06.599 I guess I should. All right, I'll just say ladies 254 00:17:06.640 --> 00:17:13.160 and gentlemen, this is probably the I think in my career. 255 00:17:13.319 --> 00:17:19.559 It is the most horrific physical assault I know of. Okay, 256 00:17:20.440 --> 00:17:23.839 we're not just talking rape. What happens is Larry Singleton 257 00:17:23.960 --> 00:17:30.480 realizes that he needs since he has raped her, if 258 00:17:30.519 --> 00:17:36.880 she survives, she can testify against him. So the idea is, 259 00:17:38.079 --> 00:17:47.279 what do you do to prevent identification? And we're not 260 00:17:47.440 --> 00:17:49.559 dealing with a guy who's got all of his oars 261 00:17:49.640 --> 00:17:54.160 in the water. And what he decides to do is 262 00:17:54.279 --> 00:17:57.960 throw her down on the ground, and he's good, and 263 00:17:58.279 --> 00:18:06.680 he takes a hatchet and he cuts off her arms 264 00:18:07.039 --> 00:18:08.680 below the elbow. 265 00:18:08.680 --> 00:18:09.000 So that. 266 00:18:11.680 --> 00:18:16.680 There won't be any fingerprints. And then he takes her 267 00:18:16.759 --> 00:18:21.279 body and he thinks she's dead and stuffs her into 268 00:18:21.359 --> 00:18:28.279 the colvert. And this idiot then takes the severed limbs 269 00:18:28.440 --> 00:18:30.640 and puts them in his back in his sand and 270 00:18:30.880 --> 00:18:39.799 drives off. And Mary, God was with her, survives. And 271 00:18:39.920 --> 00:18:44.359 what happens is she winds up it and she's conscious, 272 00:18:44.400 --> 00:18:48.079 Ladies and gentlemen, when he does it. But God was 273 00:18:48.119 --> 00:18:50.880 with her because what happens is there's a lot of mud, 274 00:18:52.200 --> 00:18:58.319 so that the stumps that she has now are in 275 00:18:58.480 --> 00:19:03.359 the mud. And that's stops the hemorrhaging and the bleeding. 276 00:19:05.119 --> 00:19:11.039 She will subsequently wake up, and when she does, this 277 00:19:11.599 --> 00:19:16.920 girl has so much survival in her she will walk 278 00:19:17.000 --> 00:19:22.960 almost two miles until a good Samaritan helps her. And 279 00:19:23.119 --> 00:19:28.319 what happens is Singleton, the bad guy goes back west 280 00:19:30.079 --> 00:19:34.519 and he's driving over the Oakland Bay Bridge, which many 281 00:19:34.599 --> 00:19:38.000 of us have driven over. And you know what he does, Dan, 282 00:19:39.240 --> 00:19:42.480 He opens up the driver's side door and he tosses 283 00:19:42.559 --> 00:19:47.960 the limbs out into the water, which turned out to 284 00:19:48.079 --> 00:19:55.640 be a very, very big mistake. And this is why 285 00:19:56.359 --> 00:19:59.240 you know people like me and you get to write 286 00:19:59.279 --> 00:20:02.799 about people this because they're not the brightest apples in 287 00:20:02.880 --> 00:20:08.160 the bunch. They just figure that nobody's going to know 288 00:20:08.240 --> 00:20:10.119 about it. But that's not what happens here. 289 00:20:12.559 --> 00:20:17.960 You talk about him attempting to kill her, because basically 290 00:20:18.039 --> 00:20:20.640 that's what he thought he was doing, was murdering her 291 00:20:20.839 --> 00:20:22.920 and cutting off her hands so that she could not 292 00:20:23.039 --> 00:20:26.480 be identified if the body was found, and he tried 293 00:20:26.480 --> 00:20:28.240 to do at least a good job of hiding the 294 00:20:28.319 --> 00:20:31.079 body for the time period, and then believed he could 295 00:20:31.079 --> 00:20:33.039 take the hands and throw them away as he did. 296 00:20:34.079 --> 00:20:36.920 The image that I get from the way you've written 297 00:20:36.960 --> 00:20:39.160 this book is that and this image is still in 298 00:20:39.279 --> 00:20:40.880 my head and it's been in my head since I 299 00:20:40.920 --> 00:20:47.839 start reading this book. Oh wow, her wandering down the highway, naked, delirious, 300 00:20:49.839 --> 00:20:53.960 eighty or ninety degree weather. The first car that sees her, 301 00:20:54.039 --> 00:20:58.559 after she's managed to walk a mile or more, he's 302 00:20:58.640 --> 00:21:01.799 so affrightened he turned around and takes off the other way. 303 00:21:02.319 --> 00:21:04.440 It takes her, she doesn't even know how many hours 304 00:21:04.480 --> 00:21:10.279 before someone else comes and saves her. A man comes 305 00:21:10.559 --> 00:21:13.920 and takes her into his car, drives to an airport 306 00:21:13.960 --> 00:21:17.839 and calls nine to one to one. Amazing that image 307 00:21:18.039 --> 00:21:22.920 of this woman with just bloodied stumps, naked, walking down 308 00:21:22.960 --> 00:21:24.920 the road asking for help. 309 00:21:26.640 --> 00:21:30.079 And you know, it's what's so interesting about what you're saying, 310 00:21:31.880 --> 00:21:40.279 is that, is that you would have thought, given the 311 00:21:40.400 --> 00:21:44.839 name what you're saying, the images, And you're right, the image, 312 00:21:45.119 --> 00:21:50.119 it's an incredible image. You would have thought that in 313 00:21:50.279 --> 00:21:54.559 some way somebody would have done an m Ow movie 314 00:21:54.640 --> 00:21:57.799 of the week or a movie, but that never happened. 315 00:21:58.200 --> 00:22:03.119 And I suspect it's because it's so horrific. But I 316 00:22:03.279 --> 00:22:10.720 think what's very interesting here is that she you're you know, 317 00:22:10.839 --> 00:22:14.160 you're right. I mean, she's walking in this you know, 318 00:22:14.240 --> 00:22:19.160 it's eighty or ninety degrees, and she's naked because that's 319 00:22:19.440 --> 00:22:24.519 you know, each stripped of her clothing. And the first dude, 320 00:22:24.599 --> 00:22:28.480 that Caesar, walking along in the shimmering desert heat, just 321 00:22:28.599 --> 00:22:31.799 keeps going, Well, I don't know who that person is, 322 00:22:31.960 --> 00:22:37.440 but if he's listening, I don't have anything to say. 323 00:22:37.759 --> 00:22:44.519 But the second individual, Caesar, is a terrific human being, 324 00:22:44.799 --> 00:22:47.400 and he puts her into the car and they go 325 00:22:47.640 --> 00:22:55.160 to the to a local airstrip. And that's really where 326 00:22:56.400 --> 00:23:00.640 I feel that the police really, you know, there is 327 00:23:00.720 --> 00:23:03.640 so much attention. I was thinking about this today, Dan, 328 00:23:04.519 --> 00:23:08.079 There are so much attention today about police officers not 329 00:23:08.200 --> 00:23:15.200 doing their job and so forth. Well, these police officers 330 00:23:15.400 --> 00:23:23.599 in Stanislaus County, California were fantastic and they were able 331 00:23:23.839 --> 00:23:31.960 to not only rush her to the hospital to save 332 00:23:32.039 --> 00:23:39.000 her life, but the detective on the case, his name 333 00:23:39.079 --> 00:23:45.240 was Brishers, was able to not only interview her, but 334 00:23:45.359 --> 00:23:49.880 he used hypnosis in order to get her to recall 335 00:23:50.000 --> 00:23:56.240 certain details which would eventually help convict Singleton. And you know, 336 00:23:56.400 --> 00:23:59.200 as I'm reading this, I'm reading this, I wrote it. 337 00:23:59.519 --> 00:24:04.799 You know, I'm thinking, you know what, what's going on? 338 00:24:04.880 --> 00:24:07.519 You know this, This is the kind of story that 339 00:24:07.720 --> 00:24:13.480 needs to be told because so much attention has been 340 00:24:13.640 --> 00:24:18.839 focused on the negativity regarding police officers. But this is 341 00:24:18.880 --> 00:24:23.839 a detective, and this guy is wonderful, and so are 342 00:24:23.880 --> 00:24:30.359 these the detectives at this police department, and and and 343 00:24:30.640 --> 00:24:38.599 so Mary Vincent is able to give Lieutenant Brisher's a 344 00:24:38.799 --> 00:24:46.119 description of our assailant, and they get a fantastic police 345 00:24:46.240 --> 00:24:52.119 artist to do a you know, a composite which they 346 00:24:52.240 --> 00:24:56.400 put out over the wires, and you know, and it's 347 00:24:56.519 --> 00:24:59.240 like when you know, as again as I was reading 348 00:24:59.279 --> 00:25:04.160 it today, going you know this, I don't know if 349 00:25:04.160 --> 00:25:07.079 they still do this stuff today, Dan, I honestly don't know. 350 00:25:07.799 --> 00:25:11.200 You know. All I can tell you is these cops 351 00:25:11.240 --> 00:25:17.359 were fantastic and they saved this girl's life and then 352 00:25:17.400 --> 00:25:19.480 they were eventually able to get the bad guy. 353 00:25:21.880 --> 00:25:23.920 Now you talk about and again this is in the 354 00:25:24.039 --> 00:25:28.920 last few episodes we talked about some incredible efforts to 355 00:25:29.039 --> 00:25:33.839 bring in hypnosis into the mix. And yeah, not only 356 00:25:33.920 --> 00:25:36.200 did this, not only this fifteen year old have the 357 00:25:36.200 --> 00:25:39.720 wherewithal to remember important details like that he was a 358 00:25:39.799 --> 00:25:42.599 merchant marine that he had a first aid kit in 359 00:25:42.720 --> 00:25:45.799 the window that he had another house in Reno, Nevada, 360 00:25:46.240 --> 00:25:48.920 and then they put her under And it's amazing what 361 00:25:49.039 --> 00:25:52.119 you chronicle. The information that they did get they didn't 362 00:25:52.160 --> 00:25:54.880 know the value of at that time, but they still again, 363 00:25:55.559 --> 00:26:00.480 these dedicated cops were incensed over this and were out raged, 364 00:26:00.519 --> 00:26:04.079 and so even more so they worked with some dedication 365 00:26:04.240 --> 00:26:07.400 to try to solve this. And Todd Mack did a 366 00:26:07.480 --> 00:26:10.920 fantastic job. And so the neighbor, a neighbor that had 367 00:26:11.000 --> 00:26:13.880 lived in San Pueblo said, you know, it took her 368 00:26:13.880 --> 00:26:15.880 a couple of days to come to the decision, but 369 00:26:16.000 --> 00:26:18.599 she called the police and said, I think this is 370 00:26:18.680 --> 00:26:23.279 my neighbor and take it from there. What how much 371 00:26:23.359 --> 00:26:27.519 information they got from Mary, and again traumatized as she was, 372 00:26:27.680 --> 00:26:31.720 was still cooperating with the police and detective for shears. 373 00:26:32.400 --> 00:26:35.160 But as you say, the break in the case comes 374 00:26:35.240 --> 00:26:38.480 from again that good work, from that description and what 375 00:26:38.640 --> 00:26:40.440 do the police do with this tip? 376 00:26:42.000 --> 00:26:45.480 Well, what happened? You know what? You know what really 377 00:26:45.599 --> 00:26:51.079 gets me? You know I I you know, I in 378 00:26:51.200 --> 00:26:54.839 my generation, Dan Simmy Davis Junior would go on TV shows. 379 00:26:55.039 --> 00:26:57.839 Here I go going off the topic. I realized that, 380 00:26:58.480 --> 00:27:01.720 and he'd always say something really terrific about the host. 381 00:27:02.119 --> 00:27:05.440 What gets me is that I want all of our 382 00:27:05.519 --> 00:27:11.359 listeners to understand how you really absorb the information that 383 00:27:11.519 --> 00:27:16.880 you read and ask incredibly intelligent questions. Okay, you can. 384 00:27:17.000 --> 00:27:18.839 You can give me five dollars afterwards, and if you 385 00:27:18.880 --> 00:27:24.200 want to, it can be Canadian. So anyway, okay, now 386 00:27:24.279 --> 00:27:30.119 here's the thing. What happens is is this this this felam. 387 00:27:30.279 --> 00:27:36.799 Mister Mac does a sketch of the bad guy and 388 00:27:36.920 --> 00:27:40.680 it goes out and a woman in California sees it. 389 00:27:41.880 --> 00:27:43.519 We're talking a lot in California and says, you know, 390 00:27:43.640 --> 00:27:46.880 that looks like Larry Singleton and he used to be 391 00:27:47.000 --> 00:27:56.079 my my, my neighbor. Okay, And simultaneously for Shears, who 392 00:27:56.119 --> 00:27:58.200 has been tru I mean, this is unbelievable to me. 393 00:27:58.319 --> 00:28:01.519 I mean, this is like Sherlock Holmes, the Rashers. The 394 00:28:01.640 --> 00:28:08.960 detective has been trained in forensic hypnosis, so he hypnotizes 395 00:28:09.039 --> 00:28:12.759 her and what he does, I mean, it's just what 396 00:28:12.880 --> 00:28:16.880 he does is he gets to recall the events in 397 00:28:17.000 --> 00:28:22.680 the third person, so she's not traumatized. And what she 398 00:28:22.880 --> 00:28:27.359 remembers is that when she went to Singleton's house, and 399 00:28:27.480 --> 00:28:30.359 again she doesn't know his name at this point. She 400 00:28:30.559 --> 00:28:32.480 just knows he's a merchant Marine because that's what he 401 00:28:32.559 --> 00:28:35.920