Speaker 1: We're Tomy Lorenzo and this is the Pop Style Opinion Best.
Hello Kit, and welcome back to another edition of the PSO.
I am the team. You're Tello, Tom Fitzgerald, and I'm
here with the Low and your dil Lorenzo cousin. I
love the husband. How are you love a husband?
Speaker 2: I'm wonderful as usual, fantastic.
Speaker 1: It is the week before the Oscars and we are
busy little beavers, and uh, we're happy about that. Never
gonna complain about having too much content.
Speaker 2: It's so much easier to work when you have a
lot of We talk about this all the time.
Speaker 1: How you know, because we're boring people who talk about
our jobs.
Speaker 2: No, but it's true. When you have a lot to
choose from and you know, it makes it work a
lot easier.
Speaker 1: I agree with that. I do what else? So, yes,
we're gonna talk about the Oscars today. We're going to
do our final predictions because this has been at interesting
award season. I think it has thrown all of the
Oscar prognosticators into something of a frenzy. Yeah, because you
can never predict where things are gonna go. And then
after that we're going to do our spoiler filled deep
dives on the latest issues of Severns and the White Lotus.
I'm sorry the caffeine has not kicked in yet, people,
but it will in the middle of this podcast. Will
you will be able to tell when Tom's caffeine has
kicked in. Okay, so let's talk about the Oscars. The
big upset this weekend was they had the SAG Awards
and Timothy shallow May wound up with Best Actor and
for a complete unknown and he has not been picking
up awards throughout award season a lot. Most of the
attention has been going to Adrian Brodie, who is or
was considered the front runner going into Oscar night, and
then he turned around and won. So I I don't
I We're just gonna run through all the major categories,
so starting with the Best Actor because of Timothy Shallomey,
I go ahead. I I would have gone into this
with the conventional wisdom that Adrian Birdie was going to
win the Oscar.
Speaker 2: You never know, you never know. I don't know, people,
I don't know. The feeling I get is that people
are feeling sorry for too much in terms of like
him not winning anything. And his speech was kind of
a little, you know, poor me, I worked five years
on this, like when Yeah, I mean I'm being mean,
he are, But my point is that every but he
works hard. Everybody deserves an Oscar if they do a
good job. So anyway, it feel like, oh, I've been
working five years in this and I want to be,
you know, a super actor. Anyway, So I don't know,
maybe who knows, but I see, I think still goes
the Oscar, Still is gonna go, Still gonna go to
Adrian Brody.
Speaker 1: That is your final prediction, I think, so, I think.
I mean the other ones are Coleman, Domingo and Ray Fines,
and I mean they are both. They picked up a
few awards along the way, but I I really I'm
looking at everybody else. So Ray fine Simoth this year.
Speaker 2: Right, Yeah, I don't think, I mean they I feel
bad for Coleman because he's not winning anything.
Speaker 1: Oh I don't feel all that bad for Coleman, only
because I think he knows he's not winning last year,
just like he knew he wasn't winning last year for Rustin.
But he is playing that game. I mean, he is
securing his every award season he moves on to the
next batch of films that he's going to be promoting.
So I feel that he is exactly where he needs
to be his career. And I mean, I feel like
we shouldn't become I don't know, lazy about this, this
sort of thinking, because then it winds up nothing happens.
But I feel like he is destined to win the OUs,
like he's on as way. Yeah.
Speaker 2: Well, first of all, he's very talented, and he plays
the game. He's always smiling, giving great interviews and all that.
You know, people don't people might not know that, but
all that contributes a lot to people recognize you, knowing you,
and feel like, oh, there he is, you know, and
voting for it for him, I feel that's the way.
And that's and as we all know, people vote within
their category correct for all these awards in general.
Speaker 1: No, that's for the nominations.
Speaker 2: Oh no, oh okay, well in this case that's white
people get nominated because I guess you know, it's it's
your friends and you recognize your friends and stuff like that.
But when it's the final okay, the final vote, everybody
gets to vote. So if that's the case, because I forgot,
then Agent Brewing, for sure.
Speaker 1: I yeah, moving on to Best Actress again, there was
a bit of an upset because to me, Moore won
the SAG Award, but Mikey Madison won the Independent Spirit Award. Now,
I don't think Independent Spirit is necessarily the biggest predictor
of Oscar wins. I'm not so sure the SAG is
anymore either, But generally speaking, things like the Bapta and
the SAG people played pay attention to those above all
other right.
Speaker 2: Surprised with the Independent one because A Nor is such
an independent type of movie, you know, So there makes
sense that she won and to me is winning everything
aside from that, And I'm quite sure now. It's funny
because at the beginning I was like, well, for notatory
has a chance here, but I don't know anymore.
Speaker 1: Or two she has tumbled down. I think in the
rankings we should note that, I'm sorry, the Oscar voting
closed on like eighteenth or something like that. It closed
before the Baptis, So things like Timothy Shallomey's speech is
not going to have any effect on things because voting
had already closed by that point.
Speaker 2: So I feel bad for Fernando, but I just don't
I don't think she's gonna win. I think it's going
to be to me more because it's a typical role.
She's an actress, you know, she plays an actress.
Speaker 1: But they don't normally give horror films.
Speaker 2: I know. But it's a perfect comeback story, you know,
like they do like that. Oh, they do love that.
I think it's her. Yeah, uh, definitely not Carlo Sophia
goes go on, although she's going to be there.
Speaker 1: Yeah, she just announced that she is coming to the
ceremony after her big implosion because of all those racist
tweets I don't understand, and Netflix is pain her way.
They're well whatever, people don't get canceled anymore.
Speaker 2: No, then not only that, people forget very quickly. You know,
we have these big explosions and and and then people
kind of forget about it. Uh but yeah, and where
she's gonna be sitting next to the other actors, you know,
a million pearre's you know, I don't know. It's just weird, weird,
it's awkward. And then she's gonna be interview. What she
gonna say anyway, because they're gonna they're gonna ask questions.
Speaker 1: Of course, we'll see, all right, best supporting actress. Uh,
it's looking well. No, I think everyone knows it's always
sad On. I don't even see anyone else in the
running for it at this point. She has been snatching
up the bulk of the awards.
Speaker 2: Yeah, I mean yeah, Wicked is not winning anything, but
as you said, it might win for the Part two.
Speaker 1: I think I think everyone's holding on to see what
Part two does.
Speaker 2: Yeah, yeah, I I yeah, I feel my understanding. I
haven't watched it, but I haven't seen it yet, but
I I understanding. Felicity Jones is amazing in the brutalist correct. Yes, well,
we saw Isabella Russellini and she was fantastic. Uh, Ariana Grande,
we saw that too. Yeah, and Monica, I don't know
Monica Barbaro, she's gonna wait.
Speaker 1: It's no, it's not her. He So who's your prediction
for best supporting.
Speaker 2: Well, Zoe definitely, so, no doubt about it. She's good.
Speaker 1: Just to recap. Best actor is Adrian Brodie, that's our prediction.
Best actress is Demi more to me more right, and
best supporting Actress is always held on.
Speaker 2: Ye.
Speaker 1: We'll see if we're right on those. Best Supporting Actor,
pretty sure it's Karen Culkin.
Speaker 2: Oh my god, no doubt about that annoying creature. Yes, anyway,
it's gonna be him. Yeah, because out, Yeah, he is
annoying and he played himself every single time.
Speaker 1: That about everybody who gets nominated for anouns because that
you don't like. But he just that's just something you say.
Speaker 2: No, I mean he plays He's always playing annoying characters,
stressed out, the ready to you know, about to explode
type of character. Helloo, anyway, he doesn't show up for
the for the awards and stuff like that. He finally
showed up for the SAG. That's my understanding. Anyway, Yes,
it's gonna be him. Uh the movie was okay. Honestly,
the more I think about it, but it's like, yeah,
he was okay. But anyway, he's good. He's a favorite.
He's a favorite. That's the thing.
Speaker 1: He's the favorite.
Speaker 2: Yeah, it's called being the favorite.
Speaker 1: Yeah. I never have a prediction, or I never have
a good prediction for Best Picture or Best Director, because again,
who the hell knows where things are going?
Speaker 2: Yeah, I maybe the brutalist. I not a million pes anymore.
Speaker 1: Not a million Perez for Best Picture. I don't know
about I think the Brutalist is probably the most likely,
or I would have said that normally, But like I said,
it's very, very hard to pick where things are going
anymore because do you know, none of the predictors are
acting the way they normally act. And I still, yeah,
I'm looking at the It's like Anor the Brutalist to
complete Unknown Conclave Dune Part two, a million Perez, I'm
still here, Nickel Boys, The Substance and Wicked, So I
don't know, Anora's got some chops. The funny the thing
about Anora is it is the kind of film that
the Academy just loves. It's It's Hooker with a heart
of gold. I mean, that is one of the oldest
stories in Hollywood and they love that story. And something
like The Substance is a you know, it's a horror film.
So I don't see it happening. The Brutalist was hit
with some criticism AI crediticisms that may have heard it,
although I think a lot of people didn't understand that
at all. So yeah, it's it's down to Lenora and
the Brutalist. I think I still don't know that Mikey
Madison can be counted out over to me for Best Actress.
Speaker 2: So I'm still that would be shocking to me. Yeah,
but I'd be happy.
Speaker 1: I'd be happy they're not going to award a twenty
five year old over a veteran who has never been
recognized before. It's not likely.
Speaker 2: No, it's to me, it's like, you know, thinking.
Speaker 1: It's a Jamie Lee, Curtis, Brandon Fraser, you know, you
you know, I've been around forever and you didn't pay attention.
Speaker 2: Yeah, I mean it's yeah, popcorn girl, you know. And
they're like, you know, the never won anything. And for me,
I mean that all you know that that's good story. Me,
that's a good story.
Speaker 3: You mean, it's just that I'm so used to this
awards just awarding people based on whatever it's going on
at not necessarily you know the best part anyway.
Speaker 1: We're not doing things like screenplay or director or anything
like that.
Speaker 2: No, No, Like I'm just I just find it interesting
and I never really pay attention to maybe I am
Pey addition, now, how it kind of shifted a little,
like everybody was excited about Fernanda and then to me
and then all of a sudden, you know, Mikey Madison
starts winning and then it's a noora now and then
finally tim O te Lamy, so we'll see.
Speaker 1: Yeah, the Timothy thing was was wasn't upset. I don't
think he expected it at all.
Speaker 2: No, he didn't.
Speaker 1: Yeah, and I don't think he was campaigning throughout this
season acting like he expected it. So I don't know.
I don't know. It's anybody's game going into this. Like
I said, we're not prognosticators. We just you know, well
informed amateurs when it comes to oscar addictions. But yeah,
I think it's kind of interesting going into it because
for once we really don't know. I mean we never know. No,
there's always one or two little right, right, right. I
really don't know what's going to happen this year.
Speaker 2: Listen, I'm happy for me more. You know. It's like
I said, it's an interesting story. Everything that's going on
right now about her. She's looking amazing. It's a perfect
comeback story. You know, all that feel bad for Fernanda
Torres because you know pretty much a lot of people
are going to be upset about that if she doesn't win.
But maybe it's Mikey Madison, which I would prefer to
be honest at this point now.
Speaker 1: Over than me. Well, it's definitely a better performance.
Speaker 2: She's so charming. I've been watching a ton of interviews
with her, and she the whole thing preparing for the
role and everything about it. It was just how she
dealt with the subject matter and everything, but so much
respect for it all that it's beautiful. Yeah, we'll see beautiful.
It's beautiful. See that's the real deal, not you know, Oh,
I want to be at star, the big ist star
on the planet.
Speaker 1: Yeah. Anyway, that's our sort of limp Oscar race prediction.
I don't think we can predict, but we'll see how
things play it.
Speaker 2: Yeah.
Speaker 1: Well I do know is that we will be having major, major,
extensive coverage on our sie.
Speaker 2: Absolutely.
Speaker 1: All right, let's take a quick break and then we'll
be back to talk about Severance and the and the
White Lotus. We are back, and we're going to jump
into talking about Severance and the White Lotus and those
conversations will be filled with spoilers. But before we do that,
we have been putting off talking about well we haven't
been putting off. We keep forgetting, forgetting Every week about
we record a podcast and as soon as we're done,
you know, we flip the mics off. We're like, oh great,
we forgot to talk about Dallas. We are coming to Dallas,
though it's coming to Tech says this June for Pride.
I have actually never been to Texas before. I've only
passed through Texas. I've never actually so I've never been
to Dallas or anything like that. Very excited about that
badge of Pride. The Pride Group in Dallas has partnered
with the writers Garrett, who is going to be hosting
us the night of June twenty fifth, twenty twenty five
at the Bishop Arts Theater Center in Oakliffe in Dallas
for a night and Unforgettable evening as Tom and Lawrence
to take the stage to dive deep into how RuPaul's
Drag Race honors LGBTQ plus cultural traditions. What we're really
going to do is, of course, this is in support
of our book Legendary Children, the first decade of RuPaul's
Drag Race in the last century of queer life. And
I have to once again say how thrilled we are
that Legendary Children is still spurring on conversations five years
after publication, that we are still every Pride We're going
somewhere to talk about it.
Speaker 2: It's always a remind every every Pride month that how
important needs to talk about it and and and we
always we still get invitations and you know they mentioned
our book and we're talking about every time.
Speaker 1: Yeah. So, uh, we're just through at that you know,
legendary children still has a life and that we can
go out into the world every June and contribute to
the conversation about Pride and about our cultural history. So
to that end, we decided we're going to do a bit.
We're going to focus for this talk almost exclusively on
trans women and their contributions to the culture. We feel
like this year, more than ever, we need to start
elevating and supporting trans women absolutely, yeah, and this is
our way of doing So We're going to be doing
a Pride event in Dallas, and we're going to be
focusing on trans women in histories.
Speaker 2: We're going to do our part as we always try
to do, and but especially now, we feel like, especially now,
we need to be uh, you know, talk more about
it and and do whatever we can to always say
something great that matters.
Speaker 1: That is Wednesday, June twenty fifth, twenty twenty five at
the bishops Are sitter In Center in Dallas. You can
go to our website toime on Lorenza dot com and
all of the infotus right at the top of the page.
Would love to see you. There is a ticketed event.
There are seats that are free, but there are also
paid reserve seats and with those you get a sign
copy of our books. So sign up early, sign up often.
Would love to see you there in June.
Speaker 2: Oh, we excited to see you, guys.
Speaker 1: Severn's sevens this week was all about sexy times and
romance and love, try and goals.
Speaker 2: Yeah, it was interesting to see those those couples, you know,
like there was a little story about each one of them.
Speaker 1: Each one of the little severed and thes is having
a moment Mark and Helly Are they took their any
relationship to the next level. It was an interesting development
because I was I'm sure if Mark was going to
tell her about what happened at the bill, but he did,
and I thought that was great because it was nice
to see characters cutting through the bullshit. One of my
complaints earlier in the season was I can't stand these
shows where the entire narrative hangs on characters not saying
things to each other that in any situation people would
say something, So it was just nice to see something.
He just came right out with it.
Speaker 2: He told her what happened, and her reaction was very
I thought it was very mature and very interesting actually
because she you know, a little more irrational. I mean,
of course she was upset at first, but then, you know,
I think it was a little more rational when she
talked about boy, okay, you had sex with her, but
you thought it was me so more like a conversation
about it. Well, yeah, I thought that was an explosion.
I thought it was interesting.
Speaker 1: They were somewhat emotionally mature about it, and I think
the show went to lengths to show that they were
both emotionally mature about it. Was very sensitive to what
this news meant to her, and he felt very you know,
he was in his dealings with her. He was very
caring of her perceptions. And she disconnected and went off
by herself and processed it and then came back. All
of this is very very grown up, and we don't
see this level of emotional intelligence in their audeys. And
this goes to a point that I think the show
was working towards, which is that denies are better people
than their audis right, right, Let's talk briefly about that.
Something I'm noticing as the show goes on is that
certain innies are less differentiated from their oudeys than others.
And Mark is like the number one example of that.
Marx Any and Marx Audi are not that different different.
Marx Audi is deeply, deeply depressed man because of his
wife's death where he thinks his wife died marx and
he doesn't have that trauma, but marx Any has a
sort of melancholy that he carries around the office all
day long. Uh, and that's clearly something he's bringing in
from the outside. They both have a very sardonic, very
sarcastic sort of way of responding to things, and that
is there's almost no difference in that. Then you get
to someone like Helly, who is, if we believe what
we're seeing, she's a complete one eighty from her Audi.
Her Audi is they they talk different, they have different
facial expressions, they walk different, completely different. Personality is completely different.
And I think this does go to perhaps there are
going to be questions. I think as the series goes
on about how your any develops, and I think there's
a question of when you're any is such a one
eighty from your audi, how much of that is is
you actually exerting control over the process, like you are
you going down there and just shedding all the parts
of yourself that you don't like?
Speaker 2: Interesting?
Speaker 1: Yeah, I do think these are questions that I see
for me, That's that's what's interesting about That's what's interesting
about the show. Not the friggin goats, not any all
that here stuff and all frolic and all that weird
ass shit. No, it's the stuff about memory and personality
and what kind of person would do this? And they
That's why I like this episode is because it was
a bit It was way more about that than about
like fucking goats or Gwendolen Christie acting like a crazy woman.
I agree, Yeah, so I'm sorry, I just want to
And then there's Dylan, Oh my god, yeah who who?
His any is confident and funny and much I think
he's not. I think, well, you know, actually he's kind
of a dick. Dylan is kind of a dick in
it's sort of a jovial dick. Let's put it that way.
But he's a smart ass to the people around him,
whereas Aldi Dylan is kind of MOPy and he's kind
of a loser, and he's obviously not emotionally available for
his wife. And we'll get into that whole thing. And
then there's Irving. And I have to say, after all
this time, especially after this episode, Irving is still something
of a blank slate. He is still not very well
explained any or audi And I think you have to
when you if you're looking at mysteries and what you
have to look at where the holes are right in
the narrative, and Irving is one big hole. He is
one big blank space where there's certain things about him
that are not that indicate there's more than but they're
not telling you anything. You don't know even though we've
spent a couple episodes with him. What do you know
about Irving's abby, You don't know anything about it After.
Speaker 2: That conversation to dinner conversation, you know even less. I mean,
there's nothing. I mean, you don't know a.
Speaker 1: Thing about it, right, And you know a little bit
about Dylan, you know a little bit of out Mark,
you know a little bit about Helly, but Irving nothing.
There's some indication that he has a military background. Whi's
right there, Let's tell you all right, well, you know
you don't give a character a military background without for
no reason. But anyway, let's get back to.
Speaker 2: All right.
Speaker 1: So that's my whole take is that if you look
at the innies in the outys, there's differences in how
far apart their personalities are. And I think some of
that is an indication of where the show is going,
because I think some of these people would be much
better off. You know, Helena would be a better person
if she would just let Helly take the wheel. Dylan
would be a better person if he let you know, Dylan,
Dylan's any take the wheel.
Speaker 2: And it does feel like the show he's developing them,
the Aenies and audis, you know.
Speaker 1: And clearly showing that the audis are are lacking. I don't.
I think the show makes the point quite effectively that
people don't undergo severance unless there's something wrong with them.
There's some point in there, there's something in their life
they're trying to escape.
Speaker 2: Right, running away from, or trying to change.
Speaker 1: Right the broken people similar to Lost, where everybody who
was on that island was a broken person. I think
that's that's very much a severance thing, is that all
of these people are broken. There's an early aughts TV
show from Joss Whedon called Dollhouse.
Speaker 2: Yeah remember you watching?
Speaker 1: Yeah, it's it. It's really exploitive and gross in that
early aughts Joss Whedon sort of way, but it was
an interesting story about people having their their personalities wiped,
deliberately having their personalities wiped, and what sort of people
would do that. And the show lasted two seasons and
he was given time to wrap it up before it
was canceled, so it tells a complete story, and the
way the season the series progresses, it basically comes to
the conclusion that the mind wiped people are better off
than their original personalities. And I feel like that's where
Sevrance is going, where there's either going to be an
integration of these personalities or some of them are just
going to take over completely. In the case of Mark,
you want to see a sort of integration. You want
to see the sort of relatively happier version of himself
out in the outside world.
Speaker 2: Whole thing with his wife. I mean, let's not forget that.
Speaker 1: Right, and then with Helena, you're like, no, I just
want Helle to take over that body because Helene is
a monster. So all right, let's go into all the
little designations. So Helen and Mark, why don't you start
talking about Helen Mark having sex in that empty room.
Speaker 2: I thought it was interesting it clearly they're developing a
relationship here. I mean, they clearly want each other. Oh yeah, yeah,
and I think that you can see that more happening.
I don't know how he's going to deal with having
a relationship with Helen at the same time looking for
his wife.
Speaker 1: I mean, that's I don't think he's interested in looking
for his wife anymore anymore.
Speaker 2: I guess, yeah, but she keeps showing up in his head.
Speaker 1: You know, Well that's because of value Mark and his integration.
But I don't think any Mark is all that interested
in finding his wife because who's his wife? He doesn't
that's right, that doesn't mean anything to him. He doesn't
have feelings for miss Casey.
Speaker 2: I think.
Speaker 1: When they had sex in that room, I was like, wow,
anies really are naive. How could they not be naive?
They have no outside experience, But I mean, do they
really think no one's watching.
Speaker 2: They watch everything, so I'm sure they watched off.
Speaker 1: We didn't see anybody watching. But Helena Egan showed up
in that restaurant that night. She stalked him in the
outside world, which indicated to me that she knew what
happened in the She.
Speaker 2: She's clearly interested in him, So maybe that's I don't know,
maybe she sees that. Yeah, I don't know what's in
what's going on in her head. Maybe she feels like,
all right now, it's I have a chance of I
don't know when him may fight. Yeah, I tend to
be in any I.
Speaker 1: Don't think Helene Egan has much of a life right,
and I don't think there's much love in her family,
like her father clearly seems to hate her.
Speaker 2: I think she wants that life, that new life that
she discovered. You know, I don't know.
Speaker 1: She doesn't even think the Anis are people. She called
them monsters like she's not. She's not a good person.
I know she wants to exploit her in, but she
doesn't want her any She doesn't want to be her
any I don't think so she wants to be in
charge of the company. Uh. So Mark's encounter with her
in that restaurant, I think is what well, I know,
it's what spurred him on to finally have the more
extreme version of his integration done because.
Speaker 2: He understood that he's been watched these they want, they
know more than they're telling him, and he doesn't like that.
Speaker 1: Yeah, I mean, he's been doing all this corporate espionage
and suddenly the CEO of Lumen is sitting across them
at a restaurant. He's not stupid. If any might be naive,
but Mark Aubi doesn't seem to be a naive person.
Having said that he's down in his basement having a
woman split his skull open under no sort of sanitary
conditions whatsoever. That scene was hard to watch, and I
I mean sometimes that stuff does take you out of
it just a little bit, because obviously the science of
this show is not realistic. But even so, I'm like,
you can't split open someone's skull in their basement and
then tape it up. You can't do that. To be fair,
It's pretty clear that Mark ended the episode having a stroke,
so there were obviously there were repercussions to this. I
do think Regaby, the woman who split his head open,
is another is a big mystery, big mystery. Like I think,
we're so looking at Helly and Mark and a little
bit at Dylan and his wife, and I really think,
like you really need to be paying attention to people
like Regabi and Irving and Bird.
Speaker 2: It just feels like she's not telling him the whole story.
Speaker 1: There's way telling him the whole story. There's just no way.
So moving on from Mark and Helly, there's Dylan and
his wife, and she is clearly cheating on her husband.
With her husband interesting, this, this is the kind of
stuff I love. I love this sort of unpacking of
what it means to have a severed personality because she's
she's not actually cheating on her husband, just seeing the
best version of him in the slot.
Speaker 2: And she's fascinated by it.
Speaker 1: I think, I mean, yeah, he's more attentive to her,
he is infatuated with her, He is very sweet with her.
And the outside, the Aldi version of him is dismissive
and sullen and there is no emotional anything. As I said,
as I keep saying, people who want Togo Severns are
broken people, and the show was exploring the various ways
in which these characters are broke, and I guess the
endgame is how they wind up healing, you know, whether
they integrate or whether they're any takes over or whatever.
Speaker 2: I wonder if she started working for the company so
she can be with with the any version.
Speaker 1: She'd be severed, so she wouldn't get anything out of it. Yeah,
that's the thing.
Speaker 2: That's how this that's when it gets complicated.
Speaker 1: Yeah, It's like when she lied to her Ali husband
and said that they canceled the appointment, and my first
thought was, well, that's going to be easy for him
to check. And then I was like, no, actually, that's
going to be nearly impossible for the check. She's she's
got a perfect situation here.
Speaker 2: Uh. And like I.
Speaker 1: Said, there's there's you know, she's not actually cheating on
her husband, you know what I mean, She's not, but
it does bring up a lot of interesting question and uh,
that brings me to Bert and Irving. That whole scene
was fantastic because it was three really great acts, Jan
and Christopher Walking and John Noble. I mean, come on,
that doesn't get it doesn't get any better than that,
but and playing queer guys.
Speaker 2: I mean there was.
Speaker 1: Three of the least queer. Not that I had a
problem with the portrayals. They whatever, They were perfectly understandable,
but yeah, they that wasn't a very queer scene. Not
to me, it didn't feel that way. One of the
interesting things about that scene is that, uh, John Noble
starts telling a story that they start telling a story
about why Christopher Walkin's character when I underwent Severance, and
they start talking about their time in the church. They're
both you know, devout luther churchgoers, and John Noble mentions
the church's position on Severn's and I was like, as
soon as he started talking about it, I was like, well,
that's interesting. The show has never really dealt with, I guess,
not just religion, but the outside world in general. There's
you know, people are weird about Severans people or you know,
Dylan didn't get that job at the door factory because
of Severance, and so obviously people have ideas about it.
But it was one of the first times that there
was a larger cultural reference to something bigger, like, oh,
I guess the church would have a problem, it would
have you know, a yeah. And it did make me,
you know, just when they do that, it's like, well,
how far are they going to open this up? I mean,
what is what is the government stands on on Severn's
that sort of thing. But anyway, that's that's a different
set of questions. This episode was all about matters of
the heart, matters of the bodies. So three gay men
having their little polykule dinner. Clearly, Christopher Walkin is not
a good guy, and I thought that going into this episode.
Speaker 2: Right, I mean, the fact that he was kind of
stalking in a way and watching what Irving was doing,
I think more. But at the same time, you know,
you're not very clear about Irving. I mean, can you
trust Irving? Yeah? Yeah?
Speaker 1: Starting with Christopher walking he is lying about his time
with Severns because his husband let slip up that he
had been working for Luhmen for twenty years and Severns
has only been around for twelve and he tried to
cover that, but it was clearly a lie. Even Irving
just saw it for the lie that it was. So
why is he lying about his time with Luhmen?
Speaker 2: Who knows? Right? And at the same time, I don't know,
I mean I don't trust Irving. I mean what version
of Irving are we watching? And which one needs he
truly revealing right.
Speaker 1: Like I said, he is the big hole in the story.
You really don't know anything about Irving as an audie.
You know that there's some military stuff in his background,
but that's it. And I do think it's interesting any
has been killed. We have spent several episodes now with
his abbie, and we really don't know who he is,
really don't know. He clearly has an agenda, we have
no idea what that is. Like when we look at Mark,
we know exactly what Mark's agenda is. When we look
at Dylan, we know that he doesn't really have an agenda.
But when we look at Irving, he clearly has so
much going on, but we have absolutely no idea what
it is. And I really think there's a big twist
coming with Irving, that there's something about his personality, his background,
or what he's doing that has been kept from the
audience up until now. But obviously there's something going on
with that guy. I question whether Christopher Walkin was ever
severed interesting similar to Helly don't downstairs and acting.
Speaker 2: Yeah, well that's the thing once you open that door.
I mean, we don't know.
Speaker 1: One thing I want to note is that I think
the show goes to some lengths to show you that,
for instance, well not for all three of them, Irving
and Dylan and Mark, they live in rather humble houses.
They don't clearly. And then you go to Christopher Walkin's
house and it's palatial, and you think, well, okay, what
did he do for a living? Why was what did
he get paid for when he was wearing you know
what I mean? Like, the indication is immediate that he's
not just another Lumine employee.
Speaker 2: Interesting.
Speaker 1: Yeah, I think he's he's on the board or something
like that. I think he's high ranking. Granted, it's weird
because it's a small town and you, I don't know
how well these people can hide in it. But whatever,
we don't know anything about that surrounding town. It's just
always nighttime and it's always cold, and that's true.
Speaker 2: Yeah.
Speaker 1: One of the things that it should be noted is
that Irving went to dinner at Bird's house and while
he was out, that dude from Lumen from the board
broke into his house and went through his things.
Speaker 2: So he knew he was he knew he was going
to be out.
Speaker 1: This is an indication that Christopher walking is up to know.
Speaker 2: Maybe the whole dinner was planned so that he could
go right.
Speaker 1: And then the guy from from Luhmen who he's rifling
through that chest and Irving. You know, there's clearly Irving
stalking people. He is stalking Loomin employees, and so there's
something going on there. I have no idea what it is,
but I do think, uh, I think there's a big
twist coming, and I think it's probably Irving and Bert related.
There's something there that we are not being told.
Speaker 2: A great Yeah, no, I totally agree. And also I
find interesting, you know, it's a little subtle, but milkshake miltschik.
Also the whole transformation in a way that now he
wants to be, you know, more strict about everything.
Speaker 1: Yeah, that scene with him trying to reduce his vocabulary
was yeah. Interesting, And it's.
Speaker 2: Kind of sad in a way. I feel.
Speaker 1: Oh, I think it's very sad that man's a mess.
Speaker 2: Yeah, and yeah, and I don't know. And the whole
controlling I think if you when you really think about it,
you know, a company controlling how you you speak, what
you say, how you act and all that, and and cutting,
I don't know, getting rid of of your personality and
and what you can do for the company and all that,
especially as as as African American. I mean, the whole
thing is complicated. I think when you look at it
and when you're watching it right and you feel like
you're just controlling an employee in a way.
Speaker 1: That guy's going to snap.
Speaker 2: Yeah it that's as you said, that's when the show
gets interesting when they talk about when it's about the
employees and how they behave and how people behave and
and it'll be interesting to see if they continue with this,
that they then we're going to have two different worlds here,
you know, developing, So it'll be complicated but also interesting. Yeah.
Speaker 1: I think it's back on track. I think the show
is moving in a more interesting direction than it was
in the first couple episodes of the season. Like I
keep saying, I'm just not interested in things like goats
and kir and all that stuff. But when it's unpacking
the personalities and the psyches of the of these people,
I think that's when the show is at its best.
Speaker 2: So about that, no, Yeah, But like I said, the
last two episodes have been much better and more interesting,
and we'll see how it goes.
Speaker 1: Yeah, let's take a quick break and then we'll be
back to talk about The White Lotus. Yes, we're back,
and we're going to wrap things up with a check
in on the second episode of the third season of
The White Lotus. Things are cooking, things are bubbling, but
there's no I think the story is taking its time,
and I actually think that that was the case in
the previous two seasons. It's like the third or fourth
episode where things really start picking up. Right now, you're
just hanging out with these various characters.
Speaker 2: It's interesting because when I watched the first episode for
the first time, I was like, Oh, I don't know
about this, but it's it's interesting the more you watch it,
because I've watched the first episode like three times already,
and you see more things the uh more, I don't know, subtle,
you know, performances and and things here and there and
and and you appreciate it a little more. That's what
I'm trying to say here. I do think and what
I talked to you about this, I do think that
Mike White does a very good job creating a world
that it's interesting and and and that we look at
it and we criticize and then we see the flaws
and we and you know, the dialogue is very interesting
and funny and sarcastic and all that. So if you
go with that. Uh, the the only issue when we
discussed this before is that it tends to repeat every
single season.
Speaker 1: It's kind of the same formula.
Speaker 2: Yeah, it's kind of the same thing, different hotel, different city,
different country, But at the same time, it's interesting. I yeah, well,
we'll talk about the characters in general, but like I said,
I watched the episode three times already, and I'm not
interested in that family anymore. I think they're more far
more interesting characters than that main family.
Speaker 1: You know, they are, to my take, the least interesting
part of the show, because we've done this on the
White Lotos, We've done the checked out wealthy parents and
brad children storyline, and I'm not seeing anything like. All
they're doing here is adding incest and apparently some I
don't know, insider trading issue or whatever, but neither of
that interests me. I agree with you on that that
that family is just not interesting to me. The incest
thing is just I'm not I'm not titillated by that.
And I had to say, I know, people love her.
I love Parker Posi too, and I do think her
portrayal of that character is really funny. But I hope
they do something. I hope that's not it with that character,
where she's just this weirdo, drugged out mom who's checked
out all the time. I think Jason Isaacs is doing
great work. I do think that phone call with Ki
Hoi Kwan on the other end, was.
Speaker 2: She really really funny.
Speaker 1: Ho Kwan was really really funny in that phone call.
But yeah, I'm just not interested in that family. They're
just really wealthy and titled assholes and everybody. I don't care.
I hope you all get shot.
Speaker 2: They're not interesting. I think, uh, they're just yeah, not interested,
you know. I love one side three two faced bitches
drinking wine. Oh my god, I love those and we
haven't seen anything yet.
Speaker 1: I'm with Leslie Bib and Carry Cone and Michelle Monaghan.
Speaker 2: Leslie Bib, it's hysterical. I love her, Love the way
she talks, she's so funny.
Speaker 1: Love the way the three of them talk behind each
other's backs, and I just love it. It's actually really
really well done.
Speaker 2: I they're all.
Speaker 1: Great, Yeah, they're all great, and Honestly, it's the three
of them are so good together. Their dialogue is so good,
the actresses are so good. I'm like, I could just
watch the three of you being has some aggressive bitches
with the for the rest of this season. I don't
no one has to shoot you or anything like that.
I know they're fun going.
Speaker 2: Back a little bit too, uh, Parker Posy, I absolutely
worship that woman. I do. I do. I think she's phenomenal, funny,
funny as hell, But I do think she's a tiny
bit over the top number one, I think. I think so.
I think just a little little bit, a little bit, uh,
in a Jennifer kind of way, you know, like just
a little too much. Also, because I was on TikTok
and everything and when everyone was like, oh my god,
when she ordered food, her tie was perfect. Parker pos
Is tie was perfect, I was like, well, all right,
but would her character have that kind of tie?
Speaker 1: No, probably not.
Speaker 2: Probably not. So I don't know. I feel like she's
great and I'll watch her due and you know, say anything,
But at the same time, I feel it's a little
over the top, just a tiny bit.
Speaker 1: What do you think is the deal with the owner
of the of the resort, the woman who sang this episode,
and she's going off to Bangkok to see her husband.
And I mean, clearly there's a story there, but I'm
not sure what they're trying to think.
Speaker 2: Is there some political corruption of some sort, business corruption
of some sort. I think that that's the story. Uh,
that's that's that's how I feel about it.
Speaker 1: She you said you weren't impressed with her performance. I
thought it was very charming.
Speaker 2: I was. I was expecting a little better because she's fantastic. Apparently,
you know, she's big name.
Speaker 1: Is she the actress?
Speaker 2: I think so, she's famous. I don't know. I was
expecting a little better. I thought it was okay. I
don't know, we'll see. I have to say my favorite
characters are the ones played by Lisa and and and Tame.
I believe his name is Tame. Uh yeah, Tam.
Speaker 1: And gay talk, I think.
Speaker 2: Yeah, I mean he they are yeah, gay talk. They
are adorable.
Speaker 1: They are adorable together. And he is the cutest face.
Speaker 2: He is the cutest face. And the whole story with
you know, first of all, he's he's not really tie.
He's he was raised and born and raised in London,
and his parents are Tie, I believe, and he's a bodyguard.
Apparently he was a bodyguard before he got the All right, yeah,
that's the story I think. And Lisa is just phenomenal.
I'm so impressed at her.
Speaker 1: She's so cute.
Speaker 2: I am in love with her character. I thought she
was Korean. I didn't know that she's Tie, and she's
just adorable the two of them together. So I'm more
interested in the those side characters than the main people,
Like I can't stand the family, to be honest. I
feel like we'll see what they do with Natasha with
Belinda's right character.
Speaker 1: Yes, Belinda I think is going to get laid. Yeah,
that's good for her. Uh, they are taking their time
with her, like right, you know, I don't know, Like
there's just not a lot happening with her. I'm hoping
it'll pick up. She is about to recognize she doesn't
quite understand why she recognizes Greg, but she's about to
and I'm sure her story will pick up then.
Speaker 2: So that would be interesting. Now the robbery, I think.
Speaker 1: Right, so there was a hold up at the an
armed robbery at like the jewelry store on the resort
or whatever go ahead.
Speaker 2: Which we believe that it's Greg, right, probably.
Speaker 1: That was a young guy. Greg is No.
Speaker 2: I mean, I guess it's part of the thing. I
don't know.
Speaker 1: I think the Charlotte Labon's character, Greg's hooker girlfriend or whatever.
Speaker 2: It was a little suspicious, right.
Speaker 1: I think she's very suspicious. I said that from the beginning.
I was like, I think she's some sort of here's
the thing. I think you're supposed to believe that she's
Greg's next victim or something. And I actually think she
and Greg are working together, Like I think she's some
sort of con artist. Oh. Absolutely, I think she's the
one one after Chelsea, Like the way she goes after
Chelsea is and.
Speaker 2: The way they can't stand each other in a way,
like they're sort of like more of a business partnership
there than.
Speaker 1: I agree with that. So I think that whole thing
is shady. I don't know that I think they're involved.
I think that guy Valentine the.
Speaker 2: Oh right, absolute, absolutely, because he was talking to to
to the gatak at the gay Yeah, I mean, he
was clearly distracting.
Speaker 1: He seemed to be distracting him. But I think, uh, oh,
and there's someone else in the car. There's there was
a second person in that car, so there were two
people involved in that robbery. We only saw one of
them very covered up, and I think, you know, maybe
when a show goes to that length to cover up
what you're actually looking at. Clearly, whoever did that is
one of the cast. I mean we're talking about someone
in the cast.
Speaker 2: Yeah, yeah, I mean someone who knew.
Speaker 1: But I don't see Greg pulling off a robbery. I
just first off, he's wealthy. Unless he blew through all
of Tanya's money, he's wealthy, so I don't know that
he would. He's probably doing more cons but I don't
think he's robbing jewelry stores. That doesn't seem like his style. Interesting,
let's see who else? Did we cover everyone?
Speaker 2: Pretty much?
Speaker 1: I mean, I don't know what's going on with Walton Goggins,
his character and his obsession with the owner of the
I don't know what's going on there. I do think
it's interesting. He did have a rather interesting session with
that therapist where he basically said, I've never been unstressed
in my entire life.
Speaker 2: And yeah, it's interesting. I mean, clearly he wants to
kill the guy or do something.
Speaker 1: Oh, I don't know about clearly. I don't think that's
clear at all.
Speaker 2: I mean, he's trying to find out where he is, Yeah,
and he's going to Bangkok to find him. So I
don't know.
Speaker 1: I don't know that he wants to kill him, but
I will see.
Speaker 2: I don't know, as you said, and I've I've read
a couple of reviews and we all feel the same
that it's like slow, it's going slow.
Speaker 1: That's going slow. That's why before we came back for
this portion of the podcast, I said to Loren's like,
this is gonna be really short because there's just not
a lot it's gonna pick but there's right now, there's
not a lot to talk about. I don't know where
it's going.
Speaker 2: Yeah, Like I said, I watch it again and again
and I kind of appreciate it a little more because
it there are certain things that are very subtle, but
still I feel and the New York I had a
very good review about it, pretty much saying the same
that we all feel that it's the same story being
told over and over again, just it is just a
different hotel.
Speaker 1: It is at this point, it's like the Love Boat,
you know, where it's just the same story. You're just
bringing in guest stars each week. It's basically you know,
Prestige TV, Love Boat and or Fancy Island. I don't
think I have anything that left to say. I just
to return to the park oposing thing. I do adore her,
and I do think her performance is funny, but she
feels completely out of step with the rest of that family.
And if yes, I agree, Like when you look at
Jason Isaac's character, would that guy stay with that woman?
Speaker 2: Probably not? Probably not.
Speaker 1: He'd be with some younger, more you know, he wouldn't
be with some checked out, drugged out wife. And that's that's.
Speaker 2: Yeah.
Speaker 1: I love her character, but I'm not sure she actually
fits in the dynamic of that in family. Yes, you're right,
that's the part that I'm like, Yeah, she doesn't strike
me as like a wealthy Southern matriarch. She's some drugged
out boho weirdo.
Speaker 2: I think she'd be better if she was by herself,
traveling by herself, you know, with some I.
Speaker 1: Keep saying she's doing Jennifer cole Agehi, that's the problem.
You know, that's not. It's a different character, so you know.
Speaker 2: But you're right, now that I think about it, that
she does not belong to.
Speaker 1: Do those kids seem like her kids?
Speaker 2: Yeah? No, No, that.
Speaker 1: Woman raised Patrick schwarzen Anger's character. I don't see that.
Speaker 2: And he's so annoying. Really well he's supposed to be, yeah,
but I don't think he's doing a good job. I mean,
the whole thing is annoying.
Speaker 1: It's just I'm not my favorite character. Aside from those
Carrie Coon and Michelle Monaghan and Leslie Bibb. I love
Amy Leeuwood as Chelsea the British girl.
Speaker 2: Oh my god, she's perfect.
Speaker 1: She's so perfect good. She's just so good. Every line
reading is really funny and.
Speaker 2: So yes, and she's so aware of where she is
and what she means to the guy and what he
means to her. Yeah. I just love that. Yeah, she's hysterical.
Speaker 1: She's really good and we'll be back. I mean, well,
I don't have anything else to.
Speaker 2: Say about this, and I'm they did a good job
presented that whole shooting thing, because that's all I can
think about what happened there. I mean, you know, I
mean I keep thinking about monkeys now because of you.
Speaker 1: Because of you, they might either think that they might
either think the monkeys keep talking about.
Speaker 2: The monkeys all the time. Everything is over. But the monkey,
the monkey's coming. Oh my god, I couldn't sleep. Good monkey, monkey,
Monkey's monkey. So I don't know, but now that's all
I think about it. The monkey with a guy.
Speaker 1: Yeah all right, we all wrapped up.
Speaker 2: Yeah yeah, all right again. Interested, I'm gonna watch it
because it's great acting, it's great. You know, they're great people.
The story not so much. But we'll see, we'll see.
Speaker 1: We'll be back next week with whatever across our eyes,
acrosses our desks. Until then, take care of yourselves. Love
you mean it.
Speaker 2: Bye bye, bye bye