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Speaker 1: You're listening to the paranorl UK Radio network and this

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is six Degrees of John Keel. Hello and welcome to

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the six Degrees of John Kiel podcast. I'm your host

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Barbara Fisher. Tonight I'm talking with Carly Lapham Latham Latham.

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See you good. I told you I'm professional people. I

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really am Latham. And she goes by the village to

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row which on Instagram. She's a very interesting person. And

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we had just been talking about what's haunted houses or

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people or both, and so why don't you jump in

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with your haunted house.

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Speaker 2: Story, my haunted house story. I am really excited for

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this because I just had a phone call with my realtor.

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The house in question is for sale at the moment.

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I'm not gonna say where, because if you buy that house, like,

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that's on you, buddy. You know that's not that's not

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my problem anymore. But I would say that I am

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someone that has always been sensitive, but I lacked the

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information and the understanding of what going on. So like

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I can look back at my life and pinpoint several

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several times when I felt like I wasn't alone, Like

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I had experiences that I couldn't explain. But I was

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raised Mormon, so I was raised in a very black

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and white this is what's real, this is what's not religion,

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And as a result, when I had these experiences, I

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almost always would chalk them up to anxiety like that

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that it was the only way that I had to

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interpret what was going on. Is I would be alone

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in a room and be feeling watched and I had

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no explanation for it other than I must have watched

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too many horror movies. You know, Like I am an

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anxious person that runs in my family. So like that's

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that's logical, right. So fast forward to my adult years.

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I left the Mormon religion, which is the whole thing.

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Speaker 1: Yeah thing, it's a big thing.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, it's a big thing. It was hard on my family,

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It was hard on a lot of the people that

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I was friends with. It's the reason that I'm not

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active on Facebook is because I have a Facebook account.

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But Facebook is where all of my Mormon people live,

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and so I just I know that strategically going on

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Facebook is good for me, but I avoid it at

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all costs. So it is fair, you know, Facebook is

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kind of an ick place. Anyways, So I left the

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Mormon religion. And within a couple of years, I moved

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to Florida. And I had lived in Texas essentially my

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whole life. So like we're talking born into this religion,

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left it, and then left my home state behind in

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a very short amount of time. Okay, So I got

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to Florida and I am fully an atheist at this point.

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I don't believe in anything. If you know anything about Mormonism,

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it is that they teach that that is the one

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true church, and they actually will actively tell you if

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this isn't true, nothing is. So like I worked through

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that conditioning. I had that moment where I was like,

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this religion, this story that I've been told my entire life,

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there's no basis in reality. This isn't real. I don't

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have to stick with this, right And it was huge

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for me because I had always been very unhappy within Mormonism.

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I did not fit in like I'm here on this podcast.

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Do you think that I fit in with Mormonism? Like

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I didn't fit in there. I didn't really fit in

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super well with my family, like I've always been a

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little bit odd, you know. And so I'm moving into

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this house and almost immediately I started noticing strange things

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that like I felt my whole life, but they were

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really amplified in this house. Like one of the first

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nights that I was alone, which was very few and

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far between. I at the time, I was a military spouse.

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I my ex was working for SpaceX, and so like

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my entire existence was being a stay at home mom

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to my kids to be there while he was out

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taking care of business. Right, other military spouses and even

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SpaceX wives will say the same thing. There's not a

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lot of flexible in our lives because we tend to

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just like revolve around what's happening with our spouses at

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the time. Right, So I didn't get a lot of

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time to myself. I was alone very rarely, and so

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in the house in Florida, I started having these moments

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where I was alone for the first time and I

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was getting really it wasn't even like jumpy. It was

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more like it was almost like when you're watching a

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horror movie and the main character knows that she's being

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watched and is like looking around and there's like there's

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a bad guy lurking around the corner. Right. It's that

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type of feeling, except that I really was alone, and

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so I'd be looking around my house and being like,

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I don't understand what the problem is. But it was

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intensified to a degree that I had never felt before.

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So it even got to the point where, like, I

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was afraid to be in the main house by myself.

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So if I was alone, which again, I live to

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be alone. I love, I love my children, and I

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love I love when the house is to myself, Like

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I thrive in alone time. I don't like. I don't

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like it when my house is too loud or too

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crowded or too busy, which is hilarious because I homeschool

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my kids, so it's always all of the above, right,

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But I would go into my bedroom and I was

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scared to the degree that I was locking myself in

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my bedroom and just like kind of hanging out there

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and watching TV in bed until my kids would come home. Right,

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So this is happening. And then meanwhile I meet these

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new friends in the neighborhood I had joined. I homeschool

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my kids, so before we moved to Florida, I did

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a lot of research on homeschool groups, on trying to

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find ways for us to get involved in the community.

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So it wouldn't be as hard of a transition as

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you know, it's a pretty big move. So I met

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these women and they started talking about birth charts and

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things that I was like, Okay, I like, I'm a

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little bit familiar, but I also don't know because keep

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in mind, I'm an ex Mormon. Mormons don't talk about

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any of those things ever. Ever X Mormon atheist at

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this point, Okay, so I am forever fucking got my feet,

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Like it is just a rite of passage. I will

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injure my feet in the most bizarre and ridiculous manners ever. Ever, Like,

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I don't have a single story that I like, that's

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that makes sense. No, it's the dumbest stories that lead

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me to injuring my feet. So this particular day, I'm

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walking up the stairs and I stubbed my big toe

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and that's ridiculous. But I remember at the time being like, oh,

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you know, and then just going about my day. I

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took the kids swimming, we went for a walk around

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the neighborhood with our new friends. We're doing this, We're

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doing that. I put the kids to bed, I at

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my My ex at the time was working night shifts,

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so he was gone. So I like tucked the kids

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in and I am laying in bed, and my foot

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starts to hurt so bad, like it's just getting worse

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and worse and worse. And the longer that I sit there,

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the worse the pain is becoming. And I'm like, I

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you know this is this is ridiculous. I my fucking

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clumsy ass, right. So I'm like, okay, I'm gonna get up.

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I'm gonna get some ibuprofen. My bedroom was on the

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second story, so I opened the door to my bedroom

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and there was like a little hallway and a landing area.

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So I take a few steps down the hallway. I'm

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almost to the landing area, and I just get hit

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by this wall of fear. So I stood there and

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I I was like, I don't know how to process

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what I'm feeling right now, because I was I was

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aware that I was more afraid than the situation warranted,

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because I'm like looking around and I'm like, I'm alone.

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I'm alone right now. I put my children to bed,

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like they are in their bedrooms. There is no reason

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for me to feel this afraid. And so I tried

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to take another step, and the fear just intensified to

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the level that I was like, I don't know what

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to do here. So I went back into my bedroom

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and I was like, I guess I'm just gonna wait

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this out, like, you know, what do you even do here? So,

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like that night was dramatic. And then the next day

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had I had mentioned this to my new friends because

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it just was such a bewildering experience for me that

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like I didn't have any way to logically explain what

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had happened to me, Like, yes, I am prone to anxiety.

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I've always been prone to anxiety, but I've never had

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that experience where I was rooted to the spot petrified

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for seemingly no reason.

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Speaker 1: Right, So you had none of the anxiety thought.

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Speaker 2: Loops, none of the anxiety thought loops. Right.

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Speaker 1: Oh that I'm so glad you got. That doesn't feel right.

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Speaker 2: It didn't feel right, but there also wasn't a reason

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for it to feel wrong. Like, you know, I do

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have anxiety thought loops when I'm alone, but they always

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take a very specific pattern, Like I could tell you

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exactly what I worry about when I'm alone, and that night,

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none of those things were happening. It just was my

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foot hurt so bad, and I was like looking at

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my empty house and being like I don't understand, like

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what is happening to me because there is no reason

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to feel this way, and like there were no traumatic

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other than the move, which you could count as traumatic,

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but like it really wasn't that bad, you know what

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I mean, Like, yeah, it was sad, it was really

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hard to leave my home, it was hard to leave

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my friends, but it wasn't like a traumatic move. So

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I mentioned it to my friends and they started encouraging

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me to have a psychic that they know come to

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my house and clear it. And it was really resistant

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to the idea for a little while because I was

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like I don't believe in that. That's perfectly logical, you know, yeah, yeah, yeah.

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So I was like, I don't know. That seems like

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a stretch, like I've always been anxious, Like I'm sure,

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I'm sure that there's some explanation. But one one of

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like another night, I was laying in my bed and

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I was like, what if what if my kids experienced

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something like that? And I was like, you know, I

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don't know what happened to me. I don't I can't

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explain why I felt this level of fear, but I

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am an adult. What if my kids had that same experience?

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And then I was like, okay, that was hard for me.

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I'm in my thirties. I'm thirty five now, so I

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probably was like I don't know earlier thirties, right, Like,

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if it made that level of an impact on me,

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what would it do to my kids? So that was

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the motivating factor to call this woman to my house,

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and that alone was an entire experience because she came

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over and she's blessing my house with holy water, She's

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calling archangel Michael, like she's saying these prayers, these rights

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that I am not familiar with because I was raised Mormon,

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and Mormons don't have the archangels, they don't have holy water,

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they don't do they don't even really talk about ghosts.

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So like all of this, and I'm just following her

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through my house and my eyes are like wide as

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fucking saucers. I'm like, okay, okay. But then she sat

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down with me in my living room and she was like,

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I would love to do a reading with you, and

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she pulled out some oracle cards, and mind you, by

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this point, it's been like maybe a month and a half.

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It hasn't been a whole lot of time in Florida.

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So the friends who referred this woman don't know all

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that much about me. And I say that because, like,

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i am like open to a degree, but I'm also

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very hard to get to know. I am very I'm

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like a weird mixture of open and closed off. Like

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you're gonna have a few good conversations with me and

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then it's just gonna be like, what happened. That's weird.

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And I'm like, I know, sorry, Like I don't know

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what to tell you about that, but so and I

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say that not as like a cautionary tale, but to

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say that this woman sat down in front of me

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and told me things about myself that like I hadn't

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even told some of my very closest friends. There was

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literally no way that she could have known these things

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about me. She was telling me deeply personal details about

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my thoughts and my feelings, and I was like, what

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the fuck.

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Speaker 1: Yeah, I'm sorry, I've had that happen with with psychics readers,

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and it's just like but I.

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Speaker 2: Wait, wait, how did how how did you know that

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about me? Though you know, like like yeah, I'm still

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stuck on. I barely admit this to myself. How do

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you like what? You know? It was that level of

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So she stopped mid reading and she reached her bag

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and she handed me a deck of her own cards

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and was like, they're telling me that you're going to

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need these. These are going to be important for you, right.

239
00:16:07,360 --> 00:16:10,279
And it's like a movie moment when I say it

240
00:16:10,360 --> 00:16:12,440
like that, but like if you were there in reality,

241
00:16:12,519 --> 00:16:14,919
it was like awkward as shit, because if people can

242
00:16:15,000 --> 00:16:16,919
be presents, I don't know what to do with them,

243
00:16:17,120 --> 00:16:19,519
and so I'm just like, thank you.

244
00:16:19,679 --> 00:16:20,200
Speaker 1: It's awkward.

245
00:16:20,360 --> 00:16:20,919
Speaker 2: It's awkward.

246
00:16:21,080 --> 00:16:24,639
Speaker 1: You know, it's awkward, especially if it's a stranger. Then

247
00:16:24,679 --> 00:16:26,840
it's like one hundred times off.

248
00:16:27,200 --> 00:16:32,559
Speaker 2: Yeah, a stranger who's just told you about very very detailed,

249
00:16:33,519 --> 00:16:36,600
very personal details about your life. Right, And then she's

250
00:16:36,679 --> 00:16:38,720
just like, here you go, you're gonna need these. I'm like,

251
00:16:38,759 --> 00:16:41,000
what the fuck? Like what do I even do with these?

252
00:16:41,399 --> 00:16:43,320
I don't know what these are. It was a deck

253
00:16:43,320 --> 00:16:47,720
of angel cards by Dorian Virtue. I don't have them

254
00:16:47,720 --> 00:16:50,399
anymore because I gave them to a friend. I don't

255
00:16:50,399 --> 00:16:51,799
know if you can tell this about me, but I'm

256
00:16:51,799 --> 00:16:55,879
not super religious. I use them for a really long time,

257
00:16:56,039 --> 00:16:57,679
and then I passed them on to one of my

258
00:16:57,720 --> 00:17:02,279
best friends because they seemed better suited for her. But

259
00:17:03,039 --> 00:17:04,880
either way, it was a big It was a big

260
00:17:04,920 --> 00:17:08,559
turning moment for me. So now I had these cards

261
00:17:08,799 --> 00:17:11,519
and I was like, awesome, I don't know how to

262
00:17:11,640 --> 00:17:15,680
use these, and so like it really wasn't like like

263
00:17:15,759 --> 00:17:19,519
I wasn't getting like instruction or anything. I just was like, Okay, well,

264
00:17:19,559 --> 00:17:22,359
I'm gonna shuffle these cards and I'm going to pull

265
00:17:22,400 --> 00:17:25,240
one and I'm gonna see what happens. And then every

266
00:17:25,359 --> 00:17:27,680
time I was pulling them, I had a little journal

267
00:17:27,720 --> 00:17:29,960
and I was writing on the card and what the

268
00:17:30,039 --> 00:17:32,319
guide book said and how I thought it fit into

269
00:17:32,359 --> 00:17:35,119
my life. And I kind of taught myself how to

270
00:17:35,160 --> 00:17:41,920
read like that, which then opened the door for mediumship

271
00:17:42,000 --> 00:17:47,559
and more hauntings, because yes, because they all they all

272
00:17:47,599 --> 00:17:53,079
go together. But my like looking back on it now,

273
00:17:53,119 --> 00:17:55,680
like from wearing sitting out, I don't live in Florida anymore,

274
00:17:55,880 --> 00:17:58,759
but I can look back at that time period of

275
00:17:58,799 --> 00:18:00,799
my life and be like, Yeah, all of these things

276
00:18:00,839 --> 00:18:03,759
needed to happen for me to be in that exact

277
00:18:03,799 --> 00:18:08,920
moment ready to understand and to receive the information that

278
00:18:08,960 --> 00:18:12,160
I was going to be given, because if that same

279
00:18:12,240 --> 00:18:15,880
experience had happened in my house in Texas, even as

280
00:18:15,880 --> 00:18:19,240
an ex Mormon, I would have been a fresh ex

281
00:18:19,319 --> 00:18:23,400
Mormon and been like, no, sorry, I don't believe in that.

282
00:18:23,400 --> 00:18:26,440
That's just like a weird it's a weird coincidence. And

283
00:18:26,440 --> 00:18:30,480
now I believe in all sorts of crazy shits. It's like.

284
00:18:32,279 --> 00:18:33,160
Speaker 1: Just like the rest of it.

285
00:18:33,319 --> 00:18:35,319
Speaker 2: I know, I know. I like to say I'm a

286
00:18:35,359 --> 00:18:39,359
skeptical believer. Now I'm like Molder and Scully combined because

287
00:18:39,359 --> 00:18:43,000
I go to the logical side first, and if I

288
00:18:43,039 --> 00:18:47,079
can't disprove it, then I move into the okay, what

289
00:18:47,200 --> 00:18:53,920
could it be? Area? But yeah, that house was. It's

290
00:18:54,000 --> 00:18:56,880
the ongoing debate is it the person or is it

291
00:18:56,960 --> 00:19:00,920
the house? And in my case, I think it both.

292
00:19:01,079 --> 00:19:03,920
I think I've always been a little bit more aware,

293
00:19:04,160 --> 00:19:08,839
a little bit more attuned. I think I think I

294
00:19:08,880 --> 00:19:11,599
can't tell you for sure, but I think that when

295
00:19:11,599 --> 00:19:14,519
I was little, I saw something that scared me enough

296
00:19:14,559 --> 00:19:18,880
that I've like shut down that part of my senses

297
00:19:18,960 --> 00:19:23,759
because I don't see. Occasionally I hear, but very rarely,

298
00:19:23,839 --> 00:19:26,920
so like I have a very limited skill set with

299
00:19:26,960 --> 00:19:29,400
which I can communicate with the other side, and that

300
00:19:29,480 --> 00:19:33,720
works for me, you know, I'm not, so it makes

301
00:19:33,720 --> 00:19:36,640
it a little bit more frustrating sometimes if I'm trying

302
00:19:36,680 --> 00:19:40,279
to figure something out and it's like, you know, you're

303
00:19:40,319 --> 00:19:42,880
talking to someone shouting at you while your eyes are

304
00:19:42,880 --> 00:19:47,039
closed and ears are plugged. But it's still it's still

305
00:19:47,079 --> 00:19:51,039
satisfying in a way. But like I can, I can

306
00:19:51,160 --> 00:19:53,799
look back at my life and be like, was this

307
00:19:54,240 --> 00:19:57,880
were you really afraid? Or was that potentially a ghost

308
00:19:58,000 --> 00:20:02,200
interacting with you and you perceived it as fear because

309
00:20:02,200 --> 00:20:05,680
there's no way to explain why, because if you can't

310
00:20:05,680 --> 00:20:08,200
see and you can't hear, and you only feel someone

311
00:20:08,319 --> 00:20:11,559
in your space, it's like jarring, you know.

312
00:20:11,920 --> 00:20:14,519
Speaker 1: Mm hmm, and there's clearly no one and.

313
00:20:14,440 --> 00:20:18,079
Speaker 2: There's clearly no one else, right, That's yeah, it's a

314
00:20:18,119 --> 00:20:21,880
huge one. Yeah, yeah, it's it's uncomfortable.

315
00:20:22,720 --> 00:20:24,160
Speaker 1: So yeah, it's.

316
00:20:25,640 --> 00:20:28,759
Speaker 2: I think I've always been predisposed. But once I moved

317
00:20:28,839 --> 00:20:31,039
into the house in Florida and I kind of had

318
00:20:31,039 --> 00:20:36,440
that jolt of like waking up and being like, Okay,

319
00:20:36,799 --> 00:20:39,839
so Mormonism is not real, but apparently ghosts are a thing,

320
00:20:40,160 --> 00:20:43,200
and like working through all that and opening my mind

321
00:20:43,400 --> 00:20:47,640
and kind of stepping into the person that I always was,

322
00:20:48,039 --> 00:20:49,839
or I was always meant to be in like a

323
00:20:49,880 --> 00:20:54,599
weird way. But it like all kind of figuring it

324
00:20:54,640 --> 00:20:58,559
out as I go. Right. So the next thing that

325
00:20:58,599 --> 00:21:04,319
happened is I my foot. So again we got two

326
00:21:04,359 --> 00:21:08,279
foot stories in the same sitting. My origin story involves

327
00:21:08,319 --> 00:21:13,599
a lot of feet, which is uncomfortable for all of us. No,

328
00:21:13,680 --> 00:21:17,240
but I one of my kids dropped it seriously, was

329
00:21:17,240 --> 00:21:19,720
like a nickel size amount of milk. And I walked

330
00:21:19,759 --> 00:21:21,480
past it, and I was like, I should wipe up

331
00:21:21,480 --> 00:21:24,119
that milk. And then I got busy doing mom.

332
00:21:24,000 --> 00:21:26,119
Speaker 1: Things and and you skid it on it.

333
00:21:26,480 --> 00:21:30,519
Speaker 2: That's exactly what happened. I skid on it. I I

334
00:21:30,599 --> 00:21:32,680
fractured the bones on the top of my foot, and

335
00:21:32,720 --> 00:21:35,839
I broke our SR didn't break. I tore the muscles

336
00:21:35,880 --> 00:21:38,960
and the ligaments. Apparently. It was very close to like

337
00:21:39,599 --> 00:21:43,440
being one of those foot injuries that like you're fucked,

338
00:21:43,640 --> 00:21:44,000
you know.

339
00:21:44,400 --> 00:21:46,599
Speaker 1: It was like you're just gonna forever.

340
00:21:46,920 --> 00:21:49,240
Speaker 2: Yeah, there was an actual name for it. I can't

341
00:21:49,279 --> 00:21:53,240
remember what it was called anymore, but I my doctor

342
00:21:53,319 --> 00:21:57,200
always gave me this pain scale question based on pennies,

343
00:21:57,319 --> 00:21:59,880
and I just like every time I went there, I

344
00:22:00,039 --> 00:22:02,640
forgot everything that he told me, because he was always like,

345
00:22:02,720 --> 00:22:05,319
since the last time you were here, on a scale

346
00:22:05,359 --> 00:22:07,880
from one two hundred pennies, how many pennies do you

347
00:22:07,960 --> 00:22:11,400
have left? And I was like, I'm bad at answering.

348
00:22:11,279 --> 00:22:14,319
Speaker 1: One to ten pages word problem, you.

349
00:22:14,279 --> 00:22:16,960
Speaker 2: Know what, Like yeah, like look at me. I'm not

350
00:22:17,039 --> 00:22:21,960
made for math. I'm not a math person. And I

351
00:22:22,000 --> 00:22:24,240
would try to describe what I was feeling and he

352
00:22:24,319 --> 00:22:26,319
was like, no, just answer the questions.

353
00:22:25,920 --> 00:22:28,680
Speaker 1: Like but I don't understand this.

354
00:22:28,799 --> 00:22:30,759
Speaker 2: I don't know what you want from me. But so

355
00:22:31,000 --> 00:22:33,920
I broke my foot. I spent several weeks in a cast.

356
00:22:34,240 --> 00:22:38,880
I it was right before Halloween, and so I started

357
00:22:38,880 --> 00:22:42,799
watching ghost hunting shows naturally, and that's what you do

358
00:22:42,839 --> 00:22:44,759
when you exactly that's what you do when you break

359
00:22:44,759 --> 00:22:47,559
your foot right before Halloween, right like I couldn't. It

360
00:22:47,640 --> 00:22:50,799
was also during COVID, so this is twenty twenty. I

361
00:22:51,200 --> 00:22:54,000
my foots my foot's in a boot, my right foot,

362
00:22:54,119 --> 00:22:57,319
and so you can't drive when your right foot's in

363
00:22:57,359 --> 00:23:00,440
a boost, Like there just is nothing to do. So

364
00:23:00,519 --> 00:23:03,079
I start watching these ghost hunting shows. And I was like,

365
00:23:03,160 --> 00:23:05,920
why is this explaining my life to me? Like the

366
00:23:05,920 --> 00:23:09,480
more I'm watching, the more stories I'm hearing and people

367
00:23:09,519 --> 00:23:15,079
describing feeling entities around them, I'm like, what the fuck?

368
00:23:15,519 --> 00:23:17,960
Speaker 1: Like I was sorry what it was?

369
00:23:18,200 --> 00:23:21,559
Speaker 2: I'm like, is that are you explaining my life to

370
00:23:21,599 --> 00:23:23,640
me right now? Like what is even happening? So I

371
00:23:24,279 --> 00:23:27,960
like it was the first moment where like I had

372
00:23:27,960 --> 00:23:31,279
a psychic come to my house, Like I understand how this.

373
00:23:31,319 --> 00:23:32,839
So I have a psychic come to my house to

374
00:23:32,880 --> 00:23:35,160
clear it because it was haunted as shit. And then

375
00:23:35,279 --> 00:23:38,640
I'm still like in this moment of like wait a second,

376
00:23:39,279 --> 00:23:44,400
what And so I've learned to read cards by now

377
00:23:44,440 --> 00:23:49,680
I'm reading tarot and oracle like fairly confidently. And I

378
00:23:49,720 --> 00:23:55,000
saw a paranormal investigator out in Florida post on Instagram

379
00:23:55,039 --> 00:23:58,599
like I'm going to do this investigation. Here is this

380
00:23:58,720 --> 00:24:02,079
taro spread? Anybody wants to pull any cards ahead of

381
00:24:02,079 --> 00:24:07,000
my investigation? Like here it is? You know, here it is,

382
00:24:07,599 --> 00:24:09,559
see what you get? And so I was like, well,

383
00:24:09,839 --> 00:24:11,880
what else do I have to do right now? My

384
00:24:11,920 --> 00:24:15,799
foot's broken, you know, and I have a I have

385
00:24:15,839 --> 00:24:18,640
a deck that's one of my favorites to use for mediumship.

386
00:24:18,680 --> 00:24:22,359
It's called art History tarot for past lives. It's a

387
00:24:22,400 --> 00:24:27,519
deck specifically made to help you tune into your past lives,

388
00:24:27,960 --> 00:24:31,279
but it works very well for mediumship. So I had

389
00:24:31,359 --> 00:24:34,880
that deck and I was like, sure, I'm going to

390
00:24:34,920 --> 00:24:38,680
give it a go. So I followed the prompts and

391
00:24:38,759 --> 00:24:42,960
I wrote it up and later I heard back from

392
00:24:43,039 --> 00:24:45,519
him and he was like, that actually was you know?

393
00:24:46,480 --> 00:24:49,720
That was there was some accuracy there, and I was like, sweet,

394
00:24:50,240 --> 00:24:52,160
this is something I didn't know that I could do,

395
00:24:52,200 --> 00:24:56,240
but now I know this, and it ended up being

396
00:24:57,039 --> 00:25:02,200
a really great relationship. I met that person. It's Eric

397
00:25:02,480 --> 00:25:05,799
ghost Hunter. South ghost Hunter of South Florida. Was a

398
00:25:05,799 --> 00:25:07,920
part of a or is a part of a paranormal

399
00:25:07,960 --> 00:25:11,079
team or party paranormal, so I got to know a

400
00:25:11,079 --> 00:25:14,680
lot of them. I pulled from them ahead of pulled

401
00:25:14,720 --> 00:25:18,039
for them, ahead of some other investigations, and I went

402
00:25:18,079 --> 00:25:20,160
out into the field with them a lot and I

403
00:25:20,200 --> 00:25:23,799
would pull cards while they were using their devices. And

404
00:25:24,960 --> 00:25:29,440
that's probably my favorite thing still to this day, because like,

405
00:25:29,519 --> 00:25:32,319
I miss doing that a lot because it really is

406
00:25:32,440 --> 00:25:36,440
cool to sit there and most of the time, if

407
00:25:36,480 --> 00:25:42,160
I am pulling cards for a haunting, I will, almost

408
00:25:42,200 --> 00:25:45,160
to an obnoxious degree, say I'm not sure about this.

409
00:25:45,400 --> 00:25:51,519
But and I do that not because I doubt myself,

410
00:25:51,599 --> 00:25:54,680
but because the logical part of my brain will not

411
00:25:54,920 --> 00:26:01,440
shut itself off until I have given myself permission to say,

412
00:26:01,720 --> 00:26:04,880
to process, to verbally process this information that I have

413
00:26:05,000 --> 00:26:07,960
no way of knowing. Right. So, like, if you're with

414
00:26:08,000 --> 00:26:10,880
me on an investigation, I will say, I will tell

415
00:26:10,880 --> 00:26:13,640
you what the cards mean, and then I will say,

416
00:26:13,680 --> 00:26:15,920
I'm not sure about this, but this is what I think.

417
00:26:16,400 --> 00:26:19,680
And you know, occasionally it rubs people the wrong way,

418
00:26:20,079 --> 00:26:22,400
which is why I now give my disclaimer that I'm like.

419
00:26:22,880 --> 00:26:26,039
It's not that I think I'm like making it up.

420
00:26:26,160 --> 00:26:29,559
It's just I'm hardwired for that black and white thinking.

421
00:26:29,839 --> 00:26:33,759
I'm not the gray area doesn't come easily to me.

422
00:26:33,960 --> 00:26:37,880
So if I'm stepping into the gray area willingly, I

423
00:26:38,000 --> 00:26:41,440
have to give myself that caveat that I could be wrong, right,

424
00:26:41,680 --> 00:26:47,519
But but it was and still is really rewarding. When

425
00:26:48,799 --> 00:26:52,160
I am sitting there like sprawled in the fucking dirt sometimes,

426
00:26:52,400 --> 00:26:55,000
or like I'm usually on the floor. I almost never

427
00:26:55,039 --> 00:26:57,119
sat at the table. Why I don't know, I'm just

428
00:26:57,240 --> 00:26:59,839
on the floor. I have cards everywhere, and I'm spouting

429
00:27:00,200 --> 00:27:05,359
what could be nonsense, like I could be pulling stories

430
00:27:05,440 --> 00:27:08,680
out of my ass. I tell them what I think

431
00:27:08,680 --> 00:27:10,880
that my cards are saying, and then they play back

432
00:27:10,920 --> 00:27:14,119
the EVP recorders and there's some sort of confirmation for

433
00:27:14,160 --> 00:27:17,039
the words that I've just said. And that's the moment

434
00:27:17,160 --> 00:27:22,160
that I'm like this though this, Yeah, I love this.

435
00:27:24,640 --> 00:27:30,680
Speaker 1: Yeah. I like the idea that you're sprawling on the

436
00:27:30,720 --> 00:27:36,319
floor too. I still read sprawled, so you know, that's

437
00:27:36,400 --> 00:27:38,440
that's how I've been doing my research for my book.

438
00:27:38,440 --> 00:27:41,519
I'm sprawled sprawld me.

439
00:27:41,680 --> 00:27:46,319
Speaker 2: So I feel like if you are a neurodivergent person

440
00:27:46,519 --> 00:27:49,039
or just like any kind of cool person, you're gonna

441
00:27:49,039 --> 00:27:51,599
sprawl yourself on the floor because things make more sense

442
00:27:51,640 --> 00:27:54,000
on the floor. Yes.

443
00:27:54,519 --> 00:27:56,480
Speaker 1: Plus it's easier for the cats and dogs.

444
00:27:56,480 --> 00:27:59,240
Speaker 2: Hell, easier for the cats. For the dogs. You can

445
00:27:59,319 --> 00:28:02,799
make a little poiles all around yourself like a fortress

446
00:28:02,799 --> 00:28:03,440
of information.

447
00:28:04,519 --> 00:28:09,400
Speaker 1: Yep, yep, yes, yeah, this book, that book, the other book,

448
00:28:09,400 --> 00:28:13,119
the notes, things, the notepads. Hey give me my pen

449
00:28:13,240 --> 00:28:16,720
back is that's usually a cat or a dog exactly

450
00:28:16,680 --> 00:28:20,960
a dog who likes to eat highlighters. You know, it's

451
00:28:21,039 --> 00:28:26,480
wild yeah, yeah, so you so you went on these

452
00:28:26,920 --> 00:28:36,039
these uh ghost investigations, and you were finding out information

453
00:28:37,119 --> 00:28:40,319
from those areas, from the from the houses.

454
00:28:41,759 --> 00:28:45,480
Speaker 2: Yep. So I was getting information from the houses. And

455
00:28:45,599 --> 00:28:48,240
I feel like every investigation that I went on, or

456
00:28:48,279 --> 00:28:51,160
every opportunity that I had to pull kind of just

457
00:28:51,240 --> 00:28:57,440
helped me refine this skill set. And what ended up

458
00:28:57,480 --> 00:29:02,160
happening is that when things would happen in my own house,

459
00:29:04,079 --> 00:29:07,039
which did start to escalate, the more aware I was,

460
00:29:07,359 --> 00:29:11,599
the more activity was going on around me. And that

461
00:29:11,759 --> 00:29:15,119
does bring into question again It's another bit of a

462
00:29:15,160 --> 00:29:18,079
gray area from is it the person, is it the house?

463
00:29:18,319 --> 00:29:21,240
Is it the situation? Is it some combination of all

464
00:29:21,319 --> 00:29:28,759
of the three. But along the lines, I ended up

465
00:29:28,799 --> 00:29:35,319
doing research with some friends about my house, the property itself,

466
00:29:36,039 --> 00:29:39,839
and it turns out that it was right along the

467
00:29:39,880 --> 00:29:46,519
trail of a battle trail where soldiers or civilians. It

468
00:29:46,559 --> 00:29:49,759
really was like it. I had other people describe the

469
00:29:49,920 --> 00:29:52,720
energy of my house being like a railroad station, where

470
00:29:52,759 --> 00:29:55,119
it was like it wasn't the same set of spirits,

471
00:29:55,119 --> 00:29:58,200
it was people coming and going, which matched up with

472
00:29:58,200 --> 00:30:00,680
what I was feeling because it was not the same

473
00:30:00,920 --> 00:30:03,519
energy every night. It was like some days I would

474
00:30:03,559 --> 00:30:07,359
wake up with a woman, some days this, some days

475
00:30:07,400 --> 00:30:11,839
that it just was like an unsettling knowing that you

476
00:30:11,880 --> 00:30:15,480
weren't alone. So I learned to ask what was happening,

477
00:30:15,680 --> 00:30:20,319
because understanding what's happening, even if I can't see it,

478
00:30:20,359 --> 00:30:23,359
removes an element of fear from the table for me.

479
00:30:23,759 --> 00:30:29,839
So like having this experience, like most of my experiences

480
00:30:29,880 --> 00:30:34,960
involve me sleeping, So like I do have ADHD. So

481
00:30:35,039 --> 00:30:36,960
like during the day, I have ADHG and I have

482
00:30:37,039 --> 00:30:40,240
three kids that a homeschool, So like you know, getting

483
00:30:40,640 --> 00:30:42,920
getting you know, getting my attention during the day is

484
00:30:42,960 --> 00:30:46,519
not like the easiest thing not to mention, like the

485
00:30:46,599 --> 00:30:49,400
million and one projects that I'm constantly doing. So like

486
00:30:49,440 --> 00:30:53,279
when I'm awake, I'm on the go, I'm distracted. I'm

487
00:30:53,319 --> 00:30:57,000
not easy to like, hey, I'd like a word with you,

488
00:30:57,400 --> 00:31:00,920
right But at night, all my guards druck and that

489
00:31:01,000 --> 00:31:03,880
would be the opportunity that the ghosts would have to

490
00:31:04,680 --> 00:31:08,000
step up and be like, hey, I was just wondering

491
00:31:08,119 --> 00:31:11,640
if maybe you wanted to hear this terribly sad story

492
00:31:11,680 --> 00:31:18,200
about me. And what I started doing is I would

493
00:31:18,279 --> 00:31:20,759
wake up in the moment. It was always scary because

494
00:31:20,799 --> 00:31:22,839
you don't ever want to wake up feeling like somebody's

495
00:31:22,839 --> 00:31:25,319
standing by your bed, right, And that's the way it

496
00:31:25,359 --> 00:31:28,920
feels to me, is like an actual living person is

497
00:31:29,000 --> 00:31:31,759
by my bed. It's the moment where Michael Meyer. You

498
00:31:31,799 --> 00:31:34,480
open your eyes and Michael Myers is standing over you, right.

499
00:31:36,039 --> 00:31:40,039
And I learned to calm myself down, like I would

500
00:31:40,079 --> 00:31:42,839
have a mental checklist and be like, the doors are locked,

501
00:31:42,880 --> 00:31:45,759
the alarms turned on, my dog's not barking, my kids

502
00:31:45,759 --> 00:31:49,240
aren't awake, like there's nobody here, right, And then the

503
00:31:49,279 --> 00:31:51,559
next morning I would ask my cards about it and

504
00:31:51,599 --> 00:31:55,440
be like, well, who was this person? And I would

505
00:31:55,519 --> 00:31:58,400
get information about who they were, and then I would say, okay,

506
00:31:58,400 --> 00:32:01,680
well what did they want? What was so important? Like

507
00:32:01,720 --> 00:32:04,000
what did they want to tell me? And I learned

508
00:32:04,039 --> 00:32:08,279
to start getting bits and pieces of these spirits lives.

509
00:32:08,799 --> 00:32:10,920
And at the time, what I was doing is I

510
00:32:10,920 --> 00:32:13,200
would go onto my Instagram and I would do little

511
00:32:13,240 --> 00:32:18,279
installments of this was my experience, this is the spirit.

512
00:32:18,519 --> 00:32:20,839
Here's a follow up reading, because I'm still thinking about

513
00:32:20,880 --> 00:32:24,960
the spirit. I haven't done anything like that in a while,

514
00:32:25,039 --> 00:32:27,680
but I just I haven't really had the opportunity for

515
00:32:28,240 --> 00:32:33,400
a hot minute here but it was a moment of

516
00:32:33,519 --> 00:32:38,720
like I had the awareness that ghosts are real. Whatever

517
00:32:38,759 --> 00:32:40,720
you want to call a ghost, whatever you think that

518
00:32:40,799 --> 00:32:45,519
a ghost is, the energetic imprint of another human is real.

519
00:32:46,279 --> 00:32:50,119
And then I had the process of learning what works

520
00:32:50,160 --> 00:32:54,759
for me to communicate because I have I have done

521
00:32:54,799 --> 00:32:59,839
some of the traditional mediumship classes, and they just my

522
00:33:00,039 --> 00:33:03,720
brain doesn't process information the same way that most of

523
00:33:03,759 --> 00:33:07,279
it's being taught. And it could be the way that

524
00:33:07,359 --> 00:33:09,240
my brain chemistry works. It could be a lot of

525
00:33:09,240 --> 00:33:13,759
different factors, and it could also just be that the

526
00:33:13,799 --> 00:33:17,680
way that I learned was through feeling and imagery, and

527
00:33:17,720 --> 00:33:19,759
that is the way that my medium ship works. So

528
00:33:19,799 --> 00:33:22,480
I need both of them to give you, like a

529
00:33:22,519 --> 00:33:25,920
clear description of what I think is happening. I'm not

530
00:33:26,039 --> 00:33:40,119
always entirely accurate, like, but I am accurate to a point.

531
00:33:37,039 --> 00:33:39,559
Speaker 1: That's you know, that's the best you can ask really,

532
00:33:39,680 --> 00:33:44,240
that is perfectly accurate. Yeah, yeah, well you know that's

533
00:33:45,279 --> 00:33:47,240
it's it's just how that works.

534
00:33:47,559 --> 00:33:51,680
Speaker 2: It is, Yeah, it's how it works. So yeah, I

535
00:33:52,119 --> 00:33:55,519
had a lot a lot of experiences in Florida. I

536
00:33:55,519 --> 00:33:58,480
actually kind of miss it, especially now that we're we're

537
00:33:58,480 --> 00:34:01,839
in October right now, when we're recording, and like, you know,

538
00:34:02,720 --> 00:34:05,799
there definitely is part of me that are like I

539
00:34:05,920 --> 00:34:10,719
miss getting haunted, you know. But so now I am.

540
00:34:12,239 --> 00:34:17,960
I am living with my parents now, I am in

541
00:34:18,159 --> 00:34:22,079
the process. I'm separated now, so I you know, that

542
00:34:22,119 --> 00:34:25,880
process is happening. So I'm in a very different space now,

543
00:34:26,719 --> 00:34:30,239
and there just isn't a lot of opportunity for that

544
00:34:30,280 --> 00:34:33,079
type of thing. There's not like I know, there's haunted

545
00:34:33,119 --> 00:34:36,559
stuff around where I live, but I'm just like it's

546
00:34:36,599 --> 00:34:37,119
different now.

547
00:34:38,320 --> 00:34:45,360
Speaker 1: Yeah, yeah, yeah, So you've written a book I have

548
00:34:45,440 --> 00:34:46,280
to write about.

549
00:34:47,000 --> 00:34:52,159
Speaker 2: So right now I have two different books out. I

550
00:34:52,199 --> 00:34:56,880
have a novel out. It is called a Collection of Eyes,

551
00:34:57,000 --> 00:35:02,320
and my book is about a woman who is stalked

552
00:35:02,360 --> 00:35:03,679
by a serial killer.

553
00:35:04,960 --> 00:35:06,559
Speaker 1: Hefting. That's a fun thing.

554
00:35:06,719 --> 00:35:11,840
Speaker 2: It's so fun. It's so fun. So this book started

555
00:35:12,039 --> 00:35:15,679
as a birthday present for my best friend. Her name

556
00:35:15,719 --> 00:35:18,239
is Joy. If you are on Instagram, you can find

557
00:35:18,239 --> 00:35:23,760
her at the Wild Underscore. Her story in like historian

558
00:35:23,840 --> 00:35:27,320
but her and she lives in England.

559
00:35:27,480 --> 00:35:28,400
Speaker 1: So I.

560
00:35:29,960 --> 00:35:36,199
Speaker 2: Wanted to do something for her birthday. But I don't

561
00:35:36,199 --> 00:35:37,840
remember what was happening. But I couldn't send her a

562
00:35:37,840 --> 00:35:39,960
box at the time. So I was like, I'm going

563
00:35:40,000 --> 00:35:42,840
to write her something, and I wrote her this short story.

564
00:35:43,039 --> 00:35:48,039
And if you have ever met Joy, she is fierce

565
00:35:48,480 --> 00:35:54,239
and just so brave, and she has done so much

566
00:35:54,320 --> 00:36:00,800
to help me before and after I got my PTSD diagnosis.

567
00:36:00,840 --> 00:36:04,360
She was helping me sort through the mess that was

568
00:36:04,400 --> 00:36:07,880
my life right like she was. She she was one

569
00:36:07,880 --> 00:36:10,400
of the people that not the only person, but she

570
00:36:10,559 --> 00:36:16,760
was one of the people there that saw everything that

571
00:36:16,800 --> 00:36:20,039
I was up against and was like, I'm here and

572
00:36:20,079 --> 00:36:23,760
I'm going to help you through this. And so I

573
00:36:23,840 --> 00:36:28,559
based the character of my story on the on Joy

574
00:36:29,039 --> 00:36:32,519
as this like tough final girl. She's been through it,

575
00:36:32,599 --> 00:36:36,039
She's come out the other side stronger. Right. So it

576
00:36:36,119 --> 00:36:39,719
started as this short story and she was facing down

577
00:36:40,599 --> 00:36:44,800
the man who kidnaps her basically you know that in

578
00:36:44,840 --> 00:36:47,400
the first few paragraphs, so that's not a spoiler. She

579
00:36:47,519 --> 00:36:56,639
survives their initial encounter. And what I did is I

580
00:36:56,639 --> 00:36:58,960
fell in love with the character. I fell in love

581
00:36:59,000 --> 00:37:02,119
with the storyline, and Joy was like, I love this

582
00:37:02,199 --> 00:37:04,079
so much, it should be a full book. And I

583
00:37:04,159 --> 00:37:08,599
was like, okay, how do I Like, I'm already done.

584
00:37:08,719 --> 00:37:12,039
What do I do from here? So what I did

585
00:37:12,199 --> 00:37:17,960
is I took that as an opportunity to explore explaining

586
00:37:18,039 --> 00:37:22,840
the way that PTSD feels to me, So my descriptions

587
00:37:22,840 --> 00:37:27,039
in the book will not be the way experiencing PTSD

588
00:37:27,199 --> 00:37:31,360
feels to everyone. But at the time, I was having

589
00:37:31,440 --> 00:37:35,159
a really hard time with nightmares. To a lot of

590
00:37:35,159 --> 00:37:39,760
people with PTSD experience, and if you've never had a

591
00:37:39,880 --> 00:37:42,559
I usually refer to them as trauma dreams. So if

592
00:37:42,559 --> 00:37:46,199
you've never had a trauma dream, it's not like a

593
00:37:46,280 --> 00:37:52,199
regular nightmare. It feels more real than that. It feels

594
00:37:52,280 --> 00:37:56,440
like the biggest reference that people make are when you're

595
00:37:56,480 --> 00:37:58,599
a soldier and it feels like you're back in battle,

596
00:37:58,639 --> 00:38:00,559
but there's not a lot of reference says for the

597
00:38:00,559 --> 00:38:06,639
people who were not in battle. Right, So my story nothing,

598
00:38:07,320 --> 00:38:09,159
nothing like what was in my book happened to me.

599
00:38:09,519 --> 00:38:12,239
But it's it's not that at all. It just was

600
00:38:12,280 --> 00:38:15,760
that I was looking for a way to express the

601
00:38:15,840 --> 00:38:20,519
feelings that were drowning me at the time, and I

602
00:38:20,599 --> 00:38:22,599
wanted to do it in a way that I didn't

603
00:38:22,679 --> 00:38:26,079
have to talk about what happened to me because I

604
00:38:26,840 --> 00:38:28,639
just still don't. I don't want to talk about.

605
00:38:28,440 --> 00:38:33,320
Speaker 1: It like you talked about it with your therapist.

606
00:38:33,159 --> 00:38:37,400
Speaker 2: Exactly if you if you were exactly if you're talking

607
00:38:37,400 --> 00:38:39,400
about it in therapy, if you're talking about it and

608
00:38:39,440 --> 00:38:42,719
you're safe with your safe people, and you were still struggling.

609
00:38:43,079 --> 00:38:47,679
I turned to writing, and so I had this initial idea,

610
00:38:47,920 --> 00:38:50,800
and then I was like, what would it be like

611
00:38:51,840 --> 00:38:56,079
to watch a like we already know she survived, she

612
00:38:56,239 --> 00:38:58,960
is a final girl from the beginning pages, But what's

613
00:38:59,000 --> 00:39:01,639
it like after that? And that's what I went in

614
00:39:01,760 --> 00:39:04,719
with the rest of the book to explore, was the

615
00:39:04,760 --> 00:39:07,679
after effect. And of course there's twists and turns, and

616
00:39:07,719 --> 00:39:10,960
there's ghosts, and there's spice, because that's just who I

617
00:39:11,000 --> 00:39:16,400
am as a person. But the intent there was to

618
00:39:16,800 --> 00:39:24,199
showcase the resiliency of human being a human and experiencing

619
00:39:24,280 --> 00:39:29,199
something that shatters your idea and your expectation of the world,

620
00:39:29,440 --> 00:39:32,719
and then learning how to put yourself back together, because

621
00:39:32,719 --> 00:39:35,119
that's the part that there's not a lot of people

622
00:39:35,199 --> 00:39:39,159
who are like, guess what, your world just got rocked,

623
00:39:39,599 --> 00:39:43,079
Like you know, it's like it's either the before or

624
00:39:43,119 --> 00:39:45,920
the well after that we get. It's not the people

625
00:39:46,000 --> 00:39:48,360
who are sitting in the middle of the mess and

626
00:39:48,400 --> 00:39:52,000
being like I just I don't know how to feel better.

627
00:39:52,239 --> 00:39:55,159
I don't want to feel like this. I miss who

628
00:39:55,239 --> 00:39:58,519
I was before, but I don't know how to feel better,

629
00:39:59,000 --> 00:40:04,119
And I like I am better now. I'm like, am

630
00:40:04,199 --> 00:40:06,920
I am I healed? No, but like I'm in a

631
00:40:06,920 --> 00:40:08,559
better place than I was now when I wrote it.

632
00:40:08,639 --> 00:40:12,880
But the act of writing it really was therapeutic for

633
00:40:12,960 --> 00:40:17,679
me because I got to give all of my symptoms

634
00:40:18,239 --> 00:40:23,320
to a fictional character. But the act of doing that

635
00:40:23,519 --> 00:40:26,079
really allowed me to look at it and see, like,

636
00:40:26,559 --> 00:40:28,960
because you know, there are days when you wake up

637
00:40:29,039 --> 00:40:32,480
and you're like, I should I shouldn't still be struggling

638
00:40:32,519 --> 00:40:35,159
with this, or like, you know, it's the thoughts that

639
00:40:35,199 --> 00:40:38,679
once you have a mental illness, they don't they get better,

640
00:40:38,679 --> 00:40:42,079
but they don't necessarily go away. That's like you should

641
00:40:42,159 --> 00:40:46,360
be over this by now, you're being over dramatic. You're

642
00:40:46,440 --> 00:40:50,000
imagining how bad this was. It's those thoughts like that

643
00:40:50,000 --> 00:40:53,800
that when they weren't mine anymore, and when they belonged

644
00:40:53,840 --> 00:40:56,519
to a fictional character, I was able to look at

645
00:40:56,559 --> 00:40:59,519
it and be like, God, damn, look at me. Go,

646
00:41:00,239 --> 00:41:05,119
you know, I pea what. I didn't face a serial killer,

647
00:41:05,280 --> 00:41:09,840
But I'm doing a pretty fucking good Yeah, yeah, so

648
00:41:12,599 --> 00:41:16,280
that is my That is my first novel. I don't

649
00:41:16,280 --> 00:41:24,920
write a lot of happy things, but why, but why

650
00:41:25,320 --> 00:41:29,360
there's always an element of happiness to it. But I

651
00:41:29,400 --> 00:41:35,960
whether it's ghosts or whether it's my writing, I appreciate

652
00:41:36,000 --> 00:41:39,079
the happy moments. And I think it's hard for some

653
00:41:39,119 --> 00:41:42,880
people who aren't curious about humanity or like human nature

654
00:41:43,280 --> 00:41:46,559
in the way that I am, because it's like, I

655
00:41:46,559 --> 00:41:50,480
think that all emotions are meant to be felt. I

656
00:41:50,519 --> 00:41:54,119
think that the good emotions and the bad emotions, and

657
00:41:54,159 --> 00:41:57,599
I think that sometimes the delicate weaving of the two

658
00:41:57,920 --> 00:42:01,320
are what it means to be human. It can't all

659
00:42:01,440 --> 00:42:04,480
be good and it can't all be bad, because then

660
00:42:04,559 --> 00:42:08,639
what's left If everything is good, then what makes anything special?

661
00:42:09,039 --> 00:42:12,800
You know? It's like, do I want to have PTSD

662
00:42:13,039 --> 00:42:16,079
and feel the lowest of the lows as often as

663
00:42:16,079 --> 00:42:20,800
I do? No, not at all, you know. But also

664
00:42:21,320 --> 00:42:26,360
I can recognize that when I'm having a bad day,

665
00:42:26,679 --> 00:42:29,360
it makes me appreciate the good days that much more

666
00:42:29,760 --> 00:42:33,000
because I do know, I do know what it's like

667
00:42:33,519 --> 00:42:38,440
to feel those depths, and I try to write from

668
00:42:38,440 --> 00:42:41,719
that perspective too, and that I don't use a ton

669
00:42:41,800 --> 00:42:44,639
of descriptive language. I'm trying to get a little bit

670
00:42:44,639 --> 00:42:47,840
better at that, but I write in a way that

671
00:42:48,079 --> 00:42:52,159
lets you imagine how it feels to be in that situation.

672
00:42:52,280 --> 00:42:55,719
So if you read my book, it's scary because you

673
00:42:55,840 --> 00:42:59,119
feel like you are having the emotions that she is feeling.

674
00:42:59,239 --> 00:43:02,239
It's not the my wording is super scary. It's just

675
00:43:02,400 --> 00:43:06,159
it's you're you're putting yourself in somebody else's shoes for

676
00:43:06,199 --> 00:43:08,239
a while, which is why I love books.

677
00:43:09,559 --> 00:43:14,000
Speaker 1: Yeah. Yeah, It's a safe way to learn things. It's

678
00:43:14,000 --> 00:43:16,960
a safe way to experience things that are outside of

679
00:43:17,000 --> 00:43:22,599
your experience, and now you have actual empathy. When you read,

680
00:43:23,320 --> 00:43:28,199
you can't help but get into the shoes of whichever

681
00:43:28,400 --> 00:43:33,039
character is being written about, you know, and you experience

682
00:43:33,159 --> 00:43:38,079
with them their life and the way that they cope

683
00:43:38,559 --> 00:43:44,400
with awful shit. Yeah, you know, just just terrible. I mean,

684
00:43:45,880 --> 00:43:48,880
you know, one of the things about being an author

685
00:43:49,000 --> 00:43:52,119
is you come up with these characters and you love them,

686
00:43:52,559 --> 00:43:56,639
but then you put them through awful, terrible things. Yeah,

687
00:43:56,920 --> 00:44:02,360
because because if you don't, who's going to read it?

688
00:44:02,760 --> 00:44:02,920
Speaker 2: Right?

689
00:44:03,199 --> 00:44:09,639
Speaker 1: The point is to is to see what people endure

690
00:44:09,800 --> 00:44:13,280
and then come back from right or yes or they

691
00:44:13,559 --> 00:44:18,559
they surpass. Yes, what they beat are faced with, yet

692
00:44:19,039 --> 00:44:19,760
they beat the.

693
00:44:19,679 --> 00:44:22,599
Speaker 2: Odds and it makes you feel like you can beat

694
00:44:22,599 --> 00:44:26,360
the odds too. And that's like that. That's what literature,

695
00:44:26,480 --> 00:44:29,800
that's what stories do for us, is that it gives us,

696
00:44:31,079 --> 00:44:34,119
even if it's like a fucked up kind of role model,

697
00:44:34,280 --> 00:44:38,039
it's still someone to be like, you know what, if

698
00:44:38,079 --> 00:44:41,039
they can survive this, I can fucking get through this,

699
00:44:41,280 --> 00:44:44,039
you know it even't like it doesn't matter that it's

700
00:44:44,119 --> 00:44:47,920
not real. And that that is something that my friend

701
00:44:48,000 --> 00:44:51,159
Joy that my my book is based off of. She

702
00:44:51,239 --> 00:44:54,079
would tell me a lot when I was still in Florida,

703
00:44:54,119 --> 00:44:57,280
was like, pick a fictional character. It doesn't have to

704
00:44:57,320 --> 00:45:00,639
be a perfect character. It just needs to be someone

705
00:45:00,719 --> 00:45:03,199
that you look up to, someone that you can find

706
00:45:03,280 --> 00:45:08,199
some hope in. Right, And this was before I started writing.

707
00:45:08,320 --> 00:45:11,360
But for me it was Sherlock Holmes, Robert Jowney Junior,

708
00:45:11,400 --> 00:45:16,840
Sherlock Holmes and P. T. Barnum from the Greatest Showman

709
00:45:17,039 --> 00:45:19,039
in the movie, not in real life, because he was

710
00:45:19,079 --> 00:45:20,159
a piece of shit in real life.

711
00:45:20,239 --> 00:45:22,840
Speaker 1: Let me just say, oh, he's terrible. It was terrible.

712
00:45:23,159 --> 00:45:25,199
Speaker 2: He was kind of terrible in the movie too, But

713
00:45:25,239 --> 00:45:27,800
like in the Moon that not as terrible, But the

714
00:45:27,840 --> 00:45:30,760
aspect of the movie that got me was that he

715
00:45:31,679 --> 00:45:35,639
thinks of the impossible things and he doesn't let logic

716
00:45:35,719 --> 00:45:38,360
tell him why it won't work. And so by the

717
00:45:38,440 --> 00:45:43,400
time I was already practicing this exercise, I already had PTSD.

718
00:45:43,480 --> 00:45:46,639
I didn't have the diagnosis yet, but I was unwell.

719
00:45:46,760 --> 00:45:51,679
I was not a healthy person, right, And so I

720
00:45:52,000 --> 00:45:54,840
was being told to look to fictional characters. And that

721
00:45:55,000 --> 00:45:58,719
is something that I've done my whole life. I've always read,

722
00:45:59,360 --> 00:46:03,960
read story, and I've immersed myself in these fictional worlds.

723
00:46:04,039 --> 00:46:07,840
And now I've just learned to adapt what's in my

724
00:46:08,000 --> 00:46:12,960
mind onto pages. So like odds are you won't read

725
00:46:13,639 --> 00:46:16,719
the happiest stories from me, Like they're they're they're gonna

726
00:46:16,840 --> 00:46:20,280
end well and I build in happiness, but they're that's

727
00:46:20,440 --> 00:46:22,599
it's not the point of my writing, because it's not

728
00:46:22,679 --> 00:46:28,000
the point of my existence. Like I don't like I love,

729
00:46:29,559 --> 00:46:32,719
I love rom comms, I love Happily ever afters. It's

730
00:46:32,920 --> 00:46:36,840
just I am more interested in the people who have

731
00:46:38,800 --> 00:46:41,159
been through the trenches, so to speak, and have come

732
00:46:41,199 --> 00:46:42,639
out and be like, you know what, you're a little

733
00:46:42,639 --> 00:46:44,320
bit weird and you're a little bit fucked, but you're

734
00:46:44,400 --> 00:46:46,679
my kind of people, So come on, let's go. You know.

735
00:46:46,920 --> 00:46:54,519
It's the Yeah, it's it's that. And recently it's been

736
00:46:54,559 --> 00:46:59,639
allowing me to explore hauntings and the pair normal in

737
00:46:59,679 --> 00:47:03,400
a new as well, because I had a lot of

738
00:47:03,440 --> 00:47:08,639
freedom to explore that when I was in Florida. I

739
00:47:08,760 --> 00:47:12,519
had people around me that I could go out and

740
00:47:12,639 --> 00:47:16,639
explore with. But I also, like, I have a hard

741
00:47:16,719 --> 00:47:21,400
time going new places by myself, and it's not a

742
00:47:21,440 --> 00:47:24,760
PTSD thing. That's the way that I've always been. I

743
00:47:24,800 --> 00:47:29,440
find new places really really intimidating and really scary, and

744
00:47:30,079 --> 00:47:35,519
I love experiencing new things and I love going new places,

745
00:47:35,559 --> 00:47:38,800
but I have a really hard time getting there myself.

746
00:47:38,960 --> 00:47:41,920
So like if I was like, I've never been to

747
00:47:42,000 --> 00:47:44,320
this place before and I want to go, it will

748
00:47:44,320 --> 00:47:48,159
take me a long time to work up to doing

749
00:47:48,199 --> 00:47:54,440
it right. But in the aftermath of having PTSD, sometimes

750
00:47:54,440 --> 00:47:57,920
that's a lot worse. And sometimes it's hard for me

751
00:47:58,039 --> 00:48:00,440
to go to the grocery store, you know, or to

752
00:48:00,519 --> 00:48:05,639
do things that are easy for other people to do.

753
00:48:05,840 --> 00:48:12,119
Because like I am from Texas, I'm a Texan. Texans

754
00:48:12,239 --> 00:48:16,920
love our grocery store called AGB. Okay, like, yeah, yeah, Texans,

755
00:48:17,000 --> 00:48:20,719
all Texans love achbhib is my favorite place. I go

756
00:48:20,800 --> 00:48:23,280
to AGB sometimes, not even to buy stuff, just because

757
00:48:23,360 --> 00:48:26,079
I like AGB. Right, It's like, I don't have a

758
00:48:26,119 --> 00:48:28,840
lot of places here and HB is my place. But

759
00:48:28,880 --> 00:48:32,280
there have been times when going to the grocery store

760
00:48:32,639 --> 00:48:35,960
was more than I could handle. I have had recently,

761
00:48:36,039 --> 00:48:38,360
I had a panic attack in Target and I was

762
00:48:38,400 --> 00:48:42,239
feeling fine when I got there, but everything was loud

763
00:48:42,480 --> 00:48:45,960
and there was just too much happening at once, and

764
00:48:46,639 --> 00:48:49,280
like I left the store. I paid for my stuff,

765
00:48:49,280 --> 00:48:51,360
but I didn't get half of it. And it's it's

766
00:48:51,360 --> 00:48:57,400
those moments where I'm like, I want to explore more.

767
00:48:57,440 --> 00:48:59,480
I want to explore the paranormal more, but how do

768
00:48:59,519 --> 00:49:01,599
you do that when you're afraid to leave your house?

769
00:49:03,360 --> 00:49:12,360
Enter fiction? Yeah, so it's you know, writing has done

770
00:49:12,400 --> 00:49:17,360
a lot for me. On an alternate side of that,

771
00:49:17,480 --> 00:49:22,000
I have been exploring more about the paranormal through writing because,

772
00:49:22,719 --> 00:49:24,920
as I mentioned before, I live with my parents, who

773
00:49:25,000 --> 00:49:28,719
are lovely, very supportive in taking me and my kids

774
00:49:28,760 --> 00:49:34,440
and my pets into their house. But it's not like

775
00:49:35,679 --> 00:49:39,920
what I do isn't necessarily like like we don't talk

776
00:49:39,920 --> 00:49:45,840
about it, you know. So it's just like, and in

777
00:49:45,880 --> 00:49:48,800
my current situation, it's easier for me to put those

778
00:49:48,800 --> 00:49:51,239
things into a world of fiction than it is to

779
00:49:51,320 --> 00:49:54,639
be like, this is what I do, because I could

780
00:49:54,639 --> 00:49:58,440
be like, look, I've written a book. Yeah, so yeah,

781
00:50:00,360 --> 00:50:03,880
has given me the keys to freedom in a way

782
00:50:03,920 --> 00:50:09,679
that I didn't expect and I wasn't anticipating, Like it

783
00:50:09,719 --> 00:50:12,400
wasn't necessarily on my BINGO card for my life to

784
00:50:12,519 --> 00:50:17,840
like end up where I am. I would have liked

785
00:50:17,880 --> 00:50:22,800
to avoid the severe mental damage. But I also can

786
00:50:22,920 --> 00:50:26,360
look at the trajectory that my life has taken and

787
00:50:26,559 --> 00:50:30,159
the lessons that I've learned talking to ghosts and investigating

788
00:50:30,280 --> 00:50:32,519
and all the different things that I've learned how to do,

789
00:50:34,000 --> 00:50:36,840
and from where I'm at now, I can also see that,

790
00:50:36,920 --> 00:50:40,920
like is it unfortunate? Yes, I can give myself that

791
00:50:41,000 --> 00:50:44,480
sympathy that, yeah, it sucks to be where I am.

792
00:50:45,840 --> 00:50:49,199
But also I didn't lose any of those things. I'm

793
00:50:49,320 --> 00:50:52,159
just translating them in a different way than I used to,

794
00:50:52,519 --> 00:50:57,480
so like it's different, Yeah, but I'm proud of it,

795
00:50:57,760 --> 00:50:59,039
you know. I like where I'm at.

796
00:51:00,960 --> 00:51:06,920
Speaker 1: Yeah, now do you do readings from a distance still,

797
00:51:07,599 --> 00:51:11,679
I mean, do you so pull cards, you know, for

798
00:51:11,800 --> 00:51:14,760
other people or other investigators.

799
00:51:15,360 --> 00:51:18,719
Speaker 2: I will if you I do for investigators, and I

800
00:51:18,760 --> 00:51:24,679
will for people I don't charge, which is like counterproductive.

801
00:51:25,519 --> 00:51:29,639
But I have had a really big problem with scam

802
00:51:29,639 --> 00:51:33,960
accounts on my page, So it just is not something that, like,

803
00:51:36,519 --> 00:51:41,800
with what was happening in my personal life, it wasn't

804
00:51:41,840 --> 00:51:45,400
sustainable for me to try to be like, no, that's

805
00:51:45,440 --> 00:51:47,679
not me, that's not me, that's not me. You should

806
00:51:47,679 --> 00:51:49,880
buy this from me, but this isn't me, you know.

807
00:51:50,000 --> 00:51:53,840
It's like I removed that from the table for my

808
00:51:53,880 --> 00:52:00,679
own mental health, where like the this scam accounts that

809
00:52:00,800 --> 00:52:03,599
I was facing, like it got real bad for a while,

810
00:52:03,679 --> 00:52:06,840
but the scam accounts that I was dealing with the

811
00:52:06,840 --> 00:52:10,679
worst of it coincided at a time when my personal

812
00:52:10,719 --> 00:52:14,320
life was also at very rocky points. So for me,

813
00:52:14,639 --> 00:52:19,239
it's not that the scam accounts themselves are this bad.

814
00:52:19,320 --> 00:52:21,880
It's just that it puts my mind into a place

815
00:52:22,440 --> 00:52:27,920
where things were that bad. So I don't do personal readings.

816
00:52:28,920 --> 00:52:31,239
I will, like if you messaged me and you're like, hey,

817
00:52:31,239 --> 00:52:33,599
can you help me with this? I will I don't

818
00:52:33,679 --> 00:52:37,719
charge for them, and that way I could keep up going.

819
00:52:38,079 --> 00:52:39,840
It's just not me. Just don't worry about it because

820
00:52:39,840 --> 00:52:42,880
it's not me. And if you are investigating and you

821
00:52:44,679 --> 00:52:47,679
would like help, I do investigate from a distance. I

822
00:52:47,760 --> 00:52:51,480
love to do that. I'm happy to do that literally anytime.

823
00:52:53,000 --> 00:52:58,599
I work with a couple of friends, Scottie the Medium

824
00:52:58,639 --> 00:53:01,800
he's on TikTok, and Melissa the ghost doctor, who's on

825
00:53:01,840 --> 00:53:05,000
Instagram and on TikTok, and we do most of our

826
00:53:05,039 --> 00:53:10,320
work from a distance too, so hopefully more in the future.

827
00:53:10,480 --> 00:53:14,000
But yeah, that's you really just have to like, if

828
00:53:14,039 --> 00:53:17,239
you message me, I'm pretty good at responding to my messages.

829
00:53:17,280 --> 00:53:19,679
I don't catch all of them, but I'm pretty good

830
00:53:19,679 --> 00:53:22,679
at responding in my messages. And that is something that

831
00:53:22,719 --> 00:53:26,119
I love to do and I really missdoing, especially where

832
00:53:26,159 --> 00:53:30,119
I'm at right now. It's just like it's that like

833
00:53:30,559 --> 00:53:33,400
I can't advertise it too much because.

834
00:53:33,360 --> 00:53:38,440
Speaker 1: Yeah, yeah, yeah, oh mom, that's just my friend the witch.

835
00:53:38,519 --> 00:53:40,719
You know, we're gonna go talk to the ghost.

836
00:53:43,119 --> 00:53:43,639
Speaker 2: Exactly.

837
00:53:43,880 --> 00:53:49,480
Speaker 1: Yeah, you know that graveyard down the road there's ghosts waiting.

838
00:53:52,039 --> 00:53:55,599
I told him i'd be there by midnight. Yeah, that's

839
00:53:55,599 --> 00:53:56,239
not gonna.

840
00:53:56,000 --> 00:54:00,000
Speaker 2: Say, yeah, so you know, but that that is how

841
00:54:00,000 --> 00:54:03,840
how to do it. If you, I will add the

842
00:54:03,840 --> 00:54:06,639
the extra warning that I normally get people in that

843
00:54:06,800 --> 00:54:10,920
my the the way that I read taro is more

844
00:54:11,280 --> 00:54:16,320
for what's going on with you mentally emotionally. I don't

845
00:54:16,559 --> 00:54:19,000
do fortune telling. So if you come to me and

846
00:54:19,119 --> 00:54:21,920
ask if you will ever find love or are you

847
00:54:21,920 --> 00:54:24,400
going to get this job? Can I ask that question

848
00:54:24,480 --> 00:54:27,079
in my card? Yes? Will the answer be what you want?

849
00:54:27,559 --> 00:54:28,199
Probably not?

850
00:54:30,920 --> 00:54:35,000
Speaker 1: So yeah, I understand, you know, Yeah.

851
00:54:34,960 --> 00:54:39,119
Speaker 2: It's I'll do my best to give you the correct answer.

852
00:54:39,920 --> 00:54:41,880
But if you come to me asking about your love life,

853
00:54:41,960 --> 00:54:44,519
I'm probably gonna tell you why you think you're not

854
00:54:44,639 --> 00:54:48,440
worthy of being loved if I'm being if I'm being

855
00:54:48,480 --> 00:54:50,760
perfectly honest, like that's what it's going to come down to.

856
00:54:50,880 --> 00:54:52,719
It's not that you haven't met the right person. It's

857
00:54:52,760 --> 00:54:54,599
that you feel like you don't deserve the right person.

858
00:54:55,840 --> 00:54:59,920
Speaker 1: So well, but that's true, and ye's actually a useful land.

859
00:55:00,320 --> 00:55:01,360
Speaker 2: It is a useful answer.

860
00:55:01,760 --> 00:55:03,920
Speaker 1: But people don't always want the useful.

861
00:55:03,599 --> 00:55:06,800
Speaker 2: People don't want the useful answer. People want the live

862
00:55:06,920 --> 00:55:11,159
TikTok readings that or the videos that say he left

863
00:55:11,199 --> 00:55:13,639
you and he's going to come back, and I don't

864
00:55:13,679 --> 00:55:14,440
do that kind of reading.

865
00:55:17,719 --> 00:55:28,360
Speaker 1: Yeah, I know. Yeah yeah. So when you when you

866
00:55:28,559 --> 00:55:33,320
think about to row cards, how much of it did

867
00:55:33,360 --> 00:55:41,599
you learn from traditional to row sources like books? Not

868
00:55:41,679 --> 00:55:44,360
necessarily the little tiny booklet that they give you, which

869
00:55:44,440 --> 00:55:47,960
is whatever it is, It is what it is.

870
00:55:48,119 --> 00:55:51,239
Speaker 2: Let's just I love those well to an extent, to

871
00:55:51,280 --> 00:55:52,159
an extent.

872
00:55:51,960 --> 00:55:55,760
Speaker 1: Yeah yeah, but but how did did you learn it

873
00:55:55,760 --> 00:55:58,079
from books or how did what is your method?

874
00:55:58,800 --> 00:56:04,239
Speaker 2: So I I did like it from books. I I

875
00:56:04,320 --> 00:56:06,159
think Actually, I'm pretty sure that this is my first

876
00:56:06,159 --> 00:56:09,039
tear deck right here. It's just like a basic yeah,

877
00:56:09,079 --> 00:56:12,199
right orway. So I had the Oracle cards first, So

878
00:56:12,480 --> 00:56:16,920
I the Angel deck by Dreene Virtue, and I started

879
00:56:16,960 --> 00:56:20,519
by shuffling and asking what do I need to know today?

880
00:56:21,159 --> 00:56:23,440
And I would just pull one card, and then once

881
00:56:23,519 --> 00:56:26,719
I was feeling like I was understanding the one card,

882
00:56:26,760 --> 00:56:32,239
I moved on. So now my daily pulls are wild.

883
00:56:32,440 --> 00:56:34,559
I never know how many cards are gonna come out.

884
00:56:34,599 --> 00:56:36,599
Like I still do the same thing. I'm like, what

885
00:56:36,639 --> 00:56:39,039
do I need to know today? And I, you know,

886
00:56:39,079 --> 00:56:41,199
I pull and however many cards comes out comes out.

887
00:56:42,719 --> 00:56:48,440
But I used Bitty taro is it's a big account.

888
00:56:48,960 --> 00:56:52,159
But I got her guide book and I actually have

889
00:56:52,280 --> 00:56:54,679
it on my little trunk over here. The pages are

890
00:56:54,719 --> 00:57:00,119
literally falling out of the book. So I use a

891
00:57:00,119 --> 00:57:04,480
a blend of intuition and the basic card meaning in

892
00:57:04,719 --> 00:57:08,480
that I enjoy referencing what the card actually means.

893
00:57:08,800 --> 00:57:09,119
Speaker 1: I like.

894
00:57:10,000 --> 00:57:13,559
Speaker 2: I like getting decks made by artists, and I like

895
00:57:13,639 --> 00:57:17,760
reading their guide books because sometimes what they mean for

896
00:57:17,840 --> 00:57:21,840
the card is different than the traditional card. Yes, two

897
00:57:21,880 --> 00:57:25,760
of my favorite examples of this are the I think

898
00:57:25,800 --> 00:57:29,679
it's called the hurt taro. It's really beautiful. I'll send

899
00:57:29,679 --> 00:57:31,880
you a picture after this, and then the Horror Taro,

900
00:57:32,000 --> 00:57:34,519
which I've been using a lot recently. And the meetings

901
00:57:34,559 --> 00:57:38,159
are different, the wording is different, and it changes the

902
00:57:38,719 --> 00:57:44,400
traditional meetings. So I will When I was first learning

903
00:57:44,440 --> 00:57:48,079
how like, I would pull cards and I would look

904
00:57:48,119 --> 00:57:50,639
up the cards meanings, and I would get my journal

905
00:57:51,039 --> 00:57:54,039
and I would write the card. I would write the

906
00:57:54,119 --> 00:57:56,960
keywords or whatever I was taking away from the meaning,

907
00:57:57,119 --> 00:57:59,800
and then I would write how it applied to me

908
00:58:00,599 --> 00:58:03,840
so or how I saw it applying to me in

909
00:58:03,840 --> 00:58:07,760
my life in that moment. So those are all packed,

910
00:58:07,800 --> 00:58:11,320
but those exist somewhere. There's just journals of me being

911
00:58:11,400 --> 00:58:14,760
like I pulled the three of Swords today, you know whatever.

912
00:58:16,199 --> 00:58:20,039
And so now I read Taro in a combination of

913
00:58:20,079 --> 00:58:24,960
the two because I don't need the guide book. I

914
00:58:25,159 --> 00:58:28,400
like the guidebook because sometimes little phrases will pop out

915
00:58:28,440 --> 00:58:31,239
at me so like I enjoy I enjoy it when

916
00:58:31,280 --> 00:58:33,280
that happens because I'm like, oh, I didn't think about

917
00:58:33,320 --> 00:58:36,599
that way to go, you know. But it's it's a

918
00:58:36,639 --> 00:58:40,000
blend of both for me, and I know people that

919
00:58:40,119 --> 00:58:42,880
will look more at the imagery or will that stick

920
00:58:43,000 --> 00:58:47,199
to the core energy of the card or this or that.

921
00:58:47,559 --> 00:58:50,519
But I think that that's what makes reading Taro so

922
00:58:50,760 --> 00:58:54,760
fun is that it is subjective. There's no right or

923
00:58:54,880 --> 00:59:01,119
wrong way, and my method isn't necessary right. It isn't

924
00:59:01,159 --> 00:59:04,159
necessarily wrong either. It's a little it's a hodgepodge of

925
00:59:04,559 --> 00:59:07,960
all sorts of different things, and it looks different from

926
00:59:08,000 --> 00:59:11,239
day to day. Sometimes I'll pull my cards out and

927
00:59:11,280 --> 00:59:13,840
be like, oh my god, okay, I get it, and

928
00:59:13,880 --> 00:59:16,639
I'll put them away, and then the next day I'll

929
00:59:16,679 --> 00:59:18,760
do the exact same thing, and I'll be like, oh,

930
00:59:18,760 --> 00:59:21,079
I should look that card up, and I'll look it

931
00:59:21,159 --> 00:59:23,639
up and I'll have a whole detailed, you know journal

932
00:59:23,719 --> 00:59:26,800
like I used to do it. Just it just kind

933
00:59:26,800 --> 00:59:32,119
of depends. But I that is one thing that when

934
00:59:32,159 --> 00:59:34,119
I was learning to read Taro, I also was in

935
00:59:34,159 --> 00:59:37,239
a lot of Facebook groups, which I'm I said, already,

936
00:59:37,239 --> 00:59:39,079
I'm not on Facebook a ton, Like I have a

937
00:59:39,119 --> 00:59:42,880
Facebook page, I'm just not super active on there. But

938
00:59:43,039 --> 00:59:45,000
in the Facebook groups, they would always be like, if

939
00:59:45,039 --> 00:59:47,239
you're not reading on intuition, then you're not a real

940
00:59:47,280 --> 00:59:50,360
reader and so and I'd be like, okay, I guess

941
00:59:50,400 --> 00:59:53,639
I'm not a real reader then you know, okay, but

942
00:59:53,760 --> 00:59:57,960
I'm over here with my guide books and being like fuck, yeah, yeah, yeah,

943
00:59:58,079 --> 01:00:00,320
look look at that ten of cubs. I didn't see

944
01:00:00,320 --> 01:00:06,000
that one coming, you know. It's like it's it's I

945
01:00:06,360 --> 01:00:09,920
just think that it's such a personal tool. And it's

946
01:00:10,000 --> 01:00:14,639
like I love how mainstream and how popular taro has gone,

947
01:00:14,679 --> 01:00:16,960
because like I can go to Barnes and Noble and

948
01:00:17,000 --> 01:00:19,320
buy a new Tarot deck if I really want to, Like,

949
01:00:19,360 --> 01:00:22,480
they're there even in my like small Texas town, there

950
01:00:22,519 --> 01:00:27,480
are there's a spirituality section. I love how accessible it is,

951
01:00:28,320 --> 01:00:32,119
but I also don't love that there are so many

952
01:00:32,159 --> 01:00:34,480
people out there that are like, this is the way

953
01:00:34,559 --> 01:00:38,800
to read Taro or like and this is the only way.

954
01:00:38,880 --> 01:00:43,800
And again you can follow my life trail back and

955
01:00:43,840 --> 01:00:45,599
be like, she just doesn't like to be told what

956
01:00:45,639 --> 01:00:48,039
to do because the way she grew up. And that's

957
01:00:47,639 --> 01:00:52,280
absolutely true. I don't like it if you tell me

958
01:00:52,320 --> 01:00:54,599
what to believe, I will immediately say no, thank you.

959
01:00:54,840 --> 01:00:59,519
I don't like that. And it applies to my spiritual

960
01:00:59,559 --> 01:01:03,960
practice and that I have. I used to share a

961
01:01:03,960 --> 01:01:06,079
lot more of my practice on my page. If you

962
01:01:06,199 --> 01:01:09,119
go back far enough, it was only taro. It was

963
01:01:09,320 --> 01:01:12,559
spelled candles, it was bind rooms, it was things like that.

964
01:01:12,800 --> 01:01:17,719
And I really pulled a lot away from that, partially

965
01:01:17,840 --> 01:01:22,719
because what was happening in my personal life mixed with

966
01:01:22,760 --> 01:01:25,920
the scam accounts just made it to where I was like,

967
01:01:26,119 --> 01:01:29,440
this is important to me. This is important enough to

968
01:01:29,480 --> 01:01:31,840
me that I'm not gonna share this all of the time.

969
01:01:32,079 --> 01:01:36,559
And it's been hard finding like my footing on, Like

970
01:01:36,920 --> 01:01:39,840
I have this public platform, The fuck am I going

971
01:01:39,920 --> 01:01:41,880
to do with it? If I'm no longer the village

972
01:01:41,880 --> 01:01:44,920
Taro witch, you know, like that name is still there,

973
01:01:45,000 --> 01:01:49,280
but I go by Carly dot Latham now on Instagram,

974
01:01:49,679 --> 01:01:56,280
and it's I missed the days when I could just

975
01:01:56,400 --> 01:02:03,000
be like my full, witchy self. But also I appreciate

976
01:02:03,199 --> 01:02:07,000
that now it is more private to me, that those

977
01:02:07,079 --> 01:02:12,079
moments aren't I'm I never I'm not one to manufacture

978
01:02:12,159 --> 01:02:14,239
the moment. So if I've posted about it or if

979
01:02:14,239 --> 01:02:16,719
I'm talking about it, it's because it happened, or it's

980
01:02:16,760 --> 01:02:19,639
because it's on my mind. It's not just like I

981
01:02:19,679 --> 01:02:23,639
have to do something today, you know. But I do

982
01:02:23,679 --> 01:02:28,920
feel like my relationship with spirituality and with the tools

983
01:02:28,920 --> 01:02:33,000
that I prefer were damaged along the way. I mean,

984
01:02:34,519 --> 01:02:37,679
there's not a lot that PTSD doesn't affect once you've

985
01:02:37,719 --> 01:02:40,960
been diagnosed with that, and not even just that, but

986
01:02:41,039 --> 01:02:45,000
I could say mental health in general. It's it's not

987
01:02:45,119 --> 01:02:48,280
like I wanted that to be like the pocket that

988
01:02:48,400 --> 01:02:50,760
wasn't touched and it could just be like this happy,

989
01:02:50,840 --> 01:02:53,920
safe space, but that I don't want to use the

990
01:02:53,960 --> 01:02:56,039
word tainted, but that's the way it feels to me,

991
01:02:56,360 --> 01:03:02,679
like that my spiritual practice was tainted I the events

992
01:03:02,679 --> 01:03:05,639
that went on in my life, and so like now

993
01:03:05,760 --> 01:03:09,400
again I'm leaning into the writing, but behind the scenes,

994
01:03:09,519 --> 01:03:15,119
I'm also working on rebuilding my personal relationship and my

995
01:03:15,199 --> 01:03:18,920
personal practice because it got derailed so much in the

996
01:03:18,960 --> 01:03:24,760
process that like it's it's a weird one. It's a

997
01:03:24,760 --> 01:03:27,760
weird one to talk to people about because that was

998
01:03:27,840 --> 01:03:30,239
the essence of my page for so long, and I've

999
01:03:30,320 --> 01:03:32,039
kind of been like drifting in the wind for a

1000
01:03:32,480 --> 01:03:35,440
for a long time. For like the past year or so,

1001
01:03:35,480 --> 01:03:39,599
I've been trying to find like where what do I do?

1002
01:03:40,320 --> 01:03:43,079
What do I do with this platform that I've built,

1003
01:03:43,960 --> 01:03:46,559
with these things that I'm so passionate about, And the

1004
01:03:46,639 --> 01:03:50,039
answer for me has been writing. It doesn't mean that

1005
01:03:50,079 --> 01:03:52,159
it's going away, it doesn't mean that I'm not going

1006
01:03:52,199 --> 01:03:55,599
to share these things about my life. It's just I've

1007
01:03:55,679 --> 01:03:59,840
learned new tools to channel that information so much in

1008
01:04:00,400 --> 01:04:04,199
that Like if you had been following me for any

1009
01:04:04,239 --> 01:04:08,079
amount of time and you read my captions, they are

1010
01:04:08,800 --> 01:04:12,280
usually fairly deep on whatever is on my mind at

1011
01:04:12,320 --> 01:04:16,719
the time. You know, I kind of I go all

1012
01:04:16,719 --> 01:04:19,320
in for it. And you'll find that in my writing too,

1013
01:04:19,719 --> 01:04:24,360
is that I don't write happy things. And it's not

1014
01:04:24,400 --> 01:04:27,039
that I'm not a happy person. It's just that there's

1015
01:04:27,079 --> 01:04:30,239
so much to explore if you give your self permission

1016
01:04:31,239 --> 01:04:34,199
to see what's hidden just beyond the veil, or if

1017
01:04:34,280 --> 01:04:36,920
you turn the lights off and you get comfortable with

1018
01:04:36,960 --> 01:04:40,320
the monsters that are in the dark. You know, there's

1019
01:04:40,360 --> 01:04:42,920
a whole world out there, and not all of it

1020
01:04:42,960 --> 01:04:46,119
is scary. It's just that we're trained to believe that

1021
01:04:46,199 --> 01:04:51,039
these things are bad. So I am retraining myself to

1022
01:04:52,039 --> 01:04:56,880
have hope and to believe in magic and to see

1023
01:04:56,920 --> 01:05:01,320
the unknown possibilities. It's just the things that I love

1024
01:05:02,800 --> 01:05:06,559
were tangled up in my mental illness.

1025
01:05:07,679 --> 01:05:15,119
Speaker 1: Yeah, yeah, that's that's yeah, I understand that a lot. Yeah,

1026
01:05:15,400 --> 01:05:17,760
I was. I was involved in a court case and

1027
01:05:18,920 --> 01:05:21,840
you know, I got pointed at by a lawyer who

1028
01:05:21,880 --> 01:05:24,800
said she's a witch. She's a witch. Even her own

1029
01:05:24,840 --> 01:05:28,719
mother doesn't talk to her. You know, that'll that'll harden you.

1030
01:05:29,119 --> 01:05:31,360
Speaker 2: Yeah, yeah, yeah.

1031
01:05:31,400 --> 01:05:34,880
Speaker 1: But then you know, after that was over, I still,

1032
01:05:35,119 --> 01:05:40,000
you know, had PTSD and bad dreams about it. But

1033
01:05:40,360 --> 01:05:43,039
you know, I was like, well, I was outed, Yeah,

1034
01:05:43,039 --> 01:05:46,079
so I might as well do something with it, might

1035
01:05:46,119 --> 01:05:50,639
as well. Yeah, So I do understand though it does

1036
01:05:50,800 --> 01:05:58,440
feel like what you were doing to help people is

1037
01:05:58,480 --> 01:06:03,840
then held against you. Yeah, and that's just that's just

1038
01:06:04,119 --> 01:06:08,159
not a good feeling at all, and it it it

1039
01:06:08,199 --> 01:06:09,559
does make it feel tainted.

1040
01:06:10,079 --> 01:06:12,920
Speaker 2: It does. Yeah, I was having that conversation with a

1041
01:06:12,920 --> 01:06:17,239
friend of mine because it's not like it's not like

1042
01:06:17,280 --> 01:06:20,159
I'm not proud of what I've accomplished, and it's not

1043
01:06:20,239 --> 01:06:24,119
like I don't recognize that like I love what I do.

1044
01:06:24,199 --> 01:06:27,960
I show up every day almost every day because I

1045
01:06:28,000 --> 01:06:30,719
love what I do. It's just like there is an

1046
01:06:30,800 --> 01:06:38,559
element of I like I there's no going backwards. I think.

1047
01:06:38,840 --> 01:06:41,000
I think that's what it is, is that like I

1048
01:06:41,239 --> 01:06:45,880
desperately I want to go back in time. I want

1049
01:06:46,039 --> 01:06:48,480
to be in the space that I was in before

1050
01:06:48,719 --> 01:06:51,400
all of these things happened, where it just was like

1051
01:06:54,079 --> 01:06:56,239
this is you know, this is what I'm sharing, this

1052
01:06:56,280 --> 01:06:58,280
is what I'm good at. I'm going ghost hunting, I'm

1053
01:06:58,320 --> 01:07:00,480
doing all those things like that is where I want

1054
01:07:00,599 --> 01:07:03,920
to be. But that's not where I am. And the

1055
01:07:03,960 --> 01:07:06,880
things that have happened in between have just made it

1056
01:07:07,119 --> 01:07:12,519
like it does. It feels tainted. It feels like it

1057
01:07:12,519 --> 01:07:16,400
feels like I am reaching for a person's dreams who

1058
01:07:16,440 --> 01:07:19,400
doesn't exist anymore. And you know what I mean, like

1059
01:07:20,159 --> 01:07:23,079
it is a past version of me. So we were

1060
01:07:23,119 --> 01:07:27,079
talking about me haunting my own house. I forgot we

1061
01:07:27,119 --> 01:07:28,519
were going to talk about this. But this is the

1062
01:07:28,519 --> 01:07:29,400
perfect transition.

1063
01:07:29,480 --> 01:07:32,039
Speaker 1: It's it's yeah, this is going in a circle.

1064
01:07:32,119 --> 01:07:33,760
Speaker 2: It is going in a circle. This is the perfect

1065
01:07:33,760 --> 01:07:38,679
transition because my when I lived in Florida, it was

1066
01:07:38,760 --> 01:07:41,760
the first time that I had the space and the

1067
01:07:41,800 --> 01:07:46,199
freedom to really explore who I am without outside eyes

1068
01:07:46,280 --> 01:07:50,360
looking in on me, without my family being like, you know,

1069
01:07:50,440 --> 01:07:53,519
you're pretty fucking weird or like, you know, they would

1070
01:07:53,559 --> 01:07:55,400
never say that to my face, but they say it

1071
01:07:55,400 --> 01:07:59,159
with their eyes, so message received, you know, like, yeah,

1072
01:07:59,599 --> 01:08:02,840
it's thing like that. Where Like, it was really hard

1073
01:08:02,880 --> 01:08:05,280
for me to move there because I've I lived in

1074
01:08:05,320 --> 01:08:08,159
Texas my whole life. I've never lived more than a

1075
01:08:08,239 --> 01:08:11,480
car rides away from my family. But once I was

1076
01:08:11,519 --> 01:08:17,439
removed from that situation, I had this enormous experience and

1077
01:08:17,840 --> 01:08:21,920
I was able to grow so much. Right So, a

1078
01:08:22,000 --> 01:08:27,399
core part of my identity was built in my haunted

1079
01:08:27,439 --> 01:08:33,399
house in Florida. Right. So I made the decision to

1080
01:08:33,479 --> 01:08:37,560
move back in with my parents, And it was not

1081
01:08:38,239 --> 01:08:41,680
an easy decision. It was a decision that I made

1082
01:08:41,840 --> 01:08:46,119
knowing that I would be breaking my own heart in

1083
01:08:46,199 --> 01:08:51,560
some ways, and I did. I cried, and I mourned

1084
01:08:51,720 --> 01:08:56,239
my life in Florida for months. I'm actually like write

1085
01:08:56,239 --> 01:08:59,319
about my one year anniversary of moving here, and I

1086
01:08:59,399 --> 01:09:02,560
still feel like I am going through the grief process

1087
01:09:02,600 --> 01:09:06,159
like I had. I had a really good life in Florida.

1088
01:09:06,399 --> 01:09:10,000
I had really good friends, but it wasn't healthy and

1089
01:09:10,039 --> 01:09:14,840
I needed help to regain my health, and there was

1090
01:09:15,359 --> 01:09:18,680
a bunch of other big factors at play. But I

1091
01:09:18,760 --> 01:09:20,680
made the choice to move back in with my parents,

1092
01:09:21,399 --> 01:09:26,840
and recently my house in Florida is on the market now.

1093
01:09:28,359 --> 01:09:32,720
I signed the paperwork to put it up, and I

1094
01:09:32,800 --> 01:09:39,399
was going through those emotions because while I had a

1095
01:09:39,399 --> 01:09:44,520
lot of time to discover myself and who I am,

1096
01:09:45,159 --> 01:09:47,840
I also had some of the worst experiences of my

1097
01:09:47,920 --> 01:09:51,199
life in that house. So it was it was both

1098
01:09:51,640 --> 01:09:55,840
all at once. And so when my house went on

1099
01:09:55,880 --> 01:09:59,560
the market, it's something that I had been waiting for

1100
01:09:59,560 --> 01:10:02,279
for very long time. I've known that this was coming.

1101
01:10:02,760 --> 01:10:05,119
It's you know, there were there was some logistics that

1102
01:10:05,199 --> 01:10:07,159
needed to be worked out before it could get put

1103
01:10:07,199 --> 01:10:10,680
on the market, and so once it once it went on,

1104
01:10:11,720 --> 01:10:16,479
it was like I had a few days where I

1105
01:10:16,479 --> 01:10:20,239
felt like I felt the depths of being like this

1106
01:10:20,319 --> 01:10:23,920
is my home though, like this, this is my home.

1107
01:10:24,720 --> 01:10:28,279
I live with my parents. I can't even like I

1108
01:10:28,319 --> 01:10:31,479
can't read cards outside of my room. Like I felt,

1109
01:10:32,399 --> 01:10:35,439
I felt trapped and I felt limited in a way

1110
01:10:35,439 --> 01:10:40,479
that I don't like feeling. Because anybody who reads taro

1111
01:10:40,600 --> 01:10:41,960
I will say that it's more of like an aid

1112
01:10:42,000 --> 01:10:44,800
of sours energy, where you're feeling like you're trapped and

1113
01:10:44,840 --> 01:10:46,600
like there's no way out. There is a way out,

1114
01:10:46,640 --> 01:10:50,279
it's just it doesn't feel that way. And so I

1115
01:10:50,640 --> 01:10:54,680
was stuck in that moment where I was like, I

1116
01:10:54,680 --> 01:10:57,920
I really don't want to live here. I'm grateful that

1117
01:10:58,239 --> 01:11:00,600
I have this safe space to come too and that

1118
01:11:00,720 --> 01:11:03,039
I was able to recuperate here, but I don't want

1119
01:11:03,079 --> 01:11:06,720
to live here. I missed my life, I missed my friends.

1120
01:11:07,520 --> 01:11:09,159
And I cried.

1121
01:11:09,159 --> 01:11:11,239
Speaker 1: So much that day.

1122
01:11:11,920 --> 01:11:14,439
Speaker 2: And it wasn't that exact day, but it was. It

1123
01:11:14,479 --> 01:11:18,520
was around then, and I had this dream and in

1124
01:11:18,560 --> 01:11:22,920
my dream, my house was empty like it is right now.

1125
01:11:23,000 --> 01:11:25,840
It wasn't like when I lived there, and it had furniture,

1126
01:11:25,960 --> 01:11:30,000
it had my decorations, and it had I used to

1127
01:11:30,000 --> 01:11:32,199
paint the walls of that house. I would just like

1128
01:11:32,439 --> 01:11:34,800
sometimes I was dressed, sometimes I was bored. But I

1129
01:11:35,159 --> 01:11:37,399
painted like a flower mural on a wall, and I

1130
01:11:37,439 --> 01:11:39,880
had a chalkboard wall, and I had a wall that

1131
01:11:40,039 --> 01:11:44,279
was covered in yellow polka dots, and it had my personality.

1132
01:11:44,439 --> 01:11:48,720
It had so much of my love poured into that house.

1133
01:11:48,920 --> 01:11:52,760
And so in my dream, I was walking through my

1134
01:11:52,880 --> 01:11:56,640
house and it was empty, and I could see that

1135
01:11:56,680 --> 01:12:00,239
they had painted the walls, and I remember touching the

1136
01:12:00,279 --> 01:12:05,640
walls and feeling the texture of you know, the whatever

1137
01:12:05,720 --> 01:12:10,439
wall texture they put on. And the dining room was

1138
01:12:10,479 --> 01:12:13,399
one of my favorite rooms in that house. It's where

1139
01:12:13,439 --> 01:12:15,840
I filmed a lot of content for my Instagram page.

1140
01:12:17,680 --> 01:12:21,640
It was like there was these shelves built and I

1141
01:12:21,680 --> 01:12:23,880
had all my oddities on there and it just was

1142
01:12:23,920 --> 01:12:27,720
a room that I loved. The kids didn't really use

1143
01:12:27,760 --> 01:12:31,119
that room. I loved the dining room. We didn't eat there.

1144
01:12:31,199 --> 01:12:33,079
It just was a spot for me to like sit

1145
01:12:33,560 --> 01:12:38,960
and do whatever, excuse me, do whatever. But there was

1146
01:12:39,000 --> 01:12:42,079
a spot on the ceiling where when I painted that wall,

1147
01:12:42,439 --> 01:12:45,000
I got dark blue on the ceiling and I never

1148
01:12:45,079 --> 01:12:47,560
fixed it because it's my toxic trait. I don't know

1149
01:12:47,680 --> 01:12:49,960
what buck. If you live with me, I am a

1150
01:12:49,960 --> 01:12:51,920
paint of the ass I will paint stuff and then

1151
01:12:51,960 --> 01:12:54,399
I will leave it half finished for months until I

1152
01:12:54,439 --> 01:12:58,720
finish it, or I will have these like it's not

1153
01:12:58,760 --> 01:13:00,880
really manic, but for lack of a better word, I

1154
01:13:00,960 --> 01:13:03,800
call it like manic when I'm painting flower murals on

1155
01:13:03,840 --> 01:13:05,840
the walls, you know, and I do things like get

1156
01:13:05,840 --> 01:13:08,000
paint on the ceiling and I just never go back

1157
01:13:08,039 --> 01:13:12,520
and fix it. And I noticed in my dream that

1158
01:13:12,520 --> 01:13:14,800
that spot had been painted over, and it made me

1159
01:13:15,000 --> 01:13:19,640
so sad because it was I was like, I was like,

1160
01:13:19,680 --> 01:13:23,800
it looks really nice. They painted that room was dark

1161
01:13:23,840 --> 01:13:27,439
gray now, so they repainted it, but the house is

1162
01:13:27,479 --> 01:13:30,880
still empty. But it was this moment where I do

1163
01:13:30,960 --> 01:13:33,159
a lot of dream traveling, which we haven't gotten into.

1164
01:13:33,319 --> 01:13:35,840
So that sounds like kind of out of left field.

1165
01:13:35,880 --> 01:13:38,319
I'm sure your listeners will be through it anyways, though.

1166
01:13:38,359 --> 01:13:40,039
But I do a lot of dream traveling, and those

1167
01:13:40,119 --> 01:13:43,359
dreams feel different. It's not like your normal dream because

1168
01:13:43,359 --> 01:13:46,039
you don't have that level of awareness. Like I was

1169
01:13:46,159 --> 01:13:50,279
actively processing my emotions while I was standing in my

1170
01:13:50,479 --> 01:13:53,760
house in Florida, and it was my house, no one

1171
01:13:53,760 --> 01:13:56,279
else was living in there. It wasn't like a weird

1172
01:13:56,399 --> 01:13:59,239
in between space that was my house as it is

1173
01:14:00,119 --> 01:14:05,479
right now, empty and freshly painted, you know. And so

1174
01:14:05,600 --> 01:14:09,840
the next morning I woke up and what I usually

1175
01:14:09,880 --> 01:14:13,000
do when I have these experiences is I will talk

1176
01:14:13,039 --> 01:14:14,640
to a couple, I will talk it over with a

1177
01:14:14,680 --> 01:14:17,119
couple of my friends, and then I'll usually grab my

1178
01:14:17,199 --> 01:14:20,720
cards and be like, what was this, you know, Like

1179
01:14:20,840 --> 01:14:24,560
what did I just experience? So from what I've been

1180
01:14:24,600 --> 01:14:30,279
able to tell, that was me astral traveling, Like whatever language,

1181
01:14:30,319 --> 01:14:34,920
whatever terminology you want to use, I missed my life

1182
01:14:35,119 --> 01:14:38,800
and I missed my house, and I traveled back to it.

1183
01:14:39,000 --> 01:14:43,399
I went there in my sleep, and I feel like

1184
01:14:43,399 --> 01:14:45,840
I interacted with someone. I can't remember that one right now,

1185
01:14:45,880 --> 01:14:48,319
but like that was the core of the moment that

1186
01:14:48,399 --> 01:14:52,439
I didn't want to be here. I didn't want to

1187
01:14:52,439 --> 01:14:55,159
be in this house. I wanted my space, I wanted

1188
01:14:55,199 --> 01:14:57,479
my freedom. So I went back to the last place

1189
01:14:57,520 --> 01:14:59,479
that I had it, which was my house in Florida,

1190
01:15:00,720 --> 01:15:06,960
and I started talking about it, and Jordan Keith and

1191
01:15:07,039 --> 01:15:10,159
I had been talking a lot recently about different ghost

1192
01:15:10,239 --> 01:15:15,159
theories and what a haunting even is, and that led

1193
01:15:15,239 --> 01:15:19,199
me to the most fascinating question to me, which is,

1194
01:15:20,079 --> 01:15:23,000
if another person had been there, would they have been

1195
01:15:23,079 --> 01:15:26,760
able to feel me there, because you know how they

1196
01:15:26,800 --> 01:15:29,079
say that, like when you move things around in a

1197
01:15:29,119 --> 01:15:32,159
house or when there's renovations, it stirs the spirits up.

1198
01:15:32,920 --> 01:15:36,399
My walls got painted, and I was sad about it.

1199
01:15:36,600 --> 01:15:40,760
Me a living human, which just makes me wonder about

1200
01:15:41,880 --> 01:15:44,920
so much about hauntings in general. I have a million

1201
01:15:44,920 --> 01:15:48,800
and one different haunting theories. But in this particular instance,

1202
01:15:49,680 --> 01:15:53,079
I am dying to know if somebody else had been there,

1203
01:15:54,000 --> 01:15:56,359
would they been able to sense me? Would they have

1204
01:15:56,479 --> 01:16:00,560
been able to feel the grief that I felt in

1205
01:16:00,960 --> 01:16:04,520
knowing that I have to give up my home that

1206
01:16:04,800 --> 01:16:09,079
like this house. I know why I don't live there,

1207
01:16:09,159 --> 01:16:11,279
I know why I can't move back there, but this

1208
01:16:11,479 --> 01:16:14,600
is still my home, and I'm still sad about it, you.

1209
01:16:14,600 --> 01:16:25,199
Speaker 1: Know, Yeah, Yeah, it's really interesting I have. I have

1210
01:16:25,279 --> 01:16:33,439
dreams all the time about my last childhood home and

1211
01:16:33,640 --> 01:16:36,960
my ex mother in law's home which I lived in

1212
01:16:37,800 --> 01:16:47,319
for a period of time. And I don't know if anybody,

1213
01:16:48,239 --> 01:16:52,079
I mean, I know somebody's living in my old childhood home,

1214
01:16:53,880 --> 01:16:56,159
but I know that my mother in law still lives

1215
01:16:56,920 --> 01:17:03,119
in her home, and she has some of my letters

1216
01:17:03,159 --> 01:17:09,039
and poems and writings stored away in her attic. She

1217
01:17:09,159 --> 01:17:10,079
never gave them back.

1218
01:17:11,720 --> 01:17:14,479
Speaker 2: So that's a piece of you in her attic, uh

1219
01:17:14,600 --> 01:17:18,319
huh huh and her heart felt piece of you yeaheah.

1220
01:17:18,800 --> 01:17:24,600
Speaker 1: Yeah, her house was already haunted. So I can't help

1221
01:17:24,640 --> 01:17:27,399
but think, is there a part of me, you know,

1222
01:17:27,520 --> 01:17:31,760
my twenty something year old self floating around up in

1223
01:17:31,760 --> 01:17:33,319
that attic, around that box?

1224
01:17:33,439 --> 01:17:33,720
Speaker 2: Right?

1225
01:17:34,359 --> 01:17:37,800
Speaker 1: Yeah, It's like, yeah, if anybody could see me?

1226
01:17:38,119 --> 01:17:41,800
Speaker 2: It could could somebody see if if I walked into

1227
01:17:41,840 --> 01:17:44,840
my house, if I wasn't me and I walked into

1228
01:17:44,880 --> 01:17:48,079
my house, would I be able to feel that that

1229
01:17:48,199 --> 01:17:51,479
piece of me, that part of me that still exists there.

1230
01:17:52,039 --> 01:17:56,720
That's that's the question, and that that's what makes everything

1231
01:17:56,720 --> 01:17:59,640
that what that we do so interesting. Whether it's like

1232
01:18:00,840 --> 01:18:03,359
you know, I write about it in a fictional sense now,

1233
01:18:03,600 --> 01:18:08,159
but like it's that kind of curiosity for the way

1234
01:18:08,199 --> 01:18:11,399
that the world works, and to say, what if, what

1235
01:18:11,479 --> 01:18:14,079
if you're still in your mother in law's attic, What

1236
01:18:14,119 --> 01:18:16,359
if twenty year old you is still really upset that

1237
01:18:16,399 --> 01:18:19,800
you didn't get your poems back. What if the me

1238
01:18:20,119 --> 01:18:24,039
that went through everything that I did in Florida is

1239
01:18:24,079 --> 01:18:27,920
still there and still being like I'm here. What do

1240
01:18:28,000 --> 01:18:30,680
you mean I live here? This is my house.

1241
01:18:31,600 --> 01:18:36,319
Speaker 1: Yeah, yeah, yeah, it's kind of like it. It's like

1242
01:18:36,399 --> 01:18:38,640
the living version of the movie The Others.

1243
01:18:38,840 --> 01:18:41,239
Speaker 2: Exactly, yeah, exactly.

1244
01:18:41,560 --> 01:18:45,399
Speaker 1: And and if that's the case, WHOA I know that

1245
01:18:45,439 --> 01:18:47,039
has a lot of implications.

1246
01:18:47,479 --> 01:18:52,039
Speaker 2: It's it's wild to me. Well, I started noticing when

1247
01:18:52,199 --> 01:18:53,960
when I got to my parents' house and I didn't

1248
01:18:54,000 --> 01:18:56,760
have the constant influx that I had when I was

1249
01:18:56,800 --> 01:19:02,880
in Florida. I started to notice that the spirits that

1250
01:19:02,960 --> 01:19:06,640
seek me out more often than not are women who

1251
01:19:06,640 --> 01:19:10,119
have seen some shit or children sometimes right, it's I don't.

1252
01:19:10,199 --> 01:19:12,000
Every once in a while I get a man, but

1253
01:19:12,640 --> 01:19:15,279
most of the time I get women who want to

1254
01:19:15,279 --> 01:19:18,119
tell me what happened to them. And I started thinking

1255
01:19:18,159 --> 01:19:21,279
about it, because sometimes they're able to tell me all

1256
01:19:21,319 --> 01:19:24,039
about their life, and they'll tell me what their childhood

1257
01:19:24,119 --> 01:19:27,520
was like, and they'll tell me beyond the moment of pain.

1258
01:19:28,359 --> 01:19:33,600
But I also have spoken to several spirits who seems

1259
01:19:33,640 --> 01:19:36,920
to only exist in their pain. Like when I had

1260
01:19:37,000 --> 01:19:43,800
asked about their childhood, it was like like like a

1261
01:19:43,840 --> 01:19:48,199
fuzzy radio where it's like the coming in and out

1262
01:19:48,199 --> 01:19:50,640
and then they loop around and they repeat the same

1263
01:19:50,720 --> 01:19:54,399
message of this is what happened to me, this is

1264
01:19:54,479 --> 01:19:58,319
what I'm feeling. I'm upset about this, And in the

1265
01:19:58,399 --> 01:20:02,319
past I didn't necessarily disregard, but I didn't have a

1266
01:20:02,359 --> 01:20:06,439
lot of experience with spirits who were like splintered or

1267
01:20:06,680 --> 01:20:10,680
like really the the idea of the concept, the theory

1268
01:20:10,760 --> 01:20:13,239
that a piece of your soul is stuck in that

1269
01:20:13,319 --> 01:20:16,680
moment of pain, and it's not that you're unable to

1270
01:20:16,720 --> 01:20:19,159
move on, it's just that you don't know that you're

1271
01:20:19,199 --> 01:20:23,359
not in that moment anymore. So like mm hm, you

1272
01:20:23,119 --> 01:20:29,479
in your former in laws attic, it reasonably could be

1273
01:20:29,600 --> 01:20:33,319
a piece of you. And maybe the reason why these

1274
01:20:33,399 --> 01:20:37,079
spirits can't give more than that moment is because that's

1275
01:20:37,119 --> 01:20:39,840
all that matters. That's all that's real to them, is

1276
01:20:39,840 --> 01:20:41,560
that the rest of them is moved on, and for

1277
01:20:41,640 --> 01:20:45,119
whatever reason, it's just this piece, this sliver of their

1278
01:20:45,199 --> 01:20:50,640
life that impacted them so much that a piece of

1279
01:20:50,680 --> 01:20:54,600
them is still reliving it, which sounds terrible and kind

1280
01:20:54,640 --> 01:21:01,039
of sad, but that's why people like us exist to say, Okay,

1281
01:21:01,079 --> 01:21:02,239
what about that, then.

1282
01:21:03,199 --> 01:21:07,279
Speaker 1: Let's let's see if we can release that. That's not good. Well,

1283
01:21:07,319 --> 01:21:11,159
that's The thing that I learned in shamanic training was

1284
01:21:11,760 --> 01:21:18,479
soul retrieval. Is that when traumas happen, sometimes a bit

1285
01:21:18,520 --> 01:21:21,199
of the soul just just like I can't deal breaks up,

1286
01:21:21,239 --> 01:21:22,840
I'm out of here, yep, yep.

1287
01:21:23,119 --> 01:21:23,640
Speaker 2: It it defends.

1288
01:21:23,720 --> 01:21:28,960
Speaker 1: But what happens is that it gets stuck and then people,

1289
01:21:30,000 --> 01:21:35,600
you know, wander around with pieces of themselves. Yes, exactly,

1290
01:21:35,640 --> 01:21:38,199
and that's that can't be good. It can't be good.

1291
01:21:38,279 --> 01:21:41,520
Speaker 2: It can't be good. I like to reference Foldemort from

1292
01:21:41,600 --> 01:21:44,439
Harry Potter with that with the horcruxes, because he did

1293
01:21:44,479 --> 01:21:47,239
that on purpose, So that is that is a distinction.

1294
01:21:47,359 --> 01:21:49,960
He did that to himself. And these cases are not

1295
01:21:50,199 --> 01:21:51,479
like nobody is like.

1296
01:21:51,800 --> 01:21:54,279
Speaker 1: Cool, I'm gonna do this.

1297
01:21:54,399 --> 01:21:57,239
Speaker 2: Sounds fun, you know what sounds great? Haunting my house

1298
01:21:57,319 --> 01:22:02,680
in Florida forever? Oh yeah, yeah it is. It's just

1299
01:22:03,880 --> 01:22:08,359
it's interesting to me, like, what what does make a ghost?

1300
01:22:08,479 --> 01:22:10,680
And there I'm sure that there's times in the past

1301
01:22:10,720 --> 01:22:12,279
that I've been like, I'm pretty sure that this is

1302
01:22:12,279 --> 01:22:14,319
what a ghost is, and now I'm like, I don't know.

1303
01:22:14,720 --> 01:22:16,960
It could be so many different things. It could be

1304
01:22:17,000 --> 01:22:18,960
so many different things, and it could be different things

1305
01:22:19,000 --> 01:22:20,920
all at once. Just to make it more confusing.

1306
01:22:21,800 --> 01:22:25,520
Speaker 1: Yeah, I completely agree. We should. We should do another

1307
01:22:25,560 --> 01:22:28,760
episode just about ghosts and what we think they are.

1308
01:22:28,880 --> 01:22:29,640
Speaker 2: It would be fun.

1309
01:22:30,960 --> 01:22:34,479
Speaker 1: That's just it's such a can of worms and it.

1310
01:22:34,520 --> 01:22:40,800
Speaker 2: Is yeah, it's a uh yeah, yeah, it's a can

1311
01:22:40,840 --> 01:22:45,840
of worms. And there's just there's so many theories. And

1312
01:22:46,600 --> 01:22:49,279
I will say I am a skeptical believer, so I

1313
01:22:49,720 --> 01:22:52,760
tend to believe things that I've experienced. And so, like

1314
01:22:52,840 --> 01:22:56,039
I had already been like noticing this pattern of like,

1315
01:22:56,199 --> 01:23:00,840
you know what I'm I don't get people's loved ones

1316
01:23:00,840 --> 01:23:02,920
who have passed on and been like, hey, can you

1317
01:23:03,000 --> 01:23:04,640
tell so and so that I really love them and

1318
01:23:04,720 --> 01:23:07,520
I missed them. No, I don't get ghosts like that.

1319
01:23:07,760 --> 01:23:09,640
And I had already been like in the process of

1320
01:23:09,680 --> 01:23:12,079
being like why is that? What is it about me

1321
01:23:12,279 --> 01:23:14,840
that I'm like, like, what frequency do I shine on?

1322
01:23:14,960 --> 01:23:17,680
That's like, hey, ghosts, tell me your most fucked up stories,

1323
01:23:17,720 --> 01:23:20,319
because I want to hear them. I do to be fair,

1324
01:23:22,079 --> 01:23:26,359
But you know, it's like, I don't know if I

1325
01:23:26,399 --> 01:23:28,840
hadn't already been thinking about those things when I had

1326
01:23:28,840 --> 01:23:32,279
that dream of my house in Florida, would I have

1327
01:23:33,279 --> 01:23:36,960
entertained the idea that I had actually been in my

1328
01:23:37,079 --> 01:23:41,600
house in Florida, or would I just have logically assumed

1329
01:23:42,079 --> 01:23:44,960
that I was homesick and I didn't like my situation,

1330
01:23:45,279 --> 01:23:47,680
so I'm dreaming about it, you know what I mean.

1331
01:23:47,800 --> 01:23:51,560
It's like it's those small differations in thought that Like,

1332
01:23:51,760 --> 01:23:54,039
it doesn't mean that both are not true because I

1333
01:23:54,920 --> 01:23:58,279
was unhappy, I didn't want to be here, But that

1334
01:23:58,359 --> 01:24:02,640
doesn't mean that I wasn't actually there either. Yeah, that's

1335
01:24:02,680 --> 01:24:03,680
the wild part to me.

1336
01:24:04,920 --> 01:24:11,039
Speaker 1: Yeah, and I will give corroborating testimony that I certainly

1337
01:24:11,079 --> 01:24:14,960
don't want to be in my ex mother in law's

1338
01:24:14,960 --> 01:24:18,520
attic at all. That's the place I always dream about.

1339
01:24:19,279 --> 01:24:21,239
I mean, I dream about the rest of the house too,

1340
01:24:21,319 --> 01:24:22,399
but the attic is.

1341
01:24:22,399 --> 01:24:25,760
Speaker 2: But the attic, specifically the attic is where you have

1342
01:24:25,920 --> 01:24:31,920
the tie to your belonging still in the attic. So that, yeah,

1343
01:24:32,159 --> 01:24:33,720
it makes perfect sense to me.

1344
01:24:34,640 --> 01:24:37,800
Speaker 1: Exactly it does. But you know, I didn't want to

1345
01:24:37,840 --> 01:24:42,039
go there, so it may be that, you know, sometimes

1346
01:24:42,079 --> 01:24:46,960
we just go where we want or go where we

1347
01:24:46,960 --> 01:24:47,600
were left.

1348
01:24:48,079 --> 01:24:52,319
Speaker 2: Yep, yeah, I think it can be both. Like I

1349
01:24:52,720 --> 01:24:55,800
will say that I have I do not know how

1350
01:24:55,840 --> 01:24:58,760
to travel places on purpose. I've been trying to experiment

1351
01:24:58,800 --> 01:25:01,000
with it because like I'm like, well, I'm doing this

1352
01:25:01,000 --> 01:25:03,319
more and more, I might as well figure out how

1353
01:25:03,319 --> 01:25:06,920
it works. I have no clue. I have no clue,

1354
01:25:07,479 --> 01:25:12,600
but it has been interesting once you were if you're

1355
01:25:12,600 --> 01:25:15,439
willing to open your mind to the possibility that some

1356
01:25:15,520 --> 01:25:18,199
of these things could be real and to just kind

1357
01:25:18,199 --> 01:25:21,720
of track like it doesn't even have to be like, well, tonight,

1358
01:25:21,760 --> 01:25:23,079
I'm going to go to sleep and I'm going to

1359
01:25:23,079 --> 01:25:27,000
go to Bermuda or whatever like that sounds fantastic. First

1360
01:25:27,039 --> 01:25:30,359
of all, I love a beach, but it for me,

1361
01:25:30,520 --> 01:25:34,760
it's almost more like, huh, this thinking is happening. I

1362
01:25:34,800 --> 01:25:36,800
should make note of it and see if there's a

1363
01:25:36,840 --> 01:25:41,239
pattern here and see see where it leads me.

1364
01:25:44,800 --> 01:25:46,920
Speaker 1: And my case, I would never go to Bermuda because

1365
01:25:46,920 --> 01:25:51,720
I'd get stuck there because you know triangle that you know.

1366
01:25:52,479 --> 01:25:55,720
I just watched the compass has spinning. I can't get home.

1367
01:25:56,119 --> 01:25:59,439
Speaker 2: I don't I watched The Adams Family yesterday, so it

1368
01:25:59,439 --> 01:26:03,159
was on my mind where Wednesday was like nobody gets

1369
01:26:03,159 --> 01:26:11,279
out of the Bermuda triangle. But yeah, that's that is

1370
01:26:12,000 --> 01:26:14,960
that That is me and hauntings in a nutshell. That's

1371
01:26:16,840 --> 01:26:21,000
I believe a lot of different things are possible. I

1372
01:26:21,039 --> 01:26:23,840
think that more things about hauntings are true than I

1373
01:26:23,880 --> 01:26:26,399
am aware of, than I know, than I probably will

1374
01:26:26,399 --> 01:26:29,359
ever know. And I think that that's true for most things.

1375
01:26:29,960 --> 01:26:33,199
And I'm okay with that. I like. I like the unknown.

1376
01:26:33,359 --> 01:26:41,960
I like exploring. I like I like theorizing and trying

1377
01:26:41,960 --> 01:26:44,960
to figure out what could be real, even if I'm

1378
01:26:45,000 --> 01:26:46,720
a skeptical asshole for half of it.

1379
01:26:48,039 --> 01:26:54,640
Speaker 1: Oh, you know, when I'm experiencing something, I am skeptical

1380
01:26:55,600 --> 01:26:58,279
as all that out. I sit there, you know, there's

1381
01:26:58,319 --> 01:27:00,680
a light in the sky and it's doing weird crap,

1382
01:27:01,319 --> 01:27:03,880
and I'm looking at it, going, uh, is it a plane?

1383
01:27:04,319 --> 01:27:08,640
Is it not? There's not any FAA lights. Okay, is

1384
01:27:08,680 --> 01:27:12,000
it no, there's no strobe. Oh, it's changing colors and

1385
01:27:12,039 --> 01:27:15,920
it's doing a right angle turn. It's definitely not a plane. Okay,

1386
01:27:16,039 --> 01:27:18,640
you know, is it a drone? Because now we have

1387
01:27:18,680 --> 01:27:20,000
to worry about drone right?

1388
01:27:20,079 --> 01:27:20,239
Speaker 2: Oh?

1389
01:27:20,319 --> 01:27:23,880
Speaker 1: Yes, but they have to have a specific light as well.

1390
01:27:24,039 --> 01:27:27,479
So I'm like, what is it? There's no noise, you know.

1391
01:27:27,560 --> 01:27:29,880
So I sit there and I run through all of

1392
01:27:29,920 --> 01:27:34,279
these different things. And but when people tell me stories.

1393
01:27:34,520 --> 01:27:38,079
I don't do that because I'm like, they know, these

1394
01:27:38,199 --> 01:27:44,359
these people have experienced something, and you know, I believe

1395
01:27:44,359 --> 01:27:46,479
if they're going to talk about it yep, in front

1396
01:27:46,479 --> 01:27:48,640
of people, that they've experienced it.

1397
01:27:49,079 --> 01:27:52,520
Speaker 2: In the same way, because what what benefit do you

1398
01:27:52,600 --> 01:27:55,359
have from talking about these things? Like even like I

1399
01:27:55,479 --> 01:27:58,239
have stories that make me I literally just told you

1400
01:27:58,319 --> 01:28:00,800
that I dream traveled to my house Florida, right, but

1401
01:28:00,920 --> 01:28:03,279
like I have wilder stories than that, And like, if

1402
01:28:03,319 --> 01:28:07,840
I'm willing to say that, it's because I understand that

1403
01:28:07,920 --> 01:28:10,239
it happened to me, and I feel like other people

1404
01:28:10,359 --> 01:28:14,439
deserve that same respect, where like I might not understand

1405
01:28:14,640 --> 01:28:18,680
what happened to you, but I will always try my

1406
01:28:18,760 --> 01:28:21,680
best to be open minded and to listen to your

1407
01:28:22,279 --> 01:28:26,600
experience because was it actual, paranormal? Was it not? I

1408
01:28:26,640 --> 01:28:29,479
don't know, but it happened to you, and that makes

1409
01:28:29,520 --> 01:28:36,079
it real. And that's the thing. If you experienced it

1410
01:28:36,119 --> 01:28:39,520
and it's real to you, then it is real. It's

1411
01:28:39,600 --> 01:28:43,439
not fake. It's not you know, like is there a

1412
01:28:43,520 --> 01:28:47,159
Muggle interpretation? Maybe sometimes there is, Yeah, but that doesn't

1413
01:28:47,199 --> 01:28:50,319
mean that it wasn't a real event that you experienced

1414
01:28:51,359 --> 01:28:53,199
exactly exactly.

1415
01:28:53,279 --> 01:28:59,359
Speaker 1: I am so the same way, because I truly see

1416
01:28:59,359 --> 01:29:03,920
no benefit it in people just making up stories, right

1417
01:29:04,399 --> 01:29:08,000
like that, well, especially in the paranorm write it down

1418
01:29:08,039 --> 01:29:08,960
and get money for it.

1419
01:29:09,000 --> 01:29:12,960
Speaker 2: I'm right, yeah, Like I have yet to be able

1420
01:29:13,000 --> 01:29:18,319
to transform any of my actual encounters onto paper because

1421
01:29:18,359 --> 01:29:21,199
I'm so obsessed with getting all the details right. And

1422
01:29:21,239 --> 01:29:25,039
I'm like, who who would subject themselves to this? This

1423
01:29:25,199 --> 01:29:32,479
is terrible? This is absolutely terrible. But yeah, and especially

1424
01:29:32,680 --> 01:29:38,159
if you look at alien abductions or or hauntings or possessions,

1425
01:29:38,199 --> 01:29:39,840
which I'm a little bit on the fence about, if

1426
01:29:39,880 --> 01:29:43,239
I'm being perfectly honest, there are so many cases that

1427
01:29:43,319 --> 01:29:47,520
involve the strange and unusual that automatically get cast with

1428
01:29:47,680 --> 01:29:54,039
such suspicion and doubt that like, why would anyone get

1429
01:29:54,159 --> 01:29:57,319
up here and be like, this thing happened to me?

1430
01:29:58,079 --> 01:30:00,000
Let me tell you all about it, because you say,

1431
01:30:00,079 --> 01:30:03,640
sound a crazy and.

1432
01:30:03,560 --> 01:30:07,840
Speaker 1: Do you really want to sound crazy right publicly? You know, like.

1433
01:30:09,520 --> 01:30:14,880
Speaker 2: The yeah, it's if it's like a clear money grab,

1434
01:30:14,960 --> 01:30:18,600
then I'm a little bit wary. But most people aren't

1435
01:30:18,640 --> 01:30:21,640
trying to do that, and most people are terrified when

1436
01:30:21,640 --> 01:30:24,680
they're telling you about what they've experienced. Some like they'll

1437
01:30:24,760 --> 01:30:27,279
they'll be tell you stories and they'll start shaking or

1438
01:30:28,119 --> 01:30:29,600
really reliving it.

1439
01:30:29,439 --> 01:30:35,720
Speaker 1: And choke up. Ye can't speak exactly. Yeah, every everyone

1440
01:30:35,800 --> 01:30:39,479
I've talked about who's had those intense experiences, there is

1441
01:30:40,399 --> 01:30:43,560
the truth right there in their voice and on their faces.

1442
01:30:43,640 --> 01:30:43,880
Speaker 2: Yeah.

1443
01:30:43,880 --> 01:30:47,680
Speaker 1: And even though I don't post the video, I'm still

1444
01:30:47,760 --> 01:30:53,560
looking at them exactly while we're talking. Yep, and they're

1445
01:30:53,560 --> 01:30:56,960
not they're not. They're not bullshitting. You're telling the truth

1446
01:30:57,399 --> 01:31:00,800
as they understand it, as they experienced.

1447
01:31:00,119 --> 01:31:02,680
Speaker 2: Stand it as they experienced it, which makes it real.

1448
01:31:02,920 --> 01:31:05,880
And that's another thing that I like to explore, but

1449
01:31:05,920 --> 01:31:09,560
maybe not everybody does that. Technically, that is the fabric

1450
01:31:09,560 --> 01:31:12,520
of reality. It's because you experienced it that means it

1451
01:31:12,600 --> 01:31:18,119
is real. It's your reality. Yeah, it's not, is it everyone?

1452
01:31:18,439 --> 01:31:22,479
Maybe not? But it's yours. It's yours. That is your experience.

1453
01:31:23,159 --> 01:31:25,560
And we are honored to be the people that get

1454
01:31:25,600 --> 01:31:30,600
to hear those experiences and whatever we do with them.

1455
01:31:31,000 --> 01:31:33,319
I again, I haven't done any of these readings for

1456
01:31:33,399 --> 01:31:36,680
quite some time, but if I have had someone ask

1457
01:31:36,760 --> 01:31:40,520
me for a paranormal reading, I will. I will share

1458
01:31:40,560 --> 01:31:43,760
the reading without sharing any details. And so basically I

1459
01:31:43,840 --> 01:31:46,159
will say I was asked to do this, this is

1460
01:31:46,239 --> 01:31:49,039
what I've learned, but without giving any details about the

1461
01:31:49,039 --> 01:31:52,119
person or too much about the case itself, because to me,

1462
01:31:53,439 --> 01:31:58,239
that moment is private. And I even have people be like, no, no,

1463
01:31:58,279 --> 01:32:00,239
you can share all the details. You can give all

1464
01:32:00,279 --> 01:32:03,640
of this, And sometimes I share more on those ones

1465
01:32:03,680 --> 01:32:06,640
if I'm like really sure, but it's like, you know,

1466
01:32:06,760 --> 01:32:13,399
it's it. It's an honor to hear any of these stories.

1467
01:32:13,600 --> 01:32:17,399
Like I miss being in the position where I heard

1468
01:32:17,520 --> 01:32:20,079
more of them and I got to interact more with them.

1469
01:32:20,760 --> 01:32:23,000
But the ones that I've been able to hear and

1470
01:32:23,039 --> 01:32:25,800
the ones that I've been able to share have done

1471
01:32:25,880 --> 01:32:30,159
so much for me in opening my mind up. So like,

1472
01:32:31,640 --> 01:32:33,800
even if you want to look at the paranormal in

1473
01:32:33,880 --> 01:32:36,960
that sense that like, okay, you don't believe in ghosts,

1474
01:32:37,039 --> 01:32:40,439
but what did you learn from the situation or if

1475
01:32:40,479 --> 01:32:43,319
this isn't paranormal, Like what did you think when you

1476
01:32:43,319 --> 01:32:46,520
were feeling those feelings? You know? I just I think

1477
01:32:46,520 --> 01:32:50,960
that there's so much to be learned by studying people's

1478
01:32:51,000 --> 01:32:57,960
experiences period, whether it's supernatural, whether it's not supernatural, and

1479
01:32:58,600 --> 01:33:02,039
being one of those people gets to hear this crazy

1480
01:33:02,039 --> 01:33:04,600
thing happened to me? What do you think about it?

1481
01:33:04,640 --> 01:33:08,079
Is one of my favorite things that I don't get

1482
01:33:08,079 --> 01:33:10,199
to do as often anymore, but I really appreciate it

1483
01:33:10,199 --> 01:33:10,600
when I do.

1484
01:33:11,760 --> 01:33:18,640
Speaker 1: Yeah. Yeah, it fascinates me in a lot of ways.

1485
01:33:18,680 --> 01:33:25,239
It makes me feel hopeful in a way about reality that,

1486
01:33:25,600 --> 01:33:27,960
you know, the reality I've been living in since I

1487
01:33:28,039 --> 01:33:31,399
was a kid, is not so crazy. After all. There

1488
01:33:31,399 --> 01:33:35,359
are other people moving through that reality. You know. They

1489
01:33:35,359 --> 01:33:38,479
may not be moving through right at the exact place

1490
01:33:38,520 --> 01:33:43,039
I was at and am at, but they're in there, yep.

1491
01:33:43,680 --> 01:33:48,359
And every person I hear from who you know, then

1492
01:33:48,479 --> 01:33:53,439
stabilizes there, you know, after telling their story, I feel

1493
01:33:53,439 --> 01:33:58,840
like just listening yep, was helpful to them and was

1494
01:33:58,880 --> 01:34:01,279
healing to them. And that means a lot to me

1495
01:34:01,399 --> 01:34:05,640
to be able to say, you know what, you're not crazy, Yeah, yeah,

1496
01:34:05,760 --> 01:34:07,399
at all. It is.

1497
01:34:07,479 --> 01:34:11,199
Speaker 2: It's an important moment to be like, yeah, thank you,

1498
01:34:11,439 --> 01:34:14,960
because when you see the relief that they have, it's

1499
01:34:15,119 --> 01:34:20,439
just it's really nice. And I'm not always able to

1500
01:34:20,520 --> 01:34:24,399
provide answers. I'm always honest about it if I don't know,

1501
01:34:25,239 --> 01:34:28,359
but yeah, you know, I'm not always able to provide

1502
01:34:28,560 --> 01:34:31,960
the answers. But what I am able to do is

1503
01:34:32,039 --> 01:34:38,359
to sit and listen and at least just hold space

1504
01:34:38,520 --> 01:34:42,079
for the thing that you experienced. And you know, there's

1505
01:34:42,119 --> 01:34:45,600
definitely times when I haven't really had much to say

1506
01:34:45,920 --> 01:34:49,760
or like besides, like, whoa, I can't believe that just happened,

1507
01:34:49,800 --> 01:34:56,640
you know, but yeah, it still is. It's it's a

1508
01:34:56,680 --> 01:35:00,640
really cool part of being in this community is knowing

1509
01:35:00,720 --> 01:35:04,880
that people trust you enough to come to you with

1510
01:35:05,000 --> 01:35:09,239
these bizarre stories and say this happened to me, and

1511
01:35:09,439 --> 01:35:11,720
know that you're not going to turn away and you're

1512
01:35:11,720 --> 01:35:14,279
not going to tell them that they're imagining it or

1513
01:35:14,319 --> 01:35:18,560
that they're crazy, because they've probably been hearing that their

1514
01:35:18,600 --> 01:35:22,800
whole lives anyways, and the fact that they've approached you

1515
01:35:24,159 --> 01:35:26,720
means that they've already thought. Maybe not every time, but

1516
01:35:27,039 --> 01:35:30,399
a lot of the time, people have already thought about

1517
01:35:30,439 --> 01:35:31,840
like what are they going to think about me if

1518
01:35:31,880 --> 01:35:34,319
I bring ghosts up right now? What are they going

1519
01:35:34,359 --> 01:35:37,239
to think about me if I say I'm pretty sure

1520
01:35:37,279 --> 01:35:40,439
my house is haunted, or you know, things like that.

1521
01:35:40,600 --> 01:35:45,960
So just being someone that people feel comfortable coming to

1522
01:35:46,239 --> 01:35:51,720
and saying I experience something heavy, whether it's real life

1523
01:35:51,760 --> 01:35:59,640
trauma or something supernatural and just listening is It's big

1524
01:35:59,680 --> 01:36:02,399
for me, and a lot of that translates into my

1525
01:36:02,439 --> 01:36:07,960
writing now. But at my core, what I love doing

1526
01:36:08,239 --> 01:36:12,720
is exactly this. It's talking ghosts, it's theorizing. It's helping

1527
01:36:12,720 --> 01:36:17,920
people understand their experiences in a new light if I can,

1528
01:36:18,359 --> 01:36:22,239
and if I can't, then that's okay too. But I

1529
01:36:22,439 --> 01:36:28,800
like exploring people's memories with them and saying, you know, well,

1530
01:36:28,840 --> 01:36:31,520
how did that feel. I mean, that's like a normal

1531
01:36:31,640 --> 01:36:35,640
therapist question, but like you know, exploring it with cards

1532
01:36:35,760 --> 01:36:39,920
or with the metaphysical, or taking those moments and turning

1533
01:36:39,960 --> 01:36:43,199
them into a story like I did with my life,

1534
01:36:43,199 --> 01:36:47,520
where it's like this isn't me anymore, but it's it's all,

1535
01:36:47,880 --> 01:36:50,600
as Jordan likes to say fingers. On the same hand,

1536
01:36:50,680 --> 01:36:54,399
it's it's exploration into the unknown. I'm just using different

1537
01:36:54,439 --> 01:36:58,439
tools than I used to and it's it's an adjustment,

1538
01:36:58,960 --> 01:36:59,640
but I love it.

1539
01:37:02,399 --> 01:37:05,960
Speaker 1: I agree. I agree, that's the best part of having

1540
01:37:05,960 --> 01:37:12,600
a podcast. And I love being able to say to people, no, no, this,

1541
01:37:12,600 --> 01:37:16,199
this is real and it's okay yep, and you will be.

1542
01:37:16,239 --> 01:37:18,640
Speaker 2: Okay, you will be okay. It's going to be hard,

1543
01:37:19,079 --> 01:37:20,199
but you're going to be okay.

1544
01:37:21,439 --> 01:37:26,439
Speaker 1: Yeah, yeah, yeah, and yeah, I just I just feel

1545
01:37:26,479 --> 01:37:29,960
like it's it's an important thing to do. So yeah,

1546
01:37:30,039 --> 01:37:33,880
here we are here, we are doing it, yes, doing

1547
01:37:33,920 --> 01:37:37,600
the thing, as we say in our family, doing the thing,

1548
01:37:37,760 --> 01:37:40,600
doing it right, not fucking up, and it works. It

1549
01:37:40,840 --> 01:37:41,359
just works.

1550
01:37:42,600 --> 01:37:46,600
Speaker 2: That's amazing. I love that doing the thing, doing it

1551
01:37:46,720 --> 01:37:48,800
right and it just works. I'm gonna use that now.

1552
01:37:49,000 --> 01:37:54,359
My favorite thing to say is, well, I say, feel

1553
01:37:54,439 --> 01:37:55,760
the fear and do it anyways.

1554
01:37:55,760 --> 01:37:58,880
Speaker 1: That's what I and that's what braves.

1555
01:37:58,680 --> 01:38:01,760
Speaker 2: Exactly what you could be as scared as you wind,

1556
01:38:01,880 --> 01:38:04,199
you still do the fucking thing and way to go.

1557
01:38:04,359 --> 01:38:06,079
Even if it didn't work, you.

1558
01:38:06,199 --> 01:38:08,880
Speaker 1: Did it, so you win. But did it even though

1559
01:38:08,880 --> 01:38:11,039
you were scared, did it exactly it?

1560
01:38:11,199 --> 01:38:11,439
Speaker 2: Yep.

1561
01:38:12,000 --> 01:38:14,439
Speaker 1: Yeah, And that's that's the way to be.

1562
01:38:14,680 --> 01:38:18,159
Speaker 2: That's the way to be. Yeah.

1563
01:38:18,199 --> 01:38:25,000
Speaker 1: Well, well, thank you so much. I was looking forward

1564
01:38:25,079 --> 01:38:25,439
to this.

1565
01:38:25,439 --> 01:38:28,640
Speaker 2: This is great, this was wonderful. Thank you so much

1566
01:38:28,680 --> 01:38:31,199
for talking to me. This has been a lot of fun.

1567
01:38:32,000 --> 01:38:35,359
Speaker 1: It has been fun, and you're welcome back anytime. I'd

1568
01:38:35,359 --> 01:38:37,960
really love to talk ghost theory with you. Oh yeah,

1569
01:38:38,000 --> 01:38:40,760
I love that and yeah, yeah, yeah, that'll be fun.

1570
01:38:41,800 --> 01:38:44,439
Speaker 2: That would be super cool. I would love that.

1571
01:38:44,720 --> 01:38:50,199
Speaker 1: So yeah, thank you, thank you. Well, that's all for

1572
01:38:50,239 --> 01:38:53,560
this week's episode of the Six Degrees of John Keel podcast.

1573
01:38:54,119 --> 01:38:57,039
If you have any questions or thoughts about the podcast,

1574
01:38:57,119 --> 01:38:59,640
or would like to come and talk about your experiences

1575
01:38:59,640 --> 01:39:02,920
of the pay a Normal you can contact us at

1576
01:39:03,000 --> 01:39:07,079
six D j K six seven at gmail dot com.

1577
01:39:07,840 --> 01:39:11,560
We promised even answer you, and we are always happy

1578
01:39:11,600 --> 01:39:13,720
to hear from you. Thank you,