WEBVTT 1 00:00:00.120 --> 00:00:03.040 We're all born with the ability to pay attention and 2 00:00:03.080 --> 00:00:06.320 to be still, and to intuit what's happening in our 3 00:00:06.400 --> 00:00:09.640 lives and what works and doesn't work, and what's fulfilling 4 00:00:09.679 --> 00:00:11.800 and not fulfilling. It's just that we live in a 5 00:00:11.839 --> 00:00:15.679 society that kind of squashes that, because those of us 6 00:00:15.679 --> 00:00:19.480 who are connected to self and connected to intuition are 7 00:00:19.519 --> 00:00:22.679 actually pretty dangerous to systems who kind of function on 8 00:00:22.719 --> 00:00:24.960 the backs of those of us who look outside of 9 00:00:25.000 --> 00:00:26.160 ourselves for validation. 10 00:00:27.879 --> 00:00:28.039 Hi. 11 00:00:28.079 --> 00:00:30.800 Everyone, my name is Haley and this is Lara, and 12 00:00:30.879 --> 00:00:37.759 welcome to the Body Pod. Welcome Vanessa Bennett. As I 13 00:00:37.920 --> 00:00:40.880 was just stating offline, I am so excited to have 14 00:00:40.960 --> 00:00:43.560 you here. Welcome to the Body Pod. 15 00:00:44.000 --> 00:00:45.200 I'm so excited to be here. 16 00:00:46.640 --> 00:00:49.600 So I just want to dive in write at first, 17 00:00:50.520 --> 00:00:53.280 as I mentioned, I had no clue that I've never 18 00:00:53.320 --> 00:00:55.560 even heard of half of these terms that I'm reading 19 00:00:55.759 --> 00:01:00.359 your bio and your books. So what is depth psychology? 20 00:01:01.079 --> 00:01:03.520 Yeah, it's it's a question I get a lot, actually, 21 00:01:03.600 --> 00:01:05.599 So part of the reason why I wrote the book. 22 00:01:06.239 --> 00:01:09.799 Dep psychology is really an umbrella term that we use 23 00:01:09.879 --> 00:01:15.400 for Jungian psychology, analytical psychology, and archetypal psychology. So dep 24 00:01:15.439 --> 00:01:19.079 psychology is known as the psychology of the soul, and 25 00:01:19.439 --> 00:01:23.879 it is more of again being union. In practice, it's 26 00:01:23.920 --> 00:01:29.200 a lot more interested in the collective and the individual 27 00:01:29.359 --> 00:01:32.840 as kind of an inseparable entity. Right, you cannot look 28 00:01:32.879 --> 00:01:35.599 at the individual without the collective and vice versa. We 29 00:01:35.680 --> 00:01:38.439 also work with a lot of unconscious materials. So this 30 00:01:38.480 --> 00:01:40.760 is where the archetypes and the dreams and the image 31 00:01:40.799 --> 00:01:43.680 and the metaphor come into play, because the unconscious actually 32 00:01:43.760 --> 00:01:46.719 speaks to us through those languages. They don't, it doesn't 33 00:01:46.760 --> 00:01:49.239 speak through what we would know as language. So a 34 00:01:49.280 --> 00:01:51.400 lot of times I'm working with kind of what's not 35 00:01:51.480 --> 00:01:55.239 being said, like the undercurrent, if you will, And it 36 00:01:55.359 --> 00:01:58.879 really has this one driving force, which is this idea 37 00:01:59.159 --> 00:02:04.439 of individuation. It's the soul's path kind of you in 38 00:02:04.480 --> 00:02:09.520 this embodiment and really helping that person move forward on 39 00:02:09.599 --> 00:02:12.080 that soul's journey, on that soul's path, like whatever is 40 00:02:12.120 --> 00:02:12.800 best for the soul. 41 00:02:14.039 --> 00:02:17.080 So what does a session look like when somebody comes 42 00:02:17.120 --> 00:02:21.199 to you, I mean, are they looking as let me 43 00:02:21.240 --> 00:02:24.599 just read this because this really caught my attention in 44 00:02:24.680 --> 00:02:27.360 your bio where you say before I became a therapist. 45 00:02:27.400 --> 00:02:29.759 I spent over a decade in the fast paced world 46 00:02:29.800 --> 00:02:32.280 of corporate New York. On paper I had made it. 47 00:02:32.400 --> 00:02:34.360 I cannot tell you. Let me just pause there. I 48 00:02:34.360 --> 00:02:37.680 cannot tell you how many women I know that this 49 00:02:37.759 --> 00:02:40.800 resonates with. I only work with midlife women, obviously in 50 00:02:40.840 --> 00:02:43.680 the fitness realm, so I'm not going into this emotional 51 00:02:43.879 --> 00:02:49.960 psychological realm. But it all plays into this connected, all 52 00:02:49.960 --> 00:02:53.960 connected in this life. And by saying but underneath, I 53 00:02:53.960 --> 00:02:56.879 felt disconnected, anxious and numb and like I was living 54 00:02:56.960 --> 00:03:00.319 someone else's life. How did you get to I mean, 55 00:03:00.319 --> 00:03:02.400 clearly you got to that point, and how did you 56 00:03:02.439 --> 00:03:05.599 have the courage to kind of transition there? Because this 57 00:03:05.960 --> 00:03:11.520 speaks to midlife women like I've nothing I've ever heard. 58 00:03:12.560 --> 00:03:14.520 A lot of us are coming into the space where 59 00:03:14.520 --> 00:03:17.680 we're like, great, now we have perimenopause and menopause, and 60 00:03:17.719 --> 00:03:21.319 our bodies are changing, and our kids. You know, I 61 00:03:21.360 --> 00:03:25.360 have struggled with just troubled teens, we have aging parents, 62 00:03:25.360 --> 00:03:27.159 we have all of these things, and then now we're 63 00:03:27.199 --> 00:03:30.599 like questioning. I don't even think I would love your 64 00:03:31.000 --> 00:03:33.080 take on this too. I don't even think it's necessarily 65 00:03:33.120 --> 00:03:37.080 a midlife crisis. It's like a midnight midlife awaken awake, 66 00:03:37.159 --> 00:03:39.639 and like, where do I want to spend the rest 67 00:03:39.639 --> 00:03:42.719 of my like half of my life is over? Where 68 00:03:42.719 --> 00:03:46.400 do I go from here in the next portion? And 69 00:03:46.439 --> 00:03:48.960 I'm assuming all of that comes into your practice. So 70 00:03:49.039 --> 00:03:51.680 that was a lot of questions involved in there. So 71 00:03:51.719 --> 00:03:52.680 I'm going to let you just. 72 00:03:52.960 --> 00:03:56.800 Let's pull some threads up. I'll pull some threads. I 73 00:03:56.800 --> 00:04:00.560 can do this, okay, So first off, I would say, 74 00:04:00.879 --> 00:04:05.800 for me the idea of like when did this happen 75 00:04:05.840 --> 00:04:08.199 for me? There's this moment too around what we would 76 00:04:08.240 --> 00:04:10.599 call like the quarter life crisis. And the thing that 77 00:04:10.599 --> 00:04:12.280 a lot of people don't understand is that the concept 78 00:04:12.280 --> 00:04:14.960 of the midlife crisis is actually a Junian concept. You'll 79 00:04:15.039 --> 00:04:18.600 actually coined that term, and it really was more of 80 00:04:18.639 --> 00:04:20.720 an awakening to use your work, which I think is 81 00:04:20.759 --> 00:04:24.000 so brilliant. But there's also more than just the one. 82 00:04:24.160 --> 00:04:26.279 There's also a quarter life that we see happen too, 83 00:04:26.319 --> 00:04:28.399 and so this could be what we would call saturn 84 00:04:28.480 --> 00:04:31.199 return if you're talking about it astrologically, right, some people 85 00:04:31.240 --> 00:04:33.680 know that term, but it's that moment where you start 86 00:04:33.720 --> 00:04:36.519 to go something doesn't feel right. I've been checking the 87 00:04:36.560 --> 00:04:38.959 boxes and I still don't feel like I'm you know, 88 00:04:39.160 --> 00:04:42.079 happy or satisfy with my life. And for me, it 89 00:04:42.160 --> 00:04:44.560 was around that time when I started being like, huh. 90 00:04:44.759 --> 00:04:47.439 And I talk a lot in my sessions with my 91 00:04:47.480 --> 00:04:50.319 clients about this concept of bread crumbs, and so what 92 00:04:50.399 --> 00:04:53.639 I started doing was just following my bread crumbs. I 93 00:04:53.800 --> 00:04:56.959 just started leaning into what brings me a sense of 94 00:04:57.000 --> 00:05:01.120 a liveness, not questioning it, just into it and then 95 00:05:01.240 --> 00:05:03.480 allowing one bread crumb to lead to another to lead 96 00:05:03.519 --> 00:05:06.399 to another. And so that was really what ended up 97 00:05:06.480 --> 00:05:10.680 putting me in my Depth psychology program, coming from advertising 98 00:05:10.680 --> 00:05:14.319 and switching my career entirely was the breadcrumbs that just 99 00:05:14.360 --> 00:05:17.720 started like lending themselves to me being fascinated by all 100 00:05:17.759 --> 00:05:21.639 of this stuff. And now here I am also midlife, right, 101 00:05:21.680 --> 00:05:23.680 And the next awakening I had, whether we call a 102 00:05:23.680 --> 00:05:26.839 midlike crisis or not, was around becoming a mom. It's 103 00:05:26.959 --> 00:05:29.519 really these moments in our lives where I would say 104 00:05:29.600 --> 00:05:33.000 it's an ego explosion, it's an ego death. Everything you 105 00:05:33.079 --> 00:05:37.079 think you were, everything you thought you knew suddenly like implodes, right. 106 00:05:37.120 --> 00:05:40.000 All the tools that you thought were working suddenly don't work. Anymore, 107 00:05:40.040 --> 00:05:42.680 and you're like, what the hell is going on? That's 108 00:05:42.720 --> 00:05:44.639 that moment, that's that threshold. 109 00:05:45.439 --> 00:05:47.759 Holy cow, Okay, hold on, let's just back up really quick. 110 00:05:47.800 --> 00:05:49.839 And then Lara has something to say because she's a 111 00:05:49.879 --> 00:05:54.560 new mom as a two year old, you know, ling 112 00:05:55.399 --> 00:05:57.680 later part of the forties, so this is all new 113 00:05:57.680 --> 00:06:00.639 where I had my kid kits in my twenties and thirties. 114 00:06:01.360 --> 00:06:04.319 But I just want to go back. You weren't advertising, it. 115 00:06:04.399 --> 00:06:07.279 Was I was. I was a creative producer for like 116 00:06:07.759 --> 00:06:11.680 twelve years before I changed careers, So something about like 117 00:06:11.759 --> 00:06:15.480 storytelling and image and archetype and metaphor was obviously already 118 00:06:15.519 --> 00:06:17.680 alive in me. But I think I was maybe just 119 00:06:17.680 --> 00:06:19.040 like putting it through another channel. 120 00:06:19.920 --> 00:06:21.319 I love it. I just have to say that because 121 00:06:21.319 --> 00:06:23.600 my husband's in advertising and we were in New York 122 00:06:24.160 --> 00:06:26.480 and so we've done this whole thing and it's just 123 00:06:26.639 --> 00:06:29.519 it is. I mean, it happens in men as well, 124 00:06:29.600 --> 00:06:34.240 but specifically since we're a female audience, this transition, How 125 00:06:34.240 --> 00:06:36.279 did you even have the courage? Because I'm sure that 126 00:06:36.399 --> 00:06:39.279 you had this back and forth. I can't leave this 127 00:06:39.519 --> 00:06:43.839 super crusty, secure job that I'm good at, and maybe 128 00:06:43.879 --> 00:06:46.000 I'm going to go start this and hope for the best. 129 00:06:46.040 --> 00:06:48.600 I mean, there's a lot I'm imagining that this was 130 00:06:48.600 --> 00:06:51.279 not just an overnight I'm going to do this bye. 131 00:06:51.199 --> 00:06:54.040 No, absolutely not. And I didn't just leave a career. 132 00:06:54.240 --> 00:06:57.360 I left a fiance, I left a life, I left 133 00:06:57.399 --> 00:07:00.439 my family, I left everything, and I packed up in 134 00:07:00.439 --> 00:07:02.160 across the country on my own. 135 00:07:02.519 --> 00:07:03.000 Wow. 136 00:07:03.519 --> 00:07:05.439 Yeah, but it was after to your point, it wasn't 137 00:07:05.480 --> 00:07:07.720 an overnight thing. Right. This is why I say breadcrumbs 138 00:07:07.759 --> 00:07:10.079 because I'm sure, like you all, somebody comes in and 139 00:07:10.079 --> 00:07:12.639 they're like, I want to change everything right now, and 140 00:07:12.680 --> 00:07:14.879 you're like, all right, well, whoha, whoa back up? Right, 141 00:07:15.279 --> 00:07:18.439 Let's kind of do this in increments. And that was 142 00:07:18.519 --> 00:07:20.959 really what I did. And I was still working full 143 00:07:21.000 --> 00:07:24.160 time when I was in grad school, so I didn't 144 00:07:24.160 --> 00:07:26.920 have any kind of financial backing. I don't come from money, 145 00:07:26.959 --> 00:07:28.279 so I was like, I got to work as long 146 00:07:28.319 --> 00:07:31.120 as possible. So I was doing both full time, and 147 00:07:31.639 --> 00:07:34.759 it was it was a slow but then rewarding process. 148 00:07:34.800 --> 00:07:37.160 When I actually finally did make the leap, I think 149 00:07:37.160 --> 00:07:38.720 I kind of already had. I felt like I had 150 00:07:38.720 --> 00:07:41.519 my feet underneath me. Although it was still big risk 151 00:07:41.720 --> 00:07:45.199 to finally leave the job, and let's be real, I 152 00:07:45.240 --> 00:07:47.519 went back to like the broke college student in like 153 00:07:47.600 --> 00:07:50.519 my early to mid thirties, and I had to take 154 00:07:50.560 --> 00:07:52.360 a little bit of like a leap of faith. You know. 155 00:07:52.720 --> 00:07:55.279 Yeah, well there's ego in that too. One part of 156 00:07:55.319 --> 00:07:59.879 your side is everyone has something to say about where 157 00:07:59.879 --> 00:08:02.120 you are in your life and to have to go 158 00:08:02.199 --> 00:08:03.800 back it's it's it's humbling. 159 00:08:04.120 --> 00:08:05.439 It is humbling. It's a great word. 160 00:08:05.639 --> 00:08:08.519 Wow. Okay, So so you come here, you get into 161 00:08:08.519 --> 00:08:12.920 this depth psychology. I'm so curious what a session looks 162 00:08:12.959 --> 00:08:16.879 like when someone comes in. It's not like a life coach. 163 00:08:17.120 --> 00:08:20.040 So someone comes in to see you, and what are 164 00:08:20.079 --> 00:08:23.279 they seeking? What are you helping? Because I love like 165 00:08:23.279 --> 00:08:27.120 the inner child, the trauma, all of that. So when 166 00:08:27.120 --> 00:08:29.319 I read the definition, I was like, I've got to dive. 167 00:08:29.399 --> 00:08:33.120 I've got to dive into this with her because yeah, 168 00:08:34.000 --> 00:08:35.759 now I'm like I need a session, but I don't 169 00:08:35.799 --> 00:08:39.200 even know, Like what. 170 00:08:39.200 --> 00:08:40.679 Do I I think I need something, but what do 171 00:08:40.720 --> 00:08:41.039 I need? 172 00:08:41.960 --> 00:08:43.159 For sure? I'll need something? 173 00:08:44.480 --> 00:08:46.559 Yeah. So what I like to say, you know I 174 00:08:46.559 --> 00:08:48.799 mentioned is like it's the psychology of the soul. Right, 175 00:08:48.879 --> 00:08:52.440 So oftentimes when people come in What I find happens 176 00:08:52.480 --> 00:08:55.080 pretty regularly is somebody will come in and they'll say, 177 00:08:55.360 --> 00:08:58.799 I'm unhappy at work. I'm I'm feeling like I'm in 178 00:08:58.799 --> 00:09:01.679 this transition of my life, you know, I'm I feel 179 00:09:01.799 --> 00:09:04.360 just like unmotivated and I don't really know what's wrong. 180 00:09:04.399 --> 00:09:09.480 And then within like maybe three sessions, we're deeply into 181 00:09:09.919 --> 00:09:12.759 my twenty year marriage is completely unfulfilling, and that's actually 182 00:09:12.759 --> 00:09:14.679 why I'm here. But I didn't even know that that's 183 00:09:14.799 --> 00:09:17.000 was why I was here until we were talking for 184 00:09:17.080 --> 00:09:20.320 like multiple sessions. That happens all the time, or like, oh, 185 00:09:20.320 --> 00:09:23.639 I just feel this like general sense of malaise, and 186 00:09:23.639 --> 00:09:25.519 then like come to find out, you know, there's a 187 00:09:25.559 --> 00:09:28.000 lot of trauma, there's a lot of abuse in the relationships. 188 00:09:28.039 --> 00:09:31.159 Like whatever that is, it's usually some kind of almost 189 00:09:31.200 --> 00:09:34.720 like a flag, right, And so the psyche starts telling 190 00:09:34.759 --> 00:09:37.360 you in ways that most of us don't know how 191 00:09:37.360 --> 00:09:40.320 to listen to it that it is ready to change, 192 00:09:40.399 --> 00:09:42.399 that it is ready to face something, that it's ready 193 00:09:42.440 --> 00:09:44.600 to unpack something that you kind of had stored away 194 00:09:44.639 --> 00:09:48.080 for a long time. And oftentimes it will show up 195 00:09:48.080 --> 00:09:50.840 again as like some anxiety, some discomfort and You'll come 196 00:09:50.879 --> 00:09:53.879 into a session and we start pulling threads and we're like, oh, 197 00:09:53.919 --> 00:09:56.600 there it is. So a lot of it still looks 198 00:09:56.639 --> 00:09:58.960 like what most of us would consider like air quote 199 00:09:58.960 --> 00:10:01.799 traditional you know thing therapy. But I like to talk 200 00:10:01.840 --> 00:10:04.960 about the fact that there's a difference between ego work 201 00:10:05.480 --> 00:10:09.080 and soul work. So ego work, I would say, is 202 00:10:09.159 --> 00:10:12.919 kind of the base that most therapy is kind of 203 00:10:13.320 --> 00:10:16.240 established on in this country, which is most of us 204 00:10:16.240 --> 00:10:18.960 know about like CBT for example, that's the one that 205 00:10:18.960 --> 00:10:22.360 everybody knows about, right, and what is that? It's behavioral techniques, 206 00:10:22.440 --> 00:10:25.720 behavioral changes and tweaks to help you, you know, live 207 00:10:25.759 --> 00:10:27.639 your best life if you will. And so it might 208 00:10:27.639 --> 00:10:30.399 be thought stopping techniques, it might be breathing, it might 209 00:10:30.399 --> 00:10:36.320 be right great, important, foundational However, I would say that 210 00:10:36.320 --> 00:10:39.720 that kind of stops at ego. Now we need to 211 00:10:39.840 --> 00:10:42.879 do the ego work. We have to have a strong 212 00:10:43.039 --> 00:10:47.320 foundation of self in order to go deeper and do 213 00:10:47.399 --> 00:10:50.840 some more soul based, more spiritually based work. If we 214 00:10:50.960 --> 00:10:54.559 don't have a foundation of functioning, it's almost impossible to 215 00:10:54.600 --> 00:10:56.559 go beneath. Right. So if I have a client that 216 00:10:56.600 --> 00:10:59.200 comes in and they're like, I'm having panic attacks three 217 00:10:59.200 --> 00:11:01.559 times a week. I can barely get out of bed. Well, 218 00:11:01.559 --> 00:11:03.639 we have to address that first before I can start 219 00:11:03.720 --> 00:11:07.679 unraveling and going into like what is your soul longing for? Right? 220 00:11:07.799 --> 00:11:10.559 So it's important, but it's just that a lot of 221 00:11:10.600 --> 00:11:15.879 therapy stops there. A lot of therapy. Western psychology in particular, 222 00:11:16.200 --> 00:11:18.879 has really been established to say, how can I get 223 00:11:18.919 --> 00:11:23.399 you back up and functioning in the systems that, by 224 00:11:23.440 --> 00:11:25.320 the way, are the reason why you're not functioning to 225 00:11:25.320 --> 00:11:27.759 begin with? So how do I just get you right 226 00:11:27.840 --> 00:11:30.240 back out there to be a good little soldier right 227 00:11:30.519 --> 00:11:33.039 for capitalism, a good little soldier for Major Herkeey, a 228 00:11:33.039 --> 00:11:35.600 good little soldier. But it doesn't really go deeper than that. 229 00:11:36.159 --> 00:11:38.399 And so this is where I think the depth component 230 00:11:38.440 --> 00:11:41.000 comes in, because it's like, okay, cool, you can be functioning, 231 00:11:41.080 --> 00:11:42.080 but what else? 232 00:11:42.879 --> 00:11:48.840 So it's like exploring the unconscious of getting in there deeper. 233 00:11:49.080 --> 00:11:51.320 You got it? You got it? What is the unconscious 234 00:11:51.360 --> 00:11:56.759 actually attempting to say through symptom which again is a 235 00:11:56.840 --> 00:12:00.000 very different way of looking at symptoms. Usually Western psychology 236 00:12:00.159 --> 00:12:03.799 looks at symptoms as things that need to be fixed, right, solved. 237 00:12:04.320 --> 00:12:06.039 Take a pill, put a band aid on, it whatever 238 00:12:06.080 --> 00:12:09.600 that is. Dep psychology would actually say what is the symptom? 239 00:12:09.720 --> 00:12:13.840 Trying to say the symptom is actually here to communicate something, 240 00:12:13.919 --> 00:12:16.639 So rather than trying to squash it, we have to 241 00:12:16.720 --> 00:12:17.600 engage with it. 242 00:12:18.000 --> 00:12:19.840 I'm blown away. 243 00:12:19.279 --> 00:12:23.919 If you went to traditional therapy, let's just call it that, 244 00:12:24.919 --> 00:12:28.879 it's going so much deeper to try to like change 245 00:12:28.960 --> 00:12:34.320 the patterns and the subconscious. Do we even know half 246 00:12:34.360 --> 00:12:35.519 the time what it is? 247 00:12:36.559 --> 00:12:38.240 No? I think most of the time we don't. And 248 00:12:38.559 --> 00:12:40.840 again this is not to like poop poo traditional psychology, 249 00:12:40.840 --> 00:12:44.639 because it can be wildly effective and very helpful. Right. 250 00:12:44.720 --> 00:12:46.360 I just find that a lot of people come to 251 00:12:46.399 --> 00:12:50.360 me after they've already done therapy and they're like something 252 00:12:50.440 --> 00:12:53.679 is missing, like what else? Right? And then oftentimes where 253 00:12:53.720 --> 00:12:56.679 the conversations lead to once I kind of step in, 254 00:12:58.039 --> 00:13:06.840 is really this deeper misalignment that we're having again culturally, right, sociologically, 255 00:13:07.039 --> 00:13:10.279 because you can't separate the individual from the culture, and 256 00:13:10.320 --> 00:13:12.559 it starts to be more of an unpacking of like 257 00:13:12.720 --> 00:13:18.000 ancestral trauma for example, cultural trauma, social trauma, right, and 258 00:13:18.080 --> 00:13:21.679 these things that we it's not about again just slapping 259 00:13:21.720 --> 00:13:23.279 a band aid and side can get it. Back out there. 260 00:13:24.159 --> 00:13:26.919 It's about understanding that you live within a structure that's 261 00:13:26.919 --> 00:13:27.799 meant to keep you sick. 262 00:13:28.080 --> 00:13:31.399 Right, Okay, I'm sure I speak for a lot of 263 00:13:31.440 --> 00:13:34.679 women here. Do you know how many therapists I've started 264 00:13:34.720 --> 00:13:38.879 with and then like, after like six or you know, 265 00:13:39.000 --> 00:13:43.679 six or eight sessions, I'm like, I don't want someone 266 00:13:43.799 --> 00:13:47.639 to just some people need this, yeh, at different stages. 267 00:13:47.679 --> 00:13:49.960 But I don't want someone to just say, I understand, 268 00:13:50.000 --> 00:13:52.320 I hear you. This must be really hard, yes, what 269 00:13:52.720 --> 00:13:55.200 a terrible thing that you had to experience or whatever. 270 00:13:55.679 --> 00:13:59.360 I'm like, give me the knowledge I wantreat I want 271 00:13:59.399 --> 00:14:03.080 to solve, and I want someone to hold me accountable 272 00:14:03.559 --> 00:14:05.720 and problem solve. And I feel like a lot of 273 00:14:05.759 --> 00:14:09.480 at least the therapy that I've done, has been a 274 00:14:09.519 --> 00:14:16.279 lot of just understanding hearing me, which again maybe is important, 275 00:14:16.320 --> 00:14:18.600 but for me, I'm like, I want to get to 276 00:14:18.639 --> 00:14:20.320 the root of it because I don't want to keep 277 00:14:20.360 --> 00:14:21.919 repeating these same patterns. 278 00:14:22.279 --> 00:14:25.200 Well, I think you're actually touching on something, which is 279 00:14:25.200 --> 00:14:27.440 again it's not that that's not important, right, but it's 280 00:14:27.440 --> 00:14:30.879 like what else, And what I would argue is we 281 00:14:31.159 --> 00:14:35.440 are human beings are inherently meaning making creatures. So again, 282 00:14:35.519 --> 00:14:38.879 this is even this idea of the symptom as a story. 283 00:14:39.000 --> 00:14:41.759 It's it's there to tell us something. Right if I 284 00:14:41.919 --> 00:14:44.759 just say, that's really hard, I see your symptom, or here, 285 00:14:44.840 --> 00:14:46.919 let me give you some thought stopping techniques to stop 286 00:14:46.960 --> 00:14:51.919 the symptom. Right, your psyche that deeper layer, right, psyche 287 00:14:52.200 --> 00:14:56.879 means soul. Your psyche is not actually feeling heard in 288 00:14:56.919 --> 00:15:00.440 some essence, it's actually feeling dismissed because it's not you're 289 00:15:00.440 --> 00:15:02.480 not really listening to me by just saying, oh, I 290 00:15:02.519 --> 00:15:05.080 hear you, that sounds really hard. The psyche is saying no, 291 00:15:05.320 --> 00:15:08.519 help me understand, Help me make meaning of this, Help 292 00:15:08.559 --> 00:15:12.519 me make this bigger than just my individual suffering, because 293 00:15:12.519 --> 00:15:15.279 it is it always is. And so if a lot 294 00:15:15.320 --> 00:15:17.279 of therapists, again, I don't blame them, because I think 295 00:15:17.320 --> 00:15:18.759 this is actually a problem with a lot of the 296 00:15:19.279 --> 00:15:22.600 therapeutic kind of training and schooling that we get in 297 00:15:22.639 --> 00:15:26.320 the West. It stops there. You know, we're taught to 298 00:15:26.320 --> 00:15:30.200 be blank slates. We're taught not to give personal anecdotes. 299 00:15:30.200 --> 00:15:32.639 We're taught not to be too close with our clients. 300 00:15:32.639 --> 00:15:35.159 You know, we're taught to just be empathic and not 301 00:15:35.279 --> 00:15:39.840 give like tips or advice or whatever. And I understand 302 00:15:39.960 --> 00:15:42.120 kind of why that is, but I do think it's 303 00:15:42.440 --> 00:15:45.759 it leads to like a loss of humanity because if 304 00:15:45.759 --> 00:15:47.879 you're sitting in the room with your friend, you're not 305 00:15:47.919 --> 00:15:50.399 going to just be like, I'm really sorry, that sounds hard, 306 00:15:50.799 --> 00:15:52.399 and you're going to leave it at that. Right now, 307 00:15:52.440 --> 00:15:55.200 you might say, hey, do you want my advice? Do 308 00:15:55.240 --> 00:15:56.960 you want me to give you some feedback? Right, you 309 00:15:57.039 --> 00:15:59.120 might not, just let's not push it on them, But 310 00:15:59.159 --> 00:16:01.679 if they say yes, that's why I'm here, then like, okay, 311 00:16:01.840 --> 00:16:04.240 then that's why you're here. Let's have a real human 312 00:16:04.279 --> 00:16:05.200 to human conversation. 313 00:16:06.240 --> 00:16:09.840 This is a conversation probably that we could have a 314 00:16:09.879 --> 00:16:13.480 whole different conversation. For people that grew up with religion, 315 00:16:13.799 --> 00:16:17.120 soul is tied to religion and so that is the 316 00:16:17.159 --> 00:16:22.720 identity of it. But for those that didn't grow up 317 00:16:22.759 --> 00:16:25.240 in a religious background, or maybe have moved away from 318 00:16:25.240 --> 00:16:31.159 a religious background, soul can be a totally different path 319 00:16:32.080 --> 00:16:35.879 or maybe a different definition. Is that true than like 320 00:16:35.960 --> 00:16:39.159 what you have aligned it with with a religion. 321 00:16:39.600 --> 00:16:42.039 Sure well it has like connotation, right, it's got like 322 00:16:42.480 --> 00:16:44.559 the meaning is kind of connected in a different way. 323 00:16:45.120 --> 00:16:48.080 So Jung actually would say, I remember Jung was alive 324 00:16:48.120 --> 00:16:51.159 in the thirties and the forties, right, And Jung actually 325 00:16:51.200 --> 00:16:52.679 people don't A lot of people don't know this, but 326 00:16:52.759 --> 00:16:56.679 his father was actually a Baptist minister, and so he 327 00:16:56.840 --> 00:17:00.440 was brought up very Christian. However, he was also highly 328 00:17:00.480 --> 00:17:03.720 spiritual and was very well researched and kind of well 329 00:17:03.759 --> 00:17:06.319 involved in a lot of other spiritual communities all over 330 00:17:06.319 --> 00:17:09.119 the world. But Jung actually used to say that human 331 00:17:09.160 --> 00:17:14.160 beings are naturally we have a religious function of our psyche. 332 00:17:14.240 --> 00:17:17.200 Now here's where I would say, if Young were alive today, 333 00:17:17.400 --> 00:17:19.680 with our language today, I think he would call that 334 00:17:19.759 --> 00:17:23.119 a spiritual function of the psyche. I think that's just 335 00:17:23.480 --> 00:17:25.839 based on when he was around, and what he meant 336 00:17:25.920 --> 00:17:30.039 by that was, as beings, we are driven to make 337 00:17:30.200 --> 00:17:33.039 larger meaning, like I said, and to also be connected 338 00:17:33.079 --> 00:17:36.920 to and in relationship with something larger than ourselves. Right. 339 00:17:37.079 --> 00:17:41.119 This is why humans question things like why am I here? 340 00:17:41.519 --> 00:17:44.119 What's the purpose of all this? Right, it's because we 341 00:17:44.240 --> 00:17:48.839 have a function in our psyche that's actually devoted to spirit, 342 00:17:48.960 --> 00:17:53.400 spirituality larger you know, whatever that is, and we're in 343 00:17:53.519 --> 00:17:57.519 question all the time. So I think it's really that 344 00:17:57.640 --> 00:18:00.319 I think that the dogma and some of the the 345 00:18:00.440 --> 00:18:05.160 external structure that's put on those words by let's say religion, 346 00:18:05.880 --> 00:18:09.680 unfortunately take some of the real deep meaning out of it. 347 00:18:10.519 --> 00:18:13.319 Where when you hear somebody say soul or spirit right, 348 00:18:13.359 --> 00:18:17.079 it's more about like I remember, there's a twelve step saying. Actually, 349 00:18:17.119 --> 00:18:19.359 a friend of mine once said, a friend of hers 350 00:18:19.400 --> 00:18:22.160 struggled in twelve step because of the spiritual component, right, 351 00:18:22.640 --> 00:18:24.759 And the person who was leading the twelve step group said, 352 00:18:24.799 --> 00:18:28.519 totally cool. You can believe whatever you want right. However, 353 00:18:28.640 --> 00:18:30.519 what I want you to do tomorrow is I want 354 00:18:30.519 --> 00:18:32.799 you to go out into the ocean and I want 355 00:18:32.839 --> 00:18:35.279 you to stop the waves. That's what I want you 356 00:18:35.359 --> 00:18:37.559 to do. And then I want you to come back 357 00:18:37.559 --> 00:18:40.240 tomorrow and tell me that there's nothing greater than you 358 00:18:40.319 --> 00:18:44.839 out there. That's what I mean when I say spirituality, 359 00:18:45.039 --> 00:18:47.960 soul right. It doesn't have to be this idea that 360 00:18:48.000 --> 00:18:51.279 we've already got constructed. It can just mean I know 361 00:18:51.599 --> 00:18:56.519 that there is something energetically bigger than me, and I'm connected. 362 00:18:56.599 --> 00:18:59.640 So how many people? Then, I'm assuming you work with 363 00:19:00.559 --> 00:19:07.039 all sorts of ages, male and female. Do you see 364 00:19:07.240 --> 00:19:11.720 more of a population in midlife or is it kind 365 00:19:11.720 --> 00:19:13.359 of equal around the board. 366 00:19:13.599 --> 00:19:16.680 It is more midlife for sure. I think there's a 367 00:19:16.680 --> 00:19:19.079 point in our lives where we actually do start questioning 368 00:19:19.119 --> 00:19:22.279 these things, and we start waking up a little bit 369 00:19:22.319 --> 00:19:25.839 to kind of the spell of like the blueprints that 370 00:19:25.880 --> 00:19:27.680 we're all given, like this is what a good life 371 00:19:27.720 --> 00:19:30.960 looks like. Get the job, get the man, get the marriage, 372 00:19:31.000 --> 00:19:33.119 get the kid, get the car, get the dogs, you know, 373 00:19:33.480 --> 00:19:35.160 And there's this point where a lot of us wake 374 00:19:35.200 --> 00:19:37.400 up and look around and go, h, this ain't doing 375 00:19:37.480 --> 00:19:39.799 it right. It's not enough, Like I'm not fulfilled. I 376 00:19:39.839 --> 00:19:42.799 was promised fulfillment. I'm not. But I do also get 377 00:19:42.839 --> 00:19:45.319 a lot of people around that like quarter life crisis too, 378 00:19:45.720 --> 00:19:48.599 that are asking questions a lot younger, And I do 379 00:19:48.640 --> 00:19:52.039 think generationally people are asking these questions younger. 380 00:19:53.039 --> 00:19:57.519 Do you think that, like when someone starts questioning this, 381 00:19:58.640 --> 00:20:01.119 are there usually I've just seen this in my own 382 00:20:01.319 --> 00:20:03.240 This I could be a one off. I don't know, 383 00:20:03.720 --> 00:20:07.039 but do you think that there were signs? And there 384 00:20:07.119 --> 00:20:09.440 were like your body has been trying to tell you 385 00:20:09.480 --> 00:20:12.279 something for a long time, but you just it's easy 386 00:20:12.319 --> 00:20:14.960 to suppress and go on autopilot. And keep like, we're 387 00:20:15.000 --> 00:20:19.079 all busy, we're raising kids, we're trying to advance our careers. 388 00:20:20.160 --> 00:20:22.640 You know, it's easy to just be like they're there, 389 00:20:22.680 --> 00:20:23.680 I'll deal with this later. 390 00:20:24.240 --> 00:20:26.119 I mean, yeah, exactly. And that's why a lot of 391 00:20:26.160 --> 00:20:31.079 us it does take something big to actually wake us up. 392 00:20:31.160 --> 00:20:33.359 So oftentimes I will use this analogy we're all say. 393 00:20:34.119 --> 00:20:36.480 Frequently people come in there's the I call it the feather, 394 00:20:36.599 --> 00:20:41.279 the brick or the truck. So psyche soul, whatever word 395 00:20:41.319 --> 00:20:43.200 you want to use, is like tickling a feather for 396 00:20:43.240 --> 00:20:46.640 a long time, like hello, hellou, something's wrong, something doesn't 397 00:20:46.640 --> 00:20:49.480 fit whatever that is right, this relationship's not right for you, 398 00:20:49.559 --> 00:20:52.200 this job, whatever, and we just kind of, like you said, 399 00:20:52.480 --> 00:20:56.440 rush it off, whatever, keep being busy. Usually then psyche 400 00:20:56.440 --> 00:20:59.599 throws a brick. And even at the brick stage, most 401 00:20:59.599 --> 00:21:04.519