Speaker 1: And Hello, how are you Welcome to the Big Podcast.
It is Tuesday. Today is the seventeenth day of February,
Year of Our Lord, twenty twenty six. My name is
Tom Sullivan. We've got a very busy podcast for you today.
Speaker 2: One.
Speaker 1: We started off this morning finding out that the Reverend
Jesse Jackson has passed away at the age of eighty four. Men,
we're doing O Bitch yesterday. Robert Duvall, he lived in
ninety five. I was surprised Jesse Jackson was eighty four.
I thought he was much older. But and he's been
saddled with all kinds of health problems over the last
couple of years. So we've got that. We also have
and finally some answers about the DNA on the glove
at Nancy Guthrie's house. Talks with Iran. We'll get you
up to date there, but let's start. Let's start with
the with the news about Jesse Jackson. I had him
on I had him on this show. Oh it was
a long time ago, but yeah, he was. He was
very nice and that was my days when I was
at Fox, so he was he wasn't afraid to go
on the other side. If you will. But the hard
part about wrapping a story around Jesse Jackson is that
Jesse Jackson has been in the thick of it regarding
civil rights since he was in his early twenties. So
that's sixty years of I mean a little bit of everything.
I mean politics and all the various organizations that he started.
But I mean he was there on the balcony of
the Lorraine Motel in Memphis, Tennessee, in nineteen sixty eight,
standing right next to Martin Luther King Junior when MLK
was gunned down. So behind there was Ralph Albert Abernathy
was Aaron, some other ministers and so forth. But obviously
the sudden death of MLK jor left a vacuum, and
Ralph Abernathy did some work. It was all part of
the Southern Christian Leadership Conference and they did a little
bit of this, a little bit of that. But the
guy who stepped in that vacuum was Jesse Jackson, and
he had a lot to do with basically building more
organizations regarding the civil rights. He started something called Operation
bread Basket. Andrew Young I'll play a clip that he
talks about that whole story started Operation Push, which led
to the Rainbow Coalition. He ran for president twice, in
nineteen eighty four, in nineteen eighty eight. There's a lot
of surprising things. Juan Williams also has a little bit
about the fact that Jesse Jackson and Barack Obama did
not have a good relationship, not at all. So let's
start with Andrew Young. I had Andrew Younger on my
program one time too. I was it was an because
Andrew Young first, well, he was the mayor of Atlanta,
but I think in those days he was the first
black mayor even in the South, ambassador to the United Nations,
I mean, the major civil rights leader. Let's start with
him talking about when, because because Andrew Young is ninety
three years of age and he sounds like he's still
going strong. Here he is.
Speaker 2: Jesse Jackson. I met in Selma. He was still a student,
and we had people backed up in the church because
the police had pushed us there and to keep people
from being hurt. I was standing and I've been there
all day. And he came up to me that night
and he said, look, I can hold this place for you.
You really need to go get some sleep. And I
was very grateful, and and then on. He was always
a young man looking at how he could help somebody,
and he helped me that night, and things went quietly,
and I talked to doctor King and I said, you know,
I'm not a young man last night. He's from Chicago.
When we go there, we need to look him up.
But he looked us up and we were good friends.
We worked closely together, but liked the civil rights movement
in general. There were always differences of opinion, and he
had a northern view although he was really from South Carolina.
He rallied to the problem that Chicago had almost two
million black folk, but the products produced by black people
I could not get on the shelves and the mainline stores.
And so he started Operation bread Basket.
Speaker 3: Just.
Speaker 2: Trying to get I remember it was Joe Louis milk,
and Joe Louis produced had a dairy in Chicago, and
they would let him sell his milk in a black
community and that was just unacceptable. And that was one
of the first targets that Jesse rallied the churches in
Chicago not to buy anything if they couldn't find Jois
milk in the stores. They of course changed for rather
rapidly and in a few years he had integrated the
shelf space in the Chicago stores and that was the
beginning of Operation bread Basket.
Speaker 1: Yeah, it was also the beginning of so Muchesse Jackson did.
But I mean, you think that was the nineteen sixties
in Chicago, in black neighborhoods, they would not allow this
dairy farmer Joe Lewis what was his name, Jill Lewis
to put his milk on the shelf of stores in
black neighborhoods in Chicago in the nineteen sixties. So Jesse
Jackson made it happen. Well, Wan Williams, who was at
the time a reporter for the Washington Post, talks about
when he was assigned to cover the story about Jesse Jackson.
Speaker 4: Well, clearly, Jesse Jackson and a man with you know,
clearly a legend in the civil rights movement. But he's
also a legendary figure in terms of American politics because
he literally bridges generations. You know, he died today eighty
four years old, but you go back to the nineteen
sixties and there he was with Reverend King on the
back balcony when Reverend King was shot. And he is
the most notable ear of doctor King. And then you
think about, you know, doctor King's work to produce the
sixty five Voting Rights Act, and Jesse Jackson takes that
mantle and he moves forward. In the seventies, he creates
Rainbow Push. They pushed for a greater civic engagement for
black people, greater corporate engagement. And then, of course, as
you said, he runs for president in eighty four and
eighty eight, and he was a great speaker. I covered
him out on rallies and speeches. I even went to
Cuba with him when he met Fidel Castro. And let
me tell you, this is a great speaker. Now, the
thing of it is, he couldn't He got along great
with Bill Clinton. Clinton gave him the Medal of Freedom,
but he had no relationship. Again, I go back to
this idea, he crosses generations. He had a terrible or
no relationship with Barack Obama and really was eclipsed during
the Obama years kind of the height of black politics
in America.
Speaker 1: That is amazing. And yeah, during Barack Obama's presidency, Jesse
Jackson all but disappeared. He was not to be seen.
And you go back and what wan was talking about
the fact that it's awfully hard. Like I said, the
length of time that Jesse Jackson was a major civil
rights leader in this country is so long it's awfully
hard to find one little era. He spent his whole life,
from his twenties till the day he died. But going
back to this great relationship with Barack Obama, what was
the reason for all this one?
Speaker 4: Well, I think that he had hoped that his son,
Jesse Junior, you know, who was elected to Congress at
one point, would kind of rise up and become the
next Jesse Jackson. It just didn't happen. Instead, here comes
a young man out of Chicago with no direct roots
to the civil rights movement.
Speaker 5: Uh.
Speaker 4: And that young man is Barack Obama, who you know,
wins election to state Senate in Illinois and then runs
for president. And I think Jesse Jackson felt like he
wasn't respectful of him. And even in the way that
Obama spoke about race, and he spoke about you know,
joining hands working with whites, and Jesse Jackson was, you know,
glad to work with you. But Jesse Jackson really was
always speaking in terms of the black experience and when
Barack Obama said that black men need to be more
response in terms of their fathers and as in terms
of being fathers. If you recall he said on our
ear on Fox knew some awful things about than you
know Canada Obama. So I mean this, these things happened,
but it was never a comfortable relationship. In al Sharpton
was much closer as in terms of being a lion
to civil rights leaders in the black community for Obama
than Jackson ever was.
Speaker 1: I went back to a little researching, Associated Press came
up with a number of key reasons why they did
not get along, which is surprising. But apparently Jesse Jackson
was frustrated with Barack Obama's He called it preachy tone
toward black men and a feeling of being sidelined after
all the work that Jesse Jackson had done on I mean,
you know, out there on the streets, out there in
the protest, out there going up against police lines, and
he felt that as a veteran civil rights leader, that
Obama was talking down to Black people, and so he
made some pretty nasty comments about Barack Obama. Part of
it was a generational that Obama focused on personal responsibility
to black audience's Jesse Jackson thought was inappropriate that Obama
was acting white, and that I don't want to get
into well. He said in two thousand and eight on
a Fox News interview that in an open mic, the
hot mic, he said he wanted to cut Obama's shall
we say privates off regarding his speeches to black audiences.
So there was a generational difference, but that I don't
think ever healed. The thing about Jesse Jackson was he
knew how to promote civil rights and he knew how
to negotiate with business leaders because he would go in
just like the story about making sure that grocery stores
and so forth it did not carry Joe it was milk.
He put up a boycott, and the boy that changed everything.
He integrated those grocery shelves very very quickly. Well, he
learned from that, and he went on to basically say
to businesses, unless you provide more jobs for Black Americans
in your big company, and oh, by the way, you
might want to make a donation to the Rainbow Coalition,
unless you do these things, we're gonna have Black America
boycott your business, and we're going to go out and
make life miserable for you, and those businesses said all right.
And so as a result, he was able to get
a lot of places integrated and raised a lot of
money for the Rainbow Coalition. So, I mean a real
legend in American history, and he really stepped into it.
It was MLK who got the whole civil rights movement
really moving. But with that vacuum when MLKA Jr. Was
shot and killed, Jesse Jackson saw the opportunity and ran
with it. So that's Jesse Jackson eighty four. May he
rest in peace. The glove. Let's talk about the glove,
because the glove they got the DNA back from the
various labs. Remember there was two gloves. No, there was
the glove the guy was wearing in that video. And
then they found a glove. They found sixteen gloves, but
they found one that looked kind of like it was
maybe the same glove. So they ran it through a
private DNA lab in Florida, and then they sent it
up to up to the FBI in Quantico to see
if there was any DNA that would show up on
the Cotis system. And the CODAS system only has DNA
from p people that are convicted felons primarily, and it
came back today that no, there was it did not
get a hit. There was no hit. And they also
they have DNA that they found in the house of
Nancy Guthrie, and that DNA also came back that there
was no hit on Codas here is the sheriff of
Pima County.
Speaker 6: The DNA on the glove that was found two miles
away was submitted for COTIS, and I just heard that
COTIS had no hits.
Speaker 7: No hits on the DNA found in the glove. Correct,
So you are no closer to a suspect as a
result of the DNA test, at least.
Speaker 6: As a result of COTIS.
Speaker 1: So when they was asked, they're no closer, he said,
he narrated to Koda. So, in other words, still still
looking and what's their Probably I'm going to guess that
they're taking the DNA that they found in the home
and they're going to run that through a genealogical DNA operation,
just like they did in the Coburger case. They didn't
know they found DNA on that knife sheath, but they
had no idea who that was. They ran it through
CODIS and Coburger did not have a criminal record, so
they came up with no hit. So they ran it
through a genealogical DNA, and they came up with the
family tree that led to Coburger's father, which led to Coburger.
So I presume even though a lot of the law
enforcement people are talking about the fact that they've hit
a LULL, I would imagine behind the scenes the forensics
people are working double triple time here is Josh Ritter.
Speaker 8: I don't think there's an easy way of putting it
that it's discouraging. These appear to be setbacks. You were
hoping for some sort of hit, some sort of lead,
some sort of way to move the investigation forward with
that glove that they found. But especially discouraging is the
idea that the glove doesn't even match the DNA inside
of the home, so we can't even determine at this
point if the glove is even involved or if it's
just a false lead, just some random glove that was
left behind. And the idea that the DNA, the unidentified
DNA found inside the home, which is their best lead
as far as the forensic goes, comes back to nothing
in codis again, Yes, it's nice that they have a sample,
but now they don't have any anything to do with
that sample unless they're testing against people that they're detaining.
As far as the comments about whether or not this
was a kidnapping a residential burglary gone bad, I think
it's really a distraction at this point because that person
showed up with obvious bad intentions. He's got a mask on,
he's got gloves on, he's got a gun, he's got
a backpack. He's going inside that home to commit some
sort of crime, and perhaps most likely some sort of
crime of violence, whether that's kidnapping, whether or not he
showed up to take things from the home, I don't
think that gets us any closer to finding the individual
or finding Nancy. And kind of quibbling over words or
what his intentions were just seems like we're debating over theories.
Especially when it's coming from law enforcement. You think the
focus would just be on finding new evidence and finding suspects,
which apparently at this point they have none.
Speaker 1: Well, what he's referring to is again we'll go back
to the sheriff, and the sheriff basically said, look at
this is this wasn't a burglary gone bad. This was
a targeted kidnapping. Here's the sheriff you just.
Speaker 9: Had you and brief. I believe it's a kidnapping. I
believe it was a kidnat targeted kidnapping. Yes, I believe
whoever did that knew what they were doing to. So
do you believe who they were after? Forty people a
gun stores?
Speaker 6: That's not true?
Speaker 7: Okay, So have you narrowed it down to a few
dozen or we.
Speaker 6: Haven't narrowed it down to anything other than we have
certain pieces of evidence that we're looking at to try
to find this individual, whether it be DNA, whether it
be that ring camera video, whether it be evidence at
a Walmart that might lead us to somebody.
Speaker 1: Yeah, I'm convinced that. No, they don't have a name
right now, but they are the forensics people are able
to do magic, and I suspect they are working very
very hard on genealogical DNA and will probably surprise everybody
just like they did with Coburger. Might take a few weeks,
but it's I think they're on the trail of whoever
that person was. Meanwhile, in Geneva, Switzerland, today the talks
continued with between Iran and the US, and no, there
wasn't an agreement. But they I think they're playing as
I just do. They're saying, well, we let me go
back and work on some of the more specific details
of our conversation and let's get back together again in
a couple of weeks. So that's where the Iran talks
are right now. Is there on hold while the Iranians
go back to Tehran to figure out what details they
want to try to negotiate next time. Here's Dan Hofflin,
former CIA station chief in Moscow.
Speaker 10: Well, that would, first of all, be a failure on
the part of Iran to negotiate in good faith. And
the Iranians have been pretty steadfast. They just want to
talk about the nuclear program. Their deputy foreign minister has
demanded publicly that we eliminate sanctions as a precursor for
those negotiations to take place, which isn't going to happen.
The United States is also interested in focusing on Iran's
ballistic missile capability and their material support to proxy terrorists.
If indeed, Iran doesn't demonstrate any good faith, Although the
latest reporting indicates that they may have agreed to some
sort of a framework, we don't know the details, then
the United States would be prepared to launch strikes potentially
on what's left of Iran's nuclear program, perhaps against the
Iranian Revolutionary Guard corpse senior leadership, to demonstrate that Iran
really does need to come to the table. Hanging in
the balance, of course, is this protest movement arguably the
strongest one we've seen since the Green movement over a
decade ago, and the question of whether if we were
to eliminate sanctions, what that would mean by throwing a
lifeline to this regime, what that would mean for the
protests in Iran.
Speaker 1: Amos Hokstein, who is a diplomat and negotiator, was also
asked about where this is going with these talks with Iran.
Speaker 11: We have a very strange set of talks, because on
the one hand, we have talks that looks like they're
today's at least talks round ended positively with a positive
atmosphere and positive comments. In the background, the President the
United States is threatening the Iranians with military action if
they fail. The Iranian Supreme Leader is threatening the United
States to sink our boats, and the Iranians had a
naval exercise where they had to shut down the strait
of her moves, which is of course the choke point
through which a third of the world's oil goes through
for a naval exercise. So it's these two different parallels
at the very same time. I think both sides are
looking to extend the talks and use the time to
figure out what they actually want to do. Well, look,
we have the think about why we got here. Iran
has been an enemy of the United States, has been
an adversary with clashes between the United States and Iran.
Really threw proxies over the last several decades, and that's
been happened consistently. Iran escalated its attacks against Israel, against
American forces in the region after October seven at different flashpoints,
and then during the demonstrations that the Iranian people had
in January against the regime, they brutally massacred their own people.
That is and remember President Trump said help is on
the way, and that is what got us here. The
threat to attack Iran militarily by the United States not
a direct confrontation between Iran against the United States, but
rather they were mastering their own people. And the question becomes,
why should the United States go to war and what's
the purpose of the war. I think that's what the
military leaders are telling the president. We can destroy large
parts of Iran, but we cannot tell you what happens
on the day after, and that is giving them pause.
Speaker 1: Yes, and we have also learned some lessons from that.
I mean, we'll see what happens with Venezuela. But you
go back to Iraq. Iraq is a disaster. It is
full of violence. Yeah, Saddam Hussein was kicked out, and
go to Libya that also is a complete mess. So
sometimes you have to stop and think, do we really
need to overthrow the leader of this particular country. And
one more that's going on. We'll go back to Dan
Hoffman about Ukraine, because the talks are still going on
about what to do between Russia and Ukraine. Here's Hoffman.
Speaker 10: Yeah, listen, I hate to be pessimistic, but I think
having served many years in the Soviet post Soviet evil
Empire in Moscow maybe gives me the right to say it.
I just don't know that I see any potential for
negotiations to bring an end to the war. Putin's strategic
objective is to overthrow Ukraine's democratically elected government and install
a puppet regime. War's end when both sides are too
exhausted to fight, or one side wins. We're not seeing
that Ukraine doesn't want to give up heavily fortified parts
of the don Bass that Russia hasn't conquered out of
concern rightly so that that would leave them vulnerable to
future attacks. And so I think the question here is
whether Ukraine has faced with just capitulate, which they're not
going to do, or fight on for their independence. And
that's where Europe and with the United States, is a
backstop have to step in and make it clear to Putin,
even more so than we already have, that the war
is a loser and he needs to stop. But Vladimir
Putin hasn't stopped. He's launched indiscriminate attacks on Ukraine's civilian
population and the energy infrastructure, and the war carries on,
I think, until we blunt the Russian army's attack and stop.
But I think General Jack Keen has also made that
point quite forcefully.
Speaker 1: So speaking of all the international diplomacy and all the
issues facing countries of the world, the Munich Security Conference
has become quite the prominent place for world leaders to
get together and talk about world security. Last year, Vice
President J. D. Vance went there and ruffled the feathers
of Europe talking about they got to get their act
together and don't basically rely upon the US. Well, that
caused a big stink. This year, our Secretary of State
Marco Rubio is getting nothing but applaud from both applauds
from both the left and the right, Democrats and Republicans
going wow, he went over there and really repaired a
lot of our real life relationship with Europe, but also
was able to tell them to get their act together.
So Marco Rubio is getting a huge positive coming out
of the Munich Security Conference. And then in the midst
of all this, AOC. This is a big miss because
I know she's a big lefty and she's the squad
and all these things that people put her down. But
she's got to be strategically pretty smart politically to get
from being a bartender to being not only a member
of Congress but a prominent influential member in Congress. She
has a lot of power. And so she goes to
the Munich Security Conference and apparently she has been working
for months with people that really know the ins and
outs of national security issues. And she got there and
the people at the Munich Security conference that we're putting on.
That conference had her sit down and ask her a
few questions. This is one that they asked about, what
if China invades Taiwan? What will the United States do?
This is AOC's well attempt at an answer. It's really bad.
Speaker 12: Would and should the US actually commit US troops to
defend Taiwan if China were to move?
Speaker 7: You know, I think that.
Speaker 3: This is such a you know, I think that.
Speaker 12: This is a.
Speaker 3: This is of course a very long standing.
Speaker 7: Policy of the United States.
Speaker 1: But what's the standing long standing policy of the United States?
She doesn't know. I mean, I'm sorry, we've all been there.
When you were in school somewhere, I don't know, third
grade teacher calls on you. You're supposed to have read
that chapter in the book, and you did not. So
you stand up and you try to byes your way
through it. That's what she's doing. Here's another shot at it.
Speaker 3: Madudo was as a leader, he canceled elections, he was
an anti democratic leader. That doesn't mean that we can
kidnap a head of state and engage in acts of
war just because the nation is below the equator.
Speaker 1: Uh, she's talking about Venezuela. But if you know your geography,
Venezuela is not below the equator. So she just kept
stepping in it. And she looked foolish. She really did.
Even Ben Shapiro though's the Well, of course he thought
she did a terrible job.
Speaker 12: Well, I mean, it's not our fault for noticing that
she was horrible. My favorite conced here is that she
goes abroad, she says a bunch of incredibly stupid things.
And that's leaving me aside her general message, which was
that there has to be class solidarity across countries between
people who are poor and people who are rich. But
put that aside. I'm sorry, but if you proceed to
give an answer reminiscent of that famous clip of Miss
South Carolina attempting to answer a question about the Iraq
War from fifteen years ago, and you're on a national,
international stage, that is your fault.
Speaker 2: Right.
Speaker 12: She apparently prepared for this for months. According to Politico,
she had had multiple sessions with Matt dust, who is
Bernie Sanders's foreign policy advisor. Leave aside the advisability or
inadvisability of going to Bernie Sanders's foreign policy advisor for
your actual takes on the world. The fact that AOC
spent months preparing for this and then proceeded to fall
all over herself on basic questions and to place Venezuela
below the equator. Again, that is your fault, lady. It's
nobody else's fault. You were the one who went and obviously, look,
she was taking her twenty twenty eight bike out for
a spin. She hit the embankment, she flipped head over
heels and went all the way down the mountain.
Speaker 7: It's her fault.
Speaker 1: Everybody's saying that. That's what it is, is that you
have to go over there get your bona fides in
order to run for president. That's how big the Munique
Security Conference has become and since been bridled up. About
the question about Miss South Carolina answering your question about
the world map, let's let's let's just for old times sake,
listen to it one more time.
Speaker 5: Okay, recent polls have shown a fifth of Americans can't
locate the US on a world map.
Speaker 7: Why do you think this is?
Speaker 5: I personally believe that US Americans are unable to do
so because some people out there in our nation don't
have thats. And I believe that our education like such
as South Africa and Iraq everywhere like such as and
I believe that they should our education over here in
the US should help the US, or should help South Africa,
and should help Diraq the Asian countries, so we will
be able to build up our future.
Speaker 7: For heart, Thank you very much, South Carolina.
Speaker 1: That's kind of the standard now for somebody who does
not have a clue what they're talking about. So AOC
gave it her best shot. And I really know, in
all seriousness, I think this is the kind of thing
that can change the direction of her future political career.
I think she has big, big, big wishes, and I
just think she just unfortunately those wishes may not come
to fruition. But Wall Street had a positive day today.
We'll give them some applause. The Dow up thirty two.
Will take it up thirty two to forty nine thousand
and five thirty three s and p up seven, Nasdaq
up thirty one. So pretty quiet out there. Price of
gold down one hundred forty eight dollars to four thousand
and eight ninety eight and oil down sixty cents or so,
just sixty two dollars for one barrel of oil. So
thank you for coming by, have yourself a wonderful rest
of your Tuesday. We will be back tomorrow and I
hope to see you that