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No purchase necessary void, We're prohibited 28 00:00:56.320 --> 00:00:58.759 by law eighteen plus terms and conditions apply. 29 00:00:58.960 --> 00:01:00.240 See website for details. 30 00:01:08.120 --> 00:01:11.519 You are now listening to True Murder, the most shocking 31 00:01:11.640 --> 00:01:14.640 killers in true crime history and the authors that have 32 00:01:14.760 --> 00:01:22.000 written about them. Gasey, Bundy, Dahmer, The Nightstalker BTK. Every 33 00:01:22.079 --> 00:01:25.719 week another fascinating author talking about the most shocking and 34 00:01:25.840 --> 00:01:30.319 infamous killers in true crime history. True Murder with your host, 35 00:01:30.760 --> 00:01:33.840 journalist and author Dan Zupansky. 36 00:01:42.159 --> 00:01:46.879 Good evening. Drawing on media reports, interviews, and court records, 37 00:01:47.400 --> 00:01:50.719 this book recounts the stories of women bank robbers in 38 00:01:50.799 --> 00:01:54.280 the United States from the time of the Revolutionary War 39 00:01:54.719 --> 00:01:59.519 to the present, ranging from sensational to poign it to comical. 40 00:02:00.079 --> 00:02:05.519 Heists of frontier outlaws, gun malls, insurrectionists, housewives, grandma's and 41 00:02:05.599 --> 00:02:10.439 young mothers literally robbing or pamps are narrated as part 42 00:02:10.520 --> 00:02:14.159 of the social history of women in America. The book 43 00:02:14.199 --> 00:02:16.719 that we're featuring this evening is Put the Money in 44 00:02:16.879 --> 00:02:20.439 My Purse, A History of Female bank Robbers, with my 45 00:02:20.639 --> 00:02:25.199 special guest, journalist and author Judith A. Yates. Welcome back 46 00:02:25.199 --> 00:02:27.919 to the program and thank you for this interview. Judith A. 47 00:02:28.360 --> 00:02:30.879 Yates, Hey, Dan, Hey you Dren. Thank you for having 48 00:02:30.919 --> 00:02:32.680 me on this show. I love your show. So I'm 49 00:02:32.719 --> 00:02:33.280 glad to be here. 50 00:02:33.560 --> 00:02:36.439 Thank you very much. I love you having on, having 51 00:02:36.520 --> 00:02:39.039 you on. Thank you very much for joining us tonight 52 00:02:39.439 --> 00:02:43.039 with this incredible book about female bank robbers, very very interesting. 53 00:02:44.080 --> 00:02:47.159 Let's talk about the impetus why you decided. You've been 54 00:02:47.240 --> 00:02:53.240 involved in writing about female criminals for many, many years 55 00:02:53.319 --> 00:02:57.719 and lecturing about some of the issues facing women. Let's 56 00:02:57.800 --> 00:03:00.680 talk about what was the impetus for this book and 57 00:03:01.319 --> 00:03:03.919 some of the contents, some of the things you explore 58 00:03:04.280 --> 00:03:04.840 in this book. 59 00:03:05.120 --> 00:03:07.960 Okay, Well, I was reading a study by the FBI 60 00:03:08.080 --> 00:03:11.360 on bank robbing statistics, and I wondered, as a female 61 00:03:11.439 --> 00:03:15.840 and as a criminologist who writes in studies on female perpetrators, 62 00:03:16.240 --> 00:03:19.879 I wondered about female bank robbers, and, like a lot 63 00:03:19.960 --> 00:03:21.879 of things that get me in trouble, I thought, I 64 00:03:21.960 --> 00:03:26.599 have an idea. And I've researched and written about female 65 00:03:26.719 --> 00:03:30.240 murder and female crime for so many years. Like you said, 66 00:03:30.840 --> 00:03:34.159 bank robberies not so much. And I got to researching 67 00:03:34.280 --> 00:03:38.240 and there aren't any books specifically on female bank robbers 68 00:03:38.280 --> 00:03:40.479 as a whole. Now you're going to find all kinds 69 00:03:40.520 --> 00:03:43.879 of books on the Patty Hurst case, which I'm well 70 00:03:44.000 --> 00:03:46.159 versed in and I can tell you anything about Bonnie 71 00:03:46.199 --> 00:03:48.919 Park that you care to know. So I just kind 72 00:03:48.960 --> 00:03:52.560 of just threw myself into it, and along the way, 73 00:03:52.639 --> 00:03:55.000 the book is sort of a journey, and you're taken 74 00:03:55.120 --> 00:03:59.159 from the first documented bank robbery by a female, which 75 00:03:59.199 --> 00:04:01.840 happened in eighteen ninety seven, to modern times. 76 00:04:02.240 --> 00:04:05.240 So it's a history and a memoir of sorts. And 77 00:04:05.680 --> 00:04:07.479 along the storyline. 78 00:04:06.879 --> 00:04:10.080 There's a discussion of what life was like for women 79 00:04:10.319 --> 00:04:17.160 during each time period, economically, socially, politically, because that impacted 80 00:04:17.399 --> 00:04:21.319 a woman's role in history and in bank robbery. And 81 00:04:21.399 --> 00:04:25.120 I thought it was sort of an interesting way to 82 00:04:25.680 --> 00:04:29.600 sort of explain their crime, because really crime is a 83 00:04:29.680 --> 00:04:33.720 reflection of society, which is a reflection of crime. 84 00:04:34.199 --> 00:04:38.879 Right now, talk about some of the contents to basically 85 00:04:39.040 --> 00:04:43.879 demonstrate or illustrate the expanse of this book. What is 86 00:04:43.959 --> 00:04:46.240 all covered? You say, it starts off from the very 87 00:04:46.319 --> 00:04:51.000 first bank robber to modern times. So as you put 88 00:04:51.079 --> 00:04:53.800 in the contents in the chapter titles, tell us some 89 00:04:53.959 --> 00:04:56.160 of the contents that are covered in this book. 90 00:04:56.839 --> 00:05:00.639 Well, I took it from the very first documented robbery 91 00:05:00.959 --> 00:05:03.480 that I could find. I took it way back to 92 00:05:03.560 --> 00:05:05.800 the eighteen hundreds, which was a lot of fun because 93 00:05:05.839 --> 00:05:10.519 I've always been interested in wild West outlaws, and I 94 00:05:10.759 --> 00:05:15.199 brought it forward to the most turbulent periods in law 95 00:05:15.319 --> 00:05:18.800 enforcement and criminal justice. Took it to the nineteen twenties, 96 00:05:18.879 --> 00:05:23.160 the Roaring twenties, and sort of fast forwarded it to 97 00:05:24.439 --> 00:05:27.480 the fifties and the sixties, And of course the nineteen 98 00:05:27.519 --> 00:05:32.560 seventies were very turbulent time for law enforcement, what with 99 00:05:32.639 --> 00:05:36.720 the domestic terrorism going on, the Vietnam War happening, the 100 00:05:37.199 --> 00:05:41.000 time where we were sort of becoming mistrustful of the government, 101 00:05:41.120 --> 00:05:44.199 and we were educating ourselves on what was happening with 102 00:05:44.319 --> 00:05:47.600 the government, and you know, wait a minute, maybe it's 103 00:05:47.839 --> 00:05:52.040 you know, maybe it's not going as as smooth as 104 00:05:52.120 --> 00:05:54.439 we thought, and we need to start questioning who's in 105 00:05:54.600 --> 00:05:58.560 leadership these days, and turned it and kept rolling it 106 00:05:58.759 --> 00:06:02.120 into modern times. And why are women, you know, robbing 107 00:06:02.240 --> 00:06:04.759 banks during modern times? And what are banks doing now 108 00:06:05.399 --> 00:06:06.920 to prevent these sort. 109 00:06:06.720 --> 00:06:09.079 Of robberies, because you know, back in the day, you 110 00:06:09.120 --> 00:06:09.920 could get away. 111 00:06:09.759 --> 00:06:12.959 With thousands and thousands of dollars, whereas today the average 112 00:06:13.000 --> 00:06:16.639 take is fifteen hundred. And what is the difference between 113 00:06:16.759 --> 00:06:20.240 women robbing and the eighteen hundreds, nineteen fifties, all the 114 00:06:20.279 --> 00:06:23.319 way up to now why were they robbing a bank? 115 00:06:23.879 --> 00:06:24.040 You know? 116 00:06:24.360 --> 00:06:26.439 Was it to get fast cash, was it to. 117 00:06:26.759 --> 00:06:32.000 Fund you know, some kind of important idealism, or was 118 00:06:32.079 --> 00:06:35.720 it just just pay a bill? So I'm breaking up 119 00:06:35.759 --> 00:06:39.279 the book in those time periods from you know, wild 120 00:06:39.319 --> 00:06:43.600 West and cowboys and cowgirls, up to the gun malls, 121 00:06:44.160 --> 00:06:47.399 and then to the fifties where women were figuring out 122 00:06:47.439 --> 00:06:51.959 their roles in societies, up to where we saw the 123 00:06:52.279 --> 00:06:55.079 Patty Hurst era, really what I call the you know, 124 00:06:55.160 --> 00:06:58.439 the bank robbers darling up to modern times. 125 00:06:59.319 --> 00:07:04.680 You talk about the first bank robber recorded bank robber official, 126 00:07:05.000 --> 00:07:08.720 which was Cora Hubbard. Tell us about the first lady 127 00:07:08.800 --> 00:07:11.000 of bank robbery as you call her and as others 128 00:07:11.040 --> 00:07:11.519 have called her. 129 00:07:11.920 --> 00:07:14.199 Oh well, Coorra was an interesting individual. 130 00:07:14.920 --> 00:07:18.079 I liked her because she is just this tough, scrappy, 131 00:07:18.519 --> 00:07:23.000 little tiny woman that lived on the plains. 132 00:07:23.480 --> 00:07:27.560 She was married once and he was very abusive and 133 00:07:27.680 --> 00:07:28.480 she left him. 134 00:07:28.959 --> 00:07:33.040 Now, back in those days, there wasn't much left for 135 00:07:33.160 --> 00:07:35.439 a female to do, not a lot of chisses. 136 00:07:36.120 --> 00:07:40.800 And she came from a farming family. The mother died early. 137 00:07:40.839 --> 00:07:47.199 And she was left, of course, to ranch, and she 138 00:07:47.560 --> 00:07:51.279 hooked up with another man, and her brother lived nearby. 139 00:07:51.519 --> 00:07:54.279 So they've got this ranch that they're trying to hold together. 140 00:07:54.959 --> 00:07:57.279 And they have a man come to the ranch to 141 00:07:57.399 --> 00:07:59.759 work on the ranch with them, and he starts talking 142 00:08:00.040 --> 00:08:02.560 out bank robbery. Now, of course, bank robbery back in 143 00:08:02.600 --> 00:08:05.959 the day also meant train robbery, because the banks used 144 00:08:06.000 --> 00:08:09.199 the train to move the gold and the money and 145 00:08:09.240 --> 00:08:13.199 the buyings from place to place. And everybody's all in 146 00:08:13.360 --> 00:08:18.720 the idea, and then the husband and one of the 147 00:08:19.040 --> 00:08:21.360 guys in the group says, you know what, this isn't 148 00:08:21.399 --> 00:08:24.040 such a good idea, and they back out, and Cora 149 00:08:24.199 --> 00:08:26.319 gets mad and she says, I will not live with 150 00:08:26.360 --> 00:08:29.319 the damn coward. And she's all about it. I mean, 151 00:08:29.759 --> 00:08:34.759 she's in the forefront, you know. And she chops off 152 00:08:34.840 --> 00:08:38.000 all her hair and dresses like a man as part 153 00:08:38.200 --> 00:08:41.600 of her disguise and as part of this robbery, which 154 00:08:41.679 --> 00:08:44.679 I found interesting because you've had these folks like of 155 00:08:44.759 --> 00:08:48.360 course Bell Star and Pearl Hart and these kind of 156 00:08:48.519 --> 00:08:52.600 folks that everybody knew was a female and was committing crimes, 157 00:08:53.360 --> 00:08:58.519 and Cora dresses like a man. Now here's what I 158 00:08:58.720 --> 00:09:03.759 found interesting. Was the newspapers. Of course, they got caught, 159 00:09:04.039 --> 00:09:08.440 made a huge deal out of Coora dressing like a man, 160 00:09:08.960 --> 00:09:12.120 and in their words, acted like a man. She could shoot, 161 00:09:12.320 --> 00:09:18.399 she could ride, she cussed, she smoked cigars and chewed chaw. 162 00:09:19.039 --> 00:09:26.799 Fast forward to robberies of today, where a female disguises 163 00:09:26.879 --> 00:09:30.360 herself as a man. That also makes the news first 164 00:09:30.360 --> 00:09:33.960 and foremost dressed like a man. So I think that's 165 00:09:34.080 --> 00:09:36.840 interesting now. Of course, back then, the newspapers and the 166 00:09:36.919 --> 00:09:40.080 eighteen hundreds, they were written with very florid pros and 167 00:09:40.360 --> 00:09:44.120 they contained a lot of opinions. So the opinions wrote 168 00:09:44.559 --> 00:09:47.399 of Cora was that she was very coarse, She was 169 00:09:47.519 --> 00:09:51.799 not attractive, she was dark skinned. She resembled an Indian woman, 170 00:09:52.960 --> 00:09:59.480 which back then was not a good thing to be, they, 171 00:10:00.000 --> 00:10:02.440 I wrote of her now, she was glad to talk 172 00:10:02.519 --> 00:10:06.519 to the press. And they asked her when she robbed bank, 173 00:10:06.639 --> 00:10:08.759 you know, they said, were you scared? And she said, 174 00:10:09.360 --> 00:10:11.480 hell no, and I'd do it again. I'd shoot up 175 00:10:11.480 --> 00:10:13.679 the whole damn town if I got a chance. So 176 00:10:13.799 --> 00:10:14.679 she was fearless. 177 00:10:15.200 --> 00:10:18.960 She was fearless, you say. Early on, a lot of 178 00:10:19.039 --> 00:10:21.120 the stories in this book, most of the stories in 179 00:10:21.200 --> 00:10:25.200 this book. The media takes real liberties with facts and 180 00:10:25.320 --> 00:10:28.440 always and goes out of their way to demonize these women, 181 00:10:29.440 --> 00:10:30.919 don't they They really. 182 00:10:30.799 --> 00:10:33.440 Do, And I thought that was interesting too, you know. 183 00:10:33.679 --> 00:10:37.559 They it's almost like, for example, you know, back in 184 00:10:37.600 --> 00:10:41.639 their roaring twenties or during this time period, Jay Edgar 185 00:10:41.759 --> 00:10:47.639 Hoover was one to really demonize these people, and he 186 00:10:47.919 --> 00:10:51.399 did it with mab Barker. Now, mab Barker never robbed 187 00:10:51.399 --> 00:10:54.600 a bank. I only mentioned her and Bonnie Parker because 188 00:10:55.279 --> 00:10:59.440 they were always associated with bank robbery, so I wanted 189 00:10:59.480 --> 00:11:03.600 to put those myths to bed. But what Hoover was 190 00:11:03.759 --> 00:11:09.440 doing was he was demonizing these petty criminals so that 191 00:11:09.559 --> 00:11:13.399 when his new FBI caught them, they were really made 192 00:11:13.440 --> 00:11:16.519 to look like the heroes. So it was, okay, we 193 00:11:16.720 --> 00:11:19.960 can't catch these really bad eggs, but we can catch 194 00:11:20.080 --> 00:11:23.879 these smaller eggs, and we'll make these smaller eggs look 195 00:11:23.919 --> 00:11:25.960 like really bad guys, so we'll. 196 00:11:25.759 --> 00:11:26.360 Come out the hero. 197 00:11:27.120 --> 00:11:28.960 And I think that's kind of where it started with 198 00:11:30.159 --> 00:11:34.200 Jay Edgar's you know, lionizing these these you know, I mean, 199 00:11:34.519 --> 00:11:38.440 mab Barker was just this chunky old woman that spent 200 00:11:38.519 --> 00:11:40.759 the money that her boys made. 201 00:11:40.600 --> 00:11:41.759 When they robbed the banks. 202 00:11:42.480 --> 00:11:45.200 You know, she went to the moving picture shows while 203 00:11:45.240 --> 00:11:48.000 they planned the banks, and she helped tighter boys because 204 00:11:48.000 --> 00:11:48.840 she loved her kids. 205 00:11:48.960 --> 00:11:52.080 And that's basically all she was really guilty of. 206 00:11:52.399 --> 00:11:55.159 But you know, in Jay Edgar Hoover's eyes and on 207 00:11:55.279 --> 00:11:57.759 the paper boys, she was just this wild hell cat 208 00:11:57.879 --> 00:12:00.759 that was just vicious and wild and. 209 00:12:00.960 --> 00:12:05.279 You know, gun total bloody mama. And I kind of 210 00:12:05.320 --> 00:12:07.799 think that's you know, that might where it had come from, 211 00:12:08.360 --> 00:12:09.960 is that's when it started. 212 00:12:10.600 --> 00:12:15.600 You talk about that the vast majority of bank robbery 213 00:12:15.919 --> 00:12:19.919 is exclusive to men, so this is very very rare. 214 00:12:20.360 --> 00:12:22.200 Yet at some point in the book you talk about 215 00:12:22.320 --> 00:12:26.480 that it's a growing trend in America. Let's get back 216 00:12:26.559 --> 00:12:30.919 to the wild wild West and a famous story about Eda, 217 00:12:31.159 --> 00:12:34.559 which the media called her but ethel Place and the 218 00:12:34.679 --> 00:12:37.320 Sundance Kid and Butch Cassidy. 219 00:12:37.519 --> 00:12:40.720 Yeah, and she's an interesting person too, because there's just 220 00:12:40.919 --> 00:12:44.440 not a whole lot known about her prior to her 221 00:12:45.080 --> 00:12:46.399 hooking up with Sun Dance. 222 00:12:46.879 --> 00:12:49.159 You know, some say that she was a school teacher 223 00:12:49.600 --> 00:12:50.120 that you know. 224 00:12:50.279 --> 00:12:53.559 Turned bad. Some say that she was a prostitute, which 225 00:12:54.279 --> 00:12:58.080 might be the real story that hooked up with Sundance. 226 00:12:58.320 --> 00:13:02.120 But nonetheless, she and Sunday were definitely an item, and 227 00:13:02.799 --> 00:13:06.919 she was only one of two women who knew where 228 00:13:07.039 --> 00:13:11.120 Robert s rust was located. And that's really something to say, 229 00:13:11.240 --> 00:13:14.639 because you know, this was a man's world. She was 230 00:13:14.679 --> 00:13:20.240 stepping into a man's world, and she was still very 231 00:13:20.360 --> 00:13:22.799 much I think, do you understand what I say when 232 00:13:22.840 --> 00:13:25.399 I say she was very much a woman. She dressed 233 00:13:25.759 --> 00:13:29.960 a very ladylike, she acted very lady like. She loved 234 00:13:30.039 --> 00:13:33.840 pretty things and was a very attractive woman. But she 235 00:13:34.000 --> 00:13:37.480 was an expert horseman and she could fire a crack shot, 236 00:13:40.039 --> 00:13:44.759 very educated, very well spoken. So you kind of wonder, okay, 237 00:13:44.840 --> 00:13:49.519 where exactly did she come from? And you know, I'd 238 00:13:49.519 --> 00:13:51.240 love to go back in time and saw that mystery. 239 00:13:51.279 --> 00:13:55.039 But nonetheless, she and Sundance did hook up, and which 240 00:13:55.159 --> 00:13:59.480 Cassidy of course, being Sundance's pal, and they trusted her 241 00:14:00.000 --> 00:14:04.080 exclusively so that she knew where Roberts roost was and 242 00:14:04.120 --> 00:14:05.799 she knew how to keep her mouth shut, and she 243 00:14:05.919 --> 00:14:07.320 did it because she loves Sundance. 244 00:14:07.639 --> 00:14:12.000 It's very interesting when people's most people's idea of what 245 00:14:12.240 --> 00:14:15.360 really happened is based on butch casting and the Sundance Kid, 246 00:14:15.519 --> 00:14:19.559 Robert Redford and Paul Newman. And what was interesting in 247 00:14:19.679 --> 00:14:25.600 the true story is that the charms of her Charms 248 00:14:25.759 --> 00:14:29.919 and Sundance, the Sundance Kid and Butch Cassidy on this 249 00:14:30.159 --> 00:14:35.000 Shariff Humphries. So Sheriff Humphreys is employed to go get 250 00:14:35.080 --> 00:14:39.200 them arrest them in Argentina, but he's charmed by these 251 00:14:39.240 --> 00:14:42.840 people and so warns them and hence loses his job, 252 00:14:42.919 --> 00:14:46.919 and they escape very right, and he's getting. 253 00:14:46.679 --> 00:14:48.720 Sweet on her. I mean, she was a very pretty woman. 254 00:14:48.799 --> 00:14:51.200 If you look at her photo, and you can even 255 00:14:51.399 --> 00:14:55.840 see she has this aura of like you said, of 256 00:14:56.000 --> 00:15:00.879 charm about her and grace, and there are only two 257 00:15:01.120 --> 00:15:04.960 photos known of her, but you can still see it 258 00:15:05.080 --> 00:15:08.639 in her. And of course they were good looking guys 259 00:15:08.720 --> 00:15:13.080 and they probably had the same same are about them. 260 00:15:14.000 --> 00:15:17.120 And he sent to go arrest them, but instead he 261 00:15:17.240 --> 00:15:19.440 gives them the one up and off they go, and 262 00:15:20.360 --> 00:15:24.000 that's when she assists in robbing the bank and they. 263 00:15:24.000 --> 00:15:24.600 Get away with it. 264 00:15:24.919 --> 00:15:28.399 You're write in the book that things change in World 265 00:15:28.480 --> 00:15:31.720 War two, and you talk about that it's called a 266 00:15:31.840 --> 00:15:37.919 turning point. Gun girls, child brides, and showgirls. So tell 267 00:15:38.000 --> 00:15:40.840 us how everything changed in World War Two and women's 268 00:15:40.960 --> 00:15:44.000 role changed and how that led to bank robbery. 269 00:15:45.000 --> 00:15:49.679 Okay, okay, well, you've got the men going off to war, 270 00:15:50.320 --> 00:15:54.559 which at the same time, this is leaving jobs open. 271 00:15:55.000 --> 00:15:57.679 Now we've got to have somebody working those jobs because 272 00:15:57.720 --> 00:15:59.480 we've got to keep it busy on the home front. 273 00:16:00.039 --> 00:16:04.399 Plus we have to have airplanes, we've got to have weapons, 274 00:16:04.639 --> 00:16:05.879 we've got to have ammunition. 275 00:16:06.039 --> 00:16:07.600 Well, who are going to fill those roles? 276 00:16:08.159 --> 00:16:12.039 Women are stepping into these roles and they do everything 277 00:16:12.320 --> 00:16:17.279 from create victory gardens, to fly. 278 00:16:17.320 --> 00:16:22.399 Airplanes, to test ammunition. I mean, women step up and 279 00:16:22.519 --> 00:16:25.320 they have learned that there's a new role for them 280 00:16:25.440 --> 00:16:29.919 out there. They don't have to be mommies and wives 281 00:16:30.159 --> 00:16:33.320 and cooking dinner and keeping the house pretty. They can 282 00:16:33.399 --> 00:16:36.879 go out there and they can repair an airplane. They 283 00:16:36.919 --> 00:16:39.759 can join the military. They can go to a. 284 00:16:39.879 --> 00:16:43.720 Factory and repair a machine that's five times the size 285 00:16:43.759 --> 00:16:45.759 of the house that they go home to. So they're 286 00:16:45.840 --> 00:16:50.279 learning all of these new roles and with this comes in. 287 00:16:50.240 --> 00:16:51.440 A new found freedom. 288 00:16:52.759 --> 00:16:56.159 And with this new found freedom, as I explained, you 289 00:16:56.240 --> 00:16:59.519 know crime being a reflection of society, being a reflection 290 00:16:59.639 --> 00:17:03.759 of chrome, well, you know it's going to bleed over 291 00:17:03.879 --> 00:17:07.319 into the criminal side of life. So here come the 292 00:17:07.480 --> 00:17:11.920 men back from war, and they're not going to say, 293 00:17:12.200 --> 00:17:14.240 you know, society is not going to say, oh, well. 294 00:17:14.160 --> 00:17:15.480 We don't really have a job for you. 295 00:17:15.839 --> 00:17:18.799 They're going to boot these women out because we don't 296 00:17:18.799 --> 00:17:23.480 have equal rights amendments yet. And it's perfectly legal to 297 00:17:23.720 --> 00:17:27.720 tell a woman, well, a man needs that job, see you. Oh, 298 00:17:27.920 --> 00:17:29.240 by the way, he's going to make a lot more 299 00:17:29.279 --> 00:17:31.960 money than you in that job, so see ya. 300 00:17:32.519 --> 00:17:34.160 And so she's going to get booted out. 301 00:17:34.200 --> 00:17:36.359 I mean, a woman couldn't even serve in the military 302 00:17:36.799 --> 00:17:40.079 if she were married and or had a child, So 303 00:17:40.680 --> 00:17:43.319 what is there to do. Then we have, you know, 304 00:17:43.599 --> 00:17:46.960 guys coming back from the war that are going to 305 00:17:47.160 --> 00:17:50.119 have PTSD, which they didn't know what was. You know, 306 00:17:50.279 --> 00:17:53.799 back then, they didn't have any resources to speak for 307 00:17:53.920 --> 00:17:58.640 these fellas. And this means problems in the home front. 308 00:17:59.119 --> 00:18:03.599 So here are these you know, suffering this domestic violence 309 00:18:03.599 --> 00:18:05.160 at home, which, by the way, they don't have a 310 00:18:05.240 --> 00:18:08.079 word for that yet either, because they didn't have domestic 311 00:18:08.200 --> 00:18:12.759 violence shelters for women until the nineteen eighties. So you know, 312 00:18:13.000 --> 00:18:14.880 a woman's going to have to have money or some 313 00:18:15.079 --> 00:18:18.119 kind of a financial nest to escape. 314 00:18:18.640 --> 00:18:20.680 How are you going to do that if you can't 315 00:18:20.759 --> 00:18:21.680 land a job, if. 316 00:18:21.640 --> 00:18:23.960 You don't have a nest day, because the man's going 317 00:18:24.039 --> 00:18:25.200 to control the finances. 318 00:18:25.640 --> 00:18:29.119 You talk about also as well, the advent of cameras, 319 00:18:29.599 --> 00:18:36.160 the first cameras in banks, despite being grainy photographs. You 320 00:18:36.279 --> 00:18:39.359 talk about the first bank robbery caught on camera. 321 00:18:39.720 --> 00:18:42.720 Yes, and that's a really interesting story. I spoke to 322 00:18:42.799 --> 00:18:46.839 the folks at the museum where that camera is being held, 323 00:18:47.519 --> 00:18:48.920 and as soon as I can, I'm going to go 324 00:18:49.039 --> 00:18:49.799 up there and look at it. 325 00:18:49.880 --> 00:18:52.440 But this camera had. 326 00:18:52.359 --> 00:18:58.000 Been used during military times and bank robbery was on 327 00:18:58.200 --> 00:19:01.759 the rise, and they got to thinking, you know, why 328 00:19:01.759 --> 00:19:04.440 don't we use this in banks to catch robbers? 329 00:19:04.839 --> 00:19:08.039 So they decided to try it in this one bank. 330 00:19:08.279 --> 00:19:11.400 They put it up in the walls. Now we're talking 331 00:19:11.400 --> 00:19:14.640 about this huge, cumbersome, blocky thing with all these wires, 332 00:19:14.759 --> 00:19:18.920 and you know, it was just a pain to put 333 00:19:19.079 --> 00:19:22.240 up in the wall and a pain to remove. And 334 00:19:23.200 --> 00:19:26.480 they were, you know, the officials first saying Okay, we're 335 00:19:26.480 --> 00:19:28.240 gonna put it up in the wall. We're gonna set 336 00:19:28.279 --> 00:19:31.720 it up, we're gonna put the buttons down by the 337 00:19:32.079 --> 00:19:36.799 registers to I'm sorry that the teller's registers to push 338 00:19:36.839 --> 00:19:40.440 a button to start recording, and tomorrow we're going to 339 00:19:40.519 --> 00:19:40.920 come back and. 340 00:19:40.920 --> 00:19:43.279 We're going to test it. So that's what they did. 341 00:19:43.440 --> 00:19:46.839 Well, they didn't have to test it because that next 342 00:19:47.000 --> 00:19:50.720 day they had a do a bank robbers walk in, 343 00:19:51.400 --> 00:19:54.519 wanted them being a female, and they robbed the bank 344 00:19:55.000 --> 00:19:58.920 and they leave. They jump in a car driven by 345 00:19:58.960 --> 00:20:02.599 a female and they take off and what's he Here's 346 00:20:02.640 --> 00:20:05.599 another rub to the story is the woman who pushed 347 00:20:05.799 --> 00:20:10.400 that button to start that camera whirling that made history. 348 00:20:11.000 --> 00:20:15.240 She didn't even hit that button to record the bank robbery. 349 00:20:15.839 --> 00:20:19.039 She hit that button because when the bank robbers walked in, 350 00:20:19.440 --> 00:20:22.559 the man started using the F word and nasty language, 351 00:20:23.000 --> 00:20:25.319 said this was a stick up, and there were some 352 00:20:25.680 --> 00:20:29.599 elderly ladies in the lobby as patrons of the bank, 353 00:20:30.039 --> 00:20:32.839 and the teller got mad and she was like, he 354 00:20:33.039 --> 00:20:35.720 is not going to use that kind of language in 355 00:20:35.839 --> 00:20:38.359 this bank, and she hit the button so the police 356 00:20:38.359 --> 00:20:41.920 could identify him for using that kind of language. And 357 00:20:42.000 --> 00:20:45.200 the next thing, you know, rippling out guns, robbing the place. 358 00:20:45.559 --> 00:20:49.000 How did they get around the grainy photographs because you 359 00:20:49.160 --> 00:20:51.240 write that they were very poor quality. 360 00:20:51.559 --> 00:20:54.519 Oh yeah, if you look at them, they really are. 361 00:20:54.880 --> 00:20:58.640 And you know, there there were several pictures taken and 362 00:20:58.920 --> 00:21:01.759 in the book there's only two out of those several 363 00:21:02.359 --> 00:21:06.599 and honestly, I don't even understand how they got anything 364 00:21:06.680 --> 00:21:10.319 out of those photos. It was truly a gum shoe effort. 365 00:21:10.839 --> 00:21:14.640 They posted those photos, you know, in the media and 366 00:21:14.799 --> 00:21:19.279 asked for assistance, and one by one, by going to 367 00:21:19.440 --> 00:21:22.599 these lunch counters, in the next lunch counter in the 368 00:21:22.759 --> 00:21:23.920 movie house. 369 00:21:23.799 --> 00:21:27.400 Then the place where the girl was renting a room, in. 370 00:21:27.480 --> 00:21:30.039 The place where her friend was, they found out who 371 00:21:30.079 --> 00:21:34.319 the perpetrators were. But it really was I'm thinking that 372 00:21:34.559 --> 00:21:37.880 at the time they were considered good pictures. 373 00:21:37.880 --> 00:21:41.359 And maybe the I were trained. That's the only thing 374 00:21:41.440 --> 00:21:44.319 I can think of, because you know, I was. 375 00:21:44.359 --> 00:21:47.240 Even told these pictures aren't good enough for the book, 376 00:21:47.359 --> 00:21:50.960 but they were all we had to work with, so 377 00:21:51.200 --> 00:21:53.039 and I wanted them in the book because I wanted 378 00:21:53.119 --> 00:21:56.240 to show the readers just you know, they were their history. 379 00:21:56.599 --> 00:21:59.200 That the first photos of a bank robbery and a 380 00:21:59.319 --> 00:22:00.440 female was an involved. 381 00:22:00.599 --> 00:22:05.160 Absolutely. You talk about in this same chapter about Esther 382 00:22:05.519 --> 00:22:09.400 and Patsy Whiting, the family that robs together you know, 383 00:22:09.519 --> 00:22:15.200 stays together. This is a fascinating story encompassing many issues 384 00:22:15.240 --> 00:22:18.160 as well. They are illustrated in this one story. 385 00:22:18.440 --> 00:22:22.680 Right right Esther was a divorced woman, she has some kids. 386 00:22:23.000 --> 00:22:26.079 She's got a son that comes back from the army, 387 00:22:26.160 --> 00:22:28.279 and he's just kind of one of these ne'er dwells 388 00:22:28.920 --> 00:22:33.160 that would rather steal and you know, take other people's 389 00:22:33.279 --> 00:22:36.880 things than make an honest living. And he and his 390 00:22:37.000 --> 00:22:40.920 buddies decide bank robbery is a good idea, and his 391 00:22:41.240 --> 00:22:44.799 little sister helps rob the bank. She tucks her hair 392 00:22:44.920 --> 00:22:47.960 up under a hat and everybody thinks she's a young man, 393 00:22:48.440 --> 00:22:51.559 and his mama drives the getaway car. So it's just 394 00:22:51.640 --> 00:22:54.599 sort of like this whole family affair thing of bank robbing. 395 00:22:55.440 --> 00:23:00.960 And besides robbing banks, he's also a burglar. And when 396 00:23:01.079 --> 00:23:04.079 the sister appears in the newspaper days later, because of 397 00:23:04.160 --> 00:23:07.920 course they're caught, his sister is wearing a coat that 398 00:23:08.079 --> 00:23:11.960 he stole in one of his pargaries. So one of 399 00:23:12.039 --> 00:23:15.640 the women reading the article she says, that's my coat. 400 00:23:16.400 --> 00:23:21.039 And so not only you know, do the readers get 401 00:23:21.079 --> 00:23:23.799