Speaker 1: Welcome to the Marvel Allonce Podcast, Recover anything and everything
Speaker 1: to do with the Marvel Universe for the comics, TV
Speaker 1: and movies. Who will go from first six one six
Speaker 1: to the to the moto verse to and to get
Speaker 1: to the bar. It's right Marvel, right to you. I'm
Speaker 1: the man without dear Chris. I'm the nerd with the mouth,
Speaker 1: David Alliance A symbol A symbol, Volume two hundred and
Speaker 1: ninety seven. And as you hear that cry, you know
Speaker 1: it's Punish your time the Punisher to see he hes
Speaker 1: the special presentation to Punisher one last Kale has arrived.
Speaker 1: David and I have thoughts, a lot of I.
Speaker 2: Definitely have thought surprising, yep, but thoughts we had.
Speaker 1: Yeah, I thought we had, you know, and maybe some
Speaker 1: hot takes by some but somebody consider. But if you're
Speaker 1: watching the video, you will notice that David is not
Speaker 1: in his normal nerd setup. He is in a very
Speaker 1: it almost looks like he's in a very boring like
Speaker 1: hostage taking situation, which I appropriately Punisher I'm in.
Speaker 2: I'm in witness protection.
Speaker 3: I saw some things with the Nucci family that you know,
Speaker 3: I had to go take cover. But no I am
Speaker 3: I am live from a hotel room. Like I always say,
Speaker 3: we do this for you, the listeners. I am out
Speaker 3: of town, I'm away from home, but I still wanted
Speaker 3: to give my thoughts on this one shot, so I
Speaker 3: brought my setup with me to the hotel in order
Speaker 3: to do the best that I can.
Speaker 1: Hey, you know again, we do this for you, you
Speaker 1: the people. But we appreciate you taking the time out
Speaker 1: of her at your travels to do this. It is
Speaker 1: a you know, kind of a big deal. This is,
Speaker 1: you know, right now, the end of a very long
Speaker 1: string of guaranteed content from our lines. Well, we'll see
Speaker 1: what happens as we go forward, as we head into
Speaker 1: the summer. At that point, we've got bears layer in there,
Speaker 1: a lot of out loud exactly thoughts to be had.
Speaker 1: It was interesting. Yep, doesn't necessarily mean it's bad. It's
Speaker 1: just it. You know, we'll let's have to talk about it.
Speaker 1: But yeah, week's been good. This is I at time
Speaker 1: recording the I am less than a week from closing
Speaker 1: out the school year. This is the last full week
Speaker 1: of school year, go through half day Wednesday, close out
Speaker 1: the year, and right now we're looking real strong. I'm
Speaker 1: so happy with what our teachers have been doing and
Speaker 1: everything like that. I can't be any more proud of them,
Speaker 1: proud of what the students have been able to do.
Speaker 1: It's it's it's been. It's been a long week, but
Speaker 1: it's been a lot of good surprises and a lot
Speaker 1: of good affirmations. So so good to end the week
Speaker 1: on a strong note.
Speaker 2: That's good.
Speaker 1: But but yeah, so let us get all the lovely
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Speaker 1: special presentation down. So we are part of the ge
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Speaker 1: Last Kill special presentation. We'll do some quick high level
Speaker 1: thoughts at this point. Go ahead, David. As always high
Speaker 1: level thoughts.
Speaker 3: It did not feel like a one shot, self contained story.
Speaker 3: This felt like it should have been episode one of
Speaker 3: a series.
Speaker 2: It had some moments. It definitely had some moments.
Speaker 3: It had, you know, John Burnhal like encapsulating Frank Castle.
Speaker 2: But other than that, I.
Speaker 3: Feel like it for it supposedly being a one shot,
Speaker 3: a self contained thing, I think it really dropped the ball.
Speaker 3: If you are a fan going into this knowing that
Speaker 3: man Nucci was gonna be a character, and you're thinking
Speaker 3: of the Garth Innis, welcome back Frank run.
Speaker 2: This ain't it that?
Speaker 3: There were just there were a lot of missed opportunities.
Speaker 3: A lot of stuff left on the table. And you know,
Speaker 3: I will say, as someone who likes shows and episodes
Speaker 3: where people throw hands, you get plenty of that. But
Speaker 3: that's pretty much the meat and potatoes of all of
Speaker 3: this is very little story, very little anything to really
Speaker 3: pull you into Frank and him being who he is.
Speaker 3: It's just, you know, a little bit of story in
Speaker 3: one massive fight scene.
Speaker 1: Yeah, you know, as my best friend Truck would say,
Speaker 1: is this a Punisher special presentation? Yes it is, There's
Speaker 1: no doubt about it. Like you, you channel basically the
Speaker 1: basic ideas of what the Punisher is, the battles he
Speaker 1: has raging inside and mentally outside the world, what he's
Speaker 1: going through. And then, like you said, I honestly I
Speaker 1: was not when I got to when we got to
Speaker 1: the sequence when it started the huge fight, I was like, oh,
Speaker 1: I've got a prediction. I think what's been told to
Speaker 1: me is drue the last couple of months. The last
Speaker 1: half of it is legitimately and nothing but a NonStop
Speaker 1: action sequence, which again I mean, I know he said,
Speaker 1: I suppose, but that's not really giving too much away.
Speaker 1: We're not going to specifics with it. But like when
Speaker 1: I saw again the length when we've heard the official
Speaker 1: length of this, Oh yeah, this is there's not gonna
Speaker 1: be too much time to really delve into some stuff.
Speaker 1: And where the action sequences were great. Yes, it channeled
Speaker 1: the Punisher. It was really cool some of the kills.
Speaker 1: This is definitely the most bloodiest violent thing the MC
Speaker 1: has ever put out there and produced. But to your point,
Speaker 1: this seemed like there was more that could have been
Speaker 1: done to flesh outs some characters, like the New Cheese
Speaker 1: Ma Nucci. Though the whole thing was very quick and
Speaker 1: it almost seemed like, Okay, if you've never seen anything
Speaker 1: about the Punisher, this is a quick and dirty version
Speaker 1: to get you through it to understand it. But we're
Speaker 1: not even sure exactly like again the character, did he
Speaker 1: really change? Man? I don't. They tried to make it
Speaker 1: seem like it does. No, I don't think he has
Speaker 1: changed really at all. But I'll get into some of
Speaker 1: my you know, my hot quote unquote takes and again
Speaker 1: this this is a this is gonna be an interesting
Speaker 1: one because I did I had when I say, I
Speaker 1: had high expectations. I had expectations this to see a
Speaker 1: show again focused on John Burnhal's you know, characterization of
Speaker 1: the Punisher because I like it. I didn't know necessarily
Speaker 1: what was going to be happening with it. But then
Speaker 1: I started hearing things, people telling me. They weren't telling
Speaker 1: me spoilers, but they were kind of warning me, saying,
Speaker 1: don't get your helpes too high up for what this
Speaker 1: is gonna end up being, because they're they're not necessarily
Speaker 1: limits were placed on it. But it was more like,
Speaker 1: this is gonna be very much as I said, a
Speaker 1: cliff Notes version of the character, this would be maybe
Speaker 1: like you said, it's not necessarily one shot. I could
Speaker 1: see like a two issue mini series at that point.
Speaker 1: But again again not saying it's a bad special presentation.
Speaker 1: It just I kind of was hoping for just a
Speaker 1: little bit more depth to it and bringing something new
Speaker 1: to the character that has been put out on the screen.
Speaker 1: But they I think they took the safe route, good
Speaker 1: or bad, however you look at it. I think they
Speaker 1: stayed safe with this one.
Speaker 3: Yeah, again, there was a lot left on the table.
Speaker 1: Yeah, all right, so let us get over the spoiler wall,
Speaker 1: so we start with what else? We're gonna start with
Speaker 1: one of my favorite guitar heroes play songs all time,
Speaker 1: Mother by dancing. When I heard that, say, oh that
Speaker 1: took me back. I mean I knew a mother beforehand
Speaker 1: before it came to the man guitar hero that brought
Speaker 1: that to the major in audience. Man, I loved it,
Speaker 1: and at that point, man, this is this is appropriate,
Speaker 1: especially with where we're entering in Frank. So I guess
Speaker 1: we start with something else, but this seems like a
Speaker 1: pretty over the play selection of Frank Castle. This is
Speaker 1: followed by a shirtless, bearded Frank slow mo walking by
Speaker 1: his murder wall, where he literally puts together the clues.
Speaker 1: Not a wall where he murders people, but possibly he
Speaker 1: could have murdered people on the wall, wouldn't be sparts
Speaker 1: own possibility. That's followed by his bloody hands gripping a
Speaker 1: chin up bar while he does pull ups and screams. Now.
Speaker 1: I couldn't tell what necessarily was it just doing pull
Speaker 1: ups until he's bleeding? Does he have barbed wire on it?
Speaker 1: Is it just bad? I don't know. I could see
Speaker 1: like all the above with this.
Speaker 3: Yeah, it was cool to see frankness spot. He kind
Speaker 3: of looks like he did coming out of Season one
Speaker 3: of Daredevil.
Speaker 2: You know, he's got that beard.
Speaker 3: Look, he gets to about forty one of the pull ups,
Speaker 3: hands bleeding and he just drops.
Speaker 2: Down, can't take it anymore.
Speaker 3: But like he's in immaculate shape, and you can tell
Speaker 3: like he he is a man who has been on
Speaker 3: a mission.
Speaker 1: Yeah, he makes it to the forties and the music distorts.
Speaker 1: He drinks does pills, so he's not necessarily doing what
Speaker 1: you know, medical doctors prescribed, don't be drinking alcohol with
Speaker 1: pain pills. But this is Frank Castle. He's going to
Speaker 1: do what Frank Castle does. He's never met a metaphor
Speaker 1: he couldn't punch, and he punches the mirror and breaks
Speaker 1: his own reflection. That's very obvious symboli, isn't there. I'm
Speaker 1: not going to break that down for you. You know,
Speaker 1: his shatter itself more screaming up and now as Frank
Speaker 1: tears down the clippings on his wall starts, we cut
Speaker 1: to the titles that I'm not sure one last kill.
Speaker 1: Now we're over to a news report. However, it's not
Speaker 1: BB reporting in there's a lot of violence going into
Speaker 1: where this is taking place in little Sicily, New York.
Speaker 1: And follow the an unhoused man with a little dog,
Speaker 1: probably a Marine just because he's wearing a US Marine
Speaker 1: Corps cap, nothing else signaling that could just be wearing
Speaker 1: the cap, but you know, it would tie into kind
Speaker 1: of frank later on towards the end of Maybe Why
Speaker 1: Finding a Kinship with him, he's singing wand during the
Speaker 1: street And if you notice in the background, for those
Speaker 1: of you that are kind of playing though, who's had
Speaker 1: always appearing in the movie radio Man? Yes, Radio Man
Speaker 1: is in the background, blinking to miss him. He's back
Speaker 1: there under the bridge as as our Marine Corps guy
Speaker 1: with the dog comes out. Radio Man is always seems
Speaker 1: to be he was a former unhoused erst unhoused individual,
Speaker 1: but just always suddenly had was in caming on film
Speaker 1: sets things like that, and it's become kind of like,
Speaker 1: if you're filming in New York, radio Man's not too
Speaker 1: too far behind, and they seem to work him in
Speaker 1: in there.
Speaker 3: Yeah, he has been in not only a bunch of
Speaker 3: Marvel projects, but also like a bunch of movies and
Speaker 3: in general, so there's something going around on the streets
Speaker 3: in New York. He has got a cameo, a background
Speaker 3: feature something, and it's really cool that they, you know,
Speaker 3: more people have adopted this unhoused man and have put
Speaker 3: him in there and given him.
Speaker 2: This little shine. So it's that's a cool little Easter egg.
Speaker 1: Yeah, so he's wandering the streets. No more Cadillacs out here,
Speaker 1: how boy says, and explaining that Nucci gorillas are gone.
Speaker 1: When the when the viewers don't know what that means,
Speaker 1: comics fans do, It means the Nucci gang has left, Yes,
Speaker 1: And I mean we already knew they were going to
Speaker 1: be part of this, but you know, I was saying, Oh,
Speaker 1: I know, we've got we've gone over on this show.
Speaker 1: We did a whole thing on that that arc of Punisher,
Speaker 1: the violence have let violence got worse as some thugs
Speaker 1: come up to it. Basically, I kit the guy in
Speaker 1: the back of the head, try to knock him out,
Speaker 1: take his dog, Camo, and almost he almost gets hit
Speaker 1: by a truck. And then the guy, the guy who's
Speaker 1: grabbing the dog and you know, holding him not necessarily. Well,
Speaker 1: that guy's begging for his dog back, and he tosses
Speaker 1: the dog into the garbage truck and you the man
Speaker 1: just scream sobs, no more dog. We could already see
Speaker 1: this going, all right, We're trying to channel some of
Speaker 1: those John Wick vibes. Now, I would say in that moment,
Speaker 1: everyone who's ever watching us, they just want Frank Castle
Speaker 1: if anyone's gonna be biting it hard and should be
Speaker 1: tortured at that point, you know, that's that's what they're hoping.
Speaker 1: The audience is like, just end him. He needs to die.
Speaker 1: That person needs to die.
Speaker 2: Yeah.
Speaker 3: At that point, I was like, I I hope this
Speaker 3: is the first kill.
Speaker 1: Or one could be the last kill. That was easy.
Speaker 1: There's no time to worry about this though, because it's
Speaker 1: back to Frank, who is going nuts in his own
Speaker 1: empty room. You know, I realize it's my choice and
Speaker 1: my choice alone, to be a renaissance marine, he mutters
Speaker 1: as he sees visions of his old army. But he's
Speaker 1: Nick Nick Calamonados as Nick, and Colton Hill as Coulton,
Speaker 1: as well as Curtis Hoyle Jason Armer Moore, who folks
Speaker 1: should remember from the Punishing Netflix series. Now, there are
Speaker 1: sequences that we go back and forth with. He sees
Speaker 1: these visions and what it mounts be hallucinations of his
Speaker 1: former buddies. You know, I know the idea was, oh god,
Speaker 1: did they kill Curtis as he had ghos things like that. No,
Speaker 1: because if you notice, if you remember if watched the
Speaker 1: next flik show, Curtis was never one to kind of
Speaker 1: break Frank down and bust his butt for anything like that.
Speaker 1: This is Curtis, but this is Frank Castle's version of Curtis.
Speaker 1: This is Curtis speaking as Frank.
Speaker 2: Yeah.
Speaker 3: This these are images of his marine buddies that he
Speaker 3: has propagated in his mind, but it's not necessarily true
Speaker 3: to form of them. It is just them expressing Frank's
Speaker 3: thoughts to himself through the visions of these three.
Speaker 1: Frank cuts to his like this is what he got?
Speaker 1: Oh my god, he's like. He literally takes a nip
Speaker 1: and cuts his chest where the Marine Corps emblem is
Speaker 1: like both X three and he screams, and Curtis, or
Speaker 1: rather a dream Curtis as I'm gonna call him, tells
Speaker 1: Frank to talk to him, tells Frank to talk to him.
Speaker 1: I think I need some help, Frank says Hard. Agree, Frank,
Speaker 1: Hard agree, you're doing that. Yeah, you need to help
Speaker 1: A long time ago. However, I think you might make
Speaker 1: a therapist quit their job after they try to get
Speaker 1: an idea of going on, what's in your mind? Frank? Actually, yeah,
Speaker 1: Frank packs up, leaves the Marine Corps stuff behind, locks
Speaker 1: it up, and he's recognized by a neighbor with a
Speaker 1: young kid as he heads onto a busy neighborhood street
Speaker 1: wearing a hoodie trying not to be noticed.
Speaker 2: Yeah.
Speaker 3: He again, this is Frank and his psychological damage. I mean,
Speaker 3: the man is isn't admitted He's damaged by the things
Speaker 3: that he went through, not only in war but after war,
Speaker 3: his time as the Punisher.
Speaker 2: The man has been through some stuff. He is broken.
Speaker 1: Yeah, So we get a little more info as we
Speaker 1: headed to the diner run by Andre who has a
Speaker 1: granddaughter named Charlie. The TV going on, letting us know
Speaker 1: that Frank has killed the Neucci crime family, saying that
Speaker 1: they're one of the last gangs tied to the death
Speaker 1: of Frank Castle's family Major Gripe number one. Ladies and gentlemen,
Speaker 1: if you have seen the Netflix, though, you should all
Speaker 1: stomatically be maybe possibly he could look past it things
Speaker 1: like that. We are now entering the third retcon of
Speaker 1: the death of Frank Castle's family in the MCU three
Speaker 1: times three times. We have we have added to who
Speaker 1: has been responsible for his guest. First, we had the
Speaker 1: idea of it's his war buddies that we're trying to
Speaker 1: silence him from becoming a whistleblower for things that had happened.
Speaker 1: Then what was it? It was the FBI.
Speaker 2: Yeah, it was uh, it was.
Speaker 3: Gone wrong and you know it was all their fault.
Speaker 3: And now we we have number three. Somebody needs to
Speaker 3: call up a mam Vlani and tell her to sit
Speaker 3: in a chair and tell them what happens so that
Speaker 3: they can stay on track. I know these big studios
Speaker 3: normally pay somebody to make sure things stay within the
Speaker 3: established timeline.
Speaker 1: Spears is.
Speaker 2: MCU needs to.
Speaker 3: Just ay if y'are not putting out any more Miss
Speaker 3: Marvel stuff, then just get Mama Lani to sit right
Speaker 3: next to you and be like, yeah, now you can't
Speaker 3: do that because we already did that.
Speaker 1: Yeah. And outside the diner things are pretty nuts, and
Speaker 1: the nuts in the diner outside of the diner, But
Speaker 1: Frank can't be bothered, won't do anything because in his mind,
Speaker 1: that's why he's going nuts, because he thinks his mission's over.
Speaker 1: He's done everything, He's gotten rid of those who have
Speaker 1: been responded for her family. That's why he's kind of
Speaker 1: losing touch with reality because he doesn't see exactly what's
Speaker 1: the point anymore. He's even ignoring the madness. Like I said,
Speaker 1: on the streets, in the in the in the diner,
Speaker 1: they're coming to get us and a group of thugs
Speaker 1: beating up into some people. Is that in Frank's head?
Speaker 1: Is it actually happening or both? Like this was an
Speaker 1: interesting I think I when I wrote this down, it's
Speaker 1: just I started to think about it, saying, is this
Speaker 1: really happening or is this Frank like losing touch, Like
Speaker 1: this is the this is the chaos literally going on
Speaker 1: in the head and he's literally walking through it. That
Speaker 1: is a if that I don't know if they're that
Speaker 1: good to pull something like that out, because I don't
Speaker 1: think it is. I think it's literally what was going on,
Speaker 1: book man, what a mind screw up at that point.
Speaker 1: If they said, actually, this was all in Frank's mind,
Speaker 1: None of this happened. This was just him trying to
Speaker 1: work through his stuff to get to the point of
Speaker 1: getting back to being punisher. That's a very interesting and
Speaker 1: I think plausible idea. That's why I wanted to put
Speaker 1: it out there.
Speaker 3: Yeah, because some of the stuff that was like going
Speaker 3: on in the background just kind of seem like this
Speaker 3: would be an attention grabber to even someone like Frank,
Speaker 3: Like you would take a second look.
Speaker 1: Where's where's Kingpin? Where's the AVTF? Like this is something
Speaker 1: that I think that they like, what is happening? And
Speaker 1: it's always a big question, but something like this, like
Speaker 1: where Spider Man if it's New York, where Spider Man?
Speaker 1: Where's there? Like when we know this takes place, like
Speaker 1: after he gets he leaves that he escapes to sell
Speaker 1: that Kingpin's got him in, but like you wouldn't know
Speaker 1: that if you hadn't seen Daredevil, Like there's absolutely nothing
Speaker 1: to connect this to anything. You know, you don't have
Speaker 1: to connect to Netflix here because they've ret conned the
Speaker 1: whole bunch of stuff at that point. You know, Like
Speaker 1: they're not supposed to know who Curtis is. They just
Speaker 1: know it's a wartime buddy. Those of watching Joe, we
Speaker 1: know how important Curtis is. I don't think he's dead again.
Speaker 1: I just think this is part of his mind and
Speaker 1: people that he loves and cares about, but that he
Speaker 1: always seems to put a danger and as I label
Speaker 1: Frank ignoring everyone, I'm gonna call him the ignorer. So
Speaker 1: the soundtrack drives home what Frank is going through as
Speaker 1: he sounds the transition to helicopters and gunfire from the war,
Speaker 1: from his war days, and then we see where he's
Speaker 1: going the graves of his wife, Marie Elizabeth Castle and
Speaker 1: his children who were killed in the crossfire of a
Speaker 1: mob hit. I do have some questions about Frank walking
Speaker 1: from Little Sicily to Greenwood Cemetery, but I digress. The
Speaker 1: only reason I think that because that is that is
Speaker 1: a that is not as close by as they're making
Speaker 1: it seem, you know now at all. And and again
Speaker 1: he's going back sitting by the grave sites. And this
Speaker 1: is where we get through more hallucinations. At this point,
Speaker 1: Frank's giving up. He's confessed to wife, I told you
Speaker 1: I would never quit. I told you I would never
Speaker 1: give up on of you. But there's a problem. I'm
Speaker 1: affing tired.
Speaker 2: Yeah. This this, this is.
Speaker 3: The sensitive side of Frank, the the broken man that
Speaker 3: is finally coming out. Like he's letting all that emotion
Speaker 3: and everything out and he's like I'm over this.
Speaker 2: Shit, like I've been I've been doing this so much.
Speaker 2: I'm just I'm over it.
Speaker 1: So and I should have put this in quotes, and
Speaker 1: I wrote it shocking. I put this and put this
Speaker 1: outside in quotes that Frank puts a gun to his head,
Speaker 1: picturing his daughter asking him to upstairs and play with him.
Speaker 1: His daughter, interesting enough, is actually John Bernthal's daughter that's
Speaker 1: playing for this, you know, continuing a recent history of
Speaker 1: MCU actors bring their children into play parts. Then pictures
Speaker 1: his son hopping on into the pool and hilariously his
Speaker 1: wife e'scia. His daughter picks up that bonkers one batch
Speaker 1: two batch book who that Frank is obsessed with and
Speaker 1: punish your season one. Lastly, he pictures his wife, who
Speaker 1: can't connect with him. The vision turns wrong and his
Speaker 1: family turns away from him, blending and screaming, bleeding and
Speaker 1: screaming as he relives their death and perhaps knowing that
Speaker 1: killing himself will eliminate their memory from the world. His
Speaker 1: daughter goes, you okay, daddy, and you know, she waves
Speaker 1: at him. He tries to apologize, but she's gone, almost
Speaker 1: like she was never there, Frank, and he goes, no, no, no, no, no, no,
Speaker 1: no no, no, no, no, no no. John berthaal says
Speaker 1: a lot in every project and begs his daughter to
Speaker 1: come back. And you know it's you know this is
Speaker 1: you know this, you know it's back on the streets,
Speaker 1: back in Manhattan, and Ghost Curtis mocks Frank by having
Speaker 1: nothing left to do. So what's your purpose now? Marine?
Speaker 1: Again not totally clear, but with the new cheese gone,
Speaker 1: Frank has eliminated the last group that was another group
Speaker 1: that was responsible for his family fights over right. Hold
Speaker 1: that thought. I think as the trend goes, they're gonna
Speaker 1: find someone else that secretly was also the pulling the strings.
Speaker 1: The background, the shadowy figure in the back has a
Speaker 1: chatgy to bt work.
Speaker 2: It's it's always something new.
Speaker 1: Yeah. So he walks through some school buses, sees himself
Speaker 1: in uniform, looks at each other coming the other way.
Speaker 1: That's yeah.
Speaker 2: It reminded me of the meme of the two people crossing,
Speaker 2: just like having the slow look at each other.
Speaker 3: He's like, he's he's walking disheveled, and then he sees
Speaker 3: his full on punisher version of him walking past, and
Speaker 3: they just have the moment of lucking eyes. Yep.
Speaker 1: And so that's when he meets Ma Ma Nucci played
Speaker 1: by Judith light Man. Nucci explains that she needs his help.
Speaker 1: Her family was taken and she wants to tell him
Speaker 1: a small story, my entire family, Frank, same as you. Now.
Speaker 1: Here's the thing. As much as Frank does research on
Speaker 1: who is taking out things like that, he should know
Speaker 1: who this is, and so the story that she's telling
Speaker 1: she he should have. Man, shut up, I already know.
Speaker 1: What do you want? You know, how are you still alive?
Speaker 1: You know, it's like do you want to say I'm
Speaker 1: sorry or anything like that. You know, it shouldn't have
Speaker 1: gone to the park. But again because protagonist, because plot.
Speaker 1: You know, she talks about a hunger that you just
Speaker 1: can't that's all she's got left. She explains that her
Speaker 1: family went out. Her husband Benny died first, shot in
Speaker 1: the head by the pool while he hooks up with
Speaker 1: one of his floozies. Her oldest Bobby was next. She
Speaker 1: calls him a great policeman, though all we see is
Speaker 1: him eating.
Speaker 3: Eating him and someone who I presume was not his
Speaker 3: wife or anything else, because she seemed kind of young,
Speaker 3: and he is having some intimate time with her and yeah, doing.
Speaker 1: Things and his and his throat is slid from behind,
Speaker 1: bloods braying everywhere. And then Eddie when there's the Nucci restaurant,
Speaker 1: is and gunned down with all his guards. So again
Speaker 1: we all like, it's acting like we don't know who
Speaker 1: this is. They're hiding it. I don't know why they
Speaker 1: were hiding it. It was supposed to be a mystery.
Speaker 1: Maybe they were trying to make the audience who didn't
Speaker 1: think it was gonna be Frank saying, Oh, she's gonna
Speaker 1: try to hire him and take him out. At that point,
Speaker 1: it's like, no, no, no, this is Frank that it's
Speaker 1: one of those kind of like mister Rex, it's not
Speaker 1: that's not really done well in my opinion. And then
Speaker 1: there was my prince, my beautiful Carlo Manucci continues, and
Speaker 1: she didn't believe the rumors that he was he was
Speaker 1: doing bad things with children. I don't want us to
Speaker 1: get taken down, so I'm not gonna say the whole
Speaker 1: P word at that point. But that's that's how I
Speaker 1: took it. I don't know how else he could take it.
Speaker 1: Because he said I didn't believe those things with the children.
Speaker 1: Some people were saying, oh, he's talking about this. No
Speaker 1: he's not. He's talking about doing bad things with children.
Speaker 1: That's what he is.
Speaker 3: Yeah, and you know, if you know anything about the Punisher,
Speaker 3: I mean, if he finds out anybody, including a Crown boss,
Speaker 3: is you know, doing Prince Andrew things with kids, then
Speaker 3: he's going to do what he's got to do. He
Speaker 3: did the same thing in his own series when he
Speaker 3: was in the pawn shop and he was walking out
Speaker 3: and the guy offered him some of those DVDs from
Speaker 3: the back, and he was like, you know what, I
Speaker 3: was about to walk out of here, but now lock
Speaker 3: the dough.
Speaker 2: I got to take you out too. Like that. That's
Speaker 2: been his mo o.
Speaker 1: So yeah, uh so you know, Monuc says that you
Speaker 1: are like a hungry advert very average ever said I
Speaker 1: write this and I can't even pronounce it. Avers animal
Speaker 1: and standing up as we get the shocking reveal that
Speaker 1: the Punisher killed them all, bless my heart, you took
Speaker 1: everything I had, and uh, Eddie says, I love you,
Speaker 1: ma as Frank crushes his skull with his foot. They
Speaker 1: don't show it, they don't show the whole grody details.
Speaker 1: But as Brent and I would constantly say, when the
Speaker 1: you know, Defender for coming back on Disney Plus things
Speaker 1: like that. We were waiting for that whole thing where
Speaker 1: walking down the bloody hallway saying Hi, I'm Frank Castle
Speaker 1: aka the Punisher. You're watching Disney Plus. You know that's
Speaker 1: what should be added into on top of Kingpin slamming
Speaker 1: some decapitating him in a door.
Speaker 3: Yeah, he went full American history X on this young
Speaker 3: man and just right there in front of his mom.
Speaker 3: And you know, now I can't I couldn't fully tell
Speaker 3: in this moment, it looked like Mannucci still had all
Speaker 3: of her limbs about her when she was in the car.
Speaker 3: She was crawling over, she was yelling things like that.
Speaker 3: Because now when we see her now she is in
Speaker 3: a wheelchair. Her legs don't work, one of her arms
Speaker 3: don't work. You know. It kind of harkens back to
Speaker 3: again the garth Ennis run where she gets mauled by
Speaker 3: a polar bear and loses all her limbs, so and
Speaker 3: she ends up in a wheelchair into that. In this version,
Speaker 3: she she's in a wheelchair for other reasons. But I
Speaker 3: can't tell from this shot if she was wheelchair bound
Speaker 3: beforehand and could just crawl through the car or if
Speaker 3: something happened afterwards, because she mentions Frank forgetting about her.
Speaker 2: But then I'm wondering, like what happens to her?
Speaker 3: Because, like you said earlier, I would think if Frank
Speaker 3: did all this research on the Nucci crime family, he
Speaker 3: knows she's part of it.
Speaker 1: Yeah, so well, you know, before we can tone out
Speaker 1: with the last half it, we're gonna take her first
Speaker 1: ad break of the evenings listeners. These ads help keep
Speaker 1: the lights on the Geegle Tipan Alliance network. We don't
Speaker 1: get cheos with ads. Come on, they could be a
Speaker 1: bit loud to give it a three count before they
Speaker 1: come on, three two one, We'll be right back, and
Speaker 1: we are back. So Ma Nucci tells him that she
Speaker 1: has put a bounty and a hit on him, and
Speaker 1: at six forty seven pm, the same time that Frank
Speaker 1: killed Eddie, she's sending every thug in the neighborhood into
Speaker 1: the building to find him and kill him and everything
Speaker 1: in their way. And she goes, I'm the one who's
Speaker 1: punishing you. Now, no roll credits, and that's that's that's
Speaker 1: like a David Caruso CSI Miami opening thing. I'm the
Speaker 1: one who's doing the punishing.
Speaker 3: Now, so funny funny enough is Judith light Is from
Speaker 3: Who's the Boss? For some people of an older age,
Speaker 3: and and so in our group chat, it was said
Speaker 3: when she gave that line about who's the one doing
Speaker 3: the punishing now, it was well, I guess she's the
Speaker 3: new boss.
Speaker 2: Not Tony Danza.
Speaker 1: Yeah, not Tony Danza. God, I love that show when
Speaker 1: I was a kid. Who's the Boss?
Speaker 2: Great?
Speaker 1: One of the best openings of a of a sitcom. Absolutely,
Speaker 1: I like. I like the later versions of it more
Speaker 1: than the earlier versions.
Speaker 2: Yeah, agreed, I love that show.
Speaker 1: Uh So she rolls away, flicking him off. So, because
Speaker 1: you know why not legally awaiting would watch Frank Die
Speaker 1: do his best impersonating of being of the raid that's
Speaker 1: about to happen. So that's when upstairs, Frank, next to
Speaker 1: his next ghost of Christmas past, shows up, Karen Page.
Speaker 1: Who would have thought? Who would have thought Karen wouldn't
Speaker 1: be one of these people that would show up. She
Speaker 1: lays out that Frank Castle the family man, was just
Speaker 1: a masked and she should know something about mass and
Speaker 1: he goes, Karen, are you here? He asks? Are you
Speaker 1: with me? And Karen says she's there and that there's
Speaker 1: something more for you to do, though of course she's
Speaker 1: really not there. It's all in his head. That said,
Speaker 1: she almost kisses him, which probably would send the Karen
Speaker 1: Fisk Karen Frank shippers going nuts, saying, oh, you almost
Speaker 1: gave it to us, Why do you keep so close?
Speaker 1: Regardless after that, after he comes to the raid, the
Speaker 1: hit begins as Frank hears Doug's going nuts in the hallway,
Speaker 1: breaking in the apartments across the street. Across the hall
Speaker 1: say he splash gasoline on Frank's door and with a
Speaker 1: little boy across the room, screaming, the gas his lip
Speaker 1: and you know, igniting basically Frank's legs instead of instead
Speaker 1: he screams, and Levie and Roast by Louis Armstrong plays
Speaker 1: and it begins for real, like he gets punish her,
Speaker 1: punish your strength at this point, and Aaron goes as
Speaker 1: she's she's kind of half paying attention as I'm watching
Speaker 1: this downstairs, and she's like, how did he get the
Speaker 1: flames off? And he's just like kind of moving. At
Speaker 1: that point, I was like, it's to punish your honey.
Speaker 1: He's he doesn't have superhuman and vulnerability or anything like that.
Speaker 1: He's just he's just a impassioned true believer of the
Speaker 1: sense of I'm if someone standing in my way, I'm
Speaker 1: bringing a sledgehammer and a nuclear weapon and knock it down.
Speaker 2: Yeah.
Speaker 3: When when Frank is man, Frank is one just massive
Speaker 3: tank of a man. And I mean they even show
Speaker 3: for the first you know, thirty seconds or so of
Speaker 3: the fight, like he is still slowly on fire, like
Speaker 3: it's going out as he's moving around. But he goes
Speaker 3: through that door and he takes out the first goon.
Speaker 3: His legs are still on fire. He goes after the
Speaker 3: other one, it's still like at the bottom of his feet,
Speaker 3: so the fire slowly dissipating. But yeah, he just and
Speaker 3: you know, interesting enough, like we saw in our chat,
Speaker 3: he really John Burnhal really got set on fire for
Speaker 3: this scene. He wanted to live it out and you know,
Speaker 3: I guess it gave that yell a little bit more
Speaker 3: realism for him to be set on fire.
Speaker 1: Yeah, it's and this is where basically the rest of
Speaker 1: the episode is. The rest of the episode is a
Speaker 1: I wouldn't call it like it's trying to do one
Speaker 1: shot to different points, but it's basically trying to do
Speaker 1: a massive one shot action sequence for the rest of
Speaker 1: the time. You call it what it is, the raid,
Speaker 1: John Wick anything, it's You're not wrong. So we're gonna
Speaker 1: kind of quickly go through this because it's kind of
Speaker 1: fun breaking down the kills and things like that. Because
Speaker 1: it's punisher heading outside, he sees the scale of what's happening.
Speaker 1: The entire apartment of Conflict is under attack, and now
Speaker 1: he's going on offense, grabbing, grabbing guns. Frank blasts his
Speaker 1: way through the balconies, throwing man over the railing, shooting
Speaker 1: across the way as well as pinpoint with pinpoint precision.
Speaker 1: Any hesitation Frank had at the start of the episode
Speaker 1: is gone the wake of innocence being attacked. It's fun.
Speaker 1: It's funnily enough that more of a vigilante than Frank
Speaker 1: usually is. Mostly he's a methodical serial killer who just
Speaker 1: happened to be lumped in with vigilantes.
Speaker 3: Yeah, I will say this one thing that I did
Speaker 3: like about, you know, Frank's fighting, you know, going crazy
Speaker 3: and picking up the guns, and this did give me
Speaker 3: on Wick feels. And it did that because I felt
Speaker 3: the realism as he was battling and picking up the
Speaker 3: guns like this wasn't I have unlimited m This was
Speaker 3: like legitimately, I take a couple of shots on Mount
Speaker 3: I gotta search for the next weapon, search for the
Speaker 3: next gun. Not every gun is full Amo, So he
Speaker 3: will pick up a pistol and he may only get
Speaker 3: three shots before it's done. Then he's got to move
Speaker 3: on to the next Like it gave that realism of
Speaker 3: I'm just picking up and using whatever.
Speaker 1: Yeah. So Frank continues to fight his way through the building,
Speaker 1: making his way to roof Don't Worry, killing lots of
Speaker 1: other bad guys and on his way up his respite.
Speaker 1: His brief though as more guys and now it fits
Speaker 1: leftover from the Purge pop up as Frank fights them
Speaker 1: one by one, u punishing then if you, if you will,
Speaker 1: One gets the better of him, tossing him onto an
Speaker 1: air conditioning unit, though Frank kills the man as he
Speaker 1: falls and gives him the site line to the main villain,
Speaker 1: Mom Gucci, who's blow watching the whole thing, And I
Speaker 1: don't care what the producers are saying a Hollywood reporter
Speaker 1: or anything. That was one of the most atrocious, atrocious
Speaker 1: shots like that is I wouldn't say it's as bad
Speaker 1: as the rag Dolph scene of Catwoman, a movie of
Speaker 1: which I've never seen, but I've seen enough of the
Speaker 1: memes and things like that to know what I'm talking about.
Speaker 1: They say, oh, well, it was Frank doing this, and
Speaker 1: then we it's super imposed something his face on this,
Speaker 1: things like that. I don't know what they did in
Speaker 1: the editing bay at that point. I'm not criticizing the
Speaker 1: VFX side of things like that, but whatever was done,
Speaker 1: I do not know how when they watched this through
Speaker 1: round up to round and stuff and no one said, guys,
Speaker 1: that looks bad. You know it?
Speaker 3: It is like, and as someone who works in education,
Speaker 3: will you will fully understand this. It is like when
Speaker 3: a kid already has all a's and then gets to
Speaker 3: the final project and they just turn it see effort,
Speaker 3: because they're like, eh, I'm good anyway.
Speaker 2: That's what that VFX was.
Speaker 3: You had this amazing fight scene in and they're like,
Speaker 3: you know, what is good enough? I'm just turning it
Speaker 3: in like it is. I know it's not finished, but
Speaker 3: it's good enough.
Speaker 1: It's good enough, good enough for government work. Frank falls
Speaker 1: through various pieces of wood on on the side of
Speaker 1: the building, past school buses approaches to men, beating them
Speaker 1: down easily. The streets are wild, probably for real now,
Speaker 1: and Frank sees Andre fighting back against the people as
Speaker 1: Charlie's in trouble. Meanwhile, Magucci is being spirited away, so
Speaker 1: Frank has choice save the girl or kill Margucci's man. Nucci,
Speaker 1: excuse me, And it was almost like there's not even
Speaker 1: anyone going after her getting wheeled into the limousine, you know.
Speaker 3: Yeah, like all this craziness is going on, my nude.
Speaker 3: She's just sitting out there like it is, is what
Speaker 3: it is. Frank hears the you know that helped me
Speaker 3: and recognizes it being you know, Andre's daughter and everything
Speaker 3: going on with that, and he has his little his
Speaker 3: crisis moment of do I keep with my mission or
Speaker 3: do I go save these people? And you know, Frank,
Speaker 3: I'd be Frank, small little baby girl in trouble.
Speaker 2: He's going to do what you gotta do.
Speaker 1: Yeah, And so heart breaths, I will be heard is
Speaker 1: As Frank makes the only choice he can save Andre
Speaker 1: and save Charlie. He enters the diner, opening fire with
Speaker 1: only one man left. He takes down with a with
Speaker 1: a cam. He smashes another with a coffee pot and
Speaker 1: slashes the back of the man's throat with a knife,
Speaker 1: which I guess in his neck. Leave me alone, I
Speaker 1: don't know. I also don't know how bodies were. Sorry.
Speaker 3: Yes, So he took the guy down and as he
Speaker 3: takes him down and he slams his head, he turns
Speaker 3: him sideways and then pulls up with the knife to
Speaker 3: slit his throat and he just he kind of bleeds
Speaker 3: out from there. But right after that comes, in my opinion,
Speaker 3: the my my favorite kill of the episode.
Speaker 1: Yeah, it was. It was intense. So it's not done yet.
Speaker 1: An enormous tattooed man enters and starts choking Frank. Big mistake, huge, Uh,
Speaker 1: the man had a body for Frank to stab with
Speaker 1: with these a lot of these folks seem to be
Speaker 1: making the same mistake having a body. As I say, so,
Speaker 1: Frank stabs him everywhere over and over again. It's everything
Speaker 1: like he's just it's with a pin with a pin
Speaker 1: going to definition of death by a thousand cuts, even
Speaker 1: though not a thousand, but you know, it was just
Speaker 1: like what I know, it's desperation or Okay, this is
Speaker 1: all I have to do in order to take this
Speaker 1: guy down, just literally put as much holes into him
Speaker 1: so he bleeds out.
Speaker 3: Yeah that it was like he started and he was
Speaker 3: surgical with that. When he's going through like he's doing
Speaker 3: the karate and everything else, then he goes like right
Speaker 3: into the bicyles.
Speaker 2: He's hitting arteries with this pin.
Speaker 3: He knows exactly what he's doing as he is stabbing
Speaker 3: this man out, and I'm just like, man, franktt is
Speaker 3: one dude that you do not want.
Speaker 2: To mess with.
Speaker 1: Nope, not at all. So over for real. Now Frank
Speaker 1: seees that he saved Charlie andres stumbles in holding his
Speaker 1: daughter with his roofs while his wife is sobbing Charlie
Speaker 1: and gives Frank a flower that she painted and cut
Speaker 1: out and smiles. Now his family get Now he's finally
Speaker 1: got redemption for his family dying and can kill again
Speaker 1: with a clear conscience. I guess no, he can't get
Speaker 1: his does and killed male Nucci. He just leaves no
Speaker 1: other thing like she's just gone, and I will be
Speaker 1: very surprised if we ever see Manucci ever again again.
Speaker 3: That's why I feel like this this felt more like
Speaker 3: an episode one and not a one shot.
Speaker 2: Yeah.
Speaker 1: So so Frank wanders into the streets pondering what has happened?
Speaker 1: Is the absolve So rather than go after Manucci, which
Speaker 1: he you know again, we had way to play with
Speaker 1: your food, Frank, Frank walks over to Brooklyn again and
Speaker 1: visits his family's graves again and thinks they were with
Speaker 1: him today and he sees the key on the ground
Speaker 1: they left on the ground and still still there and
Speaker 1: not stolen by some grave robbers. Yeah, baby, I'm gonna
Speaker 1: get going, Frank says, one batch, two batch, Penny and dime.
Speaker 1: Papa bears a baker, and so am I one batch,
Speaker 1: two batch, Penny and a dime. I love you, baby
Speaker 1: girl to the end of time. He cannot get through
Speaker 1: a punish or anything without that freaking thing coming back.
Speaker 2: You gotta have the one batch too, Batches.
Speaker 3: It is ingrained, you know, ever since he sat on
Speaker 3: that roof and Matt was like, what is that, and
Speaker 3: He's like, it's nursery rhyme. You know, my baby girl.
Speaker 3: You used to always have me read it to her.
Speaker 3: Now we just we have to have it multiple times.
Speaker 1: So then it's over to a couple. Ali and Charles
Speaker 1: on the street. They're about to be axe chopped by
Speaker 1: a man who killed Camo at the beginning of the episode,
Speaker 1: and Frank has now cleaned up his beard, his hair,
Speaker 1: and once again wearing his Punish your flak jacket. The
Speaker 1: unhoused man gives Frank uh the hat that he stole back.
Speaker 1: A man says that's not the only thing he stole
Speaker 1: from me. Frank knocks the man over and then shoots
Speaker 1: him directly in the camera. The Punisher is back.
Speaker 3: Yeah, he's got a new sleeker tactical outfit on, you know,
Speaker 3: the the vest in the bulletproof aspect of it looks
Speaker 3: freshly painted, the hair high and tight, like he's he's
Speaker 3: ready to do this. And you know, we have the
Speaker 3: guy earlier who killed the dog and he's on the
Speaker 3: streets and Punishers got him himned up, and you know,
Speaker 3: the unhoused man is like, yeah, you know what he
Speaker 3: took more than my Hat's like, oh, all right.
Speaker 1: Well they say that I trust me, bro, trust me.
Speaker 1: So here are my final thoughts on this Punisher special presentation.
Speaker 1: This is a curious place to end. You know, he
Speaker 1: hasn't taken care of Manucci. They haven't gone to the Zoo,
Speaker 1: which is the major part of the Mannucci storyline in
Speaker 1: the comics by Garth Ennis and Steve Dylan. So why
Speaker 1: not kill her? And the short answer is because then
Speaker 1: the Punisher's fight would be done, leaving some thing out there.
Speaker 1: Leaving something out there for him to kill makes means
Speaker 1: the quot unquote fun adventures can keep going forever? But
Speaker 1: will they? It's curious that when there's no way to
Speaker 1: address what happened to Frank after it of a born
Speaker 1: against season one, or where where was he during season two?
Speaker 1: I guess going nuts more. It's a character portrayal of
Speaker 1: the Punisher, going from I think I want to die too,
Speaker 1: I think I want to kill. That's called growth. But
Speaker 1: it does leave several lingering questions about this continuity. You know, yes,
Speaker 1: So all in all, what would you give the special presentation?
Speaker 2: After my second viewing?
Speaker 3: Honestly, my second viewing got had a better feeling because
Speaker 3: I didn't go in with such high expectations. So my
Speaker 3: second viewing, I would sit it at probably about a
Speaker 3: seven point five out of ten.
Speaker 1: Yeah, I'm gonna go a little lower. As again, my
Speaker 1: best friend Chuck would say, is this the Punisher Special? Presentation,
Speaker 1: Yes it is. Did I enjoy the action sequence? Absolutely?
Speaker 1: I enjoyed the action sequence a van I'm a Punisher
Speaker 1: fan anytime I get to vote on like most wanted
Speaker 1: omnibus reprints. At that point and it hasn't come back,
Speaker 1: I need. I've only got three right now. I've got
Speaker 1: The Punisher by Garth Ennis volume one, I've got Punisher
Speaker 1: Max by Jason Aaron, and I've got The Punisher by
Speaker 1: Rick Reminder. At that point I need, and it's volume two,
Speaker 1: I need a few others. At that point, I'll even
Speaker 1: get the old school ones where he got his own
Speaker 1: Caesar proper. I'm a big fan of the Pusher, not
Speaker 1: because I agree with what the Punisher does. I understand
Speaker 1: and get exactly the difference of the character. But the
Speaker 1: Punisher is more than just an action sequence. I mean, yes,
Speaker 1: they hint it towards the idea of his mental instability
Speaker 1: and what he has to constantly deal with, which is
Speaker 1: why I adore the Ennis run. I think that they
Speaker 1: nail that character so well and bring it to the
Speaker 1: forefront of what is going on with so many different
Speaker 1: issues that are very relevant to today. But as bears
Speaker 1: Layer says in there I wish this was a miniseries.
Speaker 1: Didn't have to be a complete season, but some expansion
Speaker 1: on the story would have been great. And yeah, that's
Speaker 1: my biggest thing, Like this feels like a part one
Speaker 1: of likes you said it could have been three episodes
Speaker 1: of doing it, but like, yeah, Monugi's out there, whether
Speaker 1: he goes after or not, whatever. I didn't need that
Speaker 1: particular arc to be fully like put the page to screen.
Speaker 1: I was just it felt like we dealt with the
Speaker 1: mental health stuff and then we dealt with the action
Speaker 1: and then he's back. Like this has been the same
Speaker 1: story for Frank Castle since Daredevil's into on Netflix. Seems
Speaker 1: one and two of Punisher and to some extent Born
Speaker 1: Again season one, Like we're having this thing where Frank's retired,
Speaker 1: Frank can't do it anymore, and he's trying to find
Speaker 1: a life and then something brings him back. At this point,
Speaker 1: instead we get like, Okay, Franks thinks he's done with
Speaker 1: everything and he's losing touch with reality because he doesn't
Speaker 1: have a purpose anymore. Well, turns out he didn't kill everyone,
Speaker 1: and then everyone after him and saying okay, I go
Speaker 1: and be Punisher again. This is now for uh, this
Speaker 1: is now three ish times that we have gone through
Speaker 1: this again and again and again and again. You know
Speaker 1: it's we can't do this. We have to start moving
Speaker 1: on with this character and do something different. If I'm
Speaker 1: hoping in Spider Man brandit day, I don't need a
Speaker 1: total reinvention of the character. I just want to see something,
Speaker 1: something more that like I got from The Punisher seasons
Speaker 1: one and two. We can't just key. I don't want
Speaker 1: to hear Frank Kamp's questioning himself whether he's doing the
Speaker 1: right thing. This is who he is now. We need
Speaker 1: to stick with this and go forward. All in all,
Speaker 1: did I enjoy this? Yes? I thought it was okay.
Speaker 1: I had a good time with things. I just felt
Speaker 1: it was rushed. I felt it was there could have
Speaker 1: been more doing this. As we've all said, I'm keeping
Speaker 1: this at a seven, flirting with under seven if this went,
Speaker 1: but I'll keep out as a solid seven. Do I
Speaker 1: recommend watching it? Yes, you're gonna have a good time.
Speaker 1: If you're a Punisher Van, You're gonna have a good time.
Speaker 1: But this is not something that I will sooner put
Speaker 1: on the Netflix shows than this special presentation. Just being
Speaker 1: completely honest, agreed.
Speaker 3: I'm I'm waiting for the Punisher to get kind of
Speaker 3: that feel that we got from Punisher in the comic
Speaker 3: book version of Civil War, where.
Speaker 2: He knew who he was, he knew he.
Speaker 3: Was not the guy to be looked at up to
Speaker 3: not that is like, you know, go celebrate Captain America
Speaker 3: like this is me. I'm the down and dirty dude,
Speaker 3: Like I'm not here to be your poster boy. I'm
Speaker 3: here to get you done. Like I want them to
Speaker 3: transition to that version of Frank uh sooner rather than later,
Speaker 3: because I think between Daredevil's season two, between the two
Speaker 3: seasons of Punishers Netflix now on this we've come full
Speaker 3: circle on Frank adopting the this is who I am now?
Speaker 1: Yeah so so yeah. So that is our breakdown of
Speaker 1: the Punisher one last kill. We will see him next
Speaker 1: again in spider Man Brand New Day, so we'll see
Speaker 1: what's next in store for them. So we're gonna take
Speaker 1: our final ad break for the evening. Listeners use ads
Speaker 1: help keep the lights on a gigle to mid Aliance Network.
Speaker 1: We don't get to choose what ads common and they
Speaker 1: could be a bit loud. Just give you that three
Speaker 1: count before they could free one. We'll get back and
Speaker 1: we are back, all right, So no news this week,
Speaker 1: nothing really huge. We got a small little news item,
Speaker 1: but in post credits at that point. So if you're saying, oh,
Speaker 1: there was something, I said, yes, but it'd be a
Speaker 1: quick mention and it's newsworthy, but not to the extent
Speaker 1: to put it outside of post credits. So hold on
Speaker 1: to that. So we are going to go straight into
Speaker 1: listener feedback. We got one person, long time, longtime listener,
Speaker 1: sometime host and occasional creeper into the show notes at
Speaker 1: that point, since he still has access to it, has
Speaker 1: sent us questions.
Speaker 3: Yes, so Brent decided that he was gonna pop into
Speaker 3: the show notes while we were all busy, you know,
Speaker 3: working and living in our lives.
Speaker 2: And so so Brent has dropped in a couple of
Speaker 2: bullet points here.
Speaker 3: So I'm gonna start off with his first one, which is,
Speaker 3: why do podcasters who absolutely know better about Sony not
Speaker 3: allowing Tom holland slash Spider Man on Disney Plus continued
Speaker 3: to whine about him ignoring the events of Punisher or Daredevil,
Speaker 3: but ignoring all of the other heroes that could show up.
Speaker 3: Iron Fist, Hawkey, Captain America, any of the Thunderbolts, swords
Speaker 3: Men and that is left and so on.
Speaker 1: Go for it, Go take it on.
Speaker 3: Yeah, this part of it to me feels like, you know,
Speaker 3: they just want that argument. It's a fun, easy argument,
Speaker 3: you know, when you're yelling about the Spider Man thing.
Speaker 3: Because anybody who's like in this, and especially the high
Speaker 3: level podcasters, they definitely know if we know, they know,
Speaker 3: like Tom holland Disney the agreement between Disney and Sony
Speaker 3: and what is allowed versus what's not allowed, like Sony
Speaker 3: Steel controls Spider Man, like that, they get to say
Speaker 3: when he shows up, how he shows up, how he
Speaker 3: gets to be used. There's a reason why, you know,
Speaker 3: those movies spend some time on other platforms before they
Speaker 3: go to Disney Plus and things like that. You know,
Speaker 3: Sony's gonna gonna maximize their dollar's worth, so we know
Speaker 3: what it is. I think for some of these podcasters
Speaker 3: it's just fun click baity arguments to include the where
Speaker 3: is Spider Man versus where's Iron Fizhawk Eye, Captain America,
Speaker 3: so forth, and so on. When I and also, you know,
Speaker 3: for a lot of the general audience Spider Man is
Speaker 3: such a household name that. Again, if you are trying
Speaker 3: to just get those clicks and get those those moments
Speaker 3: that are captured and then put on TikTok for people
Speaker 3: to share and discuss with, you're going to bring up
Speaker 3: a Spider Man faster than you're going to bring up
Speaker 3: the Swordsman.
Speaker 1: Yeah, and again echoing kind of what David is saying.
Speaker 1: They're trying to get the things that I mean, we yes,
Speaker 1: we want Daredevil Spider Man to be in a project
Speaker 1: that we wanted it, and so just to even put
Speaker 1: it out there's getting them clicks in and think like
Speaker 1: maybe some I hate to say, don't know any different
Speaker 1: and arn'tes dialed them. They're just therefore the the as
Speaker 1: the kids say, the Ora farming as it were. But
Speaker 1: it's I just roll my eyes, especially when they say it.
Speaker 1: Even I just do it just to troll. Some people say, oh,
Speaker 1: you're in the jail, that means he's gonna break brink A.
Speaker 1: We're gonna see Daredevil break out of cell and join
Speaker 1: him in the hope that that's thing under there. It's
Speaker 1: gonna be Daredevil coming in Daredevil. I hate to break
Speaker 1: it to you guys not not coming into brand new day.
Speaker 1: It's not not happening, and nor will you ever see
Speaker 1: Spider Man in uh a show like this because Sony's
Speaker 1: not allowing it. Yeah no, so so just we can
Speaker 1: keep hoping one day it may happen. It is not
Speaker 1: gonna be this year.
Speaker 3: Yeah no, okay, so next one from Brent one last
Speaker 3: kill felt like a one shot on the side of
Speaker 3: a main story. It's in the cannon, but could fit
Speaker 3: in multiple places on the timeline. On the official Marvel
Speaker 3: podcast The Bad One, a producer said it was I
Speaker 3: stopped after like episode four when I realized, Okay, this
Speaker 3: is nothing but fluff.
Speaker 2: Yah, I gave that up.
Speaker 3: But a producer said that it was a few months
Speaker 3: after Daredevil Born Again.
Speaker 2: Does it really matter? Though?
Speaker 3: I think this could have been nice to have something
Speaker 3: in the show on stream that places it, but ultimately
Speaker 3: not too big of a deal.
Speaker 2: You know, it's it's placement.
Speaker 3: Does not really affect the story unless they there's going
Speaker 3: to be fallout from here, if they are going to
Speaker 3: maybe do another special or you know, bring Punisher back,
Speaker 3: then yes, it's placement, you know, fall somewhere, But as
Speaker 3: it stands right now, it could be anywhere on the
Speaker 3: new MCU timeline, anywhere, you know, post the Netflix shows,
Speaker 3: and it doesn't matter because it does stand alone.
Speaker 1: Yeah, it's I think it matters, like you said, just
Speaker 1: to always kind of have this place neatly to see
Speaker 1: if you want to do an immense chronological order things.
Speaker 1: I get that, But this, this it has if you
Speaker 1: didn't know dar To were Born Again season one happened,
Speaker 1: or the Netflix shows like this is this is what
Speaker 1: it is. Yeah, it's it matters to people like us
Speaker 1: just because we want to know, But in the end
Speaker 1: it really doesn't matter too much. Yep.
Speaker 2: And finally, do you think there is hope.
Speaker 3: For a proper ironfict costume for Danny nown that Marvel
Speaker 3: Studios is behind the shows to that, I will say,
Speaker 3: if you want anything close to a proper iron Fish costume,
Speaker 3: you need to go rewatch the Netflix in the episode
Speaker 3: where he is fighting in Kunlum, because that is about
Speaker 3: the closest that you're getting. I don't think this as
Speaker 3: your version of it is gonna go as it's kind
Speaker 3: of hard to use Danny's costume because it is more
Speaker 3: of a leotard than some of the others in this,
Speaker 3: So the the mask, the open extreme v neck down
Speaker 3: to the navel ads, that's gonna be kind of hard
Speaker 3: to bowl off.
Speaker 1: Yeah, I could see we're getting some homages to it,
Speaker 1: but I know if we're gonna get the full one,
Speaker 1: it'd be but it's it's I don't feel it yet, but.
Speaker 3: I think you'll get something that may be close to
Speaker 3: again when in the Iron Fish Show when they showed
Speaker 3: him and he is in the gee with the mask on.
Speaker 3: You might get something very similar to that. But I
Speaker 3: don't think you're getting the full green costume and the
Speaker 3: yellow head band and everything else. I just don't see
Speaker 3: that being a thing in this version.
Speaker 1: Yeah. So all right, well we appreciate you, Brent for
Speaker 1: putting that out there at that point. And uh, let's
Speaker 1: get into factor of fiction. So from last week, all right,
Speaker 1: Number one, Bullseye will return in season three off There
Speaker 1: to Devil Born Again in an episode focused on what
Speaker 1: he is he's doing for mister Charles one hundred percent
Speaker 1: said yes, then we get Electra will be reintroduced in
Speaker 1: season three off There Devil Born Again fifty to fifty split,
Speaker 1: and then Daredevil will done a new version of a
Speaker 1: suit fully embracing the d D logo in season three.
Speaker 1: A There, Devil Born Again sixty seven percent in fact,
Speaker 1: thirty three percent in fiction. All right, what you got
Speaker 1: this week?
Speaker 3: All right?
Speaker 1: Uh?
Speaker 3: Fact fiction number one Foggy Nelson will return and Daredevil
Speaker 3: Born Again season three.
Speaker 1: Yeah, we can't help that not having flashbacks.
Speaker 2: So yeah, sure, yeah, I think that you know that
Speaker 2: they want to have him in there. He is a huge.
Speaker 3: Compass and a huge like touching point from Matt. So
Speaker 3: you know, I would like them to do the whole
Speaker 3: Foggy faked his death thing, just because.
Speaker 2: I know it would piss a.
Speaker 3: Whole lot of people off to try and go back
Speaker 3: and say, but this happened and that happened. But I
Speaker 3: do at least think that we're gonna get more flashbacks
Speaker 3: that kind of again establish him as Matt's you know,
Speaker 3: heartbeat and keeping him grinded. Yeah, because Karen ain't keeping
Speaker 3: him grinded. No more Karen off the deep end.
Speaker 2: Yeah.
Speaker 3: The second one of fact factor of fiction number two
Speaker 3: is we will see man Nucci again.
Speaker 2: This story feels so open ended.
Speaker 1: I'd say, if we're going to get another punisher focused stuff, yes,
Speaker 1: but I don't know. I don't know how and when
Speaker 1: that's happening. I think, I you know, the interesting thing
Speaker 1: is it's it's very much you know, uh, I think
Speaker 1: we could. I think they left it open in order
Speaker 1: to continue that because the rose gallery of the Punisher
Speaker 1: is not vast in a sense of known villains. So
Speaker 1: I'll say yes, I just don't know when we're getting it.
Speaker 2: Yeah.
Speaker 3: Like I said, I feel like they left it so
Speaker 3: open that there is a chance that we could have
Speaker 3: some way that that that peers, and that actually kind
Speaker 3: of rolls into my factor fiction number three, which is
Speaker 3: Punisher will have a cameo in season three of Daredevil
Speaker 3: Born Again.
Speaker 1: They're halfway done filming, over halfway their scheduled to be
Speaker 1: done with filming in a month and a half with
Speaker 1: principal photography. I haven't heard anything yet. I haven't seen
Speaker 1: anything yet. I think that would be something seen, especially
Speaker 1: with how we got, you know, the ending of season
Speaker 1: one already out there. Could they do it? Yes? Will
Speaker 1: they do it? Burn falls into play right now. It
Speaker 1: would be an easy thing for him to do, being
Speaker 1: already in New York. But I think that I don't
Speaker 1: see him coming back for a season three. I think
Speaker 1: this is going to be a Defenders focused at this
Speaker 1: point and not saying he can't come back, but I
Speaker 1: do not see him returning for season three.
Speaker 2: I and this is where I'm mixed about it.
Speaker 3: I could see him, uh returning again just for a
Speaker 3: cameo and we kind of get an explanation of what
Speaker 3: he's doing, and then he goes on about his way.
Speaker 3: Him and Matt have another little moment, or him and
Speaker 3: Karen have a little bit of a moment, or I
Speaker 3: could also see them doing and I pray this does
Speaker 3: not happen.
Speaker 2: Do not get me wrong, I pray this does not happen.
Speaker 3: I could see them pulling a book of Boba Fett
Speaker 3: and having a one episode that is just about the
Speaker 3: Punisher that's like wedged in the middle of the season.
Speaker 1: Well, a lot to see, but uh yeah, we will
Speaker 1: let you let I'll put those out on Sunday, So
Speaker 1: let your voice to be heard with that. And let
Speaker 1: us close out this episode with diving into Age of
Speaker 1: Ultron issue number nine. We are now dealing with the
Speaker 1: post apocalypse, not an apocalypse, but like the Hella carrier
Speaker 1: being destroyed over New York City with you know, with
Speaker 1: what was it forgot her name already. Yeah, I want
Speaker 1: to like, in my mind if I say surance, it's
Speaker 1: not a chance with Morgan Fay and we're left.
Speaker 2: With the most unassuming, like that's who you'll chooses.
Speaker 1: Y'all villain yep, exactly. And so you know, we get
Speaker 1: Wolverine there, surviving it, going after these mixed Lorgan le
Speaker 1: Fay doom bots. At this point, Tony grabbing on to
Speaker 1: Wolverine saying, you know, look what you did. If you
Speaker 1: you cause this, if you let Pim live, you talk
Speaker 1: to us that when we want to done something, trying
Speaker 1: to get through to Wolverine, and then we start getting
Speaker 1: into great, he's gonna go back in the past, try
Speaker 1: to stop himself, try to do like it and cause
Speaker 1: more chaos. And man, this is like keen for when
Speaker 1: we see, you know, the Wolverine of the quote unquote
Speaker 1: past slash future. Then the future one comes back and
Speaker 1: says I need a different uniform and goes with the
Speaker 1: old school Wolverine uniform. You just expect the point. I mean,
Speaker 1: they're trying to get through to Hank Pim, and even
Speaker 1: Hank Pim looks at one point and saying, God, well,
Speaker 1: someone just telling like just get them out of here
Speaker 1: and do something, like you're sitting down and just trying
Speaker 1: to listen to these two banter back and forth.
Speaker 2: Yeah, he's he's.
Speaker 3: Literally sitting there with his hands on his chin like this,
Speaker 3: like I'm trying to follow what's going on. It sounds
Speaker 3: like one of you came from the future and the
Speaker 3: other one is trying to stop the past.
Speaker 2: But what the hell is this?
Speaker 1: Yeah, and then Sue comes in there and tries to
Speaker 1: talk some reason into them, and they're all just basically saying,
Speaker 1: if you're going to create this thing, fine, but you
Speaker 1: need to find a way to stop him from taking over.
Speaker 1: He's like, fine, you know, we'll figure it out. And
Speaker 1: so they go back to the Savage Land and now
Speaker 1: they got too Wolverine to deal with, and they basically
Speaker 1: the way they're going to solve it is one of
Speaker 1: them's got to kill the other, and so it's basically
Speaker 1: going to be past future Wolverine is going to kill
Speaker 1: future future Wolverine. And they do that for however he
Speaker 1: does it whatever, they don't really go into him.
Speaker 3: Yeah, he hits him with the you know, you know
Speaker 3: exactly what you need to do. So they and he
Speaker 3: he pops those those claws and you know as they
Speaker 3: walk into the cave to have a moment.
Speaker 1: Yep. And so we end the issue with Hank Pim
Speaker 1: developing his new Ultron in a very different form, saying
Speaker 1: no needs to plug me and Daddy, I'm alive, just
Speaker 1: like you, looking evil as ever. But next week we
Speaker 1: deal with the conclusion of Age of Ultron issue number ten. Yep,
Speaker 1: all right, well, BOBU ninety seven of the book. So
Speaker 1: this is where now we enter the unknown times until
Speaker 1: at the very least we know we're getting Spider Man
Speaker 1: Brand New Day, but that doesn't come until the end July,
Speaker 1: so we don't know. We haven't heard if they're going
Speaker 1: to be doing any sort of project at this point.
Speaker 1: I would venture to guess at this point, David, we
Speaker 1: should have heard if something was going to be released
Speaker 1: on Disney plus MCU. Wise, I would have ventured we
Speaker 1: would have heard about it. Don Now, for the summer,
Speaker 1: I think I think Spider Man Brand New Day is
Speaker 1: the next thing Marvel has coming out, and then in
Speaker 1: the fall we're gonna basically the end of summer fall,
Speaker 1: we're gonna be hit with a bunch of content being
Speaker 1: that x N ninety seven fall by Spider Man Friend
Speaker 1: Friendly with Spider Man and then ending with Vision Quest.
Speaker 2: Yeah, you know, yeah, or.
Speaker 1: Maybe I wouldn't say they're too animated. Project back forward,
Speaker 1: I think X Men ninety seven comes after Spider Man
Speaker 1: followed by Vision Quest followed by Friendly Neighborhood.
Speaker 2: Yeah.
Speaker 1: Am I wrong in that kind of assessment at this point,
Speaker 1: because I think we should have heard something by now,
Speaker 1: if something's coming this summer?
Speaker 3: Yeah, I definitely assumed that we would get something, even
Speaker 3: if it was, you know, some new show, a small,
Speaker 3: little animated features something, we would be getting something. I'm like,
Speaker 3: y'all are about the coast between now and the end
Speaker 3: of July on.
Speaker 2: Nothing, but.
Speaker 3: You know, loosely base Marvel, not MCU, but loosely Base Marvel.
Speaker 2: We've got Spider Noir coming.
Speaker 1: But outside of that, like yeah, yeah, yeah, you guy,
Speaker 1: So we do have that, we do have that coming up,
Speaker 1: but that's a binge model. We're basically going to be
Speaker 1: doing what we did for Wonder Man two weeks in
Speaker 1: a row for that. So I mean, yeah, I guess
Speaker 1: that's it, because that's coming what June.
Speaker 2: That is coming into May into May.
Speaker 1: Into May so we've only got a couple of weeks
Speaker 1: for that.
Speaker 2: Yeah, so.
Speaker 3: That having nothing on the horizon is is a little
Speaker 3: bit shocking, and but.
Speaker 2: Hey, I guess they are.
Speaker 3: They are ready to backload the second half of the
Speaker 3: year and just hit it full steam.
Speaker 1: Yep, I guess they just do that. So so we're
Speaker 1: entering so we'll have a couple of weeks before we
Speaker 1: get Spider Man Noir. We're three episodes away from episode
Speaker 1: three hundred, so we'll see where that lands. There may
Speaker 1: be next week where there's nothing at that point. David
Speaker 1: and I are going to take a week off at
Speaker 1: that point, so after basically would have amounted to nine
Speaker 1: weeks full of content, guaranteed content at that point. Yeah,
Speaker 1: we're probably gonna have a couple of these in a
Speaker 1: sentence point, but don't worry episode three hundred, We've already
Speaker 1: got a plan. We got some special stuff planned for that. So,
Speaker 1: but want to thank you for joining us. Following two
Speaker 1: hundred ninety seven, David tell people they can follow you.
Speaker 3: You can follow me on all socials at the Fantom.
Speaker 3: You can follow me here on the geek First Network
Speaker 3: as a part of our wrestling show The gimmick we
Speaker 3: come to after all the major events, and then we
Speaker 3: come to once a month with our WW two K
Speaker 3: twenty six live stream. We've got another episode coming up
Speaker 3: this Saturday. I know we've been doing a lot of Sundays,
Speaker 3: but next sorry, not this Saturday.
Speaker 2: It's gonna be next Saturday. It's gonna be the twenty
Speaker 2: third again.
Speaker 3: We normally do Sundays, but with me being out of
Speaker 3: town this week and then next Sunday being my fortieth birthday, we.
Speaker 2: Decided to switch it to a Saturday.
Speaker 3: So we're gonna do it on the twenty third, come
Speaker 3: to you with the wrestling stream, so stay tuned for
Speaker 3: more information on that.
Speaker 1: All right, check it out. Yes, you can follow me
Speaker 1: on all the socials at Chris Balgap And as always,
Speaker 1: we want to thank our official sponsor, panel Bound Comics
Speaker 1: dot Com. Use that code marvel gua to check out
Speaker 1: to get two dollars off every single order, or use
Speaker 1: the code mgua sit for five percent off when you
Speaker 1: order four or more books together. You can also follow
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Speaker 1: podcast at gmail dot com. Feel free to tweet email
Speaker 1: if under I feedback, ask questions, continue to rate, review
Speaker 1: of the podcast and Apple podcasts, Spotify, Amazon Music where
Speaker 1: to get your podcast for really appreciate it. Thank you
Speaker 1: all for joining us live in the tach Thank you
Speaker 1: all for listening. Stay safe out there everyone, and stand
Speaker 1: the man would say, excelsior, true believers. All right, David,
Speaker 1: what do you got for post credits tonight?
Speaker 2: All right?
Speaker 3: So at the Disney up fronts we only got really
Speaker 3: one piece of Marvel stuffing. Net was confirmation that Vision
Speaker 3: Quest will debut on October fourteenth on Disney Plus. So
Speaker 3: with the so you continuing after Dune's Day in confirmation
Speaker 3: of additional seasons of your friendly neighborhoods Spider Man and
Speaker 3: X Men ninety seven, When do you think we will
Speaker 3: get more TV news from Marvel?
Speaker 1: I would say probably D twenty three. This is the
Speaker 1: big year for D twenty three. They alternate every other year.
Speaker 1: Last year was the small year. So they are coming.
Speaker 1: Marvel is supposedly coming to I don't think it's been
Speaker 1: official yet. I think this is just coming from umberto
Speaker 1: and the rap saying that they're coming back, but it's
Speaker 1: never been officially confirmed Marvel as returning.
Speaker 3: Correct, Correct, it has not, It has not been It
Speaker 3: has not been been said. There's been a lot of
Speaker 3: rumors that they are going to go back to their
Speaker 3: roots and do the hall Ah thing again.
Speaker 2: So I'm hoping that's.
Speaker 3: That's true, especially since this is the year of you know,
Speaker 3: a big Avengers movie again. So and that was my
Speaker 3: guess is they are gonna save the big guns for
Speaker 3: the return to haul h.
Speaker 1: Yeah. I think that it'll be very much obviously doomsday focused,
Speaker 1: Spider Man Brand New Day would have just either come
Speaker 1: out or be coming out. I think that if they will,
Speaker 1: because we don't even hear anything filming at this point
Speaker 1: for next year. That's the thing. It's gonna be very
Speaker 1: interesting in landscape where what is coming next year outside
Speaker 1: of Secret Wars, you know, and that's not until December
Speaker 1: of next year. So I would say if they're putting
Speaker 1: something out there, we could get Marvel Zombies next year,
Speaker 1: but that's only four episodes. I don't hear anything live. Actually, well,
Speaker 1: we'll have Daredevil season three, so but that's not that
Speaker 1: we already know about that, So I say, Daredevil Season
Speaker 1: three's next year, Marvel Zombies could be next year new project.
Speaker 1: I still I'm sticking to the idea that they're going
Speaker 1: to do a new TV project or in streaming project.
Speaker 1: It's going to be a d twenty three. But I
Speaker 1: don't see I do see them doing any Marvel TV stuff,
Speaker 1: streaming stuff at at San Diego Comic Con.
Speaker 2: Yeah.
Speaker 3: Now, the the only thing that worries me about San
Speaker 3: Diego Comic Con being a vehicle for big TV announcements
Speaker 3: is the fact that it is the week before the
Speaker 3: premiere of Spider Man Brand New Day.
Speaker 2: So I don't know if you.
Speaker 3: Can announce without spoiling too much. But you know, I'm
Speaker 3: again I'm or taking away the thunder.
Speaker 2: Of this upcoming event.
Speaker 3: But I'm hoping that maybe hey, they announced something and
Speaker 3: it gets people excited for Marvel again, and maybe it
Speaker 3: brings a crowd in to say I need to jump
Speaker 3: back on the bandwagon and start with Brand New Day
Speaker 3: to get back on for those who felt the tiredness
Speaker 3: of way too much Marvel.
Speaker 1: Yeah. So all right, well we will see what happens
Speaker 1: next week. Again, there might be a possibility that we
Speaker 1: go dark next week. If there's nothing out there, but
Speaker 1: if there's some news, you know where to check us out.
Speaker 1: Next week, same Spidy time, same spidy channel. Hope you
Speaker 1: all have a great UPco weekend and week ahead, and
Speaker 1: stay safe and take care of yourself, take care of
Speaker 1: each other. We'll see you next week maybe bye bye
Speaker 1: see