Speaker 1: Uh, casting thing, not about this, just something I've found
Speaker 1: out today when I was looking up something else on
Speaker 1: the internet and I was and I was reading about
Speaker 1: an actor who's related to another actor, and I was like,
Speaker 1: oh my god, I'll random is that?
Speaker 2: Okay, we'll get to it.
Speaker 1: There's not really a good way to segue into it.
Speaker 2: Yeah, no, I feel that, all right, Just remind me
Speaker 2: or I'll try to remind me.
Speaker 1: I'll just probably just bring it up.
Speaker 2: Yeah, yeah, in and off topic fashion exactly. Yeah. You
Speaker 2: ever watch these Marvel flicks?
Speaker 1: You got good volume? Yeah, I'm good.
Speaker 2: Yeah, okay, you ever watch these Marvel flicks, whether it's
Speaker 2: the TV shows, the movies whatever, or the special presentation
Speaker 2: special presentations. With this Punisher thing we're watching today, how
Speaker 2: much impact do you think we, as the viewers, the
Speaker 2: Cretans as I oftentimes describe us, have an impact on
Speaker 2: what ultimately ends up happening, Like when we want to
Speaker 2: see the X Men brought in, when we want this
Speaker 2: Punisher thing to be something that it ultimately isn't. Still great,
Speaker 2: but like how much of it do you think is
Speaker 2: the ultimate plan? And how much of it do you
Speaker 2: think is it? Like, well, you know what if all
Speaker 2: the viewers think we're going this way, why don't we
Speaker 2: headfake and take it over this way?
Speaker 1: Can't Mr? If I told you this, and I heard
Speaker 1: this from somebody, it was a producer or a director
Speaker 1: or somebody they're talking about. It might have been Actually,
Speaker 1: it might have been Figy. I don't think it was Figy,
Speaker 1: but it was somebody, somebody prolific in their field. And
Speaker 1: they said that if you start if the how did
Speaker 1: this go? If you make movies for the public, or
Speaker 1: if you give the people what they want see I'm
Speaker 1: butchering it there. Yeah, it's something to the effect of
Speaker 1: people don't want to watch what they want because if
Speaker 1: they did, they just make it themselves for sure. Sure, basically,
Speaker 1: so you kind of have to to. I mean, I
Speaker 1: think it's under it's it's nice knowing what the people want,
Speaker 1: but ultimately, I mean, people have a direction of what
Speaker 1: they want their art to be. And knowing that you
Speaker 1: can't please all people all the time, why would you
Speaker 1: let that creep into you know, your integrity and how
Speaker 1: you're gonna tell a story. So I think we, as
Speaker 1: the pleabs, the what did you call us, we have
Speaker 1: very little impact on what movies get made, what series
Speaker 1: get made. Ultimately, you know, the showrunner, the screenwriter. I mean,
Speaker 1: they're gonna do what they're gonna do, and ultimately they're there.
Speaker 1: I mean you think about spider Man right, where we
Speaker 1: had Paul spider Man. Yeah, sorry, Phil spider Man. I always,
Speaker 1: ever since I saw that episode of Friends, I just
Speaker 1: always say, spider Man, spider Man. You think about what
Speaker 1: we got in spider Man three, which was No Way Home. Yeah,
Speaker 1: we were, I mean just craving. Yeah, Toby maguire and
Speaker 1: Andrew Garfield to share the screen with Tom Holland, right,
Speaker 1: So eventually they had, you know, they had to give.
Speaker 2: It or what's his name as mister Fantastic in The
Speaker 2: Doctor Strange Krazinski right, Like, I feel like there are
Speaker 2: moments where they just scour Channing Tatum as dambits. Like
Speaker 2: there's moments.
Speaker 1: Although the Channing Tatum with Gambit thing that wasn't like
Speaker 1: a that was.
Speaker 2: But it's fan appeasement, you know something. But it was
Speaker 2: going to happen.
Speaker 1: That specific one. I don't think it was because I
Speaker 1: think he actually was going toe. That was for a while.
Speaker 2: Then Fox twentieth Century Fox went belly up and that
Speaker 2: kind of was the end of that.
Speaker 1: You know, I spent one night at the bar with
Speaker 1: my buddy who is also a huge superhero comics fan
Speaker 1: or whatever, and we went through and we tried to
Speaker 1: cast the X Men like you know, like the this
Speaker 1: is when the X Men came out, right, but obviously
Speaker 1: that didn't include all the X Men. Sure, yeah, And
Speaker 1: so we were like, okay, who's gonna play Juggernaut? Who's
Speaker 1: gonna you know, and we're doing like Magnetos and uh,
Speaker 1: and we got to Gambit and then you know who
Speaker 1: we settled on. And now, granted this is like early
Speaker 1: two thousands, Yeah, like Matthew McConaughey would make a great game.
Speaker 2: He would, yeah at that point.
Speaker 1: At that and not anymore. Obviously you're back to ever like,
Speaker 1: how is McConaughey not playing Gamut? So anyway, Yeah, I
Speaker 1: mean I think it goes and was the what did
Speaker 1: the Krasinski thing really affect the plot at all at all?
Speaker 1: Was that was more appeasement, like you're.
Speaker 2: Now yeah, and then going the opposite direction, Ralph Bohner,
Speaker 2: who we all thought was going to be.
Speaker 1: Uh, that was just quick silver. That was a troll job.
Speaker 1: That was rage bait, as my kids would say.
Speaker 2: Yeah, I found out, and it was us, us waiting
Speaker 2: and waiting and waiting for Mephisto to show up, and
Speaker 2: then only for him to show up in like the
Speaker 2: least Watch the Marvel thing. Ever, was it really not?
Speaker 2: It's not very was No.
Speaker 1: Did you at what I don't even know. We've talked
Speaker 1: about this. Did you at what point did you realize
Speaker 1: that was Mephisto?
Speaker 2: Yeah, we did talk about it. It took a while because
Speaker 2: I wasn't expecting it at all, and so, like, I
Speaker 2: really didn't put two and two together. I can't remember
Speaker 2: specifically because to be frank h, iron Heart was very
Speaker 2: forgettable outside of the Mefisto stuff.
Speaker 1: Yeah.
Speaker 2: So, I mean that's a problem in and of itself.
Speaker 2: And it sounds like I'm gonna say I hate this.
Speaker 2: I thoroughly enjoyed the Punisher, the last kill. It wasn't
Speaker 2: what I was expecting in this. I think you had
Speaker 2: because you are of the two of us, you always
Speaker 2: come in much more thoroughly prepared than I do in terms.
Speaker 1: Of Sometimes that's a detriment.
Speaker 2: Though I agree, that's like it's an active choice. It's
Speaker 2: not like I'm being lazy. It's like, I don't want
Speaker 2: to know any extra details about this before I go
Speaker 2: and see it, because people are too good at predicting
Speaker 2: stuff and I don't want to come across that kind
Speaker 2: of stuff. So, like, I went into yesterday expecting a
Speaker 2: quasi feature length film focusing on this iteration of the
Speaker 2: Punisher played by I always say his last name wrong.
Speaker 2: It's Burenthal Barenthal, Berhall Burnenthal, John Burnenthal, which in my opinion,
Speaker 2: is the epitome of what the Punisher is. I think
Speaker 2: he does a phenomenal job, and he did a phenomenal
Speaker 2: job in this as well. I was expecting it was
Speaker 2: going to be him escaping from his predicament at the
Speaker 2: end of Their Devil season one, and kind of like
Speaker 2: what he was doing during the entirety of Daredevil Born
Speaker 2: Again season two, where he does not show up once,
Speaker 2: where they're bringing Jessica Jones in Luke Cage all these
Speaker 2: other New York City style vigilante heroes, and he didn't
Speaker 2: show up on street level, and I kind of was
Speaker 2: expecting to get like a pretty lengthy endeavor, whereas this
Speaker 2: felt like ten year old Ben picking a random comic
Speaker 2: out of the comic story, and I kind of like
Speaker 2: this feel. Again, for the record, it's gonna sound at
Speaker 2: times like I hated this. I didn't, but he kind
Speaker 2: of felt like I grabbed a random comic that told
Speaker 2: a random story. Meanwhile, all the other comics I have
Speaker 2: are telling me the Infinity War story, and then I
Speaker 2: just get a story about this happening about this one
Speaker 2: hero who I like, separate of anything, not impacting the
Speaker 2: Uber plot in any way, just telling a nice cohesive
Speaker 2: story in forty five minutes. Maybe it says it's a
Speaker 2: fifty minute runtime, but that includes intro credits and ultro credit.
Speaker 1: I think it was forty nine. Yeah, like with and
Speaker 1: I was waiting for the spoiler alert. No no, uh
Speaker 1: no credits.
Speaker 2: No credits. But like I will say, and this will
Speaker 2: be quasi spoiler filled. As we said off the air,
Speaker 2: there's nothing to really spoil, but we're going to talk
Speaker 2: about the plot in its intimate details because there's basically
Speaker 2: two facets to this story. There's sad Frank Castle and
Speaker 2: then there's angry Frank Castle, and that that's basically.
Speaker 1: What we're dealing with. You know, I think Angry Frank
Speaker 1: Castle had to come out because of the of the
Speaker 1: plot here. That okay, so let's let's get into it. Yeah,
Speaker 1: to just just before we do, I want to echo
Speaker 1: something you said. This The whole thing felt extraneous, Like
Speaker 1: I got done watching it, I'm like, why did they
Speaker 1: make this?
Speaker 2: I think, I well, we'll get into why I think
Speaker 2: they made it, but it doesn't connect to the story
Speaker 2: at all.
Speaker 1: No, I mean even like before you and I were talking,
Speaker 1: we didn't even know for sure at what point this
Speaker 1: in the chronology, we didn't know when it was. Yeah,
Speaker 1: and we think they know, but I feel like a
Speaker 1: real world they got now you think you know, but
Speaker 1: you have no idea or not real world? What was that? Uh?
Speaker 1: True true? What was it called? Was my diary? Yeah?
Speaker 2: No, no, yeah, it wasn't my diary true life.
Speaker 1: Or true true life.
Speaker 2: I can't I know what you like, you unlocked the memory,
Speaker 2: but I don't remember what the name of it was.
Speaker 1: But anyway, so it felt extraneous because this was basically
Speaker 1: the story of Frank Castle. Like what was great about
Speaker 1: it is you didn't need to see Dared Devil Born Again.
Speaker 1: You didn't need to see The Punisher the television series. Now,
Speaker 1: and you didn't even really need to know who the
Speaker 1: Punisher was, because in forty nine minutes they put this
Speaker 1: together where you understand this is a man who clearly
Speaker 1: was was former military. I mean that they made that
Speaker 1: pretty obvious that this his family die, right, and when
Speaker 1: we found out through oh we have to talk about
Speaker 1: the sound? Was your sound weird?
Speaker 2: No?
Speaker 1: Oh, my god, then we have to talk about this.
Speaker 1: So he he basically is fighting between what do I
Speaker 1: do with my life now that my family, my whole
Speaker 1: life is gone. Do I fight back against the people
Speaker 1: that did this or people like this, you know, do
Speaker 1: I fight back? Or do I just try to live
Speaker 1: my own life? He obviously still had PTSD. Then we
Speaker 1: enter into the second act, which was we were introduced
Speaker 1: to the antagonist of the story, and then the third
Speaker 1: act sort of resolved everything. And I feel like the
Speaker 1: way that this resolved was kind of the way The
Speaker 1: Punisher season two resolved itself, right sure, you know, and
Speaker 1: and and nothing really changed in that sense, like it
Speaker 1: almost seemed like Frank Castle was was going. So the
Speaker 1: end of The Punisher season one was kind of like
Speaker 1: I think he said something like, I don't for the
Speaker 1: first time, I don't have a war to fight or
Speaker 1: something something to that. To that, and then season two
Speaker 1: obviously A War finds him again, right, and then this
Speaker 1: special A War finds him again right, And I wonder
Speaker 1: if this is just who he is now? Is is
Speaker 1: no matter if it doesn't really matter if he decides
Speaker 1: he's going to remove himself from this world of fighting
Speaker 1: and war and anger and brutality and violence, it doesn't
Speaker 1: matter if he wants to remove himself or not. He's
Speaker 1: never going to be able to remove himself from He's always,
Speaker 1: you know, we always going to be part of it.
Speaker 1: I think he said something in The Punisher season two,
Speaker 1: No he didn't, it was who is the guy Jigsaw?
Speaker 1: In season one? I think he said something before his
Speaker 1: face got all messed up. He said something like, you know,
Speaker 1: you fight long enough, These fights always get dirty. It's
Speaker 1: it's sort of the life we chose. Well, that's Frank
Speaker 1: Castle kind of in a way chose that life too.
Speaker 2: And this is a theme that.
Speaker 1: Was I don't know where it was going with that,
Speaker 1: but I just wanted to say, like this to your
Speaker 1: whole I pulled out a single comic punisher. That's kind
Speaker 1: of what this was. It was just another chapter in
Speaker 1: this larger story. You know, yes, but but it wasn't
Speaker 1: like defining at all. There's nothing there was nothing that
Speaker 1: changed the story arc. There's nothing that changed.
Speaker 2: Oh see, there was one thing that stuck. I love
Speaker 2: it very thoroughly.
Speaker 1: I love it here.
Speaker 2: And that's why I said I want to be able
Speaker 2: to talk spoilers because this is the last scene of
Speaker 2: the show that I'm about to describe. Not technically relevant
Speaker 2: to the plot in any way of the show, but
Speaker 2: the last scene. Nevertheless, he comes out decked out in
Speaker 2: his punisher gear. Yeah, and in my opinion, and correct
Speaker 2: me if I'm wrong, because I've seen the show. I
Speaker 2: loved the show. Haven't seen it in a while, it's
Speaker 2: been like seven years. Yeah, and I didn't rewatch it
Speaker 2: or anything like that. For the purposes. What stuck out
Speaker 2: to me about the ending of this of that this
Speaker 2: particular special was he comes across a guy act like
Speaker 2: a jag off yep, and what he's doing is sucks,
Speaker 2: but it doesn't suck as much as something he did
Speaker 2: earlier in the show by a country mile and Frank
Speaker 2: Castle shows up, sees that he's doing something that sucks,
Speaker 2: is about to kill him and kind of has like
Speaker 2: a come to Jesus moment. He's like, Okay, what he's
Speaker 2: doing right here does not deserve death, and he kind
Speaker 2: of lets him go and he runs away. Then the
Speaker 2: homeless Man's like, actually, he did a lot more to
Speaker 2: me than just take my hat, and he's like oh,
Speaker 2: and then he blows his face off. Yeah, once he
Speaker 2: realizes what's going on. And to me as the viewer,
Speaker 2: that says, Okay, we're about to see this grizzled character
Speaker 2: in a much more kid friendly version of himself in
Speaker 2: a Spider Man movie, and we are showing you through
Speaker 2: the purposes of his growth during this forty five minute period,
Speaker 2: that he is no longer the kill everything everyone all
Speaker 2: the time immediately in front of me for every infraction,
Speaker 2: Frank Castle, this is a guy who has come to
Speaker 2: grips with what he is, knows what his purpose is
Speaker 2: in life. And if you see it with Spider Man
Speaker 2: not wantonly killing everybody, that is in line with the
Speaker 2: new with this version of the Punisher right now.
Speaker 1: And that's a valid point, but I still think you could,
Speaker 1: as the viewer, you could take it to the opposite
Speaker 1: and say, ultimately, what's the last thing we see is
Speaker 1: him wasting this guy. Yes, so you could be you
Speaker 1: could you could also take from that being that, Okay,
Speaker 1: maybe there's been some evolving here, but he's still who
Speaker 1: he is. Yes, because ultimately the last thing we see
Speaker 1: as the viewer, and that the that the that the
Speaker 1: screenwriter and the director wanted us to see, was him
Speaker 1: killing a guy.
Speaker 2: But so that's that's having your cake and eating it too.
Speaker 2: Then right, we can.
Speaker 1: Watch Spider Man, Well.
Speaker 2: He didn't kill anyone there, and then the next time
Speaker 2: he kills him when it's like, ah, well, he's still
Speaker 2: so like he can go a full nine two hour
Speaker 2: movie and not be the real punisher and you don't
Speaker 2: feel like you broke character. And then the second you
Speaker 2: see him in Daredevil's season three and he is just
Speaker 2: waxing people again, and you're like, well, we we've we've
Speaker 2: crossed a rubicon here and you know, now people gotta
Speaker 2: get whacked.
Speaker 1: I I really wish he would, and I hope it
Speaker 1: was a scheduling thing that he wasn't in season two,
Speaker 1: because season two of Born Again was more so than
Speaker 1: season one, was this fight, internal fight that Matt Murdoch
Speaker 1: had about how he doesn't want to take lives you know,
Speaker 1: even though he should when when Bullseye is begging him
Speaker 1: to and he doesn't, when Karen Page is is incredulous
Speaker 1: that he's not any old.
Speaker 2: Buck and Daniels situation. That's across all those characters exactly.
Speaker 2: They're struggling.
Speaker 1: And Frank Castle was just like, you know, black and white,
Speaker 1: no gray area. And we saw that a little bit
Speaker 1: in season one, right, and I thought season two would
Speaker 1: have been even better.
Speaker 2: But whatever, Yeah, and he was for the record, this
Speaker 2: special in no way addresses why he wasn't in season
Speaker 2: two exactly. And can you remember so is the Nucci
Speaker 2: family was the scene? So that's like the main antagonist.
Speaker 1: I was going to ask you, is it Nucci or Ganucci? Nucci?
Speaker 1: It is Nucci? Okay?
Speaker 2: Were they the antagonists in either of the seasons, Like
Speaker 2: we're all those deaths of the show.
Speaker 1: No, I think this is fresh now, it's I believe
Speaker 1: it's comic lore that Frank Castle hilled these I didn't
Speaker 1: realize he killed her husband. I thought he just killed
Speaker 1: the sons. Sure, so so that was new to me.
Speaker 1: So Maganucci do you know who played Maganucci special? Judith Light?
Speaker 1: Do you know who Judith Light? Is Judith Light played
Speaker 1: Angela opposite Tony Danza on Who's the Boss? Oh wow? Yeah,
Speaker 1: Now I would not have recognized her at all. Uh
Speaker 1: And then and I knew she was in this playing
Speaker 1: Maganucci beforehand, so I knew it was her. He does
Speaker 1: more research than I do. But yeah, if you looked
Speaker 1: at it, I mean, like there's you can't tell. I mean,
Speaker 1: knowing that it was her, I could kind of tell, oh, yeah,
Speaker 1: that's Judith. I obviously super old now, I mean she
Speaker 1: was in her you know, forties in the eighties when
Speaker 1: she was on Who's the Boss song.
Speaker 2: And I barely watched that show, So I don't think
Speaker 2: I ever would have made like, there's no amount of
Speaker 2: I would.
Speaker 1: I couldn't. I couldn't name one other thing that she's in.
Speaker 1: Yeah sure, yeah yeah.
Speaker 2: And so like obviously though, and like full full uh
Speaker 2: full disclosure here, Like I love the Thomas Jane Punisher movie.
Speaker 2: I loved the uh what's that dude's name? The Punisher
Speaker 2: war Zone. I was surprised how much I ended up
Speaker 2: liking that movie. I actually took me a couple of times.
Speaker 2: But I'm not gonna claim to be the biggest expert
Speaker 2: on Punisher Lore. Outside of the movies in the series
Speaker 2: that were publicized, they went out of their way to
Speaker 2: make sure you noticed that ma Nucci is still alive
Speaker 2: in Kicking, which leads me to believe it's not the
Speaker 2: last time we're going to be coming across her, whether
Speaker 2: that be in the Spider Man movie or another season
Speaker 2: of something on this Disney Plus show.
Speaker 1: I would have met. Yeah, I don't know how they're
Speaker 1: gonna work because in the comics, again, I'm probably as
Speaker 1: well versed or not as well versed as you are,
Speaker 1: so both of us are kind of a blind a
Speaker 1: little bit when it comes to Punisher Cannon. But it's
Speaker 1: my understanding that she is a super villain from Marvel
Speaker 1: with her the main she's mainly been the enemy of
Speaker 1: the Punisher, sure, like that's who who she battles.
Speaker 2: The more it strikes me out, like the Falcones are
Speaker 2: like always screwing around with Batman like in the background,
Speaker 2: and it's like, but realistically, Scarecrows the main threat, but
Speaker 2: like the Falcones are off jerking around somewhere and it's like,
Speaker 2: all right, I gotta be aware that they're doing stuff.
Speaker 2: But this is definitely tier six stuff compared to the
Speaker 2: obvious thing going on here. That's kind of what she
Speaker 2: strikes me as. But I feel like they really went
Speaker 2: out of their way. I think she was a very
Speaker 2: cool character, like the quasi handicapped, bad badass, like like, oh, like,
Speaker 2: this woman really doesn't have her wits about her, and
Speaker 2: I can tell that people are still very scared of
Speaker 2: who she is and what she represents. And she did
Speaker 2: a great job of kind of conveying that kind of
Speaker 2: frustration in the back and forth there. When it was
Speaker 2: called one last Kill, I mean, I think it was
Speaker 2: pretty clearly supposed to be him, based on the way
Speaker 2: the plot was going on. But then once she got involved,
Speaker 2: I'm like, oh, it's her. And then when she didn't vibe,
Speaker 2: I was like, well, what's all this one last kill?
Speaker 1: Bullshits?
Speaker 2: It seems like we got plenty of kills coming out
Speaker 2: way here.
Speaker 1: In the comic sma Nucci and I can't remember exactly
Speaker 1: how it happens. I don't know if it's a bomb
Speaker 1: or something, but somehow punisher her he either chops them
Speaker 1: off off or something happens and there's an explosion and
Speaker 1: she loses both her arms and legs, so she's basically
Speaker 1: a torso in the comic Spider. And then at the
Speaker 1: end when he finally kills her, there's like a flaming
Speaker 1: house or something, and she like crawls out of it,
Speaker 1: and all she can do is bite him on the leg.
Speaker 2: Because that's what else she gonna do.
Speaker 1: Sure, and he just stares down at her, and he
Speaker 1: just kicks her body into the fire and she burns alive.
Speaker 1: That's how that's how Mannucci reaches her end in the
Speaker 1: Punish Your comic.
Speaker 2: Yeah, I hope they take it there. I don't think
Speaker 2: they have the guts to do that, but I'm here
Speaker 2: hoping that that's where this ultimately ends up here.
Speaker 1: But I have to talk about the sound. Oh yeah,
Speaker 1: hit me with it. This is interesting. I was watching
Speaker 1: this in my basement on Disney Plus, and my my
Speaker 1: son sleeps through anything, but my daughter and my wife
Speaker 1: are both light sleepers. And I kept getting phone calls
Speaker 1: from my wife, can you turn that down? Can you
Speaker 1: turn that down? And I couldn't because there was something
Speaker 1: messed up with the sound on on I don't know
Speaker 1: it was my TV or what. I don't know how
Speaker 1: to adjust it because like the loud explosion stuffs were
Speaker 1: really loud, and then the talking and the dialogue shit
Speaker 1: very muffled.
Speaker 2: Yeah, and you didn't pick up on this, so I'll
Speaker 2: be honest with you now that you're mentioning it, I realized.
Speaker 2: So after it ended, I just threw something else on
Speaker 2: Disney Plus on to go to bed too, and it
Speaker 2: was one of the you know, I, oh, it was
Speaker 2: X Men Apocalypse.
Speaker 1: Nice.
Speaker 2: I threw X Men Apocalypse on, and I remember I
Speaker 2: threw it on and then I went to the bathroom
Speaker 2: to go and brush my teeth, and I had to
Speaker 2: actually walk out while I was brushing my teeth to
Speaker 2: turn it down because I was like, man, that is
Speaker 2: blowing out my ear drums. I was like, was I
Speaker 2: listening to it that loud?
Speaker 1: Yeah?
Speaker 2: And it didn't register with me the entire time, And
Speaker 2: maybe I didn't notice what the explosions made my neighbors
Speaker 2: fricking hate me.
Speaker 1: I have no idea, but I.
Speaker 2: Noticed it after I put literally anything else on. I'm like, man,
Speaker 2: I really had that volume cranking.
Speaker 1: So I went on X like while this is going on,
Speaker 1: because I was getting really annoyed, and I'm like, when
Speaker 1: man Nucci's talking, it's like you can't and like describing,
Speaker 1: like what happened, you know why she's so mad. I couldn't.
Speaker 1: I couldn't. I couldn't understand everything. So I went on
Speaker 1: X and other people were complaining about the sound as well. Interesting,
Speaker 1: like this was not my TV, this was not my
Speaker 1: sound setup, this was a Disney Plus thing. And then
Speaker 1: somebody brought up, oh, maybe this is because of the
Speaker 1: PTSD that we're brought into sure to open it. Maybe
Speaker 1: this is all stuff that's kind of permeating Frank Castle's
Speaker 1: brain but not totally like he's he's in a daze
Speaker 1: or there's other stuff he's focused on, and maybe that
Speaker 1: was the case. I found it really annoying. Yeah, but
Speaker 1: I was super ticked off.
Speaker 2: Oh we we filmed that night Walker battle super Dark,
Speaker 2: so it felt like you were in the battle. Yeah, okay, great.
Speaker 2: I would have loved to be able to see what
Speaker 2: was happening, and this is kind of a similar.
Speaker 1: I mean, I don't know, I know it wasn't just me,
Speaker 1: and if this was a decision by the director or whoever. Yeah,
Speaker 1: I think it was a bad one. Yeah, and I
Speaker 1: feel like I just I feel like it ruined some
Speaker 1: of the enjoyment for me, and.
Speaker 2: I found the entire post traumatic stress like I mean,
Speaker 2: you know me, I like the psychological stuff. And when
Speaker 2: they were doing the stuff with like the apparitions, and
Speaker 2: it was like, wait, are you really here?
Speaker 1: Of course I'm here.
Speaker 2: No, it turns out they're not here, and like around
Speaker 2: and around and around, and I thought it was very
Speaker 2: well done, and I think they went out of their way.
Speaker 2: They touched on this in the finale to the first
Speaker 2: season of Daredevil Born Again. But there's a certain element
Speaker 2: of people that have latched onto the Punisher that aren't
Speaker 2: the best people, and they take all the worst parts
Speaker 2: out of the Punisher character. And I think a lot
Speaker 2: of Punisher lore much like the exactly what do you
Speaker 2: mean by that? I mean there are people that are like, yeah,
Speaker 2: I'm like the Punisher, but like you're supposed to be
Speaker 2: watching the Punisher, not wanting to be the Punisher. Yeah,
Speaker 2: Like I always say, with like Rick and Morty, which
Speaker 2: is a very famous cartoon, the main character Rick is
Speaker 2: like a very sad, depressed character, and there's a lot
Speaker 2: of people that watch Rick and Morty being like, yeah,
Speaker 2: I'm like Rick, there's no system. It's like, no, you don't.
Speaker 2: You're not supposed to want to be Rick. And I
Speaker 2: think this movie, or this special, I think did the
Speaker 2: best job with the Punisher being like, no, just because
Speaker 2: you're mad about crime or whatever it is, doesn't mean
Speaker 2: you're the punisher. Like he hates that he's this way,
Speaker 2: to the point that he doesn't even want to live
Speaker 2: this way anymore, and saw it. That's what I'm saying,
Speaker 2: And like that. I think they did a very good
Speaker 2: job of conveying that in this story, being like, no,
Speaker 2: if you're walking around with your Punisher logo mad about
Speaker 2: the homeless population, like, you're not the Punisher, You're just
Speaker 2: a bit of a jag off, and like, I think
Speaker 2: trying to really hammer that point home with this. And
Speaker 2: I think they did a really good job, because there
Speaker 2: was nothing glamorous about being the Punisher in this from
Speaker 2: top to bottom up until even the very last second
Speaker 2: where it looks like he's getting a little bit of
Speaker 2: a recognition. You can tell he's still not happy in
Speaker 2: the situation he's in even at that point.
Speaker 1: I think it comes back to I don't you know
Speaker 1: Peter Parker's whole thing is with great power comes great responsibility,
Speaker 1: And I think there's a certain and that's why it's
Speaker 1: gonna be cool to see him and punish her in yeah,
Speaker 1: in Hulk, not in Hulk, but most of Punisher because
Speaker 1: Hulk is totally different. But what's the name of the movie,
Speaker 1: Brand New Day. It's gonna be interesting to see those
Speaker 1: guys because they have you know, with great power comes
Speaker 1: great responsibility. And I think Frank Castle, when we saw
Speaker 1: on this, especially towards the end, where he has he
Speaker 1: has to make this choice between sort of vengeance and
Speaker 1: letting life live.
Speaker 2: He chooses life.
Speaker 1: You know what I mean. And and so I think
Speaker 1: that there's a certain sense of, like, you know what,
Speaker 1: what has happened to him, nobody deserves. But at the
Speaker 1: same time, I think that he feels given in the
Speaker 1: same way Peter Parker, like how it happened at the
Speaker 1: end of No Way Home. He has nobody now, right, Yeah,
Speaker 1: Frank Castle has nobody.
Speaker 2: And I didn't even put that together, but that's definitely
Speaker 2: gonna thematically try into the movie. You're absolutely right.
Speaker 1: And I mean, I'm I'm sure they don't have each other.
Speaker 1: I don't think they look at each other like that. No, absolutely,
Speaker 1: I think they look at like look I've I've clearly
Speaker 1: somebody has put me into this place and given me
Speaker 1: this life, and I'm supposed to do something with it.
Speaker 1: I can't just sit because neither one of them is
Speaker 1: the type that would sit idly by and feel sorry
Speaker 1: for themselves. You know. It's either it's either I'm going
Speaker 1: to do as much good as I can, or I'm
Speaker 1: going to end it, you know. And that was the
Speaker 1: decision Frank Castle had to make too.
Speaker 2: Yeah, which is a theme they've revisited or visited in
Speaker 2: The Thomas Jane Punisher as well. That's what happens after
Speaker 2: he killed John Travolta. He's like, well, why else do
Speaker 2: why am I here? And then he just like in
Speaker 2: the show, he remembers Rebecca Rene Stamos and those two
Speaker 2: dweebs that are his neighbors, and like the fond memory.
Speaker 2: She's like, ah, you know what, And in this one
Speaker 2: he manages he can't save his own family, but he
Speaker 2: can save other families and that's kind of the growth
Speaker 2: that he has there. And it's like, I can't imagine,
Speaker 2: and like, that's gonna be such a strange I never
Speaker 2: put that together, But thematically they really are in the
Speaker 2: exact same place, which makes so much sense.
Speaker 1: There's been and none are coming to my head right now,
Speaker 1: But there's been a lot of people superheroes that are
Speaker 1: like everything everybody I get close to or everybody I touch,
Speaker 1: bad stuff happens. Yeah, which is you know, a reason
Speaker 1: why you wear the mask, right, so to protect those
Speaker 1: people or whatever. But I mean, there is no character
Speaker 1: at least that I can think of. Maybe I'm wrong,
Speaker 1: Maybe you'll call me out on this. Yeah, there's no
Speaker 1: character that I can think of. It's specifically in the MCU,
Speaker 1: maybe in comics overall that has had such an intense
Speaker 1: mental such intense mental anguish that Frank Castle did. Right now,
Speaker 1: I think that you know, he comes up up and
Speaker 1: he he basically is like a hitman, right, yeah, kind
Speaker 1: of that he comes up so obviously there's there's some
Speaker 1: desensiti desensitization there when it comes to that. But to
Speaker 1: have your family brutally murdered, right, and then how does
Speaker 1: that affect you? Like, I can't imagine how that would
Speaker 1: affect me. I think about Clyde whatever his name was
Speaker 1: from law abiding citizen mm hm, dude was awesome. He
Speaker 1: was a great guy. And then all of a sudden
Speaker 1: he turned into the psychopath that you know, and and
Speaker 1: Frank Castle, I just I think he views human life
Speaker 1: in a much different vein now. And I think that
Speaker 1: that battle that he fights still, I mean, it never
Speaker 1: stops in his head. And I think that's what was
Speaker 1: so great about the special was how much they drove
Speaker 1: that home that that not only should you not want
Speaker 1: to be the Punisher, you don't understand how the punisher
Speaker 1: does just continues. How can how can one human being
Speaker 1: take on all this much, create this much violence, create
Speaker 1: this much brutality, and then still keep still keep going
Speaker 1: at some point that that thing has to turn off
Speaker 1: you just you can't be like that, right, And somehow
Speaker 1: he is, and he has been for quite a while.
Speaker 1: But it's not.
Speaker 2: Easy, absolutely not. And I think the reason it feels
Speaker 2: so fresh and unique because what you're describing is not
Speaker 2: unique to comics. But I'll tell you the other characters
Speaker 2: that go through exactly what you're describing. Thor goes through that,
Speaker 2: Dad dies, mom dies, had to kill his sister, brother dies,
Speaker 2: best friend dies, half the world gets snapped out of existence.
Speaker 2: Wolverine goes through that Jane Jane dies, Yes, exactly Wolverine
Speaker 2: goes through that had to kill Jean Gray.
Speaker 1: By the way, just just real quick, Yeah, Loki died twice.
Speaker 2: Technically three times technically Wolverine, Wolverine, though he has to
Speaker 2: kill Jean Gray, he watches Charles Xavier die. By the
Speaker 2: end of Logan, everybody's gone. Superman, you, you, all of
Speaker 2: these characters. The reason you have to do it this
Speaker 2: way is because the characters themselves can't feel pain. Wolverine
Speaker 2: always thors a demigod. Superman is basically a god on earth.
Speaker 2: The Punisher feels unique because it's basically like, we're gonna
Speaker 2: take this regular guy that we could kill at any moment,
Speaker 2: and actually he's going to keep living for no reason
Speaker 2: other than he's going to keep living nothing to do
Speaker 2: with the plot, and we're still going to take everything
Speaker 2: else away from him. And there's a human element because
Speaker 2: they do that to the non human characters to humanize them.
Speaker 2: When you do it to an already human character, it's
Speaker 2: basically like, let's do Batman instead of killing his parents,
Speaker 2: kill his whole family. And also he doesn't have a
Speaker 2: whole bunch of money, and then we're gonna turn that
Speaker 2: into a show here and I think that's why it
Speaker 2: feels so fresh, is it takes a bunch of stuff
Speaker 2: that we've seen done a thousand times over in comics,
Speaker 2: but brings it down to the most human, base level
Speaker 2: emotion that I think you can possibly feel, because none
Speaker 2: of us know how we would react in that situation,
Speaker 2: and more importantly, none of us have the punisher's skills.
Speaker 2: So even if you wanted to be a punisher, you
Speaker 2: probably you couldn't be what was his name in law Biden,
Speaker 2: citizen Claus, what's his face hide something? I can't remember
Speaker 2: his last name, but like he for ten years put
Speaker 2: his super military brain into concocting this perfect scheme in
Speaker 2: order to do what he needed to do. Most of
Speaker 2: us don't have those genes, or at least we don't
Speaker 2: realize we do until we're pushed into that corner. And
Speaker 2: that's that's what the Punisher is here. He never comes
Speaker 2: out of this, and this is no different. He's always
Speaker 2: been shot four times by the time I remember in
Speaker 2: the show, every episode, it's like he caught three more
Speaker 2: bullets over the course of that moment, and he just
Speaker 2: keeps on going.
Speaker 1: It's like the.
Speaker 2: Realistically, it's a weird comparison to make. But he's like Jigsaw,
Speaker 2: not the villain Jigsaw from fucking Saw yea. Like when
Speaker 2: he got diagnosed with cancer, he drove his car off
Speaker 2: a cliff to kill himself, and he pulls himself out
Speaker 2: of the wreckage. He's got a giant piece of metal
Speaker 2: sticking out of his abdomen, and he found the desire
Speaker 2: to live. And in this special Yesterday, he goes from
Speaker 2: having the gun in his mouth to like, I'm gonna
Speaker 2: kill sixty people to make sure I don't die. And
Speaker 2: he went from I'm about to do it myself to
Speaker 2: cold day in hell, I'm gonna let you do this
Speaker 2: for me, and you kind of watch it happen over
Speaker 2: this fan of forty minutes, which is basically the how
Speaker 2: Jigsaw was created.
Speaker 1: What I love it? What do you think because I
Speaker 1: never really I mean, I know the moment where he
Speaker 1: starts fighting back, What do you think that was? What
Speaker 1: do you think ultimately drove him to be like I'm
Speaker 1: I'm gonna not only I'm gonna keep going, I'm going
Speaker 1: to unleash hell on these people.
Speaker 2: I don't know if he's petty enough, but to me
Speaker 2: and the dialogue, what stuck out. Was the last thing
Speaker 2: ma Nucci says to him is when you breathe your
Speaker 2: last breath. No, it was the Nucciese that sent you there.
Speaker 2: And in my mind, I'm like, is he sitting there
Speaker 2: thinking like if I'm gonna die, it's gonna because yeah,
Speaker 2: and that was how I read that, And so right
Speaker 2: there he was like, well, no you won't. Good luck
Speaker 2: and help out those villains. By the way, it just
Speaker 2: felt like, I don't know, I kind of liked it,
Speaker 2: but it just kind of felt like normal people.
Speaker 1: They are normal people. I mean, they're they're they're from
Speaker 1: a crime family obviously, and I got the I got
Speaker 1: the feeling that they they were losing their power already
Speaker 1: when he started.
Speaker 2: Yes, yes, I agree with you, and all these people
Speaker 2: just kind of felt like, like normally in these kind
Speaker 2: of movies, like even the Henchmen have like a general
Speaker 2: evilness vibe to them, whereas this it just felt like
Speaker 2: I normally drive a truck, but I also a'm affiliated
Speaker 2: with the mob, and now I have a knife and
Speaker 2: I'm gonna kill the punch of Like it didn't feel
Speaker 2: like a villain. It just felt like normal dudes living
Speaker 2: in an apartment complex. Yeah. It was very reminiscent of
Speaker 2: the the Carl Urban Dread Redo, just like you're in
Speaker 2: a complex, like good luck getting out, and like one
Speaker 2: mob boss is sending everybody after you. And that was
Speaker 2: the whole second half of this movie, and it delivered,
Speaker 2: delivered in spades. I was into it the entire time.
Speaker 1: I was too into it because all of a sudden,
Speaker 1: like as he's I think that final shot is a
Speaker 1: shot of I think we're looking up at him mm hmm. Yeah,
Speaker 1: and I was like, oh god, no, no, no, yeah,
Speaker 1: and then it ended. You know, I was like, I
Speaker 1: was really and it was I don't know, dude, it
Speaker 1: kind of I wish this would have been a feature
Speaker 1: length film.
Speaker 2: I agree.
Speaker 1: I think there is more story to tell. They they
Speaker 1: did what they could in forty nine minutes. It got
Speaker 1: the job done. Initially I was I was really ticked off.
Speaker 1: Yeah I was. I was super upset at what. I'm like,
Speaker 1: that's it. Really.
Speaker 2: There was too much hype for it.
Speaker 1: Maybe too, but I mean we always knew it was
Speaker 1: gonna be fifty minutes, like we always like, I didn't oh,
Speaker 1: I mean it was yeah, we talked about this. I said, yeah, you.
Speaker 2: Said it's not a movie, but I'm like, oh, okay,
Speaker 2: so it'll be like an hour and ten minutes, Like
Speaker 2: it won't be because even like episodes of Daredevil are
Speaker 2: over an hour, like this is. This was such a
Speaker 2: like I'm like, man, you've been advertising this for a
Speaker 2: year and a half, creating all this buzz about it,
Speaker 2: and like it really doesn't answer anything like you highlighted.
Speaker 2: It's just like it exists, and it exists in a
Speaker 2: nice way. It was a good story.
Speaker 1: Yeah, it was fine. It was a fine story.
Speaker 2: Much like I know, I should have looked it up.
Speaker 2: I meant to look it up. It's just like the
Speaker 2: black and white thing that Marvel did, like I always.
Speaker 1: Saw the weird thing. Yeah, this was the third one.
Speaker 1: The first one they did was that monster thing with
Speaker 1: I don't know, I can't remember that Gabriel Garcia. What's
Speaker 1: his name? I have no idea, Gabriel Gail Garcia or something.
Speaker 1: I can't remember what his name was. He was the
Speaker 1: star of that. Yeah, and who's who's the star? I
Speaker 1: didn't look up the cast. Oh well he was the
Speaker 1: main guy obviously. The you know, as all these monster
Speaker 1: hunters are convening in.
Speaker 2: Gail Garcia Bernal.
Speaker 1: Okay there, Jack Russell Bernal, I think yeah. So anyway,
Speaker 1: that was the first one, you know what. The second
Speaker 1: one was Guardians of the Galaxy Holiday Special. Oh. I
Speaker 1: didn't watch it. It came out four years ago.
Speaker 2: I did watch it, and it actually had a lot
Speaker 2: more production value than I was expecting to be frank, And.
Speaker 1: You know what was great about that. The big reveal
Speaker 1: I think that we got in it was that we
Speaker 1: found out that Mantis and star Lord our brother and sister.
Speaker 2: Yeah, and they mentioned that there's an Offhan mentioned in
Speaker 2: Guardians three, right, that kind of like pays off on
Speaker 2: that a little bit, which is not which is if
Speaker 2: you watched it, you knew, right exactly. But yeah, and
Speaker 2: all of these are inoffensive. But you know what, I
Speaker 2: didn't rewatch either of those, and I'm probably not going
Speaker 2: to rewatch this either, just because it came, it went.
Speaker 2: It was entertaining, and maybe that says something about the
Speaker 2: connectivity of Marvel and what it does to our brains
Speaker 2: when it doesn't connect. But uh uh, I mean the
Speaker 2: Batman is going to be fighting an uphill battle, as
Speaker 2: James Gunn says, yeah, this is actually separate of the DCU,
Speaker 2: but we're still going to keep this Batman Reeves universe going.
Speaker 2: They're entertaining movies. But if there's a whole separate Batman
Speaker 2: thing actually connected to the overarching plot, all of a sudden,
Speaker 2: you're gonna have, like, I don't know, like these these
Speaker 2: connected universes, they definitely diminish when you want to go
Speaker 2: outside of the wheelhouse, which is exactly what comics always did.
Speaker 2: Like comics would have the main arching thread and they'd
Speaker 2: have all these comics that come out, but they'd be like,
Speaker 2: ohso here's like this this random shit as well, just
Speaker 2: like in case you just want a one off and
Speaker 2: not be a like be consumed by all of us.
Speaker 2: And DC was actually much more notorious for that in
Speaker 2: the comic book world than Marvel was. Like here's Batman
Speaker 2: the killing joke, and this has this isn't connected to anything,
Speaker 2: and once it's over, it has nothing to do with anything,
Speaker 2: and just enjoy this.
Speaker 1: Story for what it is. So is James Gun going
Speaker 1: to have a separate Batman though? Yeah, Wow, that won't
Speaker 1: be confusing.
Speaker 2: At all, I'm saying, And like you and I are
Speaker 2: into this, Like I'm sitting there trying to explain it
Speaker 2: to my dad. I'm like, this is gonna be where
Speaker 2: you check out, isn't it? Like this is this is
Speaker 2: gonna be where we've hit a limit where it doesn't
Speaker 2: even matter.
Speaker 1: I did see just real quick. Yeah, the Batman is
Speaker 1: now Batman Part two or the Batman two, whatever they're
Speaker 1: calling it. It's not gonna come out till next year.
Speaker 1: Makes it the longest between any Batman sequel. That's actually
Speaker 1: crazy when you think about it, because you think about
Speaker 1: how long we waited for Dark Knight Rises after Dark Knight. Yeah,
Speaker 1: that was a long time. This is going to be longer.
Speaker 2: Yeah, it's not or I was even thinking from Mister
Speaker 2: Freeze Batman to Batman Begins feels like a long one.
Speaker 1: Well, but that that was that was longer. But I'm
Speaker 1: saying like the connected like because because Batman Begins was
Speaker 1: not a sequel chair to but what was that called
Speaker 1: Batman and Robin. Yeah, I'm saying like in the same
Speaker 1: whatever you want to call it.
Speaker 2: You know, there was supposed to be a fifth one,
Speaker 2: but Batman and Robin did so poorly they scrapped it,
Speaker 2: and scaret Crow is going to be the bad guy
Speaker 2: and he was going to make all the villains were
Speaker 2: gonna come back visions and like Jack Nicholson and Danny
Speaker 2: DeVito and all these guys, and Batman was going to
Speaker 2: be fighting all of his cast I don't think. I
Speaker 2: think Batman and Robin was such a dumpster fire. They
Speaker 2: were like, you know what, people hate this superhero stuff.
Speaker 2: Let's just move on.
Speaker 1: So the first one, first two were.
Speaker 2: Keaton, yeah, and more importantly Tim Burton, and then they
Speaker 2: got rid of Burton, went Schumacher and then and.
Speaker 1: Then the third one was Val Kilmo yeah, which.
Speaker 2: I have a soft spot for for Jim Carrey, and
Speaker 2: then you know, kind of goes off the I thought
Speaker 2: he did great. I stand bye. He's the best Riddler still.
Speaker 2: I mean, who else was there? I mean there was
Speaker 2: Paul Paul Dan Compared was like, oh he killed it.
Speaker 2: I'm like, honestly, I think Jim Carrey did. I like
Speaker 2: the Jim Carrey version.
Speaker 1: Yeah, I do too. There is there is more of
Speaker 1: a I don't know. I don't think Ridler was his
Speaker 1: Riddler was so dark, and I mean everything was dark
Speaker 1: in that yeah, in that Batman movie. But like, I
Speaker 1: think Riddler from the comics was a little touched a
Speaker 1: lot touched in the head, and that's how Jim Carrey
Speaker 1: played it, you know, Yeah, and so I don't. I
Speaker 1: just thought that was true. It's more cartoony, but I
Speaker 1: think it's more true to Yeah, it.
Speaker 2: Was comic bookie, And I mean Jill Schumacher very famously
Speaker 2: would go around set saying, remember, we're filming a live
Speaker 2: action cartoon. He kept saying that all the time because
Speaker 2: the first the studio was so mad after Batman returns
Speaker 2: there like, we cannot sell toys for any of this shit?
Speaker 2: What were you thinking making the penguin what he was?
Speaker 2: You're out of here? And like they went out of
Speaker 2: their way to really ham up the colorfulness of the
Speaker 2: third and fourth one, in my opinion, to its detriment.
Speaker 2: But uh yeah, what does that say about how I
Speaker 2: grew up?
Speaker 1: I suppose? And then what happens like every everything after
Speaker 1: that becomes dirty and grimy in DC. Oh yeah, for
Speaker 1: all the stuff that came out out, yeah, well I
Speaker 1: should say everything, but most of it really funny.
Speaker 2: Last aside, and then we can stop talking about Batman.
Speaker 2: Have you seen the picture of the Trivial Pursuit question
Speaker 2: card that went viral? Because it's asking which one of
Speaker 2: these actors did not play Batman? Okay, Adam West, Michael Keaton,
Speaker 2: Val Kilmer, George Clooney, Christian Bale or Ben Affleck all
Speaker 2: of them play. And you're sitting there and you're like,
Speaker 2: what kind of TYPEO is this? And it came out
Speaker 2: in twenty thirteen, the card dish.
Speaker 1: Oh my god, how weird is that? That is wild? Yeah? Right,
Speaker 1: that's not ai. That's not something that a leit viral.
Speaker 2: And I'm sitting there and I'm like what Because I
Speaker 2: didn't read the comments, I'm like, what's this bullshit? I'm like,
Speaker 2: all these people like, you're not You're not making me
Speaker 2: second guess myself. Then like all of a sudden, I'm
Speaker 2: reading comments are like they need to make a new
Speaker 2: one and have it say Robert Pattinson. I'm like, I
Speaker 2: still don't get it. He's also Batman. Yeah, and uh
Speaker 2: and now and now and then I've put it together there.
Speaker 1: But I just thought that was very that is that
Speaker 1: is wild?
Speaker 2: Ye?
Speaker 1: What was I going to say now about? Oh? I
Speaker 1: think I think he was on Fallon or Conan. I
Speaker 1: can't remember when Affleck got officially cast and became public
Speaker 1: that he was going to be playing Batman, and the
Speaker 1: Affleck or whoever the host was a little late night
Speaker 1: just said to him, well, did they give you any
Speaker 1: advice after you know this, after everybody knows they're gonna
Speaker 1: be the new Batman or whatever. Affleck kind of just
Speaker 1: shook his head and he looked down and he said, well,
Speaker 1: they just told me to stay off the internet for
Speaker 1: a few days. Ever good. You know, honestly, is there
Speaker 1: one person out there that, like everybody would just oh,
Speaker 1: this is a perfect choice for Batman. There's not one
Speaker 1: person because no matter who they cast for Batman, people
Speaker 1: are gonna have an issue with.
Speaker 2: Not yet, not only will they have an issue like
Speaker 2: it is not only is it no one perfect, but
Speaker 2: every Batman casting has always been an issue. And outside
Speaker 2: of George and Val Kilmer, there's newspaper articles you can
Speaker 2: find them from the eighties and it's like, really, the
Speaker 2: guy that played mister Mom is going to be Batman? Yeah,
Speaker 2: and like yeah, not only he's gonna be Batman, he's
Speaker 2: gonna be fucking kill it. Yeah, we're kidding here, and
Speaker 2: just down the list all the way to oh are
Speaker 2: you kidding me? The guy that was in Twilight is
Speaker 2: going to be Batman. Yeah, that's really what we're gonna do, right,
Speaker 2: man a Fleck, Yeah, is going to be bad.
Speaker 1: Now. I don't think a whole lot of people ripped
Speaker 1: the Christian Bale one.
Speaker 2: I think people were just starved for a new Batman
Speaker 2: at that point because the last one. I don't think
Speaker 2: anyone had any expectations. He kind of revitalized what I
Speaker 2: think people were expecting.
Speaker 1: And you know, the other thing too, is like I
Speaker 1: don't I mean, yeah, he was Batman in that movie,
Speaker 1: but so much of that movie he wasn't really Batman.
Speaker 1: He was he was mostly Bruce Wayne, which is I
Speaker 1: think is a little bit different way to do it.
Speaker 2: And hot take. I think he's the worst actual Batman right.
Speaker 2: That Batman voice was stupid. It's very iconic. Yeah, like
Speaker 2: we all mock it, and like I still randomly will
Speaker 2: just anytime someone says, what's the difference, I always will
Speaker 2: just immediately we're hockey pat. Yeah, that was like immediately,
Speaker 2: like that's just where I go to. But like it's
Speaker 2: it's dumb. And I think Ben Affleck, who takes the
Speaker 2: most crap for being Batman, was actually a very good one.
Speaker 2: I think it gave us some of the best action sequences,
Speaker 2: and I think he was a tremendous Bruce Wayne and
Speaker 2: I would like to give Ben Affleck his his his
Speaker 2: roses here. Yeah, because they canceled that far too soon,
Speaker 2: and I feel back because I think he took it seriously.
Speaker 2: And as an almost forty year old man, I'm at
Speaker 2: the point where I want my grown ass people playing
Speaker 2: comic book Cara heroes to make me think they care
Speaker 2: about the character. Yeah, and I think after like that,
Speaker 2: Henry Cavill does that in space, like he genuinely is like, no,
Speaker 2: I'm super into this.
Speaker 1: Okay, but but didn't you I mean, wasn't the case.
Speaker 1: I mean it's not like they canceled it. I mean
Speaker 1: there was already cracks in the Like Ray Fisher had
Speaker 1: a big issue with I came out, was it Snyder
Speaker 1: or whoever it was. He had a big issue with
Speaker 1: DC and so, and that was well before they had
Speaker 1: canceled it, Like there was something, there was something going
Speaker 1: on with the production company and him. I feel like
Speaker 1: Henry Cavell had an issue too.
Speaker 2: All Right, We're going down this rabbit hole and I'm
Speaker 2: glad we're here.
Speaker 1: So so I feel like the cracks were already, like
Speaker 1: if they were to continue this, I don't even know
Speaker 1: if those two actors were to come back. And oh
Speaker 1: and then Ezra Yeah yeah, Ezra Miller was an issue.
Speaker 1: Oh my god, you know, and they couldn't they couldn't
Speaker 1: bring him back.
Speaker 2: Yeah, although they made that flash movie after the fact,
Speaker 2: like they already knew that everything, like, no, let's uh,
Speaker 2: let's keep this.
Speaker 1: It wasn't it already a lot of it already filmed
Speaker 1: at that point. I don't know. I thought it was.
Speaker 2: I feel like Covid aft with that quite a bit.
Speaker 1: But but then the Lobo thing never came out until
Speaker 1: after it had Yeah, okay, so they still had Mama.
Speaker 1: I will totally what it's still done. Oh my god,
Speaker 1: where was she going?
Speaker 2: Yeah, I will say I think the entire DCU was
Speaker 2: just snake bitten. I think it's ridiculous that they canceled it.
Speaker 2: I am not anti. There's a lot of people online
Speaker 2: that are very pro you can either be James Gunn
Speaker 2: or Zack Snyder, Like no, you can absolutely like both
Speaker 2: of their visions, And that is where I file myself into.
Speaker 2: I thought what Zack Snyder was doing. I'll be honest,
Speaker 2: and some of you listening might scoff at this. I
Speaker 2: think he was creating superhero movies for smart people in
Speaker 2: a country that doesn't have a lot of them. Snyder, Yes, okay,
Speaker 2: I think Batman v. Superman is a horribly underrated film. Yeah,
Speaker 2: it has some very random moments in it that don't
Speaker 2: make a lot of sense. I didn't know that there's moments,
Speaker 2: but like, realistically, dude, like watch that and then watch
Speaker 2: Civil War, which came out the same year, and it
Speaker 2: is the same movie. Like, it really is the same movie,
Speaker 2: only instead of realizing that your parents have the same name,
Speaker 2: you realize you're freaking your other best friend killed. And
Speaker 2: it's the same inflection point. There's a scene where they
Speaker 2: blow up the halls of Congress like someone ran it
Speaker 2: side by side, and like, you guys aren't going to
Speaker 2: want to hear this, but it's basically the exact same movie,
Speaker 2: but the way.
Speaker 1: That Civil War was more star.
Speaker 2: Studded, exactly, and Zack Snyder presented it in a way
Speaker 2: that expected the audience to be smarter. Like, me, as
Speaker 2: a massive Batman fan, is like, why is Batman branding
Speaker 2: freaking villains that he's putting in jail, or like when
Speaker 2: the Flash kind of appears as as a time warp
Speaker 2: through a portal and he's like, you gotta stop.
Speaker 1: Did they ever pay that off?
Speaker 2: No, because we killed the freaking youth.
Speaker 1: So do we know what it was supposed to be.
Speaker 2: I'm pretty sure in a future Justice League movie they
Speaker 2: were gonna do some time travel stuff and then he
Speaker 2: was going to appear in that movie and all these
Speaker 2: plebeians would be like, Oh, I get it now.
Speaker 1: But a lot of he's referring to though, where he's like,
Speaker 1: she's the key was that.
Speaker 2: Lois laying and Superman was obviously off the rails again
Speaker 2: and they were gonna kind of do all this. He
Speaker 2: had the James Todd Joker storyline in there, with the
Speaker 2: hahaha jokes on you, like all of these things, And
Speaker 2: if you're looking at there, you don't know who Jason
Speaker 2: Todd is. You don't know that the Flash can time travel.
Speaker 2: You don't know any of these things, Like what are
Speaker 2: all these random scenes in a movie with Batman and
Speaker 2: Superman and one of these and like, I think it
Speaker 2: it squashed under its own weight, and I'm I'm very upset.
Speaker 2: We'll never know what Zack Snyder's.
Speaker 1: Over was leto the Joker in that. Yeah, okay, so
Speaker 1: what was the scene where they're running and hiding from Superman?
Speaker 1: It was like the dystopian.
Speaker 2: Yeah, well in the in the extra long in the Snyder.
Speaker 1: Cut Snyder of the Justice League.
Speaker 2: Oh yes, and they were gonna put that in there,
Speaker 2: and they probably would have confused audiences more.
Speaker 1: Yeah, that was a cool scene.
Speaker 2: Like, that was such a cool scene. Batman's dropping f bombs.
Speaker 2: Like there's a lot to like in that there, And like,
Speaker 2: I I think we Americans just absolutely squashed the DCU.
Speaker 2: I think James Gunn will do fine. I think it
Speaker 2: could be even better than what Zack Snyder had out there.
Speaker 2: But it'll be brighter that I can tell you. Yeah,
Speaker 2: it'll be cheekier.
Speaker 1: Yeah, we already see like this, this Superman cracks wise
Speaker 1: much more so than Henry Cable. Oh.
Speaker 2: There were times where I felt like I was just
Speaker 2: watching Guardians of the Galaxy. Really not even the worst
Speaker 2: thing to feel.
Speaker 1: You know. You know what I like too about gun
Speaker 1: is he's he's kind of he's not a master, but
Speaker 1: he's so good at bringing these like not minority characters
Speaker 1: that's not what I want to be. Lesser, no, lesser known. Yeah,
Speaker 1: and like I mean, who's who's the one guy in Superman.
Speaker 2: Mister terrific, Mister terrific?
Speaker 1: Never heard of him, you know, and he's and he's
Speaker 1: like this hugely powerful guy, which is great. Liner. We
Speaker 1: were talking about this the other day when when Guardians
Speaker 1: of the Galaxy was going to be coming out and
Speaker 1: and everybody's like, this is going to fail. You clearly
Speaker 1: have jumped the shark, Marvel. You have bitten off more
Speaker 1: than you can chew a tree, a woman talking raccoon,
Speaker 1: give me a break, and they made three of them.
Speaker 2: Yeah, it's crazy, he does. I'm absolutely here for it.
Speaker 2: But I mean, we that was a bit of a
Speaker 2: DC tangent here. I'm just starving. I actually read so well,
Speaker 2: we will you know what. I'll bring that up at
Speaker 2: the end of the conversation because it ties into the
Speaker 2: next movie that we're going to see. But I am
Speaker 2: starved for superhero content, and that's why I was excited
Speaker 2: to break this down for you. And what's funny is
Speaker 2: we are two minutes away from eclipsing the runtime of
Speaker 2: the actual show itself. You made that joke left.
Speaker 1: Oh yeah, that this could be the podcast could be
Speaker 1: longer than the actual art.
Speaker 2: Yes, because I mean, I'll be real with you, man,
Speaker 2: what else have we not said about what happened? There's
Speaker 2: twenty minutes offc twenty minutes of raw violence.
Speaker 1: I mean to encapsulate it. This is just like I
Speaker 1: said earlier, this is just simply another child. It's a
Speaker 1: longer chapter. But in the Punisher story, it hit. It
Speaker 1: plays all the hits. It plays all the hits, and
Speaker 1: you don't need to see it. I'm assuming you know, yeah,
Speaker 1: brand new day. I'm clearly I don't think anything happened
Speaker 1: in here that is going to catch Daredevil or Jessica
Speaker 1: Jones or any of those people off guard. And oh
Speaker 1: you mean Frank Castle went nuts and he killed sixty people. Yeah,
Speaker 1: I had no idea that he was capable of. You know,
Speaker 1: So he'll seamlessly drop back into Daredevil season three. If
Speaker 1: do we know he is he going to be in that.
Speaker 2: I'm assuming so, but we don't know that. I'm hopeful
Speaker 2: he's not a casualty of this big reset at the
Speaker 2: end of twenty seven, Like I could use four more
Speaker 2: seasons of John Burnenthal as the Punisher. Yeah, like a
Speaker 2: lot of these guys. Like I was thinking about it
Speaker 2: when I watched the finale of Daredevil, And as much
Speaker 2: as I love the series and I think Donofrio is
Speaker 2: a wonderful Kingpin, I'm like, I feel like we've gone
Speaker 2: as far as we can go here. I mean, I
Speaker 2: know he's going to be in the in the next
Speaker 2: season here, but I feel like that's going to be
Speaker 2: the end of it for him, and I think that's good.
Speaker 2: I'm like, I've got my fill of this. I don't
Speaker 2: need to see a bunch more of this Burnhal. I
Speaker 2: feel like we're gonna lose way too soon if we
Speaker 2: don't get a couple more seasons of that show out
Speaker 2: of him.
Speaker 1: I don't know what they're going to do in season three.
Speaker 1: I think it's pretty clear Fisk is going to be
Speaker 1: the antagonisty.
Speaker 2: Yeah, absolutely and absolutely.
Speaker 1: We have seen him in Echo. Well, you know, did
Speaker 1: you watch Act I didn't watch e Go No, sorry, Yeah,
Speaker 1: we have seen him rise up in Echo. We have
Speaker 1: seen him rise up even further and see Wanta born
Speaker 1: again to where he's at the pinnacle in season two.
Speaker 1: Now he's falling. We have to you know, a guy
Speaker 1: a super he is a super villain, like a guy
Speaker 1: like that. You have to see him get back up
Speaker 1: and then rise to power again.
Speaker 2: Ah but you see, I feel like if he comes back,
Speaker 2: it'll be like, uh, what's a what's a what's a
Speaker 2: good example of this? It'll be like in the Transformers movies,
Speaker 2: or like in the first one, they were like freaking, what's.
Speaker 1: The main bad one? Megatron?
Speaker 2: Like pretty threatening, huhh, and then they kill him, so
Speaker 2: like they're not gonna make you fight Megatron again. It's
Speaker 2: like we're gonna bring Megatron back, but also Megatron's actually
Speaker 2: scared of the fallen Yeah, and like that is who
Speaker 2: they're actually going to have to do. You think there's
Speaker 2: gonna be a bigger but I think he will like
Speaker 2: try and merge with someone else, but that's something else
Speaker 2: will turn out to be too powerful, even for Kingpin,
Speaker 2: and then that will ultimately end up or he merges
Speaker 2: like he he comes together with somebody and just uses
Speaker 2: him to get back. But even we saw that. So
Speaker 2: I just recently rewatched all Daredevil because yeah, and like
Speaker 2: we saw that with the the emergence of Bulls Eye,
Speaker 2: Like I don't know how much you remember season three
Speaker 2: of dar Devil, But that's basically he plays his little gamesmanship.
Speaker 2: He emotionally manipulates Bullseye, he puts himself in the place
Speaker 2: of his therapist, helps him get to where he needs
Speaker 2: to go, and then ultimately discards him. But like you
Speaker 2: really don't realize between Daredevil and Daredevil Born Again, the
Speaker 2: two of them have physically fought King Ben and Daredevil
Speaker 2: like no less than five times, and like it's getting
Speaker 2: to the point now where it's like you can't beat
Speaker 2: him physically, you can't beat their devil, So like, what's
Speaker 2: what's your endgame? It seems to me like the next
Speaker 2: logical step is bite off more than you can chew
Speaker 2: and be like, what's some kind of almost metaphysical bad
Speaker 2: guy like the hand almost like let's find immortal stuff,
Speaker 2: Let's find something beyond just normal person, because I can't
Speaker 2: beat these guys and that might ultimately be his downfall.
Speaker 2: But I really feel like we're hitting a point where
Speaker 2: it's getting redundant with that week.
Speaker 1: Have we heard any casting info about Matt Murdoch being
Speaker 1: in Brand New Day? No? Okay, But as I've stated
Speaker 1: in that scene in the trailer, yeah, I know. So
Speaker 1: if he does appear there, right, maybe season three of
Speaker 1: Born Again takes off from where Brand New Day ended,
Speaker 1: and I don't know, I don't know where you go, like,
Speaker 1: you know, because he's in prison. Yeah, so obviously he'd
Speaker 1: have to get out of prison to be in Brand
Speaker 1: New Day, right, No, dude.
Speaker 2: I would watch eight seasons of there. There's actually a
Speaker 2: Green Green Arrow storyline that's exactly that he gets put
Speaker 2: in prison, and it was an entire, entire comic arc
Speaker 2: because all the people he put in prison are in prison,
Speaker 2: and now he's also in prison, and they're like, Oh,
Speaker 2: I've got a bone to pick with you, Like if
Speaker 2: you told me the first four of eight episodes are
Speaker 2: Daredevil in jail, like keeping the Anti Vigilanti task Force
Speaker 2: and dealing with other villains that he messed with. Maybe
Speaker 2: off camera, I'd absolutely be I would absolutely be here
Speaker 2: for that story.
Speaker 1: Yeah, I would check it out. But my point is
Speaker 1: Brand New Day comes out, Yeah, and he's in prison
Speaker 1: right now, So I Spider Man clearly doesn't have the
Speaker 1: power to break him out, or does he. No, he doesn't.
Speaker 2: You know what, then maybe he won't be you know,
Speaker 2: you might have just logiced your way into me thinking
Speaker 2: he's not going to be in Brand New Day.
Speaker 1: But the other aspect of that, you could still be
Speaker 1: right about that trailer where I mean Hult could be there,
Speaker 1: or you know, whoever could be there.
Speaker 2: Oh yeah, someone's there, Frank Castle, Someone's there, whoever may
Speaker 2: be Hopefully there's other cameos that we don't know about.
Speaker 1: But Spider Spider Pig John Malaney from Its Yeah Spider.
Speaker 2: We'll have to check too, because like, obviously that movie
Speaker 2: will supersede anything else coming that week. But I have
Speaker 2: the worst kind of feeling that that and The New
Speaker 2: Evil Dead are coming out the same weekend, and oh
Speaker 2: is that going to piss me off?
Speaker 1: That's going to piss me off? The the setup for
Speaker 1: this Brand New Day, I thought the Punisher would one
Speaker 1: last kill, would set the table for it, and it
Speaker 1: just seems we got a very serious, tormented dark Punisher,
Speaker 1: whereas the stuff we've seen in the trailer for Brand
Speaker 1: New Day, Yeah, is he's annoyed with this kid and
Speaker 1: very talkative and you know what I mean, Yeah, it's
Speaker 1: it seems like two different Punishers.
Speaker 2: Yeah, I'm here for it.
Speaker 1: Though.
Speaker 2: I love those conflicts of style when they would kind
Speaker 2: of marry them together, So I'm I'm excited to see
Speaker 2: where it kind of goes from there because they've already
Speaker 2: kind of played with this relationship with Daredevil that Dar
Speaker 2: Devil's like the catholic that would never murder punishers, the
Speaker 2: guy that's like, actually I'll murder right now. Try me, Yeah,
Speaker 2: and like will he bring him over. I don't think
Speaker 2: they're gonna visit that with Spider Man. I don't think
Speaker 2: it's going to be a question of is Spider Man
Speaker 2: gonna become the punisher, Whereas they can kind of play
Speaker 2: with that with Dar Devil. I think they're gonna kind
Speaker 2: of Wolverine and Dead pull its and just like kind
Speaker 2: of put two very stark delivery styles and it will
Speaker 2: be enjoyable.
Speaker 1: The other not that this is a pushback, but you know,
Speaker 1: we have to consider this sort of metamorphosis that he's
Speaker 1: undergoing in this and maybe it'll be a mental one
Speaker 1: as well as a physical.
Speaker 2: Right and the Spider the Man Spider version of him
Speaker 2: might want to kill people more than the Spider Man
Speaker 2: version of him, which I'm sure will be part of it. Yeah,
Speaker 2: we're predicting these themes that are absolutely going to be
Speaker 2: the three threads like this is nice, this feels good.
Speaker 1: This is it's going to be fun when that comes out,
Speaker 1: and we got to wait till July. Yeah. Yeah, so
Speaker 1: we're still like two months away. That's probably less than
Speaker 1: two months now, right.
Speaker 2: Yeah, yeah, roughly almost exactly two months. I feel like
Speaker 2: it's like July twelfth, and we're currently at May thirteenth,
Speaker 2: so I feel like we're exactly two months away. And
Speaker 2: that brings me to let's review, because I do one.
Speaker 2: I'm at a seven, yeah, six and a half. Yeah,
Speaker 2: so I definitely enjoyed it. Yeah, it was fine.
Speaker 1: I immediately after I was like, well, this is a three,
Speaker 1: and then I started thinking about it more. Yeah, and like, okay,
Speaker 1: why would I give it a three? And I'm like,
Speaker 1: you know, I can't because what it was.
Speaker 2: I definitely didn't hate watching I was just pissed there
Speaker 2: wasn't more of it, which is typically a good sign
Speaker 2: for things, but and I think part of the problem
Speaker 2: is bulky. This kind of ties into it. This is
Speaker 2: the longest stretch since the MCU was created without an
Speaker 2: MCU movie.
Speaker 1: Really is what we're dealing with right now.
Speaker 2: Last Fantastic four till July.
Speaker 1: Maybe Holy cows almost a full year.
Speaker 2: Right, think about it, we've been doing we we reviewed
Speaker 2: Fantastic Four for this trailer, and we haven't done a
Speaker 2: comic book anything. This is the most recent comic book
Speaker 2: thing we've done since then.
Speaker 1: So so, but I would say the difference is you're
Speaker 1: having all these television shows.
Speaker 2: Yeah, sure, and that helps me a little. But I
Speaker 2: I the reason I bring that up is because do
Speaker 2: you know what's duking it out for number one in
Speaker 2: the box office? In an erics I saw a friend
Speaker 2: of mine post be like you know, in the longest
Speaker 2: stretch without MC without comic book movies, because realistically DC
Speaker 2: is not really pumped like I think the last thing
Speaker 2: we've seen is Superman, right, so Fantastic Force actually closer
Speaker 2: than Superman was. So we are in complete withdrawal from
Speaker 2: how it has been with between three and five movies
Speaker 2: across both studios being produced every single year. They were
Speaker 2: like without without comic book movies, duking it out. It's
Speaker 2: really interesting to see what makes it to the top
Speaker 2: of the list here. As we are currently recording this,
Speaker 2: the two movies that are fighting it out is next
Speaker 2: week's version of Off Topics, The Mortal Kombat sequel is
Speaker 2: duking it out with obviously high up on both of
Speaker 2: our lists as well. The Devilwar's Product two going back
Speaker 2: and forth here, which are just two such distinct I
Speaker 2: kind of love that that they should have had two.
Speaker 1: Movies at the time. They should have called it the
Speaker 1: Devilwaar's Product too, colon Mortal Kombat.
Speaker 2: Yeah, right, exactly. It's like what was the Barbenheimer? Like
Speaker 2: Barbheimer one of those kind of things going on right
Speaker 2: now with these two movies. I actually got a text
Speaker 2: from a friend of mine who hates big budget action
Speaker 2: and always talks shit on superhero movies to me. He's like,
Speaker 2: I get you love them, It's just not for me.
Speaker 2: He's like, I've watched plenty of them. I hate how
Speaker 2: into it everybody is, he texted me, and I want
Speaker 2: to pull this out because I really want to paint
Speaker 2: a picture.
Speaker 1: He even asked me.
Speaker 2: He was like, did you use to play the Mortal
Speaker 2: Kombat and what did you think of the first one?
Speaker 2: Is what he texted me because he was going to
Speaker 2: see with his wife. I said, Smash Brothers is the
Speaker 2: only fighting game I ever played consistently, and I thought
Speaker 2: the first one was fine, it was on par with
Speaker 2: the nineteen ninety seven Mortal Kombat movie in my opinion.
Speaker 1: To which he was did they only make one back?
Speaker 2: Then they made a second Annihilation? But that's so yeah,
Speaker 2: that's right, that's lation that's available on HBO.
Speaker 1: Check it out.
Speaker 2: But then he went on say, yeah, I never really
Speaker 2: played the games. I'd say that I just watched the
Speaker 2: best video game movie I've ever experienced, okay, coming out
Speaker 2: of Mortal Kombat two.
Speaker 1: And this is the fourth Mortal Kombat movie, right.
Speaker 2: Yes, okay, there's some off brand stuff. There was a
Speaker 2: TV show featuring sub Zero which I never saw, but
Speaker 2: it was very, very very low budget. Okay, so it
Speaker 2: wasn't something that I was interesting.
Speaker 1: So how long was it between Annihilation and then the
Speaker 1: first you know, Mortal Kombats? Oh? God, twenty five years? Okay,
Speaker 1: so it was twenty five years later they came out
Speaker 1: with this. When did the first mort like the third
Speaker 1: movie come out? How long have we been waiting for this? Equal?
Speaker 2: And now I'm lost? What third movie?
Speaker 1: Okay? Oh that I have no idea. So the third
Speaker 1: movie which was which was Mortal Kombat? No, no, no, no, no, okay, no,
Speaker 1: we're not talking last you. Okay, there is Mortal Kombat
Speaker 1: that came out in the nineties.
Speaker 2: Yeah, ok The second one came out like a year later.
Speaker 1: Annihilation came out a year later. From Annihilation to the
Speaker 1: next Mortal Kombat movie, which was just called Mortal Kombat.
Speaker 2: Yeah right, yeah, how long was That's what I was saying,
Speaker 2: was close to twenty twenty five years?
Speaker 1: Yeah, okay, so then that movie comes out. Now we
Speaker 1: have Mortal Kombat too. See his last two movies. What
Speaker 1: was the gap between them? I think five years? Five years?
Speaker 2: Oh yeah, I think it came out in twenty one
Speaker 2: during the law and I thought.
Speaker 1: I thought that the third one got this to be
Speaker 1: so confusing. We'll talk about this next week. The third
Speaker 1: one was awesome. Yeah, I enjoy Oh god, it's so rewatchable.
Speaker 2: It's I've watched it plenty of times. I thought, I
Speaker 2: wish and this is like a common critique of mine,
Speaker 2: I wish it got a little darker at times, like
Speaker 2: when sub Zero you think kills Jackson the first one
Speaker 2: and like almost like dismissively pushes him off the building
Speaker 2: and you watch him fallow in his face like four
Speaker 2: more times on his way off the thing. I was like, Oh,
Speaker 2: this movie is gonna be great, and then other times
Speaker 2: it got a little hokey, and I was like, ah,
Speaker 2: I wish you could really capture that that one moment
Speaker 2: over and over again, like I wanted to feel like,
Speaker 2: not only am I killing you, but I'm being disrespectful
Speaker 2: when I'm doing that kind of stuff, which.
Speaker 1: Was kind of like the game, you know, Like I
Speaker 1: mean I didn't play the game a whole lot when
Speaker 1: I was growing up, but it was kind of like
Speaker 1: that where it was like finish him, you know where,
Speaker 1: like and we saw that in the movies too, where
Speaker 1: it was and you remember, I mean this is I mean,
Speaker 1: how old were you in ninety seven ten? So there
Speaker 1: is a big thing going around before this movie came
Speaker 1: out when the game was.
Speaker 2: Oh trust me, I remember, like because I was the
Speaker 2: house people went to to play it, right, because.
Speaker 1: Your mom let you do whatever you want. As long
Speaker 1: as he didn't have nightmares, you were fine. Yeah. But yeah,
Speaker 1: like that was a huge especially me in a in
Speaker 1: a Christian grade school, like oh my god, you couldn't
Speaker 1: even say Mortal Kombat. It felt like raising like oh
Speaker 1: my god.
Speaker 2: And it's so funny because you go back and look
Speaker 2: at those Sega Genesis era graphics and like, what would happen?
Speaker 2: And then you watch Mortal Kombat eleven, which is the
Speaker 2: most contemporary version, and you watch what the fatalities are now,
Speaker 2: and then you go back to what was in the
Speaker 2: news in ninety one and you're just like, man, like,
Speaker 2: people really were just starved for anything. Right now, I'll
Speaker 2: tell you right now.
Speaker 1: You know what's funny is what once nine to eleven hit? Yeah,
Speaker 1: everything changed. Not that I'm I want to make light
Speaker 1: of this, Okay, I'm not making light of it, but
Speaker 1: I will say this. You know when.
Speaker 2: Something Batman grittier again was after.
Speaker 1: Night I don't want to make I don't I don't
Speaker 1: want to make that point, but but I will say this, like,
Speaker 1: sometimes people just need something to talk about. And sometimes
Speaker 1: you know this from politics or whatever, the straw Man
Speaker 1: argument and everything, and and sometimes I think like, like, okay,
Speaker 1: I need to do something. I need we need to
Speaker 1: talk about something. I'm a politician, I'm a talk show producer,
Speaker 1: I'm in the media. We need to find something to
Speaker 1: create panic and fear, right right, And then nine to
Speaker 1: eleven hit, and it's like, Okay, are we really going
Speaker 1: to talk about how dangerous video games are now right,
Speaker 1: Like it's exactly, oh you're.
Speaker 2: Not lyrics in music video and other graphics. There was
Speaker 2: a lot of stuff to make it look like you
Speaker 2: were doing something to me. I think there was a
Speaker 2: kid in an arcade that got his ass whopped six
Speaker 2: times in a row. At Mortal Kombat went and told
Speaker 2: Autumn and like some strict mother was like what were
Speaker 2: you played? And it was like, oh my god, I
Speaker 2: need to call all the news companies and tell them
Speaker 2: that this is a thing. And then it becomes a
Speaker 2: national story and here we are. But Mortal Kombat was
Speaker 2: born from it, and uh, I will tell you, And
Speaker 2: you're gonna think I'm being facetious when I say this.
Speaker 2: The Mortal Kombat lore is more complex than Game of Thrones, Like, wow,
Speaker 2: really you you watch the game and it's just like
Speaker 2: a yellow dude and a blue dude punching the crap
Speaker 2: out of each other, and then like there will be
Speaker 2: the in between fight storyline that oftentimes are just big
Speaker 2: text paragraphs and there's like alternate dimensions and this this
Speaker 2: ten tournament battle and we're in the middle. Like so
Speaker 2: they touch on some of that in some of the movies,
Speaker 2: and like, I hope they really just like lean into
Speaker 2: it and they get super complex and they're just like, yeah,
Speaker 2: and then all this is going to happen. And of
Speaker 2: course what's his name, what's Johnny Cage's name, Carl Urban.
Speaker 1: I love that.
Speaker 2: I love him and anything he's in. So I'm excited
Speaker 2: to see you. You made the comment he's in his fifties.
Speaker 2: He's being Johnny Cage. That's an interesting, well decision. You know,
Speaker 2: we'll see what happened.
Speaker 1: I just I just I think, like you know, I'm
Speaker 1: almost fifty now, and I remember when that used to
Speaker 1: be old to me. Yeah, and now I'm just I
Speaker 1: see people in their fifties. And I mean Idris elba
Speaker 1: is in the he Man movie coming out. Yeah, I mean,
Speaker 1: how old is that guy? O.
Speaker 2: He's definitely up there.
Speaker 1: Denzel Washington is not that far removed from doing Equalizer,
Speaker 1: and I think he's in his seventies.
Speaker 2: Oh absolutely. But like Johnny Cage is always such like
Speaker 2: a smart ass, like you know, he's specially want to
Speaker 2: be like a little young, little too confident, Like I'm
Speaker 2: I'm pushing forty and I'm kind of hitting the point
Speaker 2: where I'm like, all right, dude, you're not that.
Speaker 1: Maybe maybe they'll play into that in the movie too,
Speaker 1: like like he's sort of like this washed up actor,
Speaker 1: but he's still liking kick ass. I don't know.
Speaker 2: You know what's funny is is at the end of
Speaker 2: the first the third one, first one, what however you
Speaker 2: want to call it Mortal Kombat twenty twenty one. Yeah,
Speaker 2: that's so let's refer to that Johnny Cage is like
Speaker 2: a young Asian dude because the cast is primarily Asian,
Speaker 2: and they're just gonna ignore that.
Speaker 1: Well, no, because in the very end of twenty twenty one, yeah,
Speaker 1: he whatever his name was the main guy who got
Speaker 1: the you know, the suit and the armor doesn't narrow,
Speaker 1: it don't at all. I know, you know the UFC fighter. Yeah,
Speaker 1: he's going he's like, oh, I got a recruit and then.
Speaker 2: It shows Johnny Cage but it's a it's a poster.
Speaker 1: I didn't know that. Yeah, oh, at least I forgot
Speaker 1: about it.
Speaker 2: Yeah, and so they're just gonna be like, no, no, mine.
Speaker 1: They literally whitewashed it.
Speaker 2: We need we need a more bank. Well, realistically, Johnny
Speaker 2: Cage is a white guy. So like this is what
Speaker 2: it should be.
Speaker 1: Yees, but but they already painted it, as.
Speaker 2: You know, and I think they're gonna make him the lead.
Speaker 2: We'll see what happens. We're already doing next week's thing.
Speaker 2: But like he shouldn't be the main character. And I
Speaker 2: have a feeling they're gonna make him because Carl. You
Speaker 2: don't bring Carl Urban in to make him be.
Speaker 1: In the poster. Now, the poster features all the characters
Speaker 1: and it's Carl Urban's head like bigger than any I'm
Speaker 1: sure he doesn't.
Speaker 2: Make any sense. It doesn't make anything.
Speaker 1: The guy who is the main character in the last
Speaker 1: one is like so small compared to like in the
Speaker 1: poster or whatever.
Speaker 2: Although I will say, uh, twenty years ago, if adult
Speaker 2: Ben would have been told, yeah, we're gonna make a
Speaker 2: live action X Men and it's gonna predominantly feature Wolverine,
Speaker 2: I'd be like, what you're gonna You're gonna take the
Speaker 2: meat head side character and you're gonna prominently feature him
Speaker 2: in an X Men movie, And like now, I can't
Speaker 2: imagine Wolverine not being like the most prominently featured guy.
Speaker 2: So who knows, maybe this hits, but like we'll see
Speaker 2: what happens. That's next week. This week's punish your last kill.
Speaker 2: We'll talk to you guys then