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Mac of All Trade Studio in Fairport and driven by
Victor Chrysler Dots Geeve Bram It's Billified the Bill Moran Podcast.
Speaker 4: Well, hello and welcome. Thank you for getting your pot on,
Thanks for telling a friend. That's how we spread the
word about the Pirates Ship. I don't know if we
call it a comeback, but former.
Speaker 1: President Donald Trump was re elected and will return to
the White House as America's forty seventh president after defeating
Vice President Kamala Harris, and he has JD. Vance, the
junior Ohio senator who will serve as as vice president.
Speaker 2: And I think that.
Speaker 1: I don't know if people know how to feel about this,
what to think of this. I'm more of the mind
that sometimes you control what you can control, don't lose
sight of your values, and continue to move forward. And
I thought a lot of that was even echoed in
Common Harris's concession speech today.
Speaker 2: But I thought it would be interesting to get.
Speaker 1: Not just a political perspective, but also someone who is
deeply invested in the Harris Walls campaign, and that would
be doctor Bowers, who is a retired political science professor
from Saint John Fisher University. He's also an author, He
is also a podcaster. The man does it all. He
just never stops Hello, Doctor Bowers, and he's in his
gym clothes because, as he told me, he's got to
keep himself young.
Speaker 5: I do want your Your viewers can see this, but
your listeners can't. I am perfectly matched to bilifies you are.
Speaker 2: You do have the yellow or.
Speaker 5: A sweatshirt, and while you can't see it, I am
wearing pants, but I'm wearing black joggers. I match your
logo colors.
Speaker 2: It's amazing. Thank you for that.
Speaker 5: One of the mofied hoodies coming out.
Speaker 2: Well, I've been asked that quite a bit.
Speaker 1: Actually there's I get emails every once in a while
and I have to do that. I think in twenty
twenty five we'll launch that.
Speaker 5: By the way, I am going to correct one thing
you said. I am not heavily invested in the Paris
Walls campaign. What I'm heavily invested in is the values
of our country, which Donald Trump and his mega supporters
do not truly represent.
Speaker 2: So that would be a very fair correction.
Speaker 1: And I think that there was something as we get
into this, because I think my first question to you
would be, is this one of the biggest political comebacks ever?
Don't forget we had an insurrection and people saying he'll
never step foot in the Capitol ever again, and here
we are where he's getting back into the White House.
Speaker 5: Well, to actually put in an historical perspective, he's not
the first to have done this. He might be the
first felon who has done this and the only felon
who has done this. But Grover Cleveland. Grover Cleveland served
two non consecutive terms. One lost one.
Speaker 2: Okay, one lost one.
Speaker 5: It's historic in the sense that it's only happened once before.
There's some historic aspects, none which are flattering. Like I said,
a felon elected, a predator elected, a you know, a
pathological liar elected. And the fact that the American public
did it consciously speaks ill of the majority of the
American public because they are his co conspirators. Here.
Speaker 1: Well, we would say, boy, I have to say, doctor Bauers.
They spoke loudly because it was I was kind of overwhelming.
I didn't think that it would be as significant win
as it was.
Speaker 2: Let's put it that way. I thought it'd be closer.
Speaker 5: Yeah, well so did I. I was optimized.
Speaker 2: I was.
Speaker 5: I was preciously optimistic that hope would went out over
fear and hatred. And it didn't. And you know, I
have problems here because I can tolerate an awful one.
I could tolerate when Donald Trump won in twenty sixteen.
We didn't know what we were getting then, and Hillary
Clinton was not an attractive Democrat and she was trying
to break a pattern that doesn't happen very often in
presidential elections. That's twelve years of the same party. I
can even somewhat excuse some people who voted for him
in twenty twenty. But to know everything that we know
about him, to know what he is like, to know
anything for the xenophobia, to the misogyny, to the the
you know, to the sexism, to the transphobia, to the
vileness of his need to take retribution, to his pathological lying.
When the American public goes down that road, then that
is also a statement on them. Yeah, and high behind
issues like the economy right deep down. If you ignore
everything else because you claim, oh my god, the price
of milk is high, well fuck that milk prices will
go down. You run the risk of the country going down.
That's far more important than milk.
Speaker 2: What do we see? I know, I hear you. I
wonder with.
Speaker 1: I did think Kamala Harris's concession speech where she said
we all loyalty not to a president or a party,
but to the constitution of the United States, was someone
aimed at at President Trump himself, as that happens. But
to the people that would say, well, I voted because
of the economy or I voted because I don't know
transit whatever, whatever the issues may be. My question is
did the Democrats not have the right candidate in place?
And I wasn't even going to really ask that only
because if you think about it, it wasn't one that
was sort of democratically elected or rallied around. It was
someone who sort of fell into it. Now, could she
be absolutely and is she qualified?
Speaker 2: Yes?
Speaker 1: However, I wonder if that could be part of it.
And also the fact that he painted it saying the
Biden administration had done all of this, being the economy
or whatever, and this is just a continuation of that
with her. Would a different candidate have provided different results?
Speaker 2: I don't know.
Speaker 5: Well, one, they didn't really have much choice but to
go there. I mean, in the ideal world, Joe Biden
would not have deteriorated rapidly at the start of this
year from the point of view, from the point when
he gave the State of the Union to that dismal
debate performance. But the problem is that there's a lot
of thing that's going on that people just don't get.
The economy is solid, unemployment is low, the the the
the the inflation is down. That this this, this, This
was I think at the core of trump victory. No
matter how they hide behind issues, it's grievance politics against something.
I'm an angry white man, I'm an I'm a angry
white evangelical. I'm an you know that there's too much
of that. I'm a displaced, third generation factory worker. A
lot of it is grievance politics that demagogues are quite
good at milking. Okay, so writer, wrong candidate, I'll say
wrong in this regard. And this is one of the
sad realities of this election, a parallel of twenty sixteen. Admittedly,
Hillary Clinton had her issues, and like I said before,
she's trying to win a third term for her party.
But this election underscores something even uglier. And that's why
I sound like I do right now. Is what Trump
has legitimized and has made acceptable, and by voting for him,
voters have legitimized him. And that is the misogyny, That
is the sexism, that is the racism that lays behind
the rejection of candidates like Kamala Harris. Twice now we've
had women at the top of the ticket and wwis
now they've lost. That is a sad sad commentary on
what should be the model democracy and allegedly the most
powerful country in the world. When you look around the
world and see how many other modern democracies have elected women,
the fact that we are so far behind is just shocking.
Speaker 1: Well, is it possible that we just didn't have the
right I mean, I'm not saying that a female candidate
is I don't know if it's misogyny or not. I
would say to your point, the first the first one
with Hillary, as you said, she wasn't like there were
some stuff doc there were some stuff.
Speaker 2: There and the ugliness that people saw.
Speaker 1: I will say this, I said many times that I
thought Kamala Harris didn't have the I don't know. I
wish she had a little more Hillary leadership in her,
Like she she a little more I don't know. I
guess the term would be presidential. You know, where she
stood up and just took a real command of a
crowd when she spoke. I think she was sometimes soft
and not used to that command. Where Hillary, I mean,
you you knew who was standing at the at the
top there. And I'm just saying that in terms of
let's talk the masses, right, I mean, look, look what
happened here. We know where we are today, and really
what I I don't know how you feel about that.
Speaker 2: I just wondered if she wasn't strong.
Speaker 5: When I said, I didn't mean interrupt you, but but
I'm not accusing you of this what I'm about to say.
If she would have been a man, soft spoken, aspiring,
hope and so forth, would you be even raising the
same question.
Speaker 2: I don't know.
Speaker 1: There's oftentimes I'll see people that that's a fair question.
There's oftentimes I'll see people and I can just see
in the person on the I'm not sure that they're
a leader.
Speaker 2: Now, I haven't. I never felt that way. I did.
I never felt that way about Kama. I think she
can be a leader.
Speaker 1: But when she was speaking and stuff, I was like, boy,
there's something where it just sometimes you got people who
just have that oomph and it seemed to be missing.
Was I don't know what it was. I can't even
articulate it accurately. Is that the reason why she doesn't
have I don't think so. I think that a lot
of it was, as you're saying, I think this is
to put it in even more crass terms, A giant
fuck you to the establishment.
Speaker 5: Well, but you don't want the irony of that. It's
the so called establishment that has provided everything from social
security to college loan programs to infrastructure programs. You know,
there'd be a lot of unemployed construction workers if it
wasn't for government, whether it's state or local highway grants
or national grant.
Speaker 2: Right.
Speaker 5: You know, this idea of that, whereas I fuck you
to the establishment, also shows an ignorance on the part
of the American public that voted this way because they
failed to realize how much of their life benefits from
what government does. Right, Okay, everything from your police protection,
to your national security, to your fire, to your schools,
to your to the quality of the food that you eat.
That's all government. That's all the establishment. Yes, that that
the swamp that that Trump claims he wants to drain.
You can't function in a modern society or a true
civil society without an establishment.
Speaker 2: Yeah, I I that's very true.
Speaker 5: So it's like again, he plays on the fucking fears
of people. That's what hirants do, That's what demagogues do,
That's what narcissistic pathological human beings doma UH Party Kamala
Kamala Harris. Yeah, she was soft spoken. She tried to
seek aspiration. He tried to point out the risks to
our democracy. That's different, that is different, that's more hopeful.
Speaker 1: Exactly where do But here's the thing is the way
I look at today and I don't know that I
had really give it a too much thought, but right
away you see where things went, and I just thought,
where do we go from here? If you're not in
line with this? Because their majority of the country, both
popular vote and the electoral College vote, really wanted they
voted Trump.
Speaker 5: Okay, So by the way, what was the fine? What
is the current percentage? I don't even know at this point.
Speaker 1: I don't I don't think I do either at the
at the moment.
Speaker 5: I'm sorry, no, no, no, that's fine.
Speaker 1: But my question would be to me, it would be okay,
So let's roll up our sleeves and and figure it out,
you know, and keep going forward and keep our ideals
and keep our things. I heard even John Stewart, and
I'll play it a little later as we wrap up,
but he said something to the effect of, you got
to get anop for our kids, our families, our friends.
Just be a good citizen and move forward. I know
that doesn't seem to be the rhetoric that that came
out of one side maybe over another, but that feels
like the best way to move forward to me and
to continue to push for your ideals. Now, I do
know that the Senate went red, but I'm not sure
where the House stands as of yet.
Speaker 5: So look, here's part of the problem with that. Yes,
and our individual lies, we can do that, but we
also need our government to model behavior. If you want
that kind of coming together, government has to model behavior.
This is not going to be an administration capable or
wanting to model behavior. Okay, they're going to want is Remember,
this is a man who says I'm going to be
tater on the first day, at least for day one.
This is a man who said I'm going to have
mass deepations. Now does that sounds like somebody who's going
to who's trying to bring about the better in US?
So where's where's Where's where's the modeling of behavior that
would expire us? Here's and here's again, here are the differences. Okay,
first off, Donald Trump is the only individual I know
who can make Richard Richard Nixon look like a normal,
admirable politician. We okay, okay, here's the fundamental difference. I
Every president we have had up until Trump was first elected,
and now particularly this version of Trump at least pretended
to believe in the rule of law, even if they
were finding ways to break it. They at least mouthed
the values. Okay. They knew that there were limits. Nixon
knew there were some limits on what he could do. Nixon,
when the courts told him to turn over the tapes,
for example, turned over the tapes. Okay, Nixon knew how
far he could go. George W. Bush knew what the
rule of law meant. Mitt Romney knows what the rule
of law meant. John McCain knew what the rule of
law meant. Donald Trump does not know what the rule
of law means. He knows what rule means. He doesn't
know what the rule of law means. When a president
was to my generals, that's what Hitler does, That's what
Stalin does, That's what authoritarian do. Fidelity to the constitution,
fidelity to law does not matter, and no matter and
so on that level of loan. Sadly, that's a sad
commentary also in the American public, that they don't understand
the fundamental necessity of the rule of law. That you know,
even forget that he's a misogynist's a pathological liar, and
all those other things, it's also the fact it's the
rejection of the rule of law.
Speaker 1: Yeah, I was surprised that for many that the insurrection
wasn't a bigger issue.
Speaker 5: Why it was a love fast.
Speaker 2: I just look one way or the other.
Speaker 1: I think my thing is like, Okay, so now it's happened,
it's out of our control. There's really nothing we can
do about what has happened. So what would you like
to see doctor Boward's.
Speaker 2: Let me rephrase that question.
Speaker 1: Hang on, no, I heard the left, But what would
you like to see as we move forward in terms
of government and things. Let's say that the House does
stay in democratic control. At least there'll be some checks
and balances there and and who knows what would happen
in two years when the Senate's up. But I asked
that I don't know.
Speaker 5: Look, and and you know, I've always been on your show, open,
been open about my partisan thing, you know. But I
want to say, but but even if even if the
House stayed Republican, if it was traditional pure, ifs small
town Republicans, the Bob Doles, that Jerry Ford type Republicanism,
I would have confidence that there would be a check
on Donald Trump. People forget the Republican Maine, the Republican Uh,
the Republican party in the Congress. When Nixon ultimately resigned
was because his own party was voting for impeachment. His
own party was in the committeees of voting indictments. They
understood the rule of law. They understood that you cannot
trust the maga Republicans, including the Speaker, who come from
Gerrymander districts where they have no contest and when they
have joined the cult. So I wouldn't even mind if
there was unified government. If those who are unifiers, those
who in the unified government actually understood their responsibility and
fidelity to the Constitution. They've given that up to fidelity
to a man that's a poritarian. The only hope for
these at least next two years, as far as it
being any check on Donald Trump until maybe get too late,
is for Hakim Jeffries to be Speaker of the House
and the Democrats to have even a small majority where
they can block the most and aiming things. However, that
won't stop Trump. He has the executive power, he has
a Supreme Court that gave him pretty much immunity, and
so there's even going to be limits to what the Democrats,
if they can control the House, can block and prevent. Okay, yeah,
now your question, which I was getting ready to answer,
what do I hope it happened? You know what, I
want the country to go down the fucking drain these
next two years, so the people who voted for Trump
understands exactly what the fuck they did to a country
that was a model, a constitution that has stood the
test of time until Donald Trump. I hope they get
every fucking thing they ask for.
Speaker 2: Seeing here, I was because I want.
Speaker 5: To come back and bite them in their own fucking as.
Speaker 1: I was kind of hoping in a way that it wouldn't.
I thought, well, maybe the economy comes back a little bit.
Speaker 2: I don't know.
Speaker 1: I was trying to try to have silver lining doctor
a little bit.
Speaker 5: Tariffs on everything built in Mexico. Yeah, I thought that
was really how much you renew car bill?
Speaker 1: Well, see this is where I thought he was talking
about doing that night. And I don't know if it
would be possible or not, but I'm I'm but let's
go and say it was. But that was a way
to keep And boy, that really spoke to, as you said,
the third generation factory worker, where the factory is being
taken out of you know, my hometown and my family's
worked there, and we're going to Mexico. And so to
that guy, it's like finally somebody standing up and fighting
for me. And I really felt like, yeah, no, no, no,
go ahead.
Speaker 5: It was And if they come back, we're going to
be automated. Anyway. The best deal, to you a w
got was under Joe Biden, a president who was willing
to walk the picket line. First presser to walk a
picket line. Yeah, you know, it's it's it's the it's
the classy Jim Jones. Why don't they just all go
down to some South American country and drink the fucking
kool aid and end it all. Hm, that's what they bought.
This is why I hope they get exactly what they deserve.
Speaker 1: But then we all got it. Then we all get
it though. That's the thing, and I don't want that.
Speaker 2: I mean, what if we look. I don't know. I
was really hoping that with.
Speaker 5: This democracy, they voted for him. I know they want
to get what they asked for it.
Speaker 2: I understand.
Speaker 5: You're regretting calling me up the session.
Speaker 2: No I'm not because I think.
Speaker 1: No, I'm definitely not because I think that, uh, a
lot of times words are spall.
Speaker 2: I don't think there's.
Speaker 1: Enough thought on many things these days. And I think
that we hear sound bites, and we move in a
world that we have a world that moves faster by
our communication, and our communication and our attention because of
these types of things is shorter than it's ever been.
And I think that people hear sound bites and things
and they don't do the research or the thought provoking
behind it.
Speaker 2: And so part of.
Speaker 1: The reason to have you on was to say how
do we move forward and what would you like to
see in terms of unified government. But also because I
do know and you have never ever been shy about
where you stand politically, I wanted to also say all
these things, of all the cry and libs, Oh they're this,
they're that. I wanted somebody to say factual things about
the election that sometimes we're not able to see, because
we get hit with so much in from so quickly
that we're not digesting it and we're not thinking that,
and we're not you know, not everybody is clearly a
doctorate in political science.
Speaker 5: And by the way, and in fairness to your listeners
and viewers, they may question whether I'm spouting fact or not.
I do like to present things in somewhat exaggerated manners
to get the point across here. But the type of
fact I'm talking about, Let's do a difference. Okay, Let's
say this was Liz Cheney that had won the presidency.
I would disagree on so many things that Liz Cheney
would believe in. Yes, enter policies, yes, but I wouldn't
I wouldn't believe that Liz Cheney and be convinced that
Liz Cheney was a threat to the country. Liz Cheney
is a patriot, a true patriot who understands the fidelity
to the Constitution. What the Mega supporters don't understand, and
maybe they don't want it in their grievance, in their
drinking the kool aid. His fucking gold sneakers and commission
watches and his Bible and his hats that are made
in China all fact, by the way, Maybe they don't
want fidelity. Maybe they want eighteen sixty four America again.
Maybe they want McCarthyism again. Maybe they want Jim Crow again.
Speaker 1: Yeah, I think sometimes I think that other Yes, I
hear you. I wonder if many people to feel like
that stuff is sort of hyperbole that he would spout, right.
I think he said we'll go after people who don't
step in line more or less I'm paraphrasing there. I
think he's threatened to so after media people he doesn't like,
and you know, Jimmy Kimmels and others like that. Whether
I but I always think that's like WWE wrestler talk,
and I unfortunately dismiss it and don't really even count
it as a real issue.
Speaker 2: And I wonder if most people do that as well.
Speaker 5: Well. They shouldn't because here's one of the other impending
dangers of Donald Trump returning to the presidency. And I'm
obviously not original and spouting this view. When he won
in twenty sixteen, Donald Trump was as surprised as anybody else.
They did not expect to win. I am convinced of that.
There was no game plan, there was no team in place,
so he did find himself having to rely on more
traditional republic Plicans in his first term, anything from how
do you pay rants? Previous account the generals that he
put in. Sure, there was a few looney tunes that
he appointed into the cabinet, but many of the people
were somewhat established or Republicans, or they were conservative, but
not mega mega, Well, that ain't going to happen this
time because what drives Trump. And even though his niece
has her own axe to grind, her analysis of her uncle,
the psychological analysis of her uncle's pretty sound. And I
have at least an amateur background in psychology myself that
underscores that this is a mentally disturbed, pathological, nar malignant
narcissist who is going to surround himself by enablers. Okay,
you're going to, I mean think about this. Do you
really want to see Robert Kennedy Junior, whose father must
be rolling over in his grave or going thank god
they shot me, directing health policy? Do you really want
that person engaged with the CDC? Do you want the
illegal immigrant Elon Musk, who started his own career as
an illegal immigrant from who can't who? Who? Whose businesses
aren't as successful as he lets on really running government efficiency.
Do you want that little that little poster child for
for or Nazism? His his immigration guy Stephen Miller, who
looks as psychotic as Donald Trump does. Really in a
serious position. Donald Trump is going to put nothing but
enablers around him. That means he's unchecked from within. A
good presidential staff checks the president from going against his
or her best interests and can block a president from
acting on their most evil, over zealous impulses. Trump will
not have that around him, and the Senate will pretty
much confirm whoever he wants.
Speaker 1: So what what would you so the apocalyptic outcome right, Well,
let me rephrase that, because I thought Trump put a
put forth an apocalyptic America if he didn't get in right,
we're being overrun by our borders and then and uh
immigration and things, and there were there are pockets of this.
I don't think they were eating cats and dogs, but
we can I can understand, uh bob.
Speaker 5: But the squirrels, the squirrels were really threatened. That's another
crazy that's another I just made that one out.
Speaker 1: No, I understand, but that's another crazy thing that's going on.
But the I guess when you say all that, boy
it it sounds very scary. There's no other way to
say that when you when you lay it out like that,
So these next four years are scary. I always kind
of felt like, how much does your life? And I
and that's as a political science professor may make you
itch when I say this. I always wonder how much
does your life really change by who's in the White House.
Speaker 5: Actually that's a really good question.
Speaker 1: Okay, because okay, I might no, no, that that was
my thing. I thought, how much does it really change
in this time? Directly to you? I always feel like
one thing we don't pay enough attention to is our
local politics, which seem to have a more a greater
impact on your everyday life.
Speaker 2: If that's accurate, well, I.
Speaker 5: Don't know, generally speaking. Generally speaking, frankly, who's in albody
and who's in DC has marginal impact on our day
to day.
Speaker 2: Life day to day.
Speaker 5: Right now, even I'm going to say something's going to
sound totally contrary to how I've been ranting, and some
of your listeners and viewers will say he's ranting Bill
wire you you, but I rant well informed? Uh hey,
by the way, I'm this bad on our own podcast too.
Speaker 1: No, I like I like this because I still think
that one of the things I've always wanted to do,
when I tried to do in radio and maybe less successfully,
was have intelligent discussion about things. And where there's often
this we need to have a discussion, Well, then let's
have It's it's it's great verbiage, but let's have it.
And that's what I feel like. This is at least
we're hearing from one side, right decide.
Speaker 5: Let me let me get back to your question. Yes,
and this is where I was saying. It's going to
sound contrary to my rant. You know what, Donald Trump
can do very little to really fuck me over unless
they really start purging people right exactly, because you know what,
when I'm white, I'm moderately affluent. My income is driven
from my annuities and social Security, Okay, and what little
bit of outside income I have I don't ray by
the way, So you know what will my day to
day life be affected other than some emotional affect. Yeah, right,
but you want but that's not enough for me. And
this is why the people who claim they voted for
Trump because of the economy guilty and as bad as
he is well for whatever bogus, bullshit reason they really gave.
I worry about the people who aren't you and me. Yeah,
I worry about the immigrant. I worry about the woman
who may bleed out. I worry about the trans gen
the trans person who is now as open season on.
I worry about the possibility of my gay friends losing
the right to love and marry. I worry about those
who can be affected by the demagoguery, by the hate,
by the the the what Trump empowers in the most
ugly part of people. That's why I react the way
and to the point I told you this off air,
I'm going to say it on air. To the point
today I told my son, we adopted our son from Korea,
and he is over the years has run into his
own problems with prejudice and discrimination and racism, that he
should get his affairs in order over the next year
or two, particularly the next year, watch it, and that
he should seriously consider immigrating to Canada, and particularly the
eastern part of Canada that has a great deal of diversity.
I told him, do not go into Western Canada, Canada,
because there's it fucked up as the people in Wyoming,
in Montana and the other Maga people. But I was,
But but again I was. I even told him, I said, Dale,
I never thought I would tell you this. I never
thought I would have to tell you this. But I said,
my life won't be affected, yours could be. And you
need to think about expatriating to Canada.
Speaker 1: Does that seem like an overstatement in a way or
you really you don't think so?
Speaker 5: No?
Speaker 2: No, okay, Hey, like, I don't know.
Speaker 1: I don't know, doc, because I've only been in this skin, right,
I don't know. And I the idea of I always
hear people say walking on another man's shoes. I can't
it's impossible. I have no idea.
Speaker 5: Let me give you an example. Yeah, when he was
working in a bank in Buffalo, New York, h he
had someone walk up to him totally in provokes saying
I hate all the fucking Chinese, right because he had
another one say, have a good day, mister Chang Chang,
like everybody who's Asian must be Chang, you know, And.
Speaker 1: Then we walk out and we laugh and get in
the car. I mean that that that's sort of what
that persson feels.
Speaker 5: Yeah, whow for saying that, yeah, he hasn't been stopped
by Asian like being stopped while black. He hasn't been
no no, no no out of him by some police officer.
But I do not think in this environment that it's
an overstatement, okay.
Speaker 2: That those things escalate.
Speaker 1: Look, I I have U certainly my minorities in my family, uh,
and I know that there's you know, concern over those
types of things. Or I mean, it's kind of hard
to say that the president didn't uphold, if nothing else,
white supremacists at one point in his administration where he
was not yeah, I mean you know, so I I
that that's not that's not that's you want to say that,
that's not fake news, that is that is that's true.
But I like to think in a way that can
we I wonder this Sometimes the pendulum swings so far
in one direction and then it starts to come back
into the other. And I'm not saying this so much politically,
but more into the idea of can't we just I
do believe on both sides many people and I saw
this a lot today on social media. Thankfully the political
ads are over. Thankfully I can stop here in the whatever.
But I do wonder will kindness come back into a
little bit, Will we be a little more tolerant? Will
people just sort of pause a little bit now as
you're saying, if the exact ample that the president puts forth,
you know, there are people and I don't know if
you'll agree with this or not, but I've heard people
say that lying became acceptable when Clinton said I did
not have sex with that woman. Now I go, I'm
not sure if that by that, but that it became
something that the president did, and it sort of trickles down.
Speaker 2: I don't know.
Speaker 5: By the way, yes, ain't the same thing. A blow
job isn't the same thing as not believing in the
rule of law. Any married man, Clughton a spot like
that is going to, particularly if you have a wife
like Hillary, is going to lie through their teeth to
try to avoid reprecations. Again, I'm still trying to have
some humor here, Bill.
Speaker 2: You no, I understand.
Speaker 5: It's not the same thing Bill Clinton did not here,
I'll give you a different one. I don't even think
that George W. Bush lie about weapons of mass destruction
in Iraq. Bigger lie. Yeah, Okay, I believe he was
lied too, okay, But I actually think George W. Bush
is probably a very honorable man that just to watch
the relationship he has with the Obamas now suggests that
there is a a that he's different than the caricature
we had of him as president. I think George, I
think w was was fooled, possibly by Dick Cheney and
some other of the neocons and others around him. And
I think he came to believe there are weapons of
mass destruction. But I don't think he I don't think
he lied about it intentionally. Trump is incapable of telling
the truth.
Speaker 2: Exactly.
Speaker 5: Yeah, I mean he is not. Oh okay. He can
claim today, oh I won that's the truth. Fine, But
when it comes to the larger points, no, and and
it's the it's the whole combination of of He's not
going to model good behavior. He's not capable of it.
He can read a teleprompter and then forget it thirty
seconds later. Now I'm going to go in another direction.
If we, you know, talk about Biden's decline, people hang
on to your seats because you're going to see such
a rapid cognitive decline in in Donald Trump between now
possibly when he's sworn in or within his first year,
that we will be in another constitutional crisis, and that
is whether to actually invoke, seriously invoke for the first time,
the twenty fifth Amendment.
Speaker 2: Yeah.
Speaker 1: Sorry, think that has never happened new No, I know
it's been bandied the bell, but I don't.
Speaker 2: Uh.
Speaker 1: Are those who feel like there's been some cognitive decline already?
Speaker 2: Uh you know?
Speaker 1: Yeah? Yeah, so I don't know. I don't know. I'm
clinging to this thing of it sounds so silly and
may be desperate that everything is always working out and
it's gonna work out and it's gonna be okay. And
I hope that that's the truth. But you can't you know,
you can't put a you can't put a happy sticker
over your gas gage.
Speaker 2: We need to see where we are and what we're.
Speaker 5: Dealing with, right, that's all under three a gallon for
gas today?
Speaker 2: Okay, first time in the now.
Speaker 5: Admittedly it was three dollars and my ten cents off
of BJ's, but still three dollars are a gallon of gas?
Not that bad? No, Uh? But but you know, Bill,
how don't I say this, I contrary to how your
listeners might be hearing it and your viewers by saying it,
I am not by nature like this.
Speaker 2: Okay, yeah, no, I know you're not.
Speaker 1: I I be passionate, though you're allowed to be passionate.
Speaker 2: Look, people are passionate on both sides.
Speaker 1: I'm sorry to interrupt, but I feel like sometimes one
of the things that has happened, and I think it
happened before President Trump, is.
Speaker 2: That, uh.
Speaker 1: I feel like this is one of these things where
people you're not wrong, you're dead fucking wrong, and so
therefore I can't even have a conversation we.
Speaker 5: Are. Okay, a couple of things. First, Like I said,
I'm gonna go back to what I was about to say.
I have lived through a number of political assassinations. I
have lived through Watergate, I have lived through Vietnam. I've
lived through Iran Contra. I lived through Ronald Reagan's early Alzheimer's.
I have lived through you know, these are the bullshitting
peachments of Bill Clinton, whether w you know, I have
never ever raised this level of concern in the outcome
of a presidential election, because every one of those individuals
who have met, everyone who has been president up to
Donald Trump, they all had personality issues. You don't become
president without some. But they weren't pathological. They weren't malignant.
Lyndon Johnson, on his worth days may have lied about
the Gulf of Tonkin, but the only thing Lyndon Johnson
really wanted to do was out FDR. FDR. His personality
drove him through his insecurities to try to be more
like FDR. He wanted to be out of Kennedy's shadow.
He wanted to be loved for himself. You know what,
he did a lot of good things with that messed
up personality. Frankly, Richard Nixon did a lot of good
things with his messed.
Speaker 2: Up person very very smart man, Richard.
Speaker 6: Dixon, Donald But they all still believed even though they
had power, they all believed in doing something right for
the country, not just right for themselves.
Speaker 5: They weren't pathological. Okay, now to your second point about
having discussions with people who disagree with you, I can
still do that, but you know what, I have to admit,
I'm increasingly drawing a line. I think people have to
defend why they voted for Donald Trump, why they're willing
to accept all that we know that's wrong with this man.
All that we know, and I cannot stay friends with
somebody who embraces hatred. I can't have a discussion with
somebody who denies their implicit biases and their fears. Those
people don't necessarily deserve to be talked to. What's the point. See,
you're asking for our traditional what you're asking for a
traditional differences between.
Speaker 2: Yes, mega.
Speaker 5: Isn't that it's not conservative.
Speaker 1: I just think that most people looked at this and
when okay, is it's not that bad? Yeah, he's got
these things, but it's not that bad. We'll get a
better economy, and you know, maybe he can cut the
deficit by two trillion dollars, as he said in some
speech somewhere, and those things would be good. I'm hoping
to a certain point that the other stuff is kept
in check. Maybe, but I don't know, and I think
I don't know at this time. I'm going with the
glass half full, not half empty. And maybe that's ignorant.
Speaker 5: That could be a God love you for doing it.
Speaker 1: I think in the South they say, bless your heart,
I mean, your idiot, but i's hard or you know,
with all of new respects. Yeah, I know, And I
think that most people but I I feel like that's
where I'm at today, and maybe that's to just go forward, because,
as we said, at least for us to your point,
at least for us as the president really isn't going
to impact my day to day life too much.
Speaker 2: Whoever said yes.
Speaker 5: And again and again, I'm not gonna you know, I'm
not gonna slip my wrists over this. You know I'm
not going to become suicidal over this. I have made
some conscious decisions. For example, I have I've taken Google
News off my phone. I've taken all my media stuff
off my phone. I'm avoiding the news. I don't want
to hear it. I don't want to hear about him.
I need that for a while. I I am thankful
that Huntery what he thinks he's entitled to. He can't
run for a third term. He has no power institution.
You can't do that, even though he might think he does.
But I don't know. But I also worry about what
happens in the world world. You know what, just Ukraine, goodbye,
Ukraine's gonna have. Ukraine's being handed to the Soviet Union.
Speaker 2: Why do you say that because I.
Speaker 5: Withdraw American support from Ukraine, and that is crucial. The
Europeans can't do it all alone.
Speaker 1: There's a lot of people who feel like you know,
and I do think this is a popular line of thought,
that why are we supporting a war in Ukraine when
we have so many problems domestically In that ninety million
dollars or whatever it was sent or I don't know
the number, forgive me, why wasn't he used domestically to improve.
Speaker 2: Home?
Speaker 1: And I think that having talked to somebody who did
a documentary on Ukraine, that this war started boy a
couple of years ago when they went into the small
countries that used to be part of the USSR that
don't have the means to stand up to them, and
took over and then slowly when they came down, And
that there is propaganda within Russia.
Speaker 2: And I don't know how accurate this is or not.
Speaker 1: I've never seen it, but I've been told by somebody
who was in Russia that there is propaganda that he
wanted to go and take over all the way as
far as he could to France or whatever. I don't know,
and so you go ahead.
Speaker 5: I'm not an international expert, but I do think that
the shift gears. I think Putin wants the old Soviet
Union back. Yeah he does, and and but but again.
I guess my main point is is is again. I
know I sound like I'm quoting kind of liberal catechism,
But you got to worry about a president who admires dictators.
You know, how about admiring Churchill? How about admiring Willie
Brown I think that was his name for the chance
the one of the chancellors of Germany. Why not, you know,
why not admire real leaders who who were strong but
yet protected their country and the world. Why not? Why
not embrace Rose Franklin Roosevelt, or hell even Ronald Reagan.
Speaker 6: You know.
Speaker 5: It's but but but but again, but but again what
you're saying. And in my own life it'll go on.
But I I can't help, but I can't hope. I
can't help, but hope to a degree that the people
who voted for Trump out of their own self interest
and let me give them fair, Oh okay, you didn't
consider the consequences. You considered only yourself. And as a
member of a civil society, part of our social contract
is to care for the other. We are not autonomous
beings in a civil society.
Speaker 2: Well, I was.
Speaker 1: Always told to look out for number one when I
was a kid.
Speaker 5: That's called capitalism.
Speaker 2: I thought, look out for number one.
Speaker 1: And the other was I think we've become a rather
narcissistic society myself.
Speaker 5: Well, and you know what, again, I don't want to go.
It's too many. Healthy narcissism is good. We all need
healthy narcissism. Healthy narcissism is what gives us the interest
in doing things, the interest in pushing ourselves, the interest.
You know. Healthy narcissism is something that actually our parents
nurture in us, whether they realize it or not, when
we're children, by affirming what we do. It's when that
affirmation doesn't occur that you end up with the malignant
type of narcissism of a Donald Trump. Okay, narcissism in
and of itself is not a bad thing, Okay, it's
it's it's certain types of narcissism. Oh yeah, and and
and no, no, and and again. You know, uh, read
my book. You'll find this out.
Speaker 2: Yeah, I I look, you wouldn't.
Speaker 1: You can call anything that's self driven narcissism, yes, I mean,
you know, to you going to work and spending your
money is part of moving the economy right, so that
but there's self interest in that.
Speaker 5: But what But but what I'm trying to get at too.
And here's one of the break here, here's why we're
gonna have troubles get achieving. Hereon let me watch me
get serious and what And they have the listener of
your go what the fuck? He can't sound you know
less than crazy. The one of the reason we're going
to have such a difficulty achieving what you would like
is because too many people have forgotten or never internalized
the social obligation we have to one in social reasons
one another. Because we live in the type of system
in which we live, one that is grounded on a
type of liberty that requires a type of reciprocity. You
live your life, I live mine. We use government, so
you can't harm me, I can't harm you. But then
government isn't to harm us either. We gather what we need,
but it's against the laws of nature to gather more
than we need. You know, we don't learn these things anymore.
We don't internalize these things anymore. We have forgotten that
we have have an obligation and a responsibility That's partly
why I'm willing to dismiss certain people now, because I
actually do believe they're probably beyond hope, that that core
maga person is never going to want to do anything
but grievance is never going to want to accept their
social responsibility, not to others just like them or who
look like them, but to everyone within our society, women, gays,
trans evangelicals, conservatives, liberals, whatever.
Speaker 2: It's interesting.
Speaker 5: Our culture is broken down. Our common culture has broken down.
Speaker 1: It's interesting. I hadn't thought of it that way because
I know people who were certainly, and I think obviously
there were many that filled the dot in. I would
say pull the lever, but I don't think we do
that anymore. Fill the dot in for Trump, and I
think a lot of it was I wouldn't break bread
with this man. But and they're looking at that one issue,
and I feel like, you know, it's almost a la carte.
And that's where I don't know if the Democrats put
up the right part. I don't know. I don't know
what the story is, but I to my thing is
it's over and this is what we have. How do
we make the best of that? And I don't.
Speaker 5: I would argue it's not over. It is just begun.
Speaker 1: See I like the way I think so much better.
It's such happy I got. You know, I'm liking it's
the small.
Speaker 2: World ride, Doc. You're bringing me down.
Speaker 5: Part of my part of my role in life is
to tear people's dreams of the hopes down.
Speaker 2: No, it's not.
Speaker 5: No, I was showing them how they're wrong.
Speaker 1: Well, I can understand that, and that that's part of
the thing. Is like I needed. I. I hesitated at
first because I thought, I'm not sure how this will
go over, but I go, boy, I'm interested to hear.
I'm interested to hear why.
Speaker 5: You and by the way, you were listeners might as
well well know this too, and full of your listeners viewers.
I was really hesitant to do this show.
Speaker 2: I know you were.
Speaker 1: I know you were, and I appreciate you doing it,
and I knew that you were.
Speaker 5: You were bothered Bill for you, for you, I was
spawned Satan's love job.
Speaker 1: No, you wouldn't, and I don't want to know you wouldn't.
Please tell say that, well, Doctor Ballards. I think that
a lot has been said, and I'm sure that there
are some people that are rolling their eyes or getting
you know, sitting behind their keyboards whatever. That's fine, But
I think that having some insight as to uh, you know,
if you were a supporter, how is the other side
and how do we move forward? And I think a
lot has been said there and I'm not sure. I'm
not sure that we have come to that conclusion. I
don't think we have.
Speaker 5: But may I end with this, snow Bill. Yes, I
hope I'm wrong.
Speaker 1: Yeah, I understand, I understand, Yes I do. Yeah, I
hope you are too. I hope you are too. And
and you know there is a piece of me is
that you know, uh whatever you whatever reason a person
voted for Trump, I hope they hold that and hold
them accountable to that as as best you can, as
best you can, that would.
Speaker 2: Be my wish. But I don't know.
Speaker 5: You have the last word.
Speaker 1: Well, I'm just going to say it was a pleasure
seeing you in your workout clothes that matched the Bilified logo.
I think that's wonderful.
Speaker 5: And maybe next time it'll say Bilified on it.
Speaker 2: I think we have to get you one of those,
for sure.
Speaker 1: And I do appreciate your time, and I know that
this was not something that you were exceptionally excited to do.
But I do appreciate you doing it, and I like
the getting inside the mind.
Speaker 5: A bit, and you always make a fun bill, so well,
thank you. I'm always happy to do it for you.
Speaker 2: All right, Well, thank you, doctor Bowers. Have a nice
night YouTube. Bye bye. There he goes doctor Bowers. Interesting.
Speaker 1: And I know that there are people that I'm getting
all kinds of there's this is like control center here
where I sit. I have, you know, feeds where I
can see chats.
Speaker 2: I'm gay.
Speaker 1: I have my phone that's been blowing up with text
and calls. I have just been watching all this, and
I know that there are people that are upset and angry.
But try if if the idea is a discussion, if
that's the idea, if we say, if we could just
come together, and I for people on both sides of
the I'll say that then we need to know why
somebody's so vehemently that way, and that at least we
have a starting point. Would that be fair to say?
I believe it is. And I will leave you with this,
John Stewart, last night I thought had kind of a.
Speaker 7: Fair Here's what we know is that we don't really
know anything, and that we're going to come out of
this election and we're going to make all kinds of
pronouncements about what this country is and what this world is.
And the truth is, we're not really going to know shit,
and we're going to make it seem like this is
the finality of our civilization and this and thing. We're
all going to have to wake up tomorrow morning and
work like hell to move the world to the place
that we prefer it to be. And I just want
to point out, just as a matter of perspective, that
the lessons that our pundits take away from these results,
that they will pronounce with certainty, will be wrong. And
we have to remember that if you're in two thousand
and eight, when Barack Obama.
Speaker 8: Won, there's no question that this is the beginning the
first election of the future, really, and I think we
are moving towards a post racial America.
Speaker 7: Yeah, that lasted a day, and then, of course, in
twenty twelve, Obama won again, and the lesson was.
Speaker 5: The GOP needs to send a powerful signal to Hispanic
voters that the party respects them.
Speaker 7: That that was the lesson they learned after that victory.
Speaker 2: And there was certain of it.
Speaker 7: And send a powerful signal to the Hispanic community the
GOP did.
Speaker 1: When Mexico sends his people, they're bringing drugs, they're bringing crime,
their rapists.
Speaker 7: Which apparently was the winning message, and that taught Democrats
in twenty sixteen.
Speaker 5: What maybe what the Democrats we'll be looking for is
somebody with some inside experience. But who's a generation younger.
Speaker 2: It's obviously going to be younger. It's going to be
from a new generation.
Speaker 7: Need I say it to the.
Speaker 3: Great honor and humility, I accept this nomination.
Speaker 7: That turned out to be a winning message again which
led to an insurrection.
Speaker 5: And the lesson from.
Speaker 7: That was when Donald Trump leaves office on Wednesday morning,
he will leave Washington a pariah.
Speaker 5: Donald Trump will never be allowed to set foot in
the Capitol again, never.
Speaker 2: Ever. My point is this, but this is in the end.
Speaker 7: I promise you, this is not the end. And we
have to regroup and we have to continue to fight
and continue to work day in and day out to
create the better society for our children, for this world,
for this country that we know is possible.
Speaker 2: It's possible.
Speaker 1: Here's what I want to want to add to that.
One last thing that Stuart said. I feel like that's
what we should be doing already.
Speaker 2: Every day.
Speaker 1: We should try to be banking it a better society
every single day. And I think that this stuff gets
a little inflamed. I think that that things are inflamed
right now. I think they're inflamed on both sides. I
think the ignorance is on both sides at times, and
we need to just kind of step back and take
those last words and make it a better society for all.
And on that note, wrap it up for doctor Bauers
for the three hundred and sixty five comments that I
haven't gone through yet. It's on all the different platforms.
I appreciate that.
Speaker 2: I'm Bill Moran. I'll see you tomorrow. I hold you
didn't know what to do.
Speaker 1: I'm turning a TV.
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