WEBVTT 1 00:00:00.360 --> 00:00:02.200 As success spoiled the Dead. Yeah. 2 00:00:07.400 --> 00:00:09.919 Well, I was noticing the other night, for instance, that 3 00:00:10.599 --> 00:00:14.000 when I'm going through pistachios opening pistachios. 4 00:00:13.279 --> 00:00:14.880 That the hard to open ones. 5 00:00:15.160 --> 00:00:23.120 I don't bother with them anymore. Who's got time? 6 00:00:24.239 --> 00:00:29.320 Good point. We're totally bumming rock and roll. I mean, 7 00:00:29.320 --> 00:00:29.920 I'll leave you. 8 00:00:29.920 --> 00:00:33.960 You're reading Little Hands this, It's time to rock and roll. 9 00:00:34.719 --> 00:00:42.840 I totally booked. Welcome back to book Don Rock conversations 10 00:00:42.920 --> 00:00:46.960 with authors, musicians, and insiders revealing the stories behind classic 11 00:00:47.000 --> 00:00:51.240 rock's greatest songs, albums and artists. And before we get started, 12 00:00:51.840 --> 00:00:55.920 if you're watching this episode, you're seeing this lovely grateful 13 00:00:55.960 --> 00:00:58.159 Dead shirt that I'm wearing here, and I picked it 14 00:00:58.200 --> 00:01:00.880 up at old Glory dot com. If you want to 15 00:01:00.880 --> 00:01:04.120 get some great classic rock merch there for fifteen percent off. 16 00:01:04.400 --> 00:01:06.840 Find something you like and use the promo code Booked 17 00:01:06.879 --> 00:01:09.799 on Rock and you'll get fifteen percent off. Just click 18 00:01:09.840 --> 00:01:12.280 the link in the show notes or visit booked on 19 00:01:12.359 --> 00:01:15.000 Rock dot com and head to my deals. We are 20 00:01:15.040 --> 00:01:17.560 going to talk about a song. Now, this shirt is 21 00:01:17.599 --> 00:01:20.040 about Ship of Fools, but we're going to talk about 22 00:01:20.079 --> 00:01:22.280 a different song. We're going to talk about touch of Gray. 23 00:01:22.840 --> 00:01:25.640 Our guest is John Brackett. He's the author of Touch 24 00:01:25.640 --> 00:01:29.040 of Gray or How the Grateful Dead Became Pop Stars. 25 00:01:29.159 --> 00:01:30.760 Welcome to the podcast, John. 26 00:01:30.760 --> 00:01:32.920 Thank you so very much. It's great to be here. Eric. 27 00:01:33.719 --> 00:01:36.280 This is a question I love asking Dead fans because 28 00:01:36.280 --> 00:01:39.280 the answer often depends on when they became a fan. 29 00:01:39.319 --> 00:01:41.480 Do you remember the first time you heard Touch of 30 00:01:41.519 --> 00:01:43.840 Gray and what was your initial response to it. 31 00:01:45.200 --> 00:01:48.040 I don't think I remember the very first time, although 32 00:01:48.400 --> 00:01:52.920 I'm very aware of when the video took over and 33 00:01:53.000 --> 00:01:55.200 when I would see that on MTV and all of 34 00:01:55.239 --> 00:02:00.680 the related video programs at the time. At the time, 35 00:02:00.760 --> 00:02:03.680 I thought it was just another old rock band trying 36 00:02:03.760 --> 00:02:06.680 to make a quick buck by coming back. You know, 37 00:02:06.760 --> 00:02:08.919 I was kind of part of this jaded Gen X 38 00:02:08.960 --> 00:02:12.680 generation that was listening to kind of alternative rock and 39 00:02:12.800 --> 00:02:16.919 things of that nature, and familiar with the Dead, you know. 40 00:02:17.000 --> 00:02:20.879 I'd heard the tunes on classic rock radio, but you know, 41 00:02:21.000 --> 00:02:23.199 throughout much of the eighties you didn't really hear about 42 00:02:23.199 --> 00:02:25.479 them if you weren't you know, a dead head, if 43 00:02:25.479 --> 00:02:28.159 you didn't really follow them, and so it seemed like, oh, 44 00:02:28.360 --> 00:02:31.000 here comes another band, you know that's trying to kind 45 00:02:31.039 --> 00:02:35.439 of cash in at the time, so wasn't really ahead, 46 00:02:35.919 --> 00:02:40.199 you know, until much later. So going back and looking 47 00:02:40.240 --> 00:02:44.520 at this time and kind of reevaluating, you know, kind 48 00:02:44.560 --> 00:02:46.800 of how this song kind of gets interpreted. You know, 49 00:02:46.840 --> 00:02:49.280 I think it kind of really informed, you know, the 50 00:02:49.319 --> 00:02:51.120 book and kind of why I wrote the book. 51 00:02:51.639 --> 00:02:55.080 And it is interesting when you ask each dead fan 52 00:02:55.240 --> 00:02:57.800 when they first heard the song and how long they 53 00:02:57.800 --> 00:03:00.840 were a fan, because that will change used the response. 54 00:03:00.879 --> 00:03:03.280 I mean, it's a divisive song for somebody like me. 55 00:03:03.879 --> 00:03:07.439 It's the first song that I really took to as 56 00:03:07.439 --> 00:03:10.960 a kid. It was fifteen, and then years later I 57 00:03:11.000 --> 00:03:13.639 got into the rest of the catalog, but I got 58 00:03:13.639 --> 00:03:15.719 to admit it's it's a great song. It just it 59 00:03:15.759 --> 00:03:17.360 pulled me in, like so many. 60 00:03:17.599 --> 00:03:19.919 Yeah, I mean, and you were one of you know, 61 00:03:20.000 --> 00:03:22.759 tens of thousands of people who got on the bus, 62 00:03:22.960 --> 00:03:26.520 you know, at that time. And you know, I think 63 00:03:26.599 --> 00:03:28.240 one of the points in the book is like, yes, 64 00:03:28.319 --> 00:03:32.159 it's about this time, and it's about that moment in 65 00:03:32.199 --> 00:03:35.919 the summer of eighty seven, but it's much much larger 66 00:03:35.960 --> 00:03:38.960 than that. I mean, this song really kind of transformed 67 00:03:39.319 --> 00:03:43.000 the prevailing historical trajectory of the band, and in some 68 00:03:43.039 --> 00:03:45.560 ways helped to kind of lay the foundation for you know, 69 00:03:45.960 --> 00:03:48.319 kind of what we see today. I mean, this band is, 70 00:03:48.400 --> 00:03:51.960 you know, bigger than ever. And you know a point 71 00:03:52.000 --> 00:03:54.319 of the book is that, Yeah, this was the moment, 72 00:03:54.479 --> 00:03:56.840 This was the moment that has shifted and you know, 73 00:03:57.199 --> 00:03:58.840 to get to this spot now. 74 00:03:59.439 --> 00:04:02.159 After you read your account of the December fifteen, nineteen 75 00:04:02.159 --> 00:04:05.840 eighty six performance, I watched it and I get goosebumps 76 00:04:05.879 --> 00:04:09.080 hearing that crowd erupped when Jerry sings I will get by, 77 00:04:09.159 --> 00:04:11.439 I Will survive. Take us back to that night and 78 00:04:11.479 --> 00:04:16.279 explain why that particular performance was so powerful following Jerry's 79 00:04:16.319 --> 00:04:19.279 health crisis and in light of what was about to 80 00:04:19.360 --> 00:04:21.920 happen with the song, because it hadn't been released yet. 81 00:04:22.160 --> 00:04:25.959 Yeah, precisely. I mean, Touch of Gray had been in 82 00:04:26.000 --> 00:04:31.399 the Dead's repertoire since nineteen eighty two, and this was 83 00:04:31.439 --> 00:04:35.040 a song that was familiar to fans. As you pointed out, 84 00:04:35.040 --> 00:04:39.519 it had not appeared on any recordings yet, any official recordings. 85 00:04:39.879 --> 00:04:43.839 I mean, the band hadn't released any recordings since nineteen 86 00:04:43.879 --> 00:04:47.480 eighty one. The live records Dead Set and Reckoning then 87 00:04:47.560 --> 00:04:52.160 released a studio album since since go to Heaven in 88 00:04:52.279 --> 00:04:57.360 nineteen eighty and so fans were familiar with the song. 89 00:04:57.639 --> 00:05:00.319 It was a popular tune. It was, you know, many ways, 90 00:05:00.399 --> 00:05:04.000 kind of one of the fastest songs in the Dead's 91 00:05:04.120 --> 00:05:08.360 live repertoire throughout much of the eighties. But nothing really 92 00:05:08.399 --> 00:05:11.439 stood out about it, you know, it was, you know, 93 00:05:11.600 --> 00:05:13.439 like I said, fans enjoyed it and it was a 94 00:05:13.439 --> 00:05:17.920 good time, but nothing really stood out. Jerry got sick 95 00:05:18.519 --> 00:05:22.319 in the summer of nineteen eighty six and was very, 96 00:05:22.439 --> 00:05:24.879 very ill, and it was very touch and go for 97 00:05:24.959 --> 00:05:30.680 a while, and fans, the band, the entire Grateful Dead organization, 98 00:05:32.800 --> 00:05:37.120 you know, had to well, the band and the fans organization. 99 00:05:37.319 --> 00:05:40.600 They were concerned. They didn't really you know, we're quite 100 00:05:41.279 --> 00:05:43.680 sure what was going to happen. The band had been 101 00:05:43.720 --> 00:05:48.120 living by making money from touring, and when Jerry got sick, 102 00:05:48.480 --> 00:05:51.040 that money stopped, so they weren't quite sure of what 103 00:05:51.120 --> 00:05:55.639 the future of the organization would be. And when it 104 00:05:55.680 --> 00:05:59.079 was finally announced that the band would be returning to 105 00:05:59.160 --> 00:06:03.839 playing live again in December of nineteen eighty six, obviously 106 00:06:03.920 --> 00:06:06.800 fans were elated. And then, you know, when the band 107 00:06:06.839 --> 00:06:09.199 took the stage and the very first song that they 108 00:06:09.279 --> 00:06:12.199 played was touch of Gray. You know, as you heard, 109 00:06:12.279 --> 00:06:16.639 I mean, the crowd lost it, you know, and you know, 110 00:06:16.720 --> 00:06:19.279 as I described in the book, you know, the response. 111 00:06:19.560 --> 00:06:21.560 There were a number of reasons for the response. I mean, 112 00:06:21.639 --> 00:06:24.079 just the pure joy of seeing the band again, you know, 113 00:06:24.160 --> 00:06:26.439 in light of everything that happened in the previous you know, 114 00:06:26.600 --> 00:06:30.240 few months, but also the fact they kind of knew 115 00:06:30.240 --> 00:06:32.959 what to expect in the song. And what I mean 116 00:06:33.040 --> 00:06:35.519 by that is that they knew that Jerry was going 117 00:06:35.600 --> 00:06:39.240 to sing I Will Survive and they were just waiting 118 00:06:39.480 --> 00:06:42.199 for that moment. You can hear it on the recordings. 119 00:06:42.240 --> 00:06:45.279 Every time the chorus comes up, you know, the response 120 00:06:45.360 --> 00:06:47.839 gets more and more, you know, raucous for. 121 00:06:47.839 --> 00:06:49.439 Those who may not be aware. So he was in 122 00:06:49.480 --> 00:06:53.199 a diabetic coma. He almost he almost died. 123 00:06:53.800 --> 00:06:56.600 Yes, his heart stopped when he was in the hospital too. 124 00:06:57.040 --> 00:06:59.879 He had been given vallum he was allergic to that. So, yes, 125 00:07:00.079 --> 00:07:03.839 he was in a diabetic coma. It was on dialysis. 126 00:07:03.959 --> 00:07:06.920 I mean, he was in very very bad shape, probably 127 00:07:07.000 --> 00:07:11.120 much worse than we kind of know. And so yeah, 128 00:07:11.160 --> 00:07:15.199 to see him back on stage, you know, six months later, 129 00:07:15.680 --> 00:07:18.040 you know, it was pretty remarkable. Well, I mean, he'd 130 00:07:18.040 --> 00:07:22.040 actually played in October. He'd played earlier with the Jerry 131 00:07:22.079 --> 00:07:26.360 Garcia Band. So remarkable recovery. But the band also had 132 00:07:26.360 --> 00:07:28.079 to get back on the road. They had to start 133 00:07:28.079 --> 00:07:32.519 making money again. And when they're hearing the song, right, 134 00:07:33.319 --> 00:07:36.480 I will survive, the fans are responding to that. But 135 00:07:36.519 --> 00:07:38.480 the fans, you know, they also knew at the very 136 00:07:38.560 --> 00:07:41.240 end of the tune, you know, the lyrics shift and 137 00:07:41.439 --> 00:07:46.199 they shift that we will survive. And you know, fans 138 00:07:46.199 --> 00:07:49.439 had been responding to that shift since nineteen eighty two. 139 00:07:49.560 --> 00:07:52.199 I think they've always kind of recognized maybe themselves in 140 00:07:52.240 --> 00:07:56.600 that we element. And December of nineteen eighty six, that 141 00:07:56.720 --> 00:07:58.519 was the moment where it just kind of blows up. 142 00:07:58.600 --> 00:08:01.439 You can just hear the response from the audience at 143 00:08:01.439 --> 00:08:04.360 that point. You know, the idea that the Dead were back, 144 00:08:04.759 --> 00:08:07.959 the dead Head community was still intact. You know, this 145 00:08:08.279 --> 00:08:11.240 was you know, a really joyous moment for the fans, 146 00:08:11.279 --> 00:08:15.199 but it was fraud because the band knew that, yeah, 147 00:08:15.240 --> 00:08:19.000 they had to do something, you know, and the decision 148 00:08:19.040 --> 00:08:21.759 then was all right, you know, we have to make 149 00:08:21.759 --> 00:08:26.199 a record, you know, and perhaps even make a record 150 00:08:26.240 --> 00:08:28.800 that's actually going to sell a few copies and make 151 00:08:28.879 --> 00:08:31.519 us some money. You know, given the situation that we 152 00:08:31.560 --> 00:08:32.440 are presently in. 153 00:08:33.039 --> 00:08:37.600 What I noticed in that video is Jerry's body language 154 00:08:37.600 --> 00:08:42.279 when he says I will survive, like he knows, he 155 00:08:42.559 --> 00:08:46.200 puts a little emphasis on that, you know. Oh yeah, 156 00:08:46.320 --> 00:08:48.200 And he's not one to do that, so he's not looking. 157 00:08:48.320 --> 00:08:51.440 He's not a performative type of person on stage, you know. 158 00:08:51.600 --> 00:08:55.399 He but even he couldn't help. But you know, he 159 00:08:55.440 --> 00:08:57.759 couldn't hold back that emotion there. 160 00:08:58.279 --> 00:09:01.080 Yeah, I mean there's so few INSS of any sort 161 00:09:01.080 --> 00:09:04.519 of interaction right between Jerry and the audience, and I 162 00:09:04.600 --> 00:09:08.840 mean this, this would be one of those moments that 163 00:09:08.879 --> 00:09:11.279 you would expect it and yeah, and it's slight, it's there, 164 00:09:11.559 --> 00:09:14.840 you know, but then it's just to move on, exactly. 165 00:09:15.960 --> 00:09:17.679 And that's a very dead thing to do. 166 00:09:18.759 --> 00:09:20.840 In fact, I would love to know prior to them 167 00:09:20.840 --> 00:09:24.120 going on stage if Jerry was uncomfortable doing that, because 168 00:09:24.120 --> 00:09:26.440 he never liked to make it about him, but there 169 00:09:26.480 --> 00:09:30.399 was you could not you could not not play that song, 170 00:09:30.720 --> 00:09:32.879 you know, to open that show. 171 00:09:33.200 --> 00:09:33.639 Yeah. 172 00:09:33.840 --> 00:09:36.399 Yeah. So the story of Touch a Grade begins with 173 00:09:36.519 --> 00:09:40.519 Robert Hunter, years before The Dead performed or recorded it. 174 00:09:40.639 --> 00:09:44.440 His nineteen eighty notebook contains dozens of possible verses, and 175 00:09:44.480 --> 00:09:48.080 he continued changing the lyrics in concert when he performed it. 176 00:09:48.399 --> 00:09:51.639 What do those discarded lyrics reveal about his original conception 177 00:09:51.759 --> 00:09:52.279 of the song. 178 00:09:52.799 --> 00:09:55.559 It's interesting. I mean he you know, listening to the 179 00:09:55.600 --> 00:09:59.559 early performances of the tune and looking at the lyrics 180 00:09:59.600 --> 00:10:01.480 and how they were changed. I mean, he treats it 181 00:10:01.600 --> 00:10:05.080 very much almost you know, like a folk troubadour singer, 182 00:10:05.240 --> 00:10:08.120 would you know, I mean I describe in the book. 183 00:10:08.159 --> 00:10:11.000 I mean when he would perform it be acoustic guitar 184 00:10:12.279 --> 00:10:15.399 with the harmonica around his neck. I mean, very Dylan esque. 185 00:10:16.679 --> 00:10:22.559 The tune itself has sections, but he treated it very fluidly. 186 00:10:22.840 --> 00:10:26.039 You know. He would kind of go verse choruses bridge 187 00:10:26.039 --> 00:10:28.279 as you know, I switch lyrics here and there. It 188 00:10:28.320 --> 00:10:31.559 was very much an open kind of a form. You 189 00:10:31.600 --> 00:10:35.120 would see changes to the lyrics throughout kind of the 190 00:10:35.399 --> 00:10:41.399 between nineteen eighty to nineteen eighty two. But in terms 191 00:10:41.480 --> 00:10:44.559 of kind of the overall shape of the song, you know, 192 00:10:44.639 --> 00:10:48.120 it's interesting to kind of follow it from Hunter's perspective 193 00:10:48.320 --> 00:10:51.960 because it's it always seemed to be kind of a 194 00:10:52.039 --> 00:10:56.960 work in progress, you know, and maybe you know, there 195 00:10:57.120 --> 00:11:00.240 was no kind of kind of final idea what it 196 00:11:00.279 --> 00:11:03.679 would become, you know, and that definitely changed once the 197 00:11:03.759 --> 00:11:07.039 dead got their hands on it in nineteen eighty two. 198 00:11:07.600 --> 00:11:13.720 Right the early version, the narrator sounds misanthropic, curmudgeonly responding 199 00:11:13.759 --> 00:11:19.440 to social decline, absurdity of what's going on around him, 200 00:11:20.000 --> 00:11:23.039 but he's responding with it's all right. Do you hear 201 00:11:23.080 --> 00:11:27.559 that phrases genuine reassurance, weary resignation, dark humor, or maybe 202 00:11:27.559 --> 00:11:31.000 some combination of all three, because Robert Hunter had that 203 00:11:31.080 --> 00:11:33.440 kind of personality precisely. 204 00:11:33.600 --> 00:11:36.480 Yeah, it's all three. It's any interpretation you want to 205 00:11:36.480 --> 00:11:38.399 bring to it. I mean, yes, there is that kind 206 00:11:38.399 --> 00:11:41.200 of resigned, you know, sense of all right, Well, that's 207 00:11:41.279 --> 00:11:44.879 just how it is. You know, there's an ironic sense 208 00:11:44.919 --> 00:11:46.879 to it. There are all those senses to it, and 209 00:11:46.919 --> 00:11:49.639 even with when the dead take it over, it's still there. 210 00:11:49.879 --> 00:11:52.759 You know. It's funny that the narrator of that song, 211 00:11:52.799 --> 00:11:55.320 it's kind of hard to pin down, you know, kind 212 00:11:55.399 --> 00:12:01.720 of what's happening, you know, why the reactions this way, 213 00:12:03.039 --> 00:12:06.279 But ultimately it doesn't matter, because you're right, it's all right. 214 00:12:06.480 --> 00:12:08.919 It just kind of returns to that. And I think 215 00:12:09.399 --> 00:12:13.159 that is also a very kind of dead lyric too, 216 00:12:13.559 --> 00:12:15.679 you know, standing in the face of any type of 217 00:12:15.679 --> 00:12:20.080 adversity or anything that's going on, or any absurdity, It's 218 00:12:20.120 --> 00:12:23.360 all right, you know, let the situation is in charge, 219 00:12:23.519 --> 00:12:25.240 and you know, we'll take care of it. 220 00:12:25.600 --> 00:12:28.039 And going back to the we will survive part at 221 00:12:28.080 --> 00:12:31.200 the end, Hunter initially saying we can get on by, 222 00:12:31.840 --> 00:12:34.399 but Garcia changed it to the more personal I will 223 00:12:34.440 --> 00:12:37.360 get by before the song returned to we will survive 224 00:12:37.399 --> 00:12:40.080 at the end. How important was that movement from the 225 00:12:40.080 --> 00:12:44.080 individual to the collective in creating the song's emotional impact. 226 00:12:44.720 --> 00:12:47.799 I think it's incredibly important. I mean, it's the debut 227 00:12:47.840 --> 00:12:51.720 performance of Hunter doing it in nineteen eighty. You can 228 00:12:51.840 --> 00:12:55.720 listen to the live recording on Internet at archive, and 229 00:12:56.399 --> 00:12:59.480 you know, when he says we you hear a response 230 00:12:59.480 --> 00:13:02.399 from the audio, you know right away. You know there's 231 00:13:02.440 --> 00:13:05.320 a sense of you know, wanting to be involved, you know, 232 00:13:05.399 --> 00:13:07.759 And this is always something I think very much part 233 00:13:07.799 --> 00:13:12.039 of the Dead culture. Dead fans always kind of sensing 234 00:13:12.080 --> 00:13:16.480 this relationship, you know, imagining this kind of communal relationship 235 00:13:16.559 --> 00:13:21.120 to it. When the Dead took it over, I think 236 00:13:21.120 --> 00:13:25.919 they understood definitely the rhetorical impact of what that meant 237 00:13:26.080 --> 00:13:29.399 to the song and to the fans. You know, so 238 00:13:29.440 --> 00:13:33.679 I kind of trace, you know, how that section gets shifted. 239 00:13:33.799 --> 00:13:36.279 You know that we can get by, get on by. 240 00:13:37.080 --> 00:13:39.919 You know, Hunter would always kind of vary those texts 241 00:13:40.120 --> 00:13:42.279 a little bit, but you're right, as soon as it 242 00:13:42.320 --> 00:13:46.879 got with the band, I Will Survive, We Will Survive, 243 00:13:47.200 --> 00:13:51.720 you know, became a very kind of established form. But 244 00:13:51.799 --> 00:13:54.759 what I think is very interesting is understanding when that 245 00:13:54.840 --> 00:14:00.279 shift occurs, you know, in the song itself, because said 246 00:14:00.279 --> 00:14:04.639 it had been occurring earlier in performances, and it kind 247 00:14:04.679 --> 00:14:07.399 of took away from the dramatic impact of when that 248 00:14:07.519 --> 00:14:10.919 kind of really hits with the audience. And so by 249 00:14:10.960 --> 00:14:13.600 the end of nineteen eighty two, as the band continued 250 00:14:13.600 --> 00:14:15.879 to kind of mold it on the road, that's when 251 00:14:15.919 --> 00:14:18.879 they decided to wait for the We Will Survive to 252 00:14:18.879 --> 00:14:21.840 put it at the very end of the tune. So 253 00:14:22.000 --> 00:14:26.159 instead of just one more chorus, it now becomes a coda. 254 00:14:26.639 --> 00:14:29.360 It becomes this triumphant coda where you know, you can 255 00:14:29.440 --> 00:14:33.759 feel the expectation and the drive kind of building towards it, 256 00:14:34.360 --> 00:14:38.840 which is a much more dramatic musical, rhetorical effect than 257 00:14:38.879 --> 00:14:41.759 what was happening before, you know, when the shift took 258 00:14:41.799 --> 00:14:43.879 place earlier in the song and I. 259 00:14:43.960 --> 00:14:46.720 Love you could hear Jerry really hit the chords hard. 260 00:14:46.879 --> 00:14:51.080 Man, Yeah, definitely, you know, and it's interesting, Yeah, you 261 00:14:51.159 --> 00:14:54.720 hear it and he's hitting it hard. It's you know, 262 00:14:54.840 --> 00:14:57.039 you listen to some of these early performances, it's because 263 00:14:57.080 --> 00:14:59.799 they're still like figuring out the tune, you know, because 264 00:14:59.840 --> 00:15:03.639 the is continuing to change each night, you know, night 265 00:15:03.679 --> 00:15:06.639 to night it might change, and so I just imagine 266 00:15:06.639 --> 00:15:08.720 what it must have been like on stage, you know, 267 00:15:08.960 --> 00:15:12.679 being a musician and having performed you know, doing live improv. 268 00:15:12.759 --> 00:15:15.679 You know, not sure quite you know where this is 269 00:15:15.720 --> 00:15:17.480 going to happen. You know, there was a lot of 270 00:15:17.600 --> 00:15:20.720 kind of uncertainty in some of those early performances. You know, 271 00:15:21.000 --> 00:15:22.840 it's fun to listen to those, really. 272 00:15:22.720 --> 00:15:26.639 Is Yeah, that that extra you know, like I said, 273 00:15:26.639 --> 00:15:29.559 when he's hitting those cordially hard, it's like defiance or 274 00:15:29.600 --> 00:15:32.759 it's it's just something there's something in there that it 275 00:15:32.840 --> 00:15:34.919 was coming out of Jerrea at that moment. You could 276 00:15:34.919 --> 00:15:37.879 feel it. And they debuted it on September fifteen, nineteen 277 00:15:37.919 --> 00:15:41.039 eighty two, Capital Center in Maryland, performed it for nearly 278 00:15:41.080 --> 00:15:44.360 five years before recording it. How did the song evolve 279 00:15:44.480 --> 00:15:46.879 during that period? How different was the first performance from 280 00:15:46.879 --> 00:15:51.039 the eventual studio version, not just lyrically, but the pace 281 00:15:51.080 --> 00:15:54.639 of it, Right, it's a little faster in their early only. 282 00:15:55.159 --> 00:15:57.600 Yeah. Well, what's interesting if you listen to some of 283 00:15:57.600 --> 00:16:03.200 the earliest recordings, and one of them was from nineteen 284 00:16:03.240 --> 00:16:06.000 eighty two, there is a studio kind of recording. It's 285 00:16:06.000 --> 00:16:10.600 one of the earliest recordings of the tune, and it's 286 00:16:10.679 --> 00:16:13.440 it's a lot of the shape is there, most of 287 00:16:13.480 --> 00:16:16.039 the melody and the chords and stuff there. The form 288 00:16:16.480 --> 00:16:19.720 is there, you know, for from what we've become familiar 289 00:16:19.759 --> 00:16:22.320 with it. One of the main things that's very different 290 00:16:22.360 --> 00:16:25.919 about it is the song is has a halftime feel 291 00:16:27.000 --> 00:16:29.480 instead of you know, that strong snare drum on two 292 00:16:29.519 --> 00:16:35.240 and four, and it's more of this reggae feel that 293 00:16:35.720 --> 00:16:40.480 d d d dam dum dum, you know. So it 294 00:16:40.559 --> 00:16:43.960 has this kind of slower groove to it that kind 295 00:16:43.960 --> 00:16:46.399 of fits in with some of their more contemporary tunes 296 00:16:46.440 --> 00:16:49.080 that also kind of had, you know, this reggae type 297 00:16:49.080 --> 00:16:52.039 of feel, you know, Roe Jimmy and tunes like that, Right, 298 00:16:53.799 --> 00:16:56.200 But they got rid of that, you know, within a 299 00:16:56.240 --> 00:16:59.360 few months. Within a few months, they start playing it 300 00:16:59.600 --> 00:17:03.480 more with that driving backbeat with the snare drums on 301 00:17:03.600 --> 00:17:07.839 beats two and four, And once they start incorporating that, 302 00:17:07.839 --> 00:17:11.039 that's really when the tempo starts to pick up at 303 00:17:11.079 --> 00:17:14.279 that point, and yeah, it becomes, you know, just kind 304 00:17:14.279 --> 00:17:17.680 of this barn burner type of song on many occasions. 305 00:17:18.400 --> 00:17:22.599 But by the end of nineteen eighty two, until you know, 306 00:17:22.680 --> 00:17:26.359 really the end of their career, the arrangement stayed essentially 307 00:17:26.599 --> 00:17:31.119 the same, you know, in terms of the forms with 308 00:17:31.160 --> 00:17:34.200 this section, what comes next, the lyrics, et cetera, and 309 00:17:34.240 --> 00:17:39.039 all that. The instrumentation, though, is going to change a 310 00:17:39.039 --> 00:17:42.720 little bit once they go into the recording studio in 311 00:17:42.839 --> 00:17:45.480 nineteen eighty seven and start kind of experimenting with some 312 00:17:45.519 --> 00:17:47.559 of the arrangement at that point. 313 00:17:50.400 --> 00:17:54.480 Was it Phil Lesh that inspired that coda ending because 314 00:17:54.519 --> 00:17:56.799 he thought that the original ending sounded clumsy? 315 00:17:57.279 --> 00:17:59.480 Yeah, if you listen to that early recording, that didn't 316 00:17:59.519 --> 00:18:01.440 quite no, So you know, how to end it? And 317 00:18:01.559 --> 00:18:03.799 Jerry's the one who says, yeah, I've got to figure 318 00:18:03.799 --> 00:18:06.519 out some way to end it. It's an interesting what 319 00:18:06.599 --> 00:18:09.680 you can hear Lesh saying, and this is on the 320 00:18:09.720 --> 00:18:14.079 expanded edition of in the Dark that was originally included 321 00:18:14.119 --> 00:18:19.440 on the Beyond Description box that came out. You can 322 00:18:19.480 --> 00:18:23.079 hear Phil Lesh at the very end saying that it 323 00:18:23.160 --> 00:18:25.880 sounds like a song that we can get excited about, 324 00:18:26.880 --> 00:18:29.960 you know, which is you know, somewhat prophetic, you know, 325 00:18:30.839 --> 00:18:32.960 and it's very interesting. You listen to the recording and 326 00:18:33.000 --> 00:18:34.920 it kind of fades out right at that moment, you know, 327 00:18:34.960 --> 00:18:38.640 it's a very kind of dramatic thing. And so, yeah, 328 00:18:38.880 --> 00:18:41.160 it's a song they're working on. They were expanding the 329 00:18:41.240 --> 00:18:46.599 repertoire at that time. West La Fadeaway was entering the 330 00:18:46.680 --> 00:18:50.240 repertoire at that time. Keep Your Day Job was another 331 00:18:50.319 --> 00:18:53.599 one too, So at the time, really it was just 332 00:18:53.720 --> 00:18:55.960 one of a bunch of tunes that they were, you know, 333 00:18:56.119 --> 00:18:59.279 adding to the live repertoire beginning in nineteen eighty two. 334 00:19:00.119 --> 00:19:02.799 Before we get into the recording of it, we mentioned 335 00:19:02.839 --> 00:19:05.640 Jerry's coleman in nineteen eighty six that forced the Dead 336 00:19:05.720 --> 00:19:08.319 to cancel their faults at a time when the organization 337 00:19:08.480 --> 00:19:13.680 depended heavily on concert revenue. The operating expenses around two 338 00:19:13.720 --> 00:19:16.920 hundred and thirty five thousand dollars a month. How bad 339 00:19:17.000 --> 00:19:19.119 was the band's financial state at that point, and why 340 00:19:19.119 --> 00:19:21.839 did recording a new album become part of this solution. 341 00:19:22.279 --> 00:19:27.599 There is a breakdown, financial breakdown from July of nineteen 342 00:19:27.640 --> 00:19:32.880 eighty six, and it kind of shows the you know, 343 00:19:33.920 --> 00:19:36.440 the overhead, you know that they're paying the two hundred 344 00:19:36.440 --> 00:19:40.119 and thirty five thousand. Then it shows expected income, you know, 345 00:19:40.160 --> 00:19:42.359 and what they might expect to make from live shows. 346 00:19:42.480 --> 00:19:45.400 And you would see these financial breakdowns, you know, throughout 347 00:19:45.440 --> 00:19:49.079 the band's career. But what's interesting about this one is 348 00:19:49.119 --> 00:19:51.400 that it says, you know, at the very bottom of 349 00:19:51.440 --> 00:19:54.440 it the details, you know, what happens if Jerry doesn't 350 00:19:54.440 --> 00:19:57.319 get any better, you know, by the time that they 351 00:19:57.400 --> 00:20:00.319 can get on the road. And so so there are 352 00:20:00.319 --> 00:20:03.640 two very different figures, you know, on the sheets, you know, 353 00:20:03.759 --> 00:20:08.119 just depending upon how things go. And so they very 354 00:20:08.200 --> 00:20:11.680 much knew that they kind of had to change. You know, 355 00:20:11.799 --> 00:20:13.880 they'd been living on the road for a long time 356 00:20:15.759 --> 00:20:18.720 getting money by touring again. It was going to take 357 00:20:18.759 --> 00:20:22.640 a while, you know, they needed they would it's in 358 00:20:22.720 --> 00:20:24.759 terms of when they would get paid from these gigs 359 00:20:24.799 --> 00:20:26.880 and even not knowing when they would get back up 360 00:20:26.920 --> 00:20:32.000 on the road making a record. However, it's the possibility 361 00:20:32.039 --> 00:20:37.279 of making some money up front through advances, especially through 362 00:20:37.319 --> 00:20:40.039 the label, would be one way, finding a way to 363 00:20:40.160 --> 00:20:45.799 tide themselves over in the meantime until they could return 364 00:20:45.839 --> 00:20:49.359 to the road and until the record would come out. 365 00:20:50.279 --> 00:20:54.279 And so, you know, studio albums, you know, within the 366 00:20:54.359 --> 00:21:02.079 Dead kind of history are always not always, but the 367 00:21:02.119 --> 00:21:05.039 Dead's always perceived as a live band, sure, right, the 368 00:21:05.240 --> 00:21:08.680 records we always hear never really were able to capture 369 00:21:09.119 --> 00:21:11.880 what the Dead were all about. You know, we've heard 370 00:21:11.880 --> 00:21:13.599 that story. I talk about that a lot in a 371 00:21:13.680 --> 00:21:16.440 previous book I did on the Dead called Live Dead. 372 00:21:17.759 --> 00:21:21.400 So the idea of a studio album was interesting because 373 00:21:22.039 --> 00:21:25.079 most fans would not look upon the studio albums. It's like, 374 00:21:25.119 --> 00:21:26.920 all right, this is what we're looking for, this is 375 00:21:26.960 --> 00:21:30.400 what we're anticipating. But we weren't sure if the Dead 376 00:21:30.440 --> 00:21:32.000 were going to be back on the road again to 377 00:21:32.079 --> 00:21:35.440 record a live album, studio album was going to be 378 00:21:35.440 --> 00:21:38.039 the way to do it in the meantime. Yeah, So 379 00:21:38.759 --> 00:21:41.720 in January of nineteen eighty seven, shortly after those shows 380 00:21:41.720 --> 00:21:46.240 in Oakland where Jerry returned, the band convened and started 381 00:21:46.319 --> 00:21:51.720 laying down basic tracks in marine vettes for about two 382 00:21:51.880 --> 00:21:55.279 two and a half weeks, and then through the spring 383 00:21:55.839 --> 00:21:57.799 worked on overdubs for the record. 384 00:21:58.039 --> 00:22:01.480 Yeah, they recorded the basic tracks live on stage at 385 00:22:01.519 --> 00:22:05.359 the Marren Vettman's Memori Laudatorium that setting. Why was that 386 00:22:05.440 --> 00:22:07.680 so effective in capturing the studio performance? 387 00:22:08.160 --> 00:22:13.799 John Cutler, the producer for that record, probably recommended that 388 00:22:13.960 --> 00:22:15.640 this would be a really good way to kind of 389 00:22:15.720 --> 00:22:20.039 get that type of energy in these recorded performances. And 390 00:22:20.160 --> 00:22:24.119 they knew the hall very well, and they had recorded 391 00:22:24.160 --> 00:22:26.839 in the hall and had gotten some really good recordings 392 00:22:26.880 --> 00:22:30.039 there a couple of years earlier, and so they were, 393 00:22:30.119 --> 00:22:32.480 you know, based upon the experience of some recordings they 394 00:22:32.559 --> 00:22:34.960 did in nineteen eighty five, they decided to return there. 395 00:22:36.319 --> 00:22:41.400 They brought along Gheech, Charbonneau and Lmobile, one of the 396 00:22:41.640 --> 00:22:45.240 kind of premiere mobile recording studios at the time, set 397 00:22:45.319 --> 00:22:49.680 up outside and Yeah, had them set up on stage 398 00:22:50.519 --> 00:22:57.079 in morin vets empty playing through tunes. They had a 399 00:22:57.559 --> 00:23:00.839 very you know, established set list a cent the songs 400 00:23:00.880 --> 00:23:03.240 that you see on in the dark were the songs 401 00:23:03.279 --> 00:23:05.920