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Speaker 5: You are now listening to True Murder, the most shocking
Speaker 5: killers in true crime history and the authors that have
Speaker 5: written about them. Gasey, Bundy, Dahmer, The Nightstalker BTK. Every
Speaker 5: week another fascinating author talking about the most shocking and
Speaker 5: infamous killers in true crime history. True Murder with your host,
Speaker 5: journalist and author Dan Zupansky.
Speaker 4: Good evening. Drawing on media reports, interviews, and court records,
Speaker 4: this book recounts the stories of women bank robbers in
Speaker 4: the United States from the time of the Revolutionary War
Speaker 4: to the present, ranging from sensational to poign it to comical.
Speaker 4: Heists of frontier outlaws, gun malls, insurrectionists, housewives, grandma's and
Speaker 4: young mothers literally robbing or pamps are narrated as part
Speaker 4: of the social history of women in America. The book
Speaker 4: that we're featuring this evening is Put the Money in
Speaker 4: My Purse, A History of Female bank Robbers, with my
Speaker 4: special guest, journalist and author Judith A. Yates. Welcome back
Speaker 4: to the program and thank you for this interview. Judith A.
Speaker 2: Yates, Hey, Dan, Hey you Dren. Thank you for having
Speaker 2: me on this show. I love your show. So I'm
Speaker 2: glad to be here.
Speaker 4: Thank you very much. I love you having on, having
Speaker 4: you on. Thank you very much for joining us tonight
Speaker 4: with this incredible book about female bank robbers, very very interesting.
Speaker 4: Let's talk about the impetus why you decided. You've been
Speaker 4: involved in writing about female criminals for many, many years
Speaker 4: and lecturing about some of the issues facing women. Let's
Speaker 4: talk about what was the impetus for this book and
Speaker 4: some of the contents, some of the things you explore
Speaker 4: in this book.
Speaker 2: Okay, Well, I was reading a study by the FBI
Speaker 2: on bank robbing statistics, and I wondered, as a female
Speaker 2: and as a criminologist who writes in studies on female perpetrators,
Speaker 2: I wondered about female bank robbers, and, like a lot
Speaker 2: of things that get me in trouble, I thought, I
Speaker 2: have an idea. And I've researched and written about female
Speaker 2: murder and female crime for so many years. Like you said,
Speaker 2: bank robberies not so much. And I got to researching
Speaker 2: and there aren't any books specifically on female bank robbers
Speaker 2: as a whole. Now you're going to find all kinds
Speaker 2: of books on the Patty Hurst case, which I'm well
Speaker 2: versed in and I can tell you anything about Bonnie
Speaker 2: Park that you care to know. So I just kind
Speaker 2: of just threw myself into it, and along the way,
Speaker 2: the book is sort of a journey, and you're taken
Speaker 2: from the first documented bank robbery by a female, which
Speaker 2: happened in eighteen ninety seven, to modern times.
Speaker 6: So it's a history and a memoir of sorts. And
Speaker 6: along the storyline.
Speaker 2: There's a discussion of what life was like for women
Speaker 2: during each time period, economically, socially, politically, because that impacted
Speaker 2: a woman's role in history and in bank robbery. And
Speaker 2: I thought it was sort of an interesting way to
Speaker 2: sort of explain their crime, because really crime is a
Speaker 2: reflection of society, which is a reflection of crime.
Speaker 4: Right now, talk about some of the contents to basically
Speaker 4: demonstrate or illustrate the expanse of this book. What is
Speaker 4: all covered? You say, it starts off from the very
Speaker 4: first bank robber to modern times. So as you put
Speaker 4: in the contents in the chapter titles, tell us some
Speaker 4: of the contents that are covered in this book.
Speaker 2: Well, I took it from the very first documented robbery
Speaker 2: that I could find. I took it way back to
Speaker 2: the eighteen hundreds, which was a lot of fun because
Speaker 2: I've always been interested in wild West outlaws, and I
Speaker 2: brought it forward to the most turbulent periods in law
Speaker 2: enforcement and criminal justice. Took it to the nineteen twenties,
Speaker 2: the Roaring twenties, and sort of fast forwarded it to
Speaker 2: the fifties and the sixties, And of course the nineteen
Speaker 2: seventies were very turbulent time for law enforcement, what with
Speaker 2: the domestic terrorism going on, the Vietnam War happening, the
Speaker 2: time where we were sort of becoming mistrustful of the government,
Speaker 2: and we were educating ourselves on what was happening with
Speaker 2: the government, and you know, wait a minute, maybe it's
Speaker 2: you know, maybe it's not going as as smooth as
Speaker 2: we thought, and we need to start questioning who's in
Speaker 2: leadership these days, and turned it and kept rolling it
Speaker 2: into modern times. And why are women, you know, robbing
Speaker 2: banks during modern times? And what are banks doing now
Speaker 2: to prevent these sort.
Speaker 6: Of robberies, because you know, back in the day, you
Speaker 6: could get away.
Speaker 2: With thousands and thousands of dollars, whereas today the average
Speaker 2: take is fifteen hundred. And what is the difference between
Speaker 2: women robbing and the eighteen hundreds, nineteen fifties, all the
Speaker 2: way up to now why were they robbing a bank?
Speaker 2: You know?
Speaker 6: Was it to get fast cash, was it to.
Speaker 2: Fund you know, some kind of important idealism, or was
Speaker 2: it just just pay a bill? So I'm breaking up
Speaker 2: the book in those time periods from you know, wild
Speaker 2: West and cowboys and cowgirls, up to the gun malls,
Speaker 2: and then to the fifties where women were figuring out
Speaker 2: their roles in societies, up to where we saw the
Speaker 2: Patty Hurst era, really what I call the you know,
Speaker 2: the bank robbers darling up to modern times.
Speaker 4: You talk about the first bank robber recorded bank robber official,
Speaker 4: which was Cora Hubbard. Tell us about the first lady
Speaker 4: of bank robbery as you call her and as others
Speaker 4: have called her.
Speaker 6: Oh well, Coorra was an interesting individual.
Speaker 2: I liked her because she is just this tough, scrappy,
Speaker 2: little tiny woman that lived on the plains.
Speaker 6: She was married once and he was very abusive and
Speaker 6: she left him.
Speaker 2: Now, back in those days, there wasn't much left for
Speaker 2: a female to do, not a lot of chisses.
Speaker 6: And she came from a farming family. The mother died early.
Speaker 2: And she was left, of course, to ranch, and she
Speaker 2: hooked up with another man, and her brother lived nearby.
Speaker 2: So they've got this ranch that they're trying to hold together.
Speaker 2: And they have a man come to the ranch to
Speaker 2: work on the ranch with them, and he starts talking
Speaker 2: out bank robbery. Now, of course, bank robbery back in
Speaker 2: the day also meant train robbery, because the banks used
Speaker 2: the train to move the gold and the money and
Speaker 2: the buyings from place to place. And everybody's all in
Speaker 2: the idea, and then the husband and one of the
Speaker 2: guys in the group says, you know what, this isn't
Speaker 2: such a good idea, and they back out, and Cora
Speaker 2: gets mad and she says, I will not live with
Speaker 2: the damn coward. And she's all about it. I mean,
Speaker 2: she's in the forefront, you know. And she chops off
Speaker 2: all her hair and dresses like a man as part
Speaker 2: of her disguise and as part of this robbery, which
Speaker 2: I found interesting because you've had these folks like of
Speaker 2: course Bell Star and Pearl Hart and these kind of
Speaker 2: folks that everybody knew was a female and was committing crimes,
Speaker 2: and Cora dresses like a man. Now here's what I
Speaker 2: found interesting. Was the newspapers. Of course, they got caught,
Speaker 2: made a huge deal out of Coora dressing like a man,
Speaker 2: and in their words, acted like a man. She could shoot,
Speaker 2: she could ride, she cussed, she smoked cigars and chewed chaw.
Speaker 2: Fast forward to robberies of today, where a female disguises
Speaker 2: herself as a man. That also makes the news first
Speaker 2: and foremost dressed like a man. So I think that's
Speaker 2: interesting now. Of course, back then, the newspapers and the
Speaker 2: eighteen hundreds, they were written with very florid pros and
Speaker 2: they contained a lot of opinions. So the opinions wrote
Speaker 2: of Cora was that she was very coarse, She was
Speaker 2: not attractive, she was dark skinned. She resembled an Indian woman,
Speaker 2: which back then was not a good thing to be, they,
Speaker 2: I wrote of her now, she was glad to talk
Speaker 2: to the press. And they asked her when she robbed bank,
Speaker 2: you know, they said, were you scared? And she said,
Speaker 2: hell no, and I'd do it again. I'd shoot up
Speaker 2: the whole damn town if I got a chance. So
Speaker 2: she was fearless.
Speaker 4: She was fearless, you say. Early on, a lot of
Speaker 4: the stories in this book, most of the stories in
Speaker 4: this book. The media takes real liberties with facts and
Speaker 4: always and goes out of their way to demonize these women,
Speaker 4: don't they They really.
Speaker 6: Do, And I thought that was interesting too, you know.
Speaker 2: They it's almost like, for example, you know, back in
Speaker 2: their roaring twenties or during this time period, Jay Edgar
Speaker 2: Hoover was one to really demonize these people, and he
Speaker 2: did it with mab Barker. Now, mab Barker never robbed
Speaker 2: a bank. I only mentioned her and Bonnie Parker because
Speaker 2: they were always associated with bank robbery, so I wanted
Speaker 2: to put those myths to bed. But what Hoover was
Speaker 2: doing was he was demonizing these petty criminals so that
Speaker 2: when his new FBI caught them, they were really made
Speaker 2: to look like the heroes. So it was, okay, we
Speaker 2: can't catch these really bad eggs, but we can catch
Speaker 2: these smaller eggs, and we'll make these smaller eggs look
Speaker 2: like really bad guys, so we'll.
Speaker 6: Come out the hero.
Speaker 2: And I think that's kind of where it started with
Speaker 2: Jay Edgar's you know, lionizing these these you know, I mean,
Speaker 2: mab Barker was just this chunky old woman that spent
Speaker 2: the money that her boys made.
Speaker 6: When they robbed the banks.
Speaker 2: You know, she went to the moving picture shows while
Speaker 2: they planned the banks, and she helped tighter boys because
Speaker 2: she loved her kids.
Speaker 6: And that's basically all she was really guilty of.
Speaker 2: But you know, in Jay Edgar Hoover's eyes and on
Speaker 2: the paper boys, she was just this wild hell cat
Speaker 2: that was just vicious and wild and.
Speaker 6: You know, gun total bloody mama. And I kind of
Speaker 6: think that's you know, that might where it had come from,
Speaker 6: is that's when it started.
Speaker 4: You talk about that the vast majority of bank robbery
Speaker 4: is exclusive to men, so this is very very rare.
Speaker 4: Yet at some point in the book you talk about
Speaker 4: that it's a growing trend in America. Let's get back
Speaker 4: to the wild wild West and a famous story about Eda,
Speaker 4: which the media called her but ethel Place and the
Speaker 4: Sundance Kid and Butch Cassidy.
Speaker 2: Yeah, and she's an interesting person too, because there's just
Speaker 2: not a whole lot known about her prior to her
Speaker 2: hooking up with Sun Dance.
Speaker 6: You know, some say that she was a school teacher
Speaker 6: that you know.
Speaker 2: Turned bad. Some say that she was a prostitute, which
Speaker 2: might be the real story that hooked up with Sundance.
Speaker 2: But nonetheless, she and Sunday were definitely an item, and
Speaker 2: she was only one of two women who knew where
Speaker 2: Robert s rust was located. And that's really something to say,
Speaker 2: because you know, this was a man's world. She was
Speaker 2: stepping into a man's world, and she was still very
Speaker 2: much I think, do you understand what I say when
Speaker 2: I say she was very much a woman. She dressed
Speaker 2: a very ladylike, she acted very lady like. She loved
Speaker 2: pretty things and was a very attractive woman. But she
Speaker 2: was an expert horseman and she could fire a crack shot,
Speaker 2: very educated, very well spoken. So you kind of wonder, okay,
Speaker 2: where exactly did she come from? And you know, I'd
Speaker 2: love to go back in time and saw that mystery.
Speaker 2: But nonetheless, she and Sundance did hook up, and which
Speaker 2: Cassidy of course, being Sundance's pal, and they trusted her
Speaker 2: exclusively so that she knew where Roberts roost was and
Speaker 2: she knew how to keep her mouth shut, and she
Speaker 2: did it because she loves Sundance.
Speaker 4: It's very interesting when people's most people's idea of what
Speaker 4: really happened is based on butch casting and the Sundance Kid,
Speaker 4: Robert Redford and Paul Newman. And what was interesting in
Speaker 4: the true story is that the charms of her Charms
Speaker 4: and Sundance, the Sundance Kid and Butch Cassidy on this
Speaker 4: Shariff Humphries. So Sheriff Humphreys is employed to go get
Speaker 4: them arrest them in Argentina, but he's charmed by these
Speaker 4: people and so warns them and hence loses his job,
Speaker 4: and they escape very right, and he's getting.
Speaker 6: Sweet on her. I mean, she was a very pretty woman.
Speaker 2: If you look at her photo, and you can even
Speaker 2: see she has this aura of like you said, of
Speaker 2: charm about her and grace, and there are only two
Speaker 2: photos known of her, but you can still see it
Speaker 2: in her. And of course they were good looking guys
Speaker 2: and they probably had the same same are about them.
Speaker 2: And he sent to go arrest them, but instead he
Speaker 2: gives them the one up and off they go, and
Speaker 2: that's when she assists in robbing the bank and they.
Speaker 6: Get away with it.
Speaker 4: You're write in the book that things change in World
Speaker 4: War two, and you talk about that it's called a
Speaker 4: turning point. Gun girls, child brides, and showgirls. So tell
Speaker 4: us how everything changed in World War Two and women's
Speaker 4: role changed and how that led to bank robbery.
Speaker 2: Okay, okay, well, you've got the men going off to war,
Speaker 2: which at the same time, this is leaving jobs open.
Speaker 2: Now we've got to have somebody working those jobs because
Speaker 2: we've got to keep it busy on the home front.
Speaker 2: Plus we have to have airplanes, we've got to have weapons,
Speaker 2: we've got to have ammunition.
Speaker 6: Well, who are going to fill those roles?
Speaker 2: Women are stepping into these roles and they do everything
Speaker 2: from create victory gardens, to fly.
Speaker 6: Airplanes, to test ammunition. I mean, women step up and
Speaker 6: they have learned that there's a new role for them
Speaker 6: out there. They don't have to be mommies and wives
Speaker 6: and cooking dinner and keeping the house pretty. They can
Speaker 6: go out there and they can repair an airplane. They
Speaker 6: can join the military. They can go to a.
Speaker 2: Factory and repair a machine that's five times the size
Speaker 2: of the house that they go home to. So they're
Speaker 2: learning all of these new roles and with this comes in.
Speaker 6: A new found freedom.
Speaker 2: And with this new found freedom, as I explained, you
Speaker 2: know crime being a reflection of society, being a reflection
Speaker 2: of chrome, well, you know it's going to bleed over
Speaker 2: into the criminal side of life. So here come the
Speaker 2: men back from war, and they're not going to say,
Speaker 2: you know, society is not going to say, oh, well.
Speaker 6: We don't really have a job for you.
Speaker 2: They're going to boot these women out because we don't
Speaker 2: have equal rights amendments yet. And it's perfectly legal to
Speaker 2: tell a woman, well, a man needs that job, see you. Oh,
Speaker 2: by the way, he's going to make a lot more
Speaker 2: money than you in that job, so see ya.
Speaker 6: And so she's going to get booted out.
Speaker 2: I mean, a woman couldn't even serve in the military
Speaker 2: if she were married and or had a child, So
Speaker 2: what is there to do. Then we have, you know,
Speaker 2: guys coming back from the war that are going to
Speaker 2: have PTSD, which they didn't know what was. You know,
Speaker 2: back then, they didn't have any resources to speak for
Speaker 2: these fellas. And this means problems in the home front.
Speaker 2: So here are these you know, suffering this domestic violence
Speaker 2: at home, which, by the way, they don't have a
Speaker 2: word for that yet either, because they didn't have domestic
Speaker 2: violence shelters for women until the nineteen eighties. So you know,
Speaker 2: a woman's going to have to have money or some
Speaker 2: kind of a financial nest to escape.
Speaker 6: How are you going to do that if you can't
Speaker 6: land a job, if.
Speaker 2: You don't have a nest day, because the man's going
Speaker 2: to control the finances.
Speaker 4: You talk about also as well, the advent of cameras,
Speaker 4: the first cameras in banks, despite being grainy photographs. You
Speaker 4: talk about the first bank robbery caught on camera.
Speaker 2: Yes, and that's a really interesting story. I spoke to
Speaker 2: the folks at the museum where that camera is being held,
Speaker 2: and as soon as I can, I'm going to go
Speaker 2: up there and look at it.
Speaker 6: But this camera had.
Speaker 2: Been used during military times and bank robbery was on
Speaker 2: the rise, and they got to thinking, you know, why
Speaker 2: don't we use this in banks to catch robbers?
Speaker 6: So they decided to try it in this one bank.
Speaker 2: They put it up in the walls. Now we're talking
Speaker 2: about this huge, cumbersome, blocky thing with all these wires,
Speaker 2: and you know, it was just a pain to put
Speaker 2: up in the wall and a pain to remove. And
Speaker 2: they were, you know, the officials first saying Okay, we're
Speaker 2: gonna put it up in the wall. We're gonna set
Speaker 2: it up, we're gonna put the buttons down by the
Speaker 2: registers to I'm sorry that the teller's registers to push
Speaker 2: a button to start recording, and tomorrow we're going to
Speaker 2: come back and.
Speaker 6: We're going to test it. So that's what they did.
Speaker 2: Well, they didn't have to test it because that next
Speaker 2: day they had a do a bank robbers walk in,
Speaker 2: wanted them being a female, and they robbed the bank
Speaker 2: and they leave. They jump in a car driven by
Speaker 2: a female and they take off and what's he Here's
Speaker 2: another rub to the story is the woman who pushed
Speaker 2: that button to start that camera whirling that made history.
Speaker 2: She didn't even hit that button to record the bank robbery.
Speaker 2: She hit that button because when the bank robbers walked in,
Speaker 2: the man started using the F word and nasty language,
Speaker 2: said this was a stick up, and there were some
Speaker 2: elderly ladies in the lobby as patrons of the bank,
Speaker 2: and the teller got mad and she was like, he
Speaker 2: is not going to use that kind of language in
Speaker 2: this bank, and she hit the button so the police
Speaker 2: could identify him for using that kind of language. And
Speaker 2: the next thing, you know, rippling out guns, robbing the place.
Speaker 4: How did they get around the grainy photographs because you
Speaker 4: write that they were very poor quality.
Speaker 6: Oh yeah, if you look at them, they really are.
Speaker 2: And you know, there there were several pictures taken and
Speaker 2: in the book there's only two out of those several
Speaker 2: and honestly, I don't even understand how they got anything
Speaker 2: out of those photos. It was truly a gum shoe effort.
Speaker 2: They posted those photos, you know, in the media and
Speaker 2: asked for assistance, and one by one, by going to
Speaker 2: these lunch counters, in the next lunch counter in the
Speaker 2: movie house.
Speaker 6: Then the place where the girl was renting a room, in.
Speaker 2: The place where her friend was, they found out who
Speaker 2: the perpetrators were. But it really was I'm thinking that
Speaker 2: at the time they were considered good pictures.
Speaker 6: And maybe the I were trained. That's the only thing
Speaker 6: I can think of, because you know, I was.
Speaker 2: Even told these pictures aren't good enough for the book,
Speaker 2: but they were all we had to work with, so
Speaker 2: and I wanted them in the book because I wanted
Speaker 2: to show the readers just you know, they were their history.
Speaker 6: That the first photos of a bank robbery and a
Speaker 6: female was an involved.
Speaker 4: Absolutely. You talk about in this same chapter about Esther
Speaker 4: and Patsy Whiting, the family that robs together you know,
Speaker 4: stays together. This is a fascinating story encompassing many issues
Speaker 4: as well. They are illustrated in this one story.
Speaker 2: Right right Esther was a divorced woman, she has some kids.
Speaker 2: She's got a son that comes back from the army,
Speaker 2: and he's just kind of one of these ne'er dwells
Speaker 2: that would rather steal and you know, take other people's
Speaker 2: things than make an honest living. And he and his
Speaker 2: buddies decide bank robbery is a good idea, and his
Speaker 2: little sister helps rob the bank. She tucks her hair
Speaker 2: up under a hat and everybody thinks she's a young man,
Speaker 2: and his mama drives the getaway car. So it's just
Speaker 2: sort of like this whole family affair thing of bank robbing.
Speaker 2: And besides robbing banks, he's also a burglar. And when
Speaker 2: the sister appears in the newspaper days later, because of
Speaker 2: course they're caught, his sister is wearing a coat that
Speaker 2: he stole in one of his pargaries. So one of
Speaker 2: the women reading the article she says, that's my coat.
Speaker 2: And so not only you know, do the readers get
Speaker 2: to read this salacious story about a mom, her son,
Speaker 2: and her daughter who all rub them back together. But
Speaker 2: they also get to identify some stolen property too.
Speaker 6: But they were an interesting family.
Speaker 2: And then when they were waiting to be transported to jail,
Speaker 2: and the reporters are saying, hey, how about a smile.
Speaker 6: For us esther and she got mad.
Speaker 2: You know, she's telling them to mind their own business,
Speaker 2: and it was an interesting story. She was actually perturbed
Speaker 2: that they're willing to take her picture because it's a story.
Speaker 2: It's you know, mother, daughter.
Speaker 6: And son all bank rubbing together.
Speaker 4: Yeah, incredible. You have a part five Power to the
Speaker 4: People and you write that you were involved and partnered
Speaker 4: with the FBI with this radical animal rights group. Tell
Speaker 4: us about this undercover initiative that you undertook and what happened.
Speaker 2: It wasn't PETA, It wasn't an animal rights activist group
Speaker 2: that I don't even believe they exist anymore. But I
Speaker 2: was working as a private investigator and we partnered with
Speaker 2: the FBI. It was an animal rights group that had
Speaker 2: originally started in England, and they had killed at.
Speaker 6: Least one person. They had blown up a couple of cars,
Speaker 6: a couple of.
Speaker 2: Buildings, and they were targeting people who worked at these businesses.
Speaker 2: Organizations that were doing animal testing, and then they were
Speaker 2: over in the United States and they were doing the same.
Speaker 2: They were finding out where these people lived, they were
Speaker 2: targeting their homes, and not only were they targeting the
Speaker 2: people's homes but also their neighbors. So they were destroying property.
Speaker 2: They were destroying cars and throwing eggs at the houses
Speaker 2: and setting fires, and it was a scary time for
Speaker 2: these folks. And I went undercover to join this group,
Speaker 2: and they had put a poster and flyer out that
Speaker 2: they were going to all meet at night time in
Speaker 2: this I guess it was kind of like a park
Speaker 2: in the middle of this very upper crust neighborhood, and
Speaker 2: they were going to strategize their next move. And the
Speaker 2: way they wrote it, it sounded all very clandestine, and
Speaker 2: it sounded like very frightening actually, because he didn't know
Speaker 2: what these people were capable of. They'd already killed one person,
Speaker 2: they'd already blown up cars, very serious destruction of property,
Speaker 2: and so we really didn't know what their next move
Speaker 2: was going to be.
Speaker 6: So I go undercover with this group, and they really
Speaker 6: were a bunch of wealthy.
Speaker 2: Kids and wealthy people that were pretending to be poor
Speaker 2: it was very, very interesting, very educated driving Alexis driving
Speaker 2: cars like that, and they wanted to believe in something,
Speaker 2: so they believed what they were doing was the right thing.
Speaker 2: But when they all decided they were going to sit
Speaker 2: and strategize, basically what they were going to do was
Speaker 2: just go to a local club and drink a bunch
Speaker 2: of beer and listen to local musicians. It had nothing
Speaker 2: to do with planning what they were going to do
Speaker 2: to anything.
Speaker 4: You saw that many of these groups. Why you included
Speaker 4: this story is, I'm thinking is that it showed that
Speaker 4: despite these very very serious intentions, murderous intentions, that they
Speaker 4: were really unorganized, unfocused, and unrealistic about what they were doing.
Speaker 6: Right, It's like they had no idea. It was a
Speaker 6: strange ecotomy.
Speaker 2: It's like they could organize something bad, like blowing up
Speaker 2: a car, but they were doing it for reasons that
Speaker 2: they thought they understood. They weren't really educated on the cause.
Speaker 6: They just thought they knew the cause.
Speaker 1: Yes, And.
Speaker 2: I was really thrown off by the way they talked.
Speaker 2: It was like they were trying to appear poor. It
Speaker 2: was like they were trying to appear low socio economic
Speaker 2: un educated. But they would flip into the language and
Speaker 2: the body language, and like, you know, two of them
Speaker 2: were talking about you know what, they pulled up in
Speaker 2: this brand new it's Alexis, it's brand new off the showroom,
Speaker 2: and I'm thinking, okay, you and they're they're talking about
Speaker 2: this car like you know, it's their baby. But then
Speaker 2: they'd slipped back into this this talk and this walk
Speaker 2: and I'm thinking okay. And it was it was a
Speaker 2: long it's a long, sordid story. But my cover was blown.
Speaker 2: And then I got targeted and they were putting notes
Speaker 2: in my mailbox. They were driving by it all hours,
Speaker 2: yelling in bullhorns. I had to have the cops watching
Speaker 2: my house. They started harassing my neighbors, and I slept
Speaker 2: on the couch with my gun for quite a while
Speaker 2: because we had no idea what these people were capable of.
Speaker 2: You know, we knew what they could do, we knew
Speaker 2: what they had done, so they were just they were unpredictable.
Speaker 2: But they were just so uneducated on the facts. And
Speaker 2: it wasn't just animal testing that they were protesting. It
Speaker 2: was a lot of different pro animal things that they
Speaker 2: didn't even know what was truly happening.
Speaker 6: It was just based on conjecture and idealism and such.
Speaker 2: But they reminded me a lot later on in life
Speaker 2: of the sla who kidnapped Patty Hurst and all these
Speaker 2: other organizations like Weather Underground and such.
Speaker 6: You know, they thought they knew what was going on
Speaker 6: in the.
Speaker 2: World of the an educated, low sex economic and they
Speaker 2: really didn't have a lot of grasp of what truly
Speaker 2: was going on.
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Speaker 4: were talking about misguided people in organizations and groups, and
Speaker 4: you have a story about Susan Sachs and Katherine Ann Power,
Speaker 4: and these were radicals that were much more organized and very,
Speaker 4: very dedicated to their cause. Tell us about Susan Sachs
Speaker 4: and Katherine Ann Power.
Speaker 6: Well, these were two.
Speaker 2: Young women that were highly highly educated. And it's interesting
Speaker 2: because if you look at people that joined these radical
Speaker 2: organizations in the seventies, all of them were highly educated individuals.
Speaker 2: But they started out and this is another interesting thing
Speaker 2: that when they were in high school, these people were
Speaker 2: also involved in pep squads and different groups of organizational
Speaker 2: support and.
Speaker 6: Behavior of the schools or of other groups.
Speaker 2: They were always the people that welcomed new students in
Speaker 2: I thought that was interesting too. But nonetheless, these two
Speaker 2: girls were so so intelligent, and they are going to
Speaker 2: college and they are listening to these speeches about anti
Speaker 2: Vietnam war and educate prisoners inmates, educate in particular black inmates.
Speaker 2: You know, instead of prisons being places of punishment, they
Speaker 2: should be educating and uplifting these inmates so that when
Speaker 2: they are let out of prison.
Speaker 6: They do have a future.
Speaker 2: And they're listening to these presentations and these speeches, and
Speaker 2: they start listening and saying, you know what, I believe
Speaker 2: in this, I agree with this cause. And they get
Speaker 2: to be friends with this fellow that's there at the
Speaker 2: college on a special program for.
Speaker 6: Returning Vietnam soldiers and for.
Speaker 2: Inmates, and they start following him because he knows where
Speaker 2: it's at. He's been there, you know, he's he knows
Speaker 2: what it's at. Now. Mind you, these two women have
Speaker 2: never been around anything illegal. But again, this misguided idea
Speaker 2: of what it's like to be a poor quote unquote
Speaker 2: downtrodden black individual. You know, they believe they know what
Speaker 2: this is and what it's like to be an inmate.
Speaker 2: So they're listening to his stories and you know what
Speaker 2: goulogs we have in the United States and by way
Speaker 2: of prisons. And they decide that they're going to make
Speaker 2: a difference in the world and they're going to stop
Speaker 2: the Vietnam War and they're going to take over because
Speaker 2: the man, meaning the government or anybody over a certain age,
Speaker 2: has really screwed up the world and it's up to
Speaker 2: their generation to make the change. And so that's what
Speaker 2: they decide they're going to do, like so many other
Speaker 2: domestic organizations at this time, and somehow or other, they
Speaker 2: decide the way to do that is to arm the
Speaker 2: black panthers.
Speaker 6: How are we going to arm the black panthers? Well,
Speaker 6: we need money, Okay.
Speaker 2: How are we going to get the money, Well, we're
Speaker 2: going to go to the bank. And that's what they do,
Speaker 2: and they start robbing banks in order to make money
Speaker 2: so that they can buy guns to arm the black panthers,
Speaker 2: so they can take over the country and show the
Speaker 2: world how to run itself.
Speaker 4: And that's the idea, and Susan's entering entering a bank
Speaker 4: with an interesting I guess weapon, and it's a Molotov cocktail.
Speaker 4: A whiskey bottle with a wick.
Speaker 2: Isn't it right? Right? You know? And in hindsight you
Speaker 2: think a Molotov cocktail, I mean, okay, but you think
Speaker 2: at the time period, you know, in these protests in
Speaker 2: the streets, that was a you know, that was a
Speaker 2: utilized weapon because you throw this, the alcohol spreads things blow,
Speaker 2: you know, you can't control fire.
Speaker 6: So there she is with her mama top cocktail.
Speaker 2: They rob the bank and they find it down the
Speaker 2: street where she tossed it intact. So it's not like
Speaker 2: they're the most sophisticated bank robbers.
Speaker 4: At the end of what you talk about, though, is
Speaker 4: that they rob several banks and they get off with
Speaker 4: a fair amount of money, significant amount of money. But
Speaker 4: there is a Boston police officer, Walter A. Schroeder, and
Speaker 4: this guy had won Medal of Valor before involving bank robbers.
Speaker 4: So he goes to the crime scene and from there
Speaker 4: he spots what he thinks are the perpetrators from this.
Speaker 4: What happens after that.
Speaker 2: Officer Schroeder, his story just breaks my heart. He had,
Speaker 2: as you said, had caught bank robbers before, and he
Speaker 2: goes to stop these roberts and one of the group
Speaker 2: turns in fires and murders in cold blood. This officer, well,
Speaker 2: arming the black panthers. There goes that idea. Now they're
Speaker 2: cop killers, Now they're bank robbers. And they all scattered,
Speaker 2: and the two fellows.
Speaker 6: Of the group.
Speaker 2: This is again what I found interesting.
Speaker 6: The two men of the.
Speaker 2: Group, they go their separate ways and they get caught
Speaker 2: within days, you know, one of them within hours. But
Speaker 2: the two women, they go underground. They tear up their identity,
Speaker 2: they take on new identities. They start living in communes,
Speaker 2: They drift from place to place to place. They give
Speaker 2: up all communications with their families and friends, and they
Speaker 2: stay on the run for some time. Meanwhile, Officer Schroeder
Speaker 2: has left many children, several actually who went on to
Speaker 2: become police officers and detectives.
Speaker 6: And he's you know, he was very short of retirement.
Speaker 2: But they killed him, they killed him in cold blood.
Speaker 4: Now they're on the run. They're fugitives.
Speaker 5: There.
Speaker 4: You talk about the FBI and fbis most Wanted, and
Speaker 4: they had another designation before that, public Enemy number one.
Speaker 4: And so these people go on the run. How successful
Speaker 4: are Susan and Catherine on the run?
Speaker 2: Quite successful? Maybe because they you know, again, they tore
Speaker 2: up all their identity. They're smart, they move place to place,
Speaker 2: they don't stay in one spot very long.
Speaker 6: They've got friends that will help them.
Speaker 2: They stay. They don't stay in touch with their families
Speaker 2: or their friends, people that don't know them. They stay
Speaker 2: out of the public eye, change their appearance. They don't
Speaker 2: take public jobs. And the FBI, boy, they're hot for them,
Speaker 2: and so are a local police because they've taken one
Speaker 2: of their own, and rightfully so, so they're looking for them.
Speaker 2: And of course, you know, the mentality with a lot
Speaker 2: of people during that time period was so against law enforcement,
Speaker 2: the man, anybody that was in charge of something. So
Speaker 2: many people were willing to hide them and.
Speaker 6: To help them.
Speaker 4: It's very much like you right in the beginning that
Speaker 4: when people were robbing banks after the depression, people saw
Speaker 4: the banks as being representative of the oppressive government or
Speaker 4: the failing government. So many of the people that were
Speaker 4: bank robbers were hailed as sort of a robin hoods
Speaker 4: at that.
Speaker 2: Time, right they saw this bank as this nameless, faithless institution.
Speaker 2: And you're not hurting anyone.
Speaker 6: You're walking in, you're taking money, and you're leaving, but
Speaker 6: you're not thinking about.
Speaker 2: This poor teller that you've got a gun to a
Speaker 2: person's face, who's you know, hoping that this indivad is
Speaker 2: not going to fire this gun at them or in
Speaker 2: one case throw them Alotov cocktail. You've got people screaming
Speaker 2: and waving guns. I mean, think about the Symbionese Liberation
Speaker 2: Army where they rubbed the bank with Patricia Hurst and
Speaker 2: they're screaming and they're yelling at waving automatic weapons.
Speaker 6: That was cause for fear, you know, great fear, and.
Speaker 2: They're but they're seeing these spaceless institutions and so many
Speaker 2: people think, well, the money's insured anyway, so it's almost
Speaker 2: like I'm robbing a building.
Speaker 4: We talk about Susan. She pled to manslaughter in January
Speaker 4: nineteen seventy seven, manslaughter rather than murder, and two armed
Speaker 4: robbery counts. She got twelve years, with two years for
Speaker 4: time served. But she was defiant right to the despite
Speaker 4: being arrested. She was defiant right to the end in
Speaker 4: her attitudes.
Speaker 6: Wasn't she Oh, yes to the end?
Speaker 2: I mean, she was just thoroughly convinced that she was
Speaker 2: in the right, and she was someone that I just
Speaker 2: I would not have liked because she just she had
Speaker 2: no feelings for that poor officer that they took his life,
Speaker 2: and was just convinced that they were in the right
Speaker 2: and the government was in the wrong.
Speaker 6: And of course the government.
Speaker 2: Encompassing everybody from the officer with the badge who lay
Speaker 2: in his own blood, to the President of the United.
Speaker 6: States, to anyone connected with the bank.
Speaker 2: You know, just this attitude, just like you know Emily
Speaker 2: with the SMLA, who kept the same attitude the entire time,
Speaker 2: where they had the right to do what they did,
Speaker 2: again under this guise of thinking they are thinking they
Speaker 2: know the truth or thinking they know why they're doing.
Speaker 2: What they're doing is righteous and good and you know,
Speaker 2: screw everybody else.
Speaker 4: SLA Army, though that Patty Hurst was involved with it
Speaker 4: does not resemble so much the Susan and Catherine story
Speaker 4: that we just heard, though it is different. And tell
Speaker 4: us more about the what Patty Hurst, why they put
Speaker 4: her in a position to rob Banks, and just tell
Speaker 4: us a little bit more about what you found about
Speaker 4: her role in all of this.
Speaker 6: Well, the Cymbidese Liberation Army.
Speaker 2: Again, here's this group that thinks they understand the cause,
Speaker 2: and they've created a cause rather than embrace one. Cymbids
Speaker 2: wasn't even a real word. They kidnapped Patricia Hurst because
Speaker 2: she was a representative of the people, and they robbed
Speaker 2: the bank not so much as an act.
Speaker 6: But as a show. Part of it was showing off
Speaker 6: their prize, Patricia Hurst.
Speaker 2: And it wasn't so much as showing off their prize
Speaker 2: that they had kidnapped her, but that they had turned her,
Speaker 2: that she was now one of them, and that was
Speaker 2: their coup.
Speaker 6: Of course, their leader.
Speaker 2: Sink, who called Donald de Friese, who called himself Sink
Speaker 2: and he pronounced it coop.
Speaker 6: But as part of their.
Speaker 2: As part of their coup, they showed off Patricia Hurst
Speaker 2: as now being a member of the SLA. And that's
Speaker 2: why they robbed that bank, and that's why they placed
Speaker 2: her where they placed her, because they wanted her to
Speaker 2: be right in front of the cameras, front and center,
Speaker 2: you know, showing off that look, she's left the pigs,
Speaker 2: you know, the people of power and government and such,
Speaker 2: and she is now one of ours. So it's more
Speaker 2: of a showcase than it was a bank robbery. Of course,
Speaker 2: getting the money didn't hurt. It funded their cause whatever,
Speaker 2: you know, God knows what their cause was. I don't
Speaker 2: even think they got it, but that was why they
Speaker 2: robbed that bank.
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Speaker 4: Now we talk about part six and you title it
Speaker 4: what Little Girls Aren't Made Of And you talk about
Speaker 4: some perpetrators here. One of those is Gail Simpson and
Speaker 4: her son is Big Punisher or Big pun This is
Speaker 4: a fascinating story. I didn't know anything about. But you
Speaker 4: call it Big pun Little Mama Gail Simpson tell us
Speaker 4: about this fascinating robbery.
Speaker 6: Big Punisher was this just millionaire rap star, and literally
Speaker 6: he was one of the very few. And I say
Speaker 6: this as a huge Tupac fan.
Speaker 2: He was just one of these very few true rappers
Speaker 2: that made it out of the ghetto and made something
Speaker 2: of himself. He wasn't a how you say, a produced rapper.
Speaker 2: He truly was a fellow that made it out of
Speaker 2: the ghetto. And he came from a very very tough situation.
Speaker 2: One of the situations was his family and his mother
Speaker 2: had already been in trouble for numerous council welfare fraud.
Speaker 2: His mother, unfortunately, we you know, Big Punisher died from
Speaker 2: his He was a very big guy and his great
Speaker 2: game portrayed his early demise.
Speaker 6: But his mother had robbed several banks.
Speaker 2: And she was this little, tiny lady who walked into
Speaker 2: the bank and produced a note, a threatening note, and
Speaker 2: walked out with money. Now, the rule of the bank is,
Speaker 2: you don't become a hero, you don't try to stop anyone.
Speaker 2: You do what the robber says, right, and you worry
Speaker 2: about money could be replaced. People cannot you observe, You
Speaker 2: take notes, You do what you can to, you know,
Speaker 2: identifying the perpetrator and let them move on.
Speaker 6: But that's what she did. She walked in, she produced
Speaker 6: a note, and she walked out.
Speaker 4: You talk about other cases in this book. You have
Speaker 4: the granny bandits, you have the youngest bandit, you have
Speaker 4: a one arm bandit. But you also have a a
Speaker 4: part seven called diapers and electric bills. I know what
Speaker 4: you're saying. What are you saying about the motivations for
Speaker 4: a lot of these bank robberies, especially more modern bank
Speaker 4: robberies females.
Speaker 6: Well, that's interesting because the difference.
Speaker 2: Is between male bank robbers and female bank robbers differ
Speaker 2: so greatly. It's always about money. It's always going to
Speaker 2: be about money. Sometimes you got love thrown at the
Speaker 2: bank bag. But you see how women needed money to
Speaker 2: survive more so than for political causes. They needed money
Speaker 2: to escape a role in society, to feed an addiction,
Speaker 2: and finally to pay the bills. And I spoke with
Speaker 2: several women that I interviewed for the book, and I said,
Speaker 2: what did you spend the money on to pay the bills? Okay,
Speaker 2: what do you mean pay the bills? Electric bill? I
Speaker 2: had an electric bill. I had to pay my rent.
Speaker 2: I had to buy the baby some clothes.
Speaker 6: And at first I thought it was a joke.
Speaker 2: You know, you rob a bank, but you go buy
Speaker 2: yourself something nice, you know, for all your trouble.
Speaker 6: But that's what they were dropping the bank for. For males,
Speaker 6: you know, a male's.
Speaker 2: Role in society has always been kind of defined, and
Speaker 2: a woman's role in society has evolved, and males are
Speaker 2: usually feeding a habit and they're getting easy money when
Speaker 2: they rob a bank. Women are doing it to pay
Speaker 2: a bill, and that's been the last X number of years,
Speaker 2: is what they're doing. And another female that I spoke to,
Speaker 2: she said, yeah, I became addicted to crack. Cocaine was
Speaker 2: my new drug, a choice, and I was stealing, you know,
Speaker 2: to pay for that. But I also had to pay
Speaker 2: for my apartment and I was behind. So it's just
Speaker 2: this interesting kind of back and forth. I guess that
Speaker 2: I was seeing with the guys where you know, they're
Speaker 2: brandishing the clothes and the jewelry and such, and the
Speaker 2: women are saying I needed pamps, And I thought, what
Speaker 2: kind of world, you know, where we're seeing these women
Speaker 2: robbing a bank to pay for these general necessities. Now,
Speaker 2: the older women that I spoke to or that I researched,
Speaker 2: most of them were paying for a drug habit and
Speaker 2: it was usually prescription drugs. Right.
Speaker 4: What all of these women had in common, or at
Speaker 4: least a lot of these women that you wrote about,
Speaker 4: Even though these are famous or relatively famous or well
Speaker 4: known crimes that you've come up with, they were at
Speaker 4: times the media latched onto these stories, then they faded.
Speaker 4: But what seems to be characteristic of them is how
Speaker 4: on one hand, they were very unrealistic about their approach
Speaker 4: to the crimes and getting away with the crimes, and also,
Speaker 4: as you mentioned with a couple of these examples, quite
Speaker 4: pathetic kind of stories in terms of their backgrounds before
Speaker 4: they decided to rob the banks and then what happened
Speaker 4: afterwards to them in terms of pretty stiff sentencing in
Speaker 4: most cases as well, not so much understanding from the
Speaker 4: courts about some of these social conditions that would lead
Speaker 4: to this for them to be considered robbing a bank.
Speaker 2: Right, And some of these like you know, the woman
Speaker 2: who had one arm, she was missing an arm from
Speaker 2: the elbow, down.
Speaker 6: You know, she walks into the bank.
Speaker 2: With a steak knife and she tells the teller, this
Speaker 2: is a robbery, give me all the money, and the
Speaker 2: teller says no and hits the alarm and the woman
Speaker 2: runs out, and all of these jokes and all of
Speaker 2: these stories, you know, pop up and just be rating
Speaker 2: this poor woman, and you know, come to find out
Speaker 2: she has some mental illness going on, and she has
Speaker 2: an addiction happening. They caught her, you know, hours later,
Speaker 2: she admits right away it's her. And when they catch her,
Speaker 2: she's just terrified. It's it's you know, it's sad. And
Speaker 2: then we have you know, this this girl that called
Speaker 2: herself chick bank robber that got Hi fell afterwards, videotapes herself,
Speaker 2: puts it on YouTube with all the money and the
Speaker 2: keys to the car she stole, and people just started
Speaker 2: calling her right away, you know, world's dumbest criminal. And
Speaker 2: I mean, this poor girl just got raked over the
Speaker 2: coals in the media and socially, you know, she and
Speaker 2: I still talk, and she is this poor girl has
Speaker 2: so many problems. She's mentally ill, she has aids from
Speaker 2: a rape, she has a child, she's in prison, when
Speaker 2: my personal opinion, she should be in a mental health
Speaker 2: hospital getting some care that she needs, and you know,
Speaker 2: she just she's made some very stupid or decisions based
Speaker 2: on not being on her medications and self medicating through
Speaker 2: illegal drugs. So you see these stories and you think, Okay,
Speaker 2: that opposed to somebody who just says, I want a
Speaker 2: lot of money, I'm gonna go rub a maink. I'm gonna,
Speaker 2: you know, wave a gun in somebody's face and I'm
Speaker 2: not saying that they're completely innocent and should just get
Speaker 2: a pat on the hand and turn to lose.
Speaker 6: Sure, you think these stories and you're like, Okay, there's
Speaker 6: so much more to.
Speaker 4: This than what meets the You say that despite this
Speaker 4: being very rare, women in bank robbery, despite this being
Speaker 4: predominantly male endeavor, you talk about that it's a growing trend.
Speaker 4: There is an op check. There is an increase in
Speaker 4: bank robbery by women, isn't there right?
Speaker 2: Not by much because the numbers are still pretty low.
Speaker 2: But you're seeing a little bit of a spike last year,
Speaker 2: particularly this year, I'm sorry year before a spike, and
Speaker 2: then last year the numbers were a little bit lower.
Speaker 2: But it's become really an easier crime because all you
Speaker 2: have to do is walk in, hand over a note,
Speaker 2: and walk out. Now, I'm not saying everybody should go
Speaker 2: oh well then right through, no doubt right now.
Speaker 6: What I'm saying is, you know, it's an easy crime
Speaker 6: to commit.
Speaker 2: However, third times the charm you're very lucky for going
Speaker 2: to get away through times.
Speaker 6: And it's not worth it.
Speaker 4: Yeah, you talk about some you talk about many of
Speaker 4: the women in this book. We're not very fortunate, and
Speaker 4: we're captured quite soon and imprisoned and sentenced. So there
Speaker 4: was no happy endings in almost any of these stories, whatsoever?
Speaker 4: Were there?
Speaker 6: No, there's never a happy ending.
Speaker 2: I mean, there's a school teacher who days after the
Speaker 2: semester ended in the high school, she takes off and
Speaker 2: she goes robbing restaurants and robbing banks.
Speaker 6: That's what she did on her summer vacation, you know,
Speaker 6: is starting to rob banks.
Speaker 2: And Okay, now she's lost her career that she went through,
Speaker 2: you know, six years of college, four she's lost her
Speaker 2: good name, you know, six years over life, friends, family,
Speaker 2: I mean, you think of.
Speaker 6: Everything that you put on the line, everything.
Speaker 4: You put on the line before I let you go.
Speaker 4: There is a story that's quite interesting where a couple
Speaker 4: twins at fourteen years old decide to rob some banks
Speaker 4: and they have feisty characters and they have an interesting
Speaker 4: getaway driver. Tell us about the bank robs.
Speaker 2: Oh, those twins. You know, their family was having some
Speaker 2: financial difficulties, and these twins were already saucy girls.
Speaker 6: I'll put yea And so they decided that they were
Speaker 6: going to.
Speaker 2: Help their family because they're about to foreclothes on their house.
Speaker 2: Now they had half a dozen people at least living
Speaker 2: in this house. My dad, my mom, did my steps,
Speaker 2: friends of my mom's friends, of their friends, some friends
Speaker 2: that came in, some people.
Speaker 4: That need you know.
Speaker 6: So this house was step full of peace, and they
Speaker 6: still couldn't make the rent. So, okay, what are we
Speaker 6: going to do?
Speaker 2: Well, the same answer throughout this book. We'll rob a bank.
Speaker 2: We'll make a bunch of money. Well, they're only kids,
Speaker 2: so they don't even have driver's license, so they're going
Speaker 2: to have to have a driver. And their mom tells them,
Speaker 2: you're not going to get away with this and this
Speaker 2: is a stupid idea, and they said, well, we're going
Speaker 2: to do it, whether you want us to or not,
Speaker 2: but they need a driver. The driver they get away
Speaker 2: car for them, Oh, I'm sorry. The driver who takes
Speaker 2: them to the bank waits and then drives them away
Speaker 2: from the bank is her mother. Yeah, they can't drive
Speaker 2: a third sister. Their stepsister was going to go in
Speaker 2: on it. Halfway there, she says, uh, this isn't such
Speaker 2: a good idea, and they're like, all right, then we'll
Speaker 2: take you home, but you better keep your mouth shut.
Speaker 2: So they go back, dump her off, and head back
Speaker 2: to the bank.
Speaker 4: So what happens at the bank, Well, first.
Speaker 2: They say a prayer, then they put their sche masks on.
Speaker 2: They have their brother's pellet gun that they had painted
Speaker 2: with nail polish on the end of the gun so
Speaker 2: it wasn't right pink. And they go in and they
Speaker 2: rob the bank and they stop and one of them says,
Speaker 2: that's all the money you're going to give us. They
Speaker 2: asked for more. They leave the bank. The mama drives
Speaker 2: them home and they're telling their stepdaddy, who's the only
Speaker 2: daddy they have that they've ever known.
Speaker 6: You know, look what all the money we got, And
Speaker 6: the stepdaddy is furious.
Speaker 2: Then he says, well, you better burn everything, So they
Speaker 2: burn all their clothes and the pillot case and everything
Speaker 2: they've got, and then they said, well, we've got all
Speaker 2: this money, we're going to pay all our bills.
Speaker 6: We're going to catch up, and.
Speaker 2: We're going to get our house mortgage back, you know where.
Speaker 6: It needs to be. The first, let's go shopping.
Speaker 2: So they go to the mall and they go to
Speaker 2: the casino, and the idea was to laundry the money
Speaker 2: at the casino. The first the girls went shopping and
Speaker 2: they bought themselves some outfits and something pretty to wear.
Speaker 2: But of course it was the next day they got
Speaker 2: busted because cameras were up and people made phone calls.
Speaker 4: Now, despite their age of fourteen, how did the courts
Speaker 4: treat these young girls.
Speaker 2: Well, they weren't real happy with them because one of
Speaker 2: them was pretty mad on you know, she was pretty
Speaker 2: snarky on the stand.
Speaker 6: So they both got sent to juvenile detention I'm.
Speaker 2: Sorry, juvenile jail. And one of them decided that she
Speaker 2: didn't need to be there anymore, so the horn of
Speaker 2: her friend just took off. So they got sent to
Speaker 2: jail and they ended up doing some time, and they
Speaker 2: were basically treated as adults.
Speaker 6: I mean, this isn't you know. They weren't real happy
Speaker 6: with their attitudes.
Speaker 2: Yeah, and they waved uns the you know again, you
Speaker 2: wave a gun to the person and you always ask
Speaker 2: somebody that's ever had a gun pointed at their face,
Speaker 2: big was the.
Speaker 6: Gun, and that person's going to tell you it was
Speaker 6: a big gun.
Speaker 2: It doesn't matter it was a shotgun or a pea shooter,
Speaker 2: because that's what a gun looks like when it's pointed
Speaker 2: at your nose and the person on the other end
Speaker 2: means business.
Speaker 4: Yeah, it seemed that the judge took into consideration the
Speaker 4: stories that they told, but the crimes were the crimes,
Speaker 4: and they were sentenced accordingly.
Speaker 2: Yep. Yeah, you know, the judge wasn't going to play
Speaker 2: and it was time to stand up take it like
Speaker 2: an adult it, you know. And you notice in this
Speaker 2: book that the juveniles, a lot of them, were treated
Speaker 2: like adults because this is an adult crime. You don't
Speaker 2: just walk into a bank, wave a gun and say
Speaker 2: give me all your money and then when you get
Speaker 2: caught they patch your hand and say, well, they're just
Speaker 2: a kid.
Speaker 6: And it's a serious crime. It's a federal crime. It's
Speaker 6: taken very seriously.
Speaker 4: I want to thank you very much, Judith for coming
Speaker 4: on and talking about your latest put the Money in
Speaker 4: My Purse, h story of female bank Robbers. For those
Speaker 4: that might want to take a look at your other work,
Speaker 4: do you have a Facebook page or a website, I
Speaker 4: take a look.
Speaker 2: I have a website. You can go to True crimebook
Speaker 2: dot net. You can pick up any of my books.
Speaker 2: You can pick up a book that's signed. Just check
Speaker 2: out the website, and you can always friend me on Facebook.
Speaker 2: And I have social media all over the place. But
Speaker 2: I haven't learned TikTok yet. Yeah, I haven't gotten on Harry.
Speaker 4: Welcome to the Welcome to the Club.
Speaker 6: I'll probably I'll probably.
Speaker 2: Learn that in a couple of years, because that's usually
Speaker 2: how long it takes me to learn social media.
Speaker 6: But by then it'll be old news.
Speaker 4: Yeah. Well, I want to thank you very much Judith
Speaker 4: for coming on and talking about put the Money in
Speaker 4: My Purse, A History of female bank Robbers. It's been
Speaker 4: a delight and you have a great evening. Thank you
Speaker 4: so much.
Speaker 6: Safe, good night,