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Speaker 1: So for my opening statement, the first thing I want

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to do is me and Jay sort of have trouble

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titling the thing because I don't think I feel like

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we was missing each other. But it's about do we

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have to keep Tora or not? So I don't know

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if I don't know if Jay, as an Orthodox Christian,

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believe they do keep Torah but Taurus. If anybody doesn't

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know the first pub books of Moses, and it's the law.

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Whenever the Bible says the law, it's referring to that

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when it says the prophecy and the writings referring to

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the rest of t knock. Now, secondly, as a tour

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keeping Christian, I know that might come a shock. A

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lot of people don't believe Christians can do. So I

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already understand I have the unpopular position in this scenario.

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I'm used to it. It's what I do, It's what

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I'm known for. But somebody gotta do it. But with

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that being said, I've probably been like one hundred of

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these types of debates. People minds rarely change. People in

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the chat are gonna support whoever they are to support beforehand.

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Their mind's not going to change. So then the question

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is why am I doing this. I'm really only doing

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this for the remnant, for the people that have an

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open mind, just want to hear somebody out and hope

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I get the same respect which the flack. I will

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with a moderator that I gave Jay Diary when he

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was on my channel. I'll let him tell us about

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orthodox Christianity, without argument, without interrupting, without anything, because you

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have the people are fair shy. Now, Jay Dyer, who

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I like, by the way, he's known for debating, typically

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when it comes to Christian history. He's very good at

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that pierpoint blank. But this debate for me is really

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just one question, and it's a question that everybody knows

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I'm going to ask, and I don't have to play

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a secret hand because nobody can sufficiently answer the question.

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And Jay knows my question because I asked him this

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publicly at an event, And it's about what Jesus said

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and the Sermon on the Mount, and it's Matthew chapter five,

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verses seventeen to twenty one, with verse seventeen being one

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of the most popular things that Jesus said that Christians

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had got a contest. Now, when I asked him this

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in person. Let me just read the part until Heaven

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and Earth past, not one job or till or trying

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to know why it's passed from the law until all's fulfilled.

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And the verse clearly tells you that all beings can't

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be fulfilled or accomplished until Heaven and Earth past. That's

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clear in the text, no other way to interpret it.

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And Jay's response, I always remember at the event was

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Luke twenty four to forty four, and I could be wrong,

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so Overhill correct me in his opening statement, but he

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tried to say that in Luke twenty four to forty

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four it implied that everything had already been fulfilled. Now

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that is clearly impossible since Heaven and Earth hasn't passed yet,

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which no Christian would say Heaven and Earth has passed

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because two Peter wants you of Heaven and Earth pass

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and then we know Heaven and Earth doesn't pass until

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Revelation twenty one if that's a part of your cannon,

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but it doesn't matter what you believe in. We know

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Heaven and Earth hasn't passed. And the issue with this

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question is is simple. If I'm not taking it out

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of context, then Jesus said what he said. Now, let

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me predict how typically these conversations go. You tell a

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Christian Matthew File seventeen to twenty one. They attempt the

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first say is out of context. We read the entire

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context together, and everybody knows I pretty much notice Summer

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on them out by heart. And they then can't say

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it's out of context. And then they run to Paul.

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They go to Paul uh and they try to use

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Paul sub constantly to argue against Jesus because you couldn't

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take you couldn't claim what I said about Jesus out

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of context. That's a very dangerous thing to do inherently,

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But it's so beautiful that the Bible warns us about

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these types of people. In Second Peter three sixteen, the

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Bible literally says, ignorant and unstable people will take Paul

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out of context and use them to their own destruction.

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And Peter actually calls these people unscrupulous people that are

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attempting to make you lose your firm commitment. And it

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tells you that, knowing this beforehand, be on your guard.

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So whenever people jump straight to Paul to argue with

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Jesus instead of confirming or denying what Jesus said. I

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find it to be very very interesting with Jay. I'm

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going to assume he's going to go the more historical route. Well,

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who gave you the Bible? Uh, and and and and

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the Church has a correct interpretation and you can't interpret

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it without the Church. Now, if I'm not mistaken, right,

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I know a bit about Christian history, admittedly not as

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much about Jay Dyer. I'm more so I know scripture,

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I know the Bible. But if I'm not mistaken, the

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council the first council for the cannon, and people don't

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know the different cannons happened over there. The councils was

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the Council of Rome, if I'm not mistaken, which was

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in the late three hundreds, which could be wrong. That's

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based off memory, though late three hundreds. I find it

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interesting because Iranius and Papers was the last name. Papers

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are Heeropolis. They clearly affirmed the gospels. Matter of fact,

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Iranius was pretty much argue with people that was trying

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to say only one of the Gospels are accurate, and

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he was already saying all four Gospels are accurate. And

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that was hundreds of years earlier than any of these cannons.

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So the scriptures are the scripture, and I fly like

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that's a side argument. I fla, it's a side argument

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because it has nothing to do with the point. If

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you believe that your church chose this cannon, and you

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need to believe in what it says. So again, my

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main question is Jesus simmon on them ount Matthew five

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seventeen to twenty one. And I hope this question will

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get answered, and I'm about to say it to y'all

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off memory. Hopefully I'll get it correct. I did not

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come to abolish the law or the prophets. I came

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to fulfilled, and Christians think fulfilled means abolished, even though

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he clearly said otherwise. And then he says, for verily,

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I say unto you, not one jot or tittle shalle

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in no wives pass from the law until all is accomplished.

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And then he says that if you nullify one of

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the least of these commandments and teach others to do

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the same thing, meaning teach others to nullify one of

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the least of the commandments, then you will be called

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least in the Kingdom of Heaven. This is Jesus' words,

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and this is talking about the future. So you can't

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say this change when Jesus died on the cross, because

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Jesus is clearly giving you something that's going to happen

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in the future. He said, but if you teach keeping

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the commandments and teach others to do so, and keep

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them yourself, then you will be called great in the

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Kingdom of heaven. For verily I say unto you your

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unless your righteousness exceed that of the scribes and Pharisees,

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you challe in no case enter the Kingdom of Heaven.

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And then for people that try to claim that he's

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only referring to the Ten Commandments, that is impossible because

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then right after this he goes on to do what

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people call up a fence around the tour, or make

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the law more strict. And in these things from the

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that he takes from the law, almost half of them,

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I'm not even in the ten Commandments to begin with.

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So obviously he's referring to more than the Ten Commandments,

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which he made clear when he said law or the prophets,

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prophets or obviously after the law, this this consists. This

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is what the to not consist of. So the context

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is very clear, and I think this is an interesting thing.

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So my one question is what did Jesus mean by that?

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If I'm taking it out of context? My second question

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is will you be called great or least in the

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Kingdom of Heaven according to Jesus Christ? And I will

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yield the rest of my time. I don't know how

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long I just went.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, thank you for coming. Let's let's get into my

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opening statement before I address some of the points that

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Bryson made there. One thing I would say is that

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the argument that I gave wasn't in the live event

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from Luke twenty four. It was Luke twenty one, which

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locates the context of everything that Jesus is saying in

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that chapter about the destruction of Jerusalem. Because Luke's written

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for a gentile audience. It's referring to that time period

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that group of people standing in front of him. Jesus

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says they would see all of these things fulfilled. And

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Luke is very important because his account of the all

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of that discourse the destruction of Jerusalem is more specific

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for a gentile audience explaining what's going on. So all

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those statements about not fleeing Jerusalem on the Sabbath that

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I saw Bryson was kind of referencing on Twitter the

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other day. Those are actually statements about the seventy eighty

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destruction of Jerusalem, a very famous event that fulfills many

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of these Old Testament passages about as Jesus says, all

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things written and the prophets will come upon this generation,

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that being the generation that he was speaking to. This

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is why he says in so many places that the

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Kingdom of God is in your midst. The Kingdom of

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God is here, it is now, and the Kingdom of

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God is identified with the Church in Matthew sixteen. So

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the Church is that kingdom. It's established at Christ's ministry.

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It's also established at the feast of Pentecost. And that's

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interesting because if you look at Pentecost, it's another thing

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that proves this point. Because I feel strongly that if

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I were to read Joel, particularly Joel two, about in

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the last days, I will pour out my spirit upon

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all flesh, and your sons and daughters will see visions, etc.

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Bryson in his exegesis, I feel like he would ascribe

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that to the end times, much like he would describe

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Luke twenty one in Matthew twenty four to be explicitly

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or solely about the last days, and yet Joel two

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is cited as fulfilled in the event of Pentecost in

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Acts too, again powerful proofs of what we call partial preterism,

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not full preterism, which is the idea that everything mentioned

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is fulfilled. Events like the bodily resurrection, events like the

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destruction of Satan, death and Hell being thrown into the

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Lake of Fire, etc. Are clearly those things have not

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been fulfilled. However, the destruction of the Temple, which is

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an immense redemptive historic event, is a fulfillment of multiple

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Old Testament passes, particularly the warnings that Israel is given

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in the Law in Deuteronomy and in Leviticus about having

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the Covenant curses poured out upon them if they reject God.

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Their final full rejection of God was in the rejection

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of the person of God himself, the Logos, when he

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became incarnate. As John says in John One, in the beginning.

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In the beginning was the word, the war was with God.

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The word was God. That means that Christ is the

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second person of the God, had eternally begotten to the Father.

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As John says later in that chapter, that even when

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he was walking around with us, he was in the

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bosom of the Father. And that's why every chapter in

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the Book of John goes on to describe either references

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to the deity of Christ or to the deity of

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the Father, the Son, and the Holy Spirit. So the

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Book of John is a powerful testament in the New

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Testament to the full divinity of Christ. And I say

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that because, and I know the debate is not about

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the Trinity, but Bryson does not accept the Doctor in

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the Trinity. And that matters because we're going to see

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who gave the law. It's Jesus that gave the law

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to Moses on Mount Sinai, and Jesus himself makes this

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very clear in the Book of John. Before we get

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to that, I do want to talk about Bryson's statement

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about the history of things. If Bryson is going to

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argue that his chief contention is Matthew five, the Beatitudes,

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and so forth, this assumes, yes, that Matthew is an

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authoritative text, But there's nothing in Matthew's Gospel that tells

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us that Matthew, the disciple of Christ wrote the book,

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and certainly apo authorship is important. It does matter. In fact,

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it matters a big It matters a lot whether or

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not he wrote that, because he's supposedly an eyewitness and

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a person there in the presence of Christ seeing all

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of this stuff. And so Bryson is correct to cite Papias.

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Papius is the earliest witness that we have that it's

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Matthew the disciple. That's a Patristic tradition, that's not something

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in the text itself. And so Bryson, without realizing it,

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is relying on the tradition and testimony of the Church fathers,

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whom he does not accept. In fact, he even cited Aeronaus,

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and I had to get Eronaus off the shelf because

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in Aeronaus's Against Heresies, who was a bishop in the

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Orthodox Church. By the way, if you look at book

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three of Aeronaus's treatise, written in one eight a d.

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Aeronaus goes into depth talking about the tradition of apostolic

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succession in the churches and how it's necessary to look

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to churches like the Bishopric of Rome as well as

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others to see that apostolic tradition is inseparable from the Gospel,

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the deposit of faith, and thus knowing the scriptures. So

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Bryson just admitted that he has to referred to Orthodox

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saints and church fathers in the first few centuries to

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even know that Matthew is part of the Bible. So

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you'll notice this book here that we call the Bible.

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It's made up of many many it's a book of books.

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But this didn't fall out of heaven into Bryson's lap.

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It didn't come to him in a vacuum. It came

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to him historically. It was transmitted and passed down much

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the same way that the Jews transmitted and passed down

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not just the written Torah, but also the oral Torah,

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which Jesus refers to incites in many places. And so yes,

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my first challenge is that Bryson can cite passages, but

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I need to know why on his view, I'm supposed

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to accept that he even has access to or a

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basis to know the right canon if he's divorced it

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from the Church who made the decision to put that together.

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And he's correct that one of the early witnesses to

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the canon that we accept is the African councils that

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are confirmed by Rome, the Canons of Carthage, the African

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Code as it's called, that eventually passed into for the

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Orthodox Church what we call the Council of Trollo, and

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it's appended together in the fifth and sixth Councils according

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to the Seventh Council. So the Seventh Council basically says,

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we accept Trello and all of those canonical lists, and

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that is in this book of the chaft set. You

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can see it right here where it lists uh oh,

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none of the books that a Protestant accepts, or excive

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me a list of the dudocanonical books the Protestants don't accept.

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Why does that matter, Well, because it just simply shows

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that Protestants of all forms, all shapes have the wrong canon.

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They look to the Church of History to give them

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accurate tradition when it comes to people like or Irenaeus

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in regard to citing the Gospels. But why does Bryson

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care what Ireneus says when Bryson doesn't accept anything else

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Ierinea says as a bishop in the Orthodox Church, what

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we might cite any other church father that disagrees. So

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what if one or two church fathers cites this or

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that gospel. That doesn't tell me which one I'm supposed

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to follow, especially if there's conflicting canons, and there absolutely are.

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We can give multiple lists of canons in the first

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six centuries of the Church. Now let's get back to

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the Bible itself. The Torah was given to Moses. But

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in the Torah, disputes are assumed to be something that

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will occur for Israel, and so Moses set down a

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pattern of how disputes would be solved. This is the elders,

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This is the high priests, etc. Who are put in

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place to make to judge. Ultimately at the beginning, it's

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Joshua and the seventy elders in numbers eleven Deuteronomy twenty one.

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This is why we see, for example, the laying on

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of hands of Joshua and number twenty seven. This laying

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on a hand and transmission of authority in the Old

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Testament is precisely what Jesus does as the founder of

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the true spiritual Israel, the fulfillment of historic Israel in

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appointing apostles, which he says in Luke ten sixteen, He

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who hears you hears me. That means that succession of

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authority that Christ has, that by the way, he gave

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the law to Moses, because he's the one that spoke

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to Moses in John five. Especially when we get through

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John five, six, seven, eighty nine, when Jesus is disputing

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with the Pharisees. His argument against them is that no

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one saw the Father in the Old Testament. In Exodus,

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when there was the manifestation of God at Mount Sinai,

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that was not the Father. He says, it was me.

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Moses wrote about me, Moses and Abraham believed in me.

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So he is identifying himself with the manifestation in the

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burning bush. If you go back to Exodus and compare

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that with Exodus twenty three, you will notice that God says,

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I will put my name, my divine name of Yahweh

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in my Angel, the messenger, Angel of the Lord, that

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speaks in the bush that goes before Israel. In the

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book of Exodus, likewise, Moses goes up on the mountain,

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and according to Paul and Second Corinthians, he eats a

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meal with God. Now no one sees the Father. So

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Moses wasn't eating a meal with the Father. He's eating

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a meal with the Lord, the Angel of the Lord,

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the second person of the Godhead, who is a Theophany

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in the Old Testament in many, many, many passes, dozens

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of passages. We can go back to Genesis the appearance

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to Abraham Genesis eighteen. Abraham has a meal with God.

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He's identified as like Yahweh the Lord. How do you

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eat with God? Oh, it's just like Moses going up

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on the mountain and eating the meal with God. Who God,

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Jesus ergo, Jesus is the one giving the covenantal meal

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there and the law there. This is the giving of

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the Mosaic law. The point of this is that the law,

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all of it, has a tilos, a purpose that Bryson

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has missed. It is not can I talk the Gentiles

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into believing in the ceremonial commands, in all six hundred

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or whatever commands of the Torah, because we know that

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that can even literally be kept because there is no temple.

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In fact, Genesis forty nine predicted that when the Messiah comes,

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the scepter will depart from Judah. That then comes Shiloh,

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to whom the nations will look. That means one of

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the signs of the coming of the Messiah is the

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removal of the Davidic lineage. It ends. It's done why

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Because he is the fulfillment of the david covenant, He's

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also the fulfillment of the Noea covenant. The Noea covenant

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is key because it shows us that righteousness is not

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had by Mosaic law. It doesn't mean the mosaics law

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is bad. It has a purpose, But Bryson has again

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missed that purpose. Because Jesus is the living Torah, the

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living Law, the New Moses. You see what about those commands?

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Do we keep those commands? Yes, we do. In fact,

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there are multiple references throughout the New Testament to all

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kinds of ceremonial commands. Many of those ceremonial commands are

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cited by Paul, for example, in Corinthians, when he says

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not to muzzle an ox when he's treading out the grain.

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How does Paul apply that? Paul specifically says, is it oxen?

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God is concerned about ergo? No, He wrote that for

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our benefit, he says, And the meaning of the passage,

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the spiritual meaning of this ceremonial command, this penal sanctioned command.

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In the book of Deuteronomy is that ministers, who are

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symbolized by the oxen should have right to the field

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that they work. They should be able to eat from

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the work that they do. In other words, ministers can

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make money. That's Paul's point. Multiple times we see these

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principles applied in the New Testament of ceremonial passages that

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are not done away with. They are still kept. It's

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just that Bryson doesn't understand how they're kept. They're kept

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in a different way than he thinks they're kept, and

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in fact, his understanding of the Jewish interpretation itself is wrong.

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The Mosaic Law was not given to the nations to

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the gentiles. It was given to the people of Israel

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for them to teach the nations about the true spiritual

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pedagogy and meaning of the commands. Paul says in Corinthians

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that uncircumcision and circumcision neither of these things matter. The

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keeping of the law is what matters. So you see

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later additions like circumcision and Mosaic law do not make

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a person righteous, especially when the question is the inclusion

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of the gentiles. Bryson may not be aware of this,

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but his dispute. His question was already saw in Acts fifteen,

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when they had the council describing and deciding how gentiles

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could come into the Church, into the Covenant and be

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made right with God. And the decision is that what

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we ought not require anything more than was required of Noah.

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If Noah could be made righteous before God before circumcision

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and before the ceremonial laws given to Moses, then gentiles

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can be in Christ on the basis of the pattern

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of the Covenant given into Noah. It's a very simple argument.

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And what did Jesus say, who hears you? Here's me.

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The Holy Spirit is given in Acts two and Pentecosts.

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That's the spirit that Jesus said in John sixteen he

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would send that would guide the church into all truth.

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And so unless he wants to himself pit Paul and

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the Apostles against what Jesus said, then he needs to

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understand holistic interpretation of the whole Bible. We don't just

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read passages or chapters without understanding the context of the

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entire Bible.

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Speaker 3: Is that it one minute, the.

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Speaker 2: Entire Bible gives us a holistic picture and message from

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Genesis throughout the Covenants, all the way up to the

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New Covenant. You can't understand the totality of the Bible

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without each one of those successive covenants. Paul says in

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Corinthians that every one of those promises, covenant promises, is

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yay in Christ. Christ is the Telos of the law.

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That's why we don't have a temple. That's why we

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don't do animal sacrifices. And so if Bryson had read

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Hebrews or Galatians, he would know that the things that

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he thinks are still applicable are actually fulfilled. And I

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would go even further and say that not only does

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he not keep them, the Orthodox Church actually does still

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keep many of these commands because we have temples. Hebrews

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thirteen says that we have an altar in the churches,

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that those that serve in the tabernac will have no

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right to eat. That means there's still an altar. Peter

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says that we are the Melchizedekian priesthood priests in Christ.

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We still have a priesthood. Our churches are called temples.

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We still have temples.

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Speaker 1: If anybody goes back to my opening statement, he debated

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precisely and exactly how I said he would. He never

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answered the question about Matthew five, and he's not gonna

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tell you why he didn't answer it, But it's because

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he can't now. He went on to imply, for he

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said little twenty one, and I recently watched the video.

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When I asked you the question at the Lave vivenda,

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you definitely said Louke twenty four. I could possibly be

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mistaken with cold fact check that, but you kept talking

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about things being fulfilled. Well, let's go back to Matthew

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five seventeen through twenty one, which I knew was not

415
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gonna get answered. This is why you made this thing

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about the whole Bible and jump straight to Paul, because

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this is what people typically do to try to use

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Paul to argue with Jesus. Jesus said until heaven and

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Earth passed, not one jot or tittle shalling. No Wi's

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passed from the law until all is accomplished. So if

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heaven and Earth has not passed, everything can't be accomplished.

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That's very same temple, and this is read letters, this

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is Jesus himself, and that is in context. So you

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have an issue if you claim these things with a

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field has heaven and earth past yet and then you

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talked about these things about the temple of being destroyed,

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so we can't keep a lot of the commandments. That's

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absolutely correct. You are correct. This is the reason that

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Orthodox Jews do not give animal sacrifices in the temple.

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But your issue is the Tanak have already discussed this

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in Hoseiah and second Samuel, rendering of bulls was replaced

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with prayers of the lips because there was already a

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time where the temple was destroyed, so God had already

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put things in place for these things to be happened.

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But that doesn't then nullify the commandments that are applicable

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to people outside of obviously priests, because a lot of

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the commandments do require a temple a lot, but a

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good amount of them also don't. But that doesn't change

439
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anything out that is changing anything at all. So when

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you say, Jesus, the fulfillment has heaven and earth past, yet,

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Jesus said that's required. So unless you can say that,

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you still have an issue on your hand. And I'm

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sure that's gonna get avoided again. And the reason I

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brought up papiis and Irannius not because I care much

445
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about their judgment. I'm so glad you brought it up

446
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exactly how I thought you would, because you admitted that

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Papiers was the earliest, and we know that because of Iranius,

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because we don't have fragments of writing from Papists, and

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you have one issue. He didn't say he the one

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who said it was written by Matthew. Matter of fact,

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what Papiers said is that the Book of Matthew was

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originally written in Hebrew and people translated the best they could.

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Now there's arguments over what he meant by that, because

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we don't have the full excerpt of what he said.

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But what that shows is people already thought it was Matthew.

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They being thoughts Matthew. This is very early, as you

457
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already said, So to claim that we need the church

458
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to tell us what it is that would be interesting.

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Since people was already reading the Gospels, they were already

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doing it even before Papiists. Obviously that has to be

461
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the case. I find that very very interesting. Well, you

462
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talked about the trenity, that's not the debate. Don't really

463
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care you brought up dude around me twenty eight and

464
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twenty nine. I don't know if you knew that them

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were the exact versions you were bringing up. But the

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last verse of twenty nine said the hidden things belonged

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to the Lord, but the revealed things belong to us

468
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and our children forever that we fulfill all the words

469
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of this Torah, or follow all the words of this Torah.

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That's once again off memory. So I probably got a

471
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word or too wrong. And you said Matthew twenty four

472
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has already happened, But I think you switched it up

473
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a little bit later and said that something's happened to

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something didn't, which I'm glad you did, because Matthew twenty

475
00:26:35,000 --> 00:26:37,759
four literally talks about Christ's return, So unless you're saying

476
00:26:37,839 --> 00:26:42,599
Jesus has already came back, that also wouldn't make sense scripturally. Now,

477
00:26:42,640 --> 00:26:45,559
as far as you taking Paul clearly out of context,

478
00:26:45,559 --> 00:26:47,720
we talked about Galatians and need Abrott to Acts fifteen

479
00:26:48,000 --> 00:26:51,160
and assume that I don't know these things, very sad

480
00:26:51,799 --> 00:26:55,240
because as fifteen is about Paul helping the Gentiles turn

481
00:26:55,359 --> 00:26:57,480
to Christ. And I like that you brought up Noah

482
00:26:57,559 --> 00:27:00,359
because if you see the few laws that they had

483
00:27:00,359 --> 00:27:02,440
to do themselves, you need to figure out what that

484
00:27:02,640 --> 00:27:05,200
is in oral tradition that you got to talk about

485
00:27:05,200 --> 00:27:07,240
so much. But what's beautiful about the Book of Acts

486
00:27:07,440 --> 00:27:09,720
is all these questions that you have are already answered.

487
00:27:09,880 --> 00:27:13,559
Paul himself later in Acts gave it animal sacrifice for

488
00:27:13,759 --> 00:27:16,599
himself and others. And this is after Jesus died and

489
00:27:16,640 --> 00:27:18,880
rose on the cross, and this is after Paul claim

490
00:27:18,920 --> 00:27:20,799
to having set in Jesus. So now you have to

491
00:27:20,880 --> 00:27:23,559
explain to me what you said is true while Paul

492
00:27:23,599 --> 00:27:26,799
gave an animal sacrifice. Secondly, they were trying to kill

493
00:27:26,839 --> 00:27:30,400
Paul because they people were saying that Paul was teaching

494
00:27:30,440 --> 00:27:34,039
against the law. Paul then corrected them and said Paul

495
00:27:34,079 --> 00:27:37,200
that corrected them and said he taught the law perfectly.

496
00:27:38,119 --> 00:27:40,640
So the claims that y'all make about Paul are really

497
00:27:40,680 --> 00:27:42,559
literally the claims that was made in Acts if you

498
00:27:42,599 --> 00:27:45,400
read it, which I find, which I find hilarious. Need

499
00:27:45,480 --> 00:27:48,480
brought up relations and a problem when people read Paul.

500
00:27:48,559 --> 00:27:51,680
The reason why Peter has to tell you how long

501
00:27:51,720 --> 00:27:53,440
I got.

502
00:27:54,039 --> 00:27:56,000
Speaker 3: You have about two and a half minutes.

503
00:27:56,759 --> 00:27:59,160
Speaker 1: Okay, hopefully that's enough. Just stop me. I'll just ended

504
00:27:59,160 --> 00:28:01,079
no matter. But the reason why a lot of people

505
00:28:01,160 --> 00:28:03,559
ignorantly take Paul out of context. I'm not saying that

506
00:28:03,559 --> 00:28:06,680
to be disrespectful. That's the literal language Peter used. Is

507
00:28:06,720 --> 00:28:08,559
because with Paul, you can't read one line here and

508
00:28:08,599 --> 00:28:10,759
one line there. You have to read all five chapters

509
00:28:10,759 --> 00:28:13,079
of Delatians. You have to read all chapters of Romans.

510
00:28:13,240 --> 00:28:15,519
And what that means is Paul is literally the one

511
00:28:15,519 --> 00:28:18,000
in Romans too that said, it is not the heroes

512
00:28:18,000 --> 00:28:19,960
of the law that are righteous before God, but it

513
00:28:20,039 --> 00:28:23,440
is the doers of the law that are justified. And

514
00:28:23,480 --> 00:28:25,400
then he went on to tell you that the Gentiles

515
00:28:25,519 --> 00:28:28,480
kept the law without having the law, but they kept

516
00:28:28,480 --> 00:28:30,960
the requirements of the law, and he said it was

517
00:28:30,960 --> 00:28:33,359
written on their hearts, which is a reference to Jeremiah

518
00:28:33,440 --> 00:28:35,960
thirty one. And then you talk about Galatians. You need

519
00:28:36,000 --> 00:28:38,559
to know what he means because if you read relations too,

520
00:28:38,960 --> 00:28:41,880
he says, you have died to the law and now

521
00:28:41,960 --> 00:28:44,920
you live to God. What does live to God mean?

522
00:28:45,079 --> 00:28:47,960
Because Paul talks about not sinning, how can you sin

523
00:28:48,519 --> 00:28:52,640
if there's no law? Seeing is transgression of the law

524
00:28:52,759 --> 00:28:56,680
that law of Moses. And Paul explains this in Romans six.

525
00:28:56,720 --> 00:28:58,920
If you need to understand what it means, I can

526
00:28:58,960 --> 00:29:00,720
help you out Romans the way, I have nothing on

527
00:29:00,720 --> 00:29:02,559
my screen anything. This is all off memory. By the way,

528
00:29:03,480 --> 00:29:06,079
Roman six he literally tells you what he means. When

529
00:29:06,079 --> 00:29:07,880
he says you're not under the law or you're dead

530
00:29:07,880 --> 00:29:10,759
to the law, he's literally saying you don't sin anymore.

531
00:29:10,880 --> 00:29:14,640
He explicitly states this in Roman six. The reason you

532
00:29:14,640 --> 00:29:16,400
were not under the law because he said law of

533
00:29:16,519 --> 00:29:18,720
the law is the knowledge of sin. So if you

534
00:29:18,960 --> 00:29:21,160
died the same way Christ died, which is what Paul

535
00:29:21,200 --> 00:29:24,519
says verbati in Roman six, then you are also resurrected

536
00:29:24,519 --> 00:29:28,359
in the same way Jesus was resurrected. And what that

537
00:29:28,519 --> 00:29:31,519
means is you no longer sin, your body parts are

538
00:29:31,559 --> 00:29:35,160
no longer used for unrighteousness. Sin no longer rains in

539
00:29:35,200 --> 00:29:37,480
your immortal body. Then he literally tells you that's what

540
00:29:37,599 --> 00:29:40,119
not being under the law means anymore. That's why he

541
00:29:40,160 --> 00:29:42,519
also said, like I said a few chapters earlier, that

542
00:29:43,240 --> 00:29:46,599
gentiles kept the law without having it. So, uh, I

543
00:29:46,640 --> 00:29:48,519
don't know if you understand what Paul is saying, but

544
00:29:48,559 --> 00:29:49,720
I hope, I hope I helped the band.

545
00:29:50,519 --> 00:29:54,759
Speaker 2: Yeah, I mean the level of reading comprehension here and

546
00:29:55,519 --> 00:30:00,559
understanding what has been argued, is it's sad. I feel

547
00:30:00,559 --> 00:30:05,240
like it's just flying past people's heads here. So I

548
00:30:05,279 --> 00:30:09,119
didn't say that everything was fulfilled in the temple being destroyed.

549
00:30:10,000 --> 00:30:12,680
I said that heaven and earth passed away in the

550
00:30:12,759 --> 00:30:15,680
sense of Christ's coming in judgment. That coming in judgment

551
00:30:15,799 --> 00:30:18,160
is what he mentions in Luke twenty one in Matthew

552
00:30:18,200 --> 00:30:21,359
twenty four to the generation standing in front of him,

553
00:30:21,599 --> 00:30:24,400
that they would see these signs. And yeah, I'm very

554
00:30:24,400 --> 00:30:28,079
familiar with the covenant curses in Deuteronomy and Leviticus, and

555
00:30:28,119 --> 00:30:30,720
those curses are applied in the Book of Revelation because

556
00:30:30,720 --> 00:30:34,440
every one of those covenant curses rolls out upon the

557
00:30:34,480 --> 00:30:37,799
city that's identified in the Book of Revelation as the

558
00:30:37,839 --> 00:30:40,880
place where our Lord was crucified. So, in other words,

559
00:30:40,920 --> 00:30:44,119
the texts that you're talking about are referring to actually

560
00:30:44,119 --> 00:30:46,519
the destruction of Jerusalem. They're not talking about the end

561
00:30:46,559 --> 00:30:50,200
of the world. But they have a fulfillment also mirrored

562
00:30:50,559 --> 00:30:52,759
wise at the end of the world. And we know

563
00:30:52,880 --> 00:30:56,559
this from the abomination of desolation, which is cited in

564
00:30:56,680 --> 00:31:00,359
the Book of Daniel and in the Maccabees know that

565
00:31:00,480 --> 00:31:05,440
abomination of desolation already happened. Did you know it already happened.

566
00:31:05,480 --> 00:31:07,799
And so when Jesus is referring to it, he's saying

567
00:31:07,839 --> 00:31:10,200
that the same thing that happened in the destruction of

568
00:31:10,240 --> 00:31:12,519
the temple the first time and in the defilement of

569
00:31:12,599 --> 00:31:14,880
the temple of the Maccabees, that it's going to happen

570
00:31:14,920 --> 00:31:18,519
again in this day. This generation will not pass away

571
00:31:19,000 --> 00:31:21,599
until all of these things are fulfilled. So you just

572
00:31:21,640 --> 00:31:24,400
simply ignored and didn't listen to anything that I said.

573
00:31:24,599 --> 00:31:29,559
And you don't comprehend partial predism because you confuse it

574
00:31:29,599 --> 00:31:34,680
with full preadism. When the Book of Hebrews describes and earth,

575
00:31:34,720 --> 00:31:36,960
the heavens, and earth being rolled up like a scroll

576
00:31:37,039 --> 00:31:41,200
and passing away, the book is describing it from the

577
00:31:41,240 --> 00:31:45,440
citations and texts like Isaiah, and it's saying that when

578
00:31:45,480 --> 00:31:48,720
the temple is removed, that will be the fulfillment of

579
00:31:48,720 --> 00:31:51,359
these things. You see, the whole Book of Hebrews is

580
00:31:51,359 --> 00:31:56,319
about the passing away of the Mosaic administration in Israel.

581
00:31:56,839 --> 00:31:59,240
And you don't even apparently know that in seventy a d.

582
00:31:59,680 --> 00:32:03,559
That's what happened. It was destroyed, and that the Covenant

583
00:32:03,599 --> 00:32:07,599
went to the Gentiles Jesus says in the Gospels that

584
00:32:08,000 --> 00:32:12,079
this nation will lose the kingdom and it will go

585
00:32:12,200 --> 00:32:15,799
to the Gentiles. That's the Gentile Church that occurred in

586
00:32:15,839 --> 00:32:18,680
the first, second, third, fourth, fifth, sixth centuries, which, by

587
00:32:18,680 --> 00:32:21,039
the way, you don't have any connection to. Your sect

588
00:32:21,119 --> 00:32:24,279
doesn't exist back then. You don't have any connection to

589
00:32:24,319 --> 00:32:27,000
any of those people because your church isn't a church,

590
00:32:27,039 --> 00:32:30,000
a made up thing, you see. But Jesus said that

591
00:32:30,079 --> 00:32:32,559
the gates of Hell would not prevail against his kingdom.

592
00:32:33,119 --> 00:32:35,200
His kingdom was set up in the apostles that he

593
00:32:35,319 --> 00:32:38,000
established who he said, he that hears you hears me.

594
00:32:38,599 --> 00:32:44,240
Who do you think ordained Irenaeus and Papias. Jesus's apostles

595
00:32:44,599 --> 00:32:49,839
ordained these men, that succession comes from them. And you said, again,

596
00:32:50,359 --> 00:32:52,960
I'm glad that you cited Irenaeus and Papias because they

597
00:32:53,000 --> 00:32:56,279
cited the gospels. That wasn't my challenge to you. The

598
00:32:56,400 --> 00:32:58,839
challenge was, why, on your view are we supposed to

599
00:32:58,920 --> 00:33:01,359
care what pappious or irres people that you think are

600
00:33:01,359 --> 00:33:06,599
heretics say. Why would a heretic tell us the Bible

601
00:33:06,680 --> 00:33:08,880
and its books in your view? Please tell me that

602
00:33:08,920 --> 00:33:10,920
I want to know when we get to the next section.

603
00:33:11,559 --> 00:33:15,319
Because it's pick and choose, it's arbitrary. Paul says, the

604
00:33:15,319 --> 00:33:17,640
definition of a heretic is a person that picks and chooses.

605
00:33:18,200 --> 00:33:20,559
Your whole approach here is, I'm going to pick and

606
00:33:20,599 --> 00:33:23,799
choose the sections of Jesus that I think are true

607
00:33:24,039 --> 00:33:27,119
because it aligns with my presuppositions. And it's actually you

608
00:33:27,240 --> 00:33:31,160
that sets Paul against Jesus. What I said harmonizes Paul

609
00:33:31,160 --> 00:33:35,160
and Jesus. We can't take verses or sections or people

610
00:33:35,240 --> 00:33:38,960
and pit them against one another. Paul did a sacrifice

611
00:33:39,039 --> 00:33:41,480
because the temple was not destroyed yet, and that was

612
00:33:41,519 --> 00:33:45,240
what we call a transition period that's done. When the

613
00:33:45,279 --> 00:33:49,119
temple's done. No longer do Jews or Christians worship in

614
00:33:49,160 --> 00:33:51,720
the temple because it's gone. That was the sign that's

615
00:33:51,720 --> 00:33:55,759
fulfilled in Daniel nine. Daniel nine says, when the Messiah comes,

616
00:33:56,039 --> 00:34:00,160
the temple's gone, eternal righteousness comes in. But in the

617
00:34:00,200 --> 00:34:04,519
Testament we have references to sacrifices that continue on, like

618
00:34:04,640 --> 00:34:08,800
the sacrifice of the Eucharist, which is in every Orthodox church,

619
00:34:09,320 --> 00:34:11,840
which has all of those things that you think you need,

620
00:34:12,480 --> 00:34:16,960
temple sacrifice, incense, vestments, all of these things that you're

621
00:34:17,039 --> 00:34:20,920
really into, which are in the Old Testament, they're in

622
00:34:20,960 --> 00:34:24,760
the Orthodox Church. It is the continuity with those things.

623
00:34:25,360 --> 00:34:27,559
You don't have any continuity with any of that. You're

624
00:34:27,599 --> 00:34:32,639
relying again on our saints Papias, Aaron Aus for getting

625
00:34:33,079 --> 00:34:35,920
the canon itself hit or you don't have any criteria

626
00:34:35,960 --> 00:34:39,519
for why I'm supposed to accept Matthew. Your criteria was

627
00:34:39,880 --> 00:34:43,920
because Papias cited it. So on what basis is one

628
00:34:44,000 --> 00:34:46,679
church father citing something, tell me that that means it's

629
00:34:46,679 --> 00:34:49,559
inspired in part of the Bible. The Bible was decided

630
00:34:49,599 --> 00:34:53,199
as a canon centuries later. So all of your citations

631
00:34:53,239 --> 00:34:55,639
of Paul or Revelation or any of this stuff is

632
00:34:55,679 --> 00:34:58,519
simply your misunderstanding. It's totally out of a chord with

633
00:34:58,559 --> 00:35:01,440
anything in the first years of the Church. So if

634
00:35:01,440 --> 00:35:04,960
you don't have any representatives of your views in those

635
00:35:05,000 --> 00:35:08,840
time periods, then you're what's called a sectarian. You're called

636
00:35:08,840 --> 00:35:11,719
a heretic. And I know the Old Testament very well.

637
00:35:12,039 --> 00:35:14,639
I gave you multiple verses about the deity of Christ

638
00:35:14,840 --> 00:35:18,039
in the Old Testament, Jesus giving the Law to Moses.

639
00:35:18,280 --> 00:35:20,320
You ignored all that because you don't want to go there.

640
00:35:20,360 --> 00:35:22,880
You don't want to go into Theophanes because that shows

641
00:35:22,880 --> 00:35:26,400
the purpose of the law. If there's a temple rebuilt,

642
00:35:26,719 --> 00:35:29,880
are you going to go to Israel and offer animal sacrifices.

643
00:35:29,960 --> 00:35:32,639
I know that you don't think it's necessary. I'm very

644
00:35:32,679 --> 00:35:34,760
aware of what rabbinical Judaism did, and I know it

645
00:35:34,800 --> 00:35:38,159
goes back to Ezra and when there wasn't a temple,

646
00:35:38,519 --> 00:35:41,760
they said, we can offer it sacrifices a prayer. Okay,

647
00:35:41,960 --> 00:35:45,559
So then you're admitting that it's not absolutely necessary for

648
00:35:45,599 --> 00:35:49,480
salvation that we do animal sacrifices. But you're missing the

649
00:35:49,599 --> 00:35:52,599
obvious point of entire books of the New Testament, which

650
00:35:52,639 --> 00:35:54,960
is that you're an apostate and a heretic if you

651
00:35:55,079 --> 00:35:59,159
go back to doing those things. That's explicitly what Hebrew says.

652
00:35:59,559 --> 00:36:02,800
It says you've lost your salvation. Now in your case,

653
00:36:03,119 --> 00:36:06,280
I'm not knocking you on a personal level, but you're

654
00:36:06,320 --> 00:36:08,280
not at all even in the Church. You have no

655
00:36:08,320 --> 00:36:12,360
connection to the branch, to the vine, to the sheep fold,

656
00:36:12,800 --> 00:36:16,199
to the tree, to the Covenant. The Covenant is given

657
00:36:16,239 --> 00:36:19,480
to the gentiles. Jesus says in that passage about the

658
00:36:19,480 --> 00:36:22,519
destruction of Jerusalem. All these things will come upon this

659
00:36:22,599 --> 00:36:25,320
generation the people standing in front of him. You will

660
00:36:25,320 --> 00:36:28,400
see the temple raised to the ground. He says, that

661
00:36:28,480 --> 00:36:32,400
happened in seventy eighty. That removes all of your stupid

662
00:36:32,400 --> 00:36:36,159
proof texts about fleeing on the Sabbath and doing this

663
00:36:36,239 --> 00:36:39,559
and that. The Temple is the Church. That's why Peter

664
00:36:39,639 --> 00:36:42,519
says the Church is the temple. Jesus is the cornerstone.

665
00:36:43,000 --> 00:36:45,559
The marriage Supper of the lamb that's described in Revelation

666
00:36:45,639 --> 00:36:49,440
five and six is the divine liturgy. It's the Eucharist.

667
00:36:49,679 --> 00:36:54,239
What does John c when he looks into heaven, vestiments, incense, priests.

668
00:36:54,920 --> 00:36:56,840
That's the Orthodox Church on earth.

669
00:36:57,199 --> 00:37:00,880
Speaker 1: Okay, I find a funny the two things you said. Now,

670
00:37:00,920 --> 00:37:02,719
we talked about reading comprehension, and you said, I'm not

671
00:37:02,760 --> 00:37:05,360
listening to you, which is funny because objectively speaking, you're

672
00:37:05,400 --> 00:37:07,800
not listening to me because everything you have, the stuff

673
00:37:07,800 --> 00:37:09,960
you claimed that, I thought, I've already explained it to you.

674
00:37:10,320 --> 00:37:11,920
The Paul. I find it funny, and I did this

675
00:37:12,000 --> 00:37:14,280
on purpose. It's funny. As poscriptures you brought up, I

676
00:37:14,320 --> 00:37:16,480
explained it to you. Not only did you not debucket,

677
00:37:16,519 --> 00:37:18,400
I did that as a show of faith in hopes

678
00:37:18,599 --> 00:37:20,960
that you would answer my question about Matthew five, and

679
00:37:21,000 --> 00:37:23,559
you still avoiding it as I predicted, what would happen?

680
00:37:24,480 --> 00:37:28,159
Also about papers, I answer, you just didn't like it. No,

681
00:37:28,239 --> 00:37:30,360
you never answered because I asked you it has Heaven

682
00:37:30,400 --> 00:37:32,199
on earth past and oh matter of fact, I say,

683
00:37:32,239 --> 00:37:33,599
heaven earth? Did you say he have nerve?

684
00:37:33,639 --> 00:37:35,440
Speaker 2: Did I answer? Yeah?

685
00:37:35,480 --> 00:37:38,480
Speaker 1: I do apologist for that clent. You said heaven and

686
00:37:38,480 --> 00:37:40,360
nerve did past? Show me a scripture that said Heaven

687
00:37:40,360 --> 00:37:42,719
and Earth has already passed? Show me any Bible scripture

688
00:37:42,960 --> 00:37:44,119
that says that period.

689
00:37:44,199 --> 00:37:46,880
Speaker 2: Yeah. So the Book of Hebrews in Hebrews one, and

690
00:37:46,960 --> 00:37:49,039
I'm saying that the Book of Hebrews is about the

691
00:37:49,159 --> 00:37:52,000
removal of the earthly administration of the temple.

692
00:37:54,079 --> 00:37:56,079
Speaker 1: Show me when the Bible says heaven and Earth has passed.

693
00:37:56,119 --> 00:37:58,239
Speaker 2: I just said the Book of Hebrews, Hebrews one, talks

694
00:37:58,280 --> 00:38:00,719
about having the earth passing away. The book is about

695
00:38:00,840 --> 00:38:02,039
the removal of the temple.

696
00:38:02,880 --> 00:38:04,559
Speaker 1: So I just want to be clear. Are you claiming

697
00:38:04,599 --> 00:38:06,679
that Hebrews one said heaven and Earth has already passed away?

698
00:38:06,920 --> 00:38:09,840
Speaker 2: It says the removal of the temple is the sign

699
00:38:10,159 --> 00:38:11,559
of heaven and Earth passing away.

700
00:38:11,880 --> 00:38:13,519
Speaker 1: I want, I want, I want the words heaven and

701
00:38:13,599 --> 00:38:16,760
Earth passed, passing away because in the second how the Bible.

702
00:38:16,519 --> 00:38:20,199
Speaker 2: Works, that's how you oh it is though, that's how

703
00:38:20,320 --> 00:38:24,039
he think it works. Heretics think literal. Okay, So so

704
00:38:24,199 --> 00:38:26,199
we only believe what's explicit in the Bible right.

705
00:38:28,280 --> 00:38:31,320
Speaker 1: Right now, Ask the question. Your best answer is to

706
00:38:31,320 --> 00:38:34,679
say you can't find it and that and say there's nothing.

707
00:38:35,199 --> 00:38:39,440
Speaker 2: Hebrews one, it's about the removal of the heavenly administration

708
00:38:41,159 --> 00:38:43,639
on the whole book is about that.

709
00:38:44,199 --> 00:38:45,920
Speaker 1: So tell me the verse, and he was he was

710
00:38:45,920 --> 00:38:47,800
one of a pretty short chapter. Tell me the verse

711
00:38:47,840 --> 00:38:50,960
in Hebrews One that says heaven on Earth has already passed, that.

712
00:38:51,440 --> 00:38:53,599
Speaker 2: Heaven and our earth will pass away. It'll be rolled

713
00:38:53,679 --> 00:38:54,440
up like a scroll.

714
00:38:55,360 --> 00:38:57,400
Speaker 1: Yes, Heaven it will pass away. Talk about talk about

715
00:38:57,400 --> 00:38:57,760
the future.

716
00:38:58,519 --> 00:39:01,159
Speaker 2: That's not well, he is just talking about the destruction

717
00:39:01,199 --> 00:39:02,440
of the Temple, which is still in the future.

718
00:39:03,079 --> 00:39:08,159
Speaker 1: Hey, so real quick though, accident rolled up is what is.

719
00:39:08,280 --> 00:39:12,039
Speaker 2: Meant in the temple administration being destroyed. Because the temple

720
00:39:12,159 --> 00:39:14,159
is heaven on earth. You understand, it's a symbol of

721
00:39:14,239 --> 00:39:15,679
the whole universe. The three heavens.

722
00:39:15,800 --> 00:39:17,920
Speaker 1: Yeah, so I find an interest. So you're not listening,

723
00:39:18,000 --> 00:39:22,079
so you just boil past but across the examination, Yeah,

724
00:39:22,119 --> 00:39:23,639
which is cool, But just just real gized, I want

725
00:39:23,639 --> 00:39:25,360
to read this Bible verse real quate Second Peter ten.

726
00:39:25,760 --> 00:39:27,840
But the day day of the Lord will come like

727
00:39:27,920 --> 00:39:32,880
a thief, in which the heavens will pass away with

728
00:39:33,079 --> 00:39:35,760
a roar, and the elements will be destroyed with intense heat,

729
00:39:35,840 --> 00:39:38,840
and the earth and its works will be discovered. And

730
00:39:38,920 --> 00:39:42,440
then it tells you again later in Second Peter, beautifully

731
00:39:42,519 --> 00:39:45,519
written how it told you that heaven and earth you

732
00:39:45,800 --> 00:39:47,199
need to be looking for a signe of a new

733
00:39:47,239 --> 00:39:49,079
heaven and Earth. And then it tells you again the

734
00:39:49,159 --> 00:39:51,559
revelation of twenty one that's talking about when Jesus coming back.

735
00:39:52,000 --> 00:39:54,280
So there's no it will be fine if you just

736
00:39:54,280 --> 00:39:56,079
admit there's no verse that says that that'd be great, though.

737
00:39:56,119 --> 00:39:58,639
Speaker 2: No, I just think you have a misunderstanding based on

738
00:39:58,800 --> 00:40:02,039
not having a canonical interpretation of the entirety of the message.

739
00:40:02,280 --> 00:40:04,880
The entirety of the message is about the symbolism of

740
00:40:04,960 --> 00:40:07,679
the temple being taken away and being destroyed. So you

741
00:40:07,800 --> 00:40:12,440
understand that when Paul talks about the base elements. That's

742
00:40:12,559 --> 00:40:15,199
what Hebrews is talking about, in the base elements of

743
00:40:15,199 --> 00:40:18,800
the administration of the temple, circumcision, the show Bred, all

744
00:40:18,840 --> 00:40:21,760
of those things are being taken away, rolled up, and

745
00:40:21,880 --> 00:40:24,880
destroyed in seventy eighty. That's what the Book of Revelation

746
00:40:25,039 --> 00:40:27,639
is about. Guess what. That's why Revelation says these things

747
00:40:27,639 --> 00:40:30,480
are soon to come to pass. You know, John wrote

748
00:40:30,559 --> 00:40:33,639
that to actual churches in Asia Minor. Do you understand

749
00:40:33,679 --> 00:40:36,239
that like some of those churches are still with us today,

750
00:40:36,280 --> 00:40:38,880
they still exist. They're Orthodox churches like at Ephesus. Right,

751
00:40:39,559 --> 00:40:43,039
So John wrote a letter to a church in his

752
00:40:43,199 --> 00:40:45,760
day in Ephesus. I believe he's writing before seventy eight,

753
00:40:46,159 --> 00:40:48,000
and he says the things in the Book of Revelation

754
00:40:48,199 --> 00:40:51,519
are soon to come to pass. And it describes a

755
00:40:51,639 --> 00:40:55,880
destruction of a city where Jesus was crucified. That's Jerusalem,

756
00:40:56,079 --> 00:40:59,199
that happened in seventy eight. So I want to go

757
00:40:59,320 --> 00:41:02,440
back to in my cross examination the question of your

758
00:41:03,079 --> 00:41:05,880
explanation as to why we're supposed to accept Matthew, because

759
00:41:05,920 --> 00:41:08,719
everything you say relies on your argument here on Matthew,

760
00:41:09,119 --> 00:41:11,360
you said Poppyius and Irenaeus. Why am I supposed to

761
00:41:11,400 --> 00:41:13,119
care what papyist and arnea said? How does that tell

762
00:41:13,159 --> 00:41:14,719
me it's inspired and authoritative?

763
00:41:16,199 --> 00:41:20,000
Speaker 1: Uh? I'm I can answer that again like I answered

764
00:41:20,000 --> 00:41:21,840
it before. You know the reason I brought it up.

765
00:41:22,039 --> 00:41:25,719
The reason I brought up Papius and Eranius specifically is

766
00:41:25,800 --> 00:41:27,920
because how you admit it. And I've already said this,

767
00:41:28,000 --> 00:41:30,320
by the way, but you already concede at the point

768
00:41:30,519 --> 00:41:35,199
that Papius is the earliest earliest person to even talk

769
00:41:35,199 --> 00:41:35,840
about the God.

770
00:41:36,559 --> 00:41:38,559
Speaker 2: Early tell us that it's authoritative and supposed to be

771
00:41:38,599 --> 00:41:38,960
in the canon.

772
00:41:39,039 --> 00:41:42,719
Speaker 1: That doesn't prove anything, just assuming earlier that talked about it,

773
00:41:42,840 --> 00:41:43,840
and you're admitting that.

774
00:41:45,199 --> 00:41:47,280
Speaker 2: It's supposed to be in the canon of scripture.

775
00:41:48,480 --> 00:41:50,880
Speaker 1: You're admitting that pap has had that Matthew was originally

776
00:41:50,920 --> 00:41:52,960
hit written in Hebrew and people interpreted the best they

777
00:41:53,039 --> 00:41:53,599
could correct.

778
00:41:53,920 --> 00:41:56,159
Speaker 2: You're just stating facts about the book. I want to

779
00:41:56,199 --> 00:41:57,760
know how I'm supposed to know that that means it's

780
00:41:57,760 --> 00:41:58,880
in the cannon and authorites.

781
00:41:58,960 --> 00:42:00,920
Speaker 1: So as as I say previously when I brought it

782
00:42:01,000 --> 00:42:03,239
up the other time. The reason why that's important is

783
00:42:03,440 --> 00:42:06,960
not because he's claiming something is authoritative or not is

784
00:42:07,000 --> 00:42:09,199
because if the way it is read, and of course

785
00:42:09,239 --> 00:42:11,239
we have fragments, as I said before, we don't have

786
00:42:11,320 --> 00:42:13,480
the full excerpts, but because of that we know that

787
00:42:13,559 --> 00:42:15,239
it was already viewed that way before him.

788
00:42:15,280 --> 00:42:18,639
Speaker 2: He's who You keep appealing to things that don't actually

789
00:42:18,679 --> 00:42:20,599
tell me the criteria. How do you know that's the

790
00:42:20,719 --> 00:42:21,400
right criteria?

791
00:42:22,440 --> 00:42:23,480
Speaker 1: That's what the right criteria?

792
00:42:23,519 --> 00:42:23,559
Speaker 3: That?

793
00:42:23,639 --> 00:42:28,559
Speaker 2: What is the right criteria for canonicity, for authoritation, for authoritative.

794
00:42:29,039 --> 00:42:31,280
Speaker 1: It's not about the candidate. This was before any canion,

795
00:42:31,760 --> 00:42:34,480
I'm telling I'm telling you that. So so I'm telling

796
00:42:34,519 --> 00:42:37,000
you that if Papeis was the earliest person to talk

797
00:42:37,000 --> 00:42:37,880
about as.

798
00:42:37,800 --> 00:42:41,119
Speaker 2: How do we know that early? Makes it that you

799
00:42:41,280 --> 00:42:43,239
just keep assuming the argument it's circular.

800
00:42:43,320 --> 00:42:46,320
Speaker 1: No, you're not listening. You're not listening, And I don't

801
00:42:46,360 --> 00:42:47,440
know how you're.

802
00:42:47,239 --> 00:42:50,039
Speaker 2: Not understanding what epistemic criteria is. I just want to

803
00:42:50,079 --> 00:42:51,760
know how you know that, what's the basis for that?

804
00:42:51,840 --> 00:42:53,000
You just keep saying what's earlier?

805
00:42:53,519 --> 00:42:55,920
Speaker 1: Wait, well, no, I said that Papiers. You want you

806
00:42:56,000 --> 00:42:58,880
said this that Papeis was the earliest person talking about

807
00:42:58,880 --> 00:42:59,320
the gospels.

808
00:42:59,320 --> 00:43:03,559
Speaker 2: Correct know to talk about Matthew being the disciple of Jesus.

809
00:43:05,679 --> 00:43:08,760
Speaker 1: Who talked about the Gospels earlier than Papeous.

810
00:43:10,039 --> 00:43:12,000
Speaker 2: It doesn't matter because none of these things tell me

811
00:43:12,079 --> 00:43:13,039
the criteria to know.

812
00:43:13,119 --> 00:43:16,280
Speaker 1: What makes why not just admit? Why not just admit

813
00:43:16,360 --> 00:43:17,840
what you've already admitted. I don't even I don't even

814
00:43:17,840 --> 00:43:18,679
know what this concept has to.

815
00:43:18,639 --> 00:43:20,480
Speaker 2: Be, because you're avoiding an obvious question.

816
00:43:20,559 --> 00:43:22,400
Speaker 1: I want to know how I'm answering your question.

817
00:43:23,760 --> 00:43:26,920
Speaker 2: You're relying on Orthodox Church. You're relying on Orthodox Church tradition.

818
00:43:27,519 --> 00:43:29,800
Speaker 1: The reason I brought Papious up? You asked me a

819
00:43:29,880 --> 00:43:31,440
question about why I brought him up. I'm about to

820
00:43:31,480 --> 00:43:33,119
tell you again why I brought him up.

821
00:43:33,159 --> 00:43:35,079
Speaker 2: You don't have to rehearse it. We all know what happened.

822
00:43:35,119 --> 00:43:38,519
You're just avoiding the question. You know what?

823
00:43:39,159 --> 00:43:40,960
Speaker 1: Never mind, I don't care about it no more. Now

824
00:43:41,360 --> 00:43:42,079
I try to do it.

825
00:43:42,840 --> 00:43:46,559
Speaker 2: It's okay filibustering to burn out the time and not

826
00:43:46,679 --> 00:43:48,880
answering the question, why is that aative?

827
00:43:49,840 --> 00:43:52,360
Speaker 1: Why is it? How can I burn out time? If

828
00:43:52,360 --> 00:43:54,199
I purposely tell him to pause the time, it don't

829
00:43:54,199 --> 00:43:55,679
start my time? How can I? How can I burn

830
00:43:55,679 --> 00:43:55,880
it out?

831
00:43:56,159 --> 00:43:58,719
Speaker 3: We'll go to Bryson's two minutes for for his cross

832
00:43:58,760 --> 00:43:59,760
exam and then we'll go back to you.

833
00:44:00,239 --> 00:44:01,840
Speaker 1: Sure, thank you, And I'm just going back to the

834
00:44:01,880 --> 00:44:04,119
same thing. I reread Hebrews One to make sure I

835
00:44:04,119 --> 00:44:05,840
wasn't missing nothing, even though like I know the book

836
00:44:05,840 --> 00:44:08,679
of Hebrews, and I knew I wasn't literally not zilch,

837
00:44:08,840 --> 00:44:12,559
absolute diss zero, and Hebrew one even implies that heaven

838
00:44:12,559 --> 00:44:14,440
and earth has passed. So I will ask you again,

839
00:44:14,559 --> 00:44:16,239
and all I want for you to admit the truth

840
00:44:16,280 --> 00:44:18,440
so we can have a not as conversation on his dialogue.

841
00:44:18,960 --> 00:44:22,400
Can you admit that nowhere in the Bible doesn't say

842
00:44:22,440 --> 00:44:24,079
that heaven and earth has already passed? Can you at

843
00:44:24,159 --> 00:44:27,199
least admit that sense? And I'm not saying you can't

844
00:44:27,239 --> 00:44:29,760
believe that it has passed. I'm just saying, can you

845
00:44:29,920 --> 00:44:33,039
admit that nothing in the scripture says heaven and earth

846
00:44:33,079 --> 00:44:33,760
has already passed?

847
00:44:34,639 --> 00:44:36,800
Speaker 2: Sorry, I was muted there. So Hebrews the One says

848
00:44:37,320 --> 00:44:40,360
heaven and earth will pass away. Your work will not

849
00:44:40,480 --> 00:44:43,280
pass away. They will perish, They will grow old like

850
00:44:43,360 --> 00:44:46,320
a garment, like a cloak. You will roll them up.

851
00:44:46,840 --> 00:44:49,280
So I just cited the passes that you said, wasn't there.

852
00:44:49,400 --> 00:44:51,400
It is there, and I'm saying that it's about the

853
00:44:51,480 --> 00:44:53,679
destruction of the temple. Now you have a different interpretation,

854
00:44:54,280 --> 00:44:57,079
and I'm just simply pointing out your interpretation number one

855
00:44:57,199 --> 00:44:59,920
doesn't make any sense because you pitted Paul against Jesus.

856
00:45:00,639 --> 00:45:02,840
But you didn't tell me why I'm supposed to follow Matthew.

857
00:45:03,199 --> 00:45:05,039
Why is Matthew authoritative?

858
00:45:05,039 --> 00:45:06,760
Speaker 1: And yours my time? It's my time. You can you

859
00:45:06,800 --> 00:45:09,559
can reask your question again like I react, my best

860
00:45:09,559 --> 00:45:11,639
says heaven will pass. Like bro, this is not like

861
00:45:12,199 --> 00:45:13,639
you've been unnecessarily difficult.

862
00:45:14,519 --> 00:45:18,199
Speaker 2: You're not aware of basic positions and exegu.

863
00:45:19,559 --> 00:45:20,719
Speaker 1: Let me repeat myself again.

864
00:45:20,800 --> 00:45:23,599
Speaker 3: I said, who said it wasn't even there?

865
00:45:23,760 --> 00:45:24,800
Speaker 2: I cited you the text.

866
00:45:24,920 --> 00:45:28,400
Speaker 1: It's no listen what I say it is. You can

867
00:45:28,519 --> 00:45:31,719
have your belief and your interpretation of something. I'm just asking,

868
00:45:31,800 --> 00:45:34,199
can you admit that nothing in the scripture says that

869
00:45:34,320 --> 00:45:35,920
heaven and nerve has already passed?

870
00:45:36,239 --> 00:45:39,480
Speaker 2: You don't know anybody interprets the Bible. Only heretics do

871
00:45:39,559 --> 00:45:41,639
that where they think that literally a phrase has to

872
00:45:41,719 --> 00:45:44,159
be explicitly expelled out according.

873
00:45:43,800 --> 00:45:45,559
Speaker 1: To your I'm not saying that has to be your

874
00:45:45,599 --> 00:45:48,440
criteria I'm just asking you. Did You said it difficult,

875
00:45:48,599 --> 00:45:49,400
That's what you said.

876
00:45:49,480 --> 00:45:51,840
Speaker 2: Your argument is that it has to be explicitly there

877
00:45:52,360 --> 00:45:53,679
where Where does the Bible.

878
00:45:53,679 --> 00:45:55,639
Speaker 1: I'm asking you a question, where does the say it?

879
00:45:55,639 --> 00:45:57,719
Anywhere it does say it.

880
00:45:57,840 --> 00:45:58,800
Speaker 2: I just gave you the text.

881
00:46:00,840 --> 00:46:02,119
Speaker 1: Hey, bro, you can hear.

882
00:46:04,480 --> 00:46:06,320
Speaker 2: Yeah. So I'm gonna put my question again to you

883
00:46:06,360 --> 00:46:10,400
in a very simple way. You tell me on your view,

884
00:46:11,639 --> 00:46:17,239
why is the Book of Matthew authoritative and inspired? In

885
00:46:17,360 --> 00:46:21,159
your view? Given that the way that we know that,

886
00:46:21,360 --> 00:46:24,719
the only way we know that is via tradition that

887
00:46:24,840 --> 00:46:26,280
comes from the Orthodox Church.

888
00:46:29,679 --> 00:46:32,400
Speaker 1: Well, I think you're having a preconceived notion right here,

889
00:46:32,519 --> 00:46:35,360
meaning I've never said anything about that about tradition, So

890
00:46:35,440 --> 00:46:36,760
I find that weird that you brought it up.

891
00:46:36,760 --> 00:46:44,039
Speaker 2: But you appeal to papeists. Okay, you appeal to papeists, Okay.

892
00:46:43,960 --> 00:46:45,239
Speaker 1: Just as I said Isa.

893
00:46:46,639 --> 00:46:46,760
Speaker 3: Did.

894
00:46:48,320 --> 00:46:51,320
Speaker 1: The reason the reason I brought up Papiis is because

895
00:46:51,400 --> 00:46:56,639
it proves that even before Papiis people already viewed the

896
00:46:56,719 --> 00:46:57,440
Book of Math.

897
00:46:59,280 --> 00:47:01,840
Speaker 2: That doesn't prove anything. It just proves that it doesn't

898
00:47:01,880 --> 00:47:04,519
prove that it's authoritative and inspired. That people believed it.

899
00:47:04,719 --> 00:47:07,320
People believe false Gospels are a thartative and inspired Why

900
00:47:07,320 --> 00:47:08,079
don't we follow that that?

901
00:47:08,360 --> 00:47:11,320
Speaker 1: That's part of Irania's arguments that people were believing in

902
00:47:11,719 --> 00:47:14,239
false gospels. So correct. I'm not disagreeing with that either.

903
00:47:14,679 --> 00:47:14,880
We know.

904
00:47:15,199 --> 00:47:15,679
Speaker 2: How do we know?

905
00:47:17,119 --> 00:47:18,159
Speaker 1: I just said it.

906
00:47:18,360 --> 00:47:20,920
Speaker 2: No, you didn't. You're not because the earliest you don't

907
00:47:20,960 --> 00:47:21,440
have an answer.

908
00:47:22,519 --> 00:47:25,559
Speaker 1: It's because the earliest that we can go back in

909
00:47:25,760 --> 00:47:27,800
history that we can see what our own two eyes

910
00:47:28,199 --> 00:47:31,280
churches were already using the God that that's the.

911
00:47:31,320 --> 00:47:33,719
Speaker 2: Right Begging the question, how do we know that that's

912
00:47:33,760 --> 00:47:36,599
the right criteria for canonicity because an old church did it?

913
00:47:37,239 --> 00:47:40,920
Speaker 1: So no, we know because the God again that the

914
00:47:41,039 --> 00:47:44,280
Gospels were already viewed as inspired by.

915
00:47:44,320 --> 00:47:46,679
Speaker 2: Begging the question, you're asking the question of what the

916
00:47:46,760 --> 00:47:50,119
gospels are and you're citing the gospels. That's a fallacy.

917
00:47:51,440 --> 00:47:52,119
Speaker 1: What is a fallacy?

918
00:47:52,199 --> 00:47:52,480
Speaker 2: Again?

919
00:47:53,199 --> 00:47:58,360
Speaker 1: Are you all to the question question? Are you added in?

920
00:47:59,239 --> 00:48:00,000
I'm feeling about you.

921
00:48:00,079 --> 00:48:03,239
Speaker 2: You're citing gospels about how we know what the Gospels are?

922
00:48:03,480 --> 00:48:04,360
That's a fallacy of.

923
00:48:04,400 --> 00:48:05,079
Speaker 1: Circular That's not.

924
00:48:06,559 --> 00:48:08,119
Speaker 3: Bryson, it's your time for your.

925
00:48:08,400 --> 00:48:09,519
Speaker 2: Appeal to the gospels.

926
00:48:09,599 --> 00:48:12,400
Speaker 1: Dude, No, I think you I think you listen to respond,

927
00:48:12,480 --> 00:48:14,719
you don't actually listen to what you're saying.

928
00:48:14,719 --> 00:48:21,800
Speaker 2: Don't answer. There is just bad argument, I understand.

929
00:48:22,559 --> 00:48:26,599
Speaker 1: All right, all right, cool, So again now because I

930
00:48:26,679 --> 00:48:28,559
got two minutes, right, so I'm trying to make it

931
00:48:28,679 --> 00:48:31,719
quick because he could. He had no response from Matthew

932
00:48:31,760 --> 00:48:33,880
Files has hit the twenty one outside of saying that

933
00:48:34,480 --> 00:48:37,039
Heaven and Earth has already passed with no evidence of that,

934
00:48:37,239 --> 00:48:43,920
which I find fairly Yeah, but that's that's not what

935
00:48:44,119 --> 00:48:45,480
that's not what's not what you ask.

936
00:48:45,639 --> 00:48:46,920
Speaker 2: But but you don't know anything about.

937
00:48:46,920 --> 00:48:50,360
Speaker 3: It's just let's let Bryson ask his questions and then

938
00:48:50,639 --> 00:48:53,880
it's your time. You can interrupt, you question. He's just

939
00:48:54,000 --> 00:48:56,920
rehearsing revelations cross exactly.

940
00:48:56,840 --> 00:48:59,079
Speaker 1: Is leading to a question? By the way, Revelation twenty

941
00:48:59,159 --> 00:49:00,719
one tells you and have in a their for pass

942
00:49:00,760 --> 00:49:03,039
and this involves Jesus coming back. So my next question

943
00:49:03,119 --> 00:49:04,880
is that you believe Jesus already came back.

944
00:49:05,400 --> 00:49:08,480
Speaker 2: Yes, he came in judgment upon the nation of Israel

945
00:49:08,519 --> 00:49:10,639
and seventy eight, which is what he describes in Luke

946
00:49:10,679 --> 00:49:13,039
twenty one. You understand Luke twenty one says that it

947
00:49:13,039 --> 00:49:15,119
will happen to this generation that he will come in

948
00:49:15,239 --> 00:49:17,920
judgment with the Roman nation to destroy the temple.

949
00:49:18,400 --> 00:49:21,039
Speaker 1: Okay, So now again somewhere, So you believe that Christ

950
00:49:21,079 --> 00:49:22,559
has already came like a beef in the night.

951
00:49:22,639 --> 00:49:25,079
Speaker 2: This is if you had listened instead of trying to

952
00:49:25,079 --> 00:49:25,719
talk so fast.

953
00:49:25,800 --> 00:49:28,280
Speaker 1: I said that earlier, but I repeat it what you

954
00:49:28,280 --> 00:49:30,880
said and wrote it all down, and I literally rehearse.

955
00:49:30,960 --> 00:49:33,159
I literally quoted you. I literally quoted you saying, heaven

956
00:49:33,159 --> 00:49:35,159
if it's already passed. I'm trying to and I'm trying

957
00:49:35,159 --> 00:49:36,440
to get to the point of why you believe that.

958
00:49:36,559 --> 00:49:39,280
You don't, so just be quiet for a quick second.

959
00:49:39,559 --> 00:49:42,039
So I think our main issue is you believe that

960
00:49:42,159 --> 00:49:43,880
Christ has already came back like a beef in the night,

961
00:49:44,000 --> 00:49:47,079
and I already you don't even know. I think that

962
00:49:47,239 --> 00:49:50,519
is all right, bro, I does don't even care to one.

963
00:49:52,480 --> 00:49:53,880
Speaker 3: You have thirty seconds on the clock.

964
00:49:53,920 --> 00:49:56,119
Speaker 1: I don't you can yield it, bro, I have I

965
00:49:56,159 --> 00:49:58,039
don't even care you can yield it. This is not

966
00:49:58,360 --> 00:49:59,800
this is not fruitful, okay.

967
00:49:59,840 --> 00:50:02,400
Speaker 3: I I think the audience from the chat audience is

968
00:50:02,480 --> 00:50:04,840
finding it fruitful. We can go to Jay, but I

969
00:50:04,880 --> 00:50:06,719
think a lot of people in the audience are interested

970
00:50:06,760 --> 00:50:09,360
in hearing your point of view and Jay's point of view,

971
00:50:09,360 --> 00:50:13,199
I think they are finding it fruitful. Jay, you want

972
00:50:13,320 --> 00:50:13,559
when I.

973
00:50:13,599 --> 00:50:15,639
Speaker 2: Asked you why the Book of Matthew is supposed to

974
00:50:15,679 --> 00:50:18,280
be a gospel that we accept and that it's authoritative,

975
00:50:18,320 --> 00:50:21,280
you said, because there was early mentions of gospels. That's

976
00:50:21,360 --> 00:50:22,880
begging the question, that's a fallacy.

977
00:50:24,440 --> 00:50:27,920
Speaker 1: Yeah. So again, as I said, they got the earliest

978
00:50:28,039 --> 00:50:30,360
evidence we have of these things, which a lot of

979
00:50:30,440 --> 00:50:34,239
times do come from bishops, because Irannius was a bishop

980
00:50:34,360 --> 00:50:37,440
and Papeist was also a bishop. This I don't unerstand.

981
00:50:37,440 --> 00:50:39,119
I keep bring up tradition, like I talked against that

982
00:50:39,320 --> 00:50:42,480
in this in this conversation, which I haven't because of that,

983
00:50:42,800 --> 00:50:46,880
I know because of Papeists that Matthew was already viewed

984
00:50:47,199 --> 00:50:50,039
so inspired you do prior to Papeists.

985
00:50:50,360 --> 00:50:55,239
Speaker 2: So you appeal to the tradition, right, I just said that. Okay,

986
00:50:55,320 --> 00:50:57,480
So the way that you know that that book is

987
00:50:57,519 --> 00:50:59,920
in the Bible is our tradition. You don't find that

988
00:51:00,079 --> 00:51:01,119
a problem for your view.

989
00:51:03,079 --> 00:51:06,719
Speaker 1: No, because it was obviously it has inspired before papers.

990
00:51:06,960 --> 00:51:09,920
Speaker 2: That's that's the It's not inspired by anybody in your

991
00:51:09,960 --> 00:51:13,480
made up group. Your group didn't exist my group.

992
00:51:14,320 --> 00:51:16,719
Speaker 1: What group you speaking of? Whatever your group is, I

993
00:51:16,760 --> 00:51:19,719
don't know, So I mean how you're asking the question

994
00:51:19,760 --> 00:51:20,159
if you don't know.

995
00:51:20,199 --> 00:51:23,719
Speaker 2: Your sect, where was it in the first seven centuries?

996
00:51:24,119 --> 00:51:25,880
Speaker 1: But what what would you call them? My sex? And

997
00:51:26,000 --> 00:51:27,599
I say, I don't believe you.

998
00:51:27,920 --> 00:51:29,199
Speaker 2: You don't name it, so you tell me?

999
00:51:29,920 --> 00:51:32,000
Speaker 1: Okay, well, based on what I believe my sick is

1000
00:51:32,039 --> 00:51:35,599
the people that I don't know followed Jesus in the Bible.

1001
00:51:35,920 --> 00:51:37,880
Speaker 2: Representatives of those people in the first.

1002
00:51:39,519 --> 00:51:41,360
Speaker 1: I mean they were all there, matter of fact, the

1003
00:51:41,360 --> 00:51:42,000
people that you have.

1004
00:51:42,079 --> 00:51:44,039
Speaker 2: Any reference to prove that people in that time period.

1005
00:51:44,079 --> 00:51:45,840
Speaker 1: Yes, and you name Paul.

1006
00:51:46,320 --> 00:51:49,320
Speaker 2: Paul kept saying the second, third, fourth, fifth, sixth, seventh.

1007
00:51:49,360 --> 00:51:50,880
Speaker 1: I'm talking about the Originals.

1008
00:51:51,920 --> 00:51:53,280
Speaker 2: Where's the church? Your group?

1009
00:51:53,360 --> 00:51:55,639
Speaker 1: If Paul keep Sabbath, sir, okay, so it died.

1010
00:51:55,760 --> 00:51:56,880
Speaker 2: Do you think the church died?

1011
00:51:57,719 --> 00:51:59,760
Speaker 1: Paul keep Sabbath. Yes, I just want to know. How

1012
00:51:59,760 --> 00:52:01,239
about Peter? How about James?

1013
00:52:01,960 --> 00:52:06,119
Speaker 2: This is me interrogetting your group. So there's not your

1014
00:52:06,159 --> 00:52:09,360
group and I gave you it doesn't exist for seven centuries.

1015
00:52:09,960 --> 00:52:11,519
Speaker 1: No, if you have to do your research, people that

1016
00:52:11,559 --> 00:52:14,719
will called because you did the research on your just

1017
00:52:14,880 --> 00:52:16,920
I just I've just as I want to know.

1018
00:52:17,039 --> 00:52:19,079
Speaker 2: You tell me where they are. Don't tell me to

1019
00:52:19,119 --> 00:52:21,360
do the research. In a debate, you're supposed to bring

1020
00:52:21,440 --> 00:52:21,880
the research.

1021
00:52:21,960 --> 00:52:23,079
Speaker 1: I just I just answered.

1022
00:52:25,519 --> 00:52:28,079
Speaker 3: That'll be time on this. Bryson. You have two minutes

1023
00:52:28,119 --> 00:52:29,400
for your cross examination of J.

1024
00:52:29,599 --> 00:52:31,840
Speaker 1: No, you can even give him my next two minutes.

1025
00:52:32,440 --> 00:52:34,599
But I already I already answered the question.

1026
00:52:34,679 --> 00:52:38,400
Speaker 2: I said anything you haven't answered, I did. I said,

1027
00:52:38,440 --> 00:52:40,360
you ain't answered, ship dude, So.

1028
00:52:40,480 --> 00:52:43,000
Speaker 1: Let me ask a question where you said, you said,

1029
00:52:43,119 --> 00:52:43,880
go look it up?

1030
00:52:44,280 --> 00:52:46,000
Speaker 2: Where is your group? Where's an example?

1031
00:52:46,719 --> 00:52:48,679
Speaker 1: This is why you need to talk lesson where is

1032
00:52:48,760 --> 00:52:51,960
the example? Okay, because if you actually quiet down for

1033
00:52:52,039 --> 00:52:53,960
a bit, if you let me finish my statement, you

1034
00:52:54,000 --> 00:52:54,639
would have heard me.

1035
00:52:54,719 --> 00:53:09,239
Speaker 2: Say you have that you go do some research. You said,

1036
00:53:09,280 --> 00:53:11,559
go do some research? Where was your group in those centuries?

1037
00:53:16,760 --> 00:53:17,679
So pure silence.

1038
00:53:19,079 --> 00:53:20,440
Speaker 1: I don't even why you asking the question, because you

1039
00:53:20,440 --> 00:53:21,639
don't even care if somebody answers it or not.

1040
00:53:21,760 --> 00:53:24,119
Speaker 2: You didn't answer. I don't let people not answer, and

1041
00:53:24,280 --> 00:53:30,320
just I did answer because you got pinned down. You

1042
00:53:30,400 --> 00:53:31,800
want to make it didn't.

1043
00:53:32,159 --> 00:53:36,119
Speaker 1: Answer clearly, I clearly answered your question. I just talked

1044
00:53:36,159 --> 00:53:39,719
so much about every time. That's not that's not the

1045
00:53:39,760 --> 00:53:40,480
only thing I said.

1046
00:53:42,360 --> 00:53:45,000
Speaker 2: Where was your group? And those it's a simple questions.

1047
00:53:45,159 --> 00:53:47,119
Speaker 1: Quit the fatter fact matter. I would use my I

1048
00:53:47,159 --> 00:53:48,880
would use part of my two minutes when hista min

1049
00:53:49,039 --> 00:53:51,400
is up Uh to answer his question for him without

1050
00:53:51,440 --> 00:53:51,880
him in the round.

1051
00:53:51,920 --> 00:53:57,320
Speaker 2: Go ahead, go ahead and google your group in those centuries.

1052
00:53:57,400 --> 00:53:57,800
Hurry up.

1053
00:53:58,599 --> 00:53:59,960
Speaker 1: I don't have to. I don't have google nded the

1054
00:54:00,159 --> 00:54:01,920
matter of fact I had I haven't had to look

1055
00:54:02,000 --> 00:54:02,920
up a book up the.

1056
00:54:04,199 --> 00:54:06,800
Speaker 2: Yeah, you're an amazing genius at this. We all know

1057
00:54:07,000 --> 00:54:09,320
how smart you are, but you can't answer basic questions.

1058
00:54:10,679 --> 00:54:12,639
Speaker 3: It's you gave up your last two minutes. You said

1059
00:54:12,719 --> 00:54:15,719
jas thirty more seconds on this, then you two minutes

1060
00:54:15,800 --> 00:54:17,519
and you know you don't need to don't need to

1061
00:54:17,559 --> 00:54:19,639
give give up time or anything. I'm pausing it right now,

1062
00:54:19,719 --> 00:54:22,760
real quick. I know that things get contentious. That's totally fine.

1063
00:54:24,320 --> 00:54:26,280
These are serious things you guys are talking about. The

1064
00:54:26,320 --> 00:54:28,159
audience is getting a lot from it. So I do

1065
00:54:28,280 --> 00:54:30,440
think it's fruitful to engage as best as we can.

1066
00:54:30,760 --> 00:54:32,360
And Jay, you have twenty more seconds left on your

1067
00:54:32,360 --> 00:54:33,960
cross exam before we go back to Bryson.

1068
00:54:35,280 --> 00:54:38,880
Speaker 2: Where was anyone who believes your views in the second, third, fourth, sixth,

1069
00:54:38,920 --> 00:54:41,840
seventh centuries. They're always there from the Bible on word,

1070
00:54:42,880 --> 00:54:46,559
that's not a source. Dude, Are you serious? Do you

1071
00:54:46,719 --> 00:54:48,679
really think that that was an answer? You have no

1072
00:54:48,880 --> 00:54:50,679
evidence for it. You just said they're they have a

1073
00:54:50,719 --> 00:54:53,280
lot of evidence that I was, where's some size, where's

1074
00:54:53,280 --> 00:54:54,360
some sources, site something?

1075
00:54:54,920 --> 00:54:56,039
Speaker 1: I will when your time is up?

1076
00:54:58,000 --> 00:54:58,320
Speaker 2: All right?

1077
00:54:58,440 --> 00:55:01,519
Speaker 3: That is that is time bracing. You have two minutes

1078
00:55:01,559 --> 00:55:02,039
on the clock.

1079
00:55:02,519 --> 00:55:04,480
Speaker 1: Okay, can you pause me at my one minute mark.

1080
00:55:04,800 --> 00:55:08,360
I'm actually use a minute of mind to answer his question. Okay,

1081
00:55:08,440 --> 00:55:10,679
all right, So, like I said, like I said before,

1082
00:55:10,920 --> 00:55:12,360
the reason I say, if you do your research, you

1083
00:55:12,360 --> 00:55:14,079
should have just stopped talking and let me finish what

1084
00:55:14,119 --> 00:55:15,760
I was saying at the point of saying that if

1085
00:55:15,760 --> 00:55:18,320
you do your research, they recall what people call nowadays

1086
00:55:18,360 --> 00:55:22,519
Jewish Christians have always existed from biblical time onward. Some

1087
00:55:22,639 --> 00:55:25,360
people view the mess Nazarenes, not the current Nazarenes, but

1088
00:55:25,400 --> 00:55:28,519
they have literally always existed. A sect of followers of

1089
00:55:28,599 --> 00:55:32,760
Jesus that kept the laws of Tora has literally always existed.

1090
00:55:33,599 --> 00:55:35,480
And the evidence is, like I said before, I mean

1091
00:55:35,559 --> 00:55:38,679
literally in the Bible, since every single apostle that existed

1092
00:55:39,599 --> 00:55:43,480
practice exactly like how I do, which I find quite funny.

1093
00:55:43,880 --> 00:55:46,400
But even afterwards, this is a sad matter of fact,

1094
00:55:46,400 --> 00:55:48,920
there's a lot of church Father's writings actually speaking against

1095
00:55:48,960 --> 00:55:52,400
these people, calling them Judaizers, And you know that as

1096
00:55:52,480 --> 00:55:56,719
a great history buff yourself. So that was my answer,

1097
00:55:56,840 --> 00:55:58,840
which means I did answer your question. If you don't

1098
00:55:58,960 --> 00:56:00,920
like the answer is none of none of my problem.

1099
00:56:01,000 --> 00:56:03,159
But I did answer it very clear for and this

1100
00:56:03,360 --> 00:56:05,760
was my answer. But you was talking too much. Now

1101
00:56:06,719 --> 00:56:09,360
my question to you, I really don't have anymore because

1102
00:56:09,400 --> 00:56:13,039
you don't really care about honor answers.

1103
00:56:13,880 --> 00:56:16,239
Speaker 2: Yeah, so go after motives, Yeah, because that's all you

1104
00:56:16,320 --> 00:56:18,519
have left because you don't have an answer. Yeah, so

1105
00:56:18,639 --> 00:56:20,960
you you never quit, You didn't answer, You just said

1106
00:56:20,960 --> 00:56:21,440
they were there.

1107
00:56:21,880 --> 00:56:25,400
Speaker 3: Time to rebut Jay, yeah, price and go for these

1108
00:56:25,440 --> 00:56:27,360
two minutes you can you can re button and.

1109
00:56:28,840 --> 00:56:29,519
Speaker 2: About motives.

1110
00:56:30,719 --> 00:56:33,760
Speaker 3: That is true. But let's let we'll let we'll leave

1111
00:56:33,800 --> 00:56:35,800
the interruptions. The only person who can interrupt is a

1112
00:56:35,800 --> 00:56:38,480
person whose time it is. Yeah, we'll move forward that way.

1113
00:56:39,199 --> 00:56:41,559
Speaker 1: But I find I find it interest in how he's

1114
00:56:41,599 --> 00:56:43,639
now crying about motives when He's made at least ten

1115
00:56:43,719 --> 00:56:45,400
claims about me in the last time, but I don't

1116
00:56:45,440 --> 00:56:46,800
really care. But I'm about to go tit for tat.

1117
00:56:46,880 --> 00:56:48,239
That's not what the debate is supposed to be where

1118
00:56:48,239 --> 00:56:50,960
I've grown adults. Uh so again, I mean, the only

1119
00:56:51,039 --> 00:56:52,800
thing is he said Jesus already came in to beef

1120
00:56:52,840 --> 00:56:55,440
in the night, and I guess that can be his interpretation.

1121
00:56:55,559 --> 00:56:57,599
I can't tell him that can't be an interpretation. I

1122
00:56:57,719 --> 00:57:00,400
think that is like a gross interpretation. But the scriptures

1123
00:57:00,440 --> 00:57:01,719
have to say. And I would actually say he is

1124
00:57:01,760 --> 00:57:03,400
in the minority on that, just like I'm in the

1125
00:57:03,519 --> 00:57:07,679
minority amongst Christians of believing that we still have to

1126
00:57:07,760 --> 00:57:10,440
keep the law. I mean, I really don't have any

1127
00:57:10,440 --> 00:57:11,920
more questions, but I feel like that's the contention. I

1128
00:57:11,920 --> 00:57:13,960
fe like we figured out what the issue is. He

1129
00:57:14,039 --> 00:57:15,639
believed Jesus came like a beef in the night. I

1130
00:57:15,679 --> 00:57:17,280
don't believe that it has happened yet, So I mean,

1131
00:57:17,800 --> 00:57:19,800
I don't understand what else there will be to debate about.

1132
00:57:19,840 --> 00:57:21,400
That's the crutz of the issue right there.