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Good evening in 48 00:02:18.719 --> 00:02:23.879 Mummy Dead and Dearest, Provocative documentarian Aaron Lee Carr HBO's 49 00:02:23.919 --> 00:02:27.879 Thought Crimes. The Case of the cannibal cop explores a 50 00:02:27.919 --> 00:02:32.039 grizzly tale where nothing is quite what it seems. Following 51 00:02:32.080 --> 00:02:35.680 Dete's brutal murder, a mysterious status end up on her 52 00:02:35.719 --> 00:02:40.280 Facebook page announcing the bitch is Dead, which investigators used 53 00:02:40.280 --> 00:02:43.639 to track her daughter, Gypsy, to a house in Wisconsin. 54 00:02:44.560 --> 00:02:47.599 Gypsy had been ill and confined to a wheelchair for nearly. 55 00:02:47.400 --> 00:02:50.560 Her entire life was a subject of much concern in 56 00:02:50.599 --> 00:02:53.960 their community, but once she was brought into the courthouse, 57 00:02:54.000 --> 00:02:57.479 everybody was shocked to discover that she could walk after all. 58 00:02:58.560 --> 00:03:00.960 The inspiring tale of a mother and her sick daughter 59 00:03:01.039 --> 00:03:05.719 turned into something much darker than anybody anticipated. With Gipsy 60 00:03:05.759 --> 00:03:10.719 a victim of one of psychology's most controversial conditions, Munchausen 61 00:03:10.800 --> 00:03:14.719 by proxy. Car digs deeper into this rabbit hole of 62 00:03:14.759 --> 00:03:19.360 deception with unprecedented access and weaves a tale that proves 63 00:03:19.360 --> 00:03:25.800 that truth really is stranger than fiction. The subject tonight 64 00:03:26.080 --> 00:03:30.759 is the documentary documentary Mummy, Dead and Dearest, with my 65 00:03:30.919 --> 00:03:35.599 special guest, Aaron Lee Carr, director and writer Aaron Lee Carr. 66 00:03:35.680 --> 00:03:37.879 Welcome to the program, and thank you very much for 67 00:03:38.039 --> 00:03:38.919 this interview. 68 00:03:38.919 --> 00:03:43.199 Aaron Lee Carr, wonderful, so happy to be talking with you. 69 00:03:44.520 --> 00:03:48.360 Thank you very much, very very congratulations of just a 70 00:03:48.479 --> 00:03:51.919 start on a very very powerful and very provocative and 71 00:03:52.039 --> 00:03:58.919 very very unique and interesting documentary. Now let's get to 72 00:03:59.400 --> 00:04:04.039 how this came about. You talk about your co producer, 73 00:04:04.240 --> 00:04:07.960 one of your co producers, Alison Burne. So tell us 74 00:04:08.000 --> 00:04:11.680 how and when this came to be that you were 75 00:04:12.639 --> 00:04:15.599 interested in this story. How you came to be interested 76 00:04:15.680 --> 00:04:17.160 in this story. Tell us about that. 77 00:04:18.279 --> 00:04:18.959 Yeah, of course. 78 00:04:19.079 --> 00:04:22.920 So I made my first film for HBO called Thought Cremes, 79 00:04:22.959 --> 00:04:25.079 and it was, you know, it was this case about 80 00:04:25.079 --> 00:04:29.519 this guy that was was convicted of conspiring to kidnap, rape, 81 00:04:29.519 --> 00:04:32.279 torturing women. He did it online, and so it was 82 00:04:32.319 --> 00:04:37.920 this really weird, kind of unique intersection between crime and 83 00:04:37.959 --> 00:04:41.360 the internet. And following the release of that film, you know, 84 00:04:41.839 --> 00:04:44.879 I wanted to stay in that space. I thought, you know, 85 00:04:44.959 --> 00:04:47.920 this is what's interesting to me and I think that 86 00:04:48.040 --> 00:04:48.680 I think there's a. 87 00:04:48.600 --> 00:04:53.720 Lot more to sort of uncover and investigate. And so 88 00:04:53.879 --> 00:04:56.040 I basically was working with Alison, as you. 89 00:04:56.000 --> 00:05:01.439 Said, and she was researching stories where people confessed online 90 00:05:02.160 --> 00:05:05.480 and Gypsy Rose blanchert this case came up. 91 00:05:05.519 --> 00:05:07.600 But when she started telling me about it. I thought 92 00:05:07.639 --> 00:05:08.560 it was sort of a joke. 93 00:05:08.680 --> 00:05:10.959 It didn't make sense. I had never heard of anything 94 00:05:11.079 --> 00:05:13.720 like it, And you know, we just kind of sat 95 00:05:13.759 --> 00:05:15.560 and talked about it for an hour, and we saw 96 00:05:15.560 --> 00:05:18.720 it on a thought catalog piece, an article written by 97 00:05:18.959 --> 00:05:22.560 a writer named Megan Pack and we started the very 98 00:05:22.680 --> 00:05:28.120 very slow, painful but ultimately successful process of trying to 99 00:05:28.120 --> 00:05:30.319 get people to speak with us. 100 00:05:32.120 --> 00:05:37.800 Now, when Alison spoke to you, and you're and your 101 00:05:38.600 --> 00:05:42.360 producer Andrew Rossi as well, when you discussed this, what 102 00:05:42.480 --> 00:05:44.439 did you know? What was the outline of the story? 103 00:05:44.600 --> 00:05:48.360 You said you learned much more, obviously, and obviously that's 104 00:05:48.399 --> 00:05:51.480 what this film is about. So tell us what you knew. 105 00:05:51.519 --> 00:05:55.040 What was that initial outline that said this is fascinating, 106 00:05:55.079 --> 00:05:55.879 I've got to do this. 107 00:05:57.920 --> 00:05:58.759 That's a good question. 108 00:05:59.560 --> 00:06:03.319 I think that it just was the pure The question 109 00:06:03.399 --> 00:06:05.800 that loomed for me was how could you, as a 110 00:06:05.879 --> 00:06:12.759 human being, day in a wheelchair for fourteen years? 111 00:06:12.800 --> 00:06:14.399 Like, what does that even mean? 112 00:06:14.439 --> 00:06:18.639 If you're psychologically sort of stuck in a chair, you know, confined, 113 00:06:18.639 --> 00:06:21.160 like you don't even have access to your you know, 114 00:06:21.600 --> 00:06:26.879 access to your body. So I just I just didn't 115 00:06:27.000 --> 00:06:29.240 know really what to make of it, and I didn't 116 00:06:29.279 --> 00:06:30.480 know who Gypsy was. 117 00:06:30.560 --> 00:06:33.079 She was sort of this cipher. Nobody knew how she 118 00:06:33.160 --> 00:06:34.199 sort of felt about it. 119 00:06:34.720 --> 00:06:37.199 And you know, because I was able to work with HBO, 120 00:06:37.319 --> 00:06:40.000 I had the confidence to reach out directly to her. 121 00:06:43.040 --> 00:06:46.199 Now, talk about that you corresponded with her in prison, 122 00:06:47.319 --> 00:06:51.759 but she didn't immediately was not able to work with you. 123 00:06:51.920 --> 00:06:54.480 So tell us about this process, how long this took, 124 00:06:54.560 --> 00:06:57.839 and what was that process to be able to get 125 00:06:57.879 --> 00:06:59.639 access to her and be able to interview her. 126 00:07:02.240 --> 00:07:03.560 So basically we started. 127 00:07:04.040 --> 00:07:08.160 I started out and I wrote her a letter in prison, 128 00:07:08.240 --> 00:07:11.720 and I sort of introduced myself and talked about the 129 00:07:11.759 --> 00:07:14.519 things that I'm interested in her case. And I remember 130 00:07:14.560 --> 00:07:17.639 I was at my apartment in Brooklyn and I got 131 00:07:17.680 --> 00:07:18.319 a letter. 132 00:07:18.120 --> 00:07:19.600 Back, and I was so excited. 133 00:07:19.639 --> 00:07:21.519 And I have a like a sort of a tradition 134 00:07:21.639 --> 00:07:22.759 of like how I open. 135 00:07:22.600 --> 00:07:26.519 These letters, these access letters. I'm a little bit superstitious. 136 00:07:26.879 --> 00:07:28.920 And I opened it, and you know, in this this 137 00:07:29.079 --> 00:07:32.120 very sort of unique handwriting, she wrote to me and 138 00:07:32.160 --> 00:07:35.560 she said, hello, miss miss Aaron, thank you so much 139 00:07:35.560 --> 00:07:37.720 for your interest. I really want to talk to you. 140 00:07:38.519 --> 00:07:42.519 And I'm paraphrasing, by the way, and and she just said, 141 00:07:42.600 --> 00:07:45.079 you know, I'm going to talk to Mike Stanfield and see, 142 00:07:45.439 --> 00:07:47.800 you know how best to do this. And I was 143 00:07:47.839 --> 00:07:50.199 so excited. I was like, could it be this easy? 144 00:07:50.439 --> 00:07:53.279 I mean, like, you know that that was so quick. 145 00:07:53.439 --> 00:07:56.040 And then, of course, a couple of days later I 146 00:07:56.120 --> 00:07:59.879 received another letter from that in that similar handwriting, and 147 00:08:00.120 --> 00:08:02.800 she said, you know, I spoke with my lawyer, Mike Stanfield, 148 00:08:03.040 --> 00:08:06.839 and now is not the right time to talk. You know, 149 00:08:06.959 --> 00:08:09.639 at the time, she was facing a potential death penalty. 150 00:08:10.519 --> 00:08:13.079 It was a death penalty case that they were deciding. 151 00:08:13.680 --> 00:08:18.800 And you know I understood, you know, filmmaking and making television, 152 00:08:19.000 --> 00:08:21.120 even you know, if it's for HBO, can't get in 153 00:08:21.160 --> 00:08:24.959 the way of a legal case. And so I had 154 00:08:25.000 --> 00:08:26.879 to be I had to be patient and figure out 155 00:08:26.879 --> 00:08:29.399 other ways to tell the story while waiting to see 156 00:08:29.439 --> 00:08:29.639 if I. 157 00:08:29.639 --> 00:08:30.720 Could get access to her. 158 00:08:33.159 --> 00:08:36.320 Now, let's go back for our audience that knows nothing 159 00:08:36.360 --> 00:08:39.120 about this story, and you're introducing this story. It's going 160 00:08:39.200 --> 00:08:44.519 to be debuting May fifteenth on HBO on Monday, on Monday, 161 00:08:44.600 --> 00:08:51.200 so very very soon. Now take us back to Springfield, 162 00:08:51.360 --> 00:08:59.080 Missouri and the crime itself. What was initially reported Before 163 00:08:59.120 --> 00:09:04.159 we talk about the relationship that people saw the mother 164 00:09:04.240 --> 00:09:07.360 and daughter and what they thought of that relationship, and 165 00:09:07.399 --> 00:09:10.879 what that those two people, the mother and daughter presented 166 00:09:11.879 --> 00:09:15.559 as the sick child and the reasons for that. So 167 00:09:15.679 --> 00:09:20.360 take us back to Springfield, Missouri and the crime scene 168 00:09:20.399 --> 00:09:25.200 itself before we go backwards for any kind of reasoning 169 00:09:25.320 --> 00:09:26.000 for some of this. 170 00:09:28.960 --> 00:09:29.480 Of course. 171 00:09:29.600 --> 00:09:34.399 So the crime scene was a very graphic one. It 172 00:09:34.799 --> 00:09:40.120 was so basically they had this pink habitat for humanity, 173 00:09:40.000 --> 00:09:44.240 a habitat for humanity house, and it was small, but queint. 174 00:09:44.399 --> 00:09:46.720 There were five wheelchairs. 175 00:09:46.039 --> 00:09:50.840 In the house. There was you know, their Gypsy had 176 00:09:50.840 --> 00:09:53.600 her own room, Dedie had her own room, but they 177 00:09:54.080 --> 00:09:59.679 often slept in the same bed and that just you know, 178 00:09:59.679 --> 00:10:02.039 and they're their crime scenes that opened this film. 179 00:10:02.080 --> 00:10:04.039 It's it's kind of hard for me to you know, 180 00:10:04.120 --> 00:10:04.919 even think about. 181 00:10:05.000 --> 00:10:08.159 But in the dead of night, a co conspirator of 182 00:10:08.200 --> 00:10:13.879 Gypsy snuck in, was handed a large, very large knife, 183 00:10:14.080 --> 00:10:19.879 and he went into Beattie's room and stabbed her back, 184 00:10:20.679 --> 00:10:21.679 slashed her neck. 185 00:10:22.679 --> 00:10:24.440 She woke up and said. 186 00:10:24.240 --> 00:10:30.519 Gypsy's name, and you know she she was, you know, murdered. 187 00:10:30.120 --> 00:10:30.960 In cold blood. 188 00:10:31.639 --> 00:10:36.399 They piled the blankets on top of her Nicholas had 189 00:10:36.519 --> 00:10:39.720 ordered Gypsy to be in the bathroom. 190 00:10:39.240 --> 00:10:41.600 Naked, and when the deed. 191 00:10:41.519 --> 00:10:44.120 Was done, he said, come out here. And it was 192 00:10:44.200 --> 00:10:48.639 her job to, you know, to scrub the bathroom for 193 00:10:48.759 --> 00:10:50.600 evidence because there were drops of blood. 194 00:10:51.440 --> 00:11:00.919 Wow, now, how was it that Let's let's go backwards here, 195 00:11:00.960 --> 00:11:03.759 because we're going to talk about a relationship and how 196 00:11:03.799 --> 00:11:07.320 this ever came to be, So we might as well 197 00:11:07.919 --> 00:11:11.799 go backwards and talk about you as you do. You 198 00:11:11.840 --> 00:11:14.440 have an interview with a friend who a neighbor who 199 00:11:14.480 --> 00:11:20.120 believes she's a good friend of Gypsy Rose, and so 200 00:11:20.159 --> 00:11:23.200 she understands, or at least at that time, believed that 201 00:11:23.279 --> 00:11:25.960 she had certain ailments. What are some of the ailments 202 00:11:26.039 --> 00:11:29.320 that people around her, people at school, people in the 203 00:11:29.320 --> 00:11:32.440 community believe that Gypsy has. 204 00:11:34.039 --> 00:11:36.440 So Gypsy and. 205 00:11:36.399 --> 00:11:40.159 Dda were well known in the community for being this 206 00:11:40.159 --> 00:11:47.120 this lovely, polite, super youthful mother daughter duo. You know, 207 00:11:47.200 --> 00:11:51.919 they were often wearing plush slippers or sweatpants. Gypsy always 208 00:11:52.039 --> 00:11:56.480 had like a knitted cap on. She was she was 209 00:11:56.759 --> 00:11:59.879 sort of balding, but well her mother had like actually 210 00:12:00.039 --> 00:12:03.960 shaved her head. And you know, you mentioned Aliyah. So 211 00:12:04.080 --> 00:12:07.159 this was a neighbor somebody that lived in the same 212 00:12:07.200 --> 00:12:10.440 community that Dedie and Gypsy lived in, and you know, 213 00:12:10.480 --> 00:12:11.960 she just said they were the kind of the best 214 00:12:11.960 --> 00:12:16.120 people around. And you know, Aliyah, being a good person, 215 00:12:16.759 --> 00:12:19.559 would offer to help Dedy and Gypsy with things. And 216 00:12:19.960 --> 00:12:23.200 you know, it always seemed weird to her that Gypsy 217 00:12:23.200 --> 00:12:26.039 and her never had alone time. Her mom was always 218 00:12:26.200 --> 00:12:30.399 always next to her, and you know, I think that, 219 00:12:31.080 --> 00:12:33.840 you know, it just it was this very strange thing, 220 00:12:33.960 --> 00:12:37.159 but Aliyah didn't really think about it because she was 221 00:12:37.200 --> 00:12:41.159 just helping this young handicapped girl who was also mentally challenged. 222 00:12:41.639 --> 00:12:42.639 Around the community. 223 00:12:42.679 --> 00:12:46.080 It was thought that Gypsy had muscular dystrophe. She was 224 00:12:46.080 --> 00:12:51.039 a keemia survivor. She was mentally incapacitated a case, she 225 00:12:51.120 --> 00:12:53.399 was slow, She was taken out of school when she 226 00:12:53.559 --> 00:12:54.799 was in the second grade. 227 00:12:55.519 --> 00:12:56.559 She had epilepsy. 228 00:12:56.720 --> 00:12:59.879 Her she would take a drug called tegritol and her 229 00:13:00.080 --> 00:13:04.000 heith would fall out. She wore these giant glasses because 230 00:13:04.039 --> 00:13:08.000 she or her vision was terrible. She had hearing problems, 231 00:13:08.399 --> 00:13:10.759 and oh yeah, she had a feeding tube put in 232 00:13:10.879 --> 00:13:14.679 her body because she was underweight. You know, it was 233 00:13:14.919 --> 00:13:19.799 it is remarkable how many illnesses or ailments, as you say, 234 00:13:20.279 --> 00:13:26.120 that Deedy sort of placed upon Gypsy. 235 00:13:26.279 --> 00:13:31.720 Now in this documentary, you truly do go the extra 236 00:13:32.000 --> 00:13:36.519 yard and investigate and have access to all these players 237 00:13:36.519 --> 00:13:42.159 in this incredible story. So where is the father of 238 00:13:42.320 --> 00:13:46.240 Gypsy Rose? And how is it that he doesn't see 239 00:13:46.279 --> 00:13:46.799 any of this? 240 00:13:49.519 --> 00:13:52.840 Yeah, I mean that's what a lot of people have 241 00:13:53.360 --> 00:13:56.159 sort of wondered. So like, you know, this is his child, 242 00:13:56.200 --> 00:13:59.000 how did he not know that she could walk? And 243 00:13:59.240 --> 00:14:01.639 you know, would had to go back to the beginning, 244 00:14:01.720 --> 00:14:05.679 which was, you know, they lived in a small rural 245 00:14:05.759 --> 00:14:07.080 part of Louisiana. 246 00:14:07.759 --> 00:14:10.799 Rod left d D before Gypsy was born. 247 00:14:11.399 --> 00:14:15.679 Uh, Dede immediately implied that Gypsy was a sick baby, 248 00:14:16.320 --> 00:14:18.960 and you know, it just it just sort of escalated 249 00:14:19.039 --> 00:14:23.279 from there, and you know, they they got divorced. There 250 00:14:23.320 --> 00:14:26.200 was you know sort of like child support and custody 251 00:14:26.200 --> 00:14:30.600 issues and d D harassed you know, Rod in the 252 00:14:30.679 --> 00:14:35.559 court system. And so after Hurricane Katrina, uh, you know, 253 00:14:35.799 --> 00:14:38.600 Gypsy and d D you know, left Louisiana and moved 254 00:14:38.600 --> 00:14:42.240 to Missouri and they were given this this this really 255 00:14:42.240 --> 00:14:46.039 this habitat for Humanity House and Dee Dee realized this 256 00:14:46.240 --> 00:14:49.799 was like the perfect this was the perfect ruse, like 257 00:14:49.879 --> 00:14:54.000 she could make over her life. 258 00:14:54.440 --> 00:14:57.320 Now with this you talk about this ruse, what did 259 00:14:57.320 --> 00:14:59.919 this include in terms of perks for d D What 260 00:15:00.159 --> 00:15:04.600 was the motivation in terms of at least at least superficially, 261 00:15:04.639 --> 00:15:07.120 what did it look like? What kind of perks did 262 00:15:07.159 --> 00:15:08.559 they get besides a home? 263 00:15:09.679 --> 00:15:13.159 Yeah, of course, so they they were given. 264 00:15:13.919 --> 00:15:16.440 You know, it ranged from as small as tickets to 265 00:15:16.480 --> 00:15:21.399 the movie theater to uh, you know, to trips flying 266 00:15:21.480 --> 00:15:27.159 to Disney World, private uh private, private flights to hospitals 267 00:15:27.240 --> 00:15:32.799 in Kansas City, thousands of dollars from celebrities that had 268 00:15:32.840 --> 00:15:37.679 met them at concerts, uh, you know, cash donations coming 269 00:15:37.720 --> 00:15:41.360 in from the internet fundraisers. 270 00:15:41.919 --> 00:15:43.120 I mean, it just you know this. 271 00:15:43.279 --> 00:15:45.360 I mean, it wasn't a giant amount of money. Like 272 00:15:45.360 --> 00:15:47.519 they weren't living off the hogs, you know what I mean. 273 00:15:47.639 --> 00:15:50.559 But you know, they got disability benefits from the government, 274 00:15:50.720 --> 00:15:54.240 they got donations. Uh, you know, DEDI did not have 275 00:15:54.360 --> 00:15:55.039 to work, they. 276 00:15:54.960 --> 00:16:01.799 Got child support. It's it's you know, they were living comfortably. 277 00:16:05.600 --> 00:16:13.360 Now, let's also talk about, as you do this Munchausen 278 00:16:14.039 --> 00:16:18.080 by proxy syndrome. Just briefly, not again not to give 279 00:16:18.120 --> 00:16:23.000 too much away, but explain for an audience that doesn't 280 00:16:23.039 --> 00:16:24.480 know what this is. What this is. 281 00:16:26.399 --> 00:16:30.120 So Munchausen by proxy is a psychological disorder where a 282 00:16:30.200 --> 00:16:35.000 caregiver or a parent stands illness in a child to 283 00:16:35.039 --> 00:16:41.759 garner attention or financial benefit. Sometimes it's Munchausen is just 284 00:16:41.799 --> 00:16:44.919 when you're feigning illnesses in yourself. Like you know, there's 285 00:16:44.960 --> 00:16:47.759 been a couple of, you know, really intense cases where 286 00:16:47.759 --> 00:16:50.679 people saying that they have cancer, they shave their heads, 287 00:16:50.919 --> 00:16:53.200 they take you know, they go to doctors for medication. 288 00:16:53.879 --> 00:16:55.639 You know, it is a mental illness. 289 00:16:56.000 --> 00:17:00.399 But I do believe that participants know what it, you know, 290 00:17:01.360 --> 00:17:05.079 like the difference between right and wrong. I mean, actually 291 00:17:05.559 --> 00:17:07.960 maybe I know this this is a live interview, but 292 00:17:08.400 --> 00:17:10.799 it is my consideration that I think Dede knew what 293 00:17:10.839 --> 00:17:11.240 she was. 294 00:17:11.160 --> 00:17:11.960 Doing was wrong. 295 00:17:12.000 --> 00:17:13.920 But that might not be all the you know, the 296 00:17:14.039 --> 00:17:17.000 case with everyone. 297 00:17:17.119 --> 00:17:26.559 Right now, let's get to how police are alerted in 298 00:17:26.640 --> 00:17:30.880 what manner are they alerted to d D's death. Tell 299 00:17:30.960 --> 00:17:33.279 us about the discovery. Well, we talked about the crime 300 00:17:33.319 --> 00:17:38.160 scene itself, but what alerts police specifically, and we mentioned 301 00:17:38.160 --> 00:17:41.000 it in the introduction about Facebook, So tell us about 302 00:17:41.000 --> 00:17:43.960 that Facebook post? What was said in there and what 303 00:17:44.039 --> 00:17:46.400 was the reaction and what did it all lead to? 304 00:17:47.559 --> 00:17:50.279 Yeah, of course there was a Facebook post that was 305 00:17:51.160 --> 00:17:55.880 that was posted on DDE and Gypsy's joint Facebook page. 306 00:17:56.039 --> 00:18:01.039 The first the first post that that bitch is dead, 307 00:18:01.720 --> 00:18:05.000 and the second post is and I fucking slashed that 308 00:18:05.200 --> 00:18:08.640 fat pig and raped her sweet innocent daughter. Her scream 309 00:18:08.799 --> 00:18:13.079 was so fucking loud lol, And people were like on 310 00:18:13.119 --> 00:18:15.960 the Facebook, they were like, what, like, you know, its 311 00:18:16.000 --> 00:18:18.519 just they had never heard any of these women ever 312 00:18:18.640 --> 00:18:22.359 talk like that. Gypsy was a child, Beatie would never 313 00:18:22.759 --> 00:18:25.279 never swore. Nobody ever heard her swear in her life. 314 00:18:25.319 --> 00:18:27.960 So people thought that Facebook was hacked, you know. 315 00:18:28.000 --> 00:18:28.519 It wasn't. 316 00:18:28.599 --> 00:18:31.559 It was Gypsy admitting, you know, she said she told 317 00:18:31.599 --> 00:18:34.119 me that she wanted people to find her mom's body quicker. 318 00:18:34.640 --> 00:18:39.599 I don't know that that does not seem I don't 319 00:18:39.680 --> 00:18:42.039 I don't know if that that sort of reasoning holds up. 320 00:18:44.920 --> 00:18:51.000 Doesn't sound like it to me. So with these posts continue, 321 00:18:51.039 --> 00:18:54.519 how I mean, obviously that's how all of these stories 322 00:18:54.559 --> 00:18:58.039 were hew. Police track everything cell phone analysis and posts, 323 00:18:58.039 --> 00:18:59.839 and so what did they discover? 324 00:19:02.160 --> 00:19:05.720 So they traced the IP address of the Facebook post 325 00:19:06.039 --> 00:19:10.160 back to a town called Big Ben Wisconsin, and Aliah 326 00:19:10.200 --> 00:19:13.039 was actually one of the first to tell authorities that 327 00:19:13.079 --> 00:19:16.680 she knew that Gypsy had a boyfriend. How she knew 328 00:19:16.720 --> 00:19:19.240 Gypsy had a boyfriend was that they talked on Facebook 329 00:19:19.920 --> 00:19:22.880 in a secret account that Gypsy had and Gypsy, in 330 00:19:22.920 --> 00:19:25.640 a very sort of girly fashion, was just like, you know, 331 00:19:25.720 --> 00:19:27.839 I have a boyfriend. His name is Nicholas. 332 00:19:27.880 --> 00:19:28.920 We want to get married. 333 00:19:28.960 --> 00:19:32.880 We both love Disney. And she said, you know, I 334 00:19:32.880 --> 00:19:38.400 think he was from Wisconsin, so it's you know, they 335 00:19:38.519 --> 00:19:45.079 said they thought potentially that that Nick had killed the 336 00:19:45.119 --> 00:19:49.359 mom and kidnapped Gypsy, right, so. 337 00:19:49.920 --> 00:19:53.759 Obviously they realize with some questioning. And you talk about 338 00:19:54.359 --> 00:19:58.160 because you have again the incredible access to have the 339 00:19:58.200 --> 00:20:05.039 interrogation interviews of this Nick go to John and it 340 00:20:05.160 --> 00:20:07.640 is fascinating. I gotta say it is when we I 341 00:20:07.680 --> 00:20:10.359 don't want to give too much away, but he does. 342 00:20:10.240 --> 00:20:15.039 Have it's close to air day, I said, careful, yeah, 343 00:20:15.079 --> 00:20:16.079 they're so close to the air day. 344 00:20:16.079 --> 00:20:18.000 And I hope people, well, no, I'm going to say, 345 00:20:18.039 --> 00:20:19.480 I'm just gonna want to give too much. I want 346 00:20:19.480 --> 00:20:22.160 to say just alert people to say that this is 347 00:20:22.160 --> 00:20:27.279 some of the most fascinating footage I've seen and you 348 00:20:27.359 --> 00:20:32.880 say he's confirmed artistic and has uh As Burgers. So 349 00:20:32.960 --> 00:20:36.240 we'll just yes again, we we can say that anyway, 350 00:20:36.279 --> 00:20:43.559 that it's a very interesting interview to say the least, totally. 351 00:20:43.599 --> 00:20:45.720 I felt the same way. I you know, when we 352 00:20:45.960 --> 00:20:48.200 got access to that, that was very lead in our 353 00:20:48.319 --> 00:20:51.680 edit process, and I just I watched it over and 354 00:20:51.720 --> 00:20:54.680 over again, you know, looking for clues about this man 355 00:20:54.759 --> 00:20:58.920 that had murdered his online girlfriends mother. You know, that 356 00:20:59.240 --> 00:21:00.759 is a very drastic action. 357 00:21:00.920 --> 00:21:02.200 Why would somebody do that? 358 00:21:02.880 --> 00:21:04.920 You know, what were the signs that led up to this? 359 00:21:05.240 --> 00:21:08.759 And you know, he had this very heightened prince charming 360 00:21:09.079 --> 00:21:11.839 gentleman thing where he thought it was his job to 361 00:21:11.880 --> 00:21:16.119 protect Gypsy and the only way that he could protect 362 00:21:16.160 --> 00:21:19.400 Gypsy was if the mom was gone. And it's just 363 00:21:19.640 --> 00:21:23.240 you know, it's it's he to me, in those interviews, 364 00:21:23.400 --> 00:21:26.759 in the police interrogation tapes, he seems severely mentally ill. 365 00:21:26.839 --> 00:21:29.200 He seems mentally ill in a way that Gypsy does 366 00:21:29.240 --> 00:21:33.839 not sort of look or sound or act like, you know, 367 00:21:33.880 --> 00:21:36.160 they feel like very different people to me. 368 00:21:38.440 --> 00:21:40.920 I agree. And the other thing is what we didn't 369 00:21:40.920 --> 00:21:44.440 talk about is and this is this is amazing to 370 00:21:44.480 --> 00:21:49.240 me too. How childlike this girl was made to be 371 00:21:49.480 --> 00:21:52.559 much younger. I don't know if we mentioned that she 372 00:21:52.759 --> 00:21:56.240 was meant to act much younger. She was told, as 373 00:21:56.279 --> 00:22:02.119 you about that she was retalkdar so, but she does. 374 00:22:02.480 --> 00:22:07.240 The most profound thing is how childlike she sounds. Almost baby. 375 00:22:07.359 --> 00:22:09.839 Yeah, I mean before I met her, I thought if 376 00:22:09.839 --> 00:22:11.519 I wondered if the voice was a put on. 377 00:22:12.839 --> 00:22:13.279 It's not. 378 00:22:13.400 --> 00:22:15.799 That's her real voice, her mother. 379 00:22:16.960 --> 00:22:20.079 So she when she when the murder happened. 380 00:22:19.720 --> 00:22:23.960 I believe she was twenty three, and she thought she 381 00:22:24.039 --> 00:22:27.559 was about sixteen or seventeen, So that's a huge different 382 00:22:27.720 --> 00:22:32.240 in age. You know, she does not look like she 383 00:22:32.319 --> 00:22:33.440 was in her early twenties. 384 00:22:33.680 --> 00:22:35.240 I mean, she could pass for thirteen. 385 00:22:37.839 --> 00:22:41.279 Sure, seemed like it. And what do you also have 386 00:22:41.440 --> 00:22:45.559 is this access to of course the texts and some 387 00:22:45.680 --> 00:22:49.920 of the video of these people. We won't say when, 388 00:22:50.039 --> 00:22:58.519 but incredible video footage of these people interacting this couple. Again, 389 00:22:58.559 --> 00:23:00.599 I can't even I don't even know how to describe 390 00:23:00.599 --> 00:23:06.440 it except bizarre, very bizarre, and but very immature to 391 00:23:07.319 --> 00:23:16.680 And that's the understatement of the week for sure. Now 392 00:23:18.640 --> 00:23:21.160 let's talk about you know, one thing that you do 393 00:23:21.920 --> 00:23:25.559 cover in the movie too, Is that that the mother 394 00:23:26.319 --> 00:23:33.519 herself is a master of manipulation? You do have you 395 00:23:33.559 --> 00:23:37.599 do really present that in this documentary, don't you? 396 00:23:38.799 --> 00:23:39.039 Yeah? 397 00:23:39.160 --> 00:23:45.079 I mean I did. Is endlessly fascinating, you know, I don't. 398 00:23:45.160 --> 00:23:47.160 I don't think any of I don't. I think very 399 00:23:47.200 --> 00:23:51.119 few people could understand why someone would do that to 400 00:23:51.200 --> 00:23:54.680 their child, you know, bring a child to a doctor 401 00:23:54.839 --> 00:23:58.279